After I broke up with an assclown many moons ago, I found myself wondering about getting back with him. He was no better than he was when I was with him but I decided that the desire to be around him was so great that it must be indicative of how great our ‘love’ was – surely love would conquer all?
Fortunately common sense kicked in on that occasion because I recognised that not only was he no better, but he was actually worse. However, I am not alone in wanting a man and a relationship that’s no good for me and even though I went on to be involved with even more assclowns, one thing that stuck with me is that there is a reason why you broke up.
You can gloss it over, inflate it with your vision of the great, happy ever after, but in the cold light of day, you cannot ignore the fact that the relationship ended for a reason and if that reason still exists, even if you choose to ignore it, the relationship will fail again.
This is a key fundamental because as women who have a great capacity to expend vast amounts of emotional energy on poor relationship investments, we love to:
Believe and insist that they can change – I Can Change Him syndrome
Suffer with Women Who Talk and Think Too Much syndrome – overdiscussing and overthinking the relationship so that we can mask inaction
Project our vision of things on people or decide that they will do something because it’s what we do if we were them.
All of this means that we end up spending far too much time with men who are unworthy of us because we’re not being real about the relationship and then when it’s over, we continue to expend even more energy pining for the illusion and trying to restart the relationship.
Most of the time when I have wanted to get back with an ex, it’s for the security because there is the fear of the unknown which seems less palatable than being around someone who saps the good out of you.
Fear is often the key driver – fear of being alone, fear of starting over, fear of him being better for someone else even though he’s crap with you, fear that all men are the same so you may as well settle, fear you can’t do any better, and the list goes on…
Getting back with an ex needs to be a positive step that enables you both to go forward.
It can’t be a case of you deciding to shut out the reality of him and the relationship by choosing to ignore or gloss over the reasons why the relationship ended, because it doesn’t change the fact that not only do they still exist, but those issues still exist for him, even if he’s not prepared to acknowledge them or be accountable for his part in the relationship.
Wanting, wishing, willing for things to be exactly as you imagine them to be is not the best use of your energy. It is important for you to get real because the sooner that you get real, the sooner you can establish whether there is anything to actually go back to.
Don’t get me wrong – there are people who break up, get back together and go on to bigger and better things together, but invariably when poor relationships end, they’re supposed to, it’s just that human nature makes us resistant to change. We’re also resistant to working at things but we’re also resistant to recognising that we need a foundation to a relationship in the first place for there to be something to work on.
And this is where many of us have and will come a cropper – if you are habitually involved with emotionally unavailable men and assclowns, your relationships have little or no foundation which doesn’t give you a great place to start from when you’re considering returning.
You also need to recognise that the reasons why a relationship works for one person is not the same as the other parties reasons, particularly in a poor relationship.
The guy may be comfortable with being able to behave in a certain way – if he’s been used to being allowed to take the piss in the relationship, show up when he feels like it, call when he wants to, be taken back when he’s played away, not have his lack of contribution questioned etc, it’s a bit of a leap to think that he’ll be comfortable playing the dutiful boyfriend.
We can’t assume that because we love someone that they in turn should embrace that love and do as we expect – as I’ve said before, loving someone doesn’t create an automatic IOU.
You also need to consider that in poor relationships, often what we think is love, is drama and fear.
The big question you have to ask yourself is: what are you going back to?
When you put aside what you’d like to be going to if only he did x,y, and z in the future and look at his consistent behaviour, you need to weigh up the reality of who he is. If he’s been a jackass for 10 out of 12 months and you’re focused on the first 2 months as a basis for going back, something is rather jacked up about your optimism because he’s been an assclown for 83% of your relationship and you’re living it up on a meagre 17%.
You then need to ask yourself: have we been down this road before?
If you’ve broken up numerous times, what’s so different this time?
You think he sounds more contrite, more desperate? Has he made oodles of promises? You desperately want it to work? If you’ve broken up many a time, the likelihood is that unless something is dramatically different and he is consistently action focused (and you are too), you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Remember – the level of upset you feel after you break up doesn’t correlate with the amount of love you think you feel for him – if you have low self-esteem and a penchant for poor relationships, you hanker for the bad stuff.
Be real about what you’re going back to. If I had gone back to the assclown I mentioned at the beginning, I’d have been going back to a flaky guy who wasn’t sure from one week to the next how much of a boyfriend he wanted to be. I’d have been wondering who he’s flirting with when he’s out, waiting by the phone fannying my life away, and feeling disappointed by his failure to live up to the promise I had created for him. The real him wasn’t very attractive.
Your thoughts?
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. Also find out more about my No Contact Rule web seminar, or if you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship, check out my consultation service.
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I cannot post at work, so I prepared the following post planning to post it here tonight. Later in the day, I learned his profile is hidden on the OLD site on which we met, which likely means he is “in a relationship” with someone. Given that, I modified my post a bit to reflect this turn of events.
There are times when, ever hopeful, I want to contact XEUM, optimistically thinking it will spark something in him and he will want me back. When these moments come upon me, I think about what will happen if I give in to my urges. Reason takes over and I force myself to acknowledge that, even if he were “nice” to me when I called, it would likely be a “polite” niceness with him thinking in his mind, “Oh, God, I thought I was rid of her.” OR, “Man, she’s apin in the neck, hasn’t she figured out I’m not interested?” OR, knowing him as I do, be might also very well think,” Cool, I knew she’d come around…now I can have a come and go, get the sex I want from her because, after all, she was a great lay, and she’ll accept it because she wants me in her life SOOOO badly. Now I just have to figure out how to do her without my new girl finding out.”
Even if he did truly regret our breakup and did want me back in his life, what would that mean for me? In other words, “What’s in it for me?” Even more so, to help me stop the “why her and not me’s,” what’s the new girl in for? Then, I go through my list:
1. The rollercoaster of never knowing when I would hear from him – it could be 10 times in one day or not at all for 4 or 5 days.
2. A relationship that takes place primarily via text with him sending texts (very often, sexual in nature) and me responding. If I try to initiate contact via phone or text, he may or may not answer.
3. A relationship in which my time, wants, desires, interests and needs were never considered. We would see each other when it is convenient for him without regard to whether it was convenient for me. We would only eat where he wants to eat. We would only go where he wants to go. He would never show any interest in my son, my job, my accomplishments, things I want to do.
4. I would be expected to fall on his every word, listening to his problems, his successes, his life – it will be all about him and never once would he ask anything about me.
5. I would have no certainty about plans until the last minute.
6. The knowledge that I would never the “the one,” but always one of many. I would have to accept and tolerate his female “friends,” never knowing whether he was sleeping with them or trying to sleep with them.
7. A possible sex addict and the knowledge that he frequents online sex sites, including casual sex sites and that indicates are he engages in very risky sexual behaviors which would then create the need for me to regularly be tested for STD’s.
8. Demeaning comments that are masked as teasing or overt, including being called a “whore” while having sex.
9. Never being allowed to question anything about the relationship, his feelings for me or his actions.
10. Only being “admitted” to certain parts of his life and totally and completely excluded from others to the point of not even knowing about them.
11. Someone who, over time, will not pay his fair share when we do things; especially, when we go on vacation.
12. Someone who wasn’t accepting of our educational and career differences or my successes/accomplishments.
13. A man who has great ideas and plans but doesn’t follow through on them.
14. Lies.
15. A bunch of odd quirks like his OC about organization, sleeping sideways on the bed between two sleeping bags instead of up and down between the sheets.
16. Immaturity and lack of professionalism.
17. A bad role model for my son.
18. A lonely relationship even when he is “in it.”
Jude,
I loved your comment,it seems that we were dating the same guy! I am so glad that I rid of my EUM, I dont even miss him and certanly I dont want him back…TIME to start a new chapter in my life:-)
Hello Judy
Almost everything on your list is my Ex EUM to a tea!
I actually took is mobile phone out of his pocket one night and took it downstairs and looked at the texts he had texts from an ex of 7 years ago to whom he has a child she replied in a very sexual nature. He obviously had wanted to go around for sex even after that I checked his phone and found another three womens names! He even checked his phone once when he was in bed with me and had a text off a woman called Hilary. I stupidly considered myself as his girlfriend as he was coming to mine after nights out for a period of three weeks in March. I now realise that this woman must have been wanting more from him so he was keeping her on ice and thus why he was using me and coming around mine instead. I stupidly thought that he enjoyed the sex with me and that I was more desirable to him!!!
I by a process of elimination found out who this woman was and outed him to her to which she said she would not text him anymore. He then cut me out completely and continued to pursue this other woman as he was not happy that I had busted his game!!! All via text messages I may add I even seen her texting him in a pub I was in!!! She must be a bit more malleable than me and easier to manipulate as I have had a year and half of this and she only 4 months. So he now daren’t ring or text me for fear of me showing her and ruining a potential shag. He is withheld calling me instead!!!! I had 6 calls last night alone! I can’t work out why he is doing this though??
I have to write a list of all the things he did that were red flags, put downs, stand up, not contacting me back, calling me names, you name it I have had the worst shit with this man.
However in my head I am still thinking ‘ why her and not me’??? Strange I somehow think that him withheld calling is his way of showing me he wants me when it isn’t it’s to keep me there should he need me.
I need to stop this VICIOUS cycle once and for all and just change me number.
Tha cat
Jude we were with the same man I’m sure (except I live abroad so maybe not). Your list is my relationship too.
I’m struggling to stop this though it’s not proving easy.Anyone who is like your list describes is a waste of time, we know this, walking away is really difficult though.
Well done for doing it. I’m slowly pulling back but it’s very bit by bit. I tried the ‘never speak again’ tactic but it was so artificial in the tiny community where we we both live that it just didn’t work.So now I avoid speaking to him as much as I can, I’d like my feelings to catch up with my head, seems to be taking forever but I’m sure it will get there.
Anyway thanks again for the list, unfortunately it is exactly how it is with an EUM.
sadthing’s last blog post..Is it love? Or is it fear, drama and pain?
sadthing & judy – look up narcissim. you will have an answer to your questions. my eum sounds just like yours. its creepy creepy stuff. mine just moved across the country to live with another woman – he professes not to love & wants to make sure if he gets lonely in a couple months can he call me. NARCISSIM – look it up. they can’t love & they cannot be faithful – there is NEVER enough attention. they are mentally ill. seriously – it might make you feel better. IT IS NOT YOU.
Hi Elizabeth, yes it’s narcissism alright and I think most EUM’s have is to some degree – well we all have a bit of it but not to the point where we really don’t/can’t care about how anyone else feels. That’s what true narcissists are like.
What’s interesting is why we are attracted to and then put up with this behaviour for far too long. I think that most of the posts on this blog are saying that they are what they are, we could spend the next decade trying to understand why they are like this (certainly I could) but it won’t make a blind bit of difference. The key is to look at ourselves and tackle whatever issues we may have.
Otherwise we’ll keep repeating the behaviour and/or going back to the ex.My problem is that I know what’s going on and still go back, without expectations and each time on a much reduced level,but I’m still reluctant to give him up completely for reasons that I still don’t fully understand. Anyway understanding is key to moving forward, so thanks to NML for this site.
sadthing’s last blog post..The No Contact Rule Web Seminars
sadthing – hi. i know what you are saying. with the help of a great therapist & reading incessantly about narcissim – i feel MUCH MUCH better. however, if he wouldn’t have moved 1,000 miles away – i am sure this would be much more difficult. i cry a lot & miss him very much. BUT, when i remember he is going to treat every woman this way it makes me feel better(selfish of me – but true). i still want him to call so i can ignore him – however, i bet i would pick up the phone. so…don’t beat yourself up. wishing you strength & peace.
Actually Jude can we add this one to your list?
Will always refer to and measure your ‘love’ for them by the amount of money you spend on them or gifts you give to them. Meanwhile they give or buy you almost nothing.
um…i have a question. he never gave me a card in a years time. did give me a christmas present. forgot valentines day – um…right. my question – he would hold my hand for about 30 seconds at a time – then let it go – this went on for the entire relationship.
Sadthing, you can add whatever you want to the list! In my instance, he didn’t measure my “love” because that NEVER came up with him – the “L” word, gosh no! Although, I will say with the exception of Christmas and the birthday present he gave my son ($25 gift card) the gifts he gave me were all freebies he took from his work and gave me – how romantic, huh? AND, the Christmas gift – a $200 VISA gift card. He also gave my son a $100 gift card. Why do I mention this? Because combine all the gift cards together and it equals $325. That is significant because he admires something I had and I told him if he was good, Santa might bring him one for Christmas. Guess how much it costs?????? $325! (Joke was on him, though, because I didn’t buy him one – spent MUCH less than that)!
Silenced Sister May 5th, 2009, 7:11 am
Well I have been reading this for sometime now and this site has helped me to get over the EUMM, I was with. It was a heady tumultuous relationship that lasted just over one year. I fell for him deep. It was disastorous for my mental health and overall sanity. I learned a lot about him as fate would have it but did it make me run the opposite direction? Noooooo I stayed and argued. He lied so much to me. He was/is a upright man seemingly religious man in the community who is always being awarded, yet he manages to make dirty calls to the homes of women in the middle of the night, and come 7am resume his normal routine. I am healing….so long as he leaves me alone and doesnt contact me. He cursed me out via text using some choice profanities, this was a day after telling me I was the best thing since sliced bread, told me to go where the sun doesnt shine, I replied in kind…but for the first time I didnt go home and bury myself in pity. Instead I continued my routine instead of letting him mess up my day. That’s when I knew he no longer held any power over me. By the end of the day and the following day he proceeded to blow my phone up as well as send texts. All of which I promptly ignored. I know now that he is a confused insecure little creep. And while I have flirted with the idea of revenge letting his wife know anonymoysly what a dangerous creep he is. However when I let the moment pass, I remind myself that vengance is not mine and time heals and sorts all things. I dont have the time to go into all the details here, but for those of us who know that we are more than we settled for, be encouraged, this too shall pass.
Be Blessed All.
5/24/09
I am re-posting this, because after four weeks of perfect NC, the exEUMM turned up at my job under the guise of stopping by to see someone else, I walked right by him. He proceeded to text, email and use guilt to make me believe I was being unrighteous by holding onto bitterness. Resolved in my being that this was and is the end, I ignored all appeals.
The following day or so I received flowers (they were lovely) from him. He had claimed in his emails that he wanted me to review something for him and was inviting me to hear him speak, up until the flowers I ignored him. I sent him a quick thank you for the flowers and told him I wouldnt be attending his event. That was it. Later on in the evening I slipped somewhat and sent a text saying how nice the flowers were…..but I held on. His response was to equate the flowers with me. I ignored the text, and went back to my NC.
He then proceeded to send a myriad of text messages blowing hot and cold, all of which I ignored. With each one ignored I became stronger in my resolve of no more BS etc etc etc. He began to push to the max by saying HE forgave me for all the things I had said or done to hurt him…. I held on even tighter. I couldnt believe when I saw him again at another venue I ignored him and went to my car. He texted, then called and then left vmail telling me how petty I was, but he still loved me. I got nervous but held on. I do not hate him not in the least and wanted to tell him that but I didn’t engage. It was no longer about him, I’m about saving myself. He said he hoped I got over whatever issues I was struggling with, his soul was free.
Then he texted to tell me how much he loved me and missed me so very much. The following day, he texted me about not understanding how much pain I was in, and offered to make amends, by suggesting we do all the things I like to do. I had to respond. I told him that far from it I was in no pain and was on my way to a wonderful evening out. He got crazy over the next 12 or so hours. I upped my reading of this site as I began to weaken and almost sent a text agreeing to meet up with him…but I remembered the old adage, been there done that. So finally after my ignoring his every possible plea knowing that he wasnt about really changing the staus quo, he sent me a text telling me he’s released me and he has exited me out of his life. A month or more ago I would have responded and begun to engage him, by now. I would have gotten upset, been crying and screaming and full of drama, as he knew my buttons. And all the texts about releasing, freeing me etc., would normally have gotten a response, for in the same text he was acknowledging that I had moved on, so I would have responded to the contradictions with my own version of the truth.
Recently he tried to push every button but I have remained strong. He has a wife and someone else anyway that is not even worth my going into, more power to all of them. As for me and my sanity, I cherish us and have learned to place me as number one.
So I say all of this to encourage the women who post here. When all is said and done it is not about the man it is about you. I have had to admit some hard truths about myself. Yes do I miss him, hell yes I do because when we got along it was awesome, I almost almost broke down and texted him that yesterday telling him that. But his ‘demons’ are much bigger than me, and as a song says, “I’m stronger, I’m wiser, I’m better, so much better,”, so I refrained from getting caught up in the emotions which equates with drama, and kept still. I know that in stillness much wisdom is learned and gained.
I have some committment issues, and self esteem ones also, so he was an ego boost, but as so many women on this site have attested to, the attention given to women by these men is self serving it’s for them, about them and NEVER about you. You are merely a player in their play of life, and your role changes based on their need for attention.
I am now so not concerned with his issues, but am on the road to healing me, for God knows I too was not well. I dont have all the answers, but I do know that if we want it bad enough, be it the detachment, the breakup, no more drama, the healthy relationship, whatever it is, then what we desire and believe will manifest. Where I am today, I envisioned a long time ago, it took me stumbling and falling, getting up, tryin to be strong, breaking down, feeling I was losing my mind, happy he was noticing me, giving me the crumbs of his attention, hating myself for being so weak, begging him to talk to me, listening to him tell me that he was/is a man on a mission and to be with him is difficult and could I hang; of course I had to prove I was able to hang alright by becoming almost suicidal (LOL). Crying my heart heart out when he nonchalantly would look at me and laugh at my efforts to seduce him, tell me I didnt have what it takes. Being cold towards me, rejecting me, ordering me around as if I were his slave; I could go on; but my joy is in knowing that I have redeemed myself, so when he tells me he misses making love to me or whatever crap he chooses to say, I smile and delete.
But you know the red flags were there (they always are). When we first began talking he told me how he had thrown (told her to get out) a woman he was having an affair with, out of his car in the middle of the night and had her walk home because she had upset him, and he wanted to break it off with her so if he acted badly enough she would eventually leave, hence his actions. I was appalled but not appalled enough clearly, for of course the fact that he was talking about how bad he felt about what he had done meant that such actions were in the past. I have since learnt that the same mindset that allowed him to do that to her, came from the same place that allowed him to curse me out call me all kind of derogatory names, mean and ugly ways he acted towards me etc., in an attempt to “push me away”.
I read a long time ago that “People will always show and tell you who they are. And when they do BELIEVE them” – Iyanla Vanzant.
I hope this helps and encourages someone. Stay strong, this too shall pass.
Be Blessed
Well, thank you for all your posts. It really helps.
I have been there, of course, twice. Involved with the Unavailable men. I wonder if we are the one that attracts these people or they are all the same and there’s not hope for us. This particular time, different man, and 7 years later, I saw the signs with in three weeks into the relationship and I broke it off. Trust me, the chemistry was intense, very hard thing to do, after all these years of not getting any love or luv from anyone, so I feel very proud,…. but I did send him an e mail today, very nice, very polite, not needy, but telling him in few words I would have love to continue seeing him. Which he probably will not answer to it, I am hoping, but if he does, if for any reason I would go back there, trust me, he will not hurt me. I learned how difficult is for a heart to heal and your mind to be funtionable again.. I feel I am capable of being just as aloof as they are or more, so in a way, I wish he will call.
In any case, ladies, we have to be so very careful out there, and I am thinking, the only way to stop this madness it is to be going back to our grand mother’s time, where they will not get a piece of us, until they put a ring in our fingers, sing the document and of course, not prenuptial.
In a lighter note, I wonder what sign of the zodiac these men are, were.I know which ones were my guys, but I am afraid we may not be allow to talk about that in this blog.
Take care, and please stay away from people that do not love us. Only if, you have the same kind of ammunition they posses, even if is just imaginary, because that is the only thing they understand.
Before I go to bed, if you ladies find out if we can publish the zodiac sign of these men, let’s do it, maybe we are into something…
Also, remember, solitude for few years, or for a little while, is very good for you. I did it and I have learned a lot about myself and others.
Take care.
I was wondering,why the EUM usualy turn things sexualy? Like for example my ex would text me just about sex subjects,I dont understand why he couldnt use it for sweet things or to talk about our days for example.It seems that to them love is equal sex.
i think I am really over my EUM this time. Lately we have had some contact (he asked me to go on vacation with him, its somewhere in the posts above). It was all pretty civil and he soon got the message that I didn´t accept sextalk any more. Now he is behaving very “normal”. Interested in me, contacting me during the day instead of at night, not hinting at sex anymore. But I don´t care anymore. He texted me a couple of days ago asking me how a meeting went and I haven´t responded yet and I feel no inclination to do so. Even if he magically turned available (which I don´t believe!) I wouldn´t want him. And that is because I heard this ABC theory from a friend:
A good relationship has 3 components:
A. Affection (chemistry, physical compatibility, cuddling, holding hands in publicetc.)
B. Babble (talking, having fun, able to laugh together, discuss, not get bored with eachother mentally etc.)
C. Caring (commitment, be considerate of eachother, call when you get home late, cook when you´re partner is tired from work etc.)
And I realized that all I really had with my EUM was a very high level of A , a lot less of B and no C. Even if we could manage a lot of C we still wouldn´t have enough B. So this made it pretty clear for me. Hope it can help some of you.
Btw. He is gemini
Anusha~ I have often wondered the same thing. My EUM did this too, even sent me pictures of his privates it was weird. He never texted me to see how I was doing or that he was thinking of me. Well, I guess to some degree he was thinking about me when he sent me those illicit text messages – but not in the way I would have preferred. It was a game and I got horribly taken for a time and then stopped.
I just think it’s because everything revolves around them, our feelings do not matter. So whatever it takes to please themselves they’ll use and subject anyone to get whatever it is they want. If we aren’t on solid ground ourselves, we get sucked into their games and end up getting hurt and feel used and then disguarded like an old newspaper thrown to the trash.
All I know is I’ve been NC for 8 months and there have been hard days, and I felt miserable. But nothing, and I mean nothing made me feel more miserable than craving his attention, getting his attention and then sinking lower than I was before he contacted me. I remember that feeling and do not, will not go back there. He still comes into my thoughts every day, but not like he used to and now I just discard the thought, and keeping moving on.
What he did and said to me is inexcusable. I’ll never forget that, but I can keep moving on, healing, etc and that’s good for me.
Anusha, not meant to be blunt but maybe hejust wants sex..
Betterwithouthim,good you are moving on
That is the best we can do for us.That is strange right? My ex EUM was like that too,is like sex is the most important thing to them.I realy can relate when you said you would prefer other kind of texts.I would get all kind of sex related texts when I would prefer much more getting a text asking how Im or a sweet one saying he was thinking about me or anything sweet.I guess you are right,probably because is all about them.
betteroff withouthim. you couldn’t have said it better – the craving the attention then getting it then sinking lower than low. i have NC for 11 days – it is very difficult. i would always get some stupid text or see him at last every day or so. of course, he has moved 1000 miles aways to live with another woman(although he says temporary) anyway…..reading that today reminded me – you are absolutely right. what clods!
Other thing I noticed about EUM is that they are almost never avaliable but expect us to be always avaliable for them.Like my ex EUM would take 3 weeks to email me but expect me to email him back in a few days and if I didnt he would be texting or emailing me asking if I had got his email.He wants somebody that is avaliable for him when he fells like being in touch.And if I chase him he just ignore me.And if he doesnt fell like talking to me for 2 weeks that is normal acording to him and I shouldnt complain.Just sit around and wait until he contacts me when he fells like and dont try to contact him when I fell like talking to him.
Truthhurts~Thanks for the ABC’s I liked that!
Also, I found that when you become “indifferent” to them it is in some ways how they were towards us. At least that’s what I think was happening.
It was like the whole time I was with my EUM he was indifferent. It didn’t matter if I texted, emailed or called he usually could have cared less, and then he chose whether or not to respond. And most times he did respond but was evasive, vague or making sure I wouldn’t take things the wrong way type situation.
Once I became indifferent to him, didn’t return text messages, phone calls or emails. Or responded to him with a single word, he seemed to pick up pace and start blowing luke warm but eventually I stopped texting altogether, then stopped emailing and never called and he would drop an email and I just responded with one or two words. But only if he asked a question. If he just made a comment like “have a good weekend” I never responded. He then began to inquire if I was getting his emails or not – so I responded “yes”.
I hope the best for you, and that you can just keep ignoring him and staying NC like I did. It saved my life and my sanity!
Anusha,
It feels like we were dating the same man! I had NC for almost ten days and was feeling “normal” again…but few days ago my EUM contacted me and instead of saying “NO” or ignore him, I answered his text! What is wrong with me??? He started with sexy texts and I texted him back saying: Dont treat me like a Call Girl, please have some respect”…and I was surprised that he actually said “Sorry”, he thought I was enjoying his sex-natured messages…Third day now, only decent messages, no more mentioning sex….I wonder how long it will last?
Anusha,
Love means different things to different people and in different relationships. What a mother feels for a child, or an infant for a parent or sibling, is not what cousins feel for each other (keep it clean!). When we went on our first date, we likely couldn’t tell “love” from the rest of the jitters and fears and hopes and curiousity ..
For a partner in a long term relationship, love should be a combination of social skills (ABC’s, etc.), feelings, respect, compassion, etc.
If you take a perpetual dater, someone with no clue to anything other than an endless series of sexual encounters, it is no wonder that sex pretty much is the complete and entire definition of what they think a relationship is. They may see compassion and respect around them, but it doesn’t “click” that they shoudl be involved in that kind of interaction.
If you think of a “relationship” as being an emotional and sexual social enterprise – then figure out that one partner is Emotionally Unavailable, that pretty much leaves sex to describe his relationship.
It isn’t you, or anything you have done. He literally doesn’t know how to involve anything but sex in the relationship. You just happened to pick him for fun, or for his “potential”, or because his social role seemed familiar. And you didn’t pick up on how he wasn’t interested in a shared home, or an emotionally rich relationship.
Besides, any guy that texts more than he talks with you face to face – is keeping you away from him because he just *doesn’t* need closeness. Just the sex.
Brad K.’s last blog post..Kwai Chang Cain couldn’t have said it better
Thanks Brad
I just dont get why we just can text about that.He said on his email that he missed the texts,I said “we still can do it,who said they can be just about sex? we can use them to talk about other things too”.Wich he didnt respond.And why the contact had to get less or stop just because I cuted the sex? People that realy love each other like to be around each other even when there is no sex.They like to know how each other is doing and be on that persons company.Like I said love isnt all about sex.
Just to add,when I asked him if he was over me yet he said “No if I was I wouldnt be having those kind of texts(sex ones) with you”.What shows to me that he sees love as sex.I think to know if you are in love for somebody it should take more than just being sexualy interested on that person.I think to him is like sexualy interested= love.But love is way more than that.
Reading these comments I very idly wondered if some of the men you are complaining about (esp the ones using the internet) are the SAME guy and the same one I was with! LOL – like so many other women coming here before me the lightbulbs are flashing up in recognition. Looking back, I remember him saying “all my friends have wondered where I have been cos I spend so much time with you” (which admittedly he did for a while). I took that as friends, clearly with what happened eventually this was a narcissistic harem. Lucky for me, I am not joining their ranks (in a real harem at least the girls had company and fun with each other!). Thank you thank you thank you!
i am a man, and i believe in your site, its sounds helpfull for women in the struggle against oppressive men or assclowns. but im looking for something to help me. i had the epiphany, and i want to change, but im doing very well. my girlfriend does come back to me when the relationship has’nt changed. but that does’nt mean i am not trying. i believe i can be more cosiderate, more honest, more responsible for my poor actions.but it’s difficult to change this lifetime of bad habbits. i dont want her to leave me and your blog suggests to me that she should. we want to be together, but i just can’t see myself or change so easily. help!? please.
Karl, bless your heart for recognizing things that you would like to change. I just finished a book on communication which boiled down to: Men need to feel like their women respect them. Women need to feel like their men love them. If/when I get into another relationship, I will give this a try! I also believe that communication is key, and that rubber-banding and caving is totally detrimental to the dating/being together process. I know that most men don’t like to talk as much as do women about joint issues of mutual concern, but I truly believe that this skill is pivotal in maintaining equilibrium in a good relationship.But, then again, I am posting and reading everyone else’s heartache on here, so what do I know!?!?!?!?But seriously…best of luck to you and your G/F.
Karl,
If you only recognized how painful your actions are. I can honestly say that the relationship with my ex (push/pull, indecision, selfishness, excuses, lies and overall nonsense) was the most difficult thing I have ever experienced. Very destructive!
The reason the girlfriend is returning is due to low self-esteem, otherwise why would she continue to return to the same situation.
If you really loved your girlfriend and yourself you would seek professional help “to change this lifetime of bad habits.” It’s up to you, no more excuses.
Hi Karl,
Yeah, I would recommend seeking professional help also, for you and your GF.
I think that just being aware of your inclinations and your (gasp) feelings and communicating them can help tremendously. If you feel like pulling away, or being abusive, notice it, and let your girlfriend know. Also, let her know you love her and the relationship is important.
It could mean that you have to let each other go, at least for a while, until you both feel ready and ABLE to be in with both feet – and the rest of your bodies/hearts.
Karl,
Seth Godin is a marketing type. Many of his observations and insights apply to other areas of life, perhaps better than to marketing. One such insight is about being “trainable”. I didn’t see Seth’s original article, but look at this one, describing what “not trainable” means to a sales force. Then consider what the impact is in a relationship.
http://www.omghub.com/salesdevelopmentblog/tabid/5809/bid/277/The-Meaning-of-Not-Trainable.aspx
The basic problem with a a relationship that brings someone to Baggage Reclaim, is usually that a woman is insecure, or inexperienced and lacks good support. She chooses to spend time with a man that lacks certain qualities needed for a family – an interest in being a mate and co-parent, not just a perpetual dater. What I call a perpetual dater is someone that doesn’t understand that the reason for getting together with someone is to build a shared life, not just the casual social recreation that beer and fashion ads purvey. A perpetual dater has no interest in a relationship that builds a home that nurtures everyone. A perpetual dater is satisfied with continued social recreation.
Recognizing that you are being a problem in the relationship is part of what is going on. Another part is – she picked someone that hasn’t been working toward a shared, mated life. And she is still with you. This says that she hasn’t yet chosen to be with someone ready to build a life based on respect, honor, honesty, discipline (the will to complete a task), compassion, and trust.
I consider a home to be the smallest cultural unit. The values, the expectations of “right” actions, the traditions and policies are unique, and define how the home interacts with the larger family structure, with the community, and in society. Selecting a partner with compatible values, with existing healthy bonds to their own families and friends, is a great start. Because otherwise you have to question everything. In the home what counts are the agreed priorities, the agreed values, the agreed traditions and agreed expectations.
As we grow we find that certain activities aren’t good for us, make our perceptions, values, how we speak harmful or hurtful to those we respect and cherish. We have to be alert an avoid such issues. Sometimes that means giving up an activity – or an association with some person or persons. If you want to respect your partner, you cannot spend time with people that don’t act respectfully to others. It isn’t so much that we are known by the company we keep, as that we are often defined by who we spend time with.
As you struggle, consider whether your intent is to be a mate to your partner, or to have less strife in your social recreation. If the lady in your life wants the security and comfort of a home, if you want a partner to respect and that trusts and respects you for what you do (words get forgotten, and are never as loud as simple actions), then you should be able to work out a way to get from here to there.
Perhaps the biggest challenge you face is that change is chaotic. You are talking about both of you changing in fundamental ways, of changes in your relationship, in how you view yourselves as people and as partners. No one can predict what change will accomplish. It is probably more likely that one or both of you will find that living a respectful and honorable life means you need a different partner. As you face the days and months ahead, you will have to consider, time after time, about what you are willing to accept and what is unhealthy for you. She will be making those same kinds of decisions. I expect counseling can be a big help, if you can find someone sympathetic and hopeful to help you understand those choices as they arise. Be aware that some counselors can be already set to see someone as the victim and the other as the problem. I see the larger issue, is that you each chose to be with an partner ill-suited to function well in a shared, mated life.
The comfort and familiarity of knowing each other can be a big factor in learning to build a home based on respect, honesty, compassion, and honor. I would guess that you are each lacking in good role models of how to build a “happy home” and be good for each other. Various communities, including some (not all!) churches can be good resources, places to find friends, advice, and examples of people living a fruitful and reasonably happy shared life. I don’t think that you can bring this all about by yourselves. You can read books and web pages, but which will apply to you and to your lady is impossible to say – most will only vaguely apply in a few places.
You cannot be the man that a good woman needs without male friends. You have to have good emotional bonds to your best friends – that is, you can converse on personal and meaningful matters, trust each other for honest answers, and usually it means that no alcohol (or only rarely) is involved in the friendship. She has to have good friends. And if you want to live a coupled life – I figure most of your friends should be well-coupled, not single or especially not “players” or living from sex adventure to sex adventure.
I wish you well, Karl. Blessed be.
Brad K.’s last blog post..The family, the child, and the culture of the home
Ladies,
All I can say is that I wished I had found this website years ago. I stayed in a very bad marriage because “I loved him.” Yeah, right. To be honest, I think I just did not love myself enough. Exes are exes for a reason, and the reason will not magically disappear. You see, even as a child, I never believed in fairy tales, and I am too old to start. But for me, I believed that it was going to get better, it had to have been something that I did wrong (yeah, it’s called putting up with his junk), if I just loved him enough, everything will get better. Believe it or not, before I finally had enough to get out, he had the nerve to tell me that he felt that I did not love him anymore because I no longer put up with his bad behavior. I told him that if what he wanted to marry or be with was a puppet, then he needed to find one, but I did not have ANY man’s brand on my hip. No matter how hard I tried to make things work, it just got worse. And the reason it got worse is because you need TWO people in a successful relationship.
I’m lucky with this one – I never, ever, ever want to get back with any of the the ex Ns or EUs; never have and never will.
What I need to learn is how to stop going out with what is essentially the same bloke in different bodies
Do they “spirit hop”? ^-^
This type of man is horrible and so disruptive and ultimately destructive. It’s the first time I’ve discovered anything about this kind of pattern and where it emanates from – me- and I’m determined to halt it and turn things around. I will never get with the past ones ever again, believe me; but I don’t want to get with the future ones either.
Best Regards, Leonine.
Its fairly common for a bit of rebounding right after a breakup.
Its such a shock to the system, when you go from being two people in a third entity which is that relationship to going back to being one person.
That is very hard to deal with and you need a strong group of friends and family to support you through this.
This is also your weakest point where you begin to doubt yourself. Did you really do the right thing? You totally FORGET all the bad things that made you want to break up with him in the first place.
You start listening to your head and not following your heart. You let your emotions run wild and look for temporary relief rather than long term benefit.
You think things will work out just fine. You know I would say … hell have that rebound and get back with him.
It won’t take that long to realise that things are really not the same. That u can have him back … and now you really DON”T want him.
It took be one rebound day to realize that and when I finally made the decision to make that CLEAN break, i have not felt more free, more liberated and more trusting in myself.
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i believed the oodles of promises and wanted so much for him to be sorry. after a long breakup i went back and convinced myself he had changed. he seemed like such a different person, but he harbored the same problems and hurt me all over again. we lasted 3 mos and his insecurity & emotional unavailibity broke us up. like NML said if the reason you broke up is still there it is not going to work. one day he just shut me out, no contact. all i got was an email that said he felt something had changed. he quickly took control of the situation and wouldn’t allow me to voice my feelings or make him feel bad for his actions. resorting to text & emails only. eum/ac are not normal and trying to have a normal relationship with them is futile. i hate myself b/c i still care 4 him, but no matter how hard i hurt…i won’t let him do this to me again. this article is so true. there’s a reason you broke up in the 1st place and if that hasn’t changed, fuhggetaboutit.
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