I was speaking with a friend of mine recently who was quite bright and breezy as she was dating a ‘nice guy’ that she was introduced to via a work colleague that had been itching to matchmake them for ages. They’d been on three dates, he was calling and texting a lot and initiating the arrangements. So far so good. Then she said that they hadn’t kissed, there had been no affectionate gestures beyond a quick peck on the cheek when saying goodbye but that he’s “obviously a gentleman and wants to take his time”. Cue me holding my breath and praying the she didn’t ask my opinion. She did.
So here’s what I said “My spidey senses tell me that something isn’t right here. I don’t know of many men, never mind 39 year old ones that would let a 3rd date go by and leave it ambiguous enough that you wouldn’t know if they were interested. Not so much as a snog? What is he? A monk?”
I’m not suggesting he needed to be all over her like a rash, but their dates were ambiguous enough that she wondered if they were just “friendly get togethers”. He couldn’t even get his arm up enough to hold her hand! My gut said there was someone else in the picture – literally or he was just out of a breakup. I kept it zipped. She insisted he was “shy” and “sweet” but did agree that she would suss out where his interest lay on date four. Unfortunately it never happened.
After being like clockwork with the texts and calls, there was zilch for a few days so she decided to take the initiative and texted him on the Thursday morning. On Friday morning she gets an email which basically thanks her for the time they spent together, tells her what a great girl she is and how she’ll make some lucky guy happy (yawn), and that he’s been talking to his ex and has decided to give it another try.
She felt very hurt and used and was actually caught out by just how upset she felt although I think it’s the confusion of being set up and then feeling like you’re part of a shady setup. I was curious as to why her colleague was going on about this guy so much and what had stopped them being introduced for so long – a girlfriend. She admitted that she ignored her gut instinct to steer clear when her colleague mentioned that this guy had finally broken up…from a long distance relationship in South America. They were introduced via email and it took weeks for him to get in touch. Unsurprisingly, that same colleague can’t meet her eye and is doing his best to avoid her. So what can you learn from this dating experience?
1. A recommendation and introduction is great but you still need to do due diligence. While there are some people who have a great mentality about setting people up, we don’t all come from the same place and live by the same standards, and some, quite frankly have a weird agenda. I say this as someone who was set up with a guy that a friend said she would marry if she wasn’t married already – he was a pot smoking, Freddy Kreuger finger nailed, leering, outrageous twit. This ‘colleague’ seemed to think that my friend would be the perfect replacement for whatever woman this guy was fixated on abroad. I told her to say “Thanks for recommending me as an emotional airbag”.
2. Steer clear of recent breakups. You won’t always find out until you’ve started talking or been on a few dates, but if the breakup is recent, do yourself a favour and step away from the light. Remember your last breakup? Remember how you or they called, one or both of you was flip flapping having second thoughts? Awkward emails/texts were being exchanged? There might have been ‘talks’ and ‘debriefs’. The breakup may have originated out of frustration. Whatever – unfinished business is what a recent breakup looks like.
Unless you want to turn yourself into an emotional airbag to cushion the exit out of a previous relationship or a cloth to soak up the excess from their breakup, step away.
There should be at least a month, ideally two to three between relationships, otherwise you will be the emotional airbag that provides the bridge…to another relationship without you. If they tell you they’re over someone who they broke up with a week or two before, remember that…when they get themselves over you that quickly. It’s either that or they stay in relationships long past their sell by date and get over them before leaving… If you still feel like you want to stay, go very slowly.
3. When someone is interested, you know about it. You can be shyly interested – that’s different to being so reserved you wonder if you’re embarking on a new friendship.
4. When someone says “I think you guys would be really great together”, it’s not a bad idea to ask why especially if they keep insisting on it and won’t leave it be. Don’t be afraid to ask what their current relationship status is when they’re waxing lyrical about them.
5. If it takes weeks for them to get in touch after an introduction, I’d question how interested they are. When the boyf got my number from my friend, he had to go to America a couple of days later and made sure that he communicated that before he left, so I knew that I’d hear from him when he got back ten days later.
6. It’s good to branch out from your ‘type’ especially if you have a type that’s yet to yield you a successful, healthy relationship or creates a lot of pain for you. However make sure you’re not playing The Opposite’s Game and you still need to be self-aware, listen to your instincts etc.
7. Don’t deny, minimise, and rationalise information you are getting via someone’s actions. You are not that desperate for a date or a relationship that you need to talk yourself out of what your gut, eyes, and ears are telling you. You’ll just end up on fake dates and if it gets that far, a fake relationship.
8. A sudden change in contact where it recedes instead of increasing isn’t a good sign.
9. Someone who is fresh out of a breakup and already talking to their ex is probably going to be reluctant to ‘do’ anything that’s incriminating. Rather than Ross’s ‘We were on a break’ they can say Clinton’s ‘I did not have sexual relations’ or in this guy’s case I can imagine him saying ‘I didn’t even hold her hand or kiss her’. Nobody is that nice or that much of a saint so if they jump from your touch or won’t so much as show a drop of affection, something’s up.
10. You only find out the facts about someone via interacting. OK and listening and watching. You can have a great attraction, a hell of a lot of stuff in common, but ultimately there can be mitigating circumstances that get in the way of you moving forward into a relationship – think lurking ex, being emotionally unavailable, incompatible, not interested in a relationship etc. But that’s what dating is for – a discovery phase.
11. Don’t try to be the solution to anyone’s problems. It’s not good to peg yourself as someone to help others to get over their exes. You shouldn’t be looking to fill someone else’s shoes or competing. You are better than being an emotional airbag so just don’t go there.
Your thoughts?
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The relationship I’m in now, one which I consider healthy and progressing nicely at the 4 month mark, is as described above. After date 4 – him making the plans, him paying, all that courtship jazz I was completely puzzled why there seemed to be ZERO move-making. Not taking any opportunity or using any excuse to move in a little closer, hand holding or anything. In all fairness I wasn’t doing it either but my last relationship, where I seemed to make all the plans/moves, had me feeling like the next guy I dated had to at least make the FIRST move. Dates #1, 2, 3, and 4 had passed. I asked him what was going on and he said he wanted to but he was getting the platonic vibe from me and was really nervous about making a move on someone who probably just thought of him as a friend. But then….why would he be paying and treating this like dating?
Well, fast forward after my conversation with him and now 4 months later – it has progressed nicely. Emotionally available, we’re on the same page about our relationship and commitment, and seems to be a fair and balanced relationship but I almost threw in the towel after date 3. I’m not suggesting a woman stick it out like I did but I sure am glad I did.
Watch…now that I post this he’ll send me a text out of the blue saying he’s found someone else…. :p
Well the difference between your situation and hers is interest and clear communication. This isn’t a miscommunication or a shy guy being interested – he’s not interested. What your situation does demonstrate is if in doubt, ask. Enjoy your relationship!
How do you know if he’s fresh out of the relationship? You don’t always know his friends at the beginning and he’s not offering info.
Do you think that this includes him not wanting anyone to know that you two are spending time together?
Ask him. If you only ever waited around for others to volunteer information, you would put the responsibility for due diligence on others. Unless you’re ok with being a secret, I’d certainly take it as a code Amber
This is spot on as usual. I went a year with a guy who only ever held hands and cuddled. I kept thinking he was being ‘sweet’ and ‘shy’ and ‘showing respect’.
I tried to finish with him several times cos the relationship felt like it wasn’t going anywhere. Then, he’d chase like mad and dissuade me- he’d make loads of effort for a few weeks, then slip back to his old ways.
I eventually found out he’d been dating other women all along behind my back – while telling me not to! He’d also lied pretending his marriage had broken up a long time before, when in fact he was only a couple of months out of a 25 yr marriage.
I wish I’d trusted my intuition right at the start and got the hell out of there. I sensed something wasn’t right, but made excuses, rationalised, minimised exactly as you say.
What confused me was him repeatedly trying to dissuade me and telling me things would ‘fall into place’ if I hung around long enough.
It confuses the hell out of you. When someone lies consistently to you, you’re never going to know. But your intuition will always alert you even if you dont know exactly why you’re feeling on edge.
Because – I had an experience which was similar, I didn’t know what he wants (being friend or else). He was saying he cares, telling me how great I was, but the body language was missing. He was supposedly 2 years out of the previous relationship, but talking on and on about his ex. Luckily I took the hint and didn’t fall for him. But 2 years and still not over her? And a a guy, too. It seemed impossible to me.
gala
all over this blog are women not over their exes from two years ago. I think it’s the no. 1 problem I see, or maybe I’m attuned to it cos it took me three years to get over one of my exes. Who I never spoke about btw, so at least you got a heads up.
it’s not at all unusual.
gala
ps I’m not saying that you should wait five years between relationships, but if someone is talking about their ex a lot it doesn’t matter if the break up was x weeks/ months/ years ago, they aren’t over it. Or they’re using it as an excuse not to move on.
You did well – you saw what was in front of you; don’t second guess it, that way lies madness!
@Grace – How about 18 yrs? I would say that my ex not over his dead wife (ex-wife I might add) after this much time is quite sad!!
Natalie, thank you for mentioning the dangers of setups! Three of my most devastating recent experiences where actually setups (or kind of).
First, there was this guy with very controlling parents who very soon started trying to control me, too. This setup was done by my “best friend” who later turned out to be an assclown, too. She actually knew both about his close relationship with his parents and my problems with mine. Maybe she hoped to have some fun by watching the troubles resulting out of this relationship :-(…
Later on, she tried to pair me off with another guy with a very problematic family background. Actually, he turned out to be as EUM as could be. I guess I was very far from being emotionally available too. I now believe he has been abused as a child too, but neither of us had really dealt with the consequences at that time. Luckily, I decided to leave him alone quickly, even if she repeatedly urged me to give it another try.
The third story was the emotional predator who actually brought me to BR. I met him through a mutual acquaintance. This acquaintance was a seemingly nice, but somewhat weird, naive and childish guy in his forties (he once hinted that he had Asperger’s which might actually be true). At first, I thought: Someone who has been friends with this guy for 15 years (that’s what they told me) can’t be an evil person, right? I can only guess what happened, but I’ve got a clue that this AC intentionally used his naive friend to make women trust him.
I guess the lesson out of this is that setups can only be as good as the people who do them…
I forgot to mention that the last guy also “went through the motions” with me (taking me out frequently, almost always insisting to pay the bills) without ever trying to initiate physical contact (except an occasional hug). After a while, I thought we were meant to be only friends because he was (or claimed to be) depressed.
As mentioned earlier, he repeatedly urged me to rent a room in his apartment at a very low price (I was looking for a place to stay part-time). He promised me to nicely redecorate the room and even took me to a building supplies store and asked me to help him choose stuff.
However, a few minutes (!!!) after I finally agreed and gave him the rent for one month, he revealed to me that during all those weeks, he had tried to get his ex back (who was planning to marry someone else). He had never mentioned anything like this before. A few days later, I found out that he was also dating at least one other girl (too depressed to show any romantic interest in anyone? ha!). On this occasion, he tried to pair me off with a friend of his, which was the final straw for me. I cut off all contact with him (thanks to the support of Natalie and several BR readers!).
The shocking thing for me was to realize how hard he had tried to look like a very nice, caring, emotional person to whom I really mattered a lot, making me ignore the doubts I had about him right from the start. Why do people feel the urge to do this?
Another detail I forgot to mention. I think it might be important, because I read something similiar in somebody else’s comment in another thread. This ACs “best friend” (not the one who introduced us to each other, but the other guy he tried to pair me off with – unload to? – in the end) frequently mentioned how much the AC used to talk about me during all those weeks. This reinforced my impression that the AC really cared about me in a healthy way. I was very wrong, as it turned out.
Anyway, I should have known better. From my female friend who was quite an AC as well, I remember how much she used to talk about whoever her current “flame” was – even if she already had one or two other boyfriends at the same time (!). Talking a lot about somebody for a few weeks – unfortunately – means nothing.
EllyB – oh my goodness. I have had the same kind of ‘oh, you’d be PERFECT for one another’ routine from friends. They mean well, but I wish they hadn’t.
My most recent ex was also weird, childish and naive and probably Aspergers. Some people can have good relationships with Aspies; I am not one of them.
Years ago, I thought I might date women for a while, but I can assure you that the same ghastly matchmaking happens. A well-meaning friend told me about her friend J, who would be JUST PERFECT FOR ME. J, she said, had recently broken up with her longtime partner R, with whom she had been living for years. J was diagnosed as bip0lar and also had an illegal drug problem. But other than that …
I told my friend that quite frankly, I didn’t have a garage with enough room for that amount of baggage, but thank you anyway.
I also found myself wondering that if J had been a guy, would my friend have been so quick to fix me up with her? Or is there the underlying assumption that gay women are desperate enough to have a relationship with anyone?
Hmmm. So ladies, the grass isn’t any greener!
PJM: In my case, it wasn’t the AC who (probably) had Asperger’s, but the guy who introduced us to each other. I now think people with Asperger’s are – no matter how nice they might be – probably not the best matchmakers! Furthermore, in this case I think the AC intentionally used his friends naivety for his own ends, which seems quite nasty to me.
When it comes to romantic relationships with people with Asperger’s, should we really expect them to work if we don’t have Asperger’s ourselves? I’m not sure. It might just be another case of the “Florence Nightingale Syndrom” (although the real Florence Nightingale was probably quite tough and by no means somebody who constantly shortchanged herself). Or maybe we secretly feel “superior” and hope this might give us some safety in the relationship, which isn’t really fair towards the other person and probably won’t work in the end anyway.
Of course, I’m only talking about romantic relationships here. I’m quite sure it’s possible for people with Asperger’s and people without to socialize and have fun together and of course, to have good work relationships.
First… Where was this article 6 months ago?!? This article described the last guy I “dated” to a “t.” I played the airbag game with him for 3 months!
At first I billed him as shy, old fashioned, a nice guy etc. He was always making plans for us. At one point we were going out several nights a week. He always paid, he even purchase a couple of pricey bottles of wine for me when we went wine tasting. But he barely laid a hand on me. A tentative hug to greet me was all the action I got. Not even alcohol or a dark movie theater would make him budge. No hand holding, no flirting, and definitely no kissing. I was coming out of a double whammy from EUM to AC. The slow boat didn’t seem so bad. Everybody kept telling me he’s a “nice guy”, give him time.
His favored mode of communication was email… RED FLAG I know. But the emails were so detailed and so frequent I convinced myself that they were a replacement of sorts. I was already reading BR so the “lazy communication” thing was ringing in my ears. The link to his FB profile was in his email signature. I opted not to add him right away. I didn’t want to add another lazy alternative to the mix. After about 3 months I decided to add him on FB. Things were fizzling by that point and we were securely in the “friend zone”. Boy oh, oh boy the things I found. He was still in regular communication with his once long term live in gf (she moved out one month before we started going out). Her comments were all over his page. I even pieced together that he had made attempts to relocate his job to move near her. After a day or two as FB buddies I guess he figured the “jig” was up. I got an email stating that he’d had a “great time” with me over the last few months and hoped to continue as “platonic” friends.
He would ping me occasionally on FB/email. I waved him off with short responses. I didn’t feel like participating in his game anymore. He eventually de-friended ME from FB. LOL
In the end I learned to follow my gut. I knew something wasn’t right early on. I just chose to ignore it. I guess something was better than nothing.
JoeyGirl, thank you for that brilliant last sentence. Isn’t that the trap that all of us have fallen into – thinking that ‘something was better than nothing’?
And it’s true. Something IS better than nothing, but it depends on what you think ‘something’ is.
‘Something’ can be the love of good friends, family and workmates; helping out at a soup kitchen; reading a good book and having an early night; a spa weekend; catching up with the girls; browsing second-hand bookshops in blissful solitude, knowing that you don’t have to rush because someone else is tagging along.
But if you think that ‘someTHING’ must always equal ‘someONE’ – complete with stars, soft focus, loadsa sex and then fade out to endless bliss – then you’re seriously limiting your options. (Plus also being a bit delusional, when you think about it.)
And I think Natalie is absolutely right. If you learn to be independently happy, opening your eyes to the world around you and getting involved in things that YOU are interested in (and I had spent so long adapting myself to suit other people that I had to do a LOT of exploring to find out what I was actually interested in!), then you are much more likely to meet someone who really ‘gets’ who you are.
I think that kind of ‘someONE’ is a hell of a lot better than just ‘something, anything’. Worth waiting for, plus you have fun in the meantime.
Beautiful response! I completely agree with you about shifting the love to yourself, do the things you enjoy and that “something” will be much better than just “someone”, “anyone”!!!
Jeezis H. (-: This exact scenario, more or less, has been happening to me the last week! It’s my first stab, though a rather passive one, at dating since taking a dating hiatus of over a year. I was set up (by a coworker/married lady, who I think has a twinkle in her eye) with a guy who is two weeks out of a relationship. We’ve had only two dates – though rather long ones – and absolutely nothing physical, not even a hint. I was thinking what a gentleman he is! So different from my usual type! So nice! So respectful. Yet feeling, just like ya said(!), are we on a friend date here? And kind of wondering why he didn’t call or try to get together this weekend. I KNEW that two weeks is WAY too soon – and I knew not to get attached as he may very well be working on a reconciliation that I, in no way, would want to – nor could I, jeopardize or impact – and I’ve been down that painful road before (big surprise!) Thanks for the post! What incredible timing. I’m glad I had the wherewithall to not allow myself to develop feelings here, thanks, a great deal to this site. I’m gonna stay friendly.
Once I had a friend set me up with a guy she thought would be a good fit. Her thinking was since we liked the same music we should go out. This was years ago. I have enough sense now to go out with a guy for reasons beyond liking the same music. Anyway, I tumbled dumbly into this long-term on and off again “relationship” with a pot smoking, video game obsessed asshole who I later found out had a thing for MUCH older women. I’ve had a few other experiences where someone tried setting me up with someone. None of these ever turned out well.
Recently an acquaintance wanted me to meet her friend. She rattled on about how cute he was. I did meet him briefly. He is cute (though he smokes, eww). I kept my distance though. The catch is he is an alcoholic in rehab in another state. At times she talks about how “different” he is and that he’s “sensitive” and that he’s BIPOLAR. Then she came off with how if we met again and sparks flew……….bla bla bla wouldn’t it be so neat. I didn’t think to ask her why she thought we’d make a good match (I could probably guess) but was relieved when she informed me he now has a girlfriend. Phew. I’ve had zero luck in meeting people through friends/acquaintances/family members. BUT, I have kept my eyes on people I would not normally go for. Keeping my options open.
Bipolar snap! see my entry above!
I work in mental health, and I appreciate that people with mental health problems are just as entitled to relationships as everyone else, but I have actually been down that avenue before, and now I am NOT putting my hand up for it. It’s that deadly ‘Florence Nightingale’ thing.
I love this. Especially #10. It’s by interacting with your date that you learn anything about them. I know nowadays, texting makes us more accessible, but a relationship it doesn’t make. Interacting with one another is key for seeing if a person is the right fit for you.
Thanks for the post. It’s another good one.
Dear god, you’ve all been dating my ex husband. 😀
Too funny! 🙂
Interesting article, my last relationship was kind of a set up but without me knowing in a way. I never really noticed my X around the office. My female friend at work used think it was odd that i didnt do one night stands or just randomly date. She mentioned some guy once but as soon as she mentioned his age i said NO WAY and i forgot about it. He was younger. Then someone else who worked in their team did this weird thing a few months later. I was in the kitchen making tea and he was there with this guy, he introduced him in a way that was odd, talking him up, almost like this guy was going for an interview and i was doing the hiring. I sent the guy an email saying wow that was odd, what was that about? He replied back and so it began, we started communicating. At this point in time i didn’t realise this was the same guy my female friend had suggested and i handnt made the connection. After chatting with him for a few weeks and finding out he was younger, id decided he was great but i personally didnt feel comfy with the age gap. I spoke to a few friends who didnt have issues with age gaps, one of the friends i spoke to was the female who had previously try to set me up. I still handt made the connection by the way. Anyway she is engaged with a guy who has the same age gap. She spoke about how this guy who wanted to date me was really mature for his age and ranted about how great he was. She had known him for around 7 years. I spent more time thinking about it and i thought if the only thing stopping me is age maybe that was silly, how often to you meet people you actually want to date, well me anyway 🙂
So we dated and what proceeded was one of the most emotionally taxing, draining life sapping relationships with one of the most emotionally immature people i think i’ve ever met. When i went to my female friend after getting confused about his mood swings and wondering what on earth was wrong with him, outbursts and so forth. She told me this, “o.k so he is a little emotionally but he will never cheat on you or hurt you, you just need to work out the emotional part” Interestingly is that her partner is quite the same but with different moods. Mine was inconsistant, hot/cold, possessive, controlling,…
Another great post and has me thinking about something – how to know they are interested. With the assclown/narc, there was a period of time when I was positive he was interested. Didn’t doubt it for a second. Lots of attention, small gestures (that I later realized were the only kind I was going to get – but in the beginning seemed appropriate for the level of relationship). We, too, didn’t kiss for a long time but there was plenty of other physical signs of affection – hand holding, rubbing of shoulders, hugs etc. We slept together before we had sex, cuddling in front of the fire. That was what was so painful and confusing about it all. By my standards (admittedly $%#$% up, in hindsight), it sure looked and felt like he was interested. It was only months in, when I felt things should had progressed or grown but didn’t, that it all felt kinda wrong.
To this day, I still don’t know if there was someone else or a recent break up in his past. He certainly talked about exes constantly and there was one woman that I later learned was an ex, not just the “friend” he portrayed her as. What impact, if any, she had on the pseudo relationship he and I were having, I don’t know and don’t care.
Even as I type this, I realize I don’t care about him or want that relationship, but as I venture forward, looking for healthy love, I worry about my own ability to discern the good from the bad. When it started, at least, it sure looked to me like he was in it for real. I know a certain amount of that was my delusion and reading too much into things but there was more than a little there on his part. It has made me very gun shy, for fear of it happening again.
Debra – you’ll be OK. You seem to simply need some more time to recalibrate. I just had another go at lurve – first attempt post-AC, and it didn’t work out – after about 8 weeks. This post resonated with my experiences because I feel like the guy – who was recommended by loads of people, and is seen as an all-round lovely person – was not nearly as relationship-ready as others (and he himself) suggested he was, and I know I was, to some degree, a chase for him. But, the fact is, after a few days of feeling icky, I am now OK with it. I have simply chosen not to go into the whole drama, emotionally, of why he got involved when he wasn’t really up for something, and whether I should feel used or not. What I am focusing on is that he just didn’t know he wasn’t that capable. Indeed, he doesn’t really even know what a good, healthy relationship looks like, from my perspective. I am as certain as I can be that he believed that he was interested and open to me, but subconsciously has a different model of a good relationship in his mind. And, the simply truth is, I am, in this instance, far more clear about and comfortable with the fact that we were simply not compatible, and that’s OK. That happens. We didn’t hurt each other, I can still respect him (and myself), and I am willing to give ‘finding someone’ another go.
This experience was VERY different to the AC who – like yours probably – did feel something real with/for me, at least for a moment, and probably wanted things to be real too, but the real was marred by some serious tendencies towards bullsh*t, rage, avoidance, and self-fascination. So, I guess it doesn’t matter if he felt things were real between us, there was very little to allow that ‘reality’ to connect with mine in a practical way. (Whether there was an ex or a new person on the scene doesn’t matter – they’re all illusory – as embodiments of the past and the future.)
This probably doesn’t make you feel too much better, but I still think most guys (people) are good, and if they are crap, they are mostly crap for human reasons. I still think the true mind-screwy AC is a rare breed. You will probably be suprised how wise, smart, capable and strong you are. You’ll be able to sniff…
(whoops…continued reply to debra) …sniff out the ACs, and bare the EUs (who tend to show their true colours a little later). It’s unlikely you’ll ever be floored in the same way again.
We all have to move from hyper-vigilant to sensibly cautious to get anywhere in love. You’ll give it a go when you’re ready.
Hi Nat, since reading baggage reclaim, it’s totally changed my perception of guys and i can recognise when a guy is emotionally unavailable pretty soon. Your post is timely, i met a guy out friday night, he was very handsome, chatting to all the women in the bar but he kept coming back over to me. I was very attracted to him. We kissed and we went for food after the pub. He wanted me to go back to his hotel room, i told him straight out i’ve no interest in one night stands (he seemed horrified that i would think that was what he wanted!) but I walked to the hotel with him. When we were outside, he said he liked me blah blah, I said yeah i like you too.. he wasn’t making any move to ask for my number so I said why don’t we meet up at some time? (why not put it out there).
He then proceeded to tell me that I wouldn’t believe the trouble he has with his wife. He said they’re separated. He has three daughters with her. Actually i never asked him if he was attached or not….I assumed he was single up to this point.. I said to him “i understand if you’re not ready, i respect that”. He said that wasn’t it at all. But from how he spoke about his situation, it was clear he’s not ready to move on. Sure, no harm done.
Audrey
Good call. But we should be careful of thinking “he’s not ready to move on”. Not everyone is working towards a proper relationship. If they aren’t in one, it possibly/probably suits them just fine no matter how nice/flirty they are. When this guy said that wasn’t it at all, he was absolutely right. He meant “It suits me just fine being married. I get to pick up women and shag them, with no prospect of it getting serious.”
It’s not very friendly but before I do anything even remotely romantic with a man I’m gonna ask him if he’s married! Followed by, has he got a girlfriend.
Glad you dodged him.
Hey Grace, yes, i think you hit the nail on the head!
I must learn not to make assumptions – i assumed he was single (he has no ring on and acted like he was single). I think its gross that married guys are out there shagging around. Thanks, xoxo
.
Come to think of it, he didnt outright say he was separated, i assumed he was by how he was speaking about his wife… looks like i still have lots to learn!
Separated = still married in my book! Flush!
@Minky – yes, i agree separated does equal still married. a guy who’s separated may and can go back to his wife at anytime. He screamed too much emotional baggage at the end of the night.
Hi guys
Just my take on the whole separated vs divorced thingo, I have been separated for 4.5 years and we are just doing our divorce paperwork now. I would hope a nice bloke would not be put off me because the paperwork hasn’t been done, it’s more a case of neither of us have gotten around to doing it. We don’t want to get back together and never have since we separated, we get along ok these days because of our son but that’s it. No lingering thoughts of coulda-woulda-shoulda. He has a partner who seems nice and I’m still looking. So please don’t think that because someone hasn’t done the paperwork, they still have baggage from the relationship and maybe give them a chance?
Kirsten, thanks for sharing but I actually think you’re highlighting *why* people are cautious of being involved with long-term separated people. It’s your prerogative to take as long as you like to file but to expect another to be party to your slowness and not ‘getting round to it’ *is* off-putting. I feel sorry for your husbands partner.
If you’re not involved with anyone else, fine but as someone who has been privy to thousands of comments and emails from people dealing with long-term separated people, slow divorcees are slow for a *reason* and do not consider the impact of their actions or lack of.
I have to agree separated still equals married in my book however I have become friends with a separated guy (4 years).
I have been absolutely clear on my boundaries that it won’t be anymore than a friendship even if he does get a divorce. I’m unsure however if I am using him as an emotional airbag to take the edge of the last EUM I dated I don’t know how to tell since I’m not attracted to this guy but have a suspicion he might be to me. Any advice ?
No harm done, Audrey, because YOU kept your head – well done!
He was TOTALLY trying it on – no man invites a woman up to his hotel room to admire the view. If you’d been someone with commitmentphobia, no boundaries and low self esteem, you’d have gone up to his room and slept with him (like I have done on past occasions). So this is living proof that you ARE on the right track and have your boundaries in place and your self-esteem cookin’.
(And if you had slept with him, no way would you have been the first one he’d cheated on his wife with – no matter how much ‘his wife doesn’t understand him’. I bet she understands him only too well!)
Timely post. So I need timely advice.
Shortly I will be seeing the man who introduced me to the only AC I ever dated. The AC was then still getting over his ex, who dumped him several months before after he pulled a disappearing act on her (he didn’t show up to a holiday party and had no reasonable excuse for not showing up). The AC got back together with his ex 2 years later, and married her 2 years after that. He and his wife and their 2 kids run in the same circles as I do.
But the friend who introduced us I have not seen in years and years. In fact, the very last time I saw him he set up a time to see me professionally (curiously, just after I ran into the ex-AC!! Hmmmm…) and, during the context of that meeting, pretended he didnt know I went out with the AC (TOTAL B.S.!), saying, “I tried to introduce you to x, but [puts palms in air]…” I then told him that we did, in fact, go out, but that the AC didn’t know what he wanted, so it ended. (Then, funny enough, this man told me, “Well, he is now with y”–y being the ex-gf…which is funny b/c how did he know that I knew y, especially when he “didn’t” know that I dtaed his friend?! See how these jerks run together!)
So I want some advice from NML as to how to handle running into this guy. What if he makes a snide remark? What if he tries to get info from me as to the AC? Help!
To be honest you can make this as big or as small as you want to. It would be rather juvenile on either of your parts to still be going on about this guy when so many years have passed and you’ve each moved on with your respective lives.
1) Snide remark is either ignore or ask ‘What did you mean by [repeat what he said]?
2) You don’t have to give any information. It’s just a conversation. There are two of you in it. No you don’t speak to him, no I don’t know about him and then change the subject.
If he keeps pushing, politely make your excuses and leave or move away to speak to someone else.
“3. When someone is interested, you know about it.”
Bingo. This is all we need to remember and internalize. I like the article this links to, the 30 signs that he’s not/half interested. Beautiful. Hits the nail right on the head.
I think that he and the AC do not even associate with each other anymore (based on the AC’s wife’s request, I am sure!), though they used to be best friends and have many mutual friends and acquaintances.
I have been planning on saying nothing, and even avoiding talking to and ignoring this guy. He did me no favors in this whole thing. I don’t care how long ago it was–I was part of a shady set-up, and (very likely) used. See above: this guy sets me up with a guy he knows was trying to get back with his ex, then plays dumb as if he didn’t know we went out, then says, “[AC] is with y now”–which shows that he knew that I knew y, which he wouldn’t know unless the AC told him! What’s up with all of that? Shows a lot of nerve, to say the least!
Oh, and for the women out there, as to the AC’s role in all of this as to me particularly: yes, the AC was VERRRRY interested at the beginning. VERRRRRY attentive. But he did show red flag behavior (including no physical affection prompted by him after the first-date-kiss). And his friend was just as AC and EUM as him! Point is, they run together, ACs and their buds!
What I have learned from the whole experience is to look out for yourself, to watch your back!
Thx for the response.
Used,
If what I’ve seen you post throughout the years is true, it appears you live in a small gossipy town where things that happened five, ten, twenty years ago are still harbored over. And you haven’t necessarily been able to rise above the drama.
Make new friends. Think about new things. Be peaceful.
Good luck.
So in November my exEUM contacted me after about a year and a hald of NC. I answered. I didn’t tell anyone for a long time because I was so embarrassed.
I went home in December for Christmas. I was home for three weeks, and anyone in the world can be nice for three weeks.
He kept in regular contact when I went back to school (mostly through text) and would always answer my calls (which used to be infrequent).
But I felt very manipulated by him and knew I was being used. Every time I would talk or chat with him I would have this achy feeling in my heart.
One day I knew I couldn’t do it anymore. This was the first time where I ended things and that things ended calmly. I haven’t spoken to him in two months and have blocked him from communicating with me by every means I know.
I feel like I have to be extra on my guard because we have had the type of relationship we’re we will go a year without talking and he’ll pop back up.
I feel better and worse when he’s not in my life but mostly better. Wish me luck on keeping him a memory.
Jupiter23, keep up the good work! I have been there too, the last time I took my ex-AC back I was vaguely embarassed as well. He also loved to pop up again and again, to be nice for a month or two and then pull the ol’ Houdini. Keep doing NC, I swear it will get easier and easier as time goes on. In the meantime, do nice things for yourself, remind yourself as often as possible why you are fantastic, surround yourself with good people and I promise you when he attempts the inevitable comeback he will not seem like an attractive prospect in the least. Hugs 🙂
Hi all, this post is poignant for me, and would appreciate your thoughts about ‘making the moves… eg if YOU are not sure’… Well, to recap my background which I think is important, I’m in my late twenties, had one on-off tumultuous relationship in my early twenties which left me heartbroken. Took me 3 years to move on and finally meet/ feel attracted to anybody again to want to date/ have a relationship with. I am told I fall into that category of ‘succesful/ attractive/ why single’ but have battled with low self esteem which I have been working on and now seem outwardly confident. When I did meet such a person I instantly fancied like hell and he was successful and educated, I felt sparks, out mutual friends were gunning for us to get together and then really went for it, did all the chasing and eventually ‘got my man’… I then had the whole situation blow up in my face even though it got off to a great start (really thought he ‘was the one’). What followed; all the EUM stuff/mind games, to the point I called it off quite abruptly after 3 months of dating, and then regretted the decision and pined over the assclown for months! Know I am silly for taking so long for such a short relationship, but I really felt sucked in… What prolonged the moving on was sporadic contact from him (me thinking he does miss me, will call any time now to suggest meeting up… yet the words/ actions never happened and I saw it for what it was: ego stroke for him), so finally went NC for last three months (he also did not contact me). In this time he I have discovered through good old fb that he has got a ‘girlfriend’ (a status I never got). Now one thing that was undeniable was what I did have with this guy was fireworks, I could.not.wait for him to make a move on me, I was overwhelmed with attraction. We never actually slept together, as that was a big deal to me. But I know for a fact I was attracted to him on many levels, especially physically…
Recently I have started dating again, and recently met a ‘great on paper guy’, who is quite handsome (not like my exEUM, but certainly conventionally good looking), we have had 3 dates this month but the guy has only text me inbetween to arrange the next date. No…
oops, too long,…. to finish; this guy I’ve been on three dates with. we get on inasmuch as two colleagues from the same profession and family background would but I don’t really feel like I’m getting much from him, seems quite introverted. I can talk to most people, and yet the meetings seem to lack any real chemistry. I don’t really have any desire to have a move made on me, I really do need to feel a connection before anything. I thought maybe I just need time to get to know him and attraction may build. I can count on one hand the number of times I have been physical with a guy so that side of relationships is a big deal for me ( don’t know if that makes me odd!)…. He wants to go on another date, I really am feeling unsure because of all this…. It would be prety awkward if he made a move unlesswe really start clicking/ chemistry happens from date 4! it seemed like he may have tried to make a move when he walked me to my car last time, but i sidestepped the issue before it was obvious though i sensed he may have ben thinking of doing something. It seemed out of context given our contact lack of flirting or suggestion I wanted him to make a move. Or is just dating a natural suggestion you definitely want to progress? I know dating is meant to be a discovery phase and does not equal relationship, but to me, the physical stuff doesn’t happen unless I am thinking I want a relationship either. If I am really not feeling it, should I just not go? Or is it ok to wait for a move?
I just am trying to rethink things as when i have been blinded by chemistry it has been with very good looking and playertype guys who are mainly just niterested in a physical relationship and dress it up as wanting more; then when it doesn’t happen I get burned badly as for me to do anything says a lot.
Thanks
Maya, It sounds like you don’t have enough information about how you feel and if you want more of your time spent with this man. Unless you were really hard up to date anyone it seems that you are doing well just dating this man with an open mind and not being overwhelmed by an attraction is not a bad thing. However, I can relate to “just not feeling it”…yet it seems that something attracted you or you would not have gone out with the man. If you enjoy this man’s company what is wrong with ya’ll being friends? It doesn’t have to be a romance. He could also be slow to show physical attraction in any obvious way…the fact that he wants to date you seems that he is interested in a relationship. Remember, once you even kiss it’s hard to go back to non-physical. I, for one, would rather get to know a man without the chemicals flying while I learned more about who he is…
Oh, by saying that his dating seems to indicate that he wants a relationship did not mean that he wants one with you, it’s that he’s seeing if ya’ll have the compatibility for possibility of perhaps forming one…or he could be a player or EUM… but time would tell these things and you have the tools now to decipher many things…it’s an excellent time to discover if you share values and common ground…IF you wish to pursue gaining this information by going out with someone who isn’t “ringing your bells”…
BUT: the texting only to arrange dates should be raising your radar…Nat says it’s a big red flag…
Thanks for the advice ladies! Well I did meet him again, and we had a nice time. He was a bit more engaging and perhaps he takes longer to warm up. All that said, I can’t say we’ve clicked, feel like I do most of the entertaining on the date, but there is something attractive about him. Can’t put my finger on it. Anyway, he made a move as predicted and I was a bit shellshocked by it, half reciprocated and pulled away! Well he wants to see me again and I feel like maybe it will be hard to go back to no moves yet I think it would make it easier to decide if we are actually compatible or not…. Hhhm watch this space! If I say that and he backs off I guess I’ll know if he is really interested in getting to know me or not.
Thanks for the tip, I would just like to add first impressions last sometimes. It’s what you do on your first meeting or date so better make an impression that would get a person interested or even hooked on you.
I disagree with the amount of time it takes a man to make a move I was in a long term relationship where the man didn’t make a move until I confronted him about it on date eight. My sister (38) is now in a serious relationship with a, man (48) who waited until date seven. I think your due diligence means including some patients on this issue.
No problem with patience Anne but I won’t be suggesting to anyone that they ‘confront’ about not making a move which is very conflict led.