Often when I speak or correspond with people that are struggling to come to terms with reconciling the reality of someone with the perception that they had of them, or the relationship not working out, it becomes apparent that at some point they recognised that they’d made an error in judgement but proceeded anyway.
When you don’t admit that you’ve got it wrong, you end up staying in a relationship long past its sell-by-date, adapting yourself and/or trying to force the other party to change and adopt the behaviours, characteristics and values that you want them to, so that you get to be ‘right’ and avoid what you perceive as the vulnerability of admitting a mistake.
In life, we receive ‘feedback’ both through actions and words which includes what goes unsaid and undone that alert us to an ‘error’ or ‘discrepancy’. It’s processing this feedback and acting upon it that helps to build self-esteem, confidence, and faith in you. You then know that even in the face of uncomfortable realisations and decisions, you’ve always got your back.
Admitting when you’ve got it wrong frees you up to know when you’re right much like admitting when you feel bad frees you up to recognise when you feel good.
Failing to process this feedback causes you to become trapped in denial which opens you up to further pain and compounds the original ‘mistake’ in a snowball effect. It then means that even if the relationship ends, because you put so much effort into dodging the mistake, you become afraid of trusting yourself, and so either end up avoiding relationships to minimise the risk or repeating the pattern in the hope that ‘this time’ they’ll correct the original mistake you’ve worked so hard to avoid admitting and you’ll be validated – trying to be the exception to the rule.
This is why so many people go out with same person, different package – toxic type. It’s like righting the wrongs of the past – if one coughs up and validates, it’ll pay off all the bad debt from all the previous like some jacked up slot machine. You can then say “I knew it was them! See, I was right!”
Not admitting that you’ve made a mistake is like going to a level crossing, recognising your error, realising that you have enough time to turn back and get out of the way, but instead saying “Eff it! The train needs to stop or move.” It’s like making a poor investment, realising that that it’s bankrupt and instead of cutting your losses, throwing more money at it so that you avoid admitting that you made a bad investment. Only thing is, you’re still making a bad investment.
You are human. You love, you want to be loved and you’re also prone to mistakes. Everyone makes them, even people you think are perfect and ‘better than’ you.
When you get indicators that how you perceive things to be is incorrect or needs some ‘adjustment’, it’s like flags going up. At the first or even few flags, while it may be painful to acknowledge, the damage can be limited.
The more flags that you pass through, the greater your mistake, the more distanced you become from recognising the original issue plus you become entangled in the mistake and you can struggle to work out what’s what, especially if you’re the type of person that becomes a Siamese twin and thinks you’re feeling and acting for the two of you.
Much like when I find that people dig their heels in and stay in a relationship for years and then they recognise how much time has passed and then think “I’ve put in too much to go now. It’s 1/3/5/10/X years – that’s just too big to walk away from and I’ve given so much” – this is how mistake dodgers think.
When you look at the implications of the mistake now you think “Oh my God! I’ve come too far and accepted so much! I know I made an error in judgement but I continued because I saw so much potential in them and hoped they’d appreciate my love, so to admit that I made a mistake about that too is just too big.”
People who don’t like admitting they’ve made a mistake when they realise that the person is not what they thought or the relationship that they expected isn’t on offer, get caught up in blaming themselves for the other persons actions while at the same time giving themselves a hard time and busting their proverbial balls.
The thing is, you’re not responsible for Other Peoples Behaviour. You’re also not, for example, responsible for things they say they are and that they promise they’ll do (Future faking) that don’t materialise. That would be controlling the uncontrollable and thinking you’re capable of Jedi mind tricks.
You’re only responsible for you. You can only influence your actions. You can only enable existing inclinations on their part – you can’t ‘give’ them a sudden desire to be an asshole.
The mistake becomes “too big” because by refusing to listen to yourself or to feedback that you’re getting from the person and your relationship, by busting through those flags and shutting out and overriding concerns, you now feel complicit.
This is why when you do eventually leave, you feel so angry with yourself for continuing and not doing right by you. It’s incredibly painful and feels like you sacrificed too much, especially if you stayed for a very long time. You may struggle to forgive yourself but it would be a mistake not to forgive you. Grow out of the mistake instead of flogging yourself.
The truth is, with all the best will in the world, you’re not always able to find out immediately who someone is and what their true motives are. That’s why dating is a discovery phase for you to do the due diligence with your eyes and ears open while you’re having a good time. Dating doesn’t equal relationship or a commitment and you lessen the magnitude of what you perceive to be a bone crushing mistake if you’re not only aware of code amber and red behaviour, but you treat yourself like a trustworthy friend, listen, and act upon feedback.
If you’re going to date, shag, or have a relationship at any cost, the cost will be you and the errors will clock up.
It really is OK to admit that you’ve made an error in judgement – it keeps you on the path of doing the right thing by you. Trying to force people to do what you want or becoming a Transformer and accommodating crap so you can dodge a mistake is just too much effort. It makes something far bigger than it needs to be. The sky won’t fall down. You’ll live to fight another day. You’ll live to love again. But you can never know what you can be or do if you limit yourself by refusing to admit when you’ve erred because you never learn anything, you remain trapped in denial and your mistakes become false truths because you keep living them when you could have moved on from them.
Your thoughts?
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It took me a long time to admit I made a error in judgement (being the fall back girl) and I was humiliated by my actions but once I realized that I only had control over myself and his actions (cheating) were not a reflection of me it got easier to forgive myself and start my journey towards healing.
Yes you do have to love yourself and for me that took time. I was so wrapped up in wanting his love that I became a door mat and lost myself but once I let it all go it was like a weight being lifted off my back and even more important off my heart.
Amen MaryC! In my case, it was future faking/general-extreme douchebaggery, but I wasted a lot of time blaming myself for his actions instead of just saying, “You know what? Bad judgement call on my part. He clearly sucks.” You are totally right, it IS a huge weight off of our shoulders
“You know what? Bad judgement call on my part. He clearly sucks.”
Haha – absolutely! Why on earth didn’t anyone tell us it is that simple (until Nat came along)?!! Why is everyone nowadays a pseudo pshycho-analyst, trying to understand why a dumb-arse acts like a dumb-arse? Why don’t people just accept that they’re dumb-arses and move on?
I think it’s something particular to the modern age and all these self help books about mars and venus and how men need secluded caves and blah blah blah!
Love it Minky!
I was sitting there ananlyzing a jerk and then finally I said to myself, “We are not married, we have no children together…hell, we don’t even have any mutual friends. Why, oh why does it matter why he’s an ass? Keep it moving sister.” Oy, the cave theory annoys me too haha! Not one of my friends who is in a great relationship has ever, ever mentioned the men they are with pulling back like that. I say, if they want to go spelunking in their Cave of Dysfunction…let them stay there!
“Spelunking in their Cave of Dysfunction” LMAO!!! That is priceless. I’ve spent this week trying to stay NC with the AC while he’s blowing hotter than the wind in Hell… and its doing my head in. Thank you Natasha for making me smile.
Glad you enjoyed Tiamat! I know when I first went NC, a good laugh was the best medicine. Good for you for taking such an important step – it’s not easy, so congrats!! Stay strong sister
So true! I am so tired of these Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus crap! Men need their cave and rubberband and blah blah blah! We are from Earth and women also need their space. When poeple in general want to act like idiots, it has nothing to do with gender…better yet, look at how they were raised and the tyoe of relationships they have with others…that’s a better indication than those stupid books!
“but once I let it all go it was like a weight being lifted off my back”
Yes, MaryC – exactly! It’s like thank the Lord in heaven (oh, no, that should be Natalie!!) I don’t have to worry about this anymore! I am allowed to stop now! Freeeeeeeeeedom!
I have been through the disbelief, the denial, the pain and tears for what I hoped I had but didnt – and today I found myself at the ‘shame’ stage – ashamed that i ignored the flags…44 year old and not recognising an EUM for 5/12… how stupid, naive, self absorbed and deluded am I? Ashamed that I had got carried away and thought I had found my soulmate, that I had told friends I had met someone special…and so ashamed to admit to them all I was so wrong. I was surprised though – it helped to be honest with my workmates who were all so happy for me when I was glowing and thinking I was in love. One even felt responsible because she had argued I should be patient and give him time when I started having misgivings.
They told me it wasn’t my fault, it is natural to hope for the best, it is necessary to go into a new relationship with an open heart, be prepared to trust and risk getting hurt…. they told me it is his problem not mine, that I deserve and will find better, not to waste time trying to work it out – I will never know. They were so supportive today, didn’t judge me, they empathised, and cared. I need to stop punishing myself, and forgive myself.
I need to be a friend to me too.
Sounds like you have good workmates. That’s a lucky thing.
Nat, I think I should send you my picture – with the strapline “Mistake Dodger Extraordinaire” so you can attach it to this article!
I am the living, walking personification of every single sentence. But hey ho…at least now I get it – and yes, I know exactly when I felt this Mr EU was a mistake – about 3 months in! But I went on ahead like I had a magic wand up my jumper. I didn’t.
But I did stop being mad with myself only about two months ago (about 6 months after initial NC) when I realised too that even that was a waste of my energy!
The only thing I can salvage now from the wreckage is me. And I am worth saving. I see that. I just want me back now. I was out on a bad loan for way too long.
You are a friend to yourself because you left the relationship. I married him and realized he’s WRONG for me, and I looked past my red flags early on because I wanted to be in a relationship.
Ugh! on me. I have learned my lesson and went through the same feelings you’re having. Please be gentle with yourself. The day I thought about him – fleetingly – and didn’t feel any emotion was when I knew I was over him.
“But making romantic mistakes is how we learn about ourselves…This is how we learn where we fit in the world. This is how we acquire the wounds that grant us entry into the sober fellowship of humanity…” Cary Tennis
JJ, I know exactly what you mean.
It’s already so hard when you’re in your 40s – you get that clock-ticking feeling, the fatal ‘last chance’ thinking sets in, and on top of all this you’ve got your perimenopausal mood swings ANYWAY that just make it all worse!
I too have made an utter prize fool of myself, and suffered accordingly, but you know what? Once you get through it and get round to accepting that you made a mistake, and that you were perhaps at least in part responsible for that pain, it’s a huge relief.
So don’t beat yourself up. Just give yourself time to heal, one day at a time. It DOES get better, believe me!
PS who’d have thought that heartbreak could still be so painful when you’re not a teenager any more?? I wish someone had told me about this before!
Ashamed to say I didn’t leave the relationship – but I did look him in the face and tell him I was feeling uneasy, and concerned that we were seeing things differently, we weren’t really in a relationship, and he hadn’t ever invited me to his home. For all I knew he could be married (he isn’t – i know that 100%) and he laughed, and said ‘oh yes, my wife thinks I am a travelling salesman’ I did it with grace, and some humour, no floods of tears (just one or two) or drama, and he held me and said ‘fair points’, (not much else though) stayed all night, tender and loving as ever …. and I never saw him again….no explanation, no sorry, just vanished permanently this time. So little regard – I am astounded really. I shouldnt apply my standards to him though, just know that someone with such cowardice was never ever my match.
jj
there’s nothing tender or loving about holding you, spending the night and then buggering off in the morning. that’s despicable!
What is love? Surely it’s to stick by someone and build a life with them though thick and thin. Affection, compliments, nice words, short periods of togetherness are the stock in trade of the EUM. That’s just what they do. They have to keep disappearing because it’s bloody hard work pretending to love someone when you don’t They need a break poor dears.
It’s easily done but we mustn’t suspend judgement just because someone is nice to us.
Grace:
“They have to keep disappearing because it’s bloody hard work pretending to love someone when you don’t”
OMG! Yes. Of course.That’s it. And all the affection and kindnesses that he showed me… I knew it was fleeting, vacuous, fickle…non-sustainable. I knew. Sometimes after some very affectionate moments and sharing he would then make the most seemingly innocent remark about his plans or his aspirations and my stomach would drop like a brick because none of them ever included me. I understood very well that I did not figure in his plans. At all. And I also understood that it was pointless making any reply to these ‘throw away’ remarks other than those you’d give to any other human being saying the same things because at those moments I completely got that we were not on the same planet, never mind the same page. It made me feel so empty, so lonely.
Why do THEY not notice their own so blatant contradictions? Surely they must notice! Surely they must at least be aware that WE notice??… To me it was so blatantly obvious – he’d say one thing one moment, contradict himself the next, do one thing one moment, contradict himself the next… How do they do it without so much as a flinch or a blush? I swear my EU is not daft by far yet he seemed genuinely utterly oblivious to his own blatant mixed messages. (Not that it matters. It doesn’t. But it’s curious)
I am 44 too…what the heck are these our mid life crisis’s? Personally, I would have rather gotten a cute BMW convertable and been done with it! Water under the bridge now….acknowledge your mistake, learn from your mistake, don’t make it again and move on.
I don’t know – maybe a higher percentage of men in their forties who have been hurt are seriously flawed than women our age who have been hurt?
Maybe we carry our baggage better? Forgive, try to move on, are prepared to risk being hurt again and they are less so?
I can’t see me ever being so lacking boundaries again that I will let anyone be even slightly spiteful, rude, hurtful or abusive – it is the silent EUM – the clever one who doesn’t break any promises (doesnt make any) doesn’t tell any lies, who is charm itself and seems to be in love when he is with you, but so distant when he is not, that I am vulnerable to. That is the one I will have to be wary of this time, I recognise an AC – I had those boundaries, this is a new one on me.
Natalie!!
Thank you, this really cheered me up.
I have just admitted I have made a massive mistake and it is OK. You may remember but I was in the relationship from hell for nearly 3 years, with someone who boundary pushed beyond belief, abused me, criticised me, bullied me, controlled me, played mind games, broke up with me more times than I can remember, his list of offences was endless. He was the boomerang! And I took him back every time. Because, I know in my head I wasnt ready to let go.
Recently I took him back for the last time, he promised me the world, said he would go on medication for his anxiety, marriage, life time love, the works. Said he would never let me go, that I was his everything. The girl of his dreams. That he would do everything in his power to change. He really went to town. I had love letters, daily texting, more future faking than hot dinners, and despite everything he still managed to turn back into the same hurtful arsehole he always has, and always will be. He said he feels differently now and that its not true love, It was only a few days prior to that I was the love of his life and his soulmate!! This was Sunday, I havent heard from him since. Apparently im unhinged and he just cant handle some things about me (because I get emotional when I see that ive been let down… again)!! In a way im glad I went back, because I now see him for what he really is, and yes it bloody hurts to be sold a fairytale and end up with a very aching heart, but I know now I will be OK.
THIS IS WHO HE IS. He will never change.
I made a massive error of judgement. I believed all his bullshit. I can see clearly now. And I refuse to feel shit about myself a minute longer.
Back to counselling for me, im looking forward to a new life, without the drama, and the constant upset. Looking after myself.
Thank you again Natalie. You are amazing!!
XXXX
The best post yet. The best, best and best. So true to me right now. Thanks
Its even better when you get to the OPPS! WTF was I thinking and have a really good laugh. You will love again, you will live again, the sky doesn’t fall down and you know when you can laugh at it – you have gotten through it. WOW really screwed up that time – won’t do that again! I am not that woman anymore. LOL oh hell no!
We broke up a year ago. I can admit it – I understand what happened – I forgive myself – I know he was an EUM – no contact for 4 months ……. Why am I having such a hard time being happy?
It just makes me SO MAD that he deceived me into thinking our relationship was something it wasn’t. The thing is I CAN NOT forgive him for being such a self center person & destroying my trust in guys.
ElleJaeP….I felt the same way about my ex until I did forgive truly forgive and as we all know forgiving isn’t about them or condoning their appaling behavior its about you. Its about releasing all that hurt and anger because without that we tend to stay stuck and focused on them. You said its only been NC for 4 months and that really isn’t alot of time yet and I suspect your forgiveness isnt quite really there yet and how could it be you’ve been hurt and rightly deserve to be mad.
When I was going through what you’re going through I tried to remember what I had read somewhere….”Its not time that heals its what you do with the time”. Stay focused on yourself and don’t beat yourself up everyone deals with this kind of thing in their own way and in their own time. There isn’t a timeline for healing a broken heart if there was we’d all just sit back and count the days.
I can’t say if you’ll ever trust again, I hope you will but you never know for sure. But be open if someone comes along even though it might take a leap of faith don’t let this guy keep you stuck, way too much power for anyone to have over you. Stay strong.
Oh my God! This post could not come at a better time. I was with someone for four years that was drama, trauma and misery ever day. I then went straight to seeing a guy that I dated years ago. He was everything my ex wasn’t and I thought he was the one, the soul mate. After four months I see that we don’t have compatable life styles. He works nights, wants to stay up drinking till late. I work a regular 9-5. He has called me high maintance and a selfish bitch twice while in an argument. And all because I wanted to leave a bar when he didn’t. So, I’m selfish. This was Friday night and we have seen each other since then but I think we both know its just not right. He will tell me he loves me but he needs time to think. Well, think about what? I see the red flags and like the other woman who posted, I’ve told all my friends how wonderful he is, the say you are so much happier now. I was at first but not now. I need to end it once and for all and move on. Admit I was wrong about him and just let it go.
Noelle, I was in a very similar situation just recently and let it drag on. Get out clean and trust yourself. The more drama that starts occurring the worse you feel. I too started getting called a bitch and a wack tard. The issues that bothered me were valid ones and I tried to talk about them like an adult but only got ignored or belittled I started regressing to the drama queen to be heard. Mistake. It doesn’t work. If he is calling you a selfish bitch, he is not a nice guy. It’s only the beginning of the disrespect he will dish out.
Thank you, once again, for another valuable post! Exactly what I’ve gone through and needed to hear. I am proud that while the first time I was devastated when the guy left (via E mailing “I’m too busy to see you any more” (! after a year and a half) but who later came back with excuses of overwhelm and apologies for his behavior and how he really wanted to try again, I gave him “another try”. Before long I saw he was playing the same EUM, rubber-band-man games – coming close, then disappearing, coming close, then disappearing – while always being very “physically glad to see me” in the “relationship” – ha, ha – duh! Guys I knew thought I was nuts to try again, that he’d broken some big time rules for how you should treat a woman. While I now feel rather foolish to have tried again, I did, but only for a few months. I can no longer underestimate the pull of a man who is intelligent, gorgeous and fun – who I have a lot in common with – it is hard to admit that despite all of that, they are not available and treat you erratically and at their whim, so we continue on not wanting to see the truth. That was me, anyways. It is much easier when an Assclown displays flat-out objectionable behavior, of which I’ve had a few – mean, cheating, substance abuse, etc., then when they are “nice” and whom all your friends think is a “doll”. As you aptly post, sometimes we cannot know what someone is about for awhile – and I don’t want to be so paranoid that I’m not willing to give someone a chance if they appear to deserve it. The error I will correct is not falling head over heels before I actually know someone, going forward. To quit making up a story line in my head because someone is charming and nice to me. Also, being very careful to discern that “dating” is indeed not a relationship. And that it takes a LONG time to get to know someone and watch their behavior in different circumstances. While I learn, I will also be easy on myself, and glad I did not keep being at his beck and call for years and years.
Hey Nat, I got all excited thinking this might be an article on … oooh, they are not EU but, as you say in “why men run hot and cold” actually in love with me and a mess because of the emotions they are experiencing… I had an amazing 3 month ‘thing’ where after about 4 weeks he started rushing off, failing to follow thru with plans, avoided intimacy after sex by timing it late (fall asleep) or rushing off, etc. Phone calls turned to texts and he went to events at his brothers and friends but I never met any of them nor got invited. My gut feeling was something is wrong and googling why men run hot and cold led me to here. I play all the rules over-analysing, taking on board where I was EU and found it hard to be open, and so it is a very grey area for me. Why couldn’t I ask… why don’t you let me meet your family and friends, as he met mine? I think maybe me being too timid and scared of rejection allowed opportunities to pass where we could have pushed thru ‘stuff’ and achieved intimacy. Everything came to a crunch at an event where I achieved a success in my career and he was very aloof about it (long story!) but it hurt! I have established NC 2 days ago, as stated I want more in r/s than crumbs…. it is so hard. I keep thinking I can somehow fix it up. At the same time I do realises I made an error of judgment… very confused. Great article. Love paragraphs 3 and 4, they are affirming. THank you Nat
love bites
“I think maybe me being too timid and scared of rejection allowed opportunities to pass where we could have pushed thru ‘stuff’ and achieved intimacy.”
Forget that, when someone starts disappearing after 4 weeks, they’re not interested in pushing through stuff or achieving intimacy. Granted, through expert game playing (my previous speciality) you could drag the relationship out for a few more months or years if you’re really “good” . You could even get married. But one day you’ll realise all you’ve got is a house of cards. That you built yourself.
NC is the correct decision. Good job.
love bites – similar story for me – I really hoped that my EUM was really just afraid of being hurt – and he wanted to take things slowly. He didn’t tick all the AC boxes – he didnt push for sex early in the relationship, he was very gentle and respectful and thoughtful, remembered lots of details about me that showed he listened well. BUT distant in that we didnt keep in touch between dates. He didnt make plans. He didnt meet my friends, or I his. He loved being in my home, my bed, but never took me to his. I thought all sorts – he had me on some sort of pedestal, he thought I was too good for him, I made loads of excuses for him. But I was deluded. He was managing my expectations. He was teaching me how he was going to be. He was never ever going to let me in – doesnt matter why. He started NC when I gently questioned why we weren’t progressing…. I am afraid of how I would feel if he gets in touch, but every day he fades a little… and I see a little more clearly that there were LOADS of flags – but I chose to ignore them because I wanted him. Or I wanted my version of him, which is unfair, manipulative and controlling of me. I feel sad for him, he is a good father (though he never married either of his kids mothers – flag) good man in so many other ways that matter, I don’t think he truly realises he is EUM.
It took me years to realize that I had an ability to judge the situation that I am supposed to USE. It was more like: MY judgment? What’s that?
Some guy would just come along or I’d cross his path, and he’d show interest. If he gave me that weird, alarmed, why-are-you-looking-at-me-like-that feeling then I would get curious and let him know I was available. If we got to a dating stage, almost immediately I would start worrying that I would disappoint him. Worry about HIS judgment. And onward from there.
There was never any “evaluation” stage. Not until the fallout from the second-last ex plunged me into a desire to end my pain that put me on psychiatric watch. After that, I aimed to give guys a good look-see, kind of kick the tires, before getting involved.
I did that with the last ex, who, alas, was also an AC. I took what felt like a long time to get to know him, but at that point didn’t know my own values well enough to know what to look for. I definitely made an error in judgment, even though I tried to assess. It was awful, asking myself throughout that relationship if I was judging “correctly.” And having a sense that I wasn’t, but not knowing that judgment was deciding for myself what was a mistake (for me) and what was a good decision (for me).
I am so happy now to be at a point where I expect to make mistakes, so I can factor that into how I live my life and how I approach people. Trying to avoid mistakes, and being frightened of making mistakes (usually because my interior voice used to hurt me mercilessly for making them), is – as NML has put it, I think – “operating out of fear.”
Mag
“I did that with the last ex, who, alas, was also an AC. I took what felt like a long time to get to know him, but at that point didn’t know my own values well enough to know what to look for. I definitely made an error in judgment, even though I tried to assess. It was awful, asking myself throughout that relationship if I was judging “correctly.”
This was me with my recent near -miss EUM. He showed interest, something no man had done in so long. I wanted it to be real but I was cautious after my ex-EUM. So I took a year to get to know him, even thought I was doing everything right (not seeming too eager, not clingy, giving him “space” and time to make a move, not over investing myself emotionally). It took a while, but the amber flags started to sprout and I figured I’d just keep a safe distance and observe, not judge him yet. I was so proud of myself. But when the amber turned red, all I could/can think was “what the hell is wrong with me that I stuck around even to observe?” . Why after what I went through before did I not just run at the 1st amber flag? I am disappointed and sad that this non relationship never worked, but I’m more sad and disappointed in myself for continuing to be attracted to EUM. It took me 7 years after the split with my ex to really feel or want to feel something for another man. What I’ve realized is that I took those 7 years to get over my ex when what I really should have been doing was working through the reasons for my attraction to these guys, and my own EU issues. Getting over the ex doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve gotten over your issues. Now I feel stupid that I over evaluated my progress, yet also relieved I didn’t let this go as far as it could have.
Mag,
You said,
“I definitely made an error in judgment, even though I tried to assess. It was awful, asking myself throughout that relationship if I was judging “correctly.” And having a sense that I wasn’t, but not knowing that judgment was deciding for myself what was a mistake (for me) and what was a good decision (for me).”
You aptly described me in my last go round attempt at a relationship. It’s tough putting what we learn into action without the self esteem enough to back it up. It has been a good lesson. I am still letting fear over ride my judgement.
Feels like so much of getting on well in life is finding that balance and confidence that gives you a sense of just how much information to gather before making a decision – not jumping too soon to conclusions, nor holding off way after you’ve been presented with enough evidence to convict a felon to see *if* you *might* be wrong.
I never realized how much I have wanted guarantees in life before committing. I have wanted to be sure and to have absolutely no hesitation, which is impossible. So then I guess I’d just pick people who would for sure let me down, as no one could NOT let me down when I was looking for a no-risk, perfectly-everything man. No wonder I didn’t trust my own judgment: something inside knew I’d never get what I wanted.
Now I make mistakes, and they’re forgivable. He, whoever he is, will make mistakes. I can stop looking for perfection, and start asking how much info I need before I can trust that his mistakes aren’t going to be of the oops-my-penis-slipped-into-another-woman or oops-my-lies-aren’t-convincing-you or oops-I-took-you-for-my-blowup-doll kind.
That said, hope I don’t have to make too many more big mistakes in the man-picking department before I get it right!
JJ, like you I am almost 44, thought I had found my soul mate… yeah feel a real fool….!! Have you reached that place where you are your own friend? David Schnarch talks about other-validated intimacy, which leads to conflict sooner or later, and self-validated allows you to stay grounded… I make excuses my EUM acted cos of being in love (makes logical sense) and we passed to the next stage of intimacy which scares the crap out of me, that ‘we’ can fix it up… but deep down, the lack of congruency, etc… I can’t see how if it was ok to treat me like that, that it wouldn’t slip back if i went back with him….
yep i should do a bit of work on loving me – i am confident in myself in a lot of ways, but I think having an absent father made me always desperate for affection and validation from men – I was a very attractive/cute/demure/ young woman, and have had loads of men in my life, all sorts of shapes and sizes, ACs, ok ones, substance/alcohol probs x 2, (Florence wasn’t really me – I do that for a living – but I persevered for years with those two) I had never had anyone treat me like he did – either the good bits or the bad bits – my first out and out EUM. I honestly for a wee while thought it was because I am less attractive than I used to be – what crap.
So yes, I have learned at last that if I can care about me first, have boundaries, stop being so damned nice and accomodating and forgiving of behaviours I would tell my friends to reject, I may start to appear like someone who should be treated with regard.
JJ,
I’ve read every post of yours on this thread. And as much as they all resonate with me completely, this last paragraph seals it. I need to get where you all ‘are’ and I’m close, I’m just not ready to believe that someone who has lied and bs’d me for months on end has in fact done exactly that. Is it all really a lie? And if so, why does my self esteem hinge on HIS balance?
Thank you for your wisdom and strength. I will get there; I have to. This is just killing me, I fear.
thank you Brenda –
but I can’t pretend I have all the answers – I can’t quite believe that my EUM was a ‘bad man’ – and tbh – for me – I think I will cope better if I believe he wasn’t. He just didn’t have it in him to be vulnerable, he is EUM, and there is nothing I could have done differently that would have resulted in him NOT being EUM. All that would have been different if I had better boundaries in place is that I would have walked away after the first month. Instead I continued pinning my hopes on ‘he is just cautious’ he is’ just taking it slowly’ .That would have been ok if he had communicated that, and we had consistency and gradual progress… but he didn’t – and we didn’t. I just wanted him so badly – I ignored all the flags.
If I had boundaries, I would be in less pain – I would have invested less. If I had trusted and cared about me, I would feel less ashamed. If I had been less accomodating and forgiving – less manipulative really – he would still have left/it would still be over – but I would have my dignity intact. So its about doing what works. Saves time, pain, and dignity. On the plus side, I found BR and all of you, and I feel like 30 years of making mistakes with men might be coming to an end…. I really do feel like I have made a huge shift in my head. I am nervous about trying again, but excited to see if I can put all I have learned into practice x
JJ, your job isn’t to villianise him because oddly, while we can make enough excuses to make an unavailable person that’s not treating us too great into Catch of the Century, it’s actually not that easy to slam someone into the bad pile unless you’re willing to play victim. Why? Because if you start down the ‘bad’ route, you also have to acknowledge your complicity.
It’s not about good man vs bad man. Every single person here that is pursuing unavailable people is unavailable themselves and as far as I know, you’re not bad people.
It’s about accepting that it’s over, which means accepting the good, bad, and indifferent feelings that come with that, and also the good and bad and somewhere in between realisations that come with that and working them through and applying the lessons.
You are too focused on him. If you’d just accept that you made a mistake and deal with it, forgive yourself and commit to applying the lessons and living and dating with your self-esteem in tow, you’d be over this man far quicker. You can’t change what’s happened – you can only affect what could happen by breaking the pattern and not continuing in relationship insanity and loving blindly.
When you don’t admit that you’ve got it wrong, you end up staying in a relationship long past its sell-by-date…
How true, I would not admit I got it wrong until recently and because I have finally owned up that I made a huge mistake, it has stopped me trying to be the exception to the rule.
I knew from the beginning I was making a huge mistake and I look back when I was deciding which way to go I wonder why I chose the way I did.
I think I thought this will be short lived and it be good to have some fun.
Well this fun got me hooked and ended up going on for four years with me bending over backwards to be that exception, it led to me devaluing myself, having disrespect for him and myself and further devaluing myself by returning again and again him rejecting me not once but twice. Part of it also his subtle message to me that I wasn’t good enough and boy did I want to prove him wrong on that point.
It has been a struggle to change my thinking and without reading here and seeing the truth I doubt I’d be done yet. Im still working on his actions not affecting me anymore and that even though I’m alone it is better than been caught up in that mess.
NML,
Regarding, “…you’ve always got Your back.”
This is what I love about Baggage Reclaim. Your writing consistently teaches/validates the fact that what we women need to focus on in our dating lives is US. I am 52 and FINALLY get it. Now in my dating life I am using critical thinking…watching every behavior. I have decided to run my dating life like like a business. Would I Not watch my own back in business; hell no. Then why would I turn a blind eye during The Discovery Phase?
Plenty of time for Dreams later, and I do believe in them.
But only when I can truly trust the other person (and My own inner voice!)
Many thanks,
Sydney
Amen, Sydney! (I’m 51.)
52 here too! That was one of the biggest hurdles to overcome (not that I have fully). How could I be this age and still making such stupid mistakes? I’m coming to see that folks make mistakes at all ages, even me, because we are folks.
The fear of making a mistake or the fear of admitting I’ve made a mistake comes from my crappy childhood where I figured if I was “perfect”, I would get attention from the original EU in my life, my father. No matter how perfect I was, it never mattered. Additionally, I always felt that he held me to a higher standard than everyone else, particularly my younger siblings. That childhood perception of perfection=attention has played out in every subsequent relationship while I was daddy hunting.
Many thanks Natalie and everybody. I’m feeling a ton lighter as I realize I’m not perfect, I don’t have to be perfect, I made a giant mistake, and I’m probably going to make a few more (hopefully not as bad though)! I get to be a mere mortal like everyone else. I feel like skipping.
It’s also funny how I could forgive the AC’s and EUM’s mistakes so quickly but haven’t really been able to forgive me.
Typo alert: Judgment has only one /e/.
This post reminded me of that cliched line about how men never ask for directions. We need to start asking OURSELVES for directions before we lose our way (and our minds!). Many of us try several dumb-ass “roads” with the same guy and don’t even consider aborting or turning around. We play hard to get. We play easy to get. We play the “cool” girl and say it’s okay if he sleeps around. We play the “ultimatum” girl and stomp our feet at him. None of it ever works – because it’s not meant to work! It’s meant to make us feel like we are in control, to suppress our fear, feed our denial, whatever. It’s ego-feeding.
What we need is relationship GPS. You don’t keep driving around in circles after 1 or 2 wrong turns. You acknowledge that you’re lost and get out the map.
I’m British Eve, not American hence the spelling.
Eve pointing out a typo wouldn’t of been cool even if you would of been right. Loved your comment though about having a relationship GPS, where can I buy one.
I am probably losing my footing as credible judge – but, really, THIS is your best post, Natalie ; ). Really though, this covers what was the most difficult part of being with and getting over the AC: dealing with those fears and realisations, about selling myself short, about deluding myself, about being paralysed because I could not understand or did not want to understand the gap between how things started and how things ended up, how he saw me at the beginning and how devalued and disgusting he seemed to perceive me by the end. I was like a blinking deer on those tracks. Then there was the complicit element too – because I had to be honest that I was not just a blinking deer, I was also the chubby, jolly train driver, tooting away, on the way to ‘must work out’, while the AC was sweating and fidgeting in one of the compartments. It’s not the way to conduct a relationship!
I really think that one of your most useful metaphors, Nat, is the idea of continuing to lay chips on a dodgy hand rather than folding, thinking you’ll eventually come through with a win. I remember that was a real mind-exploder for me when I first came across this site, and this post expands so well on that. Thank you.
BTW, just as a follow-up for you, my e-pals, rather than acting on them, I sat with those sabotage feelings I had a week ago, which was the best thing to do, as this new guy – yes it’s early days – is turning out to be one of the most super people I’ve met in a long time. I remember thinking that when I decided to go NC with the AC that this course would be the only way to be able to meet someone good for me, without the nagging energy of being ‘friends’ with an AC, and it seems to be true! It bloody well took some time (and I have distracted myself with lots of EUMs in between), but this guy is kind, generous, funny, ambitious, smart, successful and…we just get along. I am really glad I didn’t follow those panicky feelings, which I understand is partly a function of what Natalie says here: not trusting myself to get it right, and not trusting that I will be able to cope if things don’t work out.
Elle
Absolutely, we do have to cut off the EUMs/ACs/most-if-not-all exes. They do have a toxic effect on your life, even if you barely have contact. They are a constant reminder that you made an error in judgement. You see their silly email/text and think “Oh yeah so-and-so. I really loved him and he turned out to be a cheating wazzock. I wonder if the guy I’m seeing now is a cheating wazzock too …”
Or you’ll have a row with the new guy (it happens) and the AC, with his usual uncanny timing, pops up offering a shoulder to cry on … oh no!
They’re weeds in the garden of your life. Get rid – roots ‘n all.
Elle and Grace, I couldn’t agree more! My feeling is that if we’re going to all this trouble to be emotionally healthy, why keep someone who’s clearly toxic around?
Elle, I’m so excited for you that it’s going well with the new guy
He sounds awesome!!
Thanks ladies. We went out again last night, and it’s goofy-teeth great (you know, when you can’t help smiling because you’re with someone who allows you to be calm and natural, and you get to laugh a lot). Who knows what’s around the corner, but I have to say that over the past year (in wake of AC), I’ve done a lot of cleaning out of my mind, refocused my professional goals, and reordered friendships to surround myself with positive people (and weeded exes, as Grace says!). I’ve reestablished my values and relationship priorities, and I’ve been far better at handling my thoughts and emotions to do with family/the past. I’ve had several opportunities to ‘make myself be right’ by conquering ACs and to hide away with EUMs and have gotten out of them quickly and without too much fuss or angst. This has been hard work, and I could not have been so disciplined without this site (thanks Nat!). I have now met someone who has all these superficially great qualities, and is ALSO considerate, consistent, warm, reliable, funny and open to a relationship. And while I have my panicky moments and I still have a lot of crap that I need to sweep from my mind (still have my moments of thinking I need to be ready for another disaster, and some shame to deal with), I am ultimately feeling more open, grounded and confident than I could have imagined. Really. I had thought that life after an AC would mean that I’d only ever get into a relationship as a kind of business arrangement, resigning to something ‘good enough’. Realising this is not the case is kind of magical! I’m happy and hopeful, and I am actually not scared if it doesn’t work out. I’d like it to, but this is very different to the feeling I had with the AC in which separation felt life-threatening. (Sorry if this seems/is self-indulgent, but this last year really was a crawl out from a ditch for me, emotionally! Subtext of comment: Nat’s policy to NC + soul-searching (self-forgiveness) + boundary-enforcement + nice things for yourself = way forward)
I am really glad for you too Elle!
I think the panicky moments are natural, as is waiting for the other shoe to drop and blowing every small conflict out of proportion. I found that i was very trigger-happy when it came to the current boyfriend. I was constantly waiting for him to turn into a raging a-hole and/or vanish. Then there were the times when i thought he would change his mind and, during my low points, the ‘i don’t deserve this’ thoughts. You just have to be rational about everything, assess the feelings and decide if what you’re feeling is valid or whether you’re imagination is running away with you. You sound like you’re doing this already so i am sure things will be fine and, if not, then YOU will still be fine.
It has been six months for me and i am only now totally relaxing and accepting the idea that my bloke probably is a great, consistend, kind, funny guy all the time. I’ve stopped waiting for him to grow horns and a tail! I did have to tell my self to stop being so bloody stupid quite a lot though – as did NML, though she was much more diplomatic about it
.
Elle and Minky, you have made my day
It’s so nice to hear that there is light at the end of the AC tunnel (sometimes, we all need a reminder I think!). Sometimes I worry that I’m in denial about the progress I’ve made, I’m still too screwed up and, if I were to find someone nice, I’d sabotage it somehow. Reading happy updates like yours reminds me that I’m not hopelessly damaged goods! Elle, I know exactly what you mean about separation from an AC and it doesn’t sound self-indulgent at all – I’ve crawled out of that ditch too! I’m so, so happy for you lovely ladies!!
Thank you. It’s no small thing having support from all you lovelies. Natasha – I felt the same, but it’s just not the case that we’re destined for the emotionally-broken dustbin. If you do the things to get over an AC and being attracted them in the first place (subject to the fact that some ACs out there are truly twisted so there’s no sure rules about how long this takes), you’re actually a far better person and potential partner for it. I really feel that. And, Minky, you were the torch for me! Thank you! New man had dinner with my family last night, and it was great. By great, I mean normal and happy. I can just leave this guy to be his friendly, warm, funny self. With the AC, I felt I had to make sure he was OK in social situations. In fact, I remember now how he would pout if I got more attention than he did, and I’d find myself trying to be more quiet and less engaging so he would not feel like I was his competition. Gosh, how you save yourself a world of energy-sapping trouble when you move away from ACs and EUs! x x
I feel as though I was tossed and tumbled around in a huge wave in the ocean, gasping for air every now & then, then abruptly being tossed to the shore. And I here I sit, with the wind knocked out of me, bewildered, wondering what on earth just happened, and how did I get let myself get so sucked in the first place?
The loss of the relationship, and what I had hoped it would be, is painful. Losing a dear friend who’s been in my life on & off for years & years is extremely painful. Losing myself, my esteem, my boundaries, my dignity, my worth…….excruciating. Yes. made a mistake. A huge mistake. An enormous error in judgment, all because I was so hungry for love.
It’s the self-forgiveness that is the hardest to come to terms with. I should have known better, I deserved better, if only I hadn’t done/said xyz, etc., etc. I must stop beating up on myself, yet, at the moment, this is where I am stuck.
Oh, thank you, Natalie. For bringing these painful issues to light and illuminating them for us so we can found our way to a healthier, more peaceful way of being.
Ok, I’m in tears here. Who in the PNW wants to take me out for a glass of wine?!
Mango – it takes time. You are grieving and you cannot rush the process of coming to terms with the disconnect between your dreams and the reality of the person you thought he was. I made the same mistake. I know how painful it is, how stupid one can feel. It takes a lot of time but it really does get better.
As I started to feel better, and was finally able to admit the mistake I had made, I did start to wonder why I had spent all those years pining for an on-off relationship from the past. And began to see a bigger pattern in my life and approach to all relationships. Therapy has really helped me to understand where this came from and why I kept making the same mistakes over and over. Have you ever considered taking this route?
Hi Phoebe, yes, I have considered taking the therapy route. I made an inquiry just yesterday! I was/am aware of certain patterns resulting from father/abandonment ‘issues’, and I suppose I thought that the awareness alone, as well as some previous work in therapy, was enough to help me to avoid making the same mistakes. And for the most part, I have.
Yet with this one man, who at one time loved me so deeply, well, suffice it to say I got completely trapped and buried in my most painful pattern recreation yet. Ouch.
Friends tell me this is good news! And, in a strange way, I am now, slowly, beginning to see it this way. An opportunity to not only heal, but do the inner work to move forward and really feel good about myself and my life. I’ve done many amazing things, yet, seem to hold myself back from living a life that I’ve only held in my dreams, feeling undeserving or not worthy. I think low self-esteem at the moment is at the core as well, and am starting to work on improving that as well.
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I’m glad to hear you’re feeling better about your situation, and are taking care of yourself.
Mango, I take all of “us” for spiritual wine and forgiveness and health in all ways for always in my prayers. I pray with fervent wishes that we all find peace and give out the light and not give up. You and all of the ones here reading and/or participating and those who can’t find this site or haven’t yet…may we all find the peace and healing that we all need and long for. This is a place of wisdom and kindness in a turbulent world. A toast to you! May the wisdom spread…
Leisha, thank you. Amen!
I wasted 5 years of my life on someone who wasn’t available. I finally had the “Enough” moment two years ago and hit the eject button. But ever since then, I still have moments where I question my judgement. I seem to meet commitment-phobes everywhere, but I eject quickly, these days.
Despite my quick ejection rates, I still haven’t met anyone the committed relationship that I am looking for. And I find that I have moments, two years later, where I am still very angry at the time I wasted on my EUM (to use the lingo). I can’t believe that I’m not over it yet.
This could not come at a better time in my healing process. I wake up at 2am rehashing every stupid move I made and thinking about how absolutely pathetic I was to go back time after time. It’s good to remind ourselves that we are not only not responsible for what they do, we really do have the power to say, “NO MORE!” and walk away. And the sooner the better!! I’m 16 days into that decision for myself and I’m really loving my new found sanity!!
And today you are 17 days into your changed life. I’m sending you wishes for strength and to continue in your new direction. It’s not easy sometimes. Good for you! I am now on my fourth day… for the fourth time in a year but this time I know I am DONE!
I too, am on my 4th day for probably the 14th time in a year. This has gone on for nearly 3 years. His disappearing acts are of the norm, they rarely last a week or so. It really has to stop at some point, im preparing myself to be ambushed when he gets bored, realises he’s lonely / has made a mistake or whatever.
And for the first time in I cant remember when, I actually feel OK. I sucked it and saw, and didnt like what I saw at all. Maybe I am crazy, if I am he made me that way, but I am past caring, I am 26 years old and refuse to spend the rest of my life worrying over and loving someone who has treated me appallingly. New life, new me! Commence!
XXX
Cherry, do yourself a favor and block his email and phone number so you will never know when he’s trying to boomerang on back your way…and when you find yourself wondering if he is or isn’t just assume that he is and blocking him makes it sooo much easier to ignore him and move on with your life.
Jenn_NY: Girl, just remember you can’t get to Day 17 without getting through Day 4, you are on your way!! Keep it up because I can tell you that learning to trust yourself again is the best!
Hi Jenn_NY,
I remember the moment of being DONE…I was on my second go round and was really trying this time to communicate my feelings in an emotionally healthy manner…..his response to my change was that he noticed this time around I was “really behaving myself”.
That comment did it for me….I realized that it did not matter how much I tried to look at myself and change my behavior….this was a man that just did not respect me and did not know how to work through conflict together….he said this comment with such disdain that I had no choice but to face his lack of character. I was speechless for a second after he said it, but then told him “That is an unkind thing to say and speaks to your lack character”, I think I am done here, I have done all I am prepared to do”…felt good.
I want to thank you, Nat. I have read many of your wonderful articles. They are truly inspirational to me. You are like a best friend/sister/mother and therapist rolled all into one.
However, today’s nugget of wisdom speaks to my heart. Yes, I made a mistake. The mistake of misjudging. . . The mistake of hoping . . . The mistake of wanting. . . The mistake of waiting . . . And finally, the mistake of giving myself to somone who cannot or will not care for me as I care for him.
It hurts to know that I let somoneone into my heart who did not deserve to be let in. I misjudged . . . I believed when I should have doubted. I put up with all of him game playing.
Yes, I made a mistake. As time has gone on, I’ve come to accept that bitter pill because I realise that it is a necessary part of my growth. This person has destroyed any trust that was between us. So he and I can never be because I do not trust him to be the man that I need him to be. LOL. In fact, he has proven that to me time and time again . . . .
If you do not have trust in a relationship, you have nothing . . . . . .
jj: I have am going through a similar situation. It is rough. My AC twisted his own lies and bad behavior such that at the end, I thought everything was my fault and I ended up apologizing to him! It’s embarrassing and humiliating for me to admit that. I did not believe this until recently, but there really are bad people out there. I am in NC now, obviously, and strenuously working to forgive myself for missing the signs and getting caught up in the pretend romance of it all. There is nothing wrong with having an open heart and being vulnerable, I remind myself of this daily. And like everything else, with time it will pass. I spent two weeks literally crying and neglecting my life because I was so upset with myself for trusting him. I am trying to remember that I behaved honorably and honestly, and what he did is between him and his own higher power.
thank you,
you have put it so well, the part that bewildered me so much. I acted honourably and honestly, respected him, trusted him, tried to be vulnerable and open, and I feel like it got turned round on me as though I did something wrong.
I am guilty of trying to put myself in his shoes to see myself through his eyes, and work out what I did that pushed him away… trying to work out what he was thinking and feeling….. I have to accept he was probably not thinking or feeling very much at all. I made it all so easy for him, as soon as I pulled myself together and voiced (as gently as I could) a couple of concerns and boundaries he was gone. And I knew he would be.
I don’t have real evidence that he was AC – but he might well be – I sabotaged it before he really had to show his true colours, and I am glad I did.
” I acted honourably and honestly, respected him, trusted him, tried to be vulnerable and open…”
And THAT is why I feel so stupid and embarrased
meagen,
I also feel so stupid and like a total blind idiot. But I think my AC would have done what he did to ANYONE he was with, it just so happens that it was me. It feels so personal, like this AC was out to get me, but maybe he’s just a jackass. The key for me here is figuring out not what happened with him, that doesn’t matter and I will never understand, but why I keep getting involved in the same repetitive situation. And until I figure that out, I am staying away from men.
I recently had a conversation with a great friend of mine, and he said though I think my behaviors have changed, I am still repeating the same story in my head, so subconsciously, I am actually acting just the same, picking the same type of guy, etc. He told me that what happened, happened. And that is it. It doesn’t matter how or why, etc. It happened. My AC behaved in a certain way, because he is an AC, and it does not have anything to do with my value as a human being. I don’t know if this is the right way to think of things, but it has given me peace of mind to remember I am a good person, and I deserve to be treated well, and just because someone doesn’t treat me well, doesn’t mean I am a bad person. I am on a time-out from all new men until I can better identify the warning signs and listen to them.
Thanks Nat, think that will help a lot of people.
I liked the analogies you used. I’d like to add one.
At the end of the day, you know a bad apple, but you eat some of it cause it’s there, it’s easy and you’re hungry, but it makes you sick. But next day, there’s another bad apple on your kitchen bench and nothing in the fridge. Better off getting out of the house, going a bit hungry and foraging for food that isn’t going to make you sick. Don’t be mad at yourself that you ate the bad apple yesterday. Just stop doing it.
Thanks, I adore your website.
Cannot begin to thank you enough for this post. Thank you, thank you.
I am that person, who stays too long as it unravels; ignoring the signs and red flags only to shoulder the blame, swallow the mounting guilt and stay some more willing things to change – all the while my brain is flashing, “ERROR!! ERROR!!” but I neatly blind myself from that truth.
What many of us in this position realize is that, yes, we’ve made an error, and that it is OK to learn and grow from our choices and experiences. But, how do we leave once we realize it’s not good/healthy/a mistake?
Acknowledging an error is one thing – and an important one, a first step to something better. But, I for one, have the damnedest time actually ending things clean and swift. For example, I’ve been in “ERROR!!” mode for over a year but have yet to fully end things for good. I need to know that bridge, the escape route that I can take to get me there and into another, healthier territory.
Thank you in advance. Your writing and wisdom is marvelous and I read you most every day.
I wanted to call him this week, after his snarky text saying I was the one to blame we hadn’t spoken last weekend. (I have a child. I was busy with her and I am not going to mix her with him and then have things fall apart. It will upset her as well as me.)
I wanted to call and say, “I’m done with this. You’re here then you’re cold shouldering me. I’m in charge of my emotions and you’re trying to control me. I’m done with that. Good-bye.” But that would only open another chance for him to manipulate me so, I haven’t called; nor will I. Silence seems to be the clearest way of saying, “I’m not interested anymore”, then sticking to it. It feels strange not to have closure but, really, closure becomes about guilt and nothing more.
I have so much more knowledge now than I’ve ever had about myself and relationships. It still wasn’t enough, I still didn’t trust my inner voice. This last time ( first new relationship after leaving the abusive ex AC and discovering BR) I saw the warning signs and the difference in values between us within a month but the ‘feeling’ I had for him made me keep moving forward when I knew I shouldn’t of. I could of left with some more pride and dignity, trusted myself, and that would have felt way more soothing than how it ended, with drama and me being emotional and him telling me to act my age. I have been angry at myself for creating this situation, and what is hurt and stress now could of been mild discomfort if had just opted out as soon as I had the the right facts. How in the hell did I get here again? I walked right into it. I can’t just chalk it up to him having issues (he does). I still do too, even with my new awareness. I am brushing off the dirt and regrouping but am feeling like I failed myself and didn’t act with grace. Hopefully this was the defining experience that makes me really put into action and use the things I have learned. The dress rehearsal didn’t go so well. More work to be done.
I just got out of a very rocky 12-week relationship that started out very fast. Before I knew it, I was invested in this guy. He was a selfish jerk, never asking me about my day or anything about myself or my life. It was all about him all the time. For some reason, I found this charming or intriguing at first, but it started to wear on me. My professional life was suffering. He didn’t care if I got enough sleep or if I had time to study. If he wanted to watch a movie or go out, I was supposed to drop everything and do what he wanted…or he would sulk and make me feel guilty.
I had flags go up on our first date, which I chose to ignore because I had fantasized about him for a few months prior. I couldn’t believe the fantasy man I had dreamed about would have turned out to be an assclown in disguise. I knew it was true though right away…but chose to look the other way because i was lonely and so wanted to believe he was the man for me.
So true that the red flags are our friends.
I love that – short and to the point:
RED FLAGS ARE OUR FRIENDS.
There’s one for the bathroom mirror.
Ditto PJM, I’ll send you the scotch tape.
Thank you for this post. I needed it so much today. You clarified so many things I’ve been thinking the past few days. I made a huge mistake this past weekend with an attached man who has stolen my heart. But I let him steal it and now I’m taking it back.
Please continue to post these lovely blogs, Natalie, so that I can be strong when he calls me to ask to see me.
maryc and jj – I relate to both of your comments. I am week 3 NC and the past few days I am all too aware that my head is on track but my heart refuses to let it go. I too was so ready to receive and give the ‘love’ the fact that I made a huge mistake did not seem to matter. He was everything I wanted except he was and is totally emotionally unvailable.
It helps to realise that the problem (Unavailability) lies with him, but I am now embarrassed, sad and feeling used that it has made me re think who i am , and just what I am projecting to the world to not react more appropriately to the situation in the first place. To make matters worst he ‘said’ I am not ready, I am a womanising pr#%@$ BUT gushed all the good stuff about me I wanted to hear, kept seeking me out despite a request for space to heal. Shame on me …shame, shame shame..
AUADDED….Come on girl you don’t have anything to be ashamed of. Guys like that just have a way about them, they know what buttons to push and they are slick slick slick, they’ve had alot of practice. Most of us go in thinking the best of someone and their intentions and why wouldn’t we. Take a step back, take a deep breath, keep NC but most importantly don’t beat yourself up, you did nothing wrong.
I will in future listen carefully to things they say – they do tend to give you a warning – so they can live with themselves.
Mine didn’t say anything along the lines that he was a womaniser – I dont think he is – but he said things like he has never been close to marrying, (he has two children by different exs – very close to the kids) told me he woke up one morning and told the woman he was with at the time he didnt want to buy the house they were about to close on, and ended the relationship. He in effect told me he is EUM, and has been for a long long time……
jj
I’m sorry but he can’t be THAT close to two different children by two different women, assuming the women have custody. Logistically, there just isn’t enough time, and he has the womanising to do as well. I’m not trying to rubbish everything you say, but you seem to think that he’s better than he is.
Being close to children isn’t about nice days out, or saying that you’re close to them, or having them hero-worship you. It’s about being there for the guts and the grime, and putting in THE HOURS . However, I do give him credit for at least showing up, many men don’t. Is he supporting them financially? Can’t leave that much left over so I can see why he would bail out of buying a house.
Grace –
no offence – but your tone can be a little harsh – not all EUMs are ACs or womanisers. …. I am trying to point out that they dont all have a big buyer beware tattoo on their foreheads – I looked for signs he was a good man – and they were there – looking out for his kids and his elderly father – but i missed the flags re not commiting to the mothers of his children at the time.
As you think I am a little bit dim and cant possibly have any idea of what a good man looks like – the house girl was pre kids. His daughter practically lives with him – and the nights she doesnt stay he takes her to school every morning – his son is younger and lives a little further – but he stays every weekend for one or two nights, and more when his mothers shifts are on the weekends. He has his own business and runs his life around the kids.
And I didn’t say he was a womaniser. It wasn’t what he was about at all – he is shy and nervous and EUM. He didnt even kiss me in a sexual way for the first six weeks, and he was visibly nervous – which was why I gave him so much slack – didnt display the usual AC flags. ( I was more concerned he was impotent at first than anything else! – he wasnt.) However I did MISS signs – or ignored them. Always kept at arms length, fear of intimacy flags, but none to say he was an AC. He may well be – I have no evidence. And it doesn’t matter. I can feel sympathy for him and choose not to be angry or hate him, it doesn’t feel good to me. I have learned from him. And I got out within months, not years, by stating my boundaries. I am hurt but not a fool.
jj
No offence taken. Apologies. I don’t think you’re dim at all – I’ve had the wool pulled over my eyes even worse. EUMs have this amazing ability to treat us poorly and make us feel sorry for them and guess who pointed this out to me – one of them! I think they know more about their modus operandi than they let on. But I shouldn’t be trying to force anyone into agreement. We’re all free to make our own decisions.
Anyway, it does seem like it would be genuinely difficult for him to have a proper relationship. He doesn’t want any more on his plate. It’s do-able but he would have to let someone in, which is a risk. Keeping it all separate must be like air traffic control. Too many planes, not enough runway.
Does raise the bigger question of dating someone with children. I always thought I’d be happy with that and now I’m not so sure. I guess we have to judge each situation on its merits and it’s okay to admit an error.
Grace:
“EUMs have this amazing ability to treat us poorly and make us feel sorry for them”
!!!!! Yes. It’s astonishing that they manage to achieve this but they do. This is is mine (ex!) to an absolute tee! When I recognised he was doing it, I saw it every time, I could write the bloody script! And over time I found it really tiresome (and astoundingly selfish)… it was more and more difficult for him to get any sympathy – or even any remark – from me…
He was always ‘snowed under’ at work – but always took on more and more, and he was always feeling unwell with one thing and another…always when he disappeared it was cos he was “sick”. He was always reluctant ot give the details tho! He told me once – by text of course (when he knew I was mad at him for disappeaing again) that he’d been unwell and had been in hospital for two days “for tests”. He wasn’t at all happy when I questioned him about it with text returns…
me: what kind of tests?
him: blood tests
me: what are they testing for?
him: to see why I feel faint a lot of the time and my heart murmur
me: why did they need to keep you in for two days – they can do that at outpatients?
him: I don’t know why
me: that’s odd. What hospital were you in?
him: why do you want to kow?
me: why d’you not want to tell me?
him: what is this, twenty questions?..
me: sorry, am I interrogating you
him: yes you are.
End.
Hospital for two days my arse! I knew full well he was talking shite half the time. Yep. I was the biggest mistake dodger. EVER! I didn’t so much make an error in judgement as make an error in what I did about my judgement. I just couldn’t imagine life without him in it – even partially. I can now.
“I think they know more about their modus operandi than they let on”
And how! I really agree with this. I see my exEUM as very knowlegable to what he was doing. He knew he had me hooked in good for a while there. Taking me on and off the shelf and timing his interactions just so… keeping me on the line. It became blaringly apparant after I went NC… you would think he would get really worried about me and my sudden disappearance. Nope, what he realized was that I finally said “F this”… and he knew it. That’s why they finally give up and go away, they know we’ve finally figured out they are wasting our time and opportunists. By getting new fish on the line they never say “oh, I really need to figure out why I do what I do” and get help. They just say… this girl thinks I’m great. And keep the high going. Yes, I admit my err in judgement… that I am/was EU as well and like attracts like. I forgive myself for the time I wasted on hoping on love from someone who couldn’t give it. But I am proud of myself that I finally said “hey… why do I do what I do??” Cuz it would have been a lot easier just to find another cute, charming guy and get my high back.
Wow, I needed to read this today. So true! There is that old saying – you either make the right decision, or you make the decision right. I have spent my life focusing on the second option – I kept trying to make the decision “right” – by forcing them to change, by trying hard enough for both of us, by investing long after it was clear there was no point. I see now that “making the decision right” means being willing to walk away, regardless of how much you have invested. If it isn’t right, all my wishing and hoping and working and controlling isn’t going to make it right. It will just make it harder for me to accept. Such a great life lesson. I could have saved myself so much pain and grief if I had just learned it earlier.
This is me. Failing to act on code amber and red flags, treating dating as a relationship and allowing myself to become emotionally invested in future faking fantasies, not the realities staring me in the face. My biggest fear after learning all this about myself through BR is that I will do it all over again, or, go to the other extreme and not allow myself any vulnerability out of fear of making another horrendous error in judgment. Whatever happens, this BR journey has been life transforming. Thank you, thank you, thank you…
Wow, what an awesome post and rings so true for me.
You could have been talking about me all the way through the post.
My last relationship was my epiphany relationship, the one that hurt so much its caused big change. At the same time I found this site and started to process all the information I found on here, including starting the NC rule to stop further hurt from this tool.
I was left feeling very much angry with myself for putting in so much effort, energy and time into someone who did not deserve it alt all then to have them walk out anyway. Not pleasant.
I started blaming myself as well until I started reading things on this site which helped to build my confidence and understand things.
All this change is starting to spread out into work relationships, family and friends and although sometimes I slip, it’s not for long and for the most part everything is becoming automatic and sticking.
This makes me happy and builds even more confidence in myself.
I had the painful; experience of working with my x and he didn’t make things easy. I watched from a far this person slowly materialise into someone id never ever date or even be friends with.
How could this be? It’s because I ignored the red flags and went into help mode. He was always the person he ended up being but for a short time he morphed into someone else to get his foot in the door.
He left two days ago to another company and this makes me happy but im also glad I went through it all the hard way because that’s where all the biggest lessons were learn and how I managed to strengthen up.
I had to, I had two choices, allow him to destroy my life, friends and career or be strong and keep going. It was very hard though and I managed to reach a point where I barely noticed him but there was always that slight tension there. So now that’s he has left I’ve found another sense of letting go, freedom or release and with that comes feelings both sad and happy and confused after all I had to adapt and now im adapting again. But I also know it won’t last and ill in a few days feel right as rain again ?
Brilliant post Nat.
Decisions always can be seen as wrong or right after we have done them.And we women tend to believe so much because we want to believe.We justify we ignore red flags cause we hope so much for the good. And the age doesnt matter.But its never too late to learn and move on although its painfull. Good luck and strength to all of you.
And yes when the weight is lifted from our shoulders……it will take some time to realize the relief.
I feel like I’ve hit rock bottom. Reading this post does help in the sense there are many people on here who have hit the bottom and are doing well. If others can do, well then I will be able to as well. I’m so sick of the roller coaster, and the feeling of being addicted to the high. I can’t seem to break the habit of waiting for the high. My MM claims to be about a month or two away from filing. Not really sure if I believe him. I read all the posts about waiting and still wonder if I should give him the two months and see? I’m very inspired by all the women on here, you all seem to know exactly how someone in these situations feel!
Kate
Two months? He clearly thinks you have nothing better to do. By the way a non-contentious divorce can easily take up to a year. If his wife digs in her heels, or if there’s property and children be prepared for a long drawn out battle.
When I was jobhunting, if the interviewer liked me, I would often get the call within an hour or two. Why? Cos they don’t want to lose me to the competition.
Your MM is clearly not worried about losing you. He’s having a laugh. He doesn’t think you can do any better cos … you’re the kind of woman who would hook up with a married man. Better not be that woman anymore.
Kate
there’s no law says he needs to live with his wife while he’s ‘two months away from filing for divorce’. Grace is right – he imagines you have nothing better to do than to wait for him to get round to it. And he won’t get round to it. H eknows this already. My friend had an on/off thing with a cheating lying bstrd for years. She had been previously married to someone else but had left that cheating lying husband many years before she met the b/f. The cheating lying b/friend kept whining on that the reason he wouldn’t give her a decent relationship was cos she had never yet divorced her husband and he found this ‘humiliating’. So she found some money that she didn’t have and divorced her ex. Turned out the the cheating lying bstrd boyfriend wasn’t that humiliated afterall. Made not one hoot of a difference.
Katebelate, when you let him set and re-set and re-set the goal posts he knows all he has to do is keep on shifting them. You need to know your own boundaries and don’t budge on them.
Kate,
An ex of mine who used to work in construction, doing mainly home renovations for middle class clients (and who also had some dubious personal habits around paying bills on time) had this to say about his crew’s work philosophy:
“If the client asks, say, ‘Three weeks.’”
What this meant was, even if you know the job is totally going to hell, and will take four months and more money to do, you don’t want to scare the client into firing you, so you tell them, “Three weeks.” It’s just a short enough horizon to have them feel you’ll deliver, but long enough to keep them invested, keep paying, and be even further down the road when the three weeks go by and the job still isn’t done. Then they really feel uncomfortable about firing, because they’ve invested a lot; meanwhile, the job drags out and guys keep getting paid.
When I read your note, I thought, huh, he’s basically saying: “Three weeks.” It could be three YEARS, or more likely, it could be NEVER.
This is so true for me! I have been reading this site for a couple of weeks now and it has helped me so much… really helped me to make sense of things. I am 31 and can’t remember being in a relationship that has actually felt good for any length of time! I’ve always tried to blame it on just being unlucky and meeting the wrong people and never looked at myself and why I’ve made the wrong choices. It was maybe too painful to admit that I’ve made mistakes and to see why I made them…. I’ve never been good at coping with criticism or failure.
My last relationship (if you can call it that!) was very on and off. Thankfully it only lasted 6 months but I let him get away with name calling, ignoring me, yelling at me and disrespecting me for the majority of it. Partly because I wanted him to be who I thought he was. I made excuses for him and blamed myself because I didn’t want to admit I’d made a mistake in getting involved in the first place. I didn’t deserve his treatment. In our last conversation he called me a psycho b$tch, told me to never speak to him again and then hung up on me because I’d caught him out lying. That was 4 weeks ago and I’ve heard nothing since but the fact that I wanted to hear from him and wanted an apology and to be validated says something about me.
I want to thank everyone here and Natalie for all her wise words, reading this site has meant I went to see a therapist last night for the first time. Already I feel like it will help. I was afraid to look at myself before. I’ve realised that if I want to have good relationships then I need to build up my self esteem and have boundaries and faith in my own decisions. I’m not sure how to do that yet but I know I will learn, even just being aware of it and coming out of denial is a start I guess. I’ve had enough of being seen as a pushover!! Thank you again so much
Admitting I made an error of judgement is the hardest part to come to terms with. I went NC several times and did ‘suck it and see’. Nothing changed. I finally got it and did NC for good. Yesterday I saw the AC at a work seminar. Still charming. I was polite and friendly-ish, but what amazed me was that he couldn’t see that he’d done anything wrong, after a 2 year relationship that was going nowhere. He said – and this might be a clue to how ACs think – he’d been hurt badly in the past and doesn’t want to get attached to one woman, so has 2-3 women on the go, so that if one dumps him or dies (his words) he always has another to fall back on. I replied that he could take me off the ‘list’ and he said – seriously- ‘but we’ll always be friends’., which explains the harem he keeps in touch with, while looking for new options. I’m just speechless at his screwed up way of thinking. No one woman really matters to him and I wished I’d known this at the start. I could have saved myself a lot of heartache and pain. Its still painful to realise that I meant nothing (a marriage proposal was just future faking) but I tell myself I made a very bad investment and to get the hell out is the only way. Yes I miss him, but then I think of him telling the same things to someone else and carrying on with his endless merry go round of women and know I’m worth much more than that.
Wow: “if one *dies*”??!! What are women to him? Pets? Goldfish?
Good thing to be rid of that one.
Hey Elle,
You write… “I could not understand or did not want to understand the gap between how things started and how things ended up, how he saw me at the beginning and how devalued and disgusting he seemed to perceive me by the end.” This is classic behaviour of a narcissist. If you read about them and their relationships what you described above is exactly how they start and end relationships. They have a perfect ideal in their heads and when they meet you they assume you are the ideal incarnate, as they get to know you and you divert from their mental script, they begin to devalue you. But basically you are just a stand in for what’s in their head. As painful as it is, it isn’t personal. Once you realize and come to terms with that, it’s easier to realize you made a mistake, you got snowed, to cut your losses and move on.
(smile) Thanks, Phoebe. Yes, this seems about right. It’s would be fair to say he never knew the real me, just this idealised snapshot, and then all the weaknesses of mine (lovable to a decent person!) that he saw as hideous. I am glad to say that I am almost there, as far as letting it all goes is concerned. I am at the point where I actually don’t care about why or how he did what he did. It’s a huge relief! But thanks for confirming that I was almost certainly just someone in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person!
Phoebe,
Penetrating insight! I have never quite thought of it that way. As for cutting your losses, the old saying ‘your first loss is your best loss’ is true. Keep doubling down and you will lose more and more.
@Minky
i think if would not do this analyzing. ……Nothing would change and we would go on living on fantasy island
we would not be able to see why they treat us that way AND we would not see why we let us treat this way
I Think its so human to wanting to know the WHY.
At least we find out where and how to set boundaries that others can and must feel
Is so hurtfull to know deep inside that we know we are treated disrespectful but we dont do anything but lol staying…hoping…..fantasizing…..
Well i think analizing is a good thing to learn and to grow
I totally agree with analysing being important for growth and personal happiness. However, i think it’s a waste of time trying to endlessly analyse why someone behaves badly within a relationship. That’s what i was trying to say. It is better to accept that someone is not right for us and move on, rather than sitting there wondering WHY they are not right for us and letting months and years go by. If you see what i mean?
simone
be careful of too much analysis – it can keep you stuck in a relationship to gather more evidence or to try different tactics. or it can be a way to justify ignoring red flags. “hmm that felt wrong but maybe i should figure out why he does it”. or after the relationship is over, it’s a way to stay invested and keep thinking about him, believing that understanding his behaviour is key to future happiness. .
when i was seeing the counsellor i would sometimes start analysing other people’s behaviour but, in the end, you never do know why. even a trained professional can’t help you figure it out. why did hitler hate jews? why are there serial killers? why is this man an assclown? some things are just not worth knowing
If I was going to expend a lot of time understanding something difficult I would go for the Theory or Relativity, something beautiful and elegant that has expanded our understanding of the universe. Not why X is an Idiot.
In my opinion it is always OK to admit we made wrong decisions.
Only people who dont wanna learn are hiding their mistakes and wrong views.
Its a sign of strength to stand up and admit of being wrong.
Noone can go through a life without making failures or wrong decisions. The only wrong thing is to blinded towards your own failures and living in denial.
Nat, thank you again! You are helping me get through these painful days and nights with your “right on time” posts (although last night, I took a sleeping pill so I could to bed at 7 pm to avoid the pain). I’ve spent two years loving a EUM who in the beginning promised me a life of love and happiness and but then begin to steadily chip away everything he promised.
First he gave excuses that I believed (but red flags began to wave) then the excuses became so ridiculous or he didn’t try at all. It was “I was asking too much or choking him with my requests”. Yet I was caught up in denying that I was wrong about him. After all, I had told all my friends and family he was the One. And oh the poetry he wrote! I was the envy of my friends because he was perceived by them to be so romantic and attentive (I lied to cover up his behavior). How could I let them know I was a fool? How could I be so wrong? I am very quiet, but intelligent and a perfectionist. But because I love drama and when we were together, it felt so good, I disregarded my common sense and refused to see I made a mistake.
I invested so much time in this man, waiting for him night after night, refusing to go places in case he called, begging him to come see me and ignoring interests from other men because he was the one. Ha! I had a fantasy that I filled in all the missing pieces. Today is day 5 of NC and I can barely handle the misery I feel. My every thought is about him ever though I know I am wasting my emotions on him. I thought I loved myself, but I think I loved him and hated me. How else could I have tolerated his behavior?
I promise you, if you keep at NC and work on your self esteem it *will* get better. It really will. xx
Hi Vanya,
I work with a lot of male poets who write amazing stuff and craft love lyrics you’d want to press into your diary pages forever, and whose real love lives are a hot mess. They get a lot of mileage out of their poems, and can suck new women in all the time. Like songwriters, maybe. Just a thought that in time you might see the poetry as a lure, or a way of distracting or appeasing you. If he doesn’t back up the words with action, they’re just … words.
I’m probably jumping a little quickly on this part of your note – it’s a sensitive spot – I see women basing their judgment of guys on this ‘he’s so sensitive and creative’ image all the time. I’ve seen men win hearts and awards for their poignant verse about surviving Balkan wars and still seeing beauty, or their mother’s death, or whatever – and meanwhile at the award party they’re breaking their partner’s heart as they slink off into corners with adoring female fans.
(There are male poets who are lovely people, too, but their women like them because they treat their women well, and have more important qualities than just their way with words.)
Okay, getting off one of my pet hobby horses now.
Vanja,
Stick to it….NC gets easier every day and every day more and more clarity comes. Once you get over the first hurdle it gets easier.
My first break up with my ex NC was so hard, I was literally counting each day….and went back to him after a few months. The second time around was much different…I read Natalie every day and really looked at the relationship with honest eyes. I asked myself the hard questions….why I am with someone I don’t like or respect….maybe because on some level I don’t like or respect myself and I am lonely for a physical connection….I had to take responsibility for my choices and when I did that, when I got real with myself, the allure of being with him just fell away…it just clicked one day….keep at it, you’ll get there….remember it is always darkest before the dawn.
I need to say this publicly….I made a big mistake. Those first few red flags eventually turned into a parade of red banners. I can identify with a previous post from this site, where I was the CSI investigator that gathered evidence, looked at it, but rarely did anything more than just talk to a few girlfriends. I accept responsibility for staying in a relationship that I knew was toxic and unhealthy. Several times I remember the sick feeling of being trapped and that I might as well stay even if all I was getting were scraps, measly little crumbs.
This site has brought encouragement to my spirit, because I have been able to identify with so many things, which in turn has strengthen me. A very big thank you!
Mountain Girl –
I relate totally to that – I collected evidence – but was choosy about the bits I confided in my friends about, as secretly I 1) wasn’t ready to throw the towel in 2) didnt want to admit to them or myself I already knew he was going to vanish.
My first red flag was when I had to contact him after our first date… he shouldn’t have needed even gentle encouragement…..when you ignore one, you have already breached your own boundaries, so that in for a penny mentality has crept in…. you must have made an excuse for him an exception, so you will keep applying it, and all similar flags will be allowed through….
“You are human. You love, you want to be loved and you’re also prone to mistakes. Everyone makes them, even people you think are perfect and ‘better than’ you.”
You’ve no idea how bad I needed to hear that this morning. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I screw up on something at work almost daily and feel awful, like a little child that has been reprimanded and looks at the floor. Anytime I “messed up” at home, I was given that look, talked to in that voice or just all around humiliated and shamed. Today I still struggle with this. And I see others screw up, and outwardly, they look like they’re OK with it while you can visibly see I’m not OK with my folly. So this is good reminder that it is OK to be a human and make mistakes. We all do no matter if you’re the leader of the world or just an everyday person.
Hi all,
I’m reading a wonderful book which is helping me work through some of the anger and frustration I have with myself for engaging (again) with an EUM, believing that we had a future together, and getting hurt. It’s by Kristin Neff, and it’s called “Self Compassion”. The book is easy to read and includes really interesting research and super helpful exercises- highly recommended for anyone trying to offload baggage and forgive themselves for being human/making mistakes!
Izzybell,
I think the next steps after admitting a serious error in judgement are self-compassion and forgiveness. Kristin Neff’s book has been really helpful on both of these fronts.
Cheers.
““I’ve put in too much to go now. It’s 1/3/5/10/X years – that’s just too big to walk away from and I’ve given so much” – this is how mistake dodgers think.”
A couple weeks ago when talking about her relapsing alcoholic crazy making husband of 20 years, a friend of mine said she was not about to give up now that she put in too much time. She does not want anyone else to have him after all the work she’s put into it. Plus, she has children with him. She does not want some other woman reaping the benefits even though she seems so unhappy. This is a global thing. So many of us women (some men too) are ate up with this!!
Natalie is our relationship GPS!
: )
I was discussing this with my best friend last night. This is a prime example of “You live and learn”. You can’t learn if you don’t live. Admitting and accepting blame (some) for our failed relationships brings us (women) a step closer to making better relationship decisions later . Well said Natalie. Bless you!
For Vanja,
I feel for you as I know that level of pain.
What really helped/helps me to stop the incessant chatter of the mind (daily and/or especially during a grieving process) is practicing yoga with deep breathing. Just gently moving the body and breathing deeply calms us and faciliates crying (cleansing). Yoga brings the stuff up that needs to go and is a wonderful way to Honor yourself and the pain.
Hold yourself with Compassion Vanja and don’t be afraid of what may come up. Give yourself the love you are missing in your life!
Sydney,
Thank you for that suggestion. I hadn’t thought of yoga. I thought of self-hypnosis but that didn’t work because I kept thinking of him and never relaxed enough. At this point, I am willing to try anything. I’ve also decided to plan a vacation with my sister and go to a Carribbean Island (something I would have never done before, because he told me he was going to take me one day-yeah right!) I hope by the time the vacation rolls around (September) I am free of this pain or at least able to enjoy myself and not constantly wish my sister was him.
Vanya
I don’t know how bad you are feeling but I had to go on antidepressants and get counselling after my last break up. I did do yoga and I remember clearly putting my forehead down on the mat and STILL THINKING ABOUT HIM. Was there no escape?! It near drove me mad. I missed him in my sleep and the sound of my own crying would wake me up.
Exercise and eating well is really important but sometimes it’s not enough if you’ve got severe anxiety/depression.
I do hope you enjoy your holiday. And I know what you mean – I didn’t want anything to do with people because they weren’t him.
By the way, I’m completely over it now. Sometimes I do wonder how he is and I actually hope he is well and happy, and preferably not breaking any hearts. I wouldn’t want anyone else to go through the same. So, yeah, I’d be perfectly happy if he DID give a woman after me the relationships he never gave me. But key to it all is that I will never know. Ah peace.
I am thankful for the experience I had with the EUM b/c it (finally) brought to light the importance of sympathy and empathy, and how I will never want to associate with people who don’t have those 2 qualities, for real.
It’s very hard to find people who have good hearts and their houses in order. Anyone who doesn’t appreciate and treat well a decent human being who has their s*&t together is a person who hates themselves.
These people lack decency. Period. Don’t get fooled into thinking they are decent, when the evidence clearly points to their not being decent!
A wise older lady once told me, when I was still dating: go where you are wanted. I apply this rule now to my friendships. And, if I am not wanted when the ex-AC and/or his wife are around, then that tells me a lot about those who don’t want me around: they aren’t considering my feelings; so, as b/w us, the friendship will be limited–I won’t go stretching my neck out.
And, yes, Grace, their existence in your life in any way shape or form serves as a constant reminder of the girl you were when you were with them, the girl who didn’t stand up for herself and ask questions or make demands–whatever the circumstances. Even (and especially) is the circumstances are inappropriate and/or weird, that is ESPECIALLY when you need to do some legwork and stand up and/or ask–don’t let your ego get in the way! After all, they ARE asking you out. You ARE on a date–they know that one of the interpretations for why they are with you is “date”. Why the hell NOT ask?
@ Minky @Grace
i reall love this site my native language is german but i try hard to understand here lol and if i write comments i hopefully can make it understandable lol
so i absolutely agree with you both
overanalizing is nothing good as you both point out
sometimes it better to see things as they are and not to put too much understanding sights in them…..
Like : he doesnt call……..very easy he doesnt wana hear me and talk to me
Like: Why doesnt he apologize? ……..Easy answer……he thinks he is right…….
Why why why lol No overanalazing is not good
Sometimes it is what it is. Nothing more or less otherwise we justify behaviour that is just unrespectfull.
What i meant mainly was that its important to see why we let us treat in certain ways again and again.
We tend to repeat patterns with bosses,partners etc.where we need to reflect our own behaviour to change relations in better ones.
Ty for you responses i hope i could explain well.
simone
Yes, you explained it well. I’m an analytical person . I used to think that I “owed” it to people to try to understand them. That was fine when I was working with children, training people and in customer service/sales. But it’s taken a very long time time to realise that I don’t owe that consideration to someone who lets me down, breaks promises, and worse. Or sometimes they do hardly anything (like talk about me behind my back) and I try to figure out why cos I think it’s my fault.
My counsellor used a term which wasn’t professional but very apt to describe how I should deal with these matters: “F*** ‘em”. Brilliant. Simple is best.
I think I need a wake up call as to why my ex from 5 years ago is the ass he has always been. Dating an old ex friend of mine and I seem to be comparing myself to her all the time. Comparing my failing relationship to her so called happy one. I should have known of the red flags when on our second date he chose to ignore me because of a joke I said and didn’t even call or picked up my calls for three days, and when I asked if he had anything to say, he said NO! Ugh…I could have saved myself the heartache and not even think about him dating someone else now. Someone who I trusted and who is so happy with him as she says through her blogs and Tweets. But I have dated a pattern of EUMs and I need to realize that I deserve better. Thank God I am taking therapy now and thank you Nat for being so on point when it comes to these topics. Finding this site is making me stronger day by day! =)
Thank you NML! This was such a timely post! I have been literally beating myself to death this last month about having been with my ex. I read this post and heaved a huge sigh of relief. It is ok to just admit that I made an error in judgement. I got future faked to the fullest, and I internalized everything as being my fault, cause after all we think, “how could this person who loved me so much suddenly be gone over a simple arguement. I must have done something really bad!” The case was he was a future faker and I made an error in my choice of him.
Ouch. Reading this, I am amazed by my ability to “stick it out no matter what”. I will stay in relationships until ALL feelings for the guy are gone. It usually takes years before I let go. This recent AC has been one of the hardest to let go of – probably because I at least think I still have feelings for him.
I did not leave my husband for 13 years. I did not leave him until I felt nothing for him. My then therapist called it “profound ambivalence”. So, yea that is great for me in regards to him, especially since we have kids and I have to deal with him a lot.
So, my question for you NML, or anyone who may know?? is how do I get to that ‘profound ambivalence’ with the ex AC … quickly? I’m doing better than I ever have with NC, and I’m proud of that at least. But I really, really want to cut the emotional cord I have attached to this guy. Honestly, it should not be this freaking hard! He is a jerk. Any ideas? Thanks.
Annied, interesting question but I think you have your processes the wrong way round.
You see, when you realise that you are incompatible whether it’s because they’re unavailable, they’re an asshole, or you both want different things – values, you leave. The period after you break up is to grieve the loss of the relationship and reach the point of having no feelings.
You Annied try to do all that IN the relationship while also still trying to flog that donkey till it collapses, get him to make you the exception to the rule and repeatedly putting your hand in the fire. That’s why it takes you so long – if you don’t acknowledge and accept that you make a mistake, leave, and accept what’s happened, you don’t let go, so you remain invested.
Having no feelings left for someone isn’t the *only* reason to end a relationship. Having no self-esteem and no *relationship* is enough of a reason to leave in itself.
NML, you are right. I do try to do it all during the relationship – from beginning to end and at the same time I’m hanging on for dear life. I have no idea why I do that. Talk about punishing myself!
Well now it’s time to try to figure out why I do the things I do. Who am I? What makes me tick? What do I want? All these things I really do not know. I have spent my life trying to figure everybody ELSE out. Never myself. I thought I knew who I was.
It is a scary ocean in front of me now. Who would have guessed I’m afraid of myself? Wow.
annied
I did it too. I would stay in a relationship until it was was worse than a collapsed donkey. It was a zombie donkey. Completely depressing experience for everyone involved.
For me, may be it’s different for you, I was just incapable of making difficult emotional decisions. As a kid I didn’t get to choose anything – not clothes, toys, or activities. Add physical and emotional abuse to that, I just didn’t think I had choices. I just rolled with the punches (literally). It is tough to end a relationship but it’s really not fair on either of you to wait until you’re completely sick of the person because you want to avoid the breakup pain.
Nat to Annied:
“Having no self-esteem and no *relationship* is enough of a reason to leave in itself.”
Yes. I see that now. I too would stay in a relationship – or chase one – on the grounds that I really really liked him or that I would just really really want it to work out or I really really wanted him to love me back. Absurd, now that I see it.
But Annied. I think you also have the “profound ambivalence” thing the wrong way round. Your therapist meant that the reason you didn’t leave your husband for 13yrs was because of your “profound ambivalence”, which means roughly the same as ‘entrenched indecision’ or being stuck ‘on the fence’ or being unable to act because you cannot commit to one thing or the other – staying or leaving – being “profoundly ambivalent” is to be ‘paralysed’, so to speak, because you are incapable of committing to either of the options. So you definitely do NOT want to get to “profound ambivalence” with the AC! – quite the reverse (or you’ll still be in it for another 13yrs!). What you need to do is MAKE a decision to get out and get right behind that decision. BTW “profound ambivalence” is the stuff that the emotionlly unavailable (EU) person is made of. This is at the heart of the problem with these people… they are riddled with ambivalence, which is why we say that the woman who complains about an EU boyfriend is also EU – like attracts like, so that it takes two EU people to entrench themselves in a painful EU ‘relationship’
Sorry… another thought on that: Annied, the reason you are able to walk once you have no feelings left is because your ambivalence is resolved; you are not caught betenn two options anymore and making the decision to go does not leave you anxious in turmoil or emotionally uncomfortable.
In terms of this article, I think the ambivalence point is worth mentioning… because it IS this that causes our lack of action. The thing that keeps us (and Mr EU) stuck in such an uncomfortable limbo land. I have come to understand that I am/was EU as well (though of the passive sort) and that my own ambivalence in many areas of life is one that I need to address if I am to 1) forgive myself and forgive him 2) Never be here again!
Not getting myself out of the shitty relationship with the EU was pure procrastination. And I procrastinate about everything!! If it can be put off – it will be! So, I hope now that I can see what’s going on with me in more areas than just the relationship thing. BTW, this is why waiting for the EU to get with you is a waste of your time – he simply CAN’T! He is procrastination personified! He is ‘profoundly and intractably ambivalent’
I’ve always been persistent in my life with everything I’ve wanted: education, material things, men, experiences, friends…and my standards have always been high. That has translated into my “favorite mistake,” the relentless “chasing” of my EUMM. The combination of the challenge he presented, his free-spirited surfer boy persona and the accomplishments of his very talented children (pedestal, please!) blinded me to the red flags flying like a field of poppies. My mistake was focusing on those superficial things that don’t translate to diddly squat for me and a relationship. I’m realizing that my perfectionism and persistence does not translate into other people morphing into what and who you want them to be. He flat out wanted me only for sex, used me up and then discarded me in a deceitful, hurtful way. There, I said it. I am responsible for ignoring clear signs and for even seeking the attentions of a married man. Maybe being able to admit my culpability will lead me to the acceptance and forgiveness I desperately seek. Thank you, Natalie, for keeping it real for me and the BR ladies.
That is so me, just yesterday I was beating myself up over staying in such a relationship, but I didn’t KNOW that it was a very toxic relationship back then, I was only 19 and I really haven’t had much experience (I’m 20 now) I was completely blinded an completely in denial, my self-esteem was shattered, he was like my oxygen when he’s gone I felt so horrible, I’m so thankful I found your blog Natalie, he is totally off that pedestal I see him for who he really is now & I no longer want anything to do with him, he made my life hell, I understand all his mind games now, that “thing” that was so special about him was that he knew exactly how to get to me he knew how my mind worked and knew exactly what to do to keep me paralyzed in that relationship, not so special after all! Infact if anything it’s the most disgusting quality I’ve ever came across, this website is my safe place my comfort zone my reality check! I’m NC 2 days now (broke up 3 months ago) and I needed such a site so badly, every post you post is an “aha” moment, I discover so much about myself and I feel so much better, and to see so many women also went through what I’m going through, it’s amazing..!
Vanja, it gets easier, somewhere between 2-3months no contact you start to feel normal.
My ex, was one of those people whose words and actions were on two different planets. I’ve always expected men to treat me well, never put up with crap. One time I had a chat with my ex, ready to break up with him and before finding BR, I actually said to him I can’t understand, you have so many red flags and normally I’d run a mile but I can’t understand why I haven’t.”
So he took my hands in his, looked me in the eye and said “I love you, I want to be with you, I want us to have a future together.”…and just like that, I caved again, for the upteenth time. He kept saying I love you, till the end. But you know what, it doesn’t matter how many times he told me he loves me and that he will always there for me. Again and again, it was all words, his actions were in the opposite direction. I didn’t think someone could look me in the eye and lie, but they can! WORDS are what SALESPEOPLE use, it’s all about ACTIONS! One more thing,
if you don’t learn from your mistakes you’ll repeat them, which is exhausting! If I can help one person be strong, that’ll make me happy.
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