Does Emotionally Unavailable Equal He’s Just Not That Into You?
Over at answerology, a reader asks “Do you think that emotionally unavailable really just equals he/she is just not that into you?” Truth be told, the answer isn’t a clear-cut ‘no’, but when you are faced with a Mr Unavailable’s behaviour, they act the way they do regardless of who you are. It’s not about you, it’s about him. The trouble with wanting an emotionally unavailable man is that it can cater to something within you which allows you to be drawn to someone who is emotionally ambivalent, which in turn makes you think that you need to work harder to win him over. He’s just not that into his emotions. He’s just not that into relationships. You could lay the world and yourself at his frigging feet and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference. He’s self absorbed, narcissistic and focused on the short term fringe benefits of being with you. He gets the sexual, the social, and the emotional benefits, with little or no concern for the impact on you in the short, medium, and long term.
If you persist in trying to be with an emotionally unavailable man, in spite of his behaviour, on some level it sends a message that you’re not happy either. Because the bulk of women that are attracted to and become involved with emotionally unavailable men are actually emotionally unavailable themselves and commitment-phobe’s (whether they know it or not), by sticking around, he realises that something can’t be right with you either. Deep inside he knows that you shouldn’t want him as he has nothing to offer but crumbs. But this is actually a very minor part of it…
Ultimately, emotionally unavailable doesn’t equal he (or she) is just not that into you. People can either tell you that they’re emotionally unavailable, not ready for a relationship, or not interested or they can show you, because actions speak louder than words. It all comes down to whether you want to hear the words/heed the signs. Human nature can have us putting ourselves at the centre of the reason when in actual fact, true emotional unavailability occurs independently of whoever they engage with. It was there before you became involved with them, it’ll be there when you become involved with them, and until they resolve their issue, it’ll still be there long after you’ve had the sense to make a run for it.
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starr May 5th, 2007, 9:02 am
This is very true. I agree with it so much. I am with an emotionally unavailable guy and I thought I wanted to have a serious relationship…but deep down, I don’t. this article has made me realize this. how do i become emotionally available? i really would like to…im tired of being single..but again, i guess im a commit-a-phobe.
kay May 10th, 2007, 11:02 pm
I read this article and cried. I not only recognise my current situation but many others before it. One in particular nearly destroyed me. Yet every so often he reappears and pulls the same old strings. Knowing and learning from a situation is not the same thing. More importantly- why am I choosing such people? If I could work that out I would be free of the EUM forever!!
Theresa May 16th, 2007, 1:35 am
I do agree yet I have my own view or twist on this. I think it takes knowing how to be in a relationship to really answer that question. My father abandoned me as a baby, reappearing here and there and me always trying to be good enough, smart enough, and pretty enough to finally win his love. But he was to into himself and his life to care about me or my needs or feelings. So what I find is that I keep recreating the abandoning father in my life. I say honestly to you yes I want a relationship, yet I can honestly say I’m not sure what a healthy one looks like. Again I find myself in a relationship with some emotionally unavailable me trying so hard to win his approval and love for him to abandon me. Same story different guy; the cycle of my first relationship (with father) never stopping.
William May 27th, 2007, 6:49 pm
I have or appear to have the same problem but I don’t know where my problems stop and my girlfriend’s start. I think unless she didn’t have problems she wouldn’t still be around. I really don’t know how or what to do because she demands my undivided attention is jealous of the kids and my ex wife. I tried to give her more attention but I seem to piss everyone off in the process. She thinks if I really loved her I wouldn’t have any problem making decisions about how I treat her. Now I’m wondering maybe she’s right if I really loved her would she get all of my attention. It leaves me totally confused I don’t do things that most people would call mean (run around on her, not do what I’m supposed to with her, hit her, verbally abusive, etc) can I just be reserved? Do I have to be labeled emotionally unavailable like I have an incurable disease?
la May 28th, 2007, 9:37 pm
Hello
I was reading your posts and I will say that the first step toward change is becoming aware of your own unavailability. The second question to ask yourself is what are you afraid of when it comes to male/female romantic relationships? Why are you afraid to share intimacy? Are you truly intimate with anyone in your life? Are you still trying to repair your relationship with mommy or daddy? Before you can have a successful relationship you need to take an inward journey. Much like training for a new job you are training yourself to stop limiting behaviors and protective devices and truly believe that you are worthy of a great love (Yes You!). A good book to start with is Fear of Intimacy by Firestone. Read, think, read, think. Stay away from dating for a while until you develop the courage and boundaries to pick a healthy partner. And, if you are involved with an EUM, GET OUT! It will never change, you will suffer more damage and despair, besides wasting your precious youth on someone who DOESN’T CARE AND NEVER WILL!!! Good luck to all of you.
stella June 27th, 2007, 6:52 pm
Really good advice and true. The hardest part is that though they are emotionally unavailable, sometimes they do “push and pull” a little. So many times I’ve been like “That’s it!” I don’t contact him for a few days and he calls me and I think it’s gonna be different. It’s the first time I’ve actually been in this kind of relationship and it’s throwing me for a loop!
Whitney July 2nd, 2007, 6:18 am
I am dating a EUM. We have been off and on for the last month and a half. It is really taking a toll on me. He can’t make up his mind about me. He constantly tells me how great I am and how he knows that I am the best girl he has ever been with. However, he is terrified of commitment. He will pull me in by cooking for me, telling me sweet things, and spending quality time with me. Then the next day he is aloof, unavailable, moody, and says he needs his space. Everytime I pull away he freaks out. He has double standards! He is like playing me like a yo-yo. I know he cares and that the thought of losing me scares him, but lately whenever we have great days and get close and intimate he seems to freak out and the next day pulls away again. I care for him deeply and he is my best friend. But, I am better and stronger then this. I can’t seem to gain the strength to tell him adios!! I know he needs to learn he can’t treat me like this and I am not someone he can play with. But everytime I feel close I fall back into needing his attention. I have never been like this in past relationships. I am addicted to him. When its good its great, but he is so selfish and arrogant. I think cause he is insecure. He just started therapy. It may help. He used to be called a player in high school. But then he got cancer and changed somewhat and I don’t think he cares about having tons of women. He just can’t be too close to one. I feel lost and confused!!!
TeresaL July 8th, 2007, 5:02 am
Great advice! I am 24 and always seem to be attracted to men who are emotionally unavailable. Sometimes this is a good thing, since some of the men in the past have turned out to be a disaster in other ways. However, there are the ones that have great qualities and make me want to pursue dating or a relationship. More recently, I met a guy in SF (my home town), he lives in another state (let’s just say far away) and he was interested in keeping contact. Initially I thought it was weird! Right? Why would a man who lives tons of miles away want to keep in contact with a girl who lives far away?
Well… he emailed, I emailed back, we have kept in contact and since I have had the chance to get to know him, I have discovered that I like him enough to perhaps purse a relationship. We have been sexual and that has also made things hard. Do you think that since I live far it has given him the opportunity to be semi involved, without any real strings attached? I just got back from seeing him and have the desire to make the first move and call or email…but I decied not too. Any advice? Should I just run? Is it hopeless?
Liza July 12th, 2007, 1:00 pm
Teresa (7/8/07 comment above), I think you should give this guy a chance - make the contact! The geographical distance between you may have nothing to do with his being emotionally unavailable or not - you never know! Let him know you’re interested, and see what happens. At the very least, it could be a nice, long-distance, once-in-awhile thing.
My problem is MUCH closer to home. My emotionally unavailable guy (for two years now) just does not need a lot of woman in his life. I know that when he does want a woman, it’s me, but it’s not enough. His priorities are his business, a serious hobby, and his 3 kids. I’m a part of his life, but I’m not IN his life. We rarely go out, he’s not at ALL affectionate, NEVER compliments me, and avoids me on all holidays. But I am SO drawn to this man! We have the most AWESOME sex & easy, relaxing evenings, lots of laughs, etc. I’ve kept myself out there and met/dated other guys, but nobody does it for me the way he does. I rationalize that he “shows me in his own way” that he cares - but they are nothing compared to what a REAL man could do and give. This article was a wake-up call that I must on some level like the challenge - he must “keep me on my toes” or something (I have lost 20 lbs and kept it off since I met him so that’s a good thing, right?!). I would LOVE a committment; I think the reason I must keep him is the challenge (and the sex!)
Michelle July 25th, 2007, 7:24 pm
Ok, So again this is the first realtionship I’ve ever been in with an EUM!! Wow, has thrown me for a loop. It’s been 7 months and the last 5 have been hell!! Up, down and as time goes on it just gets worse. I’m bailing this time. I too, am so drawn to him and the sex is unbelievable but the emotional roller coaster is to much for me anymore. My girlfriend has been telling me about the EUM’s of the world and is so shocked that I’m oblivious at 34 years old. Well after reading this article and others, I am blown away about how accurate this is to my relationship.
Charisse July 26th, 2007, 8:27 pm
I met my EUM 7 months ago. After dating for 2 months, he asked me to move in with him, marry him (he actually had a ring) and take the key to his house. I declined them all because I thought though we were having a great time together I was not ready to make the move to move in with anyone. We had a great first five months. In May, I noticed that he had begun to become distant and I was feeling uncomfortable. I felt that we had a good enough rapport that I could talk to him about it. I told him I noticed his distance and that I needed him to be more affectionate. He told me it wasn’t happening that I was trying to change him and that if 90% of the relationship is good why complain about the other 10%. This was the beginning of our push and pull relationship. I didn’t hear from him from May 19th until June 2nd. After June 2, We spent a couple of days together.. we had a great time. Didn’t talk about his disappearing act at all. The following weekend he was supposed to go to a formal affair with me. The day of the affair I was busy running around as I was the coordinator and I had to call him to find out what was going on. He told he he wasn’t coming did not offer a good reason. I accepted that! He said he woudl come down to the hotel later. He did make an attempt but got lost and turned around and went home and commented to me that he was too emotionally damaged to have a relationship with me.. that I was too good of a woman for him to keep putting me through his “tirades”. More recently, last weekend we went away together had a wonderful weekend and now I haven’t heard from him at all. He won’t call me… I have left messages and I am extremely hurt and confused. His actions are saying he doesn’t care; though he praises me to high heaven when we are together. I am so angry I want to physically hurt him to make him feel what I am feeling but when I come back to my senses I realize this will not make anything better. Reading the different posts regarding the EUM have helped me but I am a long way from healing.
iwashandytorandyd July 28th, 2007, 6:10 pm
After being out of my marriage of 14 years, I met what I thought to be a great person, and he was! Just emotionally unavailable. After being fresh out of a three-year booty-call relationship himself, he had no business starting to date me. He was still very bruised. In fact I didn’t find out about this former relationship of his until four months into our so-called relationship. I was deeply affected by this and started a long slow journey of mis-trust towards him. He was “emotionally unavailable” to me in almost every way described in your article. And had he been available to me emotionally, and consistent in his phone calls, behaviour, his ability to be completely open and honest and forthright with me, I think I could have been quite a different person myself…but eventually after so many “red flags”, I simply started to pull back myself emotionally not feeling I was in a “safe spot” with him. Ultimately the demise of our “relationship” and my now trying to make perfect sense of it all. His explanation to me at the end being that he couldn’t quite put his finger on why he couldn’t go there…why he wasn’t into the relationship like he felt he should be. My heart is very sad and I have an awful lot of processing to do with myself for having been drawn to this person in the first place and for sticking it out for six long months of sheer hell when I should have dumped him after the fourth month. My gut, my physical feeling of unwellness told me that something was wrong but I chose to ignore these important signals (to myself), my insides churned 24/7 in the time I was seeing him. I can only expect that this experience with this guy whom I met on Lavalife by the way, will make me a stronger person, able to acknowledge the red flags in any future relationships, especially with those who are possibly emotionally unavailable. There is just no end to it and no future unless these people deal with their issues of why they are the way they are!
Jen August 3rd, 2007, 2:43 pm
ARGHHHHHHH after being attracted to EUM in the past I said never again! However…after through choice being single for about 4 years sorting through **** from exes and the like… I have spent the best part of this year “virtually” speaking to a man who I thought was a decent bloke.2 months ago We met up and got on etc However after that everytime we arranged to meet he’d vanish no email.txt or anything letting me down! I thought he was doing the I don’t like you thing that men do and being silent..So I backed off! However He then came back said how much he liked me blah blah blah as I’d met his family as he still lives with his parents and 5 brothers I believed him! We went out again where we kissed…I thought finally and thought he was just shy etc he’s really got into my head now I Haven’t seen him for a month! I was stood up tuesday night after he assured me he was going to be in! I had the humiliation of knocking his door and the he’s not in speech from his mum as if I am some sort of stalker!! I Have not heard anything since! He is 22 and I am 26!! Why say you really like someone etc then don’t meet up? Why can’t men have the bottle to say actually I don’t like you in instead of getting your hopes up and hurting you on purpose? Is it me or has the whole dating thing got harder! Men..try be honest if you don’t like someone in that way TELL THEM! and save the bull-crap!!! Why did I not notice this happening? Why is it the more the man ignores you the more you want them? Are men worth all this hurt and upset?
Amanda August 3rd, 2007, 4:06 pm
I have just wasted six years with a EUM, and I have only myself to blame for more than one reason. When we began dating, he was still married, although constantly reassured me his relationship with his wife was over and been emotionally over for years before. It took him over two years to get the official divorce (still I hung in there like fool!) while he swept me off my feet with big promises, presents, tons and tons of love and affection, great sex and my every wish fulfilled. The Perfect Man. After his divorce, we saved money and bought a house together and started renovating it ourselves. He asked me to marry him with a huge ring in a gorgeous restaurant and with a written invitation saying, he loved me more with each passing day and that he knew our journey in love would last forever. But when I started planning the wedding, he just didn’t seem into it. I figured it was just a guy thing. Three months after he asked me to marry him, it was Valentine’s Day and he didn’t get me anything. He said he forgot it at the office. We had planned a dinner at teh restaurant where we got engaged and he sat there like statue the whole time. Four days later, he broke the engagement and said he felt in his gut for over a year that things weren’t working for him and would never work. The following day he apologized and said he wanted to work on things. Then he broke up with me, then we “worked it out” then we broke up, etc… for six months. Eventually he told me that he’s just been in a different place than me, knowing it was really over for so long and if I was just honest with myself I would say I knew it was coming all this time too. I felt like tearing my hair out. NO YOU *&#%^&$*&^ I had REGISTERED FOR CHINA and shopped fo rdresses!!! How was I supposed to know he wasn’t happy when he was acting happy and proposing marriage!!! He said such terrible things to me and hours later with act like a puppy dog and will accept him back. The worst thing is that I can’t escape him day-to-day because we bought this house and it’s ripped apart and has to be fixed before it’s sold. Neither of us can afford to live somewhere else and pay the mortgage. The loan is in my name only, but at least we have a contractual agreement to both pay. It’s like living in hell.
Ann August 5th, 2007, 12:27 am
One thing that I have not seen mentioned in any of the postings is the feeling of guilt about leaving that can keep us attached to an EUM. In my case, leaving challenges my own commitment to try harder, to stick it out, to stay to the bitter end (what ever that may be). My own EUM has been just as shitty as tales above and I have still held on. I have been in many disasterous relationships and my family and friends have seen me going from one to another. I suppose this time, I felt that I had found ‘the one’ and I was determined to put my ‘all’ into it. However, I have found the strength to leave because, like so many others on this site, what comes back from him is crumbs. He has quite happily said on many occassions that he is unable to provide the kind of relationship he knows I want. But then he continues to dangle carrot in front of me and I take the bait. He has no quams about contining to wasting my time. Roll on Friday 10th Aug, my escape day when I move out. I wish all of you the strength to break free to find a rewarding life, with or without a partner.
J August 16th, 2007, 9:02 pm
Oh my goodness. I hit the wall last night. Broke up with my EUM. I do love him. He is a great bloke. Loyal, fun, loving and affectionate, but with HUGE walls. We were together for 15 months. Part of eachother families and friends. His family totally welcomed me.
He was “almost” divorced when we met. (I broke my own rule, never to date a man who is not divorced yet.) Assured me he was fine and ready to get on and live his life, find the “right” partner and have a family.
Like Ann, when I started to notice things not adding up emotionally, (things like, he never had any really close friends). He didn’t seem to “value” friendships. He wasn’t really considerate to time, like if he was going to be late for drinks with workers, or if he made plans with me.
I felt I had found the “one” and didn’t want to walk away because things weren’t perfect. But here is the reality.
- I was not my strong, confident, selfassured “self” in this releationship.( I normally am)
- I never felt emotionally safe. I had no clue what he was thinking about me, or us, about the future, if we had one..
- He admited straight on when we’d talk about it.. from about 3 or 4 months on.. that “This is all he can give right now emotionally”. He always seems so overwhelmed. There’s always something that’s causing him to feel overwhelmed.. He’d step it up.. then retreat..
He never wanted me to “bother” or to go to any trouble for him. I wonder if it is because, he didn’t “value” himself as being worthy of someone going to extra trouble for him..or doing nice things…OR if he felt, that he really didn’t want to “bother” for me so..he’d feel guilty if I bothered for him…
He never appreciated the little things or big things I did for him.
I got the same uninspired reaction if I put 20% into something for him or if I put 150%. Eventually I stopped wanting to try to do nice things..
He is always overwhelemed, Financially, then his house (which he is still building), which was started just before we met.. His work, financially, now one of his parents is ill, ( so sad).
I did ALL the planning in the relationship, planned evenings out, had to ask for date nights, always asking him, to “ROW” with me.. that I can’t row alone. He drove when we went out..but NEVER want to TAKE CONTROL AND DRIVE…He never wanted to make any “decisions”, from which restaurant he wanted to go to, I’d ask what he wanted for dinner, he didn’t care.
IN THE 18 MONTHS..He never offered to help me around my house. I said.. you never offer to make me dinner, he said..it’s not “MY” house, and when he’s in HIS house, he’ll cook for me..
He was never mean, or angry with me. I started to wonder what ever got this guy excited about anything.. He was a good lover, affectionate, Told me loved me, always holding my hand and kissing me.. and holding me.. but it was very very SURFACE.. Even the “quality” and quantity of love making diminished over the last few months.
I’d talk about dreams for the future, building a life together, having a baby.. and the answer was always the same.. it’s not a good time right now, I’m so overwhelmed, I have so much on my plate, give me more time..
He NEVER went out of his way, to do the “minor” but important love stuff… Flowers once. 1st Anniversary, never bought me a card or present. I told him, it hurt my feelings. He appologized and said, yes,thank you for letting me know and you are right, I need to step it up and show you how special you really are to me. Then NOTHING.
He never denied his inability to GIVE..
I constantly felt like I had to ASK for everything in the relationship. His attention, His love, to love me more, to try harder, to give me a sign. He says he loves me very much, never wanted to hurt me. He just is scared. Has this “fear” and when asked to list his fears.. he can’t. He says I don’t know what they are.
As soon as I become detached.. (more often in the last 6 months), he turns it on just enough to make re-think things. It was an aweful pattern that was eating away at my essence. Everytime we’d “talk” he’s say nothing.
He’d get emotional and we’d cry together, he’d hold me. Tell me he loves me. Then go wipe his eyes, and pretend nothing happened. This happened at LEAST 5 times.
I’m sad, because I’ve seen glimpses and moments of the man he really is. But is choosing to remain stuck within himself emotionally. He admited that he became like this closer to the end of his 1st Marriage. Of course.. because who wants to be with someone that can’t love them FULL ON!!!!..
Be loving, caring and compassionate ladies.. but from a difference. PLEASE UNDERSTAND AND BELIEVE THEM WHEN THEY SAY.. .. THIS IS ALL I CAN GIVE RIGHT NOW.. they mean it. It’s not going to change unless they want it to.
After a very emotional night, lots of tears, and loving put painful discussion, I said.. “I feel the bar you have set for this relationship is so low that I have found myself trying to change and be satisfied with what you are willing to give… It’s causing me to feel insecure, unsure of myself and the feeling that I have loweredmy expectations. It’s affecting my emotional integrity”.. I could stay and play the game,but that is not who I am…While I am afraid of losing you… I am MORE afraid of losing myself, so I need to OPT out.
*sigh*.. I’m sad, very sad..There are many wonderful qualities about this man that I love. But I couldn’t ever shake the feeling that if I’m going to be in a relationship, I need to be with someone who can love me FULL ON.. and celebrate who I am.
I am not angry at him.. I am upset with myself, that I did not listen and believe him when he told me he couldn’t give more. I am upset because I ignored that wonderful, loyal, faithful voice in my soul that said.. this isn’t right.
I could see our present and future.. unfortunately,, I was the only one!!!
I really hope he finds the healing he needs.
I am now beginning my healing journey!
Anonymous August 17th, 2007, 5:15 pm
Its exhausting! 99% of the day i have wasted for 2 years trying desparetly to make my EUM fall in love with me. Tried every psychological tactic i could believing that if i have patience, give him space, blah blah that he would eventually see the benifits of us being togther and that its not so ‘terrifying’ as he says.My poor friends must be bored stiff of listening to me go on and on.My problem is the same as everyone elses that when i withdraw, he returns like a snake waiting to bite, and when he realizes he has me again, he recoils…..again!!This is not a sexual relationship now although it has been, but we spend the night together in the same bed, torture. IHow do you get the strengh to say no when they return, i try and try to move on but feel helpless that i can suceed in sayin no to him. Im sick with anxiety and depression through this, its crazy and i want it to stop because i know i deserve better. Feel so so sad!
Ann August 17th, 2007, 7:17 pm
Hi J and anonymous
I can so relate to all of this and the immense frustration. I particularly identify with anonymous and the non-sexual relationship. I have spent the last two years with the intimate side reducing to zero although in the beginning it was great and I thought that together we had reached an amazing bond. We even went to Paris for a long weekend after I had been out of the country for 3 months. We never made love once!!! I never want to go anywhere with him again because this was such a blow in a city built for lovers. I have spent night after night lying in the same bed wanting to reach out and be intimate (on the occasions i did I was met with rejection to the point that I didn’t try any more). But it is hell! I made my move on the 10th August into my own home, and he came down for the weekend to help me fix things to walls. He likes doing DIY so I decided to make the most of what was on offer because, I feel that I am getting something back. However, I agree with J and realise they do mean what they say when they say they can’t give more than what is being offered. It puzzled me for months and stupidly thought that he would give more in time doh! I held out for more which never materialised. So now that I have moved away, he emails, calls 1-2x daily, tells me he loves me when he finishes the call but most importantly for me, never says that he misses me. So I am still reassured that I have made the right decision to move out because now I live180 miles away, and can start to phase him out. (I had always wanted to live by the sea and I did have the sense to decide that I was going to do it anyway whether he came or not. ) Like anonymous above, I too was the only one that could see the present and the future. I agree it is very sad…. I am really enjoying my own space in my house now. I go around with a smile on my face and I feel an inner growing peace. I love my new town, I have made new friends and started new hobbies. Life will get better! I have a few niggling health issues which I believe were the result of the years of neglect and frustration in this relationship. Like J I had tried to make the crumbs that were on offer enough when they simply weren’t. My emotional and physical well-being suffered and I am now working on healing myself. I have become emotionally detached from him and I think that I will quote J’s peice above - which was great J - “”I feel the bar you have set for this relationship is so low that I have found myself trying to change and be satisfied with what you are willing to give… It’s causing me to feel insecure, unsure of myself and the feeling that I have lowered my expectations. It’s affecting my emotional integrity”.. I could stay and play the game,but that is not who I am…While I am afraid of losing you… I am MORE afraid of losing myself, so I need to OPT out”"
I value reading all your contrubitions - it feels like on-line support. Thanks so much
Ann
J August 17th, 2007, 7:17 pm
Healing has to start with us. It starts by admitting we have our own issues to deal with and that we have to own the role we play in attracting a EUM. Identifying the hurts and issues and life tapes we need to deal with from our childhoods that make us repeat these problems. Until we do that, our souls will be a cosmic magnet to every EUM in the immediate area. It the law of the universe. We have to learn how to flip our internal, program our emotional wiring (magnet) so it naturally, and automatically repels EUM when they enter our physical space. (think of two negative magnets or two positive magnets how they push eachother way). Until we make the decision to heal ourselves and take responsibility for the choices “we” make.. Our realities will not change.
You can get the strength to say no when they return, only when you get the strength and take the time to say YES to you!
Blessings and strength to you and to us all!
Ann August 17th, 2007, 7:25 pm
How true - I totally believe in the law of attraction and attracting to ourselves what we are doing internally, I realised during my EUM process that I was not nurturning myself enough and now that I have started that the external is changing. it is very exciting indeed. Things that helped me were the film The Secret and books Are you the one for me by Barbara De Angelis and Wild Love by Gill Edwards.
Agreed, blessings and strenght to us all!
J August 17th, 2007, 8:57 pm
Ann, I’m so proud of you! You go girl. You are well on your way..
I was with my EUM for just over a year but the signs started shortly after courting.
Here’s what I’m curious about..
He was with someone for two years and married for almost 2. When we first started dating ( he had been seperated for about 6 months (his divorce became final about 6 months into our relationship)..
Anyway..He said.. they didn’t have sex for the last year of their relationship, but he always made it sound or give the impression (cuz a clear answer doesn’t happen).. that it was “her” that didn’t want sex. Then because she didn’t want it.. it reflects on his self esteem and the cycle started and before you know it.. no sex for a year.
We had a conversation early on in our relationship.. We both talked about how being intimate and physical is an important element in a relationship.
I found this interesting because for the first 3 to 6 months of our relationship.. the sex ROCKED..I mean ROCKED.. Good quality and quantity and connection (for lack of a better term)
Then I found, that after awhile..he never made as much .. then I noticed a few things..
* He had problems climaxing inside me. (which messed with my emotional wiring)
* I even spent 200 dollars on various contraception for him to choose from. I thought he had a fear of getting me pregnant.
* He assured me that wasn’t the issue..
* He loves when I would be “oral” with him, but he rarely was with me. He made such a big deal of it, but it really was rare. I’ve been in many other relationships where my partner was “crazy about “giving” that..
* It made me feel like there was something “wrong” with me to the point where I didn’t want to be “oral” with him.
* we’d go for a half hour or longer..and he couldn’t climax..
* I’d try and address it and he’d say.. You know it happens, lets not make it into something more than that. I don’t want it to become psychological.
* Then in the last month or two..he could go days, even a week without us having sex, making love.
* He claims he didn’t even masturbate when we weren’t together. ( I found that odd, because I feel masturabation is natural and healthy)
* I noticed he had difficulty maintaining an erection during intercourse.
* it wasn’t as firm .
* He stopped going to the gym. He gained about 10 or 15 lbs during the year or so we were together. ( I gained about 10 lbs as well..) You think it’s emotional eating? Duh?
He would always hold my hand in public. He had no issues with public displays of affection.
But I wonder what the “sexual” component is all about? What’s the pattern there..?
J August 17th, 2007, 9:14 pm
Anne,
This is amazing.. Sunday night me and my EUM watched the movie the Secret… It touched me PROFOUNDLY!.. You think there is a coincidence between me seeing that and me finally having to ask him to leave three nights later?
You know he watched it intently. I didn’t think he would.. He’d even squeeze my hand in certain parts. But after it was over.. I could never get a real sense what he “felt” about it. WHat he thought about it.
That was true for most things in our relationship.. His lack of emotion or passion in reacting to different things left me unable to determine, what he liked, disliked, was passionate about, what would make him smile, what would make him feel special. I don’t know what his favorite food is, I don’t know his favorite colour. He could eat a meal that was horrid, or one that I spent hours on(that left others speechless).. and he’d say the same thing.. it’s okay.
I never felt that he was truly “GRATEFUL” for anything. Or that he appreciated the little stuff.
I never felt that he really wanted to get to know me that deeply.. he would brag that he had me all figured out.. he knew what I am all about.. but he never did the things he KNEW would make me feel special or feel good..
Oh dear goodness, about 3 months into our relationship I sent him an email that detailed.. sweetly.. things that made me smile, and feel special, and laugh… little things.. HE NEVER DID ONE THING..
The nicest thing he ever did for me “without asking” was: ordering me a free catalogue on line. *sigh*..
Now if I asked.. He would do nearly anything for me. But I would have to ask, generally more than once… AND if it was serious.. I would withdrawl..and he would STEP IT UP.. for that moment.
I’ve read those books by Barbara.. When we were dating..I even gave him the book early on in our our relationship.. “WHAT WOMEN WANT MEN TO KNOW”… LOL..
Oh, I must get that Wild Love book!..
Ann August 17th, 2007, 10:35 pm
Hi J
This is so spookily similar to my guy even down to the sexual patterning. Yes the Secret is good and I got him to watch a bit of it before his eyes glazed over! ho hum, typical of his reaction to any deap thought about cause and effect.
On your comments about sex, the last time we had sexual contact, I gave him oral and then he said it was nice and then wanted to go to sleep without even a move towards returning the favour. All the other bits about not knowing what he thinks and feels about stuff is also identical. last month I mentioned all these things to a therapist friend of mine who suggested that he could be displaying the signs of aspergers disease and he may have had it all his life and it has never been picked up. This is the mild form of autism where the individual concerned does not know how to relate/communicate emotionally. It kind of made sense when I did a bit of research, but it still didn’t figure because like you, I provided a list of things I liked and he did none of them including kissing me! His kisses consisted of pecks on the lips and not full blown snogs. Like your guy he has no problems holding hands, giving me a hug etc, but intimacy is just avoided. When I have pushed the kissing into a more eventful snog, he does try to pull away and return to the pecking variety. he also always keeps his eyes open and when I see his eyes, they have a look of bewilderment in them. It is all very strange and like you I started thinking that there was something going on the sexual bits department and got him to take vitamins, amino acids - L-arginine that helps with errection. I got him to go to his GP to get his blood checked out - that was ok and his gp asked if he suffered from erectile dysfunction and he replied that he didn’t. Like your guy, mine doesn’t masterbate either - I found this out early on because I asked what he did in between seeing me. The fact that your descriptions are so similar to mine of the behaviour, leads me to think that there must be something psychological going on as well. I have explored his early childhood background and the roots could be there - it was dysfunctional and he ended up looking after his mother. His father was also an EUM and his mother put up with it until he passed away. I have thought that he is now mimicking his father’s behaviour. his mother and i are quite similar, we are upbeat, caring and kind. Also if I am like his mother, then he wouldn’t be interested sexually. Another thing I put together from his early comments about his background, was that he enjoyed not giving his sister the things that he knew would make her happy. I interpreted this to be the way that he got to be in control in his family by witholding. Now projected into his adult life, he is continuing to get control by witholding sex, affection, intimacy because it is the one thing he can easily control and they know it makes us suffer. It is a kind of “well lets see who is really in charge here” . He also mentioned early on that on the death of a close friend, he felt that he should have felt more at his funeral. He noted that he didn’t feel as upset as he should of. This was a major concern for him at the time - this may link up with the aspergers idea.
I am successful in my life and take on lots of challenges and I know, because he has told me, he is resentful of this. If this is one of the games he is playing, then it is a cut off your nose to spite your face scenario and sad. For my part, I attracted an EUM because I had been trying to work through my own stuff with my EUM father. Unconsciously I have been attracting a similar situation with my adult relationships in the hope it would have a different outcome ie the EUM would suddenly be EM. I think that this is what makes it so difficult for many of us to let go of these types of relationships despite all the chat and support from our friends - we are hooked into it because of our own stuff. Through this last experience, I completely cleared mine by understanding that I wasn’t rejected by my father, that it was just the way he was and that I also had to stop rejecting myself. So I am now in healing mode and the magnetic poles are changing and starting to repel the EUM. Interestingly I was on a course recently and some of the men made a big thing of me, it was so nice to be chatted up and to sense a genuine interest in me as a woman. Like your guy mine never really seemed that interested in me and I spent more time getting to know him and his likes, and join him in his hobbies etc
Like your guy he is very helpful and does things when asked like DIY, get things from the shops, order stuff on line but ask for itimacy, he squirmes like a child being asked to eat his peas!. he was just off the phone telling me about a programme I might like on TV proving the helpful side. maybe it will work at a friendship level and he may still feature from time to time, but next relationship, will be a two way process because that is the only way forward!
At the end of the day, I know that he will be like this with every girlfriend (like your guy, his previous relationships had sexual problems where the frequency fell off). I think that in your guy’s case, he was probably in denial about his part in the break up and his lack of interest in sex, or if it was the other way around, he was unable to play the control game via sex and was given a taste of his own medicine which would have lead him to leave the relationship if the purpose of it was to control. But it is very interesting to hear about your and other’s experiences. The level of detail about the behaviour from your comments I easily relate to and recognise in a way that I seem to be able to convey to my close girlfriends who all said very quickly to dump him without helping me resolve the puzzle of what was actually happening.
The thing that is the ultimate puzzle for me with an EUM is how at the beginning it is so good and why they don’t want this to continue. is it that when you first fall in love, you are so blind and really only feeling your own connection and miss the back that they are not engaged? Your comment about the sex being Rocking doesn’t appear to hold that theory up. I have read heaps on relationships and I still do not have a definitive answer! Reading a Brief History of Time by prof Stephen Hawking seems much easier!!
Off to bed now. Night night
Ann August 17th, 2007, 10:36 pm
Forgot to ask j, did your guy have very low energy and want to go to his bed really early ie 9.30pm?
Anonymous August 17th, 2007, 10:52 pm
I just so want to say how valuable all this information that you guys write is!! Makes me feel so not alone, thank you! Noone else really understands, you cant until you’ve experianced it can you? Im doing honours psychology/statistics at uni, single parent etc would consider myself a strong 34 year old scottish woman, which is why i’m at a total loss as to how i ended up here, is it lonlieness?? But i have friends etc, i just do not understand, life is not easy and maybe we just have to accept the mess of it all, all we want is love, our fundamental need, not a crime! Maybe we care too much. But thank you thank you for being there where ever you are, for understanding! I feel….not alone!! x
J August 18th, 2007, 12:06 am
Anne, I’ll respond to your questions when I get home. Going out with a girlfriend tonight for some drinks….
Quick note though… My EUM.. After the 1st month - He was always exhausted and tired.
The interesting part is that he really didn’t fit a lot of the non affectionate signs of an EUM… For a majority of our relationship.. We had some real amazing what I felt where emotionally connected intimate/physical moments.
Intersting though.. on those amazing weekends.. where I felt totally amazing and happy and positive and that things were “okay”….
He seemed to withdraw the Monday to Wednesday, even up to a Thursday..
He joked to a friend of mine, that he’s pretty much been a “part time” boyfriend..and during one discussion.. he even used the term.. or phrase..that we had “half a relationship”.. that didn’t feel good or right..
Anonymous - We end up here because - WE NEED TO LOVE and CHERISH OURSELVES FIRST. There is a part of all of us here, that for some reason is seeking that “part” of happiness, externally. Believing that it can be found when we find the right person. The right partner. I am clearly learning that until “I” am my own best partner. I love all of me, for who I am..just as I am.. I can expect no one else to “fill me up” that way. I need to fill myself up.
A very close mate of mine. said to me… You know, in your female friendships you are very clear in your expectations and you are always true to who you are. But sometimes in relationships I change the rules, put up with attitudes and treatment that you wouldn’t tolerate in your friendships. I have a lot of strong friendships. I cherish and my mates are really supportive right now…I’m so blessed!
It is a very true statement. One I need to explore further.
We are not alone. I believe, I really believe that.
Also, I’m in Canada…. (((waving))).. …so yes.. we will find strength in one another… and move forward.. one step at a time.
I have no anger for my EUM. He is who he is. He deserves to feel love, just as much as we all do.
Can you imagine, not being able to truly absorb and feel love and a true heart connection?
We were brought together for a reason. I have experienced a profound life lesson that I truly believe will serve as a true catalyst to healing! I just pray that in someway, now or in the future he will see the opportunity in our coming together, as a real catalyst to his healing.
Has anyone read any books or articles on men who are on their healing journey from being Emotionally Unavailable?
J August 18th, 2007, 3:32 pm
Last night I went out with a dear friend. It was fun. I had toooooo many Margarita’s..LOL… My tummy doesn’t feel that great this morning…ugh..
I have not heard from EUM since I asked him to leave Wed night/Thurs morning. I didn’t want to, but my soul it was what I needed to do. And deep down I can’t help but feel that he wanted or needed for me to ask him to leave?
Why does it feel that way? It’s like by me asking him to leave. in his mind he now has “permission” to COMPLETELY disengage from me. To go and emotionally hide. To Shut me out ( or the world).
I wonder if he feels sad or a sense of relief (that he doesn’t have to pretend anymore?)
I feel both..I’m sad and yet it feels like this heaviness in my heart and this weight I’ve been feeling from having to “carry” the relationship emotionally and not getting enough back.. has been lifted.. I feel emotionally lighter..
When ever there was some sort of “crisis” in our relationship. When I was at a major crossroads, saying I need more..This isn’t my definition of a healthy relationship…maybe we aren’t meant to be… He might not call for a day or so…or couldn’t be reached…f( we would at least talk on the phone at night before sleep to say goodnight every night.).. and when I would finally get in touch with him…. he’d say.. “I’m exhausted, I guess I just shut down or I am overwhelmed.
I can’t remember how many times I said to him during this past year. “You know, why is it that even though we have been together now for (insert number of months here) that I still feel “single”. I don’t feel like we are a couple” I’m trying so hard to “connect” with you and your heart and I feel this resistance.. like if I get to close emotionally or try there is this imaginary hand of yours that is stretched out.. stopping me from getting any closer.
I would say.. Listen.. if you don’t love me and don’t see a future with me, It will suck, but I’ll deal with it. But you need to be honest with me.
He’d say.. You know I love you, you know how special you are to me, I just have so much on my plate.. There is (insert crisis or excuse here) and this and this and that..
And I would say.. my love that is called LIFE. There will ALWAYS be something that comes up.. but when you love someone, you juggle all that stuff around your “partner”.. not “fit” your partner in when it suits your schedule.
It took him just over a year to introduce me to his “office” mates. It took him almost a year to start introducing me as his “girlfriend”.. and I thought that was such a freak’n breakthrough.. sheesh babeesh!!!.. How pathetic is that!!!!!
We went on holidays This march..(Our first vacation together) and going through customs at the airport.. “going there”.. the agent says.. are you travelling together? EUM says no. and goes to the custom booth on his own, I go to the next one.. We meet back up and I look at him and say
WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT ABOUT?.. he’s like.. well.. we’re not married..
I said..that’s not what he asked.. WE ARE TRAVELLING TOGETHER !!!!
On the way back..( we had a great vacation) all of a sudden.. we were “travelling together”.
so confusing..
I really did think I was starting to lose my mind, doubt my insticts, my perceptions.
That last night.. He admitted that I wasn’t imagining anything, and said that I was very self aware, a great communicator and incredbily perceptive and that my perceptions about him and his behavior were correct. He agreed that I deserve better. he never wanted to hurt me. He doesn’t mean to frustrate me He is sorry.
Not once did he say he wanted to change. Or try and understand why he is the way he is.
*sigh*..
*sigh*..
Why is is that when we spent time together..Like a full day on the weekend ( I always had to ask him to arrange it so we could spend an entire day together..he would spend his weekend days building his new house)… I would feel so full, then come monday morning.. I would feel empty and lonely.
I thought it was odd that he never felt the desire or need to (no matter how busy our schedules are) to want to pop by to give me a kiss or cuddle goodnight. We only live about 20 minutes from eachother.
It’s like we are together, but it was so surface. Sure we’d go out with friends, and to family functions and celebrations. His family really is wonderful to me. My family has welcomed him. But I started to get really sensitive when people and friends would say, “things are going well?, you think you guys will move in together?.. And I am like.. I don’t know.. I have no idea, he never talks about a future together, he never talks about “us” and dreams and plans.
It’s like everything in our relationship I had to ASK for.
I’d say..
after different stages and natural growth milestones in relationships that just generally happen…nothing was “natural”
I had to tell him, that I don’t feel special and it hurts when you don’t call me everyday or talk to me. We had been going out 5 months and I said, do you not find it odd that you have no desire to speak with me everyday? that you don’t have a general desire to find out about my day, about you sharing your day?..
Eventually when he sensed I was about “done” He would do things..but it was weird.. he’d call and say… Hi… see.. I’m calling you just to say hi…( like whoohoo…look at what I great guy I am.. I’m calling you like a good boyfriend) look and eventually I knew I could expect a call from him everynight between 9:30 and 11:00 PM when he was driving back from his house to say goodnight to me.
We did spend a fair bit of his “free” time with me. But that’s it..
NOTHING felt like it came naturally from him emotionally.
I had to push him to plan things or to think ahead for almost EVERYTHING when it came to us. Longweekend plans, vacation plans, having a full day together plan, going to a movie plan.
He would tell me he loved me on the phone, in person, when I was sad or frustrated, he would hold me, cuddle (snog?) with me in his arms and tell me he loved me very much.
Why couldn’t I feel it?.. Why didn’t it seem “real” or genuine?
Everytime I would really question him on what I perceived him not wanting this relationship or not trying.. he would look at me with his amazing blue eyes and say.. “just love me”. It felt so cruel, because I was giving him 120% of myself and my love and it felt like I only got “crumbs” back. But I would take the crumbs.
and the cycle/pattern would start again.
This is the longest silence from him I experienced since January.
I sent him an email the other day. My healing letter. I know he received it, he sent me a return receipt.. but nothing else.
Ann August 18th, 2007, 9:02 pm
Hi J in Canada, I am in Devon, England (((waving back)))
I had a similar incident to your travel and customs episode. We went to purchase a new sofa and when it came to filling out the form for the credit deal on offer, the sales guy asked his marital status he said with full conviction that he was single. I dug him up for it later and he said, well we are not married are we? true, but he could have at least said that we were an couple.
We have been on several holidays together but on each occasion he has sabbotaged it in some way: being moody, withdrawn and just down right inflexible (he hates the beach and hot sunshine) I have decided never to go on holiday with such a type again because when I get back I feel annoyed at having spent so much money not enjoying myself!
What did you say in your healing letter?
Hi anonymous
I too am Scottish but I don’t think that it is a Scottish trait, my guy is English public school - maybe a contributory fact… yes it is good to share this stuff otherwise you can feel very cut off and friends just dont understant the ins and outs of it either if they have not experienced it. Have you in your psychology studies come across the roots of EUM? or what heals them?
Has anyone ever thought that they were dealing with a closet gay? I did at one point because he was so uninterested in my physically or even eyeing up other women in the summer. I quizzed him about this and as usual got the same vague non-commital response. He did have a very close friendship with a chap that died very young but as I mentioned earlier at this chap’s funeral, he was concerned that he didn’t feel as much.
Sorry J, I have not heard about any books that detail recovery from being EU. But it is not without searching. If I do discover some, I will post them here.
Wishing you all a peaceful night
J August 19th, 2007, 3:03 am
Hey Ann,
What didn’t I say in my “healing” letter.
I just let my heart out about everything I said could not BLAME, and I also included the “signs” and characteristics of someone who is EU…and the defintion that says that if you are involved with an EU, part of you is an EU as well.
My EUM called me today. He told me he read my letter this morning. That it was well written. He asked me to stop by his house (that he’s building) for Lunch. He had picked up lunch.. It was a very emotional afternoon.
He hugged and held me.. and we cried. i was shaking. He said that he couldn’t argue with what I wrote. That I communicate so well and it was easy to keep reading because it wasn’t angry.
He could feel the compassion in the words. That he appreciated the positive nature of the letter. He said he knew something is wrong with him, but he had no idea that he fit so many of the characteristics of being Emotionally Unavailable. He said.. He hasn’t been like this always. But it has happened before. He says he’s not happy within himself and that he is lacking desire at work, and even with his house.
That
I said to him.. I went online and thought maybe you were dating women all over the world. He looked puzzled. I said, other woman were describing their EUM and I said there were so many similarities..that I thought they could all be dating him.. He laughed.
He shared a little more of his issues with me. I shared more with him. Out of respect, I don’t want to go into detail. But it was very emotional, very cleansing and very enlightening.
He looked at me..really looked into my eyes.. wanting me to feel him trying to connect.
We are quite the emotionally disfunctional pair at the moment .. LOL..
I now realize that I have just as many issues I need to work out. I now realize that as much he is blocked by fear.
I am also blocked by fear.
Fear of not being worthy of love, fear of abandonment, fear of not fullfilling my dreams ( which include a partner and a child or children. I’m 41+ and I’m feeling this time crunch. I also know that I probably have an unhealthy/unrealistic expectation of how a “man” , if he is the “right” one is supposed to make me feel emotionally.
I am not for a moment excusing his behavior. I know his tears and pain were real. I don’t know if he is feeling “his” pain. Or if his tears and emotion was because he was feeling “my” pain.
how he was in our relationship was real. He addmitted that. He also said that I have to believe him when he says that those moments when we connected and he seemed happy and loving were real. It’s just that the fear would take over.
I had no idea how much FEAR i have inside me. Sheesh babeesh, I AM A WALKING FEAR BOMB!
I know I have to work on my issues if I’m to have a healthy relationship with him. If not him then another.
I know I need to work on accepting and filling this acceptance and unconditional love that I so desire. I NEED TO FILL THAT MYSELF. Once I accept myself and unconditionally love myself. I will better be able to LOVE others unconditionally. I’m loving him with CONDITIONS.
I realize that I’m always starving for my partner (present and past) to love me unconditionally when I am not very good at loving them unconditionally, with their flaws.
I am not saying I need to have lowered expectations or lower the bar, I’m just saying I HAVE TO LOVE MYSELF UNCONDITIONALLY, BEFORE I WILL EVER BE ABLE TO LOVE A MAN UNCONDITIONALLY.
He has this very - I must go it alone - attitude. Can’t rely on others.
I realized that I do as well. I desire my partner to fill up my hunger for acceptance and unconditional love, but I have this unhealthy idea that I can’t be so dependent on a man for my financial and emotional wellbeing, because I’d be broke if the relationship ended. ( nice negative thinking eh?)
I don’t know if we will be able to work through our issues together.
I know I have to work on mine.
He needs to deal and work on his.
He says he needs to get his shit together
He says he wants to find the man that I first started dating.
He told me he really is in love with me.
Before he can love me properly and if we are to have a chance, he needs to work through his stuff.
My fear is this… (rolls eyes) I fear that we will both work on our “stuff” individually and that he will be healed and move on to someone else and have the future I can see. LOL.. UGH.. . and I realize that if that is what the universe intends then so be it, it is meant to be.. but again.. like I said.. I have issues to work on..
I had a revelation at the book store picking out my latest book.
I started to look for a book for him. I was looking for a book for him to read that would help him.
A voice inside my heart said, LET IT GO. STOP TRYING TO FIX HIM. FIX YOU! LOVE YOU!..
Sooo *sigh*.. I bought the book ” Your Destiny Switch” Master your key emotions, and attract the life of your dreams!, by Peggy McColl
I’m about to start reading it.
I don’t know if we will end up together..
But I pray that we will both find healing and peace and the happiness we both truly deserve.
(((peace)))
J August 19th, 2007, 3:24 pm
Please ladies and gentleman..
If you do one good thing for yourself today or this week, this year
Please wander to the bookstore and buy ( or order online)
YOUR DESTINY SWITCH —- MASTER YOUR KEY EMOTIONS AND ATTACT THE LIFE OF YOUR DREAMS - by Peggy McColl
I am really clearly learning that from my experience with my EUM, I am just as — if not more stuck/paralyzed by fear than he is.
And realize now I have a very controlling nature in my romantic relationships about my expectations on how my guy is supposed to act and make me feel. I really understand now that the ONLY ONE WHO CAN DECIDE HOW GOOD I FEEL ABOUT ME - IS ME.
I realize that I am basically sabatoging the relationship (this one and previous ones) because I have an unhealthy expectation of what and how”partner love” is supposed to be with me.
I don’t do it in my female friendships, but because it is tied to my childhood emotional releationships with my father… it manifests itself in my romantic love relationships.
We can tap into the power of our positive emotions to change things.
I sent a not to my EUM last night after I started reading it.
I so desire unconditional love from my partner.
But I clearly - very clearly - have soooo many expecations and conditions attached to my love.
Fear has expectations
Love has no expectations.
Every emotion we feel - WE CREATE.
I am really understanding the true GIFT, the universe has given me, by naturally bringing my EUM into my world.
He is in many ways a mirror of me. Our fears manifest themselves in different ways.
When I am in relationships and things weren’t going the way I had wanted, or I wasn’t getting what I need, I would listen to that voice that said, “Okay, it’s time to take my ball and go home.” and that’s what I did..
I have questioned through out the years if that was a good thing or bad thing.
For about half of our relationship I heard that voice inside me. But then I heard an even STRONGER voice that said. Don’t walk away. Stay. This has been very confusing.
I even told my EUM. I would have left by now, but I have this voice in my soul that says. Don’t walk away from this man.
I believe now that voice is God, the creator, the universe, the higher power that wanted me to stay long enough to understand that what I am seeing in my EUM, is also inside me.
If I had left earlier. I would have done the same thing.. Nice guy, but he has issues. and moved on only to wait for ANOTHER man to come into my life and put my same “issues” onto them.
My EUM truly has been my “GIFT” from the universe. I can see CLEARLY.. now that I must ALWAYS look INWARD for my happiness.
I don’t know if we will end up together, that may not be the universe’s intention with this relationship. But I am full of gratitude and joy for what I already have and what that the universe will provide me with what I desire and need.
I trust in the Universe. I trust in myself. I have faith and confidence that I will have the life that I dream.
(((PEACE)))
Anonymous August 19th, 2007, 5:20 pm
Wow this is truley enlightening! It is not something i had thought about at all, that the problem lies within us also. I too have father issues ( he left to go back to the country he was from when i was 9..my biggest heartbreak ever!), I thought i had dealt with the fear of abandonment, rejection issues etc, i like to think i’m strong and emotionally independent, but im beginning to realize that clearly i haven’t and that perhaps i am an EUM too, intresting!
I’ve just spent the last 2 days with him and have that ‘full’ feeling, we talked constantly, he says he cant talk to anyone like he can me, i went with him to his dads birthday last week and he said family members were phoning him to ask about me, he said he told them i was his ‘girlfriend’ (That is a huge step for me) I know we love each others company so much but when we go to bed, no sex or kissing, both nights! What is this?? I have thought that because he has ‘the fear’ of intimacy that its too much for him to make that move and because i dont due to my fear of rejection, nothing happens. Its so frustrating but i hope that when he’s ready it will happen naturally. He has been really hurt in the past and one of his girlfriends had a sexual affair with one of his friends.Also in the beginning when we didnt know each other that well, a year and a half ago, we did have sex, its as if he can have sex with someone he doesnt really care about. Once, a while ago we did have sex and he came, he told me then that alot of times he has sex he doesnt come, he can only really come when he is in a relationship.I felt amazing!But now we are so much closer and the no sex has become an unspoken issue. If it was just a case of him not being into me in that way then why would he call me his girfriend and bring me a choclate love heart etc.I cant bring it up, i dont know why.The gay thing has crossed my mind in the past but i know he is definately not. Maybe he’s just not that sexual..dunno!!! Its a very odd situation. Any thoughts on this?
I feel positive though from reading your stuff as i know i have a plan of action to deal with the empty monday morning feeling coming…focus on myself and get busy!
Thanks guys.
J August 20th, 2007, 5:57 am
Hey Anonymous,
It took my boyfriend almost a year to introduce me as his girlfriend to his office mates. When I met them for drinks the first time.. most of them were gobsmacked. They had no idea that he was even seeing someone never mind a year!
I too thought this was a huge milestone.. but you know.. I’m learning this - (not intended with negativity) just because he calls me his girlfriend, tells me he loves, buys me dinner, holds me and hugs me, kisses me sweetly, makes love to me. It’s about ACTIONS, not words. If he loves me and is emotionally available, his ACTIONS will naturally -without prompting, asking, pleading, and begging… and with INTENT.. will show me that he loves me.
I looked in the mirror today and promised myself, that the only person I will give my 100 percent effort on making them fall in love with me… is ME.
I promised I would never ever put myself in a situation where I felt the need to “try” to make a man fall in love with me. If I start to feel that, I will realize that I need to step away and re-focus on myself and do an EUM check.
I know that as I work through my issues and learn to love myself unconditionally and then love others without expectations ( doesn’t mean I will lower my standards)…
I know that when I am truly happy within myself and learn to truly believe and celebrate the awesome person/woman that I am.
I know that when I live my life, truthfully, with intent to be all I can be and share my dreams with the universe in a positive way, I believe in all I have to share with the universe, that the universe (God, The Creator, Higher Power) will here and feel my energy and return it to me 10 fold.
I do not have any illusions. My blinders are off.
I went for brunch with a girlfriend today, then I popped by my EUM’s house (the one he’s building) and said.. I’m here to help. Put me to work.
I know this may sounds odd, given what’s happen in the last few days.
but after I read half that book, I realized that if I was going to heal, I had to stop resenting. I have resented him building that damn house for the past 8 or 9 months. Because he doesn’t talk about future plans or us living together or anything like that ( I have my own house), I had grown to resent, that place.
I needed to help today for :
Myself - I needed to deal with that and realize that I was creating those emotions. I needed to be real with myself and my soul that what ever our issues are (mine, his, ours) .. it has nothing to do with that house!
For Him: Fear has expectations. Love doesn’t. I had never offered to help him with that house because I figured, if he’s not building it for us.. I’m not helping. It’s my fear. He has tried to explain to me for MONTHS, whenever I got frustrated. How to him, finishing and living in this house is very important for him and his self-esteem. Today, without judgement, without expecations I just helped. I felt great. He has made it very clear that this house is HIS journey. and If I truly love him, then I need to respect that and show my support. I would do it for a friend in a heartbeat, so why wouldn’t I do it for him.
Will this mean I expect him to help me around my place? (He hasn’t yet)
No. Would it be nice? Yes.
The only actions I can control are mine.
I felt very real and true to my soul today.
Please don’t confuse this with thinking that I think everything is all better and we’ll live happily ever after.
I believe, have faith and know that when I do my internal work, there will
be a fabulous loving, caring, passionate, EMOTIONALLY AVAILABLE man that the universe will bring me… He will will love me for me. Because I already love me for me. He will be a compassionate, funny, caring, loving, intelligent, articulate, successful man, because that is who I am ( woman ) The key difference.. is that I will be emotionally available in the sense that I will not not transfer my “issues” from my childhood onto the man in my relationship.
I am not making any excuses for my EUM. I love him, but he still needs to do the work on his issues. I can’t help him with that.
If he does and I do… then we have a chance.
If not…Our destiny’s will be different.
Only time will tell. No more empty feeling…. from now on.. we fill “ourselves” up.
When we do that, we are ensuring that the “man” in our life deserves us!
(((peace)))
J August 20th, 2007, 10:25 pm
I made a call to a therapist I have seen in the past. Met with her today.
*sigh*..
Why is it that I can download and share all this stuff with my closest friends, my partner and one hour with this woman, makes me feel so much lighter emotionally. *sigh*..
Shared with her the same stuff.. about him, about me..
No solutions of course.. but agrees, basically
He’s emotionally unavailable - has major fears — that prevent him from emotionally establishing, involving, connecting with a love partner.
She said this is very very common with many many men.
She agreed (knowing my history) that I have alot of my “own” issues - FEAR —regarding transferring my childhood issues into my romantic male relationships ( trying so hard to connect with my father emotionally)…
She said he does probably love me - it’s just what he knows and he is saying it in his own way/language -what he knows.
She recommended the book. THE 5 LANGUAGES OF LOVE.
She also agreed that the fact that I can see that his arrival in my life is a GIFT.. a gift to one another of having someone that can help me learn more about myself.. and HEAL.. and an opportunity for us to help HEAL eachother.. only if we are both willing to do the work..
Whatever happens.. I have to be prepared (WHICH I AM).. to do my work formyself - by myself.. whether he is prepared to work on us or not.
I knew that.. but it felt good to hear her remind me..
I really feel better.
I really need to hear from you guys!!!! Hello? Everybody okay?
Be good to yourself!
Anonymous August 21st, 2007, 10:51 am
Hi J, glad your feeling better and doing work on yourself. Im just wondering myself what the work is? The only thing i do that helps is try and get busy,but here i am in the library just now studying for a resit (first one in 3 years, due to spending all my time analysying my ‘relationship’) and again im finding it sooo hard to concentrate as cant get my mind to focus due to analysing my weekend with EUM….AAAARGH!! Also i read alot of good self help books in order to make myself feel better, buddism books to help me detach and let go and various others but when i do i end up thinking of him and his issues and feeling sorry and deeply FOR HIM and i wonder sometimes how much it really helps, all this analysing! We obviously all have analyitcal minds and sometimes i cant help feeling its a bit of an affliction, thinking too much!! I dont know..confused, sorry if im sounding negative but it seems no matter how much i read, for myself, i still would drop anything to be with this man when it scomes to the crunch.The only thing i can see helping us move on is no contact but that feels impossible, im scared of wasting my time and ending up with nothing but regrets.I dont know, just dont know.
I talked to a counsiller about it a while ago when i was desperately trying to ‘get out’ I told him i thought i was involved with a narcissist, then i thought maybe he was a sociopath, then gay, now just plain old heartbroken. I have spent soo long trying to figure him out. The counsiller helped for a day or two but it feels like OCD and as long as contact remains i seriously feel like it wont change.
Im going now to try so hard to take my mind away from this for a bit and study, that will def make me feel better, doing things that i want to achieve, setting myself goals, being a good mum, they help my self esteem.Im going to avoid the self help reading for abit, unless on here as it feels like its just another way i engadge with HIM!
Big Love!!
I
J August 22nd, 2007, 3:30 pm
Hey A -
I hear you!!!!
It’s funny isn’t it. I have a WALL of self-help relationship books that I’ve collected over the years. The first instinct or pattern I have when a relationship isn’t working or ends, is to to run out and find a book to help me heal..
- That’s exactly what I’ve done in this relationship..
Lets see - around the 4 or 5 months mark - I was so frustrated and hungry to reach him and connect I went out and bought
- What men want women to Know
- What women want men to Know (read it then gave it to him…he still hasn’t read it)
- another about figuring out the patterns in previous relationships…
- Now the DESTINY SWITCH.. is my latest.
- I have ordered -The Emotionally Unavailable Man: A Blueprint for Healing by Patti Henry .
One of my first appointments when I’m struggling in a relationship, or it ends ( I’ve gone JUST for myself for various reasons when I am not dating)
is to my therapist.
Like you. I’m always analyzing my relationship. ALWAYS. Could it really be an affliction?
What did that mean, He didn’t do that - what message is he trying to send me. He did this - what message is he trying to send me. He did this - ohhhh then he must love me.. If I do this…- it will help him understand -
If I do that - it will help him understand.. AND ON AND ON AND ON.
I am so confused still - because like you. I find cutting myself completely off from him very difficult.
I saw him Sunday. Only because I popped by on my own.
- When I left that night. At the door he kissed me and said - I’ll call you tomorrow.
- Monday morning - I email him another letter. Basically saying.. I love you . I can’t continue like this. I need to work on “my” issues. You say you need to work on “your” issues. But if we are to have a chance, there needs to be a working on “us” at the same time.
I spoke about, how if this is important to both of us, that it is not about words anymore. It’s about our ACTIONS.. blah blah blah.
That’ I’m ready to do the work,
I pray he is,
and that our actions or inactions will make things very clear, very quickly.
- NEVER HEARD FROM HIM ALL DAY MONDAY.
- NEVER HEARD FROM HIM ALL DAY TUESDAY
No phone, email, or text. NADDA
Because I am a glutton for punishment, pop by his house (the one he is building) on my way home from a 12 hour day at work - saw his truck there. Knocked on the door.
He was painting.
He’s smiling when he sees me.
He looks very happy to see me.
He invites me in.
No hug, No kiss, No addressing the letter.
He tells me he took the day off of work and spent the entire day, working inside, takes me for a tour to show me all he has accomplished.
He asks about my day - because he knew how busy and important and big it was for me. Wants the details,
I’m still stuck on —-He hasn’t called for two days…
I’m still stuck on —–if he knew it was such a big day for me, why he didn’t call to say…Hey, I know you have a HUGE day tomorrow.. just want to let you know I’m thinking of you.
He offers me some Pizza and a drink of water
I talk more about work.
He also talks about everything around the house, about his meeting the other day, how he is going to take his parents to their doctors appointment (Wednesday)
I mention something else, slipping in the fact that I saw my therapist.
(nothing, no bite)
I mention that I have a charity golf tournament in September. He said he does too. I’m puzzled, because I’ve been trying to get him to go golfing since JUNE. My dad even gave me a set of clubs for him to use. We have not gone ONCE..
Now he’s like
He says we have to go golfing soon together, because he needs to practice.
He talks about the game Friday - How he’s looking forward to it
I’m thinking to myself - Really?
He says how he is looking to spending some quality time with me at the game?
I’m confused , I’m thinking to myself - You are?
You still want to do to the game with me, hang out with me and my family and act like “everything is okay”.
I look at him confused.
He smiles
I say I should go..and get up
He talks about how he’ll be there late
He says I’d hug you but I don’t want to get you dirty. He kisses me goodnight.. (surface kiss) (our first and only contact for about the 45 minutes I was there)
I look into his eyes and try to understand.
I am just more confused.
I just turn and leave without saying goodbye, without saying goodnight.
I walk to my car without saying goodbye. He’s standing there. watching.
He waves and smiles at me as I drive away.
I wave back - confused
I get home and my neighbour is having wine with some friends. He invites me over. I have enough to get tipsy.
Then I get a text late last night about 11PM
You out? You still up or you asleep?
I text back.
Up - call if you like!
Nothing,
nothing
nothing
Then I call.
I said did you get my text, he’s like no
(I don’t believe him)
He’s like oh where are you sounds like you are having fun..I should let you go. (I FREAK’N HATE THAT)
I said no I am at B’s.. having a drink..with him and some of his friends (girls and guys)
(I don’t usually drink during the week, never mind have too much)
I said where are you?
He said at the house. he says.. “I just called to say goodnight, sweet dreams.. and I love you.:”
WHAT THE *&%^$(*&& IS THAT ABOUT?
I said like an IDIOT, you coming over?
He said, no.
ANONYMOUS - I’m starting to really feel you are on to something…I really am wondering if I need to cut off ALL contact with him. NOT CALL, NOT INITIATE CONTACT, NO POP BY’S.
Why do I do this? Because I am afraid - fear that if I don’t .. HE WON’T..
I am sooooo afraid of rejection, emotional rejection, that I do things to excuse his behavior and make contact.
That’s MY issue.
What would happen if I didn’t do anything?
The reality is.. If I didnt do anything. And he didn’t call, write, email - for a day, two days, three days..(I haven’t been able to leave it past 2 days yet)…
I DON’T WANT TO HEAR THE ANSWER.
I DON’T WANT TO BELIEVE THE ANSWER
Which is this man
doesn’t call me because - he has no desire to
He is happy to see me - but he would have been just as happy if he didn’t see me
He is looking forward to spending time with me Friday.
The reality is He would look forward to spending tme with anyone or no one Friday.
He is emotionally unavailable.
His ACTIONS showed me that he isn’t interested in working on “us”..
His ACTIONS say, that this is who he is, where he is at, and that expecting anything more than a surface - relationship will only cause me pain.
WHY do we keep doing this to ourselves?
I am the one that keeps going back.
I am the one that keeps trying to fix things.
I think his lack of EVERYTHING, is probably his biggest TRUTH.
He is being who he is…. and he appears to comfortable with that..
I am the one that is not comfortable, that isn’t happy, that wants, desires, dreams.. about us.. blah blah blah..
How do we fix it? How do I fix and “work” on myself..
I’m starting to feel, that FULL ON NO CONTACT WILL HAVE TO BE MY NEXT STEP…
I know there is something inside me..is broken. miswired, needs to heal within me… so i won’t have the desire to keep running into an emotional brick wall, over and over and over again.
Healthy people, run into the brick wall, maybe once and maybe twice…
and decide, This hurts. I don’t want to hurt anymore and the CHOOSE, not to keep doing that to themselves.
They will either walk away and choose a different path, journey.
They will go on living their life, and if the wall comes down, decide to enter then…
But a healthy person does NOT, keep running into the wall OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, by choice.
Only an unhealthy relationship person will continue to inflict emotional pain unthemselves by running into the wall. Or trying to smash the wall down..
UGH..
PEACE
LA August 22nd, 2007, 3:39 pm
One of the secrets to happiness is total acceptance. No attachments, no aversions bring peace of mind. These men will never change, you cannot make them DO anything. Their actions have nothing to do with you. It is THEIR internal programming, just like you have your internal programming. They are who they are. If you don’t like it leave. Maybe, if you let some of this anger and resentment go and allowed things to flow naturally you would have much better relationships. Many times it is not about him it is about you. Stop trying to force.
J August 22nd, 2007, 5:13 pm
Hey LA,
thanks for your words.
The reality that for the first time in myself.. I CLEARLY realise that it is me.
I need to change how I am in male/female relationships.
Flow naturally - this seems to be something that I struggle with, because, I have been in more than one relationship where I don’t feel (again, my internal programming) that it flows naturally.
By that I mean… eventually I think my “childhood internal little girl programming” kicks in and says..
If he likes/cares about me/if I was special to him/If he loves me/If he is “that” into me,
that he would NATURALLY want to
- emotionally connect
- want to be more invested in my life
-want me to be more invested in his life
- create, nuture and build a loving emotionally secure relationship.
I understand now that I need to do ALL those things and many more for myself and live my life that way, without expecting to find a guy to fill that part up in me.
I get that,
But why is it so hard to WALK AWAY. Why am I so bent on trying to reach him .. I know I CAN’T MAKE HIM do anything..
He has always said to me.. He never does anything he don’t want to do.
And he doesn’t! He is very true to himself
He doesn’t want to see me. He doesn’t
He doesn’t want to call me (for days) He doesn’t
He doesn’t want to emotionally invest or make a heart connection with me. He doesn’t. My therapist says, it’s not that he doesn’t want to. It could be that he really can’t at the moment because of all the fear.
Just as I have my fears..
Your statement about Natural Flow.. touches me.. because…I really have to embrace that.. I know that.. but understanding How.. is where my heart
and soul feels stuck.
When I feel things aren’t flowing naturally in a relationship - I tell them..LOL.. I’ve said, I don’t understand why it doesn’t feel like things are flowing naturally.. happening naturally like….then I start to try and direct or redirect the flow..
Resentment, Anger, Frustration, - Any other emotion other than LOVE is a manifestation of FEAR…. I know that..
I know I need to walk away.. and leave.. Not for him. But for me, to HEAL..
But, when I do, his programming kicks in and says… - WHOA –.. must get to to re-engage..So he turns it on… I am not saying that this is an intentional decision to “play me”…. I think it’s so programmed in him, just as my fear is..
I understand the gift, we’ve been given to see these patterns. I can only speak for myself..
I want to heal. I want to have a healthy relationship with an amazing man, because deep down I know that I am an amazing woman. Amazing person. But deep down, DEEP DEEP DEEP down.. I don’t “feel” that about myself.. .I don’t live my life that way. I live my life and incorrectly think that that part will happen when I meet the “right guy”..
I know that is silly..
I know I need to “allow things to flow naturally”
This is must be a mantra I live.. from now on..
Thanks, LA,
(((Peace)))
Anonymous August 23rd, 2007, 10:31 am
Hey! I really think j that if you stop being so available to him, dont call, dont pass by, leave him alone, that this can only work to your advantage no matter what way you look at it. From the point of view of trying to ‘get him’ he will have an opportunity to miss you He will never connect and have those feelings you want if you never give him a chance to feel it himself.Leave it alone and create an empty place in his life to let him see what he’s missing by not having you in his life.The scarcity principle!!! If he comes to you then you know you have something you can work on and if he doesn’t its not ever going to be anything and you can go on with your life. Im doing this and its working!! Im offering genuine friendship right now to my EUM, no espectations, no demands, but im distancing myself more and more and its making him come closer.He’s missing me.I feel i have a bit more control of the situation. I know its the right thing to do as it feels right.I know its so hard to do,but its healthy for both parties. Space space space!! Thats what we need to work out what we want. Im sticking to my plan.
Last night i saw my guy, we had such an intense weekend that i knew this week he would pull back, i was right. He contacted me and we went back to his, had great chats then went to bed. He tells me in bed that he’s confused and he wants to be alone, he has so many thoughts going round his head, he loves me..i just listen and encourage him to do whats best for him, offer freindship, knowing that that might not necessarily be what i want. I think this makes you feel good in yourself and the more i just let him pull away, do his own thing, the more i know he loves me and the closer he comes each time he comes back. He may well hurt me but love is pain also and im prepared to take the risk, as long as im doing things for me, and MY life is moving on and growing!!!!
Big Love!
LA August 23rd, 2007, 3:57 pm
Hello J
Try hypnotherapy. It will allow you to discover why you do what you do and to begin healing. However, you need to be COMMITTED to change and to do what the therapist tells you. Check it out. Find a therapist who is certified as a clinical hypnotherapist. Good luck.
J August 23rd, 2007, 4:19 pm
Hey Anon -
I’m Soooooooooooo proud of you!..
It sounds like you are doing what a friend is supposed to do. Just let them be..
I have not contacted my EUM since he called..( I called him after his text) Tuesday night.
I just say to myself.. Just Let him Be.. Just love him the way “he” needs to be loved at this moment. Which is to give him space.
I’m busy with work, but do feel a sense of peace that what ever will be will be. I know that I will never love in my old pattern again.
I also need to really use this time to heal myself… to Love myself..and learn to start “acting” and “living” who I truly am! I
Baby steps.. My Mantra every day is now..
I know who I am. I am will not be afraid to stand in my power.
I plan on saying it 5000 times a day until it becomes engrained in me at the celular level!
(((PEACE)))
Anonymous August 23rd, 2007, 5:30 pm
Hey, thank you so much for being proud of me, i know you know the agony! Baby steps, yes! One day at a time.He has told me he’s going away for a night camping with his friend, to think about things, says his head is confused and its mostly to do with me, he wants to sort his head out. I know he is going to have a think about this situation and being an EUM im pretty sure where this is going to lead, just as we’ve gotton so close….he is going to hit me with one of his bombshells…”I need to be alone, i cant give you what you want…i cant handle a relationship!!” ….and its all true! and its going to kill me….again! Trying to be strong,leaving him alone.What can you do?? let the bird fly, if it returns…thats true love eh?? Agony!!!!!
J August 23rd, 2007, 7:56 pm
Anon —
It can’t be a bombshell love, because he has already told you all that..maybe not with words, but by actions.. As did my EUM.
Maybe think about it this way..
Try to STOP COMMUNICATING AND LISTENING TO THE WORDS..
We both know what we want to “hear”..*smile*..
I love you, I’m ready, blah blah blah..
It’s ALWAYS about ACTIONS..
- We all have done it..
I told him how much I love him.. unconditionally..
but my actions clearly showed conditions by expecting HIM to make me feel loved and secure in this relationship. (you need to call me more, make me feel appreciated, make me feel special.. make me feel like I’m beautiful)
( Talk about not believing in my own power. Giving away my “specialness” by making my partner determine whether or not I was “worthy” of his love…… sheesh babeesh)
- I said.. I love you just the way you are..
But my actions are saying I CAN’T LIVE THIS WAY.. YOU ARE MAKING ME CRAZY WITH INSECURITY ( texting, phone calls, pop by’s)
well.. it may be more about “our” emotional understanding of ourselves and “our” emotinal freedom.
Why is it the next morning after I asked him to leave that night..
the first questions all my friends asked was.. Do you feel any sense of relief?.. I said.. actually.. yes.. I feel emtionally lighter….
I found this great link to a great story.. about Just letting go..and having faith..I hope it helps your heart…
http://www.ourlittleplace.com/letgo.html
*sigh*..
baby steps…
((((Peace))))
Anonymous August 24th, 2007, 5:19 pm
Hi, great story, sooo true!
J, you wrote,
I said.. I love you just the way you are..
But my actions are saying I CAN’T LIVE THIS WAY.. YOU ARE MAKING ME
CRAZY WITH INSECURITY ( texting, phone calls, pop by’s)
This rings so true to me! I say yeh go away have a great time, you totally need it, it’ll be amazing….now im driving myself nuts wondering where he’ll be, whats he thinking, i want to see him, who’s he with etc etc, yeh what about me!! Do I really want this?? Im feeling bored with it. Its totally crazy.Im going out with a girlfriend tonight and going to try so hard not to think of him, actually no, im going to think great a night out with my friend, enjoy! I need space from him, never mind him from me! Im pretty fed up with it to be honest, this constant longing..
The fear of commitiment? Could it be fear of failure because their last relationships failed and they dont want to take the risk of failing again, their egos wont let them? They feel inside they cant succeed at relationships…..oh i dont know, there i go again and does it really matter?
I know i shouldnt see it as a bombshell but he gives me so much hope sometimes and i cling on for dear life ( little bug on the windsceen) Well im letting go instead of being dragged. Stuff him, boring boring boring!If only i wasnt so bloody crazy about him……aaaaragh the crazieness of it all, want him, sfuff him, love him, pissed off with him, miss him,angry with him, feel sorry for him……..What about me???? This is not what i want, just isnt worth it. Ok so weekend here i come, im determined to have a good time without him! Hope you all have a peacefull weekend and are feeling positive, we really deserve too.
xx
Anonymous August 24th, 2007, 7:18 pm
Me again, just thought i may do a sshameless plug also, i have my own music page at http://www.myspace.com/olisongs if your interested. Theres a song i sing there called more than you know and let it go….guess who about?? Just if your bored..
xx
SmileyCelia August 24th, 2007, 7:39 pm
I totally agree with this notion — > “Mr Unavailable’s behaviour, they act the way they do regardless of who you are.” I have dated two men and seen the pattern — the girls after me encounter the same ambivalence. The true sign of whether or not they are emotionally unavailable or just not into you is something I think, you might just know, deep down in your gut — your intuition. If you know this guy is open, loving, caring and wanting to find the right girl and you are just not it…then…sorry to say it, but he’s just not that into you. But if you know that this guy is guarded, ambivalent, emotionally shut down — those are issues he needs to work out and will be there throughout all of his experiences — single, dating or married — and you want to be very far away from that!
Anonymous August 24th, 2007, 8:48 pm
Hello Ladies,
Doesn’t look like any males post on here?! Well, I’ll walk into the fire if you’ll allow me… I’ve been reading all your posts [every sinle one of them] and finding bits and pieces of myself in them [in your EUM's, as you refer to them.."us"].
My girlfriend has recently, last night actually, told me that she feels I’m emotionally unavailable and, like one of you said, makes her feel unsure of how I feel about her and such. There are a multitude of contributing factor to the strain on our one yr relationship [we've known each other for 7yrs]. We started out as really good friends… and things just evolved from there. We broke things off because we were basically just too young to deal with such a serious relationship - we’re both of the mindset that you’re either in it for the long-haul or not in it at all - and were not in contact for about 4years, then reconnected. Our family’s are of different religions and her family will not have her if she marries me. My family has welcomed her with open arms [both extended and immediate]. She feels that if we go through with this - marriage - I could eventually end up leaving her with nothing.. no family, nothing. She feels she’s getting scorched and I will walk away unscathed. I guess she doesn’t see that in my minds eye I will be losing her and that is something would destroy me, which makes her thinking that I would walk away unscathed just baffling to me.
I guess I’m here because I don’t understand what emotional unavailability is. I feel that I’ve been there for her every step of the way, constantly letting her know that she is the only woman I want, that I’m done looking, that I was done looking when I met her. She’s the only person I’m comfortable enough with to talk about the death of my father with and how it’s still something I haven’t completely dealt with, which I feel is emotionally available - in my mind. I do believe I show concern for her, I fly out to where she lives [we live about 5hrs apart] to meet her when she flies in from a trip to drive her back to our hometown so that she can see her father for a day.. hang out with my family, with me… then I drive her back the next day, and fly back in the morning myself. I feel as if though I always make a concerted effort to make sure she’s happy and safe and assured that I will do whatever it takes to ensure that we can spend even 2hrs together. I’ve driven to her home to simply have supper on occasion without her knowing [she feels it's impractical for me to drive 10hrs to have supper with her], and she loves that I do things like that, but seems to ignore the fact that I do have the rest of my life on a backburner for her - and I’m more than happy to keep it that way.
We are very intimate, we both had this idea in our minds that we would both be waiting until we were married [to each other or not] before we had sex. But we’ve essentially crossed that line with one another. It was and is a very big step for her, but I dont think she realises that it has been for me too. Even though I try to tell her that it is… that I wouldn’t be standing here, asking her, telling her, that even though her family doesn’t support us, I will always be by her side, as will my family. I would not put her through this horrible choice she has to make if I were not certain of my feelings for her. But she constant tells me, “But everyone says that, and then shit happens…people fall out of love…”
Is it really me who is emotionally unavailable? Or is it her? I really can’t figure it out. I know I have walls, I know I don’t seem to value friendships very much, people always seem to want to do things with me, but I’m not typically too interested in joining them. I always find that I would rather spend the night talking with her on the phone, or working on a project, or doing something solo, or with my family.
Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated. I told her last night that I’m done, that I’m only doing “this” [marriage, love, devoted] once, and that she’s it. She did not reply. I’m extremely frustrated and confused and I don’t feel like I can really say to her, “I think you’re the one who’s emotionally unavailable and you’re projecting that unto me..” - seems childish and combative.
My Regards.
J August 24th, 2007, 11:01 pm
Hello Anonymous (male)
Welcome and thank you for sharing with us.
I’m sorry you are going through such a difficult time right now and I’m sorry about the passing of your father.
Just digesting what you have written.
When you asked how to define an EUM or EUF (female)
My first feeling is that.. I would describe it as someone who is not prepared to “emotionally invest” in their partner.
I know everyone’s situation is unique and I’m not one to lump everyone into the same catagory.. No matter what you do “for” her.. driving, picking her up..taking her to visit you family.. nice things..
It’s about being able and intentionally through actions, “emotionally investing” in the other person.
Many of the scenario’s and examples you shared really did sound like you are doing that.
Whether we realize it or not we all PROJECT (pro-ject) our emotional issues at one time or another. It sounds like she maybe projecting her emotional stuff onto you. I remember screaming at my EUM stuff, and realizing later, I was in a not so healthy way.. really screaming at myself about myself and my issues..
I do it with my EUM and he does it with me.
If you are an EUM , part of her is also. We’ve come to that conclusion within ourselves here.
I haven’t bought it yet, but I really want to pick up the book
THE 5 LANGUAGES OF LOVE . My therapist recommended it.
If I had to describe the BIGGEST, LARGEST RED FLAG, I have noticed about my EUM that other woman (so far) have expressed about an EUM,
it’s AMBIVELANCE. not in a POSITIVE/NEGATIVE way.. but in a FLAT.. don’t really feel anything way.
For a majority of my relationship with my EUM. Who I do love.. that’s why this is so hard.
I’ve felt that
it didn’t matter if I - made canned spaghetti or a 5 course meal - no difference in his reaction
it feels like he’s “just as fine” not being with me, than he is being with me.
When he’s with me.. he seems fine but I’m convinced he could be watching TV by himself at his place alone and he would be just as fine.
He has this same “non reaction” to his friends and family and work mates.
That isn’t to say that he doesn’t “do” things. Like take his parents to doctors appointments, or his mom grocery shopping.
And if you ASK him, he’ll pretty much do ANYTHING that you ask him to do. But you have to ask..There is no “natural, passionate” INITIATIVE, when it comes to others around him..or well… ME for that matter.
I’ve been with him a year and I still don’t know what in life and love gets this man excited. I’m not talking sexual, I’m talking emotionally..
It’s like a gas stove. the pilot light is on..but the flame size and intensity NEVER changes.
He won’t call me for days (2.5) even to say hi..
We’ve been dating /intimate and in one another’s life for over a YEAR?
Am I the only one that finds this extremely odd?
He seems fine with it..
He knows it TEARS ME APART.. but still doesn’t seemed fazed.
If “I” don’t call.. (which is new now because I need to stop how it makes me feel to feed my anxiety and call him.)
After 2.5 days.. he’ll text me or call me.. and do the Remember me? thing..
Sir, you are right.. you can’t say that to her.. but you can print of the article that says..
If you think I’m an EUM.. then read here.. it says if you are dating an EUM, then part of you is as well.
Or you can print off (on here somewhere or google it) the “signs” he’s emotionally unavailable..
Bless you for taking the time to “look within”.
Anonymous (singer) *smile*..
I’ll check out your site soon..
I agree with you.. YOU deserve an awesome weekend.
We’ll do it together.. NO TEXTING, POP BY’S, CALLING OR EMAILING… our EUM’s. I don’t care if it’s 10 minutes or 25 days.. (now that would be a clear sign LOL)…
We will not CHANGE our plans to ACCOMODATE if they don’t give us the respect and consideration we deserve.
(shakes on it!)
Have a GREAT weekend !
((peace))
Anonymous August 24th, 2007, 11:51 pm
Thanks for the feedback J. (Anon-male here).
I guess that’s what makes me a so-called EUM. I can’t identify what invisting emotionally would entail. However, I have to say that I can’t relate with your significant other. The lady in my life left to visit my family oversease [without me] because she loves the country and gets along famously with my extended family - even stayed at their various houses. She didn’t tell me she was leaving and when I found out she was there without me, I felt as though someone had tied a rope to me, attached it to a plane, and ripped out some fundamental part of me. We texted everyday, she got sick while she was staying with my aunt… I didn’t want her getting up walking through the house to look for a phone to talk so I asked my aunt to have a phone line put in her room so that I could call her at night or she could call me throughout the day. She appreciated that and was happy about the fact I would [and moreso my family would] go to such length to make sure she was comfortable and had access to me and vice versa. But even so… she forgets these instances when things get very serious between us and the stakes get white hot. In short, I can’t stand being away from her, I can’t sleep well unless we talk - this is mutual it seems.
The whole situation just doesn’t make sense to me. I feel as though I’m putting all of me, but she feels like she’s getting “crumbs” as many of you have indicated. The last thing I want to do is give her crumbs, but I don’t know what else I can do to make her see that I feel like I’m giving her whole loaves.
I guess we’re all in the “same” situation… and if any of us had a concrete answer/solution, I supposed we wouldn’t be ranting on this wall.
Again, thank you.
Lisa August 29th, 2007, 9:24 am
I was rolling on the floor reading all these stories. Especially the one the “We’re not traveling together”. Sometimes things are so screwed up that it becomes humourous. This all so painful and I can relate because I am so confuse with my EUM that I’m dating at the moment. I’ve been so frustrated with him and now realizing that I might be emotionally unavailable myself. I am not sure it’s him or it’s me because I am so messed up inside that I don’t know if his behaviour is acceptable.
I broke up with him 2 months ago because he says he was not ready to be in a serious relationship after 4 months of dating. He eventually call me back a month later and told me he wants to give it a try. Our first “got back together” date was good and he calls me a few days later. Then *poof* he’s missing. I don’t hear from him for a couple of days where I left him a message and he never called back. I text him the next night and he text back saying he is going through a “tough family time” right now and promise me to call me back. 2 1/2 weeks later he called and gives me the lowdown where he flew black home (midwest) to see his sister who got ill. I was not his gf so i all i can do is listen. I didn’t ask to him to go out because I wanted to give him space and let him call me when he is ready. 3 days later i get a text asking me if i am busy tomorrow so we can hang out. i was so disappointed. i want him to call me and make plans and want him to say he wants to see me. does he think i have all the free time in the world and drop everything to hang out with him the next day? i text him back to make plans for the weekend to catch a flick and that i wll call him in a couple of days. i gave him the exact day that i will call. guess what? i called , and he didn’t pick up. he hasn’t seen me for like 3 weeks and he won’t even bother to pick up the phone to answer my call. shouldn’t he be excited to hear from me? wtf?? so i left a voicemail to call me back or text me to let me know if wht day he is available . he TEXT back to say he was passed out and that day was ok with him. WTF???!! then has the nerve to tell me towards the end of the week that he schedule physical therapy in the afternoon and if that’s ok with me? WTF?? Hell , do i feel important or what?? I wanted to yell the crap out of him but I didn’t want to be a drama queen and just enjoy wht we have. Because of his “therapy” we spent a total of 21/2 hours and that was from the freakn movie!!!! Ugghh!!
After that, I didn’t hear from him for a week, and so i text him and he text backsaying he was out of town with his buddy. WTf?? i am glad he is out with his friends but dude, hello where is the damn connection with us? then. he text me in the middle of the week saying his sister and brother is in town . so i text back with all these attacking questions asking if he will be busy the whole weekend and perhaps the next weekend? i was so irritated when he called he says “what was that all about?” man i swear, i think i am going to strangle him over the phone.
I recently had a talk with him telling him i was frustrated and there is no “we” time. he simply puts “we both” need to make an effort. he says he enjoys talking to me. whoopiee! so much emotions i almost cried! good grief charlie brown! he says he is free next weekend and that i should set something up. WTF?? Where is his emotions? where is “hey, i am sorry we haven’t spend time together.” OMG I’m losing my frickin mind. He tells me he doesn’t have his phone with him at all times when i brought up that he doesn’t pick up his phone. whatever dude. i just rolled my eyes. So we will see what happens when i call to confirm this weekend (holiday weekend). I can bet my life on it that he won’t pick up his phone though he eventually calls me back. Then my second bet will be that he will say hey i am busy this day but lets do this day, is it ok with you? Arrggh,just thinking about it makes me want to kick him and end it. I text him a day ago to tell him to have a good day. all he text back was “u too”. where is the “i miss you” or “looking forward to this weekend” or “hey thinking about you too” . *sigh sniff sniff.
is it him or me? anyone? any feedback will be nice. i am on the edge of ending this soon to give myself some sanity and i am making progess to see a therapist. i know i have unresolved abandonment/traumatic childhood issues combined with emotionally unavailable father and needy mother. I really like my EUM and want to make it work and trying to stay positive but deep down i’m feeling so hopeless. *sniff sniff.
Anonymous August 29th, 2007, 11:16 am
Hey Lisa.I say get out quick before you waste any more of your time and believe me that is what you will do.Look into co-dependancy, it will give you a good insight into yourself and you might realize why your accepting unacceptable behaviour. If you fel hopeless now imagine what your going to feel a year or two down the line, you sink into despair and its so much harder to get out. I wish i had realized alot sooner what was going on and i could have saved myself alot of pain and misery. I’ve realized my relationship is a co-dependant one, im a giver and he is a taker, he fullfills my dysfunctional needs and me his. Now that i have realized this i am looking at the 12 step programme, it helps. But i agree with what other people have said on here, that you can see this as an opportunity to work your own self out and realize that it is you who is attracting unhealthy relationship situations due to no fault of your own, its the inner child in you who got stuck somwhere emotionally. But i say get out!!! Nothing changes, save yourslf from total frustration, hell and torture
Run run run!!
Good luck
Ann August 29th, 2007, 2:08 pm
Hih Lisa
I agree with “O” get out now. This guy is really taking the piss. Could he be messing around with someone else too?
If you have abandonment issues then you will find this relationship really attractive because at a subconscious level you will be seeking to resolve the relationship you had with your father via your current guy. Work on your issues and you will realise that he won’t change and by then you will have the strength to dump him.
Hi J
Thanks for the book tips - my next purchases loom…. I had my EUM visit me in my new home last weekend. He wanted to come down to help me put up shelves etc, but when he got here he had low energy and just wanted to have a holiday with me running around making him cups of tea and sight seeing. I packed him off on the train on Monday and it felt really weird that he was leaving, like part of me was being ripped out. I had an hour of feeling lonely, empty and sad, but fortunately, my new home has a very nuturing feeling and I got stuck into unpacking more boxes and channel flicking with my new digital telly, ate chocolate and a nice cup of tea! (A very British habit) After about 2hrs, I felt much better and relieved to have my space back again. I was surprised at just how fast I felt better and took this as a little sign that I am making little steps towards recovery. I didn’t like the wrenching experience I felt bI thik that I will limit them Every British I know, but you know, I felt at peace and I had my space back. He called me at every stage of his tortuous journey home but by that time, I was feeling back to normal and well able to cope with the calls. I also I think that it is starting to sink into him that I am not going to be as big a part of his life and that I am building a new one here without him. Also interestingly after no sex for months and months, he was very keen at the weekend. He said that he thinks he has found out why he didn’t want to do it - he doesn’t like oral. This was a new one to me since it was him that had said he did when we first got together. I asked him why it had taken him so long to say something about this, and he said that he has trouble talking about things. However, I agree with Anonymous that long term, no contact is probably the best way to recover. I have to somehow ween myself off his calls of 2 -3 times a day. maybe calling and a weekend now and again is all that he needs.
I will keep you posted on developments and thanks for the reference to the book on The EUM - A blue print etc - one I must buy.
I have also done a lot of emotional freedom technique to release the junk around my own abandonment issues with my EU father. Details of this technique can be found on http://www.emofree.com Gary Craig has an excellent website and downloads on the technique are free.
Love and support to you all
Ann
Lisa August 30th, 2007, 8:21 am
Thanks for the feedback Anonymous and Ann. I am glad I am not alone out there. All these feelings I have about my EUM stem from feelings of insecurities. I may be sabotaging the relationship with all my fears. And so I may not know him well enough to know what he feels or what his issues are and I cannot categorize him. All I know is that he has opened up 40% of himself to me. He was so closed off from me before. But it’s a slow progress. . All I can do now is just keep the communications open and have faith in the relationship. Our little talk got him to pick up his phone tonite when I called to make plans. Omg, hell just froze over! Of course he has friday open for me out of the 4 day weekend. Aaargh!! Wow. I have trust issues always feeling he is hiding something but he seems like an honest person. Seem to say what he does and reliable about calling back. I am 100% sure he is not ready for any relationship. I just think he gives me the crumbs of his time yet don’t want to let go of me. I am only dating him and I am intending to keep it that way for awhile. I don’t see any long term potential with him. I’m sure he has his own pace but I have mine too. I am looking out for myself..for my well-being. It’s just a matter of time when I will check out. I had broken up with him before and I can do it again. Life was much simpler when I was single and didn’t have to feel for any man.
Anonymous August 30th, 2007, 10:00 am
Hi, im breaking free but its so hard the longer you leave it. It almost like an addict, i need that fix! Last night i was having regular compulsions to text him, i usually do on a wednesday.and we meet up, it was driving me crazy.I was dying to see him, i missed him, i wanted to see his face, but i was in a new job and meeting new people and i was craving the familiar. Im sooo glad i didnt, but i honestly felt like a junkie.Today i feel great, its only a small step but it wasnt easy. I still miss him but im taking care of myself firstly. Silence is strength i keet thinking. I am not going to pursue an unhealthy situation anymore because its just wrong! Im sitting back quietly and letting nature take its course instead of trying to make a situation work (giving him space,being patient, being understanding blah blah) I want to sit back quietly and peacefully, because peace is one thing i’ve been missing. Now the weekend is approaching, i have seen him every weekend for the last year and a half practically, pretty much down to me texting him.I am not giving him the security comfort blanket of me this weekend, to feel empty and unsettled by Monday. Its going to be hard but if i keep doing the same old thing i will keep getting more of the same old thing. Im finding the warrier woman in me.. And when i get the compulsions to text (which i will) Im not going to react but just suffer the withdrawal and ride the wave!
Wish me luck!
J September 1st, 2007, 5:14 pm
Hey everyone,
I’ve tried posting a few times in the last few days..and it keeps freezing..
this is a test
J September 1st, 2007, 5:58 pm
Sometimes I think when my energy really effects my computer..LOL..
I wrote 2 very long “posts” in the last few days, only to see them dissapear when I hit submit.
Could it be the universe “intercepting” my negative Karma, to make me think again?.. I think so..*smile*.
Sooooo..
Lets see, I can totally relate to the “junkie” comparison. That’s exactly how I felt this week.
I know I’m emotionally shutting down.. I can feel it…
This usually means.. that I “just stop trying”.. not a bad thing in this situation…
But because I am a woman.. (I can’t speak on behalf of all woman but I know this is true with me) When I emotionally shut down, when it comes to “physical intimacy” I also shut down.
It’s like, at the begginning of the relationship I feel a “hope”, of a growing emotional connection, this hope feeds my physical connection with him, and my physical intimate (sex) connection with him.. and all is ROCK’N..
Now after a year, now that my EUM has made it clear to me time and time again, both in his words, “This is all I can give”, his inactions (going for days without calling or texting, or emotionally investing in my life), I have hit the wall.
He’s trying SOOOOO hard to make things right by sexually trying to connect with me.
The other night, we together for the first time in 5 days. It was fine..
but after 35 minutes he still couldn’t “climax” inside me. He needed to take a break and well, finish by masturbating.
It crushed me. I know I shouldn’t take it so personally, but it felt like,
even after all that time apart, I don’t make him feel good enough through intercourse to help achieve climax
This didn’t happen early in our relationship, but has been resurfacing more and more in the last few months. He used to look at me and climax
I’m not a prude, masturbation rocks.. him, me.. it’s healthy and natural, of course..
but I couldn’t help but feel that night, that he really didn’t need me that way or I “didn’t do it for him that way anymore”.. absence, clearly isn’t making his “whateve” grow fonder.. LOL..
and well to be truthful.. his absence.. isn’t making my heart grow fonder.. the exact opposite. It’s not like he lives across the country, or in a different town. He lives 20 minutes away.
Last night, he gave it his all. Of course it wasn’t until we were in the bedroom in the sleep position where he decided to go right at it..
I for the first time in our relationship was numb. Wasn’t into it, but thought.. okay.. whatever.. maybe he’ll climax tonight.
45 minutes he went at it.. really trying to sexually connect with me..
like this would make me feel “better”?.
and 45 minutes later, he collapsed exhausted..
He says…” I wasso close”
He asked if it was okay. If it felt good…
I said.. yeah.
were you into it? He asks
I said, uh.. not really..but you seemed to be on a mission so I wanted to help you get there.
He says. why didn’t I say anything.. and he should have not “tried”..
I said, that’s not the point I was trying to make..
trying is great.. but emotionally I can’t just TURN that part on…
Because, it’s about everything “before” getting at it.. that gets me wanting to GET AT IT!!!!..
Anyway, we talked some more..
I mean I talked some more, he really doesn’t talk that much..
He said, I have to get out of this “negative” stuff, or it is going to really effect me, then him and a vicious circle will lead to a self fulfilling prophecy of us not working out.
I said, hELLO…news flash..
WE are already not working out!!!!
I said, I do not know how you continue to expect ALL OF ME and MY love AND my touch, and my wonderfulness, my backrubs, my kindess and emotional generosity, AND think it’s okay to just be happy with giving me a little.
I said I don’t know how you can’t “get” the fact that , to continue this way is causing me to emotionally shut down. which means, I physically shut down. I don’t want to do either.. but THANK GOD, I’ve been wired with that default switch, or I would turn into an emotionally void person.
I said, I am working on fixing myself. Therapy, reading, trying to love him just as he is, but most importantly..working on loving “myself” for who I am.
I told him I have no desire, or business trying to change him. I love him ..
but if he is going to “fix” what he says he needs to fix… (to feel grounded and find himself again, that passionate, strong, confident man that he is)..
I’m just curious..about how he is trying to do that.
I asked him if he is trying to “fix” or work on “his” issues.
he said. yes. I said how. He said. “it’s a process, it will work itself out”.
He said, I hear what you are saying. How this affecting you, I’m sorry, I do really love you.
he held me really tight all night..
I still feel a bit emotionally numb..when it comes to him.
I don’t know if that is good or bad at this point.
I know it means something, and that it will reveal itself..
He said he was taking Sunday off, so we could go golfing and have the day together. Then go to a planned dinner at my Dad’s. He’s like, well that will be a perfect compromise, so I can still do my “work”, and we’ll have time together..
I feel like a delegated meeting he has to attend..
When he said that.. I felt like this little girl who craved to spent time with her “busy” dad.. and he was always so busy..then if I needy..and complained enough..he’d make a “big” deal about spending a “day” with me, (sort of spending the day with me) and a lot of the times..he would end up cancelling or picking me up to spend time with his “second wife”… so he could golfing with his buddies. He’d come back with a present to “make” up for things..
My EUM doesn’t buy me presents..LOL.. I got a watch (beautiful watch) for my birthday this year.
I have sooo much more work to do on myself.
Those feelings of me as a little girl, desperate for love, attention and emotional connection with my dad, are SCREAMING the last week with my EUM.. Coincidence? I think not..*smile*..
Now how will I deal with this? I’ll keep you posted.
(((peace))))
J September 5th, 2007, 10:51 pm
how is everyone?
Anonymous September 6th, 2007, 10:22 am
Hey,thanks for asking! im feeling pretty down today im afraid. I suppose thats why im here. The last few weekends i’ve had have been great, ive spent from fri till sun/mon with him, it was really intense. We talked for hours him saying things like “you talk for a minute about me then i will you” He said i was the he most kind, beautiful person..bladdy blah. I was in heaven, loving very minute, complete happieness, we played badminton, went for a picnic, art galleries, pub….it was my dream weekend, apart from 2 things, 1) no sex!! 2) over the weekend he told me he’d kissed another women….WHAT??? I know her, she’s with somone. couldn’t even ask him the details, when? recently? where?, cause i knew the answer would mess with my head big time, it would kill me, but obviously at some point the defensiveness in me came out and i threw into the conversation that i’d been asked out by someone, his reaction was “no don’t tell me, i dont want to know”, oh so he can tell me something that has been doing my bloody head in all week but not me him??,keep visualizing them…..aaaaargh! Keep trying not to…aaaargh! Sure you can imagine the agony.Anyway when i left on mon morn i left a nice note but mentioned that the no sex thing was hard for me but i’ll deal with it, txted him yest..no reply (not unusual) Now, i feel ill, embarassed.I feel like i’m in the most messed up situation ever. Feel like he is poison in my viens, it consumes me soooo much, but its him, he is bloody wierd! I know he has commitiment and sex issues but what about me? I do need sex, i do need stability, now once again if i want him to come and talk to me about this i need to withdraw till he is ready again,always waiting….but i’m going to tell him all this next time we get together, im going to tell him what I want and if this relationship is never going to be sexual again i need out! Constant turmoil.Fed up, annoyed with me, annoyed with him. I WANT TO BE FREE FROM THIS!!!!!!I its ridiculous.
Well that was good for me to rant, hope it wasnt to boring for anyone else.
How you??
Ann September 6th, 2007, 11:20 am
Hi J & O
I am up with my guy this weekend from my haven in 180 miles away and it is the first time I have been here for 3 weeks. It felt really strange being in his house as a feel that I have moved on in my head big time. But and yes there is a but, we have talked about the relationship too and he has admitted that he enjoys his space in the house and has not pinned for me when I was away. He said he missed me and missed coming home to me in the evenings. But you know, I think that he needs very little from me and as J has mentioned before with her guy, is not able to give me what I need. I was thinking last night whether what he does offer ie limited sex and intimacy, good DIY skills and company are enough for me at the moment. I kind of know that they aren’t but I agree that once you fall back into the thing full time, it is totally addictive. His kind of loving has felt like poision too - it really messed up my head and heart too. I think that one of the things that has kept me hooked in to the relationship is that I can’t bear the thought of him with anyone else because I worry that he will give more to someone else. In reality, I know that that is probably unlikely, leopards and their spots etc but it is still a horrid thought. I can totally understand your feelings O about your guy kissing another woman - that must be hell….. At the moment, I feel quite stable in the relationship because I have been working on me and I am building a new life elsewhere, however, I still do not trust myself totally with it beause I know of its addictive quality. My work at the moment keeps me having to commute back to the city, but I am working on applying for jobs locally so that I will limit my time here and with him. In that way I can give myself a chance to ween myself off the nectar! Hope you all have a peaceful weekend.
Love
Ann
x
Anonymous September 6th, 2007, 5:01 pm
Hey thats great Ann, you sound very grounded, i agree the thought of them with anyone else is just too awful.
im going to be really really sad now as i have a pathetic silly text question to ask you guys..(yes i feel like im 15!)
ok so after i left my note saying the no sex thing was bothering me but i’ll deal with it, he didnt reply to a casual txt i sent yest, so feeling rejected and trying to protect myself, i ended up texting him late last night,i said
Hey. Iim hoping your not annoyed with me for writing that note. Please dont be, im just a confused person right now, i’ll leave you alone,sorry, hope we are still friends.
He replied,
Cool!Dont worry xok
Now im sorry for being theeee most ridiculous woman text analyser, but does that ‘ok’ mean ‘ok yes leave me alone???’ Or is it just a casual everythings cool text? See how pathetic i am but i want to know what to think, is he saying right thats it then?
Any thoughts??(and apologies again, im sure you have far better things to think about, but you know how important these things are when your in love pain)
thanks
Ann September 6th, 2007, 10:19 pm
Hi O
I think that you are letting him off the hook. First you tell him you are annoyed at the way he is treating you over no sex and then you pull all that back by apologising. You deserve an answer and he is behaving unreasonably. He is also very controlling. You are teaching him that it is ok to treat you how he does because he now knows that you will get annoyed first and then forgive him. So he doesn’t really have to make any effort - everything he does you let him off with eventually. Be careful as he will lose respect for you if you keep challenging him and then back down. He may be playing a game that started along time ago in his youth. He could have been the victim of a controlling parent who was a bit of a bully. Now in his adult life, he gets to be the controlling parent and sadly you are person available to control and treat badly. Please please don’t hang around for more of this. He may be very unaware of this dynamic. What was his earlier life like?
I also know why you are confused. You know that he is being unreasonable but because you really want him, you are prepared to overlook his behaviour. So internally you are in conflict because part of you wants to get out and another part wants to stay in the hope that he will change. Unless he deals with his stuff, then leopards and spots and all that. Also he knows just how to keep you interested by throwing you a little crumb now and again. All I can say is try and build up other interests, get your girlfriends to drag you out and do something, anything but text him.
Re his text, I read it as a casual things are ok text. But bearing in mind the reason you wrote the note, it was hardly the most reassuring text in the world. I think though that you will wait a very long time to get him to provide the reassurance you need. He sounds incapable of providing it.
Hope this ramble helps
Ann
x
JC September 9th, 2007, 6:57 am
hello all, first time here, but i’ve read your postings…interested in what became of Anon-males tale.
Who is EU, you or her?
How have things worked out for you. or have they not worked out.
Ann September 10th, 2007, 9:55 am
Hi JC
EU stands for emotionally unavailable. Yes I would like to know about the male contributor too. Are you out there still?
Anonymous September 10th, 2007, 8:37 pm
Hi,just here briefly to thank you Ann for your advice, appreciate it alot!!!
Lisa September 18th, 2007, 5:39 am
After our date, I didn’t hear from EUM for 13 days.!!! 13 days!!! Hello?!! Wht the bloody hell is wrong with this guy?!! So I text him and ask if he is ok and thought he was going to call me. Waited all day for his response ..nothing..so I called. He picked up the phone and told me he had a freaked out day where he ws being stalked by some crazed woman. Whatever. Anyhow, emotionless he didn’t asked how i am. I asked if he had an email address .And of course , he doesn’t . Freak! Who the heck doesn’t have an email address in this century? !I had recalled he said his sister emailed him that she was coming in to town couple of weeks ago. I swear I’m going to kill this douchebag. Of course we ended up talking about us because I was soooo frustrated. He finally says he was going to tell me that he couldn’t do this. He was the one that came back to me and wanted to give it a “try”. Try my ass!! Yea I am sure he made some effort but not enough to sustain a relationship. His excuse was he has alot of things going on his life. Whatever. He doesn’t do anything besides going to work 9-5. He doesn’t play any sports or have any hobbies. He doesn’t have any kids or someone to care for. He doesn’t have a second job or going to school. He’s not a business man where his time is consumed by work. I have no idea what he does with his time. Serious. I think he maybe depressed and stays home with his brother and watches TV. I had ruled other girls out cuz of his financial situation. If he can barely afford taking me out don’t think he can handle others. So what does “alot going on his life” mean? I didn’t ask. I didn’t care. Sounds like a way to cop out. He says he’s going back to school to change his career. I asked “so you registered already?” he says “no,not yet going to “. Douche. So he explains that 2 people need to be on the same page in goals in life and he is not there yet. Sure..uh-huh. I’m sure that’s true. and I am sure he is not financially secure. Whatever his situation is..the bottom line is that he treats me like second best. He gives me crumbs of his time. Leaves me hanging with no regards for my feelings. So that’s that. I am a bit hurt but not really emotionally wounded cuz deep down inside i knew there was no future with this guy that place me as no importance in his life and with no $$ to take me out to a decent dinner. Yea these 8 on and off months of dating..no dinner. I deserve more!!!! He welcomes my calls cuz he says he likes talking to me. Why would I call him for? Maybe to yell at his loser ass!!! I’m so done! What a waste of my time! Started my therapy session last week. Proud of myself on taking a step for myself towards emotional healing. Glad I have this place to vent!
tulipa September 19th, 2007, 10:33 am
OH I’m just waking up to the fact I have STUPID written across my head well thats how I feel….
I thought it would it cool to date a EMU ….. I know I know…. He was even nice enough to let me know at the beginning that he wasn’t ready for a relationship because he was “finding” himself ….. So I jump into this relationship thinking well I don’t want marriage nor anything to serious, but nor do I want NOTHING….. we have been meeting up for 7 months now though you could probably squash that time down to 4 months in a real realtionship the amount of space this guy needs… By nothing I mean absoutly no effort goes into remembering anything about me I think I can almost dictate our conversations… so whats your brother’s name?? I mean come on 7 months and 55million times asking and you still don’t know ???
I have no idea what he thinks or feels about me at all !!!!!!!! At first I liked this but I’m bored with it now ……I think its like whats said above ACTIONS speak louder than words and his actions are I’ll call you I’ll arrange everything and you leave and the date is over when I dictate it to you ……haha to spend longer than a night and some of the morning with him and thats it then he has his space sometimes for three weeks with maybe a phone call in between time ………..
So I’m getting out not because he isn’t kind or considerate when we are together but because I want just a little bit more……. I realise from reading all the above posts and because of my own issues I am Miss Commitment Phobe ……. but another thing I realise is my life won’t be any different I just wont have a date here and there and I can live with out that……… so heres to me working on my own issues …..
I must say though I have learnt some lessons from a previous relationship I was in and I haven’t tried to fix this nor have I tried to make him feel any differently about me …..I feel kinda of proud about that bit but still feel as though STUPID is tattoed across my forehead …….
tulipa September 20th, 2007, 10:42 am
Okay now my stupid sign has starting flashing in neon.. I was all prepared to break it off I was in a dilemma because I didn’t know whether to call him or not… then before I could call him he rang me…. and left a message that pretty much said hey I’m back from my trip he got back Monday today is Thursday… and also in his message he said his plans for Saturday night had fallen through and he could see me.. a lovely second door prize lol or he could fit me in on Tuesday … I chose Tuesday he is coming to mine …. So between now and then hopefully I will re read all the above and actually have the guts to say see ya ….. I have set the bar low for this guy … FLASHING NEON SIGN
stcha September 23rd, 2007, 2:26 am
Ann & J, whatever you both described, described almost everything in my 5 months long distance.
He never expects anything from me. He doesn’t expect me to spend any money on gifts/plane tickets/vacations together/call him regularly/hug him/kiss him often. He never says he misses me or i love you anymore (ever since the first time he met me about 3 months back). All the energy, looking forward to seeing him is tiring. My excitement of seeing him has gone from a 100 to a 10. I’m so dying to see him every other months but as the days count down, apart from “i’ll pick you up from the airport”, no more “i can’t wait to see you”. [Wiping my tears now] No more hello kisses, no more cuddling, doesn’t hold my hand no more. I’m a guest with the name “Girlfriend”.
Whatever happened to the promises & love yous that I got in the first 2 months? This is a joyride. Up & Down, Up & Down.
His dog gets more affections than me, he hugs his dog, talks baby-ish to his dog, sleeps with his dog, spends more time with his dog alone than with me, even when I’m at his house.
We don’t match up emotionally. Sure some people may say, he’s faithful, simple, good guy, good character but why do I have to be the one to lower my expectations? Why can’t he be what he was in the first two months?
I’m so afraid to call off this relationship. That’s right, I’m afraid I’ll never find anyone so nice. I’ve given up a good guy in the past, maybe this time round I’ll be karma.. he’ll boot me off first. I don’t have a single doubt in my mind that if I tell him today to call this off, he’ll agree. And this is what hurts me most, that he won’t ask me to stay.
Mona September 24th, 2007, 12:00 am
Hey everyone. Sorry this is a bit long. I’ve been reading all the comments on here, and just about everything fits the guy I’ve been seeing. We’ve known each other for 2 years but started “seeing” each other since December. We are not a couple, more like FWBs. At first, everything was great. He would contact me every other day. One night, he asked me out, and we went Christmas shopping for video games for each other. I know he had a good time because our date lasted from 8pm-3am. The next night, he invited me over to his house to watch a movie. Once again the date ended around 3am. He told me he had a good time and hopes to have many more. I haven’t been asked out since, and it’s now September. We still texted every week and sometimes met up for sex, but we never went out. Someone said that EUMs mostly text. I am battling social anxiety disorder, so I am much more comfortable texting than talking. One time, I texted him & didn’t hear from him for about 2 weeks. When I did hear from him, I told him I thought he didn’t want to talk to me anymore. He said he “needed time to reflect.” I found out he went out with a girl from his past. I told him that although it wasn’t a relationship, I couldn’t see him if he was sleeping with other people. He said, “Well, you are your own person & free to do what you want.” He said that with no emotion in his voice. I was hurt because I thought he would’ve at least put up a fight to keep seeing me. I ended up texting him the next day and changed my mind about not seeing him, which was probably stupid. We talked/met up for another 3 weeks. One night, I asked him if he would like to do anything that upcoming weekend. He said, “Sure. Why not?” Then he kissed me on the cheek and hurried out my front door. The next day, he texted me “I think it’s best that we just be friends.” I said “Fine” and didn’t hear from him for exactly 1 month, and then we’d text each other every week again. In May, he told me he was thinking about getting a girlfriend if I was interested. I was very much interested, but because I was scared of getting into another relationship, I kinda turned him down. Three weeks later, he said he was gonna wait until his 26th birthday in June 2008 to get a GF. Since May, we have texted regularly. A mutual friend of ours went against my wishes & told him that I had feelings for him. His reaction was “Why would you, knowing I’m with other girls?” He has a point, but you can’t help who you like. Whenever girls show interest in taking things to another level, he cuts them loose. The fact that he hasn’t done that to me makes me think that could be a good sign, or maybe not. His own male friends think that he likes me in that way but he just won’t admit to it. We have quite a bit in common, I am comfortable around him, he’s one of the only people that I can verbally chat with without feeling nervous. He’s an overall cool guy. We would even discuss some of his past girls, and he would even ask me my opinion on why things didn’t work out. He does show some affection (hugging, cuddling, French kissing), we give each other advice. I am sexually inexperienced, and he’s been patient & he’s actually taken the time to “teach me things”, which I guess is a good thing. But like the other posts on here, I give him oral but he won’t do me. He said he had a bad experience with a past girl, so he’s turned off from it. I know I am EU myself. My mother was emotionally abusive towards me, so it’s very hard to express my feelings (except anger) to anyone because I feel like I would be bothering people. So I always keep things bottled up, as you can tell by this very long post
I’m not close to a lot of people, and I don’t consider anyone a “best friend” at the moment. I’ve only had 1 relationship, and I’m 24. I’ve told people that I would like to try a relationship with my guy friend, but not with anyone else. But even with him, I am scared to get too close for fear that things won’t work out. It’s pretty messed up that I can ask him for sex, but I’m too scared to ask him to casually hang out. I can’t tell if he likes me as a potential GF or if he talks to me like he’s doing me a favor. I asked him why is he always so nonchalant. He said that’s his personality, but I think there’s more to it than that. I feel like I’m gonna go crazy at times.
I’m glad I found this page and was able to read others’ experiences and share my own. All for now. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
-Mona
Jen September 24th, 2007, 7:37 pm
I think I wrote sometime ago!! I keep letting myself get hurt and I am so fed up with it!! Why do us women let it happen?
Here goes I had been speaking to a man who is 22 online for sometime he suggested meeting up this took more than 6months to actually meet him!! In person he is one of the shyest men I have come across! I think he has learning problems of somesort I don t actually believe he is being nasty on purpose!!! Moving foward a bit! He asked me out and I said yes slowly I’ve begun to really fall for this man!! The problem is alot of times we’ve arranged to meet up and he’s not turned up!!! Also not even bothered to let me know!!! He also has a very protective mother!!! It seems sometimes it’s her fault! We finally worked up to a real kiss!!! I have never waiting for someone for so long in my life!! I really thought this was going to go somewhere!! The past 2 weekends he’s has promised to meet me and has now vanished again!! Before this he was saying how much he likes me etc etc!!He hasnt text for a month saying hes got no credit!!! I can’t believe its happened again!!! I can’t stop thinking about him!! I cry myself to sleep!! Why do men do this to us?? He either doesnt realise what he is doing hurts for whatever reason! Or he is a complete butt-head! !! He’s such a gentle person in the flesh though!! I’ve going to be 27 soon and feel this past year has been taken over so much my this man!!!/boy! He just wont leave my head!!! I try so hard not to message him but when I see he’s online and not speaking to me it dtives me nuts!!! Before he vanished I tired to ask him about himself more he said he does things in his own time!! and he’s a quiet person!! All he kept saying is we’ll be together “Soon” Arrghhh when is Soon? When I collect my pension!! I’ve told him if he doesnt like me to tell me to bog off!! He doesnt!!! Why? Maybe if he did I could find closure and try and move on!! Instead I feel I’m stuck in limbo!!!
Jennifer October 7th, 2007, 3:32 pm
I have spent hours reading all of your comments. I feel so bad for all of you and me included! I am probably the oldest person on this site (41years) old and I should have know better. I started dating a man about six months ago and at first he pursued me heavily. I refused to go out with him before because I had this “gut” feeling that there was “something” not right about him. However, he was persistent and charming and said all the right things. He remembered every time he had seen me for the previous two years before we started dating. He made me feel very special. So, I finally did begin dating him and things were very romantic and exciting. It wasn’t long until he had given me a key to his house and said you’re welcome here anytime. Now, for the EUM part…as soon as I told him I loved him, he pulled away and began to make every excuse in the book as to why he couldn’t see me. I could go through them all, but you have heard them all, anyway. At one point we were to meet on a Wednesday afternoon after work for a drink.
When I called him he said he had to have tire fixed. We didn’t rise our voices, but I quietly informed him that this would be the only time I was available and he was aware of my schedule. He promptly hung up on me. He couldn’t stand the pressure of me placing any expectations on him. He called back a few hours later and I was out with a girlfriend since he stood me up. Apparently he didn’t like that, but he never apologized for hanging up on me. I have refused to call him or e-mail him with the exception of one text I sent him that said “whether we date or not - I Love You.” He called back the next day and in a basically said I needed to do whatever I felt I needed to. He said he enjoyed being home alone and not having any expectations placed on him. Well, ladies, I expect more than that from the man I am dating. he doesn’t deserve me and I hope he rots alone. I am convinced that the only way to deal with an EUM is NO CONTACT! I knew when I quit putting the effort into it, he wouldn’t bother either, so why would any rational human being continue when nothing is offered back in return! As women we must set our standards high and not let these me abouse us emotionally. I once read, which is worse, being alone or wishing you were? If I can do it at my advanced age, so can you! NO CONTACT and only accept the treatment you think you deserve and the treatment you give….I wish all of you the best. I’m glad to have ended the agony and now at least I know I will recover from this pain eventually, instead of facing it daily…YOU CAN DO IT!
tulipa October 9th, 2007, 2:09 am
How can so many men be so emtionally unavailable ????? They don’t differ much from each other really do they ???
And having said that we women who date them probably have a lot in common too… Deep down surely we must know that they won’t change and there isn’t a thing we can do that can change them….
I am still amazed at myself that I continue on in a realtionship where it is going nowhere the message to all of us is that we surely deserve more than what these men have to offer us… Actually to be more truthful its probably not even classified as a realtionship because he isn’t ready for a relationship and is out there finding himself ….
I guess I’ll just have to see I don’t think it has much life left in it .. I am almost ready to quit and I am not fighting it ..
The reply above says it all if we make no effort then neither do they and that is the answer . we just need for it to register and move along ..
Jennifer October 9th, 2007, 2:46 am
Tulipa, I appreciate your comments and I know how much pain you must be in right now. I am certain that we women who date EUM’s and are stupid enough to fall in love with them despite all the reasons not to do have something in common - insanity. I have tried to figure this puzzle out myself and rationally I just can’t figure it out. However, I simply decided that I would start to behave more like a man and end the pain now, take control, and get out. You deserve a man who will treat you with respect. I know you have the strength to do it. Begin the healing process today and end it!
tulipa October 11th, 2007, 2:01 am
I have done a bit of investigating into this subject .. there are certainly a number of books written in regards to the emotionally unavailable man..
Some that looked worth reading to me were ‘How to break your addiction to a person’ by Howard Halpern
‘Don’t call that man A survival guide to letting go’ Rhonda Findling
‘The commitment cure: What to do when you fall for an ambivalent man’ Rhonda Findling
Also in my investigation into this matter I came across a website which will tell you that you can make an emotionally unavailable man fall in love with you and the message he is giving you that hes not ready for a relationship etc. is not what hes really saying ….. of course you had to pay money to find out how !!!!!!! well I couldn’t think of anything worse to waste my money on because its a lie !!!!
How do I know because I have and Im sure others have done every single humanly possible to try and make these men be what we want them to be and all to no avail ….
I am coming to the conclusion that we can only change the message we are hearing to ourselves and that is we are worth so much more than someone’s half attention !!! Also we can never change another human being its impossible we can only change ourselves and work on ourselves to become people who are ready for a proper relationship Im sure it will require half the work a relationship requires to be with an emotionally unavailable man..
Thank you for your comments, Jennifer, heres to a much better dating life !!!!!!
tulipa October 20th, 2007, 2:53 am
ARGH !!!!!!!! Im suffering from the urge to contact ….. must go out and get busy ……… its been 12 days now and 4 days since he last contacted me via e mail and 25 days since I saw him last ..
He said he’d phone in a few days guess thats today… unless he has a very different definition than me of the word few…
Jennifer October 20th, 2007, 9:06 pm
Tulipa,
Don’t do it! It’s funny that you send this at this time. I just took my daughter to the mall and ran into my ex’s best friend - very painful and awkward! It made me have a great desire to talk to my ex, but I am not going to do it. The last thing my ex said to me was that I needed to do what I needed to do and then he said he’d call “in a few days. I knew that actually meant “I’m just not that into you, and I have no desire to talk with you.” That was about a month ago and I still haven’t heard from him, nor do expect or want to. He was a loser who happened to be slick enough to touch my heart. I don’t want to see him, hear his voice, or have anything to do with him. Don’t wait around for him to call. He just doesn’t really even mean it and just wants to keep you “on a string” just in case. Break away and fast. NO CONTACT - don’t break the rule. NO CONTACT! I know you can do it!
Jennifer
tulipa October 21st, 2007, 5:53 am
eeeeeeekkkkk I couldn’t not do it… I argued with myself but I sent a text …………… to which he did reply saying he would ‘try’ to contact me this morning …. and he did actually ring me ……. wow the conversation we had I still reeling from it …. I was so naive I can’t believe how stupidly so.. I have read a lot more of this forum and it was interesting to read about how some emotionally unavailable men have a harem of women well I found he does have a harem … but also in his e-mail he said he was dealing with a personal issue he then when he rang he told me what his personal issue was and wow I wa shocked it was all to do with an ex girl friend and not even his last girlfriend .. boy does she have him all manipulated and now he’s even agreed to pay for her therapy and hes meeting up with her on Monday !!!!!!!!!!
SO NOW I CAN DO NO CONTACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a wake up call…. so tomorrow is day one no contact I don’t need to know any more I will not join the harem ……. plus he said a few other things to me that im not ready to admit just yet …..
CONGRATULATIONS to you Jennifer I hope you keep going strong and know that going back is equal to putting your hand in the fire again the pain isn’t worth it ….. GO YOU
Jennifer October 22nd, 2007, 12:34 am
Tupila,
It sounds like this event was the catalyst you needed to make the move you already knew you needed to make. I just spoke with a friend of mine who is also disapointed by a relationship that she thought was great - at first - just like the rest of us. Who wants to be a member of the “fan club?” Today is the first day of the rest of your life! Here’s to day one and many, many more of NO CONTACT! Congratulations
Jennifer
Jen October 22nd, 2007, 5:59 pm
Well done to everyone who are doing their best not to contact their Eum’s!! I have lasted a week now!! He is trying the usual of being online and trying to make me talk to him first! I haven’t! even though I really want to talk to him!
My problem is the men in question isn’t doing it on purpose! I just don’t think he understands how adult relationships are meant to work! It’s all so sad because he is a lovely man but just not capable of offering me what I want! It hurts so much but I know I want and deserve more!!! I am glad this website is here because it makes us realise we aren’t alone in how we are feeling and it helps to know others are in the same situation! x
Jen October 22nd, 2007, 6:00 pm
typo! lol I meant Man! not men!! Christ I couldn’t cope with more than one!
lisa October 23rd, 2007, 8:22 am
Good for all of you not contacting your EUM’s! I am going on 2 months of no contact! Though I lock his old text messages on my phone just to look at it once in awhile. I know it sounds crazy. Think it’s part of me can’t let go. As long as he doesn’t know it. LOL I am in the the “anger” stage right now and will be in the “acceptance” stage eventually =). When that part hits, the “unlock” and “delete” will happen to his messages.
Word of advice- If a man says he is not ready for a relationship, BELIEVE him and move on! I did! But he came back and want to try but eventually went back to his old ways and made me go through emotional hell!
I am 34 years old..a commitment-phobe, emotionally unavailable, with abandonment issues. I am in therapy and hope to heal my inner child. And looking forward to meet the man who I will emotionally be available to and him to me.
tulipa October 23rd, 2007, 1:02 pm
Thou shalt NOT contact him via the phone
Thou shalt NOT contact him vai smoke signals
Thou shalt NOT contact him via instant chat
Thou shalt NOT contact him via carrier pigeon
Thou shalt NOT contact him via text messaging
Thou shalt NOT contact him via jungle drums
Thou shalt NOT contact him via e-mailing
Thou shalt NOT contact him via morse code
Thou shalt NOT contact him via any of his friends or friends
Thou shalt NOT contact him via the postman
Thou shalt NOT contact him via accidentally on purpose bumping into him ……
tulipa October 23rd, 2007, 1:02 pm
Thou shalt NOT contact him via the phone
Thou shalt NOT contact him vai smoke signals
Thou shalt NOT contact him via instant chat
Thou shalt NOT contact him via carrier pigeon
Thou shalt NOT contact him via text messaging
Thou shalt NOT contact him via jungle drums
Thou shalt NOT contact him via e-mailing
Thou shalt NOT contact him via morse code
Thou shalt NOT contact him via any of his friends or family
Thou shalt NOT contact him via the postman
Thou shalt NOT contact him via accidentally on purpose bumping into him ……
tulipa October 26th, 2007, 1:46 pm
gulp I don’t know why my above poat appears twice … slight cringe
lisa I can relate to you about keeping texts and re reading them … I sincerely hope that you find help from your therapist , I only just put together part of the puzzle myself as to why I keep attracting e.u.m.s its easy to know why now but its hard to stop its like I just have to win… but what do you win in the end the half attention of someone and someone who is clearly telling you that they are not into you don’t see anything long term etc. etc. I’m sure all of us have heard it all …… If I could work out a way to stop I would every resolve i make I break …
Still I hope each of you are doing well in your no contact with you e.u.m ….
Maybe I will report some good news soon…..
Jennifer October 26th, 2007, 1:56 pm
Tupila,
I am having a difficult morning this am. The good news is that I still have had no contact with my EUM. The bad news is that I think of him fondly and forget how little he had to offer me. I feel a tremendous sense of loss and loneliness, but it is still better than the torment of daily interaction with him. I know how difficult it is. Lisa, delete all the old e-mails and everything that reminds you of him. I KNOW how hard that is, but it is the first step in letting go. I have to go at the moment, but I hope to chat with both of you later.
Lisa October 27th, 2007, 5:50 am
Thanks Tulipa but this guy had put a real damper on my self esteem. There are days when I feel why that I am not worth his love. Why he isn’t emotionally available to me. Am I that terrible to bring out that side of him? And like Jennifer, I feel a sense of loss and loneliness. Sometimes I drift off in the middle of the day and think of him and quietly cry to myself. I still think of him and it has been 2 months. Though I have peace of mind that I no longer having to go through the emotional rollercoaster with him, I still have this sick feeling of wanting him.
tulipa October 28th, 2007, 10:49 am
I struggle with the same emotion why am I not good enough for him, where as we should turn that around and say he isn’t good enough for us cos we are worth so much more than their measly offerings…
In my rational moments I know he is offering me less than crumbs so why do I keep taking them ???? I’m not in love with him….. so duh to me ..
I am glad that your no contact with your e.u.m.s is going well … I think I should write out how this person has treated me and keep re reading it and use to finally say I’m through with this… then keep re reading it to make sure I stay away from contacting him…..
I guess the advice given on here to counter act the loneliness is to find hobbies and interests and keep on keeping busy ….
I don’t think they know how to be emotionally available to anyone, Lisa, no matter who they were going out with… even if it were a famous actress they seriously would be the same …..
My e.u.m who says I was never a girl friend etc. but I know with out any shadow of doubt that he has treated all those he has called a girl friend the same as me… I’m not discounting that we don’t have our own set of troubles and problems to work on I just think its them and their issues not us who cause them to be emotionally unavailable….. hope i make sense ..
Hope you are both okay … and I appreaciate your comments they are helpful to me ……
Lisa November 2nd, 2007, 7:26 am
Thank you Tulipa for your comments. I really need to hear that. I needed someone to tell me that it’s not all me.
tulipa November 7th, 2007, 10:09 am
Sigh I really don’t know why I keep bothering I know there is no point…..
Call me he says you call me ….. mostly I have left the calling for him ……so I do call and well he can’t even spare a lousy 5 mins not even an how are you ….. I’m busy says he … well guess what !!!!!! I am not calling any more whether you say for me to or not ….. interesting to see if he keeps his word and calls me back … time shall tell …bout time with all the information I have collected that I got decisive about all this and gave him the old elbow !!!
I do ask myself what do I gain from this and the answer is very little… yip I can do it.. I shall be back in a few days …and tell you what happens…
Lisa and Jennifer hope you are both still going well and recovering !! glad my comments helped you Lisa …It truly aint worth bothering going back ..
Jen November 7th, 2007, 12:04 pm
Heya everybody!!! Hope everyone is well!!!! Well I have finally severed the ties to my E.U.M !! He vanished for my birthday which in my head was the finally test and cut off date!!! His younger brother accused me of being a stalker!! (Since when has wanting to see a so called Bf called stalking?) Anyways I finally realised that I didn’t actually give a ****! I stopped contacting and even talking to him online…I even shocked myself and went on a date with a guy on halloween! Sw 4 is very good btw if you like blood and gore hehe!
And guess what…………My E.U.M contacted me as if nothing had happened!!!! So in conclusion if you really do like your E.U.M and feel they are worth you..Ignore them!!! But I feel for our own sanity we just have to move on! It’s hard!! In the future I am never going to waste 6 months of my life trying to date a E.U.M again!! They can run after me for a change!!! Stay stong girlies!..We are worth so much more than this!! xx
Ann November 7th, 2007, 12:32 pm
Hi Jen
That is great. I have not added anything to the site for a few weeks now, but I finally moved out from my EUM last weekend. You are right that by ignoring them they do start to make more of an effort, but you know what, I find that I have lost most of my feelings for him and like you said I don’t give a monkey’s. I am feeling quite sick in the pit of my stomach at the prospect of having contact with him and I know that I will have to do this as he has a few of my things still in his house. I do have a key and I can go and get them at some point and then hand the key back. But it is really strange to feel this way. I feel quite relieved to be out of the relationship, but again I agree with you - he still thinks he is in it despite endless effort to tell him that it wasn’t working for me. I do feel I have woken up from a spell, a dream, a fantasy and when I look around me, I see that there is a whole big world full of adventure awaiting me.
So good luck with your dating Jen andkeep us posted on your progress. Hearing stories about the road to recovery really helps.
Ann xx
erica November 20th, 2007, 9:24 pm
Hi All, I have read all your posts and have finally come to my senses. I have been with my ex-EUM for five months, the first two were great and then the remaining months just became torture. In retrospective I think it was me excusing his behavior hoping that he would start loving me and treating me better. In actual fact it was not even me that ended it but him doing the usual thing of not picking up my calls, not returning my texts and just plainly ignoring me……. He was good to me in so many ways but emotionally he drained me terribly. I actually use to feel so sad when being with him since I knew that it would probably be days or weeks before I saw him again. I have realized I am a person that likes consistency and honesty and when someone professes that they love you but are not prepared to walk the walk that is a plain out lie. Finally I have said it – HE IS A LIAR.
Looking back on my experience I have realized that I need to change who I and start loving myself unconditionally before I can expect anyone else to love me unconditionally. Hopefully the change in mindset will attract EMOTIONALLY AVAILABLE MEN into my life.
Wish me luck and thank you for all your personal experiences. They opened my eyes and made me face reality.
Jen November 21st, 2007, 5:43 pm
Heya everyone! :O) How’s everyone doing?
I have discovered for some reason If you like a man and let them now etc and contact them they seem to back off! Yet act like you do not care and they do the running!!! It’s odd I have two men who contact me and want to go out with me..I keep these ones waiting! The man who I met first and decided to go for is the one who has backed off!!! Maybe I am just to forward and don’t realise? I am trying the cooling off method now hopefully it will have some effect.I know this for a fact I am not waiting months this time lol If no mention of a third date is made soon I will move on! After all no man is worth out tears and the one who is wont make us cry! :O)
Erica November 22nd, 2007, 2:15 pm
Well, trying my utmost not to call EUM but today, after looking thru his love sms’s I just cracked and called him. As expected, he did not pick up and has not returned my call. I don’t expect him to return my call anyway. I am just wondering when this hurt is going to end. My heart is physically hurting and I am kinda worried that this terrible experience my have lasting effects on my health. I wish there was a magical treatment that you could take to remove all emotional attachment to the fools that we choose to love. I have booked myself for acupuncture and hopefully that will ease some of the emotional stress I am feeling.
Keep well ladies, your experiences have helped me through this hell but I know I have got a lot of work to do to eradicate all feeling I have had for him. Take care Erica
Olivia November 22nd, 2007, 4:03 pm
I was in this situation for two years, NOTHING changes. Do NOT think you can change them, it does NOT happen. It has been a valuable lesson though because i shall never repeat this. Now i have met someone else and now i know what it is supposed to be like.
NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE
you shall find this out in your own time
Good luck
Anonymous November 26th, 2007, 8:25 pm
What a great posting for those of us involved with EUMs. I have just walked out of my 15 month relationship with one. I was pursued relentlessly until I finally gave in. Our whirlwind relationship was awesome for 8 months - great fun together, vacations, fantastic sex, saw each other many times a week. Then suddenly out of the clear blue sky after a fabulous night together, he calls and accuses me of wanting more of a commitment than he can give. He then proceeds to call/email/txt msg me over the next two months until we get back together. It was never as good as the first go around. We just broke up again after he provoked me to doing it. Anyway, I’m very intrigued though about the inability to perform sexually. I saw that as well his inability to climax. I thought it was because of the meds he was on so it’s interesting to see this connection here. Good luck to all of you.
Izzy December 1st, 2007, 4:22 pm
Wow, what a brilliant site. It is now on my
Firefox toolbar.
Mine is a Catholic priest (yeah, I can really pick ‘em). We were good friends for four years before we got involved, after an evening in the pub and he said, “I love you, and if I were free, I’d have to ask you to marry me.” Then he said he’d leave if I wanted him to - I told him that I couldn’t do that, he had to decide.
The line that should have made me run right then? “Kissing you is the most exciting thing I’ve ever done.”
Not ‘wonderful’ or ‘amazing’ or ‘God, I love you’, but ‘exciting’. Hmmm.
An intense few months followed, and he was ordained. Not the easiest day of my life, especially as he was looking at me all the way through the ceremony. What did he want, approval? For me to say, it’s ok?
Oh, but wait for it. Did I take that as a ‘LEAVE NOW’ sign? Of course not, because I don’t believe in mandatory celibacy, and neither does he, apparently, though he spouts it. He moved onto his new assignment and was quiet for nearly a fortnight, then we started long, intense (till 3 and 4 am) conversations on IM. When I visited him in December, we had a magical evening, and he later told me, “It was magic. I couldn’t stop smiling all day.”
Let’s throw in something else - he’s a drinker. He can go through 3.5 bottles of wine in a night and still stand. You can’t even *suggest* he’s drinking too much without getting a “I can control my drinking,” or “You hate me.”
The long IM conversations continued, but suddenly, he’d start snapping at me for no reason. I’ve gotten, “I don’t know why I’m talking to you, bitch,” “I hate you,” “I feel trapped,” [I offered to buy him dinner for his birthday] interspersed with our normal closeness. I’m sure he was drunk, but that’s no excuse.
Same issues with climaxing as many of you have listed above, only wanted to go down on me and not a lot else, stopped snogging me properly most of the time, would disappear for ages. Just as I would even think, “I’m done here,” he’d come back. Gave me his whole sexual history in detail, would even say about current women he was working with, “Do you think I should shag her?” When I’d react calmly and tell him to do what he wanted, he’d drop it.
I even thought, “This is emotionally abusive. He claims to like women, but I think he sees them as objects for his gratification.”
Still didn’t go, because I could *see his potential*.
Every time I saw him, it was absolutely wonderful, and I thought, “Awww, he just feels stuck”.
Except this last time, when I went to London to have dinner with a friend turning 50. When I’d mentioned it to him, HE was the one who asked about the date and said, “It looks ok, but I’ll need to confirm later.”
Erm, NO. Your diary is empty, I GET THE TIME. THAT’S THE WAY IT WORKS - FRIENDS OR LOVERS, UNLESS IT’S AN EMERGENCY.
No confirmation, so when I was on the train last Friday, I texted him and said I hoped it was ok.
Response:
“Sorry - I forgot it was tonight you were coming. I have an unexpected guest, then prep for confirmation tomorrow. Then bed ‘cos I’m knackered, so I doubt I’ll manage it. Sorry. Enjoy the pasta.”
A friend of his was coming to stay last week.
Let’s start with the ‘forgot it was tonight you were coming’. Frankly, I’m not sure how that works, since the list of guests is in the same room where the pigeonholes are. My name was right under the name of HIS guest.
“I have an unexpected guest.” Hmmm. Ok, his guest overlapped with me, but even so, he has always suggested I meet him. So why not, “Meet X and me after you have dinner?” Or use X’s name instead of unexpected guest? And why not NAME your guest?
Yeah, you know what I’m thinking.
I responded with, “If it’s X, I’d love to meet him. Tell him I say hi. I don’t know what dinner is yet. I assumed you tentatively put me in your diary. Later.”
“…then prep for confirmation tomorrow. Then bed ‘cos I’m knackered, so I doubt I’ll manage it.” Erm, thanks. You’ve been doing confirmation for how long now? And you need to prepare? And then straight to bed? Can’t even spare me 20 minutes, and I’ve come 70 miles? Some friend you are.
And I thought I heard something squeaking in his room when I passed it at 11pm. I pretty much took it as another woman in his room.
Next morning, got a really tentative “Morning”, when he first saw me, almost formal. Then, just before I left, he’d been down the hall in a post-confirmation class meeting. He’d heard a conversation I was having with someone and came up the hallway to go out the kitchen door to have a smoke – bit out of his way when the front door was closer. He came over, kissed me on both cheeks, and then couldn’t take his eyes off me as he asked me how dinner had been the previous night, etc.
I *knew* he had a hardon, but I thought, “12 hours ago, I’d have been very happy to take care of it for you. **** off if you think I’m doing anything now, especially if you’ve just had another woman in your bed, jackass.”
But I did take the time to bat my eyelashes, slip my hand between his right hand and waist, stroke his hand and say sweetly, “See you next time, maybe?” Still unable to take his eyes off me, he managed to choke out a “Yes.”
Result. I am such a bitch. But it was so richly deserved.
And then, as he passed me again on his way back from his smoke, he looked back over his shoulder and said, “Bye.” I wasn’t even looking at him. I started, miles away, and said, “Oh, bye.”
He has issues of his own - mother was v depressed when he was young, and I think there are massive issues there. I have an emotionally unavailable Indian subcontinent father - one who didn’t think twice about asking me if I was sleeping with male friends to pay my rent when I first moved out, so a lot of issues there.
And re-reading this narration, I can see how emotionally detached I can be - but trust me, it hurts like hell.
So, after that flimsy excuse for not seeing me, 2.5 years after we first kissed, I have removed his email address from my contacts, deleted his numbers and texts from my phone, and am trying to follow the no contact rule.
But Goddess bless, it is SO hard, because when we are together, it’s amazing. I really do love him - we’ve been such close friends, this is like amputating a limb. And he spent years teaching in the subcontinent (he’s English), so there’s a side of me he just gets.
But alcohol abuse and emotional unavailability do not a lasting relationship make. I have to walk. He has to find his way, I can’t make it for him. I can’t fix him. I can’t save him.
*Deep breath* Here goes.
Thank you all for being here - you’re all amazing and so brave!
Ixx
lauren December 8th, 2007, 5:41 am
I just broke up with an EUM about 4 weeks ago. I finally realized my pattern and THIS time I ended it VERY early. 5 weeks total. I don’t claim that this was fun or easy. The further away from the date I broke it off with this rat bastard user, the more clearly I can see that I was right to do so, and more clear cut reasons are shown to me, via reading blogs like this one. Just curious, with so many EUM’s out there (I live in NYC) getting away with wasting our time, is anyone thinking about starting a site that outs them so that other women can search the name or photo and make an informed decision whether or not to start up with these time waisters?? I do not mean a maliciuos intent in a site like this, only as a proactive move. Hmmm?
lauren December 8th, 2007, 5:44 am
I just broke up with an EUM about 4 weeks ago. I finally realized my pattern and THIS time I ended it VERY early. 5 weeks total. I don’t claim that this was fun or easy. The further away from the date I broke it off with this rat bastard user, the more clearly I can see that I was right to do so, and more clear cut reasons are shown to me, via reading blogs like this one. Just curious, with so many EUM’s out there (I live in NYC) getting away with wasting our time, is anyone thinking about starting a site that outs them so that other women can search the name or photo and make an informed decision whether or not to start up with these time wasters?? I do not mean a maliciuos intent in a site like this, only as a proactive move. Hmmm?
T December 9th, 2007, 12:46 am
Hi all,
I really need some advice. I was dating a guy for almost 2 years who seems to exactly fit the description of an EUM. At first he was the perfect boyfriend and I was convinced that he was the one (still am) - he wanted to see me, included me in his activities, introduced me to his friends and family etc.
He is extremely dedicated to his sports - mountain biking and skiing, and he travels for work a lot, so the little free time he has is often spent doing his own thing. I barely ever complained, but after the first 6 months together I got so annoyed that I was the one making all the effort. We never went out to dinner, he never planned anything, I felt like if I weren’t the one making the effort to see him we could go a couple weeks without seeing each other and he wouldn’t mind . Granted I screwed up by always being available to him and basically got walked all over.
In 2 years he never did anything thoughtful for me, never said I love you, never bought me flowers, and was not appreciative of all the special things I did for him.
Near the end he recognized that he wasn’t treating me properly and 2 days after he forgot my birthday (he got the day wrong) he broke up with me and said that he can’t keep hurting me. He said that he loves me but he doesn’t know if it is in the right way or for the right reasons, and it isn’t fair to either of us to keep going like this. He said that he knew I was perfect for him but he just isn’t getting there emotionally and doesn’t know why, because he has loved women before so he knows he is capable. My theory is that since I am the first woman he has been in a relationship since his last serious girlfriend cheated on him he is scared, and he admitted that might be part of the problem, but he won’t get counseling.
We have been broken up for 3 months now, have remained in contact although I initiate contact more than him. Since we broke up we’ve seen each other and slept together about 8 times. I tell him that I don’t want to be just a friend with benefits and I want to know that he is still working through his issues and thinking about us. He said that he will not say that there is no chance for us in the future but he also won’t say that we will for sure get back together.
I know I am letting him walk all over me, I can’t seem to ignore him and let him go….I feel like I am losing the most perfect match to me, someone I never thought I could find.
Is there anything I can do???
lauren December 9th, 2007, 2:45 am
I know I am not the site owner but I feel compeled to reply to T’s post. You state that you feel like you are losing the most perfect match to you…could you please READ your own post back to yourself and ask yourself just what of those facts makes you feel that this is the most perfect match for you. I am wondering is it that you think your perfect match is one in which you do all the work, you do all the chasing, you are emotionally invested while the other person gets sex without committment, companionship without giving companionship etc. etc.???? It sounds to me like you got nothing but someone else to focus on but yourself.
T December 9th, 2007, 4:22 am
Hi Lauren,
Thanks so much for the comment. I guess I feel like I am losing the perfect match for me becuase in so many ways things between us were amazing. We never fought, always made each other laugh, shared the same values and positive view of life, loved the same outdoor adventure sports and had very similar outlooks on life, always challenged each other intellectually etc. There was always an amazing spark between us. It’s like when it was good it was AMAZING. He always said that he had trouble expressing his feelings, and I kept thinking that I just needed to give him time to address his emotions and figure out how he felt. He kept saying he wanted it to work and cared about me etc.
I think I am afraid to give up the dream of him. I am so scared that I have never met anyone like him before who I clicked with on so many levels.
I want to believe that he just has these emotional issues and as soon as he addresses them he will go back to treating me the way he did the first 6 months of our relationship.
Anonymous December 10th, 2007, 5:08 pm
This is what is so insidious about an EUM relationship. I’ve been out of mine…. again (sigh) for a month. I keep my list handy of all the bad things he has done to me in order to keep my mind from wandering back to what you say T, the fact that “my EUM and I were AMAZING together too”: couldn’t have been better matched on every level intellectually, physically, etc etc, same list as T’s with of course the same exception - emotionally.
I try very hard to stick to “if he was wired just a bit differently, he’d be Ted Bundy for crying out loud! As we broke up this last time, I could see his flat/empty/dead as shark eyes that lacked any empathy whatsoever and I try hard to remember those instead of the laughing, cuddling, good times we shared just an hour before the provoked breakup. What individual can even DO THAT??? EUMS that’s who!
I feel like my only hope to be rid of him is to get into another relationship because he is sooo good at coming back into my life. Super smooth with all the logic of what happened and why.
This site has been a wonderful help. Talking to my friends who are all married and are sympathetic but don’t understand how devastating this kind of breakup has been.
Best wishes to all.
Lisa December 12th, 2007, 10:24 am
I am going on 4 months without contact with my EUM. EUM’s are not aware of how their actions affect the other person. It is very painful, emotionally draining and almost cruel. My EUM would go for days even weeks without calling me, would rather let his voicemail pick up my calls, makes excuses, does not make an effort to make a relationship work, go MIA, and the worst..did not even acknowledge my birthday. He had wasted my time and squashed my self-esteem but the result is that he is the one with the problem. I’ve spent nights lying awake wondering how he can say that he has fun hanging out with me and enjoys talking to me and yet treated me like second-best. To this day, I have no idea who he is…what he likes, his passions, his goals, his feelings. He was an empty man. There are alot of emotionally unavailable men out there. You will not know right away but their actions will speak volume. The hard part is learning to cut them loose. Good luck everyone.
Lady December 16th, 2007, 10:35 pm
I’m new to this board, but from what I’ve read so far, it’s some fantastic insight. I’m currently just getting out of a relationship with an emotionally unavailable guy. I can relate to what you said Lisa…I believe that the reality is, my guy was lacking the depth I thought he had. He seems so empty to me now. Even though I don’t really know if he means to be so cruel, anyone that can disregard another person’s feelings to such an extent is pretty sadistic. My guy didn’t even bother to say happy birthday to me either, mine was in october. He actually ended up telling me that day that he didn’t want to be too attached. It was very cold, and came to a shock to me, especially since he made it seem like he wanted a relationship.
He still pursues me, which makes the situation even harder. The more I ignore him and shut him out, the more persistent he becomes. Cutting him loose has been hard, I gave into temptation last week, and like usual–he treated me well, we had a great time, I felt we were connecting. Then the next night he ignored me completely…and even brought another girl home in front of me at the bar. It was the same nightmare over again.
I realize now that I’m partially to blame for the situation. A lot of the time I can be pretty fancifull about guys and tend to prefer a dreamy relationship as opposed to a real one. I see in him a lot of myself, though I would never intentially hurt someone like he did to me–I can be just as aloof as him. I’m insecure about my relationships with men. I have poor communication, confused connections, and I’m scared of intimacy–consequently, I attracted someone quite like myself. And two wrong dont make a right (I know its so cliche, but I couldnt resist)
Love and light
tulipa December 22nd, 2007, 10:38 am
Lisa thats great a whole four months I sincerely hope things get easier for you as time rolls on …
I still see my EUM I don’t know why re reading my old posts its like Id forgotton the stuff he’d said and did to me …..
Lately for a small glimpse of time he seemed different … he took me out to meet his friends interesting … then he rang me with only two days of seeing him this is unheard of but lol he hasn’t rang me back to make plans ….. he also made it quite clear to me that he doesn’t give gifts but he has given me a gift ….. arghhhhh
I am moving soon and will be living 3 hours away from him I thought this is my out my cut off then he pipes up that he will visit me …but I think it will be the end of this non relationship ..
I have just read something that makes sense to me .
‘ we naturally choose in relationships that with which we are already familiar. The word familiar is derived from the concept of family. Thus what we have known in our family of origin will always be what is most familiar and comfortable no matter how unhealthy that family of origin was. ‘
Another quote is ‘We all tend to choose as partners those people who are capable of the same level of intimacy as we are’
This journey is different to my last journey with an EUM who I was always trying to fix to do stuff for etc. this journey I haven’t done that but I have put up with rubbish behaviour from him time and time again … Its time I was serious about my issues and put him out where he belongs ……
I wish everyone all the best on their continuing journeys .. and I hope we all report back one day to say we are free of EUMs …….
Lisa December 26th, 2007, 8:25 am
Thanks Tulipia but the holidays are tough to get through. Good luck with your situation, Tulipia. At least he’s making an effort. Mine just didn’t bother. Made me feel like I wasn’t worth his time. Douche.
I still think of him though. I don’t trust myself anymore in the dating scene. I don’t trust my own judgement with men. I am not dating anyone at the moment, I just want to be by myself. I hear stories of people’s EUM’s pursuing them time after time when they put their foot down. But mine didn’t contact me at all. Which is good I guess. I will never know if he really is not into me or just plain emotionally dead. All I know is what he said on our last conversation “it’s not that i’m not into you or i’m a jerk or i intentionally do this to you…blah, blah, blah. i have alot of things going on in my life right now.” What??? I still don’t understand it.
And Lady, I broke up with my EUM around my bday too. It was the day after. I had to hunt him down and call him after 13 straight days of not even bothering to call me. It was the last straw, I was really hurt. I’m sure why would he even care. I hope he works at his miserable dead-end job his whole life where he can’t afford a relationship/family and then marinates in his own fluid in a senior home. Wow, I am angry on a christmas day! LOL.
sara December 28th, 2007, 7:47 pm
Wow, these blogs are very empowering as I am dealing with the eum in my life. At 51 I did it again. I wish I could figure out why I am only attracted to eums. I know it has to do with my abandonment issues but I honestly thought I dealt with all that years ago and yet I still have been unable to find a healthy relationship. My experience was short run. From Halloween until now. I’ve made all the mistakes of contacting and pursuing and feeling like crud afterwards. Currently we are on a hiatus until shortly after new years when he will will let me know if he wants to continue seeing where things can go for us. I’m the one that put him in that position. The question I continue to ponder is, how do I know if this is a mars venus caveman type of issue? Well anyway this has thrown me back into a 12-step recovery program for adult children. yep all the way back to step one. The interesting thing is I realize now my life was unmanageble before I met him. It took this to wake me up. I had been neglecting myself, friends, family, and God for a long time. So, it’s all back to basics. Self-care and self preservation. Hopefully sooner or later I will learn to screen these guys out before I fall for them. So sad, because they really are messed up souls.
tulipa January 1st, 2008, 7:46 am
Hi, I wonder how many on here got to spend their new years with their EUM …..
Lisa, the guy I’m with now is not my first EUM the one prior always forgot my birthday I recall one year I didn’t go on my planned holiday but hung around and he totally forgot my birthday I was hurt ….. When we finally split after I realized I could never win what ever battle it was I was trying to win I took 17 months of being date free …… I learnt a lot but obviously not quite that much to realize I’m worth more than an occassional date with an EUM..
Its not that great Lisa when you hold up the facts in the light of day the last date I had with him only came about because he had a cancelled prior committment .. I always come second to something else in his life but I shouldn’t complain if I am accepting the crumbs ……
I read a few books in my time out of the dating scene and also joined paige parkers date free drama this web site is worth looking up I haven’t downloaded her book but I do receive her newsletter which have been quite helpful …..
I hope the holiday season picked up for you, Lisa and that 2008 brings you happiness …..
Sara , are you leaving it for him to contact you and tell you his decesion ?? Good luck to you …..
tulipa January 1st, 2008, 7:47 am
OO ps no I didn’t spend New Years with my EUM ……
sara January 1st, 2008, 8:29 am
Hi tulipa,
congratulations on getting through the news years eve thing. the holidays are so tough. Hmm, well in regards to my emu which I have decided to envision my eum as looking like-lol
detecting that he was somehow distancing himself from me a couple of weeks ago, I asked him if he still wanted to continue seeing me and where things were going to go. He stated he didn’t know and started going into the whole “I’m so busy mantra”, so I told him lets just suspend any decisions about what we want to do until shortly after new years. Since that time I have found this blog and I am forced to look at all the red flags and the fact that he now has effectively managed to emotionally withdraw through 3 major holidays dampering my spirits considerably. Thus I have written a letter letting him know that I am choosing to make myself emotionally available for a relationship by removing myself from one where the other party is not emotionally available. I haven’t pushed the send button yet. I still have that damm little hope for him to have an enlightenment. I don’t know how long I want to wait because I kind of want to beat him to the punch. On the other hand I still wish……………….
tulipa January 4th, 2008, 9:49 am
Hi again just popping by to recommend a book, which may answer your question Sara as to why you keep attracting EUMs … I haven’t finished it but so far its great …
Its called ‘Are you the one for me’ by Barbara De Angellis ……
Its full of pratical advice ,exercises for you to complete and an insight as to WHY !!
LisaToo January 9th, 2008, 12:26 am
Listen, I have been crying a river of tears today because of my EUM. We’ve managed to keep this thing going for a few years. When it’s good, it’s REALLY good! And then every now and then (including today and the last week) he just disappears. No response to calls or anything. All I know is that the last time we spoke, I was his beautiful girl, and he misses me and loves me so much, etc. etc.
I don’t doubt that he loves me. I don’t. And I love him back with all I’ve got, heart and soul. I just don’t understand these periods of “running away” so to speak, without any explanation. And like many of the comments above, as soon as I’ve pulled my head and emotions back together just enough to keep my sanity……..guess who calls!! AAAHHHHH!! It’s like he has some scientific method for knowing when it’s okay to pop in again. What is it exactly that would scare a person away, but never completely away? Myself, I’ve known for years that I’ve had a commitment problem. But I try really hard to see why I do what I do and then look for help to make changes. I certainly don’t intend to hurt anyone. And I don’t think that many of these EUM’s or EUF’s are intentionally inflicting pain. They can be quite loveable people. I suppose they either don’t think so much of themselves, or they doubt us when we try to show our sincerest love and care for them.
Anyway……….I checked in today because I’m hurt and sad. But the honest truth is, when (if) he calls me again, I’ll be available with open arms. *sigh*
tulipa January 19th, 2008, 7:47 am
Just thought I’d share a classic EUM moment ..
I went out with EUM on Tuesday night.. was a good night we all are aware of how EUMS can be great company… Then Wednesday morning arrives and dum da dum he becomes all distant and far away with a busy schedule of scratching himself … he asked me direct if I resented him having things to do… No but later I thought oh yeah that was a classic EUM moment that a few others in their posts have talked about …
Jennifer January 19th, 2008, 10:50 pm
Hey Everyone,
I haven’t posted in a few months. I hope everyone is doing well. Last time I posted I hadn’t had any contact with my eum. Unfortunately, since that time I have seen him a couple of times out with friends, etc. Though we have been broken up for four months now, I thought he would care enough to at least acknowledge my birthday. Like many of the rest of you, my eum did not (It was in November). I acknowledged his birthday via an e-card (it was last week). He had the balls to write me back tanking me for the card and signed it “Love you, Melvin.” Yes, his name is Melvin - unfortunate for him. How could I become so attached to a man named “Melvin.” Anyway, as most of you know that little signature line just brought back all the old feelings. I will not call 0r contact him again. I will not call or contact him again. I will not call or contact him again. I know I can. I know I can!
Anyway I just wanted to lest the rest of you know that there may be slip-ups, but in the end the best strategy for us to use against them is the no contact rule! If you slipped up yesterday or today, tomorrow is a new day. Begin fresh NOW. After four months I am beginning fresh again. I was almost there and crumbled. Do YOU crumble, too.
Tupila, I can tell that you are still struggling with yours. What is he providing you? There has to be something or you wouldn’t keep going back? What is your strategy for handling him? Just curious because it was so painful for me, I couldn’t stay in the relationship.
tulipa January 21st, 2008, 6:01 am
Hi Jen,
I will attempt to reply to your question..I am struggling with my EUM because I know all the facts and yet I still go out on dates with him its frustrating to me because I can not break the habit.. Prior to this EUM I had another EUM one I did love and I learnt many painful lessons which so far I have not repeated like chasing him or excessive contact or trying to get him to love me… I guess I have more facts and hard lessons have been learnt so I let it just drift along which could be seen as equally as bad. That would be my strategy to just leave things to him and make it good when we go out with no pressure and it works I suppose because I’m still trying hard and working on my own issues that make me emotionally unavailable and unable to see that I deserve more from a man it must be working for me too otherwise I would have got rid off him. It will be interesting how all this changes when I move quite a distance away from him…
I do wish you luck in your no contact of Melvin I believe you can do it to and not contact him !!!!!!!!!
Maybe us contacting and going out with EUMs is all teid up in our own belief system and what we think we are worth . ??
Lisa January 25th, 2008, 8:26 am
So I thought I tried a dating website after 5 months of not seeing my EUM. I am not as sad anymore and thinking of him less. I was giving up on the site but manage to get 2 dates out of it. It was interesting and had fun on one date. This man has a great personality, well traveled, financially stable and seem emotionally healthy. The one drawback is that I am not physically attracted to him. He wasn’t heinous nor was he an adonis. But I can’t see myself kissing him. He seem to enjoy my company. He either calls me or text me almost everyday. But I am so confuse about myself that I cried one night. I am doing the exact thing to him as my EUM did to me. Returning his calls but never initiating it. It will take almost an entire day before I return his call. Though I like his attention once in awhile and enjoy talking to him. He would ask me what my weekend plans were and I would tell him my full schedule. Didn’t even bother to ask what he had planned for the weekend. Omg. I hate myself. I am turning into my EUM. Am I shutting myself off again once someone is available to me??? Omg, I am emotionally unavailable*sigh. I am sad and confused. Help!!!
tulipa January 25th, 2008, 12:19 pm
Hi Lisa,
I understand but now you have realised you are emotionally unavailble, you can look at and work on the reasons why you are ..
I’m probably not in the best position to advise you … (I’m looking for space from my EUM)
but for whats it worth maybe it would be best to state you only want a friendship with the guy you aren’t attracted to.. or you could just date him but not view it as a relationship or wonder about the end .. or if you feel as though you are hurting him then let him go. work on you and take care of you then try again …
I have always run away from the guys wanting a realtionship etc. but I too know I am emotionally unavailable and have worked through many issues I am different but I still have a way to go as the book I recommened up above revealed to me …..
I hope you are okay Lisa …… wishing you the best in the decsions you make ……
Lisa January 28th, 2008, 9:24 am
Thanks, Tulipa for the feedback. I think this man is emotionally healthy enough to read my actions since I haven’t heard from him. Poor guy, I think he was into me. Well, at least I didn’t lead him on and think that I was interested. *sigh. I must move on and try again. Need to work on my emotional unavailability.
tulipa February 3rd, 2008, 12:57 am
It is almost February the 17th and I will have been hanging around with this EUM for ONE year !!!!! I can’t believe that a year has almost past and what the hell it is that keeps me in this non relationship ?? If I could just grasp why I’m sure I could end it and follow the no contact rule .Obviously I have no expectations for myself and need to also work on been emotionally available .
Good luck, Lisa hopefully one day you won’t let the good guy get away .
Anonymous February 19th, 2008, 6:36 pm
I find the holiday comments a little funny (in an ironic kind of way), as I’ve noticed that about this guy I “hung out with” (for lack of a better term) last year. He has never been around during holidays. In fact, I hadn’t been speaking with him since last year, and on Feb 15 he emailed me. Hmmm…
I suppose he was, or I should say IS an EUM. I’ve come to this site many times to try and figure out. I dated him for about a month at the beginning of last year, at which time he called it off. A couple weeks later he came back, disappeared, came back, disappeared, came back. After a while I started recording and noticed that there was generally a 6 week gap in between his comings/goings. Over the course of the year he has “came back” approximately 8 times. Also, in the intermissions he would date other people. Or at least attempt to. At this point I can’t help but wonder what # in the rotation I am.
I will admit that this has been mentally a huge struggle for me. My friends and family have been supportive, but for them it comes down to the guy acting like an idiot so why am I so ‘hung up’ on him. I don’t really know why I am. I do know that I don’t want to be smothered in a “traditional” relationship, or that’s at least how I perceive it to be. So maybe that’s my problem.
However, despite any of my issues, I have been nothing but considerate and kind to this individual and in the end his disrespect, dishonesty, and lack of integrity is exactly that - his. Not my problem. And while I’m still having some slip ups and he is still in my head, I am pushing forward. I am now trying to objectively look at this man, and I have come to the conclusion that he is officially the first person I’ve ever met that I have nothing good to say about. I’ve thought about it, and I don’t even think I’ve seen him laugh. Really, genuinely laugh. Just pure unhappiness and misery.
I’ve always been upset because I thought he didn’t like me or whatever, when the actual fact is that he doesn’t even like himself. Or respect himself. He has nothing to offer himself, nevermind anyone else.
One part of me feels horrible that this person has given up on himself so much, and I believe that we must be kind to the unkind, as they’re the ones that need it most. But at the same time, I can no longer sacrifice my own happiness to such misery. I don’t want to be miserable.
However, I do still struggle with the idea that it’s not about me and the idea that these people cannot be in long-term relationships no matter who the person is. I keep thinking that he will just move on and find someone else right away, which makes me feel bad because I was the nice one in the situation so it’s not really fair that I haven’t found someone. You know? What eventually happens to EUMs?
tulipa February 20th, 2008, 12:18 pm
What eventually happens to EUMs ??
1. They spend their whole life moving from woman to woman but never ever finding happiness ..
2. They wake up to themselves get the required help and change.. a rare rare thing in my humble opinion.
3. They live and lead a lonely life looking for someone or something to fill the void..
4. They die alone in their addictions and unavailabilty..
5. They find a wife or girlfriend or a partner who just puts up and puts up and puts up with their crap ..
Jeannie May 7th, 2008, 9:43 pm
this website is the best thing……. is there anyone out there still posting?
Jeannie May 7th, 2008, 9:44 pm
Because I would really like to talk. Gosh, all of your stories could be my own…………
Tulipa May 10th, 2008, 2:42 am
yes im out here , talk away
Jeannie May 12th, 2008, 4:36 pm
Tulipa,
Thanks so ,uch for your response. I read all of these responses the other day and was sad to see that they sort of dropped off and I was like “Noooooooo!!!! Just when I figred it all out!” LOL!
Yeah, this site has been a life saver for me. Without it, I may still be struggling with my EUM.
After reading all these stories, I realized I was done with him. (I have tried to date him 3 times now and nothing has changed). But I was frightened and didn’t understand the infatuation with him. I was also afraid to end it……afraid I would be losing the love of my life…..yeah right!
I haven’t officially ended it…..but then again, he never officially began it, so I owe him no explanations. I will simply just drift out of his life, like he has so carelessly drifted in and out of my life.
I actually haven’t heard from him in 4 days, so I think that if he leaves me alone for a few more, i’m in the clear. It sucks going through this with him. Because just when I start to be OK, he tries to reenter like nothing is wrong…and then I start to question my sanity.
Jeannie May 12th, 2008, 4:44 pm
It was weird, this weekend (due to his non-contact) I started to remember other times when he wasn’t available. I just remembered that he had even forgotten Valentines Day once (actually he hadn’t forgotten, he just never got me anything) Somehow I had forgotten about that……
FoolishGirl May 12th, 2008, 5:29 pm
Hi Jeannie, I am in the same situation as you. I also tried to date my EUM 3 times and each time I just got one excuse after another - the fighting (which only occurred BECAUSE he was being hot and cold), he didn’t want to ruin our friendship if the relationship didn’t work out (self fulfilling prophecy much?), and my favorite - because all his relationships have sucked thus far and doesn’t know why (at least he can admit it). This of course in the midst of him telling me constantly how great, funny, and beautiful I am, that we are soulmates, that I am the most important person in his life, that he can tell anything to, etc. Of course, he would sign all his cards and letters with “Your Friend Always”. They use the word “friend” to convince themselves that that’s all they are and therefore, nothing they do is wrong or inappropriate (even if they have a gf).
We haven’t talked in a couple of days and I am not going to contact him. But I know he will contact me. Because he knows I am one of the few people in his life that actually listens to him and cares about what he says. It all has to do with his selfishness and his ego. It would be way too much for his ego if we stopped talking….cause who would be there to stroke it for him? I will probably answer his call or text or email, but I will not go back to how it was before - doing things on his terms, only asking about him and him never asking about my life, etc. I admit, I still care about him, but I am slowly and surely seeing him for what he is, even though I so wanted to believe and sometimes still have delusional thoughts that HE was/is different than every other guy that is talked about on this website.
These guys are a piece of work…..
Kim May 12th, 2008, 7:41 pm
FoolishGirl, Lisa, Anonymous, Tulipa, Jeannie, OMG I read your posts & these guys are like carbon copies of one another. That is why this site is SO beneficial. Just when I think I have it all figured out I start thinking of how it “could have been” & blaming myself. All it takes is reading some of your posts to remind me how F*d up things really were. It’s like I have these ah hah moments from what NML says or what I read in her book. I think it is just so painful sometimes that I don’t get it the 1st time around. We are all experiencing the same things & I ask myself WHEN are you gonna move on? It is letting go of the realization that a man I loved with all of my heart is not who I thought he was. The attraction for all of us has been the same as I read these posts so there has to be something to that. My EUM like you didn’t acknowledge my b-day, or Valentines Day or xmas. Said he doesn’t do cards or gifts. Always told me he had so much going on. The lead us to believe we are so important. That they love us like no other. That no one compares . Like Linda said that is their “game” but they don’t mean it. Sad but true. I never fought with my EUM either. We had so much fun together, so much in common. Such a physical attraction & I like you was afraid of never finding that again. I didn’t have it in my marriage. I remebered NML saying the reason we stick around is because we hang on to when it is good because they are the source of our highs but also the lows. We hang on to the highs & tend to overlook the bad. All you need to do is keep reading these posts. That is when you realize there is no hope with these guys & that he isn’t going to change for you or someone else. I realized the reason we aren’t attracted to “nice” guys. That was my BIGGEST ah hah moment. Think about it -we think if only my EUM would call me & pay attention to me like these other guys I go out with that I am not attracted to do. If you are like me you don’t like guys that call all the time & do things for you. You want your EUM to be that way. THAT is the problem. THEY NEVER WILL BE. We are attracted to them obviously for the wrong reasons but they can never give us what we want. I just realized that makes me EUM. If I wasn’t before I sure as h*ll am now. It doesn’t feel safe to lay my heart out there anymore. Keep reading girls. It does get better. The more ah hah moments I have & the more time passes the easire it gets. Baby steps.
Karen May 12th, 2008, 11:54 pm
wow! What a great site. I can feel everyone’s pain who has posted here. My heart goes out to you and I am knee deep in it myself.
Here are some of the things I have allowed myself to be subject to:
Being intimate with someone who says I am just his “friend”.
Blows me off for days and then starts flirting with me out of the blue like nothing happened.
Takes other women out on dates (If I get mad and start to move away- he pulls the sweet talk crap).
Won’t make plans with me in advance EVER.
Says he misses me but still continues to date online, etc.
Normally, I have always considered myself to be a relatively smart woman. These guys are good though. They know how to manipulate women. It is art they have mastered. It will take a lot dose of self respect and faith to know that one day, I will (and can) meet someone decent if I set standards. There’s the key- I will accept this. I won’t accept that. Etc. That is why these creeps get away with this behavior- we let them! Right???
Karen May 13th, 2008, 12:07 am
and BTW I appreciated FoolishGirl’s comment on the fact that these men use the word “friend” to justify their behavior. That is so true!
tulipa May 14th, 2008, 12:53 am
Hi everyone, wow I just woke up to the fact we are indeed dating the same cut out of a bloke. Not many differences anyway. My EUM made it plain and clear that he didn’t do gifts but he did for my birthday only now it seems like the gifts havestrings attached so Id rather not have got them . I said when am I ever going to see you again last night and sasid if this continues may as well call it quits well he cleared his diary quck smart but now I feel manipulative .
I appeaciate all the above posts so many good comments we do need to see that these men do not fit the dictionarys definition ofthe word friend.
Karen May 14th, 2008, 2:59 am
The hard part is, I work with my EUM which makes it really hard to escape his clutches. I have been doing pretty good for the most part but had a slip up last week. We hung out and he sweet talked me and I fell for it cause I was feeling lonely of course!! Plus, after reading about the friend post, and hanging out with him, all he did was grill me about my personal life- all the while, looking at my expression carefully. So indeed it is true- the friend guise is only to keep tabs on me. So, I told him today again- stay away from me. I swear- he does not even care that much. It is all about him. Seriously- that is all these guys care about. Themselves. I just keep having to remind myself over and over. He does not care. He does not care. It’s all an act. I, just like all the other women who posted here, deserve better than crumbs of love. I have decided to have faith and trust that things will work out- probably not with the EUM (although I wish it would- it won’t). Someone will eventually come along who can give me what I need and deserve. If your EUM is willing to change that is great. I have lost hope for mine and that is a good thing I think at this point. Here’s the thing though- if your EUM is willing to change- how can you know it is not a temporary act? How do you know it is genuine?
Loving Annie May 22nd, 2008, 3:01 am
The biggest help for me in all of this is realizing/hearing that he will be the same with EVERY woman, and that it is HIM as an EUM, not that I was lacking “it” (loveability)
And I ALSO have been emotionally unavailable my whole life (although I didn’t realize it). I kept saying I wanted love, but picking men who never gave it to me.
I realize now that EUM will mirror me UNTIL I AM LOVING TO MYSELF/ HAVE SELF-ESTEEM, SELF-RESPECT, SELF-CONFIDENCE and am HEALTHY/BALANCED AND AVAILABLE.
Then the EUM type of guy won’t ever interest me again. So I won’t get blindsided, baffled, hurt or clinging to rejection/unable to let go or heal…
This is a great blog ! I found it through ‘LoveFraud’ and ‘HolyWaterSalt.
THANK GOD THIS BLOG IS HERE AND SO MANY PEOPLE CONTRIBUTE AND SHARE IN THE COMMENTS. 10 years of therapy in one spot
Karen June 9th, 2008, 1:42 am
Just a follow up. Like I said, I work with my EUM so it is tough to completely break free. I need find another job eventually. It is not so horrible that I can’t tolerate it but still- there is never any closure if you have to see something every day. I went out to dinner with my EUM last week and told him I am looking for something serious and here is what I expect, etc. Of course, nothing. He said “well that is not me. and I need to be free” so I picked up my purse after dinner and said “well I am not budging” and have kept my distance since. Over time, it is getting easier and easier to phase this not to swift man out of my life. As long he occupies space, mr. right will not come along. And yes, I see him flirt with tons of women but I know that he is really a sad, pathetic excuse for a man. A real man does not need constant admiration 24/7. A real man is not afraid to be there for his woman. So, I just keep reminding myself of this. So, hang in there. It is just a new habit- taking care of yourself and daily remind yourself of your standards and what you will accept or won’t accept. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be treated right and treated with respect. Don’t let any man cheat you out what you deserve. love and respect…
Karen June 9th, 2008, 1:59 am
When You Love a Man Who Loves Himself by W. Keith Campbell
This is a really good book that I bought about narcissistic men. It may or may not have something to do with EUM but I see a lot of similarities. I like how the book describes what a emotionally safe man is like and why women (ahem myself included) often get sucked in by EUM’s, players, etc. Very eye opening and helpful.
Tulipa June 28th, 2008, 10:44 am
I don’t know what I’m doing.. struggling big time…
Everything in me instinctively knows he is withdrawing and I just want to turn to all my tricks to draw him back in… but part of me wants to be strong and kick this EUM to the curb.. I come last last last in his life. Why would any sane human being want this?? Anyway I will see what happens the ball is in his court I secretly think he is gutless to end it and just wants it to end like disappear with no repsonsibility on his part like saying this is over or he wants to keep me in his harem.. hmmmm I shall be back..trying to be strong and NOT revert to my drama seeking bad behaviour
Tulipa June 29th, 2008, 8:18 am
Im stupid and very angry partly at me and partly at me. Im angry at myself because I knew what I was signing up for with an EUM and today he rings and tells me oh I couldn’t help myself I just happened to have had sex with someone else !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh well guess I got my wish GOODBYE MR EUM can’t help feeling angry though I was kidding myself to think it would be any other way well I know now no contact after Tuesday is going to be real easy go meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee …..I agreed to meet him on Tuesday night for dinner so he can explain himself just curious what he has to say .. me just goodbye and good luck ….
Tulipa June 29th, 2008, 8:19 am
OOPS partly angry at me and partly angry at him …
Karen July 1st, 2008, 3:49 am
I have been through what you have 1000 times. Luckily, my EUM has left the company. He was still hitting on me and sweet talking me and then sleeping with some other woman on the weekend. How awful. That is an awful way to life- waiting and hoping for this jerk to give me love. I am greatufl that he is now gone and I don’t have to see him every day. Other attractive ( and let me stress) DECENT guys identical in age and looks to EUM are now approaching me. There are so many decent men out there who are ready to be a one woman man. The decent guys are just as attractive, just as sexy minus the “false” confidence. Sigh. Just kicking a bad habit- the EUM. It is hard- it is sooo hard. I think dating (not being intimate with) as many men as you can is good. Gets your mind of the EUM and gives you hope…
Karen July 1st, 2008, 4:03 am
I used to beat myself up when I slept with my EUM and then he would blow me off. With each day, I am getting better at saying “no” and sometimes have relapses. I am human and I know this is “like a sickness” in a way. I feel like it is a bad dream and one day I will become “fully aware” of what a decent relationship is when I am with a normal man who is like “hey, I want to see you” or “hey, I would love to call you!” normal stuff like that!!!!! a normal guy who actually makes plans in advance, calls when he says he is going to, gasp- is actually available to see me on the weekend! wow- that would be great….
Tulipa July 2nd, 2008, 3:33 am
Actually you are right Karen it is an awful way to live..
The understanding between me and my EUM was it was sexually exclusive and the thing I really had a go at him about was the fact if he was no longer happy with this arrangement then he should have discussed that with me before he want and stuck his dick elsewhere.
I am proud I made my point even though it took a while for it to register with him I think he thought I’d forgive him then and there and we would go have sex somewhere.
He kept making the point I have treated you well .. I just said thats not the point !!! thats not in dispute that we didin’t have a good time together the point is you crossed the line and rammed my point home again.
I almost laughed when he said I wish I could have both of you because I don’t want to give you up I care about you YES ITS VERY VERY CARING TO STICK YOUR DICK IN SOMEONE ELSE WITH NO CONSIDERATION FOR ME !!!
anyway the only point I’m disappointed in is I left the door ajar instead of slamming it shut tight. I asked for space and distance … didn’t name how much I wanted so don’t really know how long it will be before he rings me.
But I left dinner feeling empowered…. thanks to the common sense advice on this website and reading what others have written of their experience..
At the moment I can’t see myself having sex with him again nor do I really know how a friendship could work.
Tulipa July 2nd, 2008, 3:46 am
PS he thought if he agreed to go back to being sexually exclusive with me I would have him back I said no Im sorry thats not what I meant .
I really couldn’t stand to put myself in some competition as to who is the best and who will he pick. The old me would have the old me would have probably slept with him last night and the old me would have probably have had no problem with him sleeping with multiple partners. Progress for me all slow and painful but heading in the right direction and it was reassuring to read what you wrote Karen that there are some decent guys out there.
Tulipa July 5th, 2008, 1:23 am
wow its hard its was friday yesterday not even a week after the fallout and I was craving contact i fought hard and finally won and didn’t contact him phew.. I wanted tomeet him to come to a movie I know he would like.. today when i woke up I wanted to drive over to his place and put the final nail in the coffin completely end it tell him he treated me disrespectfully and its no surprise when I think back its happened before not to the extent of this time but never the less the behaviour was still there and I fully take my responsibilty in this because I had no voice to stand up until much later and the incidents had passed by. I am amazed by the up and down of my emotions. I have written her name next to his name because I can’t quite delete it so if Im tempted to text I wont because the reminder of her is there. I plan to put up a note next to my phone reminding myself exactly what he did so if i reach for the phone i can read it and put the phone down. I can’t email him because I have no net access at my house so that makes that easy … and if I write out and rehearse my lines ready for when he rings the Im home free I hope …
Brad K. July 7th, 2008, 1:55 pm
Tulip,
Hang on, girl. Read up on NML’s ‘No Contact Rule’. The specifics and instructions make a strong place to stand. Review the rules as often as you think of him. OK, at least every day that you think of what he would like or dislike.
You have a lot of experience built up, thinking about him, learning about him to please him. That effort is wonderful - just think how much practice you have to learn how to cherish a *good* man.
Unfortunately, with all the anger and wondering “Why” and “How Could He”, you have established a big chunk of angst. And it takes something to turn that rock over to take it’s place in your thinking. Either something traumatic that is just as big (to put his previous place in your life in perspective), or just plain time and lots and lots of thinking about other things to wear down that rock.
That is, now would be a good time to make your time busy with distracting things - housework, learn to play piano or drums or trumpet. Maybe take a class at the local college or volunteer for a local hospital or other activity. You need to spend time thinking of other things, to let that Rock of Angst start to wash away.
And remember when he calls or talks to you - this is no longer an intimate companion. He is now just another one of the millions of guys walking around that you aren’t interested in wasting time on. Be polite and formal as you would with any other guy that you never knew. The reason? You aren’t his Mommy, you have no obligation to teach him to behave. You do need to let the anger and hurt diminish - which takes refusing to dwell on them. Being polite and distant will be better for you.
The problems you face have nothing to do with being ’strong’ - just determined, and planning well. And, please include finding someone to trust, a girlfriend or three that you respect, trust, and respect. Choose now to begin spending your time only with people of good character.
Blessed be!
Tulipa July 14th, 2008, 2:19 am
Thank you Brad good stuff you wrote and over the past 13 days or so I have remembered the rock and wearing it down…
It has been a tough journey feels like it has gone on forever longer than 13 days of no contact many many times I have weakened then recalled just what he did to me and stopped it sure did help to have her name next to his in my phone.
I have a gut feeling he will contact me tomorrow because I start in a new job position and he will use this to find out how I went. Its not really a good way to show you want tobe friends by ignoring me.
I have kept a journal to record my feelings some days were easy I didn’t even think about him other days were torture but I found ways through.
One day I will look back and maybe laugh about how important I thought this was …
Brad K. July 14th, 2008, 3:43 am
Tulipa,
“One day I will look back and maybe laugh about how important I thought this was”
.. I hope that you learn to laugh about the fun parts, and about the joy. But unimportant? Learning, and growing can never be unimportant. They take their place beside other things we learn, other experiences that enrich us, or problems that we learn to overcome. But you gave a portion of your life, for a time, to your participation in a partnership. This experience isn’t lost.
Or maybe you might come to laugh about how well you learn to think about yourself, and about life, that doesn’t include your ex. In time, a couple three years from now, it won’t surprise you at all to remember he was there, but have to think to remember his name.
Luck!
Tulipa July 16th, 2008, 8:14 am
Thanks again Brad…
Well he rang me on Monday night gosh I find it frustrating that he rings and just wants to carry on like nothing happened.
We played ping pong in our conversation couldn’t believe what a hypocrite he was said if the situation was reversed he wouldn’t be happy nor continue to see me .
Anyway finally I’d had enough and just said I think we should just leave things alone.
He texted me and said he would dearly love to be friends …
And thats that at least no contact is easier i am realizing how emotionally tied up with guy I am even though I fooled myself into thinking I was smart and could handle things obviously I couldn’t.
Brad K. July 16th, 2008, 3:43 pm
Tulipa,
“obviously I couldn’t”. I loved the old-time TV show, ‘Kung Fu’. On one episode Caine falls in love. His master tells him he has to acknowledge his desires. Caine asks if he should then follow his desire, and the master tells him something like,
“Only acknowledge your desire. When you deny your desire you give it power over you.”
What happened is that you aren’t ready to look past your emotions, you haven’t worked through all the various attachments you still feel for him, and you aren’t acknowledging your desire for comfort, for security, and for the very best of what he could be in your life.
But desire isn’t everything. With time your confusion and hurt will change to confidence and become experience, experience that you will be able to use to recognize risky situations and companions, experience you will be able to use to make good choices about life and goals and love. The better you understand what your needs are, what you look for from him, and how he isn’t meeting your needs - not to mention how rude and hurtful he is - the better you will be able to use this experience to move on.
Desires for family, for home, for excellence, for recognition, for comfort - these can be good, or they can mislead us. We have to choose our goals, choose companions and make life choices that satisfy as many as possible. Recognizing that ‘I want a mate’ is not the same as ‘I want this person for my mate’ is horribly difficult. The difference? We have to decide if ‘this person’ is capable of being a mate to us, and if we will be satisfied with ‘this person’.
Please be extremely careful with your communications with him. He doesn’t sound ethical, nor very discerning. You do *not* want to confuse him. So be emotionally cold in any contact, be professional as you can be, be polite for your own sake (impolite is a terribly bad habit to break, and being courteous to everyone is a very good habit). With this guy do *not* let anything get casual. Do not let yourself get comfortable when he is present. And be very careful to only speak to him in direct statements, and for goodness sake, never, ever *explain* anything personal. That is “I don’t want you here,” and “I will not talk with you,” are statements. Anything with ‘I feel’ or ‘because’, or ‘you just’ are explanations - and you tie yourself into a personal conversation that you won’t be ready for in the next year or three. He may never be a safe person to have a personal conversation with.
But I don’t see anything ‘obvious’ about how you felt with his call.
FinallyOverIt July 16th, 2008, 4:16 pm
Brad K., I agree with you! Tulipa, I, too, have an ex-EUM who (back in March) said he wanted to try to be friends with me after a three year undefined dysfunctional relationship that I basically told him needed to end because I needed to save my sanity and move on. He was never able to contribute appropriately to the “relationship” and toward the end he told me he had been “seeing” his next door neighbor, and she basically dumped him (she could probably see what a piece of work he was, too!). So, with this knowledge, I lost it and told him to take a hike. About a month later, he came around and profusely apologized to me for the way he had treated me, and said he wanted to be “friends”. Well, big surprise, he has never even been able to be a good friend to me. I have left the ball in his court to keep in touch with me and it hasn’t happened, other than a short e-mail here and there. So, please be careful about accepting the “friend” card. From my experience, it is a lame excuse and a convenience for them to be able to worm their way into your life and get an occasional ego rub without having to commit to anything. If an EUM can’t be in a romantic relationship, they definitely aren’t friendship material either. I learned this the hard way!
astelle July 16th, 2008, 6:31 pm
Tulipa,
the friend card is to make sure you keep your door open for him.
Stick with NC and you will feel better soon.
Karen July 16th, 2008, 8:23 pm
Tulipa- sorry it has take me so long to post. I am going to the exact same thing you are. It has been four weeks and I have not spoken to my EUM. I don’t work with him anymore (thank god for something). He sent a mass text message out to a bunch of people two weeks ago (myself included) like hey I am this bar and come and get me type of thing. I never responded. Every time I think of calling him- I remind myself that he will silently be sitting there, arms folded thinking “ha! I am so great. Look at this woman- she needs me”. Hell will freeze over before I ever go back to that man. I am telling ya- right now it is freakin hard. I wish the guy would come running back and tell me he loves me but it is not going to happen. ever. It is just going to take time and I need to just wether it through. Hope you are doing well. The reward for hanging in there and not giving in will be- you will end up with a gorgeous, awesome, kind, dedicated man. count on it!!!
Karen July 16th, 2008, 8:27 pm
ps. FinallyOverIt has a great point! and I bet soon that creep of a EUM of mine will be sending me cheesy emails trying to keep the door open. I just have to remind myself that indeed- it is just another slimey move to get what they want. period.
Ann July 16th, 2008, 10:31 pm
Hi everyone
I have not written for some time, and I somehow was not receiving the posting updates. These have been reinstated and I felt compelled to catch up with you all. My story to date is that after moving 160 miles away from my EUM and starting again, I had thought I was cured. ha ha I hear you all say - I didn’t do what I should have done and kept the NC rule going. I stupidly kept the door open and encouraged ‘friendship’. I got severely burned again and again including going a particulary stressful skiing holiday. I sat down one day feeling totally desolate and I realised that every time I contacted him or did something with him, he disappointed me or badly let me down and you know what? that felt normal!!! What the h*** was I playing at? One of my dear friends made me send a text to the EUM to say that I no longer wanted him to call me and I sent it. Great, I had four days without any contact and although I felt weird, it was strangely liberating and peaceful until….. I called him - only to find out that he had made lots of plans and I felt very rejected that I would not be part of them. More disappointment… I then spent the next two days wondering what he was doing and my peace of mind was shattered. So I am now back to the NC rule and feeling much better. it does work and I think that having experienced it, I now know how good I feel without him in my head. Just need to prise him out of my heart!
I am really grateful to you all for your comments - it makes me feel sane when at times on my own I think I am going nuts. yes I know that there must be better men out there, but I still need to remove this one totally from my system. he is a bit like a parasitic sheep’s tic that has its head embedded under my skin sucking my blood!
Isn’t it funny that we all wish for these EUMs to suddenly want us, be there for us and be prepared to go the extra mile for us and we know that this will never happen. Why do we keep the flame of hope alight when every thing that our EUM does screams the opposite? This is the most frustrating question - the why. i also have also pulled my hair out as to why my EUM is like this and you know something? I don’t think I will ever know..
Night night
Ann
Karen July 16th, 2008, 10:50 pm
Hi Ann
I sympathezise with you. I think it is just being strong. NC and time are the healers. Plus, there are TONS of guys out there who would LOVE to be a great partner. Sometimes they are staring you in the face and we are to busy with sadness about the EUM to notice them. That is the most tragic part of all. But- I guess we all need to get these jerks out of our life in our own time. I always tell myself- dont’ call him. He will break my heart if I let him.
Ann July 16th, 2008, 11:00 pm
Hi Karen
How true and you know I have built up an excellent new life, new friends, lovely seaside location and there are so many possibilities opening up for me. Life flows here and when it doesn’t it is because I have allowed him back in. It is getting easier and I am on the upward path. I know that too, that if I call him he will break my heart - you know I never had so many things wrong with me health wise whilst I was living with him - my body was in total revolt. I have got my health back now and think that I had a lucky escape…
I hadn’t quite appreciated that EUMs need us to supply their fix of being needed - that is really their achilles heal and why the NC rule must be very traumatic for them! tee hee - more to come for my EUM - It is very empowering to know that we can be withholding and in our own protective way - EUW!
Ann
I hope that you don’t get any slimey emails…
Ann
Tulipa July 17th, 2008, 7:45 am
oh yes its true I read that they (EUM) only want to keep you in their lives to make them feel better about what they did to you and as soon as they are better they vanish. The ego stroke is a good one he definately liked his ego stroked he could hardly remember a thing Id told him but unfortunately I vould remember what he told me which he was impressed by while I was frustrated… I will keep no contact for now .. can’t say I won’t have my weak moments like an addict. Im glad there are people who know what this is like it sure does help and Brad ty.
Ann July 17th, 2008, 9:40 am
Hi Tulipa
Yes my EUM did like being told that he was handsome,sexy, cute etc and always sounded surprised - almost coaxing me to say more and stroke his ego more. This made having a good heart to heart impossible because if I fessed up just how I felt about him, he must have thought - great more ego stroking. Not surprisingly I never got the same back - then that is normal for EUMs never give back. I recently met a really nice chap and we email a lot. the difference is so striking in his way of communication - he is open and not withholding at all. I read his emails at times when I am frustrated with EUM and they are helping me to realise that there are better men out there. Like you, I know that until I finally let go, I will still have moments of weakness - we are afterall human and love!
Ann
Grace July 17th, 2008, 12:34 pm
I have to say, some of the earlier posts brought me to tears. It was like discovering a shocking secret that blew your socks off. I actually gasped a couple of times as I read the posts and thought “Oh.my.god. This can’t be real. Please tell me this isn’t real.”
Dramatic, I know. But that seems to be the common tie shared by all of us here, aye?
We became good friends two years ago when I went overseas for Uni. We would chat online for hours on end (the most was close to 10 hours) and we developed a mutual support and trust unlike any other I’ve experienced. It was like we put each other on a pedestal that nobody else could reach.
Yet we weren’t romantically attracted to each other at that time. But mutual friends would constantly comment that we were in our own world talking and laughing away. They’d tell us to just “get together already” and we’d “Eeeew!” it off.
One night in late 2006, we got to talking about each other’s strengths and character traits and BOOM! I fell and boy, did I fall hard. Should I mention we were both intoxicated during that conversation?
We became ‘exclusive’ yet not ‘official’ (if that makes sense). When people asked what was going on with us, my insides would churn but I’d smile and say “Ah nothing’s goin on! We’re just friends!”
I had to return to my home country after graduation. His life and work was in Australia. But we continued our long distance “relationship” with the occasional outburst from me. The usual shit: “where is this going? What are we? I can’t do this anymore”. This was responded with the usual shit: “Sigh, I know. We are just too comfortable with each other (his ever-famous line)”. Followed by the usual shit: we end up talking about something else more lighthearted and “conveniently” continue our “relationship”.
By the way, you know things are fucked up when you need to use so many quotation marks while talking about your love life.
And whenever people asked if I had a boyfriend, I honestly had no idea what to say. Because it felt like I did but yet it also felt like I didn’t. Does anybody have any idea how mindfucking that really is. Seriously.
So the whole of last year I was working full time in my home country. I was miserable. I had friends but nobody even came close to making me laugh the way he did. Blablabla, I eventually broke it off and worked so hard at moving on but couldn’t let other guys in. We still spoke online, although less frequently but I continued to be there for him (MISTAKE NUMBER ONE).
September – he started seeing someone but wasn’t in a relationship with her. I wished him all the best and it was much easier for me to get on with life although I still felt sad. I immersed myself in work and partying every weekend. Still felt miserable and empty. He broke up with her a couple months later.
Late December he started initiating contact a lot more and calling me. I had a feeling something was up. True enough, he told me he couldn’t stop thinking about me. He realized I’m the best. He missed me so much. He’s had so much time to think about things and realized that he was always preoccupied with something last time. That was a problem he knew he had, but he’s “changed”. BLABLABLA the same script guys give when they come crawling back.
Sorry, but as I keep reliving this drama, the more I seesaw between anger, disbelief and just plain sadness.
Since I had plans to quit my job, he asked me to come over to Australia to “give our relationship a try”. Of course, I took it. It was something I needed to do so that I could know, once and for all.
I’ve been in Australia since late April, living with him and his sister and cousin. It’s quite strange because we’re not intimate with each other. Even from the start of our “relationship”, the furthest we got to was third base. At that time, I thought he respected me so much that he didn’t want to complicate things further since our future together was so uncertain. Yeap, I’m really good at making excuses for him.
You’d think that we’d be at it like rabbits, given how much time we’ve had to spend apart. But neither of us initiates sex. For me, the fear of getting rejected cripples me. Every night I tell myself to make the first move but in the end, both of us go to sleep.
I would say our communication pattern revolves around avoidance. I’ve erupted a couple of times (after giving the silent treatment during the entire day) and told him “you don’t need anybody. And that’s not a compliment. If this is not going anywhere, I don’t want to be here anymore.”
To which he said something along the lines of “you always think of me as having no emotions but you don’t even know the impact you have in this house”
What holds me back is the potential I see in him. In early June, his grandfather suddenly passed away. That was the most emotion I had ever seen from him. He cried so much as I laid beside him. And he said he’s so lucky to have me or he wouldn’t know how to handle it.
On a couple of separate occasions, word got back to me that he told someone “my gf’s coming. We’ve been doing this long distance thing for over a year and if this is the right one, I really want to settle down”. He’s 28, I’m 24. Word also got back to me that he said I’m so nice and he can’t believe he’s got someone so nice, until he doesn’t know if he can accept it. My gf told me this and expected me to jump with delight but I was thinking ‘isn’t it weird that you’re in disbelief that you have someone so nice?”
He’s said before that I’m in Australia on holiday and he feels guilty if I do too much around the house, like when I do our laundry and make dinner and wash the dishes. Why would you feel guilty? To me, you’d only feel guilty if you think you cant give as much as you’re receiving. If you know that the other party is being taken for a ride by you.
I know there isn’t a third party involved but maybe it’d be easier if there was. At least it’d be less confusing. Sometimes I think I’m too paranoid and it doesn’t help that I surf around looking at r/ship help websites. I think, ‘maybe it’s not even that bad but I keep reading all this negative stuff and I convince myself that I’m in the same situation’. I feel so messed up. And I can’t talk to him because I’d get some shit like “weren’t things starting to get okay again after our last argument? Why do we have to always talk about your relationship? It’s like, things are going so well and then you don’t believe it and you call for a performance review. Why can’t you just let things naturally pick up instead of always talking about it?”
Does he have a point there?
Sorry for the super long post. At least you guys have something to read during work hours, yeh? Cheers.
SIGH GOD! This is the same guy who makes me laugh until it hurts, calls me immediately to make me laugh when I tell him I’ve had a rough day, stops whatever he’s doing to give me a hand massage when I have trouble sleeping, drives out to the supermarket in the morning at 7 degs. Celcius weather to get my much-needed instant coffee when it’s run out so that I’ll have it when I wake up, peels prawns for me at restaurants so that I don’t get my hands dirty, and says what I’m thinking (it’s happened so much, it’s scary).
Sigh okok that’s enough from me. Thanks.
Karen July 17th, 2008, 3:54 pm
Yesterday my younger (happily married!) sister and I where driving and she asked me if I was still seeing that creep. I told her no and she said “Good! when you meet a really good guy you won’t have to question to death if this man loves or not. It won’t be such a struggle.” Her husband is a couple years older than she is and she has had her fair share of player types of guys in the dating world. Pretty much of any girlfriend of mine who is married has dated player types who strung them along. God, I remember sitting with my sister begging her to dump this one guy who has cheating on her and just treated her like a piece of crap way back when. I wondered how someone could let themselves be degraded like that (now I understand!) And let me tell you- this guy was nothing special. Same deal with another friend of mine- married to a great looking guy now and there where times when she dated guys that treated her so bad. The book about Narcissists that I read a while back said a normal, healthy man pursues one woman. He does not need the attention of 100 women. He does not need to be sleeping with three women at a time. He is confident in pursuing you and does not pull back or do other weird stuff that is so typical of EUM’s. EUM’s are just scared little boys in adult bodies. That’s all it is. Plus- we create these guys to be gods in our minds. In reality- they are nothing special. Sigh. It is tough but it gets better once we decide to value ourselves and choose someone who will treat us right.
gill July 20th, 2008, 3:07 am
felt very strange reading all these peoples accounts of the absolute heartbreak that they and myself have been through. i have now finally, finally left my eum. what a relief it now eventually feels. i could identify sooo much with what everyone is going through and has went through. i laughed at some of peoples perceptions of the relationships. i thought it was just me. all the self-help books, amateur psychology, therapy, thinking hes gay, trying to analyse his and my own dysfunctional childhoods. phoning friends, minutely picking apart every conversation, look, sex, what does that mean, what does this mean, until and a woman said it, after a year and a half of this, i was physically and mentally unwell. it was definately like i had ocd. and like alot of what everyone is saying, the warning flags were there from the start. that feeling in my gut which i choose to ignore, the deep anxiety i felt, that remoteness in bed, the feeling i could never quite let go. oh god i dont know where to start. his sexual habits, always insisting promon oral sex, never that interested in pleasing me. blowing hot and cold, phoning me night and day, then nothing for days. one time he said he was feeling bad and needed a weeks rest, as he was depressesd, but i wasnt to take it personally. all the while and i could really go on and on, im sure you all get my drift, i was becoming more needy, neurotic, obsessive, unable to sleep and eat. and like everyone i would listen to myself and end it. i used to think, im not a stupid person, why am i putting up with this. i cant go on like this, and as soon as i done that, sure as fate , his charm offence would go in2 overdrive and id get hooked back in. all the while making excuses for him, and his dysfunctional childhood. i kept saying to myself, i owed myself more and if i kept this up, i only had myself to blame. the other part of me desparately loved this man, and half of me hoped that by fate, karma, praying, lol, that i could make this work. i started to realise, yes this was a very nice man. attentive, loving, caring, enlightened, accepted me, wasnt judgemental,kind, complimentary, etc etc. but not all the time. and whilst i know that for anyone to be like that all the time, is a far fetched, mills and boons romance, it didnt weigh up with what i felt most of the time, which was insecure, unsettled, depressed and a deep feeling of unease. i also know i have issues, but i started to realise this was my responsibility and i had to fix it out once and for all. no person is worth this kind of pain, to totally let take over my whole life. he had become my higher power. the hurt and heartbreak i put myself through, is really quite astounding to me now. but i am grateful for the experience. i remember thinking alot why is he doing this to me. how can he hurt me so much. and a lightbulb moment came to me. i remember thinking, because he can. id allowed him to, he had accepted that, i accepted that kind of behaviour, why would he change the way he treated me. please believe me, i was never slow in voicing my opinions. i would make a difference for a short while, but again, i accepted the terms and conditions, i mean i made half of them myself, sub-consciouly, never the less, i was part of the problem. whenever i did try to change things, i was frequently accused of being mad, insane, all manipulative tactics. he was always desperate for me not to leave him, and i took this as a sign that he did really love and care. but my gut, my instinct, kept calling. i came across a book, by the hypnotherapist, paul mckenna, how to mend your broken heart. no pyscho-babble, just good solid explanations in lay mans terms, which totally resonated with me. please believe me , im not knocking therapy or people healing and going on there journies to a better life. but this book just seemed to finally give me the courage to move on. after many , many, attempts by the way. i feel for everyone who has taken the time and the courage to share their lifes on this site. when u r going through this, u feel like the lonliest person in the world, and totally crazy to boot. thank god i got out. iwas sick of the suffering. i was very low and depressed when i made that final decision, but somewhere deep inside of me knew i had to get my life back. im glad now i met that man. he taught me alot and has made me look at myself. no relationship is worth that. i took my own life back. all that suffering has been taken away. thank god. i now realise, there is no shame in wanting to be loved. but not from a person who is incapable for whatever reasons they have for not being able to give it. i hope iv made some sense. i truly wish everyone the best, and hope they can eventually find some kind of peace, and not to be hard on themselves for hoping and loving. its human nature. thanks again for everyone for sharing their pain. its helped me alot and has reminded me again of what i dont need in my life. thanks again.x
Tulipa July 20th, 2008, 4:39 am
Totally understand ‘exclusive yet not offical.’ Hope you find a way out of your situation Grace doesn’t sound good at all… Shame these EUMs have to suck us back in. Those things he does for you like buy your coffee etc. are they enough to keep you hanging in there ?? there doesn’t seem any emotional response at all.
I think this time because of a long long long nowhere relationship with another EUM I am coping a bit better I no longer feel it is me with the problems and running around trying to change me to better fit with him.
In fact I realised a problem I have, not quite sure how to change it but now Im aware of it.
I did ring my current EUM but he had no time to talk and hasn’t rang me back I rang Friday tis now Sunday in the past I would have rang him again and again until I got him but I feel to do nothing in fact I almost almost let go of him but couldn’t quite do it.
These posts are really helpful….
Karen July 20th, 2008, 5:10 am
One thing that has helped me when I want to call my EUM is- I remind myself that by not contacting him at all- I am sending him a message that says hey, I am really serious about being treated right. I am strong enough to walk away from you if you will not treat me right. I think they respect that. God forbid, they might even think -wow, maybe I let a great woman go! (now that would be cool). who knows. It has been since June 28th since I spoke a word to my EUM. He has a sent a few texts and not much else. I am refusing to budge. I won’t buckle. I am going to stand my ground. NC unless I get the respect I deserve. If it means walking away- then so be it. amen.
Grace July 20th, 2008, 2:40 pm
I have my pissed off days where I distance myself from him. Like, I just wake up and blame him for how messed up I am. Usually he’ll ask if I’m okay. I always say “yeap”.
I have a sick problem where I kinda expect him to read my mind.
Then I have days where I think, “he DOES love me. It shows in his actions. True, he may not be the kind who says I Love You ten times a day, but hey, that’s MY insecurities. His actions have shown that he cares incredibly about me. I should respect how he shows his love. I shouldn’t think of him as the culprit. I’m in this as much as he is. There’s no such thing as the right person; it’s about learning to love the person you chose.”
Those are the days where I watch way too many romantic comedies for my own good.
There are also times when he is affectionate and I’m the stone-cold one who just sits like a statue as he hugs me and stares at the TV instead of taking the opportunity for a kiss or some banter. It’s like I’ve become so used to doing the chasing that when he does it instead, I get all suspicious and retreat.
debbie July 20th, 2008, 3:39 pm
please could somebody help me with some advice with a current situation. The man i’ve been sleeping with for 4 years i truly believe is an EUM. He blows hot and cold pulls disappearing acts for weeks sometimes months ata time and comes back has open relationships with other women and most recently has some women in his house that he claims he isn’t sleeping with but why is she in your house and answering your phone I ask him.
The first time he basically he told me that she was just a friend he was helping out in a tough time and she would be gone soon. This was in April. Now 3 months later I call to see what was up for the weekend as always and the same women from 3 months ago is in the house and once again answering the phone. My blood boiled immediately. I was so tight that i could chew nails.
So I emailed and asked why if you took care of the situation in April is she back in your house? I never got a response so what I did which now i know was a stupid move on my part I went down to his job when i new he would get off to dicuss this with him in an adult way.
Well let me tell you it didn’t turn out the way that I had hoped it would and this man out and out cursed me out right there in front of his job on a crowded city street people all over the place looking at him screaming at me. I felt so embarrassed. he told things like get away from him, to leave him the F*** alone, he didn’t want to hear anything I had to say etc…
Now i am the point where i am wondering if i’ll ever here from him again. If for no other reason but to get an apology for him blasting me the way that he did because even though i was in the wrong fopr showing up as his job I didn’t deserve to be spoken to like that.
What is anybodys take on this and what should I do if anything.
Brad K. July 20th, 2008, 4:17 pm
debbie, sometimes we ignore the warning signs, and sometimes we ignore out-and-out disasters that wiped out everything.
Most recent - you stalked this guy. Following him to work? Stalking.
Next most recent - you are one of his ‘Other Women’. Disposable, handy at odd moments, this guy doesn’t hold you in respect, doesn’t care about your happiness - and is grossly, rudely exposing you to uncountable venereal diseases, second-hand. You have no control or understanding of his full range of sexual contacts and exposures, so you have *no* control over what you are exposed to.
Before that, you called his house. And got a woman answering. Back in April, she was explained, I gather, as a room mate. Either you respected him, know his word is good, and believed his explanation - or you lied to yourself, and figured this was a minor problem and would go away (whether or not he promised that it would). Now you call again, and she answers. Either you believed his first explanation or you should have chosen to do something else with your social and family life. Because she was either a room mate then, and likely still is, and your confrontation at the job site was an accusation that he lied then and is lying still (whether he is lying or not isn’t the issue, for the moment, but that your actions of confronting him, at work, *is* an accusation).
Yes, guys do take women room mates, with no hanky panky or violations of privacy. Really. Been there, done that. Even shared a bathroom. The longest I stayed with a woman room mate was about 1 1/2 years, and there were the two women and I sharing a house in San Jose. Lovely apricot tree out back, I still recall the tart pies I made.
I see two things that matter about the lady in his apartment. 1) You didn’t call his place from April to July; and 2) He wasn’t with you. This isn’t a relationship, it is more f**k buddies, only without the respect and discipline.
What you do now is limited. He *broke up* with you - that four years of sexual shenanigans is over. He ended it.
His messing around, playing musical beds, was not a temporary distraction, was not something a guy that wants to settle down, form a family and maybe raise kids, will ever do. Certainly not for more than a week or two - for a responsible, respectful, dependable guy, there is no point to it. This guy is a bar toad, a lounge lizard. And now you have some healing to do, some questions to answer:
How could you afford to waste time with a guy that would never be a dependable mate?
Why did you stay with a guy that didn’t respect you, or show you any honor?
Why were you sharing beds with a guy that isn’t a serious mate-prospect?
Much of forming a healthy relationship is about timing. Both parties have to be capable of taking another into their lives, not committed else where and not facing trauma (like from a breakup) that interferes with the ability to attach to another. Mistakes, events in our lives, and choices we make and others make can end relationships and dreams. He ended your relationship. Now you have to go on, understand how you got distracted from life and love for so long, with such a horrible man. And, yes, he was horrible. He callously exposed you to diseases any of his other contacts might have passed to him. He remained intimate with you when he wasn’t intending to ‘make an honest woman of you’. He showed with his behavior he didn’t respect you, and his affections were mostly about casual sex when it was convenient for him.
The No Contact Rule can be a shield for you, as you heal and learn and figure out how to do better next time. It will also reduce the risk that you will develop bad habits like stalking.
He wasn’t worth hanging on to, really, and now he is gone. The best way to make your life better will be to follow his instructions - No Contact, and learn to live without him.
Luck!
debbie July 20th, 2008, 5:04 pm
Brad
I just read what you wrote and I haven’t since the incident occured contacted him whatsoever and have no intention in doing so.
Do you honestly believe that by him saying leave hime alone and to stay away from him is an end to what i had going on? I would think that if that were the case he would have told me I never want to see you again.
You never answered my original question that i asked. I wanted to know if anybody thought i will hear from him again.
Karen July 20th, 2008, 5:59 pm
Hi Debbie,
I think Brad is right. and to answer your question- you may hear from him again but that does not mean you should go back with this guy. Believe me, I wish it would work out with these guys too. I always wanted a happy ending. But the happy ending will be with someone else who is interested in forming something stable, committed relationship. You have two choices: Stay with this guy and forever feel like you are going insane. OR move on. cut off contact. be strong. have faith and know that eventually (prob not right away) someone better will come along. It takes strength and willingness to be honest with yourself. Hey - trust me, I wish it was like the freaking movies but life is not. sorry..
Karen July 20th, 2008, 6:31 pm
I hope my last post did not sound to harsh. I did not mean it to be!! for what it’s worth- I know that when I was in a long, drawn out relationship with my EUM, it always felt like I was being shortchanged, frustrated, angry. I felt like I was at his mercy. He was holding all the cards. Now, after phasing him out, I feel relieved in some ways. I don’t have to worry if he is going to blow me off or treat me like dirt. He does not have that power over me anymore. I feel that love should be enjoyable. Love should be contributing in a happy way to your life. If it is a power struggle and tears all the time- things are not in ‘alignment’ on both parties. Good luck Debbie and I hope things get better for you
Astelle July 20th, 2008, 8:07 pm
Debbie, for your own good, I hope you won’t hear from him again. He told you to leave him alone, what more does he have to say to you? You need to let go, you are stalking him already, what are you going to do next?
Let’s say you do hear from hom again, what would that do? There will never be a relationship, he will keep on using you because he knows you love him.
If I would have a guy show up at my work trying to talk to me, I would ahve security take care of him, should he be waiting at my car I would go back in the building.
This is harrassement and this dude would never hear from me again.
Like Brad said, No Contact and learn to live without him.
debbie July 20th, 2008, 9:30 pm
Astelle,
So you mean to tell me that him telling me to leave him alone is his way of saying whatever we had is over. I would think that if someone wanted it to be over they would say so not leave me alone.
I won’t contact him. Really no reason for me to contact him. But would appreciate after 4 yrs some type of response. I feel I deserve that much.
NML July 20th, 2008, 9:42 pm
Hi Debbie, I just saw your recent comment and felt compelled to add something - I am the author of this post and founder of the blog.
What Astelle and others have suggested is right.
Right now, you are pursuing him because you are fixated on having some sort of response from him because you believe it is what you are owed. But he has told you what he wants to tell you and the real reason why you were following him up about this was because you don’t want to cut the connection and believe that it is over.
But as Astelle suggested, if you turn this behaviour around and say that a man is doing this, it would be highly inappropriate.
When these men behave in this ambiguous, demeaning way, it can drive us to do some strange things but don’t let this man and what you did or didn’t have with him draw you into further demeaning behaviour.
I can’t see what it is that you have left to speak with him and you have to stop forcing your agenda on him. Men don’t like to say the words break up and they often like to pussyfoot around and treat you like shit till you take the hint and dump them or leave them alone.
You are operating on ‘Until I hear it straight from the horses mouth’ mentality. But leave me alone does mean that and that sounds like the end of a relationshuip to me. Don’t split hairs over how he has said it. If he doesn’t have the balls to spit out the exact words, put together the two and two of his behaviour and words and get 4 and walk away.
Stop chasing him, stop looking for answers that you are unlikely to get and start asking yourself why you are trying to force yourself and your vision of things on a man that really is not interested.
Brad K. July 21st, 2008, 3:52 am
debbie, I am sorry for not answering your initial question clearly. Because this guy is dysfunctional, undisciplined, rude, and disrespectful, I expect you will hear from him again. I do not believe he will want to apologize for anything. I think he will gladly crawl into your knickers, if you let him, but only if he is stranded for an hour or three and is feeling bored. I do not believe he ever really thought he had a relationship with you, I do not believe he thought there was a relationship when the lady answered his phone most recently. I do not believe he thought you had a relationship when you showed up at his work. So, no I am not surprised he never used words like, “I not longer care for you” since he never cared about you. He likely didn’t say, “This is a bad time for me” because he doesn’t understand why you don’t get what he expects from you - clean sheets, when he is in the mood.
I pray, though, that he never contacts you again.
We are known by the company we keep. Nothing will keep good men farther from you, than continuing to believe you are close to this disrespectful man.
Right now you are in denial. You feel the entire world is against you, that what you feel must be the truth - that there is love between you and him. And, yep, I still think your dream of love is brighter than reality, and is blinding you to who this guy really is, and how very little value he has as a partner and mate.
I want to say very clearly, that this web site, Baggage Reclaim, exists in the midst of a community of women caught in a terrible, twisted nightmare. The ability to focus on a relationship, to identify with your partner, to feel affection and bonding and need, to overlook obstacles and support your partner - these are the very best and brightest skills and aptitudes that you can possibly bring to a relationship. But. The common thread here is the EUM, the Emotionally Unavailable Man, the jerk that for whatever reason fails to act respectfully, responsibly, the guy that blows hot and cold, never fully commits.
By picking the wrong partner-prospect, all those wonderful virtues for building a family and a strong relationship are twisted to bind you into a never-ending cycle of abuse, disrespect, hurt, and confusion. If your selected guy were the right one for you, those same quirks of seeing and feeling that ignore the distractions of the world so you can concentrate on home - would go a very long ways to making a happy home for you and yours. But you have to pick a guy that is mate and co-parent material - mature, disciplined, honest, honorable, respectful, and trainable.
Right now you might be thinking how awful it is that no one can see how much you need and want this guy. I do see your bond to him. What I don’t see is any part of a bond from him to you. And that makes me sad. Because the one-way street with a jerk at the other end is always a story of confusion and hurt. While you are listening for hope in his words, I am hearing that he ‘left’ any relationship between you a very long time ago. The best I can offer is advice: He left, so now your objective is to learn to live with yourself again, to work on being the best you can be by picking honorable friends, and learning to undo all the accommodations you needed to make in your life, to keep that guy around. Grieving hurts, and that is the next step. Real change is tough, you have to leave parts of your old life behind to build a new set of life values, then to associate with people that reinforce those positive values. But not making the changes means the odds are terribly great that you will fall in with another EUM just as hurtful as this one.
The question I hear you asking, “Will he contact me again?” really sounds to me like, “Will he contact me again to apologize and we can fall in love and enjoy the rest of our lives together?” No. You would *never* dare believe anything this guy said that even came close to wanting to be a mate for you. As I said, my hope is that he doesn’t contact you, to interfere with your recovery or confuse you with more deceit. He will never be in love with you.
And contrary to what you feel, there is nothing you can say that will change his mind or his feelings, except make him even more hostile to you. There is no way that your feelings and love and devotion and affection can ever make a worthwhile life with a guy with his problems and history of deceit and history of messing around. There is nothing you ever could have done, to make him a responsible mate and co-parent of your children.
Blessed be!
Unsure July 21st, 2008, 6:56 am
Hi,
I have read these posts with great interest.
I just broke up with my boyfriend of 1.5 years one week ago. Today would have been 1.5 years exactly actually.
The one thing that I’m still not entirely sure on though is whether he was an EUM?
We were a perfect match intellectually and physically. He had all of the attributes I had been looking for in a partner - honesty, integrity, physical attraction, a great job, financial security, minimal relationship baggage and we had an amazing sex life. But there was ALWAYS one thing missing - an emotional connection.
I thought it would grow over time - that it would just happen. But it never seemed to come. One year into our relationship things were great - we rarely argued, spent lots of time together, we loved each other.. and so I told him that I knew he was the ‘one’ (I am 27, and he is 31).
At this point he said that he couldn’t reciprocate that feeling, that he needed more time. I was initially shocked and hurt, and we fought about it a lot for a couple of months… then we decided we’d try and work through it together. He said that he could not describe ‘why’ he didn’t know - he just didn’t.
Anyway, over the past six months , things progressed from great to terrible. We discussed it incessantly, analyzed the relationship, and then last week he broke up with me because he said he couldn’t do it any more. He said that he realized that I loved him more than I loved him, and it wasn’t fair on me to keep things going. In addition, he said he wasn’t happy anymore - that all the intensity had destroyed things.
Part of me feels like it’s my fault that I pushed him away - moved things too quickly and he ran off. But another part feels that he had NEVER truly made the same emotional investment that I had…
I look back on things.. and it was me who was the first to say that magic I love you. It was always me planning the weekends away, buying him little things just because I could, talking about holidays, talking about the future. I used to miss him if I didn’t talk to him every day - he once told me that it didn’t particularly worry him. He’d never go to the effort of surprising me or organizing something special - that was always me. He wasn’t sure if he ever wanted to be married - he said maybe, but not definitely. I know for myself that this is important to me.
So maybe these were just small signs of what was to come? I don’t know.
It’s been exactly 8 days since we broke up. No contact either way. It hurts me immensely that it’s ended like this. To me, he was the man I had only dreamed of.
But… I also believe with all my heart that I deserve someone who will love me as I love them… and that if he did love me that he really wouldn’t have left. This was the only problem we had - we could have worked it out if we both had wanted to…
I would value anyone’s thoughts… do you think I scared him away or he just another EUM?
Thanks xox
Tulipa July 21st, 2008, 11:22 am
Hi Unsure, he may or not be an EUM but he has let you know where you stand he has broken up with you. Im sorry for you and your loss. I guess the thing to do is to leave it be. I hope you are okay and wish I was more qualified to answer you.
Today I learnt my lesson last night I did get contact from my eum but it left me uupset and feeling disatisfied because he never going to return to the way it was . the friendship he offered is also unsatisfactory so I hope I can be as strong as you Karen wow and finally shut the door. its true what I read the more contact we have the more upset I will become and the better he will feel about himself.
I wrote a letter because I feel like debbie I want an apology for how he hurt me for him to take responsibility for his actions, but I don’t feel Im going to get this and now realise it is my responsibility to get over it with or without an apology and also no one forced me into the situation I had going with him and it did end as I predicted so once again I need to take responsibility for this and the consequences his actions have had on me . and no contact seems like a great idea finally.
debbie July 21st, 2008, 11:30 am
Brad,
I know i must move on with my life as painful as it is and will do so a day at a time. I know in my heart it will get easier but it still doesn’t help the pain go away.
You seem to elude in your reply that because he never said It’s over between us or I never want to see you ever again in life and just told me To leave him alone and To stay away from him that it seems that he is trying tt leave the door open in the event something else doesn’t pan out.
Please correct my thinking if this is incorrect.
Grace July 21st, 2008, 11:32 am
I agree with the bit on ‘the more contact, the more upset you’ll be’.
The more contact we have, the more we invest ourselves emotionally, and consequently we’d want more returned to us as well. But this is all in our head because the other party is just carrying on as usual and that’s why we don’t get our desired return of investment.
It’s really quite a vicious cycle. And it’s sad… it’s truly very sad that two people who theoretically are made for each other fail when it comes to practice. But it’s even sadder to spend all your time, energy and self-esteem on an EUM….feels like a rabbit chasing a carrot on a string.
NML July 21st, 2008, 11:35 am
Hi Unsure, from the moment that there is no emotional connection, there is an emotional disconnect, which is emotional unavailability. You may have been having a great time but it was on his terms and the moment you expressed your feelings, his emotional disconnect interpreted it as you expecting and wanting more from him, hence his response. I am sorry for your loss and it is an unpleasant way to be treated. As Tulipa suggested, the best thing to do is to leave things be - these men create more questions than answers and the reality is that you will never have all of the answers and it is best to cut off, no matter now painful. Take care
Brad K. July 21st, 2008, 3:13 pm
debbie, Apparently we see things differently. I understand why he didn’t use the words, “It is over.” Where you see him leaving a door open - I see that he thought is was *long* over already. There was no need for him to talk about something ending, when for him it was already gone (if it ever existed for him).
Your question raised a couple of thoughts for me, that I posted on my blog at Its About Making Babies,
http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/07/21/but-what-did-he-mean-when-he-said/
gill July 21st, 2008, 3:22 pm
again, after reading the readers comments, im very relieved to have found this site. because it just keeps reinforcing my own decision to leave my eum. im sorry to the girl, who has split up with her partner after a year and half. u r doing the right thing, no contact. its heartbreaking, but it does get better. i didnt know at the time when we were in contact, an i was getting the daily calls from him and i would return them that it was all about him and feeding his ego. he needed me there, in the exact place where i was supposed to be. i thought it was because he cared and deep down he really loved me and that he just needed time to get his head together. hindsight, oh what a marvelous thing. i didnt realise i was being used, i couldnt see the bigger picture. again after reading the comments, i can see the behaviour patterns and traits that these men display, even more clearly now. i thought that if i did break contact, he would forget about me and i wasnt ready. it was too sore, and i thought any contact is better than none. now i understand that it just keeps it all going, and slowly but surely my head was getting more and more demented. after each call, i felt i was going mad, felt totally drained. these calls were all a breakdown of his day and all his problems, with family and work, and of course i was constantly fed the line that i was the only person who understood, and he valued my opinion so much. no wonder i was confused with all the mixed messages. on the times i broke off contact, he,d start acting like i was his wife. wanting to know where i was, who i was with. why i didnt want to speak to him, since we had such a strong connection. and again it wore me down and i would end up feeling sorry for him and believing that he must really care to bother to go to all that trouble. i now know, he thought i was away with someone else. he didnt want me but didnt want anyone else to have me either. now when i look back on his behaviour, its actually quite creepy. we both went to extraordinary lengths to keep this going, but for both different reasons. i see now how easy it is to get your head totally twisted and not know if you are coming and going. its really hard not to respond to texts and calls, but like a lot of people mentioned, eventually when you start to realise whats going on, it kinda gives you an inner strength not to. this took me along time to realise this.
Karen July 21st, 2008, 5:09 pm
I think what helps me is (I am 33) I have been through this before where I was so in love with a guy who was a EUM. It took forever to get over him. I was with him for 6 years. Up and down. Tears. Wanting to call him. But I survived it and went on to date other guys. Unfortuanletly I picked another EUM but at least I know I will not die without this creep in my life. Someone better will come along. and if I where to see that man that I dated for 6 years, I would not feel any romantic notions for him. Nothing. So time does heal for sure.
Tulipa July 25th, 2008, 1:17 am
It definitely helps to have been down this road before, all my fighting instincts that would have once kicked in to get him back or to accept him on his terms but been very unhappy .. so with past lessons learnt I am not going down that track. He has rang me again but I had to tell him that it was hard for me to act as though nothing had taken place and just carry on like it hadn’t. I think I said above I wrote him a letter explaining things he texted back and said my letter made him feel sad. I wish I didn’t write the letter or at least not have posted it because he should have realised his actions made me unhappy without me pointing this fact out. He said he will write back. I don’t feel angry anymore sad yes more for getting myself involved with yet another eum and for thinking I could handle things. It is no longer important to me to even hang on to a friendship because really what kind of a friendship would it be just one where his ego is stroked and me left in confusion. I like all what you wrote Gill nad can see myself falling into that situation if I don’t keep my wits about me.
gill July 25th, 2008, 2:22 pm
hi everyone. jus responding to tupelos comments. yes its hard to have and keep your wits about you, when you feel rejected and abandoned. i think that when the lonliness creeps in and you have that aching hole in the pit of your stomach and you think that only they can fill it. im trying to get myself to recognise these feelings and just sit tight, because they pass. as iv said, iv learnt and still learning about myself and my own feelings and to realise that no man, especially him, or anyone else can do that for me. as long as i can remember, iv had that yearning, that feeling of lonliness, and realising now that those kind of feelings have had me in the arms of some very unsuitable men. my deepest desire of course is to be loved. but maybe i should try loving myself a bit better, and look after myself, and treat myself a bit better. iv really struggled in all my relationships, when i think about it, because at the core of it, iv never thought i was good enough. and thats what iv ended up with, relationships, that werent good enough, and me feeling at the back of my mind that one day , my partner would leave me, and if they didnt leave , i got out first. i can also see how iv sabotaged a few relationships myself. now i thought that with all this new found wisdom lol, that i couldnt possibly find myself in the situation that i had been for the past year and a half. well il just have to keep learning and stay out of relationships for a while. yes i feel sad, and yes i miss him, but i know its better to feel like that than all that other torture and misery when i am with him, or have any kind of contact. the stress is gone, yes. so right now, its just trying to accept how i feel at the moment. if this had happened six months ago, which it did, lol, id have been on my knees. im now elevated to standing up. iv promoted myself. i know im getting better as well about the situation, because im not angry with him, or blaming him anymore. which is a good thing for me, not to be lying at night , wrapped up in torment and giving myself a good old headache. im not blaming him anymore, im trying to look at myself. yes , sometimes i can be a bit hard on myself, for being such a fool and perhaps reading into things he said and done, and believing him, in my desperate desire to be loved. just to end, again, yes, he has made contact, his usual traits, but by not answering, its giving me strengh and i know this time its the absolutely right thing to do. im not going there again. even for some kind of friendship, which again only leads to my expectations not being met. iv done all the things that everyone on this site has done, and the way iv learned is the hard way. thats seems to be the only way i learn, to keep putting my hand back in the fire until eventually it got fryed, as well as my head. good luck everyone. x
Brad K. July 25th, 2008, 4:16 pm
Gill, I am glad you hear you are doing better, that you have a plan to escape dead-ends and distractions, when looking for love. It hurts to know you, like others, have had so many weeks and years of confusion and pain.
You said something, “those kind of feelings have had me in the arms of some very unsuitable men.” I think the guys (and gals) that know the least about themselves, about life, and about love, fixate on sex, the physical act of coupling, and think that is the greater part of love. So predators tend to get very skilled at stimulating feelings and dreams, with the promise that physical intimacy will solve all the prey’s problems.
Me? I think sex is for making babies. Love is for building families, for making life a joy, and for building strong foundations for each of us to stand on, when facing the world. Love should be filling that need for closeness, that hole in the middle.
You are beating yourself up to much. We need the anger, the knowledge of what worked and didn’t work, to stir us to make changes. Take your energy, your revulsion for what has happened to you, and focus on learning to make new choices (and different mistakes, at least. There is no shame in making mistakes. Repeating the same mistakes gets old, though!)
What EUM’s and other bad choices for mate often have in common is lack of respect. Which also shows up as lack of honor, lack of honesty, and confusion that getting laid is the same as affection. Choose a guy for his aptitude, his character, his likelihood of being a good co-parent to your kids, and a good mate. If you let sex get involved before you are rock-solid certain that you can trust him with your kids, that you can see him raising disciplined, honest, respectful children, and being a dependable help-mate, you are likely to skip steps 1 through 10 on the ‘Is he worth my time?’ checklist. If all he has to offer is sex, then the great gaping hole which is his character will match the hole in your middle that continues to yearn for affection and love .. and respect.
Some of us find a pet helps keep things in perspective. Something alive that responds to our presence, that depends on our care, (that teaches us we can be dependable), and will often listen for hours and never talk back - or spill secrets to another. Having a companion to help us with our overflow of attention can help us avoid latching onto the first person that shows any interest in us - even if they aren’t a suitable companion or mate-prospect. A cat, a dog, a cockatiel or other bird, a goldfish in a 2 1/2 gallon bowl - the disruption of a pet is nothing compared to the role they can play in our lives.
How a date responds to our pet can tell a *lot* about their emotional state.
I hope the days ahead keep getting brighter!
gill July 25th, 2008, 8:52 pm
thanks brad. iv just came home and read your comment, and actually its made me feel very emotional. yes, iam hard on myself. thanks for reminding me, im especially good at telling other people not too be hard on themselves! i dont think i put myself over very well about feeling angry. what i was meaning was, that after spending alot of my time in the last year feeling angry at him, i thought , i no longer want to invest my anger on him anymore. hes not worth it. funny you should say that about revulsion, yes, you hit the nail on the head their. there is a feeling of that. and even stranger, me and my daughter are going to pick up a kitten on sunday. thanks for your comments. x
Tiffany July 25th, 2008, 11:19 pm
I believe this website and posts are a blessing. I am on my 3rd day or what I have read to be “no contact” and after 11 1/2 years, I’m learning that I deserve better. However, I will never understand the Jeckyll and Hyde personality even after reading thousands of hours. How can one profess to love so much, say that they have changed (using all recovery lingo), and I knowing how he always was believed he was my Prince Charming. That he was the male me. I’m not a kid anymore and realize my part, but how was I to see past the facade? He played on my heart, my dreams, my fears, my fantasies. He manipulated me like a puppet and I even brought that to his attention. I swear he was what I would call the love of my life, my sexual match, and now the addiction that Im recovering from. I remember thinking that I would take a bullet for him, i loved him so much. I sound like most of you, independent, strong, bright women/men. I’m 40 and know that I am now living for me, but I am having a hard time not isolating. I am grateful everyday for the little things, and know that I am worthy of so much more….but the pain continues as I feel my heart is breaking and ‘m lost. Thanks for listening.
Brad K. July 26th, 2008, 2:28 am
Tiffany, I don’t think anyone really understands why an individual does the Jekyll and Hyde thing, there is likely a different story for each. But there are patterns, and most men don’t do this EUM thing.
A really skilled ‘player’, a guy that believes the goal in dating is sex, develops a life-skill for attracting bed mates. As an actor, the guy learns the lines that work, but only glimpses the substance, the love and respect and responsibility that his actions and words mimic. He settles for minor successes by getting you to react to him, by establishing his position of power, by getting his mimicry of love so polished that you react as if it was real.
Only you knew better. From the start, you recognized that his words felt cuddly and cozy, but the love they seemed to express, that love just wasn’t there. Rather than recognize that you were a pawn in his game, you overlooked his lack of respect for you, his lack of respect for relationships, and his lack of responsibility for his words and his actions. You tried to encourage his love by loving harder. By being more devoted. Your focus on the ‘love level’ of the relationship kept you from reacting to his lack of participation in the relationship. And you rewarded him for bullying you and taking you for granted, by letting him continue.
In some ways the on/off switching he does is understandable: He is broken, he is a bad choice for a partner or mate. In reality, I imagine it is a combination of never learning fundamental truths about families and courting, developing bad habits, and letting those bad habits repeat and repeat until they become skills and vices. People don’t give up life skills, such as attracting bed partners or manipulating people, without life trauma.
He likely uses the right words because he picked them up while trying to get into some girls’ pants. He uses a play book, not respect and honesty and a sincere interest in making a family. But I am just guessing about his story.
Astelle July 26th, 2008, 7:32 pm
Brad said:He settles for minor successes by getting you to react to him, by establishing his position of power, by getting his mimicry of love so polished that you react as if it was real.
Position of power: that is so true, but I am calling this CONTROL and MANIPULATION. A man can not control you unless you are in LOVE with him and they know that very well. Happened to me, I was so in Love with him and I kept trying and trying, happy for every crumb he threw at me. No contact is the ONLY way to end this game - if not he will be back or you will be back.
Tiffany, don’t isolate yourself, do you have friends to hang out with?
Go to dinner, movies, shopping, take a class, exercise.
Stick with no contact and you will feel better, may take a while, took me a while, and I feel I took the control back even so he doesn’t know it. Looking back I am still somewhat embarrassed that I chased this man and let him use me.
If you can, please download NML’s book, it will answer so many questions and you will learn a lot about these type of men and also about you, the part you had in this “relationship”. There is no other book out there like hers.
Tiffany July 26th, 2008, 9:01 pm
Dear Brad and Estelle,
Thank you. He tried to make contact with me today via tel (he left no msg) and by text yesterday. I do feel more empowered as I have not responded. I believe everything is for a reason and I realize that he parallels the love and relationship I too had with my parents. (Mother remarried 3x, father 4x before he died at 60), either way, I have never known a healthy relationship and grasped for their crumbs of love and nurturing as a child. Though I understand the logic, psych, etc. behind childhood issues, I truly felt that I had come to terms with it. Looking back as much as I wanted love, I chose those who reinacted the only love that I knew.
I also see that my Mr. Unavailable is just that. Ive been hit in the head finally with a demolition ball instead of just hitting my head against a brick wall. Brad, he did become available to me, actually moved in, but still had his old behaviors. He thrives on female attention, as that is the one thing he knows that he is secure within himself-sex. (I do believe he was a sex addict as well, and I became addicted to him sexually) But its been a full 90 days without seeing him today!! HOORAY!!! I think Im starting to get my power back.
I went to a reiki circle this am, my first one. So much pain was released from my heart. There was a whole meditation about breaking the chords. Has anyone experienced anything like this? I would highly recommend it, and it was offered free.
Unfortunately, I lost not only myself but a lot of my friends over the time I have been with him. I think, even though I know I am responsible, I was isolated by him. He wanted my full attention; he was even jealous of my 14 yr old dog.
So I gave that to him, thinking he was all that I ever needed.
So, I have started a hope, faith and love calendar. I have started going out and doing events that I love or have always wanted to do. I started placing these on my calendar, so that I can never again feel that I have wasted my life. I do know that everything wasnt a waste, but a learning expereince, but I am trying to let go of the regrets and the loss of certain dreams. (Im 40, and always wanted children, and was waiting to be with the one I loved) Anyway, I am in the process of going thru Foster Care training, as I know there are other alternatives that will result in me still obtaining my dreams.
I wish all love, peace and hope. Namaste-Tiffany
Brad K. July 27th, 2008, 12:01 am
Tiffany, I did the Foster Care thing while I lived in St. Louis. The biggest thing to watch out for? That is easy. Don’t assume you can handle the ‘tough’ cases. Foster care kids have a lot of challenges in their lives, or they wouldn’t be in the system. Some are easier for one home to manage than for others.
I had a eight-year old boy,. from July until my company’s contract ran out in November. He tried to run away from school, and from YMCA (after school program, so I could work my full day). I had one incident where he threw a tantrum, and that was only half-hearted. The family that took him when I got transferred didn’t do as well - he rebelled against the mother, was destructive about the house (’tore the kitchen apart’ because she bought the wrong vitamin. I never asked, and he never mentioned there was a right or wrong vitamin.)
The problem with being a foster care parent is that you feel like you should be able to help any kids, and your heart reaches out to those in the most need. But trust the matching process, be honest with your case worker, and get your feet wet - put in some months of care before try to convince them you can take on more kids at a time, or kids with more problems. Remember, even the ‘easy’ ones are a challenge, and they all need your help. Oh, and remember - discipline is the will to complete a task. Punishment is something else. And most every foster kid needs discipline, consistency, and to be able to trust you and count on you. Most are miles away from things like affection and love. The first gift they need from you is honesty, the second gift they need is to be able to trust you - your rules, your discipline, your punishments. Taking in a Foster Kid is an act of love. But the kid needs security and stability - the love may or may not follow. In your training be sure to ask about bonding and detached kids.
And if some of the foster parents in your system have get-togethers for lunch or coffee, make *every* effort to get to know these wonderful people - that you are joining.
Blessed be.
Karen July 27th, 2008, 12:12 am
Great advice Brad!
I have not contacted my EUM. I think he is going out with someone else. Yes, it hurts but hey- one day, pray to god, I have my own man who is decent. Besides, he will prob take his new lady for a ride same as the rest of us. Sadly.
If you think about guys who may have like you in the past but you where not that into them- you don’t tease them and then smack them in the face right?? well that is what an EUM does. So every time I get weepy- I think of cruel he is deep down.
I know it is bad but focusing on the bad parts of him helps to get over it.
I would rather be alone that compromise my self worth. Besides, I remind myself all the time- even if we did get back together, he would cheat on me. He would belittle me. Life is to short to be treated like crap.
Hope things are getting better for everyone on here. My heart goes out to all of you and hope that we all can be with a good guy some day. hurray!
Karen July 27th, 2008, 12:42 am
sigh. You know my cousin died last week of cancer. She was 44 years old and has a wonderful husband and seven year old daughter. My cousin was one of the most loving, caring people you ever met. It made me so sad when she died but I realized something. Life is really truly unfair. Now I really see how crucial it is to appreciate the good people in your life and support relationships “of good”. So while I am angry at my EUM- I know (and this is really horrible) that I where gone. I don’t think it would matter that much to this guy. So, yeah. Being with someone loving is important.
Brad K. July 27th, 2008, 4:13 am
Karen, sorry you lost your cousin.
Blessed be.
Karen July 27th, 2008, 4:46 am
Thanks Brad. I appreciate it.
It is sad but this is life sometimes. Just have to keep going.
Karen July 28th, 2008, 1:59 am
Here is something amusing. My EUM emailed an article to me entitled “how do you know he loves you”! can you believe it. wow. Every once in a while, he finds excuses to “email” me. It is so weird- I would never do that to someone. I would never taunt someone that I knew cared about me but I was not sure I wanted to be with them. You know. Cause that would be mean and selfish. I shake my head in amazement. oh well. Some people in this world are good people. Some are not I guess.
Ann July 30th, 2008, 2:53 pm
Hi everyone
I am still plodding on with contact to and from my EUM. But you know, I no longer feel rocked by his lack of interest. I have managed to build a new life for myself with lots of new friends and started to have fun again. I am still reading lots to help keep me focused so that I don’t slip back into a relationship with this EUM. I know that he is totally unable to conduct a proper relationship and I know that I will find someone new when I have completed the inner work I need to do. If you are aware of the book, Are You the One for Me by Barbara de Angelis, there is a section on Fatal Flaws. The one that struck me about EUMs is that they have just not grown up and the thought of responsibility just blows their minds. This fits nicely into the lack of commitment they demonstrate and the blowing hot and cold. The section on commitment states that before we move in or commit ourselves further, we need to know that our EUM will also commit to working at the relationship. Both parties committing at this stage is called Commitment Level 2 and Barbara says that if you have not got a Level 2 commitment after 4-6 months, then you should get out. I realised with some shock that I had not received a level commitment 2 after 4 years!!! he is still the same in that he likes the all the fun and easy going times we spent without any pressure but the thought of committing to working at the relationship sends him into a spin. He told me a few months ago that he would rather lose the relationship than seek help to fix it. That really was the end even although at the time I was still grieving for the loss of the relationship.
I think that many of these EUMs are BIT like small children in the playground at school who are lonely deep down because all their mates have graduated, left and gone out into the real world of meaningful relationships. I feel that I know the whole EUM thing inside out now and I know that I will never make the same mistake again of falling for someone who can’t be open, intimate or commit to working at a relationship.
I am meeting him in a couple of weeks for a coffee and it will be interesting to observe myself with him. I just feel so very different now and it feels like a very good place to be.
Ann
xxx
Tulipa August 1st, 2008, 12:45 am
Hi Ann, I have read that book it was interesting to read. Funnily enough it was my EUM who put me on to it. He has read it too but continues on his merry way never changing because i think there are unfortunately thousands of women who are in bad places themselves and instead of working on themselves the women i mean they make the EUM their project. So I feel hurt cos I so easily replaced before he even said a word to me he had replaced me.
I am pathetic in my own attempts to cut contact so I figure somewhere I must be gaing something from having contact. Fortunately I live a 3 hour drive from him so I don’t see him and each passing day it is easier I am no longer angry now just sad that I put myself in a postion that caused me pain. He rang me Wed. night and tried to talk about what had happened with the women he is with now but I just thought you are so child like you took the selfish way what gratified you then and there with no thought to who might hurt. So I agree they are childlike in their responses and reactions to situations and hypocritical.
He said at the end of the conversation that I could call him anytime I liked if I wanted to chat to him about anything I said no I won’t be calling you so he said surer than sure he would call me. I think by the time he does call I will be in a different state again. I admit to mistakes in the conversation such as saying I had pockets of time where I missed him…. then immediately kicked myself. I sounded whiney when I said What about your birthday I had plans good plans now I don’t get to implement them … how embarrassing to say that ….
I sounded emotionally still invested when I rounded on him for trying to tell me about the woman he is now… surprised he didn’t hang up…
So bottom line I should not have engaged in any conversation. Always learning the hard way but waking up slowly.
Karen I too am sorry for the loss of your cousin and hope you are doing well..
Good luck everyone on your journeys I hope it gets easier .
Brad K. August 1st, 2008, 4:29 am
Tulipa, Dreams die hard. And that is probably a good thing. If your guy were responsible, reliable, and respectful, then holding on would be the right thing for you to do. But for this guy? You need to separate your dreams of a family, of a permanent home with a wonderful mate, from the hope that this guy might be worth keeping (or even safe to keep around).
You may never have had a Compton’s encylcopedia salesman, or vacuum cleaner salesman darken your door. About the sixth one, though, you start to get the knack. You meet them at the door with “No.” You don’t explain, you don’t be polite, you do *not* let them start talking.
When you hear his voice, or realize it is his email or phone call or IM or whatever, you have to shut down your response. Stop doing anything he can pretend is a reward - such as your speaking to him, letting him speak, or giving him any attention at all.
You might keep a diary, and record how long it takes for you to think of something else after his call. The time should get shorter. You might write in each time you think of him, and what you think of, whether it is missing his touch or something that he would like. Then you could consider which times might be general wishes for a companion, and he was the most usual companion recently, vs. which times were about his impact on your life, and how you shaped your life to him.
Again, none of your responses would be wrong, if the guy measured up. But while you are disconnecting and healing, it may help to work out your desires, so you can acknowledge them to keep them from overpowering you (you don’t need to satisfy desires, but refusing to acknowledge them makes them very powerful.)
You could use your diary to keep track of contacts with him, times you wanted to contact him that you didn’t and why. Then read back a few days at the end of each day. Review what happened in your life, try to understand what went wrong when you felt bad about something, and to bask again in the glow when something went right.
Just like keeping a food diary helps many dieters, an emotional diary can help you understand and direct your healing.
Blessed be!
Karen August 3rd, 2008, 2:03 am
Hi Tulipa,
Boy do I know how you feel! I just removed my EUM from facebook because he was posting pics of him and his new girlfriend all the time. Talk about painful stuff. So I deleted him and sent an email saying good bye, etc. Next day I get an email that says “uh ok take care” whatever.
I have not seen or spoken to my EUM for 7 weeks now. He is so arrogant that he thinks how dare a woman not chase after me!! I shut down his few early feeble attempts to get together and well, sigh. Guess I lost my chance with mr. to hot to trot. lol. Sadly, there are plenty of women ready to give him what he wants at very (or no) expenditure whatsoever so why should he bother with me?
Besides, if I did actually see him, he would just take the opportunity to punish me for even daring to think he was not chase worthy. No romance to that!!
I started volunteering more and need to get away from the whole dating thing for a while. Need to heal myself and forgive myself for falling for a creep. It gets easier over time. I honestly don’t wish harm on anyone but we all eventually reap what we sew in life. So I know eventually, (and hopefully) to meet a decent guy.
Best to all!
Tulipa August 4th, 2008, 10:43 am
Thank you both Brad and Karen your responses have helped me a lot. I think it is getting easier now. Yesterday when thinking of him and her together I still felt a sting of hurt go through me but today is better I am learning I have choices how I let this affect me and I am hopefully choosing the right way by not entering into drama with him anymore.
I have been keeping a journal Brad it is indeed very helpful. Whenever I felt like contacting him I would write out our imaginary conversation and it always would end in my writing with me not really having anything to say so I would not have the need to ring anymore. I wrote all my emotions out and looked at my choices and options. It really was a great thing for me to do as I am far more aware of myself now thanks largely to this website .. I don’t say I’m cured but I’m learning.
I hope your journey continues to go well, Karen, I admire you and for the time you have gone with no contact …
I have also written myself a stern note of how to behave next time he rings and stuck it next to my phone so I don’t enter into anymore embarrassing conversations of “I miss you do you miss me?” etc.. I read it everyday …
Karen August 4th, 2008, 1:26 pm
Hi Tulipa,
It gets easier. You are doing great though! I have been through everything you have been through. As time goes on, I accept that I will not be with this person. I just try and focus on the good things. If a cute guy is checking you out (or something like that!) focus on that. Tell yourself “hey, you know what- I am attractive. I will be able to love and feel this way for someone else someday and it will be a 100 times better” I do that. I find that helps and is an ego booster!!! It also shows you that this situation is temporary and one day, things will be different (better!).
Yes, I wish it was not so painful but at least we took the chance of opening our hearts to someone. Maybe it looks like we lost but we did not. It just looks that way!!! Right now at least.
Karen August 4th, 2008, 1:52 pm
Just another thought. Maybe fate is stepping in a saving us from a terrible existence from the man we think we supposedly love! Sometimes we can’t help ourselves so fate has to step in. Perhaps if we stayed with this EUM we would have a sad existence and never know what true love is. That is my two cents. I could be wrong.
Ann August 4th, 2008, 3:51 pm
Hi Tulipa,
I can say from my own healing that it does get better with each passing day and although I stil have a little contact with my EUM, I really don’t want him back. I see him as pathetic and totally incapable of conducting a proper relationship. I too worried that when we split up that he would meet someone else and I fretted about this no end. However, if I think about him with someone else now, I know that he would do the same thing to her and I would wonder just how long it would take for her to dump him. Believe me leopards do not change their spots. When she does just watch that he doesn’t try coming back to you for comfort. Whatever you do, don’t fall for it. He wants a mummy and you want a lover - these two are incompatible! Yes I agree with Karen, she calls it fate, I call it our guardian angels - we are looked after from bad situations - it is just difficult sometimes to hear the message or if we do, we chose to ignore it.
Be brave, there are better lovely men out there!
Love
Ann
Tulipa August 8th, 2008, 12:10 am
Thank you thank you it helps so much to know I’m not alone..
I have to stop counting the days its almost like an obsession.. its been 9 days since he rang its been 39 days since I last saw him argh its driving me nuts but I don’t know how to stop…
Karen August 8th, 2008, 2:36 am
Hi Tulipa,
Today I got an email from my EUM. Nothing special par usual. He just sent an email like Oh I thought of you when I saw this, etc. For the first time, I did not really care that much. The thought of him with another women does not bother me all that much anymore either. One thing that helped is- I started to join some clubs and even tried online dating. While I did not meet the man of my dreams, I did get some attention from guys and I began to see that there is life after EUMs! I like flirting with guys and I welcome the attention. It is an ego boost. You can have fun with it and show yourself that you are attractive and most of all- yes, YOU have power of you. No one else, including some mediocre EUM can have any power over you. I know it is painful right now. It is like getting over a bad habit. Hang in there and one of these days you are not going feel what are feeling now. Trust me. It gets better.
(-:
Karen August 8th, 2008, 2:48 am
One thing time does for sure is allow you to see things for what they are. If you are able to stay away from your EUM for two months-. I know you feel so different than how you feel now. Time gives you clarity and allows you to see a person and situation in an objective manner. It is painful initially but you will see what I mean once you have no NC and move on with your life. Just try and keep really, really busy right now. Do anything. Clean. Watch a movie. call a friend. Hang with your family. Just don’t allow yourself to sit alone thinking of your EUM cause that is when your going to feel sad and nostalgic. At least if you are able to stay away for two months with no contact and you feel the same about your EUM- then maybe it is meant to be. But trust me, you will not feel the same. I guarantee it.
Tulipa August 9th, 2008, 6:06 am
Argh I wasn’t keeping myself busy and I got some mail about a situation that my EUM helped me out with.. so instead of waiting to tell him when he eventually decides I’m worthy of a phone I texted him, with the news now he did respond, but not how I expected. My motives weren’t pure I just wanted a fix some attention something to tell him hey Im alive !!!! of course all which he knows… so after examining my motives and realizing they weren’t pure I have decided the best course of action for me is to end it once and for all I was kidding myself to believe we could be friends my patterns of relating are way unheathly ie the need to control him and for him to respond to me in the way I see appropriate. I just have to bide my time and once I can in a proper manner I am cutting all ties.
Thank you, Karen, for all your support it is really appreaciated.
Karen August 9th, 2008, 3:21 pm
I know how you feel. I did the same things initially hoping to stay on EUM radar screen. It is no fun to be dumped or forgotten about. It felt (and still feels) yucky but that is life and one day I will be thanking the stars for it. Hang in there. You are worth so much more and you deserve to be happy. Just remember you deserve to be with a guy who is serious about treating you right. I see now how crucial that is for myself too. I am going to clean today. so I can feel like I am “cleaning and opening new opportunities in my life!” yea!
Tulipa August 14th, 2008, 3:06 am
Thank you Karen, I am still counting the days but am not so obsessive about it now. I have to fight strong strong urges to ring or text again, but remember what my aim is ie maintain my dignity, not believe that I did anything wrong this is what I have always done gone running after the one who wronged me even though I made it clear he wronged me by confronting him a major step alone for me Im trying not to feel guilty about this and the fact I was truthful and maybe harsh in what I said it is still not my fault and I don’t have to chase him.
I remember in the movie My Best Friend’s Wedding, Rupet Everett asked Julia Roberts “Who is chasing you?” and she had to admit no one was particularly the guy she was chasing.. this keeps me going he knows how to get in touch with me and he said he would call me “surer than sure I will call you”
I know and can see there is still some emotional investment here on my part. But every day I get stronger and will NOT CONTACT him..
I hope your journey is continuing well Karen and I might just be inspired to clean myself.
Karen August 15th, 2008, 1:51 am
My EUM texted me to go to dinner tonight and it was last minute of course. I texted him back and said hey, do you want to talk on the phone? nothing. In the past I would have been so sad and now it is like eh, who cares. Right then my sister called me and said you know he is just calling you to massage his ego. It has nothing to do with you. She is right. In the past, I thought I was not good enough or pretty enough to be worth a decent man’s time. That is a HUGE reason EUM’s are able to get to women like me. Now I say you know what. I am decent. I can have what I want in this world and I don’t have to take this crap. Also, having had no contact with my EUM has allowed me to see that he is a big loser. He really is. A real man would be able to step up and be there for his woman! so there you go. You are worth it!!! don’t sell yourself short!!! hang in there!!!
Brad K. August 15th, 2008, 3:37 am
Karen, Oops! Didn’t you mean to reply, “No.”? A text message is an insidious contact. Inviting him to phone you, though, sounds like opening a can of worms for someone.
Sometime check out “Six Days, Seven Nights” with Harrison Ford and Anne Heche. Yes, the whole thing is trite, and predictable, and is still comforting. Watch Anne Heche’s eyes open up to her fiance’s romanticism - with himself. Watch her discover how attractive a bit of character is, as she discovers Harrison Ford. Listen to Ford, in the Airplane, describe how a woman makes herself attractive - “She shows up.:” The secret, Karen, is not finding someone to accept you - the secret is to pick someone worth your time, then learn to communicate with them.
Karen August 16th, 2008, 3:28 pm
Hi Brad,
yes- you are right. I meant to say “no” as well! I think I invited him to phone me just so I could prove to myself one last time that he would let me down and he did.
I ended up writing him an email that said pretty much get out of my life and do not contact me ever again. I have never done that and I had finally reached my limit with the games and the nonsense. Honestly, I don’t even find him attractive. How could I be attracted to someone who gets off hurting me? But I realize it has nothing to do with me. It is all about him and making himself feel wanted. He is sick and needs help but that is not my problem anymore.
I will watch that movie you suggested. I see how important it is to have a positive self image so I can attract a healthy man. You are so right about learning to communicate with someone correctly. I don’t think anyone is perfect though. The bottom line is two people who want the same thing and are willing to work with each other and be together to make it work right? So far, any successful unions I have seen, that seems to be key component.
Brad K. August 16th, 2008, 4:05 pm
Karen,
I meant, didn’t you mean to say, “No.” as the whole conversation? As in, there is nothing else you need to say to him, and anything else you say, write, text, or IM just keeps you tied to the past, and leads him on.
I think the essentials are trust and respect. Which seems easy - you just feel like trusting and respecting someone. But the important part, is *knowing* the partner-prospect.
When you know their character, will anything make you rethink your respect, or your trust? When you know their personal and family history, are there problems lurking that a reasonable person would have baggage from, or has this person actually dealt with everything?
Several of the neighbors when I grew up had a trivet hanging on the wall, ‘Kissin’ Don’t Last / Cookin’ Do!’ At the time, kitchen stuff was the image of a ‘good’ wife in Iowa farm country. But I think the message is still pretty much true - build a happy home, then add the sex. If you let sex lead you into a relationship, you risk getting there — and you realize that the guy doesn’t have what it takes to build *any* home, let alone a happy home.
And that is what we mean by a ‘relationship’ - a home, a place where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in. A home is built of people. You stay in a house or apartment, but you live in a home.
There are good people out there. But they usually don’t hang with assclowns.
Luck!
Tulipa August 17th, 2008, 12:41 am
Wow glad I popped by this morning because after 9 days no contact from me and 18 days no contact from him I am feeling weak. but I will stay strong I will go out and keep busy. Hate these games too hes a gutless wonder probably hasn’t rang me because Ive been harsh and straight with him last few times he has called so he can’t take that because its the truth and it doesn’t massage his ego at all. So thank you very much heres to being strong and keeping away from phone and text and letting go.
Karen August 17th, 2008, 7:29 pm
Thanks for the advice Brad! you are right. Trying to create a relationship from sex is a waste of time. It is to easy to overlook someone’s obvious flaws. I saw warning signs that I choose to ignore from the start. I was attracted to my EUM but he had many, many issues (and still does).
My email was pretty harsh to him and I did that so he would be scared to contact me. I guess I had to use tough love on myself. He is sick and I am sick for even wanting to continue seeing someone like that. But, it is process to recovery. It gets easier over time and the key is not ignore the voice in the beginning that says “uh, there is something not right about this guy!!!!” this all could have been avoided if I listened to my gut.
Tulipa August 19th, 2008, 4:19 am
its true when we look back all the red flags were flying and we chose to ignore them. I do not absolve my responsilbility from putting myself in the situation doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt or we want a different ending.
I wonder if it will work Karen and he will finally stay away from you can’t believe he texted you to ask you to dinner then backed away cos you wanted a phone call.. yet he was willing to see you face to face… strange
I couldn’t keep my texting fingers to themselves and ended up getting a text followed by a phone call followed by a day to meet… I think I just want a better ending and no Im not talking fairytale ending Im talking a decent ending Im sick of things in my life ending badly and there is no chance to fix it. Im not saying this situation can be fixed it can’t be but it can end better… I know he doesn’t deserve it but I feel I owe it to myself. Though it probably should be that he needs to end things better with me and not me with him because he wronged me. I’m not good at letting go. Anyway thats where its at.
Karen August 20th, 2008, 3:56 am
I have not heard from him since I told him to leave me alone. The first couple of days after I sent the email where tough but now I feel almost relieved that I don’t have to deal with his games anymore. Everything is his way or no way and I just could not take it anymore. He does not care. He is a coward. He is weak. The email prob scared him but you know what. If I did not send that email I would still be getting text messages to meet him for dinner (and we are talking meet me for dinner in like 10 minutes type of text messages). Total lack of respect and caring for me. Yes, it is hard to make change but I would rather be alone in this world then to sell my soul to “get some action” once in a while. Besides, there is nothing romantic about someone who is using you for sex and does not care. Every day I am thinking yes, I did the right thing. Sometimes when people treat you bad, there is no nice way to end things. If he was a nice guy, he would have been mature enough to end things right but he is selfish and childish. Tulipa, I don’t know how your EUM is. You can do what I did. Send an email maybe? a nice goodbye email? it is up to you. You know what it is best for you. Here is to raising the glass to change and welcoming the new and letting go of things that do not serve for the good!
Brad K. August 20th, 2008, 5:07 am
Karen,
For many people, writing that brutal parting letter is very healing - but the wisdom is that it is better to throw it away, unsent.
When he doesn’t respect you, he won’t respect what you have to say. That is one reason that the No Contact rule begins with cutting contact - no last shout, no explanation - and that makes good sense to me. Actually delivering the message establishes one more tie to him, and to your past, often a very strong tie because it is so emotional for you.
Because he doesn’t respect you or anything you say, except what he can manipulate to get his way, the chance that he hears what your messages says - is remote.
Cutting contact completely, going ‘cold turkey’, focuses on your feelings, and on your future. Now, in addition to all your other history with the guy, you will be waiting to see if he ever does respond to your email, and if he does, what his response will be. I expect that the message won’t change anything, and almost certainly doesn’t do him any good, nor you either, in the long run.
An email or letter is embarrassingly easy to post and pass around to friends, enemies, video sites - it is better never to have let those harsh words leave you. Sometimes such letters get to friends, family, jobs, etc.
You don’t want to hold your anger and hurt inside, but you do want to keep them private for at least 24 hours .. or a year or three .. before deciding whether to send or keep them. Acknowledge your fears, your anger, your hurt, or they will cripple you. But you don’t have to confront someone you have already dropped from your life. Let the future begin .. now.
Sorry, Karen, this approach has gone awry and hurt a lot of people.
SuzieQ August 20th, 2008, 4:04 pm
Brad, I also sent my EUM a goodbye e mail that was pretty harsh. That was 2 weeks ago and I have not heard from him since. Maybe it wasn’t a good idea to send it for the reasons you mention, but I am glad I did. For some people like Karen and myself, we have a hard time with No Contact and we give in when these guys text or call. I know I tried No Contact so many times and would give in when he would keep pleading. Now, I don’t have to worry about it. I am sure he hates me for the things I said in the e mail. Yes, I feel bad about that but now the relationship has been severed for good and we can both move on. Sometimes you have to take drastic steps to get out of a never ending cycle.
Karen August 20th, 2008, 6:43 pm
I agree with SuzieQ very much. The email I sent was very short and to the point. It was only five lines long and said I wish you well. I don’t want to be friends. Dont ever contact me again so. Nothing that I would not want anyone to see per say and I did keep that in mind. SuzieQ is right. I had to say do not contact me for him to get the message. Now, if he does contact me again (doubtful) that is when I simply do not respond. No contact forever.
Brad K. August 20th, 2008, 7:42 pm
SusieQ, If you have to send a parting message, I would rather see you go to an attorney / legal aid center, and have a formal letter drawn up, stating to cease and desist harassing and contacting you, register it at your county court house (a modest fee to record about any document you desire), delivered by registered mail, or even better, served by the local sheriff (another modest fee).
This becomes a legal document. If Bozo turns out to be a stalker or just ignores your ‘keep away’ letter, it establishes what your intentions are and a reference date. It usually gets the attention of even the most inattentive, disrespectful jerk. And you keep a full step removed from interacting with him.
By bringing the matter to official attention, you make your own decision quite clear and public. Keep a copy, and re-read it if things start to feel unreal.
Glad your message is working for you.
Tulipa August 21st, 2008, 7:15 am
I wish my rational 5am person would deal with this guy. At 5am I know the truth about him and feel strong to go on with my no contact then at some reasonable hour of the morning my rational thinking goes out the window and is replaced with denial and texting fingers.
I agree that if it is the only way to stop all contact is to actually type it and send it then it is for the best if you want these guys gone.
I have written a no more contact letter but have kept it to myself so far I know how weak I have been and I only get to day nine. I have never said to my EUM I don’t want anymore contact because I was unsure I could stick to it. So if I can get over day 9 then I might be in with a better chance. Part of me thinks just get on with it stop playing your games (meaning me) go out and get on with life. He really doesn’t deserve an explanation.
I hope you are going well still Karen and I hope to catch you up in my no contact,
SuzieQ August 21st, 2008, 2:27 pm
Brad, I think that is a little extreme, don’t you? Besides, my ex EUM was a cop. I didn’t wish to get him in any trouble at work. I told him it was over and not to contact me again and he didn’t. I think it is better to tell them not to contact you again then to just initiate no contact on your own without letting them know whats going on and then just ignoring them when they call or text. That almost seems like some sort of revenge or something. I have always been one to favor clean breaks. Just my opinion.
Brad K. August 21st, 2008, 3:00 pm
SusieQ, I agree, your approach works.
My concern was for the guys that aren’t honorable and disciplined. I figure you get one good shot at shutting things down for good. In your case, he heard your decision and accepted it. If he hadn’t, though, you might be facing what a lot of others face - he won’t take “No!” for an answer. Sending stronger and stronger messages just prolongs the agony, and he still won’t get the message as long as you stay polite, and discrete — and polite and discreet let him keep playing games.
If he hasn’t been responding to your polite and discrete communication, then you have to find a way to bar him from pestering you, one that will get his attention and alert others that you consider him a problem. Whether you are fighting for your life, or for a chance to live for the rest of your life, the lawyer / registered letter route keeps your emotions away from his manipulations.
Karen August 21st, 2008, 4:59 pm
My EUM has not contacted me since the email thus far. If I had just tried to ignore him he would have continued texting/ emailing me thinking I was playing hard to get. I had to spell it out and make it clear that it is over. Whenver I feel sad that I miss him, I just remind myself of all the times (85%) that he blew me off. Flirted with other women in front of me. Treated me like he was doing me a favor by even paying me attention. I am thinking you know what- damn, I am a decent, attractive woman and who the heck needs that crap! I decided to quick selling myself short in life and treat myself with love and respect. That includes being with a man who loves and respects me. You have to stand up for yourself in this world and that includes standing up to someone who disrespects you. You can’t change people but you can choose who you have in your life.
Karen August 21st, 2008, 6:02 pm
Just another thing to think about, you set the standards for yourself what you will and won’t tolerate from someone. There is nothing wrong with setting standards for yourself and it will save you time when someone fails (or does not even come close) to meeting your needs. I even told my EUM over and over what I was looking for and he said the same thing to me which is- “I am just out to have a good time and am not looking for something serious”. Well, I said I am looking for something long term and there is nothing wrong with that. No ambiguity. I think it is best to be upfront. You don’t have to be overbearing but you also don’t want to waste your time on a “playah”
Tulipa August 22nd, 2008, 4:17 am
Funny how these men make you feel as though their time is so precious and you should be grateful for every second they have sacrificed in order for you to spend time in their presence. I used to Little Miss Available but toward the end I stopped being so available and he so quickly moved on but at the same time not wanting to “lose me” .
I guess I have created my own confusion here and again it is my responsibilty if I say hey ..etc.
I still think Karen and Susie q have done the right thing and for Susie this appraoch worked and its all ended and so far for Karen its working too so good on them for the direct approach.
Tulipa August 23rd, 2008, 1:09 am
I just want to adda question here, Was it us who felt their time was precious or did they do something in particular to make us feel that way? I just ask because if we aren’t feeling too good about ourselves then maybe it easy to get this impression whereas if we felt better about ourselves then maybe we wouldn’t haven’t felt like they were sacrificing their time in order to spend time with us?
Brad K. August 23rd, 2008, 2:16 am
Tulipa, just a guess, but time is precious. Anytime someone, man or woman, interrupts their routine, there is discomfort, often anxiety.
The problem with an EUM is that they don’t see themselves as living in a couple - they are perpetual daters, they are living a single life - they vehemently defend their ‘own’ time. So most of the time they are with a woman (unless within an hour of orgasm or the hope of an orgasm), they are breaking their preferred routine to do a favor for the woman. It turns around for a some women, too, that feel they ‘grace’ any guy with the gift of their presence - and expect to be adequately gifted and attended to. But that is another story for another blog.
What I think a healthy couple should have, is a belief and a feeling that they share a home, that the oth