If you imagine (actually, many of you don’t even need to do this as you’re living it) that you’re in a relationship/dating a man that appears to be dragging his feet. It could be that you’ve been together for for a few months, a year, or even a few years but you know that he’s ‘trying to figure things out’. For some he’s trying to figure out if he’s even that interested. For others, he’s trying to figure out if he wants to be exclusive. For others, he’s saying that he likes/loves you, but he’s contradicting that with his actions and stalling on committing.
Maybe he’s got a wife he needs to make the move to finalise a divorce with.
Maybe he keeps doing the whole ‘That One Time in Bandcamp’ thing where he keeps bringing up that time when he got hurt or the same old story about some woman that disappointed him.
Maybe he’s straight up saying he’s not sure.
Maybe he says he waiting to feel ready.
Whatever it is that he’s saying, there is a difference between you and him.
You’ve made a decision about him and decided to stick around in spite of the fact that he hasn’t got both feet in the relationship.
In fact, you’re waiting for him to make a decision about you, when you’ve already made a decision about him! Does that even make sense?
How horrible is it to be around someone who isn’t sure that they want to be with you when you have your heart and mind so set on him?
It’s a blow to your self-esteem and all the patience and compassion in the world can’t disguise the gnawing sensation of feeling vaguely humiliated and definitely rejected.
The thing is, it’s not that hard for someone to decide if they want to be with you and if they want to be in the relationship – we’ve just convinced ourselves that it is because it makes it more palatable as if it’s a prerequisite for love that you’ve got to cut your teeth being in pain.
Deep down, we know when someone actually wants to be around us and deep down, we also know when we truly feel good, and when someone truly loves and cares about us.
When a man ends the relationship with you and you cling to the relationship trying to win him back or obsessing about why he’s gone and why you love him so, this is a signal that something is very wrong because he has opted out and decided that you and whatever you both have is not worth trying for. This is a sign that come hell or high water, you need to drop the illusion and get real because you want someone that no longer wants you.
This is the same as when you’re with someone who can’t bring themselves to put both of their feet in the relationship and instead keeps a foot out, or just a toe in and makes it clear either through words or his actions that he is not on board. Instead of fighting for his attention, trying to prove yourself, trying to win, the fact that he is himming and hawing about you should be a serious indicator that something is wrong and that you need to step back, get real, and be careful of projecting what you think, feel, and believe on to him because clearly, you’re not on the same page.
And remember – when this continues over an extended period of time, it isn’t that he hasn’t made a decision; it’s that he’s using his indecision to mask the fact that he has made a decision, he just doesn’t want to clue you in on it. After all, better to hedge your bets than to do the decent thing…
Your thoughts?
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Seems quite clear, and the reality is that he HAS made a decision, as you concluded.
Reminds me of the whole Prince William and Kate Middelton thing – using the excuse that he is undergoing army training and has to wait is just an excuse.
And it is humilating. Clearly he doesn’t want to be with her as much as she wants to be with him, and she is gambling on hope and “later” which may never come.
Loving Annie’s last blog post..Your Cell Phone Is Ringing
Oh this is a timely post. I always felt like I was waiting for something to happen. Well no more of that.
I think many of us have done this; waited and waited and waited.
I think the worst are the ones who will spend years with you but they just won’t take the relationship further. I know I heard the I’m not ready yet for 2 years. It took me awhile to realize it really was just a stall tactic. If you are with someone for a long period of time, another year or two isn’t going to make any difference in things.
Now if you are 18 years old, that is a different story but for people who are done with school and have a steady job etc., it is just an excuse.
I guess the question is, what do you do if you realize he has just been making excuses not to commit or whatever?
Oh my GOD, this article about me:-( Thank you NML!!!
Especially : “How horrible is it to be around someone who isn’t sure that they want to be with you when you have your heart and mind so set on him?”
I am trying to rid of my MR Unavailable (after one year of appearing and disappearing acts), and I dont know HOW!!! Yes, I am sitting and waiting and it is so painful, but I am so hopeless and I cant help myself!!! My head is saying that it’s over, but my heart cant let it go…
THIS IS SO TRUE! In hindsight it’s so easy to see clearly. It is a painful and pathetic feeling when you delude yourself into thinking that “he just needs some time” and then he’ll commit.
Alika, It is very hard for your heart to let go…I still have trouble with it even though I am no longer in the relationship, It takes time, but my self esteem is better and knowing that I stood up for myself and let him know that I am not waiting for him, am finished with him. Even if my heart has to catch up. At least the drama of him and the relationship is gone. What hurts my heart and probably yours, Alika, is giving up the dream or what you thought was the dream (his potential) of the perfect love, the great relationship, soulmate, you long for…but I am realizing, it wasn’t him, was never him and will never be him. It was wishful and hopeful thinking with him.
I know now, that the great love I am longing for, when I find it…I KNOW I won’t have to WAIT for him to decide anything, he will know and I will know.
I want a man that loves me enough to swim across shark infested waters just to bring me a lemonade!!! I won’t settle for less anymore.
HUGS TO ALL XXXXXXXXXOOOOOO
Jean,
You get out! Why waste any more precious time!
Hi Gaynor, I mean when you are in a relationship, how long do you wait for a proposal? 1 year, 2 years? Do you think this is something you should tell someone you are dating up front?
Say you are dating someone for 3 months or whatever, do you say “I don’t do endless dating relationships. If things aren’t moving forward by 2 years, I’m gone.”
Jean, you need to get out unless you want to waste more time.
Finally, you are right, hindsight is 20/20 and I can see now very clearly what I didn’t “see” in the past.
Alika, cut Contact with him or you will waste another year with him.
I know it all sounds sooo easy to say, been there done that, but you have to believe it will get better – but you have to remove yourself from the situation first.
Exactly… in the beginning your the greatest thing since sliced bread where you are sitting back relaxing until they start to back away and all of a sudden things are going too fast. I have learned and grown so much thank god this past year. Thank goodness to my own impatience if a man can not make a decision about me; I get agiated and can’t take much more of him at that point — but at that point I feel like I had invested too much, and I have! I was so proud of myself calling this guy I was dating on the phone and said “I don’t know what you are doing and I don’t have time to figure it out but I do not want to continue seeing you any longer”… of course he tried to make me secondguess myself after his assclown actions, and he did everything that you mentioned on this site like contact me when I was moving on etc and I wondered why and now everything is so clear, not about him just in general.
I was reading this book and it gave a good tip. Just like when a man or woman goes for a job and needs to prove their worthy of benefits usually a 90 day period—they say woman should wait until at least that so you know he is consistent and a good man for you… thought it was a cute idea.
Wow Jean, You’re asking the wrong girl. I do think that three-months is a bit early to be discussing the marriage issue but I can say from my last relationship there were clear indicators that this guy would never settle down again. I believe it is so important to hear what they say, and more importantly watch their actions this is a good indicator where the relationship may lead.
What do the other ladies advise?
uhm I reckon there’s a difference between a) not committing to be in a relationship with you and b) being in a committed relationship with you and not making a marriage proposal. We are mixing two different issues.
I’ve learned the hard way to judge people and guys in particular by their actions and not by their words and I’d rather be with a guy who treats me well in a loving and respectful manner than being with someone who talks big talk and then pulls disappearing acts.
A guy who doesn’t do marriage talk doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not committed.
If marriage is important for you then yes you should look for like minded people but I believe there are other fundamental things.
An engagement ring means nothing for me if there’s no respect and love and I believe respect and love can exist without an engagement ring.
OH MY GOSH. It is hard to read stuff like this and realize and face the truth of how much I hung on even though his actions didn’t match his words! He was showing me his decision or indecision by talking up a storm about love and greatness and the future, but doing nothing! And I chose to listen to the words for a couple years instead of seeing that he had no intention of being with me in any real way. Geez, it is embarrassing. I love this article. Another wake-up-call and reminder. This site just keeps spurring me on to keep working on myself, and not keep thinking “if only I had done___________….then maybe he would’ve done________…. etc…”
I had a conversation with my xEUM the other day (its been 3 months since I broke it off with him) and I asked: If you didnt want to be with me…why didnt you just say so instead of stringing me along– and he said: Because I didnt want to hurt you”. Im not sure that really makes sense. While I understand that some men are scared I have a feeling this is just an excuse. I responded to him by telling him that by not telling me he had hurt me…because although I was already emotionally invested— the piece of information of Him not being into me anymore etc… was pivitol in me deciding whether to stay or to go. Instead he continued to call and tell me he loved me for what??? Is that really what you do when you DONT want to hurt someone??? It sounds like to me he is trying to hide the fact that he was indeed stringing me along but without having to really say it– but instead covering it up by saying: I didnt want to hurt you. We were together for almost two years. It was a crazy rollercoaster ride of never really knowing for sure what he felt, where we stood etc… because his words didnt really match his actions. Tell me guys– do you really think that a man in his 30’s didnt want to hurt me so instead of letting me go—- he just held on until I couldnt take it anymore and I had to end it? I can’t say i didn’t feel rejected and hurt when he told me that. And not only that but he even said… you know …. I was thinking of something serious with you until you did this….. YOU KNOW WHAT……. like NML Says in this post is it really that hard to make a decision of whether or not you want to be with someone? I knew I wanted him (uhm… eventhough he was still living with the mother of his kids!!!) and despite me being patient and and understanding and supportive etc…. he still blew hot and cold? I guess i was taken for a joy ride…. and that part hurts because I really loved him… 🙁
And remember – when this continues over an extended period of time, it isn’t that he hasn’t made a decision; it’s that he’s using his indecision to mask the fact that he has made a decision, he just doesn’t want to clue you in on it. After all, better to hedge your bets than to do the decent thing…
This is the part that hit me like a ton of bricks. I hung onto a man for three years where he was hemming and hawwing and going back and forth. It was such a Katy Perry Song, “Hot and Cold”. We convience ourselves that these men are good guys, but the good ones don’t string you along for any reason. They’re honest and well let you know that the relationship is not working for them. My ex tried to used all of these excuses and more, telling me at the end that he was thinking about proposing but it was because I was pushing that he didn’t want. I actually stopped him right there in the middle of the conversation and told him that that was the biggest lie of all and that it wouldn’t have made a difference what I did or if I was Cindy Crawford he had not intention of committing to me. He got completely silent. I told him that I’d finally woken up to the fact that his indecision was his decision and that he’d been content to use me for the last three years for his own sake. I told him the worst part about the entire situation was that I allowed him to. He then asked me, “Was I really that shitty to you?” with this stricken look on his face. I told him that yes he was and then some and that doesn’t get to sit there and act like he was Mr. Perfect when he wasn’t. It was a pretty profound conversation and was the most depth that he’d shown to me in those entire 3 years. I moved out and am 100% better thanks to this site. It’s not a walk in the park but every day I get stronger and gain more self-esteem and I know that eventually I will meet someone when I’m in a better place emotionally too.
Karen,
What happened? I thought you had gone NC with this guy??
I think he was feeding you a line of bull so that he would not look like the A$$hole he truly is. This guy knew that he was doing the big string along, if he didn’t want to hurt you he would have let you go. Don’t believe a word of this silliness, it was all for his benefit.
Nikki
I think hit in on the nail for me when you said “He doesnt get to sit there and act like he was Mr Perfect when he wasnt”. I think ive been giving my xEUM too much credit and taking most of the blame to the point where I really question myself whether ending it was the best thing for me. I guess since I miss him and most likely because I keep thinking that if only I had done something different and if i could go back and fix it— he would appreciate me and love me. All this with a man who lied, cheated and makes me feel that if only “I” had been different— things would have worked out. That if only I wouldnt have pressured so much, asked too many questions, confronted him about other #’s etc..etc… he had been really considering something more long term with me. I know it sounds ridiculous for me to believe this but i guess sometimes I manage to allow him to actually make ME and me alone feel is to blame for things not working out. I guess because I so much wanted them to, and I still care for him. I just keep asking myself… why not me? Why did he not love me? What did i do wrong? Im hoping I will one day stop blaming myself and stop asking these questions.
I love this site and thank God I found it!!! I have never commented on a site like this before, but these posts hit home. I’ve never told my friends or family about the lie I’ve been living. I dealt with a man for 14 years! I watched him get married and have children with another woman. I held on thinking one day we would be together. I believed in what we had and what was said. I broke things off one week ago today. My emotions are all over the place because he does not know it’s over! I am scared about life without him, but MUST move on. I started with this guy when I was 22 years old…now I am 37. Each year I waited and waited. In the coming months I will graduate from college and buy my first home. I chose now to leave just so that I can start fresh on my own. What has been said on this site is TRUE…the behavior and patterns of the man I was into fits every category stated here.
Jean
You get out when you’re ready to and not a minute sooner. Nobody on this forum and can tell you when that should be. It’s personal preference. Chances are, if you’re writing on this forum about it, you are already unhappy with the situaton.
FYI – Ultimatums never work so if you’re not prepared to leave, don’t force the issue.
Mike,
I’m curious, did you say the same to your sister? After reading about the pain she endured in her relationship, it seems as if it was still very difficult for her to remove herself from the situation.
This is a great post and soooo true. When I was 17 years old I was in band and had a huge crush on my band mate. We sat together in class and became fast friends. Many folks thought we were dating. Throughout the school year we became fast friends and I developed the illusion that we might even become a couple. Well that was my first experience with an EUM (Yes the learn early) A few months before the prom he asked me if I had a date I said no, do you? He said no, and indicated that he and I could go together, then he said he was just joking around, but throughout the ensuing months he kept asking about whether I had a date. I thought about asking him and I spoke to my grandmother about it and she said “kissie” (that was her nickname for me) “if a man really likes you he’ll ask you out.” I never asked him out and we ended upgoing to the prom with other people. In fact he ignored me throughout the entire prom night.
But what my grandmother said came back to me years later…after several bad “realtionships” with EUMs. If a man really wants you, he’ll make his intentions CLEARLY known.
He WILL make the time to be with you. He WILL call. He WILL spend time with you. He WILL take you out and show you off to his friends. He WILL respect you and treat you well. If he does not like or does not want to be with you he WON’T do these things and you hanging around listening to his BS, hoping he will eventually see how wonderful you are and take you for a ride in his car and spend some time with when you’re not in a horizontal position, is an illusion. Actions always speak louder than words. We think we love these men. We don’t. We love the fantasy that is in our minds.
We love the idea of being in love and any man will do. We love the drama, the chase the hope that we can MAKE him love us. If you are with a man and he says he loves you but has married another woman, HE DOES NOT LOVE YOU and if you stay with a man who continuously disappoints you, strings you along, hides you away, hurts your feelings, is inconsiderate, disapppears for days and weeks at a time, lies to you, beats you, and makes you feel like sh*t then, my dear, you don’t love yourself.
As the song says, “when a man loves a woman, he can’t keep his mind on nothin’ else.” Women need to know that a man will quickly secure a relationship with a woman when he truly wants her — nothing will hold him back. In other words, he makes his intentions crystal clear.
Kissie,
You just “killed” me with your comment as it is so true!!!
Yes, I probably don’t love myself at all if I keep allowing this Assclown to threat me like this…
AS NML said in this article: “Deep down, we know when someone actually wants to be around us and deep down, we also know when we truly feel good, and when someone truly loves and cares about us” …not in my case, unfortunately:-(
Finallyseenthelight and Astelle, thank you ladies for your wise advices as usual…
Haha! Kissie I love your post as well!! Good one!!! 🙂
Kissie,
Well said!!!
It is absolutely horrible to love and care for someone who doesn’t love you back. It is demoralizing to wake up and face the cold hard facts: for two years, you were just a distraction for him on his way to and from the woman he claimed he was not emotionally, physically, or intellectually attached to. You loved unconditionally, and he didn’t love at all. What a waste of your valuable life.
Yes, Anne it is just that, but in the state of mine that we were in we didn’t really realize that at the time. We just thought all we had to do was try harder, love harder, in essence be someone else entirely. The time we spent on them should have been turned inward focusing on ourselves and loving ourselves first.
Stephen is totally right. When a man wants to be with a woman there is nothing or anything that keep him from you in any way. He’ll make it happen. It’s as NML said, their inactions masks the fact that they have no intention of committing at all.
NML, what does this mean what you said in your post:
After all, better to hedge your bets than to do the decent thing…
I understand English as I read it, but I can’t get the meaning out of this sentence, and what ever this means why is it “better’?
I know what doing the decent thing means, I just can’t put this sentence together. I hope I am not the only “dumb” foreigner. 🙂
Well said – and great posts. I have a question in light of what Stephen and the other posts were saying.
I was spending time with a guy who did make a huge effort to spend time with me (my schedule was more difficult to work around) and we would see each other at least once a week and email almost daily (yes, I know what NML says about emails – that has sunk in!). We did talk on the phone as well.
The one thing we didn’t do was take it any further than spending time together, even when he was at my place a couple of times. (Yes, I should have dealt with that earlier than later). And then he was really surprised after a couple of months when I asked him where he stood – i.e. I’m wanting to make this into an actual relationship and either you are in or out. I haven’t contacted him in months and don’t plan to (the posts and this site really help with that). I’m just a little stuck on trying to understand why someone would spend so much time with someone else and then not have any further intention of pursuing more – it sounds quite different from many of the other stories I hear in relation to EUMs.
Any reactions would be greatly appreciated.
Astelle,
Honey, you’re not a dumb foreigner. Here’s the defonition:
Hedge your bets
Meaning
To avoid committing oneself; to leave a means of retreat open.
Gaynor, Thanks and I love you, but what does “to leave a means of retreat open” . UGH… 🙂
Rachel, I have no answer to your situation either and I hope that somebody will have an answer? NML? Brad? Mike? Stephen?
NML, as always, a great deal to think about in your post. I think it is partly the child in us that waits until someone else makes the decision – any decision. We wait and hope that these men will “choose” us. It is not a fault of ours or anything to be ashamed of. I’m learning more and more as I get older and one of the most comforting things I am learning is that, it’s gonna be OK. If we can trust in ourselves (not just some dude) we will be okay. We only have one life and it’s so fragile. But it’s ours.
Astelle,
AHHHHH. I did the whole copy and paste thing. I believe it means to leave your options open in case something better comes along.
My x eum did break it off with me pretty quickly after he ran very hot and finally “got” me. He said we werent a match The thing was I talked him into giving it more time.,he agreed. We spent another month or so together then he broke it off saying he was too overwhelmed with work and financial problems to give me his all. He said it had nothing to do with me and he continued to say that through out the entire on and off thing.He then wanted to get back with me and strung me along on crumbs (which I treated as loafs) for a few more months until I finally ended it 2 weeks ago. Heres my question …did he string me along or was I doing it to myself? He also told me he Loved me one night which I suspect was to get sex. What do you all think?
Astelle,
I reread it.
It means if there is no commitment you can can get out easily.
Friends,
I am posting on this site again after quite some time.Actually since December I have been following the NC rule earnestly.Belive me,I was more peaceful and happy when I was following the same.Of course I did think about my EUM on and off,but I was disgusted with him.But I made the mistale of my life when last week I contacted him again.After that things have been the same as before.I find myself behaving in the same way that I used to before.Waiting for his calls,his insensitive texts..And he is still the same.I wonder why this pattern keeps emerging.I thought that after 2 months of NC,I had gotten over this amn..but no.I still harbour feelings for him…In fact now I am ashamed of myself.I cannot believe that I have ended up giving him the upper hand again in this relationship by actually contacting him..What do I do…
Brooke,
it takes what it takes. Do not beat yourself up.It took me 3 tries to finally leave it alone for good. I had to keep checking it out. I always made sure a part of me was treating it like an experiment. ( which it was!) I found that gave me some sense of control. Then when I had finally had enough and was done for myself, not a “should”, I ended it.I did it respectfully ( no drama.) There is a quote that helps me STAY away, it goes…….
“Success lies in being able to retreat at the right moment and in the right manner. The success is made possible by the fact that the retreat is not the forced flight of a weak person but the voluntary withdrawal of a strong one”
You can end it anytime you want. You can change your mind, and get out.
Good Luck!
Brooke,
I did the same thing…. it took me several tries, before I got it through my thick skull that the kind of relationship I want to have was never going to come from this man. And it hurt, but I finally, finally have stayed away to point where I got over the desire to just give it one more try. Hang in there, and try again. About a month ago, I saw the guy because he showed up somewhere I was, and I sent him a little note afterwards (after 2 months of NC) and right away, he was back into the games and the same old thing, and I cut it off immediately for good. I think, eventually, if you keep trying the NC, it will sink in that you need to just let go for (forever), but GETTING THERE ISN’T ALWAYS THE EASIEST. Keep reading the posts and the comments. So many great insighful women here!
Good luck,
Lisa
I’m a bit confused by the statement, “You’re waiting for him to make a decision about you, when you’ve already made a decision about him.” I read this in the sense that yes, I am waiting, because I want to be with him – so as illogical as I am being about wanting to be with someone who is a complete and total jerk to me – it does make sense to wait. Can someone try to explain NML’s words more clearly?
Anne,
Oh dear, please tell us you’re not waiting on this guy? Your story is one of the most sadistic stories I have read on this site, why would you want him back after the way he treated you?
Didn’t you say he was actively online, had at least one other girlfriend, lied repeatedly, was disrespectful, and has no intention of contacting you on the STD test? This guy is a complete loser and will only cause you and all his other ladies pain and misery. As yourself, what did he ever do for you?
Hon, you need to ask yourself why you want to be involved with someone who treated you so poorly?
No, Gaynor, I am not waiting on this guy. And, no, that was not me to whom you are referring in the second paragraph.
I am going through the steps of focusing on me, so that I don’t/won’t ever subject myself to an ambiguous man or situation again.
I’m hung up on trying to understand the question as it was posed. That’s all.
This site has been a Godsend for me. I want no more Assclowns in my life. I want the one’s who are no longer around to be out of my head as well.
Anne,
I’m sorry I confused you with another poster.
Good luck!!!
Stephen B ~ I agree with you except when it comes to men who are emotionally unavailable, commitment phoebes, or already committed to someone else just to name a few.
The men you are speaking about (those who can commit) aren’t being discussed on this site because the women those guys committed to are busy having a “normal” relationship. They are not blogging here.
I guess I question if you’ve been to this site before, or if you know why many of us post here.
At the moment I’m hanging on waiting for a guy that I’m ‘just friends’ with to make a move and wondering whats going on. He’s often around and attentive then disappears or expects me to do last minute stuff. A favourite trick is asking me out then seemingly changing his mind. He takes an old flame out every few weeks and is in daily contact with his ex wife that he’s been seperated from for 18 years. In fact, he introduced to her recently.From what he says he doesn’t see why on earth he should be divorced as he ‘did nothing wrong’. He sees me three to four times a week and we have great fun – we go on ‘dates’ where he pays for everything but there is no physical contact. The bells are ringing and the red flags are flying high…and I’m waiting to see if something will develop….comments please?
gemma, I went through exactly the same thing for 3 years–waiting for him to take it to the next level, and it never happened. My advice to you would be to be totally honest with him right now and tell him you have feelings for him and want things to progress beyond friendship. I never had the courage to tell my ex-EUM I had feelings for him, and I went through a lot of pain and heartache I could have avoided had I just been honest and upfront with him at the beginning. Don’t wait it out, and don’t read more into the relationship than what might really be there. It may be that he just wants your friendship only, and then you have to decide if that’s enough for you. Good luck!
Gemma, he’s not interested, but he’s content to use you for the ego boost. Run like the devil is chasing you. I’ve been in this exact same situations tooo many times and it always ends the same way. Run.
gemma, what sticks out for me is he said: From what he says he doesn’t see why on earth he should be divorced as he ‘did nothing wrong’. Ugh..
Now, why he is in daily contact with the ex wife and why the ex wife is in daily contact with him, that is beyond me.
I agree with Nikki, you are an ego boost for him. I am not so sure that he is not interested in you, I think he is not interested in any woman. But, he is too busy to find the woman he could be interested in, he spends 3-4 days with you, takes out an old flame every few weeks and talks to the ex wife daily – he is too busy.
Drop him quick, maybe one of the male readers have an idea what his deal is, he is too weird. Please don’t wait for him, he will never make a move, after 18 years he can’t understand why he is divorced?
Maybe he is still pining over the ex wife…
How long has this been going on with him and you?
@Betterwithouthim- Yes, I’m new here. I know that NML is talking about “emotionally unavailable” men, but unless they have some sort of disorder it has to end with someone. Some men never get to that place and go on “playing” through their middle age. I think that many of them eventually mature and get to the point where they know what and who they want.
Stephen, do you think that a man in his mid 50’s after 25 years of marriage will ever get there? He had these problems all of his life.
And you are right, unless they have some kind of disorder they will get there.
I believe some of these men have a disorder…
Gemma,
Your story sounds remarkably similar (well, except for the divorced bit) – but the same was happening for me and until I finally put my feelings out on the line and asked him to do the same. Then, all of a sudden, he was apologizing because he “hadn’t meant to give me the wrong impression”. We all know the difference between friends and more – he clearly either doesn’t or is hoping to blur the lines a bit for some reason of his own. I was rereading some of the posts from last year after I posted earlier and realized that at the end of the day, we’ll really never understand their motivations. Better to figure out your own motivations (I’m asking myself why spending so many months in limbo was okay for me) and spend time with someone who can be upfront with you as to what type of relationship they want – be it friendship or more.
Astelle,
I go with the disorder!
Yeah but Astelle,
you have to ask yourself (all of us that are attracted to EUM’s) why are we attracted to these men with the disorder? If we were in the right place in our lives, we would not attract, or quickly discard as soon as we found out he can’t give us what we deserve!
I’m a bit confused by the statement, “You’re waiting for him to make a decision about you, when you’ve already made a decision about him.†I read this in the sense that yes, I am waiting, because I want to be with him – so as illogical as I am being about wanting to be with someone who is a complete and total jerk to me – it does make sense to wait. Can someone try to explain NML’s words more clearly?
Anne— what I think it means is:
You have already made a decision about him, that you want to be committed to him before he ever made a decision that he wanted to be committed to you… so why on earth should we make that decision to want to be committed and in love with someone who can’t return what we want and deserve, and has clearly shown that to us through his actions… but as spoke way too much crap with his words?
Here Here. Wishful thinking leads to misery.
Gina – It’s not a metaphor for anything else. You have decided that you want to be with him when he has either decided not to be with you or is still making up his mind about you. “You’ve made a decision about him and decided to stick around in spite of the fact that he hasn’t got both feet in the relationship.” Why do women want to be with men who are habitually undecided about them or who have made a decision (i.e they’re not committing) but who hang around playing mind games, depleting your self-esteem, and reaping the fringe benefits. If he’s undecided, why are you so decided?
Yes it seems far too many of us get hooked on people who just aren’t really there the way they should be. They have a suitcase full of excuses, hung up on an ex, not really available etc. etc. I think we have to stop counting on potential and see things for how they are right at the moment.
I don’t know if anyone has followed any Mars/Venus things but I think it really does a disservice to women. The guy is long gone or not really that interested and she is supposed to waiting around on him because he is in the cave or some such nonsense.
I know once you get in and are hooked on a particular guy, it is really hard to let go but if you aren’t being treated right or have the nagging gut feeling something isn’t right, you really have to let go.
NML I wonder if you would do some articles on this “Game” tactics men play on women. Like this place http://www.theattractionforums.com/online-game/91160-plenty-fish-close-2d-email-2.html
It just sickened my stomach to read through the posts on the calculating way they come up with scripts to say to lure women in bed.
Cheers everyone.
Thanks for your comments guys…I’ve been down the EUM route many times and now at least I’m seeing the signs earlier. I am going to back off for my own sanity. I honestly do not feel in my gut that this is right – I am just looking for confirmation that my instincts are correct which is what you have given me..I feel that we need to learn to act on our instincts which seems to be something lacking in women who repeatedly get involved with EUMs. I certainly am not going to boost his ego further by putting my feelings on the line. He is a grown man and knows exactly what he is doing..Thanks all xxx
Jean, I agree with you with regard to the Mars/Venus stuff. As I believe you are already aware, I followed it to the “T” and listened to posters on their boards and to my “coach” telling me, “Oh, he’s in uncertainty” or “Oh he’s in his cave” or this that or the other reason and the truth was, he is EU and doing all the things EUM do to manage down your expectations. If I had listened to my gut instead of the Mars/Venus stuff, I would have been much better off.
Just Wednesday, I happened to be checking out a new online site to see if it was any better than the others and lo and behold, there was ex-EUM on that site, as well. I checked out his profile and to my amusement/amazement, he lied in his profile! Hammered home to me that he doesn’t want anyone around too long because at some point, he would have to tell the truth about the particular issue and, well…. And, yes, I am seeing the games he played very clearly and feel sorry for the other, unsuspecting women out there because he is a wolf in sheeps clothing…Quiet, comes off as a bit shy…no way he could be a player…and he’s a BIG one! His harem is huge and I am only now putting that all together – didn’t see it when we were together.
I am having a particularly hard time reconciling the nice guy and this guy I’m now seeing…its like two different people. My head sees the AC and my heart is still seeing the potential.
This is actually amazing….I hit “submit” on my last post and remember something that happened that should have told me all right then and there. I was at EUM’s house and we were sitting outside in the late evening. One of his neighbors came over and when EUM introduced me to her she said, “Oh, my daughter mentioned meeting you a few weeks ago.” I NEVER met her daughter and did not put two and two together because I believed EUM when he said we were exclusive. I don’t know if this woman didn’t realize I was not the same girl or if she was trying to be kind and let me know to be careful.
I think I read somewhere about EUMs keeping large harems. My xEUM has a lot of women friends. In fact he has a lot more women friends then he does men. I always thought it was because he understood women so well that he couldn’t help, but have so many women friends. Now I’m hearing that it’s more for an ego boost, then because he actually understands us or wants to understand us. I asked a male friend of mine about that. He said that as a male he doesn’t trust this guy(xEUM). Anyway what do you guys think?
My ex-EUM also had a lot of female friends but I viewed it as positive. My question is, how is the ego stroked if the relationship is platonic?
One more thing. He is very social and seemed to be liked by both men and women.
Having an ego stroked has got nothing to do with sex and it doesn’t have to be between two people who are ‘romantically’ involved. It’s about attention, period. Many Mr Unavailable’s have female friends who they hang with, who tell him he’s amazing or that the woman he’s with is not suited to them, or who he sleeps with on the occasion or hints that he may deign them with the possibility of him being involved. Others just like female attention.
I’m not sure that xEUM was liked by many men. I was surprised to learn that there is actually some people that don’t like him. I found him to be very social too. He always seemed to be in a good mood. Then I found out that he suffered from depression and anxiety. He’s very moody, but I didn’t know that until I became initimate with him.
Hmmm…I think it makes sense that they have so many female friends for ego strokes. Just knowing that so many women look up to them or seek them out for advice must be good for ego strokes. A lot of women use to go talk to him and ask for his opinions. So them having a lot of women friends is a red flag?
NML…
Is he still getting his ego stroke if I am his friend but don’t constantly tell him that he is wonderful good looking etc…??? In fact, I feel I am the opposite……. I’m asking because I have many male friends (including one who I think is an EUM) and I guess because I sense or know that he gets sooo much attention from women….(and it actually makes me sick how these women sometimes act around him… giving him soo many compliments etc.). I actually dont comment on his looks or clothes or anything. Am I still giving him an ego stroke because I talk to him and it is platonic like Gaynor said? What is the happy medium? Or is there none?
Karen, Mr Unavailable’s are driven primarily by ego and that dictates what they do and they don’t do. There is no happy medium. It’s got nothing to do with what you think you’re doing, saying, thinking, feeling etc otherwise there wouldn’t be half the problems there are with these men. This is about him and how he chooses to intepret your attention. You want there to be a happy medium because you are determined to stay invested in the relationship. Much like with no contact where contact is contact, with Mr Unavailable, attention from you is attention. You are overreading into things and projecting your vision of things rather seeing the situation or him for what it is.
NML’s last blog post..Why you shouldn’t wait for him to make a decision about you
I don’t think that having female friends for a guy is a red flag. It’s all down to the type of relationships they have. Does he string one or more of them along making them believe it’s something more other than a friendship? That’s a red flag. Does he revel in the knowledge that one or more of them adore him in a way that’s more than friendly? That’s a red flag. But having female friends is not a red flag per se.
I’ve had a crush for someone who was just a friend but that didn’t make him a “EUM”. It was me having a crush for someone who didn’t have a crush on me. And it was up to me “being crushed” or moving on. Of course he was pleased, of course he was flattered when I told him after two years. Did he do anything to “keep me in love” for two years? No. It was my responsibility.
We can’t give them the knife, beg them to hurt us, ignore the fact that THEY ARE NOT IN LOVE WITH US and then scream victim!
Our happiness is OUR responsibility and our alone.
wow i needed to read this. makes me realise i made the right decision by dumping the my ex who freaked out as soon as i left as much as a bottle of shampoo at his house!
Yep, makes sense. Thanks again NML.
Judy, I had the same experience with that place. They are all about money. Every other post is call a coach. I wondered how many of their posters were even real or just shills for the site? The coaches seemed to have no qualifications, no degrees in anything.
With the Mr. Unavailable, any type of attention is good for them. It is just sad that there are so many dishonest people out there.
NML, I think this may be one of the differences between how boys and girls are raised today. Way back in the day, girls were raised with dolls (practice babies) and keep house – make a home. Boys worked with their father, learned to keep a family.
Today we still have dolls – but the keeping a family part isn’t well marketed like football and G.I.Joe or Play Station III. Or Wii.
Many guys miss the part about building a family. Many girls do, as well, of course – but they aren’t worried about commitment.
The answer to this disconnect – guys not having a vision or goal of making a family – is to pick guys that know what a family is, and wants to build one. For such a guy, the family is important, asking a girl out may be awkward the first time, but the reasons for asking, the reason to choose a responsible mate – these will already be there.
Shoes don’t stretch, men don’t change, and wanting to take a “relationship” to “the next level” is a switch in marketing strategy, a change in what products stores want to sell you. “Freedom only helps you say goodbye” (Karen Carpenter). You have to know that your partner is your mate, before getting serious.
Brad what an excellent post!
I think our disposable mentality in our society has a lot to do with it.
My therapist who is male, talked about the plethora of lazy mama’s boys under the age of 35. Zero work ethic, never taught to care about anything but themselves, etc.
I guess the point he was making is that there is such a lack of men who have good married life qualities about them.
I guess it is hard to know at first when you get involved if the person has the qualities of making a good partner for life. People are always on their best behavior at first.
reality is the big thing here. I got out of a two year relationship with a guy who just could not bring himself to commit. It was always some excuss after another and promises that he never kept. I finally put it together. . .He wanted me around just in case he decided one day that he wanted to be with me. . .well thats not good enough. I was not going to stand for being put on “lay away”. I told him it was over and although he tried to beg me back, manipulate me into seeing him again and pulled a number of other stunts to get me back in his life none of them were the offer of commitment. Although I would have turned him down had he even gotten down one one knee It was the shock of reality that pulled me out of my own head. These guys have no intentions they walk around misguided about what love really is and so self obsorbed they are incapable of truely feeling real deep love. This is sad. I feel bad for him. He will never have the kind of relationship with love and respect and trust that I will be able to eventually find. I comfort myself from the loss of our “relationship” by the thought that 1. With him gone I can find real love 2. That he can never hurt me again 3. That i got to be the one to walk away and I took control of the situation. Don’t let someone take away who you are by diminishing your own view of how worthy you are of a good solid relationship. Always remember that the only validation you really need to seek is from yourself. You ladies are all above living outside of reality. Open your eyes so that you can see what you really deserve.
A few days ago I ended a relationship with an EUM. He was a good friend.. but he forgot to hold up his part of the bargain. in all honesty, after 8 months of knowing him. i fell for him… and hard. hearing all about his grief divorce,kids, work problems, all meetings and calls were at his convenience, also we never had sex. once when we did try he couldn’t get it up and wept on my shoulder for half an hour (possibly from the trauma of his earlier separation, i dont really know) . since then my calls and messages in the last two months were met with no response, if i would then bump into him with common friends, his behaviour was as if nothing is wrong and not even a oh i forgot to call you back ! (I understand he is hurting, due to separation from two daughters and wife. but even if I was a crutch he must respect it). I lost patience with his unavailability as a friend to me, as well as a lover. he got angry and surprised at my emotions pathos and decided that its no good being friends again. its been bad.. the loss, etc but I do realise now that I have a pattern of attracting EUM. yes with me there was an absent father who died when i was 12, and a distant mother. So that seals the cause. My question to the people in this forum is, what can i do to change it? and how? love myself yes. but what is it that can make me not be attracted to EUMs ?
Hi Anna
I would recommend reading the 30 days of drama reduction series of posts. First and foremost it is understanding what it is about us that makes us attracted to these men… then by knowing this, the next step is about recognizing “red flags” and those indicators and triggers that we need to pay attention to and learn stay away from rather than going on AUTO PILOT and thinking these are the right feelings we should be having. I know for me i thought having this uneasy feeling, the unsureness, the hot and cold were all indicators that I was having a “relationship”. I guess because that is all I had ever known. Then I realized that no, those feelings were in fact indicators that I was with the wrong person. Its amazing how we can be so out of touch with what a “healthy relationship” should look and feel like. Perhaps we have been in bad one’s for soo long… .we dont even know a good one when it comes along and so we walk around thinking that this must be it!!! All in all…it is similar to an addiction or a bad habit…. its learning to recognize our patterns, be extremely aware of it and then know to leave the situation whenever we see or feel these triggers.
Again– I would read the book as well (if you havent done so already) and also read the posts under “30 days of drama reduction”.
Best of luck!!! 🙂
I absolutely love this site!!!! oh myGod—i found this at the right time in my life!!! just broke up with my EUM for the 7th time in 10 mths!!
this man was a complete JERK!!! I saw the signs early on but didn’t exactly know the seriousness of his sickness! He is 57 yrs old, never been married(so he says), lying, cheating,egotistical, narcissistic, full of him self fool!!! At first he told me he had many female friends, some exes, some just friends—-and through-out the relationship he never introduced me to any but one woman!! he lied to the others about not having a girlfiend and was always uncomfortable talking to them in front of me, and when questioned about the nature of the relationships he’d blow up or sometimes lie or just avoid saying anything!! In the beginning he seemed like the sweetest guy a girl could want, the relationship seems absolutely wonderful—until i discovered his habitual lying, hiding his cell phone, confronting him, checking his phone!! he told me he was in-love with me and talked about a future with me until I became enraged and aggravated concerned about where things were going. I was the perfect woman for him as long as I didn’t complain or call him on his faults!! I spent countless months asking him for commitment, truth, openess, and all i got were empty promises and dissapointment constantly!!! now he can’t take anymore saying he wants a nice, quiet, humble woman who doesn’t fuss at him and he blames me for him not wanting a future with me!! I kept thinking i’ll just try and be more understanding and be quiet but i was living with gut renching anxiety daily and worried about what he was doing when he wasn’t with me. I thought that a man of his age would know what he wants by NOW!!!!! well i ended it for good a few days ago and i am graetful for this site!!
I’ve been listening to Chrisette Michelle’s new song(Epiphany) and it has helped me to stay focused and not go back to this JERk!!!
Please comment on this ladies —please!
I’m pretty heartbroken right now, although reading this blog makes me feel better just knowing that what I’m “giving up” is actually a non-relationship that makes me feel terrible a lot of the time. I’ve been involved with this emotionally unavailable guy for over 2 years, the first year he couldn’t even ask me out, would constantly flake out on our plans and his main form of communication was drunk texting me! I got sick of that and we stopped talking for about half a year but reconnected about a year ago and began sleeping with each other. At first I was only seeing him about once a month, which is so absurd but somehow I just refused to see the writing on the wall. Then for a while things were going “well” meaning we’d see each other once a week (usually at night and we’d meet up when we’d already been out partying with other ppl), I met all his friends and family who I adore, he became more communicative (but still barely and through texting). But there were still tons of red flags, the relationship was nowhere near normal but my standards became so low that when he threw me a bone, I accepted it wholeheartedly and considered it a “good step”. I told him to stop treating me like a booty by only calling me at night but in reality I don’t think that he’s using me for sex, he’s not even really a super sexual person to be honest. The real problem is that he’s just not committed at all. If he gets “busy” with exams or work, i won’t hear from him for a week and a half, or see him for up to three weeks, and we live in the same city! We haven’t even discussed what we are, because I’m too scared to broach the subject knowing that he’s clearly NOT interested in having a real relationship. This past weekend, we went to a party at his friends house and we pretty much spent the entire night talking to other people, it’s like he’s scared to show affection at all. When one of his pals asked “is this your girlfriend?” he gave a pretty emphatic “no” which stung a lot. When we got back to his house, he kind of acted like I wasn’t there and went on his computer downloading stuff and chatting to his friends for about 20 minutes until I got pissed off, grabbed my things and took off. And he hasn’t even called me since then. Writing all of this out really makes me realize what a jerk he’s been and I’m tired of excusing his behaviour and insisting that he’s really a “great guy” who just has commitment issues. I don’t know, he’s my first love and I’m still really in love with him. I know what I have to do but I feel like doing it is going to rip my heart out. Will I ever get over this?
Thank you again for this site. I love it, it’s an eye opener, it’s truthful and it’s something me and a lot of women need.
I did something similar a long time ago when me and my son were cohabitating with a guy. He was nice, he was fun, my son loved him, he treated my son as his own, he tucked him in, played with him, helped with his homework, picked him up at school, etc and we seemed one, big, happy family. About 1.5 years into our cohabitation, I brought up the topic of marriage and whether our relationship is going down that path. I am after all a single mother and I’m not in this relationship by myself. I made him so nervous about the subject, he said that he needed to go for a drive. That was the first clue that gave me that he was not into this relationship as much as I was.
Several weeks later, he told me that he will be moving out and I asked him if he needed help.
I was heart-broken needless to say, especially when I’d involved my son into this relationship. I learned two very important lessons from that relationship. One, don’t get my son involved with the guys I’m dating until I know he’s serious and completely committed, two, never cohabitate.
Thank you
NML,
i have a questions. My EUM and I broke up a few weeks ago and decided that we should just be friends because he can’t give me what I need. Since then, we’ve hooked up a few times which I know is stupid because I’ve basically absolved him from all responsibility. Yesterday, we spent the entire day together for my birthday with my friends, he drove us all out to the lake and it was just really nice. We ended up sleeping together at night. I’m just wondering, in your books it talks about Mr. Unavailable being all about the ego, but my guy is shy, timid, awkward and somewhat self-conscious. He’s a really sweet, cute/endearing guy, but he definitely uses alcohol as a crutch, he always drunk dials me (and rarely sober dials!), and is more open and affectionate when he is drunk. It’s not just sex, it’s that he can talk about our relationship, he can hold my hand, he’s just less awkward. But when he’s sober it’s like there’s a wall that goes up, he’s resistant to falling in love me with. He’s only just turned 22 years old, and I’m only the second girl he’s ever slept with or cared about and I”m just wondering — is it possible that he’ll grow out of this and that it has to do with legitimate immaturity. It’s difficult for me to believe that someone with so many great characteristics will NEVER be able to give a woman what she needs out of a relationship. Also, is it possible that he does genuinely care about me and is not intentionally using me to stroke his ego, although he admittedly is not giving me what I deserve. When we broke up I told him that I felt like he couldn’t open up to me and he admitted that he can’t and that he’s struggling to understand why he acts the way that he does. He said that although he’s shitty boyfriend material, he could never see me for a lengthy period of time without having feelings but that he knew that was what I was thinking, which is why we should end the relationship. We get along ridiculously well, and I love his friends and family and vice versa. Is there a way we can somehow be friends once I’m out of love with him? I really think he has a good heart.
Confused,
Before you can have a relationship with a guy, he has to be able to have a relationship. An alcoholic – someone who’s drinking affects family or friends – is too tangled up to consider. By remaining in contact with him, you are enabling his behavior. He will never seek to heal – which won’t happen because he says it will, or because you ask or demand – as long as he has his “friend”. By trying to be there for him, you allow him to remain comfortable and self-medicated.
Alcoholics don’t have a good reputation for relationships, for a reason. Alcohol, used regularly, distorts the world. If your guy has learned to get along while drunk – he isn’t living in the sober world where he could do anyone much good for anything.
You may want to contact Al-Anon or Alcoholics Anonymous for more information about being in an alcoholic’s life, and about how much assistance you will need, to recover from being a part of his life.
Dialing drunk is not a party prank, it is profound disrespect of self and others.
In addition to causing him to continue his self-medicated behavior, staying his “friend” keeps you involved with him – and not available to meet and start something meaningful with someone suitable.
Unless you actually want your ex to be a barrier, to keep you from having to be part of a long term relationship.
Brad K.’s last blog post..BR: Commitment, a perspective
Hi Brad,
I think you might have misunderstood me. He is definitely NOT an alcoholic, he just parties like any other college kid, probably as much as I do (weekends/holidays). What I was trying to say was that when he is drunk, he’s a lot more open, particularly towards me and our relationship and he is less guarded about showing me affection, this applies to sex as well. There are some people who make booty calls when they are drunk because they want sex. But with my guy, he doesn’t seem to have confidence to make a move unless he is drunk, so that’s mainly when we have sex. And even more so now that we’re broken up. It’s like he thinks if it happens under the influence it doesn’t count in the real world, and that’s what he’s freaked out of — making the relationship legitimate and having to take the responsibility and intimacy that goes along with it. He’s rarely able to open up to me when he’s sober, I think that’s just too real for him. He definitely has confidence issues but I dont think he’s necessarily a jerk off.
Confused
I don’t know how much you really are invested in this guy, he probably has a sensitive and good heart, but its his head and work ethic that’s the trouble. Take it from me, a party girl of the 70’s. If you are not in touch with your feelings and can’t handle your emotions, except when a drug or alcohol is involved, you have not one, but two problems.
The first is emotional immaturity; the path to maturing emotionally includes self awareness and learning to honestly face and deal with your strong emotions as a sober adult. Emotions are powerful, childhood hurts are plentiful, many sensitive people are afraid of and confused by strong feelings that come with love, fear and hurt.
The second problem is the comfortable feeling some people get from a drug or alcohol. While the substance is comforting, it also stunts one’s emotional growth, as mentioned above. Very very few drugs encourage self awareness and understanding and I would not put alcohol in that category. I see alcohol as a numbing / avoidance drug. And I certiainly am not recommending those few drugs that may offer insight either.
It’s so hard for me to call someone shy and 22 years old an assclown or jerk. He def is an EUM though. The 50+ EUM that I knew was an alcoholic for decades and, sadly, at that age the AC tag fits pretty well. I always thought he had the emotional maturity of someone thirty years younger.
The man you know is at the age where he should be at least starting to figure stuff out and it instead sounds like he’s heading for Wallowing Boy Land. I been there, and its not a pretty picture when a guy basically tells you all the reasons why he’s no good, and then does not do anything to get better.
Admitting you are struggling, as he has, is not the same as getting help and working on your problems, though it is a first important step. But I think many man- boys get women to feel sorry for them, the women try to help them, and it proves to be a frustrating experience for all.
Even if this man does not fit your profile of a full blown alcoholic, he is self medicating, and has the same issues that drive people to abuse drugs to cope with thier struggles, It is human to want intimacy, but if you have trouble coping with it, you will have a hard time in life. If you avoid working on what troubles you, you will have a hard time in this life.
He would benefit so much from being able to work on his intimacy issues, but the reason many of us women are here is we thought we could help a guy do that and…it does not work that way.
He has to recognize his issues, he has to see a problem, he has to want to work on his problem. You have to live your life. There are a lot of stories on these pages of women who gave a lot of thier lives to EU men. What we all have in common is that it did not work out so well.
aphrogirl,
I think you’re right and either way he’s not going to change while I’m sitting around being his fallback girl. As much as I love him and am very emotionally invested in him, I’m starting to realize that I can’t project my affection on him in hopes that he’ll reciprocate. It seems like he’s most comfortable when he hasn’t seen me for a week or two, I guess because that space makes him feel better, and then he’ll pursue me. But throughout our relationship, the majority of his contact has been thru text, facebook or drunk dialing. I don’t want him to go through his life like this, but I guess that’s no longer my concern. It’s time that I start being selfish too, I just turned 22 and I don’t want to waste any more years in this limbo.
This site is amazing at taking all the B.S out of dating and relationships and keeping it real.. I love it. Here i was today upset because i had met a guy a couple of weeks ago on a dating site and we met and there was instant chemistry and we both said we were looking for the same thing… He sent me flowers to work and paid for everything and said things like ‘he really liked me and could easily fall in love with me’ and i was suckered in by it all… We both agreed from the start that we wouldn’t date other ppl and we’d see how this goes. Last week i started noticing him adding random chiks to his facebook and today i actually went to deactivate my profile and noticed he was online. I text him and told him not to worry about seeing each other on the weekend and he asked what was wrong. I told him i saw him on the dating site and he said the guys at work were on his computer and when its turned on everything opens up. Now we’re talking a dating site- that you have to go to, not messenger that just loggs on. Anyway, then he said he doesnt like ppl who jump to conclusions and that he wasnt happy. Like a fool i fell for it and asked him to put himself in my shoes and how that would have looked and i even said i was sorry :/… But after reading some of the articles on this site, i am not going to enter into his games. He was on there, looking for something better to come along and got caught and tried to make me feel bad ( which admittidly i was for a bit).. But thanks to this awesome sight i am inspired to get on with my day/week/ life and not be drawn into the head games these guys wanna play. (Btw after i said sorry, he didnt reply back most likely to make me feel bad for catching him out aka accusing him lol..) But he can forget it. over and out xx
“Tell me guys– do you really think that a man in his 30’s didnt want to hurt me so instead of letting me go—- he just held on until I couldnt take it anymore and I had to end it?”
This is exactly what my EUM has done to me for two years, and he’s in his 40s. I think that part of him, as an afterthought – or when I’m asking him about the relationship – brings out this incredibly lame excuse to justify his behavior. But knowing him well, I also know that the man just doesn’t have the cajones to take a stand on ANYTHING. He doesn’t really want me, but he doesn’t really not want me either. My EUM is truly one of the most spineless, jellyfishes of a human being I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. I have lost absolutely all respect for him as a human being, let alone as a man. And all I can do now, is focus on salvaging my own self-respect out of the trash after willingly, agonizingly (and ok, spinelessly) submitting to his behavior for two years!
Yes, I’m a little angry. And it feels good. (-:
I just found this site, and went through a bunch of posts, and it’s crazy how true what you’ve written is, so I just wanted to say thank you.
I’m still in college, and earlier this week I met with a guy who’d seemed like he was interested. We’d been spending a lot of time together, and he brought me to meet his parents, and his friends. He called me and texted me regularly, and we got to be quite close. When I wound up kissing him at a party a few weeks later, it all felt quite natural.
However, when I saw him this week (shortly after the hookup- which was both drunk and sober), I told him that I wasn’t interested in a friends with benefits arrangement and that I’m only in for the real deal. And he said he didn’t know. And I said- read: me, projecting- I said would he like to take some time to think, and he said yes, and I told him I wouldn’t wait forever.
And I don’t think he’s ever going to call or give me a real concrete decision. But at least now I know he is an assclown who jerked me around without ever really intending to give me what I want.
“I also know that the man just doesn’t have the cajones to take a stand on ANYTHING. He doesn’t really want me, but he doesn’t really not want me either.”
Exactly what I concluded after 30 years of marriage! He forced me to finally break up with myself! Stay angry, PlanetJane; it’s a great motivator and keeps the focus on action rather than beating yourself up. Don’t waste too much time waiting for him to become a real man.
I had been dating an EUM for six months. I usually don’t attract this kind of relationship, so it has been very hard. I guess I saw the red flags in the beginning, he just didn’t seem that interested, but I wrote it off to being shy. He had been coming out of a 26 year marriage and I thought I would give him some space and be patient. Over the past several months he began calling more and we would meet at the club where I met him. I was excited about the progress and spent the weekend with him and some of his friends. That night he called me to make sure I had gotten home ok. and I expressed how I felt abut him and he reciprocated. He called the next several nights and we made plans to see each other that weekend. That Friday night he called and said he was breaking up with me and he was getting back together with his girlfriend of three years that he had been having problems with. I thought he was unattached, he never said anything about a girlfriend. He said he realized how much he loved her and that he and I should just be friends. I was just devistated, I has feelings for him and he was in love with someone else the entire time. I feel like I was hit by a truck. Any comments from anyone?
Jolene,
It sucks!!!!
Mine had been coming out of a 20+ marriage for four-years. I guess I should have recognized there may be a problem when he discussed how much the ex had hurt him during the marriage, yet still made her an important presence in his life with the adult kids .
These guys are so screwed up and have absolutely no concern for anyone but themselves. I think they lack any conscious or character whatsoever; isn’t nice that we’re there to serve any temporary needs they may have.
Did he ever mention the ex?
He said during his marriage that he tried and tried but things just kept getting worse. He never once mentioned his current GF. I guess I should have listened to the warning signs, the guy for some reason just creeped me out. He also said that he didn’t get along with his daughter, she wasn’t speaking to him, another red flag. I would have liked to have known what happened. Its just that now I don’t want to go back to my astronomy club, he has been there a long time.
Thanks for all your help! I have decided to join another club in the area for awhile, I don’t want to see him. It’s funny though, he is the VP of the club and very well liked among the other members, mostly men. Its kind of a contradiction. He would usually call me, but one week I was on vacation out of town and he had left a message inviting me to an event they were having. I called him back and he was so cold. I was expecting him to say he missed me while I was gone and that he was happy to hear from me. Instead when I was speaking to him, he was very distant and said “You called?” Frost over the phone lines! I was just trying to say I had gotten his message and want to confirm.
What do you mean he is a predator and what kind?
I am sure that even if he was to try to get things going with him again, I wouldn’t be tempted. The entire experience was just too awful. I can’t imagine being the GF, the one he says he is in “love” with. That was another thing, how can you say how much you love someone else to a person that has just expressed their feelings for you? It was actually very cruel.
Jolene, a predator – spends his social time looking for someone to meet his needs, at least until the next event or hunt.
His actions say he is looking for comfortable, bubble-headed dates that won’t interfere with his tidy little world. Whatever he *thinks* he wants – it isn’t to share a life, build a home, or change his ways.
As for the frosty phone moment – don’t waste time trying to figure it out. It may have been the company or location he was, it might have been his Time Of The Month, whatever. He obviously considered your call an annoyance, and seems to be annoyed with you – which can happen between lovers, but is *not* reassuring, and would make me think of walking away.
Yes, second chances and forgiveness are important things, trying to get along with someone and in a community. But disrespect? That stings, and stinks, and is a *nasty* habit – and taints those that use it.
Brad K.’s last blog post..Why do men chase women?
i was dating this guy for almost two months and everything was good between us except he never tooked me out. i was introduced to all of his friends and family but never taken out. when i told him how much it hurt me that he didn’t take me out bcuz i felt as if he didnt care about me he told me it wasnt true but that he doesnt know whether or not he can fully commit 2 me. u see we are both in our final yr of college and are both trying to get into a grad school. he tells me im perfect but the timing is not. was i fooled as well? is he lying?
Men who are 40+, never married, and on children are the MOST dangerous men walking the planet. They KNOW that many women view them as a “catch,” yet they continually string women along by giving them clues that they are really ready to settle down. A man of 40+ has AT LEAST 20 years of dating experience under his belt, and since these men usually are NOT sleeping alone, they get off by leading women on, and dumping them when they feel that things are getting too serious. Surely, in ALL of those years of dating, they found one or more women who could have made them great wives and/or mothers of their children. These men are experts at the game of seduction/rejection, so if you don’t want to get badly burned, I suggest that you RUN FAST IN THE OTHER DIRECTION when you meet them. If you want a friend, these men may be good candidates but as potential husbands and fathers, don’t waste your time.
@ THE TRUTH,
I would say men over 25-30, that are out looking for dates, fall into the warning you describe so eloquently.
But there are others, that aren’t chasing skirts, that aren’t even considering having someone to share their lives with. Men of character and honor, disciplined, some have experience raising animals or kids, have healthy emotional bonds to friends and family, have the respect of friends and co-workers. But they are *not* hanging out at pickup spots. You may need to be active in your community to find someone that knows these quiet and respectful partner possibilities. You just need to find someone that knows who they are, and be patient to become their friend and win their respect, then convince them they want to share their lives. Don’t count on them understanding the etiquette of dates and dating. But do rely on their honor and character – or move on to another candidate.
I have read that jobs are like dates – it is easier to get one if you currently have one. Be danged sure you avoid anyone already dating. You want someone with character, not a life-skill of winning bed partners. Someone skilled at winning bed partners make great companions for a sex adventure – but not for anything where you need to trust your partner.
Brad K.’s last blog post..Book: Judge Judy gets tough on romance
this is the first article i saw that i could actually relate my experience with one guy with. we were ‘dating’ for a while. but there was definitely a wrong vibe going on. he was sending me mixed signals. hot and cold. and to think I put up with it for a while even when I was never really that comfortable with him to begin with.
i finally decided to stop making excuses for his behavior. he gave the impression that he was busy with other things but I knew that he just wasn’t that into me. i stopped replying to his messages and when he still kept on bugging me i just told him flat out to not ask me out anymore cause it was confusing. end of story.
The one I now call “The Player”, the most recent one, blew very hot and cold with me too from the start, noththatintome. Just like you, I found his mixed messages made me feel uncomfortable and reluctant to readily commit so deeply, as I had with the others.
It helped that the last one I’d been involved with had been and outright, raging, threatening (either) Malignant Narcissist or downright Psychopath – and there was the first time ever in my life I told myself, “No more! If this is what I get, I’d rather be alone!”.
And so I intended to be… til along came The Player. Now I can see his pattern and hear his pat as clear as day – especially as he plays it out on others right in front of me, lol.
But the mental decision I’d made after the previous horror experience seems to have stood me in good stead. I’m not a great believer in “dreams”, etc., although I fully accept that for some they can be very useful and informative. Mine, though are normally weird and jumbled snippets about nothing much.
However, while The Player was drawing me in, I had a dream about swimming in a pool of liquid gold and being called to put my head under, to get fully into it and totally submerge. As lovely as it was in the pool of gold, I completely resisted the urge to put my head under; and as the calls to submerge became more insistent and promised me “no harm would come to me and I’d still be able to breathe”, I decided I would never put my head into it… and I got our completely rather than be tempted to.
A couple of days later, I’d become so fed up of waiting to hear from him that I sent him an email saying, “If this is to go anywhere I would have to have more contact more often – not just one or two lines of text a day – and I’d want to know more about the real you too”.
He snapped an email back, “There is no more time; I’m giving you all the effort I can spare right now; and, although it might have been different a while ago and might well be in the future, right now you are no priority of any kind at all”.
I was just about to write back… and then I thought, “Why? What for?”, and I let it go.
That was almost 3 months ago and I decided to follow up on why I draw this kind of relationship into my life and see where and how I am responsible. Which led me here!
Much better and more productive than sitting around waiting for him to decide on what happens next, how and when.
When I think back on it, it started with his claim that he’s in “an empty relationship with a woman who is a great friend, so he doesn’t want to hurt her; but who hasn’t slept with him for 18 months/two years; which he might have settled for until I came along and reopened blah blah blah”… you know the b/s that’s involved.
Well, he’s since had a heart attack and surgery to keep him going, and the “gal pal” he lives with has had to do all the nursing and nurturing instead of me. I thought he might appreciate her better because of that, but nope! Now he can move, he’s back at the Game again. And this was a man I tried to make myself believe could be The One, lol?
What was I up to I wonder? Luckily, I’ve found this site now so I can really start to figure that out for the first time ever.
Best Regards, Leonine
Ladies,
I am not one to give an “ego stroke” to any undeserving a**hole, but if marriage is what you want, why is it up to the man to do the asking? I thought we lived in a world where a marriage proposal could come from either side. Oh, I know, going back to our childhood of our “Knight in Shining Armor” syndrome. Sorry, if I want to marry someone, by golly, I’ll ask him. And if he says “no”, well, bye, bye!
Very nice. Was so interesting to read and learn from you guys. Thank you so much for your time and info.
Once again, the topic is right on,ladies! We need to take back our power, forgive and love ourselves!
I ,too, am struggling, heartbroken over someone who cannot decide , commit, express emotions or communicate effectivley. It is painful and downright insulting to have a relationship w/ someone who is in constant retreat who claims to be unsure of how they feel about you after 6 months !? Saywhat? How can you not know? This assclown is in his 40s and I guess he thinks he’s something really special…who(women???), I ask , blows smoke up these guys asses so much that they can believe they are just fine and can lasoo women in and then distance themselves, keeping them hanging on so they get everything on thier terms??!!! Is it 1956 ? Is it really “a mans'(man-boys’ !)world?!? Say it isn’t so!
I’m just going through withdraw…he kept me connected through text/email(daily) and a couple calls per week… and we saw each other in -person weekly.
Every time we got close he got his period and withdrew or we had a “talk” where he would really hurt me.I felt like these “abort missions” were too painful and after the 3rd(3 strikes and your out, buddy!) I withdrew and haven’t made contact in a month. I pray that god takes out the garbage and that I can move on and attract someone who is worthy of what I have to offer! Good luck, be strong, beautiful and deserving women that I know you all are!
Jayne,
I am not sure what you expected. Few today set out to find a suitable spouse candidate. If you wait to feel that “zing” – you are letting your hormones pick a sex partner, not your head to evaluate the suitability of someone that would be responsible, if sharing your life with you.
Don’t wait for “god to take out the garbage”. Learn to enjoy living outside the dump. There truly are good communities and good people, people that respect and honor character and discipline. That understand responsibility and honesty.
It is interesting that you wait for him to commit. Did you really and truly find him well suited to be the guy you share the rest of your life with – or was he acceptable (mostly) and suitable (kind of)? It seems as if he demonstrated a horrible streak of “undependable”. That is fundamental, and won’t change just because he decides to “commit”. Simple respect for yourself should have told you that what he wanted doesn’t matter – you cannot use him in your life. NML has written some really great material on self esteem, and especially boundaries, that help set the scene to identify the good guys, and kick the bums out soonest.
Luck.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..br: The practice doll =-.
I am in love with a married man(i am married to) we have met 3 times since Feb 2009 and would love to be together.
We have been talking since November 2008–then finally met in Feb 2009 for 6 fabulous days.
He lives in England and I live in Canada. I have two children -13 and 9 and he had two children 19(boy) and 16 (girl) He says he just can’t leave his daughter right now-it would be tough to leave wife after 20 years of marriage -he says–but its the daughter that really hurts.
We have a love that seems so grande–how do i leave my kids for him being so young–and how does he leave–says he can’t right now his daughter who is just starting her grade 11. a lot of things i read hear are about excuses with married men–but he does live in another country. Am if foolish to wait for a more appropriate time -its not like he can separate and still see her in the next town every day or when she needs him. Please i need your advise.
Rebecca,
I would love to know how this situation has played out. Have been involved in a “very” similar situation myself and would like to know how you have been handling it.
Thanks.
Rebecca,
Sorry, I cannot help but notice two things that seem stark and obvious. One is that you cannot have the attention or affection for another, nor he for you, without violating your vows, without immense failures of character.
And without character, there is no hope that your feelings are truly love, nor that he would be a dependable mate if you did come together.
People don’t change. If he won’t hold to his marriage, how can you ever believe he will hold to you? If he couldn’t pick a life-long mate the first time – what makes you think he has acquired that skill since then, and that taking up with you will have anything but a horrid ending? And, of course, I have the same question of you, how can you believe that you are picking more wisely today, from within a sworn marriage, than you did before?
Taking up with a married person is one of the definitions of being emotionally unavailable. Rather than being in love, your affection and attention cloak what you are denying – that he is safe, he is unavailable.
You might wish your new guy well, and turn your attention to why you would jeopardize your children’s relationship with their father, or your vows to have to and to hold. You might want to understand why you would take up with someone that isn’t available, safe to play with.
I assume you are unhappy with your marriage, or you would not have fooled around. But there is that doubt, too. If you are unhappy with your marriage – why are you still married? If you are to respect yourself and others, if you were to demonstrate honor and honesty in your life for your children, then ending your marriage would have come first, long before you would have let another catch your attention. Instead you are indulging in feelings and fantasies, and denying the weight of the impact that your actions have on those around you.
The issue is not about how you or he should bear to leave your children for the other. The issue is more about whether you dare risk the morally weak partner that would cheat on their marriage.
Don’t get me wrong – he doesn’t really want a shared life with you. He also chose to mess around with an unavailable person, a fallback girl. NML’s book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl gives a lot of background, and different perspectives, on how this kind of arrangement is a sign of weakness and problems.
Luck.
I was with my ex-fiance for five years, and while I had the ring I never had the commitment. I met him when I was 38, and fell for him immediately. He was great the first year, and then poof – a different man. I found out why recently when a woman named Candy called me to tell me he was also engaged to her, and had been with her for a year. I had been wondering all along why why his actions did not macth his words. I got the message loud and clear. Problem is now I feel old and unattractive because I am concentrating on how he treated me. I know that is not healthy, and need to work on me. Getting to that point seems to be a process. These posts are helping so thank you!
The person I was seeing lost his job and everything was going fine but then he started seeing other women. At first I thought it was just to stroke his ego, but then I realized that he was actually dating one of them. I told him to make a decision to either piss or get off the pot, shortly afterwards he told me that he needed to focus on getting his life together because he was one step from being homeless if he didn’t find a job. He told me all the things he wanted to do but couldn’t because of his lack of money. Well he told me he was taking a break to work on himself that it had nothing to do with me, I was great, that we would see each other in the near future.
LT,
Wow, kinda sounds like my ex. Mine also said that it had nothing to do with me but that he had to get his employment situation worked out, then we would have a future. Funny, I heard he found a position some time back but he forgot to call and work at reestablishing the relationship. (LOL)
I think they throw the “future” in there so that you will continue to hang on. Sick!!!
Does he happen to live in N.J?
It’s funny how they don’t have any money to be in a loving stable relationship but are capable of seeing their friends or other women.
I think at 40 I have just figured out that EUM’s is all I have ever gone for. Every single one. I have lived my whole life thinking, “If I just loved them a little more, surely they will see how wonderful I am!” I have fixed wounded men, paid for things I shouldn’t have, given out compliments when they weren’t warranted and loved a dream.
I just broke up with my recent EUM of two years. I was particularly proud of figuring this one out. If I had this site a little sooner….maybe not…but every time I got away from an EUM it was my decision. Never his. And yet it hurts just the same. And I understand it is this retarded dream I have to be with a man that can never be with me. So this last time, I told him no more, that I knew he would never commit to me entirely, that he wouldn’t move to be closer and that he would never get married. He tried to “rehash the relationship” thinking I needed it to move on. I laughed and said “it wouldn’t do any good or change anything” – including him.
So I am now working on not being the fixer. The person who finds the wounded guy and makes everything all better.
When I start to feel crappy – I read this site and I feel better about my decisions. Also, I need to listen to that inner voice (I like to call her my big sister) telling me to “bail” a whole lot sooner.
Its been 4 months now of no contact with my “ex”. I’m still looking back and trying to figure out what happened with the entire situation. He was just throwing crumbs at me the entire time and I was trying to figure out what they meant. It was all so confusing. I feel really good about just walking away from the situation, not going back to the place I know he will be at.
But, I still have questions about him, like what was the point? If it was just for an ego stroke or sex, that is very small and petty. Was this kind of thing just an isolated event or does he have a pattern of this kind of thing? I feel like I’ve learned alot from this experiece and this website has been great. I find that other people don’t understand what its like to be caught up in this kind of thing.
In the mean time I have been keeping busy with family and friends, and hoping someday I will meet someone who will treat me the way I deserve to be treated. I’ve had some great loving relationships in the past and I know I will have again.
I think Kim has it right, listen to that inner voice, get out quickly if it feels wrong, or it will only get worse. My inner voice was screaming at me, but I turned down the volume. Won’t happen next time!
A friend of mine emailed me this sight….my situation is that I’ve been friends with someone for over 2 years now…we’ve done this off & on ‘dating’/intimacy thing as well for the past 2 years…again, off & on….it’s gotten to the point where we’ve had conflicts primarily in social situations….our expectations i guess a bit different…and of course there’s been this emotional factor that’s tied into our relationship/friendship or whatever you want to call it. We have talked about exclusiveness; about a serious relationship…more so on my part because I’m ready….obviously, he is not…he isn’t ready for an official relationship, but is ready for exclusiveness when it comes to intimacy….he is not looking for anyone else, but isn’t ready for a relationship…..we’ve been having alot of serious conversations about everything lately….he tells me he doesn’t want to lose the friendship because he values the frienship, but because we have an emotional connection, it can also cause problems….so he is suggesting that we sit down and have another “talk” and go over all the pro’s and con’s of continuing our intimacy/emotional side….did any of this make sense??……confused LL. 🙁
It feels really reassuring to read some of these posts. Its funny to read some of the similarities of these post to my own experiences. I’ve been dating this guy for around 3 months. The first thing that I can say is….i’m confused!! It was understood from the start…more or less on his part…to maintain an open relationship. Wasn’t too bothered about that untill he tells me he wants to be my boyfriend and me his girl friend. However, with that said from the start I realized there was something missing….him asking me questions about myself. Rarely was a conversation started about me. There’s always a weirdness to our conversations. It just seeems one sided and slightly awkward. Just today I found confirmation that he lied to me about a party we were both invited to telling me the party was cancelled on the account of rain…yeah. Regardless of the party we still had plans to be together that day and when I asked him what his plans were he said they were up in the air and that he really didn’t have any…..even though WE had plans. I told him I’d buy some drinks and dinner if he’d like but he declined. Today I asked his roommate who was the one who invited us how the party went testing the waters and she tells me it was GREAT and she had a great time. Nice, huh? Before his apt today I left and note to him explaining that I don’t appreciate the dishonesty and that if he was going to lie to come up with a better one and one that can’t be so easily figured out. Discusted. He apearantly found someone else he rather spend the night lol. Open relationship..fine but don’t lie to me. I have no intention of contacting him. That’s his choice and even then I’m not letting this buy use me for a piece anymore.
I stumbled onto this site through a link on a thread in another forum, and I have been hooked all day! I’m so glad to be able to read about others’ experiences, so I don’t feel like I’m the only one in my position. I was pursued by a guy I met on line relentlessly, text messages, voice messages, msn. After about a month, we arranged to go out on a date, then he cancelled (by text!) 2 hours before we were supposed to meet…alarm bells were ringing, but I decided to give him another chance. Promise after promise, he was a future faker – wanting to take me on holiday, wanting me to meet his family. Yet everytime I suggested doing something together, there was always an excuse, be it his children, or work, and when we did meet up it was always just for a couple of hours. Everything was always on his terms, and I got to the point where I stopped asking to go out, or to spend time with him because I knew what the answer would be. And still I didn’t walk away! We’d agreed to spend just one day of the Christmas holidays together; he cancelled, but gratefully accepted the present I’d bought for him, we didn’t see the new year in together. The final straw for me was when he asked to borrow some money, and never paid it back; he conveniently forgot that he owed me, but was happily buying stuff for himself. I felt disrespected, so after six months I committed the ultimate sin of asking where he saw our “friendship” going, and he told me everything I wanted to hear, and like a fool, I fell for it. Except the next day, he’s no longer calling and texting, and when I do catch him on line, he tells me he’s lost his phone!!! This from a guy who loves his phone more than life itself. With no other way of contacting him, I ended it by e-mail, and I wish I had listened to the advice of others who told me just to stop contact, but I felt I had to let him know that I was no fool, and that I’d recognised what had been going on. It hurt like hell for the first few months, and I had periods of self doubt, but I know that I made the right decision, and I pity the next victim that falls for his charms.