Since then, things have been distinctly cool between the two of us and I’m afraid to say anything because each time I so much as look like I’m having so much as a negative thought he says “I hope you’re not going to spoil the evening by getting all needy on me…” Bastard! I don’t know what to do because to be honest, he has really p*ssed me off but I keep wondering if I caused this but not letting things ‘be’. Do you think I am being needy? It’s not like we’re a new relationship – we’ve been seeing each other for more than two years!
NML says: Oh…I’ve been down this road before and what we have here is a manipulative assclown who is bullying you to ensure that he gets to have carte blanche to do as he pleases.
Needy is when you are co-dependent and basically expect the sun to rise and set on him.
Needy is not asking for clarification about where you stand with the relationship because you want to ensure that you are both on the same page.
He has called you ‘needy’ because he doesn’t want to be pigeon holed into a defining a relationship with you. He wants to not only go with the flow, but go with his flow, and he doesn’t need you raining on his parade, asking him to be more committed to you.
When somebody wants to avoid putting a meaning to the relationship, it means that they want to keep things ambiguous and on their terms, and this is not a man who is suitable for a relationship and he most certainly does not have your best interests at heart.
Asking him to be ‘Consistent’ suggests that he has been ‘inconsistent’ before and his current behaviour suggests that he has no plans to change anytime soon.
I think that your guy has a bit of a dark side to him as it was particularly nasty for him to say those things and I would actually be concerned about not just how he treats you, but how he speaks to you and manipulates you into silencing your needs and your opinions.
You’re concerned about whether you’re being needy when actually you should be more concerned about whether this is a suitable mate for you that will make good long term material.
Decent guys don’t call you needy when you want to have a conversation that doesn’t suit them and to me this reeks of emotional immaturity and if you think that sticking at his side and swallowing your needs and wallowing in bullied silence will buy you a seat at the committed relationship table with him, think again.
Do not make the mistake of millions of women before you and take responsibility for his behaviour! It takes more than one conversation about the status of your relationship to create this. It’s not what you said – it’s the fact that you in saying this are creating expectations of him and the relationship that he doesn’t want you to have. In objecting to this, he is basically saying ‘I don’t want a relationship with you that is committed or consistent. It is my way or the high way.’
More importantly, it’s not what you said, it’s the fact that you have been in an inconsistent relationship with this man for over two years and by trying to extract a relationship out of an unsuitable candidate, he’s going to belittle the crap out of you so you never ‘expect’ anything again.
The guy is an assclown! Don’t worry about whether you’re needy; worry about the fact that you’re still there….
Your thoughts? What do you think Lisa should do?
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Lisa, it’s clear that the two of you aren’t on the same page regarding what you want from the relationship. And, yes, he is trying to manipulate you into thinking it’s about you and your “neediness”, when in reality, it is about him and his unwillingness to commit to the relationship. This does not show personal integrity on his part. I would dump him.
No, you’re not “needy” in the sense that he is trying to imply, but you will almost certainly become so if you continue in this relationship, and that will impact future relationships in a negative way. Get out now.
Lisa, yes, you are being ‘needy’ – you have needs that aren’t being met in your life. You are letting those needs impact your life. And he is displaying some monumental disrespect for you, in an abusive way.
His initial surprise when you broached the subject is probably pretty common – as a knee jerk reaction. That surprise (it shouldn’t be, but often is) should kick-start a good guy thinking, and coming back later with some thoughts and contributions, and be ready to discuss what your plans are.
An assclown will clamp onto a ‘cute’ phrase (‘needy’) and use it to beat you up, harass you, make you feel ashamed that you feel what family and society needs adults to feel – a need to build and live in a family. You are feeling paranoid because you haven’t seen, yet, what is needed in your relationship with him.
A good-bye.
I could have wished your thinking would have gone along the lines of , “Wow. I had suspected this guy was only interested in a perpetual date. Now I find he not only doesn’t want to build a life, he doesn’t care if I enjoy the date. I guess that is the end of this endless date.”
You ask, “I keep wondering if I caused this by not letting things ‘be’.” Yes and no. Yes, it did start because you threatened his Beach Boy dream of easy living. No, because letting things hang, or ‘go with the flow’, should *not* have been sufficient by this time, for him either. And, anyway, you wouldn’t have brought up the topic unless you were unhappy with his performance. You asked the question, he gave the wrong answer. He failed the test, now you have to flunk him, or you lose your respect as well as his.
You likely picked him because he made a fun date, and you wanted that fun to continue. Where you now want the affection to deepen into a richer life, though, all he knows or cares about is that braggable, endless date.
You can stay with him, and drag this endless date thing out for years – many do! But you have to avoid anything like what he calls ‘needy’, which *will degrade* into anything close to moral behavior and respect for yourself and others. Most people consider this kind of bondage ‘prison’, and very few flourish in that kind of relationship, but some survive, and many languish.
You have the basic choice to face – go or stay. Then you have to decide how to go, or what you have to do to stay. You have already begun training this guy to bully and manipulate you; I would be concerned that he will be reluctant to gracefully accept a ‘goodbye’. He doesn’t sound like someone that is willing to let someone else end his ‘endless date’.
Luck!
Sorry Lisa, I’m in the same sinking boat.
I like Brad K’s phrase “perpetual date”. That is what I’ve been doing for two years as well. Even now I fold under his manipulative tactics. The guy has a gift! But articles like this and others backing it up really helps, doesn’t it?
You dont want to hear it, I know. You had hopes of more. It is hard to give it up. But, like me, you have GOT to give it up. He’s going nowhere and taking you with him. You have to decide if you want to keep dating forever… Doesnt sound like much of a life.
If you are like me you just want a loving committed relationship. You will not get it from him.
Good luck girl!
After 2 & 1/2 years of perpetual dating, I am on day 3 of NC. This article is my EUM to a tee. Everytime I tried to talk about any kind of future or seeing eachother more often he would always say lets just go with the flow. I had myself convinced that I was ok with the once a week that I saw him, but I really wasn’t and it kept continually coming up. On Monday he sent me an e mail in response to one of mine that said “I like you and we have fun together”. I wrote him back that after 2 years I need more than “I like you and we have fun together” and told him it was over. He would have just kept on dating me like that forever. If you are not on the same page regarding what your expectations are for the relationship it will just keep resurfacing as various forms of disagreements.
Yeah, I’ve been in situations like this, where you get belittled for – Heaven forbid! – wanting him to have a relationship with you. The guy who did to me it most recently wasn’t quite as abrasive or rude as this assclown, but he was still condescending and just couldn’t understand why I couldn’t give him “more time” to decide – after an f’ing year and a half! I like Brad’s “perpetual date” statement.
Move on, girl. He’s SO not worthy of you. There will be others. Don’t forget – something like 90% of people in the world get married. The odds are WAY stacked in your favour – all you have to do is find a guy who’s worthy.
Dear Lisa,
Check that man. When a man cares about you and really wants to be with YOU, he makes sure that the situation, the relationship is clear to you. Check him. When a guy understands your worth and values your opinion, he does not downplay your intelligence or plays emotional games. 2 years of this, and pro’lly worse. BOO HISS BOO!!! Send him packing and do NOT forget to check him. Send him on his merry way. OH, and you DO deserve better. Some guys think that they are the prize (too many statistics out there floating around giving some of them machismo they have NEVER earned and will NEVER have) and perhaps they are. The consolation prize which apparently he is for you. Give it back. I promise, a flesh and blood Great Guy is going to come into your life soon.
Leave his ASS. What he needs is to hear the door slamming behind you.
You are “needy”. You NEED LOVE. That is your right!!
Everyone else was spot on. Don’t cling to your hopes and fantasies and memories of when he was nice. Don’t blame yopurself or take responsibility for his cruelty. His ‘change of heart’ is really just his true colors showing through. Leave him. No contact. Erase him from your life, your phone, your e-mail address book, etc. Throw out his stuff or box it up and return it all to him in one package with a terse note that he isn’ the man you thought he was, goodbye, please don’t contact you in any way again, you have lost interest and respect for him.
Next time he wants sex and you are not in the mood, tell him no. If he pressures you, give him a sneer and tell him to stop being so needy.
Dump him!! He is a jerk.
Been down this road too. These guys are master manipulators and they are good at deflecting their insecurities onto you. He called me NEEDY and a DRAMA QUEEN all because I wanted to know where he lived and that too after like being with his ass for a year. They have and will never give you any answers and if they do, it will be a dodgy “I don’t know”.
Thing is this, if our relationship was healthy, well balanced, secure – WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS.
And if we are forced too, does that not speak volumes and is an answer in itself.
Oh and Lisa by the way and I am speaking from experience. There will be many other labels he will come up with everytime you corner him and believe it or not like Brad says, it WILL have an impact on your self esteem not him. You will keep toying with it in your head like I did trying to better, trying to something he wants while the real you goes slowly into a shadow of something else and after awhile you just don’t who you are anymore.
Lisa lose him but do not lose your self and who you are.
Yep. He’s manipulating you by making you think the problem is you when, in reality, it’s him. After 2 years, you have every right to know where the two of you are going. Where you should be going is in the opposite direction.
I just ended it with an EUM who did exactly what he did to you, Lisa. After 2 years, he got worse and worse. He used to be able to talk about the relationship, even if it was a bunch of excuses telling me why he can’t commit, blah, blah, blah. He had every excuse in the book. I think he finally ran out of excuses and because I broke up with him a few times and kept coming back without commitment, he took carte blanche to begin to treat me worse and worse. He would stonewall me and not talk to me everytime I had some kind of need or wanted to express how I felt about something he did. He would make me feel like there was something wrong with me and get defensive and then not talk to me for a few days for punishment. This time I’ve ended it for good and I have been working on recovering my self-esteem which had hit pretty much rock bottom. Being with a man like this is so degrading. Intellectually I knew it, but all he would have to do was sneeze and I would jump to his beat. Once my eyes opened up wide I see him for the creep he really is. I used to think well he doesn’t want the kind of commitment I want (it was one long endless perpetual date for 2 years), but at least he cares. I am wrong, he doesn’t care about me at all. I overlooked so much poor behavior that it makes me sick to think I was so desperate for love and a relationship that I put up with it. It took a few months of going to therapy and looking at my issues about commitment and self-esteem before I was strong enough to end it again. And I didn’t even tell him I broke up with him…just ignored his last e-mail…and he never wrote back or called since I did that in the beginning of this week…you can see how much he cares for me and my feelings. LISA, please RUN from this bastard…you are too good for him…they will tease you and manipulate you into feeling less than they are and having all the control because you want something they aren’t giving you.
A direct and honest relationship will allow you to ask this question without having to feel like a criminal and a direct and honest man will tell you an honest answer not one where you are to be blamed for being needy.
Reading Lisa’s story struck a familiar note with me. I too was in a “relationship” that just seemed to float along. Whenever I asked about the status of our relationship or tried to discuss it he would get angry and defensive, saying “What now Cynnie” or “Not again!” Thing is, we never discussed it because he was “busy”, wanted to talk about it later, refused to answer or gave the “I don’t know” response.
I thought maybe I ought to wait a bit longer, be more patient, try harder. It didn’t work. I used to believe that any moment now things would get better. Reading the comments here, especially the post by Finally Seen the Light, has mobilised me to take action and reclaim my life, dignity and self esteem. I had broken it off with him and maintained no contact for 3 weeks.
Being the charmer and manipulator that he is, he wormed his way back to me and I stupidly took him back. One of my grouses was his persistent lateness. That time when we “talked” he was punctual, and told me it was all a part of his trying to “improve”. (And yes, I slept with him. Smack me with a splintered ruler!)
By the next week he was back to his old ways, not calling and of course, the relationship was never discussed. And why should he? I was willingly to sleep with him without committment and accepted his rubbish time and time again.
Reading this post was like looking at a snap shot of my life. I nodded my head in agreement that Lisa should dump that man and get on with her life. Then I realised that I needed to take my own advice as well. I know it will be hard Lisa, wondering “what if” and wondering if you’ll ever find someone to love. You, just like me, need to forget about “when he was nice” and look at how he is NOW.
I intend to take my own advice and leave that assclown that is allegedly my “boyfriend” and move on with my life. I suggest that you do likewise.
You GO Cynnie!!! I know how hard it is and I tried NC many times. Reading alot of books on Self-Esteem helped me tremendously to get stronger. The one I recommend is “How to Raise Your Self-Esteem” by Nathaniel Branden. I just began doing the writing exercises in the book. This has helped me to remain strong. I was feeling weak tonight and then I came read your comments and it helped. Thanks to all of you!
I’m trying to focus on how he treats me overall and not on the “fun times.” Ladies…We can keep eachother strong.
Thanks for the encouragement Finally Seen the Light.
I tried one more time to have a discussion with my boyfriend about the status of our relationship. Deep down inside I already knew the answer but I needed him to say it. I also knew what the outcome would be, but I guess I needed to “know” once and for all that he is an assclown before I could hand him his walking papers.
I would have prefered to speak with him in person, but he is soooo busy with work, home, friends, his car and whatever that I didn’t bother to ask as I knew what the answer would be.
So I texted him and reminded him that we still needed to talk (oh how he cringes at that phrase!) Just as I predicted, he wanted to know “what now.” I told him that it was very important to me and our relationship that we discuss some of the things that were bothering me. He never responded to the text.
I texted him about 90 minutes later and let him know that he just confirmed what I already suspected: that he didn’t give a rat’s a$s about me. I told him to leave me alone and that was that. He didn’t respond to that text either. Shows just how much he “loves” me huh?
I was hoping that he would say that he was sorry and that he wanted to work things out. Something. But that is not his modus operandi. He will ignore me for the next 2 weeks then call me like nothing has happen. Hopefully I will learn from past experience and be prepared for him. I will try the NCR again and this time keep it firmly closed so as not to hear whatever line he’ll dangle at me too woo me back for more mistreatment. Yup, he knows how to push my buttons.
I can’t live in the past anymore, reflecting on the nicer times that we shared. I am slowly accepting that this is it – nothing with him. I’m tired of the uncertainty. Of his utter lack of concern about my feelings. Of never knowing when he’ll call. I’m upset by the person that I’ve become, twisting somebody’s arm for their affections. Well no more!
I know it will be tough and I’m keeping busy to get over this.
I just re: read my post for errors (always seem to miss them!) and I felt embarrassed as I re- read my post. I can’t believe that I tolerated his rubbish for 11 months!
Keep your fingers crossed and wish me luck, wisdom and strenght.
To you folks out there, remember that you are MUCH stronger than you think.
Strenght. Power
.
Cynnie, stick with NC this time for good – for you – or this game will go on forever.
I played it for over 3 years…you know how it ended, right?
Good luck.
CYNNIE…we can be strong together. My EX hasn’t even tried to contact me and that hurts too! But he is doing me a favor. I’ve been working on building my self esteem and this has helped. Also, I am CERTAIN this time that I am not going to put up with this kind of treatment from him or any man. So, if he does contact me…I know that I will not fall for his BS, because that is all it is. His true feelings and his true colors have been evident by his actions which have shown me over and over and over that he doesn’t love me, doesn’t care and is just using me. I was living in a fantasy world focusing on the “fun, sex and good times” we had. But any man who is not concerned about how I feel and if he’s upset me is not a man I will choose to be with. I had to do a lot of work with my issues…I began therapy and have been working on my issues and my past patterns in relationships, plus how I grew up and how I viewed myself. I was operating out of fear, not trusting myself, thinking I was not good enough and that’s what got me into this type of a relationship. A lot of what I found out was not conscious thoughts, they were deep and buried and have been there for a long time. I am 46 years old. I have been divorced twice and have been hurt many times. It’s the way I processed the hurts and what I told myself that gave me low self esteem when it came to men. The road is long and hard to get to the bottom of my issues, but I’m working on it everyday and feeling lighter and optimistic. I didn’t realize how needy and desperate I was to be loved and that is what kept me in this last relationship. As I learn to replace the negative thoughts and alleviate fears and trust myself again, I feel lighter and happier and I don’t care about being in a relationship. I care about being true to myself and being happy. With all of this work on myself, I still have my moments, but I am confident that I can get through them and know that I’ll never give that assclown or another assclown an opportunity to play their childish, immature games with me. Thank you again everyone for helping me to see the light and stay strong!!!
Another thought…any good guy that really cares would not be ambiguous, too busy, not express how they feel about you and not care about your feelings…they are all too anxious to make sure that you know how they feel about you and that their actions show it. They will do nice things for you to show you they are thinking about you…let’s remember the reality of a nice guy….DRAMA is not a part of the equation and neither is ambiguity, being too busy, forgetting to call, not following through on what they say, not being involved in your life, not being involved with your family and friends…Ladies…let’s change our definition of a sexy guy to one who makes you feel good when are with him or not with him…not like these assclowns who are only concerned about themselves!
I know that I’m being sensible by cutting this sorry excuse for a man loose. Then why do I feel so horrid? I have to keep re-reading Lisa’s story and the advice dished out to reassure myself that I’ve done the right thing. I have to remind myself of the many times he disappointed me and stood me up.
I was tempted to call him and then I stopped. I realised that not hearing from him was nothing new, but at least now, I wasn’t hearing him because I wanted to. It was now on MY terms. I am the one applying it.
Keep your fingers crossed for me.
*Determined.*
My ex eum contacted me after 10 days of NC. I wrote a long email explaining that I didn’t want to continue the relationship due to him not wanting a meaningful relationship and I needed to move on and time to mend and hopefully down the road we could be friends…well 2 days after that he contacts me again to say hi and I didn’t spoke briefly to him…I was thrown off and in my mind it started thinking…oh, maybe he misses me…but I realize that he is only doing this for him to keep a foot in the door…how silly of me to even go there in my mind. I was so strong with NC and then he just has to sneeze and I am starting to ponder that it could work out…but I’ve come to the realization that he’s just not respecting my feelings as usual and I have to tell him that or just not respond at all……This is a long journey and I won’t give up…but these assclowns really make it hard…it’s funny how he wasn’t paying much attention to me while dating and now he’s up my butt….typical, huh?
Tsk tsk! These fellas like to wait until you are almost healed and then pounce with their promises of “will do better, will try harder” blah blah blah tripe.
I know that in these types of situations NCR is the best way to go, but it was awhile before I could implement it. Before I would get so mad that I would text/call and give him a piece of my mind. It felt good for a little bit (about 20 seconds) and then I would feel upset all over again. Why?
Because EUM still didn’t get it or he didn’t care. Deep down inside I would hope that this time around he would understand how he was hurting me and try to work things out. As if! I’ve stopped with this crazy behaviour, though I’m tempted at times to call him.
BTW, my EUM is telling me how much he loves me and misses me. Yup, he sends me these texts just when I think I’m over him. I wonder how he can love me but not want to discuss/address certain issues in our relationship. Then I realise I already know the answer – he doesn’t love me. Never mind the loud declarations of “love”- it’s just noise.
FSTL, have nothing to do with him. Don’t email him and give him that perverse satisfation of knowing that you are still hooked on him. Any response, wheter to scream, cry or explain is engery wasted that could be channeled towards healing yourself. Plus you don’t want him showing your email(s) to his friends, right?
*Acceptance*
Thanks Cynnie…I needed to hear that…my ex-EUM has never told me he loves me…I think the only thing he understands is when I totally ignore him. NC is the way to go…I have to focus on me!!!!!!!!!!
FSTL
I can totally relate to what you’re saying re: EUM’s responding when they are being ignored. True, true true.
Mr. EUM would frustrate me. I would say “enough.”‘ Cynnie would leave EUM. He would let her cool off for a few days. He would woo back Cynnie. She would return. Repeat as needed.
I always went back because I love him and hoped that this time would be different. Maybe this would be the time that we could finally be the happy couple that I envisaged.
Not to be.
I am slowly accepting that it is over. He can’t/won’t love me as I need and I’m tired of the empty promises and never ending wait. Waiting for a phone call. Waiting for him to commit. Waiting for him to take me out. Enough already!
It’s hard FSTL, I won’t deny that. And I still falter. What if THIS time he REALLY means it and I blow it? Then inner sensible me says that he had ample time to love me and that I’ve got to draw the line some time.
I’m focusing on me and trying to get over this sh^t of a relationship. I’m still grieving and at times I get verrry angry. If I knew that he was truly changed I’d be back in a hearbeat, I won’t lie. But I KNOW he won’t change so it’s a done deal for me that it’s OVER.
*Stay strong.*
I would agree with other pp’s and say DUMP HIS ASS NOW! Then again, it would be a bit hypocritical of me as I know it’s not so easy once you’re tangled up in it. But, I recognize on an intellectual level as well, that it’s simply wrong for a man or anyone to treat us the way they do. We need to end the cycle already.
My situation is probably more complicated because I have a toddler with this EUM who’s now been living a 3 hr plane ride away for the past 6 months. We don’t have many conversations of any importance but when it’s convenient he’ll consider me his significant other and the rest of the time he’s mostly focused on his own need to make money. He visits almost every month and stays with us cause he does pay the rent. That’s my problem right there… I depend on him financially to a great extent and it’s what keeps me lingering.
He happens to be in town for a month throughout the Holidays and already less then 48 hrs since his arrival he’s already left the apt to go stay at his parents with our toddler and has banned me from spending time with him during his stay at a villa he rented (based on my recommendation) which was intended for us to spend some vacation time next week.
I plan on having a good time with family during the Holidays but I admit it saddens me that it won’t be together with my toddler and dad as I was expecting, now I have to figure out what to do with my son from my first and so far only marriage. Well, that Ex at least wasn’t EUM just an ahole!