Beneath my seemingly confident exterior, I didn’t like or love myself all that much, so I was also convinced that discovery of my ‘flaws’ would justify abandonment. When I thought they were ‘too into me’, I’d act difficult because it was ‘safer’–I could manage down their expectations and protect myself from too much disappointment.
Ironically, in my efforts to avoid/limit abandonment and rejection, I always engaged in romantic relationships that offered the least likely prospect of commitment, and that were likely to bring out those feelings of abandonment in me anyway.
The strange thing: Until I realised that I had a penchant for Mr Unavailables and discovered my own emotional unavailability and contradictory behaviour that was counterproductive to forging a healthy, committed relationship, I didn’t consciously believe that I had abandonment issues. To be fair, if you’ve always felt and thought in a certain way, it’s your normal.
In my book Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl as well as here on the blog, I’ve stressed that we subconsciously (and sometimes consciously) choose people that reflect what we believe about love, relationships, and ourselves. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.
When we have negative beliefs (treated as true even if they’re not), we act in accordance with those beliefs and end up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy that ends up confirming the very things that we believe.
Fear of abandonment means being afraid of letting someone get close enough to you (intimacy) that it would hurt if they were to leave or reject you. It’s also about the fear of the consequences of conflict because you will be afraid that conflict will result in you realising your fear of abandonment.
Despite fear of abandonment though, you go ahead and attempt to forge relationships because you’re seeking validation–confirmation that something is true.
You, on one hand, attempt to challenge your beliefs and confirm that you’re good enough, but on the other, you’re inadvertently seeking proof that your fear of abandonment is true. If you didn’t, there would no longer be a legitimate reason to keep believing the negative beliefs. You would have to change.
If you’re afraid of taking the risk, you’ll limit the opportunity to take the risk and rely on the ‘safe bet’.
By creating limited relationships with people that have a limited capacity, by that same token you limit the experience and in turn limit the pain that you’re trying to avoid or, at best, keep to a minimum.
With ‘limited hurt’, you’re not ‘stretching yourself and taking a risk and are instead opting for the ‘safe bet’. For instance, despite the pain of being the Other Woman, it still seemed ‘safer’ to bet on the fantasy of us being together, despite knowing deep down that it was futile. As a result, I wasn’t risking myself like I would have to with someone who was actually available. In fact, the ‘safe bet’ becomes ‘safe rejection’ as you expect it anyway!
The self-fulfilling prophecy is about predicting what you believe is likely to happen.
If you have negative beliefs, you’ll predict and act in line with those beliefs so that what you predict becomes a reality.
This prepares you for the eventual pain and loss that will no doubt ensue by choosing partners that tick the boxes for your beliefs and relationship pattern.
When you ‘act up’ or keep questioning whether they’re going to leave, it’s like sabotaging your relationship to bring about the prophecy of doom–they eventually end up leaving unless they’re extremely patient plus you recognise this and embrace them and deal with your own issues.
When you have hidden beliefs working overtime underneath in your subconscious, it’s amazing what you will do to keep believing– it’s familiar and comfortable pain. It’s suffering that keeps you connected to your past and blocks intimate relationships and the ability to be who you really are.
Despite my pain, because it was working with my beliefs, it was oddly familiar and comfortable, albeit the uncomfortable comfortable.
If you have a limited relationship with someone, especially any relationship that has a lot of illusions in it, they can’t ‘leave leave’ because there isn’t a real relationship to leave and there’s no real commitment. A lot of the pain that ensues is actually about how, when they leave (or we feel like they are or are going to), that any illusions that we had about them have to leave. We resist stepping into reality.
Fear of abandonment limits your capacity to love and be loved, resulting in you choosing limited experiences and limited people to make a limited contribution with so that you’re prevented from getting close enough that it will hurt to the fullest extent of your fears.
If you never really believed someone would stay or that you could hold onto them, you wouldn’t give yourself to the fullest anyway even if you convinced yourself that you were.
Unless you address your fear of abandonment, you will either live in fear that they’re going to leave, killing the relationship with insecurity anyway, choose people that are likely to leave and end up acting in sync with the drama with it ending in them leaving or, you will sabotage relationships that don’t look like they’re going to meet your prophecy because you don’t feel worthy of them.
Do you have a fear of abandonment? Have you chosen partners that offer the least likely prospect for commitment as a ‘safe bet’? Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
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Definitely fear of abandonment more than anything else. Reversing this thought process is harder than you think. You hear everyone saying love yourself and this fear goes away – not always the case. It can from time to time rear its ugly head no matter how hard you try to fight it. Sometimes it fears like a war zone inside when you are trying to stifle this old nagging voice trying to destroy your current happiness. To this day I have to fight with this one from time to time and remember who I am today – what I want from my life and shoo this nagging voice in my head away. The lies we tell ourselves and believe. Practice practice practice what you preach.
Hi Movedup, while loving yourself does have a lot to do with it, it’s addressing the hidden beliefs behind it because often they are either exaggerated or completely untrue. When I learned to love myself, the nagging voice no longer had any room because it would just get shot down.
Once again Natalie has got this down pat. I don’t know how she does it, but she words these scenarios and explanations in exactly the right way that they occur. This is actually very complex subject matter and she makes it sound easy so that you get that “Aha!” moment.
I know for a fact that I do have abandonment issues. With my childhood history, it would be a miracle of I didn’t. In looking back at the men I have chosen to be with since I became single and started dating going on 5 years soon, it seems to me that there was a clue that they were not interested in permanence, but in “having fun,” whatever that meant to them. I thought “fun” meant going on outings and enjoying the shared experience with laughter and humor. I learned, however, that to many men “fun” means just sex and no relationship.
I engage in a lot of introspection, and in analyzing myself and those creeps I was with who try to pass themselves off as men, I came to realize that I seem interested in men who have enough charm to be fun and interesting, who are physically affectionate, who like to hold hands and cuddle and snuggle, who are fun-to-be-with, who do not seem insincere, but about whom you feel that although they seem to be physically into you and they enjoy your company, they aren’t quite there with you on the emotional plane and that you have to win them over.
I think that for me it’s the being chosen and sought after that I enjoy and makes me want to be with the man. I don’t chase after men, at least not that I’m aware of. I don’t call them when we first start going out, but I do return calls as promptly as possible. I don’t even call often even after there has been some level of sexual intimacy. I don’t pay on dates. I don’t buy them things, unless it is very inexpensive little things ($30 cigar, shirt on sale for $15, a $10 pie, etc.) just to show a token of appreciation because they pay on the dates and I don’t want to be viewed as a “taker.”
Having said that, however, because I want them to want me, it might be that I select men who come across as being just enough of a challenge in that area so that he sparks my interest. Of course, if the man is unavailable, I might be sensing that and feeling interested in him because if I win him over and he “chooses” me, then that will make me feel “wanted” and “valued.”
The first guy I dated seemed somewhat flaky in terms of his history with women. The second one said he didn’t date women with children, and mine was 6 at the time. The third one was a forever single who had a very difficult personality and spent more time on his tennis pursuits than with me. The fourth one was the leader of a singles group and had been single for decades after his marriage ended and he also had a penchant for having many women friends, whom he said were strictly friends and no sex was involved. The fifth one was a “happy-hour” crowd guy who seemed very nice and respectful for the 8 months that I knew him prior to starting going out, but it seemed that women were always throwing themselves at him (short, fat, balding, grey hair, bushy eyebrows, so go figure, but oh, very wealthy, which I did not know at the time); this one was an emotional iceberg and his body would literally flinch if, away from the sofa or the bed, our bodies ran into each other in the hallway, the balcony, or what have you; he also had a habit of letting other women flirt with him and when we went to the parties he would visibly pull away from me physically and stand very straight, about 2 to 3 feet away from me. The sixth one had been married for only 1 year and his “relationships” lasted all of less than 5 months. The seventh one was 21 years older than I was and had been divorced for umpteen years; he was also from the “happy hour” crowd. The eighth one was the one that I was actually about 70% of the way in love with him and the only man that I have ever felt that intense and perfect feeling for; it felt like home to be with him, as if for decades I had been a little girl lost and afraid and then I had finally found my way home; the wife had dumped him 10 months before we met and the divorce had been final 4 months before we met on Match.com. He chased me and he seemed very interested, yet he would log on line now and again and there was a mystery Wednesday when he was on the road for work that he rarely called me on; some of the comments that he made on certain things raised red flags for me, yet I continued to see him, telling myself that no one is perfect. And that’s the last one I was with. It’s been two years and I’m still afraid of exposing my heart like that again. With that last one, a disgusting cross between a sewer rat and a sewer cockroach, things seemed so perfect, that they were better than a Hollywood movie, except for those rare glimpses into another person that I did not like, but when those glimpses occur infrequently, it’s easy to attribute it to “he’s just having a bad moment,” “he’s stressed out,” “he’s still hurting from the wife dumping him,” and the proverbial “nobody’s perfect.”
Well, that’s my story. I didn’t mean to write this much. I apologize to all. Writing this has been cathartic. Thanks to Natalie for providing a place where we can share.
Hi Lisa, It’s good to lay it down before your eyes as you can see your journey, the patterns and address the fears and beliefs behind them. You can learn a lot from your experience and grow out of it and remember, you’re wiser now so you can create a different experience in the future.
It’s only through reading this blog and serious reflection that I realized that I had abandonment issues, based on my father not being actively present in my life. It had never occurred to me that it would be an issue, as I had always felt that I handled his absence so well. Apparently, I haven’t. I treated my last relationship in the same way I had my father – it doesn’t matter if you stay or go, I know you’ll end up going, I won’t let it affect me. But of course it did and still does. And that’s not even the entire depth of the rabbit hole. Thanks for this article, it makes me take an even deeper look at self.
Hi Abandonment, Totally relate to that feeling of “it doesn’t matter if you stay or go, I know you’ll end up going, I won’t let it affect me.” Of course we underestimate how we’ll get caught up in the illusions and hope that this one will challenge the very belief that we know is negative.
Thanks for this Nat. It really opened my mind up to my own habits. How interesting I go for guys who dint validate me and don’t see my value because I think they are right and smart enough to see the “truth” (as it Is in my head). And any guys who xo genuinely like me I see as weak and desperate because they would have to be to like me right???? So insane! so glad to be working through me stuff
Hi Pal, Ties into the whole wanting the one that doesn’t want you, not because you actually want him but because you want the validation. It’s like it *has* to be someone who is unworthy of your time and energy *anyway*. It’s like conducting an experiment with faulty subjects and wondering why the test results come out skewed.
The “uncomfortable comfortable”. Know that well. The EUM and I broke up four days ago and I haven’t heard from him since. It was five months of hell, his withdrawal, his withholding everything from attention and talking to sex, taking everything I said as criticism even though I was just expressing my own needs and wants. I gave and gave and gave, staying open, being tolerant, trying to be understanding. He really is a kind hearted guy who thought he was trying hard, and I eventually worked out he was classic passive aggressive and confronted him about it (he had no idea), he has a lot of deep seated emotional issues from childhood that he has never addressed and we decided there was no point going on because it would be a long time before he could ever treat me the way I needed. I have certainly recognised my pattern of choosing the ones who can’t give it all, who are restricted in their ability to have a full, healthy relationship so now, even though that realisation was painful (I thought I was over most of my issues), it’s all about me, me, me. It’s brought me back to myself, to see all the things I love that I put down while trying to deal with someone day in and day out who exhausted and toyed with me without even knowing why he did it. I may have helped him identify his issues that he’s struggled with for years, so maybe he can no go out, deal with them and start to have healthy relationships himself. And I am now getting coaching from someone to challenge the destructive beliefs that I now see I’ve had from childhood and been acting on ever since. I can now start to recognise my purpose and manifest my happiness by dissolving all of these beliefs that hold me back. And that makes the horizon look brighter.
Thanks again for your wisdom, Nat. It’s sometimes hard to read, but I’m in a position now to take it all in, get out of stuck and work toward a life with someone who matches my positive beliefs instead.
x
Hi Anita, It’s wonderful that you’re focusing on you because if you didn’t, you’d see no light at the end of the tunnel and think he was your only option or believe the failure of the relationship was all your fault. He is limited in his ability to meet your needs and if those limits are ever going to open, it will have to be of his own accord. In the meantime, you have your own life to get on with.
Wow. I thought it was just me with this hidden belief that once my flaws were discovered, I would be abandoned. This conviction is so strong that I’ve broken up with myself at least three times rather than let the other person dump me first.
@Brokenheartedbabble Beating them to the punch – safe rejection.
I don’t know if I have issues with ‘abandonment’ or not. Perhaps. Like NML, if I do have, I have certainly have never been aware if it, and if I do have that issue I have no clue where it has come from. Though I can see I have ‘issues’.
What I have learned though, is that, whatever the reasons, I definitely tend to hook up with men who are unwilling to commit, and I now see this as a choice I make, albeit an inconscious one – up till now!
I do, for sure, relate to a fear of not being seen as ultimately good enough for the guy to stick around – so I think I probably do choose men who only serve confirm to me what I already subconsciously believe, which is that it would never work out in the long term; that the reality would would be rubbish, so they’d leave anyway, sooner or later.
As I read your post NML, it occurs to me that it could as well be written for the EUM. Both ‘he’ and ‘us’ are proceeding from an ambivalent, non-commital position, though this does perhaps play out in different waysin the relationship. Why does it though? What is the difference between his fears and ours? If we are so afraid of abandonment, why are we so keen to throw our hearts and emotions at these men with such reckless abandonment, when he seems to hold guard over his own like they were the crown jewels!
All that aside though, my new found understanding of how my own issues are driving my behaviour with my EUM also what is driving his behaviour is really helping me to see the ‘internal workings’, the engine of the relationship, and so I am becoming much more objectively aware; I am beginning to see his ‘tactics’ for exactly what they are, what part they play and what they are intended to elicit from me, and so my responses to them are much less intensely emotional and more observanty detached.
I don’t like what I see, but I do feel more empowered by it. Along with that though it also all seems very depressing and hopeless, but I did live on false hope and what I now need is to avoid believing all hope is lost (as that is crushing to all life) but to form a new and different hope for new and better things. This is my challenge.
Thanks.
Hi Fearless, I will write some more about this whole abandonment issue. It’s interesting because we all have a perception of what abandonment means much like many people think an alcoholic must be blind drunk, falling around, drinking out of a paper bag. But it is the fear that you are not good enough for them to stay and that they will eventually leave, and it’s a hidden fear often. It doesn’t have to stem from being ‘abandoned’ although for many people they have actually been abandoned in some way in early life.
Thank you for your comment NML. I agree. I think I definitely have a fear that he – whover he is – would leave eventually once the reality set in. I also probably have experienced a sense of abandonment in childhood. I always felt ‘drowned out’ by my 6 siblings – but that’s another novel!!.. .
I think, though, once I had my daughter, whose father “stepped aside”, I remained single, but also a mother, and I was very determined to provide her with loving, stable and reliable parenting etc… so after her arrival, I definetely felt fearful of getting too involved with a man in case it interered with what I knew I needed to provide for my child – but mostly because I knew I could no longer offer anyone a regular, normal dating or relationship experience – I could not be spontaneous – I had to arrange sitters – I couldn’t give anyone I dated my full attention etc… I found trying to date quite stressful, as if I was splitting myself in two and I couldn’t be all things to all people at the same time etc…
so I have had only two of what could be called ‘long term’ relationships (and v little else worthy of even a mention in between). Both these guys were already attached, so they were not demansing of my time or my space and kept their distance, and that suited me – or, at least, it suited my situation.
The first one lasted just less than two years and is long gone fifteen years ago – took me ages to get over him. I loved him desperately.
The current one has been on and off for nine years… I am trying to move on now. My child is now 21yrs. so I think I can now afford to be more choosey! But I now fear I am too old! And I have no appetite for “looking for a man”. I am not sure I even like men – or need one – very much!!
I also now think I know what people mean when they say ‘all the best men are taken’ – I think maybe those who are now in my ‘pool’ will be all the commitment phobes or assclowns… decent men of around my age (late 40’s) who are looking for committed, bona fide relationships are the very men who will already be in them!
Anyway… thanks.
Hey Nat, do you have any ideas or thoughts on how to heal old abadonment issues or wounds?
It’s a really hard one to deal with because you do keep picking someone who will leave you, the evidence keeps mounting up. Can be hard to break through. I use tools like::
– soothing self talk like I am lovable 🙂
– mantras like- you will be ok no matter what
– logic !!! When emotions run rampant
– looking after the small girl within who is still hurt
– trying to revisit old abadonment issues from a now adult perspective
– are by fears reality based?
Things like that but it’s freakin hard !!!
Hugs to everyone
Columbia – Yes will definitely put together some tips but the first thing is addressing the beliefs behind the abandonment. Getting conscious about those makes a huge amount of difference.
It is very true for me that I have abandonment issues too. Most of this post is true about my behaviour in relationships. I did predict the end of my last relationship and it happened exactly as I feared it would. I also feared he was lying to me, and he was. I can also see how I seek validation by “checking in” with him on his feelings to make sure he’s still on the same wave length, and I was displaying insecurity. Most of the men I have dated have been completely enamored with me (as oppposed to me with them), always intense passion in the beginning, and put me on a pedastal and were over affectionate, generous with gifts and flowers, and possesive. And that eventuall died down, and things normalized, and the affectionate displays stopped, I felt he was loosing interest and began to doubt his “true” love for me.
Really, deep down, I didn’t believe most of them had what it took to stay with me. Self fulfilling my own beliefs.
Thanks NML for another great post!
LW, you’re very welcome. It’s good to address your beliefs about what a relationship should be like because the reality is the intensity at the beginning will slow down. In a healthy relationship it grows into something steady and sustainable and in an unhealthy one, you’ll find it regresses and eventually peters out. The trouble is that many people have beliefs about what should happen after the ‘beginning’ that you may at times think someone is losing interest when they are not and inadvertently sabotage it.
This article hits home I too was abandon by my dad as he drank most of my life and was not there by any means in an emotional way.The guys that will abandon me treat me mean disappear and then show upweeks later I gravitate to Freud calls this repetition compulsion repeating your trauma no matter how bad it was, the nice loving guys whom are capable of a intimate relationships I run towards the freakin hills LOL i have to laugh because its a total trip.It takes work and clarity on your past and yes taking that risks of forming a healthy loving relationship with someone whom deserves you Adaku….
Hi Adaku, It is ultimately, like you say, being very honest with yourself. Once you’re very conscious about where you have been and what you do, it actually is very difficult to continue to repeat the behaviour as it’s like you’re armed with too much knowledge.
NML – what if *I* am the one who is afraid i will run from HIM once we’re close in a relationship? Things can be going great but suddenly i feel panicked and begin to doubt this is “right”. I may not even have a valid reason WHY it’s not “right” and it may feel very right but i feel the need to push them away and be single and have my space and freedom.
YES I was abandoned , by Mom (physically) and Dad (emotionally/alcoholism) at the SAME TIME. I think yes i have a fear of abandonment but it’s lying dormant UNDER the urge to run once I’m getting close to someone and i’m not sure if it’s “right”. It may feel “right” NOW but the fear of committing is high, what if it’s not “right” and i’m missing out on whoever IS?!
Is commitment phobia the same as abandonment phobia at the root?
ps i should add that as a single person who RARELY dates i am not lonely, i feel happy on my own but i do crave companionship and sex of course
Hi everyone
I thought I was doing really well and today all the pain hit again, it’s like being in the ocean happily swimming then suddenly the weather changes and you are being dumped by wave after wave so big that you’re drowning and can’t get out. My heart aches at the feeling of being truly loved… most ‘normal’ relationships I’ve been in the guy has held back, but with my EU/AC he was so passionate with his words and yes, sexually, that I felt I’d found heaven. I felt it was the biggest love I’d had in my life but it was the biggest crock now that’s he’s split, still without saying a word to me… no doubt slipped back into his ‘family man’ mode as if I don’t exist. Only thing is, he made me believe that huge love was possible, and now I feel so cruelly dumped by that wave that raised me up. It was too good to be true, but please life show me that this isn’t the way it’s always going to go. That I gave my all to him and yet was abandoned as if invisible and treated as almost inhuman like I shouldn’t have any feelings. I chose the bloody grim reaper here – today I feel like he may as well have just taken me with his bloody axe, hopefully tomorrow will be better. Thanks for all being here, Dianna
Hey Dianna,
You will feel and see things better soon. You pretty much have to submit to the process of healing, and try not, if you can (and this is really difficult) to make too many judgments right now – i.e. no judgments about life and love. It’s not to judge right now.
The questions this site asks – about abandonment, about illusion/ fantasy, about boundaries – are all hugely beneficial. But when you’re in the pain you’re in, probably best just to tackle one or two themes, and spend the rest of the time nurturing yourself like you’re a hospital patient. You need to get yourself to a physical and emotional point before you can get to the heart of what was going on. But, in the meantime, while you’re still so hurt, don’t add other fears, like love never being possible or this being the only version of love. It will just torment you. Go back to the basics, like exercise, dancing, and small tasks like writing down your relationship boundaries.
Hi Dianna, There will be good days and bad and when you learn to recognise that breakups hurt and that some days will be harder than others, the ability for bad days to blindside and derail you is lessened. Words on their own, are just that, words. Without actions he is a hollow man. It doesn’t matter what he said – he didn’t deliver.
NML said “Words on their own, are just that, words. Without actions he is a hollow man. It doesn’t matter what he said – he didn’t deliver.” AMEN! Standing ovation!!!! Those two lines sum it up for me in a nutshell!
Hi Columbia, sounds like we had the same parents!
I always thought that my biggest problem was dealing with my Mum leaving us ( I was about 8 I think) and when I ended up in therapy, thanks to the EUM, I was sure that dealing with the feelings of abandonment due to this were the key to my patterns of self destructive behaviour.
Well whilst this was perhaps the most obvious issue, it took me another 5 years of therapy and even worse behaviour from the EUM to realise that having a present but not emotionally present narcissistic alchoholic father is equally devatasting.
I am only now beginning to realise that repeated abandonments have a profound effect, Like you I have specialised in falling for men who have absolutely no chance of staying around in a loving and supportive way.
Only recently has it hit me that my pattern of lovers and friends has reinforced these negative beliefs in myself. The people who really care about me seem like nice but naive people. Only now can I see that this is because deep down I don’t expect anyone to care/listen/.be honest – all because I never had that as a child.
It’s been a painful revelation, but necessary. Like the EUM we too have a get out of jail card somewhere, we don’t choose partners who will stay around because this is just too alien.
Knowing this is a small step forward and I guess now the future is up to us.
Notsosadthing – I’m glad you realise how necessary it is to face the pain of the truth. It will free you especially as you know where you’ve been and you don’t want to keep recreating that experience. Putting those things to rest and addressing your beliefs will make a huge difference. It is amazing how we can often think it’s one parent and then it turns out is was the other one. As I’ve said to my own mum, you don’t need to literally leave to abandon someone – you don’t get brownie points for staying but being emotionally absent anyway or doing things that are painful and destructive.
Hi Columbia, Absolutely but you running is a pre-emptive and protective measure because you have a fear of intimacy because you’ll believe that if you allow someone to get that close that it will hurt to leave. When you get signs that it could develop in that direction, you will find your exit strategy. You associate commitment with intimacy and the potential of being abandoned. If you deal with what your real beliefs are about commitment, you will find that they are intertwined with what you perceive intimacy to do for you – On one hand it will feel good and on the other it will make you vulnerable and you don’t like being vulnerable so you try not to let it get too far.
Natalie –
“A lot of the pain that ensues is actually about how when they leave (or we feel like they are or are going to) that any illusions that we had about them have to leave and we resist stepping into reality”.
Spot on where I am right now. The AC and I have been NC for 2.5 months, and yet for the past week I have really been struggling for some reason. Part of it seems to be the last gasps of letting go of the illusions I held of him and the hope I had for the relationship. I have come to see him clearly – he is a total waste of time AC – but I keep having melancholy flashes back to the beginning of the relationship and how much fun it was, how sure I was he liked me and it was going to work out. I miss the old him, the fake him, the him that never existed. I have been working on me like crazy, trying to identify the fears and beliefs that caused me to attract him (and put up with him, even in the face of all the nonsense). I am not sure abandonment specifically is an issue – I can’t say I have ever felt abandoned. It is also interesting to me that I feel on some level all relationships end, since my folks are still married after 50 years. I know, like Fearless, that I don’t feel good enough to hold a man for long and I guess insecurity and low self-esteem can substitute for abandonment. I certainly see the self-fullfilling prophecy concept, but not for one second did I feel like the relationship with the AC wasn’t going to work out. I was holding on to the bitter end, trying and working and couldn’t believe we weren’t going to make it. I get the larger picture, that I was trying to do that with someone who didn’t want to do it with me, but I don’t feel I could have tried any harder and almost still can’t believe that I didn’t expect it to work out. Some small part of me still is keeping a small flickering ember of hope alive, even though I know he’s an assclown that moved on well before he physically moved on. I am struggling with this one. While I absolutely get the concept, it doesn’t feel right somehow. Maybe I’m still not seeing it yet.
Hi Sule, You’re grieving the loss of the relationship and part of that is going through denial, anger etc and you will flit back and forth through the stages because you are processing what has happened and eventually getting to acceptance if you keep your feet in reality. Sometimes, as some sort of protective measure, we only feed ourselves as much truth as what we can handle at that time, gradually processing it in chunks. If you’re steadfastly focused on moving forward, you will gradually stop denying and accept the truth. It’s only those who stay in denial that won’t process those chunks of information because they don’t want to.
Re trying hard to the bitter end, ultimately when we are not with people who have a genuine prospect of offering a healthy committed relationship, while we no doubt try to make it work, it is limited effort because you’re not trying with someone and something that actually has a cats hope in hell of working out. Self-fulfilling prophecy. You’d be stretching yourself more if you tried to work at a healthy relationship. AC’s are called AC’s for a reason – you have to ask yourself why you’re trying to get a relationship that is fundamentally incompatible to work.
@ Columbia
I did/do the same thing … to guys, family and friends. I bailed with, what I now see, was alarming regularity when I felt things had the potential to move to a deeper level of “getting to know me”. I can see now I was leaving them before they had the chance to see the “real” me and then leave me… cos once they saw the “real” me they wouldn’t want to stay. I see now I made so many assumptions about their beliefs and behaviours and based my actions/feelings on those assumptions. So it was “safer” to abandon them ….. and then feel lonely, hurt, unloveable, ashamed, untrustworthy.
So, in dating, as an UAF I sought out UAMs to help maintain this status quo and I became more and more disconnected from myself leading to a complete breakdown. I am now learning, with help, to understand my subconscious beliefs and how that drove my behaviours to re-enforce those beliefs. It’s hard work but I’m slowly beginning to challenge my assumptions about myself and other people and am now trying to live my life with integrity.
Hi Goreygal – your fear of intimacy and letting them get close is tied too, to your fear of abandonment. You’re sabotaging all of your relationships in the process but the great thing is that you’re unraveling the beliefs and giving yourself a chance to experience healthy relationships and intimacy.
Great post, Natalie. After a bit of a panicky week, triggered by news of AC’s successes (thanks to those who gave me some sympathy), I had a realization this morning that I am just fighting too much. I am also seeing myself as way too important, and overlooking all the times I have mistreated or let down people, especially those people who have loved me. For goodness sakes, my ex before the AC installed my computer and brought around kitchen supplies to my new place after I ended things with him.
What I am trying to say is that while these ACs treat people hideously (and not all poor behaviour is equivalent), I have decided that their behaviour is a lot like my behaviour – flawed, human behaviour – only in concentrated form, just as their motivations and impulses for doing what they do is a tightly wound up version of my own insecurities and childhood reactions. I guess I realized, having been pulled out of the fog by this site and advice and love from friends and family (especially NML’s reminder to love oneself, go back to oneself!), it was getting a bit too much being on my high horse against the AC, who had long since bolted. I don’t mean to suggest that we have to show any active compassion for these men – that would be patronising and probably quite dangerous and approval-seeking – but I think the separateness can get out of hand, we can go over and over the facts, exaggerate our positions, amp up their actions and tie their words to ourselves through these polarities. I think the AC has to be seen eye-to-eye, as an equal, as a concentrated projection of your own stuff, as well as someone completely different, with their own sorrows and instincts, on their own journey. They’re just not that special, and we’re not that special either…in the nicest way.
I am definitely messing around with intimacy, claiming I want it, but then subjecting good guys to unrealistic tests, finding emotionally distant (but polite) men to let me have my own space, but then resenting them for not ‘knowing’ me (for not creating drama or push-back), and, then came my last foray, into the land of emotionally and physically aggressive men (my first AC), and finding that the most comfortable. It meant I could be a nurturer and a dart board at once, and like other readers, I also convinced myself that this was the relationship that would last the longest.
That’s what the screwy thing I have to deal with is….and it’s the essential thing that I have been shown through this experience: that on some level, I find narcissistic, critical, ‘impressive’ men the most comfortable because I am used to equating negative attention, idolization, competitiveness, and control/something to fight against and prove oneself against, even if silently, with love. It’s how I was treated by and perceived my father, and even my mother said to me about the AC, when I confided that he was capable of being a ‘bit of an arsehole’, ‘It’s good for you to have a bit of an arsehole. You need a bit of an arsehole to keep you in the relationship.’ WTF? (As an aside, one of my sisters is gay and admits that it’s mostly because she still fears my father and brothers, and my other sister is with a good man, but one who is also sharp-tongued and difficult.)
But, such a big part of me says ‘No’ to all of this. I have always said ‘No’ to this. It’s how I made it through. I really want a good guy, I want to stop making things comfortably uncomfortable, I want to stop thinking that I need to get the ‘world’s’ approval and adoration before I can get on with the hardest, and most graceful thing: loving someone right next to you, realizing they are another person, that there’s another person in it. I really think I need to have a bit more humility. I can be awfully attached to and precious about my ‘story’ and it’s just a story. I think you really have to strip it down to the barest of themes and questions, and, as this site always encourages, take the EUM/AC out of it, as quickly and bravely as you can and start with yourself and the day ahead.
Elle – Beautiful and thoughtful words. I have felt the same at many times. It’s easy to demonize the AC but in most regards, he is just a more honest, concentrated version of ourselves. We are all in pain, all trying to get our needs met the only ways we know how – through bad habits and patterns long established. While I can’t say I have or would ever treat anyone with the callous disregard my assclown treated me, I certainly have not been willing to forgive and forget or re-establish a civil working relationship with him. I don’t know that I am a better person than he, perhaps just more willing to be introspective and to hold myself accountable for my words and actions. That I wanted a long loving relationship and he didn’t doesn’t make him evil – its pretending that he did and then slowly changing the goal posts that made it all so painful. It never ceases to amaze me how easily we can see in others what we cannot see in ourselves. As I was reading up on commitment phobia, trying to deal with his issues, it never once occurred to me that they might be mine. While every fibre of my being wanted to be in a stable relationship with this man, it does beg the question – why this man and no other? Why am I investing so much when I am getting so little in return? These are among the great unanswerable questions we come to this site to think on and wonder.
I have noticed a few women remarking that this weekend is hard for them, and it is hard for me as well. I thought I was doing so well, was so over him. Now he’s back as a ghost, lingering in every room, every thought. I don’t want contact or interaction but there seems to be some part of me that cannot let him go completely just yet. I am wondering if there are still lessons to be learned or am I just stuck? Why is there an odd comfort in constantly referencing the most painful period in my life?
Thanks Dee. I think suffering can be addictive, a familiar companion, even if one that makes us feel bad. It’s the same as being with an AC or someone who is likely to abandon us or overly attach to us. Make something. That’s what I would recommend. Make a cake or write or knit, make some space for joy and peace, and then see whether a new lesson emerges. But don’t whip yourself for an insight.
Hi Elle
Thanks for your kind words earlier, I am gently reclaiming myself, with the help of this site and everyone here including yourself.
I had a ‘bingo’ moment reading your words here, realising that I concluded that because my EUM/AC had such an unavailable life, that not many people would be able to fit with it, and if I put the effort in that he would never leave.
But irresponsible people create false responsibility, using control as a means to ensure they never do what is truly right for others, just what they want. As soon as they feel obligated (in their view controlled) that they are asked to be responsible, they will leave (because otherwise they would have to be genuinely responsible and not just put on a show).
That’s one of the reasons I felt he was so right for me, because who else would be able to handle his ‘situation’ except martyr me? Die on the sword if I have to, all except that I mistakenly went into proving my worthiness through endurance of obstacles, thinking it was guaranteeing me his devotion and love. But someone offering devotion and love will never put someone through that many obstacles! I can now see that him being unavailable would ultimately one day mean he was unavailable to be with me. That his unavailability didn’t make him a ‘leper’ that only my love would heal and we’d be happily ever after… that his unavailability would somehow make him devoted and appreciative towards me, when it’s exactly the opposite! It’s also clear that in some ways I am as irresponsible as he is, for not taking better care of my heart and really being centred in myself when it comes to love and relationships. Thanks, Dianna
Elle, yet again, you write a comment that totally blows me away and reminds me of exactly why I have comments on posts. You are literally taking something, reflecting on it, and looking at it and seeing your part in it and addressing your own thinking and behaviours. I admire your honesty and willingness to take the focus off them and bring it back to you. What you have written is so similar to my own epiphany where I recognised myself as a common denominator and that if I was willing to be with these people, I had to look at what I was doing and get off my high horse. Before that, I thought I was a victim of bad luck and bad men! Ultimately, when we’re focusing on them, they’re getting on with their merry lives anyway. When we focus on ourselves, we can get on with our own lives. Thank you for a fantastic comment – spot on. xx
Some of the comments to this article have triggered a question or two in my mind and these are for NML… Are the AC’s irredeemable? To clarify I am not about ‘saving’, or the dark descent into co-dependency in either sex but it seems to me that if we say they are not, or completely not,then are we saying that everyone who is flawed(ourselves included) must be written off altogether and forever… if we behave with boundaries,watch for red flags,don’t get sexual too quickly etc and they change …are they or were they ever AC’S? Weren’t they just human beings who were flawed, acting up,users for a time , abandonment sufferers…in fact weren’t they just us.?
I read these long,intensely heartfelt posts and post some myself and sometimes I feel tied in knots. Second question -why are we posting? We are women who have loved men deeply, we articulate this, ventilate, search for reasons,we find solutions in your articles which we either use for good in our lives or perhaps unwittingly bend to make fit an unhealthy situation. I ‘m trying to be scrupulously honest, sometimes your articles resonate ‘in time’ for us, (we are undergoing the situation as your pen lifts from the page..).’thats me’ I’ve heard myself say….sometimes its true, sometimes I need to go away and really consider and reflect on my situation in reaction to your article. I am capable of knee- jerk reactions when I feel moved by your and others posts on this site. Knee jerk reactions that as I ‘ve been on this site have modified and changed, I now read an article and reflect before posting…..
My questions again, are they the AC’s irredeemable? and ‘Why do we post if they are not?
I guess the question is why is it important for them to be redeemable or irredeemable? Unless there is a personal vested interest in it (validation), then if and when an AC sees the light, you won’t be able to see that as you’ll (hopefully) be living your life. Basically the ‘rewards’ are not there to reap.
Anyone in theory can redeem themselves but it is up to them as individuals to choose to do that, not others. Emotionally unavailable and commitment resistant people can change and do so all the time. They don’t do it a moment sooner before they want to and it’s for their own benefit not someone else’s.
AC’s if they experience something that connects the dots with their actions and causes a massive epiphany, then yes. But I wouldn’t bank on it especially as to be an AC you have to be detached from the consequences of your actions, deluded, and lacking in empathy. They’d need to see themselves as part of the problem – the trouble with Ac’s is that as long as they don’t experience any real consequences and keep pressing the reset button, there is no impetus to change. When they experience major consequences (to them) – they change.
While people’s comments are often centred on them (ACs) ultimately it’s part of the process of dodging putting the focus on themselves until they realise that they have to take the focus off them and bring it back to themselves.
You are all separate to your ACs even if you don’t realise. Your growth is not dependent on theirs. Just because you strive to overcome your issues doesn’t mean they will.
Yes, they do change. I’ve seen it up close. BUT IT WILL BE WITH A NEW WOMAN. I am afraid that the Fallback Girl will not fit in with the New Him. He will be looking to make a fresh start with someone new, where there is no bad history and with someone he respects, who hasn’t put up with his bad behaviour for months or years.
This doesn’t make YOU a less worthwhile person, but it does mean you should cut and run and YOU make a fresh start with someone new.
I suppose there is the odd exception, but I’ve personally never witnessed it, and looking at this site, no one else here has either!
Grace – amen! Very well said!
“Habitual Mr Unavailables don’t change – “ they morph to suit their agenda. When they’re still living the bachelor life and they’re pushing 50, it suddenly occurs to them that they might not still have the ‘magic’ and that they should get a ‘girl’ to settle down with, after all, their egos can’t cope without a constant stroking. They fear committing to letting you go and they fear committing to the relationship in it’s entirety and like to focus on isolated chunks.”
I don’t know, I’m confused, have to buy the book and read it all.:) It’s true, the question, if they can change or not is not so relevant, the focus should be on us and our healing process, but still, we talk about it. Until we get to the point, when we’re ready to really let it go, it’s gonna be like this. Well for me, Mr. Unavaliables had a big part in my life, if I’m totally honest, i never ever dated a guy that wasn’t unavaliable. I just always thought that i have a thing for bad boys;) So now i have this feeling, that in order for me to truly move on (and I’m a lot better now then i was about a month ago:) i have to understand them first. So I don’t make the same mistakes. Btw i have 2 brothers who treat women like crap and an old gigolo for a father, who’s girlfriend is the same age as me. What i wanna say is, that I’m used to this;) Was i abandoned? Yes, a lot of times. My father just wanted to see if he can get his daughter back and then it was ok for him not to call me for another year. It was pretty much like this for all my life, once on my birthday, his secretary called me cause he was to “busy”;). It’s funny to me now, but OMG do i have problems cause of this kind of crap. I’m 100% sure the guy will dump me if I don’t morph myself to his needs. And yeah, i date guys who are me me me all the way, his problems, his succeses, his life…
I could say that i pick habitually unavaliable guys, they all had a rather dubious dating history. And then, when the problems start, and yes, they always do, my girlfriends say, that i find this guys when they are in their “bad” phase, and they will grow out of it. I don’t wanna call the assclowns (although they probably are), especially not my brothers, but they sure are unavaliable!
So, maybe i just want to understand, it these guys really grow out of it. I know that my dad’s gonna be the same, but what about my brothers and my exes?? Does something big has to happen in order for them to become connected?
thanks a lot u guys!
xoxo
They may grow out of it. At some point they may wonder if getting a new woman every two years is actually fulfilling. Or maybe there is a crisis, such as their father dying. Or they have a heart attack. However, there is NO INCENTIVE for him to change if he has a Fallback Girl ready and willing to constantly love him and stroke his ego. Think about it, why would he? He’s got a woman, he’s got a harem of women to fall back on, he’s happy.
And forget about nagging and preaching to him to change. He ain’t listening.
heeey grace!
tnx for the advice:) i really appreciate it! well, I’m not a fallback girl any more, I haven’t talked to the latest Mr. Unavaliable since we “broke up” and i have no problem with this. It feels good:)
Yeah, maybe they realise they don’t want a different girl every 2 years, but in my dad’s case, he just wanted some kinds and a family, and didn’t really change his ways too much. He was still pretty much an asscclown I’m afraid:) I’m sure he loves us kids but not in a deep kind of way, it’s hard to explain, the love was never unconditional, i’m sure of that. And he was a serial cheater, with all his wifes and girlfriends.
so, i don’t know, maybe something big has to happen, I’m pretty much sure they don’t change just because they meet a healthy woman with clear boundries who isn’t prepared to deal with an EUM or AC… they don’t change because they “fall in love” with some women and sudenly become in touch with their feelings and connected…
they have to be connected and avaliable to truly fall in love, so i don’t know…
I’m done chasing them and I’m surely not waiting for them to change, if they are, I’m just wondering, why they change, and when does that happen. Is it because they meet a woman who isn’t prepared to put up with their sh** or for some other reason.
I don’t know, but i would be happy if my brothers change their ways eventually, even though they had a poor rolemodel of a father.
Any thoughts???
thanks and lots of hugs to you all:)
xoxo
I imagine part of Lesley’s question about redemption comes from, as she suggests, a generosity of spirit. I posted a couple of weeks ago when I wanted to contact my AC, when I suddenly felt like NC was a childish and intimate burden (and rubbed against some of my barest, residual religious thinking – forgiveness!).
When you’re going through all this growth, it’s hard sometimes not to want to rewrite how things were left off with this person, to not share all these new insights and perspectives, to allow them learn from you, as you’ve learned from others, to be generous, to heal and help them, and, let’s be honest, to some degree, let them experience a you that is more grounded and serene (to get a different final word in!). In any case, I can totally relate to Lesley’s feelings of wanting to do something to share goodness.
But I am beginning to be increasingly certain that the best approach – and ‘best’ meaning: best for me, best for him, therefore best for the world – is for me to just decide that I know that his behaviour was lacking in judgment and integrity at best, slightly psychopathic at worst, to pull that down from this mystical, astounding behaviour to very human, earthy (as shit) behaviour, and then send out, in my thoughts (not to him personally), that I wish him well and am grateful to him for all the things my experiences with him and my responses to his behaviour taught me (emotionally painful, but financially cheap therapy, really), and then get on with practising my own boundaries and small, daily steps in self-esteem building.
This will probably be revised. But that’s where I am at with it. I find I go backwards when I make it about his growth. It becomes tainted, even slightly competitive and high-handed (which is the main reason I haven’t contacted him – He still vexes my spirit and I am not entirely sure of my motives!). He may learn, and I suspect, in my case, he probably will be a healthy partner one day (he’s a sentimental person, about to start a ‘caring’ profession and has the good-looking, charming male privilege of being able to screw up a few more times over a few more years to learn). But, he’s far more likely to learn with me out of his life than in it, actually. He’s not going to redeem himself through me. For him, I am too extreme a lesson, or peek into his inadequacies.
My primary motivation for NC is me, and my future, but I do think that if I have any love for this person, in the humane sense, staying out of his life, letting him take charge of his own growth at his own speed, is far more truly loving, than instructing him. If he does redeem himself, he will let me know in a small way. If he doesn’t, he won’t. Either way, I will be in a better place, and, if I do find out he’s changed, it will come as a nice thing, but not a necessary one.
But these are all tentative ideas.
(And, just for something less intense – had a very promising, relaxed breakfast date this morning, and was very good at keeping it light and fun, diverting any ‘future’ themes that he threw at me, and it was a welcome confidence-booster – this guy was just being far more naturally attentive and calmly appreciative than AC had ever been. Feel like I am back to normal behaviour. Had to remind myself that AC might be more impressive than breakfast boy, but impressive doesn’t count in the context of a relationship. His intellect and wit did not make me feel good. Now, that’s straight from this site! Thanks!)
Finally, thanks for the sweet message, Natalie. I am glad you can relate my progress to your own. You know intellectually that you’ll probably get through, but it helps so much to know that someone actually has!
Elle – I love your posts and your thoughts here. I also like that you are honest enough to say one of the reasons we want to contact them after all our change and growth is to show them the new, calmer, more spiritual us. It took me a long time to get that I am not responsible for my AC’s lessons and that focusing on him only kept me from working on my own. One of the things that held me up was that I took every single lesson I learned on this site and from other sources and first applied it to him (it was easy to see he had abandonment issues, intimacy issues, commitment issues) and then only slowly and reluctantly applied it to myself.
I appreciate your willingness to write about where you are, because it helps me to know that getting through this is possible, that there are good days and bad days and that how you feel one day may not reflect how you feel the next. I have been NC for almost three months now and while I first started it in the hopes he would come running, I have continued for my sanity and my peace of mind (we work together and it has been tough seeing him everyday and having to stay professional). Part of the problem is that I keep remembering the guy from the golden beginning, when his words and actions matched and he got it right, did everything right, suggesting that he is capable of it. He just couldn’t sustain it or let it grow into anything real.
Acceptance of what is has been the hardest for me. Truly getting, in my mind, heart and soul, that this was only meant to be a lesson, not the relationship I had hoped. Whether it ever turns into a lesson for him remains to be seen (although all indications are it has not -he moved on instantly and has never said a word to me since).
Thank you for sharing. You sound calm, peaceful and happy. You give me hope.
Lesley – Although your questions are to NML, they have gotten me thinking. If ACs are irredeemable, then so are we. Everyone must be capable of change or no one is. The difference might be that the pain we feel, the suffering we experience prompts our soul searching and introspection, while, for my AC at least, they move on with virtually no thought or rearward thinking. Although it is a recent discovery, I have begun to hold myself accountable for my own misery and see my role in my bad relationships (a true revelation, prompted in no small part due to this site). I have yet to see any evidence that my AC holds himself accountable for anything, much less the pain he caused, but I am not so jaded as to believe he is not capable of it. It is not for me to decide his lessons (although I certainly tried to throughout the relationship – another valuable lesson from NML!). When (and if) he is ready, he will begin to grow and become more self-aware. Change is hard, particularly change of this magnitude but if I believed for a second it wasn’t possible, that would be too soul destroying and hopeless to ponder. I have already changed and grown as a result of this. If he hasn’t, it wasn’t his time.
As for why we post – because NML is kind and loving enough to provide us a forum and a voice and to give us a safe, honest community where we can come and release all that is inside us. It helps. Most of us have probably exhausted our friends with endless talk of our failed relationship. This is a way of working through some difficult thoughts, feelings and discoveries and I, for one, am eternally grateful it is here. I would hate to think where I would be now if it weren’t. I know we all get low, we all have highs and lows during our recovery and growth and I wish you the best in yours. Peace may be the most we can ask for some days.
Thankyou Dee and NML, (Dee, my questions were’nt posted to question the value of this site, the articles and post’s are a stand alone revelation to me..and I ‘ve been posting for a wee while now about my own situations and have felt the love…x )but to simply put out there what I feel at times about these men… Although I feel able and very willing to manage my own behaviour, and do take daily responsibility for that, I guess my failing(and it is a failing), is to retain hope that AC’S may change. I too, have seen very little to prove that there is real empathy in these guys. They have the measure of acting empathic to be sure,but with little resonance.. Yet, and (perhaps its my spirituality here), I believe all actions can have a ripple effect…if we close down an AC’s actions towards us by acting from a secure sense of ourselves,sticking to boundaries, being consistent… I have to believe that at some point in the future he may reflect on that in his treatment of other women or in his ideas on women in general. This is where I differ from you slightly NML, my growth is my own in how it transforms my life to calmness or optimism or stability but my growth is also the AC’S if my consistent behaviour brings them up sharp or causes future reflection on their part. Thankyou for getting back it was appreciated Lesley
Lesley, I’ll be honest with you. I see thousands of emails and comments each year that have a theme running through them – a hope that the AC will change. Sticking to boundaries, being authentic etc is about you, not them. You’re not treating yourself well so that they can get a message – you’re treating yourself well so that YOU can get a message. Millions of women have a belief that love is about having the power to get someone to change. Millions of women also seek post breakup validation in the form of their ex AC or Mr Unavailable changing. To think that your behaviour would have that much of an impact is to suggest that you have the power to stop them from being deluded about their actions and change their mode of behaviour. You still need to ask yourself why it is so important for them to reflect on their part. At the end of the day, he may already have reflected on his part and drawn a conclusion that doesn’t concur with what you think. What do you do then?
When I experienced major change in my life and put boundaries and self-love into my existence, there was a period of time when I hoped what I was experiencing would rub off on him, the guy with a girlfriend. Then I got wise and realised that whatever connection I thought we had and whatever ideas I have about him, he is what he is and wasn’t going to piss away another second of my life trying to get him to be or do what I had determined would be good for him to see about himself.
When we hope for someone to change and see their part in things, you can translate it to: I hope that someone will change into the man I hoped/wanted them to be and I hope that they will see their part in things in the way that I have seen it. You want to be right and you want to be validated. None of us like to think we have been with someone who is *that* much of a jackass that he’d still be that way in a gazillion years time, but you know what, sometimes, even often, we do. We are human, we make mistakes, and sometimes we build sandcastles in the sky. We can spend the rest of our days hoping for the various men in our lives both past and present to change, or we can finally realise that we are 100% accountable for ourselves and our experience as they are theirs and that we have to start living some time.
Thanks Natalie, like always I go away from posts, reflect,return. Your comments stop me up short… I rallied against them for a bit, then gave in. Yes, In brief I was in one awful AC relationship for five years, I felt I got sane and content with myself after that. Did some of the work on myself you suggest instinctively and am going on with this due to your site ,two years celibate, celebrating what I was/wanted to be. Then I went back out dating,fell I think, at first hurdle…but got out because of my strong boundaries early. Well… he dumped me after I called him on some very bad behaviour… You have shown me that although I am out of the recent situation,recovering quickly, my massive ego tells me’How the f… did I fall for this again’, after all the work I put in. He was a subtle, shallow guy… Yup, you are right I am seeking to confirm that I am cleverer than I am. We perhaps hold onto our intellect or try to, when our heart is bruised… One positive thing,my recovery is quicker, my obsessions less due to work I put in and your site’s message. Thankyou for your time and comments to me Lesx
You know Natalie, you are really right in saying that the AC/EUM may know why he is like he is, and why he doesn’t want to/cannot change. In fact, when my AC/EUM he is (probably a bit of both) went awol Xmas 2009 and i had to txt message to ask were he was, leave messages on his answerphone at home etc, because i genuinely wondered where he was – i had been out with him the day before he vanished and with absolutely no suspicions. He had never done this before and i thought he was ill etc, he txt me back to say ‘i think the problem is i can never be the man you want me to be’. This statement confused me as i had never wanted him to be any different than he was, his behaviour towards me before this had always been respectful, loving, caring and he called me ‘my girl’, bought me so many expensive things (not that i needed/wanted them) and was genuinely good to me, otherwise i would not have been with him in the first place anyway.
When he came back to me Xmas Eve and looked shamefaced at me when he walked through the door i thought it was because he had gone awol and worried me. I now know the reason why, but at that point it took another 6 months to find out he had been cheating on me. I never saw any signs which indicated he was, but i did notice a change in his attitude towards me as time went on insofar as he started to be disrespectful in public on occasion, he told me on one occasion my neck was starting to sag, and when i misheard what he said on another occasion (he did tend to mumble), he said i needed to get a hearing aid. I just laughed it off and said we perhaps needed to start commenting on things wrong with his body! He did not like that comment. Then he hit me with a wedding invite i was not invited to and, of course, the rest is history. He was taking this OW and her family and not myself. I dont know which hurt me more, the deceit involved from him, or the fact that this OW when i found out about her told me herself.
So this site has been a great eye opener and a guide to healing for which i am truly grateful. I will get there, i will still have relapses but its early days (July 2010) but it will take me a while to trust a man again, let alone think of giving away my heart.
Until i logged onto your site Natalie i never knew about AC’s/EUM’s it is an absolute eye opener to me, i just thought my man was having a mid-life crisis. But i now know and will be watchful in the future for any signs of these two characteristics – and will run a mile if i discover them!
“As soon as they feel obligated (in their view controlled) that they are asked to be responsible, they will leave (because otherwise they would have to be genuinely responsible and not just put on a show).”
These words are so dead on. What is funny is my AC showed up saying “rely on me, trust me, you’re safe with me” then proved to be anything but! Yet as soon as I made it clear I did expect something (namely for him to get into the relationship for real) and began calling him on his disrespectful and hurtful behaviour, he was out the door with lightening speed. The show was over and Elvis had left the building…
One of the most valuable lessons I learned from this site is looking to see if the words and actions match. He can say almost anything, but if the way he is acting doesn’t line up, then it isn’t real. Most of these guys have learned what we want to hear and feel no guilt throwing out whatever sentence buys them what they want – the ego stroke, avoiding a fight or discussion they don’t want to have, keeping you compliant. I drove myself almost insane trying to figure out what was going on, when all I really needed to do was trust what was happening, not what he was saying. Even now, because we work together, I stay focused solely on his actions, not his words, and it is clear that the “friendship” he wanted so badly when we ended was nothing but a smokescreen to make himself feel less like the assclown he was being.
Forget what he says….what is he doing? When I learn to stay focused on that, and trust myself to see it clearly, I will not fall prey to this again.
Amen Sule…Amen.
I lived in the sweet sick world of illusion for so long, hanging on to words, replaying their sweetness over and over again in my mind. Words could soothe me, fool me, make me smile and totally forget that action was to never follow.
Great comment AngelFace!
So true, Sule and AngelFace!
I now laugh about my AC calling me ‘Love of my life’ to his friends, and saying to me a few times: ‘You are a woman of infinite value’. I lapped it up like a wilder beast who had lost its pack.
The old saying “actions speak louder than words” is just so true, and also the biggest lesson I have learnt both from this site and from my previous EUM. I now know to never ever believe a single word that comes out of a man’s mouth that doesn’t have the action to back it up no matter how much I want to believe it’s the truth.
Why men can’t realise that to just tell us the truth is so much better and less painful than telling us some rubbish they think we want to hear?
People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime, and what’s worse than wasting our precious time and sanity on an EUM or AC is doing so but not learning from it.
I really understand myself and my underlying fears better when I read your posts. Thanks once again for sharing your valuable insights. Your blog has been a big support in my journey to discover and develop a healthier me.
You’re very welcome Namaste.
I couldn’t agree more with NML and Sule here.
When you only take account of what they do and ignore what they say, you really start to get the picture.
As NML has said people comminicate both by words and by deeds/actions. If these two things do not match, you can guarantee that it is the deeds/actions that are revealing the truth of what they want and what they do not want from you and from the relationship.
If what they say is confusing you, ignore it and listen to what they do.
NML, I think, is also spot on. Whether they are redeemable or not is really not our problem. It is theirs. And people only change their behaviour when they themselves experience consequences for that behaviour. This is one of the basic principles of behavioural psychology.
I have seen this as a parent and as a school teacher. You can tell a child till you are blue in the face that you want them to stop doing something because it is unfair to you or to someone else. For example, a teacher can tell a child to stop interrupting her or others in class, but until that behaviour affects that child in a way they would rather avoid, they will just continue because it makes no difference to them – until it makes a difference to them!
But these men are not children and we are not responsible for teaching them appropriate behaviour.
I think with ACs, we are talking about an unpleasant and very selfish kind of personality. It is all but impossible to change your personality, I think. But anyone can change their behaviour or their outlook – if they want to. And as NML says, they will only do it for themselves, not for you or me or anyone else. It is very hard, but I don’t think we should be putting the kettle on waiting for these guys to ‘see the light’, or to see things our way or to wait for them to even care what those things might be!
Another great post! I can totally relate to this. I have such an ingrained fear of abandonment that I was consciously seeking out men who I know were unable to commit to me in the misguided belief that I couldn’t get hurt if I knew from the start that they were not long term relationship material. It initally gave me a sense of feeling as though I was in control, but once feelings started to grow (as they inevitably do), I found myself more confused than ever and trying to get out of yet another painful and unhealthy relationship. Now I can no longer escape from the pain arising from bad patterns and choices, I’m opting for a period of being relationship free and I hope that I’ll make better choices in future.
Posts like these make me realise that I’m not on my own and give me hope that as women, we can overcome these negative patterns and beliefs. Thanks again, Natalie.
Hi Michelle. Totally know what you mean about the feelings growing and it’s because ultimately, whatever negative beliefs we have, in there contradicting them is still a patent desire to be loved and validated so we still hope, and then get burned because we hope with the wrong people. Having a break and addressing your beliefs and how you feel about you will make a world of difference – use the time well!
I would very much identify with notsosadthing and Columbia.Repeated abandonments do indeed have a profound effect. Yet those of us, who have carried abandonment issues throughout our lives, have constantly pressed the repeat button on every new relationship, enacting and enabling the self fulfilling prophecy. Since I started my recovery almost two years ago, I keep a notebook containing all the details of my relationship history along with a log of my thoughts and feelings on an ongoing basis.Reading back over it always reveals new insights and I’ve done a lot of work with it lately as I uncover underlying belefs.Amazing how clear it all looks in hindsight, yet during all those years I just thought I was a bit on the wild side but mainly unlucky in love.
I have major abandonment issues.I was never abandoned by either of my parents but their relationship was so toxic that I was steeped in negativity from infanthood.And handicapped by low self esteem and an unconscious conviction that love,even if it existed for other people, would never happen to me.So I behaved exactly as NML describes above.All my boyfriends were crazily unsuitable.One was a criminal,another an alcoholic,another a suicidal manic depressive,many were married,more were either total losers or falling all over their baggage and loads were long distance.I actually laugh now as they make a sorry parade through the pages of my notebook. In fact nowadays I’d be ashamed to be seen with most of them.Whenever I inadvertently happened on a decent guy, I would [again unconsciously] be engulfed by panic and would spark up some major drama and send him scurrying for the hills.
And all because of this fear of not being good enough,of being found out if anyone got too close. Even now when I make a list of my good qualities and achievements, there is still this little sceptical voice sneering in disbelief.
But the desire and ability to change lies within each of us.And through the help and support of this wonderful, life saving site and constant, positive self reinforcement, I am changing.Of course it is difficult,of course there are slip ups,of course there are downers but that’s all part of the growing pains. I truly believe that it will all be worth it in the end.
Thank you so very much Natalie for everything you do.You really are an inspiration!
I do heart you Kay. I love that you are being, what must be at times painfully honest with yourself and yet you manage it with dignity and humour and I believe that you’re making the connection between your beliefs, actions, and experiences. Even though you may slip up (Lord knows I did), you recover much quicker and you’ve actually got to a point where you’re discovering that when you cater to the old pattern, it feels awful. You’re in a transition stage between old you and new you, and you’ve effectively been grieving the loss of a lot of things and sometimes, you’ve resisted that but you’re actually accepting and loving yourself. I remember writing down my parade of men – jaysus! I now know why my friends and family used to raise their eyebrows. I cringe sometimes when I think what I have done in the name of loving myself but then, I heeded the lesson. Relationships serve to teach us about ourselves – they keep throwing us the same lesson until we heed it. One jackass after another says – stop dating them and learn to love yourself.
Crazily unsuitable men while they can be exciting, fun, great lays etc, they come with too many downsides to make it even remotely worthwhile. Deep down as well, we know they’re unsuitable, so that only makes us feel worse underneath it all as we know that we deserve better.
Keep going Kay – you can totally do it (((hugs)))
Thanks a mil,Natalie.I would never have made it this far without your support and encouragement.It means a lot.It’s nice to hear as well that I come across with dignity, because dignity is one thing the old Kay didn’t have a shred of.
You’re spot on when you say that I’ve reached a point of transition.The old Kay was a wild,live wire,a great source of entertainment for all my friends, with all my tales and my dramas [only the genuine ones would caution me] and sometimes there is a certain nostalgia and a certain fondness for her.But my end of summer relapse with an ex assclown taught me that I have absolutely no desire to ever again be her and do the crazy things she did.It really did feel awful to be back in that toxic place, but when I calmed down, I actually interpreted that feeling as a very good sign that I am indeed recovering and that my efforts are bearing fruit.
Because my behaviour was addictive and insane, my recovery is very similar to that of a recovering alcoholic.The alcoholic hates himself if he falls off the wagon.The hangover is dreadful.The alcoholic needs to be ever alert to dangers and never assume that he is safe from a relapse.He also needs ongoing support and reinforcement.So it is with me and all the rest of us here in recovery from relationship insanity.
Speaking of relapses and slip ups,it would be great if you could do an article on that at some stage, if you haven’t already.I have slipped up twice in two years which I reckon is not bad going and when I got over whacking the daylights out of myself for my stupidity,those slips ups actually served as valuable lessons.
Again,a big thank you and keep up the good work.X
Yes, what is it about these EUM/AC’s that can be all over you one moment, give you everything, promise you the earth, treat you good and then the next moment treat you like something under their shoe.
I cannot still believe how my ex treated me when he decided to end our 3 year relationship. He was so cold towards me, said he was a changed man and did not want anything physical anymore, he was going to start a new phase of his life etc. He actually stood in front of me when i arrived at his home, and this man who usually took me in his arms when i met up with him, this time actually stood back as if i had the plague, looked me in the face and said he did not want a relationship anymore, all that and we had not argued and the day before he was all over me like a rash as usual. I was stunned, and i actually asked him if he was undergoing some sort of breakdown! He looked at me as if i was the one who had gone mad and said no, it was something he now wanted to do and i was not included in his plans. How hurtful to be cast aside as if the 3 years spent together meant absolutely zilch to him. I was bewildered, confused and burst into tears, all of which had no effect apart from him saying ‘dont do that, you will only make it worse’. Worse for him – i doubt it, worse for me – absolutely. So to say i felt, and still feel as if i was abandoned and rejected and shabbily treated is an understatement. I could not get my head around how someone could change so much overnight, no warning beforehand of what was to come the next day. What gets into these people’s heads that they can just discard you as if you do not exist? Do they ever think they made a mistake? Do they think of all the good things you did for them and good times you had together, or have they the ability to shut down their feelings and forget about you instantly. Did they have something in their upbringing even which makes them as they are as adults? Of course, the day he said this to me was the day i found out he had been cheating on me with the OW for 14 months, and who was sat outside in his car, and before i even knew she existed as he had passed her off to me as a relative when i asked who she was, until i introduced myself to her and she told me she had been ‘seeing’ him for over a year – so two shocks in one day for me – his attitude towards me and HER!
I have never experienced anything like this in my whole life before, i never knew people like that existed, so as well as dealiing with the pain and hurt of him cheating he has left me with, i am now also left with a reduction in my ability to trust again. However, this man will not bring me down to the extent that i will not put my life on hold and i feel it is HIM who has issues in his head and not myself. Next day i really felt as if i had dreamed the whole scenario it felt so surreal. I still do on occasion…..
Think there is something psychologically screwy about these guys. But they do have to go into cold, ‘you are the enemy’ mode to be able to discard you. My view is (and I am no expert!) that they go into this mode of treating their so-called loved ones because on some level you are like an object to them, by the time they leave you they have switched off because they have a new source of ego-stroking (either a person, new job or new city), but also because they’re subconsciously just too chicken sh*t to actually acknowledge that their actions (their survival mechanisms) hurt people. They just can’t let themselves (let alone anyone else) know that they’re not these perfect, good guys. They have this insane (literally) attachment to being perceived as wonderful. So, they demonize and devalue the other, until they can justify their actions as not just fair, but also necessary. You, in this instance, were the plague, and he could have caught that, so he was just acting in self-defence by leaving you. I assure you, I copped the same thing, and my AC laughed at me while I was crying, telling me that I was making it worse for myself and said that it reminded him of a time when I freaked out on a mountain climb and how silly I was being then.
Anyway, my father says that you can send yourself crazy trying to work out the actions of the crazy. So, I will stop here!
Big hugs, and go with that last strand of thinking… “I will not put my life on hold and i feel it is HIM who has issues in his head and not myself.”
Susie Jay, Your x is absolutely appalling. What goes around comes around and just remember his new relationship was based on a lie, cheating, cruelty and mistrust!
His new partner is either screwed up or just as bad as him.
Healthy people do not date men for 14 months while they are seeing someone else.
Don’t let his actions turn you into a mistrusting person but do take time out for yourself and heal. Part of that healing will be to feel like you don’t want to trust again, that’s normal.
Why do they go cold? Im really not sure it could be 100 reasons right? Mine also did the same, in fact I was not even really aloud to discuss our ending but was expected to be best friends and ACT normal. I guess all we can take from it is that they did act cold, cruel and any other number off uncaring things and we don’t want to be around people like this, people who thinks its o.k. to treat people badly.
I know for 100% that if I had to leave someone who had done nothing wrong to me and I new it was going to hurt them, id make sure I did it with care and make sure they new exactly why this was happening, to hopefully give some sort of closure for that person. This is because the core of me is someone who doesn’t like to hurt people, this means even if I have to ill do it the best way I can for that person. I think it’s called empathy which is something a lot of people lack these days. What these ex.’s don’t realise is that they have affectively erased all there “good” work and all their kindness by acting so coldly and cruelly. Basically they just don’t get it! And id never be around someone who doesn’t get basic human understanding, interactions and empathy.
I have been doing a lot of work on Abandonment issues to address my unresolved inner anger, frustration and conflict I’ve been carrying from 1 relationship to the other.
It finally came to a head when I recently attended an Inner Child intensive workshop. All this time I had put my “angry streak” down to my dad’s temper when I was a child (which is still a factor). But what I surprised myself with was the revelation that I am just as, if not, more angry with my mum.
All the conflicted messages, the “I love you, but do this to make me happy”; the hypocritical, contradicting stances she takes, have all subconsciously influenced my behaviour.
And I realised that my last relationship was a re-enactment of this dysfunctional mother-daughter relationship: where being taken care of by my ex felt so natural because it felt like “home” – but the controlling, martyr complex from him also reminded me of the “other side” of my mum. It was an uncomfortable familiarity that I never bothered to question.
No wonder we never really got anywhere: it didn’t stand a chance. And how could it when I had no conscious idea?
“None of us like to think we have been with someone who is *that* much of a jackass”…
I keep thinking, that because my AC just split without a word, that I just want to speak to him to make sense of it, to hear in his own words ‘why’. I can pretty much guess based on the dynamics what the reason might be, and in any case it makes no difference because I am clear I do not want to be with him any more. But still it haunts me. As my friend says, only he can say what was really going on and the rest is just my overactive mind at work. I just want to know what was real, what wasn’t – maybe to get my signals straight again.
It also surprises me that I am really really nervous about calling him (given that I have to do it sneakily because he has been ignoring my calls). What am I afraid of? That he will turn on me and break my already fragile state. Or that he will tell me more crap and hook me into feelings again. Or that doing it will pander to his ego and perpetuate the pain. Maybe it’s just the thing I need to hear in his voice, the harsh reality, so I can transition. Having not spoken to him at all keeps me locked in the old illusion on some level.
So I am confused about no contact… I could understand if he was pestering me but if he’s just gone then isn’t that just giving him power by letting him maintain the silent treatment?
I guess the other thing I am asking in terms of why I need this closure – what I am really seeking by wanting to hear his reasons and can I achieve this without subjecting myself to calling him? Why do I need this validation of hearing his storytelling voice one more time?
Suggestions welcome, I am really stuck on this one!
Thanks heaps, Dianna
Dianne – I am right there with you. Not sure what I need or want to hear. Is there really anything they can say that will make us feel better? Is there really a good “reason” why they behaved as they did? What are you hoping will come of it – closure, a new and different (read “better) relatioship? When I was dating my EX, I was certain he was a commitment phobe, largely because he showed up saying that was what he was (and his history confirmed it). Over the past month, I have been coming to the painful realization that he is, in fact, just an assclown. As a commitment phobe, he was damaged, fearful but there was hope. His strange behaviour made some sense and there was something to “work on” (although he had no interest in doing so). As an assclown, he’s just a jerk. There is no romantic way to spin it – he’s just an a$$hole. He’s not troubled or tragic – he just hasn’t grown up (still lives with his mother at age 40). The point being, when we first split, I needed, wanted, prayed for an apology, an explanation, an honest conversation that would allow the whole thing to be healed and have closure. But that presupposes that he tried to grow at the end of the relationship like I had. It assumes that he cares. One of the toughest parts of this whole thing is coming to accept that he truly doesn’t care. Not one bit. As far as he’s concerned, its over and he’s well rid of it. He has no interest in revisiting it, helping me get over it and I am sad to say I imagine your ex is the same way. I have to work with my AC closely, seeing him repeatedly every day and he still has no interest in cleaning up his mess. None what so ever.
Ask yourself honestly what you are hoping for. One of the few things I have honestly learned from all this is that to expect anything from someone who has made it clear that I am to have no expectations of him is just inviting more heartache, pain and rejection. At this point, we are creating our own pain and suffering. They have moved on. Whatever closure we are going to find, we have to create for ourselves. I wish you the best of luck with all my heart.
Don’t contact him. Your friend is wrong. He CAN’T give you an answer. As NML has posted before, they simply don’t have that much insight into their actions. If they did, they wouldn’t be behaving in the despicable way that they do. And, to be frank, if you do contact him after x weeks/months of silence to find out why he did what he did, he will think you are a nutter.
Not that it matters what he thinks. It doesn’t matter does it? He’s not a worthwhile person and his opinion isn’t worth anything.
If you are driving yourself nuts wanting to contact him, I suggest you read NML’s “Suck it and See Post”. And be prepared for him to be indifferent or hostile. Whatever you do, don’t sleep with him!
Dianna let me give you a piece of advice that you can of course choose to ignore because sometimes we need to feel the burn of the proverbial fire before we get the message; this man may well hold some answers but he is unlikely to give them to you. You’re expecting rationality from someone who when it comes to relationships behaves in a irrational, non caring manner.
You’re doing the equivalent of saying: Dear Assclown, I know that you are an assclown and have behaved in very assclown ways that demonstrate that you are lacking in empathy, deluded, self-absorbed, and that you don’t care, but I need you to tell me why you behaved like an assclown so that I can make sense out of what happened. I feel like unless you tell me why you did it, I won’t trust my own intuition and assessment of the situation. I know you are not a very nice person but I’m going to disregard that because I don’t trust myself and I also hope that by having this conversation with you that you will validate me and possibly even realise what you have lost and then we can live happily ever after.
Dianna, you may be waiting until kingdom come for whatever answers you are looking for from him. As far as he’s concerned, he’s shown you who he is, it’s up to you to heed the information and draw your own conclusion. If you rely on him, you are giving him far too much power.
You’re already in the harsh reality – you’re just choosing to ignore it and hope that something will happen to make this whole problem go away.
No Contact isn’t a game to see who can stay silent the longest or who can give in first. It’s not about provoking a reaction and I’m not sure what point you would be proving by getting in touch with him. You wouldn’t be saying ‘look you have no power’, you’d be saying ‘I’m desperate to hear from you on any terms so that I can feel less rejected’ and then his subsequent behaviour will make you feel even *more* rejected.
So true! This is a useful reminder for everyone. Thanks Nat! (And, if it helps, my mother who is in the healthcare profession – and therefore reliable – haha! – says that narcissists never admit they’re narcissists, they’re always just a little bit misunderstood or a victim of chance or someone else’s behaviour).
I hope this doesn’t come across as too sentimental, but I think, with this situation, you have to kind of hold onto the rope of the people who’ve gone before you in the process of letting go (from this site, and other wise, reflective people who you admire – real and dead). I sometimes visualize a T-bar lift, taking me up the mountain that I can’t quite get up alone (having been thrown or throwing myself into the abyss).
It’s not so that we’re a bunch of drones, not being responsible for our decisions (because then, if things don’t work out, we could always say that this site or someone’s advice lead us the wrong way). It’s simply that I think until you’re feeling calm and non-competitive about things, you’re reacting…and reacting is the surest way to tie yourself again to this crap, and probably have to apologise to him, and then get in this whole bloody shame spiral about it all again.
That’s why I can’t break NC. As I said earlier, just not sure there isn’t, still, an approval-seeking dimension, and I don’t want him to be able to provide input into my self-identity right now. I want to be able to trust my judgment again. This is the whole point of it, understanding my own version and backing it as truthful for me. Then, also, with time, I really do think you get a more objective take on it, and their position becomes clearer (and more simple) anyway. You’ll probably understand, in time, his position, more than he does.
Am going to try to see if I can do a few days off – even a week – commenting as I’ve been a monster today and I would like to let new thoughts arise. Will be reading though! xxx
I agree with Elle and the others here, and NML is spot on, Dianna.
You have to understand this: He has nothing to say to you or he would be saying it.
And you have to understand this re NML: Trust your own assessment of the situation. You are not wrong.
I get what you’re sayiing that for you not to speak to him is like giving him all the power… we tend to feel something like this: “why should he get away with treating me like something he just tripped over in the street then have the audacity to think he can just walk away and refuse to speak to me or even apologise… How dare he!!”… etc..
Been there. Wore the tea-shirt. Read the book. Over and over again.
Let me tell you how it pans out. This is the short version. Whatever you say to him, no matter how many times and in what form it will amount to this:
1.You contact him.
2.He ignores whatever it is you have said to him
3.You contact him again
4. He ignores whatever it is you said to him
ad nauseum…till you realise you are wasting your time.
I have read NML blogs that say similar to what she points out to you, Dianna, and this part particularly helps me:
“I feel like unless you tell me why you did it, I won’t trust my own intuition and assessment of the situation.”
If you ask this using abusing tosser for an explanation. He is not going to tell you it is all because he is a using abusing tosser!
When I became convinced my EUM had been lying to me, I wanted answers. But he had done the blow cold/disapearing act already and I was in similar position to the one you are in now.
He refused to meet me or to speak to me. I threatened to ‘take it further’ if he didn’t. When we met he was as hostile as any human being has ever been to me. It was very disconcerting, but I held my ground. He continued to try to convince me he had been telling me the truth. But he was lying and, furious that I had cornered him, he “refused to be threatened” into answering any more of my questions on the grounds that it was none of my business. ‘I know you are hurt and I’m sorry” is all he finally said, and at that he turned tail and literally ran out of the building as if there were flames at his heels. Our talk lasted all of about 3 minutes and it was horrible.
If you speak to your guy, what he will do is only confirm what you already think but what you do not want to be true. This will only have you feeling even worse than you do now. At some point you will have to deal with your feelings without his interference (cos that’s what it’ll be – interference – he will not help you).
Trust your own assessment of the situation. And act accordingly. This is the key. This is the way out and the way forward. You trusting you. Not trusting him. You tried that already!
So Understand this: You are not wrong. You are clever eough to see what is right before your eyes and call it what it is. NML is 100% correct: Trust your own assessment of the situation. You are not wrong. And act accordingly.
Sorry, didn’t mean t repeat myself in that last paragraph. Didn’t realise I had typed the same thing already.
God Bless you Natalie – Tell it like it is!! Your Dear Assclown letter is a classic -I wanted to cut and paste it directly into an email to him. Why can’t we trust ourselves and, conversely, why do we give so much power to men who don’t deserve it? Who are complete wastes of time? I know their behaviour makes us mental – so why do we then need to know what they think about what happened? At one point, my AC tried to make me believe I had imagined the entire relationship -completely!! And I almost believed him. Now I know the truth and I couldn’t care less what he thinks about it. Trust yourself, Dianne. You know what happened. You know that there is nothing he is going to say or do that will make you feel better and an almost 100% guarantee that he’s going to make you feel worse about yourself. Please, just walk away.
Dianna,don’t. Take yourself into the actual process of that call….you hear his voice, same voice that perpetuated the false reality that has caused you so much pain,you want him to be pleasantly surprised(and he may act like he is…he’s a prize actor…),you search his voice for meaning, some hope that he’s rethinking the situation between you(He isn’t and he hasn’t),you try to act strong…you may fail at that, get emotional,distressed,overcome. All he hears and experiences is this woman who he chooses now to have nothing to do with taking up his time…. He isn’t available to you anymore. He lives, eats breathes and shags on another plain .To put yourself through this is to invite pain and negativity in your life. Your friend who advises you that it may be closure, maybe has no more solutions to offer you. Listen, a guy who loves you and wants you is upfront and gets in touch in a consistent manner, face to face. He wouldn’t avoid you. He makes it clear he wants you. You shouldn’t have to pin him down. You know this Dianna… Act now on what you know. Everyone is with you on this site. I feel your hurt and have real problems personally on the lack of redeeming features of these men. I ‘m working that through myself and coming sadly to accept that. Believe, the pain will lessen. Put yourself first Lesley.xxx
Is it fear of abandonment that makes me want to hold on to my AC, even though I know he’s a serious jerk who won’t give me what I want? That’s the part of this I just can’t seem to get my head around. I know he’s never going to give me what I want, never going to be in the relationship for real and I am much better than I was – not obsessing, not praying for contact. But something still can’t let the last piece go and I can’t figure out what it is. I no longer expect validation – he would have to believe he did something wrong for that to happen. I don’t expect to be friends – any relationship with him would always have to be on his terms and I have, at best, been offered a second class spot on the harem. So what is it I still want from this guy? Why does he persist in my thoughts? I have now been in NC (modified because I work closely with him) longer than the actual “relationship” lasted and although I am certain I have made good progress,working and focusing on me, not an hour goes by that he isn’t in my thoughts. Is that fear of abandonment – maybe not in the literal sense, although I guess he abandonned the relationship, but in the sense that once he is really, totally gone, I am completely alone. I desperately want this to be over, to close the book on this painful, humiliating and demoralizing chapter of my life and yet seem to be unable to make that happen. What am I missing? What can I work on now?
“What am I missing? What can I work on now?”
They’re questions at the heart of the human condition! And they themselves answer why AC is still psychologically appealing for all of us.
You’re not completely alone. Reconnect with your friends and family. Accept all social invitations. Go to your local church. Join a salsa class. Join a sports team. The answer is so simple that we overlook it, or we think that it doesn’t do credit to our enormous angst, but here it is:
Eat well
Exercise
See people
At the very least it reduces the amount of time you spend driving yourself crazy with the futile WHY WHY WHY. One day you won’t care and that’s a promise. (Just don’t see him or date another loser)
EyesWideOpen, you don’t say whether you are in a joint business with this man, which might make it difficult but I also worked with my long term AC. Ultimately I had to work getting a new job…so that my contact ended. That led to new house, new city, new life… I had to change my life completely. I couldn’t have continued to see him every day, I would have been kidding myself about the reasons why. Lesx
@ eyeswideopen
You asked what you can work on now and what are you missing. I know what your saying about desperately wanting to close this humiliating, painful, chapter of your life ASAP!!!
you said “but in the sense that once he is really, totally gone, I am completely alone.” and why do you still want to hang onto your AC. I hear you when you say the above. It’s speaks of loss. You are feeling loss. You are going through the grieving process. . Even though now you realize that he is a serious jerk-at one point you didn’t think he was and you had feelings for him, and thought that he and you had a chance to be together and those feelings don’t just disappear overnight knowing what you know about him now. . You have to go through the grieving process. Check out Susan Anderson’s website which explains the phases of grief that surrounds the end of a relationship. It helped me understand better what I was expierencing emotionally. I learned that it takes time, self introspection and processing of all these emotions, thoughts and feelings I had. Anger, disapointment, denial, wanting back what I lost, hoping for his return, the feelings of rejection. loneliness, heartache, till we get to the point where we accept what it was, what it wasn’t and what it will never be and are able to reach the end and be at peace with it. It takes time to heal and become whole again.. We swirl in and out of these feelings during the process. It’s pretty complex and often touches on past emotions left over from prior relationships and touches on childhood issues as well.
As a woman who has been where you are -let me reassure you-you will get beyond this. You will come to learn so much about yourself in the process because this is really what it’s all about, and not about him. He is who he is-you can’t change him-and it’s not your fault that he is the way he is. I wish you the strength, courage and wisdom that you need on your journey. Keep coming back to this website there is alot to learn that will help you help yourself. Be gentle with yourself as you untie the knots.
In the past few months of trying to get over and move on from the AC in a healthy and introspective way, I have felt more secure to enforce my boundaries in everyday situations. This is good, right? Okay, so now I am starting to feel like so many people try to push my boundaries that it is depressing me. I am starting to wonder if I have surrounded myself with friends that habitually disrepect me, or am I going overboard and am using my boundaries as yet a way to be unavailable. Am I over expecting now? Has my fear of abandonment and finding people who won’t commit now just switched to fear of abandonment and being overcritical. I am faced with a situation now where a friend of mine clearly tried to guilt me into doing a huge favor for him that involved interacting with someone who is verbally abusive. I told my friend that I was uncomfortable with it and really didn’t want to because I was unwilling to put myself in that position. He said what he needed from me was more important than my pride. I felt slapped. I am feeling those old familiar feelings, oh I better just cave in and not upset him….but at the expense of myself. It is seriously making me wonder am I turning my boundaries into a fortress in just a new way of skirting around my fears? Instead of being a doormat have I turned my boundaries into a defense mechanism, instead of using them as a guide for healthy interactions?
He sounds like an inconsiderate a$$. Drop him. Ditch everyone from your life who isn’t adding value.
Jenny
It sounds like your boundaries are working well and yes, the change does also have a ripple effect on other relationships (friends, family). Read back on what you have said… a “friend” has asked you to put yourself in a situation where you are going to be verbally abused; you have said you are not comfortable with that and he has accused you of being “proud”?? Now substitute “verbal” with “physical” and read the sentence again! You are looking after your safety; that is not being over critical – that is being healthy! All your instincts are screaming at you that this situation is wrong; you are just not used to listening to these instincts. As you become more sure of yourself and your boundaries some friendships will fall by the wayside (some by your choice and some as people who weren’t true friends find you don’t behave to their needs anymore and move on to find someone who will). But what will emerge is a trust in yourself and your judgment and integrity and better relationships with people who value the true you.. not just the you who does for others at all costs.
Stay strong to yourself!
xx
I have been learning the same lessons lately and I really don’t think that you setting boundaries is a defence mechanism. I think when we finally set boundaries with people, after years of living up to their (usually very high) expectations, while not having high expectations of them, and saying yes all the time… well, people don’t like that very much. We are upsetting the imbalance of power (which favours them) to make it more balanced in favour of ourselves. That often makes people angry and they will either a) accept the new boundaries and adjust; b) leave, or c) try to push the boundaries even more.
You only have to concern yourself with people who are worth keeping in your life, which means the a) people. The b) people won’t add anything to your life anyway, so let them leave. The c) people will just have to deal with it and that means you’re going to have to dig in your heels even more. Then the c) people can decide whether they want to be a) people or b) people!
It will get easier, and as you keep digging in your heels and maintaining your boundaries, I think people will be more receptive once they get used to the new you. Keep going, and don’t feel guilty for setting boundaries and staying true to yourself. We “nice girls” tend to do a lot of guilt, or not wanting a confrontation, don’t we?
And I think you know what you really need to do in terms of the “friend” who wants you to be subjected to verbal abuse so that he doesn’t have to…… tell him that you’re not his mother and don’t have to fight his battles for him. You don’t need to subject yourself to that crap on someone else’s behalf. Just say no! LOL
It’s not surprising that if we are fearful of abandonment in our romantic relationships, that we find that we are that way in ALL our relationships (to some degree, at least). So, it’s also no big surprise that if we involve ourselves in unhealthy romantic relationships, that our other relationships might be unhealthy as well. The boundaries we begin to set just bring this to light.
I know I have always feared abandonment, and when I first began to set boundaries, it felt scary, and I wondered if I would end up all alone. I found that people did not easily accept my new boundaries, and there was a lot of conflict. But I stayed true to myself, and some of those people actually ended up having more respect for me, while others moved on to someone else who would be their “yes” person.
It was tough to let the others move on, but I realized that the abandonment was going to happen either way with those people. Either they would abandon me because they did not respect my boundaries and who I truly was. Or I would have to abandon myself to keep them in my life.
@Dianna
NML is right. You’ll be waiting til Kingdom Come. You remind me of my ex that I bluntly broke it off with. Didn’t give him any explanation and never called before I cut him off to say; oh by the way; after today you’ll never see or hear from me again. Cold? Maybe so but he wasn’t eve worth an explanation. When you’re dealing with an irrational ass clown; no explanation will suffice. 6 months; NC and he still hasn’t gotten one after several wimpsy attempts to contact me but I’ve never looked back since. All I can say is calling him to seek some type of validation is pure insane!! You don’t need a friend to tell you that.
I am so glad i found Natalie’s sites because she has been such an overwhelming influence on the way i see things and think things through about my situation – thanks Nat – you are a star!
One of the things i could not get over when my EUM/AC (or whatever he is)initially told me in cold terms right in front of me, with a masklike look on his face i had never, ever seen before, it really was like having a stranger speak to me, that he did not want a relationship with me anymore. I was absolutely stunned and in shock. It took me a few seconds to believe what i was hearing, especially when the day before he had been so lovey dovey with me, making plans to get a few days away wherever i wanted to go, i felt we were really loved up as we usually were, then WHAM he hit me with a statement which knocked me for six! I even asked if he were joking. What is wrong with these guys, what gets into their heads to treat a person in such an inhuman way? He was really enjoying my discomfiture and bewilderment. I kid you not, it was like dealing with an alien standing in front of me. This is the man who swore he loved me not only on one occasion but in the last few months, has bought me a new ring to go with the beautiful diamond trilogy and diamond eternity ring he had previously given me, even though we agreed we would never marry! We were both widowed, had our own homes and it would be too complicated with our respective families to live together. We were both happy with that arrangement so no problems there.
I am still shell shocked as to how he could treat me in such a dismissive, callous, sadistic and cruel way, especially when he stated that he had wanted to ‘get rid’ of me at Xmas! He never said that to me, he just went awol for 15 days, bounced right back again and declared he came back because no one else would put up with him!! I unfortunately gave him a second chance because i really did love him, and he, who had previously told me he did not know what love was, told me he realised that he did love me and wanted to be with me. Well that lasted for 6 more months before he ended our relationship in such a calculating, despicable, sadistic way.
Looking back over the 6 months i can see how he had started to turn the screw on me little by little, the lunchtime phone calls stopped, the overtime at work started which meant he was late to arrive to see me, or did not come at all, and eventually he then started to withdraw sex too. I suppose i should have seen the writing on the wall then but perhaps did not want to believe it.
Now, at last, 2 months have gone by with NC from either of us and i would never dream of contacting him to speak to him ever again. He does have personal items of mine in his possession but i will not make an effort to retrieve them. Maybe he is hanging on to them so he can come back one day – if he does, he will be shown the door, in fact i will not even open it!
He started out as a real gentleman, showered me with gifts, we had a lot of things in common and spent fantastic times together and now this…….i am completely speechless, just lost for words as to how he changed – talk about a chameleon, so trying to get through to these guys once they have made up their minds to kick you into touch i feel would be useless. Better to leave them alone, they should come with a health warning tattood on their foreheads!!
@Dianna
I would have to also encourage to keep up NC.
When I finally confirmed my exAC was indeed still married I was in such disbelief. I just couldn’t manage to accept that he had lied to me to this huge degree, it was so difficult to accept. I emailed him because I felt I had to tell him that I finally knew the truth. I had to ask him why he did it? I had to tell him that I felt completely used and manipulated. How could he of ever told me he loved me?
He never responded. He never acknowledged my pain or his wrongs. Nothing came of that attempt to find peace or answers. In some deluded way I wanted to hear that he was sorry for it, although it would of changed nothing. He doesn’t want to own up to his lying. He doesn’t want to acknowledge me, or hear me.
I am right about him, and my gut was telling me so for a while. He didn’t love me, and he did use me and he discarded me in the most callous of ways. I will never contact him again. And, even if he one day grows a soul and is sorry, I would proably bite his head off to hear from him again! He is a sorry *astard!
Please give yourself time to think about it….
Best to you!
Hi everyone
Thanks so much for all your kind words, I also found the Suck it And See article very powerful. I still really don’t know what to do here. I feel brave enough to ask him now and be prepared for almost anything to come back, in fact if he is negative or useless then that will actually help me to move on. He was never nasty to me, absent yes, but never spoke an unkind word. He can’t give me what I truly want and I know that. But my hormones have never experienced anything like what I felt with him. At this point they will simply not let go. There was a ridiculous level of passion that was left unfulfilled. I do not know what to do to unhinge my hormones and go back to before I knew him. I sense we merged too deeply and he was scared out of his wits and the rest of his life (kids & family) caught up, hence he bolted. It’s being in limbo that’s killing me, I’d rather hear it in his voice and feel I can get a real picture warts and all, than get no feedback at all and for my body to still carry all the same desire that we started with. Does anyone else feel like the sexual connection with their EU/AC was the strongest they’ve ever felt? Is it part of the profile or just an unfortunate coincidence? How do you get the hormones to switch off when the situation is not right and without contact? I have never had so much difficulty getting over someone in my life! Thanks again for all your feedback, I really value your insights. Dianna
Ah yes, the passion. I think a lot of the passion is because the sex is the only thing that works. So it is bound to be loaded with meaning. The guy is not delivering on his promises, he is not reliable, he doesn’t want to discuss the future, he lies, he’s deceitful. So of course the sex, the only time when he is present and with you, is fantastic. But how do you feel after the sex? How do you feel when you’re not having sex with him? How much do you have sex just to feel a connection?
I’ve been there and it took me a very long time to move past the sexual infatuation. Some years later, I can honestly say that the sex was not that great. Even that was all about him but I was so desperate for him to love me I was happy with it. But even if the sex WAS great for you, it wasn’t enough was it or you would still be having it?
Oh, and the ONE THING that finally enabled me to move on was NC. I didn’t know about this site then, I finally understood for myself that having him in my life in any capacity was only of advantage to him and of huge, enormous, longterm damage to me.
To Dianne and all who commented – I wanted to thank you all, although not for the reasons you might think. I was really struggling this weekend, 2.5 month NC, and for me that meant a real revelation was coming. I read all the advise to Dianne from NML and others and knew I was struggling with wanting to contact my AC, to get answers, to get an apology or something. I sat bolt upright in bed at 4 am this morning, in absolute peace. I finally got what NML had been saying about values. We simply had very different values. I had always thought relationships were based on attraction and shared interests. Wrong!! We wanted different things. We defined the fundamentals differently – what relationships were, what friendship is, what trust, respect and honesty are, the role fidelity plays and so on. At the end, I felt we were in a relationship (as I defined it) and he didn’t. He doesn’t feel he has anything to apologize for and I don’t need him to. Nor do I want his friendship, as his notions of what that means and mine are miles apart. I felt insane in the relationship because I had abandonned my core, my values. I wanted the relaitonship more than I wanted to be true to myself. Of course, all my morphing and pretending didn’t last long and in the end it all turned into an endless, pointless lecture on respecting me, caring for me etc.
Since I have come clear on this point I am literally standing taller, smiling, and I feel true peace. My mind has stopped racing, searching for answers. I work with my AC, closely, seeing him everyday and it was killing me that he wasn’t apologizing or trying to be the “friends” he always swore we would be. The actions don’t match the words and his words mean nothing. I need to trust myself, hold on to my core values and sense of self and find someone who shares my notions of what being in a healthy, respectful relationship looks like. My fears and negative beliefs kept me trapped in this one too long, fighting and trying when, from day one, we were completely and fundamentally incompatable.
For all those struggling with whether to break NC, either to get answers or to share lessons – ask yourself if he fundamentally shares your values and definitions of things like relationships, honesty, trust, commitment. If he does, you would probably be together or at least have gotten what you wanted and needed from him. If he doesn’t, it is unlikely that anything you have to say is going to shift his core one inch. He simply doesn’t think like you do and nothing you say or do is going to change that. All we can do at this point is protect ourselves from any more hurt or damage from their way of thinking.
Thank you all. You have given me peace for the first time in months.
Hi everyone
Well, I just called him and got my first explanation of why he dropped out and it was civilised. He basically said things could have worked out for us if I listened and gave him the space he asked for on the weekend things changed, as he had children to consider and was getting overloaded. Only thing was, I wasn’t clear he’d asked for me to specifically not contact him at the time. I had just miscarried and was struggling with going through it on my own and had told him to try and be there. But he decided since I couldn’t give him the space, that it wasn’t working, and dropped out as there was nothing to be gained from discussing it. He acknowledged that maybe he could have handled it better and it was sad. So that all helps clear my mind about exactly what took place. It doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t truly care about what I was going through (except if it affected him), and did not make sure I was OK especially after the pregnancy stress. He’s not shallow but is missing a compassionate bone and is certainly way too unavailable to match my values of someone who does things with me rather than control all the shots. I am just not someone who can have feelings for someone and then put them aside til we next meet, maybe this is a male ability but I just can’t do that. The sad thing is, he could probably adjust but that horse has bolted. At least I can grieve properly now, I’m glad I called him… I really am my own worse enemy with what goes through my head and I work much better with reality. The conversation was very straightforward and I have no reason to doubt that in a different situation if he was fully available and over his past hurts making him behave so independently, we could have had a good relationship but this time in our lives it was not meant to be. It’s also obvious that it’s not as important to him as it was to me or he would have wanted to sort it out, his behaviour is not someone who has energy for a real relationship as this breakup issue really was a misunderstanding and very mild considering the situation. He did not want to heal the rift. It’s sad really, love to hear your thoughts, Dianna
He sounds like a complete and utter selfish twit! I am very sad to hear about the miscarriage by the way.
I’m glad you have some closure but I’m wary that once you have processed this latest conversation, another question will pop into your mind, and that you will want to talk to him again.
Once you understand for yourself that he is doing you no good, you will no longer need to go back to him to answer your questions. You have the answers already, you just need to search yourself for them.
Thanks Grace
I learned a lot about where I missed the signals… it was way too much emotional stress for him but he never let on, so I never regulated how much I told him. I can learn from this for the future!
He’s actually not that selfish in life – he just has way too much going on with having a big business and 3 young children – hence unavailable to be in a relationship with me when we were together. I have honestly never met anyone who does as much as he does. I just kept missing out and was pushing for what I wanted, which led to the fracture. I know I deserve better so in a way it was me initiating the break up by not settling for less.
I probably don’t blame him for not being more emotionally oriented – he is surrounded by women at work and at home and people just expect him to take care of everything so he probably prefers to block out all the strong emotions just to function. Emotions aren’t a man’s forte anyway, I think sometimes we forget that they don’t think like us.
It just feels better to have reconnected as human beings without thinking the worst and holding negativity towards him. I just have to be careful because I am so open hearted that sometimes it means I put up with more than I should. Back to working out my values I think and what to do with these crazy hormonal levels! Thanks again, Dianna
@ Dianna,
Now that you have spoken to him, all that seems to have happened is that you now have a “new found understanding” that the break up (actually, his bolting) and the current situation could all have been avoided if it had not been for your behaviour!!!
Sounds very much to me like you are now wondering what might have been if only you had been less selfish, more considerate of his position, more thoughtful to his needs instead of your own (even though you were the one having the miscarriage).. if only you had been less demanding of his time and attention, if only you had appreciated the pressures he was under….
…if only you had understood that you are not important and he is very important, all of this silly “break-up” could have been avoided…
But you are important. Or you should be!
I suspect Grace is correct, unfortunately. I too think that when you get over the “high” of having spoken to him (or more correctly, of him having deigned to finally speak back to you), you will start to think more realistically about what he actually said instead of what you think you heard, and you will want to speak to him again. (It sounds very much to me like what he has told you is that he thinks his deplorable behaviour was actually your fault, and it sounds like you have believed him.)
You may want to consider this: you are not responsible for his behaviour – he is. And there are no excuses for the way he has behaved. His behaviour is selfish and self-interested in the extreme, and if I were you I’d be careful that those hormones don’t lead you back to his bed and square one with this assclown.
I feel for you. And I fear for you. I do wish you all the best.
F
Nothing you have said is casting him in a more favourable light. In fact, he is becoming even more despicable to me. Boo hoo, he can’t deal with his emotions and his three children (children that he had all along, they didn’t suddenly arrive) and all the women who surround him.
You have him on a pedestal – he has a “big business”, “no one does as much as he does”, “he is surrounded by women and has to take care of everything”. I’m just not buying it.
I understand that it will take time for you to realise what you have actually been dealing with, I’ve been there myself.
For the love of God, just don’t sleep with him again. Grow out all your body hair if you have to!
Dianne – I’m glad your experience wasn’t horrible, although like Grace and Fearless, I suspect you may begin to actually “hear” what was said after some thought and reflection. One of the hallmarks of ACs is their unique ability to rewrite history and portray themselves in the best possible light. Your post contains alot of excuses for him, despite the fact that you were the one undergoing a major crisis (very sorry to hear about the miscarriage – that is not the sort of thing you should need to ask help for – a good guy should come running). In the final conversation I had with my AC, about the only honest thing he said was that I would never get an honest answer out of him about anything. You keep saying he’s not selfish, but it certainly sounds like he is – I heard nothing that suggested he put your needs first or even recognized that you had them.
No one would deny you anything that would help you heal and recover from this man and if you feel talking to him accomplished something than I guess that’s good. The question remains whether you will continue to need answers and reassurance from him and it is unlikely he will be willing to keep giving it. You have likely gotten the most and best you are going to get from him. Now focus on you and what you need to keep moving forward without him. I wish you all the best – stay strong.
Dianna, you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. You’ve sucked, you’ve seen, I suggest you don’t let it conquer you. We all get to our acceptance at our own pace. You’re veering between three stages of the grieving of the relationship process – denial, anger, and bargaining. You’re also hijacked by your imagination. We all have hormones and at times, they can feel overwhelming. Sometimes, I’ve had such bad PMS, the boyf has had to mind his P’s and Q’s with me. As it is, PMS doesn’t affect me so much anymore – my diet is good, I take various vitamins etc. You are putting this all on your hormones like you’re a person with no free will, no responsibility, no choices – you’re not. You’re 100% responsible for yourself and you’re basically saying that you’re being led by your vagina and hormones – you’re letting these drive your choices and mixing them in with imagination. You may think I’m being harsh but I’m trying to be real with you, as I don’t really do BS and I’m trying to help you not throw yourself in the front line of pain because you can’t see past your hormones and feelings. Men can’t get away with saying that their penis and testosterone drove them to something – you wouldn’t buy that from him if he said it. You want more than is on offer from this man. That is OK, you’re only human and what you need to work to, is acceptance of the reality of things instead of making excuses based on someone else’s flimsy excuses. If you have to make excuses for someone based, it already places you on very shaky ground. I don’t care if he works with 10,000 women, is the richest man on earth, and has fifty children – that doesn’t excuse his treatment of you. He is blaming you for why the relationship didn’t work out. You are both responsible for why the relationship didn’t work. Here’s a fact for you – in a different situation, we can ALL be different, but it doesn’t mean we will. If you are really feeling hijacked by your hormones, as in, it really is your hormones, then the best thing is to tackle that issue so that you can see clearer.
You can have the best sex in the universe but if it is attached to someone who cannot and will not be present and accountable for the relationship and he doesn’t share the same values, it doesn’t mean jack. It just means it’s great sex, it just means that it’s a sexual connection – that’s it, short-term, not much else.
You have this man on an enormous pedestal – I suggest you take him off it, put him on the same level as you, and make him real. That is down to you, not him. Don’t let this man fill you up with bullshit excuses – draw your own conclusions.
Thanks Fearless and Grace
I know what you’re saying. i was just taking responsibility for my part. I was pretty emotionally intense for the weeks leading up to the ‘bolting’ so I can understand that can have a wearying effect as I was pregnant and he didn’t know me to be normally like that.
In the call I only asked him what his reasons were. I did not ask for an apology. He didn’t ask how I was feeling and I didn’t tell him. That’s why it was all about him. I did not want any validation, just to understand the situation. I stated in the conversation that I did not want to get back together with him, I just wanted clarity so I could move on.
His behaviour can be controlling, self-centred, unavailable, immature in emotional relationships and all those things which mean I have to move on.
But I don’t have to demonise the guy for trying, and finding it too much, and leaving. I just have to pick better next time. As NML’s article on Normalising Bad Behaviour says so well, he thinks he’s giving me the whole loaf, and if that’s all he has then I’m glad he gave me what he could. He was actually a bit vulnerable on the phone, it wasn’t his wish to be there yet he still accepted my need to know. Is it enough to be relationship material? No. But still a person on a journey who I can understand.
This will feel complete for me when I can accept without judgement what is so, learn my lessons, bring love to the situation and then release it. It’s nice to feel that the pain is easing, i just need to let it go now. Thanks for the comments about the passion Grace, I think I will need a sledgehammer to release that effect, I will start working with that!
Many thanks for your feedback, Dianna
This is my last post on the matter, as I don’t want to hijack the comments.
You sound absolutely desperate to be “nice” and “reasonable” which, I feel, is not doing you any favours at all. Nice and reasonable won’t get you a payrise, or the best price for the house you’re selling, or a relationship where you get an equal say. It also stops you from seeing a person for who they are including their faults. He has treated you like shit and yet you feel sorry for him and are full of understanding which he doesn’t even want!
Yes, he sounded vulnerable, he just wanted to get away from you!
He didn’t bolt because you were being emotional, he bolted because he doesn’t love you and you were making life difficult instead of being compliant. Simple as. All over the world men stick by their hormonal, pregnant wives/girflriends. The only thing you are responsible for is sticking with a guy who clearly was no good for you.
It’s good that he bolted, at least you’re not wasting any more time on trying to maintain a relationship with him and can start the healing process.
Dianna, I came onto specifically to see whether you had contacted him and your answer was pretty much as expected… You did what you felt you had to do and I hoped,I confess I hoped, that your language would be different…. It seems to me that you ARE normalising bad behaviour
‘ You can’t demonise the guy for trying and finding it too much…’ What? How did this AC try?
I feel that if this guy was to contact you tomorrow you would be there like a shot……
Listen, I have been there…honestly there is no nobility in suffering and there is no exception to the following rule;
You deserve the whole loaf. Dianna.x
Dianna
Please listen to yourself:
“if that’s all he has then I’m glad he gave me what he could.” (i.e. he treated you like crap and you are glad he gave you crap. Why? Because that was all he had to give? No it isn’t all he has to give!! It is all he cares to give.. but it was very generous of him to pass his wee bit spare crap on to you, wasn’t it? It makes us feel special, doesn’t it?)
“He was actually a bit vulnerable on the phone” (i.e. he didn’t want to be there; gave you the ‘woe is me’ story and you felt sorry for him – his ‘get out of jail free card’ – when you should have been giving him ‘what for’. Now he is swanning off as the good guy here, with your full endorsement, to get on with his life while you try to pick up the pieces of yours).
“it wasn’t his wish to be there yet he still accepted my need to know.” (And that was awful big of him, was it? No, it wasn’t, and besides, he did not “accept your need to know”; he didn’t give you reasons, he gave you excuses).
I am sorry if I sound harsh – it is not directed at you, Dianna, but at these men who just infuriate me because they always seem to walk away with a medal for good behaviour! Rather then the kick in the shins that they deserve! I think I will refrain from further comment before I blow a fuse!
Yes its strange isnt it that these type of men can give you such wonderful, exciting sex. I had it in droves every which way but loose and its so hard when its gone, but who wants great sex with such an appalling shyster when everything else about him is dreadful and he treats you like rubbish?
I truly hope you find some solace after all this man has put you through, he does not deserve to be thought about and eventually you will come to realise that.
I still think of this guy who was so cruel and sadistic to me, but i started off allowing my self a few hours in the day to do so. Then i cut it down to one hour in the morning, one hour in the afternoon and now even though i am typing about him, and obviously thinking of him, he is becoming less of an intrusion in my mind. I value myself as a good, genuinely nice person, one who will help others in anyway i can, and found volunteering for a charity (i am retired) is fun and in that sort of environment you cannot walk about with a long face and a miserable outlook as people continually chide you out of it.
I am starting to feel happy that i do not have to be an appendage to a guy who does not know what love really is, and i am hopeful of the future that someone will come along and love me once more, give me great sex, and if not, i am still me and more to the point, i am still alive. I once beat the big ‘C’ and after that everything else pales into insignificance and every day is a bonus. Good luck Dianna you deserve to be happy. x
Yea, my ex EUM he said he didn’t know what love it is.
After almost 3 months of NC I called him because I really was feeling lonely and can’t keep him of my mind. We talk about 15 min. about nothing important, just job and everyday life, he did asked me how I was doing, but I only told him how I was doing at work and talk about my house buying project.
Anyway, I don’t and won’t beat me all up and put myself down just because I contacted him. I consider this part of the process. I think for most I have conducted myself honorably, and I did set boundaries, of course, those boundaries where the reason of the separation and started the NC.
Every man and situation is different and eventhough all these man can be generalized as EUM/AC , I don’t think there is only one recipe for success on moving on.
If there was one magic solution there wouldn’t be this blog.
All we are humans and made mistakes, and we want to grow and better ourselves. That tells a lot of us and is a good begining.
I am ashamed to say that I didn’t even get that much sex and none for the last 1 1/2 yrs (2 1/2 total). He’s a chronic pain patient and I kept asking if it was me and he said no it was the pain meds. He also use to say woman only wanted him for his paycheck and his great sex. Xmas 2008 (last time we had sex) he even said “what would happen if we never had sex again? That it would be only a matter of time before I cheated on him.” I ressured him that wouldn’t happen that I loved him and would never cheat on him.
So here I thought I was the “great” girl cause I was there for neither – I really did love him – oh I am so ashamed that I let him manipulate me like this – I think it’s so disgusting when I write it down here in blk & wht. I am sure that he slept with someone else during that time, but I will never know the truth.
None of my needs were met – not spiritually, emotionally, financially or physically. Never again!!
@Dianna
It doesn’t matter if he had 3 children to zero. An ass clown is just what he is an ass clown!! By calling him you have already given him validation that you are available for him to screw you over as many more times as you’ll allow him to. My ass clown ex; had 2 kids and was as classic as they came; a simple Dead beat and I told him what he was when I left. A man that isn’t taking care and loving what he already has( be it first divorce; etc) is not going to treat the women that suddenly walks into his life any different. Whatever he did to obtain you he won’t continue to do to keep you because you can’t change a typical ass clown; EUM or AC. He was already JACKED UP before you met him. Don’t take this personal but honestly a woman can buy a few sex toys to arrouse herself and still keep her dignity and her self esteem. Great sex without anything last or promising is just great sex.
Hi Dianne,
Just caught this thread and felt compelled to just say this. I felt furious on your behalf! Darling, you were pregnant, you had a miscarraige. I am so sorry this happened to you. You must have been through hell. Of course you wanted the man who had got you pregnant by your side when you were going through this traumatic time, any woman would, that is totally natural, it is not unusual behaviour, it is NORMAL. The fact is any DECENT.man who was healthy and functional would have been there for you, no questions asked, would have totally understood and would certainly not have blamed you in any way for wanting him at that time. This man is an absolute s…t. Not only has he treated you despicably he has blamed YOU, when you were going through a vulnerable, highly emotional, distressing time, for his cowardly, disgusting behaviour.. All I can say is that I have found found NC is the way forward, that time and distance are a great healer and cutting contact completely puts everything into proper perspective and gives real clarity.
About the sex, the comments made on this thread about it being the only thing that works so it is always passionate, amazing etc is spot on. With my exEUM (the first and last one) i knew it was over when, after I did” suck it and see” and took him back, we had our usual multi orgasmic, mind blowing sex (we would sometimes stay in bed for days at a time) and I lay in his arms and had the epiphany moment of suddenly realising that it just felt empty, that this was all he could give me – and it sure as hell was NOT ENOUGH for all the crap I had put up with from him OUT of bed!!. He too was also a great blamer – as in , everything was always ALL my fault, he never took responsbility for anything, he was this, he was that, he was vulnerable, he was upset, he was stressed, boo hoo…..it was all about his feelings and mine were never factored in. I have been NC for nine months so I see everything very clearly, and yes, I can even find a sense of humour about it all now because it seems so fantastic and surreal that I bought into this rubbish! Crikey, what was I thinking! .
Just to add that this man does not deserve someone like you who is obviously a very kind, compassionate, loving person. Take good care of yourself Dianne on your journey to clarity and healing.. All the very best. x
Hi everyone
Thanks for your love and support. I am a kind and caring person and it’s not in my nature or desire to get nasty here towards him. Why should I go against my personality and nature because of his actions?
I understand his actions, but that doesn’t mean he is the right person for me. I guess I am finding this confusing. Everyone here seems to be saying that underneath the person he is there is a monster. I just don’t feel it. He made mistakes, so did I. I’d like to leave it alone, to see it for what it was, good and bad.
I do want a whole loaf, a whole relationship, to be with someone who loves and honours me and cares about how I am doing. He can’t do it but I don’t hate him and never will.
If anything I am the weird one here flogging a dead horse. He’s actually done the no contact thing and said its not working. I’ve just got to stop looking for love where it’s not available and stop making it about him. RIP. Thanks heaps, Dianna
Hi everyone. Let’s draw a line under this conversation to keep comments on topic and less about only dealing with one person’s issues that at the end of the day Dianna may or may not want to see in that way. Dianna has to do what she’s got to do and we all, me included have to be careful of crossing boundaries and trying to push our positions. All very supportive but a bit intense and forum like. Let’s move on now.
Dianne- I bet you are feeling a tad ganged up on right now or that we aren’t supporting you the way you might want and that would be fair. I think all of us are concerned that, like every single one of us has at some point in our relationships, you aren’t seeing him clearly right now, are justifying what you need to keep him in your life and keeping that last flickering amber of hope alive. You are absolutely right – we don’t need to hate or demonize them, but that comes in the end, after the anger and seeing them clearly and accepting and forgiving. You may want to think you are there already but if you were, you wouldn’t need to talk to him or need any answers from him to find peace. I know that I have been exactly where you are – wanting to be the bigger better person, feeling like hating him only hurts me, wanting to forgive so I can move on, needing to believe he can’t have been all that bad. But all that did was slow down the grieving and healing process. I was trying to make myself feel how I wanted, rather than accepting how I did feel, which was mad as hell, hurt, betrayed and rejected. While it was temporarily calmer to pretend to be over it, reconciled and forgiving, it wasn’t honestly where I was. You don’t need to explain or justify anything to us – I think we all understand and only want the absolute best for you. We are only expressing our genuine concern for YOUR well-being. You still seem to hung up on his emotional state and understanding what he’s going through. Please focus on you, get mad if you need to and don’t worry about being nice or pleasant – I have yet to hear anything that sounds like he has earned that. All the support in the world.
Thanks Sule, Nat and everybody
My heart does hurt but it’s all mixed up because I lost a baby and my hormones are everywhere at the moment. Yes he behaved like an AC but he’s not all bad. I don’t think getting over him would be such as issue if I wasn’t feeling so hormonal and affected by my loss. I am someone who accepts full responsibility for my emotions, feelings and so on so recognise these are my feelings, my pain, my issues, my needs wants and expectations and not necessarily his. There are 3 issues here for me, getting over the pregnancy hormones, releasing the unsuitable him (still tied to the first issue) and then learning with the help of this wonderful community to pick better next time. That’s my journey and it doesn’t help to make him the enemy right now, I have to heal with love to get through this the best way for me. It’s sad that what I thought would be such a wonderful time in my life has turned out this way, but it will be better next time and I am very grateful for the amount of love I have in my life. Thanks everyone for your love and support. Dianna
I have definately come to a few conclusions about myself with regards to this matter.
I know all about abandoment and rejection I learnt it all in childhood so obviously all my relationships have been exactly as stated above I always chose guys who weren’t compatiable with me and who didn’t even like me if I am honest because that is what I know and it is easy to be in a relationship like that I find it terrifying to think of a relationship where the guy might actually like me and want more from me. I feel I must really enjoy rejection considering how often I put myself in a position to ultimately be rejected and that I haven’t risked anything of myself at all in these familiar relationships. It is a tough battle and sometimes I have to fight the urge to contact the ex just to taste that rejection again. It is a tough tough message to change to oneself that you deserve much much more and things can be different if you start liking yourself etc. etc.
I like the phrase suck it and see but i know from past experience it does suck and its mot worth seeing.
I know I fit into this topic. I was adopted from birth and always felt growing up that my bio mom “gave me away”. My adoptive mother was an alcoholic, self medicating bi polar. She was also a major control freak. So I learned early on that you had to be “perfect” to be worthy of her love or she would threaten to give me back to foster care. I can’t tell you how many times she would say “I wish I never got you”. And the sad thing is, I was “the perfect child”, according to her, except when she would fly off the handle. So I can say that through my relationships I have always given my all so that I was “good enough” to not be tossed a aside. However, that is something I realized years ago and have been working on since. I think I have come a long way, but still have more work to do.
Thats the thing about being abandoned as a child by one or other parent. When you in a relationship you are always looking for that loop hole waiting for the bomb to drop. You eventually see things that aren’t there, so before you getting hurt you decide to leave that person. Not everone out there is like that, you just have to learn to soul search and be open with your partner so that they may know where you are coming from.