I don’t know if it’s because it’s the new year, but I’ve had quite a few people sharing their quite negative beliefs about their future relationship prospects and what they view as the problems with the world. When put together, it looks like this:
From people in their twenties: Nobody in their twenties wants to settle down.
There are no good black men to date.
If I don’t make it out of my twenties without being married, I’m going to end up alone forever. (No doubt eventually being found dead in an apartment being feasted on by Alsatians.)
People in their late twenties want to be with people in their early twenties.
It’s going to be really hard to meet someone with my issues.
From people in their thirties: It’s really hard to find someone.
All the people in their twenties are getting the great people in their thirties.
All the good men are gone.
All women are really picky.
All the white women are getting all of the good black men. (Note that would be the same black men that don’t exist for others…)
People are really f*cked up and untrustworthy.
I can’t get a relationship because I’m intelligent/have a good job/not intelligent enough/don’t have a good job.
From people in their forties: It’s going to be nigh on impossible to find someone who wants a relationship, never mind to settle down.
Women/men don’t want to be with a guy/woman with a few kids or who can’t or doesn’t want kids.
Guys only want women who are in their twenties with perky tits.
All the women in their thirties are nabbing the forty-something guys.
By this stage in life, people have too many problems.
I’ve made so many mistakes and I’ve obviously missed the boat – I’m unlikely to love again.
They’ve never been married and they’re in their forties – there must be something wrong with them.
They’ve been married before – there must be something wrong with them.
There was an article on a website that said it’s tricky to date – that’s my chances screwed then.
From people in their fifties: I don’t hold out much hope of meeting anyone again.
All the good guys are gone/dead.
All the thirty and forty-something’s are getting the fifty-somethings.
People in their fifties just want to shag around or get married to people in their twenties and thirties.
If they’re in their fifties and they’re single, there must be something wrong with them.
People in their sixties want people who are under fifty.
What’s very interesting about the stories we tell ourselves about why we believe love and a relationship isn’t going to happen for us, is that when you piece together what’s being said, it becomes clear that people who say these things about themselves, relationships, life, and others, don’t believe in love or them being capable of having a mutually fulfilling relationship at any age. That and all of these people across every age group are contradicting the crap out of each other.
What we believe is really about what we believe our capabilities are in that context. Every single last one of these broad sweeping statements says: I don’t believe that love can happen for me. The last chance saloon has gone.
Every time I hear statements like this, you don’t realise that you’re doling out your excuse for why you don’t think you should bother 1) changing and 2) trying.
There may be several reasons and experiences that fuel this but when it all boils down to it, it’s ‘I’m not good enough’.
In spite of evidence of people forging new relationships every day, of there being real love, real happiness, real commitment, real respect, real care, real trust, what you believe about yourself means that you think you’re likely to fail.
Do you think that the odds are stacked against you? Do you think you’re an anomaly? Do you think you’re doomed?
You have an anomaly state of mind. You’re back to the long-shot mentality.
When you’ve pursued unhealthy relationships, it has in essence come down to trying to convince someone to make you the exception to their rule of behaviour. Can you see a running theme here?
Fear of failure and making mistakes, plus a desire to remain in your comfort zone guide your choices by catering to negative and unrealistic beliefs which then give you an outside chance of it working out. You’ve already accepted failure, so you can’t ‘fully’ fail which also lets you off the hook for being responsible for your own life.
Instead of acknowledging where you’ve pegged yourself as a long shot, you can tell yourself that there’s nobody decent to date or that it’s impossible for your age group.
It’s not that some concerns aren’t real – your concerns are your concerns – but it’s interesting that when given a choice between focusing on evidence of people defying your predictions, you choose to focus on what caters to your beliefs, and ultimately your self-fulfilling prophecy.
If you’re one of those people that hears about someone else’s relationship experience or reads an article about relationships and goes into a downward spiral, it’s like looking for any excuse to stick with your firmly held beliefs.
It doesn’t matter what age you are – I’ve given people aged between 20-55 examples of people finding love. Do you know what the person who has essentially given up on themselves says out loud or privately? “Yeah well they’re beautiful/lucky/don’t have the same issues/in a bigger city/in a smaller city/haven’t been hurt as much as me.”
Stop. This is bullshit. It is bad enough when others eff you over and sell you short, but it’s even worse when you do it.
As I explained to a reader, this mentality is like hearing about people having difficulty getting a job and then saying “There are no jobs” or “I’m unlikely to ever get a decent job again”. That’s just not frickin true. I’m not saying it’s not harder to get a job, just like I’m not even going to suggest that it’s a piece of cake to meet someone either, but you know what?
Even before there was online dating, texting, and a more casual attitude to shagging it up, people have been griping about problems with relationships. And the job market.
If you give up on love, you give up on yourself. That’s self-love by the way.
Nobody who genuinely cares about and loves themselves dedicates their time and energy to forecasting a life without opportunities.
It is natural to be hurt. It’s natural to even feel a bit jaded, especially if you’ve done your fair share of shady relationships, but instead of declaring yourself bankrupt and seeing the world through a distorted lens, invest time and energy on being 100% positively focused on you and addressing your beliefs and relationship habits.
It ain’t over till it’s over. How can you say you’ll never love again or that you’ve experienced everything, or that there’s no decent people left to date? You haven’t finished living yet! If you have so much of a crystal ball into your future, it’s a shame you couldn’t have seen your way to seeing yourself out of trouble previously!
The last chance saloon hasn’t gone and people in every age group find love, just like people in every age group find trouble. What I do know is that the story you’re writing, doesn’t have to end the way you’ve written it. Write it differently, see it differently, talk it differently.
If I believed everything people said about me or listened to what everyone has to say about the world’s relationship prospects, or even listened to my old beliefs, I wouldn’t be where I am today – somewhere far different from what I originally forecast or expected.
Your thoughts?
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First time posting here but just wanted to say that I love this site and all the articles. They really give me insight into a lot of my own behavior and the behavior of the man I was recently involved with. We are no contact now (only a week) because that was what he decided after his roommate/girlfriend and his long distance girlfriend (me) found out about each other, and frankly I am relieved because I had been trying to go no contact without much success. He was my first adult relationship after 25 years in an emotionally abusive relationship with a man with borderline personality disorder to boot. If I hadn’t found this site I think I would be in much worse shape emotionally than I am now. I do not believe that I will never find love again, I just have no clue how to go about doing it. I work full-time and have a seven year old that occupies much of my free time. I worry I will never find myself in a situation where I will meet a single available man and I worry that even after everything I know, I will ignore all the warning signs I ignored this past time around, because it was so addicting to experience that kind of joy once again in my life.
Hi Lianne, I’d go a bit easy on yourself. It’s been a week, you’ve had some emotionally treacherous experiences – I’d concern yourself more with taking the time to heal and grieve the loss of this relationship, to raise your self-esteem and to get on with your life. I put it this way – if you found the room for this latest asshole in your life with a seven year old kid, you can find the room for a decent guy in the future. Find love within you first. There’s tons of stuff on this site about self-esteem plus a host of resources on the web, books etc. Take some time out and put 100% of your energy into positively focusing on you and of course, your child. Be thankful that you found out about the other woman – you’re free of this jackass.
I’m divorced nearly one year – and BIG thank you, Natalie, for helping me through it with encouragement and your posts and blogs and the teleconference early last year – and I’m attracted to someone new. He’d like to talk with me, I sent him my number and – this is SO hard – if he doesn’t, I’m not going to contact him. This behavior is new to me, and I owe it to you, Natalie. BTW, I’m 54, and many of the men I meet are divorced with kids. Yea since I have no kids. The Power upstairs knows what He/She is doing, and I have faith.
Hi Sue – I remember when you got divorced! How time has flown! Breathe out and remember he’s just one man and the possibility of a date. Don’t build him up into anything beyond that. I know you want to meet someone, but this man isn’t the key to life itself, whether he’s fabulous or not.
This was my perspective for years. I always latched onto the wrong guy who wasn’t really available because I really didn’t think there would be another chance. And I just had to stick around for him to change his mind as there was nobody else out there. Now I’m single and in my mid-30s and recently my view has changed. I know there is someone out there. And since then I’m meeting good guys all the time and am going on many more dates than I ever did before!
Amen LarLa – keep meeting the guys and more importantly, keep the positive outlook.
Were you in my mind this morning Nat? You’ve nailed it again. Thank you…
Haha Marg – can you feel me tapping your shoulder?
Very long time reader, never posted though, so here I go 🙂
So true! In the last couple of weeks I’ve been buying into these awful feelings of it’s all too hard, I’m just not good enough, I can’t stop these thoughts of the EUM or AC Ex even though it’s almost been a year of NC with the EUM and 3 years with the AC Ex. It’s been awful, especially since I promised myself I would stop all of this in 2012.
Yesterday I went to my Kinesi appointment where my lovely kinesiologist pointed out that even I was sick of it all and that all I had to do was choose not to entertain the thoughts anymore. All I have to do is stop mentally from thinking the thoughts, each time they pop up and affirm something positive to myself instead. And I had to work hard at it.
It is easy sometimes to get hooked up in what my Kinesi says is the persona that I’ve created for myself of being the broken, hurt victim in this game called life. She pointed out that I’m getting something out of all of this and I guess she’s right. I’ve held onto these negative thoughts about relationships past as a way to justify to myself that I’m unworthy, don’t deserve any better and will forever fail.
Isn’t that just the awfulest thing ever? And the thing is that no one is doing that to me. This is me doing it to myself! I’m not a victim in life, life is about living and as NML says it’s not my last chance saloon!
I guess the main thing I’m trying to say is life is all about choices. And it’s my God given right to choose what’s best for me. Nobody else, Me. I’ve chosen to take time off the relationship path as I want to heal and discover Me. And as of yesterday I’ve chosen to stop driving myself insane over things that have finished, are in the past, don’t exist and I don’t give a real toss about anyway. Today I choose not to continue to buy into the negative BS that I’ve been spewing out into my universe about life, love and Hipsters 😛
Thankyou Natalie for being a source of profound knowledge, inspiration and solace. Also to all the lovely commentors who provide amazing support and insights.
Love the name BannanaBubbles. Big fan of kinesiology and actually took my two year old last weekend as she’s had some rashes. I’ve been going on and off for 6 years. Listen to her and *listen* to yourself . “It is easy sometimes to get hooked up in what my Kinesi says is the persona that I’ve created for myself of being the broken, hurt victim in this game called life.” Absolutely and mine said something similar to me when I broke forth like a dam with all of my pent up negativity. “And it’s my God given right to choose what’s best for me. ” Yes, yes, *yes*.
The stories we tell ourselves suit the vision we have of ourselves and what we do or don’t intend to do. The day I stopped acting like a victim that also seemed to be struck by bad luck and a neon sign, is the day I started to be accountable for me. If you can have a hand in your own unhappiness, you can have a greater hand in your happiness.
Natalie you crack me up. Now that post was a good laugh. My church did a survey of the percentage of singles in our area (large city), and it came out to be 51%. And there was a good percentage in every age group from 18 to dead. The way I see it, if there were noone to date, I wouldnt have gotten hooked up with so many eu/ac’s.
“The way I see it, if there were noone to date, I wouldnt have gotten hooked up with so many eu/ac’s.”
So funny!
“The way I see it, if there were noone to date, I wouldnt have gotten hooked up with so many eu/ac’s.” Hilarious and oh so true SM!
SM, your comment was a nice, gentle thump up-side my 52 year- old head. When I had no boundaries, no self-esteem, and no self-worth (although the aforementioned are still pretty wobbly and untested), there were tons of AC/EUM/MM’s to hook up with. A dime a dozen. If I went to the local bar right now, I could probably be in bed with some random dude by 8:30 pm and then spend the next two years trying to have a relationship. It’s different now. Thanks you Natalie, BR, and all of you wonderful ladeies and gents. I’m thinking I have a better perspective with regards to the crystal ball and seeing my way out of trouble. For me, before I can be available to a him, I’ve got to become available for me. Such a great post Natalie and wonderful comments. Thank you for all you do and the amazing community you have created.
Nat,
LOL!! You’re preaching to the choir, girlfriend. Part of working on myself involved changing my relationship “paradigm.” I refuted those negative assumptions about myself and about relationships, and I began to realize that my attitude toward relationships was a product of my lack of self-worth and esteem. When I took action to change how I treated myself, I changed my negative attitude about relationships….and here I am….almost 2 years married (at 46). It’s not a fairy world, it’s not a Julia Roberts movie, but it is real, fulfilling, and positive. I wouldn’t change it for the world. 🙂
Always good to hear from you RES – I can’t believe two years are almost upon us! I know I’ve said this before, but I admire you for staying the course with your self-work and spending a year on you, and allowing the fruits of the love you gave yourself to prosper. I’m so happy for you!
Bless you, Natalie. I am starting to see people around me, mid-late 40’s, who have recently split from long-term marriages and are dating again. One friend actually left a marriage and lives with the woman he was having an affair with (ok, that’s unusual).
People are finding love again, somewhat later in life. My mother who is in her mid-70’s has friends whose spouses have passed; they are dating. I’m with Em Dickinson on this issue:
“Hope is the thing with feathers –
That perches in the soul –
And sings the tune without the words –
And never stops – at all – ”
He’s out there; I know it.
Well said Blueberry! I used to love the myth of Pandora’s Box, after all the evils of the world escaped…only ‘ Hope’ was left.
I hear you Blueberry Girl – my grandfather is pushing 80 and is dating again, and no it’s not with a dramatically younger woman. In fact, I’ve heard from quite a few readers whose mothers have better dating experiences and they’re in their 60s, 70s etc.
I’m a firm believer that when you least expect it someone enters your life. We make our own destiny but sometimes just waiting to see what happens is better than trying to force a relationship. I also think being alone is really ok too. Yes we all want someone in our life to love and to love us back but a what price.
MaryC
Loved what you wrote. I remember learning in my 20’s laying next to my AC then that I would rather be alone and lonely than with him and lonely (among all the other crap he pulled). I was scared, but learned how to be alone with myself and enjoy my own company.
In my single times, I can get lonely, but it is sooo different. I know how to go out to eat by myself, movies, jump in a taxi in Taiwan and visit the country w/o speaking the language, I have swam with dolphins and sea turtles, climbed volcanoes, traveled around the world, opened my own business with no emotional or financial backing from a man, among many other amazing things I have done alone. I have had a wonderful life!!!
Yes I want share my life with a healthy partner, but I want someone who adds to my life, not completes it nor dimishes it!!!
I was thinking about what the difference was between an EUM pseudo-relationship and a real one.
A relationship is what you’re having when you’re NOT having sex. In every other circumstance, you’re chasing or nothing much is going on.
Absolutely MaryC. The only time in my adult life when I’ve felt lonely, is *in* relationships. Now that’s saying something. None of us are that desperate. I’d take my own fricking company any day than a prop to soothe my ego that ends up leaving me feeling like shit.
Thank you, Natalie. Your posts always get to me at the exact moment I need to hear your words.
I especially liked this line: “Nobody who genuinely cares about and loves themselves dedicates their time and energy to forcasting a life without opportunities.”
I’ve been feeling pretty lost and alone lately after my break up in November (I initiated it). Some days are more of a struggle than others, but I have to believe that there is someone out there for me.
Thank you again for writing.
Hi Meave – Be gentle on yourself. It was only November and what you’re experiencing is natural – ups and downs. But you’re totally right – there is someone out there for you. Take care!
I’m afraid of all effort for no result – AGAIN! (How much of ‘this doesn’t work and is very painful’ can one person take!)
I like my comfort zone. It’s risk free / not painful . doesn’t include failure/rejection
I believe love and a relationship is a long shot for me.
Yet I do I believe (erroneously or otherwise) I am capable of a good relationship – I have good relationships with lots of people! But I see now that I have failed to believe I was worth the love of a man that I didn’t need to fight/struggle for. If it wasn’t a struggle, it didn’t feel like love. I didn’t know that is what was going on with me, pre BR.
When I had decent boyfriends in my younger days, I remember sometimes look for reasons to be upset about something so that I could “feel” the struggle to get back to “love”. Like, let’s break up/have a big row so that I can enjoy the feeling of having won your attenion/your affection again. I remember a boyfriend I had in my early twenties broke up with me cos he was sick of all the ‘arguing’ – and he was really crazy about me! I guess with the ex EUM all that came with the package! I was constanly trying to win his love/affection so the crumbs felt really great!
All those years ago I sure did belive love could happen for me – but I had to win it and win it I bloddy well would! I failed. Now, I guess, I just don’t believe that I can win it -‘learned helplessness’ is the psychological term.
It’s about thinking that the amount of effort I would need to put in and the disappointments I would need to feel are not worth the odds of success. A line on the lottery costs one pound. The odds of winning are very small but the cost is not great so I buy a lotto line most weeks. I wouldn’t buy a line if they wanted fifty quid for one – too high a price for too low odds. That’s my reasoning in the idea of ‘looking for love’.
“Do you think that the odds are stacked against you?” Yes!!!
“Do you think you’re an anomaly?” Yes!!!
“Do you think you’re doomed?” In love, yes.
But, Natalie, you’re starting to make me want to give love a chance!
Hi Fearless,
I love your post. One thing stood out for me. You said:
“The amount of effort I would need to put in and the disappointments I would need to feel are not worth the odds of success.”
We need to change our thinking to:
“The amount of effort I would need to put in and the disappointments I would need to feel ARE worth the odds of success.”
We need to change our thinking. The odds are actually quite high of meeting a significant other – nothing like the lottery. We need to get outside out comfort zone and face rejection, loneliness and fear. The reward is definitely worth it!
Dear Fearless –
Like you, I somehow got the mistaken notion in my head that it wasn’t “love” unless I had to fight for it, suffer for it and work my ass off for it. That isn’t love, its abuse and, for women like us, it is self-abuse.
I don’t believe it is too late. We have all found EUM assclowns of late, so there are men out there. Now the trick is believing we deserve good ones and refusing to settle for anything less.
I have followed your struggle for months and wish you nothing but happiness and joy. You have clearly earned it.
Debra,
I don’t really believe it’s too late either. I am full of shit! On my best days I am full of beans and hope and anticipation! On my worst days I am the prophet of doom! (I am trying to deal with negative self talk – I am a work in progress) Where there is life there is hope. This I do believe. Because it is true. Take that away from us and we may as well sit down, do nothing but pick our noses and wait for the fat lady to sing. Thank you for your kind words. My story is a rather dull one, actually, but thanks for following!
Hey Fearless, I hear you but it’s an illusion. Your ex gave you an illusion of a relationship, an illusion of being cared for to an extent and an illusion of safety but you spent most of the time fighting *for* a relationship which means that while you had a relationship in the sense that you were connected by your involvement and had sexual and somewhat limited emotional involvement, the sum of all of it was not an *actual* relationship in the sense of an out in the open, mutual partnership. Even if you look at it from a non mutual perspective, he wouldn’t even stake himself on defining that.
The cost of love isn’t comparable to the lottery but casual sex is.
I get your rationale but it’s like saying you’d rather do the lottery than work at something and earn your way. Relationships do take work although not hard time as if you’re in Assclownville Prison.
I know someone that opened a magazine and got one of those free scratchcards, scratched, and thought she’d won something like a million. She went around buying up stuff on the credit card almost immediately, and then called up to make her claim – she’d won the opportunity to enter another draw… Just like you have to ask who would think they’d won a million from a free scratchcard in a magazine, it’s time to ask who genuinely believes that you can have a relationship without being vulnerable, dealing with conflict, and essentially without work, including even the basic emotional work of being emotionally available? Of course plenty of people do try to get a relationship without being truly available themselves, but they don’t realise that they’re putting themselves in an oxymoron situation – how can you get a relationship and love, when you’re never truly ‘in’? How can you try to win love when you haven’t even won love from yourself? How can you try to win love when you’re trying not to feel all of your feelings and not think all of your thoughts?
I want to cuddle you and then shake you – give *you* a fricking chance! Being with unavailable men is like trying to dig concrete with a plastic shovel. I don’t deny it’s hard work, but it’s frickin unproductive and not ‘work work’.
Nat, Thanks. Really thanks. I appreciate your time in making a personal response, very much. I hear you. I do. I cannot disagree with anything you say or have ever heard you say. I’m listening – or I am trying to listen. I am trying to listen to myself too, to feel my feelings and think my thoughts – but the story and the feelings and the thoughts keep switching and flipping like a never ending coin flipping session. Some days I think I’d just settle for thinking and feeling and hearing the same story in my head for more than two weeks at a time! I go from wanting to cuddle me to wanting to shake me to wanting to sit down and cry to wanting to kick my own arse. I am never sure if I have come to the end of my denial or if I am simply making up stuff that I imagine I may still be denying… from denial to paranoia?! Or still in denial? (but this is off topic and for another time).
I will keep on keeping on…I will get there. I get that I’ve been working way to hard doing the wrong thing! I get that the work I put in in to trying to dig concrete with a plastic spoon was even lower odds than the lottery! I was betting on odds of “never to one”! How bad does it get? pft. So, sure I can put in the right kind of effort… I can. I will, when I am ready and good to go. I kinda know that I will – somewhere in myself, I know it. I am beginning to see that my own beliefs and attitudes about love and relationships have/are/will dictate my experience of them. Thank you so much for your unwavering support.
In middle of work, Fearless, so haven’t been able to read all the gems from other posters, Natalie especially. But one thing that struck me when reading your comment was that you might be being honest about things, but, on the other hand, you possibly don’t even know whether the costs are too great because (a) the lottery you went in with the EUM was always going to be a bum-outcome and (b) you are almost certainly underestimating how resilient and positive you really are; if it didn’t work out, you wouldn’t be pulled back to the wall, like a prisoner in chains, trying to reach for the bars. As you know, I have had one major, major ass-kicking by love, and then a few, smaller slaps. But I really, really feel like I don’t need to make this a sad story to/of myself. I get why it all went down and have accepted the bits I don’t understand as stuff I can’t understand (because I am not all-knowing). I am strong and happy (most of the time), and from that basis I have decided that I do want to be in a relationship. I don’t have to be, I quite like being on my own, but I am choosing it over other ways of living. Having said that, because it is a choice, I can leave it if it’s destructive or misery-making. You are stronger and wiser than you think, Fearless. You should start to act and think on the basis of these facts.
Fearless and Natalie,
Thank you. Of course, I’m tracking precisely what you are both feeling and saying. It does feel like the “feelings and the thoughts keep switching and flipping like a never ending coin flipping session” for me too. There’s a chance of what? There’s no chance as I’m 52 and wasted my good years on AC/EUM/MM’s. There’s a chance to find me? Hello, what’s there a chance of? Then, what are the chances? Then back around again…stop it.
Fearless and Natalie, this comment really struck me: “I get that the work I put in in to trying to dig concrete with a plastic spoon was even lower odds than the lottery! I was betting on odds of “never to one”!” It made me think that I’ve been trying to dig concrete with a plastic spoon with regards to loving me. Have I been betting on odds of ‘never to one’ with regards to me? Does this make sense? Instead of applying the analogies to a him, do the analogies apply to what I’ve been doing with me?
And Fearless, YES: “I am beginning to see that my own beliefs and attitudes about love and relationships have/are/will dictate my experience of them.” YES, YES, YES. Sometimes I have to hear the same thing said 100 different ways 1000 different times. This is Natalie’s self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Thank you for the restatement. My own beliefs and attitudes will dictate my experiences. I need to say it again, my own beliefs and attitudes will dictate my experiences. What are my own beliefs and attitudes? They are important as they will dictate my experiences. Here’s the deal, I’ll kick your arse if you’ll kick mine and then we’ll share a nice bottle of wine and tell tales of how we thought we were too old at 30, too old at 40, and too old at 50! All are invited. What a night that would be as we all share how it is over because we are a certain age. I thought when I turned 30 life had ended. 20-something years later, it so far hasn’t, god bless.
Fearless,
I have been on a similar to yours merry go round having a thinking war with myself, with all thoughts and moods and feelings churning over like crazy. It doesn`t feel a hell of a lot better than digging with that plastic spoon with an AC, because I think that I should have got it by now, instead sometimes I`m just drowning in my thoughts. I also can`t tell, perhaps it`s denial still and fighting it is so hard. Came to conclusion now that it`s time to do. I can`t wait till the thinking it all out is done because it makes me feel stuck, desperate and pessimistic, because I don`t see anything changing. I am really bad about being good to myself but started on all fronts a bit; health, socialising, resting when tired, basic stuff that I neglected when I was with him and after the break up.It feels like pulling teeth, say screwdriver in the concrete 🙂 but to me that`s progress and a very worthwile effort. Still processing but it makes me more positive. Perhaps that would help you too.
Thanks Sushi/Elle/Runner for your comments. I am a tad mixed up…! But I will unravel! You should have seen me a year and a half ago, if you think I’m a bit fuddled now.
Like many on here I thought I was missing the boat at 35/40/45/… each time I reached another milestone birthday I looked back and wondered how the heck I managed to convince myself I was too old ten years previously – i remember being aghast when I turned 25 – pfft! I was a baby!
Whatever age we are, we will *never* be this young again! Ten years from now we will all wonder what our problem was with whatever age we are right now. I thought 30 was old… then I thought 40 was old… now I wish I was 30 or 40 again. When I’m 60 (God willing) I’ll wish I was 50 again, so I may as well enjoy it right now.
So all you girls out there bemoaning that fact that you are now thirty-something – puleeeeaase… you’ve got to be kidding!
I do think… that due to a long history of socially inspired gender stereotyping combined with the advent of feminism, that more women are growing emotionally, as well as financially, socially, etc. then men. We had to change first, to fight for our rights and equality. Men didn’t have to, and I think they still don’t really have to, as long as they can find willing victims. Ok this is a complicated subject so I’ll stop here, but suffice to say that although there may be good men out there, I still believe it’s tough, and not due to our own limiting beliefs.
There have been many times when I’ve been bored out of my mind being with a man because they are so uninterested in progressing their emotional maturity. And they haven’t exactly been encouraged to do that in society. I find most men very selfish – and yeah I know women are not exempt, but still it usually strikes me again as socially expected from a man. I even watch my male friends closely, all of whom are extremely liberal and alternative, and I see the same dynamics. Dynamics that don’t thrill me.
Also spending a lot of time here, which is not a place visited by happy long-term couples, can lead to a pessimistic attitude – I always remind myself of that, because otherwise it’s like “oh these stories, all men are ***holes!” Really are all of us that messed up or is it that the majority of men are really the ones messed up, or are relationships in this day and age jsut so messed in general?
And finally, yes I personally do have all of the issues you mention, but I can see other dynamics at play that to me really don’t make it easy.
Oriana – I am with you on all that you said. I have been guilty of thinking that all men are selfish shits who do not have the capacity to be much else, for whatever reasons. I heard a ‘wise’ aunt of mine say to one of my heartbroken cousins a few years ago ‘all males are selfish; you need to find one that is selfish and quite nice as well’. I kind of got what she meant.
I agree that my belief of men (false belief, perhaps, I agree!) is that they are disinterested in their own emotional maturity – they are self-absorbed, devoid of self-reflection. Do men really love women the way we (want to) love them? They do not appear to. They appear to be very pre-occupied with their own momentary needs/desires and to lack empathy. But I accept that this view/feeling is probably coming from a warped/jaded experience – both personal and vicarious.
There’s an old daying – women live to love, men love to live.
“Love” is more important/crucial to women than it is to men? Men want to be tit- illated? Women want love/affection. Women tend to sell tit-illation in exchange for the (faux) affection? I really am cynical!! Lol. These are ideas/feelings about this that I have had – not theories that I am committed to at all costs!
Fearless… I’m not with you on this one. Too compartmentalized . ‘Love is not more crucial to women than it is to men’
Sometimes I want ‘titillation’, sometimes a male friend’s or my son’s ability to self reflect beats my abilities out of the water… I’ve been on the higher ground in this in the past too, but I step down.
I think if we man the checkpoints and borders so vociferously both sexes lose out?
I agree with you that there are distinct differences between the sexes and that these can shape needs and wants, but these should not stop exploration or crossing the border hopefully?
I love and respect your comments, but on this one, I am cheering that this is not a theory you are commited to on all costs!
We are all alive to live and love. My thoughts on this are, like yours, both personal and vicarious.
Lynda from L
fair do’s. I thought about what i wrote later and did come to a conclusion that it was unfair to say that about half the human population of the planet! – it’s a prejudicial view; is more something that I hope is not true than anything I completely subscribe to. In the reality of life – away from the theorising – I take people as I find them – male or female. And yes, I do know/have known a lot of sensitive and caring men and a lot of women who are total cows! Problem is my choices in men – I actually endow them with good qualities that they do not possess or display! So my behaviour is not aligned with what I have said. It’s not men who are my problem – it’s me!
fearless
I thought about what you said. I know you’ve reassessed your position but I am lucky to have two brothers who love and care for me, and been an absolute rock in my life – through depression, anxiety and financial worries.
If you were to ask me “when have you felt most loved and protected?” it’s when I visited my brother in a foreign country and from the second I landed at the airport to when I got on the plane he was completely there for me, making sure I was entertained, rested and fed. And he’s over 10 years younger than me. I was so pleased that, despite what we’ve been through, he grew up to be such a fine man.
Yes, he’s had EU issues around relationships, but he grew up, is married now and takes good care of his wife.He’s more than happy to talk about emotions and give support. More so than my sister (who probably has enough of that with three daughters!).
My other brother isn’t as open but he’s very sensitive and helps me with stuff around the house (he’s an engineer).
There is something men do which is lovely – they protect. Yes, I recognise women do it too but there’s something about the simplicity and staightforwardness of a good man which is very touching. It’s not the same as being “emotionally talky” but it’s a treasure. And more helpful when your car’s broken down. (As an aside, my last counsellor was a man in his 60s, fairly down to earth, who helped me enormously).
It’s hard to appreciate this when you’ve a history of ACs and EUMs but that’s not the whole picture by any means.
yeah, fairdo’s fearless. I get you.
Fearless: I’m glad you reassessed your position, because I ocassionally entertain thoughts along the same lines, and I’m ashamed of that.
I think the bad news is that there are bad people among both sexes. My guess is that the bad men are somehow more visible (in movies, in politics, as pop stars and so on). Their female counterparts seem to “hide in the shadows” more often, partly because our society/culture allows them to do so. But that doesn’t make cold/evil women any less toxic than cold/evil men.
Have you ever met a guy with a totally negative opinion about women, claiming we were the really evil, cold bitches of the world, we were much worse than men, and we were deceiving the whole world about our true nature? I did meet such guys, and their remarks hurt me tremendously. My guess is many of them had a too close encounter with one or more of the women described above.
It’s sad – but it’s just as sad when we make similar assumptions about all men.
After all, the good news is: There are good people among both sexes, too, and I think they represent the majority, even if my heart is still struggling to believe it.
Oriana, I’m not even going to suggest that what you say isn’t true of some men or our history, but I could just take your comment and dump it into the post I wrote as a rather detailed excuse which has you and essentially all women pegged as being high emotional IQ in a world full of emotionally stunted men.
What if I say “OK Oriana, everybody’s beliefs are true and none of them are limiting”, what happens next? What would you do? Nothing?
You can’t speak for everyone else – you can only speak for you or people similar to you who either don’t believe they have limiting beliefs or do believe that they have problems but that they’re not an issue in the grander scheme of things, because essentially it’s like having problems in a doomed world. This is like saying “I don’t have limiting beliefs and I don’t believe there are good men out there, otherwise I wouldn’t have said ‘may’. The minority of men are unselfish so women are victims to selfish men and we’re being held hostage by their emotional immaturity. Even if I didn’t have these issues and even if other women didn’t have negative or unrealistic beliefs, it doesn’t make a difference anyway, because all men are selfish assholes who are emotionally immature. This means it’s not women that need to change, it’s men and that’s not going to happen, so we’re all fucked.”
Um, well I didn’t think I was going to that extreme. I was saying that I do have limiting beliefs, but at the same time I do recognize social issues exist and to me this adds an extra element of difficulty in finding someone. Finding someone really great, for me, that is.
That is all I said.
To quote myself: “And finally, yes I personally do have all of the issues you mention, but I can see other dynamics at play that TO ME really don’t make it easy.” I wasn’t implying that “(people) either don’t believe they have limiting beliefs or do believe that they have problems but that they’re not an issue in the grander scheme of things”. My problems are an issue, all I was saying is, once again, I think it’s a little more difficult to find a man who emotionally mature and empathetic and not so self-oriented. It’s this that I was talking about when I said “although there may be good men out there, I still believe it’s tough, and not due to our own limiting beliefs.” I do believe it’s a bit tough and that part is separate from limiting beliefs.
I certainly did not imply that “I don’t have limiting beliefs and I don’t believe there are good men out there”.
I said that I find men selfish. I said that I get bored by lack of emotional maturity. I, I, I, not anyone else. I also recognize that socially these qualities can be supported by society, and when that happens, a lot of men aren’t inspired to change.
And I also made mention of the fact that I keep the blog in perspective by not thinking that all men are a**holes just because the blog has a particular theme.
This will be my last response. Sorry I can’t back up your posts 100% every time without an ounce of a differing perspective and having my words twisted into something extreme. I love your blog, it’s been one of the best therapeutic sources around, you do an amazing job, but I’ll keep my opinions to myself from now on. Thank you.
Ok…Oriana. What I wrote is what you said flipped around. Read your comment again. You are entitled to your opinion and I even said I agreed with an aspect of it, but my response has nothing to do with expecting people to jump to my beat. That implies that this is some sort of back patting parade of sycophants. It’s a foregone conclusion that I wasn’t going to entirely agree with your comment.
You want to disagree and not have people disagree or challenge? It’s unrealistic to expect to say things, not to be challenged, and then if you are, state that you won’t be saying anything else. That would be like me reading your comment and announcing that I’m never responding to a comment again. No doubt me saying this only offends further – I hope that this is not how you deal with conflict in the real world. I also hope you continue to comment but if you don’t, I respect that too.
“This means it’s not women that need to change, it’s men and that’s not going to happen, so we’re all fucked.”
Hee-Hee! Great comment all round, Nat. Yep, I am agreeing – told you I am a flip-flapper!
I thought similar last night after I posted a load of bull and went off to think more about all of this – that what we believe in (respect of the topic) is what WILL be true – for us.
Here’s the imagined scenario: (If) I think all men are shits and I will always be single cos all men are shits….
…dum-de-dum…
Twenty-five years later:
…See – I’m still alone and had a series of assclown crappy boyfriends cos, what did I tell you? I said all men are shits – and I am proved right!
Only thing we will be right about is what we believe. We will each prove what we believe, so we are all going to be right in the end! Yay!
Oriana, Your post created a reaction in me and I had to sit back for a while and think about the nature of that reaction. Okay, I feel cheated by your response and here is why…
You ‘cherry pick’ historical perspectives related to feminism, gender-stereo-typing to bolster an argument. I do not disagree with the fact that we had fight for rights, engage in change.. but by cherry picking, you in fact ape the manners and ways of the men you describe by choosing a closed and narrow focus.
Many Human Beings are selfish, men and women. This is because of immense societal pressures and norms, modelling based on movie and popstar idols, cyberporn,a world recession….we could go on and on.
There is still great good out there. Everyday triumphs of kindness and consideration, small and large challenges overcome. Recovery and hope of recovery.
It happens every single day on this site. Mountains are moved by inches, for sure and it is great to see.
This may not be a site visited by happy long term couples, why would it be? It is not however a site steeped in pessimism, have you paid attention to the turnarounds and the courage which often prevails.
This site has freed me from my pessimistic attitude, I speak for myself alone, for sure, but am thankful for it.
Thank you Lynda – what a thoroughly moving response.
I think BR is very optimistic and empowering and hopeful and I send women and men to it all the time. And I KNOW, I KNOW, that I am closer than I have ever been to being ready for a healthy relationship. Sometimes our “glasses” of perception need cleaning, speaking from personal experience, and no matter what we read, hear, experience, see, feel, wish for, etc. , no matter how many times, until we are READY, we won’t get it.
Thanks Lo J. It’s good to be reminded. Today for few minutes I was asking myself if BR was doom and gloom then I gave myself a proverbial puck in the head.
Natalie, GEEX…read the New Year love posts to YOU from so many of us whenever you feel down…okay?
Haha Leisha – it was only for a few minutes but you’re so very right.
BR has brought new hope into my life. Hope in/for *me* that I didn’t even know was missing. Now I can do something about it getting it back. And I know I can cos I read here all the time about people *doing* it! It’s embarking on the journey that is the success story! So everyone here is, at the very least, in the process of succeeding. How many people out there are still blissful in their misery, uncomfortable in their comfort zone, paying again for their tickets on the crazy train for one more round? – these people aren’t posting here, so you don’t hear from them. YET!
@NML: Sorry, because I left quite a gloomy comment here too, which apparently didn’t get approved, and that’s probably a good thing. I basically voiced my belief that everyone in the world is bad, evil and going to disrespect me no matter what.
Which is quite obviously not true. But that insight brought me immediately back to my childhood (again) and to the realization how many bad things my narcissistic mother did to me.
I’m quite sure she slandered me with anybody she talked to, with the result that many people treated me like a very bad bad, retarded (yes, she actually claimed I was retarded), mother-abusing child.
I never understood why so many people (family members, neighbours and even some teachers) acted like that, and of course, it contributed to my distrust of basically the whole world. I remember when I was a teenager and complained about momster to other adults, they often said: “Well, but do you have a clue how much SHE is suffering at your hands? You should take a closer look at yourself! I hope you will grow up and see the light someday and understand how bad YOU really are!”
After hearing that, I always felt even more sick than before. I had no clue what they meant. I really really didn’t understand what was so horribly wrong with me!
I guess that made me believe all guys would be like that too. I believed narcissists (and enablers) were the norm and I was basically mentally ill, an “alien”, because I wasn’t like them and couldn’t understand them. Whenever I imagine dating someone, I imagine him acting like a narcissist.
And before I forget it: Oh yes, Natalie, I’m VERY grateful for what you’re doing. You’ve been helping me so much not to doubt my own sanity anymore, and I’m sure you’ve done the same for many other readers as well.
Hi EllyB – your comment wasn’t approved, as there were two and they were confusing, partially off topic, and certainly guaranteed to go further off topic. As long as your comment meets guidelines, as proven, you can be as negative as you want.
Hey Natalie, I sincerely hope you didn’t spend more than a nano-second asking yourself if BR was doom and gloom, otherwise this blog will crash with thoughts to the contrary. You have over thousands of readers who comment every single day how your insights, dedication, and support have turned their lives around. Please count me as one of the thousands. I’m not sure what folks qualify as a “success story” but thanks to you and BR, I’m no longer a lying, cheating OW involved in decieving myself, my daughter, friends, and family as well as betraying his wife and family. That’s a giant success for me, thanks to Nat and BR. I’ll no longer be a fall back girl, booty call, emotional airbag, or doormat for any tall, dark, handsome, successful male that shoots a look my way. I’d say that’s also a success for me, thanks to Nat and BR. Okay, so I’m 52 and not bedded down with a male. Is that failure? In my opinion, success is a relative term. At the moment, I’m not defining success as being bedded down with a male. Presently, I’m defining success as being rid of AC/EUM/MM’s and starting a regime of self-care, self focus, and self-love. I would have never been to this point without Natalie and BR. Do I have to be with a male in order to write-in that I’m a success? Lynda from L: ” Mountains are moved by inches, for sure and it is great to see”. In the US, there is the Grand Canyon, cut slowly, ever so slowly by the Colorado River and by slow uplift by the continental plates. It is an amazing place. BR is an amazing place. In one short year, compared to the millions of years in forming the Grand Canyon, I’m a different person, a little mini Grand Canyon. There’s no doom and gloom here. Just reality. Thank you Natalie for giving us a safe harbor to share, grow, vent, be angry, be grateful, be angry again and be grateful again. Don’t do what you tell us not to do. Gentle puck.
“This may not be a site visited by happy long term couples, why would it be? It is not however a site steeped in pessimism, have you paid attention to the turnarounds and the courage which often prevails.”
OMG that is NOT what I was saying! I’m not even going to explain myself again. It had absolutely nothing to do with BR being pessimistic.
Ok I’m going to take a deep breath here and try explain myself one more time, and also explain why I’m upset. If it gets posted, fine but this doesn’t have to be dragged out any more. I just feel very misunderstood…
I’m entitled to my opinion, of course, and everyone is entitled to agree or disagree. I have my world view and my belief system. What I see, my perspective, includes certain character traits that are often socially condoned.
I also talk to men about stuff like this and they agree with me. They agree they’re on the selfish side, they agree they don’t want to look at their emotional state. OK so maybe I just attract these type of men (not all lovers, many friends and acquaintances as well) because of my “limiting belief”, I can’t say for sure.
If Natalie was going to respond to what I said, I expected something along the lines of “yeah maybe it’s true on some level for some men but not every one is like that and it’s still too much a part of your belief system so stop focusing on it cause you’ll just keep finding it…” End of story.
I don’t recall ever saying that I don’t have issues. I have plenty issues. I’m a single 52 yr. old woman with a young spirit, a traumatic and abusive childhood, who is afraid of intimacy and has low self-worth. I also fall prey to the I’m too old, too much baggage, single men my age want younger women, etc. etc. beliefs.
I did not say: “everybody’s beliefs are true and none of them are limiting”
I did not say that I was “speaking for everyone else”
I did not say that I “either don’t believe (myself and others like me) have limiting beliefs or do believe that they have problems but that they’re not an issue in the grander scheme of things”
Now this statement from me:
“Also spending a lot of time here, which is not a place visited by happy long-term couples, can lead to a pessimistic attitude – I always remind myself of that, because otherwise it’s like “oh these stories, all men are ***holes!”
read carefully: “oh these STORIES, ALL MEN ARE A**HOLES”. I’m only using caps because I can’t bold but need to highlight
and this statement again from me:
And I also made mention of the fact that I keep the blog in perspective by not thinking THAT ALL MEN ARE A**HOLES just because the blog has a particular theme.
and this statement from me:
I love your blog, it’s been one of the best…
it’s been one of the best therapeutic sources around, you do an amazing job…”
do not add up to:
“This may not be a site visited by happy long term couples, why would it be? It is not however a site steeped in pessimism, have you paid attention to the turnarounds and the courage which often prevails.”
or this:
“Today for few minutes I was asking myself if BR was doom and gloom”
I was talking about the stories that lead people here in the first place, the AC’s, the UE’s, the cheating MM’s. I wasn’t talking about BR in general, I wasn’t talking about the people who come here personally, I wasn’t ignoring all the good (great) things there, I wasn’t ignoring all the positive growth – I have a great deal of praise for BR, I recommend it to all of my friends in need and read everything here. I was only talking about the bad experiences that many of us have had, and even though we are responsible for the unfortunate alliances as well. The stories, I was only talking about some of the stories, which break my heart and could, if I was so inclined at the moment, cause me to think that all men are a**holes. Sorry but I do feel quite hurt that my statement was so negatively misconstrued.
Thanks for letting me speak.
Oriana, I’m glad you took a deep breath to clarify yourself.
What you intended to convey and what you conveyed are two very different things. Each person is responsible and accountable for what they say. If it’s misconstrued, instead of taking the high road and implying that everyone has it wrong and saying that you’re hurt, it would serve you better to redeliver your message clearer with your intentions – language, tone, and what you write is pivotal.
It makes sense that everybody you talk to agrees with you – I by and large spend my time around people who have similar values.
That said, if I go out today and ask around to see who hates people of a certain race, or thinks that cheating is OK, or is sexist, or ageist, don’t like people on social welfare, I’ll find people to support that thinking – the internet is also like that. If I wrote a site saying that I hate men, or people of a certain race, or talked about baby products, which incidentally I have a site that does the latter, there is an audience of people out there who will share my outlook.
Also, if you were in a professional environment and misunderstood, you wouldn’t say that you were ‘hurt’ – you might say that you were disappointed, pissed off, frustrated and you’d certainly clarify. You can see more on the use of the word ‘hurt’ here https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/compassion-empathy-sympathy-hurt-hinting-and-kindness-6-of-the-most-misused-words-in-relationships-and-the-importance-of-learning-their-meanings/
I don’t deny that you threw in some positives, but as it’s my job to observe people, relationships, and habits, I have seen time and again, that when people say “You know I love you…but” or “I love your site…but” or “I like you…but” or deliver a message weighted in negativity, disagreement and then put some ‘sprinkles’ of positivity, it’s because if challenged about what is said, they go “But I said…” This isn’t because people are focused on the negativity – it’s because really, whatever positive you added didn’t make a difference to your opinion and you can’t really shut down your opinion being challenged on the basis of your positivity sprinkles.
If I talked to you for 30 minutes and for 29 of them, I was really negative and for the other minute I was positive, would it *really* be legitimate for me to call it a positive conversation?
A very close friend of mine once reported a conversation she heard between colleagues to her manager. They were reprimanded *and* knowing that it was her, they obviously kept their distance and felt somewhat betrayed. She was terribly upset – it wasn’t her intention for all of this to happen. But we had to ask what she expected to achieve and remind her that you can’t shoot off your mouth and then attempt to control everyone’s opinions or the reaction. If she wanted a different reaction, she should have gone down a different route.
I’d say the same to you Oriana.
Oriana,
I read over your post, my post, Nat’s and others and still think I didn’t misconstrue your overall meaning. Have read your explanation too.
I disagreed with your opinion and the tone of your opinion, that’s all.
This happens, as you know everyday on BR. I’m sure people sometimes disagree with mine. It’s a slice of life.
I think what is rubbing me the wrong way, I’ll be specific, is the fact that you say things like’ Ok I’m going to take a deep breath here and attempt to clarify…’
This gets to me, it suggests to me the site is out to thwart you, frustrate you, comments are thick or something. My opinion.
You said in response to my comment ‘OMG,that is not what I am saying! I am not going to explain myself again’
With respect, I get that you are annoyed, but I disagree with you, big time. Why is that not ok for both of us?
Oriana, you also say ‘I expected Natalie to…’, (when you suggested what you thought her response ought to be?), I have a reaction to that too, I think how does Oriana think she can determine someone else’s responses in order to make herself feel good/ok. You cant.
In short, you put forward an interesting slant, on topic which I don’t agree with. I do hope you stay on site. It’s great.
Dear Oriana,
You have been very clear from the beginning – making a clear statement, which opposes exactly what it has been taken for.
Misinterpretation is something lying around the corner when even being the slightest bit of critical – the BR environment, while at the same time being nurturing as well as a place to vent and leave a lot of frustration, is highly focussed on the individual development of its contributors, and much less welcoming any analysis that would distract from any individual story. I agree with your remarks, and you should not be defending them where they have clearly been misread and misinterpreted. It is typical that a lot of readers, after Natalie has been lashing out, start defending BR – where you have never implied anything that is now attributed to you.
You are right being hurt because of these reactions – I once felt exactly the same, because of a similar incident – being very misinterpreted, followed by a rash of reactions stating how wonderful Natalie and BR were. I am very curious whether this reaction will make it to the blog.
Peter, your previous comments that you’re referring to weren’t approved because they broke a fundamental guideline – it was epic and spread out incoherently over 4-5 comments. No other reason. If several months down the road you are still lurking in the shadows waiting for a moment to strike and pitch an alliance, it may be time to find a better use of your time and a site where you like and respect it – this place sure ain’t it!
Maybe you are stuck in your comfort zone. All your male friends are extremely liberal and alternative? I’m not sure what that means but it sounds like a pretty narrow slice of the male population.
As a man, I have never felt society encourages me to be emotionally retarded. Being a man isn’t about victimizing women, being selfish clods. I try to be a better man every day, and I’m sorry you don’t know any better men.
Runner,
Thanks, I will see that Grand Canyon, believe me.
Well I still feel misunderstood, but I’m certainly not blaming anyone. I think, of course, that Nat said it best:
“What you intended to convey and what you conveyed are two very different things. Each person is responsible and accountable for what they say. If it’s misconstrued, instead of taking the high road and implying that everyone has it wrong and saying that you’re hurt, it would serve you better to redeliver your message clearer with your intentions – language, tone, and what you write is pivotal.”
Obviously what I’m thinking is not coming across in the way that I think it is. Perhaps I’m not quite so adept at expressing myself. I do tend to sum things up in one or two sentences, which may not come across as intended. I haven’t read the post re being “hurt”, but I was feeling very put off since I have absolutely no negative or pessimistic attitudes towards BR. I’m actually very grateful, maybe more than you realize. I did feel accused of saying BR as a whole is pessismistic which certainly was not my intention. That’s just one part of it. Mercury square mercury, whatever. I’ll leave it at that. Peace.
Oriana,
Communication without mind to mind abilities is difficult but since it’s all we have, we have to keep on plugging away at it. Obviously you meant no ill as you do keep on trying. It’s okay. We’re all good I think. As long as we’re living we’ll have some misunderstandings. We never have to agree, all we have to do is give respect and try to create little harm (at least that’s what I try to go by). We grow and it’s a struggle to do so at times but it’s worth it. All emotions are expressed here and all subjects appear to arise…we just have to keep in mind that we may be misconstrued by the ‘net as well as in our personal lives with those who are “supposed” to know us best. Until I’m able to do the Spock mind meld or have Laran (Darkover series) [I’m smiling as I write this; a bit tongue in cheeck and twisted humor]I’ll just have to suffice with the sences and mind…I felt your pain when you were trying to come clear with your thoughts and I couldn’t find the right words to respond with. I tried a bit of philosophy and other words that I thought might help but gave it up. Your post today made me reach out and want to give you big hugs.We all know so well what it is like to be misunderstood. May all be okay now.Peace to you as well.
Oriana,I didn’t misunderstand you.And I pretty much agree with your original comment.Male selfishness and emotional immaturity is a throw back to recent patriarchal societies and to an extent,is still indulged and encouraged.Which can make it more difficult for us.I’m the same age as you and I think it’s much worse in men of our age group.
But,that is not to offend or insult anyone as there are selfish and emotionally immature people in both sexes and indeed of all ages.Just as there are great people too.It was also great to hear about the many decent men like Grace’s brothers.Unfortunately, I personally,have experienced little of the good ones and it’s probably the same with Oriana.We tend to be coloured by our experiences which influence and limit our beliefs.This post has helped to open our eyes to the fact that there are great men out there and we mustn’t give up the search.
Hugs to you,Oriana.You’re doing your best,like all of us.
Thanks Oriana for coming back on site. Peace absolutely.
Oriana, thanks for continuing to comment. I think you’ve made your intentions and message more than clear. Misunderstandings are inevitable in life, especially with the written word and strangers. Take care.
Everyone
I’m late to this party but wanted to think about what’s being said before commenting.
This IS a site for individual growth. A part of that is to say “yes, society may say x, y, z but that doesn’t dictate my life”. Societies have thought/done lots of things that are unacceptable/evil.
There are lots ofgeneralisations about men, women or martians out there – “men are bastuds”, “women are hormonal controlling gold-diggers only interested in status” “men age better than women” “marriage is outmoded”, “monogamy is unnatural”, “men want to spread their seed” ,”you’ve more chance of dying in a terrorist attack than getting married at your age”. We don’t (or try not to) believe that here. Not only that, we are ANTI those beliefs because that’s how we got into a pickle – we didn’t believe in ourselves and let others dictate the terms. When we disagree, with such comments, it’s not because we are supporting Nat, we’re supporting OURSELVES. To complain about that is a bit like going on a knitting website and saying it’s too focused on knitting.
Ladies, most of us are fortunate to live in a Western society where we can get an education, vote, marry or not marry, have kids or not, drive a car, get a job. It’s a bit much to complain we don’t have choices. Yes we can be at a disadvantage but it’s only us who can overcome it.
The site IS wonderful and so is Nat. Yes, she’s fiery. It’s what we need. We’re so mired in our bad habits and negativity we need a rocket launcher to get us out of it.
Oh yes, the topic – If you’re 50, divorced, with grown up kids and want a loving relationship – go do it. Sod what society says.
“As a man thinks, so he is”. Proverbs.
Hi Oriana, I wanted to add a note and then I’m all done.
In the quest to continue being authentic and to listen to myself, I listen to the feedback from life.
I’m an extremely fortunate person to be surrounded by a vibrant community of heartwarming, expressive, supportive people from all walks of life and that in spite of how many people read this site each month (over 400k), the comments and atmosphere are self-regulating and very positive and collaborative.
I make a point of responding to comments of a certain tone which I recognise now is an error. The issue arises when I assume that these comments can take being responded to with the same level of forthrightness in which they’re written.
Experience has taught me that this actually *isn’t* the case.
I don’t do bullshit – I strive not to be insensitive and in particular be compassionate with personal problems but I think particularly when someone doesn’t agree with the topic or just wants to have a vent and a moan, that honesty and sometimes dissection of a situation or what is written, will get on their tits. Then someone else responds and it’ll sound like it’s an issue for someone to disagree or sound off when really it’s not as long as it’s done respectfully and within guidelines. Then the person gets defensive and round and round.
Sometimes we’ve just got to let it be.
I realised this weekend that actually, it isn’t important or *necessary* for me to weigh in on comments like this. Yours was a statement of how you felt – they’re your feelings and valid for your life.
I’m heeding a message that there are better uses for my energies.
I take as much value from a comment of your nature as I do others. That said, I don’t want you or anyone who disagrees with a post to fear voicing that nor to feel ganged upon by responses. I’m also not about to change me or the site.
On the flipside, for anyone who chooses to oppose, vent etc, it’s important to recognise that it’s like being in a room full of people having a discussion and then standing on a chair and shouting. It’s a jolt.
These situations put me in between a rock and a hard place – don’t respond and that’s taken the wrong way or others step in, or do respond and it’s then a case of ‘You don’t like being disagreed with’ or people analysing reactions. All of this distracts and detracts from the tone and productive use of energies.
I am but one person, I cannot please everyone and nor do I want to, and part of me being able to continue to do what I love is listening to my own boundaries
and not ‘taking on’ too much. I don’t need to get my point across, to have the last word, or to convince.
As Grace has brilliantly pointed out, it’s not about me – it’s about the ethos and a community that shares this, which includes at times disagreeing.
I don’t think and didn’t think that you don’t like the site. I won’t lie and say it wasn’t a pessimistic comment but it would only be one in a long line. It comes with the territory. People come on this journey from different angles and are at different stages.
I am sorry that you feel hurt. You are very welcome here.
I know for 100% fact that you wrote this for– Meeeee!! LoL!! thank you SO much for this. I would add, that in the 40’s we fixate on being found eaten by our many cats. You are correct, as usual. of course I aready have 25 things to say in response, all denying that I see myself as the poor cow in that picture (aww!), that all my pessimism is purely based on the evidence of the Assclowns on Parade my whole life etc. I suspect I’ve failed to conquer the horrible negative feelings I still have around my attractiveness, therefore desireability to men. many years of relentess merciless teasing about your body, and body/facial hair can do that to a young girl. I thought I got over all that in my 20s. But did I? there’s so much horrible negative messaging out there, one must battle on a daily basis to shut it out if you don’t fall into the standard categories. I’ve had so called friends and even my own MOTHER say absolutely crushing, horrifying things to me about what they think of my body. and men too. I once went on a date with an online guy who knew exactly what I looked like beforehand. after being romantic all day, at dinner he said “I think you’re gogeous, but I could NEVER ever see myself involved with someone that looks like you long-term”. Yes. that really happened. in my late 30’s. the guy was in his 40’s. So, yah, perhaps when someone finally comes along that seems to *really* love you, inside & out, and that’s only happened maybe once or twice… it can mess with you head a lot, no matter how much work you’ve done in the realm of self love & acceptance. BUT– the important thing being discussed here, what ELSE do I need to do that I haven’t done yet to overcome all this? I don’t know. Tried everything. just keep coming here, until I work this shit out of my DNA once and for all?
anoosh,
I hope you check back. I highly highly recommend you sign up for this. I did it several years ago. There’s one spot left, and it has your name on it. I would not steer you wrong : )
(I was also at Nat’s meet and greet in July)
hey ixnay, not sure which one of the cool ladies you are, but thanks so much for the suggestion 🙂 glad you found something that you connect to and helps your growth. I don’t have the doughnut$ at the moment. but also, I have an intense allergy to most any of these sorts of group seminar type things. and especially to a lot of the lingo, just can’t get with that stuff. in fact, come to think of it, that a*hole that took me out to dinner was one of those “Landmark Forum” people! that should have been the first red flag, he actually was far advanced into it, and was a big group leader! I would love to have heard how he justified his behavior through the prism of his “belief system”, which I’m certain he did… oh dear, don’t mean to get started on all that. whatever works for people, ya know? that’s why I wish Natalie had her own international daily TV show — imagine that! very quickly, you’d be seeing A**Clowns kicked to curb from sea to shining sea 🙂 anyway, thanks again, & cheers
I hear you on the landmark stuff — someone tricked me into going to see her “graduate” and i got the hard sell. Actually ran away. Like physically ran out of the hotel like an action movie.
I have an aversion to seminars etc as well. Thing I linked is very different; completely on Nat’s wavelength, wouldn’t have otherwise.
Hey Anoosh – you did make me giggle with the first line! Life is a funny old thing. For everything that you’re saying, there are people out there who don’t fit the mould of conventional beauty who have found love. I’ve read or watched things about disfigured people who talk about people reacting badly in the street to them or staring, and yet, they’re loved. That says to me that in a world where it can appear where ‘everyone’ is fixated on image, ultimately, what type of experiences you have are weighted heavily by how you feel about you inside. Some people still feel like the them that has been hurt the most. This is why the very slim and heavily taken care of person is still an overweight person on the inside, or the person who has spent shedloads on plastic surgery is still unhappy with their life, or the person with lots of money and ‘everything’ they could desire, still feels poor and even acts poor in their interactions and/or outlook. An acquaintance of mine still relates to people as if she is at school and afraid of standing up to bullies, even though she is incredibly successful and beautiful.
I think it was Madonna that said something about how 99 people could say positive things to you, but you remember the one who doesn’t. Many of us remember the cruel things that people have said and if we have not grown ourselves up and done some work to heal and adjust our perspectives from these experiences, it’s like giving yourself lashings for the rest of your days. These things that have been said to you are cruel words from people who are ugly in their behaviour. Like the guy on the date – who the eff speaks to people like that? It’s not even normal!
Do you still believe these people? What do you believe because ultimately, if you rely on others to determine how you look and your opinions, you will never be happy. Part of it is about being able to look you in the eye in the mirror and embrace you, naked or dressed. I can look at myself in the mirror and say ‘I love you’ and mean it – I never used to be able to meet myself in the eye.
And, hard as it may be to hear, it would be best to try ‘everything’ when you’re not focusing your energy on an ex and the sting of rejection – it gives you cloudy results.
hi Natalie, glad I could provide a chuckle 😀 btw, the cow picture, one of the funniest ones ever (and yes, I am a *total* animal lover). Last stop singletons, everybody off, it’s Last Chance Saloon– Moooo… LoL! anyway, yes indeed, life is funny. I totally agree, love can come to us in all kids of packaging, and real love is about what’s on the inside — and people *are* beautiful in all shapes & sizes & patterns. I’ve always believed that, despite the messaging from peers and media.
Do I believe the BS that I’ve been subjected to? No. I think I’m a perfectly fine, attractive woman, plenty have even told me I’m beautiful, including my serious loves. that’s the funny thing, too — it’s never been very important to me, I am not vain or a “girly-girl” at all! so much has been written on the topic of women & their bodies & self-esteem, from every possible angle, won’t go into it now. I truly did believe that I long ago worked through all the negative self-images (possibly Body Dysmorphia?), that plagues so MANY girls and young women. I’m questioning it, bc I think I’m just trying to make sense of how I, *fabulous MOI*, could have gotten here, to 46, with so many years spent in heartache and tears. and, never having found just one special person who wanted to take a chance on going down the path of life with me, when there are a number I loved so very much, and would have been happy to try with. I was sailing along for many years, not letting myself get too down about it. it’s just this last EU/AC experience has thrown me for the biggest mindf*ery loop ever, and I *so* don’t want to be here, in Heartbreak Hotel, anymore. I wish it never happened, I’d already had enough “loved & lost” to last several lifetimes. where is that Jeanie’s bottle?? really would erase it all if I could have my wishes granted.
when I say I’ve tried everything, I mean in terms of addressing why breakups and rejection are always so traumatic for me, that work has been going on over the course of a few decades. that’s why I know that you’re on to something just about revolutionary in your books, blog, etc. and I’m sure most everyone here would agree.
Ugh, not a good day for ne and this post speaks VOLUMES right now! For myself, I no longer think my ex EUM was my last chance saloon (I did in the relationship, reason I stuck around unhappily for years!). That’s no longer attitude, thank God. However, I’m finding dating near impossible but this has made me realize it’s not because it’s not out there, it’s because I’m afraid of failing and rejection. I haven’t even tried, and it’s been well over a year since my break up! And I see guys check me out (a couple I’m even quite curious about) but I can barely bring myself to look in their direction or even smile because my fear takes over, just that I’m going to FAIL. It’s incredibly frustrating and disheartening, I’m really hard on myself about it…I feel pathetic! I’m in my 30’s. I really need to stop putting so much pressure on myself and “failing” and just let go, and enjoy life and know I’m worthy and anyone would be lucky to be with me!
Tyla, I can relate. I think it’s important to keep in mind that rejection/a relationship working out doesn’t equal failure. Those of us who’ve been in jacked up relationships have a tendency to make everything about us, i.e. “He wouldn’t commit, which is all about me specifically and I failed.” or “He wouldn’t have acted like such an assclown if I was better. Therefor, I have failed.” Not so! I am so glad to hear that you recognize how fantastic you are – any of these gentleman would indeed be very lucky to have you.
Sometimes, we still hold onto a lot of fear, even when we’ve already made serious progress. Personally, I find it really helpful to think through turning fear on it’s sorry ear. Whenever I think “Ohhhhhh I can never date again. Too scary.” I think, “Well, what if I went out with someone decent for a few months and he broke it off with me? Am I going to spontaneously combust? No. Might I be a little sad and disappointed? Yup, but it won’t be anything like the demoralizing experience of being ‘rejected’ by a douchebag.” Nat wrote an excellent article about putting rejection/fear of it in perspective, here it is in case you haven’t seen it yet:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-avoiding-rejection-actually-opens-you-up-to-more-why-its-not-always-rejection/
Hi Tyla, you as you already know, are being very hard on yourself. The reality is this – unless you want to saddle yourself to the first person you meet, it is part of dating to meet people. If you’re ‘failing’, they’re ‘failing’ because everyone has to date various people to discover someone for a relationship. It’s not ‘failure’ – it’s dating. Not every person can be the one. If you think there are people out there that have the skills to identify ‘the one’ before they even date and who manage to avoid all risk and ‘mistakes’, please show me them – they don’t exist. Deal with how you feel about you *first* and then date. Fear means it’s not happening yet, so you’re concerning yourself about something you’re not even doing. You also need to show up as an equal – you are not auditioning. You have to choose one another and you also have to be prepared to say NO yourself.
Natalie, thank you. This article is perfect timing and sums up a lot of what I’ve been struggling with of late.
I’ve been dealing with quite a bit of rejection. The guy I had been dating for two months called it off because his work was getting too busy and he did not have the time to invest in a relationship. All I could think was, “I’m not good enough. Not interesting enough. Not attractive enough.”
Then another guy I recently met at a wedding asked me out. We’ve been on two dates, but so far I’m really confused as to whether he is interested. Cooked me dinner on the last date, but no end of date kiss, and no real communication since then. I, of course, immediately jump to the conclusion, “I’m not good enough. Not interesting enough. Not attractive enough.”
I’ve also put myself on an online dating site. There hasn’t been anyone that has really stood out for me, and the few guys I’ve contacted have not been interested. So I start to get the same, familiar feeling. “I’m not good enough” even though I’ve been contacted by over 200 guys.
Not only does rejection make me start to feel I’m not good enough, but I start to think that I’m running out of time and that I’m never going to be in a happy, mutual, fulfilled relationship. Thus, I then approach every potential relationship as my one, last shot at happiness. Or that a loving relationship is something that happens to others, not me.
I’m slowly starting to change my thinking. Yesterday, I came across a website by Dr Tom G. Stevens who talked about loneliness and rejection (especially when dating). A couple of things he said stood out for me:
* It’s OK that most people that you meet and date are not going to be the right person for us. Thus, if someone rejects us, it’s not because we are not good enough, but because we are a mismatch.
* But there are many people out there that ARE right for us.
*If your partner is “right” for you, he/she will like you as you really are.
I was also told by someone very wise that it is better to spend the time finding the right person, than wasting years with someone who you know is wrong for you.
You’ve been contacted by over 200 guys? How has it become you being rejected? Surely not all 200 were interesting to you?
A word of caution LA – I wouldn’t use dating sites until you’re in a good place emotionally with hide of rhino in place. You are not going to go on a site, especially a free one, and be shacked up in a day. We are being trained to expect instant results – instant attention not instant relationship is more like it. If you are rejection sensitive nd don’t think you’re good enough, sort you out first.
I absolutely agree, 100%. If you choose to believe a healthy love relationship is not possible for you, you are right. If you choose to believe that a heathy love relationship IS possible for you, you are also right. It all depends on what you choose to believe. And although I was ashamed of the choices I’ve made in the past (therapy, BR, and time have been major eye openers), I have chosen to rewrite my negative beliefs. I just didn’t know better and now I do. I choose to believe I deserve better, no matter how long it takes!
” If you choose to believe a healthy love relationship is not possible for you, you are right. If you choose to believe that a heathy love relationship IS possible for you, you are also right.” Excellent Jasmine.
While I will admit that sometimes I would fall prey to this deadly line of thinking, all in all I always kind of think that maybe something better will happen eventually. But I had a coworker who was on-line dating at the same time I was and the “advice” she used to give me was bizarre: Play hard to get, guys like the chase, be unavailable, make them pay for everything. Her reasoning: all the men wanted much younger women (I’m in my 40’s, she’s in her 50’s), or any of the other excuses in this post. She’s perpetually unsatisfied with the men she meets on line, and when she does meet someone, he lives 60 miles away or something or can only see her once a month. Then she says she’s “with someone”.
I did stay with the last AC for a year and a half, because some of this stupid thinking was still with me. I thought it was better to have someone and work, work, work on it, rather than just get out and face that I might spend some time alone. I did get out. It IS better to be alone than to be with a man who constantly found fault with me, and let me know it to “help” me, who told me about other women he wanted to sleep with…while we were in bed, who promised me a future, but when I called him on it acted like he never said anything of the sort. I can’t believe I stayed as long as I did.
But to say all my chances are used up is ridiculous. You never know where life will take you.
I can’t imagine being SO concerned over having a relationship that statements (which obviously come from some sort of inner-lack-feeling) would leave my mouth! I was with the AC/babydaddy from age 21 to 31 and it’s been six years since and my only “relationship” was a fling with a narc. eu AC. And that’s fine, I mean, it was interesting at least. I spent the first two years out of the babydaddy relationship walking on AIR that i wasn’t being verbally and emotionally abused…and not walking on eggshells. Then I had the fling with the narc.eu.AC and spent a good year fuming about THAT one but I never was really concerned about not FINDING someone. I’m only 37, so I think the odds are in my favour that at SOME POINT i’ll have a healthy, fulfilling relationship. Meanwhile, I’m totally enjoying just living LIFE, man! I don’t get lonely and I can see lots of good men around. I know happily married couples and fully enjoy time spent socially with them. I LIKE being AVAILABLE for a decent, happy healthy relationship. Of course, I’ve already had my kids and am still enjoying raising them, so the bio. clock isn’t really ticking for me, so maybe that factors into it. And “SETTLE DOWN” ?! I work, have a bit of a social life, spend a whole lot of time raising kids and running a household, and manage to get a wee bit of “alone time” in as well. How much more settled could I get?! I don’t want to cause a ruckus by bringing in a step father , plus i really enjoy having peace and quiet and alone time when i can get a few hours off of kid duty. I’ve got to think that ppl who freak out over never finding someone MUST not have dealt with feeling “not good enough” inside somehow. When you feel good inside, about yourself, your life…you just don’t MIND being single. A relationship is like icing, not the cake. Which means I could grow old and be happy enough with a dog for a companion, as long as I have my friends, my kids, and some semblence of a life.
Maybe it’s cuz my mom left a 23 year marriage with my dad for her current partner when she was 50. (17 years later they’re still together.) I saw firsthand that you can find love at any age. Despite tearing our family apart, it was sort of inspirational! lol. Keep your chins up girls!! Life is what you make it!
I am actually not too hard on myself sometimes for this attitude. When these “I am fatally flawed, with M.S., never gonna find a good man” thoughts cloud my head, I remind myself that I am on a healing journey, recovering from my fatal attraction to useless people that made the world seem this way. I look for the progressive changes in me so far, and I know that slowly, I am changing for the better and that my chances are so much better with my new awareness. These thoughts can be overwhelming and they often take on a life of there own if I let them, I need to quash them before they become real to me again.
And I have come a long way!!….I recently even walked away from two men who couldn’t act like I needed them to. I remembered myself! it’s a miracle as far I am concerned. A long distance travelled from my 20s when it took years to leave a very emotionally and physically abusive relationship with an older and very insecure lecturer from my uni days. Perky tits didn’t change things then….
Great article. I might print it out and stick it near my desk as a new year’s resolution to think more positively about dating.
Natalie, before responding randomly this time, I decided to think first. I believe that I did not do a good job in expressing my self in the previous discussion. Because, I certainly do worship Beyonce or any other celebrity. I was focused on what appeared to be an act of love by her husband. Anyway moving on…..
I agree, that all of this negativity does boil down to the feeling of, ” I am not good enough and I have missed my opportunity at love However, I am completely aware of my negative thinking about myself; currently trying hard to change.
I read somewhere that the person that annoys you the most is usually the mirror reflection of yourself in some aspect. I have a friend who is 53 years old, divorce, very bitter and negative. She says some of the same negative comments that you outlined above. At this time, I am in a constant battle with MYSELF to control my negative thinking. So here I am, friends with someone who is doing something that I am desperately trying to stop. How can I be annoyed with her when I do the same thing in my head. Could it be that life is trying to show me just how ugly this type of thinking is?? Because when I actually hear the comments that come out of her mouth, I think damn this is awful. But, I dont respond, just listen, cause my thoughts are usually along the lines of a tragic story lol.
99% of my friends are married. The other 1% is either divorce or single and still doing the same things that they were doing in their 20s, with no luck. I do not her stories like the one that you told of a relative that found love in her mid 40s and is living happily ever after in her 50s. That story really did put a smile on my face!! In some tiny part of my heart, I believe that happiness and love is possible for me too. Maybe that is the reason why I study this blog and other books because I am trying to prepare myself in order to make love and happiness possible. But I have to point out, that you are more likely to hear about these successful love stories through the nature of of your work. I WANT to keep Hope Alive! I am not looking to give up on myself. I am responsible for my own thinking and behavior and I should be more grounded. Obviously, I am not there yet, but I will keep pushing forward.
I want to say this to you because I’ve met, like you and don’t even think you realise how damn fabulous you are inside and out:
Your concerns are real – they’re yours.
But I wouldn’t use your own social circle as a direct reflection of the world and people, especially if you all have similar outlooks and experiences. I personally know circles of women in your age group, in their 30s and in their 20s who have the same outlook and conversations.
Ironically, when I was in my 20s, two of my closest friends were in their 30s and we all had that outlook for a while.
But here’s the thing – the boyf and my friend that saw you guys at the event were shocked at the attractive, intelligent women of all age groups sitting in the room *and* both remembered you.
But beauty is an internal and external combination – it is a choice about whether we choose to fill ourselves up with ugly thoughts.
I am raised to think poorly of myself and to keep my expectations of myself low. Negative self talk was so ingrained in me that it took listening to myself to realise how much I poisoned myself repeating and creating negative shit about me.
I was told I wouldn’t amount to anything, that men are needed for security, that if you’re not married in your 20s then you’re a spinster, that there’s no good black men, that men don’t like strong women, never mind strong black ones, that at least i have my looks if nothing else…, that nobody would want me, that I had too many issues, that I should have stayed with the ex with race issues, that I’m too picky, that all men cheat, that all men have code red issues and that all relationships are dramatic and that when I found someone I’d like myself.
I just don’t choose to believe it anymore. It’s just not irrefutably true and that’s enough for me.
That family member I mentioned? Most of her friends are OWs but it doesn’t mean that she has to follow the crowd. It only takes one man.
Re Beyonce, ironically after all this talk, according to the hospital, Jay-Z paying that money for a floor is untrue.
I hear you AboutMe, more than you possibly realise, but it doesn’t work for you to hold onto these thoughts so something has got to give.
And check out the Happiness Project website – she talks about happiness all week long!
Natalie Thank you
You are so right, something has to give. My type of thinking is no longer serving me. I have NEVER thought much of myself. Right now, I am fighting so hard for me.
Thank you so much for your kind words, you just do not know how much they meant to me. Honestly, I was literally in tears after I read your comments. And I will check out the happiness blog that you mentioned, I am good and ready for some happiness!
For what it’s worth, my mom has been married three times. After divorce number 2, she was in her mid-forties and despaired no one would ever want her, like she was damaged goods. Within two years she was remarried and remains so after 23 years.
Me, as I said before, was with the gorgeous AC who needed to constantly let me know how flawed I was. He “dumped” me (though I was getting pretty damned sick of him, truth be told…even started “shopping” on line, something I had NEVER done before) and it was the best thing that ever happened to me, though I had my moments of feeling like damaged goods also having previously been divorced from yet another AC. Three months after the breakup, I met a lovely man, honest, genuine, listens and remembers what I say, no games AT ALL. Though on the surface he’s not the most handsome man, to me he grows on me every day because he is so friggin’ NORMAL and kind. BTW, I’ll be 48 on Monday and he is in his mid 50’s raising three small children alone. His ex is significantly younger and he now sees the folly of chasing after much younger women. His idea of a relaxing time after a long day is similar to mine, and it ain’t partying like it’s 1999, which is part of why she left. So for all those women who think ALL middle aged men want women 20 years younger, there are some who have been burned by the fantasy.
The wonderful thing about love is that it really CAN happen at any age; in fact, it can happen any day.
I’m not talking about romantic love; I’m talking about all the other forms of love there are out there. Romantic love is one very limited and short-term form of love, even though it has the power to addle our brain and rule our world while it’s in charge!
Being single and healing, I am rediscovering – and in some cases discovering for the first time – the real depths of other loves: friendship, affection, courtesy, kindness, family love. I’m learning to show them more, and I’m learning to receive them more.
I agree with Natalie – don’t limit yourself to thinking love ain’t out there, and in fact I will go further and say ‘don’t limit yourself to thinking that romantic love is all there is’.
Yoshizzle…your post made me smile lots! You sound like one cool lady! 🙂
Wow. You nailed it once again. The more I see of the dating world, the more it becomes clear that people tend to live self-fulfilling prophecies. Maybe it’s part of the Law of Attraction: we attract what we are. If you really feel that your last chance is gone and your odds of finding love again are .000001%, how likely is it that an emotionally healthy man will want a relationship with you? That’s a lot of negativity to deal with.
I definitely know when I was dating I really steered clear of the guys who were always complaining how hard it was to find a decent woman. Even if they indicated that they thought I might be decent, their mentality made me feel that I’d have to work too hard to prove myself. I’d rather start with someone who was looking forward to the prospect of a new love, rather than someone already dreading an imaginary breakup.
That’s why it’s so important to hang out with and pay attention to positive people and ideas. Most of us already have enough negative self-talk going on and don’t need to hear more from anyone else!
Wow I’ve been feeling much the same as the topics mentioned in this post. Feeling very lost and lonely in a bigger city and quite conflicted about life. Most of my friends are settled down, and the only male bit of attention I get is random calls every now and then from the AC….yayy. I moved away to move on from a few things in my life but it’s even hard to meet new friends here, let alone men. But I think importantly one needs to work on themselves before they let others in, and I don’t think I’m exactly there yet. Particulary after crying on the couch before night shift about an AC who wouldnt’ be giving a rats about me. A good friend said to me once that life is what you make it and most people do end up meeting someone, but you have to be prepared and available to take such oppurtunities when they present themselves 🙂 xx
Well, I have to admit to some hypocrisy here. Even though I’ve been knocking all your heads together, telling y’all that it’s not too late to find love, and that I know men/women in their 40s and 50s who’ve found love, I still think I’m too old.
I’ve been out and about more and getting a lot of male interest. My friends have been commenting on it “Ooh, he really likes you. He won’t stop looking at you”. In a better state of mind I’d be thinking “Yay, I’ve still got it”. But what I’m really thinking is “I’m too old for them”. If you believe something negative you will twist every statistic, observation, experience, word of advice to fit that view.
I’m working very hard to overcome this.
Sure, if for an entire year you go out at least twice a month, accept every invitation, meet new people, join your local Independence Party, volunteer, take dance classes, join a church, join a reading group, chat to people in the shop, ask your friends to set you up, and STILL don’t get a whisper of interest from a suitable man, by all means complain. Otherwise – you haven’t failed yet cos you haven’t tried.
PS Nat – I always thought we were a gorgeous, intelligent, funny group of women and that any single man wandering unsuspectingly into one of your events would think he’d hit the jackpot. Thanks for confirming.
Ahhhh Grace, I just had the “I’m too old for him” discussion last night! One of my guy friends brought a new coworker out with us this weekend, who is thoroughly adorable, but is *gasp* *shock* 23. I had a very nice conversation with him and one of my girlfriends called me up last night specifically to say, “If he asks you out, YOU ARE GOING. No, you are.” I was laughing my head off, but I was like, “Has she lost her damn mind?” Anyway, I hung up with her and turned on the television. Somehow, it always manages to be on E!. Anyway, they were doing a feature on celeb love stories and the subject was Dwayne Wayde and Gabrielle Union. He’s a handsome basketball player who makes more in 20 minutes than I will make in my entire lifetime and she’s this truly stunning actress. Well, I was just about to switch it off and take my dog out for a walk when E! dropped a major bomb on my ass. She’s 10 years older than him. Not that one should be making life decisions based on cable specials, but I had to chuckle. I’m going to take your advice and at least be OPEN to male interest haha!
Grace and Natasha, Try to let go for a bit. It might not work – young boy might not communicate in a way that satisfies you, Natasha, and these men who fancy you, Grace, just might not have the right sort of values. But they’re interested in you, superficially, and you should enjoy that. It’s nice. Be open. You don’t have to (and shouldn’t) give away all your power in one date (read: at any time). Really, it’s a slow thing, falling for someone, when you have your head screwed on and a calm heart. It’s only when you’re feeling desperate, unworthy, highly stressed, inadequate, attached to fantasies etc, etc that these things spiral out of control. You guys can exhale a little and simply enjoy some attention and interaction with these people. It’s not that scary, having to say ‘no’ after a certain short while (a date or party or two), if it’s honest, and it’s actually not that scary having someone not want to meet up with you again (I had a guy recently ask me for coffee then not actually contact me – figure he’s either too busy, has someone else on the boiler, or saw something in me that made him feel uneasy, which is all fine with me!). Give it a try!
Elle
That was beautiful and really helped me after recently letting insecurities run away from me, which has led to a decent gent backing off. He cut contact gracefully, but instantly. It was a good shock to the system, and I’ve had a sudden paradigm shift in mindset. It’s time to ‘exhale a little and simply enjoy some attention and interaction with these people.’
I’m sick of hearing my insecurities, and voicing them just cements it a little bit more. Enough. I’m damaged, got burns and scars. If they run off screaming, that’d be awful, but I’ll survive. What I’m noticing is that there ARE men who don’t get scared off by my online profile (I’m often tired by my disability so online extends my social life), which talks about my scars. Some of them are Florences…some are Controlling…..some throw crumbs of sympathy and are confused when I don’t lap them up. And some, I discovered, are ok. Polite, decent, make an effort. And they don’t need the drama I’m directing in my head.
I’m gonna give your way a try!
Elle
Thank you for calm words.
I’ve never been bothered by age, I’ll happily to talk to babies, people in their 90s and all the ones in between. Teenagers give me pause cos of the sarcasm (they think it’s so cool!) but I can handle it.
I’ve never been someone who says “OMG I’m 3 years older than him”. I always thought that an age difference of 10 years (man or woman older) makes no difference at all. Any more than that, there may be logistical problems (eg if someone wants kids) but the two people can still get on famously.
I think I’m putting it on the table now because – it’s the only excuse I’ve got left. I no longer feel damaged. I think I CAN enjoy a mutual relationship. I think a genuine man would like me. But I have fear, so I’ve dragged out this age excuse WHICH I NEVER USED BEFORE despite all the terrible drama I’ve been involved in.
At church, a woman in her 50s was telling us how she met the man she married while she was going through menopause and had decided NO MORE MEN. I should have been uplifted but I mainly thought “Oh no, it could still happen for me!”.
I’ve turned down two dates (well, not really dates as we don’t do that in the UK, but definite potential and expressions of interest) because of fear. Feel free to remind me of that if, in a months’ time, I’m bemoaning the “fact” that there are NO men.
As I approach menopause and have early symptoms showing, I sometimes feel hesitant to mention them for fear of being considered the ‘old cow’ who should be put out to pasture. It isn’t reasonable, I know but it plays into my fears of running out of time and getting old. I am inspired when I hear stories of women finding great partners once they are in their 40’s and older. The last chance saloon is something I have to remind myself is just an internal fear that likes to show up and shout at me from time to time, looking for a weak spot to grab hold of. Shake it off!
Elle, love your post, yes we can deal with fear of rejection. Just like that, sky won`t fall in. Thank you.
Love it Elle – thank you so much for the perspective, as always 🙂 The funny part is that, since I’ve only met this dude once, I don’t mind either way if he asks me out or doesn’t, but there I am on the phone with my girlfriend saying, “Bah! AGE DIFFERENCE!” The whole thing boils down to, “Oh, what if I dated this guy and he decided I was a crone!” That’s just plain old silly and probably a holdover from dating an abusive guy a few years ago – I was a whopping two years older than him and he used to tell me I desperately needed Botox. I am going to take what you said to heart lady!
Natasha:
“I was a whopping two years older than him and he used to tell me I desperately needed Botox.”
Seriously!?Asshole. And he desperately needed a swift boot up the arse followed by a personality transplant!
Man I love the way you write! Awesome blog.
One thing I have difficulty in is detecting bullshit statements and beliefs. Here is a selection of some of the rubbish I’ve heard, stuff like:
1. “You can’t get commitment out of a gay man and certainly not *before* having sex” (rubbish! what are all those couples I see)
2. “Are you good at sex? Do you ask for feedback from people you sleep with so you can get better?” (I fell off my chair – WTF, what does “good” sex even mean? Some of these assclowns are so awful they should be getting dumped not pandered to). You can’t sex your man/woman into commitment!
3. Nobody wants to you if you are fat (I have been with three people who feel ashamed about their bodies or get inferiority complex when buff people walk around – what the hell?)
4. “It is OK to date/see other people if there hasn’t been a discussion about a committed relationship” (How devaluing!!)
5. “If you hit 30 and you don’t already have a partner, it is over for you!”
6. “Friends first and then for the right person, you can maybe upgrade” (ugh, why not just go on a proper date? Does no-one date anymore?)
So much rubbish being fed to us by media, peers, and whatever else it is like one needs to be armed with a bullshit-o-meter to detect and deflect all this negative garbage.
Is the ‘dating multiples’ and American thing? It seems to be all the rage in dating advice; Dating three to find ‘the one’. Friends from abroad find this idea a little odd, as do I, and I’m an American! I understand the underlying philosophy…if you aren’t over involved with one one because you’re seeing others, you won’t be betting all your money on one guy. On the other hand, who has the TIME to date three guys at one time, who actually MEETS three guys WORTH dating at one time???
I think I’d rather develop some all-consuming hobby than try to date more than one guy at a time. Plus I feel it’s a little playerish, and aren’t we all trying to get AWAY from people who act like this? And from personal experience, when I tried this line of thinking and tried to multidate, it was alway inevitable that Guy A would call or text while I was with Guy B or C. As a single Mom I check my phone if I’m out, though I only answer it if it is one of my kids. But to see another guys number on my phone when I’m out with another guy made me feel like a creep.
Hi Tracy – its definitely an American thing. If we’re seeing a few people, we call it shagging around. Even ‘dating’ in the way it’s talked about is quite American. In the UK and Ireland, it’s go out, get introduced to someone, see each other and either become official relationship or not. In fact often there’s a pub, work do, or party involved.
I was thinking about this today.
Dating is 100 : 100 too. Anything less is inauthentic and might even miss red flags. This might be hard if you do online dating (there are always messages coming in) but I deleted my profile because it is an assclown magnet.
If you date 3 people, chatting up a fourth, your time and concentration and abilities to look are going to be at 25%. You’re going to want to keep the speed under control as different people progress to different stages. It’s like trying to see who wins the race first. And totally EU as well!
@tired: I think I’ll stay away from online dating too. Well, I guess given my recent emotional turmoil, I’m not yet ready to date anyway.
Anyway, “in a pinch”, I think I’d ask friends/acquaintances or a nice coworker whether they knew someone available rather than sign up for online dating. I find the idea slightly embarassing (asking other people about suitable dates), but in the end I think it would be much more “safe” emotionally than online dating. Of course, those dates won’t necessarily work out either (as Nat has mentioned countless times), but I think there would be less dishonesty and manipulation than online.
I think multiple dating descended upon us with online dating. You inavitably are in contact with more than one person, but I do think that once you meet one that you like enough to see again you should skip seeing others, in other words be willing to make a transition from cyber to real life and have respect to give that person real attention even if it is for a few dates. A lot of people don`t take that view, but for me it`s an indication of their general attitude and ACness. They make you an option from the word go. My ex did that to me, ended in tears ( mine). Not putting your eggs in one basket is a great idea for financial investments, with relationships- that is exactly what we want!
I get the impression that in American English there is a distinction between “dating” around and “sleeping” around. It can be a positive thing to see and get to know more than person at a time, with sleeping not part of the immediate equation. As long as no one is being lied to, dating more than one person casually can reduce that “last-chance” feeling decried in this post.
A Dear Friend of mine bought me a book for Xmas..(This person is a Man)!
Anyway,the Book is entitled “God on a Harley”,For anyone who has had a broken heart.
The Main Character in the Book is A woman in her late 30s who has never been married,and had dated every Eum that has ever been,She is jaded and bitter.
She is walking along the Beach and sees this Man on a Harley smack dab in the middle of the Beach,She is drawn to him,and she discovers,after much disbelief,this Man is God,or whoever you want to call your Higher Power.
She is angry at him because she cannot understand why A God of love has never been there for her,especially in regards to Men,And he says there was a reason she had all these Men is her life,albiet Painful,but he has come to show here how to truly Love herself,and open up the world for all things Great!
I have only gotten this Far…
I guess I relate to this Woman as I have so many times,been angry and bitter,at why God has not send me someone to Marry,or Love..
But for me God has a plan,and altho it has been a hard long road most times,I have taken something out of each and everyone of these relationships.
I truly believe that God also Brought me toDate the last Eum,the disapearer,which led me to Nat and all you Ladies..
I guess he wanted to stop the cycle of crap in my life,It is not the last chance Saloon for me,I am in the Meantime,learning to love myself,and that is the Greatest love….
Brenda
Amen Brenda! I’m going to buy that book, I cant believe I’ve never heard of it before. Truly, it wasnt until my last eum/ac and at the same time finding BR that I honestly recognized what EU was from me and them. I have thought since I started reading this website that Natalie’s purpose is far larger than anyone can even imagine. I am so grateful for all the people on here that are willing to be honest with themselves and us so that we can all grow from it. I will say though, that because I’ve gone to therapy to work on myself and adhered to good advice given on this website, I havent ever thought that my romantic life is over even at 44.
Hey Nat you forgot:
All the good ones are either taken or gay (otherwise said as taken or straight) depending on who you are!
LMAO – LOVED THE COW!!!!! Made me laugh so hard!!
The cow looks likes she’s thinking, “What?!? So all the good bulls are NOT taken?”
Aimee/Skyscraper…Isn’t it a pic of a Bull?(No udders!). I thought it was some mangy ol’ EUM bull saying ‘C’mon Ladies I’m still here!’
It’s a bull, and behind him is a pile of shite
I don’t know where Nat finds these pictures.
“I want a picture of BS”
LOL, gals. I guess I’m secretly attracted to bullshit, ’cause he is just the coolest-looking dude. Made me smile. His face is saying, “And your point is, Nat?”
What a wonderful post as always, I would like to say that after almost 6 years after meeting the ex AC/EUM I can finally finally truly see him for what he is ~ this is even more of a revelation to me than it first appears, you see I am one of those people who see the good in everyone and also up until a couple of days ago, I realised, I was still holding onto a hope that one day the AC would suddenly turn into Prince Charming, well, after some really pathetic text messages which initially did their job ~ got me very wound up, I am finally able to see this AC for what he is ~ an AC! He regards me with not even the basic shred of respect or treats me that way and you know what, if a grown man is behaving like that towards another human being, after all the therapy etc that he’s had as well, then you know what, I can’t see no good in him. Maybe one day he will sort himself out, maybe he won’t but it’s neither my concern nor any of my business and another thing, since this recent revelation I also no longer believe that I am not able to find love!!!! I am in no way ready for dating just yet but I know that if and when I am, there is no reason why I shouldn’t find true love and I will be 44 years old this year! Some people on the last post said they wanted to hear success stories, well, with the help of this site, the two books and all you lovely ladies and the few men on here, I now count myself as a success story! No I’m not in a loving relationship with a ‘significant other’ but I love myself, I love my family and God and I have lots of fabulous friends spread out across the country and there are many more to meet. Today I celebrate finally seeing the AC for what he is, all the jigsaw pieces are falling into place and I am very happy. I NEVER thought I would find love, I NEVER thought I was worthy of it and to know that I AM is priceless. Natalie, what a gift you have given me, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, you are a real treasure xxx
What a lovely post Lovingme, brought me to tears!! We have many things in common, I’m 43 next week and known my EUM for nearly 6 years. Just this week I have also come to the conclusion (finally) that he is never going to suddenly turn into the version of him that sits in my mind. He is currently playing the wonderful boyfriend role to his current ‘girlfriend’ but I know she is not seeing the real him….what he is capable of….she most likely will come to her senses in time and to be honest I pity her when that time comes as she has clearly got him on a pedestal higher than the effiel frigging tower right now!!! I just hope she finds this website in time.
This post today could not have come at a better time for me…I too believe it is not too late to find love, even if it means waiting another 10 years. I have more or less accepted that children will not feature in my life, but I have not given up on the prospect of a life partner. What I won’t do any more is ‘settle’. I would rather be alone and happy than be in a situation where I am not myself and am in fact lying to myself.
2012 is going to be spent loving ME. Ok I made a mistake at the beginning of the year, but as Nat has said in her ‘Happy New Year’ video, you are allowed to make mistakes. I would not have come to the point I am right now with regards to the EUM without making those mistakes.
PS Just to carry on the Beyonce theme…..I have played “I’m a Survivor” several times today….there has to be something said for strong music and meaningful lyrics….thank-you Beyonce!! and thank-you lovingme for sharing x
Great article with helpful tips. I can relate to a couple of excuses made here, and used a couple last night talking to a friend, lol. I am working on goals to have w better outlook on life. Another fantastic article.
At the moment I am single and healing, I choose not to get back quickly into dating.
I’ve never felt however,that I won’t recover or that there may be a future relationship for me. It’s something to look forward to.
It’s not like I’ve undergone a personal ‘Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind’ cleansing, I remember all the tough moments, the acute pain, the self-disgust, the lack of esteem but I also know that I will love again.
It’s just that I won’t do this blindly.
Not all men are EU,this is a fact. My first long term relationship was with a guy who is still my pal, as young adults we recognised that we were better as friends…my husband and thirteen year marriage was not a waste ground of EU and drama. We were incompatible and still have love for each other.
But, I have been in and behaved as an emotionally unavailable person in two long term relationships and that is what I want to sort out fully before I move on. There are a myriad of reasons…my childhood and theirs,( big trigger), Florencing and control issues, external factors like stress, bereavement and also being simply duped by future fakery and returning to scene of crimes too often. And many more!
However, today, I am in a different place. My priority is my relationship with myself, but that’s vastly improved. I regularly turn over reasons for doing things, not obsessive rumination, just sensible checking. I’m about to go out again socially, have been hermit like for a few months. I have a new career plan. I have new ways of interacting with my family..so hermit-ship was useful!
My last relationship was possibly with the most duplicit man( to himself as well as to me) I’ve known..but it was a learning curve, actually a learning south face of the Eiger! I actually should thank God for that, because, with the help of BR, it is bringing me back to self and love.
Just wanted to say that I truly don’t get this ‘Age’ thing at all. I’m well into my forties, there are men out there, non EUM’s, but if they are a bit younger, so what? If they are a bit older, so what? If we advocate authenticity in self and relationships as we do on BR, then what’s age got to do with the price of fish?
hi Lynda, so funny, I was writing a comment earlier mentioning Eternal Sunshine, went with finding Jeannie’s bottle and having my wish granted to erase it all… it’s very good to hear that you’re not having issues around ease of meeting people in your 40’s. I can’t say the same is true for me, or my circle of gf’s in this Big Cold City. I really wish I could move. I’ve always had the feeling that if I spent some time in UK or Ireland, I’d be married in a month or two! (… that’s an exaggeration, obviously 🙂 )
Since I found this site last month, no better place for me on the whole www.
This site helped me to finish my relations with MM 3 weeks ago, gave me confidence that there is still hope for me.
I will be 38 in May, but looking at least 10 years younger. Luckily, I have PhD, have excellent job, nice salary, own flat, lots of travelling. Since as a child I was always most beautiful, smartest, educated. everybody envy me….but I had always had low self esteem..nobody knew, and still do not know that no boys were after me…at least not nice persons I wanted always to settle down. Too desperate I was after persons who looked at me as a trophy and wanted to humiliate me to show that I am not that perfect. I had only two relationships in my life and this MM because I was so desperate to have someone. I humiliated myself with him giving him opportunity to behave and to do whatever he wants. Since discovering this site, I have already changed a lot. I was so sad that I could not sleep at night. Now, my confidence is boosting, I left MM, more smiling and no more nervous. I am in time pressure to have a baby…but will go slowly since I changed my patterns…
Thank you for this site and thanks to the all ladies on this blog.
Thank you Natalie for such a positive post as it saved my life last night. Well, not literally, but it seems like the dating disappointments are all rolling into one giant sense of sadness for me of late, and I’m just not sure how to sort it out sometimes. I wrote after the last post about a guy I had incredible chemistry who backed out of a NYE date right after we met. I got some very helpful, honest responses, thanks to the cool women on his site. Long story short, after he blew a little hot and old with some texts he called me and asked me out again. After another awesome date followed by a flirty text by him, he blew cold and texted, yes texted yesterday and said we weren’t a good match. Now I can already hear all of the good riddances coming my way and rightfully so. I am so incredibly tired of the hurt and confusion, but I still don’t seem to get jaded, in the sense of screw it, I’m joining a convent, but I do worry about the sadness I feel over things never working out. I am getting quite depressed about it all. I don’t want to put that kind of energy out there either, but it’s how I feel. I’m in therapy, but we seem to go back and forth between it’s me and its them and I just end up confused. I know it’s both in the ways NAtalie writes about, but sometimes I’m still so confused about all of it and just end up sad. Will I ever be attracted to a guy who can reAlly go there?
Kmac,
here is what I think. After the stunts he pulled the first time you had a bad impression of him followed by a need to analyse the situation. Both warning signs. What consequently happened proved to you that your gut was right from the beginning, which just shows you that you can really trust yourself, the first reaction is correct, no need to analyse and see what happens. Don`t get depressed, it`s only a lesson for the future. You are fed up but not heartbroken, leave it at that ( as he is an AC he might be back). Next time you will just flush and feel empowered by it- and hence give out a really positive vibe. Upwards and from now on 🙂
Kmac
yes
Aw, yeah I remember Kmac, sorry it didn’t work out. Your feelings are perfectly understandable. You tried though..put yourself out there, thats worth a huge pat on your back.
You know something… you will try again and you will get a guy who can really, really go there!
Be thankful that they were just dates. Some people get shacked up for 20+ years to Mr Wrong! You got out, try again!
@Kmac
“…it seems like the dating disappointments are all rolling into one giant sense of sadness for me of late, and I’m just not sure how to sort it out sometimes.”
I’m feeling that way today, too, Kmac.
I love men but they are sooo confusing.
At least your guy was honest with you fairly early on so you can move on without too much heartbreak.
I’m getting the cold treatment from a guy I liked who seemed to like me. I left my number on his car window last week (not so slick, I know) and last night when I saw him again, he acted so weird.
My gf and I were talking to two men we had met before at one of our local haunts, and he just sat across the bar and refused to meet my eyes. I was feeling rejected because he never called or texted me, so I didn’t approach him. (Like I really need to have him say “I’m not interested” to my face?) He didn’t approach me either.
I left briefly with one of the guys and when I returned, he had left the bar (unusual; he stays late). Was he angry because I was talking to other men?
I’m friendly, outgoing and love to meet people. Hell, he didn’t call, so what am I expected to do? Wait around? Not talk to other men? I communicated my interest, isn’t the ball in his court?
Do you see why I’m confused? Ladies, I would love to hear your thoughts…
Blueberry girl,
what’s confusing? You leave your number, they don’t call and act funny when you see them next. Move on. You’ve been given the “not interested” signal big time. Isn’t that what you would do if you weren’t interested in someone..not call them, be a bit embarrassed when you see them next. Guys are just like women in many respects. Let’s not make it hard for them to communicate with us.
Blueberry
I’m just thinking…mmm… it shouldn’t be this difficult for you – or for a guy. Every time, without fail, through my whole life, if it was ‘difficult’ at the start, it stayed that way, even if I managed to get him to go out with me. The only ‘naturally flowing’ relationships I ever had – not many – flowed naturally from the word go – getting it started wasn’t hard for either of us. Now…there I just told myself the biggest lesson I needed to learn – if it feels difficult, it WILL be!
Fearless, you read my mind. This is ridiculous. It shouldn’t be this difficult and unnatural and awkward. He seemed interested in the beginning but something changed. I was friendly and warm to him; now he’s stopped talking to me. He’s not that special.
I get it ~ not interested. Time to move on. Natalie & you guys taught me to ask myself, “Why would I want to be with someone who doesn’t value or want me?”
I’m just frustrated. I meet many men who are not interested and it’s hard to staunch the rejection. Where is the one who is? Sometimes, I think I’m trying too hard.
this is my first comment ever, but what I found so eerie about it is that other people on this date and time are feeling just what I am feeling, which goes to show that it is not so unique and therefore not true… in my eyes anyway. I believe in and I will find love, instead of the look alike versions I have settled for in the past.
I am only feeling this way now because since I have worked on and changed other aspects of my life, I am facing the fact of working at finding the relationship that I really want…. and this way of thinking is a by product of my own laziness.
Meek..
When I first found this site,I was in rough shape let me tell you!
I was with a Man who was as Angry and Unavailable as they come.
I thought I was the only woman out there who would have picked this loser,who dissapeared,Because I was a terrible person…
It has been 4 months,and 3 no Contact,I dont cry anymore,I am constantly changing and growing,and not worrying about what the Shit Head did..He was this way befor,and he will be the same long after..
Please keep coming back here and posting,read what the Women have to say..
Nat has become my Teacher,My freind,and a tough one when we need it….
Brenda
Another great post Natalie!
Lately I have only been reading the posts and blogs daily without commenting because I was finding that whenever I added a comment I used it to rant and rave about my experience with the most handsome but damn right narcissistic EUM I have ever met! It was always about him and I just don’t really want to give him much more space in my brain than what he has already! However, this post touched me because even though friends and family and my lovely 18 year old daughter tell me I’m beautiful and lucky to have a good job etc.. secretly I kept on thinking I’m not good enough because he dumped me and at 37 years old (even though I look 27 lol) no guy is going to be interested in me. But when I think about it from the outside it just sounds pathetic!
So I’ve had to change my thought pattern (its not easy) and realise that I still have ample time to find the love of my life. I am one of these women that is truly in love with being in love and my last experience with someone that future faked me to the extreme and then passive aggressively dumped me without a word, text or phone call was just a wake up call to tell me that there are some idiots out there so be careful what you wish for.
It has been 3 months NC from him (I didn’t really need to do NC because he done it me) and I’ve come out the other end feeling hopeful again. I feel I am ready to start dating but this time I’m armed with lots of helpful information from BR!
Like Natalie says we haven’t finished living our lives yet and you really don’t know what is around the corner unless you have a crystal ball. If there is anyone that does have a crystal ball or can see into the future please let me know asap so that I can come see you! 🙂
Steph..
My Lady,You are not alone!
Mine left with no word nothing!Just dissapeared after 5 months…5 months of future faking,anger,breaking up,coming back….I was devastated….
They are Cowards,Plain and simple!!!
I thought I was so unworthy,that it was my fault,if I only I had dome things diff….They were this way before…and they will be this way after…
God I wish People were kinder!
Brenda
Great post! I’ve said these things to myself in the past as an excuse to avoid relationships. My question is though, how does one go out and find available men to date when you are now absolutely convinced you are a GREAT catch and logistically it just ain’t happening at the moment?
I’m an attractive single mom with a great career, home, personality and I’ve has never had any issues initally meeting men in the past but my only means of meeting men is through online dating, which I’d like to avoid, unless I have no other alternative as I’ve tried that for 15 years now. I’ve always had a excellent response from men online though but I got to the point of writing a copy and paste “mass email” which gives a bunch of pertient facts about myself, in order to reply fast enough to everyone who contacted me intially and I feel like a telemarketer LOL. All that emailing back and forth, narrowing down to finally one guy is just too much work. (I have to choose one guy because I have 1 free night per month to go on blind dates….2 guys would end up only seeing me every other month…)
I just want to meet someone “In Real Life” where it will be easier to schedule a date because I’ve gotten the intial “screening” date out of the way by knowing them IRL already. To avoid online dating, I’ve actually gotten to the point of going on Facebook and opening the every single male’s “friends” profiles to figure out just who is still single….grand total as of this month….4 unattached adult men out of 250 and 2 happen to be blood relatives LOL. Not exaggerating, ALL of the other 246 are listed as married, engaged or in a relationship. What ever happened to the 50% divorce rate? I’ve even clicked on Facebook “friends of friends” to figure out if one of them is single. LOL I’ve taken my dog for walks all over my neighborhood to stumble upon a single guy and 100% of the homes have married couples. I’ve then asked all of these married neighbors if they know a single guy and everyone is at a loss. I’ve signed my son up for baseball, football, soccer, karate and swimming and been on high alert for a single Dad….have not found one yet. I’ve spent hours walking aimlessly at Home Depot and Lowes, the dog beach and the grocery store trying to “bump” into a single guy.
I walk around Petsmart with my dog looking for a single male dog owner…
Still Looking
I laughed when I read your comment because I too have done some of the same things to meet an available man in “I Real Life”. I met my last EUM online and it has put me off online dating forever.
I know its a cliche but in the past I have always met someone when I was least expecting it or just going about my business. Its sometimes hard to have patience when you really want to meet someone.
My best friend got married 4 weeks ago to a lovely guy she met in passing only 8 months ago (I was a bridesmaid) and she has had her fair share of EUMs in the past. It can happen. 🙂
Still Looking
This was a very cool comment :). I have done alot of the same things too :). I found that I can meet alot of available men when I’m engaged in some *interesting* activity that they do. For example: gym, meetups, martial arts, etc. It’s very good when there is some common ground and activities usually provide that. Just like Stephanie I met my EUM online and similarly, I would not touch any dating site with a ten foot pole!
Deleted my dating profile. It is easy to get caught up looking at people and if you’re like me – sucker for the fantasy and correlating looks / lust levels to whether a person is decent or not, I take NML’s advice and steer clear.
I have a friend who just turned 50 and has never had a serious relationship that was worth a damn… always dated womanizers, alcoholics, etc. She got down about it for a little bit, but then she decided to just focus on herself. She instead focused on her career and hobbies, making her home comfortable and nice, taking care of her dogs, visiting friends…
One day she was out with a group of friends and a guy was there whom she did not pay much attention to at all. He was not her usual “type.” She saw him again with that group and got to talk to him a bit and thought he was a nice guy. The more she talked to him, the more she realized he was really interesting and fun. She never would have thought that would be the type of guy she would end up with, but they started dating and fell in love. Now they are engaged.
She is not a beauty queen, not Miss Intelligent, makes a modest living, lives a pretty simple life, but she is happy with herself and enjoys life and is a lot of fun to be around. He is a very good looking man and very nice with a good job and good family and friends.
Never give in to those beliefs that it can’t happen!
What a fab post!!
im in my twenties and the things natalie listed above about what twenty somethings think is spot on!
everyone i meet seems to want “a bit of fun” well i dont want a bit of fun!! wheres all the decent fellas at? only one please!
its disheartening to see all my friends shacked up, i realised yesterday that i dont have one single friend, how depressing to be constantly surrounded by people in loved up relationships?
having said that, im much happier now than i ever have been, before i found this site i was relentlessly chasing an EUM, how pathetic =( but now i am free of him and his horrible ways… one step closer =)
thanks everyone who comments, i love reading everyones posts
xxx
One thing that I found during my really drawn out horrible grieving process that slowly I began to recover. I kid you not, even the psycologist was having such a hard time, as this wasn’t the stock standard break up. It wouldn’t go away and sometimes I’d come and read this site and it would be like seeing the posts written on an alternate universe. My thoughts and feeling were on different planets at the time.
As I began to recover over many months, and with the help of a 3 month sex ban followed by a blanket dating ban, dismantling online dating profiles, writing down rules and so forth, I strangely found that people became friends with me. And I met these people through other friends or they were randoms in nightclubs.
My life is different now and I am beginning to enjoy myself. If you never come to peace with yourself, it will interfere with other people as well.
It can also be horrible and awful when your friends couple up and neglect you or don’t spend as much time as they did with you. So I got new friends to replace them.
A psychologist can be the the independant ear or someone to report progress back to or uncover deeper things that may be going on. I’m glad what I did – the AC was always a dead end, go-nowhere situation, can’t win.
Life is better now. And I thought I would never see the day.
A few more months and I will be ready to try my hand again!
Natalie, please let me thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything i have learned from this site. I have never been one to tolerate AC behavior from any one. I have always recognized it and called out the person displaying it, ASAP! The trouble is that until i started reading your posts and the comments that follow, i had no clue that i was EU. Heck, i didn’t even know that, the term existed. Now i realize that i probably chose my relationships knowing that they would be easy to leave. The last one was my “epiphany relationship”. I used to walk around clucking to all my friends that would listen how i am was sooo ready for a serious relationship. What a joke.
Having grown up in an abusive home with a stepmother from hell, a father who never stood up for us and almost always piled on the abuse too in order pacify his wife, and a mother who abandoned us…. I have never even attempted to deal with things appropriately.
At 31, yes i do wonder sometimes if i have waited too long and missed out on something special. I also know that it’s ridiculous to think that way, because i am attractive, funny and i have a good career.
Time for some professional help.
Thanx Natalie for the reminder that it’s never too late. Forget the excuses and work on becoming emotionally available.
Natalie,thank you so very,very much for this wonderful,funny and inspiring post.It is exactly what I need right now as what with all the soppy xmas malarky and the whole bloody world seeming to be cosily loved up,I’ve been hugely struggling against massive negativity. Because of all the great help I’ve got from you,I’ve just about managed to keep one step ahead of that sneering voice somewhere within that nags:
“love will never happen for you”
“you’re jinxed,you’ve always been jinxed”
you’re too old now,you’ve got saggy tits and wrinkles,no fella wants that”
“the town is too small,you haven’t a hope of finding a decent man around here”
“you’re too highly strung,who’d put up with you”
“They’re all assholes anyway,the decent ones are long gone”
etc,etc
Funnily enough I’m actually surrounded by relationship success stories in friends and collegues and rather than that making me feel better by giving me the proof of positivity,it makes me feel a helluva lot worse.Because I’m the exception and that makes me feel like a freak. Another poster said it can be negative here at times and that’s true but there’s comfort in numbers and we need not to feel that we are the only ones with crap experiences.So I’ve just joined a meetup group in a nearby city for divorced and separated people. Along with a few other new clubs and activities I intend doing to get me out there,out of my comfort zone and risking life. Because we must never give up on ourselves.
When I was in my thirties I went through a phase of feeling very unattractive.I had put on a bit of weight and my hair had gone frizzy [this was in the pre hair straightener days]. I was convinced that I had officially entered spinsterhood,even started to dress quite frumpily and reckoned no guy would give me a second glance. And guess what? Few did. I had given up on myself as a sexy female so sex and romance gave up on me.Self fulfilling prophecy. Then suddenly I entered my forties and all hell broke loose. I shed the weight,straightened my hair,hit the town and pulled all round me! I was now a sexy woman with attitude and the guys were queuing up.Over the next decade I got engaged,unengaged and had several relationships.All AC’s but you get the point. We get back from life what we put out.Law of attraction.So we must stick with life and life’s risks.Otherwise it’s bitterness and self imposed isolation and that’s a non starter.
AMEN Natalie! Thanks
Again Nat sends out posts just when I need to hear it. How in hell do you do that? Just last night my best friend and I were talking about this. I said to her… if a hot man walked into my life right now, and I was offered a hot apple pie, I’d choose the pie. Apple pie has no drama, and tastes so good. She said she would choose a bowl of oatmeal over a hot man at this point in her life lol. She and I both have been had similar issues with men. Although she has more ability to see red flags and just walks. Needless to say she has had a lot of dates. Me on the other hand thinks there is a great guy under all the shit he’s shoveling. I woke up this morning with a more positive attitude. I’ve been out of work lately, I grab the cheap local paper, yep paper. I found a job ad, emailed my resume, they called, I interviewed this afternoon, and was hired. So for me I’m finding my positive in ME, not a man. I believe what Nat says is true, I haven’t been happy with me. That unhappiness is what is driving me to less than worthy men. We defeat our own chances at love with these negative thoughts. Thanks again Nat.
I needed this one.
Three months ago I met someone who seemed interested but after a couple of dates she said she wanted to be ‘just friends’. I backed off, but after some back and forth email and phone calls (by both parties) we did hang out a couple times. It was awkward. Finally she admitted that she didn’t want to see me at all.
Instead of being relieved that it was over, I was depressed. I grieved the end of a fantasy relationship with someone I hadn’t had a real date with in two months! Someone who wasn’t a good match for me, but who I saw as a last chance saloon even though we only went out about four times…two of them as ‘friends’.
I should have cut things off completely when I heard ‘just friends’ but I stuck around because I thought I had no options. I made her spell it out instead of being responsible for myself. Lesson learned. I’m pushing out of my comfort zone though, learning from mistakes and going on.
After my epiphany I had a torchlight moment where all my previous dates/relationships/non-relationships were put under a very bright white searchlight as I searched for clues.
Every time that either I have or someone else has uttered the word ‘friends’ it turns to rubbish. EVERY TIME.
“Friendship” is often a case of “retitling” or “repackaging” crumbs. Nothing changes except the title! It is worse than crumbs, it is repackaged crumbs!
The contact dies off all the same, they go and look at other people or their existing friendbase and I struggle to even think of any good friendships that have come from when either I or the other person expected an LTR. Dating sites are NOT friendship sites!
Not only that you burn up time friending them and you could be spending that on you or someone else.
I had made the exception because I thought I could upgrade later or that they were a great person or that we were friends before (or at least I thought so).
From now on, if anyone says the F word, is is automatic DUMP followed by NCR.
And if you have had sex with the person, they are NOT a friend. DUMP!! You will be downgraded to passing time candidate, booty call, friends with benefits or even cuddle friend or armchair psychologist friend.
Hi Natalie and ladies,
Natalie, all your posts need to published in the magazines which are relied on by millions for relationship advice but this one really needs to be published. The conventional wisdom regarding age, dating, and relationships is hysterical and so wonderfully contradictory once it’s spelled out. I realized I was subtly falling prey to the 50’s “wisdom” you identify with the addition of “all the good guys in their 50’s are taken”. I like the connection you draw between giving up on love and giving up on myself.
Yes! A magazine! What I would have given to have had Natalies articles to read, rather than how to ‘catch and keep him – 10 hot tips’….especially as a teenager.
World wide circulation required!!
I usually agree 100% with Natalie. A part of this article is an exception. Being in my close-to-mid-50s, I can DEFINITELY say that there are NO good men left, at least not in the part of the USA where I live. By “good” I mean a man who, first and foremost is MORAL (which prevents just about every bad behavior there is), is MONOGAMOUS (not a cheater, which is a subset of being MORAL) and can, in an emotionally healthy way, become in love and love one woman. I’d also want this man to be kind, have a reasonable sex drive (can at least do something even if his wiener doesn’t work – and 90% of them in the 50+ age group don’t!), be fun and youthful (not acting like an immature moron who is TRYING to act younger, but simply to have a spark for life so that he and his partner can enjoy their time and life together). I’m not interested in his looks (as long as I find him appealing and I can feel passion for him rather than being repulsed and just grinning and bearing it just so I won’t be alone without a guy). I’m not interested in his money (as long as he is financially secure, e.g., has a job and/or a reasonable amount of savings so that he can pay his living expenses and can afford to go out — I don’t want to be stuck in the house on “house dates” week after week after week).
OK, so, what I described should NOT be that difficult to find. Well, it IS! The PROBLEM IS 1) MONOGAMY! These guys today have NO MORALS! As I’ve stated here many a time, partly it is due to these guys thinking that they’re God’s gift to women BECAUSE the WOMEN themselves make these guys think that. The other part, which is the MAIN root cause, is WOMEN SPREADING THEIR LEGS for these guys! We have to KEEP THE LEGS SHUT UNTIL WE KNOW WHERE WE ARE WITH THE GUY! Enough said!
The FIRST point in reasoning and engaging in an intelligent inquiry with ourselves regarding our realistic chances of finding love is to DEFINE what we mean by “success stories.” We often compare ourselves to others, so this is important.
To me, “success” means that the word “TERM” is NOT part of the equation. When a guy says “short-term,” and “long-term,” THAT is problem. Why? Because TERM comes from the Latin word “terminus,” which means that there is a limit or an ending. I do NOT want to start dating a guy when I already KNOW that he has stamped an EXPIRATION DATE on my forehead! I want to date a man who is perfectly and healthily open to having a LASTING relationship if we each find in each other the important characteristics and qualities that we need and want.
It goes without saying here, that NO WOMAN should have SEX with a guy that she knows is CLOSED to a LASTING relationship! However, for highly sexual (yet moral and self-dignified) women like me, that puts us in a conundrum: if we can’t find a good guy who is looking for a lasting relationship, we don’t have sex, and it can take YEARS to find one, IF we find one! So, at the risk of engaging in the “either/or” example of fallacious reasoning, we either get ourselves to a nunnery or we have to have sex with a guy here and there who does NOT want a lasting relationship. This is SCARY to me, so I’ve opted to not date at this point in time.
Having said that, however, since being only around women and no testosterone can be extremely stressful, downright unhealthy, and a major hope killer, there is one other option that I’ve considered for me (and women like me) — women who value themselves and their self-dignity and will not allow some guy to use them for their own ends. That option is: to start MULTIPLE DATING. For women, there is one important benefit to multiple dating, which is that because our attention is divided among several guys (preferably 3 to 4), we won’t run as high a risk of quickly falling in love with any one of them (and thus, prematurely having sex with him) before we know WHO and WHAT they are, what intentions they have with us, and what, if anything, they feel for us! That, in and of itself, will SPARE US quite a significant amount of HEART ACHE! I think I just talked myself into starting dating sooner than I had planned. 🙂
I think I understand your point. When I have options I don’t get so attached to one and the first signs of EUM BS and can confortably flush because I still have other options. However when guys are just options to you, they didn’t meant any to begin with. There is always one that have more pull than the others.
This is what I was saying above. This strategy keeps it from being all about one person before you know whether it could work or not..
Thanks Natasha for the suggested post (great one! Right on the money) and thanks Nat for the reality check! 🙂
I just wanted to say that I had to laugh to I read this. I think I’ve used most of these excuses at one time or another. It’s so hard to stay positive when I haven’t had a date in three years but thank you for the reminder that I still have a lot of work to do on myself and my thinking. I wasted 15 years in a relationship that was very wrong for me because I thought I wouldn’t get another chance at finding someone. I’m not doing that again!
I’m definitely in a gloomy mood right now, but it’s absolutely not your fault, Natalie! Moreover, it’s probably a necessary stage.
During the recent weeks, my negative thoughts about almost anybody in the world had intensified. I considered all people (including single guys) evil, cunning and full of contempt towards me. I told myself: Well, and it’s all my fault. If only I gave them what they wanted/needed they wouldn’t treat me like that!
I’m not getting couselling right now (“lost” the old counselor due to an intercontinental move), but I guess what I’ve really been doing with those thoughts was shielding myself from my grief about momster.
If everybody in the world is bad and it’s due to my selfishness/lack of empathy, she can’t have been that bad herself, right? This way, I could maintain my fantasy of the “good mommy” hidden inside her, a good mommy that would have emerged if only I had treated her the right way.
Although her narcissistic brain is still a mystery to me (and always will be), I now know one thing for sure: A “good mommy” was nowhere to be found in there, and I’m grieving the loss of the “good mommy” like a death.
I sometimes cry like crazy at the moment, clinging to my stuffed animal, knowing that I get more support from a toy than I would ever get from momster. It’s hard for me, because I’m usually not depression-prone. I’d do anything I can to avoid depression and the feeling of helpnessness that comes with it. Thus I distract myself with obsessive-compulsive behaviors or think self-destructive thoughts.
It’s so hard to let go, even after all the work I’ve done. It’s almost a year since I started counselling, and almost two years since I found out about momster’s narcissism. What I’m probably going through right now is stage four of the “stages of grief” (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance), and it seems so hard to me. But I know I’ll make it somehow.
Gosh EllyB, your post brought tears to my eyes. Yes, we have to grieve the childhood we never had, the mother we never had. There was an awful experiment done years ago, poor baby monkeys torn from their mommas and raised with nothing but wire racks to cling to. Not suprisingly, the poor things were unredeemably insane and could never be rehabilitated. Nice thing to do to an animal right? But that is why your stuffed toys [and mine!] give us more comfort then the being that raised me ever could. And thankfully, we CAN unlearn our damage.
The thing that kept me so long with the last EUM was the fact that I thought (at age 39) he was my last chance saloon.
I still have ‘off’ days, but I’m getting better at being optimistic about my future prospects. I avoid internet dating and events that are very loaded (ie singles parties) because I know they play in to my fears. It’s human nature to get your hopes up about meeting someone before a singles party, but I found the crushing lows that follow (when you don’t meet someone) are just not worth it.
These are funny and I have heard myself and others say them verbatim…but speaking as a 40 something woman in NYC- this is the worst place to date! Men outnumber woman and they know it. That’s why you find so many players and AC’s here. The most oft heard quote from a NY woman: “all the good ones are taken, or gay” isn’t far from the truth. I got off the NYC dating merry-go-round and now get my thrills watching sex and the city…I’m not saying I’ll never love again, but I’ll have to leave here to do so!
meagan
I’ve not been to NY so am prepared to be shot down in flames but I think it can’t be worse than anywhere else.
Someone here was saying that University (really?!) is a bad place to meet men cos they’re all busy studying and no one wants to settle down. I hear that Alaska is a bad place to meet men (or is it women, I can’t remember). I live in London and been told it’s a bad place to meet men. Fearless thinks Scotland is a bad place to meet men (correct me if I misquote).
I doubt there’s any woman in the universe who is confidently saying “I meet suitable single men all the time, I’m fighting them off with sticks”. I don’t think anyone finds it easy, easy. But people meet, get married and have children all the time. Even in NY I’m sure.
You’ve only got to meet one man. Just one. But he’s not going to materialise on your sofa while you’re watching Sex and the City.
It’s perfectly fine to take time out from dating, to enjoy being single, for a short time or a very long time, or the rest of your life. But, and I am wrestling with this myself, we shouldn’t be HIDING ourselves away in isolation because we have given up hope. I’m very comfortable with solitude but I’ve noticed that even my fish like company. We are social animals, like it or not. So, I’m pushing myself a little, socialising and enjoying it more than I thought I would. (Still home alone on a Friday night though and loving it!)
@Grace: You make me laugh! I remember someone claiming the town I live in (far away from both NYC and London) was another “bad place for dating”. Do I need to mention I kept replaying this phrase in my head? Thanks for waking me up!
Btw, the guy who said that was from another town, attached, and had an one-night-stand with me. Yeah. So much about that.
I’ve personally discovered a few more cities that are “bad for dating”. Coincidentally, those were all the cities I ever lived in. Maybe the common denominator wasn’t the place after all, but me?
It’s so very important to get rid of this BS. Many thanks to Natalie for starting this very useful discussion!
Well said Grace. I’ve been to NYC and it was choc-a-bloc with people – never seen so many people in one place – I noticed some men too! lol.
Scotland is only a bad place to meet men if you’re name is ‘Fearless’ or you are housebound! lol. I live near Glasgow – a village compared to NYC yet there’s plenty of these men type people wandering around here too I notice, some of them even look quite harmless!
meagen19– I was born & raised in NYC, lived most of my life here. done a fair bit of travel and spent long periods (several months at a time) in other places. Sorry to say, I agree with you. I have no idea what the statistics are, but this is a place of extremes like no other, people flock here from all over the world. I’m sure that people everywhere deal with the same challenges in pursuit of love. but there’s something about life here, that makes everything more stressful and harder in countless ways. there are probably more egomaniacs per square mile here than say, in a quaint little town in Vermont, or a smaller city such as Phoenix or Denver. I think the formula for the Mr. Unavailable Equation applies: More Egomaniacs (+more $) (+more pressure to be #1) = More Assclowns & EUMs. Sure, people are people — but I have come to the conclusion that for *me*, when it’s possible to do so, I will leave this place, and go somewhere else where it’s not so insanely harsh 365/24/7. I hope by the end of this year, but don’t know if that’s realistic.
anoosh
ayup. I’m like you in the travelling and living elsewhere thing and I see the differences. There is a certain element of dysfunction here in NYC that gets internalized by men and women alike, and when 2 dysfunctional people meet…well, the outcome is predictable!
I think the reason we go back to our pain source is many times we believe that THEY are our last chance saloon.
That if we go back, AGAIN, that THIS TIME it will be different.
I know I am that way with the MM and it’s 10000x worse becasue I work with him. Chasing someone who is not worth any of my time just to be constantly rejected, when I have a perfectly nice guy who seems to be interested. The only problem is he is laid up with an infection in the hospital, and that’s put a snafu on our first “date”… so I’m limited to calling him once in a while and waiting for him to be released… (sounds crazy, but he really IS in the hospital LOL .. figures to be just my luck)
And because I’m impatient and need instant gratification and constant reassurance that I’m “enough”, I go back to the easy target, the one I see every day at work, and look to him to validate me, and he never does. And I know in my head how stupid it all is, but I STILL want to run to him and have him make it right and have him be who I thought he was, who I needed him to be, and I’m disappointed and let down EVERY SINGLE TIME.. so I know I have to STOP. and I don’t know why it’s so damn hard, but it is… but it’s getting better, I guess. Some days I feel strong and like I’m over it, and other days not so much and the pain is horrific. But it is getting better. And hopefully I will have a date with this other guy, get that FIRST DATE with him, in the not so distant future and he’ll be the great guy he seems to be!
I like this post,
In London, where so many people are here for opportunities and experience, it seems there is little time for stewing on a connection if another seems easier or more promising, sometimes you feel permanently on a speed date. Yet many people are lonely and desperate for an emotional connection. One of my girlfriend, 46, who is still waiting for Mr Right went on a speed date thing, and had 5 guys interested in her. She did not call any because they were younger ( from 4 up to 10 years, she looks 35 max anyway), not her type ( bank manager) and there was no point anyway. I told her she was being stupid because going on dates with guys was a sport that needs to be practiced to make perfect. If you have a type and don’t deviate, you can miss a gem.
The funny thing I swear is that the more real I have become real with my feelings and my emotions (neither doom scenario nor out with the fairies – the ones with the irrational exuberance), the more intolerant of bull-crap peddlers I have become while not necessarily becoming a bitch.
Men have the same problems and the same fears, straight or gay, they want as much love as us but they express their fears differently. I was out last night with a friend – gay, handsome, Will from Will and Grace, loaded with a great job, 4 holidays a year, stylish and with a love life from hell. He falls in love all the time, I cant keep up with names and they all seem to look alike. It never last. He is in love with this guy who played the hot and cold game but who has “finally broken up with his on/off boyfriend” announced in a text !!!!! . He asked me what he should do. I told him to come clean with your feelings, wait for an answer while refusing the hot & cold game. He gave me “ that is scary” and the gay excuse (I am too old to attract, he is 41 ) and a few straights male ones, I am too busy, my career is going well, I like my freedom, I don’t want to settle – from a man who told me for 3 hours that he is lonely and wants a relationship.
Lord this took me back. I used plenty of excuse, he would have love me if I were thinner, with a better job/ flat/ hair / boobs /less argumentative, if I had more ambition, more money in the bank – ok you get the gist. My dirty little secret is that I did not believe I was worthy of a decent loving relationship and fell for people who reinforced that belief . I was blind to people who genuinely liked me and could offer the relationship I dreamed of but was unconsciously terrified of getting
I’ve been reading posts here for two years and never posted until now. This is a great place to go when you feel down and need a boost. I am 47 and was married most of my life and now that I am divorced with two small kids, I feel glad to be on my own. I have dated every player/loser out there hoping for a relationship but just get frustrated in the process. I go out any chance I can with my friends and I do meet men but they ususally just want one thing. I’m over that type of man but find it hard to meet someone that I am attracted to that feels the same way. I don’t date people I work with so it’s hard to meet people. I’ve been told I’m very attractive and look like I’m 30. I’ve done the dating sites but most of what I get is men who just want one thing or men that look like they could be my father…lol
I’ve decided to just try the old fashion way (so far, it’s not working) but I have hope. I get very lonely at times because I am a social butterfly and miss having someone with me but I will not be with someone just for the sake of being alone. I sometimes feel that men who meet me think I’m some wild person because I have a very strong/outgoing personality. Well, I don’t want to be with someone who is intimidated by me…so I wait and hopefully the right person is right around the corner (or under a boulder and just needs a little help to see me) lol
I can definitely relate Sharon. I too have been married most of my adult life and am single at 43. I’ve been doing some dating online for a couple of months and have only met EUM’s to date. It’s a learning process and as I refine my expectations I’m continually eliminating large chunks of my already limited dating pool. I suppose it will all work out in the end, but the journey does feel a bit precarious at times, like today. At my worst, I’m wondering if I’ll ever have sex again, and then I remember that dealing with a bad relationship isn’t worth the temporal pleasure. Best wishes to all.
How odd… I’d just made a New Year’s resolution to accept that it’s never going to happen, or at least live my life as if it isn’t, and just go on to occupy myself with something constructive that I have more control over than “finding love.”
I have a colleague who found love at 60. She had a truly horrible marriage and was single for a long time but she and her partner have been very happy together for four years now. You should see her. She’s shining!
Where there’s life there’s hope.
Awesome post! So on point and definitely what I needed to hear today. Thanks!
Thank you, Intotouch, for reminding me that even in the senior years (I am also 60) that love can come.
I’m just coming out of a short, initially very thrilling, finally quite nasty relationship with a man with whom I first fell in love at the age of 15. NML’s take on the problems with the returning boyfriend are right on the mark.
When I was 24 and he asked me to marry him I said no without a moment of hesitation or doubt. I knew better what was right for me then than I did just recently! 35 years later, widowed and lonely, I looked him up on the Internet and thought after our first get-together that I’d finally found my soul-mate. What a horrible mistake that was. He’s a deeply disturbed person who at first hides it well, then slowly you get to see all the crap. Narcissistic, childishly hypersensitive, evasive, emotionally manipulative, did the hot/cold thing and dripfeed thing with me, has nothing good to say about his two ex-wives and is permanently estranged from two of his three adult children. Code reds everywhere, but I got caught up in the fantasy of my past and thought it would all lead to happily ever after anyway.
I have decided, with the incredible help of this website and all the wonderful people on it, that I will NOT allow this nasty experience to be my excuse for just giving up – no last chance saloon here. No, there aren’t as many fish in the sea at my age, but they are there – and the loving relationship I can have with myself is the most precious “catch” of all.
Oh boy Silverbee, sorry that happened to you. I had a similar experience with someone I knew more then 20 years ago. Only he looked me up, so, as I wrote previously, I fell into the fantasy of ‘I am the one that got away’. How wrong I was. How wrong I could be.
I never really knew someone I shared a history with would use me as an airbag, a fallback, an ego stroke etc. All of those things, and yet; nothing more then those things. He still looked great, blah blah blah and, at the time, I thought, finally my ship has come in. Turned out it was the Titanic.
Hey everyone, no idea where im meant to post this but here goes….
iv always gone for EUM, men with girlfriends etc… i dont know why? but i have also always jumped from relationship to relationship thinking “this might be it!” or “i need to hurry up for il get old and lonely then definitely noone will want me”
im currently in some sort of relationship, hes said we’re in one but i just dont feel it, i half think he said it just so id open my legs for him, because this weekend its been like trying to get shit from a rocking horse tryna get him to speak to me…
any advice on this situ? im going out of my mind =(
Hi Silverbee,
I’m so sorry about your experience with the returning childhood sweetheart. I had an encounter (few emails) with one a while back and I understand the fantasy. Natalie’s posts are spot on, as usual. I loved your comment: “No, there aren’t as many fish in the sea at my age, but they are there – and the loving relationship I can have with myself is the most precious “catch” of all”. At 52, I’m thinking that is the key at any age and then there is no such thing as the last chance saloon. I recieved an email from a 30-something student last week entitled “It’s Never too Late”. He is returning to school and thinks life has passed him by. The stuff we tell ourselves is amazing. Those internal tapes can be so destructively subtle. Thank you for your comments. You boosted my spirits! BTW, isn’t there an age limit on AC’s? Probably not…just saying!
Thank you NML for such intelligent and encouraging thoughts on an insidious preoccupation. Oh I so wish you had been around long ago. I feel I have wasted half a century on chasing useless men. I am 48 hitting 49. I am grateful for all your insights.
Intotouch, thank you so much for your post. You have given me hope! And kudos to your colleague for allowing herself to be open to love – even after a crappy marriage.
I’ve been attracted to EUMs and ACs most of my life, and been in “relationships” with some (including one that I broke off five days ago). Thanks to intensive therapy and this website, I have finally decided I need and deserve better – and it IS out there. And I know, after reading many of your stories, that I can find it. It’ll take some work, but I can find it.
Thanks again to all of you for sharing your stories, and to Natalie for her courage in documenting her journey and lessons learned. You have all shown me there IS life and real love out there – and we all deserve it.