How To Cope With Being The Other Woman

A Note - Due to the sheer volume of comments on the original version of this post, I have had to repost it as the page could not be displayed. Comments will remain open on this post until the discussion board is set up and then they will be closed to prevent slow running of the site. Thanks to the many women that posted on the original.

1. Have your escape route planned. If you have any sense of self worth planned, don’t be banking on being the other woman forever. Either get the commitment you want and be the starring role instead of the understudy, or get out. Set a time limit and stick to it.

2. Don’t be burning up energy making empty threats. Sometimes an ultimatum is needed to bring things to a head, but if you have no intention of actually following through - you’ll look like a dipstick and then he knows that he doesn’t actually have to make a decision. An ultimatum is an ultimatum for a reason which means there should only be ONE.
3. Do tell someone but do ensure that you tell someone who isn’t going to blow the lid on things. Keeping things to yourself will be a big strain emotionally and you need someone who you can confide in, sanity check things with and who will also tell you that you should be doing better.

4. Don’t get pregnant in an attempt to force his hand. The only person you’re ‘trapping’ is yourself. A baby is for life…not for using as a tool to get what you want.

5. Get a life. Don’t make him the focal point of your existence and don’t be afraid to spend time on your own and certainly spend time with friends and family. The better you feel about yourself, the quicker you’ll come to your senses about being the other woman. Also if you make him the focus of your existence, it gives him supreme control and makes you very dependent on him. Not good!

6. Don’t be doing the chasing. How can you be spending so much energy running after a man who is throwing you the crumbs of his attention?

7. Keep it real. You are the other woman, he belongs to someone else, this isn’t a good indicator of how much he can be trusted and he is probably having sex with his girlfriend/wife. This doesn’t mean he loves you - it means he’s greedy, indecisive, cowardly and a cheat.

8. Don’t slag off the girlfriend or wife. It will do you no favours and makes you appear to be jealous and childish. It’s a difficult situation but he is with this person and whatever reason he has come up with being with you and cheating on her, he hasn’t left her and he’s still with her.

9. Don’t turn into a stalker. The moment you feel yourself going off the rails and wanting to follow him, cut up his clothes, follow his girlfriend/wife, hang around at his kids school, fake pregnancies, fake diseases and any other devious or attention seeking carry-on, it’s time to abort the mission and bail out.

10. Don’t cope with being the other woman. Get out and be with a man that isn’t someone else’s. Take off the rose tinted glasses and particularly if you have been with him for an extended period of time, you need to let go. It doesn’t take that long to leave someone and he is emotionally unavailable no matter what he says. If he really did love you, he’d put himself in a position to actually be with you properly. Don’t let him convince you that he is the best you can do for yourself - you are better than playing second best.

Recently added article - Breaking up and getting over married men
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Posted on Monday, April 30th, 2007 and is filed under Being The Other Woman, Emotional Unavailability, Love and Relationships. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

353 Responses to “How To Cope With Being The Other Woman”

Grace May 1st, 2007, 6:52 am

~ been there / done that!

in retrospect, the saying i heard many years later, is what i endorse, and would offer as comment:

“If its NOT any good, why bother?, and if it IS any good, you will BOTH be sorry.”

SO: …why go there?

look after yourSELVES.
LS May 1st, 2007, 6:23 pm

Ok ladies, we have a new site since our old one had to be shut down, here is the link and I hope everyone joins so we can keep the support system going for one another! ***************Edited by NML!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******** Please note that the site is NOT closing and these pages will still be available, you just won’t be able to comment on these two posts!!! The forum is just an additional part of the blog and not a replacement for the site. Thanks LS for posting the message!************

http://baggagereclaim.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Everyone please come and join and keep talking!!

LS
LS May 1st, 2007, 6:27 pm

Ladies that were on the old site that had to be closed down due to how many comments we are posting here is the new site that we can go to to continue posting on being the OW ***************Edited by NML!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******** Please note that the site is NOT closing and these pages will still be available, you just won’t be able to comment on these two posts!!! The forum is just an additional part of the blog and not a replacement for the site. Thanks LS for posting the message!************

http://baggagereclaim.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Please come and join this one!

LS
Voice Of Reason May 1st, 2007, 6:59 pm

Hi everyone,

The idea of a discussion board is great NML,

Keep in touch everyone.

Take Care
LS May 1st, 2007, 11:08 pm

Cool, we are back in business and now we have 2 places to vent! Thanks to NML for all her help. I know this is important to me to be able to talk with you ladies and try and make sense of this crazy situation I am in!!
VoicceOfReason:
What is the latest in your situation? How are you doing??
Voice(formerly Of Reason) May 1st, 2007, 11:30 pm

LS,

Hi, I’m fine. My situation is pretty much the same, we enjoy each other as and when we can, tonight being the last time . I’m happy with my life, I’m very independent, I’m capable of getting on with my life without him, although I do miss him a lot at times. But as I’ve always said, I have always known where I stand in all of this. makes it so much more bearable.

Take Care
Unique May 2nd, 2007, 3:37 pm

Wow, I miss all the ladies. I hope everyone ports over soon.
Voice(formerly Of Reason) May 2nd, 2007, 4:03 pm

I really hope everyone makes it over too, me and Walg9e were chatting back and forth on the last page, her situation was really an interesting one. I know Rachel had her email on the other page, but I didn’t get chance to note it before the page went.

After the page crashed I went through the Reclaim home page to find this one, chances are others will too

Take Care
waiting May 2nd, 2007, 4:13 pm

I just registered on the new forum page
laura May 2nd, 2007, 10:59 pm

glad i found you ladies again. I’m really struggling this week
laura May 2nd, 2007, 11:12 pm

can’t get into the new forum for some unknown reason ! Really missing talking to you all.
LS May 2nd, 2007, 11:39 pm

Laura:
What’s up? Why are you having a bad week sweetie? I was too on Monday and was absolutely pissed at him all day! Spent most of the night cying and I hate that! Especially cause they can not be there to hold you and tell you it is all going to be ok. I will let SeeTheLight know that we are still posting here too, so she can join.
Laura, how long have you and your MM been together?

Let’s get to talking ladies!!! I know I need it!
LS May 2nd, 2007, 11:40 pm

Oh yeah Laura do you have the link to that other page correct??
If not I can send it to ya.
Voice(formerly Of Reason) May 3rd, 2007, 1:04 am

Laura,

what reason is it giving you on the forums???
Lips Like Morphine May 3rd, 2007, 5:33 am

Hi ladies, It is good to find you all again, I can’t sign up for the discussion board either & I have tried twice. SO much has happenned to me since my last post on the other blog. I will try again. I miss hearing about you all & reading your words. They have helped me so.
laura May 3rd, 2007, 10:27 am

LS
We were seeing each other for a year. I broke up with him ten days ago, told him i’d had enough of his complete disregard for me. I’m finding being apart from him a real struggle but i’ve not gave in. He text me the other day telling me how much he loved me and that being with me was the best time of his life, he then went on to tell me he’s leaving his job, which is just one of his manipulation tools he uses when he thinks he’s losing me but i just told him that i hope he finds what he,s looking for. I got a few more texts from him declaring his undying love blah blah blah. I feel really shit today but i still won’t contact him. I know i’ve done the right thing just wish it didn’t hurt so bad.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING LADIES I’M ALREADY FEELING BETTER X
Unique May 3rd, 2007, 1:27 pm

Wow,,,i miss all my friends from the other page and I didn’t get anyone’s email or anything. The page won’t let me back on. Where’s seethelight, miracleiscoming, tina, joanne, nita,,,etc. Gosh it feels lonely without everyone. This is depressing.
Unique May 3rd, 2007, 1:31 pm

LS,

why didn’t we get a repost of breaking up with and getting over a mm? Coping with being the other woman is reposted here so they can start over. So there was one group of ladies posting under coping with etc. and another group (us) that were posting under breaking up with and getting over. So coping got a new repost and the breaking up with group got a discussion forum that I have yet to see any of the other ladies on. Also I don’t recognize any of the ladies except you LS. So where are the ladies from our breaking up group. We should have had a repost just like this for our group to. This is frustrating. It’s like trying to find a needle in haystack.
Voice May 3rd, 2007, 2:08 pm

Unique,

This one is going to be closed to posting aswell eventually, but I do know what you mean. I’ve got no one’s email from how to cope either, and am missing quite a few people that I used to chat with too.

Take Care
LS May 3rd, 2007, 4:00 pm

Laura:
I am sorry to hear that you are having a rough time but am PROUD of you for what you did and that you are remainin strong and not running back to him. That is the key to moving on. Especially after a whole year. My MM and I are coming up on a year and it has been the most rocky year of my life (mind you I was married before!), and I don’t mean rocky as in fighting, rocky as in EXTREME highs and lows that come along with these relationships. I know most of you are in the process of or already have broken up with your MM, I joined the last page because it said “how to cope” which is exactly what I am trying to do. I am not breaking up with MM (yet) but I need women like you to help me deal with the daily stressors of this fucked up relationship and also help me to understand and cope with it. Do you think you will ever go back to your MM? Do you WANT to? Do you think yours will ever leave his wife to be with you? If that is a possibility aren’t you scared of losing him?
I am just curious.

Unique:
I am not sure what happened. I wish we could find a way to get all the other ladies atleast on this one! Maybe the remaining of us should all exchange email addresses in case this one goes down too, so we can stay in touch and be here for eachother. SeeTheLight and I have done that and it has been great to be able to talk with her and help each other with our situations.
Any of you that would like to email me, please do, I am always here to talk, listen, vent my own frustration, etc….. We are all we have in this crazy ass situation we are in!!!

neeker24@msn.com
PrincessLost May 3rd, 2007, 5:55 pm

I was wondering what was going on with the site. For those ladies on “cope-with” I’d love to continue to hear from everyone so here is my e-mail in case this goes down too.
surpriselady2719@gmail.com

By the way - I’m still in my situation with MM and still loving and hating it all at the same time!
Voice(formerly Of Reason) May 3rd, 2007, 5:58 pm

Hi Princess,

Good to hear from you. I think we’ll all catch up with each other eventually. My email for here is reasonmail@googlemail.com if anyone wants it.

Take Care
PrincessLost May 3rd, 2007, 6:19 pm

I’ve recently gotten my self in a pickle that I don’t know how to deal with.
While seeing what little I can of my MM, I recently met a man that I like and he very much likes me too.
I’ve been completely honest with him and told “New Guy” (NG) about my MM and NG has asked me to leave MM. I know it’s the best thing to do but I can’t seem to do that just yet. NG is single and very able to give me the relationship I want but I’m having trouble letting MM go.
I feel like MM has really been taking steps to change his situation but it’s been almost 9 months and I don’t want to be in the same situation for years.
Now I have a man that is into me and only me and I’m not jumping at it. What’s wrong with me? Am I crazy? Any advice?
Voice(formerly Of Reason) May 3rd, 2007, 10:00 pm

Princess,

Talk to your MM, ask him to be straight with you and ask if you have a future with him. If he cannot give you the answer you need to hear from him, then I think it could be a good chance to wind things up with him and explore what could happen with you and your new guy.

Take Care
laura May 3rd, 2007, 10:03 pm

LS
Thank-you for your kind words they really do help. I miss him terribly, this is the longest i’ve ever been away from him but i know it’s the right thing to do because i went on gut instinct and knew that it was time to quit and that’t what wil happen to you. You’ve got to feel it and be 100% sure otherwise you will keep going back. That’s what happened to me, broke up with him half-heartedly and was back within a couple of days. I knew the time would come when i would walk away and not look back. He wouldn’t have left her, i guess i just wasn’t worth it. Hard but true. I never wanted him to leave her, like my independence too much, don’t like having to answer to anyone. How could could i ever trust a man that cheats and lies to his wife to who he’s been married to for 20 years? I don’t want to regret him coz’ we had the best times but it’s something that i will never repeat because i’m worth so much more and so are you. In time you will realise this
Hope i was helpful. Take care babe
PricessLost May 3rd, 2007, 10:35 pm

Voice,
Thanks for the advice! I actually already talked to my MM and he says he’s leaving soon but can’t give me a time frame. That’s my problem. I’m getting tired of waiting.
I want to believe he’s telling the truth but I don’t really know and I don’t want to let NG go for something that may never happen.
NG is a great guy and I like spending time with him but I don’t feel for him like I do for MM. I guess it’s true “we always want what we shouldn’t have”.
Voice(formerly Of Reason) May 3rd, 2007, 10:47 pm

Princess,

You are so right. We do.;-)

I think you need to look at what your MM has said to you. he’s leaving ’soon’ but ‘can’t’ give you a time frame. As you say you want to believe it’s gonna happen, but the statistics are so stacked against it working out for ladies like us.

If you like NG - go for it. Don’t let it pass you by.

Take Care
laura May 4th, 2007, 9:09 pm

Still can’t get registered. Has anyone-else had this problem.
NML May 4th, 2007, 9:16 pm

laura, there is a link on the forum to direct to register, but I have included it here: http://baggagereclaim.co.uk/phpBB2/profile.php?mode=register&sid=dc395d8a3ce93d0c84c0daf26f260e64
Agree to the terms saying you’re over 13, put in your username, email and password and it should sign up. If this fails to work, I will set it up for you but registrations are going through.
mae May 5th, 2007, 2:15 am

I’m in the process of trying to break up with him
right now as I am typing this… I just told him over email and he is not taking it seriously and why should he, I’ve broken up with him dozens of times in the past two years. I’m reading here for strength. I am a married woman for 25 years and he has been married for 30.

Here is what I asked him:

if you want me as badly as I want you
then you WILL give me something to hold on to
you are not mad about me, or else this conversation wouldn’t even be taking place

now tell me right now when we will be together
tell me at what point nothing will stop you

and if you can’t tell me….then I’ll know where your heart really lies

and his reply was:

I gave you two years of honest love

if that’s not enough

nothing I ever say will be sufficient…….

make your decision, babe

I’ll say no more than I’ve already said

I trust you

your call now, hon

and what he has already said is he wants to be with me and he wants me to wait for him, but he can’t tell me how long, he has an 18 year old he is trying to get off to college….anyway, I am breaking up with him right now.

and I’ll continue to come here for support and to tell others some more of the story.
NML May 5th, 2007, 8:49 am

Mae, this comment was one of the first in my inbox this morning and his reply had me seething that I felt I should respond. Who is this assclown? Your email sounded pretty clear to me and he responds with that wishy washy BS?!
Let me tell you something Mae - I have been the other woman. He wasn’t married but he might as well have been and he came out with the exact same crap. The vagueness of his response and the type of response he has given let’s you know in no uncertain terms that he is not taking you seriously and he has no intentions of changing a damn thing. That’s all you need to know to send you running a mile in the opposite direction!
ChasingBtrflyz May 5th, 2007, 1:43 pm

Hello,

I am grateful to have stumbled upon this site. Divine intervention maybe…. I just registered on the new forum and I look forward to chatting with “other” ladies who can relate to my situation. Finally a voice for the voiceless! Thank you.
Voice May 5th, 2007, 3:26 pm

Mae,

The guy is a total b*stard, he is deliberately putting the ball in your court, so it is YOUR decision to stick with things and put up with him treating you this badly,

He isn’t going anywhere, at least not with you. Why would he change anything??? he’s got you doing what he wants. His email back was thoughtless and manipulative. He deosn’t give a damn. See it for what it is and kick him into touch.

Being the other woman, doesn’t give him the right to treat you this badly,

Take Care
Voice May 5th, 2007, 3:40 pm

Also Mae,

When the guy says he ‘cannot’ give an exact time to leave his wife,. Or says he can’t leave because of his kids then to be totally truthful I can’t see him ever leaving.

Using the kids as a reason is endless, it’s a perfect excuse. They’re either too young and won’t understand, or they’re a bit older but at a ‘difficult’ age and will find it hard to cope with a split. Or they’re older and need help with learning to drive or going to college or work etc etc etc. There will always be something. I bet the chances are when they’re at college, then it will be. I’m sorry I can’t leave until they’ve finished cos a split might damage their education….. It all amounts to the same thing, excuse after excuse to not be with you. I don’t have kids, but the excuses I’ve read on here are all the same, all the time

Maybe not everyone understands this, But I’ve always known that my MM will not leave his wife, in fact it is one of the first things he told me, but believe me it is so much better to know his intentions, than to be strung along with cr*p promises that never come to anything.

Take Care
PricessLost May 7th, 2007, 4:04 pm

I agree with Voice! He isn’t going to leave! And we all deserve better!
I thought I could play the OW role but I’ve come to see that I’m NOT cut out for it!
I can’t handle the not knowing and not being able to plan for the future. Even the near future.
I’m out! I can’t take this and things are WAY TOO complicated now!
Wish me luck in sticking to my guns and makeing a clean break!
LS May 7th, 2007, 4:47 pm

ChasingBtrflyz:
Tell us your story, we are all here to listen and to help as much as we can!

Mae: That guy sounds like a reall asshole and saying that it is up to you? WTF! He means it is up to you if you want to wait around and be the OW or not right? What does your heart tell you to do??
Thoreauhappiness May 7th, 2007, 7:27 pm

~couldn’t help but think of Thoreau quote when saw ChasingBtrfyz name…
“Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it the more it will elude you but if you turn your attention to other things it will come and sit softly on your shoulder”
well, if we equate a loving relationship to happiness… I’ve found this little philosophy to apply to more than just relationships, so it holds water for me, I like it very much.
In fact, one of the most wonderful qualities my relationship to the MM I’m involved with is sharing of literature. It’s also one of the qualities I droped of my own free will, but obviously missed and deep down, like about myself.
My stories a little different than those I’ve read, but I’m sure a least one person can relate… I’m dealing with age difference of 15 years. He’s older. Both of us married, same amt of years, 12 - both of us have 2 kids around the same age. In fact, that’s where we met. Then over some business dealings, came to know one another & good ol’ intellectual attration set in… We spanned the globe initially with all sorts of topics in our conversations, he inspired me so much~ you know all those great chemicals kicked in! His wounds, warts and idiosyncrisies were so exposed, he allowed himself to be open… I started to see parts of myself in him I could identify with - mirroring I suppose. What started happening next, is I started to give myself a break for these things, be less critcal, etc. Through compassion, empathy and understanding of him, I found a way to give it to myself. All of this goes without saying there’s an insatiable desire to sexually be inside each other all the time! Days to weeks, to months, to year’s later… I’m ashamed to admit. I’ve gone through several breaking it off times… never to completely follow through… Our ambivelance about our own marriages keeps us from having any real relationship with anyone, despite our feelings to the contrary. At one time I’d suggested he leave her, I was leaving mine, so he had to make up his mind too. He wouldn’t, couldn’t… part of which I understand for I am have felt that way at times too. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever leave mine? What I’d do if he left her?
Lately I’ve been thinking maybe we’re both just massively inept at having an intimate relationship with anyone. Our own fear of intimacy has guided us to where we’re at… Then I think, ok, so just have an affair for the rest of your lives… then, “god, what am I saying!”
I may come off as being “well adjusted” to this position ot being the other woman and he, the other man, but really, I am NOT! It’s eating away at me knowing how deceptive I am being to those I claim to love… It makes me feel bad about myself on so many levels I can even begin to make a dent in it! How could this possible be even close to a soul mate with any sort of spiritual fate when I feel so rotten inside.
I think deep down inside, I do want him. That makes me feel stupid, ashamed, guilty, along with, unworthy, not enough and unattractive! Why else would he no leave her!!!!!!!!!!! pathetic is how I feel.
Anyone relate to that spew?
ChasingBtrflyz May 8th, 2007, 4:38 pm

LS:
I’m in the process of trying to get my story out. It’s rather long and a bit out of the ordinary but, I am working at it. Thanks for making me feel so welcome.

Thoreauhappiness:
I often times use the quote… “Happiness is like a butterfly, it settles on you when you least expect it.” But, I like your quote better. Yes, I can relate and there is a name for what we are all going through…. sometimes termed as “The Mistress Syndrome.: Another term is “Single woman-married man syndrome” and there is a book out about it. Just google the latter term and it will pop up. That’s how I found this wonderful site.

I’m not sure if I should post my story here or on the forum yet. Maybe both? I dunno! lol.

In the meantime, I wish you all well.
LS May 8th, 2007, 5:34 pm

Thoreauhappiness:
Wow, what a story, it just goes to show ME that no matter what age you are and what situation you are in, in life that anyone woman can be as tormented and confused as me and also wind up in the same situation of being the OW. You were both married, had kids, etc… Me I am young and unmarried with no kids, my MM is older by 15 years, has a child and now here I am being the OW for almost a year. How long has your relationship gone on with this man? Why have you both not left your spouses? I am equally ashamed of my situation, ok maybe not ashamed but it’s like how long can I go on being the OW. I love my MM very much and I know he loves me tremendously but still how long can I go on like this? He has told me that the only reason he is staying is because his child is so young and that I can understand I would never want anyone to abandon their child just for me. What kind of man would that be? I mean I know he is not perfect cause look at what he is doing already……….But the relationship we have is the most incredible thing I have ever experienced and not just the physical part (of course that is amazing too) I mean everything about him and I. We are so compatible and have so much fun together. I wonder how the hell he can still go home every night and not be with me? I have no guilt about any of it and never had cause I know the history of his marriage and how his wife treats him. Sorry to be so mean, but she totally had it coming. ANYWAY, I don’t know how anyone deals with being the OW and how to get through it, that is why I post on this site. Maybe to get some advice, insight and mainly just to hear how other OW get through it and get through each day. That is all I can do, take it one day at a time cause I have NO IDEA what the future holds for me……..
Voice May 8th, 2007, 5:54 pm

LS,

I don’t have kids so maybe I’m missing the point, but he doesn’t have to ‘abandon’ his child in order to leave his wife. Plenty of people the world over with children split up, and sort everything out. To me, it seems that he can still have a meaningful relationship with his child. And be with you into the bargain.To do that doesn’t make him any less of a man. There’s no reason why he can’t end his marriage if iit is that bad, and still be there for his child I suppose I’m just reinforcing my earlier comment of children being the perfect excuse to stay, even if it is in a cr*p relationship.

I’m sure he does love you tremendously, but at the end of the day,if it’s not enough for him to be with you, then what is???

Take Care
LS May 8th, 2007, 6:17 pm

Voice: I understand what you are saying to a point and I appreciate your honesty. It is not that he thinks he will be abandoning his child or that I think that, he does not want to go from being with his child everyday and being able to tuck him in at night to an every other weekend and a few times during the week Dad. Does that make sense? I know his love for me will never be more than the love he has for his child and why would it? His first priority is to be a father and I don’t feel like I can tell him to not do that. If his child was older I would probably feel much different. I also have different feelings on this due to my experience with my father. He did abandon me and my mother, granted the situation was much different, but he did and I know how that felt growing up to not have your dad be around at a young age and it was hell. I don’t want to be the cause of those feeling to his child. Nor would I want him to grow up resenting me and not being able to have a good relationship with me because of that either. Do you see my point of view or is it still stupid and an excuse?
Lara May 8th, 2007, 6:46 pm

LS,

Ok so many levels…….

It begs the question that if he wants to be a full time dad instead of a part time one, then what is he doing messing around with you in the first place. Too many guys and women for that matter think that when they cheat they only cheat on their partners, what so many fail to realise is that they are cheating on their kids too. He is jeopardising his full time dad status every time he risks being with you. He simply shouldn’t be gambling with his relationship with his child unless he is prepared to lose it, should he ever get found out.

Also I’m not suggesting at all, that his relationship with his child isn’t his first priority, but you have to consider that if he won’t leave because he is unable/unwillling to separate from his wife, then where does that leave you. Considering that there is NEVER a good time to leave when there are children involved, then are you looking at a very long & lonely time just waiting in the wings.

And while I would never belittle your past, and unless he is taught that you are the cause of any potential break up, why would he resent his dad being happy with someone? As I said previously, plenty of well adjusted children live in families where the mum and dad have separated and gone on to marry other people.
Thoreauhappiness May 8th, 2007, 8:28 pm

thx for the great reading. I sure appreciate the emotional intelligence expressed and the efforts made to grasp “it all”
~to answer some of the questions re my situation and to expand on it - I’ve been with my MM intimately for a year and a half. After about 5 years of making an effort to improve my communication within my own marriage, find it meaningful and change myself, I ran out of energy to try anymore. I literally felt it the morning I woke up and it was no longer there, that desire to keep trying. Then my focus became what to do if I leave, the kids, how to “make it all work” - foolishly/irrationally hoping that it could all happen without “too much hurt” - then, realizing that isn’t possible… Another one of the many “hooks” I have with my MM is that when we first started talking, we shared a lot about our fractured marriges, staying for the kids, the fear of ending our lives with great regret, etc. I’ve always “been further along” with emotional detachment from my family than he. I’ve had to confront my own childhood wounds that I’ve carried with me from my own parents divorce. Those feelings are huge roadblocks to ending it. I have to remind myself over and over again, that just because it was my experience, doesn’t mean it has to be theirs.
My head believes that in order to truly be a good parent, the parent has to be able to express their genuine self, otherwise, you’re robbing your children of your truth - your also setting them up to repeat your pattern, knowing somethings wrong, but acting like it’s okay invalidates their experience of the situation, including healthy intuition.
So despite the fact that I too am married, I still identify with those of you who aren’t because emotionally I’ve left my marriage. AND, I can relate to and empathize with him as to why he cannot leave his! My truth is that if he left, I would. He’s said all those same things the married men have said to you all about leaving… I’m afraid to let go of what I want it to become and turn towards the rationale of what it is now. For as soon as I allow for it to take root, I’m afraid that’s the direction or form it will then take on. -ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT VOICE HAS SAID IN PREVIOUS EMAILS… those are the things that on one level I know to be true, but can’t allow myself to accept it. Part of it too has to do with guilt re cheating in the first place ie, if it was for love, it’s more honorable that if it ended because there wasn’t love.
Also… this MM is know by my spouse and all of our friends. I know his spouse and we’re all often circualting in the same circles -our kids play together too! I keep my horse at the same place as him, just next to his house so I see them playing house together all the time & it makes me sick!
Thinking about this all is making me sick right now - sometimes I get so confused and wonder if I’m creating realities based on f’d up projections…
will someone please send me to the moon!!!!!!!
Voice May 8th, 2007, 10:33 pm

I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to see them playing house. I don’t think I could deal with it. I know my MM’s wife, and have spent time talking to her, but if I’m totally honest,although I rarely see her I try to avoid her as much as I can. I feel really awkward when the 3 of us have occasion to be in the same situation.

Again, I don’t have kids, but I really don’t agree with the whole staying together for the sake of the kids scenario. As far as I feel right now, a child deserves two happy healthy parents, eventhough it may not be together. However noble it may seem to stay for the kids, it must surely only lead to resentment in the long run as the gulf between mum & dad gets wider with time. The relationships between a husband and wife, and between parent and child are completely separate and can be sustained independently. To say it’s not possible is a cop out in my opinion.

Take Care
LS May 8th, 2007, 10:49 pm

Voice:
I hear what you are saying totally BUT with that being said I do not think that him telling me he is staying for his child is a cop out or a lie. I know how dedicated he is to his son. And I know the history and story of his marriage so I KNOW that he is not there for her. I ask him all the time if he loves me so much why can’t he be with me for real. Trust me I do and I have also made it clear to him that I will not wait around and be the OW forever. I am too young and have too much ahead of me to do that. BUT how long is too long and have I already wasted too much time?? I tell him that I personally think it is worse for a couple to stay togther just for the child and fight constantly and be a terrible example of a loving couple. So maybe he is just too afraid to leave, I don’t know. And I know he is already jeopardizing all that just by being with me and he knows that too, he is terrified that his wife will find out before he can end it himself. I don’t know what to think. Now you have me wondering again about if I should even waste my time at all……
Voice May 8th, 2007, 11:29 pm

LS,

The cop out bit was just my opinion, nothing else, and not specifically refering to any situation on here….

Statistically speaking it is said that if he’s not left by 6 months of being involved in an affair, then forget it, cos he’s never leaving.

Children are just such a pull though. My MM has 2 grown up girls, they mean so much to him, and he would never want them to feel disappointed in him. Men are as a rule very loving when it comes to having children. I know they maybe aren’t expected to show that, but they are.

It’s difficult to understand a situation through a PC screen sometimes, but if he is so terrified of his wife finding out before he can end it himself, then what is he waiting for???? he should tell her if it is genuinely his intention to leave

Sorry I got you wondering…… Take Care
Thoreauhappiness May 9th, 2007, 12:17 am

In the spirit of supporting a fellow comrad/sister, because sometimes you’re not always going to like what you hear… and believe me, I don’t want to come off as the blind leading the blind here…

I can remember before I had my own children, watching how some of my friends parenting their kids & thinking “there’s no way in hel- I’d….” etc. fill in the blank. Then, I had my own kids and I thought back about how harsh I’d been on those friends in the past… so, there is a bit of credibility that having been there done that provides.
Children are a pull, it’s maternal and paternal instinct in my opinion. I think it’s always best if parents are able to be themselves and model a loving relationship together that they stay together for the kids. Assessing what probable outcomes of a divorce are going to be and how much stress that places a parent under is crucial. I know for me, my mother was suddenly struggling to keep her head above water & I had to drop my childhood and become a mini adult, taking care of things… If both parents claim to love their children as much as they say they do, then why would they want to expose them to a f’d up idea of what being married is? My MM always say’s “yeah, but we’re not as bad as you guys, we don’t openly fight & agure in front of the kids”… go figure? If he were to say the opposite, I’d have a really hard time, it puts you in one heck of a position. If you say leave, it’s healthiest for the child, you risk coming across as tying to meet your own needs.
I do know this, because it’s operating this way within my own marriage. MM have created two separate lives in a way. They have to continue to maintain their relationships as if the other does not exist. Repression, selectively leaving out details and downplaying (to say the least) enjoying their company is a way of splitting, it get’s really crazy, believe me.
Not to sound cynical either… but, on some level, I just think we can’t believe what any MM is telling us about their relationships with their wives, soley based on the fact that their able to actively be deceiving on a long term basis. Let’s face it, whenever you meet someone new, there’s always the opportunity to recreate yourself, share those parts that you want the other to know and leave out the rest…
I heard it was 3 months, not 6. That if they haven’t left by 3, they never would.

We’re all “wondering” and we should be… that’s the burden we bare when we’re participating in these relationships with MM. We’re CHOOSING this burden, why are we? Just what’s the payoff? Will someone please remind me?

I just saw my MM. He keeps saying he misses me. I pretend to be busy, “gotta run”… Finally gotten to the point where at least half of me believes I can draw the line and end it… working my way into it. I’ve tried to end it so many times, I’ve lost any credibility so I just don’t say anything anymore and hope to create as much distance possible. just dread the idea of trying to hold back when we’re alone so I’ll avoid that too!
LS May 9th, 2007, 12:41 am

Thoreauhappiness:
I understand all of your points and take it to heart especially since both you and your MM have kids. Everyone’s recent comments now have me wondering and really questioning my MM and maybe also is he really being honest with me about his intentions? It is like you said, how can we really believe what they are saying while they are actively decieving their wives, friends, etc….. That is a good question. Maybe I need to ask my MM that exact question. Why not? I have been with him for almost 1 year now, so are you guys telling me that I am doomed to be the OW forever and that since the 3 or 6 months has passed he is never leaving??? HELP!
Karina May 9th, 2007, 12:58 am

LS, my ex-MM used to tell me that one of the reasons he was still in his M was the kids. Both were in their mid 20’s at that time and one of them already M. Lady, you are wasting your time. Sorry to say this, but I have been in your shoes for a long time and it’s not going to happen. He is not going to be with you the way you hope. Think about your chances to meet someone who would love the opportunity to love you: the odds are higher when you are younger then when you are old, wrinkled up and out of shape and the only guys still single are looking for women 15 years - 20 years younger than they are. Don’t waste the best years of your life as someone’s side kick. Unfortunately for you, you will not take my advice. You will only leave him when your mind and heart had enough. I know, it took me 5 ½ years to say no more. Take care.
Thoreauhappiness May 9th, 2007, 3:38 am

I too believe you’ll leave him when your mind and heart have had enough. Most change happens because to not change has become unbearable, the only way to find relief, is to move on and change. In fact, I just read somewhere that it’s our resistance to change that causes us such great suffering. We become attached to an emotion, a feeling and we want it to last forever… but that’s impossible to maintain the exact combination of feelings you have at any one moment in time…
Another thing that I remind myself… I am making a decision, even though it feels as though I’m not. It’s making a decision by default… whatever happens isn’t because I’m actively participating in my life, it’s happening because of the decisions being made by other people about their lives - what happens between you and them just happens to be a bi-product of their own decision making, not yours. Right now, even by saying you’ve chosen you’re situation, I bet you’d feel more empowered… like voice, when she said she was with a MM, but she full well knows the heartache involved & I can only hope and admire that she not be deluding herself. It’s important to remain empowered so that we not make choices out of need or desperation. (which also consequently are major ways to send men running) If you remain empowered enough to claim what’s your’s, remain true to your identity, and advocate for your dreams relentlessly, you will come to see what your truth is. You have to live your truth (that is to honor your feelings, be your own best friend, protect yourself like you would a child)

sorry ’bout that, kina went off… you can see I’ve projected & ruminated over these issues a lot…

I keep hearing the age thing come up… For me, I’ve decided age doesn’t matter as much as “stage”… Seems to me, there’s kina these universal stages we go through in adulthood. The pre marriage, baby, security building stage, teenager’s & reintroducing yourself to the world, post children awareness of greener pastures & then the calling towards what I think to be spiritual fulfillment & I’m not talking about a religion. Point is, if you can be in those stages together, I think it works best.
I think we should always think of ourselves as students, if we don’t know answers or wonder why things are the way they are, IT’S OKAY TO ASK.

If you’re young, never been married or had children… seriously consider if this is the man you can see yourself doing that with? Maybe he’s just the right man for “this” or maybe he’d be the right man when you’re old… but not at this stage.
Be grateful for his gift however… the gift of deeply loving someone so much it hurts to not be near them. It doens’t come along often, but it doesn more than once, I can assure you. Now you know a little bit more of what you’re looking for and how you want to feel in a relationship with someone.
I support where you’re at right now! You stay here for as long as you need to. If you had a daughter, what would you want for her & maybe that’s a start for you… hugs to you, I feel your pain. Be a woman you think you’ll be proud of at the end of your lifetime.
Voice May 9th, 2007, 7:15 am

LS,

It’s not to say that you are doomed to be the other woman forever, but if you want anything to change, you have two choices. One is to walk away knowing that the odds of coming out of this situation the winner are stacked against you. The second choice you have is to try and force the issue. Yes you should ask him about his intentions, cos until you do, he has no reason to change the sweet little set up he’s currently got going. I agree with Karina that an MM with kids is unlikely to go anywhere. If you think about a child, there are so many milestones in it’s life right from starting pre school and up to getting married and having a child themselves. The reasons to stay for the kids are endless.

In answer to your post Thoreau. I’m not under any delusions. I know exactly where I’m at with regards to my situation. A bit of history to me as It was on the old page. Years ago I was married to guy who left me for someone else. Back then I was so angry with the other woman, and swore I could never do that to another woman(get the irony in that). I know what it’s like to be the wronged wife & the other woman. I think this gives me a pretty good abilility to deal with my situation. I’ve long since said that I’ve always known my MM isn’t leaving his wife, and I respect him immensly for his honesty right from the get go. We have an arrangement which suits us both. We both get the intimacy we want. He and his wife don’t have sex anymore, and when we got together I liked him but essentially just wanted the sex without the hassle of commitment A big part of these kind of set ups is control. If you sit back and let an MM be everything in your life, getting down about not being with him and obsessing about what he’s up to when his not with you are all part of that and make for a miserable life. Taking control of being the other woman is empowering, and puts a whole different spin on how you are able to deal with it.

I KNOW my affair will end eventually, could be for so many different reasons. We could get found out or I could meet someone as my MM won’t share me, or finally I could get fed up with the role I’m playing, it’s so important to remember it is JUST a role . Yes there is plenty of heartache involved with being the other woman. Although it’s not that often I have days where I feel down, I do get them. But then I think about the fact that as much as I love him, he is not the be all and end all of my life, I can function without him , I have friends and a life away from him.

From my point of view, I think it is all about attitude towards the situation. I’m nobody’s fool and am just enjoying the things while they last.

Take Care
Thoreauhappiness May 9th, 2007, 3:34 pm

quick- I haven’t re-read my comment with you in mind voice… but my intention was to say exactly what you just said - that you have NO DELUSIONS, I admire you for NOT having them, it’s not always easy when we fall for someone… I 100% agree with your points!
Voice May 9th, 2007, 4:49 pm

Thoreau,

Sorry if i sounded like I was bitching, I wasn’t. I’ve just never seen any point in sugar coating what I have. In fact I think I cope so much better with the whole thing by just calling it as I see it. I think it’s so unfair that some people promise the world and have no intention of delivering. It’s a cruel and manipulative way to keep a hold of someone. I’ll take the honesty of knowing where I stand over empty promises every ttime.

Take Care
Karina May 10th, 2007, 3:35 am

Voice, I hope you are happy. I have been thinking about you a lot, you are the reason I usually post here. You remind me of me. We are probably close in age also. (I’m 35). My ex-MM was 25 years older than me and, like you; I have also been married before. I live in the US, but I am European, so I think of you as sort of my alter ego. I wish you the best and I hope love will bring you all the joy in the world, if not this one, the next one. My mom used to say: “If not him, someone better”. Just promise me that you will keep your options open. Love u girl!
Voice May 10th, 2007, 6:31 pm

Hi Karina,

Thank you for your kind words, I am happy and enjoying my life as it stands. I do try to live my life as best I can, although if you asked me a few years back if I would of thought myself here, then the answer probably would of been no. I love my MM but know it’s not for keeps, so I get out with friends and am open to meeting someone as and when, so I think the opportunity is there for something else to happen.

I always believe that things happen for a reason whether it be good or bad. There is a reason as to why my MM came into my life, he changed my outlook on so many things and I do think I’m a better wiser person for it. And I also believe that I have made him happy. We are great friends as well as lovers, In the future I would hope that I could still be a friends with him, but time will tell on that…….

Take Care
PricessLost May 10th, 2007, 8:02 pm

I made a break and was doing quite well keeping to it till yesterday!
The wife called me at work and told me she’s ready to let him go if that’s what he really wants. But she wanted the lies and deception to stop and so she thought she’d call me and tell me so that we could both talk to him about all this. WOW!
We, she and I, decided to meet for coffee last night to talk to him and have him make this decision as we are both tired of the situation. She tired of his lies and I tired of waiting. As luck would have it…it didn’t happen last night because of one thing or another (safety issues for both of us). I didn’t want to meet in private and we couldn’t think of a place to meet and have this discussion.
In talking to her for 2 and a half hours yesterday, over the phone, I found that their stories don’t match. I can’t be sure who is telling the truth! I can think of NO better reason than this to get OUT! I haven’t heard from him at all today. I want to know if he knows about our conversation and if he really wanted to be with me like he says, why hasn’t he called me or come over. Shouldn’t he be happy to finally be out of this?
Voice was right…they have no intentions of leaving their cozy nest they’ve made for themselves. Why choose one when you could have two? I just wish he hadn’t promised to leave her and hadn’t filled my head with the idea that we would be together one day. How can someone be so cruel? Why?
I’d appreciate any advice, I’m so confused!
laura May 10th, 2007, 10:54 pm

The only one here who isn’t telling the truth is HIM. Think about it, he’s spun some whoppers to the both of you to keep himself safe. Don’t you think you would have heard from him if he really was leaving her. I’m sorry i seem cruel with my words but i tell it how i see it, experience with my x mm has taught me a lot, they lie constantly in order to keep both of us sweet. I know how it may be hard for you to believe right now but you’re worth so much more than this shit, don’t let him have the choice, i know it’s so hard but walk away, don’t waste your life on his broken promises. What he’s doing is cruel and totally unfair, just leaving you the way he has is awful. I’m sorry my words seem so harsh but i’ve been where you are and it’s torture, a complete head fuck. I wish you all the luck in the world. Keep me posted
TAKE CARE BABE X
Voice May 11th, 2007, 7:33 am

Princess,

Call his bluff, tell him you’ve spoke to the wife. Tell him everything that the wife told you about being sick of the lies and wanting it dealt with. You don’t have to wait anymore. Let him know that it’s all ok now and you can finally be together. This is the real make or break to the situation, if he really wants to be with you then the way is now clear for that to happen. But if he makes any more excuses, like it not being that simple, things to tie up etc etc, then that should really give you your answer.

His delay in contacting you, could be because he knows about the wife talikng with you, and doesn’t know what kind of mood you’re gonna be in.

Either way, don’t wait, as I said this is an ideal way to test his intentions towards you.

Take Care
ChasingBtrflyz May 11th, 2007, 3:39 pm

Hello Ladies,

I’m having one of those days and needing to vent before I blow a gasket. And, I wanted to weigh in on some of the above topics….

But first, long story short…. (I’ll be adding the longer version to the forum… http://baggagereclaim.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php?sid=6f74bf5f32ca24c7a6107a5deb1eb020) for your viweing pleasure, lmao!)

I met my MM a little over 4 years ago. He broke my heart on more than 1 occasion. Why I stuck it out, I’ll never really know… blind faith, stupidity, eternal optimism??? Your guess is as good as mine. We all have our reasons, right?
He separated from his wife 15 months into our affair. Though, he isn’t the one who initiated it. (and to be honest, I never pushed it.) Turns out the wife was cheating too and I guess her OM talked her into leaving. At any rate, the marriage was over and I breathed a sigh of relief. During that first 15 months I bought into the lies, the broken promises, the vacations, the anniversaries, and the holidays spent alone. Though, he certainly had his own life and was living it to the fullest. All the while I waited quietly in the wings. During the first 3 months of their “separation” they continued to live under the same roof and play “happy family” until she could find a suitable apartment. By the way, he was way too involved with “helping” her during this time. They also continued to have sex (unbeknownst to me of course.) When she finally moved out I thought everything would be resolved and we could start planning our life together. (After all that’s what he said he wanted.) He continued to keep me a secret. Even though she was living her life as the true whore that she was/is, out in the open! She would call and need something….. a clothes line hung up, oil change for her car, moving furniture, etc. And he would always rush over to pitch in. Needless to say I totally disapproved and was very vocal about it. I was told to stop being selfish, that he was only doing these things for her because the kids (they have 2) benefited from it. Uh, BULLSH*T, seeing as SHE left her own kids behind in favor of herself! You ladies all know what I’m about to say is the truth…. you get a feeling that something just isn’t quite right. You can’t put your finger on it and you have no proof but…. you can feel it down to your core. Maybe because we’re there when they call wifey, acting like the faithful husband. We listen to those lies they spin and we get to know the signs that we’re being lied to as well. Past behaior is a pretty good indicator of present and future things to come, I’m sure you’ll all agree.
It was this gut instinct that led me to pick up the phone and call wifey. I had her number because I was tossing his phone records. (The things we’ll do to find out the truth and let’s just say that I’m VERY inventive!) I introduced myself to her and told her that I hoped we could all get along and find a way to co-exist peacefully. She hung up on me and 5 minutes later he called. How dare I make a call to his wife! That’s what he said to me. We argued, I told him that I knew something was going on but, he denied any and everything. He hung up on me and gave me the silent treatment for 3 days. When he did finally call, he told me that he told wifey all about me. He continued by telling me that they had recently had sex. I was beyond devastated. I ended things immediately. The ensuing stress caused me to lose my job and the support of several of my closest friends. He kept calling me, e-mailing me, begging for a second chance. I was so angry and hurt, all I could do was drink and sleep, sleep and drink. When I did finally take a call from him, he was crying and begging my forgiveness. I would not give it to him. Though, we did keep talking…. mostly about my anger with him. He said he would do anything to make things right between us. Maybe because I felt that I had lost everything else, I had this fear of losing him. I really don’t know. I gave him one more chance WITH STIPULATIONS. I told him that he was to have no further contact with her. No phone calls and no face to face contact and that he was to file for divorce immediately (this is the first time I ever made any demands.) He readily agreed. I told him that it would take time to get things back to where they were. He told me he was willing to do whatever it took. I explained that once a trust is broken, it can be very difficult to fix, he said, he would die trying to prove to me that I could count on him. One of my conditions was that he come clean about EVERYTHING. This is when I learned that they had been having sex during their “in home separation” as well as other disturbing revelations.

Fast forward to present…. they are now divorced, as of December 2006 (drama after drama, after drama) and he still promises to build a life with me. Did he keep his other promises to me????? I honestly couldn’t tell you. Our last arguement was about his accepting HER phone calls and about his always letting her off the hook for her twisted bullsh*t behavior.
(Again, I’m working on the longer version for the forum to give a better understanding of the current situation, lol.) We continue to live apart from each other, (MY decision.) We see each other less and less as time goes on and I have come to the sad realization that I will ALWAYS be TOW in his life.
You see, it doesn’t matter if he stays with his wife or if he leaves her for you. I think on some level WE are destined to continue the role as TOW. Especially if there are kids involved. It’s not the way “he” makes us feel but rather the way we end up feeling about ourselves. And while we may remain stoic, strong, capable, and determined… deep down we all hope for that fairy tale ending. We ride into the sunset with our MM and all is right with the world. We have so much invested that it’s next to impossible to give up on the dream. I guess it all comes down to what we can live with, and usually it’s a lot less than we deserve.

Just my take on this situation, having survived full circle. In the end, who really gets hurt??? Not the kids, not the wife……… us!

I wish you all a blessed day and please know that I hold you all in high regard. After all, we didn’t make ourselves TOW, “they” did! lol.

Take care!
Voice May 11th, 2007, 4:23 pm

Hi,

I’m only going on the abridged version here……lol

Just one question,, when you say you had a row about him accepting her phone calls, Are they for stupid things or are they to do with the kids, because like it or not how can he have no contact with her if they have children together

Also I can totally understand that the guy has p*ssed you around and maybe it’s just cos it’s on here(so don’t think I’m being a b*tch) but you come across as extremely bitter about the wife, which appears a bit misplaced. Seems it should be directed at the one who is truly causing the grief in your life.

I guess I’ll have to wait for the full instalment……
ChasingBtrflyz May 11th, 2007, 5:50 pm

Hi Voice,

All of her phone calls are purely manipulative in nature. It’s never about the kids and always about her. Not that I let HIM off the hook. I certainly do not. Not anymore and not for a long time.
Just as an example: She calls and tells him that she’s extremely worried because she hasn’t heard from their daughter in days. Tells him that the daughter won’t pick up or return phone calls. She gets him all worried and upset. (The daughter is mentally, bahaviorally, and developmentally delayed but, lives in a group home within driving distance of HER home while he works and in a different city a few hundred miles away.) Of course he believes her and sets off to find out what’s going on which means several calls back and forth between them. Mind you that his daughter has a cell phone on daddy’s plan and so it’s really quite easy to track calls. Well, we find out that mommy dearest made it all up. She had been in contact with the daughter the entire time. So, what was the point in any of it????? Having said that….. daughter has another supposed psychotic fit (a few days ago) and is hospitalized….yet, mommy doesn’t bother calling to tell him that????? Daughter has been in the hospital for the last 4 days, mommy dearest doesn’t even bother to visit this girl who she’s always so damn worried about? Fast forward to this morning…. daddy has to rearrange his plans to bring daughter home because mommy has to work and can’t do it….. except that I did some checking and mommy isn’t working today. You see, it’s all about controlling his life. As I see it, he is happy to allow it, which makes him just as bad as her in my book. I am bitter…. at both of them. My anger isn’t really misplaced but, trust me when I say that I have a thousand other scenarios and stories that will make you wonder who’s the truly insane one here…… probably me for putting up with all the bullsh*t for so long.

I don’t mean to sound so mysterious when I talk of the “long version” of my story. It’s just so full of drama and stupidity ( a lot of it on my part) that when I sit down to write it all out, even I can’t believe it. But, I know I have lived it and I bear the battle scars as a result of my involvement. There is more to come but, it’s so damn long and drawn out, I want to give an accurate account so that others may see the truth behind the illusion. The illusion of being the other woman.

Hope to chat again soon. I really need to get objective thoughts and opinions. Until then, take care.
LS May 11th, 2007, 6:09 pm

ChasingBtrflyz:
Sounds like you need to WALK AWAY girl. Too much drama and too much shit is going on with the ex wife and with him for you to ever be able to have a normal relationship with him! I mean for god sake’s he was still sleeping with her even after they separated?! Screw that guy. I would not be able to live with that. BUT I understand it is not that easy cause you have been with him for what 4 years now? And for what???? I have no plans of leaving my MM anytime soon but if I was in the situation you were in, I would be running. There is already enough drama and stress being the OW as it is, and to add all of that. Oh my god. I would be a wreck. (I already have enough days like that!) Have you thought about what you should do or talked to him about it There is no possibly way for you guys to have a healthy relationship under these circumstances…….
Voice May 11th, 2007, 6:49 pm

Chasing,

The fact that she is using the daughter in this way is disgusting, she seems to need a severe wake up call as to her behaviour. I don’t have children, but how anyone can use them in splits is really beyond normal in my view. LS is spot on when she says there is no way you can have a healthy relationship . As you know I have been saying that children seem to be enough of a pull, but considering the daughters problems and the wife’s ability to maximise on their impact. I think you were probably always fighting a losing battle.

The fact that she obviously knows how to push his buttons, seem to indicate that unless he develops some backbone,and tells her where to get off, this situation is never going to get better. I think it is to your credit that you’ve managed for as long as you have. He should be pulling her up on all these little mind f*cks she’s got going like this morning’s effort, she needs to start being told that it isn’t normal or acceptable conduct for an alleged adult.

Not to sound flippant but I wish you luck, cos I really feel that between him and the wife, you really need it

Take Care
Jennifer May 11th, 2007, 7:06 pm

Good afternoon. Are any of you interested in what I have to say regarding how it feels to have to deal with “another woman?” Perhaps my feedback would help you & your situations greatly. I have much to say on the subject, however, if it isn’t going to be taken with a little more than a grain of salt, I won’t bother. Email me anytime you’d like at booch67@hotmail.com

Have an awesome day. Do the right thing for yourself.

Sincerely,
Jen
LS May 11th, 2007, 7:18 pm

Jennifer:
Wait a minute! I thought this was site for OW, not their wives/ex-wives??????

I am sure we would all be interested in hearing what you have to say as long as you don’t rip us all to shreds and you can be sensitive to what we OW have to go through. And hear us out as well. It goes both ways.

I can handle it if the rest of you can cause I KNOW my situation.
Jennifer May 11th, 2007, 7:57 pm

It’s cool. I’m aware of what you go through & would never rip anyone to shreds. I think I can help you with some of this, seriously. I’m willing to listen too. Maybe u could help me as well.
Jennifer May 11th, 2007, 8:00 pm

I could share my story (it’s pretty shocking) & maybe we could help each other somehow. Have a good day.
Voice May 11th, 2007, 8:34 pm

Hi Jen,

Nice to hear from you, I too have been a wronged wife as well as now being the other woman. if you would like to share you story please do so, but as said before please treat everyone with respect. Not to tar everyone with the same brush, but there’s been people on here before who just want to abuse.

Take Care
LS May 11th, 2007, 9:27 pm

Jennifer:
Please tell us your story. I know I want to hear it and I will share mine too. I used to work with my MM, that is how we met. I never thought in a million years we would end up “together” as I was married at the time and so was he (although it was well known how terrible his relationship with his wife was, even then. He told EVERYONE), we always flirted and were friendly from day 1 and that was it. Time went on and I ended up getting a divorce and him and I started to talk on the phone, emails, etc, and I was suprised at how much I liked him and how great we got along! And then one day decided to meet up just to talk outside work. We talked for hours about work, life, our relationships, etc…well of course one thing led to another and we ended up kissing and it was amazing. I had never felt so connected to someone so fast and felt like we had known each other forever. We both knew it was wrong because he was married, but he knew even before me that he wanted to get a divorce but that I had just made it even more clear to him BUT that he did not want to lose time with his child and go from being a full time dad to a part time one, so he was not sure how he could get a divorce. ANYWAY, things progressed very fast from there and he told me he loved me within the first 2 months and now we have been together for almost a year. It has been one of the hardest years of my life, a lot of ups and downs when you are the OW, but I know I put myself in this situation so I can not complain or ask for sympathy. I love this man more than I have ever loved anyone, even my ex-husband! I know he loves me too and I am not sure when he will leave his wife. They stopped sleeping in the same bed and room together long before I ever even came into the picture, it is very sad. But from what everyone has told me about her, she is not a good wife and never has been. I don’t know honestly how long I can stand being the OW but I don’t want to give up.
Please tell me your story……maybe we can give each other some much needed insight?
Jennifer May 11th, 2007, 9:32 pm

I will but have to go to work right now. It’s a long one but will get on here as soon as possible & tell it all. Perhaps tomorrow morning?
Jennifer May 12th, 2007, 6:37 pm

OK, hi ladies. I have so much to say & I am SO exhausted today I don’t begin to know where to start. Lemme grab a cup of coffee… First of all, the 1st thing that has always gone through my mind when it comes to this very beaten-to-death subject is, how is it possible to have a healthy as-it-should-be relationship if it’s remotely based on dishonesty? I’ve never gotten an answer to that…
OK, so, here’s my situ;
I am 40 yrs old (look & feel like I have the energy of a 25 yr old) & have been in a serious relationship with a man for 4 years.
We are not married but we do live together.
I did not pursue this man, he did the pursuing, etc. I fell for him completely & as far as I knew he was very happy with me & also fell pretty hard. I’ve, on a daily/nightly basis paid alot of attention to him & our relationship in every way a woman should.
This is a difficult story to tell.
There has been infidelity before (alot of it) which was dealt with etc., as a matter of fact, it almost gave him (and me; as I did not begin to understand why he’d do something like that because of how we are together) a nervous breakdown.
Yet, now, there’s a locked cell phone, way too much text activity, and I found a 5 page letter that a possible OW sent him via e-mail (which said things such as “I just want to be invisible at work so I can watch you. You’re so intent.” And, “I don’t like it when you pay attention to others.”) She said alot & knew WAY too much about him. It PISSED me off. And it HURT to read it. And pictures she sent him via e-mail to our computer of herself kissing a heavyset woman and pictures of her, shall we say, lower extremeties?!. I was not impressed. Evidently, this OW is married to a man she thought would change but has discovered he is gay. Obviously there are issues there. My take is, to be friends is cool, but what she is doing is inappropriate on many levels. In addition, she works for the same company my significant other does. Great.
There are many issues here. He is the nicest, most gorgeous person I’ve ever known yet suffers from alcoholism & major insecurities; though if you met him, you’d not have a clue to anything like that.
She obviously has issues also.
Now I have some that I didn’t want.
I don’t get it. WHY is she in the pic at all? Why doesn’t she have any regard for the grief she is causing? No respect for him? Us? Our home & relationship? I don’t understand this.
I’ve asked about the situation with her. I’m told it’s nothing. Nothing? For a year? Nothing’s going on, all of his time is accounted for. Yet, this broad’s texting him at 1:30 a.m. I called her right in front of him & asked if there was something she needed or something we could do for her as it was very late~ was it some sort of an emergency? She said, “Put him on the phone.” I handed him the phone & he refused to speak. Wouldn’t take it at all. (Huh??)
So, due to past infidelity, this situ’s got me ON EDGE. I’ve attempted conversation with her- silence. SILENCE. Yet she will not stop contacting him. I’ve seen the bill & it’s detail. She’s sent over 700 txt in 3 weeks. His do not come close to that at all & many of them are to me. She knows we live together, continues to pursue him. We are not breaking up, WHY is she doing this? She’s been at it for a year. I’m wondering why she does this? what does it mean? Am I stupid? Am I blind? Am I being snowed?
He & I have worked hard to get where we are.
Believe me, dude’s got issues.
I want to say, again, I pay alot off attn to him & our relationship every day, every night. He seems very happy. Financially, we’re ok, looks, we’re both pretty hot, communication is there. I keep myself in check all the time so in the case there is something that needs change or to be addressed or whatever the case may be, I’m “present.” I’ve always been the best woman I could be if that makes sense & I take very good care of myself inside & out. I’m kind, I’m generous… what the hell?
I posted a blog recently regarding the facts with her, she saw it & went bolistic. Why? If it’s nothing, then why is she angry? I said nothing that was not factual. I was very drained & felt I had no one to turn to @ the time & just typed. Why is she watching my online activity anyway?
If anyone can help me see things for what they are or give any kind of advice on infidelity, affairs, why a woman would hurt another woman that way, I need help. I cry almost every day because this isn’t going away.
This is so hard.
I’ve lately been “turning up the heat” around here (sexually) lingerie, etc. And of course he loves it & it seems as though he could get speeding tickets driving home~ we joke about that.. but at times I’m like, “Am I being compared to the married chick @ work that will not stop contacting him?” There’s alot I don’t know about those 2 & it really sucks to wonder. My nerves are shot. Are we both being played? Is anything really going on? Am I a fucking idiot?
Please excuse my language there. Sorry. The entire story about past infidelity with him is long & painful. I’d tell it if anyone wanted to know. Maybe I should…
I’m so curious though. I’ve actually seen messages from her that said “It seems like she alays knows when we’re talking.”
HELP??!!! Please?
ChasingBtrflyz May 12th, 2007, 7:32 pm

Hi Jennifer,

First off, I’m very sorry about your situation. I know it must be really hard for you.

To me, and this is just my opinion…. your man sounds as if he is a serial cheater, this woman sounds like a predator. A match made in heaven or hell as the case may be. Speaking as the OW, I never contacted my MM at home. I never injected myself into his life. I was the epitome of discretion. As I’m sure the other ladies here are.

It might help to have more background. I know some stories are long. I’m still working on mine.

Til then, take care and try to stay calm.
Jennifer May 12th, 2007, 7:37 pm

Why would any woman settle for discretion? Please don’t take offense to that. What is the reason? I couldn’t allow myself to be kept a secret… I really want to understand it all. Calm~ I’m strong I suppose, but, shaking @ the moment. I’ll give more background soon.
ChasingBtrflyz May 12th, 2007, 7:50 pm

Discretion because I didn’t want his kids to get hurt. His wife was/is a worthless POS, that will never change. I look 4ward to hearing your story. Writing can be very helpful when you’re trying to figure things out. I’m finding that out myself right now, lol.

Take care.
Thoreauhappiness May 12th, 2007, 8:19 pm

God, are we all completely riddled by numorous wounds… We and the one’s we love have our drawbacks, warts and scar’s. I’m inspired by everyone’s desire to understand themselves, MM, OW’s, kids, spouses, etc.
Lately, my focus has been on trying to understand:
1. Why I play second fiddle
2. How people can cheat and still maintain relationships as if nothing is wrong.
3. What is at the core of what it would feel like to let go, and stop these destructive relations… The empty feeling, pain? Why is it so intollerable to feel? Why is it that I can’t seem to give myself what I need and look for external things (relationships, food, sex, etc) to mask the pain… heavy stuff, with endless possible answers…
Hang in there everyone, I hear a lot of hearts hurting & even though I’d never wish this upon anyone, it makes me feel more sane to know I’m not alone. ~may the force be with you!
Jennifer May 12th, 2007, 8:22 pm

It’s unfortunate that a wife can be a pos to her husband and that anyone can have such disregard for their marriage to the point of letting things go to crap. Vows are very serious words that I believe should be honored every day. I mean, no one’s perfect for Christ’ sake but the things I’ve seen over this past year have blown my mind. That’s not easy to do. I’m really looking for help/insight as to why this chick he works with is doing this & why she doesn’t seem to care about what it’s doing to me-and believe me- she knows very well how I feel about it. So does he. What’s the point in it for her? She doesn’t see him outside of work, he sleeps with me every night, makes me lovely dinners (chef) and we’re always together. She isn’t invited to our home, etc. Hasn’t shown up anywhere we ever are in public, etc. What’s with the text? Why even bother? This makes no sense to me but has successfully ruined many moods & many days. Caused many arguments. I don’t want this in my life. I’ve gone over everything 1000 times trying to figure out where I fell short or if I’d made mistakes of any kind~ I’m not whining here. But I can’t find these answers w/o talking to someone who knows… She won’t talk to me. Only will text him 150 times per day. Isn’t this ridiculous? Am I nuts???
LS May 12th, 2007, 8:51 pm

Jennifer:
Holy shit! That is quite a story. I am not even sure where to begin or what to tell you, back to what ChasingBtrflyz had to say, I agree with her. It is not that I want or like to be hidden from everyone in his life. My MM’s wife is just such and idiot and I do not want his son to be hurt and of course I realize that may still happen just due to the nature of our situation but I would NEVER in a million years call him or text him when I know he is at home with his child or when he is not with me. When he is ready to introduce me to his life, he will. I am not happy being the OW forever but it is not something I would ever do, interject into his life or force myself to be known. I know he loves me and we have an amazng relationship. Back to your situation though, it sounds like he may be curious about this other person or else he would not stay in touch with her or allow her to still contact him. Do you know for sure if they have been intimate or is it just strictly a platonic fucked up relationship? She sounds completely crazy to me and not sure what he sees in her. From what you are saying you guys have a good relationship and he would have no reason to stray or start to stray. Other than what someone else said, is he a serial cheater? If he is and this is all typical of him, you need to move on. And not only that, have you told him that this can not go on if you 2 are to stay together? I mean if you love him and y ou feel you have a goo relationship, have you asked him why the fuck he is doing this shit? Excuse my language but sounds like he has no reason at all!!!! I KNOW why my MM is with me and I KNOW how bad his relatioship was LONG before I even came into the picture. He tells me I saved his life. He was damn near suicidal before we started our relationship so it is not like he is one of those men who just wanted ass.
Do you think you can both move on after this or has he done it before? I think you said he has a long history if infidelity no? If so, I don’t see how you can stay with him as it sounds like that is who he is and may never change, I mean fuck he is 40 years old? Grow up dude, or stay single! BUT I also understand how hard it is to walk away from someone you love even though they may be causing you pain. I can not walk away from my MM no matter how hard some days may be. I want to make it work and I know I will have to wait for him. You have to ask yourself if he is worth the work and is he worth the pain? I would say the first thing you need to do is sit his ass down and have serious talk and tell him either he tells you the whole damn story and the TRUTH or else. I mean how can you go on and do all the things you have been doing for him (lingerie, etc…) if you have no idea whether or not he is sleeping with this bitch??!! I couldn’t do it. You need to confront him and now, then you will know if it is salvageable and the rest of us can help you out.
Jennifer May 12th, 2007, 9:04 pm

Man… just looked at the phone bill again as it just flipped over. Text activity still goes on. I’m not thrilled… or shocked. Asked him about it & he denied it. He gets pissed off when I bring it up. HEEEELLLLPPPPP! What is that??
Thoreauhappiness May 12th, 2007, 9:08 pm

I think you need to take the focus of the OW. The reason why she is doing what she is doing is because there is a connection between your man and her that you haven’t been allowed to see… I believe it’s your man who has established some sort of secret relationship with her and that he is unwilling to be honest with you about it, painting a picture to you that is just barely tollerable but keeps you “in”. He does the exact same thing with her about you. I don’t believe that many of us, OW’s, spouses, etc are given “the real story” or accurate information from MM’s. They are not sure what they want. But, in my opinion, their still making a decision. They’re making a decision to keep both relationships going in case one takes a turn for the worse. So, just remember OW’s are motivated to do what they do based on what the man is telling them and you don’t know what that is… I think with the exception of the occaisional psycho OW, most OW are only operating off of the information that they’re given by your man. He’s the one that’s fueling the fire, perpetuating the circumstance by allowing for it to continue. They hold onto two women(or more) because they’re afraid of rejection, so they have a back-up in place if they get hurt. They’re afraid that if they allow themselves to experience real intimacy, which entails risk and uncertainty, they’ll get burned. They’re in a constant state of limbo, because they’re so afraid of intimacy. Maybe picking up another woman on the side is a way to prevent getting intimate with you because deep down he doesn’t feel worthy of you and fears someday you’ll see the true him and reject him. People with these sort of issues cannot be “fixed” by any of the women involved. There’s no amount of reassurance you can give him, no amount of love, etc. He has to change his own self concept, and believe he’s worthy of love.
There’s 100 other contributing factors I’m sure. But some of the above mentioned dynamics may or may not be happening… Jen, I’m sorry for your pain. But this is in your life because of his issues, you have to decide if you want to be with him knowing he may never change.
go onto http://www.marriagebuilders.com - there’s a pretty good article on what to do to end affairs, he can write a letter to her that you read & then send, he can change his phone#’s etc… the work excuse can end up being just as infinite as the kids excuse-never ending… It will end with her, when he makes his message clear to her, that it’s over.
Also FYI for anyone dearpeggy.com has good info…
However (sorry jen) I haven’t found a good website for the OW, with the exception of this forum.
Thoreauhappiness May 12th, 2007, 9:22 pm

Jen - did you say you’re not married? (which doesn’t imply you love someone any less, or your relationship hasn’t been sacred) I just scanned through some of what you’d written in previous posts’, so I may have missed some things. I’m sorry, but if you’re supposed to be in position number one with him, he’s clearly allowing for you to take the hit with this bs. To me, that means he’s thinking about her… A man who has no intention of leaving would never allow for you to see a single bit of evidence to suggest the contrary,”protecting” your number 1 status.
If you’re not married, I can’t say it’s a good bet… Once married, year after year, there will be circumstances that place your relationship at risk, he’s already failing… I’m sorry, I hope you don’t find this too harsh. ~Believe me, I know how much it hurts to end a relationship with someone you still love. This just means that there’s even someone better out there just waiting for you to be free so that you can meet!
Voice May 12th, 2007, 10:53 pm

Jen,

Although I don’t for one minute believe that the majority of us are predatory other women on here. I’m also positive they do exist, it shows to the woman’s character that she has tried for a year to get it on with your man(assuming they’re not at it) and won’t give up on him. On the flip of that, what is your man doing to dissuade her from chasing him???? Is he trying to get rid of her, or is he lapping up the attention of 2 women.

There are so many examples of why this is not just an innocent friendship from work in my mind. The inappropriate pictures, secrecy, his refusal to talk to her in front of you on the phone. The language in the email is all wrong for friends, at the very least it’s like she’s stalking him, maybe she is. I think most of us know the locked cell(usually with a code) is the biggest giveaway for untrustworthy behaviour. If ever my MM forgets his phone he will make a point of calling me to tell me not to contact him on it.

My gut instinct (although not necassarily the truth) on your story is…. that they’ve been having an affair, quite possibly for a reasonable amount of time. The other woman is getting fed up with being second place to you and is possibly doing all she can to blow the situation open. After all who calls their MM at 1.30 in the morning. It’s just ridiculous. I never contact my MM at home at all, we only contact each other when at work, usually trying to only use work phones rather than personal ones. There are so many ways tpo be discreet, none of which she seems to want to follow. Her going ballistic about your blog is another telling sign that she at least feels she has claim to him, as you said if it was innocent why would she get so mad. If she weren’t that bothered she might just think you’re stupid for getting it all wrong. I think she is watching your online activity looking for clues that you’ve been dumped if that is indeed what she’s been promised by your man.

You need to sit down with your man, and find out what is going on, discuss all you know with him and find out what his feelings are for her. I know this may sound cr*p, and I’m not condoning affairs, but it’s something that can be done with discretion. I’m discreet about my situation, because I would never go out of my way to hurt anyone, I know my MM would be crushed if he got found out because he doesn’t want to hurt anyone either

This woman has no consideration for you, your relationship or anything else. If she hasn’t got him already she wants him and is basically causing as much sh*t as she can to get him. Either way take control of the situation. You deserve to be treated with respect and from what I can tell, neither of them seem to be affording you much of it.

Take care
ChasingBtrflyz May 12th, 2007, 11:53 pm

All of the ladies have given such good insight. I’m not sure if there’s much to add.
People cheat for many reasons… unhapiness in their existing marriage/relationship… recapturing their youth…..sexual addiction….mental disorders…selfishness….etc.

I agree with what was said, we as TOW are told stories of woe. Sometimes these stories are real and sometimes these men lie to everyone involved for the hell of it. We are all victims in one way or another…. even the cheater.

People stay in marriages for many reasons… financial…. children, fear of starting over with someone new. There is a certain amount of familiarity and comfort even when it means staying where you’re the most unhappy.

Bottom line, we are all just trying to find our way. Sometimes the heart rules over the head and we find ourselves here. All we can do is go on from this place.

Have a great night ladies!
Jennifer May 13th, 2007, 4:20 am

Thanks for talking to me. I saw the phone bill. They text alot & I’m just disgusted. I tried to have a talk with him tonight. Very calmly & he blew up at me.
I don’t begin to understand it.
I asked what he wanted & explained that I’ve always loved him & cared about what he really wants & what would make him happy.
He yelled at me & said he isn’t doing anything & hasn’t done anything wrong.
He tuned me out.
Stared at the wall.
Wouldn’t talk about it other than that.
WTF???
I asked if he were interested in her & he said nothing at all.
Then the childish comments saying “I’ll do whatever you want.” ?!?!?!?!?!?!
HUH????
I’m no where near a control freak.
Help needed…

Freaking out.
LS May 13th, 2007, 4:53 am

Jennifer:
What an asshole! He is acting completely GUILTY! Men do not react that way when NOTHING is going on, I am sorry. If he had nothing to hide he would not be staring at the wall and blowing up at you. He would be calm and willing to talk to you about her. Guys only get that way when they know they are about to be caught. Especially since you just got done telling him how you have always loved him and cared for him and what can you do to make him happy and he fucking responds by yelling and blowing up at you and acting like that?! Girl if that is not evidence enough PLUS all the texts and phone calls, what is?????????? You need to either get answers or fucking walk out the door (or atleast threaten to) unless he explains himself. ARG! I would not be putting up with that shit especially after you being together for what 4+ years?? No way. He sounds like a child who just got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. You do not sound like a control freak or a woman who is asking to get cheated on, it sounds like you do everything right in the relationship and also that no matter what you do, he is going to have that wandering eye?? Am I way off??
ChasingBtrflyz May 13th, 2007, 5:26 am

Hi Jennifer,

I was going to turn in for the night but, imsomnia prevails, lol. I’m glad I signed back on. Girl…. u need a (((((((((HUG))))))))). My heart really goes out to you.
I think you know deep down what’s going on. I think you’re hoping that it isn’t because you’ve obviously invested so much of your heart and soul in this man. And as I said before, sometimes the heart over rules the head in matters of love and trust.
In all honesty, the writing is on the wall and LS called it spot on. My question to you is this…. short of actually catching him in bed with her, how much proof do you need? All of this questionable behavior on his part and he’s not going to come clean. He’s running away like a child and will likely continue to do so. You say he has issues and maybe that’s why his judgment is so clouded right now. Still, don’t you deserve so much better? Truthfully, from where I sit…. you’ve become TOW to this skank from his work. What do you want to see happen??? If nothing else, please take measures to protect yourself…. financially, emotionally, and physically. If this female is dangerous and I’m betting she may well be. You need to look out for yourself hun.
Keep venting here. We’re around for support when you need it. Again, I’m so sorry for your pain.

Take care.
Jennifer May 13th, 2007, 6:16 am

I’m soooo not happy about this. Now I have to start my life over etc….. This sucks. I tried hard… be right back. thank you so much for your help. brb
Voice May 13th, 2007, 10:40 am

Jen

Trying to make out like it’s you being in the wrong for asking him about all this is so telling and reminds me so much of when I found out my ex husband was cheating on me. Back then I was the paranoid one for checking up on him and that I was out of order for not allowing him to have friends who were women. His refusal to talk about her with you, may mean he is unable to talk to you about his feelings for her and lie convincingly about it.

Look at the phone bill, and ask yourself these 2 questions.How many times a day is it they text? and when during the day is it? My ex husband only seemed to text his ‘innocent’ friend when he wasn’t with me. why would it matter who/when he was texting if they were just friends.

As LS so passionately put it, you need answers to this for your own sanity. Don’t be made to feel like you are the unreasonable one here, they haven’t covered things up well enough to even suggest you are. If he was a decent guy he’d come clean and do what he could to try and sort things out. I actually think his behaviour may be as bad as it is so that you throw him out instead of him fronting up to what’s going on and dealing with it.

Take Care
ChasingBtrflyz May 13th, 2007, 1:54 pm

Wow, I dropped the ball on that one…. luckily Voice picked it up and may have scored the TD, lol. I had actually forgotten about it, even though my MM played that same game with his wife and tried to with me on a few occasions.

This game serves 2 purposes (end result being that HE doesn’t have to be the “bad guy.” I mean he is, obviously. But, it lets him off the hook with himself.
#1: His behavior drives you to the brink of insanity thereby justifying his less than stellar actions, which means now he doesn’t have to feel bad because you’re bitching and paranoia drove him to it.
#2: He wants what he wants but, doesn’t want to be the “bad guy” so he’ll keep playing the game until YOU’VE decided it’s enough and leave, that way he can feel less guilty.

I want you to Google the term, “Passive-Aggressive personality.” Why? Because my MM suffers from it and I’ll bet your man might as well. Not that it’s a get out of jail free card but, it may give you a better understanding of what you’re dealing with. Now, having suggested that…. don’t take what you read out of context. He needn’t suffer from all the traits and only you will know which ones he has. Keep it in perspective is all I’m saying. Again, it’s not an excuse and shouldn’t be used as one.

Just a thought….

On a different note, we have a new topic up at the forum ladies. It’s our “real life stories.” It’s a good way to get to know about each other’s unique situations without having to keep rehashing the basics with new members. That will free us up to offer our support to others in real time, lol. I think I’ll do my story in installments so I don’t crash the site, lmao.

Look forward to hearing from everyone. Take care.
ChasingBtrflyz May 13th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Hello Ladies,

Is anyone else having a problem staying logged in at the forum? Everytime I log in and attempt to post a reply or new thread, I get booted back to the log in page. Just wondering if it’s me or a techie issue.

Thanks,
Chasing
Jennifer May 13th, 2007, 4:47 pm

hi. I’m sorry I haven’t tried. I’m trying to pull myself together & it isn’t working. He keeps saying awful things to me & blowing up. I swear to God all I did was try to talk…
Stomach hurts.
So much for another lovely holiday.
ChasingBtrflyz May 13th, 2007, 5:04 pm

Hi Jennifer,

I know what I’m about to say isn’t going to make you feel any better but, I think at this point I would do 1 of 2 things…. either way it will be a wake up call for him. Either you pack his shit and send him out the door OR you pack a bag for yourself and walk away. I’m not saying this is a forever move but, it will give you some time to regroup. One of two things will happen…. he will either follow this woman or he will find his way back to you. Even if it doesn’t end with a favorable result for you, at least you have the answers you need and you can end this torment and begin the healing process. I don’t worry for him, I am concerned for you. It is time you take care of YOU. Please, do this for yourself, for your own sanity. We will all be here to offer support.
Take care.
Jennifer May 13th, 2007, 5:11 pm

My stomach hurts so bad I cant stand up straight. I appreciate the support because until now I didnt know where to turn & it is almost a sanity-lifeline to have somewhere to talk about this. Thank you.
I can’t say or describe enough how hard I’ve tried to make this work. I know I did all of the right things. I’ve gone way above & beyond anyone’s limit, trust me when I tell you that.
This is pain that no woman should ever have to go through.
It’s unbelievable that anyone could cause it or allow it to happen. It’s just so cruel. I wouldn’t be able to stand myself if I did this to someone. I’d understand it if I’d done something wrong, or not enough of something, etc. Christ…
All I wanted (& thought I had) was someone who loved me & to share my life with. I sure as hell didn’t dream of THIS when I was a little girl.
Jennifer May 13th, 2007, 5:13 pm

And what on earth is her deal anyway? I just read the letter she sent & I’m just SICK over it. She knows about me & still does this??? WTH? Why? It’s wierd. The email, the pics, the constant text. It’s not stopping & now I found a secret email address he has?! Going to be sick…
ChasingBtrflyz May 13th, 2007, 5:23 pm

Jennifer,

Is there someone close by that you could lean on right now? I feel very inept at trying to help you because all I can do is type words. Though, I’m nore than willing to do just that. Add to it that I am/was TOW and I feel a little out of my territory. The situation with my MM was quite different. His wife only cared about where her next “thrill” or “paycheck” was coming from. She didn’t try nearly as hard as you seem to be so I feel very badly for you and feel helpless in giving you guidance. At any rate, I’m just a keyborad away when you feel like chatting.

((((hugs)))
Thoreauhappiness May 13th, 2007, 6:03 pm

Jen, this guy is a being so mean to you, pulling the best offence is a good defense move! The key point is you would NEVER do this to someone you love and you’ve got to find someone who shares the same concept of love as you do. Your heart is breaking and I so feel for you. When we start to feel rejected from someone, I think it’s natural to want to resist… even if we know in our heads we shouldn’t. Be grateful for this: that you showed genuine feelings, you loved deeply and it was real for you!… Whatever this man brought out in you that made you feel so good about yourself when you were with him is still there. It’s now turned into one of those situations where even if he did turn around and say “okay, I’ll end it” you would never forget how he’s treated you… He’s done, stop entertaining ideas of how to get him back or understand her f’d up thinking. You need to lick your wounds and take care of your broken heart. You’re right, the pain is absolutely unbearable(sp) your guts are being ripped out, your eyes are going to explode from being so swollen from crying, you can’t sleep, you can’t stand to be awake… you loved, you are real! Shame on him for not seeing it, but he’s a different breed than you. What makes me even more pissed about him, is that he’s almost turned you into TOW, what a f’n jerk! Okay, sorry. Get away from him however it’s easiest, the less confrontation the better. Nurse yourself throughout the day by feeling these feelings, then taking a break by watching a movie, getting outdoors for a hike, anything to take your mind off of him-sort of.
The fact is, nobody can save you from the pain you are feeling. Talk to yourself from the perspective you’d take if this were your child this was happening to. Use self talk like that, seriously, you’ve got to learn to listen to the loving nurturing self talk and cut out the doubt, or critical voice within. We are all alone, some of us can just build up a stronger facade than others… You will get through this, there will be an end to the pain, I promise.
lot’s and lot’s of hugs to you, I hear you, I believe in you and what you have given, what you will one day give again and receive also!
Voice May 13th, 2007, 9:12 pm

Jen,

The fact he isn’t really that concerned about the level of hurt he is causing says so much. Don’t be the one to walk away from your home, throw him out. He has no right to be part of your life, especially as he doesn’t appear to have any interest in working things through. Put the focus on you and your well being. If I was in your situation, my MM would of kicked me to the kerb by now, and would be grovelling like anything to save his marriage.

Keeo in touch

Take Care
LS May 14th, 2007, 4:18 pm

Jennifer:
Excuse my language, but FUCK THAT GUY! WTH is his problem? How can he possibly think that you are going to stay with him after how he has been treating you and also his unwillingness to even talk about the obvious relationship with this woman?! Especially since you are actually a good girlfriend who is making every effort to make him happy and satisfied. I agree with ChasingBtrflyz, in that my MM and his wife have a terrible relationship and the only reason she has not left is cause she does not want to lose his paycheck and his support of being there for their child. But girl, kick his ass out. Until he fesses up or is atleast willing to TALK to you and not blow up about it, you can not go on. You can not stay with him. And you should not leave, fuck that, he is the one being the asshole, kick him out. Pack his shit, put it out on the lawn/front porch, whatever. You can’t stay with someone like that. It would be different if he was willing to talk to you about it (and not blow up and say mean things to you) but the fact that he can’t makes it even worse. It is just like Voice says, the total disregard for your feelings is telling enough. (Plus the emails, texts, secret email address, letters) From my observation though it seems like from his reaction and actions that maybe he doesn’t want to be the one to end the relationship that maybe he wants it to be you, so YOU can be the bad guy and he doesn’t have to admit any guilt or wrong doing. Does that make sense? It is a tactic that many MM use, they don’t want to be the “asshole” so if they can treat their wives/girlfriends as bad as possible, she will leave and he will never have to admit he was cheating and therefore feel better about his lame ass. BUT you can NOT stay with him, you either need to go stay somewhere for a few days and see what he does and tell him you either need to talk and figure things out, LIKE ADULTS, or it’s over. You can not let him continue to treat you like this and go on.
ChasingBtrflyz May 14th, 2007, 4:37 pm

Jennifer,

Haven’t seen you reply for a while, I hope that you are ok.

Listen, I really think that this man is putting the ball in your court so he can walk away without being the one who broke it off. I know this is hard because you’ve given your all. Sometimes your all isn’t enough, especially when your dealing with someone who doesn’t see your true value. This is not about what YOU did or didn’t do, what YOU gave or didn’t give. This is about HIM and his selfish, destructive behavior. Like all the ladies here have said, we all have our wounds and we all stay mired in this drama for various reasons. Usually because we truly love this person and want to “save” them. Don’t end up like me, full of resentment and wishing I could go back in time to get back the years I’ve wasted. I won my MM, fair and square. I played by the unwritten rules and had to pick my sorry ass up of the ground more times than I care to admit….. and I am still being treated like TOW in his life. For all the shit I’ve put up with you’d think he’d hold me in higher regard but, he doesn’t. Apparently your man doesn’t with you either. I’m sorry to be so blunt. I’m really concerned for you. Let us know how you’re holding up.

Take care.
ChasingBtrflyz May 14th, 2007, 4:39 pm

One more thing Jen…… actions ALWAYS speak louder than words! Hard lesson learned for me!
ChasingBtrflyz May 14th, 2007, 5:03 pm

Grrrrr………….

I’ve spent 2 days trying to post part of my story on the forum and everytime I click submit…. poof, the whole thing disappears and I’m not even logged in any more. I can’t even stay logged in long enough to send an e-mail to nml. This is almost as frustrating as the last 4 years with MM. lol. Notice I said almost, lmao. Is anyone else having this issue? Maybe it’s my PC????
PricessLost May 14th, 2007, 5:37 pm

Still haven’t heard from him. It’s been since Thursday (5-10) that I haven’t spoken to him. I can’t stand that! What a coward!
I did speak to her on Friday afternoon and she told me that she hadn’t told him about our conversations so that we could confront him together this week; once they got back from their trip, which I knew nothing about! I fully expected to get a phone call from him this morning, once he was back at work, but NOTHING! I wanted to see what his choice was since I think he knew we were talking. And since I haven’t heard from him…I hear his choice loud and clear!
I’m okay with letting him go now but I can’t believe that he, or anyone, would intentionally hurt someone that truly cared about him. Why would he lie to me about how his relationship sucked so much and how I was his savior and that he was so happy with me? All the while, telling her that there was nothing going on with me anymore. I was already putting up with his being married and knowing that he could lie to her. I guess it was delusional on my part to think that I was more special to him than his wife was.
More than anything, I’m so mad at myself for allowing me to get caught in this situation. I know better!
Sorry for the rant ladies…it’s been bottling up all weekend! Thanks for indulging me.
ChasingBtrflyz May 14th, 2007, 6:49 pm

Hi Pricesslost,

I’m very sorry to hear that things are going so badly for you. I often wonder if some of these MM use the same “play” book. Some of the stories sound so damn familiar. I haven’t spoken to my MM since Friday. He has made no attempts to call me. Nor I, him. Though, you can bet that he’s been in contact with that evil ex-wife of his. I’m tired of sounding like a broken record so I figure why bother. It is hard. I have all the same questions you do and I feel like the blind leading the blind here really. Why is it so easy to give advice yet, so hard to take it???

What I’ve come to really see in the last few days, (and writing out my story and having to re-remember these old hurts has helped tremendously) is that I could never compete with his wife (even now.) She is the epitome of evil and I just can’t win against that kind of behavior. I wish he could see her for what she is. (he claims he does but, he continuously allows himself to sucked into her drama to this day.) But, you know what? I don’t have to keep living my life this way. I am worth something here damn it, and I’m not going to lower myself to her sick level to get him to wake the hell up, and see what he really has in me. I have helped him with everything in his new single life. Because of me, he has a good relationship with his kids, money in the bank, a real future. If he wants to throw it all away just to keep her in his life (and that is so what he’s doing) then to hell with him. I feel stupid and ashamed for allowing myself to be so taken advantage of but, life is full of lessons and this is apparently one I had to learn the hard way. Now, I will keep reading and writing my story and I will share with whoever wants to hear it and do you know why? Because when it’s all layed out on the table, it’s so hard to stay in this place of denial the way I have been.
My hope is that you too will find the strength you need to find your way out of this dark place. You have it in you. You just have to beleiev in yourself.
Please take care.
PricessLost May 14th, 2007, 8:33 pm

I finally heard from him today but I didn’t answer the call that came to my office line and I missed the call to my cell phone. What does he want?!
The W finally called me again today too. She said she hadn’t told him anything over the weekend and she still wants to confront him together. Was he calling to thank me for not outing him (so he thinks)? It won’t make a difference for me, I’m out! If anything, maybe, he’ll come clean to her at least. Do I hurt? Yes! But after talking to her a few times over the last few days…she’s not unreasonable or crazy. We’ve been really civil to each other and I truly want her to get the answers she needs. My life will go on without him but she has to decide if she’s willing to forgive, forget and possibly got through this again. I don’t ever want to be in that situation and maybe if I help her get her answers Karma won’t be so hard on me. Wow! That is “selfish”!
Thank you all for being there!
ChasingBtrflyz May 14th, 2007, 10:53 pm

Woo-Hoo, I finally got my post up at the forum. Of course then I got booted, lmao. Do you suppose someone didn’t like what I wrote??? Just kidding. At this rate I might get the whole story out by Christmas, lol.
I’ll keep trying. I have to say, after re-reading it…. I really am a sucker!!!!
Take care,
Chasing
LS May 14th, 2007, 11:04 pm

ChasingBtrflyz :
I want to read your story but am having trouble finding it, what topic or thread did you put it under??? Anyway let me know cause I am dying to read it
I wonder what happened with Jennifer….. She has not posted and I have been thinking a lot about her and am hoping she is ok.
ChasingBtrflyz May 14th, 2007, 11:14 pm

Hey LS,

I’m worried about Jennifer too. She hasn’t posted all day and with the state of mind she was in, I am concerned. Nothing to do but, wait it out…. we’re good at that now aren’t we??? lol.

I posted my thread under the “real life stories” topic. NML was gracious enough to set it up for all of us so that we might share our stories and learn about each other. I think it’s a good way to catch up on what we’ve all been going through and I really look forward to seeing what everyone else’s story is as well. Having said that, staying logged in long enough to offer my support to anyone, let alone finish my story has me a little more nutsy than usual, lmao. I’ll keep trying. I hope you will too.

JENNIFER: If you’re out there, let us know how you’re doing? Even if you don’t feel like chatting, we’d like to know that you are OK.

Take care,
Chasing
LS May 14th, 2007, 11:23 pm

ChasingBtrflyz:
Oh ok, I will have to get on and post mine too then
I agree I think it will be nice to see another side of us OW.

Jennifer:
I concurr, if you are there atleast let us know you are ok……We are here for you girl.
Voice May 15th, 2007, 1:18 am

Hi All,

Tip of the day….. lol

If you’re writing a really long post then copy it before submitting. I got into the habit when the first OW page was acting up, saves a lot of time….

Maybe Jennifer threw her PC at her boyf and broke it against his head. Hope you’re ok Jen????

Take Care All
Jennifer May 15th, 2007, 3:48 am

Im aalright ladies. Thanks for saying all of that.. be right back. Ill give u an update. one minute….
ChasingBtrflyz May 16th, 2007, 3:42 am

OK, it’s been 4 days since the ass has called me. I watch his phone bill so I know he’s taking/making calls to someone and it isn’t me. In my heart I know he’s calling that xbitch of his. Was I really just a momentary thing????? Now that I refuse to play his sick game, she’s back in the driver’s seat? I know, I know, this is all on him but, I can’t help but wonder. Did I not do enough? Did I not put up with enough of his crap???? I am so pissed off, I can’t even see straight. This is the wake up call that I need. I know that. There is a part of me that’s wants so much to be vengeful. Like calling her work and asking if it’s their policy to provide Rx drugs to non-patients w/o a script. Yep , she does that and she isn’t anything more than a glorified secretary! I want to hurt her, I want to hurt him. At this point I don’t even really care about the kids. They are the most spoiled rotten brats I have ever seen in my life anyway. Snotty little shits that have never been taught respect, responsibility, or decency. I’m taking a dive off the high board. Anybody?????????
ChasingBtrflyz May 16th, 2007, 7:24 am

So….. I broke down and I called him….. he told me that if I hadn’t called him, he would have never called me. What the hell am I supposed to do with that??? I didn’t mean anything to him? All this time, and I never meant a frigging thing? 22 years with that piece of shit and he finally gets a backbone enough to tell ME this??????? OMG! I didn’t lie, steal, cheat, or manipulate him. All I expected, was what I gave him…. honesty, compassion, empathy, and loyalty. Did I ask too much? Did I expect too much? I can’t take this. All I ever did was love this man. I tried so hard to fix things that I never even broke. How is this fair? How am I supposed to feel? Cheated is how I feel and maybe it’s my own Karma coming back to me. Maybe this is what I deserve. I knew he was screwed up, I just didn’t know how much…… but, I’m probably more screwed up myself.
Voice May 16th, 2007, 8:23 am

Chasing,

It’s not you, you are doing plenty, it’s his inability to cut the ties with her that is causing all this. Eventhough they’ resupposed to be apart, she knows she can click her fingers and he’ll go running. Until he says no more, you are always going to be playing second fiddle to this crap.

Take Care
LS May 16th, 2007, 3:48 pm

ChasingBtrflyz:
IT IS NOT YOU! Or anything you did. It is HIM! That is the problem with these MM, we give them 110% of us and we get what maybe 50% from them if that. We give and give and of course we expect the same in return from them but we know deep down that we will never get it. Atleast from them. He sounds like a real asshole. I can not imagine how that must have made you feel when he said he wasn’t even going to call you. What a fucker. I don’t even know what to say other than it is not you. I hope you can see that. It is the twisted game they play (sometimes I am sure they do not even mean to do it either) with us and our emotions, we give so much and then they treat us like that and it makes us automatically wonder, what the hell are WE doing wrong, are we not giving enough. When we know full well that can not be the truth cause we KNOW what we do on a daily basis and all that we sacrifice for THEM. Not even thinking about ourselves, our sanity and happiness. We have to ask ourselves, “would he do the same for me?” If the answer is no, I don’t do it. Granted I don’t have any plans to leave my MM, but I WILL not and DO not let my world revolve around him completely, cause he does not do that for me. Are you guys supposed to still be together or are you broken up? If you are broken up then forget about him. He is never going to change. If you are still together, I would say you need to sit down and talk with him and find out what the fuck he is thinking and also WHAT THE HELL DOES HE WANT??!! You are not wrong for feeling negatively towards the kids or the ex wife. I feel it to. I hate my MM’s wife and all I don’t even really know her. I just know what she does to him and her blatant disregard for anything he says, his feelings, etc… She is a complete bitch. And yet, she has all the control. We don’t. My advice is to try and talk to him if you still feel like you can’t walk away and see what he says. If you think it is worth it that is……
ChasingBtrflyz May 16th, 2007, 5:51 pm

Hi ladies,

I just replied to both Voice and LS but, the damn thing got eaten by some internet predator, lol.

I copied and pasted it and I have it saved for another try later. Keep your fingers crossed, lol. Just wanted to let you know that I’m alright and I thank you both for your kind words and encouragement.

Hugs,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz May 16th, 2007, 7:18 pm

I am having big issues trying to get anything posted today, whether it be here or on the forum. Not sure what’s going on. Obviously a tech issue but….. guess I’ll keep trying.
Jennifer May 17th, 2007, 1:30 am

Hello. Things around here have seemed to improve a little. Not in a position to move yet.
Interesting events~ the supposed OW hasnt been pleased w/ no contact so she printed out my online activity (blogs between friends) & put it in his boss’s mailbox this morning. Knowing that my guy would go off & ultimately she thinks I’ll be out of the pic, etc. She’s so wrong.
Seems to me from what I’ve been told, this chick is very sneaky etc but plays very innocent around him….
Input??
Voice May 17th, 2007, 2:06 am

Hi Jen,

Hi I’m a bit out of the loop, do you mean, no contact between your guy and her???

won’t the fact that she printed off your blogs and put them into his boss’s mailbox, give him a clue as to how underhanded she can be. It’s obviously been done on purpose to get a reaction. If he can’t see the lengths she seems prepared to go to in actions like that, then he needs to open his eyes.
Jennifer May 17th, 2007, 2:32 am

I tried to say so to him w/o making myself look as though I was trying to “gain points.” I’m not. I don’t need to. I’m concerned about what else she is capable of. His boss (who’s also a friend of ours) told me that woman is bored & miserable in her personal life, and that she’s married to a gay man as a ruse.
Anyway, what do I do? Maybe for now, nothing & just take care of me? I’m growing very tired of this. Oh~ she’s been banned from certain areas at work too due to her behavior, etc. Whoa. That’s pretty bad…
Voice May 17th, 2007, 2:35 am

She does sound like a fruit loop!!!! obviously needing to be the centre of attention all the time

What does your guy say about it all though????
ChasingBtrflyz May 17th, 2007, 3:32 pm

Hello Ladies,

I hope you’re all doing well. I wanted to update my situation…. we’ll see if this post flies or dies, lol.

Yesterday I waited for the ass to call. He didn’t. Personally, I’m tired of the games so I called him. I am so well trained. He informed me that he told the xwife that he didn’t want her calling him anymore, that he had no interest in talking to her, and that she was to call ONLY if it was an emergency involving the kids. She asked if I was making him do this. Now, let’s not forget that she makes up lies and stories, that her calls are for purely manipulative reasons, and that she generally twists everything up to the point that it’s not even recognizable. He told her that her calls were creating problems between he and I. That’s right folks, I became the scapegoat…… again! Oh, and he was so damn proud of himself for doing this thing, LMFAO! Add to that….. she supposedly tells him to let me know that I needn’t be threatened by her as she’s probably getting married. As if to say, I SHOULD have felt threatened???? Needless to say, I was not happy. He told me that he really wants to make a go of it with me and I told him that I wanted to see more of an effort on his part other than his mere weak words for a change. True to form, he complained of being tired and needing some rest and asked if could we speak later. OMG, get me all riled up to the point that I’m spitting nails and then just excuse yourself. Yep, he’s pretty damn consistent.
I went about the next few hours (6 hours to be exact) trying to focus on my work. All I could think about the last 4 years and the more I thought, the more angry I became. By 9:30 last night, still no call back from him. Of course not, he was home with his family and I am seldom much of an after thought these days anyway. (By the way, he was to be here with me this week but, I failed to be the good little girl and keep my mouth shut and let his BS go unchecked so, no visit again…. my punishment.) I did finally call him, I asked if he had forgotten about me. He was busy playing cards with his mother and the kids. He finally had time for me. I tried to explain to him, how I feel and why I feel this way. He became very sarcastic and rather beligerant with me. I asked why he was so comfortable always ripping me down, yet constantly let HER get away with HER BS? He actually said, “I guess because she takes the sneeky approach and you keep getting in my face.” That’s when he told me that the x had called HIS mother complaining that she was no longer allowed to converse with him and that it was all MY fault. “How are WE supposed to raise OUR children with someone like her in the background?” Even SHE sees that I’m in the background. So, she told his mother that he was no longer allowed to call HER house to speak to his son and that he had ME to thank for it.
How do I even begin to respond to such idiocy????? Now his mother is upset with me and nagging him to do what’s right by his kids and stop taking orders from me. So, that BEAST got exactly what she wanted, didn’t she? So, tell me why he is too frigging blind to see that? How am I supposed to react to this crap? I never raised my voice to him. Though we did argue. Me trying to get him to talk to me about all of this, him saying rather rude things to me. I did not to stoop to his level. Again, he complained of being tired. I told him that I found it humorous that he had so much control. Whenever things get too deep, whenever I wanted to resolve things, he was happier to cut and run. He laughed. I asked him how long I was going to receive the silent treatment this time. He said, “maybe forever, or maybe if I have any free time, tomorrow, who knows.” I was stunned. I asked him what the hell was wrong with him. These were his final words to me…. “you need to learn when to shut your fuc*ing mouth and say goodbye.”
Now I want to know, when did he ever speak to that worthless piece of sh*t wife of his like this????????? My guess? Never. That is the straw that broke this camels back. I had my cell number changed this AM. I shut down my e-mail account and I am taking vacation for a couple of weeks. I have a g/friend in California who I’ve been leaning on of late and I’m going to use this time to try and get my head together.

I’ll try to pop in and say hello while I’m gone. I wish you all well in the meantime.

Take care.
Hugs,
Chasing
Voice May 17th, 2007, 3:45 pm

Chasing,

Sounds like you’ve done the right thing. as i said before unless he learns to stand up to her and her manipulation, you are never going to be Number 1.

Enjoy your break, don’t be a stranger & take care.
LS May 17th, 2007, 4:30 pm

OK, I feel bad for Chasing, it sounds like she is dealing with a real ass but I have to get back to Jennifer. It seems to me like she is not holding this guy responsible for all his fucked up actions and his inappropriate relationship with this woman! Does anyone else see that too? She said nothing about them talking, making him explain, etc…. Like he is getting away with it and she maybe has the mentality of “if we don’t talk about it, it will go away?”
Jennifer, correct me if I am wrong. I am not trying to be rude, it just seems like you are avoiding confronting him. Can you really stay with him and live with him day to day like that? I could not do it. I would be freaking out. I just can’t see how you can stay and not want to know the truth and MAKE him explain. More power to you I guess……….
ChasingBtrflyz May 17th, 2007, 4:31 pm

Hi,

Me again.

I just did something that I should have done a long time ago. I called the DEA in the xwife’s hometown…. where she works as an office assistant. I gave them her name and the name and address of the family practice office she works for. I told them that she has distributed prescription drugs w/o a license to her x husband and other family members. I also gave his name and phone number. Let’s see him cover her ass of this one!
I guess it’s true what they say about a woman scorned. Looks like I get the last laugh!

I feel wonderful.

Talk to you all soon,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz May 17th, 2007, 5:40 pm

Oh my goodness ladies,

Apparently the DEA takes this kind of this very seriously. They have already called and spoken to him. How do I know? Because he called my house phone. He NEVER calls on that line Never has one time before. If I had expected he would, I would have changed that number as well. Anyway, he left a message asking me if I was trying to hurt him? Him? Talk about self absorbed. How does this hurt him? All I did was hold HER accountable for HER actions and activities. Something no one has obviously EVER done. So, now I’m really the scapegoat. lmao. I hope I’m there when they lock her piggy ass up! I’m going to smile like the cheshire cat and wave as they lead her off to the county jail. Guess he shouldn’t have lured me into that rabbit hole, lol.

I am having such a fantastic day!

Hugs,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz May 17th, 2007, 5:59 pm

Side note*

I hope he lies for her AGAIN because he will be charged as an accessory after the fact and with receiving illegal drugs. Guess, I really did it this time. Talk about cutting ALL ties! LMMFAO!
Voice May 17th, 2007, 6:47 pm

Chasing,

Definately a woman scorned!!!! I totally agree with you about him, what a self absorbed little man. I think if you don’t see his true colours now you never will…..lol

Enjoy your life hun,

Remember…..

The best revenge is living well.

Even if you’re no longer the other woman, keep in touch.

Take Care.
ChasingBtrflyz May 17th, 2007, 7:15 pm

Thanks so much Voice. I think I have a MUCH CLEARER picture right now. Now, I know where his loyalties are. It’s not with me, and after spending 4 years protecting him, what a laugh, lol. Tell me, am I being too unreasonable now???? LOL. Maybe I could have gone quietly into the night like a beaten puppy with my tail between my legs. I’m just not built for that. I got sucked into a sick twisted game, not of my making. I followed the rules until I just couldn’t anymore. I blame myself for being so damn gullible but, I place most of the blame on him for being such a spineless little weasel. I know that there is a special place in hell reserved for him.
Enough about that……

I was trying to post on the forum about what songs make me really think…. could you post my ideas for me????? I really love all the songs represented but, my favorite (in light of my situation) is Joss Stone’s “Victim of A Foolish Heart.” I think you can find the lyrics on letssingit.com. Call it my going away gift, lol.

I’ll try to check in and I fully plan to live my life to the fullest, w/o his drama filled BS. Since I can’t seem to get posted much on this or the othet forum, I can be reached at vabtrfly@excite.com

Hugs,
Chasing
Jennifer May 17th, 2007, 9:32 pm

My God… I have so much to say but no time right now. For now though, why the hell can’t these idiot guys choose ONE & stick to it? I’ve drawn my line in the sand - so to speak. No more bs in this house or, he’ll find himself BY himself.
ps- skank @ work’s been banned from the kitchen.
Blessings to all of you. Gotta run back to work. Hope your day’s nice.
Hugz!!!
Voice May 17th, 2007, 10:04 pm

Chasing,

Did you tick the box to stay remembered on the forums??? I have and don’t seem to have a problem at all with posting, don’t know if this is the reason

Take Care
LS May 21st, 2007, 11:21 pm

How is everyone doing? It has been pretty quiet since last Thursday…..How was everyone’s weekend? Mine was good until yesterday when my MM broke a date with me, AGAIN. I don’t know why I am ever surprised or hurt because it seems to happen atleast once a week. Nonetheless, it still hurt just as much as ever and leaves me wondering what the hell am I doing with a MM? Of course he is going to break dates with me, I am not the #1 priority in his life and never will be. Unless a miracle happens that is.
I am just reaching out, seeing if everyone is OK and what everyone did this weekend.

Take care.
ChasingBtrflyz May 22nd, 2007, 3:25 am

Hi LS,

I’m sorry that you’re feeling down. I know it’s really hard when they don’t have the time for us, that we always seem so willing to make for them. That’s what’s so damn hard about being TOW. Did he say why he was breaking the date with you? Did he even give a reason? I think this is where you really need to have a good hobby that takes your mind off of him for a while. Sometimes, a nice soak in a hot bubble bath or some papmering makes life good. A pedi or a manicure, whatever it takes to put the focus back on you.

I’m doing ok. I’m in Cali soaking up the sun, going out at night and meeting new people. I haven’t spoken to the ass and to be honest… I really don’t miss it. lol. The way I see it… I gave my all and when it came time to give back to me, he wasn’t willing. So, screw him,, lol.

I put a fun test on the forum, take a look and let us know how it goes. Hope to talk to you soon.

Hugs,
Chasing
LS May 22nd, 2007, 5:59 pm

ChasingBtrflyz:
Yeah he told me why. His wife had to go out, so he ended up having to stay at home with his child, so I should not be mad at that at all. It is just hard. Like you said, we make ourselves so available to them and always have time for them and for what? To always get let down it seems……… *sigh* It is just the price we pay for being the OW I guess? It is not like it happens a ton between us, but it does not make it hurt any less or any easier you know? As soon as he told me he was not going to make it, I went out and had a nice dinner, did some laundry and things that I like to do. So I hear you on pampering yourself. I am not the type who is just going to sit at home and cry about it. I don’t revolve my whole life around him as much as he thinks I do. I don’t and I never will. I like to have fun and get out!
I am so glad to hear that you are having a nice time in Cali and enjoying yourself and the fact that you do not miss him or his shit really shows me that if we want to move on, WE CAN!!! Good for you! Has he even tried to contact you? Does he know your gone? He must be going nuts! Hee hee hee
I will go check out that test and post my results for sure.
Thanks as always for listening and have a good day.
Rachel May 24th, 2007, 3:33 am

Hi all,

I tried to acces to the old site in april and after many tries I gave up…but today, I just wanted to check again and I’m so happy that I found all of you here once again.

My mm and I continue to see each other at a regular basis. But I have to tell you that I’ve been so lonely when he is not around. So, I decided to date with other guys.. or at least just go out to movies or dinner etc…of course I don’t tell him anything about my dates…all those dates turned to be boredom. I can’t feel that connection with those guys I’ve dated with.
I keep fantasizing about my mm when I’m out dating with others.
Since there was no attraction…there was no sex involved in my dating scenes.
I mentioned on the old site,,,since my mm is much older than me he has this problem of him not being able to satisfy me sexually. But for me it is not all about sex. I do enjoy our sex together. I’m very well aware of his age and he can’t give me all I want. But it is not the issue for me. But I sense that he has insecurities about this matter. Other than this we get along well and we enjoy each other’s company. i really love him. And I hope and believe that I’m a very special person in his life.

Take care,

I will be posting here…
Voice May 24th, 2007, 12:06 pm

Good to hear from you again Rachel,

Make sure you join the forum as well.

Take Care
LS May 24th, 2007, 6:09 pm

Ok so I am having one of those days where I wonder what the hell am I doing with my MM??? So he tells me that him and his wife had another huge fight about the same thing they always fight about (their marriage and how much of a miserable bitch she is) and then he tells me that he woke up this morning and they had a “talk” about everything. And that was it. Nothing, no talk of divorce, no resolution, NADA. Am I just being completely stupid by staying in this vicious cycle? I feel like at this point, if he doesn’t leave now when things are terrible, why would he ever leave?? HELP……..
I just don’t know how much longer I can go on being the OW, I love him so much and he is so wonderful in every way, except this one.
I need insight!
Voice May 24th, 2007, 11:31 pm

LS,

Did he not give you any idea what the ‘talk’ in the morning was about???

it does sound like he’s not going to leave, as you say if he can’t leave now when will he ever be able to ??? I think you need to get some straight honest answers out of him .about just exactly what he sees happening with this situation

Take Care
LS May 25th, 2007, 12:22 am

Hey guys, I got more info from him.
OK so the “talk” this morning (he told me at lunch today) was about the same old shit in their relationship. He has told her time and time again, even 4 years ago (long before me) that the only reason he was there was for his child, so she freaked out and asked if he had given up and he told her yes and she said to him that she could not go on living the way they were and so he apparently told her “tell me what you want, do you
want the house? Figure it out and let me know” ……
Basically leaving it up to her to decide on what to do with their relationship. BUT they have fought like this before and nothing has happened, and that is my point! What is the point of fighting like that if nothing is going to happen or someone is not going to make a fucking decision. Sorry about my language ladies!
You know what I mean? It is like he wants HER to make the decision. What do you guys think??
Voice May 25th, 2007, 12:37 am

If she wanted to kick him out, wouldn’t she of done it by now??? So if he leaves it down to her to decide, he’s probably quite safe in the knowledge that she won’t do anything. Now she knows that he is there for the child, it’s an emotional string she can tug on when she feels like it to reel him in. While he’s there presumably the bills are getting paid, why would she want to give up security for herself and her kid??? Even if they are fighting like cat and dog, after all they seem quite capable of talking it through and tolerating each other.At the end of the day he hasn’t got the balls to leave her for you. It is just a vicious cycle that will go on and on, and it’s just not to your benefit to stick with it.

Take Care
ChasingBtrflyz May 25th, 2007, 1:49 pm

Hi LS,

What can I say… “Been there-Done that.” Literally! My MM would have never left his xbitch if she hadn’t been the one to ask for the separation. Which she only did because SHE was also cheating and had a rich man waiting in the wings. Of course, once the rich guy figured out what a pig he had chosen in her, he dumped her and she has spent every last second of her life since… trying to suck MM back in. To his credit, he is the one who filed divorce papers first but, only after I demanded he do so after I found out he cheated on me with her! Nice little package wrapped in a neat little bow, eh? Pffft!
I think my point is this…. your MM doesn’t want to be the one to end his marriage. Why? Who knows. He won’t let you go but, he won’t make a definitive decision to let his wife go either. He wants both of you to be the scapegoat so he doesn’t have to. Not to sound so blunt but, I have lived this myself. I made excuses for my MM’s BS when really, he was just hedging his bets. I remember him asking me once, “are you sure that if I left her, you wouldn’t turn around and dump me?” WTF????? I think that probably says it all, lol. I know what you’re going through. My MM’s ex is a real piss poor piece of shit but, if I wasn’t in the picture, he’d either still be with her or he would have gone back to her by now. (Actually not sure he hasn’t dipped into that sewer again, lol.)
I think, you need to tell him to shit or get off the pot. You have a life to lead and it’s unfair of him to expect that you’ll keep waiting. Seems to me from “their” conversation, HE had an out, he chose not to take it. You have to ask yourself (and him) why???? Besides, sometimes it takes losing a good thing to make you realize how much it really means to you. Get my point??? Wishing you the best hun.

Hugs,
Chasing
Jennifer May 25th, 2007, 2:39 pm

Good morning ladies. Hope everyone is doing well. I’ve been sitting here reading as well as just thinking of my own recent situation, which has improved (however I’m still turned off by it all) & there is really only one conclusion I can come to~ bottom line. Regardless of circumstances, who treated who like s*** (supposedly right?) or what the reasons are or are not, it seems to all come back to one thing. These guys all want their cake & eat it too. I guess I just don’t see a good reason to give my heart/energy/body/life/etc to someone who is capable of that. If he’ll do it to her, he’ll do it to me kinda thing. Seems 9 out of 10 of these guys are experts @ blowing smoke up one’s ass & they seem to know who’ll fall for that, & who won’t. My impression is that the ladies in here are way too good for that & should be given back as much as they’ve given by someone worthy of it all. I know what sleepless nights & bad cases of the “shoulds” & “why’s” feel like & it is grossly unfair for anyone to put someone through that. When I accept the unacceptable, it’s time for me to step back & say WHOA. Which I’m definitely doing. I’m 40 yrs old, have the looks & energy of a 25 yr old & will not spend another precious day doing the “stop it/why are you doing this blah blah blah…” thing. I have alot to offer a nice/worthy person who appreciates it. And so do all of you. I hope that each of you find someone who is available, worthy & wants to give you everything you give back every day & night; as it should be. Life’s too short, and too long for anymore acceptance of someone else’s ridiculousness. We can’t get all of that time back.
Hugz!!!!!!!!
Jennifer May 25th, 2007, 2:51 pm

Cant help thinking… Go tell the wife every last detail & you’ll get all of the truth you ever wondered about. Take it from someone who’s become an expert on the subject. Talking to the source will certainly force all of the blanks to be filled in. Stand back though. Fireworks will occur. Don’t let the dudes pull the wool over your eyes another day.
Again, HUGZ!
Have an awesome weekend.

J
Voice May 25th, 2007, 2:57 pm

Jen

While I agree that talking to the wife will probably get the truth, I also think it’s important to remember that action like that can cause a lot of hurt, particularly if the wife is blissfully unaware of whats going on.

Take Care
LS May 25th, 2007, 4:51 pm

Hey ladies, I agree with Voice in maybe not going to the wife. I don’t think I could ever do that, even if me and my MM end up together and they are divorced, I don’t know how I would even approach her. I am sure she would hate me from the start, I know I would! But yeah I don’t know that I agree with that and especially since most of these women have no fucking clue what is going on. I have to put myself in their shoes, would I want some woman coming up to me telling me she is sleeping and in love with my husband? That would be awful, even though I know my MM’s wife is a piece of total shit and sorry excuse for a wife, I could never do that to her. I mean don’t get me wrong obviously I am hurting her now, but being with her husband but that is different. Throwing it in her face is just cold hearted! Maybe I will feel differently someday I don’t know??

Chasing and Voice:
Back to my situation and your guys comments on my MM and his wife and their big fight/talk the other day. I agree he did kinda have an out and he did not take it, but he has told me from the get go that he does not want to be the one to end it, he wants her to be the “bad guy”. I don’t know why, I guess cause he has so much to lose maybe? I think alot of it is that he is truly afraid, like you were saying how your MM asked you if you would dump him if he left his wife. Mine tells me that he is afraid of that too, that he will go through all that to be with me and then have me dump him. I tell him that would not happen, but I know it scares him regardless. I guess I don’t really know what to do or say in this situation. I created this myself cause I told him from day 1 that as long as he didn’t make me waste years of my life waiting, I would never give him an ultimatum and let him decide on his own. I don’t want to start our life together like that, me forcing him to be with me. I want him to realize all that on his own, you think it would not be so hard right? Option A: Bitch ass crazy wife who is cold hearted and mean, Option B: beautiful young, nice woman who is crazy about him……..

I don’t know, maybe I am just being stupid about it all.
Jennifer May 25th, 2007, 5:46 pm

Blissfully unaware of what’s going on…. interesting. Don’t you think she should be aware? Wouldn’t you want to know what you’re really dealing with? I’m sorry but there truly is no excuse for any of that & I think we all know it. no one’s perfect, but, hey~ guys will do whatever u let them. Shouldn’t women stick together?
I have to wonder if these wives are crazy or if the guys just say that to get their way~ hence, cake & eat it too. Sorry, but, I’ve seen so much betrayal in the past year, It’s mindblowing what ppl will do to get their way. Sickening actually. Scared o’ the karma that some o’ these folks will one day see. Better them then me I say.
Maybe some don’t mind if the husband bs’s them into next Tuesday or that he sleeps with the wife nightly? The whole subject, being that I myself have been very affected by it, blows me away. It’s all unbelievable. I think the proverbial golden rule went bye-bye….
ChasingBtrflyz May 25th, 2007, 6:29 pm

Hey LS,

I know you’re in that situation… damned if ya do…damned if ya don’t. I just think of all the years I wasted waiting for the “happily ever after” that never came. In my case, I know firsthand what a worthless piece of shit his ex really is. Not by HIS words but, by HER very own. She told me point blank (though she didn’t really know who she was chatting to) what a whore she truly is. Still, SHE is the mother of his children and therefore is treated with a common courtesy that I will probably never see myself. No matter what kind of sick and twisted shit she pulls, (and there are things I could tell you that would curl your hair) it is never dealt with in a healthy or mature nature. I am held to a higher standard and that is UNACCEPTABLE. This is not a man who told me from day one that he would never leave his wife (as in Voice’s case) for me. Had he told me that, I would have run. I fell for the underdog, the poor, misunderstood, emotionally abused man. I do not doubt that he was abused but, HE chose to remain with that fu*ktard (for 22+ yrs.) and when he found his way out finally….. he screwed me over for yet another chance to fu*k HER. I didn’t dream it up, I didn’t pull it out of my as*. These are facts. And when I look at those in a logical way, I can not understand his point of view any longer. Either I am his salvation or I am just the stupid female who keeps waiting for something that I will never see, never have, never know. I’m not arrogant enough to assume that my situation is true for everyone. What I know is this…. if he loves you, if he loves his child, if he knows that his marriage is a lie….. then he needs to be a man and deal with the problems and issues that HE created. He needs to see YOUR worth, see YOUR value, see that YOU make him the best person he can be and with that, he can make a good life with you and his child. Children are not a good enough reason to stay in an unhealthy place with someone you don’t love or respect. What are you teaching that child???? (Rhetorical) I call my MM the coward because he is. It’s not that I would dump him, it’s really his doubts that I’m the one to make his life a better one. Hold on to the past because you’re too afraid of the future. Not a good enough reason in my book. When you give your all, and only get the scraps he hands you…. you start to feel like that’s all you deserve. Don’t fall for that negative self-talk. You are worth so much more than that.

Final note…. ALL married women know on some level that something is going on. They either choose to ignore what they know or they find a way to live with it. Period. So, who’s the dummy?????? The wife who puts up with it, or the mistress who expects better based on what SHE is told? (or knows in my case.)
Hun, only you know what you can and can’t accept. What you can and can’t live with. The ironic thing???? He knows this better than we do sometimes. Guess the jokes on us sometimes.
Whatever you choose, we are here for you. We are all in the same boat. Some of us are enjoying a nice row in the lake and some of us are bailing the water… hoping to keep the ship from sinking. The choice is always yours. I wish all good things and hope for all the best for you.
Hugs,
Chasing
LS May 25th, 2007, 7:03 pm

Chasing:
You are right on the nose. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Everything you said is SO right and helps me so much. I still do not know what to do. This situation is so fucked up, who could possinly know what the “right” thing to do is? How could I walk away from a man that I love so much, even though it is a crazy situation and not the norm. I still can’t do it. Atleast not yet. Ask me again in a few years if god forbid I am still the OW. I always told myself and HIM that I would not waste years of my life waiting and I won’t. I love him, but I want more. I want someone that I can go out to dinner with, travel with, take to my family and friends parties, someone I can have a child with before I am too old! He says he wants all these things with me as well, so I know it is not just about the sex. Sometimes we will be together for hours, just talking, so I KNOW it is not just physical. But like you said, sometimes this whole thing makes you feel like you don’t deserve better and I know I do. I will never let him treat me like shit, I mean he does now but in an indirect way. If he is ever cruel to me in any way I would not put up with it. I was already married to someone that was abusive, I don’t need that shit.
I agree with you also when I feel like sometimes people do MORE harm to their kids by staying married, rather than splitting up. I mean hello it is so obvious. Would you want to grow up seeing a man and woman fight constantly, never show affection to one another or have your parents split up but then be with people who make them happy and you can actually witness love and happiness rather than animosity and anger on a daily basis??? It is so simple. But I guess I don’t quite understand cause I don’t have a child and I am not in his situation. I am just the OW…….
ChasingBtrflyz May 25th, 2007, 7:52 pm

LS,

Sweetie,
Nobody here can tell you what to do. You’re heart is invested here, not anyone else’s. It would be presumptuous on my part to even think that I have all or any of the answers. I can only speak from my experience, my joy, and from my own heartache. I don’t agree with talking to the wife because (I have learned this the hard way) there are 3 sides to everyones story…. his, hers, and the truth… (which usually lies somewhere in between, lol.) My MM’s ex tried to play the victim to me over and over again. Unfortunately, I caught her up in a web of her own making. Had she only known how much she had told me thinking I was some kind of possible fu*k buddy. Oh my, I was releieved to learn that what he had told me was true, lol. At least I’ll always have that.
Most wives will make up excuses, they will blame the OW, they will feign anger only to take the bastard back…. time and time again usually, lol. But, we do the same, don’t we? We listen to his heartaches, his pain, his disilluisonment. In the end, we are the ones who pay. I think we are stronger than the wives in a way. We have the unique opportunity to watch these men in all of their glory. We learn what to look out for, what signs might mean our own demise. We don’t have to live with sub-par. The wives do. I think that’s maybe a sadder part of this vicious triangle. Well, other than the children. Let’s face it, they didn’t ask to be born to such dysfunction. Sometimes, (as is in my case) the kids end up just as screwed up as their parents are. To me, that’s the most unacceptable part of this. Still, it’s not an excuse for staying in a relationship that’s devoid of love, mutual respect, caring, and responsibility. When I hear a MM talk of his kids being made to suffer, I think to myself…. end their misery then. Give them a positive role model and watch them soar. Truth is always better than a lie, don’t you think??? So, how much of this is pure selfishness???? 99% on the married man’s part….. 99% on the wife’s part. WE have no culpability. Were it left to us, we would do what’s right. That’s how we remain silent for so damn long, isn’t it? See what I’m trying to say?
Keep up the faith girl. In the end, it’s all we really have, lol.

Hugs,
Chasing
Voice May 25th, 2007, 8:59 pm

Jen,

No offence here, but in certain respects I think this is the wrong site to be saying women should stick together….

Anyway, sorry but I don’t agree, when anyone takes up with a married man, they know what thay are dealing with, the lies, the deception the pain and loneliness that is being the other woman. To go to the wife is to unecessarily hurt someone, and although you sound quite bitter(and maybe you have every right to be because of your past) it’s a nasty thing to do when you walk into someone’s life who YES maybe blissfully unaware of whats going on and smash it to bits. They may not know that they are being fed BS, but that does not make it the other woman’s place to make them aware of it. At the end of the day a lot of these situations involve a wife that thinks all is right with the world, and they do not deserve any of what is happening, let alone having someone bent on revenge turning up on their doorstep with a bombshell like this.

The only real reason anyone goes to the wife is to get a little bit of payback. Not because they think the wife deserves to know.

Take Care
Jennifer May 25th, 2007, 9:41 pm

True I suppose but man…….. why do that to another woman whether she’s aware or not? I’m not bitter. I’ve been cracked in the head so to speak by an obnoxious ow & I never did understand the need for anything deceptive. What’s the point? What has a good result if it’s based on a lie? I just don’t get that. It’d be a cool thing if everyone just told the truth & did the right thing; all the way around, all of the time.
LS May 25th, 2007, 10:01 pm

Chasing:
Thank you so much for your insight and not only that but your encouragement to me! You seem to really have it all together. There are times when I feel like I am losing my f-ing mind in this whole situation and it has helped me SO much to have you guys here to offer another point of view, another opinion, anything! I felt SO alone before I found you ladies! It’s not like I can call up my mom and tell her all about this wonderful guy, OR that I am having a bad day cause my MM boyfriend broke a date with me! LOL…Back to what you were saying though about us OW being stronger than the wives. I AGREE fully. It would take one strong ass woman to be in this relationship and not only that but STAY in it! Like I have said before, this is the hardest relationship I have ever been in and I went through a messy divorce! But it is also the greatest one I have ever been in on so many levels, thatis why it is so hard for me to figure out what to do. What is best for me? Leaving him and then having him get a divorce and then find someone else? Or stay the OW for awhile and wait??
Back to the wife,
My MM’s wife has absolutely no clue, she doesn’t even ask him or find it strange that he has stopped trying to have sex with her for over a year now. That is how nuts she is. She would be perfectly happy not ever having any kind of sex or intimacy ever again. Any NORMAL woman would realize that something was up when that happened. Not her. Either that or like you guys were saying, she might have a suspicsion but just does not want to admit it or think about it. I really don’t know. I think it is very unfair of my MM to stay in his marriage when I hear about the fights they have infront of their child. I think that is wrong and is going to screw up the kid more in the long run, but it is his decision not mine. How long were you and your MM together? Are you still together? What is the situation now?

Again thanks for being here. You are such a blessing.
Voice May 25th, 2007, 10:21 pm

LS,

I don’t have kids, but to fight in front of there kid is so wrong.

As for the sex side of things. My MM’s wife is perfectly happy not to have sex again, maybe thats the difference. it’s her putting the brakes on the intimacy and not my MM losing interest. As for suspicions, I should think it’s a really damaging thing to accuse someone and be wrong. When I thought my ex husband was cheating, I made sure I had the proof before I confronted him. Maybe that’s why they don’t say anything. also if you think about the financial point of view. A seperation/divorce is very finacially draining and life changing if you think about maybe having to sell the family home and all that kind of thing. Maybe it’s an easier option to put up with it, although not always the right one.

As usual the role of being the other woman is a total minefield.

Take Care.
ChasingBtrflyz May 26th, 2007, 3:13 pm

Hi LS,

The truth is…. there are no hard and fast rules when dealing with infidelity. Everyone has a different story. Whether you’re the cheating spouse, the spouse being cheated on, or the OW/M. We all have tales to tell. Statistically speaking, most MM never leave their wives. Statistically speaking, most MM are not very honest in their dealings with the OW. And they are even less honest with their wives This is where Voice is an anomaly (no offense Voice, lol.) Her MM didn’t spin her any empty promises, or illusions. She knows exactly what he’s willing to offer and she has accepted her role in his life as such, for the time being. She is though, the exception and not the rule. We should all be so lucky…. to be told the truth and given the choice to make a more informed decision, before we invest so much of ourselves in a man who really doesn’t “belong” to anyone. And isn’t that the rub? He doesn’t belong to his wife and he doesn’t belong to us. Personally speaking, I tend to believe that the vast majority of MM fall into two categories.
#1: The serial cheater…. this man truly belongs to no one. He cheats because he can. He has no guilt, shame, or remorse. He lies to his spouse, he lies to his OW. His game is simply…. to get in, get off, get out. This is the man with serious intimacy issues. He may be disordered, he may suffer from a sexual addiction, he may have grown up watching “dear old dad” do the same thing and thus, is destined to repeat that behavior. Whatever the case may be, he will unlikely change without therapy. My apologies Jen… I think your man falls into this category. I’d like to think that any woman…. spouse, S/O, or OW would have some gut instinct, that tells her something is terribly amiss. Obviously, we are guided by our hearts and not always our heads. This man capitalizes on that. Which tells me that he also likely has very little respect for women in general. This is the man who hooks up indiscriminately and usually ends up caught because his needs are so intense that he picks some psycho female who then plays games back…. like confronting the wife. This is where children are hurt and relationships destroyed needlessly. And for what? Because a nosy dog or a good southerly breeze sends him out on the prowl? He is such the charmer that the wife immediately places all of the blame on the OW. She refuses to hold him accountable but, she can’t live with the negative thoughts that SHE did something wrong to send him into another woman’s arms. (Not that she did, because this kind of MM has probably done this before or will do it again) So, she helps her man and herself, by using the OW as a scapegoat. Someone has to be at fault, right? Truth be told, there are often times ignored red flags in this man’s marriage. It is not up to us to help the wife by telling her anything. As Voice said, why create such hurt in someone else’s life?
#2: The long term MM. This is a man who is unhappy with the choices that he made. He may have children to whom he is steadfastly responsible. He may have obligations… financial, religious, health related, etc. to his wife. He may fear losing everything that he’s worked so hard for. He wants out of his marriage but, doesn’t know how to do it. He fears losing the respect of his family, his children, and yes even his wife. He doesn’t want to be the one at fault. Still, he cheats because he’s selfish. He won’t give up what he has for what he wants. Instead, he’ll keep some OW waiting, with promises of leaving his current spouse “when the time is right”, “when the kids are grown”, “when the wife decides it’s over”, “when he can figure out how to make a graceful exit that won’t end up costing him.” This is where I believe the wife may well know but, refuses to admit or even accept. When a marriage becomes so bad that one or the other spouse is cheating, there are definitely huge red flags waving about. Sorry but, there are wives who most certainly DO know but, they have invested so much of themselves in the marriage (Or as I like to call it, “the appearance” of the marriage) that they flat out ignore what’s so painfully obvious. (Kind of like us, right?) Sometimes, the wife simply doesn’t care. Maybe she doesn’t like sex so the OW keeps hubby off her back. Maybe she’s financially comfortable and stays for the security. Who really knows.
Marriage is hard…. there has to be good communication, trust, respect, genuine care for the other person. But, times goes by and married couples forget how to talk, they forget why they married in the first place, they no longer see value in their partner. Resentments begin to build and before long the attraction fades. Marriage becomes something that you “have” to do rather than something that you “want” to do. A chore instead of a blessing. Cheating isn’t right. One door should be closed before another is opened. Ahh, in a perfect world….lol.

My case is different in the fact that my MM’s wife was a serial cheater herself. And yes, he knew and didn’t care. He stayed out of obligation to his children and fear of losing what he worked so hard for. The marriage was without common courtesy, mutual respect, care, or love. They did not work together, they did not compromise, they did not communicate. In fact, as some of you may know…. they actually got into “swinging” during the last 2 years of their marriage. Now, if that isn’t the epitome of disrespect for each other, I don’t know what is. (Good gosh, don’t get me started there, lol.) He didn’t cheat with me because of sex. He had plenty already. What he found with me was a mutual and very genuine feeling of warmth. Something he never had with his wife. She was cold and unfeeling, devoid of any empathy or concern for anyone but herself. He wasn’t a husband, he was the slave. She wasn’t a wife, she was the paycheck collector. I gave him all the things he thought marriage was supposed to be. That’s why he cheated with me. And I am the only person he ever cheated with. (Other than the “ugly” women she “allowed” him to screw during the “swinging” part of their marriage. Her words, not mine.) He did leave his wife for me. Unfortunately, when you are married to a disordered person, (His wife is a Narcissist/Borderline Personality) it is difficult to detach. Especially where the children are involved. His daughter suffers from the same personality disorder which adds to the constant strain and chaos between us. For the last 4 years, I have worked tirelessly on his behalf, behind the scenes. I just can’t do it anymore. I’m tired of feeling like I’m still the OW in his life and until he makes the necessary changes, I refuse to wait any longer. I gave up a lot of myself and I won’t take a backseat to his ex or his daughter. The pull of his obligations have put too much distance and ugliness between us and I’m tired of fixing things that I didn’t break.
Oh and the financial toll as Voice talked about…. it is a tremendous one. Again, my situation is different. My MM was over $150,000.00 in the hole and sinking deeper everyday when he met me. His divorce a costly one, as she took all of his 401k plan and the respect of his children with her. He has since rebuilt his relationship with his children and his retirement plan. (with my help) He has absolutely no debt and is living quite a comfortable life now. Me… I lost many friends, jobs, my self respect, and the respect of my family. I am not in debt but, my life is not so comfortable as his. Talk about a role reversal. All the things he was so afraid of have been bestowed upon me, lol. The ex? (The Beast as I call her) is heavily in debt as she is a totally irresponsible person. She steals the daughters SSI checks to pay for her own wants and needs. She cries poverty to anyone who will listen. I am known as the “whore” who broke up her marriage. (even though she has had more men in 1 night than I have had in my lifetime, during her so called… great marriage, lol.) She has had at least 4 different men living with her and the children in less than 2 years. She is supposedly getting married again (poor bastard) and still, she is heavily pursuing her ex hubby (my MM.) Her children play a game every night called “how many ways to kill daddy’s girlfriend.” A game SHE taught them, I might add. So who am I supposed to be feeling sorry for here???? I can’t compete with this kind of insanity. I guess that old saying is true….. “Be careful what you wish for because you may just get it!”

That’s my take on this whole subject….. in a NUTshell, lmao.

Take care ladies.
Hugs,
Chasing
Voice May 26th, 2007, 8:26 pm

Chasing.

No offence taken I try to avoid saying my situation is unique(doesn’t everyone think their’s is), but to a degree I do believe it. I’ve not been fed any BS, no promises. Me and my MM enjoy each other as and when. if you take away the details thats all it is, and arrangement.

However although I don’t think my situation is maybe the same as others, the feelings are all too common. The highs, the lows and everything in between. Things like when we’ve arranged and one of us has to cancel. The times I’m shopping and see a couple and I see what I’m missing. the nights alone etc etc, the list is endless.

But the important things to remember for me and the rules that keep me sane ARE the things I’ve known from the get go.

It’s not for keeps
He was never free to be mine to begin with.
I already know the answer to ‘ Leave her for me?’
Enjoy it while it lasts.

Thats it

Take Care
Jennifer May 26th, 2007, 8:37 pm

I’m sad about reading some of this & learning how it really is in most cases… It makes me sad for those whom deserve to not spend nights alone etc. I’m always left with the same question in mind… “Why?”
None of my business really… I guess my wish for everyone is to be able to live fully & have what they truly deserve.
Have a nice weekend.

J

ps~ I’ve learned alot thanks to talking with some of you in here. Thanks.
ChasingBtrflyz May 26th, 2007, 9:53 pm

Hi Voice,

I don’t mean to imply that you are exempt from the feelings that go along with this rollercoaster. I’m sure that you’ve invested a good bit of yourself. There is no way not to. I remember the nights spent alone, the happy couples walking hand in hand…. always the reminders of what I didn’t have. Your MM may have been totally honest with you but, I don’t doubt for one minute that you suffer the same as the rest of these ladies. Acceptance comes at a price, and this I know. I may have won the battle myself… but, I didn’t win the war. I feel for you. Our situations may be different but, they are still the same. I’ll have an extra glass of wine just for you, lol.

Jen,

It is sad. No doubt about it. Why? Because we don’t choose who steals our heart. Plain and simple really. We are all just getting through this whatever way we can. Do we deserve more, deserve better? Hell yes we do. Not always in the cards though. So, we hang in there and we vent on pages like this one and in the end we find a voice and maybe a place to begin the healing. It really is that simple AND that complicated. lol.

Take care ladies. You are all in my thoughts.

Hugs,
Chasing
Jennifer May 26th, 2007, 10:07 pm

I supp @ times I feel like a wife and an ow. Wierd… He’s here every night, we do alot together & for 4 months every minute of his time’s accounted for. It isn’t just that… He acts like he’s wanting to be home & doing the things we do. I used to doubt it…
Maybe I’m just damaged/wounded or whatever from some of that stuff (past). I’d love to speak with someone who’s been through it all to get feedback… He seems to get frustrated when I have doubt because he says he’s giving ll he’s got.
The text stuff threw me for a huge ‘loop.’
Right now, I’m just taking care of me. I’ve become uber-sensitive to alot of things; I don’t really like that. So, keeping the focus where it belongs.
I hope this made sense.

J
ChasingBtrflyz May 26th, 2007, 10:59 pm

Hi Jen,

My MM’s time was always accounted for too. I made sure I did my best to protect him, even at the cost of leaving myself out there. You’re here because in your heart, you know that something isn’t quite right. You don’t have any concrete proof but, it doesn’t stop that niggling doubt, does it? You never did tell us about the past infidelity. Maybe you should. We can only go on what you provide presently. It’s funny really, one of my college thesis’ was about infidelity. I remember thinking…. not me. I would never fall for the BS. Guess what? I did. LIke I said, you are here for a reason. Maybe now is the time to unburden yourself. You want answers and I am more than willing to give you that. Trust me, your man would not be accepting TM’s if he wasn’t a part of it. He can tell you whatever he wants. Word salad is what it’s called. So….. tell us more….
I’ll be brutally honest with you. If that’s what you want.
What I won’t do… is justify MY position as the OW. I have enough to deal with. I won’t waste any of my time with BS. I have done that long enough. Spill it….

Take care,
Chasing
Voice May 26th, 2007, 11:10 pm

Chasing,

It’s ok I know you didn’t, I wasn’t biting back or anything

I have to be honest and say for the most part being an OW suits me perfectly. I’ll readily confess to being a commitment phobe, mainly cos I’ve been in what I thought was a successful marriage, when it wasn’t always the case, and right now my arrangement suits me just as much as it suits my MM. I also have to say that the highs seriously outweigh the lows. It really doesn’t bother me all that much. It’s just that thing, here and there that may make me think, what if?? might be something totally cr*p like seeing a couple pick out wallpaper……lol

Right now I’m just having a good time, but keeping my options open into the bargain.

Take Care
Voice May 26th, 2007, 11:24 pm

Jen,

I’ve been both the wife & the other woman. I too will give you as much honesty as I can. Much like Chasing said, we don”t plan these situations, I believe things happen for a reason even if we are not readily aware of what it is.

If you think it would help, talk to us all on here, I just worry that maybe cos we are essentially opposite sides of the coin, it may sometimes be difficult to relate.

Take Care
Jennifer May 27th, 2007, 12:54 am

ok.. I will. It’s taking alot for me to open up I guess because I’m sort of afraid of the answers that might be something I’m tired of wondering/asking/ being ok then not ok with, etc. The idea of there being someone else makes me feel as though I’m failing here even though I do know that isn’t correct. I have to eat quick & do a few things then I’ll get back on.
Thanks..
LS May 29th, 2007, 4:22 pm

I agree with Chasing. I will never try and explain myself or justify being the OW to anyone (well once they find out that is). I am in love with someone who also loves me very much and this person happens to be a MM. You can not CHOSE who you fall in love with, trust me, if you could I would NOT have picked him! What gets me is that we are all such intelligent, strong, beautiful women and we are ALL in this same situation. I agree though in that I feel my situation is different as well. All of ours are different. With the same problems and issues at the core. Right? We are all in a completely different situation but all have the same sorrows and pain. What I want to know is how so many of us ended up here? I never thought in a million years that I would EVER be involved with a MM. It is not something any woman sits and dreams about. Like I have said before this relationship is the hardest relationship I have ever been in and I have been through a messy divorce. That was nothing compared to the ups and downs of being involved with a MM.
LS May 29th, 2007, 4:26 pm

Oooopppss, I hit the submit button before I was done! Anyways what I want to know is how will I know when to leave? How long is too long to wait? Am I wasting too much of my time already? It does seem like a lose, lose situation in so many ways. Either I wait and waste years of my life (hopefully it won’t be years but who knows right?) OR do I risk walking away from him NOW and then have to live with that for the rest of my life? Wondering if I did not give it a fair enough chance? So many women say MM NEVER leave their wives, but how do they know that? Maybe it can work for some. I don’t know I am so confused once again about my feelings and what I should do. I just want to be happy and not worry every morning when I wake up and every night that I fall asleep alone……..
ChasingBtrflyz May 29th, 2007, 5:08 pm

Hi LS,

I think it’s a kind of irony really. I don’t like to justify myself as the OW mostly because the wife never has to justify herself for putting up with a cheat and because the MM never has to justify his actions either. I will not be pigeon holed, lol. Make sense?
To be honest, I’m not sure when you should leave. My mother used to tell me that you’ll know when you’ve had enough. But, will this happen before I lose my mind????? lol. Personally, I don’t put a time limit on when the MM will leave. I think it’s important to look at the specific situation. Has he cheated before? Am I just one in a long line of OW? If so, I believe this man will never leave his wife. I am just a convenience and when I become inconvenient, he will cast me aside. I guess if you really want to find out, you can become inconvenient, right? Don’t be there for every call. Don’t jump at EVERY chance to meet with him. Have plans to do other things when he calls last minute (even if you don’t, say you do, lol.) When he makes a date in advance, tell him that you’re just not up to it/have plans with friends. In other words…. STOP BEING HIS BECKON CALL GIRL. See what I’m driving at? What I have learned is this… “never make someone a priority when all you are to them, is an option.” I can’t remember where I heard that but, it really made me stand back and take notice when I did. Suddenly, things started to make sense. I was merely an option. As so many of us are. My MM did leave and it wasn’t withing the 6 month timeframe I keep hearing about. So, it can and does happen. There is always baggage when they do. I’m learning that the hard way myself. I thought once he left, things would be great. And at times it has been wonderful. Other times, like when his psycho ex refuses to back the hell off and he doesn’t have the backbone to tell her to, I get very frustrated and confused on what my role in his life really is. I worry that it will never get better. I worry that I wasted so much time. I worry that his daughter will make me remain TOW too. If he can’t stand up to exbitchy, how could he stand up to daughter???? It’s complicated.
I am a very understanding, compassionate woman. It’s not as if I’m asking too much. I even go for the most objective opinions I can find, to try and keep myself in check. I’m always willing to talk things out and compromise. But as I heard it said once, “compromise to a point, becomes surrender.” I do not plan on surrendering anymore of myself. Maybe that’s the point that we all have to get to. When we know for sure what we will and will not accept anymore. Only you can say for sure. Not sure if I’ve helped you at all. Just my rambling thoughts again, lol.

Hugs,
Chasing
LS May 29th, 2007, 6:05 pm

Chasing:
I agree 100% with you. I have never let myself be at his Beck and Cal, ever. That is one thing I won’t do. Why would I make myslef so available when he is not to me? I can’t call him just to say hello or that I miss him, so why would I put my life on hold waiting for him? Hell no. All that being said, it is still so hard for me on weekend cause I never see him or hear a peep from him. The thought of him playing the “happy family” role just makes me want to throw up TBH with you and then the week comes and he is with me living this other life and it just makes me sick. How can he do it? How long can he live that lie and live without me, the person he says he loves so much? And get this Friday he told me he can not live his life without me and never wants me to stop loving him. That is all nice and sweet but it is like “dude, you are already living your life without me, can’t you see that?!”
Know what I mean? It is just so frustrating for me. The lying, the pretending like I am not with him, all of that shit. I think you are right though that I will come to a point where I will know that I have had enough. I just don’t want to get to that point. I want him to smarten up before that happens and it is too late. I don’t want to ever look at him any way than the way I do now.
I am like you, I am VERY compassionate and understanding. I have never thrown any fits with him or freaked out on him for constantly having to leave me or “get home” and I do sacrifice so much and compromise so much and for what? For someone that no one even knows exists in my life? It just does not seem fair. He always tells me that HE sacrifices so much but I just do not feel it is the same thing or that he really does when it comes down to it.
I don’t want him to take me for granted any more than he already does. He says he doesn’t but they do I think without even realizing it, you know what I mean? It is just the cold hard nature of this fucked up situation.
ChasingBtrflyz May 29th, 2007, 6:53 pm

Ls,

I don’t believe they, (MM) have any idea the torment that we (OW) go through. I think they may be a little self absorbed to that extent. They seem to feel the pressure of living the “double life.” They just don’t seem to be empathetic enough to see how badly it wears on us. It’s almost as if we are expected to be available when it is convenient for them. What about us? My MM used to make me promise not to date other people. At first I complied with his request because he was so adamant that it hurt him to think of me with someone else. Really????? Then how the hell do you think I feel? Funny, HE never thought along those lines. So, how much does selfishness play into this? Must be more than we realize. Maybe we give up more of ourselves than we should. Maybe we should be more demanding when it comes to our own feelings. Maybe if we did that, the MM would go running home to wifey and forget we even exist. Maybe that’s exactly why we don’t. It’s so hard to say. Truthfully, we buy into all of it…. it’s not like he’s holding a gun to our heads, right? That doesn’t mean we deserve less common courtesy or respect than he gives/shows his wife. I guess it’s all in what WE decide to allow. He can only do what we allow him to do. Only has as much control over us as we give him. Let me ask you a question…..if you had told him to leave his wife first, before you agreed to get involved with him, do you think he’d still be hanging around? Or do you think he would have moved onto someone willing to bed him down right away? This is where we really need to be more honest with ourselves. Also, we should be making them a hell of a lot more accountable than we do. We didn’t hold a gun to their head’s either, did we? These are just some of the things that really resonate in my brain at times. It’s true, we can’t help who we love but, we need to be more realistic about who we give our hearts to. I can tell you this. No matter how things turn out between my MM and me, I can guarantee that I will NEVER get involved with another MM. I have learned my lesson in that regard. I could never let myself be put into this position again. I can guarantee that I would never put anybody else through the hell I’ve gone through either. I would never become a cheater.

I guess time will tell….

Hugs,
Chasing
LS May 29th, 2007, 7:28 pm

Chasing:
EXACTLY, they have no clue of the shit that we go through as the OW. They could and will never understand I have come to realize.
So your MM TOLD you not to date other people? My MM has not, but I told him I did not want to because I do love him and if I did not think our relationship was going anywhere why would I? But now I am wondering why the hell do I not date? All my friends are constantly trying to hook me up with guys who I know would be great guys and I always say no. Am I being a complete fool? So you dated other guys or no? How long have you and your MM been together? He is now divorced right?
That is so great how you said it is all in what WE allow. So true! I guess I allow him to make me feel this way and I allow the bullshit at times and I shouldn’t and I SHOULD hold him accoutable. I do, I mean don’t get me wrong, I tell him exactly how he makes me feel and I never sugar coat it and sometimes he does not like to hear it but too damn bad. I am not going to lie just to make HIM feel better about the way he makes me fucking feel.
I feel like I already sacrifice enough of myself and my feelings the least I can do is just be 100% honest.
Back to what you asked me, whether or not he would have left his wife if I asked him to before bedding him. TBH I don’t know, I know that our relationship is not all about sex, trust me I KNOW. But I am not sure he would have done that considering he barely knew me. Maybe if we took it slow and got to know each other over time and I told him I wanted to wait to make sure it was right and that he would leave her for sure. But that is a good question! I am going to have to ponder that one for awhile…….

I also agree that should this not work out, I would NEVER EVER get involved with another MM and would never recommend it to any of my GF’s. Why put yourself through this shit? Like you said, no one is holding a gun to our heads, but at the same time, it is just too hard to walk away or know what the right thing to do is?? I am so torn at times. Like today, I am so frustrated and fed up I don’t know how much longer I can go on and then there are other days where I am so happy and can not imagine my life without him!
ARG……
ChasingBtrflyz May 29th, 2007, 10:43 pm

LS,

I can tell that you’re having a difficult day. I have been there so many times myself, lol. There were a few times that I ended things with my MM in the beginning. It would get to lonely for me and I would sit there and think, he’s home with her right now, cutting their grass, eating their dinner, playing cards with their friends, climbing into bed with her. It took a lot to live with those thoughts. I would tell him how I felt and he would say how much he wanted to be doing all of those things with me. Maybe that was the hook. What kept me going for so long. At this point I don’t even remember, lol. We have been together for a little over 4 years. He is now divorced, as of December 2006. It has been very hard though. exbitchy drug it out for over 2 years. Even called him to ask him if he was sure the night before she finally signed the papers. She is still in hot pursuit of him even now. She comes onto him, uses the kids as a means to control his actions and activities. Hell, she still calls HIS mother to chat. (No doubt they are talking about me) I don’t think she will ever leave him alone and that’s why I’m so over this whole thing. You know, they have been apart for over 2.5 years and his father recently died… that fuc*ed up POS actually showed up at his mothers house and at the funeral home. I’m lucky I did not go to jail, lol.
I didn’t date other people while I was with MM. I did try to date a very nice guy during a split with MM (this was when he slept with exbitchy behind my back) but, I was already so emotionally wrung out that I didn’t pursue it. Sometimes, I wish I had. How different would my life be? Hmm…
What happens from here out for me is anyone’s guess. I have not spoken to MM since before I left for vacation. I’m sure he is fuming and I don’t care. I spent 4 years waiting, he can wait a couple of weeks. And if he doesn’t, I don’t need him anyway.
I guess all we can really do is try to keep things in the proper perspective. I don’t condone game playing but, did you ever stop to consider that going out dancing with a new guy might just get your point across to your MM? That you’re not going to wait forever? And you really shouldn’t. Why give him what he won’t give you? Who knows, you might find a different, better man of your dreams…..just a thought, lol.

Take care,
Chasing
LS May 29th, 2007, 11:45 pm

I am having a bad day but I feel like it is not early on at all. I mean fuck we have been together for a year! You would think I could get used to all of this by now, but then I always tell him, how could any woman get used to being the OW. The answer is you can’t. So back to you and your MM, even after the divorce and everything it still did not work out for you guys because of her? That really sucks. That is another thing I am afraid of. Not her controlling him, because he is not the type of man that if he was divorced would let a woman do that shit, I am just worried about HER making my life a living hell and being a complete bitch to me. I mean if I were in her shoes I would be a bitch to me too! LOL….When will you be back home? Are you going to contact your MM when you get back? Have you tried living together since he has been divorced? I mean did he ever give you guys a real shot at a relationship, a FAIR shot at making it work or was the bitch ex wife always making it impossible? Sorry for all the questions, Iam just interested in getting another OW’s perspective who is with a MM that actually ended up getting the big D. My MM told me today at lunch that it is inevitable and he is just trying to figure out how to do it without her taking him to the cleaners, but he said “I HAVE to get out of it soon, I can not stay any longer, I just don’t know how”
What does that comment mean to you?
Voice May 30th, 2007, 12:16 am

LS,

The cynic in me thinks it’s just the same old cr*p line of I’m leaving honest, but just not yet. But at the end of the day some of them DO leave, don’t they?

In a way I’m glad it’s not something I have to deal with. Although I have to be honest and say my MM has said a couple of things this week to me that have really made me stop and think about things.

1. Considering my MM has always said he won’t share me. he said to me yesterday, that he thinks maybe I should find someone else.

2. We had an opportunity to be together all day last sunday, but when I first found out, I couldn’t make it cos of another commitment MM was really disappointed. However then said commitment bailed on me, so I said we could meet, and he was less than enthusiastic and said it didn’t really matter if i could make it. We did get together and all seemed ok, but over the last couple of days it’s niggled a bit.

Now I know they’re not big issues. It’s just to me it seems really strange that he would make two comments like that, because it almost never happens. I’m not worried as such, but it has got me wondering if the bubble is about to burst and he’s trying to let me down gently. Although if that is the case, that also seems odd as he has always been so straight with me previously.

Watch this space I guess.

Take Care
LS May 30th, 2007, 12:28 am

Voice:
I hear you and understand because these situations are so unlike anything else. BUT I am such an optimist I have to believe that he will leave. It is just so hard sometimes when the reality of the situaiton is always so loud and in my face. The weekends alone, the holidays, my birthday, etc…….. Not being able to take him with me to friends BBQ’s and parties, I have 2 big upcoming weddings and will go alone. How much does that suck? Even though my MM told me I could take a date, why would I? I want to take him, rather, I want HIM to take ME! Dammit. TBH with you, from the comments you made above it sounds to me like maybe you DO want a little more from your MM. Am I wrong? If you were truly ok with the situation, you would not be wondering or pondering these things. That is just my observation and nothing more. I don’t blame you though, it is in our nature. Being a woman and being intimate with any man , over time, we will all fall for them in some way and it will be hard on us no matter how strong you/we are you know? Where do you see yourself in a few months or even years? I think in some ways your relationship with your MM is even worse than mine. Also maybe he is acting this way (since you said he was always so open before with you) because HE is starting to have more feelings for you??? Why wouldn’t he??
Voice May 30th, 2007, 1:17 am

LS,

I am ok with it, it really is just a couple of comments that really don’t fit into the scheme of what we have. Thats all I’m really pondering about. If he was available then yes I could see us together, but I’m not actively seeking anything more from him. If anything I’ve been finding myself going out more and more. As for his feelings for me, he said right at the beginning of this year that he had fallen for me, but he has never said ‘I love you’ and I’ve asked him not to unless he really means it. I really do feel that if he says it then it really will open up a whole can of worms.

Actually up until these comments came about, I was crystal clear about what I was doing in all this. I feel that HE has muddied the waters, not me but him.

What a difference a few days make…….lol

Take care
Karina May 30th, 2007, 4:39 am

Voice, keep going out. I can understand your feelings for this guy, been there and for a long time I was thinking I could love him part time forever, but then one day, out of the blue, I met someone else and my instinct told me in a fraction of a second that he was the one I could have a life with and that if I was not going to give the new man a chance I will be waiting for my MM half an hour here and there for a long time. I told my MM that I met someone else and that I would not see him anymore and he cried, asked questions, ask me why I could not see both of them?! I told him that if I could not do it honestly, it was not going to work and it was not what I wanted anymore. Love your MM, but know it’s not forever and allow yourself to recognize a possible new passion if and when it will come your way.

Just back from vacation :))) Amsterdam, Cologne, Dublin…Huggs to you Voice.
ChasingBtrflyz May 30th, 2007, 2:52 pm

Hello ladies,

Wow, so much to say about all of your situations. Where to begin? lol.

LS,
You never get used to it. Waiting in absolute limbo is something that I don’t believe you ever become accustomed to. Time does make it level out a bit but, I think that’s more acceptance on our parts than anything else. You know, like when you lose someone you love… you go through a process… denial, anger, grief, and finally acceptance. This is really not so different. The person we are usually grieving for, is ourselves. And how can we not? This does change us in so many ways, doesn’t it?
You can bank on the fact that IF you become known as the female who broke up his marriage, wifey will make his life and yours a living hell. You took something that belonged to her (this is what she will be thinking) and she’s not letting go that easily. If she really becomes unhinged, she WILL use the child as a way to control his actions. Trust me on this one. And as much as he may be happy, that he’s finally out of there, there will always be the pull of that child. If he’s a good man as you say, this is inevitable. She will capitalize on his emotions for the child, she will attempt to lure him back in with god only knows what excuse. This is what I’ve been living with for over 2 years now. Hell hath no fury and all that, lol. I’ve already talked about the financial toll it takes. Though, my MM is in better shape now than he’s been in for the last 20+ years, lol. Still, initially it can be quite devastating. My MM ended up renting an apartment with 5 other guys because he could barely survive on what was left after the child support and lawyers fees. The exbitchy did get ALL of his 401k savings. If you asked him now, he would tell you that the fear of losing everything, is what kept him in that marriage for so long. He’d also tell you that in the end, it was well worth the cost to get away from her. She really is quite a twisted individual. He has no regrets except for the drama and heartache exbitchy caused the children. (and having seen what she’s capable of, left no doubt in my mind what his life with her must have been like.)

I never lived with my MM. Not during the separation and not since the divorce. This is a decision that I made for myself. After he cheated on me with her, he made me a promise that he would have no further contact with her, unless it was an emergency regarding the children. He has broken that promise over and over again. And while she is the master manipulator and the one who instigates contact with her many lies and BS. Until he can break away from her totally, I will not change my mind. To his credit, he has asked me to move in with him numerous times and he has already asked me to marry him a few times. (What most of us are waiting for, huh? lol.) TBH, I will never feel comfortable doing so, if he can’t give me this one thing. I haven’t asked for much except this. It just happens to be the one thing he is unable/unwilling to give me. Why should I give up my life and my home if he can’t give up her? I don’t think I’m asking the impossible here. It’s a matter of feeling like I’m living in her shadow. I can never truly relax knowing that she’s always on the prowl. Does that make sense? So, yes the exbitchy still makes a life together impossible. Mind you, she lives HER life to the fullest. Is supposedly getting married. Though again, this is just one of her many tricks trying to make him jealous or something. Not that he is. It simply signals to me that she is still not willing to give up. Seriously, the drama has been mind numbing thus far. I can’t live like this anymore. I have a limit and I think I’ve reached it, lol.

I’ll be going home in a few days. I’m not sure whether I’ll call him or not. I have enjoyed this break from the chaos and am not sure I even want to continue. Maybe I’ve grown as a person and am realizing that life should never be this hard. It does make me sad to think of all the wasted time. Of opportunities that I have squandered, trying to make myself available to him. But, it’s all a learning process.

What does your MM’s statement mean? I’m not sure really. Has he made the statement many times before? I always tell myself that a person’s actions always speak louder than their words. Again, you’ll know when you’ve had enough. In the meantime, just try to roll with the punches. Oh yeah, I remember yelling this to my MM once….. “will someone stop this frigging roller coaster cos I want to get off!” lmao.

Hugs,
Chasing
Eurygnomes May 30th, 2007, 3:01 pm

Good Lord. Having read all this, I feel ill.

See, a few weeks ago (May 8th), I met a bloke in a bar. I saw the ring. I figured nothing would happen. It did. We got close. V. close.

He’s hilarious, good with words, builds things, hot - blah blah blah - you’ve heard it and felt it all before, there’s no need to do it again. You know what it’s like to meet the person who makes you feel more ‘you’ than you normally do.

He went home after a blissful four days. We arranged that I would visit end of June. Then TW (is that the right terminology) found my website and well, kinda kicked him out. Then disappeared for 9 days. With their 4.5yr old. Not telling MM where they went - just that they’d be back ‘tuesday’.

He returned to me. We had another amazing 5 days. Talked quite a lot. He said things like, “it’s premature, but my mother’s going to love you.” and, when ‘quoting’ a newspaper headline (you know, as you do) “woman knocks boyfriend from window: relationship over before really started” and so forth. Shits and giggles all round.

Aaaannnyyyywaayyy: Today, he’s apparently having the talk with her. But this morning, when he spoke to me, he said that he “has a plan.” The plan, it seems, consists of ’sticking to his guns’ while insisting that they have a ’sabbatical’.

Now, this is someone who knows words. The word sabbatical is NOT the word separation. It means a ‘break’, not a ’split’. I feel iiiiiilllll, more than a little foolish, and don’t really know what to do. My mother (the apple didn’t fall far from the tree) insists that he seems as besotted with me as I am with him (which, to all intents and purposes, he does), but…you know as well as I do (it would appear) the disquieting sensation that washes over you when you read “sabbatical” instead of “separation”.

I’m not really sure why I’m writing this. I’m quietly hoping that no one reads it. That this just goes out into the ether. I’m also quietly hoping someone says, “hey, eury, don’t worry about it - you’ve known him 3 weeks and you’ve got some traction, babe.” But that’s without knowing that he’s currently nursing a hangover in the marital bed (one assumes it’s not the child’s) having received a cold reception from TW (well, he’d get one from me too) and being “too sore to consider talking without vomiting”.

All I want, all I desperately want, is for him to realise that he has this amazing, one time offer (no Ginsu knives are gonna come with it, mind) for eternal happiness. And take the damned thing. (er, that’d be ME, btw, in case there’s any confusion). But the big question is: will he? or won’t he?

I’ve given myself till Christmas to put up with this sort of crap. If it’s not sorted by then, it never will be. And I’ll be sufficient of a wreck to require all the Kings Horses and all the Kings Men by then.

I don’t know how you’ve (some of you’ve) managed to put up with this for so long. Such long times, 8yrs, 5yrs… I’m having issues putting up with it for 5wks!!!

Thanks for being there. Thanks for your stories. Not so many thanks for the statistics (they’re horrible).
ChasingBtrflyz May 30th, 2007, 3:23 pm

Voice,

Isn’t it funny how they won’t share us but, always expect us to share them? Double standard to the maximum. You know, that’s what’s really got me thinking these days…. all these double standards we endure.

Now, he says he thinks you should find someone else? Well, this can mean many things. Is he testing your loyalty to him? Some men do that. Especially in these longer term affairs. Is he getting too close and trying to put the brakes on? It is a possibility. Or is this double life wearing on him and he’s trying to find an out? Hard to predict.
You had plans but, they fell through and he was less than overjoyed at the prospect of spending the day with you after all? Sounds like a wee bit of a temper tantrum to me. MM are good for that sometimes, as they frequently see how much they are putting in and seldom realize what WE put in. Maybe he’s trying to make it look like no big deal for a specific reason. What that may be, I wouldn’t even venture to guess.
It does seem odd that he’s always been up front with you and now that has somehow changed. Maybe the wife has been putting the pieces together and asking questions. That usually sends the MM running for the hills. And we are the ones they run from, because they can, lol. You say that you find yourself going out more and more….. maybe this bothers him to a degree. He senses your changing and is afraid that you’re going to walk away or find someone else. As much as he may know it is possible, I’m sure he secretly hopes that it won’t happen. He did admit that he had fallen for you. And as I have come to learn , saying “I love you” is quite different that actually feeling it. Anyone can say it, it takes a vulnerable person to really feel it.
I think the tide is turning, and I do think you’re right about him muddying the waters. He offered you A… you accepted it. Now the storyline is changing and it’s all up for interpretation. I wish I had a crystal ball and was able to tell you what to expect. This life of “never really knowing where you stand” is so hard to deal with at times. I think you have a good grip on your thoughts so all I can do is say, we are here whenever you feel like pondering out loud. My best wishes for all good things for you….

Hugs,
Chasing

ps… I think Karina offered some awesome advice. Always leave yourself open for the most wonderful of surprises.
ChasingBtrflyz May 30th, 2007, 3:30 pm

Karina,

Hats off to you girl! You are the possibility that all is never truly lost. Hope you enjoyed your vacation, lol.

Take care,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz May 30th, 2007, 4:07 pm

Hi Eury,

Sorry if we’ve given you a scare, lol. Soooo, you met wonderful MM and wifey found your web site? How did she do that? Was she actively looking for it? Did he know about it and tell her? Was she spying on him? I know, sorry for the 20 questions thing here, lol. I’m just curious how all of this came about in the span of a few days or weeks. That sends up huge red flags to me. Of course I can be quite the alarmist at times, lol. I’m also very straight forward so, I’ll not mince words here. This has been very fast paced for you and I have to wonder if MM has done this before. Don’t expect him to tell you that he has. They normally don’t. Because of the short span of time, I think what you’re both feeling is lust not head over heels love…. let’s be honest, that takes time to develop. What do you really know about him? Not what he’s told you…. what you REALLY know? His wife leaves with his child and he’s already saying things like, “it’s premature but, my mothers going to love you?” My mother would be kicking my as* trying to get me to understand exactly what I’m leaving behind. As most mothers would do, I assume, lol.
Next, he plans on “sticking to his guns while insisting on a sabbatical”? What is sticking to his guns? If he’s sticking to his guns, is there a need for a sabbatical? His wife walked out on him so again, what guns? Either he’s in or he’s out.
You desperately want him to realize that “he has this one time amazing offer for eternal happiness and hoping that he’ll take the damned thing” and you want to know if he will or he won’t? Well, I don’t have a crystal ball so I can’t say for sure. What I will say is this…..it’s been 5 weeks. Are you even sure that you are armed with enough information to want him to realize this yet? So far, you have seen him at his best. You haven’t seen the warts and baggage. You never see that in the beginning. What if you are just one in a long line of OW for him? What if he is a player? What if he see’s you as a target? Someone he can fool? Maybe his presence is wearing thin with his wife and it’s time for him to move on? Is this sabbatical so he can determine if you are worthy? Better that the wife? Are you just a temporary break from the confines of a difficult marriage with a child involved? I’m not purposely trying to be negative here. I just want to be sure that you are aware. Being the OW is not for the faint hearted. You can tell yourself that you’re only giving him until Christmas but, by then you’re in so deep that getting out/letting go isn’t always that easy. Course by then, you may find that “Prince Charming” is anything but….nobody here can tell you one way or the other. We can share our stories and offer moral support but, it will be a brutally honest kind of support though, lol. Let’s face it… some of us get enough BS from the MM. This is where we come to vent and ask objective opinions. Keep posting and fill us in on the details. Sorry for being so morbidly blunt….

Take care,
Chasing
LS May 30th, 2007, 6:15 pm

Chasing:
Yes my MM has made that comment alot to me actually especially more and more as time goes on and the situation at home gets worse. He told me last night “divorce is inevitable and I KNOW it will happen, I just have to figure out what to do with my assets, my house, if I should buy her another one or let her stay in our house?”
So to me it sounds like he is really trying to figure things out and he talks about it all the time. And mind you it is not something I EVER bring up or talk about. I figure he knows how I feel and I am not going to be the one to pressure him to do it or make a decision, as much as I want to sometimes, I just don’t want to play that role. Atleast not yet anyway, LOL.
You are so right though that it is not something anyone can ever get used to but I think I am at that point, where I accept my role as the OW for now. I won’t accept it forever, hell no. But right now I am ok with it. Granted I have my good and bad days, yesterday being a VERY bad day, but for the most part I feel that I deal with it very well and am a generally happy person. My MM even told me that last night too, how amazed he was at how I handle everything and I don’t freak out on him ever and how he appreciates my patience with him so much. Now if he was not genuine and only in it for a piece of ass, honestly, would he be saying the stuff he does to me?? Like I said before, I don’t ask about this shit or bring it up. HE is the one saying all these things to me and always has been.
Can I ask you, do you really think you will be able to come back and just be able to move on so easily? I am so proud of you for how strong you have been since you have been out of town! BUT…. once you are back to your life, what do you think will happen? Have you thought about dating other people more? Do you honestly love this man or are you at the point where you are SOOO over it?
Sometimes I seriously have those days where I am just so fed up I wonder how the hell have I done it for a year now and how the hell could I do it any longer but then he does or says something to me and I wonder how could I ever live without him? I mean I KNOW I could meet someone great in a second but the connection and feelings I have for my MM, are unlike anything and I know you can’t just have that with every Tom, Dick and Harry you meet.
It is just so hard cause it is like someone said, how can they ever be ours when they were never ours to begin with?? Do you think it will work out for him and I??
ChasingBtrflyz May 30th, 2007, 7:10 pm

LS,
If he’s talking about it more and more and you are not the one bringing it up, then I have to be the “glass is half full sort of person”, lol. With my MM, the more time he spent with me and away from her, the more he talked about it too. I didn’t pressure him at all. I wouldn’t even answer his questions about whether he should leave her or not. I know in my heart that he only waffled because of the kids. (Well, maybe the financial aspect too, and I don’t blame him there.) He often wondered whether he should just buy her out of the house but, they were in so much debt, it wasn’t even an option at the time. And TBH, I didn’t want to live there anyway. I would have had to gut the house just to get rid of the pig smell, lmao. I wanted to start a life far away from her evil influence, if that makes sense. Why try to begin anew in the same old place?

I understand the day to day roller coaster. Extreme highs and lows, really. Many days I wanted to give up. A place like this to vent would have been a Godsend to me. I also understand not wanting to force him to choose. Although sometimes, that’s what it takes to wake them the hell up, lol. Still, you want him to be with you because that’s what he truly wants.

I don’t know what I’ll do when I get back to reality, lol. I’d like to think that I’m strong enough to stand up and be counted in a more serious way, lol. To answer your question, I am sooooo over it, really I am. But, I do love him and I have from the beginning. Why on earth would I have put up with so much torture, lol? I think I want to continue this break of sorts though. At least for a little while. Since I have not spoken to him, I feel less stressed. I feel less pulled into the drama that is his life. I feel more like me, than I have in a long time. It is a scary place to be right now and a confusing one. I loved the fact that I could always be me when I was with him. As time went by and things got so horribly off track, I started to become someone I didn’t like very much. I broke that cardinal rule, I lost myself. I’d like to believe that he feels badly about the pressure’s he’s put on me but, I’m not sure if he really understands that. I worry that he somehow thinks that I’m “superwoman” able to leap tall buildings and all that, lol. I’m only human and I deserve more than he’s been giving lately. I guess, I’m tired of being the one to always compromise. This time, it’s on him. I plan on sitting down and writing him a lengthy e-mail about how I really feel. I guess, in the end it will really be up to him. I know that I won’t compromise anymore. The ball’s in his court now. He was worth waiting for, let’s see if I am….

I think, you’ve put in enough time with your MM to know what his true intentions are by now. Give yourself a deadline and set strong boundaries with him. If he loves you, he will be there in the end…. with signed divorce papers and a dozen roses, lol. All the answers you really need, are in your heart. Just don’t wait too long. Don’t lose YOU in the process. That’s when resentments and walls are built. Hey, I have a sledge hammer you can borrow, lol.

Hugs,
Chasing
LS May 30th, 2007, 9:15 pm

Chasing:
LMAO cause my MM was telling me too how he wondered if he should buy her another house and he would stay in theirs and all I could think about was, how the hell could I live there with him after she had been there for so many years? I guess I could just redecorate and christen every room of the house since he said they never did! LOL. Make NEW and better memories, but still I don’t think I could do it. But I did not tell him what he should do, he is a grown ass man, you would think he would be able to figure it out for himself. But one thing I did notice, he has always been the same about his wife, even before we got together. He always said the same stuff about her, that is how I know that it is not all just a game to him and what makes my situation maybe different than some OW. But still a difficult one nonetheless…..*SIGH*
Anyway I fully agree with you on not losing yourself in this whole process. That is one thing I did with my ex-husband and something I will never do again. That is why I am adamant about not letting my life and schedule revolve around him. If he truly wants to be a part of my life then he can, the choice is his and always has been. Meanwhile I will go on, having fun, going out and seeing him whenever I can. But I will never sacrifice WHO I am in the process. That is one thing my mom taught me long ago, never let yourself be fully dependent on any man! It is ok to want to be with someone, but when you NEED to be with them is when you make the mistake of being too dependent.
Sounds like you have a good plan for when you get back, send him an email telling him how you feel and then leaving the ball in his court, by doing that you will know just how important you really and truly are to him and if he loves you. Like you said, if YOU are worth waiting for to him.
So you think I should set a deadline? I always told my MM that I would never give him an ultimatum and I don’t think they are a good way to start out any relationship, BUT with that being said, I also don’t want him to waffle along and think I will wait for 10 fucking years!!!!
Rachel May 30th, 2007, 11:17 pm

what’s the forum address?
Karina May 30th, 2007, 11:31 pm

Chasing, I do believe my 5 + years relationship with MM was for a reason, it was a life lesson.
I loved him, but as the years were going by, I no longer felt satisfied with the part time deal. That time will come for most of you and when it does, there is no looking back. I cannot say I do not miss him at times (not often), but for some reason, when I look back, the first memories of MM that come to mind are of sex: hot, steamy, intense sex and very little else.

Take care,
Voice May 31st, 2007, 12:02 am

Rachel.

Go to the top of this page and click on the lips on the right.

Take Care.
Voice May 31st, 2007, 12:08 am

Chasing,

Thanks for your comments, most of what you put has been through my mind too…

I’m not seeing him again until Monday night, so I’ve got a few days to think about my options. I will speak to him about it, because I’m just not used to uncertainty and to be honest, I really don’t like it…….lol The one great thing about me and MM is/was that the lines were so clear and seemed to be set in stone and it’s making me uneasy that he is smudging them.

Take Care
Eurygnomes May 31st, 2007, 8:33 am

Hey gals,

Chasing, you are right on, chick! So many good questions. Maybe it is just lust, but to find someone who turns me on in my head is very unusual. There’s just not that many people who seem to have that sense of humour and self-deprecation that I appreciate.

Anyway, I had a long think last night, and I’m figuring that he’s probably not going to leave his wife. But, in answer to your questions.

a) she found the website after he did. He’d clicked on my signature (that I thought I’d carefully deleted) and she checked his cache. He’s not a computer geek!

b) what I REALLY know about him is how he interacts, behaves, and obviously (only) what he tells me. My friends are usually ace judges of character (otherwise they wouldn’t be my mates) and they all think he’s super. They can’t ALL be wrong. And they wouldn’t blow smoke up my behind - just like you wouldn’t! LOL!

c) his mother can’t stand the wife. Hasn’t liked her since they met (8yrs). Tolerates her for the sake of MM.

d) sticking to his guns refers, I assume, to not breaking down and trying desperately to get her to stay/or to stay himself in the situation they’re in. He did say, “neither of us are learning from our errors, we’re civil for a few days, then it all goes to hell again.”.

e) I agree he’s either in, or out. Of either of us. Ha ha ha.

f) I think I know his weaknesses (inability to believe his gut instinct decisions) and fondness for prevarication. That’s a fairly annoying trait, and one which would piss me off over time, I suppose. But I do want him to give himself the opportunity. I hate watching people throw good time after bad time - know what I mean. *she says, looking long and hard in the mirror*

g) I don’t think he’s a player, based on conversation and behaviour (and I’ve hung out with playas!). No details, but unable to sustain without emotional connection of some description. Then - no problem. Bloody emo. I should get him a stripey shirt.

h) I’m trying to keep myself out of his equation regarding the sabbatical. I don’t think he’s ‘testing my worthiness’ as we live in different countries - so how could he?

i) It’s highly likely I AM a temporary break from the wife.

Part of me is incredibly zen about it all: if the only reason I came into his life was to educate him along the lines of facing up to your problems and dealing with them, then great. If he stays with the wife and makes their relationship strong again, then, overall, good karma to me.

But then I wonder what the hell I get out of it. Oh, hang on, weight loss due to nervous energy? Mwahahahah! Can’t be toooooo bad a thing.

I dunno, I can see that this OW thing isn’t for the faint of heart, that’s for sure. I’m still amazed that you all hang on in there. I haven’t the patience. I think when I see him in a few weeks (after he’s, supposedly, moved out) that I might drop hints about being crap at ‘waiting’ and not going to hang around forever.

But even he realises that he needs to sort his shit out with regards to TW before moving on. And in my head, I totally concur - he DOES need to do things one step at a time. But I have limited patience, and just want to KNOW what he’s planning on doing. Without, somehow, pressurising him into saying something that he might say just to appease me (actually, he wouldn’t, he’d just say, “I can’t tell you that now…it’s too soon.”

Who knows. What was it they say on death row? That hope’s the worst thing to have? They might JUST be right. If I could just console myself to the role of TOW, maybe I’d be satisfied with my lot. Rather than wishing myself to be TONLYW.

Love to you all, look after yourselves.
Eury
XXX
ChasingBtrflyz May 31st, 2007, 1:11 pm

Hi LS,

I don’t think you should give him a deadline, I think you should give yourself one. Make a plan that “if he doesn’t leave within ____ amount of time, I will get on with my life.” The longer they stay with their wife, the longer you’re kept on hold. No matter how much you love him or him you, there has to be a timeframe. TBH, I think we have all given ourselves a deadline to some extent. It’s funny, I remember when I was a teenager… and of course we all (well most of us, lol) experiment with alcohol, pot, whatever. I always told myself that when it stopped being fun, I’d stop doing it. (It did stop being fun.) That’s kind of how I made it this far with the MM and his drama. Whan I can no longer look at him and see any semblence of a future, then it’s time to go. That’s all I’m saying. Be kind to yourself.

Hugs,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz May 31st, 2007, 2:52 pm

Hi Eury,

Please excuse my frankness with the last post to you. I’m not in a position to assume what you have found with your MM…. love, lust, whatever. I was going on the amount of time you have spent with him. The fact that you found someone who challenges your mind is great. Trust me, all MM do, lol.

a) Have you asked yourself why the wife was checking on where he had been online? Did you consider that maybe he has done this before and she knows what signs to look out for? I have to be totally honest. Wives/husbands don’t generally go snooping unless they have a gut instinct that something is wrong. That’s why I asked that question.

b) You know how he interacts and behaves but, what you’re seeing is surface MM right now. It takes time to see the person behind the newness. Everything is grand in the beginning. You click with this person, you connect on a sexual level, etc. But, only time will show his true colors. Not a bad thing because the same can be said of you, lol. As far as your friends, the above rule applies, lol. I’m sure they do look out for your best interest or they wouldn’t be considered friends, right?

c) My MM’s parents hated his wife too. Guess what? His mother still chats with her and does favors for her. The exbitchy has put a lot of time into her personal smear campaign against me and his mother buys it all. I am the whore, period. More to that story but, I digress, lol.

d) Sticking to his guns = not breaking down and/or trying desperately to get HER to stay or to stay himself? He says “neither of them are learning from their errors.” I would imagine not, if he’s cheating and she’s checking up on him and they’re unable to be civil about any of it. See what I mean? I don’t know if this is what’s going on in their marriage, then again, neither do you. There are 3 sides to every story…. his side, her side, and somewhere in between lies the truth. Get my point? lol.

e) You can’t possibly know all of his weaknesses in such a short amount of time. Sorry but, that is highly improbable. What you may have seen was his indecisiveness in his own life, which is what lead him to you in the first place. You, yourself say, “you see his fondness for prevarication.” That speaks volumes to me, as it should you. Is he acting in collusion with you or her? Is he lying to you or her? These are questions that time will ask. His past is a good indicator of his future. Sad but, nonetheless true.

f) He’s unable to sustain without an emotional connection? Am I reading that right? How can an emotional connection be formed in such a short period of time? Hence, my thoughts on lust over anything else. And if this is the case… Did you consider that maybe it’s the thrill of the chase for him? That you are merely an opportunity? * Not saying that this is the case, just thinking out loud.*

g) When I said, “testing your worthiness.” I meant, he’s trying to figure out if you’re worth giving up his current life for. Are you better than the wife and child at home? Better than the expectations and responsibilities, etc.

h) Do you want to be “just HIS temporary break” from the wife? Isn’t there maybe someone out there who wants to be your permanent be all to end all? Would you be passing up better opportunities, only to be someone’s escape for the moment?

You readily admit that you’re not patient and that “waiting” isn’t your strong suit. So, I think you obviously expect more out of this than the occasional shag, here and there. Even at this early stage of things. Of course you want him to make the decision on his own. Nothing like “making” a man be with you, eh? lol. Seems like that’s what he has now with wifey, doesn’t it?
As I’ve told countless others, this is your life and only you can decide what you’re going to make of it. You decide what you can and can’t live with. All I’m saying is to go in with your eyes AND your mind wide ass open. Don’t fall into the trap of making excuses for him. Accept only that which you can deal with. No more, no less. Keep us updated.

Best wishes for you and please, take care of YOU.

Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 1st, 2007, 10:17 pm

Hi ladies,

OK, I’m giving you the opportunity to vote….. I called the asshole. He spouted sentiments of I love you…. blah.. blah…. blah…. But, I haven’t heard from him since. It’s been since yesterday at around 9 AM ET. I have a plane ticket to his hometown which will no doubt surprise and yes, possibly shock the hell out of him and his family. Do I go? Do I push the envelope? I am tired of all the BS. All I really want is the truth. How ever ugly that may be! It’s time for me to rebuild my life. I can’t do that with all his charm and BS. I want the truth. Am I wrong for wanting that??? I’m ready for what may come. I just want to catch him with his pants down because I feel like that’s what I think I’m going to find. I called him 3x today…. he got my messages but, did not elect to call me back (probably because he thinks I’m too far away.) Do I go and find out for myself? Do I put an end to this misery? Right now, he’s expecting me to be somewhere I’m not…..I finally have the upperhand? Do I play the cards I’ve been dealt? Tell me what you really think?????????

Chasing
LS June 1st, 2007, 10:50 pm

Chasing:
DO IT! Like you said, you need to either move on and get on with your life or be stuck in the same cycle, always wondering, listening to his BS and sentiments. This is a rare and great opportunity to not only see what he is made of but also find out how he truly feels about you. It might be hard and very hurtful if you see maybe the ugly truth OR just what he needed to move forward with YOU. You know what I mean?? You are not wrong in any way shape or form for wanting that and for wanting to know more and know the truth. You just have to be strong and prepare yourself for the worst. I don’t want to scare you or deterr you in any way but it is the truth. Preparing yourself for the worst might actually end up not being so bad and maybe he will surprise YOU. All of us OW DESERVE the truth in all our situations no matter how diffierent they might all be and you have this wonderful opportunity infront of you to get the answers you NEED (not want) and also this may help you let him go for good or give him that shove that he needed. Maybe he will be so happy that you did and it will be just what you needed to move forward as a COUPLE.
I just want you to be ready and prepared incase you do see the ugly truth, if you think you can handle that and it will help you move on for good. Do it girl. We will all be here for you no matter what and will help you with and through anything. Don’t even doubt that. I look at it like we are all Sisters. We need to stick together and help each other out. Just like we always have.
Trust your instincts in the end and also your heart too. As much as it hurts cause our hearts are what got us in these messes, LOL, sometimes you need to listen to them. If it doesn’t feel right or you are getting uneasy there is probably a reason…….
Time to make HIM be accountable and tell the truth for once and give HIS all.
Be strong girl.
Fortuna June 1st, 2007, 11:36 pm

Hi to all of you girls

I AM IN DESPERATE NEED OF AN ADVICE , I broke up with MM 10 days ago I have been with him for 2years I lived a roller coaster of emotions as you all know, I managed 10 dayd ago to ask him not to call me again unless he has an intention to change the situation ,the bustard did not even argue with me until today he did not make any contact and ofcourse I am doing my best not to call it was difficult the first few days but somehow I manged to stay strong thanks to an article I have read on this site called the 10 commandements of breaking up which I found on this site I am up and down but everyday that goes by I feel stronger and angrier I suppose it is because he acted like an asshole by ignoring me totaly I feel insignificant
It is war in my head right now I am so miserable and unhappy while he is holidaying with his wife by the sea. his wife knew he cheated on her but he managed to convince her it was over while we weres still together ofcourse she always has her doubt .
I was thinking to call his wife to tell her that he is still cheating on her and she should have never beleived him I am so so angry that he is having fun with her while I am sitting here longing for him .
PLEASE SOMEBODY SAY SOMETHING TO ME HELP I AM GOING OUT OF MY MIND
ChasingBtrflyz June 2nd, 2007, 1:43 pm

Hi Fortuna,

I’m sorry that you’re in such a dark place right now. You made it this far, that’s a positive sign. Yeah, that insignificant feeling is a hard one to shake. I used to feel like I was the most disposable part of my MM’s life. Waiting alone while he was vacationing. Spending holidays and my birthday alone. It was mind numbingly difficult to stay upbeat through the entire ordeal. Sometimes, he would get angry at my requests to not be told the details about his time with TW. He thought it meant I didn’t want to hear what he had to say. Well, not about THAT, lol. I mean come on, would he have wanted to hear about somebody I was off with? Hell, he couldn’t even stand hearing about my past relationships. Geez…… double standard thing again!
Anyway, you’ve made it this far. Don’t call him. Don’t bother calling TW because a) she probably WON’T believe you anyway. b) he’ll just make up more lies and you’ll end up looking like some raving lunatic. You have every right to feel angry and hurt. This rollercoaster is so damaging. Even when you want the damn thing to stop, you still find yourself reeled back in by unresolved feelings of loss. We OW, are never given closure. That’s the “knock you on your ass” sad truth about being in an affair. They love you enough to screw you _____ times a week but, don’t ask for anything else cos they won’t give it! What bastards! You deserve a good man. Someone who will love you and only you. Someone you can go to sleep with every night and wake up to every morning. First, you have to get your head right. Get out with some friends, find a hobby, volunteer at some charity. Anything to help you start to feel good about yourself again. You are valuable. You have worth. You will get through this. Keep us updated.

Take care,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 2nd, 2007, 2:15 pm

Hey LS,

I’m heading to his hometown today. On a lay over there on my way home. He did finally call but, it was a really brutal conversation. I asked why he hadn’t called me and he said, “because I didn’t want to talk to you.” I asked why and he said, “because you basically dumped me.” WTF????? He told me he had been out drinking with a friend. Probably out porking that beast! How did he manage to turn this into something about HIM? Geez…. poor him. I guess I’m supposed to allow the BS and smile like an idiot. He knew that wasn’t how I am from the get go. No surprises here.

Anyway, it got pretty heated and ugly. For such a “good man” (his description of himself) he sure did hit below the belt. I actually couldn’t believe the things he said. Where is this backbone when dealing with that piggly beast of an ex wife? I’m totally confused. Then he had some sort of temper tantrum (a 50 yr. old man) lmao. He hung up on me and turned off his phone. Well, maybe it was that extra glass of wine but, I was not going to take that bullchit! I knew he was at his mother’s, so I called her house phone. She answered, and I politely told her that I thought her son needed some psychiatric help and that I hoped she would help him get it. He called me back directly, called me all kinds of horrific names, then cut me off again. Good gosh, am I in kindergarten again??????? lmfao. He did call back a few minutes later and said, “at least my family loves me.” WTF? I started laughing hysterically, which really fired him up. I got myself pulled together and calmly said, “maybe that’s because your family doesn’t really know WHO or WHAT you truly are, OR maybe they’re just as insane as you are!” I mean seriously, he didn’t get this way on his own! He hung up again and turned off his phone. It’s 7 AM here and it’s still off, lol.

I don’t know what I’ll do when I get to his hometown but, I’m going to make my presence VERY known. Maybe I’ll even run into exbitchy. You never know. Besides I feel like making somebody else cry for a change, lol.
I’ll keep you posted!

Hugs,
Chasing
Jennifer June 2nd, 2007, 3:43 pm

Go for it Chasing!
Eurygnomes June 2nd, 2007, 7:25 pm

Hey girls. Not really an update on my situation, more me saying stuff in answer to other posts. Chasing - good Lord. So much seems to have happened recently. You’re usually very calm and sane (sounding) so I figure that you’ve got all your faculties working now too. Stay safe, don’t put yourself at risk of personal injury/harm with TW, and keep cool babycakes.

Crappy platitudes, I know, and I should know better, but I am seriously hungover so not making much sense.

Apo-logies.
Eury
Fortuna June 2nd, 2007, 7:49 pm

Hi Chasing,

I am ever so greatefull for your reply, I was so looking forward to have some time for myself to go on line and check my mail believe me you `ve made my day it was so soothing and immediately it lifted my moral; thank you ever so much , it is 19.30 over here I am so happy that the day went by gently and peacfully and I am looking forward to spend tomorrow the same way every now and than the pain comes and go again I am a person who does not have the vertue of patience as I am expeting the pain to go away as fast as possible (unreasonable ).
I do hope Chasing, that you will resolve your problems with your ex MM soon and get your peace as soon as possible as we do not deseve this pain at all , every experience every story I read on this forum was my experience ,my story I suppose every thing in life has it is time , I think inspite of our circomstances and suffering things are meant to happen for a reason ;somehow whatever the reason is I DO HOPE IT WILL NOT DRAG AND DO A LOT OF DAMAGES .
Meanwhile I pray to all of us to stay strong and healthy ,
Lots of love
Fortuna
Jennifer June 2nd, 2007, 9:38 pm

Hi everyone. I hope all are doing well. I need some support today which will be such an awesome thing… please PLEASE go to http://www.95wiilrock.com & click on GODSMACK then please VOTE for our band. If we win we get to open for them on June 12. This is a once in a lifetime chance & have been working hard for 20 yrs for something like this. We’re in 1st place but voting ends tomorrow. PLEEEEASE support me in this? VOTE for 2WEST!!!
Thank you SOOOOO much!!

Hugs,
Jen
Jennifer June 2nd, 2007, 9:39 pm

BAND NAME: 2WEST

HELP???!!! Thanks! It’d make my world SOOO much brighter!!!
ChasingBtrflyz June 3rd, 2007, 1:33 pm

Hey Eury,

It only seems like so much has happened lately but, in reality this is the way it’s been, pretty much since MM and TW separated/divorced. Because of TW’s personality disorder and the MM’s inability to set limits and/boundaries with her, the drama never ends, lol. I think I’m just in that place where I want to either move ahead, or move on. The thing is, having been the OW, it’s hard to shake that feeling of being a mere afterthought. It doesn’t help when you’re dealing with an exW who refuses to let go. This woman wants to remain in control of her “past life” with MM. The things I could tell you, lmao. Let’s just say she is the master of the “mind-fu*k game.”
While I am usually sane, it’s not always an easy feat when the people around me are anything but! lol.
I’ll update shortly but, I wanted to reply to everyone first…..

Take care,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 3rd, 2007, 1:51 pm

Hi Fortuna,

I’m glad to help. You sound much better this time around. Ah, that damn rollercoaster again, lol. Whenever you start feeling really low, come on in and vent. That’s why we’re all here. I think all of us are looking for the patience to just make it through the day sometimes. Maybe taking one day at a time is the best course of action afterall. Not easy but, what else can we do? Are you getting out with friends? Do you have at least one good hobby that can keep your mind off of things? (even for an hour.) I suggested doing vounteer work because I know that it’s hard to keep the focus on ourselves when we’re trying to help others. It helps to keep things in perspective. Plus, it actually does help restore our feeings of self worth. I wish you a calm and peaceful day.

Hugs,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 3rd, 2007, 2:43 pm

Hi Jen,

Opening for Godsmack, that is a golden opportunity. This is your band? I’ll have to go take a look. Get back to you soon.

Take care,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 3rd, 2007, 4:03 pm

Ok ladies,

My update….Did as I said. Found MM at his mothers house. He was quite stunned to see me. It was a good stunned though. We talked for hours. He apologized for his behavior. He told me that he was angry but, not really at me. Um… OK. He said he was frustrated that things between us are moving so slowly and that he knew he was mostly to blame. Said he understood my fear that “she” would be too much of an intereference in our lives. All nice and good….. I have heard these same words before. I want ACTIONS, not words! So, that’s what I told him. He went on to say that he truly wanted no contact with her. He admitted that he used me as the excuse (the scapegoat) because he was afraid that she would twist things up and start creating problems with the kids again. I told him I thought it was high time that he be honest with those kids and stop letting her bad behavior go unchecked. If they are old enough to listen to HER BS, then they are damn well old enough to know the truth! I told him I felt like he was protecting her at my expense and that I wasn’t going to accept that anymore.
*Example: About a year ago, he sent in his Rx to the mail order Rx company that his insurance carrier deals with. (His daughter was still on his Rx insurance and takes the same sleeping pill he does.) Insurance company screwed up and sent his meds to exbitchy’s house. When his meds didn’t arrive, he called the Rx company who told him that they sent out his order 3 weeks earlier. He told them that he never received them. They did some checking and that’s how we found out that they had been sent to ex. He calls ex and asks if she got his meds by mistake. At first she totally denies it. Then she comes up with this excuse that she must have mistaken them for the daughter’s meds. She never offered to check and she never offered to give them back to him. WTF? He let her get away with it. I was fuming. I mean this is illegal as hell and he’s not going to hold her accountable?????? So, I called her (yes I told him I was going to) and told her that what she did was illegal and that I was calling the post office to report that she had stolen his prescription meds and then I was calling the Rx company to turn her ass in. She tried to give me some sob story. I told her to shit can the act because I wasn’t buying it. Before I could even call him, she was at HIS mothers house crying like a baby. Of course the kids were there (perfect audience for her to set me up as the bad guy, again) I guess the daughter got upset and when MM called me back, he played right into it. He actually asked me if I would like to explain to his daughter why her mother was crying. WTF???? Of course I said, “hell yes, I want to explain why. I want to explain that her mother did something wrong/illegal and that I called her on her bad behavior.” Well, he refused to let me talk to the girl. God forbid someone should be honest with the girl! 3 days later, exbitchy sends him a bag full of sample Rx meds that she stole from work. Do you see what kind of disordered mind I’m dealing with here??? She stole his meds then stole more meds from work to cover her ass! Apparently 2 wrongs make a right (in her twisted mind) OMG!!!!!!!!!
Anyway…….I told him that I wanted to take a break from all the insanity for a little while longer. He told me that he didn’t want to lose me and that I was right for feeling the way I do. That he had put me in an awkward position by constantly allowing exbitchy’s BS. He apologized profusely. He asked if there was anything he could do to prove that he was willing to make the changes that even he knows he needs to make. I told him that I wanted him to get some counseling. That I wanted him to explore the reasoning behind his inability to deal with the Beast and his children in a more realistic way. I told him that I was willing to go to couples counseling as well but, that he had to show me that he was serious this time by getting individual therapy. He agreed to do so. Then I told him that if he ever treated me with such disrespect again (the name calling and silent treatment) that I would walk away for good. He apologized again. Sooo, I’m not sure what my future holds but, I am not overly optimistic to be completely honest. I think he’s been playing these sick, twisted games with her and the kids for so long that it may be an ingrained patten of behavior that can’t be fixed. I am not depressed though. I feel like a load was lifted off my shoulders. I made my statment and either he will follow through or I will finally have the peace of letting him go for good. I’m not afraid of losing him anymore. I think I might just be over all the drama, lol.

BTW, what do all of you think about that whole Rx example I gave above? Am I being unreasonable and judgmental? Let me know what you think, lol

Take care all and have a blessed day!

Hugs,
Chasing
Voice June 3rd, 2007, 7:41 pm

Chasing,

It is true to say that the ex sounds like a top of the line nut job!!!! I would of handled the whole Rx thing the same way. Stealing from work to cover the fact she was trying to get one up on him is just so wrong. It must breach so many moral/illegal issues. Surely she is risking her job and not to mention freedom by doing it.

As for the rest, it’s the same old thing isn’t it? talk is cheap. He needs to deliver on his intentions. huge advantage to this is you are in a place where you can walk if he doesn’t. But to be honest even if he doesn’t do it for you, he needs to do it for himself. Otherwise he may aswell have the word welcome stamped on his a*se and carry on being a doormat for the rest of forever….

Take Care.
Cherrie' June 4th, 2007, 12:30 am

Hey all you wonderful gals - I haven’t posted in a couple of months…new job takes up a lot of my time. It is getting close to the 1 year deadline for my MM to file for divorce. I told him yesterday that if he can’t decide - then I will decide for him and walk away. He said he knows I am right - he does not love his wife nor want to be any where near “the bitch” , as he calls her; she’s a nut case and angry most of the time; they haven’t slept together in 10 months, he does not call her or go anywhere with her…yada, yada, yada… I have heard this so many times. I do expect him to put his children’s welfare first but he always insist they will be alright and that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He has a week to decide if he really wants to file for a divorce.
Everything you ladies do makes me laugh or cry and cheer you on because I think being with a MM has made me a little too sneaky. He has been able to stay with me for a while because wifey is out of town helping sick relatives. (I love him being in my bed every night!) Last night, he fell asleep and I grabbed his cell phone and started reading the text messages and checking the dialed/rec’d calls. That SOB!!! There were “I love you’s” and “goodnight my love” to and from her and he called her 8 times yesterday!! (I was wondering why he always goes out to his truck.) Then, as I was looking thru the messages…wifey sent him I message!!!!yikes!!…I couldn’t resist…I typed back the word “Idiot”. She responded by calling his cell so of course I answered and I was very quiet. She finally hung up after saying hello 20 times (moron). She sent him a message asking him what the hell he meant by idiot and what is really going on over there!! I deleted everything I could and put his phone back in his pants. Then I woke MM up and said “you have to leave” He just looked at me in disbelief, got up and left. I was laughing and mad at the same time!! Then I thought - look what this is doing to me - maybe she is a nut case ’cause he made her that way and it is happening to me!! Great…just great! I love him dearly but now I really do not trust anything he says. The next couple of days should be interesting. Thanks everybody.
Voice June 4th, 2007, 12:58 am

Cherrie,

It’s such a cr*p feeling when you catch them out isn’t it? I’ve been there too with my ex husband.(full story on the message boards)

You are so right about learning to be sneaky when it comes to being with an MM. I actually surprise myself sometimes with how devious I’ve become since seeing an MM. Learning to control situations and manipulate them to my advantage etc etc. It’s funny cos 5 years ago I would never of said that I would be the person I’ve become. Guess you never know what life is gonna chuck t you.

Take Care.
Cherrie' June 4th, 2007, 1:00 am

Found this song by James Morrison on a my space…The Piece Don’t Fit Anymore”…guess I am preparing myself…

Website:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1816053425
Cherrie' June 4th, 2007, 1:07 am

Thanks Voice, for making me feel better…after I posted and reread - I feel like I am making my own misery…but I rather not live as a fool either. (This southern humidity is fogging up my brain!)
Voice June 4th, 2007, 1:27 am

Cherrie,

Just remember if you can make your own misery, then you can make your own happiness too!

And I don’t think you are a fool either, what I do think is, he has maybe presented himself as a lonely husband with a wife who is maybe not quite right or doesn’t understand him blah blah blah. I’ve been reading these boards long enough to know that eventhough the situations vary the reasons/excuses don’t.

Take Care
Cherrie' June 4th, 2007, 2:53 am

What I like about all the post on this board is that when someone gives you their take on the situation and it makes you sit up and say “hey - I never thought about it that way” - that is awesome!
Voice June 4th, 2007, 3:09 am

Cherrie’

Thats true. what I also like is theres no judgment, but always a straight answer. I always try cut through the cr*p t call things as I see them when someone needs help. Our situations can be filled with so many lies deceptions etc. It’s always nice to get some perspective on it all here.

Take Care
ChasingBtrflyz June 4th, 2007, 5:07 am

Ladies,

You are all awesome in my book! Seriously, this place with “others” is a little piece of sanity in an insane situation. Which we all could use from time to time. It’s so easy to get down on ourselves, the craziness and drama plus the judgements of people who just don’t understand. I am thankful for the opportunity to receive and offer moral support to such a great group of people.

Voice,
Yep, she is nuttier than a fruitcake but, he must also be to some extent as well. I mean he did stay for 22 yrs. Even now, he’s out from under and is still asking how high when she yells jump. He may enjoy that sort of thing…. I do not. You’re right, I am in a better place right now. Better than I have been in some time. I can’t explain it either. Maybe we need to hit the bottom before we can see the surface. I don’t know. I just feel differently. Keep giving it to me straight though. I’ll probably bounce around a few more times, lol. But, I’ll get there!

Hugs
ChasingBtrflyz June 4th, 2007, 5:36 am

Hi Cherrie’,

Oh my…. been there—done that! lol. Don’t be too hard on yourself. We all get a bit devious when trying to figure things out or get at the truth. All totally normal under these circumstances. Wow, the things I’ve done. I have surprised myself at times. lol. Honestly, we have to be our own best advocate. Just because we are the OW, doesn’t mean we deserve to be lied to or treated with disrespect. I remember one time…. it was relatively soon after my MM and his psycho-ex separated. He was here visiting me and we were um… busy, lol. His phone rang and it was the ex. He didn’t answer obviously. Later, when he thought I was asleep, he got up, grabbed his phone, and headed out the back door. I waited a few minutes and then quietly followed him. I wanted to know who he was talking to. (Like I didn’t already) I waited around the corner so I could hear the conversation. When I realized that it was another one of her BS calls… I walked up behind him, took the phone from his hand and tossed it into the pond. Talk about shocked. He was utterly speechless. I told him that he could pack his sh*t and catch a cab back to the airport if she was so all fired important. I used his own sneakiness to bust him on his careless disregard for me. My point? We all get a little burned out from time to time. As long as you’re not stalking her or some other troubling behavior. Chalk it up to nerves. BTW, I actually asked my MM if he made his wife the lunatic she is? Because like you, I felt myself sinking into the craziness and lies that were his life. I even remember one time laughing hysterically to the point that I didn’t even realize that I was really crying. When it gets that bad, please call a trusted friend. Or come here and vent. That is too lonely a place to be. Oh, and you’re not crazy…. crazy people never wonder if they are. See my point??? lol. Keep us posted.

Take care of you!
Cherrie' June 4th, 2007, 12:37 pm

Good morning & thank God for coffee!!
ChasingBtrflyz - Thanks for my morning chuckle! (you threw his phone in the pond!) LOL! Whew! I see your point! I think I will be making more time to come visit y’all more often. (And I do have a wonderful friend here in town who sets me straight from time to time.)
He called last night and he knew what I did w/ his cell. And I didn’t lie about it because I wanted to know what was up. He said he tries to keep her pacified because of the children. He doesn’t want her upset and start mouthing off at the kids. He also said she will be shocked if he does file for divorce. Huh??? Come on - she’s gotta know something’s up.
I was thinking I do have it pretty good - me & MM can go out anywhere, anytime. Or I can go out with friends anytime. But - there is this little things that irks me…how can you stay married to someone you don’t love. And how can you love someone so much and not want to be with them? I can be Miss Happy-go-lucky if I don’t think about all that. Our conversation ended with there being a serious trust issue and both of us will try to work on things. Every day is a new day…it’s raining out but who cares!!! Have a good week everybody! Thanks for sharing!
ChasingBtrflyz June 4th, 2007, 1:03 pm

Cherrie’,

Ahh, the question of how? lol. I’m glad you got a laugh from my post. Yep, I threw the phone in the pond. At first he was pretty upset but, later in the evening, we both had a good laugh over drinks. I just think that sometimes it’s normal to get a little pissed off. We are human after all. It’s not like ALL the stress is on the “poor MM” alone. Please…. if you ask me, he has it damn good! lol.
I wish I knew how they can stay with someone they don’t love. Basically, I think most men are cowardly. I also think MM who cheat are “followers” in their married lives and so when they get with us, they get to be “the man”, the “leader” once in a while. lol. Just my own observation though.
I wonder how your MM explained the “idiot” TM. To be a fly on that wall, lmao. You say, that you’re coming up on the deadline for MM to ask for his divorce? Do you think he will? Has he given you any indication that he’s going to follow through? I can tell you that my MM never said I love you to his wife while he was involved with me. I heard many of their conversations. He never went to his car or another room to call. Which is why the incident above threw me for a loop and probably why I reacted the way I did. Of course they had been married a long time and had no respect for each other by the time I came into the picture. Maybe that’s the diff. I’m hearing. As far as TW being shocked, I suppose if my hubby was texting me romantic little messages and saying I love you all the time, it would come as a shock to me too, lol. Know what I mean? Watch out girl. You may be the hunted before this is over with, lol.

I wish you all good things today. Look forward to hearing from you again.
Take care!
Cherrie' June 5th, 2007, 12:08 am

ChasingBtrflyz - Now that you scared the cr@p out of me - I don’t want to be the hunted!! I don’t want them to play the game “kill daddy’s girlfriend” LOL! You know your observations give me a different perspective. You have been thru a lot for your MM.
I have heard him talk to W and he has been very direct (you have to talk to her like a child) and kinda mean to her.(That’s probably how “idiot” was accepted by her) I think the “love you’s” are what just as he says - to keep the peace. BTW - he said if he snooped thru my things, I would have thrown him over the balcony.(It’s only 2 stories - he wouldn’t have gotten too hurt!) The thing is - I have nothing to hide. Why do I care about this man soooo much? (besides the amazing all over the house sex - too much info..sorry) We go public places as a couple and he is the most considerate person - makes sure I have everything I need. And I do make sure he is taken care of in every way. It’s just so much fun being with him! Maybe I like the unavailable MM because I am the one not ready to make the committment…uh - did I really just say that? I think it is a tough decision for him to file for divorce and I really can’t guess at the outcome - 50-50. I am not pestering him about it though. I am still happy with him, ummm, except for the “wife thing”, which I guess is the main reason I get so pissed.
LS - I went back and read a lot of the post to catch up and some of the things you say sound like what I am thinking too. I don’t know why we stay in these kinds of relationships. But I am glad to know there are other wonderful women in the same situation. No one man should define us. It’s just so damn hard…I was told I think too much…and drinking wine makes me think even more!! Sometimes I wanna kick him in the nuts and other times…nevermind.
Y’all have a good evening. I think my MM is coming over. Even though we just went thru all this, I can’t wait to see him! Why why why????
Cherrie' June 5th, 2007, 12:11 am

I just realized my post said 12:08am…is everybody far away? I am on the Gulf Coast. Just wondering. Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
LS June 5th, 2007, 12:32 am

Cherrie:
I am on PST, West Coast. Where is everyone else??? I think we are all pretty spread out for the most part. Right now it is 4:30pm for me. Almost time to go home and see my MM, just like every other day after work….Unless he breaks a date with me that is! ANYWAY, there are ALOT of us wonderful INTELLIGENT (we all know we are beautiful, LOL) in these situations and I am not sure why we stay or how we get into them in the first place. I always said I would NEVER get involved with a MM, and here I am almost a year into it and completely in love with him! WTF! If I found out my MM had been sending “I love you ” texts to his wife, that would be it for me. I would seriously have NO problem dumping his ass. Especially after all the shit he told me about their relationship and how he is only staying due to hsi child being so young, so if I found out all that was a lie and he was saying shit like that to her. Fuck him. It would be SO easy for me to up and walk away. No way would I put up with that or stick around. I feel that I put up with enough crap and heartache as it is already. I don’t need that to worry about too. So with that being said, what are you going to do? How long have you guys been together?? I agree with Chasing on this one, you better be careful! That just all sounds too fishy to me. Atleast I have the comfort of knowing that my MM and his wife even slept in separate beds BEFORE we even got together, so I doubt he would be saying I love you to her!
Anyway, when is your deadline??
Cherrie' June 5th, 2007, 2:23 am

LS - It’s 8:15pm where I am (Hurricane central!)
You freak me out girl! Because I know you are probably right and I don’t want you to be! I don’t want to let go yet (my girlfriend said just use him for sex and leave all emotions out of it, ya know - like a man - but he is always so loving towards me)
You are a tough cookie - your man must know not to cross you! How do you deal with him breaking dates? When that happens to me, I go out with girlfriends and then have a hangover the next day! I just called him and he fell asleep and said he will come by later. Can I scream now - damn-it - my moods go from happy to pissed cause now I gotta wait. When did I become such a pansy! I guess with age. I am a little older than him (31) - that might have a lot to do with everything!!
We have been together almost a year (11 months & 20 days!) I don’t know what he is going to do. Ever since Sat. night, he has been acting distant and tried to turn this all on me for being too nosy. No way buddy-boy - you called her eight times in one day!!!! He said they are dealing with issues and I just don’t get it. Whatever!! You see - chatting with you makes me tough too! Look out - I might have to kick some ass!!
Eurygnomes June 5th, 2007, 9:33 am

Chasing,

Something you said earlier really struck a nerve. Something about MM’s being followers at home (I’m fairly certain mine is) and in charge in their relationships with us.

And one thing that I’ve always wanted is someone who will stick up for themselves against me. I’m usually the stronger one in a relationship.

Is this one of the reasons we allow ourselves to put up with these insane situations? Because most of the people we meet will kowtow to our every whim? And these guys can’t/won’t make themselves sappy and available like that - so that’s part of the attraction?

If that’s the case, what happens if/when we finally ‘get’ them? Do we want them for them? Or did we just like the drama of the situation and ‘chase’?

Questions for the ether.
Love and luck to you all,
Eury.
Cherrie' June 5th, 2007, 12:23 pm

Eury - Good question! And I have thought about that & even told him if he leaves W, he is not moving in with me. I like my space and he may have a kid or two along and they really don’t know me. I do like the chase. Always have. The drama - not so much. But it seems to go hand in hand. I think he wonders too, once I have him, will I really want him. That is something that will present itself over time. Some days I do, some days I don’t.
LS June 5th, 2007, 6:35 pm

Cherrie:
I just don’t take his shit. I have told him from day 1 not to fuck with me, lie to me, or lead me on. If it is only about sex, tell me. If you still love your loser ass wife, tell me. You know? So he knows that. And we are 100% honest with one another and our relationship. Granted he still breaks dates but it is always related to his child, so can I really get pissed at that? Back to what you were saying, it is pretty much damn near impossible for ANY woman to just be in a relationship with a man for sex and not have it eventually lead to major feelings. That is just not how we are wired! No matter how tough we are and how much we tell ourselves we can handle it. I don’t buy it. And don’t try and tell yourself that you can do it. I am not trying to be rude at all, I just want you to be smart about it and prepare yourself. Does that make sense?
LOL, girl you are like me. When he breaks plans with me, I call up my girls and we go out! I am not going to stay at home crying and be pathetic! Hell no. I still live my life as per usual. I always tell him to, the only reason I go out so much is cause YOU can’t take me dude! HELLO!!! If he wants to be a part of my life, he can be. I have been here all along. That’s funny cause me and my MM have been together for 11 months as well. Do you have a deadline for yours? I don’t but I am thinking about setting one for myself, a “get out” point in time where I will know that maybe he will never fucking leave. HIS LOSS. I know he is crazy about me and I know he is madly in love with me, but at the same time, how much does he love me if he still goes home to a wife he says he hates?? He says it is for his child, but sometimes I think we all wonder……
Cherrie' June 6th, 2007, 4:16 am

My MM found out today that his Dad has cancer that is already at stage 3. Pretty bad. He’s such a nice man too. Needless to say, MM was a mess. He kept saying “life is too short” - “I need to do something about us because I want you to be the one I share the rest of my life with”. Then after a couple of drinks (truth serum?), he had tears in his eyes and said - I really hate that bitch (W) but it is really because of the boys that I stay. They have a yours, mine & ours kinda thing so some will be split up. So I am preparing myself for the worst & hoping for the best. And W is coming back to town this week (freakin’ yippee!) with the kids. He said he was going to talk to her??? He said even when they are all home, he still feels lonely because he is not with me. Sometimes I want to believe everything - but I am not a trusting person anyway, so I am watching my back.
My girlfriend & I have an idea. MM’s wife goes out sometimes with her friends. We are gonna find out where she is & make friends with her and start talking about how much we hate our husbands (which we don’t have) and see if we can get her talking. It’s an idea that we laugh about while drinking but won’t ever happen.
LS, you believe everything your MM says? You trust that it is always the truth? How do you get to be so sure - how do you know, if you are not in his house? That’s usually when I start doubting him…when I know he goes home and she is there and leaves the one he loves (me!!) behind.
I do have the deadline for both of us - 1 year - which is sneaking up soon. We are supposed to go on a little vacation together. I have to say thank goodness he has a job where he can say “I have to go out of town” in a moments notice (out of town means my house).
ChasingBtrflyz June 6th, 2007, 1:39 pm

Cherrie’,

I’m sorry to hear about your MM’s father. My MM’s father passed the end of March this year after a lengthy illness, though it was rather sudden. Not to scare you again but…. my MM’s exbitchy tried to use the death as a doorway back into MM’s life. She made sure she called frequently, showed up at the hospital, his parents home, and the subsequent funeral services. Even used the children’s grief as an excuse to be where MM did not want her. I honestly believe that she is playing off of MM’s fears of his own mortality (he is 50.) Actually, she is still using HIS mother’s grief as a reason to remain in “the family.” Talk about twisted. I should tell you, these are people she talked so badly of and treated so horribly, yet she used it to her advantage. MM’s parents (father inparticular, disliked the ex with a passion.) Strangely enough, exbitchy’s motives are so crystal clear to me, that I wrote in my journal weeks before his death that I knew she would use it as a way to get back with MM. That’s how certain I am of her “Personality Disorder.” This is not the first time I have foreseen her behaviors. MM asked me once if I had a crystal ball, that’s how accurate I am. I keep telling him that Narcissism carries a specific pattern and that’s how I stay one step ahead of her. How I can guess what she’s up to. I even foretold that she would kick daughter out after the child support ended. She did!
My point? Just be careful. If your MM’s W has an inclination that her marriage is in jeopardy, she will probably use this family tragedy to her benefit. Hopefully, your MM will stay strong and realize that life really is too short to be stuck in an unhappy marriage. Best of luck to you and prayers for the father.

Take care.
ChasingBtrflyz June 6th, 2007, 2:38 pm

Eury,

I say “followers” at home because that’s where all their strife comes from. The obligations, the bills, the children. We are like an escape. With us, there are no obligations, just peace and calm. An oasis from the real world. Initially they feel the headiness of being “in charge”, though this usually fades with time. I happen to think that most OW are rescuers by nature. And rescuers are a tad controlling. We like to get in there and fix everything, lol. That’s how we get reeled into this life. Unfortunately, I also think that whatever behavior patterns are present within their marriage, will no doubt surface with us eventually. That’s why most MM never leave the W. These affairs drag on just long enough for one party or the other to become disillusioned. Maybe we begin to get more demanding. Maybe we begin to expect more. Maybe we begin to hold them accountable for their promises to us. Whatever the case, the illusion fades and we become a secondary non wife. The spell is broken and the affair ends. Either at our hands or theirs. I guess it’s about WHO can take the most stress and disappointment.

Wow, I sound so over it all. lol.

These are simply my opinions and observations. Your situations may vary, lol.

Take care.
LS June 6th, 2007, 5:35 pm

Cherrie:
I think every woman can tell if someone is leading them on and if someone is genuine. I always tell him if he is lying to me, he is the best liar I have ever met cause when he looks at me and says the things he does, I can not see how he could be lying. BUT that is not the only reason, we have mutual friends from work and LONG before my MM and i got together I heard the stories about my MM and his wife and how awful their relationship was and all the things he said about her, so that is how I know he is not going home to a wonderful loving wife that he scoops up and passionately kisses as he walks in the door. Infact, from what I heard even in the beginning of their relationship, they were NEVER like that. BUT back to what you were saying, if it is so bad, how do they still leave us (the women they say they love so much) EVERY night and go back to these bitches?? I don’t know. My MM says it is only because of his child. Whatever, I think there comes a point, where that doesn’t even matter anymore. Don’t you think? I don’t know how he can say one minute that he “can not live his life without me” but yet what do you think he is doing at night when I am alone, on the weekends when he is not with me?? LIVING HIS LIFE WITHOUT ME. DUH!
Cherrie' June 7th, 2007, 12:44 pm

ChasingBtrflyz - Thanks for the words of encouragement & prayers for MM’s father. I had already thought that W would take advantage of this situation. Your intuition seems strong and that is a good thing. I started to keep a journal too and it helps. I find it’s kinda messy though because once I start writing and things come to mind, I just can’t write fast enough!! Have you met anyone new? I was re-reading your post about the drugs and my MM’s dumb-ass W does a few different drugs too. It’s funny how she doesn’t have to work and sits aroiund the house during the day when the kids are at school and she still gets money to support her habit. I know it’s him giving her money - probably to keep her mellowed out. If he has any involvement w/ drugs, I would not hesitiate to do what you did too! I don’t want any part of that!
LS - I wish I knew someone on the inside to give me a little insight. W is home now and according to him, they have been arguing non-stop. He came over after work yesterday and of course we did what we do best! (woohoo!) And now it’s back to him leaving after a couple of hours and then I don’t hear from him the rest of the night except maybe a text message or two. Do y’all ever get to spend the weekends together? I am hoping for an “out of town excuse” so he can stay with me. If not, I’ve got a lot of shopping to do and girlfriends to catch up with. If he starts with too many excuses and things take a step back - it will help with making a decision. And I think he is getting the message loud & clear. Have a great day girls!
Jean June 7th, 2007, 2:38 pm

I stumbled across this site by pure accident, but have been dying to talk to people in the same situation as me.

My MM and I have been together for 3 1/2 months. For the first 1 1/2 I didn’t know he was married. I was dating other people at the time and he said he was doing the same. I later learned that he is actually married with two children. I was so hurt when I found out because at that point I had completely stopped seeing other people. My MM was the only man I was interested in. So to learn that he was married devestated me. However, I stayed with him anyways. I see him 3-4 times a week and he seldom stays with me. He has made it clear that he will not be leaving his W. His youngest daughter is only 4 and he wants to ensure that he will be with her as she grows up so he will not leave his wife.

My MM says he cares for me, but how do I really know that? Is it possible for him to love two people? Or does he just say what I want to hear so that I will continue to sleep with him?

I have completely fallen in love with my MM but I have started to wonder if I should leave now before getting my heart completely broke. I just don’t know what to do.
ChasingBtrflyz June 7th, 2007, 3:15 pm

Hi Jean,

Glad you found us. You are also welcome to join the forum…

http://baggagereclaim.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php?sid=6f74bf5f32ca24c7a6107a5deb1eb020

Personally, the fact that he lied to you about being married in the first place is an extreme “red flag” to me. How did you find out? I don’t blame you for being hurt. He tricked you into an affair that you weren’t even aware of, that’s very snake like. Then he tells you that he will not leave his wife? Then maybe he should keep his d*ck in his drawers, lol. Seriously, he has made it clear that you will always come last. Can you live that way? You say that you have fallen in love with him so I’m betting the answer is no. Even if you tell yourself that you can, eventually, it will wear down your self-esteem and feelings of self-worth. Is this something you’re prepared for? There are a few OW who are able to handle this situation but, IMHO they are far and few in between. I guess, only you can decide what is right for you. We can offer moral support, objective opinions, and advice but, this is really something that you need to consider very carefully. It is an emotional rollercoaster. I won’t lie to you. You have to prepare yourself for what will come….. holidays, birthdays, vacations, anniversaries spent alone. The drain can be quite devastating. To be perfectly honest, if I knew then what I know now, I would have run. Just my opinion.

Take care,
Chasing
LS June 7th, 2007, 6:07 pm

Jean:
Ok the fact that you didn’t even know that he was a MM for the first month and a half you were togther is pretty telling about him and that you should probably not be believe what he is telling you. I mean how could you? Your relationship started off on false pretenses. I would be heartbroken if I were you! And the fact that he tells you he is never going to leave his wife, girl you need to end it with him before more time passes and you fall more in love with him which in turn leads to an ever bigger broken heart. Atleast right now, you know it will hurt BUT it has only been 3 months. How well do you really know him?? I am not doubting that you don’t love him and not trying to be harsh at all. I just can’t imagine staying with a MM when he flat out tells me he is never going to leave his wife and not only that he lied to you about being married! WALK, no RUN AWAY! Unless you think you can be with him and handle the thought of always being his OW. Most women can not do that, I know I couldn’t and it doesn’t sound like that is what you want either. Chalk it up to a 3 month fling and move on. I am sure he does truly care about you and has feelings for you as well but girl, he said he was not going to leave his wife. Don’t waste years of your life for someone that will never be yours, it is too heartbreaking enough as it is being the OW. How did you meet and how did your relationship start?
Cherrie' June 8th, 2007, 3:09 am

Here we go again! She’s (W) home again and I hardly hear from him! She was gone for 3 weeks and we saw each other almost ever day & night. And now that (W) is back, it feels like he is being taken away from me. I hate this rollercoaster ride - I could just puke! Don’t freaking call me and the first thing you say is I only have a few minutes to talk. Ughhh!!!

Hi Jean (LOL - Hygiene!) Sorry - couldn’t resist. All I can say is if I only knew how hard this would be now, I think I would have tried to quit my MM at 3 months…but that is usually the time the love feelings start creeping in and it gets harder. Everyone’s advice & comments are truely wonderful and make a lot of sense, but ultimately you are gonna do what you want to do.
That’s why we vent here…and scream…and curse (LS! lol)!!
Cherrie' June 8th, 2007, 3:40 am

This Gwen Stefani song reminds me of our situation. (Except I don’t know how she can have such gorgeous skin & make up if she is crying at 4 in the morning!)

Gwen Stefani — 4 In The Morning Lyrics
Waking up to find another day
The moon got lost again last night
But now the sun has finally had its say
I guess I feel alright

But it hurts when I think
When I let it sink in
It’s all over me
I’m lying here in the dark
I’m watching you sleep, it hurts a lot
& all I know is
You’ve got to give me everything
Nothing less cause
You know I give you all of me

[CHORUS]
I give you everything that I am
I’m handin’ over everything that I’ve got
Cause I wanna have a really true love
Don’t ever wanna have to go & give you up
Stay up till 4 in the morning & the tears are pouring
& I want to make it worth the fight
What have we been doing for all this time?
Baby if we’re gonna do it, come on do it right

All I wanted was to know I’m safe
Don’t want to lose the love I’ve found
Remember when you said that you would change
Don’t let me down
It’s not fair how you are
I can’t be complete, can you give me more?
& all I know is
You got to give me everything
& nothing less cause
You know I give you all of me
Eurygnomes June 8th, 2007, 11:37 am

Chasing,

I think you might be right about being rescuers. I’m very good at sorting out other people’s lives…leaving my own to fall into disrepute and ruin (as long as it comes with infamy though, I don’t think I mind too much! *grin*)

I think, in my situation, I’m actually quite lucky not to be living in the same city (well, the same country!) as my MM, as he’s already alluded to the fact that he’d just be round at my gaff all the time, ostriching even more, and not ’sorting things out’. So, that means that I get to have the fun of having a life over here where I’m never dropping anything to be with him on the scant available moments he has, and at the sam$e time, I can provide him that cheering squad to his ’sorting things out’.

I definitely have the feeling that he’s wanting to make a move on, yesterday he bought a car - thereby ensuring a bit more independence from VTCC (-the-crazy-cow). And the son goes to the grandparents in a few weeks time, he told me yesterday, which means “we’ll be able to sort out stuff.”

Obviously, I can’t be sure which way the pendulum will swing, which is why I’ve informed him that as well as applying for jobs in the UK, I’m also looking at Belgium and The Gambia. His response to that was, “The Gambia. Shit. That’s far away. Er, what are YOUR criteria for a job? Country?” in a kind of hopeful manner. It seemed a bit cruel, but I may as well let him know that there are other options for me out there too.

That didn’t prevent us from having a txt conversation of about 14 messages, and three phone calls last night. One mentioned that he was “physically hurting for me. damn you. X” and they ranged from hilariously jokey to XXX-rated to “all my love” comments. *swoon*

So, I’m still very much in the heady days. Sometimes I can’t see the wood for the trees, and start worrying about the future. But really, I realize that I can’t know what the future will bring. If he’s meant to be with me, he’ll sort out his shit with VTCC and we’ll be together, and we’ll handle her craziness as a team. If he’s not, then I’ll move onto greener, more available pastures.

Can I advise you sign up for messages from the Universe? They take a very zen/buddhist approach and sometimes, they’re exactly what I need to hear - a bit of pep talk/pick me up in the morning is awesome. (http://www.tut.com/mmm.shtml)

Jean: Welcome. It sucks being the OW, and although we’ve all got one thing in common, all of our situations are slightly different, so feel free to come here and speak your mind at any time. Everyone’s been very nice to me and their comments have made me think (and made me worry, from time to time).

One thing about your case though, I couldn’t stand to have been lied to so thoroughly. I mean, he may say that you wouldn’t have slept with him had you known he was married. Is that the case? Then he’s manipulated you into this affair without your consent.

All too frequently, we seem compelled to hand these MM power without asking for respect in return. I’d be pissed off, and letting him know how cheap it had made me feel.

It’s one thing to KNOW you’re going to be lied to (I knew my MM was married from the get go, enough to burst into tears spontaneously after talking for about 8 hrs when we first met!) and to be prepared mentally for it, but to be sideswiped? Honey, you is way mo’ better than deserves that.

That’s one other question for everyone? Does anyone believe they actually deserve to be treated as second best? Or even treated as ‘the oasis’ to whom they run? Because I had a friend offer to set me up as his mistress once (apparently, I make good Mistress material *snort*) and I turned down his serious offer (which was a good one, car, house everything) because I didn’t want to be alone all the times _I_ needed someone. Karma bit ME in the arse a little, didn’t she, since not even 2.5weeks later (I just went back in my archives and checked the dates) I was hooking myself up as the OW to a MM.

Crazy, crazy world.

Cherrie - hope things are going okay with your MM and his grief. Just remember that you need recreational time without dealing with it at some point too, else you’re no good to anyone - least of all yourself.

All: worship thine own self. First. Please?

Love ya
Eury - who realizes she’s come across as a bit of a mother hen in this message and begs your tolerance!!
ChasingBtrflyz June 8th, 2007, 12:43 pm

Hi Cherrie’,

Don’t you hate the times THEY are NOT available to US??? lol. Get used to it hun. Better yet, make sure you miss a call from him once in a while. Don’t make yourself totally available to him. I hate rollercoasters anyway so I was always feeling as if I wanted to retch, lol. All joking aside, don’t allow yourself to get TOO involved in his “other” life, because that’s when you’ll forget all about yours. Take it from someone who’s been there, lol.

Loved the song you mentioned. It is fitting isn’t it?

Keep the faith girl….

Hey Eury,

I think it’s great, you’re letting him know that YOU have options too. I don’t see it as cruel at all. I always reapeat this saying…. “Never make someone a priority, when all you are to them, is an option.” I do believe it has a certain ring of truth to it.
As I said to Cherrie’ above…. don’t allow yourself to be involved too much in his other life. It’s OK to cheer him on but, not to the extent that it takes away your own reserves. How do I know that’s where both of your heads are???? Because of the way you each describe the wifey. Again…. been there, lol. I offered so much of my support that my MM figured he didn’t have to put in so much effort on his own behalf. Bad, bad place to find yourself. It’s an ironic thing too. It’s like you’re not even aware of how far in you are, until you’re almost too deep to dig yourself out.
Don’t you just love the beginning of these affairs? Careful, that’s the hook, lol. It’s all rainbows and roses until someone, (usually us) get’s hurt. Then it’s daggers and dog poo, lmao.
Thanks for the link, I’m going to check it out as soon as I’m done here.

In answer to your question, I never thought or felt that I deserved to be treated as second best. Knowing what I know, with 100% certainty about his ex, I was never and could never be second best. I always felt and told him, that I was definitely a luxury upgrade, lol. I even told the ex that to her face, lol. I thought sparks were going to fly out of her a@@, lmao. Though, the look on her face tells me to this day that even she knew I was right!

LOL @ Mother Hen. You better move it ova sister. There’s a whole lotta hens sharing the roost. Take care.

Hugs,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 8th, 2007, 2:19 pm

Drats! That web site keeps coming back as an error. And I was looking forward to some ZEN time. I’m off in search of good vibes. If I find any, I will be back to share them, lol. Take care all!
Cherrie' June 9th, 2007, 2:26 am

I am so involved in his life - I don’t know who he used to talked to before me!!! And he can talk! And he gets sappy too which is cute. Oh believe me, I do let calls go by, esp. if I am out with my girlfriends. I have a lot of “me” time, which seems to make hime wonder what I am up to! LOL! I think I just expect him to be available when I want him to be. And there have been times when he was free and I had plans…so he pouted!

He is coming to spend the weekend! Yay! He said he told W he was going out of town for work and she said “what else is new?” He is coming to support me too…my son just got orders to go overseas in a couple of months. Knew it would happen sooner or later. That is going to be tough for me! Sucks! Those two got along well when they met. (They are both Cancers - talkers & homebodies)
I know he will lock up his cell phone in his truck this weekend! LOL! (I will not snoop…I will not snoop…!!!!) Take care! Have a great weekend girls! Hugs to all!
Cherrie' June 9th, 2007, 6:21 am

OK ladies - it’s 1217am - know why I am on line…???? Becasue MM just took off to the store to buy his nose strips that he said he forgot. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give me a F–king break!!!! I want to just load up his crap and go find what store he is at and drop it in his cart!! He better come back with bags of grocieries or something! What do yall think?? - he had to call his W before it got too late???
ChasingBtrflyz June 9th, 2007, 1:04 pm

Cherrie’,

If you’ve spent the night together before and he didn’t “require” nose strips, then I would have to say something sounds off to me. Maybe it was a late night call to wifey. I’m not understanding the hiding of his phone calls though. If he has nothing to hide then why hide the calls? My MM always called his wife in front of me. For those couple times he hid the call…. that’s when I knew something was up. Anytime a person changes a set pattern of behavior, you have to wonder why. How long was he gone? I’m assuming it must have been a while because you said, “he better come back with bags of groceries.”
As I’ve said before, this is something that as the OW, you have to be able to get used to. You have to find a way to accept it or it will drive you insane. I know that’s a tall order. This is basically a man who you are “borrowing” for a few hours, days, etc. Can I ask you a question???
Are you certain that all these TM’s and calls are to the wife? I have heard of MM stringing a few OW along at the same time. Sometimes they will put an OW’s number in their phones as a friend, spouse, business associate to try to cover their tracks. You know… a contact nmaed “Fred” but the number might be some other female. (other than the W.) If he’s doing it with you, there is always the possibilty that he’s doing it to you. I just can’t imagine anybody being able to make another say things like, “I love you, miss you, goodnight my love,” etc. if they truly don’t feel that way. I know I couldn’t. Either he’s pulling the wool over your eyes or he is totally whipped, lol. Sorry to be so negative. Just keep your eyes open and your ear to the ground.

Let us know how it plays out.

Hugs
Cherrie' June 10th, 2007, 1:45 am

ChasingBtrflyz - I appreciate the straight talk. Everything you have said has crossed my mind one time or another. Things change everyday with him. I have thought he may have an OW in the town where his Dad lives. I can’t see how he would have time…I know I wouldn’t, nor would it be fun running from one place to another. But guys are different. They think with the wrong head!
He came back from the corner store in 15 minutes and and actually called me from there & asked what aisle they were on. (He does wear them when his sinuses act up & he snores) I do think something fishy is going on - I have been observing him a little more. I promised myself only fun tonight - nothing negative. He is going out of town Monday for work. Yes, he could just be telling me that like he tells his wife when he comes to see me; and it will drive me crazy if I let it. I know, I know -seems like a vicious cycle. A part of me knows the reality, stats & percentages. And when he is annoying, sometimes I am glad he can go home. But the other parts likes the drama, challenge & intrigue. It would be nice to be able to be with a guy who doesn’t have all this “baggage”. And I think one day, it will be over. I never told him I want to marry him, and as I said in a previous post, I don’t want to live with him right away and have to babysit his kids. (Mine are grown & gone!) I just would like him to care about me without being married to someone else. That’s all - that’s what bugs me.
Jen June 10th, 2007, 2:05 am

Hi there… It IS a vicious cycle. For the women whether they’re in my ’shoes’ or the ow. Not worth it. True love cannot be if it’s ever based on deceit of any kind. There’s nothing else to say. I’ll settle for nothing less. Why should I? The stress that comes from worrying about ‘it’, or the energy that’s literally sucked out of you because you know (we ALWAYS know when there’s someone else.) and carry on daily pretending everything’s just peachy because you don’t want to ‘lose’ or you have alot to lose, or, it may be all you have.
How the hell does anyone’s life get this twisted? I never wanted this & I’d give anything to feel better right now. Mentally and physically drained.

J
Voice June 10th, 2007, 8:42 pm

Jen,

I’m not sure ‘true love’ exists. If it does I think it’s probably a let down to a lot of people.

I’m not sure where you are with regards to your situation, but if you’ve made the break then it will get better. if you’re still with your guy and the OW with zero consideration is on the scene still, then yes it is a vicious cycle, but you stilll need that cllean break to get on with your life.

Take Care
Jen June 10th, 2007, 11:19 pm

Hello.
True love…. loaded subject these days. Everything I’ve always believed in has been questioned throughout this past year. Not going there right now. He’s been going out of his way to show me things have changed & making very wonderful efforts, to be honest with you. Maybe I’m just exhausted- working hard lately, in addition to being emotional, as well as fighting an upper respiratory infection. DRAINED.
Seems the ow is out. He’s blocked her from the phone, put a block on e-mail addys, (on his own) etc in addition to handling the situ @ work with his boss by making it unecessary & impossible for her to be in their dept.
I got to the point where I said nothing about it anymore & watched what he did. However, to get past it for good is going to take alot & I don’t know that I’m willing to do that.
I’m sick & tired of the whole subject of cheating! It’s disgusting. My neice just found out her marine husband has been doing that also. I stand back & take a look at all of the deceit I’ve witnessed in the past year & think to myself~ WHY? Why would ppl DO that to anyone-ever? WTF? It’s all so very un-necessary. Just be honest & everything’ll happen as it’s meant to. Right? Christ. Karma’s a bitch man. What comes around finds it’s way back around & goes around again. All those cliches are true even though it may not happen today or tomorrow. It will. A friend of mine, or I should say, someone who portrayed herself as my best friend was very into that kind of deceit & it’s interesting to see her in her new relationship now: She cannot even stand the idea of her new guy cheating on her but she was just fine being the OW behind friends backs. Interesting indeed. Now she cries over insecurities & begs the dude not to sleep with someone else. It was ok for her though. Just thinking out loud….
I look back on the last year & think, “What were the lessons to be learned in all of it?” Were there any? I think I’ve learned things I didn’t want to, such as the reality of the way people take love, friendships & relationships for granted. That people will disregard other’s lives & feelings out of sheer selfishness. And… that the guy in the picture will often get away with it all & keep right on doing it.
Thank GOD every guy isn’t like that, but many more of them are than I ever thought.
I’d like my energetic self back. The one who used to believe in love & have the utmost of a positive happy outlook on life. I’ve taken huge steps to make my life better. There are people I quietly stopped associating with also in order to acheive that & that has brought peace.
We most definitely EARN any grey/white hair we get. Perhaps I should keep the new little ‘discoveries’ I’ve recently noticed instead of being a color specialist on myself!
I wish happiness & peace for everybody. Life’s too short and too long to spend any of it on any type of drama/deceitful type of stuff. One day we’ll all be looking back on this time going…”Whoa… I could have been doing… or, I could have had…” or, “I feel like shit because….” You know what I mean. I don’t want to be that person with a list of regrets. How can I be the best ME I’ve ever been? I gotta tell ya…I’ve had a rough time figuring that one out recently.
There is much to do, but, it’s all good. I’m going back to school & I feel good about that other than a mild case of the “I’m 40…”
Have a great weekend… I need a nap.
Take care!
LS June 11th, 2007, 11:35 pm

So much stuff going back and forth I don’t know where to start ladies! First off, True Love, hmmm….I am not sure it exists either BUT with that being said I DO believe in soul mates. I do think that there is that one perfect person out there for everyone. Sometimes I truly feel that my MM is mine. Seriously, I have never met any guy who was so prefect for me. Similar likes, but no so much that it is annoying, he challenges me in ways that no one has, he doesn’t smile and nod to everything I say and I love that. And that is just the obvious stuff. I have honestly never felt absolutely consumed with love they way I do when I am with him. Does anyone else feel like that? That is the one thing that MAYBE makes me believe in true love but at the same time, if it is true love, why does it hurt so bad?
It is like the lyrics from a Whitney Houston song ‘All the Man that I need’, “I thought love had to hurt to turn out right” Sometimes it feels that way no?
I just don’t know anymore. I have to take it day by day and fucking minute by minute cause just when I think things are going right, something happens and he has to get home or he has to cancel on me and then I am back down at the bottom again, wondering, worrying, stressing. And I think alot of that has to do (for me anyway) is the fact that I have no control over this relationship and can not plan anything with my future. And that is hard for me cause I am a planner and like to look ahead and plan things and with him, I can’t do shit!
Eurygnomes June 12th, 2007, 8:13 pm

Interesting. TW just wrote me an e-mail since my (blogged) version of events with MM do not match with what he’s telling her. He’s lying? Marvellous. *sigh* Part of me says “cut and run, baby!”. The other says, “hang on in there, it’s worth it in the long run!”. Which part to ignore, and which part to look after.

Haven’t written back yet. Advice on opening dialogue with TW? Could be useful to be up front with things PRIOR to he and I running off into the sunset, since there’s a child involved. mwa-fucking-ha!

Anyway - PRIOR to opening the mail, I was going to write something about control.

Yesterday I realised that part of the issue of me not liking my vulnerability (perceived) is that I’m (for once) not in control of the situation. And usually, I end up being the one in control, though adamantly stating that I don’t want to be.

HOWEVER, it would seem (from my visceral reaction to the situation) that I actively do NOT want to be out of control.

SO: my efforts today went into attempting to feel that it’s okay with being ‘out of control’. I know people who go through their life completely that way - and they seem happy. So perhaps this is my universe’s lesson to me: learn how to deal with not having control of everything/one, and let go every now and then. What do you guys think? Do you think that you’re learning any lessons from your various situations? What lessons have you learned - or do you feel that you’re learning (supposed to learn)?.

Of course, NOW, I feel like I’m learning how to keep the cheese and wine I consumed BE (before e-mail) down for long enough to digest…

Good times, good times.
Eury
ChasingBtrflyz June 12th, 2007, 10:02 pm

Eury,

Oh my, oh my! TW is emailing you? Wow. I’m not sure what to say. Other than 3 sides to the goal girl…. his, hers, and the truth (which is somewhere in between.) She may be on a fishing expedition. Looking to attain facts that only an OW would know. What does he say???? Don’t bend your truth to match his. You’ll never get the answers that YOU need. Screw her. You should be in this for yourself at this point. If he had been honest, I’d be giving different advice here. As difficult as it may be…. avoid her if you can. If not, offer only one word answers to her questions. Remember my MM’s wife made up a shit load of stories that made her seem like the victim. She certainly was not! All rules of fair play have gone right out the window. Composure and descretion is the better part of valor here. Get what I’m saying???? Best of luck and please keep us updated!

Hugs,
Chasing
vega June 13th, 2007, 3:35 am

Hello, I am new to this post as you can see. I was hoping one of you kind ladies would have some advice to give; well really what I need to do is get all my feelings out about this situation with someone who knows what it’s like, since I can’t talk to anyone in my life about it really. About a year and a half ago, I got involved with a married man, 9 years my senior; I was a virgin, and had never had this degree of attention paid to me, and it was, frankly, flattering. From the get-go, he made it clear that it would just be a physical thing, and that he didn’t want to get attached, or have me attached to him. I agreed, and over a period of a few months, after coming over to my apartment in the early morning or afternoon, we finally did it. To this day I don’t know how he talked himself into my bedroom…and there I go lying to myself again, it’s because I was being selfish just as much as he was. I had never known a touch such as his, and wanted to feel what it was all like. And, quite bluntly, he wanted some and got a virgin to boot.
Things just got more complicated after that, and he knew I was getting a bit taken with him, even though I was trying my best not to. After a few months of doing this, I graduated college and decided to move across the country for graduate school. We hung out only a couple times over the summer before I left, and kept talking almost every day. I thought that summer would be the end of the physical part, and we would just be friends after that. How naiive. I allowed him to seduce me again, via online messaging during the time that I was away, until Christmas came along and I went home for the holidays. We met then, and spent a few hours together, all the time he could get away from his family. I returned to my town, but again we talked almost every day, and we started making plans for him to come out here to visit me over the summer - and he did, he left me this morning, after spending about 3 days, and after having been alone for so long and craving male company, it was absolute heaven.
I have been crying most of the day since he left, and I honestly don’t really know why - I really don’t think I love him; I think that perhaps I am lonely for a real relationship, one that is solid and true and MINE. I ache for it every day, and these past 3 days just reminded me of how alone I really feel, and how he can never be mine. I think almost every day that I need to end this, but I like talking to him on a daily basis, he was a friend before he was my lover, and I don’t want to lose him as a friend. But I know that he will just do it all over again, and I will end up going to him and letting him have his way with me.
When he was here we had a serious discussion, and he talked about how he does feel guilty, and selfish, and his wife doesn’t deserve this, and that there is something wrong with him, but I am no better. He went on to say in a round about way that we could hang out in the future as just friends, but he has said that before, and the truth is that when he gets the urge to get some tail, he won’t care about all that anymore. Plus it is so hard to not fall back into something with a past lover; at least in my experience, since he’s the only one I’ve had. I know the way he is, I know he started this all up for selfish reasons, thinking with something other than his brain, but I can’t seem to separate myself from him. It’s not like I dote on him, I didn’t even when I lived in the same vicinity as him. I have had one relationship since leaving for grad school, which ended up not working out. And I would love to find someone of my own who loves me, and who I can build a life with; I don’t expect him to leave his wife and family. I want someone good enough for me. I need to distance myself from him, but I just don’t see how I can do it. I have made a big mistake, and made him a big part of my life, when I shouldn’t have. Even now, I can’t wait for him to return home from being here with me so I can talk to him online again; I would have preferred he had stayed with me longer, but just talking to him is the next best thing…it has to be. What a mess I have made for myself. I have wonderful friends, and an active social life, but always I come home at the end of the day, and I think about him. I just can’t help it, and I wonder at the same time if he ever thinks about me to the degree that I think of him. And that’s not healthy either.
I apologize for this being so long; I have not talked to anyone about this since it started 1 ½ years ago. Many thanks for listening.
Cherrie' June 13th, 2007, 12:32 pm

I have been in angry mode and right now it is making me search my heart for what I really want. Doing a lot of research and trying to find something that make sense. Found these simple statements someone posted on their site & thought I would share:

Being in love w/ a married man…
You will sacrifice of your time and energy in unwholesome, unhealthy and unsatisfying ways.
You will give up a measure of your power. He will always maintain control over the course and conduct of your relationship – your only choices are to accept it, or not.
You are not really all that special to him. He is using you to avoid dealing with his own painful reality, and you are simply a convenient vehicle.
Your replacement is just around the corner, and maybe even closer than that.
If he’s doing it to her, he’ll do it to you.
He will never be “with” you.
What she doesn’t know CAN hurt her, and you are a party to it.
What goes around, comes around.
You deserve better than this…
ChasingBtrflyz June 13th, 2007, 1:49 pm

Hi Vega,

My advice to you is this…. you are young and intelligent and have your whole life mapped out ahead of you. It is almost an impossibility for ANY woman to stay emotionally disconnected to a man she is sexually involved with. Especially when you factor in that this man was your first. Trying to go back and undo what’s been done isn’t going to happen. It would be great if it could go back to “just friends” but, it is unlikely. I think you should have absolutely no contact with this man starting now. Yes, it will be difficult… yes, it’s going to hurt like hell… yes, you will no doubt falter at times. Try to look at it as being in a 12 step program, lol. Take it one day at a time and for every day that you are successful… remember that out there somewhere is a man who is Mr. Right, not Mr. When I have Time For You. You deserve to have a whole man and nothing less! You just have to believe in you.

We’re here for moral support. Please keep us updated. Take care and God bless.

Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 13th, 2007, 1:58 pm

Hey Cherrie’,

OK, you’re in angry mode and searching your heart for what you truly want. You are trying to make sense out of the senseless. Welcome to the disenchantment portion of being TOW, lol. I’m pretty sure we all go through this…. I know I have, lol. Ladies????? How about all of you?

Everything you shared in your last post is true. So now what to do? We know in our heads what we should do…. our hearts? That’s a different story altogether, lol. Like my mother always told me…. “When it’s time to go, you will know it in your heart, and you will walk away.” We are only victims of these MM if we allow ourselves to be. See what I’m trying to get at?

Hugs,
Chasing
vega June 13th, 2007, 4:08 pm

Chasing,

Thank you so much for your advice. I am much better today, and feel like I can tackle cutting off contact from him, but at the same time I fear I will crack and go back to the old ways. But with the way things are, and the thoughts that have been running through my head, and with the support I’ve been finding on this site (plus the 12 step program, lol) I think I can manage in the long term to be successful. Let’s see what tomorrow brings…I won’t stop writing, I think this is a good start for me.

Thanks, take care
ChasingBtrflyz June 13th, 2007, 4:29 pm

Hi Vega,

I’m glad you’re in a better place today. Like I said, take it one day at a time. You know, the longer you go without contact, the more opportunities will present themselves to you, (nice, decent, and available men who will see what a great person you are.) It’s hard to notice these men when you’re too busy waiting for the MM.

Keep looking for Mr. Right, (not Mr. Right Now)…. he’s out there, looking for you!

Take care.
Hugs,
Chasing
Cherrie' June 14th, 2007, 1:05 am

Chasing - What your mother said brought a tear to my eye. I think it is time…right now I have the opportunity…
The past few days have been awful and we have done nothing but argue. Today MM said he cannot take my mood swings, and now he doesn’t know if he should leave his wife FOR ME, if we can’t get along. OMG!!! I KNOW THIS IS JUST AN ANOTHER EXCUSE FOR HIM!! I told him maybe we need to take a break and haven’t heard from him since. Lately, he turns the tables on everything I say to make me look like the bad guy. I am one of the happiest people in the world - everyone says they love my sense of humor. But now - even if I would put on a freakin’ clown suit - it would not be funny…he is making me feel like I can’t breath and I don’t want his negative comments to sink in my head. I really think he might be trying to force his way of thinking on me and I am fighting it with everything I have. Does any of this make sense to anybody? The minute he makes me feel like I am losing my marbles, I know it’s time…it’s just SOOOO hard.
ChasingBtrflyz June 14th, 2007, 5:42 am

Hey Cherrie’,

Oh hun, I’m sorry things are not going well right now. LMAO @ your mood swings. Geez, wonder what could be causing that????? Like wake up jackass! lol. I honestly don’t know if it’s just a new excuse or not. I do know the mood swings though. When I met my MM, I was happy, confidant, had hobbies, friends, etc. I was the stable person that everyone came to for help, advice, and a good old fashioned pep talk. Over 4 years, I started to not even recognize myself anymore. I was angry, resentful, negative, and going downhill fast. All of a sudden, I wasn’t fun and nice to be around. Hmm…. wonder why. Could it be that his dysfunction sucked the life out of me? Maybe that I still have to compete with his EX wife? Maybe that I am known in his hometown as the tramp who broke up his family? Even his mother sees me that way. Good God, if they only knew the truth!

I started doing some research and I found out about the lasting effects of being the OW. How it’s so hard to rebuild all the things we lose in this process. The MM can’t see (or don’t want to) how damaged we become during these affairs. As time goes on with little to no understanding, we become so damn resentful and somehow, we are supposed to just “get over it.” I wish someone would explain to me HOW. Hey, I’m the grand winner. He left the wife for me. Yeah, right! Woo-Hoo! Then maybe somebody can tell me why I am still running last place in his life. Why does she get treated with so much more consideration than I do? What? Because she incubated his offspring????? This gives her the excuse for being such a vile, twisted POS??? Oops…. sorry, got a little off track there, lol.

Maybe it’s a good thing, this break that you’re taking. I’m taking one too. Much needed quiet, and time to figure out what it is I really want and what I’m willing to accept in the aftermath of this whole thing. Don’t let him into your head with this scapegoat BS and the negative comments. He has no right to act as if he’s the frigging victim. I often wonder if these MM use the same tactics at home. Turn any female into a raging lunatic to justify their own actions??? Who knows for sure. Take this time and make the best of it. Get your mind straight and know that you’re not crazy. You’re just trying to live within the craziness of his making. Most of what these MM say is word salad anyway. We need the super hero word translator, lmao.

Take care and keep writing. It really does help.

Hugs,
Chasing
ChasingBtrflyz June 14th, 2007, 1:54 pm

Where I’m at today…..

I had a great weekend with some friends on their boat. I did not make myself available to MM. He called a couple of times. I missed the calls. I called a couple of times. He missed the calls. We didn’t speak to each other until Tuesday morning when I answered his call. Plesantries were exchanged, blah, blah, blah. He asked me what I had done all weekend. I told him I spent time with friends on their boat. (We have a festival here, “Harborfest” that runs every year.) Normally, I would downplay my activities. This time I explained how we went into the city for the festival and watched the fireworks from the boat. Drank until we couldn’t drink anymore, blah, blah, blah… I asked how his weekend went. He tells me very little detail. Hmmm…. anyway, he said he wanted to talk to me. I said ok. He asked me if I was still interested in seeing him. (Hello, on a break here!) I told him that I hoped we could mend things but, that it was going to take time and some work. He went on to tell me that he has no interest in his ex, that he loves me, always has, always will but, that he needed to know. I explained what I needed him to do in order for me to feel secure. (Dah, same thing I’ve been saying for years now.) Somehow, he spun it into him having to choose between me and his kids. I said, “no, you have to leave the ex behind once and for all.” He tells me that he doesn’t know if he can, as she is the mother of his children and that they have to speak on occasion. I have never had an issue with them talking…. IF it’s about the kids. BUT, it NEVER is! She just uses the kids as an excuse to try and reel him back in. This is my biggest issue. Besides the fact that she is shown more consideration than me. This is not a stable, caring mother we are talking about. She is the epitome of evil in it’s purest form. The things she has done, and continues to do, leave a cold chill down my spine. Like I need holy water just to deal with her, lol. Seriously though. So, he says he needs to ask me something off topic. (He is the master of changing the subject when I get a little too close for comfort.) I say, “go for it.” He proceeds to ask me if I met someone during the weekend. WTF????? I reply, “exactly what is it you’re asking me here?” He asks, “did you exchange phone numbers and emails with any other men, during your boating weekend?” WTF???? Here we go again…. I have to explain myself and that bitch of an exW of his gets away with frigging murder?????? I was able to reign it in. I told him…. “I think you have me confused with SOMEONE ELSE.” I told him that I don’t operate that way and that I was not going to explain myself any further because he never seems to feel the need to explain HIS life happenings to me. I have to say, I have been made to feel and look like the worthless whore for the past 2.5 years….. by his exW, his children, his parents, etc. I was damn sure not going to allow him to make me feel guilty for going out with friends. I told him that I was damn tired of the double standard being applied to me and that I was hanging up because I didn’t want to say something I would regret. I was very proud of myself. I didn’t hear from him again until this morning. He asked if he could come visit me. I was still pissed so I asked sarcastically, ” what, no flights home this weekend?” Turns out there is some golf tournament and flights are bad going home for him. OMG! So, now, I’m not only some slut but, I’m also his second choice????? Like if he had something better to do, he’d be doing it? I just started laughing and hung up. I’m not going to allow this to affect me. I’m going to finish my classes and head to the beach. He can go screw himself and that diseased pig of an ex. I could care less. He just gave me ALL the answers I ever needed.

Ladies…. be careful. Don’t allow yourselves to become sucked into their sob stories and lies. Limit your involvement whenever and wherever you can. This was 4 yrs of my life and I’m treading water in the same place I was before he divorced her!

Take care and have a blessed day. I know I will, lol.

Hugs,
Chasing
LS June 14th, 2007, 7:38 pm

Chasing:
Your MM is seriously fucked up and sounds somewhat controlling, or wants to be anyway. VERY MANIPULATIVE he is. I know how hard it is to not let the things they do and say affect us and affect our day to when we are trying to be so strong and live our lives like you did this weekend, you had a great time and he ruined that in an instant. Look at how you are feeling now! Talk about shitty. Basically all you can do is tell him you love him and you want to be with him as well but until you see PROOF and RESULTS of the promises he is making, you will continue to go on as you have been and that is that.
No if’s and’s or but’s to it. That is the only way HE will shit or get off the pot and the only way YOU can move on if you need to. Does that make sense? Take a step back like you already did by not answering his calls and what not, that was very smart of you. Continue doing that! Be strong and don’t let him affect you until HE makes moves and proves to you he means what he says and if not HIS LOSS, and you know that. He is the stupid one, not you. Granted we put up with alot of shit from these guys and some of us for many years/months but we still have the power to show them who REALLY has control in these relationships and that is US. We just THINK they do but it is really us who holds all the cards. Realize that and it will help you tremendously. It has for me, it completely changed my outlook on this whole situation with me and my MM.
Jen June 14th, 2007, 10:12 pm

Christ. Cut them off. Change your numbers. These guys are beyond full of shit. If you want a part time guy why not find one without all of the crap & a wife & kids? Those guys will get away with whatever they’re allowed to. It’s so obvious & evident. You deserve more.
Plus, karma sucks.
Go get what you really deserve.
Cherrie' June 15th, 2007, 12:31 am

Chasing…OMG! I see some similar traits in my MM too. It seems your MM is pushing you away - wants you to be the one to break things off because he is too scared to. It’s like he is saying any awful thing to hurt you & trigger a reaction. So proud of the way you responded!

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How To Cope With Being The Other Woman

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