Something that differentiates between healthy and unhealthy relationships is the presence of excuses, whether it’s yours and/or theirs. In the worst of situations, where you may be denying, rationalising, and minimising, you might even be making excuses for their excuses which only goes to show how poor the original excuse was.
Just as disrespect lies on the other side of a jumped boundary, on the other side of an excuse often lies not only an element of disrespect but also the real reason.
An excuse is a reason that‘s given to justify an offence or fault. Its primary purpose is to lessen responsibility by getting someone to overlook, excuse, or even forgive off the back of it.
This, of course, is rather tricky because when there are excuses, it means that any commitment is being lessened. In turn, this means everything else tied to it becomes pretty flimsy. You might also overlook things that bust up your boundaries.
People often get ‘reasons’ and ‘excuses’ mixed up because there appears to be some crossover.
Excuses allow people to remain in their uncomfortable comfort zone. They dodge conflict by avoiding honesty both with others and themselves, dodge accountability, and cast themselves in a better light.
Saying, “The dog ate my homework”, gives the impression you’ve been a victim of misfortune and avoids conflict. Whereas saying “I couldn’t be arsed to do my homework” or “I forgot” makes you look lazy and unconscientious.
Likewise, saying “I’ve been really busy” gives the impression that you’re so busy (ya know, busier than a world leader) that you haven’t had the time to contact or see them. Whereas saying “I’m not interested / am half-hearted / have been trying to get back with my ex” will put you in the position of saying something that would make most people squirm (and possibly invite ‘conflict’). If you tend to hedge your bets, you might also want to keep them as a rainy-day option. If anything, you’re hoping they’ll take the hint and do your job for you. At the worst of things, you might hope that your excuse opens the door to using this person again.
Excuses are inherently negative, whereas things happen every day that are positive that have reasons behind them.
A reason is a cause or an explanation and, yes, sometimes a justification for something happening.
A reason doesn’t lessen responsibility or even act as an automatic precursor to being excused or forgiven.
What differentiates a genuine reason from an excuse is that when someone provides a reason for why something has or hasn’t happened, a solution follows.
People who make excuses aren’t really looking to ‘make shit happen’. They’re not trying to find a solution that you can both live with or attempting to rectify or make amends.
Excuses are not real reasons; they’re bullshit ones.
In my post about ‘Sorry’, I explained how when someone gets on your case about accepting their apology or forgiving them that it really means:
“Look, can you hurry the eff up and accept my apology so I can stop feeling bad about it? Perceiving me as wronging/hurting/abusing/whatever you is terribly inconvenient. My ego doesn’t like the pinch of reality, so if you don’t mind, get a shuffle on. Accept my apology, and let’s move on so I can slam my palm down on the Reset Button.”
Well, guess what? When someone uses an excuse, they’re really saying:
“Look, hurry the eff up and get off my case so I can get my shag/ego stroke/shoulder to lean on/money/perfect image back, etc. Perceiving me as wronging/hurting/abusing/whatever you is setting off my responsibility alarm bells which is setting off my reality alarm bells which is setting off my commitment, expectation, and intimacy alarm bells. The sooner I’m excused, the sooner I can get back to doing what I always do.”
Or “Look, can you hurry the eff up and get off my back because I’m only offering up this feeble justification for what I’ve said/done or failed to say/do because the real reason doesn’t sound too great when said out loud and may invite conflict. Plus, if I gave you the real reason, it would put me in the position of actually having to do something.”
Sometimes the excuse(s) translates to “Please reduce your expectations of me and this relationship immediately.”
Sometimes, they’re even saying, “Look, you know and I know what’s happened here. Still, if you want to go along with this charade, I’ll throw you an excuse. Let’s see how much more of a free ride I can get.”
Sometimes, they’re saying, “Wow, it seems like you don’t seem to see what’s really going on here! Can’t you see I ain’t shit?!/ Can’t you see that I clearly am not putting in the time and effort here? Hmmm…well, I won’t be direct with you because I don’t want to look like the bad guy here. Instead, I’ll palm you off with this excuse in the hope you get the hint. And if you don’t, well, it’d be almost rude not to avail of what’s on offer…”
Often it’s literally “I cannot be arsed to put some real effort into a real reason.”
Sometimes you make excuses for their excuses. “I’m telling you… I’m not leaving! You’re the best thing I’ve never had (or only had for a short time before the Future Faking ended), and I don’t want to let go of the fantasy. Because then I’d have to see and accept some uncomfortable things and even get out of my comfort zone. You’re gonna love me!” Side note: best read in the style of Jennifer Hudson.
And when you make excuses for yourself, it like, “I’m not really looking to find a solution or take any action that would involve making a decision and leaving my comfort zone.”
Behind every excuse is the real reason.
Sometimes it simply boils down to “I don’t want to try”.
What’s really important is that you don’t clog up your life with excuses, whether it’s yours or theirs, because you’ll become a person of inaction that doesn’t make decisions.
Excuses, especially when we buy into them, make things appear more complicated than they are.
The next time you’re presented with an excuse, it’s time to ask, “So what does this mean?” or “So what happens next?” I remember when Dot Dot Dot Man told me how busy he was for the umpteenth time and how he wasn’t ready for a relationship. I told him that he clearly doesn’t have time for a relationship, and this meant that our ‘relationship’ was over. That’s what it meant, and that’s what happens next when someone keeps excusing themselves for not having the time, energy, decency or even ability to evolve into a copilot in your relationship.
When someone is looking to maintain the status quo and keeps palming you off with excuses, no solutions are on the horizon. After all, if they’re the ones making the excuses, they have to be a part of the solution. This would mean they have to be responsible in the relationship, which means that excuses become redundant.
You’ll know you’re in a healthy relationship when you don’t have to listen to excuses or make excuses. Instead of accepting excuses, start accepting the reasons.
Your thoughts?
The new edition of Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl is now available to buy in print and in digital formats plus, check out my ebooks The No Contact Rule and more in my bookshop.
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Yeah ha ha right on Nat! I remember “that” conversation well….
Him: we gotta end this thing
me: why
Him: its over
me: and your reasons for this are????
Him: there you go being difficult again
me: by asking a simple question?
Him: see….. that’s what I am talking about
Ya I made it difficult alright – difficult to squirm out of it. At the time I was bewildered but now I see what it really was – an excuse and the real reasons were worse than I imagined. Glad that’s gone but ya – the “Calling BS on the Excuse” supplement does come with the BS Diet for those interested.
This post is extremely true for my situation. I got involved with an assclown who makes excuses for not seeing me outside of his bedroom. He works at a night club (wow) and doesn’t get home until really late. This is when he calls me. Sometimes he calls me from work throughout the day to validate why he’s never available. I found myself getting angry then apologizing for it. It’s been going on for 5 months and I am really done with all. I told him that I really believe he is seeing other women and he told me this is not true. He works at a night club! Women there all the time. I still can’t help to want to sleep with him when I’m ready since he is the only man I’m sleeping with. He sometimes have an excuse for not sleeping with me because he has to be at his day job really early. I checked all of this by calling him different times throughout the day – it all seems to check out. But I already know I want more and he knows too. He appears to be remorseful about it. I’m still flirting and dating other men so I really don’t care for his excuses anymore.
Ronni
This is a mess you don’t want. You admit you,re having sex with an AC, and are also seeing other men. I know he will never be available to you, but it’s an uncomfortable position to want availability from one man when you’re seeing other men too (even if you’re not having sex with them). It’s like both of you are playing each other. Which is fine if that’s what you like but the woman usually comes off worse.
And the reason you should not care for his excuses if because YOU respect yourself too much. Not because you have fallback men to validate you.
The way forward is to get rid of the lot of them and start again. You may have plenty of excuses not to do that, shovel through it and look for the reason.
“Look, hurry the eff up and get off my case so I can get my shag / ego stroke / shoulder to lean on / money / perfect image back etc. You perceiving me as wronging/hurting/abusing/whatever you, is setting off my responsibility alarm bells which is setting off my reality alarm bells which is setting off my commitment, expectation, and intimacy alarm bells. The sooner I’m excused, the sooner I can get back to doing what I always do.”
Oh Nat, that is my ex to a T. Like, exactly. That is what I dealt with for five freakin’ years. If I hadn’t gone NC, it would be at the SIX year mark. I know NC is supposed to be not responding to anything, but I got Yet Another Bullshit Missive (via text, of course) from him and, frankly, I’ve had it. Here’s what I said:
“Obviously you aren’t taking the hint, so let me take one last stab at spelling this out for you. I am no longer your back-up girl for when you are out of options. Tell yourself whatever you want, but your behavior was disrespectful and downright mean. If you really are the ‘changed man’ you claim to be, you’ll respect that your getting in touch upsets me and I no longer wish to hear from you. The last time, when you said that you ‘felt bad’ about how you treated me, you wound up doing the same thing all over again. We will never be friends. We have no foundation for a friendship. I’ve made the decision to get on with my life. Please respect it.”
Here’s hoping that did the trick!
I like this, Natasha. Well done. Now you can decidely get on with your life and a simple chuckle and delete if he tries to contact you.
Thank you Elle 🙂 I think a chuckle & delete is much better than a conniption haha!
Well said Natasha! But what I admire more than what you wrote is that you are at a place where you mean it. Your head is above water, things are clear which means the hope is dead and you truly want more for yourself. It is a little scary to me that when I look inside I know I am not quite there yet so I am relieved that he is just not contacting me.
Yes, it takes time, really meaning these things, and not just saying them to fool anyone, or worse, be strategic. But, with time, courage and discipline, you do get there. Only today, of all times, I was unpacking a box and found this ‘until I get a real one’ ring from the AC. It made me smile to myself. That was it. It was a smile at how both of us were pretty twitish at that time, and a smile in quiet recognition that I have so much more control (in a nice way), stability and creativity in my life than I did when I was looking for these from outside, highly erratic sources.
Going to be in NYC and London for the middle two weeks of Oct. It’s a shame that it’s the wrong order for BR’s 6th birthday bonanza – congratulations Nat! – as I’d love to see you and the other regulars. Will hopefully find other events!
@Lisa – I know exactly what you mean. It took me a looooooong time to get there, so didn’t think just because it’s not happening as quickly as you’d like that it’s never going to happen. I promise you, it will! For many years, I’d break it off after he disappeared (meaning: it was already over, obviously, but I’d have to get the last word in) and I’d do it not because I was over it, had no hope that he’d change or wasn’t thinking it was happening because of something I’d been doing to make me not worth respecting, but because I thought it’s what I “should” be doing and feeling. There was obviously a big element of, “Oh, if I act like I have proper boundaries, he’ll respect me and we’ll end up happy together!” Oy. Just keep doing what you’re doing and it WILL work 🙂
@Elle – That was so, so well said. One of your best comments I think girl!
p.s. Nat, I’m wishing BR a very happy 6th birthday from the US!!
This is all so very true Natalie. This part I think really hits the nail on the head:
“what’s really important is that you don’t clog up your life with excuses whether it’s yours or theirs because you’ll become a person of inaction that doesn’t make decisions. Excuses, especially when we buy into them make things appear more complicated than they are.”
Yes! When we come up with endless excuses (about anything in life really), these are really just excuses to do nothing, to take no action at all even minimal action. I have seen it time and time again with people I know, with family and yep – with myself. I am not one to bust my family/friends’ heads with endless excuses though for years and years… I kinda know when I’m riddled with inaction, so I tend to say nothing much, just have the internal battle and gorge myself quietly on my own excuses; I can be in internal turmoil and those closest to me would never guess it – but it amazes me how some folk don’t have the least clue of what they sound like after whining on and on about the same old issues (into my ear!) for years and years, that they don’t seem to hear themselves – or even just bore themselves with the same old scratchy, worn out excuse of a record that grates on the ears, and at least if they’re not going to do anything about it to just shut the eff up with all the excuses and just get on with it then – quietly – cos misery is catching; it loves company, and I am trying to be happy! Like this 🙂
Of all my reading in BR one of the main things that’s helped me is to stop bullshitting myself – to recognise my strengths as well as my weaknesses. I know when I’m making excuses and it now really grates on me when I have to listen to to other folk bullshitting themselves cos it’s like having to have a conversation with someone about what’s going on in La-La Land today.
Yes, whatever form they take, excuses dressed up as reasons is just responsibility dodging (or buck passing). People who have reasons don’t keep harping on about reasons – they are usually one-offs with a resolution, good or bad. Excuses tho’ are endless – no solution, no resolution, that’s the whole point of them – avoidance.
This is soo true.. when I was dating my last AC, he ditched me on a promised date because he got too drunk with his other friends and his excuse was “my 18 year old cousin got too drunk and he was supposed to be the DD”.. and he was 30 years old! and I almost thought that excuse was legit! And when I wouldn’t get over the incident fast enough, he said ” I already apologized and it’s up to you to forgive me or not”.. like that was sincere.
When we finally broke up, he kept on calling and texting afterwards, and even told me he has a cerebral hemorrhage (he prolly made that up). So I called him back to just make sure he is not dying, and he basically apologized again for all that he didn’t do for me and asked for my forgiveness… Once again, the apology was: “I’m sorry I didn’t do enough for you, it’s because my ex-gf before you didn’t do anything for me, she didn’t even want to give me a ride…” I was furious, once again, the apology was not for me, it was for him to get over the fact that he was an AC…exactly like saying”“Look, can you hurry the eff up and accept my apology so I can stop feeling bad about it? You perceiving me as wronging/hurting/abusing/whatever you is terribly inconvenient and my ego doesn’t like the pinch of reality, so if you don’t mind, get a shuffle on, accept my apology and let’s move on”
A real man will own up to his mistakes and apologizes and tries to make up for it and not force you to forgive him.
Bubbles,
What an ass!!! Cerebral hemorrhage! LOL!!!
He had a cerebral haemorrhage? That’s a cracker. Reminds me of a person who called in sick to work one day saying she had “a wee touch of meningitis”. (Call an ambulance then! Fast.)
Good assessment on what is really going on. Nat there are very strong tendencies to deflect what is “really going on” and recently I realized that Mr UA’s are really nacissicistic / sociopaths. Who don’t derserve the time of day trying to analize their behavior. They are very very scary characters and should have NO CONTACT.
Nat Nat Nat Nat Nat you couldn’t be more right. I saw my ex last week at the grocery store, he was by himself and not with the woman he left me for so he decided to grace me with a chat. It was one BS excuse after another for his behavior including I drove him to cheat.
This whole conversation took less than 5 minutes with me really not saying anything. I should of not even stopped but he took me by surprise and for a moment I didn’t know what to do. I’ve thought all week about what he said and when I read your post today everything became clear and like you’ve said many times Nat you get to a point when you realize there’s nothing there worth getting upset about.
It was obvious his excuses were to make himself feel better about his behavior and he wanted me to validate that. NO WAY!!!!!!!!
You know Mary you just made me realize something. That’s what these people do. They make excuses to make themselves feel better and they want you to validate it, just like Nat says in the post. It’s like they cant believe they are good unless you confirm that their ‘poor’ behavior isnt so bad. That’s what finally prompted my ex ac/eum to stop calling me. I finally told him on the last phone call, after asking him why he called after I told him not to, that I did not think he was a good guy. He then accused me of thinking I was better than him. I told him he was a user and his actions showed he didnt give a crap about me then I hung up. I didnt yell, cry or get emotional I just stated it matter of factly. Havent heard from him since and I now know why. He needed me to validate his ac ways and excuses and I wouldnt do it anymore.
Sometimes, they’re even saying “Look, you know and I know what’s happened here but if you want to go along with this charade, I’ll throw you an excuse and see how much more of a free ride I can get.”
Oh, Nat….I resemble that one…and it hurts
I thought I was in a relationship for 14 years…I find out now I was nothing more than a booty call. He marries another 2 months ago ( excuse arranged/needed heir I could not provide) excuses and reasons ,mostlyfor mommy’s approval …. Excuse, reason, excuses and reasons , really if I look in my heart it is all so much BS. He did it, whatever his reason he was cheating then when I thought we were in love , he’s cheating now, and she does not have any idea who she married. I am in a whilwind and for some CRAZY reason or excuse of my own, I am now at his mercy again listening to any of it, falling for “you know you’re the one I’ve always wanted. I wish you had gotten pregnant etc…My favorite, “the die is cast” and we have to deal with it …. who is he Ceasar?
if I were honest he knew at my age (45) it would be unlikely I would get pregnant again ( I have an 18 uyear old) ..and the mere fact he was with her for ANY reason while sneaking around should be enough….why is it not ????? I am hoping this post Nat might cause me to finally act in my own best interest and send him packing.
foolish too long,
“the die is cast” eh? ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That really takes the prize so far for biggest responsibility dodging excuse. HE cast the die, foolish too long. HE cast it. You are avoiding the reasons that lie behind his excuses. You are making excuses for his excuses. He has choosen someone else. Full stop. His excuses for why he has chosen someone else does not change the fact that HE has choosen someone else (you can get a shag on the side if you want. Go read all the posts on the OW – that’s the now official demoted position he’s offering; he’s offering you relentless heartache on a plate while he gets on with a whole life with someone else. That’s nice of him?)
Maybe it’s time to roll your own dice? You do have dice of your own, don’t you? Even if you are unable to come to any decision of your own you must recognise that HE has. If marrying somene else doesn’t make your relationship with him *over*. What does? What would? Tell him to f8ck off and stay f8cked off. Why? Because, as he says, the ‘die is cast’.
@Foolish too long: I found out not even a week ago that my bf of five yrs is married, has been since lord knows when. Even if he came back crawling on his knees, with a 5 carat diamond, I wouldn’t take the deceitful prick back! Why would you after 14 years?? He’s wasted so much of your time, belittled your love, made you the other woman and you accepted it? Knowing the cycle will continue?
I cannot imagine what it must be like having to give up a relationship you’ve been in for 14 yrs (mine was only 5 and its unbelievably hard), but you MUST!!!
Don’t make excuses for him anymore. Don’t give him the benefit of the doubt, there is no doubt! This is not love, this is intentional, well planned, remorseless abuse!! All those moments of tenderness, the confessions of love, the sweet thoughtful things he does, they mean nothing to him. He’s on auto-pilot to do what he has to in order to get what he wants.
Only you can get yourself out of it, you can’t bank on him being “nice” and ending your cycle of misery, he is NOT nice!! He’s made it clear. He’s washed his hands off any responsibility for you, for your future. It’s you who has to take a decision and stick with it. End of story.
For him to use your age as an excuse is ghastly and shameless.
Thank you for the honesty, as hard as it is to hear. You are all correct, and I thank you for taking the time on my behalf to tell it like it is.
I am so grateful to have found BR, it helps to know I am not alone in the pain of letting go. I really feel like a dumb b*&tch reading what I wrote in black and white …I’m embarrased that I have listened to any of it.
foolish too long
“I really feel like a dumb b*&tch reading what I wrote in black and white”
Join the club 🙂
The important thing is that you begin to take the blinders off. Don’t worry about being judged. No-one is judging you; most of us are here cos we feel like (or have felt like) a fool. Great thing about Natalie’s BR is that here you get ‘no frills’ advice and comment; sometimes it’s hard to hear, but necessary. The stark truth about your situation is that the man you thought you were having a loving relationship with secretly married another woman and then made excuses for it. There can be no defense for the indefensible. That’s why all he’s got is bullshit excuses.
Am wishing you well.
Thanks Fearless for your kind thoughts and not judging.
I really needed to hear that… this guy I dated for about a month in the summer time, who then left town for a month after we had sex and never communicated with me during this time, came back last weekend with an apology and a host of excuses and promises… I slipped, and slept with him again. I’ve been feeling bad all week, and he still hasn’t called, even though he promised not to hurt me this time around… but then he did give the excuse that he’s an arsehole, that his life is crazy, that he’s been hurt before (oh, and I haven’t?)… and the truth is I feel stupid. I feel stupid for falling off this same old EUM cliff again. It’s been how many years now, and all I seem to attract are guys who do nothing BUT give excuses??? I am so sick of this game. I build myself up again, I try to love myself and appreciate my life as is. And almost always, exactly when I forget them or feel better about everything they pop back up with a different strategy to get me to lower my guard… it’s almost a joke. Except I’m definitely not laughing.
Janie
You didn’t “attract” him. You gave him another chance and slept with him. If you can choose this, you can choose something better instead.
What are our lives but the culmination of the choices we have made? If you want it to change, choose differently.
Yes, some of us are disadvantaged but we do turn it around.
I wish I could express adequately how this post just wrapped up day. I’ve been reading BR for a while yet rarely comment and I’ve been really struggling this week. I’ve been complete no contact for 5 mo but it seems I landed back in hurt and was tempted. (I didn’t) Then today I had another HUGE chunk of reality come crashing in. While I was at work I started having a panic attack and left early. It’s like I can’t accept things all at once and I have these moments where “it goes deeper”. I just keep reminding myself to feel my feelings, love myself, and remember it takes time.
But this is absolutely my most favorite post yet. MY LORD, the excuses we were both giving!!!
This was us EXACTLY!!!!!!!!:
“Sometimes, they’re saying, “Wow, it seems like you don’t seem to see what’s really going on here! Can’t you see I ain’t sh*t?!/ Can’t you see that I clearly am not putting in the time and effort here? Hmmm…well I won’t be direct with you because I don’t want to look like the bad guy here, so I’ll palm you off with this excuse in the hope that you get the hint. And if you don’t, well it’d be almost rude not to avail of what’s on offer…”
“And when you make excuses for their excuses “I’m telling you….I’m not leaving! You’re the best thing I’ve never had or only had for a short time before the Future Faking ended and I don’t want to let go of the fantasy because then I’d have to see and accept some uncomfortable things and even get out of my comfort zone. You’re gonna love me!”
“And when you make excuses for yourself “I’m not really looking to find a solution or take any action that would involve making a decision and leaving my comfort zone.”
Wow!
I don’t know what’s an excuse and what’s “valid.” I’m in the process of getting divorced (painful, yes). This summer, a guy (married, yes) from church began e-mailing me (we’ve known each other for a bit) and flattered me to pieces. Of course, I fell for him. He told me how beautiful and desirable I was, and how he saw a future with me. He told me of his plans to leave his wife. Well, I guess it really was a summer fling. I’ve only been able to see him a few times, but he’s also backed off on the e-mails and TMs. I’ve called him on this a few times and always he has “excuses” – busy at work, no time to get at the computer (his wife dictates what he does), etc. But he told me me misses me, still sees me in his future and doesn’t want to “end” things, just that it’s impossible for him to see me now. Of course, these are excuses. I feel so foolish for falling for him (and he’s married) but yet, in a way, I feel like he’s been honest in some senses. Am I kidding myself that there really could be a future with him? I just like him so much. My heart hurts and I feel so sad on top of feeling angry about being led on. And yes, I can’t help checking for a text message to come through…what’s the best way to get over him?
There are people on the website who have dated married men and moved on so they might have better advice.
From every story here and across the earth I will say that, yes, you are kidding yourself that there is a future. And the best way to get over anyone, married or otherwise, is to go No Contact and focus on yourself, making yourself the person you want to be. Being a mistress, a secret, used for excitement, I assume, is not the life you envisioned for yourself.
Be strong and good luck.
Dating someone else’s husband is the track to nowhere. Even, if he leaves his wife to be with you…there is a taint on your relationship. Can you ever really trust him? Plus, in my observation when the going gets tough in your relationship with him then he will run back to his ex/soon to be ex, especially if they have kids. He will triangulate the situation and you will become the “evil homewrecker”. So not worth it in the long run. Plus, it gets in the way of you embracing your true destiny.
It breaks my heart to hear that you carried on with a married man. The most UA of them all in my opinion. Being with him screams low self esteem. We have to be careful as women when we decided to sleep with any man. We become attach in ways that can get beyond our control. I agree – No Contact for this cheating assclown. You are only fooling yourself.
He is MARRIED. Cut ALL forms of contact.
Heartache,
My version of your story is just a tamer one. He never promised a future but he’d say things without saying them. He’d imply things. Anything to keep me hanging on. Then he tells me he is married and wants to continue on this so-called friendship with me. Oh, he said he enjoyed “our conversation and my persona, to say the least”. Exact words. Real poetic like. He had a way with words that would melt me through the floor. But it’s all BS! He’d give me ten reasons why he could not call. Work was one of them. And I am positive him going to his wife and letting her know he was going to make a phone call to me just WASN’T GOING TO HAPPEN. He is feeding you bull. Trying to keep you hanging on so he can come to you when HE wants to. When it’s convenient for HIM. To get the attention, whatever. It’s all smoke and mirrors and he will use you if you let him. Piss on him.
I waited for someone once too. He wasn’t in a relationship, to my knowledge at least, but things were pretty difficult on both ends to create a relationship. But I told him that I was confused about what to do, should I move on or wait for him. In my heart I wanted to wait for him and I wanted for him to wait for me too, but I was the only one who actually was consistently holding up my end of the bargain. So one day I told him point blank that if moving on was what I should do or what he wanted me to do that he should tell me. Words I chose very carefully to see if he was actually thinking of my well being, or only of himself…but you know what he said??? OF COURSE HE SAID THAT HE WANTED ME TO WAIT FOR HIM, BECAUSE HE WAS AN ASSHOLE!!! I did, however, cautiously accept his response, but only temporarily until I came to my senses. When the time came for him to put up or shut up, he was all talk no action. And sure, he wanted me to wait for him alright, but not because he had any real inclinations of committing to a relationship, but so he could keep me as an option. If I had listened to my gut, I would have spared myself a lot of pain, anger, and confusion. Had to learn that lesson the hard way, but never again…
It sounds like your gut is telling you that something is seriously wrong here, please please please listen to it. His being upfront and “honest” about being married may be true on its face, but it’s also shaded with lots of deception and manipulation. In adult romantic relationships, most of us like to be monogamous. That means you have his love, and he has yours, nothing more nothing less. He’s telling you that he wants yours, all the while he has his wife’s too. So while he has it coming from two sources at all times, he’s letting you know that he can’t return the favor for you, but stringing you along with words of hope that one day he will? I smell a rat…
With guys like this, there tends to be an alternate explanation that rides closer to the truth that they’ve given you. There are people out there who feel as though they are in bad marriages, but people who are mature, responsible, and rational know that they don’t have to stay there so they get out, or they work on them. It’s time to start asking yourself some uncomfortable questions. Like why are you waiting for THIS man in particular? What does he do for you that another unattached and available man can’t? And if he actually does leave his wife for you, whose to say he wouldn’t do the same thing to you (since he’s comfortable handling things this way)? Hell, it’s time to start asking him some too. Like why a man who is committed to another woman, legally or otherwise, doesn’t handle that situation before attempting to get into another one? Or how could someone who supposedly is so fond of you think that this is all that you deserve? Please don’t let this man continue to use you for his own devices, it’s not fair to you.
Heartache,
Men who are leaving their wives don’t blubber on about their “plans” to leave. They leave. You are not in agood place to start up anything new, least of all getting into OW position with an excuses ridden bullshitting MM.
Hi Heartache Amy,
I’m one of those former OW’s the others are referring to. I played second fiddle for 2 years and it is a heartwrenching, demoralizing situation. I’ve spilled the details all over this blog since December and Natalie and the wonderful folks here helped me out of the OW grave I dug for myself. Natalie has many, many great posts on cheating such as “There’s no Such Thing as an Honest Cheat”. I’d suggest you may want to consider turning your phone off for the weekend (or delete him), go NC, read everthing on this blog regarding cheating, and order Natalie’s books, she has a new edition of Mr. U and the FBG which is totally fabulous. The pain of going NC now will be nothing in comparaison to the pain you experience when you wake up 2 years later and he is still feeding you the same excuses for not leaving his wife. They usually don’t. Why would they if you’ll be there to shag him when he can lie to his wife in order to be with you. Have you read Nat’s recent post “Why Using Casual Releationships as a Backdoor Route to a Relationship is a Deeply Flawed Plan”? OW’s are automatically relegated to the back door and rarely get upgraded to use the front door. I spent two years thumping my head on the back door.
“I’ve only been able to see him a few times, but he’s also backed off on the e-mails and TMs.” Here’s the thing, of course you can only see him when it’s convenient for him. The reason: He’s MARRIED (what a reason is; a cause or an explanation and yes sometimes a justification for something happening”) As one wonderful BR lady told me: What’s he supposed to do, tell his wife, “excuse me I’ve got to call/text/email my mistress or she isn’t going to be there when I need a shag. This’ll only take a second.”
The excuses about why he can’t leave his wife now, how much he desires you, and how much he misses you are excuses to keep you hanging on hoping one day to be the exception to the rule. I hope you will seriously consider not going along with his charade and buying his excuses as well as making up your own excuses. I’m not being judgmental or holier than thou, I did it for two solid years. When I woke up and discovered BR, I felt foolish, angry, and sad too. I’ve been working through those emotions with Natalie’s help and all the brilliant folks who post on BR.
Sorry to hear about…
heartache
cut contact. new church. “I see you in my future” is up there with “I want to be a part of your life” as one of the Top Non-Promises of the Emotionally Unavailable. We have ALL heard it or a minor variation thereof.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN? NOTHING.
Of course he can’t see you, date you, sit next to you in church, introduce you to his family. That’s what married people do with their wife/husband.
And his wife is not an excuse or even a reason. She’s a person who he made a promise to. She has a legal right to expect things from him. You, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) do not.
Amy,
He couldn’t have led you on if he is married! The man belongs to another and is unavailable!
Dear Heartache Amy,
When a man is married, and you know they are married, they are unobtainable, off limits whatever. They have a wife, they took marriage vows and women should not even contemplate being in a relationship whatsoever, never mind the ‘we couldnt help ourselves for falling for each other’, or ‘he is so gorgeous’, or ‘he wants me and he will leave his wife’. That is all BS because 99% of these men are looking for a bit on the side, they will NEVER leave their wife, you will become just the OW until they get tired and it will NEVER lead to anything.
The mere thought of a man cosying up to another woman when he is married, especially if there are children involved, is disgusting behaviour. And any woman who chases, and hooks up with such a man is on a hiding to nothing. Married men are OFF LIMITS!!
Thanks everyone. I feel a little like I’ve received a brow beating from you all, but I guess I deserve it. I honestly don’t know what got into me. Well, I do — I was lonely and feeling bad about myself and I knew this guy a little from church before he laid on the charm. Not that it makes much difference, but I’m technically not his “mistress.” I think I know, deep down, that nothing will come of this “relationship” except pain for me. But, while I really haven’t been in much contact with him over the past few days, I’m still struggling to get over him and let it go. And I tend to overanalyze things and so am truly puzzling over what is going through his mind. I know, I know, why should I waste energy caring, but I really am curious and I really want to stick it to him and let him have it.
“saying “I’ve been really busy” gives the impression that you’re so busy (ya know busier than a world leader) that you haven’t had the time to contact or see them..”
Good point Nat!
Obama IS a world leader, but in spite of being SUPER busy running the country, he still makes time to take Michelle on romantic getaways and vacations! A male friend once told me that if a man truly cares for a woman, he will move heaven and earth to be with her.
‘Nuff said!
“Obama IS a world leader, but in spite of being SUPER busy running the country, he still makes time to take Michelle on romantic getaways and vacations!”
Indeed!!! I am SOOOO stealing this next time I have to hear one of my friends complaining about some idiot who doesn’t know what he has. Thanks for making my day 🙂
You are most welcome Lia 🙂
Yeah, its time not to accept excuses as the buffer he or she uses to get what they want and how they want it, while the bottom line is whatever the excuse for them not giving us a healthy honest relationship is irrevelent… we get the unhealthy relationship by accepting excuses and the healthy one by not accepting anything else. Its like in sales, they can give me a million reasons why they arent buying, I dont need their song and dance, the bottom line is if they dont see value, I’m moving on.
“It’s like in sales, they can give me a million reasons why they arent buying, I dont need their song and dance, the bottom line is if they dont see value, I’m moving on.”
HELLOOOOO!! Tell it Gina! As much as it hurts to let them go, sometimes ya gotta laugh in order to make it through… with that said….
Here’s a great quote by Larry Miller….
“I broke up with someone and she said, “You’ll never find anyone like me again.” And I’m thinking…’I hope not!’…Does anyone end a bad relationship and say, “By the way, do you have a twin?”
Here’s another good one from Miss Piggy…
“Only time can heal a broken heart, just as only time can only heal his broken arms and legs.”
Oh, and before I sign off….
Ladies (and gentlemen), please nod your head in approval if **someone** is still alive today because you couldn’t afford to hire a hit man.
LOL!
LOL Gina, love the hit man part.
LOL oh wow, just read the end of your comment about the hit man while sitting on the couch, and my friends all wondered why I just burst into laughter while we’re watching a drama…sad and funny at the same time, but so true though…
He was the Master of excuses —
A few of his “lame excuses”:
If only you didn’t live so far away (I only lived 15 miles away),
If you didn’t own a house we would have moved in together (we never discussed REALLY moving in),
If only you didn’t work so much (I’m self employed),
If only I was happy with my job (he hated every job he ever had),
If only I was rich (he had a VERY well paying job),
If only ______
I told him the following:
Well, there is NO excuses to be made if you TRULY LOVE & CARE & want to share your life with someone….
You do what is necessary to make things happen….NOT make excuses.
Wow, this is exactly what I needed to read today. You are so right…we need to pay better attention to our excuses because they really do mean something,
Again it is like you are talking about me and my EUM!! I don’t know why I am constantly surprised when I read this blog that I am not alone in this! After an exceptional amount of future faking, the “I’m busy”, my phone was cut off” (and apparently email or any other form of communication in the world, payphones, etc.) excuses started coming every day. One particularily funny (now that I look back with some perspective, not so funny at the time!) conversation towards the “end” (there was no end, he just stopped calling) my long distance EUM offered excuse after excuse why I couldn’t come see him on a paticular weekend. I have no money, I will be busy with work, my kids (more like my “ex”) might need me, the list went on and on. To every excuse I offered a valid reason why it could work – honestly just to play devil’s advocate, I think I realized at the time what was happening. He just kept coming up with more excuses. I outright asked “am I supposed to be taking a hint here?” to which he pretended he didn’t hear, so I let it go, not really wanting to know the answer. Even AFTER this he said he wanted it to work, he is just SOOOO busy…I started referring to him as the busiest guy in the world!
The good news is, I think I am starting to get it, and get over it. Going on 6 weeks no contact and every day gets easier. I amuse myself knowing he is probably just panicked I will one day ask for an explanation, of which I have no intention.
I recently starting dating a surgeon, a specialist, who is available (so far so good) lives in the same city as me (not like the EUM who lives in the US, me in Canada) and he is at a conference this weekend accepting an award for his work, and he has had time to call and text and Facebook me EVERY DAY he has been gone. If he isn’t busier than the carpenter in the US, I will eat my socks, lol! But he finds time for me every day, every single day, even when he is in town and has 20 patients to deal with. He also teaches at the University at night. So, REALLY??? My point being of course that no one is too busy to show interest in someone they actually care about building a relationship with!!! It has been my absolute ephiphany (sp?) after the EUM that it was all avoiding telling me what I am positive was the situation all along, he wasn’t even single to begin with! The ex was not an ex, even…
Surely “I’m really, really busy” must be the Numero Uno Cover-All Excuse from these jerks? Countless BR readers have mentioned it in their comments on many of Natalie’s blogs. If my last ex is to be believed (!), his life is apparently a constant blur of frenzied and exhausting activity – but I can tell you that quite frankly he *literally* has bugger-all to show for it at the end (he is nearly £50,000 in debt on credit cards).
radio
lucky escape. Call me judgemental but I would never get involved with someone £50k in debt. I’ve worked really hard to get my finances in order and I don’t want some bloke coming along and buggering it all up!
You’re well shot of him.
It was indeed a very lucky escape, Grace! Fortunately, the tiny little ember of self-esteem that still flickered in me was (and is) proud that, like you, I’ve worked hard to not only live within my means, stay solvent and pay off the mortgage before I turned 50, but to put away some savings to add to my pension. There’s no way I would ever have given or even lent him any money at all, though I did always pay my way on all our holidays etc. You couldn’t meet two people with such different values in life as he and I had – a major reason why we couldn’t have worked even without his philandering, ego-feeding, harem-collecting ways! His excuse for “The Debt” was that he’d “sqaundered it all on his daughter” – his words, and she was indeed very spoilt. But this was only partly true, as when he went down (by choice) to half-year working he continued living more or less the same extravagant lifestyle he’d enjoyed as a *full-time* pilot on twice the salary. Even though he still earns more in 6 months than I do in a year, and for 25 years of his career earned double that, he doesn’t even have a proper roof over his head and can’t now afford to pay rent (he lives in a holiday cabin he already owned, flouting the site rules about not living in them full-time). I feel sorry for the daughter having him as a dad as he can only be bothered with her when she’s being an amusing “little mate” and trouble-free, but the slightest sign of teenage problems and he’s reluctant to take responsibility for her. And he used her as his final excuse for being so “busy” that he couldn’t spend any time with me at all in the last few weeks of our relationship (she’s 17, has her own car and is perfectly able to be left on her own!). He was not only a Faker to me, but is a Faker to himself and to every single person in his life. A childish, immature Fantasist, and yes I’m well-shot of him!
Wow Natalie, this post and reading the new edition of Mr. U and the FBG really got me digging deep. “Behind every excuse is the real reason.” Every time I heard the excuse that “he was busy”, I bought it because if I didn’t I would have to face my underlying fear of abandonment, fear of neglect, fear of loneliness, and fear of being rejected. If I conveniently came down with a case of relationship amnesia and went along with the excuse de jour, I could continue to get my crack high without having to acknowlegde my underlying fears which was the real reason I paricipated in the myraid of excuses. He didn’t even have to tell me to hurry the eff up and accept his excuses, I was ahead of the game and made excuses for his excuses before he could even offer his excuses so as to avoid my fears. I’ve got a lot of work to do regarding dealing with my underlying fears. It’s hard to distinquish at this point, but I think I have my own internal fears and then I engage in relationships which will trigger those fears.
“People who make excuses aren’t really looking to ‘make sh*t happen’ or find a solution that you can both live with, or even ‘rectify’ or make amends. Excuses are not real reasons; they’re BS ones.” I’m as guilty as he was. I chose men that “reflect and amplify every last damn thing that scares the crap out of you.” That’s precisely what my Mr. Unavailables have represented…”the sum of all your fears and your comfortable uncomfortable zone” (quoting the new edition Mr. U & the FBG.)
Thank you Natalie, I’m finally starting to hit some core issues about me, my fears, and how to break this destructive cycle. (How to Break the Cycle is a great addition to your new edition.) As long as I kept the focus on what a ratbastard he was, I got to avoid my issues. It’s scary dealing with my fears.
PS. I almost emailed the racing car guy with the excuse that I have been busy. I didn’t as I knew it was an excuse because he triggered my fear as he has been consistent, which scared the pants off of me, not literally of course. I’m obviously still too EU to enter the dating pool. It’s so not about him, whoever he is.
Runner,
Thanks for your excellent post. “As long as I kept the focus on what a ratbastard he was, I got to avoid my issues. It’s scary dealing with my fears”. This is where I’m at too right now. Having come a very long way since February in getting over the devastating end with my last (epiphany) ex, I’m more or less left with my own fears and self-esteem issues now. And working on those is proving a *million* times harder than getting over the broken heart, difficult though that has been too. I’m at the stage of sitting in tears at the therapist’s every week when dragging those fears and issues out from under the carpet where I’ve been sweeping them for years. It’s what I call my “squirm-factor” and I still catch myself employing all sorts of excuses (distraction techniques) to avoid having to face up to and own all that stuff. Yes, it certainly is very scary indeed dealing with our own fears. The new “How to Break the Cycle” chapter sounds like a great reason to get the new edition of Mr. U & the FBG (as if I needed any more reasons!).
Radio, if you can, stay with your fears and your self esteem issues. There is no doubt these guys are ratbastards and we can filll our journals with their ratbastardness. Mine is. And we can stay angry at how we allowed them to use us and then came up with our own excuses for continuing. It is is a never ending cycle, until we break it. It is about us. It is about our fears. I’m just barely into facing my fears but I’m starting to see how much I hung on, how many excuses I made for “his” shody ratbastard behavior, in the hope that I wouldn’t have to face me and how many exuses I made for me so I wouldn’t have to face me. I’m a pretty formidable opponent. That opponent is me. Don’t know if this makes any sense.
Runner
“I’m a pretty formidable opponent. That opponent is me. Don’t know if this makes any sense.”
It sure does to me! Thanks for that comment. I am a pretty formidable opponent too; I am beginning to see just how formidable! Cheers runner; really good advice.
Thanks for this, Runner – yes, it makes absolutely perfect sense! We certainly are sometimes our own worst enemies!! It’s hard to come to terms with our excuses in allowing the crappy ratbastardy behaviour, and also in facing our fears right now, without beating ourselves up. It’s a tricky balancing act which feels rather like walking on a tightrope over a very windy ravine with only minimal training beforehand. We just need to remember to stand up straight and tall, trust in ourselves that we *can* do it, and keep looking ahead…
THIS is one of the most insightful, brilliant things I’ve ever read. this paragraph should get a Nobel Prize in Science, for Psychology of Emotionally Unavailable Assclowns, Which All The Self-Help Relationship Books/Experts Have Failed To Explain:
Well guess what? When someone uses an excuse, they’re really saying:
“Look, hurry the eff up and get off my case so I can get my shag / ego stroke / shoulder to lean on / money / perfect image back etc. You perceiving me as wronging/hurting/abusing/whatever you, is setting off my responsibility alarm bells which is setting off my reality alarm bells which is setting off my commitment, expectation, and intimacy alarm bells. The sooner I’m excused, the sooner I can get back to doing what I always do.”
truly stunned after reading. even when the exEUM & I were together “madly in love”, he was always SO busy, was just SO hard for him to balance time (I swear, I used to say, who are you, Barack Obama? head of NATO?). I accepted the excuses, b/c he has kids, works a lot, just got separated. I’ve never been married/no kids, so I justified his “reasons” and told myself *I* was the one with the problem of being too needy. oh yes I did.
he recently got in touch after 6+ months of NC (another story). what makes me think it would be any different, now that we’ve been broken up for well over a year? Natalie knows — of course she does!!
“And when you make excuses for their excuses “I’m telling you…I’m not leaving! You’re the best thing I’ve never had or only had for a short time before the Future Faking ended and I don’t want to let go of the fantasy because then I’d have to see and accept some uncomfortable things and even get out of my comfort zone. You’re gonna love me!” – Note, best read as if singing with Jennifer Hudson’s voice.”
the reality is, from the beginning (heaven), to the ending (hell), to the limbo (still hell) of not being over it, it’s now over the 2 year mark. 2 years without being able to think about another man. wasting precious time I’ll never get back. god knows, I’ve never tried harder to heal from a broken heart. why *this* time is so much harder than any other, I don’t know. I guess I should reset my No Contact Clock, back to Sept 2. I guess allowing him to call, even so long after, and talking, lets him off the hook and thinking he wasn’t a total total a**hole. what do…
Ah the excuses. Back when I was involved with the EUM that I really liked, he’d give me a list of reasons errr excuses as to why he could not call or see me. He had a girlfriend and I had a boyfriend. Slimy on both our parts I know. I learned my lesson there. Now a few years later, he’s emailing me saying he is looking to be friends, that he always enjoyed our conversations bla bla bla. Yet, the conversations feel more than your average friendly “so how are the kids” or “where are you working now”. There has been and always was this undertone of something more. Innuendo. When he came back around this time and I asked point blank if he was involved or married, he admitted he was married. He told me he did not know where he’d be six months from now but currently he is married. Dangling the carrot.
This time I was not a softy and did not fall for it. He wanted my attention, some ego stroke. Maybe the married life or life has him bored. I could feel him trying to use me and this would be no “friendship” where I could call him up and go out for some coffee. That would not fly over well with the wife. It would always be on his timetable. And the reason, which he said it was because of his work schedule, he could not call me this time for a solid week, I know now is because the dude has a freakin wife! And if you’re friends with someone, why are you trying to hide it from your spouse? Anyway, I shot him a quick email back telling him he’s no friend and goodbye. That was the end of that. My rag is wrung out. I saw through his BS lie and excuses. Feel bad for his wife. It feels good to be able to have done that for the first time in my life!!! Even if I liked him, I did not let that blind me from his crap. Now if only I can get that strong enough of a backbone to deal with some of the people I work with that shove stuff off on me.
Good for you!!! I had something similar happen to me with an ex, only I actually had the intention of being friends while he didn’t. And even looking back, while I didn’t want a relationship with him anymore, I loved how close we had always been and wanted to hold onto that. How fun is it to have the rug snatched from under you when you find out that they are either married or in a relationship, and wondering why they didn’t bring that up in earlier conversations? Friends can talk about those things, it may be a bit awkward for exes at first, but I think if both people truly want a friendship in the true sense of the word, it will show. Your ex was either lying to you or lying to himself, just as mine was. They are never going to see or admit to seeing how wrong they are, so it’s up to us to do the right thing…
Hi Lia,
Regardless of him being married or whatnot, we did get on quite well. We did enjoy talking to each other years ago but I had to shut that door because we were both involved. Now he’s married to the girl he was involved with back then and looking me up to, I guess, have those same old “friendly” conversations. I don’t think he expected me to slam the door in his face again but it makes my stomach turn knowing he is married now. And for him to still be making excuses as to why he can’t show up, I had enough. It’s not like he came running for me to marry. He married her regardless of the deep conversations we had and the intimate things we shared.
I’m just not interested, or that desperate anymore, to have his friendship these days if it’s based on being secretive. It’s a flop. He’s a person I could sit with for hours and go on about anything but I give that up because he belongs to someone else. He needs to be talking with her about stuff like that, not me. And I’d only be wrecking my own already bruised up soul by participating in some dodgy thing when he is massively unavailable. This will all pass away and I’m glad I said no.
Color Orange, I have read your past comments and have to say I see some positive growth in you based on your last comment. Although not immediate, the work we do on ourselves does pay off. Good for you for making a strong affirmative choice. We have all been down the road of heartache and some of us are on the winding road of self discovery. It’s good to hear when someone starts rounding the corner.
I agree with Jenny. Isn’t this the guy, Color, you were worried that you had scared off, worried you might have said something wrong when he called and then didn’t call back when he said he would? SO not about you!!
“He told me he did not know where he’d be six months from now but currently he is married.” Oh, yuck. Does his wife know that her husband ‘doesn’t know where he’ll be six months from now’? Ugh.
Magnolia,
Yeah this is the guy that emailed then sent a text asking when he could call. I was worried I had said something wrong. I didn’t. I was blaming myself for nothing. I’m pretty sure his wife didn’t know a thing. If I knew my husband was saying things like that, I’d be so hurt. I suspect that is the case because, while he said he could not call based on his work schedule, he was more than likely trying to find a time when his wife was not around so he could call. Which is a red flag. If you’re calling a friend, why hide it from the spouse. It was a solid week after he text me that he emailed telling me why he could not call (work related) and that is when I finally asked if he was married.
It still stinks. But, really, having intimate conversation with a married man does not sit well with me. I know of people that can do that, BUT NOT ME! I’m sure it was bantering for him and I wanted it to mean more but the bantering stuff is not my thing. It’s an emotional affair. He’ll have to move on down the line and hit up some other unfortunate woman to shower him with words and attention.
You are right colour orange, if someone really wants to be your friend they are open about it. When its kept below the radar off wife or girlfriend then its not a true friendship.
The asshole I have been allowing to sqat on my life, calls me at 12:30 last wednesday after 30 something texts then talks for two and a half hours..same guy who I am not allowed to call after 5pm. It made me laugh me ass off when three days later he tells me that he would like to say “goodbye to a part of himself” and had no word from him since. Friends don’t do that, but its made me laugh to see hoe truely hollow some people’s actions truely are.
My ex EUM had a long list of excuses, and I always aired that I never felt like a priority or special anymore.
Long story short, I finished University in the summer, he made my final year exams hellish with his drama and I caught a bad case of UTI which I was on antibiotics for, I was not sleeping and I was finding it hard to concentrate and him ontop made it a whole lot worse. I remember 2 days before my final exam he was supposed to come to mine and see me in the evening knowing how ill I was and that I told him I “Needed him and his support” and I was incredibly anxious about it all. The day before he was supposed to see me I noticed him commenting on others fb walls talking about a night out (same night he was supposed to see me). So i casually sent a text saying “Im really looking forward to seeing you tomorrow night” and he replied with ” oh about that, I have to go out for drinks with Uni friends and we had it planned before I made plans with you but I completely forgot” and I said “so when were you going to tell me this” and he replied “I didnt know how to, though I was going to”. We had a huge row (over txt because that was his way of rowing all the time) and I just lost it, ontop of being ill I was even sick the morning of my last exam (probably due to anxiety). My graduation came around and for weeks I had been saying how Im lonely in Brighton (I had stayed for him and all my friends and family were back in London) and he came up with “I have to work full time at the bar in the evenings and weekends and I have to play football 4 times a week, nothings changed Steph all thats changed is your working now” errr yeah thats exactly whats changed I cant fit round your schedule anymore. My graduation he made hell and sent me a sarcy message saying “good luck today, dont really know what its about but good luck anyway”. After that weekend because of all the stress he put me under I told him to go “f@ck himself” and as soon as I’d calmed down I felt terrible! I was begging him saying please dont leave me I know this is worth fighting for, and he would say hes unsure because I treated him with disrespect, and I fell like putty in his hands promising him I would never disrespect him again….well 2 days later I ended it (personally I felt like I had no other option) and Ive gone through hell since.
When you feel like texting him turn off your phone and GO FOR A WALK. Or something that removes you from the situation.
This is something I’ve tried and the feeling soon passes.
As I think you know you need to get rid of him and go NC
The thing is im alone in Brighton, I have no family here and no solid friends. Incredibly lonely, and Ive just moved in to a house with a couple of other girls but they seem to be having lives of their own. Im petrified that Im going to run into him every day because he lives here. I feel like Brighton is his and I dont belong here.
stephanie
I do understand the need to cling onto someone because it’s all you have. I did the same when I moved to London and knew no-one except my ex. But there is a position worse than being all alone. And that’s being all alone and chasing an ex. I’d rather rot than go through that again. Since I gave him up I’ve made more friends. He’s not the solution to your problem, he’s a major cause of it.
hanging onto him is, in a way, YOUR excuse not to extend yourself and meet other people. I think most normal people find it hard to make friends when they move somewhere new. Accept that and make an effort anyway. Even if it’s just the reading group at the library.
Oh thank you Grace 🙂 Im finding it impossibly difficult at the moment and I need to know that its a mind over matter thing. I so desperately want to be over him and stop this loneliness I’m feeling. I hate that he is the only thing I feel I have here, when he mistreated me. I dont know how Im going to do this I really dont
Steph for what it’s worth I have been in the town I’m in now for four years and only this past year have I really felt like my new friendships that I’ve made here are deep and will last. I’ve taken a lot of comfort from knowing it does take time to get to know new people.
My ex used me to cushion his move to a new town. He had me as his ‘fallback’ for all the relationship building he did in the year that he came and by the time I turfed the relationship he was much more comfortable in this town. Meanwhile, I’d been neglecting my own opportunities to strengthen relationships and stalled on getting myself established here.
Congratulations on finishing university. If there’s nothing tying you to Brighton, could you head back to London? So many options await you!
Gosh Stephanie, your story reminds me of what I went through with an ex in my late teens and early twenties. I was in the hospital for a surgery and the only person that was there was my mom. Which was comforting but I wanted my pothead boyfriend to be there. I called his house and asked if he’d come see me. He had to smoke a joint first. So he came in to see me for a good maybe 5 minutes….stoned…. then he was out. I cried and cried and cried. I felt so alone, so unsupported, so uncared for. The anxiety was a constant. And I would always go back to the sorry schmuck. He had me right where he wanted me, even when I blew up and threw fits, he’d pull some crap that I dissed him. He’d go a solid week without seeing me because he wanted to be with his “friends”. When in reality he was the one being completely disrespectful to me. And I was this puppet on a string. He’d smoke pot and say it was my fault. If I hadn’t done this, he wouldn’t have done that.
In college I briefly dated another guy. I was so wrapped up in him, I failed a class. That is permanently on my school record now and I get disgusted with myself when I think about what I put myself through over a GUY. It was like I just kept dating my dad over and over again. Unavailable. Self-absorbed. Me me me me me me. Clueless. I’m thinking I’ve hit a good amount of clarity lately and I hope you do real soon. I was in Brighton last year and I sat on the beautiful beach for a good hour. I’m sure it’s pretty cold there now but if I were there I’d take a long walk by the shore. Then I’d catch a train back to London.
Wow the anxiety feeling is exactly what I had in the last several weeks of being with him. Definitely the right word to describe how you feel when your with these men. Thank you for your response colororange, it sometimes hurts just to feel like you were so low down on their list of priorities, and although I ended it i feel like I was the one who was dumped….as odd as that sounds…
Stephanie, without going into details, as it’d be way off topic and I have no good excuse!… I had similar experience in my 20s and I had bought a flat in “his” town. I left it empty and went home to stay at my mum and dad’s again until I could sell it – that took four years and I got buttons for it. One of the most miserable times of my life. I have only one piece of advice: Go home. You need to be around people who care about you (if you possibly can)
I would like to go home but I have this job here till January and I like it. And one part of me feels like he is still controlling me here being in “his city” but on the flip side I feel like I’ll be damned if I let him make me leave this job that I like. Its so hard to know what to do because I feel constantly anxious about it all. I’m so annoyed at myself for letting someone control me so much. It isn’t healthy. I will say though without any doubt that I will not go back to him, I’ve realised now that’s its more a controlling feeling that’s making me anxious rather then a loving feeling. The last time we spoke was 2 weeks ago and I hope that is the last time I EVER speak to him. Thank you all 🙂
My busy, busy dad. He always had, and still has, any number of reasons/excuses not to see his kids. I gave up “chasing” him a long time ago, and then had to unlearn that mode of relating — the one-sided thing was what felt normal. If I see it now, and it usually shows up in the early stages (fortunately), I’m out.
Or “Look, can you hurry the eff up and get off my back because I’m only offering up this feeble justification for what I’ve said/done or failed to say/do because the real reason doesn’t sound too great when said out loud and may invite conflict, plus if I gave you the real reason, it would put me in the position of actually having to do something.”
One conversation I had with the ex eum was about me pulling him up on texting me instead of calling me back. His excuse was he wasn’t talking to anyone outside his family. He then went on to tell me all the social things he had arranged and gone to.
I pointed out two things one by the time he had texted me he could have called me and told me the exact same thing he had texted and two thats a lot of socialising for someone only speaking to family because you are so down. He then paused and said yes it was gutless of me. How very big of him and thank goodness I’m rid of him at long last.
His excuse when telling about his cheating was equally pathetic.
He was feeling down about his mother feeling unwell and a female friend happened to drop by and she left only to drop by later with gifts a book that may help his mother and a plant to cheer him up. I hugged her to say thank you and one thing led to another I needed comfort I was very upset about my mother.
I have heard the “I am busy” approxiamately 50 million times. Unfortunately I always excused this excuse. Don’t know why
his work was sporadic, he has no kids, no ex wives, a small family.
I’m guessing now he was busy navel gazing or gaining comfort from a friend.
LoL Tulipa,
I think “I’m busy” is a staple in this world of excuses. I have dated a few guys I can think of right off hand that used that same phrase with me. Drove me nuts! I felt like screaming at them “why can’t you tell me the REAL reason?!?” It’s like they don’t want to come off as jerks even though that makes them come off as jerks! As Nat says, no one is that busy! If I don’t call/text/write/whatever someone, it is not always because I am busy. It’s because I don’t want to.
Reasons come with solutions. Excuses come with NO solutions. Sounds about right to me (or is this too simple a summary? probably not.).
Spinster. I think that’s about right – that’s the main message for me. I know when I’m making excuses for myself when I have no solution, just a never ending “problem”, and when someone else is churning out an endless stream of excuses to me it’s because they are not interested in a solution; they want the status quo whether they are admitting that to themselves or not.
My EUM was ‘too busy’ all the time. I knew he was a workaholic and he worked hard, so I made excuses for his excuse by excusing him on the grounds that he must actually be very very very busy! Poor man. And of course his time was way more valuable than mine. There was never ANY suggestion that he should stop being so busy and make more time for us. Never. Ten years of “too busy”. No solution. Except the obvious one, which I should have seen as the ‘reason behind the excuse’ instead I piled my excuses for him on top of his excuses for him in order to avoid what really needed to be taken on board: if you’re “too busy” for a relationship with me and are unwilling to find a solution – then you are “too busy” for (aka too disinterested in) a relationship with me, so goodbye. ta-ra. farewell.
To this day, I still can’t work out how the hell my ex is always “so, so busy”. He only works for the airline part-time – one month on, one month off. He doesn’t have any other employment. What on earth keeps him so busy during his “off” months and his other days off is beyond me. One thing I do know about excuses, though, after the way he showed such utter disregard for my feelings – he is one big sorry excuse for a human being.
Radio, there’s nothing to work out about what they are busy doing (they are busy doing whatever it is that they fancy doing, and it’s not spending time with us, obviously). I always thought it was his way of managing my expectations (though I didn’t know the BR lingo at the time). If he says he’s too busy it means you and his relationship with you are not a priority and he doesn’t want you to get beyond yourself; he has other things he’d prefer to be doing, like clipping his toenails and maybe picking his nose.
Radio and everyone else involved with Mr. Busy
He’s not busy, he’s making excuses.
I have a friend who gets obnoxious when she’s drunk. Have I told her that’s why I keep blowing her off when she asks me out? Of course not. I just tell her “I’m busy” or “have other plans” . I COULD tell her “You’re obnoxious, aggressive and rude when you’re drunk.” But I would feel bad saying that.
Your part-time pilot would feel bad saying “Radio, I just don’t want to spend that much time with you. You might start thinking that we are in a proper relationship and we’re not. Besides, all I’m really interested in is sex and some attention. The rest of the time, I’d prefer you to be in your little box and not bother me”. Who’s going to say that?
Good, Fearless. Glad that my guess was spot on. 🙂
I HATE excuses! Over everything. Usually, they’re just a way to avoid giving an apology. I mean, what’s wrong with just saying a simple sorry. I know reasons make some people feel better (like how they now announce on the plane WHY it is you’re waiting), but it has to be a reason they take responsibility for. Otherwise, it’s just a lame excuse.
Heartache Amy
MM eqals double heartbreak Amy. If he was any kind of decent man he would of left his Wife, got his shit together and then met someone . You can listen to his BS excuses all you want but in the cold light of day he is not a nice man and you will end up hurt. There are plenty of women on here that have been the OW and it never ended in them skipping off into the sunset together. Why would you want a man who belongs to someone else? As a lady who has been cheated on it is a horrible place to be in. Think of her and ask yourself why do you wan this man?. It is up to you however i dont think this will end up the way you want it to as he will probably never leave her. Why set yourself for more heartbreak?
The best excuse l´ve got is: “l had to marry her because l thought l´d lost you.”
that excuse Ria is truely pathetic but I feel sorry for the poor wife who is second best. What a disrespectful looser!
umi
sounds like every woman would be second place .. to his giant festering ego.
I got cancelled for a first date with ‘a friend from out of town came unexpectedly’. That’s an oldie! I didn’t even bother to reply. Moving on.
Natalie, After reading your blog for some time and recognizing myself and my relationship I finally did bite the bullet. “Suck up and see” You helped me to achieve the NC longer than I had ever done in the 13 years I was with him. I was fooling myself into believing that I was the “exception” with this EUM and yes that is what he is. I made so many excuses for him and accepted his excuses. I kept hanging on to the fact that I had good middle years with him and he “dug deep for me” Tried hard to make me happy and that he could again. As soon as I met him again he said all the right words. He told me how I was the love of his life and he wanted to be with me again blah blah blah But something was wrong. I felt dread, anxiety, sleeplessness again. It was like my body was screaming “don’t do this” I finally bit the bullet and downloaded your book. Mr Unavailable. I can’t stop reading it and recognizing my eum and myself in so many aspects. The training, inconsistency to control, lack of empathy, highs and lows, his time being more important than mine….I could go on and on. There are times I had to stop and just absorb since I am in a bit of shock that I could love such a person for so long but I understand that better now. Nat you are amazing and how you hit on things was mind boggling. I am done. I have to figure out a way to have some closure since the last year it has been me letting him think we will go back and then cutting him off at the first sign of his dysfunction and inconsistency. The last time I cut him off was without explanation. I do think he deserves some kind of explanation as he was good to me in his own sick way but I know I cannot do this anymore at this stage of my life. I want peace and that will NEVER happen with him. I will never trust “us” again and I will never feel safe or nurtured with this man. I just want to thank you for finally giving me clarity. I cannot be even friends with this man. He is so toxic to me and I am totally over his games and narcissism. I am even finally turned off to him and the “amazing sex” pull is fading. Thank You and all these amazing women on here that helped to give me the clarity I needed.
Beth
Glad you cut him off. Don’t ever go back to give him an explanation unless you want to hear:
“You’re over-reacting”
“I’m really a good guy”
“huh?”
If he doesn’t know why you cut him off he’s an idiot and it would be pointless explaining it to him. And even the best person doesn’t like to be criticised, however constructively. After all, we’re not their boss doing a performance review. Stay away from him and the need to explain anything to him will pass.
What amazes me is why someone would give excuses that they “have no time for a girlfriend,” “are never home” and are incredibly “busy with work” but keep a profile on dating websites??? Can someone shed some light on this craziness? Typical AC/EU behavior of refusal to commit?
Too busy for a girlfriend doesn’t mean too busy for sex. It means, “not interested in responsibility but looking for fun”. If someone says they are too busy for a relationship…..they are saying they don’t want one. I don’t see dating sites as a big pool for relationship potential, I see it as lots of hook up possibilities.
My ex has plenty of dating profiles on the internet. He is in a relationship as well. However he told me that he felt he needed to “feel alive” which is I gues just another way to say that he is using relationships to create “excitement” and its blows you away in a bad way to think that someone needs the “hit” meeting other women to feel alive. I asked him..”you seeing anyone else apart from your girlfriend right now” His straight up answer was” I am not but I would if I could” and internet profiles are just one way of widening his search for a bit of extra curricular. He was very honest about it and I guess when someone makes clear that they are prepared to just use people for “fun” and an “excitement hit”, you realise just how much bullshit you have eaten in order not to see someone really as they are and you are being used. I still catch myself thinking..”he’s such a great guy|”, but then he was at one point, but then I remember the difficulties and I am so happy its over.
Blueberry you asked
-is this typical Eu behaviour…
its typical asshole behaviour!
My ex was “heartbroken” when I cut him loose– he apologized for not being able to pay more attention to my needs, told me he was in love with me and saw us moving in together, admitted that he was messed up due to unresolved stuff with his ex and kids, insisted that he would be “ready” in just a few weeks/months/etc. if I could only be patient and understanding…
a week after I told him to stop calling he had put himself back online. I don’t know for sure but I imagine he’s just going to find someone else, tell them a bunch of BS, and then fail to deliver until (if ever) he actually is honest with himself, stops making excuses, and addresses his issues. These men NEED someone so badly to boost up their egos, give them support, listen to their problems, sex them etc. that it doesn’t even matter or occur to them that there is a living breathing human being on the other side of all this. They don’t want to look at the real reasons they’re not available, it’s too uncomfortable, so they end up using other people as a smokescreen. To be fair, we are often doing our own version of this dance…
blueberry
because it doesn’t take that much time or effort to keep up a dating profile, send a few texts/emails, and hook up/shag/
Blueberry,
It is about attention and the ego.
If he’s stringing you along with those excuses while keeping up on a dating site then YES, typical AC behaviour! He’s got you wrapped around his little finger if you’re with someone doing that. Especially if you confront him about (thinking you’re being proactive). He’ll probably fob you off with an “Oh, I don’t even check it” or somesuch. Sorry to say but it looks like he’s out for what he can get, most likely casual sex (which is what some EUMs unfortunately use dating sites for!)
I heard these lyrics the other day and thought, huh, Kardinal Offishial wrote what is on the mind of so many of these dudes we talk about here. Only in his song, of course, he’s proud of it.
http://www.metrolyrics.com/numba-1-lyrics-kardinal-offishall.html
I also hate it when they tell you something like “I’m going to be busy with work this next few weeks” as a way of letting you know they can’t see you. Then you log on the dating site several different times over that same time period, and lo and behold guess who’s online too??
Yep, that used to drive me mad: the big moan about how much he’s got to get through work-wise; how close all the deadlines for this and that project / publication are getting, all how he is:
“going have to work solid, I mean solid, I mean night and day, for the whole of July/all over Christmas / right through to February / for the next x number of weeks or months (forever, basically); I know I shouldn’t take on all this work; I am going to really start cutting back and saying ‘no’; but I’ve taken it on now; I don’t know how I’m going to get through it all – it’s going to be a nightmare – I’ll end up making myself ill; it’s so stressful. But hey, I can do it if I just work constantly every day and every night for the next x weeks/month”
I heard that record about 5 million times. Bigger fool me.
And it would to really piss me off; what I heard was:
“don’t expect me to have time for you for the forseeable future; I am giving you fair warning of that…oh, and I expect you now to sympathise with me and all the work I have piled up to do and all my stresses and when you’ve done that you can go sit on the back burner until I feel like having my willy pulled again.”
I am the mug who did this translation in my head and then went off to sit on the back burner!
I knew what the underlying communication was and I made excuses for these excuses. When he’d say this stuff it made me feel sick; I wanted to cry my eyes out cos I knew I wouldn’t be seeing him for ages; I also wanted to smack him on the face! Then I think I would confuse the wanting to cry about not seeing him for ages with the actual ‘translation’ of what was really being said. I was always unsure of what it was I was upset about (the translation or the not going to see him for ages)… I’d then think I need to stop being upset about that cos it’s probably just me being ‘needy’; I want to see him more and he doesn’t. Weird. Sorry if not making sense.
Eventually it didn’t make me want to cry; it juts made me very very angry and I’d make almost no response to the latest big moan about how he was now about to to be very, very busy. Ended up he got no sympathy from me; I’d just ‘look’ at a him and tell him I know how you feel, I am really swamped at work too. And eventually him not being around cos he was “too busy” was just ‘normal’. I came not to expect anything less!
I totally get what you mean. There is a feeling of emptiness this treatment produces, especially when it comes after sex or at least a good amount of emotional intimacy.
In my case it was a nice date followed by a hookup, then me saying I’d like to get together again and getting some noncommital answer, followed by “let’s see about late next week”. That time rolls around and I have to be the one to send the text message, which they pretend not to have noticed until I also message them on the dating site I have already seen them on for like the fifth or sixth time. The response is “hey I arranged to do this totally voluntary thing with someone else during the exact time I said we might meet but hey I do have your number so…”
Fortunately at that point I moved on, it was just such a slap in the face I couldn’t help but opt out.
BR has helped me see the dynamics involved. The excuse making and pedestal putting – this person is so good looking and busy, and I feel like I am not, so I have to sit here and take what I can get.
The emptiness went away once I filled it with something else – myself.
fearless
makes total sense. It was my relationship with the player. I know I’d never put up with it now in my current stage of life. We live and learn.
Yes. Grace. Thanks. And thanks too Intuitive – you are very right about the feeling of emptiness it produces. I often wonder if he knew how it made me feel – cos it would just all roll off his tongue so effortlessly like someone babbling about how they have to tackle the over-grown grass at the weekend.
A lot of my problem was (maybe still is) the “normality” he would project while he went about breaking my heart. He wasn’t making “excuses”, if you know what I mean, like not being apologetic about all his work and how busy he was – not at all! – and never any hint of there being anything untoward or even odd about what he was telling me… I mean, on the face of it there’s not anything odd about it, like someone telling you they need to tackle the garden at the weekend it’s not odd; it’s not an excuse or a regret – it just is. So because it is said and presented so (seemingly) benignly I was confused about why it made me feel sick and wanting to cry… I mean I don’t feel sick when someone tells me they need to tackle the garden – so I blamed me for what I thought might be disproportionate emotional reaction and would often sit there after he’d left thinking, “is it me?”
And yes Grace, I may be in a state of mystification about a lot of things right now and I have not found my feet yet at all, but I know for sure I would not put up with that again. God please, no.
Yeah, I got that too, Fearless. Now we can and do know from experience that whenever we’re making two sources of hurt (in your case the translation and the sadness about being abandoned) cancel each other out (when, in fact, you can be upset about two or more things at once!) or when we’re characterising entry-level stuff as our ‘neediness’, it’s time to state your case to them, watch and evaluate their response, then ACT on it.
I had to talk to new man last week about how his management of his work and our relationship can make me feel, at times, as if I have less autonomy than he does. Anyway, it was so much easier to handle this conversation backed up with the genuine feeling of being ready for any response for him (including, ‘bad luck, this is me’ crap). As it turned out, he validated how I felt and has been noticeably more considerate since then. It was actually a conversation that made us closer.
Of course, I have in my mind that I can’t be his relationship trainer, so there is a limit to how many of these sorts of conversations I’d be willing to have (and certainly if I have to repeat themes over and over, I am out!), but it’s also unrealistic to think – as I concluded for some time after the AC – that you when you’ve only just met someone, you can sit back, not make your needs known, and then flush them if they’re not reading your mind (which, ironically, was what the AC did with me). New man actually had quite a different take on some of the things I raised, which was useful and reassuring to hear.
But, overall, it’s all about getting your own house in order, and then attracting someone to that place. You have to be stable (from many sources of joy and support) to have a happy relationship. It seems so obvious, but it’s only becomes truly clear when you see it for yourself.
Fearless, I just recieved an email from my best girlfriend of 8 years which I’ve pasted the relevant excerpt below. I’m not kidding, she sent it last night. Her email about how busy she is was prompted when I attempted to enforce some boundaries regarding the fact I wouldn’t drop everything at the last moment and hang out with her because she had “some time”.
She wrote last night:
“I am incredibly busy right now.
Packing a house
Finding a house
Selling a house under rotten circumstances
Making Moving plans
Packing and moving an office
Ending a career at SC with paperwork and meetings
Starting a career at COC with paperwork and meetings
Teaching my own classes that end the day before I resign
Writing an accred progress report, due the last day of my work at SC
I will be busy until after our move.”
Of course, I haven’t responded because she is ‘busy’. Her email and your post reminded me of many evenings with the exMM when he spent the entire evening explaining to me in graphic detail how busy he was, just like this email. On one evening, I got so bored of listening to how busy he was going to be, I showed him to the door, full belly, but sans a shag. Clearly, if he was that busy, he didn’t have time for a shag, right? Don’t feel alone in being the mug that went off to sit on the back burner. I was there too.
When I made my boundary list, being single is clearly number one. Being “too busy” is number two. Too busy for what? Seems these UA’s are never too busy for a shag long as it fits their schedule. Seems as a FBG, I was too willing to jump on the back burner and get burned time and time again. Just makes me roll my eyes like my teen daughter used to do.
BTW, race car guy called today, just like he said he would. We chatted about football, basketball, flying, kids, and teaching. There was not one mention of how busy he is or how busy I am.
Nobody who is interested in a relationship is too busy for a relationship, point blank.
Thanks elle and runner. Runner, I had to laugh cos I did feel really sorry for your pal with all that on her plate! But what a bore for her to list it all, as if you wouldn’t believe her ‘busy’ excuse unless she showed you the evidence.
And yes, that list sounded just like my EUM! I guess he was showing me the evidence, but I never asked him for it – it was offered willingly and unprompted – a pre-emptive measure. I was remarkably uncomplaining while he stamped all over my heart.
blueberry girl:
That’s probably my “favorite” excuse of all of the excuses that they use – “I’m too busy”. Please. You, Mr. Busy, are NOT that special and you are NOT the only one who has things to do. In my opinion, that excuse is extremely disrespectful to the person(s) whom the excuse is being used on because Mr. Busy is basically saying “You’re not as important as I am, so you wouldn’t understand why I’m just SO busy.” as if no one else but him has anything else to do every day.
I briefly talked to a man over 3 years ago (I’ve mentioned him on here once or twice) who used 2 excuses: “I’m too busy” and “I don’t do titles (girlfriend, etc.)”. He was cool but I didn’t take him seriously because of those very excuses. When he told me that he’d be “busy” with work from May – August, I said “Okay” and went along my merry way with no explanation.
It’s good to know that I got ONE thing right from Baggage Reclaim before I even discovered it. 🙂
@ Spinster “Please. You, Mr. Busy, are NOT that special and you are NOT the only one who has things to do.”
LOL Really! People running countries, major corporations and their own businesses all seem to find time to nurture relationships. I know that if this dude were truly interested, he would find time in his oh-so-busy life (as a 36-year-old divorcee living with his mom) to fit me in. FLUSH!
Another great article and very true. This also can be applied to other relationships like friendships as well. I wrote on my blog yesterday about how people stay in “other” relationships longer than they should. Any relationship that is unbalanced and/or unhealthy needs to be addressed and possibly eliminated if need be.
Heartache Amy,
Just try to remember that the more time and energy you waste on this guy, the longer it will take you to become available to allow better things and people in your life. You know that this can’t work and that he’s using you. Maybe it also helps to think of it this way: if this guy actually leaves his wife and is at some point single and available/worthy of a relationship, then you can give him a shot at that point. But you know what the situation is right now and what you have to do. Occupy yourself with things and people who you enjoy and that are good for you, and it will get easier day by day.
Alexa,
I know you’re absolutely right. My mother is being treated for cancer right now, and I’m about to begin divorce proceedings, and I know I’m not in a place to be in a relationship right now. The thing is, I really like this guy (except for what he’s doing for me). I’m so unhappy with myself for falling into this trap. I guess, on top of the other stresses and sadness in my life, I’m feeling lonely for some romantic attention and I’ve settled for these pathetic crumbs that he’s thrown my way. Right now, I honestly feel that I’m not going to meet a decent guy. I have no desire to go on an internet dating site. My friends don’t really know any eligible single guys for me. I’ll be turning 47 this week and I’m feeling like I’m doomed to be alone the rest of my life — either that, or I’ll have to settle for someone just for companionship. With this guy, we have great talks, we share the same sense of humor, I’m attracted to him…and yet, he’s unavailable. He pursued me…and I don’t know why. Emotionally, right now, I don’t have a whole lot of strength to call him on it. I’ve tried and of course, he’s denied that his feelings for me have changed. I don’t feel good about myself right now. But I thank you all for the advice. I helps to read the articles and postings — at least I know that others have been there, done that and moved on!
Heartache
If you can attract this guy, you can attract another. There’s nothing wrong with “settling” for companionship. It’s not chopped liver. What IS worthless is crumbs from a married man. Our values are out of whack when we think these crumbs are better than companionship.
You can’t call him on it. The second you reciprocated you became an accomplice/accessory (for want of a better word). It’s like robbing a bank and getting angry because a gang member ran off with the money. You weren’t robbed – the bank was. You were both in the wrong and the best you can do is walk away, not try to get him to validate you. I’ve been around and around this with a MM (as in my previous comment to you) and there is no dignified exit other than to walk away. Everything else is just shovelling crap and trying to find a speck of gold. There is no gold.
The more crap you shovel the crappier you will feel. Work very very hard to cut the tie.
As far as excuses go, what does it mean if a guy says he’s “just not in a good place right now” and that he “may talk to [me] and discuss things sometime in the future”?
I mean I know it means he doesn’t want to be with me, but what is going on behind that excuse? Nothing big happened before he said it, he was just really distant and then finally said this after he hadn’t been in touch for two months.
Lavender,
don’t grasp on to the “right now” part. He means “forever”. I heard this kind crap load of times from the EUM – maybe later I’ll talk to you about this…. he’s palming you off.
You answered your own question – what’s going on behind it is that he does not want to be with you; don’t wait for him to change his mind or reward him with Lavender “goodies” for rejecting you in the hope that he’ll change his mind. Just hear what he’s saying; don’t make excuses for his excuses – accept it. If I’d done that years ago my life might be very different now.
My guess is that he means something like this: “I’m not really interested in you, but I don’t want to tell you that. I don’t want to deal with your anger and hurt, and hey, why burn my bridges. I still might want you sometime as an option for sex or an ego boost, if someone better is not available.
You deserve better than this. Forget him and find someone who is “in a better place” and wants to talk to you now.
Lavender,
it means he’s not interested, it’s that simple. Someone who is not in touch with you for two months, means they are not intersted in you romantically. Don’t waste your time trying to fathom their dumb ass excuses! There are plenty of people with so called “issues” that face those issues and still manage to have relationships with other people. Maybe there is a real reason..but you know what surely that sort of behaviour doesn’t suit you whatever the reason so press the eject button , delete his number and get on with your life.
lavender
he doesn’t want to be with you but would like you to be on standby should he change his mind, or require a shag, ego stroke or shoulder to lean on.
Thanks everyone for your advice, I really appreciate it and it’s so true. His reason is really obvious I know, but still I find it really hurtful. It makes me feel like I am worth nothing. =(
Actually he puts a lot of things off into the future. For example, if he hurts me, he will say “one day I will tell you just how wrong you were about that,” and I think – why not now? I don’t understand why he can’t say it now and why he says he will tell me in the future.
Or once he was cruel to me and he says “one day I will tell you just how much you misinterpreted that.” =( Why one day? Why not today and now?
lavender
A better why would be, “why do I need this lying, excuse-spewing man’s approval?”
@Lavender
At this rate (and upon finding him in bed, naked, suckling on a woman’s nipple):
‘One day, I will tell you just how very paranoid you were about that’
I hope you’ll be long gone before then..
Hey Lavender,
You are worth something, and don’t let this AC make you think that you are not. These are all just excuses to keep you on the hook even though he doesn’t want you (which is great for you, because you certainly don’t want someone like him!!). This is not about you this is about him. He is the non-worthy one, and I hope that you cut your ties and don’t waste another second on this a-hole. I had one like that – always saying “someday you will figure it out”…the only thing I figured out was that I wasted a whole ton of time waiting for something that was not worth it in the first place. Good luck!
It’s hard to learn how to stop making and accepting excuses. To stop means making a decision that might involve change, letting go of someone or even being alone. Short term loss for long term gain is a hard concept to act on because we are used to acting on what we are feeling now, not on what we could be feeling later. The idea of feeling good later is hard to grasp when you are feeling like shit in the moment and looking for any relief you can find. It’s denial on top of excuses. Then more excuses to foster your denial, to avoid pain which you are actively cultivating by making and accepting excuses. That was the most ridiculous cycle I have ever been in when the reality was all I had to do was make one decision to opt out and it would of all been over…..why is it so much easier to be destructive to our own life? To avoid pain? It is what we are used to. Looking out for myself emotionally and living in reality instead of avoidance has been like learning to write with my left hand while blindfolded when I am right handed. The progress is that I can look back ( the blindfold is slowly slipping away) and see the cycle and to question myself when I am about to fall off the wagon.
This really helped, because Im having an awful time trying to see how NC right now will help me long term. I woke up at 5am and found myself very close to calling my ex EUM…so close! but I didnt. I feel very alone and im praying that with time and perseverance I will somehow feel better about all this. Hes my first love so I hear from people its the worst and its a new pain youve never experienced before….but they do say you WILL get over it. I just hope this is true
I made dinner for my bf his favorite , was going to have dinner with him that Saturday night . On the way to his house I called him to let him know I was on my way, he asked if I was bringing dessert I told him I did not have a chance to go get it that day he asked me if I could stop on the way and get us dessert. I told him I would go straight to his place and if he could just run out and get it cause the pastry store was 4 blocks from his house. He said he just got home and was tired from doing so much that day and he just settled in. I told him okay no problem . The next day I found out that Saturday afternoon he was over his ex doing what he should not be doing cheating on me again. He did it before and I left him he told me at that time it was a mistake and he loved me and he said he felt lonely and she is a friend to talk to but she wants more from him and it just happens . I went back to him, I thought he would not do it again, but I was wrong. I am NC 6 weeks. It is hard I miss him in my heart but I can not understand him doing something that would hurt me so much.
Why would he risk me leaving for good? or does he think I would be disrespected and keep going on in this relationship?
Maryann
You’re right. He doesn’t respect you and doesn’t respect normal standards of behaviour. That’s how he’s able to hurt you. He doesn’t care that much.
As for “losing you”, I’m afraid that what he thinks isn’t what you think. He’s not valuing your love or dedication or your faith in him. To him, it’s just a ticket for him to treat you how he pleases and you’ll be back (which you were). He doesn’t value what you value. To need an explanation from him is to give him all the power. You’re waiting for the explanation before you will allow yourself to move on. When you get that explanation you’ll want a better one. He can’t help you, you have to help yourself.
grace
Thank you for your words to me. I told him the following when I broke up with him: I love me…I respect me…I value me….
It has been 6 weeks NC. It hurts to leave a relationship of 6 years but
I know I had to for me. I just hope time will heal these wounds in my inside, my heart aches.
Blueberry Girl – the Answer to your question is simple – “because they can” they can post on a website…get instant gratification…lie..imply…and get laid with out any repercussions. And UNTIL women and men spend more time getting to know someone – this endless cycle of use and abuse will continue. Sadly, many people don’t even think someone will be soo cruel and use them over and over again. They do – They will and the internet is the perfect storm for these “sexual predators!” You want to stop the madness – Don’t sleep with strangers…spend time getting to really know someone and the odds will be diminished Greatly!!! This site spells it all out for you – and then some.
Thank you Nat for this article. A restless night and a break of my self imposed NC (never keeping my phone near me while I sleep again!), and I woke up to realise… that the EUM I’ve been entangled with for the past year or so is just a projection. I want a happy relationship and have been steeped in something that made me unhappy. My EUM is full of excuses, I don’t enjoy his company all that much and… you know what? I think he’s a bit boring and while I like him I’ve been bending over backwards for somebody who only has the time for me every couple of weeks!
And I realised that it’s because of the real reason behind the excuses he’d ply me with (always with the sorrys! I’m busy, blah blah blah). I thought about things last night and I figured out that the reason why he put me so low on his list of priorities was because he doesn’t see things as I do. For him it’s casual fun, for me I was bigging him up and thinking that all this investing i was doing was going to pay off one day! Putting in the legwork and saving it all up in the kitty so that cumulatively one day the penny will drop and he’ll REALISE his way into being what I wanted!
As opposed to being an EUM dripping with excuses and only showing his face when it suits. I put him high up on the pedestal because when I looked at the crumbs he gave me, I saw cake. I projected a healthy relationship and a solid future with the man of my dreams on somebody who is not interested in anything more than ego strokes and no strings. I’ve bamboozled myself by looking at him and seeing more than what’s there: somebody wholly uninterested in anyone besides himself. He isn’t going to magic himself into becoming a perfect other half.
And I read this post before I went to bed and I think it swished about in my dreams and my consciousness so that I sleepily discovered what was in my face all along! I’ve been bending over backwards and trying to please and shape and mould him into the perfect relationship, thinking that I was working for long term mutual happiness.
I did break NC foolishly but what’s done is done. I’m trying to stop myself from thinking about him, and not waiting around anymore. I need to break the pedestal and get back into happy Real Life, by myself.
D,
your post resonates a great deal with me. I have been struggling recently. I know it’s over. I know it’s got be over. I know I don’t want to go back. But I don’t feel “done” yet. I feel angry and stuck. I too have had restless nights with it all swiriling about my consciousness.
Last night, whatever was going through my half-asleep head; I felt another door of realisation open and I could see something I had refused to / couldn’t see before. I can’t quite describe it, but it’s something like what you said in your comment and I can put it down to the “excuses” – I saw for the first time another reason behind anothe excuse. It made me think of all the excuses I had made for a whole heap of his excuses; I won’t bore with the details of those. I even made up excuses for him when he wasn’t even offering excuses. I need to strip away every excuse I ever made for him. Every last damn one.
I think I’ve realised that I am / have been still making excuses. I know intellectually that I should see him as a selfish, using little baby of a man who has just taken what was on offer so long as he didn’t have to ‘man up’ to ANYTHING, ever. His behaviour has been much worse than some of the stories I hear on BR and when I read those I think to myself – what a tosser; just dump him fast!
Yet, I cannot seem to get over what I hope to be a final hurdle of really, really truly *SEEING* (and feeling!) WHO HE IS (the ex EUM). Why, oh why, am I still sometimes thinking, well, yea, he’s been a bit of an asshole, but I’m sure he didn’t really mean all that in the way I think he meant it; he is a decent guy really; he just can’t handle relationships very well; he just got himself into a spot.. yada yada,,, all that kinda stuff.
Well, last night putting a few excuses (his and mine and mine for his) under the microscope, I walked through another door. A really horrid one. Through the door I saw a liar, a weasel of a man who totally and unashamedly ignored my feelings; who thought (and still does) that he owed me no explanation for anything, who didn’t have any genuine care or concern for me. How could he have and treat me with such emotional disregard, ignoring all of my needs unless it suited him to barter my needs for his own.
It’s horrible. I don’t actually like him very much anymore. I hope that door stays open cos I think there’s more.
I can relate to that as well especially the making excuses for him when he wasn’t even offering excuses part. Even now after almost 2.5 months of no contact I still find myself thinking “well maybe he didn’t do what he did on purpose, maybe he’s so mixed up and messed up that he acted as such subconsciously. He’s not such a bad guy in the grand scheme of things. He [insert good quality here]” and so on and so forth. It’s totally and utterly ridiculous when you think about it yet for some reason we still see this person who took advantage of us as being “not so bad,” etc. For me, I think it may have something to do with the fact that I always tend to focus on the positive aspects of all people, even when the negatives are so blatantly screaming out in front of me.
I think one of my huge eye openers came when I broke no contact (something I still regret) and basically said everything I wanted to say (for I did not get the chance before and at that time still believed that I needed closure, or more specifically closure from him to move forward.) and his response to me being open and honest was a resounding avoidance of everything I had said. He picked up with a completely irrelevant topic of conversation and I was just blown away (although I don’t know why) that he could just pretend nothing had ever happened (aka press the reset button) and move forward completely ignorant. He obviously thought he had done nothing wrong and expressed to a mutual friend that I had basically read too much into things even though he has talked to me about where we were going and had asked if I wanted to put a label on us (in which I replied with yes and he acknowledged and agreed.) But yes, of course it would be MY fault considering that I was dealing with someone who is unable to take responsibility for his actions whatsoever.
Yet, we still make excuses for these people. It’s insane.
Michelle. I concur.
I think the trouble is that every time they behave very badly towards us we make the excuses and then get over it until the next time and the next excuse. I think part of my problem was/is that I deal with every piece of shitty behaviour as an isolated incident; it’s only ever the current one that’s making me mad at any given time, like I was only ever dealing with one piece of shitty behaviour at a time.
When I fell off the NC wagon in April and later discovered that he’d already had a big promotion that he didn’t tell me about; I was really upset about that but it was only one stupid thing in among a whole heap; why would I focus on that one thing and be able to put the rest aside?
Don’t get me wrong, there are particular really appallingly disrespectful behaviours from the past (and recent past) that always have festered, like a weeping sore…. but largely I have trouble seeing the whole picture, juts bits and pieces of crap. Maybe somewhere in my head I have one humungous cover-all excuse for the whole thing and I don’t know what it is.
I made a list today of all the shitty things I can remember (lots!)and next to them I have begun writing what excuses I or he came up with (the excuses are all mine!).
Next to some of the most recent ones I have typed – “no excuses; can’t think of one I had; didn’t have one; knew it was terrible behaviour; just didn’t want to let him go – didn’t want to be rejected; when he rejeced me it felt like I was falling off a cliff and I had to grab on to anything to save myself”. That’s roughly what I’ve written in a lot of the spaces.
I do notice that I was beginning to see his most recent shitty behaviours in a very very bad light and I didn’t like it and I was less inclined to excuses. When I fell off the wagon I didn’t last long with him cos the ‘excuse medicine’ just wasn’t working anymore: after his initial interest he behaved again like he didn’t give a shit – and all I saw was a man who didn’t give a shit (Thaks to BR I have made some progress!)
I have to find a way to really see and accept the big picture once and for all – minus excuses, minus amnesia, I think this will help me cos I feel like I’m lost in a maze – of my own making! (I even trim the hedges as I go)
That’s really true for me as well. I too would just focus on one thing he did that irked me at a time instead of seeing the bigger picture. It wasn’t until after everything was said and done and I took a real long look at the entire situation as it was (no smoke and mirrors) that I finally saw everything as it had always been. To be honest, my instincts had always told me that something was very wrong but I never listened. And the truth is I wasn’t happy for the majority of this time with him either, wasn’t happy with the way things were presenting themselves yet I didn’t care all that much because when things were actually good, they were GOOD and for some reason I felt this was enough.
Reading through all of these comments I now realize that down to the very end I made excuses for him. When I found out from a friend while I was away on vacation that he was hanging out with some other girl, bringing her around as if it were no big deal I still thought “well what if I read too much into things?” “What if we weren’t actually dating? Then I guess seeing someone else isn’t terrible…” I mean I’m ashamed to even admit that those were the first thoughts that sprung into my mind. This entire experience has been very eye opening to say the least.
Good on you! Stay strong! just think of the hurt if you go back to that, just keep NC and slowly and gradually you will feel better, you will slowly heal and you WILL find a man who treats you better, not in constant highs and lows…but in a steady, reliable, loving way! They arent as hard to come by as we all think. We just dont look for them enough, but theyre all out there. It isnt common for someone to be completely self centred and can disregard others feelings for his own. Im definitely taking my experience as a lesson learnt!!
Fearless,
“I have been struggling recently. I know it’s over. I know it’s got be over. I know I don’t want to go back. But I don’t feel “done” yet. I feel angry and stuck”.
I’ve been in the same place as you for the past few weeks, Fearless. I’m hoping it’s down to a couple of things. Firstly, that in glimpsing through that horrible new door the stark reality of the spineless, deceptive, self-serving man my ex actually is, I am finally nearing the end of grieving the loss of all my hopes and dreams for our relationship. I most definitely went through the denial and depression stages of grief, but until now hadn’t felt that much in the way of anger. I’m still a little way off the acceptance (and forgiveness?) stage, but am hopeful that this new wave of much stronger “how-dare-he” anger at his shoddy treatment of me is a precursor to it. Secondly, having come a long way in working through the grief, I know that it’s time for me to start taking the plunge into some serious action to build a new life for myself. But just as I’m reaching this stage, I’ve found myself thinking about him more frequently again in a nostalgic way. I think maybe I’m just clinging onto the old familiar Fantasy memories and using them as a last little distraction from facing my fear and appehension for the future. It’s almost like breaking NC and going back to the source of my pain to seek comfort (the familiar uncomfortable) or validation, without actually contacting him. But as I’ve now trained myself to make the Fantasy memories trigger the Reality memories, I get a nasty jolt and then start feeling angry at him again for all the thoughtless, disrespectful, selfish things he did. And angry at myself too for enabling him to do them. And so it goes round and round at the moment, making me feel stuck and frustrated. I’ve downloaded Natalie’s Get Out of Stuck guide, and I think the time has come for me to work through my beliefs and get past all my own excuses for not moving on to a happier life.
Radio, Thanks v much. That was helpful and interesting. I can relate to just about all of that.
Strange thing is I think I go in and out of the different stages. I feel much worse this past week or two than I felt a month ago. I get exactly what you mean about getting back into an uncomfortable comfort zone instead of breaking NC… me too I think. And I can’t figure it out cos I know I do not want back what I had.
I think I am either now about to turn a corner or am going back the wrong way! I think I may be looking for excuses to avoid extending myself further than I have and so am wandering round the maze wondering where the exit is but it seems like an awful puzzle so maybe I’ll just trim the hedges while I’m here and if that gets too exhausting I’ll just lie down for a while. I don’t know what’s going on with me at all. I need to get out of myself for a while I think; just give it rest; I need my life back.
WOW….that sounds exactly like me! I have felt much worse this past week or two then a month ago, how odd? And Im scared that im going to be stuck in a place where I cant just move on and let it go. Maybe getting over these men is a lot more complicated then the average relationship and this is why we fear the grieving stage so much because were jumping from one emotion to the next, even though we know we do not want these men in our lives any more. We have all the logic but our emotions do not match that, they seem to be all over the place and we cannot fathom why. I’m relieved that I read this post to be honest, because It’s made me realise that I am not the only one feeling like that, maybe we will get a break through fearless 🙂 I think I am in the same place as you are at the moment. Stay strong!
Fearless and Radio,
“I have been struggling recently. I know it’s over. I know it’s got be over. I know I don’t want to go back. But I don’t feel “done” yet. I feel angry and stuck”.
Just this week I started finally getting out of the angry stuck phase, I think–who knows about tomorrow as I may take another dip. Like you, I’m never going back to the excuse ridden days or the amnesia that fueled that unfortunate, unhealthy experience of sitting neglected at the back door settling for crumbs and magicing them into a loaf. Fearless, I like your idea of listing the crap behavior and the excuses (mine and his) as to why I tolerated it. That helps me own my part in the crap behavior and, perhaps, avoid it in the future.
What’s cracked open for me is focusing on my internal fears and well as the external fears. I’ve been focusing on whether my triggers are focused on my own internal fears or whether it’s his behaviour that trigger the fear. In my situation it was an unhealthy synergy of both. I had the internal fear and it played perfectly with his ability to trigger it. The focus on my internal fears has brought some clarity as to why I would accept such shody behavior and shit excuses. I bought the “busy” excuse because I feared being alone and being rejected. At some point, he would finish his work, right? Nope the next day/month, just more work and I continued being alone. So, follow this excuse if you can: Oh well, thought I, it’s better than being alone! Totally twisted.
Additionally for me, I used the Drama and the Relationship Crack, which is fueled by a healthy dose of amnesia and excuses, to avoid facing my fears. Everytime I went back to the empty well, my crack, it reinforced my fears, and I was left with a shit feeling that lasted way longer than the momentary high of being with him. And conveniently, I avoided facing what I’m now facing…my fears. “His actions didn’t match his words; my actions contradicted my words” (another stunning pearl from the new edition of Mr. U and the FBG). Radio, you are right, figuring him out is a million times easier than figuring me out. Natalie, I thought you turned my life around with your prior books and this blog, the new edition has me floored. Your insight and is incredible.
Signed: Getting Out of Stuck Today!
Oh dear god, Natalie I just read the section on the “Fallback Girl” in the new edition. I’m cringng and cringing and then cringing again. That was so me. How do you do know? Ladies and gents, download this as soon as it is available. Natalie, this is your best work ever. I’m still muddling through and finding amazing insights about myself. I wish I could be there for the 6th B-Day.
Yikes, I was that woman? Could we all have a cringe moment?
The real gem my ex would lay on my for just about anything – not calling when he said he would, showing up late, saying something horribly inappropriate, etc was “I is who I is.” Could. Not. Stand. It. Stayed in the relationship well past when I should of, but am slowly picking up the pieces and realizing that if who he is, is someone who cannot respect me, then he is not someone I want to be involved with!
“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a Merry Christmas.”
“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a Merry Christmas.”
🙂
Sunshine,
I hate that statement too “I is who I is”. Its like an absolute admission that whatever shit you call someone on, they will go “this is who I am”. If that is who they are though and you are calling them on plenty of disrespectful behaviour, then they have just got to go! They like that they are disrespecting fools and they are not for changing in your life time!
sunshine
I say something very similar – They are who they are. To choose someone and then want them to be different is such a waste of time. It’s like buying a dress that too’s short and wishing it was longer, a two door car and regretting it doesn’t have four, a dog when you prefer cats.
It’s so glaringly obvious to me afters years of bad relationships – but why not just pick someone good to start with? And if you make a mistake, flush. Quick as you can!
grace –
I see where you are coming from and I am wholly accountable for making excuses for his excuses and not walking away when I should have. Looking back, especially after reading through BR, I can see that the relationship was something that I should have opted out of much sooner than I did. I think I held on, at least partially, because in the beginning he never used that excuse and when I brought up that he was hurting me, he would be more respectful, at least for a while. Over time though it got to feeling like a really bad roller coaster ride and my physical and mental health was taking a serious hit. Using the term mentioned on BR this to me has be a real “epiphany” and in the future when I am ready to get back out there I will choose much more wisely, or at least try to, and if that doesn’t work, like you said – FLUSH!
“Sometimes, they’re even saying “Look, you know and I know what’s happened here but if you want to go along with this charade, I’ll throw you an excuse and see how much more of a free ride I can get.”” For the ex-MM his excuse was money. Couldn’t get a divorce because he was “playing it safe” and “didn’t want to hurt people.” What BS. He risked his precious stock portfolio, house by the sea, etc. every time he saw me. He hurt his wife every time he saw me. Hello? But his biggest excuse, (and mine too) for continuing was that we “loved” each other. We were in the justifying zone — using “love” and a mind-blowing sexual ‘connection’ as our excuses to keep the merry go round going. He was a liberal user of the reset button, which was located right on my person. All he would have to do was hit it and I went on autopilot, back to the ingrained FBG patterns of “Miss Independent.” What was his “reason” behind his excuse? I used to care about the answer to this question, journaling long and hard and psychoanalyzing him. After reading this blog and Natalie’s books, I have come to accept that I will never truly know his reasons behind his excuses. The only truth I need to know is that he is who he is and that I am FAR better off without his cowardly ass in my life.
“You’ll know you’re in a healthy relationship when you don’t have to listen to excuses or make excuses. Instead of accepting excuses, start accepting the reasons.” This is where I am at now in my relationship to myself–acknowledging the reasons for my poor choices in the past. It’s scary and enlightening and liberating and confusing and wrenching and affirming — all at the same time. I am 53 days NC and proud of my reason for finally getting off the ride: I am not that woman anymore. I am finally putting my relationship with myself as the number one priority–no more excuses.
Oh man you guys would be so proud of me! My ex sent me an email asking if he could bring his monthly payment to me in person, if it wasn’t too uncomfortable. I realized that I needed to prove to myself that he can no longer affect me and so I decided to face my fear of seeing him again. He came over Friday night and we talked for a few hours.. well mostly he talked per usual lol.. and I felt NOTHING! Hooray! I just sat here with a slight smirk on my face feeling oh so happy that I don’t have to deal with his drama anymore! He apparently feels like he now “understands” how he made me feel because new girl went back to an ex and totally screwed with his head. Right because 2 months is just like 6 years huh? He said he’s sorry for how he treated me and he wishes that things never happened with the other girl because it ruined our friendship. I told him “Well you can stop worrying about that because if we had changed to a friendship, I would’ve still been stuck in an unhealthy relationship with you, being on the fringes and playing your friend and hoping we’d get back together eventually.” He said “You’re right.. that’s exactly how it would’ve been. You would’ve wanted more and I didn’t”.
He kept saying he hoped we could be friends someday and could hang out and I just kept saying that I didn’t think a friendship was possible. That I couldn’t speak for the future, but right now we still need to keep our distance. He said he was worried he had ruined my life and I was still upset and I told him “Nope! Do I seem like I’m miserable?” and he’s like “No.. you actually seem very confident and like you’re doing great.”. That’s right! I was so cool and collected the whole conversation.. and it was completely genuine! I just felt so happy that he doesn’t have that hold over me anymore. Even as he left he said “I hope my visit didn’t set you back too far” and I was like “Nope! I’m glad we can be civil and not have the negative energy between us anymore, but I really am doing great on my own.” He thought I would be a huge mess.. and I got to show myself that as great as I thought I have been doing, I really truly am past this. It’s one thing to think so in your head, but to feel the lack of anger and pain or even interest in him was freakin beautiful.
Congratulations Carrie that is amazing! It must have been the best feeling in the world for him to say something like “I hope my visit didn’t set you back too far” (pretentious much?) and for you to not only express to him in words that it didn’t whatsoever but to also feel 100% unaffected. Good for you girl!
Hahaha! The best revenge really is living well 🙂
What a reality check and a blow to the ego that must have been for him, to realize he wasn’t so big and important and necessary that your life wasn’t ruined by him!
Well done!
Kudos!! =) You give me hope!
“I hope my visit didn’t set you back too far”
These guys talk in circles! What does that even mean? What is “too far”? If he really had any true empathy at all and genuinely cared for you, the possibility that you seeing him could “set you back” would be enough for him to not come and see you. Can’t be sure, but it sounds like he was looking for some kind of ego stroke since his latest lady left him. When you related the truth of the situation, that being friends wouldn’t be healthy for you, and he could look for his emotional airbag elsewhere, he really had no other choice but agree to the truth. Good for you Carrie!
Jasmine – I think you’re absolutely right. I was thinking “Are you really saying this?? After I just made it clear I’m doing just fine?” It was like he was really hoping I’m still hung up on him and that I’ve been utterly destroyed this whole time. At the beginning of the conversation he said something like “We might’ve worked things out and gotten back together” and then when I mentioned later I would’ve been hanging on as friends hoping we would get back together but that wasn’t what he wanted, he agreed with that. So I felt like the first time he said that, he was trying to hook me again, but his true feelings came out as soon as he said he didn’t regret losing the relationship, just the possible friendship. What a turd!
Love it!! That is so great Carrie…”Freakin beautiful” as you say..
The guy really thinks he has the power to “ruin your life” and “set your life back” …speaks volumes about how far his head is up his ass.
You go girl..when you get to the place of sweet solitude and you aren’t just surviving, but thriving….it is a place of bliss..
Carrie,
you are well rid of that man. He sees you so as to see how much he has messed with your head! What a toe rag! I wouldn’t give him any more of your time not even to proove to him and yourself you are over him. Any one minute he is squatting on your life is a minute of your life wasted.
I like the distinction between excuses and reasons made in this article! But, in my last experience it took a long time to determine the difference because my ex acknowledged the issues we had and told me he was addressing them. For example, he said he was taking it slow including me with his kids so that they would be comfortable with me in the long term. I wanted to trust what he said, and to give him time and space to do what was needed and a year went by before it became clear that the “solutions” he was working on were all talk no action. Once I realized this I opted out, but it still makes me feel duped to think back on it. How does one more quickly suss out the difference between empty promises and real commitment to making things work, without tossing patience and flexibility out the window?
That happened to me in one particular situation which inflamed me a lot. “Oh, I forgot to call you as soon as I found out that our plans to hang out changed because I was already in bed.” It shows they don’t really value our time enough to let us know when plans change, when they have to cancel, etc. (Of course, if they keep canceling, that’s another issue altogether.) If you really want to stay with friends like these, you have to be careful. If they’re the kind that will hang out with you the day you both plan to hang out, but they tend to be late or will change when to hang out without telling you, it’s probably better to have them to let you know when they’re leaving the house or something so that you can plan accordingly. Otherwise, I’d say, kick them to the curb.
These blog posts always make me feel so much better about my overall decision to kick the person I was dealing with to the curb. It’s interesting how emotions work. One day you can feel concrete in your decision and then the next the lingering what ifs come creeping back in and you have to fight your best battle to remind yourself that you were correct in making your final choice. The over analyzing and over thinking is what still gets me, even after having read a lot of the blog posts on this website. At least now however, I recognize this behavior for what it is and am getting better with combating it.
Having all of these posts reiterate what I need to hear is VERY helpful. There was another post recently about relationship amnesia or something of the sort and it’s amazing how we can just forget all of the negative sometimes and dwell on the singular positive happenings or characteristics. Thank you again for another amazingly helpful post!
So so true. The excuses were just another amber, then red flag I chose to ignore. I finally had enough of the BS and went NC in July after putting up with some seriously crappy behaviour. Here are some of the ‘excuses’:
(Communication became a few scraps and crumbs after a few weeks of full on chasing me.)
‘You’re right I am really rubbish at the being in touch thing… And am generally. Sorry. It’s not good I know and my only excuse is the busy busy thing. Up since 7.30 today working on business plans…’
(And so it continued)
‘Sorry for lack of contact- pretty full on in recent days with XXX so still working away now and started at 7.30. All go in the ‘other’ humanitarian world.’ (Yes this is a man who works with humanitarian causes!!!!!)
(After another promise to call that never happened…)
‘OK I now admit I am ‘the most rubbish person in the world to have a relationship with.’ All just to do with 24/7 work- still…BUT I do still think fondly and frequently of you in the part of my brain that doesn’t do strategic plans or excel.’ (This is when thankfully the penny dropped and I realised what an idiot I was. I went in search of answers and I found Baggage Reclaim – hallelujah! 30 Signs He’s Not Interested. I ticked off 16 without drawing a breath. Not only is he a total Mr UA with AC tendencies he is, as I found out after NC kicked in, a MM.)
I just wish I’d found Baggage Reclaim sooner.
Julia T
“Not only is he a total Mr UA with AC tendencies he is, as I found out after NC kicked in, a MM.)”
pfffft. Honesty, where do these men get offwith this crap? Aye, busy being married mair like! I am tutting, huffing, puffing and raising eyes on your behalf.
Im deeply sad listening to all this, too, and l am wondering, what would put them (AC, MM, EUMS) really taking a deeper look at their actions? Letting their wives know? Because it seems that to them, it looks like a joyride, and once they mess up one girl, they jump to another, and its not the fact that they dont know what they are doing, they know exactly what they are doing, but what would make THEM to STOP? Will THEY ever learn and hold accountability of their actions?
Hi Ria,
I wonder the exact same thing! The guy that I’ve been involved with (a MM) seems to think absolutely nothing is wrong with what he said to me, promised to me and how he treated me, despite me telling him how hurtful he’s been. It’s like he has selective amnesia. I know everyone says to initiate NC, walk away and ignore him, but there’s a big part of me that wants to call him on everything, even if it’s only to help me get things off my chest and vent a bit. And, like you said, hold them accountable.
Amy
Sit on your hands, tape your mouth shut, pray, do whatever you have to until the urge passes. What you do now is crucial. You’re currently a woman who has been pursued and dropped by a MM. Unpleasant. But if you continue with this “plan” you’ll be a woman who pursued a MM trying to work on his marriage. He probably realised he went too far and has retreated. Churches are gossipy places, which is why St. Paul’s was always preaching against gossip. I’ve been to enough churches to know that it will be deeply unpleasant for you if this gets out. Let. It. Go.
There’s not a single advice column, blog, counsellor, priest or pastor who would recommend you continue contact with this man or tell him about himself. Anyone who advises you to do that is a charlatan/ nutter. I 100% guarantee you with total and complete certainty, and the “benefit” of my 20+ years of crappy relationships that you WILL come off worse in such an exchange.
Save yourself! Redirect your love and energies to God and to yourself and one day you genuinely won’t give a jot what this man is up to.
Heartache Amy,
Forget holding him accountable.
Hold YOURSELF accountable. You are dating a Married Man who is treating you like crap.’
WHY?
Your first and foremost responsibility is to tell YOU about YOURSELF and be accountable to YOU.
If you think what he’s doing and saying is so wrong, WHY are you sticking around for more? What about the drama of it all is so attractive to you? What are you getting out of it?
Every minute you spend worrying about his life and what he’s doing or should/shouldn’t be doing is a minute you are spending avoiding and denying the reality of what YOU are doing.
His mind is on his life, YOUR mind is on his life…there’s two people running his life and nobody running YOURS, which is really the only life you are responsible for.
Ria
If women stopped giving them opportunities, they would have to stop! And that’s not to let them off the hook. The harsh reality is that we can only change ourselves.
This is so true! I spent so much time making excuses for my ex EUM, or accepting his rubbish excuses because I didn’t want to look too closely at the real reasons for him ignoring me, standing me up etc. One time we arranged to go to the cinema and he stood me up, only to re- appear 2 weeks later blaming it on a ‘breakdown in communication’….2 weeks later he bailed again, texting me at 8pm when we were supposed to be going out to say he had just finished work and we would have to meet another time and not even bothering to come up with an excuse – and I actually texted him with an excuse for his behaviour, saying there must have been another breakdown in communication as I thought we were meeting up. What was I thinking?? He apologised and we re-arranged, only for him to stand me up again… When he finally got in touch at midnight – by text – the excuse was that he was overloaded with work and his car had a fault that meant it could only go at 50mph??? Deep down I think I they were just excuses for not really wanting to see me, but I didn’t want to face up to that at the time!
hello everyone,
all the stories on here are so sad. i really feel for you all!
when i met the guy who broke my heart over and over again, he really made me feel very special and being cared about in the beginning – i still cannot believe he changed so much. it has been one of the most emotionally crushing experiences in my 28 year old life so far, and i have been through many things. it is hard to imagine how painful it is when someone puts so much effort into building up “something”, and you buy it and make a huge emotional investment – and later find out the guy just didn’t and on purpose didn’t form an attachement.
although it’s obvious, it is so incredibly hard to grasp the “he is not really interested part” when you feel there is a lot of chemistry and what’s more, being on the same wavelength. what especially makes me feel like s***t… i know i am very attractive to men…so he feels extremely attracted to me and the physical part about it all. but is my personality so awful? it’s so soul-crushing, humiliating and i feel extremely sad and in some way broken within. but this site gives me so much hope that i will be able to get over this experience at some point in my life.
thank you all!
i have a question for the “survivers”: were you able to love after that experience? i am scared i might not be able to connect romantically for a long time now. i am just to scared that might happen to me again and my feeling of self-worth is very low…
Leila
you need to really build up your self esteem, read Nat’s blogs on how on the amber and red flags, how to spot Mr EU – get the fallback girl book (new edition) and when to flush the no-gooders; if you don’t arm yourself with the right equipment, yes, you’ll find yourself repeating the same pattern and getting same injuries etc.. work seriously on you self esteem and your boundaries.
Carrie: “I would’ve still been stuck in an unhealthy relationship with you, being on the fringes and playing your friend and hoping we’d get back together eventually.”
This is essentially what I’ve done for the past year, since the EUM broke up with me telling me it was all my fault. It seemed at times that we had something more & I hoped we could give a relationship another shot, but I’ve gotten tired of living this lie. He makes sure I know I’m only his friend when he’s “too busy” to see me or wants to put me in my place, but if he gets to missing me and wants to talk, fool around, have me do something for him, suddenly he’s going on about how he’s going to be in my life for years, how he has my back, we’re so close, etc. The last time I called him on his “being busy” crap and ended up telling him that we’re not friends, whatever this is, it isn’t that, he responded with “well what are you then, my gf?”, and says we should stop anything physical b/c it gets confusing. I asked him why he initiates anything then, and he says he doesn’t know & that we should only hook up if we decide it’s fwb and we agree it means nothing. Fantastic. Oh, and he told me how he’s friends with multiple exes who he had “real” relationships with (unlike with me I guess). I decided I should go NC and planned to tell him that and the reason, but in the meantime just started avoiding his calls. I answered one today and he said he won’t be calling me anymore b/c I’m rude for not calling him back. It kind of upset me-I know the result is the same and he probably wouldn’t have really listened to me, but I liked this idea of taking control and telling him that I didn’t want this in between thing in my life anymore. Even if it didn’t sink in, I could have said my piece and who knows, maybe somewhere in that little self absorbed brain he would have asked himself whether he is in fact a selfish user who treated me badly….sigh. I’ll debate whether to call later this week to tell him a short version, but I suppose after his declaration it kinds of takes the thunder out of announcing my decision.
Alexa, don’t debate. Don’t contact him. If you don’t call him, you’ll end up feeling more powerful and dignified than if you do. He is expecting you to call. Surprise him and never talk to him again.
ooh alexa
I think you should leave it, by contacting him again you’re only giving him another opportunity to reject/ignore/insult/ patronise you.
Even a reasonably self-aware person is not going to take VERY seriously the advice of a rejected lover (for want of a better term), never mind someone like this. It just frustrates us to try to get them to see our point of view. If they cared that much about it, they wouldn’t have jerked us around in the first place.
Alexa,
It sounds like he can still easily upset you, and I would agree with jupiter and grace not to contact him again, or answer his call and give him any opportunity to lay more crap at your feet. Because that’s what it is…crap.
Your actions of not returning his calls have spoken to him more than any words ever could. You even have evidence. He called you to tell you he’s not going to call you anymore. If he was really certain of his stance, he would simply stop calling, and not feel the need to verbalize that.
The term friend is thrown around so casually by these people. I don’t think any of them even know what a friend is. I, like the others suggested, would not call him back…ever. If you do want to call and tell him that you are through with things that is fine I guess but do not let him coerce you into staying by feeding you more BS which he is likely to do. Even if you tell him all that is wrong with him and how he’s made you feel he will not get it and will likely deny deny deny because accepting would mean taking full responsibility for his actions something he likely doesn’t do often. He will never get it unless one day he realizes that he needs to change on his own. Until that day (if it ever comes), he is a lost cause but that is not your problem. And him saying that he wasn’t going to call you anymore because you were rude not returning his calls is hilarious! I hope you had a good laugh when he told you that one.
You deserve SO much better than this Alexa and you will find better. Don’t focus on the few good qualities about this guy or who he could be if only. Focus on the person standing in front of you at this moment and time and look at the way he is really treating you. Don’t make excuses for him anymore.
I think the hardest part of realizing they were excuses, was indeed realizing that they were excuses. It sucks to be the fool but when you’re in it – you trust them and believe that the excuses are real because honest people say honest things. Its when you realize you’re not dealing with honest people and that their excuse made you look like a fool- that’s when it hurts. No contact is a great way to step back and take perspective…but can’t say what you end up seeing doesn’t hurt… it still does. It’s amazing that after 9 mos of no contact that I could still be flip flapping everyday struggling not to call. Any person with half the self esteem wouldn’t even consider it. The important part though is that I haven’t called and I’ve remained NC thanks to BR. And the other important part is that even though I still feel crazy missing him- he has no idea that I’m having this internal struggle..so on his end he thinks I’ve moved on! And thats the image I’d like to portray…and soon I will have totally moved on. In retrospect if I haven’t moved on or on the road to recovery I would have caved by now…but I haven’t …I’ve kept moving forward…one day at a time.
Very interesting post…..it is funny because the EUM actually told me once that the reason you will never see a commercial for a roll royce or any type of high end car is because the makers know there worth. He said when you know your worth you should never have to advertise it…people will just come to you. That told me everything really…that told me that he knew what he was doing. He was not willing to change his behaviour, because the bottom line is that he did not think I was worth it. It may be harsh to admit but some women keep making excuses for these guys, when at the end of the day they are not worth it.
Too funny, and so true. My ex-AC “advertised” from day one. Always building himself up, from making sure I knew how wonderful other people thought he was, to actually saying that I would be missing out if I didn’t have sex with him. And lots of other BS in between. This was during the hot phase. During the cold phase he would either make excuses, or just not even bother to try and deny his desrespect by saying, “That’s just how I roll.” Geez, it makes me cringe just to read what I wrote, and think about how desperate I must have been to even have gotten involved with him!
Icandobetter, I know how you feel. It took me a year and a half to get over it…at first I could not understand how irrational I had started becoming. I felt like I was losing something that I never had in the first place…and that was the hardest part of it all. I look back at it now and I cannot get over what I went through. He never knew though, he never knew just how caught up I was. I had to remind myself that I was not actually losing anything. Then one day I read someone FB status and it said: If he or she is unwilling to give you a relationship, it isn’t necessarily because they aren’t capable, they just don’t want to. They could be better and do right, just not for you. Don’t wait for the ‘change’… it isn’t coming.
That was my wake up call!
“Wow, it seems like you don’t seem to see what’s really going on here! Can’t you see I ain’t sh*t?!/ Can’t you see that I clearly am not putting in the time and effort here? Hmmm…well I won’t be direct with you because I don’t want to look like the bad guy here, so I’ll palm you off with this excuse in the hope that you get the hint. And if you don’t, well it’d be almost rude not to avail of what’s on offer…”
This is the guy I was last somehow imaginarily attached to. Not being able to resist getting into a text banter with him, but he never actually seriously wanted to catch up but would always check in with some sort of an excuse. Really proud of myself though for just saying back to him in the end “it’s confusing as to if/when you are actually available, you seem to find it a little hard to commit to an actual date, so let’s just leave it hey” His reply – unbelievable but hopefully the start to my ephiphany… “No probs, completely understand, the last thing I want to do is mess you about!” haha, finally an end to it, but like Nat said, he ends up positioning himself as the good guy. My friends and I have laughed and laughed. Anyway, just glad it’s all over now.
I met another guy a couple of weeks ago at a festival, amazing kisser, felt ‘the chemistry…’ therefore gut feeling told me he was the wrong sort of guy!! and he was all ‘I’m coming to London next weekend so I’ll call you”. Gave him the benefit of the doubt but by Sat night didn’t hear from him. so texted him and he got back the next day with some lame excuse saying he ‘missed my message, but would be back in town next weekend and we should catch up'”. yeah, right… no call from him that weekend either, at least I didn’t get in touch either, and mighty proud.
So things I have learnt 1) trust my gut feeling (should’ve acted a little earlier but getting there!!!)
2) Giving a guy a second chance is the absolute maximum, and basically thats one too many!
3) I know now I want much more than chemistry in a partner, and if I don’t see decent behaviour from very early on then I’ll move on in mind and body!
4) don’t even get me onto my 5 year relationship and all the excuses he used to come up with for why we couldn’t progress to even living together. now I thank god I have seen the light.
It is certainly getting easier to respect myself first and foremost! thanks…
Bella thank you so much for your positive post and for counting up the things that you have learned and acknowledged. It really uplifted my heart and gave me hope that we can do this. I’m at a positive place in my life right now and just want to count the good things. I too recognized that any guy I have immediate chemistry with is a bad sign. I am also learning to look for decency in men and be attracted to that, I got to put it in practice last week at a business function where I was outnumbered by the single men (that never happens). I’m not dating at the moment but I have some good stuff going on in my life right now. I’ve applied Natalies ‘get out of the comfortable uncomfortable’ to my career or rather the place I work and am looking to make a change. It’s all coming together nicely I just need to keep being aware of my part in the whole thing and be the driver. Thanks for sharing your own successes.
1) trust my gut feeling (should’ve acted a little earlier but getting there!!!)
2) Giving a guy a second chance is the absolute maximum, and basically thats one too many!
3) I know now I want much more than chemistry in a partner, and if I don’t see decent behaviour from very early on then I’ll move on in mind and body!
Love this three first rules.
Thanks for the advice, all 🙂 I suppose it seems like a bit of an anti-climactic ending to this whole thing. I don’t know that my comments would be construed as those of a jilted lover, but it is likely that his own ego will dismiss anything negative said about him by anyone. At the very least, I was proud of myself for not giving him the reaction he expected. I’m sure he wanted me to apologize for not getting back to him and to try to explain myself, but instead, when he said he wasn’t going to call me again I calmly said “alright, if that’s what you want to do”. He also said something like “good luck with whatever you have going on”. I suspect (and my friend guessed the same) that he may think there is another guy in the picture and that’s why I’m ignoring him. While he should expect that I would move on at some point, I would prefer him to know the real reason is that I’m just sick of him treating me poorly and this thing going nowhere. (And I suppose for my own sake, I would like knowing that I spelled it out for him in case I ever have a day where I question whether I did the right thing or if this could have ultimately gone somewhere).
To explain, in any other circumstance I would have walked away as soon as this guy said he didn’t want to be with me. But in addition to feeling like this guy could have been “it” and having never felt this way before, I blamed myself b/c I also screwed up. I was in a LDR when I started seeing the AC, and only separated from my bf (LDR) on account of the AC rather than completely ending things. Not to fair to anyone, I know. The AC ended things saying he felt like the other man, it was bad karma, etc. All this despite the fact that he knew I had a bf when we met and he pursued me. I ended things completely with the LDR after the AC ended things with me, and I thought that maybe in time the AC would want to give us another shot (if that were in fact the problem). He told me if we were both single we could date, then after I broke up with my LDR, it seemed like we were starting to rekindle things….but when I tried to talk to him about us, he got angry and said that he was “moving on”. I thought that given the circumstances, he may have doubted my feelings for him…he told a friend that I wasn’t serious about him and that he didn’t know if he could trust me. I now realize that my not being completely available was probably perfect for him. The AC ran hot and cold when we were together, and I doubted whether he wanted something serious down the line, or if he would simply panic if I informed him that things were completely over with my LDR. And even though I screwed up, if he was anywhere near as crazy about me as I was about him, he would have wanted to give it a try, even if he needed some time/space first. It’s still hard to fathom how someone can go from talking about the potential for marriage one week to ending things the next.
I guess I need to think about my own emotional unavailability, and what would lead me to be so crazy about someone who can be so hurtful, immature, and arrogant.
ICanDoBetter: “He called you to tell you he’s not going to call you anymore. If he was really certain of his stance, he would simply stop calling, and not feel the need to verbalize that.”
I called him on this, actually: “So you called me to tell me that you’re not going to call me anymore?” He responded that he was trying one more time and if I didn’t answer, he would assume I was out of the country. But knowing that I did in fact get his *one* message and had not returned his call meant that I was rude, etc. He didn’t really bother asking why I hadn’t called back–it could have been a number of things. In fact I did plan on calling him back but he called at bad times….then when I was available, I found myself just not wanting to dial and have another nonsense conversation that is either (a) all about him, (b) involves him playing nice to reel me back in, or (c) one in which he makes references to how he just “checks in on friends”. I told him multiple times that I don’t need him checking in on me, he’s not my emergency contact–to call if he wants to talk to me, period, not to “check up on me”. He started the last call by asking how he can check in on me if I don’t call him back. When I said that he doesn’t need to check in on me, that set him off.
Hi Alexa,
I’m going to be honest with you. Your AC probably liked you in part BECAUSE you were in a relationship. People who date people in relationships have commitment issues. And every single current Fallback Girl has issues with commitment, even if in every fiber of their being they feel like all they want is a commitment. It’s complicated. So analyzing the motives of this guy is kind of pointless, although something every one does in the early stages of ending a relationship. With time and distance, you’ll realize you don’t need answers because you have the one answer relevant to you–this guy is not the one.
Good luck and stay strong.
Hi Jupiter,
I realize this now. He confirmed it for me when he told me a number of months after he ended things with me, that there was a woman with a fiancee who was “interested” in him, and who ended her engagement on his account. Oddly enough, the things she reportedly said to him about her feelings and experience were exactly the same as mine–she had been with her fiancee for X period of time and had never looked at another man until the AC, had never felt that way before, etc.
I’m not sure why he told me about this, although I did ask him if he saw a pattern and apparently he had no idea what I meant until I spelled it out. He then asked me why this “happens to him”.
So, despite telling me that he was “moving on” because being with me was bad karma, made him feel like the other man–and the best–“it was like being with a married woman”, he then decided to find a woman who was in fact nearly married to repeat the same scenario.
Hi all, I have been reading a lot of NML’s old posts and a lot of the comments posted here and it has been a great learning experience. Thank you all. I am going to share about my ex and any feedback/advice will be greatly appreciated.
The ex and i were going out for three months and everything seemed great. He called when he said he would and we would text throughout the day about what we were doing. During this time i was taking a full course load at school (i am in grad school), working full time. We always hang out on weekends because of the schedule. But over a two week period i realized that he wasn’t communicating with me as much, i asked if he wanted to take a break and said that 1) at 27 this was his first real relationship and he did not know how to handle/communicate in r/ships but is trying to learn lessons in that, 2) he wants me to give hin sometime while he sorts out his past trauma from his father’s death with a therapist so it doesn’t interfere with tthe r/ship. Ofcourse i fell apart because the man had not even given and indication before this that there was a problem. We talk a week later and he tells me that he isn’t trying to break up but just wants me to give him some time like he asked. I said fine and went NC but i wasn’t going to sit by helpless while he sorted himself out becuase it hurt. I turned to the internet trying to find ways to cope and that is how i ended up here three weeks ago and i can’t stop reading. I am feeling better and i am in a place where whether he comes back or not i will be okay. I have been wondering whether to ask him if we are still on time out or not bother and just get a move on as NML suggests that there isn’t a point in trying to figure out what he is thinking.
Normally I know people would say he’s not interested, but I’ve had severe clinical depression (hospitalised) and pushed everyone I knew away, I was just really unwell, so maybe he’s just going through a genuinely difficult time re: his father’s death. Hard to know really.
Lavender
I’ve been clinically depressed and while I DID cut myself off from people I never mistreated them (didn’t have the energy). In fact, I was probably nicer to people than I am now.
And even if he is clinically depressed, it’s still a VERY LONG WAIT for him to be “cured”. I reckon about two years of hard work. Are you going to wait two years ? And after those two years is he suddenly going to pick you and commit to you when he hasn’t before? Is it not more likely that after two years of treatment and therapy he’ll be wanting to move forward with someone new, not look back?But I’m sceptical about the clinical depression excuse. I reckon “just not interested” is more plausible.
Sometimes respecting people isn’t about being there and unconditionally pouring out your love. Sometimes they just want to be left alone. We think a bit too much of our healing power if we believe that somehow we are “good” for them despite their protestations. We aren’t their family. That last bit is more of a general comment than aimed specifically at you. I don’t know what your situation is with this guy. I hope it’s not the abuser – he just needs to be dropped like a hot potato.
Grace, I have severe depression (on and off for years, working on it) and it’s different for everyone. You are comparing your unique case and saying it should be a rule as to how people relate to others while experiencing their own unique illness ? You are also a woman comparing your experience with the illness to a man’s and it has been documented in many publications I have read how men and women react to and experience depression very differently. Also, you forget men and women are generally raised in our society to express emotion differently; a man can’t be “weak” so it is likely when he has crippling emotions he will seclude himself, especially from a woman he likes since he can’t have her perceive him in a negative light (and believe me they do). A man will also be extremely frustrated by this self and societal-imposed expectation to not be “weak”, not be “emotional like a woman” (and yes ladies, you have a lot of guilt in this expectation too – we men are just like you when it comes to hurting. Prick us and do we not also bleed?) which leads to shame, guilt and inwardly-turned anger that will boil over onto others. This is, of course, a generalization for ease of discoure.
Depression is different for everyone, hence why the different approaches work differently for different people. The meds themselves produce different effects, work on different neurotransmitters, different parts of the brain – which is why a lot of people have to try so many things before finding something that works.
My experience has at times included times of severe isolation and anger. I would not be so quick to assume the guy genie is talking about is making an excuse; his father did die.
Alogon
My main point which may have got lost is that he didn’t even say he was depressed. Even genie didn’t say he was depressed. It’s conjecture. Women waste vast amounts of time trying to figure out why a man has disappeared.
And even if he is depressed it’s not our job to nurse him out of it. Especially if he’s refusing to even see us!
Amen Grace. So many women like to cast themselves in the role of Amateur Psychologist and if you have to do that to reconcile someone’s behavior…it’s not a good sign. Yes, there are people who are suffering with depression/anxiety/bipolar, etc., but you are 100% correct in saying that it’s not our problem to fix it and if they are not even communicating, don’t bother! There are even guys who will claim that they are depressed as part of the ol’ Crocodile Tears manouver.
Personally, I have GAD (medication was not the way to go for me – I do relaxation exercises instead) and occasionally still have panic attacks. If I was dating someone and disappeared/asked for space/flip-flapped, should they say, “Ahhh, poor Natasha must have been quite anxious today. That’s why she’s not returning my calls and sleeping with my cousin. ” Yes, sometimes I personally do need a little extra alone time when things are stressful, but to withdraw from a relationship completely? No, never. Obviously, everyone is different and there are people who suffer terribly and it is heartbreaking, but I am of the firm belief that psychoanalysis should be left to the pros!
Genie,
I would suggest that you continue with NC and let him do what he needs to do for himself. Continue on with your life by focusing on doing well in school, hanging out with your friends, and keeping yourself open to meeting someone else (even if it’s just dating for fun). If he really wants to be with you, he will. In the meantime, your time is too precious to be waiting in the wings wondering and hoping if he’ll come back. If he does decide to reconnect…if you still feel the same..AND if you happen to be available…it’s up to you to decide if you want to give the relationship another go.
All the best to you and keep us posted!
Thank you @ lavender, Grace, Alogon and Gina for taking the time to respond to my post. I knew i wouldn’t be disappointed here. His friends also told me that he said the same thing to them about us (no i wasn’t snooping, i work with two of his friends). It has been almost 2 moths of NC. I am going to continue living my life, well. And i’ll give you all an update if anything changes.
Yet again ladies,
we try to excuse male poor behaviour by medicalising it. Someone vanishes for two months..they can send a text to say they are ill. If you are so depressed that you can’t do that , its very very serious ie a hospital job. I know people like to give people the benefit of the doubt and if someone’s behaviour is inexplicable then maybe they have an illness. Or Maybe they are just an asshole. I know that sounds cruel and not very synpathetic, and people do seriously have depression and are very ill, but when we are saying that a man is a narcisist, is aspergers, has depression, sure it could be the case but actually some guys are just dicks and that is all. Unless they show me the paper with the diagnosis and the meds, they can use medical illness till they are blue in the face. I aint buying it. Let’s not use these medical excuses for poor behaviour, it takes away from the person the fact that they are a dick and it stops them having the responsibility for being a dick and more to the point you are making the excuse for them and letting them off their bad behaviour. Ask yourself why you are making these excuses? Is it because you can not accept that maybe just maybe they are not that into you and they have poor relationship habits. It’s like the overweight person saying they have a gladular problem..yes a few do but most people who are fat just overeat and don’t take enough exercise like most EUM act they way they do and are well people by all medical intents and purposes. It’s also a real insult to people who do have personality disorders, are mentally ill, depressed to try to pin male poor relationship behaviour on these illnesses.
Genie
Two months is quite a long time. I was thinking maybe give him a month or two, especially if his father died recently, but that two months has already passed. And you were only with him for three.
How a couple deals with misfortune is critical. Because as night follows day, it will come. And if all partnerships/marriages broke up because of it, half of us wouldn’t be here!
You sound like you are handling yourself well. If he does come back, trust your gut. We very often know whether they are being genuine or just spinning a line. And you will know in yourself whether you are strong enough to deal with it, there’s no shame in admitting that you’re not.
By the way, I did “date” (if can call two years of constantly being criticised, sexually exploited and repeatedly dumped dating) a man who was clinically depressed and it was no fun at all. It’s a relationship, not an obstacle course! Even when he was “cured” we still didn’t have much fun. I had my issues too (or I wouldn’t have given him the time of day) and, ultimately, we just weren’t compatible, simple as that. Sometimes the Excuse or even the Reason becomes so huge it can hide the fact that he’s not actually right for you – or you for him.
Hi, and thanks for all your responses to my posting. Yes, I’m the one who feels emotionally attached to a married man who, yes, is not available. If it makes any difference, I haven’t slept with him but I’ve come close. I’ve tried very hard these past few days to back off my contact (I don’t think I’m ready for NC just yet) but it’s so hard. I feel very badly about the fact that he’s married — I really do, and it’s so not like me to be in a situation like this. I’ve been separated from my husband since last October and will soon be in divorce proceedings, so I know, in part, that this happened because of a) feeling rejected by a husband of 11 years, b) having low self- esteem and c) genuinely liking this (married) guy who managed to say all the right things to me for three months. I feel like a fool and I feel even worse that I just can’t seem to cut it off right now. I don’t have delusions that he will leave his wife. I just can’t seem to end it. I need help to do so. I know it’s a bad situation but I don’t seem to have the strength to get out of it.
heartache
I was in exactly the same position just over a year ago. Returning childhood sweetheart. He’d got married. We know how it goes. I didn’t have sex with him but it was still very difficult to cut him off. In my case, the “excuse” was I knew him before, so I felt a SLIGHT claim to him. But, in the end, his flip flapping, hot-cold, unreliable behaviour did turn me off the idea of sex. Imagine how much worse you’d feel if you’d actually done the deed! Over a few months of counselling and BR, I was able to NC him completely. Haven’t heard a peep out of him in months (don’t know how many, I’m not counting cos I don’t care one jot). I don’t expect to hear from him and if I do I’ll ignore him. He was disrespectful to me and to his wife. I don’t want that in my life. And I don’t want to be the person who shags a married man. Been there before and even though that man DID leave his wife it really was a poisoned chalice that haunted me for years. Oh, and THAT man dumped me after three months so that was … typical!
When you fully grasp the reality of who he is, his situation and your situation you’ll be surprised at how quickly you can move on (if you don’t have sex).
Fearless, Radio Girl, Runner Girl, and Everyone,
Wow. Gosh. And again, the epiphanies and the “ding ding” of the internal light bulb going off in my head. I relate SO very much to your comments here about the various stages of grief and having, to “get real” with yourself.
For me, that is also the scariest part. I vacillate a lot between feeling anger, sadness, fear (Will I ever be able to fully trust/love again?) to the absolute worst: a sense of nostalgia, of longing, of regret…how much of it was “real” and how much was imagined/fabricated by both of us?
Being able to let go of all the hopes and dreams tho, that is the most difficult part for me. And the thing is: I’m not even sure I ever fully let myself believe in all the “future faking” my EU, separated MM did with me, but at the same time, I also so very much wanted and needed to believe in the “possibility” that it could somehow be made “real”…
Facing my own internal grief about not just this relationship but so many others from my past, has made me realize just how much of my life has been spent, voraciously, pushing those very uncomfortable emotions down down down and the realization that all that I was giving to others of my time, energy and attentions “should” have been directed towards ME.
Feelings of abandonment and rejection: yes, the “double whammy” for me. The endless self analysis of both him and myself and the ultimate realization that I will never really fully know WHY, and that the resolution that I seek from him must come, at last, from me…yikes!
Scary thought! And yet, I know that in order to be “whole” I must not only pick up the pieces myself. I’m frightened I won’t be able to do this. And yet, I also know if I don’t, then I will never be able to fully move beyond this and it is that desire to move forward in spite of my many fears, that I must remember but wow, it is SO not easy, at all.
I feel so very fortunate to know that I am not alone in this. My best thoughts to all of us here, struggling with these things. Hugs to all.
Lessie,
It seems as if you, Fearless, Fine, Runner and I are all at a similar stage in our grieving and coming to terms with the loss of the dream-relationship-we-thought-we-had-but-never-actually-did-have. I discussed with my therapist yesterday about going back and forth with feeling fine one minute, sad the next, then angry, then nostalgic and slipping back into denial, then afraid to face the future and deciding what I’m going to do with it. She reminded me that no-one goes through the stages of grief in a neatly-structured and well-defined way. More usually we vacillate between the feelings of denial, depression, anger, etc, eventually arriving at acceptance, which I think is the feeling of peace that BR readers who’ve got further down the road than us write about in their comments. Whilst being mindful not to invent excuses and distractions from getting on with building a new life outside of my old habits and comfort zones, I’m trying to be gentle with myself and not push so hard for progress that I get spooked which might then justify my fears and send me scuttling back into full retreat. I’m still not sure if that’s the best way to venture forward from the relationship fallout, or whether it’s better to launch straight into the deep end… Maybe it’s horses for courses, and what suits one personality doesn’t suit another?
Lessie and Radio,
I’m sending you lots of cyber-strength and lots of hugs. Radio, you really helped me with the comment about being gentle and not pushing so hard that I get spooked into full retreat. I want out of stuck and I’m making time and space to grieve but there doesn’t seem to be a shortcut. It’s just painful when I realize what a shmuck I’ve been.
Oh Lessie, you are so right about trying to push the the uncomfortable emotions down. I’ve been able, with the help of you all, let some of the fear and anger come to the surface and, so far, the world hasn’t ended. It’s been one light bulb moment after another. I can only read about 10 pages of Nat’s new edition before another light bulb goes off. She recommends making a list of what we are waiting for because waiting for some cosmic shift on their part would make things easy for us. Similarily, accepting their excuses and making up our own excuses results in my own inacitivity. “Don’t expect from others what you are not doing for your self.” That’s the hardest thing for me right now. “What can you do in this situation? If he doesn’t take action, make a decision, what will you do?” RUN and don’t look back?
In juxaposition, I’m writing this as race car guy has called every night. We’ve never met, yet. He texted tonight and wanted to know if I was feeling ok (I’ve had a cold) and wanted know if he could call me. He must be reading BR. So far race car guy seems to be okay. It’s so weird not getting excuses. It’s so weird not making excuses for his excuses. It’s so so no drama. I don’t know if I’ll ever meet race car guy but he seems to be a refreshing reasurance that there could be good guys out there, despite his long hair. It’s so different. I’m not fighting or chasing or spending any time thinking about whether “he” will call. Either he calls or he doesn’t. This is totally new and totally weird. I like it a ton. Nobody can reject me. Only I can and I won’t anymore.
Radio and Runner Girls,
Sigh. Yes, I can relate to all you are both saying here with regards to the various emotions and stages of grief that are occurring. I too, often feel as if my emotions are vacillating all over the place.
And, just when I think have conquered anger, then comes the depression, or just when I am feeling more positive and hopeful, then I start to feel despair, it seems never ending.
My health has suffered and also, my income has taken a sharp decrease as well (though I am hoping this is only temporary) and all of this, including both my recent divorce then the break up with the EU separated but MM has happened in the span of the last six months! I almost fear going mental at times.
I am very lucky that I have wonderful, kind, caring and supportive friends and yet I also realize that ultimately, the only one who can really help me is *gulp* ME. And I don’t even know where to begin with that, most of the time, you know?
My emotions feel utterly depleted and empty. And Runner, like you, I also have a man, who I have known as a friend for the past five years who has been very wonderful to me during all of this; he has professed feelings for me and yet, I am so very scared to really fully let myself trust again, with anyone.
He is very desirous of a relationship with me and I have been honest with him and told him that I am feeling overwhelmed and that I have A LOT of work that I need to do on myself and he said he understood and that he loved me and that he isn’t going anywhere and how wonderful is that? And yet, I have these fears and this sense of…foreboding and I hate that.
I need to take things one day at a time, I know this. I just…I want to be able to trust again, love again, and at the same time, right now, all I really want to do is just hide away from the world which I know is not the best solution…so, what is?
I don’t know. I’ve been spending too much money as of late, trying to help offset how sad I have been and I also know I can’t keep doing that either. I just feel so very heartened to know that what I am experiencing is not unique to me and that we all seem to be in this similar emotional landscape at the moment.
I am sending the very best thoughts and hugs to you both 🙂
Hey there Lessie,
I want to give you some encouragement to stay with your emotions and feel them even if it feels like you are going mental (unless you are). You have a lot going on with a divorce and the exMM and you are fortunate to have a good support network. Isn’t it hard to accept that it is up to you, not them? I finally got a little clarity regarding how I excused myself for not having my best interest at heart by blaming him for not having my best interest at heart. At Natalie says, “do not expect anything from him that you cannot be and do for yourself”. Gulp is right.
For me, the fog and my totally twisted “reality” has started to clear a bit. Living without the constant excuses and drama (mine and his), allows time for reflection and feeling. It’s been scary but enlightening. Natalie and the others are so right about turning the focus on me not him. I’ve recently experienced hours where I realize I haven’t thought about him, positively or negatively. I did start using a rubber band at one point though. I no longer wonder what he’s doing or think about what we would be doing. I know he can’t call, text, or email as he’s deleted, blocked, and being tracked by his wife.
You’ll trust again but I think that trust starts with you. Sigh and Gulp. I believe in love after love as soon as I learn to love myself. Sigh, gulp, and scream.
Be careful with desirous guy. You don’t want him to be a fallback guy, right? I’m being very careful with race car guy. We’ve only talked on the phone and never met. I know I’m vulnerable, still have a ton of work to do, and don’t want a rebound situation.
runnergirl, Lessie,
Please forgive the impertinence, but if I may give a word of advice: be careful about getting into another relationship.
We as humans are social creatures, and I think that when we are in pain we tend to over-estimate our ability to be in a relationship. Facing and feeling our pain, despair, loneliness, and low self-worth after a relationship ends is necessary to get through it all, but it’s very very hard, and sometimes we may be so down that it may be impossible. So, someone comes along, and we run to them.
Except, we don’t see it as running. We are too good for that, right? We are learning about ourselves, we may go to therapy, we read…. Our mind comes with a thousand reasons, excuses, and rationalizations that are very convincing. So, we tell ourselves we are going to be careful, we will “try”. But what we are really doing is hiding, getting a respite from feeling like sh*t. The problem is, not only are you dishonest to the other person (sometimes without knowing it, for you may actually like them) for not being able to be fully emotionally available for another relationship, but what is worse is that you are dishonest to yourself, as your exposure to all your pain and negative feelings has decreased, and you have put your healing on hold (or at least slowed it down). So, you may stay and hide for a while, but when it ends and you end up hurting somebody you may have cared about in a way, you may have the emotional fallout of yet another failed relationship to deal with. And that stuff you have ignored all that time will be waiting for you…
I am talking out of experience, for I have done this very thing. You know yourselves best, and I cannot presume how far along the road to healing you may be, but be careful. Don’t trust your mind, as you can convince yourself of anything if you want it hard enough, and getting away from pain and loneliness is a very powerful subconscious motivator. Staying away will be harder and hurt more. It is a much crappier road short-term than the alternative, but it may be better in the long-term. You’ll have to decide for yourselves.
BTW Lessie, if you want some context on why I am writing this, go to the Sep 9th article (“Casual relationships…”) and search for my post. runnergirl knows, which reminds me to thank her for her wonderful reply.
McBane, we seem to be trailing along on the last posts but I wanted to say I’m so glad you are still here. You are not being impertinent, particularly given the fact you’ve been so courageous and honest with regards to your situation. I have rushed into rebound relationships and never fully grieved the loss of any relationship/marriage (3) until now. You are right about being dishonest and running into another relationship. I don’t want to use another relationship as a respite from dealing with my issues. Been there, done that, and the t-shirt sucks. My head got ahead of me and I dipped my toes back in the pool when I was not ready.
Race car guy blew hot for about a week and a half. First a few email exchanges, which turned into a few phone calls. He called when he said he would and did not rely on text messages or email. I didn’t respond to his text or email after the first week so he upped it to phone calls. He was tracking nicely. Then, nothing. I’ve been an astute student of BR for 9 months. I know what blowing hot and blowing cold means. Race car guy blew cold before the first date. Thus, Flush.
I don’t want to bury my issues It’s now or never. “Facing and feeling our pain, despair, loneliness, and low self-worth after a relationship ends is necessary to get through it all, but it’s very very hard, and sometimes we may be so down that it may be impossible.” You’ve said it. I’m doing it.
I’m really glad you are here and thank you for your response. It helped tremendously. I hope you are doing okay?
HELP.
My first real attempt to be emotionally available and open since the ex has somewhat gone down in flames, as the Nice Shy Guy has done the not-so-nice disappearing act.
After waiting a good while, I composed what I consider to be an adult, brief and kindly parting email, and have sent it. I’ll never get an explanation, but that may be a good thing (even though it makes the closure harder). But at least this way I have given MYSELF an explanation and a cut-off point.
I have now sworn off my gmail account until at least Friday (I was sitting there like Mark Zuckerberg at the end of ‘The Social Network’, hitting ‘refresh’ over and over again …) I am firmly convinced that he will not reply, which saves me the hassle of listening to excuses. The only excuse I’m open to is emergency amputation, and in that case I want to see the medical report.
Things I have learned:
*no one is so busy that they can’t answer an email, especially when they’ve managed it before
*anyone as shy as he is cannot deal with conflict, so I do understand that it’s easier to just fade away
*I don’t think I want to go out with someone who is that afraid
*I still need work in the following emotional areas: Florence Nightingale, people-as-projects, and punching below my weight.
So all in all, I think this might be a good Learning Experience. Damn damn damn that it had to happen at the bad end of the monthly cycle, but I have a cure for that. It’s called ‘a small pizza and a trip to the movies on half-price night.’
And tomorrow I think I’ll go back to the rifle range after work and let off a few dozen rounds. It’s surprisingly cathartic.
But a bit of patting and calming words wouldn’t go astray … at this end of the month I usually struggle to follow my own good advice.
PJM
Aw, it’s not always going to work out. You did the right thing. You can’t keep giving chances. At some point you have to call it a day.
As for conflict, I don’t know many people who say ‘”I just love conflict, me!” Though the EU are ESPECIALLY conflict-avoidant. Even when there seems to be no conflict, they try to avoid it by disappearing … thereby causing .. conflict. But that’s the EU for you, they don’t make sense. Once a relationship (or just dating) stops making sense, something is wrong.
Don’t be surprised if he comes back in x days/weeks/months with some lame email. The ONLY thing you should respond to is a genuine request to meet up at a specific place on a specific day at a specific time (yes, I do need to spell that out!). And only if YOU have the gut feeling it’s worth your time to go.
It’s not a big deal, not when some of us have spent months/years trying to flush some of these guys.
@PJM,
I’m so sorry to hear about Nice Shy Guy, but thank heavens it happened now and not after years of investment. Yeah, it doesn’t help much when you’re hurting, but in the end we all know deep down that it’s true.
This fade-away thing just bugs me. They have the wearwithall to pursue us like all get out, but not enough courage to end it like men?
I had a few absolutely delicious dates with someone who, on paper, looked terrific. Reliable, sweet, a succesful, independent man with his own life, he called much more than texting (a sweet good morning text every morning, since we only got to see each other on weekends), yada yada yada. We hit it off like gangbusters. A little enthusiastic making out at the end of the third date (no sex — we were both trying to be good!), he goes home after the date and disappears on me.
I called to see how he was doing after a few days since I didn’t get my good morning texts (didn’t want to be accused of “crowding” him!), and he has a complete meltdown on the phone about how he’s afraid of commitment, he still wants to date other women (we hadn’t even discussed being exclusive!), he’s not ready for a LD relationship (we live an hour and a half from each other), etc.
I just sat and listened, stunned, because this came out of nowhere. No red flags that I could see, and I’m pretty good at spotting them now. He was open, happy, had a great relationship with his kids, was making plans for things we’d do this fall, etc. We had both discussed what we were looking for, and for god’s sake we had only had three dates! All I could get in edgewise was the occasional “Uh huh … I see …” as he melted down. Later that day, this man who had pursued me enthusiastically and called me nearly every day for three weeks sent me an E-MAIL telling me it wasn’t going to work out because he wasn’t ready for a LD relationship. He admitted that he had come on strong, but there was no explanation about his freakout, and frankly I’m not suprised.
Whatever. It’s a shame, because I was really getting to like him. And I feel conned in a way. It reminds me a lot of the comic strip “Peanuts”, when Lucy tries to convince Charlie Brown to kick the football she’s holding and every time he tries, she yanks it away so that he falls flat on his back. Even when she swears to him that she won’t.
So, I did have a point, and it wasn’t just about me.
@PJM, I think what you took away from the experience was perfectly reasonable. It’s not easy to balance watching for red flags without seeming paranoid about every little move they make and wanting to trust someone enough to open your heart. It’s a testament to us as human beings that we continue to want to do this in the search to connect to other people.
Hugs to you!
I have a girlfriend (female friend) who is using so many lame excuses about being busy..so I called her on her mobile..no reply..so I texted her saying…”let’s meet up like you said, when’s good for you..” no reply. So I sent her a facebook message saying her same thing…you guessed it no reply.
So am I concerned about this? ..er no. Am I worried about her?..er no. Am I wondering why she is treating me like this?..er no. have I flushed her ass, hell yes. Will I be returning her calls again. No I am busy with better things to do with my time!
If only it were that simple with some ex’s lol! However it just goes to show that its easy to spot timewasters even when they say all the right things when you are not overly emotionally invested. It is not a recirpocated relationship, you don’t need to chase it down because you just don’t need it!
Umi I have a couple friends like this too. The problem is they act like this with everyone. One of my friends recently got married. Everytime she’s dating a guy she gets all caught up in him and forgets about everyone else. Her excuse, “I’m just so busy”. So needless to say I barely heard from her for a year before her wedding. Guess what, noone felt obligated to throw her a shower or anything because they had hardly heard from her in a year. I was happy for her but I wasnt willing to put myself out for her anymore. If I’m going to spend my hard earned money and energy on someone, then its going to be for those who are there for me as I am for them. That’s what healing from eu’s and ac’s is all about.
PJM, I think everyone on earth struggles to follow their own good advice at some point! I think you are doing awesome and you hit the nail on the head when you said, “I don’t think I want to go out with someone who is that afraid.” As much as these situations suck, if he’s a hot mess (sounds like it), he did you a favor. Think of it this way: even though it didn’t work out, you did something amazing – you made yourself available! No easy feat, as we all can attest to. Here’s one of my favorite articles of Nat’s, I think you’ll like it! *Big Hugs*
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/be-thankful-that-they-didnt-show-up-and-other-things-to-be-thankful-for/
Thank you everyone – that’s all a huge help.
@grace – yes, I have a feeling there might be a lame excuse lurking in the wings somewhere, but on another level I think my adult email might have done the trick. I know it’s awful to want to have the last word, but when you start spiralling out of control, it’s good to have something to do as a cut-off action, eg. ‘this far and no further’.
@Rising Up, isn’t it funny that three weeks seems to be about the most any man can take before his flight mechanism kicks in? Surely there must be some clinical studies out there that explain this …?!
@Umi and sm – you know, another thing I learned from this is that I have a male friend, an ex from about 15 years ago, who lives in another city and who I’m still in email contact with. He has serious mental health problems, which is a shame because he’s very talented in many ways, and we mostly chat about his writing career via email. But sometimes when he’s unwell, he emails me daily, and I get jumpy and cross when I keep seeing those emails and sometimes don’t reply for a few days. So today I made good and sure I emailed him, and apologised for not replying straight away! Nothing like having it dished out to you, to learn how hurtful it can be to another person.
@Natasha, thank you: I need cheering up. I have had so many messups, and so much emotional unavailability myself, and it’s taken me so long to get started on the road back, that sometimes I feel overwhelmed. But then I just have to keep doing the work, feeling the pain, acknowledging that it’s OK to be pissed off when you’ve been treated with disrespect, and learning not to do that to other people EVER AGAIN …!
Guys, one final thing: if you dream, then listen to those dreams. My dream life in the past few days has been really weird, and has spoken VOLUMES about how conflicted I was about Nice Shy Guy.
In one, a midget or dwarf asked me out, but I would have had to carry him everywhere and also change his nappies. I was torn between not wanting to hurt his feelings, and wondering how the hell I was going to pull this relationship off without having to explain to everyone that I’m NOT Florence Nightingale.
In another, a beautiful pure-bred collie dog turned up and got really excited when I said ‘walkies’. After I got the collar and lead on him (HIM, you notice), out the gate we went – whereupon he lay down on the pavement and wanted me to drag him along. Sod this, I thought – so I got him back inside the gate, whereupon he got all bouncy and cheerful again.
You really don’t need to be Sigmund Freud OR Madame Zingara, Gypsy Fortuneteller, to figure those two out …
I’ve commented here before, under another name, but I’d like to add this one…
I just found the courage a few weeks ago to unfriend the EUM on Facebook–thus cutting my last tie with him, after a LDR of 7 months. (and then yet another 5 months spent wondering what I did to drive him away. A wasted year!) This site has finally helped me realize, when he *actually said, “It’s not you, it’s ME.” he meant it. He knew!
I had agonized over my behavior, but I’m finally seeing the dark side of that guy. Funny, he claimed he had no dark side. He was an actor and writer(hobby and job), and claimed never to have played the part of a bad guy. Hmmm.
Talk about making excuses for his excuses, I did. When he said he was busy, I asked for only an hour a week to talk with him on Skype. I tried to fit in with his schedule.
We met on a dating site, he was a soldier stationed overseas(his profile didn’t list that, he told me in the third email.) A cute guy, never married, no kids–but didn’t have a history of long relationships–and was not on speaking terms with his father or brother. So, family problems. But the two most obvious “emotionally unavailable” flags should have been when he said, “I’ve never been in love before.” and also, when he said, “I wish I had met you years ago.”
Now, both of those items had me thinking–“Wow, he’s never been in love before, so maybe I’ll be the one he falls for(false hope and a challenge), and “How romantic, he would like to have met me years ago.”
My BS sensor should have been going off! What he was really saying(I love the “decoded” posts on this site!)was :”I should have met you years ago, because I was a different man then, I might have actually married you.” and “I’ve never been in love before, because real, actual LOVE is too frightening for me. I’ll never allow someone to get that close to me.” or–maybe–“I’m in a relationship already that you don’t know about.”
He dumped me on the day before Valentine’s, and yet claimed that it wasn’t “a relationship”, even though he future faked me by talking about marriage and inviting me to NY and Cali to meet his family and friends while he was on leave(never materialized, of course, because he broke up with me first.) Bonus: he taught a class on dating/relationships for young soldiers!
This guy really cost me some tears, but no more. He was an adult, and yet…
“Bonus: he taught a class on dating/relationships for young soldiers!”
OMG!
Soldier stationed overseas? or just a very good actor? eg. did you ever see him in his uniform, or see any other soldiers hanging around him? ‘Soldier stationed overseas’ is a very convenient excuse for ‘there is no way in hell I am ever going to meet you in person’!
I must be a very suspicious old bag, but this is one of the reasons I steer very clear of internet dating these days. If I can’t see them in real life, I’m not really sure they exist at all … On the up side, I think this represents a real step forward from my own commitment-phobia. I think the net is the best place to meet a commitmentphobe, because it’s heaven for these guys and gals: a veritable smorgasbord of the opposite sex to look at, fantasise about, and then not get too involved with.
This extends even to the ‘nice’ dating sites I’ve been on, like the religious ones. I joined one with real hopes that I’d meet a man who shares my religious values, only to find – guess what? Many of the guys there over 35 had major commitment issues or actual pathologies, and the ones who didn’t were all looking for a nice YOUNG woman to have many babies with. My nice profile photo, good education and financial security were clearly not enough; I barely got any contacts in my year there.
What got my goat – and the goat of a great many women on this site as well – was that although this was allegedly a traditional, old fashioned Christian type site, the women still had to do all the work, because all these dear men were terrified – or so they told us on the site’s message board. Apparently the streets aren’t safe any more: they are lined with castrating feminists, out searching for good Christian men to mutilate, which is why none of the guys there could possibly make the first move and actually email a girl first.
I left, and I never went back. NEXT!
The Excuse, I stayed, I Paid:
When we first met he was breaking up with someone (flag). But he couldn’t quite break it off with her and kept me as a Secret – the excuse of it… give it some time and he will be in relationship with me if I’m patient. (flag)
So, I was patient and number 2, I thought, for the past 14 months. Yes, over a year. He works out of town and would call me every morning at 5am, and evening at 9PM…Baby, Hon, Sweetie. I was addicted to his creamy voice and anticipated his every call.
When he is in town from working, we would get together, my place, for hot shags and home-cooked meals. I just broke NC, and he was at my house last Wednesday night. On Friday night I met another woman who has been in relationship with him for past 5 months! Same phone calls – twice per day!… He would talk to me, then her. Her, then me., and didn’t bother to tell us that we weren’t the ‘special loved’ one.
So me and new girl were both in shock & we traded info calmly… I’ve had Huge Pain and Sorrow since event of meeting her. Bob Marley: I don’t want to wait in Vain for You Love. I waited one year and 2 months – only to find he rotated someone else into the mix… (she now knows about the other one that he hasn’t let go of).
I am No Contact all the way this time. No reset buttons. I had a talk with my boss about what I’m going through and she is understanding and supportive. Today for work I wore a dress and Faragamo Italian shoes. I’m going to review/study music tonight for a new choir I joined. I go to Church now on Sundays and getting strength.
I’m not out of the woods. I would have married this abusive extreme sociopath. Nights are the hardest. I turned off my cellphone and gave it to a neighbor to keep. I did already block him from calling me. I must use all my strength to block myself from calling him. My shock, my sorrow, my heart, my time in vain. I will survive this, I do have the clarity to see how horrible and abusive he is (to all women), and I know I am GOOD, and that I did make mistakes and should have kicked him out of my life during the second month of our relationship. Strength, Hope and Blessings to You All.. Thank you Natalie.
AngelFace, you have completely done the right thing. You didn’t know he was a cheater, and in so many ways that can make it easier. This was your ‘last straw’; the thing that you just can’t get past; the deal-breaker.
Every woman has her ‘last straw’, and I know mine was when my fiance suddenly ditched the idea of us having children. I kicked him to the kerb and he left the state.
Sadly, this was pre BR days, back in 1993, and we stayed in phone contact for another 6 months until I realised he was seeing someone else. THEN, I kicked him to the kerb for good. It was easier the second time around, but it would have been better if I’d even known there was such a thing as ‘no contact’!
I too did all the things you are doing: serious no contact, going to church, rebuilding my career, completing my PhD (which I had been neglecting because, after all, I was going to get married, and that was going to solve all my problems for the rest of my life). I lived alone for a year because I couldn’t handle seeing many other people, but I got there in the end.
And you will too. You have that absolute clarity and that honest, true inner voice and sense of having done the right thing, and that is GOLD. It will carry you through this.
Angel face; what a dreadful experience. Your post made me feel so upset for you (what a ratbastad!) You sound like you are taking a very firm approach though to NC – good for you. Wishing you well. (hug)
I know that I have to initiate NC with this married guy that I really like and secretly keep hoping will “fight for me”, as he once put it. But, he’s using excuses and I do see it, for what it’s worth. I’ve called him on some things a few times (both on the phone and via e-mail). The one time I did by e-mail he became incredibly defensive and said he was “offended and insulted”, that I didn’t trust him, that I was pushing him away, and that I obviously wasn’t ready to be with someone yet (he knows I’m getting divorced). My situation with him these past few weeks (meaning, he’s been pulling away but denying anything has changed) has been very painful for me. Many of you tell me to just “walk away” but I truly find some release in letting him know how I feel. Is this wrong? I don’t necessarily expect things to change, but I really want to give him a piece of my mind. Why should he just get off the hook with things? Why isn’t it okay to let him know that he’s hurt me? Will it change his behavior? Maybe not, but even if he feels badly for a little while, all the better, or so I think. I do have to see him in church and since I sing in the choir, changing churches isn’t something I want to do right now. So part of me wants to really stick it to him while he’s acting all friendly to me. I don’t see how completely ignoring things is going to help me…
Amy
He’s a married man complaining that you don’t trust him.
You’re complaining about how a married man is treating you.
Please try to see how ironic/strange/funny that is.
Ignoring him and walking away will help you because you will be no longer engaging with those negative angry emotions. Spewing them forth will not help you. Trust me on this one, It will only make you look nasty, vindictive and even a bit crazy. Maybe your comments will hurt him and maybe they won’t, but I suspect he’s not worth your angst, anger and attention.
Amy,
I’d say the release you get in letting him know how you feel is partly the ‘valve’ that allows you to let off enough steam that you don’t have to deal with the full extent of your feelings. Venting on him takes the focus off you, and you must be pretty frustrated with yourself for getting involved with a married guy. Venting makes you feel like you’re doing something when all he hears is “wanh wanh wanh … the mistress wants more attention.” In these guys’ minds you are the Number Two (or Three, or Four) and they expect you to complain.
Hell, I felt the way you feel about a guy for whom I was his main (he said he wasn’t seeing anyone else, but I don’t know), and he treated me as yours did, and let my venting go in one ear and out the other, and told me I wasn’t prepared for a relationship when I protested ill-treatment. That was worth dumping him for and I didn’t even know for sure if he ever cheated.
This guy is a cheater. Like Nat has said before, complaining to him is like going to the boss that harasses you to file the complaint.
Amy,
apart from what’s already been said, the irony of this is astonshishing:
“he said [… ] that I obviously wasn’t ready to be with someone yet (he knows I’m getting divorced).”
Errr…. whether you are ready to be with someone or not ready can hardly be of any consequence to him cos he is NOT offering anyway – he is married! – so is he ready to be with someone? (oh, no, that’s right, he already IS with someone – and it’s not you!) As Grace said, please try to see the utter tripe that all of this is.
This bit: ” I don’t see how completely ignoring things is going to help me…”
Ignoring “things” is not going to help you but you are giving all your attention to the wrong “things”. Get your focus back on you and your relationship behaviour. You can’t do anything about him or what he does (and neither should you want to) but you can do something about you and what you do. He is *married* and you had some notion that getting involved with a married man might be a good idea. It wasn’t a good idea and it’s still not a good idea and it is never going to be a good idea. Give it up.
Heartache,
The exMM got insulted and upset when I told him I didn’t trust him and accused me of “pushing him away”. Being involved with a MM is twisted as the others have said. I actually apologized to him on numerous occasions for not trusting him and “pushing him away”. Sure wished I would have listened to my gut . Of course I was pushing him away. He was MARRIED. Duh. Being involved with a MM, for me, was like being Alice in Wonderland in the rabbit hole. Up was down and down was up. I’m only recently and momentarily out of the rabbit hole and I understand completely what you are saying. You are in the rabbit hole.
It’s hard to see how twisted things can be when you are in the middle of it. Of course you can’t trust him, he is cheating on his wife. By definition, he is a liar and can a liar be trusted? Don’t get me wrong. I was so deep in the rabbit hole, the exMM had me convinced for two solid years that he was the only honest cheater and I could trust him. Even to the bitter end, he claimed to be honest.
Regarding confronting him with how much he has hurt you, I guess you will do what you feel you need to do. I’m with the others though. Nothing much will come of it. I got several oppoturnities to get a “release” by telling him what a ratbastard he was. I don’t think it’s wrong. It’s just pointless. Giving him a piece of my mind really didn’t result in much for me, other than to keep the focus on him and deflect the focus from me. You know what finally worked for me? Writing the longest Unsent Letter in history. Natalie has a great guide for Unsent Letters. The greatest thing about an Unsent Letter, they can’t talk back. They can’t “unvalidate” you. They can’t convince you your feelings are wrong. And you can be as angry and snarky and sad and hurt as you are. So sorry.
There is light out there. Up is up. Down is down. Wishing you light.
Oh dear Heartache,
Just read another stellar comment by Natalie that may apply:
“If someone doesn’t see themselves as they really are, there’s very little you can do because rubbing their face in it won’t connect some of the disconnected. But you are on the recieving end of their actions. You’re the one who feels the pain, the humiliation, the deciet, the confusion, the ambiguity, the contradiction, the anger, the sadness, and so much more, and yet you deny it”. Rubbing his face in it is futile. But darn, I understand that you want him to feel one half of the pain, humiliation, deciet, confusion, ambiguity, contradiction, anger, and sadness you must feel. I do too. They just won’t and don’t no matter how hard we try. My exMM still believes he is “honest”. The wonderful thing about a belief…there does not have to be any evidence to support it. It is a belief. These MM/AC/EUM’s will continue to believe they are good guys, despite the evidence to the contrary. Nothing I can do will convince them otherwise. Only thing to do…Flush.
On the one hand, I can see the futility of giving him a piece of my mind. But on the other hand, I can’t help but feel that it would be SO satisfying to do so. By the way, I received a text message from him yesterday, telling me how much he missed me and how, after tonight (he’s being inducted into some lodge position which has taken a lot of his time, apparently – yet another excuse), his schedule will be freed up and things can get back to “normal.” Normal?? He’s unbelievable. He’s the one who told me last week how impossible it was to see me. What could he possibly think is “normal” about our situation? I feel like I will never understand men.
“…if they’re the one making the excuses, they have to be a part of the solution, which means they have to be responsible in the relationship…”
So, to clarify, this means, when he tells you he will quit drinking when he “meets the woman he wants to settle down with” (excuse) the true *reason* is really a) he doesn’t want to quit drinking and b) you are obviously not the woman he “wants to settle down with” because he is still drunk 24/7?
Is this a FLUSH moment?
bbgirl,
I think you already know the answer to this one, but just to confirm what you already know, this lame excuse manages to deny responsibility and to insult you (or whatever woman he uses that line on) at the same time.
Addictions are a drag. Don’t wait for him to change.
blueberry
yes, flush.
addicts/dieters/the exercise-shy always have some mythical day in mind when they will finally get their act together. Look around, how many actually do it?
Blueberry Girl, I imagine the flush moment was long before now…. I think you’re seeing the trees instead of the wood. You’re involved with an addict which means exit stage right, abort mission. Someone who is genuinely trying to overcome an addiction, wouldn’t say what he has. It suggests that he doesn’t have to do anything and that the ‘right’ woman will trigger him quitting. The problem isn’t that he hasn’t met the right woman. The problem is that he’s an alcoholic. He clearly isn’t at a stage where he is even taking a smattering of responsibility. I struggle to be around someone who gets drunk most days of the week. It alarms me that YOU don’t see it as an enormous issue for YOU and haven’t left. Why would you want to be with someone who is drunk all the time?
You cannot force this man to stop drinking and even if you made some headway, he must give up drinking for himself. You trying to make him give it up and linking it to your own love index is only trying to get him to switch one codependency for another. When someone is drunk all the time, you go. This is code red and you’re still sitting around debating his problems.
Would a woman ever say: “I’m overweight, because I haven’t yet met the right guy who would make me stop eating”? Most would rather say: “I haven’t met the right guy yet, because I’m overweight”.
I think an overweight person can be a wonderful partner. An alcoholic cannot.
So why do we say “I don’t mind dating an alcoholic”, but don’t blame a guy for saying “I don’t want to date an overweight woman”?
I agree 100% with bells on. I have a total aversion to men who are drunk most or all of the time. I cannot bear to be around them. What is the earthly point? There’s not even a decent conversation to be had with them – it’s just endless hours of dribbling mumbling gobbledegook before they fall asleep or run out of booze – and that’s the best case scenario! – most likely scenario is that drunkness equals abnoxious and mean at best and abusive and violent at worst. On top of that, unless he has unlimited supply of free booze he will be spending half his income (or even more) on drinkand spending most of his life in a pub – or even worse drinking every night on your couch (no win-no win). A man who drinks is my greatest nightmare relationship. Wouldn’t give it house room! (yay! I do actually have a boundary – and it even comes naturally! I am simply not attracted at all to men who can enjoy nothing in life unless there’s a drink involved for them).
@NML, Grace, Magnolia
I really need to figure out why I keep running into the cornfield to pick a pepper *heavy sigh*
My rose-colored glasses saw a sweet, charming, funny guy with a serious drinking problem…instead of an alcoholic who would add little value to my life as long as he keeps drinking and avoiding responsibility for it. Honestly, Magnolia, you’re right~how disrespectful is that to imply that I’m not worth quitting drinking for? Maybe he’s not so sweet after all. Why do I put up with this crap behavior!
Release the parachute…thanks, ladies.
Blueberry,
Between you and the drink he’ll choose the drink every time – because he *has* to. For him to stop he would need to believe that “he” is worth more. The prblem is not how much he thinks other people are worth; it’s about how much he thinks *he* is worth.
@Fearless. You are so right. I love it. And, as for myself, I am definitely worth more than this…I have no choice but to exit.
McBane, Radio and Runner Girls,
Sigh. Yes, of course, I know you are very astute in your words about this, which is why, when my very dear friend was here visiting me the other week, I sat down with him and cried, of course, and had a long talk with him about not being ready for any kind of relationship and feeling very overwhelmed.
His response was “Take all the time you need, I will always be here for you”…and he has been, for the last five years, one of my closest confidantes and I trust him implicitly, I really do. Yes, it would be *so* much easier if I could let myself *lose* myself in a new relationship but I realize that by doing so, not only do I risk hurting someone that I do care deeply about (my friend, and also, myself) but also, that in a way, I replicate the EU separated MM situation I had been involved in recently.
Because, he did not want to feel the pain of his own disintegrating marriage and looked to me to take all of that away for him and it was unfair to both of us and I need to feel as if I am moving forward in my life, I don’t want to go back and repeat mistakes, I’ve already done that too much as it is. Feeling my pain, years and years of pain, that I have sought to repress has been THE most difficult and horrendous experience I have had to endure. It often feels never ending and that, if there is any light at the end of the tunnel, that it might very well be a train instead!
I am hoping this is not the case but my level of depression and sadness right now is almost overwhelming to me. I try and remind myself every day of my wonderful friends and the love and support they give me.
Thank you both for your thoughtful and caring words to me. *hugs*
McBane,
I did go and read your original post (thank you so much).
It does help me to know that, in many ways, what happened with my EU separated but MM had very little, if anything, to do with me. Two of my “guy” friends have been saying the same thing to me, but as I so often do I always say to myself, “Well, they care about me and want me to feel better so they are trying to be gentle and kind with what they say to me”
But, reading of your own experience…yes, and in a way, that is most difficult part of all this for me: it would be SO much easier to just say, “Oh well, he’s a terrible person” when the truth is possibly a bit more complex. I myself have said before, with regards *the truth* “Nothing is ever black and white, it’s varying shades of gray” and I believe this is true.
I even remember now him saying to me, “I am sorry I am not more sorted out for you, you deserve so much and are so wonderful”…you are to be commended for being honest not just with your ex, but especially being honest with yourself which as I am finding out, is the most difficult thing of all. It is brutal and hellish and I wish I could fast forward my way through it all but I can’t, I know that now. Sigh. And sigh again.
My very best thoughts to you 🙂
I asked him, “so when are we going to have coffee?” about two weeks ago at the end of an email. he called the next day to say he doesn’t drink coffee, and how about lunch that day? I was busy, he was leaving on a biz trip and said he’d call the following week. he did, six days later, and again said let’s have lunch if you still want to. (was he unsure?) however he didn’t make definite plans so I tested him and wrote him some email about work, and he replied. he also called me @ something work-related so I got the message he only wanted to be in touch with me if it suited his biz. thus I sent him a note to that effect and said let’s forget it.
well he called yesterday, apologized and asked me to lunch. I felt like I’d arm-twisted him, then again maybe he was just unsure of me or of himself. so I texted him later in the day and said, “lunch sounds great,” and I apologized for being so intense. not sensitive, intense. we’re having lunch Thursday (today is Tuesday), and by now I gather he’s not good on the phone socially, thus my texts. if it don’t come easy, let it go, however I’m really curious about him as a person, and it’s only lunch. who knows? just because it started awkwardly doesn’t mean it has to continue that way.