Annie from The Adventures of Genuine Annie shares some great insights into the disconnected world of Mr Unavailable, the relationships he has after you break up, and what they mean about him. It’s a great reminder that we shouldn’t romanticise or envy the relationships we think he has with others.
Meet Alan, sex addict, woman hater.
Married for 20 years, cheated. Girlfriend for 6 years. Cheated.
Stopped snorting coke and drinking. Met a woman who doesn’t do drugs or drink. Continued his obsessive behavior, but this time by being a workaholic.
Married again now for 2 years, doesn’t cheat (so far), but talks about going to whores. His wife knows NOTHING of his past, what he is really like, what his sexual preferences are, nothing. She doesn’t ask questions and he doesn’t tell her.
They don’t have what passes for a relationship except in that they share a house at night and part of the weekend.
He is STILL an emotionally unavailable man (EUM or Mr Unavailable). Even though he isn’t cheating, he isn’t available.
Meet Jason, married 20 years, wife cheated on him because she said he was cold and self-centered. Immediately began to date after they split up. Dumped girlfriend number 1 after 3 months, was dating girlfriend number 2 within two more weeks. Dumped her after a year. Started dating girlfriend number three within a week.
Simply doesn’t form attachments. Pleasant, polite, monogamous clean cut, makes a good living, well-educated, loves his kids, even tempered, good sense of humor, reliable, responsible – all things that add up to nothing because they don’t translate to loving a woman…
What you get emotionally on date number 1 is all you’ll be getting on date number 100. Was an EUM with the wife, is an EUM with the girlfriends.
Meet Steven, married three times. Successful real estate agent even in this difficult market. Says each of his exes are crazy. Player, slept around, didn’t let a woman spend the night at his house ever, felt any lie was justified as long as it got them into his bed, targeted single Moms because he felt they were desperate to get out of the house and be taken out for dinner…
Married again, wife number 4 who is in her late 40’s was very up front about wanting a man who was financially stable and successful enough to support her. Peter brings her his financial statements, says to her he is willing and able to take care of her.
Peter balks at buying a nice engagement ring, Peter balks at paying for a wedding, they go to a justice of the peace instead. Peter balks at paying for a honeymoon. Peter has her pay him $3,000 a month for her expenses – her car, insurance, her trainer at the gym, groceries, etc.
When she confronts him about his promise to take care of her financially, he says “saying it and doing it are two different things.” Then tells her that he is going to file for divorce if she keeps pressuring him – they’ve only been married 2 months.
Was an EUM before, is still an EUM.
Ladies, these are three classic examples. It isn’t different for him with the woman he will be with AFTER you.
He was dysfunctional BEFORE he met you, while he was with you, and he isn’t going to morph into a healthy, loving, available good guy with the next woman.
It won’t be any different for her. Whatever were the things that you noticed that were his behavior patterns/method of communication or lack of it/ ability to be play head games, break promises, lie, blow hot and cold, be ambiguous, manage your expectations down, etc that will still be there.
So your survival lies in recognizing what he is doing/what his actions show/how he is treating you early on; not investing in a fantasy of how he will change and believing you should just take it slow and be understanding. You can’t be pining afterwards for the man he ‘used to be (which was mainly in your imagination) because people don’t change from great guys to assclowns. They were assclowns all along who finally let their real colors show and you must be willing to do NO CONTACT, mean it, and move on, because you deserve better than a EUM who can only waste the precious months or years of your life as long as you let him.
Ask questions early on. Don’t assume. Be observant. And don’t think the past woman or the next woman had it much different than you did and that he is going to love her the way you always wanted him to love you.
Patterns don’t lie. Don’t be contemptuous or envious – You just haven’t heard their story from HER side.
I’m a big fan of The Adventures of Genuine Annie so do stop by and find our more from a woman who has got very wise about loving herself and letting go of relationships with Mr Unavailables.
Wow, thank you. My ex was JASON. Married for 12 years, his ex-wife cheated on him and left him for an emotionally connected man. He was with me for over a year, then cheated on me to start dating whoever he’s with now. Thank you for dampening my fears that he’s now, or will someday be, a great guy instead of an assclown. It’s so true that I built up a fantasy of who he ‘used to be’ – or who I wanted him to be – and yet, he never was that guy.
ugh1215
on 29/08/2008 at 6:05 pm
This article was like a drink of water in the desert!! I am dealing with this RIGHT NOW and have been tormenting myself about how certain I am that he will turn into the man I wanted with the next woman. I have got to speak this truth to myself over and over again…”He was dysfunctional BEFORE he met you, while he was with you, and he isn’t going to morph into a healthy, loving, available good guy with the next woman.” The head games brought on by my own imagination are almost as crazy making as he has been. Thank you…this is exactly what I needed to read on day five of NC. It has strengthened my resolve.
Loving Annie
on 29/08/2008 at 5:46 pm
Stacy,
No he wasn’t ever a great guy – as his wife showed by leaving him…
This is a hard one for us. We get so emotionally invested in our hopes/beliefs/need for a “Prince’ , that it becomes a habit.
Blaming yourself and exonerating him is just another way of staying attached.
Seeing him and how he behaves clearly is really important to the letting go process. Knowing he is who he is and was and will be lets the rose colored glasses come off.
Whoever comes afterwards won’t have it better.
(Ever read any of the stories of the 9-1-1 calls from OJ Simpson’s blonde girlfriend in the last 5 years ? – this is just an extreme example, but a salient one…)
annied
on 29/08/2008 at 11:36 pm
I second ugh’s response! I’m on day 11 of NC and it’s been rough today. I’ve had to pinch myself to keep from crying at work.
His last gf (yes he actually accepted her as a gf) and he dated for 6 years and even lived together. She “broke his heart” and left him for another guy, is married and has kids. He’s still chain-smoking and playin online games 24/7.
I often wondered if he was different with her. If she was more special than me. He told me he didn’t want to be a bf … well, he was with her! What was wrong with me? All I’ve done since day one is beat myself up emotionally when he wasn’t beating me up emotionally.
Even now I see pretty, younger women (i am older than he is by 10 yrs) and think – oh he’d like her better than me. I’ve never felt so worthless. Because he doesn’t want to “raise another man’s children”, he has me feeling like something is “wrong” with me because I have them and love them so much.
I need to read more articles like these. He is rotten – was rotten and always will be rotten. Why can’t I use those rose-colored glasses when I look in the mirror?
Thanks for some much needed morale boosting!
Loving Annie
on 29/08/2008 at 11:32 pm
Ugh,
Glad that it helped. 🙂
May it get you through to 5 weeks of NO CONTACT, 5 months and then 5 years…
Our own imaginations can only torture us when we don’t know better.
Here is to learning what makes you healthy and feel centered !
ivyowl
on 30/08/2008 at 12:48 am
I went though this. Steve, after telling me he can’t fall for ANYONE, again left me to go exclusive with another girl he was dating.
God it hurts! It hurts he wanted her over me. It hurts that I was apparently such worthless garbage that he’d lose me for good without blinking an eye and for something he says a week later that he is not even sure will work out!!!!!
The night he broke up he told me that he didn’t “have it” for anyone..not even her. Well I feel like if he didn’t have it for her he must REALLY not have it for me!
She is another EU enabler, married three times. She waited all this time for him to commit to her again. She might keep him this time.
In a way I hope she DOES keep him, because I still work for the guy and I can’t do the no contact thing. Him having her will protect me from him coming back and me becoming the fallback girl again.
In a way I hope he falls flat on his face with it. I hope they both do. But that is really only my hurt pride talking.
annied
on 30/08/2008 at 3:52 am
(((ivyowl))) I’m sorry.
ivyowl
on 30/08/2008 at 4:00 am
Thanks annied.
ugh1215
on 30/08/2008 at 4:08 am
Ivyowl, I can’t imagine working in the situation you’re in. I’m so sorry.
Loving Annie
on 30/08/2008 at 4:58 am
Annie D,
The gf didn’t want him. Clearly, since she (now) has kids / is married – she didn’t see him as a good potential father, or a good mate for herself.
He was only ‘pseudo-available’ to her for those 6 years because she didn’t want him ! If she had, I suspect he would have run, just like he ran from you.
I would highly doubt that he was the man you think he was with her – if he WAS she wouldn’t have been so willing to give him the boot !
She wasn’t more special than you, except maybe in her own eyes. She knew this guy was no good and that she wanted and deserved better.
Feeling worthless is so painful. Especially to think so highly of him, and so little of yourself . The balance is off. It might be better the other way around 🙂
There is nothing at all wrong with you to have children and love them. You are capable of and demonstrating genuine consistent love, which is a very worthy attribute.
He sounds totally selfish . It isn’t impressive. Rotten is a very accurate description.
It sounds like you need some enormous nurturing on a very deep level to heal those wounds.. My empathy.
Learning how to be kinder to yourself , how you see yourself, and how you speak to yourself, and how you protect yourself in the future from letting an assclown violate your boundaries. will be really important for you…
May day 11 become day 111 and then month 111.
He didn’t deserve you, (although you can’t see that yet, I can and I bet all of your friends can) and your kids don’t deserve to ahve a man in their life who treats their mom like dirt. They are waaaaaay better off without him too..
Loving Annie
on 30/08/2008 at 5:09 am
IvyOwl,
He spoke the truth. He CAN’T fall for anyone. Won’t. Doesn’t, and is incapable of it.
She won’t keep him – she will simply have a loveless period of time until he abandons her once again for someone else he can abandon too.
He has HUGE problems – and that has has nothing to do with you. You are anything but worthless garbage. This man would toss away ANYONE. Nobody wins with this man – he is an emotional black hole.
Of course it hurts anyway. You had dreams of who he could be, and acknowledging that they didn’t become real is painful.
We don’t let go of our fantasies easily, until we learn we would rather have reality.
I think NML has suggestions / an article for what to do when you work with a EUM and how you handle the contact issue. It was a very clever way around the problem when you are in the same office. Boundaries can still exist.
Now that we know what fallback women are – and what EUM’s are – we never have to go that route again with those men.
FoolishGirl
on 30/08/2008 at 7:42 am
Ivyowl, I know exactly how you feel. My eum was dating someone for 5+ years when we started up, then she broke up with him, and I for sure thought I would have my chance to be legitimate. But he made excuses after excuses about why he couldn’t be with me. That he and his gf just broke up and he needed time. That I picked fights too much (which only occured BECAUSE I kept asking him where we stood), etc. Then, BAM, he gets a new gf…..why is it that he didn’t need time for her? I know what’s it like to not understand why they think the way they do. Why her and not me? I have asked and asked that same question for months. It had literally destroyed what little self esteem I had. I don’t have anything too helpful to say, other than I know how you feel. The only thing I can tell you is that he is really unhappy with this new gf. Not only through his subtle words (still talk to him), but also through his actions. The same patterns that he had with the prior gf are surfacing…..never with her, lies about his whereabouts, questioning why he is still with her (to me nonetheless), clings to one flaw/fault of hers and uses that as his reason why things aren’t really working out with her. But with all that said, he is still with her. So, take that for what it is worth. I somewhat revel in the fact that he is so unhappy and that he does not have the capacity for real love and emotion.
It’s hard not to take it personally when he says he is incapable of love with *anyone* but can be legitimately and seemingly committed to other people. What kills me the most is that I never got that – I never got the legitimacy of relationship. I understand that it’s all a facade anyways, but it doesn’t mean it hurts any less. I get that he’s not really committed to these other people, but at least in my mind, he gave them a chance, whereas he just told me without even giving it a shot, “It’s not going to work. You deserve more than me. I am too messed up. I can’t give you what you want right now. I don’t want to lose your friendship. Blah blah blah….”
Loving Annie
on 30/08/2008 at 2:58 pm
Foolish girl,
you wrote that one directly to me ! Certainly mirrored my situation with my EUM that brought me to NML’s blog many months ago. Thank you for writing that – you have no idea how much good it did me… Even now, the words help.
Maybe you were just too healthy for him…
It does hurt when they choose someone else instead of you and you have been waiting so patiently. It is incomprehensible. BUT I know that my EUM will choose an alcoholic all over again, someone who is manipulative and self-centered and selfish and plays head games, . JUST LIKE HE DOES.
So maybe… they find someone who is like them dysfunctionally – and that is their punishment…
And you were just too healthy, even if you were doing fallback women things, you were still healthier than him, and he can’t go there.
He isn’t committed to anyone. When your heart knows that along with your brain, you will breathe a shudder of relief and know INSIDE that you deserved much better – and be very glad you’re attracting it.
ivyowl
on 30/08/2008 at 4:04 pm
Thanks everyone for your kind posts.
Annie: Reading over these posts, and based on a few things my EUM has said, I am beginning to draw the same conclusion.
As WE are sometimes compelled to date these losers even though they are bad for us, in the same way, THEY might be experiencing the same kind of complusion, and unhealthy patterns of relating.
I know my EUM has a long dating history where many many women(apparently healthier and smarter then I) walked out on him when he would not commit. I know because he mentioned these women often, sometimes calling them to find out they had married and were happy now…etc. These women were something too apparently( some of them). Two were models, one with a reconizable name. One was very wealthy. I am sure there were several others.
So I asked him: “How did Valerie get you to go exclusive ?” And he said
” I don’t know, I am still trying to figure it out.”
So maybe he just got sucked into a certain (unhealthy)type. She was married three times and probably blamed everything on her ex’s. Knowing him, and some of the things he said about her, she is NOT right for him as far as marriage goes. But and he is convinced she never wants to marry again so he is safe with her
. But I think she WILL compell him to marry, just as she compelled him to be exclusive(as she is a Catholic) and he is headed for a bad marriage and divorce.
And I HOPE it is as miserable as a marriage can get!!!!
What Anne said is a theory that makes sence to me. THEY can be attracted to the wrong people too. Right? Just like us?
It still hurts. Alot. I am trying to build myself up with self esteem affirmations. I try to also affirm that I am moving on to better, and trying to fight the very urge to give up on dating and love.
annied
on 30/08/2008 at 4:51 pm
Thanks Loving Annie. You’re right. The balance is off – as it is with all of the relationships written about here. and what you wrote to Foolishgirl:
“And you were just too healthy, even if you were doing fallback women things, you were still healthier than him, and he can’t go there.”
I think you hit it on the head for all of the women (or men) here. Even though I feel unhealthy myself, I KNOW that I am more healthy than he is! Maybe if I work on getting healthier myself, I wont get so easily sucked into the unhealthiness of others … at least I hope.
and Ivyowl – keep posting on how you are doing. I work with my exEUM as well. With each break-up (oh, there have been many) it gets a little bit harder to get up and go to work in the morning. I’m looking for another job – hope you do too.
Stacy
on 30/08/2008 at 5:05 pm
The idea that we may be healthier than the EUMs is interesting and is probably quite true.
In my case, I definitely saw myself as healthy, mature, ready for a long term relationship, and understood the importance and value of communication. My EUM, on the other hand, is severely handicapped in the communication and EQ realms.
My learning has been that I am not *as healthy* as I liked to believe. Why I would stay with someone who showed me time and time again that he couldn’t communicate says a lot about my own dysfunction. So I am working on that with a counselor.
Still, it is possible that my EUM knew at some level that I would not be happy, over the longer term, with him. A year into our relationship, we were already starting to mimic some of the patterns from his marriage. So he may have run away from me because he knew eventually I would have done just what his ex-wife did: reject him. Then again, such a decision would have required a degree of self-awareness that I am still not sure my EUM possesses. He really does not seem to know himself, and admitted as much the day we broke up. He seemed just as baffled by his behavior (cheating & dumping me) as I was.
FoolishGirl
on 30/08/2008 at 6:32 pm
I think what all of you are saying is true. There are times when my eum would allow little truthful (and you can always tell when there is some kind of sincerity in their voice since it comes so few and far between) thoughts to come out.
He has told me that he thinks that I will one day realize that he’s not that great. He had his heart broken years ago, and he had told me that since then, he will never allow himself to be vulnerable again. Of course, when I bring this all up, he doesn’t remember saying it. Go figure. But I think him not committing is a way of protecting his heart. I try to make myself feel better by thinking that he is with the others because they don’t matter. Of course, this probably isn’t true, but it makes me feel better :-).
They, to some degree, know that they are devoid of any emotion and feeling. Just recently, he has told me that he feels nothing (in regards to his life, his career, his relationships, etc.). I can only really feel sorry for him.
Loving Annie
on 31/08/2008 at 1:47 am
I think just as we find men that mirrors how we feel about ourselves :
I have negative and critical self-talk – and I find someone who talks negatively and critically to me.
I abandon myself by not having healthy boundaries and very little self-esteem – and I find someone who abandons me.
I don’t love myself by knowing I have value and refusing to settle for crumbs – I find someone who doesn’t love me or value me and only gives me crumbs.
THEY FIND WOMEN WHO SHOW THEM WHO THEY ARE
They are emotionally unavailable – they find women whose specific dysfuctions ultimately mirror theirs.
If they are not givers, chances are they will pick a selfish woman.
If they are manipulators, chances are they will pick a woman who plays head games.
If they are liars and promise breakers, chances are they will pick someone irresponsible and unreliable.
So this is who they will be attracted to, pine over, grieve over, believe they are a victim of.
I want to modify my original thought that we are possibly healthier than they are.
I belive we want to stop being fallback women and find solutions and change ourselves and our ways of thinking and acting to become healthier and truly have available relationships – and they may not want to do any of that or feel they have any need to change.
We simply have differing levels of dysfunctions OR different dysfunctions. And we choose different people as our mirrors for how we feel about ourselves – or how we behave.
I think bottom line is that these men – or women – are oour opportunity to see what we have been doing and attracting – and thus behave differerntly in the future and begin to be healthier in our choices, doing the things that support us, rather than the things that don’t.
So…. he will choose his next woman based on who he is.
You may have treated him great and loved him but that isn’t what his priority is, no mattert what his words are.
His priority subconsciously is to find someone who mirrors him. And he does. And if she doesn’t, he leaves her.
And if she does mirror what an assclown he is — he hurts over her like we have hurt over them… His pain and his incomprehension is over who he picks, just like ours has been.
So don’t envy her. If she’s healthy and loving and has her head on straight and takes responsibility for her actions and doesn’t put up with crap, she’ll leave him. If she’s a sick puppy that mirrors him (and yes, there are women who are screwed up too) – it is his karma coming to roost, his mirror. This is his next woman when he hasn’t done the years of hard work and realizations that lead to change…..
lisaq
on 31/08/2008 at 1:15 am
I’m a little late but I just want to say nicely done! The pining away and wondering about what the next girl has that you didn’t is excruciating. I did it once and once was more than enough. The next thing I knew he had moved on to another and now still another. Leopards just don’t change their spots do they?
aoide
on 04/09/2008 at 5:11 pm
OMG, how am I only noticing this post now ?
well done Annie 🙂
Darcy
on 15/10/2008 at 8:46 am
I am so glad that I stumbled across this website. I cannot tell all of you ladies how reading your comments have helped me to accept the fact that I made the right decision ending my relationship with my EU boyfriend. (heavy sigh) It saddens me but at the same time empowers me to read about the strength that follows from taking a stand in our relationships where we are giving away so much of ourselves, our hearts and our love to someone who isn’t capable of love or is choosing to be self-centered and selfish with their heart & emotions. Ending my relationship has put me into a depression for the last 8 weeks, but I know, without a doubt that I did the right thing. Thank you for sharing your stories and your thoughts on this site. I think of you as little angles here to help me get through a dark time.
Peace
Darcy
catbrooke
on 07/08/2009 at 4:22 pm
FOOLISH GIRL, what you said here:
“He has told me that he thinks that I will one day realize that he’s not that great. He had his heart broken years ago, and he had told me that since then, he will never allow himself to be vulnerable again. Of course, when I bring this all up, he doesn’t remember saying it. Go figure. But I think him not committing is a way of protecting his heart. I try to make myself feel better by thinking that he is with the others because they don’t matter. Of course, this probably isn’t true, but it makes me feel better :-).
They, to some degree, know that they are devoid of any emotion and feeling. Just recently, he has told me that he feels nothing (in regards to his life, his career, his relationships, etc.). I can only really feel sorry for him.”
OMG!!!! I think we dated the same person. Seriously, where do you live? I live in NYC. No its just weird because my EUM said the EXACT same words to me. The first time I saw him after breaking up with him the first time, after 2 months, he got REALLY drunk and said…I loved you..” earlier the same night he said, “you think you love me but you wouldn’t love who I really am…I have no Self…I have no sense of self worth in any area of my life…so who you love, who you think i am, thats not me” and also “I’ll never open myself up to love after my ex…” he used to say “love is nothing but a piece of paper torn to bits”
doesnt sound like i described very well in this post..but the similarities are uncanny..when i finally broke it off with him, he said “I understand. Believe me I do. I wish I could be around more, take you out proper, but I’m not. I can’t expect you to do this forever.”
and “i always thought you would find someone better than me.”
thoughts?
tee
on 16/03/2010 at 12:01 am
What a relief !. I was with EUM for a year of intense over the top attention – constant emails, calls, trips, flowers delivered to office, lavish dinners, the whole works — followed by year of distancing, broken appointments, managing down expectations — way way down — but still popping in often enough to keep me wondering. Calling, but no plans, unwilling to acknowledge any issue or problems. The very occasional plan either invariably canceled or outright forgotten w/o explanation. Finally started to let go, and started thinking about wife #1, who left abruptly leaving one of every household item behind, then wife #2 who fell into drinking cycles. Should’ve seen the red flags thrown down, yet of course I was certain my situation would be different. Am grateful, finally, to be pulled out of the destructive cyclone of detachment – this post really helped put that into perspective (and yes, stifle the still occasional pangs) thank you!!
Verna
on 09/05/2010 at 1:15 pm
“Ask questions early on. Don’t assume. Be observant. And don’t think the past woman or the next woman had it much different than you did and that he is going to love her the way you always wanted him to love you.
Patterns don’t lie. Don’t be contemptuous or envious – You just haven’t heard their story from HER side.”
Does this mean that the ex he almost killed himself over, he didn’t actually love her more than he loved me?
JJ
on 09/05/2010 at 6:37 pm
Tee
You made some interesting points.. We have to look at all the red flags. The past ex wife that he is now divorced. Her being the bitch they my ex narcissists made me to believe right after we started going out. His ex girlfriend that he constantly talked about in a bad way but knew he was the one with the issues.. That right there was my clue… Not having a right relationship by with his kids by his ex wife. Not having a normal relationship with his family; sisters or brothers. He led me to believe that they were the bad ones immediately after we met. He was a complete socio path and I now I know that. If I had known then what I know now… we would have been done after our first date. They always appear to be the gentlemen that they are not!! So take notes ladies… when they talk about they’re wife that appears to be now an EX WIFE (run!!!)
Olivia
on 09/05/2010 at 8:33 pm
JJ..It’s very interesting that you have highlighted the past relationships of the narcissist /EUM as these as you say are the red flags to pay attention to! When I met my EUM he was full of toxic rants about the bitches who were his ex partners,mothers of his children. Oh how charmed and seduced I was, believing I was the first girl he really connected with! Haha, what foolishness. As of course to his next partner I will be just another psycho ex, not worthy of his commitment. They really will not change and if you look back and look forward all you’ll see is the same assclown behaviour and the same women throwing themselves in to the fire to be close to them. It really is so sad. They are like leeches, hurtling through life doing irreversible damage, sucking on others emotions and spirit. As you say. Run!!!
JJ
on 09/05/2010 at 10:30 pm
Olivia
Yea and i can almost bet that I have already been talked about as the psycho to whoever he has preyed upon since our breakup. I feel bad for whoever she is cause these type of men repeat the same things over and over again. Same games; same lies; just a different player. They are incapable of having a committment with any type of woman regardless of how good she looks. It just took me a while to recognize what i was dealing with and i guess that’s why when i broke it off with him he turned Dr. Jekyle and Mr. Hyde.. That what’s narcissists do once they realize that you have found them out. They are embarrassed. As soon as the relationship; sex; and whatever wears off with whomever he’s with the traits and red flags will begin to start once again and then he’s ready to ESCAPE… And especially if she’s no longer catering to his financial needs…. Since our breakup I have been reading up on personality disorders and narcissists men. Everything that I have read up on; I have experienced with him. I pray to God that I never have to deal with this type of man. Cause the thing is you won’t know it by his looks… God has to give you the wisdom to acknowledge what you are dealing with and what to look out for when you are approached by these type of men because he approached me. It took me a minute to even start liking him to wanna move forward with a second or third date. They say follow your first mind and maybe thats what i should have done but I didn’t and a year later I am back to another relationship that ended all because I was with someone that i thought I knew was right for me but he wasn’t. He wasn’t even on my level and he didn’t deserve to be in my life. They say some people are meant to come into our lives for a season but we try to keep them there by making them FREE AGENTS ( they use us up; until we have nothing left and then they bounce onto the next WOMAN for their supply). 2 months NCR and I have never felt so much PEACE around me.. Dating this type of man can even have an after effect on a woman to where they loose all their self esteem and feel like something is wrong with them. I refused to give him that much satisfaction over my life. On to a happier healthier me who’s waiting on the right man that’s capable of loving…
Olivia
on 10/05/2010 at 10:12 am
Yep so true, as soon as the illusion bursts for you it bursts for them also and they start backing off fairly sharpish..
Very apt that you mentioned some people are meant to come into your life for only a season, as to spend your whole life with a narcississt would be like having a death sentence, however why then do so many of us cling on to them, the harder they pull away the more we try and tighten the hold?? It is like holding water in cupped hands, they simply slip away and there is nothing you can do about it. Unfortunately as you pointed out after they are gone we feel worthless, with some serious self esteem issues and an emotional black hole for a heart.. I am having a paticularly bad time today and woke up feeling very depressed about my EUM so am on here trying to gain some strength by reading the posts of others as I don’t have faith in my life to get me through. Only people and I do take a lot of comfort form the fact that so many other women seem to have gone through what I have.
RoseTigger
on 09/05/2010 at 10:32 pm
Why have I only just noticed this post???
It’s so true. My EUM cheated on his wife with me – he told me she was a vindictive control freak. We dated, he blew hot and cold, he lied, he let me down, he chased other women so I dumped him. He chased me for 2 months of no contact, promised that he loved me and had learnt by his mistakes. I gave him one last chance to prove he loved me and things would be different. They weren’t and I found out he was still sleeping with someone else so I dumped him again. Of course she knew nothing about me so he’s been cheating on her. Guess who he’s calling the vindictive control freak now??? Yup – me!!! lol
Let this be a warning…. THEY DO NOT CHANGE SO NEVER GO BACK!!!!
JJ
on 09/05/2010 at 10:45 pm
and today is Mother’s Day. I can almost bet that he doesn’t even have the BALLS to call his ex wife who has his two children(that he never sees) to say Happy Mother’s day. Total waste of a man and a complete dead beat… No other way to explain him.
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Wow, thank you. My ex was JASON. Married for 12 years, his ex-wife cheated on him and left him for an emotionally connected man. He was with me for over a year, then cheated on me to start dating whoever he’s with now. Thank you for dampening my fears that he’s now, or will someday be, a great guy instead of an assclown. It’s so true that I built up a fantasy of who he ‘used to be’ – or who I wanted him to be – and yet, he never was that guy.
This article was like a drink of water in the desert!! I am dealing with this RIGHT NOW and have been tormenting myself about how certain I am that he will turn into the man I wanted with the next woman. I have got to speak this truth to myself over and over again…”He was dysfunctional BEFORE he met you, while he was with you, and he isn’t going to morph into a healthy, loving, available good guy with the next woman.” The head games brought on by my own imagination are almost as crazy making as he has been. Thank you…this is exactly what I needed to read on day five of NC. It has strengthened my resolve.
Stacy,
No he wasn’t ever a great guy – as his wife showed by leaving him…
This is a hard one for us. We get so emotionally invested in our hopes/beliefs/need for a “Prince’ , that it becomes a habit.
Blaming yourself and exonerating him is just another way of staying attached.
Seeing him and how he behaves clearly is really important to the letting go process. Knowing he is who he is and was and will be lets the rose colored glasses come off.
Whoever comes afterwards won’t have it better.
(Ever read any of the stories of the 9-1-1 calls from OJ Simpson’s blonde girlfriend in the last 5 years ? – this is just an extreme example, but a salient one…)
I second ugh’s response! I’m on day 11 of NC and it’s been rough today. I’ve had to pinch myself to keep from crying at work.
His last gf (yes he actually accepted her as a gf) and he dated for 6 years and even lived together. She “broke his heart” and left him for another guy, is married and has kids. He’s still chain-smoking and playin online games 24/7.
I often wondered if he was different with her. If she was more special than me. He told me he didn’t want to be a bf … well, he was with her! What was wrong with me? All I’ve done since day one is beat myself up emotionally when he wasn’t beating me up emotionally.
Even now I see pretty, younger women (i am older than he is by 10 yrs) and think – oh he’d like her better than me. I’ve never felt so worthless. Because he doesn’t want to “raise another man’s children”, he has me feeling like something is “wrong” with me because I have them and love them so much.
I need to read more articles like these. He is rotten – was rotten and always will be rotten. Why can’t I use those rose-colored glasses when I look in the mirror?
Thanks for some much needed morale boosting!
Ugh,
Glad that it helped. 🙂
May it get you through to 5 weeks of NO CONTACT, 5 months and then 5 years…
Our own imaginations can only torture us when we don’t know better.
Here is to learning what makes you healthy and feel centered !
I went though this. Steve, after telling me he can’t fall for ANYONE, again left me to go exclusive with another girl he was dating.
God it hurts! It hurts he wanted her over me. It hurts that I was apparently such worthless garbage that he’d lose me for good without blinking an eye and for something he says a week later that he is not even sure will work out!!!!!
The night he broke up he told me that he didn’t “have it” for anyone..not even her. Well I feel like if he didn’t have it for her he must REALLY not have it for me!
She is another EU enabler, married three times. She waited all this time for him to commit to her again. She might keep him this time.
In a way I hope she DOES keep him, because I still work for the guy and I can’t do the no contact thing. Him having her will protect me from him coming back and me becoming the fallback girl again.
In a way I hope he falls flat on his face with it. I hope they both do. But that is really only my hurt pride talking.
(((ivyowl))) I’m sorry.
Thanks annied.
Ivyowl, I can’t imagine working in the situation you’re in. I’m so sorry.
Annie D,
The gf didn’t want him. Clearly, since she (now) has kids / is married – she didn’t see him as a good potential father, or a good mate for herself.
He was only ‘pseudo-available’ to her for those 6 years because she didn’t want him ! If she had, I suspect he would have run, just like he ran from you.
I would highly doubt that he was the man you think he was with her – if he WAS she wouldn’t have been so willing to give him the boot !
She wasn’t more special than you, except maybe in her own eyes. She knew this guy was no good and that she wanted and deserved better.
Feeling worthless is so painful. Especially to think so highly of him, and so little of yourself . The balance is off. It might be better the other way around 🙂
There is nothing at all wrong with you to have children and love them. You are capable of and demonstrating genuine consistent love, which is a very worthy attribute.
He sounds totally selfish . It isn’t impressive. Rotten is a very accurate description.
It sounds like you need some enormous nurturing on a very deep level to heal those wounds.. My empathy.
Learning how to be kinder to yourself , how you see yourself, and how you speak to yourself, and how you protect yourself in the future from letting an assclown violate your boundaries. will be really important for you…
May day 11 become day 111 and then month 111.
He didn’t deserve you, (although you can’t see that yet, I can and I bet all of your friends can) and your kids don’t deserve to ahve a man in their life who treats their mom like dirt. They are waaaaaay better off without him too..
IvyOwl,
He spoke the truth. He CAN’T fall for anyone. Won’t. Doesn’t, and is incapable of it.
She won’t keep him – she will simply have a loveless period of time until he abandons her once again for someone else he can abandon too.
He has HUGE problems – and that has has nothing to do with you. You are anything but worthless garbage. This man would toss away ANYONE. Nobody wins with this man – he is an emotional black hole.
Of course it hurts anyway. You had dreams of who he could be, and acknowledging that they didn’t become real is painful.
We don’t let go of our fantasies easily, until we learn we would rather have reality.
I think NML has suggestions / an article for what to do when you work with a EUM and how you handle the contact issue. It was a very clever way around the problem when you are in the same office. Boundaries can still exist.
Now that we know what fallback women are – and what EUM’s are – we never have to go that route again with those men.
Ivyowl, I know exactly how you feel. My eum was dating someone for 5+ years when we started up, then she broke up with him, and I for sure thought I would have my chance to be legitimate. But he made excuses after excuses about why he couldn’t be with me. That he and his gf just broke up and he needed time. That I picked fights too much (which only occured BECAUSE I kept asking him where we stood), etc. Then, BAM, he gets a new gf…..why is it that he didn’t need time for her? I know what’s it like to not understand why they think the way they do. Why her and not me? I have asked and asked that same question for months. It had literally destroyed what little self esteem I had. I don’t have anything too helpful to say, other than I know how you feel. The only thing I can tell you is that he is really unhappy with this new gf. Not only through his subtle words (still talk to him), but also through his actions. The same patterns that he had with the prior gf are surfacing…..never with her, lies about his whereabouts, questioning why he is still with her (to me nonetheless), clings to one flaw/fault of hers and uses that as his reason why things aren’t really working out with her. But with all that said, he is still with her. So, take that for what it is worth. I somewhat revel in the fact that he is so unhappy and that he does not have the capacity for real love and emotion.
It’s hard not to take it personally when he says he is incapable of love with *anyone* but can be legitimately and seemingly committed to other people. What kills me the most is that I never got that – I never got the legitimacy of relationship. I understand that it’s all a facade anyways, but it doesn’t mean it hurts any less. I get that he’s not really committed to these other people, but at least in my mind, he gave them a chance, whereas he just told me without even giving it a shot, “It’s not going to work. You deserve more than me. I am too messed up. I can’t give you what you want right now. I don’t want to lose your friendship. Blah blah blah….”
Foolish girl,
you wrote that one directly to me ! Certainly mirrored my situation with my EUM that brought me to NML’s blog many months ago. Thank you for writing that – you have no idea how much good it did me… Even now, the words help.
Maybe you were just too healthy for him…
It does hurt when they choose someone else instead of you and you have been waiting so patiently. It is incomprehensible. BUT I know that my EUM will choose an alcoholic all over again, someone who is manipulative and self-centered and selfish and plays head games, . JUST LIKE HE DOES.
So maybe… they find someone who is like them dysfunctionally – and that is their punishment…
And you were just too healthy, even if you were doing fallback women things, you were still healthier than him, and he can’t go there.
He isn’t committed to anyone. When your heart knows that along with your brain, you will breathe a shudder of relief and know INSIDE that you deserved much better – and be very glad you’re attracting it.
Thanks everyone for your kind posts.
Annie: Reading over these posts, and based on a few things my EUM has said, I am beginning to draw the same conclusion.
As WE are sometimes compelled to date these losers even though they are bad for us, in the same way, THEY might be experiencing the same kind of complusion, and unhealthy patterns of relating.
I know my EUM has a long dating history where many many women(apparently healthier and smarter then I) walked out on him when he would not commit. I know because he mentioned these women often, sometimes calling them to find out they had married and were happy now…etc. These women were something too apparently( some of them). Two were models, one with a reconizable name. One was very wealthy. I am sure there were several others.
So I asked him: “How did Valerie get you to go exclusive ?” And he said
” I don’t know, I am still trying to figure it out.”
So maybe he just got sucked into a certain (unhealthy)type. She was married three times and probably blamed everything on her ex’s. Knowing him, and some of the things he said about her, she is NOT right for him as far as marriage goes. But and he is convinced she never wants to marry again so he is safe with her
. But I think she WILL compell him to marry, just as she compelled him to be exclusive(as she is a Catholic) and he is headed for a bad marriage and divorce.
And I HOPE it is as miserable as a marriage can get!!!!
What Anne said is a theory that makes sence to me. THEY can be attracted to the wrong people too. Right? Just like us?
It still hurts. Alot. I am trying to build myself up with self esteem affirmations. I try to also affirm that I am moving on to better, and trying to fight the very urge to give up on dating and love.
Thanks Loving Annie. You’re right. The balance is off – as it is with all of the relationships written about here. and what you wrote to Foolishgirl:
“And you were just too healthy, even if you were doing fallback women things, you were still healthier than him, and he can’t go there.”
I think you hit it on the head for all of the women (or men) here. Even though I feel unhealthy myself, I KNOW that I am more healthy than he is! Maybe if I work on getting healthier myself, I wont get so easily sucked into the unhealthiness of others … at least I hope.
and Ivyowl – keep posting on how you are doing. I work with my exEUM as well. With each break-up (oh, there have been many) it gets a little bit harder to get up and go to work in the morning. I’m looking for another job – hope you do too.
The idea that we may be healthier than the EUMs is interesting and is probably quite true.
In my case, I definitely saw myself as healthy, mature, ready for a long term relationship, and understood the importance and value of communication. My EUM, on the other hand, is severely handicapped in the communication and EQ realms.
My learning has been that I am not *as healthy* as I liked to believe. Why I would stay with someone who showed me time and time again that he couldn’t communicate says a lot about my own dysfunction. So I am working on that with a counselor.
Still, it is possible that my EUM knew at some level that I would not be happy, over the longer term, with him. A year into our relationship, we were already starting to mimic some of the patterns from his marriage. So he may have run away from me because he knew eventually I would have done just what his ex-wife did: reject him. Then again, such a decision would have required a degree of self-awareness that I am still not sure my EUM possesses. He really does not seem to know himself, and admitted as much the day we broke up. He seemed just as baffled by his behavior (cheating & dumping me) as I was.
I think what all of you are saying is true. There are times when my eum would allow little truthful (and you can always tell when there is some kind of sincerity in their voice since it comes so few and far between) thoughts to come out.
He has told me that he thinks that I will one day realize that he’s not that great. He had his heart broken years ago, and he had told me that since then, he will never allow himself to be vulnerable again. Of course, when I bring this all up, he doesn’t remember saying it. Go figure. But I think him not committing is a way of protecting his heart. I try to make myself feel better by thinking that he is with the others because they don’t matter. Of course, this probably isn’t true, but it makes me feel better :-).
They, to some degree, know that they are devoid of any emotion and feeling. Just recently, he has told me that he feels nothing (in regards to his life, his career, his relationships, etc.). I can only really feel sorry for him.
I think just as we find men that mirrors how we feel about ourselves :
I have negative and critical self-talk – and I find someone who talks negatively and critically to me.
I abandon myself by not having healthy boundaries and very little self-esteem – and I find someone who abandons me.
I don’t love myself by knowing I have value and refusing to settle for crumbs – I find someone who doesn’t love me or value me and only gives me crumbs.
THEY FIND WOMEN WHO SHOW THEM WHO THEY ARE
They are emotionally unavailable – they find women whose specific dysfuctions ultimately mirror theirs.
If they are not givers, chances are they will pick a selfish woman.
If they are manipulators, chances are they will pick a woman who plays head games.
If they are liars and promise breakers, chances are they will pick someone irresponsible and unreliable.
So this is who they will be attracted to, pine over, grieve over, believe they are a victim of.
I want to modify my original thought that we are possibly healthier than they are.
I belive we want to stop being fallback women and find solutions and change ourselves and our ways of thinking and acting to become healthier and truly have available relationships – and they may not want to do any of that or feel they have any need to change.
We simply have differing levels of dysfunctions OR different dysfunctions. And we choose different people as our mirrors for how we feel about ourselves – or how we behave.
I think bottom line is that these men – or women – are oour opportunity to see what we have been doing and attracting – and thus behave differerntly in the future and begin to be healthier in our choices, doing the things that support us, rather than the things that don’t.
So…. he will choose his next woman based on who he is.
You may have treated him great and loved him but that isn’t what his priority is, no mattert what his words are.
His priority subconsciously is to find someone who mirrors him. And he does. And if she doesn’t, he leaves her.
And if she does mirror what an assclown he is — he hurts over her like we have hurt over them… His pain and his incomprehension is over who he picks, just like ours has been.
So don’t envy her. If she’s healthy and loving and has her head on straight and takes responsibility for her actions and doesn’t put up with crap, she’ll leave him. If she’s a sick puppy that mirrors him (and yes, there are women who are screwed up too) – it is his karma coming to roost, his mirror. This is his next woman when he hasn’t done the years of hard work and realizations that lead to change…..
I’m a little late but I just want to say nicely done! The pining away and wondering about what the next girl has that you didn’t is excruciating. I did it once and once was more than enough. The next thing I knew he had moved on to another and now still another. Leopards just don’t change their spots do they?
OMG, how am I only noticing this post now ?
well done Annie 🙂
I am so glad that I stumbled across this website. I cannot tell all of you ladies how reading your comments have helped me to accept the fact that I made the right decision ending my relationship with my EU boyfriend. (heavy sigh) It saddens me but at the same time empowers me to read about the strength that follows from taking a stand in our relationships where we are giving away so much of ourselves, our hearts and our love to someone who isn’t capable of love or is choosing to be self-centered and selfish with their heart & emotions. Ending my relationship has put me into a depression for the last 8 weeks, but I know, without a doubt that I did the right thing. Thank you for sharing your stories and your thoughts on this site. I think of you as little angles here to help me get through a dark time.
Peace
Darcy
FOOLISH GIRL, what you said here:
“He has told me that he thinks that I will one day realize that he’s not that great. He had his heart broken years ago, and he had told me that since then, he will never allow himself to be vulnerable again. Of course, when I bring this all up, he doesn’t remember saying it. Go figure. But I think him not committing is a way of protecting his heart. I try to make myself feel better by thinking that he is with the others because they don’t matter. Of course, this probably isn’t true, but it makes me feel better :-).
They, to some degree, know that they are devoid of any emotion and feeling. Just recently, he has told me that he feels nothing (in regards to his life, his career, his relationships, etc.). I can only really feel sorry for him.”
OMG!!!! I think we dated the same person. Seriously, where do you live? I live in NYC. No its just weird because my EUM said the EXACT same words to me. The first time I saw him after breaking up with him the first time, after 2 months, he got REALLY drunk and said…I loved you..” earlier the same night he said, “you think you love me but you wouldn’t love who I really am…I have no Self…I have no sense of self worth in any area of my life…so who you love, who you think i am, thats not me” and also “I’ll never open myself up to love after my ex…” he used to say “love is nothing but a piece of paper torn to bits”
doesnt sound like i described very well in this post..but the similarities are uncanny..when i finally broke it off with him, he said “I understand. Believe me I do. I wish I could be around more, take you out proper, but I’m not. I can’t expect you to do this forever.”
and “i always thought you would find someone better than me.”
thoughts?
What a relief !. I was with EUM for a year of intense over the top attention – constant emails, calls, trips, flowers delivered to office, lavish dinners, the whole works — followed by year of distancing, broken appointments, managing down expectations — way way down — but still popping in often enough to keep me wondering. Calling, but no plans, unwilling to acknowledge any issue or problems. The very occasional plan either invariably canceled or outright forgotten w/o explanation. Finally started to let go, and started thinking about wife #1, who left abruptly leaving one of every household item behind, then wife #2 who fell into drinking cycles. Should’ve seen the red flags thrown down, yet of course I was certain my situation would be different. Am grateful, finally, to be pulled out of the destructive cyclone of detachment – this post really helped put that into perspective (and yes, stifle the still occasional pangs) thank you!!
“Ask questions early on. Don’t assume. Be observant. And don’t think the past woman or the next woman had it much different than you did and that he is going to love her the way you always wanted him to love you.
Patterns don’t lie. Don’t be contemptuous or envious – You just haven’t heard their story from HER side.”
Does this mean that the ex he almost killed himself over, he didn’t actually love her more than he loved me?
Tee
You made some interesting points.. We have to look at all the red flags. The past ex wife that he is now divorced. Her being the bitch they my ex narcissists made me to believe right after we started going out. His ex girlfriend that he constantly talked about in a bad way but knew he was the one with the issues.. That right there was my clue… Not having a right relationship by with his kids by his ex wife. Not having a normal relationship with his family; sisters or brothers. He led me to believe that they were the bad ones immediately after we met. He was a complete socio path and I now I know that. If I had known then what I know now… we would have been done after our first date. They always appear to be the gentlemen that they are not!! So take notes ladies… when they talk about they’re wife that appears to be now an EX WIFE (run!!!)
JJ..It’s very interesting that you have highlighted the past relationships of the narcissist /EUM as these as you say are the red flags to pay attention to! When I met my EUM he was full of toxic rants about the bitches who were his ex partners,mothers of his children. Oh how charmed and seduced I was, believing I was the first girl he really connected with! Haha, what foolishness. As of course to his next partner I will be just another psycho ex, not worthy of his commitment. They really will not change and if you look back and look forward all you’ll see is the same assclown behaviour and the same women throwing themselves in to the fire to be close to them. It really is so sad. They are like leeches, hurtling through life doing irreversible damage, sucking on others emotions and spirit. As you say. Run!!!
Olivia
Yea and i can almost bet that I have already been talked about as the psycho to whoever he has preyed upon since our breakup. I feel bad for whoever she is cause these type of men repeat the same things over and over again. Same games; same lies; just a different player. They are incapable of having a committment with any type of woman regardless of how good she looks. It just took me a while to recognize what i was dealing with and i guess that’s why when i broke it off with him he turned Dr. Jekyle and Mr. Hyde.. That what’s narcissists do once they realize that you have found them out. They are embarrassed. As soon as the relationship; sex; and whatever wears off with whomever he’s with the traits and red flags will begin to start once again and then he’s ready to ESCAPE… And especially if she’s no longer catering to his financial needs…. Since our breakup I have been reading up on personality disorders and narcissists men. Everything that I have read up on; I have experienced with him. I pray to God that I never have to deal with this type of man. Cause the thing is you won’t know it by his looks… God has to give you the wisdom to acknowledge what you are dealing with and what to look out for when you are approached by these type of men because he approached me. It took me a minute to even start liking him to wanna move forward with a second or third date. They say follow your first mind and maybe thats what i should have done but I didn’t and a year later I am back to another relationship that ended all because I was with someone that i thought I knew was right for me but he wasn’t. He wasn’t even on my level and he didn’t deserve to be in my life. They say some people are meant to come into our lives for a season but we try to keep them there by making them FREE AGENTS ( they use us up; until we have nothing left and then they bounce onto the next WOMAN for their supply). 2 months NCR and I have never felt so much PEACE around me.. Dating this type of man can even have an after effect on a woman to where they loose all their self esteem and feel like something is wrong with them. I refused to give him that much satisfaction over my life. On to a happier healthier me who’s waiting on the right man that’s capable of loving…
Yep so true, as soon as the illusion bursts for you it bursts for them also and they start backing off fairly sharpish..
Very apt that you mentioned some people are meant to come into your life for only a season, as to spend your whole life with a narcississt would be like having a death sentence, however why then do so many of us cling on to them, the harder they pull away the more we try and tighten the hold?? It is like holding water in cupped hands, they simply slip away and there is nothing you can do about it. Unfortunately as you pointed out after they are gone we feel worthless, with some serious self esteem issues and an emotional black hole for a heart.. I am having a paticularly bad time today and woke up feeling very depressed about my EUM so am on here trying to gain some strength by reading the posts of others as I don’t have faith in my life to get me through. Only people and I do take a lot of comfort form the fact that so many other women seem to have gone through what I have.
Why have I only just noticed this post???
It’s so true. My EUM cheated on his wife with me – he told me she was a vindictive control freak. We dated, he blew hot and cold, he lied, he let me down, he chased other women so I dumped him. He chased me for 2 months of no contact, promised that he loved me and had learnt by his mistakes. I gave him one last chance to prove he loved me and things would be different. They weren’t and I found out he was still sleeping with someone else so I dumped him again. Of course she knew nothing about me so he’s been cheating on her. Guess who he’s calling the vindictive control freak now??? Yup – me!!! lol
Let this be a warning…. THEY DO NOT CHANGE SO NEVER GO BACK!!!!
and today is Mother’s Day. I can almost bet that he doesn’t even have the BALLS to call his ex wife who has his two children(that he never sees) to say Happy Mother’s day. Total waste of a man and a complete dead beat… No other way to explain him.