It can feel very bewildering and even pressured when we are wounded by something that has happened but somebody is questioning why we haven’t moved on from it yet, or they’re struggling to fathom our response to whatever happened.
It might be that they’re comparing what they think would be their own reaction with ours, or it might be that they’re technically the cause of the issue and feel that they’ve said or done what is needed for us to move on.
It might be one of those situations where they’ve, for instance, apologised but what they really want is for us to hurry the hell up and move on so that they can delete the issue from their memory bank. In situations like this, especially if you’re inclined to be a pleaser or certainly inclined to invalidate your own feelings and perspective, you may put you under pressure to move on and forget. You may feel that you’re being ‘too slow’.
In reality, we don’t all ‘bounce back’ from conflict, criticism, rejection, loss and disappointment at the same rate. Hell, some of us don’t ‘bounce’ at all and it can be a painful process to navigate the myriad of emotions and thoughts that we may be contending with in the aftermath of something happening.
Each person’s pace is their own.
We are all unique and no matter what we believe that we may share in common with a person, there are very specific individual and personal reasons that influence our recovery.
Ten people could all be in a room when they all experience something traumatic but they will all respond – so they will think, feel, act and ultimately recover – differently.
Our ‘bounceback rate’ as such is influenced by factors including:
Whether we tend to bury, run from, hoard or deal with our feelings. Are we living in the past, on the run, bashing ourselves with the feelings and reliving the pain over and over again, or allowing ourselves to feel and move on from a feeling without judging or censoring it?
The depth of how much we feel. The more we suppress and repress is actually the more we manifest the pain in other ways. It leaks out and shows up somewhere in our day to day experiences. Yes we’ll feel it intensely when we allow ourselves to feel all of our feelings but that helps in the grieving process. It’s important to note though that people who avoid their feelings or who anaesthetise them with people, things or even substances, can appear to ‘bounce back’ but are delaying and in effect stockpiling their pain. That’s why we shouldn’t feel so envious when a person for example, flits from relationship to relationship with their feet barely touching the ground as they exit one bed to another.
Our past experiences. If we’ve experienced similar before then we’re either going to be better equipped to handle whatever has happened or we’re going to feel as if whatever has happened has compounded the previous experiences. Part of what can affect our recovery is whether an experience activates old wounds – we may be transported back to being a certain age. It might open the floodgates for a loss that we either thought we’d dealt with or thought we’d manage to bury.
Prior experiences with the person in question. This might be the straw that broke the donkey’s back or it may feel as if we’ve been blindsided. Or we may feel that we can trust them and move past it together.
Our reasoning habits. Taking into account our previous experiences, whatever our typical belief response has been when we’ve experienced conflict, criticism, loss etc, has a great deal of influence over how we respond.
How invested we were in a predicted outcome. If we had it all mapped out in our mind, we’re likely to experience an imagination hangover as all of that plotting didn’t leave much room for the eventuality of uncontrollable factors. We may have got too caught up in the picture we painted in our mind.
Whether we’re stuck on entitlement. Sometimes we inadvertently get stuck on where we feel robbed over a predicted outcome because we feel that we met all of the conditions that we thought would yield a certain outcome and yet it wasn’t so. Sometimes part of the reason why it’s hard to regain our mojo as such is that if we’ve not typically felt that happy with ourselves and we’ve spent a lot of energy trying to please others and be “enough” or “perfect”, it can feel like a real kick in the teeth when it feels as if we’ve practically broken our backs and spontaneously combusted into a doormat willing to meet every need and desire and yet despite us ‘meeting the conditions’, we’re still not happy or it hasn’t worked out.
How much self-compassion, if any, we have. Quite simply, the kinder we are to ourselves, the better our recovery. We have to be consciously kind though and that means interrupting negative self-talk and intervening when we engage in destructive or at the very least unhelpful behaviour and thinking.
Whether perspective is involved. If we experience something on day 0 and on day 365, we have exactly the same perspective or even worse on it, it’s safe to say that our recovery will be slow and eventually regret will kick in. Day 0’s outlook represents our understanding at that time and growth comes with perspective. We have to be willing to change the narrative especially if it’s very harsh on us and keeping us stuck in a cycle of blame, shame, guilt and fear. Perspective is also influenced by whether we discuss what happened with someone we trust and/or professionals, whether we judge whatever has happened as a permanent statement of our future, and in fact, how many judgements we make about us and life.
As a rule of thumb, it’s safe to say that if someone does you wrong, they don’t get to dictate the speed at which you recover from it. If anything, riding your arse like Zorro to harangue you into moving on, is only compounding whatever has caused the hurt in the first place.
It’s not about bearing grudges – quite the opposite. You have a right to give you a chance to feel your feelings and to air your thoughts on something. It’s like, “Can I have a frickin moment to just be?” It’s not about wanting to hold onto something; it’s about recognising your uniqueness including your vulnerabilities. It’s about giving you a chance to understand why you have responded as you have including why something has hurt in the way that it has, so that you can grow your awareness, take care of you and learn from the insights gained.
That’s not about taking ownership of their behaviour but it is about recognising that recovering and yes, ‘bouncing back’ from something does have a great deal to do with your relationship with you.
It’s all very well kissing and making up with somebody but then if you privately feel contempt for you for having made up or you feel as if you’re slowly dying inside because you’re denying your hurt ‘yet again’, that’s further damaging your relationship with you.
As humans many of us are inclined to want to bounce back and move on as quickly as possible. We want to speed through the ‘bad parts’, the ‘bad feelings’ but we need to respect the process because we learn a great deal from these and we get stronger too.
Everyone bounces back at different rates. Don’t apologise for not being Teflon-coated or for not having the tenacity of a cockroach after a nuclear bomb. The more you keep prodding at you about when you think you ‘should’ be over something is actually the harder it is.
I’m not suggesting that we all dine out on feeling bad and string it out for as long as possible but it’s about time more of us acknowledged that there are very specific experiences that have contributed to who we are today and why we respond to certain things as we do. When we bring awareness into the equation, we can actually have a far greater hand in helping ourselves to feel better and the knock on effect is that we will recover better each time from life’s inevitable knocks.
Be kind to you.
Your thoughts?
I will be back on New Year’s Day the 5th and I hope you all managed to not only survive but even enjoy the festive season. See you in 2015 xxx
Nat, this was awesome! I would also add that ones current situation, options or lack thereof, support network or lack thereof, also has a profound effect upon how fast one can get over pain. This past year I have really resented folk that tell me to give up, accept alone for life or to settle for someone awash in red flags. I cringe when many here said that I shouldn’t grieve much for my dad, that his path was clear for a long time and he really didn’t approve of me much. Hello? He was still my dad, he was still the last of family. Yep, we had our differences, practically lived in different cultures, but he was trying to be the best parent he was able to be. At the time of his final illness and passing, I needed to be tge tough decision, take charge person as there was no one else. Its now, during the holidays, that Ive cried over his death even though he absokutely hated the hidays and never participated. Pondering the loss of my ex husband, runner dude, the at work AC, vs. Trauma dude really has made clear that when you had a strong emotional attachment, still deal with the person regularly, shared values that you’ve never been able to share since, it hurts for years vs. someone who raised red flags from the start and whom therefore you never attached to. In theory I should be grieving the loss of trauma dude as it was a few months ago, rather than the rest who were 1 to 10 years ago, but it’s been the exact opposite. Next year, I get to feel what I feel, speak my truth no matter what and if others judge harshly, that’s on them. Happy New Years.
ReadyForChange
on 31/12/2014 at 12:39 pm
‘Next year, I get to feel what I feel, speak my truth no matter what and if others judge harshly, that’s on them. Happy New Years.’
Awesome.
Noquay, please know that – with all your pain – you are a great inspiration. You are someone I would be honoured to meet.
Happy New Year to you x
Noquay
on 02/01/2015 at 2:24 pm
Thanks, you really made my morning 🙂
Revolution
on 31/12/2014 at 6:10 pm
Noquay,
You have such a lovely, open, tough, spirited heart. I just love to read your posts even though my time on BR has been spotty at best lately. I love reading your thoughts. Though my life experiences are sometimes different, I relate to a lot of what you write. I’m so glad that you don’t buy into the “old maid” propaganda. As Louise Hay says, when someone says something about their life and it’s negative, she says to herself internally, “That may be true for you, but it’s not true for me.” With your mindset, it looks like 2015 will be a banner year for you. Or at least a healing, more peaceful one than 2014. I wish you all the best, my dear.
Noquay
on 02/01/2015 at 2:40 pm
Thanks Revs. Ironically, I met with my boss on New Years Eve and asked work wise, where are we headed? He assured me that my projects will go on regardless of whether I stay or go and either way, he wishes me well and understood how hard it is for someone like me to live here (he doesn’t know about the AC but knows something is very wrong at work). It was the first time anyone there really acknowledged my intellect, value, creativity, service to the institution. That was a valuable gift. A good way to begin the New Year. Hope you have a great year too.
Brenda K
on 02/01/2015 at 7:23 am
Yo, ‘Quay!
Who in the fk said you shouldn’t grieve much for your dad?! Jesus on crutches…I’m sorry you had to listen to that.
Were you able to get anything done? I mean that lovingly (NOT judgingly 😉 ) because I didn’t do shit. Even with all this time off for the holidays I boycotted, after shipping the husband back to Japan permanently on the 26th, I’ve just been having a meltdown instead of working on the house and cleaning up the mess and getting prepared hit the ground running in 2015 as I’d planned.
Oh and you’re absolutely right about presence or absence of a support network affecting one’s ability to bounce back. That is what enabled me to get to the other side of this thing: friends and family helping tow me through it!
Wishing you a miraculous 2015 🙂
Noquay
on 02/01/2015 at 3:11 pm
A number of folk said this sort of thing: colleagues, a local ex (expected as he didn’t give a damn when his own mom died), a supervisor. Guess some folk are emotionally dead. Was thinking about this over the holidays; the reason I am educated, not saddled with kids I didn’t want, am sober, clean, am relatively fit rather than obese like a lot of my family, am responsible, is because my dad, indirectly, showed me what NOT to be and I am damned grateful. Without his example, I would’ve descended into that same socioeconomic death spiral that sucked in all the rest of my family. Since the holidays were marked by extreme cold, snowstorms, being alone, and little excess cash, I hunkered down and got a lot done as I often do when freed from rigid schedules and routines. Painted walls, hung pictures, fixed the dog fence, hauled and cut firewood, wrote, read five books, helped an elderly colleague, took care of a woman who’d run off the road, helped disabled neighbors, worked on my floors. Yep, looking over the past years, I can really see how having folk actually be there for me woulda helped the healing process a lot. You read all this stuff about how to heal from hurt and everything says turn to family, to friends, community but there is nothing there to tell one what to do in the absence of these things or when one has been hurt and you cannot disclose who or why. I really learned a lot this year and it seems as though you did too; congrats on sending the dude back to where he came from. Sometimes one needs to just blow things off too, just sit on one’s behind for a while, regroup.
Oona
on 02/01/2015 at 10:12 pm
Yes had the same problem of most advice telling me to turn to family and friends – however I didn’t have that option at the time also – it was also part of the problem that got me there in the first place – its shocking how little is written for people experiencing this on their own and almost an added layer of unwritten shame as a result – that I also had to get over before moving on. You all sound like you are doing really well and is a joy to read.
Noquay
on 03/01/2015 at 1:35 am
Oona, this is really sad too because many folks are in that very situation. Yet, I cannot think of a single source of info that deals with it. In my immediate work circle, I can think of three women in the same boat. A neighbor killed herself over that very issue. Like you, the problems I had with men here are solely due to feeling isolated and very alone and had I been back home, would never have happened. People had your back a lot more. More communication, looking out for one another. On the rez, one has ceremony to acknowledge your hurt and free expression of grief is the norm. Although one isn’t supposed to avoid feelings by over work, that’s exactly what I do as accomplishing something is really my only constructive outlet. You’re right, Oona, there’s almost a sense of shaming going on, ironically often by the very folk that caused the hurt in the first place. Kinda reminiscent of abusive family dynamics.
Oona
on 02/01/2015 at 10:14 pm
I am so pleased for you Brenda K!!!!!!!Good luck in 2015!!!
Oona
on 02/01/2015 at 10:03 pm
Nat is right – allowing yourself to be right in feeling grief first – no matter how long its been or what the ‘rule’ is someone is telling you. No one walks in your shoes. Trauma has been the worst thing I have ever had to deal with in my life but allowing myself to feel it has definitely been the first step to healing from it – just sometimes I am telling it to someone who can’t deal with it or someone who is in denial or someone who simply doesn’t understand – which I have also been in my life in the past as well at times. Happy New Year everyone.
Deft Pink
on 31/12/2014 at 12:29 am
Great article. Thanks!
BermieGirl
on 31/12/2014 at 12:46 am
As usual, you are spot on!!
I just broke up with someone who was fast forwarding on all fronts including this one. The final straw for me was that he screamed at me in the wee hours of the morning as we were driving back from a club (when he knew that I do not tolerate raised voices – my view, right or wrong, is that at best it’s an attempt to bully and at worst a precursor to violence). He then expected me to be over it….immediately even though he would not promise that it wouldnt happen again. It gets better…the reframe on his inability to promise to behave decently was that he was a man of his word and didn’t want to make promises he couldn’t (or wouldn’t) keep! Lol This was not the first time he had tried to bully me or the first time I was expected to magically get over being disrespected and hurt. It was the second and it was two too many.
I know I’m not the only one grateful for your blog. My people pleasing ways are behind me and I’m finally starting to make better choices and walking away from the bad ones a lot sooner! Thank you! 🙂
Karen
on 31/12/2014 at 1:21 am
I have lots to say about this latest post, but right now I’d like to simply thank Natalie Lue for every pearl of wisdom she has shared with us over the years, and wish her a prosperous, loving and joyous 2015.
Natalie, you and your readership have helped me so much. Thank you.
Your friend in Texas,
Karen
lori
on 31/12/2014 at 1:50 am
I am the cause of my boyfriend being upset with me. I acted jealous over a female co-worker/friend of his posting a comment at something he posted (not the first time Ive done it) The girl is 30 years younger and she has a very provocative profile picture – lots of cleavage (he is 50). He told me he has zero tolerance for jealousy and I had no right to act the way I did. That was on the 26th. He text’d me that he was very mad and wanted to take a break…I have not heard from him, no response to my efforts to talk sine then. What should I do? I apologized, should i just move on?
Suki
on 31/12/2014 at 3:38 pm
Lori, first, what you should do… when the other person says they’re not interested (for whatever reason), the classy thing to do is to move on. Stop contacting him, respect his decision.
Second, think about what happened. Your part in it, his part in it. So you can learn going forward. Only you know how ‘irrational’ your jealousy was, how dismissive his response was [e.g. if you have done this before, perhaps he’s lost patience and he’s not really being a jerk, just this is the natural end game of a relationship where people cannot trust each other].
To me the key questions are; how stable/mature is this guy and how did he respond to this and other things; how ‘rational’ is your jealousy which depends on what comment the coworker made or whatever else makes you jealous; how mature was the conversation you started with him about it.
So, you might want to think of your jealousy issues. Where do they come from, and what parts of them are under your control, what parts are not, what needs to be addressed with other people vs. something for you to deal with by yourself. E.g. you see an ambiguous text message [lets assume you aren’t snooping but see it anyway sometimes its on the phone screen] and if you are in a real relationship its okay to ask – you are not accusing, you are not persuading or controlling. You are asking for information. ‘Hey, I thought we are exclusive, who is this person sending this overly intimate text’. If you find yourself jealous if anyone sends him ANY kind of text, thats on you – he’s not responsible for that feeling, an everyday text doesnt break the terms of your relationship.
You have a situation were a woman posted on his FB, and all thats wrong with her is cleavage in her profile pic? I assume the comment wasn’t too risqué or inappropriate and even if it was, its okay for you to tell your feelings without holding the other person responsible for it. You can say ‘these comments seem inappropriate’ and wait for what he says and what he says is part of your discovery phase [a 50 year old man should know how to deal with an inappropriate comment from a coworker] – but you can’t say that to him unless they were inappropriate FB comments. So you need to come down to reality; maybe you are insecure in the relationship and it makes you jealous. So work on that.
As we’ve talked about here before, somehow the most anxious type of people (like you, like me) end up with the most ambiguous guys. Its like instead of looking for someone stable that will make us feel calm, we seem to go for those that ratchet up the anxiety because anxiety is our home. And if they are stable? [assuming maybe your guy is, because if he isn’t then cleavage-friend is hardly the biggest problem you have] – if they are stable we might try to create drama to drive them away. Think about what really happened here.
rags mom
on 31/12/2014 at 5:52 pm
” the classy thing to do is move on”
Thanks….I read this sentence more than once hopin it sinks in…..
Stephanie
on 31/12/2014 at 3:43 pm
Lori,
Your boyfriend sounds suspect! Because if something like you getting jealous would cause him to want to take a break, I suspect he was just waiting for the right reasons to go n/c. I’m not sure if he has giving you a reason to be jealous, but he can’t tell you you don’t have a right to feel anything. Maybe he doesn’t like your reaction, but it is yours to have. He sounds childish! If you apologized and he still acting silly then just leave it alone.
Allison
on 01/01/2015 at 7:40 am
Lori,
What did she post?
Little Star
on 01/01/2015 at 12:41 pm
Lori, I know it is hard to move on, but today start of new year and new life. How exciting it is, can you imagine, what can you do and who you can meet;) Leave all your worries in the past, he is not worth it. Your BF knew that you have jealousy issues, why provoking you?! I left all losers behind, can’t wait for new adventures! Happy New Year Natalie and all my virtual friends from BR!!!
Ethelreda the Unready
on 31/12/2014 at 2:27 am
Thank you, Natalie. Being in midlife (Crazy Hormone Central) is another factor that can affect your resilience. It really does bring you face to face with unfinished emotional business.
I grieve these days sometimes over things that I thought I had gotten over, and also things that other people would simply laugh at, and tell me to move on. A good example is the disaster of my first teenage romance at 17, when I fell for a handsome schoolboy of the same age with a really fucked-up family and a LOT of problems with females.
It crashed and burned, and then I fell for him again at 18, and it crashed and burned even worse: about 18 months of being strung along and used – not sexually, but emotionally.
It has puzzled me for years why I kept coming back to this lengthy episode and feeling such pain over it, until I realised that it was THIS epiose that imprinted very firmly on me that I was utterly unloveable to men outside my family as well as inside it. It taught me that I had to ‘earn’ male love, and ‘work’ for it, and morph into what they wanted, and that even then I would probably fail and be rejected. I was at exactly the age to take this lesson on board and really absorb it, and it did me genuine damage.
I have to work on forgiveness here, because he really had no idea how much damage he was doing, and since then his life has not been exactly a whirling good time. It led to two years of withdrawn, eccentric behaviour on my part, because I just gave up. Gradually I began to emerge from my shell – but at the end of that emerging, I met the man who I almost married, with disastrous results as well! I well and truly associated pain with love.
I know I’m not in a place where I can date yet, or even ever again, because I find it so hard to trust, and I was really burned by the EUM as well. I am concentrating instead on finding those shared values, rapport and closeness and love with the people I live with and work with, and my friends.
It has been a great year for me. I really feel like I’ve gotten my mojo back in so many areas, after FIVE unimaginable YEARS of on-and-off awful EUM experience. He finally cleared off in late 2013, and I have barely given him a thought since, but just this morning I cleaned out my contacts book in my phone, and found his number still there, and deleted it without even a twinge. I didn’t even know I still had it!
V.
on 31/12/2014 at 2:55 am
Hello NML, it has been great reading your posts these past months. It feels like there’s a friend somewhere out there. It’s great, You’re great! I find myself Happy reading you!
Happy new year etc., V.
Lacy
on 31/12/2014 at 2:59 am
Hey everyone I haven’t read the post yet but, I want to say thks to Nat because this site has really helped me. I am rid off the bs from loving a man who never would love me. I’m working on myself and for once in my life I can say I am happy.
NoMo Drama
on 31/12/2014 at 9:10 pm
I hope you’re really and truly well rid for good! Best wishes in 2015
Michael
on 31/12/2014 at 3:06 am
First time posting here:)
As many articles have been bang on since I’ve been readying the blog, this one really hits home for me. I’ve always been plagued by being able to feel very deeply about things. In most cases it’s passion, but when it comes to feelings for women, that I actually really like, it takes me FOREVER to get over them. It drives me crazy how long it takes, and also really surprises me to a certain degree.
Its been almost a year now, that I’m still thinking/feeling about a girl I dated for just a few months this time last year. I’d been deeply hurt on a few occasions over the years, and really thought I had learned enough to prevent myself from being hurt like I was again.
We broke up very suddenly after a really great weekend together, and although it was totally necessary and the right thing to do for a variety of reasons, she was the first girl in my life I could see and wanted a future with. She had told me early on she felt the same.
She didn’t do anything wrong, or was a bad person, or treated me poorly or anything like that. She was really amazing. A good, kind, wonderful woman, I really wanted her to be the one for me. It’s been incredibly hard to let her go over the course of this past year, and I’m still kind of in shock that she is STILL in me. I still miss her very much.
That being said, I know the worst is over and I haven’t seen her since August which is certainly helping with the process, but dam, the process takes time, whether I like it or not.
I actually was referred to this site shortly after we broke up in February, and have been reading off and on since. Thank you to everyone for their openness and sharing:) It’s helped!
Luckily
Rosie
on 04/01/2015 at 1:40 am
Michael- Hello from a fellow passionate soul! 🙂
tiffrbug
on 31/12/2014 at 3:07 am
Nat,
This is a beautiful post and comes in perfect timing. It’s crazy. I learned this the hard way with the grief experience including my ex. The more I tried to force myself to be okay and forgive, the longer drawn out the grief process was. The reality is that it was a major traumatic loss for me that reopened old wounds. Each bit of contact and rejection reopened the wound from the traumatic loss. I finally got to a point where I loved myself too much to let him have one bit of access to my heart. I’ve grown throughout the whole process, but my growth had compounded after slamming that door shut for good. Oh, and even better, I now deal with grief every day as a Hospice nurse. I see the sadness and beauty in taking the time to grieve and grow. It’s amazing how God makes all work together for good. Thank you again for this post. It was much needed today.
JediGirl
on 31/12/2014 at 3:40 am
I must say, Natalie, that your posts always pop up in my inbox at the right time. Honestly, I’m getting tired of people telling me stuff along the lines of: “You should’ve forgotten all about him already, it’s been over a year!”. Talk about pressure. The truth is, even though I’m feeling a lot better, on the 25th I got a very unexpected text from my very emotionally unavailable ex who dumped me over a year ago and went abroad for about ten months, telling me Merry Christmas, *insert my name here*. I said something similar to him and when he tried to start a conversation, I ignored him and proceeded to delete the whole conversation. After the incident, I found one of your articles (“It’s just a text”) and I felt proud of myself for doing exactly what you suggested. However, the whole thing brought back a lot of feelings I thought were past gone, and left me wondering WHY, WHY on earth he contacted me again. It was a feeble (and lazy) attempt to reconnect, I know. It shows what kind of a person he is.
The real problem here is that it makes me believe I really am not over him yet, I’m probably gonna come across him more than once next year, I’m a bit scared.
What advice/opinion can you give me? I’m trying not to put too much pressure on myself, especially since big changes are coming to my life in the next few months (new job & living on my own).
I really, really want to thank you for sharing your experiences on this amazing blog of yours. You are the best.
Happy New Year! 🙂
Suki
on 31/12/2014 at 4:08 pm
Jedigirl, I too will see the EUM for the next few months, hopefully no more after that. I would stay polite, be ready for awkward – I think awkward is good, why should he just get to waltz around and have you be all ‘cool girl’ around him and friendly and letting him think nothing happened? As long as you know you won’t give in [you didn’t respond to continuing texts so you’ll probably be just fine], its okay if its awkward or sad or whatever. There might be bad feelings, theres no timetable to move on, feelings are not facts and its pointless to control them. Just dont get back together with him, dont be ‘friends’, and be kind to yourself for your lapses in feeling. What more can we do?
JediGirl
on 31/12/2014 at 9:37 pm
Thank you for your support. 🙂 I feel he’s acting as if nothing ever happened between us. Like I was just a fling and it’s perfectly acceptable to come back into my life whenever he pleases, the jerk. I can’t allow that. My self esteem is not as low as it was a year ago. And yes, I’ll do everything I can not to give in but I’ll be the opposite of what he was to me when he dumped me: I’ll be polite.
The relationship damaged me a lot, I don’t want ever to go through it again. I’ve learned my lesson: No more emotionally unavailable men in my life!
We certainly deserve better, girls. I hope 2015 bring happiness to all of you.
Happy New Year wherever you are, Suki!
Lucy
on 01/01/2015 at 8:43 am
Jedigirl, don’t give yourself a hard time because his text triggered some old feelings! It’s human and like Natalie says, we are not Teflon coated. I think your reaction to his text was perfect and it shows that you are on the right way. Yes, it still may hurt from time to time, and yes, it might get you to think about the should’ve could’ve would’ves occasionally but I can see that you are not bullshitting yourself about his actions or his motives.
I would stay polite, when you run across him, but nothing more. Keep your answers very short, don’t seek or engage in further conversation, just like you have done with his text. At some point he will get it. And if he doesn’t stop being polite and just ignore him! It sound like he has behaved like an AC so you would have all the right in the world NOT to be polite.
I was glad to read your comment, btw, because I am in a similar situation and it put my head right. The very EUM with whom I had a casual relationship almost 1 year and 8 months ago sent me a text before Christmas. It was a nice text but it just screamed “I am currently bored / single / nostalgic and just testing the waters”. I have a friend who calls these texts ” end of the year sign-in” meaning someone wants to keep his options open for next year. I still was so shocked to hear from him that it took me a day to know what to reply and I replied in a friendly but neutral way. I had also thought about ignoring it, but (probably similar to you) I didn’t want to be rude, and it was a nice text, after all. Also we run into each other from time to time due to work, so I don’t want it to be uncomfortable. To my neutral text there was no further reply – which just proves the point that he wanted to test the waters, and when he didn’t get the eager answer /ego stroke he expected that was that.
But of course after his text my thoughts had started going on and on about if and how I should reply, his motives for contacting me etc. And even though my brain knew it was totally irrational I was speculating, if he wanted another go at whatever we had, or even – Mega Illusion Alert – had realized he really likes me. The crazy thing is, on a rational level I am indeed over him, i don’t want to be with someone with the character traits he displayed. And I don’t want to be treated casually. It’s just this “betting in potential” but which I am not through with yet. This thinkin “if I had done x,y,z differently, maybe he would have been a,b,c”. Crazy!! But I guess being aware of ones mental diciencies is a good first step. 😉
That’s why I am so glad about your comment to Nat’s post! 🙂 I promptly read the “it’s just a text” post and put my feet firmly back in reality.
Happy new year!
JediGirl
on 01/01/2015 at 5:22 pm
OMG, it could’ve been me writing your post, LOL! We’re in very similar situations. I also think my ex was testing the waters. However, I was testing the waters, too. One of the main reasons I replied was to see if he would want to start a conversation, which he did. So I took my chance and ignored him, like he used to do to me very frequently when we were together. I wanted to show him that I’m not the same person I was a year ago. And I thought to myself: I clearly don’t mean much to him if he’s talking to me this casually after everything that happened, and is making such a little effort to contact me again. I bet he thought that since I was crazy about him, I’d go crawling to his feet. So even though his text upset me, I also felt some sort of satisfaction. He was the one who came back and not me.
I’m also gonna come across my ex at some point. We go to the same university and we even might be neighbors from this year on. I wish I could pretend he doesn’t exist, like he used to do after he dumped me. But I’m not like him. That hurt like hell BTW.
I sometimes wonder why we get so emotionally involved with guys who give us mere bread crumbs. My ex was a complete commitment phobe. Whenever I pushed to hard, he would get angry at me and give me the silent treatment for days. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. I was so on edge while I was with him that it affected my health. And yet, I was so blinded and infatuated that I couldn’t see our relationship was going nowhere. I’m guessing this must be a common pattern among many of us reading this blog.
All the best! Have a wonderful new year! 🙂
Gayl
on 31/12/2014 at 4:13 am
It’s alarming to me that the more I put your advice into practise the less guys I have in my life. That says something about me that I’d like to correct. Thank you for your penetrating insights & blogs.
Vera
on 31/12/2014 at 9:04 pm
Gayl,
I have been thinking something similar…not just men though, people in general. Unfortunately I have attracted not just men that will use and exploit me, but women as well. I’m losing them left and right…setting boundaries and letting the chips fall where they fall. I’ve slowly backed away from some of them thta I see socially as I’ve learned that often people get mean when they figure our you’re on to them!
I made a really important emotional connection today with my beliefs and why I believe that that is my purpose in life ..to be a doormat. I was treated as a possession as a child, a non-entity – someone to be used and abused (exploited and betrayed). I was taught that I was not worthy of consideration and that I was not suppose to have needs and wants. My role was to take care of everyone else. This belief is reflected in the people I have attracted in the past. (I’m being an optimist here! Working on changing those beliefs and changing who I attract based on the updated beliefs.) I realize this will take time and practice.
Very painful realization that my parents treated me like a possession – a thing; it’s funny but I knew this intilectually before but hadn’t been able to feel it emotionally. I recently had an interaction with a guy a turned down for a date a couple of months ago that allowed me to make a connection to the past…when I saw this guy again at a social gathering he ignored me…we were at a table with 2 other people and he acted like I was not there (a non-entity). It was emotional abuse and a power play. The effect on me taught me a lot…it helped me connect to the past and when I felt that way before.
The guys a jerk, but I’m grateful it happened. It was a gift. I’m looking at everyone in my life as a mirror reflecting my beliefs back to me. When my life is full of loving, kind, respectful and supportive people, I’ll know I have successfuly updated my beliefs to include that I am worthy of unconditional love as well as being treated with kindness, dignity and respect.
We are all worthy of being treated with love, kindness, deignity and respect.
Happy New Year!
Thank you, Nat!
NoMo Drama
on 31/12/2014 at 9:23 pm
Are they fewer, but higher-quality men? That’s the important thing.
Rachel
on 31/12/2014 at 5:05 am
Thanks for this topic. It’s been almost 5 months (dear Lord) and I’m just finally getting over being angry with myself because I couldn’t get validation from anyone. I’ve accepted that others won’t be able to relate to the CPTSD reactions I’ve had to yet another relationship chalk full of narcissistic abuse. It’s in some ways been the most painful part. Don’t even miss the AC anymore (now that I have sorted out the fantasy from the pathetic, disappointing reality… Since it was my second Narc/Socio or whatev I just didn’t anticipate it ever being “possible” for it to happen again). Anyway, it did, “right under my nose,” and the humiliation was so strong. I lost my mind and likely seemed like a fascinating car wreck for mutual friends with the best intentions to watch. My bouncing back has been largely a process of loving myself by being able to not care what anyone thinks and also not hold contempt for all those people who can’t possibly understand… With all their well intentioned but frankly offensive advice. However, the communities you find ACs and even just EUMs in typically have boundary busters of all kinds and styles. I’ve had to get distance and pursue snowboarding as a solo venture to feel like I have a way to bounce back in any meaningful fashion. I needed something to give me meaning now that I have no community that makes me feel good. I had other communities before, but my two best friends moved almost immediately as the AC sabotaged everything. I blame myself for the breakup, but I remember in tears asking him “so are we breaking up?” This question I asked almost rhetorically; while he said he didn’t want things to end, he had put me in a position where I simply couldn’t keep my self esteem in tow. I still resent him for his shitty behavior at the end. I’ve dealt with other EUM in much more graceful ways, but ACs make it harder to do that I guess. I know I’m responsible and accountable, but just saying, if the end was with a “SURPRISE ASSCLOWN,” bouncing back is much harder. Particularly when your surprise AC is unbeknownst to everyone else. It’s been hell! Haha… Gosh.
LilDebby
on 31/12/2014 at 6:10 am
I hate being bullied., and try not to tolerate it. Definitely have never kept a relationship with one. My last two heart break-up both took me about 5 years each to recover. Now I don’t even hope for a love relationship. I do date lately, and screen them like a good HR agent. If they aren’t qualified they don’t get my relationship. I screen them out immediately at yellow and red flags. Just way too many cheating lose men & seriously, I’m happy with my self, and the world and life that I am living without all the bad relationships.
Leanne
on 31/12/2014 at 6:30 am
Thank you for this lovely article Nat and for all your posts. I appreciate the space and acceptance that your create with these words. I am working on getting over a tough situation that has recently had me feeling pretty badly. With self-work, the comments of others on the site and a great group of supportive friends, I am hopeful that I will bounce back soon. I actually said this to the MM that I was involved with when I attempted to break things off the first time. That I needed to stop not just seeing him, but also talking to him so that I could bounce back and live as the happy person I know I am. And I just can’t do that with him and his situation in my life. I think this made him upset because he thought we could just fool around and then be friends. Or maybe he couldn’t stand the idea of me being happy without him. I don’t know. His thoughts are a mystery to me. But I am working on bouncing back and can see that NC is a big big part of that. I will still be looking for a new job in the new year and I am planning to just stay NC when I’m back at the office. If he continues to stop by, then I’ll email him to politely ask that he stay away. It is so, so hard to put up that boundary here, but it is crucial to being able to bounce back and have a happy life again. Thank you for your advice everyone recently and thanks Nat for this post. Happy New Year!!
rags mom
on 31/12/2014 at 5:50 pm
I would advise just be busy everytime he drops by , he will get the message. Sending an email outlining your intentions and reasons in detail = none of these guys we pine over really deserve these long soul revealing written notes.
Kathleen
on 31/12/2014 at 7:13 am
Right on point!!! Thank you!!!
rags mom
on 31/12/2014 at 8:43 am
Thank you so much Nat for this post – you really have become my Guru.
I have been struggling so hard with going NC with OM – after his tepid offer to stay friends on and off during the past 6 months. I want to give my marriage the whole heartedness it deserves and see if it can become better than it has in the past 11 years – I owe it to my son to try.My conscience has been clear these past few weeks. I think I was secretly hoping at one point last year that OM would want a future with me , not just a casual friendship – I never thought it would be this hard to mourn the demise of a hope that never should have been.
tillamookie
on 10/01/2015 at 5:23 am
I am you, right down to the 11 years of marriage. I don’t have any words of wisdom yet, just commiseration.
kate
on 31/12/2014 at 8:54 am
Amazing post. As ever. All Christmas I have essentially been rejecting myself by seeking validation&attention from the most EUM there ever was. He press the reset button on me a few wks ago then disappeared leaving me reeling. If I didn’t have these posts&the NCR to draw upon now as we enter the new year, I wouldn’t know what was going on. But I do.they give me hope.
Thank you Natalie and all the best for 2015:) x
Katie
on 31/12/2014 at 10:11 am
This is great to read, first thing in the morning after a brief mediation (all part of my new self care routine!) and it’s timing is perfect. I expect a lot of people are feeling the anxiety of the New Year coming up and little thoughts like this, reminding us to take our time and do what’s right for us rather than rush through things, are so important.x x
Fi
on 31/12/2014 at 11:18 am
Thanks so much for this article! I’ve been using this website as my recovery bible. (other fave article being: Coping with feeling rejected by Mr Unavailables & Assclowns Part Two)
My boyf and I split in July but I started NC as of Oct after I found out he was quickly moving on with other girls, and I found I couldn’t handle that and maintaining a “friendship.”
He’s a classic Mr. Unavailable, he didn’t cheat but he was keeping things from me, such as meeting his ex for a drink, but then flying off the handle when I had a problem with it, he didn’t need my permission apparently.
As my friends and family didn’t like him as a result of his behavior, they really struggle with why I’m not over it. I actually became depressed, am in therapy and take antidepressants and am on the road to recovery, and this website with articles like this are such a big help that I can’t even describe my gratitude! I may not be where other people think I should be, they think I’m dwelling, wallowing, but I’m definitely stronger than I was before, it’ll take time and I’ll get there when I get there!! xx
happy b
on 31/12/2014 at 11:26 am
Thank you Natalie, spot on.
After dreading xmas, I enjoyed the company of friends and had a truthful and productive conversation with a once-close family member I’d distanced myself from for the past few years, way more than I thought possible. No drama, but what is hopefully the start of a healing process.
My main lesson for the year was that in any relationship where I feel the other person doesn’t care/support me enough, or where I feel harmed (a recurring theme in my life), I have to be prepared to walk away. In fact, ‘be prepared to walk away’ has become my motto in situations where I feel powerless and too dependent on a particular outcome. This way of thinking translates into actions and it’s what eventually produced the near-apology I got over xmas – no amount of talking could do this, as failed attempts over the years showed.
I used to think it was always better to be determined and fight for things, but not if I’m trying to control the uncontrollable, then it becomes a waste of energy and I compromise myself. It also has to be genuine – if my distancing was a game where I was trying to get a particular result, it would be a very hard few years, I have to do it for myself like NC.
I hope that doesn’t sound harsh, there’s work to be done but it gives me optimism for the new year. I won’t over-invest in guys as though they’re the last-chance saloon, as I did in 2014, and I won’t cling on to relationships that do me no good. That feeling of powerlessness and need is a signal to branch out and make my life more full.
On that note, I wish Natalie and all commenters on this amazing, life-changing site a very happy 2015 and will repeat what Nat once said, ‘the only limits are those we put on ourselves’.
rags mom
on 31/12/2014 at 5:47 pm
‘Be prepared to walk away’ …thanks, I’m writing this down.
Rosie
on 01/01/2015 at 4:50 am
Yes, I’m writing it down too.
Veracity
on 01/01/2015 at 10:31 pm
Be prepared to walk away as opposed to worrying that they will if we don’t toe the line.
happy b
on 02/01/2015 at 9:15 am
True, Veracity. If we’re anxious about losing someone, we try too hard to please them or toe their line, and it’s little wonder we end up feeling like they don’t appreciate us. In healthy relationships, either person walking away is not on the radar. Challenges to each other and disagreements are normal and show that we’re properly engaging in each other’s lives and feelings rather than trying to cling onto a position or gain a better one. Just as we learn and improve by reflecting and compassionately challenging ourselves, we do this for friends and family too.
This relative I’m (hopefully) reconciling with has struggled when I’ve disagreed with him in recent years, he just wasn’t used to it and seemed to think we should have a unified position on other family members, the world, etc., and that I was somehow trying to be ‘superior’ by just standing my ground. I said many times that I found his position just as valid and wasn’t judging him for it or trying to influence him, was just doing things my own way. I’m not sure I can convince him of this as I’ve said it many times, but crucially, that’s not my problem. Conflict is much better than dishonesty and insecurity.
Veracity
on 02/01/2015 at 8:49 pm
I’m in a similar place.
Sofia
on 03/01/2015 at 3:27 am
I wish I had known this back then. I know now thanks to all of you.
Kellia
on 31/12/2014 at 1:50 pm
Great post Natalie! So insightful. Grieving takes time and I hate it when people say: “Just forget it about it already”. Gee, as if their discomfort is more important than our grief.
And looking back, it’s when I completely let myself feel the feelings of pain, grief, and let it all out, that that’s when I got over a situation much quicker. It’s when I allowed myself to grieve and give myself permission to be sad, cry and feel the feeling all the way through, that I finally got over it. Great post!
Leanne
on 31/12/2014 at 2:42 pm
@rags mom.. I am sorry I haven’t had the headspace to give more thoughtful repond to your posts the last couple days. Your comments have been very, very helpful to me. It sounds like you are taking the right approach to your situation (well the healthiest right now anyways). And who knows what the future holds. Where are you at ok you NC journey with OM? How has husband been the last few weeks? I can feel that I am still in grief. felt like text MM yesterday as I always do after he shows crumbs.. I know he likes me, but that doesn’t change the situation, what he wants and how he treated me. So I pressing on NC.
I appreciated your comment and about dating someone new. I think thatbis the only thing that will really help here (besides eventually getting a new job and going NC for real). I am still workin on the relationship I split up because of this situation. As per my advice to you, my ex would like me to give it some time to see if we can work things out and so I am. I don’t want to throw everything away even if it’s not perfect, so I’ve decided to give it some months here (3?). To see if we can put things back together and its worth salvaging. This situation really did a number on my life as well!!
Hope you are staying strong and finding time for some good times wih your son :). Grief can be so tough (if that’s where you’re at with OM). Hope you have a great New Years and talk soon xo Leanne
rags mom
on 31/12/2014 at 5:39 pm
Hey, going NC was quite recent , but it was partial NC after leaving the old job (July) ..
I dont want to break NC ….taking time to grieve and move on is one thing, but breaking NC would be absolutely shameful at this point ….for a while , I thought I wuld take up on his offer to ‘just stay in touch’ ‘give each other advice’ ‘check in on each other’….I guess Im not as cool as him , cudnt do that.
wow, ur really thinking abt getting back with ur ex, or just seeing each other and considering it ? Meeting new guys also is a good idea as going on dates, talking to new ppl, will take ur mind off MM for the crucial next few months, however, the flipside is bad dates /u not being attracted to the new ppl might have the counterproductive effect of weakening towards MMs advances …but take it from someone who has broken NC many many times and then went back to it, dont break NC …others on here have told u not to ever consider him as he is AC …I would say at the very least dont consider him at all while he is still MM (harder said than done I know !!, stay strong dear, u are worth it !!!)
Rosie
on 01/01/2015 at 5:11 am
Leanne- You broke up with the man you were living with as your feelings were growing for MM and now you’re semi – jumping back with previous guy while thinking of dating others to help get over MM…how about taking a break from men altogether until you have your own internal act together before you break somebody’s heart? Otherwise you’re jumping into yet another fire after just jumping into the fire from the frying pan. Just as we women aren’t blowup dolls, men aren’t emotional dolls for us to play with.
Be careful out there, huh?
(That came out harsher than I intended, sorry)
Lynn
on 02/01/2015 at 12:54 am
Leanne – I have to jump in too and agree with Rosie. You need a time out. There are underlying reasons why you left your relationship for a MM. You need to work on you and should take a break from dating. Jumping from one person to another solves nothing except avoiding your issues.
Suki
on 01/01/2015 at 11:52 pm
Leanne, You might want to read Natalie’s fall back girl book but putting yourself in the perspective of both the Mr Unavailable and the fall back girl. You are the MMs fall back girl perhaps, but your ex is your fall back boy. It is unfair to him.
All those posts on this blog ‘why does s/he call me if s/he’s not interested in me’ [thats your ex asking], or ‘why is s/he wanting to try when s/he left me for someone else the first time around [thats him asking the question again].
Diane
on 31/12/2014 at 2:49 pm
I’m going on 3 possibly 4 (I forget) years of “grieving” my ex-EUM, whom I was on/off with for almost 6 years. I don’t even know what it’s about at this point. It makes no sense. I spent 10 years with a lovely man and it took me less time to get over him. I think I read once that Nat said the more infused your romance is with fantasy, the longer it takes to get over the person, and I believe that is the case here. I’m not getting over HIM per se, but the idea of him, and the fantasy of him that sprouted in my brain’s wiring at some point when I was very young. He must represent a lot of different issues for me. I don’t even take it very seriously anymore but there are many days when I’m just exhausted with myself and wish I could wipe him completely out of my memory like the characters did in “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.” I mean, I could have stayed with him, I’m the one who broke it off. I’m no longer raw, furious, and devastated, but why must I think of this idiotic man every day and yet again go over who did what and who said what? It’s like my brain has some kind of neural muscular disease and just goes off on its own tangents. Even my therapist was like “You really need to move on.” Crazy.
rags mom
on 31/12/2014 at 5:44 pm
Yeah, i guess its true we get hooked onto the drama of stressful situations ….
And yeah , fantasies woven around the man is much harder to get over than the actual guy himelf….
try some big new goals for 2015, stuff youve never done before , some new career goals , exciting travel …meeting some new ppl ?
Ellie
on 05/01/2015 at 2:09 pm
Dear Diane,
I can sympathize! It’s been almost two years for me, and I still think about my ex every day, on some days almost constantly, even though we haven’t had any contact in a year and a half. It’s so hard, frustrating, and confusing.
I think you’re onto something when you say you don’t really miss HIM, per se, and I think – I hope, for my own sake – that that’s also the key to eventually healing. I hardly remember what being with my ex was like, and I’m rationally aware that towards the end it was awful and there were some fundamental issues that made us a very bad match. But he has become a symbol for all the scars I got over the course of our relationship and our break-up: feelings of humiliation, being pathetic, being wronged, being abandoned, feeling worthless, feeling undesirable. Basically, him treating me badly, then dumping me, then continuing to treat me badly whenever he was forced to face me, shook my view of the world and my sense of identity. Prior to that, I felt loved and desirable, I felt that my good actions were rewarded while bad people got their come-uppance. The break-up shook all this.
But the crucial thing here is that these are all feelings inside ME. Fine, he was an asshole and I let him, but he’s no longer in my life daily saying, “You’re worthless! I’m so much better than you are!” It’s all me. As much as him leaving me hurt, it also meant finally being rid of this toxic relationship. Yet I’m still beating myself up, clinging to the toxins.
I wish I knew the magic cure to this. As said, I am still in a lot of pain. But I think one thing we both need to do is to focus on ourselves. It’s good to grieve and go through all the emotions, but it seems the both of us are confused about what is really upsetting us. In your case, it’s an ideal idea of your ex and your life together; for me, it’s feelings of pain. It’s not surprising we feel sad for years when what we’re really grieving for are things like “losing your ideal soulmate” or “losing your sense of self-worth”. These are big issues! Way bigger than our exes ever were. I think we need to tackle the *real* issues and learn to, as tacky as it sounds, love ourselves rather than letting our brains keep derailing us. I know I personally need to learn to focus more on my life and making it as fulfilling as I can – spending time with friends, listening to Coursera lectures and learning new things, maybe going on a few casual (casual!) dates to remind myself that I am attractive, and so on. It’s hard, and I keep slipping, but I’m trying.
Good luck!
Diane
on 31/12/2014 at 4:05 pm
btw, can anyone point to a blog of Nat’s that might explain why EUMs keep getting in touch with you despite not wanting a relationship or even sex or anything? I’m once again attempting to go NC with my ex-EUM and he keeps emailing me every few days or so … just little links to stories … but STILL. So annoying. Can’t he see I’m ignoring him? And no for some reason I can’t block him. I have tried over and over, I click on “Block” and the next thing I know I’ve got an email. And I can’t abandon that account. Luckily he does not call or text or anything else. But I am curious WHY they do it? Sending out feelers??
Diane, is it the 6-year EUM who’s sending you the banal messages? If so, it’s no wonder you can’t move on.
I had an EUM in and out of my life for many years until I was his live-in fall-back girl. I would say I’m over him now, but I had to quit FB and cut contact with his friends too, or I would have just been torturing myself and wouldn’t have moved on. I gave indifferent responses to his lame ‘feeler’ messages so they fizzled out pretty quick. Have you directly asked this EUM not to contact you? Ask him formally and clearly next time.
I think our brain does wire itself a certain way so thoughts become habit, and we have to forcibly rewire it sometimes. But the persistence of these thoughts also means you have issues to work through. So sometimes the answer is to make yourself think of something else – go for a jog, contact a friend, make soup, see a film – and other times the answer is to get a pen and paper and tackle it head on. It’s our call to know whether it’s an obsessive, repetitive thought that’s going nowhere or something that can be worked on. Be kind and patient with yourself, expect lapses and triggers, but you do need to progress, and will.
Like Rag’s mom says, finding new goals, people and interests is key. It’s such common advice but essential. If you’re not thinking of and focusing on him, you need something else to think about. There’s only so much we can reflect on ourselves and the best insights come when we’re doing other things.
Diane
on 04/01/2015 at 1:57 am
Happy b, yes, we emailed on and off since I broke up with him. Mostly out of boredom, I think, and habit. I had zero intention of getting back with him. But I’ve ignored him for two weeks now. I’ve said too many times in the past that I would never respond to him again, and then I did, so I don’t want to say anything here that will jinx it, but I’m fairly certain that’s it for me. He’s not even amusing anymore.
Revolution
on 31/12/2014 at 6:19 pm
Miss Natalie,
Thoughtful post. Very thorough discussion about the different things that keep us from bouncing back. Personally, I used to get really embarrassed about how long it took me to bounce back from a relationship–whether pseudo or real. I mean, my God, during my recovery time (which lasted months) I spent about 4 or 5 nights a week at my gym, working out and then crying hard for about 20 minutes in the steam room after (provided I was alone in there!). All this over guys that would jerk me around, guys who were the “phantom boyfriend” who I wasn’t even sure I could lay that designation on. One guy it took me 3 years to get over and we only pseudo-dated about 9 months. It got to the point where I wouldn’t talk to any of my friends about it after a while, because I felt like such a chump, crying over spilled, now curdled, milk. I wish I would’ve had this article then. And what you said about not envying those friends who just dust themselves off and jump into a new relationship….spot on. This knowledge also comes, I think, with age. You tend to see things catch up with people–whether yourself or others. Anyway, thoughtful post, my dear.
espresso
on 31/12/2014 at 6:25 pm
Diane – an ex staying in contact when you don’t want it is exercising control over you and showing complete disrespect. If you engage with him he can say that he wasn’t that bad- it is a way of rationalising his behaviour. Natalie has written a lot about this. And you are right – it’s not about wanting you. Assign him to trash and dump it although it would be better to block it. Have you talked to your provider?
This post is a wonderful gift to me. Because I was married so long I have had a lot of things to understand about how/why I stayed in the marriage, understanding how destructive it was and the dysfunctional things I did like placating him because he actually set the emotional rules which was don’t say anything if it isn’t nice. I have had trouble on the days I feel stuck or when I get a business email from him and feel upset. It is hard at those times to see the progress I have made. It is annoying because I know I need to feel stuff and make sense of it. But I can see that I have moved forward in so many ways. I look back on how it was a year ago and I am a lot more aware. It helps to be in a new city and doing new things. It also helps to remember that if I feel lonely at times, I was very lonely in the marriage plus I was living a fradulent life. To add to this, I think the length of the relationship can be a factor and the need to deal with oter things too- I lost many of my touchstones- my city that I loved and even my old business. Want to show more self compassion. I also want to accept that right now I am staking out my own life and feel pretty reactive to men in general or at least the men in my life.
Going through all this, as painful as it has been, is the right and only path for me and I believe that as long as I keep moving forward and feeling what is there- the healing will happen. Best to everyone in 2015 wherever you are
Why
on 31/12/2014 at 8:05 pm
Hey, espresso. I know how you feel when you say “he actually set the emotional rules which was don’t say anything if it isn’t nice”. And the paradoxical loneliness when your supposed “partner” sleeps beside you. As someone here said, it’s better to feel lonely on your own than to feel lonely in a relationship.
I just wanted to tell you that you’re not alone. All the best to you and your loved ones in 2015. Be safe, keep your boundaries. I am sure your decisions and fight for self-respect will pay off in double.
Rewind
on 31/12/2014 at 7:52 pm
I am still grieving but feel I have come a long way getting over someone that shouldn’t of had my soul for one day, let alone 5 years. He recently had a “friend” staying at his house over the holiday, and I did really well practicing indifference. Lo and behold, after she left town, I received a text that he was “playing with his big dick thinking of me.” Feelings of disgust came over me, but it also brought back visions of the pain he put me through over and over again. But I snapped out of it, and will continue my journey in 2015 loving myself.
Stephanie
on 02/01/2015 at 3:50 pm
Rewind,
Well think of it this way–If she spent the holidays with him and he is still unsatisfied, then her visit must not have been that eventful!
rewind
on 05/01/2015 at 3:23 pm
Sorry, but that is not a measure of a visit being eventful. He would sleep with someone and call me to come over and sleep with him an hour later. It has nothing to do with satifaction….it’s all about him using and abusing women. At least I’m done with him and moving on. The other women will have to learn the hard way, just as I did.
lizzp
on 06/01/2015 at 12:19 am
Rewind, this guy sounds like a real sicko. Can’t you block him so that you don’t receive unsolicited, boundary busting, sexually harassing text messages like this? Are you really ok with receiving messages like that?
lizzp
on 06/01/2015 at 2:50 am
What I’m saying/asking is why you feel that you have to put up with the feelings of disgust that are triggered by the invasive text messages from this (literal) w*nker. If you know you deserve better for yourself and want to treat yourself with care and respect perhaps you need to block him. Protect yourself from more unnecessary pain.
Eyes Wide Open
on 31/12/2014 at 9:33 pm
This year has been a painful one but a life changing blessing at the same time. This last EUM 2 year relationship was my wake up call to see what in me was choosing these types over the last 10 years. It is true that contact reopens those wounds and makes the healing process first. I finally blocked my EUM for good on Christmas when he reached out saying he was in my hometown (we met in another city but have family in my hometown by coincidence- joy) and didn’t want me to start problems if I saw him. This is comical because I have never reached out to him this last 3 months unless it’s to respond to his attempts of sending me old pictures of us by saying it’s time to move on with his life. When I responded I’m not even there I opened the flood gates where he started texting me he actually was hoping to see me and misses me every day and loves me more than himself. He then tried to pull the im gonna be honesty finally card by telling me he met with female friends behind my back that were ex flings while we were together because I heard this from third parties after our break up and told him no matter what he says I believe the third parties. He rediculously believed in his sick mind that I would respect his forced honesty to have another shot. He proceeded to call me on Christmas balling his eyes out saying he cannot live without me and he’s in so much pain and I was very stern in saying whats done is done you need to move on with your life I’m not interested and I want to find real love that I deserve and he broke down crying saying he can’t fathom me being with another man and I was really hurting him ( mind you this assclown loser was seeing his designated rebound HOURS after our break up, are you frickin kidding me!). I ended up blocking him for good because he claims he will never delete my number like the psycho that he is and I need to move on with my life for my own Hapiness ! It’s me first period. The curiousity and jokes me friends and I would make over his wild attemps were keeping the wound. 2015 is my year to completely cut out bad people out of my life and focus on the good. If he shows up to my house again because I blocked him he is going to have a restraining order slapped on him. To think I’ve never once given him a clue there’s another “chance” up upon the many he screwed up. The painful lessons we learn sometimes open a whole new bright future of learning self commitment and love.
Tabitha
on 31/12/2014 at 10:32 pm
What about the people whose identities are defined by past issues, are not interested in professional help with sifting through the issues in order to heal? I had a Mr. Unavailable “friend” who talked incessantly about something that happened to him 30 years ago. He would blame the incident for all of the ills in his life, but wouldn’t talk about it because it was “too terrible”, and did not see the point in seeing therapy. He sent me links to songs about suicide, without explanation and regularly broke promises while blaming the incident on that behavior. 3 1/2 weeks ago, I went NC because I was feeling manipulated and accepted that he’s not interested in rebounding or recovering. I exhausted myself trying to find ways to help him and finally “get”that I’m not his therapist and that it’s time to move on.
Ethelreda the Unready
on 01/01/2015 at 8:37 am
Tabitha, Natalie has a good post on this in her archive:
Tabitha, it looks like you responded very well in the end. Men can find it hard to go for therapy, it’s their call but there are consequences in not getting help. I hope you’re feeling better now.
I have grown men and women in my family who blame their current problems (e.g. drinking, being distant and uncommunicative) on their childhood, while I, when I reached age 30ish, realised I’m entirely accountable and responsible for all my actions, that who I am NOW is all that matters and all that I can expect people to respond to. That’s what being an adult is about and I find that I am much lighter and freer than when I was a passive, victim child in my 20s, though it takes a lot of work. We have reasons for the way we are, but not excuses. But maybe I do this work just because I have to – I seemingly have to do it for my life to work out, including a relationship and friendships, while the people I’m talking about have no trouble finding supportive partners. To quote Larry David, ‘whatever works!’.
Noquay
on 03/01/2015 at 2:06 pm
Soooo right Happyb. Those folk that will not/cannot do their inner work may easily get partners but they’re not necessarily good ones or they get good folk who recognize something’s amiss and bail. My estranged bro used to whine that since he grew up in a dysfunctional family, the world owed him a break. I told him “nope, that means you work 10x as hard to fix your s@#$”. The world ain’t fair.
happy b
on 03/01/2015 at 10:31 pm
Hi Noquay, yes the world doesn’t owe anything, that old belief that I’d had enough bad luck and good luck would follow is long gone, and completely irrational when we look at the wider world. But this brings me a feeling of empowerment instead of bitterness. The world ain’t fair, but it ain’t unfair either. It just is. Certainly most of our actions have the appropriate consequences and our luck improves when we work hard and open our eyes to it. I do wobble and wonder why some people (ok, men!) seem to have it easier, but really I know that the work on fixing your ^&*( is rewarding and so much better than the alternative.
Noquay
on 05/01/2015 at 12:58 pm
Yep, feel the same way often. After 10+ years in the west, I almost feel I am “owed” a good partner, a sense of belonging, community. Bull! When I see the level of extreme poverty, mental illness going on right next door, I understand although terribly lonely, I am lucky. Men will always have an easier time finding someone new here. Simple demographics; far more successful women here than men, men don’t often care if a woman can support herself, is together, women do. Men can have some sort of rship with someone not compatible, we generally cannot. Just saw a male acquaintance with his second women within less than a week, if he were female, he’d be completely alone. While getting our act together, being a decent person is good from a growth standpoint, it’s no guarantee of getting what we want. However, we owe it to ourselves to be the best “us” we can be.
happy b
on 06/01/2015 at 7:28 am
Noquay, just keep doing what you’re doing and change will come. Being a decent person doesn’t guarantee anything but at least we can live with ourselves. You’re right to think about demographics because so much of your situation is an external issue, but don’t be a hostage to it. I don’t think you are, I just say it because if I listened to all the numbers I hear for women my age, I’d give up right now or act desperately, and observation can sometimes trick us. It just takes one person.
Leanne
on 01/01/2015 at 12:30 am
@rags mom.. Yes, I am going to give it a bit of work with my ex. He has asked for this and we have been together for a VERY long time, so I think it makes sense to at least try. This other fellow (the MM) really skewed my perception. So I think it’s worth trying for a short time so as not to throw the baby out with the bath water, as they say. He is a really great guy, but no fireworks as with MM. What is your plan for timing with husband? What do you think would need to change for you to b happy together? What about if your OM (or another, but perhaps older and closer version) were to come knocking again? I am interested to hear how you are managing this. Happy new year! Today I stewed a bit about things and drafted another email telling him not to come by or talk to me again. But I didn’t send it.
Just trying to focus on my own happiness and havin fun for now. Have a good night!
rags mom
on 01/01/2015 at 12:08 pm
Hi again Lea, Ive written two replies below to your current situation …hope you got through what sounds like a rough night with NC ….and good morning, Happy new Year ! Just wonderin, whats your age and MMs ? I think it makes a difference to the situation and solutions at your disposal ….
Re my situation = I’m back in the marriage for good Lea. Its not like Ive given this a timeframe to ‘see if it works’ for 6 months etc …thats what ppl told me to do a year ago, all I was doing was sitting back and enjoying husband buy me things and give his time /attention trying to get me to forget OM, at the same time I was enjoying OM’s attention as well and his mesaages saying ‘I will be there for you as your friend if you decide to divorce’ etc ….both of them were starting to hate me to be honest, cos the truth is I didnt have the guts to make up my mind, and I didnt want to leave the security of a 11 year marriage where my husband was starting to appreciate me like I wanted, for a shot at a guy 9 years younger, living in America, and who had plenty of women his age all around him….makin a decision and sticking to it is what being a grown up is all abt right ….im happy wiht my decision but know I will have many bad days when I doubt it, i wont reverse it tho.
Leanne
on 01/01/2015 at 6:32 am
Ahh.. I feel like I’m going crazy!! I want to break NC so bad right now.. Help! I don’t think I can keep doing this. What did you guys do to get thru the early stages?? Does this get better??
lizzp
on 01/01/2015 at 10:16 am
Hi Leanne, I think you should leave your ex, whom you left for the MM, alone at present even if he is asking for a reconciliation or talks re reconciliation. You are not free from MM emotionally and as Rosie mentions above there is a long way to go in sorting yourself out internally re your choices etc. You don’t really seem in a position to go back to your ex with a free heart – are you really ready to treat him and yourself with care, trust, respect and love? The man you left for the MM? The MM that you are (understandably) far from being over? Nat’s posts on buffers may be handy to read here – to get a handle on possible reasons why pursuing reconciliation and or friendship with your dumped ex may seem particularly attractive to you at this moment.
lizzp
on 01/01/2015 at 10:38 am
To add, the decent thing to do re your ex, IMO, is to realise he is not a baby in the bathwater. It’s not your job to worry about if/when your ex moves on. That is his choice to make but he does deserve honesty – to know that you are still emotionally stuck on MM.
rags mom
on 01/01/2015 at 11:16 am
Hi Leanne, a bit concerned about you jumping back into a relationship with your ex as well ….I’m sure hes a big boy and if he comes back in , its cos he wants to, …but I’m looking out for you when I say this = getting back with ex might be putting too much pressure on yourself right now when u are clearly heartbroken over MM ..you need some time to recover, I was suggesting fun harmless things like maybe speed dating going along with your girlfriends, hanging out with male friends u are comfortable with but who know that u arent looking for anything more right now …take time to heal before getting into another relationship especially with ex right now,if there wasnt enuf magic with him to stop u falling for MM, whats to say it wont happen again…i think a new guy has a better chance of taking ur mind off things …but u have to have a small healing period before an actual new relationship …meeting new men to remind yourself that there are plenty of good men out there is what I was suggesting …
rags mom
on 01/01/2015 at 11:26 am
And re – you feeling tempted to break NC – dont do it please. You know the reason you are asking us here rather than your close friends, u want completely objective advice from ppl who have been in similar situations. This is objective advice. Please consider =
1. He will lose respect for you or may already have at your continued weakness to get over a MM. You know his opinion counts, dont even try denying it = end it with dignity, dear girl.
2. Showing inklings of being willing to settle for crumbs indicates you dont think u deserve better. He will know you value yourself that less,and that he has that much power over you = you’re asking to be treated badly and a man will oblige.
3. I could repeat all that has already been said about him being a jerk AC and all of that. But I wont – I will say this = if you really care about him and respect and cherish what the two of you had / have, then for the LOVE OF GOD, dont break NC. Be classy. step back, show that you respect his marriage and that you want him to do the right thing. If he loves you, he will get a divorce, and come to you. they dont have kids, it could happen. ur blocking that possibility by acceptance of OW status. give him a chance to miss you. if he doesnt come back single and available, then he wasnt the man u thought he was, and what u had wasnt what u thought it was, it all just fantasy , by then months would have passed and maybe the real Jim to your Pam then has the space to make his entry. I believe in that saying that the universe gives us what we really want, but we have to let it or allow it to do so , dont we ?
Veracity
on 01/01/2015 at 3:40 pm
Spot on!
Lucy
on 01/01/2015 at 10:26 am
Thank you for this kind post, Nat. It helps taking the pressure off a bit during these end of the year ruminations.
It’s been three years now since my husband told he had an affair, he wanted to move in with her, and she is pregnant. All in the ciurse of Christmas / New Year. They live happily togehter now and he sees his other children every weekend. The children love their new little brother, and I have always taken care not to speak badly to them about their father or the other woman because I didn’t want them to have to take sides.
So all sems “fine” and more and more friends are saying I should be over it by now and should go out there start dating again. I am myself my worst critic, I feel like a total failure, pathetic that after the casual relationship with the very EUM I had for about a year after my husband left me everything just collapsed inside of me and I have hid in a shell since.
I have been so NOT out ther, it’s a laugh. I even let myself put on quite some weight, not on purpose, of course, but unconsciously also a sure method of being less attractive and avoid meeting someone.
It’s not that I would want to be with my Ex husband again. After all, who wants a man that goes around knocking up other women while he is still married, and who would rather press the erase and rewind button than work things out. And it’s not that I am not over the EUM yet. I can see him for what he is and that he would never be able to give me the love, care, trust and respect I want. so it’s not them.
The problem is, that I am just massively scared. I do know how I don’t want to be treated. But that doesn’t mean i believe that I can find someone who will treat me the way I want, with love care trust and respect. And even if I met someone, how could this fit in with the children and work? And could I let someone into my life, who would at some point leave again? And then this voice comes in my head again, telling me, you should be over it by now, it’s been three years goddamnit, get your act together, don’t be so pessimistic, you are pathetic.
But Nats post showed me that it’s maybe time for some self-compassion. Maybe it’s not totally odd that I am not over it yet, living happily ever after in a new new relationship. I have decided for 2015 I will not put any pressure on myself for having or wanting to find someone. Instead I will learn come up with love, car, trust, and respect for myself. I will be self-compassionate, treat myself well, do something for my health. I will enjoy being with my children without comparing myself to The Pefect Mom TM. I will enjoy work without always having to overachieve because my self-worth isn’t equal to my success at work. And I will nurture, revive and build friendships and be open to meet new people, so I have a social life besides work and children. If I achieve that, who cares, if I am in a relationship or not. I will probably be damn happy.
Happy New Year!
V.
on 01/01/2015 at 8:37 pm
Dear Lucy,
– “more and more friends are saying I should be over it by now and should go out there start dating again”: this is superficial advice given by people who clearly have never gone through something as rough as you have, otherwise they woudn’t be speaking this lightly to you;
– “The problem is, that I am just massively scared.” That is an important sign from yourself that signals that you may be not ready yet: so don’t force it. Take your time. When you are ready you will know, because you will feel curious and hopeful and maybe even joyous towards what’s next expecting you.
– “and I have always taken care not to speak badly to them about their father or the other woman because I didn’t want them to have to take sides.” This is incredible. I have never heard or known personally anybody who really does this. That is very generous of you, and you should give yourself extra, super-extra cudos because what you’re doing is way beyond your duties of ex-wife, incredibly caring towards your children, and a completely free gift to the other woman.
– “And then this voice comes in my head again, telling me, you should be over it by now, it’s been three years goddamnit, get your act together, don’t be so pessimistic, you are pathetic.” It might be helpful to identify who these voices actually belong to, from the people that surrounded you in your childhood or adolescence (and maybe you’ll find an echo of this in some of your friends’ words now).
Best wishes, V.
Lucy
on 01/01/2015 at 9:45 pm
Thank you, V. That’s very kind and very helpful!! 🙂
Suki
on 02/01/2015 at 12:12 am
Lucy, you sound so self-aware and in touch with your situation. Yes it is scary to be alone and to worry about the future. I think self-awareness is the thing that if we cultivate will keep us true and happy. E.g. you might meet an EU or AC or just someone not right for you. But self-awareness will prevent you getting too deep. If you’re in touch with your feelings and know how you want to be treated – you will manage fine then. Add on one extra element – knowing how to act. E.g. if you feel you’re being treated badly, do you trust yourself to know how to act appropriately?
Its okay if something doesnt work out as long as it doesnt hurt us in the process, as long as its good while it lasts. Most of us are here because we are or were in relationships that werent good while they lasted.
You can’t predict the future. Your ex cheated on you and made you distrustful and afraid of the uncertainty of others behavior. Perhaps it makes you anxious and wanting to control outcomes. You could reflect on your ex relationship some more – perhaps the way it ended has come to dominate how you think about relationships or even about your ex and about yourself in relationships, whereas whats important is the way it was before that end. The end was not about you, your ex left. Before that, it was about the two of you together. What stories have you told yourself about your ex relationship and its end? How do those stories make you feel about the future? Those stories are not facts, but they might be limits you are setting on your possibilities.
Lucy
on 03/01/2015 at 7:26 pm
Suki, thank you for those wise questions. You really got me thinking!
I guess I trust myself enough to spot amber or red flags, but I am not sure I would know how to act on those yet. In fact I have been playing back my casual experience with the EUM a number of times, and although I know this had been going on far too long, I still can’t figure out at what point exactly I should have said enough or what I should have done earlier. E.g. if I met someone now who (like the EUM) would almost solely rely on communication via text messages, I would recognize it as lazy behaviour, but what would I actually do, when would I opt out? At the moment for me it would be either “stay” or “run” – which might be a little disproportionate at times. 😉 I guess this comes down to self-confidence, inner balance, and how I would be able to deal with rejection (real or imagined). So it might be better to give myself some more time to get my act together before I go out there.
And you are right asking about the stories I am telling myself about the relationship and its end. At the moment it’s still about it having been my fault / not being good enough / a bad person etc. I have to put that more into perspective to learn where I acutally should have done things differently and where it was out of my control.
Suki
on 04/01/2015 at 11:20 pm
Lucy, I think there is no set time to get out. The right guy never slips through your fingers – either he’s not right, or you werent ready. Trust your actions and judgment, and trust that there are always chances for do-overs. If he’s the right guy, he’ll step up. But the odds are the lazy texter will not step up, or if he does you’ll find there are other lazy things about him.
My own experience from the EU/AC was that it was a couple years after the relationship that I could be indifferent, and 3-4 years before I could see my role in it and try to imagine his side of it. It takes time to have perspective especially in the case of AC where there was so much bad stuff and it wasn’t just incompatibility.
I think continued rejection is the problem, not reject per se – the problem is being with someone that takes pleasure from rejecting you after you have both made investments, or that is afraid of their own desires for intimacy [hot/cold], or is managing down your expectations, or is a mess, or whatever. So its not how to deal w being rejected but how to even realize that you have been rejected and then to not give that person the chance to reject you again. This I think is the hard bit – but you know if it takes you 3 instead of 1 month to get out of a meh or bad relationship, its okay. Dont judge yourself harshly for that.
Colly
on 01/01/2015 at 11:51 am
Oh what a hangover for New Years Day, and not through drink but through going and breaking NC, I’m utterly gutted with myself. It’s early days but I’d been proud that I’d been NC since Dec 17, had resisted responding to a fishing for attention email from ex MM on Dec 26, then yesterday I cracked and responded to a new mail sent Dec 30 overnight. I feel so horrible. It was the same pattern, once I’ve thrown him a response to suggest I still love him he’s gone again until he needs some reassurance again.
I don’t know when I’m going bounce back. When am I going to stop my false hoping? I know I wouldn’t want what was on offer even if he turned up on my doorstep tomorrow. I just can’t quite let it go and move forward, I can’t allow myself to bounce back.
I’m hoping you have all been stronger than me this New year…and to those of you that have joined me in breaking NC…shit it hurts doesn’t it?
Veracity
on 01/01/2015 at 3:33 pm
Colly,
I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. Please be kind to yourself; you deserve it.
Veracity
Veracity
on 01/01/2015 at 2:56 pm
Hi, I’m hoping to receive some advice about moving on and in which way I should do it. I have spent about 6 weeks going over it in my mind and cannot decide. I didn’t want to rush the decision, but I’m still unsure. I may be just scared. Would you please give me an objective opinion?
I’ve known this person for 25 years. His mom used to live next door and she was a saint! I loved her. She was grandma Helen to my daughter. Her son is my age and I saw him periodically, but he would show up briefly and leave. We stayed in loose contact. As his mom got older he started *acting* more interested in people. I have since realized he is trying to ride on his mom’s reputation and take it on as his own. He wants everyone one to believe he is a harmless saint. He is spectacular at it!!!
He has a harem of single women like me, around his age, that he will go and do social things with, mostly in a group of 2 or 3 of us. He’s always a perfect gentlemen. Most of these women are attracted to him and, at some level think they have a chance with him. I’ve talked with them and because of the way he acts – opening doors, very complimentary, treats them like a queen, takes them nice places, etc..they think he might be interested in them but it will take time. I used to think this way too until a couple of years ago, when I came right out and asked him!
He’s an attorney and he recently told someone that he works smart, not hard and it struck me, a moment of clarity, like his mask was slipping. He pretends to help people, but he really does as little as possible to have the appearance and glory of helping, but he hasn’t done much of anything. He passes it off to someone else or doesn’t do the work and acts like he did. Often his pretending to do something and not doing it hurts the person because they believe he did it. He said he looked over my father’s trust and that my stepmother could legally raid it. My intuition told me she couldn’t, so I hired another attorney and sure enough, she was not allowed to touch it. He pretended to review it thoroughly, but he didn’t! I have similar examples, but this is his MO.
He tells me things like “you’re perfect, don’t change” “you are a pearl of great price” and whenever i would say, hey, what do you mean when you say things like that, he would say something like, oh, I just like to make sure I tell people in my life how much I appreciate them. Then he would disappear for a month and come back stronger…
I have a small consulting business and he is a client. He was introducing me to people as his law clerk. It was so demeaning. I finally told him how demeaning it was and asked him to stop. He did, but it’s interesting how he never introduced me as his friend. He said he compartmentalized people by where he knows them from. Which is funny, because if that were true, wouldn’t I be an old friend? I think he gets and ego boost at having a law clerk; it puts me in the one-down position.
The last straw for me was when I agreed to go to this great event with him and his harem. He said that “he would have a hard time keeping his eyes off me in that (cocktail) attire, but he would be a gentleman”. WTF! I was so pissed I just wanted to rip his face off and slap him with it! I still feel that way. I’m so disgusted. He is a total fraud. A creepy, disgusting, conniving, fraud. I feel sick that it took me so long to see it.
I sent a response asking why he would say that to me and he replied (true to form, who me?, I’m hapless and harmless) “Just a complement that you look nice especially in a formal dress— I hope you do not take any harm in the comment—only the best of intentions. Smiles! chip”
I let him know “When you say things like that I feel very uncomfortable. We are friends and that’s not how I speak to my friends and I do not appreciate being spoken to in that way”. He said he was sorry for any offense and I let him know I wasn’t comfortable going anymore. to which he replied “I am so sorry. You are a beautiful person inside and out. I value you as a friend. In the future I promise to keep emails to who what where and when and omit any commentary as emails do not easily reflect my inflection and context. If there is anything I can to make amends, just let me know. Regards, sincerely, your friend, chip
I didn’t respond. I get he’s using and manipulating me. I get that he’s counting on me not seeing that he’s a fraud (or a psycho, narcissist?). He wants me and everyone else to believe he is harmless, but he is anything but. I do not want a friendship with him, nor do i want him as a client anymore (I researched and edited a published pamphlet for him for which he said I would get credit, he didn’t give me credit).
Because of the way he responded…apologetic and remorseful…I feel like a jerk for not spelling it out to him before closing the door. Am I being too nice and/or naive? What, if anything should I say to him? I wrestle with whether or not he is doing all of this consciously. part of me thinks he knows exactly what he is doing.
I know it’s easier for me to look at others’ situations clearly and objectively, I’m hoping my situation is very clear to you and that I’m just too close to it to see clearly.
Thank you for reading and any insights/advice you have. I’m grateful to Nat and all of you. This site is the support I need to stay strong in my journey to healing myself and creating healthy, loving relationships.
Happy New Year!
Veracity
Diane
on 01/01/2015 at 3:36 pm
Sounds like a sociopath, which doesn’t mean he goes around killing people, but that he’s a social predator. He knows exactly what to say and what to do superficially (open doors, etc) to get people to do exactly what he wants them to do. I’d say if you feel uncomfortable with him as your client, just say so, and drop him. If he’s giving you huge amounts of money you don’t want to give up, then say you must keep your relationship more professional, and stop doing social things with him and block him. Ask yourself seriously if there is not some chance you are enjoying this empty flattery and that’s why you are choosing not to cut ties with him. Thank god you didn’t not get involved sexually or expect him to become your boyfriend. I actually know of a guy EXACTLY like this. He has strung along my friend for YEARS before she finally wisened up. He would text her constantly saying things like, “How are you, beautiful? missing you today. thinking of you always, etc” but when she would dare press the issue of their relationship and wanting more he would act all innocent and basically be like “Why would you think I’d want more?” Meanwhile he was using her for professional connections, help with his computer, a place to stay when he needed it, etc. Finally she also found out that the whole time he was sending texts like this, he was living with another woman. That’s what these guys are.
Diane
on 01/01/2015 at 3:45 pm
I would add that his exact diagnosis (sociopath? narc?) makes no difference and whether he’s doing this on purpose or not makes no difference. the point is you have seen through his act, feel uncomfortable and used and betrayed, and don’t need someone like this as a “friend.”
Veracity
on 01/01/2015 at 9:35 pm
Thanks, Diane. So no explanation necessary…just don’t do anything with him socially and he’ll get the message.
I get the feeling that when I stop responding to him socially that he’ll stop sending business my way. Maybe not, he still might want to keep his foot in the door with the business stuff.
I used to be very flattered by his compliments! Once I saw through him they just enraged me.
I’m leaning toward fading him out completely. I think it’s hard for me not because of him, but he is the last of my long time “friends”. In a way it’s perfect timing, new year, new friends…real friends.
V.
on 01/01/2015 at 8:56 pm
Hello Veracity,
yes it is clear as the blue sky from the outside, and I think you’re almost there too, maybe you only need a last little push.
You have offered this person so many chances to do right by you that you cannot have any doubt about whether you (!) are being the jerk or not. Just let it go. When you have taken the final decision and acted it out, you’ll find out soon enough if you were right about it or not. If the protokoll doesn’t lie, when this man finds out that you aren’t buying into his lies any more, he’ll probably cut you out/ignore you completely. At least that is the best case scenario.
Take care, V.
Veracity
on 02/01/2015 at 2:14 pm
Hello V., Thank you for your kind, insightful response. I did need a little push and a reality check that I wasn’t being mean or rude just dropping him after 25 years without comment. I’m working on not buying into the guilt that I feel for protecting myself.
Take care, Veracity
Suki
on 01/01/2015 at 11:51 pm
Veracity, this is a lot of drama my friend. A silly humorless bore of a man is not your friend. Just dont go out with him – why are you prolonging the drama? All those texts, all those emotions! I think someone wrote very nicely earlier to avoid ‘soul revealing long’ emails… Exhausting. You’re both being EU – hanging out with people that cannot offer real intimacy or friendship. He sounds super super creepy. Shudder. He’s your client, keep it professional.
If someone found you creepy, would you appreciate being told that? No. And neither does he, so he denies it, and plays the creepy gallant. Theres no point telling people that are not in your family or important long term relationship when they have creeped you out [even within your family etc you’ll get denials and it leads to fights unless both parties are super mature]. It never ends well, I know from experience. By all means write dramatic emails if you enjoy it, but if its keeping you mired in the drama, then thats a choice you’re making. I am all for calling people on their behavior but its best done immediately, quickly, briefly, and without drama. Your own feelings should not be so involved as to guide your actions toward drama. You’re thinking too much about him, not enough about yourself. And all you did was tell someone creepy, that they’re creepy. Done and done. You didn’t embezzle money or break up a family or commit treason. Its an everyday social occurrence. Cut contact.
[fyi; I had someone say something to me that I took to be insulting. I immediately called them on it [I just said that thing is insulting], they looked kind of shocked that I was saying that, but then I proceeded to be friendly and chatty. Later I learnt that this person is a basically good awkward person always putting their foot in their mouth. So I felt bad because its partly my over-reaction, and also because this person is really kind of immature and not a bad person. But I’m not going to apologize or reopen that – I’m just as friendly as I am to others when I see them. Thats it. Maybe I made a little mistake in that the thing the person said is in my professional circle seen as somewhat insulting but they didn’t know that. Thats okay. Maybe this person will always feel a bit bad around me, not fully comfortable. Thats okay too, all I can do is treat them fairly from here on out. Calling someone out on their behavior has its consequences, and its important to figure out how to deal with those. My anecdote I dont think describes creepy uncle above so ignore him].
Veracity
on 02/01/2015 at 2:39 pm
Suki, I see where you’re coming from. My letting him know I was uncomfortable was my way of setting a boundary with him and seeing if he would respect it and see if he would deny it or blame it on me. It was, in my mind, my last ditch effort to see if the relationship was salvageable. I don’t see that as drama, but perhaps it is.
Sending a response does feel like drama (but I also felt like maybe I was overreacting and being a jerk), and I’m glad I took the time to check my feelings and have not sent one.
I’m finding it tricky to discern what is a healthy response to someone and what is a reaction that has old stuff rolled into it, so it’s an overreaction. I know this has old stuff in it…so that’s why the need for the reality check. It feels great to recognize these unhealthy people and situations, but I realize I have a lot to learn about what a healthy, appropriate response looks like.
Ethelreda the Unready
on 02/01/2015 at 2:37 am
Oh Veracity – you know what I think?
I think this man is quite possibly gay. If he’s not gay, then at the very least he has a major, major problem with women, verging on hatred.
I know I’ve said this before on this site, and it’s not just my ‘thing’, but these behaviours you describe indicate to me a man who has had a bad relationship with his ‘saintly’ mother, and who resents women as a result.
– harem collecting and manipulation
– the ‘little gentleman’ act
– the failure to have a committed relationship with a woman
– intimacy-dodging = fear of being smothered by a woman
These men LOVE pretending to be eligible bachelors, when they are anything but. The last EUM I was involved with was one of these. And they love nothing more than having women in the harem fighting over who is going to be the lucky one he dates.
I would walk away from this one. I know the packaging looks very attractive, as on paper he is Such A Nice Man, but I think actually there’s something quite wrong here, and that you will be terribly used and hurt by this man.
happy b
on 02/01/2015 at 11:58 am
Veracity, you come across very strong to me because his MO seems exactly like my ex EU AC, down to the mixture of saintliness and dirtiness and the faux-sincerity, the ‘gentleman’ act and ‘hapless and harmless’ act (this drove women crazy, literally). I was hooked for years, in complete denial. It was interesting to see later on how many women had defected and moved on, and how many men knew instantly that he was shady, while all I could see was his followers, including men who he was ‘brotherly’ with, all competing for attention. It’s sad that I and harem members must have all been so starved of genuine affection and intimacy that this nonsense could gain a foothold.
Interesting what Ethelreda says, I came to the same conclusion that he must hate me and other women. Give me grumpy and blunt over smooth charm any day, there’s often a true gentleman underneath it instead of an empty vessel.
You don’t seem in danger of being hooked or even too emotionally attached. If you need to keep him in your life for the sake of business, just be as polite as you need to be and ridicule his ‘innocent’ compliments as they come without a deep conversation about it. Well done for seeing the light.
Veracity
on 02/01/2015 at 6:38 pm
happy b, It’s funny because the dirtiness was recently added to the mix. As he saw me pulling back and distancing myself, setting boundaries, he got increasingly aggressive and provacative! The other stuff was his standard MO.
I’ve also thought that it was/is sad how desperate for love, attention and affection I was to fall for it.
Your response helped me to remember feeling that way; he started moving in on me right after my divorce. It was just my daughter and I and I didn’t have emotional support. He’s no fool! He’s a predator.
I’m moving swiftly in the direction away from charm. I’ve stated before that it’s kinda like stinky cheese to me after a while. This guy was the one to help me see that. I prefer someone who will tell it to me straight as best as they can and let me deal with it, rather than snow me and keep me in the dark so he can manipulate me.
Your empty vessel analogy struck me. I was just thinking about that the other day, a new guy I met (who is also charming) struck me as an empty vessel who was looking for me to fill it for him. I said no thanks.
Right now I feel super vulnerable and exposed so I’m gonna stay away from relationships for a while.
Did your ex EUM like this leave you alone when you made it clear you were on to him?
Thank you for your insights and advice as well as your kind and compassionate words of encouragement.
happy b
on 02/01/2015 at 10:58 pm
Veracity, I do feel for you after knowing him 25 years. I thought my experience was epic for being a 14 year ‘friendship’.
It’s familiar to me that he moved in after your divorce. My ex-AC had a definite pattern of going to women when they were in a vulnerable state – bereavement, illness, marriage breakdown. He didn’t go for conventionally attractive women but they would always be strong, smart, feisty and independent, going through a rough time. He would drop everything for them and give his all, then disappear when they became dependent on him. Going back to the empty vessel thing, I saw it as him having a very hungry ego that would be satisfied once he got their devotion, then he would get cold feet and go after someone else for a new fix, leaving them even weaker, then he’d return and make it all ok again, rinse and repeat. There might have been some truth in the hapless, innocent act – I don’t think this MO was all premeditated, but it’s what happened repeatedly, so he was/is predatory.
You ask if he left me alone after I told him I was onto him – it makes me laugh because really I always knew what he was like, and he would even joke about his ‘victims’, but I had cognitive dissonance and thought I could be the exception to the rule and he would somehow learn we had a good thing.
Then I wrote him a long letter telling him his behaviour and moved out, but I still carried on seeing him for some time after that. It took a minor incident, catching him red-handed being slippery with the truth, that made me tell him to stay away. Considering how long we’d known each other, he made very little effort to get me back after that, no doubt he could distract himself easily and was never really emotionally involved anyway.
I used to be so scared of being consigned to his dustbin of needy, crazy exes, as I no doubt am, but at least this is real and I know who I am again, and I can appreciate those women now even if no one else in his world does. His friends kind of know his MO but trivialise it and blame the women for getting attached, ‘he’s just too kind and giving and they want to take more than he can give’.
You sound very switched on about all of this. I can’t quite tell if/how romantically involved you were, but it sounds like there was enough emotional involvement for his disappearances to hurt and that he probably held you back from recovering and finding a healthy relationship. I’m sorry that you feel vulnerable, I can only say, being 3 years down the line, that the freedom of being away from the drama is really wonderful. I have since fallen for charm again and made other mistakes, but am still happy to be out of that dark place I was in with the AC. On the other hand, I look back fondly on the early stages of rebuilding and discovering myself and the world again, I hope it’s the same for you.
Veracity
on 03/01/2015 at 3:51 pm
happy b, Thank you. 25 years is a long time and yes, it was strictly a friendship. Off and on over the years I wondered if he might be interested in more when he “turned it on”, but then I would check myself and remind myself that that was just who he was. I didn’t see how he was using me, I just bought the kind, harmless and hapless bit. That is why I chose to stay in the ‘friendship’.
!4 years is a long time too. Good for you getting away from him. Who cares what he thinks?!
The MO you mentioned about going for women when they are vulnerable sounds right, and smart and capable does too! I have been pretty passive (currently changing) although I can be fiesty. In the past I protected others better than I protected myself.
I am switched on about this, and I’ll use a sweater analogy to help to describe why. This experience (realization) with this man is a thread connected to a sweater; I’ve been unraveling this sweater for a while. This particular thread seems to be a very important one, not because of who this person is, but more what he represents (or whom). You mentioned cognitive dissonance before; I believe this is key for me. I think I’ve woken up and am now seeing clearly, seeing things as they are, not as how I want them to be. I’m learning to trust that what I see is really happening and responding on that information. I’m also still learning how to respond (or if I should).
Not seeing/trusting is a habit of thought I need to change. Getting confidence in my ability to respond effectively is also a goal.
He may have held me back in some ways; I don’t think I was ready to see it/him until I did. I kept running into similar versions of him (selfish, uncaring, huge ego, wanting me to carry the emotional load, to chase them). I call it same guy, different pants syndrome. When that happens, I know I need to pay attention ’cause that lesson is gonna keep coming around until I get it. I was stuck.
I fell for a guy recently who was a lot like this guy in many ways, but was actively showing signs of mutual interest but I sensed he wanted me to chase him. When I realized who he really was it hurt deeply. I had also had a startling, and hurtful realization about two women who were recent acquaintances. All of that was happening at the same time as this situation was coming to a head and around the holidays. It was kind of a reality sunami!
I feel raw and vulnerable because of the feelings that I have unearthed, not because of him. I’m unstuck (!) and I’m feeling what I have avoided feeling for so long.
I’m so glad that you have moved on and are out of the drama. You sound happy and comfortable in your own skin. These ‘mistakes” we make are opportunities for growth. You sound like you have come a long way!
I’m grateful for this conversation. Thank you, happy b!
happy b
on 03/01/2015 at 11:16 pm
“I have been pretty passive (currently changing) although I can be fiesty. In the past I protected others better than I protected myself.”
Interesting, I could say exactly the same. I would so like to meet BR commenters because there are probably lots of similar traits. This passiveness might be by your own terms. I say this because I’ve commented to a few close people that I used to be passive, and feel like I’ve transformed – but I believe them when they say they didn’t see the ‘before’ me in that way. To them I was just going through a rough time. It’s reassuring to me that they don’t see such an extreme ‘before and after’, since a dramatic outward transformation might not be genuine. I don’t think people would particularly describe me as feisty (except for ol’ silver tongue’) but it comes in bursts and I’ve always had a strong position on things.
I’m also very interested in your discussion with Mephista about the EUM subtype getting you to chase them, this really resonates and makes me wonder if it’s why so much of my romantic history is humiliating, so much ‘same guy, different pants’ as you say. I have definitely encountered and fallen for one of this subtype in the past few years, and have now quit him, knowing it could go on and on if I let it.
Unstuck is better than stuck! Mistakes happen, it’s how we handle them that matters and making sure we quit at the right times.
Veracity
on 04/01/2015 at 2:28 pm
I’ve thought that as well. I wonder if we had similar experiences growing up.
It’s quite possible that to the outside world I don’t seem that different. It has been building all of my life. I was extremely shy, quiet, and anxious as a child. I barely spoke and when I did, I stammered. I was taught to be invisible, unless I was needed. I was taught to turn my power over to the nearest authority figure. That my role was to make them happy, so sit back and follow orders. Sad, but true.
I’m learning to pay attention to what I think/want and express it/do it. It’s still challenging for me because I think there’s a part of me that thinks (believes?) I am bad/wrong if I do that.
“I’m also very interested in your discussion with Mephista about the EUM subtype getting you to chase them, this really resonates and makes me wonder if it’s why so much of my romantic history is humiliating, so much ‘same guy, different pants’ as you say”.
Humiliating. Ouch. Yes, that resonates with me as well. For me, I’ve felt the hurt, confusion and anger for “having” to chase someone for attention, love, affection only to be rejected. I read that sentence now and it makes no sense to me. Why would I do that to myself?
I’ve been reading this book on boundaries and she, Rokelle Lerner, talks about relationship patterns, how to spot them, what they mean, and how to heal. I’ve found it very helpful. I started reading it about a month ago, I devoured it, then got overwhelmed ’cause it’s a lot of information! I plan to revisit it again very soon, this time more thoughtfully.
Cheers to quitting at the right time!
happy b
on 05/01/2015 at 7:48 am
There are similarities. I was very quiet and anxious too, and a people pleaser, but think that was just my nature. I do know that in teenage years I was often silenced and told that my feelings were wrong. It’s challenging to be expressive but also feels like a whole new world opens up, the results are good. As I write this, I remember that even a few years ago I felt like no one listened and like there were still people who told me I was wrong, but now seem to have found my voice.
It’s so interesting to hear that others have gone through the chasing experiences. Having chased 2 people post-AC to no avail, I felt like something was wrong with me. One of them is almost same guy, different pants, and I withdrew from him, realising it was a poor investment. The other didn’t seem EU, not charismatic and charming like the others – but he seemed so interested and I’d been trying to work out whether it was genuine, or if he just wanted me to be interested in him. Seems like the latter, weird. Now I think he’s a charmer in more subtle ways. I didn’t/don’t humiliate myself in front of him or others, it’s more a case of investing in the idea and then being disappointed and losing confidence in my intuition. Maybe it was just bad luck this time. I’ll look at the Lerner book.
All we can do is quit and not look back.
Veracity
on 05/01/2015 at 4:26 pm
Yes, I see more similarities now. I was also silenced and told my feelings were wrong as well as talked over (parents and older siblings) and told children were “supposed to be seen and not heard”. I’ve often wondered if it’s just my nature, but given my background, I’m not sure.
It is interesting how we grow into our voices, given the space and time to do so. I still feel sometimes that I’m not heard (usually around loud/attention seeking individuals) and have learned that it doesn’t having anything to do with whether or not I’m worthy of being heard, they are just not the listening type! Also, that those that will tell you that you are wrong likely just don’t like, or want to hear what you have to say; it may be an inconvenient truth.
I’m much more expressive now, especially one-on-one. I still have a harder time with large groups of extroverts; I tend to hang back and listen… occasionally piping in. I find them overwhelming.
I’m sure there are lots of others that have had the chasing experiences! There’s nothing wrong with you. You want love and affection like the rest of us.
Yes, I get where you are coming from! Oh boy can I relate. I understand that you don’t humiliate yourself in front of them, but feel awful (foolish, in my case)for buying into it and then not trusting your instincts because you bought in and didn’t see it. It often takes me a while to regroup and get my confidence back.
I’ve learned to pay very close attention when I meet someone new. Close attention to how I feel, as well as their body language, and what they are saying. Does what their saying match their actions/body language? Do they seem genuinely interested in me? Do they listen? That one may take a couple of outings to figure out, but they usually reveal themselves by asking something you’ve already told them, twice, in my case!
I’ve also decided that I will no longer hint, work super hard to make sure they are getting the signal I’m interested, suggest an outing, or anything even remotely like chasing! I’ve burned my chasing shoes.
It’s getting easier to do it as I’ve been practicing. The minute I find myself wanting to chase (feeling anxious that he hasn’t _______), it’s a flag, I make a mental note. Or if his behavior pings my radar as sketchy, then it’s a flag; then when I get home, I write it down. May sound strange, but I’ve found it helps me to keep myself honest and not head off to fantasy land!
I’ve also been trying to pay attention to what similarities these men have with one another and who they remind me of from the past.
It sounds like as you are growing/learning you are attracting a different type of man that has a nuance you hadn’t experienced yet, so you hadn’t learned to spot him.
Hears to looking forward!
happy b
on 05/01/2015 at 10:57 pm
I had a look at Rokelle Lerner and saw there were lots of connections to alcohol, I wonder if that’s part of your story. I have an alcoholic parent and all the damage I see is in my teens, but I know I put others before me even as a very young child, which is pretty strange. Part of having a voice is to not internalise it when people say you’re wrong, I think. I used to accept pretty much anything people told me about myself or my thoughts, but sometimes they get it wrong.
Yes, you see, it *feels* humiliating. We know even if they don’t. You’re spot on, that’s how I clocked the EU mark 2, he would act so interested and suggest a future but then couldn’t remember whereabouts I’d moved to, which is a pretty big thing, so that told me to quit.
I’m so encouraged by what you’ve said, especially the tips for avoiding fantasy land, I really don’t ever want to go there again, it’s a ridiculous place!
Veracity
on 02/01/2015 at 2:55 pm
Thank you, Ethelreda,
Wow! You have him nailed! I have wondered if he was gay (so does one of the women in the harem!)!
This is so helpful! Actually, a guy I met recently has similar “qualities”. I spotted him quickly and turned down a date. Yay, I’m learning!!
I do recognize that this reveals to me just how EU I am that I’m attracting these guys. *sigh* I have decided to stop dating so I can focus on becoming emotionally available.
I’m tired of setting myself up to be used and hurt.
Mephista
on 03/01/2015 at 12:19 am
He also sounds like a special type of EUM. This subtype doesn’t chase you or try to fast forward intimacy. Instead, they blow very hot with compliments, admiration, flattery and interested body language. They never ever make the first move, might not even initiate communications first (but they appear very happy when you call them and encourage you to
initiate further contacts). This can go on for years. The whole point is that when and if you make the first move (and they take advantage of it) they can then step back and say everything was your idea and initiative and that they weren’t/ aren’t that interested, have no idea why you thought they were interested and never wanted to have a relationship with you. They play ignorance about their own behaviour which falls into hot (words)/ cold (actions) category.
I fully understand your issue with -am I asserting my boundaries or over-reacting- but you do think and analyse this guy in far too great detail. Keep him on a minimal, professional distance if you can or need to, or flush. Don’t explain or try to resolve “issues”. These men are neither interested, worthy nor capable of understanding anything. Hey, lie and politely refuse going out with him and his harem saying you’re dating somebody else and thank him for giving you confidence again with all his compliments, haha.
Ethelreda the Unready
on 03/01/2015 at 12:21 pm
And in reality – as any lady who has been stalked/hassled/harassed knows – if a man REALLY wants to get in touch with you, he can, and will.
That’s why God made restraining orders …
Either extreme is miles away from respectful mutual communication.
Veracity
on 03/01/2015 at 4:27 pm
Oh, Mephista, you just described a guy I recently fell for! You described it so well. The explanation for the behavior makes sense.
Must be something about me (ahem, EU myself) that attracts that particular kind of guy. I have a history of trying to chase/win the guy who does not want to be caught (dad). 🙁
My agenda to catch, his agenda to run and never be caught. I’m on to myself!
For me, the first thing I pay attention to is sincere interest, or lack thereof. If they are not actively listening and genuinely looking to connect, I bow out. If I start to feel anxious and uncomfortable that is a sign that I’m feeling the need to chase and better check myself.
Guilty of over analyzing….most things!!
You’re right, they don’t care, why should I bother explaining, it’s a waste of breath/energy.
Ha!
Thank you for your insights/advice! Happy 2015!
Leanne
on 01/01/2015 at 4:09 pm
@rosie, @rags mom and @lizzp, thank you for your replies. I didn’t break NC with MM last night but I really wanted to, even if just to say “please don’t come by anymore”. I think I’m going crazy at night, so going to try going for a month without drinking (and going to bed early) because it seems to get really bad for me at night.
In answer to your question @rags, my ex, MM, his wife and I are all in our early 30s. I agree that I need to be careful with my ex and stay NC with MM. Ex is a really good guy and deserves to be happy. So I’ll think on that and what it means for him (and us). We’ve been together 11 years, so it’s hard to just let go entirely. But I agree that we shouldn’t be rushing back into things. I think it is healthy for us to spend some time apart, it’s just difficult to do but his feelings are very important. I haven’t told him everything about the situation (nor does he need to hear it I think) but he has a bit of an idea of what happened. I’m trying to be good to him, I’m just not at my best right now and not really clear on what I should do. Counseling starts next week, so hopefully that helps.
I really want to stay NC with MM and move on. I can see that this is going to be VERY difficult next week at office. When MM stopped by on Monday, he was already probing a bit about when I’ll be back in the office. I think he’ll try to poke around at some point, so I will just try to be busy when/if he does, as per suggestions here, until it stops. But man, I really hope I don’t crack! I read the post on workplace break up drama and that was very helpful. On NC day 15.. Hoping this gets easier.
Agreed @rags that the universe often gives you what you want if you make space for it. Trying to get in a good headspace for good things to come. Thanks for your words!! How are things going with hubby this week now that you’ve committed to it in your head? Do you still see/hear from your OM at all?
hope you have a great first day of 2015 everyone!
Leanne
on 01/01/2015 at 4:20 pm
And I just want to say that I know I sound like an EU whiner (as I said before), but I really really appreciate everyone’s words and support on here. This site and your comments have been the difference between me staying NC with MM and getting well vs. embarrassing myself, chasing MM, losing dignity and feeling way, way worse. I know it could easily be me right now (hell, I was almost like that in Dec when he finally made a decision and broke things off). It is so so nice to know there are people out there listening and supporting, despite my actions in getting to this place. I feel like I’ve fallen into a big dark hole, but you guys are throwing down a rope and helping me out. Thank you!!
rags mom
on 02/01/2015 at 1:59 pm
Leanne, Im sure no one here thinks u sound like a whiner, honestly ! A few may sound more well than others, cos they are further on the healing path and have had more time, but most ppl on here have gone through the same unfortunate journey …
Well done for not breaking NC ….we have all gone through the initial stages / first few rounds of NC where a few crumbs like ‘ Ive missed you’ or even ‘how its going , everything okay ?’ from them can make us fall back into the cycle, sometimes we think ‘no harm in an email now and then to know hes alive and let him know i still care’ but it gets complicated and self -hurtful all over again …
When I first left my old job, I woke every morning with a pounding headache knowing I couldnt doll up and go to work where HE would be there …. i wondered for weeks if it would get better at all …it did….eventually ….u have to know what you want tho. and be focussed on that. Be your own best friend …I look back and think there was a lot I could have done to break out of it cleaner and smarter, i dont think i made a whole hearted effort for a long time , so reflect on that , u have to really really want change to what you have been living the past 6 months or to where u know ud be headed if u had just continued being there for him ….
rags mom
on 02/01/2015 at 2:05 pm
Also, re all 3 of you being in your early 30s ( I guessed your age right !) ….or specifically you, you have already invested a couple of years of your prime on this ( you could have been out there meeting possible Mr Right’s) ….and u will still have to invest months at least healing fully from this …do u really want to waste possibly ur best years before turning 35 on being an OW or holding out to be his OW ? …I realised many doors closed at 35+ , dont waste your precious time, right now ur clinging also because moving on would be admitting u wasted 2 precious years, but not moving on can only compound your loss unfortunately …I met OM at 34 and am almost 36 now, 2 years disappeared with so much energy invested in what should have just been a pleasant friendship thats all ….few weeks of NC will crystallise all this in your thoughts
Rosie
on 03/01/2015 at 4:53 am
Rags mom- RE: “being out there meeting possible Mr. Rights”…Leanne was already in a long term committed relationship when things heated up with the MM. Jumping from man to man is a sign of a “user” mentality. People aren’t toys or objects that will solve all our problems.
Ethelreda the Unready
on 05/01/2015 at 5:48 am
I agree, Rosie. ‘The Man’ shouldn’t be the object of the exercise. What should be the object of the exercise is:
1) learning about yourself: triggers, strengths, weaknesses – especially weaknesses and ‘hooks’, by analysing past relationships.
2) learning to be happy without a relationship, even just for a while: finding out what makes YOU tick, what lights your fire, what you enjoy, outside of the couple situation.
3) learning to slow your roll when you do decide to take up dating again: using things like the 6 Month Rule to weed out fakers and psychos, listening to your spidey-senses, flagging code amber and code red behaviours.
Some of us are going to spend a LONG time at stages 1 and 2, which have to be done together anyway. I may well spend the rest of my life here, and that’s fine with me.
Inner Etheldreda/Evil Twin adds: “Of course, it’s NOT fine with me at all, really. What I REALLY want is Perfect Man and Perfect Relationship with no effort on my part, plenty of zing but no danger, plenty of fun but no problems.”
Outer Etheldreda/Good Twin replies: “And it was precisely this kind of dumbass thinking that brought me through repeated heartbreak to BR in the first place!”
Veracity
on 05/01/2015 at 4:29 pm
So true! Very funny! I suspect I’ll be hanging out in 1 & 2 for a while again!!
Reeling
on 01/01/2015 at 5:07 pm
Rags Mom,
Your situation and mine seem spookily similar…I too have been married for 11 years to a guy that is lovely but just doesn’t seem to notice me. I had an affair with a MM who was nine years my junior and lives in America (I’m UK). He claimed to have an abusive wife.
I fell crazy in love with my MM and was ready to leave my marriage, although honestly my MM treated me terribly. He was in total control, fast forwarded, blew hot and cold, blag blah blah. Still, I think it felt better to have rushes of love and pain than to be invisible as I am at home.
So in the end he decided he couldn’t leave because he was too scared about what others would think of him, even though she was allegedly abusive. He still says he will always love me and if he can ever do anything different he’ll come and find me.
I’m devastated for me, for my husband, for my loss, for everything. Like you I have a child and feel I have to give my marriage a shot for them, but I’m finding it so hard, grieving the loss makes it tough.
I know many will read this and think I deserve to be in pain because I had an affair, and I put myself through the mill too.
So Rags Mom, just thought you and I could share a few insights…
V.
on 02/01/2015 at 12:02 am
To Reeling: Don’t say that (“I know many will read this and think I deserve to be in pain because I had an affair”). That would be so heartless and narrow-minded, and if anybody ever says that to you just walk away.
You are being so hard on yourself, and besides having to shoulder the burden of a marriage that is not working (’cause that is the main point), you are punishing yourself by making the affair the worst sin commited on earth.
Wouldn’t it help you to find a good counselor? When there are such deep issues in a marriage it can be a relief to find somebody who consistently listens to and supports you. Very best wishes to you, V.
Colly
on 02/01/2015 at 9:18 am
Oh V, thank you so much for not writing me off. It’s not really me that thinks an affair is the worst thing on earth, more afraid of the judgement of others, especially when OM would not leave his wife to be with me because he believed his whole family would ostracise him.
I’ve been seeing a counsellor since I started having an affair, but seem unable to get past the affair and really deal with me.
I know my marriage is a problem I must deal with, but I honestly just wonder if it’s all down to me – like I can’t deal with a drama free pain free relationship, like I find it boring or something. I’m frightened to act on my own in case I’ve made a mistake. With OM I felt braver, and with him I could have left and started again – although acknowledge it would not have worked due to issues I haven’t dealt with plus him being an AC (I live as brother and sister with my husband, but he claimed to be in love with us both and used this to justify toe curling behaviour like having fertility treatment with his wife while having an affair with me).
Right now I just feel like being alone, to heal. Having another go at my marriage feels like starting a new relationship and I’m so not ready for that. I’d like to work on my self esteem, get out and meet some new people, but I’m honestly afraid I’d meet a man who flattered me and I’d jump into an affair to run from my problems.
I’m a mess…
rags mom
on 02/01/2015 at 1:46 pm
@reeling , wow that is beyond spooky …American ? 9 years younger ? …the only difference is that your OM was also MM …and of course , u guys actually had an affair…we didnt get that far last october before husband intervened …and then OM moved on and just stayed friends …I didnt leave my marriage either went borderline many times tho ….
How are you doing with NC ? Its hard but so neccesary , I dont think staying friends was a good idea for us , not saying thats the rule in every case tho ,…since our OM’s werent AC were they or even EU ? (how could we judge when we were unavailable as married women ourselves) …..
Wow just writing that, makes me see WHAT A MESSY situation it was, scary mess. how did things end between u and OM ? and has husband changed now ?
rags mom
on 02/01/2015 at 1:50 pm
oh sorry, I just read your post again, I read it last nite at first – so your MM /OM was definitely AC then …mine was a real good friend , but yeah things got very messy and upsetting at the end ….I could see I didnt mean nearly as much to him at all as I thought I did ….I’m glad we went NC rather than have spoil the memories of the friendship we had in the beginning …we met for only a week when we had an office meet at his location …
Colly
on 02/01/2015 at 8:09 pm
@rags mom, yes, American and 9 years my junior. I wish I had been more restrained as you had, or do you i? Mmm, you know I’m not sure if I regret it completely because I did have a blissful three months – then followed by a strained three months, then three months from hell that now continues in his absence.
We spent 7 full weeks together 24/7 over the course of our 9 month affair, working on the same project at various global locations – all wildly romantic in way I suppose. In between it was hours of FaceTime each week day and email at weekends.
I didn’t realise he was an AC at first, I was blown very hot and fast forwarded. After 3 months I started to wonder where this guy had gone, and began to feel very very miserable about being the OW – it was never how I wanted my life to be.
Six months in we had what we both still describe as out best week together, it was amazing. When we came home we both felt it was too painful to be apart. My solution was for us to be together and his was that we had to part. If all had ended there it would have been for the best, but it didn’t…
I couldnt believe he wanted to finish things, and he did want to but wanted to keep things going as long as we could reasonably see each other – until the end of the project. I was distraught, and instead of walking away with my dignity intact I stuck in there and hoped that when it came to it he wouldn’t be able to leave me and we’d be together.
It was at this point I learned what an AC he was – having fertility treatment with his wife while still with me. Oh yes, and one day suggesting I join him at the clinic by FaceTime to help him out with tossing off to get his wife pregnant! My soul was screaming with revulsion, and I didn’t take part, but I still stayed and hoped.
Things were getting fraught between us and along the way he revealed his wife was abusive. Looking back you have to wonder whether this was a lie to make me feel sorry for him and not want to leave. I turned into arm chair psychologist then and tried to coach him into believing he deserved better ie me.
So at the end of Sept we had our last week together (which I wasn’t really keen on having because I didn’t feel I needed to travel to a different country to be dumped but was tied because of work). He finished with me as planned and we went our separate ways. While I did not want to be the OW at all anymore I did still want him, but more like I couldn’t believe how badly I’d effed up and wanted to believe he was my destiny.
NC has been extremely hard. He wanted to be friends but I couldn’t do it. The project finished so we didn’t have to work together everyday, but still do from time to time. The trouble is that if he travels somewhere or has a bad time at home he calls me and we both end up in tears. Or lately he’s developed a habit of going silent for ages, then sending a veiled email about work but not, then works an “I love you” from me, and then blanks me when I try and start a conversation. I’ve been trying to be totally NC over Xmas but cracked at New Year and have been left crushed by it.
So, not a happy story.
Hubby is still the same, he never notices me doing anything, so long as the dinner is cooked and the washing done then all is good. I remain invisible.
Reeling Colly
on 02/01/2015 at 9:06 pm
@rags mom. Sorry to you and all, I should say here I have posted as both Reeling and Colly. I was so frightened nobody would want to write back to Reeling because she/I had been unfaithful that I wrote as Colly too and omitted my infidelity. I blew my own cover above and I’m so glad I have, I feel better to have to whole me out there now. Sorry, never meant to deceive anyone, just frightened of my own shadow I guess.
Ethelreda the Unready
on 05/01/2015 at 5:51 am
Reeling Colly, you have my full sympathy, not condemnation.
I’m curious about your husband, because I think you’re right in identifying the marriage as the key relationship and the key problem here.
What made you choose him to marry? Has he always been this distant?
Colly
on 05/01/2015 at 10:03 am
Hi Ethelreda,
Interesting questions about my husband and ones I do ponder. As far as his distance goes, I can’t work out whether he is just totally absent, or so very present, or maybe flips between the two depending on who he’s with and what he’s doing. I think I might have pushed him to be absent with me quite a lot of the time.
As for why I married him…When we started seeing each other I was feeling good and feeling good about being single – I think (I’d recently got burned from trying to return to the scene of a crime with an ex and when it hadn’t worked out and id walked away I was feeling lighter and happy with myself). Being with him was very very easy, no drama, but I did allow it to consume me and take away me. When I got married 3 years into our relationship I was happy to do it but it didn’t feel like the happiest day of my life as some people describe, more like what should happen and I wanted the attention off me quickly. That said, I did intend it to be forever and I did love him.
Over the years we forged different career paths, I became very successful and travelled a lot for work, and I think we just drifted apart. I had also grown up with long time married parents who showed no affection for each other or their children, so I think I ended up replicating my parental home.
One thing I do keep coming back to us whether I married him because he would have me. He was the first man who’d stuck around for more than 6 months, and he also wasn’t embroiled in drama like all my previous exes. Perhaps I married him for the right reasons but don’t know how to deal with someone who is available and/or not drama prone?
So hard to fathom. I feel so lost as me I don’t really know. I feel guilty just breathing at the moment, so hard to not take everything on myself.
Eyes Wide Open
on 01/01/2015 at 7:21 pm
I need you ladies to provide input if so, we might as well laugh at some the bizarre behavior we see. Have any of you found these EUM men told on to items that have your perfume (or in my case besides that my ex held on to a pillow that has my mascara from when id stay with him) ? I read somewhere this is common weird EUM behavior. These guys are so strange !!!
Diane
on 02/01/2015 at 2:39 am
Yes, actually this is explained in “Men Who Can’t Love.” They hold on to things because “just in case” in the future they want to contact you and send out feelers to see if you’ll jump on board again, they have a “reason” to. My ex held on to my bike and a few other items. I really wanted the bike back, but had to harangue him for weeks about it.
Diane
on 02/01/2015 at 3:10 am
@EyesWideOpen, sorry I totally misread your post! I thought you were talking about holding onto items you owned. As for the other stuff, yeah, my EUM did that in the beg of the relationship, he held on to panties of mine, I didn’t even know it until months later. Who knows on that one. Maybe they can bond with a pillow or panties better than with a human being! 🙂
Incognito
on 02/01/2015 at 12:51 pm
I found the opposite with the ex eum he made sure I never ever left a single thing behind when leaving his place.
Once a necklace of mine broke and I must have lost the tiny clasp part I had no idea would have never missed it he called me and told me he had it I didn’t understand what he meant at the time and just said I would pick it up next time I was there.
Well when he showed me this tiny tiny clasp that was broken I said what good will that be throw it away.
After that incident he was even more vigilant that I had everything.
Diane
on 02/01/2015 at 4:11 pm
OMG! So bizarre. LOLZ. What a crazy man. He was probably worried another woman would find the clasp.
Sofia
on 03/01/2015 at 3:14 am
One time I left my tea cup at his place ( I had brought it because he doesn’t drink tea or coffee and just recently moved from another place so didn’t purchase much at that point for dishes etc. and I wanted to have my tea in the morning.). He rushed to bring it back as soon as possible. Perhaps he even met me up that evening just to get the cup back!!! It is so odd. Now, Diane you made me think perhaps he was cheating. I don’t care anymore. But truly their behavior is weird, whatever the reason…
Another story: I wanted to take an extra shower gel bottle he had. I really liked the smell but could never find it in the stores in my vicinity and it reminded me of him, so I asked if I could borrow one since he had an extra. He almost screamed “No way, you must be crazy!” Not out of greediness of course but because if I use the same shower gel, that’s too intimate. Wow.
Diane
on 03/01/2015 at 9:54 pm
One time I managed to talk to a girl that my exEUM was seeing behind my back. I found her and got in touch with her, she had no idea about me. But she said, “No wonder he was so eager that I take all of my cooking utensils home with me!” She had apparently gone to his apartment one evening and cooked him a dinner and when she left the next day he bundled them all up and, she said, practically pushed them on her as she left. I was like, yep, that’s so I wouldn’t see them.
But I also think it can be just a case of an emotionally unavailable person not wanting you to start thinking you share space or live there or have any rights to the apartment, etc. One day you leave a comb, the next you might be asking for a key.
Diane
on 03/01/2015 at 9:57 pm
Oh, and another story: One time when we were broken up he begged and begged to get back together. I finally agreed to meet him out for a drink but told him he needed to bring this face cream I had left at his place. It was very expensive and I wanted it back. I told him it was in a green bottle. Well, he shows up at the bar and I say “Did you bring my face cream?” and he gets this very self-satisfied look on his face and … brings out another girl’s face cream. yep, it was in a green bottle but was not mine! Well, that was the end of the evening. So no wonder these guys are paranoid about women leaving things behind!
Sofia
on 02/01/2015 at 4:52 pm
That was my experience too, Incognito. I could not leave even a cotton ball and a liquid for makeup removal. Forget about any other personal items. One time he called me while I was driving home from his place, telling me about the items I forgot. Big deal, I said, I will pick up later. They are agitated and nervous about it. So odd. And another part is jumping off the bed right after sex and taking a shower immediately. Like it will stick to the guts or something. Weird things I never experienced with couple committed examples I did have.
As far as the subject of the topic: as always it is right where I am right now. It is nearing a year of the breakup and I feel I am doing well with occasional bumps and lows. But throughout these months I have learned to recognize that these down times become less frequent and the intensity diminishes with time, naturally. With every month, or every quarter, but the pain does fade. Maybe not fast enough, but it does. Holidays, for most of you, I am sure caused you some pain. But we survived. No contact sent or received. Those who did break NC, don’t beat yourself up. It’s just a part of the recovery and healing process. Next time you won’t because you wouldn’t even want to. As for people who say that you have to be over by now and moved on, distance from them and/or never raise the topic of your pain again. Confide in another person and if there is no such person, share it here. What I recently started understanding is that our values and boundaries are infringed upon too when someone tells us how we should feel or not feel. I have been building my self-esteem from the scratch for several months and come to the point where others’ opinions about how I should live and feel don’t affect me. These are our lives to live and it’s nobody’s business to tell us that we should be healed and recovered by now. Everyone has her/his time frame. As time goes by we feel better and stronger in the recovery process, so we have less need or no need at all to express our continuing pain moving on. So at some point we can deal with it on our own. That’s another thing that I learned that I can manage now with dealing with my feelings myself. I don’t need to pour them out and seek for validation from others all the time like I used to do all my life (with close people). I feel so much more stable on my own and can sit with my own feelings and thoughts. So it’s only up to you to know and feel that you are moved on. It is nobody’s business. That’s my take on it.
Eyes Wide Open
on 01/01/2015 at 7:22 pm
Correction to the above- hold on to items *
I Can't Even
on 02/01/2015 at 12:22 am
I have been trying so hard to bounce back with new boundaries, self esteem, etc. My AC told me two months ago we shouldn’t talk until the New Year at least. Said it was “best for us both.” I started NC after that, and of course he’s calling me up at 3am New Year’s Eve. I did reverse number search to verify it was him. Who does he think he is? I’m trying to stick to my guns cuz I know I won’t ever bounce back if I respond. I almost hate him for feeling so entitled. But NC is giving me back my power. I am numb and feel like I’ll never love again. It’s been almost as long as we’ve been apart as when we were together. Why oh why does he want to be able to hit me up whenever. I will no longer cater to his flip flapping ways. It’s such a disappointment. His character is so shifty. I’m so comfortably numb now though. Even if I did talk to him, there’s nothing for me to say. Happy New Year; sigh.
Colly
on 02/01/2015 at 8:37 am
Eyes Wide Open, I’m not sure if this is EUM behaviour, but my ex MM used to have me wear a silk pocket handkerchief about my person for a while so he could take it away and breathe me in when I wasn’t around. He also had a box with a lock of my hair in it. Perhaps it’s about romantic fantasy and longing…that it’s preferable to having the real person with you all the time if you’re an EUM?
The other behaviour I noticed was jumping straight up after sex, like cuddling and being intimate afterwards would burn or something.
Brenda K
on 02/01/2015 at 8:49 am
Perfect timing and spot-on as usual. My husband that I have been in a very long process of divorcing just moved back to Japan permanently on Boxing Day (one week ago). While I had been looking forward to that moment with an eagerness approaching mania and had a long, detailed, written timeline of all the things I was going to do as soon as I dropped him off at the airport, I just had a total meltdown instead. Having completely failed to force myself to begin the massive clean-up/ restoration project on my home and life that day, I made a commitment to myself that I was going to break with my erstwhile pattern of burying myself in whatever-project so I could shut down emotionally and drown out the pain, and this time I was going to proceed at a pace that allowed me to grieve the loss and process it properly.
At the very end of last weekend I managed to begin purging my ex’s huge hoard of CDs (a major flashpoint in our relationship) and ran a load of clutter to the e-waste/donation center, but all I got for my trouble was to wake up with a nightmare that night that I had done something horribly wrong in purging the CDs, and I haven’t been able to do anything since then. Today I finally figured out the reason why: I am overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the mess I am faced with and the circular problems it poses, and I really resent that I have to spend a holiday dealing with squalor (something I have a visceral detestation of) after having spent my ENTIRE SUMMER ridding my home of it while my husband was back in Japan working a seasonal job, but after PigPen the Hoarder was back here for 2 ½ months the house is once again caked with filth. It just makes me want to run out the door and down the street screaming my head off until I get hit by a fucking car.
While it seems risibly absurd to me to just sit here in the middle of this god-awful pigsty I have just spent this entire day off avoiding dealing with, placidly sipping a glass of leftover Veuve Clicquot and dizzle-fritzing about on the internet, I guess it’s somehow consistent with the commitment I made to allow myself to process this thing. I am taking my moment to just “be”.
Diane
on 02/01/2015 at 4:15 pm
@Brenda K “While it seems risibly absurd to me to just sit here in the middle of this god-awful pigsty I have just spent this entire day off avoiding dealing with, placidly sipping a glass of leftover Veuve Clicquot and dizzle-fritzing about on the internet, I guess it’s somehow consistent with the commitment I made to allow myself to process this thing.”
If you’re not a writer, you should be.
At least you are rid of him and once you get rid of the crap, it won’t pile up again since he’s done. Gross! Good luck!
rags mom
on 02/01/2015 at 4:27 pm
Felt like taking out my old copy of ‘hes just not that into you…’ from obscurity and thumbing thru …Greg (the guy who wrote on sex and the city and authored this book) confirms a lot of what Nat is telling us abt ACs and men in general, ….confirmed to me this (but i already knew of course) = OM was just not that into me ; husband was never that into me…haha, almost 36 and never had a guy into me, BECAUSE i chased the ones that werent ….and didnt have time for the ones that were ….
Sofia
on 03/01/2015 at 3:05 am
rags mom, exactly what I think. The guys who were into me were normal guys (including my ex-husband with whom I broke up and pushed for divorce). Available, caring and loving. The guys who were not into me were ACs or EUs. And so was I. AC and EU to them, to good people and to myself. The recovery continues.
Sarah Elle
on 02/01/2015 at 11:45 pm
Hello, can anyone give me their thoughts on why my ex would email me over a year and a half after we split up, apologising for the ‘clumsy’ way he ended things…? We went out together for 2 years and I think my self-esteem was slowly chipped away at during that time, although I really had thought he was the love of my life. I did have a particularly challenging time during our relationship due to family death, moving house and mother’s alzheimer’s, which could of course have contributed to my confidence and self-esteem. When we broke up it was after I’d raised the issue (again) of feeling there was no proper partnership or togetherness on his part and he ended things with no emotion. He had always lacked empathy but, on reflection, I suppose I’d overlooked it, thinking it was just a dry sense of humour, who knows. Anyway it took me ages to process it all and now he’s ‘sorry for the clumsy way he ended things’ nearly 2 years on. I don’t want to start thinking about him again, so any advice would be gladly received. Big thanks.
Sofia
on 03/01/2015 at 2:50 am
Sarah Elle,
I am sorry he resurfaced. I can only imagine how it hurts after 1,5 year of healing and getting the insensitive “clumsy way he ended things” out of the blue. He followed up clumsily as well, which he should have not. If he feels he needs to apologize, he needs to check with you if you want to talk, if there is a good time to talk in phone or in person, which is better, if he needs to apologize, and IF you need his apology first of all. This is really awkward and I really feel your pain. I haven’t experienced the come back of my ex. I don’t think I will. I realized now I will never hear from him and receive no apology and I finally, thanks to God, reconciled with my peace. However, I did have some troubling thoughts what if he comes back (e-mail or text contact I mean), I don’t want to hurt. I let go and I don’t need his apology. It will only complicate things and reverse everything back. I have already forgiven him.
Your post resonates with me very much. I can relate to no empathy expressions. Dry humor. Oh yes. Lots of sarcasm. And no support or very little in any kind of life situations throughout our one year together. And he broke up after I pressed the issue that this kind of permanent dating after a year is not working for me. I am in my nearing late 30s, a mom, and I want a serious stable relationship. He broke up after that “pressure.” And mind you 3 weeks before he had told me he loved me and we would be together.
What else did he say? Did he want to meet in person and talk? Just one sentence is really odd. Even if he is sorry. If I am sorry and want to apologize I would first ask the person if there is a good time to talk and meet if possible. And then talk live in person.
Do you need his apology? It doesn’t matter what he wants. How do you feel? Have you been waiting for his apology? Do you feel you need the apology to move on? I had the most important issue in my life, which I discussed on this board and don’t want to bring up right now…, which I thought I could not move on until he apologizes. But I moved on with God’s help. Yet somehow and somewhere… I feel I wish he told me he is sorry for all the hurt and pain that I had gone through. Seems like I would like to depart with him with peace and love finally. Yet I feel strong that I know I can live without his apology. I have forgiven him and when it’s not enough sometimes I keep forgiving him again.
Let us know what else he said in that e-mail and what your feelings are about it. After 1,5 years maybe seeing him for what he is and hearing an apology could be like a closure to you. This is not recommended for those soon after the breakup. But after some time goes by… Even then. It depends on the situation. Some more info is needed to understand your situation.
Sarah Elle
on 03/01/2015 at 10:33 am
Sofia, thanks so much for your response. It is so interesting what you say. Btw I too am a mum, although a little older than you (47) and ex is a couple of years older than me. In the email he said he knew it was out of the blue, but he’d seen me online and wanted to apologise for the clumsy way he’d ended things with me and that he hoped I was ok now… He also said he hoped everything was good in my world! I can see it is completely arrogant, especially the hoping I’m ok ‘now’ bit! I have since taken my profile down as forgot it was up there.
In answer to your question, I have to say I had never hoped for an apology. I have moved forward with huge difficulty, going through the stages of loss and grief (which I think were combined with my Dad’s death and other big life traumas). What I really wanted was not an apology but some flicker of loss on his part, as we had shared some hugely funny and passionate times and made plans for the future. His mum and dad even wrote to me saying how sad they were, but he never expressed any sadness himself and that was what really bothered me. What was completely insensitive at the time of the break up on his part, and shows lack of any empathy, emotion or even a pulse I reckon … was that we had flights booked three months after we split, taking his friends and their kids to my family’s villa. He could have taken his friends anywhere else in the Algarve as a result of the break up, but he still went to the same complex even knowing I was going there. He had contacted me a few times after the split emotionlessly too, acting like we’d always been friends, and just prior to the holiday he was a complete baffoon emailing me ‘happy days’ about the impending holiday and that he may see me at the airport and so on…. He also contacted me the first Christmas after we broke up to wish me and my daughter well, and now this email.
I honestly feel ok (just perplexed about his email this far down the road) and I believe you will get to this point too, with or without an apology. I have to tell you I replied to his email saying that it was weird seeing his name in my inbox, that I had been very broken up at the time esp with all the other sad things going on, that I had thought about him for a long time afterwards but that I then accepted we wanted different things. I know it’s boosting his ego but it’s also telling him I’ve processed everything and moved on. What do you think? If I had just deleted the email it that might have niggled away at me, so I thought best to reply honestly and openly, true to myself. I think even more now that he is an ineffectual man, narcissistic and self-centred, who masquerades as caring (he works in the medical world). His ego is so very fragile, any little dent will have him questioning himself so it is karma and retribution in itself him having to live like that. He was always trying to be ‘edgy’ and ‘cool’ – at his age I ask you…… and one who has to try to be edgy, certainly isn’t!! The best thing for me now is that I am not being insidiously undermined and am getting my inner strength back. x
Reeling Colly
on 03/01/2015 at 2:09 pm
Sarah Elle, well done for coming so far, and I feel inspired that there can be peace without answers and everything making sense.
Sofia
on 04/01/2015 at 7:58 pm
Sarah Elle, if the ex ( I keep trying avoiding saying “my” or “mine”) contacted, I am confident he would say the same thing along those lines, “hope all is good in your life and you are ok now.” Arrogance. Lack of empathy. Not understanding or wanting to understand the necessity to stay away. Or if they do contact: to present themselves and explain on other terms. Not with some clumsy email. Selfish. He just wanted an ego stroke, for one, and also feeling guilty maybe. They don’t get it: if they don’t have anything to say or offer (not like we need it anyway), they should stay away. These text/emails crumbs are so annoying and intrusive and distracting to say the least. Either say something meaningful or don’t say anything at all. The latter is better.
I understand you had a need to respond for your own sake. Not for him. I honestly don’t know how I would react if the ex contacted me in a similar manner.
I do know though after 3 times when he contacted me last year and I responded I felt a temporary high but then very low and back to square one kind of feeling. So it’s best not even say anything, but if you felt like you had to say it, that was what you needed. I would say don’t engage in any communication with him anymore. Such a waste of emotions and time.
Oh and, “He had contacted me a few times after the split emotionlessly too, acting like we’d always been friends” – sounds like the ex too. And when he contacted me he never mentioned my daughter.
They are just waste in our lives. Press forward.
Sarah Elle
on 05/01/2015 at 11:03 pm
Thanks Sofia, it is true he was after an ego stroke and I do think he was trying to assuage his guilt, but why after a year and a half. Most odd. I partly wish I hadn’t emailed him now but I was feeling v vulnerable that day because of the seriousness of my Mum’s disease. I don’t want to have regrets though as I did what I felt was right at the time, despite many times having wanted an opportunity to tell him what I really thought, I got another one and blew it with honesty. Oh well. I did end my email by saying I wished him well and to pass on my best to his parents…so he must have known that was end of story. Incidentally, he responded, saying he was sorry to hear about my Mum and he hoped I could get some respite and that he was off out shopping now…..wtf! You’re right with the crumbs being intrusive though, as it has bothered me. I definitely won’t respond again as I do feel a bit set back, but I’m determined not to give him that power to control my feelings. I never initiated any contact after the break-up, he always did. I have a backbone of steel when I want to and I’m sure that surprised him, haha. I have however always responded to him contacting me – well no more, for god’s sake it’s nearly two years in May. Your ex sounds just like mine. Absolute waste and surplus to requirements. How are you feeling today?
Sofia
on 03/01/2015 at 2:52 am
Sarah Elle, I just wanted to add that my self-esteem had been slowly chipped away at for a year and ruined. I had never had anything like this happen to me in my entire life. I have been picking up pieces throughout the entire 2014. I am better now but working on it. I hope you are better too, as far as self-esteem goes, anyway.
Sarah Elle
on 03/01/2015 at 10:41 am
I meant to say that it is hideous when self-esteem is eroded – but it will come back. If it is any help I started regaining this by no more self-blame, focusing on my strengths and by not pushing feelings to the side, but processing them and allowing myself to accept and adjust and ‘being nice to myself’ – it sounds corny. I’ve also worked a lot on ‘letting things go’ without getting any answers. It’s hard but liberating.
Sofia
on 04/01/2015 at 8:00 pm
Sarah Elle, great advice. That’s what I have been doing too. Being compassionate with myself and learning to let things go. Just be it.
Thank you Diane. I did however reply to say that I was very broken up at the time but I processed and accepted it. Hopefully that has not absolved him of his guilt (although it probably has) but it may make him realise that time’s moved on. I don’t believe he’s suddenly got any emotions though or that he feels sad about our demise. He’s probably been ditched by someone else. The arrogance of hoping I’m ok ‘now’ just reinforces his true colours. I definitely won’t respond to any more contacts and will read the link, thanks again.
Reeling Colly
on 03/01/2015 at 8:22 am
Honestly Sarah Elle, probably bored, weighted by the expectations of a New Year, and thought he would just have a quick fish to see if you’d give him some attention.
A lack of empathy is a character trait so I wouldn’t expect someone to develop any over time. My ex MM/OM/AC was lacking in empathy, and actually used to admit to me how he felt no empathy for his wife when she would call him at work to moan about something. He said he would just give the programmed responses expected of him. Yet he calls this love!
He shows no empathy for me now when he sends a fishing email and this is what your ex is doing. Sending a random email and invading someone’s life after telling them you no longer want to be with them is a splendid display of lack of empathy. Press delete and move on, you deserve better.
Sarah Elle
on 03/01/2015 at 10:49 am
It is so true about the lack of empathy being a trait. I did email back however, for my sake not his, and now I’m done. He is an ineffectual individual that I can clearly see (after all the pain and heartache). Any future contact will not be responded to. Thanks for your support and the link, I will read it now. I am so glad I found this site, it’s brilliant.
Gina
on 03/01/2015 at 8:49 am
Sarah Elle,
Read Nat’s article (When Your Ex Returns Again…) below with following insert included “What it is a sign of, is that when they go through their mental Roladex of who is most likely to still hold them in high regard because they’re living in the past, they think of you. They tend to get in touch after they’ve hurt someone else, so that you can pump them up and give them a clean bill of health, like “Look, I’m not that bad! My ex who I’ve effed over a few times will still give me the time of day!” Then they launch themselves into their next relationship…”
Take wise advice given by yourself of not wanting to think of him by deleting email and blocking all future incoming communication. Karma has served him well as I am sure subsequent relationships (after you) have not been great so ‘tail between leg/cap in hand’ approach he is trying. Plus he left during your most vulnerable with family death, mum’s illness, and moving house…didn’t even hang around as a supportive friend as least.
Keep the no contact going as the rather clumsy apology/contact from him nearly two years later is totally unacceptable. He simply can’t leave and return anytime he wants.
Sarah Elle
on 03/01/2015 at 11:14 am
Thanks Gina, I will read the link through. I did however email him back saying that I had been very broken up at the time, especially combined with all the other sad things going on, but that I have processed everything and accepted we wanted different things. I know it’s probably boosted his ego but it’s also told him I’ve moved on, although he probably won’t ‘get’ this concept due to his arrogance. I will not respond to any more contact. I thought by being true to myself and transparent with him in response, it solidifies my recovery (to me). He has definitely got the largest but most fragile ego, which is retribution/karma in itself. As you say, he left during life traumas when I was very vulnerable so I’m sure karma will come back to bite him along those lines too. And he probably has either just been dumped or dumped someone else. Roll on 2015. x
Mephista
on 03/01/2015 at 9:22 am
I watched true crime program recently about con artist who scammed many women out of their affection, time and money. One woman reported him for fraud after he’d stolen money from her (for the plane ticket) to fly to another country to propose to another woman with the victim’s diamond ring (he’d stolen from her). He’d met this other woman while chatting to her on victim’s laptop. Anyway, even though the victim cancelled all her stolen credit cards the police asked her for cooperation because they were certain the fraudster would get in contact with the victim again. Their explanation? Fraudsters ALWAYS get back in touch to see if there is more they can scam out of their victims (sure tv fraudster did and got arrested – the police said he was so suave and persuasive that he fooled them for few moments even though they knew what he’d done).
To sum up, EUMs are con artists who can fool even fully trained professionals even after all facts are of their scams are evident. Con artists always go back to their victims to see if they can scam them for more affection, ego strokes, armchair counselling sessions, sex, time etc. Your con artist also wants reassurance that he isn’t such a bad guy as his past actions demonstrate. It’s less of a problem how he ended things than not being there for you when you were going through very, very difficult time which he now considers as merely ‘clumsy’. If you can’t count on those closest to you when you’re going through s##t then you don’t need these people at all. Keep reading these posts (Nat has several on exactly the question you’re asking) and my advice is that you don’t engage with your ex in any way. Don’t answer and don’t buy into his ‘apology’. As you said you don’t want to think about him and he doesn’t deserve any more of your time and/ or effort.
Diane
on 04/01/2015 at 2:16 am
@Mephista, LOVE that analogy. Clears so much of their inscrutable behavior up!
Ethelreda the Unready
on 05/01/2015 at 5:56 am
My thoughts?
a) He’s in therapy, and has been told he needs to apologise for some of the shitty things he’s done.
b) He’s newly single and has been dumped himself, and suddenly realises how it feels, and is also putting out feelers for you again. RUN AWAY. SILENCE. DO NOT RESPOND.
Leanne
on 03/01/2015 at 12:25 am
Aw, @rags mom, don’t be too hard on yourself. Sounds like your OM was totally into you when he thought it was a possibility, no? And with respect to hubby, I know you are married and have a kid, but if you don’t think he’s that into you, that’s got to be a tough way to live. What made you decide to get back together/stay together?
rags mom
on 03/01/2015 at 7:39 pm
Hi Leanne, I missed this post earlier, will send you a reply tommorrow, been too long a day today, but another good day in the journey ….
rags mom
on 03/01/2015 at 8:08 am
@colly / reeling, Dont worry about what others on here will think of you, some may not relate to your story as much as others, but we are here hoping to heal faster , not looking to win a popularity contest, dont worry about all that other stuff right now dear C, focus on yourself. worrying about others all the time sometimes is a cause for many an explosion of self later in life.
So many aspects of your story that I want to talk about – your husband and you live as brother and siser ???? this maybe be the one that struck out the most ….Colly, you need to , as I have, focus on fixing what was wrong with the marriage or even if it is fixable, …..only after u have decided it is unfixable, and taken those scary (seems like now, wont once you start staying cool and calm) steps to free urself of the marriage can u consider the possibilities with the other man or someone else out there ….do u still love ur husband or are u in the marriage just for the kids ….
also just a little curious, how old was ur OM, 20s , 30s ? doesnt seem like the 9 year age gap was an issue at all ?
rags mom
on 03/01/2015 at 8:16 am
@colly, hope you come on here everyday and post your updates, I’m very interested in knowing how ur coping and getting thru, I shall keep talking here as well and hope it helps u….
I left the job where OM was in the same team as me , albeit diff locations as u know ….I left in July and I was in shock for 3 or 4 months for how dependant I had gotten on the daily contact with him, the false security of being colleagues (which creates an illusions that he is ‘there for me’ everyday, when in reality he was coming into work everyday is all)…..
I was very attracted to him and he blew hot about the first 3 or 4 months, but after my husbands threatening call/s to him, he friendzoned me (drama, drama, drama, …after 10 years of a relatively quiet good girl life, maybe ur right and we enjoyed the drama to some extent, but I do remember also being in a lot of pain regardless…)
Anyway, I asked husband for divorce for many times in that one year that I worked there …..but Im glad now that he insisted we try working things out, for my sons sake and also the way I was trying to leave the marriage was so wrong and disrespectful to me and husband and son ….I wasnt being a grown up at all about handling things in a mature way….
Sadly, I probably would have left if OM had wanted a future with me, he said he didnt want to break up the marriage at first , but later also admitted the age gap (him being in mid twenties to me in mid thirties) was a deterrent, …I knew it would be of course always, but in the beginning he sounded like it didnt matter ….and I got carried away I guess…
Reeling Colly
on 03/01/2015 at 12:26 pm
@rags mom, thank you so much, I will keep writing, just putting it out there is a help. A consequence of having an affair is that it’s all secret, so all the pain must be kept a secret and that is very very tough.
The age gap was never a problem, I’m a very young looking 40 and OM was 31. We were at similar stages in life, me having a 2yr old and him having two kids of 3 and 5. Our upbringings were very similar and we carry the same hang ups, so in many ways it was like looking in a mirror. The fact that we loved what was in front of us too was quite a boost for a while. In the end he seemed to suck up the power of that and use it to tackle his marriage (although he said he had to give his wife a chance to change – which we all know is a blind alley), and I just ended up a jibbering wreck as I couldn’t stand to be the OW and just wanted him to be with me – even though he was an AC.
Work will be OK in the end as we only came together through working on a cross functional project and are not on the same team. At some point I’ll have to visit the location he works as I have a team there but I should manage to avoid since they are in a different building.
I’ve been puzzling over what went wrong with my marriage, it feels like we just drifted apart. If I look at us we seem like my EU parents in their 45 year marriage. There is little affection in a true partnership sense. My husband is a lovely guy, he’s a great father, and we enjoy a lot of the same things, but there is no spark and he doesn’t get talking about feelings – we actually joke sometimes he doesn’t have any and that he cries on the inside. I want to work on my marriage but feel unable to move on it, the pain of my ex OM just stops me in my tracks. I’m starting Nat’s self esteem course on Monday to try and focus on me some more to help me get past this block.
Your husband definitely sounds worth a shot, he noticed and he fought for you, sounds wonderful to be valued that way.
Thanks rags mom, let’s keep talking.
rags mom
on 03/01/2015 at 7:34 pm
Colly, thats great that you are taking the course, I really want to too, but husband will of course see the charge and I dont want a big conversation over am I over the past 18 months or not ….I guess in some ways getting over things should be easier for you since husband never knew , I dont know ….
thats very interesting abt the age gap not being a problem…we were 34 and 25 when we met, but in very very different stages of life , made the age gap seem more apparent after the first 4 months ….
Colly
on 04/01/2015 at 9:49 am
Rags mom, that’s a shame you think you couldn’t make it – could you ask a friend to pay for you and give them the cash? Or maybe just tell your husband it’s something you need to do for the both of you?
Probably another sign of my chronic EU, but other than owning a house together all our money is in separate accounts! I think I’ll always be that way though as I don’t think I could trust someone else with my security.
I did notice the age gap at times, mostly funny things about growing up in a different decade, and occasionally he would show naievity about people and emotions, but other than that it was fine.
How are things with your husband? Something is keeping you tuned into the OM and I just wondered what was causing it?
Reeling Colly
on 03/01/2015 at 5:59 pm
Sorry @rags mom, I meant to add that I love my husband, but I’m not in love with him – that’s the best way I can describe it. Having said that I’m not sure whether that it’s just something with me that can’t identify being in love unless I have a dose of pain and anxiety with it, or highs and lows I guess. My husband was the first man I didn’t have to chase down and work hard to hold onto, and I’m not sure I know how to deal with a grown up relationship. That said, I didn’t get to this point in my relationship alone, and he must have contributed to me feeling starved of affection and loving interest…but the maybe I just starved myself.
rags mom
on 03/01/2015 at 8:20 am
@Leanne, hope u are doing okay ….
Leanne
on 03/01/2015 at 8:24 am
Hi ladies, made it through day 16! Feeling good but I was so up and down today. I’ve been reading Nats articles and reading your comments and it has been totally enlightening. I really do want out of this, but I also can’t stop thinking about MM.
I am SO nervous for Monday 🙁 I really do want this to be over. I need to move on with my life and I can’t do that with MM around. I know MM is going to try to stop by next week or is going to email. Should I email him in advance and say not to? I know I asked this before but maybe it would be best to lay it out there.. That I can’t see or talk to him anymore. I don’t want to add emotional fuel to this guy’s ego, but I don’t want him coming by. It is going to set me back or suck me back in. Not to cheating, but I can tell that even just talking to him is so killer tough for me. Help! I read Nat’s article on breaking up with a MM that you work with. Should I just continue to be silent and avoid him, or lay it out there and tell him not to make contact anymore??
Wiser
on 03/01/2015 at 2:26 pm
Leanne, I’ll re-send what I put on the last post since you might have missed it: Leanne, I had to work with an ex who hurt me badly and I did everything I could to avoid him. We never had a discussion about it and I simply ignored him in every way possible. I had projects that needed his input, but I managed to figure out ways to do them on my own. I was so proud! I too was quietly NC and trying to keep my dignity – I figured eventually he would get the hint and leave me alone, but that took some time. Being a clueless idiot, he kept dropping in the office, or he’d call me on the phone about some work item, big smile when we’d pass in the hall. He was blithely going on like nothing had happened; I was tense and miserable anytime we had interaction. I was proud of how much NC I could accomplish, but looking back, if I had to do it again, I would definitely have sent a nice, polite but firm note right at the beginning that said something like “under the circumstances, it would be best for us to have as little contact as possible. I’m sure that whatever contact we need to have for work purposes can be handled through email.” No ambiguity, no hidden agenda, no secretly hoping it would change him, change the situation. You’re telling him to leave you alone in no uncertain terms.
So I recommend in your situation to make things as clear as possible as soon as possible. Why should you have to endure days of being miserable until he “gets the hint”? Forget the hinting – be clear and claim your power!
A couple more thoughts… I advise being active and setting your boundaries immediately instead of waiting for him to “get it.” Why should you be on his timetable? Having said that, the ONLY way (and I can’t emphasize ONLY enough), this will work is if you send him a “stay-away” email as a way to assert yourself and NOT as a secret wish to get him to do or think anything, or care what he thinks of you as a result, or to keep you feeling some kind of faux connection. Then it’s doomed. You have to be very clear in your mind about this. If you send him a final email, it has to be short and sweet and professional. You do NOT have to bare your heart or explain ANYTHING. You just make it clear what kind of contact you will permit, if you have to have some contact for work purposes. DO NOT RESPOND to anything he sends. If he shows up in your office say, “I thought I made myself clear. I do not want to see you.” Not nasty, not angry, not emotional, not vulnerable and definitely not explaining yourself or getting drawn into discussion. Just calm, poised, and firm. You can fall apart later, and you probably will at first. But it DOES get better, I promise! If you can do all this, you have no idea how empowered you will be!! It may be best to get another job, and it definitely helped me to be able to transfer to another building to get away from the ex. But in the meantime, there you are. How do you want to handle these days coming up? Waiting for him to get a hint? It took a LONG time for my idiot ex to get the hint, which caused me a lot of unnecessary suffering. As I said, if I could do it again, I definitely would have established my boundaries immediately and I think he would have respected them.
Rosie
on 03/01/2015 at 2:38 pm
Leanne- First of all, breathe! 🙂 A few blog posts back, someone brought up the term, “womanspaining”. I can’t remember if it means the same thing as Natalie ‘ s “Women Who Talk Too Much”. Basically, we women want to talk about everything going on inside us but men are just hearing babbling. I would E-mail him to have physical evidence to show if it comes to that. Keep your E-mail short and sweet. You know, something like, “There is no need for us to visit each other’s offices as we were. Any business we need to discuss can be handled through E-mail.” (Well, that was a poor example, But YOU Get The point. 😉 )
Rosie
on 03/01/2015 at 2:42 pm
I mean, E-mail to have physical evidence to show HR should you need to report him for harassment.
rags mom
on 03/01/2015 at 7:36 pm
hey glad to hear uve almost made it to day 18 …I dont have major advice for monday that I havent already said yet, but keep us posted !!
Reeling Colly
on 03/01/2015 at 8:26 am
Hey BR readers, I’m looking for some tips on how to stop obsessive thinking. I’m plagued, I wake in the night thinking about my ex, lie in bed in the morning thinking about my ex, think about him constantly through the day, and the more I tell myself not to the more I keep doing it. I tell myself he’s not worth my thought, read my list of reminders for staying NC, then just seen to lose patience with myself and beat myself up for not being able to stop. I’ve tried staying busy, but I still think, or if I stop obsessing I worry I’m avoiding my feelings.
Help please???
Noquay
on 03/01/2015 at 2:31 pm
Colly
There’s something called “though stopping” where every time you fantasize, think about the dude, you cut it off, go do something else. Dunno where and how you live, but getting outside, going to the gym,pyshing yourself to the max helps a lot. Not only stay NC, but don’t be anywhere you and he were. Meet new, functional folk, not in bars, go to, do different things, learn new skills. He is going to constipate your brain for awhile.
Noquay
on 03/01/2015 at 2:36 pm
Sorry about the typos; that’s “thought stopping”.
Rosie
on 03/01/2015 at 3:09 pm
Reeling Colly- Obsessing over him may be a sign of an emotional need going unmet. You mentioned that you’re in a marriage where you feel invisible. When I obsess, it’s usually when I’m feeling depleted and stressed, seeing myself as “useable” but not lovable. IOW, I felt invisible to the world. The guy in my head was just a representative of that.
What I didn’t know was that I was really being invisible to myself. See, I grew up being told that I was ugly, fat, & stupid. I’m no longer fat and I know I’m smart but still had trouble seeing my good physical features. Thus, still saw myself as having “sex appeal” but not being “pretty”. What I now realize is that saying I have sex appeal but am not pretty is saying that I’m useable. What an awful thing to think of myself!
This realization came fairly recently when I was looking at a photo of myself and noticed that, yes, I do have a pretty smile and gorgeous hair. I have a nice figure and look young for my age. I like who I am and really no longer have the desire to prove myself to the guy or the world. I don’t need to be “seen” anymore. Lo and behold, obsessive thoughts have rapidly dissipated.
This is a long winded way of asking what need in yourself are you neglecting/aren’t recognizing as this may be the key to the obsession?
Zoe
on 03/01/2015 at 6:06 pm
@Reeling Colly
NC is essential. Also, ssk yourself what exactly you are obsessing about. Is it really your ex? Was he that great? I highly doubt. Is it just male companionship/someone in your life that you are missing?
Make a list of his positive and negative qualities (objectively!). Nowadays I try to start doing it from the very beginning of the relationship, when there is no rose colored glasses and revisit thses notes regularly to add new points. It comes in handy in case of a breakup and in general to see the man for what he is.
Maybe the break up triggered old abandonment issues in you that you need to work on. Maybe it is just your insecurities talking, and you know we want things more if we cant have them. Think of him as a very bad and dangerous drug that is poisoning and ruining your body and mind. Dont shoot up any more…Allow yourself some time to think about him and the relationship and accept it for what it is. Do not read more into it and think about what it could be. See it for what IT IS NOW. Then try to think of him less and less. You can also read on addiction and how to overcome it if you feel you have too frequent obsessive thought patterns.
And watch this video several times a day, repeat the words out loud, it helped me a lot, very powerful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pketb6gxR3w
Hope I could help a bit! x
ljsrmissy
on 03/01/2015 at 9:26 pm
@ Reeling Colly,
Sounds like you need to deal with the ‘real’ issue. Is the real issue the condition of your marriage? Not to invalidate the situation with the other guy, but what were you look to fill/escape from emotionally/physically with this other guy?
happy b
on 03/01/2015 at 1:44 pm
It took me more than a decade to process family traumas – lots of counselling and a whole load of mistakes and dramas out of being EU and having low self esteem. Other people in the family settled down seemingly with little effort and found long-term partners and financial stability, though they certainly have struggles with the past and lasting issues. I’ve had a more bohemian lifestyle, which has its pleasures but also doesn’t really feel like a choice – marriage, kids and mortgage have never seemed like options to me.
I am very thankful to the partners who support my relatives and want nothing but happiness for them, still I wonder, after I’ve put in all this work, is there some kind of delayed gratification? Will I eventually settle down and have a deep kind of happiness and stability from earning it and knowing exactly what I want? I have mixed feelings about this, I really don’t know. I have plenty to be grateful for in the present, but also hope I’m investing in something for the future.
Veracity
on 03/01/2015 at 11:53 pm
happy b, First of all, great for you for putting in the hard work and effort and dedication to process your trauma! This is no small feat, many people spend their whole lives mired in the pain and living out old roles assigned to them.
“Other people in the family settled down seemingly with little effort and found long-term partners and financial stability, though they certainly have struggles with the past and lasting issues”. I think the key here is *seemingly*. So it appears all is well, but we are privy to what’s happening behind closed doors and in their heads! I’m not sure how old you are, but often people can hide/cover up their issues for a long time…and then they can’t.
The beauty of standing where you are is the freedom to choose! I’m not sure what you mean by “marriage, kids and mortgage have never seemed like options to me”. Do you want to settle down and have a family? If so, of course they’re options for you! Now that you’ve processed your past you’re in the best place to attract a great partner.
I think trying to come up with what we want, what will make us happy, is one of the hardest things to figure out when we have so many choices. I go for what I feel most passionate about; what I get excited about; what I lose track of time doing/thinking about.
You’ve made a great investment in yourself, your peace, your happiness, I can’t imagine a greater investment!
V.
on 04/01/2015 at 2:47 am
happy b, you say “I am very thankful to the partners who support my relatives and want nothing but happiness for them, still I wonder, after I’ve put in all this work, is there some kind of delayed gratification?”
in my opinion this is a really odd sentence which seems to suggest that you are identified with those partners too: do *you* keep supporting your relatives? does that cost you a lot of energy? is that a lot of work for you? If so, I suggest you stop spending your energies and time for those people and put them into building a life that fits you better, ’cause the “bohemian lifestyle has its pleasures but also doesn’t really feel like a choice” (any more, i say). Go and get what you like. It would seem that it is the ‘forbidden fruit’ of “marriage, kids and mortgage” or “long-term partners and financial stability” for you. Take care, V.
happy b
on 04/01/2015 at 10:03 am
Veracity, V.
I suppose my line of thinking is, they get to have supportive partners and families and I don’t, and that feels unfair – BUT if they lost those partners, I’m not sure how well they’d cope on their own so it would cause me some extra anxiety. So to answer V.’s question, my energy has all gone into building my own life in recent years, but I’d fear disaster if they lost their foundation. Wow that says a lot about my family, and my carer mentality!
Very true, and I thought it soon after posting, that I have actually made choices. I could have stayed in a job that I hated and probably would then have settled down by now (and it would almost certainly be a co-dependent relationship or flawed in some other way, given my scars), but chose to follow my interests instead and put those first. I made a very conscious decision to build a life doing something I love, even if it took me 10 years to be comfortable and stable. In this time I was emotionally unavailable and set back my recovery with an AC. And now I do have a stable job and emotional availability, a bit more than 10 years later, so those forbidden fruits (it feels that way, V.!) should come next.
Thanks so much to both of you, there is no doubt really that my investment is worth it, whatever happens in the future. I am alone, overworked, cold and fluey, but that foundation (or ‘blanket’) of peace, truth and inner security is with me. Happy 2015 to both of you!
Veracity
on 04/01/2015 at 12:32 pm
Oh wow, V.!
V.
on 04/01/2015 at 6:19 pm
*smile*. yes, Happy 2015 to both of you too
Zoe
on 03/01/2015 at 5:32 pm
Thanks for another great read Natalie! My bf broke up with me just before the holidays, mid-december. Im in my early thirties now and it was obviously not my first break up, but was devastating because it came out of the blue. Even my friends were shocked. So for the first time in my life I decided not to try to ask him questions as to why or remind him how great we have been together and not ask for validation but just said goodbye and the following day I turned my phone off. I logged out of fb and all other social media on my computer also and was only checking emails sporadically during the holidays. It was soo hard but so worth it!
After a few days I stopped looking at my phone waiting for a message from him bc I knew it would not be coming, bc it cant. For the first time in my life I was trying to process the pain on my own, not anaesthetise it with fb post, validation from other people, drinking, partying, or initiating contact with other men (or exes) for ego strokes. I didnt want any distraction from my pain. I decided to be with my pain and go through the whole process of letting go on my own.
In the past I could only handle breakups and forget about my exes when I started dating again or found a new love interest. I needed another man in my life to completely get over an ex, I was never on my own longer than a few months. This time, I really wanted to do it on my own, I want to live through the pain and be free in the end. Free of this need for a man, a love interest, male attention and love. I must tell you that it has been one of the hardest 20 days of my life (and still counting). I have been keeping a diary of my feelings, read lots of BR, meditated, watched movies and talked to friends and family.
Also, I kept asking myself out loud questions (several times a day as often as possible) such as “What are you feeling right now?” “What makes you feel like this?” “Why are you afraid?” “Why are you anxious?” “What are you scared of?” “Why are you angry?” “Why are you crying?” and I was trying to honestly answer these questions to myself out loud.
It was a great practice, very powerful and a very shocking experience bc first I could not answer these above questions…I didnt know why I was in pain and why I would miss someone who rejected me. But every day it got better and better and cried less and less and was more and more aware of my pain and why I feel the way I feel. I think that I have known myself and my feelings better and learned to look inside me for answers and not avoid my feelings and cover my pain with people, objects or substances.
So yes, we need to be with our pain, accept and embrace it, get to know it, bc these are growing pains and yes, we do get stronger if we really live through them. xxx
M.H.
on 03/01/2015 at 6:12 pm
@reeling – I’m feeling your pain.
It’s been 15 days of NC and I’m stuck…almost five months since the breakup (I did the breaking up) and I’m so stuck. I feel OK one moment and the next, I’m miserable. I realize the holidays have not helped, but neither has he.
This is my first post so I apologize in advance for the length.
The breakup was inevitable. He is classic EUM and I knew this, but I ran to this relationship after leaving another (another unavailable man, this one married) as I felt the last relationship had been this tumultuous love affair and I couldn’t bear for more heartbreak like that. So I sealed off my heart and settled. There were tons of red flags- anger issues, blowing hot and cold. When I decided a few years later to try and progress things along and insist that we move in together, he had every excuse in the book of why he “couldn’t”. After he ran and I ignored him, accepting that the relationship would probably be over, he came back to me a few days later and agreed to the move. I mistakenly took this as a sign of his potential to grow and we lived together for three stressful, agonizing years. And as the years went on, I did open my heart and love him. I just never felt it was reciprocated. Not in the way I longed for, anyway. He was always accusing me of treating him wrong, talking to him the “wrong way” and he’d blow up if I confronted him about anything- making me feel like I was nuts. He drank too much later in the relationship. He had financial issues he was running from, family problems that were all consuming. He was angry at his sister, his mother, his boss, my kids (who are great kids he just didn’t care), drivers on the road, anyone that prepared his food….angry. And I understand I played a part in the demise of the relationship, but his failure to be emotionally available was the main reason I pulled away.
But when he wasn’t angry- he was so engaging. Charming. Funny. Charismatic. Generous. The problem was, at any given day, at any given moment, you never knew what you were going to get. And I grew tired of walking on eggshells and having knots in my stomach.
So, in August I told him it was over. And I was ready to move on. I was scared and sad but I had done what needed to be done. A few months passed and we were still in touch here and there by texts. He dragged out getting the last of his things, stopped by with rent a few times to help me out for a few months. But, overall, I was doing really well. I was grieving the way I should have been, sad at some moments, fine at most times.
Until, right around my birthday, when the weeks leading up he was texting me often, telling me there were signs popping up all over reminding him of me. He sent me a long beautiful text telling me he missed me and wished everyday that we were together. He showered me with birthday presents. He took me to dinner for my birthday, where we talked for hours, cried, hugged, kissed, told each other we loved each other. A few days later we had a conversation about potentially trying again… Or did we? Was I misunderstanding it all?
Then suddenly, he blew cold. He found a new apartment, was making plans to move from where he was staying temporarily and his texts suddenly became sporadic. Then it happened- I started feeling needy and I would text him. He’d always be nice, but he was now distracted. Except for his first week in his new place, when he texted me one night to tell me he was lonely and how most days he wished he could just come home, I didn’t hear a word from him. There would be a random text here or there…just to resurface for a second. Act warm and loving and then ..poof…nothing. For days and days.
I tried to make more plans with him…he agreed to getting together. (I know in hindsight it was stupid of me but it was like I couldn’t help myself). Then, two weeks in a row, after he told me he would text me to set up plans, I heard nothing from him. Except for a brief text to tell me a family member had passed, I heard nothing. And I said nothing. And I was embarrassed, hurt and feeling so silly for misreading his intentions.
You see, his intentions were NOT to win me back, his intentions were to leave the relationship like a big shot, so no one could possible dislike him. But it backfired.
I, like a desperate fool, reached out once more before the holidays (when HE then was the one to initiate getting together). And I heard nothing…once again. I started to realize that I’m remaining tethered to this man like a puppy because of my OWN insecurities and self esteem issues.
I am now 15 days NC. And I feel like I’ve been empowered.
I didn’t even reply to him on Christmas – after he FINALLY decided to text me late Christmas night.
15 days. But, I’m still stuck.
Leanne
on 03/01/2015 at 6:26 pm
@reeling.. I think this is very normal in the break up stage and early days of NC. I am experiencing the same thing. I read an article that talked about scientific studies that show that the endorphins, etc. Of being in love are as addictive as heroin. So really when you’re first breaking up and NC it is like withdrawing from crack. I know it’s a joke to say “relationship crack” but it is actually very true!
Some things that are helping me (slowly): journalling, posting here, reading Nats articles, going to bed early, cognitive behavioral psychology exercises (thought writig etc.). Good luck! Work in progress..
Sofia
on 04/01/2015 at 4:14 am
The withdrawal effect is very true. I feel I still experience it. But it’s rare and much less intense. It’s normal as with any addiction. We need to be patient with ourselves, stick to the goal, and keep going the course. We will get there. It DOES get weaker and go away. Takes time. Different for everyone. No pressure on oneself and when you read, or so and so, got over the ex in 6 months it doesn’t mean you HAVE to.
You will on your time.
Leanne
on 03/01/2015 at 6:39 pm
Also keeping busy, seeing friends lots, planning fututre trips (that I may or may not take), making a vision board (that does not include him!). And planning to go to counseling starting next week. But the biggest thing overall that helps right now for me is going to bed early and taking breaks from social stuff when i need to. My thinking about hkm gets so busy and crazy at night, so that’s a key part.. Getting a lot of sleep. I’ve been using a natural sleep enhanced to help but may get some temporary sleeping meds from doctor if it gets worse. Hopeful this stage starts to end soon. With NC I can see more clearly that MM is not as great of a guy as I thought lol he was, even if he has good qualities. And that I can have a really really good life without him! Just need to stay Nc and work on self and own life :). Stay strong!
Sofia
on 04/01/2015 at 4:10 am
Leanne,
Try GABA supplements. These really helped me in the first months of healing because I couldn’t sleep. Sleep is important. Of course check with your doctor first. GABA and melatonin are still helping me regulate my sleep. I lost a lot of sleep the first half of 2014.
Leanne
on 03/01/2015 at 6:42 pm
@rags mom, it sounds like you’ve really got lots of clarity about your situation. What’s your secret?? Are you still up and down a lot (and/or obsessive thinking of OM?) or are you finding things getting better for you now?
Leanne
on 03/01/2015 at 10:09 pm
@M.H. They sounds horrible. Good on your for getting to 15 days NC! It is tough stuff, so impressive you made it :). Don’t worry about the going back and forth about contact/NC a bit at first. I think that’s normal. I have found it particularly challenging to keep my cool when men blow cold and ignore you suddenly after having been close and texting lots, etc. I don’t know why they do this. I know some seem to do it as a way to gain power in the relationship (perhaps this is the case wih your ex? Maybe if he was angry at you for splitting up?). It also sounds like he may have met someone else (sorry if that’s hard to hear). It just seems there was a distinct change in contact on his part and I think that is often the case. I’m sure there are more experienced readers out Tre who will hopefully have some insightful comments. But you are doing really really well! Congrats on 15 days NC!
M.H.
on 04/01/2015 at 1:34 am
Thanks Leanne. It’s been easier than I thought- as soon as Christmas Day rolled around and I felt myself waiting ALL day for word from him and didn’t receive it until 8pm, I knew I had to stick with NC.
It’s possible he found someone else and was keeping me around as an ego boost. I don’t know, really. He’s in his 40’s, never had a relationship longer than ours (five years), nor been married and always, always blamed the women for the end of every relationship.
He always blew hot and cold. At the beginning of our relationship and during the entire relationship. It’s his pattern. If he IS seeing someone else, he shouldn’t be telling me he misses and loves me. I honestly believe he doesn’t want to be close to anyone. He had our relationship broken up when it first started- meaning- he doesn’t fully commit, so he knew it would eventually end. I probably threw him by being the insecure oaf that stuck with it for so long.
I think he turns to me when he needs some comfort and to feel better about himself. When I reciprocate, tell him nice things, he’s good with that. And can then move on to his life again. He’s one that has stayed friends with all of his exes. I never understood that…until I started reading Natalie’s books. I’m refusing to be one of those exes…who hang around him and feed his ego. It’s over. I need to be done and gone.
Eyes Wide Open
on 03/01/2015 at 10:10 pm
You ladies are making me laugh (Sophia and incognito). I had a drawer at my exes that consisted of only a toothbrush LOL . One he kept after 6 months of our breakup (creepy). I’ve read men who can’t love but he didn’t keep my actual belongings. He never left a single item at my place and was so weird about showering at my place which I found so eery after 2 years together! He never left anything at my house either, but was a weirdo and would keep a pillow with my makeup on it and obviously it belonged to him but he wouldn’t wash and or anything that smelled like my perfume. Weird is an understatement! LOL
Sofia
on 04/01/2015 at 4:05 am
Eyes Wide Open,
The ex never even slept at my place!!! One time he was really tired and after sex just kind of snoozed with his head on my breast. I felt so happy, I said, “stay, don’t go. just sleep here. ” He said, ” oh no I will fall asleep and stay here,” I said, “so what, stay here, rest and sleep and tomorrow morning you will leave.” Nope. He jumped right up and left so quickly like a lightening attacked him. And that was 7-8 months into our relationship. the question is rather on me – how did I ALLOW this kind of stuff? Never again. Thanks to BR.
Sofia
on 04/01/2015 at 4:05 am
I am glad we can laugh about it:)
Relief. Sigh. We are healing:)
Leanne
on 03/01/2015 at 10:18 pm
Thanks ladies, I have been posting on here a lot the last few days as my break from work draws to a close and I have to deal with my work situation. I appreciate that you are still listening and thanks for your advice! @wiser, I did read your post be other day and found it very helpful. Most others seemed to say just stay NC, so I’ve been unsure which route is best. I do want out of this situation and I think that a short email may be the way to go. Natalies old post also said to set out expectations early so I may just do this tomorrow night or Monday morn. I will let you know how it goes.
Thanks all! Today I feel a bit out of it and nervous, but am planning to remain NC except for this short email to tell MM please not to come by anymore as we should not be in contact except for work. It’s day 17 and I’ve decided to set a new goal to the end of jan which will be 45 days NC. Good luck to everyone struggling with this stuff! I can already see things keep getting better and better with NC, tho it can just be a real struggle some days. I’m also staying away from ex but for phone calls as friends. Going to take some time to work on myself before I make any life changes and decisions. I hope I didn’t sound callous towards him before. I’m not looking to jump back in with him but I also want to get my head screwed back on right before making any further life decisions.
Wiser
on 04/01/2015 at 12:50 am
Leanne, best of luck as you go back to work. I’ve been exactly where you are, so I understand all those conflicting feelings. It’s going to be crappy for awhile, there’s just no way around it. Once you declare your boundaries to him, it is crucial that you go NC as much as possible. But remember, there’s more to NC than just not being in contact… that’s only step one. The next step is the mental work, the positive affirmations, the thought re-wiring, the focusing on YOU and what you tell yourself about how NC is going to help you – NOT about how he’s going to feel about it, or whether he’s sad, happy, indifferent, smirking, pissed off, thinks you’re foolish, getting an ego stroke, or whatever. HIS FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS DO NOT MATTER. Please repeat this to yourself about 1000 times. They are not your concern and not your business. This is not being “mean” to him – this is about being good to yourself.
Remember, he is married, he is unavailable, he is out of bounds. Repeat that about 8000 times! Hopefully, that will help you stay strong.
Eyes Wide Open
on 03/01/2015 at 10:22 pm
Colly and Sofia,
My ex was weird after sex too!! So weird! He would have to shower and in the mornings he had to get out of bed as soon as he would wake up and couldn’t just relax and have a lazy day with me. He would have to make other plans to have his own personal time (mind you I rarely saw him during the week!). It’s like after a certain amount of time spent together he’d get nuts and antsy and have to get away from me. So glad I’m not with that EUM freak anymore! Blocking him has given me a whole new world of peace and clarity to think what the hell was I thinking wanting to settle down with such an odd person.
Sofia
on 04/01/2015 at 4:00 am
Eyes Wide Open,
Exactly! There was not a single lazy day with him in the entire year for us. When I suggested he said he didn’t want to be couch potatoes like his parents. I didn’t suggest a life style like that, but just once in a while to be lazy and cuddly like that!
I saw him on the weekends only too (parental and work responsibilities). There were some evenings he came by but rarely and towards the end of it. I suggested cooking a meal for him so he can come after work and relax. No. He couldn’t. It had to be his couch, his TV, and his kind of meal. He ran away from intimacy. Yes. Thanks for saying that, “I thinking wanting to settle down with such an odd person.” Imagine that? I think the same now. What a nightmare of a life!
ljsrmissy
on 04/01/2015 at 3:45 am
Happy Happy 2015 ladies!!!
I must say that outside of my looking for work. I look forward to pouring out my hear and head on these posts because I post to myself as I post to you ladies. I hope somebody can get something from this. Where do I start?!! I am in the best place internally/mentally/emotional than I have been since I don’t know when. I am literally excited about that. Being in between jobs have done nothing but give me time to deal with that wounded girl/teen/young lady that was inside of me. In terms of bounce back, I found myself hitting a wall completely, reaching my breaking point. I was unhappy enough with what the universe was showing me as it related to the social and dating aspect of my life. I got tired of saying to myself how nice, sweet, kind, funny, ambitious, energetic,…..I was and why does I keep getting mistreated when I have been nothing but kind and tolerant? I got tired of feeling like “I wouldn’t say that to them in 1 million years, but they say it to me with ease”. I got tired of that shit. While out of work, it was just me and my issues. I had to figure out how being treated less than I deserve was ok with me? How was this stuff ever ok with me?! How did it get to be ok? Well my parents, namely my mother made it ok. Not to linger too much on the past, but the root of my issues was never feeling quite ‘safe’. Not having the emotional support or feeling comfortable expressing myself within my parents household. There was a lack in empathy. So, when I essentially chose people and situations that put me in the familiar but depressed and frustrated space of my childhood/adolescence/young adulthood on repeat. While yes, these guys were fully responsible for their words and their ways… However, I had to figure out what sweet, kind, funny, witty, intuitive, supportive, giving, loving ljsrmissy doing with THEM?!!!! Good gravy… I didn’t have my back so it was ok that the guy I was dealing with didn’t have my back. I wasn’t there for me like I deserved to I found it tolerable that they weren’t there for me like I deserve. I simply hit a wall. I knew enough about myself to knew I deserved better results I was getting in life. To be continued…
ljsrmissy
on 04/01/2015 at 5:06 am
Ok continued lol. I took inventory of my strengths. I actually took the time to think about what I LIKE about me. I had the negativity thing down pat. I feel that I am and always have been a lovely young lady with a sugary disposition. And I a learning bit by bit how to separate who I am from what has happened to me, been said to me, been done to me in life. I have also given myself permission to be angry and hurt. Permission to be human. I realized that the lord has brought me through this, my strength even as a little girl, teased and bullied without mercy, not feeling emotionally safe at home, in the depths of depression, was enough to survive and bring me to the woman I am today. And because of that I am already a woman, full, whole, and defined. I am already made. A man cant make me. Now I would like to meet a great guy and have a relationship where we grown and abound in love. Where we facilitate the mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual elevation of each other. However as a woman I have no longer deify men and relationships like we are socialized to do as women. I think this mentality as lead many of us woman to believe that we should be ‘lead’ by men who are more lost, and broken than we could ever dream to be. I know I deserve and work towards a happy, healthy, full, and fruitful life either way. That has done so much in they way of recognizing and passing on crumbs.I have also come to realize a lot about people in general. I find that many many people take kindness for weakness and stupidity. Other will take whatever is not bolted down on us if we don’t enforce our boundaries, especially as women. I find that people will use people for ANYTHING as well. Nat has written many great reads about this very thing. I learned to hear what men say but LISTEN to what men DO. Listen to what men do! We ladies need no stop being so naive to the game. And trust that men come with a game plan. A man recognizing a gung ho, over eager woman. He know that all he has to do is say a few trite, vague works and a thirsty woman’s imaginations, fantasies, and desire of that dream of love, marriage, and a baby carriage will fill in the blanks. Men know how to ‘pump fake’ the possibility of a date, a relationship, a commitment, a marriage, and a future together. And when you actually try to get some clarity or spell it out in clear terms, he will say ‘oh we are just friends, or oh I didn’t mean to give you that impression. Its all game. Even the whole ‘lets see where it goes, I like to take it slow’ game is game lol. Men will say anything. The ends justify the means when it comes to men for the most part. Why do you think men love sports so much? Its all about game, strategy, and who can out think and out do who. Its about competing and conquering for men. Are we naive to believe that many men don’t approach women the same way? We know when a man is truly interested and when he is not. And for these Married ass men, a man who is truly trying to impress a woman or bring his A game is NOT going to come to her with a sob story, especially involving his relationship with ANOTHER WOMAN! We Westerns are too divorce happy to believe that any married man or woman stays in their marriage for another reason that THEY WANT TO. Think about it, this same man that claims that his wife is this and that is the same man that goes to work everyday to make a bigger, better, nicer, and safer life for that same woman he is complaining about. This is also the same man that jumps in his car and goes back, and keep going back to that very woman that doesn’t ‘understand him, while the other woman get nothing but words and a wet spot in the bed. I have come to and am still learning to value my mind, time, energy, and body. To see it as a resource. To see my smile and energy as a resource. And with that being said, to know that there are just those kinds of people, men for the purpose of this site, that I shouldn’t waste my resources on.
happy b
on 04/01/2015 at 11:08 am
ljsrmissy, your future is bright, lots of lessons.
So good to move away from that feeling of giving so much and not being rewarded. A lot of that giving is just reaching out, there is so much more to give once when we stop all the ‘why me’ nonsense and look at where and how we’re focusing our energies.
There are plenty, PLENTY of men who are not as you describe, but the decent, healthy ones will avoid women with low self-esteem, they want to co-pilot, not fill an emotional void and/or take advantage.
So keep on being your sweet, funny, ambitious, kind self, watch your own back, send the ‘let’s see where it goes’ scumbags packing, and great things will come your way!
ljsrmissy
on 04/01/2015 at 5:57 pm
Happy New Years Happy B. Refocusing our energies is right on time. Our hearts our, bodies, minds, and energies are our RESOURCES. Its 2015, and while it is in reality another day, it is also day 4 of 365. And this is PAST RIDICULOUS! The ridiculous train left a long long time ago. And if we as women in are 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and 60’s choose to be suck ass managers and delegaters of our resources, that OUR FAULT. Its not these AC’s, Narcs, EUM’s, or MM’s fault that we REFUSE to be good to ourselves while men REFUSE to NOT put themselves first. We are grown ass women not little girls that need men (that are more clueless than we are) to tell us how to feel about our grown selves.
M.H.
on 04/01/2015 at 2:14 pm
@ljrsmissy- wow. Just wow. I can’t tell you how much I loved this post. I needed this. There is so much that you have written that I can relate to – especially having the negative thing down pat. Thank you. Women need to spend more time building themselves up than tearing themselves down. And I DO think it’s important to revisit your past to try to piece together WHY we, and let others, treat ourselves the way we do. We can’t blame mommy and daddy forever, but when there are emotionally unavailable parents in your childhood, this WILL effect your relationships later in life, unless addressed and recognized. I realize that this is why I’ve chosen/stayed in my past relationships as long as I did. But I’ve removed myself from them and I just want to do this ALONE for awhile. I want a healthy relationship, not one built out of need or insecurity.
ljsrmissy
on 04/01/2015 at 6:16 pm
Happy New Years M.H.
I also think that religion (not spirituality)had a lot to do with how women look themselves. There is just so much that I question and simply no longer believe in terms of what man made and controlled religion has taught me about gender. Religion has taught me to deify men, but life has shown me damn near the total opposite. I dont believe men are Gods second in command or Gods security guards. I dont believe that. I dont believe that women are ‘weak, irrational’ and all that other garbage. Can we have ‘weak’ and ‘irrational’ moments. YES. But men do as well. I no longer believe that women who are not married are lacking in some way. Who a woman is, a man has nothing to do with. I am just speaking about what religion and social propaganda that is pressuring women covertly to subjugate themselves to men who are (what I personally believe) are for the most part (not all) morally/ethically, emotionally lacking and ill equipped. You are spot on about not blaming the parents forever. I often say to myself and remind myself that “I AM HERE” regardless of all that was said and done “I AM HERE” so “what am I going to do?”
“But I’ve removed myself from them and I just want to do this ALONE for awhile. I want a healthy relationship, not one built out of need or insecurity.”
And this is the key, you are spot on. we as women need to actually KNOW WHAT WE WANT before we engage with men.
Veracity
on 06/01/2015 at 11:23 pm
I believe it is important to look back so we can make connections as to how we got to be where we are today. I look back, I just don’t stare!
Colly
on 04/01/2015 at 10:14 am
Thanks to all for your advice on the obsessing. I have to say I’m not just obsessing about my ex, also about my marriage, my past and just generally about me being a mess and desperate to rush myself into fixing me.
I’ve had lots of counselling in the past and am in counselling now, and am well aware of all the events that have helped me to this ghastly place – and many other ghastly places I’ve been to in the past (late teens/early twenties of drug abuse, exercise addiction, failed relationships of all kinds,sexual promiscuity – all this while still getting a PhD). I almost feel like I have analysis paralysis, I understand but can’t turn it into action.
I think most of all I need to build my self esteem, I need to be in a better place before I can make some real decisions. Right now I’m a terrible wife, a terrible mother, just a terrible mess. My marriage is also a mess but the cause and effect aren’t clear.
God, feeling really really bad today, want to scream and run away from everything.
rags mom
on 04/01/2015 at 5:28 pm
Hi Colly, sorry to hear its been a bad day …. are you getting back to work tommorrow as well after the Xmas / New Year holiday ? Maybe its partly tension over having to get back …. have you tried marriage counselling, both of you attending ? We have been in marriage counselling for a year now, but now that I am NC with OM, im finally starting to give marriage counselling the full focus I didnt before, and its not easy, but there are definite benefits, there are things we cudnt easily talk about that we are at least trying to with the counsellor helping ….in an ideal world , relationships wouldnt ‘need work’ but I do think that when two ppl are together for something like 10 or even 5 years , its maybe impractical to think that the two ppl wouldnt grow apart in some ways ….so reconnecting needs a conscious attempt ….
I think u are being too hard on yourself , by tagging yourself ‘terrible wife/mom/etc’ even on a bad day mood …the self esteem course should be great timing from next week ….I struggle with a lot of self esteem issues at the moment too, but I have always been a natural optimist in my teens and twenties, so thats helping me now, ie being able to see the light side ….You sound like you have a great career (Phd, team of your own indicating u are work in a managerial capcity, travel etc) ….and u have a husband who u described as ‘lovely’ and a two year old ….I actually thought OM calling u to ‘help’ him when he needed to umm, donate , for fertility treatment showed that …tho the relationship was wrong (both married, and him not really interested in leaving his marriage) it seemed to have been a real relationship where u both were close and his need of you was real not imagined or exagerated, (albeit by just giving into that need and using u, and then not coming clean with his wife / respecting what he had with u, he did prove himself an AC at the time)….so try and look at both sides of any situation and not be too negative especially on yourself (negative on AC may not be a bad thing especially if u have determined that NC is the right path)
Rosie
on 05/01/2015 at 5:06 am
Rags mom! Wishing she could be there to ‘help’ him ‘donate’ is NOT a compliment!!! What are you thinking or maybe I’m reading your post wrong??? In fact, I don’t know if he could be even more insulting…
lizzp
on 05/01/2015 at 8:20 am
Rosie, ditto!!
Rag’s Mom,
.”.I actually thought OM calling u to ‘help’ him when he needed to umm, donate , for fertility treatment showed that …tho the relationship was wrong (both married, and him not really interested in leaving his marriage) it seemed to have been a real relationship where u both were close and his need of you was real not imagined or exagerated, (albeit by just giving into that need and using u, and then not coming clean with his wife / respecting what he had with u, he did prove himself an AC at the time)….so try and look at both sides of any situation “.
That is pure positive spin, and sorry but it is (unintentional) mind effery in action. What are the “two sides” of this situation that should supposedly provide comfort and a reason for someone to be less ‘hard” on herself? There is only the one side here – this man was confident/arrogant/oblivious/disrespectful enough to call Leanne with an aim to getting himself off during a w..nking session the purpose of which was to start a family with (you guessed it) his WIFE (the woman he is in a contract of marriage with). Yes his actions and behaviour towards Leanne were ‘real’ – his arrogance and disrespect in asking her to be his object appear real. But his behaviour, actions and sense of entitlement during this incident do not represent some sort of sign that this was a ” real relationship where u both were close and his need of you was real not imagined…”. His “need” (if you want to call it that) was to use someone as a sexual object for his own purposes. That was not a need manifesting within a mutual relationship of trust and respect.
Leanne,
you don’t need to be hard on yourself for this incident and I would be saying this whether you had agreed or not. But when you’re ready you will reach a point where you will pat yourself on the back for telling him no that day. You may have some regrets that it wasn’t followed through with an eff you at the time, but go easy on yourself. Self blame gets you nowhere and stops us from learning , and moving on to happier places and recognising our worth.
lizzp
on 05/01/2015 at 8:58 am
Sorry, I am speaking to Colly above, not Leanne. Got the posts mixed up there.
Colly
on 06/01/2015 at 7:39 am
Thanks lizzp, self blame and guilt is my major major trap right now and I know its holding me back.
I do already pat myself on the back for not saying yes, aside from my soul screaming from the wrongness of it, it was also extremely painful given my feelings for him. You know, afterwards he sent me a photograph he’d taken of the artwork on the wall in his little w*nking room and wanted to discuss with me what an odd choice it was.
lizzp
on 14/01/2015 at 10:23 am
Colly, just read this “…afterwards he sent me a photograph he’d taken of the artwork on the wall in his little w*nking room and wanted to discuss with me what an odd choice it was.”…eewk, what a freak.
Colly
on 05/01/2015 at 8:26 am
Yes, being asked to help donate was definitely not nice, a very AC move. At the time I had made my feelings clear that I wanted to be with him and I wanted to help him get custody of his kids (he had alleged his wife was abusive towards him you see and often such people move into their kids too after a time). He knew I dreamt of being with him, his kids, my child, and having our own baby together. OK so I should have walked when he said he couldn’t leave his wife, and definitely when he said they were trying for another baby, but the whole abuse thug kicked me into Flirence Nightingale mode and I just tried to fix him so he could see I was a better option. He kept me around until he felt strong enough “to fix himself on his own and give his wife 100% chance to change. Whatever love he expressed and still does today he used me very badly and it is all just terribly, terribly painful.
Colly
on 05/01/2015 at 10:09 am
Apologies for all the typos!
lizzp
on 05/01/2015 at 2:25 pm
Colly, it will be ok. Going through this horrendous pain is unavoidable after an emotional over investment in an EU person. It is a first stage of healing and learning about ourselves and our unhealthy patterns. You will come out the other end. It will just take some time.
lizzp
on 05/01/2015 at 2:31 pm
p.s probably what you need to work on is being emotionally available to yourself – that could be very painful too of course, but a better and more honest pain than feeling trapped within yourself as you describe in comment to Rags mom below.
Colly
on 05/01/2015 at 8:18 am
@rags mom, yeah nobody would know I was a wreck from the outside and on paper my life sounds like a dream, but I’ve been trained from a young age by very EU parents to present a good front. Truth is I feel so lonely and starved of love. I can feel me trapped inside this little box dying to come out but being terrified I’ll be rejected and abandoned for showing my true colours. In some ways, but not all, I could express and be me in the affair, it was at least ok to talk about such things (although I did a lot of people pleasing too to try and keep him – as I have people pleased my whole life).
In my marriage this feels like an impossibility. I’ve come to a low point before and eventually told my husband and he was horrified that he didn’t notice I was depressed, but at the same time just doesn’t get it how someone’s past can bother them so much. I’m getting to the point where I’m going to have to do something because I can’t stand another second.
The relationship in the affair was very real, and the love was genuine. I really wanted to be with him. That said, the AC things he did made me think that his brand of love was not really what I needed. I’ll never understand how he claimed to be in love with his wife and want to try for more children with her and yet say he loved me.
The marriage counselling is an option if I can even get as far as broaching the subject. I can see how your marriage counselling wouldn’t work until you went NC with OM. I don’t know how it would all work for me though because I can’t own up to the affair.
Anyway, sat outside in the car outside my counsellors house which is a good thing. Self esteem course starting today. I am also back at work today so just hoping I don’t hear from OM.
rags mom
on 04/01/2015 at 10:41 am
@Leanne,
Hey, I think I only sounded a lot more in control cos my posts were shorter, but that was really more due to having to get back to work from tommorrow (like you, after a couple of weeks mostly off) and my son has been demanding attention (not that I mind lol) since hes been off preschool these past two weeks as well and is back in from tommorrow.
I struggle a lot too Leanne, but NC does get better with time, I have found that too be true ….as I said, i was waking up with a pounding headache for almost months after I left the old job, cos I had got that dependant on the ‘colleagues’ bond with OM ….for a while, it was even ‘boring and dull’ to get used to the idea at the new job that once again ‘going into work’ was just that ‘going into work’….that shows how far reality had been distorted for me tho by the time I got serious abt NC.
I broke NC many times before getting serious abt it….its 18 months now since I met OM in July 2013 (oh the memories…but thankfully all coloured in black and white and faded now, doesnt seem vivid and just yesterday anymore) ….with me, it took multiple rounds of breaking NC to fully realise that it was the only solution = short term pain (maybe even a year or two) but long term peace (already feeling this) ….
somewhere along the way it sank in gradually that what I really was hoping to hear him say was one thing ‘ I want to be with you, leave your marriage and lets be together, I’ll show you that we are worth it’ ….and even in the scenario where he might have said that Im not sure I still would have wanted to ignore my concerns over the age difference or impact on my son of divorce ….im not sure how far I would have been able to hurt my husband , who despite OM, is still my husband of 11 years, the object of my girlhood dreams, the only man I have ever ‘been’ with (in the biblical sense lol)
its almost like I just needed to hear OM say that I meant that much to him and then I wanted to do the right thing ….Maybe, or maybe him actually saying those words would have had a different end outcome, we will never know …but I dont really yearn for it anymore, ….
NC is very cleansing, makes u see things for what they are , and also as women we sometimes put ourselves in very hurtful situations (do i want to risk hurting my husband repeatedly just to be OM’s ‘agony aunt’ not so keen on that anymore)
keep talking on here, and u yourself will see ur perspective changing….but it will be very very gradual…..may not be by day 45, altho the short term targets are good milestones …I still miss him, but the nature of the emotion has changed, the pain has definitely reduced….
rags mom
on 04/01/2015 at 11:44 am
Hey I also wanted to add this = if NC is too painful, maybe a short term solution is to just think of it as shorter term than forever. its kind of a way of cheating urself into beliveing thats it not the absolute end, to make it less painful. Im not explaining it well but what I mean is –
I first got on NC boat by telling myself we couldnt be just friends or anything more right now. I told myself maybe when my son was much older, maybe the age gap of 9 years would seem lesser when we were both ‘middle aged’ rather than just one of us , i told myself a friendship was possible perhaps after he was married with kids too …none of this made logical sense neccesarily but it got me thru the first few weeks , i even fantasised a lot of hollywood movie style reunion 5 years, or 10 years from now (‘wow, she looks so hot’ yada yada) ….it got me through for a while and now I dont need those fantasises as much. I still think of reconnecting to catch up say on email over the phone someday as I find it sad to think of never ever talking to him again or knowing how things turned out for him (whom did he marry, how many kids, etc etc) …but Im more at peace at the possibility of never talking again as well as time passes. Get yourself thru the first few months in as kind and with as much humor/fun/ cheer as you possibly can muster. I really understood that he is not my best friend, only I can be my own best friend, and consistently protect myself from hurt, no one else can do this for us
Reeling Colly
on 04/01/2015 at 4:07 pm
Oh no, work again tomorrow, and back to the tense, sick feeling running up to 12 noon when ex would call on his way into work everyday (5 HR time difference between us). Funny because he hardly ever calls now but I know when he’s going to, and I’m getting that sinking feeling my NC will power will be tested tomorrow. I need to not pick up, that will be my mantra for the next 24 hours.
@rags mom, you do sound wonderfully in control, and I’m guessing it’s time and NC that does that, it’s an inspiration.
Leanne
on 04/01/2015 at 5:08 pm
Thanks guys. I made it to day 18! So I sent the text this morning (please don’t come by my office anymore, as we shouldn’t be chatting and friends.). And his response.. Sorry he has been so quiet lately, he found out before xmas that his wife is pregnant. Omg!! What was he doing with me if they were trying to have a baby?? Again, I never slept with him, but he shouldn’t have been making out with me and stringing me along. He knew how I felt, and he dragged my heart along while I was trying to get out (meanwhile starting a family with his wife!).
Wtf is wrong with this man?? I know I am responsible for my own actions here, but this is so painful! Anyways, I havent responded. I think im going to spend the next couple days screaming into my pillow (maybe call in sick tomorrow). I am so embarrassed! And the worst thing is, he sounds all sympathetic and condescending in his response, like “I know you’re so in love with me and I’m sorry I can’t be with you.. But my wife and I are having an amazing life. I feel really bad for you and il be there for you to watch you recover from me.” He said he still wants to still be friends! What an AC, right?? This is insane!
Diane
on 05/01/2015 at 1:06 am
This I’m sure is utterly painful news, Leanne, but very good news for YOU nonetheless. What more incentive could you need to stay NC, stay away from him, and not cont. to indulge in fantasies about him? And now you know him for exactly what he is. Not what he pretended to be with you. Poor wife.
Wiser
on 05/01/2015 at 1:27 am
Leanne, this guy is pathetic, a loser, a weak coward and definitely NOT someone you want to be friends with. What an asshole! I feel incredibly sorry for his wife. Now that you’ve stated your boundaries, you MUST go total NC, and BLOCK him completely from being able to write you these careless and utterly thoughtless responses. If you don’t, you are going to feel like this every time you read an email from him – and you will have no one to blame but yourself. Reading emails from him even if you don’t respond is STILL breaking no contact. You’re just going to cause yourself more pain, believe me. You also need to sever contact with him in your mind, like trying to figure out why he did x, y or z (forget it, it’s a hopeless task) or what he thinks or what anything between you meant to him, and so on. I wasted SO much time agonizing over this crap in my situation – looking back I think I actually chose actions that would cause me pain and whip up drama, because it gave me the illusion that we still had some kind of connection, and a painful connection was better than none at all. All crazy thinking! I want to try to spare you some of that.
I know it doesn’t feel like it at the moment, but you dodged a bullet here – be GLAD, in fact get on your knees and thank God that you didn’t sleep with this guy! Take care of your own heart now and don’t allow him to lob bombs in your direction!
Suki
on 05/01/2015 at 2:20 am
Leanne, this is crazy! He is totally AC. He could have replied just saying ‘ok fine’ or ‘i understand’. He could have saved that pregnancy announcement for later; of course he could also have just stayed loyal to his wife. Please know this is NOT a reflection on you. Its nothing to be embarrassed about. He wants you to be embarrassed. Dont be embarrassed, take responsibility – sometimes we fall for a&&holes and thats just how life is and it takes a while to get over it. You’re going through the ‘get over the a&&hole phase’ and it takes time. Block it in your calendar. Three months of g-o-a-p. It will hopefully take far less than that. I just started getting emails from the EU on our group social email – I am rereading everything I have journaled about him. I am not interested anymore but the bad feelings dont go away. So know that you are not alone in these feelings, we’ve all been there or are there… And yes, we can all confirm for you, he is a total AC.
Living well is the best revenge; stay classy. I suggest buying some great new outfits, and changing some of your work routines e.g. where you have lunch. Its a new year so its a good time to say these are your new year resolutions and change work habits in a way that others won’t comment and will keep you away from him, and inject some newness in your routine. Help you get out of the rut.
ljsrmissy
on 05/01/2015 at 3:24 am
Leanne, Leanne, Leanne! We are grown women here so I’m not going to pull no punches. Big girl panty time. This is a married man…how did you think this story was going to end? Did the man tell you he was going to get a divorce…no? Separated? Crashing on a neighbors couch? Did this man even say that he was ‘unhappy’ with his marriage at least? No? Well what are you upset about? How did he string you along? I can tell you what he was doing with you, he was having some extracurricular fun. You know, between ‘friends’. Whatever he said about her is moot as he chose and continues to choose to work and every day to make live and living better for HER. And he jump in his car everyday to go home to HER. It seems to me he was very clear or what this was, while you were not. This man has been pulling the ‘friend’ card on you. What do you think that meant? Heck for all you could know, his marriage could be going wonderful and he told you or you took it as his marriage was in trouble or unhappy. This married man and his WIFE are having a baby… what are you upset about? How much of this is stuff that he actually said or did to lead you to believe that it was going to be you and him together vs. your overactive imagination connecting dots that didn’t exist? I don’t want you to receive my post as a judgement, but asking you to ask yourself honest questions as this isn’t about him I believe as much as it is a lesson for YOU.
Colly
on 05/01/2015 at 2:45 pm
Leanne,
I really do know how this feels, if you’ve read my posts you’ll know my ex MM invited me to join him by FaceTime to help him donate for his wife at the fertility clinic. Like you, I could never understand how someone could be building a life and planning a family with someone while having an affair – that is just total AC behaviour to me. To my shame I was in so deep and my self esteem was so low that I just told him I didn’t want to hear about any of this else there is no way I could ever go near him again, when I should have just left for my own dignity and for the sake of his wife. Its this thing I cling onto and remember when I get too nostalgic about him, if that’s his idea of love then I’d rather not have it.
I still have to work with my ex MM occasionally and I am dreading hearing about a new pregnancy either directly from him or through the grapevipe.
I’ve also had the condescending tone from him too, its horrible. I was in a terrible state a few weeks back, like thinking suicidal thoughts, and ended up calling him because I didn’t know where else to turn. In this conversation he told me he loved and he always would, but his life was really starting to turn around and be different, and that I shouldn’t be mad with him because he was sorting his life out but I wasn’t able to sort mine out.
Yuk, these guys really do come in the same package. I’d class myself as a bit of an AC but not in this league.
Leave well alone Leanne.
Rosie
on 06/01/2015 at 4:05 am
Wow, Colly- You’re sure you were in love with him? It sounds like you didn’t know him that well. This sleazebag grosses me out. Yet, this side of him didn’t show until later, it seems.
Colly
on 06/01/2015 at 7:51 am
Hi Rosie, you know I focused on the man I’d first met, cherry picked the best bits, pushed down the bad stuff, did some projecting and was in love with the result. I didn’t know about the really bad stuff until much later on, in the last three months, by which time my self esteem was so eroded from being the OW that I just minimised my needs and pain further and stuck at it.
He helped me to do this by telling me his wife is abusive towards him which kicked in me into fixer upper mode and focused me on trying to fix him up to leave and be with me. It was never going to happen, I knew that, he told me he could never leave because his family would disown him, his wife would alienate his kids against him and may even stab him in his sleep.I thought my love could conquer all.
I feel foolish right now and am blaming myself for it all right now – lots of hours spent telling myself “I should have…”.
ljsrmissy
on 04/01/2015 at 7:17 pm
I feel that while we as women, namely fall back girls, are sooooo justified in wanting love and romance with a great partner, in our eagerness to have these things we consistently delude ourselves and choose to not take an HONEST and REALISTIC look at the men and situations that are before us too often. This is where I went wrong in the past definitely! We see that these men are married (and going to work for and home to the wives EVERYDAY), still hung up on some other chick, we see that these guys have substance abuse problems, all of these personal problems, all of these emotional problems and we still are trying to be serious with these guys. What kind of ‘relationship’ do we think these guys can give us? Now the men are telling women straight up that they don’t want nothing serious..and women get mad and feel cheated when he wont commit! What the what?!
I played games with my own mind. Now before I say what I am going to say, as a woman,you all don’t have to take my word for this, just ask a man that doesn’t have a vested interest in lying to you. I believe most men believe on one level or another that women are here for them. To serve them, and to put it plainly, be at their disposal. And just because a man has approached you and asked you for your phone number, spending time with you, and sleeping with you, does NOT mean that he necessarily like YOU (as an individual). It is not enough to assume that just because a man is coming around, talking a lot, even if he is not sleeping with you, that he is interested in a future with you. We as women need to delineate what these guys are around coming around us for. Because many men are not necesarilly after someONE, but someTHING (sex, ego strokes, free therapy,free ideas, control,a sound board,) Nat has great reads on all of this. We need to delineate if he is here for us or the SERVICES that women provide and he just happen to be getting those ‘services’ from us. This is why a man can move on from us without batting an eye lash and go to the next woman. A man can be here with us, but he is not with us emotionally. a man can be here with us, but not here for us. We must learn the difference!! A man often times is after someTHING (usually dealing with his own ego) not someONE and that’s why some guys bounce from woman to woman…because it is NOT about that particular woman, but whatever he is trying to get. Married men fall into this category. He already has a someone at home so know that if we become the other women, he is not looking for us, but that sense of something his someone is not giving him. Men have a particular woman or qualities of a woman that they would like to settle down with, however they will ‘loiter’ with just about any woman. A man will loiter and sleep with a woman he is not particularly attracted to and one that he doesn’t like very much. If you are a woman that wants love and marriage, BE REAL about whether you sense that your current guy is just ‘loitering’. Another BR posted had an analogy of men going after women they don’t want like dogs go after cars they know they cant drive. Its exercise, entertainment, and ‘something to do’. I like to use the analogy of how we will eat all types of chips and dip at a party, just because it is there. If it wasn’t there, we wouldn’t have given it a first thought and these certain foods are definitely something that we wouldn’t go to the grocers and buy on our own. But if its just ‘there’ then sure,we will take some. Why not? I know plenty of men view women, certain women this very way. You are someone he flirts with at the office or when he runs into you, but he wouldn’t seek you on his own. Also, if you know you look a certain way, and you notice that he is always talking about how he finds certain celebs (that look nothing like you) ‘hot’, don’t ignore that. Lets not date/sleep with men that we get a sense look down on us, we would be goners if he were to get his stuff together, and who secretly aspire to be with women who are other than us and who are nothing like us.
Eyes Wide Open
on 04/01/2015 at 7:21 pm
Sofia,
Looks like we dated almost the same weirdo. I can’t believe yours never even stayed at your place! I would have yelled at mine. The future faking is even a good laugh now. He would tell me where we were going to move together and how much we would spend and financial set up for how we would split certain bills and when I lost my job to a lay off he suggested my moms house two hours away if I didn’t get a job right away! Seriously? That crossed your mind when you have been saying all these things about us living together? That was the final straw for me. He offered to pay my rent over giving me a place to live if things got bad (thankfully God had my back and I got an even better job). I honestly felt like he believed his own lies of what the future held. But he always ran when things got too serious. Hell even doing family weddings and events together was too much pressure (I met them but never got a chance to grow a relationship with them). Yet he loved spending time with my mom which I guess was less risky for him. One time after we broke up he mentioned in convo “the day I settle down and have a family” and I literally laughed in his face and said yea you might want to work on the small stuff first. lLOL. He will end up alone for years if not forever. I was his first gf in 12 years and he is nowhere near even ready for a serious relationship at 34 because of his issues. Good luck buddy!
lizzp
on 05/01/2015 at 2:13 pm
Eyes (very, very) wide open,
“good luck buddy” – haha – that just made me laugh, there’s a great, and no doubt hard won, attitude.
I love the way you have described handling yourself over the attempted return of this deluded man over the last month on here. Keep up the good work, your confidence, decisiveness, self care and self trust.
Happy New Year to all!
Sofia
on 06/01/2015 at 4:07 am
Eyes Wide Open,
Your ex was more available than the guy I had been with. He would not meet with my friends or attend a holiday corporate party with me (after knowing me for 10-11 months). His reply was, “No way.” And no way I could meet his family and friends for holidays (another country) after almost a year of knowing him. I don’t know what was wrong with me not seeing or rather accepting all of this and what came before it. Looking back I see how damaged I was. A lost abandoned rejected girl who didn’t love herself and thought it was normal to be treated like that. I don’t even question anymore what and why he did. I am amazed at how and why I allowed it. The ex was 34 too at the time and never lived with a woman nor did he have a relationship lasting beyond 1,5 year or so. 3-6 month I think was a norm. If he gets married I would not be surprised though (although I will never find out. We have no contact at all, no common friends, no social media). I would not be surprised because I hear a lot that people like that “wake up” and realize they can do it only not with us. And if he doesn’t settle down it doesn’t matter either. I am getting very close to be indifferent which route he takes although I don’t want to know. I am concentrating on my life changes that I have been going through and bouncing back exactly at my own speed without any pressure from anyone anymore. This article is really great. Reinforces our commitment to be loving to ourselves.
Peanut
on 04/01/2015 at 11:23 pm
Nat,
Your materials are superb. Thank you again for helping me in the journey of recovering my life.
Happy New Years to you and yours
XX
Peanut
Diane
on 05/01/2015 at 12:59 am
Hi ladies,
I thought I would share this tidbit about EUMs, written by a man on another site. It’s a good reminder that while we’re sticking around, patiently waiting for a man to “come to his senses” and that he will one day “wake up” etc, we are actually lowering our value in his eyes to the point where even if he does “wake up” one day — it won’t be with you! Check it out:
“Men use a formula to assign value to the women in their lives and a large part of that formula is derived from how much we believe that woman values herself. If you’ve been giving us all of you while requiring nothing more than our bare minimum then that negatively affects how much we believe you value yourself and we know in our heart we can never be with you. No matter how much we want to, we can’t build up the motivation to give you everything if we know you’ve been content with us giving you barely anything.”
rags mom
on 05/01/2015 at 1:44 pm
thank you , this was very very useful and confirms what we already know …..
Rosie
on 06/01/2015 at 3:28 am
Diane- Yes…and no. Ask him why the slow fade when a woman values herself enough not to have sex after a mere three dates? There’s a lot of blaming the victim out there. Yes, it’s difficult to take someone seriously who obviously doesn’t take herself seriously but his bad behavior is on him. A respectful person would just stop dating the other person. S/he wouldn’t string the other person along, etc. & then blame the other person for it, “I would have liked you and treated you right if you just had some self-esteem…”
Gina
on 06/01/2015 at 8:38 pm
Rosie,
I am wholeheartedly with you in your response to the ‘formula’. If I know someone is not treating themselves proper (most vulnerable) then I wouldn’t milk it/string someone along and then have the audacity to put it back on the (vulnerable) person that they can never ever ever be deserving (heart and motivation thrown in) of my lifelong companionship??!!
The ‘formula’ is very disrespectful, very judgmental, very entitled and very delusional thinking and attitude placed on women by dickheads to which this ‘formula’ is only applicable to. I personally know some men who stay and are there for the long haul, no matter what.
Sofia
on 06/01/2015 at 4:13 am
True. One point I thought reading this is that a decent guy will not string a person along giving her “barely anything,” while taking all the goodies he can. Kind decent people don’t do that. Yes, there is a discovery time. However, later, if they are not sure about their feelings (or so they say), that they need more time, etc., while having the convenience of receiving and not giving and continuing the usery at this point, that’s just not very nice. I don’t know who wrote that paragraph. It is true because men do it and women allow it ( I did). It is not representative for all men though. I still hope so.
Gina
on 06/01/2015 at 8:55 pm
Agree with your sentiments too Sofia, and nicely put your view as yes do the decent thing and leave or (mutually) point out and work on whatever issue is occurring together…what partnership is all about really. And I think women allow it (likewise for men) as they are wanting something from it as well so two way street here. Sadly in the end there is no healthy balance/compromise so do the decent thing and walk away (like I did).
I would like to add dysfunctional to my list in paragraph two…
Eyes Wide Open
on 05/01/2015 at 5:54 am
Sarah Elle and Sofia,
As far as Sarah I would advise you to not respond too. If he was so sorry he would have told you long ago. It’s an excuse to get back into your life because he wants to see how far he can get with you and test the waters again. Not necessarily because he truly means it, or he would have told you long ago.
Sofia-
Consider is a blessing even though we sometimes want the im sorry for closure. I had another serious relationship in which I never got the empathy or I’m sorry and it was easier to move on because the few contact attempts were retarded like one time that ex texted me after a year of now speaking and said “hey!!! How is your day!” As if nothing happened lol. When before that I think I told him to get lost a year prior haha. But honestly that was easier to move on from than this last ex of mine. He will not leave me alone and will never delete my number (his words) and in his contact attempts it’s been awful because it has been “I miss you so much, I love you so much, I’m so sorry I’m such a disaster in relationships because of my horrible upbringing with 3 divorces with my mom, I cry every day”. It makes it worse. The cold attempts by my ex prior to him made it easy to just be mad and move on. This is hard because you feel this sense of so many different emotions like “I wish I could help him he’s so lost” “I hate him he wasted my time twice to run away again” it’s very hard. I finally did block him because I couldn’t take anymore pain. I was reliving it constantly and although I would never ever want to reconsider us and have zero intentions to ever be back together it still hurts. Be happy that you don’t get the heart felt apology because believe it or not it’s even harder to move on 🙁
Diane
on 06/01/2015 at 3:40 am
EWO, good idea blocking him. I got the same sob stories from my exEUM, I remember at one point he was like, “Give me one more chance and I will spend the rest of my life making you happy.” After he’d lied to me yet again about something yet again, I brought that up, and he looked at me blankly and denied he’d ever said that. That was his typical modus operandi. All that b.s. is what made me stay in that for so long. I would have much preferred a cold person I could have turned away from. Someone who would cry and beg and plead made me stay. Such a mistake.
Sofia
on 06/01/2015 at 4:26 am
Eyes Wide Open,
I see what you mean. I had an ex like that and he would not leave me alone for several years! Although he was the one who left. He e-mailed and texted and called. Regularly and saying, ” I miss you.” Yes it was difficult back then to get over him, but now I see it because I really thought he loved me and missed me! If this ex happened to me now, I would laugh his communication off. I would block him. A guy who really means it will not do these things. He will either try to reconcile or he will grieve and move on silently or almost silently on his own. Maybe some odd stupid texts like, “Hey, how are you?” after a year. Awkward. I don’t expect communication from my ex because he is a very proud person. Last time he contacted me I asked why you are contacting and whether there is anything you need to tell me or ask me? He disappeared after that question. So although I am getting close to indifferent (hopefully looks like I am, but pre-holidays and holidays were hard still although I had resolved to not assign any meaning to the holidays), I still think that now the crazy “I miss you” communication would have helped me to get over any ex faster because I would devalue this kind of communication instantly because there are no actions and no attempt to reconcile. The silence of this ex (most recent) however tells me he is completely over and moved on and respects my wishes and I will not hear from him again. Short-term it’s harder, but I see what you mean. In the long-term it is a blessing. It is cut off and done, no doubt about it.
Leanne
on 05/01/2015 at 7:19 am
Thanks ladies. Argh!! I am so angry right now! Not about the pregnancy (that is just ridiculous and sad) but about him being condescending to me after all he’s put me through. What a piece of s—! Seriously. I know I had a role in this, but he has been so horrible to me! I feel like I want to email him and tell him off and then email his wife and tell her what a lying, cheating crapbag she is married to!
He was the one who pursued me (pretty relentlessly I might add). i told him I wanted out pretty early, but he kept pursuing me hard and then pulling back. I feel like he’s being condescending to me because of the way I acted in December, but that was just in reaction to him being a total jackass to me! Man I wish this guy would suffer some kind of consequence for being such a jerk! I wish losing me was enough, but I can tell he’ll rationalize it in whatever way best fits his story and his ego (ah, too bad for poor Leanne, she was so in love me but alas, I love my wife. I am such a great guy.. She must be sitting around pining over me. Too bad there aren’t more of me to go around).
He is a total. AC right?? I’m glad at least that this happened so I can see and accept this more easily. Is it crazy to want to email him and tell him that I’m not sad anymore.. That I’m happy that he’s not in my life because he is a pathetic sack of s—? And is it crazy to want to email his wife and tell her what a no good cheat he is? And a mean and condescending one at that?! Would you want to know if you were her??
Sorry I’m sure I sound totally irrational right now! It’s late at night (my worst time of day) and I’ve got to go into the office tomorrow. This is just like a bomb that makes this whole situation feel so much worse.
lizzp
on 05/01/2015 at 8:47 am
Leanne, silence is the best treatment for these ACs. They love any reaction. But doo it for yourself, your dignity. You want to get a reaction out of him and are forgetting already that he is not capable of giving the validation you crave or acknowledging his own part. He has shown you that already many time remember? Have you already forgotten his response to your text telling him to leave you alone? As someone said here – take responsibility insofar as recognising you made a mistake – we all do – and that what you are dealing with here is a a high calibre a*hole. You can’t change him. He was an A8hole before you knew him. Go NC. Vent here and let your silence speak for you. You wanting to argue, send emails to his wife etc, are all driven by a need for him to acknowledge his actions and validate that he was wrong and you are good/right. You can get that from yourself. HE IS NOT GOING TO VALIDATE YOUR WORTH FOR YOU. Read the posts on this and the comments above that already speak to this.
lizzp
on 05/01/2015 at 8:50 am
p.s. As Nat says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to get a different result.
Colly
on 05/01/2015 at 10:15 am
Hey Leanne, it’s not crazy to want to do all those things (hell I do too often), but it would be crazy to actually do then. Get your anger out here and in unsent letters, but to him all you show is silent dignity. I hope you managed to get some sleep!
Wiser
on 05/01/2015 at 2:47 pm
Leanne, yes is it crazy and irrational to want to email him and tell him what a piece of shit he is, and tell his wife, and want revenge… and it’s understandable. This phase is pretty much unavoidable and we’ve ALL been through it. As Suki says, it’s the “getting over the asshole phase” and you’re just at the beginning when the rage volcano is threatening to blow every three minutes. Your emotions are all churned up and none of this advice is sinking in yet – all we can do is sigh and watch it happen. Try to make just one promise, ok? Don’t DO anything regarding him. Vent here, journal, beat your pillow, write a nasty letter (not to send) but DO NOT respond to him, her, anybody. Don’t beat yourself up either. Learn from this, LEARN, LEARN!!! You’ll get through this, hon. Ok, advice over. 🙂
Mephista
on 05/01/2015 at 3:56 pm
Leanne, it’s fine to be irrational here but don’t be irrational with him (or his wife). This means no emailing anybody explaining what beyond AC he is. All you would accomplish is him saying nothing actually happened between you two (which is true) and everything is your active imagination (which I’m 1000pc sure is not). Hence, you’re a psycho who imagines things and a psycho who writes strange emails to pregnant women.
He’s not having amazing life because people with amazing lives don’t pursue other women even after they’ve been told their attentions are no longer wanted. This is indeed a blessing in disguise for you. You no longer need to worry about him bothering you, you’ve seen his very true colours, you’ve learnt an important lesson of leaving any kind of married men alone in every respect and you’ve found BR! 🙂
lizzp
on 06/01/2015 at 3:31 am
Spot on Mephista. Every word.
Regarding Bouncing Back: In some ways I’m thinking the term ‘bouncing back’ is a little deceptive. To bounce back from a painful relationship and/or breakup implies that we are regaining ourselves. But if we have learnt something about our own destructive and self sabotaging relationship patterns then when we do finally ‘bounce back’ what we’ve really done is bounced back and beyond. Because we have moved on with more awareness than before. I think part of the struggle is realising that we can’t *go back* to who we were before as if these painful situations never were. We have to understand that these experiences can help us change, can trigger more self awareness. If we have truly bounced back then there will be some change – we are no longer that same person who did x y or z (for e.g I am no longer that woman who ACCEPTED ADVANCES FROM MARRIED MEN; ACCEPTED AMBIGUOUS HOT AND COLD BEHAVIOUR; PEOPLE PLEASED HERSELF INTO OBLIVION ). Bouncing back CAN take a long time, especially if in the bouncing back from a particular situation we are also moving forward into new self awareness.
Veracity
on 06/01/2015 at 10:05 pm
Agreed. I always feel lighter after I’ve worked through an experience like this.
Diane
on 06/01/2015 at 3:42 am
Even if she believes you, which she won’t, he’ll talk her out of it. Who is she going to believe, some woman she’s never met (I guess?) or her husband, the father of her baby on the way? She may, deep down, believe you, but she’s going to stick w him anyway. And then you’ll just feel worse. She’s just not in a position to leave willy-nilly based on something some woman emails her that she has no proof of.
rags mom
on 05/01/2015 at 11:37 am
@Leanne, I was on the train to work when I read your post and all I could say was the F word again and again (dont normally swear but ACs can do that to us) ….I cudnt even type a response right away.
Please do call in sick for a day or two if you need to just digest a bit before going back in.
There is nothing more to be said to this AC, Leanne, he is not your Jim. Unless Jim is a disgusting pig. More later,
doormat
on 05/01/2015 at 6:36 pm
Natalie – amazingly worded. This is exactly what I am going through now. My grieving over a current loss of a relationship (after NC for a year) allowed me to process things and get perspective. I realized that my accumulated baggage from 3 past relationships were being tugged simultaneously with this grief. Also because betrayal was the common theme that ran through them all. I had not dealt with my anger from 20 years ago. Its all coming out now…the floodgates have opened. I am finding the baggage flow out of me through every pore! Its unbelievable how light I feel. And that is making me feel so much younger and happier in my heart.A day or two back, I ended NC with asking my ex to piss off, in a firmly worded text, that was sent to warn him that he would face consequences if he continued to text me. I would never have been able to say the things i did before. At last I feel empowered, in control and am starting to take care of me. Your words are a blessing. Thank you.
rags mom
on 05/01/2015 at 1:46 pm
Hey Lizzp and Rosie, I guess the fact that I thought Colly being called by her AC EUM OM/MM to help him donate showed some real need in the relationship …just goes to show how far low on self esteem I have sunk in recent months…..
Colly
on 06/01/2015 at 7:57 am
@rags mom, there was some real need in the relationship, he did describe me as his best friend and said he told me everything. He didn’t seem to be allowed to have friends of his own outside those that were on his wife’s approved list – so you weren’t totally wrong. The donation help though was just an AC move though, surely his wife should have been the one he turned to for help with that one?
What has dented your self esteem in recent months, I thought things were getting much better for you?
rags mom
on 05/01/2015 at 1:49 pm
Leanne, I do hope you dont spare another word for the assclown again…but I too hope his wife somehow finds out (from some one else / by accident from AC himself) and that he faces consequences….
its amzing how he sent u that very very horrible text trumpeting how his life with his wife was ‘amazing’ and that he would ‘see you recover’ (does he want a bag of popcorn while he watches???) ….and yet he doesnt fear that you would cause any trouble by tell-alling on the makeouts to ppl at work or even his wife ….this guy doesnt even feel fear let alone guilt and other normal emotions….
ljsrmissy
on 05/01/2015 at 2:01 pm
@Leanne I agree with the rest of the ladies. Do not text/email this man as that does nothing but prove that whatever you want him to know is not the case, is the case. IT IS FINISHED. He pursued you even when you pulled away in the same manner that we throw out the jerk back yoyo’s for our own amusement. It was for entertainment purposes…nothing more. Don’t worry about him or his wife…trust me, they are fine. Even if you told his wife, they just found out they are expecting. Do you think either one of them are going anywhere anytime soon? This lesson is for YOU. Take your toys and go home on this one….take your toys and go home.
doormat
on 05/01/2015 at 7:32 pm
I want to add.
An ex who tried to ruin my new year with an unsolicited text was well dealt with. As much as I have tried to practice the not ‘telling them all about themselves’ approach, and it worked well for a year… I have to say, that every time I was pinged I felt great anger. I needed that distance and control over my anger during NC. But today I feel stronger. A year after NC, he used New Year’s to text me with sloppy sentiment. I decided after 2 days of saying nothing, that it would do me a lot of good to express myself in one final definitive manner.
His new year text had ended with “I hope you don’t find this inappropriate…”
Now this AC, actually screwed me over with my (ex) best friend, who I also gave apiece of my mind to.
To AC’s text I replied…
“Inappropriate is too mild a word. It’s a pathetic joke. In case it hasn’t dawned on you yet, I don’t give a rat’s ass about what you want or wish to do…So spare me your shallow sentiment and spam someone else. You are a just a cowardly, lying, opportunistic, selfish person who cannot be trusted. I’m glad your out of my life and I don’t miss you at all. I’m relieved. But I wish you well, always. Have a great life, and I hope you never have to hi through what I did. S and you truly deserve each other. Happy 2015”
Now that should keep him at bay for a couple of years. If not, I know that he cannot ever ruin my peace again. I do not fear his texts or unwanted intrusion anymore. And something tells me he wont dare to text me again.
I can’t think of a better start to the new year.
ljsrmissy
on 05/01/2015 at 11:09 pm
Doormat, I totally understand how the displays of tactlessnes and inconsideration, and self servingness (is that even a word lol) of these AC’s, even after months, and years, just get to be too much! Just when we think these guys cant top themselves..
Veracity
on 05/01/2015 at 11:46 pm
doormat…no more. I bet that felt great!!
Ethelreda the Unready
on 06/01/2015 at 7:57 am
I had a resurgent Being as well! A much younger but very ‘wet’ guy (UK readers will understand what I mean here) who has been hanging around on my periphery for a couple of years now. I met him through the last EUM, which is a bad sign in itself.
This guy will come to my church sometimes and stare at me, but won’t say hi in real life – but he will pop up in my gmail online chat box, or he will email me. It’s And it’s very half-arsed; he can’t seem to make up his mind if he wants to ask me out, or just keep in my good books because he needs me as a job referee.
He popped up the other day, and I was quite blunt. I don’t think he will resurge for a while now, if ever again.
Ah, happy release.
Veracity
on 06/01/2015 at 10:08 pm
Okay, I have to ask, what’s a ‘wet’ guy? 🙂 I’m from the U.S. and a very curious person!
Ethelreda the Unready
on 07/01/2015 at 12:15 am
Hugh Grant in every single movie in his younger days. Inarticulate, lame, cowardly, easily flustered, no clear direction, flip flapping, etc.
Veracity
on 07/01/2015 at 12:39 pm
Got it, thanks!
Mephista
on 06/01/2015 at 11:57 am
Hahaha, I like ‘spam someone else’.
doormat
on 06/01/2015 at 6:23 pm
@veracity, ljsrmissy…mephista
Yes its the best thing I have done for myself.
It felt like a million dollars:-)
Leanne
on 06/01/2015 at 1:45 am
Thanks for your insight everyone. I am feeling (slightly) calmer today and did not email him or his wife or do anything crazy. I am dreading this evening when the crazies will rear their ugly head again, but trying to get through this and process it (before I get back to the task of working on myself).
I think my old post was slightly confusing. MM never said the stuff directly (ie. We’re having an amazing life and I feel sorry for you and will be there for you while I move on), he just implied this in his tone and what he said. Whatever! He is an AC and I am so glad I can see that now!!
He did lead me on and string me along, despite waffling too. So yes, I need to own my part in it and I appreciate that being pointed out. I honestly think with a bit more clarity that what happened was he was pretty happily married, met me at work and we became friends, realized he liked me a lot (as did I him), but didn’t know what to do. Then we tried o just be friends but it got stronger and stronger. I said I’m moving out from bf and he said that’s a good idea. He said he and his wife are really just friends too he just didn’t know what to do about it. I tried to back off and he pursued. But when he continued to waffle, I told him I couldn’t handle this. He pulled back and then pursued over and over. I tried to stay resolute but also thought he was changing his mind and/or trying to decide. I think he really was still trying to figure out what to do until I snapped. Then he thought I was a bit of a psycho or at least a bit infatuated and he couldnt handle leaving his wife so he broke things off. Somewhere along the way he realized he was having a baby (and the whole way along the way he knew at least that they were trying!).
Anyways, I can see now from what others have said that this is just what you get when you mess with a MM. I know I have my blame in getting involved with this guy.
But what gets me now and makes me angry is that he wasn’t forthcoming about what was going on (about the baby), that he was still pursuing me while They were trying to get pregnant, that he acted like I was crazy when I got mad at him in dec and now he acts like he made the best choice and that I am just a pathetic loser who wanted to be with him. I feel like he’s pegged me as a psycho when really, he’s the one who was the total s—t here, no? Again, I know I shouldn’t have been in love with him, that I should have gotten out sooner, and that I shouldn’t expect anything from him since he’s married. I didn’t expect anything from him other than that he make a decision and then be kind about it. Instead he has chosen the face and ego preserving route of acting like it was in my head, like he’s a saint and a great guy, that I’m pathetic for wanting to be with him and will have a hard time moving on.
F— that! I am so ready to move on from this loser. I keep having moments where I feel like he is such a great guy and was so sweet and funny and we had so much fun together. Followed by think he’s disgusting and hating him. What kind of person does this?? Someone with a big ego, a big sense of entitlement, no concern for other peoples’ feelings, selfish, rude, immature and totally EU!! What an AC!!
Anyways, made it through the day without seeing him. I’m looking forward to some more time passing to heal from this . I wish I could take a trip somewhere (anywhere!). Ugh, I feel terrible.
Colly
on 06/01/2015 at 7:30 am
@Leanne,
I am sharing so many of your feelings right now, its a horrible roller coaster. I’m shattered today after waking up at 1.30am and then not being able to get back to sleep because I was ruminating over everything. I went back to work yesterday and was/am upset and angry that he didn’t get in touch, but then would have been upset and angry if he had to – I just can’t win at the moment! Anyway, I know if I’m lacking sleep I’m in for a tough day of it.
I doubt you or I will ever understand the baby thing or what happened along the way, or in fact who these men really were. I know with my ex MM that when he started seeing me he believed he was happy and in the best marriage ever – I knew that this was certainly a delusion in his case, but I do wonder if there are people out there who are just out and out players? I think we just have to try and make peace with ourselves and that if we can the significance of their actions we become less. These are the main points driving me crazy right now:
1. If wife is abusive as alleged then how come she is a better option than me? – not helpful thinking for me I know
2. How can you say you love someone and be trying for a baby with them and then put it about with someone else?
3. I’m struggling with having negative feelings towards him, anger, thinking he’s an AC – I seem to just beat myself up for getting this person wrong and exposing myself to all the bs that drove my self esteem into nothingness, and self blame is then feeding my poor self esteem and leaving me stuck. Somehow I believe I should be Teflon coated (I can hear my mother telling me “you don’t want to let them bother you and don’t ever show them they have”).
Horrible, horrible.
I know what you mean about the taking a trip feeling, I too get this overwhelming urge to run off and do something. I do know though that this feeling in me is me trying to run from my pain.
Good luck today, stay strong.
Ethelreda the Unready
on 06/01/2015 at 7:52 am
Oh Leanne. Take your time. This is going to take a while, probably – don’t beat yourself up for not bouncing back fast enough, like the original post says.
It’s hugely painful, this period, but it DOES pass, and you learn such valuable lessons. I had a work crush for years as well, but never let him know, and it blew over, and I just laugh at myself now.
This too will pass. Get some good distraction therapy for the crazies. Go see a movie or something, but DON’T DON’T DON’T break NC and DON’T DON’T DON’T contact his wife or family.
If you must say something, draft an email to your boss explaining about the affair, and explaining in confidence that this is why you will be avoiding Mr Married in future until things settle down.
Leanne
on 06/01/2015 at 3:56 pm
Thanks. Feeling slightly better this morning, but really up & down. I am so angry at him but also sad and embarrassed. I tried journalling this morning but it was a lot of anger. I hate that I still have to work here! Still looking for a new position.
I feel like he’s sitting in his office feeling sorry for me. What a loser! I am trying to quell my rage with a new slogan, “the best revenge is living a good life.” This is going to be my new mantra while I get over this.
Sorry if I sound immature. The whole thing just makes me so angry and upset. worse that he is smug and condescending about it. They have a great life, tons of money and now a baby on the way. He’s laughing at me thinking I’m sad trying to get over him? What an ass!
I’m going to try to dwell on this as little possible and then rebuild. A great life where I am glad that he’s not in if. Not to stick it to him, but for myself. I wish he could see me move on quickly and feel bad, but he won’t (because of NC and also cus he wouldn’t feel bad anyways). What an ass! Flush!!!
Day 20 of no contact (but for the text on Sunday). if that counts, then day 2.. Working hard on leaving this behind.
Leanne
on 06/01/2015 at 3:59 pm
Oh yeah, and for now, a new life that does not involve men!
Rosie
on 06/01/2015 at 5:27 pm
Leanne- Anger is good. It means you’re laying his bad behavior squarely on him where it belongs. The healing process will be shorter than it would be if you blamed yourself for everything. That poor wife and child, having him as a husband and father! My heart breaks for their child. You, dear, dodged a bullet. It’s painful but I’m glad you found out about the baby. It was your wake-up call. If a MM is willing to cheat on the woman he publically pledged his life to, how much worth does the OW have in his eyes? Yes, no more MMs! It’s heartbreak for ALL involved!
Rosie
on 07/01/2015 at 2:39 am
Leanne- My reply came out rather insensitively. I’m sorry. 🙁
doormat
on 06/01/2015 at 6:26 pm
I’m changing my name to matador.
xo
Veracity
on 06/01/2015 at 10:10 pm
I’m over here cracking up, doormat!! I almost spit out my beer!
Sanntay
on 06/01/2015 at 9:12 pm
My bounce back rate reached 85% and is now stagnant. I’m STILL dealing with my feelings about the ex f-buddy coworker nearly a year later. It has been two years since my last physical encounter with him (or anyone for that matter), and in the last year, he broke up with the ex for a second time, and began trying to ‘rekindle’ some semblance of a relationship with me. This entails stopping by my office like he used to when we first started working together (albeit not as often), complimenting my appearance, random hugs, and including me when someone is going out to pick up lunch. This a total 180 from his behavior toward me for nearly all of 2013 which consisted of him completely ignoring and avoiding me, basically acting as if I never existed. Some of you may remember the toll it took on my psyche and my self-esteem, and how difficult it was having to see his face at work each day.
So how does one come back from that? Can you really expect someone whom you treated so callously to welcome you back as a ‘friend’? I can’t imagine that he has any idea of the damage he has done, or maybe he does, and just doesn’t give a shit. I am grateful, however, that I was able to tell him how I felt about the whole situation, basically that I was really fucked up with the way things ended between us and that he could have had conversation with me, or said something to let me know he was getting back with his ex and that our fling was over – in an attempt to at least salvage the working relationship. Sounds easy enough, right? Instead he chose the cold, cowardly, fade out approach – knowing that he had to see me at work — every. damn. day. Who does that?
What bothers me now is the fact that I am still affected by things that he says and does, things that I hear from other coworkers about him nearly crashing his car while taking his current girlfriend home to meet his mom on Thanksgiving (he told me a different version of the story, sans girlfriend), taking salsa dancing lessons (again he left her out of the story), and him even intimating that he might be turning in his ‘player card’ often leave me with anxiety that I neither expect nor want to deal with. Why am I not over him, I ask? I’m certain it’s because I haven’t really moved on, haven’t dated anyone, and clearly the idea of ‘facing my attacker’ each day has hindered my ability to recover completely. Sad as it may sound, I still think about him, and I sometimes have romantic dreams about him, and while I can shake off the thoughts, I have no control over the dreams. When I was in the depths of my misery back in 2013, I remember reading something on Baggage Reclaim (I believe it was a post by Wiser) that said “Remember what he said, Remember what he did, and Remember who he is.” Those profound words have kept me grounded anytime my heart wants to try to convince my head that it’s OK to entertain thoughts of him in a positive light. It’s not OK. Still, as I said, I’m dealing with my feelings, which I’m hoarding because I don’t know how to release them.
Wiser
on 07/01/2015 at 12:09 am
Sanntay, I remember that posting and I’m very glad it was helpful to you at the time. This brings back memories of me having to sit in all day workshops and trainings led by the ex, and I sat there with a knife in my heart looking at him being smug and successful in his public persona as Mr. Wonderful, Mr. Professional, and I knew all the time what he was really like. I had to go to a lot of these excruciating trainings and meetings and I got through them by repeating to myself as I had to look at him, “Remember what he did, remember what he said and remember who he is.”
Happily the ex is long gone, retired in early 2013, gone from this town and I’ve haven’t seen him in person in over a year. Even so his name pops up among the staff now and then, and there’s still a twinge, even now. I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to see your ex every day at work with no end in sight. I’m truly sorry. Here’s a new mantra that might help: “He’s just some guy, he’s nobody special, he’s not important.” Maybe you can visualize containing him in a little corner of your heart and mind, a tiny little corner, where he still causes a twinge, well, ok, you can’t block him out of your consciousness completely, but you can contain him in a little box where he really can’t hurt you anymore. He’s just a little insignificant blip in a box. You’ll have a momentary twinge, accept it (don’t fight it!) then give a shrug, forget it and move on to other things. Focus on the 95% of your heart and mind that is now free of him!
But yikes, don’t let him hug you! No, no, no! Why does he get to do things that make you feel uncomfortable? You need to be a cordial and professional co-worker, but the ball is still in your court as to how much contact you want to let him have. You may have to spell it out, as I advised Leanne above. Something like “Look, under the circumstances, we cannot be friends and I would prefer that we maintain an entirely professional relationship. I want you to respect this. Thank you.” State what you want clearly! You can do this!! I think once you take a more pro-active approach, you’ll feel more empowered and this will allow you to finally release all of these feelings and see him as he truly is: someone from the past who is no longer important.
Ethelreda the Unready
on 07/01/2015 at 12:19 am
Oh Sanntay. I know how you feel. I have trouble moving on as well; I am something of a rigid thinker.
Natalie’s workbook ‘Get Out of Stuck’ might be a help to you; it was to me.
I’m not sure that dating is the answer, because you sound like you haven’t really gotten back in touch with yourself yet. I think you hit the nail on the head with the last sentence – it’s a question of finding a way to release these feelings.
Can you see a counsellor about this? A detached third party, in real life, can be a huge help, even just for a few sessions of letting-it-all-out, and then some practical coaching on moving on.
Gina
on 07/01/2015 at 1:00 am
Sanntay,
True words by Wiser (toward end of your last paragraph) re remembering as that prevents while forgetting continues the repetition i.e remembering prevents, forgetting repeats. Latter was something I learned via a forgiveness course I had undertaken last year and has stuck with me too. It definitely puts one back on track when the fantasising/imaginings creep back in.
Not sure why you seem to be listening still/giving the time of day to his life’s commentary as I am sure this is hindering your progress (hard enough having to see him daily at work). Nat has a very good article on how to be/treat the ex in the workplace (can’t remember the article so please do have a search around if you are wanting more information there).
And keep releasing your feelings here on BR (and finding some other avenues where you are able to talk openly and freely of your wound and hurt) as in time the intensity will lessen. Therapy and journelling worked for me so perhaps give either/both a try.
Veracity
on 06/01/2015 at 10:30 pm
happy b, I couldn’t respond to your post; we must have hit some sort of a limit on reply’s or something. I’m happy to continue the conversation here if you like.
happy b
on 07/01/2015 at 12:58 pm
No worries Veracity. I’ve learned a lot from our conversation!
Sanntay
on 07/01/2015 at 3:17 pm
Wiser, Ethelreda the Unready, and Gina: Thank you, thank you, thank you for your insights! I really needed the objective opinions of those who can relate, as I’ve burdened my sister and best friend long enough. I actually made a new year’s resolution to stop lamenting this issue (at least out loud), but it’s still eating away at me, so now I have taken to talking to myself (only when alone, of course) as well as venting here on BR.
Wiser, the new mantra you suggested will also be put into effect and all touching will cease. I realize that it is solely my own actions/non-actions stunting my healing, because I need to set some stringent boundaries. What is preventing me from doing so is a profound fear of returning to that “you are nothing and you don’t exist” stance, where he goes out of his way to avoid and ignore me. It was one of the most difficult and painful situations I’ve ever experienced and I really I don’t want to have to endure that treatment again. And the curiosity of coworkers with their questions about what happened, did we have a falling out, ‘why aren’t you guys talking anymore’, is like salt on the wound, so I’d rather circumvent that, if possible. I know that I can’t control everything and that I shouldn’t even care about him ignoring me, but because I am the only female on this team, and I get along great with every other staff member, I don’t want to bring any unnecessary drama/negativity to the workplace and make it suck for everyone else. As far as I know, no one here knows of our history and I would not trust anyone with such information — I cannot speak to whether he has told anyone of our fling, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he had. I will not let him chase me away from my job, but I also know that this is not a healthy environment either way you slice it.
Ethelreda, thanks for the lead on the Get Out of Stuck Guide. Natalie’s insights are always just what I need, so I’m sure it will prove useful. I met with a therapist several times during the height of the aftermath, and a few times last year, just to check in, as I had been doing so well with my recovery and the emotional breakdowns began to diminish. It helped me a lot, and I know just takes time, so, as it appears, I need lots of it.
Gina, I read the previous BR article on the workplace ex, and it was very insightful. I printed it so that I can refer to it until it sinks in completely. Remembering definitely Prevents, because when I have those mushy feelings about him I tell myself: ‘remember how he hurt you, remember how many nights you woke up at 3:00 am crying in pain, remember all those hurtful and insulting things he said to you, remember all the crying on the way to and from work,’ and that’s usually enough to snap me back to reality. There’s no way I’m forgetting all that. And ultimately, I need to just stop being a wuss, tell him to keep his hands to himself, and make a conscious effort to always be too busy to engage when he comes around, so that I don’t have to hear his lies of omission and perfunctory ‘commentary’.
ICantBelieveIFoundThis!
on 13/01/2015 at 9:15 pm
Leanne, Jedigirl, Colly,and most of all Natalie – how come when I read these posts, its as if I have *finally* found a place to rest my heavy heart, my racing mind and my broken self esteem? If only I had found it earlier!
All your stories ring true – I have hated myself, struggled with NC with a married AC who turned out to be having multiple affairs, lying about them until he no longer could and then rubbing my nose in it by actually phoning other women when I was still in bed with him, just moments after having sex. Repeatedly. Believe me, I can hardly believe it when I write it and I think I lied to myself as well as there were times when I think my self respect were so low I embarrassed myself. And I told so few people because of this.
Like so many people say though – after some good NC, a little text messages pops up wishing you a merry christmas, or happy new year and suddenly I wonder – what to do? I was even considering being ‘friends’….
we talk about NC, but the Teflon coated point is also important. Does one bother to say – listen pal, Im still hurt, you were an AC.
Or does one pretend to be cool, not to care etc? I tried the latter at first, almost convincing myself I didnt care, I was fine, and then ended up back in bed with the AC and then felt so trapped it took even longer to unravel myself.
what does one do – it it worth telling an AC one is sensitive/still hurt/disappointed at his behaviour?
or is it better to pretend to be over it and have moved on?
One last thing – I find I am too scared, afraid of him and what he might say and how I might feel, to say: get lost and leave me along, you AC! I tried before and I dont think I slept for days. He replied with something funny (ie ignored the crux of the message) and I felt relieved he did.
Niki
on 20/01/2015 at 12:09 am
Dear Natalie,
it’s been 3 months since my break up after a 2 years relationship. I was living with him and his family (I am a foreigner in his country) and I left him because he cheated me, he started a relationship with his insurance man sister, lying to both of us as well as his family. I returned home but stayed in touch with his sister, she took always my side as his parents as well and they helped me, even through break up I stayed at his sister’s house and even his mum told me I could go and live with them and she would throw him out. I will always feel gratitude for them or that is what I thought. I asked sister never to tell me anything about him,but some days ago she told me out of guilt that her family met the new girl, the one he cheated me with, actually both families left and they are engaged… 3 months after our break up. I feel angry, with anyone. I know he is their kid but accepting his wrongs, at the moment I feel like everyone is laughing behind my back. With sister we were really almost best friends, I love her very much but after the news I do want to cut contact with her and I did, without explanation. I feel guilty though because I know how good a person she is, and it is not her fault but it is really difficult for me and her words still hurt me, that the new girl and her family are soooo good. I don’t want to be ungrateful for their support but I was doing better and this news brought me back to the beginning.
Freedom Tastes of Reality
on 21/01/2015 at 1:06 am
I’ve read several comments in which the ladies have said things along the lines of, “He said his wife was abusive.” I’m reading an excellent book right now called, “Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft. This (and several other sources I have read) states that when a man accuses his wife (or former partner) of abuse and then mistreats you, it is very probable that HE was the one being abusive in the previous, or primary, relationship. It is a form of projection when they then turn around and accuse the partner or ex-partner of abuse. They are really describing their own behaviors. Not to say that men can’t be the victim of bad relationships, too, but this is a very, very common scenario. Speaking from experience, my last ex was an abuser and he always described his ex-wife as a controlling b**** who was abusive towards him. Keep your eyes open when men use this line, it may well be a manipulative ploy.
Ada
on 04/03/2015 at 5:48 pm
Very nicely written article. Sometimes it’s very hard to let go even when you know a relationship is bad for you.I’d recommend Beverly Aneta’s “When the Frog You Kissed isn’t a Prince”. Great motivator for letting go with your head held high!
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Nat, this was awesome! I would also add that ones current situation, options or lack thereof, support network or lack thereof, also has a profound effect upon how fast one can get over pain. This past year I have really resented folk that tell me to give up, accept alone for life or to settle for someone awash in red flags. I cringe when many here said that I shouldn’t grieve much for my dad, that his path was clear for a long time and he really didn’t approve of me much. Hello? He was still my dad, he was still the last of family. Yep, we had our differences, practically lived in different cultures, but he was trying to be the best parent he was able to be. At the time of his final illness and passing, I needed to be tge tough decision, take charge person as there was no one else. Its now, during the holidays, that Ive cried over his death even though he absokutely hated the hidays and never participated. Pondering the loss of my ex husband, runner dude, the at work AC, vs. Trauma dude really has made clear that when you had a strong emotional attachment, still deal with the person regularly, shared values that you’ve never been able to share since, it hurts for years vs. someone who raised red flags from the start and whom therefore you never attached to. In theory I should be grieving the loss of trauma dude as it was a few months ago, rather than the rest who were 1 to 10 years ago, but it’s been the exact opposite. Next year, I get to feel what I feel, speak my truth no matter what and if others judge harshly, that’s on them. Happy New Years.
‘Next year, I get to feel what I feel, speak my truth no matter what and if others judge harshly, that’s on them. Happy New Years.’
Awesome.
Noquay, please know that – with all your pain – you are a great inspiration. You are someone I would be honoured to meet.
Happy New Year to you x
Thanks, you really made my morning 🙂
Noquay,
You have such a lovely, open, tough, spirited heart. I just love to read your posts even though my time on BR has been spotty at best lately. I love reading your thoughts. Though my life experiences are sometimes different, I relate to a lot of what you write. I’m so glad that you don’t buy into the “old maid” propaganda. As Louise Hay says, when someone says something about their life and it’s negative, she says to herself internally, “That may be true for you, but it’s not true for me.” With your mindset, it looks like 2015 will be a banner year for you. Or at least a healing, more peaceful one than 2014. I wish you all the best, my dear.
Thanks Revs. Ironically, I met with my boss on New Years Eve and asked work wise, where are we headed? He assured me that my projects will go on regardless of whether I stay or go and either way, he wishes me well and understood how hard it is for someone like me to live here (he doesn’t know about the AC but knows something is very wrong at work). It was the first time anyone there really acknowledged my intellect, value, creativity, service to the institution. That was a valuable gift. A good way to begin the New Year. Hope you have a great year too.
Yo, ‘Quay!
Who in the fk said you shouldn’t grieve much for your dad?! Jesus on crutches…I’m sorry you had to listen to that.
Were you able to get anything done? I mean that lovingly (NOT judgingly 😉 ) because I didn’t do shit. Even with all this time off for the holidays I boycotted, after shipping the husband back to Japan permanently on the 26th, I’ve just been having a meltdown instead of working on the house and cleaning up the mess and getting prepared hit the ground running in 2015 as I’d planned.
Oh and you’re absolutely right about presence or absence of a support network affecting one’s ability to bounce back. That is what enabled me to get to the other side of this thing: friends and family helping tow me through it!
Wishing you a miraculous 2015 🙂
A number of folk said this sort of thing: colleagues, a local ex (expected as he didn’t give a damn when his own mom died), a supervisor. Guess some folk are emotionally dead. Was thinking about this over the holidays; the reason I am educated, not saddled with kids I didn’t want, am sober, clean, am relatively fit rather than obese like a lot of my family, am responsible, is because my dad, indirectly, showed me what NOT to be and I am damned grateful. Without his example, I would’ve descended into that same socioeconomic death spiral that sucked in all the rest of my family. Since the holidays were marked by extreme cold, snowstorms, being alone, and little excess cash, I hunkered down and got a lot done as I often do when freed from rigid schedules and routines. Painted walls, hung pictures, fixed the dog fence, hauled and cut firewood, wrote, read five books, helped an elderly colleague, took care of a woman who’d run off the road, helped disabled neighbors, worked on my floors. Yep, looking over the past years, I can really see how having folk actually be there for me woulda helped the healing process a lot. You read all this stuff about how to heal from hurt and everything says turn to family, to friends, community but there is nothing there to tell one what to do in the absence of these things or when one has been hurt and you cannot disclose who or why. I really learned a lot this year and it seems as though you did too; congrats on sending the dude back to where he came from. Sometimes one needs to just blow things off too, just sit on one’s behind for a while, regroup.
Yes had the same problem of most advice telling me to turn to family and friends – however I didn’t have that option at the time also – it was also part of the problem that got me there in the first place – its shocking how little is written for people experiencing this on their own and almost an added layer of unwritten shame as a result – that I also had to get over before moving on. You all sound like you are doing really well and is a joy to read.
Oona, this is really sad too because many folks are in that very situation. Yet, I cannot think of a single source of info that deals with it. In my immediate work circle, I can think of three women in the same boat. A neighbor killed herself over that very issue. Like you, the problems I had with men here are solely due to feeling isolated and very alone and had I been back home, would never have happened. People had your back a lot more. More communication, looking out for one another. On the rez, one has ceremony to acknowledge your hurt and free expression of grief is the norm. Although one isn’t supposed to avoid feelings by over work, that’s exactly what I do as accomplishing something is really my only constructive outlet. You’re right, Oona, there’s almost a sense of shaming going on, ironically often by the very folk that caused the hurt in the first place. Kinda reminiscent of abusive family dynamics.
I am so pleased for you Brenda K!!!!!!!Good luck in 2015!!!
Nat is right – allowing yourself to be right in feeling grief first – no matter how long its been or what the ‘rule’ is someone is telling you. No one walks in your shoes. Trauma has been the worst thing I have ever had to deal with in my life but allowing myself to feel it has definitely been the first step to healing from it – just sometimes I am telling it to someone who can’t deal with it or someone who is in denial or someone who simply doesn’t understand – which I have also been in my life in the past as well at times. Happy New Year everyone.
Great article. Thanks!
As usual, you are spot on!!
I just broke up with someone who was fast forwarding on all fronts including this one. The final straw for me was that he screamed at me in the wee hours of the morning as we were driving back from a club (when he knew that I do not tolerate raised voices – my view, right or wrong, is that at best it’s an attempt to bully and at worst a precursor to violence). He then expected me to be over it….immediately even though he would not promise that it wouldnt happen again. It gets better…the reframe on his inability to promise to behave decently was that he was a man of his word and didn’t want to make promises he couldn’t (or wouldn’t) keep! Lol This was not the first time he had tried to bully me or the first time I was expected to magically get over being disrespected and hurt. It was the second and it was two too many.
I know I’m not the only one grateful for your blog. My people pleasing ways are behind me and I’m finally starting to make better choices and walking away from the bad ones a lot sooner! Thank you! 🙂
I have lots to say about this latest post, but right now I’d like to simply thank Natalie Lue for every pearl of wisdom she has shared with us over the years, and wish her a prosperous, loving and joyous 2015.
Natalie, you and your readership have helped me so much. Thank you.
Your friend in Texas,
Karen
I am the cause of my boyfriend being upset with me. I acted jealous over a female co-worker/friend of his posting a comment at something he posted (not the first time Ive done it) The girl is 30 years younger and she has a very provocative profile picture – lots of cleavage (he is 50). He told me he has zero tolerance for jealousy and I had no right to act the way I did. That was on the 26th. He text’d me that he was very mad and wanted to take a break…I have not heard from him, no response to my efforts to talk sine then. What should I do? I apologized, should i just move on?
Lori, first, what you should do… when the other person says they’re not interested (for whatever reason), the classy thing to do is to move on. Stop contacting him, respect his decision.
Second, think about what happened. Your part in it, his part in it. So you can learn going forward. Only you know how ‘irrational’ your jealousy was, how dismissive his response was [e.g. if you have done this before, perhaps he’s lost patience and he’s not really being a jerk, just this is the natural end game of a relationship where people cannot trust each other].
To me the key questions are; how stable/mature is this guy and how did he respond to this and other things; how ‘rational’ is your jealousy which depends on what comment the coworker made or whatever else makes you jealous; how mature was the conversation you started with him about it.
So, you might want to think of your jealousy issues. Where do they come from, and what parts of them are under your control, what parts are not, what needs to be addressed with other people vs. something for you to deal with by yourself. E.g. you see an ambiguous text message [lets assume you aren’t snooping but see it anyway sometimes its on the phone screen] and if you are in a real relationship its okay to ask – you are not accusing, you are not persuading or controlling. You are asking for information. ‘Hey, I thought we are exclusive, who is this person sending this overly intimate text’. If you find yourself jealous if anyone sends him ANY kind of text, thats on you – he’s not responsible for that feeling, an everyday text doesnt break the terms of your relationship.
You have a situation were a woman posted on his FB, and all thats wrong with her is cleavage in her profile pic? I assume the comment wasn’t too risqué or inappropriate and even if it was, its okay for you to tell your feelings without holding the other person responsible for it. You can say ‘these comments seem inappropriate’ and wait for what he says and what he says is part of your discovery phase [a 50 year old man should know how to deal with an inappropriate comment from a coworker] – but you can’t say that to him unless they were inappropriate FB comments. So you need to come down to reality; maybe you are insecure in the relationship and it makes you jealous. So work on that.
As we’ve talked about here before, somehow the most anxious type of people (like you, like me) end up with the most ambiguous guys. Its like instead of looking for someone stable that will make us feel calm, we seem to go for those that ratchet up the anxiety because anxiety is our home. And if they are stable? [assuming maybe your guy is, because if he isn’t then cleavage-friend is hardly the biggest problem you have] – if they are stable we might try to create drama to drive them away. Think about what really happened here.
” the classy thing to do is move on”
Thanks….I read this sentence more than once hopin it sinks in…..
Lori,
Your boyfriend sounds suspect! Because if something like you getting jealous would cause him to want to take a break, I suspect he was just waiting for the right reasons to go n/c. I’m not sure if he has giving you a reason to be jealous, but he can’t tell you you don’t have a right to feel anything. Maybe he doesn’t like your reaction, but it is yours to have. He sounds childish! If you apologized and he still acting silly then just leave it alone.
Lori,
What did she post?
Lori, I know it is hard to move on, but today start of new year and new life. How exciting it is, can you imagine, what can you do and who you can meet;) Leave all your worries in the past, he is not worth it. Your BF knew that you have jealousy issues, why provoking you?! I left all losers behind, can’t wait for new adventures! Happy New Year Natalie and all my virtual friends from BR!!!
Thank you, Natalie. Being in midlife (Crazy Hormone Central) is another factor that can affect your resilience. It really does bring you face to face with unfinished emotional business.
I grieve these days sometimes over things that I thought I had gotten over, and also things that other people would simply laugh at, and tell me to move on. A good example is the disaster of my first teenage romance at 17, when I fell for a handsome schoolboy of the same age with a really fucked-up family and a LOT of problems with females.
It crashed and burned, and then I fell for him again at 18, and it crashed and burned even worse: about 18 months of being strung along and used – not sexually, but emotionally.
It has puzzled me for years why I kept coming back to this lengthy episode and feeling such pain over it, until I realised that it was THIS epiose that imprinted very firmly on me that I was utterly unloveable to men outside my family as well as inside it. It taught me that I had to ‘earn’ male love, and ‘work’ for it, and morph into what they wanted, and that even then I would probably fail and be rejected. I was at exactly the age to take this lesson on board and really absorb it, and it did me genuine damage.
I have to work on forgiveness here, because he really had no idea how much damage he was doing, and since then his life has not been exactly a whirling good time. It led to two years of withdrawn, eccentric behaviour on my part, because I just gave up. Gradually I began to emerge from my shell – but at the end of that emerging, I met the man who I almost married, with disastrous results as well! I well and truly associated pain with love.
I know I’m not in a place where I can date yet, or even ever again, because I find it so hard to trust, and I was really burned by the EUM as well. I am concentrating instead on finding those shared values, rapport and closeness and love with the people I live with and work with, and my friends.
It has been a great year for me. I really feel like I’ve gotten my mojo back in so many areas, after FIVE unimaginable YEARS of on-and-off awful EUM experience. He finally cleared off in late 2013, and I have barely given him a thought since, but just this morning I cleaned out my contacts book in my phone, and found his number still there, and deleted it without even a twinge. I didn’t even know I still had it!
Hello NML, it has been great reading your posts these past months. It feels like there’s a friend somewhere out there. It’s great, You’re great! I find myself Happy reading you!
Happy new year etc., V.
Hey everyone I haven’t read the post yet but, I want to say thks to Nat because this site has really helped me. I am rid off the bs from loving a man who never would love me. I’m working on myself and for once in my life I can say I am happy.
I hope you’re really and truly well rid for good! Best wishes in 2015
First time posting here:)
As many articles have been bang on since I’ve been readying the blog, this one really hits home for me. I’ve always been plagued by being able to feel very deeply about things. In most cases it’s passion, but when it comes to feelings for women, that I actually really like, it takes me FOREVER to get over them. It drives me crazy how long it takes, and also really surprises me to a certain degree.
Its been almost a year now, that I’m still thinking/feeling about a girl I dated for just a few months this time last year. I’d been deeply hurt on a few occasions over the years, and really thought I had learned enough to prevent myself from being hurt like I was again.
We broke up very suddenly after a really great weekend together, and although it was totally necessary and the right thing to do for a variety of reasons, she was the first girl in my life I could see and wanted a future with. She had told me early on she felt the same.
She didn’t do anything wrong, or was a bad person, or treated me poorly or anything like that. She was really amazing. A good, kind, wonderful woman, I really wanted her to be the one for me. It’s been incredibly hard to let her go over the course of this past year, and I’m still kind of in shock that she is STILL in me. I still miss her very much.
That being said, I know the worst is over and I haven’t seen her since August which is certainly helping with the process, but dam, the process takes time, whether I like it or not.
I actually was referred to this site shortly after we broke up in February, and have been reading off and on since. Thank you to everyone for their openness and sharing:) It’s helped!
Luckily
Michael- Hello from a fellow passionate soul! 🙂
Nat,
This is a beautiful post and comes in perfect timing. It’s crazy. I learned this the hard way with the grief experience including my ex. The more I tried to force myself to be okay and forgive, the longer drawn out the grief process was. The reality is that it was a major traumatic loss for me that reopened old wounds. Each bit of contact and rejection reopened the wound from the traumatic loss. I finally got to a point where I loved myself too much to let him have one bit of access to my heart. I’ve grown throughout the whole process, but my growth had compounded after slamming that door shut for good. Oh, and even better, I now deal with grief every day as a Hospice nurse. I see the sadness and beauty in taking the time to grieve and grow. It’s amazing how God makes all work together for good. Thank you again for this post. It was much needed today.
I must say, Natalie, that your posts always pop up in my inbox at the right time. Honestly, I’m getting tired of people telling me stuff along the lines of: “You should’ve forgotten all about him already, it’s been over a year!”. Talk about pressure. The truth is, even though I’m feeling a lot better, on the 25th I got a very unexpected text from my very emotionally unavailable ex who dumped me over a year ago and went abroad for about ten months, telling me Merry Christmas, *insert my name here*. I said something similar to him and when he tried to start a conversation, I ignored him and proceeded to delete the whole conversation. After the incident, I found one of your articles (“It’s just a text”) and I felt proud of myself for doing exactly what you suggested. However, the whole thing brought back a lot of feelings I thought were past gone, and left me wondering WHY, WHY on earth he contacted me again. It was a feeble (and lazy) attempt to reconnect, I know. It shows what kind of a person he is.
The real problem here is that it makes me believe I really am not over him yet, I’m probably gonna come across him more than once next year, I’m a bit scared.
What advice/opinion can you give me? I’m trying not to put too much pressure on myself, especially since big changes are coming to my life in the next few months (new job & living on my own).
I really, really want to thank you for sharing your experiences on this amazing blog of yours. You are the best.
Happy New Year! 🙂
Jedigirl, I too will see the EUM for the next few months, hopefully no more after that. I would stay polite, be ready for awkward – I think awkward is good, why should he just get to waltz around and have you be all ‘cool girl’ around him and friendly and letting him think nothing happened? As long as you know you won’t give in [you didn’t respond to continuing texts so you’ll probably be just fine], its okay if its awkward or sad or whatever. There might be bad feelings, theres no timetable to move on, feelings are not facts and its pointless to control them. Just dont get back together with him, dont be ‘friends’, and be kind to yourself for your lapses in feeling. What more can we do?
Thank you for your support. 🙂 I feel he’s acting as if nothing ever happened between us. Like I was just a fling and it’s perfectly acceptable to come back into my life whenever he pleases, the jerk. I can’t allow that. My self esteem is not as low as it was a year ago. And yes, I’ll do everything I can not to give in but I’ll be the opposite of what he was to me when he dumped me: I’ll be polite.
The relationship damaged me a lot, I don’t want ever to go through it again. I’ve learned my lesson: No more emotionally unavailable men in my life!
We certainly deserve better, girls. I hope 2015 bring happiness to all of you.
Happy New Year wherever you are, Suki!
Jedigirl, don’t give yourself a hard time because his text triggered some old feelings! It’s human and like Natalie says, we are not Teflon coated. I think your reaction to his text was perfect and it shows that you are on the right way. Yes, it still may hurt from time to time, and yes, it might get you to think about the should’ve could’ve would’ves occasionally but I can see that you are not bullshitting yourself about his actions or his motives.
I would stay polite, when you run across him, but nothing more. Keep your answers very short, don’t seek or engage in further conversation, just like you have done with his text. At some point he will get it. And if he doesn’t stop being polite and just ignore him! It sound like he has behaved like an AC so you would have all the right in the world NOT to be polite.
I was glad to read your comment, btw, because I am in a similar situation and it put my head right. The very EUM with whom I had a casual relationship almost 1 year and 8 months ago sent me a text before Christmas. It was a nice text but it just screamed “I am currently bored / single / nostalgic and just testing the waters”. I have a friend who calls these texts ” end of the year sign-in” meaning someone wants to keep his options open for next year. I still was so shocked to hear from him that it took me a day to know what to reply and I replied in a friendly but neutral way. I had also thought about ignoring it, but (probably similar to you) I didn’t want to be rude, and it was a nice text, after all. Also we run into each other from time to time due to work, so I don’t want it to be uncomfortable. To my neutral text there was no further reply – which just proves the point that he wanted to test the waters, and when he didn’t get the eager answer /ego stroke he expected that was that.
But of course after his text my thoughts had started going on and on about if and how I should reply, his motives for contacting me etc. And even though my brain knew it was totally irrational I was speculating, if he wanted another go at whatever we had, or even – Mega Illusion Alert – had realized he really likes me. The crazy thing is, on a rational level I am indeed over him, i don’t want to be with someone with the character traits he displayed. And I don’t want to be treated casually. It’s just this “betting in potential” but which I am not through with yet. This thinkin “if I had done x,y,z differently, maybe he would have been a,b,c”. Crazy!! But I guess being aware of ones mental diciencies is a good first step. 😉
That’s why I am so glad about your comment to Nat’s post! 🙂 I promptly read the “it’s just a text” post and put my feet firmly back in reality.
Happy new year!
OMG, it could’ve been me writing your post, LOL! We’re in very similar situations. I also think my ex was testing the waters. However, I was testing the waters, too. One of the main reasons I replied was to see if he would want to start a conversation, which he did. So I took my chance and ignored him, like he used to do to me very frequently when we were together. I wanted to show him that I’m not the same person I was a year ago. And I thought to myself: I clearly don’t mean much to him if he’s talking to me this casually after everything that happened, and is making such a little effort to contact me again. I bet he thought that since I was crazy about him, I’d go crawling to his feet. So even though his text upset me, I also felt some sort of satisfaction. He was the one who came back and not me.
I’m also gonna come across my ex at some point. We go to the same university and we even might be neighbors from this year on. I wish I could pretend he doesn’t exist, like he used to do after he dumped me. But I’m not like him. That hurt like hell BTW.
I sometimes wonder why we get so emotionally involved with guys who give us mere bread crumbs. My ex was a complete commitment phobe. Whenever I pushed to hard, he would get angry at me and give me the silent treatment for days. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. I was so on edge while I was with him that it affected my health. And yet, I was so blinded and infatuated that I couldn’t see our relationship was going nowhere. I’m guessing this must be a common pattern among many of us reading this blog.
All the best! Have a wonderful new year! 🙂
It’s alarming to me that the more I put your advice into practise the less guys I have in my life. That says something about me that I’d like to correct. Thank you for your penetrating insights & blogs.
Gayl,
I have been thinking something similar…not just men though, people in general. Unfortunately I have attracted not just men that will use and exploit me, but women as well. I’m losing them left and right…setting boundaries and letting the chips fall where they fall. I’ve slowly backed away from some of them thta I see socially as I’ve learned that often people get mean when they figure our you’re on to them!
I made a really important emotional connection today with my beliefs and why I believe that that is my purpose in life ..to be a doormat. I was treated as a possession as a child, a non-entity – someone to be used and abused (exploited and betrayed). I was taught that I was not worthy of consideration and that I was not suppose to have needs and wants. My role was to take care of everyone else. This belief is reflected in the people I have attracted in the past. (I’m being an optimist here! Working on changing those beliefs and changing who I attract based on the updated beliefs.) I realize this will take time and practice.
Very painful realization that my parents treated me like a possession – a thing; it’s funny but I knew this intilectually before but hadn’t been able to feel it emotionally. I recently had an interaction with a guy a turned down for a date a couple of months ago that allowed me to make a connection to the past…when I saw this guy again at a social gathering he ignored me…we were at a table with 2 other people and he acted like I was not there (a non-entity). It was emotional abuse and a power play. The effect on me taught me a lot…it helped me connect to the past and when I felt that way before.
The guys a jerk, but I’m grateful it happened. It was a gift. I’m looking at everyone in my life as a mirror reflecting my beliefs back to me. When my life is full of loving, kind, respectful and supportive people, I’ll know I have successfuly updated my beliefs to include that I am worthy of unconditional love as well as being treated with kindness, dignity and respect.
We are all worthy of being treated with love, kindness, deignity and respect.
Happy New Year!
Thank you, Nat!
Are they fewer, but higher-quality men? That’s the important thing.
Thanks for this topic. It’s been almost 5 months (dear Lord) and I’m just finally getting over being angry with myself because I couldn’t get validation from anyone. I’ve accepted that others won’t be able to relate to the CPTSD reactions I’ve had to yet another relationship chalk full of narcissistic abuse. It’s in some ways been the most painful part. Don’t even miss the AC anymore (now that I have sorted out the fantasy from the pathetic, disappointing reality… Since it was my second Narc/Socio or whatev I just didn’t anticipate it ever being “possible” for it to happen again). Anyway, it did, “right under my nose,” and the humiliation was so strong. I lost my mind and likely seemed like a fascinating car wreck for mutual friends with the best intentions to watch. My bouncing back has been largely a process of loving myself by being able to not care what anyone thinks and also not hold contempt for all those people who can’t possibly understand… With all their well intentioned but frankly offensive advice. However, the communities you find ACs and even just EUMs in typically have boundary busters of all kinds and styles. I’ve had to get distance and pursue snowboarding as a solo venture to feel like I have a way to bounce back in any meaningful fashion. I needed something to give me meaning now that I have no community that makes me feel good. I had other communities before, but my two best friends moved almost immediately as the AC sabotaged everything. I blame myself for the breakup, but I remember in tears asking him “so are we breaking up?” This question I asked almost rhetorically; while he said he didn’t want things to end, he had put me in a position where I simply couldn’t keep my self esteem in tow. I still resent him for his shitty behavior at the end. I’ve dealt with other EUM in much more graceful ways, but ACs make it harder to do that I guess. I know I’m responsible and accountable, but just saying, if the end was with a “SURPRISE ASSCLOWN,” bouncing back is much harder. Particularly when your surprise AC is unbeknownst to everyone else. It’s been hell! Haha… Gosh.
I hate being bullied., and try not to tolerate it. Definitely have never kept a relationship with one. My last two heart break-up both took me about 5 years each to recover. Now I don’t even hope for a love relationship. I do date lately, and screen them like a good HR agent. If they aren’t qualified they don’t get my relationship. I screen them out immediately at yellow and red flags. Just way too many cheating lose men & seriously, I’m happy with my self, and the world and life that I am living without all the bad relationships.
Thank you for this lovely article Nat and for all your posts. I appreciate the space and acceptance that your create with these words. I am working on getting over a tough situation that has recently had me feeling pretty badly. With self-work, the comments of others on the site and a great group of supportive friends, I am hopeful that I will bounce back soon. I actually said this to the MM that I was involved with when I attempted to break things off the first time. That I needed to stop not just seeing him, but also talking to him so that I could bounce back and live as the happy person I know I am. And I just can’t do that with him and his situation in my life. I think this made him upset because he thought we could just fool around and then be friends. Or maybe he couldn’t stand the idea of me being happy without him. I don’t know. His thoughts are a mystery to me. But I am working on bouncing back and can see that NC is a big big part of that. I will still be looking for a new job in the new year and I am planning to just stay NC when I’m back at the office. If he continues to stop by, then I’ll email him to politely ask that he stay away. It is so, so hard to put up that boundary here, but it is crucial to being able to bounce back and have a happy life again. Thank you for your advice everyone recently and thanks Nat for this post. Happy New Year!!
I would advise just be busy everytime he drops by , he will get the message. Sending an email outlining your intentions and reasons in detail = none of these guys we pine over really deserve these long soul revealing written notes.
Right on point!!! Thank you!!!
Thank you so much Nat for this post – you really have become my Guru.
I have been struggling so hard with going NC with OM – after his tepid offer to stay friends on and off during the past 6 months. I want to give my marriage the whole heartedness it deserves and see if it can become better than it has in the past 11 years – I owe it to my son to try.My conscience has been clear these past few weeks. I think I was secretly hoping at one point last year that OM would want a future with me , not just a casual friendship – I never thought it would be this hard to mourn the demise of a hope that never should have been.
I am you, right down to the 11 years of marriage. I don’t have any words of wisdom yet, just commiseration.
Amazing post. As ever. All Christmas I have essentially been rejecting myself by seeking validation&attention from the most EUM there ever was. He press the reset button on me a few wks ago then disappeared leaving me reeling. If I didn’t have these posts&the NCR to draw upon now as we enter the new year, I wouldn’t know what was going on. But I do.they give me hope.
Thank you Natalie and all the best for 2015:) x
This is great to read, first thing in the morning after a brief mediation (all part of my new self care routine!) and it’s timing is perfect. I expect a lot of people are feeling the anxiety of the New Year coming up and little thoughts like this, reminding us to take our time and do what’s right for us rather than rush through things, are so important.x x
Thanks so much for this article! I’ve been using this website as my recovery bible. (other fave article being: Coping with feeling rejected by Mr Unavailables & Assclowns Part Two)
My boyf and I split in July but I started NC as of Oct after I found out he was quickly moving on with other girls, and I found I couldn’t handle that and maintaining a “friendship.”
He’s a classic Mr. Unavailable, he didn’t cheat but he was keeping things from me, such as meeting his ex for a drink, but then flying off the handle when I had a problem with it, he didn’t need my permission apparently.
As my friends and family didn’t like him as a result of his behavior, they really struggle with why I’m not over it. I actually became depressed, am in therapy and take antidepressants and am on the road to recovery, and this website with articles like this are such a big help that I can’t even describe my gratitude! I may not be where other people think I should be, they think I’m dwelling, wallowing, but I’m definitely stronger than I was before, it’ll take time and I’ll get there when I get there!! xx
Thank you Natalie, spot on.
After dreading xmas, I enjoyed the company of friends and had a truthful and productive conversation with a once-close family member I’d distanced myself from for the past few years, way more than I thought possible. No drama, but what is hopefully the start of a healing process.
My main lesson for the year was that in any relationship where I feel the other person doesn’t care/support me enough, or where I feel harmed (a recurring theme in my life), I have to be prepared to walk away. In fact, ‘be prepared to walk away’ has become my motto in situations where I feel powerless and too dependent on a particular outcome. This way of thinking translates into actions and it’s what eventually produced the near-apology I got over xmas – no amount of talking could do this, as failed attempts over the years showed.
I used to think it was always better to be determined and fight for things, but not if I’m trying to control the uncontrollable, then it becomes a waste of energy and I compromise myself. It also has to be genuine – if my distancing was a game where I was trying to get a particular result, it would be a very hard few years, I have to do it for myself like NC.
I hope that doesn’t sound harsh, there’s work to be done but it gives me optimism for the new year. I won’t over-invest in guys as though they’re the last-chance saloon, as I did in 2014, and I won’t cling on to relationships that do me no good. That feeling of powerlessness and need is a signal to branch out and make my life more full.
On that note, I wish Natalie and all commenters on this amazing, life-changing site a very happy 2015 and will repeat what Nat once said, ‘the only limits are those we put on ourselves’.
‘Be prepared to walk away’ …thanks, I’m writing this down.
Yes, I’m writing it down too.
Be prepared to walk away as opposed to worrying that they will if we don’t toe the line.
True, Veracity. If we’re anxious about losing someone, we try too hard to please them or toe their line, and it’s little wonder we end up feeling like they don’t appreciate us. In healthy relationships, either person walking away is not on the radar. Challenges to each other and disagreements are normal and show that we’re properly engaging in each other’s lives and feelings rather than trying to cling onto a position or gain a better one. Just as we learn and improve by reflecting and compassionately challenging ourselves, we do this for friends and family too.
This relative I’m (hopefully) reconciling with has struggled when I’ve disagreed with him in recent years, he just wasn’t used to it and seemed to think we should have a unified position on other family members, the world, etc., and that I was somehow trying to be ‘superior’ by just standing my ground. I said many times that I found his position just as valid and wasn’t judging him for it or trying to influence him, was just doing things my own way. I’m not sure I can convince him of this as I’ve said it many times, but crucially, that’s not my problem. Conflict is much better than dishonesty and insecurity.
I’m in a similar place.
I wish I had known this back then. I know now thanks to all of you.
Great post Natalie! So insightful. Grieving takes time and I hate it when people say: “Just forget it about it already”. Gee, as if their discomfort is more important than our grief.
And looking back, it’s when I completely let myself feel the feelings of pain, grief, and let it all out, that that’s when I got over a situation much quicker. It’s when I allowed myself to grieve and give myself permission to be sad, cry and feel the feeling all the way through, that I finally got over it. Great post!
@rags mom.. I am sorry I haven’t had the headspace to give more thoughtful repond to your posts the last couple days. Your comments have been very, very helpful to me. It sounds like you are taking the right approach to your situation (well the healthiest right now anyways). And who knows what the future holds. Where are you at ok you NC journey with OM? How has husband been the last few weeks? I can feel that I am still in grief. felt like text MM yesterday as I always do after he shows crumbs.. I know he likes me, but that doesn’t change the situation, what he wants and how he treated me. So I pressing on NC.
I appreciated your comment and about dating someone new. I think thatbis the only thing that will really help here (besides eventually getting a new job and going NC for real). I am still workin on the relationship I split up because of this situation. As per my advice to you, my ex would like me to give it some time to see if we can work things out and so I am. I don’t want to throw everything away even if it’s not perfect, so I’ve decided to give it some months here (3?). To see if we can put things back together and its worth salvaging. This situation really did a number on my life as well!!
Hope you are staying strong and finding time for some good times wih your son :). Grief can be so tough (if that’s where you’re at with OM). Hope you have a great New Years and talk soon xo Leanne
Hey, going NC was quite recent , but it was partial NC after leaving the old job (July) ..
I dont want to break NC ….taking time to grieve and move on is one thing, but breaking NC would be absolutely shameful at this point ….for a while , I thought I wuld take up on his offer to ‘just stay in touch’ ‘give each other advice’ ‘check in on each other’….I guess Im not as cool as him , cudnt do that.
wow, ur really thinking abt getting back with ur ex, or just seeing each other and considering it ? Meeting new guys also is a good idea as going on dates, talking to new ppl, will take ur mind off MM for the crucial next few months, however, the flipside is bad dates /u not being attracted to the new ppl might have the counterproductive effect of weakening towards MMs advances …but take it from someone who has broken NC many many times and then went back to it, dont break NC …others on here have told u not to ever consider him as he is AC …I would say at the very least dont consider him at all while he is still MM (harder said than done I know !!, stay strong dear, u are worth it !!!)
Leanne- You broke up with the man you were living with as your feelings were growing for MM and now you’re semi – jumping back with previous guy while thinking of dating others to help get over MM…how about taking a break from men altogether until you have your own internal act together before you break somebody’s heart? Otherwise you’re jumping into yet another fire after just jumping into the fire from the frying pan. Just as we women aren’t blowup dolls, men aren’t emotional dolls for us to play with.
Be careful out there, huh?
(That came out harsher than I intended, sorry)
Leanne – I have to jump in too and agree with Rosie. You need a time out. There are underlying reasons why you left your relationship for a MM. You need to work on you and should take a break from dating. Jumping from one person to another solves nothing except avoiding your issues.
Leanne, You might want to read Natalie’s fall back girl book but putting yourself in the perspective of both the Mr Unavailable and the fall back girl. You are the MMs fall back girl perhaps, but your ex is your fall back boy. It is unfair to him.
All those posts on this blog ‘why does s/he call me if s/he’s not interested in me’ [thats your ex asking], or ‘why is s/he wanting to try when s/he left me for someone else the first time around [thats him asking the question again].
I’m going on 3 possibly 4 (I forget) years of “grieving” my ex-EUM, whom I was on/off with for almost 6 years. I don’t even know what it’s about at this point. It makes no sense. I spent 10 years with a lovely man and it took me less time to get over him. I think I read once that Nat said the more infused your romance is with fantasy, the longer it takes to get over the person, and I believe that is the case here. I’m not getting over HIM per se, but the idea of him, and the fantasy of him that sprouted in my brain’s wiring at some point when I was very young. He must represent a lot of different issues for me. I don’t even take it very seriously anymore but there are many days when I’m just exhausted with myself and wish I could wipe him completely out of my memory like the characters did in “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.” I mean, I could have stayed with him, I’m the one who broke it off. I’m no longer raw, furious, and devastated, but why must I think of this idiotic man every day and yet again go over who did what and who said what? It’s like my brain has some kind of neural muscular disease and just goes off on its own tangents. Even my therapist was like “You really need to move on.” Crazy.
Yeah, i guess its true we get hooked onto the drama of stressful situations ….
And yeah , fantasies woven around the man is much harder to get over than the actual guy himelf….
try some big new goals for 2015, stuff youve never done before , some new career goals , exciting travel …meeting some new ppl ?
Dear Diane,
I can sympathize! It’s been almost two years for me, and I still think about my ex every day, on some days almost constantly, even though we haven’t had any contact in a year and a half. It’s so hard, frustrating, and confusing.
I think you’re onto something when you say you don’t really miss HIM, per se, and I think – I hope, for my own sake – that that’s also the key to eventually healing. I hardly remember what being with my ex was like, and I’m rationally aware that towards the end it was awful and there were some fundamental issues that made us a very bad match. But he has become a symbol for all the scars I got over the course of our relationship and our break-up: feelings of humiliation, being pathetic, being wronged, being abandoned, feeling worthless, feeling undesirable. Basically, him treating me badly, then dumping me, then continuing to treat me badly whenever he was forced to face me, shook my view of the world and my sense of identity. Prior to that, I felt loved and desirable, I felt that my good actions were rewarded while bad people got their come-uppance. The break-up shook all this.
But the crucial thing here is that these are all feelings inside ME. Fine, he was an asshole and I let him, but he’s no longer in my life daily saying, “You’re worthless! I’m so much better than you are!” It’s all me. As much as him leaving me hurt, it also meant finally being rid of this toxic relationship. Yet I’m still beating myself up, clinging to the toxins.
I wish I knew the magic cure to this. As said, I am still in a lot of pain. But I think one thing we both need to do is to focus on ourselves. It’s good to grieve and go through all the emotions, but it seems the both of us are confused about what is really upsetting us. In your case, it’s an ideal idea of your ex and your life together; for me, it’s feelings of pain. It’s not surprising we feel sad for years when what we’re really grieving for are things like “losing your ideal soulmate” or “losing your sense of self-worth”. These are big issues! Way bigger than our exes ever were. I think we need to tackle the *real* issues and learn to, as tacky as it sounds, love ourselves rather than letting our brains keep derailing us. I know I personally need to learn to focus more on my life and making it as fulfilling as I can – spending time with friends, listening to Coursera lectures and learning new things, maybe going on a few casual (casual!) dates to remind myself that I am attractive, and so on. It’s hard, and I keep slipping, but I’m trying.
Good luck!
btw, can anyone point to a blog of Nat’s that might explain why EUMs keep getting in touch with you despite not wanting a relationship or even sex or anything? I’m once again attempting to go NC with my ex-EUM and he keeps emailing me every few days or so … just little links to stories … but STILL. So annoying. Can’t he see I’m ignoring him? And no for some reason I can’t block him. I have tried over and over, I click on “Block” and the next thing I know I’ve got an email. And I can’t abandon that account. Luckily he does not call or text or anything else. But I am curious WHY they do it? Sending out feelers??
Hey Diane, here’s the link:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/when-you-wonder-why-they-stay-with-you-or-keep-coming-back-when-they-dont-want-the-relationship-you-want/
Cheers, V.
Diane, is it the 6-year EUM who’s sending you the banal messages? If so, it’s no wonder you can’t move on.
I had an EUM in and out of my life for many years until I was his live-in fall-back girl. I would say I’m over him now, but I had to quit FB and cut contact with his friends too, or I would have just been torturing myself and wouldn’t have moved on. I gave indifferent responses to his lame ‘feeler’ messages so they fizzled out pretty quick. Have you directly asked this EUM not to contact you? Ask him formally and clearly next time.
I think our brain does wire itself a certain way so thoughts become habit, and we have to forcibly rewire it sometimes. But the persistence of these thoughts also means you have issues to work through. So sometimes the answer is to make yourself think of something else – go for a jog, contact a friend, make soup, see a film – and other times the answer is to get a pen and paper and tackle it head on. It’s our call to know whether it’s an obsessive, repetitive thought that’s going nowhere or something that can be worked on. Be kind and patient with yourself, expect lapses and triggers, but you do need to progress, and will.
Like Rag’s mom says, finding new goals, people and interests is key. It’s such common advice but essential. If you’re not thinking of and focusing on him, you need something else to think about. There’s only so much we can reflect on ourselves and the best insights come when we’re doing other things.
Happy b, yes, we emailed on and off since I broke up with him. Mostly out of boredom, I think, and habit. I had zero intention of getting back with him. But I’ve ignored him for two weeks now. I’ve said too many times in the past that I would never respond to him again, and then I did, so I don’t want to say anything here that will jinx it, but I’m fairly certain that’s it for me. He’s not even amusing anymore.
Miss Natalie,
Thoughtful post. Very thorough discussion about the different things that keep us from bouncing back. Personally, I used to get really embarrassed about how long it took me to bounce back from a relationship–whether pseudo or real. I mean, my God, during my recovery time (which lasted months) I spent about 4 or 5 nights a week at my gym, working out and then crying hard for about 20 minutes in the steam room after (provided I was alone in there!). All this over guys that would jerk me around, guys who were the “phantom boyfriend” who I wasn’t even sure I could lay that designation on. One guy it took me 3 years to get over and we only pseudo-dated about 9 months. It got to the point where I wouldn’t talk to any of my friends about it after a while, because I felt like such a chump, crying over spilled, now curdled, milk. I wish I would’ve had this article then. And what you said about not envying those friends who just dust themselves off and jump into a new relationship….spot on. This knowledge also comes, I think, with age. You tend to see things catch up with people–whether yourself or others. Anyway, thoughtful post, my dear.
Diane – an ex staying in contact when you don’t want it is exercising control over you and showing complete disrespect. If you engage with him he can say that he wasn’t that bad- it is a way of rationalising his behaviour. Natalie has written a lot about this. And you are right – it’s not about wanting you. Assign him to trash and dump it although it would be better to block it. Have you talked to your provider?
This post is a wonderful gift to me. Because I was married so long I have had a lot of things to understand about how/why I stayed in the marriage, understanding how destructive it was and the dysfunctional things I did like placating him because he actually set the emotional rules which was don’t say anything if it isn’t nice. I have had trouble on the days I feel stuck or when I get a business email from him and feel upset. It is hard at those times to see the progress I have made. It is annoying because I know I need to feel stuff and make sense of it. But I can see that I have moved forward in so many ways. I look back on how it was a year ago and I am a lot more aware. It helps to be in a new city and doing new things. It also helps to remember that if I feel lonely at times, I was very lonely in the marriage plus I was living a fradulent life. To add to this, I think the length of the relationship can be a factor and the need to deal with oter things too- I lost many of my touchstones- my city that I loved and even my old business. Want to show more self compassion. I also want to accept that right now I am staking out my own life and feel pretty reactive to men in general or at least the men in my life.
Going through all this, as painful as it has been, is the right and only path for me and I believe that as long as I keep moving forward and feeling what is there- the healing will happen. Best to everyone in 2015 wherever you are
Hey, espresso. I know how you feel when you say “he actually set the emotional rules which was don’t say anything if it isn’t nice”. And the paradoxical loneliness when your supposed “partner” sleeps beside you. As someone here said, it’s better to feel lonely on your own than to feel lonely in a relationship.
I just wanted to tell you that you’re not alone. All the best to you and your loved ones in 2015. Be safe, keep your boundaries. I am sure your decisions and fight for self-respect will pay off in double.
I am still grieving but feel I have come a long way getting over someone that shouldn’t of had my soul for one day, let alone 5 years. He recently had a “friend” staying at his house over the holiday, and I did really well practicing indifference. Lo and behold, after she left town, I received a text that he was “playing with his big dick thinking of me.” Feelings of disgust came over me, but it also brought back visions of the pain he put me through over and over again. But I snapped out of it, and will continue my journey in 2015 loving myself.
Rewind,
Well think of it this way–If she spent the holidays with him and he is still unsatisfied, then her visit must not have been that eventful!
Sorry, but that is not a measure of a visit being eventful. He would sleep with someone and call me to come over and sleep with him an hour later. It has nothing to do with satifaction….it’s all about him using and abusing women. At least I’m done with him and moving on. The other women will have to learn the hard way, just as I did.
Rewind, this guy sounds like a real sicko. Can’t you block him so that you don’t receive unsolicited, boundary busting, sexually harassing text messages like this? Are you really ok with receiving messages like that?
What I’m saying/asking is why you feel that you have to put up with the feelings of disgust that are triggered by the invasive text messages from this (literal) w*nker. If you know you deserve better for yourself and want to treat yourself with care and respect perhaps you need to block him. Protect yourself from more unnecessary pain.
This year has been a painful one but a life changing blessing at the same time. This last EUM 2 year relationship was my wake up call to see what in me was choosing these types over the last 10 years. It is true that contact reopens those wounds and makes the healing process first. I finally blocked my EUM for good on Christmas when he reached out saying he was in my hometown (we met in another city but have family in my hometown by coincidence- joy) and didn’t want me to start problems if I saw him. This is comical because I have never reached out to him this last 3 months unless it’s to respond to his attempts of sending me old pictures of us by saying it’s time to move on with his life. When I responded I’m not even there I opened the flood gates where he started texting me he actually was hoping to see me and misses me every day and loves me more than himself. He then tried to pull the im gonna be honesty finally card by telling me he met with female friends behind my back that were ex flings while we were together because I heard this from third parties after our break up and told him no matter what he says I believe the third parties. He rediculously believed in his sick mind that I would respect his forced honesty to have another shot. He proceeded to call me on Christmas balling his eyes out saying he cannot live without me and he’s in so much pain and I was very stern in saying whats done is done you need to move on with your life I’m not interested and I want to find real love that I deserve and he broke down crying saying he can’t fathom me being with another man and I was really hurting him ( mind you this assclown loser was seeing his designated rebound HOURS after our break up, are you frickin kidding me!). I ended up blocking him for good because he claims he will never delete my number like the psycho that he is and I need to move on with my life for my own Hapiness ! It’s me first period. The curiousity and jokes me friends and I would make over his wild attemps were keeping the wound. 2015 is my year to completely cut out bad people out of my life and focus on the good. If he shows up to my house again because I blocked him he is going to have a restraining order slapped on him. To think I’ve never once given him a clue there’s another “chance” up upon the many he screwed up. The painful lessons we learn sometimes open a whole new bright future of learning self commitment and love.
What about the people whose identities are defined by past issues, are not interested in professional help with sifting through the issues in order to heal? I had a Mr. Unavailable “friend” who talked incessantly about something that happened to him 30 years ago. He would blame the incident for all of the ills in his life, but wouldn’t talk about it because it was “too terrible”, and did not see the point in seeing therapy. He sent me links to songs about suicide, without explanation and regularly broke promises while blaming the incident on that behavior. 3 1/2 weeks ago, I went NC because I was feeling manipulated and accepted that he’s not interested in rebounding or recovering. I exhausted myself trying to find ways to help him and finally “get”that I’m not his therapist and that it’s time to move on.
Tabitha, Natalie has a good post on this in her archive:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/this-one-time-in-band-camp-buying-into-their-past-hurt-part-one/
Tabitha, it looks like you responded very well in the end. Men can find it hard to go for therapy, it’s their call but there are consequences in not getting help. I hope you’re feeling better now.
I have grown men and women in my family who blame their current problems (e.g. drinking, being distant and uncommunicative) on their childhood, while I, when I reached age 30ish, realised I’m entirely accountable and responsible for all my actions, that who I am NOW is all that matters and all that I can expect people to respond to. That’s what being an adult is about and I find that I am much lighter and freer than when I was a passive, victim child in my 20s, though it takes a lot of work. We have reasons for the way we are, but not excuses. But maybe I do this work just because I have to – I seemingly have to do it for my life to work out, including a relationship and friendships, while the people I’m talking about have no trouble finding supportive partners. To quote Larry David, ‘whatever works!’.
Soooo right Happyb. Those folk that will not/cannot do their inner work may easily get partners but they’re not necessarily good ones or they get good folk who recognize something’s amiss and bail. My estranged bro used to whine that since he grew up in a dysfunctional family, the world owed him a break. I told him “nope, that means you work 10x as hard to fix your s@#$”. The world ain’t fair.
Hi Noquay, yes the world doesn’t owe anything, that old belief that I’d had enough bad luck and good luck would follow is long gone, and completely irrational when we look at the wider world. But this brings me a feeling of empowerment instead of bitterness. The world ain’t fair, but it ain’t unfair either. It just is. Certainly most of our actions have the appropriate consequences and our luck improves when we work hard and open our eyes to it. I do wobble and wonder why some people (ok, men!) seem to have it easier, but really I know that the work on fixing your ^&*( is rewarding and so much better than the alternative.
Yep, feel the same way often. After 10+ years in the west, I almost feel I am “owed” a good partner, a sense of belonging, community. Bull! When I see the level of extreme poverty, mental illness going on right next door, I understand although terribly lonely, I am lucky. Men will always have an easier time finding someone new here. Simple demographics; far more successful women here than men, men don’t often care if a woman can support herself, is together, women do. Men can have some sort of rship with someone not compatible, we generally cannot. Just saw a male acquaintance with his second women within less than a week, if he were female, he’d be completely alone. While getting our act together, being a decent person is good from a growth standpoint, it’s no guarantee of getting what we want. However, we owe it to ourselves to be the best “us” we can be.
Noquay, just keep doing what you’re doing and change will come. Being a decent person doesn’t guarantee anything but at least we can live with ourselves. You’re right to think about demographics because so much of your situation is an external issue, but don’t be a hostage to it. I don’t think you are, I just say it because if I listened to all the numbers I hear for women my age, I’d give up right now or act desperately, and observation can sometimes trick us. It just takes one person.
@rags mom.. Yes, I am going to give it a bit of work with my ex. He has asked for this and we have been together for a VERY long time, so I think it makes sense to at least try. This other fellow (the MM) really skewed my perception. So I think it’s worth trying for a short time so as not to throw the baby out with the bath water, as they say. He is a really great guy, but no fireworks as with MM. What is your plan for timing with husband? What do you think would need to change for you to b happy together? What about if your OM (or another, but perhaps older and closer version) were to come knocking again? I am interested to hear how you are managing this. Happy new year! Today I stewed a bit about things and drafted another email telling him not to come by or talk to me again. But I didn’t send it.
Just trying to focus on my own happiness and havin fun for now. Have a good night!
Hi again Lea, Ive written two replies below to your current situation …hope you got through what sounds like a rough night with NC ….and good morning, Happy new Year ! Just wonderin, whats your age and MMs ? I think it makes a difference to the situation and solutions at your disposal ….
Re my situation = I’m back in the marriage for good Lea. Its not like Ive given this a timeframe to ‘see if it works’ for 6 months etc …thats what ppl told me to do a year ago, all I was doing was sitting back and enjoying husband buy me things and give his time /attention trying to get me to forget OM, at the same time I was enjoying OM’s attention as well and his mesaages saying ‘I will be there for you as your friend if you decide to divorce’ etc ….both of them were starting to hate me to be honest, cos the truth is I didnt have the guts to make up my mind, and I didnt want to leave the security of a 11 year marriage where my husband was starting to appreciate me like I wanted, for a shot at a guy 9 years younger, living in America, and who had plenty of women his age all around him….makin a decision and sticking to it is what being a grown up is all abt right ….im happy wiht my decision but know I will have many bad days when I doubt it, i wont reverse it tho.
Ahh.. I feel like I’m going crazy!! I want to break NC so bad right now.. Help! I don’t think I can keep doing this. What did you guys do to get thru the early stages?? Does this get better??
Hi Leanne, I think you should leave your ex, whom you left for the MM, alone at present even if he is asking for a reconciliation or talks re reconciliation. You are not free from MM emotionally and as Rosie mentions above there is a long way to go in sorting yourself out internally re your choices etc. You don’t really seem in a position to go back to your ex with a free heart – are you really ready to treat him and yourself with care, trust, respect and love? The man you left for the MM? The MM that you are (understandably) far from being over? Nat’s posts on buffers may be handy to read here – to get a handle on possible reasons why pursuing reconciliation and or friendship with your dumped ex may seem particularly attractive to you at this moment.
To add, the decent thing to do re your ex, IMO, is to realise he is not a baby in the bathwater. It’s not your job to worry about if/when your ex moves on. That is his choice to make but he does deserve honesty – to know that you are still emotionally stuck on MM.
Hi Leanne, a bit concerned about you jumping back into a relationship with your ex as well ….I’m sure hes a big boy and if he comes back in , its cos he wants to, …but I’m looking out for you when I say this = getting back with ex might be putting too much pressure on yourself right now when u are clearly heartbroken over MM ..you need some time to recover, I was suggesting fun harmless things like maybe speed dating going along with your girlfriends, hanging out with male friends u are comfortable with but who know that u arent looking for anything more right now …take time to heal before getting into another relationship especially with ex right now,if there wasnt enuf magic with him to stop u falling for MM, whats to say it wont happen again…i think a new guy has a better chance of taking ur mind off things …but u have to have a small healing period before an actual new relationship …meeting new men to remind yourself that there are plenty of good men out there is what I was suggesting …
And re – you feeling tempted to break NC – dont do it please. You know the reason you are asking us here rather than your close friends, u want completely objective advice from ppl who have been in similar situations. This is objective advice. Please consider =
1. He will lose respect for you or may already have at your continued weakness to get over a MM. You know his opinion counts, dont even try denying it = end it with dignity, dear girl.
2. Showing inklings of being willing to settle for crumbs indicates you dont think u deserve better. He will know you value yourself that less,and that he has that much power over you = you’re asking to be treated badly and a man will oblige.
3. I could repeat all that has already been said about him being a jerk AC and all of that. But I wont – I will say this = if you really care about him and respect and cherish what the two of you had / have, then for the LOVE OF GOD, dont break NC. Be classy. step back, show that you respect his marriage and that you want him to do the right thing. If he loves you, he will get a divorce, and come to you. they dont have kids, it could happen. ur blocking that possibility by acceptance of OW status. give him a chance to miss you. if he doesnt come back single and available, then he wasnt the man u thought he was, and what u had wasnt what u thought it was, it all just fantasy , by then months would have passed and maybe the real Jim to your Pam then has the space to make his entry. I believe in that saying that the universe gives us what we really want, but we have to let it or allow it to do so , dont we ?
Spot on!
Thank you for this kind post, Nat. It helps taking the pressure off a bit during these end of the year ruminations.
It’s been three years now since my husband told he had an affair, he wanted to move in with her, and she is pregnant. All in the ciurse of Christmas / New Year. They live happily togehter now and he sees his other children every weekend. The children love their new little brother, and I have always taken care not to speak badly to them about their father or the other woman because I didn’t want them to have to take sides.
So all sems “fine” and more and more friends are saying I should be over it by now and should go out there start dating again. I am myself my worst critic, I feel like a total failure, pathetic that after the casual relationship with the very EUM I had for about a year after my husband left me everything just collapsed inside of me and I have hid in a shell since.
I have been so NOT out ther, it’s a laugh. I even let myself put on quite some weight, not on purpose, of course, but unconsciously also a sure method of being less attractive and avoid meeting someone.
It’s not that I would want to be with my Ex husband again. After all, who wants a man that goes around knocking up other women while he is still married, and who would rather press the erase and rewind button than work things out. And it’s not that I am not over the EUM yet. I can see him for what he is and that he would never be able to give me the love, care, trust and respect I want. so it’s not them.
The problem is, that I am just massively scared. I do know how I don’t want to be treated. But that doesn’t mean i believe that I can find someone who will treat me the way I want, with love care trust and respect. And even if I met someone, how could this fit in with the children and work? And could I let someone into my life, who would at some point leave again? And then this voice comes in my head again, telling me, you should be over it by now, it’s been three years goddamnit, get your act together, don’t be so pessimistic, you are pathetic.
But Nats post showed me that it’s maybe time for some self-compassion. Maybe it’s not totally odd that I am not over it yet, living happily ever after in a new new relationship. I have decided for 2015 I will not put any pressure on myself for having or wanting to find someone. Instead I will learn come up with love, car, trust, and respect for myself. I will be self-compassionate, treat myself well, do something for my health. I will enjoy being with my children without comparing myself to The Pefect Mom TM. I will enjoy work without always having to overachieve because my self-worth isn’t equal to my success at work. And I will nurture, revive and build friendships and be open to meet new people, so I have a social life besides work and children. If I achieve that, who cares, if I am in a relationship or not. I will probably be damn happy.
Happy New Year!
Dear Lucy,
– “more and more friends are saying I should be over it by now and should go out there start dating again”: this is superficial advice given by people who clearly have never gone through something as rough as you have, otherwise they woudn’t be speaking this lightly to you;
– “The problem is, that I am just massively scared.” That is an important sign from yourself that signals that you may be not ready yet: so don’t force it. Take your time. When you are ready you will know, because you will feel curious and hopeful and maybe even joyous towards what’s next expecting you.
– “and I have always taken care not to speak badly to them about their father or the other woman because I didn’t want them to have to take sides.” This is incredible. I have never heard or known personally anybody who really does this. That is very generous of you, and you should give yourself extra, super-extra cudos because what you’re doing is way beyond your duties of ex-wife, incredibly caring towards your children, and a completely free gift to the other woman.
– “And then this voice comes in my head again, telling me, you should be over it by now, it’s been three years goddamnit, get your act together, don’t be so pessimistic, you are pathetic.” It might be helpful to identify who these voices actually belong to, from the people that surrounded you in your childhood or adolescence (and maybe you’ll find an echo of this in some of your friends’ words now).
Best wishes, V.
Thank you, V. That’s very kind and very helpful!! 🙂
Lucy, you sound so self-aware and in touch with your situation. Yes it is scary to be alone and to worry about the future. I think self-awareness is the thing that if we cultivate will keep us true and happy. E.g. you might meet an EU or AC or just someone not right for you. But self-awareness will prevent you getting too deep. If you’re in touch with your feelings and know how you want to be treated – you will manage fine then. Add on one extra element – knowing how to act. E.g. if you feel you’re being treated badly, do you trust yourself to know how to act appropriately?
Its okay if something doesnt work out as long as it doesnt hurt us in the process, as long as its good while it lasts. Most of us are here because we are or were in relationships that werent good while they lasted.
You can’t predict the future. Your ex cheated on you and made you distrustful and afraid of the uncertainty of others behavior. Perhaps it makes you anxious and wanting to control outcomes. You could reflect on your ex relationship some more – perhaps the way it ended has come to dominate how you think about relationships or even about your ex and about yourself in relationships, whereas whats important is the way it was before that end. The end was not about you, your ex left. Before that, it was about the two of you together. What stories have you told yourself about your ex relationship and its end? How do those stories make you feel about the future? Those stories are not facts, but they might be limits you are setting on your possibilities.
Suki, thank you for those wise questions. You really got me thinking!
I guess I trust myself enough to spot amber or red flags, but I am not sure I would know how to act on those yet. In fact I have been playing back my casual experience with the EUM a number of times, and although I know this had been going on far too long, I still can’t figure out at what point exactly I should have said enough or what I should have done earlier. E.g. if I met someone now who (like the EUM) would almost solely rely on communication via text messages, I would recognize it as lazy behaviour, but what would I actually do, when would I opt out? At the moment for me it would be either “stay” or “run” – which might be a little disproportionate at times. 😉 I guess this comes down to self-confidence, inner balance, and how I would be able to deal with rejection (real or imagined). So it might be better to give myself some more time to get my act together before I go out there.
And you are right asking about the stories I am telling myself about the relationship and its end. At the moment it’s still about it having been my fault / not being good enough / a bad person etc. I have to put that more into perspective to learn where I acutally should have done things differently and where it was out of my control.
Lucy, I think there is no set time to get out. The right guy never slips through your fingers – either he’s not right, or you werent ready. Trust your actions and judgment, and trust that there are always chances for do-overs. If he’s the right guy, he’ll step up. But the odds are the lazy texter will not step up, or if he does you’ll find there are other lazy things about him.
My own experience from the EU/AC was that it was a couple years after the relationship that I could be indifferent, and 3-4 years before I could see my role in it and try to imagine his side of it. It takes time to have perspective especially in the case of AC where there was so much bad stuff and it wasn’t just incompatibility.
I think continued rejection is the problem, not reject per se – the problem is being with someone that takes pleasure from rejecting you after you have both made investments, or that is afraid of their own desires for intimacy [hot/cold], or is managing down your expectations, or is a mess, or whatever. So its not how to deal w being rejected but how to even realize that you have been rejected and then to not give that person the chance to reject you again. This I think is the hard bit – but you know if it takes you 3 instead of 1 month to get out of a meh or bad relationship, its okay. Dont judge yourself harshly for that.
Oh what a hangover for New Years Day, and not through drink but through going and breaking NC, I’m utterly gutted with myself. It’s early days but I’d been proud that I’d been NC since Dec 17, had resisted responding to a fishing for attention email from ex MM on Dec 26, then yesterday I cracked and responded to a new mail sent Dec 30 overnight. I feel so horrible. It was the same pattern, once I’ve thrown him a response to suggest I still love him he’s gone again until he needs some reassurance again.
I don’t know when I’m going bounce back. When am I going to stop my false hoping? I know I wouldn’t want what was on offer even if he turned up on my doorstep tomorrow. I just can’t quite let it go and move forward, I can’t allow myself to bounce back.
I’m hoping you have all been stronger than me this New year…and to those of you that have joined me in breaking NC…shit it hurts doesn’t it?
Colly,
I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. Please be kind to yourself; you deserve it.
Veracity
Hi, I’m hoping to receive some advice about moving on and in which way I should do it. I have spent about 6 weeks going over it in my mind and cannot decide. I didn’t want to rush the decision, but I’m still unsure. I may be just scared. Would you please give me an objective opinion?
I’ve known this person for 25 years. His mom used to live next door and she was a saint! I loved her. She was grandma Helen to my daughter. Her son is my age and I saw him periodically, but he would show up briefly and leave. We stayed in loose contact. As his mom got older he started *acting* more interested in people. I have since realized he is trying to ride on his mom’s reputation and take it on as his own. He wants everyone one to believe he is a harmless saint. He is spectacular at it!!!
He has a harem of single women like me, around his age, that he will go and do social things with, mostly in a group of 2 or 3 of us. He’s always a perfect gentlemen. Most of these women are attracted to him and, at some level think they have a chance with him. I’ve talked with them and because of the way he acts – opening doors, very complimentary, treats them like a queen, takes them nice places, etc..they think he might be interested in them but it will take time. I used to think this way too until a couple of years ago, when I came right out and asked him!
He’s an attorney and he recently told someone that he works smart, not hard and it struck me, a moment of clarity, like his mask was slipping. He pretends to help people, but he really does as little as possible to have the appearance and glory of helping, but he hasn’t done much of anything. He passes it off to someone else or doesn’t do the work and acts like he did. Often his pretending to do something and not doing it hurts the person because they believe he did it. He said he looked over my father’s trust and that my stepmother could legally raid it. My intuition told me she couldn’t, so I hired another attorney and sure enough, she was not allowed to touch it. He pretended to review it thoroughly, but he didn’t! I have similar examples, but this is his MO.
He tells me things like “you’re perfect, don’t change” “you are a pearl of great price” and whenever i would say, hey, what do you mean when you say things like that, he would say something like, oh, I just like to make sure I tell people in my life how much I appreciate them. Then he would disappear for a month and come back stronger…
I have a small consulting business and he is a client. He was introducing me to people as his law clerk. It was so demeaning. I finally told him how demeaning it was and asked him to stop. He did, but it’s interesting how he never introduced me as his friend. He said he compartmentalized people by where he knows them from. Which is funny, because if that were true, wouldn’t I be an old friend? I think he gets and ego boost at having a law clerk; it puts me in the one-down position.
The last straw for me was when I agreed to go to this great event with him and his harem. He said that “he would have a hard time keeping his eyes off me in that (cocktail) attire, but he would be a gentleman”. WTF! I was so pissed I just wanted to rip his face off and slap him with it! I still feel that way. I’m so disgusted. He is a total fraud. A creepy, disgusting, conniving, fraud. I feel sick that it took me so long to see it.
I sent a response asking why he would say that to me and he replied (true to form, who me?, I’m hapless and harmless) “Just a complement that you look nice especially in a formal dress— I hope you do not take any harm in the comment—only the best of intentions. Smiles! chip”
I let him know “When you say things like that I feel very uncomfortable. We are friends and that’s not how I speak to my friends and I do not appreciate being spoken to in that way”. He said he was sorry for any offense and I let him know I wasn’t comfortable going anymore. to which he replied “I am so sorry. You are a beautiful person inside and out. I value you as a friend. In the future I promise to keep emails to who what where and when and omit any commentary as emails do not easily reflect my inflection and context. If there is anything I can to make amends, just let me know. Regards, sincerely, your friend, chip
I didn’t respond. I get he’s using and manipulating me. I get that he’s counting on me not seeing that he’s a fraud (or a psycho, narcissist?). He wants me and everyone else to believe he is harmless, but he is anything but. I do not want a friendship with him, nor do i want him as a client anymore (I researched and edited a published pamphlet for him for which he said I would get credit, he didn’t give me credit).
Because of the way he responded…apologetic and remorseful…I feel like a jerk for not spelling it out to him before closing the door. Am I being too nice and/or naive? What, if anything should I say to him? I wrestle with whether or not he is doing all of this consciously. part of me thinks he knows exactly what he is doing.
I know it’s easier for me to look at others’ situations clearly and objectively, I’m hoping my situation is very clear to you and that I’m just too close to it to see clearly.
Thank you for reading and any insights/advice you have. I’m grateful to Nat and all of you. This site is the support I need to stay strong in my journey to healing myself and creating healthy, loving relationships.
Happy New Year!
Veracity
Sounds like a sociopath, which doesn’t mean he goes around killing people, but that he’s a social predator. He knows exactly what to say and what to do superficially (open doors, etc) to get people to do exactly what he wants them to do. I’d say if you feel uncomfortable with him as your client, just say so, and drop him. If he’s giving you huge amounts of money you don’t want to give up, then say you must keep your relationship more professional, and stop doing social things with him and block him. Ask yourself seriously if there is not some chance you are enjoying this empty flattery and that’s why you are choosing not to cut ties with him. Thank god you didn’t not get involved sexually or expect him to become your boyfriend. I actually know of a guy EXACTLY like this. He has strung along my friend for YEARS before she finally wisened up. He would text her constantly saying things like, “How are you, beautiful? missing you today. thinking of you always, etc” but when she would dare press the issue of their relationship and wanting more he would act all innocent and basically be like “Why would you think I’d want more?” Meanwhile he was using her for professional connections, help with his computer, a place to stay when he needed it, etc. Finally she also found out that the whole time he was sending texts like this, he was living with another woman. That’s what these guys are.
I would add that his exact diagnosis (sociopath? narc?) makes no difference and whether he’s doing this on purpose or not makes no difference. the point is you have seen through his act, feel uncomfortable and used and betrayed, and don’t need someone like this as a “friend.”
Thanks, Diane. So no explanation necessary…just don’t do anything with him socially and he’ll get the message.
I get the feeling that when I stop responding to him socially that he’ll stop sending business my way. Maybe not, he still might want to keep his foot in the door with the business stuff.
I used to be very flattered by his compliments! Once I saw through him they just enraged me.
I’m leaning toward fading him out completely. I think it’s hard for me not because of him, but he is the last of my long time “friends”. In a way it’s perfect timing, new year, new friends…real friends.
Hello Veracity,
yes it is clear as the blue sky from the outside, and I think you’re almost there too, maybe you only need a last little push.
You have offered this person so many chances to do right by you that you cannot have any doubt about whether you (!) are being the jerk or not. Just let it go. When you have taken the final decision and acted it out, you’ll find out soon enough if you were right about it or not. If the protokoll doesn’t lie, when this man finds out that you aren’t buying into his lies any more, he’ll probably cut you out/ignore you completely. At least that is the best case scenario.
Take care, V.
Hello V., Thank you for your kind, insightful response. I did need a little push and a reality check that I wasn’t being mean or rude just dropping him after 25 years without comment. I’m working on not buying into the guilt that I feel for protecting myself.
Take care, Veracity
Veracity, this is a lot of drama my friend. A silly humorless bore of a man is not your friend. Just dont go out with him – why are you prolonging the drama? All those texts, all those emotions! I think someone wrote very nicely earlier to avoid ‘soul revealing long’ emails… Exhausting. You’re both being EU – hanging out with people that cannot offer real intimacy or friendship. He sounds super super creepy. Shudder. He’s your client, keep it professional.
If someone found you creepy, would you appreciate being told that? No. And neither does he, so he denies it, and plays the creepy gallant. Theres no point telling people that are not in your family or important long term relationship when they have creeped you out [even within your family etc you’ll get denials and it leads to fights unless both parties are super mature]. It never ends well, I know from experience. By all means write dramatic emails if you enjoy it, but if its keeping you mired in the drama, then thats a choice you’re making. I am all for calling people on their behavior but its best done immediately, quickly, briefly, and without drama. Your own feelings should not be so involved as to guide your actions toward drama. You’re thinking too much about him, not enough about yourself. And all you did was tell someone creepy, that they’re creepy. Done and done. You didn’t embezzle money or break up a family or commit treason. Its an everyday social occurrence. Cut contact.
[fyi; I had someone say something to me that I took to be insulting. I immediately called them on it [I just said that thing is insulting], they looked kind of shocked that I was saying that, but then I proceeded to be friendly and chatty. Later I learnt that this person is a basically good awkward person always putting their foot in their mouth. So I felt bad because its partly my over-reaction, and also because this person is really kind of immature and not a bad person. But I’m not going to apologize or reopen that – I’m just as friendly as I am to others when I see them. Thats it. Maybe I made a little mistake in that the thing the person said is in my professional circle seen as somewhat insulting but they didn’t know that. Thats okay. Maybe this person will always feel a bit bad around me, not fully comfortable. Thats okay too, all I can do is treat them fairly from here on out. Calling someone out on their behavior has its consequences, and its important to figure out how to deal with those. My anecdote I dont think describes creepy uncle above so ignore him].
Suki, I see where you’re coming from. My letting him know I was uncomfortable was my way of setting a boundary with him and seeing if he would respect it and see if he would deny it or blame it on me. It was, in my mind, my last ditch effort to see if the relationship was salvageable. I don’t see that as drama, but perhaps it is.
Sending a response does feel like drama (but I also felt like maybe I was overreacting and being a jerk), and I’m glad I took the time to check my feelings and have not sent one.
I’m finding it tricky to discern what is a healthy response to someone and what is a reaction that has old stuff rolled into it, so it’s an overreaction. I know this has old stuff in it…so that’s why the need for the reality check. It feels great to recognize these unhealthy people and situations, but I realize I have a lot to learn about what a healthy, appropriate response looks like.
Oh Veracity – you know what I think?
I think this man is quite possibly gay. If he’s not gay, then at the very least he has a major, major problem with women, verging on hatred.
I know I’ve said this before on this site, and it’s not just my ‘thing’, but these behaviours you describe indicate to me a man who has had a bad relationship with his ‘saintly’ mother, and who resents women as a result.
– harem collecting and manipulation
– the ‘little gentleman’ act
– the failure to have a committed relationship with a woman
– intimacy-dodging = fear of being smothered by a woman
These men LOVE pretending to be eligible bachelors, when they are anything but. The last EUM I was involved with was one of these. And they love nothing more than having women in the harem fighting over who is going to be the lucky one he dates.
I would walk away from this one. I know the packaging looks very attractive, as on paper he is Such A Nice Man, but I think actually there’s something quite wrong here, and that you will be terribly used and hurt by this man.
Veracity, you come across very strong to me because his MO seems exactly like my ex EU AC, down to the mixture of saintliness and dirtiness and the faux-sincerity, the ‘gentleman’ act and ‘hapless and harmless’ act (this drove women crazy, literally). I was hooked for years, in complete denial. It was interesting to see later on how many women had defected and moved on, and how many men knew instantly that he was shady, while all I could see was his followers, including men who he was ‘brotherly’ with, all competing for attention. It’s sad that I and harem members must have all been so starved of genuine affection and intimacy that this nonsense could gain a foothold.
Interesting what Ethelreda says, I came to the same conclusion that he must hate me and other women. Give me grumpy and blunt over smooth charm any day, there’s often a true gentleman underneath it instead of an empty vessel.
You don’t seem in danger of being hooked or even too emotionally attached. If you need to keep him in your life for the sake of business, just be as polite as you need to be and ridicule his ‘innocent’ compliments as they come without a deep conversation about it. Well done for seeing the light.
happy b, It’s funny because the dirtiness was recently added to the mix. As he saw me pulling back and distancing myself, setting boundaries, he got increasingly aggressive and provacative! The other stuff was his standard MO.
I’ve also thought that it was/is sad how desperate for love, attention and affection I was to fall for it.
Your response helped me to remember feeling that way; he started moving in on me right after my divorce. It was just my daughter and I and I didn’t have emotional support. He’s no fool! He’s a predator.
I’m moving swiftly in the direction away from charm. I’ve stated before that it’s kinda like stinky cheese to me after a while. This guy was the one to help me see that. I prefer someone who will tell it to me straight as best as they can and let me deal with it, rather than snow me and keep me in the dark so he can manipulate me.
Your empty vessel analogy struck me. I was just thinking about that the other day, a new guy I met (who is also charming) struck me as an empty vessel who was looking for me to fill it for him. I said no thanks.
Right now I feel super vulnerable and exposed so I’m gonna stay away from relationships for a while.
Did your ex EUM like this leave you alone when you made it clear you were on to him?
Thank you for your insights and advice as well as your kind and compassionate words of encouragement.
Veracity, I do feel for you after knowing him 25 years. I thought my experience was epic for being a 14 year ‘friendship’.
It’s familiar to me that he moved in after your divorce. My ex-AC had a definite pattern of going to women when they were in a vulnerable state – bereavement, illness, marriage breakdown. He didn’t go for conventionally attractive women but they would always be strong, smart, feisty and independent, going through a rough time. He would drop everything for them and give his all, then disappear when they became dependent on him. Going back to the empty vessel thing, I saw it as him having a very hungry ego that would be satisfied once he got their devotion, then he would get cold feet and go after someone else for a new fix, leaving them even weaker, then he’d return and make it all ok again, rinse and repeat. There might have been some truth in the hapless, innocent act – I don’t think this MO was all premeditated, but it’s what happened repeatedly, so he was/is predatory.
You ask if he left me alone after I told him I was onto him – it makes me laugh because really I always knew what he was like, and he would even joke about his ‘victims’, but I had cognitive dissonance and thought I could be the exception to the rule and he would somehow learn we had a good thing.
Then I wrote him a long letter telling him his behaviour and moved out, but I still carried on seeing him for some time after that. It took a minor incident, catching him red-handed being slippery with the truth, that made me tell him to stay away. Considering how long we’d known each other, he made very little effort to get me back after that, no doubt he could distract himself easily and was never really emotionally involved anyway.
I used to be so scared of being consigned to his dustbin of needy, crazy exes, as I no doubt am, but at least this is real and I know who I am again, and I can appreciate those women now even if no one else in his world does. His friends kind of know his MO but trivialise it and blame the women for getting attached, ‘he’s just too kind and giving and they want to take more than he can give’.
You sound very switched on about all of this. I can’t quite tell if/how romantically involved you were, but it sounds like there was enough emotional involvement for his disappearances to hurt and that he probably held you back from recovering and finding a healthy relationship. I’m sorry that you feel vulnerable, I can only say, being 3 years down the line, that the freedom of being away from the drama is really wonderful. I have since fallen for charm again and made other mistakes, but am still happy to be out of that dark place I was in with the AC. On the other hand, I look back fondly on the early stages of rebuilding and discovering myself and the world again, I hope it’s the same for you.
happy b, Thank you. 25 years is a long time and yes, it was strictly a friendship. Off and on over the years I wondered if he might be interested in more when he “turned it on”, but then I would check myself and remind myself that that was just who he was. I didn’t see how he was using me, I just bought the kind, harmless and hapless bit. That is why I chose to stay in the ‘friendship’.
!4 years is a long time too. Good for you getting away from him. Who cares what he thinks?!
The MO you mentioned about going for women when they are vulnerable sounds right, and smart and capable does too! I have been pretty passive (currently changing) although I can be fiesty. In the past I protected others better than I protected myself.
I am switched on about this, and I’ll use a sweater analogy to help to describe why. This experience (realization) with this man is a thread connected to a sweater; I’ve been unraveling this sweater for a while. This particular thread seems to be a very important one, not because of who this person is, but more what he represents (or whom). You mentioned cognitive dissonance before; I believe this is key for me. I think I’ve woken up and am now seeing clearly, seeing things as they are, not as how I want them to be. I’m learning to trust that what I see is really happening and responding on that information. I’m also still learning how to respond (or if I should).
Not seeing/trusting is a habit of thought I need to change. Getting confidence in my ability to respond effectively is also a goal.
He may have held me back in some ways; I don’t think I was ready to see it/him until I did. I kept running into similar versions of him (selfish, uncaring, huge ego, wanting me to carry the emotional load, to chase them). I call it same guy, different pants syndrome. When that happens, I know I need to pay attention ’cause that lesson is gonna keep coming around until I get it. I was stuck.
I fell for a guy recently who was a lot like this guy in many ways, but was actively showing signs of mutual interest but I sensed he wanted me to chase him. When I realized who he really was it hurt deeply. I had also had a startling, and hurtful realization about two women who were recent acquaintances. All of that was happening at the same time as this situation was coming to a head and around the holidays. It was kind of a reality sunami!
I feel raw and vulnerable because of the feelings that I have unearthed, not because of him. I’m unstuck (!) and I’m feeling what I have avoided feeling for so long.
I’m so glad that you have moved on and are out of the drama. You sound happy and comfortable in your own skin. These ‘mistakes” we make are opportunities for growth. You sound like you have come a long way!
I’m grateful for this conversation. Thank you, happy b!
“I have been pretty passive (currently changing) although I can be fiesty. In the past I protected others better than I protected myself.”
Interesting, I could say exactly the same. I would so like to meet BR commenters because there are probably lots of similar traits. This passiveness might be by your own terms. I say this because I’ve commented to a few close people that I used to be passive, and feel like I’ve transformed – but I believe them when they say they didn’t see the ‘before’ me in that way. To them I was just going through a rough time. It’s reassuring to me that they don’t see such an extreme ‘before and after’, since a dramatic outward transformation might not be genuine. I don’t think people would particularly describe me as feisty (except for ol’ silver tongue’) but it comes in bursts and I’ve always had a strong position on things.
I’m also very interested in your discussion with Mephista about the EUM subtype getting you to chase them, this really resonates and makes me wonder if it’s why so much of my romantic history is humiliating, so much ‘same guy, different pants’ as you say. I have definitely encountered and fallen for one of this subtype in the past few years, and have now quit him, knowing it could go on and on if I let it.
Unstuck is better than stuck! Mistakes happen, it’s how we handle them that matters and making sure we quit at the right times.
I’ve thought that as well. I wonder if we had similar experiences growing up.
It’s quite possible that to the outside world I don’t seem that different. It has been building all of my life. I was extremely shy, quiet, and anxious as a child. I barely spoke and when I did, I stammered. I was taught to be invisible, unless I was needed. I was taught to turn my power over to the nearest authority figure. That my role was to make them happy, so sit back and follow orders. Sad, but true.
I’m learning to pay attention to what I think/want and express it/do it. It’s still challenging for me because I think there’s a part of me that thinks (believes?) I am bad/wrong if I do that.
“I’m also very interested in your discussion with Mephista about the EUM subtype getting you to chase them, this really resonates and makes me wonder if it’s why so much of my romantic history is humiliating, so much ‘same guy, different pants’ as you say”.
Humiliating. Ouch. Yes, that resonates with me as well. For me, I’ve felt the hurt, confusion and anger for “having” to chase someone for attention, love, affection only to be rejected. I read that sentence now and it makes no sense to me. Why would I do that to myself?
I’ve been reading this book on boundaries and she, Rokelle Lerner, talks about relationship patterns, how to spot them, what they mean, and how to heal. I’ve found it very helpful. I started reading it about a month ago, I devoured it, then got overwhelmed ’cause it’s a lot of information! I plan to revisit it again very soon, this time more thoughtfully.
Cheers to quitting at the right time!
There are similarities. I was very quiet and anxious too, and a people pleaser, but think that was just my nature. I do know that in teenage years I was often silenced and told that my feelings were wrong. It’s challenging to be expressive but also feels like a whole new world opens up, the results are good. As I write this, I remember that even a few years ago I felt like no one listened and like there were still people who told me I was wrong, but now seem to have found my voice.
It’s so interesting to hear that others have gone through the chasing experiences. Having chased 2 people post-AC to no avail, I felt like something was wrong with me. One of them is almost same guy, different pants, and I withdrew from him, realising it was a poor investment. The other didn’t seem EU, not charismatic and charming like the others – but he seemed so interested and I’d been trying to work out whether it was genuine, or if he just wanted me to be interested in him. Seems like the latter, weird. Now I think he’s a charmer in more subtle ways. I didn’t/don’t humiliate myself in front of him or others, it’s more a case of investing in the idea and then being disappointed and losing confidence in my intuition. Maybe it was just bad luck this time. I’ll look at the Lerner book.
All we can do is quit and not look back.
Yes, I see more similarities now. I was also silenced and told my feelings were wrong as well as talked over (parents and older siblings) and told children were “supposed to be seen and not heard”. I’ve often wondered if it’s just my nature, but given my background, I’m not sure.
It is interesting how we grow into our voices, given the space and time to do so. I still feel sometimes that I’m not heard (usually around loud/attention seeking individuals) and have learned that it doesn’t having anything to do with whether or not I’m worthy of being heard, they are just not the listening type! Also, that those that will tell you that you are wrong likely just don’t like, or want to hear what you have to say; it may be an inconvenient truth.
I’m much more expressive now, especially one-on-one. I still have a harder time with large groups of extroverts; I tend to hang back and listen… occasionally piping in. I find them overwhelming.
I’m sure there are lots of others that have had the chasing experiences! There’s nothing wrong with you. You want love and affection like the rest of us.
Yes, I get where you are coming from! Oh boy can I relate. I understand that you don’t humiliate yourself in front of them, but feel awful (foolish, in my case)for buying into it and then not trusting your instincts because you bought in and didn’t see it. It often takes me a while to regroup and get my confidence back.
I’ve learned to pay very close attention when I meet someone new. Close attention to how I feel, as well as their body language, and what they are saying. Does what their saying match their actions/body language? Do they seem genuinely interested in me? Do they listen? That one may take a couple of outings to figure out, but they usually reveal themselves by asking something you’ve already told them, twice, in my case!
I’ve also decided that I will no longer hint, work super hard to make sure they are getting the signal I’m interested, suggest an outing, or anything even remotely like chasing! I’ve burned my chasing shoes.
It’s getting easier to do it as I’ve been practicing. The minute I find myself wanting to chase (feeling anxious that he hasn’t _______), it’s a flag, I make a mental note. Or if his behavior pings my radar as sketchy, then it’s a flag; then when I get home, I write it down. May sound strange, but I’ve found it helps me to keep myself honest and not head off to fantasy land!
I’ve also been trying to pay attention to what similarities these men have with one another and who they remind me of from the past.
It sounds like as you are growing/learning you are attracting a different type of man that has a nuance you hadn’t experienced yet, so you hadn’t learned to spot him.
Hears to looking forward!
I had a look at Rokelle Lerner and saw there were lots of connections to alcohol, I wonder if that’s part of your story. I have an alcoholic parent and all the damage I see is in my teens, but I know I put others before me even as a very young child, which is pretty strange. Part of having a voice is to not internalise it when people say you’re wrong, I think. I used to accept pretty much anything people told me about myself or my thoughts, but sometimes they get it wrong.
Yes, you see, it *feels* humiliating. We know even if they don’t. You’re spot on, that’s how I clocked the EU mark 2, he would act so interested and suggest a future but then couldn’t remember whereabouts I’d moved to, which is a pretty big thing, so that told me to quit.
I’m so encouraged by what you’ve said, especially the tips for avoiding fantasy land, I really don’t ever want to go there again, it’s a ridiculous place!
Thank you, Ethelreda,
Wow! You have him nailed! I have wondered if he was gay (so does one of the women in the harem!)!
This is so helpful! Actually, a guy I met recently has similar “qualities”. I spotted him quickly and turned down a date. Yay, I’m learning!!
I do recognize that this reveals to me just how EU I am that I’m attracting these guys. *sigh* I have decided to stop dating so I can focus on becoming emotionally available.
I’m tired of setting myself up to be used and hurt.
He also sounds like a special type of EUM. This subtype doesn’t chase you or try to fast forward intimacy. Instead, they blow very hot with compliments, admiration, flattery and interested body language. They never ever make the first move, might not even initiate communications first (but they appear very happy when you call them and encourage you to
initiate further contacts). This can go on for years. The whole point is that when and if you make the first move (and they take advantage of it) they can then step back and say everything was your idea and initiative and that they weren’t/ aren’t that interested, have no idea why you thought they were interested and never wanted to have a relationship with you. They play ignorance about their own behaviour which falls into hot (words)/ cold (actions) category.
I fully understand your issue with -am I asserting my boundaries or over-reacting- but you do think and analyse this guy in far too great detail. Keep him on a minimal, professional distance if you can or need to, or flush. Don’t explain or try to resolve “issues”. These men are neither interested, worthy nor capable of understanding anything. Hey, lie and politely refuse going out with him and his harem saying you’re dating somebody else and thank him for giving you confidence again with all his compliments, haha.
And in reality – as any lady who has been stalked/hassled/harassed knows – if a man REALLY wants to get in touch with you, he can, and will.
That’s why God made restraining orders …
Either extreme is miles away from respectful mutual communication.
Oh, Mephista, you just described a guy I recently fell for! You described it so well. The explanation for the behavior makes sense.
Must be something about me (ahem, EU myself) that attracts that particular kind of guy. I have a history of trying to chase/win the guy who does not want to be caught (dad). 🙁
My agenda to catch, his agenda to run and never be caught. I’m on to myself!
For me, the first thing I pay attention to is sincere interest, or lack thereof. If they are not actively listening and genuinely looking to connect, I bow out. If I start to feel anxious and uncomfortable that is a sign that I’m feeling the need to chase and better check myself.
Guilty of over analyzing….most things!!
You’re right, they don’t care, why should I bother explaining, it’s a waste of breath/energy.
Ha!
Thank you for your insights/advice! Happy 2015!
@rosie, @rags mom and @lizzp, thank you for your replies. I didn’t break NC with MM last night but I really wanted to, even if just to say “please don’t come by anymore”. I think I’m going crazy at night, so going to try going for a month without drinking (and going to bed early) because it seems to get really bad for me at night.
In answer to your question @rags, my ex, MM, his wife and I are all in our early 30s. I agree that I need to be careful with my ex and stay NC with MM. Ex is a really good guy and deserves to be happy. So I’ll think on that and what it means for him (and us). We’ve been together 11 years, so it’s hard to just let go entirely. But I agree that we shouldn’t be rushing back into things. I think it is healthy for us to spend some time apart, it’s just difficult to do but his feelings are very important. I haven’t told him everything about the situation (nor does he need to hear it I think) but he has a bit of an idea of what happened. I’m trying to be good to him, I’m just not at my best right now and not really clear on what I should do. Counseling starts next week, so hopefully that helps.
I really want to stay NC with MM and move on. I can see that this is going to be VERY difficult next week at office. When MM stopped by on Monday, he was already probing a bit about when I’ll be back in the office. I think he’ll try to poke around at some point, so I will just try to be busy when/if he does, as per suggestions here, until it stops. But man, I really hope I don’t crack! I read the post on workplace break up drama and that was very helpful. On NC day 15.. Hoping this gets easier.
Agreed @rags that the universe often gives you what you want if you make space for it. Trying to get in a good headspace for good things to come. Thanks for your words!! How are things going with hubby this week now that you’ve committed to it in your head? Do you still see/hear from your OM at all?
hope you have a great first day of 2015 everyone!
And I just want to say that I know I sound like an EU whiner (as I said before), but I really really appreciate everyone’s words and support on here. This site and your comments have been the difference between me staying NC with MM and getting well vs. embarrassing myself, chasing MM, losing dignity and feeling way, way worse. I know it could easily be me right now (hell, I was almost like that in Dec when he finally made a decision and broke things off). It is so so nice to know there are people out there listening and supporting, despite my actions in getting to this place. I feel like I’ve fallen into a big dark hole, but you guys are throwing down a rope and helping me out. Thank you!!
Leanne, Im sure no one here thinks u sound like a whiner, honestly ! A few may sound more well than others, cos they are further on the healing path and have had more time, but most ppl on here have gone through the same unfortunate journey …
Well done for not breaking NC ….we have all gone through the initial stages / first few rounds of NC where a few crumbs like ‘ Ive missed you’ or even ‘how its going , everything okay ?’ from them can make us fall back into the cycle, sometimes we think ‘no harm in an email now and then to know hes alive and let him know i still care’ but it gets complicated and self -hurtful all over again …
When I first left my old job, I woke every morning with a pounding headache knowing I couldnt doll up and go to work where HE would be there …. i wondered for weeks if it would get better at all …it did….eventually ….u have to know what you want tho. and be focussed on that. Be your own best friend …I look back and think there was a lot I could have done to break out of it cleaner and smarter, i dont think i made a whole hearted effort for a long time , so reflect on that , u have to really really want change to what you have been living the past 6 months or to where u know ud be headed if u had just continued being there for him ….
Also, re all 3 of you being in your early 30s ( I guessed your age right !) ….or specifically you, you have already invested a couple of years of your prime on this ( you could have been out there meeting possible Mr Right’s) ….and u will still have to invest months at least healing fully from this …do u really want to waste possibly ur best years before turning 35 on being an OW or holding out to be his OW ? …I realised many doors closed at 35+ , dont waste your precious time, right now ur clinging also because moving on would be admitting u wasted 2 precious years, but not moving on can only compound your loss unfortunately …I met OM at 34 and am almost 36 now, 2 years disappeared with so much energy invested in what should have just been a pleasant friendship thats all ….few weeks of NC will crystallise all this in your thoughts
Rags mom- RE: “being out there meeting possible Mr. Rights”…Leanne was already in a long term committed relationship when things heated up with the MM. Jumping from man to man is a sign of a “user” mentality. People aren’t toys or objects that will solve all our problems.
I agree, Rosie. ‘The Man’ shouldn’t be the object of the exercise. What should be the object of the exercise is:
1) learning about yourself: triggers, strengths, weaknesses – especially weaknesses and ‘hooks’, by analysing past relationships.
2) learning to be happy without a relationship, even just for a while: finding out what makes YOU tick, what lights your fire, what you enjoy, outside of the couple situation.
3) learning to slow your roll when you do decide to take up dating again: using things like the 6 Month Rule to weed out fakers and psychos, listening to your spidey-senses, flagging code amber and code red behaviours.
Some of us are going to spend a LONG time at stages 1 and 2, which have to be done together anyway. I may well spend the rest of my life here, and that’s fine with me.
Inner Etheldreda/Evil Twin adds: “Of course, it’s NOT fine with me at all, really. What I REALLY want is Perfect Man and Perfect Relationship with no effort on my part, plenty of zing but no danger, plenty of fun but no problems.”
Outer Etheldreda/Good Twin replies: “And it was precisely this kind of dumbass thinking that brought me through repeated heartbreak to BR in the first place!”
So true! Very funny! I suspect I’ll be hanging out in 1 & 2 for a while again!!
Rags Mom,
Your situation and mine seem spookily similar…I too have been married for 11 years to a guy that is lovely but just doesn’t seem to notice me. I had an affair with a MM who was nine years my junior and lives in America (I’m UK). He claimed to have an abusive wife.
I fell crazy in love with my MM and was ready to leave my marriage, although honestly my MM treated me terribly. He was in total control, fast forwarded, blew hot and cold, blag blah blah. Still, I think it felt better to have rushes of love and pain than to be invisible as I am at home.
So in the end he decided he couldn’t leave because he was too scared about what others would think of him, even though she was allegedly abusive. He still says he will always love me and if he can ever do anything different he’ll come and find me.
I’m devastated for me, for my husband, for my loss, for everything. Like you I have a child and feel I have to give my marriage a shot for them, but I’m finding it so hard, grieving the loss makes it tough.
I know many will read this and think I deserve to be in pain because I had an affair, and I put myself through the mill too.
So Rags Mom, just thought you and I could share a few insights…
To Reeling: Don’t say that (“I know many will read this and think I deserve to be in pain because I had an affair”). That would be so heartless and narrow-minded, and if anybody ever says that to you just walk away.
You are being so hard on yourself, and besides having to shoulder the burden of a marriage that is not working (’cause that is the main point), you are punishing yourself by making the affair the worst sin commited on earth.
Wouldn’t it help you to find a good counselor? When there are such deep issues in a marriage it can be a relief to find somebody who consistently listens to and supports you. Very best wishes to you, V.
Oh V, thank you so much for not writing me off. It’s not really me that thinks an affair is the worst thing on earth, more afraid of the judgement of others, especially when OM would not leave his wife to be with me because he believed his whole family would ostracise him.
I’ve been seeing a counsellor since I started having an affair, but seem unable to get past the affair and really deal with me.
I know my marriage is a problem I must deal with, but I honestly just wonder if it’s all down to me – like I can’t deal with a drama free pain free relationship, like I find it boring or something. I’m frightened to act on my own in case I’ve made a mistake. With OM I felt braver, and with him I could have left and started again – although acknowledge it would not have worked due to issues I haven’t dealt with plus him being an AC (I live as brother and sister with my husband, but he claimed to be in love with us both and used this to justify toe curling behaviour like having fertility treatment with his wife while having an affair with me).
Right now I just feel like being alone, to heal. Having another go at my marriage feels like starting a new relationship and I’m so not ready for that. I’d like to work on my self esteem, get out and meet some new people, but I’m honestly afraid I’d meet a man who flattered me and I’d jump into an affair to run from my problems.
I’m a mess…
@reeling , wow that is beyond spooky …American ? 9 years younger ? …the only difference is that your OM was also MM …and of course , u guys actually had an affair…we didnt get that far last october before husband intervened …and then OM moved on and just stayed friends …I didnt leave my marriage either went borderline many times tho ….
How are you doing with NC ? Its hard but so neccesary , I dont think staying friends was a good idea for us , not saying thats the rule in every case tho ,…since our OM’s werent AC were they or even EU ? (how could we judge when we were unavailable as married women ourselves) …..
Wow just writing that, makes me see WHAT A MESSY situation it was, scary mess. how did things end between u and OM ? and has husband changed now ?
oh sorry, I just read your post again, I read it last nite at first – so your MM /OM was definitely AC then …mine was a real good friend , but yeah things got very messy and upsetting at the end ….I could see I didnt mean nearly as much to him at all as I thought I did ….I’m glad we went NC rather than have spoil the memories of the friendship we had in the beginning …we met for only a week when we had an office meet at his location …
@rags mom, yes, American and 9 years my junior. I wish I had been more restrained as you had, or do you i? Mmm, you know I’m not sure if I regret it completely because I did have a blissful three months – then followed by a strained three months, then three months from hell that now continues in his absence.
We spent 7 full weeks together 24/7 over the course of our 9 month affair, working on the same project at various global locations – all wildly romantic in way I suppose. In between it was hours of FaceTime each week day and email at weekends.
I didn’t realise he was an AC at first, I was blown very hot and fast forwarded. After 3 months I started to wonder where this guy had gone, and began to feel very very miserable about being the OW – it was never how I wanted my life to be.
Six months in we had what we both still describe as out best week together, it was amazing. When we came home we both felt it was too painful to be apart. My solution was for us to be together and his was that we had to part. If all had ended there it would have been for the best, but it didn’t…
I couldnt believe he wanted to finish things, and he did want to but wanted to keep things going as long as we could reasonably see each other – until the end of the project. I was distraught, and instead of walking away with my dignity intact I stuck in there and hoped that when it came to it he wouldn’t be able to leave me and we’d be together.
It was at this point I learned what an AC he was – having fertility treatment with his wife while still with me. Oh yes, and one day suggesting I join him at the clinic by FaceTime to help him out with tossing off to get his wife pregnant! My soul was screaming with revulsion, and I didn’t take part, but I still stayed and hoped.
Things were getting fraught between us and along the way he revealed his wife was abusive. Looking back you have to wonder whether this was a lie to make me feel sorry for him and not want to leave. I turned into arm chair psychologist then and tried to coach him into believing he deserved better ie me.
So at the end of Sept we had our last week together (which I wasn’t really keen on having because I didn’t feel I needed to travel to a different country to be dumped but was tied because of work). He finished with me as planned and we went our separate ways. While I did not want to be the OW at all anymore I did still want him, but more like I couldn’t believe how badly I’d effed up and wanted to believe he was my destiny.
NC has been extremely hard. He wanted to be friends but I couldn’t do it. The project finished so we didn’t have to work together everyday, but still do from time to time. The trouble is that if he travels somewhere or has a bad time at home he calls me and we both end up in tears. Or lately he’s developed a habit of going silent for ages, then sending a veiled email about work but not, then works an “I love you” from me, and then blanks me when I try and start a conversation. I’ve been trying to be totally NC over Xmas but cracked at New Year and have been left crushed by it.
So, not a happy story.
Hubby is still the same, he never notices me doing anything, so long as the dinner is cooked and the washing done then all is good. I remain invisible.
@rags mom. Sorry to you and all, I should say here I have posted as both Reeling and Colly. I was so frightened nobody would want to write back to Reeling because she/I had been unfaithful that I wrote as Colly too and omitted my infidelity. I blew my own cover above and I’m so glad I have, I feel better to have to whole me out there now. Sorry, never meant to deceive anyone, just frightened of my own shadow I guess.
Reeling Colly, you have my full sympathy, not condemnation.
I’m curious about your husband, because I think you’re right in identifying the marriage as the key relationship and the key problem here.
What made you choose him to marry? Has he always been this distant?
Hi Ethelreda,
Interesting questions about my husband and ones I do ponder. As far as his distance goes, I can’t work out whether he is just totally absent, or so very present, or maybe flips between the two depending on who he’s with and what he’s doing. I think I might have pushed him to be absent with me quite a lot of the time.
As for why I married him…When we started seeing each other I was feeling good and feeling good about being single – I think (I’d recently got burned from trying to return to the scene of a crime with an ex and when it hadn’t worked out and id walked away I was feeling lighter and happy with myself). Being with him was very very easy, no drama, but I did allow it to consume me and take away me. When I got married 3 years into our relationship I was happy to do it but it didn’t feel like the happiest day of my life as some people describe, more like what should happen and I wanted the attention off me quickly. That said, I did intend it to be forever and I did love him.
Over the years we forged different career paths, I became very successful and travelled a lot for work, and I think we just drifted apart. I had also grown up with long time married parents who showed no affection for each other or their children, so I think I ended up replicating my parental home.
One thing I do keep coming back to us whether I married him because he would have me. He was the first man who’d stuck around for more than 6 months, and he also wasn’t embroiled in drama like all my previous exes. Perhaps I married him for the right reasons but don’t know how to deal with someone who is available and/or not drama prone?
So hard to fathom. I feel so lost as me I don’t really know. I feel guilty just breathing at the moment, so hard to not take everything on myself.
I need you ladies to provide input if so, we might as well laugh at some the bizarre behavior we see. Have any of you found these EUM men told on to items that have your perfume (or in my case besides that my ex held on to a pillow that has my mascara from when id stay with him) ? I read somewhere this is common weird EUM behavior. These guys are so strange !!!
Yes, actually this is explained in “Men Who Can’t Love.” They hold on to things because “just in case” in the future they want to contact you and send out feelers to see if you’ll jump on board again, they have a “reason” to. My ex held on to my bike and a few other items. I really wanted the bike back, but had to harangue him for weeks about it.
@EyesWideOpen, sorry I totally misread your post! I thought you were talking about holding onto items you owned. As for the other stuff, yeah, my EUM did that in the beg of the relationship, he held on to panties of mine, I didn’t even know it until months later. Who knows on that one. Maybe they can bond with a pillow or panties better than with a human being! 🙂
I found the opposite with the ex eum he made sure I never ever left a single thing behind when leaving his place.
Once a necklace of mine broke and I must have lost the tiny clasp part I had no idea would have never missed it he called me and told me he had it I didn’t understand what he meant at the time and just said I would pick it up next time I was there.
Well when he showed me this tiny tiny clasp that was broken I said what good will that be throw it away.
After that incident he was even more vigilant that I had everything.
OMG! So bizarre. LOLZ. What a crazy man. He was probably worried another woman would find the clasp.
One time I left my tea cup at his place ( I had brought it because he doesn’t drink tea or coffee and just recently moved from another place so didn’t purchase much at that point for dishes etc. and I wanted to have my tea in the morning.). He rushed to bring it back as soon as possible. Perhaps he even met me up that evening just to get the cup back!!! It is so odd. Now, Diane you made me think perhaps he was cheating. I don’t care anymore. But truly their behavior is weird, whatever the reason…
Another story: I wanted to take an extra shower gel bottle he had. I really liked the smell but could never find it in the stores in my vicinity and it reminded me of him, so I asked if I could borrow one since he had an extra. He almost screamed “No way, you must be crazy!” Not out of greediness of course but because if I use the same shower gel, that’s too intimate. Wow.
One time I managed to talk to a girl that my exEUM was seeing behind my back. I found her and got in touch with her, she had no idea about me. But she said, “No wonder he was so eager that I take all of my cooking utensils home with me!” She had apparently gone to his apartment one evening and cooked him a dinner and when she left the next day he bundled them all up and, she said, practically pushed them on her as she left. I was like, yep, that’s so I wouldn’t see them.
But I also think it can be just a case of an emotionally unavailable person not wanting you to start thinking you share space or live there or have any rights to the apartment, etc. One day you leave a comb, the next you might be asking for a key.
Oh, and another story: One time when we were broken up he begged and begged to get back together. I finally agreed to meet him out for a drink but told him he needed to bring this face cream I had left at his place. It was very expensive and I wanted it back. I told him it was in a green bottle. Well, he shows up at the bar and I say “Did you bring my face cream?” and he gets this very self-satisfied look on his face and … brings out another girl’s face cream. yep, it was in a green bottle but was not mine! Well, that was the end of the evening. So no wonder these guys are paranoid about women leaving things behind!
That was my experience too, Incognito. I could not leave even a cotton ball and a liquid for makeup removal. Forget about any other personal items. One time he called me while I was driving home from his place, telling me about the items I forgot. Big deal, I said, I will pick up later. They are agitated and nervous about it. So odd. And another part is jumping off the bed right after sex and taking a shower immediately. Like it will stick to the guts or something. Weird things I never experienced with couple committed examples I did have.
As far as the subject of the topic: as always it is right where I am right now. It is nearing a year of the breakup and I feel I am doing well with occasional bumps and lows. But throughout these months I have learned to recognize that these down times become less frequent and the intensity diminishes with time, naturally. With every month, or every quarter, but the pain does fade. Maybe not fast enough, but it does. Holidays, for most of you, I am sure caused you some pain. But we survived. No contact sent or received. Those who did break NC, don’t beat yourself up. It’s just a part of the recovery and healing process. Next time you won’t because you wouldn’t even want to. As for people who say that you have to be over by now and moved on, distance from them and/or never raise the topic of your pain again. Confide in another person and if there is no such person, share it here. What I recently started understanding is that our values and boundaries are infringed upon too when someone tells us how we should feel or not feel. I have been building my self-esteem from the scratch for several months and come to the point where others’ opinions about how I should live and feel don’t affect me. These are our lives to live and it’s nobody’s business to tell us that we should be healed and recovered by now. Everyone has her/his time frame. As time goes by we feel better and stronger in the recovery process, so we have less need or no need at all to express our continuing pain moving on. So at some point we can deal with it on our own. That’s another thing that I learned that I can manage now with dealing with my feelings myself. I don’t need to pour them out and seek for validation from others all the time like I used to do all my life (with close people). I feel so much more stable on my own and can sit with my own feelings and thoughts. So it’s only up to you to know and feel that you are moved on. It is nobody’s business. That’s my take on it.
Correction to the above- hold on to items *
I have been trying so hard to bounce back with new boundaries, self esteem, etc. My AC told me two months ago we shouldn’t talk until the New Year at least. Said it was “best for us both.” I started NC after that, and of course he’s calling me up at 3am New Year’s Eve. I did reverse number search to verify it was him. Who does he think he is? I’m trying to stick to my guns cuz I know I won’t ever bounce back if I respond. I almost hate him for feeling so entitled. But NC is giving me back my power. I am numb and feel like I’ll never love again. It’s been almost as long as we’ve been apart as when we were together. Why oh why does he want to be able to hit me up whenever. I will no longer cater to his flip flapping ways. It’s such a disappointment. His character is so shifty. I’m so comfortably numb now though. Even if I did talk to him, there’s nothing for me to say. Happy New Year; sigh.
Eyes Wide Open, I’m not sure if this is EUM behaviour, but my ex MM used to have me wear a silk pocket handkerchief about my person for a while so he could take it away and breathe me in when I wasn’t around. He also had a box with a lock of my hair in it. Perhaps it’s about romantic fantasy and longing…that it’s preferable to having the real person with you all the time if you’re an EUM?
The other behaviour I noticed was jumping straight up after sex, like cuddling and being intimate afterwards would burn or something.
Perfect timing and spot-on as usual. My husband that I have been in a very long process of divorcing just moved back to Japan permanently on Boxing Day (one week ago). While I had been looking forward to that moment with an eagerness approaching mania and had a long, detailed, written timeline of all the things I was going to do as soon as I dropped him off at the airport, I just had a total meltdown instead. Having completely failed to force myself to begin the massive clean-up/ restoration project on my home and life that day, I made a commitment to myself that I was going to break with my erstwhile pattern of burying myself in whatever-project so I could shut down emotionally and drown out the pain, and this time I was going to proceed at a pace that allowed me to grieve the loss and process it properly.
At the very end of last weekend I managed to begin purging my ex’s huge hoard of CDs (a major flashpoint in our relationship) and ran a load of clutter to the e-waste/donation center, but all I got for my trouble was to wake up with a nightmare that night that I had done something horribly wrong in purging the CDs, and I haven’t been able to do anything since then. Today I finally figured out the reason why: I am overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the mess I am faced with and the circular problems it poses, and I really resent that I have to spend a holiday dealing with squalor (something I have a visceral detestation of) after having spent my ENTIRE SUMMER ridding my home of it while my husband was back in Japan working a seasonal job, but after PigPen the Hoarder was back here for 2 ½ months the house is once again caked with filth. It just makes me want to run out the door and down the street screaming my head off until I get hit by a fucking car.
While it seems risibly absurd to me to just sit here in the middle of this god-awful pigsty I have just spent this entire day off avoiding dealing with, placidly sipping a glass of leftover Veuve Clicquot and dizzle-fritzing about on the internet, I guess it’s somehow consistent with the commitment I made to allow myself to process this thing. I am taking my moment to just “be”.
@Brenda K “While it seems risibly absurd to me to just sit here in the middle of this god-awful pigsty I have just spent this entire day off avoiding dealing with, placidly sipping a glass of leftover Veuve Clicquot and dizzle-fritzing about on the internet, I guess it’s somehow consistent with the commitment I made to allow myself to process this thing.”
If you’re not a writer, you should be.
At least you are rid of him and once you get rid of the crap, it won’t pile up again since he’s done. Gross! Good luck!
Felt like taking out my old copy of ‘hes just not that into you…’ from obscurity and thumbing thru …Greg (the guy who wrote on sex and the city and authored this book) confirms a lot of what Nat is telling us abt ACs and men in general, ….confirmed to me this (but i already knew of course) = OM was just not that into me ; husband was never that into me…haha, almost 36 and never had a guy into me, BECAUSE i chased the ones that werent ….and didnt have time for the ones that were ….
rags mom, exactly what I think. The guys who were into me were normal guys (including my ex-husband with whom I broke up and pushed for divorce). Available, caring and loving. The guys who were not into me were ACs or EUs. And so was I. AC and EU to them, to good people and to myself. The recovery continues.
Hello, can anyone give me their thoughts on why my ex would email me over a year and a half after we split up, apologising for the ‘clumsy’ way he ended things…? We went out together for 2 years and I think my self-esteem was slowly chipped away at during that time, although I really had thought he was the love of my life. I did have a particularly challenging time during our relationship due to family death, moving house and mother’s alzheimer’s, which could of course have contributed to my confidence and self-esteem. When we broke up it was after I’d raised the issue (again) of feeling there was no proper partnership or togetherness on his part and he ended things with no emotion. He had always lacked empathy but, on reflection, I suppose I’d overlooked it, thinking it was just a dry sense of humour, who knows. Anyway it took me ages to process it all and now he’s ‘sorry for the clumsy way he ended things’ nearly 2 years on. I don’t want to start thinking about him again, so any advice would be gladly received. Big thanks.
Sarah Elle,
I am sorry he resurfaced. I can only imagine how it hurts after 1,5 year of healing and getting the insensitive “clumsy way he ended things” out of the blue. He followed up clumsily as well, which he should have not. If he feels he needs to apologize, he needs to check with you if you want to talk, if there is a good time to talk in phone or in person, which is better, if he needs to apologize, and IF you need his apology first of all. This is really awkward and I really feel your pain. I haven’t experienced the come back of my ex. I don’t think I will. I realized now I will never hear from him and receive no apology and I finally, thanks to God, reconciled with my peace. However, I did have some troubling thoughts what if he comes back (e-mail or text contact I mean), I don’t want to hurt. I let go and I don’t need his apology. It will only complicate things and reverse everything back. I have already forgiven him.
Your post resonates with me very much. I can relate to no empathy expressions. Dry humor. Oh yes. Lots of sarcasm. And no support or very little in any kind of life situations throughout our one year together. And he broke up after I pressed the issue that this kind of permanent dating after a year is not working for me. I am in my nearing late 30s, a mom, and I want a serious stable relationship. He broke up after that “pressure.” And mind you 3 weeks before he had told me he loved me and we would be together.
What else did he say? Did he want to meet in person and talk? Just one sentence is really odd. Even if he is sorry. If I am sorry and want to apologize I would first ask the person if there is a good time to talk and meet if possible. And then talk live in person.
Do you need his apology? It doesn’t matter what he wants. How do you feel? Have you been waiting for his apology? Do you feel you need the apology to move on? I had the most important issue in my life, which I discussed on this board and don’t want to bring up right now…, which I thought I could not move on until he apologizes. But I moved on with God’s help. Yet somehow and somewhere… I feel I wish he told me he is sorry for all the hurt and pain that I had gone through. Seems like I would like to depart with him with peace and love finally. Yet I feel strong that I know I can live without his apology. I have forgiven him and when it’s not enough sometimes I keep forgiving him again.
Let us know what else he said in that e-mail and what your feelings are about it. After 1,5 years maybe seeing him for what he is and hearing an apology could be like a closure to you. This is not recommended for those soon after the breakup. But after some time goes by… Even then. It depends on the situation. Some more info is needed to understand your situation.
Sofia, thanks so much for your response. It is so interesting what you say. Btw I too am a mum, although a little older than you (47) and ex is a couple of years older than me. In the email he said he knew it was out of the blue, but he’d seen me online and wanted to apologise for the clumsy way he’d ended things with me and that he hoped I was ok now… He also said he hoped everything was good in my world! I can see it is completely arrogant, especially the hoping I’m ok ‘now’ bit! I have since taken my profile down as forgot it was up there.
In answer to your question, I have to say I had never hoped for an apology. I have moved forward with huge difficulty, going through the stages of loss and grief (which I think were combined with my Dad’s death and other big life traumas). What I really wanted was not an apology but some flicker of loss on his part, as we had shared some hugely funny and passionate times and made plans for the future. His mum and dad even wrote to me saying how sad they were, but he never expressed any sadness himself and that was what really bothered me. What was completely insensitive at the time of the break up on his part, and shows lack of any empathy, emotion or even a pulse I reckon … was that we had flights booked three months after we split, taking his friends and their kids to my family’s villa. He could have taken his friends anywhere else in the Algarve as a result of the break up, but he still went to the same complex even knowing I was going there. He had contacted me a few times after the split emotionlessly too, acting like we’d always been friends, and just prior to the holiday he was a complete baffoon emailing me ‘happy days’ about the impending holiday and that he may see me at the airport and so on…. He also contacted me the first Christmas after we broke up to wish me and my daughter well, and now this email.
I honestly feel ok (just perplexed about his email this far down the road) and I believe you will get to this point too, with or without an apology. I have to tell you I replied to his email saying that it was weird seeing his name in my inbox, that I had been very broken up at the time esp with all the other sad things going on, that I had thought about him for a long time afterwards but that I then accepted we wanted different things. I know it’s boosting his ego but it’s also telling him I’ve processed everything and moved on. What do you think? If I had just deleted the email it that might have niggled away at me, so I thought best to reply honestly and openly, true to myself. I think even more now that he is an ineffectual man, narcissistic and self-centred, who masquerades as caring (he works in the medical world). His ego is so very fragile, any little dent will have him questioning himself so it is karma and retribution in itself him having to live like that. He was always trying to be ‘edgy’ and ‘cool’ – at his age I ask you…… and one who has to try to be edgy, certainly isn’t!! The best thing for me now is that I am not being insidiously undermined and am getting my inner strength back. x
Sarah Elle, well done for coming so far, and I feel inspired that there can be peace without answers and everything making sense.
Sarah Elle, if the ex ( I keep trying avoiding saying “my” or “mine”) contacted, I am confident he would say the same thing along those lines, “hope all is good in your life and you are ok now.” Arrogance. Lack of empathy. Not understanding or wanting to understand the necessity to stay away. Or if they do contact: to present themselves and explain on other terms. Not with some clumsy email. Selfish. He just wanted an ego stroke, for one, and also feeling guilty maybe. They don’t get it: if they don’t have anything to say or offer (not like we need it anyway), they should stay away. These text/emails crumbs are so annoying and intrusive and distracting to say the least. Either say something meaningful or don’t say anything at all. The latter is better.
I understand you had a need to respond for your own sake. Not for him. I honestly don’t know how I would react if the ex contacted me in a similar manner.
I do know though after 3 times when he contacted me last year and I responded I felt a temporary high but then very low and back to square one kind of feeling. So it’s best not even say anything, but if you felt like you had to say it, that was what you needed. I would say don’t engage in any communication with him anymore. Such a waste of emotions and time.
Oh and, “He had contacted me a few times after the split emotionlessly too, acting like we’d always been friends” – sounds like the ex too. And when he contacted me he never mentioned my daughter.
They are just waste in our lives. Press forward.
Thanks Sofia, it is true he was after an ego stroke and I do think he was trying to assuage his guilt, but why after a year and a half. Most odd. I partly wish I hadn’t emailed him now but I was feeling v vulnerable that day because of the seriousness of my Mum’s disease. I don’t want to have regrets though as I did what I felt was right at the time, despite many times having wanted an opportunity to tell him what I really thought, I got another one and blew it with honesty. Oh well. I did end my email by saying I wished him well and to pass on my best to his parents…so he must have known that was end of story. Incidentally, he responded, saying he was sorry to hear about my Mum and he hoped I could get some respite and that he was off out shopping now…..wtf! You’re right with the crumbs being intrusive though, as it has bothered me. I definitely won’t respond again as I do feel a bit set back, but I’m determined not to give him that power to control my feelings. I never initiated any contact after the break-up, he always did. I have a backbone of steel when I want to and I’m sure that surprised him, haha. I have however always responded to him contacting me – well no more, for god’s sake it’s nearly two years in May. Your ex sounds just like mine. Absolute waste and surplus to requirements. How are you feeling today?
Sarah Elle, I just wanted to add that my self-esteem had been slowly chipped away at for a year and ruined. I had never had anything like this happen to me in my entire life. I have been picking up pieces throughout the entire 2014. I am better now but working on it. I hope you are better too, as far as self-esteem goes, anyway.
I meant to say that it is hideous when self-esteem is eroded – but it will come back. If it is any help I started regaining this by no more self-blame, focusing on my strengths and by not pushing feelings to the side, but processing them and allowing myself to accept and adjust and ‘being nice to myself’ – it sounds corny. I’ve also worked a lot on ‘letting things go’ without getting any answers. It’s hard but liberating.
Sarah Elle, great advice. That’s what I have been doing too. Being compassionate with myself and learning to let things go. Just be it.
My advice would be to just ignore him. You’re under no obligation to either absolve him of his guilt (if he has any) or make him feel better about himself or give him an ego boost. Protect yourself and your own hard-won peace of mind. Also, read this https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/when-you-wonder-why-they-stay-with-you-or-keep-coming-back-when-they-dont-want-the-relationship-you-want/
Thank you Diane. I did however reply to say that I was very broken up at the time but I processed and accepted it. Hopefully that has not absolved him of his guilt (although it probably has) but it may make him realise that time’s moved on. I don’t believe he’s suddenly got any emotions though or that he feels sad about our demise. He’s probably been ditched by someone else. The arrogance of hoping I’m ok ‘now’ just reinforces his true colours. I definitely won’t respond to any more contacts and will read the link, thanks again.
Honestly Sarah Elle, probably bored, weighted by the expectations of a New Year, and thought he would just have a quick fish to see if you’d give him some attention.
A lack of empathy is a character trait so I wouldn’t expect someone to develop any over time. My ex MM/OM/AC was lacking in empathy, and actually used to admit to me how he felt no empathy for his wife when she would call him at work to moan about something. He said he would just give the programmed responses expected of him. Yet he calls this love!
He shows no empathy for me now when he sends a fishing email and this is what your ex is doing. Sending a random email and invading someone’s life after telling them you no longer want to be with them is a splendid display of lack of empathy. Press delete and move on, you deserve better.
It is so true about the lack of empathy being a trait. I did email back however, for my sake not his, and now I’m done. He is an ineffectual individual that I can clearly see (after all the pain and heartache). Any future contact will not be responded to. Thanks for your support and the link, I will read it now. I am so glad I found this site, it’s brilliant.
Sarah Elle,
Read Nat’s article (When Your Ex Returns Again…) below with following insert included “What it is a sign of, is that when they go through their mental Roladex of who is most likely to still hold them in high regard because they’re living in the past, they think of you. They tend to get in touch after they’ve hurt someone else, so that you can pump them up and give them a clean bill of health, like “Look, I’m not that bad! My ex who I’ve effed over a few times will still give me the time of day!” Then they launch themselves into their next relationship…”
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/when-your-ex-returns-again-its-an-opportunity-to-do-right-by-you/
Take wise advice given by yourself of not wanting to think of him by deleting email and blocking all future incoming communication. Karma has served him well as I am sure subsequent relationships (after you) have not been great so ‘tail between leg/cap in hand’ approach he is trying. Plus he left during your most vulnerable with family death, mum’s illness, and moving house…didn’t even hang around as a supportive friend as least.
Keep the no contact going as the rather clumsy apology/contact from him nearly two years later is totally unacceptable. He simply can’t leave and return anytime he wants.
Thanks Gina, I will read the link through. I did however email him back saying that I had been very broken up at the time, especially combined with all the other sad things going on, but that I have processed everything and accepted we wanted different things. I know it’s probably boosted his ego but it’s also told him I’ve moved on, although he probably won’t ‘get’ this concept due to his arrogance. I will not respond to any more contact. I thought by being true to myself and transparent with him in response, it solidifies my recovery (to me). He has definitely got the largest but most fragile ego, which is retribution/karma in itself. As you say, he left during life traumas when I was very vulnerable so I’m sure karma will come back to bite him along those lines too. And he probably has either just been dumped or dumped someone else. Roll on 2015. x
I watched true crime program recently about con artist who scammed many women out of their affection, time and money. One woman reported him for fraud after he’d stolen money from her (for the plane ticket) to fly to another country to propose to another woman with the victim’s diamond ring (he’d stolen from her). He’d met this other woman while chatting to her on victim’s laptop. Anyway, even though the victim cancelled all her stolen credit cards the police asked her for cooperation because they were certain the fraudster would get in contact with the victim again. Their explanation? Fraudsters ALWAYS get back in touch to see if there is more they can scam out of their victims (sure tv fraudster did and got arrested – the police said he was so suave and persuasive that he fooled them for few moments even though they knew what he’d done).
To sum up, EUMs are con artists who can fool even fully trained professionals even after all facts are of their scams are evident. Con artists always go back to their victims to see if they can scam them for more affection, ego strokes, armchair counselling sessions, sex, time etc. Your con artist also wants reassurance that he isn’t such a bad guy as his past actions demonstrate. It’s less of a problem how he ended things than not being there for you when you were going through very, very difficult time which he now considers as merely ‘clumsy’. If you can’t count on those closest to you when you’re going through s##t then you don’t need these people at all. Keep reading these posts (Nat has several on exactly the question you’re asking) and my advice is that you don’t engage with your ex in any way. Don’t answer and don’t buy into his ‘apology’. As you said you don’t want to think about him and he doesn’t deserve any more of your time and/ or effort.
@Mephista, LOVE that analogy. Clears so much of their inscrutable behavior up!
My thoughts?
a) He’s in therapy, and has been told he needs to apologise for some of the shitty things he’s done.
b) He’s newly single and has been dumped himself, and suddenly realises how it feels, and is also putting out feelers for you again. RUN AWAY. SILENCE. DO NOT RESPOND.
Aw, @rags mom, don’t be too hard on yourself. Sounds like your OM was totally into you when he thought it was a possibility, no? And with respect to hubby, I know you are married and have a kid, but if you don’t think he’s that into you, that’s got to be a tough way to live. What made you decide to get back together/stay together?
Hi Leanne, I missed this post earlier, will send you a reply tommorrow, been too long a day today, but another good day in the journey ….
@colly / reeling, Dont worry about what others on here will think of you, some may not relate to your story as much as others, but we are here hoping to heal faster , not looking to win a popularity contest, dont worry about all that other stuff right now dear C, focus on yourself. worrying about others all the time sometimes is a cause for many an explosion of self later in life.
So many aspects of your story that I want to talk about – your husband and you live as brother and siser ???? this maybe be the one that struck out the most ….Colly, you need to , as I have, focus on fixing what was wrong with the marriage or even if it is fixable, …..only after u have decided it is unfixable, and taken those scary (seems like now, wont once you start staying cool and calm) steps to free urself of the marriage can u consider the possibilities with the other man or someone else out there ….do u still love ur husband or are u in the marriage just for the kids ….
also just a little curious, how old was ur OM, 20s , 30s ? doesnt seem like the 9 year age gap was an issue at all ?
@colly, hope you come on here everyday and post your updates, I’m very interested in knowing how ur coping and getting thru, I shall keep talking here as well and hope it helps u….
I left the job where OM was in the same team as me , albeit diff locations as u know ….I left in July and I was in shock for 3 or 4 months for how dependant I had gotten on the daily contact with him, the false security of being colleagues (which creates an illusions that he is ‘there for me’ everyday, when in reality he was coming into work everyday is all)…..
I was very attracted to him and he blew hot about the first 3 or 4 months, but after my husbands threatening call/s to him, he friendzoned me (drama, drama, drama, …after 10 years of a relatively quiet good girl life, maybe ur right and we enjoyed the drama to some extent, but I do remember also being in a lot of pain regardless…)
Anyway, I asked husband for divorce for many times in that one year that I worked there …..but Im glad now that he insisted we try working things out, for my sons sake and also the way I was trying to leave the marriage was so wrong and disrespectful to me and husband and son ….I wasnt being a grown up at all about handling things in a mature way….
Sadly, I probably would have left if OM had wanted a future with me, he said he didnt want to break up the marriage at first , but later also admitted the age gap (him being in mid twenties to me in mid thirties) was a deterrent, …I knew it would be of course always, but in the beginning he sounded like it didnt matter ….and I got carried away I guess…
@rags mom, thank you so much, I will keep writing, just putting it out there is a help. A consequence of having an affair is that it’s all secret, so all the pain must be kept a secret and that is very very tough.
The age gap was never a problem, I’m a very young looking 40 and OM was 31. We were at similar stages in life, me having a 2yr old and him having two kids of 3 and 5. Our upbringings were very similar and we carry the same hang ups, so in many ways it was like looking in a mirror. The fact that we loved what was in front of us too was quite a boost for a while. In the end he seemed to suck up the power of that and use it to tackle his marriage (although he said he had to give his wife a chance to change – which we all know is a blind alley), and I just ended up a jibbering wreck as I couldn’t stand to be the OW and just wanted him to be with me – even though he was an AC.
Work will be OK in the end as we only came together through working on a cross functional project and are not on the same team. At some point I’ll have to visit the location he works as I have a team there but I should manage to avoid since they are in a different building.
I’ve been puzzling over what went wrong with my marriage, it feels like we just drifted apart. If I look at us we seem like my EU parents in their 45 year marriage. There is little affection in a true partnership sense. My husband is a lovely guy, he’s a great father, and we enjoy a lot of the same things, but there is no spark and he doesn’t get talking about feelings – we actually joke sometimes he doesn’t have any and that he cries on the inside. I want to work on my marriage but feel unable to move on it, the pain of my ex OM just stops me in my tracks. I’m starting Nat’s self esteem course on Monday to try and focus on me some more to help me get past this block.
Your husband definitely sounds worth a shot, he noticed and he fought for you, sounds wonderful to be valued that way.
Thanks rags mom, let’s keep talking.
Colly, thats great that you are taking the course, I really want to too, but husband will of course see the charge and I dont want a big conversation over am I over the past 18 months or not ….I guess in some ways getting over things should be easier for you since husband never knew , I dont know ….
thats very interesting abt the age gap not being a problem…we were 34 and 25 when we met, but in very very different stages of life , made the age gap seem more apparent after the first 4 months ….
Rags mom, that’s a shame you think you couldn’t make it – could you ask a friend to pay for you and give them the cash? Or maybe just tell your husband it’s something you need to do for the both of you?
Probably another sign of my chronic EU, but other than owning a house together all our money is in separate accounts! I think I’ll always be that way though as I don’t think I could trust someone else with my security.
I did notice the age gap at times, mostly funny things about growing up in a different decade, and occasionally he would show naievity about people and emotions, but other than that it was fine.
How are things with your husband? Something is keeping you tuned into the OM and I just wondered what was causing it?
Sorry @rags mom, I meant to add that I love my husband, but I’m not in love with him – that’s the best way I can describe it. Having said that I’m not sure whether that it’s just something with me that can’t identify being in love unless I have a dose of pain and anxiety with it, or highs and lows I guess. My husband was the first man I didn’t have to chase down and work hard to hold onto, and I’m not sure I know how to deal with a grown up relationship. That said, I didn’t get to this point in my relationship alone, and he must have contributed to me feeling starved of affection and loving interest…but the maybe I just starved myself.
@Leanne, hope u are doing okay ….
Hi ladies, made it through day 16! Feeling good but I was so up and down today. I’ve been reading Nats articles and reading your comments and it has been totally enlightening. I really do want out of this, but I also can’t stop thinking about MM.
I am SO nervous for Monday 🙁 I really do want this to be over. I need to move on with my life and I can’t do that with MM around. I know MM is going to try to stop by next week or is going to email. Should I email him in advance and say not to? I know I asked this before but maybe it would be best to lay it out there.. That I can’t see or talk to him anymore. I don’t want to add emotional fuel to this guy’s ego, but I don’t want him coming by. It is going to set me back or suck me back in. Not to cheating, but I can tell that even just talking to him is so killer tough for me. Help! I read Nat’s article on breaking up with a MM that you work with. Should I just continue to be silent and avoid him, or lay it out there and tell him not to make contact anymore??
Leanne, I’ll re-send what I put on the last post since you might have missed it: Leanne, I had to work with an ex who hurt me badly and I did everything I could to avoid him. We never had a discussion about it and I simply ignored him in every way possible. I had projects that needed his input, but I managed to figure out ways to do them on my own. I was so proud! I too was quietly NC and trying to keep my dignity – I figured eventually he would get the hint and leave me alone, but that took some time. Being a clueless idiot, he kept dropping in the office, or he’d call me on the phone about some work item, big smile when we’d pass in the hall. He was blithely going on like nothing had happened; I was tense and miserable anytime we had interaction. I was proud of how much NC I could accomplish, but looking back, if I had to do it again, I would definitely have sent a nice, polite but firm note right at the beginning that said something like “under the circumstances, it would be best for us to have as little contact as possible. I’m sure that whatever contact we need to have for work purposes can be handled through email.” No ambiguity, no hidden agenda, no secretly hoping it would change him, change the situation. You’re telling him to leave you alone in no uncertain terms.
So I recommend in your situation to make things as clear as possible as soon as possible. Why should you have to endure days of being miserable until he “gets the hint”? Forget the hinting – be clear and claim your power!
A couple more thoughts… I advise being active and setting your boundaries immediately instead of waiting for him to “get it.” Why should you be on his timetable? Having said that, the ONLY way (and I can’t emphasize ONLY enough), this will work is if you send him a “stay-away” email as a way to assert yourself and NOT as a secret wish to get him to do or think anything, or care what he thinks of you as a result, or to keep you feeling some kind of faux connection. Then it’s doomed. You have to be very clear in your mind about this. If you send him a final email, it has to be short and sweet and professional. You do NOT have to bare your heart or explain ANYTHING. You just make it clear what kind of contact you will permit, if you have to have some contact for work purposes. DO NOT RESPOND to anything he sends. If he shows up in your office say, “I thought I made myself clear. I do not want to see you.” Not nasty, not angry, not emotional, not vulnerable and definitely not explaining yourself or getting drawn into discussion. Just calm, poised, and firm. You can fall apart later, and you probably will at first. But it DOES get better, I promise! If you can do all this, you have no idea how empowered you will be!! It may be best to get another job, and it definitely helped me to be able to transfer to another building to get away from the ex. But in the meantime, there you are. How do you want to handle these days coming up? Waiting for him to get a hint? It took a LONG time for my idiot ex to get the hint, which caused me a lot of unnecessary suffering. As I said, if I could do it again, I definitely would have established my boundaries immediately and I think he would have respected them.
Leanne- First of all, breathe! 🙂 A few blog posts back, someone brought up the term, “womanspaining”. I can’t remember if it means the same thing as Natalie ‘ s “Women Who Talk Too Much”. Basically, we women want to talk about everything going on inside us but men are just hearing babbling. I would E-mail him to have physical evidence to show if it comes to that. Keep your E-mail short and sweet. You know, something like, “There is no need for us to visit each other’s offices as we were. Any business we need to discuss can be handled through E-mail.” (Well, that was a poor example, But YOU Get The point. 😉 )
I mean, E-mail to have physical evidence to show HR should you need to report him for harassment.
hey glad to hear uve almost made it to day 18 …I dont have major advice for monday that I havent already said yet, but keep us posted !!
Hey BR readers, I’m looking for some tips on how to stop obsessive thinking. I’m plagued, I wake in the night thinking about my ex, lie in bed in the morning thinking about my ex, think about him constantly through the day, and the more I tell myself not to the more I keep doing it. I tell myself he’s not worth my thought, read my list of reminders for staying NC, then just seen to lose patience with myself and beat myself up for not being able to stop. I’ve tried staying busy, but I still think, or if I stop obsessing I worry I’m avoiding my feelings.
Help please???
Colly
There’s something called “though stopping” where every time you fantasize, think about the dude, you cut it off, go do something else. Dunno where and how you live, but getting outside, going to the gym,pyshing yourself to the max helps a lot. Not only stay NC, but don’t be anywhere you and he were. Meet new, functional folk, not in bars, go to, do different things, learn new skills. He is going to constipate your brain for awhile.
Sorry about the typos; that’s “thought stopping”.
Reeling Colly- Obsessing over him may be a sign of an emotional need going unmet. You mentioned that you’re in a marriage where you feel invisible. When I obsess, it’s usually when I’m feeling depleted and stressed, seeing myself as “useable” but not lovable. IOW, I felt invisible to the world. The guy in my head was just a representative of that.
What I didn’t know was that I was really being invisible to myself. See, I grew up being told that I was ugly, fat, & stupid. I’m no longer fat and I know I’m smart but still had trouble seeing my good physical features. Thus, still saw myself as having “sex appeal” but not being “pretty”. What I now realize is that saying I have sex appeal but am not pretty is saying that I’m useable. What an awful thing to think of myself!
This realization came fairly recently when I was looking at a photo of myself and noticed that, yes, I do have a pretty smile and gorgeous hair. I have a nice figure and look young for my age. I like who I am and really no longer have the desire to prove myself to the guy or the world. I don’t need to be “seen” anymore. Lo and behold, obsessive thoughts have rapidly dissipated.
This is a long winded way of asking what need in yourself are you neglecting/aren’t recognizing as this may be the key to the obsession?
@Reeling Colly
NC is essential. Also, ssk yourself what exactly you are obsessing about. Is it really your ex? Was he that great? I highly doubt. Is it just male companionship/someone in your life that you are missing?
Make a list of his positive and negative qualities (objectively!). Nowadays I try to start doing it from the very beginning of the relationship, when there is no rose colored glasses and revisit thses notes regularly to add new points. It comes in handy in case of a breakup and in general to see the man for what he is.
Maybe the break up triggered old abandonment issues in you that you need to work on. Maybe it is just your insecurities talking, and you know we want things more if we cant have them. Think of him as a very bad and dangerous drug that is poisoning and ruining your body and mind. Dont shoot up any more…Allow yourself some time to think about him and the relationship and accept it for what it is. Do not read more into it and think about what it could be. See it for what IT IS NOW. Then try to think of him less and less. You can also read on addiction and how to overcome it if you feel you have too frequent obsessive thought patterns.
And watch this video several times a day, repeat the words out loud, it helped me a lot, very powerful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pketb6gxR3w
Hope I could help a bit! x
@ Reeling Colly,
Sounds like you need to deal with the ‘real’ issue. Is the real issue the condition of your marriage? Not to invalidate the situation with the other guy, but what were you look to fill/escape from emotionally/physically with this other guy?
It took me more than a decade to process family traumas – lots of counselling and a whole load of mistakes and dramas out of being EU and having low self esteem. Other people in the family settled down seemingly with little effort and found long-term partners and financial stability, though they certainly have struggles with the past and lasting issues. I’ve had a more bohemian lifestyle, which has its pleasures but also doesn’t really feel like a choice – marriage, kids and mortgage have never seemed like options to me.
I am very thankful to the partners who support my relatives and want nothing but happiness for them, still I wonder, after I’ve put in all this work, is there some kind of delayed gratification? Will I eventually settle down and have a deep kind of happiness and stability from earning it and knowing exactly what I want? I have mixed feelings about this, I really don’t know. I have plenty to be grateful for in the present, but also hope I’m investing in something for the future.
happy b, First of all, great for you for putting in the hard work and effort and dedication to process your trauma! This is no small feat, many people spend their whole lives mired in the pain and living out old roles assigned to them.
“Other people in the family settled down seemingly with little effort and found long-term partners and financial stability, though they certainly have struggles with the past and lasting issues”. I think the key here is *seemingly*. So it appears all is well, but we are privy to what’s happening behind closed doors and in their heads! I’m not sure how old you are, but often people can hide/cover up their issues for a long time…and then they can’t.
The beauty of standing where you are is the freedom to choose! I’m not sure what you mean by “marriage, kids and mortgage have never seemed like options to me”. Do you want to settle down and have a family? If so, of course they’re options for you! Now that you’ve processed your past you’re in the best place to attract a great partner.
I think trying to come up with what we want, what will make us happy, is one of the hardest things to figure out when we have so many choices. I go for what I feel most passionate about; what I get excited about; what I lose track of time doing/thinking about.
You’ve made a great investment in yourself, your peace, your happiness, I can’t imagine a greater investment!
happy b, you say “I am very thankful to the partners who support my relatives and want nothing but happiness for them, still I wonder, after I’ve put in all this work, is there some kind of delayed gratification?”
in my opinion this is a really odd sentence which seems to suggest that you are identified with those partners too: do *you* keep supporting your relatives? does that cost you a lot of energy? is that a lot of work for you? If so, I suggest you stop spending your energies and time for those people and put them into building a life that fits you better, ’cause the “bohemian lifestyle has its pleasures but also doesn’t really feel like a choice” (any more, i say). Go and get what you like. It would seem that it is the ‘forbidden fruit’ of “marriage, kids and mortgage” or “long-term partners and financial stability” for you. Take care, V.
Veracity, V.
I suppose my line of thinking is, they get to have supportive partners and families and I don’t, and that feels unfair – BUT if they lost those partners, I’m not sure how well they’d cope on their own so it would cause me some extra anxiety. So to answer V.’s question, my energy has all gone into building my own life in recent years, but I’d fear disaster if they lost their foundation. Wow that says a lot about my family, and my carer mentality!
Very true, and I thought it soon after posting, that I have actually made choices. I could have stayed in a job that I hated and probably would then have settled down by now (and it would almost certainly be a co-dependent relationship or flawed in some other way, given my scars), but chose to follow my interests instead and put those first. I made a very conscious decision to build a life doing something I love, even if it took me 10 years to be comfortable and stable. In this time I was emotionally unavailable and set back my recovery with an AC. And now I do have a stable job and emotional availability, a bit more than 10 years later, so those forbidden fruits (it feels that way, V.!) should come next.
Thanks so much to both of you, there is no doubt really that my investment is worth it, whatever happens in the future. I am alone, overworked, cold and fluey, but that foundation (or ‘blanket’) of peace, truth and inner security is with me. Happy 2015 to both of you!
Oh wow, V.!
*smile*. yes, Happy 2015 to both of you too
Thanks for another great read Natalie! My bf broke up with me just before the holidays, mid-december. Im in my early thirties now and it was obviously not my first break up, but was devastating because it came out of the blue. Even my friends were shocked. So for the first time in my life I decided not to try to ask him questions as to why or remind him how great we have been together and not ask for validation but just said goodbye and the following day I turned my phone off. I logged out of fb and all other social media on my computer also and was only checking emails sporadically during the holidays. It was soo hard but so worth it!
After a few days I stopped looking at my phone waiting for a message from him bc I knew it would not be coming, bc it cant. For the first time in my life I was trying to process the pain on my own, not anaesthetise it with fb post, validation from other people, drinking, partying, or initiating contact with other men (or exes) for ego strokes. I didnt want any distraction from my pain. I decided to be with my pain and go through the whole process of letting go on my own.
In the past I could only handle breakups and forget about my exes when I started dating again or found a new love interest. I needed another man in my life to completely get over an ex, I was never on my own longer than a few months. This time, I really wanted to do it on my own, I want to live through the pain and be free in the end. Free of this need for a man, a love interest, male attention and love. I must tell you that it has been one of the hardest 20 days of my life (and still counting). I have been keeping a diary of my feelings, read lots of BR, meditated, watched movies and talked to friends and family.
Also, I kept asking myself out loud questions (several times a day as often as possible) such as “What are you feeling right now?” “What makes you feel like this?” “Why are you afraid?” “Why are you anxious?” “What are you scared of?” “Why are you angry?” “Why are you crying?” and I was trying to honestly answer these questions to myself out loud.
It was a great practice, very powerful and a very shocking experience bc first I could not answer these above questions…I didnt know why I was in pain and why I would miss someone who rejected me. But every day it got better and better and cried less and less and was more and more aware of my pain and why I feel the way I feel. I think that I have known myself and my feelings better and learned to look inside me for answers and not avoid my feelings and cover my pain with people, objects or substances.
So yes, we need to be with our pain, accept and embrace it, get to know it, bc these are growing pains and yes, we do get stronger if we really live through them. xxx
@reeling – I’m feeling your pain.
It’s been 15 days of NC and I’m stuck…almost five months since the breakup (I did the breaking up) and I’m so stuck. I feel OK one moment and the next, I’m miserable. I realize the holidays have not helped, but neither has he.
This is my first post so I apologize in advance for the length.
The breakup was inevitable. He is classic EUM and I knew this, but I ran to this relationship after leaving another (another unavailable man, this one married) as I felt the last relationship had been this tumultuous love affair and I couldn’t bear for more heartbreak like that. So I sealed off my heart and settled. There were tons of red flags- anger issues, blowing hot and cold. When I decided a few years later to try and progress things along and insist that we move in together, he had every excuse in the book of why he “couldn’t”. After he ran and I ignored him, accepting that the relationship would probably be over, he came back to me a few days later and agreed to the move. I mistakenly took this as a sign of his potential to grow and we lived together for three stressful, agonizing years. And as the years went on, I did open my heart and love him. I just never felt it was reciprocated. Not in the way I longed for, anyway. He was always accusing me of treating him wrong, talking to him the “wrong way” and he’d blow up if I confronted him about anything- making me feel like I was nuts. He drank too much later in the relationship. He had financial issues he was running from, family problems that were all consuming. He was angry at his sister, his mother, his boss, my kids (who are great kids he just didn’t care), drivers on the road, anyone that prepared his food….angry. And I understand I played a part in the demise of the relationship, but his failure to be emotionally available was the main reason I pulled away.
But when he wasn’t angry- he was so engaging. Charming. Funny. Charismatic. Generous. The problem was, at any given day, at any given moment, you never knew what you were going to get. And I grew tired of walking on eggshells and having knots in my stomach.
So, in August I told him it was over. And I was ready to move on. I was scared and sad but I had done what needed to be done. A few months passed and we were still in touch here and there by texts. He dragged out getting the last of his things, stopped by with rent a few times to help me out for a few months. But, overall, I was doing really well. I was grieving the way I should have been, sad at some moments, fine at most times.
Until, right around my birthday, when the weeks leading up he was texting me often, telling me there were signs popping up all over reminding him of me. He sent me a long beautiful text telling me he missed me and wished everyday that we were together. He showered me with birthday presents. He took me to dinner for my birthday, where we talked for hours, cried, hugged, kissed, told each other we loved each other. A few days later we had a conversation about potentially trying again… Or did we? Was I misunderstanding it all?
Then suddenly, he blew cold. He found a new apartment, was making plans to move from where he was staying temporarily and his texts suddenly became sporadic. Then it happened- I started feeling needy and I would text him. He’d always be nice, but he was now distracted. Except for his first week in his new place, when he texted me one night to tell me he was lonely and how most days he wished he could just come home, I didn’t hear a word from him. There would be a random text here or there…just to resurface for a second. Act warm and loving and then ..poof…nothing. For days and days.
I tried to make more plans with him…he agreed to getting together. (I know in hindsight it was stupid of me but it was like I couldn’t help myself). Then, two weeks in a row, after he told me he would text me to set up plans, I heard nothing from him. Except for a brief text to tell me a family member had passed, I heard nothing. And I said nothing. And I was embarrassed, hurt and feeling so silly for misreading his intentions.
You see, his intentions were NOT to win me back, his intentions were to leave the relationship like a big shot, so no one could possible dislike him. But it backfired.
I, like a desperate fool, reached out once more before the holidays (when HE then was the one to initiate getting together). And I heard nothing…once again. I started to realize that I’m remaining tethered to this man like a puppy because of my OWN insecurities and self esteem issues.
I am now 15 days NC. And I feel like I’ve been empowered.
I didn’t even reply to him on Christmas – after he FINALLY decided to text me late Christmas night.
15 days. But, I’m still stuck.
@reeling.. I think this is very normal in the break up stage and early days of NC. I am experiencing the same thing. I read an article that talked about scientific studies that show that the endorphins, etc. Of being in love are as addictive as heroin. So really when you’re first breaking up and NC it is like withdrawing from crack. I know it’s a joke to say “relationship crack” but it is actually very true!
Some things that are helping me (slowly): journalling, posting here, reading Nats articles, going to bed early, cognitive behavioral psychology exercises (thought writig etc.). Good luck! Work in progress..
The withdrawal effect is very true. I feel I still experience it. But it’s rare and much less intense. It’s normal as with any addiction. We need to be patient with ourselves, stick to the goal, and keep going the course. We will get there. It DOES get weaker and go away. Takes time. Different for everyone. No pressure on oneself and when you read, or so and so, got over the ex in 6 months it doesn’t mean you HAVE to.
You will on your time.
Also keeping busy, seeing friends lots, planning fututre trips (that I may or may not take), making a vision board (that does not include him!). And planning to go to counseling starting next week. But the biggest thing overall that helps right now for me is going to bed early and taking breaks from social stuff when i need to. My thinking about hkm gets so busy and crazy at night, so that’s a key part.. Getting a lot of sleep. I’ve been using a natural sleep enhanced to help but may get some temporary sleeping meds from doctor if it gets worse. Hopeful this stage starts to end soon. With NC I can see more clearly that MM is not as great of a guy as I thought lol he was, even if he has good qualities. And that I can have a really really good life without him! Just need to stay Nc and work on self and own life :). Stay strong!
Leanne,
Try GABA supplements. These really helped me in the first months of healing because I couldn’t sleep. Sleep is important. Of course check with your doctor first. GABA and melatonin are still helping me regulate my sleep. I lost a lot of sleep the first half of 2014.
@rags mom, it sounds like you’ve really got lots of clarity about your situation. What’s your secret?? Are you still up and down a lot (and/or obsessive thinking of OM?) or are you finding things getting better for you now?
@M.H. They sounds horrible. Good on your for getting to 15 days NC! It is tough stuff, so impressive you made it :). Don’t worry about the going back and forth about contact/NC a bit at first. I think that’s normal. I have found it particularly challenging to keep my cool when men blow cold and ignore you suddenly after having been close and texting lots, etc. I don’t know why they do this. I know some seem to do it as a way to gain power in the relationship (perhaps this is the case wih your ex? Maybe if he was angry at you for splitting up?). It also sounds like he may have met someone else (sorry if that’s hard to hear). It just seems there was a distinct change in contact on his part and I think that is often the case. I’m sure there are more experienced readers out Tre who will hopefully have some insightful comments. But you are doing really really well! Congrats on 15 days NC!
Thanks Leanne. It’s been easier than I thought- as soon as Christmas Day rolled around and I felt myself waiting ALL day for word from him and didn’t receive it until 8pm, I knew I had to stick with NC.
It’s possible he found someone else and was keeping me around as an ego boost. I don’t know, really. He’s in his 40’s, never had a relationship longer than ours (five years), nor been married and always, always blamed the women for the end of every relationship.
He always blew hot and cold. At the beginning of our relationship and during the entire relationship. It’s his pattern. If he IS seeing someone else, he shouldn’t be telling me he misses and loves me. I honestly believe he doesn’t want to be close to anyone. He had our relationship broken up when it first started- meaning- he doesn’t fully commit, so he knew it would eventually end. I probably threw him by being the insecure oaf that stuck with it for so long.
I think he turns to me when he needs some comfort and to feel better about himself. When I reciprocate, tell him nice things, he’s good with that. And can then move on to his life again. He’s one that has stayed friends with all of his exes. I never understood that…until I started reading Natalie’s books. I’m refusing to be one of those exes…who hang around him and feed his ego. It’s over. I need to be done and gone.
You ladies are making me laugh (Sophia and incognito). I had a drawer at my exes that consisted of only a toothbrush LOL . One he kept after 6 months of our breakup (creepy). I’ve read men who can’t love but he didn’t keep my actual belongings. He never left a single item at my place and was so weird about showering at my place which I found so eery after 2 years together! He never left anything at my house either, but was a weirdo and would keep a pillow with my makeup on it and obviously it belonged to him but he wouldn’t wash and or anything that smelled like my perfume. Weird is an understatement! LOL
Eyes Wide Open,
The ex never even slept at my place!!! One time he was really tired and after sex just kind of snoozed with his head on my breast. I felt so happy, I said, “stay, don’t go. just sleep here. ” He said, ” oh no I will fall asleep and stay here,” I said, “so what, stay here, rest and sleep and tomorrow morning you will leave.” Nope. He jumped right up and left so quickly like a lightening attacked him. And that was 7-8 months into our relationship. the question is rather on me – how did I ALLOW this kind of stuff? Never again. Thanks to BR.
I am glad we can laugh about it:)
Relief. Sigh. We are healing:)
Thanks ladies, I have been posting on here a lot the last few days as my break from work draws to a close and I have to deal with my work situation. I appreciate that you are still listening and thanks for your advice! @wiser, I did read your post be other day and found it very helpful. Most others seemed to say just stay NC, so I’ve been unsure which route is best. I do want out of this situation and I think that a short email may be the way to go. Natalies old post also said to set out expectations early so I may just do this tomorrow night or Monday morn. I will let you know how it goes.
Thanks all! Today I feel a bit out of it and nervous, but am planning to remain NC except for this short email to tell MM please not to come by anymore as we should not be in contact except for work. It’s day 17 and I’ve decided to set a new goal to the end of jan which will be 45 days NC. Good luck to everyone struggling with this stuff! I can already see things keep getting better and better with NC, tho it can just be a real struggle some days. I’m also staying away from ex but for phone calls as friends. Going to take some time to work on myself before I make any life changes and decisions. I hope I didn’t sound callous towards him before. I’m not looking to jump back in with him but I also want to get my head screwed back on right before making any further life decisions.
Leanne, best of luck as you go back to work. I’ve been exactly where you are, so I understand all those conflicting feelings. It’s going to be crappy for awhile, there’s just no way around it. Once you declare your boundaries to him, it is crucial that you go NC as much as possible. But remember, there’s more to NC than just not being in contact… that’s only step one. The next step is the mental work, the positive affirmations, the thought re-wiring, the focusing on YOU and what you tell yourself about how NC is going to help you – NOT about how he’s going to feel about it, or whether he’s sad, happy, indifferent, smirking, pissed off, thinks you’re foolish, getting an ego stroke, or whatever. HIS FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS DO NOT MATTER. Please repeat this to yourself about 1000 times. They are not your concern and not your business. This is not being “mean” to him – this is about being good to yourself.
Remember, he is married, he is unavailable, he is out of bounds. Repeat that about 8000 times! Hopefully, that will help you stay strong.
Colly and Sofia,
My ex was weird after sex too!! So weird! He would have to shower and in the mornings he had to get out of bed as soon as he would wake up and couldn’t just relax and have a lazy day with me. He would have to make other plans to have his own personal time (mind you I rarely saw him during the week!). It’s like after a certain amount of time spent together he’d get nuts and antsy and have to get away from me. So glad I’m not with that EUM freak anymore! Blocking him has given me a whole new world of peace and clarity to think what the hell was I thinking wanting to settle down with such an odd person.
Eyes Wide Open,
Exactly! There was not a single lazy day with him in the entire year for us. When I suggested he said he didn’t want to be couch potatoes like his parents. I didn’t suggest a life style like that, but just once in a while to be lazy and cuddly like that!
I saw him on the weekends only too (parental and work responsibilities). There were some evenings he came by but rarely and towards the end of it. I suggested cooking a meal for him so he can come after work and relax. No. He couldn’t. It had to be his couch, his TV, and his kind of meal. He ran away from intimacy. Yes. Thanks for saying that, “I thinking wanting to settle down with such an odd person.” Imagine that? I think the same now. What a nightmare of a life!
Happy Happy 2015 ladies!!!
I must say that outside of my looking for work. I look forward to pouring out my hear and head on these posts because I post to myself as I post to you ladies. I hope somebody can get something from this. Where do I start?!! I am in the best place internally/mentally/emotional than I have been since I don’t know when. I am literally excited about that. Being in between jobs have done nothing but give me time to deal with that wounded girl/teen/young lady that was inside of me. In terms of bounce back, I found myself hitting a wall completely, reaching my breaking point. I was unhappy enough with what the universe was showing me as it related to the social and dating aspect of my life. I got tired of saying to myself how nice, sweet, kind, funny, ambitious, energetic,…..I was and why does I keep getting mistreated when I have been nothing but kind and tolerant? I got tired of feeling like “I wouldn’t say that to them in 1 million years, but they say it to me with ease”. I got tired of that shit. While out of work, it was just me and my issues. I had to figure out how being treated less than I deserve was ok with me? How was this stuff ever ok with me?! How did it get to be ok? Well my parents, namely my mother made it ok. Not to linger too much on the past, but the root of my issues was never feeling quite ‘safe’. Not having the emotional support or feeling comfortable expressing myself within my parents household. There was a lack in empathy. So, when I essentially chose people and situations that put me in the familiar but depressed and frustrated space of my childhood/adolescence/young adulthood on repeat. While yes, these guys were fully responsible for their words and their ways… However, I had to figure out what sweet, kind, funny, witty, intuitive, supportive, giving, loving ljsrmissy doing with THEM?!!!! Good gravy… I didn’t have my back so it was ok that the guy I was dealing with didn’t have my back. I wasn’t there for me like I deserved to I found it tolerable that they weren’t there for me like I deserve. I simply hit a wall. I knew enough about myself to knew I deserved better results I was getting in life. To be continued…
Ok continued lol. I took inventory of my strengths. I actually took the time to think about what I LIKE about me. I had the negativity thing down pat. I feel that I am and always have been a lovely young lady with a sugary disposition. And I a learning bit by bit how to separate who I am from what has happened to me, been said to me, been done to me in life. I have also given myself permission to be angry and hurt. Permission to be human. I realized that the lord has brought me through this, my strength even as a little girl, teased and bullied without mercy, not feeling emotionally safe at home, in the depths of depression, was enough to survive and bring me to the woman I am today. And because of that I am already a woman, full, whole, and defined. I am already made. A man cant make me. Now I would like to meet a great guy and have a relationship where we grown and abound in love. Where we facilitate the mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual elevation of each other. However as a woman I have no longer deify men and relationships like we are socialized to do as women. I think this mentality as lead many of us woman to believe that we should be ‘lead’ by men who are more lost, and broken than we could ever dream to be. I know I deserve and work towards a happy, healthy, full, and fruitful life either way. That has done so much in they way of recognizing and passing on crumbs.I have also come to realize a lot about people in general. I find that many many people take kindness for weakness and stupidity. Other will take whatever is not bolted down on us if we don’t enforce our boundaries, especially as women. I find that people will use people for ANYTHING as well. Nat has written many great reads about this very thing. I learned to hear what men say but LISTEN to what men DO. Listen to what men do! We ladies need no stop being so naive to the game. And trust that men come with a game plan. A man recognizing a gung ho, over eager woman. He know that all he has to do is say a few trite, vague works and a thirsty woman’s imaginations, fantasies, and desire of that dream of love, marriage, and a baby carriage will fill in the blanks. Men know how to ‘pump fake’ the possibility of a date, a relationship, a commitment, a marriage, and a future together. And when you actually try to get some clarity or spell it out in clear terms, he will say ‘oh we are just friends, or oh I didn’t mean to give you that impression. Its all game. Even the whole ‘lets see where it goes, I like to take it slow’ game is game lol. Men will say anything. The ends justify the means when it comes to men for the most part. Why do you think men love sports so much? Its all about game, strategy, and who can out think and out do who. Its about competing and conquering for men. Are we naive to believe that many men don’t approach women the same way? We know when a man is truly interested and when he is not. And for these Married ass men, a man who is truly trying to impress a woman or bring his A game is NOT going to come to her with a sob story, especially involving his relationship with ANOTHER WOMAN! We Westerns are too divorce happy to believe that any married man or woman stays in their marriage for another reason that THEY WANT TO. Think about it, this same man that claims that his wife is this and that is the same man that goes to work everyday to make a bigger, better, nicer, and safer life for that same woman he is complaining about. This is also the same man that jumps in his car and goes back, and keep going back to that very woman that doesn’t ‘understand him, while the other woman get nothing but words and a wet spot in the bed. I have come to and am still learning to value my mind, time, energy, and body. To see it as a resource. To see my smile and energy as a resource. And with that being said, to know that there are just those kinds of people, men for the purpose of this site, that I shouldn’t waste my resources on.
ljsrmissy, your future is bright, lots of lessons.
So good to move away from that feeling of giving so much and not being rewarded. A lot of that giving is just reaching out, there is so much more to give once when we stop all the ‘why me’ nonsense and look at where and how we’re focusing our energies.
There are plenty, PLENTY of men who are not as you describe, but the decent, healthy ones will avoid women with low self-esteem, they want to co-pilot, not fill an emotional void and/or take advantage.
So keep on being your sweet, funny, ambitious, kind self, watch your own back, send the ‘let’s see where it goes’ scumbags packing, and great things will come your way!
Happy New Years Happy B. Refocusing our energies is right on time. Our hearts our, bodies, minds, and energies are our RESOURCES. Its 2015, and while it is in reality another day, it is also day 4 of 365. And this is PAST RIDICULOUS! The ridiculous train left a long long time ago. And if we as women in are 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and 60’s choose to be suck ass managers and delegaters of our resources, that OUR FAULT. Its not these AC’s, Narcs, EUM’s, or MM’s fault that we REFUSE to be good to ourselves while men REFUSE to NOT put themselves first. We are grown ass women not little girls that need men (that are more clueless than we are) to tell us how to feel about our grown selves.
@ljrsmissy- wow. Just wow. I can’t tell you how much I loved this post. I needed this. There is so much that you have written that I can relate to – especially having the negative thing down pat. Thank you. Women need to spend more time building themselves up than tearing themselves down. And I DO think it’s important to revisit your past to try to piece together WHY we, and let others, treat ourselves the way we do. We can’t blame mommy and daddy forever, but when there are emotionally unavailable parents in your childhood, this WILL effect your relationships later in life, unless addressed and recognized. I realize that this is why I’ve chosen/stayed in my past relationships as long as I did. But I’ve removed myself from them and I just want to do this ALONE for awhile. I want a healthy relationship, not one built out of need or insecurity.
Happy New Years M.H.
I also think that religion (not spirituality)had a lot to do with how women look themselves. There is just so much that I question and simply no longer believe in terms of what man made and controlled religion has taught me about gender. Religion has taught me to deify men, but life has shown me damn near the total opposite. I dont believe men are Gods second in command or Gods security guards. I dont believe that. I dont believe that women are ‘weak, irrational’ and all that other garbage. Can we have ‘weak’ and ‘irrational’ moments. YES. But men do as well. I no longer believe that women who are not married are lacking in some way. Who a woman is, a man has nothing to do with. I am just speaking about what religion and social propaganda that is pressuring women covertly to subjugate themselves to men who are (what I personally believe) are for the most part (not all) morally/ethically, emotionally lacking and ill equipped. You are spot on about not blaming the parents forever. I often say to myself and remind myself that “I AM HERE” regardless of all that was said and done “I AM HERE” so “what am I going to do?”
“But I’ve removed myself from them and I just want to do this ALONE for awhile. I want a healthy relationship, not one built out of need or insecurity.”
And this is the key, you are spot on. we as women need to actually KNOW WHAT WE WANT before we engage with men.
I believe it is important to look back so we can make connections as to how we got to be where we are today. I look back, I just don’t stare!
Thanks to all for your advice on the obsessing. I have to say I’m not just obsessing about my ex, also about my marriage, my past and just generally about me being a mess and desperate to rush myself into fixing me.
I’ve had lots of counselling in the past and am in counselling now, and am well aware of all the events that have helped me to this ghastly place – and many other ghastly places I’ve been to in the past (late teens/early twenties of drug abuse, exercise addiction, failed relationships of all kinds,sexual promiscuity – all this while still getting a PhD). I almost feel like I have analysis paralysis, I understand but can’t turn it into action.
I think most of all I need to build my self esteem, I need to be in a better place before I can make some real decisions. Right now I’m a terrible wife, a terrible mother, just a terrible mess. My marriage is also a mess but the cause and effect aren’t clear.
God, feeling really really bad today, want to scream and run away from everything.
Hi Colly, sorry to hear its been a bad day …. are you getting back to work tommorrow as well after the Xmas / New Year holiday ? Maybe its partly tension over having to get back …. have you tried marriage counselling, both of you attending ? We have been in marriage counselling for a year now, but now that I am NC with OM, im finally starting to give marriage counselling the full focus I didnt before, and its not easy, but there are definite benefits, there are things we cudnt easily talk about that we are at least trying to with the counsellor helping ….in an ideal world , relationships wouldnt ‘need work’ but I do think that when two ppl are together for something like 10 or even 5 years , its maybe impractical to think that the two ppl wouldnt grow apart in some ways ….so reconnecting needs a conscious attempt ….
I think u are being too hard on yourself , by tagging yourself ‘terrible wife/mom/etc’ even on a bad day mood …the self esteem course should be great timing from next week ….I struggle with a lot of self esteem issues at the moment too, but I have always been a natural optimist in my teens and twenties, so thats helping me now, ie being able to see the light side ….You sound like you have a great career (Phd, team of your own indicating u are work in a managerial capcity, travel etc) ….and u have a husband who u described as ‘lovely’ and a two year old ….I actually thought OM calling u to ‘help’ him when he needed to umm, donate , for fertility treatment showed that …tho the relationship was wrong (both married, and him not really interested in leaving his marriage) it seemed to have been a real relationship where u both were close and his need of you was real not imagined or exagerated, (albeit by just giving into that need and using u, and then not coming clean with his wife / respecting what he had with u, he did prove himself an AC at the time)….so try and look at both sides of any situation and not be too negative especially on yourself (negative on AC may not be a bad thing especially if u have determined that NC is the right path)
Rags mom! Wishing she could be there to ‘help’ him ‘donate’ is NOT a compliment!!! What are you thinking or maybe I’m reading your post wrong??? In fact, I don’t know if he could be even more insulting…
Rosie, ditto!!
Rag’s Mom,
.”.I actually thought OM calling u to ‘help’ him when he needed to umm, donate , for fertility treatment showed that …tho the relationship was wrong (both married, and him not really interested in leaving his marriage) it seemed to have been a real relationship where u both were close and his need of you was real not imagined or exagerated, (albeit by just giving into that need and using u, and then not coming clean with his wife / respecting what he had with u, he did prove himself an AC at the time)….so try and look at both sides of any situation “.
That is pure positive spin, and sorry but it is (unintentional) mind effery in action. What are the “two sides” of this situation that should supposedly provide comfort and a reason for someone to be less ‘hard” on herself? There is only the one side here – this man was confident/arrogant/oblivious/disrespectful enough to call Leanne with an aim to getting himself off during a w..nking session the purpose of which was to start a family with (you guessed it) his WIFE (the woman he is in a contract of marriage with). Yes his actions and behaviour towards Leanne were ‘real’ – his arrogance and disrespect in asking her to be his object appear real. But his behaviour, actions and sense of entitlement during this incident do not represent some sort of sign that this was a ” real relationship where u both were close and his need of you was real not imagined…”. His “need” (if you want to call it that) was to use someone as a sexual object for his own purposes. That was not a need manifesting within a mutual relationship of trust and respect.
Leanne,
you don’t need to be hard on yourself for this incident and I would be saying this whether you had agreed or not. But when you’re ready you will reach a point where you will pat yourself on the back for telling him no that day. You may have some regrets that it wasn’t followed through with an eff you at the time, but go easy on yourself. Self blame gets you nowhere and stops us from learning , and moving on to happier places and recognising our worth.
Sorry, I am speaking to Colly above, not Leanne. Got the posts mixed up there.
Thanks lizzp, self blame and guilt is my major major trap right now and I know its holding me back.
I do already pat myself on the back for not saying yes, aside from my soul screaming from the wrongness of it, it was also extremely painful given my feelings for him. You know, afterwards he sent me a photograph he’d taken of the artwork on the wall in his little w*nking room and wanted to discuss with me what an odd choice it was.
Colly, just read this “…afterwards he sent me a photograph he’d taken of the artwork on the wall in his little w*nking room and wanted to discuss with me what an odd choice it was.”…eewk, what a freak.
Yes, being asked to help donate was definitely not nice, a very AC move. At the time I had made my feelings clear that I wanted to be with him and I wanted to help him get custody of his kids (he had alleged his wife was abusive towards him you see and often such people move into their kids too after a time). He knew I dreamt of being with him, his kids, my child, and having our own baby together. OK so I should have walked when he said he couldn’t leave his wife, and definitely when he said they were trying for another baby, but the whole abuse thug kicked me into Flirence Nightingale mode and I just tried to fix him so he could see I was a better option. He kept me around until he felt strong enough “to fix himself on his own and give his wife 100% chance to change. Whatever love he expressed and still does today he used me very badly and it is all just terribly, terribly painful.
Apologies for all the typos!
Colly, it will be ok. Going through this horrendous pain is unavoidable after an emotional over investment in an EU person. It is a first stage of healing and learning about ourselves and our unhealthy patterns. You will come out the other end. It will just take some time.
p.s probably what you need to work on is being emotionally available to yourself – that could be very painful too of course, but a better and more honest pain than feeling trapped within yourself as you describe in comment to Rags mom below.
@rags mom, yeah nobody would know I was a wreck from the outside and on paper my life sounds like a dream, but I’ve been trained from a young age by very EU parents to present a good front. Truth is I feel so lonely and starved of love. I can feel me trapped inside this little box dying to come out but being terrified I’ll be rejected and abandoned for showing my true colours. In some ways, but not all, I could express and be me in the affair, it was at least ok to talk about such things (although I did a lot of people pleasing too to try and keep him – as I have people pleased my whole life).
In my marriage this feels like an impossibility. I’ve come to a low point before and eventually told my husband and he was horrified that he didn’t notice I was depressed, but at the same time just doesn’t get it how someone’s past can bother them so much. I’m getting to the point where I’m going to have to do something because I can’t stand another second.
The relationship in the affair was very real, and the love was genuine. I really wanted to be with him. That said, the AC things he did made me think that his brand of love was not really what I needed. I’ll never understand how he claimed to be in love with his wife and want to try for more children with her and yet say he loved me.
The marriage counselling is an option if I can even get as far as broaching the subject. I can see how your marriage counselling wouldn’t work until you went NC with OM. I don’t know how it would all work for me though because I can’t own up to the affair.
Anyway, sat outside in the car outside my counsellors house which is a good thing. Self esteem course starting today. I am also back at work today so just hoping I don’t hear from OM.
@Leanne,
Hey, I think I only sounded a lot more in control cos my posts were shorter, but that was really more due to having to get back to work from tommorrow (like you, after a couple of weeks mostly off) and my son has been demanding attention (not that I mind lol) since hes been off preschool these past two weeks as well and is back in from tommorrow.
I struggle a lot too Leanne, but NC does get better with time, I have found that too be true ….as I said, i was waking up with a pounding headache for almost months after I left the old job, cos I had got that dependant on the ‘colleagues’ bond with OM ….for a while, it was even ‘boring and dull’ to get used to the idea at the new job that once again ‘going into work’ was just that ‘going into work’….that shows how far reality had been distorted for me tho by the time I got serious abt NC.
I broke NC many times before getting serious abt it….its 18 months now since I met OM in July 2013 (oh the memories…but thankfully all coloured in black and white and faded now, doesnt seem vivid and just yesterday anymore) ….with me, it took multiple rounds of breaking NC to fully realise that it was the only solution = short term pain (maybe even a year or two) but long term peace (already feeling this) ….
somewhere along the way it sank in gradually that what I really was hoping to hear him say was one thing ‘ I want to be with you, leave your marriage and lets be together, I’ll show you that we are worth it’ ….and even in the scenario where he might have said that Im not sure I still would have wanted to ignore my concerns over the age difference or impact on my son of divorce ….im not sure how far I would have been able to hurt my husband , who despite OM, is still my husband of 11 years, the object of my girlhood dreams, the only man I have ever ‘been’ with (in the biblical sense lol)
its almost like I just needed to hear OM say that I meant that much to him and then I wanted to do the right thing ….Maybe, or maybe him actually saying those words would have had a different end outcome, we will never know …but I dont really yearn for it anymore, ….
NC is very cleansing, makes u see things for what they are , and also as women we sometimes put ourselves in very hurtful situations (do i want to risk hurting my husband repeatedly just to be OM’s ‘agony aunt’ not so keen on that anymore)
keep talking on here, and u yourself will see ur perspective changing….but it will be very very gradual…..may not be by day 45, altho the short term targets are good milestones …I still miss him, but the nature of the emotion has changed, the pain has definitely reduced….
Hey I also wanted to add this = if NC is too painful, maybe a short term solution is to just think of it as shorter term than forever. its kind of a way of cheating urself into beliveing thats it not the absolute end, to make it less painful. Im not explaining it well but what I mean is –
I first got on NC boat by telling myself we couldnt be just friends or anything more right now. I told myself maybe when my son was much older, maybe the age gap of 9 years would seem lesser when we were both ‘middle aged’ rather than just one of us , i told myself a friendship was possible perhaps after he was married with kids too …none of this made logical sense neccesarily but it got me thru the first few weeks , i even fantasised a lot of hollywood movie style reunion 5 years, or 10 years from now (‘wow, she looks so hot’ yada yada) ….it got me through for a while and now I dont need those fantasises as much. I still think of reconnecting to catch up say on email over the phone someday as I find it sad to think of never ever talking to him again or knowing how things turned out for him (whom did he marry, how many kids, etc etc) …but Im more at peace at the possibility of never talking again as well as time passes. Get yourself thru the first few months in as kind and with as much humor/fun/ cheer as you possibly can muster. I really understood that he is not my best friend, only I can be my own best friend, and consistently protect myself from hurt, no one else can do this for us
Oh no, work again tomorrow, and back to the tense, sick feeling running up to 12 noon when ex would call on his way into work everyday (5 HR time difference between us). Funny because he hardly ever calls now but I know when he’s going to, and I’m getting that sinking feeling my NC will power will be tested tomorrow. I need to not pick up, that will be my mantra for the next 24 hours.
@rags mom, you do sound wonderfully in control, and I’m guessing it’s time and NC that does that, it’s an inspiration.
Thanks guys. I made it to day 18! So I sent the text this morning (please don’t come by my office anymore, as we shouldn’t be chatting and friends.). And his response.. Sorry he has been so quiet lately, he found out before xmas that his wife is pregnant. Omg!! What was he doing with me if they were trying to have a baby?? Again, I never slept with him, but he shouldn’t have been making out with me and stringing me along. He knew how I felt, and he dragged my heart along while I was trying to get out (meanwhile starting a family with his wife!).
Wtf is wrong with this man?? I know I am responsible for my own actions here, but this is so painful! Anyways, I havent responded. I think im going to spend the next couple days screaming into my pillow (maybe call in sick tomorrow). I am so embarrassed! And the worst thing is, he sounds all sympathetic and condescending in his response, like “I know you’re so in love with me and I’m sorry I can’t be with you.. But my wife and I are having an amazing life. I feel really bad for you and il be there for you to watch you recover from me.” He said he still wants to still be friends! What an AC, right?? This is insane!
This I’m sure is utterly painful news, Leanne, but very good news for YOU nonetheless. What more incentive could you need to stay NC, stay away from him, and not cont. to indulge in fantasies about him? And now you know him for exactly what he is. Not what he pretended to be with you. Poor wife.
Leanne, this guy is pathetic, a loser, a weak coward and definitely NOT someone you want to be friends with. What an asshole! I feel incredibly sorry for his wife. Now that you’ve stated your boundaries, you MUST go total NC, and BLOCK him completely from being able to write you these careless and utterly thoughtless responses. If you don’t, you are going to feel like this every time you read an email from him – and you will have no one to blame but yourself. Reading emails from him even if you don’t respond is STILL breaking no contact. You’re just going to cause yourself more pain, believe me. You also need to sever contact with him in your mind, like trying to figure out why he did x, y or z (forget it, it’s a hopeless task) or what he thinks or what anything between you meant to him, and so on. I wasted SO much time agonizing over this crap in my situation – looking back I think I actually chose actions that would cause me pain and whip up drama, because it gave me the illusion that we still had some kind of connection, and a painful connection was better than none at all. All crazy thinking! I want to try to spare you some of that.
I know it doesn’t feel like it at the moment, but you dodged a bullet here – be GLAD, in fact get on your knees and thank God that you didn’t sleep with this guy! Take care of your own heart now and don’t allow him to lob bombs in your direction!
Leanne, this is crazy! He is totally AC. He could have replied just saying ‘ok fine’ or ‘i understand’. He could have saved that pregnancy announcement for later; of course he could also have just stayed loyal to his wife. Please know this is NOT a reflection on you. Its nothing to be embarrassed about. He wants you to be embarrassed. Dont be embarrassed, take responsibility – sometimes we fall for a&&holes and thats just how life is and it takes a while to get over it. You’re going through the ‘get over the a&&hole phase’ and it takes time. Block it in your calendar. Three months of g-o-a-p. It will hopefully take far less than that. I just started getting emails from the EU on our group social email – I am rereading everything I have journaled about him. I am not interested anymore but the bad feelings dont go away. So know that you are not alone in these feelings, we’ve all been there or are there… And yes, we can all confirm for you, he is a total AC.
Living well is the best revenge; stay classy. I suggest buying some great new outfits, and changing some of your work routines e.g. where you have lunch. Its a new year so its a good time to say these are your new year resolutions and change work habits in a way that others won’t comment and will keep you away from him, and inject some newness in your routine. Help you get out of the rut.
Leanne, Leanne, Leanne! We are grown women here so I’m not going to pull no punches. Big girl panty time. This is a married man…how did you think this story was going to end? Did the man tell you he was going to get a divorce…no? Separated? Crashing on a neighbors couch? Did this man even say that he was ‘unhappy’ with his marriage at least? No? Well what are you upset about? How did he string you along? I can tell you what he was doing with you, he was having some extracurricular fun. You know, between ‘friends’. Whatever he said about her is moot as he chose and continues to choose to work and every day to make live and living better for HER. And he jump in his car everyday to go home to HER. It seems to me he was very clear or what this was, while you were not. This man has been pulling the ‘friend’ card on you. What do you think that meant? Heck for all you could know, his marriage could be going wonderful and he told you or you took it as his marriage was in trouble or unhappy. This married man and his WIFE are having a baby… what are you upset about? How much of this is stuff that he actually said or did to lead you to believe that it was going to be you and him together vs. your overactive imagination connecting dots that didn’t exist? I don’t want you to receive my post as a judgement, but asking you to ask yourself honest questions as this isn’t about him I believe as much as it is a lesson for YOU.
Leanne,
I really do know how this feels, if you’ve read my posts you’ll know my ex MM invited me to join him by FaceTime to help him donate for his wife at the fertility clinic. Like you, I could never understand how someone could be building a life and planning a family with someone while having an affair – that is just total AC behaviour to me. To my shame I was in so deep and my self esteem was so low that I just told him I didn’t want to hear about any of this else there is no way I could ever go near him again, when I should have just left for my own dignity and for the sake of his wife. Its this thing I cling onto and remember when I get too nostalgic about him, if that’s his idea of love then I’d rather not have it.
I still have to work with my ex MM occasionally and I am dreading hearing about a new pregnancy either directly from him or through the grapevipe.
I’ve also had the condescending tone from him too, its horrible. I was in a terrible state a few weeks back, like thinking suicidal thoughts, and ended up calling him because I didn’t know where else to turn. In this conversation he told me he loved and he always would, but his life was really starting to turn around and be different, and that I shouldn’t be mad with him because he was sorting his life out but I wasn’t able to sort mine out.
Yuk, these guys really do come in the same package. I’d class myself as a bit of an AC but not in this league.
Leave well alone Leanne.
Wow, Colly- You’re sure you were in love with him? It sounds like you didn’t know him that well. This sleazebag grosses me out. Yet, this side of him didn’t show until later, it seems.
Hi Rosie, you know I focused on the man I’d first met, cherry picked the best bits, pushed down the bad stuff, did some projecting and was in love with the result. I didn’t know about the really bad stuff until much later on, in the last three months, by which time my self esteem was so eroded from being the OW that I just minimised my needs and pain further and stuck at it.
He helped me to do this by telling me his wife is abusive towards him which kicked in me into fixer upper mode and focused me on trying to fix him up to leave and be with me. It was never going to happen, I knew that, he told me he could never leave because his family would disown him, his wife would alienate his kids against him and may even stab him in his sleep.I thought my love could conquer all.
I feel foolish right now and am blaming myself for it all right now – lots of hours spent telling myself “I should have…”.
I feel that while we as women, namely fall back girls, are sooooo justified in wanting love and romance with a great partner, in our eagerness to have these things we consistently delude ourselves and choose to not take an HONEST and REALISTIC look at the men and situations that are before us too often. This is where I went wrong in the past definitely! We see that these men are married (and going to work for and home to the wives EVERYDAY), still hung up on some other chick, we see that these guys have substance abuse problems, all of these personal problems, all of these emotional problems and we still are trying to be serious with these guys. What kind of ‘relationship’ do we think these guys can give us? Now the men are telling women straight up that they don’t want nothing serious..and women get mad and feel cheated when he wont commit! What the what?!
I played games with my own mind. Now before I say what I am going to say, as a woman,you all don’t have to take my word for this, just ask a man that doesn’t have a vested interest in lying to you. I believe most men believe on one level or another that women are here for them. To serve them, and to put it plainly, be at their disposal. And just because a man has approached you and asked you for your phone number, spending time with you, and sleeping with you, does NOT mean that he necessarily like YOU (as an individual). It is not enough to assume that just because a man is coming around, talking a lot, even if he is not sleeping with you, that he is interested in a future with you. We as women need to delineate what these guys are around coming around us for. Because many men are not necesarilly after someONE, but someTHING (sex, ego strokes, free therapy,free ideas, control,a sound board,) Nat has great reads on all of this. We need to delineate if he is here for us or the SERVICES that women provide and he just happen to be getting those ‘services’ from us. This is why a man can move on from us without batting an eye lash and go to the next woman. A man can be here with us, but he is not with us emotionally. a man can be here with us, but not here for us. We must learn the difference!! A man often times is after someTHING (usually dealing with his own ego) not someONE and that’s why some guys bounce from woman to woman…because it is NOT about that particular woman, but whatever he is trying to get. Married men fall into this category. He already has a someone at home so know that if we become the other women, he is not looking for us, but that sense of something his someone is not giving him. Men have a particular woman or qualities of a woman that they would like to settle down with, however they will ‘loiter’ with just about any woman. A man will loiter and sleep with a woman he is not particularly attracted to and one that he doesn’t like very much. If you are a woman that wants love and marriage, BE REAL about whether you sense that your current guy is just ‘loitering’. Another BR posted had an analogy of men going after women they don’t want like dogs go after cars they know they cant drive. Its exercise, entertainment, and ‘something to do’. I like to use the analogy of how we will eat all types of chips and dip at a party, just because it is there. If it wasn’t there, we wouldn’t have given it a first thought and these certain foods are definitely something that we wouldn’t go to the grocers and buy on our own. But if its just ‘there’ then sure,we will take some. Why not? I know plenty of men view women, certain women this very way. You are someone he flirts with at the office or when he runs into you, but he wouldn’t seek you on his own. Also, if you know you look a certain way, and you notice that he is always talking about how he finds certain celebs (that look nothing like you) ‘hot’, don’t ignore that. Lets not date/sleep with men that we get a sense look down on us, we would be goners if he were to get his stuff together, and who secretly aspire to be with women who are other than us and who are nothing like us.
Sofia,
Looks like we dated almost the same weirdo. I can’t believe yours never even stayed at your place! I would have yelled at mine. The future faking is even a good laugh now. He would tell me where we were going to move together and how much we would spend and financial set up for how we would split certain bills and when I lost my job to a lay off he suggested my moms house two hours away if I didn’t get a job right away! Seriously? That crossed your mind when you have been saying all these things about us living together? That was the final straw for me. He offered to pay my rent over giving me a place to live if things got bad (thankfully God had my back and I got an even better job). I honestly felt like he believed his own lies of what the future held. But he always ran when things got too serious. Hell even doing family weddings and events together was too much pressure (I met them but never got a chance to grow a relationship with them). Yet he loved spending time with my mom which I guess was less risky for him. One time after we broke up he mentioned in convo “the day I settle down and have a family” and I literally laughed in his face and said yea you might want to work on the small stuff first. lLOL. He will end up alone for years if not forever. I was his first gf in 12 years and he is nowhere near even ready for a serious relationship at 34 because of his issues. Good luck buddy!
Eyes (very, very) wide open,
“good luck buddy” – haha – that just made me laugh, there’s a great, and no doubt hard won, attitude.
I love the way you have described handling yourself over the attempted return of this deluded man over the last month on here. Keep up the good work, your confidence, decisiveness, self care and self trust.
Happy New Year to all!
Eyes Wide Open,
Your ex was more available than the guy I had been with. He would not meet with my friends or attend a holiday corporate party with me (after knowing me for 10-11 months). His reply was, “No way.” And no way I could meet his family and friends for holidays (another country) after almost a year of knowing him. I don’t know what was wrong with me not seeing or rather accepting all of this and what came before it. Looking back I see how damaged I was. A lost abandoned rejected girl who didn’t love herself and thought it was normal to be treated like that. I don’t even question anymore what and why he did. I am amazed at how and why I allowed it. The ex was 34 too at the time and never lived with a woman nor did he have a relationship lasting beyond 1,5 year or so. 3-6 month I think was a norm. If he gets married I would not be surprised though (although I will never find out. We have no contact at all, no common friends, no social media). I would not be surprised because I hear a lot that people like that “wake up” and realize they can do it only not with us. And if he doesn’t settle down it doesn’t matter either. I am getting very close to be indifferent which route he takes although I don’t want to know. I am concentrating on my life changes that I have been going through and bouncing back exactly at my own speed without any pressure from anyone anymore. This article is really great. Reinforces our commitment to be loving to ourselves.
Nat,
Your materials are superb. Thank you again for helping me in the journey of recovering my life.
Happy New Years to you and yours
XX
Peanut
Hi ladies,
I thought I would share this tidbit about EUMs, written by a man on another site. It’s a good reminder that while we’re sticking around, patiently waiting for a man to “come to his senses” and that he will one day “wake up” etc, we are actually lowering our value in his eyes to the point where even if he does “wake up” one day — it won’t be with you! Check it out:
“Men use a formula to assign value to the women in their lives and a large part of that formula is derived from how much we believe that woman values herself. If you’ve been giving us all of you while requiring nothing more than our bare minimum then that negatively affects how much we believe you value yourself and we know in our heart we can never be with you. No matter how much we want to, we can’t build up the motivation to give you everything if we know you’ve been content with us giving you barely anything.”
thank you , this was very very useful and confirms what we already know …..
Diane- Yes…and no. Ask him why the slow fade when a woman values herself enough not to have sex after a mere three dates? There’s a lot of blaming the victim out there. Yes, it’s difficult to take someone seriously who obviously doesn’t take herself seriously but his bad behavior is on him. A respectful person would just stop dating the other person. S/he wouldn’t string the other person along, etc. & then blame the other person for it, “I would have liked you and treated you right if you just had some self-esteem…”
Rosie,
I am wholeheartedly with you in your response to the ‘formula’. If I know someone is not treating themselves proper (most vulnerable) then I wouldn’t milk it/string someone along and then have the audacity to put it back on the (vulnerable) person that they can never ever ever be deserving (heart and motivation thrown in) of my lifelong companionship??!!
The ‘formula’ is very disrespectful, very judgmental, very entitled and very delusional thinking and attitude placed on women by dickheads to which this ‘formula’ is only applicable to. I personally know some men who stay and are there for the long haul, no matter what.
True. One point I thought reading this is that a decent guy will not string a person along giving her “barely anything,” while taking all the goodies he can. Kind decent people don’t do that. Yes, there is a discovery time. However, later, if they are not sure about their feelings (or so they say), that they need more time, etc., while having the convenience of receiving and not giving and continuing the usery at this point, that’s just not very nice. I don’t know who wrote that paragraph. It is true because men do it and women allow it ( I did). It is not representative for all men though. I still hope so.
Agree with your sentiments too Sofia, and nicely put your view as yes do the decent thing and leave or (mutually) point out and work on whatever issue is occurring together…what partnership is all about really. And I think women allow it (likewise for men) as they are wanting something from it as well so two way street here. Sadly in the end there is no healthy balance/compromise so do the decent thing and walk away (like I did).
I would like to add dysfunctional to my list in paragraph two…
Sarah Elle and Sofia,
As far as Sarah I would advise you to not respond too. If he was so sorry he would have told you long ago. It’s an excuse to get back into your life because he wants to see how far he can get with you and test the waters again. Not necessarily because he truly means it, or he would have told you long ago.
Sofia-
Consider is a blessing even though we sometimes want the im sorry for closure. I had another serious relationship in which I never got the empathy or I’m sorry and it was easier to move on because the few contact attempts were retarded like one time that ex texted me after a year of now speaking and said “hey!!! How is your day!” As if nothing happened lol. When before that I think I told him to get lost a year prior haha. But honestly that was easier to move on from than this last ex of mine. He will not leave me alone and will never delete my number (his words) and in his contact attempts it’s been awful because it has been “I miss you so much, I love you so much, I’m so sorry I’m such a disaster in relationships because of my horrible upbringing with 3 divorces with my mom, I cry every day”. It makes it worse. The cold attempts by my ex prior to him made it easy to just be mad and move on. This is hard because you feel this sense of so many different emotions like “I wish I could help him he’s so lost” “I hate him he wasted my time twice to run away again” it’s very hard. I finally did block him because I couldn’t take anymore pain. I was reliving it constantly and although I would never ever want to reconsider us and have zero intentions to ever be back together it still hurts. Be happy that you don’t get the heart felt apology because believe it or not it’s even harder to move on 🙁
EWO, good idea blocking him. I got the same sob stories from my exEUM, I remember at one point he was like, “Give me one more chance and I will spend the rest of my life making you happy.” After he’d lied to me yet again about something yet again, I brought that up, and he looked at me blankly and denied he’d ever said that. That was his typical modus operandi. All that b.s. is what made me stay in that for so long. I would have much preferred a cold person I could have turned away from. Someone who would cry and beg and plead made me stay. Such a mistake.
Eyes Wide Open,
I see what you mean. I had an ex like that and he would not leave me alone for several years! Although he was the one who left. He e-mailed and texted and called. Regularly and saying, ” I miss you.” Yes it was difficult back then to get over him, but now I see it because I really thought he loved me and missed me! If this ex happened to me now, I would laugh his communication off. I would block him. A guy who really means it will not do these things. He will either try to reconcile or he will grieve and move on silently or almost silently on his own. Maybe some odd stupid texts like, “Hey, how are you?” after a year. Awkward. I don’t expect communication from my ex because he is a very proud person. Last time he contacted me I asked why you are contacting and whether there is anything you need to tell me or ask me? He disappeared after that question. So although I am getting close to indifferent (hopefully looks like I am, but pre-holidays and holidays were hard still although I had resolved to not assign any meaning to the holidays), I still think that now the crazy “I miss you” communication would have helped me to get over any ex faster because I would devalue this kind of communication instantly because there are no actions and no attempt to reconcile. The silence of this ex (most recent) however tells me he is completely over and moved on and respects my wishes and I will not hear from him again. Short-term it’s harder, but I see what you mean. In the long-term it is a blessing. It is cut off and done, no doubt about it.
Thanks ladies. Argh!! I am so angry right now! Not about the pregnancy (that is just ridiculous and sad) but about him being condescending to me after all he’s put me through. What a piece of s—! Seriously. I know I had a role in this, but he has been so horrible to me! I feel like I want to email him and tell him off and then email his wife and tell her what a lying, cheating crapbag she is married to!
He was the one who pursued me (pretty relentlessly I might add). i told him I wanted out pretty early, but he kept pursuing me hard and then pulling back. I feel like he’s being condescending to me because of the way I acted in December, but that was just in reaction to him being a total jackass to me! Man I wish this guy would suffer some kind of consequence for being such a jerk! I wish losing me was enough, but I can tell he’ll rationalize it in whatever way best fits his story and his ego (ah, too bad for poor Leanne, she was so in love me but alas, I love my wife. I am such a great guy.. She must be sitting around pining over me. Too bad there aren’t more of me to go around).
He is a total. AC right?? I’m glad at least that this happened so I can see and accept this more easily. Is it crazy to want to email him and tell him that I’m not sad anymore.. That I’m happy that he’s not in my life because he is a pathetic sack of s—? And is it crazy to want to email his wife and tell her what a no good cheat he is? And a mean and condescending one at that?! Would you want to know if you were her??
Sorry I’m sure I sound totally irrational right now! It’s late at night (my worst time of day) and I’ve got to go into the office tomorrow. This is just like a bomb that makes this whole situation feel so much worse.
Leanne, silence is the best treatment for these ACs. They love any reaction. But doo it for yourself, your dignity. You want to get a reaction out of him and are forgetting already that he is not capable of giving the validation you crave or acknowledging his own part. He has shown you that already many time remember? Have you already forgotten his response to your text telling him to leave you alone? As someone said here – take responsibility insofar as recognising you made a mistake – we all do – and that what you are dealing with here is a a high calibre a*hole. You can’t change him. He was an A8hole before you knew him. Go NC. Vent here and let your silence speak for you. You wanting to argue, send emails to his wife etc, are all driven by a need for him to acknowledge his actions and validate that he was wrong and you are good/right. You can get that from yourself. HE IS NOT GOING TO VALIDATE YOUR WORTH FOR YOU. Read the posts on this and the comments above that already speak to this.
p.s. As Nat says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to get a different result.
Hey Leanne, it’s not crazy to want to do all those things (hell I do too often), but it would be crazy to actually do then. Get your anger out here and in unsent letters, but to him all you show is silent dignity. I hope you managed to get some sleep!
Leanne, yes is it crazy and irrational to want to email him and tell him what a piece of shit he is, and tell his wife, and want revenge… and it’s understandable. This phase is pretty much unavoidable and we’ve ALL been through it. As Suki says, it’s the “getting over the asshole phase” and you’re just at the beginning when the rage volcano is threatening to blow every three minutes. Your emotions are all churned up and none of this advice is sinking in yet – all we can do is sigh and watch it happen. Try to make just one promise, ok? Don’t DO anything regarding him. Vent here, journal, beat your pillow, write a nasty letter (not to send) but DO NOT respond to him, her, anybody. Don’t beat yourself up either. Learn from this, LEARN, LEARN!!! You’ll get through this, hon. Ok, advice over. 🙂
Leanne, it’s fine to be irrational here but don’t be irrational with him (or his wife). This means no emailing anybody explaining what beyond AC he is. All you would accomplish is him saying nothing actually happened between you two (which is true) and everything is your active imagination (which I’m 1000pc sure is not). Hence, you’re a psycho who imagines things and a psycho who writes strange emails to pregnant women.
He’s not having amazing life because people with amazing lives don’t pursue other women even after they’ve been told their attentions are no longer wanted. This is indeed a blessing in disguise for you. You no longer need to worry about him bothering you, you’ve seen his very true colours, you’ve learnt an important lesson of leaving any kind of married men alone in every respect and you’ve found BR! 🙂
Spot on Mephista. Every word.
Regarding Bouncing Back: In some ways I’m thinking the term ‘bouncing back’ is a little deceptive. To bounce back from a painful relationship and/or breakup implies that we are regaining ourselves. But if we have learnt something about our own destructive and self sabotaging relationship patterns then when we do finally ‘bounce back’ what we’ve really done is bounced back and beyond. Because we have moved on with more awareness than before. I think part of the struggle is realising that we can’t *go back* to who we were before as if these painful situations never were. We have to understand that these experiences can help us change, can trigger more self awareness. If we have truly bounced back then there will be some change – we are no longer that same person who did x y or z (for e.g I am no longer that woman who ACCEPTED ADVANCES FROM MARRIED MEN; ACCEPTED AMBIGUOUS HOT AND COLD BEHAVIOUR; PEOPLE PLEASED HERSELF INTO OBLIVION ). Bouncing back CAN take a long time, especially if in the bouncing back from a particular situation we are also moving forward into new self awareness.
Agreed. I always feel lighter after I’ve worked through an experience like this.
Even if she believes you, which she won’t, he’ll talk her out of it. Who is she going to believe, some woman she’s never met (I guess?) or her husband, the father of her baby on the way? She may, deep down, believe you, but she’s going to stick w him anyway. And then you’ll just feel worse. She’s just not in a position to leave willy-nilly based on something some woman emails her that she has no proof of.
@Leanne, I was on the train to work when I read your post and all I could say was the F word again and again (dont normally swear but ACs can do that to us) ….I cudnt even type a response right away.
Please do call in sick for a day or two if you need to just digest a bit before going back in.
There is nothing more to be said to this AC, Leanne, he is not your Jim. Unless Jim is a disgusting pig. More later,
Natalie – amazingly worded. This is exactly what I am going through now. My grieving over a current loss of a relationship (after NC for a year) allowed me to process things and get perspective. I realized that my accumulated baggage from 3 past relationships were being tugged simultaneously with this grief. Also because betrayal was the common theme that ran through them all. I had not dealt with my anger from 20 years ago. Its all coming out now…the floodgates have opened. I am finding the baggage flow out of me through every pore! Its unbelievable how light I feel. And that is making me feel so much younger and happier in my heart.A day or two back, I ended NC with asking my ex to piss off, in a firmly worded text, that was sent to warn him that he would face consequences if he continued to text me. I would never have been able to say the things i did before. At last I feel empowered, in control and am starting to take care of me. Your words are a blessing. Thank you.
Hey Lizzp and Rosie, I guess the fact that I thought Colly being called by her AC EUM OM/MM to help him donate showed some real need in the relationship …just goes to show how far low on self esteem I have sunk in recent months…..
@rags mom, there was some real need in the relationship, he did describe me as his best friend and said he told me everything. He didn’t seem to be allowed to have friends of his own outside those that were on his wife’s approved list – so you weren’t totally wrong. The donation help though was just an AC move though, surely his wife should have been the one he turned to for help with that one?
What has dented your self esteem in recent months, I thought things were getting much better for you?
Leanne, I do hope you dont spare another word for the assclown again…but I too hope his wife somehow finds out (from some one else / by accident from AC himself) and that he faces consequences….
its amzing how he sent u that very very horrible text trumpeting how his life with his wife was ‘amazing’ and that he would ‘see you recover’ (does he want a bag of popcorn while he watches???) ….and yet he doesnt fear that you would cause any trouble by tell-alling on the makeouts to ppl at work or even his wife ….this guy doesnt even feel fear let alone guilt and other normal emotions….
@Leanne I agree with the rest of the ladies. Do not text/email this man as that does nothing but prove that whatever you want him to know is not the case, is the case. IT IS FINISHED. He pursued you even when you pulled away in the same manner that we throw out the jerk back yoyo’s for our own amusement. It was for entertainment purposes…nothing more. Don’t worry about him or his wife…trust me, they are fine. Even if you told his wife, they just found out they are expecting. Do you think either one of them are going anywhere anytime soon? This lesson is for YOU. Take your toys and go home on this one….take your toys and go home.
I want to add.
An ex who tried to ruin my new year with an unsolicited text was well dealt with. As much as I have tried to practice the not ‘telling them all about themselves’ approach, and it worked well for a year… I have to say, that every time I was pinged I felt great anger. I needed that distance and control over my anger during NC. But today I feel stronger. A year after NC, he used New Year’s to text me with sloppy sentiment. I decided after 2 days of saying nothing, that it would do me a lot of good to express myself in one final definitive manner.
His new year text had ended with “I hope you don’t find this inappropriate…”
Now this AC, actually screwed me over with my (ex) best friend, who I also gave apiece of my mind to.
To AC’s text I replied…
“Inappropriate is too mild a word. It’s a pathetic joke. In case it hasn’t dawned on you yet, I don’t give a rat’s ass about what you want or wish to do…So spare me your shallow sentiment and spam someone else. You are a just a cowardly, lying, opportunistic, selfish person who cannot be trusted. I’m glad your out of my life and I don’t miss you at all. I’m relieved. But I wish you well, always. Have a great life, and I hope you never have to hi through what I did. S and you truly deserve each other. Happy 2015”
Now that should keep him at bay for a couple of years. If not, I know that he cannot ever ruin my peace again. I do not fear his texts or unwanted intrusion anymore. And something tells me he wont dare to text me again.
I can’t think of a better start to the new year.
Doormat, I totally understand how the displays of tactlessnes and inconsideration, and self servingness (is that even a word lol) of these AC’s, even after months, and years, just get to be too much! Just when we think these guys cant top themselves..
doormat…no more. I bet that felt great!!
I had a resurgent Being as well! A much younger but very ‘wet’ guy (UK readers will understand what I mean here) who has been hanging around on my periphery for a couple of years now. I met him through the last EUM, which is a bad sign in itself.
This guy will come to my church sometimes and stare at me, but won’t say hi in real life – but he will pop up in my gmail online chat box, or he will email me. It’s And it’s very half-arsed; he can’t seem to make up his mind if he wants to ask me out, or just keep in my good books because he needs me as a job referee.
He popped up the other day, and I was quite blunt. I don’t think he will resurge for a while now, if ever again.
Ah, happy release.
Okay, I have to ask, what’s a ‘wet’ guy? 🙂 I’m from the U.S. and a very curious person!
Hugh Grant in every single movie in his younger days. Inarticulate, lame, cowardly, easily flustered, no clear direction, flip flapping, etc.
Got it, thanks!
Hahaha, I like ‘spam someone else’.
@veracity, ljsrmissy…mephista
Yes its the best thing I have done for myself.
It felt like a million dollars:-)
Thanks for your insight everyone. I am feeling (slightly) calmer today and did not email him or his wife or do anything crazy. I am dreading this evening when the crazies will rear their ugly head again, but trying to get through this and process it (before I get back to the task of working on myself).
I think my old post was slightly confusing. MM never said the stuff directly (ie. We’re having an amazing life and I feel sorry for you and will be there for you while I move on), he just implied this in his tone and what he said. Whatever! He is an AC and I am so glad I can see that now!!
He did lead me on and string me along, despite waffling too. So yes, I need to own my part in it and I appreciate that being pointed out. I honestly think with a bit more clarity that what happened was he was pretty happily married, met me at work and we became friends, realized he liked me a lot (as did I him), but didn’t know what to do. Then we tried o just be friends but it got stronger and stronger. I said I’m moving out from bf and he said that’s a good idea. He said he and his wife are really just friends too he just didn’t know what to do about it. I tried to back off and he pursued. But when he continued to waffle, I told him I couldn’t handle this. He pulled back and then pursued over and over. I tried to stay resolute but also thought he was changing his mind and/or trying to decide. I think he really was still trying to figure out what to do until I snapped. Then he thought I was a bit of a psycho or at least a bit infatuated and he couldnt handle leaving his wife so he broke things off. Somewhere along the way he realized he was having a baby (and the whole way along the way he knew at least that they were trying!).
Anyways, I can see now from what others have said that this is just what you get when you mess with a MM. I know I have my blame in getting involved with this guy.
But what gets me now and makes me angry is that he wasn’t forthcoming about what was going on (about the baby), that he was still pursuing me while They were trying to get pregnant, that he acted like I was crazy when I got mad at him in dec and now he acts like he made the best choice and that I am just a pathetic loser who wanted to be with him. I feel like he’s pegged me as a psycho when really, he’s the one who was the total s—t here, no? Again, I know I shouldn’t have been in love with him, that I should have gotten out sooner, and that I shouldn’t expect anything from him since he’s married. I didn’t expect anything from him other than that he make a decision and then be kind about it. Instead he has chosen the face and ego preserving route of acting like it was in my head, like he’s a saint and a great guy, that I’m pathetic for wanting to be with him and will have a hard time moving on.
F— that! I am so ready to move on from this loser. I keep having moments where I feel like he is such a great guy and was so sweet and funny and we had so much fun together. Followed by think he’s disgusting and hating him. What kind of person does this?? Someone with a big ego, a big sense of entitlement, no concern for other peoples’ feelings, selfish, rude, immature and totally EU!! What an AC!!
Anyways, made it through the day without seeing him. I’m looking forward to some more time passing to heal from this . I wish I could take a trip somewhere (anywhere!). Ugh, I feel terrible.
@Leanne,
I am sharing so many of your feelings right now, its a horrible roller coaster. I’m shattered today after waking up at 1.30am and then not being able to get back to sleep because I was ruminating over everything. I went back to work yesterday and was/am upset and angry that he didn’t get in touch, but then would have been upset and angry if he had to – I just can’t win at the moment! Anyway, I know if I’m lacking sleep I’m in for a tough day of it.
I doubt you or I will ever understand the baby thing or what happened along the way, or in fact who these men really were. I know with my ex MM that when he started seeing me he believed he was happy and in the best marriage ever – I knew that this was certainly a delusion in his case, but I do wonder if there are people out there who are just out and out players? I think we just have to try and make peace with ourselves and that if we can the significance of their actions we become less. These are the main points driving me crazy right now:
1. If wife is abusive as alleged then how come she is a better option than me? – not helpful thinking for me I know
2. How can you say you love someone and be trying for a baby with them and then put it about with someone else?
3. I’m struggling with having negative feelings towards him, anger, thinking he’s an AC – I seem to just beat myself up for getting this person wrong and exposing myself to all the bs that drove my self esteem into nothingness, and self blame is then feeding my poor self esteem and leaving me stuck. Somehow I believe I should be Teflon coated (I can hear my mother telling me “you don’t want to let them bother you and don’t ever show them they have”).
Horrible, horrible.
I know what you mean about the taking a trip feeling, I too get this overwhelming urge to run off and do something. I do know though that this feeling in me is me trying to run from my pain.
Good luck today, stay strong.
Oh Leanne. Take your time. This is going to take a while, probably – don’t beat yourself up for not bouncing back fast enough, like the original post says.
It’s hugely painful, this period, but it DOES pass, and you learn such valuable lessons. I had a work crush for years as well, but never let him know, and it blew over, and I just laugh at myself now.
This too will pass. Get some good distraction therapy for the crazies. Go see a movie or something, but DON’T DON’T DON’T break NC and DON’T DON’T DON’T contact his wife or family.
If you must say something, draft an email to your boss explaining about the affair, and explaining in confidence that this is why you will be avoiding Mr Married in future until things settle down.
Thanks. Feeling slightly better this morning, but really up & down. I am so angry at him but also sad and embarrassed. I tried journalling this morning but it was a lot of anger. I hate that I still have to work here! Still looking for a new position.
I feel like he’s sitting in his office feeling sorry for me. What a loser! I am trying to quell my rage with a new slogan, “the best revenge is living a good life.” This is going to be my new mantra while I get over this.
Sorry if I sound immature. The whole thing just makes me so angry and upset. worse that he is smug and condescending about it. They have a great life, tons of money and now a baby on the way. He’s laughing at me thinking I’m sad trying to get over him? What an ass!
I’m going to try to dwell on this as little possible and then rebuild. A great life where I am glad that he’s not in if. Not to stick it to him, but for myself. I wish he could see me move on quickly and feel bad, but he won’t (because of NC and also cus he wouldn’t feel bad anyways). What an ass! Flush!!!
Day 20 of no contact (but for the text on Sunday). if that counts, then day 2.. Working hard on leaving this behind.
Oh yeah, and for now, a new life that does not involve men!
Leanne- Anger is good. It means you’re laying his bad behavior squarely on him where it belongs. The healing process will be shorter than it would be if you blamed yourself for everything. That poor wife and child, having him as a husband and father! My heart breaks for their child. You, dear, dodged a bullet. It’s painful but I’m glad you found out about the baby. It was your wake-up call. If a MM is willing to cheat on the woman he publically pledged his life to, how much worth does the OW have in his eyes? Yes, no more MMs! It’s heartbreak for ALL involved!
Leanne- My reply came out rather insensitively. I’m sorry. 🙁
I’m changing my name to matador.
xo
I’m over here cracking up, doormat!! I almost spit out my beer!
My bounce back rate reached 85% and is now stagnant. I’m STILL dealing with my feelings about the ex f-buddy coworker nearly a year later. It has been two years since my last physical encounter with him (or anyone for that matter), and in the last year, he broke up with the ex for a second time, and began trying to ‘rekindle’ some semblance of a relationship with me. This entails stopping by my office like he used to when we first started working together (albeit not as often), complimenting my appearance, random hugs, and including me when someone is going out to pick up lunch. This a total 180 from his behavior toward me for nearly all of 2013 which consisted of him completely ignoring and avoiding me, basically acting as if I never existed. Some of you may remember the toll it took on my psyche and my self-esteem, and how difficult it was having to see his face at work each day.
So how does one come back from that? Can you really expect someone whom you treated so callously to welcome you back as a ‘friend’? I can’t imagine that he has any idea of the damage he has done, or maybe he does, and just doesn’t give a shit. I am grateful, however, that I was able to tell him how I felt about the whole situation, basically that I was really fucked up with the way things ended between us and that he could have had conversation with me, or said something to let me know he was getting back with his ex and that our fling was over – in an attempt to at least salvage the working relationship. Sounds easy enough, right? Instead he chose the cold, cowardly, fade out approach – knowing that he had to see me at work — every. damn. day. Who does that?
What bothers me now is the fact that I am still affected by things that he says and does, things that I hear from other coworkers about him nearly crashing his car while taking his current girlfriend home to meet his mom on Thanksgiving (he told me a different version of the story, sans girlfriend), taking salsa dancing lessons (again he left her out of the story), and him even intimating that he might be turning in his ‘player card’ often leave me with anxiety that I neither expect nor want to deal with. Why am I not over him, I ask? I’m certain it’s because I haven’t really moved on, haven’t dated anyone, and clearly the idea of ‘facing my attacker’ each day has hindered my ability to recover completely. Sad as it may sound, I still think about him, and I sometimes have romantic dreams about him, and while I can shake off the thoughts, I have no control over the dreams. When I was in the depths of my misery back in 2013, I remember reading something on Baggage Reclaim (I believe it was a post by Wiser) that said “Remember what he said, Remember what he did, and Remember who he is.” Those profound words have kept me grounded anytime my heart wants to try to convince my head that it’s OK to entertain thoughts of him in a positive light. It’s not OK. Still, as I said, I’m dealing with my feelings, which I’m hoarding because I don’t know how to release them.
Sanntay, I remember that posting and I’m very glad it was helpful to you at the time. This brings back memories of me having to sit in all day workshops and trainings led by the ex, and I sat there with a knife in my heart looking at him being smug and successful in his public persona as Mr. Wonderful, Mr. Professional, and I knew all the time what he was really like. I had to go to a lot of these excruciating trainings and meetings and I got through them by repeating to myself as I had to look at him, “Remember what he did, remember what he said and remember who he is.”
Happily the ex is long gone, retired in early 2013, gone from this town and I’ve haven’t seen him in person in over a year. Even so his name pops up among the staff now and then, and there’s still a twinge, even now. I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to see your ex every day at work with no end in sight. I’m truly sorry. Here’s a new mantra that might help: “He’s just some guy, he’s nobody special, he’s not important.” Maybe you can visualize containing him in a little corner of your heart and mind, a tiny little corner, where he still causes a twinge, well, ok, you can’t block him out of your consciousness completely, but you can contain him in a little box where he really can’t hurt you anymore. He’s just a little insignificant blip in a box. You’ll have a momentary twinge, accept it (don’t fight it!) then give a shrug, forget it and move on to other things. Focus on the 95% of your heart and mind that is now free of him!
But yikes, don’t let him hug you! No, no, no! Why does he get to do things that make you feel uncomfortable? You need to be a cordial and professional co-worker, but the ball is still in your court as to how much contact you want to let him have. You may have to spell it out, as I advised Leanne above. Something like “Look, under the circumstances, we cannot be friends and I would prefer that we maintain an entirely professional relationship. I want you to respect this. Thank you.” State what you want clearly! You can do this!! I think once you take a more pro-active approach, you’ll feel more empowered and this will allow you to finally release all of these feelings and see him as he truly is: someone from the past who is no longer important.
Oh Sanntay. I know how you feel. I have trouble moving on as well; I am something of a rigid thinker.
Natalie’s workbook ‘Get Out of Stuck’ might be a help to you; it was to me.
I’m not sure that dating is the answer, because you sound like you haven’t really gotten back in touch with yourself yet. I think you hit the nail on the head with the last sentence – it’s a question of finding a way to release these feelings.
Can you see a counsellor about this? A detached third party, in real life, can be a huge help, even just for a few sessions of letting-it-all-out, and then some practical coaching on moving on.
Sanntay,
True words by Wiser (toward end of your last paragraph) re remembering as that prevents while forgetting continues the repetition i.e remembering prevents, forgetting repeats. Latter was something I learned via a forgiveness course I had undertaken last year and has stuck with me too. It definitely puts one back on track when the fantasising/imaginings creep back in.
Not sure why you seem to be listening still/giving the time of day to his life’s commentary as I am sure this is hindering your progress (hard enough having to see him daily at work). Nat has a very good article on how to be/treat the ex in the workplace (can’t remember the article so please do have a search around if you are wanting more information there).
And keep releasing your feelings here on BR (and finding some other avenues where you are able to talk openly and freely of your wound and hurt) as in time the intensity will lessen. Therapy and journelling worked for me so perhaps give either/both a try.
happy b, I couldn’t respond to your post; we must have hit some sort of a limit on reply’s or something. I’m happy to continue the conversation here if you like.
No worries Veracity. I’ve learned a lot from our conversation!
Wiser, Ethelreda the Unready, and Gina: Thank you, thank you, thank you for your insights! I really needed the objective opinions of those who can relate, as I’ve burdened my sister and best friend long enough. I actually made a new year’s resolution to stop lamenting this issue (at least out loud), but it’s still eating away at me, so now I have taken to talking to myself (only when alone, of course) as well as venting here on BR.
Wiser, the new mantra you suggested will also be put into effect and all touching will cease. I realize that it is solely my own actions/non-actions stunting my healing, because I need to set some stringent boundaries. What is preventing me from doing so is a profound fear of returning to that “you are nothing and you don’t exist” stance, where he goes out of his way to avoid and ignore me. It was one of the most difficult and painful situations I’ve ever experienced and I really I don’t want to have to endure that treatment again. And the curiosity of coworkers with their questions about what happened, did we have a falling out, ‘why aren’t you guys talking anymore’, is like salt on the wound, so I’d rather circumvent that, if possible. I know that I can’t control everything and that I shouldn’t even care about him ignoring me, but because I am the only female on this team, and I get along great with every other staff member, I don’t want to bring any unnecessary drama/negativity to the workplace and make it suck for everyone else. As far as I know, no one here knows of our history and I would not trust anyone with such information — I cannot speak to whether he has told anyone of our fling, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he had. I will not let him chase me away from my job, but I also know that this is not a healthy environment either way you slice it.
Ethelreda, thanks for the lead on the Get Out of Stuck Guide. Natalie’s insights are always just what I need, so I’m sure it will prove useful. I met with a therapist several times during the height of the aftermath, and a few times last year, just to check in, as I had been doing so well with my recovery and the emotional breakdowns began to diminish. It helped me a lot, and I know just takes time, so, as it appears, I need lots of it.
Gina, I read the previous BR article on the workplace ex, and it was very insightful. I printed it so that I can refer to it until it sinks in completely. Remembering definitely Prevents, because when I have those mushy feelings about him I tell myself: ‘remember how he hurt you, remember how many nights you woke up at 3:00 am crying in pain, remember all those hurtful and insulting things he said to you, remember all the crying on the way to and from work,’ and that’s usually enough to snap me back to reality. There’s no way I’m forgetting all that. And ultimately, I need to just stop being a wuss, tell him to keep his hands to himself, and make a conscious effort to always be too busy to engage when he comes around, so that I don’t have to hear his lies of omission and perfunctory ‘commentary’.
Leanne, Jedigirl, Colly,and most of all Natalie – how come when I read these posts, its as if I have *finally* found a place to rest my heavy heart, my racing mind and my broken self esteem? If only I had found it earlier!
All your stories ring true – I have hated myself, struggled with NC with a married AC who turned out to be having multiple affairs, lying about them until he no longer could and then rubbing my nose in it by actually phoning other women when I was still in bed with him, just moments after having sex. Repeatedly. Believe me, I can hardly believe it when I write it and I think I lied to myself as well as there were times when I think my self respect were so low I embarrassed myself. And I told so few people because of this.
Like so many people say though – after some good NC, a little text messages pops up wishing you a merry christmas, or happy new year and suddenly I wonder – what to do? I was even considering being ‘friends’….
we talk about NC, but the Teflon coated point is also important. Does one bother to say – listen pal, Im still hurt, you were an AC.
Or does one pretend to be cool, not to care etc? I tried the latter at first, almost convincing myself I didnt care, I was fine, and then ended up back in bed with the AC and then felt so trapped it took even longer to unravel myself.
what does one do – it it worth telling an AC one is sensitive/still hurt/disappointed at his behaviour?
or is it better to pretend to be over it and have moved on?
One last thing – I find I am too scared, afraid of him and what he might say and how I might feel, to say: get lost and leave me along, you AC! I tried before and I dont think I slept for days. He replied with something funny (ie ignored the crux of the message) and I felt relieved he did.
Dear Natalie,
it’s been 3 months since my break up after a 2 years relationship. I was living with him and his family (I am a foreigner in his country) and I left him because he cheated me, he started a relationship with his insurance man sister, lying to both of us as well as his family. I returned home but stayed in touch with his sister, she took always my side as his parents as well and they helped me, even through break up I stayed at his sister’s house and even his mum told me I could go and live with them and she would throw him out. I will always feel gratitude for them or that is what I thought. I asked sister never to tell me anything about him,but some days ago she told me out of guilt that her family met the new girl, the one he cheated me with, actually both families left and they are engaged… 3 months after our break up. I feel angry, with anyone. I know he is their kid but accepting his wrongs, at the moment I feel like everyone is laughing behind my back. With sister we were really almost best friends, I love her very much but after the news I do want to cut contact with her and I did, without explanation. I feel guilty though because I know how good a person she is, and it is not her fault but it is really difficult for me and her words still hurt me, that the new girl and her family are soooo good. I don’t want to be ungrateful for their support but I was doing better and this news brought me back to the beginning.
I’ve read several comments in which the ladies have said things along the lines of, “He said his wife was abusive.” I’m reading an excellent book right now called, “Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft. This (and several other sources I have read) states that when a man accuses his wife (or former partner) of abuse and then mistreats you, it is very probable that HE was the one being abusive in the previous, or primary, relationship. It is a form of projection when they then turn around and accuse the partner or ex-partner of abuse. They are really describing their own behaviors. Not to say that men can’t be the victim of bad relationships, too, but this is a very, very common scenario. Speaking from experience, my last ex was an abuser and he always described his ex-wife as a controlling b**** who was abusive towards him. Keep your eyes open when men use this line, it may well be a manipulative ploy.
Very nicely written article. Sometimes it’s very hard to let go even when you know a relationship is bad for you.I’d recommend Beverly Aneta’s “When the Frog You Kissed isn’t a Prince”. Great motivator for letting go with your head held high!