Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl is now available in print – yay – so I thought it was high time I shared an excerpt from this completely rewritten edition. In the chapter, He Keeps a Foothold in Your Life, I explain how playing the ‘Friend Card’ and popping up from time to time in your life no matter how long you’ve been apart can make it difficult for you to move on. As many of you have already discovered, it can be very tricky to shake someone with the tenacity of a cockroach after a nuclear bomb out of your life when they’re determined to keep you as a rainy day option in their back pocket…
Let’s cut straight to the chase – he can’t keep control of you and maintain The Status Quo (his comfort zone) outside of the relationship if he doesn’t have a foot in your life and is unsure of your interest. He’s all about his comfort zone, so aside from having a comfort zone for when you’re involved, he equally has one for when you’re no longer together. In his mind, you’re either going to be together on his terms or apart on his terms. As a result, he’s quite frankly a pain in the bum.
From pushing the ‘Friend Card’, to poking around in your life, to chasing you for contact, attention, and even sex, he’s devised a number of means to attempt to maintain control even when the relationship is over. He can’t commit – whether it’s to being with you or leaving you the hell alone – so he’s ensuring that you’re an option should he change his mind or have a use for you, while feeding his ego with the security of what he perceives as your affections for him. He’s rarely upfront about this so of course this wreaks havoc in the lives of any and all Fallback Girls that give him the time of day.
The moment that you appear to be moving on is when he’ll home in on you, blow hot, and set you back ten steps. You’ll readily accept his offer of his friendship because you don’t want to let go either and you keep reminding yourself how he’s so nice, what great qualities he has, and how ‘connected’ you are, and how he’s so like your soulmate except for the small problem of him being emotionally unavailable and unable to commit. Let’s just cut to the chase:
He’s not your friend and he exploits an innate human desire to be perceived as being friend-worthy.
When he suggests that you should be friends or comes back and dangles the ‘Friend Card’ when he’s trying to squeeze his way into your life on lesser terms, it’s because if you won’t give him the time of day, let alone your friendship, aside from the fact that it will be very tricky for him to keep a foot in your life, you not being his friend communicates that he might not be as ‘wonderful’ or ‘innocent’ as he believes.
There’s a universal belief that if someone is still prepared to be your friend after you’ve broken up, it means you’re a good person. Securing friendship and respect, even if it’s undeserved, becomes of paramount importance. What he’s failed to realise is that these are things that are earned and if he’s that bloody concerned with being perceived as hurting or wronging someone, it’s about time he sought for his actions to reflect this.
You know when he asks to be friends after the breakup and you don’t hear from him for a while? It’s because, in you saying YES he’s secured enough of an ego stroke that he only sees the need to get in touch with you to check that it still stands.
You know when he pesters you about hanging out, catching up, or whatever to show that you’re ‘friends’ and then you agree and he suddenly goes ‘dark’ or the arrangement falls through? He secured enough of an ego stroke through your agreement that he sees no further use for you. For now.
You know when he badgers you to understand things from his perspective or for your forgiveness, only for him to go off and mistreat you again? It’s because he’s gained what he wants – forgiveness – so the slate’s been wiped clean. Even though he may do more stuff to piss you off, in his mind you’re ‘friends’.
The truth is: only people who are undeserving of your friendship have to badger, railroad, and guilt you into being their friend. If they were someone who acted with love, care, trust, and respect, they’d have a relative comfort in knowing they acted well enough that there is a possibility of friendship, but they equally would respect your need for space and not assume that they have a right to your friendship.
POKING AROUND
It’s easier to keep in touch with minimal effort, and with so many of us sharing aspects of our lives online that often link us to mutual friends and acquaintances, it has never been so easy for someone to poke around in our lives.
When he’s in ‘investigative mode’, he’s looking for clues either from you or third party sources that 1) you haven’t moved on, 2) you’re still the person he thought you were, and 3) that you’re still an option. Unfortunately, as Fallback Girls, we’re inclined to see poking around as something flattering – we think it’s a reflection of his feelings and inability to resist us. Be under no illusions – he’s poking around to maintain The Status Quo. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you haven’t heard from him, little do you realise, he may have done the poking around he needed without having to let you know about it. He may have asked mutual friends about you who told him that you’re OK but suffering (he thinks you’re still into him), or checked your Facebook profile and seen that you’re not happy or people sympathising with you (he thinks you’re still into him), or seen you walking around the office or town looking like someone has died (he thinks you’re still into him), seen a ‘tweet’ about how much your heart hurts (he thinks you’re still into him), or heard how you tried to date but decided to stop (he thinks you’re still into him).
Equally, he may have got confirmation that you’re still an option from you.
He may have gotten a call, text, or email from you checking in to ‘see how he’s doing’ (he thinks you’re still into him), or another message wondering why you haven’t heard from him (he thinks you’re still into him), or you told him he’s an asshole for treating you X/Y/Z but still responded to his next contact (he thinks you’re still into him), or you quickly reply to messages or agree to meet up (he thinks you’re still into him).
When you get the frenzied poking around, where he’s calling, showing up at your work or home, etc., it’s highly likely it’s because you’re not responding to any of these, or have responded in a drastically negative manner, and he hasn’t found third-party means to confirm your interest. While for a lot of Mr Unavailables even a very negative response is still attention in their eyes, for some, a very negative response will trigger that out-of-control sensation, and – yep, you guessed it – they start pursuing you, thinking they want to get back together, Future Faking etc. If you eventually move from very negative to positive again, which confirms your interest and validates their ego, they’ll bail or turn into Mr Not So Interested.
Your thoughts?
The new edition of Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl is now available to buy both in print and in digital formats plus check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and and more in my bookshop.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Song: Lemme be something sung by Shel Silverstein, couldn’t find a video link
– The whine of a guy who wants to hang around in every capacity possible if you allow, never fails to crack me up, so here we go:
Now if I can’t be your hotdog lemme be your little weiner
Baby if I can’t be your regular man lemme be your in betweener
And if I can’t be your human torch lemme be your submariner
Well hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
Yeah If I can’t be your Abercrombie bitch lemme be your five and tener
If I can’t be your all-the-time lemme be your now-and-thenner
And if I can’t be your now-and-thenner lemme be your you-tell-me-whenner
Mmm hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
And if I can’t be your datenut bread lemme be your soda cracker
And if I can’t be your boom-a-dee boom lemme be your clickity clacker
And if I can’t be your seven-course meal lemme be your midnight snacker
Yeah baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
Yeah if I can’t be your lovey-dovey lemme be your flirty-flirty
And if I can’t be your orchestra lemme be your little hurdy gurdy
And if I can’t be your Mr Clean lemme be your Mr Dirty
Oh hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somthin’
Hey if I can’t be your Sunday man lemme be your Monday action
Yeah well if I can’t be your big big show lemme be your coming attraction
And if I can’t be your coming attraction lemme be your momentary satisfaction
Yeah well hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
And if I can’t be your bombardier let me be your tail gunner
If I can’t be your serious love lemme be your just-for-funner
And if I can’t be your big collision lemme be your hit-and-runner
Yeah well hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
This is absolutely hysterical. Gonna have to look this up after work. Perfect ass-wipe theme song.
Another good one is ‘Give Me One Reason’ by Tracy Chapman. That’s on repeat. Or ‘I Don’t Want Love’ by the Antlers. Or… so many more!
Today my ex-assclown started poking around on facebook, because apparently people can still post comments on your pictures even if they are no longer friends, as long as they are tagged in it. It was some pathetic cry for attention about the dog that he mentally tortured me over for a year, about how much he misses him.
Instead of being grown-up and saying nothing, I responded with a hilarious e-card about how I told our dog he died. Then he responded with some thinly-veiled insult, and I broke that comment with a threat to block-delete, again. He said nothing (there was nothing he could say, it was so perfect).
I know I should have said nothing, but in the last few months of the last four years that we’ve been broken up, I find it hilarious to respond to his contact-attempts by dissing him hardcore in a hilarious way. Is this wrong? I know I’m still fairly angry at him… but I find this the most constructive and useful way to indicate to him that I no longer want to communicate.
Janie
You’re still playing the game and you may even be winning. I admit the scenario is funny but … ignoring is safest and the best way to move on.
Ah the friend card. Ex tried to pull that with me immediately after I dumped him, and I stupidly agreed to it. And lunch the next day? Sure, why not, that’s what friends do right? Lunch turns to drinks, a few hours later.. Can I spend the night for old times sake? No sex, I just want to lay next to you? Umm…I guess so? Tries to screw me- Oh HELL NO!! Proceeded to cut contact 100 percent.
His attempts to ‘keep tabs’ quickly turned into stalking. And car damage. And weird shit left on my porch. And a not-so-friendly surprise visit at 1 am. And having to move from my home out of fear. And 3 months of in and out of court with 2 attys and overwhelming evidence only to be denied an order of protection because the bastard is in law enforcement. To have gone through all of that and then having my rights to a free and fair hearing taken away from me was like being raped- by far the worst day of my life.
I now equate men trying to play the ‘friend card’ (i.e. staying in your life despite the fact that you don’t want them in your life) as the worst type of sociopath out there. Think about it: they want to take away your right to decide who is in your life and who isn’t, and in their mind it is their decision to make, not yours. And in my case, when I stood firm and didn’t allow him to be the ‘driver’ of my life, I had hell to pay.
Ladie, like Kanye said, “Baby I got a plan. Run away as fast as you can.”
Hello everyone, this blog has helped me immensely over the last 2 months. Right now I’m dealing with an ex who I can’t tell if he’s just trying to keep a foothold or if he really wants to change.
My relationship ended in August after a very intense 1.5 years. My ex is a neighbor, he is 29 and I am 33. We had known each other for over a year as acquaintances until the timing was right, and when it was, we were off to the races and established a relationship quickly. In the first month or two, I was feeling so secure and comfortable that I divulged a LOT of my past to him — the good the bad and the ugly, in some instances. In hindsight I think I was displaying insecurity when I did this. He shared a lot with me as well, and never indicated that anything that I said bothered him. Regardless, we fell very much in love — I never felt so cherished and I never longed for someone so much — and in hindsight we did smother each other a bit. Anyway, about five months into the relationship he started verbally attacking me over my past. He would have some sort of outburst about every 2 months (sometimes alcohol related), telling me I “had too much experience”, that it was “not his style”, obsessing about feeling inferior to my exes for crazy reasons, etc. It gutted me because this is the same guy who acted like he worshiped me the other 90% of the time. When I should have walked away, I stayed, I guess out of shock and to prove him wrong with my love. His verbal abuse made me doubt myself and feel guilt, and I became very anxious and critical of him and I was controlling at times — I guess my way of revenge. In the meantime, we still maintained this (unhealthy) serious, intimate, practically living-together relationship where he mentioned marriage and a family constantly.
By this past July we were still a fully functioning couple but the relationship was so strained by verbal abuse and bad behavior (in the last 2 months, he stood me up for an entire night, as well as had a drunken night out where a woman acquaintance crashed at his house — nothing happened but I was disgusted), not to mention nitpicking by me due to immense stress and self doubt over his not fully accepting me. I was a mess, having absorbed so much and dealt with tactics like the silent treatment, him walking out on arguments, vulgar language, and his constant bringing up…
my past whenever we fought. The final straw was when he, drunk, yelled at me in a bar in July about my past (I had asked him to slow his drinking) and I got up and walked away. The next month was a back and forth battle (I said I would not go on with the relationship unless the verbal abuse stopped) and he ended up coming around saying he would change. Then he disappeared for 5 weeks- nothing! Then he started texting, and I ignored and finally said that if he can’t talk constructively, to stop contacting me. He backpedaled and said he wanted to talk. We scheduled and I canceled-was afraid of getting hurt. He wrote back this self-pitying email about how I’m the one that got away and he’s sorry he can’t be the man I need. I wrote back with some choice words, which really pissed him off. That was it for a week. Saw him on the street a week later and he expressed a desire to talk and “get to the root” of what went wrong. My therapist suggested we talk in her office, and I asked and he agreed. We met up Sunday to chat a bit (5 hours) and ease the tension. He told me he wants to work on things, but that he feels he knows too much about my past and it led to the abuse. Monday at therapy he talked about how he obsesses over it TO THIS DAY and wishes he told me to stop telling him things. He said he felt like I wasn’t attracted to him anymore in the last year, and how he felt highly criticized by me. He cried and said he has not lost any love for me. Wants to go back to therapy with me and he wouldn’t be there if he didn’t want us to try and work things out. But I haven’t heard from him since. I’m not going to talk him into continuing this. I’m very aware of the damage he’s done, and that he is very insecure. He let things that I said almost 2 yrs ago manifest in ways as to hurt me, and end our relationship. I do feel guilty for sharing so much info about my past with him. Perhaps not doing so could have saved us both pain. Why did he walk away and why can’t he just get over his issues? I’m a fantastic woman (with some admitted self esteem issues I am working on). He always said he would never leave-he did, and now he’s back-kind of. Should I have any faith now, since he’s gone to therapy with me and expressed desire to work on things? I just wish he would go away for good if he can’t get over his insecurities. I refuse to feel shame about my past…
Seeing
A five hour chat! A visit to the therapist. A proposed return visit to the therapist. Maybe, the answer isn’t more talking and you should just turf him out of your life. For all the talking, he’s still displaying classic EU behaviour – disappearing, texting, disappearing.
It doesn’t matter how fantastic you are. Kylie is fantastic, so is Helena Christiansen, Tina Tuner, Halley Berry, Marilyn Monroe, Jennifer Aniston, Diana Spencer – all have been maltreated by men.
Being fantastic is no guarantee that a man will treat you right. It doesn’t let us off the hook. We still have to exercise our judgement and know when. to. call. it. a. day.
Why did he walk away and why can’t he just get over his issues? He is a separate human being and that’s his choice. Whether he is allowed to keep popping in and out of your life is entirely YOUR choice.
Grace,
Thanks for your response. You have a great point about cutting him off. I really think that is the only way out of this cycle of pain and frustration.
I didn’t mean to sound “I’m so great, how on EARTH could he leave?” I know wonderful women are mistreated all the time. Just simply stating that this is the man who told me for well over a year how much he loved me and how beautiful and perfect (I didn’t like when he called me perfect) and amazing I was; that he couldn’t wait to start a family together and suggested on a daily basis that he was ready for me to move in… then bailed for well over a month when I put my foot down on his abuse- and now has a litany of complaints about me. On the flip side, I can’t believe the verbal abuse I endured at times from the same ‘loving’ mouth.
That he, who lives 2 blocks from me, can look me in the eye now and say he wants to work things out and then disappeared again for a week! Aside from telling him that of course I missed the good times, and that the last couple of months have been hell for me, I’ve stayed strong and spoken with incredulity and anger to him for all of our in-person contact. I did say that we will never be friends, and the only condition of being in contact would be rebuilding our relationship… so maybe it’s just the textbook EUM… hot and cold… everything on his terms… saying things in the moment. Oh, and without texting, he’s got nothing! It’s just mind boggling, the carelessness. Thanks again.
@Nat: You’re certainly right, reading books is no excuse for not going NC. That needs to be done ASAP if you figure out you’ve been abused by a narcissist.
Anyway, I went NC with my narc mother years ago without even knowing about narcissism. Unfortunately, I went on suffering because I still blamed myself believing I was the crazy one (as I’d been told so many times) and not her. I refused to get counselling because I believed all therapists would be just like her, trying to teach me to put up with perversities, hatred and ridicule without even getting angry – basically trying to kill all that was ME!
It took me one year of reading about narcissism until I gained enough trust to even try counselling. Therefore I think reading about personality disorders isn’t always a bad approach.
Natalie Thankyou for the link. I just still don’t understand why everyone chose my ex ACs side and not mine. While I got ostracizied and dumped by everyone. I never felt so betrayed in all my life. A friend of mine said that I should’ve kept in contact with the mutual friends and not cut them off. Then I would’ve had some support and they could see what a prick this guy really is. I just don’t see the point in doing the right thing anymore, when I get screwed over like this. What do I do if I ever run into these people again? I still want revenge. I still hope that he screws them all over. I don’t understand how an AC who is a complete bastard, be really popular and have so many friends.
These ACs seem to get off scot free no matter what. I won’t forgive the mutual friends either. If he was cheating on me, they probably knew about it and never told me. Two faced people. I hope the same thing happens to them, I really do.
fedup
How long have you been feeling this resentment? It’s very natural and nothing wrong with it per se it but at some point we have to ask yourself if we’re stuck. At the risk of sounding like an elderly aunt – it only hurts you. Like you said, he doesn’t care and the friends don’t care. Or, to be more charitable, the friends don’t see it as their business.
By focusing on their wrongdoing (and, yes, he was wrong), we can’t move on. It’s just another way of putting them in the centre of our lives. Instead of waking up and loving them, or waking up and wondering how to make them love us, or waking up and feeling sad about them, we move to waking up and hating them. It’s still making them the centre of our lives.
I hesitate to put a timeframe on it, but having been BURNED by obsessions with exes, I would tentatively suggest that if it’s been six months since your break up and there’s no let up in the intensity of your pain (whether it be crying, anger, resentment, grief) that it’s time to instigate a rescue plan for yourself.
Starting with total NC and nuke the mutual friendships if you have to. Drastic times call for drastic measures.
Leave him to karma, to God, or to natural justice – you don’t have the power or the time to deal with it!
“If you eventually move from very negative to positive again, which confirms your interest and validates their ego, they’ll bail or turn into Mr Not So Interested.”
I sucked it and saw. This also happened in 24 freakin’ hours! Ridiculous. I want to cry but instead I’m going to blast out my Douchebag Playlist and keep rebuilding. My epiphany is that I CAN opt out. I don’t have to carry this hurt like a millstone. His Friend Card is revoked.
D,
Hang in there. I’m in the same boat. Hold Strong. Suck and saw it and now miserable. Hang tough you can do it.
I don’t know where Natalie gets her wisdom from, but this post is SPOT ON.
My 3.5 year relationship with an a**clown ended about three months ago. During that time I slowly discovered that the reason his mobile phone was constantly attached to his hip like another appendage is because he has a long list of women in various stages :
- the ex (the one before me), in a holding pattern (she thought he was going to return to marry her), he regularly contacts her even after 4 years, goes to see her as a ‘friend’ perhaps once every two/three months. He knows she’s still hoping that ‘things will work out’.
- the newbie on the scene, he’s texting her secretly so her partner doesn’t find out, trying to meet her during the work day. He’s known her for 2 years and I never knew a thing (until recently) …He’s been telling her that he’s not happy with me (of course, he didn’t tell ME that). He’s getting ready to swoop in. She’s flattered, but doesn’t realize she isn’t the only one. There are at least 2 other newbies in similar holding patterns.
- there are a number of ex ex’s. He contacts them on their birthdays and other important days telling them that he has ‘happy memories’ of particular events and times. Implicitly implying that he STILL isn’t happy in his life. They probably think that he wishes he was back with them. The texts are designed to make them feel that way.
-then there are a couple of women who never quite made it to the ‘girlfriend’ stage but are FWB and are used for dry spells or when he is having an argument/disagreement with his current relationship.
- then there’s ME. The most recent ex. I’ve recently informed him that I’m going NC in order to move on. I know that he doesn’t believe me..I know that he’s simply going to put me on to the next stage of his ‘holding pattern’.
Ladies, when your ex has shown you the red flags of an a**clown know this: it is all about HIM and feeding his ego. He is not capable of thinking about YOU. For whatever reason, he is very damaged.. Don’t be just another name in his Inbox.
I totally agree! It feels almost like for so many women (or men… or I could just speak for myself), red flags aren’t so much warning beacons as lightbulbs we gravitate to like moths… .
I’ve personally had enough. I can’t heal, cosset or mollycoddle someone into loving me. I can’t throw the kitchen sink at someone who can’t even stay inside my boundaries.
I actually visited this really cool site, called Emotional Bag Check, where you can either “check” your baggage–write a note about whatever’s bothering you anonymously, and another user will read it and send you a message with a song. Or you can ‘carry’ someone’s baggage and do the same for them, anonymously. I carried some baggage and checked mine in and got a really nice message from someone that put everything I think into perspective.
The assclown I’m embroiled with is so caught up on keeping me on side for whatever he can get that we don’t even have a relationship. I’m so frazzled by keeping track of his crazy theatrics that I’m not in it for the right reasons either. And I’ve realised that while i’m so busy holding onto him like he’s the last man on Earth… I’m missing out. the idea of missing out on love doesn’t convince me deep down, but you know what? I’m missing out on a happy, healthy life and loving myself.
If he can’t match up his actions with words, it’s his loss. If he doesn’t have time, I don’t either. It feels like such a hard road to be trudging through, back and forth. But I have to choose myself before I break down. xxx
D,
You’re on the right track in looking for actions instead of words. That’s what I keep reminding myself when I ask questions about my ex out loud… “Why did he say this and do that?” etc.
“I’m missing out on a happy, healthy life and loving myself.” So true. I was doing NC pretty successfully for a while there… even though I was hurting tremendously, I was getting better slowly but surely, and focusing on myself — and I went for a couple weeks without crying — until I gave in and let us have a ‘talk’ at his request. He also came to my therapist with me. He claims to want to work on things and some may see the therapy as progress, but honestly, having him back in contact is hurting me more than anything (now I haven’t heard from him in 5 days!), so I think I am going to go NC again.
We are addicted to hope and bread crumbs, and as long as they are around, we can’t fully respect ourselves. Ask yourself… do you really want to live like this, with a man who’s not putting you first? And go from there. Love yourself.
Seeing,
Your comment “We are addicted to hope and bread crumbs” might as well have been in BIG RED FLASHING LIGHTS going off just for me. I’m on here looking for courage and wisdom to finally go NC myself when I came across your posting. To date, I haven’t been able to make it past 5 days of NC, but still trying. I always have that hope that things will change, he will change, he’ll finally realize how he feels for me, etc. That has been the hardest part honestly to me is “hoping”. That word used to be filled with happiness and potential but now has a much different meaning. My EUC is someone I’ve been trying to break away from for over 3yrs, but I haven’t been strong enough to do it yet…always taking the crumbs he gives and hoping for more to come from it. It’s difficult when I know he would be just fine not communicating with me…there would be no late night texts, or calls asking me to return. You see, I’m the OW (although we were childhood sweethearts) and he certainly doesn’t put me first and realistically I know he shouldn’t. I think that’s what hurts the most, knowing when I shut the door, it will be closed for good. Someone doesn’t even see me as being worth having back even as a FBG. Good luck to you on your journey and positive thoughts headed your way!
Complicated, as Seeing has said. “Love yourself”. I am ever more convinced that this is the way – the only way, to get beyond all of this. Please take note of all Nat’s posts and other literature in her books on self-esteem and validation seeking etc.
We stay stuck because we imagine we need the validation from the EUM/MM/AC – we are worth nothing, nada, zilch, unless they notice us/pay us attention/love us/give us a crumb/show us we matter by sending a text/nodding in our direction/not telling us to piss off… and all blah.. blah. We need to be able to validate ourselves! Until you recognise that YOU are your own problem here and it’s you who needs to address YOU (not him) you will be forever begging for a crumb from this guy or another guy or another until you finally learn to KNOW your own worth; people who know there own worth walk away from crumbs, they do not sit about weeping cos the crumb didn’t get chucked their way today nor do they whine and pine for another crumb from anyone, never mind an arrogant, cheating fecker. You need to address your sense of self worth / self esteem; this is the crux of the problem; if you really thought more of yourself you would not be in this position.Understand this: the value you are placing on you is the same as value he is placing on you – they are connected! You are communicating your value TO HIM. So why complain about him not valuing you when you are the one who is telling him/showing him that this is all you are worth?
Start with complaining to yourself – you are the one who is de-valuing you; he is going along with your own appraisal of yourself, and why would he not – what else has he got to go on? Wishing you good luck!
A few posts mention EU or otherwise not so great friends, and it’s something I’ve been giving some thought to lately. I’ve had a couple of friends fade out and I’m a bit puzzled by it. The 1st is a guy friend who has become a bit of an unreliable jerk now that he has a girlfriend. When we first met I think he was interested, but I mentioned that I had a bf right away and he backed off. We never flirted and there wasn’t anything more to it. We became good friends–talked a lot and hung out a fair bit, he was easy going, and I thought we were good friends–he was considerate, etc. When he did mention his romantic life it was odd….in his late 30s he’s only ever had one girlfriend and apparently wasn’t that into her or kind to her, and just has no strings attached sexual relationships it seems. I didn’t care to discuss it with him much, but whenever he spoke of anything like this I thought “yep, definitely not anyone I’d set a friend up with”. But thought I could classify him as a friend who just isn’t a good bf-type to women. With his now gf, it started out as a “we have rules in place, this is just sex” thing, but now they’re dating and it sounds like he really likes her. I was happy for him that he seemed to have a normal dating life. I’m not surprised that he may be less available now that he’s dating someone, but he also doesn’t return calls, is generally a bit of a jerk, and only suggests hanging out now if it’s something he’s already doing with a group. I’m disappointed, b/c I thought we were good friends….I also don’t fully understand it. I can see being caught up in spending most of his time with the new gf, but talking or meeting for a bite once a month or so doesn’t seem like that high of an expectation.
The second friend is a woman who I was very close to. We had an eery sort of parallel going on in terms of what was happening with the EU men in each of our lives. She would talk about how I was one of her best friends and how much she missed me (different cities) but now that she’s started a new job and (last I heard) decided to move on from her EU, she’s been really curt when I’ve been in touch and now hasn’t responded to a couple of emails suggesting catching up/planning a visit. Maybe I’m a reminder of the EU?
I guess I just wanted to see if anyone on here may have some insight. Are these friends just EU as…
well? Am I attracting the wrong sort of friends? She has gone from telling me how I’m one of her best friends to being incommunicado for long stretches in the past. It doesn’t really make sense to me, and if she is upset about something or if this has to do with the EU man situation, I would hope if we’re good friends that she could just talk to me about it. I know I can’t really know what goes on in the minds of others, and I’m trying to just leave it be, but I do still think about it and would like to have a better understanding of these things.
A
I guess the male friend (and/or his g/friend) a) doesn’t see it as appropriate for him to hang out with another girl on a one-to-one basis. I would agree with that. b) Now that he has an actual g/friend and not a faux one, you as the ‘stand in’ has outlived your usefulness. He’ll be happy to get back to the one-to-one thing with you if and when he finds himself single again.
I think your chats and closeness with the female friend has gone for a burton for exactly the reasons you say – she has moved on from the EU crap and so she doesn’t want to chat about it anymore or be reminded of it and it is that which you had in common. You don’t anymore. She has moved on. Simples. Let her.
Grace I have had resentment from day 1. And I have tried therapy, not that it helped much.
Fedup
grace is right. You need to put some serious, permanent and total distance between you and this guy and these mutual friends (the friends may not be meaning any harm – but nevertheless there very existence in the whole thing is affecting you very badly – so drop the whole lot of them and move right along to new pastures).
I have read this a couple of times now and it describes both of my previous relationships.
The one before last I non longer have contact with bu only becuase I changed my number and email and moved house (to a different country). The most recent still tries on occasion, usually with some sort of flirty text at silly o’clock in the morning or just turning up at my appartment drunk after a night out. He will then spout all the usual BS about how he feels about me etc and I would fall for it, conviently forgetting that he broke up with me firstly because he “wasn’t ready” for a new relationship and the second time to go back to his Ex.
I don’t intiate contact with him but sometimes end up at the same bar on night out due to having mutual friends and living in a very small place so limited places to go, and he will then play the “friend” card very well.
Luckily I am moving again in a few months to start a new job in yet another new country so won’t have to worry about any late night visits.
Fearless,
I’m happy that the female friend has moved on from the EU. She deserved better. But we were friends long before the EU’s, and there are much better things we can still talk about. I would hope that end of the EU wouldn’t mean the end of the friendship. And who knows, it may not even be about that.
As for the guy, maybe that is how he saw it–his female friends as stand in faux gf’s, I don’t know. Or he may be one of those people (male or female) who ditches their friends, be it same sex or opposite, when in a relationship.
I have male friends who I meet up with for coffee or a bite to eat once in a while. Their partners are fully aware and fine with it b/c the friendship is purely platonic (and sometimes the partners come for the bite to eat as well). I’ve maintained these friendships while in a relationship and my bf was ok with it–he knew all about who the friends are, when I meet them, and had met them himself. There is no flirting going on, and I never treated them as confidantes about my relationship (or vice versa). I disagree that it’s disrespectful to meet up with someone of the opposite sex one-on-one when you’re in a relationship if it truly is harmless. (And as for this friend, I don’t get the sense that he is of this view, nor that his girlfriend is).
A, I think that this is one of those classic examples where you’re investing brain energy into investigating and thinking about something where the topline information is pretty obvious. Hung out before he got a girlfriend, now he has one he’s no longer hanging out. He might be busy, he may no longer have a need for you or assume by your eagerness for friendship that you’ll still be there when he chooses to reach out. He may even see the friendship differently to you. It doesn’t matter what you do with all of these other male friends – it’s not what he’s doing with you. He doesn’t ‘owe’ you a meetup once a month. Genuine organic friendships don’t have those sorts of schedules. You may not realise it but you’re behaving like an ‘ex’ who has been told you’re still friends and then they move on and they suddenly go ‘dark’. Topline info is he’s very busy since he started this relationship. You have a lot of other friends from the sound of it – put your energies there and leave him be. It will show itself and resolve itself one way or another. Bad enough to be a worrying Fallback to someone you had a relationship with, so don’t do it with friendships with Mr Unavailables…
Personally, though it hurts. I think it’s a flat out pride and ego bruising issue. You know he doesn’t want to be your friend…and making a regular scheduled ‘meetup’ won’t make you feel better. It will feel forced. You know, the weird thing is when things have ended sourly with other exes, after time they’ve come back and it took me much longer but after some time I was ready as well to be friends. The feelings were gone and hence the friendship flowed naturally. I’m in the exact same boat…and I know I keep wondering why not a friendship…but if I’m honest…my ego is bruised. Cuz i still care.
Hi Anari,
In my case the guy friend was always just a friend–it’s not an ex-to-friend scenario. The “once a month” thing was really just an example–i.e. if we’re friends we would still talk/meet up once in a while even if he is busy & excited about a new relationship. I don’t have a schedule in mind. It’s irked me a bit, but more had me wondering if we were ever friends or if there was always something a bit off….or whether his not treating women he was involved with all that well was a red flag in terms of having a friendship with him. Either way, I’ve left it alone.
Thanks, Nat. I have left this one alone–tried a few times with the guy friend, then just dropped it. Reading this blog and thinking about things with the EU has me re-evaluating all kinds of relationships….I’m trying to see the bigger picture so I can work on what I need to do differently. I guess I’m having a hard time deciphering when things should be put down to being “just life” and when I should be learning a lesson.
I’m truthfully more upset about the situation with my female friend. I’ve left that situation alone as well for the time being and I suppose I should just continue to leave it–though I have moments where I wonder if I should send an email to reach out.
A,
I commented to your post above.
I have cut the ex and mutual friends off. They wouldn’t even tell me if he was heating on me- highly likely considering threat I got dumped. They’ll all married and engaged- they don’t understand at all, they’re all in the honeymoon stage. So much for their friendship! It defies any logic to me. Ive been going to a therapist a long time but it seems to be a complete waste of money.
Oh my… it’s like NML is my guardian angel or something because it seems everytime I have something fishy going on from my ex AC, Nat is there with an article that sums up exactly what I am going through. THANK YOU Nat.
Ex AC has most definitely been keeping tabs on me. Heck he called and hung up on my work voicemail about 24 times in the past 2 years. I am proud of myself because I ignored this. I am teetering on the edge of perhaps insanity because I have actually had contact with him (although it is only because he works in the building beside me and works for the same company- can’t avoid him all the time). I have been pleasant when I ran into him (although running over him crossed my mind too) Anyway, he has been doing what Nat describes – getting ahold of me whenever he can (I never initiate it) & he has even made up bogus reasons to come into my building to see me. He actually even had the gall to phone me and ask about my cell phone and whether I had changed my number (yeah duh I changed it immediately after I found out he was an ass). I have been dealing with him using comedy… I have lied to him … which is something that I normally do not do in my life but I feel that I don’t respect him so why not lie?! He called me 3 weeks ago, from an unknown number (and yes, if I was smart or stronger I would just hang up) and said that he wants to “have that talk”. (I am thinking, oh, yeah, you mean the talk I asked to have with you 2 years ago but instead you treated me like crap and pretended I wasn’t alive… OH that talk… NOW you’re ready). Anyway, I just played along with him, told him it wasn’t necessary but if he wants to that it’s ok. Well, haven’t heard from him since. Not that it matters, I don’t care if I ever hear from him again. But like Nat says he got what he was looking for… an ego stroke… he got just enough from me to feel that somehow I still care (which I don’t) so now he can screw off & wait a few months to contact me again. I guess I’ll have the last laugh though because I will be moving within the next couple years & he ain’t getting a forwarding address. Good thing is, after a while you just don’t care anymore. I figure IF he does call, well let’s face it, he WILL call, he needs another ego stroke at some point, I am going to let him talk, then I am going to tell him that we never ever should have gotten involved…
Just wanted to say one more thing, if he starts chasing me after I tell him there is no way in hell I would ever get with him again, then good for him. He is going to be met by a BRICK WALL. I have found out through this whole debacle that he is going to do what he wants to do regardless of anything I DO or SAY – because he is extremely selfish & just an ASS. I have to always remember who I am dealing with… this man does NOT think like me or care for anyone but himself. He’s a beautiful shell with a grotesque interior.
Cheers,
TJ
I also posted on previous page and realized I should’ve done this at the end to get as much feedback as possible. Oh well, I’ve read several posts about being the OW to a MM and have been in the same boat myself….for 3 years now. I’ve even posted on “Return of the childhood Sweetheart” about this last year. It all started 3 years ago…after we went our separate ways 15 years ago after dating a few months. He led off with the I’ve missed you and things about you, blah blah, and I fell for it, went to see him (he lives in another country), you can guess what happened there, then had my heart broken after I returned….when he decided to ignore me and my texts for several months later. This happened two years in a row!! Now, I’m carrying the “friend card” not sure why, maybe because I’m hoping he’ll eventually feel the way about me that I do him. Which I know is wrong because he is married. I just thought it was possible since we had a history. As a “friend” (I guess, we’ve never discussed what we are), he initiates texts with me and we go back and forth ALL day EVERY day while he’s at work. Of course, I don’t hear from him at night or on weekends when he’s not working. He only talks to be about sports or to jokingly insult about my country’s faults. We basically just banter. I’ve been holding onto this as a “connection” since it was all I had, but now the “joking insults” and bantering aren’t funny anymore (because I want more than friendship..I wanted validation I guess that I meant something) and now I want to just forget about him. But, not having me in his life even as a “friend” makes me almost physically sick. I’ve spent WAY too much time, effort, and mental stability haha thinking and worrying over this situation. It hurts so bad knowing I’m in love with someone who doesn’t love me back or can’t even say it. Btw, I asked “How do you feel about me?” and he said “I’m not sure of my feelings to be honest.” Ugh…this is after us carrying on for 3 years!! Just last year he told me he could definitely love me..but can’t imagine saying that to someone else right now due to his current situation. Can you please tell me how to finally go NC and decide not even be his friend anymore??? I’ve purchased FBG last year and No Contact ebooks (this one just now). Thanks so much!!
Hi Complicated, I can tell you how to go NC and it isn’t complicated. YOU STOP ALL CONTACT with the MM. Block him, delete him, ignore him. Since you have Natalie’s fabulous NC ebook, you know what to do because she outlines it perfectly. (BTW, order the new edition of Mr. U and the FBG…Nat’s at her best in this one.) The problem, of course, is implementing Natalie’s NC guidelines. She’s outlined what to do perfectly clearly. It wasn’t complicated for me, it was painful. Therein lies the problem. Implementing NC hurts, it sucks, it’s painful, and it makes me angry that I endured such shite. When I read your story, I felt very sad for you. Your MM said “I’m not sure of my feelings to be honest.” That hurts. If you can muster the energy to go NC, it’ll hurt, it’ll suck at first but there really is life after being involved with a MM/AC/EUM. You are on the right track “and now I want to just forget about him.” Leave him to banter with his wife all day about sports and such. He is married. And not to y0u. I’m a recovering OW too. It sucks. But I’ll never be an OW again cos it sucks. OW’s can we unite? No more bantering, sexing, texting, emailing, being strung out on a limb of umteen years with a stupid MM? All MM’s get flushed!
Thanks runnergirl,
Well I didn’t have to worry about “going NC” with him because it’s been 3 days since I’ve heard from him. I’m not about to initiate contact with him…that is a HUUUGE step for me. You see, in 2009 and 2010 both, he went 6 months (each year because he says he didn’t know how to process what was going on between us) without sending or responding to my texts. When we reconciled last year, I told him I would never be there for him again if he just stopped communicating again so I’m working to keep that promise to myself. Just sucks and is painful because it seems just when I’m about to get all strong and go no contact…HE DOES IT FIRST! Ugh. Also, I can’t help but wonder if he is ok. Like I had said in my previous post, we talk all day everyday about life and sports (with him sending the first message) and now I’m hoping he’s ok. I even did the unthinkable…checked his FB page to see if there was any activity and there wasn’t. I wish I didn’t care so much for him and it was as easy for me to disconnect from him as it’s always been for him to disconnect from me. Well, I’m done ranting now haha…but it’s kept me from sending him a message so it’s well worth it. I would like to keep in touch so if you have any insight to give, please send it my way. This is agonizing! Kinda feels like internal bleeding since I’m trying not to share this with any of my local friends as they’re soooo tired of hearing about it. But, I have to get it out before it eats me alive.
PS. Natalie – if you see this, feel free to comment. I have sent so many women to your site. You are a godsend and I wish you many blessings for all the help you’ve given me and Many other women
Congratulations Complicated on 3 days of NC. It doesn’t matter who initiated it as long as you can stay strong and resist the urge to respond if he tries to make contact. Stick to your promise to yourself. Regarding your thoughts as to whether he is okay, he is okay. If he isn’t, he has a wife, right? You are the other woman who has been “demoted” to friend, if there is such a thing as a demotion for an OW.
Your description about how it feels like “internal bleeding” because you can’t share your grief is spot on. I agree about Natalie’s blog and all the wise folks who comment, it is a godsend. With each day of NC, it does get a little easier and less painful. Have you started a journal yet? Writing out what you are feeling is helpful to get it out. If you keep posting in your journal, it is also a helpful reminder when you are feeling nostalgic and it helps you track your healing process. I have some darn sad and angry posts in my journal and on this blog . Everyday you spend NC is a gift, although there are down days there are also okay days. Everday you spend as an OW/Friend is one more miserable day you are unavailable for yourself and a future healthy relationship with an available man. If you can, block him, delete him, and defriend him on FB. It took me a while to get to that stage but it is extremely helpful. Sending you some cyberstrength. I know it sucks. It is the only way. Keep reading Natalie’s stuff too.
Hi runnergirl,
Well today is day 5 o f no contact. Everyone has said it will get easier with each passing day, but I don’t feel any better. The tears started yesterday and I found myself going back through our last conversations this past Sunday. There was nothing unusual said. I just can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that it has been 7 months since we have gone more than 2 days without talking and now it’s been 5 days, so i can’t help but wonder why he hasn’t at least contacted me. He wasn’t blowing hot and cold…he was consistently sending daily messages. So, I just don’t get it. I’m obviously not ready for no contact…but I will not be making contact with him if that makes any sense. I keep thinking maybe he got tired of doing all the initiating and is now waiting for me to do it and thinks “why hasn’t she contacted me?” Ugh. The mind games we play on ourselves. As always, any feedback you have is appreciated
. I know I’ll make it through, but right now it feels awful.
Hey Complicated,
Hang in there with NC and try as hard as you can not to think about why he isn’t contacting you. You’ve got to steel yourself to not respond if he does becuase as Natalie says in this post, he will be simply fishing around in order to keep you as an option or even less of an option since he’s only got the friend card on offer, if that. The thing I couldn’t get through my thick head was that he is MARRIED. If he really wanted to be with me like he said, his actions would have followed. On one of my early, teary days of NC and after hours on BR, I realized that I was sick to death of being an option but only I could change that. I envisioned myself NO. 1 which is the origin of runnergirlno1. Do you want to be NO. 1 or remain banging at the back door as a barely there OW hoping one day he’ll upgrade you? Please don’t get me wrong, I want to encourage you. However, every time I broke NC and responded to him (or worse initiated contact), it kept me stuck. Everytime he contacted me, I fantasized that this was it…he really can’t live without me, I’ll be NO.1 now! Everysingletime, I ended up sad and angry because is all he wanted was to know if I was still an option, NO. 2. At Nat says: “… he’s devised a number of means to attempt to maintain control even when the relationship is over. He can’t commit – whether it’s to being with you or leaving you the hell alone…” I had to finally break down and commit to me and that took some doing, including an awful “suck it and see” experience. I think you are ready for NC because you are here! Keep trying to envision being in a healthy relationship with someone who loves you where you are NO.1 Keep reading Natalie’s stuff and keep reading the comments from women (and men) who got to the other side. It will happen for us too. I’m not there yet but I know anything is better than being an OW. When I think about being an OW, I feel like I need to go take a hot, steamy shower to shower it off. Good luck. Keep posting, that helps too. Hugs.
Hi Runnergirl,
Well, I fell off the NC wagon. Ugh. I was only on it for 5 days before falling off. I contacted him to say that I haven’t heard from him and wanted to know if he was ok. Like I had previously mentioned, we were talking all day everyday so it was really bothering me that we hadn’t spoken in a week. He responded with “I’m Okay, was just thinking the same about you.” When I asked if he wanted to chat, there was no comment…until midnight when he decided to send me some nice compliments (not asking for anything, just nice compliments). Of course now my head is spinning. At least I got some nice compliments out of it..just trying to see the bright side if there is one. So here I go dragging my weak self back up onto the ‘NC Wagon’ and sitting with my head hung low. Oh well, tomorrow is a new day.
**Random thought – sometimes I can’t help but wonder if some of these ACs, EUM, or MM are like deer. If you stand still long enough they’ll come near, but the moment you make even the slightest move, they run for the hills.
Girl if you’re serious about NC, you need to delete his number. Delete every text he sends you. That way you have nothing to re-read and over analyze when you start to think about him. Healing already hurts enough without re-opening the wound every other day. Commit to yourself and follow through. Once you get past the hump of desire for him with some REAL distance, it’ll be easier to see him for the player he actually is.
I know this works ecause I’m currently 3 weeks NC with my EUM who I was in love with and the distance has allowed me to see just how selfish he really is. I told him I always hurt after I saw him and that if we weren’t going to date we needed to go our separate ways, but he keeps texting me anyway. No respect for my boundaries or feelings. Not such a catch afterall!
Ladies, may I exhibit an example of exactly what Nat is talking to us about in this article? I long ago kicked a specific assclown to the curb after leading me on, pretending he wanted a r’ship with me, then dumping me to moan over the accidental death of a girlfriend he’d dumped a decade before. I care and am sympathetic, but after awhile I was able to tell this was a head game of his to remain unavailable while using me as free therapist. Got sick of it, cut him off politely, wished him the best, moved on with my life.
A few weeks ago, he breaks into my blissful pool of NC saying hi to me on Facebook. I gave him a curt hi and moved briskly on, offering no emotion and no interest. Things quieted for awhile.
And now this afternoon, he contacted me again, making all sorts of flirtation noise, coming on to me, making clear romantic comments to me, all of which I blew aside. His profile picture on Facebook shows him with dead girlfriend. It has for months. Besides, being tough girl that I am, I’m over him and have been – for ages. Once a guy messes me over, my heart seals over bulletproof against him and I could not be back “into” him if I tried! Well, said assclown continues making vague comeons and being blown off, until he finally attempts to close escrow. Below you can read what he said, and what I said in return: (note especially what he says back after)
6 hours agoVasilis Assclown
hmmm why u dont ship yourself here
6 hours agoHeather Toughgirl
Because you’re not over you know who yet, and I need someone who is available
6 hours agoVasilis Assclown
hehhe
true
clever girl
6 hours agoVasilis Assclown
plus winter is comming
i ll be in a horny period:)
6 hours ago Heather Toughgirl
I have no doubt you’ll emerge from the darkness. I know you will. Take care and super best with the festival!!!!
AND I LOGGED OFF.
See ladies? Men know precisely what they’re up to when they play this game. Unfortunately for them, where I’m concerned, I just happen to be one of those women absolutely immune to it. Assclown continued to send messages and be ignored after that for a good 10 minutes of talking to himself in an empty digital room… then got the message and moved on.
That’s how ya do it, ladies. Heather in New York City
I say if there is a next time, just ignore the guy altogether. He probably got some satisfaction out of you telling him that you can’t be together because he’s hung up on someone else. Don’t let him think that if only his feelings changed that he would still have a chance with you. I would say that silence is the best way, but a simple “I’m not interested in you in that way” would also make for a nice blow to his ego.
(Always easier to give advice than to take it though
Do AC’s have radar?!! I knew he would pop up eventually and sure enough he called the morning after an amazing day for me professionally yesterday. (No way he could know what’s going on with me.) It went to voicemail and his message was to give him a call because he wanted to ask me something… Talk about the reset button, too, it was like he talked to me yesterday not 7 weeks since we last spoke. I’m sure he thinks enough time has passed that I’ll ask “How high?” since he’s asked me to jump. I don’t think so! Thank you Natalie and all you ladies for getting me to this point of strength and self love and care.
Hi Runnergirl,
Thank you so much for your comments. I am so much stronger dealing with all this, this time around than I was 3 years ago when it all started. That was round #1, when he stopped communicating with me for 5 months even though I kept sending desperate, needy messages every week. Yep, that was embarrassing. Last summer during round #2, I was an absolute mess on the inside while walking around with a smile on my face when he decided to stop communicating again. That time for 3 months. I still can’t believe 5 days have now gone by and nothing. No sports comments or FB posts directed towards me or anything. Just last Sunday, I had a FB post directed at me followed by hours of messages all initiated by him. You see, I decided not to ever initiate another message as to seem needy or desperate and seem more like a friend. I thought this would keep him from running away again. In March, I even told him I had to back off from sending messages because I knew he didn’t feel the way about me as I did for him. His response, “We have a unique and special bond that I treasure and I will continue to message you.” The thought of not having him to discuss our favorite sports or upcoming holiday plans or my birthday simply makes me want to cry. I wish someone would tell me, how do you spend ALL DAY, EVERY DAY messaging someone for a period of 7 months and then just stop abruptly??? For no reason. Just 2 weeks ago when he hadn’t heard from me he sent a message to see how I was doing . This is someone I have cared about for the past 15 years even after we broke up and went our separate ways. Up until March of this year, we weren’t communicating daily and I was honestly pursuing him even when he said “What do you expect of me, you’re there, I’m here and married?” When I finally flew to visit him (my idea), he said he had ignored me in “round #2″ because he “didn’t know how to process what was happening between us, had feelings for me, but couldn’t imagine telling someone else that he loved them right now during his current situation so he just shut down and disconnected”. His words. So, I’m feeling as if the past 3 years…all the time, effort, worrying, daily messaging, and money spent to travel to visit him 5 times was all a waste. He’s not a bad guy, but he is a cowardly man. Why can’t men just say “I can’t, I’m…
Complicated
“I wish someone would tell me, how do you spend ALL DAY, EVERY DAY messaging someone for a period of 7 months and then just stop abruptly??? For no reason.”
What do you mean, “for no reason”? You have EVERY and MANY reasons. I could list them for you but here’s one that is enough all by itself: he. is. making. you. utterly. miserable. Enough??
Fearless,
Although those are harsh words…they are the truth. Thank you for that. I’m not sure why we sometimes choose the path that is clearly more painful. You’re right, it does make me miserable. I’m miserable when I don’t hear from him and miserable when I do hear from him because I want more. I did hear from him early Sunday morning where he texted me with compliments which of course makes me wonder if I’m so great, why didn’t you choose me all those years ago…and so the mind games continued!! I’m dragging myself back up on the NC wagon with my head hung low and tail tucked between my legs. One day it will stick…right?
Complicated
You can’t believe he’s just disappeared after x, y, or z? I can. Every single person who comments here has experienced it. It’s got to the stage where I read the first few lines of a post “We had some great dates; he got back in touch; he said this or that, we had sex, he said we should live together, even … he proposed, I just KNOW that the next sentence will be .. and then he disappeared/stopped calling/ changed his mind/ pretended it hadn’t happened/ dumped me/ cheated on me.
This is what they do. It’s their stock in trade, along with the freakin texts.
You could spend another three years trying to figure it out or just cut and run. All this so you can “talk” about sport and holidays? Via messaging?
And he’s not your friend. He’s someone else’s husband. He knows that very well which is why he’s holding you at arm’s length where you can’t damage him but can quite effectively damage yourself.
Hi Grace,
You’re right, I am the one who’s been kept at arms length and ultimately just ending up hurting myself. I even asked him once how he could “disconnect” so easily and he said “I don’t know.” Wow, can you imagine if most women were able to disconnect that easily?! What a boatload of pain and misery we could save ourselves. He did end up contacting me this past weekend (late at night I might add) with the compliments. Oh, they were good ones too talking about my looks and how no one else was as good, etc. Well, obviously he didn’t think I was THAT good or he would’ve chose me 15 years ago and not string me along for the past 3 years. But, I know, it’s not about me, it’s about his unavailability (emotionally and marriage wise). I truly wish I’d never found him and reconnected and saved myself all this heartache. I do feel as if part of me has been damaged or broken and hopefully time (along with No Contact will help). But, I am so glad you all have been here on this website to help. Oh, and you’re right about him not being my friend because true friends don’t treat each other this way. As I told Fearless, here I go dragging myself back onto the NC wagon with my tail stuck between my legs. The only thing that scares me is that I’m afraid subconsciously in the back of my head I’m thinking I’ll do no contact until he contacts me first.
Hey Complicated,
Of course, Grace and Fearless have said it all as your situation is not unique, sorry. I lived it too as did many wonderful ladies (and men) who comment here. I’d like to lend my support to getting back on the NC wagon. I fell off and drug my sad, sorry arse back on the wagon before I committed. You’ve got to commit to NC and to yourself. You’ve got the FBG going strong as did I. Have you read Natalie’s latest post about the “Dreamer and the Shopper”? When I was first dealing with NC, I was stuck in what Natalie describes a “sustained period of continuing a ‘connection’ mentally that’s ceased in real life with the help of the internet, and then those who use the flimsiest of connections as a springboard to create a connection and relationship in their imagination that far surpasses reality.” It may be what you are doing at this point? A few late night compliments via TEXT are simply CRUMBS. Do you suppose he managed to get a few text messages out to you around midnight after dinner with his wife, a movie with his wife, and making love with his wife? And you got a TEXT! That is the relationship crack Natalie talks about, only there’s no relationship in reality, it’s just crack. Cheating MM’s are not like deer. Cheating MM’s are unavailable lying assclowns. So sorry. I know your pain. Your lying, cheating ex MM is telling you in very clear language why he can just “disconnect”. He is married to his wife and is not leaving her. As a former OW, it took me a long time (and a lot of wonderful support from Natalie and the comments on this blog) to realize, he has a wife. It seems odd to me now that I could simply deny the plain, obvious reality that he was married and NOT my boyfriend, despite his protestations that we were “s**lmates”. I might have well just walked around in a Cinderella costume as I was so living in a fantasy. It wasn’t until his wife put a tail on him, caught us red-handed, and hacked his email/texts that I realized he was married and cheating on his wife of 27 years. That pretty well ended the dream or nightmare! Stick to NC, no matter what crumb text he sends. Otherwise, it’s just more pain. For me, the pain of being the OW was greater than the pain of NC. Stay strong. Hope to hear back.
Hi runnergirl,
Good to hear from you. It does feel like “relationship crack”! When I hear from him, I’m on the top of the world and nothing is unattainable. But when I don’t hear from him, I have this sinking, empty feeling in my chest. It is like withdrawl. For me, it’s been so much better to just communicate and not have to walk around with the “person cut out” in my chest as Natalie called it,and the heaviness in my heart that I may never hear from him again. I have to move past this and even wrote a goodbye letter last night (didn’t send it just wrote out everything I’ve been thinking and why I was saying goodbye). Did you send a letter or anything or just go cold turkey not saying anything and ignoring any communication? How long did it take him to contact you and how did you react? Sorry for the questions, I’m just trying to build up my armor and protection for myself. 15 years of thoughts and feelings is alot to let go of. Hope to hear from you soon.
The “Friend Card” = I don’t want a relationship with you. I don’t want to commit to you. I don’t really want you in that sense at all. In fact, I don’t want anything that doesn’t fall under the “casual” category. I want to keep you in my back pocket and in the back burner of my life so that should I need easy/convenient sex, an ego stroke or however else I can use you…. you’ll be handy.
I’m sure we ALL have that one EUB (Emotionally Unavailable Bastard) who doesn’t really want us, but just can’t seem to let go of us lurking in our lives. Unfortunately, I know some women who think that just because these men seem to be “sticking around”, that there might actually be something potentially real there………. NEWSFLASH: There isn’t! Quite ironic how these AC’s only seem to “want” you and chase after you when you become unavailable to them. The only way to deal with these ones is to go cold turkey and keep reinforcing No Contact. It may even take years until they finally get the message. The Rule: You must remain strong & consistent. I have an EUM who I’m on the verge of going No Contact with because simply saying “No” isn’t sinking through to him. Thing is, he hasn’t pissed me off enough for me to enforce NC. He falls under the “Likeable EUM” category because he’s pretty honest about being emotionally unavailable and is not a deceitful assclown.
NML I need your comment on my question:
I was involved emotionally with a man who has a NPD for four years in a constant off-and-on relationship; now, after two years of no-contact he appeared asking for friendship?!! Will he ever stop poking into my life? should I do anything or just keep on ignoring him, his, calls, sms’……….??
Hi Complicated,
Good to hear from you and your questions are spot on with regards to NC. I wasn’t the perfect NC role model. For the first seven months,when he poked around in my life, I responded in order to get my crack hit and I’d poke around in his life as well. I was an addict. We were on a 90-day cycle. 90 days NC. Then one of us would break NC. It did no good. The momentary crack high was followed by an incredibly low, just as Natalie describes. Every single time I broke NC, I realized he wanted to hit the reset button: He wanted a mistress; I wanted a committed relationship. Poking around in each other’s life simply prolonged the hurt, anger, and sadness. Worse the crack hit/contact set me back. After the July “Suck it and See” experience, I’m not even tempted to take a hit off the mistress crack pipe. I never sent my Unsent Letter, which is why it’s called an “Unsent Letter”, although I threatened to do so and the wonderful folks on this blog talked sense into me. I kept writing and writing and writing until I’d written, cried, stomped my feet, and thrown all my toys out of the pram. I raged on this blog since last December (thank you all for your patience with me). After the writing, raging, crying, stomping, and throwing my toys, I realized (I think), I unloaded him. I just had to suck it up. Either I could be his mistress forever or I could move on and find someone who is available for a committed relationship. It ended up being MY CHOICE, although I wanted to blame him and place the burden on him for not chosing me, even though he was always up for a shag. It’s YOUR CHOICE too. How long to you want to prolong your misery by getting a momentary high? Is the high as high as the low is low?
Runner:
“I just had to suck it up.”
That’s a very American expression to me! But it is exctly right. Well put. We can stomp and throw as many fits and rages as we want, we can cry and weep and howl at the moon and suck it and see and hope and want and howl again and suck it and see again…. all as long as we want… but when we eventually get that it is what it is and no amount of howling will ever make it anything else, a light comes on: we actually do just ‘have to suck it up’.
That’s when we really get what this is all about – it’s not about looking for ways to fix it, Complicated – it’s really really not! It’s about accpeting the harsh, blunt and painful reality that NC is all that’s left and we need to just – suck it up!
Hi Runnergirl,
The high is definitely not as high as the low is low. I found myself last week lying in bed with a horrible migraine and crying because I hadn’t heard from him in a day or so. The realistic part of me was thinking “how stupid can you be, it’s time to move on, there’s nothing he can give me that I want” and the other part of me was saying maybe I’ll hear from him soon. Ugh. The 12 inches between my head and heart are the longest journey I’ve ever taken. I read that quote somewhere. Sure enough, I heard from him the next morning…and oh, was he blowing hot again. This time, he said he wanted to start sending “pictures” to each other. Umm, ya not gonna happen. This made me feel a little sick to my stomach to be honest. This person doesn’t know how they feel about me after 3yrs, but wants to start sending “pictures” to each other??!! The lightbulb started to flicker in my head. Funny thing is, I’m starting to see what everyone is saying about how they want to talk to you on their terms. When I send him a message, sometimes he’ll respond and sometimes he won’t. There’s nothing he can give me that I want so I just don’t understand why I even bother sticking around hoping for stupid crumbs. Now I’m staring to think maybe there’s something completely wrong with me if I can’t move on past this and see him for what he really is….married, unavailable, and basically no good (to me or his wife). Just wish I didn’t feel so empty when I didn’t hear from him. I’m going to keep journaling and reading from all of you and praying that I can get the strength to get out of this mess. Please keep the comments coming. Thanks!!!
complicated
You just have to grit your teeth and stop responding Cut him off.. I went down the exact same route with the MM last year – with the texts and the sexting. For a time, I imagined that he was full of love and yearning for me. But I realised that ALL HE WANTED was the texting and pictures. Don’t forget, that while you are single, alone, not seeing anyone else, and utterly dependent on him, HE is married, sexing his wife (possibly after being turned on by you), enjoying a full family life. His experience of this is not your experience. He has it all and more. You get a few texts every now and then.
It’s like he has a full buffet meal in front of him but will pop out every now and then for a change of scene. You’re just a bit of variety to his life. It’s not that hard to understand, throughout history, powerful men have had harems of women. Even if there was a favoured woman, they like the OPTION of others. It gives them a kick.
The MM texted (of course) that he always wanted to be a part of my life. What does that actually mean? He just wanted to dip in and out at his convenience, from a distance, and for me just to be there ready and waiting.
I’m better than that and so are you!
Hi Grace,
My MM made a similar comment earlier this year saying “You won’t lose me from your life, we have a special bond that I treasure.” Ugh. Just typing that makes me want to throw up. I do wish sometimes I could throw up and get out this poison that’s inside of me (at least that’s how it feels). I heard from him today after nothing since this past weekend. I made it all of 40 minutes, yep, a measly 40 minutes before I responded. He asked how my Halloween was and I responded all too happy to hear from him. I might as well be the little puppy that sits alone all day while their human is at work and when they get home, the puppy jumps up and down so happy to see them. I feel so stupid! Get this, when I responded and asked how his Halloween was, you know what he said?? Oh, I bet you can guess. Nothing. Yes, that’s right, no response. Why would he, he knows I’m still here. So here I am thinking why am I so weak over this MM?? Prayers, good thoughts, anything is needed. I feel so ridiculous. I can’t even sleep at night without him being in my dreams in one way or another. My mind and subconscious are so infested with him. If he was a drug, I’d have overdosed by now. Ugh!!
Complicated: sounds as though you also want to have the last word. Since it seems that this guy will sniff around if you stop contact, and that you find that hard to resist, I suggest focusing on knowing that NC will mean blocking him. Whatever works for you: either wait until he texts once more and you can respond with “I’m not interested anymore. You won’t be hearing from me again.” Or simply block him right now.
I understand the temptation, believe me. It has been almost a year now since my last contact with my ex (who did keep trying to stay in touch, when I’d asked for space, and I not-so-secretly-to-BR-readers enjoyed it on one level). Every time they contact it’s the same sweet syrup at first, with that bitter bitter aftertaste of their indifference that lingers long after. Sometimes I still remember the sweetness, but am so glad for NC because I do not need to ever feel that bitterness of having wasted on him even a moment more of my valuable time or attention.
We have ALL been there. Runnergirl and Grace are right. It’s not complicated. Block him: all text, all email, phone, fb, tinfoil antenna, block block block.
Then start to breathe.
Oh dear lord Complicated….he now wants pictures? I’m glad there’s a light flickering for you. This guy is a total cad. Of course, you realize that sexting (I’m assuming he doesn’t simply want to see pics of you gardening and cleaning the toilet) isn’t going to get you a committed, healthy relationship based on trust, love, and respect, right? Do you think that if this sad situation spontaneously combusted into a “relationship” that you could ever trust him? Or would you be in total Columbo mode every time he texted? I had to treat myself like I was withdrawing from a powerful drug. I knew the only way out was to cut contact and eventually I got there with the help of Natalie, this blog, and his wife! Lot’s of folks on this site have done it, despite the intense withdrawal symtoms, and you can too if you commit. Once you detox, you can start to address the empty feeling. Filling up the empty feeling with sexting a MM isn’t going to work. It’ll leave you even more empty and depleted. You can do it. Actually, you’ve got to do it for you. I wish I could cut him off for you but nobody can do it but you.
@Fearless, I didn’t realize “Suck it up” was an American expression. It does mean accepting the harsh, blunt, painful reality that there’s nothing left but NC. It is better not having them poking around trying to keep a foothold in nothingness. Hang in there!
Runnergirl,
I wish you could cut him off for me too. I never heard back from him yesterday and no texts today. I didn’t send anything today either. Taking it one day at a time. Part of me can’t help but wonder why he didn’t contact me today and the other part of me is fighting to not contact him. To be honest, sometimes I wish he was one of those men I read about on here that keep trying to reach their FBG…at least the FBG gets the satisfaction of watching the texts come in and hitting delete. In my situation, he won’t even make the effort for me. Yes, that should tell me something right there. I’ve been living off crumbs for the past 3 years, so maybe it’s become a way of life..a way of life I know I have to change. I just hate that I want to hear from him so badly. I want to get to the point where I don’t care whether or not he contacts me. He’s been a part of me for 3yrs now. I once heard the opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference. I still love the stupid MM but want so badly to disconnect and feel ‘indifferent’. I took off work today and slept lots. I simply feel numb when I don’t feel like crying. This whole experience is starting to drain the life and joy out of me.
Magnolia – you are right, I do want the last word. Unfortunately, if i stop contacting him, he wont be burning up my phone trying to reach me to give me the last word. I’d have to initiate contact…just to have the last word. I know all to well the whole bittersweet feelings. How did you succeed with NC??? Any tips would be appreciated.
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!
To b totally honest i didnt know what an EUM was before this site. I am going to admit im married and so is he. I have never had an affair before and nor was i planning to. I met him online and he was so hot in pursuit when we first exchanged numbers and yes you guessed it he would only text never call me. I found this very strange until i realized what i was dealing with. He pursued hard until unfortunately it paid off and he got what he wanted. He was still around 4 months later but not as hot as he was to begin with and you guessed it again i became the pursuer 2 weeks ago he said he was going away and he will text me the following tuesday guess what heard nothing not a peep. I texted like a crazy lady for 2 days getting upset over it. The things these men make us resort too. It hurts but i am moving until 2 days ago he texted me “Hi babe sorry you havent heard from me i have been in hospital, i just got out, no money on my phone, i will put money and text you in the next couple of days and tell you all about it. How have you been”. I did not reply and nor am i ever giving him the time of day again. We as women are worth more dont let these losers into your life.
Dearest Natalie, I have been reading your articles for over a year, now. I was trying to figure out if I was crazy. My BF of two years, was referred to, as the biggest Narcissist, my friend had ever met. So in my confusion, on one of my FB pages, I noticed an article about Emotionally Unavailable Men, a light went off, as I read article after article, blog after blog. This man, which I fell head over heels, in Love with, turns out to be the classic, well, everything. Narcissist, EUM, AC. He is an amazing man in his productive life, just an absolute mess in a relationship. I have been Managed Down, probably to a 2 or 3, most of the time. I’ve had the reset button pushed innumerable times, hung up on, whenever I demanded more than the Status Quo, then blown off for 48 hours, until he cooled off, and pushed the reset button, again. He “blows Hot and Cold, and Lukewarm.” I was told on more than one occassion, that, “we should just enjoy the time we have together, why do I have to “push”, and not just “go with the flow”?” He would start fights, when I would ask when we would see each other, again, at the end of my “booty call.” He thinks because he’s not a cheater, or a beater, he’s the perfect catch. This is bad, I know it, I told him off, and gave him the “break up call”, last week, and NC’d for a week, guess who calls to check on my ailing father a week later? His number is blocked, and he calls my business phone. I went on two dates last week trying to get on with my life, but he just “drops” in when it’s convenient. I swear he has a tracking program on my phone, he always seems to know when I have been out of my “usual” pattern. I live in a small town, and I know he has spies, reporting on me. I date off the mountain, ’cause I don’t think my personal life is anybody’s business. I am a successful business woman, and homeowner, and it seems most men tend to run from me, because they fear the responsibility of my lifestyle. So I welcome his attention, even though I know better. I have turned into “damaged goods,” and I don’t even know how I got here.
Dearest Natalie, I have been reading your articles for over a year, now. I was trying to figure out if I was crazy. My BF of two years, was referred to, as the biggest Narcissist, my friend had ever met. So in my confusion, on one of my FB pages, I noticed an article about Emotionally Unavailable Men, a light went off, as I read article after article, blog after blog. This man, which I fell head over heels, in Love with, turns out to be the classic, well, everything. Narcissist, EUM, AC. He is an amazing man in his productive life, just an absolute mess in a relationship. I have been Managed Down, probably to a 2 or 3, most of the time. I’ve had the reset button pushed innumerable times, hung up on, whenever I demanded more than the Status Quo, then blown off for 48 hours, until he cooled off, and pushed the reset button, again. He “blows Hot and Cold, and Lukewarm.” I was told on more than one occassion, that, “we should just enjoy the time we have together, why do I have to “push”, and not just “go with the flow”?” He would start fights, when I would ask when we would see each other, again, at the end of my “booty call.” He thinks because he’s not a cheater, or a beater, he’s the perfect catch. This is bad, I know it, I told him off, and gave him the “break up call”, last week, and NC’d for a week, guess who calls to check on my ailing father a week later? His number is blocked, and he calls my business phone. I went on two dates last week trying to get on with my life, but he just “drops” in when it’s convenient. I swear he has a tracking program on my phone, he always seems to know when I have been out of my “usual” pattern. I live in a small town, and I know he has spies, reporting on me. I date off the mountain, ’cause I don’t think my personal life is anybody’s business. I am a successful business woman, and homeowner, and it seems most men tend to run from me, because they fear the responsibility of my lifestyle. So I welcome his attention, even though I know better. I have turned into “damaged goods,” and I don’t even know how I got here.