When I listen to people discuss their relationships, particularly with regard to exes, I realise that those who have unhealthy relationship beliefs and behaviours are inclined to have a ‘claimant’ mentality. You’ll know this all too well if you’ve ever been with Mr/Miss Unavailable – back off when you want them, chase you down when you tell them to take a run and jump or they see you trying to move on with their lives. Then you go and take them back after all of their desperation, grand gestures, and promises to change, only to find yourself back at square one days, weeks, or months later, or even for them to disappear as soon as they get confirmation that you still want them.
It’s as if by getting involved with a ‘claimant’, that unbeknownst to you, you’re entering into a contract where you sign over your relationship rights and provide them with the option to swan back into your life at any time irrespective of what you want and regardless of whether they’ve even earned the right to think that they should have any space in your life. The likelihood is that the more that you’ve pumped them up by overextending yourself for them and the more poorly you’ve been treated is the more entitled they feel to their claim.
You would think that this ‘claimant mentality’ only extended itself to relationships, but I know people who still get calls, emails, and texts from people that they had one date with five years ago after meeting them on a dating site, who seem to think that they can show up anytime and pick up where they left off or just tap them up for an ego stroke or a shag.
There’s a level of arrogance involved with this along with some ego issues that suggest that their self-esteem is founded on the ability to amass ‘property’ and access it for validation or to avail themselves of goods at their disposal … even if they don’t treat the ‘property’ right.
Of course, this territorial sense of ownership is largely about control – “I touch it, I own it. I sleep with it, I own it. You expressed interest in me, I own you … even if I’m not really that interested in you. Someone else wants you, I’m now interested, I have to own you.” When a ‘claimant’ experiences something going awry in another area of their lives (maybe one of their ‘properties’ knocks them back, or they attempt a takeover and get rejected), you’ll notice that they check in on their ‘assets’ which gives them the illusion of being in control and validates their ego.
Claimants associate feeling out of control with desire, so of course when you’re behaving as expected, they lose their ‘relationship erection’.
What is of course completely bonkers about this, is that the claimant’s seem to think they wipe out all of your prior involvements and that they can liberally erase or cock up any subsequent involvements. It gets even more bonkers if you’ve been with several claimant’s so they all seem to feel that they have ‘rights’, are holding on to their ‘key’, but they’re not actually willing to occupy a mutually fulfilling relationship with love, care, trust, respect, and shared values.
They desire you when they feel in danger of losing you or when someone else expresses interest – you tell them to step up or let you go, only for them to step back once they’ve secured ‘control’ and validation again. They feel territorial but what they don’t seem to feel and demonstrate is love, care, trust, and respect. They want to own you but they don’t want to truly value you.
Claimants assume that:
You’re besotted with them.
You’ve never got over them.
Even if they effed you over and broke your heart fifty years ago, that they have a right to another shot when they demand it and that you’ve been fannying away your life waiting for a rejection retraction and reconciliation.
If they’ve decided to feel bad about their past actions, that you must be consumed by thoughts of them, and are still hugely impacted and waiting on them.
You’ll ego stroke and listen to their problems.
They still know the right moves.
You’re still horny for them.
You think they’re the best you’ve ever had and nobody ‘gives it to you’ as good as them.
Nobody has ever measured up in character to them.
They make your life oh so much better, even with their crumbs.
They have the right to lose interest or park it, only to resurrect their interest when someone new is sniffing around you.
They have a right to pee a ring around you and block parties they know from approaching you.
Claimant’s, often without truly realising it, have delusions of grandeur. They’re living off this premise that everything is about them and that even if they’ve had you on a crumb diet, that they’ve been stuffing you with golden loaves.
You are not someone’s medal or trophy that reminds them of how great they are or how they can’t be ‘that bad’, nor are you a discarded plaything, an unreturned library book, or furniture and bric-a-brac with a cloth over it in a dusty attic. You certainly shouldn’t allow yourself to be the mannequin in someone’s House Of Ego Horror’s.
They don’t own you just like you don’t own anyone else. This means that you shouldn’t be selling yourself down the river to the lowest bidder and settling for less than you deserve.
Claimants never step up and treat you right. After a while, they make enough claims on you that they feel confident that they’re in no true danger of losing you. This is when you notice that their chasing efforts get feebler and lazier.
Whenever there is a sense of ownership, particularly when there is no actual relationship or they don’t treat you as a valuable, worthwhile person, you know that not only are you not in a mutual relationship, but this person is not the one for you. Control including jealousy and possessiveness isn’t love; it’s control.
The key thing in all of this though is that you shouldn’t render yourself helpless by behaving like someone else’s property. When it’s over, it’s over - don’t allow people to continue to enjoy the same access to you and certainly don’t remain open to the possibility of them coming back because it makes you unavailable for an available relationship. Next time, it’s petition for the claimant denied – next!
Your thoughts?
PS If you want to see a claimant in action and are in the UK, check out Spencer Matthews on Made In Chelsea
Your thoughts?
The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship is now available from my bookshop along with with Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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god, LOOK at all of us, so much pain and suffering.
ok, this may be *the dorkiest* thing i’ve ever said but… i have to. …no, i’m *choosing* to:
i’m sending all of my love out to all BR readers in the hopes that it may comfort you and solidify the ground under your feet, on which NML encourages us all to stand proudly.
i know. its ok to laugh. that was pretty dorky.
CC,
Actually that was sweet. And comforting. Myself and many others appreciate it. As bad as things can seem sometimes, it’s stuff like that that reminds us that though many of us are going through some rough stuff, there’s still a lot of kindness in the world.
In addition to reading Natalie’s blog, I recommend spending time in sunshine and exercising, they therapeutic. Cups of warm tea. Chocolate….And spending time with family and friends, maybe a bit more than usual. Talking to a trusted family member or friend about things also helps. Sending good thoughts your way and to all the rest of the BR readers as well. *HUGS*
Natalie,I’m trying so hard to be strong. I’ve known my EUM for yrs and we were friends first. I loved him so much and he has taken me on a roller coaster ride,caused me so much pain by making promises and breaking them faster than I can blink. The last time he suddenly cut off contact with me without givin me a clue after he had promised yet again not to hurt me and dat he was going to leave his gf,that she was d one who was all clingy and obssessed. I moved on and now he came back justrecently trying to press d reset button. I ignored his requet on bbm,ignored his call but later returned it cos I wanted to suck it n see. He promised to see me but then I thoght to myself whoa! I’ve treaded dis path before,I then sent him a text telling him to stop disrespecting me n dat he shouldn’t contact me if he had no plans of doing the right thing. And I don’t think its an ultimatum,or a cry for attention. God knows he thinks I don’t av d spine n I’ve bluffed in d past. But I’m simply fed up. Why do I keep believing he would change? Frankly I’m tired Natalie. I don’t know what else to do. Any ideas?
Cameron, you may have been friends first but you cannot preserve the friendship and you cannot preserve the crappy relationship. He assumed that because you were friends first, you knew what he was like. You assumed that because you were friends first that he’d treat you better. He hasn’t. Stop trying to force him to be and do something that he’s not capable of. It will remove your dignity. You tried to be with each other, it didn’t work out and sometimes the cost of that is friendship. Right now he’s a shit friend and an ever shitter boyfriend. Stop explaining, stop justifying, stop giving him chances, stop making excuses and let him go. You can get another boyfriend and another friend – you cannot get another you.
Thank you so much Natalie. Your accurate dissection of every dysfunctional relationship has really helped me go a long way. I’m not there yet but I know I will soon get there. Its hard when you love someone and they do things that you wouldn’t dream of doing to them and its harder when a part of you still wants dem back. I’m going to let him go for my own happiness. If lovin him means I can’t love me,ill choose me. There is really no other choice
I’ve hit 100 days NC today……just realised, can’t believe I’ve made it this far.
But still at the back of my mind I’m feeling just that little bit disappointed that he hasn’t attempted to come back and claim me……why?
I have another therapy session booked this week, thank goodness.
Miranda, hard to say without knowing your history, but assuming you identify with this site, it’s become clear from lots of people here that those claims can happen months and years, even decades in the future. I know the EUM I was dealing with lived on a very different calendar, even when he was really into someone could quite happily forget them for months because he didn’t get emotionally invested. That’s not to say you should wait around for him if you’re genuinely NC! But just that it doesn’t have any reflection on you.
Plus, if it’s an assclown, they seem to have an amazing knack for pulling your strings, will not get in touch if you really don’t want them to (or seem not to) because it’s a risk to their ego, but also won’t get in touch if you really *do* want them to, they have to try to build up their power and your admiration for the next go-around, when they catch you unawares!
I have that disappointment too – there was a very lame attempt at contact very early on and nothing at all since my even lamer response. You’d expect a bit of effort after all that time! And who doesn’t want to be pursued, but really it’s our ego talking. We made a choice that they should not be involved in our lives, mission accomplished and time to focus on ourselves. But natural to feel disappointed. It’s because he’s a disappointment anyway. It will get easier.
Hi Miranda,
My ex told me when we broke up in May last year that he just needed some time to sort things out and would be “ready” in the Fall. He wanted me to wait around and hang in there, I told him I couldn’t/wouldn’t.
Even so, when the Fall came and went, I felt pretty disappointed not to hear from him. Somewhere in my mind, I still thought we would be together, and that he would work on his stuff and come back ready to be fully available.
After 7 months he sent me a letter. When I read it I thought, “this is what I’ve been waiting all these months for?!” Nothing’s changed, he is the same self centered, weak, clueless victim as he was when we broke up.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, whether your ex comes back to claim you or not (and mine tried to, in his lame-ass way), it doesn’t matter unless something fundamental has changed, and the likelihood of someone/something changing that much is almost nonexistent. It’s over, done, and for a good reason– probably if and when he does reach out it will be on his terms and far from what you need and deserve!
Congratulations on making it to 100 days!
Thanks so much Izzybell, I totally agree with everything you say.
Just been listening to an old CD I found in my car, the soundtrack to one of my favourite films ‘Jerry McGuire’….one track in particular is so apt for all fallback girls and people involved with EUM’s/Assclowns: Aimee Mann, Wise Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn7F75stXxI
Take a listen, beautiful song and good advice!!
I’m so glad I wised up!!!
Congrats Miranda!! It gets easier with time. He hasn’t attempted to come back again because he knows he won’t get away his BS anymore. You are wise to him and now you’re a much harder target. When you hit 200 days NC you’ll be thanking your lucky stars he didn’t come back! Keep going, you’re doing great!!
Thanks happy beginning and RML
Yes you’re so right, he has in the past always returned when I’ve least expected it ‘and caught me unawares’…….this time though is different, I have far more knowledge of his shitty behaviour with women and he knows it…like you said RML, he knows he may not get away with it anymore.
I think I’m feeling a bit down because the ‘friendly nice guy at work’ revealed yesterday he has a girlfriend and I felt really disappointed!!!
Oh well……keep looking and defo keeping to NC….200 days here I come.
Thanks for the kind words girls x
I have hit 365 days of NC today! FLUSH!
Congratulations t_of_a!
I was in the yo-yo-est of yo-yo relationships for over 6 years and went NC for good and flushed him 6 weeks ago. Since it has been a year for you, may I ask whether you feel he still has a significant claim on you due to your own thoughts since you are a regular here after a year? Even though my ex is contacting me sporadically, I know my issue isn’t about HIM making a claim anymore. It is about reprogramming MY thoughts and I now want him out of my mind and to take my life back in every regard. I guess it’s early after so long together but I feel like he is still taking up way too much space in my brain that he doesn’t deserve and hope dearly that after a year he won’t be claiming anything!
Since it has been a year for you, may I ask whether you feel he still has a significant claim on you due to your own thoughts since you are a regular here after a year?
Well in my case, after my non-breakup from my non-relationship (what a joy to realise it was that – NOT!), I had the luxury that my AC went NC with me because we had tried the ‘let’s be friends’ route for 8-10 weeks and it was in that phase that caused HUGE amounts of damage and pain. I had walked out on them, and that was really the AC’s tripping point where he cut me out of his life and I couldn’t go back, even though I later tried to.
I’m not going to lie, I have major fantasy issues as a result of domestic violence and emotional isolation and bullying in school. Sometimes the fantasy does come back, particularly if I’ve just dated someone (BR readers saw this in action as I was hyperventilating over whether a text would come in for my date), but most of all, I just have to be really aware.
Does he have a claim? Well sometimes I think if he was all nicey nice and he came back, I’d be tempted, but seriously I’d get upset and have panic attacks/feel sick/faint just even thinking about his photo, so, er, unlikely.
Oh, and I’ve asked someone new out – will arrange a 1st date soon! He’s much more boring but I think that’s what I need after all this drama.
Congratulations Miranda
A flush to you! Just be happy that he hasn’t come back – this is a luxury that I have but many others don’t. Just ask the people being bombarded with e-mails, texts, instant messenger, doorstep performances, stalking…
What you’re saying is “I can’t believe he isn’t stalking me, why isn’t he abusing me anymore?” When we put our value into someone elses hands, it can feel like, ‘didn’t they care’. (No they didn’t…).
Happy Flushing!
I haven’t read this column for a couple of weeks, but when I come back this topic is just what I needed to see! I posted before about the long drawn out story, so I won’t go into it. But, I broke it off (again) using a “good reason” (he once again blew off my birthday) because I just can’t take feeling so uncared for but at the same time being told “You know I love you.”
I thought of things Natalie has said when he left me a message on my phone “Whether its today or tomorrow or whenever, I would like to come and see you” I usually would have thought “oh see, he loves me so much, and forever”
But with open eyes I realize what he is saying is “I can come back anytime, and I know you will invite me back because you love me too much to let me really go, but you will have to make the move so I won’t feel bad later because I didn’t lower my pride or promise you anything. YOU CALLED ME”
It kind of made me sick to my stomach at that realization. And for a couple of weeks before, I realized that the few crumbs of his time he was giving me was not fun, I actually felt more myself and more happy when he wasn’t around! A shocker for me. So, a few times I said “I don’t like you anymore” when he said some dick thing and he thought I was kidding. I said “No, really” but he said “you would cry if I left” and just laughed it off.
But I know he figures he will wait it out. Just like in our “relationship”, he doesn’t really care if he sees me today or in 6 months, it is all the same to him. Don’t get me wrong, I admit I’m crying over this and checking my phone for messages all day. I’m getting so sick of myself. Any thoughts?
Read as much of this website’s posts as you can, especially the mantras (that’s what I call them) on boundaries and stuff like that (one of them has 100 of them). I have been there, I so have been there (just one month ago I was neck deep there), but I was led here by a friend and I kept reading the posts and one of them hit me really hard and a string just snapped and I could see clearly again. That’s my thought.
I think that this song by Christina Perry, Jar of Hearts, mentioned earlier by freeatlast could be the official song of this website! The lyrics certainly hit home for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v_4O44sfjM
BC: As you said yourself the longer you are not around him the better you will feel. Cold turkey is painful but better than a long drawn out “half-life”.
Yes, no contact is the best way to happiness from my experience (and I love Jar of Hearts, Hope, it completely is a good representation of what this site is about). I played that video for days the first month I was away from my current ex. I really am not his ghost anymore, and don’t ever want to be again.
Nice post Hope. I loved the song. Folks have certainly been here and done this. I kept wanting to think “our” situation was unique. It isn’t based on Nat’s posts, all the comments, and songs to the contrary. Frig. Sorry BC, your situation is tracking perfectly.
Here’s a great ziggy marley song…my fav. Got to be true to myself…I used to hum along. Then I heard the words! http://youtu.be/ikzQmC3S-mE. If the link doesn’t work, google ziggy marley, got to be true to myself. “I’m tired of all these lies and games. I’ve’ reached a point…. Got to be true to myself”. I think this one is the banner BR song. This one has got to be the BR song.
Youtube Alex Clare – Too Close, it gets me everytime, stupid Microsoft ad! As for the Jar of Hearts, thats what my ex had started listening to alot before we officially ended, that and ‘Somebody I used to know’ now I hate that song. I feel like it was what he was using to try and feel better about it all.
Eye opener!!! And all this time I thought the ex that called me back was doing so because i wowed him in bed and he couldn’t get over me( I’m serious!). Thanks, Natalie!
Trust me, my head was in the same clouds. I’m serious too. These AC’s use the same tired lines day in and day out. The exMM just emailed how much he can’t get over me and “we are not not done”. I emailed him ziggy marley…”I’m moving on”. Haven’t heard anything since. He, he, he. He’ll just find a new victim to meet his needs while going on on a cruise with his wife in celebration of their 20-something anniversary. Glad I’m not that smuck.
runnergirl, You’re still engaging with him? Sending him a rebuttal seems like looking for validation to me. Am I missing something? I’m confused since you seem to advocate NC. Why do you even know what he’s doing with his wife for their anniversary? I get the impression it really isn’t “He, he, he” to you in a good way in spite of your gloating words because you are choosing to continue to interact with the source of your pain.
Honestly, one of the best things about NC for me is that I don’t have a clue what my ex is doing – ever! Except when he makes his occasional lame attempts at contact which I totally ignore, I wouldn’t know he was alive.
FX
That’s how I feel too. I dread the thought of hearing from him. Even thinking about it gives me a sick feeling. If you reply you’re feeding the dog, and references to “moving on” I would guess would make a man think “new partner” and trigger the jealous/competitive/ territorial behaviour, make them try harder to get you back.
FX
I think runner’s ‘anniversary cruise’ remark is something the ex MM did when he was seeing runner, rather than what she knows he is doing now.
Runner, just another lame guy sending another lame email to tell another woman how serious he is about her. If they were serious they wouldn’t be sending emails/texts, at a safe distance, hiding behind their computers and their phones – they’d be too busy being serious about her.
I agree, the best course of action would have been not to respond at all – that gets the ‘moving on’ message across more plainly than an answer of any kind. However, I understand the impulse – if my ex EUM contacted me I would find it very hard to say nothing. Hearing about your ex emailing you his guff does make me see that I am better off not being put in that position. Silence is golden. These guys can never put their money where their mouths are (emails and texts, that is)
Hi FX, “Except when he makes his occasional lame attempts at contact which I totally ignore, I wouldn’t know he was alive.”
I agree. Don’t really want to know about my exMM and his shenanigans. He’s a colossal jerk and I was deranged to get involved with him.
However, even tho I’ve deleted his contact info long ago from my phone, I received a text last week from his number on a random topic-a sport he’s involved in. I deleted, of course, but wtf? Is this seriously a mistake? I felt angry and annoyed; “Why does he still have my number on his phone?”
Every four-five months or so, it seems he fishes for contact either from a “secret” number I won’t recognize or now, from his own cell. Bleech.
Hi FX, I don’t have a clue about the exMM and what he’s doing. I see my comment was confusing. The anniversary comment was in regards to the first year we were together not now. Also the email response was a while back as well when I ran into him at an event and he tried to hit the reset button and stake his claim. I know I shouldn’t have responded but I couldn’t resist. It’s over though.
runnergirl,
People have moved on have actually MOVED ON, they don’t waste their time telling their ex about it. He is right that you are not done and he knows it because you still continue to engage with him.
I don’t mean to be harsh but I’ve been watching this go on with you and him since we found BR at around the same time.
You aren’t the schmuck going on the cruise, you are the shmuck who continues to jump when baited, and somehow convincing yourself you are not. I wonder if you are confusing the ego-boost you get when you tell him off with true power?
Are you telling yourself you are NC when you clearly aren’t, again?
What’s it going to take for you to stop engaging in the power play dynamic with the MM?
Did you forward the email to his wife like you promised you would?
What. Are. You. Doing??
runner
There’s something that many if not all us are doing or have done – we’re looking to someone to validate us who will not do it. Even if it’s just the satisfaction of giving him the brush off. I absolutely understand the little kick we get from doing that but don’t fuel it. I would let that be your last response and recalibrate to “ignore”. You may still get a kick out of ignore but, over time, it means less and less.
It doesn’t matter how great we think we are, or how many men fancy us, or what our friends, family and coworkers say, we only care about what HE says/does and only because HE isn’t saying it or doing it. If he started saying/doing it, I don’t know what we would do but we pick such no-hopers that none of us here has been able to tell the tale of the EUM that turned good.
You want to win something you can’t have. But runner, by definition, you can’t have it. I’m not saying you want him anymore, but you seem to want something from his direction.
Everytime now I see the crush I am a bit disappointed that he doesn’t make a move. I’ve thought about it and the obsession is not coming from the usual suspects that he’s tall, good looking, funny, kind etc. (but not charming thank God). I am bothered specifically because he is not interested.
Yesterday, I said out loud to myself “I AM NOT DOING THIS UNREQUITED LOVE THING AGAIN”
Thankfully, I haven’t stepped out of line with my behaviour. The barminess has been restricted to my mind and I’m overcoming it. For days at a time now I am calm and for hours at a time I don’t think about him. This is a massive improvement from a month ago – I know cos I’ve been diarising it. NC is not appropriate for my situation. A part of me wishes it was because NC is straightforward and I’ve done it so many times now with the Multiple Flush of 2010-2011 that I know how it goes. But it is appropriate for you.
I got a book that fearless recommended “he’s scared, she’s scared”. As a back up to Nat’s books it gives helpful insight into something many of us would deny but I hope not to our dying day – we pick commitment phobic men because we are commitment phobic ourselves. It may be worth a read.
And when Nat’s fantasy book is available on kindle, I’ll be getting it, thanks for the rec.
runner
I just picked up your update. Glad this was a while ago. I redirect my comment to … me.
You are a very funny lady Grace. I appreciate your comment and you can direct it back to me. I need all the help I can get! I see now that when I responded to his email (a while back), it was because of the arrogance, control, and sense of entitlement Natalie describes in this post and I reacted without thinking. His giant ego just made my blood boil. He’s not swanning into my life again and I’m not swanning into his life again either. I know no response is the best response and even saying eff you is not good. I quickly re calibrated to ignore.
I’m glad to hear that the you are not headed down the unrequited love path again and that the thoughts about the Crush are easing up a bit. I’m sorry he’s not interested but it’s certainly better to know that up front as you know.
The book you mention sounds familiar. I’ll check it out next. I most certainly was commitment phobic and as unavailable as they come, coupled with self-esteem that was in the toilet, I remember consciously thinking, on more than one occasion, “oh well, at least I won’t end up married again” and “at least he doesn’t get in my way or expect much”. Swear to god, I thought that. I was about as EUW as they come.
Natalie’s new book is fantastic. Every time I hit a section on crushes, I think of you. BTW, Mr. Stud Muffin hasn’t been back to the gym. He probably changed gyms because of me….only joking!
Sunshine, thanks for the rap on the head. I shouldn’t have responded. You are right if I’ve moved on, I don’t need to inform him. I am not getting involved with him and/or his wife and I don’t want the drama associated with forwarding the email. She’s been through enough and I’m truly done. Finally even a stubborn Taurus discovered there’s really nothing behind the door. Thank you! PS. I wondered if it was you.
Grace:
“NC is not appropriate for my situation.”
I’m not entirely sure about that, Grace. This crush seems to be causing you a lot of angst.
Yesterday, I said out loud to myself “I AM NOT DOING THIS UNREQUITED LOVE THING AGAIN”
For the past wee while it’s been sounding like this is exactly what you are/have been doing (I know you’re working on it). I’ve been reading Nat’s fantasy relationship book; I think it will be a good help to you – there’s a chapter on crushes (I am finding it scarily enlightening.) I wish you the very best (I hope that’d go without saying)
@ Fearless, Grace
I also read, “He’s Scared, She’s Scared,” at your recommendation.
It was helpful to me because it breaks down commitment phobics into “active” (yeah, you guessed it, Mr. U) and “passive” (mostly women like me) and details their behaviors as the relationship cycles. I had more than a few “Ah ha!” moments.
It never made sense to me before that men run just when the relationship is getting good, and this and Nat’s books helped me to understand the fear & anxiety that closeness provokes.
The last few chapters were great as well, advocating and providing tips on self-care.
your posts are excellent.. i read them everyday and am always so uplifted and empowered. My perspective is always altered for the better, you can turn it around.
thankyou
Jar of Hearts, perfect – it just tells the story for many of us. I was just listening to this today and thought that. I’ve really started to see a way forward since reading all these posts. There are so many lovely women who have been jerked around and we are strong enough and wonderful enough to move on from these men who don’t deserve all this attention.
Hi everyone, and thanks for posting. I just saw my MM for what’s supposed to be the last time for three months. The story’s too long to recap well, but suffice it to say he lied for a couple of years about being married until he got caught by his wife and I, breaking up with me monthly with a bunch of elaborate lies before that. They decided to try to reconcile, but he came back again 6 weeks ago, telling me an accident had made him “see the light” about wanting to be with me. I immediately dropped the nice man I’d started seeing for him. He’s been future faking (I defined FFing for him, and now he catches himself doing it all the time, btw) and said it would be a matter of weeks before he filed for divorce. Last week he changed the story. Now he needs more time, and asked me to give him until the end of the summer to make a clean departure, so that he doesn’t burn bridges with his family, wife, kids, etc, who all know he had an affair with me. We decided not to see one another during the interim, and he says he can be in only sporadic contact because he needs me as a “lifeline” (more like he needs to hit the reset button), but doesn’t want to sneak around. He asked me not to be physical with any other men during that time. At first I agreed, then said I could make no promises, which he made me feel guilty about. I know I’m not wrong here. He can’t meet my emotional or physical needs until he’s free, and has lied so many times and pushed back deadline after deadline since I’ve known him; I don’t trust that he’ll even come through if I wait. He’s done this about 8 times. But I’m so sad. I feel like I’m going to have to answer to him and feel bad if I’m not faithful, but I also know how lonely I’ve been throughout our relationship. I feel like I’m being put up on a shelf to be claimed at a later date. I want to believe him again but the prospect of wasting more time makes me miserable.
Stella,
I am sorry, but, as you say yourself, he probably will not leave his wife. Because he has made all these promises in the past and has reneged on them. I also think that sometimes when there has been so much emotional damage with someone, it cannot be healed. Even if he ever did leave his wife for you, you would not be able to be happy with him. I’m not saying once a cheater, always a cheater (although he has done an unusually massive amount of lying!) as such, though that can happen, but he has just hurt you too much and too often, and nothing will take away the association of pain with him.
Stella, this man is full of shit. He is also married = He is UNavailable. And so are you if this type of relationship is attractive to you. Emotionally available women who have their feet planted in reality run a mile from this kind of stuff.
He doesn’t want to sneak around? Is he kidding! He has demonstrated quite clearly that he has no problem with sneaking around. That’s what he been doing for the three years until he got busted.
He’s “seen the light”. Who does he think he’s kidding?! (you maybe?) He’s still married, living with his wife. You need to see the light, Stella – you think his wife knows he’s “intending” to leave her in three months?
He needs you as a “lifeline”?! He has no business needing you as a lifeline or anything else. What he needs you for is to pop in and out of your life for an ego stroke (and whatever else your offering) when he feels like it on the back of his empty promises. What are you, a doormat?
He does NOT want to keep you on the shelf “until a later date” (‘later date’ has come and gone a hundred times!) – He is simply keeping you on a shelf. Full stop. That’s your lot. The shelf. Why not do something radical and jump off the shelf?
Read Natalie’s “The dreamer and the fantasy relationship” book. You are waiting and dreaming for something that doesn’t exist (other than a cheating, lying manipulative arsehole) and you are in a thick fog of fantasy. Start to register the reality. Start calling the shots with this guy. He hasn’t done what he said he would do. He has no credibility at all – why are you still waiting and maintaining yourself in a holding pattern for this clown? You need to get to the bottom of that. And read Nat’s posts on all of this, e.g. “There’s no Such Thing as An Honest Cheat.”
You think your going to be the exception – you’re not. get on with your own life and apply NC on this cheater. Good luck.
Stella, this guy sounds really messed up. I am sure that in his own way he does love you and that he does sometimes think that he really wants to be with you but there is too much going on in his life to see the wood for the trees. We all feel that we are going to be the exception to the rule because they have made us believe (sometimes) how special we are. We don’t know what he will do next but really for your own sanity, as Fearless has said, you must instigate NC. If he really does want to be with you, he will want to sort himself out and divorce his wife. If not, you are better off without him and finding someone (who will be out there) who will appreciate you as the wonderful and beautiful person you are. Much Love x
Hi Stella,
The others have given you excellent advice. I’d like to lend my support to you. I’m so sorry but your situation is NOT unique. I lived the lonely, sucky life of a mistress for two years. Almost everything you described is the classic OW scenario so elegantly and clearly explained by Natalie and tons of other OW’s who comment. Waiting while he “makes a clean break” is a classic shifting of the goal posts. The “lifeline” line almost made me choke. He needs you to be an ego stroke and a shoulder to lean on. Go through the archives on this blog and you’ll find that everything he has told you is standard for cheating MM’s. Fearless pointed out my all time fav…”There’s No Such Thing as an Honest Cheat. The fact that by definition cheating MM”s are liars means that they lie to everybody, including the OW. He lied to you from the outset, unlike my situation. I went in with my eyes wide shut knowing he was married. I know, I thought that the exMM was “only” lying to his wife, as though that’s okay! NC has been extremely difficult for me and it’s taken a long time to to grieve the loss of my fantasy. I’d suggest that you spend the next 90 days thinking about you, your future, your goals, and reading everything on this blog, Natalie’s new book, and her book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl which contains wonderful info about cheating MM’s and OW’s. It took me about 90 days of NC (albeit faux) and a steady BR diet for the fog to start to clear. I did have to keep going back to put my hand in the fire to see if it was still hot. It was. I always got burned. It sounds like you may be doing the same thing. If he’s flip flopped 8 times (been through that too), the chances are great in 90 days, you’ll be stuck in the same muck, lonely, stuck on a shelf, waiting, miserable, and wasting your time, to use your words.
I’m sorry for your grief. I’ve lived it and am living it. Wishing the best for you. Thank you for your comment though. It reminded me of my situation and reinforces how important it is to get out of such an unhealthy situation. I am grateful for Natalie and everyone that encouraged me to get out and stay out.
PS. We got busted by his wife too after going back to suck it and see. Nothing unique about being busted, apparently. Nothing unique about the reconciliation with his wife either…
Runner,
Thank you so much for your input. I read the book last year, and all of the posts you mentioned months ago when everything hit the fan and he left me to stay with his wife when we both learned he was playing us. I’ll go back now that the situation is fresh again and reread. I appreciate your time and words of wisdom. And your sense of humor.
Thank you, Fearless. Everything you said about being a doormat, ego stroke, etc, has run through my mind a million times. He refutes it all (of course he does; he’s biased), which makes me wonder if I’m being overly sensitive, impatient, or otherwise crazy. It’s nice to hear from women like you who have lived through this sort of thing that the situation is not unique. I definitely need to order Nat’s new book. It sounds like it was written for me, unfortunately. Thanks again.
Oh, Lord, ladies. I don’t know what’s worse: knowing you’re all right (I knew it when I posted, actually, since I’ve been reading this site for almost a year to try to figure out why something seemed amiss in my “relationship”), or having to ignore reality. I sit here trying to rationalize my obsession by replaying what he said last night. “I feel such comfort in my love for you, and know that taking a break and not re-engaging in such a way that will endanger our future is the only choice for us if we want ‘a forever’ together…” I know these guys are so “on” when they want to be, but he takes the cake. He’s amazing at saying and doing the right thing when he wants to. His wife told me he’s always done the same to her. They’ve been married over 25 years, btw, and he’s been treating her the same (hot/cold) forever, but seems not to have ever taken a lover prior to this, according to both of them. Probably a lie.
I guess I thought that this time, our reconciliation might be different because now he’s out in the open. His wife knows he was lying to us both and leading a double life. He’s claiming he started seeing a therapist a couple weeks ago, and it’s this guy who convinced him he’s in more jeopardy if he gets caught a second time, so he needs to take it slow. See, they have grown kids but, more importantly, they are a wealthy and he fears a nasty divorce. They did discuss splitting a few times, but she wants to make it work and keeps suggesting therapists. He tells me he goes for “other reasons.”
“I feel such comfort in my love for you, and know that taking a break and not re-engaging in such a way that will endanger our future is the only choice for us if we want ‘a forever’ together”
Stella
I’ve studied Shakespeare, I’ve read the bible cover to cover in ye olde King James version, I’ve translated Cicero from Latin to English and vice versa and … I’ve no idea what he means!
He’s been doing this for over 25 years, he’s used to it, his wife is used to it, you seem used to your bit. What’s gonna change?
As for taking it slow – can you see how funny that is? He’s married. You’re not even out of the starting block. You’re not even IN the starting block.
He’s been busted and they are still married. What does that tell you?
Grace, you just made me laugh aloud. Thank you for being so frank. I know he’s married. I guess that because they’re finally living apart now, and he’s finally agreed that having “mistress status” is not fair to me, I feel like he may actually be on the up and up. Before, he was perfectly happy having his cake and eating it, too. Now he apparently doesn’t expect to see/sleep with/chat with me while he gets his sh*t together, so I tell myself he’s not getting anything out of the situation. Wait. Typing that, I just realized that he is; he’s getting me as an OPTION to come find if he wants me, without having to worry that I’ve become emotionally or physically involved with anyone else. Ugh. I know I’m almost certainly kidding myself about being the exception to the rule. But I’m still doing it.
In the meantime, I’m torturing myself because I’m afraid he’s going to try to have me followed when I go on vacation this week to see if I stay faithful. He was terribly jealous when I told him I had plans to go away with the new guy I was seeing before he came back. I told him I wouldn’t see him (we’re both still going to a festival we bought tickets to out of town), but after my MM decided we’d take a break ’til August, I decided I’d spend one day with him, but only as friends, not lovers. I’m still a paranoid wreck, because the MM used to talk so often about the possibility of private investigators following us that I wonder if he’d hire one as a test for me. It’s taken all of the joy out of this trip I was looking forward to. The new man knows all this and says the MM’s mind control over me is phenomenal. I know he’s right and this is nuts. I guess I want validation from you ladies that I should, in fact, go and have fun without feeling obligated to the MM. Thanks in advance for all of your advice. I know it seems like I’m not listening, but I am. It just takes a while to sink in.
Stella
it’s beginning to sound like Bonkerdom.
“(we’re both still going to a festival we bought tickets to out of town), but after my MM decided we’d take a break ’til August, I decided I’d spend one day with him, but only as friends, not lovers.”
The MM is using you as a option, using his wife as an option and YOU are using this ‘nice man’ as an option, just as the MM is using you. Is the ‘nice man’ to put up with all this nonsense? Doesn’t he deserve something better? Don’t you? Doesn’t the long suffering wife of the MM?
“I guess I want validation from you ladies that I should, in fact, go and have fun without feeling obligated to the MM.”
I don’t think you should feel obligated to this MM (plainly you do, however). I think you should NC MM as of right now. I also think the nice man should NC you, as of right now.
Sorry, but true.
“The new man knows all this and says the MM’s mind control over me is phenomenal. I know he’s right and this is nuts. I guess I want validation from you ladies that I should, in fact, go and have fun without feeling obligated to the MM.”
You are absolutely right, this is nuts. It’s about an 8.5 on the drama scale. If the MM “decided” you should take a break, what’s up with the boundary-busting day together as “friends”?
I wouldn’t recommend you go at all…it doesn’t sound like anything fun is going to come of it, it sounds like a recipe for a whole lot of painful drama. Meeting up MARRIED man with a history of lying and treating you like crap, the threat of PI’s looming, a pretense of spending the day as “friends” (hint: friends don’t treat you like crap or keep you hanging as the fallback girl or get terribly possessive and jealous or try to control who you sleep with or date while they keep you on a back burner). Even if you don’t plan to see him, you’ll know he’s there the whole time…what about that sounds like fun? You’d be better served spending the day being a friend to YOU and sparing yourself the potential pain and drama.
As for the new “nice” guy – You haven’t let go of the MM, faced and grieved the loss, or learned the lessons of the experience, plus you dumped the “nice” guy and went running to the MM as soon as he said “jump”, how can you possibly be emotionally available for a new relationship?
Get off the relationship crack, get help if you necessary. The Married Man is clearly taking care of himself and getting his needs met regardless of how it impacts you, shouldn’t you be caring for and looking out for yourself?
Stella,
He’s living apart from his wife, and suddenly doesn’t want to see you? He is trying to get back together with his wife. Hence the counselling. No doubt it will be a condition she has set. Amazingly, he has managed to persuade you it’s out of respect for you. That is indeed bonkers.
Mymble,
I concur! These guys…. sheesh! When you’re in it you don’t see it, when you’re not in it it’s as clear as day!
Grace,
I think I can translate;
“lie low for a while, till the wife calms down, and has started to believe it’s really over. Then, maybe, we can continue as we were before. (unless I decide to find someone else in the meantime)”
Stella,
This gives me a horrible feeling of déjà vu as with my own situation.
It is very often about the money, and the more they have the less they want to lose it. For many men, money is status, power, and validation which ultimately, they value above personal relationships. The MM I was involved with talked a lot about money, it represented something very important to him. The long marriage too is a hallmark and gold standard of success (perhaps also having a mistress). I now feel myself, why would he give up so much? We say “he’s not that special” but the same applies to us – we are not that special. I think men have a clearer grasp of this. We as women tend to want our validation from a personal relationship with an attractive successful man; they get it from being wealthy, respected, the head ofthe family.
You are looking for an “upgrade”; but making you his wife would be, for him, in his terms, a downgrade.
Mymble,
I agree with much of what you say, but I think his “reasons” for continuing an affair while promising the OW a future, whatever they, are are just bollocks.
Often the OWs want him to explain his “reasons” for why he cannot be with her and deliver the relationship she thinks she wants with him. She wants to know the answer to the million dollar question: why don’t you leave her and be with me? And often he is happy to oblige with all manner of “reasonable” reasons, such as those you mention. And in her efforts to avoid feeling rejected by him, the OW too is happy to accept his “reasonable” reasons because so long as he has “reasons” that do not include a) because I just don’t want to b) because I’m fine where I am, thanks c) because I am getting what I want from you anyway d) because I don’t love you e) because what I want is the excitement and escapism of an affair; I’m not looking for a another wife!
…And anything else we don’t want to hear about.
Because then we’d need to get real with ourselves and take some responsibility for doing something about it – like sending him packing.
So long as he can come up with “good” reason for keeping us in OW/doormat position, we get to avoid, deny and minimise and figure that it must be okay then (cos his reasons for treating me like this plausible and sound).
A man who wants to marginalise us and treat us as something ‘less than’ will always have his “reasons” for why he has to do that! The fact that he can’t come up with any reason not to do that should tell us something. The fact is that there are NO reasons that should be acceptable for a woman to begin or continue in an OW role. None that she should accept as even remotely “reasonable”, cos whatever his “reasons”, he is still a liar and a cheat, she is still living with her head up her arse, he is *still* not there, still not offering her anything. And none of it is okay.
Natalie,
Suggested topic for new post on your blog:
“All the reasons why he needs to treat me like crap and why I agree with him”
Fearless
You’re making me laugh!
I don’t disagree with anything you write, I just meant we the OW are so wrapped up in our feelings but whatever they say the MM are much colder. They have thier emotional moments when they say stuff but they know perfectly well what their intentions are. And they take all Relevant factors into account including the fact that he already has a perfectly nice wife, why change her for another one and lose the money, goodwill of family, house etc etc
I had a really good day at work, so glad I dumped him, not a peep in 5 months. If I hadn’t found baggage reclaim I’d still be in the twilight zone, crying in the loo and constantly checking my phone etc etc.
Mymble,
Yes, I know what you mean. Am so glad you found your way out of the twilight zone. Stay with it!
Stella, My recent ex AC was married when I met him. His wife found out about us and left him 6 years ago. He was always wildly jealous and possessive and I ended up losing myself to his control (read abuse) and he never really stopped treating me like the OW even all those years he was unencumbered by a wife. He also discovered his ability to play the field as a single guy after the stigma of his divorce wore off a while ago. I am now here reading NML and all the comments and have gone NC. Just something to consider before you put yourself on ice for him…
Oh, wow, girls. I feel sick right now. Thanks for giving me food for thought. I feel like such an idiot, because it seriously DID NOT EVEN OCCUR to me that his wife might have forced him into counseling, and kicked him out of their house. He’s made me think this was all his doing, and that she’d take him back if he wanted to stay, but he’s the one who wants to divorce. I guess I’ve been fooling myself, assuming that since he knows his wife and I have had a lot of communication since it all blew up, he wouldn’t try to play both sides at this point because it would be too easy for she and I to swap info. But I think he’s counting on the fact that I won’t call her because it would make things “worse” for “our future” (I know you’re all rolling your eyes) if she knew he was with me again. He wrote this morning to “wish me a safe and wonderful trip” and made some comment about how he hopes it’s ok that he “broke the rules” and contacted me. It was his own rule in the first place! I hadn’t even mustered up the guts to implement NC.
I know I’m unavailable, too, and I’m in therapy trying to figure out why. Baggage Reclaim helps ten times more than my sessions, however. Thank you all so much. I really am trying.
Yeah Stella, folks on BR are the absolute best. I so identify with you because I went through the same shit. As things were finally ending, I couldn’t make heads or tails because I was totally engulfed in the fog of denial. Grace, Fearless, Sunshine, Magnolia, Natalie, and so many others were there to help me. Your situation is so similar to my situation, it’s not even funny. It sucks. Who knows who forces somebody into counseling. Does it really matter? Topline: He’s still married after 25 years. That’s it. Who cares if he spends the next 25 years in counseling? At that point, he should be 75 to 100 years.
Fearless, your response to Stella left me reeling. Sooooo totally spot on for me. I’m re-reading.
Ditch the MM Stella. It’s so clear. Ditch the exMM Runner. It’s so clear. Thank you again, again, and again.
Oh Fearless, I love your posts. This is your best ever. It so accurately describes me. A year and a half later, I still want to him to explain his reasons for not being with me and why he wouldn’t deliver the crap he promised. I got so many “reasonable” reasons. Yep and in my effort to avoid reality and maintain my fantasy, I was only too happy to accept his shite. This one struck totally home: “A man who wants to marginalise us and treat us as something ‘less than’ will always have his “reasons” for why he has to do that!” Wow, Fearless. Totally cool and so spot on. Stella, I understand how difficult it is when the MM is whispering “I love you” in your ear and then gets up and goes home to his wife. I’m still coming to grips with how I rationalized that objective fact…he’s married. Going home to his wife. BTW, Stella, I didn’t have a clue as to what he meant. Thanks Grace. I was totally lost and thought it was just me. Apparently OW’s and MM’s have a code language? Stella, I could send you emails from my exMM and you would be left wondering what’s up with me.
Runner
Glad if I can help.
“I still want to him to explain his reasons for not being with me and why he wouldn’t deliver the crap he promised.”
My feeling about this for all OWs/still simmering ex OWs is:
He was married when you met him – if he had honestly and truly wanted out of his marriage he would have got out of it before you even met him/ he did not start up an affair because he wanted a divorce – he started up an affair because he did not want a divorce.
OWs fail to register the above when they are being swept into the fantasy of the affair. They have some notion that this married man is having an affair because he is thinking of getting out of his marriage. He’s not. He’s thinking he fancies you and would like the excitement/ escapism/fantasy of a “harmless”, discrete dalliance).
She’s thinking – once the affair is up and running and he seems to now appreciate all of her marvelousness – that she can put a claim on him and expect him to make up his mind (in her favour). But it’s not even that he needs to make up his mind (as bad as that is) – it’s that he would need to change his mind! What a thankless task. Why bother. Best to be available for someone who, if he has been married, has already changed his mind before you came along!
The whole OW/MM thing is a total mess, runner, and would send anybody bonkers. Best not to try to reason with it – it’s a never ending circle of senselessness. My advice is to accept that you cannot reason your way through ‘madness’ – just accept ‘Totally Effing Bonkers’ as the reason behind all of it and be glad you have stepped away from it. Let Bonkerdom happen somewhere else far away from you!
I think I’m now blabbing on off topic. Apologies folks. Will rein myself in!
runnergirl, I can’t help but wonder, based on my own experience, whether wanting to extract a “reason” from an assclown is a cover for trying to get an answer why Mom or Dad didn’t really love us the way we wanted and needed them to.
I went down that road for about a hot minute with a shady situation a few months ago with the guy who turned out to have a gf. I sat in the mirror, crying, looking at myself, asking “Why? Why?” and it came through, clear as a bell, “HE doesn’t even know.”
It doesn’t even come down to anyone one reason. Life is so complex and though we make choices for seemingly apparent reasons, everything about us and our present experience and choices stretches back through a chain of events that started with the beginning of life itself. There really is no way to pin it down to “this” or “that”, and wouldn’t it be nice if we COULD pin it down to That One Thing so we could just FIX it and FINALLY get that love and security that seems to elude us? That love and security that the MM (or AC or EUM) seems to be holding forever like a carrot on stick, distracting us from giving ourselves that very unconditional love, security and acceptance we would be better served giving ourselves.
When I went into therapy last year, I spent a great deal of time and care explaining how fragile I was, how deeply distressed, and my history of violence and abuse. I used professional language, wanting to express clearly to the therapist just exactly how vulnerable I was. I felt deeply betrayed when I found myself in a terribly painful group therapy situation that was making me worse and didn’t meet my needs at ALL and I realized the therapist was clueless. I was in such deep distress that I couldn’t afford to waste a single ounce of strength on trying to get the therapist to see the error of his ways, or get him to change, or get entangled in accusation and blame with him. It was enough for ME to know, and to get the hell out. It was vital to my health and well-being that I find an inner reserve to tenderly hold my deeply wounded self, and hold it together until I found a therapist who could meet my needs.
Like with these MM/AC/EUM’s/parents/friends/whoever….we could waste countless hours desperately trying to extract a REASON WHY they don’t love us or want to be with us or treat us right…but the TOPLINE data is…they…
the TOPLINE data is…they don’t/didn’t. To be a friend to ourselves, we have to accept the information and then advocate to get our needs met some other way.
Thank you Sunshine. I agree with you. For me, at least, trying to extract a “reason” from an AC/MM relates clearly to my daddy issues and the topline data is that they don’t/didn’t love us or treat us right. Here’s the thing I’ve been struggling with is I can clearly see the relationship between my present exMM issues and my past daddy issues. The exMM is a carbon copy of daddy, right down to their degrees. However for a while, I kept going back to my pain source, knowing what I was doing was futile and painful. I think that’s why I reacted so strongly to Stella’s comments. I know Natalie’s post relates to the claimant and I see how I allowed him to “claim” me even after the big break. But there was this irrational part of me that thought since he was still “claiming” me, that meant there was still a chance. Total fantasy dreamer mentality. To be honest, I swanned back to claim him as well. Although I think our claims were different. He was attempting to reclaim me as an option and I was attempting to reclaim my fantasy. As Natalie points out, claimants are about control. Overcoming my control issues has been a life long task.
I’m glad you moved on with regards to therapy and didn’t spend your valuable time or money trying to get the therapist to see the error of his ways or that he was not helping you. There has to be a “fit” with a therapist (like partners and jobs), if there isn’t a fit, you’ve got to move on. Good for you. Thanks Sunshine. Your comments and the other comments, including Stella’s have given me a lot to think about AGAIN!
And Sunshine, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with regards to your experience with the guy who turned out to have a gf or I’m finally at the point of hearing it. I’m sorry that happened to you.
“Why? Why”? Perfect in my case. I’ll bet “HE doesn’t even know”. Your comment triggered memories of me crying and asking why. His answer was that he didn’t know. I should have listened-head thump. I don’t mean to dismiss my role in lying and cheating or his role in cheating on his wife. My choices in getting involved with a MM didn’t come down to any one reason. I guess his decision to cheat on his wife can’t be pinned down to “this” or that”. It was a “chain of events stretching back to the beginning of life itself”. That’s a nice perspective. I will be breaking that “chain of events” and will never be that woman again however!
I hope you are still reading Stella and staying strong. It’s taken me a long time but it has been worth it. I’m starting to look forward instead of backward. Natalie’s Dreamer book has helped me see how much of my life while involved with the exMM was a fantasy in my head. I’ve been watching my fantasy self-talk since I started reading the book. I’m shocked. I’ve been challenging my fantasy self-talk with reality self-talk. It’s been a busy place in my head. Fantasy Talk: Oh he’d be coming home tonight and I could make dinner and we could sip wine on the patio…NOT. Reality: He’d be coming home to his wife and have other plans while I waited at home alone for a crumb nite, nite text and magic it into a loaf. The reality of being an OW certainly sucks but it’s better than be one.
Runner,
Your comment about how you could be on the patio sipping wine with him in your fantasy, but in reality you’d be sitting home alone waiting for a crappy “Goodnight” text was so spot-on it hurt. That’s exactly how it is. My MM lived in another state for most of our relationship, so I only got to see him for a few days each month. The rest of the time I sat around waiting for his crumbs. He managed me via text and email, and we almost never spoke over the phone. I couldn’t figure out why he never called. Now I know it was because he was with his wife a lot of the time. He’s so gifted at writing romantic emails, and I’ve read and reread them so many times that I’ve built a fantasy relationship out of them. When I sit back and realize how pathetic it is to fanatically check my email, waiting for a couple of paragraphs a day to live off of, I feel like such an idiot.
I just don’t know what I’m doing here. I know his patterns so well that I’m certain that, even though he called a moratorium on seeing one another until August, in a few weeks he’ll suggest getting together. My birthday’s coming up. He’ll waltz back in, hit the reset button, and that’ll be enough of a “fix” to tide him over. I have a trip planned for this summer, and I’m going to be out of the country for nearly 2 months. I booked it after his wife and I found out about each other, and was originally planning to use that time to get over him. But he’s now using the trip as an unofficial timeline for me to wait for him. Right now, I know I’ll be hoping and praying that when I return, he’ll have followed through on his promises, but I’m so afraid I’m going to come back and find out he’s made no progress, and he’ll just keep pushing the date back again. That’s exactly what happened last year. I waited faithfully for him while I was overseas. I don’t know why I think “this time” it will be any different.
I guess what I’d like to know from some of you ladies who’ve lived through this sort of thing is, does a time come when you feel differently about these guys and you can break it off without feeling all of this sadness and loss? Or is it more a matter of being strong despite your love for them? I read your advice, and Nat’s book, and I know logically what I should do or what I’d tell a friend to do in this situation, but I can’t make myself do it because I …feel like a weakling. I’ve been drawn to guys like him since I was a teen, and always let them pop back into my life until they stopped coming around. Even when I was married to a nice man, I pursued the jerks who’d use me. It’s like I seek validation only from people who don’t care about me. Do some of you do that, too, and why do you think we do this? I know Nat would say I need to start treating myself with love, care, trust and respect, and get some self esteem. But how do you do that, exactly? I don’t know where to begin. I just know I don’t want to be doing this into my forties with him.
Blog hog back again.
Oh my Stella, our stories are so similar and unfortunately similar with many OW stories. It really doesn’t matter whether they call, text, or show up. The topline is that they are married to someone else. End of. We cannot control the fact they are married. The only thing we can control is us and not getting involved with a married or attached lying cheater. Since you’ve read Natalie’s books and BR, you know the shifting goalpost. It’ll just keep shifting until you are in your fifties or sixties or seventies. My forties flew by waiting to be upgraded. Now, I’m going on 53. No upgrade. You are not a weakling. You got sucked into an affair with a MM. If you don’t want to spend your forties as a doormat, option, blow up toy, take some action now.
There’s no short cut through the pain of sadness and loss. There’s no short cut through the grieving process. At least for me, there came a time when staying involved with a cheating MM was much more painful than cutting it off. It’s been painful but there is hope now. There’s no hope in being a mistress or being drawn to guys who treat you with disrespect.
Go away this summer with a free spirit. If you have to talk to him again, tell him the next time he contacts you, it will be after he has been divorced. Do NOT allow him to ruin your trip. You won’t get this time back. Use this time for you. He’s either available for a healthy committed relationship based on trust? love, and respect or he is married and not available. It’s a thumbs up, thumbs down question. No more fantasies, dreams, denial, shifting goalposts, lying, and cheating for me. It was thumbs down. I hope you aren’t posting on BR when you are fifty as to how you spent a decade being a disappointed OW. Hopefully, Natalie will still be here!
Wow.. I experienced this ‘claiming’ last night. I was out with friends and saw the ex for the first time since he broke up with me 2 months ago. Another man (very nice looking guy) was chatting me up when I looked up and saw him. I felt sick a bit but quickly got over it. When I was coming out of the restroom I ran right into him and he wanted to know if I was seeing anyone or if I was dating the guy chatting me up. Then he proceeds to watch me the rest of the night on and off. Very weird, since he was the one who wanted to break up. It was very empowering to me though because I had been laughing and having a great time before I even noticed he was there. And I never saw him smile or laugh once which is his usual way of conducting himself.
This sums up just about every single man I ever went out with, or even crushed on…
Nothing drove me crazier in life than constant rejection, even abuse, and then acting like they had WON something – thinking I would go back when its waaay beyond too late.
Always the pain for me was when I would be THERE for them and “warning” them its going to happen, one-day I will not be THERE anymore.
Always so confusing and always so painful when your in the middle of that, Just once I would like to NOT have to go through those motions, and later having to say “NO I told you so remember?, and did you think I was just playing a game or what? ( Now I feel nothing, have NO trust, and you made it this way.) And I am to go through THAT again!!!??
loveable
thank u
Hi every 1 i saw all ur comments well i think u should hear from the wifes point view i was married 4 nine years then my husband cheated wiv my best friend just after my first son was born then i fell pregnant with my seconded son when i was six months gone he saw going 2 run away with her then i 4 gave him then we had a another son then he cheated again with the same girl so i divorce him but i loved him so i remarried him and had another boy by this time we had 4 boys then he lefted and went 2 Kent with another girl i took him back we had a littke girl in 2009 now he as started again with a girl from facebook but she is very young so now no more 4 giving him he’s gone and ii will be divorce on the 14th sept can’t wait so never believe a man if u think they are hiding something always go with your feels
Denise
As long as women (including the wives) keep entertaining these men and their irresponsible behaviour they will continue to behave in exactly the same way.