There are two big questions that readers have grappled with recently: How do I let go of the guy that didn’t reciprocate my feelings? How do I let go of the guy that I didn’t actually have a relationship with?
In essence, how do you let go of a one-sided attraction — a relationship that doesn’t exist?
For a start, you can’t ‘break up’ when there isn’t a relationship to break up from. The only person you have to break up with is you (and your overactive imagination and feelings).
The issue here isn’t really about ‘him’ (or her), as they’re not really part of the equation when you’ve created an illusion rather than keeping your feet in the real world. The issue is about you not wanting to let go of your feelings, your obsession, your drama.
There are four key reasons for finding yourself needing to let go of a relationship that doesn’t exist:
You are a queen of projection.
You choose men that cater to your own negative self-fulfilling prophecy and that are likely to leave you ‘crushing’ on them. And then you project the feelings you think you have onto them and assume that they should feel and perceive similarly to you. You want them to notice you, to see you in the way that you see them. But the majority of this stuff is in your head, so you haven’t communicated with them. And then you wonder why they haven’t reciprocated your feelings.
You think that your feelings are big enough for the two of you.
In losing all sense of proportion, you become so consumed by how you feel that you want them to be swept up in all the love you have to give. You hope that one day he’ll catch up to how you feel and return it. Trust me, they don’t.
You don’t actually want to be in a relationship and are emotionally unavailable.
Living in a dream world feels safer than the rejection you fear in the real world. In choosing men who are aloof and unlikely to be interested, you avoid having to be hurt in the way you fear. Instead, you build sandcastles in the sky in your mind and then feel rejected by your own daydreams. In reality, you need some sort of inspiration for these illusions, and he’s not a part of your life.
You don’t want to let go.
As many of us have discovered, even if it’s the most toxic thing to continue feeling as we do or to be involved with someone, we continue. It’s a bit like “I’ve started, so I’ll finish” but also because even when there is nothing, or it’s crumbs, we don’t want to let go. It’s the “some crumbs is better than no crumbs” mentality. We don’t want to get real with ourselves in case we find that we have something difficult or painful to look at. We don’t want to admit that we’re often creators of our own pain, and we certainly don’t want to admit that we’re letting go of something that didn’t exist (or that didn’t exist to the degree we imagined).
Remember: it’s a bit difficult to make someone accountable for something that’s a grand illusion in your head when you could be holding them accountable for real behaviours. Likewise, you can’t wonder why someone isn’t being and feeling what you want them to when they’re not part of the relationship [in your head].
These men become the inspiration for our latest round of feelings. They contribute a little at the beginning, and then we just take it from there. We refuse to acknowledge whether they are there or not and whether they’re acting in line in with the image in our mind, and if not, why not.
Any misery you are feeling is, for the most part, your own creation. That’s not to say that there might not be some shadiness on their part such as taking advantage of your feelings, but it’s critical to compassionately acknowledge that keeping your feet in reality hasn’t been high on your agenda. You’re swimming in illusions.
Due to focusing on the picture in your head, you haven’t heeded signs that you need to get real.
In fact, the object of your affections may have no clue about your interest. Or if they do, and have expressed their lack of interest, you’ve switched to unreciprocated feelings mode. You’ve hovered, hoping that they’ll finally “see” you and catch up with your feelings.
It doesn’t matter what they feel; you’re only interested in your feelings and them being matched.
The thing is, from the moment that you recognise that 1) your feelings aren’t reciprocated and/or 2) that you’re not in a relationship [with them], your body and mind will try to communicate this to you. If you’re still obsessing and trying to get them to reciprocate over an extended period of time, it’s a sign that you’re ignoring your intuition and fear.
It’s one thing to have a crush. And it’s another to crush yourself in a self-destructive pursuit of pain. And then blame it on someone else.
If you’ve made the choice to continue loving and chasing this person based on illusions while you wait for crumbs or nothing at all, you’re on an avoidance mission.
It’s like you want to hide away on these self-created feelings of rejection. You think there’s no risk if you’re not in a real relationship.
Sometimes, a person can mislead us to believe that they feel more than they do. That said, in situations where you need to let go of a relationship that didn’t exist, it tends to be that you were crazy about this person and didn’t want to let the feelings (or the fantasy) go.
You’ve decided that you want and love him/her. And to hell with it, you’ll find a way to show them that they should notice and love you too. You’re gonna ride this imaginary donkey of love till it collapses.
As humans, we tend to behave as if our feelings create an automatic IOU.
In unhealthy relationships and/or where fantasy is present, we love without any foundation for love. And then we refuse to opt out. We don’t want to let go of the fantasy or the illusion and get real so that we confront our issues
If you’re trying to let go of a relationship that didn’t exist, it’s a message from life that you’re in pain. You’ve engaged in self-destructive behaviour and repeatedly created a rejection situation for yourself, and then wondered why you’re in pain. Yes, it’s hard to admit that you have made a series of decisions that led to this juncture, but recognising it is the beginning of healing.
The only way that these situations end is when you end them. You don’t need to say anything. In all honesty, the other party might be a touch confused if you told them it was “over”. And if they’re shady, they’ll just try to capitalise on your admission. Don’t go there.
- Stop calling, chasing, and texting.
- No more seeing a bread loaf when there’s barely a crumb.
- Stop waiting, hoping, and projecting.
- Stop the madness. That’s the madness of thinking that this is what you have to settle for: an illusionary relationship.
Stop creating drama and then wondering why you are miserable. The truth is, when you don’t feel worthy of better, you create drama to keep yourself down. It doesn’t have to be this way. I know — I used to do it myself.
Commit to being in the real world.
Take things at face value. This means when (s)he doesn’t call, it’s because they don’t want to speak with you. It’s not because they’re waiting for you to make a move. This isn’t chess!
When you don’t hear from them for months, it’s not because you did something wrong. It’s because you are not in a relationship. Whilst you’re daydreaming your life away, they’re out there living theirs.
If you spend your time, energy, effort and emotion wanting people that don’t want you and then obsessing about why they don’t want you, your life will be at a standstill.
If you point blank cannot accept that:
1) it’s mostly in your head,
2) if he doesn’t want you then it’s time for you to start not wanting him, and 3) you’re creating your own drama and pain
…then you must at least take responsibility for where you are right now. It doesn’t need to be about blame and shame. Acknowledge that this is a choice that means that you don’t have to be, do or deal with something.
Talk to a professional.
Working with a therapist or counsellor not only gives you professional support but also helps you to get grounded in the present. Take it a step, a day, at a time. Use this experience as the watershed moment that’s highlighted the need for you to address old pain, fear and guilt.
But if you are at that point where you want to and can do something about this, don’t overcomplicate things. When you let go of a relationship that doesn’t and didn’t exist, you have that power and are in the driving seat of what happens to you. Don’t make out like (s)he has to do something to end this. It’s you that needs to take the step. By bringing you back to the real world and gradually rejecting the fantasy, you will gain perspective. You will get to the heart of why you are engaging in this self-destructive behaviour so that you don’t go back. You will heal.
Your thoughts?
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AMEN…. that’s all that can add to this. Fantastic post.
It’s like my ego takes comfort knowing there is “something”, rather than “nothing”. Even though that something is actually nothing other than fear and hiding from reality.
I think an important point that you make is that emotionally unavailable, attracts emotionally unavailable. You get exactly what you’re looking for.
I think it would also be interesting for you to write a piece entitled something like, “when the tables turn and you realize you’re the assclown”- as I have recently found myself doing to a guy what was done to me. Now I am walking in the shoes of my assclown, all the while knowing what it’s like to play fallback. Ugh.
Always love your insights NML.
Bitc, if you are aware that you are behaving like an assclown why don´t you stop? What do you get out of stringing this guy along?
And do you think he is right in thinking he has a relationship with you?
How do you know when you are over your xEUM? I have been asking my friends and they tell me that I will just know. Personally, I feel like I am over him…I understand my root issues that have caused me to go after EUM, I know what I want from a relationship and I know that I deserve it…but, given my track record of choosing EUM, I am afraid to date again! Since we have been told that we have been carrying baggage from our past with us into relationships, how do we know when we have successfully tossed all that unwanted baggage?
Bitc,
you know how it feels to be rejected, how can you do it to someone else?
What a timely post. Last night I was reading a long saga that lasted over several months where the gal seemed to think she was in a relationship with a man. She wanted to marry him.
As I read I couldn’t even see that he was in a relationship with her at all.
He didn’t reply to her texts or even answer the phone when she called.
He blew her off for Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year’s, and Valentine’s Day.
I didn’t see anywhere where they even saw each other regularly and as I read on she said this has been going on for 5 years!!!!!!
It seemed like the only time he called her was when he wanted her to do something for him or a booty call.
It was sad that she thought she was in a relationship when in reality there wasn’t one at all.
The mind playing tricks on us sure is a powerful thing.
Coralie
In my opinion, you know you are over him when you see the unhealthy dating pattern; realize it was never a real relationship; understand that the feelings you had were really the drama; not real, true feelings of intimacy… therefore, you understand the only person you have to get over is yourself; create a vibrant, fun loving life and when you are at peace and joy with yourself; you will know and that is when you will attract the right partners to you. If you think that you aren’t ready to date; you probably aren’t. If you are afraid (which is understandable) it means you haven’t built up a level of trust with yourself but you are on the way there… I know I am over these guys because I remember (how pathetic) I used to think “what if I run into them somewhere” and get all excited to try to prove that they were missing something; because I was attracted to them, etc… but now, I could never make pretend that we are friends, will ever be friends, they are out of my life, they taught me to grow and therefore they are strangers that I can overlook. There was a good saying I seen somewhere, they say “first you have to fall in love with yourself” and I wholeheardely agree with that…
Thank goodness I’m getting quicker at not being stupid for as long 🙂
Gina
Thanks so much for your post! I really enjoyed reading it. Yes, it is sad for me to admit that there was never real intimacy between us. No real emotional connection. But, I have definetly grown since then. I am very happy in my life. I feel so free and at peace with myself, my family of origin (they were at the root of my problem), my xEUM…I have forgiven everyone, including myself. But, my gut still tells me I am not ready to date yet…I guess I just have to be patient… 🙂
Wow, NML, this post really hit the nail on the head for me! I have been an avid follower of this site for a long time, taking in all sorts of information/advice for my “situation” which I realise today hasn’t really even existed (except in my vivid imagination of course).
It came as a complete shock to me a few days ago when I realised that perhaps I was emotionally unavailable myself. So bitc, I agree with you “emotionally unavailable attracts emotionally unavailable”.
However, in my own defence, I must say, he has dangled the proverbial carrot in my face for months, but, quite foolishly, I have hung around, hoping, wishing, praying and grasping at the crumbs as though they were gold nuggets…sigh. I’m trying to go “cold turkey”, but I see him frequently and NC is not a possibility.
Oh when will the lessons be learned????
Funny Girl, why is No Contact not a possibility?
Astelle, we work together. So whilst I can limit my contact, NC is not possible. And I notice that I do so well when I haven’t seen him for a few days, but once I do, wham bham, I’m analyzing everything he said, and how he behaved, our interactions and it’s two steps back!
How long has this “relationship” been going on? Is he married?
Do you see him at work only or did you see each other outside of work?
I’m embarrassed to say, one year and only at work. He’s done daft things like ask me for my email, mobile number and added me on FB but never used it. I texted him once, he did not respond and I never texted again. I’ve never called him.
He’s told me many times that he’s not dating, hasn’t met the right person, etc. and I can say with almost complete certainty that he is not married. But there is definitely something going on bcs that line in the sand is there.
OMG this is me, every single word applies to me!!! How sad and embarrassing!
It’s such a timely article because I just messed up again recently with the EUM and the hardest part is for me to see the reality of my chasing NOTHING! Yet that is the very crux of the problem,so I need it hammered into me, or else I will never allow myself to let go.
WONDERFULLY written, Natalie-this is truly gonna inspire and guide me to wake up to the reality of my situation. It’s really frickin hard though, to not dwell on how deliberately obtuse I’ve been. What was I thinking?
I totally knocked myself out for YEARS and it was ALL IN MY HEAD! Ack! What I thought was exciting and dramatic only had a tiny bit of substance for a couple of months at the beginning. I’m just amazed that I have kept it going and have tried to revive and ignite those feelings, while completely denying that there was no substance to it…
Wow. This post really hit home for me too. The sad part is… what made me end the relationship was when he asked one of my friends to lie to me. She was hurt and that pissed me off. That’s when I told him he’d gone too far. Not when he continued to hurt me…
I am starting counseling now too. I find that I’m not happy unless I’m loving someone… even if that love is unrequited. And that is no way to live. Thank you for this wonderful insight.
T’s last blog post..Music to remind you… all is as it should be
Thank you .. When he doesn’t call its because he doesn’t want to speak to you … needed to hear that ..
Funny Girl, I so hate to say this, there is nothing going on. He is just enyoing your attention, an ego stroke, that is how I see it. He never made a move to see you, I am sorry, can you please ignore him and move on?
Blackgnat, I so hope that this post will make you move on.
Funny,
I agree with Astelle. I don’t understand why you would think there’s “something going on?’ He hasn’t done anything to indicate that he was interested or else he would have asked you out. Ask your male friends what they think , I believe they will be able to clarify things for you.
Astelle, I think it will-it really resonated with me.
It’s going to be my touchstone.
BG,
I wish you would speak to someone professionally. It seems that your self-esteem and family issues will require more than what a website can provide.
Wishing you the best!
Dear NML,
Realistic post.Probably it has been written to make women like me understand the futility of illusionary relationships.I think I see the difference between how one should react and otherwise.Ideally when you see that a relationship is not working for any reason whatsoever,you take stock of the situation and move on as quickly as possible.When you keep sitting and thinking about it,overanalysing things,wondering why things did not happen in a certain manner and then feeling sad about it,all the while knowing that you are being irrational,it is then that you have a problem.Who knows this better than me.I have been in this situation for some time now.For the last 2 years I have been putting myself through a lot of trauma over a man who has never reciprocated my feelings the way I would have liked him to.And he never gave me any false hopes either.I am the one who is suffering to let go of him.It is probably because of my inflated ego that I don’t want to give up and move on.Instead I keep holding on to whatever crumbs he keeps throwing at me…and hoping that he would come back someday.It took me a long time to understand that the problem is not with him but with me.I keep reading these articles here,I know that I am in the wrong and need to break this unhealthy thought pattern but frankly,I find it very difficult.There are times when the urge to call him is really strong.My therapist has told me that the more I stay in touch with him,the more my progress will be delayed.I have been through similar situations before,but this time it is taking a long time for me to heal.I knew right from the beginning that this man would not be able to feel for me the way I feel about him.Still I kept pursuing him like a mad woman using all the tricks in my kit.This inability to see reason..Wonder why it had to be like this.Somebody told me that first,I should learn to forgive myself.May be I am angry with myself for doing these things like pursuing him,giving him so much of attention.May be there is a lot of pent up anger with myself..I need to tell myself that it’s okay and need to move on..If only like were that easy….
Dear NML, Thank you for this. It’s PERFECT. I rode the imaginary donky of love… I have had these so-called relationships before. They produce so much pain. The man I was in a non-relationship with actually started to talk to me about the woman he DID like, the woman he did CRUSH on… and it was not me. I was, no joke, surprised. I really thought we were building up to a relationship. But thinking back, I was always having to chase after him, I was doing all the work. That was about half a year ago, and it went on for about six months. I’m glad it’s over. Now when I see him I don’t feel any attraction. Actually, looking back, a lot of his behaviour toward me was seeking an ego-stroke. He is emotionally unavailable. THAT’S WHY I WAS INTERESTED… because if a real, healthy man were to show up… I’d crumble. Yes, I was riding the imaginary donky of love… and it collapsed (love that image NML), my donky was paper mache (it crumbled quickly)!
What do you do when you think you may have spent the last 10 years waiting for a man? I have got on with my life, dated other people etc but it’s still him I feel I want. I am about to tell him but think it will probably end the friendship. He was my first love. I did a long post about it on a blog about childhood sweetheart traps but I think it was an old post so no-one replied. It’s just really hard to think I may have wasted all this time without even realising I was doing all of these things.
Astelle, while it does burn to hear it, I agree with you – this is about an ego stroke/attention. I feel quite foolish that it took me so long to understand that.
Gaynor, as in many of these types of situations, it’s the small things that made me think something was “going to happen”. We have had endless conversations, hours at a time where he has taken an interest in every nuance of my life, shown signs of jealousy if ever I have given another guy attention, played hot and cold, etc. It was enough to create hope, albeit false.
Anyhow, I’m starting therapy next week as well so I’m really hoping to work on my self-esteem issues.
I recently read a great little sign aimed at school children and it said Character Matters! Integrity, Respect, Responsibilty, Courage, Empathy, Fairness, Honesty, Optimism, Initiative and Perseverance. Funny, I hold myself and those close to me to these character traits, if only I did that with the men I choose.
Oh Astelle, I have tried to ignore him in the past, but somehow that just makes him more keen (I guess he misses the attention) and he’ll work doubly hard to be in my face and space.
I think it might be best to acknowledge him (also keeps things professional), but absolutely nothing beyond that.
WOW!!! Boy did I need to read this! It was exactly what I needed to hear. I can’t be unrealistic and pretend that I will end my non relationship today but it sure makes me realize how stupid what I’ve been doing really is. My UEM is married (so am I) and I have projected all of my “love” onto him. Even though he does definitely reciprocate, its way too hit or miss. Its much more me than him. We can talk for 3 hours some days and 5 minutes the next, and then it starts hurting again. I think I must be out of my mind to do this to myself. I can see how totally emotionally unavailable I AM TOO! wow, so much good information here.
Funny,
I wish you the best with the therapy.
I totally agree with last paragraph. Funny I thought the ex had these characteristics until I truly came to know him and he bailed on the relationship.
Bella, what do you guys talk about for 3 hours?
I think what it’s really about are women latching on to *feelings*. They don’t want to let go because perhaps they’re letting go of a particular feeling or emotion that they’ll miss. For example, if a particular guy made them feel happier or younger or more successful, they latch on to keep those feelings strong.
NML, perfect timing. I wish I didnt even have to say that at all. But once again I sucked myself back into my nonrelationship – under the faulty belief that it was somehow “different” this time.
Funny, instead of seeing things more clearly as time goes by, I get more confused. While on the one hand, this guy never, ever says anything has changed, he ACTS like things have changed. The whole “actions speak louder than words” is not correct? He is an EUM and I’m a EUF – no doubt and this has become a cycle for both of us.
He has said he loves me. He has been kinder. He has included me in things and asked to be included in things in my life as well. We are both more “careful” with each other. I see him now more than I’ve ever seen him. We are getting along better than we ever have. And yet …
Just today (i told you, your post was timely) he is lamenting to me how he is depressed b/c all of his friends are getting married. He says, this is supposed to be a transition time in his life. Okay. So how am I supposed to take that? The woman he said he would NEVER marry? Passive-agressive? What?
So I immediately said – hey, if you want to move on with your life dont act like you are having to “settle” for me. If I am someone you have to settle for, I dont want any part of this anymore.
What did he do – ignored it. Completely ignored what I said and changed the subject – made it into a joke. I called him on that too and he suddenly had to leave.
Something is definitely wrong with me that I cannot let go of this man. I am not even angry at him anymore. I just feel defeated – self defeated. bleh.
annied, how old is this guy?
He’s 35 … and I’m 11 years older, which he likes to throw in my face occasionally (just kidding, of course). I am divorced and have kids too.
Something I have noticed that I have done in the past, and see so many others doing through what I read is; we may value integrity, respect, honesty, etc., and that we hold ourselves to those traits, when in actuality when we are engaging in this fantasy behavior we are only in denial that we are in fact living up to and upholding them in ourselves, because if we were, we wouldn’t be living in the fantasy to begin with, or engaging with these types of men.
Best Wishes
searchingwithin’s last blog post..Love Means Never Having to Say Your Are Sorry, Or Does It?
Engagement,
But isn’t that in the early stage? After the honeymoon period has ended it becomes a depletion of your self-esteem with all of the rejection and excuses, all you feel is devalued.
What I don’t understand is….and this is mostly about myself…is that I know for a fact that if my exboyfriend, whom I am still in close contact with, would become a major part of my life again, which is never going to happen, but if he did..I wouldn’t want him. He is not someone that I would date again, but I continue to keep him in my life. I can’t get away from our emails all day just used to pass the time quicker in between work and our Wednesday night outings for dinner. I have a life with other people and I don’t long for him at all but I can’t cut that cord…he isn’t hurting me anymore and I go out with other guys. Do you think its possible to find a balance that isn’t right or wrong with somebody?
Why is your ex boyfriend an ex boyfriend but you are in close contact? Why is that?
Gaynor, I am going to begin counselling next week with someone whom I hope can help me with my issues.
That, my friend, is a long story. This particular post would be about me but not about me with him. At least not anymore. I decided to quit labeling things and people in my life as good and bad and just made them well, things. This website helped me realize a lot of my issues and I realized that nobody does anything to you that you don’t allow them to do. If I put myself in front of him and asked him to be what I wanted him to be he would very strongly disappoint me. But if I put him in my life as nothing more than who I know he is…I am not disappointed. He is, and will always be by himself, it has nothing to do with me.
I can understand what loverandfighter means. I dont want to hate nore love nor think about nor ANYTHING with my xEUM. I struggle between– is it easier to be friends and let by gones be by gones and with whether I should remain distant and not remain friends if after all… this is someone who lied to me point blank to my face many times. I have been able to remain friends with x’s but only after several months have gone by and i am 100% emotionally unattached to them. Perhaps loverandfighter if you feel that you no longer want him and can maintain this contact than to each his own. I guess I would just make sure that you do not have any underlying intentions that even you may not be conscious of.
With regards to this post…. about letting go of a relationship that doesnt exist…. I feel I fall into the “misled” category. He approached and showed interest in me… and I fell for it hook line and sinker. But I was going by what his “words” were rather than also making sure there were actions to back it up. I dont think I was living in a fantasy though?? I was perhaps naive to have believed him…and yes– i certainly wanted to being that I felt I was in love with him… but this was only after he stated he wanted the same things, a relationship, that he loved me etc… etc… In fact, I remember asking and being very clear about his intentions and him telling me (now looking back) only exactly what he knew I wanted to hear but perhaps not being sincere. In fact, when we broke up he had the audacity to not take any responsibility for having even his share in what got me believing that we were having a relationship. In the end, if I hadnt broken it off,,,, he would have continued to lie and string me along for as long as he could all the while claiming that he loved me and wanted to be with me. I dont think I was living in a fantasy? How does this apply to my situation (if it does)?
Karen, I don´t think this completely applies in a situation where the EUM is saying he is in love with you. I mean, if you have to wonder if you are not imagining things when someone tells you he loves you or spends 5 nights a week with you then you might be a bit too introspective. No point in driving yourself nuts.
You maybe could have been more attentive to other signs (actions) or be aware that you don´t project all your hopes and dreams on a guy but I don´t think you are being delusional in thinking you have something going on when someone reciprocates in that way.
Every Post I read is amazing…when I am feeling a little down about my situation I get on line to this site. EVERYTHING that is written makes so much sense when I look back at most of the aspects of my recent relationship. I STILL NEED HELP – A DRUNKEN CALL FROM HIMS STILL HAUNTS ME It ended two months ago and I am just feeling like myself. Long story short…he relocated for a few months…during that time he went away with his kids to visit his family (divorced) He called me from the vacation a few times…but one night in particular he called started spilling his guts about how much he missed me, cared for me and that he could trust me and he wanted me to move with him and so on and how wonderful I was blah blah blah….really great stuff. Then he got a little out of hand with suggesting I send a photo of “myself” – and I immediately SQUASHED that by being shocked – then telling him he was with the wrong girl if he ever could even think that I would do something like that. Well – after the apology and remorse he showed I realised he must’ve been drinking. Three days later he called me told me that he missed me and wanted to see me and let’s plan a visit. I asked him In a nice way WTF are you really thinking here? You are hot and cold, you say one thing and dont back it up… and I brought up the ‘photo’ and asked him to tell me what the hec is really going on…after more remorse and more missing you and sorry I was drunk I do not remember …I am so embarrassed…I would not disrespect you …I do not remember I was drunk…after talking it out we get back to a normal conversation…we confirm we are fine…and we would see each other in a few days…then…ICE COLD never returned calls or texts. I was devastated….Yes, all the workings of a PLAYA or Ass clown…BUT did I freak him out by being too tough? and the main question: I always thought “with wine is truth” – was he baring his soul and I thew it back in his face?
Me and my ex broke up 3 months ago and we stayed in contact.He would iniciate it and text me everyday and later we went to a email every 3 days.We keep talking as if we were still together and we had sex too.After a while I cut the sex because I though it wasnt right to keep doing it being broke up and since that day he lost interest in the contact.He wont iniciate it and he wants to do it whenever we fell like it now.Even so I still kept chasing him with emails and texts ( I dont know why I still even bother) that doesnt get reciprocated.That post was great to open my eyes and show me I should just let go and stop creating myself that bad experience.
NML – I just cant thank you enough!!! This is the most wonderful article!!!
My ex contacted me yesterday via msn, asking me if I am still talking to him…I didnt answer, I must stop this madness somehow. This article “open” my eyes and I realised that my “relationship” was my imagination, for him I was just a booty call:-(
TIME TO GET REAL!
I just found this site about a month ago, and I am just so consistently amazed at the insightfulness of all of these postings. At the risk of sounding totally cliche and kind of cheesy, this particular entry really made me feel less alone. This is my first comment on this site.
I spent the last year and a half of my life with an exceptionally devastating EUM, who I have managed no contact with for the last month (and oh what a hard month this has been…). This was the strangest EUM relationship I’ve ever had, in that we were completely emotionally co-dependent with one another (best friends), and slept next to each other naked almost every night, but he rarely if ever wanted to initiate sex with me, as he thought that might complicate things because he “wasn’t ready for a relationship”. I’m an attractive 28 year old woman, so this utterly confused and devastated me. I wound up thinking about sex 24/7, and feeling very needy and desperate when I was with him. My past EUM relationships had been very focused on sex, so this was very different, and even more damaging. I’m not sure if anyone else out there has experienced this kind of EUM relationship, but it’s very painful to go through it. I just want other women out there to know that they are not alone, and that there are many of us here who completely sympathize with whatever you’re going through.
Although my “relationships” (I use that term loosely, because a relationship with an EUM is a very one sided ordeal) have all been with EUMs, it has only been until recently that I have learned to acknowledge that I am CHOOSING these guys in the hopes of playing out a fantasy that if I’m just a little bit better, a little bit prettier, a little bit funnier…he will choose me. We all know how that works out.
About three weeks ago, I met a man (a real, emotionally available, interested attractive man) who is over the moon about me. I know…I know…I’m not ready for him yet. It breaks my heart that I’m still getting over this ass clown.
I realize that unless I do something drastic and take my relationship patterns by the balls, for lack of a better term, I will never be ready for a man who wants me. So I have come up with a plan. Readers, I would love to hear your thoughts:
If any of you are like me, you have about 5-10 ass clowns that you used to date on your Facebook “friends”. Although you may not communicate with them very often, you see their status updates. You look at them in pictures smiling with other girls. You look at the girls who commented. Some of these ass clowns you may have dated ten years ago, but there is still a sick pull.
I’m putting it upon myself to “de-freind” every single guy I’ve ever dated, slept with, or had feelings for on Facebok in an attempt to really truly move forward in my life, and not be tempted to look at the past. I will have a very hard time doing this with some of these guys, as I think they think that we’re “friends”. In reality, I realize I am playing out my “outsider looking in” fantasy on these social networking sites, and I need to clean up my life.
I’ll let you know how it goes!
To sum it up: Never put a question mark where God has put a period.
Love,
I don’t understand why you would want to be friends with someone who continually lied, disappointed and treated you poorly. This is not a friend. It seems that by hanging on to these guys for a friendship is still seeking validation from someone who did and may still treat you poorly. I believe you said he would still “strongly disappoint” you today, why would you settle for a friend that offers so little? Ladies, this has nothing to do with forgiveness but has everything to do with keeping toxic and emotionally unavailable people (minus the sex) in our lives. Not healthy!!!!
BG,
All the best!!!!!!!
@ Gaynor-thank you so much!
I will let you know what I find out about myself and will pass on anything that is beneficial to the community of women that are in pain..
Honeybee, You wrote
“This was the strangest EUM relationship I’ve ever had, in that we were completely emotionally co-dependent with one another (best friends), and slept next to each other naked almost every night, but he rarely if ever wanted to initiate sex with me, as he thought that might complicate things because he “wasn’t ready for a relationshipâ€. I’m an attractive 28 year old woman, so this utterly confused and devastated me. ”
I was in that same situation, ONLY I WAS MARRIED TO him. So, try not to feel like you are alone when you think no one else has been in that situation….. We did end up having two kids, but in the course of a 13 year marriage maybe had sex 15 times or so. (and I tried to get him to be interested, but failed…. over and over) (and I’m not ugly!)
It took me a long time to realize that this kind of relationship wasn’t really a marriage. I was spending my entire life trying to prove myself to be attractive to my husband while all of our years of life were racing by. His life, too, not just mine.
I’ve been out of the relationship for 9 years, and even my (now older kids) realize why their dad and I are not together. Our kids love us both, but they just can’t understand how we ever co-habitated! It was like being married to my brother or something like that. Not a good thing.
If you can, ust try to realize that, while sex isn’t everything in a relationship, it should be an important component, and a guy who isn’t interested in you in that way is probably not a good choice for a life partner.
Lisa,
That must have been very difficult and painful for you.
I’m curious if he was sleeping with other women or just has an unusually low libido?
Hey Gaynor,
Thanks for being sympathetic. Yeah, life was very painful, very empty, and lonely and sad. Thank God for the kids because that made life fun and I’ve enjoyed being a mother so much, so it didn’t all turn out bad. I’m just glad I don’t have to live with him anymore. I don’t hate him, so that made it even harder to leave… I don’t know if it was low libido with him… I don’t think he was cheating because he was barely ever able to get excited no matter what I did, he was very church driven, very much “man is the decision maker in all things” and mostly home when he was supposed to be… I used to pray that he’d cheat so then I’d have a legitimate reason to leave, but he didn’t, and I just had to get the courage to get out and get my self-esteem and sanity and a happy life back…. life has been okay, but it took years, and then 6 years after the divorce, I met the married AC and believed him and his “almost divorced stories” for over 2 1/2 years. I’m still trying to figure out why I let myself fall into that, but thank God I’m out!!! 3 full months of no contact now 🙂 I really thought I was in love. The married guy told me how much he loved me all the time and said he wanted to marry me, and it was so confusing, but sometimes when you’re in it, it is hard to see the cold reality of it all I love this site. I love what you write. How are your relationships with men now?
OMG! I’m and introverted azzclown! a covert narcissist if you will. I have been shaped and molded or rather “trained” to act out in ways that are not healthy!
I recently dabbled in a flirtatious tango with a man over the past month. We work in a large hospital setting… he on the finance side and me on the research end. Needless to say he was intriguing. Dark, mysterious, powerful and bingo… MARRIED! By the time of my discovery (he never hid it, I just didn’t see the signs like the gold wedding band on his dark gold skin… so it blended in geesh!) I already allowed myself to be sucked in. I guess I needed a bit of ego stroking myself.
I never wanted to engage in the possibility that I am emotionally unavailable. I feel like i have a disease of some sort. I should have ended our tryst from the onset, but goodness I found him so charming and alluring. I did kiss him and from then on it was goo goo gah gah for this bloke. Anywho, I went no contact on his hot/cold, ignore/acknowledge azz. My ig had to be done anyway, he is a married man, so it makes things so much easier on my emotional and mental state.
Yes, we must get it together ladies and gents. We will never have true love if we never look truth in the face.
Hi Lisa,
I think we were/are married to twins! NO kidding. I have been married for 31 years (!!) we have had no sex for 11 years…and I’ve tried EVERYTHING. Before this decade + dry time we very rarely had sex and I always initiated it. Always. I believe I married him because we were good friends (still pretty much are) and I was coming off a very abusive marriage. My husband was ”safe”. We also have 2 children (grown now) and I loved being a mom. He was an emotionally absent father….married to his computer. BUT still I stayed. I think my self esteem was/is so damaged that I felt/feel that no one else would want me. (thanks to lots of damage from 1st marriage and abusive childhood)
Any way….this brings me to the present….61 years old. Scared to grow old alone, but still very vibrant and alive…not ready to crawl into a rocking chair or anything like that. Husband with many health problems. A recent stroke and subsequent drugs (high blood pressure) have left him completely impotent. He’s as much as told me to just forget him ever being sexually active. (funny thing is…I even asked for him to help me masturbate….or even just touch me….NOPE, nada) Soooo…that’s where I am. Leave? he needs me for $$ … and he’s not too well physically, though he has returned to work. I sure would be perceived as the big ”poopy” in that case.
How did your children take the parting? Do you think, at 61 I should just try to be happy with the status quo? Would you? I so related to your description of the coldness, emptiness…lack of emotion in the relationship between you and your husband.
OH…to top it all off. I too had an emotional (mostly) relationship with a married asshole who I knew from my teen years. That’s how desperate I was for some ”touch” , for someone to tell me it wasn’t me, for someone to say I was desirable. Of course, as it turned out, he had ulterior motives having nothing to do with me.
You are much younger than I….and I wish you much love and happiness. You will find someone who can freely love you in return. I just know you will. I have read your posts here for quite a while and you seem like an extraordinarily kind, intelligent and loving person. Hang in there. This married jerk is a bump in your life. (as mine is) but they do serve to show us that we have so much to give. That we are not dead inside. Better days are ahead. Take care!
Blessings.
Lisa,
Thank you so much for writing about your experiences with your ex husband. It definitely helps me to hear that I’m not the only one out there dealing with that. There’s this expectation that men want sex all the time, but it’s not necessarily true– I think that emotionally and physically unavailable behavior often go hand in hand. Like you, I would be absolutely shocked if my EUM was seeing anyone else, as we spent nearly every night together. In the span of a year and a half, we probably had sex…5 times? It goes beyond low libido…I remember at the beginning of our relationship when his libido was through the roof. It was only when faced with commitment that he couldn’t get it up.
Good on you for 3 months of no contact with your married EUM. It’s such a positive step in the right direction! No need to beat yourself up over missing all of the signs. This is a learning process!
All I am saying is…I know me and I know my past and I just realized that I have been dating the same guy over and over and over again just in different bodies. Now, the way I see it is if I go all no contact with him…I am just gonna find someone else just like him, like I have always done. But now that I know the nature of my beast, it is easier for me to recognize the error of my ways. He has always been honest with me, I was the one not being honest with myself. I am seeing that by keeping him in my life its like I am getting tired of him on my own terms and its showing me that he isn’t everything I made him out to be.
Hi Lisa,
Glad you’ve moved beyond the AC. Has he tried to make any contact?. As you, I am so thankful for this site, the education I have received is invaluable and helps in every aspect of life, most especially with men.
Thanks for the compliment! Sadly, I haven’t dated. Pathetic, huh!!! Sounds strange but it is very difficult to meet datable men in NYC; seems to be an issue for most women and men I know . Very single city. I am definitely open and if the right one comes along wonderful, if not, then life is still wonderful. What about you?
Thank you, Thank you Thank you for this, I am downloading the book today, At least most of you were in longer”relationships” with these eum’s I am sitting here freaking out over a guy who “dumped” me after 2 dates, we got in touch a few weeks later, talked about how he was overwhelmed, and overreacted, moving forward, he said hed call, did call, and acted pissed off on his voicemail, that I didnt answer (I was in the bath) I returned his vmail, and I have not heard since, (one week) This am he turned his myspace to private, (of course I was looking 10 times a day) I feel so humiliated that my ego wont let this go, I am acting like I was married to the guy or something, my girlfriend even got mad at me yesterday cuz I was comparing this to her 6 year relationship.. can u say crazy town?? I m just grateful this site is here and I look forward to moving on with any shred of dignity i still have in tact. (If any one has any extra words of encouragement for staying the hell away, they would be appreciated!! All the best to all of us going thru this……
PS: Would luv to know others’ thoughts (if any) about the seeming OTHER perspective on this issue.. an e-book program I have seen advertised on the dating sites like Plenty Of Fish Cristian Carters, Catch him and Keep him?? Where can I contact host and where would be a more appropriate place for that question? Thanks! It seems to try to teach women how to become aware of there ” self sabatogeing behaviors” from a male perspective, I would like to know more, if I buy, its v. expensive, I also dont want to end up a man-hater either , this site is useful for getting over it I just want to be able to recognize male perspective as well..
@DD As the owner of this site, I just want to clarify whether you’re actually suggesting that the posts written on this site is about getting women to be man haters? Thankfully there are many readers that recognise that this is far from being that and thanks to both Gaynor & Karen for their great responses. Also I am in no position to recommend Christan Carter’s ebooks or site so it would be best to contact him directly if you have questions as this site has nothing to do with him and he has his own perspective. You have to decide what you want and what resonates with you. Thankfully, I have many readers who don’t consider this man hating – in fact…you’re the first to suggest it!
DD,
I think the literature and info provided on this site are about regaining self-esteem and understanding why we place ourselves in toxic situations- You cannot ‘catch’ a man until you deal with your own issues, or else you will be repeating the same scenario over and over.
I would be a little concerned over obsessive behavior after two dates.
NML, you said….”We’re back at the juncture again where we think that deciding that we love or feel something about someone creates an automatic IOU”.
This struck a cord because I think I gave myself in an effort to please the “clown” only to discover that he believed I was doing it because I wanted to….even if it did require coaxing or lying on his part. In the end, I’m the one responsible for what I give away (whether physical, emotional, or material). It doesn’t make recovery any easier but at least I know that I’m in control of what I give to others. And if I’m giving to someone for any reason other than “I want to….with no expectations in return” then I need to re-think my motives. Thanks for the insight NML
DD,
Gaynor is right. I would be more concerned about dealing with and understanding first, the underlying issues that makes us obsess about these types of men/relationships. I actually bought the Christian Carter tapes and all his “theories” on how to catch a man about three years ago (before I ever even knew this site existed) and before I realized that I was after the wrong advice. For women (and men) like us that tend to have bad relationship habits to start with (and yes– obsessing about a relationship over only 2 dates is considered a “bad” habit) I think we need to first work on ourselves and what makes us attracted to these types of relationships and “triggers” within us these insecure feelings that turn into the constantly checking our email, vmail, myspace accounts, etc..etc..etc… Also— why you are basing so much of your self worth on someone you only just met and have hardly spent any time with? You will find that underlying all of this is really a lack of self esteem and self love which is the deeper issue that needs to be addressed. If we really valued and loved ourselves… we would not be caring why the guy didnt call us back or what he is doing now or when he will call us next. We would simply “know” that these types of people are not worth our time especially if they are not recipricating so early on in the relationship. The focus needs to be turned away from “their perspective” because that is what gets us in trouble and gets us stuck. The questions you should be asking and working on is what is it about yourself that makes you continue to “want” someone whether either
a) they are no longer recipricating or
b) they have showed you in one way or another that they are not interested.
This may sound harsh at first……..but keep reading through the different articles and posts on this site and you will see what we mean. Christian Carter isnt going to help you with that. He is only going to tell you how much more accomodating you need to be to these types of men, or how you should position yourself so that he will “WANT” you more and you can manipulate this situation and this man to give you what…….. a CRUMB? Trust me, if this man is genuinly interested or likes you……. he will call you. If not, why would you want to know how to “GET HIM” to do it? You know rejection is hard for everyone, and I think we can all relate to liking someone or getting excited over the prospect of meeting someone new and the potential of something emerging from that, but when the other party is no longer reaching out, or for one reason or another doesn’t seem as delighted as we do, that is when we need to check ourselves and make sure that we dont start investing our time and energy into something that isnt really there. Its really not worth it and that is what we are trying to tell you. 😉
Karen,
You really hit the nail on the head!!!
I should have said earlier, that obsessing over anyone after any period is unhealthy!
Gaynor, no more contact from the ex MM, I sent him a note saying if he ever contacted me again, I’d get my friend who is a local sherriff involved. (The married guy was not a weirdo, and I’m not afraid of him, but I was sick of him popping in my life while he was still married while I was trying to get over him and move on). So, the threat worked. I hated doing it, but it worked. And NML’s advice to “mean it even if you don’t feel it yet” really helped.
Amy, I NEVER advocate divorce. I think divorce pretty much sucks whether your the person initiating it or the one on the receiving end… but for me, it literally got to the point where I just didn’t even want to get up in the morning…. sleeping in separate beds for the last 4 years, listening to my married girlfriends talking about how much their husbands want them and find creative ways in the bedroom, etc.., also my ex-husband didn’t want me to work outside the home, and we were so poor…. I was literally on the brink of feeling like I was losing sanity. So, I finally got brave enough to create a new life. It took about 3 years of really really hard work as I had to move, get a full-time job (after being out of the work force for a long time), find after school child care for my kids… but little by little I started finding that I was capable of taking care of myself and the kids really well without the added burden of a guy who just wan’t available for a real relationship. After the divorce and still, the dad took them every Saturday night and Sunday day because that was his church day, and the only day that he didn’t work, and I was okay with that arrangement. Now the kids are 16 and 19, so they come and go between houses as they please. They mostly stay with me, but the do love their dad, and I’m fine with that. He tries to pay child support, but his employment situtation is up and down, so it isn’t always consistant, but I’m making just enough money now that I don’t freak out when he can’t pay
If I can say something encouraging, (but it might sound really weird), a friend of mine whose situation sounds similar to yours, her husband was ill for a long time, and when they were 64 years old, he passed away. She stuck it out even though she thought often about divorcing. Immediately after his death, she joined a local dating site for older people, met a great, 70 year old man, fell in love, and they have been happily married for 3 years, and she always tells me that the short beautiful time they’ve had together has made up for all the rough years!
So, I don’t know what to tell you…. maybe ask your kids about it. Your husband has been very selfish (as was mine) to not listen to your needs and desires, and your kids are big enough to help and be your advocate. And I think there are ways to get the point across without just totally calling their dad a BIG DICK! (haha… not the best expression maybe)
I’m just about 46 years old, and I am not able to find a “normal” guy to date, but my pastor and some of my good friends (who I know are good judges of character) are keeping their eyes open for me. Until then, I’m pretty happy with my life. I could go on and on about the transition from the divorce until now and the journey, but this probably isn’t the place! Sorry so long.
Children do not a relationship make. Show me the scientifically based study, that had a broad sampling pool, and adjusted for personal opinion that there is the remotest bit of evidence that staying together for the, “children’s sake,” is actually a healthy choice.
I for one would like to say that my family would have been better off if my parents had not stayed married. While their is opinion after opinion about this, and religious attitudes and opinions abounding, show me the study that has been carried out that at least attempts to demonstrate that families might be better off by not staying together.
My own relationship issues stem from an unhealthy dynamic between my parents. Anyone who spends more than five minutes with them can tell you that. The bickering is non-stop. And while it isn’t loud and obnoxious bickering, it is very clear that the vortex created by each of my parents engaging without being connected is just ridiculous.
My reaction to this type of dynamic was to never bicker. Therefore, I kept too quiet when my needs were not met.
Who did I marry, a man whose parent’s didn’t bicker, but they in essence, lived separate lives.
How in the world would anyone think that ours would then be a happy marriage? Why did we get married? It is because it is what the culture of middle America expected us to do. I’m not going to deny that I loved him and I still do, but we are just not meant for each other, and neither of us seems to want to deal with the reality of moving on. What is that about? Couple after couple, when they are honest, repeat these same types of scenarios, over and over and over and over and over. Then, when pointing out that we do have choices, we all, including me, say, “Yeah, but, I’m staying in the relationship because ______________.”
As for asking your children as to their opinion: I don’t get that. That brings a third party into what should only be a dynamic relationship discussion. While it is the duty of the parent to take care of their child, it is not the child’s duty to take care of the parent in the world of romantic and love relationships. It is quite honestly asking children to choose, based on what may or may not reality.
Wow Lisa, that must have been eating away at your confidence as a woman. Have you ever considered if he might be gay?
Wow, Thanks, Gaynor and Karen,
Believe me , I am extremely concerned with my obsessive behavior after two dates, which is why I’m here.. i took myself out of dating for 2 years just recently because whether it was a 10 yr. marriage, 1 date, or 3 month relationship ALL of this is familiar. Absent father blah blah… was in therapy 6 years I am just so surprised and worried here because this is the first prospect I liked it took me by compete surprise, I thought the distance from the scene would have helped but it seemed to make it worse, I was out of practice, and forgot what was appropriate behavior, I came on really strong and (of course he came on strong) I was planning the wedding (figuratively) on the second date, and blowing hot and cold myself for the nonexistent 3rd date. I just thought I wasnt learning anything anymore by staying out of dating so i was “dipping my toe back in” apparently I immediately backflipped off the deep end. lol I appreciate your posts, they ring true and I get it about self care, self esteem etc. its just hard when every other area of your life is pretty much together but this one, would prefer to feel hopeful rather than jaded.. and i’ll try not to feel judged.. its hard that reaction was unexpected because I wont give someone Im not interested in a second glance and he came along and WHAMMO!! clearly I have a LOT of work to do.. This is helping, as well as the advice about the Christian carter thing. It reeks of “If only you were different/better/less insecure/ u could make it with these asshats. I appreciate the review. And no Im not so far gone that I dont see that he is not worth it, its more of a wtf seriously? again?? thing…. Ugh!!! And the hot sting of shame and rejection is upon me again, Thank goodness for this site!
Thank you Lisa. I really do appreciate your viewpoint here…I don’t think anyone who has not gone through the isolation and coldness in this type of marriage would completely understand. It does leave you feeling very empty.
As for MM ….. I am so happy for both of us that they are part of our past. My NC started in January after about a year of on and off failures on my part to stay away. I’m doing much better now.
You’ll meet someone….better late to a good relationship than soon to a bad one. At least we will both be wiser about our needs and what we are looking for in a relationship.
Thank you again for the response and the support. Means the world to me.
Truth Hurts, it really hurt for a long time, but now that I’m many years out of it, it just stings a little, but doesn’t wear me out mentally and physically, you know? And, other people have mentioned the gay thing, and I can’t tell yes or no, but I know because of his beliefs, even if he were gay, he wouldn’t do anything about it. I feel bad for him if that is the case. It is sad. He isn’t an evil bad guy, but just very distant and into himself.
Hi Elizabeth,
I liked your points, especially the part about there not being a study to show that sometimes divorce is better for the children….
If you were referring to my point about having Amy talk to her children and asking their advice, I don’t know if you realize her kids are older, adults who have their own lives now… I would never suggest talking to young kids who are still under the mom’s care, but I understand your point. In that case of the kids still being young, I wouldn’t bring that heavy stuff on the kids, either.
Hope you and your husband can figure it out. If I understood your post correctly, you’re still married?
Yes Lisa, we’re still married…31 lonely years. My children are 23 and 29….so not really children at all. (29 y.o. is married himself)
Thank goodness about 10 years ago (at age 50) I went back into the work force. (after being home w/kids and Alzheimer suffering mom). My husband is so anti gay that it does make me wonder. But, like you, I know he would Never act on it (if it is indeed a repressed desire).
Amy, if you get a chance, go look up and listen to the song “Alone in the Universe” from the musical “Seussical.”
It is sung by 2 characters in the play who are really different than the rest of the world and who feel so alone, but then they meet each other in an unlikely way and realize that they are similar and they are not alone anymore.
That’s you and I. 🙂 (In a normal, nice way) It is good to finally find someone who has walked in your shoes when you have felt so alone for so long.
Have a great weekend! I have to get off the computer and do “stuff.”
It wasn’t in response to your comment per se, but your comment did trigger my response.
Yes, I am still married, and yes, I was also involved with another man, while married. Thing is: Both are EUMs, but both are very different. My husband, mimimally so, but after years of the little things that I didn’t even realize I was missing, I missed. Hence, the separation. And, really, I got involved with the other guy when I had no intention of having any relationship until I got my own life figured out. I believe the other MM is actually an EUM who is a pretender. In other words, upon reflection, he mimicked my emotions. There is a whole pathology there, that really threw my radar off.
I am not at all defending my behavior, but I was separated while involved. Here’s the reality for me: Separation is just another term for indecision. I needed to clean up my own house rather than just removing myself temporarily.
As for the kids, I still say: keep them out of it. I have friends who are agonizing over what this might do to their children who are married with their own – who themselves are playing the guilt card – by saying, “But what about Christmas? They need you to be there.”
The adult children might, might visit their own parents a total of 8 days per year.
These cycles go on and on and on. The reason for my ultimately returning home: afraid to disappoint my parents. What is that about?
Amy, isn´t 31 years of loneliness long enough? Do you feel obligated to stay with your husband? Do you think your children, family and others will judge you if you´d leave? Are you scared to be alone? Do you feel you´ve made your bed and now you have to lie in it?
Maybe you should seriously look into these kind of questions. You don´t have to make a decision about leaving right now but you can make a decision to research your motives and options.
It would be a shame to spend the rest of your life feeling lonely… you sound like a great woman who has a lot of love left in here to give.
NML,
That is not what I am suggesting at all.. I did in fact read through older posts on different subjects and saw many comments to the effect of ” assclown scum one post said to hell with them all etc. It was the one with the bible quote… General negativities toward men(in my brief view) no doubt based on these painful experiences. Who wouldnt have them after what we feel weve been through, These are these posters’ perspectives and I do not in any way think this site is suggesting that victimish perspective , on the contrary, so far I have felt very empowered by everything I have read here.. I am considering purchasing your e book today in fact. Thanks for answering, I dont know what resonates with me so i was just inquiring, my gut tells me this is the way to go.. I am just simply wary of LOOKing for the “assclown in every guy I meet I would like to not be jaded and be able to see the decent forest ones for the eum tree ones:) and run away a little faster when it goes like this.. I feel I could as well as any deep psychological work that needs doing also refine my “skills” and eliminate anything I am doing to subconsciously sabatogue the process. I get that the OTHER perspective is that if we all werent so “emotional” and “needy” there wouldnt be a problem. That is exactly how I feel when Im obsessing so I admit the ads were inticing.. (and a self esteem downer!) haha
Everyones responses are much appreciated, soo much food for thought and way better than taking up mental real estate for that fixer-upper… All the best!
@dd,
I haven’t written on the blog in a long time (but do check in most days). This site is two pronged (imho). 1) It will help you recognize when an assclown is Really an assclown and give you the tools to deal with almost every situation (it has been invaluable for me) and EUM’s that maybe you didn’t have before to deal with such men;
2) The truth hurts. I will have to say (I am not speaking for everyone on this site) for me I had to look within as to what drew me to these kind of guys time after time and confront the issues I had. It has not been easy and opening old wounds, I cannot lie, hurts incredibly and has been a hard road to walk but it has opened my eyes to what has held me back from healthy relationships, not just with men but friends, family, etc.
If this situation, dating twice, falling in love, throwing yourself at someone and obsessing over it (one of my old habits) is a consistent theme it may be time to take a Good look at the past. If you can’t do it by yourself through journaling (my road block) or opening up to a good friend or family member, I would highly recommend a professional that you trust and feel comfortable enough with to spill your guts to and release whatever it is that is holding you back.
There are many people on here that have incredible insight on almost every subject NML writes about and can be a great support system for you to deal with the topics at hand, dealing with a history of hurt is another subject. Over time what you learn here Will be invaluable in the future. Sometimes it is us and not them!
Best of luck…Gail
Hi, everyone. I’ve been thinking about posting for a while, and this is the topic that most fits my situation. NML, thank you so much for your site. Your posts and the responses by all the people here are wonderful. I’m 47, no serious boyfriend in years, and finally decided to start dating again last fall. I fell completely for a charming, younger Facebook player who, I thought, was sincere–but really, it was my own inexperience with this kind of guy (as well as being completed “dickmotised”) that lead to my complete heartbreak. There were a lot of red flags, many ups and downs, and we only actually saw each other 8 times over 3 months. After he ignored me over Christmas for 3 weeks straight, I sent him an email wishing him the best. He responded with an apology saying that I was wonderful and that he never meant to hurt me but that he was afraid things were getting too serious. I thanked him, and was glad to have ended things on a nice note. Two weeks later, he texted me that he missed me and wanted to see me and then wanted to see me regularly–like, once a week! I actually thought that this was a great deal–so we got together, had our best night ever together–and what do you think? He never contacted me again! I emailed him twice–and that was 2 months ago. One sad note was that as we met on the street that night he was calling me on my cell. He never turned off the phone–so 2 minutes of our greeting and playful banter was captured on my voicemail. I’ve saved and resaved it for two months; but today, I’m letting it erase from the system.
I shed so many tears over this situation—and had to try to start getting over him all over again after I agreed to see him again. Looking back now, I see how ridiculous all this was–and how it was necessary for me to get a good jolt of reality. Now, I am able to start dating again with an eye for the red flags, a desire to take it slow, have fun and see things with clear eyes.
But I wouldn’t have gotten through this without this site. Some days and nights, the only thing that kept me from texting him “why, why, why did you do this to me?” was logging on to Baggage Reclaim. I see, too, that I did a lot of it to myself by not understanding the situation. Thanks to all of you…
This was a really helpful post. I have been involved with an EUM coworker for nearly two years. He is just 28 I am 35. Tons of hot and cold flashes. Boyfriend behavior but unable to commit. Though we have never officially been boyfriend and girlfriend. We go for periods of time of dating and when things become closest he vanishes. But still calls/texts/writes nearly daily, even then. (We do not always work in the same office) I feel like I am always on hold. The last episode was during a business trip where he wanted to sleep clutching one another every night but remain platonic. He tried initiating sex several of these nights then would quickly recoil. One night we became extremely physical, though he would not kiss me. This is the first time that has ever happened. Totally shocking and obviously not healthy or acceptable.
I asked him about it. And asked if he did not want to kiss me because of us or because he was seeing someone else.
It was because of us. He said he loves me so much and wants to do things that bring us closer together.
What I have witnessed in his behavior is big love and big fear.
It is possible he has been seeing other people all along. I have tried to do that for my own sanity. And in social situations he tries to interrupt any social interactions with other men that are potentially flirtatious.
I know I need to really move forward. Big time.
But there is a small part of me that keeps thinking with time and effort it will shift. Sometimes it does, then the rug is pulled out all over again. I am fearful if I move forward he will suddenly grow up and be ready. I know that is irrational. Just trying to acknowledge my fears so I can move past them.
Bryan,
It’s been almost two-years it’s time to move on. This guy sounds like he has A LOT of issues that will not be corrected anytime soon. He has shown you that he is not capable of being in stable relationship with his on/off again behavior but what really stands out is a complete lack of intimacy on any level.
I would not read too much into his perceived jealousy, if he wanted to be involved he would have stepped up to the plate long ago. Many of these men will come around when they feel that they are losing their fallback girls, as they will no longer have someone to stroke their ego or have sex with.
Don’t waste any more time with this fool!
Gaynor.
Thank you for your reply. I should clarify, over the past two years we have actually been episodically extremely (and functionally) intimate. And actually it was a very kinetic part of our connection. With all kinds of “I love yous” stirred in. But still, no commitment.
This last episode of sex/ no kissing was completely new. And totally shocking.
That said, yes, he does have a whole boatload of issues. I could write a book, in fact. But why waste my time.
Bryan,
Read your first paragraph once again. Just because you have sex does not mean there is intimacy in the relationship, intimacy comes when you commit yourself to someone else. There can be a billion “I love yous’ ” w/o the commitment it doesn’t mean much of anything.
Thanks Gail and everyone!
That was the cutting clarity I needed. Thank you, Gaynor.
Great post. I’m definitely guilty of making up relationships in my head. I recently experienced it and saw this pattern clearly for what it was. I have a friend that I have had a crush on for almost a year. He’s about 11 years younger than me. We get along great and he is a really good guy. Many of my friends thought he had a crush on me. Over the past few months I considered telling him but would always chicken out. Anyway, one night we were all out and had had quite a bit to drink and I decided to tell him. He had no idea that I had a crush on him.
End result is, we are still friends and get along the same way that we used to. However, he is not reciprocating my romantic interest. I left it with him that if he finds himself having similar thoughts to let me know.
Truth of the matter is, he doesn’t. I can tell he’s very flattered, and I know he likes me as a person. But he just doesn’t think of me in that way.
So, it’s disappointing, but, being realistic, I know that he and I wouldn’t be a good match as a couple. I’m not allowing myself to reach out to him right now so our interactions with each other occur when we run into each other or when he reaches out. That’s hard because in the past, before I had told him I had a crush on him, I could reach out to him and it would be fun to talk with him. But, I know myself and I know how I can chase men I like, and how I can read more into their actions or words because of my own feelings. And I want to change those behaviors in myself.
Do I regret telling him? No. If I hadn’t I might be keeping this fantasy potential relationship or crush in my head.
Sure it’s a shame that I seem to have lost my “buddy” at least for the time being, but I am not looking for a “buddy”. I am looking for and want someone to share my life with.
Letting go of relationships that don’t exist is tough to do, but I find once I’ve done it, life is just so much easier and pleasant. If you stop chasing after people that either don’t want you, are ambivalent about you or indifferent, you automatically feel better about yourself.
When you focus on the people that want you, like you and want to be with you, you feel better and are more apt to attract someone who truly wants to be with you. I think (and I am only now just beginning to realize the full power of this), if you spend your time chasing after something or someone that you can’t have or doesn’t want you – you are creating an image of yourself that says to people “I don’t think I’m good enough, I don’t like myself very much”.
Two other men I met this winter fizzled out. Normally I would have accepted their crumbs or engaged in a chase after they stopped being interested or it was obvious that they were “lukewarm” about me. Or, at minimum, I’d beat myself up and wonder what I did wrong. This time, I have just accepted it and moved on with my life.
For lent, I gave up being jaded about men and relationships. I have to say – it’s helping me. Instead of getting depressed from romantic disappointments, I merely just say to myself “it just wasn’t meant to be. They were a nice guy, but it just wasn’t right for both of us.” and I move on with my life.
One thing that NML said is how if you have these “non existent relationships” you are actually very unavailable yourself. I agree with that. Over the past month or so, I am noticing that I am engaging in much more eye contact with people when I socialize. Also, I have been notice that many of my friends don’t hold eye contact when socializing. And many of those friends are eternally single. It’s just an observation, but I am hoping that with my engaging in more steady eye contact – it’s a signal that I am opening myself up emotionally and becoming more available. Here is hoping.
Have a great weekend all!
Ashley
Bryan,
Sorry I had to be so strong in my answer, unfortunately we are all learning this lesson from the site.
The most important thing to remember is that if they are not backing up their words (I love yous and promises) with actions they are not being sincere. A man who loves you will do whatever is necessary to incorporate you into his life, not make endless excuses why they cannot.
I love this site! NML you have been an awesome help 🙂 Reading this post reminds me sooo much of the movie “500 Days of Summer” – It’s currently showing at US film festivals and will have its major US release in July, hopefully in the UK too! If you get the opportunity to see it, I strongly recommend it b/c of its honest portrayal of emotionally unavailable individuals and those who love them. A lot about how easy it is to project our own desires & expectations onto others who can’t live up to them… instead of continuing the search to find someone who is at the same place we are/looking for the same thing.
Gaynor, please know I really, really appreciate the strength of your words. No apology necessary. It is totally invigorating. I am here for health and positive change! So thank you.
I keep bootcamping myself in regard to him (turning off my phone, not returning messages, drawing more defined boundaries, having other plans the night of social events he may attend etc.) but it is difficult because we often have to work directly together and we share a large social group. (The after work small focus group meetings are the worst. I literally have to run out the door if I don’t wanna get sucked in by his tractor beam)
Mutual good friends keep rooting for him to get his act together “he is such a wonderful guy and clearly loves you, but…..” For a long time, their forgiveness of the dynamic and comments of it is “unusually complex—not just a ‘he’s just not that into you’ situation” contribute to pliancy in my resolve. And I am fully aware I am allowing for that. I obviously like him a heap, I have been too forgiving of the dynamic’s mood swings. In my heart of heart’s I feel like he has large feelings for me, but is not *in love* with me, and feels too fearful to say those words and follow through consistently.
I met a friend of his from high school recently who said in front of us “EUM would get these enormous crushes on girls and stall-stall-stall, never follow through, the girl would get frustrated, find a new boyfriend and then EUM would make a career out of hating that guy.”
That pattern is deeply true. Other than his one and only relationship. Which also eventually resulted in him breaking up with her, her meeting another guy, and EUM talking about how the new guy stole her from him…..for the next three years.
So you see: Issues. And I see them too. I am realizing I love him much more than he loves me. And that I have a different set of expectations for him. While I hope to move toward dating each other, it seems he hopes to excise any glimpse of deeper emotional and physical connection, neutralize the dynamic, and transition toward friends. And most likely hopes I will meet another man so he is “off the hook” so to speak.
Bring on the tough love. It seems that I cannot afford to have even a touch of forgiving boundaries in this situation any longer. I am on really good terms with the other people I have actually truly dated in my life. I know that if I can push myself through to the other side of this mess, that I can be mature, kind, and no drama about this as well. But in the interim, during this exorcism, so to speak (haha) I need to be much more distant and unavailable. I feel too vulnerable otherwise.
This on going feeling of devastation and this protracted feeling of rejection is exhausting. I have been enabling it in myself for too long. I see the moments when I take good care of myself and contribute in positive creative ways to my own life, the ache substantially wanes, but it still feels very tough. Not as lonely as not taking care of myself, and feeling rejected, however!
Now the greek chorus of friends are evening losing faith. One friend remarked how once I feel better I will wake up and see the line outside my door of great guys who have been patiently (and now impatiently, apparently) waiting for me to be ready to “ditch the zero.” It made me laugh. I feel very far away from being able to see that or wanting to fall for someone else but hope for it. In the meantime I resent the fact that with each day I focus on EUM I stall an opportunity to be with someone great and more than willing to love me so much right back.
Bryan,
I loved your honest post.
I don’t know how old you are, but if the guy just isn’t showing signs of being “sure” about a relationship with you, how many months/years are you willing to wait to see if it will turn around?
I used to wait. I used to “try even harder” to be prettier, to be more patient, to do things his way…. it always amounted to the same end, and I lost many years of my life to that vague ride of ambiguity. He wasn’t a bad guy either, and I do believe he had some sort of “love” for me, but not the “I’ll be there for you always, and you’ll be there for me, too” kind.
So, I know everyone here who has been in these kinds of situations and wished so much for the man to be able to give just a little more than he is willing to give, is rooting for you to be able to close this off and let him go.
I broke with my ex of 5 years a couple of months ago, and it was one of those relationships where I centered him, and was not taking care of myself. Ever since then, I have slowly attempting to date, it has not been easy. I find that my codependent habits tend to reappear, when I least expect it, and find myself emotionally attached to guys who were not too much to speak of. Although I wont allow myself to get physcial with them it takes weeks and weeks to get them out of my system… Which does not make sense, other than I am just trying to fill the void. As of late, I met this guy who every month or so contacts me we hang out for a bit, then he disappears again, we have fun and all, but I think I put up with this nonesense because I dont really want someone who is emotionally available, my ex was EUM and I dont think I know what it is like to be with someone who is emotionally there… this dating stuff is really scarry
Wow, perfect, timely post (as I just texted someone I shouldn’t have- he didn’t respond, and I know he’s not interested anyway, just a lot of physical chemistry on a couple occasions). It helps so much to hear of others going through the same types of things – obsessive behavior based on a non-existent relationship, and the inability to “get people out of your system.” I have had several decent relationships (each lasting about 1.5 years) but lately after a tough breakup almost a year ago have had just “nothing” ones, but I still think about the guys a lot. Time is the best thing I guess. I am very slowly learning to accept myself more and learn to “love” myself. I am thinking a lot of my issues come from being sexually active at 14, and those promiscuous traits keep back-firing on me now that I’m almost 30. But as mentioned above I view actually dating as “scary” also. I feel I may be EU especially right now as I am uncertain where I’ll be in a few months (finding job, moving), but a lot of it too, as discussed in other threads, is the fear that a “decent” guy won’t be exciting enough for me… I never saw my love patterns as an addiction to drama but I am more aware of that now– attachment to the fantasy, always trying to recapture those “highs” from a guy giving me attention. Thank you so much for this site!
Dancefire, I totally understand about it being hard to get someone out of your system. I posted yesterday about being able to move on because of this site–and then tonight (at the opera of all places), I felt such physical longing and sadness it jolted me. Just goes to show, you can’t get too confident. No doubt, time passing definitely helps. I was very behind the curve on dating and sex, so even though I had a couple of relationships, I never had that adolescent, giddy, hormone-driven first attachment to someone–I think I just went through it now, so that’s why it’s so hard to let go. Reading each other’s stories is so helpful.
I was walking with a friend the other night and told her how I felt so empty how I felt depleted by this EUM, how I had given all and was left feeling humiliated and foolish and in stupid tears for my ignorance. She said, think of it like this, someone inspired you, some one gave became a light that made you write poetry, jump for joy, dance, laugh, love, they were just the inspiration for you to become more you! take them out of the equation and you are left with you and all the stuff you gave him…. was you!… it is from you!!, inspire yourself to write poetry, to jump for joy, laugh and love and give your gift back to yourself. She was ten years younger than me, usually I am the teacher, so nice to receive a timely gift. Just have to remember it!!! 🙂
peace and love
De, that is not just beautiful but really helpful. Thanks
Thanks Fleur,
I love this site, and everyone who posts here… you are my people and my inspiration! 🙂 strength and love to us all.
This is a great site and I really liked this article alot. It describes really well the dynamic of being myself unavailable and then holding onto someone who is himself unavailable. I need to stop, and look inside of myself and discover what old pain, fear and sadness is inside that I am avoiding. When I can address the old feelings inside of myself, and cry the old tears and grieve the loss of time I have spent avoiding these feelings, then I stand a chance of moving on and having healthier relationships.
It all comes down to me, and what am I doing with what is happening to me? I just sent a final goodbye email to a man who had ‘disappeared’ after an initial strong interest. The random, friendly email kept me thinking he was ‘feeling something’ for me. Maybe he was, but not enough to actually do anything about it. It weighed on me heavily and I felt worthless – and yet I tried to learn from all this as I walked through it. Now, I just want to draw it to a close and to openly say goodbye, and to thank him for the things I learned from him and the opportunities for growth that I experienced. I did stay around too long, because I liked him, but I also put a graceful end to it and tried to honor the situation and the initial good feelings we felt for each other.
I feel like I have learned alot about myself from this experience, even tho it hurt a great deal. I have also felt deeply embarrassed that I allowed myself to be part of a situation where I was left hanging and with someone who was so disrespectful to me – not talking to me and fading away. That hurts, to see how I tolerated that behavior, or blamed myself. Ugh. I will ask more questions and also listen to my instincts more closely next time. In the end, this man was a good teacher and showed me the things I need to look at in myself. I am proud of myself that I have used it as an opportunity to grow and learn.
“When the student is ready, the teacher will appear!”
Sarah,
Why would you send a final e-mail to a guy that had “disappeared?” Why waste your time?????
Sarah – Thank you for writing your post. I write this with tears – you hit my nerve…I posted back on 4/2. I understand why you would write a note after the ‘disappearance’. I wrote one…there was a little piece of me that wanted my own closure. There was also a piece of me that wanted him to know I cared in the event ‘something’ happened and he ‘shut down’. Then I found this site a few weeks ago – I only wish I had found it BEFORE I started dating my EUM. It has been three months for me and I still have some bad days…really bad days. It is as if he wanted to make me feel like crap and punish me. To know there were so many great things and potential with the relationship and have the door slammed in my face – and to wonder if it was all a joke…and the questions: This person that I had so much faith in was a fraud? That I am the fool? Embarrassment? Humiliation? Dumped without cause like a street ho? and how on earth do you NOT get a little hardened from this? Now am I going to question everyone’s honor? Yes, I will grow and learn. Yes, this was meant to be…but it still sucks…
I don’t understand why you would say goodbye and thank someone when you have been treated poorly? Should we be thankful for the little crumbs we get from these guys? Are we expected to be grateful for someone who has mainly shown us disrespect ? No way!!!
Healthy is moving on from a toxic relationship and not looking back!
Gaynor,
I understand Sarah’s position. I’ve been there and “saying goodbye” verbally to him… i do it for myself, it’s a way to tell myself that I’m ready to move on, that he doesn’t control my actions or my emotions anymore, and that I’m back in control of my life.
I don’t find it demeaning or humiliating. Usually when one is involved with a**holes (at least it happens like that to me) I end up keeping myself in check all the time, can I say this? how will he react? will he get angry? will he leave? etc but saying goodbye is a way to put a full stop and you don’t care what they will think or how they will react or what they will say, you just say what you think and goodbye. you put the focus on you and not on him. you take the focus off his reactions and do what makes it easier for you to turn a new page.
I’ve done it and I felt much better and free for it. Saying goodbye to his face or ear (over the phone) made it easier for me to sit straight and think “I dont’ want him anymore, I don’t want to be treated like that anymore” and made it easier for me to let go of the anger and frustration because it put me in control of my life. It was me saying goodbye.
I’m sorry, I think that cutting contact is the best way to be in “control” I wish I had done the same. I too gave the AC the courtesy of a final talk, he didn’t deserve it and I think the reason I did it was so he would remember me in a positive light. UGGGGGG!! By not giving a final goodbye you’re clearly telling him and yourself that you “don’t want him anymore.”
NML, could you please give your input on this?
I think what I have the biggest problem with is thanking someone for a relationship when you were disrespected. Not good!!!!!
Dear friends,
The last two weeks have been miserable for me.I have been going through a lot of anxiety and depression because of my EUM.Frankly I did not know that associating oneself with such men could drain you of your sanity.That’s what has happened to me now.My self esteem is at its lowest ebb,and I seem to have become a nervous wreck now.I do not think I can date anybody in the near future,I have become that apprehensive now.I seem to hate myself now because I let myself get involved with this man knowing from the beginning that he would never be able to give me anything,as in love,affection or attention.Frankly I am not angry with my EUM anymore.I think I need to forgive myself now…
Brooke,
There was no relationship between the two of you, right? Isn’t this the situation where you saw the guy a couple of times within a 2-year period? I don’t think that it was anything more than a platonic relationship (from your explanation), therefore he cannot be considered an EUM.
Please talk to someone professionally about these types of relationships.
I agree with Gaynor and looking back I am glad that I did not send him a good-bye. My friend wanted me to tell him it is over and I asked her:
I am suppose to tell a man, that disappears on me, it is over? The little self esteem and pride that I had left at that time didn’t allow me to do that and this great site and NML’s advice at the time. I had already cut the contact back then, but didn’t realize I did “No Contact” or what it really meant.
Guys that disrespect us don’t deserve respect from us or a good bye letter, the letter tells him that you still care about him and the door is still open for him.
What would his answer have been? Are you Ladies really expecting an answer back from these guys?
I have to agree with Astelle and Gaynor on this one. People who are disrespectful to you do not deserve your respect. Men who do not do what they say they are going to do, who disappear at days on end, makes you feel like sh*t, and keeps you and your emotions on a yo-yo is DISRESPECTING you and will not change…so you need to leave them alone. Period. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, saying good bye one last time, is a waste of your time b/c they really don’t care about how you feel…you think you’re being “decent” and “nice” and they think you are a woman who will do anything and take anything from them. Stop it. I’ve been there and it’s a hurtful place, but if you want happiness in your life and you want to love yourself or even like yourself, you have to see reality and realize that these are not relationships. You have to work on you.
lisa and gaynor,
you both really buoyed my sense of resolve over the weekend. thank you so much for it. i had a busy weekend (and feel so thankful for my life being as busy as it is all the time), which also helped. did not reply to a Saturday evening text. and as has happened prior, the slightest indication of unavailability/conditional interaction resulted in being bombed with communication. three more texts, three phone calls (unanswered) on Sunday. i had a Sunday evening meeting with another coworker at my home. EUM originally could not attend, i made the venue my house, then suddenly, at the last minute, he could attend. after the meeting I decided to walk my other coworker home to get out of the house (and get EUM out of my house) and clear my head. EUM followed me and our coworker for 3/4 of our walk …even though he was late for another obligation and ordinarily if it had just been me, he would have bolted. he also left a sweater at my house that I noticed this morning.
now he has tried calling me twice today and sent an email. must…fight…to…live. (i am chuckling, but also just shaking my head at his blatant insanity).
the working together part is gonna be challenging.
Bryan,
Good for you!!!!
Is there any real reason (work) for him to be contacting you outside of work? I would threaten to go to a superior if this harassment doesn’t stop.
gaynor,
my work situation/the nature of my profession is complex to say the least. it is a creative field so boundaries are not rigid.
rather than involve a superior (if there was actually one to involve) i may need to definitively say “I need space.” I have been avoiding saying it directly and making it personal, because being direct with him backfires, gives him attention and makes me feel vulnerable. but maybe there are other ways to consider this scenario. open to ideas.
I find detaching from the cycle due to a “very busy schedule and taking me time” has been more effective and empowering versus explaining my every move. making it a function of me not him has felt better in the past.
we just had a business trip so that interrupted my flow and resolve. did not have the home court advantage!
I may just observe the contact in the next two days and see if it ebbs or flows then reevaluate.
Maybe not completely on topic but I would like to comment on the “last goodbye” discussion.
I also wrote a goodbye email to my EUM before cutting contact completely (blocked everything). I too thanked him. Not for his behaviour but for the lesson. I am by nature not a resentful person and because of his assclown behaviour I will be better relationship material in the future. It gave me closure to do it this way. I tried cutting contact without this final goodbye but I constantly had the nagging feeling things were left unfinished.
It´s like saying goodbye to a deceased pet. Of course the pet doesn´t care and maybe it wasn´t all that cuddly after all but you say goodbye for yourself (if you need it).
Astelle,
You are totally right, they do not deserve our “goodbye” letters, what for??? No contact is the best! Lets them wonder what had happened and why we became distant…
As NML says in this post: “Commit to being in the real world”, I am not going to wonder anymore and “feed” my wild imagination!!! Its over for me, this is the most important and I dont give a damn what he thinks…
I don´t think there is a right or wrong here. As long as you look after yourself by cutting contact it´s your own choice what the last contact before NC will be like. Whatever works for you.
If you still think in terms of what he does or does not “deserve” you are still involved. It´s what you deserve. And I deserved and gave myself a goodbye.
Truth,
Not at all. It’s just about cutting contact completely. My opinion.
Gaynor, there is always a last contact before cutting contact completely. Some just prefer that last contact to be on their terms and to have a clear starting point for no contact with no loose ends. It was very benificial for me at least. But each to his own.
I know but don’t you think they know? I’m certain most of us have spoken to these guys on numerous occasions re. the issues, do you think there is any real doubt why the connection is being cut? Like Astelle said, she wanted to hold on to the little amount of self-respect she had left.
I wish I had just cut contact w./o giving him the courtesy of an explanation but I can’t change the past
Hi people,I didnt go NC with my ex.After all that happened and how he treated me I decided that I dont want him as a bf anymore but I decided to keep contact with him as friends,like a email every 2 weeks.What you think about that?
I tried many times to just cut contact without saying anything, but always in the back of my mind was the thought I can contact him if I want to or he can contact me if he wants.. and the anxiety I had over this was worth me fronting up to him and saying to his face I don’t want anymore contact I didn’t give a long speech just said its over.. I admit after doing this I was euphoric because I had done something that would benefit me.. Now I also admit to some weaknesses but I have had no direct contact with him for just over two months and sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is the fact I said the words it is finished no more contact and I don’t want to be weak by engaging with him anymore .. I also recently repeat to myself that he doesn’t call you because he doesn’t want to speak to you he is not waiting for you to make the first move.. because that had become my thinking he was waiting for me to be weak so he could go right back to playing his games..
So no matter how we do it as long as the end result is we no longer have contact and start to look forward and move forward..
Anusha he is probably very happy with that level of contact from you he doesn’t have to put any effort into the “friendship” and he gets his ego stroked by you still engaging with him after his treatment of you..
With respect to my xEUM, I cut all contact with him once we broke up at the beginning of Jan and then on VALENTINES day he emailed me to say ‘happy valentines day’…(!!!) and then started writing me emails…so i wrote him an email back one day ( and this was after after worked on myself 100% of my free time and seeing a psychologist, and so I knew alot more about me, him and him/me together) and i just told him that I need space from him and i also told him what i hope his next relationship brings him. I also told him how I hope this because I want nothing but good things for him in his life. No doubt, he has issues (actually, major issues),,,,but he is not a bad person and i really do hope that he finds himself and can give someone what he was never able to give to me (of course i know that this was also my fault…). And, I havent heard from him since. so that did the trick!
Anusha,
To really gain perspective on your relationship with him, to understand why you choose these men, to work on yourself and to cultivate better relationships, especially with you, you need to cut ALL contact.
If you want to be friends with him…then be friends…but like 1 year from now. I have had NC with my ex and although initially i wanted to be friends with him…i forced myself to have no contact and now, honestly, i never want to speak to him again.
What was hard for me, and is hard for me is the fact that even though I have followed the rules of no contact, I have worked on me/my issues, and truly am seeking happiness – the fact remains that my heart was broken.
Time is supposed to be the cure all. Empowerment is supposed to help, but when I run into him, my physical reaction tells me that even after six months of no contact – I am still engaged on some level. Even though no more than a hello has taken place – my heart still aches. It aches less than it did six months ago, but it still aches.
I want those answers that I know will never come. His not being an emotionally healthy human being, and me recognizing that fact, has not sped up my healing process one little bit.
Any advice?
Elizabeth,
First of all, you will heal. I hope someone as something more comforting to say than I do…. but maybe you can relate to this, Well, I’m sort of a trusting person. My ex-husband uses the word “gullible,” but I just think I like to believe the best in a person. So, when you put your entire trust in someone, and you believe that maybe they were “the one” and then they end up treating you disprespectfully, or stepping all over the “relationship” if there even was a relationship and stepping all over you, and if you’re a sensitive person (like I tend to be), it takes a long time to get over that! Some people I know have a less-sensitive personality, and when someone treats them like crap, they can shrug their shoulders and move on. I tend to hurt a little longer than average (and I’m working on that wimpy part of myself).
Have you let yourself get angry yet? I find that I was raised to not get angry, but if I let myself get angry when someone hurts me, then I can work on the next stage of healing.
It took me 4 solid years of being divorced to start to feel normal again, and still many years after that, there are pangs because I couldn’t stay with it and make it my “happily ever after.” I might always feel a little of that, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was EU and not able to have a real relationship. He still is that way. Sometimes I try to look deep into his eyes, and N-0-T-H-I-N-G is there in his heart towards me except for unhealthy things. Nothing warm at all, and it still hurts, but then we just exchange kids or money or parenting tips or whatever, and he leaves or I leave and life goes on.
I’m rambling. You hit a nerve, and I know how you feel, honey! You will get better!
I also ran into the ex MM today! I haven’t seen him in at least 7 weeks, (and neither time was by my choice), and I am working on over 3 months of NC on my part. (took me a bunch of tries to get to complete NC!) He was coming out of a little mexican restaurant by my house where I sometimes get food, and he and I had been there a few times. HE LIVES OVER 1/2 HOUR AWAY, and had no reason to be in that neighborhood, (but the food is good), and my natural impulse was to be nice, and I almost hugged him! Ew. Anyway, I backed off, and said “wow, it is weird running into you here” and then I said “I gotta go.” And that was it. Over. Yes, he still looked good, yes I wanted to be nice (my nature) and yes, he is still married for all I know, and I still have him all blocked on phone and e-mail, so it is all good, and he can’t write me some e-mail about how pretty I looked or how much he misses me.
It wasn’t fun, it was totally unexpected, and I’m glad it was brief, and that I had all the tools from this site to help me get over my long history “being nice” to him.
Elizabeth, I got counseling through my church. It really, really helped to talk to someone who was trained to help me get over this.
Kissie, “people who are disrespectful do not deserve your respect”, I do not agree with this.
I think that people who are disrespectful do not deserve my love and attention but everyone deserve respect and not for them but so I can look at myself in the mirror and think that I have behaved in a dignified and ladylike manner, I can look back and I’m not ashamed of what I see.
Saying goodbye is for me not for them. I don’t feel that I’m giving him attention or anything. If he disappeared or didn’t treat me right, he’s the one who should be ashamed of himself not me.
And I don’t want to shape my behaviour on his. I feel that it’s correct at the end of a relationship (and in my case there was a long committed relationship) to say “it’s over”. The fact that he didn’t behave in a correct manner is beside the point. I need to be correct and respectful because I have standards of behaviour regardless of who’s in front of me.
Otherwise we will keep shaping our behaviour and our standards on their (lack of) manners. I don’t want to do that. If he’s disrespectful and rude, does that mean that I’m entitled to be disrespectful and rude? No, not for me. If he cheats, does that mean that I’m entitled to cheat? No, at least not according to my standards and values.
More than once values and standards have been mentioned. I want to hold myself to some values and standards. and if I expect other people to do the same I should at least starting behaving accordingly.
That’s my personal opinion.
Nildonner,
I’m all about respect. I just do not understand putting another ounce of energy into someone who has thought so little of me (lying, rejecting and using) . I don’t have any more time for people like this!!!
NML, please give your thoughts.
Nilondoner, well said and I agree.
Elizabeth, I know that a day is going to come (and it will likely be when you are in a wonderful relationship) when you’re going to say, “good Lord–thank God it didn’t last between me and that UEM! If it had, I never would have found my current happiness.”
Nildonner,
I respect your opinion and your right to it. As I said in my earlier post, men who are rude, treat me poorly and are disrespectful to me do not deserve my time, attention or respect. That does not mean I am being un-ladylike or rude or that I have devalued myself. I have chosen to leave him alone…for good. Indeed, I devalue myself by being with these men and believing that if I am nice to them and “decent” and take the high road to the very end they’ll see me as a worthy and decent person and be sorry they treated me badly and realize they should really be with me. They won’t. That is my opinion. Once I have decided that this man has treated me horribly for the last time, has disrespected me for the last time, he deserves nothing from me. Haven’t we given them enough time, enough chances, enough opportunity to see how wonderful we are, haven’t we bent over backwards enough times for them to see our worth, but do they? NO, they don’t. One last good bye to them is not going to change who they essentially are. There is no right or wrong, for every situation is different. At least for me and me only, I agree with NML, no contact is no contact. No last goodbye note or text or whatever (I personally think it’s drama seeking, but that is MY OPINION solely, everyone must do what they think is best for them in their situation). No one last explanation or discussion as to why I am saying goodbye, no one last time for anything…it’s over, I’m done. I don’t have to say it. I just have to do it. By doing so I am valuing myself. I am respecting my boundaries and refusing to allow an A**clown to further abuse me. We all know when it’s time to say goodbye, that’s easy, it’s harder to stay gone and keep NC. When you do that you value yourself far more than proving to yourself how nice a person you are b/c you said good bye to some a**clown who didn’t deserve you from the very beginning.
With regards to “saying goodbye” or sending the “goodbye letter”…. I believe this site is about empowering women (and men) and while I am to blame as well for thinking about sending that goodbye letter…… it is really just another way of saying: “I am still invested in you”. Why? Because as I understand it, if we all had better self esteem we wouldnt need to be saying good bye to a person that barely even came close to giving us what we knew deep down we deserved. We would be like.. “huh?…. whatever– see you later! Dont have time for this” and be on our merry way. Not one more ounce of thought or energy would be expended on this person… because we would think so much more of ourselves that we would know its not worth it and wouldnt even look back to see if the door hit them in the a** when you closed it… because we wouldnt care!!! Say thank you to yourself for having the guts and the will power to let go of such relationships.. in fact, treat yourself to something nice and give yourself a pat on the back not HIM! Shiiiiiiit… i know its been hell for me to get over this person– why the heck am i giving him credit for ME having the balls to get out and realizing what an A** he has been?? Its time to think about ME because all we tend to do is think about THEM!!! To be honest, I dont think that when that goodbye letter even gets into their hands…..they even care. So the point is…….. if they dont care……. what is the difference between writing the letter and throwing it in the garbage? Sending them the letter, they open it……and then they hit “delete”…… didnt need to know all of this…..dont care…….why am I even getting this? Because we say that its for “us” right…..not for them?…. than if that is really true……why not write the letter and burn it or trash it or whatever? Its still for “us” isnt it??? Lets think about how honest we are really being with ourselves. Why does he need to get this letter– why do we need to say goodbye?? The point is that we are still giving away our power…..when what we need to learn is how to give that power back to ourselves especially after having made the error in allowing them to have so much of it. Someone who feels empowered on their own does not see the necessity for this… which is the reason WHY we shouldnt do it…. because we still need to work on that part of ourselves and the main reason why we visit this site (or no??) We are here to change the patterns that we constantly revert to and decide to do something different instead arent we?– in hopes that we get a different result/outcome?. I know for myself, i need to become a little tougher because I tend to be soo “nice”, I need to do something different even if it feels foreign at first because obviously my way has not gotten me very far in relationships. What is empowering about feeling like we “NEED” to have the last word or say goodbye? The fact that we still feel we “NEED” anything having to do with xEUM says we are still seeking validation (in a passive way) from this person. The stronger (and yes harder) route is to let it go and not waste our time anymore and work on making ourselves better…. that is when the true lesson is learned. The point is always about taking the focus off of them and putting it back on us!! Having values and standards for yourself is good but once again– that does not have to involve your xEUM in the equation. Have the value and the standard that you dont put up with CRUMBS and CRAP………and that you dont need to say goodbye in order to have closure. That sends a bigger message to these men because ACTIONS speak louder than words. ACT like you already said goodbye and your loooooong gone and walk right past them with your head held up high.. isnt that more empowering? I’m with you on this one Gaynor.
I found this post that NML wrote: I thought maybe everyone should check it out…
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/seeking-validation-understanding-in-your-poor-relationships-part-two/
Kissie, I just read your post…. Right on!!! 😉
Karen and Kissie,
Great points!!!!
Well, it would be nice if NML gave us her insights on this goodbye stuff.
I really agree with Nildonner. The last time I saw my EUM we were all happy kissing goodbye, next thing he stood me up and didn´t contact me again. I tried calling him, he didn´t answer and I cut contact. Talking about leaving things out in the open.
Later he started texting and mailing me blowing hot. Someone had to close the door. I wrote him an email stating that I have moved on, am happier without him in my life and I do not want to see him again. I thanked him for the lesson and wished him well. I left no room for interpretation and blocked his email and number after clicking the send button.
I don´t feel I gave my power away or invest in him. I had no intention to change his mind or convince him of anything, I was way past that point. I took my power and closed the door. It would have taken me a lot more energy to leave things unfinished. And robbing myself of closure and my values just because he doesn´t deserve anything seems senseless to me. I am not interested in what he does or does not deserve. I deserved this.
Hi, I am covering some of Natalie’s workload. Please read this post as she is now on maternity leave as she is literally due to have her baby any day. I will advise her of what is taking place on these comments and if she can respond, she will but please take note of the commenting policy and her wish to get some time off. Thanks Nicki
To Truthhurts,
I see your point. I do. But my point is when you and he were all “happy kissing goodbye” and then he stood you up (which was disrespectful of you and your time) that’s when he showed you that he was no longer interested in you, that you were not important enough for him to show up for. He closed the door. When he did not contact you, he showed you he was no longer interested in you and it was also disrespectful. You are a person, are you not? Why couldn’t he have at least have the common curtesy to say “see ya later”, “bye-bye”, “be gone”, whatever, but he didn’t. He left you by yourself wondering what the hell happened. That’s rude and disrespectful. When you called him and tried to get in contact with him and he consistently ignored you, that was him showing you he was NO LONGER INTERESTED IN YOU, that you were not that important to call back, that your feelings, your needs are not important, indeed that you are not important and that is rude and disrespectful. Then you decided enough is enough and you cut contact. Good for you. Then what did he do… he started blowing hot and cold, tried to get in contact with you…but on his terms, b/c with these men they call the shots, they let you know when they want you or not. Why didn’t you just not respond to his texts or calls or whatever? Why did you feel the need to send him anything? Why did you think you were the one who had to close the door, when he already closed the door way back when he stood you up? You handled your situation the best way for you and as long as he’s out of your life and can no longer hurt you then I am very Happy for you. But as far as I am concerned, he wouldn’t have even gotten so much as a glance after he stood me up. I would have cut him loose then, but that’s me. I am very valuable to me even if some of these men don’t seem to think so. My time is very valuable to me, so a man standing me up and then ignoring me is an absolute affront to me a woman and a person. But this is what works for me and we all have to find what works best for us and if saying good bye worked for you then that’s all that matters.
To Gaynor and Karen, Thanks. I enjoyed your post too, Karen.
Thinking about this the non-existent relationships..I do this all the time. For years I have invested in relationships that only exist in my head – usually with someone unattainable. Never have I openly confessed to my feelings. In my mind, attention given by the male is question is blown up into a full blown fantasy. He may have even asked me out in reality. After a while the good feelings then change to rejection and misery as I realise he is not going to come through for me ( however as I said he usually doesn’t know how I feel)…
It seems to me that I will do anything I can to avoid having a real relationship – choosing EUM’s for fantasy relationships is a big clue!
I am professional, attractive and popular but totally screwed up to the point where I feel there is no hope for me. I was abandoned as a child by both my parents and brought up in an abusive environment. Even though most aspects of my life are sorted, I have given up on having a relationship after a number of harmful ones and the realisation of how I am actually creating the situations myself by my own EU issues. My childhood has resulted in my knowing that I am actually unloveable ( again living out my own self-fulfilling prophecy). So I won’t now risk a real relationship as I know that the person in question cannot possibly love me. I have tried therapy over the years but all I have is greater awareness rather than healing.
What I will say is that this site has been a godsend in helping me break free of bad relationships and realising that I am not alone in this. Keep up the good work. Now I just need to stop the fantasy ones! 🙂 x
Interesting comments, I didn’t realise that my post would draw so many opinions!
I liked Nildoner and Trust’s comments, I do agree that we should be kind and loving – or at least respectful – to other people in our lives. I think, we receive what we put out into the universe and if we are harsh and unkind then we tend to receive that back. If we are gentle and kind, then that too will come back to us. Anyway, that has been my experience in life so far.
I try and take responsibility for my actions and involvements and if I am in a relationship that has ended I am allowed to say goodbye in a respectful and honorable way. I do this for myself and to respect the grace inherent in the relationship. I am not perfect and I don’t feel I can judge another person without myself also being judged.
We all affect each other and I think we can be thankful and respectful for the things we learn from each other. I think it it really does make it easier to move on when we set our own closure. We really do take back control of our own lives and I find it easier to move on, free from any hidden ties.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter. We are all allowed to have our own opinions here.
Sarah,
How is not responding to someone who has mistreated us repeatedly unkind? We should be loving to someone who has dumped on us time and time again? C’mon! I too believe in being loving in kind but only to those that treat me in the same manner. You said “we receive what we put into the universe,” if this is the case then why did we end up with these types of men? Curious?
Gaynor: You are correct; respect is earned. Assclowns do not deserve our respect, but me acting in a disrespectful manner – and that is different than cutting contact and moving on with my life – only makes me disrespectful. And, what good comes from that?
There is also the whole, “opposites attract” theory. While there has been much on the blog that because we get involved with EUMs, that we too, must be EU; I don’t necessarily agree with that.
I think that is the “draw” and the “pull” of the EUM to the EAW. There is an entire pathology at work in the EUM. But, the EAW assumes that the EUM has the same level of emotional integrity she does, and that is not the case. Of course, by then, the heart is involved.
I know that I won’t go back; I know that I will not ever put up with that type of behavior again, but it still doesn’t accelerate the healing of my heart. I am an emotionally available person, otherwise, I would be able to move on in a much faster manner. If I could just walk away, it would mean that I had no connection. Right? I know that there is no longer a relationship, I know that he opted out, but was too much of a “chickenshit” to be truthful and up front about it . . .
I get that. I want him out of my heart and I want him out of my head. I don’t think that I will ever fully recover from the trauma of being involved with this man. That doesn’t mean that I won’t move forward, that doesn’t mean that I won’t try to love again, but it does mean that I have forever been “colored” by the experience.
No, it makes no sense. How do they slip past our radar? But, they do.
I know that I am emotionally available, and that is why the rebuilding of the heart is so hard. Yes, I finally got that he was EU, yes, I finally got that his indecision was his decision, and yes, I stopped trying to “understand” what two and half years of my life was about – the length of my relationship with him. Truly, I don’t want to hold on to the hurt, I don’t want to hold on to the memories. I want him out of my heart and I want him out of my head.
I was never in a “non existing relationship” and I don’t know what it feels like, or with someone who treated me so bad that I wished they never existed so my comments referred exclusively to the end of my long committed relationships gone wrong. Everyone has got a right to their opinion and there’s obviously no right or wrong and I will continue to do what is right for me without judging other women’s actions. But i’d like to me a couple of comments:
when a man pulls disappearing acts not answering phone call etc without even say “I don’t want to be with you” we scream bloody murder, he’s an assclowns and emotionally unavailable and he’s a poor excuse for a human being; but when we do the same somehow we are just defending ourselves. We behave like them but we’ve got reason!?! It’s like when you are in the car and scream and swear at other drivers for being rude but you are justified because they provoked you. I know, lots of people will say “oh but it’s different, he gave me reason” and I reply “Is it really different?”
the second comment is: I wonder how much of not wanting to say goodbye and say it out loud is because somehow women want to have a gangway in case he comes back one more time. Maybe it’s so they can leave a door adjar.
Men are proud creatures with a big ego and it’s harder to go back to a woman who said “I do not want to have anything to do with you anymore” than to go back to a woman who’s not answering the phone and “it looks like she’s just sulking and maybe if I try hard enough she will give me an ego stroke”.
I’m playing devil’s advocate and I’m not saying that this is the case with anyone on this site but that’s what it would mean for me if I just disappeared.
At the end of the day I have to do what will allow me to be able to look at myself in the mirror and say to myself that I behave according to my principles and values.
We have been reading posts about EUM and EUW subconsciously attract or seek each other…or bad patterns of behavior. Most of us are finding that we are EUW (through reading these posts) and are working on our own issues. We are not bad people…we are just not good at healthy relastionships. Give the ‘other guy’ the same courtesty who is probably not aware of his emotional unavailability (as most of us were not until we started reading these posts!) I understand the No Contact philosophy however, say a goodbye and stick to no contact after properly ending the so called relastionship. Say it and move on. It is damaging to have someone, ANYONE disappear on you. The first big step of empowerment is taking control…making a decision to end it…ending it properly and moving forward. And…by not handling an ending properly…aren’t you NOT COMMITTING TO AN ENDING???
At Nilondonor and Kimba, leaving the door adjar and not committing to an ending (nicely put!) is exactly the way I felt before I wrote my goodbye. By just dissapearing you always leave an opening. Isn´t that exactly the reason why a lot of assclowns just dissapear instead of making a clean break? Because that way they can always come back?
It´s almost impossible for myself or an EUM with a shred of selfrespect (which I admit they seldom display) to go back when you have shut the door tight by saying without a doubt or hostility “I don´t want you anymore”. Even if you have to lie when you write it (as I did..)
Truthhurts,
I, too, lied when I wrote “I don’t want you anymore” to the married guy. But I really needed him to leave me alone, and when I didn’t give him closure, he kept coming back. After I wrote it and started sticking to “no contact” I realized that “hey, maybe I really don’t want him anymore.”
It was an unhealthy relationship, and writing “I don’t want you anymore” helped me close the door
truthhurts: I agree; assclowns come back, because they think that the option of a relationship with you is still there.
Nilondonor: True, that. I was never in a non-existent relationship either. There was a relationship, and there was a connection, but in the case of my EUM, it turns out he really can’t commit to anything. Yes, he is employed, yes, he does his job, but there is this “hamster on a wheel” type of personality that he has. He just goes through the day, and goes through the motions. Reacting rather than being proactive. And repeats the next day – same thing. Like in the movie, Groundhog Day.
Still, at the end of the day, he makes a choice to not decide to do certain things that would be a no brainer to me. And that inertia activated my indecision, which ultimately turned out not to be good for me.
I think that each of us is different in how we handle the grief of being left when there ended up being an end to the relationship or no relationship to begin with. For me, it is one of the most painful things I have had to go through. Being the one who had to say, “Stop,” when stopping wasn’t what I wanted was outright torture.
Being off the daily roller coaster ride: he would call, but not when he said he would; he would make the date, but he was always late; he would show up, but then have to leave early because he didn’t feel well, he had something to do for his daughter, or he would be on the phone with his daughter . . . always something. Getting off of that ride was great, and I don’t miss that, but I miss his kisses and our conversation.
The lack of resolution, despite the closure, is painful. I’m on a different variety of roller coaster. Someone has referred to these men as dangerous. I chuckled when I first heard that, but I now whole heartedly agree: This was dangerous. I took a hard hit, and it will be a very long time before I heal. That’s my reality, and it sucks. I have no desire to be with anyone.
Nildonner,
I agree! If you’re involved with someone and decide you no longer wish to continue the relationship and you end this relationship w/o explanation is very hurtful. But, if someone has been mistreating (haven’t heard from him in a week, doesn’t show up for a date, cheats, etc…) you over a prolonged period of time (numerous conversations have been discussed on the issue) I do not believe they deserve the courtesy.
One more thing.
I have heard many stories on this site from women who have repeatedly told these men not to contact them (including myself), and they have disrespected these women to the point of harassment. Doesn’t sound like the ego was too effected.
Kat:
I feel you’re story and can relate. I just wanted to say that I felt the same way after leaving my EUM. Hurt, angry, confused, but mainly hurt and angry. So much that I swore off men for awhile myself… thinking well if I am so dysfunctional… I dont have a chance out there in the “healthy relationship world” until I am 100% cured and healthy myself. But then I realized that like anything else in life… you have to be willing to put yourself out there again with your new found knowledge and awareness. The first couple of times, you may stumble but not as much as before…you may still encounter an EUM and or some form of rejection… but the point is that you are exercising and putting to use what you have learned. You are now more aware, more cautious… yes perhaps not “cured” of your self esteem and or unlovability to yourself (those are scars that need a lot of time and TLC to heal from not sure if “CURED” is even possible) but still consider the possibility of going out there and taking a chance. Proceed with caution– but do so with the correct tools now.. with the correct idea of what a healthy relationship should look and feel like…and then stick to it and dont allow anything less to come into your life. Yes it can be scary and hard— but i know I like to use what I have learned and see if it works for me.
The other day I went out on a date. The guy was extremely good looking, charming etc…. Of course I wanted to see him again. The minute the date ended I began to imagine what it would be like to have something more with this person and then I said HOLD ON! PUT ON THE BRAKES~!!!! Dont start to form castles in the sky.. that is your pattern. And so I took a deep breath and said…. you know what… it was a good date..nice guy— but lets see what else he’s got. Let me not start thinking that he is this GREAT person… off of just ONE good encounter. It was evident to me that obviously my “issue” is still there and that i have yet much work to do… but now that I am aware of what it is…… I can use it and exercise my new awareness and put into action. I don’t know if there will be a second date or if that was all…….but I was grateful for having the experience and knowing that my pattern or tendency to want to create a fantasy too soon is still there. I check myself and proceed with caution— but I dont stop myself completely just because I am not 100% there yet. With time, I know I will get better at it and perhaps even say I no longer do it (that is my goal) but in the meantime, live in the moment (dysfunctional or not) and enjoy the process along the way as well…. eventually change will occurr…and who knows we may one day wake up to find ourselves in a “healthy and loving relationship” if not with another person, than just with ourselves! 😉 GOOD LUCK!
Karen,
Loved your post. I too have the same tendency to make castles in the sky upon meeting a new guy. I too swore of men for a while before I realized that I had to go back out there and try, but with clearer eyes and sharper wits…and it’s really scary. Just recently I met a guy who showered me with compliments. A few years ago I would have lapped it up, but I forced myself to slow down, stopped myself from planning the wedding, stopped the fantasy from taking hold in my head… I was honest with myself and with him and dealt in reality. It was hard. But I recognized my pattern and stopped myself from engaging in it. He told me how hot I was, how beautiful, how much of a catch I was….ok, thanks now tell me something I don’t know. Interestingly enough with all this sweet talk, never once did he ask me out, or invite me out for coffee or drinks or inquire at all about who I was or try to get to really know me and his reason: “i’m in the middle of a divorce and don’t know how long it will take maybe a month maybe two years, but time is something I just don’t have to give right now.” RED FLAG, DING! DING! DING! DING!!! he actually told me this. I few years ago I would have deliberatly ignored that comment, I would have analysed it and dissected it and made up a million and one excuses and reasons why what he said isn’t really what he said so that I would not have to acknowlege that what he was really saying is that “I’m a big ‘ole emotionally unavailable man who wants you only on my terms and not willing to give you what you need, becasue you should be jumping for joy that I was honest and told you about my situation.” When I told him that I empathized with his situation, but would not accept it b/c it was essentially a waste of my time since he cannot give me what I need in a realtionship, he became incensed, told me I had offended him and how nice he had been to me (a few 6 mintue phone calls and sweet talk is essentially all I got from this man). Funny, isn’t it?
I say all this because it is an example of me taking control of my self, my life and trusting my gut and acting on that trust. I recognized my pattern, I stopped myself from engaging in it, I maintained a healthy emotional distance, I was honest and I kept my feet and my head in reality, I stuck to my deal breakers and focused on what I wanted and needed, I dealt in reality and it paid off b/c now he’s gone and I feel great that I didn’t fall into my pattern. This site and NML’s articles and advice, therapy, friends and faith has carried me this far where I can feel good about asserting myself in this kind of situation… I rarely did that in the past. It’s a long hard road, one that I am still walking and learing on, but it’s a really good one to walk if health and happiness and genuine self love is the destination.
Kissie:
It is soo scary– and by the way– did we go out on a date with the same guy?? LOL I applaud the way you handled yourself in this situation because I know how hard it is for us (fallback girls or whatever you want to call us) to cement ourselves to the ground! I did and thought the same exact things you did. This guy (who was really HOT by the way) was very complimenting, told me how beautiful I was… etc..etc… but yeah— did he once ask me anything about myself? Or when I managed to squeeze in some info about me (and not about my looks by the way) did he even listen or care? This is how we know we have progressed.. because like you I would have justified it somehow in my head because I would have wanted to see and believe what I wanted to see and believe. Instead I remained strong, focused and kept in my mind what a real interested and available man would act and treat me like and didnt allow my over active imagination put us on the honey moon already! Believe me, it was hard hard hard! But i did it! And i am soo happy I did. That is progress for me. Now its been 3 days since our date and while he did text me on the second day— to say hello….. im not getting very good vibes from this person. But once again— a year ago I would have been obsessing about when the next phone call would come, I would have been checking my phone constantly– i would have been analyzing what i did or didnt say etc..etc..etc… Now, I sit here calmly and patiently and dont sweat it and if i need to take that as my “cue” that he is not interested— im ok with that. Way before I invest myself any further (whew). If a man is genuinly interested he will certainly call or let it be known. Otherwise— i rather not waste my time. It was a nice date with a really good looking and successful man but if he couldnt see past my looks or the bedroom……..than he doesnt deserve me! KUDDOS to both of us for having the courage to remain strong, learn and move forward…. thats what its all about!!!! 🙂
Karen,
Glad you recognized the red flags!! If a man has not shown any interest in me or my life then there wouldn’t be a second date. Period!
Was it all about him and your appearance?
Gaynor:
I have no clue! To me… when a man focuses purely on looks or proceeds to shower you with compliments all the while not engaging in any “REAL” conversation, it means he just wants to get in your pants. Otherwise– why are you buttering me up? Not to say that compliments aren’t good and in fact welcomed 🙂 but im saying this in the context of this particular date it just seemed like there wasn’t any GENUINE interest in me as a person, what i like to do, where i am in life etc… Things that people that are interested in a “REAL” relationship would ask. Hey, he was HOT but ive been told many a time that I am as well…….but if i can look past your looks and actually take the time to want to get to know you— I expect the same in return. I reluctantly went on this date… im not out there actively dating per se, but If something that sparks my interest comes along I give it a chance (for practice atleast.. heehee) but if during or after that chance you dont come up with something more……than its time to bail….and the fact that im actually seeing this makes me feel good because I know I have learned something.
I believe the universe doesnt cater to our weaknesses. It will constantly throw at us a second chance or the opportunity to have it another go, to prove ourselves……we just have to make sure we are ready to respond with something different (the second time around) so that we have a different experience of it.
Karen,
Good for you!!! We’re all learning! 🙂
That’s so great to hear that the “castle-in-the-sky” pattern can be broken, or at least worked on. I’ve had a tendency to “fall in love” with guys very easily (actually based on lust) and obsess about them. It’s like each one has a unique,interesting,fantasy personality and story that I “collect.” It does seem much more rational to keep alert to everything a guy is showing you about his behavior, especially showing very little interest in your life, not just his hot-ness and imagined potential.
I wanted to comment on the idea of a final goodbye. I had never had the disappearing act pulled on me until an EUM I dated that would do it frequently. Since I was so attracted to him, I couldn’t stop contacting him, but he would never officially say “stop,” which I guess I shouldn’t have expected him to. However, when I heard thru someone that he liked some girl, I sent a final text, and I know that I really HAD to, for me, because if I hadn’t, I would still be hoping and wondering and thinking a lot about him. I pretty much always reply to every communication, just courtesy, how I was raised. It seems “left open” otherwise (and Lord knows I would have always kept the door open for this a**hole). (If I’m not interested I try to make that clear too).
Also, there’s the POWER GAME dynamic. Somehow sending a final message makes you think you chose it, gives some sense of control maybe.. even though they by their not liking you as much as you like them, clearly were always in control. There was such an endless psychological game at play with this guy, I felt, though it was mostly me playing and him not caring. *Shrug*. At least I’ll keep my eyes open and not get into something like that again… it was a game I couldn’t win, and even when I thought I’d “win” (by coercing him to see me).. I’d really be losing.
Gaynor: (totally off subject)
I had written Miss Confused something on another post but it says that no more comments are allowed under that post… im assuming that is the moderator? Just want to make sure there isnt something screwy with my computer.
Hi Karen. Due to some of the current issues with commenting, all posts more than 2 weeks old have had comments closed. This is to ensure that comments start to stay on topic, don’t spiral, and don’t create a load on the server. It is not expected to be a permanent measure. In terms of moderation, if you are part of a dispute in the comments or don’t meet other terms of the commenting policy, your comments will be flagged and they will have to be approved before publishing. Thanks Nicki
NML’s last blog post..He broke up with me – Is he an assclown?
The ‘goodbye’ thing is up for interpretation and could go on and on…. but I know for myself that my exEUM was an a**clown so saying goodbye to him would have been like snuggling my nose up his butt. The way I see it, I would only say goodbye to an EUM only if it was to make me feel “less guilty” or because I didn’t want to come across rude. Now that I have some self-respect and see myself differently….I’m ecstatic that I went NC WITHOUT the goodbye! After the way he treated me, that chump doesn’t deserve to lick my feet (I’m being incredibly civil here). It took me a while to see that it was poor treatment and I’m sure he shook his head many times thinking “doesn’t this chick have any self-respect???” But he sure knows it now and I didn’t have to say a word…..
Metsgurl:
good for you! I think the main point about NOT sending the goodbye letter is because when either we or they have decided that its over… we immediately need to focus on moving on. The No Contact rule is there mainly to ensure that we dont “fall back” especially when the break up has just happened. Some (not all of us) tend to still be very emotionally attached and it is still at a very vulnerable stage. I think if we can maintain NO CONTACT and the sooner we let these people go– the sooner we are on the road to getting over them. If some people feel that they can be friends with these EUM’s after or if they feel that they can send this goodbye letter and consider that closure… I would just say to make sure that they mean what they say before doing it and to each his own. I honestly think like you and Gaynor and Kissie and some other people on here that no contact is best……and that if someone cheated on you, treated you wrong or disrespected you… you have to show yourself respect and set those boundries that say (without saying) that you dont need to say goodbye to move on– you can simply just do so without an explanation and or a last word… it is more empowering for us and better for our self esteem (it has nothing to do with them) The last word is shown in your ACTIONS not in what you say. There is another post by NML about “women who talk too much syndrome”. I know by the end of my relationship I had done so much talking and writing that sending a letter or uttering another word would have just been another opportunity for him to roll his eyes and say “here we go again” to me, it just falls on deaf ears. Besides, when you walk out of your house and close the door behind you…. whether you said goodbye or not, a closed door is a closed door……. the action speaks for itself…….I have left the building.
I for one like what you said: “But he sure knows it now and i didnt have to say word”. Actions have more power in this instance because with these types of men— nothing else works!
Karen,
It’s possible it was the same man 🙂 may have looked different but emotionally… the same. This guy also didn’t seem very interested in my REAL life, he was completely focused on how attractive I was and what he would do with me and for me. Dude, how about a date, a cup of coffee and conversation? Let’s start there… ask me a question and stop yapping about how wonderful you are and how wondeful you are for me. So it was very empowering for me to really see the red flags and acknolwedge it for what it really is…not a good fit. I think trusting our gut in these situations is key, b/c on some level we know, but we choose to ignore the warning signs. It feels good to stop, think, listen to my soul and then make a move. Often times when we put aside the blind hope, fear and illusion we realize that we really don’t want these men, we really don’t even like them. So keep up the good work Karen, and everyone here who’s working so hard to find and maintain healthy relationships.
I agree 100%, when i first met my EUM, I honestly didnt even like him or find him attractive, but somehow the charm got to me.. and i was caught up..
Now reality is slowly starting to kick in and im just thinking to myself, what did i find attractive about him,
And that has been my moving on point, i read something that was funny but true… *b***hes they come and they go*- this could be said about EUMs.. and if a guy really wants to be with you.. he will move mountains for u..
Karen and Kissie, after reading your dating experiences I am actually getting more positive to the whole idea of dating again. I have shut myself down after being through turmoil with the EUM and have now a very negative attitude towards men. I know its based on fear, fear of being lured in an undermining relationship (of some kind..) again. But with everything i have learned and the toolkit provided here maybe I can deal with it. Just like you guys did. Maybe there is hope for us yet!
To truthhurts:
There is always hope. I know it’s hard. These are patterns of behavior we have engaged in for all our lives so to change now takes alot and it’s very scary. Keep reading the wonderfully informative posts by NML, keep NC if you’ve been doing this, create a dating deal breaker list (I did and this was enormoulsy helpful!!), do things you enjoy, get some really good girlfriends who’ll keep you grounded, say positive affirmations everyday in the mirror. I know why you are dating and be clear as to why. Good luck, be well and most importantly be strong. 🙂
sorry that should read know why you are dating the “I” is a typo sorry.
Look to Joni Mitchell for the right answer here.
“Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels
the dizzy dancing way you feel
as ev’ry fairy tale comes real
I’ve looked at love that way.
But now it’s just another show.
You leave ’em laughing when you go.
And if you care, don’t let them know.
Don’t give yourself away.”
Of course, this is the middle of “Both Sides Now.”
ANY man (EUM or not) who disrespects you to the point where ANY woman with common sense and good self esteem would have to put an end to things, to move on with her lilfe, KNOWS that his actions could very well lead to you moving on!
Why leave a note/letter/planned-goodbye-appointment for him?
So that he will have further proof of why he SHOULD “laugh when you go”?
When the jerk (man or woman, EUM or not) was incontrol of the relationship, and you know you have to leave it, and you take the necessary action to leave it, you sort of mock yourself by trying to assert power or control by giving the jerk the final goodbye.
(…Especially when the “relationship” may not even have been real!)
Thank you, thank you, thank you to all who have written on this blog! You don’t know how therapeutic it has been for me to read everyone’s posts. I had been going through a situation for 1 1/2 years and about three weeks ago, I finally had to put my foot down and end things. The worst part is that not only do we work for the same company, but we work in the same department. This guy has tried a few times to talk to me since the incident and I’ve either been short with him or ignored him. It’s been tough because I still care about him (we started out as good friends and were also extremely attracted to each other) and want to know what is going on in his life (he’s got a lot of baggage, hence his reason for not being ready for a serious relationship), but I have had to force myself to cut off any contact with him. I just wish that my broken heart would heal soon.
Wow I was in tears when I read this,I recognise myself in all this,I have never read an article that has spoken to ME so clearly about my love LIFE, it is very confronting and I hear everything in this article but I just dont know where to go from here, how to stop all my self destructive behaviour with these “men” in my life.I want help, need help because I dont want to do this anymore.
Lovesick,
There is a link on this web-sites home page for the book “Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl” which is an in depth book helping us understand ourselves and these issues we have with men. When I “stumbled” upon this web-site, I was like you…. FINALLY A PLACE WHERE I CAN GET SOME HELP. So, I bought and downloaded the book, gobbled it up and started putting into practice some of the exercises. It really helped me step back and take a healthy look at the bad relationship I was in, and now I’m just continueing to work on myself. I highly recommend it as would a lot of women who post here.
Good luck. Keep reading all the articles. They’ll help you on your journey to get strong in yourself and with the kind of relationships you participate in.
I’d like to add that even if your man is making promises, talking about marriage, kids, times you will spend in the future together and inviting you to major holidays–it does not mean you are in an official relationship. I had to learn this the hard way–got strung along by a very seductive commitmentphobe who was infatuated with me. I was so sure we were headed toward a bright future together that I waited too long to ask for a commitment–and that’s when he told me he wasn’t ready. Even after I broke it off with him, he chased me, obsessed over me and tried to get me to do things “his way”. So everyone, beware of this guy…he is out there and ready to play into all your fantasies of ideal love–and then leave you devastated and confused. It has taken me months to get some sanity back in my life and understand what happened, to learn which mistakes I am accountable for so I don’t repeat them, and I feel like I am only getting started. WATCH THE RED FLAGS AND DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING–even if your fantasies tell you otherwise.
Babs, I feel your pain, been there done that so props to you for recognizing the entire picture and moving forward. I appreciate your comment…G
I found this site several weeks ago. I was dating someone since November who had become emotionally unavailable due to residual issues with his X, his children living out of state, the foreclosure of his home, and job concerns. On the last night I saw him, he told me, “I want to see you more” and then proceeded to withdraw from me once again. Three weeks later, I sent him an e-mail detailing the deterioration of our relationship, and telling him that if he wanted a relationship, he would have to see me more regularly. I have not heard from him since, so his silence has spoken volumes. Anyway, I feel like I am getting better day by day, although it is still rough going. Sometimes, I think I imagined the good times we shared…
Res Judicata’s last blog post..He broke up with me – Is he an assclown?
Re-reading this page after I slipped and asked to be his Facebook friend again. Does anyone else out there find Facebook to make this “non-existent relationship perpetuation” worse? The ease that you can check out their pictures, keep up on their life, which you actually have no part of, but it’s almost like your brain is tricked. Back when people just had one home phone number and there was not easy texting, and all the online stuff, it seems it would be easier to just let go… I know I’m being pathetic and stupid when i check his profile… it’s just too easy to do. ugh. My brain gets stuck in a cycle of imaginary hope – I talk myself out of it, remind myself there’s nothing, but that pesky unfounded hope pops up again and again. arggh.
Dancefire, I too find it a lot more difficult to get over my EUM now that you can basically keep track on someones life via the internet. But I notice it wears down. I feel less and less need to check as time goes by. But sometimes I still have nights that I do a whole round of sites (including the dating site he is on). It´s a bit pathetic, I know.
But it will become better. If we just move on with our lives, see friends and minimize the nights alone on the couch with acces to a computer.
NML wrote
… when you let go of something that doesn’t and didn’t exist, you have that power and are in the driving seat of what happens to you.
While there are many great posts on this site I think this is one of the most helpful. I started reading this site in late December and found almost all the thoughts that had been in my head for years written here in one way or another.
A month later I began to face the fact I was in an unhealthy relationship, that was not the kind I wanted, and I began to confront it within myself. Within the next few wekks the EUM flaked big time, leading me to begin NC three weeks ago. In my case I had to send a clear letter, he was able to intrude upon me at work, and I had to tell him he was not welcome at my workplace anymore.
Yes NC is hard as hell but deep down you will know if it is right, you need to remember what you want in a friend or a partner, and you need to remember that this person was the antithesis of what you wanted.
No contact gives you ability to cut the cord that ties you to illogical things like fantasy projections, seeing though rose colored glasses, magical thinking, all those things that NML wisely points out in the above post, helps you create your own misery.
All I will say is the sooner you end a one sided relationship that feels abusive, the sooner you will be on the road to recovering all that is good inside of you. Might be a long road, might not. There will probably be a few rough spots in the road. But, once walking on that road for awhile, I bet it will feel like the right path to most of you here.
I keep coming back to this site for energy to keep on. NML’s posts are relevant and the thoughts and stories shared help me walk my line. I am grateful to all of you.
Hello,
I cheated on my boyfriend with a long time crush and he cheated on his girlfriend with me (his was a long distance relationship) We always went to his place seeing as it was empty. He told me from the start he didnt want anything serious and fair enough we both were taken. I however had very very strong feelings for him and the more we slept together the more I started to fall for him. My feelings were always out in the open so it wasnt a surprise that i really liked him and might actually leave my bf if the feelings were mutual. So anyways out of know where 4 months of messing around he says its getting to serious we need to stop doing the deed and just be friends. For about a month and a half we have gone back and forth with no contact and me sending texts asking to continue (almost begging) he was always answering me saying he really wanted to but it was a bad idea. Recently he asked me to stop sending him those awkward texts and obviously that really hurt knowing i cheated on my bf with someone who didnt give a crap.
How can i make myself stop texting him it seems evertime i have an urge i just do it and then regret it after?!?!
Help me get over this a$$
AWESOME POST!!! Breaking it down that way makes it so clear. The hard part is accepting it and letting it sink in. Thank you.
I’ve been searching for answers and I found your blog. Thank you. Soon after my divorce a few years ago I started dating a man who claimed he wanted to be married and build a relationship but as time went on I could see he didn’t know how to hold an intimate relationship…he was really married to his mother. It crashed and burned when he cheated on me and told me the reason was was because I didn’t make enough money! Sick puppy. But it took me over a year to get over him. Now I’m at the end of another UM, thank God it’s only since early April, where he was in hot pursuit of me even telling me it was love at first sight for him and within two weeks he’s proposing and he loves me and sure, sure, sure. At that point red flags are flying and I’m waiting to see the agenda. He was looking for an apartment and wanted to move in with me. He has nothing to offer me and creates all kinds of drama then tells me I’m the one who creates drama. It makes me crazy. The good news is that I saw it sooner and I have cut off all contact with the first one and it absolutely freakin’ kills him. Almost three years later he’s still trying to get my attention via email and phone, but I’m sad to say it was only since last Oct that I stopped on my end. But I’m realizing now that I must be just as emotionally unavailable as they are. Like attracts like. How did I get this way? That’s what’s killing me. My first boyfriend was great…7 years and when he asks me to marry him I couldn’t. Then I started with a narcissist who was EU and I fell into his web for years building something in my head that wasn’t anything. And the pattern started then at age 21. This new one has broken it down to booty call and texts only when he wants and he blames me for not allowing him to have this ‘relationship’ he wanted with me. But within a week of meeting him, I could see right away (better than in the past, I must give myself credit for something), that his true colours came out. Inside of blowing him off right there an then I took it as a game. Who can outlast the other. It’s stupid and has made me angry with myself that I’m wasting so much emotional energy with this idiot who can provide me nothing, is really a mean person, blows hot and cold, and incapable of emotional intimacy. And to make it all pathetic, he can’t/won’t even please me in bed. Wait till you hear this excuse: “You’re just so hot and I want you so badly, I just can’t wait on you.” Even though I’m laughing, it’s really pathetic. This has got to stop. I’m questioning if I can ever turn the tide and be healthy myself.
never make someone your priority, when your only an option to them……
Hi, My name is Cheryl and I’m an EUF :-/
Still in contact with the EUM-we established a working relationship which has been very successful, but I think I am just basking in the legitimacy of being able to communicate with him regularly without coming across as a stalker. He has been very needy, but what it boils down to is that he is still using me and I am still allowing it.
Having said that, Ithe more time I spend with him, the better I realise how fucked up he is and whatever happens, he will not choose me and it wouldn’t work anyway.
Still confused tho, Everything Natalie says is so true and I must remind myself of all the key ideas in her writings. I’m the fricking POSTER CHILD for the Fallback Girl.
I am English and live in the USA but am currently on vacation for a month in Australia with my best friend, who lives here. I have texted and Skyped and emailed this man, even tho this was supposed to be a complete mental break for me. I even made the tragic error today of looking at his Facebook and there are lots of pictures of women, some with quite intimate photos-nothing incriminating, but settings that suggest intimacy of an emotional kind.
Most of the photos of HIM however (ie not submitted by his harem)
are from about 20 years ago, where he looks much better than he does now…how telling-that vanity is in full force! He wouldn’t want people to see him as he looks now…one picture submitted by a woman was of him in college and the caption says “Name (him) was bringing sexy back long before Justin Timberlake!” and HE posted this on his Facebook! Ugh.
I want to cry, and have a knot of jealousy that is almost closing my thorat up…but it’s also helping me to see how he sees himself, how he wants to be seen, how vain he is, how he sucks dogs balls and how I need to let the fuck go. Of this relationship that doesn’t exist.
Can somebody HELP ME????
Hi blackgnat,
God forbid I should set myself up as any kind of “expert” giving out advice on relationships when I’ve spent the bulk of my life with jerks or alone to avoid jerks…
….but, I really do believe that in your case hunting out info from him and keeping in touch with this man out of work or about things other than work matters is a HUGE MISTAKE.
Read up about the No Contact Rule, and then start following it. The less you know about him and his games and tricks, the less they’ll be able to affect you.
The less he knows about you and your life, the less he’ll be able to comment with any accuracy.
You have a working relationship – okay, keep it like that: TOTALLY BUSINESS, NO OTHER COMMENTS OR INFO. Don’t tell him about your holiday/weekend/friendships/new romance/what you had for dinner.
Discuss the matter in hand briefly and professionally, then off: better and other things to do now.
Meanwhile, the more you keep contact with this man in your private life… well, the longer you’re keeping it alive and being suckered into the pretence of his marvellous, fantastic, sexy, full world. (Not!).
Best Regards, Leonine.
This is by far one of the best posts you have EVER EVER written!
I often talk about women doing too much delusional fantasizing and you def hit the nail on the head.
I think that us women do this because of the two core reasons that you mention here.
1) We are emotionally unavlaiable
2) We love drama
Hello? who needs the BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL when your own soap opera is so much more interesting and you even get to play a part!
Why would you give that up?
Well you would only give that up .. if you realised that you have the ability to create an amazing relaitonship, with an available guy … if only you stopped smelling the fake made up roses and started living your life, totally and completely!
Hot Alpha Female
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I can’t believe I’m here again… I embarked on the “no contact rule” a month ago and I was doing alright with the exception of my mind drifting to the memory of him and desparate my pursuit of his affectiones because I should have been wiser with a man that is attached and half way across the world from me. I keep goimng back to the day we met abd how I shld have declined the offer to spend the night with him because I have been royally F%$#^7 since then, thanks to myself. I am tired of waiting… hoping… yet my head win’t let me give up becauseI I think I deserve more than being flavour of the moment but my actions and choice of man say that maybe I don’t really know my worth since it took very little for me to go on this wild goose chase… I’m sick and tired of myself and these stupid thoughts, just want to be happy with ne again, no guys just me but I need to get past this illusion I conjured up and I am sick, of it, sick of myself. vent over.
Astelle and Gaynor,
There is a time to tell someone to take a hike and a time when it is WAY too late to do so. Unfortunately, if you have not recognized what you are dealing with soon enough, then yes, the best way to go is NC. I have had these types of “relationships” before, and it is freeing to be able to see these for what they are and have your say. You see, when you pick the right time to say “See ya'”, it helps you to put the period at the end of the sentence. You are not asking “What is he thinking, Why isn’t he contacting me, Did he really mean to be mean to me” etc. It’s called closure.
What if a guy does initiate contact but plays it hard to get and tries to constantly put you down and make you run away? I’m very confused I don’t know what to do with him, I stay away but he comes to me, I have no idea where we are goind. I told him I care for him and he disappeared for a few days but then he came back again… We had no physical contact yet so I know he doesn’t come back for the sex…
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unfortunately this is very true.,…..and whas worse is to get a polite person….They will deal with you and that crumb becomes your feast. Let a lone someone who cares for you. Anyway….cold turkey is cool….but i almost want to let him know that i know whats up…….and apologize. But maybe it wont be necessary.
I am delighted to have found this site having googled “psychology of obsessing about your ex’s new girlfriend”! I met my favourite EUM again last weekend. We had gone out with each other for two years, that ended over two years ago. We had sex maybe 5-10 times in the second year (and about 5 of those times was over one weekend, when he came back from holidays). He, that whole year, withdrew from me in every way possible. Infact he withdrew from life in general.
All fairytales are lengthy & i find myself wanting to ‘explain’ (i.e excuse his behaviour & believe he did love me, so could still!). But one bit is different, he is and has been a friend of my sisters since they were teenagers. So I have a direct information source & I enquire. I know he has been dating a girl twenty years his junior for 1 & 1/2 years (he’s 39), I know his life hasn’t changed much & all the things I hated are still in place. I know he broke me, I know the boyfriend before him did too, he was abusive in many ways. I know I put myself there and kept myself there both times. I wonder was my head-fuck from the first one a cause on the next. All the usual stuff I suppose, looking for excuses/reasons.
I didn’t see or contact EUM for a year after we broke up, he would send me texts “I am a fool, I couldn’t see the woods for the trees” that he “may have lost the best thing that ever happened to him” and I resisted all of these. And I have even used THAT as an excuse, had I replied would things have been different?! Then a year later I bumped into him & drunkenly gave him shit – I was looking for an apology, I told him he owed me one, but he refused. Again I didn’t see him for a long time, but I could hear about him and his lovely girlfriend who he was getting on really well with anytime I felt like it. Then since May I have seen him four times. All times unplanned, twice I knew it was possible & I loved the idea. Last weekend, we crashed out together in my house. We talked alot, He took blame! He was sorry! His girlfriend is away for the summer as students are wont to do, I could see the light in his eyes when he spoke of her. She has two more years of college, he said “so i have her for another two years”. But I know from my sister that he sees it going nowhere, too much of an age gap, she will go and live her life eventually. His parents don’t know, her parents don’t know. But he is holding on as long as he is allowed. I have a want for this to be karma, that he is much more in love with her so is now in my position. But if karma is massaging the situation that too grates because that means he really, really loves her & didn’t me.
You can tell, I’m not over this one! But this site I suspect will help. Focusing on myself is about the hardest thing ever I could be asked. I might fail! But my mood is good, I got an injection, I have been doing more for myself since he slept beside me & I could smell him than I have in months. I wonder if a fix every now and then may not be beneficial! Not in the long run, I know this, but but but
I recently had to let go of a very twisted involvement. It’s been a little over 3 months since I sent this fool an email telling him that because he chose to do what he did not just to myself but more importantly to my son that it was a complete deal breaker and that i no longer wanted to either see or hear from him again.
Has it been easy for me? Honestly it hasn’t but i do know in the long run I made the right decision to let this idiot go and destroy somone else’s life with his madness.
It gets better everyday that i don’t hear from and have deleted all forms of contact about him. The sick part about all of this is that even though I said I never want to hear from him again and fruly in my heart mean it this time that there will come a day where he will go against what I told him and rear his ugly head once again.
These men are very sick. I am so glad I finally made the final decision to get out once and for all.
Hi, I just wanted to say that I stumbled upon this site by accident and started reading it and am I ever glad I did! You see, I had went on a free singles dating website last year and started seeing a guy who stated he was seeking a LTR as was I. He is a very prominent and upstanding business man. He called me at least 3-5 times each week and asked me over to his place that often as well. The first time I met him I loved everything about him. Well, its been a little over a year now and he has never asked me out on a “date” since each time he asked me over, it was to his place and always for sex. I have recently started coming to the realization that it was me and only me who fell hard for him and he doesn’t feel the same way about me, boy do I feel stupid! It has been 7 days since I have called him and he certainly hasn’t called me, he has only emailed me. I have wasted over a year of my life on him hoping he would come around to feel for me as I did him, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL THE ARTICLES I READ BECAUSE I NOW KNOW I CAN GET ON WITH MY LIFE AND GET MY SELF ESTEEM AND DIGNITY BACK! Thank you thank you thank you…
Wow i so needed to read this article its exactly what im going through right now…letting go is hard to do but so worth it in the end!!
Hi, thank you for this info. I’m in frantic search for answers. Please bear with my story: I was in a relationship for about 2 years with the love of my life. I’m 33 and she’s 25. Our annivesary will be next week. Beginnin life was for a lack of a better word “perfect” in my sense. Really healthy relationship, although she did just get out of another relationship. She told me that she felt she was was going nowhere with him. So, we got together before she even broke off the last relationship. At that moment I was so in bliss that I haven’t even really thought bout it until now. I came from a very dysfunctional family. I never met my parents until I was 5. I can count the times my Mom and I spoke at endearing level which is less than 5 times. After my birth, the 2nd day I was sent a to “Nanny’ because my mother couldn’t care for another child. She came from a wealthy family in which they saw me as another “shotgun” mistake my moom made. So I never really knew what loving emotions were. I have an idea of it by books, tv, etc. So many years went on and with very destructive dating behaviors. My relationships never lasted for more than 3 months. Being a nightclub DJ didn’t help it either. I pretty much gave up on that fact that I was ever going to find the right girl. Until one day she came into my life when I wasn’t looking. Don’t get me wrong, it was like any relationships,we had our ups and downs but always managed to pull through. I felt lucky to have a g/f in which she never saw my professional life as a DJ. I took it as a blessing and basically “threw in all my eggs” in the basket with her. She knew that. I tell her all the time. It took just 1 month for her to move in with me. I was so happy and I never felt better. After a year, things were rough for her. She didn’t talk to old friends because of her bad break prior. She got laid off from work. She felt she gained weight but I didn’t see it as a bad thing. Being in a relationship meant compromises, committements, and sacrifices right? She tried looking for a job in this bad economy to no luck. So I suggested her to go back to college to get that degree which needed 3 more classes. I paid for her schooling which I felt it was proper for a loving b/f to do. Well, here’s where things went crazy. I noticed she was more needy. She was home alot more. I’ve realized at that time I couldn’t give the extra attention she needed. I was stressed on my business, supporting both of us and trying to maintain a healthy relationship. I knew that things need to change or else we’d be in a bad downward spiral. This is the rough part in a relationship in which I think true couples ride out together, I accepted the fact that it wasn’t always fun times. I never even thought about breaking up with her. Until one day she got a job offer overseas (from what she told me) We’ve talked about it and I realized that I can’t be selfish and need her to go for that job. We both agreed upon her going back first for 6 months while I tie up loose ends and make sure my business here will stay afloat. I was committed to fly back and forth because I loved her. I was sad but I needed to let her go blossom back again. Things were so busy with the move, her saying goodbye to friends, dinner parties that I never really had a final moment with her. But i felt that she needed to see her friends and say goodbye and all that stuff. We moved all her things back to her mom’s house and I saw her get on a plane. I can still remember that last kiss, It haunts my so much in a good way. She left and I’m here with our baby dog and it was time to get our plans in effect. I had appointments lined up which I hinted but never really told her. She always complained that I got her hopes up so I didn’t until I got the job. Well, I did get that position overseas and I was just about to tell her and then BAM! The wicked email break up was her move. She wanted this relatinship to end “amicably”. I’m thnking to myself , is that possible in an email? I’m reading this Baggage Claim article online and it sounds like her but I don’t want to believe it.
Something happened to her in that plane ride. She got so bitter towards me. She uses words like “disheartened” and how I got her hopes up. She said she grew up and realized. I don’t know what still she realized. Of course I didn’t back off without a fight. tried calling her, she avoids the talk. She said she doesn’t want a relationship and just want to have fun. No committments. She wanted me to do things for myself but I still want to beleive that a person can do it for anyone he or she choses for. I felt the strength from her that I’m able to do anything. She was my inspiration.
It’s been a month of constant fighting. I try asking what’s wrong. She doesn’t give me straight answers. THe last time we spoke she told me that she’s moved on and going to see other people. My business was not good but it’s getting alot better. In fact, I can say alot better.
I tried even sending flowers and apologizing. All failures, I’m beginning to think that I’m not the problem and she is hurting me so bad and trying to push me away.
I just don’t get it, or maybe I don’t want to believe it. I’m able to forgive her right now. I do want her to gain her strentgth back over there. That was our original plan, I asked for a a second chance on us. I admit that I’m emotoinal right now about this. I need her to know that I was for real in this relationship. I just can’t believe how she just changed overnight. I understand a 25yr old girl needs space but for her to execute it like this? Breaks my heart, distraught…. but I still find it in my heart to forgive her as long as WE communicate better. I don’t know what i should do now. Its hard to think that my last 2 years was purely a joke? I never cheated, abused, or lied to her. She thinks I’m emotionally closed off but I’m trying to be realistic. It all came as a surprise to me. I know she sees me as a good boyfriend. But how can anyone deserve this? The worse was the email break up. That is soooooo not cool. I’ve racked my head for weeks shredding myself apart to figure what went wrong.
DId I spoil her too much? Is this her way to see if this is real? DId I get played like a chump for 2 years? Did she think I was going to break up w/her first? Does she need space? Or I’m just an old rag left to hang?
Please, someone, tell me what to do. I can’t think anymore.
thank you all …
I will update you all… It’s hard to let it go when we didn’t even try……sad
I have just received a voicemail message on my mobile from my long standing assclown. I have been seeing him for 22 months [since November 2007] and he always told me he never wanted a relationship. On top of that he hardly ever took me anywhere, and whenever we did go anywhere it was always me who instigated it [and paid]. Basically, i let this poor excuse of a man use me for all that time and i got miniscule crumbs in return. And very poor treatment at times.
Then in June this year, he randomly announced that he had a girlfriend!!!!!!!! [remember, he told he he was not looking for a relationship with anyone] And get this! He explained to me that he had always faniced a particular girl since the age of 21 [he is now 33] but nothing happened between them back then. But in May this year, he randomly bumped into her on the street and he asked her to be his girlfriend on the spot. They did not even court and they had not seen each other in 12 years!!! And she accepted his girlfriend invitation.
Well, this man has continued to sleep with me since the arrival of his new girlfriend. I hated myself for doing this but i just couldn’t stop it. It was like i was addicted to him, the sex and the physical attraction. But the more i continued to see him, the more i became disgruntled at having to be his SIDE SHAG whilst some other girl [who, unlike myself, has invested zero time in him] takes the glory of being his official girlfriend who gets to be paraded in front of his friends and family.
So when he called me last week for a booty call, I TURNED HIM DOWN. Because i rejected him [i rarely do] he told me not contact him again. But i did. In fact, i was so angry and hurt by the disrespectful way i’ve been treated for 22 months, i started to text him everyday since our phone-call, sending at least 3 a day! I know girls! I turned *psycho* on his ass, telling him how hurt i am about him taking up with the new girl, and it felt like a dagger to my heart. I also accused him of being cold and selfish and having no consideration for me and my feelings. I also told him that him and the girl will not last and that he is going to miss me and want me back in his life. I couldn’t help myself. I knew sending him all these texts was the wrong thing to do but i felt compelled.
I received NO reply whatsoever to my texts….. until today! after i sent him yet another 2 texts. The last time we were together [around 2 weeks ago] he was telling me that he would like to be having sex with me long into the distant future [even around 10 or 20 years from now]. I did not say anything at the time, but today his words crossed my mind and i became angry. Since he has made it clear in no uncertain terms that we will never be a proper couple, I felt that he was assuming i was going to be dumb enough to continue being his secret side-shag for the next 20 years of my life.
So my 2 texts this morning addressed this issue and i told him that he was absolutely crazy and he would never get me to waste my life, fulfilling his pathetic pipe dream as his bit on the side [whilst he gets on with is life, building a proper life with another woman], and if he was going to be sleeping with me 10 or 20 years from now, it would be because we were HUSBAND AND WIFE, not as a side shag!
As soon as the texts were delivered, he immediately called me, but i did not answer. He then left a voicemail message on my mobile telling me that my all texts are now pissing him off and we need to go our separate ways. I replied, cursing and swearing at him, telling him i’m glad i finally pushed him over the edge. I also told him to leave me the f**k alone now from now on.
Needless to say, he never replied to that one!
I have his girlfriends phone number and for a hot second i felt like calling her an telling her all about me and him. I even dialled her number but there was no reply. Now, i have thought against contacting her as i know it’s not going to bring me any satisfaction.
I hate myself right now, for being such an idiot to let a man treat me so badly for the last 22 months. This is not my pattern at all!! I still don’t understand how this man got to get away with murder. I am usually a woman of high self esteem, high expectations and firm boundaries. I know it sounds hard to believe but i am actually used to good treatment from guys!
HOW DID THIS HAPPEN TO ME????????????
When i used to tell my friends about me and him, they’d look at me like i am MAD to stay with him. I started to feel judged so i stopped talking to them about us.
I really do hope i will be able to forgive myself, as i feel so ashamed to have allowed such blatant liberties to take place.
But now that I FINALLY got a reaction from him after all those texts, i feel like i can start to heal and move on now. [yes i know that sounds pathetic as i should not have to wait for him to tell me to leave him alone before i decide it’s over].
Day 1 of “No Contact†starts tomorrow.
Wish me luck girls! I am about to go cold turkey. I feel it’ll be successful though because i have now angered him so i dont think he’ll be contacting me now anyway. And i am now too embarrassed to dare contact him again.
On the other hand, we have gone through worse incidents in the past and we still got back together so i really don’t know for sure whether or not he’ll try contacting me again in future.
If that time does roll around, i really do hope i will have the strength to tell him to go to hell,
Ok I know this is a site for women but I had to post this anyway.
Alright so I was seeing this girl for the last 5 months who lost her husband 2 years ago in a fishing accident. From day 1 she was completely upfront and told me she wasn’t ready for anything serious because she wasn’t over her husband. I was fine with that but after our first date I totally fell for this girl and was on my way to this heart break that’s happening now. We started slowly then grew into something more. I met her 2 little boys, was staying over 4 nights a week some weeks, we even took the boys on a trip this summer. The whole 5 months pretty much went like this, when we were together we acted and were a couple, when we were apart it’s like we weren’t anything and I’m not sure if she was dating other guys but knew she was on some dating websites.
We both agreed to end it on Monday because I felt too much for her I couldn’t be casual and she said she just couldn’t commit to me even though she wanted to.
So it’s day 5 of no contact and it’s like I feel worse everyday. I miss her and her kids so much it hurts. I go from missing her, to wondering what she’s doing, if she met some one else already, she’s occupying my thoughts almost all the time.
Everyone keeps telling me this is the best thing to do but it feels so wrong. I was with her on the 2 year anniversary of her husbands death and it was the saddest thing I’ve ever seen. I liked that I was able to be there for her on the tough days, which there was a lot, now I feel like I’m letting her down.
I know there was no relationship like the one I created in my head but it kept growing and we kept getting more close during the 5 months. I’ve never been this heart broken before, even when I broke up with my fiancee a few years ago. That was hard but this seems harder and feels so wrong.
Just wanted to post on here to let it out because I’m feeling so bad. This is a great site and glad I found it 😉 Sorry for being a guy.
Brian–don’t apologize for being a man! I can empathize with you. I too was warned, yet I thought he would eventually come around. How could he not? I treated him like a king.
I’m glad I found this article. I am done begging for crumbs. I’m going to end the illusion that is not a relationship. This article described my situation so well that I can’t help but end it. My only question, do I call him and tell him I’m done begging for crumbs or wait until the next time he decides to call me. I’ve cried so many tears and written so many journal pages about this man but still I want to be with him. I’m so frustrated with myself.
HEATHER – I ended my virtual relationship with an email. I needed the formal closure. It was worth it to me. I had already put myself out there emotionally, so it wasn’t like I had anything more to lose. I’m not ashamed of my feelings, especially because I know he liked me at one point and got me in the “zone” so to speak. I would rather be able to hold my head up high and let them know that I’ve got the situation figured out and will be fine than give him the satisfaction of getting away with avoiding the issue. I would just call him if I were you. Why wait? If you’re really done, then be done. Respect yourself sooner rather than later. You’ve probably given a lot to this guy. Now it’s time for you and, once you heal, somebody worth your time.
BRIAN – I am really sorry to hear your story. I can only imagine how hard that has been for you. One of the first things we must look for in new people is whether they are emotionally available (after we make sure that we ourselves are, of course). Most of us have made the mistake of falling for someone who is emotionally unavailable. We just need to be more protective of our hearts so that they can be whole when the right person does come along. I noticed that you posted a month ago. I hope that you’ve been healing during this time.
I guess I committed the cardinal sin, I fell in love with my female flatmate.( I’m a guy)
I have been living with her for just over a year and at first it was all fine, I had strong personal boundaries. I found her attractive but she was my flatmate so I knew it could get difficult if I allowed myself to get silly!
After about 6 months my other male flatmate moved out to live with his girlfriend and things changed.
We all went out for a goodbye drink to wish my male flatmate well and it seemed to me that I was suddenly getting signals from this woman. It really took me by surprise to say the least. I kinda backed off from her a little bit as I was acutely aware of our domestic arrangement.
As time went by and another guy moved in I could see my feelings change in front of my eyes. We had some really intense chats, talking about the deep stuff, what drives us, what makes us scared etc. She said to me that she was frightened of the guys she found attractive that often she found it really difficult to touch them for fear of rejection. She said “I don’t want my heart broken again”.
Like a doofus i thought she was trying to tell me something.
Well it went on from there and I thought we were moving closer and closer, I was preparing myself for a relationship or so I thought.
(Just over a year ago I came out of a 7 year relationship, so for me this felt like a big positive step to take!)
Then just last week she told me she was moving out, this floored me…now 6 days later her stuff is all gone and I’m left reeling.
Her moving out prompted me to send her an email…I told her how I felt in a very adult and non-confrontational way.
She told me that she didn’t feel the same for me, and that at times she got the impression that I liked her but she didn’t know what to do about it.
We can never know what another person is feeling, it maybe that she did indeed like me but just could not bring herself to do anything about it for a variety of reasons. It could also be the case that she was totally honest with me, that I completely mis-read the situation.
She has gone now I guess, but this article really resonated with me, I think I rode that donkey, I got so carried away with all my hope and expectation that I just couldn’t see the truth.
This week has seemed like a roller-coaster, she moved out, I told her how I felt about her, she stated her position and we went back to being friends again.
I don’t know if she will stay in contact…I would like to, maybe that’s the part of me that still thinks I was right that she really does like me ( there’s that damn donkey again!) and wont admit it.
On the other hand we get on really well, she makes me laugh and I value her friendship, so it would be a shame to lose that.
Its time to look after myself…real or not I have put myself through the ringer in the last 6 months. Hoping she would call or text me wishing for something more.
If anything “Take things at face value so when she doesn’t call, it’s because she doesn’t want to speak with you, not because she’s waiting for you to make a move” is the best thing I have read in a long time.
That is great advice, its time to heal…
Hi. I am really glad I’ve found this website as it has confirmed so much for me. I Am currently in a relationship that only exists in my head, however, I wanted advice bc upon reading a lot of the other comments, my situation seems a little different… (aka “not as bad”) I think.Â
I have been with my EUM for 19 months now. In the beginning, he actually didn’t pursue me, but was very distant (I just labeled this as cautious and saw it as a challenge). He told me upfront “I am not seeking a relationship right now”. He’d said that he was so hurt in the past that he doesn’t feel capable of love and vulnerability until he is absolutely sure the person is “right” for him. He’d also been laid off and was having trouble finding work (as am I) and still lives at home with his mother. He expressed that as a Man, he can’t enter into a serious relationship and give it the focus and attention it deserves, when he is still struggling to get his present situation and life together. We’d argue over this bc I was in love and I felt slighted in the “relationship”. I was giving 100% out the gate, and not getting it in return. However, once I stopped pressuring him for a committment, things became so beautiful between us. I’ve met most of his family, (his mom loves me-she told me lol), all of his closest friends, we spend mostly all of our time together, ppl remark what a beautiful couple we are, there is no more distance or disappearing acts, he is so affectionate (publicly, not just privately as before), just EVERYTHING changed.Â
Naturally, because his “actions” changed, I saw him as MY BOYFRIEND, and I thought he did too! Then the unthinkable happened. I received several very detailed messages from a woman recounting every detail of their “relationship” for the exact sane time frame I’ve known him. I was devastated. Long story short, I forgave him, but I cannot forget it. We fight about it every week (this happened about 3 weeks ago). He told me he never took her out not once and that although they saw each other somewhat consistently, it was more of a friends with benefits thing for him. This woman told me that she was in love with him, would cook for him, spend money on him, provide him a place to stay, etc. In my mind, I’m thinking he was just enjoying all of the benefits she was dishing out so eventually I was at ease ESP after learning they’ve been over for weeks and she wrote me out of spite and jealousy bc he’d always talk about me with her (she knew so many details about me & I’d never heard of her in my life). Â
OK so anyway, the trust is now GONE, and I hate to say, but I do sneak through his phone. I’ve seen texts from females, but they are honestly pretty innocent stuff from girls like “hey, it was nice talking to you, I wish I could finally see you in person”, etc. 2 days ago, we got into a blow up over the fact that he’s seeing other people. He said they are his friends, he hangs out with them, but that’s it and he’s not going to cut them off bc they’re his friends and they did nothing wrong. He said he doesn’t go on dates with them or do anything physical with them bc it’s not like that. He said that I am his “preference”, his “Main”, I am the one he thinks about and cares deeply for, but when I’m not available and he doesn’t wanna talk to or hang out with his guy friends, he calls his female friends simply as a past time.Â
Last night, I told him we should consider a break from each other bc we’re not healthy for each other right now and the other women thing I cannot accept. He told me that is not what he desires, he said he can’t be in a relationship with anyone right now bc he doesn’t feel he has much to offer. He said sometimes he is so depressed about his current life (jobless, living home wit his mom,etc) that sometimes he doesn’t even want to wake up some days. He said I don’t even realize that I am his source of happiness & I give him reason to get out of his bouts of depression. He said he just really wants my companionship and patience with him although he cannot promise that the future will bring about a committed relationship. He says in the year and half we’ve been together his feelings just have not grown to “love” and being as strong as mine, but it doesn’t mean that it won’t.Â
I guess my point is: on the surface we actually have a pretty good “relationship” and I do know he cares for me. He doesn’t use me for sex, he doesn’t disappear, I hear from him everyday, I get messages about how he’s thinking of me everyday, he takes me out on actual dates on a weekly basis and I never pay, I hang out with his close loved ones like they are my in-laws (and he pressures me to meet his loved ones, not the other way around, just FYI), he has met my family and hung out and enjoys my closest friends as well, the list goes on and on and on…. YET, he still keeps maintaining he’s Not ready for a relationship. Â WHY WOULD A MAN DO ALL OF THESE THINGS FOR NO REASON??? This is why I feel so conflicted when I try to leave him, because his actions say I want a relationship, while his words say “I’m not ready”. Everyone says actions speak louder, buy in this case, Which do I listen to??? Am I just looking too deep into his actions and purposely ignoring the inevitable? I guess my biggest problem is that I’ve heard of women playing this “game” with men for YEARS! Although, I’m only 23, I feel like I don’t have that kind of time. I want to love a man, and he loves me back. Simple as that.Â
I should add that I have a pattern of dating EUM’s so yes, some of the blame is definitely on me! But I really care for this man. Is there any hope???
Hi Candi:
I don’t think there is any hope, as you ask, because you truly are in a relationship that doesn’t exist. This guy has been two timing you, has a narcissistic harem of female friends, and it sounds like he has been jobless and living at his mom’s for the duration of your relationship. He stated upfront he is not ready for a relationship. I think you are being a little delusional when you say the situation is “not as bad” as the other stories on this site.
Perhaps the reason he became less distant with you and is in continual contact with you is because he knows that you accepted that there will be no commitment from him and that you will be there for him, taking whatever he does with his other women. And the text you described does not sound “pretty innocent”. His female “frienships” are not appropriate.
He doesn’t want to say goodbye, but it appears he would be content to string you along indefinately. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t disappear, you have a good time when you are together, you hear from him everyday, you are close with his relatives, etc. If you are going to look at his actions, please focus on the actions where he cheated on you repeatedly and likes to hang with his female “friends” .
This site has alot of great information about emotional unavailability, and if you want to stop your pattern of EUM’s, it is a wonderful resource. I think the most important thing is to look within yourself and your past and family relationships as to why you have a pattern of EUM’s and would continue to care for a man who treats you so crappily.
Candi,
Actually, his actions and words have shown you he is incapable of a relationship. The two of you have been together for 1.5 years and he is still telling you that he is unable to commit and doesn’t know what he wants. How much time does it take? I think it is so important to listen to what they are saying and believe it, I think you said he told you from the beginning that he was incapable of a relationship, respect these words and believe them.
Hon, I would move on from this man, he is not going to change and it is unfair to expect him to. Please don’t waste anymore time.
Carm & Gayle:
Thank you so much for your insight. You all are absolutely right and deep down I know what needs to be done. In my heart, I know that this little pseudo relationship I’m in is going nowhere. Even if this EUM changes and becomes emotionally available and wants a relationship, it won’t be with me. That’s how it always happens.Â
I went through his phone again last night and noticed the woman who sent me all those msgs about their “relationship” that was going on at the same time as me and his 1.5 year “relationship”, has popped back up. The message was saying something about, “it’s been awhile, I just wanted to see how you were doing”, but I know it’s only going to go further. Soon they’ll be back sleeping together & I’m a little afraid what I might do if I find out. I know I need to get out of this now before it gets any worse. But it’s so hard! I don’t even know how it’s possible to hold on so tight to NOTHING!
I realize that I am EU myself. As I said before, I have a pattern of involving myself with EUMs & I’m never alone for long. Only way I’ve managed to leave EUMs in the past is by replacing them with another one. And I do know where this stems from (as far as my childhood) but it doesn’t make it any easier to change or break the pattern. I know I don’t “love” him or even want to be with him, but I cannot be alone. I think leaving him and being alone is like admitting and having to accept how broken I am. That’s terrifying. I almost rather be hurt by him, than accept that I’m really the one hurting myself. If that makes sense? Does anybody else have this same problem? And if so, how did u finally overcome it and walk away successfully?
this post really helped me, iv been serching for something to give me advice on a situation that i know is ridiculous! i have liked this guy for a long long time but we have always both been in relatonships, now im single but hes still in one, just last week we had a few drinks and got talkin he told me he was really unhappy with his girlfriend etc etc and that he was single, so after outrageous flirting for all our friends to see all evening the enevitable happened and we got together, wen i text the nxt day, him and his gf were trying to ‘sort things out’, BUT if he wer to become single i would be the first to know….wat an insult!!!!regardless i continued to text that day as did he but hav heard nothing since, i wish i had told him where to go that day as i realise if i do it now, over a week later i will look like a raving lunatic, im goin now to delete his number so i cannot do any damage and save wat dignity i have left and try stop thinking about him and how he ‘wants to be with me really’…haha us women really are nuts sometimes!!!
Sweetie187
Your story is just like my story. it is amazing how much things are similar.. are we talking about the same guy -;)))
Like you i had always very good relations and i am used to good treatment from guys and then i met EUM and i became an doormat.
I’m wondering how are you doing now?
Since i let my EUM broke up with me.. i did’t contact him anymore for 2 months now and i feel i’m going to heal very slowly because i’m getting more and more real.. thanks NML for that!!
Sometimes, I can’t help but wonder why certain sites such as Baggage Reclaim, so many self-help books on “how to cope with a Peter Pan”, “Women who loves too much and the Men that hates them”, “Men are from Mars… you get my point.
Now I come to this post and wonder, are we (women) just imagine these things in our head? Are some men really being the jerks that they are, they’re actually so simple, that we (women again) make things much more complicated than what reality really is?
Are women over analyzing things like I am now? Are we just a gender that has no other life than to serve and please our men?
How are our famous feminists would think of us now that we’re in a new century? If me of them were alive, they would probably look at us in here and wonder why we are still unhappy?
I know being a feminists has nothing to do with “feeling” hurt, however, as women today, we all have much, much more choices than our predecessors. We all have choices and to see that a lot of young women today are still being “stuck” in a submissive position is really bothersome.
“The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn, but to unlearn.”
—Gloria Steinem
We all need to “unlearn” all these teachings and notions that us women have to “serve” and “stand by your man” bullshit! Yeah, would he stand by me if I go and screw another man while I’m married to him or would he stand by me while I go and get drunk out of my mind every night with my girlfriends, go through our money and not have enough for food and rent and just “leave it up to the man” to come up with rent money our of thin air?
Yeah, I don’t think so either
Ladies, we need to stop! We need to empower ourselves! We need to read books and learn from women like Gloria Steinem, look her up at the library! Look up famouse feminists women and see how little rights they had back in their days and how much they all suffered for us to have the right to vote! The right to have legal abortion! We are living with so much freedom and we’re trying to bind ourselves with these idiots who could careless if we get run over by a train in front of them!
We all need to stop wondering if we were in a relationship and they only way to stop that is to continue growing. Empowering ourselves. Look at NML, she’s a great example of a feminists helping us women. She’s empowering us with information. She’s a wonderful, kind hearted, compassionate woman who is trying to make us all understand that we, women have to stop our bullshit, romanticism of these ACs and EUMs who have moved on!
My theory is that men are no more liberated than women. – Indira Ghandi
We all need to stop thinking about those stupid Hollywood movies ladies and find something in our life that would mold us into a woman who you want to be! A woman who discovers the cure for breast cancer, a teacher, an attorney, something with more substance. So we are so busy doing those things that we won’t have time to “imagine” and wonder if we were truly in a relationship.
NML, in the few days since I’ve discovered your site, you have rekindled the real woman in me. You’ve given me the strenght and understanding to keep moving forward and get a life. You’ve rekindled my creativity, the part of me that I’d neglected, my feminine emotions, the part of me that I need to grive, the lost of my father and the part of me that refuses to have anything less than what I want, a full, real life.
Thank you NML for empowering women.
This is a great article.
Im in the process of taking a back step from a toxic relationship and ending something that doesnt really exist. It will hurt very much as i truly have never felt this way about someone before ( i hear you all laugh)
My problem is that not only do i work with this MM hes my boss and sits 20 feet away from me. This is probably the most stupid thing i have ever done in my life.
My marriage is almost finished and this MM has made me realise that i shouldn’t be married. As far as im concerened, what i have done is wrong and i shouldnt be with my husband. I’m getting my house in order wether or not my boss wants to be a part of it.
I’ve reached the conclusion that i am in control of my life because i’m sorting it out, its clear that i dont love my husband otherwise i wouldnt have done this. I may regret it but i have to make the journey to move forwards.
As for the MM? i know now he’ll never leave his wife and children becasue he said “he has it too easy at home” He declares love for me, desire, i’m his star employee but im begining to see that its all take, take, take. I think he knows i’m starting to take control and is clinging on. If he’s as kind as he perceives himself to be and loves me as much as he says then he’ll respect my decision and we’ll remain good friends and maintain a successful working relationship.
Wish me luck.
I must say that after many nights of googling “why does he ignore me” and “why does he love to have sex with me but not want a relationship” and reading the standard “he’s just not that into you” responses, finding your article has finally given me a feeling of resolution.
I currently have had two mental relationships with guys who have made it clear that they are in no way interested in having a relationship with me more than an occasional hook-up.
In both cases I initially thought that I could change their minds by just being the awesome person that I am..and extra nice. Of course, that failed. They were clear, and I just couldn’t handle it. On some level, I accept it..as I move on. I do, though, hold out hope that they will recognize what a horrible mistake they have made and ask me out again. It hurts, damn it. I am an: intelligent, educated, pretty good looking, physically fit, sweet, genuine, self sufficient woman. Men tell me that I’m amazing in bed, seductive, sexy, nice, and fun but in the same breath, that they’d rather not date me. I don’t think I have low self-esteem. I may have low impulse control. Recently, I had a breakthrough. I pulled this really cute guy that I had had a crush on, and who flirted with me often, for a while into my room during a house party and kissed him. He kissed me back and we went at it for a minute .I kept him from undressing me and he confessed to me at that moment, that he hoped I wasn’t looking for anything serious. I promptly ushered him out after telling him, I wasn’t into the hook up thing. He hasn’t contacted me in any way since. I still don’t understand why I can’t find a guy who wants to have something a little meaningful with me but at least now I’m putting an end to one method of self abuse. I had been offering myself up to be used. No more though. Once again, thanks for writing such a good and helpful article.
Much appreciation, EM
EM–your comment “i have been offering myself up to be used,” pierced my brainpan and swiftly. i guess i don’t feel special because i allowed a man into my life who treated me very badly. loneliness will drive a person into some awful places, and i just gave over the wheel to a destiny i have romanticized.
and used i was, but for only briefly. i have been doing much reading and subsequent thinking about ME and just what MY problem/s is/are. one thing is for sure–i UNDERVALUE myself while at the same time acknowledging how wonderful i am. “i am awesome and great! now come over here and use me like a well-worn punching bag!”
this fella’ i had ahold of me has perfected his game over the years, and i was like a little lamb at the altar. almost every post about Mr. U on this site has applied, and i courted the warning signs instead of the man. humiliation came quick and fierce. for that i am grateful.
i am so glad that we both are recognizing our own flaws. who gives a hoot what
“their” issues are? i don’t jump out of planes or hang glide for thrills. i accept romantic challenges that are impossible to sway into lasting love. perhaps i have commitment issues, too. one day while he was “behaving nicely” and spending time with me, had his bare feet up on my couch as i was cooking for him, i was overcome with panic that THAT moment would be as good as it got and would be until the death of me. when he was shown to be the coward user he really is, i jumped on it with both feet as all the excuse i needed to abandon ship.
strange, after only a few days i am smiling again. certain songs don’t get to me, and i am most looking forward to getting a tan this spring. a tan. that is the joy i have grasped onto. now if only he can respect my boundary of no contact. i have forced his hand on this in a very serious way. before he may not have believed me when i would say “stay away and don’t call–quit going to the places i go that you never went to before.” if he doesn’t listen this time, i can make a phone call and have him jerked about by the authorities.
the sun is going to feel good on my too-pale flesh. and the realizations of myself are going to be good to know.
I’ve been reading the posts and even purchased the e-book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. In addition, I thought others who are on this site and possibly experiencing/experienced the same as myself might be able to give me some insight. A little background on me is that I am currently married with children. Yes, I see that all this is wrong on so many levels, but I’m looking for feedback and insight to getting out of this situation and thought this would be a non-judging place to seek it. So here it is in a nutshell:
16 years ago, while in college, I met a man online who lived in another country. He flew to my hometown to meet me a few months later. It was wonderful, we enjoyed each others company and there was a connection. We spent a wonderful (non-intimate) weekend together getting to know each other and then he flew back home. Two months later, I flew to his country and met his family and friends…but things were different this time. He was cold and distant and wouldn’t even hold my hand. When I asked him about this, he became defensive and said nothing was wrong. I even asked if there was someone else and he said no. Needless to say, he broke it off with me a month after I had returned home saying he couldn’t handle a long distance relationship. I was devastated, we hadn’t been together 6 months but I felt a real connection with this person. As the years passed, I thought of him and wondered if he thought of me. I met a wonderful man and married a few years later. All these years, I never seemed to be able to get this other man out of my head. A few years ago, I had a job which required me to travel, I ended up a few hours away from him and called to say hello…not sure why, but I did. Again, wrong I know. He was happy to hear from me and I from him. It was a quick hi, how are you call and that was it. Several months later, he called me at my home to do the same. Years later I found him on a well-known website and sent a friend request, which he quickly accepted. That brings us to last year. In addition, he is now married with a child as well. Like I said, wrong. After finding each other again in January, he sent me long emails detailing how he had regretted what happened during that visit all those years ago and wish things could have been different..he says he even sat in an airport a few weeks after we broke it off all those years ago and was too scared to get on a plane to see me because he
thought I wouldn’t want to see him even though we should have had a chance to see if things could work out (but he didnt get on that plane & history was made).
We began emailing each other everyday (he even said talking with me was the best part of his day) and then it turned into late night chatting online talking about our lives and the occasional “what if”. But, this abruptly stopped in the spring and he would answer my emails occasionally, only giving vague answers saying we would “chat soon”. Months passed and I couldn’t get him out of my head..ever. Obviously I had made a relationship/thought more of what had happened in my head between us that only I believed to exist based on our communications. The more time went on without me hearing from him, the more I wanted to hear from him and thought of him. Then out of the blue, I heard from him in September and ended up flying to his area on business and hoped to see him. Yes, we saw each other and the spark was still there (we were not intimate as we are both married) just had lunch & talked for hours. I thought there could be a great friendship at the least. Please know, I have never even thought of straying from my husband all these years until this man returned to my life, which is very confusing to me. When I returned home he began texting me all the time saying how he missed me, asking about my day, etc. and I responded accordingly. Again, this abruptly stopped and I continued texting him to which he would reply “you shouldn’t get so upset if i don’t immediately text you back” (I hadn’t heard from him in days). Yes, I even see a pattern here. There would be weeks I’d hear from him everyday and then a week would go by and I wouldn’t hear from him at all. Then, I made a special visit to his area a few weeks ago with the intention of seeing him..I thought this would be a way for me to get resolution or answers after all these years..maybe even forget him for good. When he found out I was coming, he began sending texts again saying how he was looking forward to my visit and everything that we would do while I was in town. In short, he saw me for 2 hours of my 5 day trip there to see him (no intimacy, just talk considering I was mad I hadn’t seen him after all those days anyways)..when he left he said we’ll make this a ‘to be continued’ until I come see you. Everyday I was there something would “come up” that would keep him from seeing me. Now, I’m back home and the texting stopped. Yes, this was our only method of communication. I even sent him an email explaining how I felt about traveling all the way to see him & getting 2 hours, and that I can be casual friends if that is what he is also looking for, but I just need a straightforward answer. Well, 10 days later, he says ” did get your email, sorry i havent responded to it. not really sure what to say. im sorry that your trip here did not go as planned. even though you may think i was trying to avoid you, that was not the case and again im sorry if it appeared that way. i will shoot you a response to your email later ok. hope you are doing well, chat soon”. As of the day I received this email, I started the No Contact rule. It’s just hard letting go of someone that’s been in my head for 16 years. Any insight would be appreciated.
Complicated–
You are an ego stroke to him. Think of him as an old crush, and let it go.
I’m sorry, but he has already given you the answer.
Complicated, this man has repeatedly disappointed you with non-response, through his actions he is showing you that he has no intention of pursuing anything further- He sounds like he stringing you along with his off and on again texting.
If you are happy with your marriage and love your husband, why are you pursuing this? Do you want to lose your marriage over someone who doesn’t seem to care?
Gayle,
Thank you for your response. I’ve always thought I was happy in my marriage as nothing like this has ever crossed my mind. I consider myself to be a pretty intelligent woman and honestly don’t understand why I’ve even allowed myself to be a part of someone who doesn’t seem to care. I wish I could just get a straight answer from him so I could move on…and frankly don’t understand why he won’t give one if he really isn’t interested. I mean wouldn’t it be easier to get rid of someone you didn’t want around by just telling them you are not interested?? As I mentioned to Over It below, everytime I have seen him in person (twice) the past few months, he kept saying “I’ve always been a loyal person to whomever I was with.” So maybe his not contacting me is him trying to be a good man, husband to his wife and him being confused about all this. When we were in person, I asked him “how do you feel about me?”..his answer was “I don’t know.” The problem with not hearing from someone is that you don’t get any answers so we end up making up our own assumptions. I asked in an email I sent him if he just wanted to be casual friends I would do that, but he just said I’ll respond later. What do I think of all this? Thanks for your advice….
Complicated,
This is the first time I have ever posted. I had an experience with one of these guys last year, that really threw me — I’m over it, but whenever I find myself making up stories in my head, I like to visit here for a reality check.
Your post really scared me.
STOP. I am begging you.
This magical guy from long ago (same with mine) is 99.99% a creation of, and projection of your own morals and goodness.
He is FAKE.
You have a REAL LIVE HUSBAND who loves you.
Consider yourself extremely lucky that you did not get caught
texting with this fantasy guy. DESTROY every bit of every thing that could ever link you to him.
Go to Youtube and listen to Carly Simon sing “The Stuff that Dreams are Made of” — yes, I know this sounds lame, but just do it.
Project all the magic that you wasted on that loser back onto the great guy who commited to you, and thank God, that you didn’t end up with that idiot. Let him be his poor wife’s problem.
Go be the joy of your husband’s life, and let him be the same to you.
Over It,
Thank you so much for your comments. They are very much appreciated. Can you please tell me how you got over your similar incident? The thing I just can’t understand is: how does a person like him say/do the sweetest things one minute and then not even act like he cares the next (which is what he has done to me again now)…I.E. he is currently not texting, emailing, etc.? I think it would be so much easier to just move on if I had this answer, but it plagues my mind. Thanks again!
Complicated, my heart really aches for you.
Trust me, I know the agony and confusion
that you are feeling.
Read the “Return of the Childhood Sweetheart” posts.
That will help.
Also, find the old posts on “blowing hot and cold” and how these guys “manage down your expectaions.”
You’ll see that your Mr. Once Upon a Time’s behavoir is not at all unique, or sad to say, even specific to you. This is just how he goes through his life.
I know I told myself I held a special place in my Mr. Once Upon a Time’s heart, but in reality I’m sure he had many sad versions of me through out the years.
Forget about getting an answer from this guy, because it would only be a lie. What could he possibly say?
“Well, Darling, you’re a very lovely and accomplished woman, and knowing that you care for me boosts my ego. I’ll say whatever I have to say to keep you around. Sorry if it weakens the bonds of your relationship with your husband, but that’s not really my problem.”
Okay. I sound wise, right?
He wasn’t good for me, I saw it, I stopped it.
Well let me tell you I went through the ringer.
He was all I could think of all day; and I cried every night.
I hurt my career. I hurt my health. I hurt my pride.
But I did end it, and never have spoken to him again.
Here’s the *.
When you cut contact, you’re supposed to block email,
but I didn’t. And the reason is really childish.
Every month or so, he emails me and I get total power boost
from ignoring him. When he sounds sad or sincere, and I start to forget how he treated me, I come back here to remind myself that this guy can never be my friend, because he never was.
That’s how I saw your post.
Please. Toss or delete everything and anything that might be even marginally incriminating if someone else sees it.
More importantly, think about the true character of this man.
He doesn’t respect his wife.
He doesn’t respect your husband.
He doesn’t respect you.
Is that the woman that you are?
Someone who hangs onto a loser like that?
I know that you’re not, or you wouldn’t be here.
Find your inner Barbara Stanwyck and kick
him to curb. The End.
Don’t answer any communication from him ever again.
You will feel stronger and stronger every time you reject him.
And for God’s sake, get back into your marriage, Girl!
You do not want to lose your husband for some nonsense you made up in your head.
Respect your marriage.
Respect yourself.
And give Mr. Once Upon A Time all the respect he deserves too — NONE!
Over It,
You really seem to hit the nail on the head everytime and are so accurate in what you are saying. I will be checking out the article you told me about. I guess it’s just me that is doing all the contacting since he obviously doesn’t care. I’m probably afraid that if I stop communicating, I’ll never hear from him again because it was always (for the past 16yrs) me who was making the effort. It’s so hard to see into someone’s eyes and truly believe what they are saying and then have them do the opposite (of no communicating period) when we aren’t together. I didn’t mention this before, but everytime I have seen him in person (twice) the past few months, he kept saying “I’ve always been a loyal person to whomever I was with.” So maybe his not contacting me is him trying to be a good man, husband to his wife and him being confused about all this. When we were in person, I asked him “how do you feel about me?”..his answer was “I don’t know.” The problem with not hearing from someone is that you don’t get any answers so we end up making up our own assumptions. I asked in my email I mentioned I sent if he just wanted to be casual friends I would do that, but he just said I’ll respond later. So, I can’t even get a grip on where I stand…which I know shouldn’t matter, but discussing it here does seem to help. I don’t know. Just tired of thinking about him day and night and if I really don’t stand anywhere in his life it should be easy to move on…right?
BTW:
If I could just receive some communication from him to ignore…maybe I could get that little piece of strength and power boost you mentioned LOL :). Is there anyway to get closure from someone who doesn’t give you the opportunity to get it…wow, isn’t that the question of the century? If ANYONE has any suggestions on this, please send them my way…
Since you are not heeding all of the advice above (which, BTW, is excellent, not to mention UNANIMOUS) in that you are not choosing to look at his actions and you are not choosing to just flat out ignore him:
You could turn the tables on him. ACT LIKE HIM. So, first, pretend you only JUST got his email (and let him know this–you write, “sorry for the late response, but I have been out of town, on business, and only just saw your email”) and, second, give HIM the message that HE is the pest in YOUR life. You coudl tell him this, flat out (though that would look too direct/vindictive/whatever), or by implication (please stop emailing me. I do not want any sort of communications from you, or to speak to you, ever again. You are annoying, a manchild, and a waste of my time).
Then delete all evidence and NEVER respond to anything from him again!
What a little boy! He never made a decision like a man in his life. (BTW, you have every right to tell him this, too!)
Complicated,
You said you are doing all the contacting and questioning re. the situation, where is the ambiguity- He didn’t even have time to tell you where things were at? I hope you don’t ruin your marriage over something that doesn’t exist.
What is it that you’re lacking in your current relationship that is pushing you towards this man?
Complicated, what do you mean by “closure”? What exactly could he do or say to give you closure? Explain exactly why he did not choose to pursue a relationship with you?
That’s what I have wanted when I’ve been on the receiving end of a break up. My exes probably could not explain why they didn’t love me…just that they didn’t — and really, would it have helped if they could have?
This guy doesn’t sound like he has a clue WHAT he wants, much less why.
His behavior tells you everything you need to know.
He did not want you badly enough to make the effort to have a real relationship with you sixteen years ago.
He blows hot and cold.
He is willing to text or email you behind his wife’s and your husband’s back…he does not care that this could hurt you, his spouse and family, or yours.
I’m not trying to be mean. It sounds like you’re doing what I’ve done, building a fantasy around someone who has actually shown very little interest in you. I wasted years — years that I could have been enjoying a real relationship, and I’ll never get that time back. Don’t make my mistake.
You may be longing for him, imagining how great your life could have been with him. When you do this, you have to remind yourself of the reality. Remember how you felt when you visited and he was cold and distant. Remind yourself of how bad you have felt when he ignores you.
If you’re longing for him and are tempted to contact him….don’t lose yourself in fantasies of how it could have been or how great it was to visit him. Instead, imagine how hurt your husband would feel about so much of your attention going to another man. Imagine your marriage breaking up, and your children’s anger and hurt over that. Because that’s the reality, it’s what can happen if you continue your fantasies about this other man.
It’s probably not a good idea to try to be his friend. I always find that any contact with my crushes just leaves me hungry for more; it just triggers more longing and fantasy.
I recommend cutting all contact with him, and avoiding/getting rid of anything that reminds you of him. Keep yourself too busy to think about him. For me, keeping a gratitude or positives journal also has helped. I sit down in the evening and make myself write about things I appreciated or enjoyed during the day, even the smallest, dumbest things like a good joke or cup of coffee. Sounds hokey, maybe, but it reminds me that my real life does have its enjoyable moments.
You might also look at what about this guy appeals to you. What did you wish he would bring to your life, had the relationship worked out? Adventure? Passion? Security? Interesting conversation? Creativity? Well, whatever it was — what can you do to bring that into your life? Can you find a way that you and your husband could have more adventures, or passion, or whatever? Can you take up a new creative hobby, or find new friends to have interesting conversations with? If something is missing in your life…then you need to find a way to fill it. Dreaming about, and pursuing this guy won’t fill in the missing parts — it’ll leave you with less than you had before.
Well, I got some texts from Mr. EUM tonight starting at 10pm. The whole ‘conversation’ lasted all of 4 minutes. I’m so upset that I broke NC by communicating with him. He texted and said “you there?” to which I responded “what’s up?”…then he said “not much how are you?”. However, when i texted back “tired, you?”…I didn’t even receive a response to my question. I feel like such an idiot. :(.
Well, we’ve all “been there, done that!” It’s so hard to let go, and break off contact — that’s why I keep coming back to this site. NML and other posters have said so many wise things here. I need to be reminded that I have a tendency to confuse what I WISH were real with what IS real in relationships. The dreams may give me temporary pleasure or escape in the short run, but misery in the long run.
An insightful friend said to me once — “You can use whatever happens to you, even the bad things.” Don’t beat yourself up about slipping and texting the EUM back; we’ve all done things like that. But DO remember how it made you feel — maybe you felt a little excitement when he texted you, but how did you feel when he ignored you? Embarrassed, rejected, disappointed, angry at yourself? Whatever you felt, remember it — and think about it the next time you are tempted to contact him, or respond to his contact. Ask yourself if you want to feel that way again.
Just wanted to write an update. Tonight, is one full week of no contact for me. I’m focusing on the positive and taking things one week at a time…easier than thinking I will never hear from my EUM again (or at least until he needs an Ego boost). I’m hoping when that need of his arises, I will be stronger and more able to just delete the text or email without feeling the need to respond. I still feel sad obviously, but I’m not brought to tears on a daily basis thinking about my EUM. Everynight, he still appears in my dreams though, but hopefully this will go away with time. It still really bothers me that a person could say & do the sweetest things for months and then just abrupty stop communicating with me the very next week!(?). This unresolved area/ambiguity is the hardest part honestly.
The “nothingness” and “non-communication” and simply the thought that he could just discard me so easily and quickly is the stinging part, but I guess the resolution will have to come from within….thanks to everyone on this site for being so supportive and here for one another. You are all truly a blessing.
This is absolutely perfect. I am so glad this person had the guts to get down to the nitty gritty and even be mean about it at some points. This was probably the starting point for me to start moving forward from a “relationship” that was really a guy telling me what I think I wanted to hear, then I found out he is with someone else and they are moving in together. Thanks so much
wow i can so relate, my assclown EUM is just something else, the hardest part is all the things he said.. like awww when *WE* are engaged, i dont mind you having your own life.. yeah right.
Still cant believe i got played. but Karma is very sweet.. and now I’ve moved on..
By responding “tired – you?” you are giving him the impression that you’re still “there” for him – he’s thinking “phew… she’s not THAT mad, she still engaging conversation, i still got her. NEXT!”
This piece of shit feels no need to even continue with that conversation… 2 WORDS from you, and he’s satisfied.
He goes on with life while you sit there kicking yourself feeling like a rejected loser. Probably spending the next 2 or 3 weeks thinking – why the hell did i respond? Waste. of. Time.
(I’m sorry to be harsh,… i’ve been there it’s devastating,)
Exactly.
Also, given the exchange, it sounds like she may have broken NC and written him first. If that did happen, then he may not have responded b/c of the reasons you stated AND b/c he wanted to “teach her a lesson”–to not weake him up late (hence her concern for him, as shown by the “Tired–you?”).
She is giving him a major major ego massage being the doting ex-gf while he gets to feel great about his attraction and manhood FOR HIS WIFE, the one he CHOSE.
Pushing.Thru – you are so right on!
Used – Nope I didn’t contact him. This will be 3 weeks of NC, which I’m very proud of! Every day has been a struggle, but I’ve done it. Unfortunately, I was weak enough to respond to his text, but it happened and can’t be erased, so moving on. It was more difficult to ignore someone than I thought it would be…but I’ve never been one to just up and ignore someone. Have to work on that part :).
Take care everyone and stay strong!!
Glad you didn’t write to him first, especially since you showed so much empathy toward the (yes!) Piece of Shit with your “tired, you?”
No excuses for his behavior. What a cowardly, indecisive jerk.
Complicated,
Just came upon your post.
I don’t know if you recall, but I read you the riot act when you first came to this site.
Sorry about that, but I felt like since there was a husband in the picture, I wanted to at least try to get you to snap out of it.
It seems like you’ve gotten a lot of good advice here.
Stay strong.
I know, easier said than done.
Will be thinking good thoughts about and for you,
and sending good energy your way.
xoxo
I discovered this site after weeks and weeks or trawling internet sites on commitment phobia, fear of intimacy, passive aggressive, anything that I could get my hands on to give me validation for the way I am feeling. i cannot handle it and know that this has become an obsession. I feel empty inside and completely broken. I dont recognise myself anymore. I have panic attacks, dont sleep, dont eat and live and breathe this relationship. I know the way that I am is completely unhealthy.
I had been dating my ex for nearly 2 years and it has been only 2 days since I last spoke with him. In typical style in the beginning he came on strong, was extremely charming, flattering, kind, fun, adventurous, everything that you could possibly want in a guy. Although he was so different from my usual type. He asked me to be his girlfriend within 2 weeks. He said I was everything he had been looking for. I ignored the warning signs of the fact he had been single for 9 years since the break up with his ex, who completely broken. Once bitten twice shy dont they say. He also has extreme childhood problems but im not going to get into them.
Within the time of us being together he must have broken up with me over 20 times. I know how ridiculous. We have done the ‘dance’ so many times that I am dizzy. The usual happens everything is amazing, he loves me more than anything, we love each others company and then as soon as it gets a little close for comfort he withdraws, starts being critical, hurtful, inconsiderate and cold. To say it is the worst kind of mental torture is an understatement. It really is like going out with Jekyll and Hyde.
I am told I am very beautiful and know that I am attractive to the opposite sex. I am very creative, intelligent, outgoing, kind, caring, empathetic, fun, spontaneous, loving. Yet overtime this has killed my confidence and filled me with so much self hatred and self doubt. I have lost over 3 stone and feel like I dont know who I am anymore.
He tells me that he loves me and says that I am everything he wants in a gf but that he knows he will keep doing this to me. He suffers from anxiety and panic attacks when we are together. I love him so much its ridiculous. When things are good they are so good. But I know that I am only in love with the good side and I cant see the bad side going away anytime soon. He is in therapy now and his therapist has advised that his problems are so deep rooted he will need long term psycho therapy. I am understanding of this but to who’s expense? I give everything and get mixed messages in return with no sincere commitment. I went to counselling and was advised that the only way that you can change a person is by changing yourself and the way that you think.
I have pleaded and begged and yet I cannot control the way he feels. We are both sad when we are apart but I know deep down that right now we are not healthy together. He needs to sort his shit out and I need to do some soul searching. I realise that I have my own problems to address. I have come to realise that we are not that different in that we are both driven by fear yet we respond in different ways. My fear of being alone forces me to reach out, where as his fear of closeness, intimacy and commitment force him to withdraw. I know that if this situation continues it will only get worse and I will feel worse.
A part of me feels he is my soulmate as we connect on so many levels but know I need to be strong. I have become a shell of a person. Sometimes I cant even feel. I have other important things going on in my life, I am only 24, but even doing things that interest me leave me feeling empty inside.
How do I move on and start to feel better inside, as right now I feel as if I am dying?
Cherry Kook,
Darling, you are very young to have to deal with something like this, even those of us on this site who are older struggle when we come across these type of men. You do have a lot of wisdom and see very clearly how damaging being with this man is and yet it is difficult for you to break away. Simply put, you are both involved in a dance of destruction, each of you bringing dysfunctional, unhealthy patterns into the relationship. You are step perfect, you compliment each other. thats why he feels like your soulmate, but trust me, he is definately NOT. A soulmate is a man who is capable of healthy, functional loving, who can commit to a relationship and is not afraid of intimacy, who makes you feel good about yourself, who loves you just the way you are, and this man is none of those things. You should be proud of the wisdom and insight you already have about the relationship – you mention your fear of being alone for instance. The first thing is to cut contact, hard though that is going to be, because it is time to look after yourself, do what is best for YOU, look after the little girl inside you who is being emotionally abused by this unhealthy, dysfunctional man. Download Natalie’s No Contact rule book and stay on this site, it will help you maintain NC and you will learn an awful lot from Natalies posts and the experiences of the women here. Also, find a female pyschotherapist, a pyschotherapist has the right expertise to help you unearth the root cause of why you are with this man and why you find it so difficult to leave someone who is clearly destroying your physical, emotional and mental health. Don’t wait darling, put yourself on the road to recovery and happiness RIGHT NOW. You have your whole life ahead of you. Lots of love and luck, you can do it..
PS I was involved with an EUM for three years off and on and have been NC for five months since finding this site;, it was very difficult to cut him off to begin with but now each day takes me further along to road to a healthier, happier me..
Lucy
Thank you so much for your reply, it was insightful and inspirational. I know that everything you say is right, I just wish it wasnt so hard!! I know that the only way for me to end this awful situation is no contact. However, a part of me feels guilty as I feel like I am deserting him in his hour of need. But like a friend said, if he loves me as much as he says he does he will prove it and move mountains for me. I do believe that people can chance (maybe that is me being slightly over optimistic) but why would he when I am accepting him as he is and his treatment of me. I know I need professional help as to realise why I have accepted his behaviour, I do believe it may have something to him being slightly like my father, who also suffered an emotionally available parent and behaves like a Jekyll and Hyde. Maybe I am trying to change history? All this knowledge and wisdom is all fair and well but understanding and moving on to a better place are 2 different things. I want to feel better now as this is killing me.
Thank you so much for your support. X
Hi Cherry,
Hope youre completely over this loser by now! How are you???
I was wondering, as i was reading your post: what was he treated for? Was he bipolar? I wouldnt be surprised. Let me know!
Hope youre well and happy now, and completely recovered by now. You deserve to be happy, and in a healthy loving relationship. Youre too young to “die”, emotionally.
Unless you are ready to follow through with any threats of leaving and enforcing NC then it’s been my experience that no matter how much to curse them out, tell them to leave you alone etc… all they will do is blow you off and wait until they think you have calmed down and pop back up hoping to get a foot back in the door.
IMO it’s not over until they say it’s over if they know you aren’t serious on your end.
Debbie
You made a good point because some after going through so many repeated cycles of breakups with the same EUM they don’t seem to take you seriously and they wait until they need they’re EGO’S struck again and try and pop back into your life… That’s why I think its important when NLM stated that you really have to be aggressive about the NC and go past the times that you failed and gave in.. Mean business in other words.. You have to paint the picture by not giving him any open door back into your life and that includes a door that’s cracked so keep them closed. By the end of this month; I’ll be hitting a home run with NC… His birthday is this week and I wish him nothing but KARMA…. it has its own GPS and it will find him soon.
Bottom line about these men is this they will use every trick in the book and then some to get you to cave in. They will keep coming and coming until they know for sure they have kind of chance of ever getting back in no matter how many times you curse them out.
I have been NC for more than 3 months and haven’t heard boo from him nor do I care to. Unfortunately I can’t control what he does and when he does it including trying to contact me.
What do have control over is me and my life and how I choose to live it.
Cherry Kook,
You are probably right about the connection with your father – repeating a past pattern so this time you can conquer a situation which when you were a little girl you had no control over – a professional will be able to help you with this.
You said you feel guilty about deserting him in his hour of need – but what about deserting YOURSELF in YOUR hour of need? Believe me, I know how hard It is to walk away from someone you feel you are deeply in love with, but your head already knows something is very wrong here, being in love does not mean being in pain, and in time your heart will catch up. In the meantime apply all that compassion, love and understanding you were giving to this dysfunctional man to yourself. Your friend sounds very wise and is right, as Natalie so rightly says ACTIONS speak louder than words. Take care of you and be patient with yourself. When you go NC it will start to get better, bit by bit, no one said it was easy but the alternative is more pain and you have had quite enough of that already. It helped me to keep a diary to pour out my feelings every day and it is wonderful to look back and see how far I have come. It is a journey Cherry Kook – to a whole, happy, healthy new you who will be ready to embark on healthy functional relationships. Take good care of yourself, we are all here for you.. x
Lucy
Thanks again for your reply. I downloaded the no contact book and read it, and couldn’t believe how much like our situation it was. Yet, low and behold he calls yesterday and I call him back?!!!!!!! What is wrong with me. Why have I no will power and self respect. What was he calling for… oh because he wanted to see how I am. How the fuck does he think I am. He has ruined my life. I am at University and I cant even do the work as mentally my head isn’t there. Whilst he just gets on with his. He says he’s sorry. He doesn’t even know the meaning of the word. Why do I want to be with someone that treats me like a doormat and like I don’t exist!?! He says that he realises we are just too different and that he needs to be with someone ‘strong’ – what exactly is strong?! I was strong before I met him and he trampled all over me. I know I am sounding like a victim here but I hate myself for being like this! This is the text he sent me afterwards ‘i think we cant be friends. we both need to move on and i will continue with my treatment. i am sorry for what i have done i never wanted to do it but you never challenged what i did so i came to think it was ok. I need to be with someone who challenges me and you need to be with someone really nice and loving, a person more like you. We are just too different and need to let each other go. I am glad i met you and will miss you like crazy but this will get worse. Your worth so much more and need the right person to give you that. I am not that person. Take care.’
If i had a pound for every time he has said something like this and come back I would be rich. Why do I let him do this to me?!
I am hurting beyond belief.
Cherry
He is only using that as an excuse to have one foot in the door and one foot out knowing all alone that he doesn’t want to have a right relationship with you because he simply can’t. EUM’S have issues communicating effectively and having lasting relationships. I had been through repeated cycles with my MR. EUM and narcissts male so many times and we wouldn’t talk for days and I’d be NC but he’d know just when to make his entrance back into my life with the phone calls of oh i just called to see how you were doing.. That highly dis qualifies as any real reason to call me in the first place when in fact you already know how I am doing.. Moving on with my life!! Use your own judgement but I advise if you want some sanity; dignity; and some power back from this emotionless man that you stick to NC and move on with your life… This sounds like the same story with all the comments but just a different chapter…. Same ASS CLOWNS!!
@ Cherry,
I was 25 when my EUM, who is 10 years older, divorced with child said something similar when i confronted him for the first time on his unstable behavior … “I know what you want and need, I CANNOT GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT. i’m incapable of doing that.. you deserve better”
I told him to get out of my life… and that’s when things went bananas…
He started to call more often trying to pull me in, i fell for it every time, and the treatment became worse, my self-esteem was at it’s lowest point… i took whatever i could get.
(There was a point i started to think that him holding my hair back while i pleasured him was a sign of love… *shudder*)
I have also had comments on my looks since I was 13, always managed to turn heads, very outgoing, full of life, caring, and free spirited….which actually made me feel worse. Made me obsess on how someone like HIM wouldn’t want someone like ME.
I’ve learned EUM’s, or A typical men, if you’re communicating through FEAR and WEAKNESSES, it doesn’t matter how gorgeous you are.
Although – if this guy manages to land a “stronger” woman, she will be going through the same difficulty once he “lands” her, just a matter of time – it’s who he is.
I’m now 27, still thinking of my EUM…. it’s been 3 years.
Stay here, read and learn, it will take some time to get your self-esteem back up there,…I haven’t reached that point, and not ready to give someone a fair shot… but I have faith that it will come…
if i can do it, you can too.
Thank you, I feel truly inspired, same thing happened to me exact same thing.I am a work in progress and hope to reclaim once again my self esteem that was left for the knackers’ yard.
Peace x
May I add – almost 6 months NC
BIG HUGS!
Pushing.Thru
Thank you for your reply and words of wisdom. It appears that there a lot of this type of male out there. After telling him he was emotionally unavailable his reply was that these men simply haven’t met ‘the one’. How deluded are some people? Like in NML’s book Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl she states that they are not the right man for anyone, yet they fail to realise that. Right now I am so unhappy. I had 2 panic attacks and have never felt so alone in my life. I know that I have many issues to address but don’t even know where to begin on my road to happiness. I am lost and lonely and my heart is destroyed. I want so much to be happy with myself but dont even know where to start.
Thanks to everyone. Lots of love. 🙂
Ouch! This hurt a lot. But I also got swept up in a relationship that was primarily in my head. I allowed myself to be sucked in by his many “One Time in Band Camp” stories, started hanging out with him, and before I knew it, I was crushing on him HARD! Never mind that he had several friends-who-are-girls; never mind that he never asked me out; never mind that he seemed to be stringing along several girls at once; never mind he could be rude, abrupt, and commanding; never mind that I initiated most of the contact between us, etc. He put up with it for a while, and now he doesn’t respond at all. I just fell for it all because I wanted to. I don’t really blame him, although he did flirt with me. It just wasn’t serious from his point of viewpoint. It’s too bad. He’s my first real crush in a while, and I have to admit that it was fun falling–at least for a time. Now I realize I was being ridiculous, and I feel like an idiot. I feel embarrassed, and I’m working to recover my dignity.
@ Cherry,
I just read your post – i’m so so sorry to hear that.. i know how you feel. I’ve been there, still trying to come to terms with the fact that it was all in my head, how humiliating!
I also suffer from anxiety, and it was at it’s peek when i was “with” him – in my mind of course.
There was one time that i freaked out (he had probably stiffed me again or made plans with me that night and never called me as i waited for his call/text like always ALL night long)
and he responded with a text saying “your gay, ttyl”
I couldn’t even breath from the anxiety i felt that night.
I hope you have continued with NC…
Pushing thru
You made a good point it does not matter how gorgeous you are.. these type of men clearly don’t care.. They are incapable of having committed relationships with any woman. So it clearly doesn’t matter. My emotional unavailable ass clown narcissist ex was the same way. I don’t know if his EGO was as big as his big ass head was… (sorry but I hate him).. and I know hate gets you no where but I’m thankful that he treated me the way that he did cause now I know what to never settle for. No matter how good it looks cause what looks good to us isn’t necessarily good for us. This is what I have learned. I have been NC going on two 2 months now and I don’t even miss him the least bit. He’s probably somewhere sucking what ever piece of money he can out of some other woman cause the only thing he does well is USE the hell out of you until you have nothing left to give… I am so glad that I finally woke up…. and had the courage to cut him out of my life. GAME OVA!!!
I have to say that everyone one of the comments made on here is exactly what I went through…and it is so comforting to know that people are in the same “boat” as I am ….or now gotten out of. It’s amazing how a person gets so wrapped up in what the “EUM” is doing that it takes away the things that used to make you really happy…or when you go and do things and he is not putting himself there with you…you think automatically what’s wrong with me…what can I change about myself to make him want to be with me…I went through this cycle…time and time again…It was like a roller coaster of emotions….HE CONTROLLED when he wanted things to happen or what BENEFITTED him at the time….and I just wanted him there. I am an outgoing, beautiful, caring, makes people laugh personality, helps family and friends, considerate, stubborn at times, and motivated person….why not me?! It was like a fantasy totally…he would say things that would trigger…me thinking that we will be happy together someday…but then he would state that he was “Scared of Committment”…but that he still needed me in his life…he would tell me to wait for him..that someday it may be….NOT…lol…On my part….I needed the folgers so I could “wake up and smell the coffee”…I made it easy for him to pop in and out of my life…I did that part to myself…and as I grow older I find myself wanting more…wanting to move to the next chapter in this journey I call life….when I started noticing more and more the things I want to do and develop into the person I am meant to be….I see him slowly disappearing…I cared for the EUM for 2 1/2 years….in the beginning it was so fun….one night that stuck out was we were invited to a bonfire at my sister’s house…he put himself their with me..and we had the best time together….I remember that night the most because it was 3 months into the “So Called Relationship” and it was the last time I felt like we were normal…I don’t hate him…dislike him…or even want to wish him bad in life…because I believe that is negative energy and “truely being happy” requires positive energy…and basically a waste of my time…Think of YOU…hang around people who make you feel good about yourself…talk about your feelings….and know that you are not psycho or going crazy because you feel the way you do…know that you have the power to create change in yourself…you do….you can’t go back and change anything about the relationship that you are going through…the only thing you can do is live for the now and make plans in your future that focus on “YOU”….being happy..that person you once new…of course you are going to be different because this “So called Relationship”….has happened. You can’t change your past but you can make big plans in the future!
My EUM used me for his “Ego” trips…when he needed someone to lift up his spirits…I was the one he called on….he would bring up other girls..or he would try to make me jealous for his pleasure of playing “GAMES”…and I fell for it everytime…over and over again…I could feel dumb for doing it but when you think you care for this person so much and they know what to say and when to say it…it’s easy too….Now I look at it as a lesson learned 🙂
I have learned so much from this EUM…and I have wonderful people that surround me everyday that I would drop them to run when he texted/called…which most the time in the end was when he had been drinking….it’s amazing the words they try to persuade you with then…but your head gets full of fantasy or the “Somedays”…or “things will change”!
I think about him everyday and struggle to have this person out of my life…but that is when I think to myself…I have all these wonderful people that are in my life telling me what an awesome person I am and “Someday” when I’m ready…..Mr. Right will come…I just turned 28 last month…and everyday gets brighter and brighter…I got flowers…over 100 “Happy Birthday Wishes” on my facebook wall…and calls/texts…It made resurance to me that this one person EUM – should not take anymore energy from me….Everything works out for the best….it’s believing in yourself that you can over come it! I’m on the track of recovery…but I see a bright future….he will tell you that he “Misses You” and play games with you still….but know “You” need to find a better place. Don’t get me wrong…not everything is “Honky Dorry”….and I think of him often….but we aren’t good together because I will always have the feeling of wanting more and I’m not settling or saying it’s okay for it to be this way…I’m saying NO….and standing up for myself to want better.
THank you for having this blog….I am very much appeciative and am excited to be apart of…communicating is an awesome thing when going through a challenging time….if you have more insite…please share.
OMG I can not believe what I have been reading here within this website. I am in my 40s and for the last 4 years I have felt alienated because I thought I was the only woman who experienced nearly every single topic this website has mentioned. As I read through the advice from NML over the course of a month, I incredulously ticked almost all the red flag boxes! Then I read the comments and I wept with relief that I was not the only one, but I was shocked that there were SO MANY OF US long-suffering sisters out there!! And the guys could have all been one and the same person with their pathetic excuses and behavior!
It first started with clicking on a link to “Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl” when I had reached the end of my tether and sanity. All the signs were there in black and white. The same with EUM, then AC, “On again-Off again”, “The Other Woman”, “Drama”, “Talking and Thinking too much”, ED, …
I could not believe it! It was the “Wake-up!!!” call I needed.
I can happily say I am 6 weeks NC this week (Hallelujah!!!). No, it’s NOT easy but I wasted 10 years of my precious life for a long-distance romance with this OS jerk. We lived in the same country for the first few years, and then I saved (and wasted) my hard earned money to travel to see him. I should’ve known better, but he was initially a charismatic, caring, handsome, intelligent man, filling my head with promises, hopes and dreams, before becoming an unavailable, egotistic, cold, narcissistic, manipulating parasite! Parasites are by nature stealthy and not always easy or pleasant to remove once they’re under your skin (think: leeches, ticks) and the wound they leave behind does take time to heal, but with time it DOES heal.
NC’s painful, especially when I saw (ok, looked-up last week while I was still obsessing) images of him on the net appearing smug and gorgeous with a beautiful woman at a social business event. I know he was showing-off (he sent me a link to the site after all), but for the first time ever, he appeared so shallow to me and whatever happens, he’s still an AC… the woman with him just hasn’t found out yet.
So when NC gets tough, I ALWAYS tune in here for strength. When I feel weak, I read the advice and comments from others and it never fails to make me strong again. And let me tell you that now, without the constant din in my head from over-thinking my “relationship” and the aching heart, anxious from waiting and wanting to be loved but continually being hurt and disappointed, I am finally seeing through the fog. I’ve stopped depending on someone else for my worth. I’m thinking a little less and less of him every day and I can now clearly focus with logical thought on the right way to go forward…without the AC and his heavy, soiled baggage! I vow NEVER to settle for crumbs again! I’m in charge now!
Thank you NML and all you wise women out there. Thank you!!!
Brand New Day–
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
The key word you use is SHALLOW. These types of people, men and women alike, are SHALLOW. Who cares about the basis or the reason! They are shallow and lame. Period. How can anyone like this have a committed relationship?! So, b/c the women (or men) who are not shallow or lame, and who do want a relationship or commitment, don’t see (or may not want to see) their S.O. in this light, they get used/victimized/etc., then confused, then acquainted with this site (after googling “emotionally unavailable” probably, like I once did!).
What an idiot, sending you that link. Clearly, a show-off. WANTS to see you beg for him. NEEDS validation.
And don’t think you are the ONLY woman who supplied him (and who has the ability to continue to supply him) with the above-mentioned wants and needs.
Such insecure idiots. And they affect decent people’s lives. Well, as I say, “NO MORE and IGNORE.” Act as though they don’t exist; they effectively won’t (in your mind); and this in itself DRIVES THEM NUTS!
Used…
I love that: “NO MORE and IGNORE”. I think it perfectly sums up where I’m at!
It’s so true what you say, that it drives ACs NUTS! I’ve come across a couple of other ACs since my NC with my AC-ex, because now I can pick these players a mile off. And guess what? I ignore their “charm talk”, inuendo and their womanising ways and it DOES drive them nuts. They begin to talk louder and try harder to get attention or catch your eye. It’s hilarious how juvenile, predictable and obvious their behavior is to me now that I don’t rely on or need anyone else to make me feel good about myself. And the best part is… that I feel in total control.
BrandNew
You are at 6 wks NC so we are about the same and yes (Hallelujah!) It does get easier. When I drag I come to this site to get motivation to move forward. You made a good point about your AC; Narcissists ex. These type of men literally drain the life out of you. They are like leeches cause they take and take from you until you have nothing left. I cut mine off 44 days ago and I have never felt better!! Whatever woman he’s involved with is in for a journey to HELL… cause these type of men( Narcissists) are not capable of any thing that spells relationship or committment.
Amen, JJ:
“Whatever woman he’s involved with is in for a journey to HELL… cause these type of men( Narcissists) are not capable of anything that spells relationship or committment.”
They DO drain the goodness out of you, slowly but surely. I had control over my life and emotions before I met him. My AC was oh so clever to always make me feel that it was ME who was being unreasonable, not him. In the last couple of years I tried to break it off 2 times and he ALWAYS jumped to action to placate me back into submission. He was the master of control and like a prison guard, rationed out his attention just enough to keep me hanging in there.
I finally realised that he only ever contacted me when he was bored or down. He loved to boast about his exotic holidays but when I planned to visit him, even though he was so exited, he was always time poor for me, almost to the point of being jittery, like he had to be somewhere else. Whenever I was ill or needed a “shoulder to cry on” because of a bad day or whatever, he almost never replied.
When my health started to deteriorate (anxiety/panic attacks) I realised that this was really not good for me but it still took me over a year to do something about it. I think it was because I was afraid to admit I wasted such a long time on such a AC…at my age too. I prided myself on being intelligent and a good judge of character…he proved me wrong. Lesson learnt. My rose coloured glasses are off forever now. You know what they say…”Once bitten, …
Hang in there JJ. I’m with you and all the other girls getting their lives back again.
I was in a short term relationship with an AC. My own fault as he had told me before that we were not compatible, that we did not share the same likes and dislikes, etc. Fast forward to last week when he told me that while he liked me, he did not have the romantic or emotional attachment to me. He also told me that he slept with someone else and proceeded to tell me how aggressive the girl was. WTF??? I should have told him right then and there that he was right and that I agree that we should not be togethor. Whats worse, I sat back and plotted for a week how to bring him back to me. I sent him pics and xxx messages. He lapped it up and is now dying to come back for that free-no-committment-sex. Such low self esteem! (sigh!). Well I made a decision today that there will be no sex whatsoever from now on. NO FWB. I will not contact him and will respond to him if he calls but the response will be very polite but dismissive. Because the ‘relationship’ is still new and I played many games with him in the beginning (If he did to me what I did to him, I would have cut him off a long time ago), I will sit back and see if he comes to me. Right now he has the upper hand and I need to change that dynamic. So, I am letting him go. NC. If he comes back, then it will be on my terms and with him begging. I lowered my standards because I wanted him once before, but never again. I am much too good for that and worth so much more.
update: he came back from a trip and did not contact me upon his return. I don’t know why I thought he would. To add insult to injury, he saw me online and then immediately either hid himself or signed off line. My feelings, pride etc are hurt. As my best friend puts it “that piece of crap”. I wish I knew how to break and hurt him. I don’t hate him just really mad at myself for even liking him and thinking that he was a decent person.
I think that in the illusion the thing we lose most is perspective. When I got to see the full picture clearly I realized I was not even interested in him. I just needed to feel that I had successfully made another emotional conquest.
So my advise would be to get your perspective back and really really look at it without the need of validation and the fear of rejection. You will laugh at it all and then you will find yourself at peace… genius!
ps. In living this illusion we are our worst enemies
I love this post as it was one that woke me up a little over a year ago.
Recovery from assclownitus has been quite the journey for me. The thing that is on my mind today is the illusion factor..the arseclown fed me a confusing combo of measly crumbs which encouraged my active imagination to develop a big illusion of a great guy.
Constantly finding myself in that confusing place where the reality collided with the dreams/ fantasy led me to an instability that mercifully led me here.
Recently I have been thinking, just what was the perceived attraction of the future faker vision of him that I held on to for so long?
To answer this I had to actually develop a picture in my mind of what this illusion was all about. I found that I fantasized a belief of him as a calm centered stable loving person in my life. But I was surprised to see that the most important part of the fantasy was the calm and stable part.
Though this calm stable security is what I want, it also happens to be how he wants to be perceived by everyone. And he often told me how strong, stable, bla bla bla he was. But he really was not that man to me.
My big awakening came recently when i realized that what I wanted so much from him is what is missing in my life. I am coming to know that I need to find that sense of calm stable security within myself.
My illusion is that he would provide that to me. Of course, of all the people I have ever known … he was the least likely candidate EVER ! This actually makes me laugh, it is so illogical and impossible …what was I thinking ? Oh yeah, that is the fantasy part. Wishful thinking is not the same as intellectual thinking.
So, the whole point of the trying experience was that I needed to learn to find in myself the very thing I was hoping to get from him. I am guessing that we all seek different things but I’d encourage anyone here to think about the most appealing fantasy about the AC, and then consider how that trait might be within yourself.
@Romantic Dreamer…
You thought he would contact you?? More like subconsciously expected it! You will be let down everytime – a little more sand kicked in your face and your self-esteem deteriorates…
You are still in the land of expectations, hoping, waiting, wanting, wishing. Have you read all of NML’s posts?
We have all been there, in order to hold on to your dignity it’s time to
Let Go and Let God.
Get this Energy Vampire out of your life!
Much Love x
Pushing Thru–
Yes! Exactly! That is it! The subconscious expectations! THOSE, when unmet, are the real killers! And when they are not met and the stabbing pains and sand-in-your-face happen, you (should) learn the meaning of “he/she doesn’t have my back”–b/c they just backstabbed you!–and you (should) realize that this is the process of your self-esteem getting knocked.
All you can really do is leave. Say “goodbye” in your own mind. Saving yourself is the closure you have to have, and really only need!
Good post!
@Aphro Girl –
Love love love your post.
The mind is a powerful thing…. and it’s amazing how spiritually disconnected we can become… once i was back here on earth it felt so great giving myself what i needed so badly from him.
These type of men (narcissists; EUM’s) have lots of CONTR0L issues
as well. I remember my ex telling me one day when I was over at his
place one night out of nowhere his statement to me was “see I know what
your problem is; you are not OBEDIENT. When you learn how to be obedient we just might work. I thought to myself yea obedient? Letting you treat me like crap and using me as just an OPTION? NO LONGER!! I think back to him saying this to me and realize that it was all that he was about. I let him have that power over me and enforcing NC (7 weeks today) and cutting him completely out of my life allowed me to take back that power. He was furious and is still probably in DENIAL that I am done!!
After all they stay in denial because they’re EGO’s are too hard to convence.
what if he is your coworker…how would u avoid him? he always smiles and talks so nicely to me…we are “friends” right now..but doesnt treat me like a friend outside of work…he doesnt even wanna meet up to hangout with me anymore because he says that he is too busy and has no time. i mean we talk occasionally but its work related along with casual..how are u? ahhhh its so hard!!! wen i see him at work…if i give him a bad look or ignore him….it puts me in a bad position cuz i work with him and i gotta deal with him. idk…it gets even harder to ignore things. 🙁
This was probably the hardest article i have read out of all the articles i’ve read here at BR. Why? Because i was recently that girl the article was written about, getting caught up in a fantasy that was never going to turn into reality. I was involved with a guy briefly, who told me from the beginning that he didn’t want a long-term relationship but somehow i didn’t hear that part and relied on his words and actions to tell myself that he did infact care about me.
What followed was me putting myself through anxiety, waiting to hear from him, hoping that the texts and calls i got meant alot more than they actually did, and in the end i had a wake-up call from reality to realise that hey, it’s me who has created this so-called relationship in my head and therefore it is my responsibility to end “it”.
I don’t dislike him, although to be fair the person he was when i met him was completely different to who he was by the end of it all. I cared about him but i think as aphrogirl mentions, there was something about our so-called relationship that i want to have in life that i was seeking in him. I think for me that was closeness, affection, attention and to feel special. When i felt these things with him within a short time i assumed this was because we were meant to get together, when in fact he didn’t want that at all.
It turned out he had feelings for someone else which i suspected and asked him about. I was angry but realise now i had no right to be angry, although i was caught up in the fantasy and had been reading things into little things he said, thinking that he had stronger feelings for me than he actually did.
So, it’s been over 2 months NC and he lives in a different state to me anyway, i don’t look at his facebook or anything like that and don’t have any ill feelings towards him. I actually feel alot better about myself after finding this site and knowing i won’t pursue someone again like that who clearly doesn’t return the same desire to be in a relationship with me! But it takes these experiences sometimes to be able to move forward and after all the pain and anxiety i put myself through, it’s made me see what i need to address and that no, he wasn’t the right one for me but that’s ok because i know there is someone out there who will be!
I can totally relate to this, as I experienced the same thing. The guy I was interested in told me he was not looking for in a serious relationship. I was hurt, but I accepted it and backed away. However, he then turned around and started pursuing me. I was confused. Didn’t he just say he didn’t want a relationship? After a major make out session and my trying to get clarification about our “time together,” he blew cold again saying he didn’t think things would work out between us. This kind of thing went back and forth and forth and back until finally, for the second time, I cut contact with him. Right in line with his other narcissistic traits, he has supplies of women everywhere. If one doesn’t work out, he has another. I was just a temporary replacement for a “friendship” that went south. I saw him with a new victim this past Sunday, pouring out his tales of woe to her. I just had to keep it moving, because even though I’m disappointed, I’m finally free of the insanity.
Pirouette…. I had to laugh reading your comment, this is basically my story exactly. My heart felt that he really liked me but just couldn’t deal with the intimacy so I kept around waiting, hoping that it would change. But when the blowing cold became too much I had to get out. I was starting to feel used but the guise of friendship kept me strung along until I finally broke it and went NC. Guilt ensued… but that was the “nice girl” in me and I stuck with it hard as it was. After months of NC the heart catches up with the head eventually and you do see that this type of behaviour does not fly with healthy, kind, loving men. It’s the ones we need to avoid who employ these tactics to get what they want without having to pay with honesty, expectations, and commitment. It is true relationship insanity. He had so many backups… he has backups for his backups. And then the exes he convinced to be friends again. I realize now that he is just one big ego needing a constant massage. I see him now like a 6 yr old boy needing love from a mother. Sort of sad to view it that way.
“He had so many backups… he has backups for his backups. And then the exes he convinced to be friends again.”
LOL! Were we seeing the same guy? From what I know, the guy I liked had three main sources of supply: a rock climbing gym, a dance organization, and a horse ranch. I think he was trying to woo his ex(girl)friend back, but she’s not having it. I should have known something was up when she defriended him on FB. She’s a very smart, conscientious young lady, so I knew there must have been a good reason for her to cut contact with him. I wish I had paid more serious attention to all the red flashing signs before I got myself tangled up in his crazy web. I think I’m finally starting to see him for the person he really is, the person he actually warned me about but I didn’t want to believe existed. Off the pedestal he goes.
Oh, yeah, the guilt’s a mutha, ain’t it? But I had to realize I have nothing to feel guilty about. He doesn’t want a relationship with me, and I am under no obligation to continue to serve as an ego stroke for him. I am under no obligation to be “nice” to him. I’m making myself a priority from now on. Everyday gets better.
Hi Natalie,
I just wanted to let you know that after stumbling across baggage reclaim over a week ago, it has awaken me, it has changed my entire outlook on my relationship with my Mr. Unavailable. I lost who i was over this last year and half of trying to get him to see me and love me. I though if I gave him all of me, gave him all my time, supported him, forgave his bad behaviour,etc. that he would one day reciprocate, and he never did. He would tell me he had “love for me” but did’nt want a relationship, that he had “friends” but I was the one he would want to settle down with once he got his life together. I gave him so much of me that I lost who I was in the process while he gave, and I accepted, the crumbs he gave me. After reading your posts a lightbulb went off in my head and I am letting go and feeling empowered. Im learning who i am in relationships, why I fall for these men and how to notice the red flags, for this I thank you.
I loved your post it is exactly my story. I total gave every ounce of myself ot him. I still have a problem though thinking he is looking at me like a fool and laughing to himself. Do any of you ever feel or felt this way?
Thank you for having this site I thought it was just me that was feeling like i am, he took me for a mug and I let him, I know now from you it is because i have no boundaries- but it hurts so much i still cry.
It was about the great sex, I thought he was the one- how lucky was I -.
nice hotels and dinner dates, he made me feel really special, when he was there–then the gaps got bigger, he was too busy at work i kept making exuses for him.
He only spoke to me on the phone twice it was all texting- I have spent days on this site now, embracing how it will be for me from now on. Thank you all for writing these posts, I will get there.
Hi everyone,
I miust say : ouch. Well, I have stumbled on a pattern of not one, but two continous cycles with this one! The first one at the start was my best friend… and i continued to hang around, accepting bread crumbs for a long time . Seven years!! I kept waiting for him to turn around and not take me for granted. He grew tired of me, his family never approved. but he seeked me out whenever he needed something , and I gladly accepted because I just couldn’t get enough of being around him. I kept accepting small gestures of ” if only you were this way then maybe …” but truth be told, he never really promised anything. He knew how to keep me there, because boy when t was over, it was over.
He was always criticual of everything I did and I always felt like it was a privilege to be around him!!
Whenever things happened to me, he ended up saying it was my fault, I was a liar, etc but really it was just excuses beause the next month he started seeing this other girl. At the start he was denying it, but then he disappeared for months and acted like we never were friends or saw each other. Even then, I refused to believe it.
And then, I had a dream and realized he was engaged. Which he was. He got married a couple months later…
Which leads me to sitution number two. in order to escape situation number one, I went to see another boy and by this point I had moved away as far away as possible in another continent. He was sweet, nice and everything the other boy wasn’t. But he knew I was kind of broken over the other thing so he backed off.
I refused to believe that it wasn’t possible and tried to see him again and he offered many excuses, besides whenever we were together things would happen, and i know that it wasn’t pleasant for him. So I told him how I felt but I knew since he is also emotionally not available and all these other girls like him that he wasn’t ready, and like he basically told me ok, fine…but i thoght maybe iI scared him off, maybe I jumped the gun… so i backed off some more, but still thought maybe things might be possible…but whenever I would get too close he would back away. And then u know, there were other girls…but I didn’t want to not talk to him, i felt like he needed a friend, so i stayed. None of these situations worked out because he couldn’t commit, he never had time , etc.
And then he told me we were gtting too close, but I honestly thought that we were friends and didn’t see it that way- or didn’t want to admit it… then we stopped talking for a long time. After two months he was super attentive, and super nice again and i fell for him all over again. but it was just one thing after another, i couldn’t muster the strength to tell him how i felt… and then i found out one of my friends were going to visit him and liked him so I had to tell him. I did, and naturally he told me we were friends, and nothing more.
In the meantime, he is getting to know this other girl, although I don’t know how serious it is. I am trying not to find out, but the suspense is killing me
Ironically guy number one has decided to move where I am , a whole continent away based purely on the fact that I mentioned I was going to live there and he wants to study… so he is coming and his wife might too and I am frankly amazed at his self absorption.
Guy number two hasn’t even bothered to tell me about the girl, even though he knows we all know each other and I am going to find out
I am here, miserable, and it’s all my own doing despite not wanting to fall into patterns here I am and I keep going things over and over in my head
A few months ago I met a guy at work. At first I wasn’t attracted to him; he seemed nice and everything, but nothing more. After a few weeks I noticed that he started talking to me a lot (only through chat, by the way), waited for me when we left work, flirted, asked for my number, mentioned we should hang out, etc. I began to like him a lot. Well, guess what? After the first kiss (which wasn’t a date), he completely changed. At first I started blaming myself, thinking that maybe he wanted to take things slow and that I had done something wrong. Then I realized there were red flags all the way. He never called me in the evening or weekends (just a few text messages), never invited me to go out on the weekends, stopped chatting with me. Am I hurt? Yes, but I can see now the “relationship” was all in my head. Now he sometimes talks, other times he doesn’t (by the way, I don’t initiate the conversation when this happens). What happened here? Is it a case of “relationship in my head” or Mr. Unavailable? I always though that if he had a real interest in me he would have made plans to go out in the weekend, called me at night, etc., not talk one day and the other not.
I’ve been a faithful reader for over a year now, coming on board after trying to figure out why my first relationship after my separation (now divorce) was so confusing. He was classic EUM. Unfortunately, I think I am too and it is really becoming a problem. Now I’m trying to let go of a FWB/booty call relationship that I attempted to make more than it ever was. I am 41 and thought I was more mature than this, but clearly I still have alot to learn.
A man I work with (separated like me, 39 yrs old, now divorced as well) and I embarked on a consensual casual FWB arrangement in 08. It was kind of an unspoken thing, and not very frequent. Typically the result of being liquored up at the same party. We’d flirt at work, but it was understood that we would not date, and it would be secret. I really honestly had no interest in dating him. I work in a construction office, and already get enough teasing about my personal life, I did not want anyone to be able to tease me about this co-worker.
I’ve had 2 relationships since starting the FWB, one (3 months total) of which was with an EUM and in the second (8 months), I was the EUW (I settled for him because he seemed like a decent guy, but I was never really attracted and he had so many issues that I ignored just for the sake of “having a boyfriend”). But I treated him poorly and strung him along. Very ashamed of doing to someone what I had had done to me.
Anyway, in-between the relationships, I had my FWB. No cheating, he was just there when I was single again. We’d end up at a party or bar together, and we’d have a fun night. And that was about it. Sure he’d try to pursue me when I when I was in the relationships, but I’d ignore him and just laugh about it. Figured he was just playing, and he didn’t have my heart, so I didn’t care.
But then it changed. He was right there when I broke up with my 2nd b/f. The day of. Thought I had it all under control b/c he was just my “go-to guy”. But then we actually started arranging times to see eachother more frequently. We both have kids but soon we’d be getting together each week we didn’t have them. It got too frequent and I got FEELINGS. I tried to break it off. Told him I had feelings, knew that wasn’t part of the deal. He left me alone for awhile, but not long enough. He would pursue, heavy flirting at work, LOTS of text messaging. Blowing hot. But no dating because, of course, we were “secret”. And I made the mistake of falling in love with my FWB. And imagining that he felt the same, and making up a relationship where there was none. We barely dated–only hung out with friends together, or after work, or late night housecalls. But I managed to create a relationship out of it. A couple weeks ago I really pressed him for more. Told him I felt strongly toward him, told him it would bother me if he dated others. He had a half dozen excuses as to why he wasn’t ready to date, but I found him on Match.com, still active this week. And I haven’t had a text from him in 2 weeks. Ouch.
So, now I’m attempting the no contact rule with someone I have to see every day, multiple times a day, at work. It hurts, and I can only blame myself because I entered into the “contract” willingly. Big learning? Never get involved with someone you work with because IF emotions ever come into play, someone will get hurt. And I do believe FWB is very hard to keep up if there is any frequency in interactions.
I thank God for Baggage Reclaim because I have spent every night here trying to figure out how to change my behaviour and I think it’s helping. Thank you NML.
I think you are a very passionate woman and when I read your post, what stood out for me was the interest deep within in wanting love and to love in return even though you fear you are an EUM.
Forgive me if you think I am lame, but think about a couple o’ things. Firstly, it is extremely difficult for women to not bond with men whom they are sexual with. As difficult and lame as this sounds, hold off on sex with everybody and see who sticks. Stand back and get a grip on the men, who they are, what they want, and how sincere they are. I am living without sex for several months now, I miss it but I feel fine, believe me you can do it.
Secondly try this meditation with yourself, go inside to your first layer of thoughts and feelings and “peel the onion”, go in and in until you reach your beautiful, peaceful heart and see the purity that rests there.
I don’t think you made any mistakes, I think “all good experiences and lessons for learning”. No villages burned nor is anyone in jail. Good for you for trying. Be love (not sexual at first) and love will come to you.
Judy
Thank you for the kind words. I agree, it is extremely difficult not to become attached when sex is involved. I really thought I could do that with this “friend”, but wow, it didn’t take long to get attached once the intimacy became more frequent. And it took me 4 months to realize that he was behaving exactly like my first emotionally charged (and devastating) EUM relationship. It was a real kick in the ass, I’ll tell you. I ignored the reliance on text messaging because we saw eachother everyday at work and talked. I ignored the reluctance to actually “go out” as part of the “secret relationship”. I ignored the reluctance to give anything “emotionally” as a by-product of a messy divorce, etc… But it finally struck me, when I saw him actually online on Match (I don’t have an active profile on Match, but I can still see other people’s profiles), that…OMG…he wants to date…but not me.
So now I’ve reluctantly decided to begin dating a man who’s been courting me for the past 3 months (I’ve kept him at arms length and not dated him or done anything beyond talk as friends until this week because I was waiting to see what was going on with my FWB). I am wary, because I don’t want to rebound, but I also don’t want to shut someone out who has been doing what a gentleman is supposed to do. Consistency, calling versus texting, wanting to take me out, etc…. I am going to hold off on sex this time around and try to do this right. I’m not feeling the fireworks though, which is where I’m concerned about my own EUW issues (worried I only feel the fireworks for the unattainable morons). I falter between feeling that I should take some time to be alone, and not wanting to lose what could potentially be a good thing.
hello.
just reading through all the comments here.
Natalie!
what a brilliant work of art: this post!
Cherry!
i won’t even go into my story. same. same. same. even the part about him wanting me to give him feedback and challenge him. wow.
Here are some steps I have taken that have gotten me out of my hole:
1. I said “thank you” to the pain. If there was no pain, we’d keep our hands on the hot stoves, and in the fires and on the hot pavements, and we’d be burned more than if we had pain.
2. I gave myself permission to stay on my course of destruction. For however long it took, knowing I could opt out at any moment.
3. I analyzed the things that were good about the guy. The things that kept me mesmerized. I looked for those qualities in myself.
4. I began to look at the five major feelings (and who cares exactly what they are? people differ in their assessment…), and every day I looked at each of these feelings and what was coming up in association with them, and then I gave those associations to God:
anger
fear
sadness
humiliation
happiness
5. My guy broke up with me and left no option for more contact, but he was one who kept breaking his own rules and contacting me. So when I found out he was going on a trip alone, to a beautiful beach destination, I wrote him an email: “Have fun on your trip. I WON’T BE IN TOUCH. But remember that I love you. And I will pray for you.” And when I hit Send, it felt so good! It felt great. And I thought to myself, “That is my last email to him. Ever.” And I went No Contact before I ever saw Natalie online. And my self esteem began to return.
6. I got in touch with friends, even though I didn’t want to. I went out with them. (And it was fun.)
7. I began to take positive actions to better my life. I sold my house. I moved. I studied for a new career. I passed tests. I started LIVING. For ME.
8. I read every book I could on dating and waited and dreamed of the day that I could get “out there” again.
9. And now I am out there again. It’s good. The pain has lifted.
THE PAIN HAS LIFTED!
I AM NO LONGER IN PAIN.
How wonderful. I earned it. And I also view it as a gift.
May you have that experience too, Cherry. And all of you on here!
Love,
“Shay”
hello.
just reading through all the comments here.
Natalie!
what a brilliant work of art: this post!
Cherry!
i won’t even go into my story. same. same. same. even the part about him wanting me to give him feedback and challenge him. wow.
Here are some steps I have taken that have gotten me out of pain:
1. I said “thank you” to the pain.
2a. I gave myself permission to stay on my course of destruction. For however long it took, knowing I could opt out at any moment.
2b. I kept listening and reading.
3. I analyzed the things that were good about the guy. The things that kept me mesmerized. And I looked for those qualities in myself. And found them.
4. I began to consider the five major feelings (and who cares exactly what they are? people differ in their assessments…), and every day I looked at each of these feelings and what was coming up in association to them, and then I gave those associations to God:
anger
fear
sadness
humiliation
happiness
5. My guy broke up with me and left no option for more contact, but then he kept breaking his own rule and contacting me. So when I found out he was going on a trip alone, to a beautiful beach destination, I wrote him an email: “Have fun on your trip. I WON’T BE IN TOUCH. But remember that I love you. And I will pray for you.” And when I hit Send, it felt so good! It felt great. And I thought to myself, “That is my last email to him. Ever.” And I went No Contact instinctively, without ever reading about it. And my self esteem began to return.
6. I got in touch with friends, even though I didn’t want to. I went out with them. (And it was fun.)
7. I began to take positive actions to better my life. I sold my house. I moved. I studied for a new career. I passed tests. I started LIVING. For ME. This was key for me. Every action gave me a surge of energy and positive regard for myself. They weren’t actions like getting a massage or buying a new dress. They were actions that propelled me forward.
8. I read every book I could on dating and waited and dreamed of the day that I could get “out there” again.
9. And now I am out there again. It’s good. It’s fun. It’s upbeat.
I’m not healed entirely, but the pain has lifted. And I get stuck wanting more from a guy than he wants to give… still. But I’ve come a long way. And I’m very thankful.
Cherry, just do one thing at a time and enjoy your process! You say you’re in so much pain that you don’t know what to do. Cherish these moments of intense feelings, because you feel ALIVE. And work forward. And forgive yourself. And love yourself!
With love,
“Shay”
oops, sorry! I thought I was editing…
Thanks again for your pragmatic no frills advice…you gave me a concrete example about how emotionally unavailable i still am, while thinking it was all about the insignificant other…very interesting!!
Thank you for the honesty in your post. You are probably the first to hit the nail on the head in my situation and ask the exact questions I had in my head. Its startling to discover that many females experience this as well. I reckon this happens far more often than anyone cares to reveal.
After reading this, I realise this dreadful pattern I had been applying to my life which began pretty much after my worst breakup. I am terrified of dating again and this was a perfect excuse to always decline being set up as I had a “guy on my mind”. Plus, it gave me short term happiness to believe i was loved. Although in reality he probably never reciprocated and there was no rship.
I’ve grown tired of waiting and wallowing in self-inflicted misery for a rship that doesn’t exist. I agree – time to wake up, connect to the real world and live my life in the real world.
I think we all need to “wake up” to our fabulous, powerful, creative, rich selves. I don’t want to sound like a wacky, lets hate men pro-feminist. Let’s face it – we can’t go back to change the morals, alot of us has had sex on the first date then fell in love and obsessed. i have done this so often and its ok, i am here now.
I am over it all, to me even with all of my failings (my pile of dead sheep – quite high, I am 50 and single) – the best revenge is to live well, succeed, look superb, create and make money doing what i love. That great love will come, I will not sweat it and I am not going to worry anymore. I am the most important.
in all of us is the supreme one, the great and the good and as women, lets let go of all this excess obsession, confusion. it doesn’t matter what happened if the guy is gone, rejoice! you have your superb self to be with and work on.
best of luck all and take the best of care!!!!
I feel like i’m among friends here having read the posts I have been having an in my head relationshi with a guy who used me to massage his ego so he could leave his ex gf only to get back with her and then when he finally did leave her again he chose someone else to go out with at that point was when i had had it with him but i was still emotionally tied to him. The fact that he later became a manager of the place i liked hanging out just made it unbearable i was yo yoing fromi’m not going there anymore’ to ‘he can’t stop me going to the place i enjoy’ only to go there be ignored and left feeling like invisible shit.
I then met someone else and i think i did it to make the other one jealous and it worked he started talking to me again but by then i didn’t trust him anymore so when he told me to call him I couldn’t becuase he had a habit of being dr jekyll and mr hyde so i textedhim instead saying sorry but i couldn’t call him thats when he started avoiding me again hahaha and he made a comment to someone in a joking way ‘she doesn’t trust me’ with the intention for me to hear …I didn’t disagree I actually was thinking ‘well can you blame me?
It’s been just over a year and i went back to the place i used to be a regular at and what can i say I had an amazing time the first time i went and I stayed clear of him the second time the band wasn’t doing it for me and i got bored so i left (in the past i would have stayed even if i was bored just to be around him and hoped that he would have looked my way and smiled, just a little acknowledgement would have made my night…cringe)
So grateful for a place like this
Thanks! This is the kind of kick in the butt I needed. Day 13 for me and struggling because I want closure. My situation was not totally unrequited but the other party never really committed either. Just strung me along and played games for the last year.
I discovered this website yesterday and haven’t been able to stop thinking about it. In the past 24 hours, this site and all the strong women on here have given me the strength to stand up for myself and to the EUM (I actually haven’t told him, and don’t plan to.. I’ve just vanished from him) . I was amazed at some of the comments, because I felt that I could have written every single one of them. Once I realized that my ex is an EUM, it seemed the fog had lifted and i am now able to see the light in all of this. I’m not a weak woman, I’m physically and mentally strong, that’s why I just couldn’t understand why I was having such a difficult time with this relationship. Now I know, it wasn’t me…. it wasn’t me at all, it was him and his manipulation of my life, my time, my love, and my energy. I take it all back, it’s all mine again.
For 4 years now, I have felt like I was in the wrong, that I needed to change so I could be with him. Not any more! I’m not wasting my energy or my time on someone who doesn’t treat me with love and compassion. I’m sorry that he cannot love me the way I want to be loved, but that’s his problem and not mine. I do love him very much but I honestly cannot stay with him and this feeling of being so alone is worse than actually being alone. It’s worse because he chose to not love me back instead he took from me the love. He was beyond mean to me, so mean that I would just sit there stunned. He’s hit me, he’s threatened to kill me, he’s been verbally abusive and I absorbed it all, I loved him unconditionally. But you know what, no more. He had his chance to make it right, to say he was sorry, he never did! NEVER! I’m not mad at him, I’m not mad at me. I smile now because I’m free, I feel like my heart no longer has scars on it, i feel like my heart now is beating stronger than ever.
Now I’m open for someone to come into my life that is worthy of my love. I’m no longer closed off and I know when that someone finds me, it’s going to be a beautiful thing. I’m an amazing woman and I deserve an amazing man!
I just wanted to thank all the women here for what they have written. I wish more women would rely on the strength of other women for all things, instead of turning against each other.
thank you all….. I hope my post will also give you the strength to move on. You are beautiful, you are doing your best for you… otherwise you wouldn’t be on here reading this, you would be curled up in a little ball after being beaten down by a man that is disqusting and not worthy of your devotion. It’s time you take back your life and give love to someone who will love you back.
Peace to all you warrior women.
I was infatuated with someone at work for the past 7 years while I had a caring, loving bf. The result was not pretty – I felt constantly rejected by the one I want and sought solace in the man I felt I did not want or desire. Recently I’m again infatuated with a guy whom I felt a strong chemistry with and started stalking him on FB. Being smarter and wiser, I know the cost of doing this to myself, so I deactivated my account. On the plus side, all these men who I am infatuated with inspired me to be a better person because I see their good qualities, which are then magnified by my imagination. However, the psychological toll of imagining a “non-existent” relationship is certainly not worth it!
Coming across this site was my epiphany.Today is my 6th day of NC AND i FEEL GREAT..i’m confident that if I have made it this far , I will make it all the way ..this blog has made it so much easier for me cos now I see that I’m not alone on this painful journey.It’s funny bcos my Assclown told me from the on set that he had never been in love… in the 53 years of his existence..now shouldnt that have been my red flag?..I still forged ahead regardless .In my naivete I was hoping I’d be that girl ..the one he’d been waiting for in the entirety of his five decades on planet earth..so I set myself up for a major heartbreak…. yes it hurts, plus I feel like a complete idiot for doing all the calling , all the chasing , all the texting etc.It wasnt exactly so at the begining ..he chased me down but as soon as he conquered ..he retracted.In retospect, I’m compelled to think that he gets his thrill from having women fall for him and better still having them grovel and beg for his love and attention.Said the right things..did the right things..an incredible lover…. but his heart was far removed from every gesture he ever made..scary isnt it?.Being the incurable romantic that Iam, I always equated passionate lovemaking to love..LOL..I have since discovered that people are wired very differently..silly me! So Iam forging on like a good soldier ….taking baby steps until I purge myself of this poisin..hopefully It shouldnt be too long..but how it hurts!!!!
HAC, your comments could be describing the situation I am in…or was in – I am a little further along the NC road…There are many of these things that my ex said (or wrote) in ending things, which all seem fairly reasonable, but among them were comments about how I was chasing him and sucking up to him and how unappealing that was (and, for good measure, he also said that I was merely a physical attraction for him). I can see now, for him, he was getting all this love and tenderness for very little in return, which made it feel despicable. I wasn’t sucking up – I know what that is – but I was giving an adult form of love and encouragement that was not merited or reciprocated so it came across that way.
Plus, I hadn’t scaled back properly to the early day stuff where, for various reasons, it is important for the man to feel in control/do the chasing.
Equally, as you suggested with you ex, he had already told me how he hates (his words) how women always suck up to him and let him get whatever he wants (RED FLAG). I have the icky role of being one on that list now! These people!
Glad you’re feeling good and being gentle with yourself. I am having mostly good, even euphoric days, then I get overwhelmed by the shock, hurt and indignity of it all… I am, at the moment, trying to reframe it in my mind as an incredibly painful, but hugely valuable and timely lesson and test of my own emotional maturity, self-love and self-composure. I can feel this vague sense of gratitude for the experience, just about…
Elle yes.. there will be bad days..days when you feel vulnerable and you are tempted to pick up that phone and call or days when you are filled with self loathe and even days when you feel so much animosity on the inside ..but the great thing is we are headed in the right direction, we’ve seen these people for what they truly are.I am in my beginning stages , where am still grappling with the stark reality of my situation so I havent gotten to the “missing terribly” syndrome but I know it will come, so am gearing up, cos the truth is , there will be days when we ll miss them but then “how can you miss something or some one that was never truly yours?”
…Thanks, HAC. This is my first AC experience, at a fairly ripe old age of 33, so every new phase of it is off-putting to say the least! But I have been thinking about that issue of being rejected by someone who never truly accepted you. It’s weird to me how those who truly love and accept us CAN (in theory) reject us but they just don’t, and those that don’t accept us CAN’T (in theory) reject us (only the possibility of accepting us), but we take it so terribly, as if they had gotten to know and love us, and then bailed! It’s like that issue you mentioned of missing someone who was never truly present. My ex-AC said that directly, that he wasn’t with me. I had, of course, tried to address this remoteness in the relationship and he blamed me for starting trouble! Anyway, on with the right path…
There’s a lot of truth to this article but, seriously, why so harsh? I think we’re harsh enough on ourselves as is.
I’ve been going through a tough time. I’m in a loving relationship with my bf of many years and became infatuated with a coworker, After over a year of working together, he started giving me a huge smile when he came in and all of a sudden I was hooked. Luckily, I found out he was moving to another country for a new job. However I was struggling with my feelings for him at the office, but never let it on that I was interested in him. In fact I did the opposite: I even shook his hand goodbye after everyone else hugged him. So basically, I spent the whole time trying to hide my feelings for him because I was in denial hoping that they’d go away when he left. He finally left but the feelings didn’t stop.
I know that he’s been back to visit his family and I’m always hoping that he’ll contact me but he hasn’t. The only email I’ve gotten from him since he left was an update email sent to both me, my coworker and my boss with some pictures. Although I could have easily replied, I had the good sense to delete it and try to forget about it.
All sense and reason seem to be out of my head. I feel as though I’m doing some of the right things, 1) didn’t try to add him to facebook, 2) didn’t send him any emails. But then there’s always a nagging feeling that I haven’t done enough to let him know I’m interested and of course a whole lot of guilt for wanting him to be interested. Overall, it’s been a very confusing time for me. I’m used to having a sense of control over my life, and I’ve been doing the ‘right’ things at every turn but my mind is still in fantasy land. Any advice?
I remember when I met him 7 years ago he told me he can’t take me serious because I have 2 kids but I said to myself I can change his way of thinking so I settle just to be his sex partner the years went by still no dinner no movies no nothing but he always called me when he needed sex anything and I was always there bought him the most expensive things ever it would be days he get mad and ignore me for weeks I would cry call him text him beg him to please stop being mad then he would call then back to being mad back and fourth now here I am he has been ignoring me for 2 months I text I call no answer I even tried no contact for 3 weeks then I started calling texting still no answer I talk to god go to church I still can’t get over him I just don’t know what else to do I think he cares about me but I just don’t know I see a lot of you on this post did it and are feeling great why cant I get the great feeling why can’t I move on I miss him like crazy but he don’t care,..
Confused
There is nothing to be confused about. You keep doing the same thing and get the same results. You read this blog, go to Church talk to God but because you keep doing the same thing you get the same results. Then you think those things aren’t working. They can only work if YOU work. Stop texting him. He has gone. No, he doesn’t care. Yes, you’re annoying him.