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This episode of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions was inspired by a conversation I had with a friend who is so frustrated about her previous relationships and not being in the relationship she wants yet, but then she was back with one of her exes again. I pointed out to her that it was like being in a restaurant and saying that you want to order something–in her case, a healthy, loving, lasting relationship–and then going back and forth with the waiter changing her mind about what she’s ordering! This then prompted her to point out that she’s been wanting a slice of cake but settling for a bite, and then I pointed out that it was more like crumbs… Such a funny conversation that prompted me to go way deeper on the subject of settling, namely, being OK with crumbs.
I talk about:
- Why we can’t hang around at the shallow end of the pool and be surprised that we’re not having experiences more reflective of the deep end
- How the Some-Crumbs-Is-Better-Than-No-Crumbs mentality shows up in our lives whether it’s that we accept sub-par relationships because we’re afraid to be alone or we, like one listener did, run up debt to avoid having to ask our flatmate to pay their bills lest they decide to move out and we don’t have a friend
- The two questions we need to ask ourselves: Where did I learn to do without? and Where did I learn to make do?, and what these actually mean
- Why sucky relationships are like wearing those threadbare and busted undies, bras and socks
- Why having our needs met starts with us meeting our needs
- Why we go to the proverbial restaurant and have the option of ordering anything off the menu, but then ask for a salad and tap water
- Why trying to get what we want as a ‘fast food’ option leads to our own disappointment in the form of a relationship where all that glitters turns out not to be gold
Links mentioned in the episode (and some extras)
- Episode 84 where I talk about discernment
- Episode 82 where I talk about ‘closing the gap’
- Janet Murray’s Soulful PR podcast where she talks about image and how what we wear affects how we feel about ourselves
- Boxpark Croydon – If you spot us there, come and say hello!
Next stop
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Listener questions can be emailed to podcast AT baggagereclaim DOT com and if there’s a topic you’d love me to talk about, let me know!
Nat xxx
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This kind of material… And your 100 days…is literally recalibrating my brain…from abandoned child…to high self esteem woman…I cannot thank you enough…it is even improving my looks and posture!! X
The best part about healing is spotting shady stuff in others we never knew to look for, like them taking loaves but giving crumbs, future faking, and being groomed to become their standby girl or other woman. Also, we learn to spot great potential but weed out that which can ruin it.
Recently, I started hanging out with a woman whose character and values I admired. We shared common interests like art, organic foods, politics, humor and other things that might bode well in a potential romantic relationship.
However, she has a long distance partner and I said from the top that I don’t share–I am strictly a one on one who deserves the same. I said platonic can be just as good as romantic, as long as there is honesty, respect and good boundaries, and in that sense I hoped we could become great friends.
I went on to “mindfully practice” doing and saying nice things –but I never blurred the edges or led her to believe I was buttering her up for eventual seduction. I was just trying to behave in a manner that I thought would help me become more emotionally available and attract a better suited romantic partner one day.
I found I had to keep convincing her that my sweetness and charm were platonic and had no-stings-attached, and then reminding that she was not available, therefore neither was I.
Truth be told, I hadn’t even wondered “what if” with her because that no-dating-married rule has been etched into my brain. Plus she was not really my type physically, so I never had to work through any big sexual attraction or fantasies.
But she kept saying she thought I had a hidden agenda, and my secret plan was to win her away from her LDR. I told her what my core values were too many times to have to keep repeating myself, so I started to wonder why she kept thinking that. Was she projecting or what?
She often said everyone hits on her, so that was a clue. Then she started running hot and cold, and it felt like game playing and drama to try to illicit a response from me. Playing house or pretending doesn’t interested me, especially with platonic friends.
Anyway, we were talking on the phone a few weeks ago and she started saying she believed in things that were the opposite of what she said months earlier, especially things that we agreed were important to us. She agreed with me about fidelity being important to her, at first, but now she said she liked the ideas of both polyamory *and* celibacy.
(Huh?)
She also said she was planning a weekend outing with someone she knew I’d shoot if it was legal.
It seemed like she was trying to convince me how incompatible we were, even as friends, and also piss me off about her outing with that amoral reprobate. After an hour of this bizarre conversation, I got a bit huffy and said “What are you doing? What’s your game plan here?”
She responded in a way that escalated the discomfort for us both. I said something like, “This is bullshit. I don’t know what you’re doing, but I feel like I don’t know who I’m talking with.”
She took umbrage with my tone said she believed it was “time for us to take a little break.” She didn’t say whether she meant the phone call or the friendship, but I didn’t ask–I was glad to get off the phone.
Now it’s been two or three weeks without any contact, and after writing a couple of long, unsent letters, I realized I didn’t really care if it ended or not so my continued analysis was wasting my time.
I’m starting to realize that sometimes people change, things just end and I don’t always get to know why or find closure with the other person.
But one thing is for sure–I’m not going to start getting into girlfriend fights with a woman who’s not my girlfriend.
Does anyone have any insight into this weird behavior? I am curious, but not enough to ask her.
She just enjoyed the ‘attention’ and her perceived interest from you. Her mentioning ‘everyone hits on her’ is the clincher. She likes to think everyone hits on her when the reality is probably the opposite.
Don’t waste your time in her. Game player.
Problem is it doesn’t feel like it when you go on breakup sites and you’re about the 2% who never hear from their ex. It hurts that someone can move on so easily.
Hi, I am part of that 2% too. It does rankle. But the outcome is the same. It wasn’t meant to be. We were mismatched so does it need to be drawn out toing and froing…short pain or loooooong paaaaiiiin? It didn’t help me though that he turned into (on Facebook) best boyfriend ever within days our demise. My perspective now is that he showed me that ambiguous, bordering on sleazy, casual arrangements are disappointing and certainly not for me, glad that lesson is over. Chin up and keep reading here, Nat is a life saver.
Did you listen to Podcast #83, They Just Want Your Attention, They Don’t Want Your Heart? Sometimes NOT being contacted is a blessing in disguise. That way you can heal and move on and not be stuck in limbo land and being messed around.
Never got an apology even years later, for being dumped out if the blue, by text, saying I was just being used all along.
That is very grim. I feel for you. But this site works wonders. Stay on it and heal!! Xxx
Same here. Years of memories and fun with some rollercoaster moments. His moods, narcassistic ways… a few days ago he just left. He wasn’t going to give me any heads up but I figured it out. Now he won’t communicate with me at all. I admit to having crumbs with him a lot , and this may have been for the best but it still stings. I think about him and try to refocus my thinking. I don’t want to go through this pain again- he crushed my trust.
This is kind of the first time I have posted on here… Lately I have battling with myself over this some crumbs over no crumbs topic…
A month ago I went NC with a guy that I was going out with for 3 months, he had recently broken up when we met (red flag) and I would see him once ever two weeks which bothered me and when I spoke to him about it he said he now realised that he wasnt ready for anything serious so I went NC
Unfortunately I maintained NC for 3 weeks then broke it and by that time he wanted nothing to do with me said he met someone else…
Now I feel like maybe I should have accepted his crumbs of attention until he was ready.. I cant stop rehashing this whole thing in my mind and 2 weeks has gone by since he said he met someone else and I feel like maybe I was to hasty? I am so afraid that I would never get the relationship that I want and maybe crumbs is the best I can do.. Just need some words of encouragement 🙁
I just seem cant seem to get off the EUM train
Hi Ohso,
Sounds to me like you did the right thing; saw where the EUM train was headed, got off that EUM train before it derailed and sadly got back on a bit further down the line. Perhaps you needed that confirmation that he was what said he was: unavailable! You don’t know if the girl he is seeing has accepted his terms of ‘crumbs’. You did the right thing and need to give yourself some credit for that.
Thanks so much Slowly.
Deep down I know it would have ended anyway, I kindat tried to save myself but I’m so not used to doing the right thing for me that I keep feeling like maybe if I had just held on a little longer… Well it’s done and he has someone else so I’ll have to live with that.. wish I could fast forward the healing process and get on with my life and forget but it does not work like that… I just feel alone as all my friends have their families and I’m 33 and no prospects.. this thing called life
Sorry you are feeling a bit down about it but I am a couple of decades older than you and I wish I had access to Natalie’s wisdom when I was 33!! I have tried to see if maybe Nat was wrong about unavailables and thought that I would give the last couple of guys the benefit of the doubt. Doh! Another 2 years wasted! I really believe NOW that when a man tells you he doesnt want a relationship, isnt ready, cant give you what you want he is telling the truth. Dont waste time testing out Nat’s theories. Spend the recovery time on you. Find out what you want and need. Explore some interests.Watch Nat’s youtube, feels like she is a friend giving great advice. You are worth it!!
What if the alternative to crumbs is starvation? Situation: female in 40s with Asperger’s has just lost only friend, who was a married man in 30s, after he is seemingly “caught” emailing by someone at his end (his pregnant wife, maybe his mother, unsure) in late May. Went a month with no messages whatsoever from him, after months of contact throughout the day via phone calls, online chats, texts, etc. (he lives far away; reservations were made to meet at a hotel last weekend and spend weekend together). Then an email message arrives to inform me he must be no contact with me forever, because he does not want to lose his marriage and newborn child. This from someone who had reassured me for months that it would be no problem to remain best friends, always, regardless of anything else in life. Now I have no friends, no contact with anyone, and am unable to make connections with people (Asperger’s will do that). Our friendship got explicit and romantic in tone, although not sexual and no sexual photos. I feel so lonely and am tired of reading that I must”love myself” when others dislike or ignore me, “take care of myself” when the one person in my life with whom I ever had a real bond/relationship has demonstrated he does not care anymore. I am actually smart and good-looking, without a self-esteem problem, but a true loner. This person was an exception to a lifelong rule. I feel crippled without him and am having trouble thinking about much besides plans about self-harm, etc. Yes, I see a psychologist and am in a therapy group. Neither is a substitute for a real relationship. I love/d this man. Crumbs would be better than starvation. For some of us, there is no cake forthcoming.
Lost,
It’s not easy to feel that way. If your psychologist isn’t helping with this situation, can you find a new one?
It is possible to get over this man. It’s unfortunate that he treated you like he did, but his behaviour clearly shows who he is. You dodged a bullet, whether it feels that way now or not.
I used to think crumbs were all that there was too. But I’ve found it’s not starvation on the other side of it. Instead it’s being able to give yourself what you need instead of looking for nourishment from others. That road doesn’t end well. You need to get to a place where you know you have your own back. It might be tiring to hear that, but it’s repeated often because it’s true.
It’s never easy to make good friends, especially as we get older. But if you want a friendship, skip over the men. Try for a good female friend. Put yourself out there in the world. See what you can find. And why not start with an Asperger’s social group? There might be others in a similar situation to you that you can talk to and find solutions with there.
This is very true – I lost sight of ME. He used my trust and kindness for many years and I accepted it as the entire package. What I got from him was crumbs and I thought that was “normal”. His excuses and future faking should have received some sort of award. He would lead me on making me think he was going to do this or that … he had me hooked in his back pocket. I would even get guilt trips if I didn’t reply to his texts when he wanted me to talk to. I could write a novel about how I helped him with so many things. The things he helped me with — ha! Smallest list ever . He crushed me, to the point of my health suffering. I wanted off of the rollercoaster ride and I didn’t care how. Well he got upset with me because I forgot to tell him something that he felt was important. This was over 3 weeks ago. I have not heard a word since. Nothing. It’s all a game and I’m sure at some point he will pop back up but do I really want crumbs still? He’s not that special. He will just keep doing this …
This has to be one of the best Podcasts ever for me. I found myself saying, “yes” out loud for most of the podcast. While describing being in restaurant and you could order ANYTHING off the menu, I found myself already thinking, “Ugh, I would probably order the cheapest thing ever with a glass of water.” And then that was EXACTLY what you said!!!! Well, not anymore! I want the most expensive meal, the most expensive dessert, and the most expensive drink because that is what I deserve!!!!
My parents would never describe themselves as neglecting me because I had a roof over my head, food on the table, and clothes on my back with shoes on my feet. But I was basically left alone and raised myself. I have entered relationships trying to get the attention and validation I yearned for as a child. I neglected myself as an adult trying to please my way into a loving relationship. What really resonated with me was when you listed the “complaints” of EU relationships and tying it back to where you have neglected yourself in those areas. Bottom line, I need to stop neglecting myself. When I stop neglecting myself, I will no longer find this behavior acceptable in interpersonal relationships.
Thank you for this amazing podcast (I have already listened to it at least 5 times).
Hi Natalie,
Thank you for this episode. Would you consider devoting an entire podcast to the topic of emotional neglect? When you touched on this subject and provided some examples, I had a bit of an “a-ha” moment (as Oprah would say). I’d really like to learn more about this and to recognize how it has affected me and what I need to be mindful of/work on as a result.
Just discovered Baggage Reclaim and its already made such a big impact on me and the way I think. Thank you so much for this.