Beth asks “I ended things in mid-November after two months of dating an emotionally unavailable man. He pursued me ardently throughout the whole time we were together, lavished me with romance, talked about marriage, kids, moving in together, and couldn’t peel himself off of me each time we met. He finally told me he was in love with me, and I told him I felt the same, so I decided to see if he wanted to get a little more serious.
He said he couldn’t possibly be in a relationship right now because “I would hurt him first”. I soon came to realise I had a commitment-phobe on my hands. He then told me he had been dumped by his fiance 10 months earlier, and had very little faith in relationships.
I cut off all contact several weeks after we broke up, but since then, he has emailed me repeatedly and gone against my wishes. I read the first few emails, and he goes on and on about how madly in love with me he is, etc., tries to get me to be “just friends” with him, says his life sucks without me and needs to have me in his life in any way he possibly can. He’s basically obsessing and refuses to let go.
I continue deleting his messages and have blocked his email. Do you have any other suggestions for me? I don’t understand much about commitment phobia, but I did a little reading and it seems like it’s a very serious fear–I know it’s not my problem, but it could help me move on if I understood more about the nature of this phobia and what I can expect from someone in this mindset (so I can arm myself!). I thought he would leave me alone, but obviously I was wrong so any insight is appreciated.”
The thing you need to understand here is the commitment-phobe doesn’t commit to anything – so none of his behaviour is unusual in that context because he doesn’t stake himself on an outcome either way. Instead, he flip flaps and messes with other people’s lives and emotions…like yours.
Until the moment that you commit to what they’ve been suggesting, they’re happy because in their mind they haven’t committed to anything at that point. But if you actually believe what they’re asking and commit to their suggestions, this is where the problem arises because when you do this, it suggests that you expect, need, or want something from them which sets off their panic button. Suddenly you start hearing ridiculous excuses that weren’t around when they were wooing you…
Don’t get me wrong; being dumped by his fiance and feeling a bit ambivalent about relationships for a while is understandable however, the entire two months you were both together, he had been dumped by his fiance then too and he wasn’t so devastated or off relationships that he didn’t pursue you or blow smoke up your bum telling you feelings and intentions that he had no intentions of delivering on!
You’re trapped in a game that you will lose at if you engage. Yes his commitment is a very real fear but to be solely focused on that issue would miss the point and have you seeing the trees instead of the wood. Obviously I can’t say how long he’s had commitment issues and whether they’ve specifically arisen out of his breakup but the core problem here, aside from his lack of commitment, is that he is not over his previous relationship, he has excess emotional baggage, doesn’t have both feet in the relationship, and may even still be emotionally attached to his ex.
Fundamental foundations for a relationship to progress is that while we all have a little baggage (of the hand baggage variety), you don’t start relationships when you’re emotionally unavailable, unwilling to commit, clearly have issues with relationships, and may still be emotionally tied to your ex. A sign that you’re ready to be in a new relationship is when you’re not emotionally tied to your ex in either a romantic or negative way – you need to be over them, the relationship, and ready to move on.
To continue to engage with him would be like chucking your energy into the abyss. It would also be a sign if you try to fix, heal, and help him that you may have your own issues to deal with.
He’s not obsessed with you; he’s obsessed with the idea of not ‘losing’ again plus if anyone is going to do the rejecting here, it’s got to be him because his ego is too ‘fragile’ to accept that someone isn’t prepared to put up with his BS.
You let him back in your life on his terms and you’re essentially being demoted and he’s pulling a classic move where he blows hot, cries wolf, manages down your expectations and starts chasing you again to re-balance things, only this time you end up on lesser terms.
You can’t just slip slide from talking about marriage, kids, moving in together (maybe a little quick 2 months in although it is different strokes for different folks) to ‘let’s be friends’ territory – talk about a frickin’ anti climax!
A big sign of a man with poor intentions is one that talks big but proves to be all big talk and no action. Dodgy men do tend to be very quick out the gate to pursue and talk out their backsides and the OTTness is actually a red flag that no doubt gets proven when they pull the rug out for under your feet. Also these men don’t have any regard for anyone but themselves, so they disregard your wishes and make contact because their needs and desires always take precedence.
His problem existed before you, it exists now, and it’s not your responsibility to solve his problems – it’s your responsibility to recognise the myriad of red flags here, enforce your boundaries and opt out, because you won’t be making a silk purse out of a pigs ear here…
You sound like you have good inner strength and the key is to accept the truth of his actions, not of his words. The guy doesn’t know his arse from his elbow but like in a lot of these relationships, you don’t need him to explain anything now because you need to trust your instincts, process what he has done, and act upon it.
These men do run out of steam, especially when it becomes clear that 1) you have boundaries and 2) that to be involved with you they have to commit and that it can’t be on their terms. Where they don’t run out of steam is if you give any indication that you’re willing to let them marginalise you into a different position. Stick to your guns, don’t second guess yourself, and remind yourself that it’s better that you know now, and have the option to run.
Really, short of getting legal on him (which becomes necessary if it crosses into harassment), the key things here are to stick to No Contact because that means you don’t engage, which means they run out of steam.
Your thoughts?
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.
Add to favorites
Perhaps I’m a bit slow but why is it necessary to tell the woman he loves her and wants a relationship if he doesn’t want a commitment in the long run. If he’s getting sex and having a good time why can’t it remain status quo w/o the lies? I have never quite understood the big rush and proclamation of ‘feelings???’
“He’s not obsessed with you – he’s obsessed with the idea of not ‘losing’ again plus if anyone is going to do the rejecting here, it’s got to be him because his ego is too ‘fragile’ to accept that someone isn’t prepared to put up with his BS.”
NML is right on the button here. NO CONTACT. Continue NO CONTACT. Keep continuing No Contact unless you need to get a restaraining order- and have THEM deliver it, not you.
You’re being ‘nice’ to want to understand, but it is his problem, and not yours to solve. If he can get you to engage, then he will just feel victiroious and play more head games.
When you wanted to get more serious, he showed his true colors, so let him live with the consequences of his choice.
Loving Annie
Right girls I need some help here. KatyB has moved onto the Christian Carter thing in that its all her fault, Ive had auick look cant really get anything from it as you have to pay, NML or any girls please can you give me the low down on this. As KatyB is saying that the reason he cant commit is because it was her, because thats whats she’s read. Im a bit confused as what to say??
Rules,
Maybe it’s easier for her to blame herself than to accept the fact that this guy is a creep. Perhaps, to accept that it is her fault is a way to continue to hold on.
I looked at the site and didn’t think he was blaming the woman for the failure of the relationship. Just my interpretation.
Gaynor – I always wondered about the “feelings” bs myself. I asked my EUM why he brought all that crap into it when it would have been just fine as a FB situation – no feelings. He looked panicked and said that he was never really “selling” what he meant – that he was confused, yadda frickin yadda. I think they in some way have “feelings,” in the beginning, but not real feelings with intentions. They think they do, but they are babies and have no way of backing up what they said or even intend to back up what they say. Just like we have misconceptions, so do they – that they will meet the perfect woman and everything will just work out on it’s own…happliy ever after….then once things start getting to real they decide that you aren’t “the one” and start backpedaling from and searching for the next “perfect girl.” The grass is always greener with these guys, even if they planted the lawn in the first place.
Being with these types of men is an emotional merry go around. I know, because I’m still trying to get off. Spare yourself the pain and misery of being with this man, from someone who wishes that she’d done the same thing herself early in the relationship.
They don’t change, but you most likely will – and not for the better.
hey girls. any suggestions on how to have NC with a guy you truly love and want to be with. Yes I have learned through expierence that he is a EUM, that seems to only have “feelings” for his self at the moment. Anyhow for me to get over him, I need space time and distance. period….the dillema for me here is that, the moment he realizes he’s giving me that, he sends me an email….can’t block him, can’t ignore his calls……….we have a 15 month old little girl together!!!!!!
Beth, just keep ignoring him, he will stop eventually.
Jennifer – I’ve been divorced from a EUM for 2 years. We have a 7yo and a 3 yo together. When he comes to take your daughter for his custody time, you are either (1) not there (he picks her up from a relative’s house), or, (2)you are polite/businesslike do not engage in small talk, discuss what is absolutely necessary for taking care of her, and out the door they go. “No contact” in this manner can be done. It is about your little girl, not you as a couple anymore. This really helps emotionally distance yourself from him. He is the father of your little girl – not your partner…it is a whole new mindset…it is hard, but you can do it…If you don’t have a custody schedule – then get an attorney/mediator and set one up…
Rules~ The carter book does not blame the female but he certainly makes it clear that “healthy men” do not want women who haven’t dealt with their issues. (Something you could expect to hear on this site also)
The difference is that Carter is referencing healthy men not a$$clowns. So KatyB needs to see that the jerk she’s getting over is an a$$ before she can gleen anything from what Carter says….and even then Carter tells you to love yourself, deal with your issues, etc….everything that NML says here
Hello,
once I came across the Christian Carter stuff. Inscribed for his newsletter and can’t really figure out what exactly he might have to tell us women in his products, which are 1) very expensive and 2) for me “unavailable” as I’m from Germany. It’s very complicated. He is unknown here, so there are no forums to get a deeper look.
I’m really interested in understanding men – healthy men of course – and I also appreciate the stuff from Alison Armstrong. Well, men bashing is nothing that takes me further, but of course you/I have to get smart about assclowns, rough diamonds and healthy men 😉 And I’d like to learn about the things I can realistically do to a so called “quality man”.
So, in addition to this site, is there anything about C.C. that is here not covered? What are these mysterious secrets of communication? What is happening in the mind of men? Does anybody want to share?
Or do you know other sites covering this subject?
I’d really appreciate your answers. Thanks — Arlena
Thanks for the feedback, Natalie and everyone.
I ran into some of his closest friends today and they were really sweet to me–they said they thought he was making a huge mistake about me and were furious with how he was handling things. I was shocked at how supportive they were toward me. But they also told me that I would have been miserable dating him right now–they just said that he tends to go for very low self-esteem types and even admitted to his friends that I was too great for him.
So, I am sticking with NCR indefinitely. Now, it’s onto the rest of my grieving…or really, trying to reconcile that the person I loved wasn’t really him all along. Any suggestions on how to expedite this process? Yeah, yeah–I’ve done the whole “write down all the crappy things he’s said and done”, remember that he’s a creep, etc., etc. But it’s not really making a huge difference. I guess I just have to be patient, give it time. But hopefully he won’t come back around wanting a commitment in the middle of my healing! Rrghh..
Arlena, thanks for your comment but this site has nothing to do with Christian Carter, we’re not affiliated. I know very little about Christian Carter, don’t endorse his products/service, and from what I know he comes from a different perspective. I don’t do any ‘secrets’ stuff and probably the best place to find out this is on a related forum. I am trying to discourage this discussion from going on in the comments because as the site owner, I do need to moderate what is said about someone else’s business as I don’t want any comeback.
NML ou are behaving like the thoughtpolice.The problemwe are having with CC versus you is basically we cant figure out the healthy men from the asses
Babssoft.. I’m where you are but him and I share a child which makes it harder to cut out all contact….. but things that i’ve been doing to HELP HEAL MYSELF in the mean time…focus on the negative things he has said and done..if a positive pops in there block it, by focusing back on the negative…get your sexy back, yep buy a new outfit, vibrater whatever makes you feel sexy. make yourself a priority, need to loose 20 lbs start on that now, not tomarrow, need a education enroll in school, want a better job, start applying…make peace with your self, forgive yourself for allowing an a$$ clown, bring you down…I’ve learned I can’t be in a healthy loving relationship if I don’t first love myself !! If you don’t love yourself and respect yourself how can you expect anyone else to?? To love yourself. is to value, cherish and take care of yourself..you see i realized i didn’t love myself, when my babies dad left me on the day of her blessing when she was only 5 weeks old to be with another women.. that day i didn’t know that he left to be with someone else, all i knew is he was calling me a whore and more, for no reason he had never ever spoke to me like that before, and when i found out about this other women i excepted it appoligized to him, for letting him down (got pregnant out of wed lock, which he didn’t approve of) and wanted to take him back and work things out..yes i still love him and yes i still would love to work things out, but not on his timing or terms!!! I have learned that my happiness matters that I matter & that if i am a faithful, loving, committed, caring person, that treats my man well, then i deserve that from him, nothing less!!! why should ( I ) settle for someone who gives me scraps of his time, love, affection, calls me names cheats, and lies to me..I’m sorry but I deserve to have what I give……and if I have to live the rest of my life alone, then thats better then sharing a life with someone who doesn’t value me at all…the best thing you can do for yourself is learn to love your self, accept yourself, look in the mirror everyday, tell your self that you are beautiful, that you are smart and that you matter….you need to love yourself before you allow a man to love you. you see when someone loves you and then leaves you when you are still in love with them and want to be with them…it makes you feel worthless, fearful, and abanoneded…but girl if you love yourself when this person or any other leaves you, its going to hurt alot lot less, because your self, respect, self esteem and abandonment fears won’t be there.. you will always have someone that loves you, and that someone should be U..and if you have self love thats what matters…also look outside of your world right now, would this man, be someone you would want your daughter, friend or sister date????? would this man be someone that you would want your son to grow up to be like??? Just because he’s an arse now, and because you are like i was and seem to have self love doesn”t mean that it will always be over between the 2 of you, change how you think and feel about yourself, impower yourself, love yourself find good in yourself and share that, cut off all contact with him and as much as you can with his family and friends, then when you feel good, sexy, loved, educated whatever and if he contacts you, briefly talk whatever, never call a guy first, email or anything if you have or are STOP..doing that letrs him know you care and that you still want him..focus on you and change yourself, and then maybe things in your world may change to, let this situation inspire you!!!! but do go out and date, if you 2 end up back together one day great, if not, thats cool to because hunny the reality of life is, that once you change you may not even want his sorry arse!!!!!! really!!! I haven’t bought NML’s book yet, because I’m trying to raise my 6 kids alone, and supporting this many means I wait till the 1st to splurge…but I think with a title like this it has to have some great info in it, that you should get and put into effect.. I wish you the best of luck…
Suzy, I’m going to pretend you weren’t just rude to me. I’m going to repeat myself for the 3rd time tonight and state that I don’t read Christian Carter – this is the 2nd thread with the same thing. Why do I have to comment on someone I know nothing about?
BBP,
Loved the comment “the grass is always greener, even if they planted the lawn in the first place.”
One thing that I just realized is that I need to get in touch with my anger regarding the a**clown…I was blaming myself for a lot of things when I should really get in touch with my anger. The bad side of him: He’s a manipulator, a user, a liar and knew how to find my soft spot. I think if I can find the anger and focus on the real him, I won’t focus as much on what drew me to him. I have to forgive and love myself and not judge myself so harshly. I’m onto Day 2 for the new year’s NC which I am committing to keeping to.
BBP,
I think there is a big confusion here about the difference between feelings at the moment – what Beth’s clown gave her at the beginning – and general “health of the relationship” that Beth (and the rest of us) want to assume it means.
Is a feeling the flash of discomfort when you momentarily touch a hot stove – or the ache you bear for a week or more if the touch isn’t quick enough to avoid injury? Does “I feel affection for you, and feel comfort and happiness to be with you at this moment” mean the same thing as “I treasure having known you, I hope to enjoy your affection now and for the rest of my life?” What I am suggesting is that he can say “I love you”, you can hear “I love you”, and when he means he is happy with everything, you (want to) hear that he is devoted to being your partner forever.
In this case it didn’t happen.
Beth,
This guy sounds scary. A normal, balanced, healthy individual with respect for himself and others will accept and respect a “no”. This guy is stalking you. The No Contact approach may be enough, but you may need some outside help to warn/scare/have him arrested. Seriously. This dude hasn’t quit yet – and that bothers me, a lot. Take this seriously, there have already been enough people hurt.
There has been a lot written on Baggage Reclaim about No Contact, that you just start it, that the point is not avoid replying – but to prevent his attempt to call/email/IM/text from getting to you. Your email should take any message with his sender ID and trash it before it hits your inbox – you can’t get past his antics if every week you see that he is still emailing. Just the fact his email arrived, let alone showing the subject – is more than you need. It delays your own recovery and keeps your attention diverting back to him – and reinvesting your attention and emotions in that failed relationship.
I would not use him as an example of ‘commitment phobe’. Instead, I would focus on his morbid obsession with rejection, his gross disrespect to you by ignoring the end of your relationship, and his inexcusable behavior when you believed the words he was saying, about enjoying a relationship with you.
He seems to want to contact you, yet he apparently considers you demented or incapable of answering for yourself – because he sure didn’t believe your “it is over” to apply to him. His arrogance and disregard make whatever issues he has about commitment seem pretty trivial.
Really. Talk to a lawyer, or your local police. You may need to sign a criminal complaint of stalking and sexual harassment, or have a lawyer send a registered “cease and desist” letter. But you need a paper trail for the legal system in case he doesn’t back off.
Address the stalking thing now, read up on commitment phobes with what NML says above and elsewhere here at Baggage Reclaim or in Cosmo with some (girl) friends some sunny afternoon.
And as I mentioned to BBP, when you hear “I love you”, be sure to check whether that means dinner was great, or whether he wants to make a home with children and a life mate.
These responses are all really helpful–thanks again.
Jennifer–you are totally on point. Luckily for me, I am not worried about disrespecting myself because I have quite a high opinion of myself. I think my real problem is with having patience for someone decent to come along. So, I’ll be ok, just frustrated!!!!!! But I will get NML’s book. Best to you and yours.
Brad, I really appreciate what you had to say and I will talk to the police. I am not sure what the laws are in NYC, but I will find out. I can see that he is mentally unstable right now in more ways than one, and I do take that seriously. It’s been at least 4 or 5 emails that he’s completely ignored my wishes for no contact. So,, it’s been shocking to find out that not only is he an EUM and commitment-phobe, but also has severe issues with arrogance and domination (I should have known–he’s a politician…). Gosh, you think you know someone…
But honestly, it has been creepy and totally uncool. Why do there have to be so many psychos out there?!!
Also–
This is somewhat off-topic, but I am beginning to wonder whether I, myself am a commitment-phobe and therefore attracting EUMs. Any advice here? I am willing to do whatever it takes to find out, I am serious about getting clear on this and taking any necessary action.
Babe,
Google: Emotionally unavailable women. I’m certain you will be able to access numerous sites which list the traits.
Men aren’t mysterious creatures we have to read volumes about to understand. Sure there are male and female differences, especially in their range of emotions but figuring men out isn’ t that hard. Here is the single biggest truth I’ve learned from this site.
1. Pay attention to a man’s actions, not what they say. ie: If a man tells you he loves you and then disappears for days on end with no explanation, he doesn’t love you or even respect you.
Unfortunately with assclowns we usually live in a fanstasy world where we ignore their bad behavior and only pay exteme attention to some tiny crumb of normal decent behavior that you would expect for any normal man. We just have to dig back into our pasts and remember what it was like when a man really loved us. Then compare that to how we’re treated by an assclown. I guarentee we can recognize the difference if we put our minds to it.
I’m actually embarrassed by the BS behavior that I put up with from my xEUM. The truth was right in front of me the whole time. Just as NML says:
“You let him back in your life on his terms and you’re essentially being demoted and he’s pulling a classic move where he blows hot, cries wolf, manages down your expectations and starts chasing you again to rebalance things, only this time you end up on lesser terms”
So completely true. Once we cross our boundries and allow them to disrespect us, there is no limit to the self esteem bashing we’re in for. I’ll never let that happen to me again, even if that means staying single.
Now Now ladies, Lets not get into a ruck. Sorted out the CC thing and gaynor you hit the nail on the head, Ive told katyb to back to looking here, as she has a whole lot of her own issues to deal with before she can even think about dating healthy men, cos in my experience they will run for the hills if you aint in control of your own thought patterns and unresolved issues of loving to much to get what you want in the end. This site is about the two a penny idiots she keeps investing her heart in, and beliving the wanton lies to get what they want, sex on tap and an ego boost. Lets get back to talking about the real issue. Sorry NML didnt expect to get a whirlwind going!
“He pursued me ardently throughout the whole time we were together, lavished me with romance, talked about marriage, kids, moving in together, and couldn’t peel himself off of me each time we met……told me he was in love with me…”
“He said he couldn’t possibly be in a relationship right now because “I would hurt him firstâ€.”
I personally don’t believe in commitment phobia as a real condition. Here’s a guy who promises the sun, moon and stars because he wants all the convenience of a woman (sex, her availability) and no responsibility. Some call it a phobia, I call it a lazy little boy.
Stick with NO Communication. Don’t answer one call or text. He’s hoping to get you on the line so he can begin to promise you the world again and start this all over. Ignore, Ignore and he will get it eventually.
Seductress
“the grass is always greener, even if they planted the lawn in the first place.†The problem is, he used plastic turf grass instead of Argentine. The grass is greener where you tend it, but there is no tending needed for fake grass.
The fact that he couldn’t peel himself off of you, and was talking, marriage, moving in together and having kids within the first two month should have been your major big red flag number one.
This man was dumped by his fiance, and he is clearly on the rebound, hunting for validation and confirmation that he is still good enough, not a failure, and desirable. All his crap has nothing to do with you at all, and everything to do with him licking his wounds. He more than likely has been through several of you, between being dumped by his fiance, and discovering you as his next victim.
He looks for low self-esteem woman, because he knows he can easily fool them with words, and nothing more.
Rules,
Glad she’s back. I’m hoping recognition of this using creep will become apparent soon.
Hi everyone. I am new to this site and I had a chance to read this post and all comments. Everyone here seems to have a handle on recognizing unavailable men so I’m hoping you can all give me some advice. How do you handle a man you’ve been with for 5 years who “dumps” you in such a way as to say that all it was for 5 years was just “sex.” For me, it’s very hurtful and I have no idea how to recover from this. As I sit here typing this, I realize there were some big red flags that I should have noticed, but didn’t. I’m crushed but even more upset by the fact he still contacts me asking me if I want to “hook up.” I’ve honestly never been in this type of relationship before and hearing this from him and re-thinking everything, I’m not sure I will ever be able to have a relationship. What makes some women more worthy of respect than others? I’ve read that men like women who are “bitchy” but I’m really not like that (and I thought I wasn’t a dorrmat either). How do you strike a balance? I don’t want to be just a “survivor” from this – I’d like to come out ahead. Thanks for ANY advice.
Chloe,
Please don’t let this creep keep you from finding love again.
It has nothing to with being “bitchy” it has to do with setting boundaries-red NML’s previous post. Are you still talking to this guy, if so you must go no contact immediately (block e-mail and phone number) and never speak to him again. This man is a selfish, cruel and emotionally abusive who doesn’t deserve to have anyone in his life.
What were some of the red flags?
Lastly, read the post How to Spot an Emotionally Unavailable Man (see top right of this page).
Oh, Chloe, you dear thing, I am so sorry for your heart. Your assclown wants to demote you from girlfriend to booty call, yuck!
Read the post on How to Spot Emotionally Unavailable Men (in the Most Popular Posts sidebar) and all the comments where quite a few of us have added to the list of red flags.
Also, go ahead and get Natalie’s book, Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.” Now I think, as do some of the ladies here, that some of us don’t start out as Fallback Girls looking for a man to ruin our self-esteem, but we are not taught how to recognize them and there are so many, sometimes it is just a bad choice that ends up with us wasting time on these jerks, some of whom are “nice guys” but just emotionally retarded or injured. I think you might be in this category of First Time FBG. But one such experience, especially a long-term one like yours, will groom you into being a repeater Fallback Girl. Five years? Ouch. Mine was six, and I have been NC since October 25th. Fortunately, my EUM has had the decency to stay NC, and I got him to read “Mr. Unavailable” so he knows that I am not going to fall for any more bullshit like “friends” or “booty call” requests. After both of us reading that, he knew the jig was up.
Stay with us and read, ask for support, I have been here every day since Oct. 15th, don’t know how I would have made it otherwise.
It seems I have ALOT of reading to keep me busy. I just downloaded the Mr Unavailable /FB Girl from the site. Honestly, I didn’t think it would be that much to read. God, I really hope I’m not one of them, but since reading th posts that appeared after mine, I’m afraid that I am. I realize that it’s me allowing him to remain in contact by answering calls, texts, etc., and I’m sure he knows how vulnerable I am to him.
Some of the red flags (keep in mind this is all in retrospect) that I should have been more receptive too were 1) texting, which I noticed there is an article on this site about that. 2) Taking “breaks” at his convenience. I just figured all relationships need some space and I didn’t want to make that big of deal out of it. 3) He would promise to try and change, and would for awhile but then go back to being the way he was. There’s a long list – now that I think about it. I was thinking all relationships have their ups and downs so I didn’t really read THAT MUCH into it – at least until the last year when the breaks became more frequent. Does it come down to the simple fact that he just got tired of ME?
I think I’m at the stage where if I answer his texts or see him, that he might just come around and realize that he was wrong. Or maybe I’ve been in that stage for the past 4 years. I feel extremely empty right now – never quite experienced this before and I’ve been through breakups before. For some reason, losing this person hurts the most – possibly because I put all my hopes on him. What I don’t get is that he knew for a very very long time how I felt about him so to say that after 5 years it was nothing but “sex†just knocked me to the floor. If I really thought about it, I lost 5 years of my life, or me, of forgetting what I was like before meeting him. It’s VERY scary and it’s changed me in a way that I do not like. I’m starting to have very real fears about my future and ending up bitter and cynical.
Chloe,
If he just got tired of you he would have ended the relationship like a normal man, an EUM will just continue to string you along with no concern for your feelings or needs. It’s all about him and his needs.! These men are selfish and emotionally dangerous, as we have seen they have caused much destruction and pain for many women on this site. They are incapable of committing to a normal relationship, as that would mean that they would have to be responsible human beings. Not happening!!! If there is a question about NC and its benefits, go to a recent posting about No Contact.
He will not realize he was wrong ! If he hadn’t realized it in five-years he will not realize it now! Remember his words “it was nothing but sex.” Someone that can say something so cruel is not going to come around and see the error of their ways
@Regina, Where is his thinking now since the reading of the book? Didn’t you also say he getting therapy?
I’m glad I found this site. Thanks for being very direct. I have alot of work ahead of me.
Tired shmired. If he was unhappy he should have ended it once and for all, not lead you along and definitely not demoted/insulted you! He sounds like a baby calf who’s been sniffing too much fertilizer! Healthy people figure out what they want and if something’s not what they want, they cut ties in a healthy, grown-up manner. Relationships do have ups and downs, but they shouldn’t be “bi-polar.”
Chloe, another reading project would be “He’s Just Not That Into You.” Greg Behrendt, the co-author, has a little different take. He would say that the *reason* men are EU is that they are just not that into you. He says that men just have this ability to be in relationships where convenience and sex are involved, without being really into the woman, at least not enough to commit to them and be emotionally available, and want to spend time and a life with them.
How old are y’all? Getting “tired” of your partner sounds immature to me, it is what I might have felt in my 20’s, and I’d say “We just grew apart” or “I outgrew him.” If y’all are older I would suspect that you just made it too easy for him, made yourself too convenient, “low maintenance” and did not demand any sort of commitment from him earlier on. So then why shouldn’t he slurp up all your true love as long as the offer is on for free? That is exactly what mine did.
Greg Behrendt would say that if a man says thing like “I wouldn’t ever want to get married,” (which they will tell you within the first few dates) what he really means is “I would never get married to *you* because you are not “the one” and I’m not that into you. Can we have sex now?”
“Bi-polar” is a good term for this type of relationships.
Chloe, the one thing that helped me move on was the kick in the ass I got from my friends. At the time I thought they must not understand my ‘relationship’ but they did and knew that this guy was no good for me. I thank my friends who cared enough to get tough, it certainly made me see the light.
Amen Veronica~ Bi-polar is a great way to decribe the relationship with the a$$clown!! Ups and downs are normal. And as women (who keep the a$$clown sick) we do not realize that the extremes of an a$$ relationship is not normal.
I read the He’s Just Not That Into You’ book. I would have thought he would have figured that out well before 5 Years. Like I said, looking back now there were signs that he wasn’t right. But you know, when you tell someone after that amount of time that all it was, was just “sex” – there’s really no way to just let that roll off your back and say “fine whatever.” To hear that he’s moved on already is quite painful.
I read the He’s Just Not That Into You’ book. I would have thought he would have figured that out well before 5 Years. To think that I wa nothing more than that is very hard to get out from under. But it’s even worse that he thinks so little of me that he can’t leave me alone but continues to keep calling me.
Sorry – doubled up on that last comment, Damn computer.
I should clarify that he said he wanted nothing more to do with me and that he needed to move on and that I would look back on this and laugh. So, ok, I assume he’s going to leave me alone. But he’s not. Like I said, this is the first time I’ve experienced this type of treatment. I am 5 years older than him but we are not in our 20’s.
Look back and laugh???? Is this guy for real??? I think his comments allow him to believe his behavior is OK. Have these narcissistic traits been so apparent in the past???
Beth, I think we (in this type of situation – can’t even call it a relationship) worry and think waaay too much about what is going on with the guy who just dumped us. I’ve wasted many days of my life trying to figure him out. Sometimes, there is no figuring it out – ever.
Now comes the time to look at ourselves. Since being involved with my ex-EUM I have lost all trust in my own feelings and instincts. I am constantly questioning myself and what I believe to be true. Because everything I thought and felt has now been turned upside down on it’s head.
I think NML said this a while back – if we spent half as much time figuring out ourselves and what we want, and will and will not accept, we’d all be better for it. It is very hard to get untangled. I wish you all the best. I am right there with you!
Chloe, they can be not that into you for a very long time, like I said if you made yourself too convenient and low maintenance and had no demands for commitment. It is not them who needs to figure out that they are not into us, it is we who need to correctly interpret the behavior.
I bet yours and my long term EUMs felt bad at times, knowing that their partner was falling more and more deeply in love with him in a way he’d never want to return. But hey, she is coming over to fix dinner and watch TV and a blowjob is probably in the offing, so no time to mention that he’s not that in love with you just right now. He will probably excuse himself on the basis of way back in the beginning he told you he wasn’t the marrying kind.
Way back when we got together I was not the marrying kind or the living-together kind. But my emotions and attachment and love tend to develop, increase and grow with time, I bet yours did too. With a long-term operator EUM, they get to a certain point and then they just won’t move the relationship forward anymore. But they will try to keep you around, girl on tap, a toy on the shelf to take down and play with on *their* schedule.
Did y’all live together? Did y’all ever strike up a deal about what sort of relationship you were going to have?
I am so sorry for the cruelty he has done to you. Take care dear.
Gaynor- hubby gonna reply err dont know where he can, as he dont want to interupt this thread. Katy been on here today, didnt feel like typing. She has’nt got a pc she only comes on this site when at mine. All in all she’s in a mess. Ive dug out a very famous book for her to start her re-hab, and maybe she will start obsessing about herself instead of that freak of a joke she has been. The book in question is based on the 12 steps used in AA and its a great place to start, Im thinking of getting her to an Al-anon meeting as this is an ideal place as she will start to identify her traits and they will kick start a recovery process, if she’s up for the slog I’ll be a sponsor for her but that will have to come later as Im a task master!!! its the only way she’s gonna get herself outta the bad cycle of men choosing she has, we all have or had. I’ve conficasted said mobile deleted all his freaking messages that’she is clinging onto, Im trying to get her to go back to work or go Dr. She’s very needy at the mo, gonna have her and daughter here for the weekend cos she needs a smile. He aint contacted her, ‘SUPRISE’ and thats good she needs to grieve and thats good too. She aint angry yet as she is still blaming herself awfully. God what prick he is.
Regina
No we didn’t live together. Looking back, there were many times he bad-mouthed other people we knew or formed his opinions of others based on what his friends thought. I did see him grow out of that a little bit, though. I knew he had most things handed to him by his parents, but really, I know people that grew up that way and they are TOTALLY different than this guy. I think it’s a simple case of wanting to find the “perfect” girl (in his mind). I used to stand up for myself quite a lot in the beginning and gave specific things that I wanted to see change. But after many times of “Ok, I will try” and then nothing, you kind of just give up thinking that you don’t want to be this demanding, nagging b**tch. But in reality, I was only asking for what any normal relationship would require. I know I allowed him to skirt by with minimal effort, but I don’t excuse his shitty comments or treatment of me at the end or of late. It’s hard for me to accept that he has no trouble treating me this way…
Iliked what NML said about a commitment phobe not commiting to anything, that struck a chord in that, as she says we attract those that mirror ourselves. I in my early staes of getting better realised the awful truthfulness of this about myself, at the time of doing my degree, I literally had to drag my arse through it, it to prove to myself I could commit to something, all the time I was doing it was hard work. I also think this reflects us trying to prove to ourselves how we can commit to anything no matter how hard it is ie relationships. Sometimes though its good to give up and not struggle with the idea that we’ve failed somehow by given up on a man who just doesnt cut it. Thats ok girls, really!!!
Rules,
There are no rules here 🙂 I don’t think the other ladies would mind if he give his input on his mindset at the time. I would also be interested if he was conscious of his hot/cold periods??
The AA program sounds like a terrific start, I hope she is open to it. Is she receptive to therapy?
I’m glad the sleaze bag hasn’t contacted her. What would she do if he did? Were you friendly with this guy??
chloe- why bother honey hanging around telling a prick of a man to change, the best love you can give a man, to him and most importantly to yourself is tough love. its not for you to tell him, just turn your pretty, tail around and walk. You say he had everything handed to him by his parents, you noticed it, it registered errrrr HELLO RED FLAG!!!!!! this is a classic sighn of an emotionally unavailable man. And you should be a nagging demanding bitch, err what where you asking for a Yacht? no just common decency, Jesus what a total tosser, babe you are worth more, and anyway, any emotionally available man would see someone who is asking for a bit of respect and deliver and pick up the slack, cos he knows your worth it and dont wanna lose it. No relationship is perfect, we are all complacent at times even this, re-habed arse kicking rules girl. I to get a withering look from hubby if I aint being the best wife, and maybe a few terse words, but I dont see this man as nagging me or controlling, I see him caring about us, and visa vers, an emotianlly avaible men, have usually been unavailble at some point, and see us who try and fix things as not a cloying attribute, but look at us and thank fuck a women who freaking loves me, and yeah needines can be a bit suffocating, but most of the real men I know acknowledge that woman at times need a bit of recuing and do not see it as aweakness but step up to the plate to be a man and rescue a damsel in distress.
I knew him, I saw through him within, oh about 5 mins of meeting him. I had to refrain from telling her, ie to fix it, I hoped she’d see it. Then she came back and back asking me how I handled my addict, many years ago, oh the memory, and I told her, that it would only get worse, oh and it did horridly. but I knew I she had to runwith it. Let me tall you all, when I did start my real recovery, I came across a book of meditations and there was one that always stayed with me, we learn from our teachers, but in truth, when we recover those teachers fade out of our lives. Its so true, we use these men to teach us, our stepping stones, but when we take recovery into our own hands we never meet these men again and also ladies that applies to these men, when they recover girls like katyb fade out of their lives to, because they to are truthfully emotionally unavailble.thats what I want for her, but she’s gotta be on her knees. before she will get help.
NML: Maybe you can post more topics on self esteem and how to improve it? Doesn’t all of this stem from Self Esteem? Is there a way to ever overcome it? I am 33 years old and have been in therapy since I was 17! I have read tons of books on self esteem– and while it has improved…. I can’t say that i have completely conquered it. Is this something we can ever conquer?
Hey Gaynor, did I know in my hot and cold moments. I did, it was a game, getting what I wanted, not caring, but in truth, not realising the pain I was causing, in my mind she didnt like it she could go. Awful and shamful.
Hey John,
Did you tell her you loved her and that you were working towards relationship? Mine said he didn’t want me to get hurt. Did you say the same w/o meaning it? Did you know that she was in love with you, or did you think she was at the same place as you?
Big thank you for answering the questions!!!
It was her tears, that one moment, when she just vented how she felt, it was like a waterfall, I couldnt get a word in, in the end I just looked at this women and I knew, the truth, it was me, I’d treated her horrifically. Total emotionall retard. I knew all along in the relationship that I was covering up the fact I cldnt commit, afraid, so I hid it, let her walk if she wanted, hey Im a man what do I care if a women dont like me, plenty more in the sea, I did care underneath it all, but I was to scared to go against what is percieved to be what a real man is. NO EMOTION. DENIAL. Seeing her pain crushed me. But thats me. It was at the right time, right place, BANG. Other girls had screamed and cryed, but you know what even if it hurt I walked, I was a man what did I care. She did something to me, thankgod I found it again. But it was a close one!!!!! lol.
But did you go as far as telling her you loved her??
Yeah I knew she was in love with me, I wanted her to be. I wanted a relationship, but when we got there, I always freaked. Scared of normality, it still freaks me a bit, but the thought of losing my wife, NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its not even an option.
Im a man at the end of the day, we all freak at commitment, but some are able to go with flow, let the girl do the choosing, clear boudaries do that, if you dont cut it your out!!! I knew it the moment I met wifey, clear and simple.
I’m going to real pest but I would like the answer to this question? Did you tell her you loved her???
So happy to see you recognize the value of your wonderful wife!
Also I’d like to say something about clear boundaries, I knew my ex loved me but her boudaries where weak she never followed them through, no self respect a big turn off for us guys, we love women who know what they want, and who are going to get it. However, this is no excuse to treat those who dnt have them like crap. Full stop. I loved her, clear and simple, the moment she left, I fell apart.
Sorry, yes I told her.
I told lots of womenthat, sometimes its a game to get we want. Sex, promise the world its innate sorry. You women have got to wise up. Its not what we say, its our actions, if we dont ring, show up, bad mouth you we dont care, or some of us pretend not to care as in this case. Its complex this love thing. God Im thinking, men dont think.
With healthy men gaynor, men chase women, unhealthy women we caste aside, those who have clear boudaries, cool, have their own lives we chase, but if your both emotionaly unavailable this natural thing between men and women gets messed up. Remeber though at somepoint your not healthy to. Its complex. It
The funny thing is is that my ex knew it made me uncomfortable for him to express his love so early. Hell, we were already sleeping together, so why do so many of these guys proclaim love when they don’t mean it or need to ?
Did you love any of the women you were with?
My advice to women. If a man is not respecting you, and you know it walk! even if you know he loves you. As my wife knows and shows alot tough love is the only way. Dont go back not even once.
I agree with the unhealthiness of this situation. I have made so many life changes since this experience i hardly recognize myself.
Good does come from bad!!!!
Love at that time was not on my mind! we are sneaky. You slept with him though dont sleep with a man who proclaims love in the fist 3 months!!! thats my advice. you gotta get him to fall for you first. Play the game ladies we love it. Yeah some of us are up for the fight!!! if we want you we will stick it out and come and talk to you, do not talk to us!!!! stop having those damn talks about the realtionship, we’ll get there ok, if we are ready to love and accept the love that is.
If your healthy you’ll have us sussed before we buy you the first drink.
Babssoft-
I haven’t read all the posts but I did see yours so forgive me if my point was said previously. I work in the criminal justice field in NY. I am a former domestic violence/rape counselor. The best advise is for you to block his emails. If you continue to read them you are allowing it to interfere with your healing (just what he wants). Next–have a mutual contact relay to him that you want no more contact and that if he steps over the line by electronic, phone or in person, you will be filing harrassment charges. What works best is if you put this in writting and have your contact hand it to them. Keep a copy for yourself. He will get the picture and you can move on.
Brad is right, and if he steps over–you know you have problem. NYC police will not respond to this type of thing unless you have made NO contact with him and has informed him that you want NO contact. I have been involved with battering cases where the woman has responed to text messages and it distroyed the whole case. Its NY and we have come only so far with this type of thing. (the offender always says–“she was calling me too”.
it sounds like women should jump ship after the first time a man doesn something that is wrong. Is that your posts suggests? I personally think everyone is entitled to a 2nd chance – especially at the beginning of a relationship. The most recent posts seem to indicate that if you don’t walk away at the very beginning, then you are considered an “unhealthy women.” Sure, in my case I should have walked long ago. I’d hate to think I was already “unhealthy” before I met his a-hole.
Hi Guys. There is maintenance taking place on the site because of large comment volumes and reader gripes. Please follow the comment guidelines and don’t post strings of comments one after another as it this is what leads to server issues. You will note if you are posting long strings of comments that where possible your comments are being deleted and merged. Due to problems and complaints from readers, I have also closed comments on a number of posts.
JohnT,
Thanks for your advice. I know I need to work on my boundaries. I’m way too nice.
Sorry!
Everytime I come here, I read a post that has my name on it. I think I have grown alot since reading the posts and reflecting on my past situation, putting myself first and foremost. There is a saying that I enjoy and try to keep in mind, “God first, ME and everyone take a ticket and get in line.” Thank you NML for this site!
NML, I’m sorry, I didn’t meant to annoy you. I’m reading your newsletter with great interest and I commented for the first time in this block. Whilst reading CC’s name in one posting, I wasn’t aware doing a no-no.
If you like delete my posting and I won’t mention him on your site again.
@JohnT – Thanks, I’ve appreciated your advice. Sometimes I’m baffled how counterintuitive some advice feels… so we need some man’s help, too 😉
John,
Thank you!!! Your input and honesty is greatly appreciated!
Karen….On self esteem. I struggle with this myself but I think I’m finally figuring it out. Treat yourself the way you would treat someone you really like. Try not to look at yourself in the mirror and see all your flaws. Look in the mirror and find the good things about your face and body. Don’t think, I’ll find a boyfriend when I’m thinnner, happier, richer, etc. Just work on liking who you are right now. If there are things you want to improve about yourself, work on that but look at it in a positive way. For instance, if you want to lose a few pounds then try eating healthier and exercise. When you reach a personal goal, reward yourself. Get a massage, your nails done, go to a spa, whatever things you like to do.
I’m really trying to learn to love myself so that I can meet positive people. When you’re down on yourself people can tell and you attract negativity.
As womrn we’ve been taught since childhood to put other’s peoples needs first, to worry about other people’s feelings, to think it’s selfish to want to pamper yourself. Men don’t seem to have that baggage. We need to think more like men in this regard. Be open to men pampering you.. It doesn’t mean you have to be selfish but put yourself first some of the time.
I had a hard time with this because I always wanted to please my xEUM and so we formed a pattern where he would receive and I would give. It didn’t start out that way but because of my giving nature he took advantage of that. It made me feel resentful, that I was not being appreciated.
Self esteem is tricky but really it just means to love yourself just the way you are and mean it.
@Arlena Trust me, you haven’t annoyed me. Unfortunately there were comments that were deleted due to the libelous nature of them – fortunately they came through to be moderated. This is not the only thread where the CC thing was. At that point I felt it best that considering that the post was not about CC that it was best to cut it off now. It’s important that comments stay on topic because esp with a post of this nature, someone out there is actually looking for help about her problem. Obviously if I ever choose to write about Christian Carter or one of his posts, then that creates a discussion point for the comments facility, although as I don’t read him, it seems unlikely! Or as I pointed out on the other thread where it started, it’s better to use the forum for that type of thing.
NYSharon, I really appreciate your advice and plan to follow through should he initiate contact again (I haven’t heard from him in 2 weeks now since I asked him to stop writing the last time).
This is a great site and I’m so glad I could have this conversation–this advice is really the only thing that has made sense to me through all this. I am also looking into a support group and codependency issues. I think I have come a long way in terms of self-esteem, etc. but there is more work to do on learning about “red flags” and other signs that someone is not healthy for me. I feel like I am really on the right track. Thanks so much again everyone!!
Hello Everyone:
Feeling like crap today. I feel embarrassed that I am not strong enough or have enough self esteem to let this person go. I feel so powerless and so obsessed by feeling like I need this person’s approval or love. I sometimes feel that I was a little jealous, a little insecure and this is the reason why things didn’t work out. I broke up with him— because I knew the best thing for me was to get out of a relationship with a man who is not available. My feelings fluctuate between feeling strong and confident to feeling sad and weak and powerless. I mean come on– this is only a MAN…and im feeling or acting like he is the BEST thing on the planet (which he is not). I want nothing more than to get over him… Although he says he loves me (and I do feel in some way he does–albeit perhaps not “in love with me”) I want to get rid of the urge of wanting him, longing for him and feeling like I need to reach out to him. Will this feeling ever go away? I’ve been hanging out with friends and trying to keep busy but somehow Im having a really hard time with letting go. I dont want to chase him– I dont want him to feel like he has the power and I most definetely dont want to feel as though he has no time for me. It could be true that he is busy– so many things could be true…. not sure if its just me being insecure when he says…. Sorry i havent been able to call you back— things have just been crazy… ok grant it– I get a little anxious if he doesnt call within like a 3 hour time span…. but im not sure if im reacting this way because deep down i know the truth or because I am just insecure???? Either way– this is painful. Its not like I have never been through a breakup … not sure why this one is just sooo hard!!! I don’t want to feel like there is something wrong with me or like i did something wrong…. but I can’t help to feel that i pushed him away a little by being a little jealous, a little clingy, a little needy. Or was it him that made me feel that way?? Im soo confused and feeling really distraught and dissapointed right now. I know its not healthy to put your self worth on another person or what this person thinks of you. But I can’t help that it hurts that I still love this person— but like i said– i broke it off– i dont want to chase him but feel like i am a little…. how do I get to acceptance so that I can finally let go???
Time. I hate to say it but it is time. You must keep going. You can not look back. i keep going back to what John T said above: Also I’d like to say something about clear boundaries, I knew my ex loved me but her boudaries where weak she never followed them through, no self respect a big turn off for us guys, we love women who know what they want, and who are going to get it.
When we are actually feeling at fault or that we were the cause – I really believe this is what men find unattractive. I am changing the way i think to- what he has to offer me is not good enough. It is not what I want. I want sooo much more than he has to offer. I can’t sacrifice my needs for a man. That is what they find attractive. Independent, strong women who expect to be treated with respect. Unfortunately for me I allowed bad behavior for way too long. You did nothing wrong and maybe he is not the right person for you because you were feeling needy, insecure and jealous. I always think if i am with the right man he would never make me feel like that.
Your feelings will fluctuate but in time it will get better. This is my advice because I have been where you are right now. You must stay super busy- keep going out with friends, etc etc. In time you will get better and better. Feel good about your decision. You are no longer taking crumbs. You should know that you left with some sort of self respect. You broke up with him because it was not a healthy situation and ultimately not what you wanted. That is not going to change by going back. I went back twice and it never changed. You have to say I am letting go
Karen~ I’m completely with you. I felt and still feel the way you do right now….but leanne is right….it takes time. Don’t stay so busy doing things that you forget or fail to work on the personal stuff that led you to this guy to begin with. Remember, that if we had the self-respect and healthy boundaries (mentioned in almost all of these posts) we would NOT accept the slightest crumbs that these EUM’s dish out.
Your feelings ARE valid and you’re totally talking/reaching out because of a broken heart (which is normal) but don’t go backwards. Cry through the pain versus reaching out to him and just know you’ll feel stronger. Get mad at the poor treatment and start to look at the reality of the situation. Trust me, you will need to focus your attention away from whether he’s missing you….whether he’s sorry now….who he’s with…etc and put the focus on all the crappy things he’s done or said. You’ll slowly notice the shift in your thinking if you remember to do these things.
Thanks so much leeane and metsgurl!!! Can we really blame our sense of self worth on someone else? My biggest concern is he is just being who is… no one is responsible for our reactions to what other people say or do or not say or do. My goal is to get to a point where neither of it matters. I mean, its not normal for me to almost have an anxiety attack because he doesnt call…….and then when he does— feel a relief. Im sure this is some type of addiction. But whether its this guy or the next— I just dont want someone to have so much power over my emotions. I need to learn to control that otherwise I feel I will always be miserable and anxious and needy and clingy. Can I really say that “HE” is making me feel this way? Maybe there is something that I am not understanding?? Yes I am to an extent blaming myself because it is a self esteem issue. No one should be able to get to me like that and I should not allow anyone to have that type of power over me. So again, is it that he is doing this to me– or that i am doing it to myself? Could that really be considered “poor treatment”? I have to take responsibility for my own actions and reactions…….. I dont think I can completely blame him for not calling me within the designated time frame that “I” feel comfortable with……i should be able to manage either way… not expecting anything because my wellbeing is centered around me….not someone elses approval or love. Am i wrong?
@ Chloe,
“it sounds like women should jump ship after the first time a man does something that is wrong.”
This isn’t an easy question – it depends. For the most part, the discussion at Baggage Reclaim centers on guys/partners that are known to be emotionally unavailable, or abusive or other inappropriate choice for a partner. They make one feel bad much of the time, they isolate one from friends and family and much of society. Anyway, most of the discussion is about the partner already having been recognized as a problem, and any relationship to be unhealthy. With such a partner, there is no “does one thing wrong” – it is only one *more* thing wrong in a long history of being abusive and disrespectful.
What we want is to get past the point where you are vulnerable to an EUM or assclown. To rebuild your self esteem, to come to terms with what you want and need in a relationship – and what won’t be tolerated, even once. Anything that builds discipline (the will to complete a task) is moving in the right direction.
One way some will try to get past an EUM relationship is denial. We deny that there are problem people out there, and that we still think of ourselves as we used to and hang out with the same kind of people in the same kinds of social settings – and depend on trivial bits of lore to sort the good from the bad. Avoid someone with gold front teeth, that smokes, that drives a xxx car. That is like going to a vegetable garden, and deciding whether this weed is prettier than that weed for a bouquet. (Yes, I know that there are wild flowers we call weeds, that have their own majesty. Count them the next time you come upon a row of carrots.)
We do need signals. Red flags. Things that cross an imaginary line that no one can really define for us, we have to determine that line for ourselves, in our own situation. For me, respect, honor, integrity all come up as really essential. For a long term relationship I think they already have to have good emotional bonds with friends and family, be reasonably happy at work and be respected there, too. They should be able to care for and guide children and small animals, and children and small animals should do well in their care. They should be observant and trainable – when they realize they make a mistake, they want to make amends and avoid that mistake in the future.
Abusing pets, casually damaging furniture or walls or anything, really. These I would think were one-time deal breakers. Not the damage – the disrespect, the casual brutality. Miss a date, run late, unable to clean or pick up clutter – these are tough. The second time you have to decide if these matter to you, because they are likely, just like the other red flags, life-habits. Running late, forgetting dates – these might be disrespect (and a *big* red flag that says, “Run Away, Now!”) OR maybe they are disorganized – which, again, is a self esteem issue for them and fundamentally lack of respect for themselves.
Don’t drop a guy because he is late for a date or makes a mistake – but don’t forget it. If any other “iffy” things happen, consider whether there is a pattern of disrespect – and act quickly if there is. For minor things, talk it over, make your best guess.
If the guy isn’t healthy and available and of good character – your first priority is to protect yourself.
Giving a guy a second chance is an important decision. But then, we are only talking about the rest of your life!
@ Karen,
“I feel embarrassed that I am not strong enough or have enough self esteem.” Wow. We tell people to “be strong”, “Stick with it”. When, really, we mean “Break that habit – Now!” It isn’t so much strength that gets us through, as repetition.
How many times did you act and think as if you were a partner to this guy? Now, when it comes time to part, you have to deal with grieving for his loss in your life – your body is reacting as it always will to such a loss – at the same time your habits and what you know of how to live is still muddled with living a life as his partner. Keep in mind, one of the stages of grieving is denial – refusal to accept that he is really gone from your life. Which combines rather badly when leaving was your choice. You might want to talk to someone familiar with grief, and formal grief counseling. Having a guide to help you identify which parts are healthy and normal, and which parts you should be concerned about avoiding, might be great comfort.
There have been many suggestions for how to “move on”; I haven’t heard of any that are easy. An emotional “breakwater” – take a day or three to wallow in the sadness and loneliness, and reflect on all the harm that you suffered from being with him. A journal to capture your reflections, your dreams, your hurts and what you dread about the past, about the future, about yourself, about love – that should document a journey from confusion to something brighter and happier. A list of his faults helps some people.
Dating right away doesn’t seem like a great idea to me. Yes, you might use one guy to put the last one out of your mind – but you won’t have dealt with why you picked and stayed with a problem guy. And you are way too vulnerable to picking another problem guy – maybe different surface problems, but not likely to be respectful, honest, cheerful, and helpful.
LucK!
Wow! I really feel like crying now. Not out of drama but because I realize the denial that i am in. I know you guys are right because here I am thinking that things will change— and things are the same… I’m still not getting what i want or deserve from this man and somehow I keep hoping against hope that things will change. Call me an optimist– or call me naive or just plain dumb— but I really have to get it through my head that a crumb is not enough. That expecting anything more from this man just isnt going to happen! Here I sit at work (its 3:15pm in the states) and I wait for a crumb. A crumb of a phone call (we work together and he takes a break at 3pm) but again— nothing! And here i am disappointed, feeling unwanted and truly hating the fact that I continue to want to see the good in this……when in reality– it is me being in denial to avoid the pain of the reality that perhaps I love this man……..but he does not. It is a hard pill to swallow! Especially because I have genuinly tried everything and given everything to make this work and there is so little effort from his part. I broke up with him thinking that i was strong enough…. while i haven’t fully fallen off the wagon……. emotionally I have because I keep thinking that it can work out…..that if i am only patient enough, nice enough blah blah blah!!! I am the only one thinking this, wanting this and wishing for this— and wasting my freak’n time!!! And in the midst of all of this he has managed to manage down my expectations so much…. that I dont even get a phone call but only here and there or when he feels like it. I feel like an A** telling him that i still loved him and that I missed him. For what? Just to add more fuel to his ego? How sad I feel…. but trying to just see it as a small set back— and trying my darnest to bounce back from it!!! Thanks for your posts everyone…….. it really helps to have support and for others to “shed” some light on this.
Karen
I know how you and many others are feeling right now. I am in exactly the same boat, I didnt even have the oppertunity to walk away from my toxic relationship. To be honest I didnt really realise that I was even in one, the poor behaviour had become the norm. My boundries totaly eroded. My ex EUM didnt even have the guts to tell me it was over. He just disappeared into the night. When he resurfaced after a couple of weeks, I accepted his excuse that he had mislaid my phone number – He lived with me for gods sake!!!!!!!! Red flag number 101 that I missed.
I still miss him, or the relationship that I had imagined, not the real one.I am ashamed that I begged him to come back, that I forgave him, that I was sorry, (for what I am not quite sure) I was a door mat and he walked right over me.
I have been in NC for a number of weeks now, its hard but it works. The hard bit is that he hasnt actually broken it, hasn;t apologised, hasn’t explained what was going on in his head. I would love him to get in touch, so that I know that I wasn’t some 2 year booty call and meal ticket, that he is sorry. The hard bit is accepting that he has moved on. I have no intention of contacting him, in fact I would ignore him if he made contact, reject him like he rejected me, but unfortuantly he is that emotionally cold it wouldn’t bother him.
I have learnt a lot about myself, that he mirrors my behaviour, and that he confirms my thoughts about myself. All I can suggest is take time to understand you but dont wallow and pull things to pieces, it just makes you feel worse, keep busy, look up old friends, pick up old interests, plan new ones, and remember one day you will be ready to have a proper forfilling relationship but dont rush things.
Remember you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince!!!
Take care X
I have to say that these posts about boundaries have helped me considerably.
One boundary that I’ve just recently made is to disregard someone who deliberately avoids making sense about something. Of all the things my a$$clown did to me, the one that broke me was his evasive reply to a text message I sent. Instead of asking what the hell his nonsense message meant…I said “alright player, have it your way. Take care” He’s been randomly texting for two months since then (NC on my part).
It’s like a bulb went off in my head and I asked “do I honestly want to communicate like this for another two years????” Someone who disrespects me that much to make me wonder, guess, or second-guess what the hell he means when he said “such and such” is sooooo not worth my time anymore.
The sweet part is that with this site I truly think I’m “getting it”. I kinda see what is normal wear and tear on a relationship and what is a$$clownary!! I really appreciate the insight of Brad and John T on this site…so guys keep up with the advise.
New Year,
I am so sorry you had to deal with all of this. I sure the worst part is not knowing why, and things coming to an end so quickly.
I can’t believe the excuse that “he had mislaid my phone number.” That’s one of the worst ones yet.
Keep up the attitude, it will help you move on a lot quicker!!!!
We have to forget about thinking if these men care because in reality it does not matter. what you have to keep telling yourself is what they are offering is not enough. It’s just not enough. period. Who cares about them. I have decided to take the next six months and just think about me. I am dieting, getting back in shape, seeing a therapist, so that in six months i am ready to find someone who loves me. This is not love ladies. If you love someone you don’t give so little. I think we all want to be loved. These men can’t provide it. I think what keeps us in these relationships is that we feel like it is so personal. he does not love me. What we are failing to grasp here is these men can’t love. It doesn’t matter if you were Miss Universe they can not love. There is nothing anyone of us can do to change that. We have to asks ourselves if a friend was treating us this way would we put uup with it? Why would we want to be with someone who treats people so badly. We must stop thinking about them and start thinking about us. Whenever I start to think I just say STOP in my head and I stop. I am making a concerted effort not to think or analyze anymore. I have decided it is time to live with it and move on. Ladies we are all worth so much more! I have been there but I think I am finally seeing the light. You will too- keep posting, but seriously try as hard as you can to say stop everytime you want to analyze or wonder what he is saying. I know it is easier said than done but it works!
You know what– I hope I am finally ANGRY enough to Stop this madness because leeanne you are right— these men don’t care! I am soooo pssst right now that I allowed myself to be pulled in again into the lies that he loves me. How could I be soo naive and blind? There is nothing more to do or say other than to shut the door on this person!!! SLAM it like NML says. I just wish I could have done it sooner!! I feel somehow like he is laughing at me. Now I feel like such a fool as he got to rever once again in my spilling my guts out and telling him how much i loved him and missed him and the worst thing is that I was the one that broke it off and then sort of tried to come back by saying I still love you and miss you— in other words– it wasnt even him who pursued me—what an ego boost he must have had!!! God help me because I want so much to just be able to go back and do things differently but know that the only and best thing I can do is to IGNORE him and no longer BELIEVE a word he says!!! Ok what an A** I have been!!! I wish there was a way to get back at him (not in a violent way or anything– but im sure most of you know what i mean). Sorry everyone!! Just really psst right now and needed to vent!!! Ugh!! Sooo mad at myself!!!
ok, my ex-EUM, said “l love you” right in the middle of sex. Well course you did!! I feel for it hook, line and sinker and I remember looking at him with doe eyes. I don’t believe he meant it, just in the middle of pleasure anything is doable. My goodness. Karen, please don’t feel bad, listen girl, my ex-EUM, told me point blank that I expected too much from him.. and I stayed. He told me that he wasn’t ready for a relationship and I asked him “with me” and he looked at me with a glint in his eye but never answered but I knew the answer and it was Yes, what a turd. But you know I stayed even though he told me that. He yelled at me because I asked him what time I should be ready for a jazz brunch which was between 11:00 am and 2:00 pm. He was going to pick me up and he got super mad and said “why can’t you just be spontaneous and just let me show up when I show up”. Then he went on to yadda,yadda, about his ex-wife and what a B*tch she was and how she was late for everything and then got pissed when doctors cancelled her appointment. Guess, what that wasn’t enough for me, I stayed….. One more, he promised, yes promised to attend church with me, I had an issue that I really needed support with. Well he never showed up and didn’t call me. I was crushed and hurt. I remember talking with my Mom about it that day and she said to me, “Look dump his A$$, he is not worth this heartache. I didn’t listen. When I called him, he said he was hung over, no I’m sorry…. nothing but I stayed with him thinking that he would change plus I thought I loved him. So see you are not alone here, I could write a book about this phase of my life. I have had NC for 4.5 months now and he has not tried to get in touch with me, although he asked thru the grapevine if anyone has seen me.
I’m not claiming to know how everyone else’s EUMs react to NC but Karen be prepared to mean what you say in the event he tries to woo you back….it may happen. There may be a strong reaction on his part if he realizes it’s actually over so it will make it incredibly difficult to tell him to buzz off if your still feeling vulnerable.
Karen,
Stop beating yourself up and who cares if he is laughing or not. He is not a great person so why do you value what he thinks about you. You know you are a really good person. Now treat yourself that way. You made a mistake, don’t dwell on it, pick yourself up and make the change. We are the only ones who can change our lives. Say to yourself everyday he just can’t give me enough and I want more. The longer you stay in this the longer it will be that you find someone who is healthy and who can love you. It is just a psychological flaw these men have. It has nothing to do with anyone of us. whoever is next it will be the same. She will not be in a better position than you or have this dream relationship with him because he is NOT CAPABLE. We must accept that it is not us it is THEM
When I think about boundaries today, I realize that I didn’t have enough with my ex-EUM. I am thinking now about the present and the future and learning to have boundaries/standards that I live by…that I won’t let someone push them down or plow right through them. As some of you ladies posted…we have to focus on us now and STOP thinking about them, analyzing them, etc. Men who do not respect me will never get a chance with me. And if the ex-EUM ever tries to contact me…I AM STRONG enough to say “GET LOST” or just ignore him. No man has anything to offer me that I can’t give to myself. I realize I can give myself the love that I thought I needed HIM to give me. So, the more love we have for ourselves the better we expect to be treated and would not be desperate enough to accept crumbs and our boundaries will remain intact.
THANKS for all the encouragement!
I just keep thinking over and over- SELF RESPECT, SELF RESPECT, SELF RESPECT. It is so important and it keeps me on track. If we don’t have it or enforce it in the future we will never have a healthy relationship. It is my true belief that men fall in love with women who have self respect and boundaries. They don’t take the crap we have. I am determined to change.
also karen, if you give yourself time, to rebulid your self esteem and spirit by focusing on you, your needs, your wants. You will be better prepard should you run into another a**clown…I was physicaly and mentaly abused by my ex husband, for 10 years. It wasn’t until one christmas where he beat the hell out of me in front of all 5 of our kids that I decided to leave him. I filed for divorce and in the middle of my divorce i met my babies dad, he was a sweet talking, good looking man, that gave me the boost i needed….I refused to have sex with him, because of my spiritual beliefs of no sex before marriage, he told me it was ok to male love because he was gonna marry me, and yadda yadda yadda, after having sex 2 times i got pregnant, and he gave me the choice of keeping him or having a abortion, of course i kept my baby, and he of course kept his word…..i was hurt, devastated, and spiritualy broke..our little girl is 15 months and to see him still breaks my heart, to hear is voice kills. me and i’m constantly checking to see if i get a email, any little crumb….obviosly he cares more about himself then he ever did me, and even our daughter…had i taken the time to heal from my marriage, and fix the issues i had from putting up with an abusive jack arse, i would not have been in this mess…..i know it hurts, i’m still there…i look in my daughters eyes and i wonder how come i have to see her father looking back at me, i put her to sleep, change her, feed, her bathe her, and financialy support her, by myself, in 15 months he has seen her 21 times…and i wonder why me? why her? the relality of it is, that this relationship has tought me more then any other relationship I have ever been in..i’m learning to love myself, trust myself, and respect my self, i will never let a man talk me into doing something that i don’t believe in again, i will never allow a man to give me less then i deserve, i have set up boundries, like if a man cheats or calls me names like (whore) my babies dads favorite. the relationship is over!!!! being late and forgetting to cancel a date can be forgiven for good reasons only…if he’s in a wreck good reason to be late….someone passes away good reason not to show…an effective way to deal with a man, who does this without reason is simply to tell him ” my time is valuable and if you can’t make our date next time, call and let me know that way i can plan to do other things with my time” be friendly, don’t be bitchy, just be firm at the same time smile…if he does it again his arse is out!!…but do take time out for yourself….right now i’m working on me after he ended our relationship i dated a few times, but i new that i’ll never find the right one if the wrong guy is blocking the path…so my job now is to clear that path for the right guy….i know its scary not knowing if you will find someone else to love and care about you…believe me i do..i’m always playing the negative thoughts in my head that i’m getting older i’ll be 35 in july, i have 6 kids. yadda yadda yadda, and hey maybe i’ll be alone for awhile but thats ok atleast during this time alone i’ll have peace, i’ll find myself, and won’t be settled down with getting crumbs of attenion thrown at me..i deserve so much more, i deserve to be happy. and i can say honestly that as much as i love him, as much good times that we had, the last part of our relationship wan’t good, and i don’t want to be tied down to the drama we caused together,,,me by putting up with his crap and him for not knowing how to wipe his own ass….when problems occured between him and I he would have his mother call me, or his sister email me…wow, he’s not only a EUM but he’s obviously still needing people to clean up after him…
Thank you everyone for your advice and support!! I’m feeling much more optimistic and more determined than ever to stay on the right path. The right path meaning — taking care of me…rebuilding my self esteem and staying away from this A**clown. Not allowing him to reel me in anymore— not falling for his charm, not caring or thinking about him!!!
Jennifer and new year/new start– I feel your story and you inspire me to get through this. You had it tough girls and I truly admire how strong you were to get through it!!!
leeane: Thanks so much again and again!!! Your support and understanding are invaluable! I love this site and it is a tremendous help to know that I am not alone. That many of us share similar stories and can be there for one another here… to support and encourage eachother!! I am making a pact with myself that although I fell off the wagon (slightly–thank god and I didnt sleep with the guy again or anything!!) I can now make a better choice and start over with no contact and truly focus on the fact that no matter what– this person is damaged and will not change. That it doesn’t matter who he is with etc…etc..etc…. the point is– he isn’t good for me…and I have to keep reminding myself of that every day and not fall into the compassion role. I love you guys!!! Thanks soooo much for being there!!! I’m really going to try my darnest and hope i dont relapse— but in case i need support or advice again — I know where to look!!!xoxoxoxoxoxo
On another note– can someone help Dee? She posted on the forum “Women who think too much†seems like she can use a lot of support right now and you guys have been great with me…. so maybe someone can help?
I just read this whole thread. What was I thinking? I should have booted this idiot a long time ago. I have been dealing with the possibility of having to see him again in a couple of weeks at a conference wondering if I will be weak at the sight of him…. but now the only thing I will be thinking is that I am rather embarrased that I allowed him to treat me so badly. It will never happen again with anyone else. Thanks to everyone.
Great advice as usual NML. Best wishes to Beth and hopefully she will stick to her guns.
Hi everyone. I am dealing with a guy like this right now. He is in his late 20s (I’m in my early 20s) and was in an 8 year relationship that he just got out of 3 years ago because she cheated on him. When him and I first met 4 months ago, he told me all about that and how he was so hurt and it messed him up. He said he wanted to get back at girls and used them and played with them emotionally for the past few years. His dating track since then has been that he would be with a girl for a couple months and act so mean that they would dump him, call him an a$$hole and then move on. He laughs when he talks about this. When I met him 4 months ago, he said he realized he’s been treating girls badly and has been working on changing that. He said he hadn’t slept with a girl for 6 months and that he felt for the first time in a long time that he could actually care about someone (me). Well… him and I dated for about a month, I slept with him (regretting it now!), and he broke things off with me. Right after we met, he was pursuing me like crazy. He was sending me cute texts, calling me every night, acting sweeter and complimenting me more than any guy has ever done. I turned him down a few times because I had recently got out of something and needed time. Finally a few weeks later I agreed to a date and it went so well. He grabbed me and kissed me and said he’s never liked someone straight off the bat as he did with me. The next week was pretty good, the week after that I started seeing red flags, and it just got worse the few weeks following (texting less, calling less, stopped calling me sweety, stopped complimenting me, then the texting stopped so I asked him if he no longer cared about me and he broke it off). His explanation: I’m too young (only 6 years) and that we’re at different places in life. I accepted and moved on. One week later he texts me wanting to meet for coffee, saying he misses me. We did and kept it friendly and he said he wanted to keep the door open for us in the future and said he has too many problems to deal with (which he actually did… his mom recently came back into his life after abandoning him for 14 years, he had financial problems, and a few addictions). I caved and told him I would help him and I cared about him etc etc etc and he pushed me away saying there are so many other guys out there. I cried then left and tried to move on. 2 weeks later he calls me and I acted as if I was the happiest person in the world. He said our conversation lifted his spirits as he was feeling down that day. He head he wanted to get together with me so we hung out on friendly terms the next week for about 2 hours (we just joked around and had a good time). A week after that I was going on vacation with my girlfriends for 2 weeks and the 2 days before I left I got texts from him both days wishing me a great trip and added some sexual and flirty messages, telling me he will prove he’s a good guy when I get back, and that we will hang out when I’m home. Well.. I got home a week ago. He texted me once saying he’s been happy lately because he had a long talk with his mom about everything and he’s working through some of his addictions. We texted for a few minutes about it and then he stopped texting back. I texted him 3 days after that but he was acting really short with me (keep in mind this was the first time I contacted him first in the past 3 months!). Then, 2 days ago he texted me saying he wants to see me this week and was being really flirty. I said I’ll think about seeing him and was acting kind of rude to him because I feel like I’m being taken for a ride with this guy. I’m not sure what to do with him. I do still have feelings for him but I’m at the point where I’m beginning to realize he may be emotionally unavailable. The articles I read on this site describe his personality almost straight on. BUT, I know he actually does have personal problems. Can this excuse him from the label of a “bad guy”? I’m confused!! Can anyone else analyze this situation? Thanks for all your help 🙂
Also.. one thing that keeps me holding on a little bit is that my best friend dealt with a guy just like him and he treated her like crap for the first 4 months of their relationship (he even cheated on her). After 4 months, she put her foot down and he begged for her to stay and since then has treated her with so much respect, told her she’s the only girl who ever stuck with him through his problems ad didn’t dump him, and he is a changed man now. They have recently celebrated their 1 year anniversary and are extremely happy together. Now… how can this be explained????
ERRRRR HELLO!!!!! ADDICTONS!!! A DEAL BREAKER!! GET OUT NOW!! you cant help MAYDAY MAYDAY ABORT MISSION! put down the phone and get the hell out of his life, read my other posts!!!
Honey, you said personal problems, yes babe his personal problems, not yours. His behaviour is typical addict behaviour, not knowing his arse from his head, totally messed up, he tries to be good but cant you have to go now honsetly. He has his mum, you aint that.
Ally,
This guy is totally jerking you around!
One of the most disturbing parts of your story is his treatment of other women and laughing about it, even today. Sounds like this guy has some serious issues and is a complete user, he no concerns for anyone but himself.
I think you need to ask yourself what you have gotten from the majority of this ‘relationship’ doesn’t sound like much but it certainly sounds like he has gotten a nice little ego stroke. Honey, you’re too good for this behavior. RUN!!!!!!
I promise you there is nothing to be explained or for you to understand, figure out, its not for you to figure out. PLEASSSSSEEEE take it from a recovering addict, who had 5years wiped off of her life because of an addict, you cant do anything. Your young, please go, dont ask any questions of him and dont look back, even if you think they are ‘mild’ addictions they are not and theres plenty of time for them to evolve, they will if you stay, Helping him, its called enabling him to continue, addicts are the most selfish self centred breed of Mr Unavailables. Ask anyone here they will tell you the same. Im scared for you. xxxxxx
Rules is right! Being involved with an addict is a no-win situation. This guy sounds like a complete loser that will not have anything to offer. Don’t respond to him, he’s shown you who he really is.
Gaynor and Rules are correct. Leave him alone PRONTO.
Wishing you the best.
Please dont think we are not understanding, we truly are. If youve come to find a way to get this relationship on track, Im sorry to disapoint you, youre looking in the wrong place. We all more than understand what you are trying to nderstand, Youre probably going from friend to friend website to website searching for that one answer that will contradict us, your friends and even your own gut instinct. He is totally emotionally unavailble to you, no matter what he says, even if he downs plays the addictions, I guess its pot, alcohol, taking these is a sympton of the overall disease, which underneath the skin is a monster waiting to unleash itself. He has to get his own help. Its not for you to help him find that help he has to search it out himself. By his OWN will to quite not YOUR will for him to quit. Honey the goings been good for now, in real terms, honestly theres only heartache, waiting for you
Hello everyone. I found this site one day while I was surfing. This site is a blessing in disguise for me. I thought I was just crazy for all the stuff that I had been dealing with (with relationships). I am doing the NCR for the second time since 12/31/08. I guess second time is the charm. I am feeling more like my self and keeping this assclown away from me. I have been working out, and trying new hairstyles. Getting on with my life. Unfortunately I work with this individual. The last time I did the NCR it was a mean do me. Now I do me but I am nice (meaning that I speak good morning, hi that’s it..no conversation). I think it was you Rules who said that he would come around weeks 4 and 5 if you do not do so in another posting. And the only reason they do this is because they want something and need a ego stroke. Today, this assclown has been walking by my desk so much just begging for attention. I did not give in. I do not want to go back to that place where I loose my self again. I thank you all for your help, the comments you make, and the experiences that you bring to the table.
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all your help. Its hard to see things logically when your heart is involved in something. I know for sure if one of my friends was in this situation I would tell her to run for the hills! I think its just hard for me because he said he’s realized only recently that he needs to settle his life down. He’s stopped going out to clubs with friends, he’s getting help for his addictions (pain killers, which he only got addicted to because his doctors overprescribed and it was hard for him to get off), and he started praying because he felt his life is so out of control. I know he is no good for me but all the stuff he’s been doing to get his life on track make me realize that he KNOWS he needs to fix things. He WANTS to treat people better. He told me I was in a different category than those other girls and that he ended things with me because he didn’t want to hurt me like he did to them. He said I was too special to have to be treated that way. Another thing is that my parents are good friends with his dad. That’s how we met so I know a lot about him and good things he’s done for his family and in the community. Tell me if I’m just making up excuses!! Maybe I am but I really do see the good in him. I know that no matter what he will always be somewhat in my life because of our parents being friends. I don’t really have to see him but I will definitely hear about him and what he’s doing from my parents. Frustrating!!
I think we all saw good in our ex’s, that’s why we wasted so much of our time with these clowns.
if he knows you’re too good for him why does he keep coming back and playing these silly games?????
I will go back to his gloating as to how he treated women in the past. I think that says it all.
The question I have is: why do some men treat women like crap??? Some are not aware and are too involved in their own lives to realize, but how come some men treat girls like crap AND are aware that they are doing this AND recognize its a problem… yet they still do it? Are they afraid of getting to close so they push them away? Or are they just truly bad people??
Because we let them. They are not bad people, they are really messed up damaged people. The bottom line is we let them treat us badly. If they knew they could not get away with it and that we would not tolerate it they would most likely be more carefull in the way that they treat us and have more respect for us too. I read somewhere that you teach people how to treat you. I am a true believer. It goes back to boundaries. My ex eum disappeared for two months and then came back. I won’t accept that treatment so I ended it. That was the last straw for me.
Because we let them, and they don’t care. It’s not for us to wonder why they do it but to stay away from them. They are toxic!!!!
Yes you are making excuses for him: He only became addicted because his DR over prescribed: No he didnt have to take them, no-one forces you to use. All addicts swear they will change, alot of them know they are thinking outta whack with the rest of us. His behaviour is needy and very manipulative, in that he NEEDS you, to support him, make excuses to, because you are so understanding. Nothing wrong in seeing someones pain, or even understanding it, However, Get yourself onto an Narcotics Anon website, read about addiction they will even tell you, addicts must still be accountable for the treatment they dish out. NO EXCUSES, the more you give him, the more he will take, conciously or unconsciosly, it has to be tough love. Praying and not going to clubs is going through the motions of being clean, he’s not walking the walk, 12 steps all the way, there is no other way. Sorry Sorry Sorry, Im an addict I know please get going it doesnt matter if your dads his dads best friend, you are not accountable for this guy, look at his history, its waiting to be repeated this time your it!!! Him bleating on about Iknow this…I know that is manipulation, PROMISE, Ive done it!!! Go Go now honey. I know you love him, but whats there to love? he’s already hurt you. You’ll end up waiting for the next drama and OH joy theres gonna be plenty of them. Honey release him with love, and let him find his own way. xxxxxxx
Hi Everyone. Due to a technical fault with the previous service which notifies you by email when I publish a new post, I have had to move to a new provider. The error means you will now need to sign up to the Feedblitz service if you want to start receiving emails again. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Thanks Natalie/NML
Gaynor,
You asked the question about why do these men profess love and feelings when they don’t need to and the man and woman can keep on having sex and dates without seriousness? I have wondered the same thing myself but the truth is; your inner core and messages that you have about yourself are subconsciously being communicated to this man; if we are emotionally unavailable that puts him into persuit mode on a subconscious level and he can’t help but feel drawn to an emotionally unavailable woman (doesn’t expect, need or want anything) … However, in my opinion the reason why we don’t demand any committment while we are having fun and sex with these men (dating casually) is because either A. we truly don’t want a committment, or B. Don’t think we deserve, or too scared to be honest in what we want because we think we will lose him. So, when woman hear from the man we are having fun with “I want to be with you, I love you, etc… etc… we buy into the B.S. that we truly wanted but were to scared to ask for, or demand while we are being intimate with this man… Then when we buy into the B.S. (because we essentially got into this relationship with low self-esteem, emotionally unavailablity = attracting like minded partner) The man gets thrown off his imbalance when we actually expect him to deliver on what he is telling us… because subconsciously when he is throwing out all the B.S. he knows that we don’t think we deserve what he is saying and that is why he is drawn to say it in the first place… it’s a dance of dysfunction and when you aren’t based on a solid foundation; nothing is going to match up on a healthy emotional level.
So why does he profess love; because he knows that you can’t offer it so he is drawn to the hot and cold aspect just as we are… when we are cold, he is hot, when we are hot, he is cold… it’s because two people aren’t ready or willing to be honest with themselves and eachother and attracted eachother because of that.
Gina,
Thanks for your response but I am still a bit confused.
There are a considerable amount of men that I have read about on the site that do not profess love to women and they are EUM’s. Why do the select few deem it necessary to to express their love for us, b/c as we know they can blow hot/cold w/o uttering these words?
This is in response to Gina–I didn’t feel low self-esteem, I just felt like I didn’t want to rush so I didn’t play the game with him in the beginning. I just stood back and let him lavish me, until I found out he wasn’t serious about anything he said or did a couple of months later and so I dumped him (that’s when he began to obsess over me/ cyber stalk).
I have one of those. It started out almost identically. I was 21 and he was 25 when we started dating. He was great at first; we discussed what we were looking for before we decided to get into a relationship and it lasted for about three months before he cut it off without warning. Two years later, we’ve dated a grand total of three times and he initiated both of them. I’ve tried to cut him off but he never seems to stay gone, but he can’t and won’t commit. He’d go to great lengths to get ahold of me though. It really bothered me until the last time we dated because I was honestly in love with the guy for quite a while. Unfortunately, love tends to blind us to certain things that may be rather important in deciding whether or not a relationship is worth having with someone. Turns out he’s an emotionally/mentally/verbally abusive jerk with violent tendencies. Sadly, many women tend to ignore the the latter until the former manifests itself.
I was naive… he was my first. Just a heads up: Don’t date a divorced guy unless they’ve been divorced for a very long time and you are 100% sure that they’re over the ex. Also, friends first is a good rule. We started out that way to an extent, but it didn’t stay that way for long. I met him through friends, but it turns out that the friends that introduced me to him and encouraged us to get together didn’t know him well at all, despite growing up around him. He basically used my social circle to get to me, and to this day he only associates with them if he wants to check up on me or reestablish contact.
Bottom line: Make sure you know who you’re dating. What you see initially may not be an accurate portrayal… they are trying to impress you.
I wish I’d known this ahead of time. It would have saved me alot of pain. That kind of experience can change you… and not necessarily in a good way.
Ever since I told this man I loved him he won’t talk to me. How embarrassing for me. I’m embarrassed because It took a lot for me to actually say it to him. whoops!
We conversed almost every day for a year via blogs or emails.
He responded to everything I said except I love you. Hmmm I guess he responded to that too…He ran! He even stopped blogging for a month. I think he really was just trying to promote his music now anyway. to whoever, maybe that was his game? Make women fall in love with him and then they’ll buy his cd? Oh well, I had to at least send him the 20 bucks for the Cd he gave me. Thanks a lot!
Now his new game is playing music for the ladies and dedicating the songs to them personally.