A couple of days back in part one, I explained how we can end up seeking validation from the guy after the relationship has ended and spend an awful lot of time expending energy on getting him to understand your perspective, or where they have gone wrong.
Validation and the concept of the other party understanding you are intrinsically tied to each other and if you spend enough time doing this, they’re just two more codewords for analysing, obsessing, and two more actions that mask fear and denial.
You’re seeking validation from someone who by their very nature invalidates you through their actions and the type of the relationship you engage in with them. They’re very good at validating the negatives and that’s because in being with them, you’ve chosen someone that reflects these very things.
You’re seeking understanding from someone who either has no interest in understanding you, or understands you, but not in the way that you would like.
Say what?
Well part of the reason why this is a bit like chasing the holy grail is because your concept of him understanding you and his concept of him understanding you are two very different things.
You want him to understand you because of what you say but actually, the conflict of your actions ensures that he understands something different.
You want him to understand you on your terms thus validating you but if you couldn’t take the horse to water and make him drink all this time, he’s not about to start drinking now.
Seeking validation and understanding from these guys is about gaining control. It can feel ‘unfinished’ when we believe they didn’t get it and so we can end up becoming obsessed with ‘closure’ in the form of the retribution of him realising he was an assclown/wanting you/changing his ways.
You want to have the last word.
As I said in part one, you’re going to be in for a long wait if you’re expecting him to ‘get it’ in the way that you want him to and the worst thing is, the amount of satisfaction that you think you’re going to derive from this is far removed from the reality.
You want to be ‘right’.
Don’t we all…but we have to learn to back away from the ‘bad investment’ and take solace in our own knowledge.
How much crap do you want to put yourself through just so that you can ‘prove’ that you were ‘right’?
Women have long lambasted men for being obsessed with being right but actually, in this situation we are very much guilty of the same thing.
You want to teach him but who says that you’re that person to teach him?
Many women misguidedly believe that they need to raise a man from the ground up and teach him how to be a man and tell him what relationship he should be in. This is why many are obsessed with change (changing him that is…) and why we don’t know when to wash our hands of a ‘bad investment’ and minimise the trauma and the impact. We like to ride the beat up donkey of a relationship till it collapses because we are obsessed with getting the end result (read: happy ending) where they validate us which in turn means we are understood. You’re seeking a return on investment when you’re already in some serious negative equity.
The thing is, if you’re the type of woman that is habitually engaging in poor relationships and trying to extract commitment from men that don’t want to commit, you’re in no position to be ‘teaching’ him.
People don’t learn how to treat you because you talk the ears off them until they suddenly have a lightbulb moment and it’s no different for understanding ‘you’ and ‘getting it’. This is why we keep falling into the trap of suffering with Women Who Talk and Think Too Much syndrome as we look at talking and discussing, and explaining, and revisiting the same subjects again and again as the best way to get men to understand us.
He’ll learn through your actions and by those of who came before and after you.
The best thing that you can do is validate what you have learned about yourself, him, and the relationship by acting on it.
You don’t need him to say ‘you are right’, you don’t need him to apologise, and you don’t him to creep around you saying how full of regret he is.
The validation of what you know about yourself, him, and the relationship comes from you. All of this energy that is yet again being expended in his direction is a waste because very little, if anything, comes from it and you are literally throwing your life away and bringing it to a standstill whilst he’s off leading his merry life in exactly the way that he wants to.
But…when you, for example, end the relationship, and he still continues to show that he’s a complete dipstick by disregarding your wishes to have no contact with him, by talking cheap but following through with no action, by taking up with his next victim whilst still pestering you, by never leaving his wife and instead starting a new affair, or whatever it is, he does actually validate your decision to opt out.
And this is where you have to make a choice:
Do you want to keep seeking validation from men because you place no value on your own opinion, judgement, feelings, or essentially yourself as a whole and instead hope that by extracting understanding and validation, you will in turn get the relationship you want from him and suddenly feel at one with yourself?
Or…do you truly want to live a life where you validate yourself through acceptance and rejection of other people’s behaviour?
Sod the quest for understanding, with the latter option, you set your boundaries, you know your values, you treat yourself with respect and you make a judgement call and act upon it and respect your decision rather than second guessing it and living your life in limbo trying to obsess and analyse everything out to nth degree so that you don’t actually end up doing anything.
People think there is something complex about validation like doing it for ourselves is a mystical feat; it’s not. This is just something else that is tied to building your self-esteem and having boundaries because by learning to accept and reject behaviour, you send signals to your self-esteem that teach you that you are a person of action who has her own trust system that she can always rely on.
When people have boundaries and make decisions that they act upon, they see the fruits of that decision – they’re happier, they see that the person wasn’t worth their energy anyway, they don’t analyse it because their made their judgement in light of their boundaries, core values, only engaging in thing that had a positive impact on their sense of self, rather than depleting it.
At some point you have to let go, accept that things are what they are, see him for what he is, opt out of the crap, and be good to yourself. That, ladies, is true validation and understanding…of yourself.
Your thoughts?
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I’ve been NC for about a month now. I’m starting to realize that my analyzing him and obsessing about him has been a way not to deal with myself. It’s about me now. I’m trying to focus on myself. In a way it’s kind of freeing.
I really needed to hear this post and the last one. I know I’d being doing just that. I’d been waiting for him to come back and say he realized how badly he treated me, even though I don’t want him back, I just wanted to be able to say I was right. I’m glad I read these two posts, because it helped me see that I was still in some twisted way focusing some attention on him and the dead relationship, when I should be working and focusing more on my stuff.
These two posts are really great for getting over that last hurdle once you’re out and practicing NC, but still hanging a little bit when you really just need to let go. I’m looking forward to reading “How to Lose an Assclown in 90 Days,” and seeing the progression of all the steps.
Yes– Excellent Post. I cant wait to feel like the woman in the picture and be so elated that Im jumping up in the air like that because Im finally over this A**clown and no longer feel I need his validation!!! HaHaHa! 😉
Thanks for the pep talk today. I am at 4 weeks, NC today. I drove by him and he waived today. I felt sad, stopped any thoughts of what I would say to him, allowed it all to pass, and then went on with my day. Signed on here for the pep talk–and got it.
I SO LOVE THAT i FINALLY GET THIS ! All those years of stubborness and bobsessinbg and making it about him never got me anywhere.
Making it about me and how I choose to be treated is the most satisfying, freeing answer of all.
It gives ME the power and not him. He is no longer the arbitrer of me – I am 🙂
Yes, this is a great pep talk for all of us. Remember–time heals. Take care, everyone.
I wish these articles were available to me 6 months ago – things would have been different. But it’s OK – now at 5 months NC it’s much clearer I’ve removed the rose colored glasses and see things as they really are (were).
I think with my ex husband I really wanted that validation that he was a mean drunk. It made no sense to want to hear it from him as I could see with my own eyes that yes ideedy he is that! Years later he apologized for how he treated me. It didn’t really matter because I was over him and felt indifferent towards him.
With the last AC, I’m thankful in a way that I didn’t launch him right away because I wouldn’t have moved to Australia and be living a great life with a great job etc. This was before the big recession hit and I would have still been in the US possibly having a hard time. I think back to when I should have launched him and really it should have been after I got back from a visit when I was trying to call him and he kept telling me to wait wait wait. Turns out he was chatting with some 13 year old girl and didn’t want to stop chatting to take my call. Can we say majorly CREEPY!
The final straws that flipped the switch for me was him hanging up on his mum and the series of lies that happened all that next week. I just kept catching him in one lie after the next.
I was on my way out. I stopped calling him. Hardly went to see him. Stopped the sex.
He of course picked up the pace and starting calling and calling.
Then he had blanked me all week and finally called to borrow my weed eater.
He blanked me the entire next week and then called me to bring him over some food and I said no and he started whinging about having no food and on and on to where I finally blew up at him confronting him on his lying and hung up on him.
I haven’t heard from him since. What a sniveling AC coward!
Each day gets better and better and I feel happier every day. He really was dragging me down in so many ways.
Reading this site always brightens up my day! These posts remind me to focus on myself rather than to waste my time thinking what the assclown is feeling or doing right now! Thank you!
It is such a relief to read this and actually understand and accept how things really are! The NCR was a blessing and was indeed the beginning to a more happier life … without him. It is just like NML said:
“but…when you, for example, end the relationship, and he still continues to show that he’s a complete dipstick by … by talking cheap but following through with no action … by never leaving his wife and instead starting a new affair … he does actually validate your decision to opt out.”
In the words of William Wallace: “FREEEEEDOM!” 🙂
This is my first time writing here, although I’ve read many of the posts on this site. I feel as if this 2-part series of posts really spoke to me. Also, yesterday, I read Mike’s responses to Part 1 of this series, and after reading his first message, I winced… because I knew that under all of his bluntness, he was right. I needed to read that in print.
I’ve been angry and obsessing because I hated the idea that my ex viewed himself as a great catch. I didn’t want him to think that he was superior to me, and I wanted to be the one left with the upper hand. But after chatting with him online for the first time after he dumped me and reading this series of articles, I think that I can finally move on. During that chat, he said that he wanted to have sex with me, but I wasn’t agreeing. So he asked, “Can’t you just let this happen for fu**’s sake?” I was so pissed! He had dumped me via text message a day after we had sex for the first time. My feelings were deeply hurt when he dumped me because he behaved so coldly. That day we had plans to see a movie together, and he wanted to give me a Christmas gift, but instead he sent me a text message, saying that we didn’t have chemistry, he didn’t “feel it,” we weren’t a match, I should stop asking questions & move on, and that “it is what it is.”This was after two months of going through his ambivalence (i.e., canceling dates, not calling when he promised, avoiding my calls, and communicating by text messages). During that chat, I asked why he wanted to have sex when he previously said that he didn’t “feel it.” He said that he was referring to not feeling “love” and was wrong about the feelings he had for me. He said, “I do like you and could hang out with you.”
What made me angry was that he acted as if nothing happened! There was no acknowledgment of hurting my feelings! It’s clear to me that he’s not going to change and that any effort I put into talking to him is wasting my time.
Hey folks, just a different perspective.
I did get a lot of validation from my exEUM. He agreed that he had these traits (after reading NML’s book) and he was sincerely apologetic for his emotional limitations and the baggage which prevented him from being able to carry through with a grown-up relationship.
Did having those validations and apologies make me feel any better?
NO!, absolutely it makes no difference. Right or wrong, he is still physically, biologically gone from my life, absent from my body, and the heartbreak, grief and loss is no different because of him acknowledging his problems.
Only time and forgiveness can do that. Oh, and hot baths. Later…
Karen…..I’m responding to your post from part one.
You just get to the point where you don’t care or need their validation anymore. It’s a very long journey, filled with pain and tears but a day does come when you just have had enough of them. They are NEVER going to understand what they did because they are not capable of introspection. It’s all about them and their needs. It’s a cycle with them. One relationship fails and they jump into another one, the cycle repeating itself. I’m sure they don’t think, well I’ve had so many relationships and they don’t seem to be working out, it must be something I’ve been doing. No they think, those women were crazy bitches and I’m still on the seach for “the one”. Actually he told me I was “the one”. But apparently I wasn’t “the one”. LOL. I was just “the one” that bought his line of BS unfortunately.
Regina, my guy too apologized for his emotional issues. He acknowledged that he had been unable to give me the relationship I wanted and that he had issues with commitment and even acknowledged that he had been a d**k to me. You are right – it didn’t make anything easier. The heartbreak is just as strong.
Time to focus on me and forgive myself.
Movin,
With his acknowledgement of wrongdoing, is he willing to seek help and change. Probably not.
So true – Seeking validation from outside yourself, from a person who disrespected your boundaries and does not care about you, is simply another way to avoid dealing with my own issues. I love this site.
I’d love to see a post on practical steps to creating your own validation. In this month of NC, besides reading this site and therapy, some simple things that have helped me:
– Writing down thoughts and dreams and goals I have for me, that I want to do, crazy stuff, anything, makes me feel creative.
– Watching movies that make me laugh.
– Exercising for fun and for me instead of to look good for him.
– Getting involved with group at church on an art project that will benefit some non-profit organizations in the community. Before with the EUM, it was all about him, and I would have never done this, all activities were about him and us. I was disconnected from myself.
– When the negative recording plays in my head, say out loud the opposite, something positive about myself.
NML is right, it’s not a mystical feat to do this for ourselves.
Gaynor, I so agree with you, is he willing to see help and change?
Nope, he will tell you what you want to hear – isn’t this what he did in the past??? Of course, just enough to keep you of your back and in the background.
Regina, no, you didn’t get any validation from him, he “agreed” he has these traits after reading NML’s book? Hmm, why are you still talking to him?? That is my question, talk is cheap…
I know you have said in the past that my comments are harsh, not what I am trying to do at all, but you never told me why you are communicating with thim??
He didn’t give you anything besides what you offered to give and that was communicating with him! Please, I hope the hot baths will keep you talking to him!! Why, why are you still communicating with him?
Would like to understand..
Gaynor, who cares if he is seeking help and change? Mine said he was going into therapy, but would that benefit me? Not likely! So, for awhile, it was validation to me to know that our breakup got him into therapy. But it obviously, by now, it did not result in any sea change of heart that would make him come back to me offering the Real Deal.
I guess the best validation we can do for ourselves is to release him from any of our future thoughts or dreams. I am working on that, one hot bath at a time. I sure am glad this is not summertime in Texas, the hot bath therapy would not be as comforting!
Astelle, I am not talking to him. NC for over three months now. And yes, you have been downright abusive to me, and for some reason you seem to misinterpret my situation every single time, so I really am not interested in any response from you at all ever again in the future. You seem to do okay with the other ladies so go for it. But I am asking for NC from you.
Regina, you are right, YOU also shouldn’t care if he is going into therapy! Is he sitting there and thinking: I am screwed up, messed it all up with Regina but going on forward I will be a “normal” guy with help of Theraphy” No, he is not, is he not “sofa surfing” at the same time? He is NOT sofa surfing period., I know that and I hope you know that as well. He is full of sh*t! You are so deluted, his “therapy” wouldn’t benefit anybody, please believe that!
He gave you no VALIDATION what so ever and I so HOPE you leave him and the couch surfing and therapy alone!
Do it for yourself, except the fact he is full of sh*t and move on, do not leave a door open for that creep!!! I call him a creep, because that is what he is!
You also don’t have to “release” him from YOUR future thoughts, what you need to do is”: CUT THE CONTACT!
I am also in Texas and I promise you that a hot bath will not help you to see clearly, but NC eventually will! You need to let go…NOW
Regina,
My post was rhetorical.
Miki-You’re on the right track. He will not change and the only way to heal your hurt and move on is to establish the NCR. You deserve better, I hope you read the 3 posts from NML on Boundaries. That’s very important if necessary makes copies so you can carry it with you or have when you begin to feel a weak moment.
I am pissed at how he treated you, and the comment about sleeping with your for “f*cks sake” just makes my blood boil. You met a real loser with that guy, cut the cord and move on. Remember NO CONTACT!
@ Astelle and Regina I am not going to comment on the issue that exists between you both, but keeping in mind both of your most recent comments, please let that be the last of this personal and rather hostile discussion. This is not a forum – it’s a commenting system to be used to discuss the subject matter of the adjacent post and your comments are personal and bearing in mind you are not the only people that read this site, inappropriate.
Astelle, I appreciate that you have your opinion and want to be helpful but you must respect Regina’s request to essentially leave her alone as to further comment is just antagonistic, even though I am sure it is not what you intended. You, I know, have been helpful to many others and it is appreciated, but on this occasion, that’s not what is happening so just leave it.
myalmostlover:
You are soo right! My xEUM was texting and calling this other women and I found out. I confronted him about it and ofcourse he denied and lied about it and said… “they were just friends” (uhm– i dont think I text any friends of mine 100 x a day and or speak to them at 3 in the morning!) so clearly to me– there was something else going on. Either way I truly agree that one relationship fails and they are just on to the next without reflecting at all as to whether or not they played any role in making the last one fail– let alone take some responsibility for it. I think the best answer for me has been that he is a LOSER! It has taken me so much to get there because for the longest time he was (or I felt he was) my sweety, my baby (I can throw up now! LOL) but thats only because I wasnt willing to see the reality of his true character. I have to say that I feel I have almost completely grasped what NML is saying in these posts about seeking Validation from them… it will never happen– and so what? I have to stand firm in my beliefs and what my boundries were and feel good about the fact that I ended the relationship (although its been hard and painful) because I felt what he was doing and the way he was going about it was extremely unacceptable (Atleast to me). Not to mention that he was very selfish, it was me constantly being there for him and giving with so little recipricoty from him. You are right– there is no winning with these men because they will never see it…and so why spend my energy and time on trying to make something happen that never will (or if it does– I might be waiting a loooong time). I used to feel bad about standing up for myself and being assertive because I didnt want to be labeled a b*tch but now I realize that it isnt about being a b*tch but looking out for yourself first and not always putting men like this before you when they don’t even deserve it or appreciate it!!! Boundries are extremely necessary and it was something I was really lacking and Im happy to say that I have been really good lately at placing boundries with my friends, co-workers etc….and hopefully I will continue to do so as well when I begin to date again.
My how the ego can cause us so much turmoil.
When a relationship ends, we all feel we have failed in one way or the other, and we all have a hard time dealing with our failures.
Since every relationship we enter into is a reflection of ourselves, do you not think that those things you obsess over and want to have validated, are indeed those things that you perceive you have failed at? With that in mind, it should be an inner signal to start working on yourself in those areas, rather than wasting time working on him.
~Best Wishes~
searchingwithin
You bring up a valid point and one that I have yet to completely understand. NML mentions that: “We choose men that reflect the things that we believe about ourselves, love, and relationships”. Perhaps I am in such denial and am not able to yet see how this works really because I am not a selfish, unempathetic non-introspective person. I for the most part…. feel I am a smart, attractive woman who has many good qualities. I then ask myself how exactly is it that I choose or attract men that are the complete opposite of this or what I want? Is it because deep down I don’t believe I deserve better? And if this is the case…. Is working on my self esteem the answer? You say: “Since every relationship we enter into is a reflection of ourselves, do you not think that those things you obsess over and want to have validated, are indeed those things that you perceive you have failed at?” How exactly does it work if he is a reflection of me if I feel I am the complete opposite of him? While I realize my “CHOICES” haven’t been that great…. I dont see how he is a reflection of me? Can someone explain or help me understand this?
Thanks! 🙂
Thanks, NML.
Gaynor, I didn’t mean anything antagonistic to you, I did take your question literally, not rhetorically. Sorry I didn’t catch that.
Regina,
I didn’t take it that way. Don’t worry.
Karen, let me spend some time with the best way to explain what I mean, and then, I will probably write a post about it.
I will say this now. I am NOT saying you are just like him, or he is a clone of you.
If you believe that you do not deserve to be loved, there is a reason, or more likely reasons, you believe this. He is a reflection, in way that he not only is fulfilling that belief, making it stronger, but if you go inside, really deep inside of yourself, and get to know yourself, and this is never ending, because you are always changing, you will start to recognize what it is about yourself that they are showing you. Something that has not worked out right at some point in your life, and is brewing inside of you. Even if you don’t realize it is doing it. It’s not easy, because so much of it lies out of conscious thought in your subconscious. But there is so much more I need to say, and like I said, I will have to collect my thoughts, and I will write about it.
Another great post and timely … was feeling “ookie” today after a bizarre dream about my ex this morning – he was even blowing me off in my dreams, geez! Plus he was in the office and the tension in the air made me uncomfortable. Luckily he has left and I read this post.
NML says: Do you want to keep seeking validation from men because you place no value on your own opinion, judgement, feelings, or essentially yourself as a whole …
Yea … seeking validation from a person that you know is truly screwed up? It is like getting a crazy person to see your point of view. Impossible. Once again, these guys do not have what we are seeking from them. The well is empty and we keep dropping our buckets into it, hoping that water will one day magically appear JUST because we really want it to. So sad.
To Miki.. your post is alot like my sister’s, Chloe. She is feeling hurt and used right now, but is starting to realize what a creep this guy was and why she allowed him to treat her that way. Anyway, best of luck to you.
I’m not sure if I were a woman that I would want a man that treated me with disrespect to finally admit to me that he was a a-hole. I mean to know that he realized how badly his behavior was would only make me wonder/obsess about how his next relationship works out. And isn’t this site supposed to help NOT to do just that? Who cares if he’s realized it? The point is, he did it too late to make any changes to the relationship you had with him.
I think if you are clear about what you are looking for from a man, what you are willing to put into a relationship, and were you will draw the line as far as bad behavior, then you may not have to do as much “soul searching” as some of you point out. I think the basic thread of these posts is that you are all wanting to be loved – and that’s not a bad thing at all. Just my opinion.
Annied,
Great analogy!
Karen….Did we have the same bf??…lol. Seriously they must be made from the same mold. Mine also started cheating on me at the end and said the same thing when I found out, “We’re just friends”. Uh-huh….
Yes they are selfish and self centered. But you know I have to take some responsiblity because I fed into that. I treated him like a freakin baby. Oh honey .let me do this for you or can I help you with this. It got to be such a habit I didn’t even realize I was doing it. That kind of giving is fine as long as your getting back too. I was doing most of the giving.
When he started cheating I was totally shocked. I just never thought he would do that. So I spent several months trying to play detective and the longer I did that the angrier I got. I think it was mostly my being competitive with this woman that suddenly was in our relationship. I felt so wounded and inadequate. Now I realize it wasn’t about me at all. He just can’t sustain relationships.
It was so bad at the end…finally I couldn’t take it anymore and ended it with NC. I did tell him that I needed to break up with him and blah, blah but at that point it really didn’t matter.
We’ve talked a couple of times, breaking NC but I really can’t stand him now. I don’t want to talk to him. He thinks he can call me up and just start chatting away like nothing ever happened. I think he’s delusional.
I do feel sad sometimes but it was for the good times we had. I have some nice memories of us but that’s all they are are memories. The man I knew and loved is gone and he’ll never be back. This other person is a stranger to me.
We’re both lucky we got out. Just think if we had married the creeps.
MIke…..I love hearing a man’s perspective. It’s really eye opening. Hope you keep posting and calling it as you see it.
There is a wonderful New Yorker cartoon where a wife says to her husband: “I don’t want your apology — I want you to be sorry.â€
Actions!
My AC believes that there is nothing wrong with him….after 4 divorces and I am sure countless women scattered throughout his years on this earth. And, ok, I should have seen it coming so that is my fault that I accepted him but really, with a track record like that and the fact he has only been in therapy briefly, he will never change. He always will only be able to offer what he gave me.
And he left a message for me via a friend because I was not responding – it was a revisionist message and completely dilusional.
As I told my friend when he was done relaying ‘the message’ to me….”If he could only stop and see how his actions are so hurtful and see how he treats people…not just me”
But it will always be the same……whether I am there or not. So, in essence I pity him.
Hello, this is my first post, but I have been reading and absorbing information from this site for a while now. I started no contact in October last year and have just received an email from the ex EUM. It is claiming to want to know how I am; he doesn’t know why I broke contact!! The reasons were many and legion. I haven’t replied but I can appreciate how strong the need for validation so thanks..
Icedancer,
He’s contacting you four-months after you instituted NC????? What took him so long 🙂
Honey, keep it up!!! Don’t reply!!!!
JuJu- my former AC did a similar thing by contacting my friends (because they still work where he does) and casually asking how I was doing. Believe me, I spoke with my “friends” and put a stop to it right away. No one, and I mean no one who treats women the way this guy did should be given the time of day let alone some info on “how I’m doing”, or “what I’ve been up to”.
This is where NML’s post on boundaries really helped me out. I didn’t ask my friends to stop talking to him, but I did tell them that sharing any personal information about me, my whereabouts or anything else was inappropriate, that I needed and expected their loyalty. If they wanted to be loyal to the former AC then say so because at least then I knew where they stood.
Because in all honesty when they shared stuff about him to me, I just went backwards with my healing and it was killing me on the inside. It took me days to bounce back, and I was pretending to my friends that what they shared didn’t bother me when it was tearing me apart. They didn’t know, now they know and have respected where I am.
The rest of your post sounds like you have him figured out – stay with NC and keep working thru it. Maybe ask your friend to refrain from being his “delivery person” because he’s trying to manipulate her the same way he did things with you. Because as your post said: “he will never change”. He just baits another victim. Right?
Betterwithouthim
I was surprised that my friend (who’s not fond of the AC) didn’t tell him that he needed to find another ‘vehicle’ – And I did tell my friend that I don’t need any more information into the future.
And now I receive an evite for a party in my condo building with the old crowd including the AC. He’s already accepted. I’m sure he’s wondering what my response will be. I wouldn’t want to disappoint him – I think I will catch a flight for a long weekend to Florida. Then I don’t have any of those bad vibes of everyone being just floors above me, partying. Having an entourage attached to the AC and myself makes this all the more difficult. AC hasn’t told them anything so they call and ask whats going on – this is 2 – 2.5 months later.
Anyway, I knew the beast when I first started with him and tolerated the bad behavior because of the things ‘around’ him (friends, parties, trips). I deserve what I got since my focus wasn’t on me, my boundries and how he treated me but on all the other relatively superfluous stuff around him. Well, there obviously were good times but mainly when we were alone and not in a crowd for him to collect his Narc strokes. The AC is a complete controller.
Yes, you are right – he does bait others. He will be moving on to another group of people at some point I suppose. Funny, he has some friends that stick by him, wary, but stick by him. As I have said before, the AC doesn’t do anything, ask anything, say anything without having an ulterior motive…..you can imagine what my last days were like with him…..always questioning why he was asking me to do things or go somewhere. Ugh, the pain!
I always wonder why they ask after us way down the road after the breakup. I suppose I have done that myself. Maybe just nostalgic. How long has it been since you walked, Betterwithouthim?
JuJu-It’s been 5 months. I have not gotten any contact from him because I changed my numbers, blocked his email, changed my email, and with my work number I figured out (with some help) how to create a rule that if he call me hear from his ususal phone nbrs it will automatically disconnect him, no option to leave a vm, nothing. Just my voicemail greeting and click he’s gone.
We broke up and he sucked me back in too many times for it to be any other way. It’s been hard, I get weak but then I have my list of his most horrible phrases, excuses or lies, and just refer to that which makes me angry and I am no longer weak.
I feel good, I feel free and it’s the best thing I ever did for MYSELF. It’s taken me a long time to get here but I’m never going back or looking back.
I like your Florida idea for the condo party. Your the one better off, and can let go. He can’t so he’ll try all tactics to suck you back in. Good for you JuJu, you’re empowering yourself. I like it, you go gf!
Betterwithouthim
I proably sound more empowered than I feel 🙂
They say “Fake it till you make it” so, that’s what I am doing. I have been through many breakups before – including a marriage. This one is worse though since it was closest to a comfortable relationship that I have had in quite a few years. In fact, I am going to stay with an ex in Florida (how funny is that?) but we were always great friends and he’s always great on relationships. His attitude is “stay away from them or simply have zero expectations!!” In fact, he calls relationships that go back together after being broken, “retreads”. I love that!
I have to say that I am really angry that I have to, basically, not go to the party – why can’t he stay home? How do the tables turn like that?? Really?? Does that mean he’s stronger than I am, that I am weaker. Maybe I should just go and ignore him but there will only be 20 people there. And he may just have a sidekick. I don’t know if he would bring ‘her’ along (if there is one, sure there is) if I was going to be there. Oh, who cares…..
I am really impressed with your resolve to get shot of your ex. I never knew you could set up phones to disconnect a number – he must have been shocked!!!! LOL. And 5 months – good for you! And you went back more than once? What was that like? Did he love you, or tell you he did? You went back for a reason – what did give you that you went back for?
been a month with NC after a year of what I thought was so much fun. Heart is breaking still, bad day today but by reading the posts here know that one day I will not be thinking of how much it hurts. I’m working on the boundaries and realizing that I gave way too much and he invested very little. Surviving another day and working on me, somebody tell me if he even knows I’m not in his life any longer. Doubt that it has been noticed.
Falling down, I am also in that mode of surviving one day at a time. Daily struggle to do small things to heal. Feel like a fool today, found out his business has a new branch and now makes in a month what I make in a year, he has looks & charm, and believe me, getting dates for him (or new victims) is no problem. I’m stuggling, and he doesn’t recall I exist. I blocked all numbers and emails, so I know won’t hear from him. Which is good, but…..
Why is it such a hard bitter feeling he think’s he’s the greatest gift to woman, and having a fabulous fun time with the next he ditched me for. He lives the glamour fun life, with no regard for his actions. I SHOULD NOT CARE, but it doesn’t seem fair. What do to not care? I don’t want him, just wanted that upper hand, validation. It’s never coming from him, and it’s a blessing, I just haven’t gotten there yet.
I’d like to add that NML is spot on that seeking validation from these guys is about control. I want control and an ending. It’s my hope to wake one day soon and not care at all, getting there. NC is key.
Michelle
You will get there as we all will.
When you realize (and from your post you see it as it is – remember that!) that what he creates around him is his illusion – his ‘glamour life’ is flittant. It is not something you base forever on. I don’t know how old he is but age and maturity never mesh. He is empowered by the attention. He feels validated – however he gets that kick. You and I know that this is not our way forward. So, why join in with him? Our task is to get closer to reality. What makes us happy -why we get up in the morning and walk out the door. Focus on those relationships whether they be friends, family or lovers that leave us with joy and not angst.
For your ex – there is periferal validation where he collects people (friends) around him, on his terms that make him feel great. He may have jetisoned his family and marriages and possibly even children and he can still show up at a party/bar/function and he seems completely normal. My ex had no pictures of his children or friends in his house. He knew it was odd too – I could see his reaction. For me, things like this drew me to him. I didn’t want to “fix” him, I wanted to see him question.Waste of time! There are plenty of wonderful centered people out there to meet…..
I guess the point is seeing the red flags and just slowing down on that high speed highway long enough to see the road signs.
JuJu, thanks. Great point about creating illusion around him. Sounds like you understand how the superflous can be appealing, but if we buy the lie and lose ourselves, it only brings pain.
You are strong, not weak, to do your own thing and avoid your ex at this party or anytime. Remember they don’t process or feel things like we do – no respect for boundaries or the relationship = no respect for us or our feeling. NC all the way. I would run run run away from a party if my ex were there! He’s 38 and so vain, worried about aging already, so self-absorbed, needs all the attention. Guys like this don’t suddenly get insight or introspection or feel sorry for the wreckage they leave behind.
Protecting ourselves and having boundaries as we get to where we need to be is super important. I’m having such a hard time of it today, but maybe tomorrow will be better, and the next I won’t care at all. Will keep looking for those red flags! 🙂
Betterwithouthim and JuJu:
I had a friend for years – we weren’t in a relationship but we might as well have called it that – who I cut off for good 10 months ago. No calls, no e-mails, no texts, NOTHING. This wasn’t the first time I cut him off, but this was DEFINITELY THE LAST TIME. Told him to make believe I was dead.
The sneaky assclown would contact 2 friends of mine in particular. One of them (although she kinda means well) is shallow and superficial like him so she thinks he’s still a nice guy (she’s too dumb to realize that he’s only calling her for his own self-serving needs – namely, to try to find out stuff about me). The other one thinks he’s cool but knows he’s an assclown so she doesn’t tell him anything when he’s asked about me; since she doesn’t tell him anything, he’s pretty much given up on asking. I had to tell the shallow one (and may have to tell her again since she’s a bit slow) to not tell him anything about me. The other one doesn’t have to be told because she does it out of respect for me. He even tried to call my best friend, which shocked me because of all the people to try to call, she should have been the LAST one to call because she knows how much of an assclown he is and REFUSES to engage him in such bullshit. She ignored the call.
Last I heard that he tried to contact any of them was in November, and last time he tried to contact me in any way was via e-mail in November. Yes….. every 2 months or so he feels the need to send me a bullshit forward. Because my e-mail doesn’t have a “block” function, I just sent the e-mails to “spam” without any response.
As for validation, I’m glad that this series was done. I’ve never gotten validation from failed relationships (or potential relationships) and always felt that the only way to get validation was to work on myself. I sometimes thought that was the wrong thing to do and would get very bitter that the jerks would never give me closure, so I just resigned myself to seeking validation by working on myself. I’m glad that, despite my bitterness, I was doing the right thing. If I ever deal with an assclown again (goodness knows I hope not), I’ll know what to do.
Thanks NML and everyone else. 😉
I think you should look at the situation, evaluate what part you had it in that you could change to prevent yourself from feeling victimized and then vow to not do those things again. Then MOVE on. Looking back after that learning experience is pointless. It doesn’t change anything. It you use the experience well, it will turn you into the fabulous woman the next man will be lucky to have.
I almost broke the NC moments ago, I have been having trouble for the past few days and called his number at work, heard the voice mail and my heart was beating out of my chest. So glad he did not pick up. Just miss my friend, easy to forget how disrespectful he could be at times. My hands are still shaking… there was never a real ending, not sure if I’m seeking validation or something else. He said he loved me, can guys just shut down and walk away without warning?
JuJu- to answer your question earlier. I was with the xEUM for 2 yrs, we worked together for 6 yrs prior and never had any romantic connection. After I left that job he started emailing me, you know just wanting to keep in touch and of course he “missed me”. I thought nothing of it, but then in some weak moment I asked him if he would be interested in doing some consulting for me, off hours and he could set his own hours etc. One thing led to another, he was hot and cold, hot and cold. I ended up firing him because he wasn’t keeping up with the work, I had to cut contact on so many occasions but I always felt sorry for him. He would leave me voicemails, text msgs, and I would soon give in.
I thought we had a relationship, but now looking back there was no relationship, just him there and then not there. He pulled the dissappearing acts often, he was mean, it was just awful. I don’t think he ever loved me, said he did but he “said” a lot of stuff he didn’t mean. You know the typical – maybe he thought if he said it enough out loud he would believe it himself. I don’t know.
I never deserved it. I was at NC for 9 months and he got thru to me, he wanted to apologize, he “said” he changed. Well, he never apologized, he kept talking through this you know what and it only took me a few weeks and I went to NC and this time for good and it’s been 5 months.
All I can say is 1) he never changed 2) breaking NC just made everything worse 3) because I broke the NCR it set me back and it’s taken me even longer to heal and feel good about myself.
The posts from Mike helped me get straight about the AC, I was moving at a snails pace before with healing. Mike’s post were the piece I needed and now I’m on a rabbits pace towards healing. This site is wonderful!
Thanks to NML and everyone who posts here!
Falling,
Does a friend do that?
To Falling Down… to answer your question if guys can just shut down and walk away…. ABSOLUTELY. We will almost always tell you we would like to remain friends, because that keeps us from looking like the complete a-hole that was so rude to you throughout the relationship.
I would really try not to call him in the future…. he may not be the type of “friend” you need based on your post.
To NML and the ladies that have allowed me to post on this site for the past few weeks.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read my posts. My initial posts were to basically help my sister, Chloe, get past a very unhealthy relationship. But I’ve also learned from reading several of your stories and NML’s various articles that some men really have no clue of the damage they can do to a woman’s psyche by playing games, drifting in and out of their lives, etc. Based on what I’ve read, I know that it has made me more aware of my “guy” behavior and I thank you very much for sharing your stories and opening my eyes a little wider in the relationship world.
Thanks again
Mike,
Thank you!!!!
I would like some understanding as to why a man would care if he were considered an a$$hole by his former girlfriend? If this man had repeatedly mistreated the woman in the relationship-he must have been aware of his poor behavior-why would he care now??? He certainly didn’t seem to have much of a conscious when they were together.
Mike
I hope your not leaving us!! You point of view and “big brother” type of approach has been very helpful to us as well 🙂
Betterwithouthim,
Thanks for your suggestions. =) Yes, I read the 3 posts from NML on Boundaries. That’s something that I really need to work on. With men, I tend to give up my boundaries because I don’t want them to think I’m uptight and then leave me, but I always feel guilty about having done so. On the other hand, I have no problem telling my friends, relatives, or other people what’s not acceptable behavior.
I do think NC is the best solution because every time I communicated with my ex, I got angry and then obsessed about what he said for several days. But that wasn’t anything new. After his “Prince Charming” persona disappeared, I ended up talking too much about the relationship. I clung to the “happily ever after” picture that he had originally painted. During various conversations, he once asked if I’d take on his last name if we were to get married, said that our future kids would look really cute, and wanted me to get a job at his company so that we could move from California to work at an office in Puerto Rico.
As I’m writing this, I’m thinking that I sound like an idiot for believing this crap! I was very skeptical and expressed my concern to him, but he kept reassuring me that he was “different from other guys” and “wore his heart on his sleeve.” Yeah, right. He didn’t have a heart in the first place! Everything he said was a lie. And even towards the end, he said that he wanted to search for local apartments so we could live together. In what normal relationship does a partner express interest in cohabiting only to change his mind a few days later and say that we weren’t a match? And there was my answer – we didn’t have a relationship. My best friend, a guy I’ve known for 25 years, said that my ex probably had no intention of living with me, but that he suggested it to keep me hooked on his “fishing line.” I think that my friend was right.
Gaynor
With guys it’s all about perception. They may have walked, talked and acted like an a$$ but heaven forbid people actually THINK they are. He may not care that an ex-girlfriend FEELS that that way about him, but trust me, he does care if others around him will start believing the stories they have heard.
Hello Everyone
Just need to vent
I think I have finally accepted for good that my xEUM is a complete Selfish A**clown and opportunist. For the longest time I kept blaming myself– wondering what it was that i was or wasnt doing that I could not get him to be more empathetic, more giving, more caring, more involved with my needs and what made me happy. I was still up until a little while ago giving him the benefit of the doubt. And slowly I became more emotionally detached from him which allowed me to clearly see him for the person that he really is. Now I just feel disgust whenever I see him (we work in the same company) and I have no respect for him. Im not sure if I should be sad or happy because the other thing I would need to accept is that I completely wasted my time and gave my love and my all to someone who was never really appreciating it. I think it scares me how blind i was …or how tinted my glasses were. I guess I just didnt want to see the real him or accept it eventhough a part of me already knew this. So needless to say Im not sure what to do with these feelings. I guess I am REGRETTING having been with him. Regretting having given so much…regretting ever thinking of him soo highly. I know I can only move on…..but like I said– it is so scarey to think that I could have been soo naive so blind and that he could be such a liar and opportunist. And I am talking about the types of lies where he tells you the sky isnt blue— really thinking all along that you are going to believe it (I guess I did) 🙁 and that hurts. He could sell snow to a snowman… and all I keep thinking is what a complete A** i have been for falling for such a trick (or at least thats how it feels). He’s the type of person that if you say– hey I’ll treat you to lunch– he would order the most expensive thing on the menu– just because he can and you offered. (Ugh!! Makes me sick!!) Needless to say I have no problems right now saying NO or being short or being indifferent with him or with being assertive. I’m also no longer seeking validation from him) I just feel like he got the best of me and I think Ive said this before– but I just feel ROBBED! Does anyone else feel like this? I feel like a complete A** and am just full of regret. Im assuming this is just part of the process of getting over it as well?? Am I still beating myself up over this?? (SIGH) 🙁
It’s unfortunate that this concern for others opinions does not change their behavior.
Mike, thanks for hanging around and participating with us. You’ve been quite helpful. Yep we women are people too and really nobody male or female likes to be mistreated.
oh one more thing:
All this time that I spent thinking about the fact that maybe i just wasnt pretty enough– or understanding enough or supportive enough or giving enough… I know that has to do with my self esteem and how I was reacting to the situation– maybe thats what im most upset about is realizing that i didnt really have to blame myself that much– but that I instead took the blame for things TOO MUCH only to find out that he is just a JERK– I just didnt want to see it. Im not saying i don’t have a role to play in this or that I don’t want to take responsibility but I definetely tortured myself with thinking that it was all me! A little confused right now
True validation comes from within, not without and there really is no such thing as “unfinished business.”
All business is finished, it just didn’t finish the way you wanted it to.
The real secret ladies (as the author quite wisely said) comes in understanding that just because one person appears to understand you, their map of the world can be quite different so don’t sweat it because the only pewrson you need validation from is the person reading this…
Love,
Anabelle
Hi Karen-I beat myself up pretty bad as well thinking I wasn’t good enough for the AC. And now we (you and me) both know it has to do with ourselves and low self-esteem. The xEUM kept marginalising our expectations, which started pecking away at an already weak self-esteem. I thought I had a pretty good self-image but man after being with that AC I had no self-image. It was pretty bad, I tortured myself over and over again.
Again, this goes back to validation. Looking for someone (an AC) or something (a mirror) to validate us. It’s not their job, it’s not even someone else’s right to do that. You have a good heart, you’re smart, witty, beautiful. No one should be able to take that from you or from anyone one us here -that post or read.
Karen, you have come a long distance in a short time, you’re blessed in so many ways. Don’t beat yourself up anymore, start to forgive yourself so that you can love yourself. Remember the validation starts with you, if you can’t love yourself and be happy in your own skin how can you or anyone of us gf’s find a mate to share that with. Notice I said “share” not give he takes…type thing. 😉
thanks for the honesty Mike, not easy to hear but appreciated. My AC didn’t even go the wanna be friends route. I am the one who bid farewell in a text, tacky, but I knew he would talk me out of it and no I’m not strong enough after my self worth has been destroyed by him. He texted back, said we would talk but never did. a moment of insanity today nearly blew the month of NC, won’t do that again. AC was my best friend, or so I thought, feel like a fool and betrayed. Reclaiming my self confidence slowly, if I can go more than a day with no tears it will be progress. He had stupid ugly shoes.
Mike –
I think you are absolutely right that men may be aware of what they are and how they treat other people but when other people realise it then they are ducking for covers.
Like I stated before, one AC that went off with my friend is adament in his way of thinking – that he just hasn’t met the ‘right’ woman yet and that the fact that he went off with my friend was perfectly acceptable … My other AC before him was adament in thinking that kissing another woman was OK because he never initiated the kiss … Thank the heavens and all the Angels that they are outta ma life!
Still it is a real shame not a lot of men go on this site so that they may get the understanding that you have Mike.
For future, personal, reference I would like to know if men really just think – if I can have the cake and eat it too, I will, regardless of the fact that I have a GF / fiance / wife etc. Why can’t they ever be happy with what they have?
Alison,
I would like to respond to the situations in your second paragraph. The reason they are making these excuses is so that they will never have to acknowledge responsibility to others or themselves, it makes it easier that way.
Alison
I personally think most men are usually happy with what they have but it takes a long time for us to reach that point. It’s called maturity.
We may want a successful career, or travel the world or just date many women before committing ourselves to serious relationship. There’s nothing wrong with any of those reasons, but when we aren’t upfront in the BEGINNING, that’s when we create these dramas. While I don’t think it’s proper for any man to cheat or string a woman along, sometimes the simple truth could be that we have expressed that we don’t want a serious relationship and the women may not have actually heard what we are saying.
Fallingdown and Michelle~ the girls that come after you will have to go down the same road you just got off of….it’s hard to see that as a good thing right now because it hurts….but your miles ahead of their next victims…hold tight
Karen~ this really is a happy moment for me because I was going to post earlier at how much you have changed from the time you started posting. Now I know you’ve changed because “regret†for what you lost is another step in the right direction…it’s not really regret, it’s mourning. I think what you’re experiencing is quite normal (at least it’s something I went through) and you will be so much better for it. It’s break-through time. ~hugs~
Mike,
To some extent, I do agree with what you said to Allison with regard to maturity, but some of these EUM (like mine) are older and still playing the same song. My EUM is 47, was married for 10 years, in an LTR for 3 years and is now with me. Whether he does it intentionally or subconciously, he is the king of managing down expectations and I am beginning to see that.
Gaynor- I guess its better to sweep issues under the carpet and never deal with them … For them anyway. One word: Karma.
Mike- I believe that is what I’m missing then, a mature man. I don’t need someone to profess to ‘love me’ then leave me. How about one who is willing to fight for me, instead of me doing ALL the fighting… I’m learning more and accepting fairy tale endings are not real. There is after all light at the end of this dark tunnel… I can see it already 🙂 Thanks
Judy- One of my EUMs is 28. Just a mansized assclown baby… So maybe some men will never mature, but it still doesn’t mean there aren’t any out there. Fingers crossed we’ll all find one… Hopefully not the same one, haha!
Karen!!
Wow! I had to leave last night and didn’t get around to reading any posts today…
Karen – I just got to you post about him going for lunch as your treat and he would order the most expensive thing on the menu. Mine was exactly the same. if we all went out to eat and the bill sat on the table, he would completely ignore it and wait until someone took it over. In fact, the first time we went out he had a friend with him (we were sailing so needed another on the boat) and we went for dinner and his friend paid. He was probably bribed by the priviledge of being on the boat. Ugh! I am sooooo with you on this.
Any narcisisism there, borderline?
Your AC is a user, my AC is a user. And guess what! They will ALWAYS be that way. Aren’t you glad you aren’t with him any more?
Anway – things are much better without them. Of course, I still miss him but as a friend said to me “You have a hole in your heart but its not shaped like the AC”.
Well, my EUM proved himself today. I have not been able to stop contacting him – its like I’m addicted. I told him I’d like to go to dinner on V Day. (He was at work and cannot talk on the phone when he’s at work). He didn’t answer. Later in the day, I texted him to see if he wanted to do something tonight. He answered that text saying he wanted to go home from work, take some meds and go to bed (he has a cold). I responded by asking if he gave any thought to my V Day text and then sent a second text saying I’d take a raincheck for tonight. He said K. Huh? K to which? So I asked him K to which so I can plan my week. He didn’t answer that. When he got off work, I called him and he didn’t answer the phone. I left a message saying call me or text and let me know about V Day so I could plan next weekend’s visitation with my XH. He didn’t even answer that. I guess that tells me everything. He is off work next weekend, so its not like he couldn’t say yes or no. Its either because he’s made plans with someone else, waiting to see if something better comes along, or doing the slow fade/disappearing act instead of ending the relationship out right. His lack of response tells me everything. Having a tough time tonight.
Judy- Very similar to my EUM. He would also lead me on without ever telling me yes or no. It is like he thrived on my pain… But like I said before, any guy who gets his rocks off by hurting girls is not worth the time. Who cares WHY he is doing it, the fact that he IS doing it tells you he’s a buttmonkey. You don’t need validation from him, dont text/call him again and he’ll end up contacting you, but strong and keep the NCR from this point on. Spend V Day with your friends and learn to love yourself.
Judy,
Your description about your EUM’s lack of response reminded me of my ex-EUM who also happens to be the same age. I remember how frustrating it was not to hear back from him whether I left a voicemail or sent a text message. When I look back, I think of how I was doing all of the work. That is, I was initiating contact and asking about when we’d talk or meet. It really shouldn’t have been so one-sided. I once told him that he didn’t respect my time when he didn’t respond, but I continued to let him carry on that way.
Judy
Im not one to give the best advice right now but I was reading through some of the posts and read yours and just felt I needed to reach out.
I guess those that are further along this process can sometimes see things a little clearer and I was were you were not too long ago. It does feel like an addiction- and to an extent it is. It is an addiction to our old ways of thinking and in thinking that the answer lies in these men and outside of ourselves. The fact that you are reaching out to him so much (reminds me soo much of me by the way) and sending texts and him not responding and you continuing to reach out for him is not a good sign. I know what it feels like to want to get that small little crumb..that “high” that feeling of relief because you want it (him) so bad and to not get an answer is such a blow to our ego. But have you stopped to realize that it is all but a crumb that you are fishing for? Shouldn’t a great person like yourself (which Im sure you are) deserve for a guy to atleast respond to a text about v day not to mention perhaps actually BE the one to initiate wanting to get together?? You are giving him too much of the upper hand and he is telling you by his INactions your answer. You shouldn’t have to do sooo much of the work (well in this case– you are doing ALL the work) to get a guy. Please take it as “THE ANSWER” and don’t try to contact him anymore… Im only saying this because I know what its like to be in your position and to them you are just coming across as desperate and putting yourself right in the palm of his hand and you are sooooo much better than that!!! I think you are also justifying it by saying that you just want to plan your weekend, you just want an answer that you’ll take a raincheck ANYTHING ANYTHING just to be with him (go back and read your post…i thought the next thing you weren’t going to say was how high should I jump?). This guy is not even respecting you enough to answer a simple text message! Nor taking into consideration any of your feelings or “plans” for that weekend. What if he is just waiting until the last minute (just in case nothing better comes along) and calls you the nite before to spend Vday together?? Would you be ok with that? Where are your standards? Does Judy not deserve better? I hope this isnt coming across harsh but I see so much of myself in you and so I want to just shake you and tell you what a big mistake you are making if you continue to contact him. If you are having a tought time tonight, please instead of picking up that phone to text or call him and obsessing — spend time on this site and go back and read NML’s post on boundries (you need to establish some RIGHT NOW…!) and also the post where NML talks about “If he doesn’t end the relationship Why can’t you end the relationship” –i think its under “breaking up”. And read more about what it means to be a “Fallback Girl” Give yourself strength by giving yourself knowledge and information to understand WHY you feel the pull and the addiction to this guy. Like I said– believe me…. IVE BEEN THERE! And it is a bit like de-tox where little by little you have to ween yourself off from him (or the feeling I should say) and yes it is hard and painful but the more you learn about what you are doing, why you are doing it, the more you realize you are wasting your time and the more you realize that you are coming from an empty place inside of you that NO MAN can fill………and that giving into that uncomfortable feeling just to get a “fix” and feel better just for that moment, is not helping you in the long run. No man is worth you putting yourself out there as much as you have!!! You deserve much much more than that!!!!
Lots of hugs to you! I know what you are feeling but trust me…stop contacting him!!!!
betterwithouthim, metsgirl and JuJu Thank you so much for your posts today and your support…!! Yes JuJu he is a USER and a “LOSER” (hahaha) Definetely traits of narcissism there…its soo pathetic and disgusting if you think about it… the way they just sit back and think the world revolves around them and we let them!!! OH well… not anymore!!! You should see how indifferent I am with him now at work…… he is a really good looking guy so all the girls at work go gaga over him and they bring him lunch coffee etc…. Im just soooo glad Im not one of them anymore…just wish I could have seen it sooner!! Now I don’t even look in his direction because I see right through his good looks to a sad, empty, selfish poor excuse for a guy And whenever he TRIES to come my way for an Ego stroke…. I say NOPE sorry…………Karen is no longer available, door closed, end of story!!! *YAY! 😉
Please forgive the length of this post – I really need to vent. After I posted earlier, my EUM texted me and told me he didn’t want to do Valentines Day because its “never been a biggie” for him. I was furious. I called and when he didn’t answer, I left a message on his voicemail telling him that just because it wasn’t a biggie for him, doesn’t mean it wasn’t important to me. I was pretty angry and told him I feel unimportant to him.
When he didn’t call back, I called him again and left him a message telling him I was breaking it off. He called back and said he couldn’t understand what I said because it was garbled. I told him what I said and he said he really doesn’t see the relationship progressing because he doesn’t feel the emotional attachment he should be feeling by this point in time.
He let me vent on him for quite a while, so I did get my closure and, believe or not, he validated some of what I said, but stated “That’s just the way I am.” I asked him how he expects to feel an emotional attachment to someone he texts every few days and calls once a week and sees every week or two. I told him I felt I was just a convenience, someone he called when he wanted to have sex.
This one takes the cake – he told me he’s been feeling this way for a while. I asked him why he went on vacation with me last week, let me pay for everything that I did (I paid for all but one our dinners, for the condo, the baby sitter for my son 2 of the 3 nights, groceries and alcohol to have at the condo, and pictures of him skiing), invited his friends to stay in our 700 sq. ft condo, bonded with my son and led me to believe everything was good. His response???? He thought it would be worse if he didn’t go. HUH????
He also had the nerve to say he wanted to keep in touch. I told him NO WAY! I would not do that because I would continually be hoping/thinking he was coming around and that’s not fair to me. He said he understood because he’s been there. (Heck, yeah, like his ex gf who texted him while we were on vacation).
The thing that hurts me the most is that he bonded with my son and my son with him last week. Now, I have to explain to a 7 year old why EUM is not coming around. I am furious that he would do that knowing the relationship was at a dead end.
The thing is, I probably knew from the outset this was going no where. He and I have very different lifestyles. I have advanced degrees and am very successful professionally. He claims to have a college degree but what it really is that he graduated from army flight school. I am a professional who works usual office hours. He flies a medical helicopter, works 12 hour shifts – days one month, nights the next and works every other weekend. Even if things worked for us, I would hardly ever see him. Every other month, he’d be going to work before I got home from work and coming home as I was leaving for work. His days off would be during the week while I was at work. (He said his wife of 10 years divorced him because “they never saw each other.”) He has grandiose desires for a large house and a vacation house in Telluride. (The condo we stayed in is 700 sq feet and on the market for $325,000 and its at the low end of the housing spectrum up there). He makes $80,000 a year and lives in a 1500 sq ft house. I make over 3 times that and have a larger house that is extremely well furnished that he “feels uncomfortable in.”
In a way, I feel relieved because I have felt this brewing all week and had already started processing the grief. I am terribly sad, though. I dread the triggers that will come over the next few days, weeks, month.
Fortunately, I DON’T think he’ll be coming around for an ego stroke!!!
Hi Judy,
Just to quote your post:
When he didn’t call back, I called him again and left him a message telling him I was breaking it off. He called back and said he couldn’t understand what I said because it was garbled. I told him what I said and he said he really doesn’t see the relationship progressing because he doesn’t feel the emotional attachment he should be feeling by this point in time.
I think you have been obssessing on him and doing the over contacting thing a bit. But, beyond that, he said everything you need to hear in that text message. “he really doesn’t see the relationship progressing”. End of story, in a way, right?
You are right to be mad. Use that feeling to try to get beyond this man. I would think you need to be concerned with the welfare of your 7 year old who “bonded” with him and now has to deal with the fact that he will not be there anymore.
Be strong, I can tell you are. I think, personally, that the no contact rule, might be best for now, for you.
Hope you are doing well. ts.
Maybe I’m bad, but I immediately went and reactivated my profile on the online dating site he and I met on! I also reactivated my profile on another o.l.d. site and have had 2 winks and 2 e-mails. I don’t need him!
Thank you TS. My son is at his Dad’s for the weekend, so he is being well taken care of. Thankfully, that gives me time to get myself in check.
whow Judy,
Slow down. Reread the need for validation post here. Why are you going onto dating sites as a way to validate your disconnection from your current situation? You have a kid to think about. Obsess about him, he is the one that needs your attention and love right now.
Sorry, just my opinion. Take care of yourself and your son first.
Be strong. ts.
Judy,
I agree!!! Focus on your son!!!
I think you need to ask yourself why you need a man in your life so badly, it seems like you’re trying to jump from one to the other for some sort of ego boost, why not focus on your child .
Amen! Don’t gravitate from one AC to another, which is essentially what you’ll be doing, considering you’re not over one AC yet. Be on Dating Hiatus and don’t validate yourself by getting a wink or a prod from cyber-men! Read posts about being a ‘Happy Single’- all great posts under ‘Single and Loving’ it tag.
I’m sure you’re a great mum so put all attention on your son and yourself.
PS if that is the same site you met the 1st EUM I suggest you run away. All the best. Remember the NCR
I took down my profiles. I put them up in the hopes hed see them and maybe feel a little less good about himsekf. Didn’t sleep well. Want so very much to send the t-shirt I bought on vacation and the pics of EUM and me to the 27 year old, but know I’d look like a nut. I’ll just throw it all in the bin.
Had a dream last night where I knew he was seeing someone else and told him he knows where to find me if it doesn’t work out. His response was that he really doesn’t see that happening since she’s the nest thing that ever happened to him.
yes, yes, yes, YES!!!!!! An amazing post! So true! Thanks, NML!
Judy I feel your pain…and it will be there for awhile. Just know that there is no easy way to get out from under it. You’ll have to do the “hard work” on yourself or else you’ll end up with more a**clowns….and I think you’re on this site because you’re sick and tired of the BS. Your EUM is a jerk and I hope that’s validation enough. Be gentle to yourself…you deserve it
Need some perspective. I have maintained NC for a month and actually doing ok. The AC still has permission set so I can see his calendar and some shared files, I removed his long ago. I don’t want to look to see what he is doing, but sometimes can’t help it!! I get all bent out of shape and upset when I do look. My question, why would he allow me access to his world if he does not want me, and can I get him to remove my access and maintain NC. Mike, any advice?
Ladies, it is true that healing and dealing comes in waves. Yesterday was a bad day for me and I had to do some soul-searching before I came back to myself and reality.
This is work! It is harder to keep away then to fall back in line with the AC. It’s what we are used to and comfortable with – even though we know deep inside that it is not good for us. …
Fallingdown, he wants you to keep up with him, of course. It’s an ego thing. Stay away from any information about him – you know it just hurts like hell. I used to do the same thing. It was like punishing myself. Stop punishing yourself. Be good to yourself. I know I’m trying really hard – especially as the dreaded V-Day approaches … ((hugs))
Hey Mike,
My ex-EUM did string me along and if I had listened closer and trusted myself, I would have bailed a while back. He told me that he dated a woman who wanted to have baby with him and she would pay him the amount of money that he needed to take care of some business. He told her “no” and that he already had a 3 yr old from his divorce. Well he got divorced when his child was 3 yrs old, so in what time span did this convo take place? Weird that he told someone this right away (financial situation) so due to her offer. My question for you Mike. When I met him he told me about his friends, childhood and more recent like 6 years ago or so. He did not tell me nice things about them, but some rather unsavory things. Mind you I did not come from a background like the ones he described in his friends and how weird he would tell me some things that they would be embarrassed if I knew or anyone for that matter. I remember saying to him, “Well what part of you is like them, because you wouldn’t hang around them if you weren’t like them”. He answered that he was nothing like them. Thoughts?? Why would he focus on the bad in his friends rather than focus on what’s good about them?
When I think about all the crap that I took from him, my stomach becomes acid and reading what I typed makes me ashamed because it is from a horror film or something. I have been NC with this character for 6 months now and I don’t miss his sh*t.
FALLING DOWN and ANNIED,
I too keep putting him on my buddy list and taking him off repeatedly, just to see if he is on…then when he’s not I start obsessing about him being with someone else…I have to stop this behavior. I’m good at NC, but then I find myself doing this. I’ll be fine for a day or so and then I do it again…I wish he would get out of my head completely.
I went on a few dates…one guy didn’t ask me any questions about myself…and when he dropped me off, he didn’t wait to see if I got in the door…the other guy told me his entire history and laid out all of the baggage immediately on the first date…I have to trust my gut and think neither of them are good candidates for a relationship…what’d you guys think????? So, what happens to me is I start thinking about I felt with the ex EUM in the beginning and start to miss him…ugh….I wish that didn’t happen…maybe I’m not ready to date…but…how long does it take???????? It’s been 3 weeks of NC (he contacted me during holidays) and it was 3 months of NC before that…we’ve been on and off for the past 1 1/2 years…it’s totally over forever now…but if I could totally shut it off in my head I would be so happy!
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Finally … I totally understand what you are saying b/c I do the exact same thing. I would love to shut off my brain and keep my ex out of my thoughts completely. For me it is impossible. Lately I’ve pushed thinking about him back so far that he is showing up in my dreams. Constant struggle.
Somehow, someway we have to DISconnect ourselves from what is going on with them and their lives. These guys are not ours. They never were ours. They aren’t home wondering what we are doing unless they are afraid we are having sex with some other dude … and that is almost like a property right in their minds.
I’ve been on one date (in the 25 days of NC with the AC) and it was not good. He was very nice, but I felt no spark. Been talking to another dude online and I see myself pushing him off as well. No, I’m not ready! I dont think you’re ready either.
Dont beat yourself up over it. I’ve had thoughts about my ex on and off all day today. And it’s okay. I loved this bizarre person and I feel good about that. All I did was love him. If he doesnt want it – oh well. It does not make my love inferior or wrong. These guys are the ones missing out on a good woman, imho. 🙂 Chin up!
Annied –
Thanks for your kind words…it helps to know that there are other good women out there who are going through the exact same thing. I agree…my ex EUM was never really mine and I’m sure he’s not really going to be “the next victim’s” guy either. He kept his profile online for a long time after we met and didn’t take it down until I said something…a few months later I find him on another dating site!!!! He never had the intention of settling down, yet wanted me on a string and available to him whenever he wanted. I had to break up with him, because he would have strung me along forever…two and a half years was long enough. Tonight I’m going to see the new movie “He’s just not into you.” Hopefully, I’ll have a few laughs….I guess two and a half years takes awhile to wash out of one’s system!
I know I am getting stronger and more sure of myself, if only the thoughts of him would lessen. I guess it will in time. I have to try to refrain from watching to see if he’s online…I’m good at refraining sometimes and at other times, it’s so hard.
I know what you are saying…I truly did love this guy…..but he couldn’t commit..and I should have listened to his words, his actions and my gut…but I wanted to believe that it would change. I guess it’s a grieving process.
Thanks……..HUGS!
My goodness. Seems like these jokers (including the ones I’ve dealt with) read from the same got-damn handbook. Their behaviors mirror each other almost perfectly.
Many of you are very strong to not have taken a bat to your former EUM’s car or house windows. :-/ (Goodness know I’ve had urges.)
Here’s a quote to keep in your memory:
“Self appreciation eliminates the need for external validation.”
Judy,I recognize your story from another site. I’ll post more later when i can. I’m glad you’re here. I think the advice offered here is much more useful.
This article is great ..
Every time I go to dwell on exEUM I remind myself I cut him off and the reasons why I did so and then proceed to cut him from my thoughts .. It is getting easier because I know from this web site and all the stories and articles NML writes and most importantly because of how I am I did the right thing … I do not need his validation to live my life yipeeeeee
I was reading a book on EUM’s called “Men That Can’t Love” and it said there are three ways they like to end relationships.
First, they do something so disgusting or outrageous that is pushes you over the edge.
Second, they spend less and less time with you until the relationship has nothing left.
Third, they disappear without a trace, one guy actually left when his gf was taking a shower. How f’d up is that?
On the first one, doing something disgusting, it states they usually hook up with another woman and get this ladies, since they dont’t have time to form a new relationship they find someone from their past. WOW. This happened to me…a former gf. How many of you has this happened to?? I almost fell over. These men are an open book. How totally cruel, especially when we all think back to how much of ourselves we gave to them. Unreal.
Actually I made a mistake on the title..it’s “Men Who Can’t Love”
Myalmostover-who is the author of the book?
What if you were brought up in a family who in a sense devalues your decisions because every time you make one, they basically tell you why you shouldn’t have made that decision and make excuses for the other person? I’ve tried to ignore them, but they still give opinions, and I don’t want to keep them out of my life, because they’re my family. Also, since I’m cutting the assclowns and the not-really-true-friends out of my life, I’m finding that I’m alone. And I don’t care what any of you say, no one wants to be completely alone. Humans need some interaction. You go and have no one in the world to talk to ever and then try to tell me you don’t desire some sort of human companionship…. So, what do I do?
Veronica,
I think it is vital to set boundaries in ones life. Perhaps you need to do some reflection to discover why you’re introducing and allowing dysfunctional people into your life; it’s all about our choices-exclusion being family members. Honestly, I would rather be alone than be in toxic relationships.
I believe you need to get out and make new friends. Get involved in clubs, take courses, do volunteer work, there are so many options available.
Veronica, what is important at this point is change management. Sacking off all of your friends and family is not the answer to everything and would no doubt cause you to feel isolated. However….you can’t sit there and say that x,y, and z behave badly/don’t respect your boundaries and then wonder why you feel upset. You don’t have to get rid of your family – you need to put some boundaries in place by adapting your behaviour, otherwise if you don’t and choose to continue to accept it rather than deal with it, nothing is going to change. They may give their opinions, you don’t need to do anything with their opinions – they’re just another option. You make a decision. Instead of running to them and telling them what your latest decision is, just do it and stand behind your decision. When they comment about it, instead of sitting there letting them run their mouthes, interject and say ‘You know what – I’ve made the decision but thanks for sharing your concern’ or get up and say ‘Gosh, I hadn’t realised what time it is – I just realised that I have an appointment at X…’ as soon as they start up. Create a diversion that silences them/cuts them off each time if you don’t feel that you are in a position to outright state – you are belittling me. If they do some of this by phone, set a time limit for the call – for instance 10/15 minutes. The moment that they say something that crosses the line, knock off five minutes of whatever time is left and tell them that you have to go. Let their calls go to voicemail and control the contact with them. You call them back when you’re ready and over time you will teach them that their opinion will be asked for when needed. Turn the tables on them – deflect back to them and ask ‘When people second guess your decisions, what do you do in those situations?’ Suddenly they may not have very much to say.
Life is about interacting with people. You will get opinions from anybody and everybody and you cannot control everyone – instead you control the relationship that you have with them and stop giving them so much power.
At the end of the day, if you have surrounded yourself with people who disrespect your boundaries, this is the time to adjust your behaviour.
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Hi Veronica,
I want to let you know, you are not alone. I have been going through the same thing, only by choice, thanks to this site. For me, (I’ve mentioned it many times before) I just couldn’t live the way I was living anymore.
I too have had personal and many family issues that I am taking the time to work through, it is not easy work. Everything in my life was and is fantastic, except for the relationship part. For the past several months I have been removing the layers of toxic emotions that lay deep within me. Now that I have been working on it for a couple of months, I know that until I uncover and release what has been preventing me from a deserving, appreciated, respectful relationship that I would be jumping right back into the same old relationship which is not acceptable to me anymore.
No, no One wants to be alone, including myself. Maybe a time of reflection, a time to work through issues that are rolling around in your head (that just maybe you have had a fear of confronting) and leaning toward friends that you feel confortable with and trust enough will help you with any wounds you may be suffering.
I have cut several friends during this period because I am finding out about me, they just didn’t work in my life anymore. Gaynor is right that getting involved in other activities will help you get your mind off of the AC you’ve been involved with but it doesn’t fix the wounds you are trying to heal. Everyone wants to be held, loved and cherished but for the right reasons, not because you need human companionship. If you can’t be alone with yourself and like yourself (which I have felt many times) it will be hard to find someone else to fill a void you can’t fill yourself, I have discovered this about myself.
Just some thoughts since I can relate to what you are going through….Gail
Betterwithouthim……the author is Steven Carter.
Myalmostlover, yes number one happened to me he hooked with what he said was a “long term friend” .. interesting and disgusting and I was certainly outraged at that time..
Sounds like an interesting book..
Recently and ehy I ended the whole ‘friendship’ thing was he was testing my boundaries to see if I was still willing to have sex with him
so he could do the samr with her as what they did to me .. that was too sick for words for me and the final breaking point.. shame I didn’t cut it all off and had to try the friends route first.. still life moves along and I can think I tried and it failed …
Tulipa…..same here. After we broke up, several months later he contacted me and wanted to go the “friends with benefits”route. …so esentially I’d be trading places in my own relationship?? WTF?? We talked a few times but I’m so disgusted with him I just don’t want to have anything to do with him. It proved one thing to me. He hadn’t changed one bit and can’t make a true committment to any woman whether he pretends to or not.
You can’t fault yourself for trying the “friends” route. But you find out very quickly that it’s not going to work. Why would we want to be friends with men that betrayed us in the cruelest way?
As for the book, you should read it, it’s an eye-opener.
Hey Tulipa,
You tried, you now know it will most likely go nowhere. Please, don’t torture yourself any longer with this man who is making you feel so unworthy, or undesirable.
Maybe, just take a step back. Don’t contact him in anyway, observe what he does, or doesn’t do. That will tell you a lot. You deserve to be cherished by a man. If this guy is not doing it, then, cut him loose, let him go, and figure your own self out right now.
I hope you are ok, and that you can find courage through this.
Take care. ts.
My Almost,
Did he actually suggest doing “friends with benefits?” Was this a relationship where he had previously declared love for you?
These guys are such pigs!!!!!
Gaynor……..He didn’t come right out and say FWB but that was the implication. I had been doing NC for several months, he would contact me off and on during that time but I never responded, Then I guess I got weak and picked up the phone. He acted like we never split up, it was surreal. No apology, just chit chat like we always did when we were together. I could tell he wasn’t happy with his new “relationship”. The very thought I was going to be his “buddy” and let him cry on my shoulder about the woman he cheated on me with was beyond the pale. He hinted about sex and I knew I DID NOT want to go down that road. After speaking to him a few times I put a stop to the communication, even though he continued to call. I never want to talk to him again.
And yes they are pigs.
Gaynor…..I forgot to answer your question. Yes we were in a two year committed relationship. We had made future plans, we spent all of our time together, he declared his love for me over and over. We were planning on moving in together, he said I was “the one”. All that, blah, blah. In the end it meant nothing.
My Almost,
I am so sorry.
I cannot imagine what is going through these a$$holes heads to believe that this is OK. It is so sick!!!! This is sadism at its best!
I’m curious, what were the problems he was having with the new one? A little fast, isn’t it?
Myalmostlover
My ex-EUM would disppear, not call and any other $hitty behaviour then act like nothing was wrong. The first time this happened I doubted myself. Didn’t he hurt my feelings? I know I didn’t dream that because I’m still hurting!
Anyway, I am amused (I’m at that stage now where I actually giggle at some of his BS lines and manoeuvres) that there are other pricks out there pulling that same stunt.
I wanted Twatman to admit that he treated me awful and that I deserved to be treated better. Then I decided to hell with that. Why would I need validation from someone lilke him? So I did it myself.
*Recovery*
I have not posted or visited this site for a few weeks because I have been healing to the point of not needing to think of my x as often. Its been 3 + months with no contact. And when I did it I just cut it off by telling him ‘This does not seem to be working for us anymore”. Period end of story. I did not return his emails or any of his texts. And I know that he knows full well why I ended it. There was no mystery and nothing to discuss.
I have been really working on myself, reading, writing, talking and being absolutly determined to extract this guy out of my life. By going no contact this way I have increased my self esteem… what NML said: by learning to accept and reject behaviour, you send signals to your self-esteem that teach you that you are a person of action who has her own trust system that she can always rely on.
That paragraph put a big smile on my face because it is exactly true. I do have more self esteem, I do feel stronger even though it hurt like hell for a few months….but I did it – and I can rely on myself now. It has not been all that long but I do not miss the ass who treated me so badly. I am grateful that I trusted myself enough to stop being the door mat and ending a relationship that was painful to me.
Thank you NML. Those are some very good suggestions that I will try to implement with my family. The suggestions to get out and volunteer to occupy my mind are good as well. However, there aren’t many clubs or activities here to meet new people. It’s a small town. It consists of mostly old people and high school aged people. I live here because my family is here. If I moved too far away, I wouldn’t have access to anyone. And no one wants to have no support system whatsoever.
Part of the reason that people are “let into” my life is because like I said, there aren’t many places to meet people and I believe the term would be desperation- not because I don’t like being by myself or can’t, but because after so long of being by myself, sometimes it’s nice to just have someone to hang out. Plus, my parents are not in the picture. My grandma raised me. So, not only is there the gap in age, she’s also getting worse with dementia. These are things that would be nice to have someone a little closer and trusted to be there, but those kinds of relationships take time to form. It’s not easy to just go out to a club or whatever and find/form a decent friendship.
Veronica,
I didn’t meet a “club” I meant clubs that may include your interests. Have you tried meetup.com? Or, is there a neighboring town that may have more options? Volunteer work is very rewarding, and you will also meet like minded people
Gaynor….The problem he’s having with her, from the little I dared to talk about it, is she’s wanting what we had…a committment leading to the M word. Well we all know how that worked out for me. Apparently this isn’t on his agenda….wow what a shock. I guess she’s as blind as I was but at least when I started dating him he wasn’t cheating on someone else. So the fact she knew he was in a relationship and went for it anyway shows what kind of woman she is. She deserves him. I had to cut off the phone calls from him because it was making me sick. The fact he was complaining to me about her was actually laughable. I’m absolutely sure of one thing, their “relationship” is doomed, He will never be faithful to any woman. He proved it by trying to hook up with me again. Just sick stuff.
Cynnie…..Boy this all sounds so famiiliar. The disappearing thing started very gradually late at the end of the relationship. We were chugging along, no real major problems, supposedly in love and then he started disappearing on weekends, not the whole weekend but say one day. Just wouldn’t answer his phone, you know the drill and then he would re-surface. His excuse was that he was tired. He never really tried to come up with anything too elaborate, just tired. Uh-huh. Then it started happening on a regular basis and that’s when my radar went up because up until that time we had spent most of our time together. Of course he had started seeing someone else so the disappearing act was that he was with her. It started becoming more and more of an issue and then the lies really kicked in. I guess he wanted to have us both. I was absolutely going nuts from the whole thing, crying all the time. Just trying to figure out what happened. It was just awful.
I wish I could turn back the clock and never have met him. This has been one of the most ego destructive episodes in my life. I can’t even say that about my xhusband.
Yes, recovery….it’s a long road back.
Hi. I’m new to this site and at the age of 47 have been put through 9 mths of push/pull by an EUM (61 year old adolescent). I am at the wanting validation stage!! He has done a runner everytime I hint at wanting a “normal” relationship. he has never been available at weekends and has kept me at arms length. I have fallen head over heels in love and I do believe that he really cares for me and wished he could do the relationship thing. He did a runner before Christmas after telling me that he had overlapped relationships by a month when he first met me (charming). I decided that these things do happen at the end of relationships and give him benefit of doubt (with radar on). He would send me a “text” weekly to keep in touch. After 6 weeks I saw him again, we had big talk. Made mistake of letting him seduce me. He left saying (and appearing) that he was extremely confused. We had a bit of run in over broken date a week later. I haven’t heard from him for 2 1/2 weeks now. I am told to not contact him but the silence and being left in limbo is literally driving me insane. How could he just go dead silent? Our conversation was heavy but we left on as positive note as we could have considering the circumstances. What is with this going silent thing?? There is no closure. Can anyone help me out of my misery??
Firstly thank you myalmostlover and ts for your kind comments.. I really do intend to keep my distance from him.. Unreal isn’t it myalmostlover that they have enough of an ego to think we want to hear about their relationship troubles.. I couldn’t care less to be honest I know what the troubles are they would be exactly the same as all his other millions of failed and doomed relationships…
I guess we don’t have the ability to turn back the clock it would be 2 years since I met him on Feb 17th and I keep thinking back to years ago when i was in two minds as to whether to attend a friend’s b’day party or not if I hadn’t we would not have crossed paths but oh well live and learn .. sometimes I seem to always learn the hard way ..
Perplexed he is staying silent because he his seeing if he still has control over you and to see if you will weaken and call him what a great big boost to his ego if you do contact him !! he will know without any doubt he can get away with his behaviour no matter how much he says he will change he won’t he will just feed you lies and what he thinks you want to hear all because you contacted him..
My advice may seen a little hypocritical coming from me but I would not get involved any further with him and if he chooses to contact you its because it is all about him and his ego… RUN well you can… silence really is a form of closure you are not his mind so don’t allow him so much of yours …
Thanks Brad! Some good examples. Not all are feasible because I want to try and find people my own age (which is 26,) and not high school-aged or too much older. I want friends, not another set of parents, nor do I wish to try and squeeze in between children or spouses. Not that people with families can’t make time, it’s just another added difficulty to a friendship- one which a single person doesn’t really relate.
Also, aside from my job, I take care of my grandmother, so I don’t really want to volunteer taking care of children or more old people. I think I might try to find a dance, self-defense, or exercise class. Church is a good idea, but I feel kind of blasphemous going when I don’t believe in the same things as I used to. I appreciate all of your ideas. Thank you!
Brad….I absolutely blame him for what happened. He is unquestionably the one that cheated and betrayed me. But believe me this woman was very, very competitive in this whole situation, without going into detail. I think he liked seeing two women in conflict over him. I never asked for that. It caused me a great deal of pain and sorrow. Putting myself in her shoes, I would not get involved with a man that was in a relationship. That’s just the way I roll. She knew about me and decided to go forward anyway. As I said they deserve each other. I have no sympathy for either of them.
Tulipa and Brad
Thanks for your response. I have never chased him. Never initiated contact when he has done the runner. It almost kills me not to pick up the phone. He tells me he keeps coming back because he likes me too much. My common sense says to run but I can’t let go of the hope that he will work himself out. This is a big shock for me as I am someone who is not afraid of commitment and am finding his behaviour hard to fathom. I really need to find coping strategies on how to get it out of my mind day and night so it stops taking over my life. I have been amazed to find that sites like this exist because it is such a problem out there. Puts me off dating all together.
Tulipa…..It’s true, these men have huge ego’s but also are very insecure so they constantly need ego strokes to prove they’ve stil got it. As you said, all their past relationships will mirror their future ones so I guess we don’t have to be rocket scientists to figure out how they will go.
I still look back on it all, as I’m sure you do and wonder how I ever got myself involved with a man like this.Of course he was blowing very hot then and I didn’t have much dating experience, coming out of a long marriage, so that might have been part of it for me. You seem like a very level headed person who was was just blindsided by an EUM the way I was. But now we’re more informed women and know the warning signs and how to listen to our guts when something isn’t right. In my case I regret trying to hold on to him when I found out he was betraying me. I should have cut my losses and run. But hindsight is 20/20 and when you’re in love it’s very hard to let that person go, as all of us on this site know very well.
Actually, I have to admit (confession time), what I really want is for the fairytale ending to happen. I am having such a hard time letting go. I am scared that this is something that I will never be able to get over. All of the reading I have been doing tells me it is his problem but unfortunately, I am starting to take it personally. This is like living in a neverending nightmare. I am frustrated with him and even more frustrated with myself. AAAAAGHHH!!
Hi Perplexed,
Sometimes, I feel, to get out of frustrating thought patterns, you have to practically rethink or reframe the pattern into a form that you are not comfortable doing. I think of it as an exercise in thinking. If my current pattern isn’t going anywhere new or productive to solve the problem at hand, I force myself to think it out with all new equations, possibilities, and alternate results. I allow myself the “safety” of knowing this is just a drill, an exercise. Often, it is painful, because I am confronted with results I don’t want to believe at the moment. But, I feel that at least I have “plugged” that result into my thinking, even if, for now, I need to ignore it, to not be so devastated. I feel what you are going through. It is hard to let go of someone you really thought was going to be right for you. Take care, ts.
Thanks ts. I know what you mean. Am trying hard to retrain my thinking. It can be a real battle especially when the painful things come up. Thanks again
Hey Perplexed,
Yes, it is a battle. Pain is not a great or fun thing to feel, by any means. But, the struggle is a battle worth fighting. A battle to gain control over our own happiness. No man, no person, should ever deny us that. You know yourself better than any other, honor that. Take care. ts.
Perplexed,
I read your initial post, and afterward, I immediately thought – Noooooo, don’t contact him! Looking from the outside, I realized how objective I can be when I read about other people’s EUM situations. Yet, when it comes to mine, I know it’s easier said than done to move on!
I tend to think closure doesn’t exist with EUMs. Whatever reason they give for their behavior or lack of interest isn’t going to change them or the relationship. Their reasons won’t be what you want to hear. So regardless of why he went “dead silent,” I think it’d be more helpful to focus on your healing. It’s exhausting to be with in a relationship with an EUM, and it continues to be tiring because we put so much thought into the EUM.
I try to remind myself that it’s highly unlikely that my ex-EUM even thinks of me. Oh, well, maybe for a split second. Of course, this makes me annoyed, but it’s all the more reason for me to stop thinking of him! He’s not worth my thought time!
Hey Miki,
To quote you, “I tend to think closure doesn’t exist with EUMs”.
I agree. I have always felt this “need” for closure is a tricky and slippery slope anyway.
The closure all of us need, is that “he” is not really there, in a real way. End of story, right?
Time to let go. Focus on ourselves now. Figure our own stuff out. That seems to be the key.
Take care all, ts.
Hi everyone. Thanks for the support. I am going out of my mind. He’s confused and now has me confused!!!! The B@#$#@$!! I know I have been here before and I am told to expect him to contact me again and I know that I will probably give it another chance as I don’t feel quite strong enough to just walk away yet!! I also fear never hearing from him again. I can’t believe how well these men screw with our heads and all the time they seem to think that they’re ok and “being kind” (heard that a couple of times) by doing these cruel and thoughtless acts. Dumbfounded would have also been a good name for me!!!
Perplexed,
You must recognize that he’s not going to change and he is who he is. You need to accept this.
One thing that we have all learned from this site is that it is not all his fault, we must look at ourselves and recognize that we also have issues if we have tolerated this sort of behavior.
Do you believe that the occasional text and get-together is a healthy relationship? Are you feeling fulfilled in your current situation? No! Honey, this guy has already shown you he has nothing to give, see him for who he is and move on. Trust me life does go on without these idiots, actually it is a hell of a lot better 🙂
Perplexed,
They screw with our heads if we allow it!!!
Wow Perplexed,
It is a good sign that you found this site. Dumbfounded? At 47? I am curious, why now, after a lifetime of experience, that you are that? Why this guy? Just curious. Take care, ts.
ts,
To quote you, “The closure all of us need, is that “he†is not really there, in a real way. End of story, right?”
Right! At the end of the day, I think that’s all we truly need to know. EUMs don’t have the capacity to be present and involved in relationships. We shouldn’t accept a partnership from someone who gives less than 100 percent. EUM’s cycle of leaving and returning into the relationship doesn’t work. As Heidi Klum says on Project Runway, “You’re either In, or You’re Out.”
Hi ts
At 47 I have been in 2 long term relationships. I married young and was with my husband for 20 yrs. I then had another 7 year relationship so I suppose I have not had the experience!! I am pretty honest and have made the mistake of believing that most people essentially are. Guess I am finding out how wrong I can be. At 47, getting this experience is pretty painful and scarey!!! Why this guy??? He has provided something that I have been looking for all my life. I really felt like I had come home. We get on that well when we’re together. Sounds corny I know but without going into a saga, I can’t explain it any better. We are on the same level in so many ways. I suppose that is why it is so hard to let go. he is a very foolish man but then, maybe I am the fool!!
Hi Gaynor
I have no doubt that I have issues and I know that I am a part of it too but (in my defence), I haven’t treated him unfairly as he has me and have tried to be honest. I suppose I tolerated it but I tried to “gently” tell him what I expected and that I wasn’t happy. I should have been tougher!!! I should have walked instead of talked!!! Lesson learned. I am not blameless but his behaviour has been pretty over the top in comparison. My biggest lesson (according to therapist) is that I have to learn to be selfish.
I’m hoping life is a lot better. Thanks for the encouragement.
Perplexed-You’re lucky to have found this site. The folks who post here share their trauma and those of us who have already experienced similar trauma or are in the midst of our own are able to help you and others through this.
This site is a safe place to vent and you’re getting some really good advice. So please heed the advice, take it to heart because those sharing are really trying to help you get back on your two feet. We all want you to succeed in being happy, and assclown free.
In the last post to TS you commented that “We are on the same level in so many ways.” But in reality you are not. You are not like him, he is not offering you a relationship but rather manipulating you to believe what he wants you to believe. He is managing down your expectations by playing the dissappearing act, and various other means/tactics.
You’re in denial. We have all been there and are trying to help you see the real EUM that he is. You are wishing, hoping for someone who really doesn’t exist, he has proven that to you time and time again. Still you are believing what you want to believe. Please read more of the NML’s posts on this and the comments which follow. You will begin to learn and see the true colors of his charade, but you have to be willing to change yourself, and your current way of thinking to accept he is not what you want him to be. He is exactly who he is.
Perplexed you deserve better. You’ve had a marriage, and a long term relationship which have ended. Look within yourself for what it is that you maybe searching for in some assclown. Don’t settle for crumbs, and text messages, start NO CONTACT and stay that way then refocus your energy on you.
When you become anxious, and are having difficulty post here. You’ll get feedback and then the anxiety will pass so that you can regain your focus on what really matters, and that my dear is you.
Take care.
Perplexed….I’ve been where you are, You think you’re with the man of your dreams. When he’s good he’s very, very good but when he’s bad…. well you get the picture. All of us on this site were in relationships with EUM’s so there’s lot’s of experiences here. Our stories may not be exactly the same but the outcomes usually are.
Try to put yourself first and think of where you’ll be in one or two or more years if you stay in this relationship. I know it’s hard to let go, it’s one of the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. All I can think now is I wish I had those two years back. I wish I had never met him because as wonderful as he could be he could be equally crueler. In the end you find yourself chasing an illusion. A man that doesn’t exist and never has, only in our minds. We’re all trying to tell you we’ve been there.
Annied just posted on an older blog of NML’s: Coping With and Moving On After a Break Up Commandment 4: Thou shalt stop doubting yourself and get angry…
Perplexed might be a good read for you….Gail
A bad day of missing and longing for the good qualities of AC, and after reading some of these posts realize once again that they are all cut from the same fabric and I too easily forget all of the tears for the past year. The text messages, phone calls, and the get togethers when it was convenient for him. His schedule, not mine. I had a dream about AC last night, dreamed that he contacted me and said nothing. Been in no contact for about 5 weeks I think. Thought he might call for an ego stroke by now, but no. Still in love with AC, ok with that. There were some wonderful qualities, but this is not somebody who was willing to stand up for me. Like a previous post said, when they are good, they are soooo good. But when they are bad… just awful. Somebody out there with NC for longer than me please tell me it gets better as time goes by, this was a hard day.
Gaynor, thank you for your very kind words and apologies for late response. Have not replied btw and am glad I posted here instead. Good luck to everyone..
Hey fallingdown,
I am 3 months out now. Wow, starts to kind of sound like an AA meeting, right? I can’t quite explain it except with cliches, it does get better or less worse with time. Let all the strange and uncomfortable thoughts stew in your mind and eventually they do start to make some sense, like a good recipe. A recipe for your own recovery or own redefinition, as the case may be. Change and growth are never easy, remember being a teenager? But, keep on course and being good to yourself and what is good for you, and it might just all work out in the end. Hope so. Take care, ts.
Hi. Thanks for your messages even if I am not in the place to want to accept them all yet!! Am fighting the urge to call him even though I have never been the one to call first before. This is the longest he has gone without contacting me in some way. He told me that he runs when the going gets tough for him. Looks like I really hit a nerve this time. This is rediculous!!!!
Boy am I realizing how truly messed up I am. EUM and I broke up 5 days ago. During the break up call, he did give me the opportunity to vent, get closure, validate, whatever. I am craving contact with him and have been fighting it furiously – not so he will validate what that he was the “bad guy” and I was right and he wants to get back together, but so he will validate me as a person and not reject me. That hearing from him will mean I am worthy and pretty and smart and that I do have a personality that he wants to be around. WOW! He treated me lukewarm almost the entire time and I still want him to want me.
I hear ya Judy, same thing for me. Treated me lukewarm at best, which triggered me to keep giving without boundaries in an attempt to avoid rejection. Yuck. Destroyed my self worth and now feeling very foolish for letting AC manipulate me like that. I didn’t get any closure, and reading the posts now think it wouldn’t do any good to have it. Same result, it’s over and move on. Easier said than done. Keep up the NC, seems to get better day by day (with the occasional bad day).
Ok so its “VALENTINE’s DAY” in our office today and unfortunately i work with my xEUM (its been 2months since I broke it off with him) and perhaps i feel a little gloomy that he isnt even thinking of me? I guess in a way I am still seeking some sort of validation from him although I know what a jerk he is. I am really hoping that this seeking validation and understanding from him will really completely dissipate one day as it seems to be the hardest part of the process for me. I was not only a good girlfriend to him but a GREAT FRIEND and I guess it still hurts that he lied, cheated and hardly recipricated during our 2yr relationship and that in the end I had to break it off because despite me trying to talk to him and get him to understand why his behavior was unacceptable and why it was hurting me soo much— there never really was any change– just more denial of him doing anything wrong (they are just friends) he would say and “you know my life is soo full of pressure and problems… if i could do this and that for you — believe me i would do it” UH HUH…. EXCUSES! I just couldn’t take it anymore. So the question I keep asking myself is WHY oh WHY would I want him to do some form of a gesture of kindness towards me on this Valentine’s day (and any other day for that matter)??? Have I not learned that he just isn’t going to do it… that he is an A**clown and me sitting here expecting him to have compassion, empathy, appreciation or anything remotely close is like waiting for pigs to fly??? I guess I’m not completely there yet….:( My question is– why do we keep looking back at these men? Why do we keep seeking validation from a place where it does not exist? I’m in therapy trying to understand this part of myself but Im wondering if anyone here has a better explanation?
Hi Karen, I really feel for you and wish I could give you some help.. working with him and seeing him is not helping your cause to get over him.. but with the economic climate the way it is I don’t know if you can change jobs or not.. to eliminate him from your life is one way I guess.. but if it is not possible then I guess you will have to do some serious mind re training..
To a point I do this myself.. everytime I think of my ex eum I tell myself it is over and finished and the reasons why it finished.. you have your list already there ‘he lied, he cheated, he never reciprocated ” this is your truth that you need to feed yourself with it along with the truth you deserve so much better than what he offered you.. there are also plenty of stories on here where the guy has come back and the end result was exactly the same ..booom. I honestly don’t think I have read one single success story about an EUM turning around and going oh you were fabulous and turning into a great guy..
He does not deserve you and you know this because you finished it with him..
I recommend the book ‘Obsessive Love when letting go hurts too much” by susan forward.. it gives many helpful insights and exercises to do to get him off your mind.. as well obviously reading the posts here ..
Good Luck Karen.. and you are good enough whether anyone or noone wishes you a Happy valentines day .. why so much fuss is made over one day is beyond me …
Loved this article… trusting myself and validating on my own was definitely a lesson that I struggled with and still building… but none the less have taken action through my own judgement. There was a saying, affirmation “I accept and trust you no matter what people think or how unacceptable it maybe to others, in knowledge that the only difference between a flower and a weed is judgement!”
It was tough, (life is I know…) but growing up I didn’t have healthy parents… my Dad never validated me after his abuse therefore I didn’t develop a healthy self esteem and through these painful relationships I choose to learn from them and build my self esteem. I even ended a friendship I felt was toxic based on my core values all by myself this year, if it was last year I would have had to consult with everyone, getting all shaky but I was confident and assured… When it comes to dating which I am not really focusing on … I don’t pick up the crumbs — don’t really recognize the men not worth my time. I loved your articles — and I wish you alot of luck with them.
Hi there. Im a guy and have stumbled across this site whilst looking for some answers to my relationship imploding just like that. If I desribe the scenario can anyone shed any light and am I right in thinking all of this applies to me
Ok basically met a girl in October. Everything i wanted, and I am for her apparently. we take our time, declare our love in december and make plans for future togther. Our lives our both in a flux in terms of jobs, location so made sense to allign them a little.
Everything is amazing up until mid Jan, then she seems to just back off slightly. She’s been made redundant so under alot of stress, but I think Im supporting in what ever way she needs. Anyway the ‘little things’ that make it romantic and are the glue …. you know texts, calls when you say you going to etc … start to dry up. I say Im feeling as if its changed, maybe a bit insecure. I still get the ‘I love you’s’ I guess
We have a talk about it, im still not conviced as she just says ‘What more can I do’. I do a stupid thing like look in her phone. See innocuous text from ex, hers is deleted. Its ok though as it was plain. Anyway I do tell her, think its inappropriate, but hey. She blows. Keeps me at arms length saying it will take time to get over this for her. I struggle with the total lack of intimacy, reduced contact. I want to talk about the situation to resolve it and move on and get back to normal. She just doesnt want to talk about it point blank ….. sh blows ….then walks out on me just like that. No contact. Nothing
It was all ‘I love you’ ….. to after last 4 weeks …. absolutley nothing. She cant talk about stuff and refuses to deal with issues. Now I have no closure and am struggling to come to terms with this.
Told her i was sorry for all my mistakes, insecurities. But I thought we had something really special and would always be able to work anything out by good communication, dealing with an issue and moving on
I’m not sure if I’m the Ass Clown here that you all talk about. I promise I did try, and more than happy to resolve stuff. She says I just wasnt supporting her emotionally enough through her redundancy.
Or am I on the other side of the fence, and she’s the ass clown
Any ideas? … much appreciated
I think she sounds like the EUW in this relationship. It sounds like you guys were just starting out too, so I don’t understand how it got so serious so fast. I think it’s best if you move on.
Matt,
I am just guessing here.
I think looking at her phone did something monumental – it broke through the glamour. Because I think she was presenting an image, a dating facade, a make believe image of herself and her romantic image. When you found the text, though, that knocked a hole through to the underlying life. Maybe what you found was of interest, maybe not – but she was no longer covered with the image she intended you to see.
Perhaps she was about to come unraveled anyway, and the phone thing wasn’t really an issue.
At any rate, she wasn’t over her ex. Whether she was seeing him or not, she was still investing thought about him. She was unready to turn to you. I have no idea whether she was interested, was using you, was desperate, no idea at all. But she wasn’t ready, yet, for a relationship.
NML wrote a recent post about how many emotionally unavailable people use text messages and emails instead of regular phone calls or face to face encounters/visits. Life may be a-Twitter, but love grows in small walls, with shared breaths, with hand-in-hand time. It doesn’t sound as if you were communicating and bonding nearly as much as you thought.
Closure is really big in talking about relationships. The reality is that you seldom get truth and closure at the same time. Usually you just have to make a choice – decide where your best course lies, and pursue that course. Whether you made mistakes or not, it doesn’t sound like you have much choice. Accept that there is nothing left with this woman.
Allow yourself to heal. Consider why you are interested in adapting to someone else in your life. Consider what you have to offer. If, in the future, you find someone that you want to know better, consider the difference between what she needs, and what you want to give. And consider how you tell her needs from your desires.
Look for great character, respect, and compassion. The rest matters much less than you think.
hi guys …. thanks for your replies
Mariposa
I guess I wanted to take it easy at first, she instigated the ‘I’ve fallen in love with you’ ….. we both were happy to take things easy but it was just evident we were falling for each other. We still knew we had a long way to go with things
Brad K
Interesting comments. Im guess I’m at the stage (its a week today) that I just want her to contact me and we get back to it …and am finding it difficult to accept such quite deep ‘ideas’ as to why. I’m hopeing its just her way, that she is angry and will come round in time
I also know this may not be likely and never happen. I live in hope
Anyway thanks for yur comments. Food for thought
Just hope I can get through this quickly
Hi Matt – I don’t think that this is about being an assclown on either side and I certainly can’t say whether you guys will work this out but what I do know is pushing her to work it out will push her away. You need to step back and work on your own closure because even though you may think she holds all the answers, she doesn’t.
We have to be very careful when we say that we are supporting people because we’re only supporting them if it’s the supporting that they need. This is why when you think you’re being supportive and you get negative results, it’s best to ask them what they actually need. This is highlighted by the fact that she said you didn’t support her enough. Now this may or not be the case – some people just flail around for an excuse.
I also know if she has been made redundant then your insecurities or even thinking about rosy futures may not have been at the top of her mind. That said, the whole ex thing goes and throws a monkey wrench in those works. But then, you going in her phone demonstrated that your relationship had reached a low that you haven’t acknowledged because if you were prepared to do that, things must have been pretty bad. Even if she has been in contact with her ex, and who knows, maybe it’s innocent, you sent a clear message.
Much as you may want to talk and get back to normal, I think you’re expecting a bit much and you’re also disregarding her feelings as you’re totally focused on what you want – right now you don’t both want the same thing and that is a problem. I agree with Brad that I don’t think things were as great as you feel they were and whatever contact she was having with her ex, she seemed to have shut down to you.
Leave things be and let her sort herself out. You also need to. The time for communication and working things out is during the relationship, not after, especially since it was such a short relationship, so I don’t suggest waiting otherwise you could be in for a long wait.
Hi
thanks for the comments NML
I sent her a letter last week apologising for my words and actions. Not justifying them. Explained how I realise my mistakes and how I could have supported her better in the way she needed. Im always opent to learning and growing as a person and new ways of dealing with issues.
I realise that our relationship was better placed somewhere down her priorities so she could focus on the task in hand better. Me going on her phone was a low point. For us both really and i need to work on those insecurities. i did push her away with trying to sort it out and this I now all know
Apart from the letter to let her know that I could see things more clearly now I have not contacted her and left her to sort herself out. She text me yesterday to say thankyou for the lovely letter. Its been a week since she left. She has now secured that dream job. She says she will reply to it once she finds a new place to live where the job is and settled. I’ve replied and said well done. I look forward to hearing from you when you are sorted
I intend to get on with my life left best I can, strengthen up, work on the confidence and insecurity issues. getting back to me. If it works out great … if not then there was a reason why and i should be in abetter place to move on. I do miss her but we both need that space and time. I’m being very good and wont contact her as hard as it is and trying to live a bit more in my own world
Hopefully its a positive result and but hey ….
Bit of space and time can only do us both good whichever way
thanks for your comments they are all appreciated
What an amazing site. I love how supportive everyone is, and my situation so parallels so many of the stories. I feel very foolish for staying in a very long-term relationship with a guy who sounds like just every one you all have described. I finally reached my limit a couple of years ago, and have gone cold turkey since then. He tried to get back in for almost a year, but I was still so hurt and angry, and we had gone through the push/pull, back and forth deal enough times. I hurt like crazy, but I couldn’t do it anymore. That’s the good news.
He retired, moved away, but I have to see him once a year for a convention I can’t avoid. It’s coming up soon and I’m dreading it. He runs around there with the woman he claims is just a friend. Then he tries to come around to tell me how beautiful I am and how much he misses me. Last year I just walked away. He tried calling once after that but I didn’t pick up. I saw him down the corridor a bit later and he glared at me. It’s all so upsetting still, and I hate that. I don’t want to even admit what an idiot I was to tolerate all I did. I just want to be able to be there and not miss the good, fume over the humiliation, and beat myself up anymore. He was a real jerk, but he could also be wonderfully sweet, too. His sense of humor was incredible, and like Perplexed, I loved the good. He was trained in the mental health industry, and I probably cut him slack I wouldn’t have cut for anyone else. I trusted not only him, but who I thought he was. I’ve been in therapy for a while now, and reading this site tonight has been so helpful….I want to be O.K. I think I vascilate between denial and a reality that’s hard to be with. I want to accept what was, and to forgive myself for my part in letting this go on as it did. I do feel shame, and I feel stuck between my bad feelings and the ones that still remember the good.
My parents were almost divorcing during much of my childhood, and I think I became addicted to hope. I made a decision early on I would never be in that situation, and when I married, I married someone wonderful who would not hurt me in that way. Still, we divorced 20 years, but I don’t blame either of us for its ending. He is a good person, and even though we couldn’t stay together, he’d have my back and I’d have his. I wasn’t prepared for this situation. I don’t want to feel that physiological gut-wrenching feeling when I hear my a$$ clowns name or see him running around with his friend. I want to feel indifferent, and I don’t know how to do that. Will keep trying. Thanks for listening. It has helped just saying this.
hi. i have been involved with a young EUM for nearly two years. we play music together so we travel together. he has a history of a taking care of a mother with psychiatric issues, his first love breaking his heart, and general fear/avoidance of committed relationships. i was the first person he really let in after three years. yes, he chased me down. i could offer fifty billion explanations for his ambivalence, and my own, but… we all have our stories.
the pattern in our relationship is we become extremely close and intimate and when it is really good, he seems to panic and cut me off. though cutting me off is more like looking through me in my presence, and literally running away at the end of plans. but he still calls every day or writes, wants to spend time together, even when pulling a disappearing act.
he definitely communicates a vibe of “can’t commit to me can’t bear to let me go.” clearly not healthy to be in that limbo. our initial conversation a year and a half ago, about “what is going on between us?” involved him articulating concerns of wanting to be a good man to me, marriage, and babies. he is younger and worried the two latter issues were my immediate priorities. they were not. someday they will be, I explained, but I was mostly concerned with/excited about enjoying each other and making this new connection as healthy and honest as it could be.
his best friend said to me, “he’s met the girl of his dreams and he is young and terrified because he doesn’t feel ready.” our push/pull dynamic endured until he went away on a trip a year ago, came back, and he seemed very distant. we had a talk where I said, “I can really handle any hard truth, awkward confession, “you want to be single” “I am older and that is intimidating”, “you have been/want to see other people”, “this isnt working” “I am not in love with you” whatever it is, it won’t shock me, i can really handle any of it. none of those possibilities are “bad” just real. but no words at all is the most hurtful most destructive course of action and will yank our friendship up at the roots.”
we had this exact conversation three times over the past year after several “pull me super close, push back” episodes. each time he says he is just paralyzed with confusion. that there is no simple explanation and that he wishes there were. he just feels paralyzed. he tells me the only women he has ever loved and said so are his mum, his old girlfriend and me. i do believe him.
all of our friends, loved ones, family—especially the tough love pals that I count on to tell it like it is—assess that it is a truly confusing situation to observe. that there are enormous feelings and palpable affection but also palpable fear and reservation.
ok. enough background. and there is heaps more, mind you. there always is.
the cycle, whatever it is about, needs to stop. because it is exhausting, so upsetting, and confusing to me. during the “push back” phases he started becoming extremely rude and defensive. And I enabled it and did not stand up for myself.
I allowed myself to be sucked into the ambivalence. and it made me deeply unsure of myself. I felt like a phantom and of course, I was complicit in letting myself reach that impasse. which is very upsetting. as he abandoned me, I abandoned mysef.
after his last “I’m confused…but I love you, let’s talk about this another day”, one week into this new year, I decided I needed to detach from the destructive cycle. I was tired of feeling so sad and fearful of him and myself. I chose to look toward actual love and life in myself. I needed to take care of myself! no words I could say, or plans we had, etc was making any difference in the day-to-day. I couldn’t fix the situation.
as I work and travel with him in a musical group, NC is not an option. my decision was to focus on me and my time and to stop half living my life. and not try and fix this situation any more. just stop focusing on him at all. Just let go. I have been good about turning off my phone, not emailing, not reaching out, very selectively responding to texts and being cordial but not heart on sleeve in my words. I am not being cold shoulder/drama queen about it. Just trying to make some positive life decisions about me. And not in response to him (though it is, in part, but telling him so is not helpful).
in response, he actually really got his act together. clearly went through the archive of our correspondence, all the gifts I ever gave him, reflected, wrote to me a bunch about it, started reaching out to me for “dates”, running errands for me, gave me an unbelievable birthday gift, and generally just came around.
that was January/half of February.
then he went on a recent trip with another group, and came back….looking detached again. who knows why. confused again. met other girls. doesn’t matter. what mattered was seeing we could make progress and he could retract even after that was terrifying. because yes, hope had been creeping back again.
and so i started the process of protecting myself again. not responding to texts if they were just anecdotal (not band question), not being available. and he came around again, but I cn see he is still ambivalent.
I love him a lot. but i need and deserve more. he cannot commit. but cannot let go. i want to share my heart with someone who can commit and doesn not want to let go of me.
Next week we have to travel together for music. Including two days at my parents house. I am scared. And hope for a calm heart in a challenging environment. Sleeping arrangements each night are particularly nerve wrecking because I already feel myself thinking “I want to sleep alone, but I want him to want to sleep with me, I worry he will not want to sleep int he same bed with me, I want to sleep in the same bed with me.”
absurd and true. I am laughing.
I guess I am not here to ask questions. Just trying to organize and breathe before intense close time together. I know it will be confusing.
And I know regardless of his confusion, I need to be sure of myself. I want more. I want a healthy, consistent relationship with someone who can’t help but be ready for it.
Been reading a lot of the articles and posts and suddenly I can make sense of a relationship that made no sense. I had my moment of Epiphany about 3 minutes into finding this site! My and my EUM have finally come to the end of the line. It has been the mother of all rollercoasters for going on 3 years, but finally I see the bigger picture. I wish you all luck and happiness in finding a better future, and thank you for such a fantastic site – I wish I’d found it a long time ago. x
“You don’t need him to say ‘you are right’, you don’t need him to apologise, and you don’t him to creep around you saying how full of regret he is.” Gawd, but this is exactly what I DO want. I have been waiting for this!!! I stare at my email Inbox (0) hoping for exactly this.
But this is so true: “you are literally throwing your life away and bringing it to a standstill whilst he’s off leading his merry life” Yes!
I put my life on hold for almost 6 months and he’s already been in and out of 2 “relationships”– which means HE HAS been wining, dining, courting, getting sexually intimate, having fun, having laughs, flirting, romancing, dancing, phoning, emailing, enjoying the thrill of the chase….
while for nearly 6 months I’ve been emotionally immobilized. I only just started to move on emotionally (outward appearances: I seem to be doing very well)… and he’s already had 2 “girlfriends”.
I feel stronger just reading these postings. People say “oh he’s a jerk” and yes that’s true, but it didn’t allow me to let go like these articles do. This helps so much
Like so many of the women responding to this post, this one was the epiphany; the post that pulled it all together to make sense. I broke off a relationship of eight years, six of which were good ones, because he was distancing with no explanation, acting out in ways that bordered on cruel, making excuses about his health as the reason for that and for no sex, drinking to excess, smoking to excess etc. It went on for way too long because he wanted me to be the bad guy and end it and I was struggling like hell to understand and fix things. I still don’t know what happened and probably never will.
What I understand now is that I don’t need to know I was right because I was right not to accept any more of his crap. I was right to put him out of my life and I am right not to wait around for him to validate that. Why on earth would he anyway?? He thinks he did nothing wrong and tells everybody I am a needy bitch. Yes, I needed both of his feet in the relationship, I needed some respect, and I needed a man who is with me because he loves to be with me. Since I wasn’t getting that, I was unhappy.
This hurts, don’t get me wrong, it hurts a lot. My dreams are crushed and my hopes are dashed. But I know I am better off and this will pass and right now I am more at peace than I have been in the last two years.
“At some point you have to let go, accept that things are what they are, see him for what he is, opt out of the crap, and be good to yourself. That, ladies, is true validation and understanding…of yourself.”
That’s what it’s all about… Thank you NML and thanks to all!
hugs xx
Rosanna
“At some point you have to let go, accept that things are what they are, see him for what he is, opt out of the crap, and be good to yourself. That, ladies, is true validation and understanding…of yourself.â€
I agree that statement right there says it all…Thank you NML for sharing all your wisdom and advice with us in times when we feel hurt sad scared weak frustrated and confused -what it all comes down to is being good to ourselves and being the best that we can possibly be..whenever i feel weak and tempted to give in and break the NC with AC i come on here and read your articles and it keeps me from making that mistake and boosting his ego and making him feel like he’s really somthing special when he never made me feel that way..plz keep writing!! xoxo
please keep writing xoxox
truly grateful for the inspiration and influence. you hit the nail on the head i’ve been reading a lot of books similar to what your saying, and it confirms my fears. letting go it part of a process to learning more about yourself. it hurts like crazy for me but it seems necessary to evolve and develop more important relationships rather than wasting time and energy and life on empty unfulfilling relationships.
thanks
for your words of wisdom
HI Fay here..am new to site. I am laughing because I am thinking of when the last AC phoned several months later to ask (incredulously)why I dumped him. I explained patiently why I was not going to invest in someone who treated me with no consideration..I then provided detailed examples and asked him if he ‘got it’. He replied NO(rather emphatically)!
I think thanks to this and other posts that I am finally getting it though:)