A close friend spent almost a year going through a really difficult legal experience. It was the type of situation where the other party had thought that he would just meet their demands because he’s in a foreign country and instead he went to see a lawyer. He thought it would be over within a few months but it took almost a year before he won his case.
During the experience, we were all thinking the same thing even though we knew that he hadn’t done anything wrong – Did the fact that these people were pursuing a case against him mean that they had a case? Did they know something that we didn’t?
This whole experience was very costly and greatly impacted him. He stopped sleeping due to mounting concerns that he was going to be landed with a whopping bill and yet at the same time, he knew he hadn’t done anything wrong and yet at the same time, he kept doubting himself.
Due to the work I do here at Baggage Reclaim and the various situations that people share with me, I’m all too aware that not only do people do outrageous stuff and basically wing it due to what can be their delusions of grandeur and believing that they’re outwitting everyone (or just simply not wanting to admit they’ve made a mistake), but that every day, people judge the existence, brazenness and aggressiveness of other people’s actions and take this as an indicator that they must have done something wrong and that they must have a ‘case’ to answer for.
You don’t actually have to have a legitimate case in order to go to court but many people make the assumption that if they are going to court that this in itself must mean that there’s a legitimate case. They might feel very intimidated and agree to settle and actually, this is what people who pull this rinky dinky BS rely on.
Equally, a person doesn’t actually have to have done anything wrong in order to be mistreated by another person but many people make the assumption that if they’re being treated badly it’s because they’ve invited it in some way. It’s why a lot of abuse goes unreported, unprosecuted and internalised as being the fault of the victim.
It’s the evidence of the other person’s behaviour that causes the doubt. It’s the assumption that evidence exists due to cause stemming from ‘fault’, when actually, the evidence of their behaviour is the evidence of their character.
It bugged me for ages that these people were doing what they were and I kept wondering, What do they know that we don’t know? What are they exploiting? And then a bit of digging revealed that of course a person doesn’t give a monkey’s about running up court costs if they’re not paying it due to insurance. This helped my friend sleep a bit easier but even then, right up until the moment he received notification of the judgment, he had his doubts. It was the same with another friend whose ex took her to court over the kids he’d refused to acknowledge or financially support and blocked her from leaving the country when she wanted to move.
They’re not pulling this shite due to your ‘worth’ as a person or some eff up on your part – they’re doing it out of ego.
If you’ve been wondering if someone’s mistreatment of you is justified, what they’re doing is exploiting the fact that you’re questioning your worth and even attempting to appease them in the process, possibly while giving them a free pass on responsibility and accountability.
It’s not that they have insider knowledge about that One False Move you made that they’re building their whole mistreatment case around.
You could sit there from here to eternity and ruminate over, “Was it this? Was it that? Was it that time I didn’t answer the phone on three rings? Is it because I wouldn’t have a three-way? Is it because I said that I felt uncomfortable with them disrespecting my boundaries? It’s because I slept with him/her after a week, isn’t it? It’s because I gave them too much? Maybe I should have given them more? Is it because I had needs? Because, because, because, because…”
I know we like to think that there’s a reason for everything but the reason for ‘everything’ doesn’t have to be about you.
It’s not about you. The reason why someone is mistreating you is because that’s what they do. You can do the work to address why you’re still there or why you’re internalising their behaviour but what you cannot do is see you as an extension of their behaviour.
Character doesn’t go out of fashion nor can it change on a daily basis or from person to person. You’re not the first to experience this and you won’t be the last. Sadly. You don’t ‘provoke’ people into doing shady stuff by just breathing and believing that you’re an unworthy person. Regardless of what you’re feeling about you, they’re being themselves.
Your thoughts?
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Brilliant writing, Natalie. It’s all there in a very elegant nutshell!
Thank you. It took me a long long time to learn this.
It took me years to learn this:
Love Does NOT Hurt
Love is Easy with the right person.
After 12 years of being single and lots of reasons to to check out this blog ….I am happy to announce that I have met the love of my life and he feels the same way too! My guy speaks often of his feelings for me and wanting this relationship to have a future is his idea that make this comfortable.
To place this in perspective. I will be 64 this summer. I met a client this week who is madly in love at 67 and another friend who is 71 and having the best sex of her life. We have all met our great men on Match.com.
There is no Drama and none of us will tolerate any! Listen to what Nat has to say! Love is worth the wait. DO NOT GIVE UP!
Congratulations, VF Lady! I’m 57 and still waiting.
Valley Forge Lady – you and your friend and your client inspire me! I am 55 and you are telling me there is hope! Would you mind saying which area of the country you are in….maybe I am looking in all the wrong places. Very happy for you and your guy…..
I am SO HAPPY for you Valley Forge Lady!!!!! I wish you and your new love all the best in the world!!! 🙂
Valley Forge Lady what wonderful news! You are so right about Do Not Give Up.
I have a bit of news of my own — not really so dramatic as yours, but it’s early days yet, early days. Was at a music gig with a girlfriend a few weeks ago, have to admit to being very merry and acting quite full of the silly joys of spring, and a man crossed the room to meet me. We talked and laughed and danced for a couple hours and he said “I won’t let you leave until you give me your phone number”. He’s fabulous. Handsome, smart, kind, funny, empathic, single 12 years, in a good solid responsible career and known throughout the community and beyond (he’s actually stopped in the street for chats by people who’ve known him). He takes me to films and suppers and more gigs — whatever I want, and it’s great fun. But I don’t think he would have caught the right vibes from me when I was still in recovery mode or still processing the awful experiences of last year. Understanding what’s here on BR has played a large part in getting through that and coming out the other side better, stronger, and a whole lot smarter.
@Grizelda,
That is awesome!!! He noticed the light that you were shining, that was only meant for you! Way to go:)
Yeah Grizelda. Sounds really wonderful. BR and doing the work can work wonders. It must be very different from the mistreatment shite the AC’s dish out. Here’s the thingy though, keep your BR lenses on without going into hpyer-vigilance mode. Have tons of fun with your self-esteem in tow. It’s truyly amazing to see how many BR ladies have come out the other side, better, stronger, and a whole lot smarter. Nat is a saint. Oh and do keep us posted, please?
Very well put Nat – sometimes we need to be reminded – they are just being themselves and that really shouldn’t surprise you. There is a reason you are no longer together and that reason has nothing to do with you.
Yes, people also have a tendency to assume that dramatic effects have dramatic causes, but this is just a common thinking fallacy.
Well-done and thank you!
So, what if the one who caused the hurt reads this article and says, “Wonderful! It wasn’t me!”??? How screwy is that?!
I think it is common in the early days of NC or a split to analyse the situation to death. I certainly was guilty of “One False Move” mentality. Was it because I got drunk that one time? Was it because I confessed to having had an eating disorder nearly 20 years ago? Was it because I didn’t have the “correct” very personal grooming? Was it because I didn’t earn enough money? Nope, nope, nope, nope. It was all about him and his long standing behaviours. Then, when you start to see the light, round two starts…. Was it because I wasn’t tough enough? Didn’t make him wait even longer for sex? Didn’t call him out on his rinky dink BS? Didn’t make myself unavailable enough? Showed him how much I cared? Again, nope! It is still about him. That second round of behaviours has contributed to how I feel about it and how invested I felt. It would not however have changed any of the outcomes which were totally preordained, long before our eyes met across the room etc.
We need to make the distinction between our responsibility for how others treat us (little to none) and our responsibility to ourselves in how quickly we disengage and stay far away from the source of pain. That is where our responsibility lies. Like Nat is always saying, you had better have your own back.
Tabitha, why do you think the outcome was preordained? Someone told me that about my situation. That the outcome was inevitable. I can’t seem to shake it.
I think this because he had a pattern of behaviour. He was 48 and had never had a serious relationship, other than one that was on/off/on/off over many years with his previous fallback girl. He used to dump her when he got tired of her, go off with someone else, then pick up with her again when all his other options ran out.Obviously I didn’t realise all thsi when we first met. She had come to her senses finally – I dunno, maybe she found BR, and she had been NC with him for 2 years when we met. So he had a serious fallback girl shortage. He thought, quite rightly as it goes, that I was ripe for that position. However, I had some kind of angel watching over me who guided me to this site, and I was able, over a few months, to extricate myself and to somehow resist his hoovers when he wanted me back.
It was hard, really hard to do NC with him. Probably one of teh hardest things I have ever gone through. Harder than both my divorces. Harder than going NC with my own mother.
So, when I say it was preordained I mean I was interchangeable to him. It wasn’t about me at all. I wsa actually a lovely girlfriend to him. Something he told me repeatedly. He knew he was “fucked up” and incapable of a proper relationship. That didn’t stop him offering that to me at the start though, even though he knew he could not deliver.
I don’t mean it was preordained in any divine kind of way, just in terms of the fact that he had a perpetual and destructive pattern of relationship behaviour. I hope this helps.
Thsnks, Tabitha. That does help and it’s quite insightful
Tabitha…I could have written this part myself:
” It wasn’t about me at all. I was actually a lovely girlfriend to him. Something he told me repeatedly. He knew he was “fucked up” and incapable of a proper relationship. That didn’t stop him offering that to me at the start though, even though he knew he could not deliver.”
I almost pity the next girlfriend. Amazing how they suck you in so easily, its hard to resist their charm if your not BR educated…She will eventually endure the same fate as I did.
Wow. I’m grateful for the timing of this blog. I really need help right now and I don’t know what to do.. not from a legal standpoint I have attorneys, but from a reputation, business, emotional management perspective.
I’m going through something along the lines of what you describe above and for the past two months I’ve been suffering from what I have self diagnosed as PTSD.
I couldn’t speak about what happened until just a few days ago. I was afraid for my safety, still am, and it triggered me to the point where I couldn’t stop crying.
Without divulging too much, I was volunteering full time for a charity, I built and created for what was an incredible evening to benefit the charity. What most were unaware of is that the woman managing the evening was signing contracts under the table so she could pad vendors contracts to benefit herself and put in her own pocket.
When the money she estimated to be raised did not come to fruition, she got scared and pointed the finger at me. I had set the budget and she multiplied it by 4x under the table unbeknownst to me or anyone. This was her first run in a big city with huge names involved and her eyes got bigger than the actual stomach of the evening. She was clearly clueless.
She sent my home address, phone, personal information and all of these false accusations to about 500 people in my network including my clients and business contacts. Some very important people I have spent years developing relationships with.. this woman by herself is not credible, but my x-business partner is backing her now because I told him I would tell nothing but the truth about my susupcions regarding her.. he didn’t want it getting out to the media, etc.
To top that off, another woman associated with the evening in another capacity tried to force me out because she wanted to own the brand I built and created. When she saw this other woman throw me out to be eaten by wolves.. I suspect it was a convenient way for her to attempt to send me away to prison so she could assume leadership over my brand. She then started a campaign telling god knows how many people… could be 100 or more for all I know, with the event that I stole her credit card and charged 16k USD. The hotel obviously knows I didn’t do it.. but it seems many people don’t care to verify and have just taken this information as fact.
First off I knew I didn’t do that.. and I suspected with great comfort there was a video camera. And.. as I suspected there was a video camera. It clearly proves I did not do it…..and the hotel knows the truth.
The real issue is that both of these women together have made sure this rumor is out to everyone in my business network. I have lost business deals, relationships… people literally will not speak to me and I did NOTHING!
Above and beyond all that, the one that puts a stake through my heart, is the man who I considered to be a brother, was aware these two women were doing this to me and went to go work with them instead of me…Why? He was the one who owed the funds legally to any contracts signed with vendors… there were literally maybe one signed contract.
This man was more comfortable scapegoating me with these women. I was in shock when he turned on me.. He’s clearly lying about everything and I have it documented. With me nothing is here say. All in writing or taped and transcribed.
The fact he is loosely working with them?, It makes the rumors these woman are spreading, more validated because people knew this man and I were friends. The rumors must be true if both he and I are not longer in contact? That’s what I assume they believe.
His actions? More painful than all of the other stuff because I considered him to be friend. Could not believe he did not defend me.
Anyway, my biggest concern is my reputation. There is so much damage.
WHAT DO I DO? I’m literally dying inside. I cannot believe someone would go to the extent to truly attempt to put me in prison. I’ve got a civil case… but my issue I’m seeking insight for are the the emotional and communication.
If people will not call me to speak with me. or take my calls. What the hell do I do? They are not friends.. they were business acquaintances…but I’ve lost my clients and business now all because I volunteered for charity and refused to tell nothing but the truth.
It’s frightening. I would love your advice.. on how to handle communication? Also, why would this other woman accuse me of stealing her credit card? I’m so curious why she thought she could get away with it.. but more than that… how is someone able to falsely accuse someone of a crime knowing they didn’t do it and knowing you may ruin their life? How can anyone do that?
I’m a mess. I have not left the house and have been severely depressed. Please help
p.s. this is so much information and ridiculously long.. I apologize. There are likely grammar and spelling errors because my insomnia is so bad, I don’t sleep for days at a time because of this situation.
Melissa
Oof, how unpleasant for you. Maybe if you are able to stop trying to understand the criminal mind it will give you more energy to tackle what really matters? I find you can only do so much and the why-do-they question is very draining.
@grace…Very true..Iv’e wasted so much time and energy in the past trying to play phychologist on my own to some messed up assholes in the past..Now i just feel sorry for them in hindsight…And actually wish them well.
Melissa, I really feel for you. I have a legal issue at the moment and I understand just how stressful the process is. If people won’t speak to you right now I would stop trying and instead let your attorneys deal with the situation. They are objective and will gather the facts to defend you. You have evidence to support yourself and eventually this will come out. Right now you need to find ways to cope with the emotional fall-out of the situation. I can imagine how scared you must be and as for your “friend” it must feel as if he has betrayed you,I understand just how painful that is. Have you any family and friends who can help support you right now? It might also be a good idea to go and see a therapist to help you through. Right now you are in the thick of it, but eventually you will be able to start to rebuild your life again. In the meantime, try to take each day as it comes. Hang in there; you will get through this. Sending hugs and lots of support your way.
omg this is awful all I can really say sweetie is pray pray pray without ceasing u kno the devil goes in for the attack whn ur one of gods children im so sorry this has happened to u but there are som bad people in this world I kno that it wont b easy but god got it..prayer works believ me
Hey Melissa, sounds like you’re having a horrendous time. I’m not really sure what actions you can take against these despicable people but, for your own self-care, something did spring to mind. Natalie recently posted a picture on Facebook, it was a beautiful yet intimidating picture of a lion with the quote “if you expect the world to be fair with you because you are fair, you are fooling yourself. That’s like expecting the lion not to eat you because you didn’t eat him”.
These people are not like you and you will never understand them. They are different animals who do not think or act like you – that is all you need to know. Trying to make sense of their actions to fit in with your own value structure is NEVER going to happen and is a waste of your energy. I say this from personal experience of doing this far too often.
Just understand that the things that might cause you to act that way are not the same motivators for them. If you are going to fight, understand your vulnerabilities, (because this is what mainpulators instinctively know), build some armour around them, and lastly, realise that you are going to have to learn some new tatics yourself which may feel uncomfortable but will strengthen you in the long run. If that means you have to be a ‘bitch’in this particular instance, then by all means, get to it. Stand by yourself and your values – the people that respect those qualities will gravitate to you and the ones you lose you don’t want a piece of anyways, professionally or otherwise. Good luck to you 😉
Ugh, this is so timely for me. A male ” friend” recently asked me to leave an illegal substance for him at the school district where we work- an outrageous, potentially dangerous request that had me dumbfounded by the impunity of it. This man, whom i have known for several years & have been a shoulder to cry on while he flip flaps between a girlfriend and a wife, has proven to be a selfish, utterly thoughtless person with no regard for my safety, reputation or job status. This came almost immediately after I professed feelings toward him of a romantic nature, so I was deeply hurt by his behavior. I hit the BR library and books I own and got a grip…what did I expect from a person who is mistreating and lying to everyone of value in his life? I’m NOT going to be the exception. I told him how I felt, this was his reaction and he’s revealed his leeching character. Why do I, his wife and mistress give airplay to shady men like this? I’ve since flushed him, but as far as I know he continues to play his wife and gf, a situation that has gone on for YEARS!
sounds familiar to me! Men that literally just can’t have emotions or be empathetic towards people that like/love them / are close to them… You showing emotions to them in a positive way, is like a free ride for them to exploit you for their own agenda/needs!
….sounds like a narcissist, maybe?
I think the thing is simply that someone who behaves with plain empathy and compassion, someone who has a HEALTHY approach to other people or romantic things doesn’t make you feel bad about yourself or question yourself of make you think that you have done something wrong for being treated so bad.
I think that’s the point.
Of course you may get to know people and you just don’t have the same wavelength, you just don’t fit but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they were mean in any way or overstepped your boundaries- provided they have a healthy approach to human beings.
If they are not healthy they can become mean… that’s how I understood this post!
Please help me.
Two years ago, this man who is my friend’s cousin, living in another country, wouldn’t stop pursuing me even though he had a long term girlfriend. I was very flattered (he is the handsomest, most socially beloved including his large family and hugely succesful investment banker). I had no clue what he saw in me, just a very ordinary person with many many flaws. I had never even had a boyfriend before him. He was so so ardent when pursuing, I thought he really must want to leave his girlfriend, and I was only too happy to have someone that wonderful into my life. I was happier than I had ever ever been, no one had ever made me feel so adored and loved.
And then, after 5 weeks and getting physical, it was awkward and he RAN. DROPPED me, began cheating on me and not eve bothering to hide it on facebook, would IM once every two weeks and after I would respond, would stop. Then after 6 months of this, and me going crazy at pictures of him with another (drop dead gorgous) woman, he dumped me. Said he never saw himself with me and didnt say so earlier as I would get “too emotional”. He wouldnt even put on the video on skype. Just texted.
I think I died on my feet. I spent an entire year of NC (waiting and waiting for him to come back, nothing.)
After the year was out, I came to the same country to study at Uni. I had begun to despise where I was, feeling that was one reason he had left me, I wasn’t good enough to be a part of a modern culture like him. When he found out, he started messaging again, but in the hot and cold way. And he was back with the girlfriend he had said he was going to leave when he seemed to be going out of his mind chasing me.
I wont go into the many many painful details, but please help me Natalie, or anyone. If he mistreated me, he’s still so loyal to her? He’s been with her for 5 years now. And he treats her like a queen: you should see the way he treats me, he even talks to me like I’m trash.
I can’t stop crying and feeling HOPELESS over this. Please help. If he truly is a bad person, I MUST bring that out. SHE only brings out the best, most loving caring and committing side of him. She refers to herself as his fiance, and he is “my husband to be”. What is it about this guy that he is someone women fight over and kill themselves over? He really MUST be the catch of the century, the way he is coveted.
he is skilled in playing you both very well. He is someone that need the attention of women and I guess one women will never be enough !
You have to ask yourself: Why are you still interested in him? He treats you like trash? You want to be together with him but he made clear that he won’t leave his girlfriend (actions speak ways louder than words!)?
What is it that gives you hope and strength in him? And again : WHY the hell do you degrade yourself so much , why do you think you don’t deserve to be treated with care, respect and decency? What prevents you of saying NO and living NO with his guy?
Rebecca
How does chasing you mean that he’s loyal to her? Loyal men and women don’t have more than one love or sex interest.
You have him on a pedestal but he’s just another AC. If he wasn’t doing it to you two he’d be doing it to someone else. Your only contribution is that you engage with him.
Hiya rebecca
He doesn’t treat her like a queen. He cheats on her behind her back, chases other women with ardent declarations of love and makes an absolute fool out of her.
Would you want a relationship with someone who did that? I mean, a REAL relationship, where you tie your lives together and have children together and rely on them for your emotional wellbeing and that of your family? Wouldn’t that be a bit of a precarious and miserable existence, given that he seems to change his mind every two minutes about what he wants?
He doesn’t have a split personality, with a nice side and a horrible side. He is who he is and he believes what he believes about whether you should treat people with care, honesty and respect. The only difference between you and the other woman is that he’s lying to her and not to you. And that’s probably only because he knows that you know that he’s a git and there’s no point pretending any more.
If women fight over him then it’s probably because he’s very good at manipulating insecure women. I know a number of drop-dead gorgeous, mega-lovely, successful and brilliant men (alas, all taken) who are incredible catches but DON’T have women fighting over them. Frankly, that’s because it is weird – folk who are genuinely happy and getting on with their lives neither fight over partners nor need to be fought over.
As for you (and bearing in mind that everyone has flaws and I’ve never met a single person who is totally unworthy of love), the only thing that’s wrong with you is that you’re putting up with this creep – and a good-looking rich successful charming creep is just as creepy as a filthy old man creep – and letting him make a mess of your life. Stop it. Go NC – proper NC – where you endeavour to stop seeing yourself and the world (and him!) through his eyes – because if you continue letting him rob you of your self-respect and confidence then you’ll end up in a worse position than you would be after a thousand years as an unhassled single woman.
One day, I hope, you’ll read this post back and realise how absolutely poisonous this dude sounds from the outside – a smarmy manipulative advantage-taking spoilt spineless unkind dishonest uncompassionate gitface extraordinaire. Not your dream man. Only ever pretending and lying about being your dream man. Run away fast.
Yogurt,
“If women fight over him then it’s probably because he’s very good at manipulating insecure women. I know a number of drop-dead gorgeous, mega-lovely, successful and brilliant men (alas, all taken) who are incredible catches but DON’T have women fighting over them. Frankly, that’s because it is weird – folk who are genuinely happy and getting on with their lives neither fight over partners nor need to be fought over. ”
A to the MEN!!!
Totally agree! Also, please note that NC is NEVER supposed to be a strategy to “win” back some toxic and abusive guy. It.simply.does.not.work. It only leads to additional harm. Full stop.
And btw., it is not a way to “win” a good person back either, because then it would not be NC, but a very manipulative and abusive tactic called “the silent treatment”.
@ EllyB
Very wise advice and very succinct:)
Thank you. But as I’ve mentioned on someone else’s post, there must be SOMETHING wrong with me for INSISTING on seeing this guy as some demi (oh who am I kidding, actual God Almighty)God, no matter HOW many times I’m told he’s trash. I just find myself thinking “oh you wouldn’t say that if he asked you out tomorrow, or if you saw him , or if you spoke to him”.
When he was coming onto me very very heavily, he still had not left the girlfriend (I was so so naive, I thought it was understood), he showed me pictures of them together and it makes me literally sick to my stomach to think of now: over a hundred of them(theyre probably 500 by now): in a hundred locations with them looking like the most adoring couple…and I am the one who gets treated like something a dog dragged in after it rained. He IS capable of being truly committed, but just to her. Me he sees fit to treat as he thinks best: with selfish contempt.
It hurts so so BAD, thinking of what he promised me and what I did to screw it up, that he gets from her and what he gives her. And she’s SO happy, she’s the envy of her friends and her family thinks she’s made it big time.
Okay doke. Here we go…
Firstly,
“there must be SOMETHING wrong with me for INSISTING on seeing this guy as some demi (oh who am I kidding, actual God Almighty)God, no matter HOW many times I’m told he’s trash.”
This is mega-passive, chick. You know, you can’t help how you feel about someone, and expecting yourself to just go ‘click’ and suddenly be repulsed by him is unrealistic. Having said that, you DO have control over your actions and you CAN choose whether or not you ACT on those feelings by continuing to see him.
Rationally, you know that as he a) has a girlfriend b) behaves nastily and c) lies a lot, this guy is a bad bet and will not make you happy in the long-term, proper-relationship way that you’d like to be happy. And you know that he is making you miserable. So ACT on your KNOWLEDGE – your feelings tend to follow your actions anyway so acting on your feelings alone is just a big dark road to nowhere.
You can choose. Of course, you can pretend that you’re completely passive and helpless if you like, but you’ll be lying to yourself and doing yourself a disservice.
“I just find myself thinking “oh you wouldn’t say that if he asked you out tomorrow, or if you saw him , or if you spoke to him”.”
Possibly not – I do have my own prediliction for creeps, which is how I ended up here. But, having said that, I hope that once I realised that a bloke had a girlfriend I’d think it through and realise that a) it’s not a good use of my time, energy and emotion to invest in him b) it’s not morally right to try and pinch him off someone else and c) he’s clearly not a good bet for a long-term commitment, given that he’s sneaky. Those things are your headline data, ignoring them because of a footnote that says “Oh, but he’s so hot!” is like ignoring Stalin’s gulags because he had a cool moustache.
“And she’s SO happy, she’s the envy of her friends and her family thinks she’s made it big time.”
If your only criteria for being happy is a relationship is that your deluded, misled friends and family approve then yep, you’ve missed out. However, I credit you with more intelligence than that. Sorry about the horrible analogy, but if you spray a piece of faeces with gold paint and stick it on your mantelpiece then everyone might admire your beautiful ornament from a distance but when it comes down to it you’ve still got a piece of shit in your living-room. And sooner or later you’re going to have to deal with the smell.
Sorry to go to town on you like this (it’s actually him that I’m cross at, not you!) but as long as you choose to interact with this fella then you’re choosing to make yourself unhappy and to see yourself as a sorry failure. And that’s a Bad Choice.
@Yoghurt
I just can’t stop hating and blaming myself, and beating myself up for not being as lovable as the gf. When he was being the pursuer, he really made me believe it was his mission in life to MARRY me, and for some pathetic reason, the way he made me feel while doing that…I had NEVER had that before. And right now, I feel like a loser personified because it was so easy for someone like him to pick me up and throw me away at will.
The gf guards him like he’s this billion pound necklace and every woman he speaks to it a thief, and for good reason, seeing how any woman who I know who knows him is carrying a torch for him.
If he’s really that bad, would all these women be going gaga for him.
I don’t know what you mean about being passive…I no longer communicate with this guy (it was always him who initiated anyway, via lazy communication ie IM and text and email)and he’d clean out of my life, but I feel TERRIBLE. Like I cant STAND myself and all that I am, and all I can think about is how happy he made me feel and then how terrible it was when he just threw it and me all away and went back to this gf as if shes the one worth sticking around for and I’m the one to throw away in the gutter.
He may well be very pleased with himself and mega-confident, but I don’t think that he’s happy. Happy people want to grow in intimate, trustful, caring and honest relationships. That’s not what he’s doing.
“The gf guards him like he’s this billion pound necklace and every woman he speaks to it a thief, and for good reason, seeing how any woman who I know who knows him is carrying a torch for him.”
Eep! How horrible must that be? What a life to be leading. I think I’d rather have an ordinary-looking man that I could rely on.
Sorry, I thought that you were still in contact with him. But I still think that it’s passive to say that because he rejected you, you have to feel bad for the rest of your days. Fight it! You CAN choose how to see this – you can go along with his lifeview that says “Me heap big winner – gold! looks! women! All my rejects will never recover from the TRAUMA of losing the wonderful ME!!!” I mean, doesn’t that just suck for everyone in the world except him?
Or you can force your mind to accept what we’re saying, which is that there’s more to life than being rich/good-looking/charming/manipulative and bamboozling people into doing your will. That EVERYONE is worthwhile whether they get validation from rich good-looking charming people or not. Whether they mess up a relationship or not. And whether they get picked up, used and rejected or not (happens to the best of us – so what? Let yourself off the hook, it was just an error of judgement, and we all need those to grow).
And then you live like you believe it – reread rev’s comment below and begin tomorrow! Prepare and eat lovely food. Go and have an adventure that you’ve always wanted to have. Plan an inpromptu visit to a theme park with your mates – ANYTHING that shows everyone and (more importantly) you that you’re happy to be alive in this beautiful world – whether you actually feel that way or not.
Even if you don’t believe it, try it anyway. The worst that’ll happen is that you’ll still be miserable with some nice experiences under your belt and at best you’ll realise that it’s TRUE.
Thank you for replying. It truly means alot, everyone’s replies.
I was NC, proper NC, for one entire year. In that year I was the busiest person I know. It still failed. I genuinely don’t think theres any way out of this. I’ve looked and looked and made fresh start after fresh start. I genuinely don’t believe i’ll be free.
Oh good, I’m glad if it’s in any way helpful, because I do feel a bit like I’m beating you around the head. I’d also say at this point that I think revolution is right in suggesting therapy, because there are some things that you can’t get through on your own and this sounds like it may be one for you.
Inconsistency alert, though! Before, you said “I think I died on my feet. I spent an entire year of NC (waiting and waiting for him to come back, nothing.)” This is not “I was NC, proper NC, for one entire year. In that year I was the busiest person I know. It still failed”.
What I suspect is happening – and I’m going off my own experiences now so I’ll happily admit that I might be wrong – is that you’re colouring the whole of the last two(?) years by the way that you feel now. I’d guess that in that year you DID make progress and you DID feel happier at times. But when he came back on the scene you justified your renewed contact with him by saying something along the lines of “Well, I pined for him for a whole year, and that just goes to show that it HAS to work out”.
About once every two/three months or so (they’re getting further and further apart) something brings everything up for me and I have a few days of going “I’ll NEVER be over what happened, I’ve been nothing but MISERABLE since I met him and now my WHOLE LIFE is RUINED”. It’s like being in a hole – when you fall in it then you can’t see out and you can’t imagine not being in it.
Truth is that, actually, my life isn’t ruined and even in my darkest days of not-being-okay, I still had moments (sometimes even minutes!) of feeling enjoyment and happiness. I’ll go on record as saying that I’m pretty happy now and that even if something sends me right back tomorrow then it won’t mean that my life since the pregnancy has been unrelieved misery.
If you can honestly say that there hasn’t been a moment since this happened that you haven’t forgotten about it and had a good time then that’s terrible and awful for you and you really must get immeidate help, because even short bursts of it have a negative impact on your health (at my worst I can’t eat, so I would’ve wasted away to nothing if I’d felt like that all the time).
On the other hand, don’t write off your entire past and your entire future on the way that you feel about it right now. If you feel bad you feel bad, and it’s natural to grieve. It doesn’t mean that you’re doomed forever, or that you’re a freak, or that the whole of your life to date has been a waste. It just means that you feel bad now, in the same way that you might feel ill. And if you DO have hours/days of feeling happy, they aren’t then meaningless if you slip back later. Feeling happy is feeling happy and it’s good.
I’d also take this opportunity to point out that, if you are retrospectively colouring your past and projecting onto your future, it’s even more of an argument to STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM, no matter how many blocked emails he sends. He will only plunge you back into this.
Long, sorry! Signing off now, but really hope that you find peace on this one. Life is too short.
I’d just add (cos it isn’t long enough already, like) that when I feel bad I feel just as bad as I did when it was going on – the sensation hasn’t softened with age! And that’s confusing, because it does feel like you haven’t made any progress at all.
But recognising that I feel like that every two months rather than, say, every other day helps. One day those stretches will be so far apart that they’ll just hopefully bog off altogether.
excellent analysis, yoghurt, on all entries, & their points & levels.
Ok, Rebecca,
He’s your first bf so I’m giving you a break. But, based on your posts, you need to call a suicide hotline and/or take yourself to the emergency room at the hospital. I’m serious. Something isn’t right here and it’s got nothing to do with your lovability.
Based on the intensity of your posts and your comments of hating yourself and wanting to kill yourself I believe you may need medical attention. I hope I’m wrong but I also hope you see a doctor to rule out any underlying medical issues.
You say you want help but aren’t listening to anything anyone has to say. The guy’s a jerk and you’ve only known him for 5 weeks and you’re ready to kill yourself. Wow! Please, please seek professional help. The suicide hotline can probably refer you to a low-cost therapist if money’s an issue.
Oh, and Rebecca? I may sound cold but I’m posting because I care.
Prayers for your safety and healing.
@Rosie
Trust me, I’ve been in this situation for over 2 years now (!!!:'( ) do you think I haven’t had people get mad at me, disgusted with me, and in the end drop me? I really have reached the stage where I feel abnormal about this. And I lie awake at night partly recalling what happened and the horror of it and mostly, now, WHEN will it STOP, LET ME OUT, I even pray one constant prayer which I am SO ANGRY has gone unanswered: “please God let me forget his face, the entire thing, and for him to have NO power over me, NO power”. Its a prayer that is NOT being answered and I pray it with my heart and soul every second of the day
Rebecca,
It’s sounding more and more like you are suffering from a major bout of obsessive negative thinking that no amount of willpower, prayer or great advice from others (and you’ve gotten plenty from the wise BR ladies!) can stop. It’s more than just a bad habit, or even an addiction – it’s truly a disordered thinking syndrome that takes over your mind. And the more it’s reinforced – and two years of these continual thoughts has strengthened it plenty – the more it digs a groove in your mind where these awful and very frightening thoughts naturally flow without any effort, but just like trying to stop a raging river, you can’t stop this flow on your own. We can’t leap in the river and help you.
This is why you MUST get some professional help NOW and tell someone everything you’ve been telling us. The wonderful people on BR have given you the best insight and advice under the sun, but I fear that you cannot get any benefit from it because of this terrible trap your thinking is caught in. It’s not a failure of willpower or that you’re “choosing” to keep yourself in this awful place. I know. I’ve been there. You DO have the power to control and manage these thoughts, but you need professional help to teach you how – AND most importantly, help you understand the deeper issues around this that are clearly going on with YOU and really have nothing to do with this creep at all. He just triggered it for some reason.
Lastly, try to remember that you are MORE than your thoughts and feelings. They are out of whack right now and overwhelming, but they are not YOU. If you can find some non-mind techniques, such as meditation or body work, to put you in touch with your non-cerebral self, the self that’s beyond the mind, that might be helpful. Or if reading helps, read Eckhart Tolle’s books The Power of Now and A New Earth. They are ALL about the terrible traps our minds get stuck in and how we can get some peace from that.
Your posts have struck a painful chord with me, as with many here, and if we’ve been able to move beyond this awful place where you are now, we want to reassure you that it CAN get better and it WILL get better. But time alone is not helping, is it. Clearly you can’t “think” your way out of this problem – the next step is to take action and go for professional help. DO IT!
“If he’s really that bad, would all these women be going gaga for him.”
Do you watch the Big Bang Theory? Did you see the episode where a beautiful girl moves in, and she charms the guys into moving her stuff, hooking up her stereo etc? And they are just sooo happy to help her. Penny tries to tell them that she’s just taking advantage, but they don’t believe her – they think she’s just a nice girl who needs them?
Some people can charm like nobody’s business. They can get lots of people to do all kinds of things for them. They love the attention. They need the attention. They take what they can get. They rely on good looks and charm. They have no shortage of people who flutter around, happy to give them whatever they need. A lot of the time these people who flutter around have low self esteem. They feel that if someone that good looking/popular/rich etc needs them, that must mean something about them…that they must be pretty darn special to be chosen. A person with healthy self esteem opts out of being on the list of people who are happy to give give give. Unfortunately, those of us who have found our way here don’t have that self esteem where it needs to be…yet.
Is there something inside of you that feels that you’re only worthy if the ______ guy wants you (fill in the blank…the popular kid maybe?). For me, I always felt that I didn’t fit in with the popular kids, the rich kids, the good looking kids. So I know that I have that weak spot, and that if the “cool kid” comes and gives me attention, it triggers something inside of me.
I doubt that this guy is all that special. In fact, he sounds like an arse. The funny thing is that I can sit back and say he’s an arse, we can all sit back and say he’s an arse, but I know that you’re thinking “but you don’t know him, you don’t know the whole story”. Been there!! Just like Penny trying to warn the guys that the new pretty girl was using them.
His popularity has nothing to do with his character, or whether or not he’s a great guy.
You deserve better.
http://youtu.be/bVQdlvTRfWM
@yoghurt
“Sorry about the horrible analogy, but if you spray a piece of faeces with gold paint and stick it on your mantelpiece then everyone might admire your beautiful ornament from a distance but when it comes down to it you’ve still got a piece of shit in your living-room. And sooner or later you’re going to have to deal with the smell.:
That was brilliant; spot on, and really funny as well. Rebeccadewinter….please CHOOSE to come out of your self-torment and stop choosing to do this to yourself…you are better than this, right:(?
Cheers 🙂
Gross, though, right?
It’s hilarious…been laughing for 10 minutes. So true!
Yoghurt: I so wish I had met someone like you when I was 18 years old and got dumped by some guy after 6 weeks of dating! He wasn’t an investment banker and he wasn’t married or attached either, but he was 30 years old and a PHD student, and to me this jerk looked like the best thing since sliced bread.
When he suddenly broke up with me, I was devasted. I was totally convinced that it was ME who drove im away, my “immaturity”, my imperfection, too much competition from “greater” ladies and so on. Unfortunately, I’m still somewhat clinging to that idea, more than 15 years later, but I feel that my attitude towards this experience is slowly changing. Thanks to you, to NML and to all other posters on BR!
He was my first boyfriend ever. Plus, during those first 18 years I had suffered severe abuse by my entire family as well as severe bullying at school. Everybody – EVERYBODY – but especially my narcissistic mother always told me that everything was my fault, that there was something seriously wrong with me and that I was an incredibly despicable person.
Of course I put this guy on a very high pedestal (and I still do, despite not having seen him for more than 10 years – force of habit I think). I’m so grateful for all the people here who help me set my mind straight… I only wish I had met you all earlier!
Heya elly
Tbh I wish *I’d* met someone like me (now, after two years of intensive BRing!) – and someone like Nat and all the rest of the BR crew, come to that – when I was eighteen as well. I was with the ‘popular kid’ (frontman of the band, houseful of people every night yadiyadiya) for three months when I was eighteen and would you believe that it took me TWELVE YEARS to get over him properly. It’s only recently that he popped up on fb and I realised that I don’t woodle after him or see him as the Great Opportunity Missed any more.
I love this site; and thank you back because you’ve set me straight a couple of times. And what I love about my life now is that it doesn’t matter that the ‘cool’ people might not think that it’s all that, and it doesn’t matter that the 18-year-old me would’ve regarded it as a Living Death, and it doesn’t matter that so far no incredibly hot guys have volunteered to share it with me. Because I like it and I’m happy about it, and I don’t need anyone else to tell me whether it’s worthwhile or not.
Please try to understand this… “Truly committed” men do not mess around with other women. Period. You are not seeing him clearly. You are not seeing your situation clearly. This guy is no catch, no prize. Don’t envy the girlfriend – she has a cheating liar on her hands, not a truly committed anything, who not only cheats but treats other women in appalling ways. Sounds like a first class asshole to me. Explain to me again why this guy is God to you?
He treats HER wonderfully. He’s even introduced her to his family and she’s a strong presence in his life, and the envy of every other woman who knows her. Her own family thinks she’s majorly successful for having landed the biggest catch out there. He treats ME like dirt because he feels himself justified, like I haven’t earned his respect, and she has.
He says he didnt cheat, he had been fighting with her and when he met me he thought it was going to work out but it didnt.
I just wish I could get the image of the two of them being and doing what I thought I was going to get, and with the man who made me fall for him, OUT OF MY MIND FOREVER, it literally wakes me up in the middle of the night, stops me right in the middle of my food.
Rebecca,
How long were you together?
around two months when he was pursuing and I was agreeing to it all, hardly able to believe it. Then after a physical intimacy session (we had had others before which were good but this one somehow went ALL wrong) after which he left the country within days, wouldnt officially dump me yet would message off and on even even though I kept saying “you don’t feel the same way anymore, admit it”, for another five months. Finally dumped me then. Over text on skype, no camera. Said “you still have this affect”, and that “youre not someone I imagined spending the rest of my life with”, and “I didnt want to do this for two more years and say it then” and when I asked him why he kept messaging when he knew I wasnt the one “I was naturally upset”. And wen I said why didn’t you just tell me all this “because. you would have got too emotional.” These are all exact quotes to my exact questions. I think he was probably back with the girlfriend by this point. He has been after me to meet her ever since I came to the country, despite me telling him I have feelings and it would literally break my heart there and then. He still insists. AND SHE told him to give him MY number and asked to meet me for food and that she would “love” to meet me, and how he’s her fiance and how happy they are.
Rebecca,
This guy is sick and sadistic!!! He truly gets joy out of hurting you!
This is very disturbing!!!
Rebecca- its very difficult to understand how EUMs think or why they do what they do. I’ve been NC for a while, but still get regular texts from the ex AC asking if I’m OK and saying he loves me – yet makes no attempt to actually phone and SPEAK to me. he’s with someone else too and I suspect has others on the go too, if he’s running true to form. I’ve given up trying to fathom him and make sense of it all. I’m doing fine without him . Just tell yourself what a prize ass he is and you’re lucky to be rid of him.
Rebecca I feel u I been there I was stuck wanting someone who didn’t want me, wanting someone who isn’t for me and in the process only hurting myself.I am still in the tug of war of Nc with this guy dur to the fact he keeps calling and text from all kinds of nums and popping up but I no longer feel that want for him or worries about him and the other women he’s invovled with, even though it is hurtful and I was jealous.I know if women and men have been thru the same situation in life in there relationships gone wrong I can get thru it too and so can you.
You are dealing with the jealousy part of breaking up and letting go.You have to focus more on you, you have to literally force yourself.it is hard I live in it everyday somedays I have my go in the bathrm and cry for min spells but those days are getting less and less.
Look at all the celebrities thats had similar love stories or bad romance stories.Look at singer Brandys bio she said she dated the guy from boyz to men he didn’t love her he loved someone else, she said it was hard to watch the man she love loving someone else she was heartbroken and so she stopped watching and broke ties.
Look at Ellen tiger woods x wife that had to be hard and no one knows how she feels inside but a he was strong enough to let go.Look at Katie Tom cruise’s ex wife she got out of there quick.
I seen a play it said to not regret love lost God had that person in your life for a reason and a season to learn a lesson.Some people are only meant to be in your life for a season so u have to let them go and get on with your life.
My situation is a mess and I am in no postion to give advice, but I know these feelings won’t last too long
“When he was coming onto me very very heavily, he still had not left the girlfriend’
followed by
“He IS capable of being truly committed, but just to her.”
Please reread these two statements; they contradict each other.
You are trying to be the “exception to the rule”: he is an ass and you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to take the blame for it, and you are choosing to do so.
Stop it. This is nuts:(
Sweety, look at what you wrote – no, stop and REALLY look at it and think about it… “He IS capable of being truly committed, but just to her.”
What do you think the definition of committed is? Do committed people have side relationships and booty calls lined up? Do you think she would be SOOOO freaking happy knowing he chases whatever he is capable of getting behind her back? YOU WEREN”T EVEN THE ONLY ONE!! Its not a one-off, you are not his dream come true, and neither is she, or that third girl you wrote about (and I guarantee there are more lol).
I have been caught living in fantasy land too so I get it – but come on you have all the data you need to come to the correct conclusion about this!! Its slapping you right in the face dear; he is a grade A dirt bag. It doesn’t matter how much charisma he has, or money… it just helps him be a slicker dirtbag. You need to try harder than you’ve ever tried in your life to see through your self contained fog and get the hell out of the situation. He doesn’t love you, he doesn’t love the oh so happy other woman, he doesn’t even love himself – he is using ALL of you to give himself what he is sorely lacking and you are all letting him. Dont play the game. Wake up…
Sorry, I hate to see anyone caught out so badly and thinking theres something wrong with them for it. You are better than this – find your strength and get the hell out of this situation.
Why would you even communicate with him? Time and time again he has proven that he is not worth all this wasted emotion.
And also why do you put yourself down? You say that you are just a very ordinary person with many many flaws…who says you are? I recommend seeing a therapist if you can as this is not how you should see yourself at all.
And have you thought that maybe she doesn’t bring out the best in him but just puts up with it..you deserve much much better then this man.
Please please do not have anything to do with him again.
@Rebecca, he has really crushed your self esteem.
It’s time to let the source of your pain go now sweetie. You deserve happiness now. Just let him go, de-friend him from social media. Stop STOP stop torturing yourself. He is an evil pig….have pity for his woman…she will see what you have seen later…be grateful you saw it sooner. Dont let him treat you like trash by ignoring him completely. Love yourself girl, you are amazing and have to offer a real man so much love inside you. Dont let him ruin that for you too. He’s done enough damage. STOP right now xxx
Rebecca,
Since the other commenters (especially Yoghurt, damn girl) did such an excellent job at shining the light on exactly what this cockroach *excuse me*, man is, I want to focus on something more important: YOU.
Believe me when I say that, the usual human imperfections aside, the ONLY thing wrong with you is your negative perspective on yourself. And I’m not just trying to be nice by saying this to you. Ask any of the fellow BR commenters, and they’ll tell you that I’m not that nice. 🙂 But I share what I see, and this is what I see in your comment.
I’ve been there before, so don’t think I’m judging you. I just know the cycle, and believe me when I say that you are on a road to nowhere with this thinking. It’s not logical, fair, and most certainly not helpful.
What would help you, I think (and since you asked for advice, I’m giving you mine to do with what you will) is to focus on people in your life with whom you feel comfortable. People who love you for who you are. Ask them what they think is special about you. Then listen hard.
Also, what types of characteristics in your personality do YOU like about yourself? Are you kind to the elderly? Are you compassionate and helpful to friends when they’re in emotional distress? Are you good at making others laugh when tensions are high?
Also, think about your goals, past and future. What have you accomplished that you set out to do? What are you planning to do in the future? What are you excited about?
Look out the window. Are the trees in bloom? Are there any fat little swallows skipping along the sidewalk? They’re cute, aren’t they? Is it windy? Do you like the sound of the wind through the leaves of the trees?
There are so many more beautiful, peaceful, USEFUL things to focus on–both inward and outward–than the unnecessary pain and drama that these people (and our poor decisions we make when we’re with them) cause. Give your mind and heart a rest and continue to build yourself up slowly but surely. And then, when you’re more clear-headed, you will see the situation with this man for what it is. And you’ll be grateful that you don’t have such anguish in your life anymore.
Here here!!! Awesome comments and suggestions!!
seconding the hear hear – great stuff Rev 🙂
Thank you for taking the time to read, and to reply.
Everyone is telling me the guy is a cockroach, in your words. If he is, then I want to be one too. Because from what I see, being a cockroach means having people fighting for your love and attention, your mother adoring you, society seeing you as a great success, even his kid sister adores the face off him.The best descritpion of him is in fact, “he gets along with everyone” (how my cousin described him before he ever entered my life). So isn’t it logical to assume its ME who is the one who fell short and HIM who, by being happy and content with his life, who did something terrible, and IS terrible.
I don’t propose to speak to the guy in any way, shape or form (after two years of this TORTURE I really cannot BEAR it any longer) but it haunts me every second. WHY does my brain INSIST on painting him in this glowing, mystical light of wonderful, no matter wWHAT I force it to think.
Nuts, wish I’d read this before my other reply (above)
“Everyone is telling me the guy is a cockroach, in your words. If he is, then I want to be one too.”
I get this – I’ve already written screeds so I won’t go into my story to illustrate how I really really get this, but I really really do.
But you’re being selective about your data. You’re focusing on the fact that a lot of people think that he’s a nice guy. You’re ignoring the fact that he’s so dissatisfied with his life that he has to bully and manipulate you for a cheap power-fix and some empty validation. You’re ignoring the fact that he has everything someone could want and it STILL isn’t enough – that’s one helluva void that he’s got. And you’re ignoring the fact that this adoration he’s got is only based on partial information – you can bet that people wouldn’t think he was such a great guy if they knew he was sliming around behind his fiancee’s back. So not many people actually know the real him – doesn’t that make their ‘love’ a bit delusional and worthless?
I thought that my son’s dad was everything that a person could be or want, btw – didn’t stop him from making a serious suicide attempt when I was 8 months pregnant.
Focusing on the external validation that he gets without realising what a sad, empty, miserable little cowardly soul DESPITE IT is only going to a) make you feel really really miserable and cursed, to absolutely no purpose whatsoever and b) warp your understanding of what happiness really is. He has all that and he’s still not happy – why d’you think it’d work for you?
@yoghurt
Thanks again for trying to understand. I’m sorry for what you might have gone through with the baby and the suicidal bf/EUM..whatever he was. Lord alone knows how anyone gets over things like that. One of the reasons I’m so terrified of my own behavior is if I ever end up having kids, what the HELL kind of mom will I be to them. I know the answer to that all too clearly, right now.
Its like he’s got every duck in a row, every base covered, the exact opposite of me, whose been royally cocking up since time immemorial. He saw that, eventually, and yes, he left right away.
Natalie talks about, in the dreamer/fantasy r/s pdf, how theres such a synchronicity between my nature and his, and its SO true. You TOTALLY “get” him…yet he still doesn’t want you.
And whats so painful is remembering how much he DID want you. he delayed his flight three times to stay with me, wanted to find work there, wouldnt stop calling, texting wanted to spend every second with me, red roses, the lot. Now: last time he “communicated” he sent an email which I missed as he’s blocked, and when I asked what was in it , replies”how should I know, I was drunk”. And meanwhile, he puts up pictures of himself taking the gf out on romantic dates…:(
If he enjoys torturing me, then he should be delighted, because I feel like utter worthless stinking garbage, and he knows it.
This guy is not unhappy, he never will be. He thinks he’s the Lord above’s ultimate gift to women, the apple of his family’s eye, the alpha dog among his peers, even his boss’s pet. Throw in a girlfriend who will NEVER leave him, and being the best looking man alive. He sees all this. He wont let anything stand in the way of him and happiness.
“He wont let anything stand in the way of him and happiness.”
Boy, you said a mouthful there. Nope, he won’t — not honesty, not fidelity, not common human decency, not ethics, morals, loyalty or love. He is ENTITLED to happiness. You’re not. The gf isn’t, either. At least not if either of those two things come at any expense to him, or involve him sacrificing one iota of what he’s entitled to.
Please, please, please do some reading on narcissistic relationships and abuse. Yes, I am armchair analyzing but ya know what? If it’s got hooves and a mane and four legs and looks like a donkey only with stripes, it’s a zebra.
I had one. They have a totally uncanny ability to find every chink in your armor and absolutely destroy you. After a lifetime of addiction to painful relationships (thanks SOOOOOO much, pappy), that was the one that finally broke me. I had to break the addiction right then or it was going to kill me. Very, very literally. And believe me, he had some serious competition for “worst man ever” — and yep, this is the same guy who “everybody” things is fantastic and wonderful and has it all together and isn’t he great.
Narcissists are a very distinct and specific form of beastie. Once you know what they look like, they’re highly recognizable. The best cure for them is education. It’s like learning to avoid being hit by an out-of-control eighteen-wheeler, only not so obvious 🙂
Best of luck and hugs from a fellow narcissist-victim-survivor!
Listen to Daphne and Runnergirl, Rebecca. You won’t understand what a — sorry, ‘weirdo’ — this man is until you research and fully understand the nature, habits and behaviours of narcissists.
People toss the word ‘narcissist’ around like it’s just someone with a cute and funny roll-yer-eyes self-obsession who probably makes a little kissy face and a sidelong wink at his own reflection in the mirror every morning while he’s shaving. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about a severe and potentially dangerous personality disorder — yep, that’s a mental disorder — of the highly socialised sort. I don’t think our Nat would mind if I point out Lisa E Scott’s website at http://www.lisaescott.com
Have a look Rebecca, and a bit of a read, and see if a lightbulb doesn’t switch on over your pretty little head! I think it will.
You are in deep rebbeccadewinter. I was too, probably as deep as you are. I had some serious getting the guy off the pedestal work in order to get a grip. It’s totally amazing how I could frame his mistreatment of me as how I was flawed. In my case, I had to own how I allowed the mistreatment to continue by staying engaged.
Your last sentence really summed it up: “He wont let anything stand in the way of him and happiness.” We shouldn’t let a lying, cheating him stand in the way of our happiness no matter how drop dead gorgeous, alpha dog, bosses best pet, he is. These types are pretty standard and a bit interchangeable. I bet you’d find the lying cheating alpha dog male I was involved with drop dead heart thumping gorgeous. Too bad he was a total effed up jerk.
Btw, there might be a lot of people who actually DO KNOW THE REAL HIM. Former lovers he cast aside, former coworkers he bullied out, clients he took advantage of… You aren’t going to find THEM in his harem of admirers, though.
Either they ran for the hills because they know the healing power of NC (you ought to be one of them, Rebecca!), or he bad-mouthed them and damaged their credibility so much that his admirers drove them away. Even if you cannot see the victims, they exist. Believe me.
This is the first time I’ve ever commented here but I had to. I had one of those. The “great guy” who everyone else saw as a wonderful person, who was there for everyone (except me and his daughters – and even they were hornswaggled into how much “Daddy loves them” although their gut knew something was wrong). It’s awful, truly devastating. You end up questioning yourself for months and YEARS afterward, even when you’ve seen his behavior up close and personal. I even had some outside corroboration of his behavior toward the handful of people chosen to be his “lucky ones” (ie, emotionally dependent enough on him that he can get away with totally bogus, rinky-dink behavior).
I totally relate. I KNOW better, and I still have those thoughts sometimes. The only suggestion I have is to do some reading on narcissists and how colossally convincing they can be in the “chase” phase of the relationship. And I can only echo what others have said above — he is *not* “all that”, guaranteed. Even though he’s put a lot of time and effort into convincing you and a lot of other people that he is.
Third that; “back to you” is always the best advice ( but a gold-plated feces comment is always helpful as well)
Daring Rebecca, I am SO sorry you feeling this way, i understand you so well, I was there and my AC number 1 was an investment banker.
TRY NOT TO respond when he is contacting you, change your number and disappear from him and his friends. Our lovely girls here gave me the same advice, but I was still communicating via email, but now it’s all stopped for good. NO MORE ACs in my life, even I still miss them but for what? As you saying AC done a lot to his long term (suffering) girlfriend, but what he done to you? Only pain and disappointed.. Please keep reading BR, comments, and keep yourself busy. I joined zumba and yoga classes, I also work 4 days a week, and planning to open my own business, I just try to keep myself busy…try to do the same, the more busy you are, the less you will be thinking about AC. HE is player and no one going to change him, DO NOT WASTE your time with him, he is NOT WORTH IT!!! ALL the best xxx
The oft-used BR tagline is especially apt here: “He’s just NOT that special.”
@Rebeccadewinter:
Btw don’t know how old you are but when I was 24 I went through something with my first love, which was very much like that. I viewed him as admired by everyone.
Years later, I found out that many people who I had thought admired him, secretly thought that he was an ass and felt sorry for the naive me for dating him. I had it all wrong!
A few years ago, I have to confess, I looked him up on Facebook out of curiosity just to see what he looks like now…
He had been this beautiful, tragic James Dean at 30…at 50 he was paunchy, yellowey donut salesman looking bloke and he seemed pretty cheesy from what I could read. It made me laugh so hard to see what an ass I had made a god of.
You need to go and get help. You sound very depressed and a bit irrational ( not meaning to be mean, just honestly, what you are saying makes NO sense). Maybe a little anxiety medication would take the edge off and help you benefit from therapy…just a thought.
DQ
I was thinking the same thing about medication but was reluctant to mention it because so many people are so anti. I recently went on an SSRI and have found it helpful. Sure they don’t fix you but for me they turned down the inner Voice of Doom soundtrack and have made it just a bit easier to get on and deal with stuff. Rebecca it sounds like yours is absolutely deafening you and it can be very very hard not to listen.
Thanks for your input, always appreciated…hopefully, I will find a post on not being able to see the forest through the trees one day…sounds like you guys are doing great – good to know there is still life and hope out there!
Melissa- sorry this happened to you. My heart truly feels for you. I went through something very similiar back in March at a non-profit charity I had worked for. Sabotage, back stabbing- very emmotionally abusive. I literally felt like my heart was broken– couldn’t wrap my head around how/why people behave the way they do, when I was doing so well for the organization and the people with disabilities they serve. It was a big old bad dream of wtf? am I in bizarre land?. It really fucked me up, like a bad break up. I think when you work for a charity there is a certain expectation that everyone is there for the same reason- philanthrophy & kind heartedness. Yeah, nope!! I could go on about the ego’s and such, but that doesn’t help you. You have been hurt bad. Take time to heal. Really heal.It will take a while. Try to find something that you really enjoy doing, like a dance class, read a bagillion books. get a massage or what ever it is for you…talk to a healer, stick around kind people. Sleep. Heal your heart. I’m still recovering from my experience, and my one form of redemetion was when it was obvious they were trying to push be out of the job, I was like F’ them- I am not going to bust my ass and desperately look for a new job. F’ them they can lay me off and give me unemployment, so I stuck to my guns….now I am embracing the opportunity in my life to really assess what matters to me in life and what I am passionate about. For me it is a long forgotten art path that I steered off. So I am getting back on…Sometimes life pushes us in a direction that we need to go, forces us to really look and be with ourselves. Try to embrace the blank slate and see what emerges. Nat’s post seems perfect timing for you, read it over and over…it’s not about you, unfortunately, as I have learned there are just folks out there that are so lost and unenlightened. You clearly have more character then any of them and are a genuinely good person. Turn this disaster into gold for yourself. You will rise above it. Sending you healing light, love and energy!
@rebecca
Really?? You think he’s a great boyfriend to her. Hello how do you figure that? He is messaging you blowing hot and cold. I’m certain a non EU would not be messaging another woman. He has done it twice. If he was with you he would be messaging others and doing the same. Past actions are a good indication if future behavior. He is doing you a favour trust me. You don’t bring out the bad in him that’s just who he is!!
You’re putting this guy on a ridiculous pedestal and he needs to come down. Just because he’s “been” with someone for 5 years doesn’t make him loyal – and he hasn’t been he was with you for 6 weeks. She is willing to put up with his bs. Don’t you do the same you are worth so much more.
You get what you settle for, do not settle for someone so selfish who treats you like absolute crap!
WOW to: “It’s not about you. The reason why someone is mistreating you is because that’s what they do. You can do the work to address why you’re still there or why you’re internalising their behaviour but what you cannot do is see you as an extension of their behaviour.” That what I do now: analyzing ACs behaviour and what I could have done differently so they could treat me better and so often blame myself that I was not kinder, more supportive and understanding?! Am I mad?! Thank you again Natalie for your wonderful post xxx
Yeah. As my close friend said last night: “It’s not what you did. It’s who he is.”
I still have my days when I am in deep thought of is it anything I’ve done to cause the x,to borrow money not pay back leave overnight in my car several times and lie continuously.
I’ve been reading Iyana van zant’s book in the meantime. I don’t know if I’m wrong but what I got from her book is if u show love and support to someone u love they will give it to u in return, and that if u love youself keep your body looking well, and don’t ask for your needs to be met the other person u are in a relationship with will cooperate and give u a love care trust and respect automatically.
But if u come to a bumpy road in your relationship even if the man is cheating continuously stealing or whatever stay level headed and give them love.I think I was loving towards my x I know I am not perfect and my love habits were a lil off but like nat says dating is a discovery phase and both parties have to be willing to work it out.
Now reading the book sorta validates that I had everything wrong, maybe I’m not pretty enough or small enough, loving enough.
Lacy,
Time to burn that book! Start reading more of Nat’s materials!
Allison I really love her no disrespect but I didn’t get the book.I don’t know maybe I have to be in a differen head space to understand the book, cause right now I’m a mess.
Things have fallen short.I can’t focus and I got myself in a lil financial strain, I have always had my bills in order.
I let the x back after 3 mths of Nc.He came to my house unexpected said that he wants us to work on our relationship. In 2 days I did the calling and we were suppose to go out on fri and he told me he forgot. So I seen where it was headed so I sent a long text asking him to explain why did he lie about wanting a relationship? He said that I was pushing him away.
I pushed him away from wed him begging for a relationship to not seeing him til sun for mon him to say I’m pushing him away.
It tore me up inside, I continued to text and he would reply back he working or I’d say hi wyd he’d simply say that he was working.I feel like shit, so yesterday he called me and asked me to go to petco for him to buy his dog some food.I told him no and he said why not? I told him I was busy he said oh well if u can’t I’ll just get someone else to go pick it up for me.
Throughout the long interaction between us from him coming back into my life from him being in jail for 2 yrs.In 06 we reconnected , but actually had a relationship in start in 02.
I seen his pattern of doing things on his terms and I rarely made plans to do relationship stuff with him, which probably made him happy, he would always say he had no money, once I offered to pay but I fell asleep, but the other times he would stand me up, so I stop asking about us doing anything but being at my house watching tv or running errands together was his way of spending time together.
When he came back into my life I admit I didn’t have expectations of a relationship, I excepted his crumbs.I stopped initiating dates cause I didn’t want to be mad at him for standing me up again, or him saying he didn’t have any money.
So I excepted crumbs of his time. I look at how stupid I looked and to here him say that I never asked him to take me anywhere when I did I got stood up by him twice and it hurt so I stopped asking, and he always complained about not having money.
I feel rather dumb for excepting what he offered me in a relationship, and I keep thinking the woman he’s with is in school pretty and just had a baby by him.I am less than her so thats why it didn’t work out between us.
I didn’t know what a healthy relationship should look like so I excepted everything on his terms.I feel like it has to be me the reason he acts like that towards me.
From what I know he’s living with the woman although he says he’s not and doesn’t have a baby with her but she put a pic on facebook of him holding the baby, saying they both make her happy.
How is it he makes her so happy and makes me so miserable? How is it when a yr ago I got pregnant he left for 3 mths, and I wind up having a miscarrige.What did I do wrong? Last summer he broke it off with me he said I was boring, and not sexul enough for him, we had sex everywhere used the vibrators he bought, had a whole day here and there with just sex all day.But never really spent time doing anything but running him around or watching tv.
Soon as he got his car I loaned him money to pay the taxes and he never offered to take me out.I asked once and he blew it off like he was tired so I didn’t ask again the thing was that although he never admit it he has been living a double maybe even triple life.Which seems like he was happy with having things on his terms with me.
I’m hurt and feel stupid.Why can’t I be the one to say how happy he makes me? Am I just a piece of gum on the bottom of his shoe?
I’m just
Lacy, are you serious about making changes or are you serious about staying in pain and calling it “love”? I’ve read all your posts and I’m rooting for you. Yet, I’m also baffled here. I don’t want to repeat some of the things you’ve revealed in previous posts as that’s not my info to be sharing. Lacy, he’s a monster and you are trying to live out some beauty and the beast fairytale but that’s the thing–Beauty and the Beast is fictional.
I agree with Allison about burning that book. You love it because the author is telling you what you want to hear, I guess, but is it working? You’ve been loving, supportive, blah, blah, blah and he’s still a monster. You treat him like a god but he’s a demon.
Lacy, when I improved my character I thought I would be treated better because I could (now) be authentically supportive and honest (no hidden agenda) but guess what? I still got the nonsense from the nonsense characters and was treated respectfully by those who already treated people respectfully. I can’t control someone else’s behavior. I’m not that powerful.
You cannot control this monster, which is what you are trying to do by being even more “loving”, “supportive”, blah, blah, blah.
You have kids, Lacy, and it doesn’t seem as if you’re thinking of them at all. I don’t think I can read your posts anymore with a clear head because every time I read your posts, I get a little angrier because nobody, not even you, their mother, is thinking about what’s best for THEM. Your behavior, your enabling this monster’s abuse, and your focus on “poor me, what am I doing wrong” is damaging your children! See? I’m getting angry. Ok, I’m going to stop reading your posts.
I’m sorry, Lacy. It just doesn’t seem as if you’re serious and my heart breaks for your kids. They’re the victims here.
Totally agree!
Rosie I need that I have no one to talk to this is why I post my comments.I see myself fading my life is being affected you don’t know me but u took time to shed light and speak the truth, I appreciate you for that and I made the steps to move on I was Nc for 3 mths and he showed up at my house and I dealt back with him based on the lies of him saying he changed which in 3 days turned out to not be true.
So I back doing the work all over and the next time he decides to come by my house the police will be there, you are right that I’m not the victim or suffering its my children.
When I can’t get out of bed they suffer and they shouldn’t be punished because my head is a mess.I am going to try harder thk you for giving me that strong push , I need it thk you!
Lacy,
I remember your story. This guy is such a piece of shit, and complete waste of time.
I think you really need to reread your post and see how damaging any interaction is. Have you considered therapy? You must remove yourself from this situation, as it is so unhealthy. This man is using you for sex and money. He does not care!!!
Reasons to stay away:
Ex con- No future
Involved with another and has a new baby- she has nothing, as he is cheating on her and the child. CHEATER
Blows you off
Not dependable
Bailed when you were pregnant. Unforgivable
Sexual situations which are uncomfortable. I believe he wanted threesomes
No money- do you want to support this dude. He can not provide for you or a family. Loser
Dating was limited to house and errands- this is not a relationship
One-sided – he puts in no effort and plays major games
Lacy, when is enough, enough? You know who he is, and are choosing to hurt yourself. What do you get out of this? Why do you want him?? This situation is scary. You need to get out!!!!
Allison I don’t know who I am I know I don’t want a relationship on those terms.I feel worthless and nowdays I don’t love him I just feel like a failure, like why would he want me any.I been praying and I know suffering won’t last long, and its better things in life in store for me that won’t include him, I just hope those days come soon.
Lacy,
That’s your choice and you’re in control of your actions!
I didn’t realize you had children, if this is the case, it’s time to think about their welfare. Bringing the ex con, worthless loser into the house affects their lives. You are teaching your children how they should treat women, and be treated. Is this what you want?
If you don’t want to do what’s beneficial for you, think of them.
No more excises! You are not weak, or a victim! Time to make the right decisions!!!
I would also put yourself in the baby’s and girlfriend’s shoes- not cool to have involvement with him.
Lacy,
When we expose ourselves to the dregs of the earth, we feel worthless – they have nothing to give, but only take.
How many kids does this loser have? How does he support them? I think I know the answer.
Allison he has plentybof kids and whatever u are thinking u maybe right.All I know is that I found all this stuff out last yr about him, which really the signs were there I ignored them and listened to the lies.
He never told me out of all the yrs we been dealing with each other that he was building other relationships he said he’s a man and he do mingle but its nothing like that and he loves me.The only way I did actually know of this woman with the baby was by going thru his phone.The way I knew about her being pregnant was from my friend telling me and he still denies it, But I know the truth he got caught in a lie before when we did a pop up visit at his moms house and his daughter was there along with a baby in a car seat.
I asked him who’s baby? He said he didn’t know we stayed for a lil while and left.A few mths later a woman was texting his phone at 3am saying why didn’t he bring the milk? I woke him up and thats when he explained the situation after lying a few mths earlier.Now this is not even a yr later he has another child with a different woman that he denies.
I was told by a friend of mine that he lives with her but still is from house to house but she think he trying to do right by the woman and the baby.
I can’t feel anything about that situation but he is entitled to be with who he wants just stay away from me.But far as me hunting him down that will never happen and I have no issue with her but the fact this is the same woman as God is my witness that text his phone and picked him up in front of my house and asked him why are u still being at Lacys house? So I have no thoughts about her cause I personally will never go pick a man up clearly knowing its a woman he’s been living with, I have no bad thoughts about her or her baby with him, so when I went back to deal with him it wasn’t about her it was about I wasn’t mentally ready.
I been in his life since 02 and didn’t know anything about her until I looked in his phone.Whatever they’re situation he respected her enough to tell her about what he does in his life and that it was ok for her to pick him up from my house.
This woman is 38 and he is same age as me 32.I told him be happy and raise his kids and stay away from my door.He said its a big decison and he can’t tell me he can do that right now he’ll think about it, but in my eyes he already made his decision, he’s with her.He said he can do what he wants and if he wants to come by my house he will, I told him the police will be waiting for him and he hung up.
Just to catch u up I started Nc in feb.I changed my locks and cell, it took him 2 weeks and he came by.I didn’t let him in , he would call my house line I wouldn’t answer this went on til maybe the end of the mth of Apr.
One day I got off work picked my sons up and my daughter called me and said J is here and he brung your food.He got on the phone and said that I need to come home and talk to him and stop being childish.My daughter was there with my older niece,He is not the type to harm children I won’t lie in the part I do trust I have good insticts on that, I never leave my kids with anyone.They said he sat on the couch for a lil while eating his food and left.
In that time he got my cell num and was calling me saying he will make it hard for me to move on.I went back home and he was gone but still calling.
The next day I answered big mistake I thought I was strong enough to have a discussion with him he said he needed closure or we need to work on being together that he is not with anyone.
He told me he was sorry we talked about everything he said he wants us to be back in a relationship (what we had was not a relationship) is what I told him he said I came home to u every night if I wasn’t with u I had my kids at my mom house, I fo have to spend time with them as well.
So I agreed to being in a relationship.This all happened on a wed.Thurs we talked on the phone I called him he answered but I can sense the change he didn’t sound like the other day, but he did say he would see me fri he wanted to take me out.
Fri Morn I text him Gm wyd he said working.He used to text me twice a day before I went Nc and we seen each other twice a week.Which used to be every other day Nd I see why he added another baby and baby mother.So I text him that fri morn and his response was short.
That fri night he text me wyd? I said I was at my moms and where are u I need to ask u something I will come where u are, he said he was at his friend lj house and he’ll call me in a sec.
I knew what that was so I went out on a real date with this nice man, but I was feeling stupid about the situation with j, believing or hanging on his words that he wanted a relationship but in reality he was happy to keep me as casual whore and give someone else a relationship, cause I do believe if he’s not treating me right its somebody he gotta be treating right.
I sent him a long text that night for him to text me back and say he forgot to call me back.
I was devastated, I was simple simone again playing the game.He came over that sun said that I was pushing him away he love me and he want to work on being with me but he think he might night be able to give me what I want out of a relationship.I nag too much and I pushed him all the way back with that long text I sent him the night before.
He left and I told him make sure not to come back, he said he not gone say he won’t be back and he can do what he wants, I told him next time the police will be waiting for him.He said in that case he won’t come back.
Drama and games!
Lacy,
This is a nightmare! I cannot express enough, how damaging this situation is to your children. They pick up on everything. You’re their role model.
He is the father to your kids?
How many children did he father – by other women – when you were together, and does he pay any support?
Remember, girls that witness this, have a strong chance of following in their mother’s footsteps, and boys become like the man- EU and irresponsible, just like this dude.
He is also a drain financially, and this takes from your kids.
You say you are not going to engage with him, you’ll call the police, etc. but you don’t mean it seriously. If you did or ever had, you wouldn’t be dealing with this asshole now. You continually give him your butt to kick. One of the few things he told you is probably true for him – you are boring, and not sexy enough. Generally men do not find doormats interesting or sexy. You fawn over him accept anything he does, and even give him money. How do you expect him to respect you, especially when he is already a piece of sh*t himself. You are just a receptacle for him to deposit his sperm. This sounds harsh, I know, but the last thing you need is someone feeling sorry for you. You are CHOOSING to wallow in self pity, but yet not choosing to get him PERMANENTLY out of your life. You are a very poor mother to your children. You’re giving them no respectable role model, and that’s a crime. You are actually abusing them according to the newly widespread terms that constitute the many various types of abuse. Instead of coming on to this blog with these long, pitiful, ridiculous and difficult to read stories, I might add, you should be trying to find yourself a therapist. You are in a state of emergency mentally. Nobody here is a therapist, not even Natalie who readily admits that fact. You have an incredible amount of work to do on your non-existent self esteem. But it is not a lost cause. It’s never a lost cause until you’re 6 ft under. But, you DO NEED to snap out of this craziness and get busy helping yourself. You need to be exercising healthy choices. You need to take better care by delivering the best care and concern to YOUR CHILDREN that you can possibly manage. Being a complete mental disaster yourself is not helping them one iota. And, you need to take good care of yourself by eating well, exercising regularly and filling your spare moments with self rewarding activities. I cannot feel sorry for you because you find it easier to repeat bad behavior and then complain about the results. A therapist, a counselor in private or even group therapy would help you with a lot of your problems. The purpose of this blog is to read Natalie’s excellent posts, share comments or advice which will help to give you or someone else spiritual enlightenment with (hopefully) resulting stronger self- esteem, mental broadening of healthy interaction with others and spiritual self fulfillment. Stop complaining and start doing. I don’t know how old you are but you need to grow up. Get to work.
Shit, Tink. You make me look like a soft little Teletubby. Lol! But you’re right.
Rebecca, she’s right. I hope you’re listening. And for the record, I also wanted to add a last thought: I’m not angry or disgusted with you either. Just concerned. I hope you read what all of us are writing to you and take it to heart. And, yes, I think therapy is not a “maybe” but a MUST at this point. That doesn’t mean that YOU are inherently bad, but it DOES mean that YOUR THINKING is way off. And you can fix that. So get to getting, love. All the best. 😉
I know Rev. I really don’t mean to be mean, but it makes me soooo angry to see intelligent young women who probably have so much going for them, messing up their lives with assholes. And, when they have kids in the mix, it’s even worse. You cannot be a child raising children. It’s destructive and it scars them for life. Not to pat myself on the back, but I gave Tired the same treatment and look where she is now. MUCH, MUCH BETTER. We all have the strength to break the chains of misery and pain. But you have got to REALLY want it and do the work. We’ve seen many other posters come a long way, proving it is possible. Look at Lilly. I have the deepest respect for her. You stay strong, too, Rev. Hugs, Tink.
Tink I respect your opinion sometimes the truth hurts.I just wasn’t prepared to hear that I was a spot for his semen but he has to think that way of me or else I wouldn’t be so miserable about the relationship we had.Which in reality was just sexual and I lived off lies and promises which was an idiot decision I made.
I am as well at fault, he showed me who he was and I didn’t except it and move on.I don’t think of him as a monster.He is bad with a few other women from reading his text hell he’s even showed me a few texts trying to prove himself as no tso bad.He really shows who he is a womanizer.
I played my part and ot is not fair to my kids that I’m always tired and sad that is not being the best mom I could be to them, The ac said a few times u act like I beat u or something u always say I hurt u or do u wrong but neglect words and emotionally not there is abuse and I find from tkme to time I lack with my children so I am doing what he does to me.
My son has needed new glasses for a mth now he broke the last pair.He had an exam and his vision is terrible, now he has braces and glasses at the same time at 13 lbvs he’s a good kid.Well I got an exam just for the heck of having to take him and turns out I need them worser than my son does, and they asked me how was I driving so long without them?
I am grabbing a hold of me.I got a text at 8 saying send me a pic, this guy will text off anyone phone and he has 2 phones.I also got one text at 12 saying wyd? And 4 missed calls starting at 4 am.The num I know is actually jis is blocked along with the nums he text from but Blocking him doesn’t matter to him he’ll get tired eventually.
So tink I do appreciate your opinion it had me thinking a lil more thk you all.
So sorry for the long stories the therapist said that I ramble and ruminate and that will come to pass once I clear some things up but he’s gone work on one thing at a time.
I felt something ‘off’ when I read that book, and then come to find out, reading her most recent material, her man that she had loved for so long and met at camp that she goes on about was actually a total abusive and she was the OW for a good portion before they were eventually married, and I believe he cheated on her and left her for another woman.
Iyanla’s book, I mean.
Sunyata oh I thought I was way off when I read the book.she has some good points but how can u remain nice when you are abused, I understand not stooping to there level but how do u follow her plan of actions.
I seen the show with her and Dmx and that looked so hard for her to remain calm when he cursed her out over and over and she did get fustrated and raised her voice back to him as well to
Sorry my response got cut off I’m on my galaxy, but she too seemed to not be able to handle being in a hostile environment and treated badly, its hard to continue to show a person love as she says in the book.
My thing is as Nat would say just leave.
@Lacey..I read that book years ago…Sorry but it’s alot of airy fairy bullshit. Those books about love in relationships just don’t get into specifics enough and are way too vague…I agree with Allison…BR is the real deal and you will get results if you follow the real world on here…You have to spot redflags and know what they are before you can do that though..That’s where BR trumps all those hokey spiritual books.
I had that book and think it gives bad advice. It recommended that if your long term partner decided he wanted to date other people, to be supportive and stand aside, then ask him how his date was when he gets home (for real!) and give him space to choose while being the waiting, patient, loving girlfriend while he’s out with someone else. Iyanla was basically giving instructions on how to be a fall back girl, in my opinion.
Thats what it sounded like to me but in all honesty if someone comes and tells u they want to date other people I’d rather they do that than do it behind my back, rather they be honest but waiting around while they decide is torture its best to be with someone who wants the type of relationship you want.
Umm…you shouldn’t be “waiting around while they decide.” What is this, Baskin Robbins??? You BOUNCE!!!! Let them rack their indecisive little brains on someone else’s time!
Its more like a trip to the vagina buffet while we sit home and wait for leftovers.
I value monogamy AND honesty.
a few days ago my 20 yr old gorgeous gifted college student cousin ended his life by his own hands im in a total state of shok an unbelief about 10 years ago hiself brothr n sister lost their mom in a fatal car train,accident she was like my sister an mom all in one to this day ive never gotten ovr it a couple of years the oldest sister met a much older man that was a known womanizer but her being young she fell for the okedoke recently she turned 21 an got her settlement funds frm her moms death,,mind u that she was being abused the whole time that she was with this older guy we did everything to keep her away frm this guy he moved her to another state an shortly married her mind u the abuse neva stooped my family tried so hard to kep her close nothing worked period shortly after the marriage day she wuld receiv her funds but never got a chnce to spend not even half after all the abuse he shortly emptied her account stole her brandnew car whil she was in protective custody he drained thouands an thousands of dollars an when she arrived hme sshe found out she had nothing no money no car nothing I believ that her brother felt so helpless in this situation that this thing she was going threw an his own emotions just came to be too much there mom had struggled befor she left this world I wuld trade anything in the world to get her bak I feel helpless an sad sumtimes even sik I jus pray an wll continue to pray my way threw…
cmj, I’ll pray a few prayers for you and your family as well.
I’m so sorry for your loss and everything going on with your family.
Great post! And I can unfortunately relate to the whole court saga w my ex husbastard. Omg did he give me a hard time. Tried to evade every responsibility relating to his kids, in court every other month for years. And it died down 5 years ago after he remarried and had another child. So. Many. Times. I extended the olive branch, tried to be the civil peacemaker. And it seemed the more civil I was toward him, the more he’d be a d!ck.
Perfect timing for this post, cause i’ve been stressing recently, 1st time in 5 yrs, now I have to take him back to court for evading medical expenses he’s responsible for (he makes a
pretty penny, so $ isnt the issue). I only contact him for those issues, thats it. I get zero response from him, no comments, nada. Hasnt
seen his kids in 5 yrs. Then he changes his #. Making it difficult for me to contacy him about anything. He just doesnt care.
Moral of that story (sorry, tried to make it short), I blamed and tortured myself for his bad behavior YEARS. I didnt get it back then, I thought…I mustve done something pretty damn bad to make this man up and leave not only me, but his two beautiful children, and be nasty on top of it.
Oh, I was brainwashed that it was all my fault. And as my kids get older, my poor
daughter, especially, wonders what SHE
did to make him leave and never look back. I do everything in my power making sure she understands it has nothing to do with HER. But, its hard for a child to understand that. Its so sad. But overall, shes a happy girl :).
In the past 10 years, while going through all of that craziness, feeling at my lowest, of course, perfect opportunity for AC’s to enter my life with their oh-so-charming ways, lol. I kicked that addiction 8 months ago and never looked back.
People have to stick up for themselves, and stop doubting themselves, their worth, and what they want in life. I left all of that sh!te behind me. Im focusing on what I want out of this life for myself and my kids. Make life simple.
@Valley Forge Lady… Thank you for sharing :), it gives us ladies hope that it is absolutely possible to find what we’re looking for. May not happen today, next month, or in 6 months… But it can and DOES happen, as long as we keep the ‘wrong’ ones out!
I’d like to chime in here. As a practicing attorney (on the side), I can fully attest to the issues Natalie raises in this post. I’ve been on both sides as a plaintiff’s lawyer and a defense lawyer as well as trying appellate cases. Once a case, assuming there is one, proceeds to court, it is rarely about the parties or the actual underlying facts. Unfortunately, in the legal profession in the US, some attorneys will take cases when there is no actual legal cause of action. Natalie is right. It gets really hard to separate facts, fiction, deception, and feelings once things proceed to litigation. Get a good attorney because it really isn’t about you or him once things go to court. It’s about the legal system and their. Not YOU!
So this got me going and I have a flip story. The exMM is a high powered attorney working with major law firms and was serving on the school board as the President. Problem was the school board was violating numerous statutes. We, the faculty, sued the school board with me acting as lead attorney on numerous cases. I was working out of my kitchen, licking my own stamps, and filing the cases myself.
We (I) won every case. Oh did that piss off the high powered attorney exMM. He claimed that there were bad judges, the district had bad lawyers, case after case. After many years of losing lawsuits, it became clear, they may have a problem. In this situation, he had a problem he had to answer to. To the dying end, he never stopped insisting that I didn’t win on the merits of over 7 cases and it was all about bad judges. Even though I won in appellant court, twice, and the California Supreme Court denied cert in one of the cases.
Boy did I doubt myself going through all that. I was a nobody attorney writing legal briefs in my kitchen suing my employer. Most importantly, once the exMM, high powered attorney and I got involved, he would still argue that I didn’t win seven cases, including appeals to the appellate court and the supreme court. Even though I could show him the case law and the monthly check for two decades. I was still wrong and he was right cos he was the high powered attorney and I was an professor filing legal briefs from my kitchen.
He won’t forget losing to me and he won’t forget losing me!
Aww, runner. Should we call a “wambulance” for the EX-MM? 🙂
Runnergirl…his ego is so big he absolutely cannot stand or fathom the truth…that he lost to you. No matter how hard it is for him to believe, you WON. No matter how he tries to spin it, you WON. No matter how hard he tries to make you doubt yourself, you WON. Frankly, by getting rid of him you WON on a more important level. You have your dignity and self-respect back. You go girl!
Runner,
Eewww. He fights hard to keep his ego inflated doesn’t he? It only shows how insecure he really is, no matter how he peacocks around in his importance. It’s always someone else’s fault why he wasn’t/isn’t on top, like being on top is the only important thing (shallow much?). We end up being tools for their climb to ego land. Pathetic really. I’ve reined myself in from saying it out loud but when guys do this I think, “Psssst….your little penis is showing”.
Selkie,that made me snarf…”Psssst….your little penis is showing”. How did you know he ‘peacocks around’?
Dcd568, he’s all about winning. And he LOST! So yeah Revs, time for the wambulunce.
You ladies are great.
Runnergirl…i work in the legal field as well…most high profile, high powered attorneys are peacocks!
Ey up runner
You know, when I’m low it cheers me up to remember that other people on this blog can handle bears… and now take on high-powered lawyers at their own game from their kitchen.
I loved that story 🙂
As usual, you’re writing what I need to ‘hear’ when I need to ‘hear’ it. This post definitely applies to friendships and family relationships as well as romantic ones. I definitely have a bad habit of internalizing people’s bad behavior even after I’ve already seen them treat others the same way.
The thing is when he did something bad or disrespectful to me i just went away for a few months. He came back and the same shit started again. She just sticks to him no matter how he treats. But does it make any difference? I guess not. I took that ass back ever other month and she every other day…. so humiliating on both sides. In the end i am in no position to judge her (just on the ringing on my door all the time, that was really too much… i even called the police the last time). I just leave the situation and that’s it. Built my boundaries up again and PERMANENT!
Hi Nat, your articles help me a great deal. I read many of them. This one helps me a lot because after I was abruptly discarded by my fiance for another woman, and he was mean and nasty when going, I was so devastated. I was devastated because I didnt see it coming, didnt know he was cheating, was looking forward to our upcoming marriage, when BAM! Overnight literally he was gone. He placed ALL the blame on me. I didnt make him feel special enough, I didnt do this or that good enough or blah blah blah. Since he had left three wives before me he had to place all the blame on me to save his precious image of leaving yet another woman he was committed to. A very painful experience indeed. Thank you for this article and others that confirm it for me that it is HIM and that his sgady behavior is NOT because Of something I did or didnt do. This IS who he is. You are so right! And he will repeat with the new woman right?
Lisa,
“And he will repeat with the new woman right?”
Umm….he up and left four women already. I’m not a betting woman, but this has better odds than the crap tables at the Bellagio!!
Hi Natalie,
Very nice blog and impeccable timing as always. I am going through a situation where i feel attacked by another woman who does not see my value. My response has been to stay far from this wench, who I believe has an overblown ego and serious insecurities and low self-esteem. This woman spends alot of time trying to malign me to everyone with two ears. I know who I am, I know what I am about and if persons want to run in packs, like wolves, I cannot stop them. What I do is work to be the best me I can be, knowing that God will serve them up a nice helping of whop ass when he chooses.
Have you actually threatened her with violence? You sound really angry. Maybe she just misunderstood your intentions…?
I have found that being in an abusive relationship is like being exposed to acid: it corrodes your very being. Even if your behavior was the issue, a dignified person would not abuse you, they’d simply walk away. We middle aged womyn out there in electron land were often raised to take a lot of emotional abuse and often do see such as normal. When we assert ourselves, we are “bitches”. VF lady, you give me some measure of hope where most of the time there is none.
I totally needed this today. Yesterday I sent an email to a friend saying that I was down about the way it ended with the EUAC I had been dating and wondering what vibe I gave off saying that I would like to be treated the way he treated me….even after discussing with him what was important to me in the relationship, etc.
A little back story–we dated last year and he ended it, I thought that it was a case of a man not ready to date because he wasn’t over his divorce. It hurt but I understood and moved on. Ten months later he comes back and asks to take me to dinner and apologizes. We had a great time, I saw that some of the previous issues had been resolved and we decided to see each other again…
Turns out he just wanted an ego stroke and a shag. Our last conversation was via text. He was on his way to see me (he lives an hour away) and asked how I was. I said fine but had cramps that morning (signaling the arrival of my period)…His reaction? He turned around on the highway and said he was going home! Gee, Kitty, guess there’s no doubt where you stand. He texted an apology several hours later which I have ignored as I want nothing to do with him.
But still in my mind I wondered what I had done that would lead him to believe that acting that way was okay. I KNOW I didn’t do a thing, but still the doubts are there.
Being on this board over the last few years has helped me a lot. The woman of the past would have found a way to forgive him. Now I realize that in relationships I tend to believe the best about people til the very end (and what an end!). I make the men more than what they are. He wanted to make me less than what I am. I know I have to work on this but truth be told I’d rather have this as a fault than what he suffers from–being a emotionally unavailable user/loser.
Kitty
Natalie,
Thank you so much for writing this post. I think that this explanation (one that you’ve talked about in different contexts in other posts) is probably the core idea that helped me to move on and heal from the pain inflicted on me by the AC. It helps to know that it’s nothing personal.
I remember when the AC and new girlfriend broke up, I asked a mutual friend what happened and she said, “Same thing that happened with you.” And that was that. She didn’t go into detail, as she knew that I didn’t want details (we never talked about him/them because I didn’t want to know, but my curiosity got the better of me when they broke up). Anyway, it really painted the picture that this dude was the same dude I knew when I was with him. He administered his assclown ways before me, during his relationship with me, and after me. Same old song and dance.
My father married my mother when they were around 18. My mother was mentally ill. She was disentigrating from schizophrenia. I know most of us feel deep pain and anxiety and even paranoia sometimes. But I know she really suffered from the voices in her head, the dillusions, and her mind crumbling. She had been different than most children from the time she was a baby, grew up in an abusive household, ran away, near joined a cult and then met my father. She was really pretty and even exotic looking though any healthy men initially interested in her would have seen very, very quickly that she was ill. My father instead saw it as an opportunity to own a pretty woman. Several years later I was born. I know he mind fucked her to the point of no return. He near did that to me as a child. I got away. I was not schizophrenic. I had a fighting chance. At 24 (plenty old to know better) my father left my mother and I when I was a baby. He said he left because something was wrong with her. But he left me with her. Why would he leave me with her knowing that? After a few months of trying to care for me, my mother finally dropped me off at my grandmother’s house then disappeared, never to come back and get me. I was passed from dysfunctional abusive household from dysfunctional abusive household. My mother would not make it. She took her life 12 years later after leaving me with my father’s mother. Where was my father in all of this? Being an addict. Chasing women, fame, and money. Does he care? Feel remorse? No and he feels nothing. I cut contact with him and he blames me. He goes around town with the personality of a big happy lab. Then if he feels that you have crossed him in any way, no matter who you are, he unleashes a horrid tirade of abuse directed squarely at you, then he goes on his merry way.
I wish I could say I was the only child hurt by his irresponsibility and carelessness. When I was six or so one of my father’s ex girlfriends came to him with news that she was pregnant and that the child he was carying was his. He denied it. Denied it for 17 years without paying a dime of child support and blamed her for lying. When my brother was 17-years-old his mother finally court ordered a DNA test and lo and behold the child was his. My younger brother has tried to forge a relationship with our father only to be emotionally abused and let down. My younger brother became a heroin addict.
My father used my mother, preying on her disability. He was cruel to her and left me for dead. He had no morals. I often wonder if he was born without a soul. I cannot relate to him on any level. I notice my dog gets depressed if I get home too late. She is my best friend and I do all I can to give her the care she needs. After all she is my responsibility! I love my dog more than my father ever loved me. He never loved me. I was just an inconvenience and a burden to him. To quote a Taylor Swift song, “You never loved her or me or anyone.” That girl’s onto something. Same goes for my father. He can’t love. He doesn’t have the capacity, never will and I don’t know why. I hope that he can change and that one day we can have a relationship. But he never will. Some people are just bad grapes and we can’t make them into fresh strawberries with a heart, or a shiny new apple. If we let them in our lives they will just make strawberry jam out of our hearts, eat it for breakfast, shit it out and out the door they go looking for more lonely hearts to make mush out of. I want to protect my heart. It is gold to me.
Peanut,
I’m so sorry that you were put through this.
Hugs
Peanut,
You are so strong. Hearing your story made me feel sick for you but also made me cheer for you for seeing the truth of your father and who he is. My dad was very cold like that too and it took me years to just be able to let him go. I’ve been NC with him for so many years I’ve lost count. A parent who hurts their kids with no remorse or second thought, over and over, is not right in the head. SOmething is wrong inside of them, and it had nothing to do with us. We were just in the way of their emotional plow. As children, we have very little choice in what happens to us and cannot just go NC on the people who hurt us, I think this is incredibly damaging in our developing minds and shapes us for how we engage in the future. It becomes about survival for some of us and it’s hard to escape that mindset when we grow up and can make choices for ourselves. We are left with a mess to unravel as adults without the proper emotional tools to do it. It’s taken me years to see my own unhealthy patterns, but I DO see them now. It takes effort, and forgiving myself when I falter, getting back up and trying agian. I’m able to separate myself from my dysfunctional father and his actions, but sometimes I have to take a minute and calm down in emotional situations and check in with myself that I’m not letting my dysfunctional learned habits take over and that my sensible, self loving soul is at the wheel instead.
Peanut, what a dreadful story! Please don’t hope for him to change. It’s a waste of your precious energy. Your odds of finding OTHER people who are wonderful, loving and nurturing are WAY WAY WAY higher. You don’t need your father in your life. You need good people. Finding THEM is worth hoping for.
I’m sorry for what happened to you. If you feel your history is holding you back from being happy, you should definitely seek help from a counselor you click with, and concentrate on yourself and your best options in the present scenario. I’m trying to do this, even though I come from a very “stable” family background the exact opposite of yours, yet I have lately been in such a bad way I have seriously considered ending my life. It can happen to anyone, anywhere.
Thank you, Natalie. I have a bone to pick about that soundbite: “We teach people how to treat us.” No we don’t. We teach people what we will tolerate. People are responsible for their own behaviors.
Lacy,
That book is horrid and dangerous. The things you described it advocates means that if ou took the advice and applied it to your life, you would be accepting constant abuse, toxicity and self abuse all the while trying to control another human being and aiding in enabling poor behavior. There are a plethora of devastatingly terrible relationship books, many written by women. They will tell you to sell your soul because that is what they are doing and they choose to not awaken to truth or anything better. Natalie’s materials will advocate personal responsibility and taking care of yourself and not sticking around for a abuse. I needed several sources to heal: a longstanding history of therapy with a well trained, qualified and trusted therapist, a support group, honest, ethical and informative books, and the support from BR.
Peanut you have to read if u haven’t may get something or you may not want to but personally Nats post inspire and empower me in all relationships in my life, although I am having my down moments what keeps me going is reading these post and all of you wonderful women sharing yoir experiences lets me know it is hope for me too.Also looking at my 3 children who see me suffer I know I have to do better for them, and that book had me thinking something else.
I really do love and respect her for all her accomplishments, but we all have a right to disagree with some of her work.
Thank you, everyone who responded. I really wanted to hear anything Natalie might have to say though:(
I actually used to like looking in the mirror before this guy arrived..and I was never one of those people who was scared of getting older and being unattractive to a man. I always thought in fact that a man would be alot like how my experience with other human beings has been: since him, I avoid even touching my face because it angers me let alone feel any joy in shopping or anything, I see how boring and uncool my life and everything in it is and how easy it was for him to dump me and it. He’s got everything, why would he want to have anything I have to offer. His girlfriend thinks she’s the luckiest woman that ever lived..and I have to agree with her.
Rebecca,
Why do you make your self worth about this guy?
If the GF knows about the behavior, she is a fool. This guy has nothing to offer, as he is a cheat and will continue to hurt. If she is unaware, I feel for her. These types of men are very destructive, as they don’t care about the damage they cause.
Please, please, please get some counseling. You are making your entire life about this guy and this is not healthy.
Rebecca
I understand how you feel – the MM i got involved with seemed to have everything, looks, talent, money, career, glamour. I felt like the beggar at his door. That feeling has passed gone now, I have started to like me and feel interested in myself again. You must stop comparing yourself with him and really try and explore what it is about you that makes you feel good, that you enjoy, that makes you shine. Spend time with people who laugh at your jokes and are interested in the same stuff as you. In the end you will just lose interest in him and what he does- it will no longer seem as though it’s anything to do with you. And it won’t be. However we appear on the outside, we all have our shit to deal with. You don’t know him very well. You only saw what he wanted you to see.
It amazes me the ones that are married and are totaly bewildered they’ve been hurt and treated badly. If i was married and having an affair with a woman, I would be thinking she must be shady and not to be respected much simply cos she’s seeing someone married.
Paolo
I won’t even attempt to justify myself as to why I got myself into that situation. It’s a long time over and I’ve had plenty of tome to reflect on it. However don’t you think it would be somewhat hypocritical to despise someone as shady who is having an affair with you, a married man, particularly if you had told various lies to induce her to do so, as did the person I got involved with and as did Rebeccas attached AC?
Why wouldn’t an AC who is a liar and a cheat, also be hypocritical? What the cheating and the lying wasn’t enough of a clue that something is wrong with this dude’s moral compass?
And, I agree with Paolo, these guys use women to try and meet their needs, needs that they should be meeting for themselves or getting from their primary relationship, and all the while these AC’s are thinking “Man, if she is putting up with this sh@te, what does that make her? She isn’t someone I respect, but I can control her and get what I want–wth, works for me.
(And it’s not just cheaters, who think this way of course….)
Hi Rebecca
I’ve been where you are in fact he was also an investment banker. He was the best looking guy I had ever seen and he pursued me in a very charming and admiring way, I was on top of the world. Then he dumped me without telling me, just disappeared. I spent months and months and feeling sorry for myself, wanting him back, feeling I wasn’t pretty enough, smart enough, rich enough, sexy enough etc etc. But there comes a time when you just have to stop placing someone on a pedestal so high that all they can do is look down. He may not even be literally looking down at you but it will feel like he is because you have placed him so high in your opinions. As Natalie always says “he really isn’t that special”. Believe that. I actually went to see a counselor because I was fed up with thinking about him and his wonderful life all the time, I just couldn’t get him out of my head. I tracked him on Facebook and Twitter and totally tormented myself. My counselor told me in no uncertain terms that this guy had treated me badly and I didn’t care! Where was my self love? And that’s the question you need to ask yourself. I’m not preaching or judging because like I said I’ve been where you are. You must not think that this guy is your be all and end all because he isn’t. Even if he left his girlfriend and chose you is he really the person you want to be with? He’s a cheater, liar and manipulator. Please don’t make your life depend on this guy.
I’ve noticed many comments about good looking ACs.I can understand falling head over heels for a good looking one, but what’s my excuse. He was a cross between John Cleese as skinny Basil Fawlty and Mario from the kids Mario Party Game. Didn’t stop me putting him up on that damn pedestal though.I used to think he was the most gorgeous creature that ever walked the planet and the higher I put him the lower I became. Thank God I’m out of there!
“Love looks not with the eye, but with the mind” Shakespeare.
Cupid was blind. Love is blind.
People don’t love each other because of what they see with their eyes; they love because of what they think about the other person in their mind
The reason why someone is mistreating you is because that’s what they do. You can do the work to address why you’re still there or why you’re internalising their behaviour but what you cannot do is see you as an extension of their behaviour.
This is a really powerful realization for me. I think I often accepted some responsibility for the disrespectful way my boundaries were broken and not respected. I self questioned a lot – was I doing something wrong? And then I tried to work so hard to “fix things” so that I could have a better marriage. That was also a form of blame taking actually. For many reasons I have found it hard to really deep down accept that “this is what he does” – I always wanted to believe his statements about changing were real. I am much much closer to understanding “this is what he does and the kind of person he is.” Just last night I realized he just wants an emotional air bag in the relationship to listen to him. It could actually be almost anybody.
A new tactic is for him to say “we were simply different and had a difference of opinions.” That wasn’t what happened in the marriage. He was an undeveloped person who denied his issues and was disrespectful to me as well as unengaged and not “there” as a partner. This created a toxic and confusing environment. I reacted in a way to protect myself and my children’s security that was harmful (to me). I understand more of why I did this. Not everything..yet. But I object to his “revisionist” language about what happened and the way this minimizes me.
Reaching out to BR friends and readers for support on this one: (I apologize this isn’t on topic to this yet another amazing post! but again, I feel like I need some support)
So I almost don’t even want to write this out because I have been distancing myself from thoughts of him and I don’t miss the helpless, overwhelming feeling of it all. That’s also EXACTLY when these ACs decide to contact you, isn’t it. Sure enough, in true AC form, just when I’ve gone a few days not being debilitated with obsessive thoughts and still on a month and a half of NC, he contacts me . 1) lazy pointless communication (facebook) 2) after a month and a half of hearing nothing feeling like maybe he’s finally accepted that I’m not taking him back a fourth time for more of his total BS 3) it’s my birthday next week, so he sent me a “reminder” of my own birthday like I didn’t know that and gave me the smiley face icon. “You still have my number blocked I miss you your birthday is coming up next week ?” What about this makes him think I care or will respond? It says NOTHING I haven’t heard him say before, and well basically it says just that, NOTHING. DUH I have your number blocked for a reason! Just this amount of thought over this I know I’m still giving him too much space in my brain! UGH! And I’m going over those feelings of being “mean” for ignoring him, but I HAVE HAVE HAVE to remember how awful it has always felt to fall for his meaningless drivel, his constant lies, his entire being of just plain ickiness. I remember someone posting here when another reader asked, “why isn’t he contacting me?” and someone’s answer to that was “because he’s on to his next victim and he WILL contact you when his supply is low…only to blow cold on you again.” I’ve kept that with me through all of this! Responding in any manner, is so not worth : killing how far I’ve come, how far I still have to go, breaking No Contact, breaking my dignity and pride and belief in myself and my gut EVER AGAIN! Thank you to Natalie and everyone here for this amazing place to come for support, REAL honest to goodness support from people I’ve never even met but feel a connection to regardless because of all the stories we’ve shared.
NCC,
Why didn’t you block him on FB?
Block him!
Thanks Allison, DONE! 🙂
No more temptation! 🙂
What is killing me about the last handful of exceptionally fantastic posts is that the various ACs/EUMs and other sundry unsavoury acronyms out there are probably applying said posts to themselves, i.e. THEY are the poor, picked upon little parties wronged by US. Okay, have to get over that; hopefully they are all too busy living in that other world to read BR 🙂
Rebecca,
You are adamant on how wonderfully perfect this dude is… No matter what anyone says.
Do you have a life purpose? I’m assuming u had something that kept u breathing before him… and u will after him IF YOU SO CHOOSE. For as long as you refuse you will be wallowing in your valley. Go ahead and scream n get it out… then…. when ur done thrashing around down there come back n reread the comments directed to you. Maybe then you’ll actually comprehend what ur being told. They have to do with YOU not him… something you can’t seem to conceive of right now.
I used to actually feel optimism about the future..used to not care too much how I even looked. Now, all I feel is hatred for that person I see in the mirror, despise her for being so unlovable and such a pain in the neck for everyone around her, and how she’ll never do anything right, leave alone find a way to become someone worthwhile
Lacy,
You are right I have not read the book and, yes, sometimes we stand to gain insights from sources. But the ideas you described from this book have me very concerned.
I wish you nothing but wellness on your struggle and in your journey. This life is hard and can really take it out of us. Even though the lessons get tiring they never stop. I am trying to reconcile and make peace with that. To our healing xx.
Selkie,
You know, I’ve told my story sooooo many times. I swear it’s like I have to purge it out so that I stop identifying with it so that I can stop letting my past run my present and future. Thank you for listening 🙂 Also, I find myself reverting to a near teenage demeanor when I write or think about the things that have happened to and around me. This is an improvement. I used to be like a five-year-old stomping around and forcing everyone to listen to her tantrum and hear her cry. I have been doing a lot of inner child work in therapy. As much flack as it gets, it’s pretty powerful stuff. It is inspiring that you have maintained no contact with your father. This stuff isn’t easy but it is doable. Happiness is a job, a mission should we choose to accept it.
I’d add steer clear of any woman friends who are going to affirm for you, that yes, if you did something differently, the outcome would be different. I wasted years of my life listening to these nonsensical women. While some of their insights were true, had they had well-rounded knowledge they should have known that once I started making some changes, I should have seen some changes from the men too. Only the totally fucked up men never change. And there are way too many of them in this world.
Thsnks, Tabitha. That does help and it’s quite insightful
I’d like to post re.this topic.but in a round about way.
Regular readers may remember that for the past 6 mths I have been in severe financial hardship. For the 1st 3 mths I had no income at all, & the last 3 mths my income has been welfare payments so low I cannot meet even my minimal cost of living which.may eventually result in me losing my home.
My one saving grace has been the generosity of a local church which reviewed my sitch & decided to provide me with weekly food parcels. I was deely.moved & grateful for this.
I am in this position (now to the topic) AS A RESULT OF BEING MISTREATED.BY MY (NOW FORMER) EMPLOYER & A DODGY INSURANCE COMPANY. I have.been absolutely BESIDE MYSELF with distress at the thought of losing.my home. I looked at properties to try to downsize to last week, in an effort to prepare for the worse.
Meanwhile, I APPEALED the dodgy & wrongful ceassation of my insurance payments. This was not an easy thing to do. I have been put through the wriger with every aspect of my life under a microscope.
Well, I just like to report the outcome of my appeal. I WON!!!! Yep!! Little ol me, against a big huge company, withput even a lawyer representing me WON! I’m waithing to hear.what the exact sum of.my payout will be but hopefully it will at least save my home (yet to be ascertained).
I was.bullied terribly as a child & have experienced this in workplaces also (although this wasn’t a bullying case).
I just want to thank everyone for your wonderful support throughout what were very dark times this past 6 mths & to encourage ppl to stand thier ground if they are being mistreated in any away (including removing oneself from the source if.needs be). No-one ought to be mistreated & the only one who can ever really protect us is ourselves.
Love to all xx
This is the best news I’ve heard in a long time. Congratulations Teach and I hope the payout is HUGE!! Hugs, xx.
TEACH!!!!!!!!
Damn STRAIGHT, girl!!!! Congratulations!!!!!!
…Never doubted for a second that you’d win against the bulldogs. 😉
Teachable,
Yay! Congratulations! I bet this is such a relief to you.
Teachable, you are simply fantastic! You fighter you! You showed them as you are continuously, relentlessly, persistently showing all of us how to live a life of congruency and values! Big squeezy hug!
Rebecca,
I don’t usually do this, but I went back and re-read your comments and thought about them. Because some of the things I read made me a little alarmed for you. I hear the anguish and self-hatred in your comments more clearly now, and I hear the plea for us to tell you what’s wrong with YOU that you supposedly drove this paragon of a man (notice my tongue in my cheek?) away from you. Another thing I notice is that, despite our attempts to talk you out of it with a healthy slap of reality, you insist on clutching this idea of this man as being the end-all be-all of human existence.
I’m not going to argue that last point again, because you’ve heard my (and all of our) position on it already. My gut is telling me that you aren’t going to relax your hold on that. You seem rather invested at keeping that picture of him. So let’s just talk about you, shall we? What’s wrong with YOU that drove this “committed” man away from you into the arms of his fiance and other women.
You say that you used to have optimism for the future and you used to care about how you looked. Now you can’t see anything good about you or your future. Now, ask yourself: is it logical to change your entire worldview–the way you’ve seen your future life and yourself since you first knew you–for someone you knew for what? Didn’t you say this guy bailed after 5 weeks? What happened in that 5 weeks that made you trust that you could hand over the reins of your life and the judgement of your heart, mind, and soul to him?
I think you already know that this is a separate problem, a deeper problem, than this guy future-faking and then leaving you. He was just the trigger for your already poor self-esteem, which teetered into self-hatred (almost like it was the last straw) when he left you.
Let me say this and I’ll be done with it:
Until you hold him responsible for what he did and yourself responsible for strengthening your own self-esteem, you will be in pain. And none of us will be able to help you.
Thank you for not being harsh. I don’t know if you’ve read Natalie’s book, the dreamer/fantasy r/s, she talks about how people stuck on a fantasy or whatever keep disappointing friends/confidants. I don’t talk about this to anyone now even though its as bad as ever, because people are sick of it, and whats more, sick of seeing me STUCK.
What scares me is its been a FULL TWO AND A HALF YEARS and I’m in the exact same mental place. People here talk about NC and getting better after 6 months or even three months (LUCKY LUCKY LUCKY 🙁 ). Try I YEAR of NC, I did that after the skype where he text dumped me. I complete year. It was hell within hell. The reason I was so thankful to have him make all those plans and talk to me and ask after me and pictures was, apart from worshiping him, knowing I was leaving the hell of my mental state without him.
I WAS busy, highly, I couldn’t bear to appear a loser in his eyes even though that is what I am, and was always always trying to be someone he would admire (what a pathetic delusion). I went out all the time, dressed up, studied, built up my cv. But I was on a bed of sharpest nails, recalling what had happened, reality.
These past 9 months have DEVASTATED me or whatever I had left, which really was nothing. He would communicate some lazy way, blow hot/warm, and then just as I’d think “he WOULDNT do this, knowing what he knows about my feelings”, bam. Gone.
My problem, my BIGGEST problem, is forgetting. I genuinely believe NC will not be a problem, because not only has it been the longest he’s ever gone with not contacting (over 7 weeks), even I have utterly given up thinking he has any feelings for me whatsoever.
My problem is this: I’m terrified beyond my senses of NOT moving on, because I’ve tried it for a full year and it didnt work, of losing even more of my life this way because I’m genuinely going through life like a ghost, or should that be ghoul.
I’ve had the image of him doing and saying things which WON’T leave my head, and its been over 2 complete years.
I have made honest, wholehearted (please please believe me) attempts at getting out of it all (how do you think I found BR and bought all Natalie’s books and read them) but I NEVER seem to move an inch and ALWAYS end up in this “place”, and I genuinely am terrified it will never stop, and this feeling will NEVER go, and the thoughts and memories will persist until I end up in some institution. I am SO tired and SO scared.
Rebecca
Different circumstances in some aspects of your story, but I totally understand no contact not working and no matter how much time goes by you remain with the same feelings you did at day one of no contact.
I also understand that there doesn’t seem to be an off switch to it all.
2013 has been the worst year for me and I thought the only way out of my situation and to turn the thoughts off was to commit suicide.
It scared me enough that my thinking was so low over one man that I could end it all that I finally made an appointment to see a psychologist and get help and it is helping for the first time I have hope that is a way out of the mess.
You say you have looked and looked for a way out but no where do you write that you have sought professional help for your circumstances.
Please go and get some help, Rebecca, no man is worth ending your life over.
Rebecca,
I commented earlier in the comments string, under Tink’s rather forthright (and helpful) comment to you. Please take some steps to get yourself some help, dear. Wishing you all the best, love.
Rebecca,
It took me as long as I was in the relationship to heal from it – 5 years.
I had the same issue, it’s like PTSD, where an image of him doing and saying certain things would haunt me, I would re-live it over and over again.
One day, it was like Helen Keller and W-A-T-E-R – something just clicked and I realized it was my imagination, my memories and those I could control. Next time the memory came up, I had him apologize to me, fall on his knees telling me how sorry he is and how much he loves me, over and over and over again.
Every time one of those old memories would come up, I would change it to an outcome *I* wanted, and after a few months, images that had haunted me for YEARS disappeared.
I didn’t get stuck in fantasy, I was able to distinguish between the imaginary abuser and the real life person. A memory of my baby’s death from 24 years ago dissipated in a similar fashion. It doesn’t change what happened, it just keeps me from re-living it eternally. I don’t for a second believe he never did those things, or that my baby is still magically alive somewhere, I am simply no longer tortured by the memories.
Although he isn’t as charming and flashy as the ex, the boyfriend is a far better person. He’s not boring, he’s funnier and we have better conversations. Even if the exes had stopped with the mistreatment, we couldn’t have had the relationship I currently enjoy. They didn’t have it in them. The bad behaviour isn’t masking a good person underneath it all. The bad behaviour is because there isn’t anything underneath it all. They lack depth and emotional connection, so fill the gap with charm, sex and lies.
I get that they can change but I personally have never seen it. Even the ex who married and went on to have a child, was the same selfish cheater underneath it all. He was still full of himself, still thought he was a great catch, and still had women thinking he was fantastic. When his wife and child were upstairs sleeping he was sexting me. That’s how the wonder-exes are treating their oh-so-lucky wives.
The ones who DID change you don’t get to hear about because they’re not harrassing you! They certainly won’t be back rubbing your nose in their new relationship and denying their progeny. Who does that?!
Funny thing is, I had my boyfriend on a pedestal when we were starting out but thanks to BR and The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship (I recommend it even if the relationship is real if you’re someone prone to fantasy), I was able to stay grounded. He’s actually better than I fantasised. We need to lose the drama and fantasies. that is what we get hooked on, it’s got very little to do with the actual man. We are fuelling a lot of it ourselves and when we stop that, or at least 90% stop it, we are free to see him for what he is and it opens us up to new and better.
I still just about remember what it was like being stuck, and there IS something quite comforting in turning it over and over and over rather than making the changes. It’s what you’ve done, it’s what you know, and it limits the future to more of the same. What I learned is that it’s not worth the time. Before he met you he did what he did, he did what he does when he was with you, and with the new person he is doing it still. Who do we think we are that what he does is all about us?
The relationship isn’t what you want it to be, it isn’t what you desire, it isn’t what you dream, it isn’t if only … it is exactly what it is you’re experiencing.
I could sit in a dead end job paying less than minimum wage and working all hours, and tell myself that it would be so much better if they paid more and I worked normal hours. I could leave and then tell you all day long that they treat the next employee so much better and I’m going to hang around until they re-employ me.
Hopefully, you’ll tell me to just get another job!
“The bad behaviour isn’t masking a good person underneath it all. The bad behaviour is because there isn’t anything underneath it all. They lack depth and emotional connection, so fill the gap with charm, sex and lies”
Oh Grace – thanks for posting that. I really believed he was a good person w/ bad behavior. But had a hard time reconciling his shallowness and “apparent” lack of depth. After all the crap I put up with, I remember replying to his “I am a bad person” that no he wasn’t – just had bad behavior. LMAO THANKS AGAIN GRACE!! Always love what you post!!
It’s their character!! Not us.
I’m not really addressing this to anyone in particular but thought elaboting by posting.might help to clear my thoughts further.
I was raised to believe I was lazy, dumb & basically a total no-hoper who would never amount to anything good. I was specifically told these things over & over for the entire duration of my childhood, (& actually I’m too embarressed to post here more precise terrible things I was told / were done to me as they were so humiliating that only my therapist knows the detail) accompanied by other forms of abuse. Although I knew I was neither lazy, nor dumb (I had day to day evidence of this ie high grades at school etc) I DID believe I was ‘no hoper who would never amount to anything’ even though I tried specifically, not to. By this, I mean at approx age 7-8 yo, I started meditating in a lying down position on the floor, face upward, with my hands gently resting on my abdomen. I would then concentrate on my breathing, as I visualised the verbal abuse I was constantly subjected to as arrows & my abdomen as made of hard steel / or concrete that deflected the arrows (verbal / emotional abuse) as they came toward me.
I did this quite often, along with challenging my abusers (sadly, more than 1) as I grew older with the physical strength to back up my resolve to no longer tolerate the abuse. Still, I know I internalised very.much there WAS something ‘wrong’ with me & clearly it was that I was ‘no good & always would be’. I then, again sadly, set about in an immature, dangerous & risk taking way proving this to be true! Insane right? You betcha because guess what? MY ABUSERS WERE WRONG. DEAD WRONG. It was not until I escaped however & spent a couple of yrs literally venting my spleen at society before desperately searching for & finally accessing professional help, that I realised this.
So, that was a very EARLY lesson for me, yet is also one that represents every few years in different (usually more subtle) forms. Today was one of those times. I’ll refrain from details but it was an incident involving my sister (who is toxic). I was in LC mode & made an error in bringing the sitch on MYSELF though as I initiated contact w her (& should not have). I can handle being polite from a distance if she needs to contact me but that is my absolute limit.
My issue now is trying not to beat myself up for making this mistake. It seems I’m a slow learner! Who knew!!
Rebecca
Yep, what you describe is sounding real familiar, please, please get help, find someone to talk to. You are worth far, far more than this trash bag. We care about you here at BR, that douche does not.
This post sooo resonated with my past few days. Finished an on campus ropes course. AC wasn’t supposed to be there, having been two weeks the field but he showed up and was put to work right next to yours truly. Kept working, power tools prevented any conversation which was good. He very awkwardly tried to thank me at the end of the project but I just left. Yesterday, I went to the one grocery store and current victim and former friend is there, we both almost simultaneously turn our heads away from one another. We are both greeted by four other employees at my campus (life in the fishbowl) and are stuck next to one another in the one operating check out line. I memorize her vehicle so I can check the parking lot next time I shop so this never happens again. I was corresponding with an on line dude close by (a mere 50 mile one way drive) who wants to take me technical climbing, I have only solo free climbed so I need gear which involves checking said gear out from ACs building. I carefully check out the parking lot for ACs truck; not there:good. I go n looking for dude that deals with gear and in walks AC. He’s falls all over himself wanting to set me up with stuff though I told him I did not wish to bother him. He then is effusive with praise for my work on the ropes course and wants to write an article on the project and have me recognised for my work. I politely say I want no such thing and leave. I email climber dude to tell him I have gear and have a scathing email from him about a remark I made about unprepared tourists in the mountains and how we all need to be responsible for ourselves in the woods (dude is in search and rescue). Red flag. Clear sign of a potentially abusive person. No climbing. Have a text from a friend in town, a former victim of AC who did up and leave to get away with little consideration of consequences and is financially ruined. She is angry, bitter, hypercritical and often needs to vent. I cannot deal with anything more on the subject and go for a run in an area where I will not encounter anyone. In between tears, pitying my stupid, gullible alone self while AC gets to have, I assume, an enjoyable evening, I realize at least I did not allow any mistreatment of self, neither AC, new victim, climber dude, or embittered friend. That is as good as its gonna get here. Today, I am taking self off to a town 60 miles south where hopefully no one will know me and later will host a gathering at the local distillery AFTER carefully checking the parking lot (life in the fishbowl).
My friend just introduced me to you and what she did was give me the best present ever. What you’ve talked about I can certainly relate to you. You have and are helping me greatly mend and move forward. Thanks ever so much.
The reason why someone is mistreating you is because that’s what they do. You can do the work to address why you’re still there or why you’re internalising their behaviour but what you cannot do is see you as an extension of their behaviour.
I could weep with joy at this. Weep with joy, while I’m engraving it in filligree lettering on a solid gold plate as big as the sun. This is it — this is the learning. Read it, read it again, read it out loud, tattoo it to the insides of your eyelids, write it all over your soul, pipe it out in icing on a big cake and eat that cake until you internalise this. Whatever happened to you, girls, THIS is WHY.
Brilliant, it’s all so true!
The periods in my life when I put my ex on a pedestal and thought he was together and a golden boy (as people told me) and I wasn’t- were ones when I didn’t really value MYSELF. When I started to see that I was strong, had handled so much, was perceptive, smart, successful and connected well with people his star began to fade. Still working on that but really I wasted SO much time thinking he was together and was “nice” when now I see that he has very serious emotional issues that my gut was telling me about all the time. I wouldn’t put any man on a pedestal anymore. It means you are putting yourself down.
Noquay
I really feel for you and respect the work it must be taking to keep your boundaries up especially when you are blindsided by the AC showing up despite your best efforts to avoid him. It must be like trying to avoid a toxic waste site that keeps leaking into the life you want to be nourishing and supportive to you.
I am going through a phase of having to be hyper vigilant with my ex who wants to “make up” for all the things that he thinks went wrong in the marriage. It is intrusive, not wanted and is inappropriate and makes me feel edgy and uncomfortable. Like writing xxxxxooo at the bottom of emails, telling me he will always want to share things with me forever, saying how close he feels to me…when I have never given him any indication I want or even appreciate this at this stage of our relationship. And ironically since boundary breaking and lack of respect were among the main problems in the marriage…he is still not able to observe MY boundaries or to respect them. I feel like I have to build these huge emotional walls and it is tiring, sometimes I slip up and actually I feel like shit sometimes because in real life I am generous, kind and supportive to my friends. This is the trap I always fell into…how can you resent such a “nice” person?
I trying to be prepared to be blindsided by something he does that I don’t expect because that is what he does.
This is a quote I wrote down from somewhere, but I unfortunately did not note the author, but it is very appropriate for us:
“It is much easier to teach good (wo)men to be wise than to teach bad (wo)men to be good.”
Education is the key, we have to educate ourselves to defend ourselves in this life or be eaten by the sharks and wolves that roam amoung us, the most deadly being those wolves in sheeps clothing…those lovely narcissists that landed a lot of us here…
And I will repeat a recent post by someone on this site, and I agree whole heartedly as they will treat us how they will because it’s who they are:
“we don’t teach people how to treat us, we teach them how much we will tolerate”
Rebeccadewinter love, I really feel for you and I hope you soon find that key that will set you free from that dank dark prison you find yourself in at the moment. There is a way out, keep informing yourself, read the other sites suggested here, somewhere along the line the fog will begin to clear and the pieces will come together.
“Time itself does not heal, it’s what you do with the time that does”
Hi Rebecca,
This will be my last post to you. There are just three things I wish to say.
1. It sounds as if you’re blaming God or whatever deity you’re praying to. Your refusal to lift a finger to help yourself isn’t Deity’s fault; it’s yours. If you’re praying to the same God I do, He’s given us free will. By yoyr choosing to absolve yoyrself from all responsibility in your healing, yoy’re telling God, “No. I don’t want to be healed.
2. You do need to see a doctor, possibly a psychiatrist if it’s been two years & you’re suicidal
3. My caring isn’t an emotional caring. I save that for people who are trying. Thus, I’m nor angry or disgusted.
Good luck, Rebecca!
‘Character doesn’t…change on a daily basis or from person to person. You don’t ‘provoke’ people into doing shady stuff by just breathing and believing that you’re an unworthy person. Regardless of what you’re feeling about you, they’re being themselves.’
Heartfelt thanks for this Natalie – I needed to be reminded of that. Today my narc sent me a blank text. First contact since we ended it and I went NC last month. Yes it may have been a mistake but I sincerely doubt it, considering my number’s not even saved in his phone book. And this is very ‘him’ behaviour, like a game. The old me would’ve responded and been curious, but (apart from the fact I’m in NC and know if I’m to ever get over him I cannot contact him – and each day is a little easier the further away from him I get) I suspect depending on which particular personality he’s showing the world today, he would only either ignore my response or say it’d been a mistake. It would just be about getting control back, checking I was still there, an ego stroke.
Bigger picture, I’m guessing he doesn’t like it that I’ve not caved in and contacted him. Doesn’t like that I might not be there anymore, waiting.
But the revelation of all of this, was how I dealt with it, which surprised myself! A few weeks ago this crumb would’ve got me into all sorts of trouble. Sent me spiralling. But I didn’t dwell on it or think up every available scenario or what he meant by it. It was a blank text – says it all, not even a word! I know better now than to let this man dominate my thoughts or my life, so instead I just thought ‘thinking of me, huh? Good. You lose, buster. Thanks for stroking MY ego.’ and moved on to something else. Thanks to BR, I know better now than to let HIS out of the blue random actions take ME down. Yes I still miss him at this point, but because I WILL NOT let him hurt me again, I CANNOT go there. End of.
Which brings me to Rebecca.
Rebecca I’ve read all the posts you’ve written and I think it would help you enormously, if I may say, to talk to someone professional (in addition to all the wonderful ppl on here) about your sense of self worth; but in the meantime please please please don’t get hung up on him and her, what he’s doing with her, how lucky she is etc. SHE IS WITH A MAN WHO CHEATS ON HER. Feel sorry for her if you’re going to think anything about her. You do not want to switch places with her, trust me. Being envious of her on top of all the other stuff you’re dealing with will eat you up. So even if you can’t get him out of your head, at least get this ‘dream’ life he’s supposedly living out of your head, because it’s not real.
Of course the key is being happy with ourselves regardless of whether there’s a love or not in our lives, but wouldn’t you like an EVEN BETTER guy than this one? Wouldn’t you like a guy who treats you brilliantly? He’s out there Rebecca, a guy who’ll be good for you, but he won’t even stand a chance with you if this AC is metaphorically standing in his way. Right now this guy who ignores you and has lied to you is standing between you and your future. And you’re letting him. Think about it…
Rebecca,
Reading your posts is painful because like many others here I’ve been where you are. I know what it feels like to be devastated, tired and scared. You say that “my BIGGEST problem, is forgetting”. Perhaps that’s where you are going wrong. You cannot just forget and you need to stop trying to. You are going to have to work through all this pain. There is no avoiding it and if you do the work you will find a way out of this. This man sounds like a narcissist and they are the worst abusers of our emotions. He has clearly triggered something deep within you and when you find out what you will start to feel better. Like others have suggested I would seek professional help and can vouch that it is worth every dollar. Rebecca you are not helpless you found BR didn’t you? You are reaching out and that shows strength. Sending lots of hugs and more strength your way.
Blushes deeply with a shy smile. Thankyou Lilly, Selkie, Rev, Teddie & all those who generously offered words of encouragement along the way. Things remain quite complex until they are all sorted out but this is good start. Thankyou again so much, esp also to Nat. This site has been invaluable at a time when I’ve had a greatly reduced capacity to venture oyt into the real world (a
Tinkerbell, I do see a therapist once a mth and a psychiatrist once, that prescribed me antidepressents.
I am not posting to recieve therapy from Nat or anyone and I was prepared knowing that people will not agree and judge.I respect and get a lot of insight from you women and Nats post but I really think the part where u say I’m a bad mother or a spot for sperm is out of order, you are entitled to your opinion.
I am not mad, I mostly u are right.I am trying maybe not as hard enough or fast enough as everyone would like me t change but I am making the effort. He called twice yesterday and I did not answer.I am aware I am the problem thats why I have seeked help.I work everyday and I do take care of my kids, but emotionally I am a wreck, but I pray and I know day by day I’ll get better.
My story long and as u say hard to read or makes no sense is a true story no matter how stupid I look to you or anyone.My life is not the life of a fairy princess but I have been blessed in some areas in life.My mom and dad despite they have had their on problems are there for me and my children but I have never told them what I’ve been going thru emotionally, but she did say once that she hopes I find a good man, but I know I have to get myself together that is the last priority right now.
My mom and dady have been together 48 yrsI have plenty of sis and brothers although I feel alone and have felt that way since 11 I’m really not.I did a lot of growing up on my own and being too grown at an early age.
Coming on this sit listening to u guys I am not seeking therapy that would be disrepectful a underhanded those are services u pay for and to ask someone for a service free of charge is not right.Also continuing to dump my baggage on people is not right either.
What I get on this sight is insight on how a healthy relationship should be, and how a woman shpuld be loved and respected.My mom and Dad have been together for yrs and they have had loving moments but he had a lot of assclown days and she stuck it out .
The thing is I thought some stufd u except if u love someone and I’m learning its not right.Thk u for ypur input.
Lacy,
Why haven’t you blocked him, or changed your number? If you’re serious, you will take the necessary actions.
I blocked him 3 mths ago he came to my house the same time my daughter got out of school, I wasn’t hm from work yet she called me and said he was there, he told her he had talked to me and waiting at the door to give me food.I told her it wasn’t true at that point he got on the phone and thats how he got my cell cause I changed it and blocked him from my house line but he would call every day from different nums once daily.
I never went into detail with her about why we weren’t talking.I should’ve all she knew was if she heard his voice on the house line was to say I wasn’t hang and hang up.
He said I needed to talk to him cause he needed. Closure or figure out if we will be back together, and he will make it hard for me to move on it will get really bad for me.I figured I could at talk to him after 3mths I was strong enough to have a last convo with him.We met and talked he said he wasn’t with anyone and he wanted a relationship with me.I agreed knowing it wasn’t real I hoped it was, all this was on a wed .Thur we talked briefly I felt the change in his voice but he planned for us to go out on sat, we talked fri, sat he text at 9 wyd? I asked where was he that I would meet him he said at his friend house and he’ll call me in a sec never did.Sun morn I sent a long text he text back don’t start that he fell asleep, and I’m pushing him away cause I don’t trust him.I went 3mths Nc he called everyday honest to God I did not dial his num had changed my cell blocked him on the house line, I’m guilty of after 3 mths of nc I shouldn’t agreed to meet with him.I should’ve called the police, but I don’t want another problem with him I live bymyself.
I didn’t think he would behave so stupid especially after demonstrating he has no love for me has several other women and has not done anything to make me or anyone think he wants me in his life, but this is the game he plays.
I will not play the game anymore this is not love this does not show he loves me he just wants to keep a fool around.
I would miss me too, all the crap I took and all the help I gave him,thats why he stays in contact, but I need someone in my life that celebrates me not bring me down.
Lacy – sometimes, doesn’t it feel like life’s problems are a bag of marbles that spilled out onto the floor, all going in different directions, and it’s your job to pick them all up, all by yourself, as quickly as you can? I know I’ve felt that way…the hardest part is knowing WHICH marble to go after first. Sometimes, it’s so dizzying you find yourself just sitting there mesmerized by all the marbles, unable to discern which marble is in the most danger.
As Allison has said, Lacy. Why not block him? Why are you remaining available to him? You are on the right tract with professional therapy. I hope you will make great strides FAST. I realize everyone learns, grows stronger and makes the necessary changes at their own pace. But, since you are a mother, you have more responsibility than to yourself alone. There is always room for trying harder.
Tinkerbell he is blocked but his calls and text still show up on my phone but he can’t get thru.He text today he’s in the area did I want him to come over? He text again said he know something is wrong what am I mad about now that he knows when I’m mad.
I didn’t respond cause that statement shows me even more how heartless he is towards me.How do u not know why I’m hurt and depressed? In jan he said all u do is go to work and home u need a vac and he knows he is part of the reason why at the time I was having problems with my daughter.She start having problems in school talking back to her teachers.
Yet and still he hurt and lie to me the very next day. Its like dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde.I am on my way of getting myself together.
That stuff I thought was love for is gone.I think it was obsession.Smart good looks knows everyone.Now I feel like I need to be obsessed with me, connect more with my children and live and love me.Thks tink and Allison.
Lacy,
Please change your number. I would also get a restraining order. This guy does not want to give up: sex, meal ticket or ego strokes.
He doesn’t care about anyone!
Espresso
Thanks, you made my morning. I think AC is either totally clueless or does not care about my life nor my boundaries and yep, here in the fishbowl one is in one anothers space all the time. Last night I hosted a gathering at a local establishment. After checking the blasted parking lot for unwanted vehicles, I eventually found myself sitting next to ACs colleague who is a friend, my boss was in the next room, there were several of my present and former students in the place, a good many friends of a toxic friend I had to offload were at the table behind me. What I did not write in my last post was that apparently AC was within a hairs breadth of being fired. The person who relayed this info knew nothing about my situation with him. As much as it hurts, overall I have done far better than his other victims that I know about. They are all going thru or went through major crises and upheaval due to him. He ex had to essentially disappear, the last vic did not complete her degree and is a mess, one fled precipitously and may be paying for that well into her old age. Perhaps, trying to date again, I am a tad hypervigilant, am focussing on men far enough away so I don’t have to ever see them again if things fail (not hard as there are zero high functioning males near here), and am reallycareful about ggiving out the phone number or email addresses. Espresso, can you just change your email so you do not have to deal with this dude? My smartphone breaking was a blessing in disguise as I could not recover my gmail account and had to start anew.
Noquay, sounds like this is the bear beyond all bears or simply a cockroach. Google the new research on cockroaches. They are amazingly complicated creatures. So, stand your ground in the fish bowl. He isn’t worth your future. I live in the fish bowl too and I get it. I had an incident last week during finals that involved a cheating student and campus police. As I was discussing the situation with my dean, ex sociopath prof shows up standing at the printer trying to listen while pretending he was at the printer. He has this way of suddenly appearing the minute he hears my voice. The minute I saw him, I told my dean that I would email her with the details as I didn’t want ex sociopath eveadropping and writing about it in his stupid blog. Of course, I said it loud enough for him to hear. He saudered off with his dick between his legs. He was eveasdropping. It was obvious. Stupid idiot.
Stay the healing course Noquay. Again, use your best blanks and stop this nacr in his tracks. He’s a stupid idiot too. I’d think we had the same stupid idiot ex’s but there isn’t a mountain here.
I think I have a tendency to internalize it so as to create a false sense of then having some control over their behavior. If I make it about me, I can change my behavior to see if they will change theirs. Maybe I have the ego problem!
So glad that BR is still here. I was divorced 10 years ago, from a man who was a manipulative,secretive, threatening man. My confidence was whittled away during our marriage, but after 25 years I found the courage to leave. Just a year ago I discovered that he had been having affairs with men and felt so angry that I had not only been abused, but used by him to give the impression of a heterosexual relationship, when he was too terrified to ‘come out” I thought I had closure from my marriage, but have been in turmoil this last year……until I read this post. Knowing what I now know, the final piece of the jigsaw has fallen into place. He was never emotionally there in our marriage, his continual abuse of me was coming from his own confusion about himself. He is still living his lie, but I feel released from all the blame I received for the problems in our marriage. I am the one who is now truly free. Thank you Natalie, thank you BR
Wiser- Excellent post to Rebecca! The thing is if someone asks for help yet isn’t listening to anything anyone has to say, isn’t lifting a finget to google therapists or suicide hotlines but can lift a finger to post here while not listening to anybody, then, yes, that person is choosing to stay in that awful place.
Willpower isn’t going to save somebody and I believe in prayer but prayer is only as effective as a person’s “yes” & cooperation. You rightly stated that we can’t jump into the river & save her.
I do hope she lifts her finger to contact professional help.
Rosie
I cringed reading your post, “not listening” – “choosing to stay?” That seems rather judgmental, damning and unfair, if I may be so bold. Any kind of counselling is a long, drawn out process; we are talking years here. It may be that this person sees/has no quick solutions; she may be totally and utterly alone, juggling everyone’s needs and trying to tend to her own as well. Please, I urge you, if you see someone drowning, don’t stand back, arms crossed saying “tsk, tsk” throw them a float or better yet, call the coast guard – something!
@ WO
The comment was aimed at me and I’ve replied, don’t know if it’ll be shown or no. Thank you so much for saying this.
WO–It is you who is being judgmental. You’re assuming a lot. I have posted a few things about my journey but not everything nor do I feel comfortable doing so at this time. I’ve read your other posts in the latest thread and all of them have been criticisms of posters. Why are you here? To correct us or to seek healing for yourself?
Yes, I know that therapy is along process, been there, not done yet.
It’s obvious that I’m not the right person to be posting to Rebecca and I’m fine with that. Maybe she will listen to somebody here, I don’t know.
I apologize to you, too, WO. I read and posted to you before my first cup of coffee in the morning and, thus, read your posts with a half-functioning brain. Re-reading your posts, they weren’t all criticisms, just comments. Again, sorry.
@Rosie
I am very grateful to Wiser’s post too. In fact this morning I copy-pasted and saved it. What you wrote has been immensely hurtful.
As I said, I have been in this situation for over 2 years now. I wish there was a way to describe convincingly to other people what it feels like to wake up and fall asleep and try to get through the day in the middle, feeling like this for 2 years but if I could, you and others wouldn’t have ever thought to say what you did to begin with.
I have sought out counselling twice these past two years, both didn’t work out. I couldn’t connect with one and the second was only a university counseller of limited support. I prayed everyday for a full year, as in actually on my knees, pleading to feel better. I was also on anti depressants, which did not work for me. I then was told to try homeopathy, same result. I read almost all Natalies blog posts, and own her book and the online pdf of the other book.
For the past two years, I studied for and did very well on a difficult degree (my text books are covered in tear stains and many times I was unable to continue working, had to almost force myself to go into some kind of denial as a “Trick” to get work done. I also worked full time. I went out as much as I was able even though whatever it is thats going on with me keeps me very isolated and I have no friends.
I have indeed been ringing and speaking to suicide hotlines for months, at my worst.
I attended many hours of local sessions on low mood. I even went to the CoDa meeting after reading about them last month on Natalie’s blog.
Maybe you would agree it is fair to say I have tried as much as I can. I feel suicidal because nothing has worked, and the feeling is as bad as it ever was. I do not contact this person myself, or hardly ever have initiated contact personally.
I have found myself to be able to convince myself, using all the pep talk I can find, to get back on the saddle, and yet I find myself in the same position no matter what changes I make, and I have tried whatever I could think of, as you can see. Forgive me for feeling desperate now. I’m just very tired of failing at what I assure you I desire more than anything, I dont know how to put it more clearly: forgetting, moving on, recovering, seeing differently, finding happiness.
I am too terrified this time to even try to get back in the game of trying to get better once more because I tell you, I don’t think I could face one more realization that its not working yet again.
I have also been in contact with a therapist who I have asked to take me on as a patient. In order to make this commitment, I will have to give up the career I have been trying to establish myself in, so its a bigger risk and hence a more painful decision for me than the outside world knows, who actually cannot mostly see why I am too “lazy and spoilt” to quit working.
I posted here, for maybe the first time, because I desperately wanted to hear whether I was crazy or not or if the situation was rare or common or if I was mistaken about what had happened. I am truly grateful to many of the people who read what I wrote and tried to help me.
If you cannot understand my despair, I’m glad for your sake, but this is a judgement you’ve passed on a situation you don’t fully understand and which is intensely painful for another human being.
Rebecca,
My heart goes out to you and I understand your despair. I know what it feels like to try and get through the day. I’ve also struggled to get up in the morning, to eat and to sleep. My encounter with the exAC/MM left me completely devastated and I felt depressed for a very long time. Some days I still go back there and if I’m truly honest I still have a long, long way to go because sometimes the memory of it all still renders me completely numb and I can’t do anything. I hate to admit this, but when I think about my lost baby I still sometimes want to reach out to him for validation, but I WILL NEVER do this because now I know too much (thanks to Natalie and wonderful ladies/gents here. It has now been over 3 years since the start of that “relationship” and I cannot even begin to think of going out again and the thought of dating sends shivers down my spine. I am, however, getting past it, but it is a slow process. I found a wonderful therapist, but it took me a while before I found the right one. For a long while I couldn’t get past the loss of my precious baby boy or the ACs cruel treatment of us, but she was (is) a very patient therapist. She shared this analogy with me and I would like to share it with you:
A person is stuck in a hole with only a shovel for a tool. The person knows how to shovel and it is an easy, comfortable thing to do. However, if the person shovels it makes the problem worse; the hole gets deeper. One day, someone comes along and throws down a ladder. But the only thing the person knows how to do is shovel. Shoveling feels comfortable, but now there is another choice. Not only that— there is a problem with the ladder. The ladder is scalding hot. So, climbing up will be painful and difficult, and shoveling will be comfortable and easy. However, choosing the ladder will get the person out of the hole.
I don’t know what the answer to your pain is Rebecca, and I wish I could help, but for me it came down to a choice and I’m choosing, no matter how much pain I’m still in, to get me back. I think you are also choosing to get out of the hole that’s why you’re here. Please don’t give up. He’s not worth it, but you are.
@Lilly
You’re the second person who has told me about her losing a baby or being abandoned while pregnant…I’ve been remembering this and I cannot imagine the pain of that situation.
It makes me think..I think I personally didnt really “click” with that guy despite “getting” each other…:) saying that alone makes me miserable because everything HE is is far superior to anything I am and I really believe that…but I think some women here did click with the AC and EU’s and were even with them long term…so I can imagine how hard it must have been for THEM to forget, to lose a buddy as well as a lover.
But I think a personal hell is suited to that person’s own idea of it…to me, its WORSE that I didnt click with him (while still falling for him), I dont understand how it feels so bad but it does..and knowing this GF is part of that universe which I can never be,and he knows that too.
Anyway. He hasnt “communicated” for over 7 weeks now, the longest he’s ever gone, and I dont do it myself. He’s long gone, but these feelings have me pinned to the floor…literally feel my stomach heaving and shoulders are as though there is a lead tonnage weighing on them. If it was only months or even ONE year..but going on 3? I’m only human.
I feel SO ANGRY at everyone who said “you’ll move on in another few months, it takes time, time is the great healer”. It NEVER Happened for me and as I wrote, I WAS trying SO hard, kept at it and at it. If anything, its worse now, with these new images to add to the already devastating picture show in my head
Rebecca,
I don’t know if this will help, and I’m not a professional, but right now it appears that you are overwhelmed by your emotions, feelings of unworthiness, misery, hopelessness, anger, and fear. It seems that your emotions are currently running you, and I’ve been there. It was only when I started to tune in and explore what was underneath them that I started to feel better. For example, you say that “everything HE is is far superior to anything I am and I really believe that”. This clearly shows that you have deep feelings of inferiority and unworthiness (me too). Your relationship with him triggered this belief you have about yourself. Maybe the next step would be to explore why you have this belief, where it came from and what you can do to change it. Try to find another therapist to help you. Don’t give up, good ones are out there. You could then try to work through all these different emotions, they all lead somewhere and if you really tune in to them you will see that they come and go. It might only be for a short while (even a few seconds), but they do subside. It’s where we choose to focus our attention. For me, it was a powerful moment when I discovered that I could control my emotions, including really feeling them and then letting them go. If you try (with professional help) they will lose their power to control you. Rebecca, only you can help yourself, have faith that there is a way out. It may take you a long time, but you and me and all of us trying to get past bad relationships won’t be stuck with sadness forever.
Ey up rebecca
I’m keen not to enter into either side of the argument (totally fence-sitting on it) but I’ve been thinking about this over the last few days and I think I’ve pinpointed what it is that I want to say.
I firmly believe that you can’t help what you feel – I completely agree with you there. You were treated badly and had your heart broken and that HURTS – it’s incredibly painful! And he was horrible and treated you as though you were inadequate, that’s awful and no amount of mulling it over is going to make you feel better about it.
One of the reasons that I didn’t post all of the details of my story before is that it still makes me feel sad. There isn’t a ‘nice’ angle to what happened. It was just all horrid and no amount of rehashing it will suddenly turn the whole thing into a pleasant memory.
So not very surprising that if you’re sitting there trying to force yourself to feel nice about the whole thing, and find an angle to it that makes you feel accepted or attractive then you’ll just feel worse. The aim isn’t to spin it into a pleasant event – you can’t, because it wasn’t one. The aim is to stop thinking about it, although obviously that’s not the work of a day.
What I think you’re saying – and where I believe that you’re making a mistake – is to say “I can’t help what I feel about this (true) and I can’t help what I believe about the rest of my life on the back of it either”. This is false – yes you can help and change what you believe about it. You can help whether or not you believe that he is the be-all-and-end-all to all men. He isn’t. You can choose whether to believe that his gf is the luckiest person alive and destined for the happiest life – she isn’t. You can choose whether or not you believe that your whole life is now rubbish and over because of this dude – it isn’t. And you can choose what you believe about yourself on the back of this.
That’s where, I think, people perceive that you aren’t putting in the effort and feel frustrated. And I’d bear in mind that the philosophy you’re applying to yourself is pretty awful for most of the people who read – I mean, if you’re never going to be happy again and are inherently awful because one good-looking man rejected you then where does that leave me? A good-looking man tried to kill himself when faced with the prospect of having a baby with me, so I may as well jump offa a cliff!
Obviously, that’s an exaggeration and it’s daft, but if you think that he’s worth more than you because he’s rich/good-looking/charming (although horrible and nasty) then your values are screwy and people will react to them. It’s not a very nice thing to believe – whether about yourself or anyone else.
I know that the straight-talking is sometimes hard to read (I had to be straight-talked from here to Christmas on here before I got better, and at times it felt horrible) and fwiw (sorry Rosie) I agree with WO on this one. But I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that none of us know how you feel, either – the reason most of us are here is precisely because we DO.
Another massive screed! Before I go though, I also had various career-based reasons for not wanting to get therapy and my doctor recommended a CRB website called MoodGym (google it) – that helped a fair bit so I’d have a go at it.
Whether it comes across or not, I really do feel ever so sympathetic to you, because it’s a horrible place to be in – I was there for two years. But, in the end, what we’ve all learnt on here is that the only person who can drag you out of this is YOURSELF and the odds are we’ll keep on bugging you to do it.
Lots of hugs xxxxxx
CBT, not CRB – that’s what we call the criminal background checks in the UK! Duh…
It is clear that I’m not he right person to be posting to you and I’m sorry.
This was meant for Rebecca. I’m sorry for my insensitivity.
Thank you, I know it does sound exceptionally shallow of me, not to mention immature and selfish. Someone I used to speak to about it even told me , to hear you talk about it, it sounds as though you are a completely uneducated person. I totally see where that comes from, and I think I would have been frustrated to hear someone else talk like that too. Thsts not to say I don’t appreciate an honest take on my dillema, I really really do.
I’ve been feeling so odd since I posted here a few days ago…I thought people would have similar struggles but apparently no one or hardly anyone is in as bad a mental stuck situation: literally having people hammer it at me what they think reality is and me (and its not as though I am from another planet or have no brain) just NOT taking ANY of it in. I was even wondering and asking myself “do you think ALL these people are wrong about him and you, that each and every single person who has heard you is utterly wrong, that you can’t accept this”, and I actually found myself replying “yeah, I might be telling the story wrong or they might not have met him, because if they did they would believe him and not me, hands down, and totally understand why he did what he did.”
I know its a question of not letting my brain think whatever it wants without control, but so far (and like I said I have really, REALLY been trying) I can’t do this, point blank. And frankly, I don’t see how its even possible to stop believing things you’ve been believing since you were so small. If you have a bad temper, can you really find a way to switch it off for good…if you can’t think well of yourself, can you ever really learn how to. I know everyone says you can, but I don’t know how or I dont know, maybe its just Not possible
Rebecca, I promise you that I do get it – as I’ve said, I felt that way for years and years and years (not just about son’s dad, but about every man that I met). And then there was a peculiar set of circumstances with my son’s dad – long story short, after I had the baby he met The Love Of His Life and has slowly changed into a nice bloke (which goes against all the received wisdom on here, btw. I try not to take it personally, though, a serious suicide attempt’ll do that to a person, I suppose).
I dunno as to the changing yourself – I think that you can, because if you can’t then a lot of us on here are just delusional and the human race may as well Give Up Now. Also I think that a lot of it is just habit and habits CAN be changed – ask any ex-smoker. It might be a struggle and you might have setbacks and days where you can’t see the point and times when you just want to give up, but you can do it.
I think that there are exercises and things that will help you to recognise, isolate and get rid of the bad thought patterns, but I’m only an armchair psychologist so I don’t really know what they are! If you can’t get therapy then I really would have a go at MoodGym, though – that has some things on there that help.
I should also add that I did hit a point back in 2011 where I said “Right, clearly I’m just an awful person who is so appalling and dreadful that I will never be loved by anyone again. So I may as well be an awful person with nice nails who can cook”. And I started doing nice things that I enjoyed anyway, because why not? And that kept me busy and happy and started to make me feel better about myself, in a roundabout sort of a way.
Say that what you’re saying is true (I don’t think it is, ftr, but you’re entitled to your opinion) then you still may as well do nice things that you’re good at and that you enjoy. Even the Most Terrible And Annoying Person In The World (which some days I still firmly believe is me) still deserves the odd treat.
Hugs again xx
Rebecca- So much for not posting to you again but this is not advice giving, I promise! This is only to say that no, shallowness, or loss of intelligence, etc, didn’t even enter my mind. In fact, I respect you very much that you earned your degree while in this terrible state. Congratulations! It was a hard fight and you did it! 🙂
Rebecca,
So, let me understand this. If someone has a bad temper and they cannot eliminate it completely and become perfect, then they might as well just live in rage and give up, rather than have a decent life with an occasional outburst? This reminds me of my step dad who is an alcoholic. When he talks about his drinking he says….”I’m going to die someday anyway, might as well die from drinking.” What a convenient reason to sit and do nothing but live in misery. If you came here looking for encouragement to do nothing but hold on to the precious pain, you were wrong. We’ve know pain too, your’s isn’t so beyond ours that we just can’t possibly understand. Pain isn’t that special Rebecca. Start by no longer telling your self it’s impossible to find your way out. If you can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel, don’t just sit and feel sorry for yourself. Start moving……get up and crawl if you have to. The light won’t just find it’s way to you. There is no shortcut. Find a therapist to help you. This will involve you making an effort, even if you don’t feel like it an taking an interest in helping yourself. We are not saying it’s easy, we’re saying it’s possible. Please get some help. The is light, we are’t making it up. Our knees are dirty from our own crawling…so we get it.
Sorry if that sounds mean, I’m not trying to be. We view you as a newly abandoned lost little kitten and we want to scoop you up and take care of you…..but we can’t. We can only try to with our words. Even a Momma cat gives here lil ones a lil paw tap to get their attention. We are in your corner.
@selkie
None of you sounds mean. On the contrary I’ve never had so much concern shown for the way I’m thinking before. Anyone I spoke to has been sympathetic but simultaneously and especially after two or three talks, just fed up with me, which I get.
But like I said over and over, I just WASN’T getting any better, and I’m scared beyond words that this is going to go on. I just can’t seem to forget any of it, or move on one iota, and its like living in limbo/hell. This statement about pain not being special is so confusing because obviously I’m having a despicable time inside my own head and probably ruining my life this way, which I’m watching helplessly (after almost two years of trying and not getting anywhere yes I use that word), I DONT want ANYTHING to do with this pain, EVER.
The therapist I’ve contacted and who is for circumstances I dont need to go into (financial and work related) the one I can see regularly, is going to mean quitting a huge dream I’ve had for years and year of settling where I am based now, and returning also to my hometown and also family home, which makes me feel like twice the failure to be honest 🙁 I am just making this thing a priority but its going to involve giving up plans I had…although I guess in my state I wuld not have done them any kind of justice anyway. But I wanted to show anyone here whose been reading, I AM serious about getting the hell out of this, and its costing me, but I have to admit, I’m very very pessimistic after all this time. Who on EARTH doesnt recover after 2 years of being dumped??? 🙁
I am finding it really impossible to believe I can change the way I think about everything!! 🙁 I’ve been UNABLE to do it…will there ever ever be a time I will feel as peaceful and contented as I did, as a human being, before all this happened? Will the image of everything he said and did EVER be just a memory and not what it is.
Rebecca,
Have you tried going to any women’s support groups in your area? If you feel like you’re really stuck in this and that nothing so far has worked…..look back and see what you’ve tried….really actively tried to do to get past this. If what you’ve done isn’t working, then try different things….like learning meditation or taking up a yoga class (this saved me), or maybe joining a women’s church group. I had to start doing things that were just about me and out of my regular pattern to break the cycle, things that were positive and challenging but also gave me a temporary mental vacation. I had to force myself at first, but over time I had developed new patterns in my life that had nothing to do with the ex or the pain. These became my refuge. I also watched a ton of funny movies, sometimes three a night, any thing to give myself a break from the negative thinking and pain, even if it was for five minutes. Many nights I would wake up around 2 in the morning and my mind would start its dwelling crap again. After several hours, and days of this pattern of lying awake and crying or just feeling sick to my stomach and hollow, I started bringing my laptop to bed and if I woke up, I immediately started playing my favorite funny DVD. ( For me it was Mrs. Doubtfire or Meet the Parents ) to distract myself from myself basically. I looked up funny cats/animal videos on you tube and laughed out loud. This may all sound silly, but IT WORKED. It was like I wouldn’t give my pain a chance to take over anymore. It was a mini war going on inside me but I decided I wanted my life back. The yoga especially helped release endorphins and was very calming for my brain. It all seems very daunting to change, but one baby step at at time adds up. These things alone are not the magic cure, but it’s a start. The women’s support groups may have resources you aren’t aware of in your area if you don’t want to relocate to find a therapist. Don’t give up, okay. Life can and will be good again, it may be up and over the mountain but it’s reachable.
Rebecca,
If you haven’t recovered from being dumped for two years, that doesn’t mean you are a terrible failure, it means that something else very deep and unconscious is going on with you. Like I wrote before, I don’t believe it’s really about this guy, he just triggered it and now he is the object of all these projections.
I’ve gotten a great deal of help, not only from therapy, but from self-compassion techniques. These are about how you love and care for yourself when things aren’t going well. I would recommend you check out http://www.self-compassion.org and watch her videos. You are in great need of forgiving yourself and caring for yourself.
As I said before, I think you are stuck in a vicious negative thinking cycle that logic and reason can’t penetrate. Please try to have some belief and faith that therapy WILL help with this.
Rebecca,
You may have to go through several more counselors before you find the right fit. This most certainly applies to anti-depressants, so please don’t give up after one try.- My mother was not functioning after the loss of my brother, but when she found the right meds she was able to handle things much better.
Personally, I don’t feel any of us are qualified to help lift you out of this – I am not suggesting that you not post – but you are obsessed with a man that you dated for 5 weeks, and considered ending your life over someone who did not treat you well.
I’m curious, did he take you out and introduce you to family and friends during this period?
@Allison
The five weeks was the part when he was chasing me: I had actually known him from a distance for months before that, and then if you recall, I said after the 5 weeks and that horrible intimacy session which went totally wrong ended, he got the hell out of there BUT didn’t officially dump me, it was long distance for another 6 months.
Meaning every two weeks he would text (put me on skype once for another “intimacy session”, again went all wrong) and then re-ignore me.
During that period, he put ME on a pedestal, and he wasn’t kidding. I actually was not very comfortable and not sure I could sustain his pace, also of course I was convinced it was only a matter of time before he found out what a weakling/loser I was/am (he was already able to see I couldnt really keep up with him socially). But during that time, it was like I couldnt put a toe wrong, and he did want me to meet the important people in his life(he spoke of marrying me) and wanted to meet my parents…maybe he knew I wouldnt agree and he knew it was safe to ask..or he really meant it..I dont know. He was very open about being focused on me on social media though. Saying things for all the world to see.
During that period, I was fucntioning better than I ever had in ages. Maybe thats what tortures me about that time the most, like someone with a extreme deathly thirst remembering the time when they were living next to a fountain.
And I’m so worried I will NEVER have that peace and happiness inside me again, I’ve been trying and trying these past two years.
He was the most romantic, ardent pursuer during that time, said and did things like out of a movie, and it wasn’t an act, he really really wanted to “have” me. Sometimes I think he was almost resentful for being in MY power, which is why he was so glad for the bubble he was in to have “popped” that terrible evening which I still dont understand, when the tables utterly reversed in one second, and was so glad to no longer as I said be in my “power”. He was glad, relieved, felt confident and arrogant towards me for the first time…while I degenerated into this thing, crawling at his feet.
Rebecca,
Many on the site have been on the same road – your story is very similar to mine.
I met the ex through a mutual friend. I wanted to keep it platonic, as he was not my type and wasn’t I attracted to him. He pursued me like crazy – these guys love the chase, it has noting to do with us – and after about 2 months, he wore me down, and we started dating. Within two weeks of dating, he was telling me he was in love with me and talking of a future – sound familiar – he pursued and pursued. About 3.5 months had passed, and I finally felt that I had mutual feelings for this man. I think you can guess what happened, HE BAILED!!!!!! He made every excuse in the book as to why we could have a future- this was not my fault, but the fact that he had caught me, he was no longer interested – there were red flags with this fool that I choose to ignore: One of the biggest, is that this dude was in love with a woman he did not know. Healthy relationships take time to grow, it is not like it is in the movies. I might add, I only met his circle of friends, three weeks before we split – supposedly, he was telling everyone about me. That’s what he said. Just like the social media thing.
After he split up, he was back three months later, with a bunch of ambiguity and excuses. this was the most demoralizing period of my life, and I cannot believe I allowed so much nonsense. he knew how I felt, but did not give a damn, as it was about his ego – this is why he keeps popping back – and some sex. Big USER!
Rebecca, we both were used. These guys had no intention of having a future with us. Please understand this. I think it is also hard for us to deal with the real truth (allowing this type of behavior, being attracted to this type and not seeing who they are). Believe it or not, it is easier to stay in the fantasy and believe it was our fault, but that would get you nowhere. it is time for you to get to the root of you problems, so that you can move forward and learn how to have a healthy relationship.
Tinkerbell,
You are never mean; tough sometimes, but also very wise and very kind. I once received a collective kick up the butt from the wise posters here and thank God I did! It prevented me from doing something stupid and I was so grateful. Keep giving your advice, I take notice of every single thing you write. Many times your comments to me and to others have prevented me from slipping back into fantasy land.Priceless. If ever I’m tempted to slip please do not hesitate to remind me of reality. Hugs, xx.
Thank you so much, Lilly. It means alot to me.
Bravo. Another great article.
Rebecca.
I disagree that if you think badly about yourself it’s not possible to learn how to stop doing this.
I, & many others here at BR are living proof that is not so.
Please read my posts above & decide what you to do.
You have 2 choices.
1. Doggedly hold onto your old (current) way of thinking which btw is in fact not dissimilar to how many of us used to once think & feel so without putting too fine a point on it, regarding that you are NOT unique. If you continue with this choice you’re situation will worsen. That is deeply troubling given the state of yr mental.health.
2. Become honest, openminded & willing to change. With these three principles at the forefront of your mind it is indeed possible to heal yourself & move on from this person.
You are not a ‘bad person’ for experiencing these difficulties. You are just psychologically in the grip of something much greater than you.
I would suggest you google ‘Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous’ & complete their questionaire to ascertain if you qualify for their program. Their self help groups are 12 step based & free to attend. I attended them myself for a love addiction issue many years ago to one person. What I learned there was most helpful & has.stayed with me all these years. I suspect you may be suffering love addiction.
I re-iterate to wise advice of others also which is to strongly encourage you to also seek professional counselling.
There is an old saying, a bit crass, but whichI think applies. It is this. The time has come for you to ‘sh*t or get off the toilet seat.’
You are not alone.
I wish you well. T 🙂
Peanut I totally ‘get’ your story. We have a lot in common. It helps knowing I’m not the only one treated worse that a family dog for the duration of my childhood. I often describe my exp as being ‘practically born into the gutter’ (although technicallly I was 3 & 1/2 when I landed there). I marvel at how people like us survive & are so furtunate to escape the sad fate which befell your brother. You are inspiring. Power to you. T 🙂
Rebecca
I think everyone on this site who has been writing is deeply concerned about you and wants to help. Many of us have been in mind-numbing pain periods where we were half crazed by how tormented we felt and how hopeless things seemed to be- how we felt we would NEVER feel differently about things…
I am coming out of a long term marriage where I experienced a lot of pain. It is still really unbearable on some days and I know I sometimes sound like a broken record and I repeat the same things ..but there other days when I make progress. Every day I try to take a little step in my understanding and in moving forward to another life. There ARE other lives out there Rebecca – you probably cannot see it now but lots of people on this site can tell you that they are thinking and living in a different way than they once were.
I think what I find difficult is your complete adulation/admiration of this man and his girlfriend. You have a certain view of him as being a golden man who everyone admires, who is successful, who everybody wants (all women certainly) and who can have anything and everybody he wants..who is universally loved etc and with a girlfriend who everybody envies etc. None of us know this man but I can definitely say that there is NO ONE on earth like this. It is just not possible. Your view is distorted about him and her. I know that you want to believe that YOUR view is the real one but is there a way you could accept, just a little, that you “could” be a bit wrong about him? That might be a way of your acknowledging to yourself that he has treated you badly, selfishly and without compassion. Rebecca, why aren’t you angry and indignant? Just a little?
@espresso
Sorry about the marriage..like I said in another post, that was a level of commitment I never reached so I have no idea what its ending must feel like for you 🙁
About the anger (i’ll get to the idolizing bit)..its really odd to me too. I don’t feel anything but confusion about his actions, as if I had no right to be angry about anything. The only thing that makes me angry Now is after this second round where he has been picking me up and tossing me aside while attached, it just made me see how committed he is to HER which shows they must click on major levels…in that case, if he had that, WHY talk to me at ALL, KNOWING he is committed to someone else. I mean its perfectly obvious he wasn’t serious, meaning I was always seen as a toy. He denies this flat out, saying he DID mean to leave her at the time (and while I was still aloof-ish during those 5 weeks he genuinely was very keen to make me his), so I almost believe it WAS fair..he was just testing to see if I would be a good partner to commit to and its not his fault it didn’t work out.
Then, I even feel confused and no angry at him messaging and wanting to meet as friends. He’s a very very “social” person, he even told me when I would ask why do you even want to meet me now: “you have no idea how open I am” and “I thought I could have a decent conversation with you”.
When I got mad after he gave my number to his gf and told him look you Are leading me on by texting and meeting KNOWING how I feel, he just goes “nothing I wouldn’t do for anyone else”. So I don’t even feel I have any right to be angry, when technically he’s justified.
The pedestal thing…I wish I could explain. You cant help feeling, I guess, when someone has become such a fixture in your brain and mind…he HAS to be extraordinary to be getting all this from me, I mean, can you see any other guy getting what he gets.
The last time I met him, two months ago, he was sitting to my right and I cant forget that agonizing feeling pressing down on me of being so close to someone who held the key to your happiness and him feeling Nothing…and everything about him from how he spoke to how he looked was a dagger in my heart.
Noquay
I am glad that some karma seems to be happening for your ex…he has left a sad legacy of broken bodies and souls and you have been courageous, steadfast and smart by managing the environment in which he still operates and can sometimes appear. It seems so wrong that somebody should have such a damaging effect on so many people and can get away with it. And sort of emerge “unscathed” ready to continue what he does so well. It really burns me up actually.
In terms of my ex…because of housing, business, financial and other matters it is a slow disconnect. I am financially quite vulnerable and need to try to be cautious about my decisions even though I am systematically making them. We are destined to work on one major project until the end of the year which I can’t end for career and financial reasons for me. I have been focusing on limiting his access, enforcing my boundaries, communicating with detachment and trying to move forward myself. I am not always successful and I get sucked in sometimes. It IS stressful and is not the best solution. I don’t always handle it well…like I get tripped up engaging with him when I do not want to. I may have to revisit it if I can’t manage it better emotionally than I have been. I set a formal tone but he keeps coming back in a more intimate way. In other words he is busting my boundaries in a NEW way. He has never faced up to emotional problems (his OR ours in the past) in a direct, problem solving type way and I think he thinks if he pretends our relationship has not totally ended then perhaps it hasn’t. And believe me I have been SO clear about this…but he keeps pretending he doesn’t hear me….something what went on in the marriage about 80% of the time.
Yep.. If your lucky enough to meet their ex’s you will find out they had the same exact issues, worries and fears, and the same self esteem issues you have, and maybe even similar backgrounds.
I just want to say that I love all you guys. This community is amazing.
Hey ixnay…what’s up with you? Good to hear from you.
I recently discovered your site and it has been a life preserver for me. My verbally and emotionally abusive, drug addict husband recently abandoned me with no job, 4 months after moving me across the country (USA).
Your insights have helped to validate the many feelings and thoughts I’ve had for years. I am no longer in denial and I am re-learning how to love and respect myself. More importantly, I am learning how to enforce my bounderies.
I’ve posted here a long time ago, but i met him in 2010 and this whole madness for me has come to an end as of this year. We split up last jan 2012 and i still had hope he would come back to me and he did last august 2012 and i thought it was all candy and roses but he lied to me and revealed that he just wanted a casual relationship and so it fell apart within two weeks as i wouldn’t accept it and a lot of me wanted to…i missed the sex with him. So we saw each other sometimes (he made promises) (no sex on my part)and i always carried some hope. So a few weeks ago i found out about this arranged engagement to an overseas woman by his parents. and i told him that i had loved him and everything else. He told me he appreciated my feelings but that he doesnt love me or doesnt love her but is doing this to make his family happy. He told me this on Facebook and there i was sitting there with the laptop talking to him whilst crying and crying… but for me it helped that i didnt have sex with him since about jan last year. I went crazy and felt very suicidal and felt huge pain but kept to myself with the support of my sisters and friend. I did not send him any messages or anything from jan- till when he contacted me in august (still in a relationship with another girl mind you but i still wanted him !!) I was always tied to the chemistry and the fact that i would never feel the way i did. I did join a dating site last month and decided to give it a go. I have learned a huge lesson. With the ex we had sex on the second date. I have been on 5 dates, but 3 alone dates with this new guy. I’ve maintained boundaries. I did kiss him to suss out the chemistry and it feels promising. So I guess i have to see for now. There are better men out there. The ex was a cheap skate who never took me out and paid for things and upon going on this first date. I said to myself that if he didnt pay for dinner and coffee, he would be crossed off my list. it seems like a minor thing but for me, it was important. So he did pay and on the other dates that followed. He does live about an hour away but i won’t be travelling that far to see him and it’s all up to him to come see me but i’m still keeping my options open. I’ve still got a lot to fix within myself but i choose not to let other people treat me as second best as the ex did. In which he tried to come back to me when his relationship ended. I’m also going to say next, next, next and flush to any man who is not a gentleman and is disrespectful and i will not be chasing any man as i once did. I did always feel there was something about me that caused him to mistreat me and be emotionally abusive towards me. All i did was be there for him and be caring, kind and all the good stuff but i realised that , that’s how he is as a person and it’s got nothing to do with me as a person.. Even the love i felt for him is probably all skewed. Anyway, i have felt a lot of shame, but getting away from it all and going out with a man in a safe, comfortable and drama free outing has been a huge blessing. I understand each and every one of your pain. I’ve gone from depressed and suicidal and not being able to eat and work but it gets better. i know that i did the best i could through knowing him. i treated him amazingly well and everything else. I feel my karma is good. I don’t know about his karma as its not my problem. But i choose to live in a peaceful and positive way and surround myself with good people.
Insightful article, hits home and I got emotional reading it and had to gather my strength even to comment.
I’m in a foreign country, myself and child blocked from leaving the country, the only way a monster ex husband ensures he still has power over me. It kills my soul, it makes me so angry.
This is a man who abused me. I couldn’t have friends, checked my phone and emails, asked for proofs of tickets and receipts when I went to places by myself, inspected my vagina to check if i”ve had sec with other men, called me useless cunt and taunted and laughed at me when pregnant and the list go on. And I still thought I could save the marriage.
He pushed me off the bed when I was in my second trimester, he hit me when I was giving birth and made me apologise for it. He chocked me 4 weeks after birth, I hadn’t even recovered from my caesarian section. Left me on my own at the hospital few hours after birth, and threatened to leave me every time I asked hm to “please stay with me and the baby”. I don’t have a family here, I had to rely on volunteers who for 6 weeks twice a week to help with house work.
This relationship has beaten up and defeated the person I thought I was. Who treats a person who loves them like that. The sacrifice I’ve made for this animal.
When he chocked me he had this look on his face and was saying “now I’m chocking you”, repeating it 3 times. Had the same face two more times (at court and police station), when he said he’ll kill me whilst making a gesture with his hands around his neck. Seriously I can’t sometimez help thinking that there must be something about me that attracted this weirdo.
I left with a help of a brave friend who introduced me to BR. Something snapped out of me and I decided I’ll do it for my son, , because the ex had now started directing his weird behavior towards the baby. But by then I’s in a zombie mode. Even now some events are foggy before and after then.
I feel a failure of some sort. Inside me I try to deny it but who mess their life like that. I really want to feel different but my experience after leaving him, how he bullied and bulldozed me In court, finantial abuse, manipulations and psychological torments, I don’t know how I’m still standing here..
Been operating from fear. Noting who’s driving behind me, who’s parked near me, dreams of him stabbing or chasing me with a knife, him chasing me and my darling, waking up to check if I’ve locked my door, pushing the couch against the door. .
.I’m very exhausted, since marriage I feel I’ve never had a break. My precious darling is 4 yrs now, but I still feel like I’ve yet to recover from child birth. I feel like I’m operating on reserve energy to do everything. Deep deeeep down I don’t wanna give up, I refuse to give in for my son, but I sometimes feel I’m in denial in that AC has won destroying me just like others before me.
Sorry for the rant but this article is like my life story
..
Peanut, you are such a strong woman. What a rough journey you have travelled..wow! It is inspiring to know someone can go through what you have gone through, that much… and survive to share and inspire others. I don’t know you but you soud like someone who refuses to let their negative experiences define what they are. Thanks for sharing. Hugs.
@Rebecca,
I’m new here but I would like to throw in my two cents and extend my support to you. It’s a lot of emotional turmoil you are in, as a result of that guys’ selfish ways. It’s unfortunate you feel the same guy that got you in that state, is your solution to happiness. I have been there, when my self esteem was even worse than it is now after I ran from my ex monstrous husband. I hope sharing it in BR and getting the responses would help you to see the AC in a different light, and motivate you to focus on getting professional help for your self.
@AfroK
Thank you for having read my comments when your own life is putting such crazy demands on you. Just as an outsider, I felt how fragile women are as a gender now…we really only seem to want to just love and be loved in returned with no strings attached, and yet what ends up happening is fearing real love, chasing bad love after being tricked into accepting it, and being unable to get even the most basic love from our own selves leave alone anyone else. And maybe I’m being too harsh but a part of me has really begun to feel too many men take advantage of women’s vulnerable state now.
This guy is not even human, he’s quite simply an animal. But you know there’s one way to get your own back, right? Just be happy and normal. That will KILL him. And raise your boy to be a real man who women can lean on, not someone they end up weeping tears of blood over.
You definitely need a restraining order, and I know from experience that your isolation is one of the worst things that can be going on with you. You need to have a strong protective group around you that you know are always there. Isolation magnifies the demonic voices..trust me, I had another “bad” evening today.
In my own personal case I’ve been speaking to a new dr to start therapy etc but its not easy, complications with location and work. Actually I can see its going to get tougher and not easier for me in the coming months.
I have a very different situation to yours: technically speaking, the guy never put a toe wrong. He could and did justify every last thing so that no one would think any the worst of him for, say, going out with a woman while committed or texting late at night (“nothing I wouldnt do with anyone else”)…leaving the only “***ing deluded” one to be me. He even said after taking me out to eat one night “Oh my God, just because someone pays for everything and is nice to you doesn’t mean they are totally into you”.) Apart from being devastated, I felt so humiliated on this whole new level. You just start to believe you ARE the insane, abnormal, pathetic, worthless one.
Like I said Ive had another bad evening and I’m not in a state to give advice to anyone whatsoever, I can only say I read your story and I feel your pain, anger, fear…please don’t ever ever let him even dream of being able to come fifty miles near you or your loved ones ever again. He should be branded like cattle on his forhead so other women can be pre warned and more lives torn apart.
Rebecca,
Thanks for your support. I had a restraining order which has expired. Actually he is an animal, though I feel like we are giving a bad name to animals.
Your AC, though not serial abuser like my ex, sounds like he is playing mind ffing with your feelings. I get what you are saying about him presenting as perfect, with everyone around him viewing him so. That he never put his foot wrong, though it does seem he is just good at covering his tracks, also thanks for his charming. As it unfolds, when he was seeing you, he was cheating on his lucky (not) girlfriend. His comment at dinner is appalling and typically designed to hurt you and put you down so you do feel you are not good enough. He also told you he can’t see you in a relationship with him, but he managed to chase and seduce you into being with him. Classical Assclown. I hope you go past the grieving stage, then through BR and professional support, you do get over that asshole. The poor girlfriend is not that lucky after all. Remember this article, that his mistreatment of you is not evidence of your worth. It says a lot about him and he must be treating his girlfriend the same way until she stumbles into BR.
I stumbled upon this website a few months ago and have been reading without commenting. I think the time has come.
After dating the worlds biggest AC for years I finally moved on to a married man(silly, I know). He had seen me a few years ago but finally met at a function.
He is good looking wealthy and very generous but emotionally stunted. At the time I met him I did not know he was already conducting an illicit affair with a girl who has slept and been dumped by everyman I know and some. She indulges him in threesomes, gets women for his friends and has women she flies in from all over the world (basically a pimp with no morals).
Anyway, he tossed me around for a few months till I said enough and cut off all contact. He tried to contact me (lazilly) but I didnt bother with him. Unfortunately we met up convinced me to have another go. I am a decent woman, in the 2 years since I left my ex, he is the only man I have been intimate with. I must say things happened a little fast between us but he kew about my rep and everyone told him he was lucky I even spoke with him….anyway this man ended up worse then the first time and I have stopped all contact with him. He tried to lazilly contact me and I said hi, bye! I met someone he had dated and she told me how he one day just walked out of her life after a year and a half…..no explanation!!! She is still reeling from it 5 years later, although now married!
He is a narcissist and very insecure….very fragile ego. I do miss him sometimes and I think about him a lot. I also feel I demeaned myself by going with him, he has no regard for anyone! I could have done much better…I am beautiful, good career going kind and giving. he was so rude that he wouldnt even call to say thank you when I sent him a gift!!! No manners…
If noone knew I wouldnt feel bad…my pride is dented. A few pple around us know about the affair…I am def not and have never been in love with him. I cannot understand how he can be with a girl as loose as this….I concluded that he is also of loose morals so he can never appreciate someone like myself.
It still does not stop me from going over all the details with a fine tooth comb…its only been 6 weeks but I am so sick of thinking about him and berating myself for having anything to do with him, not playing hard to get….
My road to recovery will not be too long I hope…
So he has got a wife, an OW, an OOW and an indefinite number of OOOWs. I hope you practised safe sex, and if not please do get yourself the full range of STD checks because you can be sure an AC like that will not give a hoot about your health or fertility, which could be permanently impaired. Please take care of yourself – getting involved with a MM is self harming behaviour anyway (I know, having done it myself) but he sounds toxic on every level. And think of it this way, you look down on the OOW who was pimping for him, but in a way if you had unprotected sex with him youve had it with her and all the others too.
Laila, This sounds a lot like my story. I was involved with a married (perpetually separated) Mr. EUM/assclown for two years too long who engaged in swinger orgies with people I knew and had group sex behind my back then lied about it.
Moral of the story Ive learned that when someone disrespects them self its damn near impossible for them to respect others. If your ex was engaging with a woman like this then he clearly had no boundaries or respect for HIMSELF right off the bat. So why would he have boundaries or respect for you?
Just know that the wisdom and clarity you will gain in a few months after a break up by NC will be the most wonderful gift you couldve ever asked for and if you stick to NC and focus on YOU youll realize this.
Be strong and focus on yourself and things you enjoy doing. volunteer, do yoga, take a cooking class. Do what makes YOU you. And if he contacts you again dont respond. One day when you have moved on to a happy healthy relationship thatll be the greatest F*** you youll be able to give him.
Thanks Oli.
Indeed he has no respect for himself whatsoever….he has little self worth and gets his validation from having adoring friends around him who can never tell him the truth. Such a narcissist he was…
I will take care of myself and get on with life….part of the thrill for him was that many said I would not bother with him….wish I had not but hey, its happened. I just have to ensure I am never in that position again…
Always remember, your NO joke. Don’t let ANYONE “bust” your boundaries:
IF YOU TREAT ME LIKE A JOKE…..
I’LL LEAVE YOU LIKE IT’S FUNNY!