Rena asks “NML, I’ve recently met this really great guy – he’s gorgeous, sexy, funny, and I feel excited around him. I’ve been bumping into him for a while and we always flirt like crazy but it never seems to go anywhere. I don’t think he has a girlfriend but he does seem to flirt and pull back a little. He’s never actually asked me out. Some of my friends were saying he’s a playa but I think they might be being a bit hard on him as they don’t want me to get hurt. I decided to ask around with his friends and they say they think he just broke up with someone. I have read some of your posts before and you say we shouldn’t mess with guys who are just out of a relationship but I just know he’s interested! What should I do? Should I make a move on him? He might be shy or something!”
Rena…I don’t deal in a fluffiness so I have to tell it to you like it is. Be very careful of making excuses for a mans behaviour, especially one that you don’t actually know very well.
I can’t say exactly how you feel but the attributes you describe, whilst nice, plus the excitement you say you feel, don’t add up to much in the grander scheme of things if they don’t add up to something of more substance.
A guy that really wants you will ask you out. A guy who hasn’t got ‘other things’ going on will ask you out.
I don’t buy this “he might be shy” BS. Why? Because if he was that shy, he wouldn’t be flirting like crazy. Some (OK my blog buddy Lance) would say he hasn’t got any game or doesn’t know how to close, but..combined with some other things going on, you are around a guy who has ‘other things’ going on.
He’s just out of a break up. Unless the relationship was dead in the water already, he’s over her and he’s so crazy about you that he’s jumping into stake his claim, I’d hazard a guess that he’s just playing.
He’s dining off the attention.
The pulling back, the inconsistent behaviour, and the lack of action suggest the makings of a man who is emotionally unavailable. This could be temporary or it could be his regular thang and unfortunately, you’ll only find out whether it is temporary or whether he’s a Mr Unavailable when it is far too late if you continue to pursue the man who is not showing many signs of wanting to be pursued.
Flirting is quite easy for some people. Flirting is also subjective.
How many opposite sex friendships have had the waters muddied when all that laughing, giggling, and feeling like you both totally get each other has been mistaken for ‘flirting’ and ended up with an injured party being knocked back.
As he so very clearly isn’t shy, I personally wouldn’t go asking him out.
I don’t know what “just” means in terms of him breaking up with someone, but it’s recent enough for the guys to say “just” so I suggest you “just” leave it.
I also don’t know what the “think” bit is about either. You either know he broke up with someone or he didn’t. I think your friends are probably right to suspect that he may have a bit of playa-itis.
Instead of being armed and ready for a great flirtation next time you bump into him, restrain some of that eagerness, not only because you are likely to reveal his true intentions but also because he sounds like one of these guys who won’t come running if you make it easy for him.
Don’t end up being the girl on a piece of string that he toys with. Don’t make the move. And when you meet guys that appear to flirt and act ambiguous, come out of the rose tinted haze and ask some questions. Don’t commit to being crazy about somebody until you know what you’re dealing with.
It’s as simple as “So what’s the deal with you? Are you dating somebody?”
And yes, there is a reason why I say don’t mess with guys that have just broken up with their girlfriends. You are not the woman to make it all better and whether you are a man or a woman, you need to get yourself over the other person and the break up before starting up anything else.
Good luck!
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Gorgeous, sexy, funny men are hard to find…VERY hard to find. For Rena, I would suggest she throw the vibe out there that she’s interested and would be open to a date. If this guy has any game at all, and he’s single, he’ll make a move. If he’s a player (I suspect he isn’t), then he’ll definitely make a move.
I agree with NML in spirit though, don’t ask him out or put yourself in a position where you are too emotionally invested in this guy before anything happens. Just take the flirting for it is is…flirting, nothing more.
OK, I like NML’s advice, but for a different reason.
Forming a great relationship depends on a lot of luck, communication – and timing. He has to be ready to make a major change in his life, and you do, too.
Unlike Lance, I think you should assume that he is confused, rather than actively pursuing a relationship. After a recent breakup, he needs time to figure out how (or if) he contributed to the breakup, accept whatever happened, and deal with any other issues that are likely lingering.
Jumping into another relationship does *not* short-circuit recovery time. It detours around recovering, becoming a secure and stable person ready to participate in a healthy relationship. I admit, it does happen some times that someone gets snatched up on the rebound, and finds comfort and happiness. They find that magic, healing person.
Except – when you heal someone, you need to ask yourself, “Hmm. Wasn’t there something about doctors and psychiatrists not treating their own family..” Right. By performing the healing, you sour any relationship.
My advice? Be friends. Ignore any flirting, don’t flirt with him, don’t encourage impolite (what you would expect from your mother’s pastor) attention. Wait until he doesn’t feel like an abandoned puppy, an injured animal, or a shy kid. Shy – a socially fuzzy name for ‘afraid.’ He has to manage his own injuries, his fears, before he will be ready to be a responsible and healthy partner.
It is good that you feel affectionate, that you feel desire and the beginnings of a bonding. But please use your head, first. He isn’t suitable. He cannot be good for you while he is healing, and a relationship with anyone will delay or hinder his healing.
And whether he is seeing someone now, or has just broken up with someone, he can rekindle that old flame any time he gets the notion. Which is attention, affection, and time he squanders that should have been used on your relationship. Plus, it is a marked act of disrespect to turn to another. You have to wait for him to accept emotionally that his previous affairs are actually over – not just deny to himself and others that he still has feelings.
I guess I see your choice as either: a) pick a frustrating and likely very brief sex buddy; or b) wait, allow him to heal, and check back later (much later – months or years) to see if you are interested in him as a partner and mate. From what you say, he won’t be ready for a good long time. Settle in to be a friend with no expectations of the future, or look elsewhere.
I agree with Brad. If he is flirtatious and then pulls back and gets distant – it’s for a reason. It’s not because he doesn’t enjoy or like you. It’s because he doesn’t want to take it to the next level right now. And that reason probably has NOTHING to do with you – otherwise – why would he be flirting?
I guess I should preface that with – assuming he’s not a player or a narcissistic flirt. Which you say he probably isn’t.
Still – it wouldn’t hurt to try the “friend” thing and make your flirting a bit more subtle to try to gauge his real intentions.
If he just got out of a relationship, he probably is healing.
I’m speaking from experience. I am coming off of wasting two years in a flirtship/friendship/casual sex-relationship with someone that exhibited the same behavior.
I remember thinking – “I can’t get beneath the surface with this guy but he really seems to like me”. He’s always flatter me and make me laugh. But – for us to have a serious conversation about something other than work (we work together) was almost impossible.
When we started dating last summer – and we started having those conversations – sometimes it was wonderful and I really felt a huge connection. But – more often – I learned how hurt and jaded he was by the failure of his fifteen year marriage and how bitter he is about his perception of his young adulthood being “snatched” away by getting his college girlfriend accidentally pregnant, getting married “to do the right thing”, having two kids, and then getting divorced when finding out that his wife was having an affair.
He was always honest with me – he told me he couldn’t give me what I wanted.
But I thought – that our “attraction” and “friendship” would win him over. Because I FELT IT. Now I know – what I fell does not equal what he feels or felt about me.
I still feel the pull (I still work with him) – but I finally have my eyes open and am being honest with myself about the situation. I CAN’T waste anymore time.
I’m not saying your situation is the same. But – if I could do it all over again – I think I would have read the “red flags” better. And maybe not have wasted a lot of emotion and time.
Good luck!
Be careful with the “friend” thing. I tried that with my EUM and it only works if BOTH OF YOU are on the same page as far as your feelings and what you want out of the relationship. If one of you has stronger feelings than the other, it can get pretty messy, and someone is going to get hurt.
If Rena and the guy have flirted and have obvious chemistry, which she states openly, then it’s ON. This seems pretty cut and dried…the guy had a partner and couldn’t ask her out, but now he’s single and he can make a move. She wants to date this guy, otherwise she wouldn’t be considering making the first move, which is actually her initial question. Don’t over-analyze this one. She wants to know how to set herself up. Encourage them to get together. If he’s a jackass, Rena is a big girl and can handle it.
I agree with Lance and NML. Don’t make the first move. Flirt. Carry on as you have.
Basic fact of the matter is that yes, he may be wary to get into something else, yes, he may be flirting to boost his post-break-up ego, but no, it doesn’t sound like he is a player at all to me.
If he were he would’ve moved on you from the get-go.
Flirting is fun, and if you enjoy it with this guy, keep it up.
Patience is EVERYTHING.
Let it happen naturally. Don’t force it.
And if he is a jackass, like Lance said, you will be able to figure that out soon enough, and if you keep up your guard a wee bit till you know him a bit better (ie. just frickin ASK him…lol…don’t play the ask the friends game) you will be able to handle it.
Luck Rena!
I agree with NML I don’t want to be cruel but if he doesn’t ask you out it’s simply because he doesn’t like you ENOUGH to make the effort to ask you out. And why would YOU want to go out with such a person? We deserve much more than that.
If you ask him out (or if you appear to be too eager to go out with him) he will probably say yes for lack of anything better to do. But is that the kind of guy you want?
There isn’t such a thing as a shy guy. Even the more timid guy will overcome their shyness for a girl they really like.
And personally that’s the kind of guy I like. Someone who really likes me and go out of his way for me.
Good luck!
Flirting doesn’t necessarily mean that he wants a relationship. If he wanted one, he’d pursue it. If he just broke up with someone, he can’t be so shy that he is incapable of pursuing something he wants. I’d go with Occam’s Razor here–if he flirts, then it means he enjoys flirting. If he hasn’t pursued it further, it means he doesn’t want to pursue it further. As far as what Rena should do–enjoy the flirting for what it is, but not make any moves or expect anything from it.
Flirting and acting interested and doing nothing is something mostly women do. He knows what he is supposed to do when a woman responds to a flirtation he’s HAD a girlfriend. He just doesn’t seem interested enough to do anything about it
Seems like you have wasted enough time on this guy, when men do this to me and make no moves… I move on and start flirting with the next one I see of interest. Dating is competitive and I have other options, and there is no shame in exhibiting this to men. Let them know you are a quality woman and if he won’t bite then you are going on to others who will.
See, we’ve come to the point where women act like men (e.g., asking men out), and the men act like women (via flirting and playing “coy,” like women), and men STILL have the benefits of all-the-sex-with-no-strings. It’s great to be a man in this day and age, I tell you.
The only reasons why marriage still exists: (1.) mothers; (2.) sisters; and (3.) daughters. If men weren’t related to those, there would be NO reason for marriage to exist, AT ALL, in the world we live in today.
So, next time he plays or toys with you, start up the tears and say, all coyly, demurely, “You wouldn’t want your sister/mother/daughter to be treated like you treat me, would you?” You are not even being that manipulative, either, b/c you ARE stating facts. And this works on ALL men, the ones who are stuck in “madonna-whore” to the most feminist.
Also, most men are not smart and have no self-respect anyways. That’s why the nice girls finish last. Didn’t you know that?
Dear Ashley,
Read your post here.I agree with a lot of what you say about being in a relationship where one person feels all the chemistry but the other does not.I have been in one such emotionally draining relationship for a long time now.My eum never had the kind of feelings that I had for me.He showed that so many times by his words and actions.I would be the one wanting to call him and talk to him all the time,he hardly felt that way.I would be the one making all the plans to meet him,he was hardly interested.But I thought that the intellectual chemistry that we shared would take us far.I was all wrong.It never took me anywhere.On the contrary,it has ended up making me a nervous wreck,confused..not knowing whether to stay in this relationship or break out of it.I think I need therapy now.Not sure.
Hey, brooke, I am in exactly the same boat as you. I thought that my attraction to him was strong enough for both of us-how could he possibly not fall for me?
At first I actually rejected him because he wasn’t giving back, but he pursued me so ardently that I allowed myself to be drawn into it. Eight years later, I’m still not getting it!
Definitely time for me to stop chasing nothing.
NML delivers the best advice. Guys throw out ambiguous signals for any variety of reasons, mostly ego oriented in the end. I just went through multiple episodes of great intrigue — very intellectual, witty rivieting recently divorced guy showing all kinds of attention, multiple long evening talks, heartfelt discussions about everything in our lives, including relationships, kids, work etc., personal inquiries into current dating status — as if it mattered — and then, following disclaimer of any current entanglements, I had good fortune of bumping into this charmer with very lovely lady jogging through my neighborhood like old married couple on a Sunday outing. Ladies, it’s very tricky out there.
I’m past being annoyed, just rather more cautious not to accept the drivel at face value. Ego boosting behavior to a guy, as NML aptly points out, does not necessaryily translate into honest attention/attraction to a lady. Thanks NML, for once again helping us to discard the rose coloured glasses!