In part one of this series, I explained how we can feel isolated in relationships because we either cater to our own fears or we cater to someone else’s control. I followed up on this in part two by looking at how us needing to have faith in ourselves so that we can trust in the right things instead of the fears is paramount to stopping the isolation.
Ultimately, when we are isolated in our relationships, someone has too much power (and it’s not you), either because they assumed it and grabbed it with both hands or because it was handed over to them.
It is very easy to feel helpless in poor relationships because the sense of inertia built around your fears and the lack of follow through on words with actions means that it will be all too easy to put the power in someone else’s hands to make the relationship different.
In looking for someone else to validate us and to fulfil anything that we lack and give us all that we need, they automatically have too much power anyway because the natural co-dependency that this creates means that with everything being centred around them, it will be near impossible to contemplate an existence without them…even if they’re making you miserable.
We hand over the power because we want someone else to be responsible for our outcome.
As always, when we find ourselves habitually in poor relationships, even though it can appear that we are fighting to save the relationship, by catering to our fears, our beliefs, and the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy that results, we get to be ‘right’ and say that the reason why the relationship is failing is because there is something wrong with the other person, they don’t recognise how good they have it, and they’re resisting being in the ‘right’ relationship.
This takes the focus off us looking closer to home and asking why we are persisting because we’re too busy immersing ourselves in their problems.
By giving them our power we don’t want to hold ourselves accountable or be forced to take action.
But the only way you are going to stop being isolated and start having better relationships is to feel the fear but opt out of the cycle anyway and put yourself in charge of not only your own happiness, but defining who you get to be.
This is not about you snatching control and then dominating him – in fact, this isn’t even about him!
Healthy relationships don’t have one person dominating from a position of emotional control, whether they assumed the control or were handed it.
Yes in being committed to someone, each party has the power to hurt the other, but that is the side effect of risking yourself and your emotions. It doesn’t however mean that someone has to play on that power and do things on a habitual basis that hurt you.
This is all the more reason to choose people who respect, love, care about, and trust you, behaving with integrity and decency, otherwise you’re putting emotional power in the hands of someone that will abuse it.
When I had to lift myself out of the isolation of being involved with the Mr Unavailable who had a girlfriend, I realised that being trapped in my fears about what might or might not happen, no matter what he was doing (moaning about my male and female friendships, work, telling me no-one will love me like he does etc), I was actually allowing myself to internalise what I knew to be wrong and isolating myself.
The difference between me being isolated in that relationship and me making the decision to extricate myself is that I forced myself to park the feelings of fear and focus on letting my thoughts being dictated by the evidence of what I had experienced from the relationship.
The immediate effect is that a great gaping divide was created between his words and the actuality of our relationship.
Even if the annoying, nagging, internal voice of fear tries to jump in, in being evidence focused, it becomes evident that the other person is very, and I mean, very distant from the reality of their words and actions.
I was afraid he’d leave his girlfriend and think that I was no longer interested. The reality was that he hadn’t left his girlfriend when I’d been loyal and doe eyed, I was sick of his behaviour and wasn’t actually interested anymore because he made me incredibly unhappy and uneasy.
I wrote down a list of the pros and cons of staying and my pros were paltry and pathetic and my cons were alarming and lengthy – saying you love someone really isn’t enough.
Yes I was afraid of what he’d say, his reaction, dealing with his calls, emails, texts etc but the reality is that I had to keep my feet firmly in reality and distance myself from his verbal diarrhoea.
And actually, that’s what it amounted to – verbal doo doo. Years later, his situation hasn’t really changed whilst because I wouldn’t allow my fear to be bigger than me, mine has infinitely changed for the better.
The key in the shift in the dynamics in this relationship though is not doing what they expect.
We teach people how to treat us and what to expect and when you’re the isolated party, the dynamic is heavily reliant on you always doing what they have come to expect.
They are used to you reacting to what they say and do with fear that allows the status quo of the relationship to continue. Or they are used to you internalising everything and reacting to it in a way that allows them to have the power in the relationship.
You have to gradually stop doing what they expect.
Whether they expect it because they have dictated it and you’ve obliged, or they expect it because you have behaved and given to the level that they have been taught to believe this is how you behave, it is time for them to learn to expect something different.
We have this misguided idea that if we appeal to someone’s ‘good nature’ and expect common decency that no matter how they’ve behaved, ‘poof’, one day they will just suddenly decide to be all that we profess to want them to be and we’ll live happily ever after in the relationship we’ve imagined that will follow this ‘poof’ moment.
I’d guess again because you’ll be a long time waiting!
If you take twenty calls a week, start taking fifteen, and drop the amount of calls week by week.
Instead of agreeing to meet him or have him come around immediately, say you’re busy, even if you’re sitting at home twiddling your thumbs doing cold turkey.
Let calls go to voicemail. If they’re the type that leave rude voicemails, turn the service off.
If they send emails, ignore them by putting a filter on them that sends them straight to junk mail or to a special folder. Don’t forget that you can, depending on your service provider, block text messages/calls.
Go for the get out plan to gradually extricate yourself out of the relationship or go full throttle with the No Contact Rule and cut the dialogue between you.
If you’re nervous about going out, start meeting up with people for lunch and then build up to going out on evenings.
Start to build bridges with family and friends that you have broken the link with. No it’s not easy but neither is the option of being alone and isolated. It’s a lot harder to leave a relationship when you think that there is no-one you can spend time around.
I’m not suggesting you hang out with people that you don’t like or they don’t like you, but often when we cut off, there’s at least one person out there that’s gutted at our absence from their lives. Put your pride aside with them because you could do with having more pride about yourself and the relationship that you’ve been isolated in.
Tell someone about your relationship. Isolation is heavily reliant on secrecy and or the person feeling that no-one will understand or that they’ll be judged.
Stop denying the reality of your relationship and how you feel. There’s no point in sticking in disbelief or lala land – you have to acknowledge and accept what has been happening, the isolation, your own behaviour and theirs.
The reason why they have the power and you are still there isolating yourself is that you’re trying to make things and him different.
You want to turn the pain into joy. You want to turn the feeling of failure into success. But trying to extract joy out of something that has caused you pain for so long is a tainted experience.
Success isn’t trying to make someone who doesn’t see you or your value suddenly recognise it. The success comes from realising that when someone wants to be with you, they don’t spend their energies resisting you or putting you through emotional hell.
Instead of wondering what you can get them to do that will ‘make’ everything better, ask yourself: what can I do to get out of this situation?
Bearing in mind that what you have been doing has not been working, continuing to do more of the same in the hope that the situation will miraculously change is relationship insanity.
Distance yourself from their behaviour. Look at what you can deal with about you and recognise that they don’t define you and that their version of things is rather distorted.
If his version of you and the reality of you are worlds apart, he doesn’t know you and it is beyond your time and capacity to try to force him to see what’s in front of him.
Get up and start doing the things that you’re afraid of. Start small and build up.
At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. We’re often terrified of what ‘might’ happen if we opt out or challenge the status quo, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. At least you deal with the reality rather than the imagined, which is often disproportionate.
If you keep opting into what they say and the cycle of your relationship with them, then only more of the same can follow, isolating you even further.
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. If you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service.
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@Butterfly,
Hmmm, it does seem to be “raining men” where you are, lol. Your tanned colleague sounds intriguing, as you seem to be more attracted to him than the better looking guy. Are you comfortable having relationships with people you work with?
Oh, and when are you going to the UK? I’d like to request some Curly Wurly’s, Walker’s crisps and a few Galaxy bars. Oh yes, and some orange Clubs too please, lol.
@Aega – I’ll have to look up the info on the Fitzgeralds. I’m interested in how the person that recommended Myra K’s book to you had any idea what may be going on. Angelina also mentioned that people guessed about her EMR, but no one has ever confronted me with any suspicion that I was involved in one. Oh, except one person at work, after I mentioned that I was distracted because of a personal issue, said jokingly “you’re not having an affair, are you? If so, it’s not fair since I don’t have a man”. So I just wonder how people “discover” about these things. I agree – many uncanny similarities between our stories. You said “There has to be a next step and it has to be better.” – YES, I so agree.
@Meant lol some of those made ME nostalgic and I’ve only been away a few months. http://www.cybercandy.co.uk might help you out, though what their postage out to you would be is another story! Yes rain may be falling but that doesn’t mean that it is falling on me (and where I am is ***FULL*** of absolutely meltingly gorgeous men, all high slavic cheekbones, eyes the colour of the skies … lol … I’m happy just looking, that way is all the pleasure and none of the pain!!
@ Karen – I totally agree with you. I believe anger is the first step out of the denial stage and into the realizing stage.
I friend of mine has been divorced for 16 years and her cheating, lying and controlling ex is still having one foot in her life. Mostly through the kids (the 2 girls are now fully grown adult women, so no reason for him to contact her)
He is still disrupting her life and upsetting her.
I told her the only language those Assclowns understand is, STICK A FINGER IN THEIR FACE, TELL THEM TO F**CK OFF and SLAM THE DOOR FIRMLY SHUT BEHIND THEM !!!!!
She is a very nice, sweet and polite woman and doing the above has NOTHING to do with being rude, nasty and not nice in generell.
It is called SELF DEFENCE and when someone is treating you like sh**t or taking the mickey, there is absolutely nothing wrong with telling someone to f**ck off !!
We are nice to people who are nice to us, we are generally nice, polite and helpful people. We are Ladies, we look like Ladies and we behave like Ladies
But you have to toughen up and treat people accordingly.
Again, the only language those guys understand is a firm 4 letter word. They will only hear and understand you if you speak to them in their own language and behaviour.
So toughen up Ladies and don’t let them take you for a ride !!!
@ Meant. Definitely, the quote its a replica of what wome go through but the best part is the ending.
@ Penny I think you’ll love this movie!! get tissues at hand too!! Because you are gonna cry not because its depressing but because it very inspiring! Specially the ending.
@karen I just finished reading your first post on anger! very empowering! I needed to read that today. And you’re totally right on! I just wish this stage goes faster so that i can completely detoxify of the AC!!
I am just waiting for that happy moment when I am completely over!!
Worst thing that this whole episode has created?
All the worry etc means I have not been taking care of my diet re diabetes. I just tested myself for the first time in ages and I am dismayed at how high it is (cos I have been eating things I shouldn’t and thinking “doesn’t matter”. Well, truth is it DOES matter and I have allowed these men to affect my health one time too many.
No more.
meant and agea, ahem, and wow
I am gonna throw this out, I have been living as roomies with my ex partner for the last three years, this was the most confortable scenario for my child, who just left home for school. Few years ago the ex and I were at the therapist whom we’ve gone to for years and I said..it sounds like you really don’t want to work at this relationship with me anymore. And he said, yes that the truth. And that was that ! My therapist was stunned, 30 years and he gave no other explain except a vague there are things he wanted to do with his life.
So therapist gives me a book and the last chapter warns how it is not uncommon to next be involved in a short lived but quicker timeline version of the relationship you were just in…enter the EUM experience. In my case, though, the EUM was too flaky to be romantically involved, but even as friends the EUM, ya know the one who ” understood me” so well, had the same core issue as my ex…does not understand the concept of equals, nor of working to compromise in a relationship. His way or the highway and meant, he sounds a lot like your husband..depressed, does not socialize, enjoy going out, not interested in romance, comfortable with all those things…ah but there was that other connection…
Dunno if the EUM thing was that way for you guys, but find it very odd that we have all had these partner turned roomie scenarios. In my case its pretty practical, the ex is passive agressive and will do nothing, I have been depressed and really stuck in inertia, though I did buy another house that needs work, and almost two years later it is almost ready to move into.
No wonder I have been isolated, and in inertia. What a nutty story as i write it. I am smart, passionate, communicative and loving and worked hard for thirty years with a man, who ultimately did not want to continue to work on us. Then I meet a worse version of him, the EUM, and managed to convince myself he’s gonna change any day now….and finally I have come out of that delusion and starting to move out of isolation and inertia.
I’m thinking we should rent a villa in Italy and spend a week or so painting pictures of headless chicks ; – )) Writing this certainly makes me feel like I have been running round like a chicken with my head cut off, so to speak.
@Aega
I wanted to point something out in your response. Not in any attempt to get you to fully agree with me about the anger stage but more so as an observation and for clarification on what I meant about Anger.
Anger does not have to involve kicking and screaming and yelling and or any type of violence. You mentioned that “anger” is uncomfortable for you because of your upbringing and past experiences with it. Perhaps the type of anger that you were shown was not healthy or you did not see it expressed in a form that was healthy. All emotions are necessary. The sadness and despair that you feel as well as anger in order to move past them. And all of them are a part of the “grieving” process. While i certainly agree with you that shying away from anger (or choosing not to go there) is not indicative in any way a sign of complacency (nor was I trying to imply that) the simple fact that you are so uncomfortable with it would be reason enough for you to explore why this is so (perhaps with a therapist etc…) as anger is equally an important emotion as all the others. If we are not able to express any particular emotion it is an imbalance and does not make it better than not expressing it at all.
I grew up with a family where anger was not such a good emotion to show. In fact, its not outwardly seen as a “good emotion” but thats because so many associate it with Violence and traumatic experiences. I learned however, that growing up I hardly ever got angry. Someone cut me off or hurt me… nope, didnt get angry. I “forgive them” was my motto. Or like Butterfly said: I would turn the other cheek. I would say : “oh its ok” and went about my day. I was never taught what was “appropriate” anger and therefore never learned how to truly defend myself as a person and the power that comes with the ability of saying “No” and of being real with my feelings and with being assertive with others. What is wrong with being angry? If you have been hurt, done wrong, betrayed, lied to, have been abused or simply a hurtful word was said, why is it not ok to listen to the part of you that says: “Im hurt” and acknowledging that and telling the person that hurt you “yeah, dont really feel like talking or being or partaking in your life at this moment because what you did/said did not make me feel so good.” If you instead continue to ignore this feeling which in all honesty— we all feel because we are all human then it gets turned inward. Anger turned inward is called depression and it is in a way an abuse to ourselves. When we are unable to fix things we begin to feel guilty because of our inability to make things right or perfect. We then start to beat ourselves up. It is bad enough when we have been abused by others but now we are abusing ourselves.
You said in your post “And I don’t believe in absolutes, I suppose, so I can’t say with a clear conscience that I was wronged because it took two.” Honey, read what you wrote: It took TWO! Exactly that meant that he played a role in the whole situation and the blame does not just fall on you. It is ok to feel angry at him. Just as it would be ok for him to be angry at you. But we are only responsible for ourselves and i truly dont believe you are doing your “self” good diligence. This is also another way that we remain invested, by continuing to blame ourselves. Read NML’s post on this:
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/dont-indulge-in-the-blame-shame-game/ I’m saying this because I was there for the longest time!!! But realized that not allowing him his part of the blame was just as much an injustice as me taking all of it. Let him be accountable for his role and his actions as well, becauseI can see you certainly dont have a problem in being accountable for yours. Allow yourself to get to that hightened level because what has happened to you is an attack on your soul, your heart… an attack against YOU and you should stand up and let that person know even if its as simple as telling them “I do not wish to speak to you any longer” and be assertive and stand your ground. It is extremely empowering to know you have control over how you choose to deal with the aftermath of a situation. Let them know that what they have done was wrong and unacceptable to you and that it hurt you. That is having healthy boundries and a healthy sense that you value who you are and others should as well. If it helps, pretend that something has been done to your child or your sibling or a good friend would you not defend them? It is so much easier for us fallback girls to be there and give and love everyone else… but the one thing we have trouble doing is in loving, protecting and defending ourselves.
Otherwise Aega, tell me…. if you did not feel that he did something wrong or to hurt you.. .why are you here? I think you do have some anger you just think its not ok to feel it or express it.
Let go of the guilt, pain and stress. Be good to yourself by getting angry at the right person. Then let it go and get on with your life.
NML: I am truly sorry for having veered off topic here with the anger comment. I just wanted to let everyone know how it could be useful. Thank you so much for this forum where we can all share and help eachother! xoxoxoxo
Meant: The two people who “knew” had been in similar shoes, so to speak. Those conversations were very matter of fact; both people were outside of my workplace. Both are friends to me, but my husband does not know either of them.
The threads that are common to almost every story here is certainly fascinating, particularly the folks who stayed in long term marriages. What is that about? We got married, were living with someone we thought we loved and who loved us, sharing a life, and yet were quite lonely. So, it is the emotional connection, apparently, that we are seeking.
This, really, defies logic. I mean, seriously. Many of us were married, and yet lonely. The spouse didn’t really engage with us in the way that we wanted to be engaged. In my case, I accompanied him to his social functions, but he very seldom reciprocated. Eventually, I preferred not to have him around. If we were at his events, I usually ended up sitting by myself and chatting with strangers at the table.
So, I’ve been lonely for a very long time. However, what in the world made me think that getting involved with another married man would ease that loneliness?
And, what makes me think that by staying married that things will get better? And, what is it that makes me stay? I keep saying, to myself, that I don’t want to hurt him, but I’m thinking that while I am not happy in the marriage, I do take comfort in that there is a least someone to check in with and say hello to twice a day.
God, I am isolated. Isolated. Isolated.
Hmmmmm…
@Karen – did you like my video clip about grieving? I had included it for some comic relief
@Butterfly – thanks for the candy link, lol – hope I didn’t get you thinking about sweets now, as I don’t want to contribute to your rising blood sugar!! I hope you are able to get that back under control soon, and I’m glad you are not allowing the EUM world to contribute to your ill health any more.
@aphrogirl – wow is right – the more we open up here, the more we seem to realize that several of us have been living under very similar emotional conditions. I can’t imagine how that felt for your partner to say he was no longer interested in working with you 30 years into the relationship, in what seems like an “out of left field†kind of way. And yes, I felt the connection with my exEUM just at the time that I felt loneliest in my marriage, and things were slowly going downhill. Not that I think it’s a healthy or fair or reasonable way to cope, but that’s how it happened. The EUM’s initial 3 months of “blowing hot†took the feelings of loneliness and isolation away for a time, but then the blowing cold cycles started, and brought me way down off my “highâ€. That’s interesting about the book chapter saying women often have a shorter version of the relationship that just ended. Like you, I am living in the “roomie†situation for my 2 teenage girls, who so want to live together as a family.
You wrote “I am smart, passionate, communicative and loving and worked hard for thirty years with a man…. Then I meet a worse version of him, the EUM, and managed to convince myself he’s gonna change any day now….and finally I have come out of that delusion and starting to move out of isolation and inertia.†And I feel I could have written that myself, except for the length of the relationship. Yes, lets book that villa in Italy anyway – we can discuss our lives over a glass of wine.
@Angelina – “We got married, were living with someone we thought we loved and who loved us, sharing a life, and yet were quite lonely. So, it is the emotional connection, apparently, that we are seeking.†– yes, that’s how I see it. I thought I was getting an emotional connection with my EUM, but he misled me.
“Eventually, I preferred not to have him around†– so, did you separate from your husband, too? We thought that getting involved with another MM would be a safe way to get our emotional needs met, perhaps, as we are subconsciously avoiding the potential for real intimacy. I don’t know either – it doesn’t make much sense when you think about it rationally, does it?
“I am isolated. Isolated. Isolated†– me too, and apparently we are in good company…
Meant:
I just saw it. Couldnt stop laughing! Hysterical! Thanks for sharing!
I did the “roomies” thing with my ex husband for a long time, too, “for the kids” sake, but I have to say that once I finally got the courage to leave and took the time to heal and become my own person again, the relationships with my 2 sons became better than ever…. not that it was ever “bad” but I just felt like a big weight had been lifted off my head and I wasn’t so lonely anymore, so I enjoyed my own two children even more with the new freedom I had found. I think being in a marriage that doesn’t even feel like friendship anymore is worse than being alone, but that was just me…. and it took me a long time to allow myself to leave without carrying a huge bag of guilt with me.
A therapist once told me, living in a marriage with no emotional connection, no intimacy and no sex even when you’ve asked your partner for those things, is not really a marriage, so you shouldn’t feel bad that you have to cut it free and forge a new way. (something like that… it was 10 years ago.) It really helped me to relax and freed me up to find an “escape plan.” I am a Christian, and in this religion, if you get a divorce, you are painfully frowned upon by most people, but even that couldn’t stop me after awhile. Christian or not, I was in a sad, lonely, suffocating marriage, and I didn’t want to die any further.
It might not be the right way to go for everyone, but for me it was a RELIEF to finally allow myself to end it. I knew he never would end it because he didn’t mind living the way we were living.
I’m thankful for this site because even when I’m just writing for no other reason than to get my feelings out, it feels like a safe place. And hopefully, someday someone will come along and think “wow, that is just what I needed to hear today…”
All of your stories are helping me continue moving forward and taking the high road.
@Meant to be Happy
I also like the You Tube video of the giraffe. It was exactly what I needed to see-seeing it made me think of my own issues (not only do I have a broken heart, but I am in a job that I can’t stand, and is doing for me but giving me a paycheck) and forced me to see that if I am going to leave that job I must stop grieving and move on with my life-however much effort it takes. I began working on my resume and answered a job posting last night!!
The posts about anger were also helpful. I was focused on my hurt feelings and not focused on anger-and I was really both hurt and angry that this fool ended our engagement by email!! When I thought about the anger part, it was as if the waters parted-who would want an idiot (and to tell the truth, I had really stopped wanting him-I really have no desire to be with anyone that doesn’t want to be with me) who does not have the courage and fortitude (don’t you like that word) to not terminate a relationship in person. While I was focused on being grateful that I did not marry this fool-I forgot to be angry. Once I acknowledged that I was angry at his cowardly actions-wow!! I could finally see this person is a jackass!! How lucky I am that he called it off (he said his political views were too different from mine-this I knew, but I thought we resolved it) so he could not marry someone who has a “view of the world like mine.” Thank God-I could not marry such a coward. Ironically, the way the mother of his child left him was in a similar fashion-she dropped him off to drive back to her home (they lived in different cites); they were planning to be married, since she was pregnant. For whatever reason, she decided that she could not marry him, and refused to tell him why she did not want to marry him, she just left with no explanation, They ended up having a huge custody battle. (She wanted to marry someone though-eventually she married someone else.) From my perspective, if someone did that to you, and you know how devastating it was, how could you do that to someone else? It took him years to get over this. But in an earlier post someone mentioned that we expect that if we treat people decently, they will do the same to us-that is so often not the case. I expected decent treatment-if he wanted to terminate the relationship, well, that would have hurt, but it was certainly his right to do so. I am an adult-and again, I do not want someone that does not want me. I am clear on that. I expected decent treatment (I do my best to treat people as I would want to be treated) and did not get it. I will know better next time.
I have acknowledged that it has only been a month since my “official engagement termination email” so that is not a lot of time. However, it is all the time I am going to allow myself to continue to walk around in a daze for someone who does not deserve it.
Thanks, ladies for your help with this.
Penny, that’s a perfectly wise attitude you are starting out with. What a sad, telling and pitiful move he pulled, ending an engagement by email, over politics no less. I guess in his world there is no hope for us all to get along, much less treat each other with basic kindness and decency.
Good for you for not succumbing to the zombie state, and I think you should stay with that anger and disgust as long as you need to, for he truly is an arseclown. And I hope this whole thing fuels you into a better job really soon. Just like relationships, work should not be something awful in your life.
@aphrogirl
You are so right-in his mind there is no such thing as hope that we can all get along. From his perspective, those that don’t agree with him are wrong (IMO, no one is all right or all wrong about anything) and that is an indication of what our marriage would have been like. Because I am non-confrontational (unless I am pushed to the absolute limit) I would have ended up living in a house where I was afraid to say anything (not physically afraid of him-he was not physically abusive) out of fear of causing an argument or that he would go into a pouting spell and stop talking. (That is what he did when he first expressed concern about us getting married-just stopped talking and taking my phone calls-then finally sent some ambiguous email saying he had concerns. Adults need to discuss their problems, not retreat from each other.) Who wants to live like that? I do not. I live alone now, so there is no one here to tell me what to do or when to do it. I find that just typing these words helps to reinforce my good fortune that he decided he did not want to marry me. Yes, it still hurts a bit-I was convinced we would have had a good life together. Clearly I was mistaken. Being alone is no picnic, but it clearly course be worse.
Penny, I thank my lucky stars that I am here. Like you say, being alone is no picnic but it’s a zillion times better than living with … urgh, I don’t even want to go back to thinking about him/it/them right now which says I was right to stock up on sanitary products yesterday!
SO these guys have similar MOs and it turns out we have similar MOs and motivations: I am stunned how many of us can say we hung around in a joyless, sexless and pointless relationship for reasons other than WANTING to be with this guy … and then were ripe for the picking. This has really helped me: it’s not me being stupid, it’s a fairly normal thing and the logical step from this is looking at posters who went through their stuff a year ago and came out stronger: so shall we if we make a commitment to OURSELVES.
Besides, being married is bnot the be all and end all – we want to be property, like a cow? That’s what it comes down to!
Sorry should state “here” is the country I moved to. 4am, just woke up, duhhh
@Karen – so glad you liked the giraffe video. I laugh every time!
@lisa – “A therapist once told me, living in a marriage with no emotional connection, no intimacy and no sex even when you’ve asked your partner for those things, is not really a marriage†– so true. Thanks for sharing your experience that ending an unhappy marriage was not the end of the world for you, and in fact, was a relief. I do still love my husband as a friend, and right now our arrangement is tolerable. I don’t think our daughters would react too kindly if we split up completely (even though they know things are not great between us). And lisa, there have been many times when you have written those “just what I needed to hear today†words
@Penny – I’m glad you liked the video, too, and that it seemed to help give a little extra “push†for you to apply for that job. I hope that goes well for you. I think it would be natural to be angry at your ex for ending your engagement in that cowardly way. I think that if you had gone through with the marriage, you may have ended up in a situation that several of us have described here – married to someone who does not communicate with you, and so “together-yet-apartâ€, and, as per the subject of this post, *isolated*. It sounds like you are coming out of your own “anesthesia” now, too, and are ready for some work to make sure your next partnership is a healthy one. Good for you!
@Butterfly – “I am stunned how many of us can say we hung around in a joyless, sexless and pointless relationship for reasons other than WANTING to be with this guy … and then were ripe for the picking.†– I am also stunned by this. I had no idea that my admitting to being in this “semi-marriage†would lead to revelations of several other of the women here having experienced the same thing – in an unsatisfying “permanent†relationship, and then getting involved in *another* ultimately unsatisfying relationship (maybe even worse) while trying to relieve the pain from the first, which had never completely ended. Although, I don’t feel like property, and certainly not like a cow, lol. I think I feel more like a confused, confined giraffe, lol -may be partly my height, tho
Hmmm, just realized – I hardly thought about my exMM/AC at all today (well, maybe 20 times instead of 200). yayyyyyy!
@Meant to Be Happy
You are right, if I had married him, I would have been isolated. I was moving to his state (about 2000 miles from where I live-I live in the US) where the only person I would have been close to would have been him. He travels for a living, and would have been gone half the month. So, it is possible that the other half of the month he was at home, he would not have been talking to me. How awful that would have been!!
@Butterfly
I didn’t think I was in a pointless relationship. I thought I was starting a new part of my life with someone that wanted to start a new part of his life with me. But I wonder-how ripe for the picking was I-in an attempt to want to build a life together with someone? Still does not excuse his behavior, though. (There’s that anger again!)
I single mindedly focused my efforts on the relationship with the EUM, almost to the point of lunacy. But, just realized, I really never processed the reasons for demise of my prior 30 year relationship, which had a lot of good points. The ex ( not the EUM), aka the SO, was smart, communicative, sex and romance was great, lots of friends and good times spent together. He’s not a bad guy at all. Maybe even a typical American male ( sorry if I am insulting any advanced typical american male readers)
But the problem I had all along was that I felt like a beautiful, faithful, well loved and cared for golden retriever, taught to heel, expected to walk one step behind. It was subtle. I was always living his life his plans, or lack of plans, fighting to be heard, fighting to be equals, fighting for us to work together. Plus, he was often “teaching me”. Both of us were always employed so it was none of that man works/ woman stays home, ever. I guess someone can have a lot of good points and its still not OK for me unless they are willing to grow and work with me.
The older I got the more glaring the inequity, and I sure did not want the student teacher relationship that was ok we were younger.. and as I got older I got more vocal that we needed to work harder on our relationship as we were naturally changing. He chose to not work and opted out. Easier to not do it. Gives him more time to pursue some new hobbies. I also think that relationships with women are not so important to some older men. Sad, but, like Penny said, I don’t want to be somewhere where I am not wanted so I just figured I was OK. Wrong, and I now believe I got so involved with the EUM to avoid this difficult change.
And Heres where it got goofy…so next I take up with the EUM, who not only has no communication skills, but also has not much of anything else to offer. And is a bit needy too. And the equality part was off also because I saw him as less able than me. Because the EUM and me had some strong emotional ties I went into lala land and invented a more capable version of him and then waited for that invention to become reality. OOOOPS.
How can I have done such a thing ? By living in fantasy world. The EUM fed the fantasy by his crazy indecisiveness. The fantasy was also fed because the reality, all that crazymaking EUM drama reality, is so awful. The only way to stay in that awful state of confusion is to create a stable fantasy that he will be getting it together, coming around any day now
But , fantasy world and lala land is isolation from reality and from sanity, such an unhealthy drain on me , and it really took its toll. It got so bad I knew I had to do something. I am grateful for finding this site, and NC and exploring all this from the angle of why did I choose to get involved in something like this.
YMMV but we all do have some similarities in our stories. Sometimes I think its random..you trust someone, cause what else is there, and they may turn on you – you may not have ever been able to see it coming, it just happens.Other times.. well, those red flags were there all along but I chose to ignore them.
“@Karen
“If you did not feel that he did something wrong or to hurt you.. .why are you here? I think you do have some anger you just think it’s not ok to feel it or express it.â€
I’m with you that anger can be both cathartic and motivating. When it comes, I don’t try to repress it. It’s just that my anger has a very high flashpoint and a low half-life. I can’t say that I have ever really stayed mad past the initial heat of the moment. Mostly, when something or someone hurts me, my reaction is to try and figure out why I had allowed myself to get hurt. I think that emotional pain will only wreak havoc in my life if I let it in, so a painful experience leaves me searching for the “holes in the armor†to plug up. I have taken advantage of getting angry in the past to push myself toward necessary decisions that I had been putting off, but beyond that it’s not constructive for me.
All I’m saying is that there are folks who in the aftermath of a break-up spend their time asking questions of themselves and others in an effort to gain an understanding. That’s not synonymous with blaming themselves for the hurt or being afraid to face a negative emotion, it’s just this is what comes to them naturally.
@Meant, Angelina, aphrogirl, lisa and anyone else whose SO turned into a roommate…
“So I just wonder how people “discover†about these things. “ Well, I suspect people in my office knew. At first, for almost 3 years before anything actually happened it had to do with us being such close friends. Later I think it’s because he got careless. I was a transplant and a workaholic and I lived outside of the city so running into anyone I knew was nearly impossible, but he is from here. Someone must have seen us – not getting physical and such, just doing things together. One person did ask me out right and I laughed it off pretty convincingly, I think. I did ask her what made her think so and she said that when he and I were in the same room it was “just thereâ€. I treated her to a mini-lecture on the nature of man/woman friendship and intellectual closeness and she never brought it up again.
I’m calling dibs on the room with the best view in that Italian villa (need good light to turn out some quality headless chicks, you know…) After this vacation I’m really going to need one. Ever flip coins on the future of your marriage on your 10th anniversary? Ahhh, the joys of marital separation in the same house.
Back to being miserable. To think it’s the first time in 6 months we’re in the same place (geographically) and I have my phone turned off and MSN erased. Today I had to visit a good 5 places we used to frequent together. Should have never gotten out of bed this morning.
@Aega I return to my listening to Velvet Revolver knowing full well he loved them. Never had that music in common with him, didn’t matter. Now, I like it for it’s own merits (did anyway) but that alone, the songs don’t make me think “did he like this?” as is inevitable of any human being in this situation – now, I think of the sunlight on the leaves, and of wishing I didn’t have so much water retention LOL.
It all gets easier.
@Penny – hon, I wasn’t clear. When I said pointless relationships I meant the ones we have had where we are just there for … what reason? Mine was cos I was scared what would happen to him. What happened to him was he had “met someone” within three days – I really don’t believe for one moment that this is true, I am sure that he was having an illicit affair for quite a long time with this woman whom he has now moved in with.
What I never said was that my ex but one was all for open relationships and there were various things that I disliked but accepted – I don’t want to go into details today, I am in a great mood, but I did actually let him know what was happening with my mirage. There were many things behind my back with the ex but one, looking back. Not least we had one split where he miraculously “met someone” the day after we split.
Why am I sharing this? Well, as often happens here to me (and to others from what they write) the truth has just been illuminated right at me. How do I feel about that? Mainly that it was a pointless relationship *I* didn’t have both feet in cos he had always been like this, and again in common with others I also went without sex because of problems on his side (which he says he has with the new woman and I do believe that is the case: he definitely WANTED to have sex with me he just couldn’t get it up – even on his own, most of the time).
I do know he is willing to have treatment for it, which he refused to do for me and he has apologised for his “stupidity” making my life harder than it should have been (in various, nay MYRIAD, ways). You know what though?
It’s just some shit that happened. That’s all. Just some shit that happened.
AND all this is about the same guy, the one with the relationship which had been dead for years, not my mirage. I am as clear as mud today, got too much to do and I’m proscrastinating!!!
@Penny – “How awful that would have been!!†– no kidding! It sounds like a blessing in disguise that he called it off, although you’re right, he could have been decent about the way he did it.
@aphrogirl – I wouldn’t have liked to feel like the “student†in my long-term marriage either. I agree with the need for equality. Perhaps your EUM was an opportunity to feel more equal – that does makes sense. In my marriage, we have supposedly been equals, but he has always controlled me through passive-aggressive behaviour. Similar to your situation, the MM I became involved with cannot hold a candle to my husband. He is not attractive, shy (but can be charming) and seems to need help “finding his way†sometimes. I think I got involved with him because I felt sorry for him, and wanted to “rescue†him – possibly wanted him to be grateful for my “love†and attention. After the first time we slept together, I told him that was the first time since I’d been married that I’d slept with another man. I fully expected to be his “first†two, and I was very surprised when he told me he’d been with other women (he claimed a couple of “one night standsâ€). I really didn’t think he had cheated before, because he’s so shy and unsure of himself. How naive was I???
I woke up this morning realizing that my exMM/AC is also passive-aggressive, and maybe to a greater degree than my husband! He always claims the reason for not following through on things he says he’ll do on his poor memory, but I think it’s a lie, and that he doesn’t follow through as a means of control/punishment. He still hasn’t sent me that file I need for work, and I think he’s ‘punishing†me. How childish!! Aphrogirl, I am also guilty of missing red flags – a whole sea of red flags flapping wildly in the wind.
@Aega – “Ahhh, the joys of marital separation in the same house.†– isn’t it grand? BTW, I think you’re being very strong avoiding contact with your ex, even though you are in the same town. Kudos to you!! You had to visit places that reminded you of him, but now you can make new memories in those places that have nothing to do with him – one of Butterfly’s strategies. As an aside, I have even had to do that with the noise my laptop makes when it turns on. I bought the laptop so I could chat online with my exMM in more places, and the sound of it turning on reminds me of the anticipation I felt as I looked to see if he was online, or had sent an email. How pathetic is that? I now try to “sing†words to that little melody it makes,that have nothing to do with him. Oh my, this getting over the ex is a complicated process!!!
Karen and Alice, I am with you on this one…Anger really helps me to cope, whatever, I start missing my EUM, I remind myself what he done and how upset I was…and my “missing” disappear in seconds! Thanks God, I have this site and you, girls!!!
@Meant and Butterfly – I hate not knowing things (drives me insane). I’m reloading iTunes and want to listen to these Velvet Revolver folks and Daughtry. Now, what songs am I looking for?
So I have to confess something. I’ve been getting along with my husband really well for almost a week now. I mean we never really fought in the first place – I almost always stuff things inside and go running, because I can’t begin to explain the willies I get as soon as someone raises their voice. But for the past two years we had been getting on each other’s nerves. He is a clean freak that given free reign would have our house looking like an antiseptic futuristic bank lobby. I, on the other hand, as much as I love bleach and such, want to have a home, not a house: I open windows (horror – dust!!), I leave fruit in a bowl on the breakfast bar (inviting insects!!), I let my dog sleep in the bedroom because I don’t mind the vacuuming, and bathing and brushing that goes with it (canine bacteria will be the undoing of the western civilization!!), and – worst of all – I don’t consider books on the coffee table as the final nod to entropy that will sink the world into chaos.
I could deal with most of these things except the dog thing. I love dogs in general and ours in particular. He however is obsessed with the rules she has to follow. I mean, seriously – she’s not allowed to follow me around the house because that’s too clingy. She can’t look out the window because she might mark the glass with her nose. She’s not allowed on the slate or the wood floors because she might scratch them. She can’t lie down next to me because she might touch the side of the couch. I shouldn’t take her running with me every single time because that reinforces codependent behavior (do you see now why I don’t have kids?).
There is also a laundry list of things wrong with me: I don’t eat enough and drink too much coffee, I forget where I put my keys and lose my sunglasses, I have insomnia, I read too much, I rinse paint brushes in the sink, I flush cotton balls with eyeliner on them in the toilet, and I forget to turn off the light above the front door *before* I open it so that moths won’t fly in.
Small stuff? Yup. I had my list, too, but I took the concept of marital compromise seriously, plus I’m really pretty happy-go-lucky about things like this. People are different – big deal. The issues I had a tougher time letting go were a little different. There was the ne’er-do-well brother moving in with us right after we got married – a fact I just came home to one day. I was working full-time and finishing my own degree while helping my SO with his grad school –I didn’t realize for about a year and a half that he had been lying about his brother contributing to the utilities; found out by accident. Beyond the fact that he saw nothing wrong with me getting 5 hours of sleep a night to make time for everything while his brother turned down offers of full-time employment because he was “thinking of moving to Parisâ€, what hurt was then when I got upset when I found this out he laughed and said that I was overreacting. At the time, honesty was everything to me and it was the lying that had hurt me. He made a point of saying several times that this just proved he had been right not to tell me the truth in the first place and that given the same set of circumstances he would not hesitate to do it again.
My husband is always right. He is smarter and better than everyone else and makes no mistakes. Yes, I helped him with grad school but I am only *book smart* and can’t function without him in the real world (I do, btw, earn significantly more, but that’s because of luck. I suppose that’s what 80 hours a week amounts to.)
He apologizes by always qualifying his “sorry†that he’s saying it to placate me, because I shouldn’t mind in the first place. The dog thing – I should just get over it because it’s childish. We Americans are so silly about animals. Not to mention that our value and educational systems are flawed and our sense of humor is naïve (my husband is from Southern Europe and clearly sophistication stops north of the Pyrenees).
Having veered completely off track I guess I should come back to how all this plays into the complete state of confusion I’m in now. Somewhere along the road, all these things had outweighed the good stuff. Mind you, there had been lots of good stuff. My SO is a kind, considerate man of moral integrity, with a selflessness and work ethic to rival Mother Theresa’s. He’s one of those people that walks into a room and everyone flocks to him almost instinctively. He has confidence, but no ego, so he never feels like he has anything to prove, doesn’t get jealous or insecure. What you see is what you get. I’ve never seen him uneasy or uncomfortable and yes, he is very good-looking in a masculine sort of way.
Enter my midlife crisis. By now, I’ve adopted the sofa and I camp almost exclusively in my studio, the door to which is the Maginot line from the dog-hair-free perfection of the house. My forays into the kitchen are limited to the water dispenser and ice maker. I haven’t gone to a social function with my husband in months (not really up to playing my part of the Golden Couple Burlesque). I’m spending way too much on my hair and clothes but spend weekends in a sweatshirt to avoid the impression that I’m inviting any kind of physical contact. I get through the occasional Friday night outing with wine and a valium. I feel so alone but somehow can’t conceive of leaving my marriage and dispelling our friends, neighbors, and family members’ mirage of the perfect life the two of us have,
Enter the MM. Now take everything I said about my SO and flip it around and there’s your description of him. He’s shorter than my husband, with the beginnings of a beer belly, as insecure and happy alone as my husband is opinionated and a social genius. And once we venture into the physical we can’t keep our hands off of each other. I’ve said all this before – “separated at birth†to a degree that colleagues comment on it even though we’re outwardly quite different. At some point into our bliss he asks me to spend the rest of my life with him, but I’m dealing with my own fears and scars and I leave skid marks when he does. A couple more instances of the same conversation, limbo stays alive and well, and our on and off again relationship devolves to a large degree to a series of booty calls.
A week before I get on the plane to move to the other side of the country he tells me that this is the day he tells his wife that the marriage is over. My heart almost jumps out of my chest. But that something inside me that doesn’t know how to be happy launches a “best friend’s divorce interventionâ€; I spend the subsequent hours telling him why he shouldn’t. I have a battery of excellent cons, and the one pro that I am as in love with him as I had been for the preceding 2 years never gets verbalized.
So here I am now, having responded to his contact attempts with exactly two sentences in the last 5 weeks or so. NC is working most days. I have stopped torturing myself with old emails and pictures and recognize that I’m calmer and eating better than I had been in more than 2 years now. My SO and I are making plans for our 10th anniversary tomorrow and enjoying an easy companionship. He’s abstained from making lists, schedules, and rebukes regarding moths or wrinkles and is offering to build me a studio on our property down the hill from the house where I can freely exercise my eclectic style without spoiling the perfection of our home. I’m thinking how good my life is here and how much work both of us have put into it. How loved and cared for I am here. Then I think of how I will go back to waking up in the morning and seeing my dog through the glass of the French doors that keep her out of the bedroom and how after the first few attempts at dialogue and compromise I will accept the futility of that argument. Each time I want something outside the pale of what I should want I will be talked out of it gently but skillfully, time and time again, until the heavy blanket of inertia falls and I stop wanting anything. And I don’t expect that I will keep crying on the occasions when *it* can’t be avoided because one can deaden anything inside oneself as time goes on. In the meantime there is the dark and the pillows and the noise from the air conditioner to muffle tears.
Eve of my friend’s wedding drawing up (I fly to the UK tomorrow) and I am thinking this. If I was still with him, he was meant to be coming to that wedding (HA!! like he’d ever dare leave America!!!). If I was still with him I’d be having a crappy trip.
If I was still with my ex but one he’d be a misery whilst being nice to their faces and vitriolic behind their backs, leaving me to put the face on and deal with it.
I’m looking forward to this wedding, seeing my friends happy, and happy myself because I am there on my own terms.
@Aega – well yanno maybe there’s something there to work with huh? Hugs and hopes for whatever happens to happen easy.
know what agea, the first paragraph of your last post reminded me of a great book I read about ten years ago called Journey of the Heart, about how disagreements and difficulties in relationships can be an opportunity for growth in confronting one’s deepest core issues. Bit of a zen-like bit vague read, but the premise is great.
The only way mature love works though is if both parties want to get to the bottom of the trouble and take a fearless look at understanding and compromising. In my life the guy never really wants to do this, prefers to get his way and wonders what my problem is, why can’t I just relax, why do I complain? ( meaning when I don’t want to do it his way )
Meanwhile… I am usually thinking more along the lines of….OK this is interesting, how can we work on this together on this little ( or big !) disagreement so we both are OK with it.
Hey, bottom line everybody is that love is a helluva lotta work, and if one or both of the parties is lazy, or unbending, it is love that suffers and love becomes more a source of pain.
Today I was walking home from work and I often feel so alone and awful thinking of my weird stage of life. But I gotta tell you. today I realized I was in the same place as more than few of you here, and then I thought back to all the moms and grammas I knew who put up with really bad marriages, and could not get out for financial reasons, and suddenly I did not feel so alone. And that felt better than it has in a long time.
@Butterfly
Very often, someone else’s happiness is contagious. Good that you are happy for your friends-some folks can’t be happy for other people. Enjoy the wedding!!
@aphrogirl
I like your point about the older generation ladies being in bad marriages (my mom was in one prior to marrying my dad-she always said she might die and end up in hell, but she damn well was not going to live in hell.) and you are right about how many of them must have suffered. Everyone that has been in a bad marriage always says to do whatever you can do to avoid being in that situation. While intellectually I get the point, and understand it, I think I know just what you mean about feeling so alone-I too am in a weird stage in my life. My perspective with my guy was just like yours-let’s work on this together, and work towards a compromise where we can both agree we will be okay about the outcome. It seems only women are interested in handling problems like this; to me that is the logical way to solve issues with someone you care about.
@Aega – Aega, you’ve probably answered this somewhere else in your writings already but…
…have you ever thought of having a time by yourself, or rather, just you and your lovely dog living together somewhere the windows don’t matter so much; where you can come and go without MM dragging on you or Hubby drawing up his next list; where you can wash your paint brushes where and how you like, along with your cotton wool balls?
You sound like you earn enough money to rent somewhere for a time, to allow you to get your head together and know better who YOU are, how YOU work, what YOU want out of life.
Sometimes the isolation of being with people who aren’t good for us is far worse than the “isolation” of living alone how we choose and doing pretty much what we want when we like.
I’ve said before in my posts that I actually now don’t think I ever want anyone else in my life. I have my daughter, my family, my friends, our dog and cat, my writing, my little website, my plots and plans for the future.
All in all, once I’ve rid myself of the anger and insult The EU has left me which – which can only come with time wearing it down – life is much, much happier (and I barely make ends meet financially!).
But “being alone” like this beats answering to some goat-head who may/may not be good for me.
Couldn’t you think about taking time-out and going to live somewhere by yourself (with your beloved dog, of course) for three or so months, just until the fog clears and the unseen pressures lift?
love, Leonine
Leonine, and Aega, I like what Leonine wrote. I hear that! Nice post, and an honestly good suggestion. I live now with my 2 sons, and my 3 dogs, and I just barely make ends meet financially, but I’m much more relaxed and happy without feeling like I’m not measuring up all the time to what he wanted me to be (which is how it felt when married). He can’t even afford child support right now, and it was never a lot of money, but it used to be consistent, and I think it bugs him a little that I’m still able to stay afloat…. something he never thought I could do. And he really is a “good” guy, just not with me, you know? He’s really zealously religious, he’s nice to the kids when he sees them, a hard worker, but he just doesn’t like me for me, he wants me to fit his mold of what he wishes I was, and he has no sexual appetite at all and doesn’t seem to think there is anything wrong with that.
I mean, I’m all for working on a marriage, but if the same things keep happening over and over, and years of life go by, and then you start an extra marital relationship, like some have done, that doesn’t really take away the problem, and then sometimes a few more years of life go by, and you still have to deal with the issues.
Aega, obviously we don’t know you personally, but you seem really bright and smart, and I can totally picture you getting yourself a place where you can hang with your dog in any way you like and just get healthy and enjoy some “me” time without the baggage that is all around.
I wish you the best. Sounds like your husband is pretty dynamic. How is it that they can be that way when everyone is around, but when it is just us and them, things aren’t the same?
@Aega – you don’t like not knowing things? Me neither, especially not knowing how my partner feels about me!!! (my EUM husband, *and* my exAC/MM). You asked about the Daughtry songs. The titles of the ones that help me get over my exAC MM are “Over You†and “No Surpriseâ€. I also listen to “Not Meant to Be†by Theory of a Deadman (the inspiration for my original screen-name on here – notmeanttobe) and “Better in Time†by Leona Lewis. NML also has a post about songs that are EUM-inspired from July 2008, if you want to check that out, too
And speaking of screen names, yours is from a goddess, I believe, but I don’t know how to pronounce it, which drives me nuts!!! Is the “g†hard or soft?
It’s great to hear you’ve been getting along with your husband! That should help you not to think about the EUM, and to feel cared for. My husband is a clean freak, too, while I live in more of a “creatively organized†way. You mentioned your hubby, “given free reign would have our house looking like an antiseptic futuristic bank lobby†– lol, maybe our husbands should live together – they could live in harmony!!! I think I’m in kind of a midlife crisis, too – really trying to evaluate where I want to go from here and what will make me happy in my later years. OMG your MM sounds like mine, too –
“He’s shorter than my husband†– check, “beer belly†– check, “insecure and happy alone†– check (a real introvert), “once we venture into the physical we can’t keep our hands off of each other†– double check!!!!! Mine wants to have a “lifelong relationship†with me, but does not plan to leave his wife anytime soon. I asked him if that would change if I “got off the pot†and got a divorce, and he just said – “well, then we’d re-evaluateâ€. Not really giving me confidence in his intentions, if you know what I mean! So we slipped into limbo as well, and I started feeling like a booty call, too, which is a horrendous way to feel. I felt weird going from feeling like an asexual being in the way my husband treated me, to a sex object (he actually suggested I was a sex goddess) with my exAC MM.
NC is going OK for me, too. Although, like you, I went past a place we had been to together today. It was actually a motel, and at first I longingly remembered what we did in there, but then I felt cheap because I had met my exlover in a cheap motel. Not anything I would *ever* expected myself to do!
You wrote “And I don’t expect that I will keep crying on the occasions when *it* can’t be avoided†– sorry, not sure what you’re referring to here – sex?
I hope you have a great day tomorrow, and continue that “easy companionship†you mentioned.
@Butterfly – I hope you have a great day tomorrow, too, as you fly to the UK for your friend’s wedding *without* any of your exEUM baggage in tow. Have a wonderful time at the wedding.
@aphrogirl – yes, a very weird stage of life indeed. I could walk away from my marriage and be OK financially, so yes, that is a good feeling. But then, I don’t know, maybe I should stay. I’m sooo confused!
@Leonine – “Sometimes the isolation of being with people who aren’t good for us is far worse than the “isolation†of living alone how we choose and doing pretty much what we want when we like.†– Amen – that’s why I’m so confused! If I didn’t have children, the decision would have been made long ago…
@lisa – I hear you, too, re: not measuring up. When our children were very young (and I was on mat leave), he would come home from work, ask me what I’d been doing all day (taking care of two young children), and then ask why the house was such a mess!! He didn’t want any evidence of toys or “kid-stuff†anywhere. It was hard to live like that. You were strong to walk away when you did. My kids know my husband leans towards depression, and I think they would think I was the “Wicked Witch†if I left him completely, since they would think I was being “mean†to the poor thing. Ugghhh!!! And yes, he is very dynamic at work, but a completely different person when he gets home. So everyone else would probably wonder why the heck I would ever leave him, too. I feel isolated *and* trapped.
Meant, kids do bring a whole new angle into the equation. I went through counseling for years trying to make it work with the ex; he rarely changed to try to meet my needs and I often bent to meet his. Yet I stayed because I figure there is no such thing as perfection and it was OK in many ways. And because of the kid. One big difference…He was not depressed, I was not depressed. More just a bad feeling like I was not a true partner. When my daughter reached late teens she could see the whole picture.
Meant, I think your biggest challenge is to not let his depression rub off on you or your kids. And that is no mean feat. I would say it is an almost consuming job, that will leave you time for little else but taking care of you and your kids. I felt this way awhile back and started to see that life is tough sometimes, and that can be OK as long as it does not make you depressed.
I think we have all learned that chasing the EUM pipedream, seeking refuge and happiness in that dream of another, is just another link in the chain of depression and dissatisfaction.
I would advise you to do everything you can for you to avoid sinking into the depression that comes from living with the depressed, and look to him for nothing at this point in time. Work, exercise, eat all the healthy foods you should be eating, meditate if you can fit it in, keep yourself super fit physically and mentally, and I am sure peace and clarity and the ability to make a decision will come. But pay attention to your mental health. If your feel like quicksand pits are appearing in your jungle you need to get help from outside your household asap.
Between doing those things for you, working, and caring for kids you have more than a full time occupation on your hands. Ahh, but women truly are so strong and we are such hard workers. That I have seen in the older women before me..we always clean up, pick up the slack and do what needs to be done.
Even though I get in mopey moods I really do feel more like Leonine these days…right now there is no room for a man… my daughter is off to school, I am getting by financially OK, not great but OK, and I am learning to be OK with the thought of being alone.
@aphrogirl
So, when your daughter left for school, did you break up with your SO at that point?
You are right, kids do bring a whole other aspect to the “dysfunctional relationship” scenario. Yes, the girls need to be cared for in such a way that they are less likely to become depressed themselves. As far as I’m concerned, I lean more towards anxiety than depression, so I think I’ll be OK. And yes, I have been trying to take good care of myself too – a healthy diet, lots of exercise, massage, socializing with friends. And I’m working on my mental health maintenance by starting counselling (first appt was this week). Also, I have already become self-sufficient enough that I don’t ask him for much anyway. Two years ago, he went away on business for 4 months, and not only was it a relief not to have to walk on eggshells and put up with grumpiness, but I got to the point that I could run the household myself (driving the girls to their activities, paying the bills, doing groceries, cooking, etc, etc). It was actually quite nice!
Thanks for the good advice. You’re right – we women are able to keep so many balls in the air, thank goodness!!! Good for you that you’ve come to the point that you’re OK with being alone for now. That must be an empowering feeling!
Oh, and you mentioned quicksand – did you watch the quicksand video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEZJei6DD0o
Yup the quicksand vid was great, Sounds like you’ll be fine, Many people stay for kids if its not abusive, seems often to be kinder for the kids. As long as they see you staying healthy in an unhealthy situation they learn something significant. The ex and I switched gears and became roomies a few years before my daughter left. I told her if we lived in California there would be nothing weird about having parents who became roomies… and she bought it : – )
For me depression was the reaction to my anxiety about feeling the work was all on my shoulders. The ex is fine with things as they are…till he decides they are not, and I needed more control over my life.
Then the EUM was avoidance of the really hard change I needed to make to get out of the house.The EUM’ was also a distraction to the bigger picture, to seeing the problems and the issues in the long term relationship, and a lure of something seemingly better.
So you got away from the EUM, and here you are now kinda back to the other EUM scenario with your husband. Well, know that living with an older, depressed EUM is not uncommon, know that some EUM’s will work on it, and some won’t. Those that will not work on it often end up alone or with wives who are there, but very much alone in the marriage.
You’ll know what to do and when to do it, I am sure of that.
Funny also, this site just confirms how supportive and understanding and available many women are by nature. I am grateful, as always, to all of you who share here.
“I wish you the best. Sounds like your husband is pretty dynamic. How is it that they can be that way when everyone is around, but when it is just us and them, things aren’t the same?”
Because you’re already conquered so therefore worthless …
Sorry to sound cynical, but that’s the Narc lesson. EUM I’m not so sure, though my first major boyfriend also was EUM he devalued too and … yeah I need to dig deep for that answer. I think he was just immature maybe but actually …
I am sort of with Leonine. I worry about stability financially, and I can’t have kids (well couldn’t = this medication could well make me fertile and now it’s too late). I couldn’t have done THIS unless I was alone. THIS is wonderful no matter how it gets hard sometimes and how I miss a pair of arms around me.
@Butterfly
“Hugs and hopes for whatever happens to happen easy.†Thank you. I couldn’t have kids either, at least not without a turkey baster and we never went that far. I would have been just as happy to adopt, but my husband always wanted to wait one more year, then one more, etc. Now – who knows, right? It ain’t over till it’s over.
@aphrogirl
I’m with you on being alone trumping an unhappy relationship. I’m still trying to figure out what constitutes really unhappy, sometimes I think I may just expect too much. That’s really what’s keeping me in limbo. The being alone was never an issue, and it’s actually ironic to me that as much as I like my independence I seem to always end relationships only to fall into brand new ones.
@Leonine
My current “drama†is hitting a high note because I came home for 10 days. I did move away beginning of this year when I took a job on the other side of the country, got a cool place complete with brushes in the sink and a wet nose on the windows. I had been hoping for the “fog to clear and the unseen pressures to liftâ€, but I think instead I slipped into depression, which made any decision making an overwhelming task. Coming home was great because all I’ve done this year is work, and between my stress level peaking and my schedule and the urban setting I’m now in keeping me away from my cure-all medicine, trail running, it’s been a tough ride. I have taken on a huge responsibility with this job, and combined with now being responsible for myself (and The Dog…) after 10 years of being “hot-housed†by my husband, well – I’m not coping too well to tell the truth. Each day is a new day, though, and I know that if I keep at it I will get out of the funk. It is a test of willpower and determination and it will get better.
@lisa
“He just doesn’t like me for me, he wants me to fit his mold of what he wishes I wasâ€. AMEN. Seriously, isn’t it supposed to be legendary that men marry the girl of their dreams hoping that she never changes, whereas women marry a boy hoping to mold him into the men of their dreams? Did we jump on the wrong wagon or something? I’m not much different than I was 10 years ago and I hear that’s usually a plus. My husband, however, has actually told me on several occasions that he’s disappointed at having been unable to break me of some of the habits/interests he disapproves of. And that I never became more domestic (learn to cook). I work all the time! I put him through grad school! I also clean and shovel snow and help him with his dad.
This is good, I need to get indignant like this more often. You said that otherwise “a few more years of life go by, and you still have to deal with the issuesâ€. This isn’t something one can wait out, is it?
@Meant
It turns out I do know “No Surpriseâ€, I had just never looked up whose it was and downloaded it. I do love this song, and I’m going to look up the other ones. I’ll look up some tracks I’ve been listening to on Pandora that I think you may like, too.
I did the trip down the “motel memory lane†today, too, not on purpose, but there it was. Like you, I get that cheap feeling when I pass these places, which isn’t bad because it makes it easier. The harder ones to deal with are the memories of trips to antique stores and junkyards and hole-in-the-wall cafes where no one even spoke English. Those bring back laughing till my sides hurt and hours of conversations about everything.
Yes it was sex I was referring to. Note to self: if I ever get married/committed to someone again, I won’t assume that if the physical relationship with that person isn’t something I crave at the beginning it will all fall into place later. Doesn’t happen.
Aega is a mythological figure, you are correct, albeit a very minor one. I’ve always taken an interest in this particular character because her story is different in each account of Greek historians, and her name means both “goat†and “gust of windâ€. It was the duality and ambiguity of her place in the Greek mythology (as well as a host of other meanings that carry symbolism for me) that resonates with me. One hopes that after a few more weeks of waffling I will start to identify with someone a little more steady, say – the rock of Gibraltar?
I think we need to set up our SO’s on a blind date with each other. It sounds like a match made in heaven… Granted, mine is not familiar with the concept of depression, but he could teach yours a thing or two about OCD…
All of you ladies – thank you so much for all your kind words. Sorry about waxing so gloomy, I’m trying to make sense of things in my head and the frustration just spills over.
@aphrogirl – you said “For me depression was the reaction to my anxiety about feeling the work was all on my shoulders.†Understandable, and sorry you had to go through depression. Has it resolved now? I had never really thought of the EUM/MM situation being an avoidance of dealing with issues at home, but yes, that sure makes sense. It did feel like an improvement over how I was feeling at the time, but we all know how that story goes. You said “you got away from the EUMâ€, well, yes, sure, I broke up with him almost 2 months ago now (if you don’t count the “slip†at the conference), but I don’t feel like he’s “out of my system†yet. I still long to hear from him, wonder what he’s doing, wonder if he misses me, and all those other “FBG in NC†kinds of thoughts. Like everyone says, though, it is getting easier to deal with every day, and I am much less obsessed with him in the last little while. Sorry to be nosy aphrogirl, but do you plan to continue in your “roomies†arrangement for now, too? I think you said you bought a new house – are you moving in soon? I do still have some hope that my husband will work on his issues, just as I am now working on mine. We’ll see how things go over the next few years, while we’ll still have children living at home.
@Aega – thanks for your explanation of your screen name
You seem to have chosen it with great consideration of meanings – cool. I’ll look out for your name change to “rock of Gibraltar†in future posts, lol. I envy your “laughing till your sides hurt†with your exMM. I don’t really have a similar sense of humour to my exMM (he’s got a very sarcastic, almost dark, sense of humour where I’m more lighthearted and silly), so we didn’t do a heck of a lot of laughing while we were together. My husband actually has an awesome sense of humour when he’s not in one of his “down†moods, and his ability to make me laugh was one of the reasons I married him in the first place.
OK, let’s set our SO’s up on a date. My husband is actually going through a “good†phase right now – not grumpy or depressed for the last little while, so maybe he’ll get your husband laughing while they are giving each other OCD tips. They could come back to our place afterwards, and I’ll have some “Swiffers†and bottles of “Mr Clean†waiting for them
You said “Sorry about waxing so gloomy, I’m trying to make sense of things in my head and the frustration just spills over†– no problem whatsoever. If we’re going to be helpful to each other, and discuss NML’s topics in an authentic way, then our feelings are going to show whether positive or negative. As aphrogirl said “this site just confirms how supportive and understanding and available many women are by nature. I am grateful, as always, to all of you who share here.†So am I, aphrogirl, so am I.
I have just received a voicemail message on my mobile from my long standing assclown. I have been seeing him for 22 months [since November 2007] and he always told me he never wanted a relationship. On top of that he hardly ever took me anywhere, and whenever we did go anywhere it was always me who instigated it [and paid]. Basically, i let this poor excuse of a man use me for all that time and i got miniscule crumbs in return. And very poor treatment at times.
Then in June this year, he randomly announced that he had a girlfriend!!!!!!!! [remember, he told he he was not looking for a relationship with anyone] And get this! He explained to me that he had always faniced a particular girl since the age of 21 [he is now 33] but nothing happened between them back then. But in May this year, he randomly bumped into her on the street and he asked her to be his girlfriend on the spot. They did not even court!!! And she accepted.
Well, this man has continued to sleep with me since the arrival of his new girlfriend. I hate myself for doing this but i just couldn’t stop it. It was like i was addicted to him, the sex and the physical attraction. But the more i continued to see him, the more i became disgruntled at having to be his SIDE SHAG whilst some other girl [who, unlike myself, has invested zero time in him] takes the glory of being his official girlfriend who gets to be paraded in front of his friends and family.
So when he called me last week for a booty call, I TURNED HIM DOWN. Because i rejectd him [i rarely do] he told me not contact him again. But i did. In fact, i was so angry and hurt by the disrespectful way i’ve been treated for 22 months, i started to text him everyday since our phone-call, sending at least 3 a day! I know girls! I turned *psycho* on his ass, telling him how hurt i am about him taking up with the new girl, and accusing him of being cold and selfish and having no consideration for me and my feelings. I also told him that him and the girl will not last and that he is going to miss me and want me back in his life. I couldn’t myself. I knew sending him all these texts was the wrong thing to do but i felt compelled.
I received NO reply whatsoever to my texts….. until today! after i sent him yet another 2 texts. The last time we were together [around 2 weeks ago] he was telling me that he would like to be having sex with me long in the distant future [around 10 or 20 years time]. I did not say anything at the time, but today his words crossed my mind and i became angry. Since he has made it clear in no uncertain terms that we will never be a proper couple, I felt that he was assuming i was going to be dumb enough to continue being his secret side-shag for the next 20 years of my life.
So my 2 texts this morning addressed this issue and i told him that he was absolutely crazy and he would never get me to waste my life, fulfilling his pathetic pipe dream as his bit on the side [whilst he gets on with is life, building a proper life with another woman], and if he was going to be sleeping with me 10 or 20 years from now, it would be because we were HUSBAND AND WIFE, not as a side shag!
As soon as the texts were delivered, he immediately called me, but i did not answer. He then left a voicemail message on my mobile telling me that my all texts are now pissing him off and we need to go our separate ways. I replied, cursing and swearing at him, telling him i’m glad i finally pushed him over the edge. I also told him to leave me the f**k alone now from now on.
Needless to say, he never replied to that one!
I have his girefriends phone number and for a hot second i felt like calling her an teelling her all about me and him. I even dialled her number but there was no reply. Now, i have thought against contacting her as i know its not gong to bring me any satisfaction.
I hate myself right now, for being such an idiot to let a man treat me so badly for the last 22 months. This is not my pattern at all!! I still don’t understand how this man got to get away with murder. I am usually a woman of high self esteem, high expectations and firm boundaries.
HOW DID THIS HAPPEN TO ME????????????
When i used to tell my friends about me and him, they’d look at me like i am MAD to stay with him. I started to feel judged so i stopped talking to them about us.
I really do hope i will be able to forgive myself, as i feel so ashamed to have allowed such blatant liberties to take place.
But now that I FINALLY got a reaction from him after all those texts, i feel like i can start to heal and move on now. [yes i know that sounds pathetic as i should not have to wait for him to tell me to leave him alone]
Day 1 of “No Contact” starts tomorrow.
Wish me luck girls! I am about to go cold turkey. I feel it’ll be successful though because i have now angered him so i dont think he’ll be contacting me now anyway. And i am now too embarrassed to dare contact him again.
@Meant – LOLOLOL ! I had actually typed something about our SO’s comparing notes on Swiffer and Mr. Clean, but then erased it because I thought they may only be household names in the US. Apparently they are universal though, kind of like cocaine and marijuana…
Check these out (the lyrics are on the last two are almost uncanny to me): Anna Ternheim “Such A Lonely Soulâ€, Katie Todd “Leaveâ€, Tracy Chapman “Almostâ€, and Reamonn “Supergirlâ€. Ironically, I was only familiar with Tracy Chapman, and not this particular song of hers, and it was Pandora that suggested these to me. If a computer program can read my state of mind this accurately, how the heck much is everyone around me seeing??
My husband’s sense of humor is good, too, although frequently different from mine. This is where the MM and I really synced – the same sense of humor, ranging from semantic and obscure (where we just crack each other up and people wonder what on earth was so funny) to totally campy (think so-bad-they’re-good comedy classics with John Belushi, Mel Brooks, etc). My SO considers the first “intellectually elitist†and the latter “immature†or “too Americanâ€. I used to think he didn’t relate to some of what I find funny because of having grown up in a foreign country, but I think it may actually be me. The word plays the MM and I used volley with have a definite AS pattern and most folks’ minds don’t work that way.
@Meant , aphrogirl, lisa, (Angelina – I don’t know whether you have kids, do you?)
So I have a question for you guys: if the person you had fallen in love with while still married hadn’t turned out to be an AS/EUM, would you have left your SO or stayed because of your children? Having grown up while both my parents were going through sequential divorces, I remember distinctly how crushing the ones that happened while I was really young felt the time. But – I think what my mom’s life (and mine) would have been like had she stayed with my dad and I am so glad that she didn’t.
This may sound self-centered and likely like something a person without a child would say, but I really do believe that no one owes their life to anyone else. Meaning, you love your kids and do everything you can for them but you do not sacrifice your own personal happiness for them. Kids eventually grow up and understand that their future is theirs to make regardless of whether their parents stayed together or not. I took my parents’ divorce very hard. I remember crying my eyes out and hurting worse than anything I had felt before. But I was 7, and it passed. By the time I was in junior high I understood that what had happened had been for the best. I now see the isolation and hopelessness my mom had felt and I applaud her making that break. I don’t think that sparing me the pain of a divorce but subsequently putting herself through who knows how many more years of misery would have been fair to her. What do you guys think?
@Meant – btw, congrats on the 20 instead of 200 thoughts of your MM! My progress has been a little slower, I think yesterday’s cutoff was 197…
Aega there is a diff between misery and living with an ex as a roomie. Me and ex, who is a bit odd but not an EUM, are friends who can share a house in relative harmony. I have stayed at my other house till the water main broke, and have “camped” there while its being worked on. My daughter was old enough that she had her own life, she loves us but remember that age when your parents were sort of a minor inconvenience in your life?
The AC came into my life after the split with the SO. Were the AC not an AC, and thus had that relationship morphed into something really serious I probably would have stayed roomies with the ex, with a plan to live together after the kid left. Who knows.
Easy for me though, at 50 plus I don’t need to be with someone every nite, and I understand delayed gratification.
Hey meant and Agea, and anyone else starting NC. I do want to remind you two…you guys have both, in my estimation, started NC as of only a week or so ago. Its been five months for me and I am starting to feel that I am really coming out from under the AC spell, coming out from wanting that AC to come around, to change, to be everything he sort of wants to be but cannot pull together.
Yup, five months and I can finally see a change in me in that I really do not want him, really. I see him for who is is, as opposed to the man I though he could be. And, really this was not fair to him, cause my fantasy made me not see him for who he is. Make no mistake, that man is an EUM and an AC. But, I should have respected that and left him alone instead of entertaining the fantasy that he would change, even if it was a fantasy he helped encourage sometimes. Big lesson learned. Onward.
@Aega – I second your Katie Todd ‘Leave’ recommendation. She is one of my favorite artists. You should also check out her songs “In & Around”, “This Time”, and “The Polite”.
@full speed ahead
Yesyesyes – I listened earlier today and the part that gets me the most is her lyrics. Did you listen to Reamonn’s “Supergirl”?
@aphrogirl
Yes, I remember the “minor inconvenience†stage… I can definitely see your point. I was asking because it occurred to me that while all of us related to the feeling of isolation that the secrecy of the relationship with the MM/EUM/AC brought, I didn’t really get the sense that any of you felt it at home in the same way. I mean, naturally, losing that connection with your SO’s had opened up an opportunity for another man to come under your emotional radar in the first place, but you were able to continue your living arrangements without *that* situation being painful in and of itself.
I think you answered my question, though: “there is a difference between misery and living with an ex as a roomieâ€. I had been trying to sort out why I feel so anxious and constrained in my house and why it is making me miserable even though my husband is a good guy.
The roommate arrangement isn’t a roommate arrangement if one person still wants to continue the physical part of the relationship.
Before I moved away, when I was effectively living in my studio as if it were a sublet inside my own house, I still felt claustrophobic and restless. I’m now realizing that if the pressure to keep the marriage “normal†were not there, the arrangement would have been just fine. My husband, however, was never willing to understand that I needed some distance for a while to figure out what was going on inside me. He’d humor me for a day, but then go right back to acting as if the trial separation I asked for were silly and nonexistent.
Today has been the hardest day of NC yet. This city is awash with memories. My SO insisted on lunch in a restaurant where the MM and I used to spend hours talking. I missed him so much that I excused myself to go cry in the bathroom and used the same upset stomach excuse to cover up the fact that I couldn’t eat. I hate this feeling.
When we were done, he wanted to mosey around town for a bit. We walked into a consignment shop where the MM and I used to goof around in comically wacky get-ups. My SO asserted his superiority over all things wacky immediately and we left in short order. Another boho place I used to love going to (the MM always drove by there whenever we were in the neighborhood to see whether I was in the mood to go rummaging through) is right down the street. My husband refused to go in. He said the place was ridiculous. I agreed (it is… fantastically so…) and told him he didn’t have to go in with me, I just wanted to pop in for old times’ sake while he got coffee across the street. But I was basically barred from going.
And then we ran into someone who knows the MM, my SO, and me, but is blissfully ignorant of the whole thing. I felt like a heel.
I don’t know that I can make it the remaining 3 days without a word. Trying to read and to write out the compulsion so that I don’t break NC. I have become a total wet blanket.
Aega, I am a bitt confused about where your head is at but…seperate these two guys, please. One does not make the other better or worse. And do not forget the most important point…The MM is the one who was not willing to leave his spouse, when he was finally asked to face that possibility, regardless of how cautiously you approached the subject.
Yup its sad, and heartbreaking and oh so flippin hard that WTSHTF they decide to not be strong and stick up for the * US*. Ahh, but that is when we realize that is has to be NC.
However, separate these two guys. They are different and you cannot compare your husband to the EUM fantasy, or the EUM reality, that is not fair to any of you.
What is the remaining three days you are talking about ? Just keep NC. If the EUM was as great as you think he would have had the ability to answer the question you mom made you pose in the affirmative, regardless of how you might have tried to dissuade him.
Wet blanket? So be it, you have reason to be blue, getting over the EUM addiction/ fantasy. You do not owe anyone anything at this time. When you are ready to give, you will give again.
@aphrogirl
I know. Believe me I know. This is why I moved away in the first place. It’s just being here and seeing everything that reminds me of the MM while I am trying to be gracious to the person I am still married to. I thought the trip home woud help me decide on a direction. Well, I did: as long as I was holed up in my house watching sunrises from the deck and listening to the coyotes at night I had a feeling of *being* home, of belonging here. But yesterday and today we drove in to the city where I used to work and where everything reminds me of the MM.
In 3 days I will be flying back out. Two thousand miles really help NC. Right now however I am barely hanging on to it.
Thank you for listening and knocking sense into me. I have taken needy to a whole new level today…
@Aega – I *love* Tracy Chapman, but I don’t recognise the song you mentioned – I will look it up shortly, along with the others you suggested. It’s funny, my exMM and I used to communicate a lot through music, and one song I told him had meaning for me (re: him) was “Give Me one Reason to Stay Here†by Tracy Chapman (also “I am Yoursâ€). I told him about the first one, meaning that if he was willing to change his life to be with me, I would come to him. Now when I think of it, it’s in a different way – more like a “what have you done for me lately?†kind of a “give me a reason to stayâ€, if you catch my drift. (It’s OK if you don’t, I have weird ways of describing things sometimes).
You asked “if the person you had fallen in love with while still married hadn’t turned out to be an AS/EUM, would you have left your SO or stayed because of your children†– wow, that’s very hard to answer. You know, if the OM felt like a healthy choice for me, I just may have left, I’m not sure. I was talking to my (male, nonEUM) friend today, and I told him about my affair (he is now the only person in real life who knows besides my family doctor and my counsellor). He actually said – “it’s a good thing the Emu turned out to be someone you felt you couldn’t be happy with on a long term basisâ€. I think he said that because he knows I need to figure out what I am going to do about my marriage before I look for a potential new partner. I agree that no one owes their life to someone else. I know my children would survive a divorce, but I want to wait another couple of years – so that I can be sure what I want to do. It’s weird, today my husband asked me if I wanted to go out tomorrow night. He *never* suggests going out!!! So I now have a date with my husband tomorrow night!!!
Most of the time I feel OK living in the same house as my husband. But when he gets into one of his (dark, uncommunicative) moods, the girls and I avoid him, and there is a tension in the house, or a dark cloud. So yes, it can be painful at times. Isolating and painful. It is difficult realizing that one can feel so very alone while married.
(I think I have had a couple of turns in the last few days).
I’m sorry you had that “memory of the exMM while with your SO†experience today. I hope you can stay strong and maintain NC for the next 3 days and beyond. We do have a “friendly competition†going, right? Same-day NC sisters, lol. And don’t apologize for “taking needy to a new level†– we all get our turn to do that
@aphrogirl – that’s fortunate for you that the AC came after the split with your ex. That is the right order to do things!!! (I guess the best order is to leave out the AC altogether!). You are right, Aega and I are about 1 week NC today (good memory!!). Thanks for the reassurance that in a few months we may feel less longing for our exes, and more fully realize that “they are who they are”, and not who we have fantasized they are.
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