When you’re averse to saying and sticking to NO, you have longstanding negative associations with it and boundaries, which means that when you’re faced with the prospect of having to decline something, it builds into Dynasty levels of drama in your mind.
You imagine them being slammed into the wall by the force of your ‘rejection’. Often, from the moment there’s a hint of NO or conflict, you’re already wounded and unbeknownst to you, have begun adjusting your behaviour to protect yourself or to ward off potential conflict.
You imagine them feeling bad about themselves. This is because you can’t handle hearing NO so you imagine that everyone else can’t either. You make a judgement about you when you hear NO instead of judging the situation.
You imagine people thinking badly of you. You often think badly of people who have said NO even if they had legitimate reasons. You also might associate getting a NO with the assumption that they must think badly of you if they’re saying it – not everything is about you.
You imagine the sky falling in. This is because when you experience NO, this is how you feel.
You worry that if you say NO, that no one else is going to say YES. There can be this assumption that you’re being asked because otherwise no one else can do it. I know it’s nice to think you’re that special, but really, you’d be surprised how many others will say YES to boundary crossing…
You worry that if you say NO, that someone else will say YES, which will then make you wonder if you were wrong for saying NO. Your NO isn’t good enough for you. If someone else would say YES to the same thing, even if it’s the sh*ttest thing you’ve ever been asked to do, you invalidate your boundaries and your judgment.
You worry that you’re being rude even though the other option is being a doormat. This indicates a fundamental problem with having boundaries – you believe that it’s rude to decline something or have limits.
You worry that you’re burning a bridge that’s actually already burnt. This is why so many people are collecting exes and shady friends like dusty medals and junk cluttering up their home – you’re keeping them as a just-in-case-you-might-need them (or they you), or just-in-case-they-decide-to-spontaneously-combust-into-a-better-person-in-a-better-relationship.
You worry that saying NO means that you’re not being helpful or compassionate, or even empathetic, even though saying NO is actually often helpful etc to both parties if you’re prepared to look beyond the short-term. Just look at Hollywood as an example of why hearing YES all the time is incredibly dangerous.
Your brain plays tunes from your Greatest (S)hits Collection in advance of the prospect of saying NO. “You’re a bad, bad person don’t you know?”, “Maybe You Should Have Said Yes But You’ve Effed Things Up Again By Saying NO And Now You Deserve To Be Unhappy”, “You’re So Rude (I Bet You Think This Song Is About You), and other such tracks.
Most of the drama from saying NO or the prospect of it, is in your own mind. NO isn’t a dirty word.
If you have a poor relationship with the word NO, it’s time to nurture the kid inside you that wants to sulk, tantrum, or retreat due to feeling like you’ve had love withdrawn or been judged as being unworthy. It’s also time to recognise that limits aren’t a bad thing. There can be this reluctance to deny yourself or others, even if doing so is actually for the greater good, because you associate limits with being denied things that you want and think you should have. Next thing you’re thinking “I’m not going to deny myself anything like the way my mother/father did when they wouldn’t do X,Y,Z.”
You may have learned that NO creates negative consequences, either in childhood where you’ve become nervous of conflict, criticism (even if it’s constructive), or experienced punishment, or in adulthood where you think you think you lost out on a relationship because you wouldn’t participate in a boundary busting situation. If your boundaries were violated in childhood, you may never have learned that it was OK to say NO because you had basic human rights ripped from you.
However you’ve arrived at this juncture of being afraid of saying and sticking to NO, as a fully-fledged adult, you are entitled to own your right to say NO. Helplessness isn’t going to help you and as many can attest to, saying YES when you really mean NO isn’t going to help either.
If you don’t learn to say NO you will become a prisoner of giving negative YES’s – agreement given, not from a genuine positive place but out of fear and sometime’s or even often, a hidden agenda of trying to bend people to your will by always saying YES with a view to ‘collecting’ at a later date.
NO doesn’t always or even very often mean rejection; it means you want different things.
It means whatever is being proposed doesn’t meet your needs.
It means you may not be able to meet their hopes and expectations and that saying YES would be misleading and create far greater pain than the result of saying NO in the short term.
It means this isn’t good for you right now.
It means that whatever is being proposed doesn’t work for you in that format but that if it had been in a different format, you might have said YES.
It means that you have other things going on that take priority – that’s not about them; your priorities are your priorities.
It means you’re busy.
It means you don’t want to do something for whatever reason, and you know what? That is your right and you actually don’t have to explain why and justify yourself. Write down a list of everyone you know and ask yourself how many of these people run around justifying why they say NO – it won’t be many, so why are you?
It means that it’s not workable because it would make you uncomfortable and go against your values – it busts your boundaries.
And sometimes it just means NO.
People say NO because of themselves just like people say YES for themselves hence whichever one you choose, do it for you for the right reasons.
Write down a list of people who you’re afraid of saying NO to. Do they say or demonstrate NO to you? Yep! It is amazing how often the very people who have no problem busting up your boundaries, have their own that they have no problem enforcing.
Just like decisions, if you say NO and then don’t stick with it long enough to affirm your right and decision to say NO, you’re never actually saying NO – you’re saying a delayed, flip-flapping, knee-jerking, YES. You’re also teaching people around you that you’re full of hot air which gives them the blueprints to eff you over.
I’ve learned to say/show NO because even though I sometimes get anxious about it, it’s nothing compared to the anxiety and gut wrenching ache caused by avoiding NO. Try to say NO without justification, especially for stuff that would leave you being treated without love, care, trust, and respect. Other people with boundaries would say NO to it, just like others without boundaries would say YES – don’t opt for the path of least resistance.
Experience has taught me that 9/10 times when I experience anxiety about saying NO, it’s unwarranted. The rest of the time I can handle it. So can you. I would never have discovered this if I’d continued to say YES to screwing myself over – I’ve had more pain and anxiety from saying and showing YES than I’ve ever had from saying NO.
If you don’t learn to say NO, you have no objective, balanced place to say YES. Being a doormat isn’t sexy – learn to say NO and mean it.
Your thoughts?
Check out my book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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There were big negative consequences for saying no in my previous relationship. He would withdraw, or imply I was stingy or unsocial or unspontaneous. I got confused about whether I was saying no authentically or as some kind of rebellion.
In the aftermath of this very long dance, I fall into believing that I passed up all the love and togetherness that was on offer. I go over and over the times I didn’t stay over or say yes to some event or didn’t give him some object of mine he asked for. Why couldn’t I have been more fluid? I think about these times and I’m not sure if I was authentically protecting a boundary or if it was a power struggle.
But I really do castigate myself for specific instances when, if I had said yes, I wouldn’t now have to wonder if by saying no I destroyed the relationship.
Late in the game I realized he was disinvesting, and I consciously decided to say yes to everything. This didn’t work, and the distinct message (subtext) I got was “too little, too late.”
I go over and over the years — when was it not too late to say yes?
Ixnay
All I can tell you is that I said yes to everything and it made no difference at all, other than to perpetuate my misery and pump up his ego to the size of a planet.
As a general comment on this topic: It has been my experience that saying yes to everything with the ex EUM had him eventually behave with the most astonishing shamelessness and gobsmacking self-assured arrogance as he went about pissing all over my life (metaphorically speaking) with the most astounding assumption of entitlement. He was very assuming when I met him (I noticed this and did nothing about it), and it only got worse.
Of course the moment his boundary busting behaviour was pointed out to him, even by the smallest hint, he ran away, went NC on me (!!) and didn’t come back until I intimated that it would be safe for him to start pissing me about again from where he left off. Aaarrrggh. It still makes me mad.
thanks for replying, Fearless.
I really torture myself with this stuff. Get to a point of being distraught. I have lots of emails from him warning me that I’m choosing to be alone instead of having a nice relationship, and I think, o god, what have I done. Was I unavailable and got it all backwards? Was I saying no out of good boundaries or out of petulance and spite?
Of course then the tables were turned and I had your same experience. Saying yes and it was never enough; learning to never ever object lest he punish me with coldness.
I feel like I will never figure out what happened and how much of it is down to me and how much is just who he is, with anyone.
Ixnay
I feel for you. Don’t worry. This too will pass. You don’t say what kind of things you were saying ‘no’ to, so it’s difficult to guage from this end of your posts. However, from what you do say about him its clear he is EU – the silent treatment the blowing snow in your face if you so much as motioned, in thought, in word, or in deed, an objection to his behaviour/selfish agenda. All very familiar to me. I can tell you that this kind of poor relationship behaviour is down to him. You tolerating his poor relationship behaviour is down to you. That at least, after many months of painful searching for answers, is my conclusion about my relationship with the ex EUM. I blame him for his behaviour. I blame me for putting up with it, inviting it in and then encouraging it.
His EU-ness is not about you. I think we actually figure in their behaviours hardly at all. We certainly have no influence over them, so there was nothing you could have done, or not done make good of him. Yes, they are like this with everyone, not just us. As Nat says, they have danced this dance many times before, and will again after we’re gone. I can also see that I have danced this dance before (though not in such an entrenched situation – the ex EUM really took the biscuit), so that my own (hitherto unbeknown to me) EU tendencies were my own downfall. It was all so inevitable, given that we were two EU people when we met. Me the typical female EU, him the typical male. We were a catastrophe waiting to happen. If the dynamic of your relationship was anything like mine – I guess it’s a similar picture. I too would have had serious problems if my ex kept emailing me telling me how wonderful we could have been. That kinda stumps me cos mine would never do that – not in a cold day in hell. That would be more my (pathetic) style.
Apologies, am rambling now off topic.
The “No” in No Contact is a very clear “Hell, no!” to whomever you have cut off. I’m thinking about that today… Last night, the one I’m NC with for a month called several times and sent several text messages saying things including “Please listen to what I have to say” and “Remember when I said us is what I want” and “Don’t do this. You and I should be together” “Just you and me. Fuck everything else” “I’m calling this one in for real”
Channeling my inner NML, I know all he’s really saying is that he’s trying to alleviate his anxiety and get his fallback fix and then he can blow hot for a hot minute before reverting to his AC behavior. I’ve known him over 6 years – first as his gf before we broke up and I became his fb last year – and it’s just so completely unlike him to beg in any way, shape or form that it gave me pause and made me feel a little cruel. Not enough pause to take back my “Hell, no” or forget his cruelty, though… Also, he did not do this last time I went NC for 2 months but maybe he realizes this time I mean “No.” Or, maybe, he just had some other action last time to distract him. Blech. Whatever. Sticking to my “Hell, no!”
Thank you so much NML and the rest of you here.
FX
you don’t say if you spoke to him on the phone but I’m thinking pah to his text messages (and his calls too, actually). It’s like telling a woman ‘I am so serious about regaining your trust and convincing you of my sincerity that I am going to send you some texts messages tonight which I expect will persuade you that I am now putting in sufficient effort to make me worthy of your love, your care, your time and your trouble. Meh.
Exactly! No, I did not answer his many calls or texts. I haven’t spoken to him in about 5 weeks. I have no doubt he does miss me and does think he can get me back without much effort… I let him get away with outrageous crap and kept going back again and again for more. I’m sure I haven’t heard the last from him.
In reference to some earlier comments about power struggles in relationships, I know I shouldn’t feel this way, but it is nice to have some power and control for a change!
FX,
It should feel nice because when you give all your power away it’s a great feeling snatch it back again! Good for you. Stay firm.
Thanks Fearless. Yes, it is great to be in control of access to me and not under his thumb.
I think I’m concerned it’s wrong to be thinking about and enjoying his tone of desperation. I never expected him to react this way since he never did before. Unfortunately, now, part of me is wondering if this suggests he could change in time when he realizes I am truly saying “Hell, no,” when I know I should be thinking “too bad, so sad, you had your chance to play nice and just because you want your fallback girl back or even see the light, you aren’t entitled to a reset button or do over.” In any case, I know I should be focussing on me, and his pursuit is a distraction. (Just FYI, I can’t change my number because it’s my work phone, too, but we’ve rarely emailed and he’s not on Facebook or anywhere else online so he can’t keep tabs on me. He may just show up at my gate, though, and give me another “No” opportunity!)
FX
I was going to let it go, but since you mention it …
He doesn’t miss you in the way you want him to miss you. It’s not like I missed the dog and was booking my flight halfway round the world to see him (yes to see a dog) when he died. I was actually going to get off my lazy arse to DO something about missing him. Granted, I couldn’t have sent him texts but he was a good dog who respected boundaries. I think he wouldn’t have been impressed by a text even if he could read it.
I don’t know what handbook these clowns are using – my returning ex/MM sent me very similar texts as well, hundreds in a month. But in the end, they are just texts.
I very strongly advise not trying to get inside their heads (having spent three fruitless, depressive years trying to get inside one of my ex’s heads) but I know we can’t resist: The texts are likely triggered by (with thank to Mr U and the FBG): He’s suddenly realised you’re not pursuing him and this causes self-doubt. Instead of saying to himself WHY AM I AN ASS? or WOW, I’m an ass I really should leave FX alone now – he’s poking you for an ego stroke. You stroke, he disappears again; or he wants sex – ex used to text me while he was watching porn (who said romance was dead); he’s fallen out with his current squeeze; or he’s had a problem at work; or he’s feeling a bit bored or lonely; or he’s a bit drunk; or for that five minutes/half-an-hour/maybe even a day he’s feeling sentimental. If he genuinely wanted to get back together would he not do what has served people well for generations – see you in person? Mind you, even though I’ve got back together with exes who bothered to see me in person, the relationships still didn’t work out. it takes more than feeling bad/rejected/horny/lonely/sentimental to make a relationship work 2nd time round (or 3rd or whatever crazy no. we manage to get to).
The purpose of NC is not to prompt them to change. The fact that he’s texting you this flowery nonsense only proves he hasn’t. Change is a hard long fight, even for those who want to change. I kept in touch with an EUM for over 20 years and he didn’t change one bit (though the women switched in and out) despite endless therapy.
He doesn’t miss you, he doesn’t want you back (other than for an ego stroke and/or sex) and he hasn’t changed. Yes, he might change, but that’s a longshot…
agh, sorry
.. and when they change they want something new, not to go back. I’ve changed,and I know I’ve changed because I don’t want to go back. Going back is the HALLMARK of EU. It’s how you know you’re in an EU situation – it just won’t fekkin end.
Nuke him.
Grace, Thanks for the great thoughtful response! Yes, I did know what he said didn’t mean or change anything which is why I didn’t answer his calls or reply to his messages – and won’t in the future. I was just voicing thoughts here where it’s safe. And, yes, the one time I attempted NC before, he did show up in person after several weeks. I knew it was a bad plan to start seeing him again under the circumstances because nothing had changed but I wasn’t really ready to go cold turkey yet. He was on very good behavior for a hot minute and then it and I was a hot mess most of the time and I was constantly hurt/angry until I went NC again. This time I know this is just the way it has to be for me and it’s not paralyzing me the way it did last time I was NC. Of course, after 6 and 1/2 years, I still think about him and what he did/I allowed that bother me way too often but I am focussing my energy elsewhere as much as possible – work, getting out to Meetups and such – and cutting myself some slack, too. But, I’m not going to be treated without care and respect by anyone again and he doesn’t get to have access to me no matter what he tries.
I don’t know what handbook these clowns are using – my returning ex/MM sent me very similar texts as well, hundreds in a month. But in the end, they are just texts.
They are using clownbook, clownmessenger, and clownmail.
Oh, and don’t get me started on walking and talking facebook and twitter feeds. blergh.
“Try to say NO without justification, especially for stuff that would leave you being treated without love, care, trust, and respect.”
Oh hell YES Nat! When I broke things off with My Final Assclown, I found myself saying, “Well, errrr, no I can’t be your friend now that we’re no longer seeing each other because you’ve done a, b, c [insert example of straight-up, non-ambiguous jackassery].” What the heck would have been wrong with saying, “No, I will not be your friend.”? In my experience, in 99.99% of open and shut assholery cases (one of my favorite terms ever used on this blog – for serious) they KNOW they’ve behaved badly, so don’t waste your breath and your time explaining why you don’t want someone who is a jerkoff in your space.
In the US, we had a long running anti-drug campaign that had the earth shattering slogan “Just say no.” While whoever wrote the slogan was talking about actual crack, but it applies just as much to drama/relationship crack, am I right?!
So true Natasha. I also love the ‘open and shut case of assholery’; it’s a cracker, though I like your ‘jackassery’ now too. I’ll be pinching that!
I agree with all you said in your usual entertaining fashion (I always look out for your posts!). See when my ex open and shut case of assholery wanted to say ‘no’ to me, he did, with the sound of silence. He didn’t attempt to justify it or explain it; he made no apologies for it; he simply dished it up like it was a form of communication. And he was right. It is a form of communication. I heard and understood the sound of his silence, loud and clear. And I think that’s all these open and shut cases need to hear to get the same message. Ignore all requests for ‘friendship’ from an assh*ole. They will get it and they will get it very fast because you’ll be speaking their language.
I was looking at some of Natailie’s videos on youtube (I seem to be having a BR-fest this week!) when I came across this lady in the link below talking about the ‘silent treatment’. It caught my attention because, as I said, my ex would literally cut me off as if I no longer existed whenever I asked him any question that made him uncomfortable or when I tried to discuss the ‘relationship’. I remember saying to him – (emailing him, more like, because it was the only way I got to “speak” about what I wanted to speak about) that I felt voiceless in the “relationship”. I complained about that a number of times. He ignored that as well!
I hope I am not straying too far off this topic of ‘no is not a dirty word’, but what astonishes me now is that I did not say ‘no’ to this treatment; I often did exactly what this lady in this video says we are not to do: I’d get very upset, react very badly and emotionally and text/email him back again and again, furious with anger, complaining that he was ignoring me, thinking that I could appeal to his conscience (!). He’d ignored me. And then I would feel he was probably justified in ignoring me because I was acting like a crazy woman… and once I’d calmed down in a few days or weeks, I would feel embarrassed by my ‘crazy’ pleading behaviour and so apologise to him. WTF!
Every time I revisit my experience of that relationshit (it’s never far from my mind) I am astonished, yet again, to find it was even worse than I thought since the last time I looked! I so wish I’d been reading Natalie and all this other material I now read when I was actually IN the fuc*ing mess. Jesus.
Oooops. Here’s the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8D4XiSYqmU
(((Fearless))))
I hear you. I feel like we’re going through the same thing, the same stage, about a similar experience of similar duration.
My own experience is, how can you say no to the silent treatment? When I discovered that reasoning, appealing, yelling, and cajoling had no effect, I tried the silent treatment back. I discovered I could not beat him at his own game. I was filled with panic because *nothing* was going on. I would cave and press the reset button myself, sweeping the original issue that had elicited the silent treatment under the rug.
The thing that amazed me was — *he was not afraid to do things that would alienate me* — he was not panicking and concerned about my feelings and “us.” He had full assurance that I would be there if and when he chose to show up. Meanwhile, he focused on his life, work and social.
Pattern: Bad behavior from him, confrontation from me, total withdrawal from him. Standoff. I wait for an apology, something. I panic, I call, He says, breezily, “Oh, there you are! You never call me.” I say, “But I have called you! It was you not calling me!” Him: “I’m tired of your games.”
If I held out too long, that was when I got emails rebuking me for being a bad and neglectful girlfriend. I never knew if he believed that himself or if it was a displacement/manipulation tactic. The emails often told me of something fun he had just done without me, sadly saying, “You would have loved it but of course you have chosen not to be part of my life.” And I would say, I have not chosen that! I would have loved to come! You didn’t tell me about it *in advance.*! And he would say something ominous like, at this stage of my life I want a relationship that doesn’t require all this complex maneuvering; it either works or it doesn’t. Other people have no problems making plans with me.
And I would be SO CONFUSED. Wasn’t it him who was shutting me out and then taunting me? Or was it me, churlishly refusing all the fun and love on offer? But where was the sweet spot to access that love? I constantly seemed to miss it.
The overriding sense was that I was being punished. For something really really bad and deliberate. But what had I done? Under his reproaches and glibness, i sense he was very very angry with me. But wasn’t it me who had cause to be angry with him and not the other way round?
I feel like…
I feel like I will never understand what happened and never forgive myself if there *was* a lovely relationship on offer I was somehow pissing on.
Oh, I wanted to say, that in the reading I’ve done on boundaries and deflecting manipulation, you’re supposed to do something like this:
Me: It’s important to me to be able to talk openly and honestly when we have a conflict. I feel hurt and abandoned when you completely withdraw. If you continue to give me the silent treatment when I want to resolve our conflicts, i will reevaluate my desire to stay in this relationship.
I can’t imagine that working at all with these men. Mine might have said, “You think that’s some kind of threat? Knock yourself out!”
I actually snorted laughing while drinking my tea and reading this – thanks Ixnay!
I have a query, perhaps BR readers could answer. Just for reference –
WHAT IS THE NORMAL ROUTE for a break up? You know, the non-NC method?
If the latest guy I am seeing doesn’t work out (hmm, the one linked to the AC) I’m wondering what I should do. I guess I am just a bit dazed – should I cut off ex dates that haven’t worked out but aren’t assclowns and EUMs? hmmm…
It just depends on the situation. Some people just don’t call back and you don’t call them and they disappear.
Yesterday I told a guy his situation is incompatible with my relationship goals (oh, HAI, your wife of 13 years just moved out a week ago???) and he said, “well, where do we go from here?”
I simply looked at him, and stayed silent. He said, “How about we just let this dissolve into the ethers?”
“Sounds good…Let’s do that.”
He was super nice and I had a hard time saying outright, “No, I don’t want to see you again,” but it worked itself out.
Fortunately, it was only date 3 and I started asking questions when he mentioned ‘the ex’, and I had kept my boundaries firmly in place (which he noticed and remarked how good I am with boundaries, lol), was quite aware of a few yellow flags and how quickly they came up, so no big investment. My intuition had pretty much told me it was going nowhere and I really only even gave him the chance for dates 2 and 3 based on advice from friends, against my own better judgment. Gentle lesson learned, moving on.
If you are already worried about it not working out and how to prepare for it, you may want to check in with yourself whether you are being honest about this guy as a prospect. Yes, he is independent of the ex, *and*, there are at LEAST 6 *billion* other people on the planet who have NOTHING to do with him, is there really any reason to even go NEAR the cesspool? In my opinion, the further removed, the better.
TOA,
Here you go: “We are not working as a couple, baby.” (Told to me by a text)
“This is not working out, sorry.”
Anyway, although I think in person is the most polite, I did have an ex-bf tell me that he prefers over the phone bc the last ex-gf chased him around town with a gun. I tried to meet with him to “do at least the break up right” (the situation was that I told him he was unavailable and he admitted that, told me I was not asking for anything unreasonable, but he was not able to deliver, and we agreed to split), which, I think, was my attempt at reconciliation, hoping that he would finally see how awesome I was (ehm, no comment on that one), but it was just awkward and I only cried harder when he stopped the car and just basically did not even stop the engine and let me get out.
So last night I met with the guy I’ve been having an NSA relationship with for 4 months, and basically asked him how he felt about this whole arrangement. What the long term consequences might be (feelings getting involved, things getting messy, etc) and how long he thinks this would last. I told him I was starting to develop feelings. I asked him how he felt, where was his head at? He said that he hasn’t thought about it at all, but now that I’ve brought it up he will. The entire conversation was so INCREDIBLY painfully awkward, and I could tell he was totally uncomfortable. I felt really awkward trying to express myself and bringing it up, and after leaving kind of regretted it!!! I know I’m crazy.
I guess the status quo becomes so comfortable you don’t want to do anything to disrupt it, even if it’s for your own good. However, I knew my self-esteem was taking a huge dive, I was starting to feel really empty after our meet-ups. Reading this site made me realize I needed to save myself and the remnants of my self-esteem while I still could and bring it up. But should I have even had the conversation to begin with? I feel like maybe I should have just sent him a text and ended it cut and dry, without an explanation and go NC forevermore. BUT I also felt like I wanted to have a conversation face-to-face, that it would be more respectful than just sending a text saying, “I don’t think I can see you anymore” and that’s it.
Oh God! Why is ending even the most unhealthy of relationships still so hard!!!!! I’ve flipped back and forth from feeling really good today about having finally brought it up to see where we stand, to feeling really sick to my stomach. I wonder if I’m just dragging out the break up. What is the best way to end an EU relationship?????
Malaise,
It’s done now, you should feel good about yourself for taking action, whatever form it took. On the plus side, now that you had the conversation you won’t have to wonder whether it could have been something more “if only” you had told him your feelings. You put it out there and got confirmation from his “I haven’t thought about it” answer that you’re right to be rid of him.
Malaise
“He said that he hasn’t thought about it at all, but now that I’ve brought it up he will.”
Firstly, no he won’t think about it. A least not in the way you might be hoping. More to the point, if he hasn’t given all of this a moment’s thought, why are you fretting about how to end it ‘respectfully’. If he’s not bothered his arse, why are you? (these are rhetorical questions) End it any way you like. Ending it isn’t about him.
I am curious: What is an NSA relationship? Sorry for being dim!
Hi, Fearless . . .
NSA relationship means “No Strings Attached”.
I had to “Google” it because it was kind of making me nuts, too. Initially, I thought it might mean “No Sex Allowed” but then realized that – nah – THAT didn’t make sense !
Kind of a sad indictment on our times, too, because it was the very FIRST item that Google returned from the “Urban Dictionary”.
Or . . .
No Straight Answers
Or . . .
Nothing Special Actually
Somebody STOP me , please ! ! !
malaise, I think the question you need to answer for yourself (and inquiring minds!) is, if you are actually interested in and available for a relationship, why are you having an NSA non-relationship with someone to whom the thought wouldn’t even occur to have a real relationship with you? I had all kinds of arrangements with men when I was younger that I wouldn’t consider now but they were mutual as I was EA/just in it for fun or whatever, too. What did you really expect or want from this?
NSA = No Sex with Assclowns
Malaise,
Sorry, but there really wasn’t a relationship, as it was NSA.
Can I ask why you got into a FWB situation?
I tried like you to end my “booty-call-relationship” for several years, and I went to NC couple of times, but AC always dragged me back with his promises etc. I tried to date other guys in order to forget him, but he was always in the background. It’s never worked out with other guys, as my AC was always in my mind: “more sexy, intelligent, successful etc” This time I decided to change my pattern – just disappear and change my phone number as he did in the past! I met him two weeks ago and spent night together, he said that he wants to spend Easter with me, I said that I could not make it. He send a message: “OK” That it. It’s made me realised that he does not give a shit if I come or not, that all his promises about “future” is fake and this time I should do his way and just go NC. I have to say, I miss him, but I have to let him go, I already wasted four years of my life:-( This is my way to end EU relationship Malaise!
Ladies, ladies, ladies! I’m gonna have to revisit this booty call thing because these tales are out-ra-geous! A booty call for several years? No booty call situ should last for more than 1-3 months and that’s pushing it. Do anything over a period of time and it becomes a habit which affects the mind – you will grow attached. Next thing you know, you’ve got relationship ideals when really, you’re getting attached to someone who treats you like an unpaid hooker. I don’t care if he’s Idris Elba – there is no penis or sex in the world that is worthy of reducing yourself to being dialalay. Sex is not a currency that you can negotiate a relationship out of. You start out booty or you reduce down to booty, you stay booty. Any man, any person in fact, that would put you in the position of shagging you and having you basically attempt to convince them into a relationship, is *not* the one for you.
Thank you Natalie for your comment, yes, I felt like unpaid hooker when I was with AC. I thought I had a “relationship”, but after reading your posts I realised that I was in “booty-call-relationship”!!!
I went to a psych to ask about my relationship once and those are the exact words he used: “he is treating you like a whore”. But, but, but… uhm, yes – twice a week for three hours (yep, a curfew was involved).
He said that he hasn’t thought about it at all, but now that I’ve brought it up he will. The entire conversation was so INCREDIBLY painfully awkward, and I could tell he was totally uncomfortable. I felt really awkward trying to express myself and bringing it up, and after leaving kind of regretted it!!! I know I’m crazy.
ONE SHOT and then FLUSH! Works like a charm and also builds your boundaries and self esteem. I saw someone random ONCE. Next thing I know, they are offering me breakfast. Then when I get home the texting begins – ‘I had a good night, can I hope I can see you again’ to which I replied, ‘yeah, only was meant to be a one nighter as I get attached and look for commitment’ so this guy started to BLOW HOT (so predictable!) ‘oh, yeah, I’m happy to help out anytime’ (whatever the hell that means!) and then after that ‘oh I’m in a meeting today, soooo bored, falling asleep’ and after I had made it clear that there would be no more – more texts came in (hilarious) ‘Hey I know you said you weren’t interested but I’m taking my mother to the airport tomorrow and blah blah blah …. I was thinking we could have a movie and chill and sleepover’ I know what you said but just thought I’d ask anyway.
I mean SERIOUSLY, this came up on Assclown radar as boundary busting bigtime and I activated TOA’s ‘Customs and Border Control department’ (thank you BR, installed it earlier this year works be-au-tifully) which meant *ZAP* *FLUSH*. It was hi-la-rious, silly bugger a week later texted AGAIN total border crosser – oh, I see I’m blocked apparently, oh well… as if this was like ‘well, I KNOW you’ve blocked me but here is your last chance to sign up to my great assclown deal’. Ha! I didn’t even bother to reply! FLUSH!!
When you have one nighters you are seeing Mr Unavailable. It’s DANGEROUS. Keep it one night and then OUT. I don’t care how amazing they work or how big their c*ck was. FLUSH!
My AC was waiting for two months before we got intimate, so it was never one night…We went for the drive, restaurants, cinema, but after all that it’s became only sex, his or my place:-( He was saying: “Why waste time, when we can enjoy each other”. I loved him and I could not resist!!!
Oh God! Why is ending even the most unhealthy of relationships still so hard!!!!
What is the best way to end an EU relationship????
I think it is hard to end even unhealthy relationships because we aren’t healthy ourselves and ending it means looking and addressing our own issues as to why we were involved in the first place, and if our self esteem is low we don’t think we are capable of healthy relationships.
It is so true the best way to end the relationship is to be direct that it is ending and stick to no contact, and ignore all contact from their end, any contact afterwards only says my words and actions don’t match and I still want you in my life.
Good luck
The best way to end it is to notify that you want out, it’s not right for you or not working for you and then say AND WE HAVE TO STOP SEEING AND CONTACTING EACH OTHER. Don’t say ‘Let’s be friends’.
Then FLUSH.
And then move house and change details if you have to.
I thought I could handle a no-strings-attached or friends with benefits arrangement, because at first all I wanted was some good sex, and am not at a point where I’m ready for a long term relationship. But over time the sex starts becoming empty if you feel like the other person could give a rats a$$ about you. And eventually it starts messing with your mind. And I guess I felt like sh*t that he didn’t want anything more from me after certain period, and stayed longer than I should have hoping he’d all of a sudden care about me legitimately, instead of as just a good lay.
Right now I’m just full of ALOT of regret. It’s truly awful. I should have ended this months ago, or better yet not gotten involved in the first place. A warning to anyone out there who thinks they can handle a no-strings-attached relationship. You’re better off having a one-night-stand to get your kicks than deal with the mindf*ckery. I don’t know how these men can be so detached, like seriously not care one iota. It’s kind of depressing.
Have you ended it now Malaise? The best way to deal with the regret is to stop it getting worse and start to move into a better place from today. I had alot of regret about not ending it sooner but never had any regret about walking away when I did. Alot of pain from the loss but never any regret.
It’s true, if you stick around any longer you will only have more to regret. We all make mistakes, but you’ve recognized that you’re not happy in this situation, did something about it, and now you can walk away and move on. Try to be happy that you stood up for yourself, rather than regretting that you didn’t do it sooner.
Malaise,
I made a similar mistake (no sex though). Friends with benefits -ANY benefits, not just sex, is DANGER territory. It’s like ‘operate as a relationship in every way except name’. You are like a store throwing open it’s doors and giving everything away for free – you invite vandals to come and ‘take what they want and leave’.
If you want to have sex and not have a relationship, this is a valid thing. Not everybody wants to be or can be in a relationship, but might still want to have needs. One night stands or sex venues may be options – don’t use your friends for sex, it’s messy. But remember, there are A LOT of unavailables that are pushy and will try push the envelope and turn a random one nighter into a regular with coffee/breakfast/dinners/parties – STOP. There are posts elsewhere on BR that describe on how to do one nighters etc – have a read of those.
In fact, when you do one nighters, you are seeing Mr Unavailable, so you must have boundaries of extreme strength to make sure that you DON’T call afterwards and DON’T hang out and DON’T do anything. One shot, then OUT.
Dating is the route to a relationship. Any other approach – CUT!
Good work P! Glad you can see what’s going on & acknowledge & validate yourself. We, as the ones in these situations, know deep down inside when something is not right. Our families though (sometimes or often even) cannot be relied upon for an objective reality check. That’s the beauty od BR. Everyone here is struggling with the same issues (even though the details may differ). Wishing you well. x
Teachable,
Thank you. I so needed to hear this.
Fearless… your feelings ARE valid. But you are the only one who can validate them. Just because someone doesn’t agree, it doesn’t change a thing. I’ve learned to quit asking others to approve of my feelings. Its none of their business and just makes a mess.
loj
Yes, I know my feelings are valid and I don’t think I need or ask people to approve of them or validate them for me; but it does piss me off when people attempt to invalidate / dismiss them as unjustified. I do know what you’re getting at though. Thanks for your comment.
It is over. But I feel like I’m having a melt down!! All day I’ve been overcome with sudden panic attacks and been sick to my stomach, I wish I’d NEVER told him I had feelings for him. I feel like such a FOOL, and worse that I brought all of this on myself. I can’t believe this….
malaise, Please don’t beat yourself up. The bottom line is the status quo of your non-relationship was not working for you and was not making you feel good about yourself so you took a risk to make yourself feel better. He wasn’t on the same page. Now you can choose how to live your life honestly with that knowledge. The alternative was to stay silent and continue engaging in behavior that met his needs at your expense. Trust me, if you ignore your needs and accept less than, you end up feeling worse and more devalued.
Making yourself vulnerable and being rejected sucks. It can cause serious anxiety for anyone no matter what the situation. Why should you feel like a fool for being honest with yourself – and him – and taking a chance at being authentic and not feeling empty? And, who cares what he thinks of you at this point? Something is not better than nothing if it means you have to sell your self and your feelings out. Reading NML – and time, of course – will help you work through the pain and anxiety and see that, however this ended, it is in your best interest that it’s over.
Malaise,
Oh dear. I feel for you. You know, the problem here isn’t that you brought this up with him, the problem is that he does not share your feelings, that he does not want the same relationship as you. – he doesn’t want a relationship! He wants easy sex and all the extras that come along with it.
You feel as if you’ve just shot yourself in the foot and have gone into panic stations? I used to feel that when I “brought things up” with the ex EUM and he punished me by effing off and not contacting me until I agreed, tacitly, to stop making trouble and have the non-relationshit that he wanted to have, on his terms.
Malaise, if you back track, retract, contact him and continue to see him be completely assured that what you will be doing is signing up to his terms (NSA/FWB/easy shag… and all the rest), and you will be forever fearful of raising the subject ever again. You’ll feel powerless. Read Nat’s current article on controlling the uncontrollable, read as much of Natalie as you can – the books if possible (also open Nat’s wee video on the page here – it’s very insightful!). Calm down, get your head in reality. It’s only been a few months of a non-relationship. Now is a good time to pull the plug. You deserve better and you have done nothing wrong – he wants a relationshit with you that is disrespectful and demeaning to you. Say NO thanks. You are not a free of charge prostitute. Let him know that you are worth more than this – more importantly, let yourself know you are worth more than this before you really do have something to regret. Good luck.
I know I shouldn’t feel like this, but it’s overwhelming! I can’t stop rewinding our last conversation in my head, how sick and shattered I felt, the worst blow I have ever felt in my life. Then the regret, and the sick feeling overcomes me again.
“You feel as if you’ve just shot yourself in the foot and have gone into panic stations?”
YES!!
Reading your posts though is helping me calm down, I needed to hear those words. THANK YOU. Thank you FX, Fearless, tired of assanova, everyone, and Natalie especially. I don’t really have anyone to turn to for advice.
Fearless … doesn’t it though? I am amazed at the number of people who don’t know how to validate others or the importance. When I remember this it takes the sting out.
It scares me how so many people can’t let go and say no. SO MANY of my friends remain ‘friends’ with their exes. It’s like they’ve turned their lives into the museum of dead relationships or dead ex society.
SERIOUSLY. Why can’t people just say no? I was having a conversation with a mate over coffee, and said that I’m not friends with any exes and that I let them go, and they were actually shocked. SHOCKED. What has the world come to? Am I going crazy?
Yr welcome P. Kudos goes to yourself though for doing the work & being honest with yourself
Treat yourself. You deserve it! x
PS Peeing myself laffing @ NML’s last post in this thread!!! The unpaid hooker thing is EXACTLY what I said to the xAC!!! He’d fly in from interstate, play nice to get a free place to stay/egostroke/armchair counselling/sex & then fly back interstate where he would treat me like ABSOLUTE SH*T until the pattern (much to my own embarressment) would repeat (until I recognised his form & put an abrubpt stop to it). I actually said to him, ‘what do you think I am? A holiday resort with a free hooker service??!!’ Seriously! He *had* to be effin kidding right? (he wasn’t – groan) Thanks NML – your insight is GENIUS!
I personally think a period of NC after ending thi gs respectfully is good form TOA.
PS I actually LOL’d at clownbook & it’s merchandised spin offs. That was just too darned funny!!!
Ixnay – WE DATED THE SAME GUY!!! Well, prolly not, but they displayed the EXACT SAME BEHAVIOUR & we experienced the exact same responses to it. I reacted as you did & could never beat him at the silent treatment back (after texts & emails explaining what a jerk he was!) I don’t do the silent treatment to ANYONE, romantic or not, which is prolly why I could never maintain it (read: I am not an abusive).
It was EXCRUCIATINGLY painful though & my xAC was WELL AWARE of this (as in a previous post – he tried to entice me to SUICIDE using this as well as more overt tactics ie once told me to actually go & kill myself knowing I was suffering major clinical depression due to serious physical health issues at the time & indeed having suicidal thoughts) THIS, was my first big WAKE UP CALL with my xAC. I then started researching ‘silent treatment’ & discovered it is considered to be THE WORST FORM of EMOTIONAL ABUSE. The academic literature re violence against women describes silent treatment as a form of torture & ‘psychological murder’. No wonder I was suicidal!!! My health issues caused the depression but HIS EMOTIONAL ABUSE was pushing me over the edge (almost – literally)!! I never did attempt to take my life (being the responsible type, I instead sought immediate counselling & crisis support). I also have ZERO history of any sort of mental illness or psychiatric problems. I share this with you all as a warning. The silent treatment is not just a tool of manipulation but a serious & deadly form of abuse. If someone is doing this to you, please GET OUT – FAST. These idiots are not worth your life!!! Indeed in the moment, when all this was happening I realised that killing myself was EXACTLY what he wanted. What better way to silence the ONLY woman who knew the WHOLE truth about his disgusting AC ways & by this, represented a threat to his multiple OW because he knew I was about blow his cover sky high?! Ughh. Talk about TOXIC.
ie the above is the ultimate conclusion of the ‘lovely relationshit on offer’ you possibly were pissing on / missing out on. Imagine if it had been YOU who developed depression due to unrelated physical health probs (which can & do happen to anyone) & getting the silent treatment in response to it? Consider yourself to have made a LUCKY ESCAPE I say!!!