Image via Juliaf SXC
This past weekend while I was in New York, I got talking to a guy while waiting to go to the bathroom. He’d spotted that we were tourists because we had shopping bags before 1pm on a Saturday (OK…) and we ended up filling him in on our trip. My friend asked him for suggestions about good spots for meeting single guys and after telling us that he and all of his friends were gay, he repeated what I’ve heard many times – that it’s very hard to meet guys and in fact, male or female, it’s difficult to lock down a relationship.
“If you want something for one night or a fling, it’s easy to meet people. Something more..” and he shrugged his shoulders helplessly. I asked him why he thought this was. “Because everybody thinks that they can do better. They think they can find someone better looking or who has more money or whatever.”
Of course New Yorkers aren’t the only people who might be thinking that they can do better. I hear from many people who are scared to be absolute in promising themselves to a person (committing) because they worry that if they say that this is it, that out there might be a better opportunity and then they’ll be kicking themselves, even though if they were genuinely committed to someone, they fail to realise that they wouldn’t be looking around because they’d be too busy with the person they’re with. It’s not like that summer jumpsuit that I found in the Anthropologie sale room in Houston, Texas last summer that I I hemmed and hawed about and then kicked myself for not snapping it up because I didn’t find it another store. It’s a person, not an object.
Wondering if you can do better all the time, is a bit like when you sit down to watch TV but instead of choosing a programme, watching it and engaging in it, you spend the time surfing around on the off chance that there’s something better to watch.
It’s like you hate the idea that you might have missed out on viewing something better that would have left you as satisfied as you expect. Next thing the whole evening has gone by and you’ve not really watched anything. Then you think, Ah…I should have watched X…” something that you skipped over earlier and then you end up feeling dissatisfied about not choosing that as well.
I’ve had many dating and relationship ‘surfers’ get in touch with me. They’ve spent their time worrying about making a wrong move and thinking, Maybe I can do better, and they haven’t really got anything to show for it, except for instead of being perennially dissatisfied with whether they can do better, they now feel dissatisfied with being dissatisfied, plus they become regretful and may even convince themselves that one of these people was ‘The One’. Throw in checking up on them on Facebook and cue envying the One That Got Away But Not Really.
One BR reader has broken off three (yes three) engagements to different men because she wondered if she could do better… with the Mr Unavailable who kept disappearing but who she thought she had the ‘right’ amount of ‘passion’ with. No she isn’t with the Mr Unavailable and she’s not with any of the fiancés either.
The trouble with being perennially dissatisfied and shopping around for a better deal, is that not only does it get far too superficial but you’re just never really in anything to have truly enjoyed it.
Ever tried to have a conversation with someone or do something where your mind is elsewhere, or you’re constantly looking over your shoulder, or evaluating and analysing things? Your mind isn’t where it’s supposed to be – in the present.
It’s thinking, I need to know if this is IT and whether they’ll be perfect until the end of time. I need assurances that I’ll always feel satisfied. In fact I don’t want to be just satisfied – I think I should have the fairytale.
Not going to happen. You’re a big part of you being satisfied.
Sometimes you don’t know what you’re going to enjoy. The TV channel surfer may be holding themselves to the gold standard of one particular show and thinking that they have to achieve that exact experience in another show. They might watch something entirely different and thoroughly enjoy it. The same thing is going to happen if you have a ‘type’, especially as it’s likely to be a toxic type (one you’ve yet to have a successful relationship with but you insist it’s what you need) or if you’re holding people to an ‘ex standard’ – er… your ex is an ex for a reason! They’re just not that special, nor are they the only type of person you can be with.
And before anyone suggests it, no it’s not about settling. I actually really would love it if the other camp Maybe this is as good as it gets… (a whole other post) would actually consider and act upon striving to do better.
If you’re going to strive to do better, at least strive to be in a healthier relationship though.
Striving to be with someone with bigger breasts, or more hair, or who has more money, more status, who gives you eight orgasms a week instead of five isn’t really going to lead to relationship satisfaction. No doubt when you do find these things, you start wondering if you can improve upon these too. Surfing around, collecting attention online and with multiple dating, and dipping in our pinky toe is making some people numb to forging genuine relationships.
Of course it’s all about decision making which is about commitment – some people aim for a No Decisions Lifestyle because they fear making a mistake.
They keep looking to the future and fear making a decision that will lead to one possible ‘scary’ outcome even though they’re often only focusing on one and not considering others. In the meantime, they lack an appreciation for the present and miss out. That and that future they keep considering and stalling decisions about, catches up with them and becomes the present, and then they dodge that too. Or end up feeling full of regret.
If you’re asking yourself if you can do better than a relationship that isn’t mutually fulfilling and lacks love, care, trust, and respect as well as shared values and other landmarks? Yeah you can.
If you’re asking if you can do better and find someone who is more satisfying on secondary values like appearance, or how much money they have, or how much more IQ they can have, or whatever, you might want to consider whether it’s time to look a bit deeper and make sure you’re actually living your life congruent with your values and seeking partners who you can actually forge a future with.
Dating is a discovery phase. No you might not have ended up with the people who you’ve cast aside for what on reflection may seem silly reasons or certainly not the life or death you thought they were back then, but each dating experience is actually an opportunity to positively learn about what you would like to find in another person and even understanding yourself (your values). If you never discover because you’re too busy scoping out the market and being dissatisfied, how can you truly evaluate something?
Surfing through dating and relationships will leave you at a loss. Be satisfied with and value you, so that you can relax into your interactions instead of looking over your shoulder. This also means that whether you opt in or you opt out, you do it for the right reasons for you, then you always know that you did the best you could under the circumstances at the time and have little to regret.
Just remember, unless there’s danger, there is no harm with choosing a ‘channel’ for a while and letting the ‘programme’ unfold. You may just surprise yourself and enjoy it.
Your thoughts?
Add to favorites
When I woke up one day that i’ve ‘fallen in love’ with the guy i’m casually seeing, it was alarming and scary coz i know it shouldn’t feel that way. I know in my right mind that it’s not right but my emotions overpowered me that time that i was nonsensical and confronted him in where the relationship is goin. of course, he ran away. now, i was left behind with the ‘feelings’ i had and occasionally sent him random messages if somethin reminded me of him. i went on successive dates and my mind and feelings start to wander towards that guy. it’s really odd for me that for that short period of time, you can ‘fall in love’ really hard. i was on dates, yes, but some of the dates i had i put them off coz of the hung ups i stil have with him. in this situation, i admittedly i became a dating surfer, for trying to find a way to overcome the ‘feelings’ for him and thinking this is one of the ways. but then after a couple of weeks, i started to control myself like i’m not sending him random messages and stalkin him on the web. i started to focus on one person i was dating and try to work from there. i admit the feeling is still there but not strong enough now for me to keep thinking of him, sending random msgs, trying to dial his number then end it, keep thinkin of calling him and try to talk him out……time will make this pass, which i believe. but i want to be prepared again when similar situation may arise. i don’t want to be neurotic and act carelessly on it. i wanna be prepared to act sensibly and control the situation…..but who knows when you’re guna fall? when you don’t plan/expect for it….
Excellent post. I loved this part, Natalie, ” Surfing around, collecting attention online and with multiple dating, and dipping in our pinky toe is making some people numb to forging genuine relationship.”
It sounds exactly like the last guy I was with who wanted something casual.
I also noticed he said that he “gets boted easily” when it comes to things in life and women. He said that in front of me! What gives?
It was almost a challenge of “you need to entertain me to keep my attention.” it makes sense considering how much attention he was collecting online, fr commenting on other girls’ pictures to every single post I put in my profile.
I’m upset with myself for allowing it all to happen.
But what does it mean when a guy says “he gets note easily?”
Gets bored** easily. Silly typo at the end there. Sorry!
gina
it means he’s shallow. he’s unable to get below the surface of himself or other people so he’s always skimming along the top looking for a thrill, likely the thrill of seduction. The really good stuff is underneath and takes time to know. In fact, you never do 100% know someone, it evolves and develops. “I get bored easily” actually means HE’S the boring one.
This is spot on! When I asked the AC I was seeing why he hadn’t found someone after years and years of dating he told me “I get bored easily” and “I like women that are able to do their own thing”. I agree you should have a life outside your relationship but he wants someone that will give him the space to surf around. Looking back he didn’t just get bored with me after 2 months HE got boring.
You can’t win. If someone wants casual, and you don’t that’s a fundamental mismatch already that is fatal. What does it mean when a guy says that he gets bored easily – it means DROP HIS ASS.
If you value progression, balance and not having to constantly pump up a guy or compete with a hundred bazillion other people chasing him as well or have to run an obstacle course, move on.
Absolutely been there… on the receiving end of a ‘surfer’ … and it’s painful when they surf
in and out (repeatedly, stupid me) and then unexpectedly onward, leaving you wondering what just happened.?! Committment doesn’t mean you want him to instantly decide to settle down with you, it’s just to show that atleast he has what it takes to give something a go, explore, let it unfold, see where it goes. Is that so hard for men these days? Or is it just my age group ? (40) Maybe they’re all going through a mid life crisis! lol. Anyway, no more surfers for me, just someone who’s willing to ‘invest’ for long enough to see what may or may not be. Is that too much to ask for?
Hi Fiona, of course it’s not too much to want, but it seems like it is too much to ask for. Dating sites let you check off ‘long-term’ or ‘short-term’ and most people have both checked off, just to be sure. How helpful is that?
I believe most online daters are unsure about what it takes to give something a go. First, it takes undivided attention: no multiple dating. Second, it takes honest conversations: goals in life, values, the heavy stuff. That in turn takes knowing yourself, and a kind of openness and respect for the other. Oh, and some patience and self-restraint. Darnit, hormones interfere with getting to know each other… they really do, I’m sad to report.
Just a whole load of boring grownup behavior 😛
Haha. I know people who like to start up text ping pong, so what I do is I phone them up. Watch them crap themselves!!
The ‘Bigger and Better’ syndrome is exacerbated by technology. It’s easier to meet more people and connect these days. There’s more options of people to spend time with, be it socially or romantically, that you might not have met in the pre-social media days. With infinite choices, it’s no wonder we’re always looking out for something MORE.
Yes, that, and I really find it problematic that there is no online dating etiquette that says you are to stop contacting new ‘matches’ while you’re seeing someone. I think pre-internet and pre-casual-sex, that was pretty low and shady. Now it’s the cool way to be.
I just disabled my profiles and swore I’m not going back. No matter how thoughtful of others you are trying to be, dating sites are designed to train you to treat fellow human beings as commodities that you pick as if browsing through a catalog.
I totally agree – people consider online connections to be disposable and inconsequential. Anything goes, absolutely anything… of course it’s okay to make sexual propositions to complete strangers. It’s okay to barely more than lurk the sites as a way of life. I see people who were already there years ago. Really? Online dating is their way to avoid real life relating. Some got as far as setting a date, and then pulled a no-show. Classy. Or the guys with hours and hours worth of correspondence that fizzles out when the topic of meeting in person is finally broached. Then, there’s the opposite: a fast-forward whirlwind romance they put ‘on hold’ out of the blue. When asked, they complain it was too much too soon for *them*! All happened to me, all in the course of two months. I could have been taking walks in the park or reading books.
cavewoman: Oh my, how I can relate! I deleted my profiles online for the exact reason: men would come on strong, then fizzle out before you even met, some would just cut the fat and straight out offer FWB (even though my profiles said not to bother me if that’s what you’re looking for), then there were the men who went 0-60 in 2 seconds on the first meeting, and of course the 2-date wonder who stopped calling after getting intimate. Total waste of my time.
I agree Sabrina. I went out with a guy from a dating website who told me all women wanted was bigger better and different. And this was while we were on a coffee date where he didnt even offer to buy my coffee, he never let me get a word in hedgewise, he was grossly overweight (I like chunky men but he was sloppy). I didnt go out with him again. I’ve dated lots of guys who wanted to keep their options open and it seems to me that they want more from the other person than what they themselves have to offer, as in the coffee date guy above.
I totally agree with you! That has been my experience as well—men who will say “Oh, I’m picky and if I don’t find what I believe I deserve, I’ll stay single.” “Oh, I’m waiting for God to send me my wife–but in the meantime, I’m going to flirt with women I find attractive, young and sexy.” “Oh, I’m almost 50, and I have never been married or have children and I have dated lots and lots of women, but I still haven’t found “the one.” When I hear a guy make those statements, to me…it rings “red flag alert.” AND have you ever noticed that the same men who harp on being “picky” when it comes to who they date or get into a relationship with, don’t have much of anything to offer that’s worthwhile??? It’s like you said, they want so much, but they don’t have anything to offer to the other person.
Annelli you must go to my church. Yep they seem to want it all but dont think that maybe they need to be offering something too.
It’s also that it lowers the barrier to entry. When I used to online date (banned now) I would ask ‘So what are you on this website for’ and many times the reply would come back as “oh, I don’t know’.
A lot of it can be ego stroking too.
Online dating is here to stay, and like any new technology, it’s not going to go away, so best to know the perils and decide whether it is for you or not.
Too true. I have a habit of dating surfers– and it’s not just because I’m in Southern California. The men around here want a 20-something life-size Barbie that earns as much as he does, cooks, cleans and has the libido of a jackrabbit. Did I mention she should be smart but not “smart off” in front of men? And I swear no matter how attractive, funny, gregarious, positive, drama-free and easy going I am, it seems like I’m walking on eggshells around men. I can’t remember the last time I had a third date. Does showing up at a man’s place qualify as a “date?” Their loss, really. Too much of a sassy, strong woman for one man to handle I guess. Loved this article.
I agree, Sabrina, I find guys are soooo non committal online, even to email, after THEY’VE made the first move! Errr…..it’s irritating and immature, and just “shopping” to see who’ll respond hoping the twenty other women he’s “winked” at will reply and he can pick and choose. Drives me nuts!
To Nat’s point, I find I do this a bit- maybe- I haven’t been in the dating pool very long, and have a couple of guys would are pursuing me, but I just don’t feel connected enough to be exclusive…I’ve tried to be honest with them about it, but
they persist, especially the one. I live in an area pretty dry of older single guys my age. The bottom line of it is that I do know there is someone out there for me, but how do i find him if i’m exclusive with everyone who makes it beyond the first date?
Tess,
exclusive isn’t really any kind of commitment except maybe committing to finding out if the one guy you are dating is the one for you to have a relationship with. As soon as you know for sure he isn’t, you let him know, you make it clear you won’t be seeing each other, and move on. One by one. If you don’t feel connected enough to give that a try, there is your answer.
I feel that if someone isn’t good enough to give the courtesy of dating one on one –not long term, just for getting to know them better — then it’s best to keep looking for someone who is, rather than pass time with casual dates.
Which brings me to social life vs. dating. I’m learning to go out by myself or with a friend and enjoy that show, concert, party or whatever I’m interested in, regardless of who is or isn’t willing to take me as a date. Those activities should be separate. Dating sites are not for supplementing my social life. That would be a slippery slope to hanging out with dates ‘for the time being’. Next thing you know, you’re with those in-betweeners full time.
tess, cavewoman-
this is the one part of natalie’s post that i’m not sure i agree with. and maybe its just because i tend to get too attached too soon.
i’m not sure that multi-dating in the early stages, say, dates 1-10, isn’t a good idea. because 1) we’re not supposed to be having sex too early (i am NOT advocating sleeping around, quite the opposite) and 2) why should we be exclusive unless we’re prepared to really get serious, i mean *serious*, with someone and THEY with US?
my ex-EUM went exclusive early with me saying he was offering “monogamy”. but monogamy implies marriage, which implies love – and he was not really offering love, he was offering *sexual* exclusivity – BIG difference.
i used to think that having a boyfriend and being exclusive was where it was at. but now i see i rushed things, or allowed them to be rushed, because i wasn’t patient enough to find someone who really had the potential to be the ONE. i was allowing someone to tie me up while he, rather callously, waited to see if he would develop feelings for me when he should have already known he couldn’t/wasn’t going to – and i allowed this! i wasn’t thinking enough of myself, and opting out of situations, that weren’t really right for me. i was, out of insecurity, becoming exclusive, which was a mistake. all this did was turn me into a serial monogamist.
i’m not advocating always looking over the other person’s shoulder to see what’s better AT ALL. and maybe this is my way of keeping myself from getting too attached too early. but i’m saying that maybe its better to keep the pressure off an individual situation and avoid unrealistic expectations build up by not being exclusive until there’s really a very, very good reason to be.
cc,
the situation you describe is not fun. No reciprocity is very hurtful. And like I learned through my Prototype EUM and by reading BR, you too have found out that it’s up to you to extricate yourself from those situations.
Was the pain caused by exclusivity though? Or was the pain caused by mistaking exclusivity for a meaningful, mutual, committed relationship, and ignoring signs to the contrary?
I guess the idea is that it’s better to date one-on-one if you want to find out whether there is compatibility and progression. That means, when we see there is no progression, we step. Especially if one-sided feelings start to develop. No waiting around. Rip that band-aid off.
I know there is a method out there of dating multiple men. I don’t know… I don’t think that taking dates one by one, in and of itself, is a problem. Oh I see the how attention from one guy might inoculate me against the disappointment from being ignored by another. It’s just that it seems like a temporary fix.
cavewoman-
you’re right, i’m mixing problems, but to me they go together. this may just be my own thing, though.
the ex-EUM: there were definitely signs that he couldn’t deliver the committed love relationship that he supposedly had on offer, i just didn’t know how to accept them at face value, sift through the confusing data and rhetoric i was getting, and opt out when i could have. eventually i did, but i should have done much sooner. did i participate when i probably shouldn’t have? yes. but did he gaslight me? not intentionally, but yes. what i mistook was his ability to love because he said he wanted to – and i let the exclusivity be one of the reasons i was willing to take a chance, i took it as evidence of his willingness, wish, and capability to/of loving. but he was (truly) an emotional cripple from the beginning. shockingly so.
exclusivity: yes, we need to be strong enough to stand on our own two feet and not let one guy’s attention be an anodyne for rejection from another. but for me, i tend to invest too much too early, and to (clearly) participate too long. so, in the early stages at least, its better for me to not be exclusive until it really turns out to be real and worth exclusivity. otherwise, for me, i’m better off dating appropriate candidates.
but maybe that’s just me.
Hey Nat, I was only thinking about this last night, how my constant need to be challenged by different experiences, ideas and people can be unhealthy for my relationships. Fortunately, something HAS clicked, with the issue not being about whether I could do better (which is an impossible question, and, as you say, takes YOU and your personality and attitudes out of it), but about whether I fit with THIS person, whether there is joy and respect in THIS relationship.
I think the hard thing is that we naturally want to judge things, even our joy and respect levels!, which is when we bring in standards from the past (the ex-standard – I love that! I am only just less-than-terrible with that!) OR the glorious future (the paradise-standard).
Judgment relates to criticism, relates to anxiety and doubt. It can spiral pretty quickly, and Sabrina is right – social media and all the photos and information we receive about possibilities don’t help.
But I really think it’s all about your own confidence. As Tina Fey says (garbled quote alert): talent is not sexually transmittable. She meant, I think, that you need to be what you want that other person to be. Don’t get other people to be things for you, whether that’s talented, rich, successful, kind, attractive, energetic or curious.
Brilliant ! “like” a thousand times..that’s some wisdom you have Nat. It’s being about two years reading your blog and I’ve never felt so “sure” about myself before what you do for people is invaluable.Thank you.
PS: I’ll buy your books as soon as I am able to 🙂
I think you are right, Sabrina.
I have a longterm friend who’s like this about committing to plans. It has really started to bother me in the last few months and it has become a hassle and too much work to ask her to do anything. I feel kind of bad about it but my other friends arent as difficult, they either say yes or no, not ask a million questions like every single detail or who else is going. I figure either I’ve become lazy or maybe I’m getting healthier and not wanting to chase after people anymore.
Damn, was this so SPOT ON! So true are BR’s words. This is yet another one of her articles that is making dig deep. Thank you.
Agree with Sabrina, I think we have become the “I want more and I want it now” human beings. Having had choices everywhere (cereal, cars, funeral plans…) as people we feel that we have options even with partners and with love. Modern technology has made it super easy (dating websites), so has the dating culture in some countries (Australia here where multiple dating is totally ok). Why do we have to ‘prove’ ourselves to everyone around us NOW?
What an unfortunate situation.
Why date just one, when I can check this, this, this and this out? I don’t get it. How will I ever know what this person offer me and what I can offer him if I don’t stop looking beyond his shoulders? Wont I miss the special smile and the kind touch if I am not WITH him, in the present? BR and NML have taught me that I don’t want to be part of that multiple options scenario – doesn’t agree with my values. Good thing to have discovered that.
LOL, I should send this article to my exEUM. But you know what they say about EUs and introspection 🙂 Lets see, comparing me to his ex (who actually treated him like crap but he still worships) TICK; constantly looking beyond my shoulders for ‘better’ TICK; needed to know for sure after just 3 weeks that I am ‘the one’ TICK; needed to feel passion ‘now’ TICK…my god, he seems increasingly ‘delightful’! Hehe 🙂
And lo and behold, I did not know what it meant when he told me on date two “I am not very good at making decisions..”. Commitment issues + my life revolves around online dating and multiple girls issue.
NML, I loved how you said that sometimes its nice to just let it ‘unfold’. Truly made my heart smile 🙂 Good things take time and patience. I hope when I am ready to get back to dating (not feeling strong enough yet, focusing on me), I hope I can find someone healthy with whom I can just enjoy the present and let it play itself out 🙂
Yes, I liked the unfold suggestion too. Like a lily 🙂
Status is such a big thing today, it is ALL ABOUT THE STATUS (particularly Facebook status, ugh!). I have a friend who has met a guy online overseas (red flag there) who has now moved in after 2 months and they have ZERO basis for a relationship other than their chats (yep, been there myself). Everything seems to be going at 100 km/hour, and oh, did I mention it is secret relationship also?
Yes, Let it Unfold = excellent piece of advice.
Yeah, ‘speed of light’ relationships…how does your friend feel comfortable in a situation like this…hard to imagine. Have a workmate in a similar spot – met a man overseas (was there for 7 days) and now they are ‘in love’. He is apparently coming to see her in a few weeks, they say I love yous all the time, skype chats everyday, they are planning to move to Canada in a few months, know what they will name their kids, she thinks he will propose soon…ALLLL this just after spending 5 days with someone.
Im generally skeptical (and cynical) about things…but honestly, how can a mature adult possibly think believe in all this and plan all this after 5 days?
Let it unfold. Yes. My mantra from now on 🙂 Cheers tired_of_!
This was a great posting Nat. Although I am 39 NC I almost wanted to share it to ex EUM/assclown. What good would it do. I really did some serious journaling reading this particular post. You were right on point. Holding down a relationship is definitely tough now days. A one night fling is definitely EASY…. Anything more than that not so much….
The No Decision Lifestyle… Alot of men aim for that. Just leaving or pulling the dissapearing ACT seems so be a the best solution nowdays. I don’t have to give you an answer so don’t expect one. Particularly those men and women that haven’t dealt with their own emotional work and those that are “Attention Hungry”. You talked about this on another post that ties in to this. I am so glad that I had second thoughts and canceled by profile on that very site we met. It was not surprising to find him Active at around the time that I removed my profile. Surfing around has become the new “NORM” and if you keep repeating this; dating online you do run the RISK of becoming numb to forming genuine relationships. They all seem to become repeats and before you know it you have wasted all of your time on seeking out and attracting the wrong people and BOOM you are left wondering what the hell happened. And no there is not a FiRE; it’s so good to Step back for how every many months/years you need to versus repeating the same steps only end up in the same spot just with a different person. I am stepping back no matter how long it takes me. I am not looking for a quick shortcut with someone else. Like you said… You will live to Love another Day. And the difference I think is that you’ll be READY….
I just had to respond to this. My engagement was recently broken by someone who thought they could do better than me. We were together for two years, and a few months away from the wedding. This was his first relationship, and whilst we were happy being together one on one, he constantly judged me in social occasions as not funny/sporty/confident/interesting enough. His doubts grew and grew until he convinced himself that he could do better.
I pleaded for him to be present in the relationship, to appreciate what we had, but our values were so different. I value integrity, compassion, honesty – he seems to be more concerned with how the external world sees him/us (and no one ever said I was a bad partner), and is now off looking for The One. To say I’m heartbroken is really just skimming the surface. It’s as if all the memories, experiences we had meant nothing.
helen-
you have my utter sympathy. i’m so sorry, truly.
…and now i’m going to make you really, really mad at me. and maybe now is not the time to say this but….
what i want you to see, when you can, is that the person who should have been doing better was YOU. the signs were all there: he was critical, judgmental, high-handed and superficial, not to mention his inexperience. honestly, it pisses me off that you accepted this treatment. who the hell is he to treat you like that? you were you to take it?
you shouldn’t have to plead with anyone to do anything. trust me, i know, i’ve pleaded (pled?) and i shouldn’t have. love and respect and care should be given freely, with an open, generous, JOYous hand. in fact, that’s exactly what i said to the ex-EUM with whom i was pleading. what i didn’t get at the time was that, by that point, i should already have been out the door. with prejudice.
i know how it hurts. but try not to hurt so much. because he really sounds like a jerk. i know you’ll hate me for saying this, i know, ow, but its true – be glad your engagement is ended. there is no way you should have been shackled for life to someone like that. now you can learn to value you properly so you can find someone who ADORES you for you.
but i am truly sorry.
Helen, it made me so sad hearing your story. It is indeed sad how he values the all the superficial qualities than being with someone who has those superior values. I have been there and it is NOT ok.
YOU can do better than him. Imagine being with someone like him for the REST of YOUR LIFE. Totally agree with cc’s response.
Anyone who sees you as not worth it/can do better doesnt need a moment of your time or care. I know you will see that when you have started to heal but right now, it is ok to cry and mourn. My exEUM made it very clear that I was not good enough for him but you know what, when I got out and gave myself a bit a of time, I could clearly see every single thing where he couldnt even come close to being a man with integrity, decency and honest. Give yourself this time, dear girl.
I send you big, warm, caring hugs. You will be ok.
Thank you both for your responses. This website is a Godsend. I am struggling, especially as the shift in his perspective of me only happened after we moved in together (can anyone say ‘commitmentphobe’?). I know in time I will realise it wasn’t he that could do better, but me. Thank you.
I did a terrible, terrible thing and spent an amount of time last night reading those really shallow “Game” websites..:(
I have the reverse, I am believing that maybe I can’t do better. Or anything. I’m single, I’m nearing 30 and I am wondering if I should just give up. Of course it didn’t help me to read these blogs where men are discussing how a woman has practically lost her chance with a good man if she has not settled by 30.
I have a date next week with a man who is slightly younger and in a high status job and I know I will screw it up with my inferiority complex that is only going to get worse as I age.
Hi Vienna,
Please allow me to comment on your message. So you know where this is coming from: I am male, 58 years of age, always struggling with the other sex, and reading BR for several years now.
Your message struck me as ‘hopeless’ but without ‘sense’.
First of all, the 30-year age ‘limit’ you introduce does not exist – it is a construct.
Take a good look around you: is everyone above 30 doomed ? I do not think so, and my experiences tell me there is so much to live and love, for any age category, Do not entertain the 30-year construct in your own mind – age is really of minor importance – do not feed this thought pattern. It is your responsibility towards yourself to stop thinking such nonsense.
Second, and I can feel for you, as I have been struggling with an inferiority complex for the best part of my own adult life, you are already good enough. Do not go along with any induced inferiority, do not remain in this painfull comfort zone.
Allow yourself to think: “I am already good enough”. Of course this phrase comes from Natalie who writes this blog, and you should really read the recent article she wrote on this topic.
Put on your nicest cloths, stand in front of the mirror, and repeat: I am already good enough. Repeat, and start believing. This is where you can really make a change, and you owe it to yourself to work on this.
Go to your date, and try to relax a bit. This is not the beginning or the end of life – this is an encounter that is meant to be enjoyed – whether it will lead to something more, or not. Yes, joy, a meeting which celebrates life.
You will not screw it up – give yourself a chance.
Vienna! Not a single man on those game websites is a good man, nor do they know what a good man is. Not one. Narcissists and sore losers.
Your date with the young achiever – by definition, you cannot screw it up. Because it’s not a performance or an interview. You’re actually there to find out (among others) if he is not too self-absorbed to value your achievements. If he is, good riddance. Enjoy your date! If he is that superficial, try to laugh it off. It’s certainly not your fault if he is.
Also: do you actually want to be with someone who has a high status job if it makes you feel this way from the get-go? Maybe there are real reasons for your apprehension, like you’re not attracted to the driven, materialistic type. You don’t have to be. I’m not, and I think that’s perfectly fine.
Cavewoman,
I do not understand the correlation between high status and materialistic? I don’t understand looking down on others for being successful? You’re making this guy into a bad guy w/o anything to back it up!
Vienna needs to work on her own insecurities, so that she will feel more comfortable with herself and choices.
Oh no Allison, not at all. That’s not what I wrote. Of course the guy may well be a wonderful person. We don’t know.
I do not look down on people who are successful. It was just one scenario: IF a person rejects dates because they’re not as high status, it’s okay to find that person unattractive for that reason. Also, IF someone is like that, I would think of them as driven and materialistic and that is not my type. That’s not a generalization about all successful people.
Cave,
Sorry, for the misunderstanding!
No worries, Allison!
vienna-
i am SO glad that peter responded. because i was wracking my brains on what to say to you that would convince you that your whole line of thinking and acting was self-defeating and just plain WRONG, but he did it better than i ever could have and it means more because he’s a man. nothing like getting validation from a man that your thinking about yourself vis-a-vis men is way off base.
to add more to what he and cavewoman said:
– 29 is nothing. you have your whole adult life to do yourself justice. relax. seriously. i’m older than you are and trust me – to panic now is the absolute wrong choice. you’re not drying up. you’re not a ticking time bomb. you’re a lush, lovely gem and you should value yourself accordingly.
– those “game” websites and books like “how to seduce women” are written and frequented by shithead opportunists who value noone, not even themselves. their “game” is all about degredation, manipulation, and making the most of the insecurities you already have to corner you into believing you need to redeem yourself by capitulating yourself further. o.O? no!!! in fact, most of those “get laid guides” come right out and say “don’t even try this on someone with good self-esteem, its a waste of time.” see?
as i have said before: do not put your value in anyone else’s hands. do not appoint someone the judge of you. do not seek validation from invalidators, ESPECIALLY yourself.
as i have also said before: fire yourself from the “judge of vienna” job and eliminate the title. then create a new title: the person who loves, values, cherishes, adores, forgives, understands, and nourishes vienna. then do everything you have to do to qualify for that job. make everyone else take care of you at least as well as you take care of yourself. which means you better take care of yourself damn well. then do continuing study so you continue to evolve and continue to support yourself in this quest.
you do not have to feel this way. you DON’T. but you must take the first step. trust me, its the best first step you’ll ever take.
and don’t fear that date. do your best, but be easy with yourself, breathe. and for every time you think “does he like me?” think 3 times “do I like HIM?”.
Thank for the replies, my self esteem is pretty low now..last year I finished with a guy who believed he was too good for me and wasn’t afraid to let me know of it…add that on top of the fact that I’m getting older..and that there are a lot of messages out there telling me that this is undesirable to men and that my fertility and looks will dissipate imminently. Sigh.
I will go on the date but I am afraid I am not getting my hopes up too high. My friends tell me to fake confidence even if I don’t have it. Perhaps I will try that.
Vienna,
I’m 48! I believe that I have a lot to offer, and am certain I will meet a man that I can share my future with.
Looks fade, the thing that is most attractive to anyone is belief in oneself. Instead of focusing on the exterior, try to understand what brought you to this place and work on establishing boundaries and a better self-esteem.
Vienna
Everyone’s looks and fertility fade in time. Even men’s.
By that reasoning, no-one would be with anybody. Except Hugh Hefner I suppose
Vienna, the others here have provided excellent things for you to learn and grow stronger. I am 28 and for the life in me, I cant understand why you feel like 30 is the end of the world?? 30 is slightly scary but it is only a number and dont you want to grow older and collect wonderful experiences and wisdom?
Like everything in this world, there is good and bad – good/bad people, good/bad ideas, good/bad ideas/websites/information – but you need to pick and use things that are positive and beneficial to you. Not everything out there is good or right. Dont pay attention to these websites. Just take information that helps you become stronger.
And you wont ruin this date! He might be younger and has a high status job, but him having that doesnt make him a super ‘catch’, does it? Just those two factors are not enough to have a healthy, positive relationship. So like the other (much wiser than me people here 🙂 have said, go out there, see what he is like, see if you enjoy his company and he yours, see what more he has to offer and if you have similar values. If nothing, you would have learnt more about what you wish to see in someone you want to spend your life with. He might be awful but there is a chance that he is lovely – never know!
Enjoy your date!
(And if you havent already, I would kindly ask you to think about seeing a therapist. I think it will help you in such a massive way).
what if you are on the other side? always being afraid of being left for someone better? I met a great man who really cares for me and this is the first healthy relationship I may have ever had. I am still afraid all the time that some one who can cook better, his family may like more, or has a better job or better anything may come along and be more appealing. I really work on writing out my fears,I just lack the confidence to be ok if that did happen. I have no basis for my fear from him. This is from me
katy-
believe me, i totally understand, its very easy for someone to say this when they are NOT in the situation.
however, this is exactly what you must do, right now, no matter how hard it is.
1- go easy on you. be forgiving and understanding of your own panic. take the claws out. you’re human. we all get afraid.
2- start to believe NOW that you’re worth it. make lists if you have to. invest in the foundation of your own self-esteem. that’s the best way to feel good, all on your own, and make good decisions about which partner is right for YOU (not the other way around). you don’t have to be afraid like this. you DON’T.
3- realize that he’s just one guy and its all about fit. this is NOT last chance saloon. so, does he fit? if the answer is yes, as far as you know right now, then let him fit as far as you know. enjoy it. if he stops fitting, make a different decision. until he proves he’s that special, sorry, and no offense, he’s not that special. you have a choice!
and…if it doesn’t work out… you WILL be ok. you will. i hope everything works out, but i gotta tell ya, the greatest growth i’ve undergone in terms of relationships is when i was recovering from a (ripping, excruciating) breakup and had to grow in order to get out of the pain. and guess what? i grew. and i’m ok. and now i see that if i had done 1-3, i wouldn’t have put my worth in his hands and had to endure the horrible break up because …. drum roll …. i would have been the one to opt out.
your greatest strength is believing in yourself, and you have every reason to do so. perfect? no. wonderful? yes! so, work on that.
Thank you! right now he is a total fit, I am just afraid to screw it up or that if he knew how i used to be he would leave. I was probably 50 percent through my work on self esteem, journeling etc and wasn’t expecting to meet someone. He is respectful, honest, and cares about me. I told him alittle about my past but not all. I was just overwhelmed by the lack of confidence i was feeling and wondering why he even likes me.I appreciate the advice!
Katy, cc’s response is spot on. Be still. “I am just afraid to screw it up or that if he knew how i used to be he would leave.” Stop right there and journal that. And then journal “i was feeling and wondering why he even likes me”. And check out Natalie’s recent post on being “good enough”. Assuming he is not an AC/EUM or otherwise pathological, maybe he likes you because you are wonderful? You don’t need to vomit up your past. Take it slowly. Additionally, slow your roll and make sure his actions CONSISTENTLY match his words. Most of all, don’t place him on a pedestal just cos he seems to be a fit. He’s just a guy with a past too. We all have sorrows. I hear your fears. Be still with your fears and acknowledge them. Natalie’s books are so helpful in dealing with fear.
oh, runner-
“be still with your fears and acknowledge them.” …i’m going to try that. its hard, but that’s what courage is. its not being afraid to be afraid.
so, wise, you are.
great comments ladies… I think too that dating like this you don’t know how many issues the guy on the other end has. When i met the guy I am currently 40 days NC with today; (YEY ME!!!) (who also suddenly disappeared after our first weekend together) and not right after… the month right before his last day at work would be approaching he slithered his way right out of my Life…. I guess he already felt like a LOSER; being with me and me wanting an exclusive relationship was no longer on his AGENDA. Not to mention when i finally met him after 7 months of internet FANTASY; LOADS of keeping me “TIED IN” as if we were really going to have something Serious when he knew that we were NOT. Me wandering am I not skinny enough; was I too this, was i too that?? Just a bunch of BULLSHIT… We he came to see me I think he was actually very “INTIMIDATED” by my appearance.. I am a very attractive women. I may not be the skinniest woman; But I do work out ; try to eat right and keep myself up and I dress nice. He didn’t even have a decent haircut when he drove 10 hours to see me…(with his daughter) and when we went out to DINNER; (very upscale restaurant ) that I don’t think he was even use to; he takes for ever to pull out his credit card to pay for our MEAL. IT was absolutely pathetic. He didn’t even leave a TIP. I pulled out $10.00 and gave it to the WAITER just because I knew (#1. knew that he was a little SLOW #2. IT was the right thing to do; especially when you are getting good service). I noticed other underlying issues too with him that weekend… He was very selfish in the way he dressed when we went out to dinner. He wore SOCKS and a pair of Flip fops…. I was dressed nice… and he wanted to play me DOWN.. very typical of a passive aggressive narcissist ass clown. When i asked aren’t you going to put on a pair of shoes; like dressing appropriately for a date? his response was no I am wearing this. I am going like JAY Z today. Laid back. PISSED me off… Things like that; just a total inconsiderate SLOB. Every store that we went in or any that I liked like GAP; THE LOFT; etc he would make comments and say I hate the GAP; or I hate that; just crazy stuff. I could tell he had huge self esteem issues. ON our movie date; he sat between me and his daughter. It was freezing in the movie theater and I had on a sundress…He tried to stay closer to his daughter versus staying closer to me in the theater; never tried tried to hold my hand during that time or anything almost as if he did it on purpose and he wanted me to FEEL terrible behind it all. THE VERY last day he left me that weekend and dropped me back off at my house that night before leaving to drive 10 hours back ; I didn’t even get a popper HUG or walk to my front door. He pulled in my front driveway and said goodbye. He was a very jealous person as well. He couldn’t handle my LIFE STYLE(big home; nice cars; loving family; SUCCESS) when he came to visit me I truly believe. He was intimidated by it ALL and he SHOWED it. So I am basically saying my online surfing dating days are definitely “OVER” because you don’t know what you are “GETTING”. This experience and going through this has given me an entire new Perspective. I’m thankful for it all.
Awakened,
None of that behaviour really sounds AC to me. You just both found out that you didn’t actually get on that well when you met in person. You didn’t like him, and it would appear that, for whatever reason, he didn’t like you. I suppose this just goes to show that it’s a bad idea to have lengthy correspondence without meeting. If you had met early on you probably would both have realised you weren’t suited, and left it at that. But you, as well as he, were responsible for that, and it doesn’t really sound as though he set out to make a fool of you.
I’m going to disagree with Mymble here. This person can’t be classified as an assclown or EUM because the ‘level of proof’ is not high enough yet (or maybe it is) but some kind of connection was established during the internet fantasy phase. Maybe not enough to put him in the EUM or AC box with certainty, but definitely in the TIMEWASTER category.
He is displaying gross disinterest, and passive aggressive and what I call “the dead hand manouvre” where they make anything and everything absolutely excruciating to do or go to so that you try even harder to please them. HE DID NOT DO THIS.
A decent person would say, “Look, it was nice but I’m not that interested” and walk away after that. Why the hell is it so hard to do this?
As a fantasy veteran and magnet for no-intimacy, no sex Mr Unavailables, you MUST have limits on how much you are going to sink into uninterested and nonsense men and learn how to read “wayside” signals. as you go through life. This guy’s signal is amber/red. Time to hit flush.
* ‘he did not do this line’ should have been after the ‘a decent person would say’ paragraph!
Awakened,
My biggest problems with this scenario, are communicating for 7 months with no meet up, and pursuing someone long distance. Why aren’t you seeking local if you want a relationship?
i gotta tell ya….
thinking i could do better was NEVER my problem. as a matter of fact, had i had a little of that along the way, i wouldn’t have made half the mistakes with men that i’ve made. i’m not taking anything away from the point of natalie’s message, she did it, as always, accurately and remarkably well.
but my problem has always been NOT thinking i could do as well as i might and jumping in, blind to every non-green color of flag, with both feet, whole heart, and full of hope that THIS dysfunctional person was going to make everything alright. which was always impossible from the start. cuz that’s my job for myself.
its really hard to get all the values right – and by values, i mean both the matching of the goals/objectives/wants/needs and the proper calibration of one’s self, the situation at hand, and the other person’s deal. i’ve worked so hard on all of this, that i think i’ve gotten somewhat better (ok, probably markedly better) at it. now, what i’m discovering is: i really need to get off my own case. and just relax. and just enjoy. even if, actually esPECIALly if nothing at all is going on, just relax. just enjoy.
thank you, natalie. even though this doesn’t really apply to me, it still spoke to me. for which i am truly grateful.
I feel so ashamed now… 🙁
Recently I turned down a guy because of his height (I KNOW, SHALLOW and disgusting) because I thought I couldn’t get over that (like tall men). In my whole life I never had such a connection with someone, so much fun, understanding and respect and I threw all that away because I am unavailable.
I kept thinking – I can do better, I want perfection, I want the perfect partner and perfect relationship…
Really sad… I wish I read this article before, it made me thinking how unavailable I truly am…
Yikes
You haven’t made a mistake.
Even if you didn’t throw him away, the fact that you’re unavailable would have caused problems anyway.
I’m sure there will be another one in soon.
Hermione, your comment struck home. Recently, I didn’t turn down a guy because of his height. He said he was 5′ 2″. I’m 5′ 2″ and 108 lbs on good day. When we met, he was at least 2″ shorter than me. However, it wasn’t about his height one drop. It really doesn’t matter whether they are 6’2″ or 5’2″. He was just a short guy who wasn’t a fit based on a lack of shared values. His height was totally irrelevant. He coulda been 7’2″. Got to admit, I’m still working through the lack of hair.
“Your mind isn’t where it’s supposed to be – in the present”.
Yes, even though we’ve yet to go on our first date (I’ve been away), I’m fastwarding to the doomed future where I will be 114 and he will only be 99.
I. just. need. to. relax.
gracie grace-
every single one of us, when under stress, regresses into momentary relapses of vestigial old behaviors. it doesn’t have to last long and it doesn’t have to be very deep, but we all do it.
so, be easy on you, lil miss. don’t be judgy of you. breathe. be lovely to yourself and it will be easier to stay in the moment.
and enjoy. that’s what i want for you. to enjoy this and have fun.
Lol Grace! Aye, and when you’re 114 and he’s 99 he’s going to be surfing for 85 year old younger birds on that old fashioned on-line dating thingy – doomed indeed!
I think you know this guy well enough now to ask the questions that you think are/might niggle at you. I know that with the ex EUM I ducked issues and was afraid to ask straight questions for straight answers cos I didn’t really want to hear the answer cos I’d then feel pressured into doing something about it – like walking away (eeek, horror of horrors!). For what it’s worth, I don’t think the age gap need be an issue and I think your guy will have thought of it already.
I’m reminded of going out for drinks with the EUM in the first week of our getting together and him calling me a good looking ‘older woman’ and using the expression ‘it happens’ (i.e. being older and also good looking). I was 39 years old for eff sake! (he was only 3 years younger!) – talk about a back handed compliment – he also asked me pretty early on if I thought our age gap was too large! Jeez. What an arse. I remember thinking ‘what effing age gap, you twit!’. I told him it didn’t bother me in the slightest, but now, of course, I think I was supposed to ask him same back (I didn’t cos it seemed too stupid a thing to be talking about), cos it plainly was something he was going to use as a disclaimer, which he did, on his first big disappearing act (he said he really saw himself with a young catholic virgin! Twit.). I qualified on one count only. But that’s just all typical EU get out clause – any old thing will do. Your guy is not EU! Yay.
Anyway, I have a feeling your guy is not a twit either! Take heart. If it bothers you or more so if you think it might be an issue for him – don’t second guess him, ask him. After your dinner!
Grace,
MY mind was in the present for you … I almost wanted to post a random shout-out to find out what happened! Then I thought, jeez, Magnolia, leave Grace alone and don’t make a huge thing out of it. Still. I’ll take a deep breath on your behalf, concentrate on the fact that you two have known each other quite a long while already, and it’s great to take that good beginning into a new context, like dinner somewhere that isn’t church. It’s just a step. Do enjoy!
I laughed when I saw your comment and was thinking about this post tonight: one of my writer friends took me aside at an event tonight and told me she wanted to talk to me later about the new job I haven’t started yet. I waited all through the first set thinking she was going to tell me about the politics of the dept that I didn’t know or that she’d heard they were sorry they went for me or that I was their sixty-third draft pick or something. When we got to talk, she told me that the department that has hired me will be posting for a tenure-track job, to do exactly what I do, in the fall and that – if I am ‘loveable’ enough – they will encourage me to apply. She says they already know I’m great professionally; they want to see if I’m a good fit relationshipwise.
I’m already looking down the road and worrying about how unhappy I would be in this small town if I were locked into this job for the rest of my life! How crazy is that? Mind definitely not in the present. Wasn’t I thrilled just a month ago?
I think Elle said something about this a couple days ago. A constant need to be challenged by different experiences, ideas and people can be unhealthy if one fears making a choice…
I have to say, I’m surprised that so many women I know still judge a man on whether or not he pays the bill on the first date. I know a lot of guys who put women on this so-called pedestal and believe me, it’s not necessarily a sign of generosity and goodwill. Why would we expect a guy to pay our way when he doesn’t even know us? Just because he’s the man and we’re the little lady? I think that’s setting yourself up for a problematic relationship, right there. If I were a guy, I’d really resent having to shell out for every first date encounter. It would get expensive, and it would also make me think the woman has a serious case of princess syndrome.
I guess my point is, let’s look beyond such superficial and stereotypical gender relations, and search a little deeper for values … like the guy who listens, communicates well, appreciates our opinions, doesn’t trash the ex or blame the world, has thoughtful opinions of his own, values family, etc. That’s the stuff that should get you through to the next date. And if you both decide there should be a second, or a third date, and he develops feelings and wants to show that by paying for the bill, sure. But let’s cut guys some slack and not expect instant provider mentality on date No. 1.
Kerry,
I think the person that does the asking, should do the paying.
“let’s look beyond such superficial and stereotypical gender relations, and search a little deeper for values … like the guy who listens, communicates well, appreciates our opinions, doesn’t trash the ex or blame the world, has thoughtful opinions of his own, values family, etc.”
Totally agree Kerry. I also feel that lots of people put so much importance in traditions that made sense when women didn’t have careers of their own and were not allowed to make important decisions like voting. On any dinners out, I find a process of means testing happens. If both of you are loaded, doesn’t matter who pays, take it in turns. If you’re both a bit skint, go halves. If you’re a student or full time single mother and he is comfortable, would be stingy for him not to pay, and vice versa, as long as no one’s taking advantage. Let him buy you a drink after and you do the same if he pays. I really dislike stinginess but can normally detect it quite soon.
My ex would do all the chivalrous things and also listen impeccably, communicate, appreciate opinions, be interesting, show family values, actually be the perfect date, and the fact I’m here on BR, need we say more. Saying that, I don’t think he would go on a date with someone he hasn’t already established an unsavoury connection with. But that’s why I say now, I will find out if he’s consistent and honest before I let anything go further and only time can help there.
@Mymble
I never said he wanted to make a fool of me. And we didn’t go out on one date. We spent 3 days together. If he wasn’t interested right after the very first day of us meeting he could have simply LEFT and told me he wasn’t intersted. Why would you stay 2 more days. I think you totally missed my comment. I just pointed out things that I noticed of how he acted that were not normal. Talking to someone for 7 months without seeing them is not usually “Normal” in itself but that was a choice we both made and I don’t think us meeting earlier would have made any difference cause he would have still be an Ass clown and he does have passive aggressive signs. He gets mad; can’t communicate (which he has told me himself that he has never been able to communicate well at all) while making you pay for it Later. I am strictly talking about his behavior and what I saw. I never did say he made a fool of me but he certainly acted like One in more ways than one.
@Mymble
And I forgot to mention that all of his relationships have been online dating. When I asked him about all of his other relationships and why they ended his responses his was “I Don’t Know” …. I guess that’s the same response that he’ll be giving the next online person he hits it off with About Me… He’s a True online Surfer….. Mr.Nice Guy…. Yeah right!
@Allison
I gave Internet dating a try..No really particular reason. I am very capable of of attracting and meeting men in my local area and now It has finally clicked that will have to be exactly how I meet the next man that comes into my life cause it won’t be from online. And I guess another reason could be out of my own FEAR… I have to talk about myself as well cause if we really want things to change we have be willing to look within and find out why we keep making the same mistakes attracting the same kind of ass clowns.
@grace you are so right on. You don’t know some 100% until they fully develop. Everything comes to surface after even a little while and the Bored ones are usually them.
Awakened
for what it’s worth, I was sold on him being an EU twit when you said he brought his young daughter on the ten hour drive to meet up for three days and for the first time with a woman he met on dating site (albeit seven month prior). Who does that? Other than a man who wants to try out the water without having to get wet. (I’m also with you on the socks and the flip-lops! Gee-whizz – he sounds like a total trumpet)
I agree!
You’re in the right place for that!!!!
@Kerry
I have to say that I totally agree with what you are saying cause it shouldn’t be a stereotypical thing that a guy should pay first. When the ex assclown came to see me I actually offered to pay first on our first date that night and I paid dinner for him and his daughters meal. I am sure he was very shocked and may have felt a little “intimidated” behind it. I will never know. Cause I do feel that it’s not about roles and what a man should do when a woman can also do the same thing if she chooses or offers to do so.
@Tired_of_assanov
exactly! a decent person would have said I am not that intersted but there was Nothing “decent” about HIM cause he’s just not that capable of being upfront or honest. I simply sent him away with a TAKE CARE email and he couldn’t be decent enought to respond a simple OK to that. He used his passive aggressive behavior instead. These type of people usually don’t tell you what they Think or feel they just LEAVE… And go on to the NEXT… Catalog shopping is how Nat very well put it. Just to WASTE more TIME with someone NEW.
I am divorced and met a guy that I really like. We really enjoyed each others company but he has huge walls due to a past hurt. He has now closed me out and tells me he can’t do relationship unless it is perfect. I have now been reduced to an object other than a person. Can this be turned around? I have stayed away from him for a few weeks. His pattern is to stay away and then resurface.
Debbie,
He has given you all the info you need to know. Why would you contemplate someone who is incapable of a future?
Debbie, this doesn’t sound good. It came up in another post recently, if guys start off by telling you an issue like this, it gives them a disclaimer. It means he doesn’t have to take responsibility for anything. It’s like you’ve signed something to say, ‘by sticking with you and being around whenever you can be arsed with me, with the knowledge that you are broken and haven’t taken the trouble to fix yourself, I am waiving my right to demand anything from you or to object to how this makes me feel’.
If he hasn’t sorted himself out, he shouldn’t be involved. It seems lame to me. He’s looking for something to magically fill in his own shortcomings, and that’s not what dating is for. He can’t look after himself, and it’s not up to you to do it. Not only that, it makes you feel like you’re not enough. How many hours in an average month does it make you feel rubbish? Most of them by the sounds of it. He doesn’t mind leaving you hanging and has total control, it’s selfish. We all need to be selfish at times but he should recognise it and be sorry, instead of letting the whole thing revolve around him.
A decent man would apologise for being unable to offer you adequate care and being too attracted to you to just be friends, and would get out of your life.
I feel for you. I know what it’s like to have great company and connection, it’s like all the issues are erased once you’re having fun and feel close again. But it’s just a temporary fix, artificial because it isn’t consistent, that leaves you depleted and wanting more. It’s really wasting your time and holding you back.
Happy,
“A decent man would apologise for being unable to offer you adequate care and being too attracted to you to just be friends, and would get out of your life.”
It’s also our responsibility to bail when we hear this type of info. It goes both ways! This is the reason why we have all ended up here, we didn’t listen and hoped they would change. We must take responsibility for our participation or the pattern continues!
Allison, very true and glad you said it. But I still think a man who is self-absorbed enough to develop a “pattern” with someone such as the ‘resurfacing every so often’ game is abnormal and worthy of the contempt in my comment, even though we do indeed have to accept responsibility for sticking with him.
Flush this guy. He has huge walls and, trusts me, you are not ever going to get over them. And neither should you be trying to. What does he think you are, an emotional mountaineer? Continuing with this guy will be like trying to scale the emotional Alps. What he’s telling you is that he doesn’t DO relationships or take any responsibility for the quality of his relationships (what he does do is turn up whenever he feels like it and expect you to do cartwheels trying to deliver ‘the perfect relationship’ FOR him – cos he’s dumped that mission impossible on your shoulders and then buggers off when you start to expect something from him; leaving you feeling that you’re just never good enough no matter how many emotional juggling acts you stump up. he’s already doing the Harry Houdini acts, blowing hot and cold, managing your expectations. Run away like your hair is on fire. And don’t look back. Read Natalie’s Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl book and all her related posts asap. (Another book that will outline what you have in front of you if you continue to imagine you can make this work is Steven Carter’s ‘He’s Scared, She’s Scared’) You also need to understand why you are attracted to what this man is offering you (shag all!) and not running away already.
Im almost 49 and love men. It doesn’t matter what age a woman is or a man is, the patterns, etc are still the same. Women think we are insecure because men can make us think there is always miss perfect just waiting to find him when in fact, she doesn’t exist. They tell themselves that so they feel better about themselves be cause they are insecure. I’ve been on dating sites, too much work and too much drama. But it has opened my eyes wider to how men think. They usually don’t!!!! Most have Been burned by some bimbo who they thought was miss perfect, so when miss nice, got it together, all around great girl comes along, they panic. There are nice guys out there, just haven’t found one yet. Thought I had but a EUM who blows hot and cold, he is not a jerk just clueless to women and relationships.
Lynn
I don’t think you want a man who has a clue about women. he just needs to have a clue about himself. I don’t need to have a clue about men to have a good relationship. Men are all different, like we are.
We don’t like men throwing generalisations around about women so we shouldn’t do the same. It’s not so much for their benefit but for ours. We can’t see what’s in front of us when we are seeing it through the fog of our own prejudices.
At our age, most of the men we meet have had bad relationship experiences. So have we. We’re in the same boat..
Beware the blowing hot. We are all able to call it a red flag when the blowing hot turns to blowing cold. I say call it earlier. AS SOON AS the blowing hot starts, it’s time to roll it back or bow out. Don’t wait for the cold wind to come.
A man who barely knows you has NO RIGHT to promise anything.
Emotions are delicate, our hearts are precious, a responsible human being understands that and doesn’t rush in where angels fear to tread.
It may be a bit boring, even frustrating but slow and steady wins the race. I’ve known the man I’m seeing for over six months and we’ve spoken face-to-face at least twice a week. I like him but I can’t say I know him that well. It takes time.
Dating has definately changed so much with all the technology and dating websites. Its like finding a genuine relationship is like finding a needle in a haystack! There are so many timewasters looking for an ego stroke. As soon as you want to meet up then the red flags start billowing in the wind. My girlfriend was heavily invested in spending time on line with this guy who she could not wait to indulge her time with everyday. Everything else went by the wayside. There were declarations of being soul mates? I was worried about her as she was in fantasy land. They lived 12 hours away from each other. Every time they arranged to meet up he had a problem. 1. A relative had passed away. (fair enough) 2. His sister had a premature baby who was in ICU. 3. He crashed his car and had a whiplash. 4. His horse had died! 5. His brother who was a priest was shot in Mumbai. (no news reports on that one). 6.He could not get time off work. For at least two of these occasions she had booked holidays from work. She was clinging on by a thread now. Still fantasising, still believing and I was not getting through to her. Finally the excuses were running out. The final ” piece de resistance” his cousin emailed to tell her he would no longer be contacting her as he had DIED in a car accident…….he popped up on a different dating site four months later. She wasted ten months of her life and a whole lotta grief on that one.
I am guilty of some of this. I put too much effort into on line dating because there are so few men here that share my values, and yep, I communicate with many men on line kinda for socialization because once again, so few here share my values. However, I understand that on line guys are not to be taken seriously until they step up to the plate. Guys that brag about travelling around the globe ought to make the effort to drive to my town. Otherwise its flush time. I have flushed guys that were short or not in shape, I want a partner tall enough to dance with and I myself am pretty fit; unhealthy folks dont do so well at altitude. That may be shallow but the guys (3 in the past year)in question lied about their height and overall health ( as though I’m not gonna notice?!); two lied about their relationship goals as well. I don’t think this makes me picky or unavailable; I know what does and does not work for me and I am trying to keep it real.
I have the opposite problem. I stick. with a relationship for too long. However I have been focusing on the present and seeing what I can do now so the future is better. Almost like “for the greater good.” (I also try to ignore what the naysayers say because they often try to take credit for my own efforts on the rare occasion I end up agreeing with them.)
It is unrelated to the post but I needed to vent! Ive been working on improving boundaries. Lately I noticed that my boyfriend will blame me for… being me really. For some reason every time we make plans to hang out, he will keep trying to make me change my plans, because that’s how he and his friends have done it, to change plans all the time. Except I’m not like that at all! I have tried to compromise but lately noticed he wants me to do it every time he changes his mind. Now he is holding a grudge because he expects me to know exactly how he is feeling at all times, and, being human, I really cant know unless I had telepathy. His reactions seem rather… immature and it just feels like he is blaming me for personality differences we will inevitably have!
I know what I’m going to do about it, I just wondered if anyone else has had a similar experience?
robin-
yes, i had this experience. …you’ll never guess with whom… with my narcissistic, sociopathic father.
– he makes you change plans
– he does not honor plans
– he is not treating you with respect
– holds a grudge
– expects you to read his mind/feelings – o.O?!?!?
– he makes you responsible for how he feels
– he doesn’t give a shit about how you feel
– everything is your fault
– he is judgmental
– he makes all the rules and expects you to step to them
– he values everyone else over you
– he is immature
– he is selfish
– he expects you to change when all you’re trying to do is be a good actor
robin? hear me now and remember me later: run. run the fuck away from this guy.
you CANnot change him. you MUST not change you. not for him.
Eesh. I think in my situation, I can actually do better.
Thanks for your advice. My bf cares…but not where it matters for me and especially not when it negatively affects him in any way. Now that you mention it, I remember a pretty good example of this. Currently, my bf and I don’t yet live together (which is probably a good thing now), and I still live at home with parents to save up to eventually buy a house. Long story short, the bf and I planned to hang out with friends, but something unexpected happened at work, that made me very depressed. I knew I needed to stay at home, to pull myself together… but his first reaction was not how I was doing, or “we can go on ahead without you, no problem,” but “what are our friends going to think?!” Heh. That’s a pretty big red flag. O__o
And yeah, I have no idea where he got the “You should have known what I was thinking” at the time. I mean, I really work at remembering details about a person (I’m notoriously bad at this even among family), but there ARE going to be times where I’m going to forget or not know what the person is thinking unless he tells me!
Also….this is going to sound odd, but maybe I’m not the first person to ask this….how do I run? Should I break up with him first and do no contact, or cut off contact completely?
Just wrote a TON of posts… I guess I’m letting it all out now that there’s a way for me to.
@cc, funny that you should mention that your father is like that..my father is exactly the same way. When I was a kid I just thought my dad seemed really smart… but now, not so much. To me it’s a lot worse than what my bf is doing, because at first I honestly did think my bf tries to listen to my feelings (except where it matters apparently…guess that’s where everyone shows their true colors!). It’s also pretty bad because I currently have to live with this until I pass my professional exam and find a job (in other words, until March 2013, at the latest). I’m glad to know that I am not the only person going through this as well! It’s pretty bad on the father front too. If my dad had his way, he would NEVER let me go out, not even to the library to study! He’s extremely paranoid and thinks everyone, even his own family, is out to get him or hide secrets from him somehow. To him, everything that goes wrong IS my fault, and whenever everything goes great, he tries to take credit for it and justify why he should keep on yelling at me. Our family comes from a culture that still mostly emphasized the role of the parent as LAW even though it was starting to accept equality among family members. Heck, even families from such cultures (I know of another one) who have lived in the United States for years STILL condone this behavior (even hitting your own kids), even when the kids are grown (such as graduated from college and moved out).
It is unbelievable!!
robin-
sorry your dad is like that. and doubly sorry because its very difficult to learn to choose healthy partners when we come from this type of history. please work on healing the past and healing you so you can choose better for you.
anyway. if you want to run, some suggestions:
first, make sure you’re firm in your decision. its just destructive to go back and forth. it will hurt if/when you break up, so make sure that’s really what you’re ready for and that you have a plan to heal post-breakup.
then, how you do it depends on how long you’ve been going out. there is no pleasant way to break up, but you can make it honorable. it think that’s the best you can aim for. since you refer to him as your bf, the decent thing to do is address it with him. just disappearing is not cool, and you wouldn’t want someone to do that to you.
get your talking points together, write them down, even. know very well what you want to say first so you don’t lose your cool or become accusatory. just state how you feel and don’t point fingers. i find this works: “i’m sorry but we need to talk. i like you and i wanted this to work, but i honestly don’t feel that we’re a good fit with each other. this isn’t working for me, and i need to end it. i know in my heart (or better, my guts) that this is the right thing.”
say something like this either in person or on the phone. let him say what he wants to but stick to your guns (you have to be SURE before you have the conversation). if he gets in the slightest bit mean or nasty, *end the conversation*. “i know this is unpleasant. i’m not hurting you on purpose. if you’re going to be mean to me, i’m going to go.” then GO.
make it clear that its best if you cease contact with each other. once the conversation is over, go NC.
trust me, it will hurt, and you will need time to get over it. so have a plan for that. then, seriously, work on divorcing yourself from identifying with critical, paranoid, controlling people. you are your own person. you get to decide EVERYTHING for yourself.
good luck.
sorry more…
its not merely funny or coincidental that your dad is like my dad and we both have chosen similar partners. this is how it works, we all model new relationships on our primary family relationships. if the latter were unhealthy, the former will be too until we learn to break the pattern.
it can take TIME to see the pattern and MORE time to break it. so, not to be callous, dump this guy and start working on that. the faster you do it, the less of your life you’ll spend dicking around with ACs. they’re an absolute waste of time.
again, good luck.
I’m a bit lost with regards to this post Natalie and the comments with regards to online dating. Based on your posts, I know FBGs have a particular challenge with regards to online dating. I’m the poster FBG. After a year or so in total men-o-pause and total immersion in BR, I’ve only done the online dating thing for 1 month but I’m enjoying it because “… each dating experience is actually an opportunity to positively learn about what you would like to find in another person and even understanding yourself (your values).” That’s as long as I can keep the Dreamer, FBG in check. Even though some dates have been miserable, I am getting a feel for what is miserable. That’s a good thing. I now know to take a parachute and jump. I’m just having such a great experience with online dating based on everything you have written with regards to dating online as well as meeting someone at the grocery store or gas station. So tomorrow evening, I’ll be meeting with a guy from my hood for a hike to the beach. Maybe I’m having so much fun at online dating because I’m very studious student of BR? You are fabulous Natalie. Where would I be without you and the BR community? I’m so totally enjoying life now. That says it all. You changed my life.
hello,
i beleive that online dating, is a nromal way of dating, in our 21st century, we ca not generalize an idea that all men we men online are assclowns or eum, the assclowns and eum are found everywhere, we can meet them in or daily life, but they have access to us through the net, i kknow that there r many assclowns and eum online, that is why we have to be very cautious, because we do not know the person online n his motives, but on the other hand we have to be able to accept reality n disappointments, n always be postive n confident that we r going to find the one, and the net is a way of many other ways.
i am 32 but i do not allow my age to make me feel anxious n miserable, becaus e i have not yet the one, i am confident on myself, i might lower my standards, i do not look @ materialistic stuff, i might travel with him abroad, i might like somebody blond although my type r brunette, i might overlook his educational level, etc…. but i won’t overlook his standards, his essence, his ethics, his respect to me and others,,,, so girls who are late to get engaged because they r always looking for the better one financially or physically, look within n think again.
i disagree that a woman shall pay on her first day, the real man is the provider, he must not allow her to pay for her meal, he is the one who invited her so he must be committed and pay, when a man is in question if he can provide then that will drop his ego, the more he is able to provide the more alive he feels, he likes to feel needed, n to let him feel like this is to provide for u,,,, a test of his love is his will to provide
the better n bigger syndrome:
it is as if a person about to commit, and then another a better option comes along, n your partner starts to think again about the commitment, and the other partner starts to become needy n insecure. the thinker feels the pressure, and opt out.
they leave a line of lovers which is good to their egos at the short term, but at the long term, they will feel lonely and emptiness, and repent the options they left behind, they can not make a final choice. It is not healthy to compare them to others, they will keep on searching and won’t settle down
reasons: these people are usually anxious, they worrk about their decisions and the possibilities, they are selfish, they think that the better deals will bring them happiness and love etc… money…
The cure is that they must recognize they have this syndrome, to know how to love. Follow their heart, check what they really want, follow the answer, keep their commitments, stop being tempted by the bigger deals and strive to do the right thing.
Thanks Natalie
Have a good day
You worded it perfectly. I might actually have this. It used to be that I’d like anyone because they seemed to have something better than the previous guy I thought I liked. At this time, I’m starting to wonder I’m really staying in a relationship not to be a dead horse, but in fact because I’m waiting for the “bigger and better option” which never did come. In fact, if the relationship really does have huge problems like that, I could just opt out….
Thank you Natalie, I love your post! I am stuck with my divorced lover and keep carry on meeting him for physical entertainment I was advised here by lovely girls and my friend Alina (aka Little Star) to dump him, but I cant do that yet. We agreed that we going to be FWB till the Special Person comes alone. I know he is looking and surfing as he is still on POF so am I, I told him I will dump him immediately if I met someone special and he agreed with it…I know where I am standing or I am kidding myself?!
Hi HS – I don’t think you’re available for another person to come along while you’re involved with someone you describe as “stuck with.” Personally, I’d be kind of offended to hear someone say they were with me while looking for someone ‘special,’ as if I am not special enough. By staying in this situation you repeatedly tell yourself it’s okay to be physically close to someone who’d rather be with someone else. Yuck. Can’t be good for you.
HS
If you have only one “rule”, make it this – you must both be single. 90% of my relationship woes were down to “overlapping” men. Not only is it morally suspect but you’re not coming from a place of confidence and strength. You’re mostly reacting to the current unsatisfactory relationship. If you fear being single you need to tackle that fear. Because even if you are in a relationship that fear will still be there. Yes, you can still feel lonely, isolated, not good enough. rejected and unloved in a relationship. A new relationship can be a distraction for a while but sooner or later the pigeons come home to roost.
If the date told me he has been shagging someone on the side but is dumping her now he knows he likes me, I would knock him into next week. No healthy minded person wants to be a part of that. Of course, you don’t have to tell the new “special” person what you’re up to, but wouldn’t it be better just to have a clean sheet?
I think you ARE kidding yourself. Sounds to me that this arrangement is the FWB’s idea and you are going along with it because you won’t do the right thing for yourself.
HS, I’m thinking you may be kidding yourself. As long as you are doing the FWB thing, you aren’t available for that Special Person. Of course, he agreed with it. He gets the benefits without any responsibility or commitment. I thought the same thing and thought I could do it too. Nope. I wasn’t available for that Special Person as long as I did the OW FBG gig. I had to take a year and change off of guys, immerse myself in BR, and get my life together. Otherwise, I was simply shark bait. I had FWB, FBG tattooed on my forehead. No Special Person is going to take that bait.
The sharks still bite but there is a difference now. A 28 yo with the screen name “younghotguyforu” has been IM’ing me and I thought I blocked him. I’m 53 which is clearly stated on my profile several times and my pics are recent.. Today, I responded with it’s a no go dude. His response, let’s just hook up ’till you meet that special guy”. Nope. Last week, I got the same line from a 41 yo. who disappeared before the first date. Apparently, hooking up ’till you meet that special guy” is a pretty standard line as I’ve encountered it several times and I’ve only been online for a month.
I’m finding it odd how guys will sign up and get in line to be an option. Is it just to get shagged? They don’t apparently care the order? Totally Yuck. I’m not an option. And neither are they. Pfft.
Run HS. Run as fast as you can. You can get much better physical entertainment and maybe even a relationship based on trust, respect, and honesty. Run girl.
Thank you dear Magnolia, Grace and Runnergirl, I am so lucky to be part of this great BR community! Yes, yes and yes, I am kidding myself, you are all spot on!!! I don’t know anymore how NORMAL relationship works! I told you already that I rid of AC number 1 almost two months ago, thanks to AC number 2. IF you asked me now: “DO you want to be with AC number 2 for the rest of your life?” My response will be: “Oh, NO!” SO it is not even logical to carry on meeting him if I don’t see a future with him! I registered on new dating site (no more POF for me), and yesterday chatted to a new guy, he is younger than me, talented, interesting to talk to and we arranged to meet next Sunday. IF the date will go well, I will drop AC like a hot potato, I promise:-) Love you all!!!
HS! I’m laughing and shaking my head over here! Were you listening at all?
Magnolia, thank you for your comment honey, yes I was listening and yesterday night I DUMPED HIM FOR GOOD:-) NO more AC number 2, I couldn’t put up for being another booty call, I have to respect myself and this loser is NOT part of my life anymore!!!
@Fearless
Yes him bringing his daughter along which made it oh so awkward for me. How stupid is that? But that is how Cold he is. He wouldn’t even allow me to enjoy those 3 days cause he had his daughter with us the entire time. Makes me sick everytime I think about it. And oh the he drove 10 hours because he ‘s afraid to fly. Too lame to even get on a plane. How can you have a long distance relationship if you are too dam scared to take a flight. That right there should have been my key to Exit left in the very beginning.
Awakened,
Wow, he drove ten hours to see you when you had only ever communicated long-distance before? He trusted you enough to bring his daughter with him? He felt he knew you well enough to be himself, dress down and make a joke of it? He came CLOTHES SHOPPING with you? Hot damn. I’m not saying he wasn’t the bad things you said as well but interpreting all his traits as negatives seems like it might make it harder to find someone in the future who would be great for you even if they share some of those traits! 🙂
OK, I’m going to weigh in here on the Awakened Spent 7 Months On A Fantasy Long Distance Relationship With A Man Who Drove 10 Hours With His Daughter, A Bad Haircut & Socks With Flip Flops While Paying The Bill But Not The Tip & Then Not Putting His Hands On You While Sitting Beside His Daughter.
I’ll give credit where credit is due – socks and flip flops are a hell no!
But on a more serious note, the reason why this whole thing is problematic is that you spent 7 months on this rigmarole to find out things you could have found out in a week, two or a month. You thought you knew him better and had built him up because 7 months had gone by.
Fact is, he drove 10 hours with his daughter. It’s not a crime and I imagine that he was between a rock and hard place. He didn’t let his child down and thought that he could juggle both.
The haircut etc – I have friend’s who are happily married to men with dodgy beards and haircuts.
The bill – maybe he was strapped for cash. Who knows? But if the tip was only $10 not only is that hardly the end of the world, but it’s not an upscale tip.
I think you’d find that a lot of people are hard pushed to be physically affectionate with a virtual stranger in front of their child.
You both fell short of the fantasy. Your displeasure and disappointment is clear and even if you don’t think it was, it would have been clear on the date. You knew and he knew that you weren’t happy and you know what? He probably wasn’t either. It was wrong of him to disappear but it was not a reflection on you – he took the cowards option as he wanted to avoid conflict.
I doubt he felt intimidated by you – this man was not pleasing you on the date. He *wasn’t* and it was apparent. When you communicate your lack of acceptance of who someone is, it is…rejection. You took him being who he is and him not ok-ying what you liked as a rejection of you as well.
It makes no sense that if you feel that you’re attractive and could date a man closer to home, that you would logistically hook yourself to someone who lives a 10 hour drive away. You are not as serious about a relationship as you think. I know someone who meets women closer to home but says he doesn’t want a relationship to them. When he announces that he has a girlfriend, guess who it is? A woman he met once who lives thousands of miles away that he blows fantasy hot air out of his arse over Skype, email and IM with.
This whole thing is a mess because it dragged out for 7 months and you both built sandcastles in the sky. You are spending too much time ripping this man and avoiding the reality of your involvement and not enough time taking responsibility for your own part in setting yourself up for a big fall.
Wow, LaLa land must have quite a population of Fallbacks!! I used to think I was the only one and going crazy with this elusive texting, IM-ing, Skyping, difficult-to-pin guy, but clearly not the only one!
Having a similar situation happening to me right now due to long distance. Thanks to your response to Awakened I was able to get some insight into a recent argument my bf and I had. In regards to the issue we were fighting over, we were still building sandcastles in the sky and not looking realistically into the now of what we’re doing. We expected the other person to do something for us without having to tell them (some people just can’t read minds) or assume he or she will react to a situation in the same way we would (I don’t think even a clone of ourselves would necessarily react the same way we would). Got some work to do on the relationship.
Natalie … love this comment to Awakened. I don’t know how many dates, relationships went like this/turned out this way with me constantly making myself the victim/feeling angry towards the poor guy (THOUGH I will say, they definitely play their role, too … just not as significantly as I gave them credit for!)
Its a VERY humbling day when we see it for what it is.
And so freeing.
I see so much in my past where I have created unwarranted drama. No wonder I had men fleeing left and right!! (Quite frankly, I’d of run from me, too.) I have a friend who used to call me a “Texas Tornado” because I always left a path of destruction behind me!! (And I just thought he meant because I was messy. ) And I thought I was single because there were no good men. I thought the look of bewilderment in a man’s eyes was LOVE!! It was FEAR!!! Ha ha ha!!! When a man said he was afraid of me, he really was. LOL!! I’m sorry, this is just striking me as so funny right now. Oh my, we just have so much more control in these situations than what we think. Thank you, Natalie, for all you do. Really, thanks so much.
@truth=Freedom
That EU assclown used Can’t get time off from work as his excuse. That is why it took 7 months for us to finally meet. His excuse was he had no leave time. Now he has Plenty of time cause he was LET GO/ LAID Off the week he came to see me from his JOB.
Hi Awakened,
I once had someone do this to me- yes, similar amount of time chatting online too so I was lulled into a false sense of familiarity – “I am so busy right now with X, Y, Z, I will have more time in a month or so” and blah blah blah. THESE GUYS USE TIMING TO PUT YOU ON ICE.
If you don’t waste you time waiting, then an assclown can’t waste it either! If they don’t have time now, what makes you think they will have time for a relationship.
No time for you, no time for relationship!!!
FLUSH!!
Thanks Natalie for another gentle invitation to take some responsibility!
Anxious animals constantly shifting to the next position won’t settle even to eat or sleep. We can falsely inflate the stakes in dating and relationships to a level where we can’t even commit to surviving as ourselves for fear we might ‘fail’ to be what we fantasize another person is most likely to validate. Duh. So on we surf, he’s not good enough, she’s not good enough when actually it’s just: I can’t find anyone I’m comfortable with because I’m not comfortable full stop!
What I understand from your post is: if we commit to what we are doing and who we are in the here and now, we can live. A satisfying relationship is built on the solid ground of living a life — a position where we have some self-knowledge and desire more, and use our powers to act, to be, to have what we have got, to solve problems and take risks and decisions. Goes for both sexes all the time.
What I need to put aside, in order to be present in my life:
• ‘Someone else needs to be at fault for this ‘failure’ ‘ (instead of ‘O.K. what will improve my situation now, today?’)
• ‘I’d rather be in the past / future / some other life’ (instead of ‘this IS where and who I am … and today I am going to …’)
Hey there. Glad you came over Natalie. Wish I could have made it as I have been reading your blog since near its beginnings. Hope it was a good trip.
What you are saying is that dating like a treadmill never gives you the opportunity to fall in love. If people took the time to really get to know each other they might fall in love. When you are in love, there is no looking around for the next best thing. I have found that this dating treadmill is especially so and there I have stopped. Thanks for your words.
@Nat Thanks for giving it to me CUT; Clean; and DRY. I appreciate the Realness. I do acknowledge my part in all of this. I acknowledge that I allowed the “Fantasty” to drag on for 7 months and I previously wanted OUT because it was taking him so long to see me until he just out of the blue said to me one day I am coming to see you this weekend. I know everyone is thinking dam he drove 10 hours with his daughter to see you but I think that two things contributed to him wanting to make this Trip suddenly. 1. He had just lost a close relative to cancer and 2. Two days before he came to see me after he had already announced that he was coming he was also LET Go from his job of 10 years. So he was facing all of that and came on to see me anyway. We were just friends but It obviously had to be a connection atlease I thought between us but apparently not enough cause he couldn’t have the decency to say hey I had a great time but this is not going to work. He wasn’t a terrible person where he couldn’t just say those words but at the same time he never communicated his feelings to me. We never even said we were going to stop talking we both just stop contacting. When he stopped contacting I never called him to find out why other than my one email which I never even got a response to. I was just telling him in that email that although I wanted us to be compatible and was hoping that we were that I was ok with us not being and to take care. If he was feeling the same way he could have said ok or responded but he did not. That’s the part that bothers me. Too coward to say anything.
awakened-
i gotta say one thing.
“although I wanted us to be compatible and was hoping that we were that I was ok with us not being and to take care. If he was feeling the same way he could have said ok or responded but he did not. That’s the part that bothers me. Too coward to say anything.”
this feels a little unfair. i know you had a bad experience preceded by 7 months of buildup, and there is always a shock when communication suddenly ceases. but your email to him essentially told him to get lost. i don’t think most guys, after the negative experience you shared together and that send off, would argue. so, yes, it would be nice to have closure, and i’m a closure girl too, but its not surprising that he didn’t respond.
i can’t believe i’m defending the guy, but you’re really hard on him. of course, you’re not required to like him. but i’m concerned that this is the way you might be approaching all interactions with men. yes, we all should be discerning and make judgments for ourselves, and opt out when it doesn’t add up, and i know its a huge disappointment, but take it from one who learned this the hard way – hammering guys doesn’t work.
a lot of your reaction is because of the MONTHS of buildup and his sudden arrival, daughter in tow. and it was probably even weirder because he was now a guy who had just lost his job, so maybe his arrival signaled some other unvoiced intention that we don’t know about.
even given all of the above, nobody we just met owes it to us to be what we want and need, just like we don’t owe the same to them. and i’m concerned that you’re coming at this with too much … sorry … entitlement. just … in future, don’t wait so long, don’t let it build up.
He only abandoned you once. Every time you imagine it, ruminate on it, and beat yourself up (and him) with the memory of it after that, you are doing to yourself.
Give yourself the gift of imagining exactly what you would want him to say and do, the perfect script. This is where you can use fantasy to your advantage instead of making yourself crazy with it. Imagine he left in the more perfect version ever, and then feel your feelings of loss and grief and let yourself heal.
I did this myself just recently. I *hated* my ex with a purple passion, and was so furious with him because I felt he exploited me when I told him at the very beginning I was mentally ill. I have flip-flopped for YEARS thinking I was going to get some kind of return on that investment, that we could be friends or *something* and after a conversation with him the other night, I realized it was the 100 millionth repetition of the SAME conversation. I also finally realized, after hashing it out with him mentally for the 100 millionth time, that he was just an actor in my drama. The conversation was internal. So I caught myself, and imagined him *finally* saying what I wanted to hear…”You are right, I hurt you, I’m so sorry. I couldn’t see how much pain you were in, I was so disconnected from it. I heard you say you were mentally ill but I didn’t care because I thought I could fix it. I fucked up. I can see you did every thing you possibly could to please me, you turned yourself inside and out and made yourself sick over trying to make me happy and all of those changes I promised never happened. I’m really sorry. I love you. Your body is your temple, you have a right to sleep with whoever you want when you want for whatever reasons or for no reason at all, and I made you feel like utter shit. I’m so sorry.” Then I cried, then laughed, then asked him to disappear, and he did.
I’d really love to write a post on using active imagination. Being a dreamer and having the ability to fantasize like it’s Fantasy Island is a gift, but it beats us up when we use it to disconnect from a painful reality. The trick is to learn the difference between the images in our minds and “real” life. We don’t have control over other people but we have full control over the demons in our minds.
Awakened, I wonder what it might be like for you if you could be kinder and gentler with yourself? If you could drop your defenses, discover what you are defending and give yourself the care you need? I wonder how it might be different if you could stop punishing him for not being your fantasy?
Side note: I left out something important here, as far as I can tell we can’t just go around rearranging our memories willy-nilly.
The ability to play with them in a way that serves us comes AFTER we are willing to accept the past and accept what happened and accept the pain and accept reality AS IS.
Trying to change the past in our mind so we don’t have to accept it and to avoid our difficult feelings and responsibility for our impact on others is what makes us crazy and ruminate and spin eternally.
@CC I have wondered in the back of my mind when I sent that email only 4 days after I didn’t hear from him and ending it with a simple take care; that may have spoke to soon. I was basically telling him to get lost and never really gave him a chance to respond with how he really felt. He could have very well gotten pissed and took that as an ok I’m OUT. I guess I will never know and I pray about it everyday that God will bring the right kind of closure and settle any indifference that were thrown between us cause in actuality I really liked him an although we both had a few in compatibilities I was willing to give it a try. After his visit to see me he didn’t just suddenly stop contacting me. I asked him if things were ok between us and his response was “Yes why wouldn’t they Be?
@Sunshine true alot of it is just in my head. I’m rehearsing every little detail of what happened; and I am basically making my own self sick. I won’t be posting on this anymore. I will just continue my end of NC as I have been; and learn to not just let it GO but focusing on letting it go in my MIND and not bringing up the subject of him or the situation ever again. I’ll get there….thanks you guys for each and every comment. I take it all in stride. Gotta just move forward and get over it…
I´m new to internet dating and so far I´m a bit surprised at my own attitude towards it. I´ve always been a bit of a FBG – aided by a tendency to live in Lalaland – but now I sometimes find myself acting like some sort of Carla Bruni. I guess I´m still broken hearted over the EUM who strung me along for almost a year, future faking me into a virtual/twisted relationship.
Now, I just wait until these guys on the site get in touch with me, filter out the weirdos, and accept whenever one friendly seeming guy wants to take me out. I even went to a motel with the attractive guy I was avoiding to sleep with, because I realised I didn´t want anything serious with him.
The thing is, today I noticed the thing I like about this scenario is that it is so different from the scraps this virtual EUM was throwing at me. It´s like, when I´m having a drink with some decent but unattractive guy, I think “wow look at me having a proper date!” or when I got out of the motel: “everyone can see I just had sex with Attractive Blue Eyes!” Never mind the sex was just okay, I was thrilled because it was in-person and I even thought “see, EUM? This is how it´s done”.
Not quite the surfer attitude, I think, but not too Emotionally Available either, right? So am I becoming an AC myself? Or just trying to mend my pride?
I would like to be the nice me again, though, but I seem to be evolving into a vain cold hearted diva (not to say bitch).
Lillia,
Are you simply looking for hook ups?
if you are looking for a relationship, this is not the way to go-, I may also add, it will do nothing for your self-esteem, also it also sounds like you’re still getting scraps from strangers.
wait a sec, allison…
lilia-
i can’t tell exactly what you’re really saying, but i don’t think you’re being a cold-hearted diva. i don’t see anything wrong with some (safe) meaningless fun after having your heart rototilled. i don’t see anything wrong with going on some dates just to go on them, just to date, just to be and feel normal.
the only caution i would give you is to keep your eye on what you really want. some (safe) harmless flings? no problem! but be honest with yourself and with the guys you’re dating. and the second you feel wrong about it, STOP. maybe you need a recovery period. but, eventually, if you start to really want a relationship, reassess how you’re doing things, what you’re asking for and what you’re accepting.
right now i’d say you’re trying to mend your pride. just make sure you have your self-esteem and your boundaries intact. be a little careful with yourself. otherwise? have fun!!*
*but please, again, be safe
Yes, CC, I think this is just me scraping my self esteem off the ground. Suddenly feeling NORMAL again! Like someone fun to spend some time with.
After months and months of staying home, wondering why the EUM wont see me in person if he´s been texting me every day… telling me I´m the most attractive being on earth, and how much he desires me… feeling terribly frustrated and insecure because the only intimacy we have is virtual… Actions never matching his lovely, captivating words. (And me speculating for hours: is he impotent?secretly married? gay? weird? am I weird?)
So anyway. I believed I wanted a relationship but now I´m feeling wonderful with just a bit of normal attention – with some guys wanting to see me in real life. And no, I´m not looking for hookups, just trying to meet new people. And don´t worry – playing it really safe.
The thing that feels strange is that I´m no longer putting myself in the role of the victim. I don´t feel like I have to change myself anymore to be wanted/loved, if that makes any sense.
Lilia,
I felt exactly the same way when I started dating after a mere crumbs, phone-only whatevership!! It was a thrill to sit face-to-face with a flesh-and-blood guy. It was awesome to be touched. It was very reassuring that yes, some men will actually put in the effort to show up in person. I too think it’s okay to enjoy it, as long as you reflect on it. Which you are doing. It’s a positive phase. You seem to be very clear about what you’re getting out of it. Hopefully you can express this to your dates with as much clarity as you did here.
lilia-
it makes perfect sense! yaaaay!!! that’s wonderful!
that’s an amazing change, and it seems as if, after being stuck with the EUM, you unstuck yourself and broke out! freedom!
have fun flexing your muscles! they’re all yours!
I had an ex who told me that being surrounded by images and films of beautiful/ amazing/ unreal women made him compare me to them and not to women he knew. I always thought that women are more practical than that and know a good thing when they see it. Maybe not.