1. A friendship with a hidden agenda is not mutual or a friendship. Friendship is platonic, so if you try to be friends with your ex when what you’re really doing is re-auditioning for your ‘old role’ or even trying to upgrade from ex bit part player (read: booty call or friends with benefits) to the lead role, not only do you have ulterior motives which in the wrong hands will be at best taken advantage of and at worst abused, but you will put yourself in a very imbalanced and precarious position that will mess with your head and your life.
You won’t truly be able to forge a friendship with an ex until you’re over them. Unless you want to put yourself through all sorts of agony, put ideas of friendship on the backburner and have some healthy space from one another.
2. Eau de Desperation isn’t attractive even when the relationship is over. You’re not that desperate. Really. If you’re going to be friends, do it authentically, not because you’d rather have them on some rather than no terms. It’s like grasping at straws, sometimes pubic ones. When you’re inclined to make judgements about yourself off the back of Other People’s Behaviour, hanging onto the dodgiest of friendships after a breakup is a way of feeling less rejected – stop seeking a rejection retraction. You will only end up feeling worse and this is a time for you to be nurturing you.
3. Friends don’t try to eff you, eff you over, or to eff with your mind. I’m not foolish enough to think that in the first month or so after a breakup that you might not have “…one last shag for old times sake” or see each other at a wedding or wherever months later and have a “drunken one-off”, but an ex pulling The Friend Card and then tapping you for a shag as often as possible, tapping your for money or for an ego stroke behind a new partner’s back, or playing mind games with you? Er, NO.
They’ve taken the first letter in ‘friendship’ and run in an entirely different direction.
Sex with an ex can seem like the easiest option as it’s ‘familiar’, ‘comfortable’ and let’s be real, ‘easier’ than going out there and having to put in all that effort for a ‘new’ person, but guess what? When the sex is over, you’re still an ex. Also – and you’d be surprised how many fall for this – the fact that they want to shag you or you’ve shagged doesn’t mean you’re getting back together!
Let me tell you straight – if an ex wants to get back together with you, they won’t pull down your pants first.
As for being screwed over or them pulling some mind f*ckery on you – rest assured that if someone pulled all sorts of rinky dink behaviour on you when you were together, they will do it to you when you’re apart. Don’t give them any room in your life. Stop trying to understand them and stop giving them chances – unless you go around screwing people over and being manipulative or even narcissistic, you will never understand them.
4. Friendship is a two-way street. If all you’re doing is graduating from doormat in a relationship to doormat friend, it’s time to stand tall and gather up your self-respect. If you’re chasing them down to be friends, stop. You must understand – the great majority of people play The Friend Card after a breakup. It’s the polite thing to do and at least one of you will feel like less of a heel, and one of you will feel more hopeful than you should.
Don’t go from a non-mutual relationship to a non-mutual friendship.
5. Friendship is organic. Please.stop.forcing.it. I hear the most painful stories of readers practically beating down exes doors to demand the friendship that was ‘promised’. Just like you cannot force someone to do something as basic as pick up the phone, to make an effort, or to commit, you cannot force friendship and why the hell would you want to? And please don’t do the “Oh well when I say that I’m friends with someone…” or “Well I do this and that when I’m a friend so why don’t they?” – you and they are not the same person. Don’t lose your dignity by trying to make people do as you would. You have different values – it’s probably why you’re no longer together…
Let it be – if friendship with an ex is going to happen, it’s not going to be because you kept orchestrating ‘opportunities’ for it.
6. Never be friends with an ex to give them the ‘opportunity’ to treat you better. This isn’t The X Factor where you offer up a wildcard. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that because they don’t have the pressure of a relationship that they’ll act better – you are setting yourself up for a fall. Put your energy into yourself.
7. Evaluate where an ex that mistreated you fits into your future. How will you introduce them to a new partner? Don’t you think it will be a bit odd when you say why you broke up? The friendship will convey all of the wrong messages about you – you can tell a lot about someone by the company they keep.
You do know that people are suspicious of those who claim they’re friends with all of their exes, don’t you? It’s like collecting trophies that say “I’m so special, all of my ex’s want to stay friends with me”. In the small print it says “…and slip me a shag, an ego stroke, and a shoulder to lean on”.
I’m all for staying genuine friends with exes, but if you tend to harbour feelings for them and have been slipping them a piece, it’s time to cut ties as you’re unavailable for an available relationship.
8. You’re not really friends when you’re practically stalking them. Checking their Facebook profile as soon as you wake and trawling their mutual friends? Hanging around outside their favourite places? Putting up fake profiles on dating sites? Texting and calling all the time, even when they don’t respond? Stop. It may be a good time to spend some time with a professional, especially if you feel like you ‘can’t’ stop and it’s impacting greatly on your life.
9. If you’re maintaining a ‘friendship’ with a view to keeping them as a rainy day option or out of fear that your old ‘investment’ may be snapped up by someone else, you’re like a dog in a manger; you don’t want them but you don’t want anyone else to have them either. It’s also like keeping guard so that you can say “Oh thank goodness! They really are no good!” This is not friendship and the worst thing is, if you’ve ever been with Mr or Miss Unavailable, you hate being on the receiving end of this.
10. It’s impossible to let go and grieve the loss of the relationship, if you’re still holding out hope. A ‘friendship’ to stem the loss, will delay the inevitable and possibly make it worse. Accept that it’s over first before you go down the friendship route.
If you’re going to be friends, it can wait a few months until you’re in a better place.
11. Friendship is more than a word – it’s a sum of consistent and repeated actions. If you’re not treated like a friend or you’re not treating them as such, someone is going to end up very hurt and disappointed. Ensure that you don’t have relationship expectations and be prepared to walk if they treat you in a less than friendly manner.
Be a very good friend to you first so that you are best placed to make healthy choices about who you invite into and back into your life. Even when you’re in a relationship, you should always be a best friend to you that you can rely on – it’ll prevent you from selling yourself short.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1092 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Some guys want to remain friends in order to seem like they are SO nice, even their exes want to be friends with them. It’s part of their persona, carefully constructed in order to further their agenda – with other people. It has nothing to do with the ex they claim to want to be “friends” with. My last ex was so heinous to me that one of my friends nicknamed him Prince Albert – because he’s a giant dick that’s not quite right in the head, you see – and yet, he claimed he wanted to be “friends”. He acted like a Prince Albert towards me after the break up just as much as he did before the break up, and then seemed really surprised when I refused to talk to him again. He left me alone for a year, which was nice, but now that his new girlfriend is hearing stories from our mutual friends about his dodgy behavior toward me, he is back to trying to be “friends” – because it would look good for this poor sucker. Uh, no. Once a Prince Albert, always a Prince Albert. Peace out.
“one of my friends nicknamed him Prince Albert – because he’s a giant dick that’s not quite right in the head, you see–”
Oh my gawd, that’s oh so bad, and oh so good. Ha ha ha. Wow!
And agreed about guys wanting to be able to say they are besties with the exes in order to prop up a false image as All Around Good Guy. The last guy I was with, who turned out to be a stealth polyamorist, was always nattering on about kindness. Well, he chose not to do me the basic kindness upfront of letting me know he wanted multiple partners, so once I found out, I chose not to do him the kindness of being friends after I broke things off. I was NOT going to give him the satisfaction of being able to say to others, or himself, “Well, hey, we just wanted different things, but it’s cool, we’re still good friends.” Nope. He gets to explain to whomever is interested that he got dumped, hard and fast, end of.
Actually, he won’t explain that. He’ll just say – and believe it himself – that you must be crazy if you didn’t want a sweet, kind guy like him. And seem genuinely confused and hurt that he, in all his amazing glory, was somehow not good enough for you. I’m saying this having had the pleasure of hearing from a guy I broke up with that if he wasn’t good enough for me, nobody would possibly ever be good enough and I will end up sad and alone. Yes, really.
Meh. Fuck ‘em. You and I have better things to do with our lives than actually care about what the Prince Alberts of this world do – we just have to filter them out of our lives as quickly and as completely as possible and keep looking for, and finding, the genuine, sane, decent and compatible people to spend our time with. They are rare, but they are out there! Hey, even I found one.
I broke up with my ex about a year ago, but we did not officially “end” things completely until about 3 months ago. I eliminated contact with him for 2 months to give me space to heal. My ex recently contacted me expressing his desire to be friends. However, i’m not sure what to do. During the two years that we spent together, he was a great boyfriend. We ended the relationship mainly due to compatibility reasons. However, after we broke up we continued to string things along until the point where I felt he began to change and I began feeling used, mistreated, and disrespected. While I would not characterize him as an assclown, he definitely was not the most respectful (sleeping with other women, despite telling me that he would not, lying to me, disregarding my feeling, being cold etc). I was hurt by his actions and don’t know if i can trust him again. He was a good boyfriend when we were together, but a semi jerk while we were breaking up — should i hold that against him and refuse to be friends? Or is it my own fault for not establishing proper boundaries after we broke up?
i had similar experience( i have feeling that the reason you two have broken up was also very similar)…and even though we have to take responsibility for allowing them to bust our boundaries, that doesn’t mean that we should not hold it against them. it is not ok to be a jerk or semi jerk…and what makes you think he will not pull the same tricks yet again..? i wrote on different post last week, after i met up with my ex, after long long time(way longer than it is for you)..and it proved all natalie has written here- espc rule 1. you can not be friends if you still gotta feelings/hopes( make sure 100% you do not, because otherwise it will hurt as hell when he starts telling you about his new life or new gf.. and rule no3.- guess what, even though he’s got himself a new gf he still tried to get me to sleep with him( busting my boundaries yet again)…and even though i managed to say no,..the whole thing- meeting him was a bad bad idea and it left me’ with a very bad taste in my mouth’.and a bleeding heart…do not risk it,,do not try to be friends with him, do not give him another chance to string you along on false pretext of friendship,, stay strong.. and go nc completely,, this is exactly what i am doing now
I had to reread your answer a few times as You seem to have different Points in there.Some Good,some bad about this Man.
It would seem to me that you did Not End things,by your owm statement “we strung things along”.What he had was a pass to sleep around,turn cold,lying,as in his mind your were both not committed.
Of course you would feel used,You were,and I am sorry for that.
You said you ended the relationship due to compatibility issues,The way I see it,it would be the same as a freindship thing to.
This man is causing you pain,so dont go looking for comfort from your pain source.
You still have feelings this is apparant,hell I still do after 7 months,but I can tell you that I can NEVER be freinds with the ex Narc that I dated.
But I had to go NC for my peace of mind,even tho he was the one who dissapeared after 6 months if dating.
I see things very differently know about men,not all but some…
I wont be freinds with anyone who does not respect me,my time,my beliefs,etc….
If my opinion,NC is the best way to go to heal and move on,If after some time and your feelings have gone for this person,and You still want to be freinds,thats your choice,but I dont think that at this time,You would be doing yourself anygood.
Please come here and read,study,This has become almost my Bible so to speak.
You will get the answers to your Questions….
While I would not characterize him as an assclown, he definitely was not the most respectful (sleeping with other women, despite telling me that he would not, lying to me, disregarding my feeling, being cold etc). I was hurt by his actions and don’t know if i can trust him again.
What is SO special about this guy that you MUST have his dodgy friendship? Can’t you make other quality friends?
He’s not an assclown? Say what? Screwing other women, lying and not caring about your feelings make a good friend in your books? Is that your ideal friend – someone who doesn’t give a damn and couldn’t care less? Your relationship is over, and this guy is coming back for second helpings while ready to contribute nothing!
This is an open and shut case of assh*olery! Act like it and FLUSH him!
Ok, so here is my take on this.
While he may not have been an AC when you guys were dating, and then you dumped him, and then after that you guys had this long and messy stringing along breakup– you still can’t be friends.
Not because he’s the worst of the worst, necessarily. You dumped him, fair and square. You have your reasons, they sound COMPLETELY legit to me, and if you felt like you had to, you had to. And him reacting like that– it doesn’t take away from what you had, but it was definitely disrespectful. Out of hurt and anger, he acted foolishly, and while you shouldn’t hate him forever– if you feel you can’t trust him, there is just no point being friends. You don’t have to hate, but there is no genuine friendship possible after that kind of relationship. Sorry, it sucks, but that’s the truth.
The problem is, in my opinion, that it takes more than 2 months of NC to deal with that. More than a few years, if you want my honest opinion. And when you do get “back in touch” after all those year, it’s a nice “hey, how are you? My life’s different, yours too, lets smile when we pass each other in the street and stop to chat, and then get on with living our lives” kind of thing. As it should be.
Not all relationships are meant to last, not even as friendships. And from my experience, once it breaks, it’s broken.
Hi Everyone,
I need some opinions and thoughts please.
Im going through this whole “friendship” thing right now. He dumped me again, for the third time after we got back together in October. This time his reasons were that he had trust issues with ME (?) and that he didnt think he could be in a monogamous relationship, and if we were to stay together I would need to be ok with him *ucking other women.
He pulled the friend card everytime he broke up with me before too. But this time he did it, even BEFORE we broke up. ” Its really important to me that we stay friends, because a life with you in it, is a much better life to have.” His words exactley. Two days later he was gathering up the members of his harem for dinners, and coffee. Women he didnt talk to while we were dating, were suddenly, coffee dates, and dinner and drinks dates. I have to admit I accepted the friendship card, being that my self esteem is so bad from being in this emotionally abusive relationship in the first place that I was worried that I wasnt going to be able to get thru a day without a “text fix” from him or at least some kind of validation from him.
We have been texting (the majority of the last three years of communication with this man has been thru texts..all day, every day. even though we saw each other a few times a week, while we were still together.)
He was very good at the future faking. Promised me that we would live together, have a happy life, everything would be great, then two days, two months, two seconds, WHATEVER later , he would change his mind. The entire 3 years.
Heres where I need an opinion or thought..firstly, yesterday, he suddenly changes his email. Then emails me to let me know. He changed it to the “cute” name that I would call him while we were making love. Then tells me that gmail just didnt have any other options for his name. Secondly, the email he sent me, was full of how awesome hes doing, and at the end he tells me that hes looking for another property in the suburbs to buy and fix up. Hes a contractor and builds homes for a living. This was a blow because, the whole time we were together, he knew thats what i wanted. Was for him to build or fix us a home, it was also something that he future faked and told me we would do one day. SO my question is, …was this a deliberate attempt to hurt me? yet again?…
I have now decided to…
HSN, this man sounds horrendous. Please stay away from him however much it hurts. Natalie wrote about ACs – the deliberate ones and the unwitting ones. This one sounds like he gets a thrill from emotional abuse to me. I know it is hard but don’t let him hurt you any more. That stuff about wanting you in his life is bull shit. Of course he does. But what does it matter if he doesn’t want to treat you right?Block him and flush him. Grrrr this one has made me particularly cross!
I’ve had a couple of men say “I want you in my life” It sounds good. But they were both screwing other women.
It means shite.
If he wants you in his life he can effin marry you.
(Not that you should marry him, he’s a serial philanderer/abuser).
Grace!You are so right!
Polly,I too was upset after reading this post…
These frickin assholes who yes DELIBERATLY hurt women piss me off…Kinda makes you wonder how they were raised and what the hell happened to then so bad that this is how they treat poeple…..
love your comments grace,,ha ha it is shite isn’t, would vomit in his face if i hear again: want you in my life/don’t want to loose you/will always love you/ or the one runner girl mentioned to me last week-we belong together- and all the similar bs they say when they want to string you along
Whether it was a deliberate attempt to hurt you or not, the net result is the same: you got hurt. And this guy has repeatedly shown himself to be a source of pain for you.
Who cares what he wants, or why? I know it’s tempting to go around and around in your thoughts, trying to make sense of it, but the bottom line is, he’s not adding anything positive to your life. He’s not a friend. Kick him to the curb for good, and make room in your life for REAL friends, and eventually, a real love partner.
No Contact is your friend!
HSN, to put it mildly…he sucks. I was jerked around by a guy for 5 years and I’d be going on over 6 if I didn’t go NC. Believe me when I tell you, cut it off sooner rather than later! I still will occasionally get pathetic texts from him saying that he’s planning on buying a house, life is so great for him, blah, blah. Here’s one of the many mind f*cks with guys like this and the one I was involved with: If he’s ditched you, why is he getting in touch to talk about things going on in his life that have nothing to do with you? Answer: He’s an assclown. There is no winning with a guy like this – it’s like trying to sink a jumpshot while someone keeps moving the basketball hoop.
Its really important to me that we stay friends, because a life with you in it, is a much better life to have.” His words exactley. Two days later he was gathering up the members of his harem for dinners, and coffee. Women he didnt talk to while we were dating, were suddenly, coffee dates, and dinner and drinks dates.
Top line: ASSCLOWN
Bottom line: *FLUSH*
He didn’t sign the deal, or if he did he reneged on it and offered a substandard deal. This guy is EUM and very ambiguous. You deserve much better – is this what you really want and your ideal partner? Someone who doesn’t want you, isn’t there and has a playboy fan club of women?
Act like it and FLUSH him!
Ignore the words – look at the actions, HE IS AN ASSCLOWN!
Hi Ladies…
Thank yo uso much for your responses. I now know that his email was a purposeful dig at me, trying to hurt me and make me pay attention. I realized that this break up has been much different than the past two over the last 3 years. Im not running to him, constantley calling him, texting him, doing whatever I could to make sure I knew what he was doing, and with whom, at any given time of the day. Turns out, that doesnt work. Because while we may have talked everyday, over the last three years, he was most definitley not being honest with me about things. When we got back together this past October, he admitted to sleeping with and dating other women, while him and I were broken up, (we were still sleeping together,and the only reason I asked if he was sleeping with others, was because I wanted to know for my sexual health..he lied and said he wasnt.) and he also admitted that he had slept with a 19 year old girl. (hes 34) although, I suspect that happened at a halloween party, AFTER we had gotten back together.
Anyways, point is…im not chasing after him. Im not responding to his emails. and after yesterdays, “im buying another house to fix up’ email, i didnt respond. Well, it must have bothered him. Because, today i got a email from him saying, that he hoped i knew he was joking in the last email, when he called me a ridicuous nickname, and hoped i wasnt offended. Im pretty sure its just an attempt to get me to respond to him. But, just like he told me once, “you can email and text, but i might take a couple days to respond if im busy”. So Im taking my time. Ive actually decided to go NC. I dont want to put myself in the path of more pain. Which is clearly what this AC dishes out. Heres a question for you ladies…can i write him an email saying,…Ive had time to think, and i now realize how horribly youve treated me. Theres no way that we can be friends because I dont want to go thru anymore pain? (im already on anti depressants and contemplated suicide 2 years ago bc of this situation). ORRRR….do I just GO NC without getting out what i have to say and telling him what I think?
Thanks again Ladies!
HSN
HSN
No email. Definitely no telling him your situation. Get behind your decision and stick with it. A lot of this confusion is coming from your end. Stop your part in it.
Go NC.
By not responding, he will get the message.
Lastly, please always use protection. Is any man worth dying over!
HSN OMG can i relate. But no email. Use Natalie’s unsent letter guide to get your feelings out. This guy will only eat up any further effort and attention you pay him, even if you say negative things about him. It only validates that he has had enough power to make you angry. I know it sucks and it seems it would feel great to have some finality to this by sending that email, but in my experience, I’ve only ever really hoped for a reaction from them that says “i’ve changed, i’ve realized the error of my ways, blah blah blah” which is never the case. Or, what also hurts is that they don’t respond, or basically say “fine with me.” Nothing but more pain. I’m sorry to hear of your depression and suicide attempts. I’ve never attempted but my situation has had me thinking about such things I would never hope someone else could bring me to. I feel your pain.
HSN
Oh my. I am so sorry you have been treated this way. I have been through something similar & I just have to say you need to end things with this person immediately. It doesn’t matter whether you e-mail him to say goodbye or just stop talking to him completely, the thing you need to do is decide that it is OVER and stick to it. That is the hardest part, sticking to it. This person (& I don’t call him a man because he clearly isn’t) is toxic to the extreme & he is a mindf*&^ing con artist. My ex played games with me too. He even sent me an e-mail telling me he loved me, said he wanted to talk about getting back together then I didn’t hear from him for a month. Here is what I told him (in an e-mail): “Do not contact me anymore in any way, shape or form for any reason. Goodbye.” I haven’t looked back since. DO the same thing HSN. This guy is very cruel & he is just an azzhole plain & simple. Asking yourself how and why he could be the way he is is futile… some people are just azzholes. I wish you all the best.
HSN,
I felt like crying reading this. What happened to these men that they intentionally hurt us and with no remorse. Whether they disappear for days/weeks just because they can or hurt us with words, the end result is a blow to our self esteem. My AC would act all in love while together and then disappear. When I would question him about the mixed signals he would say “just b/c someone is having a great time and is happy doesn’t mean they want a relationship” – of course I though I could change his mind but it was the same bs, different day. I have since backed off, and it’s getting easier. I had to see him today with mutual work friends and he acted like nothing was wrong and hugged me goodbye and said “we’ll catch up”. No thanks. No contact is the way to go. It sucks, you cry and CRAVE but it does get easier with time. These men make AWFUL life partners. Feel sorry for their future wives.
OUCH! My ex used to do the SAME THING! Break up with me, then tell me how he was doing all these things that I liked, JUST TO HURT ME, how he was seeing so and so, games, lies and new email address after I blocked the first one, birthday cards with pet names.
It’s gross. Get into NC fast.
HSN this has to be about the best thing for you to move on. If you respond to him what is to stop you keeping responding when he gets back in touch? Much better to go NC now this minute. what I found helpful was writing an email to yourself about why you are doing it, get your feelings out and read it when you get tempted further down the line. Not that it is about him but ignoring will get to him much more than responding. And you get to feel dignified and in control. The minute you respond you hand back the control to him and you are waiting to see what he does.
Incidentally I was thinking about his gmail problem – how about assclown2000 I’ve heard it’s available!
yes i have been there and done that and it backfired on me. i thought he (the ex) might realise how much of a jerk he was when we were together and that he might be an ok friend, but how delusional i was. all he had on his mind all the time was getting in my pants, so i eventually had to say NO MORE!!!! Its shown me that once a jerk, always a jerk.
Thank you to Tea Cozy who wrote “No contact means no new pain.” That struck a cord with me that you would not believe, but it sums it up perfectly. It is my new mantra and posted on my computer at work.
HSN, I totally agree. This man does not appear to be one you should still be thinking about after all this time has passed. I agree with Grace. He’s a serial philanderer – a colossal waste of your precious time. Fortify your boundaries, keep NC, and move on. Give yourself a chance to find someone who gives you care, respect, trust and love. He’s not all that!
I hope I’m not terribly topic, since this post has more to do with trying to perpetually reunite with an ex instead of trying to be just friends….I’m ashamed to say I fell off the “no contact” wagon. Well, I guess jumped is more like it. And now I’m back after being rejected again for the third time. I am so ashamed of myself. Seriously, do I have no self-respect? I’m actually considering CODA, because something is clearly wrong here.
In January, I decided to reach out to my ex-fiance again, and I asked if he would feel comfortable dating again (?). We went out a few times, and then he started rescheduling/postponing last minute; and finally a couple a days ago (a few hours before yet another rescheduled get together) he sent me an email—AN EMAIL—saying that he wasn’t ready to date again; there was too much leftover hurt, mistrust, etc.
It’s strange, because I don’t trust this guy, and I know we have dissimilar values. He has a pretty bad temper, trouble telling the truth, and I recently discovered that he’s started smoking pot again (I know that probably isn’t a deal-breaker for a lot of people, but I’m not comfortable with it.) Despite all of that, I keep thinking about how wonderfully he treated me for nine months, and I am convinced no one will ever treat me that well again. I guess that’s why I’ve completely thrown my self-respect to the wayside, in the hopes that if I try to make him happy and be the carefree girl he fell in love with (rather than the girl who blew a gasket and became paranoid and controlling when she found out that he had lied to her habitually) then all will return to the way it was.
I have read Natalie’s post about the insanity of seeking a rejection retraction, and I know that’s what I’ve been doing. I am just having such an incredibly hard time letting go and accepting this rejection. I feel worthless and unlovable, and I act out in foolish, self-depreciating ways that ultimately perpetuate these feelings. I know how pathetic that sounds, and I want to be so much more secure and confident. I don’t want to be one of those whiners who do nothing to change and are ultimately responsible for their own unhappiness. I know I just need to “suck it up” and get over it. But I really think I’m going to need some help. Have any of you ever attended/recommend CODA? Have any of you fallen off the wagon a few times, and if so, how…
Laurie,
I have no idea about CODA but I also jumped off the NC wagon a couple of times, aS have many others. And of course it wasn’t any better, the same problems were there (um, yup, still married) and he treated me worse and had less respect. I don’t actually regret that now, I suppose I had to find out for sure it was hopeless and pointless. Don’t blame yourself, at one time you loved him and there were good things in the relationship that you miss. Now you know for sure he’s no good focus on that instead of cursing yourself. In the immediate aftermath I found the Unsent letter worksheet useful to pour out all the feelings. I got it out today in fact and realised I can now throw it away, I don’t feel that way about him any more, though I do feel a terrible fear and horror of ever having contact again so I guess I am not 100% over him, the goal being not to give a flying F.
I think your tolerance level is set very high. There has to be 100% no possibility before you will stop trying.
Many people feel a very strong compulsion to repeat the pattern with their pain source. It seems easier, familiar, even though it is next to impossible. It is a mixture of validation, curiosity, hoping that they will change that fuels this.
I went to therapy and went NC. If it was meant to be, they would NOT be acting this way. They’re unavailable, and so long as you are attached to him, you’re unavailable too.
Thanks Mymble and Tired,
It’s pretty embarrassing to come back to this site and admit that I effed up again. Thanks for not judging me too harshly and encouraging me to move forward. I contacted a counselor this week, and I’m going to attend my first CODA meeting next week. It’s pretty humiliating to admit that I have co-dependency issues, or that I’m emotionally unavailable. But I keep remembering the old adage that the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
Thanks for your story, Mymble. It really does give me hope that I won’t always be pinning for this guy. And I think you really hit the nail on the head, Tired.
He emailed me again today to say that there’s no reason to believe that we couldn’t try again (in the future, presumably?) What the hell does that even mean. Stop effing with my head, please. I’m NC once again, and with the help of counseling, CODA, and BR; I will make sure that’s how it stays from now on.
Laurie,
I attend CODA meetings, and I am working the steps, and I believe it has helped me a great deal, but I also attend another support group, and I utilize some other resources like BR
.
You can attend meetings online, and you can visit our forum. It doesn’t cost anything to join and explore the site, or attend meetings, so you can make an informed decision….
Sugar
http://www.onlinecoda.net
Thank you, Sugar! l will definitely take a look…
I am new here and stumbled onto this life- saving blog. My problem- I just plain crave him. I’ve been in no contact for over 6 months and still …this.
It was in a co dependent relationship and he was not emotionally avail, I even broke it off. I think I actually need to go to therapy to get some coping skills on how to deal . I feel just lost.
Clouds
Are you 100% NC? If not, do that pronto. If you are, and are not moving on, yes to therapy. I think six months is the magic point where you start to feel better. If you don’t, it’s time to do something. Sure, people heal at their own pace but I’d hate anyone to go through the three plus years that I endured. At the time I thought it was “right”. Now I think – it was unnecessary.
Why is it that I would take the friendship crumbs from an azzclown but absolutely refuse from a guy who I feel treated me well while we were dating? Is it because I’m healthier or because I never got much out of the ac therefore it wasnt much of a change being his ‘friend’. It just feels extremely upsetting to take a demotion and get less than all the attention I got from the other guy to be friends. Or it could be the abrupt way that he ended it, siteing my statement of boundaries caused his loss of interest.
It’s because friendship from an asshole has more worth when your self-esteem needs the validation. “I can’t believe that someone who behaves in this manner doesn’t want someone like me” and then by being friends, it’s like you at least know that there wasn’t something so badly wrong with you that even they don’t want to be friends. What you forget in all of this is that their actions reflect their identity, not yours. What reflects your identity is being there or still trying to be their friend.
Oh dear.
I have always found, time and again, that it is such a BAD idea to do ‘friend conversion’ of any kind. When you convert a friend to a lover, when it ends you can experience double the grief because you lose twice – as a friend and as a significant other.
There are people who like to get their foot in the door as a ‘friend’ rather than come straight out and ask for a date. They embed themselves and then ask for an upgrade. Why do they do this? What happened to just dating? It can be very ambiguous.
I have always found that ex dates and ex’s make TERRIBLE friends because the tone has been set at the start. And really why would someone go on to a dating site which is for *DATING* looking for friends – it’s just code for unavailable, not being good enough to see but good enough to ego stroke from etcetera.
There are exceptions, but often friendship is used as the get out card or to weasel out.
I just cannot believe I am still trying to be friends with someone who forbade me to join a certain meetup group because one of his exes was jealous and he wanted to stay friends with her. This was AFTER we stopped seeing each other (never really officially dated to start with). Then he did not want to be in touch because his new gf was jealous. Then contacted me again (after they broke up) and specified conditions for friendship. Then *I* specified conditions for friendship. What? There should be no conditions, right? Our “friendship” consists of an occasional text; why do I even care? I would not want to date him (I don’t think I ever did since he was super critical of me all the time…just remembering this crushes my self-esteem); I originally wanted to find out from him how guys date after a divorce since we were in a similar situation and I had NO CLUE. I thought that was a safe contact since I was not attracted to him physically. Am I just needing connections in my life? (Oh, yes, and he had a degree in psychology…) Divorce reduced the number of my friends due to frequent moves and just new situation etc.
I really didn’t want to post about this, but I’m thinking it might be more helpful to me to reach out…
I had an epic conversation with the AC at the end of January. I felt good about it-in it he said he thought we were friends & I told him we were NOT friends because I don’t have sex with my friends, etc…I felt so good, so complete. After, I deleted every email he ever sent me, blocked his email address from every one of mine, blocked his number on my phone, defriended him on FB…just cut him out completely. I deactivated my FB account too. Then I went back on to speak to a friend in mid-February & he poked me. (that poking thing is so immature) I was like, wow, have you no shame??? I sent him a note saying, “Blow me.” And then we had a convo & I end up inviting him out to drinks with a mutual friend after he starts pouring on the charm, etc….We meet, I get wasted, and we end up at his place. We get into it, but he’s like, “I’m not having sex with you because I want to prove I’m a decent person…blah blah blah” (I wasn’t planning on sleeping with him anyway.) So then he says “When you return from vacation, we’ll get together..blah blah blah” I say fine. Now it’s a month later & have I heard from him? Nope. He has always been disingenuous (ok, a flat out LIAR). Nothing new. I’m trying very very hard not to beat myself up for being a sucker again & to climb back on the wagon (still haven’t blocked his # again, because, sad to say, I was hoping he would make good.)-again.
This has been going on for 3 years now. And I would really like to get back to that place where I felt clear & empowered when I blocked everything. I just feeling like screaming at him!: STOP! Stop messing with me!!!! You are so hurtful!!!!!
That is why I have not blocked him again. Because I wanted the satisfaction of telling him off, again.
Eternal Summer,
You’re responsible for having responded to something as insignificant as an FB poke. You obviously didn’t mean ‘blow me’ in any way that meant I have no desire to be in touch with you; you took a nothing poke, poured some gasoline on it and lit a match being all “Yeah, want a piece of this?” You wanted the fight. You invited him out for drinks to have it. Even if getting socked in the face emotionally is the result, clearly you wanted the interaction more than the peace of ignoring. Sorry, but I don’t see much here than a guy lamely fishing around and you biting the lure big time. Yeah, his fishing around is about as annoying as a fly buzzing in your hair, but YOU need to be the one to STOP messing with your own peace of mind.
Eternal Summer –
Don’t worry; you can do it. Maybe revisit Natalie’s excellent post on how it’s not your job to put people straight and tell them how they stuffed up your relationship?
Your job at the moment is to be a best friend to yourself. What kind of advice would you give a best friend in your situation?
Hell, girl, it’s not worth your breath telling him off. It just isn’t. Talking too much is what got you off the wagon in the first place, followed by drinking too much!
Get back on the NC wagon and learn from this, and don’t go there again. Onward and upward! I believe in you, even if you don’t believe very much in yourself at the moment. You can get back to ‘clear and focused’; it might just take a bit of time under the hedge licking your wounds.
Eternal Summer (or winter more like)
Do you want the satisfaction of telling him off more than you want the satisfaction of moving on with your life?
It’s going to have to be one hell of a bollocking to make up for three years of being jerked around. I think you’re going to have to chalk this up to experience and move it along. Quickly.
Thanks for the reality check, ladies!!!!!
That is what I’m always in need of: a reality check. It’s the fantasy that always keeps me hooked.
And that’s all me doing the fantasy.
Blocking again today.
Eternal Summer,
I can very much relate. In fact, today, I’ve told myself I need to have an honest conversation with myself, because I’ve been lying to myself, and to others who actually care about me to cover up my shame of falling off the wagon. I appreciate you sharing your story, I know it is not easy to do.
I too blocked his number at one time, and boy do I wish it was now 4 months later that I’d still not been in contact with him. I wonder where I would be, instead of where I am.
That urge to tell him off….I know how empowering it SEEMS when you start to think about all of the glorious things you can tell him, about him and about ourselves. But I also know, from the AC and past EUMs, it does nothing. It really truly does nothing. The AC especially, he wants nothing less than to listen to me go off on him. All he has to do is shut off, tell me to leave then, go away, he doesn’t care. What does that do to me? It F-ing KILLS me to hear, I keep talking, and it feels like I only fall deeper and deeper into the hole; it’s a muddy hole and filling up with more and more water and I’m struggling more and more to get out. I have not control, and I want control, so I keep talking. Telling him off will and has done nothing for me. Mostly because I am still wanting him to say the right thing afterwards, to heal my hurt, to magically become a prince. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. It is the most clear example of returning to the pain source hoping it will stop the pain.
I hope for us both we can make some changes, although difficult at first, will be the best for us in the long run. Let’s try to resist the urge to tell them off…..rather, let’s cut them off.
Hugs.
I prefer my friends to be good ones. That means I can call them without the risk of either party feeling uncomfortable, rely on them for reciprocal favors and occassional shoulders to lean on, share stories, have common values and interests etc. And then there are of course “best friends”, who I look to even more, and requires even greater reciprocatoin. I’m not recalling an ex anything that comes close to falling in either category. They might be a casual acquaintance (sounds cold but true) or a regular attendee at social group functions, and there usually aren’t any hard feelings, but I definitely don’t look to any of them for anything significant or to fill any needs, and vice versa. Someone I know and someone who is my friend is a very different thing. And it keeps my life much, much simpler.
HSN, I think the appropriate advice to give is to write the email but to not send it. Better still, write a letter…emails are only 1 click away from sending..too easy. It’s healthy and sometimes cathartic to pour your feelings out but you’d rarely get the response you desire if you express them to someone with limited ability to acknowledge them. Any communication at this point keeps things going and indicates that there’s a level of interest. If you’ve decided that he’s a shit and incapable of treating you well get behind that decision and remove the source of negativity from your life. If you believe he will process the information in the same way that you would, you’re probably mistaken. In my experience, they’re simply incapable. Xx
I wrote in once earlier, telling about my EUM of a boyfriend, and was promptly told to get the hell out. Well, since I seem to be almost unable to let go of fantasies and my imagined ways to make them become flesh, I didn’t. But I did talk with him, several times, about the state of our relationship. It went into some very bad places. I also very kindly asked him to take a one month break from his habitual pot smoking, which he acknowledges is very damaging to his whole life and to us.
“I do not have the energy to care for your well-being”, he said, and “I refuse to accept any rules regarding pot and it makes me feel like you put a five-kg weight on my shoulders when you make all these demands on me”….the other demand being “I would love for us take some time to explore each others bodies”. Sheesh.
So today I went to his place and did my absolute best. I listened, focused on being really calm and loving and supportive, and as honest, straightforward, clear, gentle and conscious as I ever can be. I told him that I have busted my boundaries with him and take full responsibility for it, but I cannot continue being subject to his constant PMS storms. I told him that if he wants to be with me, he needs to break this pattern and man the hell up, right now, otherwise I have no other option than to walk out and cut him off completely.
He shed tears, but didn’t ask me to stay. He was upset when I said I do not want to be friends, now or quite possibly ever. But I don’t. And then I kissed him and walked out, and for the first time in all the times we broke up, he didn’t call or text.
I feel relieved, and underneath, sadness and grief emerging. But I have to agree with this post completely – any attempt at trying to be friends would be 100% for the wrong reasons, and lead to the wrong results. NC starts now, and I hope it lasts forever.
Cant believe it, i broke my nc and he didnt answer but he called back. we hooked up and he told me he is seeing another woman and its seems serious but he is playing it down. I suggested I spend the nite and he kicked me out saying she might be comming by later on like 3 or 4 in the morning from work. i couldnt believe it. I went to shock. how did I let myself get into this situation. YYY. when I know better. i asked if he is in a relationship he said no. then why is she getting to come over when I already here. He apologized as I was pushed out the door and i just went num. I feel like i deserved it. for even allowing myself to go over his house. i dont what to feel.
Katy,
This guy has really disrespected both of you!!!! He sounds like a real creep!
I’m curious as to why you broke up?
Please let this be and go NC!!! Forever!
Katy, Katy, Katy!
You fell off the wagon but you need to get right back on. See this as further evidence (if you needed it) that NC is the only way. Don’t think of it as him treating her better than you. He still had you round and is stringing you both along. Get out then be glad you are you and not her not the other way round.
Katy, I think you’re not seeing the wood for the trees.
1. Someone who is seeing someone at whatever level of serious it is at, is unlikely to want to raise suspicion by cancelling especially when they have no loyalty to you and are not in a relationship with you.
2. Sleeping with him in the manner that you did, creates the impression that you’re really not that bothered, after all, in his mind, if you truly wanted a relationship or even a decent guy, you sure as hell wouldn’t piss on him if he were on fire, never mind slip him a piece.
3. You’re worried about why he doesn’t just keep you at his place instead of her. Er, I’d be more worried that this woman will come over and after him dipping his willy in you, he’ll be dipping it in her. That is gross. You’d better be careful that you don’t catch a case. People die due to this type of carry on.
4. The trouble with leading with sex, is that you end up being objectified and then of course, you don’t like being treated like a discardable object. If your largest concern is why you cannot stay over, I would make it a priority to see a professional urgently as aside from deserving better than allowing yourself to be treated in this manner, this is also incredibly unhealthy and dangerous.
You deserve better and he should never have the power or the opportunity to do this to you and it is you and only you who can remove those from him by blanking him from here to eternity.
Late Bloomer thank you for the response its gives me strength and NML you too. Late, I completely understand you, it has been a long journey for me though that started four yrs ago when I realized that I had a problem. I did therapy and group sessions for a year. I did a 13 week group therapy called ‘ How to spot a dangerous man before you get involved’. And yes, emotionally abusive men are dangerous. It was in individual therapy where I learned that being friends with all my exs was very unhealthy and I cut ties. Its difficult to do because a lot of people dont know or support healthy behavior so I’ve basically been on my own with this and taking hits from all directions. Literally thank God for BR. When I want to believe the general publics view of things because its easier, I come here and get a dose of the real deal. NML has helped me and all the posters here beyond belief. When I want to resort to old behavior, I come here and realize my worth.
Help….I really need a good talking to!!! I broke NC with the EUM a few weeks ago and then I read this post….. OMG! It could’ve been written for me!!!! I was doing so well after 8 months of being messed about, messed with and feeling distraught….I had cut contact at xmas and had even been out with someone else and had a good time. Then he emailed me earlier this month (after I had asked him to not contact me) and I replied. I could kick myself!!!
The main problem is I work with him….five days a week!! I HAVE to see him everyday, sit next to him, talk to him…..it’s like torture!! He always made it clear that he still fancies me, wants to be friends, have contact, but he still has a girlfriend!! He always goes on about how much he cares for me, can’t imagine not talking to me, is miserable when we don’t speak etc… I thought I could be friends with him, and I wanted to be. But one thing has led to another (as it always seems to) and here I am 3 weeks later feeling like ‘the other woman’ again. The reason he broke it off back in Autumn (after breaking up with his gfriend to be with me) was the age gap between us, which is 13 yrs and even I know that we would’ve struggled to make it work, but I fell head over heels. He then went back to his gfriend…..
How do I get out of it? How do I maintain a civil working relationship? How do I stop the feelings? I know that if it continues I’m gonna end up back in the pit of despair I was in before xmas….and I can’t go there again, but can’t seem to stop myself…. Even just typing that sounds truly pathetic!!! Haha!!
Really though, how do you go totally NC when you have to see them and speak to them everyday and still have the same feelings ?! It feels utterly impossible!!
Cherry
A 13 yr age gap is nothing when two people love each other. I know a few couples where the woman is 12 years older; 13 years isn’t much more than that. I assume you’re both adults. BUT HOW CONVENIENT that both of you get to use this as an excuse.
If you knew the age gap was unworkable, why pursue it?
Sounds like you both like this love against the odds business. You must especially like it, given he has a girlfriend too. It’s the classic terrain of the EU. If it wasn’t the age gap, if it wasn’t the girlfriend, it would be something else.
If you won’t leave the job, just keep it cool and civilised. there’s no need to be having romantic conversations at work, or even friendly ones. I’m not friends with most people I work with. It’s fine.
Yeah, I know I’m being hard, I’m trying to cut through the catastrophizing. You can get through this if you want to.
Cherry,
I work with my AC too and the age gap is similar. Funny thing is, it never came up and I didn’t feel older when I was with him. I fell hard but deep down I knew it would never work b/c he wants kids and I’m done with that. I have to act like I’m over it but I’m still hurt. I fell hard and then he had fun pulling the rug out from under me. He relentlessly pursued me first – I think it’s a pattern with him and a lot of AC’s. The 3 C’s- Chase, charm and checkout. Stay away or the pain will never go away.
CherryBlossom,
You ignore him as much as you can. Only talk to him if/when you need to, as in working on projects. No email (unless work related), IM, and it’s going to be hard, but do yourself a favor and no more texts or phone calls with him. If you’re “lucky” like I was you won’t have to talk to him on the reg b/c we were on diff teams.Sounds like you’re on the same one, seated close by. It can still be done, NML managed to.
I suggest you make effort to meet more guys, and maybe begin dating an available one or two that seem kind, interesting, and normal, add new hobbies, sports…find something to fill up the time you’ve spent thinking/hanging out with him. Remind yourself you deserve better. I’ve been devoting more time to working out, running in particular and weight training nearly every day. I’m becoming a specimen lol. Exercise is therapeutic, relieves stress and builds confidence,find one(s) that you like.
You can say the word “hi” passing in the halls. That’s how I survived working with my former Mr. EUM/AC. Don’t make the mistake I did for awhile and speak of personal things with him still, dress up sometimes fancy hoping to catch his eye, keep hoping he will change, it’s being a glutton for punishment. You’re not really friends and they don’t do “more” well either. Friends don’t do the shite Mr EUM/AC does…excuse my French I’m still hurting over what mine did, made me feel like crap. They make you question yourself and feel like a troll (i.e an ugly, scary,rather boring fictional being), not deserving of respect,honesty,or quality time. Horrid.
Remind yourself of his flaws, the SHITE he’s pulled…and listen to your ipod, focus on your work and get to know your teammates better. It was therapeutic to me realizing/recognizing again that MOST people like/love me & have no issue showing me basic human kindnesses & respect. Finally realized that it’s HIM, not me…you will survive, and eventually you will work somewhere else. Like me. I’m healing, and so will you. *HUGS*
Thank you so much for your replies……everything you’ve said is sooooo right!! Deep down I know it….just this little voice inside says ‘maybe this time it’ll be different’, but it won’t and I’ll end up the hurt one again whilst he waltzes back to his girlfriend!
It’s just that horrible feeling that I’m a bit back to square one and have to start the process all over again….and will I be strong enough to stop it happening again. I can’t be ‘friends’ with him….I know that so the only alternative is nothing. The only thing I feel confident about is that I know he got me at a low point- I’d just stopped seeing a guy after 6 weeks and felt a bit fed up about it.
I know it’s gotta be done though….for MY sake because I am my own best friend and need to care of ME!!!
Love to all x
I believe my ex has just assumed we would be friends after he blindsidedly broke up with me. There was no contact for the first week. The second week was a “When can I get my stuff” text. The third week was “I got my stuff and oh I bought your dog a xmas present from the girls. It has nothing to do with us” text. fast forward to february (there were random texts from him ex: “So cold out! Dog must be mad!” in between) February roles thru, I get a text stating that “The kids told me today they miss you” After not responding to any of the inane texts, I do respond to that saying that I am on holidays and I will phone you when I get back. It ws like the kids were being dangled in front of me. I didnt call him. Then at the beginning of this month I get a call from his oldest just calling to day hi. I did phone him back and tell him that he cannot get the kids involved with this etc. It was a short call with nothing really resolved. I need some help here. I love the kids, I still love him, he is being rather douchey and ambivilent. I wish I didnt call, but it looks like he was having his kids do his dirty work. Thoughts? Opinions? I’m ready for some advice. It is hard to speak to friends about it as we both have long term mutual friends and word can spread like wild fire. I would rather keep this whole scene private, so am turning to the Baggage Reclaim communtiy for some insight.
rinlin
I’m afraid that if they aren’t your children you will have to lose contact with them too. I had to do the same when I split up with the abusive ex, who dangled his son in front of me. Having spent much of our relationship guilt-tripping me about said son.
Yes, they will wheel out the children if it works for them. It’s cruel to the children.
There’s no winner here, and no perfect solution. If you maintain contact with the children at any point he can change his mind about that.
If you think you can be friends (sounds unlikely if he’s douchey and ambivalent) then the situation would be different. But it’s not different. It’s what it is.
rinlin,
Grace is right. you have to “break up” with the children as well, especially when the father/ex is an EUM/AC. This type of man will use his kids in his mind games with you to keep himself in your life. A decent person would never involve using his kids to manipulate others, but i’ve seen that an AC will use anyone, including his children. It’s really sad. You are a caring person who cared about his children, in large part too because you cared about him. But he treated you poorly, and is treating his kids poorly by allowing them to contact you. He’s leading them on just as much as you.
My last AC has two kids. He lies to them and about them to cover up his shite. Really, really sad for the kids. I often heard his son “slip” up with saying something his dad probably didn’t want him to say in front of me. I learned a lot about myself and my own values when I refused to use the kids when I wanted more info, that small part of me that said “maybe they can tell me what’s really going on” But I would never have done that to them, ever. The children are innocent and if they have a father who uses and lies to them, they have enough problems without some practical stranger doing the same to them. The AC told me over and over how i was the only one he ever trusted enough and saw a future with to allow to meet his children. Then I find out he exposed them to all kinds of random women. He even said things like “i swear on my kids” when i was not believing the bs he was feeding me. That’s so sick.
Sorry for the rant, but do be careful. It hurts that he not only uses his kids to get at you, but he also clearly has no concerns that you may be trying to let go of emotional ties to them as well, but he’s dangling them in front of you. He wants that power and uses his kids to gain the power, because ultimetely you have no tie to them, he does, and he can take them away as fast as he presented them.
You both are right. The children are part of the break up and they are innocent. The kids being dangled, were only after he left soup at my door when i wasnt home, and told me he can do some repairs on my house that needed to be done. I didnt respond to any of that. I think the clincher is I am leaving on a holiday that I booked for myself while we were together only to find out that he will be in the same place with the kids, at the same time. Really? Really?
Rinlin, one of my friends is in a similar situation. She was with an EU/AC for ten (loooooooong) years and he has two children from a previous marriage. She and this ex are not on good terms at all, reason being that, well, he’s an assclown. The children were very young when they got together, so she’s been in their life for the majority of it, even though she and the clown never got hitched (He wouldn’t get married. Everyone, please suspend your disbelief.). It’s a really crappy situation, because she and the children still keep in touch and, since he is dating someone new that they can’t stand, they fill her in on every little detail. It’s not healthy for her, but she has no idea what to do, because she loves the kids and they love her. They’re not old enough for her to explain that it’s hurtful to hear about their father’s exploits, so she just tries to subtly steer the convo in another direction. The other ladies’ advice sounds dead-on to me and I don’t have anything groundbreaking to add, but I wanted you to know that you’re not alone in being in this situation!
….”please suspend your disbelief”…. You are hilarious!! I choked on my morning coffee on that one! Thanks for the giggles!
Hi Bits,
Sounds like you are on the right path. If he’s busted your boundaries, you have to walk to be fair to yourself. You figure in the equation.
One thing tho, don’t “HOPE” for NC to be forever. I kept hoping too. You have to “DO” it. Don’t hope to do it. Hope gets you a wing and prayer. Also, listen to what he has told you. He told you he is not available. I didn’t listen either and learned the hard way.
Stay Strong.
Thank you runnergirl. I find Natalie’s posts and all the incredibly smart and strong and vulnerable women who write comments here to be an inspiration. It’s such a relief, starting to understand that I might not be a batshit crazy demanding bitch after all, but he might just have belonged to the Tribe of Men Who Should Just Stay In Their Holes. Reading all your stories really gives me perspective on myself and hope that there is a way out of this emotionally shattered place of numb pain.
Girls the really sad thing about all this, is the reason why perhaps these guys are Narcissistic is my own experience of being with a guy who claims I have low self-esteem, when he fails to recognise his his own self-esteem issues about not being able to find a woman he truly loves and thus finding someone who they don’t get on with, both head-screwing his girlfriend, and me, his piece of arse who gladly went back for a second bruising.
I would think that if a guy this this one, who I became besottted with, could find a woman he was truly compatible with, they wouldn’t be so abusive and scathing in their attack of these women, who in some cases are “sugar mommas” and actually care and support these men financially and emotionally.
The sad truth is, while they were arseholes to us, the sad fact is that one day they are going to meet the woman of their dreams, who they respect, and not just use for life support and sex, whether that happens when they are 40 or 80, and then they will completely change!
Another sad reality of life and no consolation.
Sorry but I don’t agree. They may meet a compatible woman and treat her well but I think that if that happens it is because they have changed in order to let this sort of relationship in. They are not treating women badly because they haven’t met the right person yet. It is because they are choosing to be with women who fit their habits. Different thing I think? I think your view re-enforces feelings of not being good enough. You are good enough and need to find a man who deserves you.
“The sad truth is, while they were arseholes to us, the sad fact is that one day they are going to meet the woman of their dreams, who they respect, and not just use for life support and sex, whether that happens when they are 40 or 80, and then they will completely change!
Another sad reality of life and no consolation.”
I wrote a two looonng replies to this, then agreed with Polly (above) so much – who said it much better in a tenth of the words – that I deleted them again.
Some people don’t change and live to regret it, and when that happens it’s sad.
I can think, off the top of my head, of three male colleagues who from what I’ve been told cocked up their marriages years ago with affairs and (I’d guess) emotional unavailability. Those men are now generally not very clean, not very healthy, quite dissatisfied and angry with life and overindulge in food and/or alcohol.
Change isn’t easy for anyone and I think that a lot of these blokes have no incentive for it (partly because of the ready supply of enablers and ‘sugar mommas’ who let them carry on with it). But if they don’t, they aren’t going to have very happy or fulfilling lives, imo.
And if they do… well, I always think about that bit in Harry Potter where it turns out that the only way Voldemort can put his soul back together is through remorse, Harry, remorse… I personally would not like to develop a conscience if I had as much on said conscience as some of these men do.
ella
He did find someone he was compatible with. Someone who would put up with his shit and blame herself for it. You.
Or any of us (either past or present).
I’ve had the “pleasure” of witnessing an EUM in action over 20+ years. He still hasn’t met someone he can commit too. MAYBE THE PROBLEM ISN’T THE WOMEN or “COMPATIBILITY”. IT’S HIM.
Ella,
The thing to remember about being the OW, is that they never were looking to find a replacement for their primary relationship. It isn’t anything to do with your particular qualities, other than that the quality they liked about you was that you were prepared to go along with it. It is not that you were an unsuccessful applicant for the position, it is that there never was a vacancy in the first place. All they ever wanted was a bit of ego stroking/sex/whatever on the side. I suppose that probably also holds true for the AC/EUM behaviour – they are not at that point in time, looking for a relationship, in fact they may well choose someone with whom they won’t get forced to step up or get out. They are passing time. I do actually find some consolation in that.
Hmmmmmm…………i often wonder why some guys like to remain ‘friends’ once they have decided they do not want you anymore for reasons of their own etc. And why do they want ‘multiple’ partners behind your back so they cheat on you? I suppose the obvious answer has to be because they either see themselves as some sort of godlike guy who women cannot resist, they have low self esteem and getting attention from as many women as will butter them up so to speak makes them feel super human, or maybe they actually do not like the idea of someone else having what they had with you and are jealous of that fact, and so if they offer the ‘friend’ card they can at least know what you are up to and who you may possibly be with, and keep tabs on you etc.
As with the case of the guy i had a fairly long relationship with, he actually said he wanted to remain friends and hoped i would clean his house out for him when he moved out!! I think you can guess what my answer to that was……….
I just struck up a friendship with an ex that I broke up with over trust issues. While we were together, he lied a lot to me about some very important things. We agreed to end the relationship because we were both unhappy with the way things were going. I asked for NC. He tried to establish contact several times during the first month, but I kept telling him to stop contacting me until I’m ready to talk to him again. A month later, I break NC. I was just having such a nice day and the place I went on vacation to reminded me of our better memories. We had what I thought was a nice conversation and I felt as if we could finally be friends. Days later I start remembering the worst parts of our relationship and I’m not sure how to handle the memories and the anger they cause me to feel. Did I do the wrong thing by striking up a friendship? What should I do about it?
Yes….trying to force them to be your friend after breaking up (or after a fwb fallout), will just leave them hating you more. It will also leave you feeling crazy and stupid. It erodes your self esteem greatly. And if they treated you badly and were verbally and mentally abusive while you were an item, don’t be surprised when they figure out that you hold them in your mind as some sort of quasi-god and they start dishing out the abuse again. And again. And again. Don’t let yourself end up like me. Save your sanity and say no to being a fallback girl or boy.