In this two part post, I want to talk about two themes that consistently run through comments on this blog where the person is finding it difficult to move on and stop obsessing and analysing:
1) Feeling validated by the other party after the relationship has ended
2) Getting the other party to understand your perspective or to understand where they have gone ‘wrong’, what they have ‘lost’ etc.
Validation and the concept of the other other party understanding you and ‘getting it’ are intrinsically tied to each other…and unfortunately, you would do far better to get back in touch with yourself and validate your own self-esteem and thought process through self love and understanding, than you would to keep pursuing the holy grail of poor relationships.
The first thing I will say is this:
If you didn’t feel validated by him when you were in the relationship, the likelihood is that you’re unlikely to get validated by him when he’s out of it.
We tend to seek validation in the form of him:
realising that we were an amazing woman that they’ve lost,
realising that they were indeed an assclown,
pursuing us after we’ve dumped them/done no contact,
recognising their ‘issues’,
recognising that what they did was ‘wrong’,
and having a thunderbolt of clarity that leads to them racing back into our lives and us living happily ever after.
For any of these things to happen, he needs to understand not only what the issues were that led to the failure of the relationship, but he also needs to actually give a monkey’s about you, and potentially want to be different…for himself.
For a start, many of the men that fail to validate or ‘get’ what it is that is the problem, have a lack of empathy that can sometimes associate them with being borderline narcissists.
Some of these men have the compassion of a stone, some live on me-me-me island, some just can’t see past their nose never mind their penises, and some have absolutely zero interest in understanding a damn thing that comes out of your mouth. In fact, whatever they say, they have very little real interest in you! It is about their needs, their wants, and their expectations – what you need, want, or expect is not part of the equation.
Often, and this will be hard to hear, you don’t want him to validate or understand you because you care about his welfare and want him to be a better person for him, regardless. You want him to do these things for you.
Herein lies the problem because not only do you still need and want him on some level, but you don’t realise the favour he’s doing by being his true self, and you don’t realise that you cannot impose change upon someone and if they have to do a 360 degree turn to fit into your idea of the relationship, in fact, if you need them to change full stop for it to work, this ship is not sailing! I know we have been raised to believe we have to raise a man from the ground up and that we should just change him when things don’t work because we know better, but actually, we don’t. You are throwing your emotional energy into the abyss…
They’re disconnected from themselves and don’t really do introspection so you’re expecting quite a lot of them.
You want him to see something that he just doesn’t see. I see one of these guys and I think ‘assclown’. They look at themselves in the mirror and think ‘I’m a great catch, I just haven’t found the right woman yet and she’s just crazy and needy.’ Do you really think that people who think like this are going to think ‘Ah..she just wants me to understand…’? No, they just think you’re even crazier and needier, and that they are justified in their behaviour.
You’re still expecting and even though you may feel that you are justified in this thought process because of everything you have been through, it’s a bit like taking out a bad investment and then investing even more emotional money in trying to make it a good investment.
Sometimes it is best to cut your losses, recognise how you ended up making a bad investment, and move the hell on. Yes it will be painful, yes it’s a loss, but you can minimise the effect of the loss by controlling how much more energy you invest. I’m not saying you can’t feel upset about a bad investment; I am however saying that there comes a time when the wallowing and the obsessing has taken its hold on you for too long and you’re using it to avoid dealing with the fallout of the bad investment and taking charge of your own happiness. Whilst some people do seem to be at their most comfortable when they’re miserable and blaming others (not a good thing), most people should be uncomfortable with being like this.
People are unpredictable and just because you think, feel, and act one way doesn’t mean that the object of your affections will think, feel, and act as you do.
If he’s not in the relationship, and you are, whether that’s because you have what you think are both of your feet in the relationship whilst he has one or neither, or whether the relationship is over but you’re still invested, he’s not going to be validating anything but the negatives.
If your relationship has none or rocky foundations and doesn’t have strong boundaries and values at the cornerstone of it, you are unlikely to be on the same page. We choose men that reflect the things that we believe about ourselves, love, and relationships and at the end of the day, if you’re seeking validation from a man you’ve been engaged in a poor relationship with, you can’t possibly be someone carrying positive beliefs.
Why? Because you don’t need this guy to validate what you already know. Whilst acknowledgement and retribution in the form of him having an epiphany about himself is nice to have, it’s very unrealistic, and ultimately it won’t really change much if you don’t learn how to validate your own beliefs and perceptions. Plus you could be in for a long wait…
If you know what he did was wrong, you don’t need him to validate that judgement.
If you recognise that you are being disrespected, and he doesn’t, it doesn’t matter because you’re the one who has made the judgement call. Why do you need to teach him anything?
More in part two.
Your thoughts?
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This is a really, really good post for today, for me. I haven’t been reading or posting as much lately as I am now nearly five and a half months out into NC and I don’t find myself obsessing about him nearly even close to as much as I once did. I do, however think of him still and wonder if I will ever get my pound of flesh – that he will someday say “I was wrong” in some way, shape or form. Not apologize, of course (although that would be nice), but acknowledge that he treated me badly and that I’m not some crazy person. His new relationship that became serious after we stopped seeing each other (that he started while we were together) I’ve heard is starting to crumble already and I find myself waiting for that other shoe to drop when he makes contact – if he makes contact. I have digested much of what I’ve read on this site, but the validation – boy it’s a hard piece to give up – because even though I don’t want him back (honestly I don’t), I do want to be right. This post has helped me see why I still think about him as much as I do – because I want that piece to fit – the end of the story. It also makes me see that I don’t need it and won’t get it because it doesn’t exist. Bad investment – totally great example. Stop waiting for the bank to apologize for stealing your money – they don’t care.
This is a necessary post that all women who continue to chase EUMs have to read!!
I am gladly no longer pursuing the EUM I was with. In short I met one EUM who cheated on me, whilst still invested emotionally with him I started the next ‘relationship’ with another EUM who lied about breaking up with his fiance … and here is the clencher – they were both my supervisors at work!
After emailing NML, she made me see sense – they were both in competition with each other and they did not care about me. They did not think about me or the other girls they were with. All they care about is themselves, and their pride and balls, which I have to say are small to say the least!
I cut contact but the second EUM still email / text / called … saying he missed me and wish we could be friends! I idiotically still spoke to him and met up with him (for coffee, no sex calls, although it would have probably lead to that) But now that I have left that part-time job I have cut contact with both. And I was even more glad that I did because the next thing I know, he is telling me that he kissed a female, married manager!! HELLO?! SHE IS MARRIED!! And what was she doing kissing him?! Well I realised why he told me this – to make me jealous and to have me chase him again. Well when a guy gets his rocks off by hurting girls and puts the attention on who-can-beat-who in the pushy-pulley game, then he just aint worth it!!
Both have made me realise some relationship issues that I never knew I had … and this site has shown me how important it is to trust in your instincts and to have boundaries.
Just recently I was helping a male frined with relationship problems – he said that he has been with his GF for 3 years and was interested in the single life. Next thing I knew he broke up with her and didn’t want to be in a relationship again for a while. Now, I liked him but realising what he said I didn’t do anything, until one night he kissed me and told me he liked me. I told him I didn’t want to be with him because of the fact that he said he didn’t want a relationship – so I kicked him to the curb. I was soooooo glad I trusted my instinct because after that he goes and kisses one of my best friends on one night out in town – HOORA(!) Oh I was indeed extremely angry, and I pushed them both onto the floor – shame it wasn’t in front of a bus! So I was glad I was right not to trust him – my gut was shouting at me “Run Away!” and I listened =) Needless to say that she is no longer my friend and I am learning to pick out EUMs! Right now I am a single happy 20 year old who cannot wait to graduate this year from an Honors degree! There is a guy decent enough to treat me right, and looking at it statistically – I have met enough EUMs that the chances of me finding a good guy should be high =)
Everyone…. please read and re-read this part of NML’s post. It is exactly what men think!!
“”You want him to see something that he just doesn’t see. I see one of these guys and I think ‘assclown’. They look at themselves in the mirror and think ‘I’m a great catch, I just haven’t found the right woman yet and she’s just crazy and needy.’ Do you really think that people who think like this are going to think ‘Ah..she just wants me to understand…’? No, they just think you’re even crazier and needier, and that they are justified in their behaviour.””
Mike – I agree!! my ex eum was also a narcisstistic jerk, he was never going to ‘get’ the way he was treating me – whilst I was with him and certainly not after!!! he would constantly tell me he could have any women he wanted – and constantly go on about what a decent guy he was – he was actually a lying cheating manipulative very abusive man who put me through 2 years of hell & treated me like dirt, the part about ‘shes crazy & needy’ makes me laugh out loud as that exactly what he would say about me despite his dispicable behaviour!!
Thanks NML for this article. It helps my logical engineering brain let go and not try to make sense of it.
I’m also wondering because of how many people are raised today with everything handed to them on a silver platter and never had to do a lick of anything for anyone, that there are just far more ACs these days?
Allison, I think you are making progress recognizing the lurking AC and launching before anything happened.
Almost all of the posts I’ve read come from what seem like very intelligent, well spoken, women. From what I’ve gathered most of you are college educated (or well on your way there) yet, these men seem terribly beneath your intellectual level (not to mention emotional level).
While I don’t think anyone on this site “dumbs herself down,” I would say that many of you aren’t using your intellect to your full advantage and these men know it. Believe me, nothing is more intimidating to a man than a well educated, well-spoken woman. So use it… and tell these men you already have one a-hole….. and you don’t need another!!!
Wow – this hits the nail on the head. I am still very much in the obsessive mode. I caught him cheating on me about 1 month ago after 8 years and he had very little to say. When we did talk he was perfectly situated on that ‘me me me island’ and only talked about how much ‘he’ was hurting from hurting others and how ‘he’ hated himself and how all ‘he’ wanted was to be a nice guy and well liked, blah blah blah – basically playing the victim when he committed the crime!
Of course this was followed by he wished he hadn’t made the mistake of cheating (although he was nowhere ready to stop seeing her) and how he wished we had our lives back like they were before because he hated his life now (but still not ready to stop seeing her). What does this all mean? Keeping me on the string until he sees where the new relationship goes? I’m going nutso.
I thought talking to him would give me the validation I was looking for -that he realized he was wrong and understood the pain he caused but the contact with him has only caused me more pain and confusion. His words and actions do not meet – he says he wants me but does nothing in that direction. I should have known better to make contact but the obsessive addiction to see/talk/contact him has been too big for me to overcome as of yet. I can’t seem to get past the 5 day mark without doing something stupid. If only I can make it 5 weeks or 5 months with NC, spend that time on my own ‘me island’, then things will get better? I hope. 🙁
Mike,
What made you see the light??
QT,
Why in the world would you want this lying cheating creep back? I hope you are not waiting around for this clown? How would you advise a girlfriend in this situation?
Gaynor
It wasn’t about me seeing the light as you put it. It was about me trying to give the ladies some insight into how men think. I never for one moment thought that any of the women on this sight were unintelligent – just too emotionally invested at times.
Mike – I love your kiss off line – awesome 🙂 . As for dating guys that aren’t good enough, In NML’s book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, she wrote that this type of dating down practice is a characteristic of women who like fixer-uppers because they are afraid to date at their own level – either because something in them believes that if they were with someone on their level, they wouldn’t maintain control or the better guy might recognize some perceived flaw and reject us – or both. I think lots of us girls on this site (cough, cough – me included) are guilty of dating someone that they knew from the get-go was not good enough of a guy, but went ahead and “took a chance” for the reasons NML wrote. I will say, though, that once you start dealing with those misconceptions and self esteem issues (I’ve been doing it in therapy), the attraction to d-bags starts to go away and you can start to clearly see when a guy is just not good enough for you.
QT – youve hit the nail on the head already – hes keeping you hanging just incase his new relationship doesnt work out – you deserve a thousand times better!!! read NMLS posts – often words & actions with these men dont match, they will tell you what you want to hear to keep you dangling but there actions will be doing the exact opposite!!
I know how you feel in the obsessive mode, its the worst, but youve got to somehow stoo wasting your energy on them & put the focus back on you.
Hard facts are, he cheated on you after 8 years together – is still seeing the other women now whilst stringing you along at the same time too – is he really worth it??
I wasn’t referring to your input on the site but in your own personal relationships. I believe you had stated last week-could be mistaken-that you were previously one of the EUMs
I look forward to part 2 of this article – but NML, you really said it all in part 1. I knew all the things you said (somewhere inside myself) but I wasnt ready to really believe it until now. 🙂 I like what Mike said too. Many friends and family told me that I could do “better” than this AC and I almost think I was just being stubborn and ready to prove them all wrong. Ha.
For the first time in a long time I feel OK about being single. I hope I learn to like it – and like myself in the bargain. My ex is trying to communicate with me at work (b/c he cant get me in my usual ways – IM and email) … and I am throwing up brick wall after brick wall. I just cant go there anymore. It feels both good and bad to be done.
Annied,
Can’t you speak with a superior about the harassment?
Hi Gaynor, I could do that, but our company is not doing well (cutting hours, increasing insurance) and if he lost his job I would feel responsible, whether I really was or not. Guess that is the goodie-goodie in me.
But you’re right, he’s got to stop – it is really bothering me. I was just thinking about this at lunch. I dont want a confrontation. I guess I need advice here. I want to tell him to stop talking to me, but I dont want to seem pathetic – I want to appear strong and mature.
If I send him an email that says, “Leave me alone.”, isnt that breaking NC? I dont want a discussion. I just want to be let be. As you can tell, I’m not well practiced at placing boundaries. Any ideas?
You guys are great! 😀
Annied – just continue with the nc, he will soon get bored, once hes not getting a reaction he will start to look somewhere else for an ego stroke!! ive learned the hard way – that any reaction, even a negative one keeps these men going, honestly, even a ‘please leave me alone’ will be interpreted by him as ‘shes still angry with me/she still wants me’ stay strong & you are already being very mature, you must be nearly there too if you dont even want a discussion with him so well done!!
I think it makes me even more disgusted to know what these men are really thinking. It is truly all about THEM! The contacting us (if they do) after the break up— THEM! The saying I love you and what you want to hear just to get what THEY WANT! The HOT in the beginning then COLD…….Them! Everything (I noticed) has nothing to do with wanting to forge a relationship with another person— or getting to know us or care about us but more so of what they can GET out of another person. That is so sad but what is more sad to me is that not enough women (and men) are aware of these A-holes!!! Had I not stumbled upon this site I have no clue where I would be! And I can’t think of how many women out there are in a situation just as this scratching their heads wondering what on earth is going on! We at least have the advantage of coming here and getting informed and finding the support to get through this. I don’t know— it certaintly does come down to our own issues and self esteem but I would have to agree with the many women on here that we still can’t help but to want to be RIGHT. Just like BBP said– I dont think I want him back– I just think I want to be RIGHT and it would be nice to have him truly and sincerely regret many things and me have the opportunity to say NOPE! SORRY!! SEE YA LATER but thanks for admitting you are a complete A-HOLE– its all I WANTED! Perhaps its the betrayal or the knowing that we were taken advantage of that hurts the most and its only human nature to seek or want to hurt someone back— ESPECIALLY if and when you know it was intentional!!! I mean— how is that excusable not to mention forgiveable? If someone deliberately vandalized your car wouldn’t you want to somehow get back at them? Especially when there is no remorse on their part??? Somehow cutting contact and moving on just doesn’t seem like enough. Im sure this has to do more with being angry at ourselves than anything else but thats the part that Im still trying to figure out. I look forward to part 2 of this as well. Mike– would like to know if you have any comments on this as well.
But like I said– I don’t want him back per say— but can’t help to still want his sorry A** to ACTUALLY FEEL SOMETHING! Im learning from this post and being here that they are damaged…and somehow that sort of helps. I guess you wouldn’t expect a cat to meow or a dog to bark and then be mad or hurt that they cant…….they are just not capable!!! Maybe that helps? I know thats what helps me…..to look at him in this way and feel sorry for him and the next victim that falls for his crap…. but to truly think that they continue to look in the mirror every day and say: I didn’t do anything wrong…. She was the needy one, oh well– let me see who will give me attention now etc etc… makes me sick!!! How is there justice in that? Maybe thats what I seek…. JUSTICE in this whole thing!! Its just not right!!!
I know I dated down in this case. He was much younger, much lower on the socio-economic scale.
It was funny sometimes the looks when we were out because he always wore raggedy dirty looking clothes and unkempt(ALWAYS playing the downtrodden victim) and here I was dressed all neat and appropriate yet; HE was embarrassed by me, because of my age lol.
My problem is this. I am not in my 20s 30s. The men who are in my intellectual and socio-economic level seem to want to date down and just go for very young arm candy.
Are there really any men at my level who want someone at my level?
NC really is best! Sure it will hurt for awhile and we will whinge for awhile and then before you know it, you won’t be thinking about them at all but rather thinking, wtf was I thinking! 🙂 …or better yet they won’t even be in your thoughts at all. I know I have gotten over guys completely before and I will again.
Annied, nevergoingback is right any response is a response to these people. Just completely ignore him. He walks up to you, you just walk away without a word. He doesn’t exist. He’ll get it.
I logged on at lunchtime and this post wasn’t up but here I am in the evening, reflecting on an email sent earlier today that I shouldn’t have sent and this is just what I needed to hear. That’s me, I am someone looking for him to see the light, to realise that it’s ok to blow hot or cold but not both. I’m not even hoping to be with him, I just care about him and hope that if I spell out what he’s done in this relationship he’ll learn something about women and won’t make the same mistakes in future. But I know I’m kidding myself. No contact is the only way. I’m finding it so very difficult to forget and let go and just knowing he’s the one who’s behaved badly doesn’t seem to stop me caring about him or just craving a hug from him. Even so, what I can do is just to not contact him – just one day at a time. And spend some time with other friends who clearly care for me as much as I care for them.
NML, I’m so glad you put this up on the post today. For the last 16 months (the age of our daughter) I have been waiting for him to validate me. The reality of it is he will only acknowledge me for being a great mom to our daughter. (which I already knew HEE HEE) but when it came to how and why he ended our relationship, to appoligize to me and my kids, to acknowledge me for being a women having feelings investing, time, money, love and all that, he would never do..it upset me and I became very obbsessive and what not, but I’ve come to realize that for him to admit doing me wrong, or any of the above would be admitting he was an ass clown it wasn’t going to happen….I love this topic because though i was coming to the terms that he wouldn’t do these things, I never realized or knew how i could validate myself to let go and move on….i do have one question though, as far as the N/C rule..I so want to apply that to my relationship with him, but we have a daughter..I don’t call or email him first. But I have told him that it would be better for me if he would have his family contact me should changes be made concerning seeing our daughter and also that my 15 year old,, or my good friend bring the baby to and from him, so that there is no contact to be made between the 2 of us…he’s bothered by this has called me selfish, childish and what not, but for me i need the time to let go move on and what not…is this unreasonable for me to do?? or is this an ass clowns way of being controling? personaly I feel he knows if i see him, and deal with him he keeps a hold on me…and of course i don’t want that..
IT TOOK ME BEING HEALTHY TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
A year ago, I wouldn’t have “gotten it”, and now I do, with almost indifferet tolerance for b.s.
Wanting HIM to change/apologize/come back means I haven’t gotten over him yet at all.
The focus really DOES have to be on me getting healthy, me having good boundaries – and then bad behavior/an assclown is of no interest.
I don’t need to tell him what is wrong with his behavior – because I regognize what is unacceptable, I don’t have time to waste on someone who has already shown me he’s a jerk.
I don’t want him to change. I don’t want him – PERIOD.
Thank you NML for where my life has gone since finding your site 9 months ago. From drama/mess/ineffective/stuck to clarity.
I may be alone, but I’m not hurting anymore – and blindly repeating my mistakes – and that counts for a lot.
Loving Annie
Gaynor
I guess I could be considered an EUM on some level. I am not looking for a serious relationship – at the moment – but I am very clear about that when I meet a woman. If she continues to “push” me in that direction I will no longer continue seeing her. If she continues to ask “why?” at some point I will opt out of communicating with her, especially AFTER I have told her that I am not ready to travel down “commitment road.” At some point she should realize that I have no intentions of understanding her reasons as to why I should continue to see her. Remember, they are HER reasons.
To Loving Annie….
you post that you “may be alone, but not hurting anymore…” As long as you believe in yourself and know that you can make yourself happy, you are never alone.
By the way, I see my brother has posted his “thoughts” today.
To Karen
Just read your post. The only thing you need to remember is that his bad behvior towards you means that he doesn’t want to be with you. It’s not because of anything YOU did….. he’s living in his own world, doing, acting and thinking the way he wants to. If a guy doesn’t THINK he behaved like an asshole, then he will never admit it. Not even to himself.
You are right to want to know “why?”, but more importantly, you should be saying “Bye”
Mike
Understood. But what about those men who tell you that they do want a relationship– since they are on best behaviour in the beginning you believe this so he leads– I follow. And then BAM! YOu get hit over the head with the truth and the reality that this person was just blowing smoke up your A** because– oh i dont know— it was something for them to do? They were lonely? They were just looking for an ego stroke? I can handle honesty (in fact I insist) on a man telling me– hey– I just want a good time…ok cool– now I know what the playing field looks like and can decide If I want to play or not. I understand and wouldn’t push for a commitment or anything more because you already told me where you stand but at least you give me the opportunity to not emotionally invest myself. If its about having fun– and I want that — than thats how I will approach it but If I have said I want a relationship and am looking for something serious and you agree and proceed to convince me of that only to later say: oops—sorry not the real me! Well– its a little too late at that point because guess what… Im already emotionally invested and im sorry that I didn’t read up on narcissistic men and the psychology behind all of this to know better or to spot that you (meaning these types of men) are no good. Grant it like Maya Angelou once said: You did what you knew how to do until you knew better. I know better now……but once again (in case you can’t sense my anger–LOL) I just can’t get past the lying part to get what you want. Ok– maybe I was naive and perhaps I do have a lot of work on me to do and I certaintly don’t want this person back– but because I do consider myself a smart woman I guess Im just mad that I didn’t see it coming. 🙁
Karen
When you realize that he has been blowing smoke, that is when you should be saying “thanks, but no thanks.” Or the favorite line of my 12 year old niece… ” See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya.” Anyway, you get my point. From that moment when you realize he is a “dog in a manager” ( lifted that phrase from this site) then you are done with him.. not the other way around. Spending time looking for an explanation to anything that comes out of his mouth from that point forward is waste of YOUR time. Trying to figure out what was the truth and what wasn’t, it also a waste of YOUR time. It’s not your responsibility to figure us out….
If you want a serious relationship, then take a step back and watch how the guy behaves around you. Don’t hurry it along… all men are on their best behvior in the beginning. But if they are total creeps, you will be in a much better position to notice.
Finally, I only know of one man that actually told a woman he was looking to only hook up with women without any type of relationship whatsoever. I see him from time to time in a local bar here and he is ALWAYS alone. So really, no man will ever tell you that’s all he wants. I mean clearly you would think we were assholes if that’s what we said. And this site would not need to exist. We may think it, but we wont’ say it.
And no, the man in the local bar IS NOT ME….
Loving Annie:
Can’t wait to finally be where you are (and mean it). It’s been two months since I broke it off with him after a two year relationship. I see him at work every day and I am embarrassed and mad at myself for even allowing this… maybe thats why I feel its taking me longer than I would like. I am sure one day I will finally get to indifference for that is my goal. Not to feel angry or hurt or love for this man but to just let it go and learn from this experience to ensure I don’t get involved with a man like this again or atleast know what to look out for. I guess its a process and I am still going through it.
Good for you and soo happy that you are where you are…. 🙂
Mike, aren’t all guys blowing smoke up a girls butt at first anyway? Trying to impress them and get them? Then it wears off after around 3 months and the real them shows up.
linda, i know you must still care about him to even want a hug from him. its hard not to want that from someone you really like..but its really not our job to teach him anything, we teach our children….heck if you try to teach a normal man something no matter how much he likes you, he will normaly see it as changing him and rebel anyways..so its best just to be the best that you can be as a person with no expectations..as far as him learning from the situation that the two of you shared, and carying that into the new relationship, chances are he won’t or atleast not for along time. It seems to me, that its a maturity thing, and these men are not very mature…..to be honest i would hate to be around to watch the next girl be treated like gold when i was treated like dirt…atleast before i’ve met my prince charming…even then, i’m sure it will still sting, atleast a little..
Mike,
I think Karen is saying that these guys are taking it to an even higher level. Some of these men have gone to the extent of telling women they love them and want a future with them (honeymoon phase). Another problem is that they are the ones pushing the relationship along (red flag ),if you’re not familiar with this behavior you believe it to be a bit fast but you never imagine that it will result the way it does. Personally, I have never encountered this type of behavior, and I would never have expected from someone I believed to be my good friend. Now I know.
Tina
You don’t know we are blowing smoke initially. But when you do realize it, that’s when you need to bail. Like I posted earlier, no man is going to come out and tell you “Yes, I am stringing you along, is that ok?” You just have to be able to determine that he is blowing smoke much earlier than you ladies have been.
Loving Annie – brilliant post & exactly where I want to be & how I want to feel, im almost there & cant believe I spent over 2 years trying to ‘make’ my eum realise how wonderful I was, ‘force’ him to see how much I loved him, the futile attempts to make him realise how he was treating me/hurting me – god it has been the most draining experience of my life.
Mike – spot on again, of course these men are not going to be straight with you from the start – that would of meant my ex saying, ‘actually i have no intention of ever really comitting to you, Im not interested in a loving relationship, im going to lie to you, cheat on you & be verbally abusive for you for as long as I can get can away with it’!!!!
Mike & Karen,
How can you determine smoke blowing when over the term of the relationship HE is the one talking about marriage (lets go to Vegas this weekend and get married!!) and you are the one trying to be sensible in suggesting you wait until it makes more financial and overall family sense (I wanted to wait until he was done paying alimony at least before getting married). Then – after 8 years together, he decides the excitement of being in a new love affair is gone and starts up with a co-worker behind your back. No real intention of leaving until he got caught red handed. Doesn’t seem like lack of commitment was the issue since he was willing to get married at some point – so what was it besides maybe falling out of love with me? Just boredom?
It’s so painful – I relate to Linda wanting a hug from the AC, it is like some sort of craving that needs to be met and all the questions we have of what exactly did I do wrong that something like this could happen?
I’m inspired by your one day at a time of NC and hopefully that will lead to a full week and so on until I no longer care what the questions or the answers are and I can just accept that it happened, he’s gone, and move on.
Sorry if I am venting too much on this – I’m so glad I found this site. The articles are priceless and lift my spirits immensely.
I am surprised at my range of emotions it has only been a week since I cut contact.. I knew I was ready and was doing it with no other motive than for it just to end..I just couldn’t take the b.s anymore.
So far I have been angry.. angry that he didn’t get it angry at me for trying so hard to make something clearly unworkable workable and sad that I have walked the road before and did it again.. though not with quite the same enthusiasm as before..
I do not want to spend time obsessing about it all so I try to do other stuff …
Nevergoingbackthereagain.. exactly as long as they are getting away with it of course they are going to continue on as before.. still we are here and away from them …
QT:
Venting is good– we all do it and thats what we are here for! Most of the posts and the articles I get…its just waiting for my heart to reach that same point– and thats the part that perhaps takes a little more time. I think it works the same way with the RED FLAGS — whether he is being tooo HOT and pushing hard for a commitment too soon. From what I have learned here, it is all about the chase and getting you to a certain point (their comfort level) and then once they have achieved that they either blow cold (because they have you where they want you and have thus met the STATUS QUO) or…. find another source that will give them the attention that they are after. IT seems perhaps you were being sensible and thinking things through (that is a good thing) but if he really cared and respected your feelings and REALLY meant that he wanted to MARRY you– I dont think someone else could have so easily swayed him away from that— which is why I would have to assume that he was only doing it to achieve a “feeling” a sort of an ego stroke for him… and since you werent willing to supply— he looked elsewhere. Because once again– it wasnt/isnt about wanting a commitment but just chasing after a feeling of …being “WANTED” perhaps??? Which is once again all about them and has nothing to do with you.
Looking back I was with someone who was like this as well. I met him online nonetheless and he was all gung ho about me moving in etc…etc… At first I thought it was flattering and then my gut sensed something wasnt right. WE had just met (about a month of seeing eachother) and already he was considering moving out of state for a new job and asked me if i would go with him!!! Thank god I had the sense to be like you– and kept asking him to hold off…. lets take things a little slower etc..etc… (I too was thinking sensibly) and then Just when I thought things were going well…. I found out he was still seeing his ex fiance!!! He denied it ofcourse and I was devastated! How could someone who just one second ago was asking me to move in and move out of state with him …. be cheating on me? What did I do? What didnt I do? It was Totally incomprehensible!! Could he have lost interest in me? Could he have gotten bored? I think he was never really living in reality– and was only saying these things because it sounded good, because– maybe thats what he thought it took to get a woman to stay?? I have a 13 year old son and he had one as well (same age) so can you imagine how me having said yes right away was not only impacting me– but two children as well??? Actually what I dont understand is how he could not have thought how is LACK of thinking was going to impact HIS SON and MINE!!! Once again– like NML says: these men are really delusional! They just don’t live in the same realm of reality the rest of us do. While I can understand why you would think that a hug from this A-clown could make you feel better it is Faaar from the truth!!! He doesn’t even deserve you pointing a finger in his direction let alone an embrace! Please move away from that thought!!
I would read NML’s book (if you havent already) I know I always say that but when I first came upon this site– i was a bit confused at first with what an EUM meant, what was meant by “STATUS QUO” and many other words that are used here to describe these types of men/relationships but little by little you start to understand and it helps to clarify the many questions that you have. I know I for one read these articles every day until it just becomes a part of my NEW THINKING…….until it finally becomes ingrained in me and it becomes like second nature (not quite there yet– but determined to get there– in the meantime– i just vent and seek help here). I know I am determined to get through this…one day at a time. If I fall….I get back up again…. have patience with yourself! To me– its a process. From when I first starting posting to where I am now– there has been progress. As long as I keep moving in that direction I know I am on the right path– however long it takes me to finally get to where i want to be!
WE are here for you!!! Stay strong…keep reading and keep venting! 🙂
Karen,
You’ve come such a long way in such a short period. Keep going, girl!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Gaynor!!! 😉
xoxoxo
Thanks Natalie, you know I had a chuckle on this post, actually more than one chuckle! You are the best…Gail
EXCELLENT.
(By the way, no more being alerted upon new comments posted? Noticed that the checkbox for that is gone.)
Mike, I agree that men just seem to see what they want to see, regardless of what the reality is. It what us media people call hyper-reality in a postmodern culture, haha. He can no longer seperate the real and the fake, they are both the same to him. It is a refreshing turn to see a man post on this, and actually agree that what NML is posting is actually right.
QT, just to comment on your posts, from the EUMs I have met they just say the things that they think you want to hear, or just to get what they want. And when they do not get it, they will try and get it from somewhere else – like I said, it is all about them and what makes them happy.
Thanks Tina, I am just so happy that I managed to ditch him before I got in too deep …
Just remember girls that there is light at the end of the tunnel. To be all zen about it, as my friend would put it, you have to experience the highs to appreciate the lows. The highs will come … fingers crossed 🙂
Mike,
I’m going to get personal here.
You stated earlier that you are an EUM on some level. I would like to know if it makes you happy being a perpetual dater, I mean don’t you ever get lonely and want something that is loving and fulfilling? I would think it would be very tiresome and boring going from date to date to date with no real connection?? Just curios.
Gaynor
At this point in my life, I am focusing on other areas in my life… i.e. work being one of them. I know that as of this moment I am not capable of giving the amount of attention needed to make a successful relationship. Also, to be perfectly honest, I have not met anyone lately that I feel a connection with. But really, it’s not going to be loneliness that makes me want to be in a relationship. When I feel (and want) to give the required effort (as in jumping in with both feet) then I will. And my comments certainly don’t mean that I am meeting women, stringing them along, etc. Just because I do not want a relationship does not make me an EUM.
Mike,
Thank you.
No where did I infer you were “stringing” women along, you made that clear in an earlier post. You also stated you were an “EUM on some level,” just repeating your words. I agree that no one should enter a relationship b/c they are lonely, I was just curious if you were receptive if the right woman did come along.
Gaynor
I do think it’s important to date as much as possible. But I do have boundaries, wherein I don’t date more than one woman at a time… I mean how else can you possbly get to know someone if you are trying to keep 3 or 4 people straight. How embarassing would it be to talk to a date about their latest rock-climbing adventure, if they look at you and say “I’m a cross country skier, moron!!” But, I am aware of my self enough to know when, FOR ME, there just is no connection. And I would hope a woman would know what she wants (and feels) as well.
Mike – can you actually teach other men out there how to act in a relationship? You know, how it is not OK for men to have other women and that a woman who knows what she wants isn’t a ‘feminist’ but just a confident person – and not a push over.
Just realised what my last post said … it should read “you need to experience the LOWS to appreciate the HIGHS”
Mike – I think the piece which I find intriguing about your last comment is that “When I feel (and want) to give the required effort (as in jumping in with both feet) then I will.”
You are stating a point in which many EUM’s cannot. They are not and may never be able to jump in with both feet but because of their immaturity, selfishness, or whatever. They just keep searching, and using and taking until that “perfect mate” arrives/or doesn’t. They are not capable of giving any relationship appropriate attn to survive, but accept no responsibility for stringing someone along and later thinking all the ones left behind were just needy, and THEY did nothing wrong.
I see where the red flag is for me now. There is nothing wrong with going out on dates, meeting people, etc. But if the guy on the first few dates starts pushing for something more than I’m ready for and I have to ask him to slow down, or back off it’s best to cut contact right then. The guy is not my type. Period.
As Mike is saying if he meets a woman who starts pushing for more right away, he’s clearly not ready for that, he will tell her, and won’t call her again. Period.
Although we women after cutting contact are the ones which may be pursued harder & harder we have to stay NC and believe that we deserve better. The guy isn’t in the pursuit of happiness, he’s in pursuit because now we’re a challenge and it’s a game.
Mike (and correct me if I’m wrong) wouldn’t stand for some woman contantly calling, emailing, etc. He would be uncomfortable with that, cut contact and remain at NC. It’s because this woman crossed his boundary, he feels this person isn’t right for him. He doesn’t give her 200 more chances to come back & prove he was wrong about her. He just ends it and moves on.
Alison,
I don’t know if it’s possible to “teach” proper relationship techniques to anyone. Many of us have differing views as to what a “proper” relationship should be. Some men/women are more rigid than others. The point is that you need to establish your own set of rules/boundaries so that you can determine if a person is right for you.
We are responsible for our own actions.. whether we choose to realize when exhibit poor behavior, is another story.
karen i like what you said about guys that aren’t up front with what they want, or are able to change their mind later..my babys dad promised me marriage and a baby in 2 years and said because of that it was ok for us to go to bed together now…well after 2 times in the sack, we made a baby. I expected him to marry me like he promised and instead i got a ultimatum of have an abortion or its over, but an abortion wasn’t an option so he left….he didn’t just lie to me or hurt me..i had 5 kids from my marriage, he had a daughter from his marriage and now we have a baby together in a sense he lied to all of us, and the fact that he just could change his mind has really got me pissed…..they say he that angers you, controls you…and boy does he…for me its working on forgiveness, not so much for me to forgive him, but for me to forgive myself for being so niave….to protect myself i won’t be intamite with anyone again before marriage, its hard its been 17 months,,ha ha but women bond through physical and emotional contact, and taking the sex out of the equastion keeps me grounded and less attached…and if a guy doesn”t want to put a ring on my finger, he doesn’t have to, but i surely won’t pretend like i’m his wife……you learn real quick what a guys after when you tell him no committment no sex! also date alot, until theres a ring on your finger (engagement) date don’t put all of your eggs in one basket, then you won’t be so emotionaly attatched….keep busy always make plans even if its a walk through the mall with friends, a movie alone, dinner at your cousins, make plans and don’t change them for a guy EVER, because he won’t change his plans for you….have a life, even silly things like these keeps you busy, and you don’t have to say who your with…just do something..also, doing something FEMINE everyday keeps you grounded, like dancing, and then a bubble bath, reading a romance novel in the bath, buying a girly outfit, and getting your hair done, or getting a pedicure or some new make up……doing these things help keep you grounded as far as men are the pursuer and we are the ones to except or decline them……if we spend time doing femine things we feel more like a lady and want to RECIEVE instead of give….and we are giving to the men and pursuiing them when we call, text, email, beg, nag, stomp are feet when we don’t get our way…in the beging these men pursue and we recieve by excepting what they offer, but because they are EUM, they switch that on us, and then it becomes us chasing them!!!!! damn those men…better to NC once its been done, and move on, now we know what to do, but the evil they’ve done to us sucks!!!! thank god for KARMA!
NML- I really appreciate your post as I have taken Katb to her first Al-Anon meeting. I really like the thought process of what you say about validation and concept- yes ladies this is manipulation, I know you dont feel it is, but I promise you it is, trying to help someone understand you is control in its most basic form.
Thankgod for Mike. Ladies its time to do some serious work on yourselves, stop obsessing about him, its time to start obsessing about yourselves, and your own emotional availability. Lets kick arse, in a ladylike way that is. NO GAMES!!! ever. A natural belief in yourself and who you are and what you want. NO BULLSHIT, thats what you want.
Sorry that was me, didnt change name from katyb’s post. Yes she is ok. Has’nt heard from ABF, thats good. I want her now reading some good books about her own emotional unavailability, because she is truley that, xxx sorry katyb but its true babe. xxx Ive shown you the way, given you some books. Its up to you now honey.
What I don’t undertand is why do you make “having a man” such a top priority? I don’t mean to upset anyone on this post with that statement, but you can just as easily do the same things you do with a man ( minus sex – which with some women, I hear it ain’t all that great anyway) that you can do on your own. I know some women that won’t see a movie by themselves because they think other people will perceive them as some sort of “loser.” I mean it never occurs to these women that the other people are there TO SEE THE MOVIE. I have female friends that will attend concerts, movies, sporting events on their own if they want to. I guess my point is to not stop living because you don’t have a man in your life. Maybe some of us are not destined to spend an entire lifetime with one man (or woman) but we are destined to spend an entire lifetime with ourselves, so why waste it?
Mike, it is because of the way women are socialized from birth. Even today, the most important thing is having a husband and family. It can be a very competitive thing for women too.
I had a 20 year marriage and it was hell.
I look at my workmates who are married and have small children and I can’t see how their lives are all that great working full time and then having to take care of small children and a home. They seem to cater to their husband’s every whim. Or the stay at home wife whose existence is to keep the house spotlessly clean. You pretty much give up your life to be a full time maid.
I think women look to a man to provide them some magical existence and the longer I live why would you expect some magical existence from people that are so closed off from their emotions as many men are?
I’m not ready to date again but I think I will just date a lot of guys and no sex until I really feel like it. I wont be having sex to get some guy to like me better or because he has fed me some stellar bs.
I can see myself having maybe 2-3 boyfriends at the same time to really meet my needs.
lol-I know, I know, Im getting it. I suppose I want the fairytale ending that Rules had. Her man coming back and making his amendment to her, and doing what NML said, validating her. But as she remeinds me, it took him 7 years!!!!!!!! LOL. Keiran, I know you will never read this but… You truly where her salvation, funny really, being the one who nearly destroyed her. She learnt so much from her relationship with you, and recognised she had serious issues of her own. I knew you then and I know you now, you are truly a different man. I suppose, I hope and I pray that ABF will do the same, but I know in my heart he just is’nt desperate enough, as rules says, addicts are so good at having options, he has plenty. You had none, and you chose not to find any others, Im truly in awe of you. How did Rules get to be so lucky?
Ladies this was not luck or a fairy tale ending. I mean it. It took the near death of two people, both in the throes of each addiction. It was murder for us both. Letting go of someone who I was truly addicted to, as well as all the substances that I had becaome addicted to through being with him and raising a child, I promise all of you, this woman was LOVING TO DEATH a man, who could not love her. This tale is one of extremes, through taking it lightley every man who had hurt her, until I met my catyalist, My one true addiction. Every man I met was a relapse I would split up get myself up and going not looking at my issues until I really chose rock bottom, a fully fledged addict of every narcotic known to man, how did I get to be with him and get him to love me? I felt sorry for him, thought I could teach him and show him the way but the reality was I used with him. Thats how low I sank. From a women studying law to a women addicted to coke, alcohol, skunk,sex and a no hope freakin loser. I allowed him to take my soul. Then ladies he kicked me to the curb. I promise you all if you do not address your issues, get some freakin backbone this could become a reality for you. It was hell and it was hell for 3 years after I’d dragged myself away from him.
Rules… in no way is this meant to funny or direspectful but you should write a book or get movie deal going on your story. You’ve obviously been to hell and back – more power to you and I truly hope that your life continues to get better with each passing day.
Mike,
You sound like you’re clear about what you want (or don’t want) and communicate it in relationships, which definitely makes you non-EUM in my book. But the EUMs you talk about are ones who don’t want to be in a committed relationship but string women who do along with deliberately deceptive behaviour. They’re actually not so hard to deal with (once you realize what’s happening and if you have some self-esteem) because it’s easier to see they’re a waste of time, or downright nasty. What about emotionally distant (in my experience 40+) guys who would really like to be in a stable relationship but just can’t cut it, are deeply unhappy about it but don’t seem to be able to do anything about it? Would be interesting to know your thoughts.
Peacefrog
I would have to say that if they are what you just described, then leave them alone… very alone. They don’t know what the heck they want, so why drag yourself down with them? I would say something like “I hope you figure out what you want from life, but I have my own to live and need to get on living it.”
I’m sure you’ve invested quite enough of your heart and time into this person, and probably have not received much in return. That is not a relationship. You can’t be a crutch to someone – especially someone who doesn’t appear to WANT to change – at least that’s what I’m gathering from your comment.
Mike
You’re right, and that’s what I think by now. I’d just be interesting to know if a guy like yourself, who sounds clued-up, has any insight into that kind of behaviour. It’s pretty alien from a female point of view.
My guess would be that he might be going thru a “mid-life’ crisis.. he looks around and thinks his life is boring. Nothing to do with you of course. Maybe he’s feeling that he should be more successful at this stage of his life or whatever. Unfortunately, he’s decided to shut down rather than make any changes. And he’s taking his “poor me” attitude out on you…. which sucks!!
A major such crisis, definitely, but previous relationship mess is more of the problem (his career’s a success). And I know it’s nothing to do with me – in fact he reckoned that if he could sort himself out he might well be happy with me. What’s difficult to understand is what comes across as a mix of emotional brokenness and complete rationality. Most women I know who can’t cope with a relationship either communicate the fact or else act like a complete headcase, not both. So like I said, I wondered what men who aren’t in such a crisis think or understand about men who are…
Just wondering about one thing… What if you know he is/was an EUM… you KNOW you got out because no matter if you stood on your head he would not be emotionally available to you.. What if he DID end up meeting someone after you and then started to do all of the things that YOU asked him to do? And you know by mutual friends that this next girl is now benefitting from all that you begged him to do… HOW do you get over that??? It’s driving me MAD!!!!! Natalie.. Can you help with this? What they hay? I know.. it’s lack of self worth… and wanting to validate my unworthiness that is keeping me in this cycle.. but What the hay? WHY is he giving this girl Everything that he couldn’t give me????? He’s already ready to propose after 8 months of dating her? And we were together over 2 years and I got nothing…??? That’s the hardest part of all this.. HELP!!!!!!!!!!
keri, sometimes it’s just because you two were not a true match and it hurts like hell when you were the one who didn’t want it to end. I know how that feels, been through it. You also need to realize that you want a man that is crazy about you and he obviously wasn’t …but I’m sure the one who will be is out there, and you just have to be know your worth and appreciate yourself. HUGS
Mike, I know that you can never teach a man about the values of a relationship (can’t teach an old dog new tricks) but like Peacefrog said, you sound very clear on what you want and don’t want. So it becomes frustrating that other men cannot seem to grasp this simple concept. Admittedly there are women like this so I am not putting all the blame on men … but with the men who are ACs maybe YOU could teach them values haha.
Also I agree with Tina. Most women are programmed from an early age to believe in the so-called ‘fairy tale’ ending. I personally blame Disney – the typical damsel in distress waiting for her Prince to come and save her, when really Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, The Little Mermaid, and all the other protagonists, should have put it into fifth gear and bloody well fought for themselves! Even at school the ‘loner’ kid was bullied because they were ‘Billy-No-Mates’.
I did used to think that I was ‘incomplete’ without a guy because when I was younger I never had a BF and all my friends did, and I wondered if there was anything ‘wrong’ with me but I grew up and stopped believing in the fairy tales and realized there is absolutely nothing wrong with me. I just wanted to be in relationship for all the wrong reasons – because I thought I HAD to be one half of a whole.
So I think it would be important to teach children that it is sometimes ok to be alone and that it can be a relaxing and enjoyable experience, so that when they grow up they won’t find it so daunting. It was only last month that I went to the cinema for the first time ever and it was actually really fun – not having another person whispering to you in your ear and no-one to share the popcorn with ïŠ Even going for walks along the beach and just sitting infront of the sea reading a book or listening to music alone can be the most relaxing thing in the world. So relaxing that validation from any man, or anyone is no longer required.
Keri – I highly suggest you read NML’s blog called ‘He’s with someone else – Why her and not me?’ Pay close attention to when she says:
“This is why I keep telling women to stop trying to raise men from the ground up and change them because the overwhelming likelihood is that it’s the NEXT woman that profits from your rennovation whilst you sit there in negative equity!”
Again a perfect blog and example of how EUMs ONLY THINK ABOUT THEMSELVES. Keep smiling Keri and trust in this site to help you find your strong self again x
Keri, here is the link if you want to have a gander, which I highly think you should
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/hes-with-someone-else-why-her-and-not-me/
What a great site! I have just spent the whole evening explaining to this guy, how much I had done for him and how the world revolves around him. In a nutshell, I was moving on from our friendship/relationship.
It’s just so painful when you have invested so much time into someone , and they are just not that into you.
Do I need some personal time reflection ? Just slightly tired of meeting the wrong type of men :(.
“They’re disconnected from themselves and don’t really do introspection so you’re expecting quite a lot of them. You want him to see something that he just doesn’t see.”
I like this statement NML. Looking for validation or for him to recognize he is an idiot, quite frankly, makes me an idiot. And I’ve had enough of beating myself up and feeling bad about it all, time to move on, next step. It doesn’t matter what the hell he thinks. It’s time I internalize and believe it, everyday I do more and more.
I’m 25 days NC, after he dumped me by text, no warning, after we had gotten to a stage of us talking every day instead of any texting (his idea oddly), after 3rd yo-yo go-around in the relationship. When the next better woman came along, texting became convenient again for the kiss-off. Bitter pill to swallow is that I responded with I love yous and be happy, but never contact me again (was still in shock, not angry yet), but this was the last yo-yo for me.
I blocked his number next day after breakup. Honestly, knowing I’ll never have to worry when next text or contact will come is such a relief. Being SERIOUS about no contact has allowed me to see what a self-absorbed gross person he is, and what a waste of time.
This article is a great reminder – if I am thinking about this loser at this point, I need to concentrate on me and my life. It’s not fun to be alone and work on your issues, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the previous alternative.
Loving Annie, great post earlier on – I look forward to being where you are.
Caroline –
Some personal time reflection sounds like a great idea, especially at a time like this. I’m not be one to give advice given I’m fairly new to the idea of recognizing and opting out of EUM relationships, but it feels important for me to realize “meeting the wrong type of men” begins with changing myself. Time alone is crucial for that to happen.
When we have strong sense of self, good self-esteem and good boundaries, we don’t attract the wrong types. At least that’s what I am learning and hope to see one day it is true. It’s a struggle sometimes, but I do believe it’s true. Hugs and good wishes.
Most of the women on this site, when they talk about the EUM’s they were involved with say they’ve been together for quite awhile. A year, two years, many lots longer then that. So you may have a good guy for a year or year and a half and then they suddenly change. Maybe you had a committment from them, or talked about marriage or moving in together. My point is the reason so many of us get hooked is the change in their behavior can be so sudden that it catches us off guard. One minute you’re in a relationship with someone you love, who says they love you, who acts like they love you and then they turn around and completely change. That’s what happened to me.
I was in a committed relationship, we spent lots of time together, we made plans for our future. Then it all changed, just like that. So if you’ve never dated or been involved with an EUM before you are just speechless. Yes, there were red flags that I missed but nobody is perfect. I didn’t start feeling and acting upset until he started changing.
That’s the problem with dealing with men like this. I’m not naive by any means but I was truly shocked by his behavior. I started to wonder if he one of the pods in the Body Snatchers, you know, you put the pod under the bed and when they wake up they’re someone else…lol. I kept thinking, who is this person?
It’s not as simple as women acting like doormats and obssessing for no reason. I think many of us are just blindsided and don’t know how to handle it.
The hit to my ego still stings but I no longer want him. He’s called me many times since the break up. I have talked to him a few times and at first when you’ve done NC for months it’s almost like a drug when you make contact again. But after you realize that this person has no intention of changing, that there is no point in keeping up contact, you lose interest.. I mean what the heck are you going to talk about? How he cheated and lied? How disconnected he is? How much more of my precious time am I going to waste on somone that clearly had no problem being an assclown?
In the end you have to move on and let it go but it’s taken me five months to be able to say that and mean it.
Keri, a toad is still a toad and just because he “appears” to be loving and giving to someone else, doesn’t mean he really is. Sure he may marry her but he is still the same AC and she’ll see his true colours and divorce him.
As for teaching values, most of that comes from our parents. What I see are parents who coddle and cater to their sons and no wonder they grow up with a sense of entitlement.
They’ve never had to do a single thing for anyone else so why should they start?
Their mums are the household servant.
If that is how you were raised, then why wouldn’t boys grow up to think that is what women do.
I tried to raise my son differently. He knows how to do chores, does his own cooking and laundry. As a teen he babysat for extra money so he is good with kids and knows how to take care of someone else. He has had a dog that he is responsible for. He turned out to be a fine young man who actually cares about others.
No offense taken Mike. My story is nothing compared to some of the women and men Ive met. It truly is frightening what can happen if you let it. I def dont want my story published or written about because it is not unique and Im nothing special at all. I just want to point out what can happen if things get out of hand. I dont blame my ex, I blame myself. He got it, thankgod he saved his life. Im thankful for that. But it was’nt and should’nt have been my mission to save him. I should have been saving myself.
I like your post myalmostlover because I sometimes still feel that i want him to make contact or say im sorry or acknowledge my pain as if talking about it (yet again) is going to make any difference. And you are right it is precious time wasted on someone who lied and cheated and said that he loved me but yet his actions and behavior said something different. Reading this last post from NML has helped me to realize that I need to learn how to validate myself. It is a big challenge for me because I have never come across someone who lacked so much empathy, compassion, introspection — i can go on and on…….and it has blindsided me and hit me hard not to be able to get this man to understand how much he has hurt me. Slowly I am starting to realize that he can never really grasp this because he just is not capable of it and that at some point I really have to let go of the idea that he one day can or will. Little by little I am shifting from NEEDINg or WANTING him to validate me to ACCEPTING that he can’t or that I dont need it to come from him! And acceptance doesn’t involve something having been wrong or right or that you are ok with what happened………it just means ACCEPTING that their is nothing you can do about it or to change another person— the focus has to be on how can I change myself so that I dont attract these types of men or put myself in this situation again. Trying …every day trying…
“They look at themselves in the mirror and think ‘I’m a great catch, I just haven’t found the right woman yet and she’s just crazy and needy.’ Do you really think that people who think like this are going to think ‘Ah..she just wants me to understand…’? No, they just think you’re even crazier and needier, and that they are justified in their behaviour.” I just wanted to say that this is so well put and it speaks for itself how those men think and function. The sadest thing is that I realised that the more time you spend with them the more you are going to regret because those people bacically have twisted and dark characters. They simply cannot make anyone happy! Sounds creepy but it is the truth.
Here’s a good one. I was contacted yesterday by a former boyfriend. Over the years now and then he would contact me. Sometimes we would meet and catch up on where our lives were, etc. I thought it always strange that he would start the contact by saying he “missed me”. Never really thought much of it though, nothing which would raise a “flag”. Until now….
He sends me an email with the usual “I miss you” remark and then goes on and on about himself. He just ended his 3rd marriage with a woman he met on an airplane for a business trip. (Classic AC or what?)
My old self would have responded to him but the new me said “whoa, hold on here. This guy is the classic AC and I’m not buying any of his lies or making time for him, or giving an ego stroke.” I deleted the email never responded and had to laugh about what a fool he is making of himself. So you see, many of these AC never learn. They never get it – they just need the ego stroke.
Thank goodness for NML and all of you. I’m more aware now and to some degree conscious of what’s happening and will hopefully read the signs earlier from here on out.
Not sure if this will help anyone, but here goes … I’m on day 22 of NC (yes I am counting!) and with each day I feel better. But this time more than the many other times, because I’ve made the commitment to myself that this is OVER.
Call it my “Gift of Life”. You can do this too. Think about the time, the effort, the love, the years that you have basically wasted on someone elses wishes. You werent playing by your rules, you were playing by his rules. If you broke his rules, he was gone, if only for a little while. Then here he comes … still with his rules … and we shrug off ours and continue with him.
It is a vicious cycle and it takes super strength to stop it. He doesnt have the strength … You do! We have to dig down deep inside ourselves. We have to want to be Happy! Were you happy with him? My guess the answer is a resounding NO! or Not really, or Occasionally. Well, they would be my answers anyway. 😛
So let’s all give ourselves our lives back! Our own lives! Our rules. Doesnt that sound great!?!?
annied, Yeah, you got it!! 🙂 You sound great!
betterwithouthim, I had that happen to me too, here is the funny thing,
he will e-mail again even if you don’t respond. Makes me wonder does he care if he gets an response, just wanted to offload his blah blah on to somebody or will he forget he wrote to you? What do you think?
In the past I would have done the same thing and responded before I found this great website.
Astelle- I think he will have forgotten he wrote to me in the first place. Which makes the whole situation even funnier, for me anyways! 5 months of NC and I’m finally getting it. Amen!
Annied- Way to go GF!!!
Better, good for you, I am so glad that you got it. 🙂 Took me a long time to get it, but I can laugh now at things that happened. 🙂
Hi Everyone. Due to a technical fault with the previous service which notifies you by email when I publish a new post, I have had to move to a new provider. The error means you will now need to sign up to the Feedblitz service if you want to start receiving emails again. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Thanks Natalie/NML
I too still want my EU ex to realize what an amazing woman he lost. I hope I run into him one day and hope he will then start charming his way back in. Only for me to be able to tell him face to face to take a hike. Maybe because we ended it via email and I never saw him again. It just doesn´t feel like closure when you happily kis eachother goodbye one day as if nothing is the matter and the only and last contact after that is a lame email.
I am over him, wouldn´t want him back if you paid me, but I am not over the bruise in my ego.
I am over my ex-eum too, I cut of the contact for good reasons I told him to his face that I was cutting contact, felt great really great to have done so, a couple of bad days and some indecsion as to whether I should call after hearing his friend was in a coma which I didn’t do.. so it is six weeks now .. I feel proud to have made it .. but why do I get these silly urges to contact him.. I hate them and having to fight them .. I know I made the right decision.. (just venting) I will carry on with no contact ..
Anne,
If you want to get back at him, you are a long way from being over him. This is how I felt in the early days of breaking it off with the AC. When you are indifferent to this man you will know you are over him.
I agree with Gaynor, you are not over him and why are you looking for closure from him? You know you will never get it, make your own closure and don’t ever contact him again, your ego will get over it with time.
Tulipa, it just has been 6 weeks for you now? What happened? it should be much longer if I remember correctly. I am sorry that his friend is in a coma, but that doesn’t change the fact what he is.
Keep on venting but stick with NO Contact.
Hmm.. maybe you all are right. I don´t have an urge to confront other exes, I couldn´t care less about them. So yeah, maybe I am not over him. I will search for a way to get some closure by myself. Or maybe the anger will just go away with time.
Thanks for the feedback!
Ok, so I know this is going to sound so wrong, but I’ve been in a couple of relationships with AC’s and since then have been pretty happy either being single or single/mingling with people of the opposite sex. Men know that they say things that flatter women and I think NOT to be flattered (giving the fact that a compliment is meant to make you feel good) goes against my nature. However, what I’ve done to keep myself at arms length or “at bay” of sorts is to have a string of bs lines to give back to the men. Usually that does it and they understand that if they play with fire, they will get burnt. If you are cavalier about a believeable compliment, he will blush and start to think about you in way that makes him smile when he’s fixing breakfast in the AM or tying his shoes or getting his coffee, etc. I’ve had fun doing this for years and in the midst of it, I have some pretty doggone good male friends (who I do NOT have sex with) and not to mention female friends too! Marriage is not the brass ring and I believe someone on here said that you can actual enjoy living life with youself. I put it that way, because it sounds kinda creepy to me to think of doing things by myself. In the sense it’s the same thing with myself/besides myself. Semantics….anywho! I hope you ladies and gentlemen enjoy life to the fullest. It’s too daggone short. God Bless. PS (I actually came here to see different people’s views on self validation vs validation by others and stumbled upon this EXTREMELY interesting message board. LOL) You guys are great and I do mean that. I’m not being sarcastic.
I am a senior citizen and I have managed to have met a narcissist at this late date! Out of the blue he stopped calling and has changed his routine to avoid me…….(1mo.) I am seeing a psychologist,reading all I can on narcissism,and most of all,praying to forgive him so I may be free.Broken hearts don’t have an age.
Hi all, I have just found this site and everything you all say resonates with me so much. I was dumped by my EUM just over a month ago. We were together for 15 years, have three children and I got told in a phone call whilst I was at work. I was absolutely devestated. About a week or so after he left, the kids had their first contact with him (yes, he didn’t even bother to sit down with them, that was left up to me to explain to them). They came home and in true children style told me about their dad’s girlfriend. I felt like I had been punched in the stomach!
I confronted him about this and got a load of bs. I am still coming to terms with this but have a list of all of his AC qualities, and am really wanting NC but have to do the property settlement, kids contact etc, etc.
I’m so glad I stumbled on this site as when I am feeling at my lowest (which happens about twice a day), I log on and the posts here raise my spirits and remind me to focus on me.
It is going to take me quite a while to be at peace and move on, but I am heading in the right direction, whilst he has definitely traded down, to a doormat who hopefully will see him for the AC he really is and do herself a favour.
Thanks guys, I don’t think I would be doing this well without all the great advice and posts here.
amen, you are completely validating my inner thoughts and feelings. i don’t trust myself lately, but this is something i feel is true because i can sense it in me. regardless of my desires the truth stares you in the face and then its hard to deny it. your article sounds too familiar and the results have been relentlessly disappointing because i act on an impulse to be consumed by another’s opinion and it always ends badly to depend on another to make your feel happy.