There are variations of this common question being asked around this site. The common scenarios are:
You’ve broken up with him and now he’s dating someone else and they look so happy together.
He said he didn’t want to be in a relationship and now he’s flaunting his latest.
He said he wasn’t going to choose you over his wife/girlfriend and now he’s got a replacement Other Woman.
He said he didn’t want to get married and now he’s engaged or married.
He said he wouldn’t leave his wife and now he has…for a different girl.
How come he’s so happy with her? It must be my fault the relationship didn’t work.
Why her and not me? Why, why, why, why, WHY?
The fact that you’re asking this says that you still want him even though he’s demonstrated that he doesn’t see the value in you or being with you, that you’re obsessing about him and the relationship, and that you don’t want to move on because often when we ask these questions, they are with regard to men who probably aren’t worthy of our time.
Now, I’m not going to say that it’s not a question that doesn’t run through many a person’s mind but when it becomes damn near an obsession and it prevents you from letting go and focusing on yourself, something is very wrong.
If you are obsessing about the relationship, him, the who, what, why’s and when’s, the shoulda, woulda, couldas, and the can’t, won’t, don’ts, you are either in standstill or regressing into the past because obsessing is about looking for reasons to blame yourself and trying to reason out things that there aren’t necessarily answers for.
And here is the kicker:
Him choosing to do something after the relationship with you has ended is not about you; it’s about him.
You are putting yourself at the centre of his decision to be with someone else or his actions after you. In reality, that’s giving yourself too much credit for impact, and him too much credit for actually having that much connection to his thoughts!
It’s not about you. It’s about him.
It’s not about her because you are two different people and the likelihood is that if he was f*cked up when you were with him and he’s taken up with someone else, he hasn’t changed which means that there is something about the relationship with her that let’s him believe that he can continue being himself.
You also need to remember that with men who habitually mess women around, they ALWAYS blow hot at first which means that when you are losing your mind obsessing over him, he’s going through the same hot phase that he treated YOU to at the beginning. But eventually, lukewarm or downright cold kicks in.
Again because it is about him, just like when we kneejerk our way into dating and quickly start dating another guy or choose an opposite and end up with a ‘nice guy’ that we eventually admit bores us or we claim is ‘too nice’, men do exactly the same thing too because they have their own insecurities.
Especially when it comes to assclowns and habitually emotionally unavailable men, they need attention in the form of ego stroking, a convenient shag, and a smokescreen that let’s themselves believe that they are not the assclown that they actually are.
Some need to prove they’ve still got ‘it’, some are afraid to look in the mirror and see themselves for what they are, some are afraid of what it means to have another ‘failed’ relationship, and some just like having someone there.
A new woman that’s not wisened up to his him yet is fresh meat but eventually, when she expects too much or sees through him, he’ll be revealing his usual self.
What about men that leave you and meet someone else that they end up marrying/getting engaged to/ or essentially doing more than they did with you?
This is why I keep telling women to stop trying to raise men from the ground up and change them because the overwhelming likelihood is that it’s the NEXT woman that profits from your rennovation whilst you sit there in negative equity!
There is no ‘logic’ to why these men do what they do but one thing that is at the heart of it is that if you are a woman that accepts poor behaviour from a man because she thinks it shows how much she loves him and how willing she is to make the relationship work, you only get penalised for it because the types of men that behave in this manner and watch you accept it recognise that you can’t respect or love yourself enough if you put up with their behaviour. On some level they realise that if you want them, something can’t be right.
Often with the next woman, she won’t put up with the same crap so he tries much harder. That’s not to say that he won’t revert to himself at a different juncture but right now (and you know that most of these men don’t think too far ahead), she seems ‘different’.
It’s as simple as this. If you met an attached guy and stood by his side whilst he went home to his wife, he’d mark you down for it. If you met an attached guy who when he disclosed the fact that he was in a relationship, you told him to take a run and jump and kept telling him to go and to come back when he’s got his house in order, he’d actually have greater respect for you.
Not every woman puts up with poor behaviour from men. They recognise red flags, have clear boundaries and know when to opt out because they recognise that these men are no good. These are the ones that these foolish men will pursue and often lose their minds over. If you’re a Fallback Girl, they’ll slink back to you in between…
But ultimately, there is no absolute answer to the question of ‘Why her and not me?’ What I do know is that there is absolutely nothing to be gained by it and obsessing about it represents yet another avoidance tactic where instead of taking the focus off him and bringing it back to you, you instead look for reasons to stay emotionally invested in the situation even when he’s gone.
What is there to be gained by knowing why he’s with her? The fact that he’s moved on shows that YOU should move on pronto, not be putting your life on hold to obsess about him and the new relationship.
Even if you sat there and analysed every conversation, action, flick of the hair, and slip of the tongue over your entire relationship, it’s a waste of your time that will never give you all the answers.
You’re not seeing the wood for the trees. Instead of asking ‘Why her and not me?’, you should be asking ‘What is it about my relationship habits that had me in this relationship?’ or ‘Why am I pining for someone who doesn’t want, love, or respect me?’
Look at the bigger picture and see beyond him and the new relationship and focus on washing him out of your mind and life, and ensuring that you don’t fall into the same traps. He’s her problem now, NOT yours.
Your thoughts?
My new book How to Lose an Assclown in 90 Days is due out soon but if you want to get ahead on understanding your relationship struggles, especially with emotionally unavailable men, there is also my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.
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Used,
Thank you for your 8:22 blog. I really wish I knew how to not let this ahole keep getting under my skin. I really have felt powerless, he started it, he “managed” the course of the relationship, and he ended. (That is not to say I had no part in it, but he started it, I made the mistake of letting myself get involved) I want to know and learn how to choose to stop thinking of him or to keep myself from looking down to see if he is home.
The only reason I have hoped for contact from him at this point is for an apology, not to get back together. I know I could never trust him, and I want to have a life with my husband. My issue has mostly been that I didn’t have any closure. He said he loved me one day, then stopped talking to me and cut me off the next, with no explanation, no “kiss off”, no “I dont’ love you anymore”, no good bye, nothing. I was extremely devastated by that and left with many questions about myself, my judgement, him, how he feels, etc. I have been thinking that if he could at least “acknowledge I am still alive” I would be able to understand his actions and be able to move on. I lack the closure that I need to move on.
Believe me, my eyes are wide open, and I plan on avoiding him, as I have been. I am better for it every day. I know he is a jerk. I have to physically see him with Other Woman when his wife isn’t home. My mind knows this, my heart is still having trouble with it. That is why I am here.
I am very lucky to have a wonderful husband and family, and I am sorry your husband had job issues for 2 years. I know that choices we make are serious and affect not only ourselves, but those around us. Believe me, I know.
This website isn’t about taking sides, man vs. woman. It is about helping women overcome issues. I have never asked anyone to take sides. Just curious, are you blogging on this site because you are having EUM issues? If so, I am not sure what they are other than you dated an EUM prior to your current marriage. Sounds like your marriage is pretty good and you have avoided all EUM’s since. Or are you just on the site as a contributor, not with an “issue” like the rest of us, trying to steer us in the right direction, just curious.
Having taken most of the advice given on this website from the wonderful bloggers that have responded to my blogs, I want to be sure I am doing the right thing here. Since you all know my EUM lives 2 doors down, I can’t go to the mailbox or water my flowers without the chance of seeing him. I have, as previously stated, had difficulty not “looking toward his house” to see if he is out (I can look down there, but he can’t see me doing it with the way our houses are laid out). I am working on this and trying to keep myself from even seeing if he is or isn’t there. I also see him and his Other Woman going back and forth to each other’s homes on a regular basis, even when their spouses are home. As you can imagine, this has caused me much turmoil on top of the issues EUM and I had. Nevertheless, I am working on not letting this upset me. I cannot become a recluse because he is an ass.
Well the last few days up at the school and out in my yard, I have noticed ( and what I mean is that I never let him see me looking at him, I totally “ignore” him), but I can see out of the corner of my eye, I have noticed that he has really been “looking for me” outside and staring at me when I am outside. For instance, when we were together, we used to water our yards at the same time, so we could just see each other. Corny I know. Well, I avoid watering when he is watering so he doesn’t think I am trying to “relive” our time together. But when I am out, minding my own business, like today, riding my bike with my child because it is now officially summer and school is out, he sat there and constantly stared at me, almost like “waiting” for me to acknowledge him, which I didn’t. I saw him staring at me each and every time we rode by, or when a friend stopped by to talk to me, he literally got up out of his chair to see what I was doing, etc. I am ignoring him! I feel that this is the right thing to do considering how he did me, because I am holding my head high and carrying on with my life, doing normal things with my family, but his “staring” has escalated over the last few days and it disrupts me all day trying to analyze his behavior.
There again, I know I sound like a broken record, but if he is the one that broke it off, why is he staring? Has anyone ever experienced this before? It is like you want to choke them. If you don’t want me, then leave me completely alone. Why would he take time to stare and watch me if he doesn’t care? This is what I can’t get through my head.. I am so frustrated. The other woman he is seeing across the street from me is regularly out and visits him and he visits her, and he sits where he can see her easily to and I am sure he stares at her too. This is what keeps me upset on a daily basis. Does he hate me? Is he just looking at me for eye candy? Does he miss me? Does he loathe me? Is he just bored? Is he trying to continue disrupting my life because he is an asshole and it is fun? There are times I am not even looking at him, and I turn around to walk somewhere and he is staring. But no contact for 4 months. So, to me that means he doesn’t want me or want to contact me, he just doesn’t mind watching me. I may have just answered my own question, but I would appreciate anyone’s feedback. (And NO, I am not saying I want him back or that I am purposely trying to engulf myself in more drama), just want some feedback on how others have handled it or better yet someone whose EUM has discussed why they did this and what it meant. Thanks.
Surely someone has been in this situation and has even gotten back with the person who did this and talked to them to find out why they are giving their attention to you when they don’t “want” you. This may be a no brainer question, but if anyone has feedback on what their EUM said was their reason, I would appreciate knowing it.
To clarify, I wanted to make sure I am doing the right thing by ignoring him even though he is staring like he wants something out of me. Also is it best in situations such as mine where he was terrible to me and said he loved me one day, then cut me off cold turkey without as much as an explanation the next day to completely avoid him and him seeing me as much as possible or is it best to let or get him to see me as much as possible to show him that I have “moved on” and that my life is “just fine” without him, see me out, doing things, having a good time, laughing, etc. I wondered what the best course of action is to show him that I still have some dignity left even after he treated me so terribly. Since the breakup, having him see me “happy” and living my life without him has been my main focal point to preserve what dignity I had left, sort of like salvaging what is left of my self-esteem and holding my head high. Something I have been doing for me to make me feel better about myself, but with that comes his stares and shit, which also make me feel bad, so I am damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
Miserable
lord have mercy, I am trying to imagine myself in your shoes.
I know that I would get the hell out of the neighborhood as much as possible every day. Of curse this will not seem fair, it is your home and all. But life is not fair sometimes and you have the misfortune of having made a bad decision to get involved with someone who turned out to be an exceptionally troubled person.
I’d take my kids hiking, camping, biking. Maybe get them in camps or classes. The do a part time job, any job, volunteer would be fine. I’d join a health club, go to church even if I was not religious, anything just to get out of the house.
I’d visit friends. take the kids to see relatives ANYTHING to break the nutty addictive cycle of thinking, wondering, looking for closure that you cannot get, ( closure requires maturity and self awareness that he does not have) and giving a fig about the very unworthy guy who is NOT capable of being the love of anyone’s life.
He is a walking disaster, plain and simple. Whoever wrote that he is all dopey unattainable high school drama was correct, ugh. This drama resonates with all of us who have been involved with an EUM, there is a juvenile component in them, and it seems to often bring out juvenile behavior in us too.
The big thing here is that you are a mom and a wife. And the obcession and seeking closure from the ” has been”, AKA The Big Mistake, is not healthy. It is keeping you from being a truly emotionally involved mom and wife. Not to mention filling your own head and dreams with confusion and pain instead of clarity and peace.
If in your shoes, I for sure would be in counseling, I found counseling necessary in dealing with the abandonment of the EUM I know, and my story is way less complicated than yours.
Recovery is not be easy. I think that the hardest words you have been given here are correct; at present you are addicted to the drama. All of us here understand the drama at different levels, but the first thing you have to do is break the addiction to the drama.
When talking recovery from addiction and trauma, I have learned not to expect a quick fix. It took me weeks to break the addiction and I have the luxury of zero contact. Once the addiction was over, then reality and sadness and regret set it. It’s been a few months, it gets better slowly, but you have yet to really begin.
IN your case NC is not about physical contact. Looking at him, not looking at him, seeing if he is looking, wondering why he is looking… his ignoring you, your ignoring him….these are all odd sneaky versions of contact for you two.
Your situation is so difficult because he is right there. Eventually you will learn how to deal with him while seeing him, but I would be thinking of ways to break the addiction by removing yourself from the situation as much as possible.
These are painful things that you probably must go through. Today is as good a time to start as any. In my town, very few moms are home during the day, many have jobs, many are out and about doing things. In your situation I’d change your lifestyle to get away from that house as much as possible.
Truly, my words are not meant to be hurtful, though they may sound harsh. I wish you and your family good love, the fruits of the hard and necessary work you now must do, and good luck.
Miserable Love, I highly recommend that you read NML’s book,
“Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl” and try to read all her posts on this issue as well, it will answer a lot of questions for you.
There is no magic pill for your situation and there will be not one blogger with the magic answer for you.
Take the focus of of him and put it on you and your family.
What I can tell you from your posts: this man is not looking for the next wife, he is looking for some “fun” on the side – and if he can also get money from these women, he got everything he wanted.
Geez, he can’t even support himself (that is what the wife is doing), what do you want from him? Having an affair with him forever?
Why are you worried about the other woman? What will he do to her?
Same as he did to you and the next and the next and…
This man has a hidden agenda and guess what, it works for him!
You are avoiding taking responsibility for your life, your husband and your kids. You are so consumed with this loser and I promise you that your kids pick up on your mood and this will affect them.
I am sure your husband is picking up on your mood and is asking if anything is wrong.
The best course of action would be to be in NC with him, period.
He doesn’t hate you, why would he hate you? He doesn’t care enough to hate or love.
Him staring at you – don’t delude yourself – maybe he is worried that you know about the other woman and he is afraid that somebody will clue in his wife!! Maybe he is afraid you will walk up to him and confront him? He can’t have that, you causing a scene?
He feels somewhat “safe” because you are married too and he knows you would not jepordaize that!
Don’t be so defensive with people, you posted 5 times between 11 AM and 1PM, what do you expect? You can shoot me down – I promise you that my skin is thicker than yours and I want you to “hear” what people say to you and start thinking about it.
Because when people don’t agree with you doesn’t make them wrong.
Healing and moving on, you have to do that for yourself, nobody else can do that.
Why not tell yourself, O.K., this a@@hole played me, got some attention, some s@x and money from me and move on, be done!!
Waiting for him to apologize? He is a piece of sh@t and would never do that unless he wants something from you again – and you know what that would be.
aphrogirl,
Thanks for your feedback. Yes I did make a BAD decision for sure. And I do stay busy and am not home all day. I work full-time, am a business owner, and work primarily from home, but have two offices that I go, as well as testify in Courts, so thankfully I have my work outside of my home. My kids social schedules keep me busy, taking care of elderly parents, and church is an important part of my life, as well as I have played the flute for 28 years and enjoy that as well.
I have felt that assclown has just been withholding what I need for closure, and it really helps what you said that he doesn’t have the capability to provide closure. He is a walking disaster! That is the truth. HA! I am working on making myself better and healing, so that I can be what I need to be for my family. I have done a wonderful juggling act for sure, no fun. You are absolutely right, that is why I was so glad to find this website.
What do you mean when you say addicted to the drama? Do you mean because I am exposed to EUM on a daily basis and keep “seeing him”, I am keeping my feelings at the surface which is delaying the healing process?
So your advice is to remove myself from his presence as much as possible and forego “putting myself out there” so he can see how “happy” I am without him, etc. Because in doing that for the purpose of saving my dignity, I am still harming myself and it is preventing me from moving on.??
You weren’t harsh or hurtful, I appreciate it and your insight and your time.
Hi Miserable love, I have been reading this whole discussion for a while and I thought i´d just throw my 2 cents in if you don´t mind. A lot of comments have been about you still putting yourself in the drama.
You ask: What do you mean when you say addicted to the drama?
I think it means that you are still very focused on him and whatever there was between you two. You are not in physical contact with him, which is hard enough seeing your living situation so I applaud you for that! But in your head you are wondering why he is staring, what is he feeling, what is he thinking, asking why why why…
Very understandable and we have all been there, but there comes a point where you have to accept things how they are and try to let go. Try to stop your thoughts about why he is staring and start to ignore him in your head as well as physical. If you don´t you will still be in turmoil and in some kind of relationship with him. Only this time solely in your mind.
He stares because out of all that you have written I dare to conclude that he is emotionally not sound. He very likely doesn´t know why he does it himself. He sounds like a creap to be honest and if it really bugs you that a creap is staring at you from across the road then send the police on him. But see it for what it is.
Good luck!
Miserable Love,
Please feel free to email me so we can talk. I wish I had the strength to to the NC for 4 months like you. I think I did well with 2 DAYS! There is so much going on right now with Joe and myself my head is spinning. I beleive that the words that people are saying, may sound harsh, but I am beginning to learn that may be what we all need to hear. I know I do! These men are master manipulators. They know our weekness (them). And they will use it anyway they can. Him staring at you…he has to know that it bothers you. Joe calling or texting me…he knows it will get to me. Hot and cold! Everyone on here has a different story with different twists and turns, but we all have the common goal which is to heal OURSELVES, so that we do not repeat the same thing over ando over. Hang in there and I am here to support you and anyone else that needs help!
Astelle,
Thank you. I am actually half way through NML’s book and have recommended it to other bloggers as it is very insightful.
HAHA, you are right. He definitely has a gravy train right now, not working, his wife supports him, he is lazy, and seeing other women while she is at work. Actually, he led me to believe he wanted a life with me, not his wife, while all along I had told him that I was married. I know now that he used me for money and his other purposes. hindsight is 20/20.
I had no intention of having an affair with him forever. Things really never got off the ground for us. All along the “relationship” never progressed, but I was fully ready to make a decision one way or the other once I decided which way and direction my life was suppose to take. EUM had a job until last Sept, a good, high paying job. He told me he quit the job to start his own company, but now I think he was fired, as he is still not working. As far as OW is concerned, I am just really hurt that he picked up with someone else within the week after cutting me off. We had some issues about this woman while we were still together and I confronted him about her, and he said he didn’t like her in a romantic way. Since he was with her within the week, I have been hurt that he has no regard for my feelings. If he did, he would not cavort with her right in front of me and my house out in the open. It has been very painful to watch.
I have actually done a pretty great job of hiding my issues from my family. They have, at times, sensed something is wrong, but I have not neglected my husband or my family, I deal with my issues when I am alone.
I have not been defensive. I posted 2 times between those hours. I replied to 3 other posts. Free country. Why are you counting? I have HEARD and understood everything and am open to other people’s comments whether I agree or not. What I am not open to on a site that is supposed to be for positive discussion and no aggression to the author, is the people who are personally nasty and hateful towards other bloggers! If it was as easy as telling ourselves, “ok, it is over, I was used, that was unfortunate, will know next time” and be done, why isn’t this site empty?? You are still here too…
I understand that hoping for closure is a waste of time because it probably will never happen. And what you are saying is if he did come back around at this point, his motives would be in serious question, which I already know I would never be able to trust what he says again. I appreciate your insight. Thanks.
Devestated, you say “Him staring at you…he has to know that it bothers you. Joe calling or texting me…he knows it will get to me”.
I cannot read someones mind and maybe your EUMs are different from mine but I am not altogether sure that there is some master plan behind this odd behaviour of staring and texting.
I know for a fact that my EUM who used to oh so casually text me after he dumped me really didn´t think about how it might affect me. I thought he did and wondered what does he mean, why is he texting me. But it turned out is really was just casual texting. He just thought: oh, I feel a bit lonely tonight, lets text …. maybe she will go for it and will fill the hole inside me for a minute. He didn´t think “it might confuse or upset her” or “how can I time this right to manipulate her”. Or anything along that line. He simply doesn´t have it in him to empathize or imagine my feelings. So how could he manipulate me? I think I was just manipulating myself by looking for more than it was. Because I simply couldn´t believe someone really didn´t give a second thought to these text that upset me so much. But that was the truth in my case.
Betterwithouthim… I agree.. it was just embarassing and sad at the same time.. My friends reiterated that “he’s always lied like that” i guess i chose to ignore it.. I agree about being a pathological liar and actually believing what you say.. If he’s going to lie, don’t lie to my friends who know you’re lying.. in fact BE A MAN, DON’T LIE AT ALL, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS!!.
so better off.. i always thought his “new gf”would get what i was promised.. (typical trait of being in a relationship with a narcissist), but she can have it.. whatever that is.. some guy who can’t be truthful to anyone inlcuding himself..
kudos is right!!!!
Truthhurts,
Thanks for the comment. I know our EUM’s don’t have the capability to care about our feelings or anyone but themselves. So they may or may not know why they are staring or texting, but they aren’t worried about how we will “perceive” their staring or texting, thus we should just ignore it and not try to analyze the reasons behind it. You are right, I am having a hard time comprehending how someone can have such disregard for another person and continue to make attempts or keep someone hanging on and not consider their feelings.
Devestated, I found it very uncomprehesible too. If you yourself are basicaly social and upfront and especially when you have the tendency to see the good in people, it is difficult to accept that someone doesn´t have he same emotional capabilities. And even more difficult to accept that you have (literally and emotionally) been had by that person. All that is left is to pick up the pieces and make sure that we all be a little more aware in the future.
truthhurts
I agree with you 100%. You hit the nail on the head. They do not understand feelings or emotions…if they did we wouldn’t be here! My EUM just calls me and texts me and shows up at my house all the time. Even though I have asked him nicely and not so nicely not to. We also work together and I avoid him at all costs. It is so hard to not try and read into his actions. I don’t know how to do this. Any other relationship i’ve known about, just ends. This just won’t. I know it is part my fault for not taking more serious action to stop him, and that is what I have the issue with. How do I do this? I love him and the attention that he gives me. But I know it’s not right! I KNOW THIS! But I need to learn how to walk away. Reading all these ideas help so much and I do feel better each day. It’s just such a struggle. Any ideas?
thetruthhurts.. i just read your post below..
know for a fact that my EUM who used to oh so casually text me after he dumped me really didn´t think about how it might affect me. I thought he did and wondered what does he mean, why is he texting me. But it turned out is really was just casual texting. He just thought: oh, I feel a bit lonely tonight, lets text …. maybe she will go for it and will fill the hole inside me for a minute. He didn´t think “it might confuse or upset her†or “how can I time this right to manipulate herâ€. Or anything along that line. He simply doesn´t have it in him to empathize or imagine my feelings. So how could he manipulate me? I think I was just manipulating myself by looking for more than it was. Because I simply couldn´t believe someone really didn´t give a second thought to these text that upset me so much. But that was the truth in my case.
wow.. its like i’m looking int he mirror.. i went thru the same sht til i cut mine off at the knees.. no more bs, no more texts, no more nothing.. they are selfish and want to fulfill their own needs w/o thinking about how it might effect the other person.. i think it’s a matter of respect.. when someone tells you to leave them alone or you have hurt them and know they want you back.. DON’T FKING TEXT OR CALL!!!!.. I could have gone down the same path with my exhusband when i needed an ego massage.. ya know what though? I respect him too much to play that game and hope he respects me for not doing it..My ex husband is 10 times the man the assclown is that i left him for.. now who’s out in the cold? me… but boy do i have a warm thick lesson of life blanket with me..
good luck
Miserable:
I wanted to touch on a key point in one of your posts (if i may) You said: “I wondered what the best course of action is to show him that I still have some dignity left even after he treated me so terribly. Since the breakup, having him see me “happy†and living my life without him has been my main focal point to preserve what dignity I had left, sort of like salvaging what is left of my self-esteem and holding my head high.”
Like some others have said on this post, you are still attaching your self worth to this man. The best course of action is NC (as you have said you have been doing- which is great!!! Keep doing it) and yes to be happy and yes make the main focul point “living your life” but all of this needs to be done for YOU……not for him. Im not saying that you are “doing it for him” but you are doing it while looking over your shoulder to see what kind of reaction he has towards it and im sorry but that is still “doing it” for the wrong reasons. You will know you are doing it for YOU and not for any other reason when what this man thinks, says, does or doesnt do, absolutely no longer matters or crosses your mind. I know we all seek the magic potion/pill or time machine to launch us into this place sooner than later because it hurts so bad and we want out of the pain immediately!! But it can only be done by having patience with yourself and being determined EVERY single day to do something different and something that is going to HELP you get there. I know you are trying your darnest… but continuing to even allow one thought of this man to occupy your mind– is still giving him permission to be in your life and allowing him some power over you so work on diminishing the amount of thought and energy you are expending on this. Riding your bike even in the direction of his house is futile to your goal of getting over him! Ride the other way…or get in your car with the bike and go to the park instead? Unfortunately break ups hurt and they suck (no matter how dysfunctional they are) but YOU have to be the one to put in place and do whatever it takes to help yourself out of this. I will have to say that this course of action that you mention above is not helping towards this. Listen, I went through my break up with my EUM 6months ago and I work with him every day. And let me tell you– once you have truly decided that you really want to get over this person and no longer think about them, and you are determined to do what it takes… you will do it. What does this mean? Well for starters, it is possible to maintain NC and to remove yourself from situations that will keep you vulnerable and keep you stuck in continuing to seek validation from this person. For me, it was parking on the other side of the building to avoid seeing him, it was taking lunch at a later time so that I wouldnt encounter him, it was staying later at work if i had to if that meant not having to run into him in the hallway at 5pm when every one was leaving work. What is an inconvenience? Yes. Did it hurt? LIKE HELL! Did it suck? It sure did… but none of that mattered if it meant getting over someone who lied to me, broke my heart and is walking around with someone else already like if i had never even existed the past two years. It didnt matter if it meant giving myself back to myself and the self esteem that I had before I met him. This is what everyone on here is trying to tell you but (and I know its hard) you dont seem ready to do. You do not have to walk outside so he can see how happy you are or for you to feel that you have walked away with your dignity. In fact, you dont have to “SHOW” him anything! That comes from within yourself and its called self esteem and confidence when you dont need anyone else’s opinion or approval for you to feel these things. In fact, you will feel more empowered when you can say to yourself: I got closure without “needing” HIM to give it to me or realize that I am now happy”– give yourself a big pat on the back when you get there because that is PROGRESS! Continuing to ask the question of what makes these men tick and why he looks your way like he missed you is extremely self defeating and keeps you stuck. I would say read as much as you can the posts that NML has on “Seeking Validation”. And I know you may not understand what this really means and I mean what it truly means–because like most of us on here…. we have never really fully just relied on ourselves or loved ourselves enough for OUR opinion of ourselves to be all that matters. Which is why the first thing you have to work on is your self esteem……and that requires no one else’s participation (except a therapist or someone to help you) and MOST Definetely it does not require your X and one that is so toxic and such an A**clown like you have mentioned! In fact, think about that for one minute… he actually has contributed to your pain and to your lack of self esteem— how is “I want him to see me and know that I am happy” make sense? Do you think he is thinking this or even cares? Trust me, he plays no part in this equation and you have to come to terms with that. Asking all those questions you asked on the above post as to “does he just see me as eye candy” ” why does he stare at me if he doesnt want me”? “Surely someone has gone back to their EUM to have asked these questions”. That should say it all to you……. because these men are toxic and they are manipulators and they need ego stroking and even when they are the one’s that do the rejecting……. they still want to know that you are there because they are SELFISH! This has nothing to do with any FEELINGS towards you……and everything to do with feelings for themselves. Its because deep down these men cant deal with rejection either! Thats not to say that he shouldnt miss you and want you………why not? You are wonderful (im sure) but this is the stance that you should be taking every time you say you “FEEL” him looking your way. Why question the “WHY”…..you know why…… (that is if you really believe in yourself) because you are all the things that you say you are………he just didnt know how to appreciate it…….so let him go… his loss!!!! And every time you open that mailbox…. dont think to yourself “oh my god i feel him staring…why is he doing that,,, why??” Instead, say to yourself: “Yeah you sorry excuse for a man…. keep looking all you want because this woman has left the building and is never looking back! So look all you want but you cant have……because I deseve better than your sorry ass!!!” In fact, Ill check my mailbox later when I know you’re not around because you dont even deserve to glance my way or be in my presence! And then walk away with your head held high because YOU JUST VALIDATED yourself!! Doesnt that feel more empowering than waiting for him to do it for you??
I know one thing that helped me is to see this as an addiction…he is your addiction right now. You are so emotionally invested in him (still) that that is why it is so hard NOT to wonder why he is looking at you, what he thinks of you etc…. you are still trying to understand the “why’s”. But let me ask you this, put this in a different context such as the person who is addicted to alchohol or drugs… the person continues to go to bars, parties that have alcohol etc…all the while asking themselves… I just want to be able to not crave alcohol like i do. Every time I see a bottle I just want to grab it and drink away. What can i do…why does the bottle make me feel this way? Why does alchohol have so much control and power over me? What would be the first piece of advice that you would give this person? STOP GOING TO the bars…..STOP going to the parties … STOP putting yourself in situations that make you vulnerable and more susceptible to being stuck in the addiction and by all means… STOP thinking about the alcohol and start thinking about YOU!!!. Find a support system and START working on getting better. This part YOU DO have control over! The bars arent going to move, and people arent going to stop having parties…and alcohol bottles arent going to go away…so what are you left with? YOU!!!!! You are the one that has to muster up all the strenght and will power to REMOVE yourself from these situations (in your case– your xEUM) or in other words… “your addiction” (and yes obsessively asking why and trying to analyze him is still remaining stuck and addicted). And do Whatever it takes to do that! You are already coming to this site (that is great), you are already AWARE that you have an “issue” you need to deal with (Great! Awareness is key) you are already doing NC (but you need to adjust that because like someone else said…. you are still having contact if you are seeking out ways for him to see you) Now just put in place the PLAN to get yourself to that level, that place you say you want to be which is free of wanting/thinking about this man. And if that means, going out the back door so that you dont have to see him in front of his house… or if that means, watering your plants at night vs during the day so that you dont have to see him…than so be it. The question really comes down to HOW badly do you really want this? Because believe me, when you really want what you say you want.. you will do whatever it takes to get there! Now please dont take this as me implying that you dont have the desire……im sure you do…. but when you or anyone else asks what is the Secret formula or pill to get there…the truth is there isnt. It takes work. Work that yes– involves pain, involves heartache and involves lots of crying (perhaps) and grieving…..because you have to do this on your own and you have to be willing to let go of someone that yes you loved, or cared for and that always involves pain. You have to not be afraid of that pain or breaking down (and i know this sounds so cliche) but you have to actually accept and embrace that pain so that it gets worked through instead of avoiding it or trying to put band aids on it… that only prolongs it! In your case, it may be the pain of feeling rejected and having been “discarded” in such a manner. It is surely a huge blow to our ego especially if we walked around most of the time thinking that we were just so DANDY until this person came along who acted like we werent (I know I did). Perhaps this experience is showing you that you do have some more work to do on your self beliefs and self esteem — perhaps to make them stronger? So that the next time someone rejects you… you will just be able to brush your shoulder off and move on a little easier? Or perhaps so you have better self esteem so that you are no longer attracted to these type of men altogether? I dont know what this experience will mean for you but I know now what it has taught me. So what i am trying to say is there is a way— but that way does involve a lot of soul searching, a lot of self reliance and a lot of self reflecting and I will say this again… none of this requires any one else but “YOU”. I think NML has done a great job at providing us with the “TOOLS” necessary to get there… but in NONE of her posts does she ever say…. this does not involve pain and heartache or no work on your part will be required. This is the step that many of us arent willing to make because we are deathly afraid of ourselves and what we are going to find. Will we find out that we really are alone? Will this bring up abondonement issues? Will I realize that I fell in love with who I “thought” this person was rather than who he “really” is? Will I realize that it is “ME” who has been putting myself in these bad relationships all the while thinking it was “their” fault?? And if all of this is true…..what does that say or mean about “ME”? Give yourself back the power that you allowed this person to take from you. This doesnt mean that these types of men are right or justified in their behaviour, this doesnt mean that you blame yourself and run to be his best friend. This means you realize what role you play in this whole messed up scenario and you DO something about it so that you #1.. take yourself out. and #2… you work on it so that you dont ever have to see yourself there again.
You say you are a person that likes to be in control… what is having more control than not looking to someone else to validate you? You are giving it away every time you say: But why did he not want me? Listen, rejection is hard and believe me, it is still hard for me so if you are looking for a gage to where you will be 6months down the road…. well… a hell of a lot better (because i worked on it) but still working on it day by day! I consider myself a very attractive, intelligent woman and like you, the woman who my Xeum is with now is not even half of what i am or what i can offer someone but I realized that that is part of “HIS” problem and that although he rejected me all those feelings of unworthiness and doubting who i am etc…. had to do with me because I had not yet convinced myself that i was wonderful…and so anytime anyone else thought that i wasnt…(especially someone that i loved) i felt my heart beating so fast, and the world around me crumbling. That had to do with me…and it has to do with you…not him. That is probably one of the hardest concepts to understand but it is the truth.
So I’m writing this also because you asked for feedback from others who are perhaps a little further along and because you asked: “This may be a no brainer question, but if anyone has feedback on what their EUM said was their reason, I would appreciate knowing it.”
And I wanted to tell you that my posts from a few months back are completely different than they are now and it had nothing to do with
understanding him better or psycho-analyzing him…..the answers are in understanding YOURSELF better and realizing that you are still seeking validation outside of yourself. The EUM’s have their own path to follow one that neither of us should be concerned with or waste so much of our time wondering about. The question shouldnt be: Will he ever change or will he ever learn or know any better?? The question should be: Will YOU Change and will you KNOW better next time? And what are you doing to make sure of this and are you really determined and willing to get there? Trust me, you have a better chance of changing than he does! And since I see my EUM every day at work…. I can tell you that his reasons (whatever the heck they are) are still not good enough because no reason is ever good enough to justify their behaviour so what does it matter? And trust me, all they would be doing is “justifying” their behaviour and just telling you what you want to hear as a “REASON” for you to just stop asking and leave it alone already. (that was not meant in a bad tone towards you by the way…. just more so of the type of perception these men have towards us)
Keep up the good work and keep trudging forward…its hardwork but you just need to adjust your thoughts and your habits a little so that you can go in a different direction. I know its been working for me
so I hope that this helps a little for you and I truly wish you much courage and strength. You can do it! 
(thank god! oh….. and to NML!
andoblogger
I feel the same way as you. I have said to Joe…please just leave me alone. Let me be. As soon as I start ignoring him or not looking in his direction at work, he gets 10 times worse. He’ll write me notes and leave them on my desk. He’ll call and call and call. He’ll even just show up at my home. If he didn’t want to be with me then why bother and put all this energy into it? I know I need to be somewhat civil because of the work thing, but that’s it. My husband was also 100 times the man that this idiot is or ever will be. I think that part of my issue is how stupid I fell for throwing that all away for nothing. As I have said before. If only I had listened to my gut instead of my heart?! I am way to good for this idiot and I know this. The funny thing is, if I would decide to try again with him, I know it would only be a matter of time before I would hate it again! why my head can’t grasp this…I’ll never know.
devastated.. i too feel foolish still to this day, now and then… My ex husband has moved on, found a nice girl, bought a house etc.. and I’m basically alone b/c of a stupid choice that my husband knew was the wrong one but never judged me for it or thru it in my face.. I won’t lie my husband and I had issues.. we were a great team when we both showed up for the game.. we were both so independent we blinked and realized we were just sharing a house, having sx and sleeping next to each other.. i regret it.. but i can’t change it, just learn by it and i have.. The grass is never greener.. If Joe respects you he will leave you alone, if he doesn’t you have to take steps to make sure he does.. It’s not about if he’s still there, who is one upping who, it’s about moving on and healing.. And that question about him not wanting to be with you but putting in all that energy? why don’t you ask him that? in fact don’t bother.. don’t blame his actions on you not moving on.. start to take control of your own life.. I did, and I am a year out..
Miserable Love–
Yep, it’s all within you to change things. Forget about him.
Though I do think this guys is wayyyyy screwed up in the head: emotionally, psychologically, analytically, etc. Hence his not putting his all into finding a new job and thus starting to move forward in his life. Hence his regressing and acting like a teenager! He has major issues he must deal with! (including, probably, depression and/or depressive tendencies…)
Obviously, you will never tell the wife about his past, latest, and future affairs.
But I personally would like it if she were to find out, from another source. But you can never be involved in that. Even when you are fully healed, which will happen someday, I guarantee you.
…That is, unless you know for sure that: (A) you won’t get caught being a part of her finding out; and (B) you have completely let go; in other words, anything that ties you to him (including remote actions of yours) won’t bother you or keep you tied to him emotionally.
Karen,
I have re-read your post several times and appreciate so much you taking the time and energy to give me advice and support during this horrible time for me.
I was so devastated and you are right, my self-esteem was demolished by this assclown. I have always been a pretty confident outspoken woman with average self-esteem. He completely destroyed it. I am very bitter about all he has “taken” from me personally and in regards to my marriage and and that I have to live with my choices the rest of my life. Regretful choices.
I totally realize that “I am still in this” by looking to see if he is out or if he is watching me while I am out. I get that. Honestly, it may not be as much as an addiction as it is a habit. (Same thing, I guess). I have acted the same way outside for the last 4 years, habit of looking for him, “letting him know I am out there”, etc. I really do want my own life back. I am still tying my happiness to whether he still looks at me outside when I am out. It is pathetic. I know that I need to refrain from looking, that is the first step. If I could get to where I intentionally avoid being out where he can see me (if possible), doing something to get his attention, etc. and start becoming good at that, I think I will slowly be able to stop caring what he thinks.
When you said thinking about what he is thinking keeps me “stuck”, that is exactly the word I used today in fact, that I feel Stuck, like I can’t get past this next step. I know that keeping tabs on him and his new love interest isn’t helping anything for sure.
Everything you said about the mailbox (HAHA) is exactly what I was thinking. You are great! I have days where I think HAHA ass look what you lost, but there are days where I feel him boring a hole in my body and it makes me uncomfortable. I should water and get mail, etc when he is not out. And maybe after awhile, I will be able to do all those things whether he is out or not and not care if he is looking. You hit my problem right on the head: I love this man, and he discarded me like a piece of litter on the side of the road. No warning, no care or respect for me or my feelings, my life, my needs, etc. I am not used to dealing with men like that. Before I married, I didn’t put up with that crap. It is not that I thought I was DANDY. You know my story, and that we were already friends and that he was separated from his wife when he first approached me, but the day he first approached me we were at the local skating rink with our daughters as they were at a birthday party. He boldly walked right up to me and said, “I just want you to know that I have had feelings for you for a long time and really think you are great, beautiful, etc.” The first thing I said to him while laughing because I thought he was kidding was “I am an older woman with two kids”, meaning in my mind (and I guess I have always had lower self-esteem) I wasn’t “all that”. Well he then built me up like I was “all that”. Then I fell in love with him. Then he discarded my ass for the 60 pound, alcoholic, woman across the street who is married, and completely unattractrive. I am 100 times more woman, more attractive, highly educated, employed, than she is. She doesn’t work, is uneducated, drinks all day. I think he discarded me when he realized I was “on to him” and his ways and that me being independent and all, I wasn’t going to put up with his treatment. He outright told me one time he wanted to “wear the pants and I think I have them”. My response to him was “you aren’t wearing the pants, we will share the pants”. He didn’t like that. Luckily I am further along in my self exploration than it appears. I have cried, pondered, done a lot of searching/thinking, and I have a long way to go for sure. I was completely deceived by this man and I fell for it. He “acted” like a different man in the beginning and quickly turned once he “had me reeled in”. Thank you for wishing me courage and strength. Thanks for the support, I really needed it. I understand and agree with everything you said. You have a lot of wisdom. I am sorry for your situation. You have taken all the steps necessary to remove yourself away from your assclown. I need to stop putting myself out there. After 4 months, I doubt he is going to have an “ah ha” moment and realize that he loves me, and I know I should be thanking God that I don’t have to deal with his sorry ass anymore. I just kept thinking that if he saw me he would miss me and want me. At this point, I would take an apology, but like you said, that will most likely never come, I have to move on from within. I think all the people here on this site will be very helpful in getting me over the hump of this part of the healing process. Please keep checking back on this blog, you have been BIG help. Thank you!
anoldblogger and truthhurt,
Thanks for you info too. I think the staring thing can fall in line with what you were talking about, if they discard us the should leave us the hell alone in EVERY way, don’t talk, don’t look, don’t text, don’t stare, don’t wink, don’t call, don’t show up, etc. Assholes! : }
Miserable
Since you asked, I’ll attempt to define addiction to drama, based on my experiences with the one EUM I encountered in my life, an experience I am still processing. Many of us here have struggled with the denial and confusion that comes from involvement with these people. In my example I am using the man as the antagonist, but I am sure some women are capable of this story also.
You are addicted to the drama and are seeking an end to the story in a way that makes sense to you. The drama is called drama because it is like a play or a movie; it is fantasy and not reality. The problem with an EUM is that the reality totally sucks. Some people, the guy in your neighborhood for example, are way more troubled than a typical EUM as defined on this website. I guess that means the reality in your case sucks even more and it will suck just as bad for the next person he goes after. You have been used, tricked, fooled and discarded. Your internal intelligence and your warning systems did not serve you, and even worse it was something that makes you feel that the confusion and trickery is some kind of amazing love. Here is the way I see many of these EUM scripts go;
Girl meets EUM / AC / or in your case something worse. Anyway, said guy enjoys and maybe needs the drama of the game of lure / catch /reel in / play with/ release with women and he uses effective techniques that trigger primal attatchment/ abandonment feelings in the women. The push pull brings up the physiological components of abandonment, hence the drama and the basis of the ensuing addiction. I beleive this stressful physiological reaction to abandonment also masquereades for the “feelings” of love that we profess to have in these kind of relationships.
The techniques the guy uses are…Pull in hard and close, create safety and comfort and some kind of intimacy…then push away and create abandonment and fear. The natural reaction of the woman is to then try hard to get back to comfort and stability, and this actually creates more drama. This also helps create the fantasy that he is the one …you have never felt these intense feelings brought on by abandonment before, so it must be a really really special love. NOT !
If you stop reading right now and take away one thing from my comment here it is : pay attention to these feelings and behavior if you ever encounter them again. This stage is the stage where you are getting hooked, and it is the stage the experienced wiser women exits stage left running hard and laughing in releif.
Do the guys know they do it ? I think some do and some don’t. Do they enjoy the drama? I think some do and some are not even aware of what they are doing and are perplexed by it all. Do they know healthy ways to love or relate ? I don’t think so, and certainly not in the case of your neighborhood mess.
you wrote this..on trying to understand my advice to your addiction..
“So your advice is to remove myself from his presence as much as possible and forego “putting myself out there†so he can see how “happy†I am without him, etc. ”
That is not what I meant at all, I just meant it helps to get away to get some release and clarity from the addiction of wanting him to validate or explain your importance to him. That won’t happen with him, he has no integrity or ability to care about you. It never was about you anyway, it always was about him and his messed up needs. You were important to him as a part in his play, and maybe the control he got from knowing he had you was important to him. The thing that stands out with what you wrote above is that you are thinking about what he thinks, and that you care that he can see how happy you are etcetc…
While eventually him seeing you happy without him may be a part of your peace, what you wrote says you are still working for the man, under his control, thinking about him. That is what he wants, for you to be under his control, thinking about him. Maybe just cause he gets off on knowing you care. Not because he cares in the least about your welfare or happiness or a relationship with you. Since you are self employed, look at your life this way….it is better to be working for you, not the man. In this case, to get over this, you have to stop working for him and start working for you.
If you run your own business, if you were disciplined enought to learn an instrument, and have held yourself together though all this mess, you are a woman used to calling the shots. And you will not be able to call the shots with this guy. Your strength is likely one reason he went after you. This unemployed guy sitting around needs to feel some control to feel important, and how empowering for him to get control of a woman who is capable and strong in many areas.I supsect these guys get off on choosing women who seem to have it together, this makes them feel even bigger when they cut the line and let a big fish go – it is more satisfying to catch and discard a challenging prey.
Yet he knows of a weakness that exists in many women involving romantic fantasy that I guess we are all capable of indulging in. Time for you to face that weakness, and the solution is all about facing reality. He is a really awful man, you have a husband who hopefully loves you, and hopefully you love him, you have kids who need a fully present mom. You have work to do to get back to loving you, and the life you have created with your husband and your kids. There is no room for this bad guy in there at all.
Of course, you know you should not care why he is with another woman and you should even be glad he is gone. But we do care, because our egos have been bruised along with all the other emotional drama and trauma we have experienced. Our minds cannot fathom what is going on, nor register the physiological reactions, and we try to logically explain away the awfulness of being used, and letting ourselves be used, by claiming to have found this unusual love or person. Why else would we possibly behave so ilogically ? We also defne our illogical beleifs by making the man be special. But this is more illogical fantasy. Yes, they are special, but in the most negative way; they are especially awful.
Look at the cold hard facts here. If we saw a movie about your neighborhood, I bet this is not a man you would choose to get involved with, no matter how initially charming or good looking or wealthy or whatever special things he might say. The emotionally controlling behavior he is so good at must work on many women, hence the next neighborhood victim, with whom he will create
“desire”, and then reinforce his control when he pulls away.
But it’s all a twisted fantasy. A few posts back Used asked you ..what is the ultimate fantasy here ? …that he will come over tomorrow and explain all the horrible treatment away ? that he will then leave his wife ? you will leave your husband ? and you two will have a perfect relationship ? Where do the kids come in ? Is he really a person you want your kdis to know as a stepfather? You seem to be an educated women… Does this fantasy truly make any sense to you ? Does it even seem possible at all ?
It is very hard to recover from being discarded. He may still want you on some weird level that satisfies his messed up needs. That is irrelevant because that is not what you are seeking in a partner or even a friend. All you get is more drama, that keeps you in a bad play, and stays from you trying to understand how he could treat you this way, and from having a hard time accepting the fact that a messed up guy does not care about you in any real way. You should have outrage that he used you so heartlessly, you may be angry with yourself for letting it happen. That is OK, that is reality.
But, we create drama , ie…a story, a fantasy, a movie version of your own lives….by denying the cold hard facts. To me your story sounds almost unbelievable. I would define a very clear code of contact with this man and the only fantasy I would work hard to maintain about him is one in which his wife gets transferred to another planet and takes him far far away.
Here is one more area of reality I think you need to face. When the EUM I know turned on me, I knew I was in a sorry and shellshocked state, and I apologized to my daughter, for not being able to be there for her as a Mom while I dealt with it. Luckily she is mature, almost on her own, her life was good at the time and she did not need me for much.
But your attempt at dealing with this kind of rejection, as well as the complication that he is an unemployed neighbor, always around and looking for something to do, and the fact that you are married, is stealing away your focus on you, and your focus on your true and real self and very real responsibilites.
At present those responsibilites are to return to working to be a good stable person, a good mother and a good wife. I have to commend you for holding it together, but you have to get out of the very effective ” control patterns” that the guy has set up to try to keep you playing a part in his very unhealthy drama.
Once you stop buying into his control patterns, you will start to get rid of the addictive undue attention you are giving him and like the oft repeated advice here..put the focus back on you. Until you are really out of the addiction of thiking and caring about what he’s thinking about.. , ie thinking about him, you might not really grasp the concepts. Seeing him seems to keep that addiction going for you. If you can’t get away, I’d be coming up with an arsenal of creative behavioral mod techniques to get him out of my head.
These guys are a something of a mindf**ck, but yours much more than others. You need to approach your recovery with every bit of clarity and help you can get. Read NML’s book, read the posts here, read up on recovery from being involved with a narcissist. But there is no escaping the reality that you really have a hard bunch of work ahead of you. You have encountered something truly awful, as many of us here have. You have beleived it was something else than what it really was. You let it happen, as we all did, and only you can direct your recovery by facing the facts.
If I were you I would start writing s new story in your head right now based on the cold hard facts. Write it until it is absolutly honest, just the facts. The write a two sentence version of that story. Memorize that.Tell yourself the short version every single time the AC comes into your thoughts in any way.You are defining reality as truly is, as it has to be.
Later, after you are over the addiction, and it took me two full months, you can start to ponder all the other things that will come up about all this. There are plenty, it’s a journey. Hope I have made it one that appears worthy of the effort.
No need to thank any of us for our time spent writing, it helps us in our own recovery to firm up ideas and share. Good luck.
Miserable Love–
O.K., now I know how you are thinking. I think that I also know what you want, at least what you want for now. And what you are thinking and what you want (or think you want): are NOT good things; will delay your healing (but I don’t think you want to be healed, at least not now–you are, in fact, second-guessing whether you want to be healed); and may destroy your family.
Sorry to blow your cover, but here goes:
#1: You say you love him. Up until now, I thought it was 100% obsession, obsessive love, wanting what you can not have, wanting the unattainable, etc….not love.
But whether you love him or not doesn’t make a difference. What you say and how you act show that you, for whatever reasons (love, obession, whatever), WANT this guy back! Despite your marriage, despite your protestations that you want to heal, despite tons and tons of advice here!
#2: Your words clearly show that:
you are selfish;
you are proactively wanting and seeking this guy’s attention;
you are justifying all of this, partly b/c you have gotten used to the attention from him this past 4 years and have thus come to expect it; and that:
you are trying to get proof that he loves you back.
You do NOT want an apology. (Your saying you do is a scapegoat, so that you can make yourself look better. I wish I never brought it up!)
You want what you had back, b/c you love him or you think you love him, and you think you can not live without him.
You do not even just want the ego boost that you have gotten from his attention/glances/flirting. If that was it, you would be satisfied with his current staring and what-not.
You want more, and a rekindling of the “relationship” has to be it!
Please, go seek the services of a therapist before you destroy your marriage. Your actions show that you are asking for trouble. Your proactively seeking out his attention is playing with fire…and you will get burned even worse this time…and you have a LOT to lose.
I can’t spend more time on this. Best of luck to you.
aphrogirl
WOW…i read you r post to miserable love and it was the best, most honest, well written thing I have read to date! You hit it big time. I am going to reread it everyday! I cannot believe how much you are right! It all made so much sense it is scary. Please know that you have, in your post, just helped me see the light finally! I think I understand why I cannot shake this, and as you said, I have never encountered such an awful person in my life. I honestly didn’t think people could be so cruel. I was dead wrong. This is a valuable lesson, that hurts and sucks and will take a very long time for me to get over. But, I will. I have to, for myself and my daughters. I hope they NEVER experience an asshole like this in their lives. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and know that your words have helped me out tremendously!!
Used, aphrogirl, Karen, awesome responses!!
I truly believe that in a good marriage/relationship a third party wouldn’t have a chance to destroy it.
If I a married woman can not get over an “affair” than she has her own issues with being selfish and self absorbed, just thinking what is good for her. Where does this leave the husband? His “job” is to provide for the family? What about his well being and emotionally health? He has a right to that too, but self centered people (like you Miserable Love) just think about themselves.
Miserable Love,I agree with Used, go see a therapist to resolve these issues for your own well being and maybe even marriage counseling, because I get the feeling that you want out, but needing a another man to get you out – you just happened to come across a man that can’t even support himself!
Put the focus back on you – and if you really have the guts – talk to your husband about what happened, it may bring positive change, you don’t know if you don’t try, it may be good for the both of you.
Also, if you gave this loser a lot of money – I hope not – get it back from him, let your husband collect it from him! This loser neighbor will spit it out just to keep it hidden from the wife and the other women he is scamming in your area.
Used,
: } : } For some reason, you are dissecting everything I have ever said to “diagnose” me. Which is fine, but not always accurate. Hell, my heart and my head are still fighting each other trying to tell me what I want, what I need, what is good, not good, I am getting more confused by your analysis! In having good and bad days, I may sound more like I want him back and can’t live without him one day or I am asking general advice on how to further my healing. Let’s address these sequentially like you did:
#1 Thanks for the analysis, but I love this person! Not a game, a playmate, a fantasy, an obsession, I point blank love him. I may contradict myself due to writing space constraints. Lets be clear. I am working on my marriage and want it to work. I have already come to terms with the fact that AC and I will never be able to be together they way he promised we would. I don’t “want him back” for the purpose of getting together forever and to leave my husband. I know that if that happened, he would be unfaithful to me, lie to me, and probably dump me again like he already did. I have already said I do want to heal and I have taken lots of the advice I have received already.
#2: I cannot fathom anything that I have said that would make ME look selfish. I have off and on been trying to get his attention in hopes that it would induce him to contact me and provoke him to feel remorse, and guilt, and the need to give me a proper explanation of his terrible behavior. I believe all of us would like to feel that our whole relationship wasn’t “in vain” and that our assclowns once really did love like they say they did, even though they just woke up and decided they don’t anymore. I would like to know if he ever loved me, still loves, or is a zombie who feels nothing. I would like an apology or at least an acknowledgement that he is an asshole and has treated me poorly, yes that is true, closure. I would like to “look” better than him right now and do have a loss of self-esteem from being discarded like trash. The apology wish is not a scapegoat. I have lived without him for 4 months. I do not want a rekindling of the relationship.
I have to live with this experience the rest of my life. Who wants to look back and say, Man I was treated terribly and kicked to the curb, I almost left my husband for this jerk, etc. I would like to walk away from this tragedy accepting my part in it, learning from it, having information that I was denied, and some closure to be able to move on and put this behind me.
I realize I have a lots to lose. I am not seeking attention for the purpose of getting back together, I just want him to see that I am “happy” and doing just fine without his sorry ass. I wish he would regret hurting me and show that he has some human tendencies.
I will keep the counseling recommendation in mind. I have been focusing on my marriage and we are doing a lot better, not that my marriage had anything to do with why I got involved with EUM. I know that I can’t do anything to jeaporadize my marriage again, as I don’t what to lose my husband.
Like I said, I didn’t purposely search out my AC. He pursued me knowning I was married, and had no intention of getting involved with him. I have only been still seeking his attention outside hoping that would “register” him a guilty feeling that he would have a desire to resolve final issues in our relationship, so that we could move on on better terms. I would also like some validation from him for dignity purposes, maybe say, I am sorry for the way I have treated you, I still love and you and always will, you deserve way more than I could ever be to you, etc. That might actually help me stop feeling like a huge loser every time he looks at me. Thanks.
Aphrogirl and Karen,
Your responses were wonderful and very helpful. Thank you so much! You guys really do “get it”.
Astelle – You are still clueless. Seems like you have to be told the same things over and over and over. You seem to pick and choose what you want to “read” and then start demeaning people. If I was selfish, I would have just left my husband and kids immediately on the whim of someone else to hell how it affected them. I am not selfish, think what you will. The whole situation is so much bigger than ME. FYI, I have fulfilled all my wifely and motherly duties in full without absence, with no detriment to anyone else. So you can rest your fears that my husband’s well being and personal health is fantastic and that I continued to provide for my family in the face of all my own personal issues. You are still making uninformed comments. If you would look back, you would see that I never looked to stray from my husband whom I love, and am not looking to “get away” from him until I ” have another man” to fall back on, as you say. That is absurd.
One thing you are correct about is the money situation. Please people do not lend a man money!! I knew when he asked to borrow it, I had a feeling in the pit of my stomach something wasn’t right, but I am a very kind, giving person, and would help anyone if I could, so I did, then it was more here and more there, etc. I did not give him my husband’s money. I gave him my own personal money that I had been given and saving up for holidays and birthdays. AC’s wife doesn’t know he borrowed money from me, as she doesn’t know about me. My husband doesn’t know about AC, so I can’t tell him I lent him my money. AC knows he has me screwed because I can’t “litigate” to get it back, and I can’t make a big deal about it to him or tell anyone. Just my mistake, and won’t make it again. To me, it isn’t about the “money”, it is about the deceit and lack of integrity to pay back a debt you owe. My thinking is if he can’t even pay back the debt he owes, which to me is separate sidebar from our relationship, I don’t want the stinking money back. It is not worth it. I gave him three chances to give me the money back on his terms. He didn’t come through with it. I will never see it.
Another problem: My husband wouldn’t be able to stand up to this guy who is verbally abusive and way bigger than he is. My husband can’t even stand up for me and my children to others or his family. I am the one who has to take care of defending and standing up for things. I lent AC the money out of the kindness of my heart, not for anything else in return. Out of respect for him, I didn’t even ask what he needed it for, I just gave it to him, never thinking I wouldn’t be paid back. Once again, another poor decision. I wrote off the money a long time ago. He has to live with the knowledge that he cheats people out of money.
Miserable love, I realize emotions can be irrational sometimes but seeing all the assclown qualities your EUM posesses, what is it that makes you say you love him? What do you love about him?
Are you sure you are not fooling yourself?
Same with your husband. How in the world can you have a good marriage when he appearantly doesn´t notice that you have been going through turmoil for the last 4 months and cheated on him before that? Can you really say that you then have a true connection or friendship the way you should have with your life partner?
I really don´t mean to judge you but your words seem to contradict the facts you have shared with us. And that makes me worried that you are at least partly still living in phantasyland/drama. You can´t get over this untill you see the cold hard facts.
miserable, you wrote…
“#2: I cannot fathom anything that I have said that would make ME look selfish.”
all I can say in response is !!!!!!! are you for real ? look hon, I am rooting for you, and if your story is real I feel for you but…..
I try to write with compassion here becasue I beleive we get seriously deluded by the assclownery, I know I was.
But, an affair is a betrayal, plain and simple. It is a betrayal of a commitment involving confidence of the heart, and that is some very serious stuff. Unless you want or have the most shallow of relationships with your husband you are letting the most unworthy “romance” make your marriage a sham.
All behavior you have engaged in, has the same effect on your husband as the assclownery all of us here have experienced from the AC’s. Anything you write about the selfish AC neighbor, how he hurt you, treated you like trash, are things your husband would likely write or feel if he knew of your behavior.
Maybe Asyelle is right and you do want out of your marriage. You seem to think you have fullfliied your role as wife and mother but I ..are you serious ?!?. The roles you have fulfilled are only the superficial. You are not thinking about the emotional component of a relationship, and the emotional connection and commitment and opportunities for growth, that is implied in a marriage .
That you may want out is for you to explore honestly and openly with a therapist, not the neighborhood flake. And, out of kindness , you would ideally sort it out in your head before taking actions that could break your husband’s heart.
I’ll reiterate; unless you and your husband have discussed and agreed to open marriage, your betrayal of being involved with another man, regardless of any excuses you can make to justify why its OK, is selfish behavior. NO exceptions. It’s up to you to have integrity no matter what the situation. If we choose to act without integrity we are being selfish.
I’m with Astelle on this, because in any relationship of mine that involved an affair would have to be outed and with the help of a very skilled therapist, Then the very hard work of earning forgiveness would have to begin. And I would hope that my husband loved me enough to work to accept the hard work I would do to try to earn his forgiveness.
ON a lighter note….It did cross my mind that your story has generated the most amazing number of responses, from women who have the distinct experience of not giving up on guys who seem to be resistant to taking steps toward facilitating their growth and potential….
while I’m still rooting for you miserable.this is starting to remind me of my involvement with the EUM … You have received lots of solid advice here but I feel the need to disengage from the conversation because writing and words can be used to run around in circles and avoid the hard work needing to be done.
I sincerely hope you come to agree and benefit from some of the things shared here.
truthhurts,
I am not fooling myself with my feelings for the assclown. I guess where the confusion lies is that I came to this site for help on getting over the AC, while I put my part of the marriage back together, not to come here to dissect my marriage. Yes both areas affect each other, but they are two different situations. We really do have a good marriage. I am sure he notices that I have been “going through some things” emotionally, but I try to keep it to myself as much as possible. My husband and I do have a connection and deep friendship. It is possible to love two people at the same time, and unfortunately that happened to me. It was sort of like living two separate lives, not fun, not right, but that is what for a brief time. Since it is over, I have realized that the grass isn’t greener, and am very thankful that I realized this before it was too late. My husband and I doing a lot better now, and the reason I came to this site was to seek help in dealing with what I went through with the AC, get him out of my system, and move the focus back to where it should be. I can assure you I am not still in drama land, I am trying to get my life back and put this terrible mistake behind me.
My situation is somewhat opposite. I am the woman he left his wife for a month and a half ago. However, I find in spying on his emails (it happened by accident) to her, he told her twice he misses her (” a lot”), is very overly kind and polite in his language to her, says he’s sorry he hurt her feelings by leaving, and recently told her he “prayed for her to sell [their former] condo so she could move by the summer.”, and was surprised when she emailed him the very next day that she’d accepted an offer. Why is he so solicitous towards her? She did not respond to him at all on these points. If I were she, I’d tell him to piss off. The only thing he can hope to gain by telling her these things is the soothing of his own guilt, make himself feel like a good person.
All the while, he has been telling me that he does not miss her at all, and that he thinks of her as a sister. I know he has baggage with her, but he had decided to divorce her long before he met her, my appearance was a catalyst. I am distancing myself from him emotionally, as I feel I am ‘the rebound’, especially since he so lovingly told me that I should “Never mention this issue again” and “If I don’t believe him, it’s my own damn problem”. Ironically, his soon-to-be-ex distanced herself from him emotionally, never broaching the subject of his having had a brief affair in the 12th of their 23 years of marriage. He probably told her to shut up, too.
aphrogirl,
I can assure you my story is REAL, whatever that means.
Again, there seems to be some confusion as to what topic people are talking about in regard to my situation. Do you all want to discuss my marriage or my relationship with the AC, which is why I came here in the first place? I have only been here to try to deal with getting over my AC. But somewhere along the lines, the psychoanalysis of my marriage came in and now everyone is talking about both and no one knows which one they are talking about, including myself. I myself have strictly been talking about my feelings and situations with the AC, to better understand them, myself, and put them behind me.
I thought in prior posts when people were saying I was selfish, they were talking about me being selfish in relation to Assclown. If you all want to talk about my marriage, please be clear and we can discuss that separately. So since you all want to focus on the fact that I had the affair to begin with, lets talk about that.
I would be the first to tell you that I was SELFISH in allowing anything to happen with AC and to betray my husband. You cannot be harder on me, than I already have been on myself. Of course, I know that was selfish. At the time I didn’t think I was being selfish, becuase I have lived my entire life for other people and had lost who I was, and when I was feeling really happy because of AC, I felt that life was too short not to check it out and see where it went. That was selfish because of my family and husband, my morals, etc. But it was what I needed to do for ME at the time, and if you want to call that selfish, fine. You don’t walk in my shoes and it is not as simple as that. This is funny because if you knew me, Selfish is never a word I have EVER been called. I give so much of myself to others, too much, and the one time in my entire life I leave the “straight and narrow” path, people act like I have had many affairs, etc. : } I did betray my husband, never done anything like it before, never will again. I have to live with that the rest of my life, it wasn’t “intentional”. I didn’t set out to do it, however, I take full responsibility. I do not want out of my marriage, never did, or I would have left the minute AC entered my life.
You are right, I have fulfilled my roles during this hard time, maybe “going through the motions” at times, I can certainly say I wasn’t giving a 100% at times, especially since I have been involved with AC, but no partner in a marriage gives 100% all the time. When you are going through things, your partner picks up the slack, and vice versa. He has definitely noticed I have been going through alot and has asked questions, suspected things, etc., but I have been able to maintain things. This was not a 5 year affair. It lasted a few months, most of which we didn’t see each other anyway, still doesn’t make it any less though, I understand that. What you all don’t realize is that he “bothered” me for 2 years prior to anything happening between us. I was in constant turmoil just trying to not let anything happen between us during that time. Because I didn’t want what ended up happening to happen. And I wish it hadn’t. It is a very long drawn out story. Whether you believe me or not, I had the best of intentions to keep avoiding him and not let him get to me.
I did betray my husband and I am not justifying that it is ok under any circumstance, and am willing to pay whatever consequences that come from it. It was not fair to him or my family. I have the utmost integrity and always try to right my wrongs.
I am not resistant to facilitating my healing, growth, etc. that is why I am here. I have read lots of wonderful blogs and have been helped tremendously just in the days I have been coming to this site. I have been doing a lot of hard work and am not avoiding it or trying to keep busy doing other things to avoid working on my situations. Actually, I have only brought up a couple different topics that I sought advice about and other people have added more drama and “added other issues” to spiral this into a huge discussion. That was never my intention when I came here. I just hoped that one person would respond to my request for advice, and I have been blessed by hearing many other perspectives. Thank you, I have benefited from the advice immensely and understand you need to do what you need to do.
I am trying to focus my attention within this site on issues with an EUM and getting through NC to the point I don’t care what he thinks, etc. That is what I came here to discuss. I guess in the future people need to leave off some of the facts of their situation and not be totally honest, because they get beat up for it. I said that I was married because I was being honest, and people want to focus on my infidelity, which as already happened, and not focus on the aftermath, what I am trying to resolve. If you had a similar situation to mine, you understand exactly what I am talking about.
Thank you again, aphrogirl
Correction to my original post: “but he had decided to divorce her long before he met ME.”
Aphrogirl: Wonderful Wonderful post! Your words have helped me tremendously as well. Very well put and I thank you so much for that!
To Miserable (and anyone else who my story might help):
I relate to your story more than you think…it is just that I posted my story many months ago that it is tiring at times to rehash something that I have truly grown from immensly in the past 6months. All the stories on here are dysfunctional…because we are ourselves dysfunctional. I am not here to focus on nor pass judgement on your situation (you being married, your xeum being divorced etc..etc..) what is done is done and you can only move on from where you are now regardless of opinions others may have of you. I say this because every one’s story is relative to their lives, their own beliefs, their own pain etc…. including mine. My xEUM lived with his three kids and their mother (and still does) and while many will choose to judge me on that, it is fine…because only I know what hell I put myself in and only I know what it has taken for me to get out (and am still trying to get through). I know I post in hopes that my story/my experience helps other women get through theirs because i know what having low self esteem, not loving yourself enough and having bad relationship habits has done to me. I fell for my xEUM for all the reasons that Aphrogirl mentioned in her post. He approached me in a very charming and delightful way. He came on strong and needless to say a friendship at work turned into a relationship (or what I thought was a relationship at the time). I was the other woman, I had an office relationship, I lent him money (in fact, he owes me money on 4 credit cards not to mention a car payment. Oh yes– I even purchased a car for him under my name and he is paying it off!) Oh, and did I mention that I married him? Oh yes… I married him to help him with his citizenship…. and yes while he was still living with the mother of his kids, yes while we were still having the office relationship and yes all the while me thinking that I loved him, he loved me and me believing his lies that once he had his papers fixed, once he had a car, once his kids were a little older once, once, once (insert excuse here) he would leave the mother of his kids (because he was supposidely so miserable with her). All of the above with me being a single mom to a 14 year old because I thought I was being so “kind” and “sweet” and “loving”. And all because I thought that this is what love meant and was. All of this because so many of us women (and men) dont really know what love really means……. and that love HAS to begin with loving ourselves otherwise, we get our selves into these messy, horrible, dysfunctional and hurtful relationships because we have no clue how to love ourselves……so how the heck do we would know “BAD” love if we dont even know what “GOOD” love looks like? Talk about an “ephiphany relationship” like NML says……. this was it for me!
Needless to say…. when I say you have to have patience I mean you really have to have patience with yourself. Besides all the fixing that I have to do in my life with me still being married and all the financial ties i still have to this man and with the fact that I work with him and see him every single day……. The ABOSULTE first thing I had to do……was to get right emotionally so that I could deal with all these things. That meant, detaching myself first emotionally from him so that I could later have the strength and the courage to detach myself from everything else that binds me to this man. I can tell you how much I wanted OUT and I wanted OUT of the whole mess IMMEDIATELY!!! I wanted to launch myself to another planet and start over and pretend that I had never reached this low in my life and that I had not been so naive and blind to have put myself through all of this. Because in the end… what was I left with? NOTHING! He has his car, his citizenship and a new woman to call his “other woman” who he cheated on me with (yes I was the Other woman to the other woman) (No he has not left the mother of his kids– and dont think he ever really plans on it!) and Karen was left with a marriage certificate, 4 credit card debts, a car payment to a car that doesnt even belong to her and the pleasure of being reminded of what a mistake she made every day when she goes to work, not to mention a husband you really wasnt her husband and in fact now needed to get divorced from! Talk about trying to get over someone while they are in your face!!! And talk about having almost every bad scenario that being involved with an EUM can be and all the “no no’s” of a relationship. I mention this not because I want anyone to sympathisize. I mention this because although that for me was rock bottom, I allowed myself to grieve and cry (and lose about 20lbs over how depressed I was) over losing my “fantasy” or what I thought at that time was “love”. I allowed myself to feel all the pain and the repercussions all my bad decisions and choices had caused instead of running away from them or trying to avoid them. And that sometimes, hitting rock bottom and having no one else to depend on but yourself is what jolts us into making changes becoming stronger and learning the lesson of loving YOU first.
I knew that my wellbeing had to come first. And so I have waited these past 6months before doing anything about all the other things that I have to take care of because I knew that as long as I was still attached to him emotionally there was no way that I could deal with talking to him every day and fighting about getting divorced, getting the credit cards payed… getting the car off of my name etc….and overall getting myself out of this mess that I got myself into. Many people ahhed and awed about this. Many judged and criticized me. Many told me I needed to get him into court ASAP! Well… tell that to a woman who still believes she loves a man has been discarded and betrayed and feels has been so hurt terribly. You cant! Because you are still vulnerable, you are still too “emotionally invested” to even be thinking rationally. You can only be ready when you’re ready. Thats why I realized that I needed to work through my pain on my own and that relieving that pain had nothing to do with my X in fact, getting away from him and NC was crucial if I wanted it to work (something I learned from this site
My first recorse was to remove myself from the very situation that was causing me harm to begin with– not to figure out a way to get closer or find an explanation..that would have to come later! So, I decided to focus on the things that I could change and that I did have control over. I truly loved my job and was not willing to give it up– so instead I would avoid his dept has much as i could (the harder route but I wasnt willing to give up my position). I would park on the other side of the bldg etc.. I set it up so that the only time I needed to communicate with him was when his payments were do (I was lucky enough that he was atleast responsible in that). And no it wasnt a phone call…. or me walking over to him during work. It was me sending a text message as simple as: Discover card payment due next week of $25.. please deposit into my account no later than the 12th. Did he “TRY” to call me… yep. Did he try to come to my office to “TALK” to me about it” Yep..Did he try to give me the “lets be friends” talk… absolutely! but It was all about self preservation at that point and so I didnt “allow” him access to me or my life anymore and didnt pick up my phone and “all of a sudden” had to be in a meeting when he came into my office. When I say do what you have to do to make it happen…. I mean do what you have to do but it certainly didnt mean that I “LIKED” doing it. Now listen……… it was heart wrenching pain to see him and to go through this..I loved this man..I believed and had trusted this man (regardless of how many will ask themselves how I could have) but i did. It didnt matter how dysfunctional my situation was had been or that I should have known better. The fact remained that I had done it, and that that is just how I felt!!! I could have sat there and psycho analyzed all the things that must be wrong with me to have put myself there to begin with…….but I only had “ME” to depend on and I chose instead not to judge myself and not to allow others to judge me…and focus on what I was going to do about it instead. That is power! That is strength and that is courage! I could deal with all my child hood issues and all the reasons why I could have possibly done this to myself later……first… I had to emotionally detach myself from my own addiction If I was ever going to be better! (I did also start seeing a therapist) See, much like the person who survives addiction to anything else… you never are really OVER the addiction……you just learn ways to deal with it and you work on it DAILY and you CHOOSE Daily not to give into it! You also surround yourself and arm yourself with every possible resource you can that will give you strength, encouragement, and that will support you through it. Am I completely over him or this situation? No…….. but i learned so much from it and from being on this site that I can never go back and I am determined to learn to love myself so that I never put myself there again!!!
It still hurts and if you want to know… I still feel “love” every time I see him…..but perhaps not love for him per se……but for the person that I had chosen to see instead…… and perhaps its not “love” but that feeling that Aphrogirl talked about that we think is “love”.
Either way— hang in there because it does get better. I dont really care that you are married, that you had an affair, that people may think it was a horrible, terrible, immoral blah blah blah………we know that already! I care about what you are going to do to get yourself out and better so that you learn from your mistake and hopefully this makes you into a better person which translates into a better wife, mother, friend etc….. We are all human, we all make mistakes, and your story will one day help someone else who stumbles upon this site looking for encouragement, a way out and not to be judged and feel worse than they already do. Ask anyone who has succeeded in something if they didn’t make mistakes along the way? You have to embrace them as long as you learn from them and use them to propel you into betterig yourself. Tell me, what good is there in pointing fingers, in telling someone that they should have known better and how could they? I for one dont think thats encouraging at all. I think you are trying your darnest and you do want out…. its just hard……but as long as you get up every day and you are willing to fight and you are willing to do something about it….. than you are on your way! With that being said, you have so much to contend with right now I wouldnt waste not one more single stroke of my keyboard or one more ounce of energy on trying to defend yourself on this site. No explanations are needed. This site isnt about that……..in fact you are fueling the fire and contributing to that energy when you do defend yourself. Just ignore the comments that you feel are not beneficial/healthy/helpful to you and focus on the one’s that do inspire/encourage and move you to want to do better…because that is what you need right now. I know I have learned a lot from NML’s experience. She made mistakes as well…she was the other woman at one point… (read her all her older posts to really understand her story) and I can only thank her for not only sharing her experience but turning her “mistakes” and her experience into something that is helping so many people. How could she have done it had she not gone through these things or if she hadnt had the courage to tell her story despite the fact that many would be quick to judge? You dont have to defend yourself or explain yourself to anyone. Everyone has the right to say or write or feel or state their opinion and you have the right and the power to choose to ignore those comments or allowing them to get to you…. again– take control over your healing and well being to get through this.
Wow this is long… so sorry! But wishing you and everyone else the best!!!
Karen,
THANK YOU! All I have been trying to convey is that I AM taking control over my healing and trying to get past this, and I shouldn’t have to feel like I have to defend myself, never thought I would have to on my site anyway. You are absolutely right. Your situation is huge and I can’t imagine what you are going through, but we do have similar issues we are dealing with. I love that you said you are having to deal with YOU first, before some other issues can be tackled. That is where I am at right now. It is just hard to ignore some of the things that have been said, which I have felt are taking away from my healing process and some of which have had nothing to do with my situation. Thank YOU!
Miserable:
I just read Aphrogirls post and what she said at the end. You may want to look into that a little. What makes us dysfunctional in one way can make us dysfunctional in others. You always have to check yourself and your reasons for doing things some that may not even be “conscious” to you. Those of us that engage with these types of men can have some underlying co-dependant tendencies as well. Its great to come here and get support/information/and encouragement but at some point you also have to remove yourself from the SUPPORT GROUP and the “supporting” and put those suggestions into play on your own otherwise, the support group itself or the “support” that you are getting becomes just another addiction for you and you become dependant on that. Hope you dont take that the wrong way…… but it is a good observation that she made and that you may just want to consider. Besides… you want to learn to empower and soothe yourself too and not always look to others to provide that for you. I know the anxiety can takes its toll and you want to run and post and find an answer — but once again…you have to make sure you are managing your anxiety and working on that as well. This is all going back to self esteem issues again. Just keep your mind open to that and consider that as a possibility and suggestion towards you not just healing from this situation but some other underlying issues you may not even be aware of. Aye Aye Aye…. its hard work and its not simple but you are on your way!
Karen,
You are absolutely right. Just because I am posting here doesn’t mean I am addicted to posting and not working on my issues, as you said, but I see where for some that could be the case. That could also be the case for bloggers who are through their situation and keep coming back for whatever reason. I have been dealing with my own problems and “soothing” myself. I was just excited about finding this site and talking about some of the “issues” I have had an exceptionally hard time dealing with. I am getting better every day, thank you for pointing that out. : }
Yabbi Yum.. i’m not quite sure how to say this, but here goes… RUN!!!!!!! He is lying, playing both sides of the field, and you’re right, you are the rebound.. My own experience and the experience of others has taught me that those things never work out. I have been on both sides. The first time i was his “everything” until she finally left him and never looked back, then he resented me. They did divorce but he was a bitter angry man and I was devastated. The 2nd time, 10 years later, he was in an unhappy marriage and I was the push he needed to leave. However, unlike the 1st time, i was married too.. We both left our significant others to follow the yellow brick road and after about 8 months the guilt kicked in on his side. I divorced my husband, i thought it the right thing to do, and he has since moved on.(it’s been 2 years). My ass clown who told me i was the sun, moon and the stars.. did not go back to his wife, no, he has another girlfriend and is still not divorced. He did exactly what i did not want him to do, I think I would have felt better if he went back. I’m in a much better place then him, but there will not be a 3rd time with men who aren’t available and as i like to call it.. “don’t have their head in the game”…. Your situation is heartbreak waiting to happen.. I lived it..
good luck
Hi there, just had to check in again after a while. Turns out that shit EUM is now dating his flatmate (female) who I always suspected he was really interested in. I think she was seeing somebody else when I first met him on the dating site,and he was clearly looking for a little bit of distraction. I gave him a great summer last year, and all the while he was waiting for her to become available.Thanks a lot, douchebag!!
I was with my EUM for almost years. He was so loving and generous when we were together, amazing sex life, wined me and dined me and was a total gentleman when with me. however, the relationship was stalled for almost 2 years where it was in the first 3-4 months.
In the fifth month of dating I caught him online-found his profile picking up other chicks and confronted him. I took the profile printout to his house the day he invited me over for a bbq. He in the beginning denied and I left him there and said, “call me when you are honest.” So, he did a day later and said he only wants me and that he “was not sure if I was still playing the field because we never had the “exclusivity talk.”
I fell for that BS. His behavior was still shady-going out some weekends without me, working late, etc. His job is sooo demanding that I believed it and he knew he cold use it as an excuse.
I finally after almost 2 years told him to “shit or get off the pot” and he said he needed time and that a break was in order. Two days later I pass by his house-2blocks away-and find a skanky chick in disgusting clothes on his floor- no class at all. And this is a professional man in health care. I was always classy, dressed like a million bucks, and respectful. He went from class to trash in a second. She got up and left when she realized who I was and he didn’t even stop her-he just lay on the couch like a pig.
He has txted a few times but I am starting to ignore. I do have a feeling that this sick EUM will try to come back in some cowardly way.
Reading over all of your responses it so sad. I was involved with one of these types of men and it is extremely difficult to move on even sticking to the ‘no contact rule’. My point of moving on was when after two years I saw him with a horrible looking girl! and I thought her and not me and then I thought exactly look at what he can pick up! and I moved on at last. These men are nothing special, nothing to offer any women or society as a whole. The whole point of life is to add joy to the world by being a nice person to others and to make your family and friends happy and leave this world a better place. These men create unhappiness, cruelty and negatively and contribute nothing to life because they are unhappy – obviously and no wonder. ‘If you feel no love, you feel no pain you feel no life’. These men are retarded humans inside a physical normal body. Infact I have a disabled child and she talks more conherently than the EMU I dated. Hope this helps …. honestly these men are wasters, useless members of society.
I have been reading these articles for a couple of months and I have also purchased the book. This is my problem I have been with a man for the past year. He lives next door . He is single and I thought was very interested in me. Well after a relationship of nothing but sex. I felt so empty inside and I wanted more from him. He never took me anywhere never met his family or friends. Matter of fact our neighbors did not know of our relationship it was as though it was a secret. To make a long story short. I caught him with two other women and living next door it was not hard for me to see them. I approached both these women and told them I was his neighbor and was having sex with him the night before. He told them I was crazy and not to believe me and they did. I asked him what I was to him and he told me I was just his whore. I must admit I got so angry when he did this I kicked him in the jewels and walked away. I am obsessing over him and I want to stop. I have had no contact with him for almost tow months. The problem is he is my neighbor and I can see who comes and goes. I want no contact with him. But seeing him in his yard driving down the street with someone else is testing me. Please ladies help me out . I want him out of my heart and mind
Jackie
Jackie,
This kind of situation does happen now and again. And the aftermath is tough.
It might come down to what you can accomplish in your life. If you can let it all go, and wish him well (at least, well enough to stay the hell out of your life!), you might manage to move on. There are a couple of things you can do. You can practice thinking of something else, immediately when you see him. Any time there is a delay in distracting your thoughts, figure out why, and then why thinking about him is a mistake. Practice, every time you see him or thoughts of him cross your mind. Have a couple of alternate crafts or strategies – maybe sing a favored song. I kind of like Trick Pony with Pour Me. Amazing grace, or Leapy Lee’s Little Arrows. Carry a notepad, and every time you need a distraction, work on a shopping list – with meal plan for the next month, schedule of calories by food class, etc. Whatever it takes.
Because if you can’t isolate the space in your life that he still occupies, and stay out so that it is replaced, gradually, with the rest of your life – you might have to move to find a happier place in your life. This is unfair, and wrong – and yet you might find it empowering, too. Make all plans carefully, and involve trusted friends in deciding what to do.
Remember that you cannot gossip, you can’t go into details, or share your emotions about the dis-jeweled clown. Because that is time you spend rebuilding the memories and issues that keep you from moving forward. Besides, nothing good comes from gossip.
A lot of this just takes time. Other parts take calm and reasoned planning. Unlike a kick to the jewels.
Brad K.’s last blog post..Book: Judge Judy gets tough on romance
Brad,K
Thank you for your advice. I am not going to leave my home and move away for anyone. I will tell my mind to stop and start thinking of something else other than the pain this man has given me.
to be honest when I cry I feel I am crying for myself. I need some one to hold me and tell me it is going to be O.K. and I know that the only per son that can do this is myself. I feel like I am empty inside and I know it will take time to heal and soon find the person I use to be. When I see him in his yard with or without his new victim. I must remember the pain and disrespect he gave me when I gave him my love. I know I am a wonderful person I just have to dig deep inside and find her.
Jackie
Miserable Love,
All you want from him is an apology? For what? He thinks he is perfect. I will tell you this from experience. Everyone thinks that if after invoking the NC rule, they will feel SOOOO much better if their EUM would contact them. Well, I had one(actually, more than one) contact me after a very long stretch of time. No what? It made me feel worse! You see, everything that I was embarrassed about the things that I did, came flooding back to me. It simply reinforced the fact that I was truly used, abused, and for awhile, too stupid to realize to what extent this fool would take me to. Yes, I had the responsibility to wise up, but once you deal wih it, hope like heck you never hear from him. Trust me, it will NOT make you feel better.
Jackie
i am at a point now where i can not get any lower with my feelings. I have two wonderful sons. I have my health, I work out five times a week. I own my own house. I am good looking women. Why am I hurting so bad over this man that has been so cruel and uncaring. I am blessed and I feel like my life is just fading away. I have tried so hard to pick my self up. When I feel sad I sing a song, listen to music, work in my garden any thing to occupy my time and mind. When I am done doing these things I sit down and cry my eyes out. When I cry the hurt in my chest is so deep if feels like I can hardly breath. I listen to everyone’s stories and know that we are suffering or have suffered. I just want to smile and feel peace inside of me. I am tired of meaning so little to these men. Sorry for being so gloomy it is one of those days.
Jackie,
Your feelings are your response. The depth of your feelings will also affect how much you hurt if you are betrayed and deserted. You experience the pain because you attached so much of yourself to him.
In a healthy relationship, a deep and loving bond is wonderful – and the foundation for a lifelong companionship. When your mate-prospect is defective – EUM, bozo, dumber than dirt, no character or respect or honor or honesty – you get drama instead of nurturing, you get heartache instead of fulfillment. A successful relationship has to start with picking someone suitable. The reason? Shoes don’t stretch, and men don’t change. If the character isn’t there, then you end up over-reaching yourself. The natural and healthy responses of empathy and caring and learning this new member of your home – instead bind you into a catastrophe of pain, waiting to strike again and again as he leaves, and returns, and disrespects you, and . . .
Your hurting is part of the body’s natural response to bringing new people into your life – bonding. Adapting your body rhythms and chemistry to accommodate this source of pheromones and hormones you start exchanging with on a regular basis – exchanged breaths, touching, etc. Then, when you lose him, even if by your choice, your body as well as your heart go through withdrawals – what we call grieving.
The pain has nothing to do with whether he is worthy. The amount of pain is set because you tried, you cared. And you haven’t yet reached the peak, and begun to move on, to replace attention you now spend on questions and about the past. Distraction and deliberately refusing to maintain the drama, the wallowing (everyone gets a few days, that is a given and needed part of healing!) – the despair – is a matter of saving the rest of your life.
According to a teaching book, Tools For Teachers, adrenaline (just one example of hormones!) takes 28 minutes from the time it starts to affect your reactions and thinking, until it has passed and no longer affects you. The book recommends “short circuiting” the full brunt of the adrenaline attack, which can take a couple of minutes to peak, by immediately taking a calming breath. You will still be jazzed for the next half hour – but affected to a much lower degree. In a classroom, the kids *will* get under your skin. You maintain a healthier, better learning environment if you avoid letting natural and righteous anger affect the kids that don’t happen to be involved at the moment. Just knowing that you can help manage your own anger – even outside the classroom – is immensely empowering.
And that is what I am suggesting for you. To take that calming breath, that momentary timeout, to break the crest of the pain at a much lower level. To practice avoiding the sadness by limiting it’s effects.
Grieving, losing someone, is tough for everyone. Though you want to be held now, consider how very vulnerable you are, how much risk there is that someone you pick out of physical needs – won’t be someone would make a good partner. “On the rebound” is one of those strategies that get passed around grade school. Don’t be one that keeps that sad statistic alive.
Blessed be.
Brad K.’s last blog post..br: Dignity and choosing a partner
Brad,
I am 59 years old was married for 19 years to a very abusive man.He beat me with his hands and abusive language. I am now single for 19 years. Not one but all my relationships have been horrible. All have been so uncaring and no feeling for my pain. As usual I would end it and grieve and sink into such dis pare wondering why God did not let these men understand how much I cared and that all I ever wanted from all these men is love. I know it is because of my child hood. Both my parents were abusive alcoholics and at a very young age I can remember trying to make them stop fighting and drinking. As a young girl I use to sit in my closet for piece and quite and wonder what I did wrong because if they loved me they would listen to me and I would stop crying. My tears I cry now hurt so much more than when I was a little girl. I just can not get it wright . I am worn out . The pain in my chest has become an old friend . I want God to put his light into my heart. I have for years tried to find his light and I am so tired of searching.
Jackie
Jackie,
I swear to you, there are good people in this world. Truly. And I hear what you say about having abusive people, and finding that those you take you your heart repeat the sober now, under the influence later pattern; I married an alcoholic, for a short time.
NML writes consistently and constantly, about how change is needed to break the cycle of finding yourself in bad relationships. The first step is to stop looking for a companion to give you peace, security, and the good parts of what your home, as a child, meant to you. The first step is to find yourself, your self esteem, your core worth.
God knows you, and loves all of you. That doesn’t mean that you fully understand yourself. At any age, there is need to look within, often with the guidance of a counselor or wise friend, to find what is best and brightest, and what there is that identifies with and seeks out the kind of people that have been instrumental in forming us – our parents.
You already recognize that there is a similarity, that we tend to choose partners that remind us of our parents, and tend to take on the values and reactions of our parents or important role models. For those from happy and healthy homes, that unplanned passing down of values and traditions enriches lives, preserves cultural heritage, and gets young people well started on a successful home.
For others of us, we have to undo parts of our past. We have to find, from somewhere else, a balance, an understanding that character is something other than what we grew up with, that respect and discipline have a different meaning. That tolerating and nurturing and caring for a mate *has* to start with a healthy companion-candidate, and we have to value and nurture disciplined and respectful, honorable behavior on our own part.
As your life has shown you, many people find themselves in a marriage or relationship with abuse and disrespect, despair, and ridicule, and aberrant behavior influenced by substance abuse. And they think nothing of it, they never questioned that this is “normal” – or less than they deserve. The presence in nearly all communities of battered women’s shelters does little to break the cycle in the rest of the community, to inform those involved but unreported that are in like circumstances.
You might look for NML’s writings on self esteem, on how we attract an emotionally unavailable or abusive kind of partner because there is something in us that understands that kind of relationship, and actually looks for signs that a person might be the kind of partner we . . . understand.
So the second step will be to learn which signs and signals you look for in evaluating a guy for someone to get closer to. Because some of those indicators are really danger flags, someone to avoid. Does he smile when he sees you? That is pretty safe.
Does he isolate you from contact with your friends and family, to keep you “all to himself” – that is seriously nasty, not romantic. A couple, a family, is a unit of culture within the community. Much of the success of being a couple will be how you interact, individually and as a couple, within your community.
Are his friends respectful of each other and others that aren’t part of their group? This is a biggy. Respect, feeling responsible for recognizing and empowering others, should be the automatic reaction, not reserved solely for those that “earn” respect. We all learn that some people cannot be trusted, that we dare not respect all their words and actions. Remember that even the village idiot has a tale to tell, that we might learn from.
So the second step is character. Find it within yourself, and demand it of those around you. Avoid those that don’t have good character, or you will find it impossible to improve; this is a slippery slope. It may feel arrogant, or bewildering at first, to care about someone’s honesty or honor, or whether you can believe and trust the words they say, and that their actions will say the same thing their words do. And it will be scary, finding that you need to avoid some people because their lack of character is a danger to your happiness. Learn to recognize and respect character, and choose people that will be good to know, people of good character.
If you want a better relationship, decide up front that you are looking for a mate-prospect, and avoid all the perpetual daters. After a few years out of high school, most of the guys you will find where they serve alcohol will be looking for bed partners, not life mates. You will need to look elsewhere for the good men that have stopped “shopping” for a valued companion. Finding and getting good men interested in a shared life is more work, but probably not as bad as it seems right now.
And you might check out resources for children of alcoholic parents, al-anon for those with alcoholics in their lives, and also check into resources that the Salvation Army or a local battered women’s shelter might offer.
The sun is still shining. You just have to step out from under the clouds, sometimes. Luck!
Brad K.’s last blog post..Book: Judge Judy gets tough on romance
Brad K,
Thanks for all your input. I must say very well put. I sometimes think I am by polar. Today I feel good my heart is not weighing me down. I hope this is a sign of accepting the fact that again I gave myself to a man that in my opinion is emotionally dead inside. I know what I think I want from a man and that is love and respect. I am messed up because I know what I want and I am really afraid to get it. I want a man in my life but I do not know if I will ever marry again and give my whole self to someone. I guess I want my cake and eat it to. What is really sad I sometimes try ti imagine being in love with a man and sharing the rest of my life with him . But then I start to think that he will want to control my life and I will begin to suffocate.Tell me Brad K how can I stop this vicous cycle I am in. Picking the wrong men and being afraid of the ones I know will give me what I want. I know I am not crazy just very damaged.
Jackie
Jackie,
NML has written lots on how to manage the problems you face.
Read her articles on boundaries. Boundaries set your expectations, and guide you when to accept or reject various behaviors. If you set appropriate boundaries, say, for respecting others, for keeping your word, for basic hygiene, for never running out of money (adjust plans before the money runs out; no one likes surprises), then you know when you run across someone that you can’t depend on, that won’t be a good mate-prospect.
He keeps going on about prior relationships? That should be a boundary. He should have worked through the ties to the past before meeting you; simply not talking about other women in his life is an even bigger boundary issue – the only woman he should have in his life is his mother, maybe daughters. And *not* as intimate companions. If he hasn’t worked through his issues yet, he cannot be considered to be suitable. If he ever does work through them then you would have to consider the person he became – waiting is not an option. Consider anyone still working on issue from the past – maimed. Someone to pity, but don’t take him home to meet Daddy. And don’t snuggle with someone that is too maimed (emotionally, from his past) to be functional *right now*. There are plenty of chicks cruising bars looking for sex adventures to entertain him for a week or two.
Boundaries give you the confidence to proceed. You learn what you can accept and what you will reject – learning the rejecting part is the truly empowering part of boundaries.
Also read on self esteem. For the most part, you should never think that what you want isn’t attainable, or that you aren’t worthy of the biggest and highest dreams. Learning to value yourself as a person, learning to take command of your life, learning that you can and do take care of yourself so that you aren’t dependant on someone else for happiness or basic needs – these prepare you to find and hang onto a good partner. And to share lives, knowing that you give as much and as well as you receive.
In high school and grade school all we really knew about “relationships” was that there should be a wedding, and the rest was mostly about sex adventures. Since then, we have been able to look around us, and notice that mates have responsibilities, and that homes are about security and comfort, as well as intimacy. Often we have examples of aunts and uncles, neighbors, parents, that we didn’t realize at the time, were giving us the tools to be mature mates and share our lives in building a home. Not all of us paid that much attention to the mundane aspects; the Bud Light commercials and fashion and Cosmo all seem to keep dwelling on the sex adventures. Bars and clubs all make their buck by keeping people dating and circulating. And that doesn’t lead to happy shared lives.
Some communities, families, and faiths still encourage people to marry. And many people have seen that instead of being old fashioned, mating with someone invested in a rich culture and respected in their community can be satisfying. Those looking for the excitement of sex adventures, lured on by fashion, by beer and tobacco ads – wonder why they get drama and excitement, instead of comfort and dependability.
Jackie, I think a couple can make a go of a long term relationship. I think the chances are immensely better, if they realize that in building a home, they build a small unit of some culture. If they choose each other with community and cultural values, and character, in mind, if they come together with the intent of interacting, as a couple, with family and community, I think many couples could be embarking on shared lives that need never end. When either partner sets their goal to be intimate but not to change their lives, with no intention of sharing lives, then you have what I call a perpetual dater instead of a mate prospect.
Boundaries should help you choose a likely mate prospect with confidence and eagerness. Self esteem should reduce your worries and fears to manageable size. Good friends (of character!) and family will be invaluable in choosing good values and goals.
Blessed be!
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