If you’ve been involved in an unavailable relationship, or been frustrated by certain friends, family, or coworkers, you may have noticed something which if you don’t heed the real meaning, you’ll instead take it as some sort of indication of your worth:
These people are often very comfortable with disappointing you by failing to meet your hopes and expectations, plus promises and plans that they’ve made, yet they’ll practically break their neck to ensure that they don’t disappoint certain people. They’ll do things like:
- Thinking that it’s OK to cancel on you if a better offer comes up.
- Thinking that it’s OK to leave it till the last minute to ask you out / to do something because they’re exploring all other options.
- Expect you to say YES. Always. Even when they know that they’re disrespecting you.
- Expect you to be all adoring, accepting and forgiving no matter what they do so even when they eff up, they don’t exactly go out of their way to genuinely apologise and show remorse, often expecting you to ‘move on’ (read: hurry the eff up and get over it so that they can press the Reset Button).
- Breaking it off with you to go back to the same person and then coming back to you when it goes tits up. Or just ditching you every time a better offer comes up.
- Claiming that the reason why they treat you as they do is because, for instance, you’re the ‘strong’ one in the family or don’t need as much as the others, or some other weird reason to justify why they treat you differently.
- Failing to do something for you and then doing the exact same thing or similar for someone else even though you’re still waiting on them. Often they’ll keep telling you that they’re going to get to your job eventually but in essence they keep bumping you when something that they’re afraid to jeopardise their image over, comes along.
This can feel like a smack in the teeth and if you’re prone to internalising these experiences and inclined to correlate them to your worth, you’ll wonder “What’s wrong with me? Why are they being so nice to them / doing stuff for them but they’re not for me?” You may even feel like a fool and wonder why you’re the ‘exception’ plus it will cause you to question your judgement because even if you know that they’re just not that special and have in fact experienced some rather shady behaviour on their part, them pulling out the stops for someone else makes you wonder if you’ve misinterpreted their actions, or have missed the memo that informed you of what you’ve done to piss them off.
Their behaviour isn’t pretty, clever, or flattering and it’s only natural to feel away, or hurt and angry about it.
No matter how much self-esteem you have, in the first instance it smarts to experience that moment when you realise that really, you’re not a priority. You don’t rank high on their Best To Avoid Disappointing Index.
After the realisation strikes, it’s important to step back and see these situations for what they are – an opportunity to learn about the flipside to a person and how comfortable and confident they feel about maintaining the respect, trust, and affections you have for them no matter what they do. They know that you have them on a pedestal and that you have more confidence and love for them than they deserve.
People, rightly or wrongly, get a sense of how they can treat you and what they can get away with via their own actions and your boundaries which you demonstrate with your own actions and words. When you’re someone who strives to match their actions and words, as well as living congruently with your values, it’s very difficult to habitually disappoint people or even have one of those switchy personalities that picks and chooses who they want to roll out their nicey-nice and assholic character for, which is very inauthentic.
When you make a judgement about you based on how someone treats you, instead of judging their actions or at least the situation, you’re actually agreeing with what you think their assessment is and feeding into a widely held belief by people who struggle with low self-esteem, that inappropriate, unhealthy or even abusive behaviour has a rationale and can be accepted when the recipient of it isn’t worthy of something better, as if you’re communicating your worth and influencing their behaviour.
What you can learn from people who seem to think that it’s OK to disappoint you and to keep disappointing you, while appearing to be more conscientious with others, is that they’re clearly aware that they can and should act better and are actually capable of it, at least on a surface level, but they’ll show their real selves and let it all hang out to someone who they think will take them any which way.
The question you then have to ask yourself is: are you being the person who will take them any which way? Is it ok to disappoint you?
I learned from first-hand experience that if a person thinks that you’re blinded to who they really are, or you do know but don’t seem deterred, or they’ve been manipulative with their compliments to sell you their behaviour – “You’re so kind, generous, understanding, and supportive..” or even “I’m so glad you’re not like everyone else making demands on me..” – which you lap up and see as a compliment while they’re slipping their shady behaviour under the radar, they will gradually become increasing complacent and even careless about your feelings and your relationship. They’ll also feel free to disappoint you if they know that you’re validation hungry.
If someone believes that you’re so enamoured with them that you won’t leave, create conflict or consequences, or at least tell them to jog on (and mean it) when they try to push the boundaries, not only will they relax, but they just won’t value you enough to genuinely fear the loss of you.
When they can keep disappointing, it’s because they’re being believed in and given another chance, when really they should be getting the heave ho or at the very least, an increase in boundary security.
Of course disappointments can and will happen in life, because it’s inevitable that people, things, and situations will fail to live up to our hopes and expectations for them. That said, what you don’t want is certain people keeping you in their mental It’s OK To Disappoint Roladex.
No it’s not OK and actually whether you say it verbally or through action, make sure that you communicate this and stick to your guns, because when someone experiences medium to long-term consequences as opposed to short-term, hollow ones that they can eventually brush off and weasel their way back in on, they know to think twice about letting you down or recognise that they need to move on, because even if they appease you on a surface level like they do others, they’re never actually going to stump up with substance anyway.
And that’s something else to remember here – yes it would be nice if they saw fit to not disappoint you, but all that glitters isn’t gold and when you take them off their pedestal, you’ll see that due to their surface action, they have very little, if any, genuinely intimate, healthy substantial relationships. Even if you got what you think that they give everyone else, they’d still disappoint you on a deeper level.
The greatest amount of disappointment actually comes from continuing to hold out hope after someone has shown and told you who they are. Trust the feedback from their actions (or lack thereof) and instead of lowering your self-esteem, it’s time to adjust your perception and expectations of them, and act accordingly.
Your thoughts?
The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship is now available from my bookshop along with with Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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ps runnergirl. u picked up exactly wot i feeling. an overwhelming urge to beak NC. to say one word to him (a derogatory one of couse). I didnt though. tht in itself is huge growth for me. thanku for picking up on tht. i really HAVE to maintain NC this time. Ive ended it exactly correctly & taken all my power back. my door is now FOREVER closed to him. Breaking NC will only cause me deep pain. Maintaining NC is close to life & death for me now. Him ignoring me will only push me bk tto the brink again. thanku so much for bolstering my resolve. it is strong anyway but this latest development was just the universe testing me. i past the point where the pain of staying the same exceeded my fear of change long ago. it is time now for focus to stay FIRMLY on me me & my upcoming exam xxx
ok sorry for thread hyjack everyone. yr all such brave women. i feel priviledged to to get to read yr many stories. xx
Teachable,
What a horrific story! I don’t know what the nature of your injury/disability is but I’d STRONGLY suggest that you go on MEGA LOCKDOWN. With me, domestic violence and abuse in my childhood had caused me issues, but I was totally unconscious of the link because I had thought that because it was behind me, that it wouldn’t have an impact on me any longer – I was wrong.
From your story, it’s obvious that you could do with boundaries – sex ban for a while, dating ban, psychology, and just taking care of YOU for a while. I had a sex ban for three months, followed by a dating ban for ~ 11 months , I had around 17 appointments with a psycologist where we dug up all the baggage and started looking at patterns, I started saying no to people, took myself off online dating and chat sites, shut down IM and Skype, and forced myself to go out every weekend. I thought that I would never see the end, and NC was excruciatingly painful. And even after that I had the odd slip up!
At the end of the day, you have to go in and rescue yourself. No-one else is better positioned to.
Ok but I do have to admit that I am having a problem with having previously been used and abused, led on, toyed with and maniupulated. Only to then just “move on.”
I mean is anyone else having a problem with just letting this thing go and watching the AC just dance off into the sunset on to his next victim while we are sitting here broken and hurting?!
I guess I am in my anger phase again because a part of me wants to get my dignity back somehow. I want to hurt him back! He doesn’t care that I am now NC with him in fact he is probably relieved he got off so easy. ON TO THE NEXT with no messes to clean up.
Something about all of us women here broken, and working so hard to fix ourselves, and them not having been affected at all is getting to me. I’m having a hard time processing this.
I do know how you feel, write him a letter, but don’t mail it, you’ll feel better.
I am having the exact same hard time. As you may have read on the previous page, I found out 3 days ago, that at the same time that my ex AC has told me how inportant i am to his life and how he still loves me, and needs me in his life, he forgot to mention, until i asked him point blank, that he has been seeing someone new for a month now. He told me that he panics when I leave his life (two months NC, until i broke it 2 weeks ago becuase he tracked me down and sent me an email) but yet I have this nagging feeling that going NC only gets him off the hook, with no messes to clean up. I understand that going NC is really about doing something good for ourselves, taking a stand. But I really want him to hurt too. and yet i feel slightly guilty for wanting that too. ..like the Karma Police are gonna come and get me.
I feel your pain Reality. I really do.
HSnoose
You need to think of it like ‘NC gets YOU off the hook”. It means that YOU will have no more messes to clean up and no new pain to deal with. Any attempt at more contact to exact some ‘revenge’ or gain some justice’ will juts bring you more pain and more mess – and he won’t clean it up or take away the new pain – you will have to do that. Again.
Just to add, HNS, NC is not about him in any way at all – even in taking a stand against him. It’s about taking a stand for yourself. It really is about giving it up, letting it go and focusing entirely on yourself. NC is the medicine that will help YOU recover from the effects of your own poor relationship choices, help you get some boundaries sorted out and improve your self esteem to ensure that you NEVER end up with these types f men in these types of relationships ever again. The only way through this and out of the other side is to make him history; to make him no longer count – in any way at all.
Wow Fearless
i love how you summed up the NC rule. it gave me a whole new perspective on it. you truly cracked it open for me– thank you thank you! i have been reading this site for a few months, but never really read the comments much… am going to start now. this was a great piece of advice! a real insight.
dls. Am glad I helped. Nat’s blogs and all the comments from some very smart women on here have helped me through some some very difficult days (and are still helping me – I am a hard nut to crack! I had no idea I was so entrenched in some very unhealthy beliefs and habits). I am forever grateful to Nat and the commentators here (people who are complete strangers to me and yet have been of way greater practical help and support than any one I do know!) Nat also offers a safe place to weep and wail and get mad! I think this is an important aspect of the site because no-one is saying any of this is easy, and having a safe place to talk it out/scream/cry/grow has helped me no end to keep going and avoid seeking faux comfort by returning to the source of my pain (the ex EUM).
Tired of assanova (I think it was) said on a comment earlier that struck with me: “we have to get in there and rescue ourselves”. When I finally understood that this was how serious it really was – about a year ago – (and all thanks to this site) I started to take my own rescue very seriously and so I am ‘in there’ rescuing me very day. Who else is going to do it?? Thanks to Nat and others here, I don’t feel so alone in my mission to rescue me.
Yes, this site has been such a savior for me! All Nat’s amazing insights and of course the insights of the commentors like yourself. I am so grateful to have stumbled upon it!
HSN–NC is for us, but also realize that any contact with him is giving him what he wants. He told you he wants you in his life, obviously he does want to keep you around as a FGG. Don’t give it to him.
Reality, Exactly! You expressed the thoughts that I think are a big part of what is keeping me stuck. I have more to say on this but I’m tired. I just wanted you to know how wholeheartedlyI understand your sentiment.
Hey Reality
I was going crazy like that a short while ago but 2 things saved me. One, help from buddhism – nothing is ever permanent, not happiness, not suffering. Feel what I’m feeling, completely, and then just let it go. Keep doing that for a while and the feelings do lift.
Second, knowing that if I kept NC I could neither be too nice and kick myself later for being too nice, nor too nasty, when I’d feel bad and want to fix it later. I could just focus on getting my life back.
It’s now 4 months NC and I don’t want him back in any way. I’m not indifferent yet, I think that takes time and memory loss, but I don’t actually care what he is up to.
Hope you find your way out
Good points made. By keeping any kind of contact the obsessing starts again. Indifference takes a long time particularly if the relationship was a long one. That is why I had to go NC again. After a long time NC I actually thought I could be friends. It was over a year and yes he was good for alot of my relationship but a dog at the end. (Went back to his bad behavior noted at the beginning of the relationship) Some people will ALWAYS be toxic for you. My mistake was thinking I was truly over him forever but with him I had way too much hurt. His declarations of us being “lifetime” friends don’t work anymore. I don’t want him in my life at any level and it took me a long time to absorb that fact since I am friends with almost all of my exes. Two things come to mind I learned from this blog “If he wasn’t a good bf at the end why would he be a good friend?” “Don’t give someone a chance to keep hurting you” One more thing I learned “Why give them a chance for more “mind fuckery” and games. NC gives you your self esteem and your power back.
I don’t want him in my life at any level and it took me a long time to absorb that fact since I am friends with almost all of my exes.
Can I just ask WHY people collect exes-as-friends? Why do people do it?
I saw another ex yesterday in the shopping centre – surprise surprise, they’re STILL single after 3 and a half years! Gee whiz, I wonder why! I waved, said hello and made my escape. This particular one was a clown that disappeared for an ENTIRE MONTH only to resurface with a text after that. An entire month! Crazy!
I mean is anyone else having a problem with just letting this thing go and watching the AC just dance off into the sunset on to his next victim while we are sitting here broken and hurting?!
I think the anger does teach us a lesson. They dance off because they were never really in it in the first place. You can’t feel a loss if you never put anything in it in the first place.
And yes, for 3-4 months, I WAS ENRAGED LIKE HELL in the mornings I would snap wide awake and be in the most blinding fury about what he did, what he didn’t do and how he got off scot free. I was SO MAD. But there was really nothing I could do, because had I displayed my angry face, I would have been labelled a needy psycho ex blah blah. Which would have just lumped insult on top of everything!
“part of me wants to get my dignity back….I want to hurt him back!”
Completely understand this as it was how i felt, but I’m finding the best revenge (and re-installer of dignity! and oh, how I cringe at some of the things I did/put up with) is success. Success to me means self confidence, a full, happy and engaging life, work I love, etc. As I move towards that, I care less about whether the ex is dating Angelina Jolie and running the Bank of England. I would even go so far as to say that, as painful as that relationship ending was, I’m now very grateful to my ex – as he (unintentionally on his part) taught me so much about myself. My life is better as a result and soooo much better than it would have been had he still been in it.
Eloise,
I so agree!
It was such a positive, as it made me recognize my patterns of getting involved in useless relationships. It’s no longer about him, but how I can grow and become relationship healthy, and this only came with the recognition of participation in these ridiculous relationships.
You only win if you let go, putting additional energy into a worthless situation is draining and self defeating
Eloise, good for you! I think that, when all is said and done, you are right: that really the epiphany relationship is a gift because it teaches us so much, and yes my life is so much better after the jolt I got two years ago.
The crazy-making men help us get so much together: boundaries, acting on our feelings not just sitting with them ( in a respectful manner), asserting ourselves in a reasonable manner, and mostly just figuring out that ultimately, we need to look out for number one, first.
So……just broke up last night with my five-month old relationship; this one, this breakup, was so polar opposite from the bad one two years ago that, even though I feel sad, I realize how much I have progressed in both picking better guys and also, just asserting myself early on.
We had some tension the last two weeks, and I have been on the fence for months now, not feeling “in” love, but caring tremendously about him, and feeling so crappy that I was not falling in love and it turns out that we are just either incompatible or else, our timing was just way off. I thought that he was not respecting a boundary that I had set up, but it turns out that he had, but I had not checked my phone records enough ( he had called when he said that he would, but my battery had died and I did not see the call, and so it turns out that there was a message from him) With that said, though, I had been right: my tingling “spidy senses” were correct, there was problems and so we talked about them. What he said, was that he felt like he spent the first four months putting in tons of effort and just felt like something was off, in my response just like I was not quite there 100% ( which, was true, although I tried to be) and he just, he said, in the last month started to disconnect although he did not realize it as much until this last week. When he had tried to call me, he had hoped to initiate “the talk” too. We talked for 2 hours, we both got pretty teary and we both agreed that we wish that it was happening but for whatever reason-his commitment issues, mine, or probably, both, and also, our age and our both needing to analyze things too much-something was not fixable. We both feel like we got “stuck”. I think he kind of wants to let it air out and see if later, he can work through he is own stuff and get things to work, but I think that I am clear that him turning off, right when I had just started to try harder, shows me that maybe he is a bit more attracted when it is not reciprocated and I can’t deal with that ( and I told him that, which felt great!)
What our talk revealed was that I am able to shut the door on something that is not working, and that I can trust myself and my feelings. We are going to talk things through again, when we both have some weeks apart, but all in all I feel very sad, but very relieved and very, for lack of better words-triumphant!- I took care of myself, asked for the talk, and initiated a break-up that would have come eventually, on his end or mine, and probably after weeks of waffling which would have hurt me.
Thank you, ladies, for all your wise words last post ( which I responded to after this one went up) and Nathalie, for helping me negotiate my way through this jungle called the post-modern dating world:)
Dancing,
God for you!!!
If you get in touch with him to tell him how angry you are, or try to teach him a lesson, you will just be giving him another ego boost. “Oh look, another ex who is still hung up on me, how great am I”. It may help in keeping NC to remember that–you don’t want to give him any more power.
Also, these guys are broken. The women on here are working on themselves and figuring things out to have better relationships. For these guys, it’s just like groundhog day….he will do the same thing with the next one, he hasn’t moved on to some great relationship full of mutual trust, love, and respect.
Reality: he is not off the hook. You blowing him off, on some level, will get his ego, if nothing else. I promise you. What will let him off the hook is you going off on him; he wants you to, to make his desire to put you in the “crazy” catagory. He is an ass. Don’t bite.
Think of it this way: if you had been an ass to someone and they NC’d you, would you not, at some point, get the message that maybe, you were a bit of an ass, much better than if they hunted you down and tried to hurt you?
NC is great as a tool to eliminate people of all types: I NC’d a “frenemy” who just was not being cool, or giving and I still get narcicisstic emails for her and texts from time to time and it feels so good to just ignore; she wants that response, she wants to start a fight and play the victim because she knows that she was an ass and I am over, done with and so beyond caring: that is how you will eventually feel, if you stick with NC.:) Good luck!
Reality, it is up to you if you want to feel pain or not. I like that you are in “anger state” because it will help you to move on eventually.
We are no longer in touch, but I heard, that she is very happy and successful in her work and marriage, they are travelling and they are planning to start a family. My point IS her break up driven her to success, which Eloise mentioned above, my friend done it, so could you and me!
I used to have a friend, she was dating this guy for 5 years, they bought a house few months prior and decorated it. Then he went to China and met a girl there, he brought her to UK. He informed my friend, that he does not love her anymore and felt like she was his sister, not a girlfriend. My friend went to collect her belongings from THEIR house and Surprise Surprise new girl already moved in with him!!! I cant even describe how she felt, she was drinking, dating men and still could not forget her ex. She could not understand, how new her ex “forgot” 5 years of their relationship and live like he never knew her with his new girlfriend. Finally she realised that she cant carry on living in mess, while her Ex enjoying their decorated house with his new girl…My friend decided to start again… she found a new job, which pays 75 K a year, eventually she met a new guy and married him after two years of dating, they bought £2 million house
What hurts is when they prioritise everything else in their lives but you and still expect you to keep hanging around like a spare part…or perhaps they secretly wish for you to disappear but just don’t voice it for fear of appearing like an ass…little do they know that they are appearing like that anyway.
I think some of them wish you would disappear and the real sick sadistic ones never let go! Either way stay away!
Sorry for longer post in advance! Dear TEACHABLE, please, please, please stop beating yourself up. You’ve already been beaten up by a jackass, so just stop doing the same thing to yourself.
It hurts far worse when we beat ourselves, then when others hurts us. Depression is a sign your are not treating yourself well. What is that makes you think your such a bad person so that you deserve being mistreated by others, and far worse, even by YOU? I’m very sorry to hear about your past. But you know what, it is not YOUR history of abuse, it is THEIR history of being jackasses. There is one thing you can do: taking your life and your power BACK. THEY DON’T DESERVE YOU. Why are you sacrificing your well being in order to make that sociopathic ex of yours happy? Why does that dickhead deserve happiness, and you don’t?
Please, stop googling the damn jerk. You’re are just feeding your fantasy about him. BTW, he might look happy with all the cool photos on the facebook, but it doesn’t really MAKE HIM happy. Truly happy and satisfied people don’t go around and mess with other people’s lives.
You already feel so invested that you just hang on by a thread of believing that the investment will pay off. Sorry, honey, it will not, because it was a bad investment in the first place. It happened to all of us. Just let go and LEAVE before the bankrupt. You do know it’s for your own good.
Why are you afraid to let go of that sick abusive, sociopathic, addicted bastard? Do you really think it’s the best you can do? The best you can do is to build a solid, stable relationship full of love with yourself first. Why do you keep worrying about his life, his happiness, his rehab, while at the same time harming yourself? It suites him to be fucked up and it’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You’re your own business, start taking care of yourself. You CAN do it.
You fell for this psychopath, because in his sad story you saw your little abused self. And you tried to heal by healing him and making him to love you. No, the guy is severely damaged and just plain evil. He cannot love anyone. And even if he COULD love someone, you certainly don’t need his sick, ugly, pain in the ass love! You do know that you DIDN’T deserve to abused then you were a child, and you certainly don’t deserve to abuse now or EVER. So stop stepping into any sort of a relationship with the…with the sicko who only wishes you worse!
As for your impression no one cares about you I’m sorry to hear that you have no family support. But it’s again because they are fucked up. It’s not because something’s wrong with you. Your do know that serial killers have a ton of fans. And it doesn’t make them GOOD people! However, if the people surrounding you don’t care, it’s time for you to start taking care of YOU, and stop trying to please the morons who abuse and neglect you.
You don’t love him! Stop convincing yourself that you love him! I know, because I did the same thing by convincing myself that I loved the psycho who raped me. It’s like I wanted to explain to myself why I put up with his crap, and the idea of a great nuclear “love” just made me put up with more crap. I was basically just giving him the excuse to keep abusing me. Don’t do the same thing! You cannot love someone who hurts you all the time. And you actually put up with his abuse and your fantasizing about him, only because he treats you so bad. And actually, that’s the same treatment you get from yourself. It’s familiar when people are abusive to you, isn’t it? Stop the circle, you have the power to do so!
So, the psycho tried to incite you suicide?!!! And you’re still worried about his well being and rehab? God dammit woman, pull yourself together! Ditch the jerk for good! Please, stick to yourself by not letting him contact you! It doesn’t matter if he shows up single, married, rehabbed, enlightened, green, ugly, beautiful, happy or dead. He’s a jerk, a bad person, and doesn’t deserve your love. But YOU deserve your love.
It doesn’t surprise me you’re a published academic author. Of course the psychos LOVE to mess up with accomplished women. They choose the good, warm, smart women with low self esteem. Sorry, but you have very low self esteem. It’s the reason you let him in your life and kept making it easy for him to abuse. But, you know what? We ALL have some phases of low(err) self esteem, and it’s not incurable!!! Which means you CAN and I know you WILL let go of this highly unhealthy situation by sticking to NC, and by not THINKING about him.
Yes, you have survived far worse abuse, but you didn’t heal. And no one can do this except you. Start healing yourself by walking off from the psycho for good. Your life isn’t about him, it’s about YOU…
titi
“Truly happy and satisfied people don’t go around and mess with other people’s lives”. Aint that the truth. This statement of fact will be added to my daily positive self talk.
Teachable
Its time to give yourself all the love and care you gave to him. You clearly have love in abudance so start to sooth yourself with it.
The men who act like this ,act like this will all women.Don’t think it’s just you ,because it’s not.The way they treat one woman is the way they will trea all ,if not in the begining then certainly by the end.They damage so many people. It’s been months for me , but I still struggle with what he did to me. It was so cruel…I think to myself I’d like to meet another man ,but then another part of me has been damaged and that part says no. I don’t know or feel that I will ever be able to put my trust 100 %,, and give of my heart again ..
@Fifi – I’ll agree with your points wholeheartedly. Even though I’m not officially Buddhist, I have drawn on some of those concepts. One of my go to books is “When Things Fall Apart” by Pema Chodron. NC has been good for those reasons. In an ideal world someone will explain and apologize for their unkind behavior but I’ve learned that men who act this way aren’t prone to do either.
@Pam – I think so, too. My last guy moved quickly to find a new gal. I hear tales from a guy friend who goes to the same places and whom my ex doesn’t know. Guys don’t usually behave dysfunctionally just for us – it is who they are and their well-run playbook. My guy friend says, damn, that guy is a real charmer- yup. I just feel sorry for the next gal(s). I have not been inclined to date again yet for I have some rethinking to do plus I am really busy with work. My next strategy will be to not be so willing to believe words no matter how authentic they seem – to listen more closely to my gut – to take time to get to know whether his actions follow his words – and no more pedestals or getting too comfortable and available too quickly.
Your saying you will listen to your gut more closely strikes a chord. Long story but broke up with UEM about six weeks ago. He refused to answer my calls but posted on FB and twitter about my underwear and our relationship, all of which I ignored. Then he sent me obscene texts so I emailed and suggested we meet in a couple of months to talk – he told me I was dumped and my stuff was in his garage. A mutual friend begged me to talk to him, so against my gut feeling, I arranged to meet in his town one Sunday morning to “discuss our relationship” (in fact I already had all his stuff packed in my car). We agreed his town because I was staying overnight with a friend there, which he knew. At midnight I got a text from him saying he’d rather meet me in my town (30 miles away). Then at 6am I got another saying he wanted to meet as soon as “I could get back here” . Although this text was vague (typical) in my gut I KNEW he was in my house (we’d swapped keys) and I KNEW he’d been there since the first text he’d sent at midnight. I felt it like a punch in the stomach, it was such a strong knowledge – no evidence, but I KNEW. He waited until he knew I was 30 miles away overnight , before he let himself in – you don’t do that if your intentions are good. And we were supposed to be having a frank and open conversation later that morning 30 miles away! All I could think of was “this guy set up my laptop, he can get into all my financial information, he could be stealing my money, or he could be trashing my house. ” I called the police to come back to the house with me – and yep, he was there. He said he’d been hoping for a reconciliation but supposed he’d messed that up. No really? When I checked my computer – all my finances seem secure – but he’d been into my emails and sent some to his own email address. I called the police again . They called him on speaker phone and he said he’d been looking for evidence that I was considering dating again – as if that justified his actions. The police told him not to contact me again or it would be harassment – this morning I’ve received flowers and a card saying he is sorry for the catastrophic events and begs me to get in touch, distressed to think he scared me, thinks we can still work it out. No apology for entering my home. I can feel myself softening, then I have to remind myself – even before…
!!!!
Obscene texts! Posting nasty stuff about you on facebook! Setting up a time to talk and then, once you are out of the way, letting himself into our house and gong through your email! Telling the POLICE that he broke into your house to find evidence you might be dating again! Flowers and a card and we can still work it out!
Creepy obsessive controlling stalker. If you get back with him he will treat you like dirt once he’s sure of you. It’s all, and only, about control. Not love.
Change your locks and press harassment charges. The police already warned him.
You will feel SO empowered and clear to not participate in any way in his game.
It’s not like he was a terrific boyfriend — you broke up with him for a reason before all this, and I bet that reason was because he is the kind of guy who IS like this.
faith
im with ixnay. i read your story with increasing incredulity but had to gasp when you said your heart is softening? wut?
This man is dangerous. The POLICE think he’s dangerous and that’s their area of expertise.
If I knew I could break into someone’s house, snoop around and get forgiven with a bunch of flowers, I might try it myself. Be careful that you’re not equating this boundary-busting drama with real affection.
End it now and stop letting him jerk you around.
Don’t be one of those crazy couples who always has the police around sorting out their domestics.
I once just contacted someone on an online dating site – pretty pedestrian, next thing I know, I am being bombarded with SEXTS (this doesn’t seem to be covered much here) of their abs, ass, etc. We hadn’t even had a proper conversation!!
Stupidly, I flew past these red signals and tried to get a date. Can you imagine the amount of STALLING that was going on here. Jaysus. A week went past they missed two dates, they were drunk/had a big night blah blah blah, texting all the time (gawd, effing texts!!)
FLUSH!
That’s my limit now – one week and that’s it. MAXIMUM LIMIT.
TOA, I think this falls into the broader category of inappropriate behaviour. Someone you haven’t even met sending you ‘sexy pics’, or turning the conversation sexual within the first couple of conversations….I think it’s come up on here before, and I’d say it’s reason to cut them immediately.
Yes, what´s with all this texting??!! Why can´t these men make the effort to see us in person? I´ve had already two guys (who I knew in real life) trying to sext and have cybersex with me – only that. And it was very disappointing because I did fancy them before.
I even received some pics of an erection – which was a bit odd. I tried to tell myself it was kind of funny – but it really wasn´t.
Are they sick or what?
They don’t even write anything anymore! It’s just pictures of erections and the like!
I don’t think they get that that isn’t a turn-on in any sense. But it’s a really great one-shot declaration of what kind of man they are to send that. No date required!
Faith,
The others said it well, but truly, this guy is beyond fucked up. Please change your locks and stay clear of him. Sending flowers means nothing after breaking into your home, hacking into your email, sending obscene texts and posting inappropriate information on facebook.
Faith,
I hope you’re not serious!!!! I mean what does this guy have to do to you!!!!!
@Faith, wow, that is really a creepy tale. Please, I hope you are NEVER in touch with this psycho again. His behavior is way off the grid. My brother had an ex girlfriend that did really weird things like that and it escalated to frightening things.
Faith,
I’m with the others. When I was away on a research trip last year, the guy I had sublet a room from got weird on me and I let some authorities know; he too left flowers and called after he had been told, in writing, that he was not to make contact with me. The flowers and calls after that just made me more alarmed, as they should you. Let the police know that he has continued to attempt contact, so that they have a record, and for your part, avoid all contact with this person.
My EUM/MM was dying to meet my mom! wanted to take the both of us out to dinner. Once when he was in town last minute, and I refused to see him, he wanted to take her out on his own. Why? To treat her well and to treat me well in front of her? How did he plan to explain himself? Is that nuts or what? And then it would be back to the monthly/bimonthly texts and the shabby treatment? I’m with Pam, I give up!
Grace said somewhere: “We are all the “next” girl”. So true! We can judge by ourselves how they are going to treat / have treated others.
Never,
Does your mother know you were with a MM?
I don’t think she knows, she may suspect, she talked to him on the phone once and for some reason he thinks she “likes” him as in he is a nice guy. Why? It is messed up, any way you slice it! Don’t get the point of it all. Think is it some sick sh$t!
Never,
You’re right! It is messed up!
There is no future here!
@allison I think wanting to meet my mom is throwing crumbs my way, he wants me to think that he is somewhat serious about me, but he just wants to get laid when he’s in town!
A hook, just a hook.
Never,
This just eats away at your soul.
Time to cut off his supply. Permanently!
NTL, my EU was not a MM, but he also wanted to meet my Mom. But, it was odd because he was not introducing me to anyone in his life (friends, family)….I think he likes the idea of ingratiating himself into someone else’s life and feeling all important, while compartmentalizing things in his own life. I did not introduce him, and it irritated me…..why in the hell would he think I would make an important introduction when he hasn’t even introduced me to his friends? It seems like another form of future faking in a way too. He would always make these grand statements about the future, yet in the present, where was the progression?
@broadshield… I knew him for years , which in retrospect , is the answer within itself. I can’t believe I was so blind to his dysfunction for all that time. I has my suspictions I must admit , but again in retospect ..I realise now ,what kept me stuck was my wanting validation …I never got it …but the way he deceived me into being involved with him again on the last occassion of involvement is the one that was the worse. I think he was probably stringing another woman along as well. Anyhow, I do believe there are good men out there. And if I met one of those , I would be very much more aware of flashing signs , and cut it off straight away. I hadn’t ever been involved with someone who acted as he did before. This was another factor in what happened , because he was a liar , and yet has the ability to sound genuine. I realised at the end , he has an almost total lack of conscience , and any real feelings for others. His behaviour ranging from what appeared to be very caring …to treating someone almost like a stranger within a matter of hours…this man is definately a pasive/agressive personality . I’m feel certain I’m not the only woman he’s left feeling as I was . He’s probably emotionally scarred other women during his time..only someone without any real feelings can keep hurting women over and over ….
@ Pam, your text could describe a lot of aspects of my guy, too – though I was only involved with this one for 3 months. “….he was a liar , and yet has the ability to sound genuine. I realised at the end , he has an almost total lack of conscience , and any real feelings for others. …” Yep. I would also call that narcissistic behavior. This guy was on two antidepressants and said (as he broke up with me the second time) that he did not think he had the ability to feel love (after writing me various ‘love you, want to be with you forever’ cards along the way)….nor did he aparently have the ability to feel empathy. No idea how guys can seem so authentic on one level, but are such uncaring people underneath. It must be a long standing way of being. A very manicured front to hide the dysfunction underneath. It would take a psychiatrist to figure some of these cases out – I know I am not one, and do not want any more guys that are so disingenuous/inconsistent/have no integrity.
TOA – “And yes, for 3-4 months, I WAS ENRAGED LIKE HELL in the mornings I would snap wide awake and be in the most blinding fury about what he did, what he didn’t do and how he got off scot free.”
I have been experiencing this too!! I feel like it just hits me in the face sometimes, I will be going about my life and these waves of BLIND ANGER just envelop me and I feel so overwhelmed.
I am not a revengeful person, however in this situation I trusted so much and made myself so vulnerable to someone who didn’t even care and I think a lot of my anger is at myself. Like how did this happen? How didn’t I notice what was going on? I am usually so keen on these things. I am the person who my friends always come to for relationship advice and I am always able to speak into their situations, it’s like as plain as day to me what is going on there. But when it came to myself, in my own time of need, I truly let myself down. It’s very hard to forgive.
I think had I been the one to walk from him… this would be easier to swallow but to give so much of myself AND THEN be dumped on my a** like I was an annoyance… “just move on”…. well that is a deep cut that just doesn’t seem to even begin to know how to heal.
I just feel like I need justice somehow. Not only that but I want to lay HIM flat on his a** and let him see that if you mess with someone there is a PRICE you pay. Basically I want to be karma for a day!
Thanks to all who understand, it helps to know I’m not alone in these feelings. Ugh!
Yep, I still get those flashes of white-hot anger at times. GRRRRR, I could just SHAKE him till his teeth rattle–!
I’m trying to learn how to redirect those bouts of rage to productive ends. Today, for example, I was in the shower, and started ruminating, and got all fired up. I decided to push back: “Oh yeah, buddy? Guess what, I’m taking this anger and I’m going to USE it.” Let the energy push me to do something good for myself — not punish myself, but do something that advances my cause.
It doesn’t always work, but it’s a start. Failing anything productive, there are always pillows to be punched.
I read something somewhere (vedic astrology) about energetic bonds that are set up during sex and get energy flowing form the woman to the man, even long after they’ve broken up and he’s with someone else, yep, still sucking energy and feeding off his ex! Outrageous, huh! There are even some remedies such as wearing a piece of black onyx for 7 days in the pants, preferably during the monthly period, and then putting it into the ground to break the energetic bond. Voodoo, nonsense, panacea, may be, whatever works! I tried this thing with the onyx once and really felt better immediately, it felt like the obsession stopped. The main thing is to get one’s minds off the sucker.
wow…..its not just me.
I am the OPPOSITE of being angry, and so it was very very scary to feel these feelings. Curiously, the anger seemed to dissipate by 9 am so I could have a normal day, but come 9pm I’d be feeling nostalgic, I’d fall asleep and then *BANG* 3am, snap wide awake in fury!
Watch out – next usually comes mega depression, and in this stage you can completely wind yourself and feel like you’ve just woken up after a nuclear bomb blast has been through your life and scorched everything to the ground, leaving nothing but a desolate, empty landscape. Don’t go it alone – get yourself down to the psych and explain to them that you’ve had a non-relationship or been with an unavailable and get help. I was so comprehensively and completely destroyed that I needed sessions every week while going through this stage, sometimes twice a week!
TOA, if you wake up at the same time every night, this might be an indication that some organ isn’t working properly. 3 a.m., as far as I know, is the time of the liver (Traditional Chinese Medicine, I totally recommend seeing a good practitioner), you may benefit from a liver detox diet: no butter, eggs, chocolate, no peanuts, only skimmed milk and cheese, basically, go light on the animal fats. Plus, go light on whatever we know is not good for the liver, such as drinks. Oh, and totally expect to see a difference in terms of belt size.
This could have been written TO me, about me. I let that married man twist me in a million different inhuman ways over the last few years, and I took every single blow he dealt. It’s as if I was begging for his indifference, his disrespect, while he tossed me the occasional bone to keep me hanging on. It wasn’t like that in the beginning. I knew the game, though I’d never played it. I knew the rules. I MADE the rules. He came to me in the beginning, begging for my attention, my time. Then somehow, over the course of the affair, I started feeling trapped and needy, thinking of him when I should not. I held back those feelings, but naturally he sensed my need and that gave him power over me. Power that he abused every way possible. He would set up dates, meetings for sex really, then he would not show up. Or would call with a flimsy excuse at the last minute. I took this crap! He would text me if he had a free block of time from the pitiful wife (who I feel so sorry for now), and expect me to meet him – wherever, whenever. I never said no. Not one time. I would dash off from family dinner, or the gym, or from whatever I may be doing, and I would meet that sorry excuse of a human being that I’d become addicted to. I once drove 900 miles one way to spend two nights with him. The more I disrespected my own worth, the more he took advantage of me. I would call and beg him to take me back after I’d broken up with him. And I broke up with him dozens of times when I felt I couldn’t take his abuse, but I couldn’t not break free from the addiction. Each needy text, every needy call, proved to him that I was worth nothing and he treated me as such. He even started disrespecting me physically, with out of control rough sex. I took that too. Then one day his wife found out and that was the best day of my life. It’s been a little more than three months since she found his phone and read our twisted texts. She called me and I couldn’t speak to her. I felt lower than I’ve ever felt in my life. He told her a million lies about me. Suddenly, it didn’t matter what he thought as I started to see him as the scum he truly was. I valued myself so little that I let him treat me like that, and that is the hardest part to deal with. I LET it happen. The three years it was going on, I left my husband, started drinking, have gained weight, am smoking again, haven’t…
WantingMore, maybe you could take a look at the LAA proboards, there are many testimonies like yours on there. You talk about an addiction to this guy, it seems in many cases these toxic relationships do operate as an addiction inside your mind, and at LAA they use methods to get out of that state and have a full recovery. Hope that helps.
Sorry Natalie, I feel like the blog hog this weekend but your recent posts have elicited so many wonderful comments, I can’t help myself and it is helping myself.
WantingMore, I think my first post on BR was so similar to yours, when I read what you wrote, I thought it was one of my prior comments. You articulated precisely how my affair with the MM started. He came a begging and, in the beginning, I MADE the rules. I signed up to play, thinking I could call the shots. What a shocker when I ended up at his beck and call, twisted into a pretzel, begging for crumbs, and overlooking major disappointments as you describe. Natalie does a wonderful job of describing this phenomenon in her book Mr. U and the FBG. It’s a classic bait and switch commonly used by AC/EUM/MM’s with Miss Independent, Miss Self-Sufficient FBG’s. I strongly recommend this book and her new Dreamer book. OW’s are Dreamers.
After so many disappointments (too many to list), I broke it off about every other week only to sign back up for more of his crap. By the time it ended (his wife found out too), I didn’t have to worry about dropping what I was doing, I wasn’t doing anything! I was on ice, waiting to see if he could get free from his wife. I had no life other than him. Other than the fact I was 50 with a young adult daughter and a career and my own house. All that was marginalized and on the back burner.
I felt lower than low when his wife found out. That’s when the fantasy ended and reality hit. I was complicit in the lying, cheating, and deception. I didn’t let it happen. I engaged to the detriment of myself, my family and friends as well as his wife and family. It’s taken a better part of a year and a half to come to grips with my role, be accountable, and it hasn’t been pretty. You can put your life back in order now that you are free. You can learn to value you. Cheating MM’s are toxic sewer scum. It takes all my reserve if I meet an attached male who is chatting me up (it’s my first question). If he’s attached, I don’t even waste my breath telling him he’s a walking, talking cesspool, arsehole. I nod, flush, and move on.
I hope one day your handle will be “Got More”. You can.
Teddie, you made me laugh out aloud…”The main thing is to get one’s mind off the sucker.” So frigging true. I can’t even begin to recount the disappointments, mostly disappointment in me for settling for such crap or how I settled for being so low on the totem pole of priorities. I’ll be googling vedic astrology and black onyx. I just finished the section in my class on traditional healing, shamanism, magic, witchcraft, and sorcery (voodoo). Who cares what it is if it works. This stuff works for a ton of folks around the world. After a year and change on BR and reading Natalie’s books, particularly the Dreamer book, and doing my grief work, I’m starting to gain some traction but I figure a little black onyx in my pants during that time of the month (yeah, 53 next week and still menstruating) can’t hurt, right? Certainly much better than having him in my pants! Give me black onyx any day of the week. Thanks for your comment. Still laughing.
Ladies I was with you regarding the red hot/white hot anger at how he seemed to move on with no regard for me. Then once I could focus on me, that searing anger turned inward. How could I allow myself to be treated like a blow-up toy? How did I allow myself to be last on the list of priorities? How did I suffer through two years of disappointments? That’s when the real gut wrenching work began. He knew from day one he could treat me like shit because I gleefully signed up to be treated like a blow up toy. As Natalie points out, he knew I’d put up with his shit because I did. My actions spoke louder than angry words cos I always signed back up and cooked dinner too. I might have well been pissing into the wind. Bottom line for me has been to turn the focus back to me. If I don’t want to be treated like a blow up toy, my actions have to follow my words. I’m still going to get some black onyx just to be sure.
Hang in there ladies. Anger has been very helpful to me in moving a bit on. Anger is tricky though. It’s got to be managed and productive. I do like the image of shaking him ’till his teeth rattle”… I won’t. I’ve spent so many hours telling him all about himself, it’s just a waste of time. He is not going to change no matter what I say. I’ve said it all. At some point, it’s just time to stop talking and start doing. My best to you all.
I googled Onyx. Wow!
Runnergirl, you have so much estrogen, you’re a young chick!
This onyx thing is supposed to work even if you’re not menstruating, by wearing it close to the vagina (under the pads is fine) for 7 days during the whole cycle, you let it absorb the energy, and by putting it into the ground, you disconnect the bond to the sucker, like a lightning rod, sort of. I felt instant alleviation.
He, he, you’re right, keeping the sucker out of your pants in the first place is a better way of keeping your mind off him. Bad enough we suffer and are depleted, but just the idea he may be still fueling himself off our energy, arggghh!
I think runner and teddie I might go for some nice black onyx jewellery. Why hide it in your pants?
I don’t understand why friends treat other friends with competition, insults, lack of respect and value, and the need to feel superior to friends that are loyal and supportive. Don’t get it.
“Claiming that the reason why they treat you as they do is because, is for instance your the “strong” one in the family.” This is always what lame excuses my parents use all the time on me. Especially why they’re so strict with me and really easy going with my younger siblings. They’re always full of BS.
thankyou for your thoughtful reply runnergirl. I’m very tired from severe sleep disturbance, caused by googling xAC a few nights ago & realising he is back with the mother of his child – like I give a brass razoo (!) & an emotionally abusive episode w my son 2 nights ago. My circadian pattern has totally reversed from just this
I take meds @ 11 pm (which is supposed to help me sleep & relieve my chronic pain injury & under normal circumstances does) but these 2 stressors have been so distressing (not logically – but emotionally & on a somatic level) that they overpower the meds so I’m up till 7 am, take more meds then desperate to sleep, which I’ve then done all day for past 3 days 
Upshot? My exam study timetable (which had not a single day to spare in it) has been shot to pieces 
Even starting immediately 2 get bk on track – I will now b under prep’d for my exam. Nightmare! And all caused by my own actions! You are right. It’s ME I’m angry with most of all. These people (my Son included) are abusive, yet, I placed myself in harms way, knowing that (xAC less so as it took a while for me to recognise that the 1st weekend was sex assault – by the time I did, I not only reported it to the police but also have had no furthe physical contact ie I havent seen him since Jan 2011, from which time on I’ve tried to end it, with repeated failed NC attempts).
I know this is just my low self esteem talking (as after what has happened with xAC this has taken a battering) but I feel like such a loser. I’m trying not to beat myself up about it, but I of all people, after years of counselling myself, working with survivors of DV & sexual assault, should have known better. I’m far from new to the journey of self discovery & taking responsibility for my behaviour. I can only put it down to, notwithstanding a binge drinking problem which was my reason for leaving xAC back then, after saying ‘go to rehab & if I’m single when you get a year sober, we can reasess then’ the xAC did not display any of his other many dysfunctions when I first fell in love with him 2 decades ago (& because I didn’t live with him back then – it took me a whole 2 1/2 yrs to even realise he had a binge drinking problem at the time!). Thus, when he returned, 17 years later, with a good job he’d had for a number of years etc, I thought, ‘he came back for me – so maybe it’s meant to be’. What a crock! I despise him now. Truely despise him. (Which is actually great, as in a cpl of yrs when I’m ready to start dating again – ie I’m off the market for an extended period to attend to my physical & mental health as well as to rebuild my career & resolve my $ issues – I will be fully emotionally available with no residual feelings).
So, now what? Well. 1. I will move heaven & earth to re establish my sleep pattern so I can resume exam prep tomorrow. The lesson? A simple google of xAC CAN & DID do enormous damage. Who’d of thought? Sigh. It’s not like I didn’t get him to set his facebook page to private ages ago (he complied & we’ve both blocked each other. My fb is set to private also). I guess not only do I have to abide by all of my NC measures (which are all in place) but even a simple google search is out. Why did I do that I wonder? I think really, I was just bored whilst surfing my iphone in bed late at night. Such a small thing causing such terrible upset? Ugh. FLUSH!!!!
Topline information: he is a clown.
Bottom line information: NCR & FLUSH!
I fell off the wagon too. It was painful, but I got back on.
I’m very tired from severe sleep disturbance, caused by googling xAC a few nights ago & realising he is back with the mother of his child – like I give a brass razoo (!)
Man, these guys are soooooooooooo predictable!
They really are so predictable, TOA. Reminds me of those Talking Ken dolls, where you pull the string and they doll says one of about 5 or so lines:
“I’m not ready for a relationship right now.”
“Um, I went back to my ex.”
“I miss youuuuuuuuuu…um, no, I haven’t left my wife.”
“Aww, can we still be friends?”
“wut r u doin l8r 2nite”
Etc.
Hey Teachable,
Yeah it is amazing what damage can occur due to a little cyber-contact. Natalie and the others are totally spot on, NC means NO contact not even a little cyber snooping. I learned the hard way too. At least you know the truth, he’s back with the woman and he’s abusive and has a drug problem and is raising a son. His plate is pretty full. Now, it’s time for you and for you to get back on track with regards to your exams and it sounds like your plate is pretty full with your life. You can make up for the lost time with regards to your exams.
I did the kicking my arse around the backyard too. I had been in counseling for five years after ending a verbally abusive relationship, only to sign up to suffer the disappointments inherent in being an OW with someone who was a cardboard cut out of my father. I should have known better too. One day a while back when I was beating myself up, Blaise Parker made a wonderful comment, something to the effect of, maybe the universe has sent you your one last ass. Maybe the universe sent you this abusive, attached, returning childhood sweetheart asshole to make sure you will always take care of you and never allow others to take advantage of you. You’ve removed yourself from this creep’s It’s Okay to Disappoint and Abuse Rolodex. You have a plan to rebuild your life. You are NOT a loser. I felt that way too. The fact that this creep is a drug addicted abuser has nothing whatsoever to do with you. When you have time and are bored surfing the net, Natalie has some great posts on forgiveness and being accountable rather than blaming.
I am so sorry you learned the hard way. This guy needs more than rehab. He needs a swift kick up his back side and a long prison term. I’m also sorry about your son. Keep focused on you though. Keep focused on rebuilding your life. You don’t have time for this loser.
Girl, you can do so much better than that LOSER. Glad to see you are going to start taking care of you. He’s not worth losing one minute of sleep.
Wanting to meet my mom is so messed up too, is he so enamoured with himself? I am obviously not a proirity, he is not my boyfriend, sick SOB!
Re: article for 7 needs of husbands. Would be almost acceptable except perfection is IMPOSSIBLE!! lol!! And, totally impossible with EU men, who are unable to return in kind. Both parries have to be emotionally, spiritually mature, and still these standards are pretty high and unforgiving. Yes, I’ve seen a lot of abuse justified in the name of God, totally misinterpreted by imperfect and self serviant mankind.
thanks for feedback titi. I do appreciate it. I perhaps should clarify I’m not depressed b.cuz I’m not looking after myself though. Rather it’s a secondary effect of a seriously debilitating chronic pain condition which has prevented me from working (& studyingly mostly also) for 18 mths now. In addition I have cardiac problems. In a nutshell? My body which was once a workhorse has stopped dead in it’s tracks and said ‘sorry kiddo, but you aint going ANYWHERE’ lol I might laugh about it but it’s not really funny. I’m virtually housebound & having previously led a VERY active lifestyle, this on top of having lost edging up to around $80,000 in lost wages alone (ie the portion which I’m not insured) & this placing me in a precarious $ position (as work may be out according to the Drs for ‘a few years’ well, as a former career woman, it is all a tad depressing! lol I take yr point though & am trying hard to just focus on nurturing myself atm
Cc I almost cried when I read your post. I know logically through my past work that I’m far from the only woman in the world to have experienced these things but it’s SO embarressing & humiliating to admit the shambles my life is in! So long as I don’t get in any deeper though I suppose. Meanwhile, it’s just baby steps, baby steps…sigh.
I guess maybe I should stick around too because even the thought of breaking NC w xAC gives me the shivers. I’m SO traumatised by everything that happened (& yes, I do take a measure of responsibility for placing myself in harms way). Who’da thunk though that someone I thought was my soul mates all those years ago wud force themselves on me sexually & then try to entice me to suicide to keep their transgression a secret? Makes me shudder!! YIKES!!!
Love to all you beautiful strong women. Yr all so very inspiring!! x
A-frickin-MEN!!! I’m tired of the men that want to fuss and argue with me because they can’t handle the fact that I called them on their own shortcomings! I will not stoop to accommodate a man because a). I don’t have to, and b). any guy that was worth the effort and really wanted me wouldn’t require me to! I’ve realized that I’m worth way more and I’m living in accordance to that now. Time waits for no man, and neither do I! NEXT!!!
Hi Natalie,
I LOVE this article. In particular, I appreciate you saying “what you don’t want is certain people keeping you in their mental It’s OK To Disappoint Roladex”. It really paints a vivid picture to be avoided at all costs. Thank you for sharing your wisdom!!
Warmly,
Susan
Ok, still making progress.
I’ve managed to walk away from the AC’s mate (useless) and ask someone else for a date. They seem shy as hell and say yes to everything and check all the time if everything is good – to the point where I wonder if I’m actually with them or someone fake!
It has been a week now and it seems like a STRUGGLE to get them to arrange anything or even phone me. It feels like I am doing all the work. I have tried hard to phone phone but they text back and it is almost like a battle. Sigh. And they work shifts/busy blah blah
I think this is code red and mission abort. Very cr*p after just one week, and it is already uphill! The upshot is at least where I would flush them after many many months, I can flush this one now. Are they EUM? I think they’re just not making an effort and the whole thing has the hallmarks of an excuse relationship waiting to happen already. We went out last night and they were tired all the night blah blah got up at 4 am yada yada…
I think I will flush them! TOA presses on!
tired
Do this:
Ask them out
Go out
Then let him come to you. One phonecall if you must.
In that time, just get on with your life. No planning your next phone call, or what you will say, or more phone calls or telling yourself it’s been a week (which isn’t long) or calling it a code red or saying he’s EUM. It’s only been one date and unless something awful happened like an assault, just let it go if he’s not interested. On your first date, ALL you should be doing is a) finding out if he’s single and b) having fun.
Dislcaimer: I’m crap at dating.
Grace, may I say that your response to TOA is perfect and helpful as I contemplate the dating scene at 5frigging3. TOA, I appreciate your comment. I totally get the distinction between repeated disappointments from engaging with a EUM (for years) vs dating (one date) as a discovery phase. I’d just register the feedback you have received, or lack thereof, and give it a rest.
And Grace, may I gently suggest that you may not be crap at dating? Could that be some past baggage negative tapes? Your comment about being crap at dating when so many of your wonderful comments on BR indicate the contrary made me think about me. Am I crap at dating or have I never tried for fear of disappointment, yet again. It’s about having fun.
PS. My Grace pepper plant has tons of buds and two peppers a half an inch long.
TOA, why are you asking a man out? If he is interested he would ask you. This is not about red flag behaviour from him, or you needing to flush! Its about celebrating your feminine energy and knowing that a guy who wants to date you will pursue you. This is about you, not him !!!
TOA, try to relax, dating should be fun. It sounds like you’re trying too hard to force it with every guy you ask out or go on a date with (or trying to determine very quickly whether you should write him off as an EUM). If a guy is interested, he will call you. He will ask you out. Just let it be and see what happens–if the guy isn’t calling, then move on. Especially for the first few dates, let him initiate contact and make plans so that you’re sure he’s interested and not just going along with your suggestions.
I don’t know if I’m reading things wrong in the situation with my ‘ex’ or if it’s me that’s the problem. Having been in contact with him again for a couple weeks I am doubting what I thought I had figured out.
We had spent some time together and ended up in an argument. I asked to meet again and discuss in person what had happened and he would say not now, maybe next week, or just ignore me. This putting it off went on for a month, no matter how I tried to arrange a time and day that was convenient for him, so I stopped trying to fix things with him.
Weeks later we bumped into each other on a night out with mutual friends. I gave him the cold shoulder but he wouldn’t leave me alone. Tried to charm his way back into my good books.
He said we should meet up sometime soon. I said I’m busy for the next while.
Then he started texting me to meet up.
I put it off for a couple of weeks but he was so insistent so I gave in and met him for coffee in a busy place that he suggested.
After some akward chat where he prattled on about himself, he asked were we on bad terms, I said no because I didn’t want to start bickering in public.
I sent him a text later telling him why I had been upset with him on that night out. he told me I was being harsh and ridiculous. A text argument followed where he told me
-that I was trying to make him look the bad one,
-that I wasnt innocent,
- that the conditions had been set (HIS conditions) and he’d been honest about his conditions,
- that he wudnt have let things go so far but I had pushed him into it,
- I had expected things of him and demanded things from him,
-that he’d needed a friend and I hadn’t shown him any compassion during his stressful times,
-that I didn’t care about him
-and what was wrong with two people having some fun ( he meant sexual fun) because things could have developed into something more (if I’d not had expectations and made demands).
I asked him to meet me so we could have a private chat face to face instead of texting or meeting in a public place and he said he didn’t want to meet for a fight. I said not for a fight, to talk instead of texting and he didn’t reply.
I am frustrated beyond belief because i know he won’t meet me and he’ll just want to smooth things over and play nice next time our paths cross.
am I being unreasonable?
Confused,
This is a textbook example of the bait and switch that Natalie described so well in the MA-book. He turned the tables on you by loading you with guilt, self-doubt and second-guessing. Flush!
Confused
Yes you are unreasonable. You meet him, he keeps being who he is, you get mad at who he is, you want to meet him to tell himabout himself and on and on. It is unreasonable to expect someone to be something they are not. It is unreasonable to expect someone to want what they don’t want.
You’re frustrated beyond belief because you won’t accept the truth.
When they confuse you, don’t go to them for clarity, stay away. You say your paths cross, that’s not strictly true. You’re actively pursuing him for your own agenda. Nuke him.
And, yes, he’s persistent. It’s because he keeps getting results. Nuke him.
Confused,
Why are you wasting your time with this???
EUMs and Assclowns don’t like to have bright lights shone on either their face or their sh*t. This person KNOWS that you don’t like them and that their reputation is damaged with you, so now they are on a reputation rescue mission where they have to convince and basically railroad you into an alternative reality where (a) they’re not an asshole/assclown, (b) you think they’re amazing, (c) their fringe benefits are restored. Just like Nat keeps saying that you shouldn’t have to convince someone to be in a LTR, you shouldn’t have to convince someone that you’re not an asshole.
Time to go NC on this clown.
Yes, and this is reset button stuff!
I sent him a text later telling him why I had been upset with him on that night out. he told me I was being harsh and ridiculous. A text argument followed where he told me. Stop pumping this clown, do you want to be right or happy (BR post on this).
-that I was trying to make him look the bad one
Who cares? It’s over (or it should be). Who is doing the looking?
This is an ego puff!
-that I wasnt innocent,
- that the conditions had been set (HIS conditions) and he’d been honest about his conditions,
- that he wudnt have let things go so far but I had pushed him into it,
Wow, he makes it sound like you’re responsible for EVERYTHING, which is just BS. You didn’t have a LTR with yourself or a mirror of course…
- I had expected things of him and demanded things from him,
-that he’d needed a friend and I hadn’t shown him any compassion during his stressful times,
-that I didn’t care about him
POOR PATHETIC ME WHINE.
-and what was wrong with two people having some fun ( he meant sexual fun) because things could have developed into something more (if I’d not had expectations and made demands).
Waaaaaaa! Boo-hoo! If he wants to have fun, why the hell can’t he go pay a prostitute.
Confused,
Why do you want to talk to this guy? He’s messing you around, has already said that all he wants is “some fun” with you, and he does not want to have a real conversation with you (again, because he isn’t serious and only wants what ‘fun’ you have to offer). Stop trying to reason with someone who is unreasonable. At best, he’s incredibly immature and selfish. A person who wants “something more” with you does not stipulate that you need to be up for casual sex and have no expectations before he will consider a relationship to be on the table. Get rid of him.
Yes, you’re being unreasonable.
You’re expecting something from someone who has shown and told you he doesn’t want you to have expectations. He doesn’t care like you care.
Please go not contact this instant. It’s the only way out of being miserable.
sorry for so many posts. i’ll keep this one shorter than a thesis. lol
runnergirl u sound SO together. I really like u. u’v done the work & r walking the talk & it shows! u should b so proud of how u’v turned things around! i might hunt around for some onyx too! that made me chuckle & Im a recovering hippie so shouldn’t b too much of a stretch!
& yes TOA, totally predictable. Also gross. Yukko stinkybottom scummy scraggley AC’s! Nat, it shouldn’t be EU but Euwwww! lol
ps Isobel & runnergirl my therapist gave me another analogy today. He said me googling xAC was like being a curious child who just can’t resist sticking my finger in the electric socket! Every time I do it, I get shocked & it hurts, but still, after a while I get curious again! Hmmph! ~hands on hips~
Well, no more curiosity here! I don’t want to end up a dead kitty (even though I almost am already lol) so the power has been disconnected cuz I’ve decided to stop paying the price/bill!
Hi Teachable,
When I was seeing a counsellor whilst still in a relationship with my EUwww she always used to say to me, you keep going back like you can’t quite believe he is like he is. Every time he did something bad I would just not quite believe it and went back for another look. Or I would think it must be me cos no one is that bad, right? She also said I had an extremely long tether to get to the end of. But get to the end of it I did eventually. Maybe see it as needing to snap that tether – you get further and further away but until it finally breaks there is always that teeny tiny connection and temptation to be drawn back in. Hope you are feeling ok today. Keep well x
Atta girl, teachable. Every time you choose NOT to Google him, you’re choosing yourself. Keep flexing that Choose-You muscle, and you’ll grow nice and strong.
Thank you for your comment Tea Cozy. It really truly is the case where no contact means absolutely NO CONTACT, not even a google. Although my past google slips didn’t result in health issues or tangible contact, it was keeping me stuck. A new form of cyber-stuck.
Teachable, Tea Cozy and the others are right, every time you choose NOT to google him, you are choosing yourself and developing your Choose-You muscle. Tea Cozy, I’ve been really working on this so your comment helped me tremendously. Thank you as I continue to dig out of cyber-stuck and grow nice and strong. What a wonderful vision. Nice and strong.
Hi Confused,
you are definately not being unreasonable. He”s a dickwad & trying to manage down yr expectations. He has blatently distespected you. Unless yr up for more of the same (& worse, as typically things get progressively worse), FLUSH! x
The greatest amount of disappointment actually comes from continuing to hold out hope after someone has shown and told you who they are.
Holy!!! I needed some early morning BR at work for damage control.
I started seeing someone finally after the break up + NC since Nov 1st 2011. I felt so guilty for finally hooking up with someone new (it was a bit disappointing) that I thought of ringing the ex this morning. I still feel like I belong to him. I am over the pain but I can’t seem to cut the attachment.
I know – “Quit seeking a rejection retraction”!!! I’m actually the one who’s trying to push the reset button. I have done it mentally and even in my dreams it turns out badly! Must tell myself to keep moving forward. Ah, it’s so hard
Atrophy,
Sorry to hear it. I remember feeling the same way–”I still feel like I belong to him.”
Even the thought of kissing someone else over six months later just felt wrong, and made me sad. I didn’t want to be with anyone else, and I guess I still couldn’t accept that we weren’t together/would not be together again. (Of course, it didn’t help that he was still in contact and I had not gone NC).
@ confusedd he is twisting everything to make you think you are at fault . Don’t clarify anything, the vicious circle begins again. I almost broke nc but your post made me think twice, let me return the favor don’t bother!
Confusedd…. I understand!
This is exactly the kind of BS my AC pulled on me. He turned EVERYTHING around and really effed with my head, my self esteem, he did it in such a way that I truly believed everything was my fault.
I seriously could have written what you posted as my own saga which is just another sign that it’s not personal, this is a GAME to them. He feels like you are starting to wise up about him and so he will NEVER and listen to me NEVER actually sit down and have a conversation with you about what is going on between the two of you. That is the kiss of death to these boys. He knows you will ask questions he doesn’t want to answer and the minute you realize how he really feels it’s OVER for him.
It’s a cat and mouse game and it’s on PURPOSE. Please understand that. Your situation is not different and it’s not special, it is just like every other situation on here. He is playing with your emotions and effing with your head. Please try and see that.
IT IS NOT YOU, IT IS HIM! Repeat that to yourself ….
These guys are so disgusting, seriously I feel like they got the same memo, not one of them can even be a little more creative than the other. It’s all the same sh*t… like they share the same retarded brain. UGH!
ToA, runnergirl, polly, teacozy, sophia, Cc
Thankyou to everyone for yr kind words of encouragement. I’m deeply touched that people who don’t even know me would express such caring sentiments to a stranger on the net. I guess I’ve hung my ‘dirty linen’ out here for all to see. Unlike the real world (other than with my therapist & closest friends / sister), here, I feel like I don’t have to pretend that everything is ok. You all must have read my posts & thought, heck, this woman is in one hell of a pickle!
I feel like road kill today. I slept last night for the first time after 6 nights of ZERO sleep (sometimes w daytime naps – often times not). I worked out that something I was doing with my medication was re-inforcing the reversal of my circadian pattern. I broke that last night so that is a great first step to getting back on track.
The exam prep is thus a week behind. I may not be able to salvage that (& may have to sit the exam next semester instead if granted exemption on medical grounds). I plan to return to study this arvo. We will see.
In a nutshell, although what I’ve been through is horriffic the comment that it was a lesson of one final involvement ever in an an unhealthy relationship is how I’m choosing to see it. As you all suggest, it’s time for me to love myself no holds barred. Even though I haven’t seen xAC in person for almost 18 mths now, it’s still only 5 wks of NC with him (I don’t count the google incident as breaking this but won’t be doing that again). As such, & given I have a planned stay in hospital coming up re health issues, I know I have a long way to go. It helps to know I’m not alone.
Thankyou everyone. You’re all very kind. x
EU men are like bullies. They are emotionally stale individuals that manipulate your emotions. They have no capacity for empathy. If you look at bully psychology, you will notice they suffer from low self esteem and the only way for them to make themselves feel better is by making others feel lower than they are. There is a bullying cycle/pattern. They play mind games in an effort to control another person who they view as weaker thus creating a misplaced sense of their own self importance. Bullies are really cowards and a coward will always backdown in the face of courage. Be strong and choose YOU above all else. Dail affirmations to help:
I AM WORTHY OF RESPECT
I AM STRONG AND COURAGEOUS
I DESERVE TO BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT
I AM A DECENT HUMAN BEING
I RESPECT AND LOVE MYSELF UNCONDITIONALLY
Good Luck Ladies………….MM
After years of reading baggage reclaim (Commented a couple of times) I have stopped beating myself up about someones behaviour, I am not there yet but my self esteem is way better than before, I have learnt to let go and be grateful an assho@le is not bothering me anymore, I have stopped to think they are happy when they are with someone else, sometime maybe they are better with someone else, I choose to focus on, well they were assholes with me and that was unacceptable to me. I read a lot of comments and say this was sooo me or this is soooo me. This year is the first year I have realised how eu I am myself, there is a long road ahead but atleast I am aware and am doing something about it and reaching milestones.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, I was starting to buy into his crap…he’s very charming and manipulative.
Starting NC again!
Can someone explain the ‘bait and switch?’
I found this post that explains it fairly clearly:
http://celebratethetruth.blogspot.com/2008/09/bait-switch.html
“This is a game that has been played by con artists for centuries without number….all manipulative techniques involve baiting a person with something he or she desires, and then substituting it for something else.”
A dirty tactic indeed. This is to confuse you and mess with your mind! He is an emotional bully. MM
I really stuffed up. I’ve been seeing this guy that I met online. But I gave it up too soon. He says he never waits and waiting is dumb. He asked me to be exclusive, yet he hadn’t taken his profile down. We had a fight. He said I don’t open up enough, but we haven’t known each other long. He said he can’t read me, yet I can’t read him either. I don’t know if it’s just my baggage making me paranoid. But he ditched me on The weekend coz he had work to do. And he was busy texting someone right in front of me before bed. I feel confused.
@ Fedup
Yikes, you know this is going sour! I’m sorry to say but he obviously isn’t taking you seriously or he would be showing you more respect. I’m in a similar position. Met someone, gave it up too easy, he’s been nice and fun but mentionned that he wasn’t looking for anything serious.
This is top line data! I can’t ignore it or want to change his mind. So I’m giving him the opportunity to take me out on the weekend for a dinner (since I paid last time), give back his stuff that’s at my place and then flush!
Life’s too short to waste your time trying to fight for someone’s affection. They should want to spend that time with you! Exclusively!!! xo
It’s been cemented and confirmed how much I denied and rationalized bad, disappointing behavior from my most recent ex Mr.EUM. I had my fortyith bday two days ago and get the lamest txt today. “Happy belated bday. Sorry its late (as usual).hope it was a great one!” Are u effing kidding me! Really?!?!?! We have been broke up for two months. I have had NO contact. It was over I bought your book, have been in therapy and there was no way in hell I would reply to something so lame and in reference to your post disappointing! Im moving on and have vowed to know my boundaries and know what Mr. Available is all about. I’m tired of lather, rinse and repeat. As if I would settle for those minuscule crumbs for a 40th bday wish! We dated for 10u mos I saw glitter and gold that eventually started to tarnish. He was in the process and I assume still of getting a divorce. He was already code red and I blatantly ignored my gut. I’ve learned a lot! I hope he felt it when I SLAMMED the door in his toe he was trying to keep in my life!