Guilt is one those emotions where if you don’t do something positive with it and/or gain some perspective, you end up persecuting yourself unnecessarily while your life begins to stagnate. Whether the guilt you’re experiencing is appropriate or misplaced, the fact that you feel guilty is actually an opportunity for you to change.
It’s important to remember though, that guilt is about feeling remorseful due to feeling responsible for an offence caused. As a result of my work I’m constantly coming across people who are struggling with guilt. What I find fascinating is that the people who need to feel less or no guilt experience excessive guilt while the people who could do with feeling genuine remorse and responsibility for their wrongdoings don’t.
You will know that you have a guilt issue if you tend be like high absorbency kitchen roll soaking up the blame in every situation and putting yourself at the centre of ‘everything’. You’ll know you do this if you have a One False Move Mentality and convince yourself that if you hadn’t done one thing, then everything else wouldn’t have happened. You’ll be like me who used to blame herself for her parents not being together…even though I was under three when they split up.
When you feel guilty all or a lot of the time, you’re rejecting you by taking on far too much blame which removes responsibility and greatly distorts your perspective. It’s like feeling so inadequate that you must be causing great offence – not true.
If there is something definable / tangible and contextually appropriate for you to feel at fault for, it is understandable to feel guilty.
This is the difference between…. feeling guilty because you got into a confrontation with someone and the conflict was the result of Yet Another Boundary Bust and you lost your temper and said some things that you regret… AND experiencing the exact same situation but feeling guilty not just for losing your temper and saying things that you regret, but also feeling guilty because you think that you have now done ‘everything’ or ‘most’ things to cause the relationship not to work. You stop seeing their part.
When you have done something that you in retrospect regret, if the situation calls for it, you can apologise / make amends or you just learn the lesson for next time.
I, for instance, learned from a series of situations where I pushed down my feelings and was passive and then ended up erupting in an angry tirade and looking batsh*t crazy was that if I stopped gritting my teeth, spoke up, and stopped busting my own boundaries, my experiences would change dramatically.
When you do the whole One False Move thing, you think that for example, your whole relationship or whatever situation imploded because you didn’t answer the phone on three rings, or you didn’t ask nicely enough, or you were ‘too confident’, or not patient enough, or wouldn’t ‘put out’.
There’s something you can learn here – if the things that you feel guilty about make you sound like you’ve been at the crack pipe or are things that other people expect as a part of treating themselves with love, care, trust, and respect, or are proud of, you definitely don’t need to be feeling guilty but you do need to get behind you.
Why the frick would you be feeling guilty about having a good job or earning really good money, or having friends or being talented? Do you seriously believe that not answering the phone quickly enough is a legitimate basis for guilt?
But you know, I couldn’t broach this subject without mentioning ‘superficial guilt’ and in some cases ‘borrowers remorse’.
You can’t keep saying that you feel guilty about, for example, an affair, if you’re not acting guilty and ending it. I’ve heard people say “I feel so guilty that I can’t give him/her what they want” or “I feel so guilty for treating them badly…” only to go back and do exactly the same or even worse.
That’s a problem because somewhere between the feedback of the guilt and actions, the mindset to support the actions to create a different outcome get lost.
Equally, what’s the point in doing something that you know runs totally counter to values that you profess to have but then only claiming to feel guilty when it becomes clear that the gamble you’ve taken hasn’t paid off? Prime example: It becomes clear that the person that you’re having an affair with isn’t leaving (there’s a surprise and a half) and you say “I feel so guilty about things. This was a bad thing for us to do. I think I should tell….” Er, NO. That ship has sailed and your guilt does not originate from an authentic place – you didn’t see fit to be telling them when you thought there was a chance of getting your way. It’s tough and trust me, I’ve been there, but sometimes we use guilt as an opportunity to unburden ourselves by passing it on. Afterwards we feel guilty for doing it which means being back to guilt square one.
Experiencing guilt is where you soon find out whether you’re a ‘doer’ or a talker or even a brooder. It will also show you whether you validate your own judgement or whether your tendency is to invalidate yourself.
When you process feedback such as guilt, you do something about it.
When you don’t process the feedback or you do, but in spite of recognising that the guilt is misplaced you hold onto it like a security blanket, you don’t act, nothing changes, and you can end up undermining you.
Guilt should force you to ask – What am I doing in this situation that is going against my values?
Or if the situation has passed – What can I and will I do differently next time?
Sometimes guilt doesn’t have a logical basis (like with the One False Move mentality) which is why you can feel a bit tormented when you can’t really see what you can do to relieve it, but you may just need to look at where the guilt is coming from. I hear from a lot of people who feel guilty about being pissed off (they don’t feel like they have a right to be angry and that anger is ‘bad’), or who feel guilty about having needs (they marginalise themselves and are used to neglect).
The solution in these situations isn’t to go back to a situation and go on mute and have no needs; it’s to address your feelings around anger, conflict, expressing your feelings, and also about why you have such low self-esteem that you feel guilty for having needs that others take as their right and as a basic?
That’s what guilt is there for – to remind us of who we are and our values, or to even show where we’re taking on too much blame and need to adjust our perspective. Guilt is not there as a paddle to whack yourself with and if you keep revisiting the guilt but not doing anything about it, you’ll end up obsessing which is a dangerous cocktail of blame, shame, and regret where you end up living in the past and trying to work out what you could have or can ‘prevent’ and then often doing things off the back of this rumination that only compounds your guilt.
Use guilt to direct you to where you can learn more about you instead of using it as a shield to prevent action while you keep looking to the past and wanting to fix that, instead of looking at where you are now and learning from the insights gained so that you can apply them to your present and future. Acknowledge, learn, and move on.
Your thoughts?
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Absolutely all of this post, but especially this:
“What I find fascinating is that the people who need to feel less or no guilt experience excessive guilt while the people who could do with feeling genuine remorse and responsibility for their wrongdoings don’t.”
I dealt with excessive guilt; and the only reflection my ex would do involves preening himself in the mirror.
Despite his lies, cheating and verbal abuse, he explicitly stated that all our issues in our relationship were down to me. Not only did I absorb it, I sought out a therapist to help me to deal with ‘my problems’ – and what did he do? Well, he took a big dump all over the idea of therapy, all the while, hitting on some of our co-workers behind my back.
He’s no longer part of my life (20 days of No Contact and counting!) my therapist still is 🙂
Thanks for all the work you’ve done on this site, Natalie, I think you’ve helped so many people, myself included.
Congratulations on 20 days of NC Cheese Sandwich. Stick with you,your therapist, and Natlie/BR. One back in the day former abusive ex laid the blame for everything at my feet and I soaked it up like a Bounty paper towel. He forced me into therapy (bless his narcissistic soul) so I could learn to accept his abuse because it was really love. Yeah, Mr. Therapist saw through that pretty quickly. After 60 days, Mr. Abusive was toast. I felt guilty dumping the toad but trusted this stranger therapist more than I trusted me (at the time) and more than I trusted the rat bastard. Boy do AC’s hate therapy. Mr. Abusive probably still woes the day he forced me into therapy.
Love your name. I’m going to make me a Cheese Sandwich! Natalie totally rocks.
Thank you!
Yep, they sure hate therapy. I think with my ex it’s a mix of being terrified of what’s underneath that rock and the fact that he just hasn’t got the emotional capability for a bit of introspection.
We’re both better off without!
Nope they wouldn’t dare look under that rock. It would scare the pants off them. That’s why we need to deal with this guilt thing and flush. The best thing I ever did was flush the abusive ex. Before I found BR, I was under the misguided impression that I still had to be “friends” with exAC’s, particularly if we work together. Some guilt, karma crap or something Nope. We ran into one another today at the xerox machine and there wasn’t a word. I didn’t feel the least bit of guilt. I did feel like a cheese sandwich, however.
Cheese sandwiches are far greater than AC men.
I also was under the impression that a friendship could work with ex-AC men long before I found BR. This is one of the most difficult break-ups I’ve gone through but as I’m doing NC it makes it so much easier to deal with. I think he has got the message that I won’t be contacting him again but the fool is led by his ego so I’m sure I haven’t heard the last from him
Hey Cheese Sandwich, the exMM was like a cockroach after a nuclear bomb…Nat’s description. After many, many attempts at NC, he resorted to snail mail as recently as May (a clever “birthday gift”). Based on my ego and my guilt, my dreamer hope, and my need for his validation, I left the door open. I think I finally got my ego and my head/feet planted in reality. I didn’t respond to his clever birthday gift. I finally shut the door. I was as big a fool as he was. So my point, don’t let your ego/guilt/need for validation get in the way. Shut the door.
Cheese sandwiches are far more comforting than these AC’s.
WOOHOOO! 20 days! It starts to get better now (well, a few downs every now and then…but generally lots of ups!).
What a looser, talking about you working hard at therapy. Only someone who has no connection with his emotions, his reactions and the impact he has says sh*t like that.
Good job, keep at it. Rubbish he was.
Thank you. I’m not that far out of the break up so it still feels a bit raw sometimes, but I’m going easy on myself 🙂
You’re right in that he’s totally disconnected from his emotions. Something happens, and he reacts – no thought in between. He once told me that the concept of self-love is a load of tosh and that he couldn’t think of anything to love about himself. I can certainly agree with him on the latter.
Was so happy I opened my email and found this. After having broken up with my ex-AC over a year ago and ignoring the majority of his attempts to contact me over the course of the year, I answered an email today (acknowledging that I am doing well). I received an email back inviting me to have a drink with him to celebrate my birthday. And here is the kicker …. For the past 6 months he has thought I was involved with someone (I’m not) and has been fishing around trying to confirm and he invited my ghost boyfriend to join us for the drink. WHAT? I don’t want to reply back but I feel guilty that I will hurt his feelings, as I initially did answer him. I could kick myself in the pants for feeling this way because this was a man who gave me nothing, repeatedly ignored me, disappeared for weeks, bolted out the door right after we had sex, messed so much with my head that I began drinking heavily (over the last year I have stopped completely, thank you God). I feel my only option is to send him a “no thanks, involved with someone else” email to put my guilt to rest, but I am sure this is just what he wants. Do you think I should just ignore and not reply back. I just don’t know which end is up right now but I do know I won’t take a drink (worked too hard to get that one off my back thanks to this AC).
You know what I would do? I would thank him for the invitation, but decline giving no reason at all. It’s none of his business for one thing if you’re dating someone or not; he let that one go a long time ago with his AC disrespectful behavior. And no explanation is needed as you no longer need his BS, you are your own woman.
This will shut him up and..keep him guessing as well as let him know the door is no longer open for him.
And kudos to you for your sobriety, that’s awesome! Few things in life take that much determination-
Hey Finally Did It,
You’ve done it! Although I know it’s tough and easier said than done, I wouldn’t respond even to say no thanks. I think you are doing what Natalie is pointing out in this article regarding feeling guilty for not replying. Hurt HIS feelings? Hello girl. I don’t think there is a logical basis as Nat points out. Is it a case of superficial guilt and/or borrower’s remorse? I’d just chalk up responding to his email as a small mistake and keep moving forward. BTW, can you even begin to list all the emails, calls, etc, he failed to respond too? Don’t let him attempt to alleviate his guilt (assuming he may feel guilty) for treating you in a less than manner by buying you even a soda. Celebrate your B-day with family and friends who care about you. Or celebrate it alone because you care about you. He didn’t, right? You know what end is up!
You owe him nothing. He’s ‘fishing’. Maybe he’s between GFs, maybe he’s bored, lonely, nostalgic…whatevuh…
These men who come back, don’t, I think really WANT to get back together, they just want to see if they still have some level of control over you since they might not have any control over their own lives. When my ex AC/EUM came crawling back after 9 months NC, he was shocked and angry that I wasn’t interested. Not only was I not interested, I was PISSED OFF. How dare he try to insert himself back in my life when he treated me like shit and knew full well he was doing it (and got off on it in a sick way).
Again, you owe this guy nothing. DO NOT feel guilt. Anyone who treats you poorly deserves to be ignored.
Don’t reply! Why give him a second chance when there are great guys out there waiting for the first one? (;
FinallyDidIt,
Ignore him. Period. Continue moving ahead and DO NOT look back.
<>
Dear Finally did it! Don’t do it, don’t reply to this moron president of the AC clubs email bout meeting up with him. You said yourself he gave you nothing, he is fishing to see if their is still a crumb there for him. You have come such a long way and you must know that to engage with him again will only undo it all. He invites your new ‘ghost’ boyfriend…..he is a joke. He is testing the water and may know that there is no boyfriend as who does that. What guy, who must know that he treated you like crap, thinks that you will want to share his company with a new boyfriend. He is again playing games and messing with your head. You have NOTHING to feel guilty for, he does not deserve a reply. If you do, it gives him a foot in the door again to keep fishing. Tell him nothing,this will be a shock to his system and to let him know your life is none of his business any more.
Don’t do it. Don’t answer him. Believe me it’s a slippery slope if you do…
This post really spoke to me. I joke how although I was raised Catholic and went to Sunday School and everything, and I try to be a good person, I’m not very religious, or at least not specifically “Catholic” except for the guilt! Lol. It’s in my nature to feel guilty – about everything.
Like you I had been dating this guy who in many ways didn’t treat me very well…One of the worst incidences happened when during a conversation, when we’d been dating over a year, I asked him how he suddenly had $80,000 dollars cash to put down a house when he was always crying poverty and always trying to get me to give him money (I NEVER did though. Luckily that’s one boundary I have firmly in place). When I asked him he told me to “go fuck myself” and then hung up on me. That should have been it right there, but I sent him a text asking him to never talk to me that way again, because I would never do that to him and he really hurt my feelings. This was at 11PM, but I was so shaken up and upset by what he said that I took Advil PM to help me sleep. After my text he called me right back and said he wanted to see me and talk to me at his place. NOW. I told him I couldn’t leave because I had just taken something to sleep, and was in no shape to drive to his place, talk to him, and then drive back. He didn’t want to come to my place, but still kept pushing me, saying “you’ll be fine. It’s only a 10 minute drive. You can just stay over here.” At that point, I just wasn’t strong enough to say no, I felt GUILTY. and DROVE to his house before the medicine kicked in. When I got there he was watching porn on his laptop. He pointed and said “look, she’s not giving him crap; she’s just doing what he wants.” I told him “uh, hello.” it’s a porn, not the real world! He didn’t really want me to come over so we could and talk it over and make up. He just wanted the “make up sex”. We had sex. Then he said “oh, I have to get up early tomorrow, you should go.” At that point I would have just left in disgust, but then I REALLY started feeling the effects of the Advil PM and told him I didn’t feel comfortable driving, and reminded him that part of why I agreed to come over is because he was the one who offered to let me stay over. I told him that if he changed his mind I was willing to sleep downstairs on his couch, because I didn’t feel safe on the road, but he was having none of it. At that moment I felt the best thing I could do was just to try to get home as quickly while driving as carefully as possible. Luckily, I was able to stay awake enough to get home in one piece, but I was so PISSED – at him, and at myself for letting someone treat me so badly, and allowing myself to be put in such a position. – because of GUILT I let myself be manipulated into making horrible irresponsible choices, that could have hurt or killed me or an innocent stranger.
Just don’t go there. It’s not worth it.
phoenix
What a despicable way to treat another human being! I don’t know how you didn’t slap him in the face (or somewhere even more tender). I hope you got over that guilt, realized HE should feel guilty, and kept on driving – right out of his life!
Phoenix,
I really feel for you. This man, if you can call him that is a selfish scumbag. The way he has treated you is absolutely disgusting. The AC I used to see, on & off is really selfish as well. Everything was just about him and what he wanted/needed & did not treat me well either. Whenever we engaged in sexual behaviour, very rarely my needs got met & once he was satisfied, he would make excuses to hurry home; e.g. oh my back’s gone, I’ve got a belly ache, frozen shoulder etc. On a weekend away together, soon after we had sex, & his needs got met. He turned around & said, we ought to get dressed now, & go down the pub to watch the FA Cup Final. Although I love football, it’s unfair that I met his needs, & I hardly got my needs met. I wanted to cuddle up after and although we cuddled up, it was only 5 to 10 minutes. After we came back, he started playing a pushy/pully & fading away game. He reneged on 3 dates. I wanted to meet up with him to finish with him face to face, cos he started to downgrade us; but he denied me that by reneging on the dates. 4 weeks after our weekend away, we were supposed to meet up & when I phoned to check if we were still meeting up, cos he had reneged on the 2 previous dates. He didn’t answer. I realised then he was disappearing/going dark on me. I tried phoning again 3 weeks later to get closure, no answer, but he texts “I’m really busy” I inboxed him on FB a couple of weeks or so after to get my point across how disrespectful he was to go dark on me & he responded with he’s suffering from heavy depression & needed to be alone. He used depression as an excuse to make me feel guilty for contacting him. He then blocked me 3 days later. I’m now been doing NC for over 5 weeks.
FinallyDidIt,
Just ignore him. Why are you concerned with his feelings? You don’t owe him anything, and his world isn’t going to end because you failed to reply to his stupid suggestion.
Read Nat’s post and your own post one more time: ” this was a man who gave me nothing, repeatedly ignored me, disappeared for weeks, bolted out the door right after we had sex, messed so much with my head that I began drinking heavily…”
FinallyDidIt, you wrote “…this was a man who gave me nothing, repeatedly ignored me, disappeared for weeks, bolted out the door right after we had sex, messed so much with my head that I began drinking heavily…”
If this is true, how on earth could your mind form the thought “I don’t want to reply back but I feel guilty that I will hurt his feelings, as I initially did answer him.”
Did he feel guilty about hurting your feelings when he was an AC or now when he is disrespecting your wishes to be left alone? Pffft! I would recommend you ignore his chancing his arm for an ego stroke but, if you must, “No thank you.” With no mention of your anything about your life life/imaginary bf is enough and more than he deserves! Good luck.
Agree – dont bother with telling him about your life and dont create an imaginary bf. Why should you tell him anything at all.
I would just ignore, even a “no thanks” might lead to some other email conversation.
Like you said – He gave you nothing, you owe him nothing. Nada. Zilch. Total flush.
Ps. Good on you for all the hard work you have been doing!
Finally, I am hoping you will not reply at all. Assclowns should not get the time of day after we wake up and let them go.
Nat, another good post, a great topic. Another thing about guilt; it can be wielded as a weapon. A weapon we can impose on others because of severe anger or resentment toward that person. Especially a controlling weapon used to get what we want, or to punish. I’ve seen it done to a friend by his spouse; the result is that he takes on all responsibility for everything that happens in the relationship while she gets her arse kissed -but she can’t be a happy woman underneath. It’s screwed him up as well as her.
Sometimes I think guilt is like smoking, or eating meat. If you are used to having no cigarettes, or no meat, in your life, even a little taste of one of these will be a big event, and cause an appropriate reaction. But if you’re used to meat everyday, or smokes every day, a new encounter with these things doesn’t even register after a while.
I am very familiar with feeling guilty having no relationship to doing anything about it. A common scenario for me has been: “Oh, I should do x,” never doing it or only doing it half-heartedly, then feeling guilty and shameful for my ineffectual behaviour and for basically talking out my bum about what I will/should/want to do.
“Guilt is not there as a paddle to whack yourself with and if you keep revisiting the guilt but not doing anything about it, you’ll end up obsessing . . .”
Yes, very familiar with that! For my part, doing whatever it is I’ve been whacking myself about never stopped the self-whacking, I’d just move the bar and keep whacking. And then eventually I’d stop doing the good thing because I just turned it into a never-good-enough endeavour.
I’ve had to learn to lay off the guilt trips and self-flagellation *despite* not doing whatever it is I’m on my own case about. Because, finally, I realized the larger issue was never about me being mad at myself for not doing X, or Y, it was about only knowing one way to try to motivate (control) my own actions, through fear. It’s a habit I still work to kick.
My first instinct is always to scare myself with all the terrible things that could happen if I don’t work harder/do better/change. It’s kind of twisted, actually. It means I’m always working to avoid letting myself down (i.e. avoid guilt and shame) rather than working for pleasure, contentment, and fulfilment.
“Experiencing guilt is where you soon find out whether you’re a ‘doer’ or a talker or even a brooder. It will also show you whether you validate your own judgement or whether your tendency is to invalidate yourself.”
Thanks for the clarity!
Magnolia, I have taken the words “should” and “shame” out of my vocabulary. If I even think them, I push them aside. It does help. I used to should all over the place and was the world’s worst at guilting myself.
“A common scenario for me has been: “Oh, I should do x,” never doing it or only doing it half-heartedly, then feeling guilty and shameful for my ineffectual behaviour and for basically talking out my bum about what I will/should/want to do.”
Mags, I’ve done it too. I’ve used scare tactics on myself as well and, yes, it’s no way to live life to the fullest. Aren’t you glad we decided to (a) get real and (b) enjoy life instead?! Hope the new job and new town are treating you well lady! 🙂
FinallyDidIt: Please don’t reply out of “guilt”. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Was he concerned about your feelings? IS he concerned about your feelings now? How bizarre to invite you and your BF for a drink! Sorry, I don’t know you or him…but let him think you’re happily hooked up. Cuz take it from me: if you let him back in, it’s more of the same crazy bullshit. He only cares about getting your attention. To what end? Ignore, ignore, ignore!!
Oh, this could not have come at a better time! Recently I decided to end a friendship with an old friend from college and I’ve been struggling with a lot of guilt over it. Basically, this chick got her kicks out of bossing me around and telling me everything that’s wrong with my life and what I need to do to “fix it”. I kept expecting things to improve, but…then she got married. While I’m very happy for her, her obnoxious-ness increased by approximately 2000.76%.
Here was the final straw (from a whole barn’s worth of hay and bullsh*t accumulated over the years): This is my crazy-busy season at work and I just could not take being yelled at (literally) over the fact that there were some things I couldn’t do because I have to work. Some of the things I couldn’t attend were not even “her” events, but friends of hers that I became friendly with as well. She then informed me that I needed to get a new job and actually said “Anything will do!” Ummmmmm, yes, I should quit my job and take my chances in a sh*t economy to avoid pissing off anyone else. Mind you, I’d been pulling away from these other women after I’d had a major health scare (everything turned out fine, thankfully) and didn’t get so much as a text from any of them. Yes, these women are the people I should leave my job to accomodate.
At first, I was so busy being arse-deep in guilt over ending a friendship that I actually thought, “Well, maybe if I had an easier life, (less work, nice husband, no health problems, etc.) she’d be nicer to me.” Errrr, no. The one thing I do feel guilty about and, Nat is right, it IS a great way to learn from mistakes, is that I didn’t get direct about ending the friendship until basically forced to. Passive aggression alert! I’ll take my guilt the fun way – aka, via dessert – from now on 🙂
What an awful pal…that comment about quitting your job really made me angry. I would be half tempted to tell her that she is a bossy narcissist and she needs to get a life and a therapist but you probably took the high road.
Don’t feel guilty about getting her out of your life please…you are enabling her self absorbed nature by being there.Oh maybe you could tell her that, that this is an act of kindness to help her self reflect and better herself tee hee…;)
“Oh maybe you could tell her that, that this is an act of kindness to help her self reflect and better herself tee hee…;)”
That was SO awesome!! It really is amazing what a weight off the shoulders it is to bounce people like this – the last time I felt so liberated was when I bounced My Final Assclown for good haha! Thank you for cracking me up and, rest assured, I will leave her to be a voluntary life coach for everyone else that cannot, nay, WILL NOT function without her infinite wisdom 😉
It’s been forever since I’ve written a comment on this site! But I’ve been reading as religiously as one could! Love, Love, Love this Post! Hits home. This past year I’ve been seeking theraphy and living in guilt for losing my temper and telling him “all about him”- last year. But as your article mentions- I did this after boundaries were busted, and I was treated without care and respect and SOOO I snapped. First time ever. But Bhoy did I snap! Anyways, I did the right thing and apologized as dipolomatically and tactfully as I could in person- and I did my part. I’m No Contact now- but this year has been all about dealing with guilt. This article really helped put things into perspective. People who really shouldn’t be feeling guilty usually do- and those who owe an apology and should be feeling guilty don’t. Thus is life. Forgive yourself is a lesson I’m learning!
Ok Natalie, I am guilty of feeling a LOT of guilt! Going back to my childhood being the oldest child in a dysfunctional family, I took the blame for a LOT.
And now that I’m an adult, and working on becoming a person with strong values and integrity, I *still* have a problem with guilt. I feel guilty that I don’t communicate with my parents much (even though it’s a 2-way street), I feel guilty that I let so much slide at work over the last 3 years during my stint in the alternate OW universe (and my colleagues had to pick up the slack, even though they say they didn’t notice I was distracted). I feel guilty for taking the exMM’s time away from his wife and son and original OW, for goodness sakes. I feel guilty for neglecting my own family and friends while I was involved with him.
After 8 weeks of NC, I thought I was getting my feelings under control, and starting to find some self-forgiveness. But then the exMM emailed me this morning about a work-related topic – he needs my input about something. He also included a link to some scenic pictures he took during his family vacation in July.
It disturbed me to get this email (just a little though). I could easily give him the work feedback, but I have hesitated to answer. It was inappropriate to include the personal pictures I think. Or maybe I am being unreasonable? Anyway, I will wait till tomorrow to answer. That may be a passive-aggressive strategy on my part, but for some reason, I don’t want him to think I am still at his beck and call.
I *know* I should have just answered the work portion and ignored the personal photos. I am ashamed to admit that curiosity got the best of me, and I did look at the photos. And I feel guilty about that, too! He has a great eye for photography – it is amazing that such beautiful images could be captured by such am amoral man!
Bottom line? Now I even feel guilty for not answering his email right away!
OK, I am getting that I need to do something constructive with this guilt. Maybe sleeping on it will help.
Does he HAVE to have your input? Will you lose your job if you don’t reply? I would think it was passive aggressive on his part. Ignore the email. You won’t go to hell for looking at the pictures, though you may be “knocked off balance” for it. Keep working on you! You are doing soooo good!!!
lo j
I would not be fired by not responding, but I *did* tell the ex cheating cheater that he could contact me only for work purposes. Since this was work related, I did end up responding. He replied immediately, saying he appreciated and valued my input. A few months ago, I would have been flattered to hear those words. Now, they seem empty somehow. Getting back to working on me now – thanks lo j 🙂
Hi, look, you are being straight up manipulated by this guy. This is a classic passive aggressive move ex’s use to get back their previous partners: by sending them supposedly neutral questions and conveniently adding photographs from his recent trip to entice you. This is what manipulators do. Don’t even play into that kind of stuff, it is only going to mess with your mind.
ACaddict
Yeah, it did feel a bit like he was trying to rope me back in with those photos, in a very sneaky kind of a way. I didn’t tell him I looked at the vacation pictures, just gave him the work feedback he wanted. He will likely send the final version of the document he is working on, then I won’t have to interact with him for work for months. And I don’t have to interact with him for social reasons because we are *done* with the relationshit and I am NC with him. Thanks for your interpretation of his pathetic actions.
Hey Natalie,
I loved this article. As a former OW,I felt so guilty and the feeling manifest as batsh*t crazy angry outbursts. Then, I’d feel guilty for the batsh*t crazy angry outbursts, he’d “forgive” me, and around and around we’d go. I was seriously hooked on a deadly cocktail of guilt, anger, shame, and blame. Geez, I did have a right to feel pissed off. Things were so twisted in my mind, rather than opt out, I thought I could fix it by being the perfect OW or getting spitting angry. Neither worked, thank god. I have a lot of work to do around my guilty feelings in other areas as well. I really like the positive suggestion of using the feeling to acknowledge where I am now, learning from the insights gained, and applying them to my present and future. How uplifting, comforting, and truly motivating. I’ve been drowning in this deadly guilt-ridden cocktail in another area of my life and you helped me see I am stuck again in the same pattern, although the current situation doesn’t involve a guy. Guilt can feel like quicksand. The harder you struggle, the deeper you sink because I can’t fix the past. But I can change the present and the future. OH,I got it…how exciting. Thank you. This guilt stuff is really tricky business because before I realize it, I’m already drowning. Now I’ll be more attuned to that feeling of drowning in quicksand.
runnergirl
Loved the quicksand analogy. If we stop struggling, just be still and accept the past and all its lessons, we will stop sinking and provide ourselves with a more solid present and future. Brilliant!
I am so glad that this was posted. I am feeling a lot of misplaced guilt right now, after visiting my dad back east. I went to see him, because he is 86 and I am just so regreting the wasted flight and all that money to be treated horribly. He was just such an abusive jerk that I almost don’t want to speak with him again, and I stopped speaking with him about 20 years ago, for 8 years, so this is saying a lot ( from 26-34)
He spent the bulk of the time that I was there being just awful-yelling at me, telling at me to “shut up” and even pushing me- but because he is in the first stage of dementia, everyone was saying that I had to take that into consideration. But I could not help but notice how the mistreatment stopped when my brother was there ( he never got mistreated, past and present) and when anyone was there who he basically worries about, in terms of their opinion. He was perfectly able to control himself unless he was alone with me. He also remembers a lot more than you would think for someone who is supposedly demented. I was so so angry I just left and went to stay in a hotel, but what gets me so upset is that he is EXACTLY like he was when I was a child, now. He just has reverted to the really mean, intentionally vindicitive person that he was all my childhood.
So I feel torn; that trip just tore off all the wounds that had been somewhat healed; I have not called him since, it has been two weeks…why do I feel guilty? I know that this is awful to say but I almost wish that he would just die; nothing is ever going to change, it will just get worse, and I am sick of trying to think well of him and feeling obligated to try to forgive him, He doesn’t care, he probably never did, and I just don’t want to have him in my life anymore. But stupidly, I reinitiated him being back in my life years ago and now my brother and sister-in-law expect me to be there for him. I just feel so….bizarrely guilty for not wanting to speak with him anymore. grrr..sorry for the rant.
Dancingqueen, guilt about our cantankerous parents being cantankerous is not unusual. I think what you can learn from this is that you’re still vulnerable to being hurt by your father in the same way and that you’re still taking his horrid behaviour as a reflection of you.
Let me tell you something – this summer I’ve had to read a hell of a lot of stories of unkind parents due to the self-esteem course on Baggage Reclaim School and if there is one thing I know for sure, it’s that these parents often behave the worst and continue to behave the worst with the people with whom they privately feel the most guilt / angst / envy etc about.
After the way your father has behaved and how he is now, you being nice to him and seeing him in this state must be quite a conscience kick. His behaviour is certainly pushing you away. He may have dementia but I don’t think it stops him from sensing and recognising who you are and what he’s been – he must feel quite embarrassed and even ashamed that you’re seeing him in a ‘bad’ or even ‘weak’ position and then tries to make up for that with his unpleasantness. There’s a message in here – stop seeking your fathers approval, stop trying to be nice in the face of assholery and recognise your father for the weak, bullyish and frail man that he is. It doesn’t mean that you need to be mean to him but stop doing proverbial cartwheels for him. I wouldn’t call – what difference would it make?
Go not out of duty and an expectation that he might be struck by conscience lightening; go to visit him because it is what you want to do and you recognise him for what he is. Keep it short, don’t stay by him and every single time he is rude, leave.
Stop feeling guilty about it – your siblings etc don’t have the same experiences as you. Don’t explain, don’t justify and start working on healing your old wounds so that they cannot be opened for salt application.
Thank you Nat, even though you were replying to Dancingqueen.
The part that particularly struck me was “…if there is one thing I know for sure, it’s that these parents often behave the worst and continue to behave the worst with the people with whom they privately feel the most guilt / angst / envy etc about”.
It explains so very much to me. As the eldest child in my family, I never stopped trying to please and I never stopped failing to please and could not understand it. Despite the vicious treatment growing up, I have outperformed and given more back to my parents and siblings than any of us. (cue “not good enough” issues, anyone?)
In hindsight, my mother in particular has always set herself up in competition with me and her feelings have been ambivalent at best. She seemed to never know in the past whether to be proud or to resent me when I accomplished anything. I now have no relationship with her as it became impossible for me to have any healthy boundaries with her.
One of the scariest moments in my life was waking up one day and realising that I had married not my father but my mother. Never happy and never satisfied. No wonder I was never good enough (and continue to be never good enough) for her.
Such negative parenting really sets us up, if we’re not careful, to put ourselves with partners who are never satisfied and just reinforce the belief we still battle to rid ourselves of – that we are not good enough.
Natalie, I always learn so much when you respond to childhood trauma issues. Sometimes I have momentary bouts of guilt about going NC with my father way before I knew what NC was. Then I read something on BR which reaffirms my gut..so thank you. DQ, it really is the case that our siblings do not have the same experience as we do/did. That was difficult for me to accept. Only one of my siblings still struggles with my decision. Once my father hits the dementia stage, I’ll probably go to visit because it will be what I want to do. I won’t do it out of guilt. It will be short. Such a wonderful response Natalie. No more cartwheels for any guy, dads included.
dancing
I have the “benefit” of my parents being equally horrid/neglectful to all four of us. However, what NML says gives me food for thought. Because I was the eldest my parents heaped a ton of responsibility/blame onto me, including my siblings’ alleged misdeeds. I wasn’t even 11 when they started doing that.It’s taken me years to shake off feeling responsible for things that have nothing to do with me. Or if they do, I am certainly not solely responsible.That may be why out of the four of us I’m the one who had the depressions, the really crap relationships, the numerous therapists. People and kids are different. If you have a child who is sensitive and quiet, do you nurture them a bit more or do you heap burning coals on their head? I have five nieces, one of them can take a joke, her younger sister really can’t. It doesn’t mean that either of them is “wrong” and we take into account their personalities when dealing with them (within the boundaries of respect of course).
Although I have largely forgiven my parents, it’s because a) I see a change in them b) they are not in a position to harm me anymore. My mother (the violent one) can no longer raise a hand to anyone. If I thought she was going to push me around I really would have to keep my distance in case I pushed her back.c) I stopped telling myself I HAD to forgive them and d) I got happy.
For your benefit, not for his, if you feel able to see your father or speak to him for short periods in a safe environment, then do so – on your terms. Otherwise, shelve it and get on with your life.
@ Nathalie and Grace: thanks both for your wisdom and insight. I don’t know what I would do without the advice here sometimes.
@ Nathalie, This below was a revelation: I never thought about this but it just felt so right when you wrote it: of course he never gets mad at my brother, he never was a jerk to him so seeing him makes him feel proud and competent.
“He may have dementia but I don’t think it stops him from sensing and recognising who you are and what he’s been – he must feel quite embarrassed and even ashamed that you’re seeing him in a ‘bad’ or even ‘weak’ position and then tries to make up for that with his unpleasantness.”
And both, thanks for the “permission” for lack of a better word, to not call and not visit unless I want to…can’t say that it will be happening unless I feel the need to take a personal vacation to Boston and slip a few hours in with him.
This was a learning experience, I had no idea that he was still capable of upsetting me and now that he has, I will honor my feelings and not make it look perfect for everyone else. It had been the right decision to let him back in my life, years ago, because he was acting better but now he is not and I need to just accept that, and not engage if that is what gives me peace. Thanks!
OMG, this is such an uncanny coincidence.
Reading the comments, I suddenly went through why I feel so tremendously guilty. It turned out that my dad died in a nursing home after a month of being sent there.
I remember is sad face when I left him there. How lost he looked. I was exhausted from taking care of him. I felt guilty he gave me money, many times, and helped me out financially, and I couldn’t even take care of him. This was, of course, underlined by my family.
Dancing Queen, I could have written what you did write. I put 6000 miles between us, because he was extremely toxic, I would spend 6 months not talking to him, but would feel guilty or thought he would have changed.
My brother was stealing his pension while my dad was in the hospital, he stole from me as well, still everyone thought he was taking such good care of the house and my dad (he took care of him for 3 weeks when I moved back home from Canada, forced to take care of my dad because my brother bailed out when I outed his stealing officially ), and to this day, people think that I should allow him back into my life and forgive.
My dad suffered from dementia as well, pushed me, shoved me, insulted me and belittled me in front of people, stating I was a loser and good for nothing. He even said I was a bitter spinster, when I had told him in confidence that I thought I would never find anyone and felt so wrecked about it. Everything you mentioned, Dancing Queen,rings an emotional bell.
However, to add a positive twist, I was EXTREMELY blessed that my dad told me he loved me and I was a wonderful daughter the day before he passed away. I feel so guilty I let him in that place, I lived 4 hours away and didn’t have a car to visit, I didn’t want to stay over in that area, and stalled on going to visit him.
He had family in that area so he did see someone one a week or every 2 weeks, but it was so rotten for him to be so far away from his roots. I didn’t realise that, or didn’t want to, and that pain inflicted on this poor man hurts me so much to this day.
I wanted to get rid of him and breathe. I didn’t want to sacrifice my life and be his caretaker.
Nevertheless, I was lucky to get some closure. He told me I was an exceptional woman, kind daughter, and that I took really good care of him. Also, during some phases of the dementia, he reverted to a child and acted happy and excited. For the first time in his life he didn’t let his mind ruin his happiness.
I hope the same happens to you Dancing Queen, and that you find some closure, some peace. I know how bad it hurts when you feel your wounds are open again. Some people don’t know how to love and are incapable of giving us the love we deserve. The hard part is recognising we are not the problem.Best of luck to you.
Thanks dancingqueen for posting this and for everyone’s replies. Your post struck a chord with me, dq, and it helps so much to read about an issue I struggle with at a moment when I’m not the one posting about it in distress. I recognize your distress and your sense of guilt.
I recently spent some time at home and got to see my father “revert” to his old ways when he dealt with my cousin’s child – I hope that for you, as for me, such a present-day glimpse of that old bullying behaviour helps you validate your own experience. Suddenly my father seemed so personally weak, to bully a child like that, and I saw him, from my adult perspective, very differently. Your father sounds just as emotionally insecure and willing to take it out on you.
If your fortune is such that you one day get the kind words that Rave has, that’s great, but you will figure out for yourself how to bring closure. My dad has had moments of remorse and has said kind things, and while that does help, the deeply-bred emotional habits in my body and mind did not vanish with his apology. I still often felt very angry that I had emotional struggles for which I still held him responsible, I still often find his behaviour a big trigger, and I still sometimes mourn (though less and less with time) the relationship I wish we had.
NML and grace are good role models: they have come to peace with their real situations, and unloaded any guilt; they haven’t magically created that wished-for, but in fact impossible, transformation of the past.
Magnolia,
I feel you with the parental apology not erasing the emotional pain. I think my dad is oblivious to his continued hurtful ways. I guess we (you, me, dancingqueen, Berniegirl, Rave and many others on BR)can only try to do as NML and grace have done, after letting go of our parents’ continued power over our emotions. If only there was an easy way!
Thanks Rave and Magnolia for the kind words. They made me cry. Magnolia I think you hit it on the head when you said this
“I still often felt very angry that I had emotional struggles for which I still held him responsible, I still often find his behaviour a big trigger, and I still sometimes mourn (though less and less with time) the relationship I wish we had.”
Yes, it is like, in some way, being hurt by seeing what you wished for, die. Like a dream that meant so much and it just..I look at pictures of him, holding me when I was little,being really loving, and I don’t know how we got to this place…but yet I know all the horrible twists that he brought, into our life, to get there.
It is a bit like watching someone die, even though he is still alive. His behavior just reinforces that real and very saddening sense that there is no time left to get “closure” from him; I need to make my own closure, just like I did with the eu that brought me to this site (cynical lol) gee what a shock that is, huh?
A few years after we started speaking again, my dad suddenly had severe hardship. He visited and started crying at my house and he told me “I have been a bad dad, right?” and I couldn’t really say no, because he was. All I could say was “Thats okay, we have a better relationship now” and he cried and I held him.I could not help doing that. I just could not let him cry like that.
Yet he was awful. I just could not say he had been at all good. He let his crazy stepwives abuse me and do horrible things like lock me in rooms for days, and leave me with a perverted, drunk man who molested me for a whole summer when I was 11 and then not do anything when I told about it. He put me in foster care at 16 and luckily I ended up with a good one which is why I am functional now, He stole money that my grandpa on my mother’s side left me for college ( he did give some of it back later when we started speaking again, but not the whole amount)…I could go on. I was so angry for so long, and I just had such low self-esteem for most of my 20’s. But now yes, as you say Mag, I can see how weak he is, and under the sadness is not even as much anger as just…I feel hopeless. I don’t think, anymore, that I could hold him, like I did that time he cried. I just don’t have it in me anymore to feel for him; this last vacation put me back before that “apology” to where we were before. It is like a wasteland, that relationship, and it is scorched and no matter how many good intentions I have I can’t want to water it again. If that makes sense.
Thanks all, sorry to be such a downer I guess I am just feeling a bit…of creating that closure which I guess is when you cry? That is so new; I just usually get mad. I wish I could get back to being angry because it hurts less although I know it does more damage, in the long run. Thanks again for the wisdom and support all.
Hi, Dancingqueen, good job on 20 yrs NC, you tried for the classic hope is eternal “one last time” to see if things would be different and you could get some love and respect, and now you know how that turns out. Your story is a classic example, you’re father sounds Borderline personality disordered. Read up on why one child is selectively abused by a dysfunctional parent, why the borderline never gets better, never apologizes, and actually gets worse over time. Therapists often give up on them. Many of us have survived this textbook scenerio- you can now absorb the futility of the relationship ever getting better- even up to and including the last chance hope that things would change with your fathers advanced age and with his health failing. He will still be toxic. Best to let this go forever, rather than be freshly shocked and chronically abused and disappointed. You can research- it helps to keep clicking away and seeing people with stories like yours and get on the blogs, it will help. here is a start;
Thanks Anon just got this:) I will be clicking away…..
Do you read my mind?
I sooo needed to read this:
“There’s something you can learn here – if the things that you feel guilty about make you sound like you’ve been at the crack pipe or are things that other people expect as a part of treating themselves with love, care, trust, and respect, or are proud of, you definitely don’t need to be feeling guilty but you do need to get behind you.”
I felt guilt temporarily today when I decided to say yes to a casual hang-out with a guy I sort of know, because even though my ex and I broke up two months ago – I still felt “bad” because by hanging out with new guys I was closing the door more and more to my ex.
Come again? I feel bad? My ex broke up with me because he can’t commit and I feel bad by casually dating other people?! I feel bad for closing the door?? – HE closed the door with his actions and his non-commital ways! You’re right, I do sound like I have been smoking a crack pipe.
Thank you, yet again for some such needed clarity in my life!
Ignore it. I wouldn’t even bother to respond now. ANY response from you is just what he wants. Don’t give him the satisfaction. Think of all of YOUR hurt feelings while you were together and how hard you’ve worked to get to this great stage and to get past your drinking (congrats! that’s a tough one!) and to begin to get over him — don’t set that back by responding, in the positive or the negative, to his invitation. He’s just fishing for info for sure, and for a possible booty call, so do not give him the satisfaction. Delete that whole email thread, for your own sake, and if he emails you again, I’d delete it without reading it. But I’m harsh like that. ; )
I’ve been in your shoes and kicked myself later for responding.
Best of luck, you can do it!
Oh, and I forgot to say, I also hope you don’t feel bad about initially responding to his first email. This is a process, and it’s not like you ‘failed’ by doing that — but it also doesn’t mean that you HAVE to continue the conversation he’s initiated. YOU are in control.
second what Bettyblue just said. It is a learning curve.:)
What a great post Natalie, another reminder…Somehow after reading almost all your posts and comments, plus other books I finally stop feeling guilty. Regarding men, I think it was not my fault that my relationships did not work out…NO more guilt that I might done something wrong or did not do it, these AC were “JUST Passers BY”. Right Man will never leave me in pain and disappointment, also feeling doubting my words and actions. Hurrah, no more guilt in my life:-) Thank you Natalie!!!
Sorry Natalie I just want to add to my comment, I have a new mantra : “Being with me should be privilege, not entitlement”…
I dont know if you would call this regret or guilt…
I feel guilty for not screaming or getting angry at the exEUM when he dumped me. Why? I have issues with anger- when dad used to hit mum, mum didnt get angry, she just cried. Thus, I leart the same. I have however, after therapy, realised that it is not about getting angry but about expressing how I feel (which I have done most of my adult life).
I wish I had called him an a*hole, b*st*rd..anything. I was too shocked and hurt..and crushed to react (had seen him only 2 hours ago) and all I could say was “its ok…”. Even he said “no its not ok, you are so nice, what I did is not ok”.
ITS OK??? Really Lily???!! Thats the best you could do?????
I couldnt say anything mean to him. Nothing. I blame myself so much for this reaction (or lack of). I know it was my mind trying to console myself (..the same words I used when dad him mum and there was no one but myself to console me “it is ok, you will be ok”). I feel sad that my mind holds onto this ONE reaction rather than reminding myself about everything strong, self-respecting/protecting thing I did in this short gig with him.
One of NML’s pin reads “Character is how you treat someone who can do nothing for you”. I treated him with kindness until the end, that is me. I wish I had said something, now I never can (complete NC).
I feel I have failed to stand up for myself. Greatest idiot ever.
PurpleLily, I wanted to say something here as I am all too familiar with the torment of this situation. We don’t always react how we’d like and afterwards we think “Damn! I wish I’d said…” and worry about how we appear. The thing is, this clown probably thought that based on your reaction and what you knew of him during the relationship, that even if he sees fit to get in touch in 10 years, that you will be nice to him. Instead, he’ll be greeted with a ‘closed door’ and SILENCE. That says f*ck off more than anything you could say and the truth is, if you had said what you would have liked to, you’d probably regret that and feel guilty – it’s one of the most common situations I’m emailed about. The guilt about getting medieval then clouds out *why* you were pissed off in the first place. See it as a blessing in disguise and go forward. Trust me, the next time someone attempts to bust your boundaries, you will speak up because that is the lesson out of this.
PurpleLily, Natalie is so right. I always said what I liked in my fits of anger. I called him a ton of names. Then,I woke up in the morning only to regret and feel guilty about what I said. It really was the case that: “The guilt about getting medieval then clouds out *why* you were pissed off in the first place.” By the next morning, I felt so guilty about calling him a rat bastard from hell, I apologized even though he really was a rat bastard from hell. I loved this Natalie: “Trust me, the next time someone attempts to bust your boundaries, you will speak up because that is the lesson out of this.” For me, since I usually speak up but lack the follow up, now I know I will follow up with the flush handle. SILENCE speaks volumes. PurpleLily you can speak up and stand up for yourself by, ironically, going silent. Silence speaks a thousand words. Hang in there. It didn’t matter what I said, it mattered what I did. Silence.
OMG…I remember now..Omgggg. I think in my absolutely teary state I said “you are a good man with a good heart”….What the f*ing WHAT?? I gave him THE ego stroke of all time, right when he dumped me! Man. Am I glad I found BR so now I know he was a d-bag rather than a “man with a good heart”…
Is this NORMAL? To say such things?? What the hell was I thinking?! (other than hurt, devestated and distressed). Can anyone throw some light on my reaction? He busted a major boundary (I recognised that), deceived me, never had the right intentions..and THIS is what I say?! (all pre-BR phase)
Ok. I have to laugh at myself now. You can too. Please do, I deserve it.
Oh, how am I going to get this out of my head??! Yuck. Eeeeww! I need to throw up…or die!!!
@ runnergirl: Thanks for your words. Looks like I did the very opposite of what you did. But silence it is, completele NC from me. I dont think he will get in touch anytime – there is no shortage of women online for a perpetual dater.
Lily, I did the exact same thing with my ex, even thanked him, THANKED HIM, for giving me “more than I expected.” UGH! Talk about cringing now when I think about it! And I have to work with this creep, so every time I see him I’m reminded of my own failure to tell him what I REALLY thought of him at the time. And now (with total NC) it’s too late.
I think this happens because we try to hold onto our dignity in these situations by taking the “high road.” It seems to be the only way to hold onto some poise and self-respect while standing there having our hearts shredded by some a**hole. And I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. Handling oneself with class and grace is NOT giving him an ego-stroke. Sometimes it’s the ranting and screaming and name-calling that really shows him how easily he can get to you.
However, I will not let another similar situation go by without expressing my anger, and hope I can still do that with dignity and grace. I’ve learned since then not to be afraid of anger and to see it as a tool, not as a weakness. PUt this behind you Lily and remember that next time, NEXT TIME we’ll handle things SOOO much differently!!
PurpleLily,
I can’t give a reason why we would reassure a d-bag instead of put him in his place after disgusting behaviour. I only know that I was guilty of that too.
After I found out that the exMM was cheating not only on his wife, but on his original OW, I basically gave him a “get out of jail free” card by telling him I knew he was just trying to find happiness, but in an unhealthy way. I agreed to be friends and told him during one of our many “discussions” that I would have been willing to do almost anything to have him until I knew the truth about the OOW. I told him he was the most compatible partner I had ever had (puke) and I would have changed jobs, moved, basically given up life as I knew it for him. I asked him if he honestly would have considered doing the same for me, and he said something vague like “I was hopeful there was a way we could be together”, and another time: “I very much want you in my future in some capacity”. REALLY?? In *some capacity*???? What a kick in the teeth after I had just given him huge ego strokes and revealed my “hand”.
Then I found BR (phew!)
I regret giving him all those positives after he treated me with utter disrespect. I wish I could take those words back, as I imagine him thinking of them and smiling smugly, basking in the power he thinks he has. (NOT)
I think we may have been “programmed” by our past to be “nice girls”, so even when we have been hurt by someone we find it difficult to tell them what we really think and feel, for fear of bad consequences.
We can’t take back the way we responded. We can only be sure NOT to give them any more power by staying NC. I hope you are able to forgive yourself PurpleLily. You did nothing wrong,you are a *nice* person. The AC’s are not! Strength to you xo
@ Sadder but Wiser and Learner:
Thank you for sharing your experiences with me – I do feel a bit comforted to know that Im not the only person on this planet who is crazy enough to say those things. SbW, I think you are right, it was me holding onto the last bit of poise while he was telling me how I wasnt right for him whilst giving no explaination for his ridiculous behaviour (other than I am not right enough for him).
Thank you Learner, I needed that. Ive just had to cancel my holiday that I had planned for months and was my treat after having dealt with the exEUM..but also got told this week that my role is potentially in trouble and need to start looking for a new job right away (so I can switch before the redundancy).
I am shattered because I had just started to feel better after all EUM crap, a little happy..and now..this.
I’ll be ok, Im a strong cookie (but a slightly distressed one at the moment..)
PurpleLily
Aww, so sorry to hear you are distressed. It’s a shame you had to cancel your holiday. Can you do something else to treat yourself? A visit to a spa? shopping? a massage? a visit with a close friend for talking and laughter?
It’s also a shame about your role. I believe that everything happens for a reason, so perhaps this will mean a new job that you will love even more? In looking for that job, you will have to update your resume, and let others know how awesome you are. You will have a definite goal, that involves you. Sounds like it may still serve the purpose of keeping your mind off the d-bag EUM, and on YOU,huh? I wish you all the best in your search for a new position, and in your continued recovery from your involvement with the EU. xo
PS, Katy Perry’s song “Wide Awake” is playing right now. It’s quite appropriate re: ending things with EUM’s I think. Let’s stay “wide awake” re: protecting ourselves from EUM bullshit! We’re not blind any more, need nothing to complete ourselves. Yay!
Thank you Learner. Im trying to be strong because everything sad/upsetting thing in life has a lesson. Im just not doing my best at the moment because I feel anxious about the job – and with no family around to help me – I have to stay employed.
Im going to work at finding something before they cull my position.
Last night for the first time in 2.5 months of NC, I found my heart saying “I wish you were here to hug me, I really need a hug”. I wont break NC but I do wonder how many more disappointments I can take this year.
But your post did make me go back and redo my resume this Saturday morning! So that is a little hurray! Thank you for your kindness, I hope you are doing really well x
You go PurpleLily!
It’s good to hear you do not plan to break NC. I know what those little episodes are like, when you want to get reassurance from the ex. Even though they are EU, some of them are able to be of some comfort, sometimes, when it suits them (!). But overall, they are just not that good for us. I send you “cyber hugs” (((PurpleLily)))
PurpleLilly and Learner, you are both doing so great. You seem to being learning the lessons quickly and moving on, although I know it’s a daily struggle. Purple, so very sorry to hear about the job situation on top of the ex. Stay strong. While a hug might be nice, it isn’t worth your dignity/soul. Congratulation on revising your resume. You are both amazing. I’m so NC it’s a way of life now but I really struggled (with myself) in the beginning. Ladies you are an inspiration. You’ve come so far in such a short time…at least compared to me! Giant hugs.
Very good point: if you had called him an assh*le, you’d likely feel guilty about that. Excellent point: your silence now says f off better than anything 🙂 The anger you have at yourself is proof that you can get angry. For sure, life will provide more opportunities to direct your legitimate anger.
Cloud and Townsend have a funny video where Cloud imitates someone first establishing boundaries: the first time someone asks an unreasonable thing, the person says “okay”, then feels bad and eats 6 pizzas in secret. The second time, the person holds up their hand, says, ummmmmmmm, well, …. okay and then feels bad and goes off and eats 3 pizzas. The next time she says, I don’t really think I can, you know, but if you really, then, I’ll have to think about it, but …. okay. Then she just feels bad but doesn’t binge. The next time, she says, I’m sorry, I’m afraid I can’t. And feels scared. But she lives. Etc.
It takes practice to say no, to stand up for yourself, to assert yourself! No worries if you didn’t have perfect boundaries this time! Lots of life left to practice.
Purplelily.
I feel for you. If it helps, I did the exact same thing more or less when I broke up with the man who brought me to this site, more than 2.5 years ago. I did not express anger I just shut down and escorted him out of my house and ignored a very tiny bit of follow up on his end. I was so angry at myself for so long, and guess what? I don’t regret how I handled it now, in hindsight.
I know now, you feel weak, but let me tell you: You acted with dignity and humanity and there will be a time when you actually will be glad you acted that way or at least forgiving of yourself. I don’t regret my passivity because, as Nat said, I learned from it and I NEVER made that mistake again. I am now very clear when I need to speak up, and, as a bonus point, if I ran into the epiphany ex now I am clear that he would probably view me with respect for not flipping out. I really think guys like that are hoping that you will flip out so that they can call you “crazy”
You did the right thing for what you felt at the moment; shut down, distressed. Forgive yourself, he did way way worse:) Hugs.
@ dancingqueen : firstly, love that song!
Thank you for your kind words..I do have moments where it comes up and I find it hard to forgive myself. But most days, I am proud of myself because of exactly what you said – he did way worse. Atleast I did not deceive and was genuine and dignified till the end.
I just dont get it..every EUM has called me “nice/honest/lovely” (even while breaking up!) and still done crappy things. I am a good human being and I wouldnt change that. But I feel guilty for being “nice” (when did it become a BAD quality?!) to these guys…maybe I need to be nasty (but really, they wouldnt get that too. Like you said, I’ll just get called “crazy/psycho”).
Someday, I wont have moments of regret but be completely proud of how I handled it.
@ NML and Magnolia
Thank you muchly for taking the time to read and reply (I did have my “NML replied to my post!” moment).
Gawd, you ladies are right – if I had screamed at him, I would have to deal with the mammoth guilt of actually having had called him names (and any ‘one false move’ mentality that would have come with that). Im all “grace under pressure”so..in hindsight and when my sad/hurt emotions dont cloud my thoughts, I am satisfied with how I reacted – I was true to what I felt at that moment. Was it perfect..no, but I dont think it ever will.
Natalie, I do have much to learn about values and how to listen to my gut and the signals sent to me. If anything, this is the biggest lesson I am taking from this EUM. Going all medieval (love that word!) isint part of my personality but I want to learn to recognise and opt out.
I did assert myself at the very first instance hot turned to cold (exLily would have let it go on and on for months) and for this, I am immensly proud of myself! NML, you are so right, recognising boundary busting and standing up has made me feel super good about my self-esteem (but much more to still learn..). It has taken me almost 2 years of therapy and self-compassion to get to this.
Next time: perfect boundaries (thanks Mag!) and recognising red flags right away (“No Lily, they were not amber flags!” LOL). Lots to learn, lots to practice.
Thank you NML for the amazing work you do here and for everyone’s posts!
PurpleLily, your comments prompted me to take a look at the last email I sent to the creature before going NC. I remember wanting to verbally bash him so much, but instead listened to Natalie and other ladies advice and controlled myself, well almost, I did call him the ‘king of ambiguity’ but that’s hardly a bashing. After telling him I needed space and time to work through my grief I wished him well. I should have stopped there, but ended with maybe we could be friends later. Now, 8 weeks of full NC (no stalking whatsoever and only once looking at his picture) I don’t even want to be his friend. Thank you, thank you, thank you to Natalie and everyone who has posted here. Still have lots of work to do, but NC is the way to go and it has and continues to be my saving grace. If I could hug you all I would.
The AC (he’s been divorced, for 10 years, & has a teenage son) I was seeing on & off for 7 to 8 months, disappeared on me 4 weeks after we came back from a weekend away. In those 4 weeks he reneged on 3 dates. I tried to meet up with him to finish with him, cos he started to downgrade us after we came back from the weekend away but made an excuse about not being able to meet up. So I was denied chances to finish with him face to face. So I tried to phone, no answer, he texts back “I’m really busy at the moment” pftt!! I never bothered to phone again after that; but stubborness got the better of me & I inboxed him on FB saying how disrespectful it was to disappear on me suddenly when we were supposed to meet. He replied to me 3 days later with a sob story about how he’s suffering from heavy depression & needs to be alone. I did not contact him again after this. He has obviously sent me this message to guilt-trip me for attempting to phone him & then inbox him. He blocked me on FB 3 days after his response to make sure I do not message him anymore & to make me feel guilty for trying to contact him. At first I felt guilty, but not anymore. Why should I feel guilty, I just wanted some answers & closure. Well I have been doing NC now for over 5 weeks & counting.
Keep up the NC! He sounds like he was mentally through with you sometime during that weekend away. But he was too chickenshit to do anything about it. I had someone do this to me at the end of March, same thing; weekend away, all of a sudden he was sooo busy that we wouldn’t be able to see each other for a month…when I offered a quick meet after work, he knocked it down. Mind you, all of this was done by text and e-mail. Then I started reading up on all the articles here about being “managed” by guys who only text and email and I thought, “ENOUGH”. All the facebook stuff was just a way of managing the fact that he bowed out of your relationship in a most low-budget way. He wasn’t man enough to tell you, he had to let you “figure it out”, but to figure out, you had to chase a bit. He’s probably one of those asses you equates you wanting a simple answer to you being “crazy”.
I have learned, having had guys fade away, that they are NOT good boyfriends because all stress/conflict/problems will be addressed by their disappearing or ignoring you.
A guy who I went on a few dates with last year recently got back in touch with a very flirty text. That was two weeks ago, and I have no intention of responding. It screams of “tapping me up” and not of genuine interest. Otherwise he would have called. Tut. Without this blog, I would have been flattered and would have been on the dating merry-go-round again.
Oh and my ex tried to make me feel guilty when I ended it after he disappeared and turned cold on me. I was left asking “Why did I pick an argument with him over this”, “why didn’t I just keep schtum about it?” Well it turns out “it” was a flashing red sign that he wasn’t over his ex. When I ended it, he tried to make me feel guilty by claiming his depression came back – well, I suffer periodically from visitations of the Black Dog and I never treat people poorly like that! Point proven when he referred to me as the c-word on Twitter.
I don’t know if I am feeling guilty or have deep regret that I did not leave home, I keep thinking if I had left much earlier than what I did life would be different now. I would have cut down the number of years my step dad sleazed on me I try not to let this eat at away at me but it does because I feel I could have changed things in my life and I didn’t even try I just put up with it.
Very happy that dating is the last thing on my mind. There’s just more important things in life (& that’s a fact!)
Finally did it, either don’t reply at all (a taste of his own medicine wont hurt & will actually be poetic justice), or if you must, simply say, ‘no thanks – I”m not interested’ & leave it at that. Do NOT offer any info on your life AT ALL & RETURN TO NC. He is just fishing for info – f*ck him! He screwed you over & it was a mistake to reply to him in the first place.
Re guilt. I have thought about this momentarily. I stil occassionaly think of my deceased ex AC. I haven’t been able to let my feelings out yet in terms of grieving due to my studies so it’s all bottled away somewhere still. There’s just been no time fo grieving. The most I get to is reflecting on what my thoughts about him are. ie Am I just maintaining NC because he died or did I actually heal & move on. I was 6 mths into NC when I learned of his passing so I think the latter. Also, I don’t feel guilty about anything to do with him as I didn’t do anything wrong. He was just AWFUL to me though – truely awful. That’s why I’m so relieved. I’m sad that he died but I don’t ‘miss him’. He was a nightmare. If anything it’s good to know that the trouble he brought to my life will never again be at my door (sounds awful & maybe a tinge of guilt to admit feeling this way but that’s how it is).
Thanks to everyone for their advice on the previous post, i’ve been trying to keep busy and keep my mind off him.
Got a text from him apologising for not getting back to me at the weekend, and asking to meet for a drink tonight.
I haven’t replied even though my friend that I was gonna see tonight cancelled and I have nothing else to do so I could actually go. But I won’t.
Is this progress?
confusedd
If you have decided that he is not right for you, and are working/focusing on YOU, and refuse to chase after someone who has basically told you he doesn’t want you to be his girlfriend; if you have realized that it is not productive to see him “one more time” just to explain to him that you don’t think you can be friends; if you do NOT see him, and find something more productive to do, I would say that is progress, yes. Time to look at yourself and figure out why you may be attracted to someone who has basically rejected you. You deserve better. Strength to you xo
Yes it is!! Keep it up, Confusedd, don´t answer him, keep him wondering – it´s the least he deserves.
Yes Confusedd, it’s progress as long as you don’t respond to his lame attempt to hook you again. I have a suggestion: Paint your finger nails (purple) and then you can’t respond because you don’t want to ruin the polish. And you’ll feel much better in the morning when you wake up with perfect purple nails. It worked for me when I was in the quicksand. Who in their right mind would ruin their nails for some dweeb?
Phoenix – wow I can’t believe that guy treated you like that! What an a-hole!
Like many womyn, I was often “controlled” as a child by my alcoholic parents making me feel guilty. I really do try and avoid hurting others as it is the decent thing to do. I still feel some residual guilt for hurting the feelings repeatedly of a “local” that did not share my values, hated my lifestyle, etc. He was very critical of me and sometimes, under duress, I would vent at him, hurting his feelings. Eventually he left, and at first I was relieved to have my life back. I feel badly about causing him hurt (he used a lot of guilt tripping, just like my parents had), but when someone really pushes your buttons, it doesn’t exactly bring out the best in you. I am generally a pretty tolerant and mellow person. This past year, I have felt very badly about having to reject some on line guys and locals: perhaps becasue of that didn’t do so immediately. Always treated them like friends and no physical anything whatsoever. Just had zero attraction for them. Felt nothing.Hard to kindly explain to someone that they just son’t do it for me. Now I have hired a neighbor to help me with the trickier parts of the building; he is an experienced carpenter who lost an arm and now does odd jobs. He keeps making references to my looks, etc, wants to take me sailing, here we go again. I like him as a friend only, We are very different in educational levels, many core values, fitness levels, and lifestyle. I have learned the hard way to avoid any entanglements in this small town; when it goes bad, you have a problem down the road, at work, at the grocery store etc. I am going to have to tell him we will only ever be friends. He’s going to think that I don’t like him due to his disability when in truth, It is many other things about him that are the issue. What to do?
Want the say thank you to all who took the time to reply back to me. I really appreciate it and I have re-read all comments a number of times. Was it a mistake to reply back to him? Probably. He truly doesn’t deserve the time of day from me. Was it a big enough mistake to derail all the progress I made over the last year? No way. Thank you all again and also thank you to others who have come here and shared their stories. I’m sure we are all different from each other in many ways but we all share in the soul destroying experience of getting involved with these men – nothing quite like it.
Just want to thank u nat for all the wonderfull post. These post really are always on point! Nat thanx for being empathetic,intutiave,and for caring enough to blog for wounded souls on their journey to healing and peace!! Xoxoxo
Ok, so I have a more recent example about feeling guilty:
Recently, I have been heavily ruminating (which is a terrible problem for me) on whether or not I should take a year off from college so that I can get my life back together after dealing with two ass-clowns who basically ruined my life. So the story goes, I sent an email to the new president of the organization that I had run last year, and she thanked me for informing her. She forwards the email I sent her to the current committee, and she accidentally (I’m assuming) sent the email to me as well. She basically tells them that I “apparently” decided to take a gap year, and had “decided” to inform her of this at the last minute. I find her behavior incredibly passive aggressive because on the face of it, she is acting nice, but behind the scenes, she basically makes me look like a twat for informing her of this at the last minute.
So now I feel guilty as hell for ever considering taking time off in the first place and having had to send this email to her informing her of my upcoming absence from the committee.
In my guilty consciousness tornado over the last couple of hours, I have thought about what she has said of me in that email and it’s almost like I can’t breathe. Is this my fault or should I learn a lesson about this for the future and learn to inform people more promptly of my absence? It’s just annoying in general, and I feel like moments like these have perpetually defined my life over the past year or so: doing something and getting a pie thrown in my face and then wondering after the fact if it was my fault.
I need a redemption.
ACaddict (have you thought about a name change?!)
Anyone with any sense at all reading an email like that would see clearly that the woman’s stuff is about HER. If I read something like that, I would think, “Oh, wow, she sounds really frustrated.”
I wouldn’t think, “Oh, this person she’s talking about sounds like a twat.’
Granted, whoever read it isn’t me, but it sounds like the way you are taking this is reflecting your beliefs and fears about yourself more than reality.
Purplelily…..I agree with the brilliant comments addressed to you . You will with hindsight be thankful you didn’t come across as a psycho crazy horse !! I know we can feel guilty at the end of it all thinking about the coulda woulda shoulda things we did or didn’t say ….but its a waste of mental and emotional.energy. what happened happened. At the end of my last ( and final !!! ) ac shenanagins of one year… I knew by now that his behavior was unacceptable but I didn’t speak up as I now knew the consequences…silent treatment .. disappearing, turning the blame… In retrospect I so wish I’d flushed and walked then !!!
At the end when he was giving me the ” its all about timing ” speach …and that for now we would have to call it a frienship not a relationship ( yawn ..blah bloody blah ) ….I still didn’t say altho the things that had been festering inside …I gave him a hug !!!! Yikes yes I did ..and told him I was greatful for all the great times !! ..wtf ???
I felt guilty for ages …with myself for not saying how I felt…but it was for me discovering how NC really works that absolved the guilt…and ruminating…have imaginary conversations in my head….oh and not so imaginary I did send an email telling him how many promises he had broken . Wish I hadn’t done that either !!!!!
With NC I slowly began to see the relationshit how it really was…err ” not all that ” ….instead of dwelling on all the good times and his good points ( ahem…) I could clearly and miraculously REMEMBER ( like I’d had some sort of shit behavior amnesia..) every sulk , every rage, every silence , every lie ( infact NC helped me see some huge whoppers that I didn’t recognise at the time !!!) , every false promise , every future fake, every excuse , every fake tear, every weirdo thing , every selfish act, every cruel hurtful word….
NC was hard at first then like switching a light on in a very dark place !!! I don’t feel one speck of guilt about what I should have said…..I don’t care anymore , he wasn’t worth my precious time. And I feel relief as opposed to guilt….
It’s a process but I’m definately getting there.
Thanks NML and you amazing women.
@ FF : Psycho crazy horse – LOL!! If anything he would have been totally perplexed as to why I was that nice to him. I dont think he quiet realised what to do with my mature way of talking thru it and never raising my voice. Of course, I said some very stupid things that I am sure gave him a massive ego stroke (see post above).
Im sorry your exEUM treated you that poorly. What is it with these people. But you are right, NC is pretty spectacular and lets you see the person for who he/she is. Plus give you the opportunity to work on yourself. I seem to remember new things everyday but I am so glad that he is no longer and will never be a part of my life.
It is really wonderful to see that you are doing well 🙂 Good on ya! Im still ages away from that but I have been feel well and the ‘head-slam-desk’ days seem to be decreasing.
NC works and sending hugs to everyone who is working so hard at keeping strong and keeping NC x
If it helps anyone….when I first came to BR…and read about NC….ithought no way !! The thought of having no contact or access to my then AC terrified me….it was a concept I didn’t think I could do….I thought NC might work for others but it wasn’t an idea I could embrace.
Anyway…after trying it my way….and ending up in a worse soul destroying AC relationshit….. I got it ! Natalie is so so so right !! NC all the way. It’s the way to heal.
If you think you can’t do it ….believe me you can.
I didn’t go or reply, stayed home and read a book. Didn’t see the nail varnish tip until now- I will be using that tip in the future ! What a good idea! 🙂
I’m goin to focus on relaxing and letting go, I’ve been stressing so much over this that I’ve had psychosomatic reactions – has anyone any tips?
You’re right I do need to figure out why I’m engaging in this….it reminds me of a couple of breakups i’ve had where I didn’t want to let go and accept the breakup but they were actual breakups from relationships whereas this was …well I’m not quite sure what to call this!
Confusedd, I´m reading Women who love too much by Robin Norwood at the moment, it is quite an eye opener as to the WHY.
I don´t think my experiences have been that extreme as most cases in the book, but it has helped me to understand myself and my reasoning (things like the myth that if you love someone enough he will morph into this handsome prince).
Perhaps it all comes down to loving someone else more than yourself…
I´ve had the same reaction as you describe when faced with breakups, they´ve made me loose weight and become physically ill! The only advice I can give is to take care and pamper yourself, eat and sleep well, look for distractions.
hello all, nice article, nice subject, nice comments
when guilt is set aside, grieving begins- healing begins. Clearing away the guilt allows us to be more connected to what it is that we are experiencing, our thoughts and our actions in light of that experience (authenticity) and thus to be more present with our experience, our emotions and ourselves.
for further reading:
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/11/27/5-tips-for-dealing-with-guilt/
Go Learner! You are so awesome! (I’m slow learner. Lol!)
Purplelily, head slam desk days love it 🙂 …been there done it 🙁 . I don’t know if our reactions are ” normal ” but they are not reasonable ! If it makes you feel better I think I added that he was an amazing man with amazing qualities despite his flaws ….err what ???
Ego stroke central….I suspect underlying that sort of response is ” I want you to leave with good memories of me ” , ” I want to leave the door open ” , those are prob the reasons a said it and was ” nice ” , BUT they are not the reasons anymore.
Lily..” the creature ” love love love it !!!!!
I am on my 90 day mark for no contact. I feel so much better like a weight has lifted! I had to block the AC from my personal email so he couldn’t use the spare key and come in and out when he pleased. We had the “Fantasy” online thing for 2.5 years. I was his Fallback girl..i.e. listening to his problems, wining about his life and how nobody understands a struggling musician/writer/artist life challenges. The last straw was how he told me it was MY FAULT for being stuck in his head and that he needed to split UP with me (mind you I live in the USA he lives in LONDON)..never had a date? only skype conversations………so he said if you have something to say email ME..that was IT for me…I never looked back after 90 days of NC!!!! I know he probably emailed me but got a mailer return from my AOL account…he will remained Blocked forever and I have decided I am worthy of LOVING me first. It is comforting to know that so many women here have gone through the same thing. I thank you all for the wonderful posts..I have LEARNED so much from this site!
I was watching ophra’s interview with rihanna the other day, it confused me and at the same time made my blood boil. Rihanna is an amazing woman, talented and beautiful on the inside and out. After all Chris Brown put her through, she has found the strength to forgive him and remain friends with him. She felt bad for him to a certain degree.did she forgive herself first? I know it starts with forgiving yourself but I guess I’m not there yet.
,
Lilia,
I haven’t heard of that book, I will google it thanks. Are u ok now?
I am a male and have read many posts on this site. I’m not sure this is the correct post to write this particular comment on but I figured it was the most recent post and probably get the most views.
I’m currently going through a situation with a girl who I guess according to this site is EU and an AC. The “relationship” if you can even call it that is on the tail end and honestly I’m not sure if I will ever see this girl again.
So I have been trying to pursue something with this girl despite the many red flags I have seen. She was engaged 10 months ago to a guy she was with for 5 years, he cheated on her, she parties/drinks and does cocaine more than I think is “normal” she is on anti anxiety pills and anti-depressents. They all are telling me to run and hide but I pursued anyway because, she initially showed strong interest and she keeps contacting me.
Anyway, yes everyone and their mothers are telling me this girl is trouble, no good, has issues, walled off, closed off, she won’t let ANYONE in right now, she’s not ready for a relationship etc…
On top of that she has done some disrespectful things towards me.
So I’m trying to wrap my head around all this. I read posts on this site about red flags, hot and cold, emotionally unavailable, ass clowns etc…
All these posts make me feel better because they make me not only feel like i am doing the right thing by walking away but that i’m better off and this girl is not a “quality” girl. She is an AC and EU.
But is this the truth? Are calling these people AC and EU really the truth? Is he really not “quality” I feel like it’s such a easy way to place blame on them and make you feel better about yourself.
When in reality maybe it is just as simple as “they are not that into you”. I keep thinking it really is that simple. I sat around and was waiting for this girl to change. But maybe she will change and will open up and stop partying/drinking etc.. when she meets someone that she actually is into.
Is it this simple?
Thoughts?
Hi Mike,
You raise a really common concern: is it just that she doesn’t like me that much? As in, if she liked you enough, wouldn’t she calm down, and “let” you “in”?
Some of the others might have the actual links to the relevant articles but NML has written on exactly this question.
Don’t make her behaviour about you. You think that “love” makes someone change from being a hard partyer-drug user-disrespecter to someone kind, stable and open? No – you’ve got to take her as you find her, if she’s wrapped up in herself, then that’s where she’s at. You also have to see that you still somewhat hope that you (you being a good guy, and she should see that, etc) are the kind of guy girls change for. That’s romantic in a naive way; and is a bit about your own ego.
It is simple, but not in the way you frame it. What is simple is she has shown you who she is, and you don’t accept that but think instead about who she could be. What is simple is that you could be looking for a woman who likes you and treats you kind from the get-go.
Dear Mike,
I dont think your girl is ready to pursue a genuine relationship with anyone at the moment. She was in a long term relationship which ended with a broken engagement and I feel she is partying hard as her way of coping. She drinks too much, she uses cocaine and uses anti depressant medecation. This is terrible cocktail of drugs to be using together and am sure would cause the person to exhibit some dreadful behaviour. You said she uses more cocaine that is ‘normal’, I would think the normal usage of cocaine is NIL but then I am probably from a different era altogether. You are not going to fix her behaviour so that she becomes an amazing girlfriend. She will have to realise that for herself and she sounds like she has a long way to go before the realisation kicks in. You said there are red flags, and she has already disrespected you. I would listen to friends and family as sometimes the people NOT emotionally invested can see things more clearly.
Dear Mike,
Don’t bleach the red flags white….I find people don’t change because we want them too. I spent half my life picking the wrong people thinking I can change them! Wrong!!! In the long run take care of yourself or you will end up hurt. I know we never listen to other people we do what we want but they are not in the love fog so they probably have a better perspective!…
Hello all,
I have read women who love too much by Robim Norwood and it is a realistic direct book
Mike do not internalize, u have known her as she is, her true self, n it is a blessing to know the true self of a person, before it is too late, u didnot accept her which makes her unsuitable to u, listen to ur family n friends cause they r able to view things in more objective way
Very good article and quite true! My mother is the one person one Earth who has the capacity to drive me into a blind rage which can last for days. She has always had a way of making me feel obligated to her, guilty if I don’t do what she wants, and totally helpless. She’s quite manipulative and cunning but what’s more maddening is most everyone thinks her completely kind and friendly. She is like a chameleon who changes her colors as she needs to and is all things for all people. She has a long history of bad relationships (romantically and otherwise), terrible depression and anxiety, and despite having lofty goals (more like dreams) she never really gets far. She always brags how much getting intensive therapy helped her and yet, she is totally dysfunctional and the exact same way as was 10 years, 20 years ago. I have to stop expecting validation and apologies from her because I know it will never happen and the few petty apologies she did give me were inventions of her own making and reality. I just hate how she has power over me and this ability to get me to do what she wants most of the time. I worked hard to change my perspectives and I’ve succeeded in forming good relationships with other people outside of my family, but it’s feels impossible within my family as they are all dysfunctional. I don’t have anything to do with the majority of them (we are a small group as it is) and my mother is the one I still have left and I am ready to make a break from her in the interest of saving myself. It’s hard to keep firm lines drawn when someone knows how to bust down every wall you put up and can outmanuever every defense – the only thing I have left to use is a good offense. 🙂