Sasha asks: I have been involved for 4 years with a Mr Unavailable. Recently, I decided to end this relationship because he moved in with another woman he had an on/off relationship with.
He told me he didn’t understand why I couldn’t accept that he wanted to be with both of us. He told the woman he lives with the we are “friends” but that we have been involved in the past, and has even suggested that she and I be friends. This person does not even have custody of her 2 children and seems to have sacrificed everything in her life for him. He has done a multitude of other shitty things to me, so finally I told him we could no longer continue with our “relationship”. He was not the least bit upset.
It bothers me for some reason that he didn’t care. I am having a hard time letting go and sticking with the NCR. I text messaged him today, and he proceeded to ask me about the current person I am dating. I feel like a complete jackass for even keeping him in my life this long. I should have know better when he suggested I get pregnant so he would have to be in my life for the next 18 years. Any insight would help!
NML says: For a start, don’t feel like a jackass, tempting as that may be. We all make mistakes and women in particular find it very easy to see a best side to many because we’re more emotional and inclined to be compassionate.
You are bothered about the fact that he doesn’t care because you do care and it hurts to feel rejected. This is normal, however, your focus has to be on seeing this idiot for what he is – a selfish, inconsiderate, immoral man who has no respect for you, your feelings, or for the other woman who he is involved with.
She may be prepared to be with him on these terms – that’s not your problem.
He is offering you nothing and the fact that he offers you an arrangement like this shows how little regard he has for you because only someone who believes that you don’t think enough of yourself to say no, would pose this arrangement to you.
It is time to catch him off guard and show that you are not so down on yourself that you’d continue to be involved with the likes of him.
You have to ask yourself why you don’t want to let go because you have all of the evidence, are dating someone else, yet you want to hold onto this abysmally poor relationship with this guy. He has told you which way the land lies so going back is like saying, ‘I am happy with this. I don’t care about myself. I want to cause myself more pain’.
If anything, you should be thinking about how you got here in the first place so that you don’t find yourself there again. You should be asking yourself why you want to be with a man who treats you in this way because how he treats you is reflective of what you feel about yourself. The pregnancy comment shows what an insipid, irresponsible person he is and be thankful that you don’t have that tie with him and keep it this way.
He isn’t capable of caring – considering you know what his character is and what he is capable of, why are you surprised at how awful he is? This is your time to opt out and do hard time by cold turkeying. The other woman doesn’t matter – don’t focus on her as a way to distract from the real issue – the fact that he’s an assclown and you want to be with him/don’t want to let go. Get to the heart of why you don’t like or love yourself enough to recognise how unhealthy and inappropriate this is and you will be able to move forward.
On another note, this whole ‘rejection’ mallarky needs to be turned on its head as being ‘rejected’ by an assclown is used by many a woman as a reason to wallow.
What you need to realise is that the only way it could work on his terms is if you ‘accept’ his behaviour, which obviously can’t happen because it is not what you want, so actually, you’re rejecting him.
If being involved with a man means that you need to reject yourself, your boundaries, and your values, quite frankly, this ship can’t sail. You may try to sail, but you’re going to emotionally capsize.
If you’re busy wallowing in rejecting, and trust me, it is wallowing, you’re looking at things from a self-blame angle. The main cause of self-blame is obsessing because you’re obsessing about the how’s, why’s, when’s, and where’s but only looking at it from the perspective where you get to dislike yourself and remove his accountability.
Self-blame, obsessing, and wallowing is about failure to let go and begin the process of moving on. Whilst some of this is normal initially, if you continue this on an extended basis, it suggests that you don’t really want to be accountable for your own relationship experience and move forward.
Some people find it easier to be miserable because it’s familiar. Being miserable means you don’t have to do anything and yet you’d be surprised how focusing on you and treating yourself positively can make a huge difference.
Just because you know he’s an assclown doesn’t mean that you automatically shut off the feelings that you have. However, and it is a big, however, it is focusing on the knowledge that you know he’s an assclown and that you got out that pushes you to move forward.
If you want to ensure that you wallow, don’t move on, and create more pain for yourself, kick yourself whilst you’re already down, obsess about him, and try to analyse the woman he’s with. At some point though, you have to ask why you’re doing it to yourself because it’s not him inflicting the pain…it’s you. He’s already in another relationship because that’s what self-obsessed, no good, jackass, bozo, assclowns do.
It’s like mourning the loss of trash/rubbish – it’s no good for you, you know you don’t need it or want it, and it’s better out of your emotional house. Now you’re hankering for the assclown truck to return him to you and make everything hunky dory. If the trash comes back…it is still trash….
Cut contact and cold turkey it. The self-blame haze will pass if you focus on seeing him in a real light and commit to doing better by yourself.
Your thoughts?
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I would also like to say to Sasha that there is nothing normal about this man. This has nothing to do with you. People in general make mistakes and can do awful things to others and still be good people. However, anyone who finds it normal to flat out tell someone else that they do not understand why you can’t seem to deal with him wanting to be with two women.
While there is greater talk these days about humans not being monogamous by nature, society still generally does not accept open relationships as the norm. Perhaps your EUM should move to a country where having 7 wives is acceptable, because he’s not going to find that here. Do not let him sell you on the crumbs he’s feeding you. Asking for a man to be solely committed to you is quite normal. So please do not think this is you, normal people do not behave this way because if he they don’t like you, there is some underlying human decency that drives most people to be respectful or at least not complete assclowns who feel they have the right to bend society’s rules to fit their agenda.
Cut him loose! He’s selfish and arrogant for assuming he could be so lucky and deserving to have two women at his beck and call. Take a good long look at this guy… he’s no catch! You can’t have him it’s what makes him so appealing… but really let’s say that he came back and said he was wrong and wanted to be with you? Do you want this man raising your children? Are these the values of someone you want to be with in the long term?
This is simple. He is using you (and others) for sex and will continue to do so as long as he’s allowed. Stop enabling the situation and move on to someone who will be interested in you the person instead of you the sex object.
Sasha
My mouth dropped in amazement that he would even THINK to ask you this question. Did he expect you to reply in the affirmative and tell him that while he was there if he would kick the rest of your teeth in please?
NML is right – you can’t have contact with this man ever, for it would tell him that you enjoy sharing him, befriending his lover and watching your self-esteem and respect go through the door.
I don’t think you’re a jackass – just a woman in love with a man who doesn’t see her value. I found this part of NML very telling, for you and for the fool I was involved with:
“It’s like mourning the loss of trash/rubbish – it’s no good for you, you know you don’t need it or want it, and it’s better out of your emotional house. Now you’re hankering for the assclown truck to return him to you and make everything hunky dory. If the trash comes back…it is still trash”
*Stay strong.*
Hey Sasha,
You did the right thing and got rid of this fool. I liked how NML put it, that you are rejecting him, looking at the situation in this light places you at the center not him and puts you in control of you feelings. Don’t beat up on yourself, unfortunately these men are everywhere, so you can’t fault yourself too much for being with him. But now that you know he is a selfish, inconsiderate asshole with the emotional capacity of a wet sponge you must put him out of your life and stick to the NCR. It will be hard, but you can do it. It’s the best way to rid yourself of him. I also recommend throwing away momentos and pictures that may serve to remind you of him, deleting any e-mails or text messages or voice-mails that you may be harboring. Cold turkey and NCR is tough, but you got to rid your physical and emotional space of him so that you can focus on yorself and heal. As I’ve said several times before on this site, he is sooo not worthy of you.
I agree, the way he suggested that you got pregnant to keep him around was a mega-assclown stunt. Now, I actually AM pregnant by my EUM, don’t get me wrong, for me it’s a good thing, not perfect but I feel happy and confident, he feels pretty much the same, of course there are issues coming from him being an EUM and from being who he is, I was actually wondering if maybe we could explore the subject here? I don’t want to hijack Sasha’s post, and I’m in no way suggesting that anyone should do the same, just found it interesting that my EUM said almost exactly the same thing: that now he gets to be in my life forever!
Whether it’s an excuse for him to be around, as if he doesn’t feel the burden of taking the decision by himself or an excuse to act like an assclown without fearing I will kick his sorry ass to the moon, I think these guys are terribly deluded about their importance in our lives – the key is to get to the point of not needing them, not feeling rejected, don’t feel like you have lost him, cause you never really “had” him or, as NML put it, why feel bad about losing a piece of rubbish?
The NCR gets easier with practice. Soon it will feel more weird to contact than not to contact him, I promise!
I know woman who currently ‘shares’ her ‘friend’ with 2 other women. He finds it impressive that it doesn’t bother her and he can be so open with her about it.
He is the scum of the earth, and she thinks she is different to him, that he values her and cares deeply for her, and respects her.
She doesn’t seem to care that he is a master manipulator – that in this ‘relationship’ he is the one who has the narcissitic harem – and it is not a flattering club to be in. Even if she is the youngest and prettiest of the three women.
She thinks he is meeting her needs – but all he is doing is showing her how little she is willing to accept – and how little he is truly willing to give.
OUCH. I wish she would not find his behavior acceptable because she is starving for love…
Sane,
Why would you have a child with someone who is emotionally unavailable??? I don’t get it??
Sasha…Well he sounds like a real winner, trying to force a Ménage à Trois upon you and playing the “friend card” at the same time. OMG what a twat he is. It still boggles the mind to see how arrogant and self absorbed these asswipes are. Well he actually gave you an early Christmas present by presenting this situation to you. Think of it as a gift to yourself. You are saying NO to him. NO I won’t be treated like trash, NO you can’t have two women, NO I respect myself too much to play these stupid games with you and finally just plain NO.
Believe me once you have a month or two of NC under your belt you will feel so much better about yourself. Just be prepared that he may come back at you several times when you least expect it. DON”T respond to him in any way. I made the mistake of talking to my xEUM several months of NC, it set me back for weeks. As NML says, these men have an inner clock and know when to start bothering you again just when you’ve begun to heal.
Stay strong, keep NC and you will be a much happier, drama free woman in the long run. It won’t be easy, allow yourself to grieve, it’s natural when you give up someone you love, even an assclown.
You are empowering yourself by saying no to him. You are the strong one. You are the one rejecting him. Take strength in that!!!
Gaynor,
I didn’t plan to have a child with an emotionally unavailable man. Like none of us planned to have a relationship with one.
We’ve been “together” in an on and off way for the last 5 years, lived together for most of the time…ok, we talked about this, didn’t plan, it happened! Whatever his relationship with me is, and I didn’t have it figured out for long (and found this site way too late as well) – he is doing his part. His family is extremely supportive too. Time will tell if he can keep it up, I am not deluded, hopeful or whatever. Of course I wish it could be different. But I know I can walk away if he messes with me and – most important – he knows that too. And that was my point. We should never let ourselves get manipulated into staying with these men, whatever means they might try to use.
saneagain, remember that emotionally unavailable men can also have issues with fatherhood as far as being emotionally unavailable to their children…..I know because I was married to an EUM for 17 years and we have one son together who is 23 years old–but he still struggles with his relationship with his father to this day. Hopefully that won’t be the case with your EUM, but it’s something to keep in mind.
Thank you, FOI.
This post was just what I needed to hear today. I am struggling alittle as I just met a nice man who I have been talking with and went out with once. He seems to be emotionally available and treating me well so far. My issue is I’m beginning to think about the ex-EUM and the sexual connection we had…and wondering if I feel attracted to this new man…I think it is my emotional unavailability issues kicking up and having me focus on the physical instead of important issues like character, emotional availability and how the new one doesn’t push that button on me…anyway, I have to remember as NML says so eloquently, “trash is still trash.”
finallyseenthelight – Please, don’t look back. Almost everyone has a time in their past that they would like to relive. Look long and hard at what you would sacrifice if you try to turn back the clock – and also understand that it will never be the same as it was.
When we were young, many chased sex adventures, and thought that was the world of love. If we even looked at our grandparents, we thought they must have outgrown anything fun. But as we grow, we learn that those that are content together – chose a different goal. They picked a mate, and made a home and a family. They make what fun and frolic in their lives that they can – partly for themselves, but also to please their partner.
So, please, continue down the path toward joy and satisfaction, and keep the danger and risks (excitement) to a minimum.
Sasha,
It seems you still feel his is your boyfriend. Even though you have tried No Contact, you chose to accept him back into your life. The first time you met and accepted him as a dating partner, you made a mistake. You wanted a life-mate, obviously, since you count the relationship in weeks and months, not hours. The second time, now, that you picked this guy you know, for dead certain sure, is ignorant, amoral, and disrespectful, this isn’t just a simple mistake. You didn’t overlook subtle signs that he was a problem, you didn’t fall for a cute smile or sharp car.
You deliberately and knowingly selected a dysfunctional man for an intimate partner. This is a pattern of behavior for you. Something in you, something in how you love yourself (or not), something in how you respect yourself (or not) makes you feel a need for a man like this in your life. You keep picking an inappropriate mate-candidate.
The first step is what NML and the others say – you have to get this guy out of your life. You need to choose of people with good character to be around. You need to be respectful, honest, honorable, and compassionate yourself. And you need to avoid those, like this bozo, that cause you harm by deed and by example.
You asked why leaving him didn’t bother him. That one is easy. He doesn’t care about you. At all. He may enjoy time with you, sometimes. He may think about you, between sex adventures, but not enough to visit you and maintain a healthy relationship. He is so focused on himself and his life, that what you do or don’t do isn’t important to him.
And that hurts. You are finding you want respect from your partner. But you will have to have a partner that respects you, for that to happen. You want a partner that you respect, and cherish – just as he respects and honors you. That means deliberately choosing a man with good character, disciplined, good emotional bonds to family, friends and at work. You need to pick a man that is available for a relationship, that is willing to make room in his life for a relationship.
You mentioned he wanted you to be friends with his other sex adventure player. From what I read, multiple partners in a stable relationship (not open to outsiders) can work really well. But the multiples that work – are started by the women. The women decide to share a guy, and then invite him. Any time a guy tries to organize a stable, committed multiple, things come apart. Because a guy, no matter what he thinks he is doing or says, is constructing a sex adventure, and not a family.
And that is the point. You are at the point that what you really want is to build a family, and you need a partner to make a home come true. For a home, you need a family man, not a perpetually dating sex adventurer. Your guy is dating. He isn’t building a family, he isn’t nurturing, respecting, or caring for a mate. He has no clue nor goal nor concept of anything beyond dating. That isn’t going to change. He will always be an inappropriate candidate for life-mate.
When you mention the other women he sleeps with, I know you think about how he is denying you his emotional presence and physical comfort. But are you also thinking about how many women you want to sleep with, second hand? If he is talking pregnancy, just how many women is he likely to get pregnant at the same time? Are each and every one of his sex partners clean of disease, and are all of the partners these ladies have encountered also free of disease? Stuff happens. By turning away from him, away from any attraction you may feel to him, you might just be saving your own life.
Luck!
Finally,
Don’t think so much and let things happen naturally. It sounds like you’re putting way to much thought into these men, which in the end will sabotage the prospect of a healthy, happy relationship. Maybe you’re not ready for a real relationship yet?????
Wow! Just when I thought I’d heard it all, this assclown takes the cake! Not only does he ask you to be okay with this kind of arrangement, he has the balls to make the pregnancy comment. He so gets the assclown of the century award! NML is right…cold turkey no contact. God knows it ain’t easy, but it does get easier and easier and easier. I’m convinced the NCR saved my life, not to mention my sanity. Sticking to it will be one of the best things you ever did for yourself.
Hmmm. Seems kind of easy to decide what to do doesn’t it?
This, I think, is an really good example of how an assclown pushes and pushes until you are the one that must reject. He can see that there is something wrong if you’ve been sticking around up until this point (I mean, after all, having an open relationship was probably not discussed on the first date..). I think lots of assclowns do this – push you a little farther each time into being someone you aren’t, asking you to compromise your values, all the while the lower you get the less they respect you/worse they treat you (because to them they can see you have no self respect) – so when you finally reach the end of the rope – the breaking point – they can say to everyone else “oh man, she was the worst – she even agreed to let me have two girlfriends! What a freak!” Because they probably can’t believe they are getting you to go along with this stuff. An EUM from a long time ago was cheating on me with my BOSS…(a woman) and wanted to try and get us into a three-way relationship (we all worked together). That was my breaking point, and to think about it now makes me cringe
BBP – bang on, they push you & push you with their bad behaviour until all boudaries are gone and they can basically just get away with what they want – I caught my ex eum in bed with his ex wife 2 days before we were meant to go on holiday together!!! I was devastated but guess what??…………………..I forgave him and took him back!and then in doing so – set the tone for the whole relationship, he must of been thinking ‘jesus if she took me back after this, I can do anything’ and he did and I think in the end he didnt even care, he had treated me so apallingly he couldnt even be bothered trying anymore, he wasnt even sorry when I caught him e-mailing another women saying he was single whilst I was i bed recovering from an operation!! god I could cry even just writing this……
Yes Never.., after you’ve given up enough of your dignity and values and they know they can do whatever they want, they just stop even pretending to be a decent person – that’s when you cross over to the dark side and think “what happened to all that love and romance I got in the beginning?” It’s long gone, and you try to get it back by doing whatever he wants. It’s like him asking – “hey, you were ok with this (lets say an open relationship)…how about this (an open relationship with your sister)?” and if you agree, inside they’re like “really?!…ok how about this..(your sister and your mother)?” each time setting the bar sickeningly lower. And on the flip side, if you’re not ok with what they’re doing, you’re a bi*ch, controller, prude, inflexible – doomed to be cast out on the other end of the spectrum. There is no winning – it’s all very crazy making, self esteem-destroying and there is no good outcome either way as long as he is in the picture. The only outcome is you rejecting him – on one end of the scale or the other -, as NML says, because there is really no rock bottom for these guys. Them rejecting us is indeed us standing up for not being ok with being treated like crap.
BBP,
How did he explain being in bed with the ex? And how long had you been dating at the time?
Man does this article hit it dead on. What everyone is saying about an EUM having no respect for you. An ex-EUM I date before my current ex-EUM was cheating on me and gave me and STD and I STILL stayed with him, even though I knew he was alright lying to me, because I just had to catch him with my own eyes. I finally did though, and he had the nerves to make it look like I was the crazy one and everything. I was so humiliated when I looked back to think how I allow this person to truly play me out. Once you start accepting that type of behavior it just gets worse. Once more the relationship is as good as dead, because they recognize that because you’ll put up with the crap they’re heaping on you, they themselves could never be with you because of that. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type of situation, and there is no winning with them.
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BBP…..your posts are so dead on. In the beginning it’s all love and romance. Then they start pushing us to lower our standards, say on sex. They may have some kinky behavior that we’ve never experenced, that in the beginning of the relationship we wouldn’t tolerate but as time goes on, the romance part starts to fade and the kinky stuff takes over more and more. I found myself being OK with things I would never have accepted before. Not that there is anything wrong with experimenting but it’s not even about that. It’s like they want to use you for their own sexual pleasure. At that point all you have to be is female with a pulse, you become their object. They no longer respect us because we don’t respect ourselves. It’s like de-evolving or something. I thought it was all cool for awhile but when he started to cheat I realized he wanted us both. It didn’t matter about love or caring it was about HIM. He got off on being wanted by two women. Having two women fighting over him. All the drama. My god, it’s almost like they’re another species or something. Thank god I got out, I wish it had been sooner.
I agree and I feel for you ladies: there’s just one think I don’t agree with. When BBP and Nikki say that with them “you are damned if you do (accept their behaviour) and damned if you don’t”. I don’t agree because there’s everything to gain in not accepting their bad behaviour.
This is why: I think that men are fundamentally and biologically like kids when it comes down to women and relationships. I know I know this will stir lots of complaints but follow my line of thoughts. They are like kids because they are moved by instincts and basic needs, more than women. Like kids, they need rules and bounderies. Have you ever seen unruly kids? they are rude and disrespectful, noone bothered setting up bounderies for them, and they do crave rules. But as soon as someone does, they start respecting them, being a parent or a teacher etc
Same goes with men. If you don’t say no and always say yes, they become like unruly teenagers and won’t respect you.
So if you start saying “no” according to your values and standards of what is acceptable and what isn’t, at first they will stamp their feet and complain and bitch about you, but like kids once they realise that you don’t budge, they will start to appreciate and respect you. This doesn’t necessarily mean that they will comply but at least they will know that they can’t mess around with you any longer and that’s your way or the highway and if it’s going to be the highway… well… good riddance.
My ex boyfriend wasn’t a major arse, never was, but i didn’t respect myself therefore he wasn’t attracted to me or in love with me. Really, how can you love someone who has no fundamental respect for themselves? Does any of you?
And I don’t even think that we can truly respect others if we don’t respect ourselves, at least i can speak for myself and say that it was more difficult to respect my man’s bounderies or anyone else’s when I didn’t have any for myself or when i didn’t respect myself. (I hope this makes sense).
Nilondoner
Your post makes a lot of sense – if you are with a normal man who is in touch with himself. Normal men who love their women will treasure them and try to hold on to them. Yeah, there will be problems, but they try to make things work. EUM’s don’t do this as it’s never their fault.
Most of my relationships were with normal men and we got along fine. There was communication, romance, respect, laughter, it was great. We just grew apart. When I met the EUM he blew hot and this seemed like another healthy relationship. Then he started to disrespect and disappoint me. In my past realtionships whenver their was a problem we’d talk it through and explain why it hurt and try to make things better. Naturally, I did the same with my new guy when problems arose and to my shock, it didn’t work. So I tried harder.
When I realised that he was NOT like most normal guys and emotionally unavailable, I bailed. My point is, you can’t compare apples and oranges or normal men and EUM’s. What will work with a “normal” man has NO EFFECT on these EUM’s.
My experience with the EUM and from reading these posts is that these men have no feeling. You’re crying? No emotion. Angry? So what. Scared? Giggle.
They can’t connect to themselves, farless anyone. I truly cared about my EUM and I demonstrated this in word and deed. As soon as I realised that things weren’t quite right, I pressed the brakes on the relationship and made it clear what I would and would not accept. He continued his nonsense and I bailed.
That relationship was doomed no matter what. When I refused to lower my standards or accept his rubbish, there were problems. If I chose to overlook them, there were still problems. If I showed him love and understanding, he treated me like crap. If I was mean to him, he treated me like crap. I maintained my values and standards and bailed out and now I FEEL like crap. So yeah, damned if you do and damed if you don’t.
I find solace in knowing that I won’t feel like crap for long and that I’m getting over him.
This is exactly what I meant: he started to direspect you and disappoint you, you talked it through, didn’t work and you tried harder?!?! Why!?!? Why did you try harder?
This is a mistake we all make, we reward bad behaviour with love and understanding, thinking that we will love them into loving us. The operative word is “reward”. We REWARD bad behaviour with love, of course they will behave even worse next time if what they get in return is love and understanding,
This shows lack of selfrespect in my opinion. And lack of self respect generates less respect and more bad behaviour. That’s how the vicious cirlce begins. What they see is that if they behave badly, they get something good: love, understanding, attention etc.
Walking away (like with dogs) when they misbehave or disappoint you, will generate one of two reactions as i said before: 1) they care enough to change their behaviour; 2) they don’t care for whatever reason (unavailability, assclowness, lack of feeling etc) and they won’t change their behaviour and that way you will have two results 1) you retain self respect, love and dignity; 2) you will naturally select the right man for you.
sorry to be harsh, I know things are not this easy when it’s about feelings but so far for me this theory is the only one that works and that answers my questions.
Nilonder
I don’t think you’re being harsh at all. Your post seems to suggests that at the first sign of trouble, the tiniest inkling of a problem in a relationship to end it and that talking about it/ trying to work things out may be seen as a “reward”. I don’t agree. (exception: if you are being hit, leave now!)
When my nephew does something naughty, he is warned first, maybe twice, then he is punished. I don’t view speaking to him about his bad behavior as a reward. Same with the EUM. With my dog, I tell her to sit. If she doesn’t on the first try I don’t wack her/walk away. She’s told a second time, and failure to comply is met with punishment.
The EUM did rubbish, I spoke to him about it. He did it again. After the second time, I quit. I don’t see me trying to salvage a relationship as a giving him a reward. My point is that with men that truly care about you can establish boundaries and values and standards that they will respect. Your advice is bang on with normal men.
EUM’s don’t care, they don’t get it and they ignore your values and insisting that you be treated correct will get you no where with them. It’s their way or the high way. So, with EUM’s, it’s damned if you do and damed if you don’t. The relationship was dead on arrival!
I think the important thing in both of our posts is TO KNOW WHEN TO QUIT with the relationship. You don’t want to be too hasty and quit when he may actually be a decent guy who made a mistake, niether do you want to stick around and waste time on an assclown. I think the problem is that after discovering a man is a clown, women STILL stick around.
I do agree with you though, that you should never reward bad behavior because it sets the tone of the relationship. That’s why I bailed after round two of his nonsense.
Myalmostlover & Nikki – we were all three with the same type of EUM…the sex addict. I knew I was constantly lowering myself to do more and more things that I normally wouldn’t be cool with, but then I was afraid that I would lose him if I didn’t – and he basically implied as such. I thought it was cool and that maybe I shouldn’t be so up tight about sex. Then later, when I found out about his other woman, I actually thought that being cool with whatever in bed would make me the more attractive option…oh what a fool I was – I should have been walking out the door! And Nikki – I feel your pain. Mine gave me HPV. I found out after we stopped contacting each other. It was humiliating (not to mention involving a painful procedure and now the black cloud of potential cervical cancer). But I’ll bet you if we had still been seeing each other during the “good” phase, I would have gone back. I was that far gone. Yikes, huh?
BBP
Just read your last post and that is exactly how things were with my ex (minus as STD’s) – only let’s add this twist to it… major dysfunction on his part. All the time I was patient with HIS sexual issues, he was out trying to screw other women. Yikes
BBP I have delt with similar. We had been seeing eachother for a month when he suggested i get on birth control. I hestitated because I thought it would be for him more then myself. I did it anyways because I wanted to make him happy. After three months of dating my EUM i found out I had clymidia. . .I was furious and when I spoke to him about it he claimed it had to be from someone else because he had only been with me. What a liar! I will never actually know who it came from but I was manipulated into staying because he said he could get past what happened and move on. He would use it as an excuse to not trust me constantly and I ended up always defending myself. He also pushed my boundries in bed and I did things with him I would have never considered. He would say how unattractive it was if girls did not like stuff like that and I compleatly bought it and complied. He would tell him I was the only woman that could turn him on. . .I knew his body and what he liked best. . .so what the hell was he doing out there fooling around and sleeping with other women?!?!?! Being an assclown I guess. It got to the point where I could no longer ignore what was happeneing and had to leave. I remember once telling him that “There was absolutly no point in being his number one girl, if there was a number 2,3 and 4 girl right behind me”. . .I have been 12 days no contact. . .I miss him and have so many mixed emotions. . .comming on here is really keeping me grounded and reasuring my choice to leave.
Yeah BBP, mine was fooling around on me and gave me clymidia, lied right through his teeth in front of my face saying that it must have been from his previous relationship months before, but we’d been having sex for a couple of months at that point and I was fine during that time, but then suddenly I had problems and went to see my gyno, and boom. I almost started crying on the phone with her. I know my body, and i”m hyper sensitive to any change in things going on, so I knew immediately that he’d started something on the side. Turns out he was screwing some chick from his job in the backroom on break. I later caught her and him together at his place after he’d told me he’d be out with the guys that night. I’d never felt so stupid, when I think about all I did for this guy and how he treated me like complete dumpster waste! He’d lied and told me he had to work on his birthday, when the truth was he was spending his birthday with the coworker, and I got regulated to the side. A month after him, I knee jerked myself into my current state of crappy relationship for three years with my latest mr. EUM. I’m just glad that I’m now out of both of those relationships and now working on myself. Loving these guys is just way more than I can take anymore.
BBP – you are SO dead-on w/ your comments. My ex-assclown was too a sxx addict. You’re so right that they push you further and further down until they don’t even care to fake any ounce of decency anymore. It started out with me accepting that he has a gf and I was just his FWB. From there, the friendship part quickly faded and it was just the physical. From there he began suggesting that we get a 3 some going (this never came through). Then he told me about meeting and sleeping with another girl. I felt devastated at first, but I accepted it, and so he knew he could sleep w/ others and I wouldn’t leave him. After him and his gf split, I was still just the “object” and never became his gf.
He’d do a number of things to lower my self esteem, by telling me that Im not that great looking and that our sxx, though it started out as the best hes ever had, is now boring. He’d poke fun at my career, my friends, everything. He’d tell me Im aging, and that guys wont like me anymore. On and on.
He was also so manipulative, he turned everything around on me, how I was the liar, how I was too annoying so he couldn’t be w/ me, how Im bitchy and Im not the type of girl he likes, at the same time constantly telling me that so-and-so is his dream girl, how he sees so many beautiful women out there each day while never giving me compliments anymore (though he used to). I felt so bad about myself that every time i was out on the streets, I’d look at other women (the “type” he liked) and wonder what I lacked, why I wasnt good enough for him to just hang out w/ me. I got so down on myself.
He still comes around, telling me all of the new sxx adventures he’s had recently, and literally asking me to be on that rotation. I look back and laugh now, but at times I’m still boiling with anger and wish I got out from the get go.
Jesyca, why do you even still talk to this douche bag? He’s such a jerk!
Girls, thank god we have each other! The craziest part about all of our stories is that I know, or at least I can tell, that we are all smart, reasonable women that would never have forseen getting ourselves into such horrible situations. I mean, I’m not some kind of girl that goes home with a different guy every night. I’m smart and successful, and I can tell that everyone else here is of like minds. I frequently thought as I was going through this that if this was one of my girlfriends telling me the same story I would have had no problem telling them to RUN away asap. This site has shown me that while maybe I didn’t need to go through the whole ordeal, I did need to realize that I should treat myself like I treat my best friends – with respect and love.
Oh and Nikki – I totally started crying on the phone with the gyno too. Never did I ever think I would get a STD in my life. And him turning it around on you – uhhhh. I’m shaking my head in agreeance and disgust for you. My clown was just the same.
I swear, if I didn’t know better it would seem like we all went out with the exact same guys! I felt the same way BBP. I’d never had a STD in my life, since i’d always been super careful about safe sex, and even now I’m ten times even more careful. When I confronted him about it, he said maybe it was me who gave it to him! I hadn’t slept with someone for six months before him, and I wasn’t the one sneaking around! These guys are unbelievable. I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about all the crap we put up with in the past from these losers. They will push you to lower your boundaries and standards and then tell you later they can’t be with you because of that. Talk about crazy.
What can I do to redeem myself now? To make it feel like he didn’t “win?” He took advantage of my naivety, used me like an object then moved on to more girls. He got the sex that he wanted, but Im left w/ a lesser version of myself. How can I not be the loser in this case? I’ve cut contact, but how can I get over the fact that he so used and abused me in the past and got away w/ it? Im so angry some days (like today). I cant get past the anger and the injustice of it all.
Jesyka, I think you have to look at today as a new day. He might have won, or beaten you, or got away with crap yesterday. You can still choose whether he even gets to play today.
Just walk away from yesterday.
Your experiences, from reading and interacting here on Baggage Reclaim, to your experiences with him, make you who you are. Don’t look for redemption for what happened to you. Choose to life respectfully, trustingly, and honestly with respectful, trusting, honest people. And pick someone to love from people of character.
Yes, you traded sex and respect and dignity for closeness – and still didn’t get anything you needed. It comes down to something as simple, and as terrifyingly difficult, and deciding to change. Don’t let superficial things distract you – don’t avoid the bar he hangs out at, don’t avoid guys that wear the same jacket he does, or drives the same car. Instead avoid everyone at all – that doesn’t respect you for who you are. You might need a counselor to help sort out your needs and values. That is OK. He has been performing amateur emotional “training” for far too long.
Who we are today is a sum of all the choices we made in the past. That is true for all of us. We might regret what we chose to do, who we chose to listen to in the past. But the only way to change is to understand why we chose as we did, and choose better next time. “I was stupid” isn’t a helpful diagnosis for regretted decisions. We need to know, did I pick him because he was there? Because he smiled? Because he offered me promises and I believed him? Because I didn’t understand his disrespect? Because I was excited to be riding in a car like that?
The actual reasons we are attracted to someone are seldom important – unless they are too superficial. Staying with someone an hour, a week, a month – that is long enough to find out this is a mistake, to run into walls and disappointments and disrespect. Staying after that takes bad choices.
Don’t look for redemption. Look for freedom from the mistakes of the past.
BBP….yes we were dealing with sex addicts. It’s something that creeps up on you and suddenly you’re sucked into their sick little world. I remember thinking he doesn’t say I love you so much anymore, now it’s just about kinky sex. Don’t want to get too explicit but you know women love the romance. I have no problem with getting a litte kink on once in awhile but if you’re always doing the kinky it cheapens the relationship. That’s how it was in the end for us, just sex without the romance. It makes me sad to think of it Then he brought another woman into our relationship when he no longer respected me. He was cheating away and lying, lying to my face. It was all dead in the water by then. NML is so right. You have to establish boundries in the beginning, enforce your values and never allow any man to compromise them. I learned a very hard lesson from this experience but only after I ended it and walked away. To this day he’s still out there trying to contact me…even after all these months.
Jesyca- I have had those very thoughts. . .I was so angry that he manipulated me into a sex life that was compleatly geared towards his pleasure, I was so eager to please him and then he ended up sleeping around anyway. I was running this morning which I compleatly recomend to all over you. Working out along with this site has really been theraputic. . .I can get out all my pent up feelings and feel really good when im done. All of you should take up regular exersice its the best cure for a broken heart i can think of. But back to the principal. . .I thought as i ran “you know he may have beaten me down emotionaly and won this round. . .treated me so poorly i had to give in and give up on him. . .but i will never give up on myself. . .and because I left him I have the opertunity to find a real deep and meaningful relationship. . .so I will win in the end because I will have a more full life”. Just know that not only is this guy’s life going to be sad because he will never have a mutual loving and caring relationship but most importantly he is REALLY pathetic and sad because he will never have it with a woman as spectacular as you!
Jesyka, please don’t beat Yourself up over this. Many women on this site, including myself have been or are where you are, kicking ourselves in the arse for it. For me it took the last assclown to help me realize and ask myself, how was I contributing to the situation. This EUM was not the first but will be the last, every man I was ever with was a EUM, narcissistic a**hole and believe me there is a long and numerous history of them in my life. I also remember discussing with girlfriends after my numerous, drama ridden breakups, “what, do I have abuse me written on my forehead?” In actuality I did and here’s why…
I was never given the tools or for that matter, ever taught what boundaries were, I didn’t have any, I didn’t know how to match actions with words, sex was my tool to try and keep a man, there was never a foundation to begin with. Although I do have my own personal values I never incorporated them into a relationship, I didn’t know how, do you? I feel like a little girl learning how to date and what a relationship really means and I am 53 years old. I am now in counseling, I couldn’t continue living this way.
I am now learning what boundaries mean, how to incorporate my values into relationships going forward and being a little bit vunerable, letting someone get to know me and not what I look like naked. Asking the right questions up front and when it is Safe to have sex with a man and when it’s not.
I am just in the beginning of this journey, there are many demons that I have to slay and many layers of Fear that I have to peal off but I will say that I am learning and committed for the long haul. Read NML’s post today about the Fear factor.
Stay involved with these blogs, you’ll get a lot of support, read Natalie’s book or surf around this site for the many blogs and topics that address how you are feeling, I have read and reread many of them more times than I can count.
This is not easy and it hurts, really I know, but it will get better…..Gail
I’m glad I came here today.. I was stupidly missing mr EUM and was going to call … but again I’m reminded of his boast to me “I can have sex with two women” I got out cos I didn’t want to be one of them… anyway I’ll stick to no contact so thank you who have posted it certainly helped me …
Wow! I wish I read this before I broke my no-contact rule this am. I am waking up every evening in dreams over him. I have joined a 12 step program, al-anon, to help me recover my own loss of self-respect and self-love. MY EUM is a total sex addict, and I too belive that I became one in this relationship, at first I thought I enjoyed it as much as he did, but then I realized how ashamed I am for the way I acted out with him. I am a successful 43 year old, own my home, have a college education, but still cant get enough “brick in the heads”, to release and finally let go. He has cheated on me the entire relationship, trying to manipulate the whole time, by lying and saying it was my own insecurities and jealousy, and he is sick of it. I acted as a detective and only then sometimes, would he admit is wrong doings. He would have sex with me for hours, and then go and meet another woman. He is addicted to strippers and young girls in their 20s. Portraying himself as quite the catch and available. By the way he is 46 years old. During our relationship, I became extremely isolated to my friends and family, and eventually lost a job due to my uncontrollable ability to stay focused and not live in the pain. Today, I am doing all I can to treat myself with self-love and respect, but I still am feeling the hole that was left. I am spiritual and have god in my life, and not out there looking for a mortal to fill the painful loss. It is so hard and I have been crying non-stop for 6 weeks. I am understanding how I got here, but why am I still having slips? Why do I want him to still want me and speak to me when I know how unhealthy he is for me? I am at a quest to truly get to the root of these answers. I also know that I FELT loved by him, so often, and we did share a lot of wonderful memories. But he is a Jeckyll and Hyde, and I know I deserve better than the monster. Only wish that the pain will subside. (I went 2 1/2 years without speaking to him at one point 8 yrs ago, but I truly had missed him everyday) What is wrong with me that I cant let go for good?
One last thing. He has always told me that I am the only woman that he has ever been in love with. That he never knew what love was before me. He shared with me so many intimate details of his life, now I wonder if any of them were true. I really am feeling so lost. I wish I didnt feel like I wanted to run to him to make me feel better. I have stayed away for 6 weeks, but it has been torture. Im feeling the loss of the dream.
Tiffany, That’s all it was, a dream.
12 years of a dream. ALl my hopes and plans falling out from under me. Now to old to have a child, and feel like I wasted so much time. I cry as I write this, because so much of what I wanted was wrapped up in him. Wish I didnt miss him or what we did have that was good.
Twelve years??? Was he EU the entire time???
Tiffany, you went 2.5 years without talking to him? Did you get back in touch with him or did he get in touch with you?
Tiffany,
What is the dream? This man is a sex-addict and has cheated on you over and over, I think you’re confusing love for addiction to this man. We cannot make our lives about them, or we lose ourselves completely. How much of the time were you actually happy in the relationship, if you’re playing detective most time it must have misery??
I think it is a great move to take a twelve-step program, b/c it is obvious you have some serious self-esteem issues or you would have been able to see this animal for who he is.
Keep posting on the site, it has helped many see the light.
hi all,
My EUM gave me an STD also, Herpes to be exact. And he of course denied ever having it implying that I might have gotten in somewhere else. God he was an asshole. That’s why it’s so important to let these men go once you realize that he has no problem with hurting and disappointing you b/c if you don’t you can run the risk of getting sick. I used protection too, but as we all know no protection is 100% effective. I agree with Cynnie, these men are not normal b/c they have no capacity to show or give love. they are dead emotionally and only interested in their own needs. the best thing to do is leave them alone, for your sanity and for your life. They are sooooo not worth you.
Hi ladies (and Brad)
Thanks to all of you for your support. I was initially so embarrased to be asking for advice on a situation that I knew was wrong. I suppose thinking with the head and the heart are 2 different things. Since emailing NML for advice, I have been able to maintain NC. It wasnt as horrible as I expected. It was actually a relief not walking on eggshell, waiting for him to do or say the next horrible thing. Was I sad? yes. Hurt? a little. Empowered? Absolutely! Brad, Thanks for giving your perspective from a male stand point. Very enlightening. I’m now doing things that make me happy, and letting go of things that don’t. I have a 4 yr old son, and I dont want him getting the idea that treating women this way is acceptable. I also have been doing some couseling with my father, who is at the root of my self esteem issues and involvement with EUM’s. Forgiving myself was a huge step. Thanks again for all your positive comments!
Sasha,
Stay Strong!!!