When I was around 21, I went out with a guy who was about eight years older and was probably my first proper experience of a Mr Unavailable with dashes of assclownary. My friends and family couldn’t stand him as he was very arrogant, used to make far too many wisecracks about threesome’s with my friends, and his family told lies on me and even made ‘borderline’ racist comments. The relationship lasted a couple of years but I broke it off about a year in, because I couldn’t take anymore and it was also difficult to go out with someone who people couldn’t stand. Of course the various rejections that I felt as a result of being involved with him meant that even though he was the source of my misery, he also appeared to be the source of my happiness and I convinced myself I couldn’t be happy without him in my life. So I went back, albeit I was very distant probably as some sort of protective measure and I eventually finished it…and moved on to an actual assclown.
A few years later and a few assclowns and Mr Unavailables along, I was engaged (I know I fit much drama into my twenties) to someone with at the very least narcissistic tendencies. I became a shadow of my former self, literally apologising for my existence, which no doubt only fuelled the disrespect. I often wonder what made me accept a proposal from someone who I knew was no good for me, and I realise it’s because I had such low self-esteem that I felt that when someone says that they want to go out with me, that they fancy me, or that they want to marry me, I should say yes. Even if the rest of me said no… He broke up with me a few months before I actually ended it and I convinced myself I couldn’t be happy without him and fought for the relationship. It was only once we got back together that I realised that I’d never been happy with him in the first place for me to have something to miss.
After I ended things with him, I vowed to be single and independent and then ‘somehow’ found myself being the other woman. Combined with the fact that I became very ill during this time, this relationship nearly brought me to my knees and was a serious lesson in self-loathing. I broke it off with him so many times, made ultimatums, screamed, shouted, whimpered, simpered, played nice, played it cool, and essentially kept going back because I couldn’t imagine me happy without him in my life.
These are just three examples – there are others – of where I have felt that my happiness, my reason for living and being was tied to someone, who quite frankly in retrospect I couldn’t give a monkey’s about now and who my life moved on without.
Your happiness is not dependent on someone else.
The agony I felt with and without these people was like putting myself in some sort of personal hell. I felt like my ‘purpose’ was with them and that without them in my life, not only could I not be happy; I wasn’t sure how to exist.
Each time I felt like I was at a loss without someone, unsure of what to do, and basically aimless, I felt the lure of a person who represented my pain source. Going back and trying to love and be loved had me ‘busy’ again and all the angst rattling around in my head got replaced with new angst albeit with the purpose of winning someone who I didn’t really want. I let men and the relationships I had with them define who I was and my reason for being. Each time a relationship ended, because I’d turned into a human transformer, shapeshifting, morphing and adapting to be whoever and whatever they wanted me to be, I wasn’t sure who the hell I was!
Who am I? What am I interested in? What are my hobbies? What do I want to be? What are my goals? Where am I headed?
I couldn’t answer these questions because I’d been too busy being blinded by the smoke I was blowing up their bums putting them on a pedestal and making these men out to be more powerful and necessary than they were. My answers were all centred around them.
I’ve said before that things changed for me when I started to love myself unconditionally but it was also the realisation that what I’d been telling myself about how I couldn’t survive or be happy without them was total bullsh*t.
When I ended things with the Mr Unavailable who triggered the major epiphanies I had about myself and my love habits, I realised that when I was happier alone and being with them only made me feel bad about myself, they were surplus to requirements. It was time to listen to myself and see the wood for the trees.
One day I realised that I could be happy independently of a man. I realised that I could be happy on my own, off my own back, of my own means. It suddenly came into sharp focus that it wasn’t the first time I’d thought I couldn’t be happy or that I wouldn’t feel or survive, and the evidence said quite the contrary.
It stands to reason that if I’d thought I couldn’t be happy with one guy and replaced them with another I couldn’t be happy about, I was exaggerating the necessity of these people in my life.
The person you can’t be happy with unless they’re in your life and loved unconditionally, is you.
Oh you can run out there and try to love other people to death in the hope that the love cup will runneth over and fill you up with whatever is missing, but the reality is that without you loving you, happiness is fleeting and also has the potential to be robbed from you with every person that comes in and out of your life. When you are personally secure and you do love yourself, it means that yes it will hurt when people do come and go, but how you feel about you will be constant, meaning you may feel unhappy for a time, but you won’t place yourself in some sort of personal hell because you will know that you can still be happy, that you can be happier again, and that life is more than this person.
It turns out I could be special and loved without Tom, Dick, and Harry etc (not their real names obviously!), in my own company. You don’t need them in order to feel special, approved of, loved, or with a purpose. You can do all of that on your own.
Your thoughts?
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When I let someone else be the source of my happiness, it was horrifically self-destructive. Took me years to understand that. I really thought I needed HIM to be happy.
Wrong. I needed to learn how to like, respect and trust myself. To change my way of thinking and behaving. Now I know happiness comes from within, and nobody can take it away from me.
Very valuable lesson.
Well said Aurora! It’s great to get to that place where you don’t feel like you’re ‘missing out’ just becuase they’re not there.
Another great post! Thank you Natalie for opening my eyes…I am making some positive changes now and it has been almost 2 whole months of NC!! thank you soo much for all you help xx
Superb post and very empowering thoughts. I, too, went through periods where I felt completely lost without the man I had come to believe held my happiness in his hands. The assclown was a crush before he was a reality (nightmare) and I literally set my mood by whether I had seen him that day, talked to him, interacted. I was on cloud nine when he paid attention to me and was in the depths of despair when he didn’t. When we ended, I felt an actual pain in my chest at the thought of not having him in my life and searched frantically for reasons to contact him, reconnect. Months on, I now look at myself with a mixture of pity and wonder. Not only is my life so much better without him in it, I have learned to like me and my mood has leveled out. No earth shattering lows, no mountainous highs but honest peace, calm and joy. No drama. I can actually feel things, appropriately and proportionally, at the appropriate times. I cannot believe the power I gave him (particularly in light of how he abused it). I also woke up and wondered who I was – I had nothing in my life once he was gone. Now, I seem to fill my days just fine, thanks, with things I enjoy doing. I have no idea where “I” went during the relationship – a total lobotomy would have been less destructive and would have had the same effect. It wasn’t till it was all over that I understood I had made him the center of my world and given him the power over my joy and agony. Never again. Oddly enough, although I made him the source of my happiness, in retrospect, I was happy only a tiny amount of the time. The rest was suffering, of my own making. Now, it may be just me, but I actually feel happy most of the time.
The lightbulbs just keep turning on in my head. Thank you Natalie for throwing the swtich.
Another great post. I have been looking at the last few posts as connected and I have to wonder where I got the belief that other people were in control of my happiness. I also (erroneously) feel that I am responsible for the feelings of others – that to love someone is to sacrifice yourself for their happiness and expect them to do the same for you. Perhaps its something learned from my mother, who sacrificed all for the well-being of others and was permanently miserable because it was never returned. I am embarrassed to say that I am in my 40s and am only learning now that I alone am responsible for how I feel and am also just recognizing my pattern of trying to control how others feel (namely, the need to make them love me). I hope there are lots of people in the world who grew up just knowing or being taught this information – I wish I had been one of them. Still, better to get it now than even later or never. Love and thanks, NML. I have yet to read a post that doesn’t echo through my soul.
Another eye-opener. I hadn’t realized the extent to which I do this. It explains so much. As I read this post, I noticed a picture on my laptop. It is of me and the assclown, taken during one of our early dates. My face is literally glowing, his looks scared and uncertain. A perfect illustration of this post. I can guarantee that even the next day, I wasn’t glowing – it never lasted very long and depended totally on what he was doing. The blowing hot and cold, the highs and the lows. The rollercoaster was exhausting and yet till I read this post it never dawned on me that I had control of the rollercoaster – that I could have gotten off anytime simply by chosing to. It also explains the addiction to drama – if you could actual control the highs and lows, it wouldn’t be drama, it would just be life. I am shaking my head in disbelief and thanking my lucky stars I read this.
I too am in the middle of a self-created hell because someone who I thought loved me more than I’ve ever loved myself has left me for the second time. I’m desiring to love me and get to know me as I transition into a place that is unknown (self-acceptance) but I’m finding it very hard and torture every single day. I sit a work crying. I go home crying. I’m back and forth between emotions on what I should do and how I’ll get past this pain sooner rather than later.
Hey Moving Forward,
It won’t last forever. I know you know that already, but reading your post was so heartbreaking. I’ve been there myself. My whole self worth was wrapped up in my son’s father. I was nothing without him. To love was to sacrifice me. I look back at that time in my life and I think to myself how god awful that I ever felt that way about myself!! He was so not worth what I though he was. (He does not like himself either, but that’s for another post!!) When I finally cut him out I had no self esteem and was totally empty. Without him in my life for me to make myself happy, what was I going to do? How could I possibly make myself happy? It’s taken a while to feel good about myself again. I still struggle with it. I cried in the bathroom at work and always at home. Everyone was wondering why I was such a crab all the time. When you do get to that place of self acceptance, it’s going to be so worth while and you will be glad you had the strength to grit your teeth and do it.
Hi Moving Forward,
Just wanted to add my support here.
When I ended my relationship with my AC, I felt totally pleased and confident that I was doing the right thing.
Just the same — I couldn’t sleep; I could barely eat; I looked like death; and I just about flushed my career down the toilet.
After spending time with friends, I couldn’t wait to get to the car, so I could be by myself and cry. I couldn’t wait to get home, so could cry louder. LOL!
(Pretty great for someone happy a *relationship* was over, huh?)
I know you can’t believe it now. But it will get better.
For me, it was like one day I just suddenly saw everything for what it really was, and it lost all value for me.
For others it gradually feels better over time.
Either way, you’ll get there. I promise.
In the meantime, keep coming here and get the strength and support you need to keep Moving Forward!
xoxo,
Over It
I think we can all relate to what you are feeling and where you are. This post is timely for you, as it sounds like you have invested him with the power to make you happy and also very very unhappy. I’m not sure why it seems all of us never got to know ourselves well enough (or like ourselves enough) to stand strong against assclowns or stand up for ourselves but maybe the tears you are crying now are the release of alot of pent up emotions. Keep reading this site – I have not found a single post here that hasn’t helped me in some way. I wish you the best. You are certainly not alone in what you are going through.
Healthy children grow up in (mostly) happy and disciplined homes. Their parents let them know – by consistent praise, or by an approving glance when warranted, or in some other way, consistently – that they are competent and respected.
Too many of us miss the message, or our home wasn’t that disciplined, or our parents were otherwise less than ideal. We have to rebuild that solid foundation, that assumption and belief and self awareness of our own competence and value.
One important aspect of rebuilding self esteem is the input, advice, and just plain company of people we respect. Coming from a confused background makes this tough, but as you choose to avoid people with dodgy ethics, lack of honor or honesty, lack of compassion, and deliberately spend time with good people, the things you hear and the examples you see will help reassure you and guide you in building a better life.
Sometimes a journal can help organize things; every day write a page or two about the most prominent thought. Laying out problems, concerns, and dreams helps us organize them and understand them. Over time the journal can show the journey, that is, actual progress and maybe some dearly held ideas that should be questioned. Sometimes we write our own guide book.
In the mean time, honor all the advice for moderate depression – strive for a consistent daily routine, healthy diet, well-lit places (dark rooms are hiding places, and fail to lighten the spirit), mild exercise as you are able, plenty of fresh water and adequate minerals and vitamins. A piece of chocolate each day may become something you look forward to, and joy is always to be welcomed.
When I first starting reading about assclowns, my mouth was open as I read the exact description of my ex. It made sense to me finally why he was doing the things he did. Now when I read posts like this one, my mouth is open again as I am reading a description of myself and my desperate behavior. It is no wonder he had no problem being an assclown to me. I practically begged for it. Any attention was better than no attention. Even though most times I was NOT happy when he was around, I still wanted him around and waited all day for his call, made sure I was home for it. My life revolved around him and his plans, even though I was NEVER a priority in his life. Now I am starting to realize that I was not a priority in my OWN life and I put gaining his attention and love as my main goal. Probably a lot of pressure for any man, but especially for an assclown. I was a blank canvas looking to be filled. I provided the empty canvas for him to paint his assclown portrait. The good part is that I don’t blame myself for his actions but am starting to accept my responsibility for allowing it. Like NML said, I could of gotten off the roller coaster. But, I was too busy trying to fill the void. NML has a way of getting me to dig a little deeper and face the ugly reality I have avoided. Even though he is an assclown, I have a problem too. We enabled eachother.
Jenny- I loved the idea that you were a blank canvas on which he painted his assclown portrait. Your comment hit home, big time. When I first found this site, I laughed at the term assclown and realized my ex definitely was one. Ok, helpful information – it wasn’t just me. But I kept reading and kept learning and have realized – yeah, it is me. I invited this in, I attracted this. Water seeks its own level and, while I truly don’t want to believe I am an “assclown”, in that I never sought to hurt anyone else, I am not fully emotionally available and my desperation (although I am loathed to use the word and would have died, even a week ago, had anyone even suggested I was desperate) made no other outcome possible. I wasn’t being honest either. I wasn’t saying what I wanted – I was accepting what was offered, even when I knew it wasn’t enough or what I wanted because it was better than the nothing that proceeded it. We enabled each other – a perfect way to put it. It takes two for assclowns to thrive. While I still firmly believe my desperation didn’t cause him to be an assclown – he was one already – it most certainly allowed him to be an assclown. Until I address the void in me and my life, until I learn self-love and self-acceptance, there is no question all I will continue to encounter is another assclown. It’s time to get down to the serious and difficult work of changing me.
I used to, (and I think even on this site) , certainly to other people who cared about me…give my reasons for staying with my ex throughout the awful years as ‘ I loved him unconditionally’ I can honestly today say that repeating that to myself was a ballsed up mantra. On the priority list that I kept in my head he came first. NML is so right in saying that you must first and foremost love yourself unconditionally before you can engage with another person. The reason I feel grounded just now is because I no longer experience being not constant to myself. My opinions and values and ideas about whats great and tolerable in relationships have settled. I know or am beginning to understand what I want. The rewarding thing for me is how it affects you in other areas of your life, with friends , family some work situations. The constancy for me is not about being inflexible its about being yourself regardless.
Great Post NML. I recently got another call just two days ago from assclown ex; ofcourse after being straight NC for the past 5 months now. I didn’t answer his call. He tried to sound as sincere in his message but never once apologizing for the terrible things he said the last day we spoke. What narcissist ass clown would apologize? They can’t be cured in a 5 month period. Even though I didn’t return his call; I must say that I had to think to myself what was more important? My dignity; self esteem and power that I fought so hard and finally regained back during those past 5 months of NC or returning his call and looking DESPERATE? I chose my dignity; self esteem and power. Him phoning me and me returning his call would not have been worth it. I phoned my best friend instead and she gave me more reassurance that returning his call would be an opening door giving him access back into my life knowing that nothing had changed. It would simply be me accepting the same treatment with nothing benefiting me. Not to mention he probably had ran through all of his shags and his supply had simply dried up. I thank God for giving me the strength not to even pick up the phone. Its funny that in his msg that he stated; “You can call me back but if not it is what it is. If it is what it is; then he should already know the answer. DUECES!!
@JJ: That is so funny – the old, ‘call me, but if not whatever’ line. These guys are just such cowards. Honestly. They can’t face anything about themselves. They’re kind of ridiculous. I often think of my AC dumping me and saying, ‘This is really hard for me so don’t be unkind to me’ (when I hadn’t said anything, but that I was really shocked). ALWAYS THEIR EMOTIONS FIRST, even when (and especially when) they’re being harmful little twa*s. They’re like automotons, or some form of sub-species – they can’t even see themselves, and how their behaviour (their survival mechanisms) are so draining and hurtful for those around them. It’s just reactive. They’re like the earliest form of vine.
I couldn’t agree more with this post. It’s the one thing I have been constantly saying to myself these past months. Any time I feel anxious or just somehow displeased with my lot in life, I find myself thinking of my AC or some fantasy man, and then I have to say to myself (sometimes out loud) that he is not responsible for my happiness. That has been one of the most interesting and valuable things, realizing that I still have the same sorts of frustrations and inner dialogue rubbish to deal with, even without my AC, which means that just as these people aren’t responsible for our happiness, they’re also not responsible for our misery either. I think that relationships can be this foil, at times, for all sorts of unhealthy patterns of thinking. I am actually very grateful for this time, being on my own, because I’ve been able to better see my patterns of thinking without the confusing variable of a relationship, and I have also been far more gentle and loving with myself than ever before, really. All that dissipated energy that I put into loving (and sucking up to, as he said) my AC, and other men in life (like Sunshine Fading I seem to expend a silly amount of energy remaining emotionally connected – in some form – to my exes) is now being pulled back and put into me, and, the truth is, I have found I am actually much more straight-forwardly loving to the people around me, because I am more calm, more confident, and far less ‘please put a coin in my mouth and I will dance for you’.
This is my take home message: “The person you can’t be happy with unless they’re in your life and loved unconditionally, is you.” Thanks Natalie for such a generous post, and for sharing your personal stories – It’s always heartening to know that you made it through, and even thrived.
Finally, thanks ladies for your comments. There are so many intelligent insights, and, let’s face it, bloody hilarious descriptions in there. You’re crack-ups!
This has always been my motto. I fully agree.
I have been this way in just about every romantic relationship in my life. Just the other day I was crying asking myself, why is it that every time someone walks away from me or hurts me so badly that I have to leave them, do they seem to take pieces of me with them. Why am I always so devastated? At one point I just wanted to die. It wasnt just that person who repeatedly hurt me, it was just feeling so stupid for putting up with the same behavior from more than on person and not seeming to learn my lesson.
I am learning to think so differently now that I’ve found this site. Thank God…For the past two weeks I have been glued to this website reading article after article, journaling my butt off and discovering where I went wrong, holding myself accountable for the first time in my life.
I like the part where you actually say you have been holding yourself accountable. I think that is the most important step to recovery from relationship insanity. Once you become accountable you can easily pick out the triggers that make you behave in a certain way. I found this site in January, and i am telling you I have changed thbe way i operate. I have taken back the power i used to give to these people. i am not yet there, but i have taken out the rose tinted glasses, and the fur coat of denial. i see bull shit for what it is, what is left is for me to say it as it is and stop trying to spare his feelings when mine are being trampled on!
Good post, however I have become SO happy and self-sufficient on my own that I can’t envisage having a man in my life (and haven’t for nearly four years).
I feel I may have thrown out the baby with the bathwater ..
Grace – I hear ya!
Life is more than this person that treats you with no respect and only uses your emotions and feelings that you have for them against you so they can get what they want from you regardless if it hurts you or not.
I want someone in my life that is capable of loving me honestly and openly because without those abilities there will be nothing but suffering and sorrow on my part-and no chance at any happiness at all.
dawn you read my mind.
what natalie has written has taken me almost a lifetime to learn
Awesome blog. I found myself totally controlled and manipulated by this bottom feeder I just broke it off with, after 1 1/2 years. He had me walking on eggshells and constantly put me thru tests to prove that I was true and worth it. He would distract me from issues by dangling this “carrot” in front of me about us moving in together, going on vacation, etc. I loved this picture he sketched for me that I would give just about anything to keep him happy. This included giving him money, putting a plasma tv on my credit card. Ugh. We broke up in July and I asked him to please pay me back what he owes, about 900 for the TV and 400 for other borrowed funds. It’s been four weeks since I last heard from him and he said he would pay me…. I feel like such a jerk. I saw the red flags, I knew he was wrong, why was I on autopilot continuing to give and let him take without reciprocation..
You’re not a jerk, you made a mistake. You’ve obviously learned from it and will be the better for it. Chin up!
@JTFM – I assure you I felt (and still sometimes feel) the same as you do – really ashamed that I was investing all I had for 10 months of the relationship when he was only giving for 5 (at best). It wasn’t helped by the fact that he would say enough to keep me hoping, but it was still based on hope, not reality. I was on auto-pilot too, like I was in a relationship with myself, that I could love for two, and had this whole ‘must stand by my man’ nonsense going on.
However, I don’t think we can be too hard on ourselves – unless it’s repeat behaviour – since it really does take an experience like this to learn the lessons. I wouldn’t have believed the level of flitty, self-serving crap that ACs stoop to, had someone just warned me.
More to the point, most people I know in outwardly healthy, long-term relationships have all sorts of weird (even if mild) co-dependencies and approval-seeking tendencies going on. It just so happens that the couples are made up of two good, kind-hearted, relationship-oriented people so it’s not a destructive thing. What I am trying to say is that almost everyone has trouble with the ego, desire, living in the future or the past, attachment, acceptance/rejection, intimacy, delusions of grandeur etc, and so if you combine these with the intense dysfunction of a AC/EU person, you’re bound to get some sort of crazy outcome.
JourneyToFindMe, I had the “carrots” dangled to me AFTERWARDS. Whenever I did some MINOR little thing that left the A/C just totally P/O’d, he would say, “Well, I WAS going to do [such and such a thing] for you, but now I’m not!”
Empty words. He had no intention of doing those things. But when a guy just totally blows your self esteem, he then can rub salt into the wound by claiming he WAS going to do something.
I can too can relate to the pain of waiting for a call and making my schedule around Assclowns. Staying home and not going places because I felt depressed. I was so depressed that I had to see a therapist and was on meds for deep depression. I had been seeing this person for 5 years.
“You don’t need them in order to feel special, approved of, loved, or with a purpose. You can do all of that on your own.” Not only a great empowering realization to stand on your own but also one to hold onto even IN healthy relationship or they can go quickly south.
Believe me I have seen men have insecurities and start morphing into me – how’s that for backasswards. Men do it too – especially insecure men. Hold on to yourself – no matter who you are – and if you don’t like you – change it.
Brilliant!
I broke No Contact but it was a nice reminder of why I choose No Contact. For two weeks, I was happier and happier and then being back in his life just for a few days; I feel miserable and anxious. So now I have to start No Contact AGAIN for like the 4th time.
Eventually I will get this through my head that he is NFG. The sadness of losing the illusion and dreams is the most hard to bare. Discovering who he really is and how much time I wasted on this person is the worst feeling. Maybe it’s my pride & ego that keeps me addicted to someone who can’t, doesn’t and won’t love me??
@ Cindy
Sorry to hear that about breaking NC. I’ve broken it so many times before. I’m trying not to be too hard on myself for doing it the last time, but I hope I never break NC again, I don’t want to seem desperate or give him another chance to use my emotions against me, or even use me, or for him to think that I am dependent on him.
But I saw my AC today while I was in a taxi. I fought myself, not to turn and look at him. I felt so anxious and miserable, the thought of seeing him hurts and makes me angry. But yet I still wanted to call, so I called a good friend of mine. I tried looking at it as some sort of sign, but I’m not sure what sign that is. I still have not heard from him since last Thursday. I prayed that I would not see him. But funny as it is he works in my area and I have to pass where he works on a daily basis, so I never can go one day without thinking of him. He seemed so happy and as though he does not have a care in the world, especially for me.
I think it has a lot to do with the rejection. I put myself in that position, now he doesn’t want me. But I try to remember that he would never appreciate me for the person I am. It hurts and annoys the hell out of me, but I try to keep busy, the quiet and stillness are the times I am most miserable and can not be alone. I know that isn’t healthy either because I am becoming obsessed and dependent on another object or people to keep me sane and not being able to find closure within myself.
I don’t know if I will ever hear from him again. I still check my phones for his calls. I still have him added on FB, ridiculous I know, but I’ve removed him once, then added him back. I can’t help but wonder if he saw me last time because it is a few weeks before his birthday.
I know my happiness is not dependent on him, but I need to change parts of my life so I can make myself happy.
“These are just three examples – there are others – of where I have felt that my happiness, my reason for living and being was tied to someone, who quite frankly in retrospect I couldn’t give a monkey’s about now and who my life moved on without.”
brilliant! I so get it now better than ever… all those wasted tears and years of busting my heart over guys I don’t even think twice about these days!
similarly I’ve learnt/taught myself when I’m hurting about ANYTHING (not just relationship challenges) to remember that in 5 years (and usually way less) I won’t be thinking about it!
thanks for the reset and as always… niiiice refreshing perspective!
I have started NC again, partly because he has not called me after the last time I allowed him to use me. It has been exactly 1 week since the last we met, I allowed him to use me for sex, and he has not called me after, I called him 5 days ago, and he has not even bothered to acknowledge me. The hardest thing for me to accept this is I was on NC with him prior to last week, I was all hyped and believing I had received a God send from this site, only to muck it all up last week. I allowed him to use me and in the end that last meet up has not benefited me in the least bit. This Assclown came back into my life a little over 5 months now, (he was a high school boyfriend, and I just hold on to feelings I have for the people I have relationships with). I put a relationship at risk, thinking I could have something with him and now I am left messed up even more than I was 5 months ago and he is out living his life. I have extreme lows at points in the days when my day comes to a still. And it hurts, just hurts.
Sunshine Fading,
It’s okay. Don’t be too hard on yourself.
The sex was great with my AC also; and I didn’t want it to end.
Mine also always went cold for a few days after. At the time, I didn’t understand, but now it’s obvious that he was managing down my expectations.
As the *relationship* continued but went nowhere,
I found myself feeling worse and worse after each time we were together. I recall one night, while he was already sound asleep, lying there and thinking “remember how awful you feel right now; and don’t come back here again.”
Sometimes it takes a while for your heart and brain to get in sync with the message. It will happen.
I’m sorry you are hurting right now,
but you are so not alone in this.
Keep coming back here; you’ll keep getting stronger.
xoxo,
Over It
oh, this is soooooooo affirming.
i’m learning to find things that i like about me in the men i’m dating. like… if a guy that i’m dating has great manners, i look at myself and say, “i love my manners.” and if he is good to other people and treats them kindly, i learn to see that trait in me, too. sometimes the guy has something i don’t have, and i learn from that, too. maybe i could be a little more assertive, a little more decisive and a little more selfish at times. okay!
it isn’t about guys being such magical beings that they sprinkle is with their fairy dust and we glisten because they’re there. we’re already sparkling and glowing and they’re attracted to the light. as we should be.
we all have our light inside. it’s just appreciating it enough to make room for it to shine… and not projecting it so much onto others that we think our light belongs to them…
to own it. love it. cherish it and let it shine… seems like a worthy quest to me.
thanks, natalie!
“The person you can’t live without is you”
I am going to blow that up and paste it on my noticeboard.
That is the biggest source of pain in my life – the fact that from a very early age I was denied being me – parents, teachers and then I internalised that and carried on the pattern with men. Amazingly I didn’t with friends – now I look to those relationships for evidence that I can be me and I can have healthy relationships. Strangely I’ve always been happy on my own when I’m on my own – so I have that to draw on as well. But when with a man the old beliefs would kick in. I’ve challenged and changed those now. “Getting out of stuck” is a great resource – thanks again Natalie for your generosity.
This entire site has been a massive eye opener! I have always been independent and self-sufficient (my mum always commented on this, from early childhood) and happy being single, but i was always afraid of taking responsibility for my own life, my choices etc, in case i made a mistake and f*cked it all up – i would have no one to blame but myself. So i focused on the men i was with or the men i was after instead as that was a nice little distraction. It was even worse once relationships would end and i would have to ‘start over’, make even more decisions, choices, figure out what i wanted – far easier to obsess over some worthless guy than on myself, or find a new guy to focus on instead. For the first time i am getting over the last guy by focusing on MYSELF, rather than the ‘next guy’ and it has been an absolute revelation. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Its really hard when you’re in it with someone to let go. I did the same thing of bending and twisting to satisfy him, but he never was. In the end I was left with defeat and not knowing who I was anymore. I’m not sure why I gave him so much power over me. But I know now that there are billions of people in the world. He is not the only guy out there. I deserve better, a person who is good to me, someone with the capacity to love.
I have always placed my own self value on my relationships with others. I totally relate to those that rode the roller coaster of emotions based on which ever direction their AC’s emotional wind was blowing. These jerks totally get off on the power they have over us. Now on almost 2 weeks of NC–I no longer cry as much, have as many stomach pains–it is like detoxing and just like any drug its just as bad for us to be in a relationship with these ACs. Natalie, thank you so much for bringing us together to know we aren’t alone and that there is a way out!
@Journey to Find Me
I was reading your comment. It literally jumped out at me making me question could if we could have been in relationship with the same ass clown. He was the biggest user too and tried his best to get whatever he could out of me; be it money; paying a bill; whatever! I never got any of my money back either and if you’re waiting you’re waiting for nothing. Ass clown narcissist men don’t pay shit back. They are users and cons. It is what they do for a living. His 50 inch flat screen was his only friend. Go back and read my last comment under this post. I have been NC for 5 months now and that ass clown called me Sunday night. I did not return his call and never will. He’s probably ran through all of his other shags and can’t get anymore money out of them so he figures he can use me once again. Not on God’s green earth. Whoever he has been using for the last past 5 months while we weren’t together has probably gone bankrupt fooling with him. You can only use a person for so long until they finally wise up. Stop auditioning for these Ass Clowns. We can do good and bad all by ourselves ladies.
I have come back to this blog on a daily basis and keep reading over and again the same posts. I am trying to get it right in my head, I have been so confused and sad and grieving. I am so thankful for the many posts and advice and reading through the comments is also helpful.
I recently became involved with a Childhood Sweetheart. The post NML wrote on the Childhood Sweetheart was so accurate – down to each detail- that I could of written it myself! I was amazed.
He contacted me through a common social network and he came on super strong in the beginning and I tried to get my bearings and BREATHE for a second, but he wouldn’t let up. He said het thought about me for 20 years, based his perception of happiness off of how he felt when he was with me back then, and had always thought of me through the years and tried to contact me several times, but only now did he succeed. He professed his love for me, and even mentioned wanting to have babies with me (even though he had a vasectomy!) He said he always dreamed of having a baby with me, dreamed of being with me all his life. He was recently divorced for 5 months when he started talking to me and I cautioned that things were moving too fast and tried to discuss rebounding, but he wouldn’t hear any of that. He was so sure about me he said after 20 years he wasn’t more sure of anything. We lived across the nation from each other and he wanted to start a long distance relationship with me. Within a few days a cell phone showed up a my door, his way for us to keep in touch with each other, I though it was so sweet and loved it at the time! He wanted to make plans to come and see me ASAP and I said we needed to wait to meet. Something inside me warned this was going too fast, too much, too soon, but he just kept telling me to “just go with it and fall”…and I did!
The few questions I did ask about his marriage (21/2 years) he told me that she cheated on him and that they were divorced (he proposed within 4 months of meeting her!), he also said he previous wife cheated on him. I felt that he needed time to come to terms with it and divorce is so hard, but he kept assuring me that he was well moved on and moved out of the house and renting a room from a friend now.
By then end of the month he came to visit me and it was magic when we saw each other. We had 5 days of intesity and love and it was wonderful. He met my family again after 20 years! I will always cherish those 5 days. But, on the 6th day i had to return to work and he stayed at my house all day, when I came home something was off and he was very distant. I tried to talk to him but he was so shut down and I was competely taken back by the 180! Up until that day he would tell me he loved me numerous times each day. When I asked what was going on he gave me a BS reason that it was hard for him to say goodbye and he was preparing for leaving (3 days prior!?) My gut was telling me he was lying to me. My instinct screamed that there was another woman. He couldn’t even make eye contact with me for any length of time. I asked him if he would prefer to stay at hotel, I was that uncomfortable,it felt like he didn’t even want to be there. that night something in me made me look in his cell phone. He was asleep and I snooped. He had 63 text messages from his “ex” wife and the last two read something along the lines of “please talk to me, your killing me” and “I will do anything to make this work, counseling, whatever you ask, I will do it”.
i instantly started shaking, my heart rate went through the roof. I went and woke him up and told him what I did, that I had snooped in his phone and I wanted to know why she was talking about counseling if they were divorced?! I asked if he was really divorced!? He was furious at me for “betraying his privacy” and immediately packed his things and left. He left without speaking to me again or saying good bye. I was so hurt and confused. Upon arriving back home, the first thing he did was delete me from the social network site. But my best friend, being a somewhat techie, found his ex on the same site and lo and behold, he had friended her the same day he deleted me. After getting back home he refused to accept my calls ( I only called twice) and then refused to respond to email. He broke up with me 2 days before I was to have surgery via Email stating that he didn’t trust me and I didn’t trust him, and “please don’t hate me, I don’t hate you”. HA!
Sorry so long. I have really been hurting over this. I totally bet on potential with this AC and trusted him way too quickly without having any actions to back it up. I feel used and thrown away. I can’t understand how someone he could tell me that he loved me and then treat me in such a manner that does not show love! I know I need to move on but it has hurt so much. I had been in doing no contact but I am not counting the days, so not sure how long it’s been. But the fact he could do all of this to me has hurt me deeply. I was doing great before he came into my life and was happier than i have been in a long time.
Thank you for your wonderful blog!!
I understand the draw of the past—my AC was my high school crush. We found each other after years and started a friendship via email. We had that for almost 8 years (he lives halfway across the country) when the tide changed. I was going through my divorce (nothing to do with him), he was saying how unhappy he was in his second marriage (a rebound one he said). I wasn’t looking for anything but after the “dark years” of the end of my marriage it seemed like walking into sunlight for the first time in ages. It was hot and heavy, then it turned cold, then hot. By that time I had made him the center of my happiness, scared to feel like a failure again after a failed marriage. So I kept betting on the potential of the early days. Finally broke free but still feel lost.
Left Wondering, we all want to believe the best of the people that come into our lives. You are to be commended that you listened to your “inner voice” and acted! (How I wish I did!!) You called him on his bs fast and kicked him to the curb!! You may feel used but remember how strong you are!
What a dreadful situation! I am sorry this happened to you. It sounds like he got caught up in escapism and self-grandeur (and a bit of mania), and then realized his own limitations and fears. He was obviously doing a number on his ‘ex’ too, and probably his ex before that. This sort of behaviour doesn’t crop up over night, so, as easy as it is for me to say right now, try not to be too confused about it because this sounds like he is a bit of a seasoned liar (mostly to himself and then to others), is in the habit of playing around with people to satiate his own ego needs and impulses, and lost the ability to match words and actions some time ago, well before he resumed contact with you (and, yes, I have borrowed many of these concepts from this site!! ; )). I imagine he believed his own hype for some time, and then reality caught up on him, as it will again when, in some small moment in time, he recognizes probably just for a second (before suppressing) that he was a true pr*ck to you. That’s just so unnecessarily callous and awful. I imagine it will take a fair bit of time for you to come out of the fog of it all, what @Leslie calls the mummified state. But, in the meantime, hold onto that thread that recognizes that you were very happy before him. You will get back to that when you get out of the fog. In some ways, he has made the task less difficult (though not in other ways, of course) because he is one of the biggest ACs I have read about on this site. Hopefully, makes it easier for you to let go and get on with healing…You will DEFINITELY be happier without him.
I’m sorry you had a bad experience with your ex from the past. He sounds like a real child and used your actions (looking at his phone) to excuse his slimy behavior. I also had an ex from high school (20 years) look me up last year and say similar stuff to me. I was in the midst of being jerked around by my AC at the time and thought this might be perfect timing. We met up, he drove 2 states to come camping with me and some friends. We never became physical besides a kiss, but he went on and on how much respect he had for me, never forgot me, always thought we’d end up together, regretted losing contact with me years ago. I was a bit blown away by all this, but my “GUT” said, something stinks here. Of course I didn’t ask too many questions as not to seem nosy. We did have fun and about a month later he said let’s get together again and gave me some dates that would work for him. We agreed on a certain weekend and I asked for the time off. He was sending me gifts through the mail and emailing me everyday. All of a sudden he didn’t return my emails for two weeks when he was all hot and heavy just before. When he finally did, just days before we were supposed to get together he said his teenage son was acting up and he couldn’t make it. This happened again about 6 months later. My gut was right after all and after realizing it, I really lost all interest. Of course soon as I did, he started texting and emailing like a crazy fool. Now he just looks pathetic to me. He has even starting future faking. Looking back, he wasn’t that great of a boyfriend when I was a teenager. My ego was stroked that he would remember me after all these years (and I was desperate for some validation), but he didn’t contact me after all these years because I was so memorable, it was for his own dysfunctional distraction from whatever was going on in his life at the time. If I was so special, he wouldn’t have played this stupid game with me. He was full of crap. I bought it for a moment but realized he wasn’t worth wasting another minute on. Don’t waste any more time on this fool from your past, he has shown you his true colors.
@left wondering
I feel for you. And as you can see many other women here, we have made mistakes. Don’t punish you so much. It was him who did wrong, and yes, maybe it wasn’t right to look a his cellphone but after him proffesing you soo much love and then changing, he should be a little understanding of your mistake. But no, this AC man, will use that mistake as a banner or excuse to hate you and put you down. I was done the same, but in my case I corrected his children and he used it as a cop out, saying “nobody mistreat my children”. I did not misstreat them, he just wanted out and he needed to find a way to not feel so guilty and blame it on me. I love kids, and I know I wasn’t mean, they needed to be corrected. Anyway, just felt like sharing this so you don’t feel like I did, feeling awfull and regreting every move I did. You know we are human also and we did forgive a lot to this AC, but they don’t want to see it, they just see what they want to see.
And the other woman, they are getting exactly the same.
thanks allie so much
it was those last parting words, yelled at me in anger. I did wrong, even if I immediately told him, but in trying to be honest about my actions and not yelling back, I was really trying to understand, and reconnect with him before he was to leave. I had the intention of having real communication about it with him, he didn’t want to express emotions or communicate with me though. It was strange, but the way he turned it around on me and then put on the silent treatment felt so punishing. Then not even calling to end it. He didn’t want to allow me a voice! He controlled all aspects of communication
After he walked out. I hate it had to end that way, so mean.
I felt the need to look in his phone for “answers”.That right there was a red flag. I have asked some friends about the seriousness of this invasion of privacy (never did this before) and they said once was forgivable offense, but certainly he blew up over it.
I can certainly understand wanting answers when they suddenly change like that or if you feel suspicious. I was guilty too of invading my ex-husband’s privacy (we were married at the time), looking at his emails, and my doubts were confirmed.
I think this relates to what Natale is saying about making them the sole source of our happiness. The snooping is part of how we focus so much on them, we find ourselves acting in ways (such as invading privacy) that take away from our integrity and worth, leaving us feeling ashamed at stooping so low.
I learned alot from the relationship with my ex-husband about how unhealthy snooping is for me. I finally realized that if I have to give up my life to play detective, then it’s not much of a relationship to begin with.
I still made other mistakes with my last AC ex-boyfriend. I found this site after we ended things, but it has been a great source of comfort and insight for me.
reading this was very helpful for me, I can see now that part of my sadness in due to the dissapointment in myself for putting aside my character qualities and compromising my integrity and word, I was wrapped up in my gut instinct and felt he wasn’t being honest with me….can’t go back and change it now! I felt much shame when he walked out. But, apologies never get past the silent treatment anyway.
Very good post! I have been working on loving myself unconditionally for the past year now and for the most part I have discovered I am a pretty awesome person.
Hi Natalie,
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I feel very lucky to have found this blog as I’m getting out of a 3 year relationship with the type often described in this blog. It was so good to read these words about self worth and that it’s not a matter of life and death that the relationship is (finally) over. I’m 30 year old, easy on the eye and well educated, there will be plenty of options later on,when I’m ready and have actually dealt with my own commitment issues. It’s a real eye opener seeing that I would have never given him the time of day if my self esteem and self worth would have been in place when I met him.
Now I’m going on a personal journey that has NOTHING to do with him… just ME.
Thank you again, excuse my English , I’m your fan from ReykjavÃk Iceland
hugs…
Icequeen.
My experience is that….. if someone is meeting your needs, and actually PARTICIPATING in the relationship, then your happiness won’t be dependent on them. You won’t be “needy.” You only turn “needy” when you hook up with an A/C. For some reason, A/C’s have this “power” to turn you into a needy wimp. Some do it overtly, and some do it COVERTLY. This won’t make sense, but the COVERT ones are much worse than the “overt” ones. With the “overt” ones, you figure it out soon. The COVERT ones, you don’t know what hit you until it’s too late. The “overt” A/C’s, usually nobody else likes them, either. The “covert” A/C’s, they are the charmers, they volunteer here and there, people say they are “such a nice guy…,” but they don’t seem to have any close friends, and they spiral you down.
If you find yourself being “needy” in a relationship, it MAY not be you. Could be, but might be the guy is an A/C and it’s time to re-evaluate and maybe decide to leave.
I agree. AC behavior is insane. And the insanity is contagious.
Thank you so much Elle and ChiTownKitty
I appreciate your comments! My challenge each day is to pull myself out of this head trip! I realize it is up to me to find clarity on this and understand what part I played and allowed for this to happen. I think it easy for me to beat myself up over it, yet, don’t feel these AC’s have any remorse and I was hurt on a level that I haven’t felt in a long time. Does he even care? I wonder if he will ever realize the pain he inflicted on me?
I allowed myself to “go there” with him and was vulnerable and trusting, and I still feel really wounded. But, I know in time I will heal and get to a place of feeling neutral and hopefully take away from this something positive, although, at present it feels like it will take quite a while for that to occur. It’s like he took a piece of me and I am struggling to recover that piece.
I was happy before him, and I will be happy again…I am just not very happy at present.
I love this site and thank you so much for your words and input. It does help me so much right now!!
@Left Wondering
My A/C took a piece of me, too! Took a big piece of my heart. Fortunately, he didn’t take any money or anything and didn’t cheat on me, but he had all the other Passive Aggressive signs and was pretty much emotionally unavailable. It’s been 7 months and I’m still trying to get over him.
Left Wondering, and all who are reading:
I know how you feel – wish I didn’t! And so do many others here, if not all of us. I wish you well and hope for your speedy recovery.
It occurs to me reading your last comment that the person who is capable of appreciating the hurt he has inflicted, or care about it, is the person who would not inflict that kind of hurt in the first place.
This, I think, is for me the hardest thing to get my head around with my EUM…so I also find it hard to think that he is actually incapable of the kind of feeling I think he should have, even as a bog basic human being, with some modicum of empathy, never mind anything as else!
Because of this ‘bad connection” in my own head, I am still not completely convinced that I can be happy without him – I know it intellectually, but not emotionally… and trying to appreciate that he cannot understand the hurt I feel, and have felt for so long, just doesn’t yet compute with me -because he is so clever and astute in so many other ways, and quite impressively so… but I do know on some level that the man who would put me through this shit is not the man who would care about doing it, or about its effect on me.
I am yet to truly believe that I can be happy with someone else because I do not want anyone else! (perhaps I can be content in some way with myself alone; that I accept; I can be alone, and probably be less miserable that way!!) So telling me, as many have done, that I could be happier with someone else is like talking to me about another planet I might like to live on better than this one, except no-one has even discovered that planet yet!… what meaning can that hold for me when the only planet I know and want is the one I am on… I think that is why when we realise that this man (A/C or EUM) has to go and go for good, we feel like it’s the end of the world… in many ways it is the end of ‘our world’ (as we know it)… so, I suppose the message from this blog is that we should make oursleves – not him – our world; we should live on our OWN planet – not leave it to go live on planet Zorg; where he is from!!
Yes, I probably am going completely bonkers now – had a bad day about it all! Sorry.
@Fearless – I understand how you feel. I am not in that headspace at the moment, but I have been there, (and I did have another busy early morning of flashbacks in my sleep to some of my AC’s harsh words – really trying to work on letting that all go). Anyway, I think, like many beliefs, it is a leap of faith, this exploration to and on ‘planet me’ and, the fact is, we might not ever meet someone wonderfully suitable to share it with. There are things we can do to increase our chances – firstly not being tied up with an AC/EUM, and then all the other emotional and practical things – but these things can’t always be helped. Either way, I suspect a bit of free-falling faith is required since I am not sure there is a dead certain reason for trying it out. I am more seeing it as something I haven’t tried before and worth sussing out ; ). You can do it! You’re already doing it. xx
@ fearless
Ohh I really understand you fearless. My ex was so smart and in other ways trying hard to do what is right but why couldn’t he see my feelings?
And I sometimes get agravated at people teling me “you deserve better” , “he ain’t good” . Of course if I though he wasn’t good I wouldn’t have dated him for one year and a half. And to be honest nobody that I know around me seems good, they are lazy or cheaters or soo uneducated. It seems hard to find someone else, guess I will have to leave the rest of my good looking life alone, I don’t want to, but at the same time can’t go back to him and him not caring about me and putting me on the very bottom of his priority list.
You know sometimes memories come to my mind and really try to avoid the hurtfull ones because anger creates resentment and that is not good on your heart. Its better not to hate them. Just forgive them and forgive yourself.
@Fearless
“the person who is capable of appreciating the hurt he has inflicted, or care about it, is the person who would not inflict that kind of hurt in the first place.”
Your words were very powerful for me this morning. Thank you.
It’s amazing the support that is shared and shown here in the comments from women I don’t even know, yet, we share this famiilar pain of loving and being hurt. It is wonderful to have the chance to reflect and be introspective and share my feelings and also receive such great feedback and honesty.
I considered my AC/EUM to be very clever and intelligent person and gave him entirely too much credit for being intellectually smart but not the person that would care for me or my heart. Maybe one day I will learn to recognize the difference! Maybe that is why this happened to me?
I really encourage you to take a look at the “bad connection” in your head of why you can’t see that you are worthy of the effort to create your own happiness, you can and will be if you will give yourself the time to just BE and experience everything that you are feelings fully and slowly & get more clarity to move on from the pain. I keep seeking out the source of my pain, and I remind myself daily and i hope it will begin to change. The mind patterns are hard to break!
Accepting and loving myself fully is a challenge, and I am only beginning to understand how I treat myself is vital to finding peace not just on this issue, but any and all issues and challenges in my life.
When I was falling for him I felt intense emotional highs and some one else described it as like stepping into sunshine. I noticed that my normal feelings felt lack luster after he left. I understand how you feel in that you can’t convince yourself of finding happiness right now with someone else, and I am at the same place because I can’t even convince myself I will be happy TODAY, much less wth anyone tomorrow! I will be taking a long time out just to recover from this and find myself again, so that I can be truely open and availabe for a real quality relationship in the far future.
you are not alone in this Fearless.
Fearless-
“the person who is capable of appreciating the hurt he has inflicted, or care about it, is the person who would not inflict that kind of hurt in the first place.”
Exactly what I needed to hear today. I just got a lecture from my boss, telling me to play nice with my former assclown at work. I had been completely blanking him for the past 10 days and people were starting to notice and complain. I had wrestled all day with whether or not to forgive (but not forget) or just let it go and get past it, as everyone wants. Something inside kept screaming no. I am not ready to deal with him on a daily basis. My boundaries are not as strong as I would like, I am not as secure as I need to be to let him back into my life. He has not (and never will) apologized or held himself accountable for the hurt and confusion he caused me. Anyone who cannot see the havoc he is wrecking in someone else’s life isn’t an emotionally safe person and that isn’t what I need.
For years, I have been the good girl, caring about others needs and wants. Now, for the first time, I am thinking about me, what I need and want and for now, this is what I need. Everyone else can just get over it.
Dee, for what its worth; I think you are quite right. Everyone else just wants things to be comfortable – for them. You are responsible for your own happiness and sometimes you need to insist on the right to protect yourself from people who mean you no good (as NML says). Ifyour boss doesn’t like it, tell him/her that’s what you’re doing – protecting yourself from on-coming traffic! Your boss also has a duty of care to you while you’re at work.
I think maybe men in these situations are extremely limited in their capacity to give, they can barely give to themselves emotionally let alone you and others if they exist. If we can be in a relationship with a single person and deal with our baggage, then we deserve someone who does the same. There’s no point writing ourselves off because we were with someone who was so limited. It’s time to find the love inside again, and then the outside will follow if we want it to.
Your ‘clever and astute’ description moved me because it was what I lived by,what I repeated to myself with my awful ex.’ How could someone who apparently felt things so deeply treat me like this?’ yeah? Answer. He did. There is no need for any other answer.
I wanted to also say, give feedback that my new relationship is going really well…that I truly feel that I can fall in love again,that it is possible… Fearless one thing I worked out,maybe you’ve already worked this out…. is that I needed to feel true anger about what happened before I could move on. How we express anger is different for everyone. I needed to be listened to while I ranted. I needed to work it through for me. Not for him. He was toast. What I mean is by not getting angry, justified anger I think we, as women. naturally go over and over situations,have flashbacks,ruminate,search for solutions. I did it for so long until I did justified anger. It helped me move on. I ‘m sorry you were having a bad day,it’s bereavement isn’t it.? You will love again. I hope you feel better today xxx Lesley
It’s amazing how many of us have similar experiences. It is good to support eachother as it helps us move on in our lives. Time really does help and is our friend believe it or not. I was involved with an A/C for ten months. He was very controlling only because I allowed him to be. I met him at a time when I was feeling sorry for myself and he seemed to snap me out of it at the time. I thought that I was only happy when I was with him and come to think of it, I was happy. He entertained me and distracted me from me. I let my own weakness get the best of me and eventually saw what I was doing to myself.
So I ignored him and he moved away just like that. It was really strange and I felt sad and alone at first. I had panic attacks and suffered from depression and anxiety which was really not like me. I kept driving past his house and walking past his desk at work. I had my own pity party and wallowed in it. Oh the drama!! How dumb I feel now, and I chuckle at myself even because I am embarrased at my actions. I am a much stronger person and I am not going to beat myself up over this. We are human and we make mistakes, and I have certainly made many in my life. Learn from them and move on. Be kind to yourself though. Writing down your thoughts really helps and then send them into the shredder. Don’t play the blame game. Learn from the experience and be thankful that you still have you. Remind yourself that you are a good person, shouting it as you are driving down the highway. Listen to happy songs on the radio and change the station if that sad love song plays. Take care of you.
Make your life a happy one as it is the only one you will get.
Good Luck 🙂
Thank you so much for all your kind – and wise – replies everyone. It helps a lot. It also makes me want to cry that, as someone also said, people I don’t even know give me more support and understanding here about all of this crap I am feeling than my EUM has ever done, and he is “supposed” to give a shit!!
Elle, funnily enough, I did think a lot about the ‘leap of faith’ idea on my way to work this morning efor I even read your post (spoooky!)… am sure you are right.. we just have to take the advice and what we know to make complete sense from NML’s blogs and from friends etc… and ‘Just Do It’, stop mulling it over, stop doubting, stop fighting with it, stop looking for someone else to make it happen, make us “happy” and just take the leap and see what happens (it can’t be any blinking worse!) Good advice. Thanks.
Thanks allie and Leslie Binnie. I think the problem is I forgive him to easily!I can’t ever stay mad at him for long – about a month is my top, then I just wear myself out with anger, get upset and miserable and want to see him again! I used to think, ‘if I can just stay angry… I won’t go back” but that doesn’t work, not in the long term.
And Becky – you are so right. We are a long time dead, so we had better depend on oursleves for our own happiness.
Thanks everyone and thanks NML for all the posts here. You are all so kind and helpful. You all deserve the best. Many of you here are still young. (I often feel these lessons have come too late for me – am in my late forties – but I am still good-lookin! So be happy with you – you are wonderful people. Stop throwing your time away on these tossers! Sorry if I went off topic….
Left wondering. I know the theory! Intellectually I know exactly what I think and what all this is about… but my emotions are yet to catch up with my head. I concur; I can’t convicne myself to be happy today, never ind with someone else in the future!! I am obviously looking too far ahead… “one day at a time sweet Jesus… and all that). Thanks for your thoughts.
Hi,
I’m so glad I found this site, it’s making me feel normal, and lucky in some ways after my last few months. My EU/AC turned up in my life and said that he’d spotted me across the room and felt instantly drawn, and as I got to know him felt he was my soulmate as the connection was the most amazing I’d had. He was honest and upfront in saying that he had an extremely busy job and was moving through a separation from his ex but was still living there to ease the transition for the kids. We clicked in dozens of ways but it seemed like we spent a lot of our relationship managing the transition for when he would be able to complete his old life and create ours properly. It was hard as the connection was so strong, I knew he was unavailable, but he did give me a time line, its just my emotions didn’t enjoy the ride that much. He is a gifted salesperson professionally and think he used all his charm to keep me going, throwing me crumbs and putting in valiant efforts when I got sick of the sparse availability, him not being able to make commitments when I wanted but just squeezing me in, feeling completely hot then absent and so on. The hardest part I think is I told him upfront that I was nearly 40 and wanting kids in a committed relationship. I abstained from having a sexual relationship with him for many months, as I didn’t want to be the other woman. He respected this although the intensity became stronger and stronger so the kisses and cuddles became harder to resist. Having seen him many times come back with energy whenever I needed reassurance, I was sure he was good for the long haul. I decided to jump in and begin the sexual relationship, but that I did not want to mess up my hormones that were so desiring, and I would let a a child come if destined. He was the first person in my life that said yes to having a child with me and we planned our first night together. It happened and I conceived. It was hard because he was still so unavailable but I’d been conditioned to this. My body kicked into overdrive of early pregnancy symptoms and I told him and he seemed happy but wanted me to be 100% sure (it was too early to test). About the 3rd week I bled and miscarried. In all that time we’d seen each other once and he still wasn’t convinced I was pregnant. He reassured me all was still on track and we’d have another chance in a few months. My return to normality wasn’t easy and I needed him. I tried to contact him a few days later and his replies were matter-of-fact, not openhearted. Then he just dropped out. Silence. Two weeks later still silence. No reply to numerous messages but can confirm he is alive. Was it all too much? The fantasy ended and he didn’t want the reality? More going on at home than he let on (probably!) Why go silent though? Is he a spin doctor AC of the worst kind or just emotionally unavailable? I know I need to let him go but my hormones are not there yet. Feedback welcome, thanks, Dianna
You need to grasp the reality of the situation. He is LIVING WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND/WIFE AND KIDS.
Take it from there.
Grace is quite right, Dianna. That is the reality.
He was not honest and upfront. Honest and up front is this: I am going to use my job as an excuse to keep you at arms length and I am married (partnered?) with children. Are you up for some of that crap?
I suggest you get reading the rest of NML’s blogs – particularly those on being the OW (other woman) and those on the EUM.
I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks so much Grace and Fearless
I agree with your views. He often said that when I appeared in his life he didn’t want to risk losing me, even thought he knew his life wasn’t ready. I knew about the ex and kids all along, it was more that in my naivety I painted a different picture, as he’d said that they had separate lives, and had discussed separation but hadn’t finalised it yet. He thought he could manage the timing and I just had to be patient. Yesterday after posting this my girlfriend rang him (as he had been avoiding my contact) and said that he sounded terrified and sad. Couldn’t deal with his emotions, too used to being in control. Clearly the ramifications of leaving the ex and kids were more than he’d bargained for. Lesson learned. I’d never been with anyone still living with the ex before so learned the hard way, that ‘it’s not over til its over’. I guess all my former partners to some extent though have been unavailable (otherwise I’d be in a great relationship), so that must make me the same. I can see that growing up, my dad was emotionally absent and I was trying to find someone just like him but that somehow it would end up different, to give my childhood pain validation!!! It’s crazy what we do because of our wounding. I hope we can all find happy, easy, relationships and leave this phase behind us. Thanks again for your support, Dianna
Sorry to harp on about this, but you need to stop thinking about her as his ex. She isn’t his ex. She is his girlfriend/wife. Living with someone means they are not your ex.
I am not juding you at all, I have been there myself. The first step back to sanity is to see a situation for what it is, not how he has painted it and not how you want to see it.
@Dianna,
I don’t mean to be brutal, but you seem to have adopted the language of this man and it is, I think, getting in the way of your understanding of the situation, (and perhaps, ultimately, your taking control of your own happiness).
He doesn’t have an “ex”, other than you. He has a wife and children. The only “separation” he is working through is the one he is now engineering with you.
I bet he would sound “terrified and sad”! But not for the reasons you think. or assume. Now that you have your friends calling him up, he is terrified. Terrified for himself, that, as you say, this is getting out of his control . Terrified that his wife could find out about it all… I wonder how horrified she would be to discover she is the “ex” who is going through a “separation” with him. I am betting that’ll be news to her!
You could try listening to what he DOES and ignore what he says, as he has been pulling the wool over your eyes. Words are cheap and often just fakery. Actions never lie.
He doesn’t need your sympathy or understanding – YOU DO. He is not the poor wee troubled soul here – YOU ARE. Happiness lies in focusing your understanding on yourself, seeing the reality and movig from there, I think.
All the best.
Thanks again for the feedback Grace and Fearless.
You’re right, she is not the ex. Having that clarity immediately creates different boundaries around even being willing to get together with someone… don’t believe what he says, believe what is so. I know she was not told about me, it bemuses me that the woman can think she’s in a relationship and the man can be there with a totally different idea – applies to both her and I, I’d say. (He said they were never married btw). No doubt their illusion will continue and at least I’ve been cut free, albeit painfully. If I was clear about all these dynamics as expressed on this site, I never would have started it… I wasn’t clear, he wasn’t clear, he probably never will be, I am learning fast (thanks to you all!). It doesn’t mean I have to hold any grudges though, I don’t think it was malicious… not to be blindsided by his crap either, but to just ensure now that I get over it and learn what I need to, to never make this mistake again. Thanks again, Dianna
My heart goes out to you because of what you are going through but what made you think he was in it for the long haul? he was already in it for the long haul with another woman, and his family. He isn’t inhuman
but he is very flawed. You need to see him as better than he is to keep
yourself from insanity…let yourself see him for what he is, keep on this site…its going to hurt but better that than waste the rest of your life. Sorry to be brutal,you need to really read the posts on this site and NML’s articles.
Hi Lesley
Thanks again for the feedback. I have been reading the articles on this site, only been here a couple of days though and this is all still really raw. I thought he was in it for the long haul, I must admit, mostly because he kept telling me he was. But in terms of actions, I guess because when we opened our sexual relationship he was willing for me to conceive right away. It had been talked about for a while, he could have walked away many times, but was open. It’s really hard to deal with, that when we were there together on the night, I was saying things like ‘you know that means if I become pregnant we’re together forever on some level’ (no guarantee a relationship will work out of course) and ‘now’s your chance to go if you don’t really want this with me’ and then we basically make love and I get pregnant and later miscarry and then he disappears soon after. Why on earth would a man be willing to get a girlfriend on the side pregnant if he didn’t, even in fantasy, see her in his plans? Why would he bother? He’s flawed but he’s not a complete idiot. Or is he… and he got so embarassed that he simply had to vanish to save face? Still, it’s plain obvious that another child would have committed him on various levels and he spoke about his kids and how much he cared for them and spent time with them, a lot. Can someone be that reckless? Or just realised they made a huge mistake? Thanks again, Dianna
I feel oddly compelled to say something more about Dianna’s latest comment to Lesley Binnie. (Hope I am not straying too much off topic; I hope this discussion re Dianna’s experience helps us to see how easily we do sabotage our own happiness, and our own responsibility for it, by putting it – lock, stock and barrel – into the hands of a man way to soon. I think Dianna’s story highlights how we can place too much faith and trust in what we think is motivating our man/our date to say and do the things he does – way before he has remotely begun earned that trust.
@Dianna,
I think you have assumed the motivation for his words and actions are coming for the same place as your own. You have, as we tend to do, attach our own meanings to them according to what we hope and want to be true.
Firstly, you can discount what he says unless it is backed up by action. Lots of men let us think they are in it for the ‘long haul’ when they are not. They are in it for ‘the moment’. Everyone looking for advice on this site has most likely experienced this problem: actions not in sync with words; he does the complete opposite of what he says (I’m sure NML has a blog on this).
Here’s how I see your experience with this man: He was motivated by the chase. Lots of men are. Yes he was “open”. He was open to having sex with you. Yes he could have walked away anytime. He wanted sex. He got it. He has walked away now. You have failed to see that your “anytime” was not the same as his: Yours was before the sex – his was after the sex!
Once they have “won”, they lose interest. He has got you into bed; on whatever pretext (in this case that he’d be fine with getting you pregnant!), and now, for him, the chase is over. It’s not rocket science.
Be glad, be very glad, you are not now pregnant to this man because, yes, he was reckless, completely and utterly so – and reckless with YOUR life – take note: not reckless with his!
He was not “willing to get you pregnant” (like a really nice man would be??!!!). He was not “bothered” if you got pregnant; that is not actually a good thing, Dianna!
Why would he bother, you ask in your comment. Bother to do what? Bother to be “willing” to get you pregnant?! Bother to have sex? Of course he’ll bother have sex with you… that’s what he’s been hanging around for! Now that he has had it, all you know is that he is not “bothered” now!
And the rest (your pregnancies etc) would be your problem – and the proof of the pudding is: the rest WAS your problem! He didn’t/doesn’t want to know anything about your pregnancy – or your miscarriage. That’s how reckless and selfish he is.
Finally, another child would not necessarily have “committed” him to you or the child on ANY level at all (there are, sadly, thousands of women out there who can vouch for that! I am one of them). Again, you have listened to him “tell” you how much he “cares” for his kids… No, he does not… or he would not be risking their welfare (and potentially that of another) by his reckless behaviour with you. Again, his actions do not match his words. Which do you believe? What he has told you or what he is doing? (rhetorical questions).
I was in similar position many years ago with a “lovely” guy…he was sweetness itself, an all open, all loving, all affectionate guy who really “cared” for his kids… At the same time he was sleeping with me – on the side – talking about our future together….he was also arranging a vasectomy…
Yes, they are that reckless, Dianna. Sad but true. The sooner you see it/him for what he/it is, the sooner you will take charge of your own welfare and happiness and not make yourself vulnerable by blindly trusting that your own personal value system also applies to whomever you are dating.
All the best to you. Sorry to be harsh. But… honeslty. This man is a scoundrel.
Thanks heaps Fearless
It’s so interesting, I have been inherently aware of men who lose interest after sex, so this was the first ‘relationship’ (if you could call it that!) where I did not give in to that urge early on. He expressed interest straight away and in the end it was over 3 months before it happened. Took the time to get to know him and in my naivety took all his agreeable words that we had a high level of compatibility. Somehow even thought that his situation was a good thing because it meant we had to build solid foundations and get to know each other because it was too early to act. It’s amazing how you build your own fantasy, isn’t it! It’s likely if you make a man wait 3 months it’ll drive him crazy so sadly he probably just agreed to anything. I wonder what this is like in a healthy relationship. I guess waiting until your lives are rolling along smoothly together is paramount, but I do find this stage difficult to negotiate as men will still tend to put more effort in before sex happens. How do you find the ones that want to keep coming back and share your value system and desire for family and children? Especially when you’re nearly 40 so baggage levels out there are a lot higher. My hormones are strong now too, especially after a miscarriage, so it’s hard to go back to that mindset in my 20’s of ‘I have all the time in my world’. My body wants a baby and wants it now… is this recipe for disaster or are there real men out there that feel the same? So many women my age miss out on having children, I have been thinking… would I go it alone if it doesn’t happen in time? I was half prepared that if his only role was sperm donor and things didn’t work out, it’s still better than zero. Sad but true. I want it all and want to share it all but how to have this? Suggestions much appreciated and welcomed, you all rock!!! Dianna
Hi Dianna,
I so wanted to convey that I don’t think that you are mad, or entirely deluded and that I empathise with you so much. I think it’s fearless’ post which says that ‘in the moment’can be all for a man, I honestly feel that they feel that they are in love during these moments and we hear and start to build a future on these moments. What happened to you has also happened to me in terms of the loss of a child to a man whose words indicated one thing and whose transparent actions indicated another. This is why to return to the article’s good sense is so important….you can absolutely become pregnant is it’s what you want,feel ready for and I ‘m sure can decide that for yourself, after much deliberation. But motherhood, and I ‘m a mum does tend to link you to the child’s father,would it be a good thing to have such’recklessness’ in a child’s life?. I am in my early forties and my son is twenty and I was always, still am careful about who I introduced into his life. What I am saying
is care for yourself first and forever, you should come first to you…this will benefit both you and any future child you will have. A man who disappears after he may have got you pregnant is a loser…we can make all the excuses in the world but its staring you in the face. Stay strong, reflect, care for yourself …things will become clearer. Stay in touch…thinking of you Dianna Lesx
Wow, Lesley, I just had the most powerful realisation. For the short time I was pregnant I was so happy because I was so ‘in love’ with him (or my vision of who I thought he was), and the child seemed like the greatest gift.
But if he shot through and the AC prevailed, that would be so hard to have a child, who reminds you of him every day. It’s hard enough now letting him go, let alone if there was a newborn to repeat the reminder. Of course it’s instinctive to want your children’s father to have good genes, and in his case it was CEO of multimillion dollar company, amazing personal energy levels, the most spatially aware and highly intelligent conversational person I’ve met, good listener, insightful, witty, gifted.. things I was happy for my child to have. But how bittersweet would that be if he didn’t do the right thing. I am still struggling to understand why common decency is so difficult for him. While I was pregnant and in my own space I felt so good but as soon as I tried to contact him there would be stress – not getting back to me for hours, no time in his schedule, etc. I know after your post why I miscarried now – he would have definitely shot through and I would definitely be doing it alone (like the thousands of women pregnant to a man who is unavailable) and it would be SO hard to look into that child’s eyes every day and see him and wish it was different. Sperm donor sounds so peaceful in comparison, if there’s no other way! Did you feel your man was ‘exceptional’ and you just had to get used to him? I now sense he is narcissistic – lost touch with reality due to living in such a highly demanding lifestyle for so long. I think it’s not the good qualities you have to focus on with someone, more managing the unevolved aspects – you are only as strong as your weakest link. I should have just looked at his weakest aspects and whether he was addressing them and if I saw this I would have known he was living in denial and purely putting his energy into what he was familiar with and was unwilling to truly grow. Therefore unwilling to be a partner. Love to hear your thoughts. Blessings to you, Dianna
Hi Dianna. I’m sorry to hear of what you have experienced. What I do know after coming across many women in your situation is to ensure that you see him in a full picture but also that the qualities that you admire them for actually translate into something positive for you in the relationship. We often admire men for possessing all sorts of qualities that when it gets down to it, don’t matter a damn because they are of no benefit to you. Those skills serve him well in business and in general life but they did you and your relationship no good. The right thing is only how we see the right thing because from his perspective, it wasn’t the right thing because he wasn’t present and accountable for the relationship, child or no child. You were riding solo and what I do know is that coming across so many women in the same situation, pregnancy should not be the way that you discover whether someone will or won’t do the right thing.
Thanks heaps NML
I’m a very spiritual person so believe the whole experience was a very powerful one, opening me up for something better. It is about sorting out what’s really important with a partner, and seeing yourself as whole and not changing your behaviour because of a man. I like Fearless’ post about the attachment types, and if I notice my friends who are secure, they don’t go into a different mode around their partner, they are natural and relaxed together and apart. I have had great difficulties as soon as it becomes sexual – then I tend to lose myself on some level, hormonally probably. I was actually going to ask you this in response to your post about dating tips… what about when the hormones have built up to a point that you’re thinking babies as soon as you meet someone, whether they’re right or not. I decided when I was 13 that I wanted kids by the time I was 20, then that became 25, then 30 and all the good ones seemed to be taken, then definitely by 35, now nearly 40 and it still hasn’t happened. My yearning has only increased, I feel like I’m so overripe it’s ridiculous. I know it pushes guys away but what can I do about it, I’m sure I’m not the only one who is finding that hormones are getting in the way of seeing clearly in relationships, even to the point now why I am still hanging on to the threads of the AC I was with, because it was hormonally satisfying (to a very limited extent). Honestly, I’ve had more women I know who didn’t mind if they had children meet someone and end up having them, and the ones with massive desire so often miss out or end up as a single mum with a half hearted or absent male (maybe feeling they have to take whatever they can get). I’d love to know how to manage this hormonal ride better to attract the right one! Thanks heaps, Dianna
@Cindy
Sorry to hear that about breaking NC. I’ve broken it so many times before. I’m trying not to be too hard on myself for doing it the last time, but I hope I never break NC again, I don’t want to seem desperate or give him another chance to use my emotions against me, or even use me, or for him to think that I am dependent on him.
But I saw my AC today while I was in a taxi. I fought myself, not to turn and look at him. I felt so anxious and miserable, the thought of seeing him hurts and makes me angry. But yet I still wanted to call, so I called a good friend of mine. I tried looking at it as some sort of sign, but I’m not sure what sign that is. I still have not heard from him since last Thursday. I prayed that I would not see him. But funny as it is he works in my area and I have to pass where he works on a daily basis, so I never can go one day without thinking of him. He seemed so happy and as though he does not have a care in the world, especially for me.
I think it has a lot to do with the rejection. I put myself in that position, now he doesn’t want me. But I try to remember that he would never appreciate me for the person I am. It hurts and annoys the hell out of me, but I try to keep busy, the quiet and stillness are the times I am most miserable and can not be alone. I know that isn’t healthy either because I am becoming obsessed and dependent on another object or people to keep me sane and not being able to find closure within myself.
I don’t know if I will ever hear from him again. I still check my phones for his calls. I still have him added on a social network, ridiculous I know, but I’ve removed him once, and then added him back. I can’t help but wonder if he saw me last time because it is a few weeks before his birthday. I use to think he would be a part of my life and he would make me happy, but I guess I was betting on potential, and he just didn’t have it.
I know my happiness is not dependent on him, but I need to change parts of my life so I can make myself happy.
Sensational post, Natalie! I had never thought of it that way but its certainly what happened. I gave away my power and made him my whole world. What an insane amount of pressure to put on anyone, much less an assclown. I am wrestling with all this again of late. I work side by side with my assclown and yet have had exactly one short, terse conversation with him in the 11 weeks we have been no contact. I feel childish and silly not talking to him and have been going back and forth about whether I can handle easing up on the hostility for a bit. I no longer feel I need resentment or anger for protection; I can set boundaries without staying mad. I also can’t help but feel that I am pretending to an indifference I don’t feel, although I am fairly certain he might. I have examined my motivations for doing this. I know that a real, equal, honest friendship is out of the question, as is the possibility of any future romantic relationship – neither of us has the slightest interest. I am just sick of the tension and stress of working with someone so closely that I literally can’t talk to. I don’t want or need chit-chat or anything personal but mistakes are being made because of a lack of communication and it just doesn’t feel professional or mature. I am not sure how to declare a truce, since we now just completely blank each other as a matter of course. I have learned so much from this site and other sources and now feel I can keep him at an appropriate distance, have no expectations (oher than that he will continue to be an assclown) and am realistic about the fact that the “friendship” or working relationship will not be anything like the relationship we used to share. If anyone has successfully done this and has any advice or experience to share, it would be very welcome.
As a matter of interest, I have been doing a bit of reading on adult attachment theories. I suspect that those of us who are inclined to make the ‘man in our lives’ (or woman) the source of all our happiness have what is called an ‘anxious’ attachment style.
These psychological theories make for interesting reading. Psychologists have long studied infant attachment theory (most notable Bowlby’s attachment theory) and have, since the late 1990s, furthered these studies to show that our experience of attachment to our primary caregiver in infancy and childhood can manifest itself in later life in particular adult attachment styles.
There are four subsets: Secure / Anxious-pre-occupied / dismissive avoidant / fearful avoidant.
Most of us reading a site such as this are likely Anxious – pre-occupied in our attachment style. The EUM/AC is definitely avoidant in his/her style! I am surmising the EU is mainly fearful-avoidant whereby the Assclown is mainly dismissive avoidant.
The fearful avoidant style has a desire for emotional attachment but also a fear of it – therefore all the blowing hot and cold!
The Anxious-pre-occupied attachment style is characterized by what NML has described here in this blog. We (I include myself!) tend to seek very close emotional relationships with a significant other and look to that other to validate our sense of self/and self-worth – we tend to want to ‘merge’ our sense of self with that of the singificant other; we are often viewed as clingy or needy; we are anxious and pre-occupied with the relationship; we seek constant re-assurance and re-affirmation of his love – often engineering ‘dramas’ and histrionics in order to seek validation; we are disproportionately fearful of the loss of the relationship, as it will be equated with a loss of ‘self.’ We have experienced, perhaps a number of times, the break-up of relationships on the grounds that we are ‘needy’.
NML is right on the money with this blog; it is in total accordance with the most recent studies into attachment styles… we need to address our own relationship behaviour.
Those who display secure attachment styles have the most healthy outlook on themselves and others. They have a high regard for self (independently of others) and have a high regard for others. Ergo, they don’t need any Tom, Dick or Harry to feel special (as NML says) they already know that they are! They have a secure sense of self and see the significant other as entirely independent of them – independent of their own sense of ‘self’. They don’t try to ‘merge’ their ‘self’ with the other.
Not surprisingly then, the prototypical anxious-pre-occupied style has a low sense of self and a high regard for others! Therein lies the problem! Just as NML repeatedly points out in her blogs.
Just as a matter of interest also, the dismissive avoidant type (A/C?) has a high regard for self and a low regard for others.
And the fearful avoidant (EUM?) has a low regard for self and a low regard for others.
I found this further reading interesting – maybe others will too.
“We (I include myself!) tend to seek very close emotional relationships with a significant other and look to that other to validate our sense of self/and self-worth – we tend to want to ‘merge’ our sense of self with that of the singificant other; we are often viewed as clingy or needy; we are anxious and pre-occupied with the relationship; we seek constant re-assurance and re-affirmation of his love – often engineering ‘dramas’ and histrionics in order to seek validation; we are disproportionately fearful of the loss of the relationship, as it will be equated with a loss of ‘self.’ We have experienced, perhaps a number of times, the break-up of relationships on the grounds that we are ‘needy’.
I just reread this and I have to add, my first decades long relationship was not perfect but was with a solid man and involved no drama.
When I got involved with the avoidant EUM/ AC ( yes he was both, and just as you describe) I became clingy, fearful and obsessed with him. And yes my happiness ( or lack therof) became tied up in the constant hope and drama that he would become stable and normal and then everything would be great and we would have a stellar relationship.
So, I guess my point is that I became a different person with him and certainly became anxious ! I now take full responsibility for my behavior with him, and thanks to time I have spent thinking, reading, writing, ( plenty of it here, thanks again everyone) I have done a lot of work to understand how I could have made a bad relationship so important to me.
Aphrogirl,
I know what you mean. I put myself into the anxious-preoccupied style, but I do not exhibit all the elements with all the men I have dated/been with, though I do most of them, if I am “allowed”!!
I am not physically clingy or needy in any physical or practical sense tho; in fact my “currently ex” EUM tells me I am ‘nicely independent” (I think he means “suitably”!), but I do recognise my emotional neediness and my need for validation.
However, I think my style has changed over the years with maturity. I have had to depend on myself, so I have become much less clingy/needy than I was when I was, say, nineteen… now like my own space etc.. and don’t like to be ‘engulfed’ or swamped by a man.
So these are not personality traits, as such, they are not rigid – though I suppose they can be very entrenched; also certain styles are more likely to change over time depending on a number of external factors – life experiences etc. or perhaps just by personal awareness etc..
I also think that now, as opposed to my younger days, if I was with a secure type of man, I would be a much more secure type of partner. So I suppose we also react to the person we are with. E.g. it would be pointless for me to be clingy with my EUM – he would run a mile!! So I suppress a lot of my natural tendencies, even the level of physical affection I would naturally show a more giiving partner… but I am wary of making him feel ‘uncomfortable’, especially in public! God forbid I should hold his hand walking down the street – now that would be a personal infringement of the most heinous proportions!! Hopeless crap. I know!
Fearless- I find it fascinating that, in the wake of a disasterous relationship, we get motivated to do so much reading and research about psychology, relationships and emotional disorders. I did the exact same thing – devoured everything I could find on commitment phobia and emotional unavailability (how I found this wonderful site). I tried everything I could to understand what had happened, why the relationship had fallen apart and what I could learn from it. But I do have to wonder if all this research, reflection and learning isn’t a way of staying stuck, of staying in the relationship even after it is long dead and gone. I have learned alot about me, about male-female interactions and all that is good, but at what point does all this research stop being about growth and fade back into the obsessive, not letting go clinging to a relationship that was never worth the time you were giving it while you were in it, much less the effort put in after the relationship is over. I am not in any way criticizing your efforts – they are identical to my own – I just am starting to hit the point where all this effort to understand and figure it out is beginning to seem pointless. If I learn my lessons from the relationship, use it as a catalyst for changing myself and holding myself accountable for my role in what happened, that should be enough. The rest is just a way of holding on when it is long past time to let go.
Sarah,
you are echoing my own recent thhoughts in your comment. I have thought about all that you have said already, and I think, yes, I need to plead guilty! Too much navel gazing and ‘figuring out’ can be just another way of ‘staying stuck’, and at what point does all of the ‘seeking to understand and recover’ and all the reading and reading and reading about it become just more EUM/AC obsession! I couldn’t agree with you more… and what you say is exactly what I am wary of…
I don’t pretend to have ‘moved on’. I know I haven’t; not even nearly. I am still tentatively in touch with my EUM… though I have not seen him for 6/7 weeks… we have been on and off for nine years… so those on this site who talk about months, or a year and a half etc..with their EUM/AC as a “long time” seem to me to be the lucky ones! And I’d like to say to you all: a few months or a year or two (especially if you’re still in your 20s or 30s) is nothing! So just walk! (not meaning to be glib about others’ experiences – I know it is v v hurtful no matter what).
I have used up the last ‘youthful’ years of my life betting on the potential of a man that I could tell early on had his ‘issues’ I knew he was emotionally challenged!…but only now have found names for them; and can now see what motivates his behaviour. But I have invested a great deal, so I find it v hard to be blase about it… I feel a terrible sense of loss and bewilderment (now that I am more clued up, my bewilderment now seeems to have shifted away from him – I know what his problems are now – on to me, who more and more realise has been, and still is, instrumental in my own downfall).
I do want out of this miserable cycle, but at the same time I don’t want to let him go…I cannot quite swallow the notion that my life will be better without him in it. I don’t really believe that. I could if I was twenty something or thirty something.. ! That’s my main problem, I think. I try to convince myself that my life will be better; but that is what I am doing “trying to talk myself round” and I am not consistently convincing myself. I sawy about from between hope and despair for my future, and, although I look good for my age, I cannot see how any man would choose me now over a younger option -they have more options; and I fear my chances for true lastiing love have passed me by… which makes me then think that he is better than the alternative.
I hope if I read enough about me and why it has to be like this, then maybe I will continue to convince myself more and more until I no longer need ny convincing!
Sorry for the grumble… am not in good place today.
Hi Fearless,
it doesn’t matter if you are 20 or 100, people find fulfilling relationships at all stages of life. My aunt chose never to get married or settle down and she has had the best life of all her siblings (my dad included) who had families. I think it is infinitely better to navigate life alone than to be badly accompanied. He is not the sole source of your happiness – he’s not even *A* source of happiness most of the time! You get used to these idiots being in your life, but if you think about it, you can lead a much more uncomplicated and carefree life without them, by deciding your own destiny and doing things that make you happy. Do we really miss them, or do we miss the drama?
I hope you feel better today. Your comments are always so strong and positive and have helped me when i’m having one of my down days.
@eyeswideopen
Once an assclown always an ass clown. They never change. The best thing you can do is move on. May be a hard pill to swallow but in the end you’ll be glad you did. Best of luck.
Fearless and jj – Many thanks for the comments. I have been reading the posts on this blog, looking for guidance, inspiration and help. Fearless – fascinating stuff and explains alot. It feels absolutely true to me. I am pre-occupied and needy, although I never thought of myself that way. I suspect my AC was fearful avoidant. Despite his seemingly huge ego, I always felt the scared litte boy underneath. I am sticking with NC for now, largely because I when I am honest with myself, I seem to still be invested somehow. In my mind, I get everything this site embodies and talks about: needing to focus on me, seeing my role and holding myself accountable. But for some reason, I still feel drawn to this man, and am pretending not to care when I really do. I seem to be having a very hard time accepting that he no longer does care. I am pretending my indifference, while he is actually feeling his. I see now that I should no longer turn that into a statement of my worth or value as a person and I no longer feel crushingly rejected by it. I had a really hard time staying grounded in reality during the relationship and kept thinking it was more than it was. I am not clear why, on some level, I still want acknowledgement from this person. I clearly need to dig deeper and keep working on me, but I thank you for your thoughts.
FWIW, you may never know if he cares, and he may never really know, that is what emotionally unavailable means. A painful variation of EUM is avoidants who tend to dismiss. Dismissive behavior always seemed rude and heartless to me but I have come to see it as a coping style that probably works for them.
As far as work goes, I work with my ex as a peer, ( though he tried to pull rank on me when we first split up) and we will likely work together for many more years. He is not an AC, thank god, and not the man who got me to this site. But working with any ex takes some effort.
What helps me is to notice whenever there is an undercurrent of a power struggle and try to look at and take the emotion out of the situation. The focus is always back to the job to be done, and like all work, doing the best job I can do. There is no place for blame, criticism or fault finding.
I do not expect emotional intimacy with a coworker, nor the special, extra kind consideration and attention that lovers give each other, so that is another thing I keep in mind when it gets hard. Nor do we expect our coworkers to make us happy, though they often can make us miserable !
In a way working like this requires a pretty big level of maturity so, though it is hard it offers another growth opportunity. Just stay true to being good to you and spending free time with kind, capable, mature people. Good luck.
@ Fearless
Your post was very enlightening and it inspired me to look more closely at the four subsets and I was able to see myself in the Anxious – pre-occupied / needy category too. I then found some interesting posts on personality disorder and maladaptive thought processes which I read.
I have this strong desire to “figure things out” and “understand” and I hate it. It’s just a stupid break up!! He’s a worthless piece! I want to drop all my thoughts of the AC and everyday I wake up (or worse, dream!) about him. I don’t know where I got off track with myself! But I still keep looking to understand what the heck just happened to me and my part in it. When you really take the time, it can be a big undertaking. I have cried so much in the last few days. It’s not just about how you can make someone the center of your happiness, but I guess for me, not even realizing fully you are doing it and to the extent that it can play out varies for each of us.
Wow, what an article! Natalie, you described me to a “T”! I have been through all those scenarios and emotions. How foolish I was to think that my past Emotionally Unavailable men would change and love me unconditionally. The harder I tried the worst things got and in the end they would break up with me. The last one was someone only relied on texting to communicate and in the end he just faded into thin air with no explanation as to why. I am taking the time to love myself unconditionally without looking to a man to validate me. I am very happy to have found your website and your articles! They are filled with wisdom! Keep up the great job!