Today is the final part of my 3 part explanation of the fundamentals of boundaries in relationships. In part one, I explained why boundaries are necessities, how boundaries are mostly taught through actions, how we teach people how to teach us, and how the core thread of human behaviour in relationships is acceptance and rejection. In part two, it was the big revelation that even if you don’t have boundaries, he does, plus I explained the necessity of consequences, and how ‘NO’ is not a dirty word. Here is the final 3….
8. Don’t use assumptions to drive your expectations of how others should behave
There’s a lot of reason why there is that saying about how making assumptions will make an ‘ass’ out of you – In speaking with many women over the last few years and reading the comments on this site, I see variations of this notion that we assume that because we think, feel, and act a certain way that the other person will do what we expect. This can feed into this idea that there are no boundaries necessary because surely the other party will do the right thing because they love you, care about you, are sleeping with you, or saying all of the right things?
Assumptions are not the same as expectations and you can’t have expectations of someone and a relationship without having boundaries.
Just as importantly though, you must sanity check your assumptions and expectations to unsure that you’re not under or over expecting…
Life is not a fairy tale. People don’t always do the right thing or even the thing that we expect. Yes it would be nice to assume and expect that everyone will play nice and be respectful within relationships, but there are too many factors that impact on a persons behaviour within a relationship to do this.
As women we find it far easier to deny the reality of someone’s behaviour, continue to make assumptions and expectations, and continue to let them cross boundaries or test them as we opt for dining off potential and being ‘optimistic’.
Claiming that you love, care, or want someone doesn’t give you an IOU to claim on and you cannot make assumptions or have expectations about someone who doesn’t have both feet in a relationship where there are no boundaries in place to ensure that you are not disrespected.
Assuming leads to uncommunicated expectations, which more often than not leads to boundary issues and this is because as discussed in part two, you are not communicating your boundaries, whether that is verbally or through actions.
Creating boundaries for your relationships leads to you being able to understand your expectations of a relationship.
Where there is one, there is the other. What is surprising though is that we love assuming and expecting without the boundaries in place to reflect our ‘ideals’…
If you look at it like this: If your boundaries are that you are only prepared to be involved with men who not attached to anyone else, who don’t disrespect you, who contribute to the relationship, who behave with honesty and integrity with you and others, and who don’t abuse you, drugs, alcohol etc, you not only will expect that a man will stay within these boundary lines but you won’t actually find yourself accepting the attention of a lying, cheat that has a penchant for coke… You’ll tell him to walk and keep walking.
9. When people disrespect your boundaries, it’s unlikely to be the once, so where one disrespect exists, there will be others.
This is why it’s important not to be short sighted and look at the overall picture. Instead of going – but he has some nice qualities or he’s great on his good days – it’s looking beyond the trees to the wood and saying – well most people have their good points but I cannot ignore the fact that he has done X, Y, and Z and that does not work for me.
Say it with me – If my boundaries are being crossed, this does not work for me. I can fight it, I can demand that they comply, but if nothing changes, it does not work for me.
This is why it is important to distinguish between what is completely unacceptable and what constitutes a wake up and pay attention warning.
The former means you opt out straight away – these are your core boundaries that should not change.
The latter means that you are not only aware of a potential problem but that you address it to ensure that it’s not something bigger that leads to it being a no-go. These are like your warning lights on the way to the boundary zone that give you indicators.
There’s no point in him sharing the same interests as you (for eg skiing, drinking fine wine, great for debating politics with etc), if the guy is a frickin assclown that won’t commit, won’t grow up, isn’t sure what he wants with you, screws around on you, calls you names, and repeatedly disrespects you and the relationship.
I wouldn’t feel that my boundaries had been crossed if a guy wanted to split the bill on the date but I would feel my boundaries had been crossed if he didn’t turn up, or if he said that he would call in a few days, but instead I heard from him several weeks later talking to me like we’d just spoken the day before…
Stick with a guy like this and he’ll always feel he can breeze in and out of your life, and even if you bollock him and tell him he’s out of line, he eventually figures out what what the maximum amount of time is that he can get away with not calling and he’ll ride with that.
10. Having boundaries is not just about ensuring that people don’t disrespect you – It’s about ensuring that you don’t keep putting yourself in situations where YOU end up disrespecting YOU.
Boundaries act as a signal that says step back. Your core boundaries should be your deal breakers, your unacceptable’s, your red flag, abort mission, the I don’t care why my libido or what I think my heart says, I’ve got to get out…for me.
If I guy tried to be overtly sexual with me on a first date or made an attempt to sleep with me, a warning alert would go to my brain. If he persisted and wouldn’t drop it, the alert would turn into a boundary crossing and I knew it was game over no credits.
You need to know your limits. This is liking, loving, and trusting your instincts so that even in those times when you do start to get carried away, that your core values and foundations that drive your boundaries, give you a base to come home to roost on…and get real and stay real.
That negative voice you have at times has no bounds and will leave you indecisive as you become riddled with self-doubt so you just ride the wave and hope everything will pan out because you don’t have a basis to sanity check your instincts against. Don’t allow negativity to power your decisions because you will end up with a negative result.
Your thoughts?
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Natalie, I love this post and you have no idea how perfect it is for me. Luckly I am stuck home with the big north east snow today and had a chance to reflect. I have had NO boundries over the past 4 years since going through a divorce, getting involved with a MM, and other EUM’s with the notion of having fun and free wheeling freedom. I am working on listening to my gut and opening my mouth, not in a b…tchy way but diplomatic. Example: with all the crazyiness of what was going on with the MM yesterday I had a first date with someone last night which went well. Today he asked me if on our next date we could just hang out at each others houses and watch a movie. UGGG. I paused and said, “I’m going to follow the advice i give my friends and say that I will be more comfortable going out someone when we’ve just met.” (pat on back–yippee!) He said “What ever U want.” phew. Thanks soooo much….
I meant to say go out somewhere. This was an internet date.
nysharon,
I’ve had the same problem with a guy I just started to see. He wanted us to hang out at his house and I told him no that I was not comfortable doing that. He kept insisting and I kept saying no. Yeah…I’m proud of that too.
Mariposa,
This guys is not respecting you or your boundaries by continuing to push, he also sounds like he is only interested in sex. I would see this as a major red flag and move on.
Gaynor,
Yeah…you might be right. I think sometimes I have a hard time seeing the red flags. He kept saying how he would respect me. How he was a virgin until he was 35 and he can hold back. Yeah…I don’t think I’m going to go out with him anymore.
What?????????????????? He’s a virgin at 35???? Do you think he’s lying or is he doing it for religious reasons?
He says that he’s a devout catholic. I’m not sure if I believe him though. He could just be feeding me a line. I don’t trust anybody anymore.
I hear you!!!
Is he a former priest? Are you religious as well?
No he’s not a former priest and I’m not that religious. I actually met him on the subway, so I had no idea he was so religious or so he says.
It seems like half the women on this site live in NYC.
Hon, that’s another thing to consider, one that’s extremely religious and one thats not. Just a thought.
Says a lot about the bozos we have to deal with here. So many of my female friends have difficulty finding normal men in this city.
I don’t live in NYC, but it’s just as bad.
Unfortunately, yes!!!
Hey Mariposa and NYSharon,
You are both going through strange and weird withdrawl. Leave it at that. No excuses. Just do what you know you have to do. I hope you can. We don’t need to read your failures over and over again. YOU can do this! Let’s read your successes’s afterirall. Best to you. TS.
Great ending to the series.
Thanks NML!! You are the best!!!
I have never experienced such exhaustive ‘relationship’ as with my ex-eum that I still, after several ‘break ups’ during several years and my firm decisiom to stay NC, I feel exhausted, messed up, sometimes anxious and sometimes even I have some kind of fear (I don’t know how to define this feeling) that this creep will try to contact me (each time somebody sends sms to me I feel sick thinking it’s him). There are moments when I still fell anger and hatred for him, all the more that I am not that kind of person to hate people and to have such negative emotion which are basically poisonous, and that makes me confused and discouraged because I expected to recover much faster. Why this process of recovery takes so long? I cannot figure that out.
sorry, the sentence should be: There are moments when I still fell anger and hatred for him, which disturbs me all the more as I am not that kind of person to hate people and to have such negative emotions which are basically poisonous, and that makes me confused and discouraged because I expected to recover much faster
HI Lilly~my guess is that the negative emotions you feel stem from legitimate anger. We don’t like to experience the anger but I believe there is a place and time. In fact, the only time the negative emotions are poisonous is when they’re repressed or glossed over. Getting mad (for me) was a huge step forward because even though we think we’ll stay mad or sad forever – we won’t. Get mad at the situation and the time / respect lost….but totally love yourself in the process. You deserve that =)
I think when there are successes we usually don’t feel the need to write them out. It’s when we’re feeling bad that we need to write more just to get through the tough period. Isn’t that what this site is about?
I agree mariposa…. when I need to vent or need support or am having a weak moment— I like to know that I have this site available to voice my feelings (whether negative or not) and know that I will not be judged but have others that understand and are there to support!
Thanks Karen! When I feel the most panicky is when I come to this site and read and write. It does help.
Lilly,
How long have you been NC? I know I wish I could go through the pain and forget about him, but unfortunately it’s not that easy. We have to go through the pain I think to learn from this experience. You’re right these relationships are very exhausting.
As a guy, I can’t believe women like you exist. Come on, we just don’t want to be with you any longer. We wait until someone better or more “interesting†comes along and then we move on. Most guys have already figured out with girls like you that we are NOT responsible for your actions. If we string you along time and again and you decide to put up with it, we know it!! If you allow us to have sex with you time and again – especially if we treat you like crap – but think we are committing to you, it’s your own damn fault for the pain you cause yourself when we decide it’s time to move on. You ladies sometimes think we have no right to move on. EVERYONE has that right. Face it, we lost interest in you – for whatever reason we wanted – and moved on. Period. Perhaps we found someone more intelligent, more attractive, more “fun†– we just know that we no longer wanted to be with you.
It’s good to know that men like Mike take no personal responsibility for DELIBERATELY stringing women along. It makes getting over those kinda guys soooooo much sweeter =) Kisses
These men are the ones I hate most, no personal insight, withoutta freaking care in the world, except taking what they want. Why would you want this guy as a father to your children? Thats why your personal boundaries, etc must be tough to see through the crap they speak when they first crawl up to you, so you can kick that ego into touch!!! where it belongs in the gutter. xxxxxx
Ever so often, I review my comments on this website and what stands out to me are the number of times that Twatman treated me poorly and the fact that I still stuck around because I hoped things would improve. In essence, I had no boundaries with this man. Since my first post in June 08, I’m still thinking about him and have been in contact for the last 4 weeks after having been on NC.
I longed for this time to be different, but I was cautious, so I didn’t give him my number. I wanted him to prove himself & win me over. He didn’t even try. I can’t take it anymore. I don’t want to re-read my post weeks from now and still be in this unhealthy, sad place.
I would never string someone along or hurt someone that I care about but apprently, the EUM has absolutely no qulams about engaging in shit*y behaviour with me.
And when one boundary is not enforced, others aren’t either. I should have insisted that he respect my time and called it off when he was perpetually late without apology – if he did show up.
But he definitely maintained his boundaries. He would not commit to the relationship,leave me alone, call me or spend time with. Those were HIS boundaries, twisted as they are. What’s worse thought, is that I threw MY boundaries out the door trying to make this “relationship” work. Madness, I know! I lost my happiness and I still don’t have the relationship that I want.
He has shown me exactly which way the land lies, to use NML’s term, by telling me that “I expect too much from him”. Asking for a phone call, quality time together, involvement in each others lives and a real committed relationship is just too much for him.
So I’ve reviewed my boundaries and made a physical list of what I will and will not accept, and topping the list is disrespect. I simply will not treat myself so badly anymore, and for what? A relationship that is dead on arrival?
As much as the jabs towards women posted by Mike stings, there is that element of truth in it, especially this part:
” If you allow us to have sex with you time and again – especially if we treat you like crap – but think we are committing to you, it’s your own damn fault for the pain you cause yourself when we decide it’s time to move.”
I’m emotionally tired and I am stopping this self destructive behaviour of loving a man who thinks that I expect too much when all I’m asking for is the basics.
I’m wondering why Mike is even on this site.
Wow, what a response. Funny how “Brad K” can post his thoughts but not another guy. Or how about John that basically said the same thing.
To metsgurl… hate to break it to you…. but YOU allow us to do that to you.
When ladies like you start to EXPECT, then that’s when the problem starts. If you would take us a face value – especially in the beginning, you would be better able to determine if we are suitable for you. Men will change – on their terms, and for the woman THEY want to be with. Simple as that. And I read the article regarding texting….. so let me be absolutely upfront about this….. If we text you – we want nothing to do with you other than sex (or “shagging” as I’ve seen it stated this site).
Mariposa.. I’m on this site because I am allowed to be.
Mike:
I guess its your arrogance that is coming across bad. While we appreciate the male perspective (especially one such as yourself) perhaps we could do a little without your rude and arrogant tone. There is a difference between being confident and arrogant. How about taking some responsibility like NML said?
I EXPECT for you to voice your opinions and your advice— I dont EXPECT for you to be rude!
How’s that for having boundries?
oh one more thing:
If you have an arrogant tone……unfortunately it takes away from the valuable information you have to offer because all we are now focused on is HOW you are communicating it and not what you are saying!
You ladies (and man) can take my posts as you like. The fact is, I am a guy that is telling you from a guys perspective, that if you get involved with a man that does not respect you from the beginning – as in blows off a date, does not call when he says, does not take an active interest in your life, (insert your example here), – and you continue to see this person, then your boundaries have already gone out with window. You can’t MAKE a man fall in love with you, date you or even contact you the proper way. We will contact you the way WE want to, but it’s up to you do with that information as you wish. Just because you decide to stick around and HOPE we will change, does not entitle you to bash a guy because he decides he wants to bail. What did you bring to the relationship in the beginning? Were you whining, complaining, have trust issues? We can sense that early on, in case you didn’t know that about us.
Wow Karen….. you equate being truthful with being Rude… how sad for you. You all want to figure out what’s wrong with us but when the truth is told, now all of a sudden we are RUDE.
Mike ,
I agree with the majority of your last post. But, if a man is purposely misleading a woman and telling her he is in love with her and that they are moving towards a relationship, how is that supposed to be interpreted. Thank God, I bailed quickly but the deceit on his part is unforgivable.
Honestly, you did come off as being a callous SOB. How would you feel if a man were treating your sister or mother in this manner? Just because the opportunity is there to abuse a relationship does not mean you have to do it. What happened to decency, kindness and respect? We all have the opportunities to mistreat people, thankfully the majority do not utilize this power, only the narcissistic ones do.
Gaynor…. I absolutely agree with you that when a MAN does that… he is a total A-Hole. The point I’m making is that a woman should be able to determine at some point when she is being strung along – and then take the appropriate action – which is to BAIL. Sure, there are men that do that to woman on a constant basis, but 1) these men are certainly aware they are doing it, and 2) the woman allows them to do it. I mean come on, if I told you over and over again that i would change and never did… how many times would it take for you to realize that I’m not going to? It should not take months or God forbid, YEARS to determine that a guy is a complete jackass. But since I’ve posted today, most of the responses have still been blaming the man for his actions and that’s not entirely accurate. If we cheat, lie, screw your best friend, are are MARRIED…. jesus, leave us the hell alone. We are not worthy of any of the love that YOU want to give us. We aren’t ready for that level of commitment so please don’t put yourself through the torment. With men, ACTIONS really do speak louder than any WORDS that come out of our mouth. We are quite capable of talking out both sides of our mouth. We will say what you want to hear to 1) get you to quit nagging and 2) try to get you to sleep with us – especially in the beginning. However, at some point we will change and put that effort into a relationship – OF OUR CHOOSING. That’s when we will go from an EUM to a decent guy. Just please don’t screw yourself up by waiting for that to happen. I don’t mean you personally, any woman in general.
Mike
Uhm………I Guess you missed my whole point it isn’t what you’re saying (which most of us have agreed is valuable information from a valuable perspective) its HOW YOU ARE SAYING It!
And truth be told (as you put it) I agree with Gaynor…. the deceit on the part of the person who KNOWS that they are taking advantage is unforgivable. Like I said………. take some responsibility as we all agree that we need to take responsibility for being involved with A**clowns. It seems you can’t do that— maybe you like this type of attention?? Typical of an EUM. May I ask… what made you come to this site? You must have been searching for something…..
Mike,
I agree with you completely!
A man did treat my sister like that… she actually posted here “chloe” if anyone has read her posts. She’s going thru complete hell and I would have loved to kick this guy’s ass all over, but what would that do for her? Nothing. I can’t tell you how many times she has cried to me about it and I absolutely feel bad for her – christ sake – that’ my sister. But she does know that she allowed that shit to happen even after EVERYONE told her to dump his ass. And instead, he dumped her. Couldn’t take the “drama” – of what??? Her wanting a “decent” relationship. Hell, for 2 years nobody knew the a-hole existed in her life because he would never come around her friends or our family. That’s why I’m posting.
Chloe is good people – even if she is my sister and you think I’m a complete prick. No woman deserves the crap I’ve read, but he didn’t force it on her, didn’t hold a gun to her head, etc. She wanted him more than he wanted her. She knows that and she’s working thru it.
It would have been nice to kick his ass, though
OK, here’s the thing. I don’t think that Mike is being rude – he’s being brutally honest. There is a difference. I do brutal honesty it’s just that this is my site and most people are prepared to take it. Mike’s a bit like ‘the enemy’ because he’s ‘one of them’ and he’s saying it how it is. Could he dress it up a little and not be quite so brutally honest? – Yes probably but I suspect that the essence of what he’s saying would be lost. That’s actually pretty hard sometimes to stomach but he is actually saying things that need to be said – he’s just not putting any fluff around it.
This is how a lot of guys in these type of relationships think. As women, we can’t stop dodging the bullet and wondering why a guy like this didn’t behave better – he just didn’t and the best thing you can do with a man like Mike is process the true meaning of his actions and run.
It is not someone else’s responsibility to to enforce your boundaries – it’s up to you. These guys can’t abuse a relationship or a situation that has boundaries and that is not being repeatedly encouraged.
These men have no responsibility to you and feel no responsibility to you, which means normal rules of thumb of expectation go out the window.
As for Gaynors guy, he is up in another level of assclowndom because he is seeking to be purposefully mislead. The key here is that yes he’s most definitely an asshole, but you know it and you’re out – that makes you someone who is acting on their responsibility to themselves.
At the end of the day Gaynor, no matter what he said, his actions did not match so what he said didn’t matter. And yes, thank goodness you’re out of it.
Mike
I feel for your sister. And yes you are right. For the most part I think we all tend to beat ourselves up for not having seen the things that you mention sooner. I guess thats why we are on here…visiting this site. It is filled with valuable information and advice to help us from ever being involved in relationships or accepting behavior that may intrinsically know is bad for us but feel stuck or too confused or because of lack of self esteem are having a hard time getting out. I guess some of us see it sooner than others!
I wish I had a brother like you who could have come to kick my EUM’s a**!
Just seen the other comments that came through. Wow – you’re Chloe’s brother and I understand why you need that honesty. What an awful situation and hopefully (and I’m sure you do it in that gruff brotherly supportive way) you can help her move past this. I found your last para about her wanting him very poignant and on point – thank you for sharing.
NML, Thank goodness!!!!!!!!
I completely agree with NML. Mike is being brutally honest. It is just hard for all of us to hear. We so often put all the blame on the men. How could he do this or he did this horrible thing but we all tolerated it. That was our part in these relationships. We stayed and took the crap. We are responsible for ourselves. So all they questions about why did he do this or why did he contact me again – they all have the same answer because we let them, we allowed them to do whatever or to come back. We all, myself included, need to stop concentrating on them and focus on us. Why would we allow this behaviour and what can we do to change ourselves so we never experience men like this again and to be better protected.
Amen Gaynor~
WE DO allow for a man to treat us like crap….so I’m not the least bit delusional. I do find it interesting though, as Gaynor eloquently stated above, that men purposly mislead / lie / deceive women and then have the balls to say “As a guy, I can’t believe women like you exist”. Don’t think that I don’t appreciate an arrogant man’s insight though….please keep posting….I can use and handle the truth
Its funny because even hating them or being angry at these men (or women) keeps us stuck to them and they to an extent still have some power over us. I guess it is a process. I think we recognize (atleast I do) that I played a huge role in allowing things to happen and for not standing up for myself sooner! If anything– I think even holding on to anger isn’t good (Im not saying im going to run and be his best friend tomorrow) but I do realize that at first– I needed to blame him……then from the info on this site etc… I learned that I couldn’t entirely put the blame on him. I did allow it to happen… i did only see what I wanted to see…. I didn’t have strong boundries…. I did keep betting on “potential”. Does anyone else think that hating an exEUM is also not healthy and keeps us stuck? Im sure its part of the process…. but at some point– isn’t the goal to just feel nothing and not be emotionally attached to them anymore in any way? Meaning that we are no longer affected with whether they call or not, with whether we see them or not, with what they are doing…not doing… etc…?? I know that when I absolutely no longer think about this man or care about what he is doing or not doing and that I can look at the relationship and no longer feel hurt by it is when I can honestly say I am completely over this. Is that wrong?
Anger is part of the grieving process. I think it goes denial, anger, depression, acceptance. I think we all feel angry but eventually we get over it and accept that it is over and accept our part in the situation.
Look, you should blame “us” when we don’t treat you right – in the beginning. But continuing to put up with that for any length of time thereafter – is just asking for trouble. Chloe just read my last few posts – thinks I was a bit too harsh. I’m a guy, college educated, good job, but I’m still a guy. Eloquence in writing is NOT my strong suit. Please ladies, men think they DESERVE the hottest, smartest, best “babe” that is out there. So why shouldn’t you ladies think the same thing about YOURSELVES? Telling me to basically “drop dead” when I started posting is what you should do the next time a guy treats you poorly. This site does give great advice – when you decide to use it in your life. Breakups suck, they are supposed to hurt (hence the word “break”) but wanting a guy back that treated you like crap is NUTS!! Just plain NUTS. And we will try to weasel out way back in, but usually only when we have no other option ( and yes, that is an absolute FACT). If you don’t believe anything I’ve written so far, you can believe that last sentence. And if we get back in, we will take what we want, and then disappear faster than you can say “When can i see you again?”
Karen,
That is the place you want to be. Indifference is good!
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