When you have low self-worth, you don’t treat and regard you as a worthwhile and valuable person, which in turn makes it difficult to comprehend, enjoy and in fact, trust a person’s interest in you. The way it works with negative beliefs is that you’re biased to look for evidence that supports the belief plus how you think affects what you say and do, otherwise you would have to change your beliefs. This results in a self-fulfilling prophecy.
What we don’t often admit to when we struggle with low self-worth, is that we have consciously and subconsciously developed ways of testing people out and proving our theories. A part of us gets to feel vindicated and “right” but then an even bigger part of us gets to feel wounded and stuck in the past.
As a young girl growing up in Dublin, Ireland, there weren’t many other black people about at the time (very different now!) and so I stood out and got noticed. For somebody who felt as if she had so little control and worth in her life, discovering that I could attract boys was at once a delicious boost of [pseudo] power and worth and at the same time, as the years went on, me who expected to be abandoned and who didn’t have very much self-belief, became increasingly suspicious of why somebody might want me. Ever since my teens I’d believed that the only reasons someone had to be interested in me was because of how I looked (and so who they assumed that I would be) and wanting to get into my pants, and various painful experiences acted as supporting evidence. It had become clear to me that I could certainly ‘get’ attention from guys but I couldn’t ‘hold’ them or ‘hold’ them and be treated decently and feel good about myself at the same time.
If there were 99 reasonably healthy relationship partners in a room and 1 shady/unhealthy one, I’d find that one.
It’s not as if someone who didn’t seem to match my belief alleviated my concerns– I just switched to being suspicious of why they were behaving that way or ruled them out as “too nice”. It’s as if I felt that they were too good for a “girl like me” and that it was only a matter of time until they discovered how rejectionable I was. I’d be a ‘nice icing girl’ covering up the ugliness of who I was. What I also didn’t acknowledge is that if I didn’t feel that I had any worth and only focused on, for instance, appearance, then of course I was also going to see and choose things in those terms.
My old secret test rolled out in a few different ways and was based on the premise: If a guy makes my physical attributes or his desire to bed me his primary focus via words or actions, things are doomed.
I decided that they didn’t want to truly get to know or value me.
I could have cut and run at the realisation that they’d failed (or passed the test depending on which way you want to look at it), but a very destructive part of me felt compelled to see things through, even though that meant causing a great deal of pain for myself. The disappointment along with the pressing on old wounds would activate this desire to win them over (mistaken for being ‘in love’), even if on another level I knew that I actually didn’t truly want this person. It meant staying in relationships that really needed to have gasped their last breath if not within hours, certainly within days or weeks at most. Instead I clocked up months or even a couple of years. Inwardly I’d numbed up to try to push down the pain, especially from recognising where I was failing to stand up for myself again and yet outwardly, I projected ‘normality’, smiling, pleasing, playing along.
By validating my belief, it felt as if they ‘knew’ something, that they could sense what I knew and felt. A part of me objected and would use people pleasing to try to convince them of my worth, obviously forgetting that me testing them and my concept of worth was my perception.
The thing about testing people out is that we either don’t own up to it, possibly because our hidden agenda is very well hidden from us, or we do, but fail to acknowledge how we’re setting up the scene to ensure that the self-fulfilling prophecy dice roll in our favour.
We’re setting ourselves up to fail. We get to be right, we get to feel safe because we’re not being truly vulnerable and we also ensure that we get to be miserable too. Similar to our inner critics, we criticise us for being around people who meet the criteria but then we criticise us also when they don’t. We doom ourselves because we fundamentally feel unworthy.
If we want things to change, we have to bring our feelings out into the open. At least then, we can get to know our behaviour and its origins and address it.
We can’t name and change what we don’t know.
When I finally acknowledged what I was doing, I had to ask myself: Is it worth staying in relationship that’s depleting what little self-esteem I have left, just so that I can prove that every crappy thing that I think and feel about me is true?
I didn’t want to be right anymore if this was the price I had to pay. I’m not that interested in being “right”, especially if it’s about investing my energy into reinforcing negative beliefs instead of changing them.
Looking back on my ‘testing times’, I realise that a lot of the resistance and confusion I felt was about feeling as if I was at odds with myself. How could I have healthier boundaries, treat and regard myself more kindly, not feel wary of someone not being all over me like a rash etc, if another part of me was running on a hidden agenda of proving a point that would create the exact opposite?
When we set these secret tests, we don’t think about the choices that we’re making and how we’re skewing the data to support our evidence for convicting us yet again of not being “ good enough” and for being responsible for other people’s behaviour.
In much the same way that a person whose overriding motivation is to be liked will find it very difficult to set boundaries when they really need to, when our overriding motivation is to validate negative beliefs, we’ll find it very difficult to do things that support the opposite. Instead of responding to situations that don’t reflect who we are, how we want to feel, or where we’re headed by being more boundaried and so seeing the issues for what they are and shutting down our participation, we hold out on being boundaried because we want to shake things down. We want to see how things play out.
When we acknowledge the secret and not so secret tests that we set for people, we start to connect with how we truly feel. Yes, there will be painful things to confront but expressed feelings and thoughts feel a hell of a lot different to suppressed and repressed ones that are being expressed through painful choices. When we acknowledge those hidden feelings and beliefs that we project on to others, we also uncover our motivations. We cannot truly seek to change anything or have any real command over how we feel if we don’t get honest with us about why we’re doing what we’re doing.
We can’t sit back and watch people do dodgy things that we’ve predicted. We can’t put ourselves through that massacre. We need to participate in our own lives and steer us away from anything that doesn’t lift us higher and support us coming from a place of love, care, trust and respect. We’ve got to set us up to grow, evolve, and be.
Your thoughts?
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I had this same pattern and it wasn’t until a whammy of a betrayal did I realize it was me – I was the common denominator. I took two years off from dating to figure it out. What came from my “college of Kristen” was my self-worth recovery. The healing was so incredible, I wrote a book on it to help other men and women how to rise out of doormathood and into empowerment once and for all. Much love for your good work, sister!
Which book have you written?
“I could have cut and run at the realisation that they’d failed (or passed the test depending on which way you want to look at it), but a very destructive part of me felt compelled to see things through, even though that meant causing a great deal of pain for myself. The disappointment along with the pressing on old wounds would activate this desire to win them over (mistaken for being ‘in love’), even if on another level I knew that I actually didn’t truly want this person.”
Wow, Nat, this is an amazingly accurate representation of what I feel like and what I do. So, so very true, and I did this (and continue to do it) to this day, with my last relationship with my most recent AC, who dumped me 3 days ago, a day before my grandmother’s death (he knew she was dying). I am still pining over him, and would give him another (a third) chance if he came back… just because I want to win them over and can’t face the disappointment. He had broken up with me once before, so this was the second break-up. He told me he had “chosen his (female) friends over me” and that by “taking me back” (*I* had taken him back, not the other way around), he had put his (female) friends (!!) in a difficult (!!!) position. I had initiated NC after he had broken up with me, and had removed his friends from FB, especially because they had not even contacted me to let me know they would be there for me if I needed anything (since I considered them as more than just “his” friends). Apparently they got upset about this facebook snub (!). At least one of them (his best friend, who is a female). Another of his female friends was the one who deleted me from FB, and refused to meet me after our reconciliation, because it would be “too awkward.” He claimed I had put him in a difficult position between a rock and a hard place, and that therefore he would choose his friends. Imagine that. I had not once refused to meet his friends again, despite knowing that they had insulted me by refusing to meet me. On top of that, he broke up with his gf for people who don’t give a rat’s ass about his happiness, knowing that he supposedly loved me and still trying to butt into our relationship and ruin it. Anyway, I am aware this is relationship “crack” and I should get out of this high drama destructive situation that him and his friends have dragged me into. And I am trying to do that. Keeping strict NC. It helps that he initiated NC as well (for now). He has blocked me on facebook, etc. but not sure how long his ego trip will last, if it’s truly to do me a service, or if it’s mind games that he’s playing. At any rate, I can’t imagine he’s doing it to “get over me”, since he was never “into” me, evidently. And imagine my stupidity, having gotten him a late birthday present, a 40″ TV and bluray player, for him and his son, since he had a CRT TV until then. And he had broken up with me before his bday, so I couldn’t give him a present. We reconciled after his bday, but I still felt the need to give him a bday present. 3 weeks later, having gotten the present, he dumps me. And loses no time in publicly putting on facebook his relationship status: “Single.” This is a few days after he had gotten me to put on my FB that I was in a relationship with him. Probably did it to get the ego boost, to show everyone that I had gotten back to him. And that he was the one who hadn’t wanted me after all, because I was a “crazy” person, like his friends kept telling him. Also, after we had reconciled, he wanted me to explain who each male person on my facebook was. He said he was suspicious because I had deleted a couple of men from my FB, and accused me of sleeping with the men on my FB and then deleting them from my friends list. LOL. And I stupidly went through my list and explained who each one was (most of them weren’t even in Canada, they were just old friends from different places I had lived, or classmates from school). Meanwhile, he felt that he had a right to spend one-on-one time with his female friends who had shunned me to social isolation by trying to take over his free time and refusing to see me (meaning that he couldn’t invite me to dinners at his place, because he didn’t want to upset his friends). In the end, his friends were more valuable than I was, despite their conniving ways, despite their attempts to ruin his relationship and happiness. I am so disappointed, and part of me wanted this to work, so I could be in his friends’ faces and indirectly tell them “to stuff it.” And if he comes back, I feel that this is the only reason why I would take him back. If at all. It is more difficult for me to take him back, because of feelings of guilt, because I spent my gramma’s last days, crying over an AC. So the guilt is overpowering, what would my gramma say, if she knew I had gone back to someone who didn’t even respect her, or the fact that she was dying? I am such a mess. And here I was, thinking that I had made strides and improved my self-esteem and my relationship dynamics.
Also, just to add: I do think that his friends are jerks, but I blame him for not taking a firm stand with his friends and ask them to respect his boundaries, and deal with his girlfriend or get lost.
If he doesn’t stand up for you & defend you, he’s either not that into you or he’s a coward. Either way it’s bad news. Move on. Don’t look back. Take it day at a time. Take it a step at a time or an hour at a time if you have to. Just. Move. On.
You know what makes it easier? Find a hobby you are passionate about & immerse yourself in it.
That’s what I thought/think too. I told him that, too. But what really stings is that I obviously did not mean a thing for him; all the while I was oblivious to that fact, while he was planning his exit. He broke up with me while he knew my gramma was gonna die; it was only a matter of when, not if. What kind of person does that to someone he loves, no matter the rocky patch we may have been going through, or that his friends were putting him through? Also, this is why I am having a hard time dealing with this — I am grieving and finding it hard to do so while at the same time bearing the pain of rejection. Deep down, I want him to come back but I don’t know what I would do if he does. In a way it is better if he doesn’t, because that’s gonna cause a whirlwind of emotions, of guilt, etc. Because there is no way that I’d imagine taking him back, considering how he treated me while I was already grieving because I knew my gramma was going to die in a few days.
Rejection stings. I know. & I know how unbearable the grief can be. Still, you must have courage to set one foot in front of the other & move forward. If you can’t be courageous for yourself then do it for your grandmother. Do it in memory of her. More than anything, I’m certain she would want to see you be happy. Listen to music that builds you up & makes you feel empowered. Do anything except sit idley by waiting for him to come back. Don’t go there. Don’t do it. It’s not your fault he can’t see how amazing you are.
He was probably having sex with those ‘friends’.. I can recognise the mania in your post, I’ve been there too and wasted far too much time on a man who didn’t love me. Wasted years, if I’m honest.
Basic rule: if it’s too complicated, too confusing it’s not worth it.
Yeah, well, who knows. Oddly enough, I am at times over him and that thought doesn’t bother me. At other times, it does. I don’t know what his history is with the female best friend (whether they’ve ever dated, felt physically attracted, had sex, etc.), but I know that at one point, he dated his neighbor (who proceeded to badmouth me after he had broken up with me the first time). At any rate, even if sex was not involved, for sure he wanted to carry on having emotional affairs with his female best friend and his ex (the neighbor) with my full approval and, after our reconciliation, in my absence (because it’s such a convenient script that they didn’t want to see me — wonder who it was convenient for, just his female BFF and neighbor, or him as well!). Anyhow, I did what I should not have done: I snooped on his BFF’s facebook and found out that she had recently added him on FB. They had been friends since facebook had existed… Means they had some sort of fallout after he dumped me. Not sure what the nature of the fallout was, but whatever the case, they are now back to being friends, while he still keeps me blocked on FB. That told me all that I needed to know. He dumps me for another woman (even if just a friend), takes her back as a friend (she must’ve said something horrible about him or me, or both, for him to delete her), and they go off living happily ever after in each other’s company… how lovely. Ah well. It sorta gave me the closure I needed.
@Laura; You are dating and friends with some immature people. De-friending them was also a bit — immature. You shouldn’t have made that gesture as FB is just silliness, you could have defriended once you were sure how you felt (clearly you did it out of anger – I actually think its better to defriend his friends but when we do things out of anger, then we second guess ourselves later). Sorry – that probably sounds harsh, there is a lot of drama here, and a lot of misplaced expectations.
If my friend broke up with their partner, I wouldn’t call that partner assuring them I was still their friend. Especially if I had never developed a personal relationship I wouldn’t do it – my loyalties lie with my friend first of all. And if the partner was upset with me for not getting touch etc or made big gestures like de-friending I’d be pretty annoyed. So you are expecting a little too much from these people.
Oh wait – I just went back to your post. So your grandma just died like 3 days ago? I’m so sorry. Look, when a loved one dies, we need a long time to heal. Its best not to make big decisions in that period like reconciling etc. We’re not in our best frame of mind. And it changes us, grief changes us. So just sit tight. Find your real friends, not his friends. He’s a fool. His friends sound like fools. You should contact a therapist if you’re having all these feelings of guilt.
Remember also — grief is really really hard. You sound like you’re used to drama in relationships. You might decide to replace your grief with anxiety and drama over him so you dont have to face the grief (dont ask me how i know this!!). Dont do this. Grieve properly. Dont run from it since it will resurface if you dont give it time.
Hugs and good wishes. And step away from FB, drama and fools.
Hey Suki,
Let me clarify: I unfriended his friends after he broke up with me the first time around, after a few weeks of me begging him to try to work on things between us. He was adamant about breaking up, and so, I figured that was the end of the road for us. I didn’t want to be friends with him, as I am not someone who is able to do that with ex-romantic partners. Since his friends were not really my friends, especially that they didn’t reach out to me when they knew I was severely depressed after my ex broke up with me, I figured they really were not my friends, but had been treating me “OK” because I was their friend’s gf for a while. So I decided to flush them from FB, not planning on ever seeing them again, or having any sort of interaction with them in the future. I also was very bitter about their involvement in our relationship problems, and them badmouthing me in front of my ex’s 11 year old son, over the course of 2 days, while they babysat my bf’s son so that we could talk about things and try to resolve them.
“If my friend broke up with their partner, I wouldn’t call that partner assuring them I was still their friend. Especially if I had never developed a personal relationship I wouldn’t do it – my loyalties lie with my friend first of all. And if the partner was upset with me for not getting touch etc or made big gestures like de-friending I’d be pretty annoyed. So you are expecting a little too much from these people.”
You are absolutely right — however, I had assumed, up until the unfriending, that they were my friends too. They certainly claimed to be, and pretended to care about me and love me, and to be my friends. I was naive, I suppose, and they were just pretending. This is why I had these expectations from them, though. Personally, I am a very empathetic person. When my friend cheated on his wife and then proceeded to divorce her, I contacted her and let her know that I was there if she needed to talk, even though I had seen her a total of two times in my life. I assumed that they would at least reach out to me, especially since they knew me so much better, we had hung out one-on-one (in absence of BF), and we used to get along great.
You are right about the grief thing, though. I was devastated the first week after she passed away. I couldn’t eat a thing. I couldn’t stop crying. I have stopped the crying (except every now and then when someone says something that reminds me of her and triggers a rush of emotions and guilt) and can eat OK now, but have been struggling with severe insomnia. However, I am proud of myself for sticking to strict NC. It’s day 10, and I am going strong! I can’t say, however, that I have not had the temptation to contact him. But I reminded myself of my grandmother every time I had that urge. I also told myself that he had rejected me — not once, but twice, and that no man who loved and valued me, would risk losing me by dumping me twice. Still, part of me wants him to come back. I think it’s like drugs. I am addicted to him, like a druggie.
Wow, switch up the details and you just told my story. Thank you, thank you for taking my painful mess (and I’m sure that of so many there’s) and laying it out here in such a clear and concise manner. This is it, not watered down or spiked to extreme just simply how it’s played out.
I’ve spent my whole life approaching relationships with this pattern of self loathing and looking to reinforce my negative beliefs. I’ve done it not just in my romantic but platonic friend relationships.
As I sit now alone and often feeling abandoned by a world I chose to relate to the most destructive parts of I have to constantly remind myself that not everyone is like that. I chose people that would be cruel and abusive at worst and at best more like myself and just not capable of being really present.
I’m so scared and lonely, my heart aches constantly. Knowing someone I think so beautiful and composed and obviously worthy of everything wonderful has been through this as well helps immensely. I know I have to believe I’m worthy and I know I need to let the stingy uncomfortable moments with others roll of me and embrace the tender kind ones. I see it now, I see how there are a lot of people out there that are kind, considerate and respectful of others it’s just up to me to believe we can be friends. I’m looking for the strength in myself to keep believing, moving forward and hoping for a better life with others in it. Some days it just feels like I beat it out of me and I can’t stand but if I could find a way to destroy so much I can find a way to build something lives.
Great post, Natalie. I was exactly like you were–forget the nice, normal ones–give me the high maintenance, crazy ones I can fix.
Well, phuck that.
I’d rather be single and wait for my higher power to pick out the next one, if there is a next one.
:/
Where are there 99 healthy men in a room? Please post address, thanks! 🙂
😉
to be honest, nat did write … if …
Wow- thank you, that’s me!:(
And thank you for writing still your blog (because I’m no native speaker and so it’s easier to read for me than to understand your very interesting podcast). Have a nice day!
Wow .. In a very twisted way “my” MM with his NH whom he chose over me won’t leave my head. The jealousy the anger the disappointment the sadness the loneliness continues… Why do I still hold on to this.. I know nothing will ever come from it.. I wouldn’t want anything .. His harem is so much more important to him which he proved by driving away and leaving me on the ground having a panic attack..
I pushed and pushed .. Wash rinse repeat for so many years.. But he always came back.. Was I testing did he love me.. How much did he love me .. Was I more important that his female “friends” ?!!
Well after 19 years I got the answer.. Was left like rubbish at the side of the road.
NC now for 11 weeks.. But still trying to avoid, hiding, not going out.
Should I just face up to him and deal with it?
How do I stop this need to still WIN . To prove I can get him when I know I don’t and can’t have him.
My self worth has hit rock bottom .. And for what .. A MM AC with his NH argggh
You can win by defeating your demons. You’re seeing him as your rival when in fact your true opponent is you. This is an internal battle. Do right by you.
The Wild One – these four sentences sum up the philosophy of this entire blog. Thank you.
It was precisely what I needed to read today too. My exEUM is heavily involved in a local scene and we do similar things in that scene. And it’s a small scene so, although I don’t go seeking information about him or what he’s up to, this information can wander into my field of vision from time to time.
Out of the blue, today, I started to feel like I was competing with him – which is not my style at all. I know consciously that, once the comparison starts, it becomes easier to depend on it ruling in your favor in order to reassure you that you’re OK. It means I must take my focus off this other person not doing right by me and hoping he will “pay the price” for his behavior… but it is simply a distraction from my own approval, a way to take my focus off the work of forging my own satisfaction that I am doing well on my own terms… thank you for this reminder.
🙂 Sending you vibes of happiness & serenity wherever you may be Michelle.
Thanks. After posting that, I got off the computer and dove into some artwork on a project having to do with the scene we’re both part of and ended the day feeling really good about what I accomplished. I think part of it is *trusting* myself that, if I get started on the stuff I can do, the stuff that I control, the stuff that ultimately pays off for me (vs focusing on others/him), I will feel better and more grounded. I have to trust that I know what’s best for me and there’s something about the pride I feel from creating and making that fills me with satisfaction – it reminds me there is no comparison. It reminds me of my power, my uniqueness – that I am solid in who I am and what I am about and *this* is why I can create great things. It has nothing to do with him – it’s not even a reaction to him. It is simply my own work on my terms and for me, this is deeply healing. Thank you for your encouragement. I’m doing well and I can fully receive your words in a good way today.
This is so accurate. When u are a “tester” then your mind also creates scenarios that are not there just to prove your point. The self fulfilling prophecy is very strong willed and unless u have the ability to be objective and understand your own baggage…. every relationship will be a testing ground.
It’s hard for others to understand!
Peanut here (formerly known as Peanut). I’ve decided to go with my real human name. It dawned on me today that I’ve mostly felt small and nonexistent. I had grown up feeling like the runt of the family, as well as all together worthless. I really need to get away from that belief system. Plus, it’s a good name; it fits me. My mother chose well.
Whenever I go about my day, I do see men who seem really warm and pleasant to be around (this I would prefer), but I end up attracting men who mistreat themselves and, so of course they have no clue how to treat a woman well. I also think I have to charm a man with my sexuality, so I try, though every man I start to get to know is sexually irresponsible (like dangerously so) and or sexually unavailable.
“…men who mistreat themselves and, so of course they have no clue how to treat a woman well.” That really struck me. This is so right on. And this is why we must treat ourselves better too – they’re not going to do more for us than we will for ourselves (although the reverse may have been true for a time). Good words today – thank you.
Michelle,
No probs. I have a guy friend who struggles with recklessness who I decided to spend some one on one time with. Things escalated to a reckless direction quickly. I went home as soon as I was able, but I knew his behavior and expectations had nothing to do with me. It’s how he chooses to live his life. I don’t judge, but it’s not for me.
I looked up the word “Jennifer” and one of the meanings was “bright, fair, blessed, holy.” An awesome name for a new belief system! I liked “Peanut” but it’s clear you have outgrown that…
Wiser,
Heh heh hey now! That’s certainly nice to hear. Love it. I also love that my mother allowed my father no part in naming me. Ha!
I like this name change Jennifer! I also like that you have such a clear insight into these guys – the way we treat ourselves is often how we treat others. And that a lot of these guys are lying to themselves so by definition they will lie to you.
And you have a very good insight into the way you are dealing with your sexuality – I dont know you but you seem to have figured out some important things about how you interact with people. I think this type of thinking helps a lot – you might not feel you are attracting the right person yet, but first you need to clean up head space by not attracting the wrong person. And you’ve taken those guys off their pedestal. Those are very important steps – it makes other people real to us, with real feelings and thoughts and ability to b.s. – just like us! we are also real with real feelings and thoughts and we can b.s. ourselves.
Really thought-provoking read. I used to be perpetually on some rollercoaster with some emotionally unavailable man, but now that I am in a great relationship and the honeymoon phase is wearing away I find this still so relevant. Old habits die hard, and I can see myself starting to test him, looking for signs that the happiness was temporary and it’s all going to fall apart. It’s a strange feeling, given that I always used to wonder why people with fantastic partners waste time waiting for the penny to drop. I don’t want to be that person any more.
Stephanie – I know what you mean. I think, at its core, when we recognize our own participation in letting unhealthy people/dynamics into our worlds, it becomes easier to understand that failure is not inevitable – we can trust ourselves to know what’s right for us and let others exit, if that’s what they must do. I think part of my healing has been to see the good in people again – and know it won’t be to my detriment (I don’t need to guard vigilantly against them ‘taking advantage’) because I can stay grounded in who I am and secure in the knowledge my boundaries are intact, they work for me – and if it means people exit, so be it.
Yes, so true that trusting yourself is a big component. Coz when you are still forgiving yourself for the mistakes of the past and you’re not quite there yet, back of your mind you’re thinking ok, but how do I know i’ve made the right decision here? Thanks for highlighting an area I need to focus on again!
I had an interesting experience last weekend. It was a tough week at work and I just wanted to chill, go to the gym, and hang out with the dog. A man I have been seeing casually asked me to get together and I told him the truth, that I wanted down time and would not be great company. The thing is I felt guilty, which in turn made me mad. Why should I feel guilty? A friend suggested if I was really all that into him I would have carved out a bit of time and she might be right. But I just do not want to make a relationship with a man the center of my life either. I have done that and I got resentful and needy. I guess I felt guilty for making me the center of my life for the weekend, guess I have way more self work to do, still.
@Paula, I don’t think what your friend said is true. I have been ‘really into’ certain men and still been so exhausted that I felt like the last thing I wanted to do was put on makeup, get dressed up, curl my hair, and be ‘on’ with some guy I’m trying to impress. I think it’s easier once you’ve entered into the middle portion of the relationship to be like ‘Hey, I’m beat, do you want to come over and order in some food and hang with my dog?’ But it’s hard to do that if you’re only seeing someone casually or have just started seeing them. I would say if you find yourself repeatedly over the course of weeks preferring the company of your dog over him that you’re probably not that into him, but taking some time for yourself doesn’t necessarily mean that this early – which is why when I’ve first started dating someone and he says something similar, I try to be understanding. And definitely don’t feel guilty. It just means you value you and know what you need right now. Say something like ‘I’m super sorry, but I’m exhausted and really want to be able to give you my full attention when I see you – can we do something Wednesday?’ or whatever. There’s a difference between that and just blowing a guy off.
@paula; I agree with Diane. Being tired is a totally legit reason to stay home. You dont owe anyone your time esp when exhausted. If you want to see him, just text and say hey I’m all recovered lets do something toward the end of the week or whatever.
Dont second guess your need for rejuvenation. And if this guy makes you guilty for it – theres your answer then, he’s a fool. You did the totally right thing. If you’re taking your staying home as a sign you dont like him — I mean you should be able to tell whether you like him without inferring from your actions like that.
I would also say; this fear of making someone the center of your life .. as long as that is not just a kind of hidden message of you being EU its fine. What I mean is – I think in committed relationships that other person is the center of your life. That doesnt mean that you can’t take time for yourself or that you dont put yourself first. But — I mean they’re going to be important to you. You will start organizing life around them and thats not bad – it doesnt have to feel like its eating you up and stealing your space. [I might be reading that wrong but it sounded a bit like a rationalization for something else].
You’re taking it way too seriously. Enjoy it – guy wants to ask you out and you also got to spend the whole weekend chilling out by yourself. What a great life!
Maybe I do this — I keep coming back to this post because I see something of my avoidance tactics here. It seems easier sometimes to just assume something must be wrong with anyone who’s interested in me — because that’s usually the case! Guilty until proven innocent. I am plagued with certain recurring themes in unwanted attention, so I screen for them when I first meet someone. Often it’s that the attention isn’t even genuine.
The difference maybe is that I make an effort to remain detached enough to just shrug and step off when the other shoe drops. It’s part of the vetting, screening, letting people unfold that one has to do. “What’s the catch this time?” Every once in a rare while, there isn’t a catch, but that hasn’t happened in a year or ten.
I’d love to know Natalie’s opinion on the Lamar Odom situation if she has it and the fact that his soon-to-be-ex, Khloe Kardashian, is by his bedside and has been since he overdosed in a brothel. I don’t know if it’s being followed closely on the other side of the pond, but over here, the general media sentiment is’Will she take him back?’ Yes, a man who was last found planted face down in a brothel after screwing 2 hookers for 72 straight and doing every drug known to mankind. This after years of the same behavior. The public perception seems to be ‘Aww, wouldn’t it be sweet if they got back together?!’ And she is being lauded for ‘sticking by him’ and sleeping at his hospital bedside – and certainly would have been villainized if she had taken the opportunity, when the hospital called, to say ‘Sorry, Lamar and I are done and although I am still his legal wife due to bureaucracy, I am not interested in causing myself further emotional damage by rushing to his side and re-entering his life’ OMG can you imagine if that got out?!
Bottom line, women are encouraged and brainwashed by society to do whatever is necessary to keep a relationship together even if it means her own destruction. And yet when a woman puts herself in danger by staying in a relationship that eventually does prove dangerous, resulting in her own death or injury, everyone goes, ‘Well, why didn’t she just leave him?’
Bottom line: Sacrifice yourself for the man, ladies, no matter what the circumstance. And we all sit around wondering how we got these ideas that led us to involve ourselves with EUMs and persistently bang our collective heads against the wall for months, years, or decades even though ‘all the signs were there.’
@Diane,
Your post is so spot on. Its centuries old brainwashing, so we women don’t even realize how we are brainwashed against our own sanity and well being. Its so subtle, one needs to really apply one’s mind to detect it.
Especially sad we women have the same idiotic expectations of other women. But not for me anymore. Yesterday had a fallout with a friend who was ready to be the OW just for the sake of having a man to complete her, even if an MM. BS
@Wiser2, and now that they have called off the divorce, the internet is full of young women saying things like ‘I’m so glad they are giving the relationship another chance!’ These are the same young women who will need BR when they’ve hit middle-aged and realize their men haven’t spontaneously combusted from brothel-using drug addicts into prince charmings.
@Diane,
Good point. The lies our younger self so easily believes, the fantasy we weave, if only we had BR education while in college. Only a fortunate few know about BR, I am surprised there around only 38,000 likes of FB, we need to spread the BR word, I have shared with my network, numbers bring power, as more people are aware, and there is lesser tolerance in society for this BS
I caught feelings for a friend with benefits. I told him I had feelings for him but what I said was I know you don’t have any for me, what do we do now. He said if you want to stop I understand so I said yes because he didn’t say either way if he did or didn’t have feelings for me. So I assumed he didn’t. A few weeks later we spoke and I asked him about something he did and again I said I know you don’t have feelings for me… And again he didn’t say either way he just answered the question. Is that the same as “testing” him? I assumed if I revealed my feelings he would say no so I just ended it. But now since I didn’t get an answer either way I don’t know how to accept it because if I ask him now after the other times of bringing it up, I assume he’ll still say no
Mar, I’m sorry this is happening. He has answered your question by not answering. Silence is a form of communication. My guess is he either didn’t want to hurt you by coming right out and saying it or he didn’t want to hurt his chances of the FWB starting back up by saying it. Either way, you have your answer. If he had feelings for you he wouldn’t leave you twisting in the wind like that. You deserve a man that truly cares for you and wants to be with you and is willing and able to express it. Take good care of you.
I have been struggling with my self worth for a long time now too. I finally found a great guy, sweet, and genuine, wanted to give me everything I thought I ever wanted, definitely someone worth while but I went into self destruct mode, instead of letting my guard down and being vulnerable. I pushed him away by continuing to see other people behind his back. He was devastated when he found out. He will not forgive me. Broke up two weeks ago and he is still messaging me but it is mostly angry and hurtful comments. I have asked for his forgiveness but he will not give it to me. I put him in this bad place that he says he will never get back out of. I know I messed up and I want to find self worth. Sucks that I did this. Anyone have any helpful advice?
It’s a Saturday afternoon and knowing I’ve been invited out this evening but can’t face it, ( I’m half way through a bottle of red wine and a very large bar of chocolate instead!!) I’ve decided I need to become part of the BR community because I need your help and I’m choosing my evening to post on here instead.
I’ve been reading BR on and off for a couple of years but more so since my break up with the EUMM in March this year. By god I wish I’d studied this website during the 4 years we were together, then maybe we wouldn’t have lasted as long as we did. Anyway, since breaking up with the MM I’ve been in a sort of emotional/barely physical relationship with a co-worker who professed he was in love with me even before I broke up with the longer term MM and he was a shoulder to cry on, boosted my self-esteem while my world came crashing down over the MM. However the co-worker is also married, he has his reasons for why he can’t leave his wife yet so I’ve called time on it saying to him ‘I just can’t do this to myself anymore’. I’m 43 years old and could write a book on my childhood and the effect it has had on my succession of relationshits. So I’m alone again and faced with a whole lot of introspection, still missing the MM like crazy and fighting the urge to get validation from either of them ……SOMEONE!!
After failing NC repeatedly since March with the MM I know I have to stick to it and I know if I don’t sort myself out now…… I’m screwed! Reading your stories I thought I was the only one to come across a MM who’s acts of betrayal are too unfathomable to comprehend so I know I’m not alone.
This is my intro to this community 🙁
Hi,
I have been reading baggage reclaim for quite a while now too. If I had come across this website earlier, I would have had more knowledge but I think my actions would have remained the same. I have suffered from low self esteem and no self worth for a long time too. I started seeing a psychologist as well as a life coach after my last breakup, which was one month ago. I am still having a hard time but it’s getting better. I also started reading Healing the Child Within by Charles L Whitfield. I read tons of articles and look through websites a lot. I journal almost every single day. I was journaling pages and pages at a time each day in the beginning but now I am not really needing to as much. I hope we can continue to correspond, we are about the same age; I am 45. If you haven’t tried journaling, please try it! I also use positive affirmations…
Hi Karen, your comments were helpful, thank you. Unfortunately I can’t afford any more therapy (I’ve been seeing therapists on and off for most of my life I think!) and the free counselling I get through work isn’t conducive to my working hours. I did try journaling, along with reading and re-reading BR, books on abandonment and co-dependency etc a couple of months after the break up but it got to the stage where I was over whelmed with it all. I was trying so hard to ‘move on’ and not be the victim and even come out of it better than him, it was having the reverse effect and making me feel worthless and despondent. I’m going through a really difficult time right now because the MM left me with debts I’m struggling to pay and I was recently told my job is at risk of redundancy. So I’ve stopped lying awake being anxious over why I have such terrible luck with relationships that never last but instead I’m worrying over losing my job and struggling to make ends meet. Gosh this is probably one of the most depressing posts you’ll ever read!! Maybe it’ll make others feel better about their situation – who knows
Nicki,
Hope you enjoyed the chocolate, but I suggest staying away from alcohol especially when you are alone and making yourself strong for your own good. Especially as you mention to have contacted EUMM several times. Its great you are staying in, you need introspection (as you are doing) to understand yourself and your behavior patterns, why are you attracted to EUMM? why go on a path which will lead to heartbreak?
As Karen suggests below journaling can help you, it has helped me. Reread old articles on this blog, post & share experience on how you are doing, we are here to help each other.
Thanks Wiser2
You ask why I’m attracted to EUMM? That’s a good question and looking back it would seem all my relationships had either a wife, recent ex or SO in the background. I would be chosen initially but it wouldn’t last. I think this stems from the non-existent relationship I have with my father and how he treated my mother when they were married. He had affairs, she always took him back though and they eventually divorced. He married again and had a new family but me and my brother weren’t ‘important’ in his eyes and as a result we’ve been estranged for over ten years now. So I guess the MM are because I want to be important enough to be the chosen one. The difference with this most recent relationship though was I was deceived in to thinking he wasn’t married and only found out the truth after we broke up so I was totally blindsided. Sometimes I think I’ll never recover from what he put me through and I realise I’m still in love with the ‘best bits’ of what we shared and the fantasy of what I thought our future looked like (future faking). The hard thing is we were together for nearly 4 years, we had a house together, lived together, several holidays every year, spent Christmas together, I met his parents…… so it didn’t feel like an affair but it was all a lie. He even faked his divorce documents ! How long does it take to recover from something like that? My life is a mess
Hi Nikki I hope you are going well. It sounds really hard – to be completely tricked is a real shock, it happened to me too with my ex – I mean I knew he was up to something but when two men from his workplace turned up at my door saying he had been having an affair with one of their wives I was so much in shock I had to sit down- I actually thought they had arrived to tell me he had a workplace accident or something !!!! But I just felt relief after we separated the relief of not having to worry what he was up to & what lies he was telling – it felt good. Are there positives to your current situation? I’m sure life is easier for u know that u can live some values. All the best for you