I’m a huge advocate for using the No Contact Rule on men (and women) that just seem to have an allergy to breaking up and making a clean break. Even when you don’t have to get medieval on the person and cut contact, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it a million times again: this whole staying in touch and trying to be friends after you’ve broken up is bullshit. Just ask the millions of women out there that are secretly hoping for their ex to suddenly see them for the great people they are so they can have their fairy-tale ending. In reality, they’re being used for a shag and/or an ego stroke.
But…Fallback Girls and assclown lovers are obsessed with the big question: Will he try to get in contact with me?
Now, like a lot of things in shady relationships, obsessing over the “What ifs” of this question is a reflection of Women Who Talk and Think Too Much syndrome and not seeing the wood for the trees.
What we consider is what we believe a man getting back in touch means: He wants me/He wants to get back together/He misses me/He regrets his actions.
To add insult to injury, Mr Unavailables and assclowns are lazy. They may not even call; they might skip straight to text, instant messenger or email! If you fall into the trap of believing that his actions mean way more than they actually do, you’re so excited about him getting in touch and back into betting on potential mode, that you fail to see his actions for what they are.
It depends on the circumstances. It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, it may not even be this year or even twenty years. If he’s of the Mr Unavailable and assclown variety and hasn’t seen the error of his ways, his overblown ego, total disconnect and often selfish, using ways, means that he’s likely to make contact at some point.
Whether or not he gets in touch depends a great deal on you. You are in the driving seat of this way more than you realise.
Had the brass balls to see him for what he is and tell him to jog on. This means he’s likely to resist or be hesitant about making a comeback. If he does try, it’s probably for an ego stroke or a shag. Or to try to get back in control… and then disappear.
Held on to his feet begging him to stay. He’ll probably get in touch for a shag and an ego stroke. However, if it was intense, he’ll probably make you wait a while as he may be nervous about your emotions.
Keep making contact with him. Or, you make a big point of reiterating how you don’t want to lose him and how you want to stay in touch. He’ll probably be in touch. Highly likely to be for a shag and/or ego stroke. However, depending on how shady or egotistical he is, he might not feel the need to reach out, yet.
Hang about on the fringes, sending smoke signals that you’re ready and waiting. He will make contact as and when he needs you. You will possibly become part of a narcissistic harem.
Tell him you don’t give a shit about him. If he’s from the egotistical stable, he’s likely to want to prove you wrong. And some will bide their time. Now, odds are, if you’re wondering if he’ll get in touch, then you give way more of a shit than you’re letting on!
Appear to have moved on or seem as if you might be getting over him. He’ll probably get back in touch. It’s as if these guys have a homing device that senses when we’re moving on! Or, another explanation is that Professor Life throws you a pop test in the form of him reappearing. Your task is to say no and keep moving on.
Avoided him for longer than any previous breakup. He’ll probably get in touch because he doesn’t like to be out of control of you being emotionally invested in him. On some level, he has an idea of when he thinks he can reach out. He might wait for a while after the longest period has been exceeded. And then ego will get the better of him. So, if the longest you’ve gone in a year, curiosity is likely to get the better of him by, for example,rel 18 months.
Worked his way through his narcissistic harem of women and hit a blank wall. He’ll probably chance his arm with you.
Dumped by the one he left you for, or he finds himself being rejected by someone else. He’ll probably try it on with good ‘ole familiar you.
Caught a clarity glimpse in the mirror and realises that he hasn’t still got “the magic”. He’ll probably get in touch and try to get back together so that he can feel like himself again.
In a nutshell: If you give any hint whatsoever that you are still interested in him (and for many of you, that will come down to giving him the time of day), he will get in touch. And it will probably be when he needs something. And, no, he won’t admit that.
But…the fact that it could be any time between now and infinity is all the more reason why you shouldn’t be sitting at home pining away for him! Don’t wait. It may not ever happen.
Yes many of them do get in touch, but many don’t! Why? Because they have no need for you and they’re getting a shag and an ego stroke elsewhere.
If they’ve moved on, messing up your life isn’t high on their priorities right now. It’s only the most egotistical, pathetic, lying, cheats that like to keep you on ice after they’ve moved on with someone else. Next thing you know, you’re in the relegation zone and demoted from girlfriend to ex, to the Other Woman. Don’t take a demotion, ever!
“But, why do they get in touch with us then?” some of you might wonder.
To test to see if the proverbial door is still open. That may mean your legs or your emotions, or a combination of the two.
Eventually, they get bored. It will be very annoying and if you’re not quite over him, a test of your willpower. But they do get the hint eventually, especially if you’ve actually moved on.
Men that don’t want to let you go but also don’t want to give you what you want are flip-flappers.
They don’t know their arses from their elbows so they can’t commit to being with you, and they can’t commit to not being with you. They’re not sure if they like you, but they’re not sure if they don’t like you. And whatever energy they’ve mustered up to feel something for you, they don’t know why they feel it.
The worst kinds of men, like Mr Unavailables and assclowns, are ego and… often penis driven. The dick knows not why it wants it, just that it wants to get laid in some familiar territory… and then hotfoot it back out of your life the moment that they think you want, need, or expect something from them!
They like knowing that there is at least one woman out there that is foolish enough to keep taking them back even though they bring less and less to the table each time. And they don’t even muster up the energy to attempt to be sincere anymore!
Remember, if we as women are afraid to be on our own, we have to entertain the very real possibility that there are men out there that also don’t like to be alone.
What you need to be asking yourself when you’re wondering whether he’ll call and trying to calculate when is:
Then ask yourself why you need to concern yourself about whether a man who doesn’t want you and who didn’t treat you right is going to call?
Remember that from the moment that someone breaks up with you, a major signal needs to be going to your brain that you and this person are not on the same page. Rather than value you and do everything in their power to make the relationship work, they would rather opt out.
They are out. If you’re still ‘in’, something’s wrong.
You cannot spend your time trying to out-think these guys and pre-empt their moves. For a start, obsessing and thinking about what they may or may not do are signs that you are not moving on. You’re still heavily emotionally invested, and in essence, conducting your relationship with him in your imagination.
You know that you are grieving, healing, and moving on when you’re not throwing away your time priming yourself for a possible contact that may or may not happen. Talk about setting yourself up for disappointment! Be so busy getting on with your life that you can’t be on tenterhooks for this guy!
This is not the movies or a fairy tale! I hate to be a parade killer, but having two star-crossed lovers that have an obstacle crop up at just the right moment to push them apart, for it to be resolved in 90 minutes just isn’t real life.
And a man does not have to say ‘I DON’T WANT YOU’ to say ‘I DON’T WANT YOU!’
We make too many excuses for men. We let them off the hook, and we’re hearing, but we’re not listening. One way or another, the guy is showing or telling you which way the land really lies, but you just don’t want to see or hear it.
The key to all of this is what happens after he gets back in contact.
Or…
You know what the contact meant by what happened afterwards. It’s not the contact, it’s what he does with it and what happens afterwards that counts. I suspect if you’re a Baggage Reclaim reader, it didn’t work out too well…
So, instead of asking, “Will he try to get in touch with me?” Ask yourself “Is the door going to be open for me to receive his contact?”
Your thoughts?
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OMG! Thank you so much for posting this. My ex wanted to remain friends after the break up. I agreed to it at first, but later found it very difficult and painful, so I wrote him a farewell email to which he did not respond. I kept obsessing with the reasons as to why he never responded, but I’m no longer waiting because my life has bigger and better priorities. This post has come at a good time. You’ve helped me reestablish his unavailability; therefore, I’m going to leave him where he belongs, in the past. Thanks again.
I’m no longer on speaking terms with the man I mentioned in another comment. He went through a few periods where he seemed to be warming up to me romantically – and I panicked, wondering if he really meant it, and should I think about being more than friends, after all?
He suddenly started talking about wanting to travel – no strings attached. When I started to ask him questions, he told me that I seemed very negative, and indicated that he could just disappear if he felt like it… so I pointed out that he was bringing negativity with the games he was playing, and told him where to go.
Unfortunately, over the past couple of days, I’ve found myself wondering if he’ll get in touch, only to remind myself of why we aren’t speaking in the first place. Any man who seriously wanted me in his life, wouldn’t indicate that he could just disappear, and he wouldn’t say a word about “no strings” and being free.
Oh, and last year? he got in touch with me, after almost four months of not even acknowledging my existence, when other men were flirting with me (and I was enjoying it). He’d contacted me, letting me know that he was there for me to talk to if I needed a friend (I was going through a hard time).
I pray to doG he doesn’t try to contact me. It is soo much easier to let it go when he isn’t trying to find out “how I am doing”. I am on day 13 of my no contact mission which is harder during the day because that is when we talked most. 2 and a half years straight of texting and emailing is a hard habit to break regardless who is on the receiving end of them.
Hi everyone and Happy New Year. Just wanted to say that this post could not have come at a better time. And yes, these creeps do reappear right when we are beginning to get on with our lived. My ex contacted me over the Christmas Holiday to “let me know” that if I wanted to hook up with the understanding that sex is all it would be, then he would be interested in seeing me.” I was like “What, are you freakin’ kidding me?!?!” I mean I had to admit he had the b*lls to come right out and just ask for sex – no hiding behind wanting to try to work things out. I never answered his text, and I since then, I have been receiving texts regularly asking if I want to “hang out.” I haven’t responded to a single one – it makes me so freakin’ mad that he actually thinks I might be up for this sort of arrangement. A$$HOLE!!
Katie,
Asshole is an understatement!!!!!
I’ve been reading this site for the past 3 months and finally I was able to build up the confidence to break it off with my assclown on 1/1/09. A new year deserves a new beginning and I know I deserve better! Although I have to admit, I can’t help but wonder if the assclown ex is missing me, maybe finally realizing he lost a good thing, and is contemplating to win my heart back? I know I’m pathetic to even be wondering and wasting my good brain cell on the assclown ex. This post absolutely kicked me in the butt and snapped me back to reality. Who cares what the assclown is thinking and luck be with me that he does not contact me. Thank you to this amazing site and all the amazing reader responeses; I cannot thank you all enough for helping me realize the value in myself and help me move forward with my life with optimism. I am still sad about the break up but I do believe every hurt and sadness comes with a lesson. Thank you again!
I am a HUGE fan of this site. It has helped me to see my own short comings for what they are.
I am male, 20 and I just want to let you know that there are men who do see the error of their ways and genuinely get a good feeling from spending their lives fulfilling that of the woman they love.
There is hope out there. Wishing you ladies all the best and I hope you do the same.
New Year….but same A$$hole, only he’s more arrogant this time around.
Katie- we feed the arrogant beast everytime we come back for more. Its like no contact is the kryptonite.
I have been doing the “No Contact” but that doesn’t even seem to work. I haven’t responded to one message but he still keeps sending them. He’s either clueless or a arrogant SOB. I’m sticking with the latter.
NML hit on the head with the concept of these clowns being “Lazy”. I now view texting and emails in a whole new light. Thanks for the time and energy you put into this post NML. I needed to read it your words are so right on.
I’m kind of at a loss because I broke down and replied to him on Christmas day after 3 weeks of him texting and NC (on my part). I was actually surprised but he texted just yesterday and I’ve been on a mind-bend ever since! I honestly thought he’d be done once he got a response from me. I’m back to NC but I’ve got to say….I still like the guy very much and I panic when I see it’s his number. I want to move on but don’t have the b*** to tell him to buzz off.
Thanks for the post because it seems to be the only dose of reality I have at this point. I notice that if I get away from the blog for any length of time, I tend to fall back into the old thinking patterns and yearn to make things right with this guy….
Katie, you missed part of the “no contact” – if he is texting or calling, you will need to block his messages so they never arrive – either have his number blocked, or get a new number and *don’t* share it with him. As you are finding out – if you see that he sent an email or text, even if you don’t read it – you are still in contact. His stunts are still upsetting you, distracting you from grieving, healing, and getting on with living. This is *not* “No Contact”. You need to protect yourself better. It isn’t fair, but right now you need the protection to heal.
As for his first request for “friends with benefits” booty calls, No contact/no reply works best. But I still feel a polite, “Why, thank you for the offer, but you will have to work that out by yourself. And clean up after yourself this time,” would feel great. But that just starts more conversations, prolongs the issues, and only feels good if he never hears it. Anything more than, “No.” sends the wrong message. No explanations will help.
Have you tried contacting your phone carrier, to complain about his harassing you? Or your local police?
Do not, please, reward him with a reply, with attention, with time spent with you (even for an argument) – these are all rewards, they feed the troll. If there was any word that he would learn from, he would have learned it long ago. Now any thing you say will waste your time, and the one most likely to be hurt is you.
PoshPal you are not Pathetic!!! GREAT choice in deciding to let him go. I know its not easy… I broke up with mine on 12/1/08… MY BIRTHDAY!! What better gift to give myself I thought (hee hee)But believe me– we all go through the same things, the same thoughts, the same questions… but if you read enough of the posts– you soon realize that you are not alone…and that perhaps you were not at all crazy like you thought either. These types of relationshiops are really hard on our self esteem…. Im still sad too, I still miss him as well.. I still contemplate wanting him back… I still wonder if he has changed and in the midst of all of this I ask myself the same question… WHY ON EARTH would I want someone who barely gave me his time, always had an excuse, lied, was selfish etc.. etc…. And then I remind myself of all the things that he did and didnt do and say to myself that the person that is in my head—- is only in my head… you have to open your eyes and be willing to see what the reality of the relationship and the situation was. It’s like any BAD HABIT… you have to slowly train and re-program your mind to think differently in order to change the habit…. little by little and with time… it gets easier. I work with my EUM and it sucks because I have to see him every day!!! I stay as far away as possible and minimize all contact so that I can continue with my healing. We have to be determined to want to heal…. we have to want our sanity and loving ourselves has to become more important than the one little crumb we would get if they did call us or come looking for us. Just like NML says… it would only be for an ego boost anyway. How sad and ANGRY that makes me…. but thats exactly what keeps me from giving him the time of day!!!! Anywhooo…. keep up the NC and know that we are all here to support eachother and you are not alone! KATIE: I would go with SOB!!!! Dont FALLBACK though!!! Keep moving Forward!!!
ukformerassclon: thanks for the support (especially coming from a male) its good to know there are good men out there…. and that we don’t have to completely lose hope… just make better choices and learn to always LOVE OURSELVES first! Thank you!!! 🙂
Oh…and like always… Nice post Brad!!! Love the sarcasm that is thrown in along with the GREAT advice!!! 😉
He can contact me all he wants – the point is that I AM NOT RESPONDING AT ALL. Why the hell should I change my phone number for one creep. Eventually he should be able to get it through his thick head that I’m done.
Brad, sorry but I disagree with the part that if he contact me but I don’t respond that means I’m still in contact. What??? It’s called moving on Brad…
Sometimes we have to be hit in the head more then once to get the message but my new motto for 2009 is “pay attention to a man’s actions, not what he says”. If someone is saying they love you but you need a private detective to locate their sorry azz, then they don’t love you. I know I deluded myself for a long time after my xEUM cheated on me, then wanted to keep us both. I cried so many tears over him, it’s ridiculous. I look back on it now and wonder what I could have been thinking. He’s still playing hide and seek once in awhile but after essentially four months of NC with two lapses, I’m finally getting over him. No more tears.
I’m trying to love and take care of myself. I want this year to be a special year. No more drama. I’m not freaking out because I don’t have a man. It would be nice to find that special someone but it’s only going to happen when I relax and start to enjoy my life. Then I will attract nice people into my circle.
Exercise is a wonderful way to relieve stress and start to build self esteem again. I want to be me, free from the stress and drama of that failed relationship. Once you give up on it and move on you start to feel so much better. I won’t waste another second of my life pining for someone that doesn’t want me.
katie
It is just easier mentally to never hear from them again. Hearing from that creep might put a kink in your day and make you think about them.
Then again if you change your number they could still bring their lazy asses to your front door, if they are in the neigborhood that is.. Then you have to duck and pretend you are not home even though your car is there. You’d have to move eventually
Then maybe they will show up in places they know you will be.
I have had several assclowns do this in the past. But it had been me doing the breaking up. They were still assclowns though.
“You know what the contact meant by what happened afterwards. It’s not the contact, it’s what he does with it and what happens afterwards that counts.”
NML, this is so true! I would start NC and after a few weeks he would pop up/contact me. The first 2 times this happended thought that he was serious about me/the relationship. Nope!
After he ‘checked in’ he just disappeared again. I still didn’t know where I stood in his life (I know now!) and I was still hurt. When I closed my ears and opened my eyes, I realised what a pathetic lying twat he is.
In healthy relationships, there is no need for NC. In healthy relationships, when you haven’t heard or seen the one you profess to love for weeks you don’t try to link up with a text message/email. Both try to make the relationship work. His occasional texts were supposed to ressure me that he loved me – no need to spend quality time together. My gosh, he was soooooo lazy! He put no effort into the relationship and when I called him out on it he said I was crazy, obsessed, possesive…. All because I wanted to know where I stood and pointed out his awful behaviour.
When he made contact it meant nothing. I over analysed his nothing and then was bitterly disappointed when nothing happen. So, I’m continuing to have nothing to do with him. Wish me strength on NC!
The way I see it is, when he tries to contact you after not doing so for long periods of time, he is just saying..”come here so I can slap you again.”
Ok– so are there ever situations in which the guy actually contacts you because HE does genuinly miss you? I guess I keep getting confused. My xEUM is not mean, nor is he rude or disrespectful etc…. He is just a LIAR!! And my self esteem took a toll because I hardly ever felt that he was making as much of an effort as I was. I have my weak moments in which I think to myself…. could he really care for me and love me but just can’t be with me right now? Or is this me just justifying things? I know it should be enough that he LIED to me, that I feel I was making more of an effort in the relationship than he was, that he was selfish and only thought about himself….. but here I go again with the back and forth. The What if’s…. the maybe this, maybe that…. I guess Im trying to find a way in my mind to make it into what I want…..because perhaps its too painful to deal with what really is…..and accepting that he is just using me and taking advantage for his OWN benefits…. and that hardly anything in the relationship benefited me or was recipricated. But Why oh Why then do I continue to still WANT him? That is the part that is so twisted and dysfunctional. I guess im having a weak moment …. these thoughts just pop into my head sometimes and those are the moments when i start thinking… hmmm… should I talk to him? Maybe he is sorry…. maybe he does care and love me? Uhm— or is it that I don’t know what love really is? I was the one who broke it off with him– so to an extent I feel good about that…. I know I had to do it inspite of the pain that was going to come with it. But I can’t help to feel the “pull” towards him… its almost like an involuntary feeling (I guess that is the ADDICTION Part) Sometimes he seems sooo sincere when he says things…. could it ever be true? If what counts is what they do AFTER the contact…. can we allow the contact and then “TEST” to see if things have changed?? Otherwise how would we know for sure? Do they ever deserve a second chance?? Ok…. as you can see– Im having a weak moment 🙁 Any input would be appreciated!!!
Oh by the way…. my xEUM lives with someone (if that in itself shouldnt be enough for me to keep away from him) but I guess I fell for it and two years passed before I ended it this past December. He continued to tell me that he loves me… that I have meant so much to him…. that this is all he is able to give me/offer me at the moment… that he knows I deserve a lot more but that until he can get his life in order ..he tries his best to show me that he loves me and cares for me. is that just an excuse??? Are there ever any exceptions?? I don’t talk to him so that I don’t have to hear or know about his life…….but these are just the thoughts that pop into my head at times….. the “MAYBE I was wrong….” The MAYBE it is true that things are difficult for him….and he just needs me to be supportive and understanding. Again… having a weak moment!!! Need to SNAP Out of it…. 🙁
Cynnie and Myalmostlover
YOU GUYS ROCK! You both sound sound so healthy. Life is way to short to mess with these clowns. For the first time in a very long time I am strong enough and am now educated enough to not even want a relationship in my life until someone finds me with a sincere heart. I have no patience for ass clowns.
Karen,
If he is living with someone he is UNAVAILABLE. He is cheating on you and he is cheating on her. Read NML’s book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl you will have not doubt after reading the book if he is an ass or not. If you are going to be happy he cannot have you AND another relationship you are way too special for that.
Karen! I just want to shake you!!! Of course he will miss you! What is not to miss about a beautiful person such as yourself. But, you don’t deserve to be left in question about someones love for you. I think in a healthy relationship, not that I know, if someone really truly cares about you…its not going to take days and days of us torturing ourselves with no contact for them to figure it out.
Karen,
SNAP OUT OF IT!!!
If he was sincere he would not be living with another woman, and be with you! Period!!!!! If they love us they are with us and are not making excuses as to why they can’t be in our lives. This is not love and not normal.
Look only at the actions, or should I say lack of!
One more thing.
If he wanted things to be different, they would be different. He is choosing not to incorporate you into his life.
You left for a reason. You were in an unhealthy relationship.
Karen, there is nothing to “Test”, please don’t contact this loser.
I am hoping that he misses you badly and is miserable with the live in, don’t ever take him back, he will always find somebody tocheat with.
How old is he?
Am I the crazy one… well yes, but how crazy?
I need some help and advise please.
I met this guy we became intant friends spending 4/7 (except nothing romantic just friends) I liked him, we had fun and then i started finding him work. I needed a flatmate, he needed a place to stay, he as breaking up with his (long distance) relationship. He moved in, he left his day job and began living on the work I was finding him, he helped me a lot with my work we really seemed to be liking each other. I liked him more. We went to a party, a girl there new I liked him and heavily played him in front of me (even kissing her boyfriend while looking at him), this was also party to showing me she could get him if she wanted too…it was disgusting. He fell for it, nothing happened between them but I saw it and a massive red flag came up. and nearly threw me across the room. I couldn’t function properly in the friendship after that. I read for weeks tying to figure out how to turn this around. How I could stop this linking him. I kept reading into his flirting with me but kept the image at the party of a reminder of what I was dealing with. He broke up with his girlfriend. I decided to tell him how I felt, I figured if the truth where out and I got his rejection (which of course I did) I could move on. all of a sudden the long distance girlriend was back on the scene, we have been distancing ourselves. I’m stronger. He has now asked if he can move into a bigger room in my house so he can women over. I said I was fine, but I know I’m not. I want to be healthy but feel I would be a masochist if I carry on with this, I’m scared every minute that he will walk in the door with a woman. We argued today he yelled at me…if I take the other room I do not want you to ever complain if i bring a girl back. I left the house without saying something. Later I said I was not interested in him (I’m not) but for some strange reason would still feel uncomfortable if he did bring someone back. I know it’s my ego and pride, but I also don’t want to be demoted as his buddie. he said he would not be comfortable so he is leaving.
Please help, am I a sick person.I admit when we met I liked him and wondered if something might come of it, It didn’t but i don’t know how to turn it back.
thanks
de
Rachel…..thanks for the props. I haven’t always been this strong. I was an absolute basket case for months, allowing him to use and abuse me, because I do think their behavior is a form of emotional abuse. It makes you crazy UNTIL you start thinking with your head, not your heart. Then it all becomes crystal clear.
So we’re all in this together and I wish only good things for everyone. We need to love ourselves as much as we loved those assclowns.
Yes Rachael – there are a lot of us reading these posts that are a little further out with NC that were totally down the rabbit hole when we first found Baggage Reclaim. You will get better, you will feel healthier, you will be able to make better choices and be a stronger person – – you’ve already made the decision that ‘something’ wasn’t working and you need to figure it out. Now you’re figuring it out. That doesn’t mean that nothing will hurt you or that you will wake up tomorrow feeling totally better about the situation, but you will use this situation to become stronger, smarter and more assertive – not to mention figuring out who you really are.
I also was asking myself when my EUM will make contact, mostly because of the holidays and because we had a brief, unexpected face to face at the store. This post came at just the right time for me, too — seriously, even if he does make contact, there is really nothing to talk about – he’s an assclown, I don’t want him f-ing up my life anymore, and even if he changed it wouldn’t make a difference for us – – it’s already too tainted.
After a while, you learn the subtle differences between
holding a hand, and chaining a soul,
And you learn that love doesn’t mean leaning,
company doesn’t mean security,
And you being to learn that kisses aren’t contracts and presents aren’t promises,
And you begin to accept your defeats with your head
up, and your eyes open, with the grace of an adult,
not the grief of a child,
And you learn to build all your roads on today
because tomorrow’s ground is too uncertain for plans.
After a while, you learn that sunshine burns if you get to much.
So plant your own garden and decorate your own soul,
instead of waiting for someone to being you flowers.
And you learn that you really can endure….
that you really are strong…
and you really do have worth..
And you learn, and you learn…
with every good-bye you learn…
Love and fighter, thank you!..
Reading your post I see I have my head up and eyes open, the learning oh the learning, when will i learn!
This is a timely post. My EUM just broke up with me this week. Basically because I asked him why he hadn’t contacted me in more than a week to at least wish me a Happy New Year. Then I questioned him about his MySpace with his more than 5000 friends, which are mostly women. He told me that he didn’t have to justify anything to me and basically said that I was a nut and said that it wasn’t working out anymore. All this after I had broken up with him in the summer. He chased me and told me how much he loved me. We got back together and now he breaks up with me. I don’t get it. I keep wondering if I did anything wrong, if I had just done things differently would we still be together. I know I should be thankful and just try to move on, but it’s very difficult.
mariposa,
Keep thinking about all those women on MySpace. These guys are so insecure that they need constant validation as to how desirable and great they are. Examples of this may be through: MySpace or Facebook, online dating, multiple love interests and of course their narcissistic harem. Remember, we cannot compete with low self-esteem, this is something they have to recognize and correct on their own.
Don’t look back!
Do these guys frequent strip clubs for attention???
Gaynor – these guys do lots of things for female attention. Some do worse things than others.
Casinos as well!
You know that is a good topic for discussion…. I know a few men who seem to have tons of women as “friends” on their Facebook and Myspace. Could this be another red flag?
Thanks everyone for the posts (and the shake!) LOL
Astelle: To answer your question… my xEUM is 33 and so am I
I too wonder why they need this harem or attention from different women/men. It’s like no matter what you do or don’t do– its a no win situation because all they think about his themselves!! If you’re supportive and loving and caring and giving…you are just feeding the monster!!! If you don’t,…. then what the heck are you having a relationship for then? We should get reciprication no? How come ONE good woman (or man) isn’t enough for these A**Clowns?? It is very hard to undrestand sometimes….. maybe we can’t and shouldn’t rationalize what is “UNRATIONAL” ??? I’m still trying to understand how and why my xEUM lives with someone…. Ok so I fell for the “IM not happy at home story” and here I thought… Ok… be happy with me!!! (Uhm— a little naive on my part i now know) and all of a sudden… he’s texting and phoning someone else…and denies it like a little child!!! Helloooo….. weren’t you asking for someone to love and care and be there for you? Wasn’t I being all those things???? So why do you need yet 3rd or 4th or who knows HOW many more parties? Well I’ve realized that I guess it isn’t about love for them…they say what they have to say to get what they want without thinking or caring about the other person. It is very difficult MARIPOSA….. I know how you feel.. but hang in there!
De: Was this person ever more than just a “Friend”? Or was it that you just wanted it to be more at some point?
Karen, once the new wears off, he is looking for somebody else.
His “homebase” is the live in girlfriend.
I remember, after I finally divorced my husband, his Mom said to me:
Yeah, the thrill is gone, nobody at home anymore waiting for him while he is out playing. So true, for most – if not all – fun is important, the lying and sneaking around, being secretive..
I hope my ex enjoys his Freedom 24/7.
Don’t read too much into MySpace, I don’t believe for a second they know all this women, some are friends of friends of friends and so on.
Keep in mind, also there are a lot of Fallback girls – I used to have that title myself unless I fall for another clown :)-, there are a LOT of women out there that tell them to beat it or never return their calls or accept another date with them.
My friend (she is 48) claims, that she would have spent 10 minutes with my ex Eum (not my ex husband) and be able to tell that he is screwed up, she calls them
James Bond Wannabe’s, cracks me up that term. I also believe the older they get the more pathetic they are, that is why I like to ask the ages of the EUM’s of the readers here.
A man in his 20’s, 30’s and early 40’s will be able to find the next “victim” fast, a man in his 50’s has a harder time.
I am also wondering how many of these clowns, just from the readers on this website, are addicted to Alcohol, drugs, gambeling or shopping or other stuff.
That would be a fun poll.
Grrrr…I bet if we all got together we would have so much fun. I hate that we let these dumb boys get the best of us. Walking wounded…that’s all we are. I want to get to a point where I don’t have to force myself to stay away from someone like this…I want to be healthy enough to do it right off the bat.
Well, my little exN is 66 years old and can enchant a whole ROOM of women. I used to watch in fascination. He basically could pick and choose whomever he wanted. When we met, he was never on my radar screen but boy, did he pursue me and never let me forget during our relationship that I ‘ignored’ him. I looked at him and thought “he’s an old man with a bald spot and questionable teeth”. But those eyes…..he’s a real charmer but no real sense of humor or connection. A male friend of mine said ‘I could never understand what you saw in him. There was something cold about him. I could only shake his hand and move on when I saw him”
Of course, no one tells you this when you are in the throes of the relationship – or perhaps I just never listened. I had no thoughts to stay with him for a length of time but boy, did I get hooked. And the sex was really good – even for a 66 year old!
He is 54.
The funny thing is is that he was very generous sexually. Too bad his generosity didn’t expand to other areas.
No addictions I’m aware of.
Gross JuJu!!!! 🙂
Its like this mysterious secret that other women have known all along and I just got clued in on. Its all so clear to me now. And I have to say that every day that I feel freer. I miss the intensity of my relationship but I now realize that it was truly an addiction.
Hi Karen,
thank you for asking really!, need to talk this out, I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.
Nothing happened cause I wanted to get to know him first,I wanted to protect my heart..I was testing my temperature the whole time and his behavour, not getting too close and keeping my emotions in check, thats why I think it’s just my ego and pride thats getting in the way somehow. I invited him into my life I totally take responsibility for that and he ate it all up..he likes it it’s a cosy world I have created for myself,He has devalued me on a number of occasions, really hurt.
He doesn’t want to leave. when he said he wanted to bring girls home ( I also wondered if this was him testing me to see if I was still ‘hooked’).I asked him to text me if he is thinking of bringing someone home as a curtesy, I explained if I am out then I will stay out longer so he can have some privacy. He yelled at me.. he doesn’t have to do take anyone into consideration and will do what he likes, that it is an unhealthy situation if he has to let me know. I explained that myself and past flatmates would always text each other to see if the apartment was free, if not they would then decide to go to the other persons place. He said he had to feel comfortable and I made him feel uncomfortable about it. I said to be honest I’m not comfortable but I’m not comfortable with anyone having sex with someone in the house cause the walls are like paper and you can hear a mouse breath. Thats why we always kind of made sure we had the place to ourselves. he said it was because i stillliked him and I said well maybe it is that too I don’t know, but I said to him I’m not interested in you (and thats true cause of how mean and devaluing he has been), anyway I agreed with him then he said, well i’ll leave you here alone in this apartment and find somewhere else. I said ok then.
so thats where I am. I can’t make head nor tail of how I feel anymore. Just that I want him gone so I can get happy again. he doesn’t say nice things to me and I totally support him in everything. I really tried to give with out expectation but I guess what I was hoping to expect was at least some thank you’s along the way.
De
That’s right Rachel!!! Know what else those other women have that we don’t have???
Self-respect, self-esteem and confidence in the fact that everything happens for a reason.
But…we are getting there.
Well no wonder!!! I kept asking myself… what I did wrong (as Im sure many of us do) to cause him to go for someone else. Thinking I wasn’t good enough– or that I did something wrong…. or that this other girl was giving him something that I couldnt. I was obsessed with finding out why… what did this new girl look like…? What were they talking about? Why did he prefer to talk to her and text her than me? I spent MONTHS (before I found this site) trying to figure out the why’s….and feeling so bad about myself (I lost about 20lbs!) I kept saying… but I thought we were happy…he keeps telling me he loves me…. (Until I found these texts and #’s on his phone) and it was such a shock to me. I was devastated!!! How could I have been soo blind?? How could he literally call me…talk to me…hang up and then dial this other woman’s # right after? What an A**!!! Oh and then when confronted— LIE About it…literally telling me that the sky was not blue when it was uhm… right in his face….. I had evidence! But I guess its like you said Astelle…. the newness of me wore off….and this woman has become the “flavor of the month or year or whatever!!” I can’t say it doesn’t hurt to feel discarded and used in such a way. I can’t say that Im not angry at myself for believing him. It took me a loooong time…. accepting one lie after another because I couldn’t let go…until finally I couldn’t take it anymore… I still struggle to let go but take it one day at a time. I guess knowing that all these A**clowns are about is getting a “fix”, and ego boost…that all they want is the chase or the attention— and then once that wears off– they are on to the next one is supposed to help me get through this but at times I still feel like I love him…despite all this madness! Im even jealous to an extent that this girl has his attention. I know I shouldnt be since he will most likely do the same to her but that thought creeps into my head every now and then. 🙁
I have to say the sex was the best I had ever ever ever had and probably ever will have. But he did not give it when ever I wanted it because that would be too much commitment…too much filling my expectations.
Ok, not quite true..I tried not to expect snything but ~I did have some hope our bond would grow stronger into something more, I totally took his rejection and have been self talking and getting overit on my own. but still the little bombs are hurting.
Yeah Rachel- I understand that. My no contact actually started on xmas when he wouldn’t put out for me after I made him dinner!! Ugh.
JuJu – you actually just pretty much described a sociopath. Go on Amazon.com and look up “The Sociopath Next Door,” or check out this link: http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_psychopaths_exploit_others
De:
I would say take a closer look at how you really feel. I think you do like/care about this person regardless if he feels the same about you or treats you right or recipricates. When I read your post it sounds to me that you are trying to have “control” in some way shape or form because deep in the back of your mind… you do want him. The healthy part of you is telling you that its not a good idea… that part that says you want him gone! Listen to that part more… because he is already giving you enough red flags and clues that a relationship with him is not possible. He may be feeling that your rules have other intentions or there are hidden reasons for you wanting him to text you if he was bringing some one over. Now really ask yourself… if he text you and said… “Im bringing a girl over”— isn’t the reason you are really asking because you want to know who he is with to see if you have a chance? Be honest with yourself… is it really because the walls are paper thin?? Or is it because you want to some how be able to control the situation because you DO like him? Now im not too clear in your response if whether or not you guys had a relationship or not or if you just liked him but never pursued anything. It sounds to me like you fell for this guy…. invited him into your life…was nice to him…gave and gave in hopes of him recipricating in the same way?? In hopes that he would see how good and nice and what a wonderful person you were and hmmm…I dont know…get to like you? Possibly fall for you as well?? If you haven’t done so yet— I urge you to read NML’s book… especially the part about what it means to be the “fallback girl”…. I think understanding what that means will help you to understand yourself better which in essence will help you get yourself out of this situation. I dont think you are being “unreasonable” in wanting someone to recipricate and say thank you and wanting him to respond in a kind and respectful manner…but I do think like many of us on here… you are searching in the wrong place… with someone who is unavailable to you for whatever reason (because he is dating many girls at once etc… again— im not 100% clear on your situation with him) Either way I do think you know how you feel…….. you dont feel good– you know that much right? He has said or done things to hurt you right? You feel like you would be better off if and when he is gone… you know that much. A lot of times (myself included) we say we don’t know what we feel or what to make of it– -in this case I think you know how you feel— you just have to have the courage to follow through with it, stand up for yourself and allow this person to leave. I think you know more than you give yourself credit for. Don’t let him cloud your mind or confuse you…. Trust your gut and your feelings and do what you FEEL will be best for you emotionally! I think you already know the answer to that question…… stay strong! 😉
BBP – I
Thanks for guiding me to that Sociopath site – these points stuck out:
– “abandons those who care about him at critical times in their lives” – I got dumped soon after I announced my sister was gravely ill
– “cheats with impunity” – who knows what he may have been up to….and there were issues but nothing I could pinpoint
– “abandon spouses and children without concern” – he has been married four time and has no or very little communication with his two grown children and thus his grandchildren
It makes me question HUGELY what the h*ll I was doing there with him for two years. ugh. Amazing how someone can grow on you to the point that you don’t notice the bad behavior. There were good times but always I had a sense that something was not right. I would get out of his car in the morning and say out loud “He’s an odd man”……what was I THINKING????? Or perhaps it was NOT thinking!
loverandfighter – which bit of “bald spot, questionable teeth and sex with a 66 year old” is most “Gross” worthy?? Actually reading this makes me wonder as well 🙂
Hi Karen,
We never had a physical relationship but we have spent the past three months working, living, eating, hanging out together, talking about everything. Yes I liked him and hoped he would fall for me if he saw how great it was to be with me, all the things you said are true, i gave and gave and we gave each other all our attention, then bit by bit i was giving and he was giving less, red flags. I feel/care about him and I wanted it (at one point) to go further, thats when I decided I should tell him how I felt cause I couldn’t understand the mixed messages I seemed to be getting, some were castles in the sky of my own making which I constantly held in check . Thing is if I am being controlling and manipulating it means I don’t care about him and thats where it hurts I’m punishing myself for liking him and he’s punishing me for liking him. I don’t want to be controlling thats why I said it’s fine I’m fine, but then I knew it wasn’t, I was trying to be brave and cool and one of those girls that say ok you don’t like me i’ll move on, I wanted to be that girl but I’m not and that hurts too. why can’t I be that girl?? Stupidly somehow in my mind because he doesn’t want me I feel I deserve the bad treatment for thinking I could have a chance, even though my better judgement tells me he is not for me anyway!!! The text thing is a double thing, the walls are truly thin I hate being here if a couple is in the next room and thats why in the past anyone sharing the flat has always texted each other, for privacy. it would be worse sooo much worse if it was him and another girl. The honest reason I asked him is both the walls and to keep myself out of emotional harms way. I would stay away. I absolutely iknow and expect it to hurt, thats why I want him to leave because it WILL happen and I don’t want to be around when it does.
I will listen to the part that wants him gone more, and i will read the book!! thank you,
JuJu, maybe it was a mixture of all of those things. 🙂 I got a set of “NO CONTACT” pompoms with your name written all over them. I got through another day of no contact…shew. It is getting easier, I have to be honest with myself. I think my constant contact was purely based on habit. My ex was such a meanie, and he thought it was so funny. He has one friend and they just feed off each other, its really sad actually. They make bets on woman all the time to see who get who’s attention first. Ugh…I am really glad to be out of their vicious cycle. I feel sorry for the next girl who gets hornswaggled into their world.
Exactly…I am not even jealous of his “others” because they are going to get the same or worse treatment than I did. I now know he is always going to end up alone.
I actually feel a bit sorry for my “sisters” who are going to experience this clown.
What is funny…as I read these posts…. I was not even that attracted to this clown when he was coming on to me. He just pursued me like no other man has ever done. It was a total turn on….of course my heart was reeling from a previous break up. He was actually a rebound that turned into what I thought was the love of my life.. Ha what a joke!
Oh I know that he doesn’t know all those people on MySpace. I asked him if he had any actual real life friends on there and he said 2 out of 5000. He said he started the MySpace page to promote art. His job isn’t even in art. All those women basically look skanky.
It’s been very difficult. I know I deserve better than what he has been giving me, but it’s still very difficult. It’s hard to believe he broke up with me over my asking him why he didn’t call me and his MySpace. He said that he couldn’t give me what I wanted, which was basically just more time and more phone calls. Said that he didn’t have to justify anything to anyone. I keep telling myself why I would want to be with someone that obviously doesn’t want me.
The thing I have a hard with is why did he chase me in the summer when I broke up with him only to dump me now.
Oh and he’s 40 overweight and balding. You would think he’s a supermodel the way he acts.
Rachel,
I wasn’t attracted to my EUM at first either, but he also pursued me like no other. He was very attentive when we first got together and than it started becoming less and less. The less he gave the harder I tried. I didn’t even realize that I should have just stopped. I was exhausting myself.
I had never heard of EUM until this stupid relationship than I started to try and understand what the hell was going on. I’m really thankful for this site.
Mariposa,
Same relationship here at the beginning. I now realize I have had at least 3 UM relationships in my life and they all broke my heart significantly. I am now 46 very attractive and wanting to find my last relationship. You see if women do not wake up to this type of man they can have an entire life of nothing but heartbreak.
loverandfighter –
Thanks for the JuJu banner on the pom poms 🙂
I have ignored all contact from the beginning because this is the way it has to be. He did me a favor by ending it – but, you know, I just couldn’t let him just disengage. So one night, our last night, I told him that we were ending it. I dumped the dumper :-)….
And, he already has someone else who he took up to stay at a friend of mines (her husband is his good friend). When my friend told me who he was with I said – “He dumped me for her?????” Good Lord! A sense of relief came over me – there is just no accounting for taste! And I know him – he does nothing – absolutely nothing – without an ulterior motive. I may be reading too much into this but he knew she would be on the phone to tell me they had spent the night at her house. Ugh – how pathetic. And, remember, age has nothing to do with maturity. He’s like a 16 year old brain in a 66 year old body. And he’s years (!) older than me.
And – just like your guy and his friend….these guys are on dating sites and line up a few women a night and dismiss them without barely any interaction. I think they probably never pay for the dates drink. They just what to see what they can “pull”.
What a MESS. We should start a revolution of some kind to stop this behavior. These men are, well, assclown classics!
L & F,
What do you mean that do adult men bet on who gets attention first? That is one of the saddest and most pathetic things I have ever heard. How old are they??
Mine was nothing to look at either.
Hahahah mine would not have been picked out of the cute pile either!
Ladies,
Why did we waste our time on ugly men?
Gaynor,
In certain ‘circles’, particularly taking place in bars, so called men do these things…
Such as having a wingman who attracts the women for his not so good looking friend.
I remember going out with a good looking friend of mine. We went dancing and there was a good looking young guy who asked her to dance. They were on the dance floor for about 3 minutes when the guy passed my friend over to a short bald not so good looking older gent who started dancing with her and chatting her up. Here was the wingman passing her off to the predator. What a set up.
I was shocked – so was my friend. The games these guys play.
Which is why one should not go to bars or clubs if you really, I mean REALLY, want to find someone to have a great relationship with. These guys are playing all the games in the books……
I just remembered the last time we met for dinner. I arrived early and was sitting at the bar talking to the owner of the restaurant when my ex-EUM showed up. The owner’s response was “he’s with you.” EUM was not pleased with this comment as he later repeated it at the table I don’t think it did very much for his ego. HAHA!!!!! 🙂
JuJu,
Very sad! You’re right they are predators!
Haven’t done the bar thing since I was 25. I go Salsa dancing occasionally but that is strictly for dancing.
So Gaynor..what these guys would do is the one would see a hot chick at a bar and my ex would bet say a dinner at a fancy restaurant that he couldn’t get her to give up her number. My ex is super shy. I totally pursued him until the very end. He would never have the balls to get a girl on his own.
These guys are older too!! My ex is 39 and totally acts like he is in college with the going out and drinking all the time. I don’t know how I got sucked in…its totally not my scene. If I made a list of all the things I want in a guy, my ex wouldn’t even stand a chance in my life now. He really got grandfathered in. I would never pick him on the street today.
I am really over the whole sad thing now and ready to move ahead. I know he isn’t thinking about me and it totally helps the getting on process. And I totally hated his dog. 🙂
L&F,
You’re right! They are behaving as if they are in college. Did he actually admit what they did at the bars? If so, what did you say to him?
Was the fool hurt in a previous relationship?
I am so with you! I would never consider this guy a proper mate. Not good enough to take home to my family! Be nice to the dog.
loverandfighter
The concept of grandfathered in is a good one. I am too embarressed to talk about my thoughts on grandfathering….but it is amazing what we will accept because we have been there already. Gee – then it must be OK! No thoughts about the end product (at least with me)
To you and Gaynor –
I had a mid life crisis in November. I turned 50. I thought – how did I ever get HERE?? Hard to believe – but I came through the worm hole and realised that post divorce and deciding to have fun in my 40s no longer worked. I need more stability and the little man was not able to step up to the plate. Mainly because it just isn’t in him – he was still part of the party ‘fun’ of my 40’s. Mind you, he dumped me.
So, now, I look at all these men differently while re assessing my past life from college onwards and boy – is there a pattern! Scary stuff. Never looked at it before.
No more drama. No more biting pits in my stomach. No more wondering how the night will end after one of the ‘parties’. I am outta there. Too much angst and too many antics on his part.
It’s now about being careful and pacing. No more falling into bed before I even really know the guy. I get too involved even when I start out with ‘its ok until I stop laughing’. Something my friends always remind me of. Its not good enough now.
JuJu,
Is the “little man” divorced?
I agree with approaching things in a much different manner. They say there is a positive to every situation. I think my positive is that it made me realize that I am ready for something real and permanent. I’m finally ready to share my life with someone. Thank you assclown for getting me to this point!
Went back and read he’s a four-timer. WOW!!!!
Did he proclaim to love you? Any idea why this one is so screwed up?
Hi
This is fantastic post and right were I am at the moment.
My birthday was the 18th December and I dumped my EUM for the last time the day before. I had put two days holiday for my birthday and hoped we would spend it together in the harsh reality I knew he didn’t and wouldn’t spend those days with me. On my birthday I got a TEXT yes a text saying happy birthday night he couldn’t even grace me with a phone call. After a few texts back and forth he called and I said what are you doing he said laid in bed watching tele I was like what at 1pm in the afternoon. And I asked him so you would rather spend time in bed watching tele than be with me he then put the phone down. So his answer was yes.
in the last couple of weeks he keeps texting every couple of days and rining me and withholding his number I answer and he put the phone down. All his texts say is Hi nat. I am sooooooo mad with him I have replied and answered the phone and said I know its you but now the only way to get at him is to not contact.
I feel very rejected and my self esteem is at an all time low as now he doesn’t even want to have sex with me its just about an ego stroke. Towards the ends of us seeing each other he couldn’t be arsed to have sex! I was like is there something wrong with me? Then I thought is he shagging someone else but like my mates have said who else would have him???? he is not great looking and his personal hygiene leaves alot to be desired! I have yet to see him brush his teeth!!!!! So now I just laugh as this assclown.
I really can’t figure him out he texts late at night when he is bored yet he doesn’t want to come over to mine. He is unemplyed and very lazy, greedy and selfish. His said I won’t spend £5 on a taxi when I can buy drink with it.
Any thoughts???
Thecat,
Go back and read NML’s post and then go back and read your post.
How gross – doesn’t brush his teeth, has bad hygiene. Why in the world would you even want to have sex with this guy?
What characteristics that you have listed attracts you to this man? I can’t see any redeeming value in him based on what you have listed.
Quit trying to figure him out and why he texts or calls you, it’s a waste of your time. Why not focus on yourself?
No contact is no contact, why continue to communicate in any way, shape or form? Let it go and find a man down the road who is deserving of you.
Quit compromising yourself and offering up your body as a token of preceived love. If this is a pattern for you, sit down and dig deep as to why.
Go get involved in something, go exercise, take up yoga and then give yourself a hug while you’re doing it.
Write out your boundaries and then stick to them, amazing what is not acceptable to you, don’t let anyone cross them and learn what red flags are for you, these will be your boundaries.
Learn to love yourself and you will find a peace….Gail
Gaynor
Actually, he isn’t a “little man” – he’s quite tall but he certainly acted that way on many an occassion!
Yes, not only married four times but divorced four times as well.
I was the next relationship. He never professed his love to me – or to anything. In fact, the first time I ever heard him say ‘love’ was when he left a voicemail for me at Christmas saying ‘I would love to hear from you’. Seriously! Of course, I am NC 🙂
Do I know why he is so screwed up?
Has to do with his upbringing though I cannot say anything further about that. I think he is borderline something – nacissistic, socio, who knows but there is something definitely there. He has many redeeming features but he was cheap, a lousy gift giver and egotistic.
You see, this is where I come undone. I knew he was all these things but stayed around anyway. This is the stuff I need to peel through and see why I stayed, why I went with him to begin with.
And to your point about a more permanent relationship in the future. I am sooooo with you. I am tired of all of this two year stuff with a wrong person. I decided that despite saying I would never get married again – I actually think I will! And now, by admitting this I will be much more careful in what I choose because the criteria is completely different – no more ‘I will stay with you until I don’t have fun any more’. And then stay much longer after it wasn’t any fun. Clinging on to a toxic relationship when my other friends question what I am doing with him….What was I thinking?
Oh thank the lord for this website, you saved my sanity, err not because of any men, nope got that one covered, but Ive finally seen a good friend start to smile again because of it, especialy the bit about ‘flipper flappers’ . Girls come on get a grip, dont be chasing men EVER especially low life emotionally stunted retards. Dry your eyes, stop tying yourself up in knots and laugh, its truly the biggest kick in the balls they can have, if its not, their not breathing, why would you want a corpse??? Move on, and start to live again.
I think we all ask “what was I thinking.” I think the only redeeming feature these guys have is charm but then you wonder why they have to use dating sites as their major source for ‘dating’ if they are so charming. Mine certainly did not fit into my criteria for Mr. Right, I will not make exceptions again!
Cat,
I agree with Gail all the way! Especially on the hygiene. Yuck!!!
JuJu, you wrote:loverandfighter – which bit of “bald spot, questionable teeth and sex with a 66 year old†is most “Gross†worthy?? Actually reading this makes me wonder as well ”
That is too funny! Are you close to his age?
JuJu, I just read your post, just teasing, but yeah gross!!! 🙂
I draw the line at 55!!! 🙂
Astelle,
No, I just turned 50 (shock!).
As Gaynor says, these guys are so charming. If you saw his little cock dance when he got excited in a group of people……I always enjoyed that since he was obviously enjoying himself but then, or now, I see it differently – that he was so stimulated by the “adulation”.
Here’s a couple of things he used to say/do:
“I cannot believe how ______(insert his friends name) is so devoted to you – he would do ANYTHING you ask”
EX – “And that surprises you?” (dead serious face gazing at me)
or:
EX – “why didn’t you dance with me tonight?”
ME – “because you were too busy having pictures taken with all those women”
EX – “That’s what they expect!”
Ugh! And now he is trotting around with a woman who is gushing all over him – I suppose that is one thing I didn’t do. Particularly in public. “Gushing” is not my style.
So even with the age, bald spot and questionable teeth he is still a charmer and pull in the ‘younger’ babes 🙂 In fact, I think the gusher may be younger than me……..
Awwwww men, you gotta love em…
Its her funeral now. Let it go. He’ll always be alone. Be free, happy and content. Surrond yourself with love and lots of laughs. Go take a bath and know today-tommorrow you gonna know where your at. Not being arsed around by some tosser with nothing better to do than go out to have his ego massaged.
You are so worth much more than that! Give yourself a hug from all of us. Infact all of you, give yourself a hug from me. You have all added so much to my self esteem in the last 2 months. Not sure I ever needed any one more. And all of you have understood exactly what I have been going through. Thanks.
A friend of mine discovered this website and we both LOVE it. 🙂 Reading stuff like this helps me to refresh my memory and my ignore-assclowns skills. 😉
Thanks Gail and Gaynor my friends say exactly the same as you. The reason I have to vent on here now is that my friends are just sick of me going on about him.
I say things like but why doesn’t he want me and my friends are like why do you want him.
The hygiene when I first got with him was bad real bad so I finished with him after 3 weeks his BO and feet smelt appaling. Then a so called friend told me he was seen with another woman in a nightclub and I felt sick to my stomach with jealousy. Now any woman who wants him can have him. After the taking you out and great sex faze he ends up just coming and staying over without sex for the go massage. I did actually tell him he needed to shower/ bath more and he said he did. I also said well you need some anti perspirant deodorant. I think I hope that I have dented his self esteem but I doubt it. Whilst he has totally depleted me of my self esteem by calling names like fat, ugly etc. This guy is 40 has no job, lives with his mam, doesn’t drive, takes drugs has been in his prison for stalking his ex. I visited him for 6 months. Oh and he has a 10 year old son who lives with his aunty around the corner from him who he does not take anywhere or interact with. I on the other hand am 28, have my own house, a really good job, great family, no children, a nice car and although I may be overweight I am attractive. Sometimes I just cry for no reason for how he has made me feel. However I do accept responsibility as why did I keep going there when I knoew it was destructive and toxic relationship. If you can even call it a relationship.
I am now embarking on a new phase in my life I have started a diet, started going to the gym and started catching up with friends more.
This site is my saviour!!!!!!
Oh, jeez, he just called again – second morning in a row, obviously checking if I still have a pulse.
I hate this, what an a**
“I dont know whether you dont want to talk with me or return my calls or something else is going on. I have not been trying to get away from you or walk away from you.”
And he just spent last weekend with someone else…….
He has a very short memory
Thecat
Dear the man you have described is what most of us call A complete Looser! That does not make you a looser for in your sweet heart somewhere you found something redeemable about him and that makes you an amazing person. Having said that you need to do some serious searching as to why you would accept someone with so many unacceptable problems. Seriously what you have described is a low form of negative. Don’t expect positive behaviour when 97% of his life is negative. He obviously makes really bad decisions as proof of his past. You do not accept poor hygiene of yourself why would you accept it of another? Look back on the post about the “Me Club” it makes sense talk to someone about raising your standards of people in your life. It’s not shallow to expect that the man in your life have a decent job and take care of his body.
I am not writing this in criticism I hear that you are now recognizing how really wrong for you this guy is. I just hope you stay strong and really realize how much you have going for you and expect more from people in your life.
JuJu
Let your falling off the face of the earth to him be the mystery he ends up living with. He is pretending to be dumbfounded as to your behaviour it’s part of his crazymaking – to try to get you to think that it’s your fault and not his that you make him do the things he does ie: spending the weekend with other women.
He is checking for your pulse, he knows it used to beat for him. Now it beats for you and you are cleaning out the garbage from your life so you have room for something worthwhile once you find it.
Rachel
You are soo right. the message was all about him and turning it around to me. Funny, he hasn’t been the classic EUM but the more this goes on (my NC) the more he starts fitting into the realm.
Interesting why he doesn’t take the time to look in the mirror and figure it out. But then he wouldn’t be able to handle what he sees.
I needed you comment to catapult me onwards….thank you!! 🙂
I am now going out and doing a bit of cross country skiing in this beautiful new snow! Thank God for the life I am blessed to have
Love to all……
JuJu, Rachel is right, he is pretending…
I like this article NML has written. Im def going to get my dearest, kindest friend katie to read it. Her guy has walked this interlectual beautiful woman into the ground. To be honest it makes my blood boil. How the hell dare a man take advantage of such a great woman. My parter had a chat about this article and in the most part he is a man!!!!! yeah we have or moments, but one thing that struck me was what he said. It was that even if a woman has weak boundaries, this should show a man just how much he means to her, and any guy worth his salt would look at that with love and affection, and know that he was damn well lucky, cos believe it or not ladies men get hurt to and at times they feel like jacking the dating game, and that just because of a lack of boudaries does not mean he should take the preverbial. My bloke sums it up, any bloke that blows hot and cold is afraid, but interestingly he also added that sometimes men go cold because they get to a point in the relationship where they know its gonna have to be a commitment, but woman then kinda backtrack on what they say, sort of panic because they start denying that they want commitment when its talked about, even covertly, therefore he will pull away, because no man wants to make himself look a fool, so they back of at a hell of a rate, and pretend that it really didnt matter blah blah blah. I guess what hes saying is that relationships are complex and even when we dont recognise it we are giving out mixed signals at times that we dont realise. However he did add that was no excuse not to ring, show up or go shag another. I dont particualry like my friends guy, I did, but in truth when I speak to her I get mixed signals from her, I see that what she wants is to be with this man, but when I ask her what she wants she denies that she’s looking for a commitment. So he could have a point. when I bought this up, he looked scared as he really didnt want to get involved in relationship discussions, the footie was just starting. lol. Its a thought tho.
Gaynor, in reference to your last dinner with him and the bartenders comment, other people can see or feel something is wrong with him. 🙂
When I went out with a**clown, my then 16 year old daughter said to me: Mom, I don’t like him, something is very wrong with him.
1.5 years later when I we started to go out again, my daughter said:
Mom, I can’t believe you are seeing him again, something wrong with him, didn’t like him back then and I still don’t like him. 🙂
Astelle,
I think the comment was more on his physical attractiveness. The owner hadn’t spoken a word to him as he had just walked in. He wouldn’t know he was an assclown.
Hi
I need a good stiff kick, please…….
Remind me what an idiot he is and all the non empatheitc crap he put me through. He texted this morning asking to meet for coffee. Fortunately the cafe he wanted to meet in is closed for good (how ironic!) so my response was the boarded up windos 🙂
And now I am sitting here thinking I should text back and I sure as h*ll don’t want to. So, after nearly two months of NC and he starts putting pressure on, why am I still addicted to him?
There are so many other more important issues going on (26 people in my office were let go yesterday – yes, just pack up and leave).
And all I can concentrate on is this moronic excuse for a man.
Thanks for you help and kicks!
Deep Breath JuJu,
You know if you text back you will be back to waiting for a response… that eventually he will leave you hanging again. He is just checking for your pulse. Listen to what your gut is telling you. Be honest with yourself…. if part of you is saying “let that ass go” then do it. Be too busy doing something positive for yourself to text back.
You’re addicted b/c you’re allowing yourself to be. It’s up to you to take control. Why did you respond to begin with??????
JuJu, this guy has been married four times and has offered you nothing. Time to go NC and stick with it!! It has nothing to do with him but it is up to you to end this cycle.
Is that enough of a kick???? .
JuJU,
If he is not complying with your request for NC, then why don’t you file a complaint for harassment with the Police?
JuJu, how is he putting pressure own?
Ju Ju
call your best friend instead and go to movie or go to the gym, or do anything……talk to her/him about all the sh**t he put you through.
Hey – thanks for the swift ones.
Things were just peddling along nicely with some pathetic mails from him which I would just delete. Then starting this weekend suddenly there was a step up in contact – calls which I didn’t answer and then this morning – the fact that he was just next door this morning when texting just threw me.
And yes, my fault that I let it get to me.
And Gaynor, thanks for the specifics on his marriages. That always sets me straight. I am still NC – I have not responded to him
And I did call a friend. Sadly she is in Miami but she also reminded me of his idiocies and that he is way beyond redemption.
The obsession is mine. There is this big gap of time now on my hands which I used to spend with him. There are shows on TV that I watch now that I didn’t even know existed!
And the really sad thing is that because of him I am actually going to therapy – what??? I should send him the bills.
Thanks for your support
JuJu,
You know it was tough love.
I am serious about filing a police report for harassment. Why don’t you do it?
Admittedly, he is an assclown but he is also a pretty upstanding citizen. He would be mortified. I know, who cares about how he would feel……it would be a pretty severe move and one I don’t think is warranted – yet.
I have a feeling that not responding to him today will put a nail in the coffin for him anyway. I think he cannot comprehend how I could be done with him – all ego.
So, short of telling him to leave me alone at the next go-round, if there is one, I would consider it but threaten him in advance with such a move.
How are you, by the way?
Going to the police is taking this too far, plus you have to have proof he is harrassing you, proof that you told him to leave you alone.
Not responding will do the trick. JuJu, I don’t understand you, you know he was spending the weekend with other women, don’t let this 65 year old man jerk you around, you are too young for him unless you want to be his nurse in the near future. 🙂
You said he is making more contact after 2 months of no contact. He is not sitting there thinking: hmm, JuJu applied the NCR on me, he only knows that he hasn’t heard from you and that is it, he has no clue! Once you understand – took me a looong time to understand –
when he gets in touch is not because he is missing you, it is about WHAT and WHEN HE needs or want it, never about you, all about HIM!
It is really that “simple” once you understand these games, manipulation and control.
With your dude, I thought for a minute he may have a little dry spell so he is contacting you, but I changed my mind, he strikes me as :”the more the merrier”.
You will not even be his plan B – which is shitty enough – more plan C,D..
Is this a good enough kick to stick with NC?? 🙂
Astelle
Yes, THAT kick will certainly work 🙂 I hate not being #1!!!
And you are right – with him it is probably based on “the more the merrier”. And as I always said about him, he does nothing without an ulterior motive. And it is always to his benefit.
Besides, if he had a chance to talk to me I am sure that his objective would be to turn this all around and make it MY crazymaking and MY issue (I am really quite sane) – just to assuage his guilt
This too shall pass.
And the focus will shift (as it waivers now) away from him to me
I believe that if you have repeatedly asked someone not to contact you and they are disrespecting this request you should at least threaten to contact the police, if this does not work file a report. Harassment is harassment!
It is not difficult to set this up through your phone company as I had to do this with a stalker in the past. You do not have to prove you have told him to leave you alone.
Food for thought, ladies.
This is what I just don’t understand. If these men don’t care about you why do they keep coming back for more? Do they seriously not care that you have feelings for them and that it is the wrong thing to do? I would never do that to someone.
You’re a compassionate, normal person. That’s why you would never do it.
They keep coming back to get sex or ego stroke or both, it has nothing to do with the woman. They are selfish and users!
Yes they do keep coming back, so once I felt better I quite often turned the tables. Like setting up a reunion at my place, knowing full well I would be out of town and send their subsequent calls to voice mail. Setting up dates and not showing up and dodging calls. It’s much easier and more satisfying than filing a police report, and those die hards that keep trying to come back finally got the hint.
Do they keep coming back even if you have broken it off with them three times? isn’t that enough already?
They continue to come back if they know you’ll let then back in.
A friend broke off with her ex-EUM five times, it would have been six if she finally had not broken off the cycle.
Break the cycle and stay NC!
So she just kept taking him back and nothing changed?
Yes! This was over a two-year period. She had finally said enough was enough but remains friends with him-she has a lot of co-dependent issues and actually feels sorry for the creep (liar, cheater, online while in relationship, etc….. To this day will still make occasional sexual advances towards her. Yuck!
Lastly, he had the nerve the last go around to recommend an open relationship, this is someone who had proposed three-months prior-he bailed one-week after the proposal . What a winner!
It’s been two years for me. He’s married. I have broken it off three times. My last time being dec. 30. I sent my third email ending it. He was just once again treating me like crap.
leeanne,
I’ve broken up with MM too, but this last time it was him. I guess I just got too demanding. No more fun for him, so what was the point. How are you doing since your break up?
how long has it been since he broke it off? Do you think it is finally the end for you guys? I am ok. I really believe that he won’t come back this time because he knows i want more than he has to offer. i don’t know I may be giving him too much credit. He is a user.
I have broken up with my ex EUM probably about 5 times. He keeps rearing his ugly head and I was still living in a dream world hoping that he would change. He’s a guy who has been divorced for many years, but has very serious commitment issues.
I had NC for 3 months and then he contacted me for the holidays and I started talking to him again…mostly online, also on the phone…after a week or so I told him it was difficult to be friends…and he said okay he understood, but then proceeded to keep in contact and I kept talking to him too. I’m in serious internal pain now…the conflicting feelings and what has been going on in my head is so difficult, yet I feel like I am having difficulty cutting the contact. I feel stupid to just block him from email even though I know it’s what I have to do…and I feel stupid saying anything to him again. I know that he is not going to change…I’m pretty sure he is seeing someone, and I don’t know why I am torturing myself to be a martyr and be friends with him when each time I have contact it reminds me of not being able to have what I wanted with him. HELP!!! I’m in inner turmoil…my therapist doesn’t seem to understand…she tell me if I can have a relationship without expectations, then I should if I want to….ugh…………………
leeanne,
He broke up with me Jan 5th. It was really bad. I asked him why he hadn’t called me in over a week and about his MySpace. I think I was acting too much like his wife and that is a big no no. He said he couldn’t do this anymore and broke it off. I haven’t heard from him since. I’m not sure if he’ll even try to make contact. Most times I try to think that it’s for the best, but I do miss him. I guess I miss what it use to be.
working on me,
I’m sorry you’re going through such a hard time. I understand I’m going through the same thing. I think there’s nothing you can do, but go through the pain. I know we try and avoid it for so long, but we’re just postponing the inevitable.
I am so sorry you are both in pain. I have been in NC for 2.5 months now. Unbearable pain but you just need to keep reading, writing, talking, and reading and writing and talking some more. I read somewhere that the pain you feel is normal when you give something up your mind makes you think and think and think about it and then at some point your mind allows you to give it up. I also read that the pain you feel is not the same thing as the love you feel – most of the time we confuse the pain with loving. You need to treat it like a death… morn it … grieve it and know that it is real to you and allow yourself to get past it. I have been majically feeling better for weeks now. I never thought I would get past the intense pain but I did. You have to walk through it.
Thank you Rachel. It’s been 2 weeks for me. Some days are better than others. I want to pick up the phone so bad to talk to him, but then I think what’s the point. 2.5 months of NC are great. I hope I can get there.
I have said this before that what kept me from picking up the phone was knowing that he would leave me hanging again….not be there not return my phone call or text….another sleepless night with my heart in my hand as he played his game. I could not take the pain anymore. With him or without him it was painful….but without him….in time…. I did cross that great river of pain and I do feel better and I feel different. I feel stronger and smarter and better off without him.
Rachel,
That is exactly why I am more committed to NC this time. Nothing ever changes. I would go back to wondering when I would see him again, if he would call, answer my texts, etc etc. I can’t do the waiting anymore it is excruciating. I once said to him exactly what you said above. When I am with you I am unhappy and when I am without you I am unhappy, but you are right. If I stayed the unhappiness would last and last. Without him in time I will move on and not feel the pain.
leeanne,
That is the reason I don’t call him because I too would be waiting around for him. Besides that he was the one to break up with me. These situations are so alike it’s hard to believe. How long have you been NC?
I broke it off with him for the third time in 2 years on December 30. No contact since then. It is just better this way. He is a total mess, married, alcoholic, work problems, etc etc. Sometimes I do feel a sense of relief that it is over
mariposa & rachel…thank you for your kind words and encouragement…These guys are full of games…I finally told him not to contact me yesterday…today is the first day of NC…I flip flap back and forth, knowing I’m strong in what I’m doing, but I have this pull to want to see if he’s online…I block and then unblock and drive myself nuts…but you are right, mariposa, it took me a good two months to start feeling better and then after the third month, I still thought about him, but was feeling much better…then he contacted me right before the holidays…
What I realized today is that I feel battle weary, and it’s because of the internal conflict I feel inside of me…that conflict that was enjoying the contact with him and the voice of reason…that told me…he’s not worthy of having your friendship…but even when I told him not to contact me yesterday, I was too nice…so.. here I go again…I’ll get through the pain…and come out better…but NC is really like wearing a bullet proof vest…you can never take the vest off or you leave yourself open to get hit by their game…
I know I have to realize that I am worthy and can’t be drawn in by the chemistry and charm…know that I need to have good boundaries, know that I will not accept less…and know that I’m whole without a man…that’s the hardest part…
I love all of you ladies…thanks for your support!
I haven’t talked to MM in over 2 weeks. We work in the same building but different floors. Today he came up to my floor and I could hear him talking and even laughing. He was in the cubicle right next to mine. It was very difficult to deal with. Why did he come up here? I’m sure he could have sent someone else. I felt bad because although we’re not talking to each other he made no attempt to see me, but for some reason made sure I heard him.
I’m wondering about something else. Did your EUM like to keep you insecure? Mine always made comments like he didn’t care about me. I couldn’t understand it.
Oh the anguish… I would not go backwards for anything..thank you for reminding me why I went NC in the first place. See how we work together on this site? 2.5 months of NC is just long enough to think I am actually removed enough to talk to him if he should call …. and I know he will.
Rachel,
How do you know he will call? Did you guys end on a bad note? Yeah the anguish was bad, but I’m starting to calm down.
I know that at times he thought he loved me more than anyone in the world. I know that at times he wanted to be everything to me. I know that at times he thought he was truly in love with me. He was not a monster just a really f-ed up guy who some how got so afraid of making a commitment that he ended up never making one. I know I was not just a number but he just could not do what I needed him to do and that was put both feet in the relationship along with mine. He was so afraid that I would take over his life…. maybe tell him how to live and limit his fun that he could never fully commit to me. Perhaps I thank/ or blame his mother who he loves /hates and whom I have never met. But I felt shreds of love from this man but it was like a spark that quickly flamed out. It was nothing to build a life on nothing to leave town for. He blew hot and cold – he was so intelligent and successful but completely unable to have a really close loving relationship. It truly is his loss. I truly believe he feels the loss of me but I cannot go back with a man who blows in and out of my beautiful life bringing me so much pleasure and the next week so much pain. He will contact me again we have done this before but it was always him that broke contact. Now it is me that has broken contact and this time he has lost me forever. I will not go back for seconds to bruise my beautiful and sweet loving heart. This girl is done and looking to the future for someone more like me. I have pity for the sisters who encounter this man for he truly is a beautiful yet evil piece of work.
Rachel,
That was an awesome post. Your guy sounds a lot like mine. He’s very intelligent and succesful, but unable to truly love someone. He blew hot and cold. It just got too exhausting.
Yes I could no longer take my heart being dissappointed and at the same time yearn for him. Its so crazy how these men can take a grown woman and reduce her. I have learned so much about men, me and relationships. It really does feel like a secret that the rest of the world has known and I just found out about.
Since I started NC I have been asked out by 3 men. Of course I was not ready to date but thought I should get out there. It was an eye opening experience. I heard with new ears how they would talk about other women or keep plans loose in order to not be tied to anything. I could go on and on and needless to say I shut them down very early on, it only took one date. I also thought about how I would have interpreted their behaviour before finding this site. I would have fallen right back into another stupid relationship with an ass clown. I am not dating nor thinking about dating for the next 6 months. I am listening to myself, journaling, and reading so I never have a heartbreaking experience again.
Rachel,
Maybe I should do the samething and not date. I’ve gone out with 3 different guys and none of them really interested me. One of them is coming on really strong. He even sent flowers to my work and I’ve only gone out with him 3 times. I wonder if that is a red flag? Don’t EUM come on very strong at first. Gosh…this a lot harder than I thought.
Besides that I haven’t gotten over the current EUM, which really isn’t current. I know I need to work on myself.
Mariposa and Rachel,
I am sticking to that plan as well. I am so early on in my grieving process. I want to spend the next 6 months on myself- dieting, exercising, getting over this, etc. I am with you Rachel, I could no longer take feeling so amazing one week and feeling totally disregarded like I did not exist the next. It was physically and emotionally taxing. With my ex it seemed that the bad started to outweigh the good. This time is going to be for ME!
Exactly! I am focusing on me excercising trying to eat right. My EUM was a rebound relationship and yes they do come on fast and furious and I was loving the attention. I fell for him not as fast as he seemed to but when I did fall for him I fell hard. The last thing I want is a rebound relationship. I want a clear head when I meet a really nice guy…. and a clear head when I meet a real jerk. My gut instinct is tell me to take time out. I have had enough drama to last for a while.
leeanne,
How are you dealing with the grieving process? I’m having a hard time just getting through the days. I know he’s an assclown so why can’t I get him off of my mind. I’m afraid that if he came back to me I would take him back.
Hopefully this thread is okay for this question.
I have just been contacted by a friend on my ex – a rather good friend of the ex. He left a message saying he hadn’t seen me in awhile, what’s going on, if everything is OK blah, blah. I would do NC on all of them (the friends) if need be but then I don’t have a problem with any of them (or some of them…some of the toxic ones I could leave behind). So – questions – do I ignore him so I don’t get into a ‘conversation’ or should I be ‘civil’ and call him back – later.
Mind you, I haven’t heard from the ex since last week – I don’t think this is contact is prompted by the ex (have a feeling I have heard the last from him). I have been NC since the split (two months!). My therapist was very pleased with that news this morning 🙂 As he said “what’s the point in responding to him?”
Anyway – thoughts? I am sure some have run across this ‘friend contact’ as well…what did you do?
Rachel – my ex EUM said the exact same thing yours did
when you wrote…”he just could not do what I needed him to do and that was put both feet in the relationship along with mine. He was so afraid that I would take over his life…. maybe tell him how to live and limit his fun that he could never fully commit to me.” I thought I was reading my own writing. It’s spooky how they say the same things…
What I am realizing is that with mine, who keeps rearing his head every few months after I’ve told him not to contact me…is that I should be ANGRY as hell at him for hurting me in the first place…breaking my heart into pieces and then coming back and doing it again and again…yeah, I’ve beat myself up enough….but I’m only human…kept wanting to believe he really loved and missed me..when all he would do is screw me over again. These guys are worse than dirt. I realize I was turning the anger on myself instead of where it belongs…on him…Now, I’m not afraid if he contacts me…I’ve always been oh, so sweet in telling him to not call because I need to move on and I’m hurt…next time I’ll tell him to F–ck himself…then ignore his sorry a**, I’m happy I’m finally realizing that I am entitled to be angry at his poor, shitty treatment of me…he thinks I’m going to accept crumbs…this round he was contacting me almost every day under the guise of friends…throwing me crumbs when I want a whole loaf…screw him!!!!
I think we need to get angry and stop feeling sorry for ourselves…We deserve more and not one more minute am I going to pine for this a**clown!
JuJu
My advice would be ignore the friends of the ex too…even though they may be nice, they are a connection to him…better for you to just cut it clean!
Hello everyone,
I made the huge mistake of playing the fool for 4 years. I’m finally contact free for one month. I must admit I still long to hear his voice and see him. He was quite the guy – he swept me off my feet at first. I had not been in a relationship for over 11 years as I was assaulted and avoided any relationships and intimacy for years. He persisted and I finally confided in him. He was wonderful and patient at first and just when I finally fell for him I found out he was in the process of breaking up with his girlfriend – imagine I had been dating him for 3 months. He conviced me it had been over for a long time and he was just trying to help her out. I believed him and continued the relationship. I trusted him again. When I was finally comfortable with my body, the relationship and letting him in completely he pulled away and I suspected he was seeing someone else. I tried to end it but he hung around and we dated on and off. He wouldn’t go away; we saw each other at least 3-4 times per week. I started falling again and this time he drops a doozy – a woman he had dated a few times was pregnant with his baby. He gave me the whole sob sorry of what a screw up he was and what could he do but be with her. I’m embarrassed to say that I continued the relationship and continued to sleep with him, I feel horrible about this as I should have let him be with this woman and not let myself be a factor, but I was blinded by my love. He made me believe he was in the situation for the baby only and that I was important to him. I tried to keep him as a friend, but we kept creeping into a physical relationship. I then find out through the grapevine that he’s left this woman who had his baby and is living with someone else that he had been in a relationship with for over 6 months. What a fool I’ve been. I don’t understand why I still miss him. Why I long to hear his voice. I read this back and realize he’s a loser, but what the heck is wrong with me. I’m trying so hard to let this go and I’m getting stronger. I realize this was not love – I guess it was something to help me get over all the other bad things that happened – but I am worth more. So I continue to long to hear from him, sometimes he calls, but I ignore the calls.
Let’s hope I can keep strong.
Oh Finallystrong, I so feel for you! I know– you know– you must stick with it this time. It truly is best to move forward with your life now so that something really nice can happen for you. Here in just another month and 1/2 you will look back and be totally amazed at what crap you took in this relationship. You will no longer miss him but you will miss the 4 years you wasted in tears, trying to understand him, waiting for a commitment, waiting for a crumb of confirmation that he loved you and you alone.
It will all become very clear in just a few more weeks that what you are doing now it the right thing to do. Why does it hurt so bad? Its not because you loved him that painfully much it is that you are giving something up….. giving something up that you partially loved and partially did not love. You are now to the point that whether you are with him or not you are in pain. That is a good sign that it should not be your future, pain is a warning that something is wrong. It’s all going to be ok…. read this site, write in a journal, read and enjoy the support that this place can give you. The first part of your story is exactly like mine…. had a girlfriend he was in the process of breaking up with. Now I know better thanks mostly to the women and NML for their insight into this type of man.
Thanks Rachel, logically I know I shouldn’t talk to him – but I do miss him. I’m starting some counselling as well. Funny I feel so close to him because he is the only person I’ve ever shared the horrible things with. I feel used and betrayed but still want him. I’m totally one of those people who overthinks things. I can’t help thinking he didn’t give me a real chance because he knew I was screwed up. I get so caught up in the what ifs. Obviously we were not the right fit as I didn’t make him want to step up and be a better person, but at first he did bring out some really good things in me and helped me to cope with things I had buried for years. I can feel myself waffling. I will not call him. I will not call him.
Hey all,
I often read here of us all dealing with the weird feeling of knowing these men and relationships are not right or good for us, and yet, still missing the person. It is odd, indeed. But, don’t beat yourself up for it. In one way, it is only natural to miss someone who has been in your life in a significant way for awhile. That is natural. But, we must make the break, if it isn’t a relationship that is going to lead anywhere. Painful, but true. It is a loss, and grief is what you are feeling. Think of it like a death. But, you are still living, you will go on, you will survive, and life will be good again. Probably, better.
What I am curious about, is the hold these type of relationships seem to have on everyone. I read about all of us knowing to let go, yet, we miss them. Feel a connection, etc. What kind of magical thinking or fog do these men create, that makes usually logical and responsible women fall under their spell? Maybe, it’s all that lack of self esteem thing? They are the wizards of casting spells upon women of low self esteem? Strange, their pull is confusing, to say the least.
Well, time to kick butt girls! Cast the emperor with no clothes and the wizard of no return to the curb. We are the witches of real relationships. I hope anyway.
Best to all. TS.
Rachel:
Of course on the first few dates men talk about other women or keep plans loose – that is how casual dating works – you’re dating others and so are they. It is only once you’re in a committed relationship – after you have taken the time to get to know one another – that other women/men fall by the wayside and plans firm up.
Who cares who else they’re dating – you’re not their girlfriend – you’re not sleeping with them – they’re not committed to you! They can do what they want!
If we don’t want to be used by men, we shouldn’t sleep with them until we’re in a committed relationship – i.e. exclusive – when you’ve met their relatives and friends – when you’re discussing marriage/living together – when neither of you is involved with anyone else. If we dont’ want to be used by men – we don’t call them – we don’t make plans with them – we don’t ask where the relationship is going – WE tell THEM when and under what circumstances we will have sex with them (or anyone else).
It is only after we sleep with men that we lose our power so we need to make damn sure they love us and are committed to us BEFORE we do so. Keep your pants on until you have what you need – marriage, a formal engagement, living together, exclusiveness, etc.
If it starts out casual – if you’re sleeping with him before you’re exclusive – before you’ve met his family – when he isn’t calling you as often as you’d like – when he isn’t treating you as you would like – we as women have only ourselves to blame.
For God’s sake – TAKE BACK YOUR POWER! Quit giving it away! Keep your damn legs crossed until the relationship is exactly as you want it.
If you’ve already slept him – cut him off until he does a. b. and c. Tell him what you need “I love you, but if I’m going to continue to see you I need…… Until I get that, I can’t see you anymore.”
You want marriage? ‘I love you, but I want to be married. If you don’t want that with me, that is fine, but I can’t see you anymore.’
Then, to prove it – QUIT SEEING HIM! QUIT CALLING HIM! QUIT TEXTING AND EMAILING! If he calls or emails, be polite and when he asks to see you say, “Are you ready to do….?” If not, tell him NO! Do not see him until he GIVES you what you need!
When you continue to see a man who refuses to meet your needs you show total disrespect for youself. Why should a man treat you any better than you treat yourselves???
You treat yourselves like garbage by continuing to see these men! Then complain when they do the same thing?
Meanwhile, WORK ON YOURSELVES! We are treated this way because we ALLOW ourselves to be treated this way. We sleep with them with no commitment (WORDS are not a commitment! ACTIONS are a commitment!). We sleep with them with no relationship (dating is not a relationship!). We sleep with them when they don’t love us (lust is not love). Then we whine when they cheat, lie, dump, abuse.
THAT IS WHAT MEN DO TO WOMEN THEY DON’T LOVE AND ARE NOT COMMITTED TO!
This has nothing to do with being ’emotionally unavailable.’ This has to do with giving away the goods – FOR FREE – and then complaining AFTER the fact that you weren’t paid! It is your JOB to continually test men! Do not allow them access to ANYTHING until they have PAID for the right to access it!
We women have RUINED an entire generation of men with our laziness! It is our own fault! Keep your legs crossed, get off your knees, get to work and get some dignity! Quit allowing these jackasses to USE you!
OK Lisa,
You have spoken some very real truths. But, I suspect, the reason you are even on this site, is that you have also fallen down to this type of relationship, maybe? I do so appreciate your cheerleading mentality for every woman here, but, can you spell out in a more real way, how you got there? I would like to know. You sound very strong about it, let us in on how you got there. Best. TS.
Are you saying there is no such thing as an emotionally unavailable man, Lisa??
Some women do wait to have sex with a man to become exclusive etc. but if a man sees you has hard to get won’t he play harder and lie to you and say yeah yeah I’m dating you exclusively etc. want to marry you and can match their words with actions until they get what they want and then revert to type..
I agree we should be prepared to take responsibility for our part played in a relationship but no way should we take the blame for a man’s lousy behaviour they are accountable for their own behaviour .
Lisa I’m with you all the way but Tulipa also made some valid points. For many of us on here these guys told us and showed us they loved us until we returned that love,then they bailed. I can say now that there was one major red flag and that was him telling me he was in love with me after dating 1.5 months. Now I know better.
“Some women do wait to have sex with a man to become exclusive etc. but if a man sees you has hard to get won’t he play harder and lie to you and say yeah yeah I’m dating you exclusively etc. want to marry you and can match their words with actions until they get what they want and then revert to type..”
Is the engagement ring on your finger??? Is he with YOU every Friday and Saturday night??? Can you get him on the phone anytime you want to???
No – the ‘red flags’ are always there – we just don’t want to see them. We SCREAM to these men – LIE TO ME!
Do not sleep with him until you are SURE he is committed to YOU and ONLY you!
Lisa,
In my case, I saw him 4 days out of the week and when we didn’t see one another we were on the phone 4-5 hours per day. Honestly, I don’t know what else I should have been looking for?????
TS – I’m sorry – I wrote a eight paragraph reply to you that for some reason did not post! So I will try to recreate a short version.
Yes, I have been in this situation – and 20+ year relationship (with children) with a so-called EUM. After working on myself (and taking responsibility for my part in it), I have changed it to where I hold the power. Our relationship is better than I had ever hoped it could be. More importantly, I am better than I ever thought I could be!
I will never stop working on me, which is how I found this site. Reading the posts (and some of the advice), I had to put my two cents up. I can see the hurt and the pain – and it is so unnecessary!
If you’re not getting what you need – cut him OFF! Don’t grovel, don’t be a bitch – nicely say ‘Hey, this is what I want, need – what about you?’ Then wait for him to SHOW through his ACTIONS!
Talk is cheap. Men will say and do whatever to get what they want. Don’t let them. Set your standards – stick to them – and make them PROVE themselves. You deserve no less!
Men want sex. We want commitment. Fair trade. Show me the ring!
There are men who are messed up – mine was and still is – that’s why he has to be managed!
Gaynor – I don’t know your story. Returning the love how? The give and take of love should have been escalating and ongoing. What was it that freaked him out?
“In my case, I saw him 4 days out of the week and when we didn’t see one another we were on the phone 4-5 hours per day. Honestly, I don’t know what else I should have been looking for?????”
A ring on your finger, a minister in front of you and him by your side. Unless your goal is more heartache, pain, being used and lied to, until then, keep your legs crossed!
Lisa,
Since you directed your 8 paragraph comment to me it appears that you are suggesting that I slept with these casual dates. Not only is that a bit offensive it is completely wrong!
My comment clearly was an observation that I now hear things differently now that I am aware of emotional unavailability on the part of men and myself in dating relationships.
You are very focused on the sex part of these relationships when in reality for most of us here that was probably a very small part of the overall relationship with these men.
Rachel,
Sorry for the confusion – only the first paragraph was directed at you and your comment. The rest is for all.
In the beginning – while casual dating – men should be ’emotionally’ unavailable – as well should YOU! Until you determine the man is worth your time – decent, meets your criteria, unmarried, no girlfriend, etc – keep your heart closed! Men are smart – they’re evaluating you to determine what you’re worth – no sex (not attractive enough for anything), easy sex (not attractive enough for a relationship, but I’d do her AND she’s so desperate she’ll give it up), possible relationship (There’s something about this girl!).
When you’re on a date with a man and he’s talking about other women, not making firm plans that is a clue he is not interested in you. He may take the easy sex if you’re desperate enough to hang on after he’s basically told you ‘No deal.’ Instead, take the hint and move on. Don’t label him as ’emotionally unavailable.’
The sex may have been a small part for YOU – but for the MEN it was everything. If you are involved with someone who apparently wants no commitment and runs when you show him ‘love,’ ALL he is after is SEX!
Sorry Lisa but I disagree with your generalizations that sex is everything for men and that is all they are after. You are equating sex with power, and saying that for women to withhold sex in the relationship, that is what is ultimately going to give them power in relationships. It is not the answer to everyone’s problems here with men. I don’t know what kind of men you have been dealing with, so maybe it has held true for you. But I think for alot of us, as Rachel said, it was a small part of the relationship.
I am glad you hold the “power” in your relationship now, and your guy has to be “managed”. Sounds real healthy.
You give away your power when you give up the sex without a commitment. Had we not slept with men who were not devoted to us, this website would not exist. When a man dumps you because you won’t sleep with him – YOU WIN! When a man dumps you after he sleeps with you – YOU LOSE!
With the former, you keep your self-respect, you don’t allow yourself to be used, you know what you’re worth – and it’s not a one night stand, a dead end ‘relationship’ with a man who doesn’t think you’re good enough for him to marry but you’re okay to sleep with. So is any prostitute.
Your body is yours – your love is yours – quit giving them to losers who don’t deserve it or you. Make men PROVE they deserve you. Men do not respect women who are easy. Almost every relationship detailed here involves the men NOT respecting the women. And honestly, why should they? We don’t respect ourselves when we allow men to treat us like dirt! We don’t respect ourselves when we have sex with men who don’t adore us!
Men and women are different. Boys do not dream of getting married – girls do! Boys are thinking how many women they can get into bed! It is biology! We can either fight it and be miserable or learn the game and win.
Men are after sex. Women are after a relationship. The longer you ‘hold him at bay’ the more time he takes to get to know you – to figure out how to get you into bed. It is while trying to figure you out, that he falls in love (or decides you’re not worth it – not every man is going to fall in love with you!). Liking someone enough to date and sleep with them vs loving and wanting to spend the rest of your life with them are two different things.
If you want ‘forever’ keep your legs closed until you get it! It’s the easiest way. Otherwise you risk getting used and abused, and through the resulting bitterness and hurt – unfit for a relationship with ANY man. We ruin ourselves!
All men must be ‘managed.’ All relationships have to be ‘managed.’ Love is a game – it is supposed to be fun!
I take offense that I am being considered easy b/c I had sex with someone prior to having a ring on my finger.
It had been three years since I had slept with my previous boyfriend (knew him for a year before sleeping with him). Prior to that-sad to say-it had been 5 + years since I had been intimate b/c I needed it to be with someone I cared about.
Not everything is black and white, Lisa.
Love is not a game!!!!
Gaynor:
It is black and white. You slept with a man who was not devoted to you – otherwise you would still be together. Sleeping with a man who is not devoted to you – when that is what YOU want – means you’re easy.
If your only criteria was that it be a man YOU care about – with no worries how HE felt about YOU – then no, you’re not easy. You complied with your standards and are exactly where you want to be – involved and/or dumped by a man who was not in love and was not devoted to you.
If you want a man who is in love and devoted to you – then you need to make him prove his love and devotion to you before sleeping with him. And that usually means a ring.
Love is a game! And a fun one at that. It is supposed to be playful, teasing, tantalizing!
That is another BIG problem with the women here. Your relationships aren’t fun – what man wants to be involved with that???
Lisa,
Perhaps you didn’t read my earlier post. This man said he loved me and considered us to be in an exclusive relationship (he wanted the exclusivity) , if that cannot be interpreted as devotion then I guess I can never trust any man’s word again. This man gave me every indication through his actions and words that we were very serious relationship until he realized that he could not handle the responsibility of the relationship.
If I interpret your earlier comment “you slept with a man who was not devoted to you.” So you’re saying that all relationships that end are due to the fact that a man was never devoted to a woman. C’mon!!! Does this include couples that are together for years or that have been married and ended in divorce.
I do not know where this thinking that men must be “managed comes from?
Lastly, When we were together we always had a fantastic time-minus the end. I have never enjoyed someone’s company the way i did my ex’s. I think if you are familiar with this site you will see that that the majority of women will say the same.
Two possibilities. Either he was a liar and user – and it was up to you to ensure that he wasn’t lying – by getting a ring before you slept with him. And no, loving someone and wanting exclusivity is NOT devotion. When a man is DEVOTED he will WAIT! He will put a ring on your finger!
Or perhaps he just fell out of love? It doesn’t mean he is ’emotionally unavailable.’ The relationship just didn’t work out – you did something to turn him off or change his mind about you.
I will say I usually notice that men back off when women get ahead of them i.e. doing the chasing (calling, making plans) or WORSE – turning needy, clingy, flipping out. It is a dance. It is your job to (subtly) manuever the relationship where you want it to go. If it isn’t going to your plans, either change tactics or opt out.
If you want a successful marriage – don’t marry an ahole. Long courtships and waiting for the ring before sex usually get rid of them well before. They expose themselves and you can dump them or they leave on their own when they can’t use you. After marriage, never stop working on the relationship and YOU. Don’t let yourself go! Continue to show your husband the respect he deserves for marrying you – by remaining the loving, admiring, respectful woman he married. Women who don’t respect and admire their husbands – LOSE them to someone who does!
As I said, relationships (and men) must be managed. As women, it is our job to manage it. We are the ‘feeling’ partner. We are in charge of the emotions. Men aren’t! They are like untrained animals. Take your time! Make him prove himself – through his actions. When marriages fail, it is because the woman failed to manage it or she didn’t choose her man properly. He doesn’t do the choosing – YOU DO!
Lisa, your comments are hostile and offensive. Whether it is your intention to flame or this is just your style of jumping in on a thread, a number of personal things you have said are inappropriate. I have made the commenting policy and terms of use very clear and if you don’t want to respect the rules and be respectful of others whilst making your point, don’t comment.
Gaynor:
What happened at the end?
Sorry I dont belive all men are un-tamed animals, I know a great deal of men who dont need to be manged they, just do the right thing. Yes love is a game, in that you both have your natural roles, ie men do the pursuing and girls WE DO THE CHOOSING, but you know some men do just get it. They love you, unconditionally, taking the sex out of it.
Rules Girl:
The men who already ‘get it’ have been trained – by other women! Either their mother, a former girlfriend, wife…
NML – I am sorry if I’ve come off as hostile or offensive – I certainly don’t mean to. It just seems to me that what everyone here is going through can easily be prevented and/or fixed. I’m simply pointing out that there is no reason to be bitter and hurt. Take back your power! The easiest way to do that is NO sex without marriage. Take care of yourselves – respect yourselves – love yourselves. No one else will until you do!
Do not give your body, your love, your heart to men who don’t deserve it. Make them prove themselves before you do so. The easiest way to do that is wait until marriage.
Sometimes relationships don’t work out. I’ve fallen out of love before – it doesn’t mean I’m emotionally unavailable. I just became aware he wasn’t the right one for me so why continue the relationship? Some men, on the other hand, after realizing we aren’t the ‘right one’ for them, will continue to see us – for free sex! Cut them off.
A lot of the women here – by calling and initiating – are begging to be used. These men have already made their intentions clear. Men let us know they don’t want forever with us (either through actions/words). That is what dating is for – to weed those men out. When you’re dating a man and ‘interviewing’ him and he says ‘I’m not ready for marriage’ – BELIEVE HIM! If a man is married or has a girlfriend – he is not available for a relationship WITH YOU – don’t go out with him at all. If a man won’t put a ring on your finger, don’t sleep with him. You aren’t good enough to marry – he isn’t good enough to sleep with!
You can’t get used if you aren’t giving anything up! We are adults and our lives are our responsibility. Men aren’t the enemy. They just want different things from different women. Some women are for marriage – some women are for dating – some women are just for sex. If you aren’t the one they want forever with, don’t have hard feelings, just move on. Easier to do when you haven’t slept with them! 🙂
Lisa, I think the goal of this site is to help bring us to a place where we choose better men. The types of guys we have been dealing with are going to turn out to be douchebags/get scared off/back of from commitment whether we “withhold” sex from them or not. “Waiting for a ring” is no guarantee that a guy is capable of commitment either. Just ask the married woman whose husband cheats on her or demonstrates other harmful behaviors (workaholic, alcoholic, etc.)
We are ideally looking to be in a place where we choose guys who have their emotional selves more together, who aren’t animals and don’t need to be ‘managed’. To get there, we are learning to become emotionally healthy ourselves and better at spotting unhealthy relationship behavior.
Yes we are to take responsibility for ourselves and choices in men, and opt out when it appears the relationship is not right for us. But I think you are putting too much emphasis and responsibility on the woman for the behavior of the man. Emotional unavailability is real.
And your comment to Gaynor-
“Or perhaps he just fell out of love? It doesn’t mean he is ‘emotionally unavailable.’ The relationship just didn’t work out – you did something to turn him off or change his mind about you.”
– indicates to me that you haven’t totally familiarized yourself with purpose of this site and the stories of the readers here.
Carm,
Thank you for bringing that up, I wasn’t going to respond as it was a very hurtful and disrespectful comment.
I didn’t realize the the complete failure of a relationship rests on the woman’s shoulders. I learned something new today.
I wish it was a easy as wrapping it all up in a pretty little box to simplify matters. What Lisa does not understand about this type of man is that when he pursue us in the beginning so hot and heavy planning the future together, talking of marriage, talking of a partnership all the ingredients are there he is perfect. We fall in love with a feeling that we are in the perfect relationship for us and we are made to believe its all going to work out the way we want it to.
It’s when he blows cold that others do not understand. It’s when he blows cool which turns into so cold that he is about to loose you then he comes back all warm and perfect again and makes you feel crazy for thinking that he was blowing cold….. but rather he was just busy….or not feeling well….or blah blah blah. Listen Women we get it! It isn’t as simple as Lisa has made it sound with this type of man. This type of man will make your head spin because they pick women like us who before now, did not know the secret to being able to pick out an assclown from 50 yards away.
Gaynor: I did not mean it to be disrespectful. I’ve changed my mind about men and broken it off with them – usually because of something they said or did. Doesn’t necessarily mean there was anything ‘wrong’ with them – it just told me they weren’t for me. Also, unless you want a ‘feminine’ type of man, relationships are the woman’s domain! We must choose wisely. There are exceptions, but most men are completely manageable. If they aren’t giving you what you need, dump them and find someone who will. No demands, no arguments, no hard feelings – only the weak argue and demand. Will he find anyone better than you? If not, pity him. If so, work on yourself. Either way, there is no room for hard feelings. Disappointment, yes – bitterness, no. The strong expect – and leave when their expectations are not met. If a restaurant gives bad service, do you take it personally? No, you leave and don’t eat there again! Why waste your time on some bonehead too dumb to appreciate you?
Rachel: If a man ‘blows cool’ – blow back even cooler! If he’s busy – you should be busier! If a man disappears – when he reappears and you feel you deserve an explanation, ask him what’s up? With no anger or hurt feelings. If his ‘excuse’ is unacceptable, tell him so. Tell him you will have to think about whether you want to continue the relationship or not – or show him through your actions (i.e. it will be a long time before he gets the pleasure of your company again!). If he’s talking of marriage, a future together, all the ingredients are there – it means nothing until the ring is on your finger! Talk is talk – and men are very good at giving empty promises. They’ve been taught by women that all they have to do is say the right words and we’ll sleep with them.
DON’T DO IT! Once he realizes you’re different, he will either step up to the plate or leave.
Carm: Unfortunately, if you are waiting for a man to come along who has already been trained you may have to wait a looong time – most of them are taken! You need to train men how to treat you. Waiting for the ring won’t help if you have a determined jerk who during your two year courtship is somehow able to conceal his cheating and alcoholism – if such a man exists for I’ve never known one who didn’t allow his true colors to show. That is what courtship and engagement periods are for – to make sure you have found a good guy who deserves you! Women I have known who have been cheated on definitely knew BEFORE the wedding – he cheated during the courtship phase. If a man was devoted to you and after years of marriage cheats – you must look at your relationship. He needs something you aren’t giving him – or he wouldn’t risk losing you by cheating – for he should know that if he cheats that is what will happen – he will LOSE you.
I had a boyfriend who cheated on me. I broke up with him. I didn’t even tell him WHY (he didn’t know I knew). Just told him I wasn’t interested anymore. He called six months later to see if I had changed my mind. Nope! Two years later, he called again. Still Nope! No bitterness. Why should I be bitter. He paid – big time. He lost me.
The fact remains – if you don’t sleep with men until engagement/marriage – the majority of users won’t stick around – it’s too much trouble – or they will reveal who they are – so you can dump them and find someone better. In the meanwhile, you haven’t slept with them and BONDED with them – so it is much easier to get over and move on to the man who truly deserves you.
Lisa,
Actually I did get out quickly b/c I could not accept the way I was being treated. I think we must be careful when we put everyone into a single category, it easier for some than for others, that is why this site is a fantastic tool.
I am in disagreement with ‘male management.’ I can use my father-parents married 60 years-and other married men I am close to , and I can honestly say that the women they are married to do not manage them. These men are responsible, respectful, committed and loving individuals who do not need a woman to manage their behavior, it is not necessary because they are normal well-adjusted men. Do you feel as if you need to control and manipulate the relationship with your husband?
In addition, I have a huge problem with your thinking that if a man strays it’s the woman’s fault. Are we in the 21st century here???? Where does the man’s responsibility come in??? When your boyfriend cheated on you-guess you didn’t have the ring-was it your fault????
How about talking things out or therapy, instead of sleeping with another partner?
Lisa, you have put a lot of emphasis on getting “the ring”, as if that were the be all and end all of every encounter women have with men.
Why can’t we just try to enjoy healthy and fulfilling relationships with a man, without desperately plotting for “the ring?”
Marriage is the LAST thing on my mind right now-I would like some love and companionship with a guy, but I won’t be looking at every man who approaches me to see whether he is “husband material.”
I agree……I’m not in a relationship in expectation for “the ring”
But I do need to be in a relationship that progresses and develops in a healthy level. I was with my EUM for a year and when we first got together he emphasized that he was looking for a serious relationship now and not just a casual fling (he’s 35 yrs old). Me being 29 (well 30 in a month) fell for his emmy winning act and put myself out there with little emotional limitation, After 8 months into the relationship I just randomly brought up a discussion about the progression of our relationship….at that point he totally shut off from me and told me his feelings for me had changed, Which was a bit bewildering becasue just a month ago he had told me he loved me. So after 8 months we broke up. 2 weeks after breaking up he told me he thought about how important I was to him and how he didn’t want to make the mistak of losing me; so we got back together. 2 months after getting back together it was still an awkward feeling that there was still this unpenetratable wall between him and I; like he was afraid for us to get closer. So like the women who “talked too much” I brought up the issue of how the relationship was progressing again. He then bluntly said he is not ready for a serious relationship! I was like what the hell!? Then I asked him why he wanted to get back together when we first broke up. His answer to me was “it was so long ago I don’t remember.” At that point I knew if I stayed with him longer I would start losing respect for myself…so I broke it off with him on 1/1/09. The funny thing was when I was breaking up with him, he kept making comments as if he was doing me a favor by allowing me to leave this relationship. What an assclown. But in all honesty I can only blame myself. There were so many red flags but I chose to ignore all of them because I thought real relationships takes sacrificing and compromising so I was willing to accomodate his needs; unfortunately it does take 2 to tangle and he was evidently too selfish to sacrifice anything to be with me in return; the relationship always revolved around his needs, and if it didn;t he pointed fingers at me accusing me of being selfish. I miss him of course but I am glad I toughed it out and broke up with him. Seriously my courage stemmed from this website and I owe it all to you guys! =) Lets make 2009 right! However I do wonder often if he will contact me…….ahh who cares!
Gaynor: Yes, there are men who were raised correctly by their mothers. Unfortunately, as you know, they are already taken! There are men who are so smitten with their wives they automatically love and treat them like princesses until the day they die! And the princesses do no work whatsoever! Very rare indeed. A romantic relationship is not like a friendship with your best friend. The romance and attraction must be carefully nutured – so that it does not wither and die through familiarity and boredom. You do that by managing your man! Before marriage, men must also be managed – only because they have been trained so badly by women who jump into bed with them. It is up to the women to manage the relationship – we are the nurturers, the homemakers… When my boyfriend cheated on me, I don’t really consider it anyone’s ‘fault,’ though he should have broken up with me beforehand. But I took care of that, when I broke up with HIM. I am grateful he showed me who he was! If a husband cheats, it is up to the wife to decide what happened – Is it something she did or didn’t do? Did she allow the marriage to deteriorate? Was her husband looking for validation from another woman – because he wasn’t getting it from her? If not, if he’s a cheater who pulled the wool over her eyes, then she needs to leave him – something she would have done before they were married, had she known. Again, I find that unlikely – men show their colors beforehand. The woman usually thinks she can change him after they get married – or worse – rushes into marriage before she has sufficiently evaluated the man. If it was simply a ‘mistake’ on the part of the man – he is madly in love with her and still cheated (also rare) then it is up to the individual woman how she wants to handle it/what exactly she expects HIM to do to make up for what he did.
Blackgnat: The ring isn’t the be all end all. A relationship with a man who is devoted to you is. A ring symbolizes that. Waiting for a ring before sleeping with a man also weeds out the users. And there is no plotting – he wants sex, you want a commitment/devoted man. Fair trade. He is the one who has to do the ‘plotting.’ Not you! He proves himself to you. HE wins YOU. You sit back and receive. Women plotting only comes through desperation – and that usually shows up when you’ve already slept with him and he isn’t devoted to you. Once desperation sets in, it’s over.
Poshpal: Supposedly this man wanted a serious relationship? A serious relationship IS marriage. If a man is serious, he will marry you. Then you don’t have to ask a man you’ve already slept with where the relationship is going (a very weak position). Proper management entails that by the time you sleep with him you already know – you’re there!
@ Lisa,
If I may – you said, “can easily be prevented and/or fixed”.
This comes across as trivializing what is certainly not easily prevented or fixed.
Selecting a mate-prospect, adjusting to them and bonding, assuring that he really is a reasonable mate-prospect, and creating a life-long relationship is *not* the same thing as planning a wedding. Too many people assume that it is the same thing.
I haven’t seen any easy answers.
Sex is often the the most visible problem area. Deceit, disrespect, inability to bond emotionally – these can be devastating, and often masquerade as smooth pickup lines and even devoted partners, for a while.
Much of your advice works for your first love. Only. Once we acquire a bit of baggage, some unhappy experiences, we need a more comprehensive approach. “Just Say No” never has worked. Not even Bonnie Hunt’s advice to Minnie Driver, in “Return to Me”, “Whatever you do, don’t shave your legs. That way you won’t let it go too far. It worked for me, until .. whenever.” is foolproof.
I actually agree with much of what you say. A comedian claimed that works at the Ford plant have to work for 90 days probation before they get benefits. As a father of daughters, he wonders why women don’t make dates serve a 90 day probation before giving out “benefits”.
Marriage is a powerful force for change in lives. The magic raised in the ceremony, the public vows – these transform individuals into members of the married community. But a marriage will *not* heal a dysfunctional relationship – it solidifies it, multiplies the cost.
Not everyone is looking for a life mate. Some are enjoying sex adventures. And no one wants to get hurt.
@ PoshPal,
Good call!
Lisa,
I had to pipe in here. While I agree with some of the things you say, I take exception to your perception that you “have to have a ring” and be looking for marriage which you are espousing here, isn’t that what you said?
For me personally, I could care less about a ring, I have plenty of jewelry, including diamonds and don’t need anymore. I only have so many fingers I could wear them on anyway and it certainly would not be a token of someone’s love for me or entry for sex if I were in a committed relationship.
At this point in my life, 53, marriage is the furthest thing from my mind, a solid, healthy, life partner is and if marrriage comes along with it, so be it. Not everyone on this site is 20 – 40. This site is not only here to help with spotting emotionally unavailable men, red flags upfront (and there are plenty of them) but to help many women who have issues much deeper than the apparent, keeping your legs together, get a ring and get married. One more thing, I think trying to manage a man is manipulation. Allso, not everyone is a homemaker and nurturer. For me for example, I have never been a homemaker, I have been a successful career woman, I manage people at work not in the home.
I think that your clumping everyone into your category (or one category) and your perception (which I am getting from your posts) is quite frankly, just not fair….Gail
P.S.. I am confused anyway, I thought NML”s post topic was about “Boundaries”, isn’t this conversation off topic and better discussed under the tab, Sex or Marriage?….Gail
Lisa,
About the “manage a man” thing, I think part of that is cultural heritage. In some cultures men are expected to rule the home absolutely – it is a significant symbol of manhood. In other cultures women are expected to rule, and men are assumed to chase anyone without a dangle-down and some that do, unless the wife keeps him on a short leash.
Today, though, in the US, mostly it is a personal history thing. Significant role models plant the image of men as chasers and women as being responsible for preventing cheating. Some people never move beyond that perspective to learn about respect and integrity in their lives, and choosing intimate companions that respect and trust them.
When you see all men as cheaters – I have to wonder why you are hanging out where the cheaters hang out. Why you don’t see that there are other kinds of people in the community, that don’t accept that kind of behavior. Why you would consider dating “another one just like the other one.”
Managing your partner is like making your partner change. It doesn’t work – men don’t change (and shoes don’t stretch). You cannot respect yourself for picking a partner like that. You cannot take charge of your partner’s life and respect them, too. It is rude, and often abusive to try to manage or change your partner. Parent impose discipline on their kids, train and teach them. You don’t have the responsibility or authority to pull that on any adult, especially your partner.
@ Gail,
I see people deciding whether they want a sex adventure, a life-mate, or something in between. But most times you want the sex adventure to continue. And you want the adventure to be there, too, with the life-mate. And I think the most likely partner for an “in between” relationship should look a lot like a life-mate partner, character-wise.
Peace!
Aside for NML’s ALWAYS amazing articles, I have to say Brad K, your comments are always amazingly insightful from the perspective of both genders ! Thank you!!! =)) This site is such a breath of optimism!
I also think that Lisa is doing a disservice to men when she sees them as only wanting sex. I’m sure there are guys who want more than that from a woman.
I can’t think of anything more frustrating than NOT having sex with a guy because one is holding out for marriage, then discover that there are problems in the marriage bed. There are plenty of websites and forums on the Internet to support the idea that compatibility in the bedroom is very important and that everyone has their own levels of satisfaction.
MUCH better to find this aspect out beforehand than to wait, be legally bound to a man and then discover that you are sexually incompatible.
Women can enjoy sex as much as and more than men do. To see it as women only holding out for a commitment is to minimise the impact that healthy sex can have on both partners. Aren’t there TWO people in this?
Women can love and want sex and men can want a commitment, too. It’ shouldn’t be a case of gender stereotyping
Just my opinion….and Lisa, if I have misinterpreted your words, feel free to correct me.
blackgnat,
First, I consider marriage one form of mating – taking a mate, building a life and home together. There are formal and informal ways to mate. At least, from my point of view.
The biggest (but not overwhelming) problem I have with early-relationship sex is what I think of as the ‘visitor’ issue. Mates have the comfort and knowledge that each considers their shared bed, “theirs”. Each is *home*. This aspect of the relationship is visceral, not up for debate, not the result of a verbal discussion or agreement. Each is (or should be!) focused on their partner and themselves.
Before that moment in the relationship, sharing sheets is by invitation. Each is aware that this could be their last time together, that they have to avoid mistakes, that they have to “earn” any additional invitations – or at least avoid blowing their chances for a return visit. Neither feels they have invested enough (time, energy) to compel them to extend themselves much beyond a casual effort.
Excitement has to have an element of fear. Fear of getting hurt, fear of breaking something, fear of losing something. (Orgasm has been called “a little death”, but I am not suggesting that particular excitement be avoided. 😉 The visiting status adds an excitement that won’t be there when you tuck yourself in with the last man you ever take to bed. Visitors are also inhibited about sharing dreams, fears, secrets, longings – this is a *social* call, not an event in the life of a loving family.
The other niggling little issue I have with early-relationship sex, is that it can distract you. Like the salesman implying you already agreed to buy this car (when you didn’t), sleeping together too soon puts you in an “I already accepted him as a partner” frame of mind – when there may still be questions and issues you need to discover of confront. You may ignore red flags and warning signs because “I already picked him, I guess I probably need to just live with it.”
All right, there is one other concern. Women and men have been mating for ages. And there was generally enough sex to make the babies that made us. As long as each is “intact”, and the mating is “consummated”, the rest should be much like other boundary/needs issues – you should be able to work it out.
Surprises like finding your partner is a sex maniac might (but shouldn’t) happen, there should have been signs in their conversation, in their habits – the places they go, the way they dress, how they decorate their home – their connections to friends and family. Someone that won’t respond at all in bed likely has issues relating to others, strange ties to family and friends.
The time from meeting to first intimate encounter isn’t just a matter of clocking off days, or dates (is three enough, six too many? No, that was prunes, for a laxative commercial. Use Metamucil.) – you have to be *busy*. Living. Adjusting to this new person, learning to hear what they say, teaching them to hear what you say, confirming their character. Noticing and confronting any concerns, issues, questions that crop up. But mostly just enjoying time together (face to face, texting and emails are a different story of unavailability) and learning.
You need to know that he brings more to the relationship than just a desire for sex (or worse, with a desire for sex with anyone).
But these are just small concerns.
Hmmm, I am sure seeing Lisa’s points here, tho I wouldn’t want anyone that I had to manage.
I do think that if I have sex with a man and the sex is good and we are getting along…I am going to fall in love with him. That is when I will ignore the red flags and go into the Justifying Zone. We had sex the first time and then I didn’t hear from him for four days? When we had been emailing every day? Oh, it was because he was out of town for work that week, Okay. But why didn’t he tell me that before he left my bed? A huge red flag of unavailability, but I didn’t see it for what it was because I was dreaming ahead to the next sexual encounter.
I must say I don’t think that sexual incompatibility is going to be a wedding night surprise, if the two of you are as wildly sexually attracted to each other as you should be to want to get married. If the attraction is there, you might have some sloppy, less-than perfect sex in the beginning, which is very normal, then you just work those thngs out.
Like many of y’all, I’m not as fixated on “the ring” and consider myself marriage-neutral. But whatever the case, I would not continue a relationship with anyone who was marriage-negative.
Next time, I think I am going to wait awhile before having sex. Like I told one friend, if I have sex with somebody, my ovaries and my heart form a voting block against my brain. Next time, I am going to let my brain have a say in the decision!
I like Brad’s probation before benefits policy!
But we are way off-topic here, is there a better thread for this discussion?
Brad: From the posts I have read, the women are here because they have been used. The men lied, cheated, were married/with someone else… I believe all could **easily** have been prevented had they not had sex until marriage. Men who want to use women for sex will not stick around if they’re aren’t getting it! Chastity works for first love, tenth love – it’s called self-control, not selling yourself short, making a man prove himself to you BEFORE you expose yourself to the ultimate hurt – giving your love and your body to a man who has no desire for a relationship with YOU. If sex adventures are what the women here are looking for, I very much doubt they would be at this site! From what I see, the women here are upset because they’ve been used.
Gail: A ring is symbolic of what I am trying to get across. If you don’t want *marriage* just a committed relationship, that is fine – but you have to ensure that is what the man wants with YOU so you don’t get used; a ring is the easiest way to do that. A year-long dating period BEFORE you sleep with him (whether marriage is the ultimate goal or not) would also help to weed out the users and liars. During that year, they will expose themselves. I note that many women’s expectations for the relationship change AFTER the sex and they get whiny, bitchy, demanding, clingy, needy. Making sure expectations are met BEFORE sex will prevent that as well. Relationships, men, children, home – all must be managed, just as any business (I used to run a company with $10 million in yearly revenue). The techniques for each are different. It is not manipulation; it is using your feminine skills to guide and nurture your relationship and your man to your ultimate goal – a lifelong, loving partnership filled with passion and excitement (where there are some nights he can’t wait to get home to rip your clothes off – even though you’ve been together for 10 years!) as opposed to the masculine skills you use while at work. Granted, everyone is different, but I think, if something isn’t working, it might be worthwhile to try a different tactic?
Gail (again!): There is no bigger nor important boundary than when and under what circumstances you will allow a man to have ACCESS to your body, heart and soul.
Brad (again!): Of course men don’t change! That is what the long courtship is for, to determine his true character and whether you can live and work with it! Men and women are different – men ARE chasers! They love the chase! It is biology and has held through the ages. If a man won’t chase you, he isn’t interested! He’ll take the easy sex if you throw it at him. Giving him early access to your body and heart short circuits his ‘falling in love’ process (and sets you up as an easy mark for the users and liars). Make sure you’re the dream girl before you sleep with him if you don’t want to get dumped after you’ve slept with him. That seems to be the biggest problem, women who have slept with a man and then are devastated when the relationship does not turn out as they want. Holding off on the sex will help prevent that. It’s not worth the hurt and bitterness I see here to do anything less. Men and relationships are managed (or should be!) all the time. When a woman excuses herself behind a closed door to take care of beauty routines (so she won’t turn her man off) – that is managing a relationship! When a woman takes the time to assess her man and be encouraging and grateful for what he does that pleases her (instead of focusing on what she’s not happy with) – that is managing a relationship! Relationships that aren’t managed FALL APART!
Blackgnat: Most, if not all, men want a SERIOUS relationship. The question is – does the man want a SERIOUS relationship with YOU. Most men will take the EASY sex until their dream girl comes along or until the ‘good for now’ woman in question makes the sex difficult (by demanding more from the ‘relationship’). That is what I see here, the men in question like the women – for EASY sex! The men in question ARE emotionally available – just NOT to the woman who is offering EASY sex – they aren’t the DREAM GIRL. If easy sex is what the women wanted – they wouldn’t be HERE complaining! Holding off on sex until you have the ring (or whatever else is your criteria for a SERIOUS relationship) will prevent that. If you want to sexually test drive a man (perfectly understandable!) before you marry/commit/etc. – then realize you could be the ‘good for now’ woman if you aren’t careful WHERE you are in the relationship when you decide to do so.
Caps are for emphasis only! 🙂
Lisa,
But what about relationships where the problem isn’t sex, but self esteem or inexperience with healthy relationships? Someone that grew up with parents that displayed anger issues or massive disrespect, so their understanding of “how to act” or “how a mate should behave” is skewed? Someone that picks a guy “just like Daddy” or a teacher or uncle or friend that might be admired, but was a very bad model of behavior?
Someone with baggage to overcome.
Early or promiscuous sex is often just a symptom. The baggage that filters out who we consider, when we consider a partner, has to be “healthy” for us to consider a healthy partner. Waiting for sex will not change the ones we “see” as potential. When the only people that make sense to us, won’t wait or have time for us without sex, when we are confused and don’t know what else we should be considering – sex, cohabiting, tolerating bad behavior, letting ourselves be isolated from friends, accepting his/her assertion that we are stupid or ignorant or worthless. Often the early sex is the least of the problem.
Oops.
My thoughts just did a hiccup. The big issue is .. boundaries. Am I getting back to the topic?
What I hear you say, is that a single boundary is sufficient – hold off sex until marriage/mating happens. Reserve sex for the marriage bed.
I don’t think that is sufficient. I think respect is a necessary boundary. Not the “he didn’t call 24 hours after we slept together so he doesn’t respect me” kind. The “you are worthless” kind. The “I don’t care what you think” kind. The “if you love me you’ll sleep with me” kind.
I think honesty is a necessary boundary. Not the “yes, I did fart. Sorry.” kind, the “I was working late (not sleeping around)” kind. The spent the rent money at a titty bar kind. The “she fell down the stairs, officer” kind.
I think a healthy sense of self worth is a necessary boundary. Not the “I deserve the lace teddy” kind. The “No, you aren’t going to visit your worthless friends” kind. The “No, you can’t bring anyone to my house.” kind. The “Get your butt in here.” kind. The kind where you feel he is supposed to be obeyed, kept calm, where you don’t want to risk making him angry.
Where you talk about waiting for a ring, I am concerned about having too much baggage to ever consider someone that would be a worthy mate. That there would be too much baggage to ever *be* a worthy mate. Waiting won’t help with baggage that you aren’t aware of.
Lisa…again this thread is off topic which is “Why won’t he call me” and Lisa, I don’t think this issue wraps itself up in a nice little box and fixes everything, but better lends itself to being the bow on top of the box that the present is placed in. How about we move this discussion over to “The Justifying Zone: when a woman needs to justify her emotional or sexual investment” where this conversation would be more appropriate and on topic…..Gail
Brad…hope to see you there!
I feel compelled to interject again as I feel that this could run and run and it’s kinda off topic…I see you got there ahead of me Gail! Thank you!
Lisa, I actually see *some* validity to what you are saying although as I said before, the way you deliver the message leaves much to be desired and your point should never have been made at the expense of disrespecting people on this thread. But..whilst I agree that sex can certainly overplay it’s part in relationships that shouldn’t be pursued, yours is a very black and white, blame women, men are incompetent like dogs to be trained up and managed, and quite frankly, that’s absolutely appalling and one of the core reasons why women throw themselves at bad relationships and think it is their sole responsibility to fix it – because people like you reinforce this negative messaging.
Now let me make clear – I believe that sex should take a back seat until you have gotten to know the person and understand what you want or expect from them because it’s too late to start wondering if you’re in a relationship after you’ve had a shag.
Sex clouds judgment which is how women end up in The Justifying Zone because after they sleep with a guy, they find out that it’s potentially not viable to pursue things with the guy but feel that they need to validate their original reasons for sleeping with him. Sex more often than not creates emotional investment that sends people down a slippery slope.
A ring really does not equal commitment. Commitment equals commitment and there is many a couple with wedding rings on who are actually not committed to the relationship, or one party isn’t.
It is the very idea of focusing on the ring rather than the substance of the relationship that causes problems – more desperate for a metallic symbol of commitment than the actual commitment and the quality of it.
But ultimately, either get on topic and contribute to the discussion on this thread, or move to a different post, such as the one that Gail has suggested which is 1000% more appropriate for your comments
Phew! what a ding dong.
Hahahahah no kidding.
Thank you NML for the comment from the 21st century.
Hi Everyone,
Okay so I need a bit of reassurance. Four weeks of no contact – he called the first week – hang ups with no messages. Now I’m wishing he would call. Its the weirdest thing – I know its not a good thing to keep in touch with him and that what we had was not a healthy relationship; it was always he who set the pace and tone – except of course in the initial stages until he hooked me. I think I’m making him into more than he was as he was the first person I slept with since being assaulted and I’ve dated other men and never let anyone in and of all people I let him in and I’m devastated that he doesn’t want me in the same way. How could I have been so blind? He’s become my safety net – having someone around. I’m so confused. I won’t call him – but my emotions are all over the place and I long to hear his voice.
Finallystrong,
At 4 weeks, you’re doing pretty good. I think what you’re feeling are withdrawals. It’s hard but the longer you’re NC the easier it gets. There’s really nothing you can do but try and be still when panic sets in.
Finallystrong- of course you feel awful, its natural. Build yourself up, remeber all the crap he gave you, and rember never to never let it happen again. That determination will get you through this. In the mean time read some great books on the subject and start doing some work on youreself. Any bloke who had anything about would 1 not have got involved with someone who had been attacked, if he felt you was not ready, in truth I dont belive you are 2 the fact that he let you belive in him, to get in a word sex,and his own ego massage is truly dispicable. Why are you not even thinking of that. This man is truly repulsive.
I’m torn between whether he is a complete jerk or not. He was the one that had me go for counselling and he stuck by me and was very patient with me – so I don’t think it was just the sex. Over the course of our relationship I was the friend, girlfriend, other woman twice. I’ve read the other posts on here and can’t help but wonder why them and not me. I know I have a long way to go with the counselling, but I can’t help but keep thinking it was because of my issues with intimacy and letting someone in. I just don’t understand why he hung around until I was truly ready to let him in and then he bailed. I know that I’m overanalyzing.
Finally,
Could you please give a synopsis of your relationship with him?
Here’s the brief summary.
I had not been in a relationship for over 11 years – following an incident of sexual assault that I told no one about. I met R at the gym and we became friends; he kept asking me out and finally I agreed. He tried to sweep me off my feet, but I kept my distance. After a few months I told him what had happened to me and he encouraged me to get counselling – after dating for 6 months we slept together and I was feeling stronger and comfortable to let him in. He then informed me that he was in the process of breaking up with his girlfriend!!!! I was devastated, he begged and pleaded for me to understand, he was just trying to help her out, it had been over for a long time. I forgave him. It was great for the next month and I was finally truly ready to have a real relationship and he backed away. Suddenly we went from spending every day of the week together to maybe seeing each other once or twice a week, but it wasn’t at all about sex. I was still getting comfortable with my sexuality. I then find out he’s on a dating site – break up with him and he reels me in again – we are friends – sort of. He says he’s dating a few people and doesn’t want to get serious. Try as I might I just couldn’t get rid of him. He was a great support as I dealt with my issues and family and work things. I start getting attached again and want more and find out that one of the women he has been dating is pregnant and he is going to move in with her. He tells me he’s confused and I stay friends with him – sort of. It develops again into a more serious relationship (I become the other woman – something I’m not at all proud of). I feel we are getting closer again and he tells me he’s confused. I find out through the grapevine he’s left the women he had the baby with and is now taken up with someone new. I confront him about this and he tells me that I’m the special one, but he just can’t give me what I want. I’m his best friend he tells me, but he’s told me nothing about this new relationship. He continues to call and check on me and I start to back away – I’m sick of the drama. I finally decide I need to make some space for a real relationship and tell him I can’t see him anymore. He calls a few times in the beginning, but no longer calls.
I do feel like I’ve lost a friend, I don’t know why I still want him. As I am writing this I’m thinking what a jerk, but I still want him.
FinallyStrong,
I understand wanting him after all he’s done. Do you think it’s your bruised ego that won’t let him go? I think that’s what’s happening to me. I also miss the person he use to be. I think that’s what you’re missing.
My therapists says that I have to realize that the person he first presented himself to be is not real. It’s the person he’s showing me he is now. Even Sociopaths are not all that bad.
Have you thought about how your life would be if you actually got him? Would you trust him?
Finally,
This man was and is not your friend. He seems to leave a path of destruction everywhere he goes!!! This man has no honor or integrity, he doesn’t seem to care what he’s does to anyone, there doesn’t seem to be any consequences in this guys life. Don’t waste another second thinking about this guy!
To answer your question: he is a complete jerk!!!!!!!!
Finally,
Sorry, one more thing.
After I read your post I was very upset. I think it is absolutely despicable what this man has done. First, I look at your situation with abuse. This man knows what you have been through-don’t care if he suggested counseling. Big deal-and doesn’t give a damn what additional damage he may doing. He keeps stringing you and numerous women along with no concerns for anyone but himself. Second, I feel for the poor kid that had to grow up with such a disgrace of a father . What an example he is. Honey, you’ve got to see what an a$$hole this guy is!
May I suggest you go back and reread the last part of Boundaries with the male input . Read it ten times, for that matter read it a billion times to see where this guy is coming from.
Thanks Gaynor for your frankness.
I did read the posts in the Boundaries section from the men. I am in agreement with them – how many times was I going to let this guy make me the other woman? How many times did I settle for a crumb. I’m actually just torn as to why he was the catalyst for me to seek out help – there was something in this man that made me feel safe. I am still in couselling for the assault and now dealing with letting go of him. I’m finding it hard to come to terms with how I could possibly let a man like this be so special to me. I think I was just clutching to someone and I was afraid that I’d close myself off again. I am starting to get angry – he did string me along when he knew how I felt about him and how hard I was trying to overcome my issues.
I heard today thru the grapevine that the new girlfriend has succeeded in getting him into counselling for his issues with relationships. I guess what the men said in the boundaries post is correct – for these men there will eventually be a woman who will make them want to resolve their issues and make themselves emotionally available.
Right now I’m taking it day by day and am hoping that soon I won’t be wishing to see him or hear his voice. This site is fantastic. Its a great help to hear the stories and see the strength of so many other woman who are overcoming. Stronger day by day!
FinallyStrong, the girlfriend got him to go to counseling? What a waste of time, he is doing this to make her shut up for now.
he will be “confused” again and go back to his old ways.
Stick with NC, he is a big headache.
Girls,
Life is to short to be worrying over needless things.
If you have a sickness, worry then.
If your child is harmed, worry then.
If a loved one is in the hospital, be patient and hope for recovery.
If a death occurs, well there is nothing you can do…. accept hope that that individual is now resting peacefully by the creators hand.
But to worry over a man (?) …….”who can be easily replaced”, I don’t think that should be a worry.
Destiny is going to happen rather we want it to or not. Live your life and try to be content 🙂
Hi Everyone. Due to a technical fault with the previous service which notifies you by email when I publish a new post, I have had to move to a new provider. The error means you will now need to sign up to the Feedblitz service if you want to start receiving emails again. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Thanks Natalie/NML
Hi there. My ex-EUM sent me an email today. It said nothing. Just “Hey A – you don’t talk to me anymore?” Todd (not his real name)
I did not respond an have deleted it. I really thought he would leave me alone and maybe even understood why I wasn’t in contact.
No such luck. It almost seems as if he’s trying to make me seem like the bad guy by cutting contact.
I know I can’t “win” with him and that contact will just cause me frustration and heartache. I am so glad I no longer work with him.
Anyway, I needed some strength so I found this post. I am sure the reason he reached out was that he needed an ego stroke.
No contact means no contact. No replies, no explanations, no nothing.
Ok – good night! Power to everyone!!
A
Well,
You maybe need to ask why he did not put any effort into reconnecting with you. I would think that you should not be satisfied with flippant emails like this. Until, he contacts you in a real way, either by actually calling you or showing up at your door, I would ignore this type of contact. It’s lazy and rude to you, I think. Hope all is well. ts.
Exactly. I’ve ignored it. If I asked him why he didn’t put any effort into it he would turn it around on me and say it’s because I cut contact with him and didn’t return his calls or previous emails. It’s not worth it. I’ve had the conversation with him endless times and he never recognizes or admits he has a hand in our dysfunctional relationship. Having the conversation would just make me miserable all over again and not lead to anything constructive or positive. Better to just leave it.
If he were to properly confront me on this, I would have the discussion. But he won’t. He’s a coward. Anyway – ’nuff said!
Thanks.
Ashley, I feel for you…perhaps we have the same ex-EUM…LOL…mine does exactly the same thing when he cowardly emails me after I’ve asked him not to contact me…so I understand what you are going through and YOU GO GIRL…you are strong and you are logical and you know he’ll only bring you down. I wasn’t as strong the last round (over the holidays), but I know now, I would be…they only want an ego stroke and to see that we still have feelings for him…so you are getting to him more by ignoring him…and I know that is not your goal…but it’s a added bonus so to speak…Ashley…you give me inspiration!!! HUGS!
You can do it too! We all deserve much, much better than the guys that led us to read this blog. Hopefully in another 30 days I’ll be even stronger. Good luck!
Well, he sent me another email, this time asking if I was mad at him. I did reply to his email and told him that I was not mad at him, but had realized that I cannot be friends with him. I told him that this was not about him but was about me moving on with my life. I asked him not to respond because we never see eye to eye on the issue and discussing it with him only brings me heartache.
I was a bit more wordy that saying those three sentences but that, in essence, is what I said.
While I understand I am doing no contact, I decided to clarify to him what I am doing and why. I spelled it out for him. If he doesn’t honor my request to stay away and initiates contact, I will just ignore him completely. And I will know that I said my piece and he has current information about why I am not responding to him. In fact, I will not even open his emails or texts if they come.
I was over (or so I thought I was) my EUM until I found out his father died. I wanted to give him my condolences.
…We ended up sleeping together. And now I realize I am back to where I started.
I don’t want to end the relationship/friendship and I know he is using me to get over his loss, but… this is hurting me. It hurting me worse than the first time we broke up.
What should I do?
Hey Donna P,
Well, I would say let him go. He is not giving you very much. Yes, the loss of people near us is hard. That does not mean he gets to have sex with you. Don’t be a mercy shag or f*** as we American’s would say. He has taken advantage of you in an emotional time, the worst kind of manipulator ever! Don’t be deluded by his using all this emotional stuff you are gong through to convince you to jump in the sack with him.
Wow, unless you have some long term situation with him, he is the worst, I must say. Please say to yourself you are better than him, if not, I wish you the best, but, you are on your own. Best, ts
Thank you very much for the reply.
Well, we’ve only slept together once. He was drunk, crying over the death of his father and I was, well, not as drunk, more so tipsy and lonely. I missed sex and…I missed him. We had lost contact for 6 months prior to this incident after he claimed he never loved me and only wanted a casual relationship. What’s even worse is after we slept together we talked. He told me about a woman he’s interested in and I felt my heart shatter into pieces. Why did I think he would come back to me and love me?
I was determined to move on. Considering this “sleep over” a one-night stand.
The following days after, he has been constantly contacting me, despite my offhandedness, nonchalant, and even cruel behavior. I am subtly trying to express that I do not want to have anything to do with him. I have been playing eye-for-an-eye, being distant like he had been during our relationship. Has he forgotten about how emotionally unavailable he claimed he was? Why does he want friendship with me! …Why am I finding myself, deep down inside, wanting to be with him again even though I know what kind of person he is?
Thanks again for the support.
Donna P, trust me you are not over him. There is a big difference between giving condolences and sleeping together. Providing support and comfort by offering condolences, etc is totally understandable although one of the things that you have to recognise is that contact is contact and whatever spin you put on it, the moment that you made contact with him, he registered your interest.
These men are not ordinary people – they don’t think ‘Oh how nice that Donna called…’ they think ‘Aha…she still wants me’
Whatever good intentions we have, women often use situations like yours as a subsconscious excuse for reconnecting.
You have said yourself – you don’t want to end the relationship/friendship – well that would place you in no mans land as you don’t have a relationship and you don’t have a friendship. The fact that you acknowledge that he is using you makes your desire to keep him in your life even more confusing. People treat you as they determine they want to treat you – you can’t just decide that you want him in a different guise when he is determined to behave in another way. You need to cut contact and stick to no contact and stop trying to extract a different personality and behavior from the guy and see him for what he is.
Donna –
I’m sorry you are going what you are going through. I’ve been there and it stinks. It sounds like that you still care about him and are attracted to him despite your knowing what he is really like. Maybe you are hoping he wold “change” in how he feels about you. It must have been painful to hear him talking about another woman he was interested in after you slept together. That would hurt me.
The two times I was physical (once involved intercourse, another did not) with my ex-EUM were followed by 2-3 of the most lonely months I’ve had in my life. I definitely was interested in “trying it out again” in hopes that he had changed or his feelings for me had changed. They didn’t and they never will.
However, judging by the fact that my ex-EUM still emails me to this day (the last was Friday) without my responding, indicates to me that he is always going to be happy trying to dart in and out of my life with no consideration to what it might do to my feelings.
I’m not sure why your ex EUM is in constant contact with you now, he could be a game player or like to mess with woman’s minds. Or he sees your curt responses as a challenge.
NML is right, contact is contact, best thing to do is just cut him out. I responded to my ex-EUM’s email yesterday and told him I can’t be friends with him anymore (although by the real definition we never were). I asked him not to respond.
Anyway – just sending that email has caused me some despair. It would have been better FOR ME, if I had just ignored it. I probably shouldn’t have cared about his feelings. What is done is done and moving on from this is much easier than if I had seen him or been physical with him, but it feels like a little set back all the same.
My recommendation would be to move on and stick with the no contact. It will be difficult at first but it gets easier. You will begin attracting new and more positive people in your life and after a while, it won’t be a struggle anymore and you will feel much more confident.
Good luck!
Donna,
This guy has been honest ,he only sees this as a casual relationship/booty call. I know it hurts but this man has nothing to offer you.
I think it is unforgivable that he would discuss another woman after you had sex (sleaze-bag), the man has no class or conscious. Yuck!! This reminds me of the last time I saw my ex-EUM. He had been telling me he wanted to make love and we moving towards a relationship, after we finished the deed, he told me he wasn’t certain of his feelings. Creep!!!! God, did I tell him off, I felt so used. Last time I saw him.
Thanks everyone. Thank you NML as well. I appreciate the feedback. A lot.
He has been posting these vague messages with song lyrics in them that refer to “making a mistake” and “wanting to start over” and “needing more time” and I can’t help but wonder if that is meant for me.
I asked him how were things with his girl of interest and he tells me he doesn’t think it would work out because it’s long distance. I also told him to get back with this other woman who is now single and he says he is no longer “into” that person. Is he telling me this to get my hopes up?
I couldn’t help but notice that he was very jealous when I said I was going out with someone on Valentine’s Day. He also has been making an effort in trying to regain a friendship with me (calling me more often then he ever did, making visits, etc).
…What is in his head?
Donna,
It doesn’t matter what’s in his head. This guys has told you and shown you he doesn’t want anything more than a sexual relationship. His actions say it all!!!
You’re reading into the “vague messages,” honey you deserve so much more than the crumbs he’s tossing you. If he wanted a relationship he would show you and tell you. Period!
Jealousy means absolutely nothing!!! He doesn’t want you to move on so that he may have the fallback girl available at his convenience, if you’re involved with another you’re not available.
I think you’re confusing your need for him in your life for a friendship-I did the same thing. I later realized that a friend does not continue to hurt, use and deceive those they care about.
Don’t settle for so little.
Wow…I didn’t think of it that way…. Wow.
My friend has been telling me to be his friend out of the sake of knowing what he’s doing with his pathetic life (and because she’s friends with him and if I stop talking to him, he’ll be crying to her for weeks), but yeah, I don’t I can be his friend.
This is hard. I mean. I stopped talking to him for months until this…I thought I was fine. I can’t believe I’ve been thinking I still had a chance.
Thanks again everyone.
This site is beyond awesome by the way! Kudos!
My friend is telling me that “he’s a guy and he’s not that smart” I should give him a chance. Are you kidding me?!
Donna, it’s always difficult to know a person’s full story because sometimes all the details don’t come out. However, I do believe that actions speak louder than words. He seems to be playing games. Maybe you should just ask him outright what his intentions are?
However, I have a feeling he’s just playing around. Asking him the question may give you the response you need.
My ex EUM responded to my email (even though I asked him not to). Because my email was on auto preview I saw what he said when it popped up – “this is crazy. stop all the drama. there was a reason I went out with you in the first place. i want to be friends.”
That was the answer I needed. He just completely disregarded what I had to say which is what he always did. I can’t believe I thought he might see my side of things through an email exchange. NML says that doing this is just my trying to control the outcome or make him see things my way and admit his shortcomings. I’m dreaming if I think he’ll do that.
So, I deleted his email and didn’t respond. Ok – he wants no more drama. He’s got it. He’s got no more anything.
I’m sure he’ll pop up here and there. Maybe even call. I won’t take the calls. It’s going to be hard. But – there is just no point.
Good luck with your ex-EUM. I hope you keep up the no contact!
Hi Ashley, you sound great! 🙂
Donna, I agree somewhat with the statement: he is a guy he is not that smart. But, he is “smart” enough to know that the “girl of interest” is long distance and the other woman he is not that “into” anymore. You know, he sounds actually dumb feeding you that BS.
Why? Would that not make you chase him harder?
I agree with Gaynor, he doesn’t want you to move on, what would he do if there would be suddenly no woman for HIM? Where is the Fall back girl??
You should also think about the comment you friend made about him,
be “friends” with him so you know what is going on in his life?
She is “friends” with him? Your well being should be more of an interest to her – she is your friend, right? – than this guy.
Donna, NML’ comment:These men are not ordinary people – they don’t think ‘Oh how nice that Donna called…’ they think ‘Aha…she still wants me’ this really sticks out.
I read her comment 3 times to remind myself! 🙂
Don’t let this man use you.
Be good to yourself and cut contact with him and you also may think about the friendship you have with your friend.
Ashley,
You know who this guys is, and that is one that does not respect your boundaries.
Stay strong!!!!
Donna,
For you own sanity you cannot be ‘friends’ with this guy, it just doesn’t work. He will continue to draw you in for the occasional hookup and ego stroke, that’s all that’s he’s seems capable of. Keep remembering what he told you about his feelings and only wanting a casual relationship, this will help you move on.
As I said before, friends do not treat one another in this manner, friends treat each other with love and respect. Ask yourself, if this were your sister or best girlfriend, how would you advise her??? You deserve the same for yourself.
Donna, I agree with Gaynor, you should not be “friends” with him and also take a closer look at your friend that is still “friends” with him.
These type of men don’t have “friends”, they have an audience for their BS, ego strokes and get laid once in a while. He is “smart” enough to to be jealous when you went out with somebody else, he is losing his Fall back Girl. Cut contact with him and move on, it is all BS. Read on this Website, NML has enough posts and advice to help you move on.
You know, these guys may not be smart enough – I agree with that, but are they not “smart” enough when it comes to what they want?
Please stop offering anything to this guy, I know it is awful that his parent died, but also believe his “pain” of loss is different than a normal man. Like NML said” ordinary peope.
He is not.
…Thank you.
After learning my lessons in love — the last guy I gave the boot did contact me out of the blue a month or so later. (My first instinct was “oh what did the last girl ditch him”) He said he just wanted to be friendly and asked how I was doing, etc… I told him that I did not want to be friends but then second guessed myself thinking I was being harsh!!! (I grew from then!) We chatted one night and the Assclown was “near my house”… and decided AGAINST WHAT I TOLD HIM NOT TO came over and knocked on my door at 2am… and I told him very clearly to back his ass up and go home… he tried to use the line on the phone “when he sees me in person he can look me in the eye and know he is telling the truth” —- HAHAHAHA Storys, Storys!! How redicious for me second guessing myself, live and learn…no more ASSCLOWNS…
After learning my lessons in love — the last guy I gave the boot did contact me out of the blue a month or so later. (My first instinct was “oh what did the last girl ditch him”) He said he just wanted to be friendly and asked how I was doing, etc… I told him that I did not want to be friends but then second guessed myself thinking I was being harsh!!! (I grew from then!) We chatted one night and the Assclown was “near my house”… and decided AGAINST WHAT I TOLD HIM NOT TO came over and knocked on my door at 2am… and I told him very clearly to back his ass up and go home through the door without seeing him… he tried to use the line on the phone “when he sees me in person he can look me in the eye and know he is telling the truth” —- HAHAHAHA Storys, Storys!! How redicious for me second guessing myself, live and learn…no more ASSCLOWNS…
Lisa is absolutely correct about everything she says. Re-read what she writes, and you will see understand fully what she means by “managed”: women have to know how to engender respect from their men; how they deal with (or “manage”) their men determines the respect they will get. And, BradK, whether the love is a first love or a last love, her words apply to ALL situations with ALL men (EUM or not, marriage-seeking women, commitment-seeking women, partner-seeking women, shag-seeking women, etc.). Men know, from the reputation of a woman and how she behaves, who they are dealing with.
BUT, at ANY time before marriage, if a woman “falls off the pedestal”–even once–e.g., by giving the APPEARANCE, not even the actual reality, that they are really hot for a guy, then it won’t matter anymore whether she gave it up easy or how quality/awesome/respected she is. She is no longer the “ideal”.
EUMs or not, men are just wayyyyy too picky nowadays. Women’s giving it up too easy is the MAIN reason why they have become this way. And guess who pays for this? ALL women, from the biggest sluts to the nicest girls.
So, will the EUM try to contact you? Sure! Why not! Why respect your wishes of NC? YOU gave it up EASY. He has NOTHING to lose by trying, especially when he knows the odds are in his favor of getting an easy shag! (If not from you, then there will be someone else.)
I am sure that there are EUMs who actually do marry their fallback girls, but, if there was a post on this, this website would no longer exist.
Used, I really wouldn’t stoke the fire again, especially after I made a point of saying to Lisa that a number of things that she wrote on my site were hostile and inappropriate and firmly outside the terms of use. Whilst I have let this comment come through, don’t continue to insult readers, especially as, if my memory serves me correctly, you are in no position to talk. You have been involved with one of these men and spent copious amount of airtime both mentally and on this site talking about him and what he did, yet you claim to be a virtuous woman, so you’re invalidating your point. Not only is focusing on the sex angle the cheap and easy route, but it doesn’t explain why these men can often be involved with women where there is no sex in the relationship…. And in light of how you have made numerous, very lengthy points about how women treat each other badly and how hurt you have been, again, it seems a touch ridiculous for you to take the superiority route as if you are above all this, when clearly you are not. And again, your last point about EUMs marrying Fallback Girls, is also invalid, as there are many married women who read this site who are Fallback Girls who are married to EUMs and commenting. Marriage doesn’t mean someone is committed or emotionally available.
I did not know that some women who post on this site are fallbacks who married EUMs.
As to me, I have not only been involved with an EUM, the society I come from is filled to the brim with them. It has come to be a NORMAL thing to be an EUM. This was not the case in the past (e.g., when people did not have sex before marriage). My disappointment and sadness is in women’s continued horrid behavior to each other to win men, even the EUMs.
Focusing on the sex angle is easy–true–but not so cheap, b/c sexual relations b/w women and men is new where I come from…just like in the world. The pill came out only in what, 1963? We are only merely one generation “post-pill”.
And how am I invalidating my point, or acting superior, when I am a respected and virtuous woman who (very likely) WAS one (of many!!) women used by an EUM so he could get back (and marry) another woman (a fallback) he had previously used, shagged, treated badly, cheated on, and abandoned? I have just given you an example of a SOCIETY of men who can VERY OFTEN be involved with women when there is NO sex in the relationship, where women get hurt…and the men aren’t doing most of the hurting.
So why get sex involved, and soon in a relationship, when, even when there is no sex, women can, very easily, get hurt, especially (and mostly!) by the women around them, who are competing (yes, sometimes with sex!) for not just good guys, but also jerky EUMs?
Men have it too easy. Sex is only a part of it. Withholding completely (as I did) or waiting a long while IS a good idea.
In the second paragraph, above, it should read, “sexual relations b/w women and men BEFORE MARRIAGE is new…”.
I think that Lisa and I are trying to help here. Sorry if we are not being too diplomatic.
Used, let me make clear – you are not being helpful, you’re flaming and being incredibly disrespectful. It’s nothing to do with diplomacy – I have already said that rambling on about sluts and archaic, outdated notions and assumptions at the expense of reader feelings was inappropriate so stop. Emotional unavailability has been around for centuries in various forms so please, again, stop making assumptions and read what you write.
Ashley, I know it has been a while since you posted about not responding to his emails.
I sure hope you realize, the NC rule is to not receive his emails. Just knowing that the email arrived causes harm – you see the From: address, maybe the subject – whether you read the email or even respond is nearly meaningless by this time. Instead, set your email filter to detect his email address – and mark the email as “already read” and move it to the trash folder. That way, you never know it arrived – and you don’t have the daily (or weekly) decision about “Do I read this one?”
Stumbling over his emails, his text messages and phone messages (if he leaves any) all amount to the same thing – they cause you to renew your thinking about him. They each come one step closer to wearing you down, to getting you to respond, maybe to “try again”. The No Contact rules are about keeping his messages and messes completely out of sight – and out of mind. Nothing less is going to work.
Luck!
Donna P.,
When we find the world to be a scary place, we may well seek refuge – any place that isn’t as scary. Which is the role this bozo seems to fill, “less scary bozo”. This seems like a very good reason to accept a hero wannabe – but *not* anything near the respect and integrity and sheer interest we need in a mate. Thank him for his time, thank him for his help – and move on.
The biggest problem with Bozo is that you and he have confused an emotional refuge, maybe a physical rescue, situation with something more. Yes, you likely do have a bond between you – shared experiences do that. But you owe to yourself and anyone that you respect, to seriously consider whether you trust and respect the character of anyone close to you, friend, mate, etc. You can’t be a person you love and respect – if you don’t protect yourself from disrespect and dishonesty. When you let someone abuse you or your trust, you are showing the world .. your low self esteem. The old adage about “birds of a feather” really is true.
We reinforce each other. The words we use daily, the attitudes we express, the value choices we make – we demonstrate our values to those around us, thus influencing them. And we are in turn influenced by the actions our friends and family perform, the words they use, and the choices they make. If we would be respectful, we must choose to spend our time with people we respect, and that respect us.
Suppose you decide, “I want an orange.” You go to the kitchen, there is one apple left (a bit bruised, maybe). You don’t grab the apple and say, “Oh, well! It is almost an orange!” (That would shoot down my story, sorry.) You don’t get angry at the apple, you don’t feel sad or upset that there isn’t an orange. You might add “Oranges” to the shopping list, but that is likely all.
Well, let’s say you thought, “I want a cuddle.” And you turned around and there is Bozo. (Again, you ruin my story if you say, “Well, he is almost worth having a shag with.” Please!) You don’t need to feel guilt, or remorse, or even ungrateful. You recognize he isn’t a mate prospect, and maybe write in your diary “Had a Bozo thought today.” And go on.
The truth is that losing someone that has held a place in your life always hurts. In one form or another we grieve. The various stages of grief – the denial, the loss, the anger, the acceptance – often repeat. If you aren’t familiar with grief, the denial and other normal steps may seem to encourage “just one more try”, when the reality is that you are just adjusting to being without that particular person. In the case of Bozo, you are getting used to the loss of an extra piece of baggage – stuff you have been carrying around, that you don’t need, and are now trying to walk away. Keep an eye on what you can accomplish without that particular baggage.
Enjoy!
Ok – I’ve set up a rule in my in box to block and delete any emails from the one email I know of. I don’t know his other email address (he’s at a new job) and I am unable to block phone numbers on my phone. At least I can screen calls and delete without reading other emails. And blocking one will stop at least 33% of attempted contact. If I am lucky – he won’t reach out. He hasn’t in over a week and that’s a good sign.
Well he called me yesterday and I ignored the call and he didn’t leave a message. It was upsetting. But I got through it and now I’m very happy I ignored the call. I went through feelings of “I’m being the bad guy, I’m being mean by ignoring him.” But, I remembered NML saying that these guys don’t think like we do. They aren’t hurt the way we get hurt. I remembered that he probably just doesn’t like that he’s not in control now and he’s trying to get my attention back. He doesn’t want me the way I wanted him. That used to be my fantasy when I would respond to his weak overtures. That he was finally coming around and wanted a relationship. I KNOW that is not the case.
I also chose to not go to a networking event two nights ago that I had a sneaking suspicion he would be attending. The call came the next day – go figure.
Then I feel bad because I really am keeping the door shut on something and someone that I knew and cared for, for many years. I know, I know, he’s a jerk and he didn’t deserve my caring. I can’t help what I feel in this situation though.
THEN I remember what a jerk he was. How he’d never call, would sleep with me and disappear, would turn any criticism about his poor behavior into a criticism about my expectations and how he’s been wounded by his ex wife, or busy “building his business” (from which he was sacked) and can’t give me more. Or he’d turn it into my being the bad guy.
I’d remember the se*ually explicit e-card he sent one of my best friends (a few months ago when he and I were “friends”), that he tried to “friend” at least two of my cute friends he’d never met on Facebook, about how I was there for him when he got fired, about how he quite excitedly engaged in s&xtext with me for a week, and ignored my requests to actually see him and spend time with him (or made up excuses about being busy and did not offer an alternative). About how when I’d call him he’d NEVER answer the phone and most often didn’t return the calls unless I called two or three times.
So I think about all of these things and – walking away and not answering the phone is no big deal. Blocking him on facebook so he can never see me is understandable.
Acting with insensitivity and without explanation was certainly was something he did with ease. Why should I care that I am doing it to him now?
I guess because I normally don’t act this way towards people. It’s not in my nature. But – he’ll never change, my feelings for him are always going to be unhealthy because of our past, so it just “is what it is and that is OVER”.
Ashley,
I think actually doing the No Contact thing is incredibly rude. It is rude to anyone. But then, this guy isn’t just anyone – you have a history with him. You have learned, to your sorrow, that normal, polite behavior is dangerous with him.
When we encounter someone we think might steal from us, might harm us, we learn to be careful, to alter how we normally interact with strangers. This guy isn’t a stranger – he is known to cost you money and time trying to build a relationship that cannot happen. His presence in your life *repels* others, including someone that might be worthwhile. His presence and repeated *harassment* keeps you from letting go of whatever let you accept this deceitful, manipulative skunk in sheep’s clothing.
And washing with tomato juice won’t get the smell off. (Tomato juice is supposed to help with a dog that gets sprayed.)
Take care.
Thanks Brad.
My boyfriend of 3.5 years broke up with me at the end of Jan, we had the most amazing relationship and never fought. The break up was so out the blue and I was and still am devestated. I am doing my head in everyday now wondering if he will contact me, and every now and then i give in and contact him, he always replies but is brief and does not look like he is missing me or regretting hs decision. Any advice on how i can give up the hope of him contacting me??
Fi,
Why did he end the relationship?
Gaynor,
He only said that he was confused and it wasnt feeling right for him anymore.. I then found a txt on his ph from another girl, he insisted nothing was happening and they were just friends who txt and spoke on the ph… He left later that week and it was the hardest thing i’ve ever been through. I have since been told by his friends that he doesnt see her or anyone else but that doesnt mean he’s not talking to her… He insists his feelings for me changed before he met her and that it had nothing to do with her, but i dont know??? I still hope and prey everyday that he’ll come back to me… How do i get past this?
Hi Fi. I am sorry to hear of what has happened and you must feel very hurt and rather confused. That said, the first flag I saw of trouble was that you’ve been together for 3.5 years and you never fought. It’s not that you need to be arguing all the time but it indicates that you guys weren’t communicating and that there may have been issues there, they just weren’t talked about. This is why it feels so out of the blue to you – you feel like you got no clues to what is up.
That aside, the key thing you need to realise is yes you will hurt, yes this is awful, but for whatever reason, your ex has opted out. He has decided that he does not want to be with you or in the relationship and that has to be your guiding light because whatever you have had between you, he certainly has not valued it enough to continue the relationship. Whatever his reasons, he has decided that he does not want to try and this is a glaring signal for you that instead of focusing on him and praying that he will come back, that you actually need to focus on you, feel the pain, grieve and move forward. He has already left the building, so you’re clinging to nothing and afraid of moving on.
Even after all this time, all he can say is that he is confused and it doesn’t feel right and hey, you can’t force him to say much more and maybe that’s just how it is. That makes it horrible to comprehend because we tend to want a deeper explanation but not all relationships are built to last and they don’t all end for exact and tangible reasons. You can’t make him be somewhere he doesn’t want to be.
In terms of contacting you, rather than hope for your ideal, I would take his recent track record as a sign that he is not going to be killing himself to contact you. You will never know if he *actually* wants to contact you if you keep contacting him and at the end of the day, he is polite, but that is it and that sounds like he is being kind to you because you won’t realise that it’s over, rather than someone who is gagging to get back together with you. There comes a point when you have to gather your self-respect and fight the urge to kneejerk and contact him because all you are doing is delaying the inevitable.
Hi NML,
Thanks for your reply, what you say totaly makes sense i know that. I guess i’m just really struggling to get past this. You are def right about one thing and that was that he did not communicate, I could never get him to talk or open up, he would just always go along with what i say or wanted, How do you get him to open up and communicate? could i have done more? I was always the stronger person in the relationship and he was clingy and was insecure that i may leave him one day, which i constantly reassured him i wouldnt. All his friends and family would tell him that he was lucky to have me and that i was to good for him, but i loved him for who he was and would build up his confidance. Then out of the blue that changed and he left me, he said he flet that he didnt love me anymore but i just cant see how that could happen over night, can it? I seem to think that he started to feel that way because he got attention from another woman and started to focus on that and not me or us?? Maybe i boosted his seIf esteem to much because he seemed to change in the end and started to get this ego which was totally not like him… he had even said at one point that he has never had attention from women in his life and implying that he now was, i just thought it was nice that he felt good about himself… I know i’m just trying to rationalise it and look for answers in what little information he gave me… I also think that now that th ‘other girl’ is off the scene he will go back to his low self estem self and loose the ego trip and be himself again and come back to me…I have already made the decision that i will NOT contact him again, but i cant deny that i am secretly hoping he will still call or come back to me..
Fi,
How much did you get out of the relationship? It sounds like the relationship was about him and his issues with self-esteem.
Would you really want a man back that left for another? Why would you settle for so little?? You deserve better than this!!!!
Wow. Stumbled into the right space here!
Just now getting out of my Friends With Benefits for Him Only Non-Relationship w/ who knows how to describe him?
I am on my way for vacation and have told him that when I return, I would change a lot of things in my life. I now believe this should happen right now.
He is keeping me from moving on with my life.
He used to crawl through my window in college, and I tolerated that. I took him into my bed after being woken suddenly from my sleep. I continued this for reasons unbeknownst to me now.
We were much more open & involved in this past 10 month stint. Was exclusive (Maybe?) – and I’m really freaked out that he has come by my house and entered it at night a few times to “see if” I “was okay.”
Violation maybe?
I am in counseling for relationship addiction. What the hell attracted me to this distraction in the first place?
Brad,
You provide your opinion and I’ll provide mine.
My EUM follows the rules of being an EUM by the letter. In 4 weeks of NC he send me two emails (both only referring to sex) to which I responded that he should call an escort service and that I did´t want to be with a person like him (I hadn´t discovered this blog yet at the time..) and now yesterday he texted me asking how I am doing. I deleted it instantly.
I was feeling quite comfortable without him and I was quite proud and relieved that I told him off in my email reply but appearantly that just went one ear in, out the other. I thought I was finally doing fine and getting over him, his emails and text make me soo angry. It upsets me and I again find myself waiting for the next contact from him, just like when we were dating.
I should block his number and mailadress. But I´m not quite there yet. I block them and then at some point panic and unblock it again. I hope reading here will help give me the strength to kick this addiction soon.
Anne ,
If you’re not going to respond then why not block communication? Why prolong the inevitable?
I think because I kinda feel power too when he contacts. I like seeing the tables turned and see how pathetic he is behaving. But rationally I know they are not really turned. Cause it upsets me and he probably doens´t care that I don´t respond.
So I don´t know why I prolong the suffering. It really feels like quitting smoking and blocking numbers etc. is like hiding your cigarettes in your house. It´s a barrier but you know where you hid them.
Anne,
I can personally say that when I completely broke contact it was a liberating experience. When I made the necessary steps to eliminate him from my life was when I knew I was in control.
I’m sorry I do not recall your history with this guy, as I confused you with another poster yesterday?
Hey Ladies ,
SO before I read this post , my ex’s best friend had advised me about the whole no-contact deal. It was so harsh and hard but reading this post made me feel it is absolutely necessary. I spent two and half years with my ex, where we did 10 months long distance and I travelled half way across the world to come back to him. He used our religious differences for not marrying me and said he didnt want to commit because he was young and did want to go astray with his family. Its been so hard feeling like an idiot for fighting for him, waiting for him to get down to his knees and be there for me. But i am down with he no-contact policy , sure were over but he did love and care for me. Maybe not enough , but either way the no-contact will be a sudden kill for him and I want him to suffer.
Lam, the No Contact is for you to move on with your life and not as a “kill” for him. What makes you beleive he will suffer? How will you know if he is suffering? You would have to make contact to find out,right? If you use No Contact to see if he will contact you, you may be in for a long wait.
Read NML’s 3 part posts about the NO Contact and you will understand.
I’m back again. And this time I can’t hold back the tears.
I started dating my eum again. Well, I really honestly thought he changed. Stopped drinking, called more, made an attempt to visit more often. He has been every so sweet with me, and I enjoy it. We enjoy being with each other… a lot.
Lately though, I’ve been finding my heart wanting more again. I have not been having sex with him because I didn’t want our relationship to be based solely on that. I told him that I wanted to try getting more serious with him again. And he hasn’t responded to any of my texts since. I’m heartbroken. Yes, I feel stupid too. … It seems that every time I get attached to him, he backs away. And when I pretend that I’m uninterested in him, he tries so hard to get my attention. Oh God, why won’t I stop this vicious cycle. Why won’t I listen to my head instead of constantly following my unwise heart. I can’t stop crying….
Dear NML,
I desperately need your advice.Having been with an EUM for the last 18 months I am scared that I am losing it completely.We are in different cities now,but I do not seem to be making much headway in getting over him.I do understand that anyway I look at it,he is bad news for me.He is never gonna understand how I feel about me,nor is he going to give me what I want in terms of companionship,love or even friendship.I have tried NC before and sometimes I have been very successful,but everytime I would end up breaking it after a point and get back to him.There has been nothing physical between us,and I am more than happy for the same, I wouldn’t have been able to handle that as well.So at best I can only call it a friendship that went sour.Somehow I don’t seem to be handling this well.I only seem to be thinking about why he could never accept me,love me,something must be wrong with me…I may not be attractive enough and all that..though i know that it is not true.I keep analysing this all the time as if I have nothing better to do.I feel ashamed about myself for that,for wasting so much of my precious time over this,when there is so much more I can do to utilise my time more productively.This feeling that I am going crazy is overwhelming..Is this normal…Do women who have been with EUMs for a long time feel this way?Or am I the only one?I have heard again and again that I need to keep my mind occupied with other things to move on in life and get over him…I understand that but the sad part is that I don’t feel like doing anything else,cos’ whatever I do,it only seems to remind me of him.I start thinking that it would be great if we could do these things together..I know this sounds pathetic but I don’t want to be a loser..at any cost…I want to get over this man once and for all and lead a healthy lifestyle.Is that ever going to possible given my current state of mind…Please please advise.
What does it mean when after you have broken up for 4 months and you were together for 8 years before that, your ex drives 800 km to show up at your door and tell you that he misses you and wants to get back together?
Coralie, have you asked him what it means? Was it a good relationship that just ended?
Coralie,
if you are here be cause he is/ was an EUM/AC then I think the answer to your question is at the end of the above post, I’ve copied it below for your convenience and so that I could reread it again. To me, it describes a healthy partnership very clearly.
” The key to all of this, is what happens after he gets back in contact. Do you live happily ever after? Is he a different man? Does he do everything that you’ve been asking for and continue to do it? Does he put both of his feet into the relationship?
Or does he disappear? Does he text you, you reply, then not return your text? Does he promise you the earth but you end up with a crumb? Is it same sh*t, different week?
You know what the contact meant by what happened afterwards. It’s not the contact, it’s what he does with it and what happens afterwards that counts. I suspect if you’re a Baggage Reclaim reader, it didn’t work out too well…”
This is a wonderful article. I have just ended a relationship that has made me so miserable. The whole time I was trying desperate measures to keep him. I convinced myself that I loved him. It was an illusion. I realize now I chose this man because he was unavailable.
I had the problem, it was my self esteem, I didn’t think much of myself or even think of myself, it was all about his happiness, his life, his needs. Yuck.. how could I be so stupid.
Now comes the healing and stopping those voices in my head that tries to rationalize that ‘he’ was “a prize to beholdâ€. Yes I need to change, I need to make myself worthy of being a prize to a loving available man. Its all about me for the first time in my life. (I am 52). It is strange to really dig deep into my soul and be honest and search for those hidden reasons why I behave the way I have for so many lonely unhappy years. Wow, I have wasted so much precious time on useless pathetic men.
Thanks so much to everyone with all your personal input, that takes courage! Love to all. xxxx
Thankyou Brad K
Hmmm thank you for your answers. I will have to wait and see what he does. But, I intend on sticking to the truths I have come to know over the past 4 months and that is that I need this time for me. For the fitst time in my life I am putting myself first, getting to know me and working on me so that I am a whole and happy individual. Him just appearing really shook things up for me and I was struck with ‘what the heck do you want?’ kind of feelings. he has since called me but I intend on telling him that I am not ready for a relationship yet. If he has REALLY changed (as he said he has) and he REALLY wants me for me and for being his fallback girl then he will wait for me until I am ready and not only that, the very specific things that I need to see changed…will have changed! Ahhh. It feels so good to finally see things for what they really are. Thanks for your input 🙂 It is much appreciated 🙂
Truthhurts: he told me that he wants me back. That he made a mistake. It was not a good relationship that just ended. he has unresolved issues with his parents that I think is the source of his issues. Therefore until there is resolution with these issues the possibility for a healthy relationship is just not there! When he was told me how he made a mistake and explained to be how he has changed…the thing is that i dont buy it 100%. If I see that he has not resolved his issues with his family then there is NO WAY that I am entering that drama again!! Plus, as I said before, i am not 100% ready for a relationship either. AND he now lives 800 km away from me! So WHY am I going to get back together with him? Because we have a history? because i am familiar to him? Because I ‘make him happy’ (as he told me)? but as i told him, I cannot be his source of happiness…he needs to find his own happiness independent of me. If and only if we are 2 whole, happy people, who have resolved all of our issues, can we even THINK about getting back together! Plus, if he really want to be with me…he will work on all his issues and show me how he has changed…in the meantime, I will continue to work on me, become stable and confident that i wont fall back in my old patterns and then pursue a new relationship!
Hi Coralie, thanks for your answer. I think you are right to set some very rigid standards that he has to adhere to if you are still considering a future with the guy.
Mine is that my eum has to be in therapy dealing with his issues for at least 3 months. Under no other circumstance will I believe that he is really trying to change. And I know that it is highly unlikely for him to go into therapy.
And “in the meantime” I too am working on myself and more and more I come to the conclusion that I do not want him back, that I probably wasn´t even in love with him to begin with and that it isn´t meantime. It is a new beginnning.
Good luck!
I am so happy for you, truthhurts 🙂
It IS a new begining!!
i am so glad i found this site.
broke it off with my EUM 2 weeks ago. he had said he didn’t want to have to “check in” with me by calling me, thought hanging out once a week was getting to be a bit much, mainly contacted me through facebook and texts, and thought totally disappearing for about 10 days (until i called him on it) would be a good way to readjust the relationship so it wouldn’t be so “claustrophobic.” he said he didn’t “want to do to the breakup thing where we stop talking and be awkward and rebound with people we don’t even like” but also didn’t want to do anything “in that immediate moment to salvage things” and so wanted to “take a break” .
i knew that was bs so i said i couldn’t, and that i deserved better and needed space. he protested, called me “emotionally constipated” and said he was worried about me and thought we should talk again in a few days after some space. well, after continued texts and facebook messages of “i miss you! i hope we can hang out soon” i finally just sent a facebook message of “its nice to know you want to be friends, maybe someday we will be, but lets leave it for awhile” and then he replies “ouch. i hope you get over it”
it’s been NC since, except tonight there was an accidental run-in. i was with my friends, and he with one of his buddies…..not only did he push for conversation, but he stood there staring at me as i did my best classy act and politely said hello and responded briefly to his friend making conversation with me. then he had the nerve to come over and hug me and say ” i want to talk to you some day soon… im nervous, i …um, yeah”
this is the guy who not only cheated on me (he warped it in such a way to cause me to believe it wasn’t, until i realized now what it was) but never called, never made plans to hang out, used to send cute facebook messages during the work week until he stopped, we met up on weekends as we have the same basic big group of friends….but he also gave me an (extremely painful) STI that i am now stuck with for the rest of my life and he is in denial for the responsibility despite the very obvious truth. it will now be that much harder for me to make a connection and be intimate with someone because of this.
i am a smart, beautiful young girl in her twenties. im witty, outgoing and have a lot to offer. but it apparently isn’t enough.
he is the type of guy who everyone seems to adore. he has all the markings of an EUM as i have gotten to know him…. but in front of our peers he is the “goofy gentleman” with big blue puppy dog eyes and a habit of “accidentally having” girls fall in love with him when he is “innocently being friendly.” no one gets to see or experience the EUM stuff, but i have.
it isn’t fair, and clearly i am having a weak moment here. he was incredibly affectionate in bed, but doesn’t want to put in the effort to be with me. and now he plays the hurt man who won’t respect my need for space and tells me he feels like he “lost his best friend.”
but he is an EUM through and through i know it! still…. i am feeling so fucked up and sad, and angry. i wish he was the person i thought he was… the one in my head, and in my good memories.
tell me what to do here. anything at all i can relate to. i deleted his phone number, the old facebook messages, the reminders, but i still haven’t had the balls to “defriend” him off facebook. should i? would it send the message that i am childish, immature and emotionally weak? we have the same group of friends, and that won’t change much anytime soon because we are all in a foreign country and are the only english-speaking people around.
he said he wants to talk in a few days. should i wait and see what he has to say? even if it is to tell him once more that i can’t pretend to be platonic, should i honor his request to talk and be classy? if he even follows through and attempts to contact me again after the accidental run-in tonight?
what do i do?? why is he actually refusing a great and wonderful thing? im in a moment of weakness here…
— starbuck
Hi Starbuck, I don´t think you will appear weak or childish if you delete him from facebook and stick to No Contact for a while. You are a strong, healthy woman who fell in love with a man that can´t return the feeling. There is nothing weird about taking your time and protecting your feelings to get over that. There is nothing weak in friends knowing or guessing that this is what you are doing. Almost everyone will recognize what you are feeling and will hopefully respect it. Who doesn´t know heartbreak? And yes, you will perhaps appear voulnerable to your EUM but who cares? Didn´t you think it was better to be rid of him?
The fact that you are worried about his reaction says that you are perhaps hoping that if you behave in a certain “non weak” way, he will still respect you and perhaps even change his feelings about you. That is highly unlikely. And if he is a half decent guy he will respect you just as well if you lay your cards on the table and do what you need to do to get over this. If he doesn´t he isn´t worthy of your worries to begin with.
Good luck!
thanks truthhurts…. i deleted him yesterday. got a phonecall from him that night, but didn’t pick up. it was extremely difficult and so far is way more difficult to feel empowered by it than i thought. right now i’m wondering if i’m being too harsh, and the possibility that he may not be an EUM (he’s not totally evil like the boyfriend before him!!) is bothering me/….. it’s so unlike my character to shut someone out and be mean like this. i can just see his sad face and those damn blue eyes in my mind.
UGHHhhh. i hope this works.
All I can say is thank God I found this website. It has literally saved my life. I too am in a similar situation and desperately need some encouragement. My problems started about 4 years ago. I am a professional, moral, and intelligent woman for starters. : } Or so I thought. I am so devastated and ashamed of my circumstances.
My assclown lives a couple houses down from me in our neighborhood. Our families have been friends for 6 years, our children play together. Assclown left his wife about 3 years ago. During his separation from her, he openly informed me that he had feelings for me, knowing that I was happily married. He pursued me relentlessly, calling, coming over when my husband wasn’t home. I at times hid in my home with the lights off to avoid him coming over or being near him alone, as I was trying to do the “right thingâ€. When I realized I was definitely attracted to him, I knew that being in a close proximity with him was not a good idea. I avoided him for about 2 years. He eventually moved back in with his wife “because of the kids and she couldn’t handle the financesâ€. He continued to pursue me. One day he was very mean to me unprovoked and I didn’t speak to him for 2 years. He was not remorseful and I was very hurt during that time, praying for an apology.
Well last year out of the blue, he came down to my home and apologized for his behavior saying that he missed me and wanted our families to be friends again. He said that he has loved me for 4 years. Well, I lost my faculties! I forgave him immediately. He turned on his charm again and this time I didn’t have the strength to resist. He was very bold and swept me off my feet, said all the right things, said he wanted to be with me, didn’t sleep with his wife, only wanted me, etc. Over the course of 7 months, we declared our love for each other, but he never had “time†to see me. He would only see me an hour or two a week, sometimes not at all. He was all talk and no action, promising this get away, this outing, etc., but something always came up. We basically had a texting relationship only. We loved by text, had sex by text, and fought by text. Pathetic I know.
He was not kind to me, used foul language toward me, didn’t want me in his biz, always had excuses why he couldn’t see me, talked about his attraction to other women, told me I was bossy when I wanted to share his problems, and told me I had no say in his life. Funny he didn’t say that when he asked me to borrow money several times, in which I willing gave him, because I loved him and would have given him anything he asked for (which I might add he has not and I am sure has no intention of paying back). Texting is not meant to be the only form of communication in a relationship. Well he sure didn’t have any problem walking down to my house for a quick f—k on a few occasions, which I must admit was the best sex I have ever had. I hate to admit it but he gave me what I needed: like a harlequin romance, walk through the door, rough me up against the wall, very passionate/hard/wanting me behavior. It was a nice change from what I had been getting for the last 15 years.
The only reason I allowed the relationship to start was because when he said he loved me for 4 years (and I just melted) and with the way I felt about him, I thought we might be soulmates, I had to find out. I was so deceived and misled. I love my husband, who is very good to me, and I am ashamed for what I did. But I was confused and life is too short to let the love of your life pass you by. He had many personal problems: family problems, problems with his siblings/parents, job problems, no car, no money, psychological problems, anger mgmt probs, etc. Well we had an argument one night by text and I told him that I couldn’t accept be treated disrespectfully. He stopped talking to me cold turkey, no explanation, no remorse, wouldn’t reply to my texts, refused to talk to me. So, to save what dignity I had left, I stopped trying. The last thing I told him was that I would love him until I took my last breath and that he would always know I felt our love was worth fighting for. A day later he sent me a text saying “it is not me, it is him, he just can’t talk to anyone right now. He said he knows I care about him, and I looked good, he just can’t talk.â€
Well funny thing is, he was “talking†to another woman across the street within the week. It has been almost 4 months, and I haven’t heard a word from him. He ignores me in our neighborhood, at the kid’s school, he flirts with other women, he is seeing the “other woman†across the street now. This is the short version. My soul was shattered, my heart completely broken. I believe I would have left my family for this man. When we were together, it was “meant to beâ€. I am absolutely crazy in love him. He said he was in love with me long before I realized I was in love with him. I never thought we would break up. I mean, hell, he pursued me for 4 years, I figured he knew exactly what he wanted. I guess I should have realized where I stood when I asked him to meet me on Christmas Eve and he replied that he couldn’t because he was baking Christmas cookies with his wife!
Thankfully, I realize what I have with my husband and am putting my part of the marriage back together. This is my problem: I can’t get over this man. I have to see him every day. It causes me so much pain and is reminder to me every day that “I wasn’t good enoughâ€. He was so mean to me in the end and I worry he is laughing inside at my stupidity, when all along I thought I was the love of his life. I have to see him with “other woman†across the street. It kills me to see him with her and his wife. It hurts to breathe and I have had times where I just prayed that my heart would stop beating because it hurts so much. I know he is not good for me, but my heart keeps telling me we are meant to be and that our lives aren’t through with each other yet. As each day passes, I am more devastated. I miss him like crazy and I know I shouldn’t. I don’t understand how he has no remorse for hurting me, how he just decided one morning to stop loving me (if he ever did) and am so hurt that he doesn’t miss me. How can I get past this if I have to see him with “other women†knowing he doesn’t care about me. After everything, my love for him has not diminished. He is a terrible person and I know deep down he is not happy. I didn’t ask for this situation, wasn’t looking for it, and I feel victimized and used. I feel I am paying all the consequences and having all the pain while he is content with his new love interest, like he has erased me from his mind like I never existed. I keep telling myself I would feel better if I knew he missed me and was suffering some consequences of our broken relationship, but I don’t think I will ever know those answers. If anyone has any insight into my situation, please help me. Thanks.
Wow. I swear to God, you all were dating my assclown. I gave him 8 months of my life, feel DEEPLY in love with him, and just blocked his number about an hour ago, so he can’t “wait” and try to contact me again, anymore. I spilled my heart out to him, and told him exactly how I felt the whole time. He told me he loved me, but then he would take every opportunity he could to browse dating sights, and to chat with his myspace “friends.” He lied to me so many times, none of which I can prove for sure, but my gut and other people tell me otherwise. This man was all about his suffering, never cared how his actions were making me feel.
I just wanted to respond to a couple of comments. I have to agree with Brad, if you have NOT blocked his number, you are “still in contact.” I blocked my assclown’s number, I just wish I could block his email address, and I hope he doesn’t figure out that he can still message me on my blackberry. Blocking his number freed me to be able to actually have my phone off, because I am no longer constantly checking my phone to see if he has messaged me.
I also wanted to comment about the friends on myspace, etc. Yes, I do look at that as a warning sign. Considering all his friends are women, and he would tell me about some of them suddenly adding his other girl “friends” but not deleting that person due to the stalking nature it looked like, yes, that is a warning sign. I even deleted my profile for a while because of him, and all the negative memories it kept bringing up. I used to be his #1 on his page, but my comments were sprinkled amidst hearts and questionable comments from his “fan club.” I have a REAL problem with Myspace.
And, this man spent every weekend with me, as if we were together. Not to mention, I spent EVERY holiday with his family and him, and they even thought we were together. But, when I tried to break it off with him at the beginning of this year and I dated a couple of other guys, he constantly threw that into my face, even though he dated someone else (and SLEPT with them) while him and I were “dating”.
It is pathetic. He wanted his cake and to eat it too. He really IS a wonderful guy, but he has some SERIOUS issues. I am DONE putting up with his behavior, and his lack of concern for how his actions are hurting me. It seems it was always ONLY about him. NEVER about me. “It’s not you, Kori, it’s me.” BUT, NEVER EVER did I hear even one “I’m sorry.” EVER.
So, I had it. I asked him if I should let this go or is there any hope. I couldn’t do the limbo anymore. His response was “You put me on the spot.” My response was “I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that 8 months was not enough time to figure out if you want to give this a chance, and that it was putting you on the spot.”
And I blocked his number.
To hell with him. I just feel bad for the next girl he does this to, because I wasn’t the first. The first one contacted me in January, which is what led to the “breakup” at that time. But this time is for GOOD!!!
Now I am just tasked with moving on, and trying to figure out God’s reason for all this. This whole situation brought me lower than I have ever been, and I have been through A LOT!!!!! WAY more than most.
But, today, for the first time in forever, I feel strong, and in control.
Best of luck to you all, I KNOW HOW HARD IT IS!!! But YOU CAN DO IT! YOU DON’T DESERVE IT!!!
Sorry – correction – blocking him actually allowed me to have my phone ON, (not off LOL!) because I am not checking every 2 seconds to see if he has messaged me with a profession of love and commitment that I will never get.
thanks all….
i admit, i have not blocked his number (we are in a foreign country, i haven’t figured out how on these phones yet) nor have i blocked his email address, though i have deleted him off facebook (but not some mutual friends.)
our mutual friends OFTEN are in the same place at the same time… ;like i said, we are a group of english speaking people in a foreign country and i can’t ask friends to choose or change plans. there is one main nightlife district everyone goes to.
i can’t bring myself to block him completely. when he ran into me and my group of friends a couple days ago, he had a sad look on his face. he stared at me the whole time as our mutual friends did the ice- breakey chat stuff. he came over and hugged me and said “i really want to talk to you.” but then i blocked him. the only reason (maybe) that i didn’t pick up when he called after that, is because i didn’t have the ringer on and was out with friends.
help. i don’t deserve the way he treated me, but i wonder if i am not letting him have the chance to apologize and make things right.
sorry blocked him* = deleted him off facebook
After discovering this link last night, AFTER I took the final step to initiate NC with my assclown, and after I posted, I forwarded the link to my BFF who is still somewhat hooked on her ex from over a year ago. I have to say thank you to everyone, even those who are suffering like me, because this site REALLY REALLY made me feel so much stronger.
I am in love with the guy, and I always will be. At the same time, I detest him for the pain I went through the past months, and for him not even trying to care or understand that HE is responsible for that pain. The only responsibility I can take in the whole thing is that I am the dummy who put up with it for so long. And, he always said he wants “simple” and my requests for his commitment and my response to his not giving it to me was “drama” and “too much like R”. He never got it through his thick skull that the “drama” would never have existed if he hadn’t led me on for his own selfish needs for so long and that he was creating his own drama and complications, and dragging me right into the muck of it. I don’t need that.
But…he would hang around and wait for an invite to certain events, and when I didn’t, because I didn’t know he was in town, he would accuse me of going on a date, when that wasn’t even the reason I didn’t include him. Not to mention, the constant guilt trips!! He was such a victim of me, when I didn’t even mean to say something to hurt him. He had a way of turning around things I said into something mean, when it wasn’t meant that way, and after I would cry and apologize, he would throw it in my face again….then again….wow.
I have to add that he quit having sex with me, even though he would get all over me, then turn me down. I guess it was his controlling way of saying “See, I am not using you, because I am not having sex with you anymore.” He never understood that just because he wasn’t screwing me, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t “screwing” me. What an ass!
I just can’t believe I put up with that shit for so long. I am smarter than that. But, if this helps ANYONE, then maybe that is the reason this all happened in the first place.
STAY STRONG!!!
Brad K.,
First I want to say that I appreciate you responding to my post, as I have been desperate for another persective and it is appreciated. I have read many of your posts and feel that you are very insightful and have a lot of wisdom in regards to these issues.
There are a few things I want to add and clarify. I thought about my situation long and hard before allowing anything to happen between me and Bozo. You are absolutely correct that this not only affects us, but our marriages, our children, our faith, our community, etc. To me, I went into this honestly, truthfully, openly, and gave everything that I am to see where this went. I know it may be difficult to believe, but I absolutely love my husband, and have never contemplated or imagined that I would stray from him. It is against my religious beliefs. We have been married for 15 years, a wonderful marriage, which has been lacking in “excitement” and “romance” for a few years. That is no excuse, but I have repeatedly talked to my husband about this issue, with no change. Still no excuse. I am ashamed of my choices and my actions. However, with the way Bozo pursued me, talked to me, made me feel, I made the choice to see if we were meant to be. This has been an ongoing burden for 4 years. I figured if I was just a sexual conquest, he would have forgotten about me and not wasted all that time just for that purpose. I even discussed with him my expectations at the beginning of our “relationship.” And to make my intentions clearer, I didn’t have sex with him right away, it was a couple months into the relationship, which was wonderful at the beginning, because I wanted to feel sure he wasn’t after me for a summer fling. So it sounds like what you are saying is that I was just a sexual conquest for him, never mind all the texting all day long, i love you’s, etc. We were together 7 months and only had sex 3 times period. Trading up for a happier family wasn’t my motive. I was conflicted and wasn’t sure I would be able to give up my husband and family. Thank God I found out how he was before that happened or before we were caught. And believe me I have paid many consequences, and am well aware of all the health ramifications, and have had to go through many procedures to ensure I am still healthy, which have been traumatizing in itself.
We didn’t see each other blatantly in the neighborhood like he is with “other woman”. I was very careful and he didn’t want anyone to find out about us. “OW” has been seeing going in his garage and the garage door shutting down behind her on several occasions. We were not that obvious, and he only came down on occasion. We tried to meet elsewhere to talk and spend what little time together he would give me.
I may have been his “sex adventure” but he wasn’t mine. That was not my agenda, I had no agenda. He is the devil, a deceiver. He is a terrible person, terrible to himself, a disrespecter. I couldn’t believe he had the nerve to disrespect my husband for pursuing me after me telling him it was wrong. He disrespects his wife and children. I started out being friends with his wife 6 years ago, who is in effect no better of a person than he is. Our families were friends, and I had no thoughts of attraction to him for 3 years prior. I have a secure, loving home, just felt like something was missing. Well I have learned my lesson.
By the way this man is 16 years older than me. I worried from the beginning that he just wanted a “younger” woman to make himself feel manly. But when he looked at me, held me, and told me he loved me, I was his. Period. It wasn’t about the excitement and the sneakiness for me. I hated it. I just felt like the connection between us was so strong, it could not be ignored any longer.
HAHA! I am not an avid harlequin reader, just used it as an example, but it is a good escape from time to time, but not the driving force to have an affair. : } What I really loved about Bozo, is his take charge/i want you/i desire you now/soap opera lust behavior, because that made this mother of two feel like a woman again and because the sparks have been gone in my marriage for awhile.
I have been focusing on my marriage and we are slowy regaining the sparks back again. I know that this is where I am supposed to be. I am just having a hard time getting over him. I will download the book and heed all the wonderful advice on this website. Part of me thanks God everyday that I have a wonderful family and no sexual diseases from this asshole/assclown. But part of me misses him and is so hurt by the fact that I gave him everything that I am, he ended it abruptly, rudely, with no compassion, no concern for my feelings, and has not contacted me since. Most the time he ignores me. I was wonderful to him, lent him money I will never get back, helped him through hard times. He really didn’t add anything to me or my life, it was all about him.
I have even spent more time outside in hopes that just him seeing me will reignite his feelings for me and make him realize that he loves me. Nothing has worked. I don’t ever let him see me looking at him, but I have seen him watching me many times, and wonder what he is thinking and feeling. Nothing has been more devastating than watching him cavort with OW across the street. It just sucks the breath right out me! My lungs and legs collapse at the sight of it. In my heart I know I am better off that this ended. I just need to know how to stop feeling the lungs and legs collapse at the sight of him with OW or with his wife. I can say with certainty that OW has spent more time with him in the last 3 months, than we ever did in the 7 we were seeing each other, and she is nothing to get “excited about”, plus she is about 25 years younger than him, married, with “little” kids. I get jealous thinking about him with her and thinking about his wife getting to come home to him, see him in the morning, eat with him, spend time with him, but part of me wonders if she is really that lucky. Look what he has done to me and HER. God what a disaster. This is the lowest I have ever been in my life, crushed to the core. What can I do to keep from looking like the one who lost out here? I want him to feel remorse and realize what he lost in me. I try to hold my head up when I am out, but can’t help but feeling used and rejected. It doesn’t appear he has faced any consequences, and that is what bothers me the most. Not only does he not think I am good enough for him and didn’t mind rejecting me, being hateful to me, etc., he has no consequences to face. Any feedback I can get is appreciated. Thanks.
Yep, just as I suspected. EUM emailed me today, after 4 days of NC. I wish I could block his email address, but my provider doesn’t let me block individuals. I just deleted it. He figured out that I had blocked his number when I didn’t respond to any of his texts. It sucks, because I can’t change my email address, too many people have it, and too many online accounts are using it, being that it is my name. Roller coaster again! But…I am NOT responding back.
Miserable Love~ Brad was correct when he advised you not to continue having involvement with this person who is currently married (and so are you). Being number two (or in this case, 3, 4, 5) is a lonely place, full of fear, abandonment, distrust and resentment.
Seems like you know what you have to do and you’re working to reunite with your husband and keeping your family together. I hope this site and the many who have posted here will help you sort through your own personal issues, so that you’ll start to put the broken pieces back together and figure out what you have been denying yourself.
The responsibility is yours to take back your life. Whether that be a life with your current partner/husband or one that does not include him but does include your children and the love you have for them (notice I’m not saying another mate/guy here – because that’s the last thing you will need until you’ve healed).
The issue which caused you to stray lies inside you and must be dealt with. It will take some work and digging to get to the bottom of it. Do that first, work on yourself first, love yourself first, start rebuilding your self esteem and you’ll be surprised at how some of the things which are troubling you now start to resolve themselves.
Stop obsessing about what he thinks, or how he thinks of you, or who he is with or not with by concentrating on yourself. Brad’s advice on how to distract yourself is very helpful. Pick up an old hobby or start a new one, start excercising regularly, plan a trip for your family, etc. Get involved with YOUR life, after all you deserve that kind of love and attention…from yourself. When you’re having a difficult time come here and post – someone will read it and hopefully be able to help.
Good luck!!
Kori,
Hang in there! Too bad you don’t have the Block Sender option on your tool bar. He treated you like crap and we are smarter than that. €I am not sure which position to be in is worse: to have no contact and your EUM never try to contact you again period, like the don’t care, or to be in your situation and have them still trying to contact you and having to be strong to resist. ??? You are so strong! And you should be proud of yourself. You are in control now, and know that he still wants to contact you, and have the decision-making abilities and are in the driver seat. I wish that was my circumstance. My assclown, as you have read, said he loved me one day, then stopped talking to me completely the next with no warning, no remorse, no care for me or my feelings, and hasn’t tried to contact me in 4 months, apparently doesn’t miss me, and it is hard. Part of me knows he is an assclown and hopes he doesn’t contact me because I don’t know if I will be strong enough to resist him, but part of me misses him and wishes he would contact me/show he even thinks about me a little because of the way he crapped on me and threw me to the curb, so that I will feel in control of my life again and because he shredded my self-esteem as a woman. But, there is still the question of how I would react if he did make contact again. As I have learned, be careful what you wish and pray for, it may just come true, and there are always consequences either way. Hang in there. Keep us posted.
Betterwithouthim:
Thanks for your feedback. I am definitely trying to take my life back and it is a slow process. I guess obsessing is what I have been doing. I completely know what issues I had that allowed me to stray in the first place and am working on these issues with my husband. You are right that they need to be dealt with. I wish it was easy to stop worrying about when ass clown thinks of me, who he is with etc. That has been my biggest struggle since he has made no attempt at any contact with me. My girlfriends have told me that he would never be able to go this long without me if he loved me. I even told my ass clown that I didn’t want to be with him if he could live without me even for a day, because I was worth more than that. Well it has been 4 months so I guess it is obvious how he really feels about me. I have been religiously checking the posts for any feedback on my situation and what other people are going through and will continue to do so. Thanks again.
Thanks, guys, so much. A friend suggested that I mark it as spam, but my provider will investigate the email address and find it to be valid, so it won’t work. I can use a filter tool.
Yes, it sucks, because I know I did things wrong in that “relationship” but none of it was ever ill-intentioned, and it was all in an effort to balance my feelings with how he said he was feeling. Stupid. But, bottom line is, I can NEVER go back to the noncommittal but act like we are together torture ever again. It made me so codependent upon him that I lost myself except when we were together. And yes, part of me just wants him back. I hate going on a date and then crying when it is over because it isn’t EUM, no matter how much fun I had. When I told my sister a guy was a lot of fun, she asked me “like ****** (EUM’s name) fun?” Of course, that saddened me, and I responded “No, no one will ever be that kind of fun.” She apologized for saying that. She knew that we were two of a kind, and 100% meant for each other, except for his inability to commit. I have NEVER been sad about meeting new people, and I have NEVER broken it off with someone I was still in love with. And for whatever God’s reason is, it had to be with the one person I have ever connected with on such a higher level. I am struggling with just trying to understand why it had to be him that I had to go through this over.
This is just as bad as when we are dating, and after a month of not seeing him, and almost a week of NC, it isn’t getting any easier. And, no one will ever connect with me like he did. You can tell me that it will get easier, and I would have believed it before, because I always knew it would, but this time, I don’t think it ever will.
And I want and NEED it to get better. Fast. I’ve suffered WAY too long now.
Found a way to filter his emails with the carrier. Thank God!
Can I ask y’all one question? My EUM and I stopped having sex 3 months ago. He would tease me, and touch me, and even have a condom handy, but he would turn me down and say “I am just trying to be good.” He would get scared or change his mind. Why would he do that? We would still spend wonderful weekends together, but he still would do that. He seemed to think that is what it was about for me, when I just wanted him to make love to me…the emotion of it. Why did he do that? Why did he continue to see me? He was never after the sex. I initiated it in the beginning, and it took him a while to be comfortable around me that way. So, if it wasn’t that, what was going on?
Kori, that would throw me off too. I guess it must have made you very insecure. Maybe it was a way for him to keep in control. Have you ever asked him why he wouldn´t sleep with you?
But it is very weird however you look at it. You need and deserve more than this, that´s for sure.
Kori~ The guy is sick in the head. There is no other way to explain this horrid behavior and what he was scheming. But now you have all the proof the EUM was a loser and his assclownary will no longer be tolerated by you and remain NC for good.
You haven’t done anything to deserve this kind of sadistic treatment or behavior. Cut the strings to this guy for good – don’t give him any more chances. I can’t state this strong enough, interacting with someone like this will cause you to plummet to more depths of despair.
What he has done to you is inexcuseable, and he is a whack job. Please, please, please stay NC.
I ran into the ex EUM at 1:20 pm at the unemployment office, and I haven’t seen or spoken to him in 8 months or so. I would have left but I needed to be there and I can’t go to another office due to the County that I live in. So…there he was. I was cordial and we talked for an hour or so while waiting to be called. He told me what was happening with him and that he was no longer working. When I was laid off and he was working, I got the feeling that he felt that he was better than me and he started the ice cold behavior, but look what happened, karma is best served cold. So with this last time, I dropped kicked his A*** and did NC. He told me that his child missed me, his mother thought that I was pure gold and why weren’t we together, his friends wondered were I was…blah, blah, blah. Reality..his mother didn’t bother to invite me to his B-day party and neither did he when I was with him, she was manipulative and involved in personal business… His friends are all EU and frankly they didn’t want to see one of their own in a relationship… The ex-EUM also told me that he went to church and looked for me. You see he probably thought that I was working, and therefore he could use me for money, since he’s not, hence looking for me in church a month before our chance meeting. He also sent me a Birthday email in March and with his number at the bottom. Guess he thought that I was going to call him…NOT! The lazy way to do things.
So, what NML wrote is so true, they don’t change. He hasn’t reached out to me since although he said that he missed me, and the fun we had. BTW, he talked about his ex-wife at the unemployment office and what she was doing and not doing…he really needs to go back to her and be done with it.
Thanks, I thought I was crazy. His only excuse for that was that he was “trying to be good.” He really threw me, and now I am left with nothing but a futile effort to fix myself.
kori, you are definitely not crazy. What he did is incomprehensible for any healthy person. Sadistic is a good word for it. You are a victim of that and you let him. But that´s what we´ve all done here. Let ourselves be victimized by someone who is emotionally not healthy.
You will fix yourself, i´m sure. Good luck!
I’m with you Truthhurts. Kori you are not crazy – and yes you will fix yourself. You found this site so I know you want to change, heal and move on to better things. And believe me, now that he’s out of the picture – you will, you definitely will!!!
Best of luck!
Kori,
I am trying to figure out what “trying to be good” means? Rarely does a man turn down sex. He could been just pulling a power play manipulating sex. Withholding sex for whatever reason is not healthy and is mean and manipulative. Why is he not comfortable having sex? It doesn’t matter now. I wouldn’t continue to play games with him. You are better than that and deserve more, and YOUR needs aren’t being met. Hang in there and keep us posted.
I can’t tell you enough how much you guys are literally saving my life. I guess you can’t reason with a crazy person, and I have been going back and forth between thinking maybe I’m crazy, because I can’t figure out what is going on in his head, or why this all happened; and with the realization that he has serious issues, and I can do nothing about this. For the first time, I have a regret – going out on that first date with him. It sucks, because if he were “normal” we really had something truly magical. And now, all other men have to meet up to those many, many standards that he raised the bar on for me. I do know this now…I can’t EVER EVER be with someone who can’t fix himself, because I can’t do it for anyone else anymore, either consciously or unconsciously. I have NEVER regretted anything in my life, because I believe that even the mistakes are not mistakes, but I do regret him. And, it was totally, totally unavoidable, because there was NO indication of what was to come, and every other time, there was. It was simply incredible, and amazing, and nothing less.
Thanks again. I am beginning to crawl back up from the hole I have been in for so many months.
Kori,
My assclown was a crazy ass. HAHA And you can’t reason with them or even have a normal conversation with them. I too have thought I am crazy and maybe caused him to be the way he has been acting to me, but I played it over and over in my mind and he is a crazy sucker who turns things around to make it look like I am the one with the “probs”. Bullcrap! If anything, we have been tolerant and kind and patient with these idiots who can’t admit their own faults. I totally agree that mistakes are not mistakes, things happen for a reason, good or bad. Part of me doesn’t regret what happened with my assclown because not only was it the worst time in my life, it was also one of the best times and feelings of my life. I will love him until I take my breath. Some of the few happy moments we had were the most wonderful and intense moments of my life that I might have never had. Like the movie, Bridges of Madison County, Clint Eastwood said that love like this doesn’t come along but once in a lifetime, and sometimes never, and I am grateful that at least on my side, I got to experience it. Unfortunately, he didn’t feel the same, but at the time, it felt like he did. But, I do regret getting involved with him since I am married, but I am thankful for what little time I had with him. I know that sounds pathetic. I felt like since he had been pursuing me for 4 years, we were destined to become involved with each other. Unfortunately, it didn’t end up the way he said it would or I thought it would. He is amazing and an amazing asshole, all at the same time. And that I can’t live with or give up who I am for him or anyone. I too am in the biggest hole of my life and have been taking it day by day. We seem to be going through some of the same things. Some days I just have to remind myself to keep breathing. I understand. Just keep breathing and put one foot in front of the other, and hold your head high. That is all we can do right now.
Thank you everyone, I can’t even tell you how much you are all my lifeline right now. I have WONDERFUL friends who coach me through all this, and I am thankful for it, and some of them have gone through some degree of what I am going through, but to have the support of complete strangers who KNOW…KNOW exactly how it feels is very encouraging…
He “tagged” me on myspace tonight, and I just saw it. Yet another one of the ways he is trying to get through to me. He tagged me “I really miss you” and I deleted it immediately, and called my best friend as I broke down. WTF?!? This is SO MUCH harder than anything I have ever been through, and at the very moment, I am honestly a complete mess.
It is amazing that everyone, in their own despair, can find it in themselves to reach out to someone else, I KNOW how hard that is, so THANK YOU. Miserable Love, I know how you feel. I WILL love him until the last breath in my body, just like you. I am not, and I don’t know if I will ever be at the point you are, where you are thankful for the fact that you felt that once in a lifetime love, because it hurts so damn bad. I know neither one of us were married, but I do know how that feels. And it sucks, and it yanks every ounce of hope out of you.
Don’t worry, I am still enforcing the NC rule. I have no choice. I can NEVER go back to that again. I just can’t.
Thank you all again. Because I needed this, and just like y’all, I will need it for a while to get through this.
My assclown is definitely narcissistic and probably bipolar with his mood swings. I don’t think he knows how to love anyone and I know he doesn’t love himself. And he definitely wasn’t the man I fell in love with, which was not the real him. What I fell in love with was a facade, and does not exist. He was faking it or acting the whole time, just to reel me in. I caught him in many lies, and lying when it wasn’t necessary. I realize that I sometimes put myself out in my yard so that I can see what he is doing, catch a glimpse of him, see who he is with, etc. I feel that I am better off knowing and staying informed, but I know it is just torturing myself, because everything I see doesn’t change how he feels about me. I am slowly pulling away from the habit of watching him, looking out the window, etc. I just miss him and feel happy just catching a glimpse of him, and I find myself smiling at the sight of him. I really have just wanted to hide away from him, but for my own self-esteem/dignity, and to show him “I am just fine without himâ€, I have put myself out where he can see me (not in obvious ways to make myself look more needy and stupid) in hopes that seeing me will make him realize how much he misses me and loves me. Well that hasn’t worked either and I am tired of doing extra just to get him to notice me. I worried that if I was “out of sightâ€, I would be out of his mind and he wouldn’t think about me. But being in sight, hasn’t worked at all. He doesn’t care. He has been out of my sight for 4 months and I love him just as much as I ever did and probably always will.
Here are my questions:
Does anyone else feel like that our assclown hasn’t had to pay any consequences for their behavior or the way they have treated us? I don’t treat people like that because I would feel guilty and remorse for my behavior, but he hasn’t and probably won’t. I am really bitter about being the one who is paying all the consequences of our failed relationship or both of our poor decisions, etc., especially when I wasn’t out searching for this situation, nor is it something I would have ever considered doing. He persistently bothered me for 4 years like a perpetrator, relentless, pushy, etc., and he gets to act however he wants and pay no consequences, move on to his next conquest, stay with his wife, have no remorse, and I am broken and suffering consequences for my choices and his actions. I am really stuck on this. I can only pray that at some point in his life God will see to it that he pays consequences for his actions, to purposely try to ruin another person’s marriage, just to use them, and discard them like they are trash, to hell with their feelings, their life, their family, their needs, and their wishes. Does anyone else struggle with this, and can anyone else see when their assclown pays consequences or know what to watch for to see if they are paying consequences??
I just can’t believe another human being can supposedly love and care about you one day, then you mean nothing to them the next day? I can’t even begin to register than in my mind. But that is how my assclown works apparently.
My second question is this: I am worried about appearances. I worry that he is laughing his ass off knowing that he used me for his purposes then kicked me to the curb. What is the best way for me to come out looking better than him in this situation? When he stopped talking to me, I didn’t bug him, I walked away, figured if he didn’t want me, I wasn’t going to beg for his attention. I have handled myself appropriately and with as much dignity as possible. When I have been outside, I have played and laughed with my kids and the neighbor kids, tried to be sociable, “happy”, laughing, doing yardwork with my husband, etc. All while he sits in his garage and either watches or hears me. What else can I do? There have been times outside that I totally had to “put on” just to appear happy when I have been devastated and broken inside, but do it for the sake of appearances. Is there anything that can be done to make him realize what he has lost? Is there anything I can do to make him realize that I was the best thing that happened to him? Is there anything I can do to make him miss me and what we had (not that I would take him back), but at least put myself back “on top” and in the drivers seat?? Any advice would be appreciated.
Kori,
Well you have an advantage that I don’t, a good support network. Due to my married circumstances, I can only talk to my best girlfriend and my mother, and have to hide my emotions from everyone else including my family. In so many ways I envy your situation: he is at least trying to make contact with you and at least you know he cares enough about you to make contact. Of course, with that comes your difficulty of having to make the NC decision and stay strong. Of course you are doing the right thing by not responding, but at least you have “control” of the situation and know that for whatever his reasons may be, he is still trying to pursue you. That has to give you a self-esteem boost for sure. God I wish I had that right now, and not the devastating feeling that he thinks I have fallen off the earth. And, yes, that feeling yanks at and sucks the life right out of you. Where there is no hope, there is no living. And I know I can never go back to my assclown even if he did try to contact me again, so maybe it is just as well that he hasn’t and probably won’t. I would freaking break down and not know what to do either. Finding this website a few days ago was a blessing to me, and any feedback I get right now is helping me get through the day. I feel for you and your situation because your heart is telling you one thing and your mind and dignity is telling you another. You should be very proud of yourself. You are stronger than you are giving yourself credit for.
Kori,
Retraction: I said he cares enough about you to make contact. I should re-word that to say he cares about himself so much to keep making contact with you. If he cared about you, he would realize what an idiot he is and let you go to move on and find a happy relationship. What I meant was that you are still on his mind and he is still trying to pursue you, just dribble enough to keep you hanging on, for whatever his motives may be. Selfishness on his part, or he would be treating you properly. You are doing the right thing.
Miserable Love~ I don’t think he’s laughing his ass off or getting kicks out of being able to use you as he did. You are giving him too much credit – I hate to be so direct here but I don’t think he’s thinking of you, worrying about you, or anything else that has to do with you. He got what he wanted and then walked away to the next best thing. When he’s done with her there will be another one, and the sickest part of all this is his wife stills stays with him. So she must be unavailable herself.
You are spending endless hours wondering, overthinking, and craving the attention of a person who is abusive, manipulative, and has sent you to the darkest depths of despair. Somehow you will find a way to stop obsessing and start living. Because that is what needs to happen. You need to start living the life you deserve, because he isn’t giving you a second thought, and has no remorse for his actions.
Keep pushing forward and I wish he didn’t live on the same street because that would be somewhat easier. But in any case, it’s best to stop fantasizing about what he was…that he actually wasn’t. He isn’t that person you claim to have loved. That was another guy for all practical purposes, and that other guy has now moved away and no longer resides in that human form. He is in your imagination, he didn’t really exist, and he’s never coming back in the way you would wish it to happen in the fairytale.
There is no fairytale endings with assclowns. There just isn’t and he may be back for round 2, 3, or 4 but that will only be temporary for his ego stroke and then he’ll quickly desert you for another hot thing of interest. The cycle will repeat, over and over unless you start living and get strong enough to resist his temptations and the urge to reach out to him or respond when he tries to reel you back in.
If you allow him back, you will begin this cycle of pain and suffering all over again. I kid you not, read the blogs and how many of us women posted here have suffered the consequences of giving the assclown more chances. They do not and will not change.
Please stay strong!
Betterwithouthim,
Ouch…..
Miserable Love, yes, I feel lucky to have a circle of friends…that has got to really reek not being able to talk to anyone. But, despite your situation, we are all feeling the same hopelessness, and having the same wishings and longings about our EUM. Just like you have to do with EVERYONE, I (and I am sure I speak for everyone else too) have to put on that “happy face” to everyone besides the couple of people that are supporting me. And sometimes my cheeks hurt from that smile that I have on my face – the mask just hurts.
I do know him enough to know that he is suffering, I just can’t let that be a reason to even think about contacting him. I have to put myself first. I was putting him first the whole time while I was waiting…and waiting…for him to come to terms with this. And I can’t do it anymore. And you shouldn’t either.
I’m lucky that he lives over an hour away, so I don’t have to worry about running into him anywhere, but he has a habit of showing up.
We are all together in this.
Miserable Love~ Sorry to be so direct, but I’ve already been in your shoes myself, it was time for the wake up call and to get real.
Read more of NML’s Postings – you’ll get it because we’ve all had to get real with ourselves too.
Here are some of NML’s postings please check them out – “Seeking validation and understanding” is a good one; “Do you want to be Happy or to be Right” is another one; “Are you a Responsibility Dodger or a But Girl”, the one on Boundaries Part 1,2,3; “Obsessing & Overthinking the relationship” is another to name a few.
Just read, and absorb the information and start writing your own conclusion to what happened between yourself and the EUM. This will help you move on, and start getting motivated on what you can do for you.
Miserable Love~ I just don’t want you to suffer any longer than you have to. There are some great tools (NML Postings) on this site and then there is the stories and feedback from others to help you.
I don’t want you to have to hurt any longer than is necessary. I want to help you heal and move past the place that you are today.
All the best –
Betterwithouthim:
Thanks. I know the truth hurts, it really does, and enough time has gone by to know that a good slap of reality is what I need. I will read (and may already) have read some of those articles by NML. I can tell you have been there because “the darkest depths of despair” is exactly how I have explained my feelings to my best friend. My soul was destroyed/shattered into a million pieces, I literally lost the will to live each day, not to the point of suicidal or anything, just in a terrible “place”. I have never felt so terrible in my life! Kori was right when she said we are all in this together. Thank you guys for listening to me repeat myself and blubber about my situation. If you knew me you would know that I am a strong, independent woman, and I have turned into a pathetic, blubbering idiot. Thanks for being my friend and listening. I really do need you all right now.
Hey guys,
I just wanted you to know that I have read the articles recommended and bought NML’s book, Mr. Unavailable and the Fall Back Girl, and it has been really helpful. I am not quite through reading it, but if you all haven’t purchased the book, it was under $20.00, I recommend it. It is really helping me. You all have really helped me alot.
Kori – since our situations are so similar, I was wondering if you got the book. It addresses some of our very problems. It is a hard reality to face, but has to be faced. Of course, the book deals with several different problems, but overall it assumes that the majority of assclowns WILL return to us at some point. However, I am pretty sure that will not be the case with me. And I know I should be relieved, but part of me wishes he would contact me so that the ball would be back in my court, even though I know he doesn’t deserve to breathe the same air that I breathe. The book has also shown me that your assclown is Physically Unavailable, as well as Emotionally Unavailable, withholding sex. I have also learned that trying to “make him see” what he he has lost, misses me, wants me back, etc., is only expending more energy that he doesn’t deserve. I know the truth and that is all that matters. I am feeling a little more independent today. Lets keep each other up to date.
I am wondering
I just don’t believe that what we feel for AC’s, and for wanting them to contact us, is love. We might think it’s love, but I am starting to suspect they trigger the child-abandonment reaction in us by going away- whether they leave us emotionally and/ or physically. I am starting to think the strong intense ” longing” for them to return, physically and emotionally, is confused for love.
And “longing” for them to return is not love !! Longing may be a component of healthy love in the beginning, when we are making a decision to get to know someone better, but I would like love to be reassuring and stable and does not bring up feelings of abandonment that create drama and fear.
Just my thought of the morning.., heading off to working on having a good day. wish the same for anyone reading.
aphrogirl,
I am not sure what your situation is/was??? Your thoughts may apply to some people’s situation, but several of us who have posted are in touch with our feelings. I do respect your opinion and thoughts, as any information and insight into this hard time in our lives is appreciated. I loved my assclown long before he broke it off with me and the love has not gone away. The strong intense longing for my assclown was in affect during the relationship, not just after it was over, waiting for him to contact me. I think that proves it is love. Love doesn’t go away, or disappear within 24 hours just because the assclown wakes up and decides he doesn’t want to love us anymore. If that was possible for me, I would have done it a long time ago to put myself out of my misery. I was dumped on my ass plain and simple, and it is the worst experience of my life. But I am beginning to see, after blaming myself, that it is not about me. I have longed for him to return, which I am now seeing is not what I really should want or desire, but I will always love him, until the day I take my last breath. And my assclown doesn’t deserve to breathe the same air that I breathe. : }
Miserable
I did not mean to offend, I was questioning a long cherished belief of mine,
The EUM I know actually said to me, somewhat gleefully…”you’ve never been dumped before, have you” when he realized I was having a hard time with his habit of emotionally and physically disappearing. Unlike yours my EUM came back a few times, weakly though, never in a satisfying way, never with more than half a foot in.
In all honesty, I think your experience was really awful and I truly wish you well getting though this, The man you encountered seems to me to be a truly class A mindf**ck.
But the fact remains. I question whether what I thought to be love, truly was love, or just a response to his manipulative behavior that created a lot of insecurity in me, and maybe triggered all the old feelings of abandonment I have experienced in my life.
I need to take a hard look at that because I cannot fathom why I would choose to love a clown who was really using me, and playing a silly game with me all along. That is so odd, and not how my choices have typically been.
The more I go NC, the more I question everything I thought was true and real in that relationship, and I think that is a good thing, It is something I want very much to understand so I will never find myself in such an awful position again.
All I was saying is that I might have confused the difficult feelings, drama and confusion with love. I understand you did not have the choice to initiate NC because he did it first. That would be hard, but you can claim your power by working hard to see him for the man he is and working to truly not want that awful version of love ever again.
Honestly, we all have broken hearts here, we all thought that love would somehow triumph over every obstacle, but we are all here because we all need to heal and understand what we have been through…insights from others are one way we do so.
Aphrogirl,
You did not offend! I can see what you are saying. Sounds like your EUM was a classic ahole. I am sorry! From the sounds of it, he totally didn’t care about your feelings at all and did what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. I can relate. And yes, you pinpointed my man exactly, Class A Mind.F., for sure. I totally understand your concern about relating love to issues from your past. I wish you would give yourself some credit! Just know that probably all of us wonder how we could possibly have fallen in love with the jerks that ended up using us. I can’t believe I fell for it either. My whole experience has made me questions my judgement in every area of my life now. I second guess everything for fear of making another wrong decision. I truly hope you are able to identify what happened in your situation, as you deserve to be happy and treated properly. And we just can’t allow ourselves to get our foot into any type of relationship like that again, because I can assure you, I know that I could never survive something like this again. Your feeling were real and genuine no matter what was at the root of them. Yes, we all have broken hearts and need to heal for sure. I appreciate your insight and the thoughts of everyone who has posted. I have also gained a lot of insight from NML’s book. Please keep us posted.
My assclown dumped me on my rear, I walked away, then he sent me two texts, which were generic, saying nothing about wanting me back, missing me, loving me, etc., so I didn’t even bother to respond. He has made no attempt to talk to me for going on 4 months. Since that is my experience, and you experienced the EUM coming back, I was just wondering do you think it is harder on us if the EUM comes back and acts like he wants to salvage things, then we have to decide whether or not to maintain no contact? Or do you think it is harder if the EUM cuts off contact with us cold turkey, no explanation and never contacts us again? I was just wondering what you thought or if anyone else wants to comment. I think they are both equally terrible. Like I said, part of me wants him to make contact with me so I can regain “control” of the situation again, but I am not sure if I would be strong enough to resist his contacts. This is a classic case of “be careful what you pay for”, as it might come true.
Also, I have to see him everyday. Can you or anyone else tell me how two people can “love each other” so much one day, then all of a sudden he just decides one day he is done, that is it? Like tonight, I saw him out again, sitting outside with his wife. He acts like nothing ever happened between us, like he is pretending I am dead. I am hurt beyond belief about this and don’t understand how he can sit there with his wife with no thought of me whatsoever. I don’t see how he could be human to be able to do that? Any thoughts? Hang in there.
Aphrogirl,
HAHAHAHA. That was supposed to read “be careful what you PRAY for”, not PAY for… HAHAHAHA! That is hilarious, and that would sure complicate things for sure – if we paid for the treatment the assclowns gave us. HAHA! Well, I guess I did in all reality. I have known mine for 6 years and as soon as we got together he started asking me to borrow money, which I eagerly gave him all my personal stash without question, so I guess in reality, I DID PAY! HAHA.
Miserable Love, I haven’t gotten the book. I am on about day 10 of NC and he won’t leave me alone. He has now resorted to writing to me via snail mail, professing his undying love for me and actually apologizing for the first time ever. And, he is not a writer either. Next thing, he will leave notes on my car at work, I know. All that, and he lives 80 miles away. This is just ridiculous, and I am really, really struggling with it all. Fortunately I am moving in a couple of weeks, so he won’t be able to find me at all.
This has just been so tough, and I am hanging in there, but I know that I am trying not to keep dredging it all up again for myself because it is hard enough as it is. For once in my life, I can’t get rid of the feeling that we belong together, and I have never felt that way about anyone before…I always knew. But, despite that, I am keeping the NC rule. I just crave the day that I will finally feel free of that.
For those who haven’t read my whole story, I broke it off with him, for the record, because I got sick of him lavishing his “love” on me, but then chatting with girls on dating sites and myspace, and refusing to get into an “R” as he called it, with me.
Kori,
Well I recommend the book, it has helped me immensely. Has he done almost every kind of contact except try to see you face to face? Seems to me if he really wanted you, he would be “finding” you and sitting on your doorstep insisting to see you. Sounds like he doesn’t want to make the full effort. Try to let his decision to “write” you mislead you to think he is “stepping out” and doing something different. I am glad you are moving. That will help! I know this is hard. And I know what it feels like to have the feeling that you are meant to be together. I too keep feeling in my heart and soul that mine and my EUM’s lives aren’t through with each other yet, like it really isn’t over. If it is meant to be, it will be. Also, he will keep persisting. Mine has not persisted. Just be sure you are comfortable with all your decisions: what you have put up with, how you have been treated, how many times he has broke it off, of you have broke it off, or gone back to him with promises to change. You have to be comfortable in your mind that this is really over. If he was committed to you, he would have no desire to be chatting with other girls and doing things with them he wouldn’t do with you. Keep us posted.
I know, and that is why I have to keep up the NC. I even just deleted my email address, and set up a new one, so as to completely avoid him. If he REALLY wants to be with me, he will do ANYTHING in his power to be there, IN PERSON. And he hasn’t. He is too much of a coward, and I don’t need that You nailed it on the head by saying that he was trying to make it look like he was going the extra mile by “stepping out” and doing something different. He even said in his letter that he hadn’t written a letter to anyone in 20 years. Like that makes any difference to me, because he can’t have his actions match his “professions” so it doesn’t say anything to me. I don’t have any faith in that anyway.
The reason I don’t want to read the book is because it already hurts beyond belief, and that will only dredge up more. I have been suffering and on the brink of suicide since December of last year, all over him. I just need to heal myself and get back to that happy place that I used to be in. Without his BS and lines.
Kori,
I totally understand! You are doing the right thing and taking the necessary steps. I waited for the one month mark and sledge hammered the go phone I carried just for “us”. I also had to change my e-mail notification setting because the sound reminded me of him. I can’t really change my e-mail because I use it for work, but he hasn’t even tried to contact me there or anywhere, so I haven’t had to worry about it. I agree if they really wanted to be with us, they would be with us tired,rain, shine, busy, etc. And they would do anything, as we have done many times, neglecting our responsibilities to accomodate seeing them. It makes me sick to know how much time I have wasted. Your EUM is just trying to make himself look like he is trying, all the while depleting every form of communication options, except for the most important one, seeing us in person. Because, hell, that actually takes a little effort!!!! the assholes. : } Yes, I must admit the book has helped me, but it has also hit home really hard on a few items. My situation doesn’t really fit into all the aspects of the book completely, but it has been good for the purposes of seeing that I am better off without him, but I sure the heck don’t need to feel any more stupid that I already do, I just don’t need that right now. I know you have been suffering and I can’t say that I actually imagined suicide, but I was on the brink of thinking about it to the point that it just hurt too much to breathe and I had “given up” on everything that meant anything to me and given up on myself. I lost my will to live for sure. I wouldn’t give the asshole the satisfaction. The best you can do is show him you are better off without him, and you will be stronger for it. I have had a lot more “peace” in my life since January when he “cut me off”. He was horrible and he had a different drama everyday and we could never resolve one issue before he threw out another issue. They had compounded since November, and I actually had to make a list of issues to talk to him about, but he would never “see me” in person to talk about those things, he always had excuses. I have heard it all from him, some lies I just laughed they were so BAD. He hadn’t seen me for two weeks before Christmas and I was out running errands Christmas Eve afternoon and he texted me and I asked him to “run errands” and meet me for just a second so I could see him and he had a million excuses. Coming from him about the wife he said he couldn’t stand, he actually told me he couldn’t come because he was helping her “bake Christmas cookies”. I was so devastated and pissed. I never turned down a chance to see him, not once. You just need to focus on healing yourself. No man is worth what you are going through and we both need to find ourselves again. Take some time to yourself, do something relaxing and that you enjoy. God, I have found it hard to even smile at times, because my thoughts always went back to him. It will take time, lots of it. But, you will be better for it. WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS!
By the way, all he did was ever take take take. Looking back, the couple times we met at some hole in the wall diner for breakfast, he said he didn’t have any money, I always had to pay. He never bought me ANYTHING! Never a card, nor ever wrote a note, nothing to remember him by, nothing. He never bought me anything/food/etc. The stories I could tell you. When I went on vacation, I wrote him a note for every day I would be gone. I got nothing. I gave him a card on his birthday and a momento of something only we would know what it meant. I paid for his food, brought him food, stopped and got his favorite drinks, etc. I got squat. He didn’t want to invest anything in me, just wanted me to pay his way, and lend him money. I turned into a school girl with no brains. What the hell was wrong with me??? But oh my, he was the sexiest man I have ever met, he was strong, pushy, took what he wanted when he wanted, and it was refreshing, something I haven’t had in a long time. I still want him!! But even though I want him, I know he is a terrible person, and I can’t give him my soul, my pride, and my self-esteem, I just won’t do it.
Thats what sucks. He really was the most amazing man, and he didn’t ignore me or anything, he just wouldn’t commit, and wouldn’t stop chatting with other girls, and even going on a couple dates (one which he actually admitted to me before he went) and all that stuff. But he would text me all the time, and we would have the most fun and most amazing time sending pics and messages to each other.
I spent every holiday with him since September of last year, except for New Years….around the time I had broken it off with him in December, he started seeing the girl before me, and he was with her that night and the next two days. Funny I didn’t even know about her until she emailed me two weeks later and said “I just wanted to let you know I am out of the picture now.” That set the whole thing off again. I know his entire family, I am VERY close with his kids, I even had pictures of his ex-wife and me together (I deleted any pics even remotely related to him now).
He had given me flowers, and thoughtful gifts, even a free washer and dryer from a client of his, and a tv that he got at a yard sale for a really good deal.
This guy was so incredibly involved in my life, telling me he loved me (only said it out loud once, and I didn’t think I heard him right so I pretended I was asleep). That happens to be the last weekend he would have sex with me…funny…
It breaks my heart because I miss EVERYTHING we did, and I can’t even begin doing what I love to do, because it reminds me of him. We made grocery store trips fun with goofy traditions – it is even hard to get groceries now.
This freaking sucks. And I have never had to break it off with someone I was in love with before. I truly still feel like I am at square one, and that I haven’t even budged yet. I thought FOR SURE it would start to get easier, but after 2 months of not seeing him, it is not even ONE bit easier. And I am a survivor. But this one defies the odds.
I am at a loss and I need SO BAD to feel better. And I am not doing a good job of it.
kori,
wow! I can see where he was a much nicer man than my asshole. I can also see why you are having a hard time! It sounds like he wasn’t a mean asshole, but just wasn’t ready to commit. But that is still a problem. However, it sounds like he didn’t ignore you and spent quality time with you, etc. It sounds like he treated you pretty well, gifts, etc. It is unfortunate that he brought you into his family and with his children before he was sure you were a potential life partner, that just makes it difficult for everyone. He was in almost every aspect of your life, even the grocery store. I understand. My EUM would ride bikes with me and our kids to school some days, and I can’t even be up at the school without thinking of him and worrying if I will run into him. I have since rode with my kids alone and passed him with his kids, not saying a word. It was so hard for me. It wasn’t easier after 2 months for me either. I was a mess. After the first month, it becomes clear that they can live without us, after the 2nd month, it is more a less a panic phase and realization that our dreams with these assclowns are destroyed. You are a survivor and YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB! It just doesn’t feel like it. If nothing else, he will respect you for standing up for yourself. I wish I hadn’t have been robbed of that myself. You need to stay busy and force yourself to focus. I still miss my EUM so much, even after just having found out by looking at a free court records website that he has been married more times than he told me. He had another wife prior the one he has now, which he failed to tell me about. So, he is on his third wife that I know of, maybe more. And numerous small claims court judgements for debt that he didn’t pay back. He is pathetic, but I still miss him. : { I will always miss him and love him. He will be my forever. But we just have to accept it and that it is gone and move on and cherish the memories we had, and always love them forever. We are better people than they will ever be. They are the ones who toyed with our lives, hearts, and minds. If he wants to play the field and not commit, and you do, and he doesn’t know by now if you are the love of his life, it is time to move on. You will find someone better who wants you.
Miserable Love – you really do deserve more. You really do. I know I don’t have to say the obvious, and I am not judging you, but I can’t imagine the sharing part, and all the lies he had to tell you.
I know I didn’t have that. I just had a lot of secrets that he had from me, yet an even bigger abundance of expressions of feelings from him. He just kept not committing, yet getting upset when he THOUGHT I was dating someone. He never got possessive, he just seemed to live life by a double standard. I am not forgetting the bad, I just know FOR SURE that I can’t go back to that. And he doesn’t think I’m serious, I know.
I think he really does love me. But what he doesn’t understand is that love isn’t enough. If he wants ANYTHING to do with me, he needs to do what I NEED too. That is what makes it so hard. We shared SO MUCH in EVERY aspect of life together, we called everything our “adventures.” But I can’t, JUST CAN’T go back to “sharing” him. And if he can’t respect that, I can do nothing about it but stay as far away as possible.
The hardest part is seeing stupid commercials on tv, or hearing a word, or driving past a building, or…yeah…even going to the grocery store, that send me spinning into a crying fit. Because that is how much he infiltrated my life. And I miss him so terribly, because I can’t go anywhere without seeing a car like his, or hearing somebody’s name that is the same. Or seeing a stupid commercial for a metal detector – THAT is wierd, and downright torture, because we always went detecting together.
I can’t even see a gravestone without crying, because we both love cemetaries – the older the better. Or an old farm that we got special permission to explore. Or the mountains that are all around me that we spent hours and hours and hours exploring. Or take a picture, which sucks, because photography is a HUGE hobby of both of ours. I can’t even listen to music anymore, because we are both CRAZY about music. I can’t even go on Youtube anymore because him and I spent SO MUCH TIME on Youtube together.
This just SUCKS. And, I guess I am venting. I don’t know what to do when I love someone so much, but they would not commit. And, he has always put in that little “dig” to lure me back every time I tried to leave. And he still is. And he has lied to me. And he has drug me back in more times than I care to say. And all the games and guilt trips. It is just not a good time right now for me, and I just NEED to get back to good.
Yes, I am down, VERY down, but at least I know what I need to do. I just need to somehow get back to my former, goofy, happy self again. And so far, no dice.
I hope if ANYTHING, someone can be helped by my experience. Because even the perfect man for you can do this to you. And I don’t want ANYONE to go through what I went through, and am still going through. I honestly am at a point where I don’t think I can ever fully give myself to someone again. I hope I am wrong, but only time will tell.
Just please, PLEASE hang in there. It wasn’t meant to be for you, and you sound like a really nice person. Keep yourself busy, because love happens when you LEAST expect it.
Kori,
Your story is my story. The nicest man just wouldn’t commit … really there are no words to describe how this feels. And surely many of us here has been there.
I think the ‘nice kind’ of EUM really is the worst kind, as they give you so much hope … and those few words that reel you in until you’re so tired of it all, your heart just can’t do it anymore.
I suppose we just have to kep plodding on … it just going to take a lot tof time and effort to find ourselves again.
All the best x
Kori, Eliz
Your story is mine as well. This makes it so hard because all the good times and gifts and lovey texts….he was never mean to me, he just didn’t want a girlfriend. He has his harem of women that he calls friends, and had the balls to tell me I was number 1?? Who says that? As I told miserable love, I finally came to a place in my head that says time to move on. There are plenty of men out there that are great guys that do want to commit. The thing that I always thought about after we broke up, but he wanted to continue being friends was, will he ever change? Will he always need his haram and attention from other women. The answer is yes. He will. I have to feel the hurt and know it was caused by him. I hate him for hurting me this way so why should I stay a part of his life. Good luck to all. I will keep you posted on my NC which just started yesterday!
Devastated,
I’m so sorry for your hurting. These situations are really the worst case scenarios, I must say I have never been through anything quite like it in my life. Break-ups are difficult as it is what with having to cope with the fallout of being with an EUM. The push and pull of the nice times, wanting them back … it’s really so painful. For example, we went on holiday in northern France in July last year (one of my best holidays ever) and I am dreading July this year for precisely this reason. I worry the wonderful memories will come flooding back ..
I suppose in a way my EUM was/is a bit peculiar, perhaps he has his harem but he didn’t seem too inclined that way. I never noticed anything at all, he seemed very faithful. If he was playing away behind my back he must have been extremely discreet. Overall, he was/is an absolutely wonderful chap, but for the life of him, he cannot commit. His mother rejected emotionally him after his father’s death when he was quite young, and soon enough a new man was on the scene. Personally I do believe this was what messed him up, probably for all time. For me it’s important to know the emotional origin (or what would seem to be the origin) of his seemingly erratic behavior. It makes me feel better as it is so easy to blame onself. He has however apologised for the hurt he caused me and stated it was not my fault. But then of course, the pain is still there anyway.
Well, I have let him go now and he (surprise, surprise) still wants a foot in the door. I won’t let him because that just means that I will never, ever heal. As much as I love him I can’t do that to myself, to be him friend will be so false and as much as he wants to, it simply will not happen. If I take the lack of commitment and fear of continuous closeness (he wanted to live alone) hands down he’s the best and kindest man I have ever had a relationship with, spoliing me all the time. BUT as it won’t happen I will just have to live with it, and I am not even thinking of starting up something new. I will give myself lots of time to heal and take proper care of my feelings.
I wish everyone here loads of strength and courage to move on and find happier times.
All the Best x
Kori,
I know that you are suffering. And, I don’t know how long you have been with this EUM, but it sounds like he wants his cake and eat it too. Classic case. If he is sharing all these things with you, then committing only to you to be faithful to you should not be a problem for him. The double standard is unacceptable. You have a plan and know what you need to do, stay the course. It is time for you. I don’t think I will be able to trust my own judgement ever again, I am second guessing even basic decisions for fear of being taken advantage of or used again.
Eliz,
I think you are right, the “nice” EUM would be much hard to walk away from. Sounds like you have come to realize your situation and know what you need to do. Hang in there. They can’t keep a foot in the door, a clean break is the only way to healing.
Devastated,
Telling you you are Number 1 is an insult to your face. You cannot tolerate that lack of care. You have more pride and self worth than that. He is a jerk!
I guess the worst part is that he has completely destroyed EVERYTHING that is me. Photography, the mountains, old buildings, cemetaries, hiking, all that “old stuff” that we both love so much…the same music (we are both HUGE lovers of music), kids, certain restaurants…and SO MUCH MORE. He has completely destroyed ALL those things that I love SO MUCH and that MAKE ME who I am…I can’t even take a drive in the country anymore, without thinking of him. Now, I am left with nothing, and having to leave all those things behind that make me, ME.
That is the hardest part of all this. Having to start all over again, as if I were just born. Trying to find new things to be interested in, that I already know I am not interested in. All because of this one man that I will love til the day I die.
I have felt that helplessness before, that sense of loss, that “need” for someone, so deep I thought it would never go away. But I always knew in the back of my head it was a new chapter, and that I would get through it. This time, I can’t feel that, I can’t see it, I can’t sense it.
I know he will get in contact with me again. And I am honestly very afraid, because I will end up in the hospital, unable to cope with life in general when he does. I know that sounds extreme, but that is how bad this guy has infiltrated my life, and I am a very sane person, but this is SO MUCH bigger than me. And I have never felt so utterly hopeless, and it JUST WON’T GO AWAY.
Kori,
There were a lot of things I thought i had in common with my EUM. But you know what–there are a million other people who also like photography, mountains, kids, hiking, cemetaries, etc. So it’s helpful to look at things like that–there are other people, other men who like the same things you like. Otherwise why would there be so many cameras for god’s sake or music downloads. I think the thing with EUM’s is part of their game is to make you feel like no one understand you like they do–no one has as much in common, etc. But that’s BS–I mean the restaurants you went to together–don’t other people eat there also? I don’t think you need to find new things to be interested in–you just need to get back to why these things are important to you–how they make you happy–not because of the EUM, but perhaps in spite of him.
BTW, I also think of my xEUM at times–but I like to have intellectual conversations and have silly banter in e-mails before him. And there are times when I find something that I think, damn, I’d like to share this with him–then I think of all the lies he told and then I think he might have just acted like he liked this for me. So whatever we did share is a) not really clear because of his lies and b) something I still share with friends, family and hopefully, a EAM when that time is right.
It’s important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater or confuse the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.
Help! I have been having a really hard time the last couple days. We have been out doing a bunch of yard work, putting up our pool for the summer, etc, bringing in grass, flowers, etc. and I have caught the assclown “watching†me. He either watches me out the side of his eyes or even has been “looking†at me full on! Of course, I am not looking at him, I just see him out of my side view or act like I am turning my head to look at something else so he doesn’t see me “staring†at him. It just kills me. He is expressionless and I have no idea what he is thinking. I want to think he is missing me. Part of the problem is that I have to go out of my way to get into his view, as he doesn’t leave his chair in the garage, such as going to the edge of my yard, my mailbox, walk across the street to my neighbors house, etc. He never strains to look at me. I am having a hard time breaking the habit of “making myself out thereâ€. I just wish I knew what he was thinking, but since he hasn’t contacted me in 4 months, I guess he probably isn’t even thinking about me. Part of me holds hope inside that he feels something when he sees me. I will never know. I have really stopped “making myself out there†as much, but have a hard time not peeking over the neighbors car to see if his legs are hanging out his garage to know if he is out there. Like I said he is a weirdo, he doesn’t work, and he sits in his garage 24/7 pretty much. If he is out, I tend to “do extra things to get him to notice me†like water the flowers, walk across the street, play with the kids, look at my grass, etc. It gives me comfort to see him sitting out there, but I feel pathetic. I am not getting any results from him, no contact, nothing, so I am tired of doing it and tired of being his eye candy, because that is all that I feel I am. He is probably getting his willies just watching me, knowing that he treated me like crap!!!!! I feel so weak! Part of me wants to stay completely out of his sight as much as possible, part of me wants him to see me and see how happy I am and how good things are going for me, but I feel he probably doesn’t really care. What should I do???? What would get “results†from him: staying out of his line of sight, not letting him see me, or see me happy and doing my own thing, as long as it doesn’t look obvious that I am trying to get him to notice me? Like I said before, I am afraid out of sight is out of mind for him, and that in sight should be in mind, but since he is a selfish asshole, I don’t think anything I am doing is helping improve the situation, and I am frustrated that when he sees me, he doesn’t miss me. Any suggestions?
Kori,
I felt the same way. My assclown and I didn’t do that much together, because he wouldn’t see me, but did infiltrate certain places, etc. He literally destroyed ME. There are many farms, cemeteries, restaurants, etc. that I would avoid if at all possible, but I would find new farms, cemeteries, restaurants, etc. My EUM and I spent some time at a park and I sometimes go back there just to sit on the same bench we did and think. I feel close to him there and find myself smiling at our memories. You will get there. I have had a lot of tragedies in my life, but the sense of loss I have felt over this man. I can’t even begin to explain the loss, like your soul is shattered.
I have felt exactly the same, hopelessness, that the grief is so much bigger than me, that the pain will never go away. Well the pain still has not gone away, but I am slowly regaining the hope. Without hope, we can’t live. I am fighting the grief on a daily basis. And I am proud of myself for how I have handled my end of the relationship and how far I have come, and so will you be. Hadhumorwithoutjoy was right. Don’t LET this creep take away your JOY. If you like mexican food, keep eating at a mexican restaurant. Keep taking pictures. Keep hiking. Be thankful for the time you had together and the memories and even smile about the reminders, but move on and make more memories with someone who deserves you. Don’t give the asshold the POWER to steal what you have left.
God it feels so good to see that there are so many women going through the same thing…and this article has really opened my eyes.I started NC 2 weeks ago…well he started it by finally leting me know his decision( he kept me wondering for the past 4 months and a half after we broke up in December…because he just didn`t know if we should get back together or not, he wasn`t sure..he was too scared that things wouldn`t go well bla bla).I forget to mention that we had been together for almost 2 years before he broke up with me in december(right before Christmas…greaft holiday gift).So for the past 4-5 months we`ve been in the middle…or I don`t even know how to call it cause i still can`t believe that the man..better say boy I loved for 2 years acted like that, and all of the sudden we starts acting weird and in week…bam…he makes his decision…and starts telling me that what he want is not the same with what I want and it`s over and all those stuff….And I`m left broken again and wondering what the hell happend…plus ashamed and feeling stupid that I waited for him all this time and was patient and tried to understand how he felt…God…and after reading this and all your comments..I really feel better ….even though is hard not talking to him at all after all this time…And I still think at him and love him..and a part of me still wants him back.And the worst part is that he wasn`t all the time a jacka**…and we have great memories …and he was my first love..But I just gotta open my eyes and know that I`m not alone and that others have experienced the same and you`ve showed me that better thing will happen to me…If I`m brave enough to let go.After all I`m just 18 years old…and maybe it sounds stupid but i really loved him…but I guess that wasn`t enough.Anyway I’m glad to see all these powerful women who got rid of the bad in their lifes…and I hope to become one too 🙂
Sometimes is just better to forget what you feel and remember what you deserve
Miserable love…URGH! I was dumped by the disappearing act…four months ago…and I have no way of seeing him – which is awful. No closure. No contact. My imagination runninng wild of what he is doing, what he was thinking when he was with me…is he laughing about me…or whatever. The same thoughts and feelings you have but it is not in front of me every day. You are constantly reminded of your ‘situation’ because it is ‘in your face’. I do not know what is worse…but closure is important. I have to finalize closure in my own head…and that is what you will have to do too. My advice to you is to get the hec out of the house…change your routine…fill your life with new things…work on your life and eventually you will feel better…but unfortunately, I really do not think it will ever truly go away.
I love this site…but wish there was a way to send personal messages to each other…
Kori and Eliz,
Even though our stories are different, you are right…the nicer the guy is, the harder you are able to let go…Because all those memories, proves of love and messages and all those times spent together make it so hard to move on ….And I often wonder where did that man go?what happened with him?Was it all in my head?And I can`t stop thinking about it..the man that I loved for 2 years …and that loved me back…and all of the sudden decided he didn`t love me anymore…wow it sounds so pathetic now that I`m writing it…
Just wanted to tell you….to all of you..you are really strong 🙂
kimba,
Yes, I just don’t and probably never will understand how a guy can just “stop talking” to you, no reason, no remorse, no care for your feelings. It is the worse feeling, I would rather he just said, Hey, I don’t love you anymore (since yesterday!), or something, it would be easier to move on. A couple of us have started emailing each other directly on a daily basis, so if you are interested, let me know and we can determine the best way to share our email. Some just post it on here, but it is your decision.
Anyway, I would much rather not have to see him at all, I could deal with it a lot better, especially since he started cavorting with the woman across the street within a week of not talking to me anymore. I am devastated. It has been 4 months for me too. He was my everything. He loved me the day before. He didn’t treat me well, and I think when I stood up for myself and told him his treatment of me was unacceptable, he didn’t like it. He wants a woman who is mute, has no brain, no thoughts, no opinion, and lets him do all the talking. That is NOT ME. : } Sorry asshole!!! There is no person more a coward than one who is in a relationship with you and cuts you off with nothing. Every time he got upset about things, he cut me off a few days here or there, then came the last fight, he cut me off. I even texted him and said, Hey if you want me to leave you alone and stop texting you, just feel free to TELL me, that is the very least you can do as a courtesy to me. NOTHING! So when I went down to talk to him so he could just lay it out to my face, he said he had too much “shit” going on to worry about me…. I turned around and walked off and that was the last we have spoken face to face. I was absolutely devastated, my soul was destroyed. Long story. Be glad you don’t have to see him every day or with another woman all the time. It is a daily struggle for me. We ALL have to remain strong.
Kimba,
Oh I forgot to add that the married assclown pursued me for 4 years, which I guess wasn’t enough time for him to figure out that he really wanted me, then after trying to ruin my life, and my marriage, and my family, he decides to just “cut me off” with no explanation. That is just excellent! : {{{{
Miserable Love…We have a great deal in common except I am not and my assclown was not married…send me your email address if you are comfortable with it…I have some insight for you…
kimba,
Is there another site you have access to that I can contact you through that instead of posting my email address here? I would love to get in contact with you as, just didn’t really want to post my email address here. ????
Hi, if you want me to get in touch with kimba, I can arrange for you to exchange addresses if you are both in agreement?
Ladies, if you are struggling with no contact or understanding if he’ll get in touch with you, consider attending the No Contact Rule web seminar.
NML,
Yes, I would appreciate the arrangement to exchange addresses with Kimba. I believe she will approve as well. Thank to you!
My ex from 2 years ago would contact me in 2-3 month intervals. Usually around the Holidays.
We reconciled several times after the big break up in 2007. He would call, profess to change, I’d believe it, we go back to dating and within a few weeks – SOS.
At one point – he had called me very upset – crying that he wanted to reconcile and that the reasons we couldn’t be together he would fix. It was always something. I was going to give notice at my place and leave. But before I left my rent controlled apartment I called him. He’d been mysteriously absent for 2 days. I knew something was up. He realized I’m sure that he wasn’t sincere about getting married and he was only saying that to continue the weekend sex.
When I called him, the news was what I expected. We can’t get married now. I was livid. I felt like the top of my head was going to blow off! I pulled over on the side of the road and let him have it. It was more for me than him. That phone call and the seething anger behind it drained me for weeks. I was really depressed, sad big time.
He tried two more times to contact me a few months later. Everytime I saw his number on my caller ID I would get upset and remember all the tacky things I allowed him to do to me. I changed my number. Now he can’t contact me and he wouldn’t have the cahones to come to my house. He’d never do that. That alone allowed me to have closure.
In the last 2 years I’ve had 2 boyfriends that didn’t last long. Once we started dating the “real” them have surfaced and I dumped them. I told them I was breaking it off with him. One has tried to contact me via Twitter and I blocked him. I have no desire to talk to him.
Fast forward to 2009. 99% of the time I’m a pretty happy person, but every once in a while I have a mini-meltdown (in the privacy of my place) but I quickly get past it.
I know I deserve a good man and I’m totally OK with my life, 99% of the time. I live my life as well and full as I can. I’m socially active, and have lots of hobbies and a few good friends.
Once I handed the steering wheel over to God, I feel much better.
This is a fact : men will only do as much as we(women) allow them to do to us…
That had been said; The NC rule is not good enough, we need to be able to look the assclown in their eyes and say NO!!!! because we are all better than that. If he has an ego i can have a bigger ego. We need to value ourselves and start having a little bit of pride here… Why not be polite and be able to say: Do you know something?*us* was a big mistake..
I work with my EUM so no contact is not a possibility. He left me for a girl who also work with us, so i went through all the stages of their relationship, the sparkles in the air, that i could just see on her face every day.Just like me, she fell right in love with him. But he never stopped trying to sleep with me, so i had nothing to do but smile at him and say,NO!!!! And now nine months later he coming really strong at me and I still love him( slow!! i know.. we work together).
It takes a huge amount of strength to be able to say no to the man that you long so much to be with, but at the end you will be proud of yourself, to know that if he didn’t want you, at least he will respect you.
valentine
I too work with my a**clown. I do still love him and it is so hard to see him everyday. Each morning I wake up and say today is the day I will take control. Then I see him and I fall apart. I need to do this! I cannot stand this feeling anymore! How long did it take you to get to the point you are at?
Valentine,
WOW! You are so strong! I don’t work with my AC, he is my neighbor and after cutting me off and “disappearing”, he immediately took up with the neighbor lady across the street. I don’t know how you made it through having to watch them at work together, because it is killer for me to have to see them cavorting in front of my eyes. You are exactly right, we need to exhibit PRIDE. And if it kills us, if we have to FAKE it, if we have to hold our head high behind a pair of dark sunglasses so they can’t see the tears in our eyes, WE HAVE TO DO IT – for US. That is the only way at the end of the day we will be able to maintain our pride and dignity. I have had a very hard time with that, but I will never let them see me gawking, looking, and I will act like I am living my own life unconcerned about their relationship.
Please share more about how you have dealt with this. I know Devastated can relate to your story and we would all benefit from knowing how you handled your situation and acted when having to see your AC with another woman…
That is one thing I wish I had – the opportunity to prove my strength to my AC. I wish he would contact me and try to make amends, at the very least say he is sorry, then I could show my strength and have the upper hand that he took away from me when he decided to “cut me” off with no explanation.
Miserable Love,
I think you need to ask yourself why it is so important to prove your strength to this man, you need to be making the effort for yourself and your family. I believe it’s been five months since the breakup-out of a seven month relationship-and it seems you are really struggling and prolonging a move on to a better place (I know we all heal differently). I would recommend you go back and read NML’s three part series on validation and see if this may give you clearer insight.
I believe I asked in an earlier post if you had sought out any professional counseling to try to move on from this situation?
Gayle,
I am actually doing a lot better and I am not prolonging movement to a better place. I am day by day getting back to a better place for ME and things are going well with my family. They are two separate issues. And thanks, I have read and continue to re-read the series on validation.
For me, it is important to prove my strength and have the ability to make my own decisions, because that is the type of person I was before Assclown took away these things. I was left feeling violated as a human being. Much more to the story than what has been posted. He “decided” for me, my future, and my life, what was going to “be”. If you have ever been kicked to the curb, you will know what I am talking about. He is a coward and took the easy road out by “disappearing”, but in the end, even though he texted me two additional times and I did not respond, I am the one feeling rejected. Everyone wants to feel valued and important. When something like this happens and from someone you truly love, it rocks your world, every fiber of your being. You look at what happened and think how can I be reduced to this by someone?? How could I have let him do that to me?? If he contacted me, at least I would have the control back. Now, I don’t think that is ever going to happen, I don’t think he will contact me. So the only thing I can do is what i have been doing, hold my head high, focus on my family, etc. You just can’t help but wonder what he thinks when he stares because it makes me feel dreadful again, like he is sitting there thinking “haha, I tossed her ass to the curb.” I just wish things had ended differently. I really wish I wasn’t left the one feeling unworthy and rejected. I think it would have been 100 times easier if I had dumped him, and I would not have dumped him the way he did me, I am not that type of cruel person. Every day I am working on building back up who I am, my self-esteem, my worthiness, etc.
Gayle,
How long have you been recovering from your EUM relationship?? Were you the dumpee or the dumped? Where can I read your story??
Miserable Love,
Yes. It does do a lot to our self esteem. I also had my heart broken by not only a ‘good friend’ but also my first love. The thing that concerns me is your need to prove anything to this individual-have read many of your posts and know what a loser he is-I think the proof has to be for yourself, and only yourself. By needing to validate ourselves to these men is only prolonging our recovery and allowing them to be in control. I think you need to recognize your participation in this, he didn’t decide what your future and life were going to be, you did. I believe when we recognize our part in this nonsense it helps us move on.
it’s not important that this man is staring at you, please just ignore it and let it go.
You can’t change the past and all that has happened with this man, all you can do is learn and move on from this experience. It’s up to you to take your life back, not him.
Miserable Love,
Happily I can say I have fully recovered from that stupid ass:) I guess it’s been about a year.
Initially he broke it off b/c he couldn’t incorporate me into his family (ex-wife and adult kids)-I look back at it now and can laugh at how ridiculous the whole thing was. When he returned several months later to be ‘friends’ it became even more difficult. I was now priority #2793 and was squeezed in for a monthly get-together (no sex). I was still in love with man and he kept telling me he loved me and that we were working towards a relationship-many excuses why he couldn’t commit yet. I got fed up after a couple of months and ended it. He made contact once by e-mail for which I did not respond, I haven’t looked back since.
These men are toxic, it’s good to now that I now have the knowledge -through the site-to steer clear of them.
Gayle: My situation was a lot like yours that you described. I used to tell my ex that I was 8th on the list, below the family dog. He laughed and said it wasn’t true but I know it was. I realize now that I was only weekend sex to him.
This blog is a godsend. I love it. I can’t remember now how I found this blog but I guess it doesn’t matter. After reading the many posts on this message board it’s comforting to know there are others who were in my same situation.
Going forward I don’t leap into anything anymore, friends or lovers. I take my time to get to know someone and see if they’re really into me or just using me as the flavor of the month club.
Janet,
I hear you, Sister!!!!
Did he have an unusual involvement with the ex as well?
Gayle: when we first started dating, they would have breakfast 2 or 3x’s a week (he paid of course) as she was perpetually poor. They had been divorced 3 years when I met him. All of her utility bills were in his name and the lease to her apartment. He also gave her 3K down to buy a new car. Even on a 4th of July celebration he invited her. She stayed the entire day and cast a pall on the party. I still to this day think they were still boinking each other while we were dating. (and yes I did have an STD test after we broke up).
Another woman in his harem (an ex g/f) he loaned her 6K to get out of jail. Now mind you he couldn’t afford to buy me a ring and marry me but he had the money to pay her bail.
Another neighbor (he called a friend) was overly chummy to him. She would come over during the day and they’d hang out and have a beer. One day I came by on a Sunday morning. For some reason he asked me to call before I came over. Very unusual. Well I did. When I got there (the neighbor) was sitting on the back of his truck with a S*** eating grin on her face as if to say I just boinked your b/f and you can’t do nothing about it as you can’t prove it. That particular neighbor tried to contact me for a long time after we broke up. I finally had to block her email address as she kept sending me emails.
I remember the next day I kept crying. My body was trying to tell me something. I just know that they had just had sex before I came over. He was sheepish and skittish with me the entire day.
He was a short bald man who was very insecure. Now that I look back on it, I can’t understand what I saw in him. He was a mama’s boy as well. He had a very sick twisted relationship with mom. Once I realized how whacked that whole situation was I got out.
Gayle – for me the only answer is to not have sex with a man in the initial stages of dating for a long time. I’m prepared to wait until marriage if I have to. Sex changes everything. Had I not slept with him so soon in the game, I would have dumped him a lot sooner.
If that means I have to celibate and keep dates sex-free for a while, so be it.
Janet,
I am so with you on the sex part!
I’m so sorry for this entire nightmare. How horrible!!
The funny thing is is that mine was nothing to look at either. Another repeating theme:multiple ex involvement, questionable relationships with other women,lies, excuses and low self-esteem (their side). They are dangerous, pathetic creatures!!!
Did he pursue when you left??
Miserable love, you wrote: I think it would have been 100 times easier if I had dumped him.
It´s not about who tries to contact who, or who sent the last text.
I dumped my EUM because he nearly drove me insane but it doesnt make me feel less rejected.
Because if I am truly honest with myself I know deep down that I love him more than he loves me. Simple truth. I can conjure up all kinds of theories about him not being able, neing narcisstic etc. And that may all be true but it doesnt change the fact that I still love him more than he loves me.
I think deep down we all know that here. We have to admit defeat.
aww, I dunno bout the L-word truthhurts
I still question the use of the word “love”. I think we “want” them to be in a solid relationship lots more than they want to be in one with us. The want is pretty powerful. I think it hurts a lot to realize they can’t or won’t come through for us and ley us know this in all manner of assclowny ways.
And want can be good, and is something needed by both parties when in love with each other.
But I still think the illogical desire for silly, short, bald, weasly whinin sacks o stuff that treat us disrespectfully might just maybe might be something other than love.
I think you are right aphrogirl, want is a better word for it than love.
Who knows what you feel when you are checking your phone every second, when you feel sick to the stomach when he is out on the town and you know he is eyeing other women. Or when you feel rejected and worthless when he again hasn´t called when he said he would. Who can distinguish love in this whirlwind of emotions? But it sure is a lot of wanting.
Gayle:
I dumped him 3 months after we started dating but like an idiot I let this train wreck last almost 2 years!. We broke up over the same issue 8x’s.
The reason I broke it off with him was that his Mom and Dad lived with him. Not because they were poor, but my X wanted them there. When he asked me to marry him the first time, I said where is Mom and Dad going to live? He said here.
I said I don’t think so. 2nd marriages are hard enough without having an entire entourage in the house! He said Mom and Dad are with me until they die. I said OK, our relationship is dead, bye bye.
Then a few weeks later he’d get horny and lonely, lie and tell me they’re getting their own place and then when it came down to it, his lies came through. Mom and Dad ain’t going anywhere. You and I are going to see each other on the weekends and you’d better be happy with that.
The ex-wife, the mom and dad, the son, the ex g/fs would call all the time. He would take their phone calls while he was with me, whether we were having dinner or out on a date.
This breakup, get back together went on and on for 2 flipping years. I’ve not seen him for over a year. Last Jan 2008 he called me and wanted to have dinner. When I heard the message I wanted to hurl.
My friend told me straight – you can either answer the call and tell him to stop calling and that you’ll issue a restraining order OR change your number and just give the number to close family members and friends.
That’s what I did. In fact my cell phone provider usually charges $15 to do this but due to my story the young CS rep nicely did it for me for free.
This was the first time I’d ever dated a man with a minor child (the kid really liked me, we got along well), an overly intrusive ex and Mommy and Daddy living with him.
Gail – I will NEVER put myself through that again. I’ll die alone first. When I dated him I had HORRIBLE hot flashes all the time. I would cry out of the blue. I would snap at people for no reason. It was my way of taking out the anger at him on other people.
A few months ago I was on a job site and I saw his car with his surfboard on it. I thought ruh roh, not even interested in bumping into him. I took my lunch break early to avoid him, close call.
Not only have I ixnayed him out of my life, but I’ve had to ixnay 2 one-way female friendships I’ve had. I had had a lightbulb moment before I found this blog. No wonder I’ve dated so many EU men. I have almost nothing but EU friends who take take take and never give. Enough!
Now it’s all about me. I’m fabulous dammit and I want people to please ME for a change.
Janet,
Yes! You are fabulous!!!!
I have to say I had to laugh at the lunacy of the parents living within him until their demise. Oh Lord!!!! I think that my ex’s son has now moved in with him-another excuse that he wouldn’t be able to date seriously- something he said would not last long. Ridiculous!!! I wonder if they truly believe this nonsense???
I’m with you, I would rather be alone the rest of my life before getting with another man like this. What did he say about the involvement with the ex? Did you ask why he didn’t go back with her?
I have also made changes in other area of my life. I don’t tolerate bad behavior any longer, it’s not worth the aggravation.
I forgot to add earlier that they have no character, honor or integrity!
Gayle – I’m glad I made you laugh. We’re all fabulous.
Your ex said having his son live there was an excuse. I don’t know if they believe it or not. I think it’s merely an excuse they make up to keep us at bay.
My X told me what he thought I wanted to hear (we’re getting married) in order to get what he wanted (regular nooky).
He said the reason he got divorced is that he never loved her and the only reason he married her was because of their son. He didn’t marry the mom until the son was 5. What a gentleman eh?
When he told me he dated her for 10 years before they got married that should have been sign #1. The first wife dumped him because he treated her like crap and she dumped him. He came home one day from work and her half of the furniture was gone. From that day on she only spoke to him through her attorney’s. She was done. I applaud the woman. She got sick of the situation and moved on.
Between me and the 2nd wife he had had 2 g/f’s (in his own words) that were great women and that he screwed up and lost them.
Once again, I love this blog. The owner of this blog is a no-nonsense woman who has some powerful messages. I have to lot to learn from the posts here and will continue to read them and learn.
Janet,
Believe me, it was laughter in disbelief.
Yes. That’s what I meant about the son. I mean how could he possibly have a committed relationship with his son living under the same roof??? LOL!!!!!
He actually admitted he only told you that he loved you only for sex? What is wrong with these people?? This guy sounds like a sociopath!!!
So, he recognizes he treats women like crap and is responsible for the demise of the relationship? What does he say he is looking for with a woman, only sex?
Gail – no he never told me he was only in it for sex – always told me he loved me – but I know that was bulls***. I do think he loved me just not enough to marry me and make a life with me.
It was more important to make his ex-wife and mom happy than to build a life with me. So that tells me how important I was – which was pretty low on the totem pole.
That is why after that debacle I decided to slow WAY down with everyone – friends and lovers. That was the only way I could take back my power.
If you click on my name and it will direct you to my website so we can talk one on one if you like.
Janet,
Thankfully, it never came to fruition for you.
Did he say why the wife was such a constant in his life? I can relate to the low totem poll analogy: kids, ex, friends and then me. This was phase two of our ‘relationship’ where he could be friends and still receive the adoration, but I have to say that things never felt quite right and that I was always on the periphery of the relationship.
I’m going to try touch base with you tomorrow, I have Finance class to study for 🙁
devastated,
Im sorry for taking so long to reply. I go through phases with my recover and this blog brings me to reality… it’s so painful!!! The answer to your question : It took me a decision, honestly, I decided to be strong… for the first six months I was in hell, but with time things get better. I have got to tell you that it feels wonderful now, to have him trying to be nicest guy around, trying to please me in every way he can, while still dating this other woman…… Not that I think that she has anything to do with what happened( she did not know about us) in fact, I feel sorry for her now.
But I needed it to happen!!!!! for MY OWN EGO STROKE, but as we all know here the fact of him trying to get back together has nothing to do with him realizing that he did not loves her and yes loves me ? He is still trying the chance of having both of us and then be able to choose between us two. I didn’t give this chance to him before, and I never will.
This is definitely the hardest part of the whole process.. all the excitement of having his attention, and have to keep on telling myself that it is just his strategy of getting into my pants.
For sure we have got to be strong!!!!
Miserable love,
I dealt with it in the best way I could, I thing…. She does not know about us I believe, Im a very discrete person, and never told anyone at work that we were seeing each other, but she……..She told everybody that they were together within a few weeks, so I’m always nice and polite to her, I don’t try to be her friend though.
I remember the last talk that I had with my AC over the phone,I Asked him directly; do you still want to be with me? he said yes but he sounded confused, like he wanted me to fight for him. All I said was good luck! She is 22 years old, he is 33, I am 32 years old so maybe it is the fact that she is so much younger that attracted him.
Even though we work together and talk almost every day,the answer to my questions I will never have, we don’t talk about us, there is no us anymore.. and even if we had talked about us I know that everything that he says is ALL BIG LIES.
So don’t bother.. just feel lucky that you will be able to recover sooner than I am.
My ex contacted me out of the blue by text message a few weeks ago, we split up 2 years ago. The first one said he was sorry and that he never meant to hurt me, then he texted me about an hour later to say that he knew that I wouldn’t speak to him but he just wanted to say sorry and that he had dreant that I was pregnant!, then about 10 mins later, he sent another one syaing he understood why I was ignoring him but he just wanted to know how I was! I ignored all messages! Not heard anything since, he also tried to contact me on FB last year but I ignored him. He broke my heart but I found the willpower to do contact him since the day we broke up! Its hard but that dull feeling in your stomach does go xx
This is disturbing but, I know where you are all coming from having seen guys like this. The problem I am having with the relationship I was in is that there was a commitment. We got married and a month later she kicked me out. No explanation, am I supposed to just move on? Life time commitment turns into a month and I’m supposed to just move on.
Helly everyone,
I have just come across this website….and so glad that I have. This is day one of no contact for me!
I have been dating Mr Unavailable for the last four months, and I fell so hard for him :(.
When we first met he took me out to dinner, and was very cagey about his living arrangments and told me I could ‘clasify’ him as single. I didn’t like what he was telling me and red flags went up! Then he wanted to take me away on a holiday, and I said we shouldn’t go because I didn’t think he was being upfront with me. Anyway he convinced me that he really was single.
Then I heard through the grape vine that he was married. I told him I didn’t want to see him again. He swore that he was not married and did not have a girlfriend…. anyway I thought I’d give him the benefit of a doubt.
We would talk every day for hours and hours… he would call me all the time (I hate initiating contact). Anyway we would also see each other once a week…. he was always working and travelling interstate. He would always spend the night when we were together. We went away for the whole weekend together etc. He helped me move and pick out a car…. he was really acting like a bf.
But little things kept bothering me…. like sometimes he would forget his phone somewhere… or his battery would go dead…. or the fact that when I asked him to do something he would always say lets do it later in the week etc. He would always call me when he was driving or at work…. barely ever when he was at home.
So of course after many incidents I began to realise that he was probably lieing to me. I was already working up the courage to confront him when a guy at a pizza shop called me by his apparently ‘ex’ gf’s name…. then all hell broke loose. I confronted him ….he swore he was single…then he said we were just friends anyway so what was I stressing about. This is when I asked him if that is all he saw,…was it just sex for him? He said of course not and that he liked me very much but he hasn’t really thought about it.
We left the subject for a couple of weeks. Then two nights ago I confronted him again…and he said that he liked me and would be proud for me to be his gf but he just can’t make a commitment to anyone right now and wanted things to remain as they were. I told him I could not continue being with him if he wasn’t able to give me at least exclusivity…and guess what he couldn’t say it!! He couldn’t explain to me why is….just that he wasn’t ready and it was complicated??!! I ended it….and cried my eyes out all night.
Yesterday morning he called and said he wanted to remain friends….I wasn’t sure what to do … but we spoke as if nothing had happened. Then he called me another four times!! On the fourth time I had to tell him that I wanted to be friends but only in the future…and that I thought it be best we don’t contact each other so that I have time to move on. He sounded upset but said okay….
I got a message from him in the evening…. ‘Babe I miss you already’…. I wrote back ‘I miss you too’ ….. so now I am dying inside…. it is sooo hard, but I just can’t be with someone who can not make a commitment (and I still suspect he has someone else, a wife or a gf or maybe even his ex gf is still in his life).
🙁 I really hope I am strong enough….but I really want him to contact me and tell me he changed his mind….. and I know inside it will never happen….. I don’t know if I can be strong enough :'( I really care for him..
Well…. it didn’t take him long… I got a text message about an hour ago. All he wrote was ‘babe xx’ ….it killed me but I ignored it. I really felt like writing “I love you, but I love me more. The only reason that we are not together is because you cant give me any sort of commitment…so it’s your issue and your choice…”… but another part of me just wanted to give in and call him and meet him and hug him and kiss him 🙁
Heartbroken,
Stay strong!!!!! Just remember his history.
All the best!
Gayle,
Thank you for your support… I feel disappointed in myself. I was so emotional this morning after having dreams about him all night that I sent him an ‘missing you’ message. As soon as it went I felt terrible for sending it. Of course he hasn’t responded all day… which made me feel even worse. Why is it so hard not to contact him 🙁 I know he is all wrong for me and it’s doomed…. but some sick part of me really yawns for him… Every single minute in the day is consumed of thoughts of him…. and I keep thinking maybe he will realise what he has lost and change…but deep down I know this is just a fairytale 🙁
Heartbroken,
The way I was able to remain in permanent NC was when I realized it was more painful to remain in contact, than not. I saw that I had to get myself back and by continuing to allow this individual to remain in my life was eating away at my self-esteem and self-respect. I said, No More!!!!! I think you really need to see the man for who he is and not who you wish him to be, these men do not change.
People mentally abused and misled by an ex-narcissist really need to stop stomping out the truth regarding these deranged predators. If we made it out of a relationship sane with a narcissist, we are then strong enough to embrace the truth for what it is. We are allowing our selfish desires to hold on to what isn’t meant to be. Why allow our emotions to deminish the truth! Narcissistic people are mentally incapable of being in any type of honest relationship on any level. They aren’t wired to even view you as a person w/feelings, a person w/a heart.
We must stop saying, “I wanted to contact him, it is so hard not respond to his emails,part of me feels this way, part of me feels that way.”
I, too, have been in a long-term relationship with a narcissist. Yes, in the beginning it was challenging to go NC. But I did it w/out ONE attempt to contact him under any circumstances. However, each time I examined my self-worth and then realized this guy was not even WORTHY of my companionship, was enough for me to stay my distance.
Yes, he contacted me sporatically over the course of our breakup. However, I had studied textbook narcissm after the breakup. Therefore, I never fed him the supply he wanted. He never heard, I miss you, I love, I need you, I thought about you, etc.” He never received one random phone call from me. This is what they are hoping for….to strip you of your self-dignity, self-respect. Instead, each time he phoned, I kept feeding him my personal success.
I knew he called for me to react in a tone that was excited to hear from him. Instead, I answered as if he was a salesperson and I had little time to chat. He instantly picked up my tone and tried cutting the conversation as short as possible. Who wants a guy that jumps from pillow to post with any woman that will give him the time of day. If I’m to be angry, it would be how dare this guy think I would ever stoop to wanting him after his callous behavior towards me.
He showed his true colors ONE time, and I’ve been walking solo ever since. One thing he will remember about me is I was the most unique. Not too many women would walk away not needing an explanation, not needing closure. If the truth is there, embrace it and walk away!
Why cry over the demonic. These people are not good for human companionship. Their sole purpose is to destroy and rob you of your heart.
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