“Hooks will become your ‘blind spots’ because they affect your ability to see the person in their entirety because you instead, allow these hooks to carry so much weight that they distort your perception of the relationship, them and even you….We latch or ‘hook’ ourselves onto something and then based on being attracted to it, we correlate it to the rest of the person and assume that they will possess other qualities and characteristics that someone we believe is ‘right’ for us will possess.”
While I will be doing a separate post to further discuss ‘unhooking’ yourself, it’s important to understand how you use potential to get hooked.
Over the years I’ve warned many women in particular, of the perils of betting on potential.
This is where you bet on the potential of what you think someone could be based on behaviour that they may have briefly exhibited at the beginning of the relationship or you bet on the potential of characteristics and qualities that you assume they have. You’re either stuck in the past wondering why they can’t go back to being what they were or stuck in the future, willing, waiting, and hoping for them to come good on realising your vision. If you’re a Florence Nightingale, partial to fixing, healing, and helping for instance, you’re the type of person that will see potential in pain and problems.
Realising a potential that you have envisioned for the relationship, even if there is evidence that suggests that you should abort the mission, is what hangs you off the ‘hooks’.
The more overactive your imagination and the less inclined you are to be actions focused and match them with words, is the more potential you will see in people and your relationships. If you don’t reconcile reality with your vision, it’s a bit like having a relationship with your ‘hooks’ or your imagination.
How does potential become so inflated?
When you are not aware of the importance of shared values and seeing the person as a whole instead of just the ‘good bits’, you will be inclined to do the following:
When you meet people that possess a quality or characteristic that you find attractive, you will take it and assume that as a result, that they must possess other qualities and characteristics that you like or associate with it. This is all based on another assumption that if we find someone attractive then it must mean that they are a person who possesses attractive qualities and characteristics.
This is particularly dangerous when you give the fact that you feel sexually attracted to someone too much credit because you assume that you and your sexual organs are great judges of character, i.e I wouldn’t feel so attracted to them if they weren’t so right for me or we didn’t have a connection or a lot in common.
How you make the leap from one or a few qualities and characteristics to suddenly believing that they and the relationship have potential is something that I’ve recently taken to calling ‘picturing’:
This is where you take pieces of information that you hear or see (hooks), make assumptions about the person and correlate it to the rest of them, and as a result of this information and the resulting assumptions, adjust your picture of the potential of the relationship.
Often when you do picturing, you use the powers of your imagination to convince yourself that this person is great and/or that the relationship is worth your effort.
You know when you find yourself going from not that interested to suddenly seeing major potential and feeling invested? This happens when you experience the ‘hooks’ and you then start ‘picturing’ and then suddenly the relationship has potential.
HOOKS + PICTURING = POTENTIAL FOR THE RELATIONSHIP
One reader told me how she was totally not interested in a guy but then he told her this really sad story and next thing you know she was picturing herself being the woman that would love him and make him feel whole again.
Another reader told me that she wasn’t really that interested in her Returning Childhood Sweetheart, especially because even if he was a great lay all the way back then, he was very self-absorbed and arrogant and she wasn’t even attracted to him anymore. However when he talked about buying a place in a particular part of the country that she liked, his job, his status at work and within the community plus his dropped hints about being eager not to be single for long, in spite of no actual interest, she was now imagining herself at his side as his wife!
Another common example:
You discover that you have a shared love of drinking fine wine, listening to obscure music from the somewhere-or-other mountains, and outdoor pursuits. They’re really attractive too. You assume that with the shared interests and physical attraction that you have a lot in common and picture yourself doing all this stuff together, settling down and living happily every after. However you’re bewildered when the relationship flounders. They don’t want to settle down. They lack integrity and sometimes disrespect you. While you can agree on stuff that surrounds your interests, you can’t agree on how to live your lives emotionally or even together.
When you think about ending it, you think back to the ‘hooks’; the shared interests that you’ve never found someone else that shares, how great they look when their hair flops on the forehead, and the great sex. ‘But we have so much in common!’ You start picturing again and in your mind you can’t imagine anyone more right for you. But they’re still resisting being with you.
You both break up and you think you won’t ever love someone the way that you loved them. Every time you think about moving on, you keep going back to the ‘hooks’. You decide that what you have is too good to let go of so even though they haven’t changed, you go back.
Of course it’s not long before the cracks reappear. You’re still picturing though and you’re focused on the hooks and how they make the relationship so right and still seeing potential in them and the relationship. You remember what it felt like when you weren’t together and you keep coming back to the hooks.
The thing is, all this time when you’re doing the picturing, you’re taking isolated things and breathing life into the image that represents the potential of the relationship but you’re not actually seeing the whole picture despite doing all this picturing.
If you did, you’d see that you may have these ‘hooks’ but when it comes to the things that count like the shared values and mutual love, care, trust, and respect, you have very little or nothing to hang the relationship on.
Here’s the reality: You can never know the true potential of your relationship if what you derive the potential from is illusionary or based on things that in the grander scheme of stuff are not that important, and you can certainly can’t see potential in a relationship where you’re only looking at a partial, convenient view.
Your thoughts?
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You are right again – as usual. I had an interesting conversation with a friend last night that gave me a concept I am still coming to grasp. I was telling him about this Exmutual friend and what a fixer upper she is even to the extend of using a friend to further her own agenda – seeking validation from an EUM. Also about how angry I was at allowing her to cross my boundaries and get used by her again. I resented her for asking me to help him. How could you – you heartless bitch.
He stopped me and said this – I love my resentments – they teach me so much about myself. Stopped me in my tracks. Huh – how can you love your resentments?
Putting aside the anger and hurt (that I thought was long gone) I had to look in that mirror again and it hit me. Why did this bother me so – I thought I was done with all this. Had to be some reason it was still haunting me. Then I saw it – I looked at her and I saw me . Not me today – me back then – a Florence Nightingale. I would have done the same thing – comprised myself, played Ms. Fix It, anything to prove my worth, anything to be enough even at the expense of another – seeking validation from an EUM/AC. The need to be needed to be made to feel worthy and loveable at any cost.
At that moment I felt empathy. I remember how painful that all was – living in fear of not being enough and desperately needing that “fix”. I remember how painful it was to be dumped – which he will do now that he has gotten what he wanted from her (her help) and has moved far away – probably never to be heard from again. Has that made her a better person – no just used for his purposes. Does that validate her – no – maybe a fleeting moment but that beast is a hungry one. She will seek out another broken person and continue in the insanity. Forever seeking validation outside herself – because she knows no better and its not my job to teach her. Her epiphany will come soon enough.
Does not mean I need to join her or tolerate her behavior but I can understand what drives it. The resentment taught me a lesson. Have empathy for those who have not yet started the journey – forgive them they know not what they do. My boundaries are there to protect me from harm – stick to them – even at the cost of a “friend”. True friends primary core values and beliefs need to align with my own. I don’t need people in my life who seek to drain me and use me – been there done that – not playing anymore. Its true as Nat said the other day in her blog – sometimes the old friends have a hard time with the new you that has boundaries because it doesn’t work for them. I think this last time around was meant to illustrate clearly what I should have learned already up close and personal and show me first hand the progress I have made. I cannot tolerate being Ms.Fix it and see it for what it really is – seeking validation outside of myself and trying to control that which is not mine to control.
All the hooks listed seem to still be at least some valid reasons to like someone. How do you then know if you like someone because of “hooks” or because of shared values, etc? Is a combination of both still healthy?
Yes some of the “hooks” listed can be reasons as to why you like someone. [ money, good looks, sad story, personable, etc.]However, liking someone and building a shared future with someone is to be based in a SOLID foundation of
“shared values”.
You may like someone and not be in a shared partnering.
The point is…hooks + picturing = potential for a relationship.
That is the formula or pattern that we need to be aware of and stay clear from.
So…..what are we suppose to do for relationship health?
Make sure that their actions match their words.
Do they have THE SAME/ MUTUAL love, care,trust,respect.
Time will tell if they are equally vested.
Being smart, good looking, have money, good job, does not translate into a smart relationship, or a relationship that looks good, or that there is equity in a relationship with this individual.
We must transend to a CORE. The core being shared values. Not shared interests, hooks or picturing. Also it is important to note, not only do we have to watch our “pitfalls”, we have to be listening and watching them to see if they are “hooked” and “picturing” us!
I met a guy who thought I was a great bussiness women because I owned my own bussiness. However, what I really was was a great clinician. I just deposited and wrote checks. That was the extent of my bussiness expertise. He was projecting. He wanted me to be a great bussiness women. That is not what I wanted for myself at all. He was hooked and picturing. I was hooked and picturing with him. We both were. And we both honestly thought that we had a potential relationship. When in reality we had shared interests and mutual hooking and picturing. two great people just not great togeather for a SOLID healthy shared partnering.
Hope that helps.
Oh and Natalie…. Brilliant!
@HealthHeart
“we have to be listening and watching them to see if they are “hooked” and “picturing” us” Brilliant as usual.! It goes both ways. See me for who I am, Believe me when I tell you who I am, Trust me, don’t even think you can change me – accept as I am or get out!
It’s funny how we see ourselves as all unique and yet our thought process and ‘hooks’ can be so similar! I’m sure millions of women, all different in their own right, can identify with this article – I know I can.
how the frig do u know get and express all this so brilliantly daily? you’re so on it and the terms you’re building like ‘hooks’ and ‘picturing’ make it so much easier to see the patterns we create and highlight the possibilty of repeat offense now they’ve been categorized! wow… can so see my serial ‘hooks’ which have/can/do lead to assumptions and, moving forward like our new PM in Oz, I will be doing my best to not only recognise/cherish blindly the parts that ‘hook me in’… but really see the whole person to more objectively determine if they are a match on all and often even way more vip levels of love. thanks for the ongoing insights babe x
Right now I am at that halfway point where I am alternating between betting on potential (my potential, my guy’s potential, our love’s potential) and seeing the reality (difference in values). For me, I am betting on the potential that I will eventually like him the way I used to, when in fact I might be afraid to see what’s in front of me. Maybe they did change for the better…but then, maybe so did I.
My father put it best: when you two have managed to have *some kind of a* distance between yourselves, there is a good chance you grew apart in that time frame.
….”disinterest and rejection and sex and passion” Yep that was my hook, the more he acted disinterested and rejected me and then the sex/passion was so good I was “hooked”. I really feel stupid but I try not to beat myself up too much.
Its a journey back.
Wow, yet again you have hit the nail on the head.
Your blog has been so helpful to me, and I have identified with quite a few of the self-destructive dating behaviours you talk about. I’m working on changing that!
Wow, this rings so true for me. I recently moved to a new city and had continued to date or talk to or whatever ambiguous thing we deemed our time together to be with what I consider the culmination of Mr. Unavailable and and Assclown to be, A DOUCHEBAG. This was such a mistake. I should have just let go when I moved here. I landed an amazing job, he remained jobless, and still does. He’s a raging alcoholic with no work ethic. But we had sooo much fun together when he would come visit me in the city, and we had amazing sex, and well….that’s about it. Yet those hooks led to picturing which led to me last week trying to force a commitment upon him. He would text me when he felt like it, call me when he felt like it – and when he did I felt great. When he didn’t return my calls or text it would ruin my night, I would cry, wonder where he was. I was behaving in a way I am not proud of and persisted upon keeping things going between us despite the fact I am in a new city, a new job, etc. Perhaps partially out of loneliness. Last Friday we talked, and he yelled at me, “I’m not your boyfriend! I’m single!” “I never told you I loved you, imagine if I had done that” and my favorite, “I didn’t take you for a ride”…..riiiiiiight. And through reading this blog and others I realize in his tiny brain he really believes he didn’t take me for a ride. He was so unattached to me the entire time and I just kept betting on potential, even offering for his broke ass to come live with me in the city while I support him to get on his feet.
Somehow hearing “I’m not your boyfriend” out of the horses mouth really hit home for me. I actually stepped back and assessed (I still am) my life and all of the things I am making manifest for myself. I was using his random calls and texts and tiny displays of affection to validate myself when I have so many things happening during this positive transition in my life. He has nothing to offer me and it has taken me since May to finally realize that i needed to let go of the dream and go No Contact. Sadly, he does have a key to my studio which I will get when I go back to visit, or maybe a friend can bring it. To me it is not worth breaking NC to talk about. He has things here too. Whatever. I’m so over it and thanks to this blog that I have so dillegently been reading (even while I was with him) I realize how crucial it is to move on.
Great stuff Nat, really it’s about people seeing the good in others only to a ridiculous extent that actually puts us in danger and in bad situations! My hook was always what took place in the beginning, how great it was and I could never quite get my head around how they had changed, so id wait for them to change back. I figured that’s who they really are and somehow id done something to make them change into something awful What I now realise is rarely do we see the real person in that first 6 months, what ever they evolve into is generally the real them and if that’s less then desirable, get the hell out because the cracks are now appearing. Especially if they have not been their true authentic self.
You know it is funny how we see ourselves in that light, my hook is about seeing that person for who they are.
My life, in a nutshell. Every single word of this post is true…I just didn’t see it at the time. I let the fact that I wanted to sleep with him and that we shared career, background and interests blind me to the fact that he had no character, morals and no desire to really be in a committed relationship. He wanted to hang out and have fun (despite alot of ambiguous promises at the beginning of the relationship) and I was, in my head, turning it into the love affair of a lifetime. Without shared values, goals and a shared sense of what being in a relationship means, there is no growth, no security -only confusion, pain and a growing sense of desperation. It has taken me months but I have finally unhooked, and I have to work with my assclown. He has been trying to reestablish “a friendship/relationship”, wanting to get things back to the way they were (whatever that means) but thanks to this site and the clarity NML has offered, it is not going to happen. I trust myself and my judgement. My boundaries are in place and he is not getting through this time. His words and actions don’t match and he hasn’t changed. He just wants a free pass and to see if he can manipulate me back to the trusting fool I once was. I am not that woman any more and I know he has nothing substantial or real to offer. I am not settling for a meal of crumbs anymore. Thanks, Natalie. I needed this today, although I am proud to say I already knew it.
Another great post, thanks NML! It really helps you get it all in perspective and every post helps me on the journey to understanding myself and what i want.
i always bet on potential and start inventing a relationship as soon as i meet someone and ‘click’ with them on a social and sexual level, but no more! I got a text last night from a former fling (not an AC or EUM, just someone i used to have fun with and had no emotional investment in) telling me he was at a gig and wanted to see if i wanted to meet up. Previously my mind would have gone into overdrive and i would have built it up and imagined that there must be something more to it, that he must be ‘interested’ in some way, but now i see it for what it is: he was drunk, nearby and horny. I didn’t feel either flattered or offended, i saw it for exaclty what it was (an option to have some no strings fun, as we had previously) and wished him a good night.
i’m so happy now that there’s no drama, that i am honest with myself, not dining on illusions, not getting ‘hooked’ straight away, not waiting for consistency from my unreliable EUM/AC, able to step back and assess the situation, not blaming myself. I still have my bad days, but i feel like a huge weight has been lifted.
I agree totally with Trinity (above), that you can’t know someone in the first 6 months, you have to remain real about the situation, don’t go in all guns blazing, don’t invent a future, don’t invest until you are really sure that it will work and that you’ve really seen what they’re made of.
I loved your entire post Minky and I cant wait to reach the point where you are.
Natalie as usual you are right on time. I am still dumbfounded as I realized that I am QUEEN of illusions and have been since I was a teenager and I fit just about every hook listed. I’m working on myself every single day. Today makes a month that we have not spoken…I had to pray real hard not to call as I was focusing on some of those hooks and having a bit of nostalgia. Thank God I made it through that. Today is a new day. God be with me.
Thanks Angelface, you will get there. i had a really bad week last week where i was really missing the big idiot ex, but i think part of it is a fear of the new way of being and thinking. we become so accustomed to the analyzing and the fretting, and their point of view determining how good we feel about ourselves, that it’s scary to move forward in a new way and i do find myself scuttling back into my old ways sometimes. The good thing is that the old ways now feel really unbearable and i hate feeling low and i HATE missing him.
we miss the way they made us feel, the good times and, yes, also we miss them as people (dammit!), because everyone has their good qualities and it shows that we have more heart than they do and we ARE connected with our emotions, so we hurt while they skip off without a care in the world. But, you know what, i wouldn’t be any other way. He may have a heart of stone, but i would never want to be like that.
This is again a blog post which has hit the nail on the head. With my ex EUM I projected what I wanted him to be, based on a wrong equation: mutual humanitarian interests, his concern about the ‘world in general’, his charity fundraising, love of outdoor pursuits, nature and music, a few endearing past issues and a vulnerability beneath the exterior, equalled (in my mind) depth of character, sensitivity, integrity, honesty and value for individuals. This was a wrong assumption on my part. I ignored the way he had treated his ex wife, an innate self centredness, the white lies and other major red flags, choosing to believe all the promises of futures and declaraions of undying love. I learned my lesson – the hard way. Sometimes I still remember our holidays and our mutual interests and these acted as hooks to keep me invested for some time. However, now I am free of that situation and this blog post is just what was needed!!
Projections, misguided assumptions, shared interests. I think the later in particular can be tricky territory, if we aren’t fully attentive to the realities and nuances of the other person. It’s always so exciting when we meet another who on the surface, shares the same passion.
The 2 recent ACs in my life were accomplished in their own fields but I’ve grown to realize that being accomplished and attaining status/success do not automatically translate into positive values. One AC was a self-professed, pompous intellectual/art history aficionado/academic. But in my actual interactions with him, I got the sense that he was merely regurgitating what he’d read from books (I found out from a mutual friend that his ritual was to whisk all his girlfriends to the museum, show us his favourite paintings, impress us with the same Spiel and recycle jokes), there was no authentic connection/desire to engage with my thoughts, or spontaneous, intuitive, response. Deep down inside, I felt something was not right about him, he was lacking in humanity and emotionally stunted but I chose to close a blind eye (I’ve always been told that I am too critical, although I know that I have sharp instincts and I ended up overcompensating for this in a way). I allowed myself to make wrong assumptions about his character, based on his academic achievements. I’ve learnt that intellectual brilliance comes in many shades, some dubious ones, some people acquire knowledge as a means of showing off and I’ve reached the conclusion that people with brains who are disconnected from their hearts and souls are ultimately uninteresting to me.
The other AC (the one who captured my heart, disappeared and led me on a series of bad rebounds before returning to him) was also idealized. I thought he had heightened artistic sensibilities as a musician, that he had emotional depth, empathy, a more complex emotional inner landscape (which accounted for his ambiguity and blowing hot/cold). I had visions of him inspiring and motivating me to be a better musician, and fantasies of us having long in-depth discussions about what we were working on. This never happened. All these positive qualities are actually what I desire for myself and what I uphold in my own professional life. Based on my interactions with him, all these traits were completely missing (he seemed enthralled by the prestige and money that he derived from his position) but I was in denial and was still stubbornly clinging onto my vision of him, through my rose-tinted glasses. It was my pride and own ego that prevented me from getting down to earth (I didn’t want to believe that I’d made a mistake in my assessment of him), and until now, I still want to wish that he was the man I thought he was. But he isn’t. The image I’d constructed of him and what he was like in reality was completely divergent, I couldn’t reconcile this disparity, this incongruity and much of my anguish was due to this huge gulf between perception and truth. Coming to terms with the truth has been painful, but I’ve been mourning my own fractured hopes, my dreams based on his insubstantial words, I’ve not been grieving over him per se (and I keep Nat’s mantra in mind about why should mourn over someone who mistreated you is like wanting to keep trash.. excuse the shoddy paraphrase) but I guess getting in touch with the truth is necessary and liberating! Good luck to us all 🙂
I’m guilty of having an overactive imagination and being somewhat paralyzed in asserting my own actions, all my hopes and dreams of my ex-AC finally acknowledging my efforts and loving me in return were based upon his sporadic verbal expressions of interest. He gave the impression that he had interest, that he had the intention of getting to know me better and deepening the involvement, but his actions did not correspond at all. He first came into my love like a thunderbolt, I fell in love with the image he presented to me and now I am realizing that the man I thought he was/wanted him to be (artistic, sensitive, intelligent, endearing, gentlemanly) does not exist at all, his beauty was really a shell, his actions (flaking out on dates, ignoring my texts, never calling when he promised he would, losing my things and not admitting to them) have shown that he is callous, dysfunctional, irresponsible and thoughtless. I always hoped, yearned, longed for the day he’d slowly open up to me, I thought it was my fault for not being patient enough and I’d all these intentions to give him positive encouragement in trying to get him to open his heart up to love again, I felt that he had the potential to grow and become a better person.
We had no shared values (he is materialistic, obsessed about his career and loves money), but I thought… I am able to live with differences, I reasoned to myself that I actually like differences because I appreciate diversity/having different viewpoints that challenge my own! It was incredible how I’d managed to come up with all sorts of convoluted excuses and justifications for staying with him, as I felt it was my mission to do so. (I’ve been doing a lot of difficult, painful self-journeying recently and I found that many of my issues were echoed in his dysfunctional ways too)
In a sense, I think we all do have the potential to be the best we can but what makes an AC an AC is the way they are complacent, unreflective and happy going about their own existence. The truth was that there was no potential in the reality of the relationship I had with my ex-AC (the piecemeal, impoverished SMS communication, the broken promises, the bitter disappointment and endless tormenting nights of waiting for his replies.. that was the ugly truth and reality), all the potential I saw derived from what I thought it could be,*if* only he’d allow me to love and care for him in the way I envisioned, *if* only he could receive me fully.
Wow. JadeSesame and Hel –your comments were right on!
I am basically doing all the same things that you both posted and currently trying to draw my energy and attention away from this false illusion. It really is amazing how we get more attached to the illusion of the AC more than him!
I have got to snap out of it soon!!
JadeSesame, you could be me talking! I too have always had a vivid imagination and was always accused of being the ‘fussy one’ out of my friends, for always finding fault with men early on (probably the ones who would have been far better for me than the ACs and EUMs I did stick with)
I have been in touch with someone lately who, on paper, seemed really ‘my type’ but I have had a word with myself every day, reminding myself not to get carried away with thoughts of the future. Needless to say, he’s been sporadic with contact already. Before, this would have been the point where I upped my own contact, trying to lever him into action. However, these past few months I’ve thrown myself into my own interests and am too busy this week to faff about chasing after him.
I feel so much stronger and more in control and I’ve also realised that it’s not the end of the world if he goes for a Burton. I’m NOT missing the chance of happiness here – he’s already shown me he’s poor at committing! I barely know him, so anything I was beginning to think about the future was JUST my imagination speaking.
Thank you so much Natalie for making all this so clear. I would have ended up down yet another AC/EUM road without you! 😀
This is a terrific blog post and what I’m going through right now! I met someone and, based on his voice, his pictures, what he told me about his future plans, and what we would do – travel, fix up the house, etc. – as a couple, I fell for him. The reality was nothing like this at all, and, sadly, the relationship is over. I didn’t see his harsh nature plus a few other things that doomed us yet now that I look back, I missed important warning signs. I only saw the hooks.
Reminiscing can definitely be a trap!! Why do we tend to look back in either anger, or rose coloured glasses???
Even when we are in a wonderful loving relationship some days we can tell ourselves we would be fine or even better off without them – isn’t this just a mood or a thought?!
1 Be real – take proactive steps to reflect on your relationship if something is not feeling right (outside of your relationship). I have found that many times I was going through a rough spot in general or another area of my life and was projecting some of that into a not so perfect relationship situation. Even do a pros and cons list if you need or write a letter to get out your frustration then burn it to release the negative emotions.
2 Be grateful – if the person you are with is wonderful in all bar a few ways decide if you can actually live with the negative ones (none of us are perfect). However if any of them impinge on you – eg his failure to control his anger in healthy ways – then remove yourself from the situation.
3 Be real about looking back. Try to be objective and do a pros cons reflecting back then your anger and rose coloured glasses can come into a more balanced view.
Wishing you success in love.
Yep, that is what I did. When I first met the A/C I broke up with 7 months ago, my initial impressions was, “what a POOP.” But one experience with him, and yep, discovered we had lots of shared values, but those became “hooks.” Despite the shared values, the guy was totally messed up emotionally. Took me 7 months to heal. I am just now healing.
Wow, superb thoughts in this post. I read it yesterday and let it sink in and I have come to see things much more clearly. My hook was fantasy. I mistook his short term, reactive AC interest as “caring” and projecting all my illusions and hopes onto him. He temporarily enjoyed the ego strokes and the benefits of being with me but when I began to expect things, when I expected him to get in it for real and to begin to care about me for real, he just shook his head and walked away. The fantasy hook and the picturing I was doing kept me locked in the “relationship”, even after he was long gone and the need for validation kept me hoping he would come back and make it right. We had our first talk in 3 months the other day at work and he kept saying “what can I do” to make it better? I realized that what I needed him to do – to care, to empathize, to acknowledge the hurt – he was absolutely incapable of doing. He said the words “I’m sorry” but there was nothing behind them and it didn’t make me feel any better at all. I realized he simply wasn’t the man I thought he was – it was nothing but my picture of him and the potential I had hoped was there. He literally was incapable of what I had expected him to do, and the pain and suffering I felt because of my disappointed expectations was my own creation. Deep down, I have always feared I wasn’t good enough, wasn’t lovable, and I went out and found someone who reinforced that idea. He quite literally doesn’t care about me, and somehow that mirrors what I feel about me.
The knowledge is valuable, the ability to recognize the pattern is important and means I can change, but the realization of all of this has left me devastated. I guess the last scraps of my protective denial are gone and I have come face to face with me. I know in time it will get better and that I can now do something positive to change it but I guess this is what they mean when you finally hit rock bottom. Epiphany relationships. Thank you, Natalie.
Sule
You sound a bit depressed in your post and I hope you are doing well. Growth of this magnitude is difficult and sometimes we need to hit bottom to go back up, better and stronger. It sounds like you are there. Its easy to blame it all on the assclowns and unavailable men but at some point we do need to face our part in all this, why we choose them and stay. I really understand what you mean when you said you found someone who didn’t care for you and how that’s how you feel about yourself. I always thought I liked myself and wanted a relationship but have to admit if that were true, the man I was with was a very poor choice. I thought he adored me but his interest quickly faded. He hung around and I kept hoping, stayed hooked but by the end, neither of us thought much of me. Stay strong and keep going. It does get better, and all this pain will be worth while. Love you and the rest will follow.
Wow, more great food for thought.
Sule, I love what you said about that he doesn’t care about you, and that mirrors that you don’t care about you.
I was drawn to read Nat’s article on He’s with someone else- Why her and not me… and in essence that your AC literally penalises you for standing by him because if you accept his crap this means you are not worth respecting. It reminds me of ‘playing hard to get’ and how that makes a man try harder, I think you just have to keep saying ‘no, no, no, no, no unless he does deliver or figures himself out. It’s amazing how your hooks kick back in again though, and you find yourself swaying back to them and losing boundaries.
I spoke to my enigma earlier in the week and it was the same old him, which made me even think that I’d wrongly accused him of being false etc. But it’s interesting what a few day’s reflection will do, as the hooks of his voice, his energy, all the wants and desires, fade. I can see the reason he gave for abruptly leaving was really quite lame – there MUST have been more going on, to end a whole relationship with all that he said he was in it for, cannot be right. When I asked him casually whether there had been anything going on at home, he answered too quickly. He is not mourning me – he is refocussing wherever else his greed takes him.
Sadly I also felt a lot of tears of losing our baby and feel that when the time is right I want to ask him to plant a flower with me for closure. I think he will because I know his ego, to be the nice guy, to be popular etc so as long as I ask him nicely I think he will join me. Even though he never said it, I think the baby left because he was secretly hoping it wasn’t there, and how he really couldn’t do all that he’d promised to me. He couldn’t control the situation any more so got out. My pregnancy was planned, which makes it even harder, not that it was his preference for it to happen straight away but that he wasn’t going to stop it, as who knows what the divine plan was? But there’s nothing like a reality check to force someone’s hand. It’s funny how this whole thing occurred, it’s like I was so meant to see this catastrophe rather than end up with him. Purely someone to learn my lessons with I think. I think my self trust got a bit jaded – how could I ‘feel’ this was right, but ultimately this was right to go the way it did. A bit more recovery to go but all these steps are helping. Thanks for all your sharing, it’s awesome. regards, Dianna
Hi everybody, I keep reading posts where people asking if they should contact “him” to ask why he is an AC, EUM, broke up, disappeared, etc.
Or where people telling how nasty “he” was after the break up when they tried to get some sense out of the AC.
IMPOSSIBLE !! The only pill that works is NO CONTACT AT ALL. Just slam the door shut once and for all and it will save a lot of heartbreak and nastiness.
I do apologize if this post might not be in the correct place, but I just had to get this off my chest !!
Take Care everybody
X
I couldn’t agree more. Because of the hooks, because of the picturing and the illusions, the only way to deal with an assclown is no contact. I have learned the hard way. After months of NC, I had come to see my ex as the total AC he is. Everything I had loved about him evaporated and I saw him for the childish, controlling, uncaring man he really is. We work together and after months of not speaking at all, he tried to weasel his way back in. He didn’t want to talk about the relationship, just wanted to hit reset and go back “to normal”. After 3 minutes of any kind of relationship talk, he melts down. He wanted me to forgive him (give him a free pass) and just forget about all the hurt, the broken promises and his atrocious behaviour. There was no need to suck it and see – I could see instantly there was nothing positive to be gained from him. What I noticed, however, was that my peace of mind flew out the window. All the work I had done to distance myself and stop the obsessive thoughts just disappeared. Even though I no longer had any interest or hope in a romantic relationship or even a friendship, his toxic nonsense had worked its way back in. I don’t know if it was a hook (if it is, I don’t know which one, maybe pain or drama) but I found myself fuming and raging and running it over and over in my head. It was like I was right back to where I was when he dumped me. It has taken me two days to regain my composure and sanity and I don’t want him near me again (although that is tough to control given we work closely together and leaving is not an option). There is no safe way of dealing with ACs. There is nothing they are going to say or do that will make it better, help us understand or provide answers. All you can expect from an assclown is assclown behaviour and they are happy to oblige! I thought I had unhooked myself from him but it seems his confusing, manipulative ways can still upset me, even if they don’t work (he even trotted out the crocodile tears as his “big finish”…these guys are so predictable, its embarrassing). Even in the space of a few minutes, his actions and words didn’t match! Before I talked to him, I felt fine. How do I unhook the final hook, if I can’t recognize what it is?
I agree with you Alice. NC has worked for me. I couldn’t take one more minute of disrespect or lies. I had hooks keeping me vested in the “relationship”, but when my sanity was clearly in jeopardy, because I felt like I was on the brink of losing myself and my mind, I went NC. He was systematically breaking me down to a twig ready to snap. It was either go NC or go crazy. NC also gave the time and space to see the reality of things. Any contact would have just been a repeat visit to hell. I didn’t have kids with him or work with him so was able to do this. The reality of things was, I held on to a relationship that didn’t exist, only what I thought existed based on his good behavior in the first 3 months. Even deeper, the reality was that he wasn’t that good in the first three months, but I was betting on his potential.
Amen, Jenny!! NC works and is the only solution for dealing with ACs and other extreme EUM. I wish I had the good fortune to not have to work with my AC and it has been a true test. His reset button, his refusal to be accountable, his ability to make me question my own sanity. The hooks are strong and it has become a conscious fight to break free of them. Identifying the hooks helps but our psyches can play tricks on us. NC may seem an extreme measure (my AC has blasted me for it) but it is a necessary one to retain sanity, get perspective and is probably one of the most powerful tools we have to unhook from these unhealthy relationships. Even a little exposure can be deadly.
OMG…this could have been my words ver-batim…..thank you for saying what I have said exactly outloud and it is comforting to know I am not insane or on the verge of madness, as he would have me think. “The potential…”…..oh yes….all an illusion designed by him. This sick S.O.B will prey again…and I am so grateful to be able to shake myself free from this predator and reclaim myself. It is not easy, but necessary for my preservation….he is the darkest spirit I have ever encountered, and my therapist tries to convince me to THANK HIM for being alive to show me the deepest places for me to heal. …at any case, you have hit the nail on the head and I thank you again for the validation I needed to hear…….xoxox
NCR is the only thing that works. After three months of NC, I had to start speaking to my AC for work and it immediately messed with me head. I have spent the past 4 days trying to undo the damage. There is no safe contact, there is no innocent contact, there is only more crap!!
Step away from the assclown!! Save yourself. The hooks are powerful but they are not real. There is nothing you have overlooked, failed to give him a chance on and NOTHING is ever going to be different with these guys. The only potential you are betting on is getting hurt again and its guaranteed.
I love this article. It makes some tough concepts very clear and I have been thinking about it alot. I know my hook is drama. I tend to gravitate to guys who give me lots to complain about to friends and co-workers. I am always going on (usually in mock exasperation) about how he did this or that, analysing every email or text, turning even small events into big deals. I guess that mirrors how my AC turned crumbs into meals (or thought he did). HIs ability to rewrite history and deny things he said or did drove me round the bend, but I find I miss the drama when its not around (more than I miss him, anyway). That’s what’s kept me stuck in my head, still fighting with him (in my head and in person), still thinking about him, still creating drama out of every contact or interaction. I suppose that shows how empty my life is, that I would rather have an unhealthy relationship with drama to occupy my thoughts, rather than healthy peace and quiet. A power ful hook and one I would like to get off of soon.
Sarah – I love what you wrote. I had such a full life before my AC looked me up. Shortly before him I sold my biz, after he looked me up my mother died, my father a mess, my Uncle almost dying, my cat killed, 2 cancer scares, BS with family regarding my mother’s estate, him a chronic pain patient – me a fixer – I have completely lost myself. I had truly left drama behind – then these last 2 1/2 yrs. I am exhausted and find myself bored now that things are behind me including the AC. I think in that short 2 1/2 yrs I became a drama queen again – oh yuck.
I have to say I was totally stunned on how my AC would deny he said things to me, or the way he would justify things, it was absolute crazy making i.e. asking me to live with him, marry him and then denying he ever said it. The reset button – not allowed to discuss “our” past and his behaviors – told me that was one thing that stood in our way – me trying to discuss the past to avoid it in the future (me talking too much).
One thing I know it was easier to deal with him than deal with the grief of losing my mother – which I finally faced in one of “break” modes. I fell apart – it sucked but had to do it. Now that I am in NC (16 days today) YEAH – I am now faced with how life has changed drastically and what I need to do to take care of me again with all these changes. He was a distraction (albeit a terrible one) that I was hoping would be the one – just didn’t want to face it and have another loss – and another failed relationship. I stayed single/sexless for 8 yrs before this clown came swooping in.
I am scared about finding a new career – etc. But once my energy is up I will enjoy the challenge once again. Trying to be patient and loving with myself. Can’t wait to have me back – I really quite like myself and my life (I have the most amazing friends!) Thanks for this website and all the input. You all have been a life & sanity saver!
Having not visited the site for a bit, I have read the last several posts with real interest and found this one particularly fascinating. I think picturing can go on as much after the break up as during the relationship. After stripping away the illusions, I know I was dealing with an assclown, but all of the drama (my hook, for sure) was of my own creation. All he really did was sort of half-heartedly play with the idea of a relationship for a bit and then try to slip back into friend mode without having an awkward conversation. I was the one who had turned it into a full blown relationship in my head, complete with all sorts of expectations of what he should be doing and how it should be going and then was devastated when he made clear that wasn’t how he was thinking. Following the “breakup”, I continued picturing like mad, demonizing him and turning every slight, every bit of assclownery into a full blown attack. I tried to turn colleagues against him, in the guise of trying to get them to see him for “what he really was”. I hostilely refused to speak to him or even acknowledge him at work, in the belief I was punishing him and could shame and guilt him into caring how he had treated me (thus teaching him a lesson when I had no business trying to do that). Shame and guilt have to be the least effective means of getting someone to see the error of their ways, particularly when they are incapable of holding themselves accountable for their actions or if they actually care about you. The other day, he finally came to try and talk. I demanded an apology,which he felt he didn’t need to give. I saw this as more assclown behavior. He asked me to forgive him and I thought he was just ducking more responsibility. I immediately accused him of trying to hit the reset button. Then I went and told everyone about it – feeding my drama queen.
After thinking about it, I realized that my picturing of him as a demon after he failed to give me what I thought I wanted was just my way of ducking my responsibility for my illusions and my fantasies. Yes, he’s an assclown but in his own assclown way, he was trying. He had not gotten into the relationship because he knew he would put it in the ditch and he didn’t want that to destroy our working relationship. I am embarrassed to say he had been behaving more maturely and professionally than I. He had given as much as he could in the relationship and then been fairly honest about the fact that was as far as he could go. That it wasn’t enough for me is not grounds to continue to use him as a punch line or a punching bag now.
It is time to think about the value of a “proportional response”. What he did was hurtful but it was not fatal and not necessarily deserving of how I am now behaving. If I trust me, if my boundaries are strong, then there is nothing this man can do to me. I am inherently protected. I had exaggerated his evilness as a way of keeping him at bay and amping up the drama for my friends. It was just a way of keeping me from dealing with my own stuff and keeping the drama going and avoiding my own embarrassment at my behavior. I need to forgive him for me, to free myself and put a stop to it. I need to see things clearly at all times, pre and post break up and stop all the picturing. I need to get off the drama hook. I need to start acting like the grown up I keep badgering him to become. I created my own pain when I failed to see him for what he really was. I used to think I loved and accepted him as he was but all I had done was fall in love with a mirage. If I truly want to learn the lesson of acceptance and clarity, I need to accept him for who he really is. He is an assclown but I have dscovered now that if I only expect assclown behaviour from him, I am not disappointed or hurt, just amused at how consistent he is in it. This isn’t about justifying a return to a non-existant relationship. This is about endling all the picturing, good and bad, and letting go of a relationship that had never really existed – for me and my sake. I never realized before how much of my life I had spent in fantasy land where love is concerned.
Thank you Natalie for all you have shared and taught.
@Tina and others: What you describe, Tina, is what I find very challenging to deal with now – that realization that I was wanting something – an outcome – so badly with the AC that I overbaked the relationship too early. He did too – with all sorts of promises and general excitement. But I kept it going after he started to back away.
The issue I have now is with forgiveness. I am not sure whether me reaching out to him, having told him not to contact me four months ago, would be ridiculous – since he was – objectively – really crap to me in those final weeks and during the break-up. He said and did some really mean, uncaring things. And my idealizing of him and the relationship – picturing – while poor judgment, was not a crime. In fact, in decisions generally, we usually have incomplete information and make up the rest based on past experiences, hopes, patterns etc. I have a guy interested in me now and I can see that his feelings for me, or for who he thinks I am, is making him say things that are out of step with how long he has known me and where I am at personally – so I can see how the AC would have felt with me. The difference is that I am going to respond appropriately to this guy, and not mistreat him or at least try my best not to. (Incidentally, picturing is a hard thing because it happens, to some extent, in any relationship. But I totally agree with NML that you can find yourself – with a bit of fancy future talk – losing touch with your actual feelings for the person and their values.)
Anyway, the issue for me is – and I have been thrashing about with this for a while – how do I say to him (in not these words, of course!) ‘OK, we’re fine. You were a sh*t, but I was also being a bit nutty, let’s just put a line under it.’ What is my responsibility to him if I know that I misread and pictured things? Would I be taking on too much if I sent a quick email to say as much, given that he was a really cowardly and pretty harsh person to me at the end? Is it better just to know these things yourself and pretend the AC never existed and keep going? I am fairly happy to do this, and I haven’t breached NC once (so I am obviously being guided by something here). But there is still a strong part of me that wants to send him a simple email to say that I regret that the relationship was, for different reasons, unsatisfying for both of us, and that things are fine between us. I don’t know… Last time I suggested this idea in a comment, I received a load of helpful, thoughtful responses about not saying anything – which was suitable at that time because I was still attached, somewhat, to my ideas of him. But it does seem harder not to say something to him, the more I see my own role in it all, and the more confident I am with my own future without him. I don’t care about his response anymore. It would be more for me. Does this forgiveness and truce need to be externalized? Is it better for both of us just to leave it messy and make our own way? Is it up to him to reach out if he thinks it’s necessary, given the circumstances? My friend advised me not to do anything since she thinks he will ignore it or write something to say that he was right and that I was indeed crap. Might happen. But at least I would have said that it’s fine, and I am not convinced I would care too much. I don’t feel like I need him to say the right thing for me to keep marching on. But I want to be officially untied to this person.
Dear Elle,
I think when you decide you are ‘officially untied’, then you are -you don’t need him to sign the papers!
I know exactly how you feel though; I am somewhere in your area – though you are definitely further ahead, in all practical senses (I am still clinging to the sinking boat, though I have I pretty much now put my bucket down and am just sitting on the boat waiting to go under! – he just sits there as always, just the same, as if he is oblivious! He has never bothered trying to save us).
I have told him – emailed him, more precisely, as these are things an EU does not allow to be spoken about in front of his very face! (what an affront that would be!)- that I am aware of my own part in the situation; that it was also up to me to ‘get a grip’. I also told him, when I came across this site, that I now understood that he had commitment issues and that more importantly, for me, that I now understood that I did too. I got no comment about anything I had said. Nothing; except “I will never not love you” (make sense of that if you can!)
I don’t know the answer Elle. I think if it’d make you feel better, then go ahead, but I suspect it won’t make you feel better ultimately, and it will just be more “information” for you to process or to dwell on or to analyse etc…because, with the best will in the world, that is what we do with it!
I also think that whatever you think it is that you should retrospectively take responsibility for or chastise yourself for, this guy treated you pretty badly – so you were galloping ahead when he had cooled off or wanted to slow down; he has a tongue in his head, doesn’t he? He could have stated his intentions, and not got you all in fuddle?
And I think this is the thing with these people: if they would just be clear from the start; say what they mean and mean what they say, then no-one could reasonably have any quibble with them. Did he say what he meant and mean what he said, Elle? I am guessing not.
I wholly empathise though with what you have said. I am the same. I feel there is no closure until we all understand eachother! But I am now – for the first time ever – seeing that as pie in the sky. I know from being on the other end in the past (having a guy needing to speak to me when I am done with it), that I just don’t want to know! I don’t want him to talk to me. I don’t need him to. And if your ex is in this place, he is maybe not as interested as you are about ‘tying up the loose ends’; he maybe just wants to draw the line here.
Perhaps think of this: The only person you owe anything to now is yourself.
Good luck. Let’s know how it goes, either way.
frightened still to give it that final dunt into the
“I will never not love you” = You are someone I have strong feelings for, perhaps the strongest of feelings, perhaps unique feelings, but the reason why I have to use a double negative in this declaration is because I want to maintain distance between my feelings and you, and therefore water down any responsibility that comes along with telling you them. I hate to say it, Fearless, but he may as well have said that he would like to be a soccer dad in your life, happily cheering you on from the sidelines, but not playing the game with you. His reply was frustratingly selfish and hurtful. But, from an outsider’s perspective, its meaning is pretty clear.
(Hope my analysis is helpful and not too severe, because I suspect you already know this. You seem to know so much about your situation, probably to the extent that hope is preserved. Because you can so fairly and astutely work it all out, it still seems promising. I think we all do this, to some degree.)
Elle,
Thanks. Yes, you read it exactly as I did (though you explain it more succinctly) and I told him as much (email of course). I got no response.
I think I do read my “relationship” very well. I think I always have (all nine years of it!); I just never knew there was language for it, so I had a hard time expressing it to myself, never mind to him. I feel I have now found the power of expression and it is both enlightening and destroying me.
My hooks: he’s a very successful academic – I was in awe of him from the start. I met him at university (told me he’d recently broekn up with the girl he lived with – not true as I discovered later when I cornered him into an explanation) – he swept me off my feet and then a few months later when I was about to graduate, he ran very cold – hostile even. He didn’t even speak to me on graduation day – and when I left to the world of work and drudgery of a nine to five job, I didn’t want to let go of that other world that had opened up to me. That was nine years ago – I left it alone for months and months, but miserable, I maintained email contact and eventually we met up again and it has been on/off ever since.
He has been telling me all these years that he WILL get out of his “situation”. I hoped he was telling the truth. I gave up believeing him about 4 years ago, but I never could let go for more than a few months at a time. I always thought it was a simple case of “her” or “me”? Decide. But I now fully realise what I think lurked somewhere in my mind all along; it is not “her” or “me”, it is an entrenched commitment fear/EU with him. I am sure he is emotionally unavailable. Emotionally stunted. Full stop,
So it drones on… and on.. and on… I am hooked on so many things, I think. His company (which I love), his intellect; the sex (whcih is dysfunctional, I think, but that’s another novel!)… I call myself “fearless” – aspirational – when I really think I am a pathetic person!
When I try to let go of him I feel as if my safety net has been pulled from under me… I feel desolate and that life is not worth struggling with any more…and I am tired of struggling; I feel I have struggled all my life with all of life’s obstacles and woes all on my own and I just feel ‘done in’.
I haven’t seen him for two months. We are on an “off” period. Have been passing only the occasional text about nothing in particular. He phoned me last night for an ‘unrelated’ matter. I dealt with that; the conversation was stilted. I felt furious and empty when I put the phone down. I phoned him back and told him how I felt (distressed); that if we were reduced to “this” then there was no point in anything about us anymore… he responded like a five year old who had been told to go tidy his room. I got something like this :’ please don’t… I am not well…(which I know he is – he is off work ill)…whine … whine… please just go and have your glass of wine… please… don’t be distressed… don’t.. please…I am really not feeling well…you know I am not well… whine… whine…). He literally collpases into a five year old whenever I try to talk to him about “our” issues.
I told him that i did know he was not well, but that he was happy to have a conversation about a ‘benign’ topic five minutes ago, and not to pretend that he would like me to go and relax with my wine.. that he just wants me off his phone.. and it is the topic he doesn’t like and has nothing to do with him being unwell.
To cut a long story less long… I told him I needed a conclusion to all of this, that it was making me miserable; he agreed it was all no use at all, and that it was his inaction and indecision that was the problem – not me; none of it was my fault. .. I asked him what he thought the solution was and he said that he thought it could only be that we stop contacting eachother until he gets his situation sorted. I told him I had to agree that we should not contact eachother. He said ‘bye for now’ and put the phone down.
So that’s sorted, then!!???
But I know he won’t actually DO anything. I KNOW that!! I know the problem is much more intractable than that… and I know that his bye ” for now”, is also just another way of keeping me “in”. And it annoys me that he thinks I will be a feckin option for him forever – till we both die!!
Anyway, foolishly (but do I care!) I texted him this morning to tell him his “bye for now” was just his way of not committing… that I knew why he was couching his words in that way and that he is wrong if he thinks I will remain an option for him,,, that I am now struggling my way in to reality and out of cloud cuckoo land and that he too should get real about himself. He hasn’t replied. He won’t. I know that. The end.
(sorry if this is long and off topic. I won’t keep up my ranting – I just needed to get it all out of me!).
Now I need to get unhooked and commit to NC – can I do it?? I have little faith in myself, I think. I am weak and foolish. I feel very alone. Soul destroyed. And very depressed. Any words of wisdom would be gratefully received. More than anything else I think I need to get away from myself! But I am stuck with me, unfortunately. Can I do NC with myself?!
F
Fearless – I do not know if what I say will be helpful – but I hope so. You are stronger than you realize – to have stayed for 9 yrs is a feat. If you let go and get thru the pain you might find you like yourself on the other side. Stronger, kinder to yourself! I know it can be hard – but I have had much time alone (out of relationship) and it can get lonely – but it is also lonely with someone who is unavailable. Actually lonier is what I found. I do like and actually love myself today – I would rather be me now than who I was with my AC.
The NC can be hard, but empowering. I think you have some questions to ask yourself. Do you really want a fulfillling relationship? If so, let go of this AC. You deserve better – a man you do NOT have to share, a man who appreciates you, a man who truley wants to be with you and knows how special you are. You are special – know it and expect that!!
Elle and Tina – I too have wrestled with the forgiveness issue. I was always taught that forgiveness is for me, not for the other person. It doesn’t excuse their behaviour or give them a free pass. It just allows you to move on without resentments. When you are ready to forgive, you can usually tell it clearly. The question you both seem to be asking is whether you need to let your AC know that you have forgiven them or recognized your role in the relationship. The question you may want to ask yourselves is: what are you hoping to accomplish? Are you still trying to teach him his lessons or change him in some way? Are you hoping for evidence of growth and change in him based on his response? A possible renewed friendship or relationship? If your exes truly are assclowns, that might be expecting too much. It might also be interpretted by them as a sign of interest on your part, opening the door for more assclown fall back behaviour or another ego stroke that convinces them there is nothing wrong with their way of operating.
Forgiveness frees you, not them. Like Tina, I have to work with my AC and that’s slightly different, the same as if you have kids. We have to have contact and it has to be professional and respectful, even if their past behaviour to us wasn’t. At this point, ask yourself honestly – what do you want? Do you want peace and civility in the work place and can you maintain that without falling prey to his AC ways? If so, then a formal statement of forgiveness may not be necessary, just a gradual thaw or return to respectful business behaviour (always maintaining your boundaries). Do you want to maintain NC? If you need that for your sanity, then that is what you need and you don’t need to explain to anyone.
In an ideal world, we would all learn our lessons, grow and heal. ACs are the exception to that. I am learning to be grateful to my AC for the lessons he brought to my life. I am definitely not the person I was before or during my time with him. Whether they need to know that is another story. It is likely the lesson will be lost on them and may even be misinterpretted. We might still be expecting too much of them. Approach with caution. Whatever you plan to do (ie sending an email) – write it and sit with it for at least a day. If it still seems like a good idea to send it, wait another day. When you are completely sure, then you wlll know. Good luck.
Elle–
Are you the woman who helped the AC get a job?
Whether you are or not. as long as there were even small elements of AC in him (e.g., immaturity, cowardice, etc.), as long as this guy did not act like a “gentleman and scholar”, as long as this guy did not act like a MAN, then you won’t act as he should have acted (a man; a gentleman and scholar; a brave, mature man, etc.)!
Looks to me like you have already found your closure, within yourself. You do not need to email him! Stick to NC!
Some people are users and/or abusers. They grew up that way! You can not change them. Just be thankful to God that they are not part of your life anymore, and that they helped you to learn all the lessons you did learn!
My new son has love for the world, b/c he loves himself, b/c we SHOW that we love him ALL OF THE TIME. And I’ll be da**ed if he treats even one woman even only once the way I was treated by even one AC from my past!
He will be a MAN. Maybe the “Last of the Men” (a la the book: “The Last of the Mohicans”).
Also, FYI, he will be raised a Christian man, with Christian values. Which means empathy WILL be part of the picture.
Tina I like the idea of a proportional response. For true AC, off the charts ridiculous nonsense then NC is appropriate, justified and necessary. But as this post shows, some of the fault lies with us, because of our projecting and picturing and betting on potential that was never really there. While it is fun and freeing to demonize them, at some point it has to stop and the focus needs to shift back to us and our accountability.
I love the line about using him as a punch line and a punching bag and how that feeds the drama demon. I am so guilty of this. I find the only way I can still talk to my friends about the AC is to make him the butt of a joke or regale them with some tale of his outrageous behaviour. But does hating him hurt me? I think in the end it does. Forgiveness has to come at some point. Letting go of the hate and the blame for both him and me feels right or necessary at this point. A way of laying it all to rest and walking away from it.
The Bosnians have a great phrase that translates into “kiss it and leave it”. If they can do that, after the genocide that tore them apart, it seems a very small thing to apply the same concept to our assclowns. Make your peace with him, you, the relationship and then let it all go. Kiss it and leave it. Just don’t break NC to tell him.
Dee, wise words indeed.
Thanks for your kind feedback, ladies. (And yes, he is the AC I helped get a job on his stated intention that I would be moving to that new city with him, and the guy who dumped me via email a week before he was due to move into a place for the summer with me, effectively leaving me homeless as I had naturally cancelled the current lease I was in…and the guy who said that he had to leave me because he had only stayed (10 months) with me for my looks and that – ladies and gents, just so you know – wasn’t, he said, the basis for a relationship, and that he was doing the responsible thing because he knew I didn’t have the qualities he wanted in a wife – even though he had called me his fiancee to our respective parents. Yes, that’s him!)
OK. I am ditching the email idea for now. The fact that I can still describe him like that is probably telling (though I rarely tell my ‘story’ anymore and he’s seldom part of my jokes these days). In any case, I think you’re right – his response or lack thereof will be more obsessive fodder for me, and I have considered that it’s really up to him to contact me, essentially, if he ever gets the interest and courage (which is highly unlikely). I don’t want to start a friendship with this guy, I just struggle a bit with the lack of resolution and having a quasi-enemy in the world, even by appearances. I suspect I am going to have to make up my own earth mother ritual and ‘kiss it and leave it’ on my own. Like you, I do have a profound sense of gratitude for the experience, even if it hurt like a thistle-storm, and I feel like a renewed person. Still a little longer to go, I guess. I think I will wait til the end of the year, and if some sort of contact still feels like something I need to do for me to let go, I will do it. But I am hoping that it won’t.
The cycle, for me, seems to be acceptance and growth leading to a degree of objectivity (when I can see the hooks and picturing etc) and sometimes compassion, which can then lead to guilt and super responsibility (often excessive or misplaced – I do think we can overly identify with our ACs/EUMs), which then gets me back to sadness, confusion and anger (as a sort of counterbalance), which then leads to acceptance or a more proportional response again. It’s tiring! And, it’s certainly my path. I have no delusions about it being a shared journey. It is almost impossible that he would be having these insights, except in a self-justificatory way (i.e. ‘That crazy girl who I thought I was interested in then began chasing me – as every woman does – and had I been truly interested in her for anything more than her looks, I would have made the effort to be with her and give her what she deserves, but I’ve obviously done this because it’s right thing to do because I am not into her and so the nicest thing I did was leave her.).
Imperceptible, but steady confidence building for me, though, all the way through…which is great. We’ll get there!
Thanks again xxx
I am glad I found this site and come often for support and to remind myself that I will be ok, but I have to wonder if it hasn’t made me a bit cynical as well. I absolutely cop to picturing in the relationship, I now see I lived in fantasy and delusion the entire time, creating sandcastles in the sky and making him into, in my head at least, the man I wanted him to be, not the assclown EUM he really is. Like many of the other people commenting here, I began tearing him down after we broke up and I now wonder if I have gone too far. There is no denying he did some assclown things but he also did some things with the goal of not hurting me. It’s easy to write him off as a total wank and AC, but I am not sure that dismissing him completely or assuming everything he does has an evit intent is really fair or necessary either. I actually don’t think there was any malice in him, just total self-absorption and a failure to see me and my needs at all. There has to be a happy medium I think. NC has helped me get clear but seems a bit extreme now that I have distance and have removed the fantasy hooks. Are there degrees of assclown? Is it really an all or nothing thing? I’m not saying I want or need him in my life in any substantial way but I have never thrown away anyone as a complete waste before and it doesn’t feel right for some reason.
We all seem to have the same concern – about how to literally ‘come to terms’ with the situation, who we were (picturing and projecting), who they were, what they mean to us now, what they could mean to us, how forgiveness works, how much we should identify with them, how much they need to be involved in the closure, whether peace comes through them or not.
I am back to thinking that I will be able to be open to the AC, even if only a non-substantial way, when I can honestly say to myself that his behaviour doesn’t have any control over me. Unfortunately, true ACs create in their loved-ones this ‘repetitive compulsion disorder’ in which the latter becomes confused and even deranged due to the AC’s behaviour being so erratic, unaccountable and extreme.
AC is a spectrum term, and the ways we measure it is by the sorts of things this site maps out: looking at their behaviour and its correlation to words, being honest about how this person made us feel, and also examining our own boundaries – how busted they were by this person, how strong they are now, whether the AC/EUM would be truly capable of being decent or whether any sort of opening is liable to abuse or ridicule or devaluation. Are they someone you want to put energy into? Is there some common value there worth protecting? Is remaining friends or open to friendship more about our own need to never be the bad person or create bad karma?
I am struggling with this all too. But, I want to get myself to the strongest point before I consider re-engaging with my AC. I know I still need a higher vantage point.
Part of that requires that I stop demonizing and caricaturising, that I see myself in the role I was in (open-hearted, honest and reliable, but also fantasy-making and pretty spoilt), that I also see his acts of decency and attempts at love, alongside his woefulness and cruelty, but I am not sure that any of this translates into much as far as he goes. It might. But I am not convinced it does.
Be careful thinking that you’re discarding this person – like a narcissist might. Cutting someone out of your life who can trigger all your awful, bundled pain by recreating childhood stuff, is very different to having some extreme response to someone primarily out of a hurt ego, which might require some gentle, humble adjustment after some time. The former is supremely compassionate – to oneself – and wise. The latter, I think, should be a joint, caring thing. It should feel OK to do.
Anyway, this is my thinking today…
I can understand things more clearly each day -from a better perspective more set in reality. I was so hurt in the beginning by the married/lying AC that I could barely funciton. I see now that he had NO “loose ends” with me and went straight back to his wife days after telling me he loved me. He got caught up in pictoring BIG TIME with me, and I did the same, we both went way out and bet on each’s potential. Only he left a huge bit of info out by not being upfront that he was only separated/¬ divorced. He had been cheated on and I think had slumped into a depresssion when I met him… Had I known he was still married, I can tell you that my imagination would of skidded to a stop quickly!! I can see he got completely caught up in it, and would like to think he really didn’t intend to hurt me in such a way… and he revealed through talks early on that he had done much the same with his previous relationships. Whirlwind/hot/cold. Red flags I didn’t pick up on everywhere now – hindsight is 20/20.
I had to examine this closely, since I was part of something that I didn’t realize. I don’t like the fact I was so easily mislead and so easily trusting and I feel that he really took advantage of me. (I would never willing be with a married man, at any stage of his marriage.) I needed to have this time to reflect and GET REAL about how I felt in it and how I made it possible….to understand it so I can better recognize the signs for the future. I will work to forgive him, but really I don’t feel he is at all sorry, even though forgiveness is for me, I just can’t get there just yet. I am just going to work on accepting it right now and being okay with the end of it. He was not the person I thought he was at all, who I was hurt by “the most” doesn’t exist, he was an illusion I created. I will never contact him.
I have been on someone else hook and have too had people on my hook as well. Every word you say is so right and I can relate to your words having experienced relationships when exactly what you says happens. The sad thing is when you are on someone hook, you can never ever see it.
The difficulty i have with my ‘hook’ – validation – is that when other aspects of my life go down hill, i start missing the EUM, because he had me on a massive pedestal, was always very complimentary and was always going on about how he wasn’t good enough for me. It was such a boost for me (and i know someone else shouldn’t be the source of your happiness etc) but his affection and attention always made me smile (hook, hook, hook!!!). When i have stresses at work, problems with friends or family, or, like now, when i am ill with a flu/cold and feeling low, i start missing him and his attention like crazy! I miss him terribly today because i’m feeling groggy and rubbish. When my life is smoothly sailing along i don’t even want him. I know i am responsible for my own happiness, but i’m not sure how i can stop external factors bringing me down and how to stop wanting reasurrance from someone who doesn’t want me, who hasn’t contacted me for weeks and who is probably merrily leading his life and now has closure because he dumped me (after i initially dumped him for his EU behaviour). How do we validate ourselves when we’re feeling low anyway?
A great question, “how do we validate ourselves when we are feeling low?” Like you, my AC tends to reenter my mind when I am having a low day, like today. It is an interesting phenomenon and I wish it would stop. I spent the day telling myself over and over in my head that he didn’t really care for me, that his interest in me was really a reaction to my obvious interest in him. At one point, I just burst into tears, realizing that he had meant something to me and that I would have given anything for me to have really meant something to him. I have learned not to beat myself up for that, or use it to belittle myself but it remains a cold hard fact. What I felt for him wasn’t just need or validation seeking. He was important to me and I feel the loss of him in my life. I miss the fun and excitement, I do miss him, even if I didn’t always have a clear view of him. I know this will pass and that I am just feeling weepy and nostalgic for some reason. It’s not a reason to contact him (he will only make me feel worse if I do) but there is genuine sadness in the fact that at one point I truly believed he cared for me and now I have to concede that wasn’t true. I know I am responsible for my own happiness but that doesn’t always make the sadness go away. There was comfort in the story and pictures, even if they weren’t true. Maybe that’s why they are so hard to let go.
sule, i am exactly where you are today: realising that i mean nothing to this guy who was important to me, that he doesn’t care for me, even though i cared for him. I guess we have to process this information and move past it, but damn it’s hard!! I don’t want to come back to this feeling again and again every time i’m having a bad day.
Ugh.Me too!
Also having a random bad day and wouldn’t you know,
after months of NC, a message on the answering machine from the AC — “I still love you and miss you, and if you ever want to talk, I hope you will call.”
And now I miss him (okay, the *him* I made up in my head) and I wonder where all those months of clarity went.
Seriously, I am crying like a 15 year old right now,
and I hate myself for it.
Over it and Minky – I wonder if it is something in the air. Actually, I think it is this site and the thoughts it forces us to face. The idea of picturing and hooks has taken a while to sink in for me but it is helping. The extent to which so much of this was in my head. Knowing my ex is an assclown has helped immensely – when you expect nothing but more assclown behaviour, it stops me from getting hurt and he never disappoints. But coming to terms with the fact that so much of what I thought was this very important relationship was only in my head has been devastating. I know that looking to him for comfort, validation and caing is a mistake and guaranteed to end in heartache for me but there is still enough of my old patterns and behaviour that he has some power over me I haven’t gotten back yet. I don’t know why it is still important to me that he cares about me but it is. I know I shouldn’t value his opinion and that if I really cared about me I would walk away without a thought but I guess I am not there yet. I hope to be soon,as I have had more than enough of this. I am sure Natalie is sitting back, knowing how all this ends and plays out and having seen it a million times. You are helping Natalie. It just takes some of us longer than others.
Sule,
Something in the air?
Well, hope it blows away and never returns.
I know how you are feeling.
(NML has been especially brilliant the past few weeks!)
It’s helping me tonight to remember that the guy whose voice I love, whose company I am missing, and whose validation I sought, never really existed.
You’re right. It’s painful.
But for me, it’s better than thinking that guy is out there somewhere, because he is not. There is just an AC who wears a mask, and says his lines.
And for me, the show is over.
Hang in there.
We’ll all get through this together.
xo,
Over It
Ovet it@
I feel for you. I know how you feel. It is heartbereaking. Especially when they say “I still love you” or “I miss you”. Maybe try this : focus on the meaning behind the WHOLE message: “if YOU ever want to talk, I hope YOU will call.”
It’s the language of someone who wants you to do all the work; the language of someone who wants to evade the responsibility for the “love you/miss you” part; it’s coming from someone who is willing for you to deliver to him – and he will receive, on his terms, but he won’t deliver, he won’t contribute, he won’t be responsible for what happens next…
We could think more of them if the message read something more along the lines of: ‘I still love you and miss you. I hope you will give me a chance to speak to you. Please can I call you?’
But no… you have to call him, IF you want to.
The language they use to tell you how much they love us never fails to reveal the ambivalence and contradictions of these people. It’s infuriating, and shows how emotional unavailablity permeates everything with them – it oozes from every pore!
Here was my latest (for those who haven’t heard it yet) : “I will never not love you”
There’s a time it would have been music to my ears. Now I just see the words of the archetypal EUM; they could be coming at me in any order (never love not you – love you never not – love will never not you). They can commit to nothing; least of all “always”.
Don’t cry. You are strong and wise. You will be fine, He is an ass**** nothing will get bettet for him.
I got “I feel very close to you” (despite all evidence to the contrary). What does that even mean??? Shouldn’t people you are close to care about you? Respect you? Not hurt you?
Fearless,
Thanks. This helped sooo much.
And you’re perfectly correct . . .
My calling would (in his mind) absolve him of any responsibility for his behavior;
Afterall, *I* would be calling *him*.
I also like that the whole tone sort of suggests that I hurt and wronged him. “If you ever want to talk, I hope you will call.” Boo hoo.
He should have said, “if you’re ready to be jerked around and lied to again, I’m still available.”
And yours is great —
“I will never not love you.”
Totally confusing, but he throws the word “love” in there to mess with you, and make himself sound like the good guy. Thanks for nothing.
Too bad these guys never include a clear definition of what the word “love” means to them.
Anyway, thank you so much again.
I have dried my tears and am truly
feeling stronger and wiser tonight.
Best,
Over It
dee,
You point out something so interesting —
All of these remarks are so vague and noncommital,
or at least open to interpretation.
They really are perfectly indicative of AC character.
Even when they are trying to keep a hook in, or lure us back, they are very careful not to say anything that they can’t back out of if they need to.
I’m sure we interpret many similar weak *declarations* in the most positive light possible while we are in the relationship; but once we get some distance, we can more clearly hear how utlmately meaningless they are.
Ah, hindsight! It’s a b**ch.
Best,
Over It
@Over it
“He should have said, “if you’re ready to be jerked around and lied to again, I’m still available.””
Totally. Part of the ‘hook’ is the mis-information they present us with and us mis-reading it.
Their words are intended, as the above (dee?) says, to be non-committal – what they say contains so many mixed messages and ambiguities (“I will never not love you”, is my recent example), and we want to hear the good part, so we attach pictures to that part and discard the part that doesn’t seem to make any sense.
We assume they are just not very good at expressing what they really mean, or are reticent to say it with more clarity (cos they are vulnerable, and sweet wee souls!).
But, I for one, know full well that my EUM has no trouble expressing himself clearly – he is a literary critic, for god’s sake(!) who is well published in his field. He has no problem with language/words – he is not handicapped in that area at all – he is actually very gifted in it. Much better than I am (and I am not bad at it).
These people are word-smiths. Their words are carefully crafted to ensure they have an ‘out’ and to ensure they are not commiiting themselves to anything.. one way to unhook is to start interpreting their words correctly and realistically, and understanding the motivation behind them. When you are clued in and tuned in to what this is, you then see what they are saying for exactly what it means (usually, nothing!) – and so it is harder to kid yourself on, to see hooks that are actually nothing more than a greasy pole, and to create pictures for yourself based on their part-truths and slithery words.
thanks for this; I found this site a year or so ago and it has changed me completely in that time i did date another AC it was terrible I was left with so much heartbreak; I applied the NC rule immediately so that I could really give myself for once to learn more about myself and really learn to love who I am, I have issues of abandonment, self worth etc but this year I have decided to be single; and loving myself and I love myself so much for once I am in control of my life, doing the things I want to do making plans for my career, travel, my business and I now I know the right partner will come along when im ready…
the last AC because of the abrupt way i ended it left me really scarred but I am determined for a postive out come to come out of this, and I like what Natalie said about getting over someone it does take work ! – which I am doing. Also I truly believe now the right man will come my way because I have changed my expectations for a parnter as my self worth has grown!
thanks Natalie