The ‘active down-trader’ is breaking their back and rolling themselves out to be in a relationship that detracts from them – they’re chasing a high and the remote possibility of the reward of eventually being the exception to a shady rule.
The ‘passive-downtrader’ is a passenger in the uncomfortable comfort zone, believing this is as good as it gets on the last chance saloon, or ruminating privately about why they’re not good enough to change the person or have a better relationship, while being too afraid to actually positively focus on themselves and do something that gets them out of their uncomfortable comfort zone.
A healthy relationship shines inside and out, whereas an unhealthy partnering may appear to glitter but be somewhat empty on the inside. It may leave you grubby or even outright filthy and even when it’s over, it may take some time to scrub off the grime so that your true self can shine through.
If anything, a relationship will enhance what already exists. In a healthy relationship, the mutuality will let your characteristics, qualities, and values exist, grow and mature. In an unhealthy relationship, it will actually enhance less attractive characteristics, qualities and values.
This is why relationships serve as lessons to teach us about ourselves. If we don’t heed the lessons in what can quite frankly be our own relationship insanity, the lesson will keep coming back like a bad habit or relationship that you just can’t flush. Cue Richard Pryor saying “What does that one chunk want?”
When someone keeps lying to you and they have further opportunities to keep lying to you, your relationship acts as a mirror to show you that you need to stop lying to yourself and being a receptive sponge for their lies.
When someone keeps treating you without love, care, trust, and respect, your relationship acts as a mirror telling you to wake the hell up, step in and treat you with love, care, trust, and respect because you’re staying right now because you love them more than you love you.
Relationships are also an opportunity to grow, positively, whatever the outcome of them. What you don’t want is to actually regress or become stunted by remaining in an uncomfortable comfort zone.
When you’re genuinely happy and comfortable, you seek to do more of the things that make you happy. You want to be the best you can be, not because it might win someone over, but because you’ve already learned that doing right by you helps you and your relationship when you’re in a healthy one.
What you don’t want to persist in, is being in a relationship or relationships that have you trading down. They shouldn’t cost you peace of mind, your friends, family, your home, health, job, money that’s either swindled out of you or that you squander, your self-respect, self-care, trust, or ability to love.
They shouldn’t cost you your integrity because without it, you don’t have what makes you you. A relationship shouldn’t and mustn’t cost you you.
You don’t need someone and a situation disconnecting you from your beauty inside and out, your intelligence, kindness, maturity, your emotional honesty, your general honesty, your values, your plans, goals, dreams, desires, and more.
You don’t need someone short-circuiting you and you certainly don’t need to be trying to do it for them.
They’re not worth it and they’re just not that special and you’ll notice, no-one is trying to short-circuit themselves for you. That’s not because you’re not worthy or valuable or good enough, or whatever depleting label you want to put on it that makes it about you in an inverted ego issue kind of way – it’s because any relationship that requires you to deduct you from the proceedings and to engage in behaviour and thinking that detracts from you, isn’t love. It’s a massacre. It’s self-obliteration but it sure as hell ain’t love.
Love isn’t about having the power to change someone or becoming an entirely different person and erasing who you are to accommodate what you think the whims of someone else are. Having your life based on moving goalposts and appointing someone as a higher authority in your life is a precarious and painful existence.
This isn’t as good as it gets and your last chance saloon hasn’t gone. Your time isn’t up until it’s up, which means you’ve got life left in you right now to make a difference to your own life. If you were happy selling yourself short in your traded down life, you wouldn’t be complaining and feeling the effects of treading water in drama and stress and/or silencing your own needs.
A relationship isn’t going to fall out of the sky tomorrow and land in your lap. Take a few months out, put 110% effort into focusing positively on you which includes nurturing you, being compassionate to you, learning to trust and like you, forgiving you, and breaking old ties and habits. When you’re genuinely happy and at peace within, you will be able to recognise healthier opportunities instead of using turmoil as a primary driver. Give yourself time and a chance – give yourself you.
Your thoughts?
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When you’ve had a few of these crappy date (or ambiguous hangout date) experiences it is easy to feel like one should just give up and accept crumbs.
After my epiphany bad experience with a barely-off-the-ground-no-title-what-is-this, which blew up my self esteem, identity and collapsed my belief system (what? everything I believed about how people act and the world is wrong? *reality slap*) I banned all dating , and have done this now for 5 months.
Breaking bad habits of a lifetime and recovering from an epiphany is time consuming, unfamiliar, uncomfortable hard work. The first three months were terrible, a mix of bored anxiety, but as I recovered I felt better about myself and actually made lots of friends who spend time with me and care about me, incidentally, MUCH more than almost ANY of these AC dates I have been on!
Sometimes we just need to take a decent break and stop dumping on ourselves.
Beautiful… I am sure you are psychic… or maybe it’s a weird synchronicity of the universe thing! xx
You made me beam a big smile Becky xxx
>>Love isn’t about… becoming an entirely different person and erasing who you are to accommodate what you think the whims of someone else are. Having your life based on moving goalposts and appointing someone as a higher authority in your life is a precarious and painful existence. This isn’t as good as it gets and your last chance saloon hasn’t gone. << Thank you for this. I'm 43 and have been struggling with the above issues. As Shakespeare wrote, thanks [again, Nat]... and ever thanks.
Hey Heather, damn right your last chance saloon hasn’t gone at 43! Never think and act like a woman with none or only a few options – it’s like stealing your own wind!
this reminds of my GF and what she was doing in her relationship with the piece of garbage man she is still involved with. Yes i said still involved with.
MOF she hasn’t heard from this man in 6 months and recently she decided to contact him(What a big mistake on her part)and this was his response…
“I still feel that you deserve a man that can be with you all the time, not someone, like me, who can only come by every now and then.”
“I had hoped, in a strange way, that you would have found someone to fill the void left during my absence, but the selfish side of me wants
no one else to stroke that p**** and ass but me…..”
and by her responding he now knows that she HASN”T moved on and has yet another opportunity to go back and use her.
what gets me is she doesn’t believe he will be back. Oh but he WILL.
The battle rages on inside……
Oh debbie my friend you are so right, He’ll be back.
Debbie, It’s hard enough going through it ourselves. I imagine it must be hell watching a loved one/friend go through it.
I thought that I’d ad that years ago I had a gf who became involved with an abusive alcoholic. I couldn’t stand it. I had to cut the friendship. These things can be hard all around.
Debbie, that man is vile but you’re right that he’ll be back in touch because he has no shame. *No* shame. It galls me that she even responded! Sadly if your friend wants to be desperate, you won’t stop her. No amount of shagging will convert this man though. I’ve seen women do this for years – I hope she sees sense and her self-respect soon.
and all this came from a seemingly innocent email in which she just wished him and his family a Happy Thanksgiving.
you wrote this for me, I know LoL 😀 I’m going to recite it out loud this evening, during my Friday nite date w/myself
Haha Anoosh! I hope you’ve had a great weekend and yes Anoosh – stop trading yourself down!
Gosh, you keep blowing me away with these articles. Thank you! From the bottom of my heart, thank you! <3
You’re very welcome Charlene x
“If anything, a relationship will enhance what already exists. In a healthy relationship, the mutuality will let your characteristics, qualities, and values exist, grow and mature. In an unhealthy relationship, it will actually enhance less attractive characteristics, qualities and values.”
A great reminder, Natalie. We all have ‘sides.’ Some people bring out the best in me, I’m relaxed and can crack wise and feel outgoing and generous; others have me doubting myself, feeling like I’m being assessed, and generally bring out the Magnolia that grovels to be liked and then is bitchy about it later.
Up to me to keep putting myself in situations that remind me of what I bring.
Ah! I’m glad you see it Magnolia that not all people generate these same feelings in you. With this comes freedom because while you can of course try to look at why you feel as you do around them, you can equally opt to invest your energies where you feel good.
“A relationship isn’t going to fall out of the sky tomorrow and land in your lap. Take a few months out, put 110% effort into focusing positively on you which includes nurturing you, being compassionate to you, learning to trust and like you, forgiving you, and breaking old ties and habits. When you’re genuinely happy and at peace within, you will be able to recognise healthier opportunities instead of using turmoil as a primary driver. Give yourself time and a chance – give yourself you.”
Thank you Natalie for the constant message of nurturing me, being compassionate to me. I’m starting to get how I need to nurture me. It is really hard though cos I have always been focused on my daughter’s well-being and the well-being of some random asshole male. Since my daughter is now a young adult and there is no asshole male in my life, I only have me. It is weird. It is just me.
Yikes, I don’t remember the exMM’s birthday. I know it is the first week in December but I forgot the day. Guess I won’t be sending a text on his B-Day since I don’t remember the day!!! I am really struggling with remembering whether it is the 3rd, the 5th, or the 8th. Oh well. It doesn’t matter when his B-Day is. More importantly, I forgot!
Good for you runner! The mind is a lovely thing. You reminded me that today is my old “anniversary” – at least, I think it was today! It was the first week of Dec … three days after, or before, the 6th? … Like you, I honestly am not sure anymore what day it was! And I’d forgotten. Wahoo!
Hey Mag, good for us we have forgotten these seemingly important days. I still can’t figure out the day of his birthday. Here’s to forgetting and forgiving!
There is a part of me that wants to remember. I just can’t. Oh well. It’s so about me now.
And I no longer have the EUMs mobile phone number memorized in my head..it’s like I was shone on by the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind…!
I think that’s brill that you don’t remember his birthday a year later – that’s major progress Runnergirl! It can often take a few birthdays for people to forget – your mind is busy plus I suspect it’s your subconscious looking out for you. It’s saying “Runnergirl, you’ve already given two years of your life to this clown, forget his birthday – he’s not worth it!”
I only remember two exes birthdays and that’s only because they’re dates associated with something else. I can’t even remember the surname of one now!
Thank you so much for this post, I am going to read it again tomorrow, I’m on my way to bed now but I can honestly say that I have finally learned my lesson, that I am worth it. I was single for 13 years as I was bringing up my child by myself as the man I married was physically, emotionally etc abusive to me so I didn’t trust my judgement then I met the AC/EUM and after nearly 6 years and after finding this site I have realized that he is probably the most dishonest person I have ever met and even though it is painful right now, I am well rid of him. I was told by my therapist that we are re-presented with lessons in life until we learn them, well, I am now in my forties and have finally learned the lesson that I am good enough, that I am as good as the next person and all I have to do now is keep reading the posts on this site, put the work in and everything is gonna be fine.
Great stuff Karen. That’s two very difficult experiences you’ve been through but the difference now is that how you feel about you has totally moved on from those experiences – that’s progress. I see people take huge breaks from dating only to get very hurt in a similar or worse experience – they’re fundamental beliefs and habits hadn’t really changed. In fact, the break itself can cause the next relationship to feel like being given crackers in the desert after not eating for a while – it feels like the best meal you ever had or a great meal but it’s just crackers.
“In fact, the break itself can cause the next relationship to feel like being given crackers in the desert after not eating for a while – it feels like the best meal you ever had or a great meal but it’s just crackers”.
Having been single for 8 years before my last (epiphany) ex came on the scene, I can assure everyone that this is *so* true, Natalie! Great analogy! I really do think this last one hurt so much more and actually became my epiphany relationship *because* I’d been in what I then still believed was the desert of singledom for so long. I had started to (subconsciously) beat myself up for not being part of a couple and to believe that I was not worthy of a decent relationship. It truly is all down to attitude and self-belief/self-love/self-care/self-respect, and not gratefully accepting a few crumbs of attention as if they were a full loaf. It was clearly not good for me to be that desperate, and now I’ve removed those rose tinted specs I can see he was patently not that great. Whenever I start to feel down and/or despondent now, I keep hearing you reminding us that our lives haven’t finished yet, so literally *anything* can happen if we put ourselves out there beyond our comfort zone, and get on with genuinely enjoying everything the world has to offer for its own sake.
Nat,This post has come at a time on my life when I am struggling not only from the ended relationship,but the addiction I have suffered for years.
I have been a compulsive Gambler since the age of 16,I have realized that I do it to escape reality,to cover up my insecurities,my stress,which in the end makes it worse.
I have had some clean time,and while I know that alot of my relationships ended due to this,this last one,was not the case.I had stopped,But I find now, and you talked about squandering money,well I am at the forefront of this shit again.
I am in no means blaming this man for this,I had this there far before him,however,since the dissapearing,I am so horribly hurting inside,and thinking I can find some peace for awhile I gamble..
This is so hard for me to say to you all,as I find this place one of the important parts of my life right now,but I needed to be honest…
I am sqaundering money,feeling so depressed and unworthy,and unable to forgive my self..I am reaching out for help,I am seeing a therapist,and I will get better,I guess I needed to be honest,I feel ashamed and embarrased to tell you all this,and I hope I wont be judged to harshly,I just feel so alone….
Brenda
Brenda, first of all ((((big hugs))))
Let me say something to you now which will I hope make it easier for you to be compassionate to yourself and start doing what you really need:
You see readers who are with married guys, or keep going back to an unhealthy relationship or even use someone to buffer them and pass time while they’re hurting, or ’embark’ on a fantasy relationship?
That’s like when you go back to your gambling.
You’re trying to make yourself feel better internally with something externally. The gambling like an affair acts like a pain killer, a sedative or even an upper. The gambling is a distraction from you, the pain and your experiences. In the moment.
Afterwards, realising that you’ve gambled leaves you feeling crappy and worthless, feeding the self-fulfilling prophecy. Then you have to get away from those feelings and so the cycle starts again.
I was watching The Wire last night and a drug addict said that he wanted to be clean more than he wanted to be high.
The trouble with things that give you a short term fix is that they feel good in the moment and even give you a honeymoon feeling afterwards, but they have an effect. You will be financially impacted, it may cost you the respect of friends and family, but it has an emotional and physical tole on you too.
You have to want to be healthy more than you want to be high.
This means that you cannot keep trying to run away from or numb yourself to your problems. You can’t keep trying to run from yourself and your pain.
You can get past this. I’d challenge anyone who has been involved with an abusive narc that disappeared not to ‘go off the rails’ somewhat.
After I broke up with my manipulative, controlling ex, I took cover with the attached guy. I didn’t even recognise myself and felt worthless and then would go to him to make it all better which would last about a shag or a day then the loathing would return.
Keep getting the professional support but I would look at getting some extra help to support you through the breakup and come to terms with your ex. Getting your head even somewhat straight makes it easier to resist the urges.
My urge to be happy more than embroiled in an affair arrived when I realised I literally could not take the risk of him ever hurting me again after my panic attack.
When I had the epiphany about all of my relationships, I vowed I would never, ever allow myself to be in these situations again. I’ve made good on the promise. You must commit to you too but accept that it will be hard before it feels better. But you can feel the worst of these feelings and come out the other side. I’d also work out on paper what you *should* be doing instead of gambling. Mine was focusing on my health, setting boundaries, putting some family situations to rest etc.
Dearest Nat,
I cannot tell you How scared I was to tell you all this.
I am so thankful and relieved at all the outpouring of Love I have been shown.
You are absolutely right,I want to be Healthy more than this sickness.I want to look in the mirror and see what others see in me,I have some great freinds.
I look back and can see how my addiction has sabotaged most of my relationships.I see that when I say that I am taking the blame and responsibility of thier own actions…I need to stop the twisted thinking!
I think it has been so difficult for me to see things clearly as for so long I have focused soully on my addcition and what it has done to my selfesteem,insecurity,and love for myself..
Today I did not gamble,and I am not going to come hell or high water!!!
Thanks again Nat,You inspire me to a better person…
Brenda
Hi Brenda (from a fellow Canadian),
I’m so sorry to hear you’re hurting. Addiction (it sounds like we can call it addiction) is so lonely – you’re lonely, you hurt, you go do the thing, then you’re so embarrassed, you withdraw, you get lonelier, you hurt more, do more of the thing, etc. There are a couple things I do compulsively and more often than not the shame afterward is hardly worth the emotional boost, but of course in the moment, I’m always willing to pay the price later for the high now.
I think it’s great that you brought that side of you here. Sometimes I feel ‘addicted’ to BR, but so the eff what. It’s like a good compulsion, that always leaves me more grounded after, like a workout. I try to direct some of that panicked-grab-for-a-soother energy here.
I realized this month how stress made me long for my relationship-crack. How if it were there I would have wanted it. 13 months of NC and suddenly, a pang to drive by his house.
What drives us to our compulsions, whether they be for bad men or other ways bad emotional highs, is what we are here to discover. I’m in a 12-step program – it helps. But sometimes I think that it’s the constant putting the focus back on me that I get through BR that has brought some real change, including easing up some of the anger and anxiety that send me into compulsive behaviour.
We’re here for you. You can kick a habit to the curb, just like you can an AC.
And thanks Natalie for your great response to Brenda.
Mags,
Thanks so much for your words..I am crying as I am writing this,because you all cared enough about me…When I could not do it myself..
I am so thankful for you and this site,and that I can be honest and upfront without judgement..
I will struggle for awhile,I know that,but I am taking a step right now today,to end this insanity..
I will surround myself with this site,as here I Know you are all my freinds,you know my feelings,my thoughts,my fears,my highs and lows,and I dont have to feel bad for having them,I just have to get better!
Lots of love and hugs….
A fellow CANADIAN!!!!
Brenda
Brenda you are not alone, we’re here for you. No need to feel ashamed about anything, you’re human just like the rest of us. We all make mistakes but the good thing is we can change our lives.
What I took from reading your post is you’re a woman who is taking steps to feel better and make her life better. It took courage to tell us, I hope you’ll keep using that courage as you go forward.
My best to you.
Thank you so much Mary,I was terrified to open up to you all,but I am so glad I did…Today is a new and wonderful day,and I am taking steps to change..
Hugs..
Brenda
Brenda,
I think you are very brave to ‘declare’ to the world that this is your addiction and I just want to *hug* you and say, I agree with Natalie and the other women here that, yes indeed, most of us are lost in our addiction at some point, and we’re all fighting to make sense of it and move on. I have very recently engaged with some very shameful and hurtful behaviour, because I was hurting. I felt alone and lost, said and did some things that were spiteful and disrespectful, ‘wobbled’ and now I have to manage the consequences. It’s very hard not to ‘manage’ the consequences by indulging in yet more shady behaviour, because that’s the quick fix to my problem. I feel vulnerable and very sad right now. Hopefully, by posting here and finding positive things to focus on, I will get through.
There’s a great line in the film ‘Postcards from the Edge’, where Meryl Streep’s character is asked about her drug addiction, and she says, “sometimes I want to do them so bad, I have to put my head down ’till it passes… ”
I think coming here is, for me, a bit like putting my head down ’till it passes…
Stay strong everyone x
I felt you huge Hug!!
Thank you so much for taking the time and reading my message..
I can change this,You and all the women and men on here inspire me to be all that I can be..I did not gamble today..Its a great feeling!!
Much love..
Brenda
Brenda, owning up and facing your issues and sharing them is bringing shady to light and is healing in itself. I think Nat’s right in all that she said. You are brave and loving and can whip the issues with self care and lots of work. You are worth it.
I am worth it!!I dont know how to thank you for thinking that of me,I am really taken aback at all the love I have felt on here and I want you to know that you are so worth it to me…..
Brenda
Hi Brenda, I’m with the others in offering support and hugs to you. Natalie’s response to you summed up everything for me: “You have to want to be healthy more than you want to be high.” Everytime I got “high” by selling myself down the river with the exMM, I was down trading. I was the lowest of the bottom feeders, an OW. You can forgive yourself and turn things around. Natalie’s constant messages regarding self-care is working for me. Take care of yourself. I’m still struggling too but I want to be healthy more than I want to be high. The high was followed by an incredible low. After a year on BR, I can’t believe that I was that woman. Why would I down trade? It really is true: “When you’re genuinely happy and comfortable, you seek to do more of the things that make you happy. Natalie, your response to Brenda is amazing and so helpful. Many hugs to you Brenda. We are here.
I feel complete admiration for your bravery and honesty in putting that out there Brenda. Any wound heals quicker when its exposed to the Sunlight…
Light shine on you.
Lynda,no truer words spoken…My Mom stopped over lastnight,and we read all the posts!
As long as I kept “my dirty little secret” I will be unclean…You are truly amazing,I read all your posts,and I simply think your awesome..
Brenda
Oh Brenda, I feel for you and I’m sending you a big massive bear hug and wrapping you so tight in my arms that you can barely breath but so that you feel so safe and warm and just for a moment you can relax and forget all your troubles ((((hugs))). I am a member of alcoholics anonymous, unfortunately, that’s where I met the man who is breaking my heart but it is also where I got clean and sober and that was nearly 6 years ago. Twelve step programs aren’t for everyone I know but it is the only thing that has worked consistently for me. I used to control my addiction to a massive degree as I was bringing up my child alone but it meant that I was only ever at best living half a life so eventually after so much pain and loneliness I sought help from AA and as I said, it has worked for me. I actually went out last night with a bunch of folks from AA and I am so grateful as yesterday was so painful I could do little more than cry but getting out and having some fun made a huge difference although I am feeling very sad again today. I have noticed it is worse when I don’t go out as I live by myself and live in the middle of nowhere and I have only just moved here so don’t know many people, I am not working and my family and friends live nearly 200 miles away but I do have hope now that things are going to be ok and if I could share that hope with you I would gladly do so. You responded to me on this site so I am eternally grateful to you, I just hope that knowing somebody is thinking about you and cares for you helps. I’m routing for you Brenda, take care, lots of love Karen
Karen..
Thank you for sharing about AA…Gambling is much like drinking,its one in the same,just different means..
I have done it so long I dont know much different,I gambled no matter how I was feeling,happy,sad,high,low,it didnt matter.
I have had clean time before and it felt great,but honestly,I never “FIXED” Brenda…I would just go thru the motions..
And then when I was out of my comfort zone,ie meeting someone new,feeling I can do this responsibly..WHAM…I was back in the high again…
This addiction has also mananged down my expectaions of a healthy person,as I was so unhealthy..
This last joke of a man,was so clearly wrong for me,but I addicted to him..I took things to a whole new level,accepting his shit as I was so insecure about everything.There were times I wanted to tell him about my addiction,but now I am glad I didnt as he would have used that against me.
I have a great freind who is an AA member for years,and he tends to date within the group.Im not sure if this is a good thing or not,I cannot judge that as I dont know,But I do know that all my freinds relationships have not worked out,some long term some short,I think it is definately harder when dealing with addictions to truly know if one is healed,I know its easier to relate to people who have the same commonalities,but as Nat says,we should be looking for values and beliefs..
Your words,your hug,were what I needed my dear freind.I wish nothing but the best for you,we deserve better..
Much love
Brenda
Brenda I don’t know if I would ever date anyone from AA again, I have met a lot of people in there who ‘talk the talk’ very convincingly but I know without a shadow of a doubt that they are not ‘walking the walk’, the ex EUM has been around AA for a lot of years, has been through a very well established top quality rehab, twice, yet he is the most dishonest person I have ever met but in any case I really am taking a couple of years out from dating, this experience has really shook me up but more importantly it has shown me that I have to truly love myself, learn to be me, learn what interests me etc and get out there and do it, that means more to me than anything after living all of my life until now just trying to ‘fit in’ and do terrible things to myself and have terrible things happen to me. From now on, no matter how hard this is, I am going to do it and I’m not going to rush things so along the way I know I will also learn or gain back many valuable skills such as patience. You wouldn’t believe the things that have happened to me and I just got up the next day and got on with my life, well, no more will I do that so not only am I grieving for this lost so called relationship I am also grieving for all the other terribly sad and bad things that happened to me but it is all positive even though some times it doesn’t feel like that.
much love
Karen
“You can get past this. I’d challenge anyone who has been involved with an abusive narc that disappeared not to ‘go off the rails’ somewhat. ”
Brenda, Nat is right and you have nothing to be ashamed of. Years ago I was involved with an emotionally and physically abusive man that my therapist at the time said was most likely a narcissist. I coped by hitting the town and drinking myself into a near-stupor and ended up involved with (yet another) total douche. I can tell you that you really, really can get past this. In fact, one of my girlfriends that I’ll be seeing tonight is a former anorexic that relapsed after an awful boyfriend. Look at us now – I don’t drink like the world is about to end and she eats normally. We both had to stop shaming ourselves and learn how to show ourselves some compassion as well. For me, that was the biggest hurdle. I want you to really take it to heart that you’re not the only one who’s been there and you are a wonderful lady that WILL come through this stronger than before! *Big Hugs*
Natasha..
You are so right,I can do this!!!
I love to read for hours on here,and it makes me smile when I know that out of all the crap we ahve endured,we can come out of the shit and be our authentic selves..
You and all the women on here have become like a sisterhood to me..I have suffered alone about many things for years..I was to ashamed to embarrased,yada yada yada…And in doing that I just kept stuffing it down,making it impossible to get better,including choosing the wrong men..
Lastnight,I cooked a great meal,made some tea,sat down on here and read MANY posts from the past,and truly felt I was with freinds,my heart was at peace,I prayed alot for myself and all of you lastnight,so that we forgive ourselves and move on and up…
And I will continue to do so…..
Always
Brenda
Awesome Natalie; simply awesome. I’ve never read better. Consise, full of heart, words to live by. Thanks. You never cease to amaze me and I’m grateful and feel blessed to receive your messages. You are a gift.
Ah thanks Leisha. I meant to say to you – good for you remaining firm with your ex. You wouldn’t know which way is up with him and just don’t need that toxicity in your life. Keep shining x
Thanks Nat…I hope he’s just an ass not an addict. Oh well, too many unknowns and I just can’t and won’t do it anymore. I must have the basics and they just weren’t there. I hope he’ll be okay, but then I always did. I didn’t address the drugs in the e’s I sent b/c of tracking on the ‘net, and I wouldn’t discuss it on a cell phone either…it’s only the type of convo I’d have in person. But I had to put in what I need and want and won’t accept. Nothing more to do. I will be getting an hiv test in the spring to be certain I am clean. This experience scared me…trust was completely wiped out. How can you trust anyone doing those types of things to be thinking straight? I thought he was wiser than that. I loved him Nat, but my health can’t be risked now that I know he’s indulged in this area when at the beginning he said he didn’t do drugs. Well, that changed obviously.He may think it’s all harmless and that he’s just “dating around” and occasionally imbibing and won’t be “hooked”. I do thank him for letting me know I’m not safe in his hands even though I’m certain that’s not the message he meant it to be. It’s so damn funny how it can box you in the face sometimes. I had so much info but I just didn’t connect the lines until the SOS started again. Unreal. But, it’s okay, or it will be. Trust, monogamy, drug-free, commitment, reliability…the list grows! I have you for teaching me about boundaries and self-care and not giving unconditional love to one who isn’t treating you with care. I choose to love from a distance and eventually find someone to love me in a healthy way or I will do without and live my life comfortably in safety. x to you too.
And Nat, thanks for the affirmation and support. What you said is too true. I will continue to shine…I represent the light after all!(grin)These boundaries are essential.
Thank you Natalie for always hitting it dead on. I swear there are days that I log on to read your post and I feel like you must have been listening in on my brain talk.
Thank you – You never know Connie, maybe I have 😉
Thanks, Natalie,
I really needed this post. It’s been a rough week in general and this is when I mis my EUM/MM. This post is truly inspirational. I will never trade down and settle again, I have finally learned my lesson. It is just so degrading, but I have learned the hard way, Honestly, if it wasn’t for your post, I don’t think I would ever break my bad habits!
NeverTooLate! You will most definitely break the habit. The key is not to focus all your energy on staring at the issue of the married guy or making your existence solely about cutting him off. Yes NC, for example, is important, but you also need to nurture yourself and have things to replace some of your urges like a plan B & C. But yes, never trade down. No man, no *person* is worth it.
After 9 years celibate(yes,9) I stumbled through 3 bad relationships & each one was a trade down. I quickly went from a “please love me” to a “let me buy you” to a “just pick up the phone” in the space of 2 years. Exhausting and in the bright light of the morning, dumb as heck. I’m not mad at them you understand, men are going to take whatever you give them. I’m just pissed at myself. 35 years old & still wanting for Prince Charming. I quickly realized there’s no such creature, & I should probably save myself instead. One of those bad relationships recently got in touch with me. He just got married & his new wife was expecting. He was so excited! Never mind he took my money & left me humilated…he wanted me to know how I made him a better man. Rather then get upset, I brought to mind some of his “shortcomings.” Stifling laughter, I wished him luck & hung up the phone. I can leave that “little” memory behind. I’m all about the upgrade now…by the way ladies: try listening to tanya tucker’s “a memory like I’m gonna be”…it tells you what all those exes are going to realize one day
Awkward!!!
GettingBetter,
Check out If Love Could Think by Alan Gratch Ph.D .
Oh dear GettingBetter – your ex is a prize jackass and has no shame. He may be claiming he made you a better man, but if he was feeling so inclined, it would have been far better to write a fricking cheque and put it in the post… dickhead. Good luck to him. You won’t be rehabbing any man in the future so you’re pro bono work on that front is finished for good 😉
“Give yourself time and a chance – give yourself you.”
just perfect. Been focusing on doing this for about a year now. At the start of 2011 I wrote some goals for myself, and reaching december now I can’t describe how much happier, calmer, and more confident I feel. I’ve still got lots of room to continue to improve, of course, but I’m beginning to get a handle on this self-esteem business, and it feels great 🙂 thanks Natalie!
I was travelling long time last year and met this dude, and within weeks I was ready to leave everything behind that connected me to my own identity – my country, my family, friends, my dreams about the future – for this guy that I barely knew, who was obviously lying to me from day 1, who was literally making me cry EVERY DAY by making me feel jealous and insecure, made me feel ugly, fat, stupid, worthless, insane, and a prostitute, and at the same time feeling that I was completely dependent on him and that this was the way love was supposed to feel, making me roll on the floor crying and screaming for hours at two occasions when he threatened to leave me. I have always been a very trusting, happy, independent (or that is what I used to think about myself) girl and I let this guy fuck me up completely, use my money, sexually, verbally and physically abuse me. I was “saved” when I had to take my flight back home which I already bought. I really didn’t understand why my family was so upset when I came back, I totally ignored them trying to talk to me while being there with this shit guy. HOW can you lie to yourself like that??
I’m understanding now how seriously dangerous this was and that I am fucking lucky to have gotten out of that and I have SO much work to do now to understand what the fuck happened here and WHY!?
WHY was it so easy for me to accept this crap. That is the one last thing I really don’t understand. I was never abused as a child and there are no obvious causes that I can point at finger at. Maybe I am just too naive or too stupid, or am I completely insane or am I just a masochist, I cant figure it out. This is not the kind of person I want to be. I am so ashamed of myself for having been a part of this circus.
One thing is certain and that is I’m not getting involved with ANYONE in any way until I figure this out and are able to trust that can trust my own judgment when choosing who to trust, and have a clear picture of who I am and exactly what my agenda is in life so that I will never do this to myself again.
It is really double awful when they totally press all the buttons that then make you self-destruct. My self esteem was totally and completely wiped out by my experience.
When it ended (finally!) I remember sitting at my computer screen in a daze thinking “what the F just happened?” and “what the h*ll was that?”. Then googleing for answers (and finding BR!)
Even worse, my friends at the time were like “oh, you should get out more” or “oh, you have low self esteem”. And for a while I took it on the chin until I realised that OF COURSE if you get hit by oncoming traffic that there will be injuries (withdrawal, self-esteem blown up), it’s not like people come out of these situations with big smile on their face… and it is normal to be in pain and hurt…
It is taking months to recover and at times I felt *physically* compelled to go back, call, check if they REALLY REALLY were not interested in me, but I restrained myself and took myself into a psycologist for some heavy duty therapy. It is still ongoing but the damage is being repaired. In the meantime, despite people sniffing around, all dating is BANNED.
Tired, I appreciate your posts. Thank you. I thought I was the only one on the planet to buy into the down trading. I’m in major restrain mode. I still have moments where I want to smack him upside the head for using me. Then, I have to own my role in being used. Owning my role still sucks. Then, I have to smack me. I’m a year in. Will I get better?
I don’t know but I do know it takes a long time for our vision to switch over.
There’s a new voice inside my head (I imagine it is NMLs) but it is slowly becoming my own and replacing that other voice that has always downtraded and doubted myself and kept on saying ‘well maybe if you *just* wait a biiiit more… it might work out.
Last night I read over my diary from the last 2 years. It is one long cry – constantly being told I wasn’t good enough and watching myself bend over backwards to figure out what it was all about?!! I must have said ‘thats it, its over’ about 10 times. But I stayed in it. I had just come out of a marriage where I was told everything bad was my fault and went into a relationship where he quickly told me I wasn’t good enough. The bad thing – I BELIEVED these people. I had no self belief to stand up with.
I’ve been alone for nearly 6 months now and I’m still attached. Instead of consciously chosing to be alone and loving it, I am still hating it, trying to distract myself, trying to convinve myself this is fun. I do lovely things with some lovely people, I think I need to be more grateful for them as I’m still wounded from all the bad people I attracted to myself.
As you say Nat – ‘Take a few months out, put 110% effort into focusing positively on you which includes nurturing you, being compassionate to you, learning to trust and like you, forgiving you, and breaking old ties and habits. When you’re genuinely happy and at peace within, you will be able to recognise healthier opportunities instead of using turmoil as a primary driver. Give yourself time and a chance – give yourself you.’
Sorry – can I just add….the events of the last few years have seen me re-evaluate my life – it feels like a mission, I feel like I HAVE to sort things out. My job isn’t secure, I don’t know what I want to do, friends, relationships – sometimes its overwhelming. I have only a few friends and most are busy at weekends so every other weekend when the children go to their dad I spend most of it alone. I know I have to make new friends, I know I have to get out and make a life for myself or else things won’t improve. I’ve joined a socialising thing and am making myself go…is that right? Should I feel like I am making myself go? Am I ignoring what I really want – which is to hunker down and grieve? I don’t know what would be best anymore but I know I want to be a happy person again
Jane,
I got involved in volunteering. It takes the focus off of you and puts it on others. Volunteering is very rewarding, and another benefit is many new friends.
I would also check out meet up groups and classes. There are so many options to enhance your life, but you have to be willing to make the change.
Jane,
I also keep the calendar diary, and it’s helpful to see the events written out in their time-line. A real eye-opener for me that xEUM did not spend any of the holidays with me over a 14 month period.
I bought a new diary calendar for 2012 last week and it will be full of entries about me & none of him. (I’m to the point where I don’t have to keep writing him in diary or my feelings about him). I’ve been in NC for maybe 7 weeks – mid-October something.
Also, regarding Trading Down…. I think we do this in so many situations, and maybe especially on the job, and with other people who have money*power* control* over us…(bosses, landlords, parents, anyone who fits catagory).
Are we a generation of women who have learned to do this trading down and acceptance of poor treatment?… like because we can’t afford not to have the JOB? Then, when we carried over the trading down method into our relationships we just opened the door for abuse, pain, etc? And it seems like things were so different ten, twenty and thirty years ago! Especially in relationships with men.
I think I will stand up for myself in ALL Catagories, realms, relationships, venues., and will do it with best tact possible. I’m a very good person and should be treated accordingly!*!
And thinking about calendars…. I want the remainder of my years to be happy and peaceful and filled with more people that I truly Love and can count on. Happy 2012 Everyone here on BR!!!
Yes – I think I have traded down in all aspects of my life and am now trying to get myself up again. I will be buying a new diary for 2012 and it will be for me only too. Thanks
Jane,
I just wanted to tell you that you’re absolutely *not* alone in feeling the way you do – I’m sure everyone on here has felt the same at some point, or still feels like it right now. Like you, I know that I need to get myself out there into the world even though I’d still sometimes prefer to stay at home alone and grieve. These days, I do still spend some time doing that because I think it’s good to acknowledge your feelings of hurt and grief and let them out in private. To swallow them down unacknowledged can often just result in feeling even more depressed. But I’m also encouraging myself to take gradual little steps outside my comfort zone and push gently on with creating a more joyful life for myself that is more connected to other decent people than it has been before, because I know that nothing about my situation will change at all if I stay at home alone all the time. I think it’s important to do it at your own pace, otherwise it can get pretty overwhelming and that could be counter-productive and send you scurrying back to square one. Also acknowledge your own progress no matter how tiny it may feel, and recognise that even baby steps will feel really hard to take at first. Sending good thoughts to you from another Jane (my real name) x
Hi – thank you so much for your kind words – and you make perfect sense. I’m not locking myself away but I am recognising that I don’t always have the energy it takes to go and meet new people. I’m tired and I’m sad at how badly I have been treated and how badly I have treated myself both mentally and physically. I haven’t taken care of myself at all – I have smoked and drunk to numb the feelings and my health has suffered. It is baby steps and I think it is noticing when I have had a lovely moment in a day and being grateful for that moment. And gradually I will re-emerge. It gives me great encouragement to read your words of support – thanks.
I thought to myself yesterday – no more – as I go into 2012 I don’t want to carry this round with me anymore. On the most basic level we were incompatible. Thats all it was. Its over. Its done. It was never ok. It will never be ok. Never. I had a moment of what felt like loving attention after 15 years of being ignored and undermined and abused. And in some ways he did believe in me – so take the good from it and leave the rest. The only person keeping it in the present is me. And I don’t want to spend another year feeling this way
Hi Jane,
I know absolutely 100% what you are feeling when you say this:-
“I thought to myself yesterday – no more – as I go into 2012 I don’t want to carry this round with me anymore. On the most basic level we were incompatible. Thats all it was. Its over. Its done. It was never ok. It will never be ok. Never. I had a moment of what felt like loving attention after 15 years of being ignored and undermined and abused. And in some ways he did believe in me – so take the good from it and leave the rest. The only person keeping it in the present is me. And I don’t want to spend another year feeling this way”.
Your words are very moving. It’s having had what felt like loving attention for a while, after a long time without receiving any, that makes it all so devastating and hard to recover from when reality sets in and you realise it was just never going to work. Having badly neglected my own health and well-being from the moment when I knew my relationship was unravelling, I also understand and recognise why you don’t feel up to going out and meeting new people. But take courage and gently does it with your recovery, because I am 100% certain from the way you have written – about not wanting to carry it round with you any more – that you are going to be just fine.
Whenever I read ANY of your articles I say: Absolutely true. Yes I deserve better. And no, no fakers, BSs, unavailables anymore. Not with me! It’s obvious you can only lose, obvious you’re not gonna be the exception etc.
But one question remains: Why does it feel like love, when it’s crap?
And why is it so hard to let go one of those when there not even worth a wave goodbye?? How do they manage to come back always through the backdoor of your mind – when you know all this? How can we miss someone or feel a loss even when we decide to go?
dana, I miss someone really badly but I know not only is he not good for me, he isn’t good for himself. He finally admitted he’d come to see me up on meth…I found myself in a “ah ha” moment…could it be that the man is an addict? He had been many years before…he may be again. What I know is he deceives, he omits, he fools around, he’s unreliable, and I can’t trust him. Knowing about the drugs and recalling other events makes me question whether he’s been indulging in stuff off and on the entire time I “knew” him (mind you he’s a “man of his word” and church attending Christian, has a fierce temper, etc in the way of “this is fkd up behavior). He has 3 children whom he risks by playing with such fire…I no longer can respect him. I hate what he’s done and is doing to himself…and I hate that he risked my health as well by keeping secrets. I am glad that he finally admitted to his drug use and I hope he gets help. But for my sake, I put boundaries in place and won’t accept his “bad” anymore. So, yep, you can miss someone, you can love their soul, but some behaviors mean that you must say goodbye to save yourself.
Jane, Hunker down and grieve. You are fortunate in that you have the time to be introspective and do the work…take it and use it…to heal you must grieve…
Hi Jane. I read your post and I can so relate to where you are right now. I think the answer to your question lies in your own words. You need to take time to grieve. When someone we love goes out of our lives it is like a death. If someone important to you died you wouldn’t just jump into a social life to detract from the pain,would you? So be kind to yourself. The time you spend grieving is part of the healing process. It is a horrible experience at the time but some day you will look back and recognise it as a period of healing and acceptance and growth. You are lucky to have good friends and a support network in place. Last night for the first time in many many years I went out with some friends and I felt like ‘me’. I remember other nights, going out and going through the motions while all the while checking my phone or watching the clock to see if I had stayed an acceptable amount of time before making my excuses to go home and check my emails to see if he had contacted me. I cam home last night and rejoiced at feeling free! This site is wonderful. It is helping me so much find the me I used to be. Somewhere inside you there is the you you used to be. She is just healing and someday, when the time is right, she too will arise like a phoenix from the ashes and rejoin the human race with rejoicing in her heart!
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement – it means a lot to me. You are right – I am grieving and need to face it not distract myself – after all there’s no one telling me I can’t be me anymore – except me!! Thank you
I relate 100% to you also Jane and I’m not going out although I went out last night but I’m not sure either that I know how to grieve??? I have done a lot of crying but that was before I let him back into my life again for a very brief period as it was evident he just wanted an ego stroke, to know I still wanted him and I fell for it like a fool so I’m back to where I was before I let him back into my life. Is there a way to grieve???
“You need to take time to grieve. When someone we love goes out of our lives it is like a death. If someone important to you died you wouldn’t just jump into a social life to detract from the pain,would you? So be kind to yourself. The time you spend grieving is part of the healing process. ”
Very wise words. Some people don’t seem to understand and it’s like “it’s ok, plenty out there” or “you need to get out more” or “you have low self esteem”, which is actually quite insensitive- when you’ve been knocked down by oncoming traffic, it is normal to have injuries and be in pain. Healing does take a while too.
Curious thing is that I’ve experienced a few ‘normal route’ breakups (or dates ending because they weren’t right) and get over them quickly (a few days) but when you are involved with EUM / AC that blows hot at the start, cold, then hot again, it is very cruel and seems like the LESS the put in, the more deeply attached you become (rejection hook) and the more time and more painful and more effort (huge psychologist/counselling bills) it seems to take.
We didn’t even have a relationship! And this is month #8 so far, and I’m almost there… Recovery would be much faster if they just fell off the planet/didn’t see them around but we don’t live in that kinda world.
Actually, getting out and doing things is what saved me in the early days, as it kept the focus off of him, and enhanced my life.
Haven’t we put enough brain energy these guys??? These are people who did not treat us with love care or respect! We should be celebrating they are gone!!!!!
hi guys
Karen – Grieving? Takes many forms I think. Both my parents are dead and with my mum I buried it and threw myself into being busy, career, getting married (!!) but 10 years later it wooped me in the face and I couldn’t hold it all in anymore. Thus started this journey! When my dad died I told myself I wasn’t going to do that. I was going to take time – and I did. I took a whole year on purpose. Took my time clearing out his things, crying, remembering and then the time was right to move on. I don’t have any negative feelings associated with his death at all but my mums traumatised me.
I need to listen to myself!! Take the time. With both my exes I have been so afraid of being alone I have distracted myself. Like many people on here I chose a relationship that would take my attention away from me, that was my last chance saloon – it would never thrive on those terms and if I had anny self esteem I wouldn’t have chosen him.
tired-of-assonova – the fact that you are starting to feel ok after 8 months is good news to meAnd great for you! I agree, it is something to do with the attachment and the messing about we suffered that makes it harder – its almost like Pavlovs dogs – being nice one minute and then not the next is awful as it keeps a person in it in hope. I notice I am still hoping…..aargh!!! I want to stop now.
Dana,
You’re grieving what you thought it COULD have been. Your grieving what it wasn’t and could never be. The reality hurts when you are brought back down to earth that it just wasn’t going to turn out the way you had thought it would. Whether he was the right guy for you or not your still going to grieve the loss of what you imagined it would be. There are somethings you liked about him, or rather the idea of him. We all want to find someone who loves us, cares for and respects as much as we do them. That’s why it hurts. We want someone who desires and is able to be in a relationship full on. The desire for that never goes away, it doesn’t die when you break up with someone whether he was the guy for you or not. The HOPE that we will one day find it never goes away. With time as you keep reminding yourself as to why the relationship had to end it will help break the emotional bond you had with him when you realize that you did what was the best thing for you.
Hi Ladies,
Brenda please keep your chin up, it gets better I swear; you have to shower yourself with all that love that you showered on the unworthy; really, you need to write affirmations, envision yourself as protected by yourself and maybe a higher power if that is your thing, and just really remind yourself that there are two “yous” in there; the little you and then the big you, and sometimes we all need to call on our bigger side to protect our smaller, frailer, “vulnerable-feelings” one. Big hugs!
And Gaby please don’t blame yourself; it sounds like this man was a predator and toxic…people like that mess with your head and heart and they can make anyone feel really crazy. It sounds to me like you were travelling and-in being out of your element- got involved in something that you would not have probably gotten involved with at home….we all make mistakes, some of the biggest losers I ever met I made out with whilst travelling:)!
On the positive side; I can’t say that I *feel* super happy about this, but I see that I have really made progress and have a funny story to share….SO got asked out by a guy that I had noticed had been checking me out for a while but I had not really been giving him the time of day when he made effort ( which now I realize had been the right decision lol). I had been passing him over for pretty snobby reasons-he did not have some of the superficial things on my list like a degree- and yet when he asked me out I decided to accept because he seemed so down-to-earth…and then came the text messages, and more text messages…this man could not for the life of him pick up the phone to organize our date! We had a week plus between the asking and the first date ( that did not occur) due to me having family and freinds in for the holiday. I told my freind that all the texting conversations were leaving me feeling depleted and a bit wary..and she said that I was just paranoid about having had that one epiphany relationship and that was just how some guys were. ANYHOW…so chatty, flirty texts and then we planned ( by text) for him to call me on the night of our date to solidify plans. He was supposed to call at 6 and we were supposed to meet somewhere at 7:30-8:00. NO call. NO text. 6:50 he calls, I don’t answer because I am annoyed-its rude! our first date! and he then hangs up WITHOUT leaving a message, and then, 20 minutes later, (so almost 7:30) he texts me and says “so i called, are you calling back or what?”. He did not even put the energy in to leave a message. Impolite text…whatever! How immature and frankly…weird. I felt like he was trying to get me to chase him or something.
I just texted him back and said calmly and simply that I did not think that the late contact, the lack of message and the attitudinal text that made me feel uncomfortable made us compatible and lets just pass. Then he proceeded to, yes, TEXT me two long texts about how caught up he had been blah blah blah, with his 18 year old daughter so he could not call me (?)..and that “in his world” people don’t leave messages blah blah blah and then telling me- what was probably a lie- that he was already at the bar (even though we had agreed to call first and had not even solidified that place as the sole possibility) and that he did not appreciate me wasting his time. He finished by oddly stating that text messages always create problems ( hence…he uses them as his primary form of communication?) Flush. I did not respond.
He is 43 with an 18 year old and divorced.
Now, I know I did the right thing for me, because I in no way felt comfortable with that weird behavior from someone in his 40’s but I have to ask; do you all think these guys knowingly engage in weirdness like that as a form of control? I never just call people I barely know, and not leave a message, and then expect them to call me back. Nor write curt texts to people who I barely know.
But that said; glad I flushed. The other me, pre-epiphany, would have gone just because I would have felt “rude” not to. I instead had a glass of wine and watched a Fred Astaire christmas movie and thanked god that I was with me, someone who I trust;)
Thanks all for the great advice/support that I see enacted here:)
That’s a lot of drama really early…good thing you flushed. I also think that although your friend thinks it’s okay for text only; you have to decide your own code…not lemming behavior based on what so many people are doing which only creates more of the same…I think your gut was on target the entire time ( until you 2nd guessed it and what happened just served to confirm it ). As to your question about leaving messages…it’s funny how when I’ve had someone do that they usually have had others monitoring their phones and they’ve been shady…just a thought to consider! Regardless of why you initially avoided the guy you made the right choice.
Right thing DancingQ,
Texting gives these manchildren the feeling of being in control and convenient distance.
Two years ago I would have been flattered by lots of texting now it’s actually a red flag for me too.
I repeatedly asked my ex to stop texting me, particularly during the descent of our relationship, long detailed texts about his feelings/my blame/inadequacies came in..rather than confront face to face or by phone, he was obsessed..complex emotions, nuances of meaning,true clarification can’t be done by text.
dancingqueen
I had a very similar experience a few years ago. I flushed a first date because the texting was annoying me too much. He got in a huff as well. They think they’re doing us a big favour! No thanks.
And, no, I don’t expect to be treated like a princess. Is a date, a time, a place and 24 hours notice too much to ask?
And if a bloke ever gets arsey with me because of his kids, I’m flushing him. Not cos I hate kids . I love kids – don’t use them as an excuse for being a twit!
That sounds like a lot of drama, but on the other hand he can’t read your mind. That’s the other thing I have to learn- a lot of problems i experience come from me THINKING but not SAYING anything!
People can’t read your mind! Maybe he did have issues that night, it does happen.
On the other hand, when you have been on the dating scene for too long, you know that any issues in showing up at the first date is a *big* red flag. I have had multiple different people stand me up (ugh!), other people flake out like you would not believe, people who think it is OK to arrange a date two week/ages or more away (are you kidding, I am not waiting that long, you are not serious), the “oh I have just had an emergency/family situation/work just called (what at 7pm on Friday night?)” and even the ones where they go NUTS just before you meet them (I just had a big breakdown/argument with someone/I’ve recently broken up with ex and not ready) and then ask for a ‘raincheck’ on you.
Don’t do it! They are doing you a favour by showing you who they really are. Turning up on time is THEIR responsibility, and it is even more unattractive if they engage in blame-the-victim. You can’t lose by flushing them! Imagine if someone pulled this cr*p at a job interview (I’m not ready for a job/I was drunk last night/I’m still thinking of staying with my previous employer/can I have the interview postponed for 2 weeks). DON’T ACCOMMODATE BS!!
I pity the people who are now in relationships with these AC’s! Even worse their dating profiles are the exact opposite of who they really are!
Dancing
you did the exact correct thing he was testing to see how much of sucker and how low your self esteem is. Bravo to you for flushing that rude man, please don’t give him anymore of your precious time!
This year has been a year of really getting honest with myself and my life (past. Present. Future). I have cut ties with poisonous people. Ended bad friendships. Closed email accounts. And recently got a new phone number so that those who I needed to get away from, cloud not contact me or atleast make it harder for them to do so. December is here and I have a few more things to wrap up, but this year has been a fantastic year of discovery and positive change. Nat reading your articles have help solidify my thoughts and choices. For that I thank you.
This is a great way of seeing things – I’ve been doing something similar over the summer – its a positive way to view and then next year will be a new one. Thanks
This is great, Natalie. I have been a passive down-trader in my past relationships. It really is true that we should see these experiences as a mirror to wake up and start being true to ourselves. Thank you for the wise words of advice.
Nat, reading your response to Debra’s post elsewhere on BR, got me thinking about love/relationship addiction. I wrestle with the shame that comes from using relationships (specifically seeking validation from a person who doesn’t give it easily) to fill the void within myself. These last two years have been the first time I have been single in the last 17 years!
Once “dry”, I took steps to live a healthier life. I came to see I had unhealthy friendships, I put up boundaries, met new people who have integrity, and worked on my own. I went to therapy and realized I’d been abused physically, emotionally. Although these realizations were painful, my relationships with my family actually improved. I traveled for six months, something I’d always wanted to do. I started a website geared towards helping the Latino community, another goal from long ago. But it’s not a straight path, there are bad days too.
When I came back from my trip and found out the ex was engaged, I broke down. Then I felt weak, a failure, that I just fooling myself, if all it took was that news to make me think that I wasn’t good enough (in that case, to be “chosen”) then I really hadn’t made any progress at all (btw your response on BR about that really helped slap some sense into me). Later, when I found out that he has started working in the building next to mine, I took it in stride. I don’t look for him or hide, I just continue on (i.e. I didn’t cancel my daily runs at lunch around our building complex).
But then I had a nightmare this week where the ex violently attacked me. I woke up incredibly scared, then disappointed- I’d stopped having those dreams (something I can’t control-frustrating) last year. I walked around that day feeling like crap because I can’t understand what triggered it, or how to stop it. The only thing I understand is that just when I am feeling good about myself, I sabotage my good feelings by tearing myself apart and focusing on rejection. I go back to the comfortable, unhealthy negative belief system, and then I have to claw my way back to a good place. Aside from therapy, BR has been one of the places I come to stay focus. This latest post is just another reminder of the most important thing you have shown us how to do, be our own champion in life. Don’t settle for less, break your patterns, believe in you, especially on the hard days…
Jasmine, brilliant words.
As a young woman, I ‘m mid forties now… I definitely used’too early’ entry into another relationship to get solace for a break-up. I recognised, much later in life that this was my way of trying to prove I was still of’value.’ Much more complex than just being seen as attractive or interesting or clever.. I needed to close a gap in me too. I pursued someone I saw as ‘valuable’,goodlooking, with status, someone other women wanted,part of an in crowd etc. I’d thrive off of my friend’s thinking I was popular with guys..
If you live you life like this you are literally a ball on a pinball machine, living off of point scoring,sound and fury.
You think that it’s a trade up…but each time you get into a relationship again to early…you trade down!
To actually stay out of this self defeating little game, actually takes a growth in confidence..before the EUM, I was single for two years been NC and it will take me probably a good few months before I date again. My mantra these days is ‘take time to heal’.
Sometimes on site I read other’s stories about breaking up one week and feel their acute hurt..then they are all dressed up to go dancing a week later…but still hurting badly and I want to shout ‘Take time to grieve! Just hang out with you for a while and see where it leads you?’
I know now that my ex had this pattern in his life..going quickly from one replacement to the next, he had no insight and wants none.
I liked what you said about how you developed integrity, both by developing projects on your own and by being around those that also have integrity. Your dreams you can’t control..but the overall tone of your post Jas, just so authentic to me,you struggle and rise..and clearly you’ve had some tough knocks.
I agree entirely…believing yourself on the hard days is much more important than when you feel like you’re cruising. I know it’s getting easier.
Lynda from L,
Thank you. Yes, in getting into relationships too soon, and for the wrong reasons (I need to feel valued, I don’t want to be alone), I definitely traded down. I dated very similar men for years! This time out has been hard but also wonderful most of the times. I realize now that I wasn’t the healthiest partner either, either being EU myself or chasing an EUM.
Btw thanks for explaining piss taker 🙂
Lynda from L,
Your post resonated with me. Having come out of my first serious relationship (of 3.5 years) nearly three months ago (I’m in my early 30s), I feel like the only thing that has kept the pain away is the interest I have received from other guys since the break up.
The ex has now been living with another woman since we broke up (and has been posting all these “happy and in love” photos of them together on Facebook) and it really, really hurts. I hate the feeling that I’m alone, having to heal from the pain and the need to move on from him, while he probably hasn’t given me as much as a second thought, being too content and in love with this new woman. Sometimes it makes me feel like nothing.
The only thing that makes me feel better at the moment is the attention I’ve been receiving from a few other guys. Like you, I have always needed to go for guys that are attractive, or interesting, or intelligent, or successful. It must be a validation thing for me too. I have been dating one of “these” for the past 7 weeks: a CEO, intelligent, passionate, well connected, blah blah blah. I did tell him at the beginning I didn’t know whether I was ready to start dating again, having just come out of a break up. He convinced me to give it a shot, and well, it’s progressed from there. The pain from my break up subsided once I started seeing him.
But this situation is currently frustrating the hell out of me because while he calls me nearly every night, I have still only seen him twice (he lives in two states, has kids from a previous marriage and his work has been really busy leading up to Xmas). Plus since I’ve met him he is always working and is tired a lot of the time. When things aren’t going well, the pain comes back and I feel hopeless, like I’m ready to give up – to the point of wishing I was back with the AC ex. Urg!
I’m meeting up with the new guy this weekend, and I can feel myself pinning my hopes on him; that he will be the right guy for me and make it all better. However, I’ve got to stop using him as a crutch and just deal with the pain of the break up, deal with the pain that the ex has moved on, and deal with being alone.
LA
you need some time off, not to date. The new guy is totally NOT there for you! After a totally tramatic break up I really wanted ‘someone’ and did go on some dates but I was wary not to cling and my eagle eye towards vetting was in effect so I did not make the mistake of using a new guy as a balm or a crutch.
I know it may seem hard to do but you should dump the new guy you’ve only seen him twice, sounds like he’s stringing you along.
Linda & LA I can relate, trust me.
I dated some one who I thought was the ideal candidate. He was good looking, affectionate, high powered job (he’s an investment banker), he owns numerous property, loves his family etc, etc. But he is the only guy that has lead me to place where I couldn’t get out of bed to go to work, stopped going to the gym, couldn’t eat, constant headaches from over thinking and then I checked his Facebook and saw lovely photos of him looking happy without a care in the world. I sometimes sit and wonder how the hell did I get here. Its simply because I traded down and was seeking validation from someone I thought was above me. I wanted him to want and love me but he isn’t capable because at 35 years old he is not ready to settle down and commit. He wants to sleep around. He’s definitely a narcissist because he is used to women adoring him, he dreams of extreme wealth and whilst he is very affectionate he lacks empathy. He let me go in the most passive aggressive way and although it hurts like hell I’m prepared to shoulder a small piece of blame, because had my self esteem been in tow with me it wouldn’t have happened. I say you shouldn’t date for a while, fix yourself first, so that you are in a position to notice and act on red flag behaviour. I’m in the mid stage of getting over him but I’m really trying my best and hope that the new year will bring me some happiness.
Hi wise ladies,
Up in the middle of the night, have interview tomorrow and cannot sleep so came on and noticed posts on subject. I think it’s the avoidance of the hit of’ instant gratification’that getting involved with a new guy will give you after you’ve been made to feel like crap. It was for me in the past. I was never indiscriminate sexually, but I liked to date… I was an emotional slut! Praise me, praise me…now get me a taxi! Shocking!
Very definitely to do with avoiding grieving as you say..LA, you identify it as ‘keeping the pain away’..but rather it’s like taking a strong painkiller…that’s going to wear off and leave you twice as hurting?
It’s crack for sure..but we tell ourselves it’s self medication and we are worth it..that hair advert with Jennifer Aniston and Cheryl Cole has a lot to answer for..what…we are worth expensive hairspray?!!
In my opinion, there is also ‘retaliation’ aspect involved, particularly if your ex has moved on..like you describe Steph. We want him to see we don’t need him anymore, are back on the horse. I think this devalues us tho’, if we cared fully about ourselves, we would grieve…
I do, I am, and it’s the worst one… it’s the stage
I’m going through now…and hopefully after that comes acceptance.
Listen, see this stuff that I , you, lots of women on site state about our guys having great jobs, being chief execs, directors, beautiful, cultured, giving us trips and wonderful meals…tonight as I write this I think, Tosh! This is just a way to try and validate ourselves(falsely)..WE are enough on our own, without the guy who is lucky enough to have us having ‘status’. In anycase we actually should be making lists about how kind they were, and how they made us laugh, and remembered how we were having a hard time that week, and rubbed our feet and followed up on what they said, and that the sharing felt mutual and the future felt consistent and bright.
Anyways, I off up the wooden stair to Bedfordshire…as we say in Blighty…wish me luck for my interview(I’m actually praying that they put it off to Thurs!! not ready!!)
Thanks Natalie you hit the nail on the head again! I’m definitely guilty of trading down. As I mentioned in the previous blog, I’m 7 weeks into NC and really struggling. I think this is partly because I know I traded my self down and tried to be something I wasn’t so that I could accommodate him. I was at his beck and call, I slept with him too quickly, I allowed him to ignore me at the weekends, let him manage me by text, listened to him brag and boast about how much he had achieved. He never really wanted to know much about me and I knew this and still continued to want him! These are things that in the past I would never have put up with. However, I’m on the road to recovery although the Xmas season has me feeling down because I’m still wondering what that Prat will be doing over the Xmas, mainly because he told me he was taking me abroad somewhere hot. Why do these men do this? More importantly why do we let them?
Hopefully we will stop wondering what they are doing for Christmas Steph…been where you are, same boat, lets take an oar each and head for that dry land called’Sanity’??
You know, I know it’s getting better.Big X
I can relate 100% to this post and its heartbreaking to think I loved this guy, I gave up my family, friends, money the whole job lot and now I’m living by myself in a house miles from anywhere and miles from my family and friends but it also means that for the first time in my life I truly am on my own which means I have an opportunity to put myself back together or together, I don’t know that I ever was truly together so with the help of this site I am determined to get through this and come out a winner and I believe I can do it. It amazes me how many of these guys are out there and I’m so glad so many women respond on this site because I keep slipping back into ‘its because of the way I behaved’ but I can see that it is him who prompted my behavior, that wasn’t the real me at all or it was the very worst of me, anyway, gonna read the responses before I go to sleep.
Karen,you may be physically alone,but you are never alone here…NEVER!!!
Brenda
And you know what Brenda, you’re right, as soon as I get on here or even think of you ladies I suddenly don’t feel alone and I know also that it wont always be like this, this is how it is now because this is what is best for me so thank you, thank you so much for making me feel like I’m not alone. x
Can anybody tell me what ‘MM’ stands for please?
Hi Karen,
It means married man… and yes, one of the most impactful things I have learned on BR is even if you enabled shady behaviour by staying longer that you should, you aren’t the cause of it. Even if you had the boundaries of a doormat, there are people who won’t take advantage of you becuase that’s not who they are. Stay strong 🙂
Hi Jasmine
Thanks for that and yes, I can see that now, that I wasn’t responsible for the way he treated me, I thought I was for a long time even though he has treated all his girlfriends like this and he is now 47 years old!!! It has been such a confusing painful experience being with him for the last nearly 6 years that what ever pain I go through now cannot be as bad because this way there is going to be a happy ending. Thank you for your support.
Hi fellow BR friends,
I, too, have been having a really “blah” week as well. What do they say about getting over a break up? Two steps forward, one step back.
I traded down by being with my ex. On top of being a man-child, he had no job, no money, no emotional insight, no foresight, no intelligence, and was happy using me as his financial and life plan. But, oh how he could turn on his charm, and devotion and love for me.
For a long time I knew that our relationship wasn’t right; that he wasn’t right for me; that he wasn’t good enough for me. I knew that if I stayed with him that I would look back in five, ten years time and regret the decision. Regret that I missed out on the opportunity to meet the RIGHT man for me because I was comfortable with the familiar, and because as Nat rightly pointed out, I feared that I may never meet anyone else; that this was as good as it gets – my last chance saloon.
So it is a good thing that I’m not with him anymore, and my family and friends have rejoiced at this turn of events. However, I’ve been having pangs all week. It’s been nearly three months since we broke up, with him immediately moving in with another woman. This week I’ve been thinking about how unfair it is that he is happy and in love again, while I am alone and nursing my wounds and may never find love. It’s not fair: why doesn’t he love me anymore?; why did he move on so quickly?; why wasn’t I good enough for him?; why haven’t I been able to get over him yet?; does he think about me at all?
It seems I have been having my very own pity party this week, and I’m the only one that has been invited!
LA, reading your comment I felt it was important to point out something that you’re overlooking.
Aside from what was a pretty painful description to read of this man, he has no money and no job. After everything you’ve said, I suspect his charm, his looks, his penis and his *dependence* are what are attractive to you.
If he is not with you anymore, it means he needs a home, some money, and another woman not concerned with character and values to shack up with.
You cannot buy love. You can buy *attention*. You have fallen into the trap of many women *and* men by acting like buying and providing *is* ‘love’. I sense little or no respect for this man but unfortunately you may have assumed he *couldn’t* leave or that he’d have too much of a need for you.
Unfortunately there are plenty of women that will ‘provide’ for ‘love’. It’s in much the same way that where one woman won’t be an OW or be a one night stand or booty call, another woman will. What you must learn from this is that participating isn’t giving you the competitive edge you think and giving you a chance to ‘win’ what is quite frankly a booby prize.
Instead, as women we must realise that if you’re being offered a low rent opportunity like this, let someone else do it. These guys are equal opportunity users – there’s nothing to win.
When you recognise that if you don’t do these things, they’ll just find someone that will, you realise that they’re just not that special.
That woman isn’t ‘loving’ him any better than you and he doesn’t love her either. A man who is pitied by women will always be a rolling stone.
There is more to you than what you can provide. You don’t need to hold a man with your home, your purse, and even your vagina. You are worth far more than that.
Thank you, thank you, Natalie! I really needed to hear this.
You are right. I was absolutely shocked and completely floored when he broke up with me and proceeded to move in with another woman. For the 3.5 years we were together I was constantly told by him how how much he loved me; how lucky he was to have me; how special I was, and even that I was his oxygen and he couldn’t survive without me.
Towards the end of our relationship, when I started to chip away at his veneer by challenging him (his decisions, thinking patterns, to plan his own life) it got too much for him. He told me a few months before it ended and probably about the same time that he started to see the new woman that he was “preparing for me to abandon him”. He needed a new provider and there was one that was more than willing to take my place.
I suppose I should have seen the red flags reflected in his past relationships (the women were always the providers and he would adopt these women’s lives like a parasitic host); in his last relationship end (he told me that they had been over for a year, whilst hiding our relationship from her at the same time); or, in his statement at the beginning of our relationship, “I’m a survivor. If it gets too hard. I walk.”
But I didn’t.
I got too caught up with his apparent dependence and devotion towards me. I always thought that if we broke up, it would be me leaving him. I worried that if this happened he would be so devastated that he might try and harm himself. How wrong I was about this man. He was all glitter and sparkle on the outside, but inside, an empty shell of a man.
It makes me wonder how I could be so wrong about someone I had been with for nearly four years. I was blindsided. My family and friends weren’t, though. They could see it. I couldn’t until the end.
I know I deserve better. I’m also seeking therapy to deal with the break up and my own self-worth issues. I do feel I have and will continue to grow from this experience.
The ex has and never will look within himself and try and change. He doesn’t want to and quite possibly, lacks the ability to do it. Maybe the time it takes me to fully recover and be happy with my life, will be the time it takes his relationship and life to unravel again. But by then I will be over him and won’t care either way.
“The ex has and never will look within himself and try and change. He doesn’t want to and quite possibly, lacks the ability to do it. Maybe the time it takes me to fully recover and be happy with my life, will be the time it takes his relationship and life to unravel again. But by then I will be over him and won’t care either way.”
What an amazing way to put it. You are SO correct. We really must STOP the madness of analyzing and dissecting their every word and action, waiting for that next crumb of validation to come our way.
It was only when I realized how little difference there truly was DURING the relationship and AFTER I ENDED the relationship with the MM that I finally saw the way I saved each and every crumb of text, whispered, short phone calls, stolen moments, and used my MIND to bind them into a huge, beautiful LOAF. Take all that “thought” and brain power and pondering and angst away, and poof – it’s just crumbs blowing away in the wind again.
When I was able to SEE it, then I was able to finally REMOVE those thoughts that bound the crumbs together, and I saw them for what little substance they were.
I don’t think the MM will EVER see what he did. But you know what? It doesn’t matter whether he does or not. He made a CHOICE. His choice became my BOUNDARY. And I am in a much better place and my BS meter is set to ZERO tolerance right now.
You have to take it all back and make it about you. Because while you were making it all about him, and while HE was making it all about him, who was making anything at all about you???? So ladies, this is OUR time. The time we spend on BR, around friends and family who treat us with love, care, trust, and respect. Everytime we do something not about him, think about something not about him, a sliver of self-worth comes back to us. xoxo ladies.
LA,
Everything you are feeling is completely normal… and I am so sorry that you are going through this difficult time. There are going to be tough days, especially with the holidays coming up. But I once read somewhere that recovery from a bad break-up is not linear, it’s more like a crab walking along the beach… it takes three steps forward, one back and then forward again. On those bad days, it’s good to remember why he’s not for you. Or write the unsent letter. From the tone of your post it seems like you felt he used “love” as a tool or gimmick to get what he needed from you… exploitive, which is the opposite of real love.
Chances are slim that he has grown up enough in such a short period of time to be capable of healthy love. He probably believes he love this woman, just like he may have believed he loved you. Thing is, if his idea of love is exploitive….it seems like you or ANY woman are better off without him! Anyhow, pity parties are normal, cry, vent, be kind to yourself… no matter what, at one point you had hope that you would both be a part of something special, and it’s normal to grieve it even if it was only an illusion. Thank god you don’t have five, ten years to regret… the next lady may not be so lucky.
Jasmine
Jasmine,
Thank you for your words of support.
I actually do think that at the time he really believes that he loves the woman and she is the best thing to happen to him. However, I don’t think he possesses the insight to understand why he follows the same relationship pattern over and over again, nor why all his relationships have ended the same way, nor how at forty he has no money and no qualifications. All he craves is romance and the love (and financial and emotional support) of a woman.
Yes, I’ve definitely been having a pity party this week. I must stop looking at their Facebook too, as it’s as helpful as punching myself in the face. I’m patiently waiting for their honeymoon period to come to an end, but the chances of them posting such a status update on Facebook is nil to naught!
I’m slowly getting better, and while I’ve slid this week, I know I hit rock bottom about 7 weeks ago. It can only get better from here. The help and support that I’ve received from Natalie and the BR community has been amazing. It’s comforting to know that you are not the only one in the whole universe experiencing these feelings.
LA,
“I must stop looking at their Facebook too, as it’s as helpful as punching myself in the face”.
You said it, girl! I, too, started looking at my ex’s FB wall a few weeks ago to try and find out if his life was falling apart yet. All it actually did was to re-open the wounds that had started to heal and make me think about him a lot again. *Totally* like punching myself in the face, and giving myself a nasty stab in the heart while I was about it! It was, in effect, breaking NC and doing a bit of “suck it and see”. But walking into any oncoming traffic, even if you think it’s fairly light, runs the risk of you being hurt. I’ve completely stopped looking at his FB wall again now, having trained myself if tempted to really remember how miserable I was looking at it, and how it stopped me from moving onwards and upwards. I’ve resumed total, proper NC now and am feeling a lot more settled again. It’s like any other self-destructive habit – you can break it if you really want to stop suffering the pain it inevitably always causes you when you look.
LA.
His life, his recovery, his gaining insight, his feelings about this woman, whether true love or not…park them.
Remove him, unattach,gain distance, disassociate…he is out of your life. Wish him no pain…then move on with sanity.
When someone keeps lying to you and they have further opportunities to keep lying to you, your relationship acts as a mirror to show you that you need to stop lying to yourself and being a receptive sponge for their lies.
This is the thing I have noticed about the bullshit diet, I ate up his bullshit or lies, but in order to stomach his bullshit I had to be also eating my own bullshit.
It is very difficult to accept that someone would lie to you but even harder to accpet how much lying I have done to myself.
The ‘active down-trader’ is breaking their back and rolling themselves out to be in a relationship that detracts from them – they’re chasing a high and the remote possibility of the reward of eventually being the exception to a shady rule.
That is very definately me.
Thank you so much Nat for this. I feel like this post was written for me, to me. You always know what to say. Thank you.
“The ‘active down-trader’ is breaking their back and rolling themselves out to be in a relationship that detracts from them – they’re chasing a high and the remote possibility of the reward of eventually being the exception to a shady rule.” – If there were check boxes next to everything Nat said, I’d have checked them all. I broke my back trying to win over a MM, chased highs (the daily text communications) and experienced the lows (when there were no texts coming in or when he’d disappear for a while) for an entire year. Now, I’m left alone wanting validation that I didn’t spend the entire year chasing and pursuing a MM hoping things would end up happily ever after for me and I’d be the exception to the rule and that he really didn’t just use me, he really did do and say those things because he cared. Well, I know I’ll never get this validation because 1. he’s incapable of even telling me how he feels – he has proved he’s EU and 2. he wasn’t mine to begin with.
With all the chatting about specific dates, it brought to mind that today is exactly one year ago that I flew to see him and gave him everything I had left of me to give…in hopes to win him over. Oh, how I wish I couldn’t remember this. Wish I couldn’t remember how it felt to be with him and the things he said to me making me believe it would last and that I was special. That we really would be the reunited childhood sweethearts I read about and watch on tv. How childish and stupid on my part. Now I’m left not knowing who I am anymore, feeling hollow inside with nothing to give anyone else. A few weeks ago, I sent a goodbye email to start my NC. Even though he has attempted to communicate with a few lame texts, I’ll admit I fell off the perverbial wagon but got back on last week, today is one week of NC. This is the first full week in one year that we haven’t communicated. He didn’t send any texts nor did I. I just feel as if I’m doing NC by sitting around hoping to hear from him and I know that’s not the point of NC. This is horrible. I know he’s out with his family and friends living it up. I go out with my friends and try to distract myself, but end up looking at the clock wanting to get home.
I did do some volunteer work this weekend by going to a nursing home and visiting the residents. Thought it would help to take the focus off me and give back to others. I knew what today was going to represent. It worked while I was there, but as soon as I returned home to silence, it’s like I fell back into this black hole of wondering…Wondering if I’ll ever hear from him again, why I put myself in this predicament, and what is wrong with me to even want someone so insensitive and uncaring in my life to start with…
“You don’t need someone and a situation disconnecting you from your beauty inside and out, your intelligence, kindness, maturity, your emotional honesty, your general honesty, your values, your plans, goals, dreams, desires, and more.”
Thanks for writing this Nat. This sentence is exactly what I did. I don’t even know what my values, goals and dreams are anymore. And I certainly don’t feel valued by myself or anyone else right now. I feel as if I’m grieving a death. The death of my inner self and values AND the death of what I thought would be a happily ever after.
Hi, Complicated,
Getting rid of a MM is like getting rid of a drug addiction. You feel lonely when you come back home and start thinking that his company is better than what you feel.
It’s not, it’s an illusion.
Remember the pain and the humiliation you feel when he leaves your house and goes home to his wife. Remember the fear, all that waiting for nothing, the broken promises, the lies, the emptiness you feel with him after sleeping with him. Compare it to the loneliness you feel now and see that the MM makes you far more unhappy.
I know from my experience how hard it is, all that emptiness and loneliness. I also did most of the things you described and felt like a powerless spectator to my own life for months after beginning the NC.
NC is hard but it’s the only way out. Thanks to Natalie and this blog I’m better now, although I can’t say I’m completely healed.
You have just begun the painful journey. It takes time to heal and enjoy life again.
Trust yourself, you did the right thing when you went NC, it’s the first step forward. Treat yourself with kindness and patience, as you would treat a good friend.
Hugs
Hi Mirelle,
You are so right. Being involved with a married man is absolutely like a drug addiction. The highs when you receive texts and the lows when you don’t hear anything at all. I feel like I’m in withdrawl right now as a matter of fact. When you said “..powerless spectator to my own life for months after beginning the NC” I couldn’t have agreed with you more. I know I’ve just started this journey but I feel right now as if I’m just getting by each day. Cold and numb to everything around me. I am ready to be happy and enjoy life again. I’m ready to be back to my old self who was happy and filled with laughter. Hopefully this journey on BR and continuing NC will get me there. Thanks for your kind words. They were very much needed today.
Complicated
A general observation – we all have bad days. Here’s the thing – EVEN IF there is no MM or EUM or breakup. That’s part of being human.
I am happy, especially since I have gotten over all my breakups. I like my job and my home. I get on with my family. But I still have days where I feel gloomy – maybe it’s the weather, or I haven’t seen any friends for a while, or I’m missing the family, or it’s hormonal.
You don’t have to feel great all the time.
Everyone feels the way you do during NC, especially in the early days as the benefits haven’t kicked in yet. It would be a shame to endure the rough bit and then fall off the wagon only to have to endure it again. Tough it out. There are days when we all have to do that. Even if you’re happily married with children running around you. Probably even more so!
Grace – Perfectly said. Those few months when I finally went NC and stuck to it were awful for sure. But I kept on doing and living and working and studying and visiting friends and family and going out and staying in and watching tv and sleeping and being bored and being angry and eating lunch and crying and laughing and enjoying things and hating stuff – I felt what I felt and kept on going, refusing, absolutely refusing to break NC. What I learned most of all from all this is just what you said: we all have good days. we all have bad days. we all have awful awful days. But over analyzing how I felt never got me anywhere. That’s the balance-To feel what there is to feel but not create such drama around the feeling. Instead make my life about doing things that make me proud of myself – and the feeling of happiness, satisfaction, worth, love, respect all follow. As we come to the end of the year for once I’m not anxious to start fresh in 2012 – I’m excited to keep on this road, to keep going, to keep on doing what I’m doing. I find that I’ve brought the best out in myself. And I’ve started dating. I can’t put into words how good it’s been except to quote Natalie: “A healthy relationship shines inside and out,…” There is no better way to describe it. Relationships are easy when there’s love, and I’ve discovered that respect – both of myself and of him for me – are crucial to love. There’s no hurricanes or major emotional managing when a relationship works. It just flows. And somehow (and I never thought this was possible) two people can live their lives individually together, rooting each other on without saving or rescuing or managing each other. The compromises come from respecting and caring not from ultimatums, and they come easily and happily. The differences are complementary not cruel and hurtful. The acceptances of eachother don’t require negotiating values, they are true acceptances of another person who works for the person I am. These days (months actually) I realise I’ve finally learned to walk the thin line between love and co-dependency. It’s a thin line for me with massive distinctions. Every year I buy a new ornament for my Christmas tree – usually a representation of the year. This year it is a big, glittery, bold airplane! Who knew? 😉
snh
Happy to hear your story and congratulations!
It’s seeing the good relationships around me between friends, parents and children, husbands and wives that I’velearned what a good relationship should look and feel like. So encouraging.
Thanks Grace. And a lot of my transformation on how I see myself in relationships is due to this site, Natalie’s posts and all the honest comments and support. So thank you! 🙂
Hi Grace,
Yes, I’m definitely waiting for the benefits of NC to kick in. There are some days when I feel empowered and that I’ll get through this if I just hold on tight. Then, there are the other days that feels like I am walking around with this hole in my chest. I’m trying to focus more on treating myself well, doing things I enjoy, and finding out who I am again. It’s as if I lost who I was and what I wanted while focusing all my efforts on the MM. I’m reading everything Nat posts along with the new FBG book to help me stay strong and not fall off the wagon. I’ve done that before and it got me nowhere and only brought on more pain. Staying on the wagon is much easier than dealing with the aftermath of falling off. I learned that the hard way. I just need to keep that in mind on the bad days.
I’m relatively new to this blog, but already I’ve found so much support and insight. This site has been such a godsend to me. Thank you all!!! On Friday, I was all prepared to break up with my bf of 14 months. We had gone through several months of hell with him lying about watching porn, me breaking off our engagement, and subsequent fighting.
On our one year anniversary he broke up with me. Said he had gotten lost in all the fighting and needed to find himself. Still not sure what he meant by that. Three weeks later I heard from a friend that he didn’t consider us “over”. That was all I needed. I was back on the phone with him asking if he wanted to get back together. He said he did, but he couldn’t commit to the relationship 100%. One week later he said he was all in. HOWEVER, i was initiating pretty much all communication, arranging all our dates, and paying for couple’s counseling.
Initially I dismissed his lack of effort because I knew I had really hurt him by breaking off the engagement, and I thought he was upset and guarded because of that. But after several weeks, I was so exhausted by carrying the weight of the relationship like was. I asked him to treat me like his girlfriend: call me once in a while, initiate communication, ask me out, be affectionate. He said he needed me to be patient–he was really hurt and I needed to give him time to feel comfortable doing those things. All I wanted was to him to do basic things, like when I texted him: “I’m looking forward to seeing you” to respond in kind. He just said that he couldn’t do that at the moment.
Well, after two months I felt like I just couldn’t take it anymore. I felt so ignored, so rejected, and so unloved; I knew things had to change. On Friday, I had prepared to break up with him, but he told me that he thought things could work and that we both needed to change. I agreed. Less that 24 hours later, HE broke up with ME. Said that all I cared about was myself and my own feelings.
I’ve been struggling with that. Maybe I should have been more patient. Maybe I was being selfish and not taking his needs and hurts into account. I just hate feeling like if I had stuck it out longer, things may have worked out. I hate these feelings of regret!
Hi Laurie, I’m sorry to hear that this is how things have wound up but the writing unfortunately was on the wall from when he lied for several months, broke up with you on your 1 year anniversary, said he couldn’t commit 100% (whatever the frick that means), then said he could, then basically carried on like an injured party and made little effort, then said he needed more time, then said he wanted to work at thing and then broke up with you. What he has relied on is you not being a woman of your word and being very accommodating of his behaviour.
Now this may be hard to hear, but neither you nor him want to be in a relationship where you have to micromanage it. From the whole porn situation to you having to ask him to treat you like his girlfriend – it was becoming a rather undignified situation.
I can tell you flat out, the issues in your relationship have nothing to do with patience. You’ve had that in spades? How much time do you think would be appropriate? He’s had 14+ months.
This is not a patience issue. This is a values issue. You don’t want him watching porn. He doesn’t see what the big deal is so kept it on the down low. You broke it off. Then he broke it off. Then you hunted him down. Then you didn’t like him not treating you like a girlfriend. He doesn’t see what the big deal is.
You’re both incompatible.
And remember this for any relationship moving forward: when you break a relationship and opt to go back, whatever broke the relationship must be resolved. You two should not have been back together because what the frick was the point in getting back together when he couldn’t even bring himself to treat you like a girlfriend?
And the other thing you need to remember: raise your expectations. Fast. Whatever relationship train you’ve been on, get off it and stay off it because you must never chase around someone advising them how they *should* be treating you when they’re already *not*. The things you were asking him to do – it’s the type of thing you’d expect from someone you hardly know, not someone you’re engaged to. Call once in a while? Initiate communication? Ask you out? At this rate you’d have had to get a strap on for him! When he said he needed time, I was like “Oh heeeeelll no!” So what the frick is he doing in the meantime?
Laurie, I know you were engaged, I know you’re hurt, and that you obviously have feelings for him, but you can and will do better. Do not chase this man. You will make a muppet out of yourself and have him feeling like he’s a ‘victim’. He is manipulative and shady, and that’s not so much that he watches porn but because he lies about it like some spotty teenager and turns everything into something about him. You have no rights in this relationship. Be thankful you’re out of it and stop allowing him to dictate what you think! You wouldn’t jump off a bridge if he told you to so stop taking his diagnosis as verbatim.
My heart just hurts sometimes from all these Guys who do this shit!!Nat do you ever think that one day they will sit abck and feel bad??
Brenda
Brenda- I’ve asked this question many times before. And I’m not Nat 🙂 but I’ve come to this conclusion: maybe they will, and maybe they won’t, and who cares if they do or don’t. Whether they do or don’t has no impact on us other than we get to feel “right” about something. But what an odd, roundabout way of cultivating our own self worth and feelings of empowerment and validation? There are some shady, ridiculous, bitter, angry, issue-full people out there – men and women. The real question is: why do we STAY with them long enough so that whether they feel bad about how WE’VE ALLOWED THEM to treat us is even a question? Wouldn’t a healthy person say “ouch” and then move decidedly out of the way, caring more about getting out and staying away from the source of the pain than reasoning and analyzing and trying to get them to see why they hurt us?
There’s no guarantee against getting involved with shady, hurtful people – some people are great actors! But the issue is the majority of us STAY with these people that treat us so poorly, and then complain about it as we allow them to continue to treat us poorly and then wonder why they don’t feel bad about treating us poorly as we allow them to treat us poorly. Round and round we go. They’re just being themselves. We’re the ones rationalizing the irrational (as Natalie would say) and staying with people that are flat out incompatible.
Thanks so much, Natalie. I feel like a character in a film, crying hysterically and talking nonsense until someone suddenly slaps them and brings them back to reality. That was my proverbial slap. I sure needed it!
I guess I initially felt like it was a matter of patience because A) he kept telling me i wasn’t being patient and B) he treated me like an absolute queen for nine months before the whole porn stuff came out and I broke off the engagement. I just felt like with a little more time he would be the attentive and affectionate bf that he used to be. But I know I shouldn’t have had to ask him to treat me like a girlfriend. I realize that’s ridiculous and it was demeaning and controlling for me to ask those things of him.
There is no way in hell I’m going to chase after this guy. I’m not going to give him yet another opportunity to reject me. It’s just a hard pill to swallow when you realize that someone who treated you so well for a sustained period of time is incapable of treating you that way anymore.
I have made a commitment to myself that I’m not going to waste this pain and I’m going to learn from this experience. I’m just so, so thankful that I’ve found this website. God, I have so much to learn!
Laurie
There are plenty of relationship advice out there advocating talking and expressing your needs etc as key to getting what you want from a relationship – especially for women. I don’t hold that view. It’s harsh, but to me it sounds like a manifesto for … nagging. It brings up an image of a woman talking, talking, talking while the man just wants to be left alone. Yes, the man is at fault, but the woman isn’t doing herself any favours by still being there. Your case is particularly desperate because you are asking for the absolute bare minimum. In my new state of mind, I would consider that to be beneath me.
I think it’s better to look at what you have with this man and ask is this working for me?
And look to yourself. I think a constant need to Florence, to “look after” people, to micronmange, to control is a way of distracting ourselves from our own inner unhappiness. If I can get him to do what I want I will be happy. You may find it hard to believe, but I strongly feel that even if this man DID come up with the goods (which he won’t so you can let that regret go), there would be something else you wouldn’t like about him – his hair, his clothes, his job, whatever.
Fact is, you don’t like him as he is (and why would you), so best for both of you to move along. Especially best for you because I fail completely to see what you are getting out of this.
Thanks, Grace. All of these things are so hard to hear, but I know I need to hear them! I’m definitely being schooled 🙂
When I read your comment about being a nagging Florence, I felt myself getting a bit defensive at first. I’m not a nag! But then I got to thinking…I asked him to stop meeting up with ex-girlfriends and other women for lunch/dinner. And he did. I asked him to put a program on his computer to prevent him from looking at porn. And he did…for a while. I asked him to pay me compliments. He never did really get that one. And then finally, I asked him to treat me like a girlfriend. Oh. My. Gosh. How pathetic I’ve been!!! And what an obnoxious nag. I am so ashamed of myself.
My bf and I had been going to a counselor who encouraged this type of disclosure, but I think you’re right, Grace. I should have realized that our values were not in line, and that it is degrading and controlling to expect or ask someone to change their values.
Here I was with a guy who had no job, no education, and who was constantly bringing up the fact that I was physically out of his league. Meanwhile, I’ve received promotion after promotion at my job and I’m working on my second master’s degree. If I’m being honest with myself, even if everything had worked out, I think I would always feel like I married beneath me. And that is so incredibly unfair—to me and to him. We both deserve better. Recognizing that has really helped me let go of that regret.
Thanks for helping me see that.
Laurie
“Obnoxious nag” is overstating it. I think it’s natural to move from blaming him to blaming yourself, but time heals and one day (not too far in the future if you stick to NC) you’ll look back and … laugh. “I can’t believe I did that”. You’ll have forgiven yourself for making a mistake.
I was in a similar position to you years ago, chasing down a man who kept breaking up with me. We got married and within a year I started divorce proceedings. Sometimes we are so caught up in fighting and winning that we lose sight of what it is we actually want. Can this man EVER give you what you want?
I don’t feel sorry for your ex because his behaviour has been very poor . I did feel sorry for my ex husband in the end ,even though his behaviour had been poor too, because I KNEW he wasn’t right for me the day we married and it would have helped us both if I’d walked away. I had huge issues around depression etc, but I’m not too proud to say it – I married him because I wanted to be “right”. Don’t make the same mistake!
When you love someone you love them as they are, not because they would be acceptable if they did everything on an imaginary checklist, that would keep getting longer and longer as you struggle for the thing that would make you love him. When trust has been destroyed sometimes you just don’t get it back. It’s okay to admit that and walk away. especially since, phew, you didn’t marry him after all!
Talking of marriage, I read somewhere that a divorce lawyer said divorces would be cut dramatically if she could be at every wedding and ask the prospective bridge and groom, separately, “If you could walk away now without any consequences – would you?”
Luckily, you can still walk away without any consequences – except to build a better life for yourself.
Thanks again, grace. And you have no idea–this would have been marriage number 2 for me. Yikes! Just think, I could have been divorced twice over before my 30th birthday. *shudder* Obviously, I’m doing wrong here…
Hi Laurie, annoyingly I wrote a comment earlier to you that vanished but wanted to highlight something here which I think you are missing as the crux of the matter:
The problem isn’t the porn. I know you think it is, but it’s not. He’s a grown man. If he wants to look at porn, there’s very little you can do about it..as proved. If it’s that much of a dealbreaker where you’d need to be tracking his movements on a computer and blocking (are you sure he’s not a teen?), you shouldn’t have been together.
The more you have shared, the more it appears that you had some sort of elevated status in the relationship. You sound, from how it is portrayed, that you brought a lot to the table. With that, whether it’s communicated or not, there are certain expectations that come with it.
The problem was control, rebellion, and a greatly imbalanced relationship. It’s also important to recognise that for what was actually a very young (as in the length) relationship, there was too much going on. Counseling already? Really you’re not that desperate to settle down even with the pressure from family.
If I didn’t have a job, no education and considered you physically out of my league, I’d have to resort to my charm and sexing you, maybe making myself indispensable….which could feel like being treated like a ‘princess’.
Initially when you asked him to stop accessing porn, it would have been a bit like a mama giving the house rules. He wanted to please you and to be fair, he was hardly going to turn around and say no. Over time though, like the cheater who rebels against their partner by playing hooky on the relationship with someone else, he began to rebel against the level of control you had in this relationship as doing these ‘secret’ acts helped to level things somewhat. He may not even *like* porn that much but it sounds like the bee in your bonnet. Of course he wasn’t to know that when you found out, you’d ‘punish’ him by calling off the engagement. The message was clear – he did wrong and his punishment was your trust in him to remain engaged.
It must have also been quite a blindside to discover that this person who you thought was adoring and treating you like a princess, was doing this thing you’d forbidden, which no doubt made you question your confidence in him. It was an area of your relationship that was out of your control.
While you did continue dating, I imagine his pride was wounded (both publicly with friends and family, and privately alone with himself or you) and he felt angry at both himself and you, but probably more at you. Like when my mother used to ground me and then get sick of my moping and moodiness and release me from my punishment, he took his punishment but maliced you and then it became more about him being upset than about you. You were sucking up to him…while also still having to ‘direct’ him on how to behave.
This relationship wasn’t mutually respectful.
Parents can punish children (depending on what the punishment is) and still do so within the confines of the child knowing they are loved. This doesn’t however work very well for adult relationships. I’d say the same thing to you if you decided to punish him with silent treatment. I imagine that he must have cast an eye to the future and it no doubt dawned on him that should he not tow the party line, there would be dire consequences, ones that affect his ‘quality of life’ too. By behaving as he did after you broke off the engagement, he then ensured that had you both continued, you’d have thought twice about ‘punishing’ in this manner in the future – passive aggression.
It was also a bait and switch – the control switched over to him.
You thought he’d reflect regret for his actions in his future actions. If anything, you might have thought he’d be doing double time on how he treated you when you were first together and essentially ‘win’ back the engagement. Instead, he was cold. No doubt you even second guessed yourself and maybe even started to wonder if it was ‘all you’. You were then sucking up to him.
You were both being devalued by this relationship. You need someone who you look at and regard and treat as on your level – this isn’t and wasn’t him and moving forward, you may want to address why a relationship like this would tick your boxes in the *first* place.
Thanks Natalie. That makes sense but it also makes me feel sick. Did I sabotage this relationship by “punishing” him?
I was waiting for you to ask that Laurie.
Why didn’t you ask if he was sabotaging the relationship by punishing you? Why didn’t you ask if he was sabotaging the relationship by not just lying, but doing the type of barefaced, mind fuckery lying that leaves you reeling when you find out that they *are* actually lying? Why didn’t you ask if you were sabotaging your chance of having a healthy, mutual relationship by choosing a partner that it wouldn’t have worked out with. And it wouldn’t. A relationship based on control and adoration from beneath a pedestal cannot last.
You’re looking at the end of the relationship which is often convenient to look at because it’s easy to blame yourself and hang it all on something that didn’t actually break the relationship when you could actually look at what this relationship was based on, the lies, the imbalance etc.
It’s not all about you. He was in the relationship too. And yes, in his own effed up way, he did sabotage the relationship. It’s hard looking up to a pedestal and it’s also hard to actually live up to expectations consistently when that may not be on your agenda in the medium to long-term. Someone in his situation is initially flattered that a woman like you wants a man like him, which is why he said he’s out of your league. But then he wondered what was ‘wrong’ with you in the first place that you were with him.
You punishing him gave him an out. He let himself off the hook and he will never consider what he actually did to contribute to this, because he can put it all on you and act like the injured and *innocent* party.
Natalie,
Thanks a ton. I feel like you’ve been able to identify the issues that I couldn’t see for myself. I’m not sure how you do it! I will sleep easier knowing that this relationship was doomed anyway, and even though I was wrong to punish, the relationship would have ended anyway. I just want to learn from this so that I don’t find myself in another imbalanced relationship where I’m punishing, nagging, and fighting for control.
I recognize that it was incredibly selfish of me to engage in an imbalanced relationship. I did it because somehow I thought I was guaranteed that he would never leave or cheat on me. It gave me a false sense of security. That’s pretty f*cked up. If I’ve learned anything over the past few days it’s that I have a lot of growing up to do before I’m ready for a healthy relationship. I can’t begin to thank you for all your help!
Laurie,
I agree with Natalie’s comment, and I will add that he sounds childish, selfish, and stubborn. He knew that his behavior upset you yet made no effort to change it. Instead he acted like a misbehaving child and sulked. Seems in his mind he was not wrong, and thinking “how dare she tell me I must change? She’s the one who’s wrong. She needs to apologize to me” Just imagine this continuing on in marriage and beyond. No one wants to “parent” their bf or husband. You shouldn’t have to. It’s annoying and upsetting, I’ve been there. You deserve/need better. Don’t settle for anything less than a man. A caring man who shares your values and is not a stubborn drama king. You’ve dodged a bullet on this one. Sending good thoughts your way.
CrumbsNoMore,
What a great name—that is going to be my motto from now on: crumbs no more! Thanks so much for your comments. I think you’re right on. Even his friends warned me that he was a “drama queen”. Red flag anyone? Apparently I didn’t want to accept that.
I really want to believe that there is an emotionally mature man out there for me. I’ve just never been in a relationship with one. But I’m realizing that part of that falls on me. I’m never going to have a healthy, mature relationship if I keep trying to “make it work” with guys who clearly are not ready for that. Also, the fact that I’m willing to settle in the first place is an indictment on my own maturity.
I think there’s a lot of work I need to do on myself before I’m ready for that kind of relationship. I’ve heard it said that you attract the kind of person who reflects your beliefs about yourself, and that scares the hell out of me! As long as I feel like I can’t do any better, or that I’m 27 and need to hurry the hell up and settle down; I’m going to find myself in dodgy relationships. Time to go to work on me.
Good thoughts back atcha 🙂
Laurie,
Thanks for responding. You are not alone w/your experiences and struggles, every woman who reads or posts on BR can identify w/the situation you had & are going through in some way. I know it’s hard, I was lucky that I wasn’t engaged to any of my former EUM’s/AC’s that I was involved with in some way over the years but it did hurt nonetheless when I finally woke up and came to the realization that they expected ME to keep on footing the bill emotionally. Cater to them, make them feel important and special while they were treating me with little attention, care, and respect. Oh, the insanity. But they were so charming and caring at times, I kept hoping something would change and they would choose to treat me that way all the time. That’s the craziest thing about EUM’s they have split personalities. Did I mention I lost some of my self-respect along the way for putting up with it for quite awhile? I too lectured and “nagged” them to behave, believing like you did & what many psychology books say to do, “express your wants/needs/feelings” to your guy, it will solve the issues & bring you closer.” Yeah, that might work if the guy you’re with has deep feelings for you & cares that some of the things he’s doing upset you. I had no success with it with them b/c bottom line, their values did not match mine. I don’t really believe the whole you attract what you are thing. I am not like those guys I was with. But I attracted them. But healthy guys were/are attracted to me to, only I found them “boring.” I ignored their requests to hang out or date & chose to invest in the EUM’s. I think I was mainly drawn to them subconsciously b/c they seemed shy like me at first, and mysterious. Also I felt they needed my help in some way. Sounds ridiculous to me now, thank God I now recognize it for what it is. I recommend reading the book, Women Who Love Too Much, it was quite educational for me. You deserve better, I deserve better. I’m focusing on healing now & being the best me I can be. Showing myself more self-respect & self-care. Gaining more hobbies. I advise you to do the same. Next go round I’m making a point of dating outside my “type” like Natalie suggests, since my track record shows 99% of the guys I’ve been involved w/have been EUM’s. Luckily I can now recognize them for who they are & choose to avoid them. Best Wishes, CrumbsNoMore
Thanks, again.
It is SO encouraging to know that I’m not alone in feeling this way. Can you expand on what you mean about split personalities? My ex treated me AMAZINGLY and consistently well for 9 months. When the whole porn stuff came out and I broke off the engagement he completely changed the way he treated me. That’s why I feel I must be responsible for the way he ended up treating me. We’re talking about a complete Dr. Jeckel to Mr. Hyde transformation. Does this really happen to other people? I can understand uncommitted guys blowing hot and cold over the course of a few months. But red hot for nine months and then a sudden and perpetual ice king? What gives?
Laurie,
Went back and reread your main post again. I think he fits more in AC/drama king territory than EUM though he did withdraw his feelings at one point. I guess his porn was/is important to him, important enough to fight over it with you rather than just quit viewing it. Sounds like it was an addiction for him, to the point where he risked his relationship with you over it & it ended up being a dealbreaker. Either that or he is just a stubborn type and refuses to ever compromise. Basically, he chose it over you. What a dumb choice.
Don’t beat yourself up over how things went. You were kind, giving. Stated your feelings. It was good that you aired them instead of pretending that it was not bothering you. His behavior was the issue. HE was the one who ultimately decided to handle things the way he did. That being said I’m sorry to hear he didn’t just quit viewing it for you. Then you would not have to be dealing with all this. Things will get better. Sending good thoughts your way.
CrumbsNo More,
Thank you. I’m sorry to keep going on and on. I did want to clarify one thing: he DID stop watching porn…to my knowledge. When he finally owned up to it after months of lying, he was contrite, and he put a program on his computer to block it. Even though he did this, it still disturbed me that he had lied about it and I broke off the engagement (although we continued to date). It was at that point that began a quick descent into completely ignoring me.
Laurie,
Thanks for the clarification. He still has issues though. I’m writing this b/c it sometimes helps to have someone on the outside say it. You have a good point he lied about the porn, which caused you to wonder if you could really trust him. Most people would react the way you did, break off the engagement & take a step back, which is what you did. Wishing you the best. You will meet someone whose values line up with yours. Be sure to exercise lots of self-care right now, focus on the things that make you happy. *HUGS*
Good evening Precious Ladies
We had some snow fall today which made me feel very excited as it looked beautiful out of my window but then I felt a little sad as I had nobody to share it with and then as the day went on I must of got sadder and sadder and this evening I was missing the AC/EUM so much and feeling lonely and nearly killing myself over the thought of him with his new woman but then I very very quickly jumped on this site and after reading on these posts I feel strong again, strong, positive and hopeful for the future, I am doing now what needs to be done, I am taking time out to truly truly heal myself so I never ever find myself in a similar situation again and the truth is, I felt more alone when I was with him than what I do now and I know I am getting stronger and that is priceless, the more time I take now in healing myself, the better my life will be, I am so totally not interested in dating for at least a couple of years and to be honest I would rather spend the rest of my life single than be in another situation like the one I just came out of so thank you Natalie from the bottom of my heart for sharing your insights with us and thank you all to you wonderful ladies for sharing your experiences and helping me in a way that only you ladies will understand. Thank you and I will go to be tonight feeling happy and content.
Oh Karen,I had this big sigh when I read this..
I know your hurting,and you have every right too.
6 years is a long time,And for him to just move on so quickly is so damaging..I know my ex ac is on some very shady dating sites,But I am also sure he is not there to find love,how could he,he does not know the meaning of the word..
I had a very rough day as well,I am a waitress and I see people all day holding hands across the table,married people,young love etc,,,And I yearn for that,to be loved,and I cant helo but feel a bit jealous inside,but you know,How many of those people are truly happy?
If they are great,but we are exactly where we are supposed to be right now,even if the hurt is so bad,we are here to learn how to heal in a healthy manner,how to feel good about ourselves,and untimately to become one with someone who loves just as we are…
Brenda
I wish I could forget, his b-day is Halloween! Talk about being haunted yearly by the ex.
Oops thought I replied under runnergirls earlier comment about forgetting b-days . New to this posting thing. Don’t know what happened
Sadly I’ll never be able to forget the date of my ex’s birthday either – it’s on Valentine’s Day. How ironic!
Hopefully next year, Radio Girl, we will be able to overwrite those two b-day memory days with happy thoughts…
Haha my exes is on New Years day! argh! x
Evening Karen, had to reply to your post, as I felt the same way this evening. I felt so sad and lonely and missing someone who clearly isn’t interested. I very nearly broke NC because I just want some closure and secretly want to hear from him again. So, before texting him I decided to check this site and saw your post and it reminded me that I’m not the only person going through this and if everyone else can continue NC so can I! I struggle with it every day BUT it is getting better and I too am trying to heal myself and get back my self esteem. I also can’t thank Natalie enough for all the no nonsense advice and all you ladies that post all your comments. Believe me when I say I rely on the love of my close friends, family and this site to get me through what has been an extrodinary difficult period in my life.
keep your chin up!!
i also feel like im the only person in the world who feels like this, and that nobody could possibly relate to my very situation, its very helpful to see that others are getting on with it =)
xx
First of all this blog is amazing!!! It made me realise what an EUM is and delete ‘one’ of them from my life. Perhaps it was easy to delete this guy because I never really had much interest in him in the first place and I realised he wasnt all there for me once I started responding to his ‘wooing’. After ‘dating’ for a while I.e dating in his bedroom, he lost his phone (which was legit) but never bothered to chase for my number directly as i’d seen on Facebook (damn facebook…that’s a whole other story) anyways I managed to delete him and have pretty much forgotten he existed. HOWEVER a guy I dated two years ago keeps turning up in my mind and in my life. We dates briefly but he was sweet and I believed we were going somewhere until he stopped communicating..cutting a long story short I found out after a month of him disappearing that he had a new gf thru facebook!!! I was no doubt hurt and p*ssed off because I had got the impression he didnt want a relationship…I now understood he didn’t want one with me. He broke up w said girl last year and contacted me but I was rather off with him still and was receptive to his sweetness! So he disappeared again! A year later he has contacted me again! Nice and sweet as always but with no indication of his intentions…he lives in another town now so there’s not much possibility we can meet up or date so WHY BOTHER ME??! This is all I want to know. It’s annoying because everytime I think of him I think ‘he didn’t choose me’ and it just brings up feelings that I wasn’t good enough. I want to ignore him but I have the added complication that he is a friend of a very good friend (how we met in the first place). I feel I should be civil just to save face and be ther better person? What should I do???
Chloe,
They bother you because for them it’s just a game. They love drama. They want to feel that wherever they go, girls gasp and go mad for them. I know, SICK. Be thankful you weren’t chosen. You’d be one of many in his harem.
As for being civil, if you think you’re strong enough to be able to ignore him, then yes. Otherwise…I had to give up a whole group of people in order to avoid mine. I thought I was strong enough, but everytime I saw him, my heart bled!!! So now I think of myself first and foremost and avoid, avoid, avoid. I feel much better as a result.
Take care of yourself and don’t let him make you feel bad. He’s not worth it!!!!
Chloe, having been in a similar situation myself, I can tell you that the “sweet” act is something you should ignore. The reason he’s rolling up acting super-nice is because he’s pulled a disappearing act before and is trying to force out the memory of his jackass-ness. Genuinely nice people don’t pop up and disappear repeatedly. It’s crappy behavior and I also think it’s pretty manipulative. As for him dating other women – well, I have a feeling that there’s a reason none of those relationships worked out. Real commitment issues seep into ever interaction – it’s not like, “Well, with Chloe I’m going to disappear and the press the Reset Button like nothing happened…repeatedly. With Susie down the block, however, I’ve sorted out all my issues and I’m ready for a relationship.” You can be civil with him, but other than that, just ignore him. I don’t think you have to worry about saving face in this scenario at all – you have nothing to be ashamed of. I think in these situations we get so focused on the “rejection” that we miss the main point, i.e. the guy is a tool. Here is some info on Those Who Press The Reset Button – if you haven’t seen it, I think you’ll really find it helpful. Hope this helps!
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/when-someone-keeps-presses-the-reset-button-on-your-relationship/
I’m back from my getaway with some close family members. We had a wonderful time and I am here now feeling sad because I came home and I am alone, again.
I waited a solid week to get to this point and figured I’d do it here “publicly” because you would know what this feels like. At least you’d understand. I am going to delete the old texts that I’ve been saving in my phone from ex MM. And I’m deleting his number again. So I don’t have to see any of it when I go in my phone to look for other numbers/texts. It feels like I’m a drug addict dumping my pills down the toilet to flush. Damn it this is difficult. If I am keeping me in mind here, it’s better to delete all this than to have to see it all the time. So here goes….ok I did it.
I put “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to the Law of Attraction” on my Amazon wishlist. I need to work on that….not that I’m an idiot..but I have obvious trouble there. I’ve traded myself down in all my relationships. It was easier to shut me off and go along to win approval and all that. I can’t just tell my feelings to go away for him. Now, I’m going to cook some dinner, put my PJs on and relax.
Congrats colororange on passing another milestone as you keep going through the process of letting go and moving on and taking care of yourself. Keeping your best interests in mind, doing what’s healthier for you, suffering the short term pain for the long term gain. It’s wonderful to see a healthy process at work. It’s proof that we CAN learn how to take care of ourselves in a loving way, and that if keep at it we will get results. You are showing everyone that it is possible. That we all can do it. We just have to work through, find our way and not give up. We will get to a better place.
Appreciate it Dawn 🙂
You all have no idea how much this site has meant to me. After break up #3 with my ex-EUM of 5 on/off years, I had no idea who to turn to or where to go. Nobody I knew was going through what I was going through. When I stumbled upon this site, I cried tears of joy. The sense of support here is something I’ve never experienced and will never forget.
I’ve been NC for about 3 months now. After every breakup I did NC because knowing anything about my life and wellbeing was a privilege and an honor, something he never deserved. After dating round 1 for 2 years, I did NC for another 2 years. Round 2 occurred after several run ins (we go to the same church) and lasted about 8 months. I did NC for another 7months before he showed up at my door one random March day this year when it was pouring rain, begging for my forgiveness.
I took him back out of sheer loneliness (@ this point I just ended a 4month fling, was moving to a new country in 3 months for my PhD). Heard promises of never leaving, marriage, kids, moving to new country with me. 3 months after my move he ended things the same way he always did (he’s scared, things have changed, blah blah blah). I had dejavu in a city I’ve never lived in.
Honest to God though I wasn’t surprised. I didn’t truly believe his promises, I knew it was pure crap based on his past lying record. I traded down knowing how difficult this move would be for me, how much I would struggle to make a new life with new friends. I knowingly traded down so I wouldn’t be alone. And all I did was delay it while feeling so so ashamed I let it happen again with EUM.
Never again will I trade down or convince myself that it is okay to trade down to avoid facing starting over.
And Natalie, even in the lowest moments of my move (post break up), I have never felt so free or relieved. Thank you for your constant wisdom and nonjudgmental support.
I have been dating someone for 2 months and he broke it off yesterday. Im not 100% sure what happened with him, but I got this gut feeling the last time I saw him that his interestes was waining. I felt so anoyed about it and did my best to put it out my mind. But I cracked and sent him a text saying that I felt he was losing interest. I didnt get no reply, left it a whole day and then called. No answer. Then later I was going passed his house and knocked on his door. He answered but he was cold with me and told me he was busy. It was embarasing. I wanted to apologise for the text, as it was inappropriate to start that conversation by text.
Now, I felt a week ago his interest was going slightly when I called him, but we still met up on Thursday. Went out and had news, I’ve been ‘fired’ from my job, which for me is good news, as it wasnt working and I am moving onto another job in Jan. I told him about work and he seemed a little taken back. I explained more and he then called me a ‘troublemaker’ in a humourous fashion, I laughed it off but this comment didnt sit well with me. The rest of the night was ok but I was left with this feeling that he wasnt feeling it anymore. Things were going fine before, I was taking it at a pace, we had slept together after about 7 dates (about 6 weeks). He showed no signs or amber signals. If im not the girl for him ok! but he sent me a text last night (same evening I went to his house) saying he wants to break it off. No explanation or anything. The only thing I can think of 9that is to do with me – as it could be anything) is that we slept together too soon and that I was starting to become more ‘attached’, although I let him take the lead most of the time. But what I would like an opinion on is, why was he so wierd after I told him about my change of job? why did he label me a trouble maker? did I send this message? and whats wrong with this!
nk,
What you noted was correct: He was losing interest in you. Really, it doesn’t matter what he said, or how he labeled you, the relationship is over. There’s nothing to gain in texting, calling, or showing up at his door. No amount of analyzing what went wrong will fix this. He didn’t make any commitments, and he has none to honor. He may not have the right words for this, but he was trying to tell you. And, there’s nothing wrong with you, either. It’s rough to be out of a job, and newly broken-up at the same time, especially this time of year.
Once you have mourned the loss of this relationship. you have some new activities to start instead: Treat yourself well, start a vigorous physical exercise program , arrange for activities with friends or family, do charity work in this season, fill your time with helping yourself and others.
I’m sorry for what happened, but you can be strong and move on.
nk: I’m sorry to hear about your job (although you seem okay with it) and I’m sorry that the man you were seeing broke it off. It’s not fun. But I have to agree with SaraK’s response to your post: it wasn’t him and it wasn’t you. People break up with people all the time. It’s painful, especially if you were getting attached, but it’s part of dating – and as Natalie pointed out in a post once (I’d hoped to find it and post the link here), just because he broke it off with you doesn’t make him an assclown or an EUM or even disrespectful. If someone loses interest I’d say the most respectful thing they can do is break it off. He had the right to date to you and see if you guys are compatible, just as you were (hopefully) doing with him. He also had the right to break it off with you, and he didn’t owe you an explanation frankly. Most people who date and find it’s not working break up, and then move on. It’s us that tend to do the over-explaining and over-analyzing and believe that that’s the right way. And honestly, it could have been the other way around – you might have decided that the “troublemaker” comment was amber-flag behavior to you and called it off with him, right? You wouldn’t have owed him a length explination why either. Now that it’s over don’t sweat it. I’d just chalk it up to dating – some work, some don’t. Keep focusing on you, doing what you love and being around people that love and care about you. I just wouldn’t spend too much time analyzing why he broke it off. The reality is he did, and it’s over. To over analyze this break up would be an awful waste of your precious time. Especially after only 2 months. Good luck!
Snh; I agree that its fine to break it off if we are in compatible. I don’t agree that he isn’t required to give me an explanation I’ve seen him twice a week for 2 months. For him to just send me a text and close the door on my face when I was most likely going to break it with him there and then as I knew he was losing interest and didn’t want to wait really just wanted it over than done with.
Rejection isn’t really the issue here. It’s how he done it. I emailed him and he replied today with one of the most nastiest emails I have ever received. He showed his Dickhead side. He accused me of acting like his gf but he was pushing things more than me – trust!
I would never break it off with someone who I spent so much time with so rudely. That’s that. I don’t think its bad to analyse either. How will I learn something if I don’t reflect. I appreciate this point but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me and I know I deserve something good. And I will get it
Hi NK, I think the key word here is “required”. No he isn’t required to give you an explanation but it is the courteous and respectful thing to do after two months. If you were in a committed relationship, defined verbally as girlfriend/boyfriend, living together, whatever, yes he is required to give an explanation but even then it doesn’t guarantee you’ll get it. You are in the grey zone – dating for two months and what is clear from what you have shared is that you and him have a different view on what these couple of months meant.
What you should never do, is reduce yourself to being like a bailiff bashing down the door for the explanation that you believe you’re owed. You cannot demand it out of someone or even force them into it, or doorstop them into it. These, even when we think we’re being polite about doing them, are very confrontational.
Your ex isn’t really the talking kind and truth be told is a bit of a coward. To be fair to him, and I’m being generous, many people in the grey zone get cowardly even if it’s not that their natural disposition. His reasons for backing away may have nothing to do with you. The 2-3 month mark tends to be a period of time when commitment resistant people seem to start running their tap lukewarm or even cold. The clock starts ticking and they panic about what is expected from them.
I also feel it’s important to point out that your reasons for having sex are your reasons for having sex, but it doesn’t mean you’re owed a relationship. I say this because I see all too often this whole thing of “I’d never have had sex if…” but it’s not really a currency. His reasons for having sex may be altogether different and particularly during these early months, it’s a time of discovery where perceptions or even your own needs change.
He does sound like he’s been very rude and avoidant, but you also need to step away from the light. This man is not your key to life. Yes he could give you an explanation but there’s nothing to say that what he says is 1) true or 2) helpful.
Hi nk.This guy is for the kerb. Walk away.
It’s nothing to do with your job, sorry,he was half -hearted at best before you told him about your job…it may feel better for you to think of this as a reason, or blame yourself for sleeping with him too early but the evidence that this was a dead-end was there before.
You slept with him at six weeks, have known him for two months and he’s doing the fade on you…? He is showing you disrespect. It’s pretty obvious what he was interested in…a relationship(not!)
He stopped regular communication,name called, acted cold,told you he doesn’t want to see you. Believe him. Move on.
Do not waste anymore time analysing his reasons…if you have to reflect on anything, reflect on why you were content to put up with this shady behaviour and didn’t pull the plug and flush before now.
That’s where your head should be at now. Get your head up an keep it high.
Sometimes people start with half interest, yes really. It is like is is programmed to fail ANYWAY no matter what you do. After they sleep with you (which they expect is supposed to ‘convince’ them into an LTR with you, they lose all interest).
I spent months analysing and obsessing and it never ever got me anywhere (just gave me a huge headache and lost so much time off work) or the other person back. They’re STILL on the dating site after 8 months, and have been on there for 2 or so YEARS. Their last LTR was 3 years ago– so I tell myself that this person is on some kind of long haul run and given their history I wasn’t going to suddenly change their pattern.
Here is what goes through my head with each post I read on BR. 1. How does a woman get to be 51 years old and not know this stuff? I mean really? Did this information present itself and I just didn’t see it or what. I’ve always heard about self esteem, but BR puts it in concrete terms which inspire and motivate.
2. What in the world would my world look like had I not chanced across this life changing site? What and how do people thru the ages come to these realizations? This is a blueprint for all of society, it has been much more than a ‘relationship blog’ it is a life changing vehicle
3. Lastly, Natalie will you ever know the depth of gratitude from your readers? I know we always say how you read our minds and thank you for your insight. I wish I could find the exact phrase or word that conveys what your blog means to us all. Thank you is just too small… We LOVE you Nat! Keep up the GREAT works….
Hi Natalie,
I broke up with the love of my life in 2006. Since then I have dated the wrong brothers, each of them unavailable; physically and emotionally. Eventually, I gave up dating, and enrolled into a university for a graduate degree. That was my idea of an escape. I just can’t deal with heart break anymore. I feel like my heart has broken into pieces and no amount of glue can piece it back together. So I decided to stop messing around and work on ME; get myself together, love me first!!! I would love to fall in love again and believe in love again. How do I learn to love again?
When you learn to love yourself again. That’s when.
You have no idea how much this post meant to me this morning. I woke up feeling a hole in my chest that was crushing me and thinking that “he” was the only thing that could fill it. After reading this post I see that I am the one that must fill it. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
Lynda and Sara thank you for your kind comments. What you say is true! He lost interest and god knows why. I played it the best I could. When ever I have lost interest in a guy and he wants to know why I have told him. Sometimes its hard to explain. He could of just been interested in sex or a quick daliance but he did a good job of leading to think he was interested in more. Maybe he future faked? I wouldn’t of slept with him if I believed otherwise. He was in contact with me all the time and he asked me to go away with him in April.
As much as I know there’s nothing wring with me! I am always interested in feedback. I will not be internalising. Only information gathering. Unfortunately we can hold judgements and opinions of people and they don’t always turn out to be that person. In which case you were only interestred in an fake view of that person not who they really are…nml has done a few posts about this. I will be cool in a day or so. The anger about the disrespect may take longer…lol
NK,
I feel like we were dating the same guy! I dated him a couple of months ago for 2 months, and he just suddenly went cold on me and lost interest. It nearly killed me trying to work out what I had done wrong. I spoke to him about it and he said “babe you haven’t done anything wrong, I’m just very busy at the moment with work” and that’s it. He just stood me up then never contacted me again. The only difference is he did fake a future with me, he took me to some very nice places and we spent evenings together at his house, spoke about possibly having children, and marriage in the future, and he told me he wanted to take me on holiday! He basically told me things that he knew I would want to hear. Its such a hard pill to swallow because they really don’t need to take it that far and they just don’t realise the effect this type of behaviour can have on some people.But like you say its best not to internalise it because you were only interested in the fake person not the real one.
i been in a zone that i never been before seperated from my ex a year now and it been hell but everytime i read your aricle i feel understanding . you said things that im feeling but can not put it into words. for the past year im been fighting myself to make it about me . try the date thing for a minute but it was not helping me. last month i decide to take time off completetly and make time for myself. thanks for your word.
Thank you (again) Natalie for your words of wisdom xx
Hi stephanie
That sucks that your guy went that far. Mine didn’t go that far he just asked me to go on a group holiday apart from that he really didn’t talk about the future. As far as I was concerned it was going at a comfortable pace. I wasn’t mentally getting involved too quickly and im glad. But I will be waiting longer before I sleep with the next as i feel it was too quick. Thi’s is for my own protection. And I was proud of myself for not getting ‘into’ him too quickly and still continueing my personal development and not haulting it like I may have before. Good signs 😉 ill keep on my journey and perhaps as I get even more intune with myself ill attract the best one in the future. X
Laurie,
I’ve been there too, wondering whether I should have done X or Y differently, and making excuses for poor behaviour under the guise of the “hurt feelings” he may have. But what about him? Why is it all on you to try to fix things and make 100% of the effort? There may be things that you would go back and do differently, but you’re only human. More importantly, you can’t put the entire burden of making a relationship work on your own shoulders. It’s not fair, and you could do everything possible and have it still not be enough, because his issues are his own.
I don’t think asking him to treat you like a girlfriend is nagging, but I agree with the other commenters that it’s a red flag for you that you have to ask for such basic courtesies. I’ve learned that making excuses for bad behaviour is such a slippery slope. I did the same hoping that in time the guy would get over whatever bad feelings he may have had, but he seemed to take that as a license to treat me worse and worse. Do yourself a favour and cut contact with this guy before he puts you through any more than he already has.
Thanks, A.
I really appreciate your comments. I think I have a problem with constantly absorbing all or the majority of the blame in a relationship–especially if the guy started out treating me like a goddess. And for nine months he did exactly that. I’ve never felt so appreciated. And I think that’s why I put up with so much crap over the past few months. I surmised that I was completely responsible for his change in behavior, and if I waited it out, he would go back to being Mr. Wonderful.
If I’m being honest, that’s what I’m really struggling with at the moment. How can someone go from treating you so incredibly well to treating you like an afterthought and worse? It hurts.
Laurie
I don’t want to be treated like a goddess or a flippin princess. I just want to be treated in the way that my good friends treat me or my family members – like a PERSON with rights and responsibilities.
When someone flatters you, sexes you up, buys you stuff, takes you out – that is all very nice but don’t overvalue it. What’s going on underneath? And, yes, it’s there to see if you care to look.
Thanks grace. I’m not suggesting for a second that’s the way I expect to be treated-I must have been coming off as a brat. He just treated me like that right from the start, and I thought it just meant that he was really really into me.
I completely agree with you that the root of successful relationships begins at the CORE! That’s exactly my message on http://www.thepathtopassion.com
A successful relationship is the coming together of 2 successful individuals (inside & out). The way you process your thoughts and cope with your emotions will make or break a relationship. 🙂
Laurie,
I know how you’re feeling. I’ve spent time wondering how he could go from talking about marriage one week to not wanting a relationship the next. I don’t know what’s going through this guy’s mind, but he has shown you that he’s capable of immature, passive aggressive, and petty behaviour when things don’t go his way. Would you want to be in a relationship with someone who will act this way whenever times get tough? If this is his nature, it would have revealed itself somewhere down the line. It may take time, but I think that you may ultimately be grateful that he showed you who he is at this stage rather than years from now.
A,
Thanks again. That is such an encouragement to me!
Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a formula to getting past relationships like these, or even for avoiding them? Math is so straight forward, but somehow, the most obvious insensitive assclown manages to make you think they’re grey areas where there are none! I know that feeling of frustration where you know you can’t – and don’t want to – go back, but you’re stuck in limbo somehow. Your esteem is low, life isn’t progressing as you want it while on his side, everything is sunshine and bloody daisies. What a cruel joke we play on ourselves getting involved with cheap stock!