Conflict and criticism (‘c-situations) are something that most people struggle with to some degree and when you’re already judging you about certain things or at the very least attempting to live your life by consensus with people pleasing, criticism can cut through you like a knife and be personalised as a rejection of who you are as a person.
Criticism is in essence an expression of disapproval based on perceived faults or mistakes or it can be about judging the quality of something or someone and so of course while it might be negative, it could actually be positive and point to opportunity for growth.
It’s a form of feedback that depending on a number of factors including the situation, deliverer of the criticism (critic), your respective agendas, fears, motivations etc, may or may not be of use to you and may or may not have the power to knock the wind out of your sails.
Criticism like communication, isn’t all verbal so it can be expressed via action or lack of it too. How faults, mistakes or even the quality of something is perceived is also important to note because it is that person’s perspective which may be influenced by their own agenda or just coming from an entirely different perspective that may not make sense to you.
It’s the value that we put on other people’s perception of things that can lead to problems because if how you feel about you is largely based on external validation then regardless of whether there is merit or not behind that person’s criticism or even the right to judge you, you’re going to be affected by any perceived expression of criticism.
This why some people take a person not reciprocating their interest as a criticism of who they are because they associate it with rejection. It’s the assumption that if someone doesn’t do as they expect, want or need, it’s because they were judged as being inadequate in some way.
Rolling on with that assumption, you can then see how easy it is to feel as if you’re taking bullets left right and centre if the association you make with criticism is that it happens to you each time things don’t go your way. “They’re not doing what I want because they disapprove of me and I’m rejectionable”, when in actual fact people do what chimes with their own agenda and their reasons are very tied up in themselves and their habits.
Rolling on even further with this assumption, it’s also easy to see how you can end up with the belief that if a person expresses any form of criticism, even if it’s actually respectful feedback, that they don’t like or love you. This is simply not true.
Even if verbalising your disapproval isn’t your strength due to being more focused on being a people pleaser, that doesn’t mean that you haven’t and aren’t expressing any disapproval in your life, even if it’s with your actions or expectations.
Think of all of the times when you’ve felt unhappy in a situation or within a relationship.
Think of the times when you had a different agenda to someone else.
Think of the difference in values between you and someone who you struggled to make it work with.
Think of when you expected, willed, waited, hoped, begged, cajoled, pleaded and even demanded that somebody changed.
Think of when you were more in love with the memory of who someone was or the initial illusions you had about them than you were with the actual person in front of you.
Think of when you’ve tried to express that you didn’t like something.
Think of when you’ve had an argument.
Think of the fact that whether you’ll admit it or not, you know that each person in your life isn’t perfect.
Does this mean that you didn’t / don’t like or love any of these people?
If you believe that criticism means that you’re not loved, liked or approved of then you’re also saying that when you don’t like something, that you don’t like, love, or approve of that person either. If you’ve been insisting on how much you’ve loved somebody and even how you can’t get over them but at the same time, like any person who is in this situation, there are issues, this runs counter to what you believe.
This idea that any and all criticism is bad and that if you’re criticised or perceive you to be that you’re unloved, disliked or disapproved of is an inadvertent way of saying that you don’t have the right to be human.
You can’t like everything and everyone. You can’t. You are allowed to query things, to give (respectful) feedback and to also pick and choose what you do or don’t want to pay too much attention to. That’s your right.
I’ve become a lot more grown up about criticism in recent years (it used to reduce me to being a sullen, disapproved of teenager who didn’t believe that she could get anything right and judged all criticism as ‘permanent’) and because I know that I love and respect various people in my life even when they’re not perfect and don’t do as I expect or like, I’ve had to let that flow back to me instead of holding me to a different standard and freaking out. It’s too much to expect that you can spend weeks, months and years interacting with a person and that every last move is going to be ‘approved’ of.
Criticism isn’t the same as rejection and actually, while it can be an expression of disapproval, at the heart of it is feedback which you can take or leave, plus it may actually be feedback that relates more to the critic than it does to you especially if there’s boundary issues. The criticism might be founded (which is useful feedback if you’ll see past your nose) but ultimately criticism isn’t going to become the gut wrenching rejection that it can become if you ultimately approve of you first and aren’t reliant on approval. If you accept you then the things that you used to judge you on can’t be used against you by others.
Your thoughts?
If you struggle with criticism, check out this post with tips for dealing with conflict and criticism.
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Growing up I received a lot of criticism and a lot of negative behavior thrust my way because I was there, therefore it became very difficult to tell criticism and abuse apart. As an adult when I’d receive criticism I’d think it was abuse and when I’d be abused I’d deny it. Certainly a weird kooky way to live.
Criticism speeds up self discovery. If people are willing to give me criticism I am willing to listen. It’s hard to see ourselves from the outside and self discovery is necessary to heal from a shady past and have a life with some joy in it.
“It’s hard to see ourselves from the outside and self discovery is necessary to heal from a shady past and have a life with some joy in it.”
well said peanut 🙂 with an attitude like that no doubt you have a bright sparkling future ahead of you xx
Agreed, criticism is not rejection. BUT criticism can be used passive-aggressively by a chopper as a means of control.
You got that right Laura. I think I’m finally figuring out the ‘choppers’ tactics. I have a new male coworker who is classic of all the things Nat writes about and I see him doing it in a work setting. He likes to chop certain members of our team down to make himself look better and he started with me since I’m senior, work harder and know more than him. He tries to use his perception of things to chop us down behind our back, such as saying my people skills are lacking when I am the one of the most well liked and respected in our entire office and I have the performance evaluation to prove it. Anyway due to BR, I figured out his tactics early and have refused to allow him to tear down others. I’ve watched him try to control different ones by cozying up to the females and buddying up to the guys, its like he knows how to work it. Sickening, I’m tired of it since it affects my job and my relationship with my sales partner. Other people are starting to figure him out and its a huge help to me. I have dubbed him ‘flowers in the attic’ crazy, and have refused to allow him to talk bad about anybody to me even if its true, I dont allow him to shut an office door so he can talk about others to me and I have completely quit talking about anything personal in his presence because I’ve noticed he uses it
Kudos for figuring him out, SM! Unfortunately, such birds are a very common phenomenon.
Oh my,this one hit really close to home :
“Think of when you were more in love with the memory of who someone was or the initial illusions you had about them than you were with the actual person in front of you.”
Yes, after this person showed his true colors it was/would never be the same…
Flushed & wish I would have done it sooner..
“Criticism isn’t the same as rejection.”
Not for relatively normal people. It is for a narcissist or borderline type.
Well put Debz..And very true.
Actually, criticism is even worse than rejection for narcissists and borderlines; they equate criticism with annihilation, they think you are trying to destroy them and can then can launch a “counter attack” to “destroy” you before you “destroy” them.
Criticism is good in the sense that it makes you look at yourself and essentially how you and your actions are perceived. I think most of us here have that desire to be the best version of ourselves, and just being here and reading Nats wisdom and interacting with eachother gives us the opportunity to grow and to do that. Alot of people in the world are content to not look at themselves and wonder what everyone elses problem is…it takes effort to see the self, even more to truly love and accept you for you. I have found that the more accepting you can be of yourself the more it feeds on itself and flows on to others. The more compassion and understanding you can give to you, it then multiplies tenfold to others.
Recently I had a break through of sorts, after not continuing to date a man I felt I was getting fast forwarded by. I ran into him a couple of days ago and he was only too happy to tell me how wonderful his life is, he is dating one of my work colleagues (I did already know this) and how everything is going right for him. The old me would have been plunged into self doubt, wondering what I had missed out on, chiding myself over all of my grand mistakes and how I will be alone forever (Which I incidentally may be of course…but you know what even that doesnt scare me anymore!)
It was liberating to hear myself tell him how happy I was for him, that I wished him all the best, and meant it!! Most liberating of all was the realisation that I am finally starting to trust my own voice, you know, the one that wishes YOU well, the one that wants YOU to win.
I think I am liking being a 30 something woman 🙂
Oh boy ladies, backsliding today. Nothing so much as contact but a lot of yearning. Making strides in my new business venture and wanting to share things with him. He never criticized me, was very supportive of my art and my endeavors. I guess he was really the first one to be supportive and see me the way I wanted to see myself. A fully realized passionate woman. I revealed myself fully to him in a way I never did with anyone and he accepted and encouraged me. Maybe that’s why I’m having such a hard time letting go? This is really frustrating me, I see him so much clearer now but it doesn’t change anything. Still trying to get clear on myself…
Jennifer, it sounds like you know exactly what you need to do — get clear on yourself.
The achievments that you’re making are YOURS. You did this. You own this. You accomplished this. You may not have the self-esteem to admit it, but without him encouraging you (which is a passive, not an active, involvement), you would have achieved this anyway, all by yourself. The capacity for winning is and always has been inside YOU, not someone else who somehow ‘made’ you win. Sorry but you’re just going to have to take ALL the credit for climbing that ladder. And there will be lots of great guys out there whose hearts will be genuinely sparked by this, but not his. Please don’t allocate any credit or look for appreciation for your achievments from men with hearts that are shrivelled cold black chunks of flint.
Jennifer .. I know how you are feeling about wanting to share. I found journaling in those situations to be very theraputic. Its not actually sharing w/them but just writing it out seemed to help me alot.
Its worth a try , and in time it will pass…And like you I see the AC so much clearer but it still doesnt change the fact that I loved him & shared so many facets of my life with him.. Its so much easier now but I still have those moments. But they are only moments & they pass thank goodness…Time & NC is the only way to get on with your life. I know that thanks to Nat & this blog.This was my life raft when I was sinking fast…
Griz/Kit Kat:
Thanks for responding! I “know” all this but my somewhat immature emotional responses still have a bit of work to do to catch up. One of my friends actually said she thinks he may be jealous of the things I’ve accomplished which flabbergasted me! He is an amazingly accomplished musician and I can’t imagine he would think that way about my recent foray into business. I have had a couple of friends say they are inspired and somewhat envious of me and I honestly don’t get it. Still struggling financially and emotionally over all this craziness this year…I guess you never know how someone else thinks…
I agree with Debz! I was in a two year relationship with a bordeline/narcissist who could not handle any form of criticism including that of the constructive variety from me or anyone in his life. If his work supervisor criticized his performance it was always her fault even when she was right or trying to help him do better. We never argued because I knew he could not handle conflict AT ALL. He ultimately ended our relationship after our one and only argument when I criticized his weight gain and nagging tendencies. He jumped right into another relationship with an emotional airbag he had been securing online for months unbeknownst to me. When I found out about the affair he wanted to continue to live together as roommates and accused me of “kicking him out” when I told him he had made his choice and had to face the consequences of his actions. Crazy! Flush! Flush! Flush!
It always amazes me how those who feel compelled to criticize can’t handle being criticized.
Oh Tracey! Ain’t that the damn truth!
Narc mother has never had a good word to say about ANYONE. But if anyone were to criticise her she would literally, and I mean literally, physically, fall down into a dead faint or start screaming hysterically as if they had stabbed her. Not joking.
I think that most people when they get the white lights treatment turn around and shine them right back. That can quickly escalate and get REALLY nasty, especially with men. There is a mirror inside every person, best like your own reflection before you start criticizing others because the tit for tat is a fire that burns down many a home….
In my past marriage my ex, and his family were very critical and condescending. I didn’t walk right, talk right, act right. I don’t feel rejected due to the criticism…or do I? Lol, not sure, but after all these years of being out of that toxic relationship I can feel the scars and old feelings of inadequacy flare up when someone (especially those whose opinions I value) is sharing criticism, even if constructive. I try to consider the source and content. I try to approach it and accept it as an opportunity for growth. Despite my attempts to do so the inadequate and worthless feelings linger. Unsure how to quiet them. Definitely I am work in progress.
I am really very curious. And would love anyone to answer. What does your abbrevation moniker stand for?
What you see is what you get 🙂 If only that had applied to my faking lying ex.
Thanks Furry!
My problem is not so much receiving criticism but giving it
I’m new to the blog and I actually got criticised by a guy on a date yesterday evening.
I am a very active person, 26 years old and I am currently trying out a lot of new things (snowboarding, wall climbing, surfing, etc…) I love all these things and enjoy shifting my focus between them. But he suddenly said: it seems like you start a lot of things and don’t finish them… I was shocked! Thinking: when did I say anything about me starting something new and not finishing it… I told him this, and he didn’t mean to do that, but I am still pondering about what he said. He actually implied that it might concern
relationships as well, while I am, as so many of us, looking for that one guy who doesn’t make me miserable as the ones before (oh yeah, I come where you’re coming from). And this event has me thinking: I really dislike it when people analyse myself like this. Because it makes me think this much, questioning myself… But in this case: I think the answer will be that I enjoy trying out all these new things and even though I realise I probably have to choose between them at one point, right now there is time for all of them so I don’t want to choose and so I don’t 🙂 thanks for this post it was an inspiration
Welcome to BR, Annabel. You are not alone. I frequently start something new with great enthusiasm, but then after a short period of time it fizzles out. The irony is that I am quite a tenacious person. My last self-incriminating act was discontinuing tutoring. The educational council at my church has developed a tutoring program for children in grades 1 thru 12. I adore kids and teaching, so I thought this would be right up my alley. Plus I thought is was an honorable an humanitarian contribution of my time.
That’s right: are you supposed to commit wholeheartedly to something that you’ve not even tried before? How do you know you’re going to be a passionate snowboarder until you start learning to snowboard. I think it’s a bit ridiculous to read “trying new things” as “unable to follow through”!
Anabel, you are still young, still trying new things – keep that up throughout life! He has his own perspective, which he doesn’t seem to be shy about stating, it’s up to you to learn to not internalize it, but learn to counter it if need be. Stand up to this type of fly by citique, his word is not etched in stone, and perhaps he needs help seeing another perspective. Let him know that you will continue to try new things for the rest of your life and if he sees it as ‘not finishing’ rather than ‘beginning to explore to see if you like it’, then obviously you’ll have to agree to disagree and decide whether that is an imcompatibility that is insurmountable. Give and take, some criticism, by the critic, seems valid, their pov, and enlightenment may be required, and could lead to an interesting conversation where you can suss out his ability to think and see another persons perspective. Great opportunity to determine if he is AC or not.
For children, it’s even more normal to “try new things”. But it wasn’t for my personality disordered parents.
They talked me into several activities THEY wanted me to pursue when I was 6 or 7 years old… and then forced me to stick to them for 4 or 5 years even if I hated them and wasn’t good at them. When I wanted to try something else, they told me that it was wrong to be so “volatile”, that I had to stick to my “decisions” (which hadn’t really been my own in the first place)… and never allowed me to do what I really wanted.
Anyway, as I was saying, after participating for awhile I’ve dropped it. I think I became a bit turned off when they came out with the requirement that all teachers go for fingerprinting. I know full well that it is for the children’s safety as crimes against children are rampant, but it made me feel uncomfortable, anyway. So, Annabel, don’t feel bad. You’re not alone.
I don’t think you should take what he said personally. It was not about you, rather I suspect it was all about him. In code he was probably telling you he doesn’t finish things he starts, things don’t last for him-including relationships. Just a hunch.
S.P. That’s an excellent assessment and conclusion, imo.
Annabel, this reminds me of those types of people who like to make judgements/pronouncements about others without any knowledge or basis. Trying out some new things isn’t the same as being some flaky person who can never commit to anything.
It irks me when someone I don’t know tries to tell me about myself–a criticism of sorts with no basis. A couple of small examples: someone who I had literally just met accusing me, out of nowhere, of not being spontaneous, of needing to plan out travel in advance. Not that it’s a bad thing if someone does like to plan, but I actually am pretty spontaneous about travelling. His tone was somewhat accusatory (“why do you always have to be like X?”), and he kind of just went on a tangent about it without any basis.
I also had someone say to me, “you’re so shy”. Again, this came from a stranger. He worked in the same building as me, and I had passed him from behind on the sidewalk (he must have been a slow walker). I didn’t really notice him but even if I had, we don’t know one another and I was in a hurry.
In both instances I thought to myself, “who are you to tell me anything about who I am, you don’t even know me?”
This also leads me to think about those who project onto others. The AC I dated was the cheapest person on the planet. He never wanted to go out, but was happy to suggest that “we” get take out, always expecting for me to pay. If he wanted to save money by not eating out, that’s one thing, but to always suggest getting something as long as it’s on my dime-not cool. He would actually arrive at my place “hungry” every time he came over and then expect me to go out into the cold winter weather, alone, to buy him food. (Apparently he never considered eating at home or buying something on the way over). He was once buying a few items that were under $10 at a store, and started “joking” about how I should pay for them. He was seriously pushing for me to pay for his things, not because he didn’t have the money or had forgotten his wallet, just because he thought he could get away with it. I said no, and once we got into the car he started muttering over and over again about how cheap I was, “cheap, cheap A” in this bizarre, angry voice. It was infuriating–so you’re not cheap for trying to push for me to pay for your things, but I’m cheap because this one time I’m actually saying no?
THANK YOU A!
I am so sick and tired of mooches and cheap ass men I could scream. I think this is yet another red flag (or amber depending on their current situation) that frankly isn’t be addressed enough.
Part of the reason I think the issue of money or usury isn’t dealt with is because it immediately goes to the other extreme of the stereotype “gold-digger” which couldn’t be further from the truth.
If you were a “gold-digger,” you wouldn’t have been messing around with this broke ass bloke? Right? So can we all agree that it isn’t the $ spent but the intent, the reciprocity and the generous spirit indicated or lack thereof?
I have PAID dearly over the years. I might as well have been married and paying alimony for the first and last clear cut mooch I supported and what I got in return was bad credit after a decade of stellar ratings. That 2-year relationship drained me while I was supporting myself through college. And I will have to live with the bad marks against me a lot longer than that while he found a woman who filled my shoes and supports his ass. And he’s not particularly handsome or charming. He’s lazy.
Had I not been so “understanding” so willing to “help out” after all it was just a few bucks here and there with groceries (never took me out on real dates — oh, wait I did) and it wasn’t all at once. It started slow and insidious and built up over time with speed.
I told him he had to get traction in his life (a steady job) before we could continue on as a couple. His solution to the debt I now owed was that if I would marry him, his parents would pay off the debt. I took the hit instead because I’m young enough to survive the credit rating and rebuild later. I am now after 7 years in the process of doing just that but it has limited me and was a costly lesson.
My parents offered to pay it off. I refused. No one held a gun to my head, it my choice, my fault and my responsibility. I took my lumps.
But I thought he was the exception. No, no, no! I’ve never seen so many men expect me to pay for every little thing ALL the time. And once they see you’re a modern, liberal woman whose willing to pay her fair share or contribute, instead of being grateful they go whole hog and take advantage. Suddenly, you find yourself always the one at the cashier paying. You find yourself eventually keeping track because you can’t afford to keep paying both ways ALL the time.
And then they have the temerity to complain about your working all the time when you’re paying for yourself at the very least and both at the very worst. Lose/lose.
I’m driving a 10-year old Civic. I’m a struggling artist. I don’t live in a condo. I don’t wear bling. I’m not coiffed or dripping or even have a diamond. So how in the world the gigolos are zeroing into me is anyone’s guess. I think the numbers of moochy men are on the rise. My sisters in arms are starting to at least admit it openly in a way a couple of years ago they were trying to hide the fact. I think this money issue is NOT nearly as complicated as these AC men would lead us to believe.
Why? Because I use my friends (similar financial bracket as mine) as a yardstick. It’s incredible to me how I can go out and have fun with my friends (male & female) and money isn’t a hot-button issue. Sometimes we cover the other because we can, and then the other returns the favor when they can. I was supposed to go out last night. My brother-in-arms admitted that with the end of the month and all, he was too tight to go out. So was I and I was relieved to stay home. We made a plan to see each other on the cheap (him w/ tacos & a movie, me with wine and ice cream). I also find it incredible that I have better “dates” with my gay and straight but mainly gay male friends who guess what…??? AREN’T GETTING ANYTHING! No BJs here. I even offer as a joke when they take me home (hell they even drive too) if they need a “lil sumptun sumptun” and of course they always laugh and same damn, girl, it’s that bad? It’s the running gag w/ all of us. They enjoy my company, they want to have fun and if it means treating me to a Mai Tai, they are all too happy to do so. They can’t quite figure out how a girl like me who is quite content eating fancy hot dogs and drinking beer and is not high-maintenance keeps being treated like no-maintenance? I’m not a snob. Not expecting fancy dinners out. I just want a guy to offer to buy me a cappuccino or a gelato. Seriously.
Just my reoccurring experiences. And frankly, I’m done with being the one always to pay. DONE! I’m not that girl but boy howdy have I been made to finally be discerning.
And yes, there’s been marked improvement with the men I’ve dated since the last cheap ass mofo. I don’t really enjoy being such a hard ass but I can’t argue that the quality of the men have 100% improved so there’s something to this whole cheap EUM/AC thing.
A man puts his time and money where his heart is. I think that’s true. If he doesn’t have much, he strives to do more and goes out of his way to do what he can with what little he’s got. If he’s too happy to let you whip out your wallet ALL the time then he’s a mooch and probably means the woman paying no good.
I’m listing my warning signs of a cheap ass AC. I’ve experienced all of these. Take from it what you will and proceed with caution.
1) He’s separated, recently divorced, filed bankruptcy, jobless or his current employment wouldn’t feed a cat. He has had some other setback to curb his finances. (Not necessarily a cheap ass. Suck it and see but pay attention if suddenly the shift of paying falls on you. It usually stays there.)
2) Doesn’t have his own place. (He can rent, have roommates but he needs to have his mail sent to an actual address he resides in)
3) Doesn’t have a car or other means of reliable transportation. (Been there twice. You are the chauffeur. Doesn’t throw in gas money. Also doesn’t mind you picking him up at HIS convenience)
4) He has children. (Okay…might take some flak for this but bear with me…be prepared to accept if said kids are young that a chunk of his $ goes and SHOULD go to the kid(s). This may infringe on future plans and investments. What if he loses his job for example? If you’re married, his allotment comes out of your paycheck one way or the other. Ask sooner than later if you can live with that. My friend is currently divorcing her husband because she paid for EVERYTHING to do with his child from a previous marriage for 10 years and received nothing but headaches, heartache and the kid (now teenager) is none the wiser and thinks she’s the bad guy. I mean really. Also, be prepared to sacrifice for his other child(ren) if they need something and you would like something but have to make a choice. A good man will find a way to negotiate. A loser will shrug and say, “Sucks to be you.” Can you live with that?)
5) He never takes you out on real dates. (By this, he never offers [even in the wooing stage] to take you out to dinner, movies, festivals, whatever your thing is if $ is involved. He’s very happy to offer you to a lovely stroll around the neighborhood or other free activities all the time but if it costs him $10, he’d rather stay home and watch a DVD.) More settled couples may prefer this. That’s something totally different.
6) Mr. 50/50. He splits everything down to the absolute penny.
7) Mr. Disappearing Act or Mr. Hands in Pockets. (You order XYZ and he suddenly runs to the bathroom or his wallet is in his car in Siberia, or he actually defiantly sticks his hands into his pockets and looks at you like…well…even though you’ve been paying and a little throw back would be simply good manners.)
8) Mr. ‘I’ll get you the next time.’ Probably won’t be a next time so just kiss that $ good-bye.
9) Mr. Money Shouldn’t Be an Issue’ True dat because it’s never his money that is an issue but yours.
10) Mr. Priority. When whatever it is costs $ that he likes or is wont to do, you might, have him come through or dutch it. When you want to do something that costs a bit, you pay your way and his way.
11) Your Idea. (Kinda goes with the above but I’ve seen this slick game played whereby if you suggest “Gee, it’d be nice to do XYZ [a movie, a gelato, a coffee — seriously, just a coffee), then because you suggested whatever it’s implied you’re paying. Now I will go along with this halfway but what these ACs then manage is never to suggest anything that you might enjoy. Ever. Keep them mean, keen and pulling out the green.
12) A borrower and lender don’t be. If you’re not even invested 6mos to a year, I don’t care what the situation is DO NOT BORROW OR LEND $. Go hit up everyone else but not the new love interest. It’s bad form. It sends red flags either way. If he’s controlling, ladies, and you “borrow” money you are borrowing trouble and a feeling of indebtedness. Don’t do it! If he has to borrow $ from you then he’s tapped everyone else or is looking for a Sugar Mama. Skip the sweets.
13) He cooks. This really is getting overly used, abused and is insulting to a grownup woman. If by cooking, he is going the extra mile, lighting candles, soft music and the like, without you washing the dishes or cleaning up…fine. He better be dishing up something special too. If he’s just sharing whatever meal he would’ve made regardless and plopping you both down in front of the TV a few short feet from the bedroom this is dating on the cheap. If you’re cool with this some of the time, great, just watch out that it doesn’t become the all-encompassing ritual. Once it does, kiss seeing other than your respective domiciles good-bye (this is a very red flag in the very beginning).
14) He already has had women support him in the past be it an ex-wife or a live-in gf. Take note. You’re probably next.
15) He comes into your home and evaluates your assets. He doesn’t take an interest in anything personal or unusual but on what kind of TV or other possible high value items you own.
16) He gives you a bouquet of roses (flowers, candies, whatever) and only lets you take one home. Not sure WTF that is but it is withholding and passive aggressive. He can brag or defend himself to all his friends that he got you roses but if they are at his place and he’s sending you a photo of them in bloom on his iPhone…um…that’s just weird.
I have suffered ALL of these and more but these are the ones that kept coming up repeatedly so there’s a commonality.
The worst one was the smallest but most indicative slight. Not sure what to call it so forgive my editorial. I was seeing this guy for a couple of months. He was cheap (see above). We had been out all day walking around an outdoor mall. It was July. Hot day. We had been holding hands when suddenly he took off like a rocket and said something to the effect, “I’m thirsty. I’m gonna get some…jibber jab as he was already running (I do mean full sprint) away from me. I stood there, confused but okay. I waited. After a few minutes he comes strolling back slurping a large sized lemonade. Slurping. A contented expression on his beatific face. I couldn’t wrap my head around the fact that he didn’t get two (one for me, one for him). It didn’t occur to him that we had been together all day and if he were thirsty I might be too? He walks up and I assume, well, he got the big one for us to share. Nope. Takes my hand and we proceed to walk with him slurping this shit down. I keep telling myself it’s just a little thing. Don’t make a big deal out of it after all I didn’t say anything (not that he hmmm…gave me much chance without screaming across the park). We got into a trolley, sat down and I proceeded to stare at him in wonder. At what point would he offer me some of his lemonade? Finally, I said “You know, I’m kinda of thirsty too. You think I could have some of that?” He looked at me like I was asking for his liver. He handed it over and said, “You can have a sip.” I thought as I took my sip, “Surely he doesn’t really mean that.” Oh no, he did. He snatched that drink out of my hand and slurped that whole thing down as if he were on fire. I tried to get past it. I tried to not care. Such a small thing I told myself. But I actually cried later that night because that’s the point. It’s such a small gesture, a small consideration and when there’s not even that…what do you possibly have? This from a man that claimed to have loved me. Love?
I broke it off for several reasons, but I think that was the singular moment of clarity for me. I told him how his behavior made me feel and he admitted that he just didn’t think about getting me one or sharing what he had with me. We had been together a few months. I said, “That’s the problem. Right there. In the lemonade (not nutshell). You never think about me on even the tiniest of levels how can I ever trust or expect you to consider me and my feelings when it’s something significant?” To that he had no reply and is still known among my friends as “The Lemonade Man.” It still hurts all these years later because I know what I did was right, but it is laughable too and yet so telling about our future.
That’s what my chief complaint about these moochy men ultimately comes down to because it isn’t spend X amount or I won’t be satisfied. It’s showing effort and care, consideration I afford my friends that I would like to believe a bedfellow or a lover could at least show me the same basic courtesy. Sadly, they’d rather have their 300 + cable (because soccer is so important) and their fancy gizmos and everything else but brother, can you lend me a lemonade. Sorry, they’re all tapped out on lemons.
Squeeze in this case, not flush.
A great post from you, as always, MRwriter! This reminds me of my favorite wisdom saying: ‘how you do anything is how you do everything.’ If he’s a stingy, using cheap ass about money, he’ll be stingy and using about everything else in the relationship. It all flows from the same spirit, or lack thereof.
God, I laughed so hard at ‘a loser will shrug and say “sucks to be you”…’
MR this is brilliant! I too feel kind of ashamed at how I got taken for a ride financially. It makes me feel like I was DESPARATE and actually I guess I was. Ex had plenty of money, I mean PLENTY, like hundreds of thousands in the bank. Own home worth loads, nice car, good job etc. Yet he mooched off me and I allowed it. Hotels, dinners. I even had a similar “lemonade” situation, except in our case, it was a hot August day and we had been walking for a couple of hours, and he had brought along a bottle of water. And nope, he didn’t offer me a sip all day. I was upset but of course, being me, I didn’t want to rock the boat by saying anything.
The last time I went on an actual date with him, when I knew I was going to break up with him, he just sat there with that defiant look on his face when the waiter brought the bill. I thought, “fuck you, I am not paying this time.” So we just sat there looking at each other. Then eventually I said, ” I think it is your time to pay, don’t you?” He was, like, “is it? Oh well, it isn’t such a big deal is it?” He paid but made ME feel like I was mean somehow for making him pay. Oh dear lord I cringe when I think back on it now.
It should have been a red flag when he told me how his ex complained about him being cheap and how it just wasn’t fair, she expected him to pay for EVERYTHING. I think he used this as a way to make me prove I was so different to her, and I would not behave like that. I was no mooch! Ha!
I would not want to sponge off any man, and I will continue to pay my share but I will never be taken advantage of financially like that again. And yes, the funny thing is, I drive a ten year old car, and am not what you think of as a gold diggers target. He knew his disposable income was far far more than mine. He was just stingy and controlling. Ugh!
I SO enjoy reading what you write MRWriter. You breeze right through to the heart of the matter.
It — all of it, time money energy thoughts ideas consideration effort creativity respect — is a demonstration of what he’s willing to invest in the relationship and in you. Pure and simple. WYSIWYflippingG no exceptions.
Which is why I agree ‘4)he has children’ needs serious consideration. My point is, he’s already fully invested in his children and his relationship with his children, leaving what proportion left, exactly, to be invested in anyone else? And in certain cases, if a dad jumps a mile high at every half-chance to ‘overdeliver’ on investments towards his children it may be because he sees it as an opportunity to impress on the ex-wife what a great guy he is once again — just like in those heady young days when they were starting out together. Sometimes covert investment in the ex-wife is what’s really going on under the banner of investment in his children. If this is the case, you not only better be happy on a diet of crumbs yourself, but you better be prepared to see some of the loaves you’re giving to him being quietly shared out amongst his previous family.
The roses thing, though, is a new one on me. He clearly was only buying roses for the most special person in his life. Himself. Why don’t these assclowns just treat their women/victims on their birthdays to a visit to the nearest card shop, pull a card out of the racks, hand it to her to read, then snatch it out of her hands and put it back on the racks? There. There’s your birthday card. Hope you enjoyed it. Happy birthday. Blowjob now?
A,
I hate to say it, but you showed him that you would be his meal ticket.
Ladies, please don’t support men, supply them with wardrobes and gifts and provide endless free meals! Don’t we deserve more for ourselves!
I take criticism by behaving or not behaving in a way that will appease the person who criticizes me, especially in relationships.
I spent my time in my marriage doing what my husband wanted, the more he criticized the more I modified myself, regardless of how I feel. I was hurting, feeling isolated and suffocated. He felt I have to with only him, otherwise I have secret agendas, which to him was that I am looking for an escape to sleep with other men.
I stopped being outgoing because it means I’ll be flirting, could not go out with friends because his ex used that as an opportunity to sleep around, I couldn’t go to the gym because it means I want to sleep with instructors, will make sure to keep receips and tickets to prove where I said I was, I’d spreas my legs to be checked if I have hsd sex with other men, etc etc. If I complained or cried I’s a whinging bitch, too sensitive, too emotional.
By the end of the marriage I struggle to be me. The anxiousness of being rejected stopped me from questioning things and take shady stuff passively. A fear of coming across as desperate, pressurizing someone, needy, drama queen.
It gets to the point now I pretend everything is ok whilst I’m struggling emotionaly. I’ve lost I couple of friends due to my whinging and crying about ex’s abuse before and after. I still have good suppotive friends who are there no matter what.
Thing is I’ve lost my confidence, I feel lacking in someway and I’ve come to expect rejection. One of future faker AC tried to even use the fact that I married abusive husband against me. In one occasion when I questioned his hot and cold behavior, I got among other things “..not many men will be with a woman who has been married to an ex like yours. ..”‘
Sometimes, actually most of the time I wonder if there is something about me that scream “I’m worthless, despise me me, abuse me..”. Hence that’s how I ended up marrying that kind of msn in the first place? That he was doing to me was what was in my own instruction manual? Jeesus!..
AC’s are who they are, they pull their crap on everyone. If we accept it, they pull more crap, almost like a test to see what they can get away with. They also use as an excuse for their bad behavior, and if we do anything other than the most self-respecting of moves, they shine a light on it and go ‘see, it’s all her’. AC’s are also everywhere, it’s up to us to educate ourselves to not fall into their trap. We WILL continue to bump into AC’s for as long as we live, they are a fact of life. It’s up to us to not take them personally, know ourselves and live to learn and grow, and know when to flush! You are not a magnet for these losers, you are still not healed enough to not engage with them. Work on your self esteem, your confidence, and eventually they will become comically ridiculous and you will be able to engage in a healthy way with a healthy man. Don’t take what your husband did as ‘you’, he sounds hideous, probably diagnosable with a personality disorder. He, however is a big learning lesson for you to discover how much you will put up with, and how you feel about yourself to have put up with that much crappola. The psychological ‘tear down’ that this recent man has tried the ‘no man will want a woman who was married to a man like that’ just demonstrates that he is probably just as bad, but he is deflecting, that’s a put down on you and is not ‘constructive’, but rather ‘destructive’. We need to learn the difference and respond accordingly – contructive = converstation and taking into consideration, destructive = FLUSH
Jewells, I love your analysis! I think especially the first part applies to anyone of us…
AfroK,
Your husband was beyond terrible. I’m so sorry that you went through what you did. Any man who suggests that men would not want to be with you because of what some terrible man did to you in the past is awful as well.
There is nothing wrong with you. Like many of us, I’m guessing that you didn’t grow up with the best example of a relationship? When we’re accustomed to abuse it feels normal, and that’s what leads to us getting involved with men like this. There is nothing wrong with you, the only change you need to make is to build up your self esteem and to recognize shady behaviour for what it is…to see the signs early on and stay away. These men are terrible because it’s who they are. They will be like this with any woman who they are with, you did nothing to cause it. It’s not your fault.
As jewells said, we need to learn to spot these guys and stay far away from them….to heal ourselves so that we are attracted to healthy people instead of ass****s like your ex.
Afro K. I wish you a speedy (as fast as possible) recovery from the trauma your husband inflicted on you. How did you ever stand it and cooperate with what he was doing to you. It was inhuman. You are not pig or any other animal. You are a human being deserving of respect and common decency and courtesy. I hope you will work hard on your self esteem before you try to date anyone else. Please don’t allow yourself to be mistreated in ANY FORM. And, please don’t reiterate any more about his sexual abuse. It is too shameful to mention. Try to move on. Are you in therapy?
Can I first say thank God for this website, it shows me I’m not alone and I’m much better off without him and better for the lessons learnt (or intended lessons if I could just get the last piece of my head/heart around it! ????). Long story short, one whereby my gut instinct was gagged, I idolised a recently separated man who was broken so much much that I put a positive spin on all the red flags, collected them together and made curtains for our home out of them! I was his saviour he used to tell me, don’t know what would have happened to me he’d say…. But of course would do anything for ex wife, as he always told me he’d have to help her to help his children, this is despite her fiancé living with her (fiancé she had had an affair with for a year before kicking her hubbie/my ex out for). I knew I came 2nd to her but jumped on the ‘its for the kids’ bus too! Fast forward 3 years, us living together for the last 18 months, him becoming increasingly distant, me feeling rejected, inadequate, and a shell of my former self, putting up with crazy things, like him ruining Christmas Day for my children and I by crying in front of them as they opened their presents but an hour later laughing and being fine when his children came to ours! Then later Christmas Day having a talk with me saying he couldn’t love me the way I loved him, I deserved better… Christmas bloody day!!! Should have kicked him out there and then but no, convinced him and me I was I one he wanted and he actually said he felt much better after he ‘off-loaded’!! Well all this change had come from his ex being dumped before Christmas, and texts/phone calls about how they still had feelings for one another and wished they could go back to being a family again! So in January I’m at work, being my usual shell of a person, pretending to be fine but dead on the inside and I get a text message to say ‘sorry please don’t hate me, my head in a bad place I’ve got my things and moved out’!! Dumped by text like a teenager! Not contacted for days after until I contacted him asking if he’s ok?!!!! Him instisting he’s not left me t go back to her, he still loves me but his head is a mess. Fast forward to the present day, he’s staying over there weekends, they trying again, going away for weekends etc. I can see him for what he is now, I’d never have him back anyway, but why does this still sting so much? How can I get rid of this bitterness and hate? Why are the actions of two horribly materialistic, lack of core values people affecting my self-worth so much? Why does it feel like criticism that ‘she is better than me’ when I would never want to be a shallow nasy person like her ( to inform her hubby about the affair she sent him 2 anonymous letters calling him a silly man do u know your wife is having an affair with ****, I mean, how evil is that! And he now knows it was her?!!!). Anyone got any advice on how to turn that stupid bit of my brain from being my enemy to my friend?
Oh, Nikki, welcome to this site! You’ll soon feel much better and more importantly, well educated in matters of assholery. What a horrible story! Look, in my experience, the way to break free of the past is to focus on the lesson instead of the emotions. It still stings because each time you revisit the memories, you refuel the emotions you’ve attached to them, and this is what keeps you trapped there. Focus on the lesson instead, and how you can apply it, in fact, you are probably already applying it now. This thought is very empowering and fuels very different emotions. That’s it: focus on these emotions instead!
You’re entitled to your anger and hurt. It will subside. Then you’ll have to accept and grieve. I recommend reading EVERYTHING you can on this site. It will help immensely. It will hurt at times because Natalie has a way of cutting through the crap and you will gasp at how you also played a role in this dynamic. This is not blame. It’s edifying, educational and illuminating.
I say this because my “epiphany relationshit” EUM/AC was separated. He had been separated, living outside of the family home for 2 years and was “finalizing” the divorce.
I made a concession to date this man. I rationalized away the situation. While I won’t say EVERY separated man is EUM, unfortunately, most are. It just is. We want to believe we are the “exception to the rule.” Those who are give us hope (albeit false hope).
My separated asshat had a small child. You have children so clearly, blending two families takes a lot of work, trust and empathy for this to be a healthy union. More often than not this creates strain and yes, I had the distinct impression that I was dead last on the priority list…and always would be.
To those who argue: Kids first! (And we wonder why 1 out of 4 college students today are classified as narcissists) I say, yes, reasonably so. If your current partner who is engaging with your child is continually being treated to crumbs, doormat behavior, disrespected and the like–that child is going to learn 1) that it is okay to treat someone the same; 2) and probably be exposed to tension, resentment and the like long-term as the partner is being treated like a camp counselor. This inequity is a deal-breaker for me.
He clearly had not resolved his feelings (no matter how toxic and by virtue of the fact they are toxic less likely they would be resolved) for his ex-wife. You took a chance. You invested. You were a “Buffer” and “Emotional Air Bag.” I’m sorry, but that’s the long and short of it.
End result? You are free if you choose to remain so from him. You learned valuable lessons. You came here, discovered BR and will be swiftly on the road to recovery which includes re-establishing boundaries, working on your self-esteem and eventually realizing that this ship would not sail probably even under the best of circumstances, but certainly not these.
I’m truly sorry you were with him so long and had his and your children involved and I would recommend that if he “Hoovers” or pleads to return, you consider the example you’re setting for your children should you continue engaging with a selfish AC man.
It’s not that you aren’t as good as the ex-wife or worse. You are not a reflection of his poor choices. That’s his to make and live with. Sounds like they are birds of a feather. You are not. Let them have each other. Let them rattle the cage with their drama.
You have a chance (although it may be way well into the future) to be with a man whose heart is free and open and available without drama, without an immature game-playing ex-wife, and who will not play favoritism between his and your children.
In the meantime, educate yourself here, vent to us, maintain NC and focus your energies on being a good mom and on yourself rather than on him and her.
Keep in mind, when it comes to EUM, AC, PTD and the garden variety narcissist, that we are all the Other Woman. I got this insight from another site and it is so true.
We are all the Other Woman.
Be the Better Woman. That is something neither he or she can ever take away from you.
The above comment was meant for Nikki
Oh Dear! Reading this post has been a bit of a setback for me. Natalie, you asked us to think about when we have argued with someone or disagreed with someone, and it didn’t mean we didn’t love or respect that person.
I thought and thought and realised that, other than my children, I have NEVER had an argument with someone I loved. So, in all my “romantic” relationships, including two failed marriages, I never argued with them, until it got to the point where I no longer loved them anyway, and so was not afraid of the potential fallout/outcome. I think I attribute this to my upbringing with narc mother. We were not allowed to disagree with her as this meant we did not love her. We were not allowed boundaries or ideas or choices of our own.
This has meant in that in my adult relationships I have absorbed all the criticism thrown at me and believed it all, without throwing any back. When I was unhappy with something I just internalised it and worried, and tried to think about how i could change it/manipulate, WITHOUT voicing my unhappiness. How effed up is that?
Still such a long way to go.
Tabitha.. I had a wonderful mother but still have problems w/setting boundaries & avoiding conflict at all cost. Right or wrong- I attribute it 2 having 2 much older siblings & being raised by a single mother. I never really learned how to fight/have disagreements with my siblings.My mother would give me the silent treatment when she was upset with me. I in turn go silent when there is conflict. Thats how I learned to deal with it. I am working on it.
This post brought me right back to the criticism masked as “helpful advice” by the AC/narc I spent a year and a half with. What narcs do is while they’re still in the ‘trying to win you stage’ is at the end they start to try to help you. But the help is really criticism. They are finding your faults and they are going to start to let you in on what they perceive to be your shortcomings by ‘helping’ you see them, too. So with this insidious type, the out-and-out criticism comes later when you are too weak/defeated to fight back.
This f’ed me up more than I could believe. I started to think of myself as truly defective and gross and physically unappealing. And this was with a man who continued to want my attention 24/7. Even my teenage daughter once took him to task when he criticized me for wanting some ice cream (he had issues with MY weight, even though he was quite overweight himself) by saying, “My mom can eat whatever she WANTS!” How horrifying that your kid notices this!
Of course, I couldn’t live up to his standards and he dumped me for a woman who was unavailable, but had the body type he desired. Months later, when that awesome plan didn’t work out, he came back, wanting to resume our relationship. By that time, with lots of BR help, I was much stronger and I said to him, “You never even LIKED anything about me…why on earth would you want me back?” I went on to list the things he criticized me about. He cried, but mainly crocodile tears, thinking that would work…like he had gone to sensitivity training or something.
The tears didn’t work on me, either, but then he got MAD at me, because he thought I was being MEAN. Then he tried asking if we could be FRIENDS. WTF? I basically replayed my prior speech, and again he became furious with me. But I haven’t heard from him since, so it’s all good.
I agree with a previous poster that the two behaviors are often the same with narcs and passive aggressives. Criticism is used as a means to try and force you to be the person they want you to be and also a defense mechanism to avoid looking at their own behavior. I try and keep my criticism kind, gentle, and constructive. Rejecting someone is a different ball game; I had found that in a relationship of any sort, that if the values do not mesh, rejecting has to come quickly, ideally before the other person even knows they were considered as pote relationship material. Trying to “make do” with a person or situation that does not jibe with my values will lead to a lot of criticism and hurt on both sides, not good.
I agree. Better to get out sooner hurt, than later and devastated. ‘Making do’ is a cop out and unfair to both parties.
Whenever I receive criticism, even though it is constructive, I become defensive. I’ve been told that I am exceedingly critical and yet I don’t handle it well when it is dished out to me. This is one of my ongoing issues that I struggle with. IMO, handling criticism with grace is part of maturity. I need to take in what is said, examine whether or not I feel there is any truth in it and try to improve where necessary. Easier said than done. I am one who is guilty of equating criticism with rejection. I have to remind myself that it’s not an attack, and the person does not actually dislike me, but it is hard and I feel resentful. I need to remind myself that no one is perfect and knowing one’s flaws/ problems is half the battle in overcoming them.
Tink,
Yes! Defensiveness=ME TOO! And your approach–or desired response–is exactly what I tell myself, too.
Sooooo difficult. Thank you for being honest and posting this…it’s so helpful to realize I’m not the only one. Maybe I’ll stop criticizing me for being this way, pause whenever someone says something I interpret as criticism (negatively, natch), and work on implementing your strategies. 🙂
Thank you!
Your welcome, Ell. We just have to keep working on this. We remain a work in progress until it clicks or…….. All the best.
I agree with you Tink — criticism can be used as a bludgeon by certain people, so not surprising if it’s delivered in a way that makes you feel defensive.
It’s also used by people who always want to wrong-foot you, to keep you feeling unstable and sub-standard, while at the same time demonstrating how much more authoritative and insightful they themselves are. Has no place in a romantic relationship. If your ‘beloved’ is trying to change your character, your ‘beloved’ must have someone else in mind entirely for their lifetime companion. In a friendship, it’s nothing more than bullying delivered in polite tones over a cup of coffee. In the workplace, it’s the institutionalised party-whip bullying system (“two positive comments for every negative one! that’s how we deliver reviews!” — the implication being that the negative one is twice as important as the positive ones). Why then, are we expected to doff our caps and thank the bastards for tossing what they perceive to be our shortcomings into our faces and pick-pick-picking at us?
Negative comments do weigh more than positive ones. We do have this negativity bias where “losses loom larger than gains” to quote Daniel Kahneman (Nobel Prize winner in economics together with Amos Tversky) who made an extensive point of this negativity bias we have in many of his writings.
Thanks Griz. You always give me food for thought.
I believe that some people think that being critical is the same thing as critical thinking. Something along the lines of: ‘If I can see the flaws, then that makes me smarter and better than…’. What they don’t realize is that it in fact makes them look like an idiot and inappropriate. It is an insecurity about their ‘smarts’, one colleague of mine, loves to weild what I call his ‘truth hammer’, but I witnesses him being told that he wasn’t ‘happy’, he stormed out of the room he was so upset that someone dared to tell him he wasn’t happy. He is abusive plain and simple, he can’t see it, in his mind he is just stating the truth and it’s the other persons problem that they can’t take it. He actually said to me that he was a happy person, but that he didn’t come across that way because he had to deal with idiots at work all day. He also said that he was too smart for highschool, that’s why he dropped out, that he attended university (tho no degree), so he knows more than most people…
Gad, it really sucks to get to know some people sometimes.
The only thing that keeps me from wanting to bludgeon the guy back is that the way he thinks and talks about others is a reflection of how he thinks and talks about himself. We have to spend only a limited time with him and have a choice. He, unfortunately, has to live with himself 24/7… no wonder he is miserable…
I was recently told that I enjoy my own company too much… There was a time my response would have been to do everything to prove how much I loved people/ being outgoing. This time I laughed at the silliness of “liking your own company too much” n instead noted that my critic never spends any time alone (honestly I don’t think she likes herself).
Perhaps there is more growth going on than what I originally thought with me… I still have work to do but I’m willing to see past my own nose and actually do the work to be better not just pretend n be an exhausted mask wearer
Critical people exist everywhere, including in ourselves. Indeed, criticism that hits a nerve is what I react to most, because it’s hitting something that I am already criticising myself for. If we are honest with ourselves about our ‘humaness’ and accept our foibles, then no one else can hold them against us. As I was still reeling from the percieved ‘rejection’ of the exMM when after all his FF/FF, when the shit hit the proverbial fan, he chose to work on his relationship with his wife, I also experienced a throw away comment/criticism at work, to which I reacted in a confrontational way. I realised since, that the ‘rejection’ by the exMM wasn’t that at all, it was just my perception. The reality is that he engaged in a fantasy with me, and that his ONLY choice was to do what he did when things came to a head, it wasn’t about me. The criticism that I reacted to only affected me because of my own doubts about that particular aspect of myself at work, and his criticism was just reflecting my own insecurity around it because I was new at it. I’ve come to realize that, yes, I am not proficient at it, but no one is proficient at what they have just begun doing. As well, this particular person is known as an Ass and says these types of stupid remarks to anyone HE percieves as ‘beneath’ him ie anyone he doesn’t rely on for work. It’s HIS problem, I don’t have to take it as mine. Still working on not taking AC behavior personally in ANY area of my life.
I was criticised by my coworker for the way that I communicate. He said I butcher the King’s English. While I am very soft spoken I do sometimes fail to project my voice and may not always enunciate properly but I doubt that I would have been able to keep my job for 17 years if I’m such a poor communicator. I processed his comment, took it for what it was, and was very cognizant of what I said to him and how I said it because I knew he was deconstructing and critiquing my every word. I started calling him the word Nazi. Correcting your child is one thing, but correcting adults, depending on HOW you do it, just makes you look like an elitist ass!
Sanntay… Way back when, the AC began to correct my english.At the time I didnt understand what brought it on. Just one day he decided to decifer my sentences and correct me if I made a mistake. It really grated on my nerves because he had never done that B4. I now believe it was because he was trying to find fault with me. Like I wasnt good enough for him because my grammar wasnt up to his standards all of a sudden. Like you said there is a right way to go about & a wrong way. I felt like belittled & less than..
Recently, my sister and I had a falling out. We work together in a family business. Shes been involved for 4 years… I, 5 months. I critisized her over many things… Blamed her for why the business hasnt been as profitable as it couldve been.
Fast forward… After a blowout… And two weeks away from the business. I’ve miraculously discovered, Im not always right. Although i think i am, im not. I dont know everything. My sister confessed a mutual friend of ours did not pursue a business venture w me in the past because she thought i was too “particular”.
At first, I was bothered by the criticism. Then I thought… The person giving the crticism is pretty unreliable, never follows through, so if she thought i was “particular”, i can see how that would be an issue for her. Not a good match, professionally. So with intimate relationships, its kinda the same. You can be honest, loyal, loving, but it doesnt necessarily mean the other person is the same. Its a conflict. So just like in a profession, if it doesnt work, find a more suitable job (man). I took the criticism as a compliment. “particular” isnt a bad thing when an employer is looking for that… Same in relationships. Just keep moving until you find a good match. Someone who appreciates u for all that u are.
Nikki,
Hugs to you. It’s infuriating that he expoited the love, care and compassion you gave him and his children. He used you as a temporary fix whilst he is working towards getting back to his ex. That justifies the bittetness, hate and resentment you are feeling. Anyone in your position will feel the same.
Also, it is possible he self servingly lied to you about his ex wife’s behavior to gather sympathy and present himself as a victim. Either that or he’s really thick. My ex used to tell me all sorts of sad stories of his wife’s affairs and how he treated her. He even had emails suppossedly of her intertacting with men. It turned out he created email acc in her name, and would send flirtatious emails to the men she knew, to see their responses.
Him telling you he did not leave you for her but his head is in bad place, is his way of reserving his fallback girl spot, just in case it doesn’t work out with his ex.
I’m glad you have resolved that you are standing by you by not taking him back. He doesn’t deserve you.
Cry your tears here in BR and all the wonderful people in here will be there for support. I’m fairly new in here and still at venting stage but reading Natalie’s posts and other people’s experiences together with the support I get from members do help a lot. Stay strong.
Thanks to everyone for their supportive comments. I can see that the two of them are cut from the same cloth and deserve one another.
I don’t miss him or his strange OCD ways at all, I just can’t believe that I put up with his passive aggressive ways for so long, i.e. him buying me a coat because he was sick of seeing me in my old one, buying me the latest phone because mine was a brick and it embarrassed and reflected badly on him everytime I put it on the table at the local pub! Image was everything and he needed people to like and look up to him, well I came along and don’t care a jot about material possessions, what people say etc. He is a classic narc and was full of self-entitlement, growing up in a wealthy family, having everything handed to him on a plate, including the family business. Whereas me and my children now the value of things and know happiness cannot be bought or found in ‘things’. I guess I’m more angry at myself because I was blind, I knew all of this and moulded myself into someone else. I was the type pregnant 16 year old, living on the social in my council flat but worked bloody hard to become what I am today (teacher/phase leader) so what in the hell was I doing, being controlled by this silver spooned mummy’s boy loser??!!!! ????
Sorry, meant to say I wasn’t blind which is worse because I’ve only got myself to blame! When I think of what I put up I have to admit I have a chuckle to myself – him criticising the way I answered the phone and said ‘hello’!!! Him always going on at me for having little money in my purse and all I’d reply is the cash point is only two mins up the road, it didn’t occur to me tell him ‘hang on a minute you’re the one with the problem, who else do you know compulsively needs £300 sectioned and folded into 100 and they had to be crisp £20 notes!’ If he had to break into this money he would have to go to the bank immediately to replace it! And I put him critising me!!! What a fool (me not him).
Interesting nicki. My ex bought me designer luggage cause I think he hated I had no label luggage. Bought me a Rolex watch and every designer bag known to man. I agree it is because they think it reflects badly on them if their gf doesn’t have those things. I use to be so excited thinking he must love me so much to buy me those types of gifts but it really is more abt them when you are dealing with narcs. It is also how the hook you in ESP when they throw those gifts with fantastic sex.
Both rejection and criticism reside in the box marked Things I Do Not Like, Ever.
I accept people as they come. I look at them, listen to them, take in all the information they’re putting out, and I let my head be filled with judgements and conclusions and suppositions and all the rest of it. I make up my mind about whether or not I like that person on the basis of all that information.
But from the very start I treat them all the same. From me they all get the same amount of respect and attention and kindness and humour if I can manage it, regardless of whether I actually like them or not. Because every individual deserves that.
And what’s more, I accept them. I accept they are who they are, as the sum total of their genetics, upbringing, social influences, life experience, and so on. They are the answer to their own unique mathematical equation. Why the hell should I grant myself special status to tinker around with their pluses and minuses, their factors and multipliers, their minuends and subtrahends and thetas and sigmas and helixes and strings and even those factorial operations things that are represented by exclamation marks? No. Seeing as how I’m not their mother and seeing as how they’re not four years old, that whole thing is just OFF. Oh-eff-eff OFF. Because that’s what criticism is. It’s a jumped-up attempt to control other people’s behaviours right in front of their faces, and make people behave in a way that they themselves can benefit from. It’s not even necessarily ‘better’ behaviour they’re arrogantly trying to impose. Just a change in behaviour that suits their agenda, whatever that may be. That’s what criticisers mean to do — they feel their special views and judgements (which are so much more insightful and valid than anyone else’s, obviously) ought to amend whatever personality mathematics people have. But one has to ask oneself what do they get out of it, these people who have oh-so-high standards when it comes to the behaviour of others?
Grizelda, I wholeheartedly agree! I don’t think we ever need to give negative feedback to others… unless what we don’t like about them directly affects ourselves, our work or some legitimate cause of ours.
If we attack some company because they are using child labour (and because we feel the need to protect those children), then that is legitimate criticism of course… but I don’t think this is what you’re referring to.
Likewise, when I’m working on a project together with a coworker and I’m not happy with his/her results for certain reasons, I’m asking that person to work on them again – because I (and probably my coworker as well) need great results. Again, I don’t think this is what you’re referring to.
But there is a lot of criticism in the world that doesn’t fall into either category. It’s this “I don’t like the way you dress”, “You should wear skirts more often”, “I can’t understand why you aren’t getting married”, “Why don’t you get a different haircut”, “How horrible, a woman with a backpack!” (heard that from old ladies – strangers!), “Why don’t you get a job that pays better”, “You don’t walk like a real woman”, “I don’t really like that new sofa you bought” and so on.
We are surrounded by that cr*p, so much that we often don’t even realize it anymore. Unfortunately, it tends to become our inner voice.
I find it incredibly hurtful. And I’m all for banishing it, Grizelda!
Oftentimes, criticism of others is how we try to justify our OWN choices. We are critical of people who don’t dress like us, who have different lifestyles, who pick different careers… because we are actually unsure about whether WE are right. If we can make others question themselves, then this means we can get rid of our own self-doubt, or so we believe (I think that doesn’t really work, but anyway…).
I’m currently having that problem with a guy I’m working with on a volunteering project (purely professional). Usually we work well together, but sometimes he starts questioning my choice of career, the software tools I use and similar things. This is always very annoying (because he is simply not in my shoes and therefore cannot know all the reasons why I am doing X or Y), and it has occured to me that he is really trying to justify his own choices.
Once again… another great post. Always gets me thinking. One thing I’ve noticed when it comes to feeling criticized by someone is that if I look at what they are criticizing me for I can find that exact thing going on in their life. I’m mainly talking about people who have done little self discovery. For example, people who criticize others for always being late do the same thing, or people who down talk others for gossiping are the worst offenders. It seems the reason they are so quick to judge is they find this same thing within themselves but are not yet ready to see it and address it. Many times criticism is more about the person dishing it out than the one on the receiving end. When we dislike something about ourself, even on a subconsious level, we can easily project it on to someone else, usually an easy target. On the other hand there is true constructive criticism where someone sincerely has your best interest at heart when they offer a heart-felt criticism hoping you will see it and wake up. Whenever I feel criticized I always consider the source. In the end, if you are ok with who you really are and capable of hearing it and DECIDING for yourself to take it to heart or dismiss it because you have the final say in any and all criticisms that come your way.
Tammy,
You are so right.
I hate to admit, but I can have issues with being late – something that I am working on – I am sometimes impatient with others when then arrive late. Not good!!!!!!
I have gotten much better with criticism. For the most part, I recognize it as something to grow from, unless it is that is meant to hurt, then I disregard – thankfully, destructive personalities don’t affect me anymore. Thanks BR!
what do you do if the criticism the person has of you is that you are “not good enough” for them?
i still struggle over a rejection from a guy who, was, in pretty much every sense, better than me. more attractive, more intelligent an amazing artist…we dated for 6 months and the experience left me broken.
basically 6 months of me trying harder and harder in hopes he would stop talking about himself for one minute and perhaps care about me, but the harder i tried the worse it got.
its been almost a year since we broke up and i still struggle with it. i am trying to be an artist, but to torture myself i go look at his comics. he’s truly amazing.
and it hinders me from drawing my own things, because I just keep thinking about his criticism in my head, all the time…that I’m not good enough..
it really is fucking with me but the fact is, compared to him, and compared to his ex-girlfriend (who I was always reminded of), i really wasn’t. i’m not nearly as artistically talented, or as smart, or attractive…anything… and it’s enough to take me to some….really dark places mentally, i guess.
i will never be better than him. i really just wasnt good enough.
and all the time, i tried so hard to make him happy.
always driving him around. trying to help him feel better about himself. listening to his egotistical rantings.
planned a massive vacation for us, pretty much alone. did almost all the driving.
how did he repay me? he literally abandoned me on a hike in a major national park. i was crying i was so upset. and then he yelled at ME over it.
same vacation, compared me to his ex-girlfriend while we were having sex.
same vacation, we got back to school, i was exhausted from driving. he drags me to go get dinner with friends. i am completely exhausted and during dinner he flips out because I ask him if I can borrow $1.50. calling me a “gold digger”. not even kidding.
and at the end…he was so nasty….never once really caring about me, just obsessed with talking about himself and how great he is..
but do you know what hurts? he really is talented. he is that 1 percentile. i mean he really has it all. i dont even compare.
maybe if i were good enough he would have treated me better but i mean no matter how hard i work at my art, i will never catch up. im homeless right now because my parents kicked me out. he comes from a great family.
im not his ex, and i am really just not good enough.
C,
I don’t have much time, so I have to make this short:
I don’t care if he was motherfuckin’ Michaelangelo!! The issue here isn’t his artistic talent but his lack of human kindness and respect!! You got it all twisted around, girlfriend. HE wasn’t good enough for YOU.
I agree!
People that have it together, DO NOT bully and disrespect. This guy has major self esteem issues!!!
You can’t compare yourself to others, but have to recognize your own gifts.
c, why is your life’s goal to be better than a guy who can’t get over himself? Better than a guy who can’t stop talking about himself, what he perceives as his ‘achievements’, his wonderful friends and family, and his magnificent ex girlfriend (note, EX girlfriend)?
Why instead can’t he monologue on what a rude, disrespectful, spoiled, selfish, tiresome, boring, jumped up, neurotic assclown he is? That’d be a much more interesting day and a half.
Sounds like rather than a breakup you’ve been brought back from the brimstone and given a second chance at a beautiful life with a loving man who wouldn’t dream of jawing-on about what wonderful talents he thinks he has.
I promise you that your consideration of his talent is simply in direct proportion to the hurt and loss you feel. I also promise you that the curators at MOMA won’t be much troubled by his work in this century or the next.
All together now, ladies sing it: He’s just not that special.
Oh Lord, if I could only share with you all the super talented people I know who are complete assholes… there isn’t ONE I would trade places with. We put so much emphasis in our culture on so-called “talent” and all the goodies that we expect will go with it – fame, fortune, success, praise, adulation, material goods, a beautiful or handsome partner in life… the list goes on. All too often it goes hand in hand with out-of-control narcissism and a manipulative or dismissive attitude towards other people. It’s really a tragedy that we make ourselves miserable comparing ourselves to them on the basis of these shallow values. Give me a genuinely kind and humble person any day who knows how to truly give and receive love! I have a good friend who has never been a loving, happy relationship in her whole life (in her mid 50s now) because she’s gotten it into her head that only professionally successful, talented men are worth anything. She’s starry-eyed about “greatness” and genius, and that’s all that matters. Every single one of them has been a complete asshole. And still she doesn’t get it. Just today she was babbling on about this new guy she met who happens to be a music producer, involved with scoring Hollywood movies, owns a bunch of companies and God knows what else – basically up there in the 1% with the movers and shakers of the world. Big deal. Sounds depressingly like the dozen or so other men who have treated her like crap over the years. I await the inevitable teary phone call when it all blows up in her face once again.
Anyway, I digress. Comparing yourself with others (especially to somebody like this miserable guy who despite his talent I could call a complete loser as a human being) is an instant ticket to the dark side. Mostly because it’s an absolute lie about reality. Don’t go there! Take some time to ponder what’s really important in life, and then only compare yourself with YOURSELF as you gain greater awareness and wisdom.
His life may be great or it may be miserable – you have no idea what’s in store for him along the journey. It doesn’t matter. It’s not your business. It has nothing to do with you! If you’re suddenly homeless, it sounds like you have to now gather up all your resources to help yourself, and the first thing is treating yourself with loving kindness – not berating yourself for not measuring up to this guy who is frankly so not worth it!!!! As Grizelda said, he’s just not that special.
c,
As the others have said, I’m sorry but this dude sound like a self-absorbed loser. $1.50 does not even buy a cup of coffee in my neck of the woods. It also sounds like you have to focus on getting yourself in order. Get this loser dude off the pedestal fast. You are good enough. You must repeat after me…I am good enough…every morning and every night. He sounds like a total dweeb. You, however, sound wonderful.
My two cents – my uncle is a nuclear physicist. Has all the social graces of a grasshopper. He is rude, dismissive, critical and I told him point blank that he was an arrogant so n so. He didn’t get it, and probably never will because his head is too far up his ass to care. I won’t treat him special like so many do just because of his profession, same thing with my father – a doctor in a small town, no shortage of adoring admirers JUST because he’s a doc. His adoring second wife finally dumped him because she finally got him hitched and discovered that that peice of paper was not the magic switch to turn him into a caring loving man. He is an arrogant self centred fool, who can’t see it and as a result, can’t change it. Position in society does not predict character, in fact, they are more likely to be character flawed because of unrealistic projections put on them and getting away with more crap BECAUSE of their position, they have no impetus TO change. According to my brother, my father is depressed since she left, but still won’t actively do anything about it. Story of his life. Poor, hard done by D****.
There are various forms of criticism. In the past I used to take everything at the same level and think it all had to do with me. I think that criticism that is just “offered” without context, without your having asked for it and without it having anything to do with the other person is simply gratuitous and can actually be spiteful and controlling. Like if you are trying different sports/adventure activities what does it have to do with him? Are you not turning up on dates on time because you are rock climbing? Did you ASK for his advice on your personal choices? I don’t think you should let this destabilize you, in fact I think it is warning flag that the guy isn’t sensitive and might not appreciate your special character and gifts. Others just might think it is cool that you are trying many different sports out . So what…it is what you want as long as you aren’t hurting anybody else.
If a person isn’t directly affected by what you have said or done why offer the criticism or advice unless somebody has asked for it?
With people I trust I can say, do you think I came on too strong, I feel this, and I want to act this way and my good friends will give me feedback and advice. Even then I will process and look at it and see if I think it is something that I think is helpful.
Where I have problems is where a zinger comes in that is gratuitous and that I am not prepared for. When that happens I feel blindsided and I bust my own boundaries by often not saying anything. I am trying to learn to at least “clarify” what has been said but this is a newer thing for me. Small example – I coloured my hair a bit darker a year ago – it was a big step… When I met a friend a few weeks later she said how much she liked it …and then she went on to say – I am so glad you did this because I HATED what you had before, it just looked awful on you, it wasn’t a good look at all. I really really didn’t like it.” (This went on for what seemed a LONG time)
It was an awkward situation because I was leaving her house and was in a rush, her husband was sitting right there (what did HE think I wonder) and I just couldn’t gather my wits about me to respond because I was so hurt, stunned and unprepared. Of course I thought – WTF did I look like a DOG for the previous five years??? I never did call her on it because I later realized that she had let little zingers come at me before and because I don’t actually trust her to be a good friend in my life.
If a criticism came in that I hurt somebody or let them down or inadvertently had done something careless or not honoured a commitment or something like that I would be very upset because these are my values. In cases where this has happened I have to take the time to just listen and then sometimes go away and then came back before I can say anything meaningful instead of just reacting. My daughter said something to me a few months back that hurt her and I was terribly hurt at first because my intentions were good but I did listen, did not defend took a break and then went back shortly after and thanked her for telling me, apologized and assured her that I would do my best to be sensitive in this situation in the future. I felt good about that.
A big problem for me has been in the area of unspoken criticism in combo with not feeling valued and loved that I felt in my marriage. My ex grew up in a very controlling family of an alcoholic. He never ever said anything that bothered HIM in our marriage – about me or his needs. He never brought up things that hurt him or occasions when I was insensitive or had hurt him. He never had that kind of deep emotional engagement with anybody as far as I can see. But he filled our relationship with unspoken criticism and simmering resentment that was shown by blocking, diverting and attacking me when I brought up something that upset me, “correcting” me or my work or subtly undermining me. His body language was often disapproving – scowls, big sighs, rolling eyes, not listening, not hearing, ignoring and most of all, forgetting. I found this form of unspoken criticism far far more painful that just speaking out because I felt constantly nervous and on edge. It also never brought us closer together as I think these kinds of situations can. I often doubted myself and still feel edgy around him when we talk or are in contact. One of the results of this relationship is that I think I feel a bit too “needy” for approval so have to be careful where this leads me.
Did I miss something? When did we get to thinking/ saying that ANY criticism is the devils juice? Seriously. If you are at all reflective you are aware of your issues (whether you choose to address them is another thing entirely) so someone drawing attention to something which you might actually need to work on is NOT in and of itself a bad thing. It can be an opportunity for growth…. if we were willing to take our nose out the air n put a pause on flying off at anyone who dare suggest we might have something to work on (the audacity I swear!),
that we might not be (clutch the pearls n large inhale) perfect…
I think this is Nats point (plz plz plz correct me if I’m wrong Nat) criticism does NOT automatically equate to someone telling us how we are wrong. Criticism can actually be useful (we are sometimes the last to see something) Granted… Yes, we do need to look at who its coming from and determine their motives but some of us are actually pointing out things you might not be aware of but should know.
I say this as the person who asks pointed questions people don’t necessarily want to acknowledge much less answer. I’ve actually had to learn to curb this bc people really can’t handle it. Now I don’t assume I know what it means to you or the best way you should handle it n I might even say “u know I have a similar issue with x how do you handle it?” Mere criticism doesn’t mean I’m the devils spawn, trying to chip away at the fabric of ur very being and/or that im talking crazy. We do need to be able to determine the difference between them and act (or not) accordingly. Otherwise, we might never learn to look at ourselves honestly and/or grow from it.
More so, if I can’t offer up some 3rd party insight about you, then that means you can’t say jack to anyone else either… and what we have then?? People walking around with their skirt tucked into their hose n no one saying anything bc u might see it as an attack on ur ability to dress yourself??
Yup, I’m the woman that goes around telling people their shirt is inside out, who says excuse me I’m going to touch you ur tag is hanging out… not just cuz I want to find reasons to point out “flaws” but rather cuz I hope that someone might care enough to do that for me should I need it. There has to be a middle ground… where we can give/receive feedback n not have the earth cease spinning cuz they’re infering or referring to ur imperfection… which as a human being (sorry to be the bearer of bad news) you are.
Fearce,
I agree wholeheartedly. *still clutching pearls* 😉
I have been criticized by many of my best friends (romantic lovers and companionate friends) at one time or another over the years. I am very active, devotedly autonomous and voraciously extroverted so cross the paths of many people in many realms. I do deliver on my word a vast majority of the time but in order to prove unequivocally that no one is perfect or 100% honest in ALL circumstances, I have not met every single commitment I made to each one of them.
I appreciate being criticized because: 1) I welcome people’s honesty which is not commonly offered in spite of our insistence of it’s importance, 2) I have found there very well may be something I need to recognize in myself to improve (time management), and 3) It is very revealing about the other person. I ignore or rationalize away valid useful criticisms at my peril.
However, it is in romantic love that the rationality of the criticism begins to fluctuate and we generally become less astute. When one is heated one tends not to express oneself, or listen to the other, in the objective ways one would criticize or listen to a companionate friend. (I have experienced both and the difference is usually quite apparent.)
Once a relationship enters a sexual phase, both people typically change, their criticism also changes its nature and is no longer aimed at bettering the other person. It reliably becomes about what is necessary for the other to meet my needs. If those needs come from unresolved deficits or wounds from the past, they cannot be met by the other person nor can the needs be simply jumped over and ignored. The profound opening that occurs in deep sexuality does not allow for that. By definition, it is going to get messy if it goes deep. I fail to get the value out of criticism offered in this mode if I do not steadfastly ask questions – and fully listen to the answers – of the other person rather than reacting in a highly scripted manner.
Thank you very much griz and revolution. Your comments really made me feel a whole lot better. Ive been struggling with it a lot but in retrospect i think about how he treated me and he was honestly abusive, i think. I think what got to me is thst he would constantly put my art down while at the same time talking about how great he was and it really started to mess with my head. Thanks for putting things in perspectve, i truly appreciate it
Natalie and all you lovely commenters, I am a long time reader and just wanted to say a big thank you!
This site was a major eye-opener and, along with a therapy last year,it has helped me to change my negative beliefs and self-talks into cheering myself on.
I have made peace with some stuff and got over some major hurt. I was really honest with myself and realized that yes, I was absolutely unavailable for a relationship. ( bought you two books, Natalie, they actually helped so much more than my therapist especially for the love stuff)
Before, I went through the motions, just so I would have somebody and chose men whom I could “help” – because I didn’t know that I could be loved without being helpful and understanding (my old role in my family, so much has changed), without daring to ask for help myself and then asking myself why I was dating such immature users…well, I was a user too, I needed these guys, so I would not have to take care of myself so much, since I could concentrate on them instead.
I am coming out of months and months of radical self-care. Sometimes it was very very hard, because you get uncomfortably close to some feelings that scare you – old pain, feeling small, feeling that nobody will ever love you in a way that you want to be loved – completely, feeling sad and frustrated and old (I am only 30 but well…). I never gave myself much credit and always pushed my feelings away, deep down. When it all comes out, it hurts. But it’s good, because I started assessing these feelings. I am telling myself all the time, that I am okay, I am loved, I am worthy. I am starting to believe it and it’s a great feeling, to have your own back.
Anyway, I take care of myself and have done so much with your help, so thank you so much.
I am starting something new with a man that has been a good friend these last months and I am so grateful. He’s such a good man, a guy I would have never gone for before. He is kind (it is so important to be kind) and gentle and has a life and friends and also wants to take care of me and also has some insecurities and I do too and then we talk about it and it’s all good. When I am communicating a boundary, he respects it. I am opening myself up again, after all these years and it feels scary, because he could really hurt me, since I feel so honest and like him so much. But it’s a good feeling, it makes me smile a lot and it doesn’t feel shady and my gut tells me that it’s all good. If it doesn’t work out, it would be sad. But what is really awesome, is that I am at a point, where I know that I could be in a relationship without losing myself. And that’s the first time in my life that I feel this way and that I “know” that it will be good eventually. I really love myself and my life and my friends (the friendships benefitted a lot from all this work on myself) and my choices. I got very lucky and meeting a good man and letting him in – a bonus.
So thank you, Natalie, for being funny and painfully true and wise and for sharing it with us.
Hi Cookie. Your post really struck a chord with me because it could be me writing that. I have been through and felt exactly what you have so I know exactly what you are talking about. My life is hugely better and happier than I can ever remember. My boyfriend is a very kind, loving, respectful man also and it has been wonderful. I am soooo happy for you. I pray that things between you will continue to grow and get stronger day by day. I’m sure the therapy and BR are responsible for your “new self”, as they are for me. Remember to give back to him what he gives to you and never forget where you were months, years (?) ago. you don’t want to go back there, so be smart. My deepest best wishes and hugs for you, Tink.
Tinkerbell, thank you so much for your answer. I would never want to go back to the ‘old’ me, the one that was violently unhappy and buried every emotion under an armour of self-contempt and apparent coldness.
It will always be a work in progress, but that’s life for ya! 😉
I am just coming back from a week-end with the new man and feel so thankful, that I can accept this love in my life. I honestly feel like a teenager with him – without the insecurity of one. Growing up rules.
I wish you all the best! We really get to enjoy our life, because we made it so.
Hugs! Cookie
@ C-
I agree with Revolution, his talent means nothing when he can’t even behave in decent humane way. My question for you is why would you keep putting yourself in harms way and let him continue to beat you down, day after day, when it sounds like you are way too far there already. You need to get clear on why YOU have allowed this and find your self-esteem and get your power back and trust me when you do, and you WILL, you will see him in such a different light his head will spin.
Someone like this asshole you describe will never see your greatness no matter how you twist yourself up to prove it to him! Here’s to you focusing on YOU and Flushing that waste of space.
@ C-
One more thing, that 1.50 you asked to borrow from him… tell him to keep it and shove it straight up his talented ass!
Jumping in late here – and maybe saying what’s been said –
I grew up in an environment where criticism was considered “constructive” and “good for you.” I remember when I was young feeling like I’d never want a guy who was all sunshine and positive because that would be “unrealistic”: I’d learned that those close to you are the ones who supposedly call you on your bullshit.
It took a lonnnnnnng time to distinguish between someone subtly power tripping and telling you to be who they think you should be and someone who is carefully, judiciously delivering some criticism that is only meant to help and comes out of love.
This not only meant that I felt comfortable and “at home” with guys who liked to pick on me or be some kind of male-role-model figure with lots of advice (ugh, now, when I think back), but it meant too that I felt comfortable also telling guys how they should behave, thinking that I was doing people a favour with my “honesty,” etc.
Now I’m somewhat embarrassed by what passes for respectful conversation amongst my immediate family. And embarrassed at how many people I must have put off with my “advice” i.e. criticism.
Don’t be fooled, ladies. Only someone who is okay with telling you what your strengths are, how amazing you are, how much they love you, etc AND who “walks the talk” by being consistently supportive has earned the right to offer constructive criticism in those few moments where it might be needed.
Those who waltz in and seem to take you in and “assess” you and know what “your problem” is immediately (i.e. the ones who used to make me feel like they knew me because they echoed my own internal criticism) – FLUSH!
This was a tricky post for me Magnolia. I’ve been on the recieving end of abusive criticism as has many others. Thus, it becomes difficult to discern the chopper/abusive criticism from the “constructive” criticism which I think Natalie is referring to in this post. I think you’ve helped me distinguish between the abusive vs. helpful criticism. Someone who walks the talk and is consistently supportive earns the right to offer support.
This is a fine line for me being a former abuse victim. So many abusers abuse through offering what they think is constructive criticism. In reality, in dealing with an abusive, personality disordered individual, their form of abuse is through criticism. That’s why I backed off responding to this post…it’s a sensitive issue. Like you say, those who waltz in and sum you up..it’s a flush.
Mag and Runner. Thank you for your open, honest and poignant remarks. I’m thinking about and taking it all in as I continue in my struggle for increased self esteem and inner peace. Love you guys.
One seemingly silly, but very telling example: My family used to give me hell for my poor handwriting. It really IS very bad… barely readable (even for myself).
Consequentially, as soon as computers came up, I started typing almost everything. I think healthy people/real friends would be happy about that – finally they could read what I wrote without any effort!
Not so my family. They gave me even more hell for my habit of typing things… for being “lazy”, for being a “coward”, for not wanting to “expose” my “sin” of having horrible handwriting and so on.
This criticism still stings. Now, decades later, I still feel guilty for typing things on my computer, even if almost everybody else is impressed with my great typing speed.
How sick is this? It also shows how much damage abusive criticism can do.
C,
He might very well be at the highest place in his career…. the fact he thinks so much of himself will severely limit where he can go from here.
You are blessed to be in a place of acknowledging ur present limitations n putting ur nose to the grindstone to develop ur craft to whatever potential u choose. If you would adjust ur gaze from him to u…. I’m not gd enuf isn’t going to help u. Seriously. People will always run their mouths…its up to u whether u choose to believe them. U mt not be where u want YET but only one thing is gonna get u any closer…doing the work.
Ps. I’m talking to me too. Head up. Onward. Leave that idiot in ur dust.
I’ve previously written about a man I was involved with in a past post. I’ve recently, finally broken off all ties with him due to my views on his behavior. Perhaps it was criticism on my part that lead to his defensive reaction that made me say…enough.
He was once a potential love interest, but turned out to be someone who wasn’t into me. I was starting to kind of dig him, but as I got to know him, his actions turned me off, and what slight feelings I had stirring inside were quickly diminished. Yet, I was intrigued enough to just be his friend. He’d ask me out to dinner or come to my place to hang out. There may have been a small glimmer of hope on my part that something could come of this. Or perhaps nothing would…I don’t know what I was thinking – I just like his companionship. Up to a point.
As I got to know him, I found him to be condescending, whiney about his dead end job and crappy apartment. He ultimately confessed that he was a love addict, and has dealt with relationships with no boundaries, and seems to thrive on chaos. (The movie Silver Linings Playbook is is most favorite film, and seemed to find a romance in the bi-polar and manic behavior of hot Ms. Jennifer Lawrence). Me? I don’t care for drama. Although when I’ve spoken my mind, he’s told me he didn’t want….my drama.
Again..I tried to just be his friend. We’d run into each other walking our dogs. Suddenly, I’d be stuck as his audience on all his damn problems. He hated his job. He hated his apartment. He hated his situation. It got to the point where I dreaded seeing him coming my way – boasting that he ran into his crazy ex at a self help meeting the night before. Oh.. He goes to self help groups every other weekday evening to solve a love addiction issue. Yes, he’s an addict, and apparently I should be grateful I dodged a bullet and not have become a component to his bad behaviors.
He’s studied spirituality and was very arrogant about his learnings; however, he never practiced any concept of spirituality other than quoting and mentioning gurus he knows. If I said anything – or contributed opinions – he would brush them aside like my thoughts didn’t matter to him. I took it in stride. I was, after all, just a friend. I tried not to judge him. And – sometimes he’d be concerned about me or my troubles – but it was 80-20 in this “friendship.”
Then, a few weeks ago, I ran into him again. I’m trapped. I have to walk my dog, and there he is – on my street, walking his. Trapped. Ugh. I couldn’t bear it. There’s so much going on at work, and my head was wrapped around a project, and yet – there he is and now I’m his captive audience on stuff I really don’t want to hear.
That’s when he told me he was going to start dating a woman 20 years his junior – who is still living with her current boyfriend, but is going to be leaving him. This “friend” of mine is 54. She’s 34. “What would you have in common with someone that much younger?” Awkward silence. Then…”She’s very mature for her age” he said, justifying this potential dating interest. Yes. Very mature of a 34 year old woman to start a new relationship when she’s still in another one.
When I mentioned that it seems he’s justifying the bad behavior he’s trying to cure by going to self help groups, he got very cold and defensive. He wouldn’t even listen to me.
“What’s all the twelve step stuff you’re doing? Aren’t you just negating all the work you’ve put into healing?” “Oh, it has nothing to do with that. Can’t help it…I like this drama.” It was very awkward, and ended with him saying that my reaction was enough for him to never mention it again to anyone else. He would hardly let me rationalize this. Why would he even tell me this? What did he want me to say? I couldn’t find the words. I was flustered. We parted. I left him, went on Facebook, and articulated what he wouldn’t allow me to say and unfollowed him. He wrote back the next day, but I only glanced at the first sentence and deleted the conversation – plus blocked him. I’ve been insulted enough by him. I told him that when we meet on the street to not engage with me again. We’ve learned what we need to learn from each other. Lets bless this experience as friends and let it be. Let it go. My parting “gift” to him was to give him the delusion that I read him note. I didn’t.
My anger stems from various insulting remarks he’s made to me in the past. Now, this new girlfriend issue is also insulting. He won’t even hear my view on this. Also, my feeling was – So, I wasn’t good enough, but you gloam onto dysfunctional situation? When you’re going to 12 step programs to attempt finding a healthy relationship?
Goodbye to that. I gave him a few months to show me what he’s about – and I got the message. If I want a male friend, I’ll just stick to my gay buddies. They are honest, loving, hilarious, supportive, and no head games are involved.
Glad to hear you’re finally flushing this guy and please don’t allow him to trap you into conversation again. You don’t need to give him your views on anything he’s doing. First of all, it’s pointless, second it’s not your business and third, he’s A BIG SLEAZY CREEP WHO IS NOT YOUR FRIEND! A friend does not brush aside your thoughts as if they don’t matter. I don’t understand why you want the companionship of someone whose actions turn you off. A lot of “intriguing” men turn out to be assholes. Even though you’ve told him you don’t want to engage anymore, it’s likely he’ll try again. The next time you run into him when you’re walking your dog and he wants you as an audience to his narcissistic whining, if it’s uncomfortable to ignore him or tell him blatantly that you don’t want to walk to him anymore, just say “Sorry, don’t have time to talk now, gotta go” give a smile and keep on walkin’! No explanation, no comment, no apology. If he has a shred of guru-lite awareness, he should get the message.
Thanks Wiser. You’re absolutely right. I guess I thought I could just be friends. He did start off as someone I was attracted to. Yet, as I gave it time, it was necessary for me to justify my gut feeling and see how things went. He basically showed me he was not the kind of person I wanted to spend time with. He sapped my energy. Our interactions added no value to my life. I dreaded running into him because he’d moan about the same stuff. He would talk about dating certain women, which actually bothered me – despite no longer being interested in him.
I also don’t think he’ll try to engage with me again. He’s incredibly prideful. When I wrote that final note telling him to stop engaging with me, as mentioned, he wrote a note back. Although I didn’t read it, I did glance at the first sentence and the tone was not nice. Something about me “living in my private Kingdom” – but I didn’t read further. I’m a private person, and have the right to be. I also mentioned in my note that I was also beginning to see an old friend casually (who is really sweet) something I felt wasn’t his business to know. So I had never told him until that note. I mean…why? I had stopped hanging out with him, he stopped calling me, I stopped calling him, and we hadn’t texted for weeks and weeks. While I was rekindling an old friendship (that could turn into something more), he was casing all of L.A. for a new girlfriend. I told him that I didn’t feel open enough to him to tell him about this other guy, and it ticked him off. After all, he was telling me stuff. But the thing is – I never asked him to.
Anyway – now that I’ve written it out for others to read, I feel better. The more I drone on about him, the more I start to sound like him. Time to move on.
Trik. What an interesting, well written entry. I wish you all the best. Thank you for sharing.
Hey Griz, your comments are right on and echo my sentiments and how I approach my relationships with others. I will say however that critique and discrimination is very much a part of the collective human psyche. . . Its a big part of what pushes us forward. I realized very recently that while I was having problems with outwardly aggressive people that had the courage to speak thier minds to me, my issue was one of passive-aggression, i.e. wearing people down with little comments that would come bubbling out in conversations, “bullying over cups of coffee” like you say.
The lesson that I was able to take from this was finding some kind of a middle road. Adults don’t respect being told what to do or who or how to be from any one, spouse or partner included. That being said, criticism is part of communication and for people that wish to stay close and purge any resentments, its absolutely necessary. But there can be balance in the approach, tone, and content of the conversations and tempered with compassion. Its the difference between cafefully watering and pruning a plant or spraying the weeds around with roundup and realizing you’ve poisoned the groundwater.
Anyhow, something to chew. Xo
Yes, for anyone who’s been here a while, you know that I broke my ankle badly in the autumn, and a ‘work friend’ would come and take me for groceries and coffee once a week. Now, I’ve come to realize that he did this because it was an ‘in’. He intimated his interest, but I could not reciprocate. He has what I called, to him, a ‘truth hammer’. I really couldn’t spend more than an hour or two with him each week because the more comfortable he got, the more the ‘truth hammer’ came out, whether it was about me or someone else. Even while I was on strong meds for the injury, I couldn’t spend much time with him. That should say a lot 🙂 I tried to talk to him about this, but he can’t seem to grasp why others have such a problem with him ‘telling them the truth’ – his perspective was that people couldn’t handle the truth. Well, ‘the truth’ was poorly delivered and unnecessary criticism. I even took him to a meeting at a personal development school I’ve been involved in. He sat back and derided everything that was going on, and even said that it was for stupid people. I tried all I can try. So, the conclusion is, that he will not try. He is very committed to his way of being. One of the teachers at the school, after having a conversation with him to see if he was workable, said to me afterwards that ‘it was like trying to describe water to someone who’s never experienced it’. He just cannot grasp the concept that a) he’s not happy (he declares that he is, but never smiles and only has negative things to say), b) there are other realities beyond his own.
Conclusion is, I tried. He won’t change, I won’t argue with that, but I also won’t subject myself to his way of being voluntarily anymore now that I’ve realized to what extent his bitterness and stubborness exists. Also, I realized that the reason I could only spend a couple of hours once a week with him, was because I couldn’t ‘just be myself’ around him and doing this actually makes me physically ill if I have to do it too long. BR educated now, I am getting what the dynamics are and choosing better.
Oh, then there’s this guy I though I was starting to see – we got along imfamously, I LIKED his company. Well, we’d talked about a movie Friday night. Then he texted me on occasion all week, which was throwing up a flag, also mentioned a porn movie several times, but I thought I’d see what came next. Well, friday at 7:30pm, he texts ‘oh, I haven’t forgotten about your movie night’. So I left the message for an hour and a half, then responded that I hadn’t heard from him, so I’m just back from the gym. His response was that I also could have called him, so we both dropped the ball. So, I said, well movies will still be there over the weekend, so how about a raincheck. He agreed, end of conversation. Saturday, texts me at 4:30pm ‘I’m fed and watered and ready to go, what’s the plan?’ I responded that I hadn’t realized we’d made plans, and I’d already promised to visit my friend tonight. He responded ‘have fun’. And haven’t communicated with him since. SO…mentioning sex too early, expecting me to cater to his schedule, last minute plans, texting and no phone calls, certainly no inquiry as to my day or my plans are, expecting me to make the plans and resisting participating in making them, I gave him ample opportunity to engage in planning, and he wouldn’t engage. A grown ass 45 year old man and he couldn’t even pick up the phone, nor make plans even a day ahead. Thank goodness for my BR education or I might not have seen this for what it is, and probably have taken it personally that he won’t treat me properly. I now understand it as HIS shortcomings, he places the bar low, I keep mine high, so if he wants to see me, he HAS to meet my bar cause that’s where I live now, and no matter what, I no longer reduce myself to someone elses low bar. That woman no longer exists.
Growing up I exhibited alarming behavior. I was a seriously mal adjusted child. When I came into a home that was not healthy but at least provided me with an opportunity to be physically taken care of so that I could survive, these caregivers came face to face with a child full of rage. I’m sure they were no doubt terrified of me at times. And I am referring to the time I was a toddler and small child. I didn’t have any friends, found it torturous to play with other children and just wanted to be left alone completely.
I really just wanted to curl up and die. I wanted my mother more than anything in the world. She was sick and could not take care of me. I wanted my father to stop messing her around and to stop coming and going coming and going. Obviously I had no way to articulate these things so I lashed out and reasoned it was not okay to like people because they hurt, leave and abuse you. Unfortunately for me this was mostly, if not totally my experience.
So the general tone of certain family members (incidentally the ones who provided me with the most opportunities for an out and growth via pushing me to get an education) has been, “Don’t upset Peanut. She is crazy and if you do upset her you will bring the crazy out.” These people who had a hand in raising me would totally overlook behavior in me that was not okay. As a teenager I never learned true consequences. Yet, I was ostracized for or abused for behavior that was more along the lines of being a teenager.
As an adult I avoided the work force with vehemence because I knew I did not have a penchant for working with people. I’d crumble at the slightest hint of criticism. Fortunately I’ve had a few people of late respectfully tell it to me straight. And I have a therapist who is not abusive in the least but is very strong and assertive.
Criticism has been one of the most wonderful things to have came in my life his past year. And far better than any man I have known. Growing up I was criticized heavily for my appearance. I was beautiful! Sure I had and have had skin problems since I was a baby but it’s not my fault!
I went into the world thinking if you were female and pretty enough, you could disregard boundaries and limits and get away with anything.
I poured hours and tons of money into my outward appearance grossly taking advantage of family and their money. As they had fueled the beliefs behind this behavior, they were happy to oblige yet they eventually expressed concerned when I stared spending thousands (no plastic surgery thank God, but I did contemplate it). Clothes, makeup and countless hours in the gym were my life. Before I graduated college I started to move away from this behavior though I still held the belief that your worth was only as good as you look based on consumeristic societal terms.
After college I got a job in non profit (not because I had such a huge heart, but because it’s all I found and thought what the hell). No one gave a shit what I looked like. I was judged on my performance which with little to no experience sucked. I kept being challenged in ways I never had been. Different things started to have meaning for me. Don’t get me wrong I am not an altruist nor will I never be. And I am far from a Saint. That for sure is not my calling. But some of the most wonderful people I have worked with are not at all what mainstream society pushes as desirable. They’re not the pretty clean cookie cutter preppy versions we see spat at us on commercials. Or the perfectly structured smiling models telling us what to wear or buy. No these people has scars inward and out, some disfigurements that I found wildly heartbreaking and beautiful. I met some sweet souls, some nutty ones, wild ones, tempered ones, wise ones and probably psychotic ones. But I encountered a richness that is lost under makeup and the gleam and sparkle of new purses and pretty jewelry. Don’t get me wrong I like that stuff to. I don’t have the money for it but I’ll be the first to stare at a well adorned person with awe and curiosity.
My point is coming from at least half sane sources (unfortunately I do not think my ex was) criticism can be one of the most enlightening gifts. When a wise or respectable person tells you what’s up, listen. And with all your heart, egoless. It will serve you well. Shit, I should write fortune cookies 😉
Shit Peanut, you shouls be writing an advice column never mind fortune cookies 🙂 My ex cheated on me with a vacous, narc make up assistant. I took this as a huge criticism of my physical appearance. Whilst I’ll never win any beauty contests I have always considered myself a kind, honest, funny loving person. She phoned me and told me that he thought I was nothing but a fat effing bitch. This was a man I was married to for over 20 years and had 2 children with and he walked out the door without a backward glance when he hooked up with her.This whole physical perfection thing burns me I cant even walk through a department store as I cant look at the make up assistants.Logically I know I am critisising myself by their shallow standards, but the hurt is immense.
lately, I try to approach criticism in two categories (roughly that is) and that’s whether it’s aimed at what somebody has done or said or if it’s aimed at how somebody *is* according to the accuser. The lather being hurtful, and best of all ignored whereas the first may always have some truth in it. Afterall, other people may view certain things you’ve done or said completely different than you ment it to set out so I think it’s always constructive to see how your words or actions have affected somebody else, even if they may have interpreted them all wrong. Who’s to say if they did? It’s a whole other ballgame to me though if somebody is ‘critisizing’ me in an attacking kind of way f.e. ‘You àre selfish’ instead of ‘you’ve been acting really selfish’. Since I’ve been working that out for myself I can even reread some of the hurtful stuff my ex-AC has written to me, because I can see more clearly where he actualy made sense about my going about things, over where he just freely took shots at my very being. I can take more distance this way. Maybe these are points others have made over the past few days here on BR, but I read things so many times over and over again, only after a couple of days I usualy get some real insights for myself and I liked to share 🙂
“How to compose a successful critical commentary:
You should attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly, and fairly that your target says, “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
You should list any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
You should mention anything you have learned from your target.
Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.”
Dennett, Daniel C (2013-05-06). Intuition Pumps and Other Tools for Thinking
“This why some people take a person not reciprocating their interest as a criticism of who they are because they associate it with rejection.”
This is exactly my problem, and I can’t seem to get over it. We were friends a couple of years, then we liked each other from different countries for half a year to a year, then we slept together (by which time I was in love with him) and then that was it (as far as he was concerned). I couldn’t understand how he could like me, as he said, and then have one night with me, and be over it. So, it had to be something I did that put him off. In the two months since I’ve haunted myself with regrets of the things I should have done differently.
When we were having sex, he said ‘you’re beautiful’. I think I thanked him but then I suddenly thought I should say something back. Why I felt that was necessary I don’t really know. I couldn’t think of what to say without sounding lame; ‘you’re handsome’ just doesn’t have the same ring to it. So I said, awkwardly, that I had no words for how I felt about him. I felt it made the moment awkward. I hate talking during sex, the stuff that other people say can sound lovely but anything that comes out of my mouth is a total moment-killer. I think because I’m so self-conscious of how it sounds.
When I told him how I felt about him, later, and he gave me all his excuses of why he didn’t want to go any further, I was too afraid to be bold and say, ‘I’m crazy about you’ or ‘I love you, I’m in love with you’ which was the truth. I feel like I was weaselly in my words. I am so utterly frustrated that nothing that came out of my mouth vaguely resembled the awe and affection I felt for him and the beauty I saw in him. Instead I was stilted, ungraceful and unconvincing. Even though I know he was turning me down, I believe I’d feel better now if I’d had the courage to say the truth and let it be known. I don’t believe it would have changed the outcome but I feel like I’d feel better about myself, in that I showed I’m not afraid to be honest and vulnerable. I’m really not usually but I had had a few drinks (I curse that fact!) and everything went wrong for me having that conversation at that time.
Then there are the other things I wondered; was I bad in bed, did he not like my body, was I too quiet when we hung out together? (Because I liked him so much and now where there had never been a need for conversation starters I was at a loss of what to say.)
The other big regret is that I didn’t fully enjoy the moment when I was actually with him. It was what I’d waited for, it was all I wanted, but I couldn’t fully let go and be in it. Looking back I wish I could have the chance of those moments again, and think how I’d relish it. But at the time, I didn’t feel safe to relax or something. I suppose because he’d already been hot and cold and I was wondering when the other shoe would drop. I wanted to know it was for real on his side before I could let my guard down. Or something.
It just doesn’t seem possible that he could go from hot to cold in one night unless I’d put him off. Even if it was the thrill of the chase, surely he’d want more than just one night before he completely lost interest? Considering how long the attraction was building up for? He gave all kinds of reasons, many that could be completely legitimate like the fact we live in different countries and he wouldn’t want to get attached to each other but be apart, the fact he’s had a lot of problems in past relationships and wouldn’t want to hurt me, the fact he stays awake all weekend, every weekend doing drugs and partying at the moment so his life is quite unstable right now. He told me he was asexual, he told me once he wondered if he was gay, but he has had a lot of women coming and going over the past few years and he didn’t seem to be gay or asexual at all when he was in bed with me. Now that I write this I can see in plain black and white that there’s a good chance it wasn’t all about me and my faults or mistakes. There’s some stuff going on in his side of the fence as well. But tomorrow the same regrets will return, and I’ll be back in it; it’s been two months and still it haunts me. I just want to be free of it, the memories playing back, the alternate actions I wish I could take. I have a really vivid imagination so the alternate reality in which I do and say all the right things is so clear and appealing. I can’t accept that there’s no going back. I know it’s in my head and in my control but I haven’t managed to get a handle on it yet. I’m praying I’ll be able to forget it all forever.
Wren, my heart goes out to you because I’ve been exactly where you are. I too have played the alternate reality scenarios in my head about what I wish I’d said, what I should have said, how I fizzled when the moment came and then beat myself up for not speaking up… all of it. It took me a lot longer to get over how I was treating myself about this “failing” (which was viciously) than it did to get over how he had treated me! (which was only poorly). How screwed up is that?!
So lesson learned… and that’s how you have to treat this, as a lesson learned, there’s nothing you can do to go back in time, and now you have to forgive yourself (“Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past”) and vow to do better next time. I’ve come up with these two rules that I am living by:
1. I will not hesitate to speak my truth, stand up for myself, take the risk to be vulnerable and honest, and confront people with what they are doing if necessary.
2. Having done that, I will not hesitate to then let it go, leave it alone, walk away from the other person (go complete NC), stop allowing their opinions of me to be so important (they aren’t), and give up the need for “answers.”
Thank you Wiser! It helps so much to know others have been in my shoes. You’re right in that my beating myself up is so much more damaging than anything he did. He was actually quite respectful in not dragging it out and sleeping with me more times when he knew I wanted something more and he didn’t. I think what I am coming to realise is this. It seemed to me if I could have gone back and done things differently, then everything would be okay right now, like life would be perfect if only… But I believe that my mind is stuck in a pattern of regretting, ruminating, and worrying so even if I’d done everything perfectly in this situation then chances are I’d have constructed something else from the many other areas of my life to be focusing on in a negative way. I believe I can use CBT reframing here to tell myself a different story. For example, he didn’t see in me something that made him want a relationship with me but that doesn’t mean I don’t have amazing qualities (I KNOW I do) and it doesn’t mean that another (even better) man won’t. And he did me a favour by letting me down gently but firmly very early on (well not early on in the scheme of things but at least early on after we slept together.) Another thing that helped was reading your post, especially this part:
“then let it go, leave it alone, walk away from the other person (go complete NC), stop allowing their opinions of me to be so important (they aren’t), and give up the need for “answers.””
I need to stop making his vision of me in to something all-important. I also read something from Natalie where she said “you have nothing to prove to this person”. That REALLY woke me up. I’ve been acting like if he doesn’t see that I’m a beautiful, brave and loving person then I’m not. But I know that I am. I know I’m all of those things, whether he does or not. I don’t think he saw the real me in the end, although he knew it when we were just friends. He didn’t see the real me because I wasn’t in an authentic place due to my lack of confidence in myself, how much I liked him, and the fact that I’m quite lonely at the moment so having a connection with him was, like Selkie said once, like being a starved orphan suddenly planted in front of a buffet. It put way too much pressure on the situation in my head. I DO KNOW the real me and that’s all that matters. I know the truth about my feelings for him, even if he doesn’t, and that’s all that matters. If I believed he was the man I should be with for life then perhaps it would be a tragedy but he is in no shape at all to be a boyfriend let alone someone I could commit to for life. (And chances are, as he isn’t currently doing anything to work on himself, he won’t be in shape for that for a very long time.) At least I learned some lessons that could be very valuable when I meet a man who does stand up to the criteria for a serious potential candidate.
Thanks again Wiser for taking the time to respond to me xxxx
Don’t get me started on cheap ass men. I haven’t the energy to
explain. We’ve all eerienced this (or most of us anyway). FLUSH! Tight with $ = tight with love. Eff off. I deserve fat better!!!! We ALL do!!!
*far better I meant
Jewells,
Thanks for support. I sure do agree regarding the lesson on how I “put up with his behavior and how I feel about myself to put up with such crapolla.” A lot of work is needed on that. I remember justifying some of his behavior. When I ran out of justification, I remained with “at least he is not beating me up,” which lasted until he hit me when I’s in labor, then I justified he was just stressed and worried. Then came the chocking, the list goes on. It feels good to know I’m not looser magnet, though I think I need to learn how not to attract them I guess. I do need to read and re-read Natalie’s article on self esteem. And from everyone’s comments, I can see I have a lot yet to learn about myself.
Sorry about the ExMM AC and how he engaged you in fantasy land. It must have been a horrible situation for to deal with his hot, cold unreliable behavior. It also so great you sound to have come of it strong, and with a lesson to “not taking AC behavior personally in any areas of life”. I want to reach a place where I can feel that way.
Tinkerbell,
Thanks re “”How did you ever stand it and cooperate with what he was doing to you.” Surely it is something I need to explore, hope in therapy, as I’m seeing a psychologist and narrative therapist. Thanks for the support and I agree with having self esteem in check before dating, because jumping into it after that soul destroying marriage, just got me into other ACs as I was using my ex husband as a yardstick, that surely they aren’t the worst. How I wish I knew BR 7 years ago!
A,
Thanks for your support and also food for thought re: “not having grown up with best examples of a relationship.” I certainly need to explore that because although my dad and mum are still married, I’d say after being an adult I’ve wondered why my mum is still married to my dad. It turns out I might have some role models on how much crapolla I can put up with. It hurts to admit because I grew up thinking my dad is the best dad in the whole world.
I’m sorry for your experience with that squeezer looser,abuser, cheap assclown. They do come in different colors don’t they? He doesn’t deserve you. I do agree with you on seeing shady behavior for what it is. I’m at the early stages of learning that. We need to stay strong in this war with Ass Clownery!