Many a reader has been left perplexed and even feeling rejected because they’re not treated ‘as good’ as a partner’s ex or their various hangers-on’s that stroke their ego. In turn, they end up devoting their energy to seeking a rather unusual validation that actually contradicts their other ‘challenge’ of having a committed relationship.
A ‘narcissistic harem’ is typically a number of people clucking around someone giving them an ego stroke.
Sometimes, in this day and age of distant and very lazy communication, you can be a harem member without even realising it just by being willing to play text ping pong with someone ambiguous or having brief interactions with people who you meet online. These are basically attention collectors. You’ll know them well if you’ve ever come across someone who practically lives on dating sites, or is constantly on Facebook being told how great they are by their ‘groupies’.
You’ll be familiar with your atypical harem chairperson, if you’ve ever been with an unavailable, commitment dodging person, who either collects friendships with their exes like medals, has a meddling friend or few, controlling family members, or when you start going out with them, every Tom, Dick, Jessica, and Harry seems to be breaking their neck to tell you how great they are or remind you not to hurt them, or is even reassuring you how they used to be a playa but they’re going to be different now. Some Cheaters even have harems that will reassure you that they’re definitely leaving their spouse or partner, giving them and you a false sense of confidence about the relationship.
It’s important to remember that someone who 1) is unavailable, 2) is trying to avoid being absolute in promising themselves to someone and acting like it, and 3) needs regular small, medium, and large sized bowls of ego stroking porridge to allow them to distance themselves from their feelings and actions, isn’t going to let it all rest on one person – that’s called commitment. For some, the more people they can collect attention from, the better.
Observing more than a few harems in my time has made me see that there are two types:
Saboteurs – These harem members often have designs on the chairperson and are also unavailable, possibly keeping your so-called partner as a backup plan for themselves or making themselves available for fallback duty. You are basically a pain in the bum. They put this person on a pedestal which actually only helps to foster a distorted view of reality. Family members won’t be helping if they carry on like no one or only an is good enough.
Saboteurs are like a fortress of an unavailable person’s own making and they are the perfect foil. When they think about why they haven’t managed to hold down a relationship, they’ll claim they haven’t met the ‘right’ person and feel they can legitimise that view with the validation of their expert team of cluckers.
Champions – Ever been out with someone who seems like The Most Popular Person Ever or is “really respected” and “nobody has a bad word to say about them”? This will hook you if you need social proof. Champions are often friends and colleagues who are well meaning, but don’t know someone in relationship terms or only know what’s been presented. There’s also a definite element with Champions of often buying into One Time At Bandcamp tales of woe which they repeat to you without really knowing what the frick they’re talking about or just believe without question.
I know of someone who is having an affair. Honestly, you’d think the man was God the way people go around talking about him. I really don’t believe that the majority of harem members are interested in him, but they have him on a pedestal and they are constantly reminding the Other Woman of how amazing he is, that he’s definitely going to leave, and how ‘lucky’ she is. Any objections she raises to him, he even picks up the phone and calls a harem member to reassure her. These people are well meaning, but like all ‘Champions’, they doth protest too much and are actually helping him to overestimate his capacity to follow through.
People who have their own harem tend to bounce back very quickly from relationship issues that they have, because they never really have to face their feelings or experiences. Instead, whenever they experience problems, they send a text, pick up the phone, or go and have a whine and their members tell them what they want to hear. One day they might realise that they believed the hype too much and panic ‘commit’ to the next person or a harem member…let’s hope it’s not you.
Here’s what you should know: You don’t want to be a member of the harem. You don’t.
It might feel like they have it so much better than you or that if they weren’t around that things would be oh so much better, but to focus on the members is to miss the point – the harem chairperson is unavailable and isn’t satisfied by any one of you alone. That’s not because there’s something wrong with you or them (aside from the fact that you don’t seem to have better things to do with your time than be the smoke machine in someone’s life pumping into their bum); it’s because they’re unavailable.
The presence of a harem will gradually take its toll on a relationship as it will either feel like there’s so many of you in the relationship or it’ll just straight up eff with your head.
Don’t get it twisted and think that the problem is the harem; the problem is that they have a harem in the first place and how they handle it with you.
Harem members are on crumb rations, just like how even if you have the title, you’re on crumb rations too. As I explained to a reader, vying to be treated as “well” as them, is like getting one batch of crumbs and then complaining that you don’t get their half batch, instead of recognising that even if you have 1.5 batches of crumbs, it’s still crumbs.
If they appear to treat harem members better, it’s because they are harem members. You as the person who is in a relationship with them, need more by definition. It feels safer to give and showboat with someone who would actually be hanging around on the fringes and feeding them with attention.
If they’re an ex, they’re an ex for a reason and if they were that special, they’d be back together…and then they’d be getting your treatment and you’d be getting theirs.
The ex is a fallback. It’s important to remember that they become attractive again when they don’t appear to have as much wants, needs, and expectations. They’ll also be glitter in their smoke, because in being a fallback, they’ll be putting in extra effort. It’s also safe to say that your partner may actually be their ex’s fallback option also.
If you’ve tried to make someone change and prioritise you over their harem or make you ‘equal’ and the relationship has ended, it’s time to realise that this isn’t because you’re not good enough, but because you’ve just fannied away your time trying to change them, and they’ve spent the same period of time trying to show you that they won’t.
Give it enough time and if you don’t get your self-esteem and boundaries in order, it will only be a matter of time until you’re a harem member.
Emotionally mature and rounded people don’t need to seek continuous ego strokes and would not put you in the mind effery territory of having to put up with it in the first place. Don’t compete; move on. Hanging out in a crowd in a relationship is not where you’re meant to be.
Your thoughts?
Check out my book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl in my bookshop.
Are you ready to stop silencing and hiding yourself in an attempt to ‘please’ or protect yourself from others? My book, The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want (Harper Horizon), is out now.
Image credit Roijaune at SXC
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Aaargh! FLUSH!
Terrible – orbited by their exes, ex-dates, friends-cum-dates secretly in waiting, booty call(s) hanging around on the edges. Ugh.
Yes, Tired, the very thought makes me shudder now! Bleeaaarghh! FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH!!
Tired, that just made me bust out laughing! I was trying to think of a way to summarize my last AC’s ever-present harem for educational purposes and…you just did it one sentence. “Ugh.” indeed!
I realized in my many reflective thought sessions (haha) that the guy I was involved with for a short stint of time definitely has a harem in his friends, especially one of his best friends who I know quite well. Needless to say, I’d observed him around his friends prior to being with him and then again when we were “hanging out” and although I only realized it after everything was said and done, I observed that his friends place him on a pedestal.
I remember one moment in particular when he mentioned how if he wasn’t going to show up for specific plans or an event that a lot of his friends would back out too. When he said this though, he looked and sounded amused. I mean they would even ask him what he was WEARING before going anywhere that required dressing up or out of the casual norm… Also, whenever he said something it usually stuck and hardly anyone even countered or raised their own opinion or argument. If they did however, backing down usually came rather quickly. I just find people interesting to say the least and I realize now that many of the people he surrounds himself with (either of the female variety or his male friends), are in a sense doormats. The best friend of his that I know quite well has placed him on a pedestal so high it’s mindboggling. He will always take his side, regardless. It’s like around him he has no mind of his own. I have best friends and it’s nothing like this. We don’t pick fights with one another for kicks but we always voice our own opinions and take a stance if we disagree. I think that’s the healthy thing to do anyways.
Regardless, I find it interesting. It’s like a constant gathering of groupies and I have NO idea why. I also find it fascinating that so many of the people he surrounds himself are exactly the same in many ways. I wonder if it’s all just coincidence or not. Like I said, interesting.
I think it is quite easy really.
They’re all fallbacks/casual break ups. They get enough crumbs to hang on, and they boost their own status as well. It’s like putting a ticket into the draw for lotto I guess. While you still have a foot in, you have *some* chance of getting a piece.
Last year when the AC/EUM emailed to tell me that he started seeing someone new…just a few days after sleeping with me and letting me believe we had worked out some key issues and were a couple again. It didn’t take long for me to figure out that what really happen was that I was just used as an ego stroke and gave him all the validation he needed that he still “had it” before he moved on to someone else. I also knew that since he never really got rid of his ex-wife while we were together that he would likely be lining me up to be the new ex-hangers on. I made sure he knew how much I was interested in that new title by going NC. Now if I could only forgive myself for being foolish enough to let him sleep with me “one last time” before he moved on…ugh!
Forgive yourself. Consider it his parting gift because he’s clearly too self-absorbed and shallow to appreciate it =). He may not realize it yet but it should be his last go around with you (your gift to yourself). {{{HUGS}}}
Thanks metsgirl!! Sometimes when I think about the fact that he get to go on living his happy life while I’m still left with the baggage I stop to tell myself that 1) no matter how great he thinks she is, she’s still not me, 2) his punishment for being dishonorable is that I’m no longer in his life.
OMG! You are SO in my head right now. This same this happened to me just over the weekend. My ass-weasel led me by the nosehairs for 6 years believing that I was the one and would definitely be his wife…well if didn’t already have one of course. Well wifey finally got sick of his crappola and left him. And what did he do? Tell me he needed some space (which I gave him), time (which I gave him) and a shoulder to lean on (which I gave him). In the meantime, while leaning on MY shoulder he was laying on another womans breasts. Dropped me like a flaming turd. Flaunted the girl in my face and everything. A year later he comes back and tells me that he should have stayed with me. But I know the trick this time – the girl is living in his house and it isn’t as exciting anymore. Enter: The Fallback Girl. Went to dinner with him and boom – back in the saddle. Until he stood me up – no call/no show, called me the next day to laugh about it and then told me that chose her over me because she caters to him. Whuuuuuuut??? Nuff said. NC in full effect.
I stumbled across this webpage purely by accident last night and I must say that this is the MOST enlightening, eye opening information I have seen yet. Better than any self-help books I’ve read! Kudos Nat!!
I believe my ex harem was a contributing factor in our demise. He actually told me about some of the key players in the beginging of our relationship. A couple of girls that he dated and/or slept with that still lurked on his facebook….the occasional Miss you 😉 (the winky face just kills me). The ex before me (that I’m still not convince he wasnt really over) who he still spoke to until I asked him to stop. Oh yeah and he felt the need to tell me that she had told him she wasnt able to move forward with her current relationship because she was still in love with him. Conviently everyone he told me about was in some way still “stuck” on him.
All these stories always made me feel insecure in our relationship; like he would just leave for one of these fallback girls because nothing was really over from his past. This led to some problems, among over things.
I felt bad for these girls and I also vowed then that I would not be one of them hanging on for scraps. I have fallen a couple times since the break up and I remind myself how I want to be stonger than that. I won’t give him the satisfaction of turning around and telling stories about me to whoever the new girl might be!
I swear – I have been on this site for over 2 years – and I swear we have all dated the same guy – LOL, but also makes me so mad that there are so many of these guys/gals out there – ughhhh!
Lostagain
The guy I dated always spoke about his ex girlfriends and girls he dated and it made me feel uneasy, apparently they were either psycho or untrustworthy. He also said all his sisters friends fancied him and that they were all stunning but he wasn’t interested in any them. Whatever! I cant believe I allowed this to make me feel insecure. His fb is full of women commenting on how handsome he is and how “amazing” he looks in his photos. He even told me this. But, yet he is still searching for someone “special” on dating sites. I too feel bad for the previous women he has been involved with, he is one of the many masters of future faking and fast forwarding.
Aimee, don’t be surprised that some of us may have dated the same man. 🙂
Ugh is right! I think I became a harem member without even knowing what was happening… Went from being the LTR gf to OW to booty call and #1 ex/harem member in the course of a year. I commented on another post about his new (now ex gf) checking me out an event and reporting back to him that she didn’t know what he saw in me since she was so much prettier. Then he told me she was calling and popped up at one of his events inappropriately after she ended it expecting him to chase her and he had lost interest and didn’t. (In spite of her catty remark, I was thinking she really needs to know about BR as he relayed her behavior!) BTW, I should mention I brought her up in conversation so he wasn’t arbitrarily throwing this in my face but one of the many things that is helping me stay NC was his increasing cockiness, including his comment that “women are never really done with me, they always come back” or something to that effect. I know there are other women in the picture/hanging around but not me! Never again. Ick, just ick! All of the insightful and brilliant posts and compassionate comments on BR and Natalie’s books finally hit home recently. I am NC for good and re-reading everything on the site again with new eyes and resolve. Thank you!
The edit button disappeared! I just wanted to clarify that I started as the OW to him being a MM who’s wife left him within months of when we met and she found him out. I actually didn’t want anything more than a fun casual relationship with him! But, after his divorce, I got sucked in and we were together 5 years before we broke up and I allowed my demotion from LTR to OW again (to the new gf), etc. So over 6 years of my life altogether… I was definitely EU when we met but he is definitely still an EU/AC with an immature need for multiple women’s attention. I don’t see him changing but I am!
Natalie, this post is all too horribly familiar to me! Not only did I discover that my last partner had a whole retinue of ex-gf’s and other assorted Harem Members floating around in the background – I also realised that my long-standing Best Male Friend had an even bigger cloud of ex-gf’s, ex-fiancees and other assorted ladies floating around him – including me!!! I fairly quickly rejected my ex’s offer of being “friends” after he rather clumsily and hurtfully ended our relationship – thus avoiding becoming yet another of his FBG’s/Harem Members. You are so very accurate, Natalie, with your observation that “the ex is a fallback. It’s important to remember that they become attractive again when they don’t appear to have as much wants, needs, and expectations”. That is *exactly* what happened with my ex and his previous ex-gf, who he had really bitched about when we were first together (red flag!), but when he was going cold on me she magically appeared to become the best thing since sliced bread. At the time I kept thinking that if only she and the other women he was getting in touch with would bugger off then things between us would be okay again, but with time and distance I can see now that he is simply emotionally unable to sustain a committed relationship with anyone.
It is a measure of my growing self-esteem and boundaries that a few months after I started No Contact with the ex last year, I also cut off my Best Male Friend for good. I was becoming increasingly creeped out by the scarcity of his male friends and the sheer numbers of his female friends. It just didn’t seem normal to me any more, and I didn’t want to continue being involved in it. And it creeped me out even further that I seemed to be one of the Chief Handmaidens in his Harem. Eeeuuwww, I feel quite sick just remembering it all! As I have cleared these shady types out of my life, so I have noticed more healthy and balanced people coming into it, and those that were already in my life becoming much more comfortable in my company, and I in theirs. It feels like a truly transitional phase for me, a real C-change.
So please take heart everyone, especially if you’re still very raw and messed up from a painful break with someone Unavailable and are perhaps realising that you may have been Unavailable yourself (being part of someone else’s Harem is an indicator of your own Unavailability). It might feel like a hard slog, but if you commit to taking good care of yourself and really live by Natalie’s sound advice on building good self-esteem, values and boundaries, you will eventually turn the corner.
Oh my Gosh! I burst out laughing when I read this post! In my head over the past while it slowly dawned on me that this fellow I was “seeing” (hahaha…pretty one sided….me and his ego!) was slowly but surely collecting a harem on his Facebook page. I used that word harem in my mind. Out of his 91 friends, 64 are single women!!! Yes, 64. Now that is one messed up guy. Still laughing!
Now before anyone tells me to not check out his FB page :0….I am finding this a hoot! I truly am.
Back then I just didn’t get it, then a friend sat me down and said to me….”he is using you…..why would you let him do that?” The penny dropped. After I stopped feeling ashamed and embarrassed I just got it. Self esteem back….told him to F Off and I am Oh So Thankful to be free of that crazy…never felt happier or better in my life! But this post sure hit home and I know I am all better now, I burst out laughing when I read it 🙂
Wow this post is so right on time! I was just thinking about who would qualify as members of my ex’s harem his former collegues (he is retired) yes assclown over 55 alert! He has been gone from the job over a year ago and I still have to hear about him! UGH! One person is a supervisor who is still in contact with him. She did not know about us do you know so and so? In my mind well yes! One time I was horrified to hear that he was going to come see her on the job during a time I would be there! The other collegue is a close friend of his who claims is like an older brother to her. I think she has designs on him to be more and she did know about us. He even said I could have had that a long time ago. The comment just shows how much of an ego this man has. He still calls the job and I avoid answering the phone. I believe she was the one who told him where I was working during a time of no contact he called a location where I was working alone and had to answer the phone. This caught me off guard and set me back after almost 4 months of no contact! He had called me before that about three weeks prior and I ignored his voice mail. So assclown calls me again anyway at work! A boundary busting selfish a hole. I regret taking that call to this day I was just so stunned. How dare you try to move on from me the badpenny who has nothing to offer. These harems are enablers in so many ways. I wish I could leave my job because of his harem. I try to avoid them like the plague!
You amaze me with these post, it’s like you are in my head or living in my house. Thank you I need every one of them.
You know what’s really funny? In all my ego-stroking (which I still do!), I am feeling like the *best* ego-stroker of *them all*. Like, I am the most popular gal of a club I really don’t want to be in! Madness.
Self worth, self love, self esteem. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
I have been asked out a lot for the last year on and off by my ex, who is still with his partner! He has been with so many people behind her back it is obvious he wont change. Everyone seems to fall for his charm and good looks despite his track record, he clicks his fingers and they come running. Strangely enough I saw him at lunch getting into some females car, he was sneaking around and casually slid into her passenger seat. The scarey thing is he seriously thinks nobody notices what they are up to! His partner will never suspect if he sleeps around in his lunch hour or even works time. Yuk!!! She is one of many in his harem.
I had never heard a term put on this phenomenon but when I first found BR and read of the “narcissistic harem”, I had a name for what I had dealt with. My ex had a few women friends whom he made sure to let me know were within his circle of “private philanthropy” – meaning they got money from him. I remember him telling me about the main woman (she was an ex) having a history of sexual abuse and failed relationships, far too early into our relationship, and when I said, “I doubt she’d want you telling me that,” he told me I was in his confidence as if I were his partner and that meant not hiding things from me. It was clear from this woman’s body language that she was letting him know she would sleep with him whenever; he gave her $17K quite “in front” of me – I think to see how I’d take it and show me who was boss; later she called him up and said she was suicidal and he somehow was the one who ‘needed’ to be there for her and go for walks with her and pay for private care; he also cultivated a couple of other ‘friendships’ with women who he’d take for very expensive dinners … in the course of our relationship two of these women left their boyfriends … he “forgot” to tell me about that …
Anyway, I remember thinking, more than once, when he would call up these women for “advice” on where to stay, where to eat, etc when he and I were going away for a weekend, that he was really rubbing their nose in it, that he was dangling something in front of them. I thought that no matter what the occasional fancy dinner or potential bailout of thousands of dollars, I wouldn’t want to have to be someone’s ego bitch for it, the way these women were. So when he tried to convert me into one of these ‘friends’, right after our break up, I had none of it.
I could use a bailout of a few grand right now!! And I bet if I called him, and played the ego stroker, he’d probably give it to me. But then I’d be in his debt, right where he wanted me and everyone else. It’s funny – I don’t know where I got this moral fibre: I am seriously struggling right now, but I know at least that I respect myself enough not to be some privileged guy’s ego whore.
“ego whore”
LOVE IT!!
Those guys only “give” when they expect more in return. And they usually get what they want – even if it only means they succeed in making us feel bad.
It’s a bit like a father who abuses his little daughter and “bribes” her with sweets. Is sweets really what she needs? Nope. She needs (true) love, respect, care and protection. I think the only “purpose” of the sweets is that they make her feel “responsible” for the abuse, which she is NOT!
If we take money from an AC as adults, it’s pretty much the same in my book. We tell ourselves we “need” the money, but what we really want is an excuse for staying in touch with him (and feeling guilty because of it!).
We should rather focus on earning the needed money ourselves. In the end, this will cost us less energy than all the suffering because of those ACs.
Magnolia, it’s dark isn’t it. I can also tell stories of women leaving boyfriends/ husbands and of one who wasted her eggs on him (she had very limited fertility, he didn’t do the decent thing and let her find someone who meant it). He’s not some big bad wolf, it’s a PARTNERSHIP however f’ed up it is. I was no better than those women. It just so happens that I didn’t have much to lose, ‘only’ that package of beliefs, values, self-esteem, truth and wellbeing. I share in your struggle but also feel privileged to be living truthfully, surely that means that life’s knocks hit a solid foundation, less room for emotional crisis, breakdown etc. in the future, which is where harem chairpersons might go if they keep running away from their behaviour (or do they always live the life of riley?).
I found it extremely helpful to supplement reading Nat’s wonderful, insightful posts with anything to do w/narcissists, narcissism and sociopaths. There is a scary, clear and undeniable link between the men [and women] who treat other people this miserably; and the disordered mind of a sociopath. They. Do. Not. Love. Not ever. At best, you’ll be frustrated &, rejected by them leaving you doubting yourself. At the worst are the ones so high on the sociopath spectrum that they will enjoy playing with you and making you their victim.
I too was offered a place in the harem after being relegated from OW and replaced with a brand new OW. He genuinely seemed shocked and confused that I didn’t accept this new position. After all it meant he could still grace me with his presence occasionally. He actually had the cheek to say – but I’m committed to a friendship with you! Urgh
I’ve been dating a guy for a month. I’m not sure if he’s emotionally unavailable and trying to make me in to a harem member, or if he’s just slow out of the gate. My gut tells me it’s the former.
Anyway, here’s what I think Natalie should write about: What are some CLEAR SIGNS that you are being made in to a harem member?
I’d like to see a top ten list, or maybe just a list in general. It’s always so hard to tell what’s up at the beginning of a relationship!
The signs are in the comments to this post.
Ah..the harem.. Everytime I read these posts it gives me strength to stay NC with every azzclown I ever dated. My therapist was so right when she told me 4 years ago to stop communicating completely with my ex’s. And I am so glad that I listened to her because I was knowingly part of one harem and unknowingly part of others. Ewww…. I’ve dated guys where all their friends think they’re great then I find out they’re a sex addict or something very damaging. I found out my ex husband, after we divorced, had been sending birthday and holiday cards to his exgirlfriend the whole time we were married. What?!
This is a good one. My ex is the KING of the harem. He’s been in and out of my life for many years now. He popped back in (after 7 years) just after I had gotten out of a very long term relationship (darn FB!) This is the first time I’ve commented ( long time reader) on a post but this one really hit home! He is a musician. Talk about groupies. EVERYONE talks about how great he is and what an awesome and loyal friend he is. Funny thing, he told me a story about a girl I had suspected he was interested in during our last go round that was “just a friend” and how she “flipped out.” Turns out, he dated her. Surprise! He also said that he had asked her to be his girlfriend one night and then blamed it on his being intoxicated. CLASSY! It seems every woman in his life “flips out.” Do we see a pattern here?
I had a “relapse” with him last week, but it’s almost as if I needed to see him “in action” again to have the reality of who he is basically hit me over the head. Blew hot at the beginning, and, guess what, cold as ice immediately after. No surprise there. He also told me stories about how he still has some of his ex’s belongings at his house, but continues to tell me awful stories of how she treated him. Funny, she texted him while we were hanging out and she was doing his taxes that weekend. Thanks, Natalie! This post was just in the nick of time!!! READY TO BE DONE!
Hi Natalie and Getting There
It all looks familiar. My ex-AC always said they were ‘just a friend’ even though they’d all had chunks of time with him that looked like a relationship. I’m sure he’ll be telling people who notice my NC that we were ‘just friends’ and I ‘flipped out’. What really gets me is that in my denial, I believed him that the women who were ‘in’ were all cool, and anyone who fell out with him must be mad, needy, cold, wanted too much.
It was my worst fear to go into the dustbin of loopy women but I can tell you now, being in that dustbin is much better than being in his harem. I see all those exes in a different light now. They’re self-respecting women, and a few of them have kids and are settled.
It really gets me that the harem means he doesn’t have to face the consequences. He can go off and escape with one of them (reset— ‘I love you’, reset— just friends) while here I am, alone and in the loopy dustbin, working on self esteem like I’m learning a new language. I’d love to round up the harem and put sanctions on his ass!
Happy Beginning, thanks for the reply. I actually sent him a message telling him how sorry I felt for the girl that “flipped out.” I have had fantasies of rounding up all of these women as well!! Obviously just fantasy, of course.
I am constantly frustrated with the fact that he will never feel the hurt that any of us have felt because of his harem. No consequences is right! There is ALWAYS another one waiting in the wings. My pain comes from the realization that I’ve never been considered “special” by someone who I cared so deeply about. Be wary of the “connection” syndrome (we have been doing this dance since I was in my early twenties. I’m 38 now.) It doesn’t exist! This is the hardest concept I’ve had to grasp and I clearly struggle with it every day. Being in the dustbin is very strange and difficult. But it has to be worth it! We all deserve to have the love we are looking for! The fact that we are all reading this site means that we are taking steps in the right direction! Hang in there everyone!
Getting There, that’s a great message! A warning though, that I went through months of total honesty, telling him clearly about his behaviour and the humiliation and his disgusting treatment of me and other women, said I didn’t know why I should be friends with him, before realising I had to eat my words (Natalie has written about this brilliantly). It all bounced off him and while I was still accepting his bad behaviour in my actions, he was still the cat that got the cream. I can’t imagine having any contact now.
Yes it is hard not to be considered ‘special’ after so many years. We were in this thing for well over a decade on and off, I invested so much and really loved him, and I find it heartless that he could ultimately not give a monkey’s and pretty much deny the whole thing. I just don’t get it! I’m not sure whether that means there was no connection, or if there was a connection but he just didn’t value it. Or is there just no such thing? I also am frustrated about him getting away with it and not hurting, but I don’t think he feels much at all, or he finds shallow escapes from the feelings and then thuds back to earth.
There’s no easy answer to the struggle, but being out of it is so much better than being in and this site is so helpful!
Musicians, from my vast experience with them, can be primo harem kings. I am still hurting from a 7-year experience with the latest one. It sickens me that I tried to be so ‘reasonable’ about being at a gig with a roomful of past sex-partners, along with a number of future ones in waiting. And I would get all the anger and censure for being jealous, no matter what blatant behaviour took place in front of me. Gaslighting all the time. When I get over the self-contempt, I hope there are better things in store for me. Right now I’m just reading here and licking my wounds. Perfect post, NML.
Oh, my gosh…I can’t believe that Natalie and I are on an IDENTICAL wavelength and even use the same terminology. Five years ago I dated a guy who turned out to be a complete and total emotionally abusive, game-player, unavailable male. Unbeknownst to me, he was into group sex. He had female friends constantly hanging on him – literally hanging on him, wanting to be in his circle, etc. I had no idea of this until after we started dating. Up until then, for the eight months that I had known him and that I had interacted with him when we ran into each other at places that we frequented, we would talk quite a bit about different things. I never saw the harem. In fact, he usually seemed to be alone with a couple of male friends. In any event, once we started dating, there was a throng of women always going up to him, hugging him, even kissing him on the cheeks or a peck on the lips – right in front of me. He did nothing to stop it. Since I was new to dating at the time, I wasn’t sure if that was the thing to do nowadays and in that type of crowd (upscale), but my gut feeling told me that it was disrespectful to me and that it was not OK. In the end, I had to end it.
I was never in love with the guy, but I did grow to have feelings for him. Overall, especially at the beginning, it was fun dating him due to the socializing and get-togethers that we went to, which is the type that I liked at the time and that I was used to. Suffice it to say that after breaking up, I referred to the “groupies” as his “harem.” These women had no self-respect or self-dignity, and they certainly had no respect for me or concern for my dignity. I realized that the reason that short, fat, unattractive little guy had so many women after him was because he was rich (which I didn’t know at the time we started dating — he was extremely cheap), and most importantly, because he seemed HARMLESS. He seemed like a sweet little teddy bear — THAT is what attracted the women: they felt SAFE with him…a huge mistake to make! Dating that guy was one of the worst experiences I’ve had. I started to feel worthless, unwanted and what’s worst – unlovable. At that point I had pretty much decided to part ways. It was something else that caused it, but the point is that I was unhappy and was readying myself to leave. After several other bleepholes (cheaters), I stopped dating altogether. They can keep their harems and their frozen hearts. I want no part of useless creeps who just take up space on the planet.
Oh dear! Oh dear!! While I considered my A/C ‘cute’ i.e. not fat, not bald etc. He LOVED saying how women found him non-threatening because he was not big or macho but he was as cunning as a rattlesnake. He loved how that worked in his favor. Karma’s a b*tch and he has 3 daughters. While I don’t wish them harm, I hope his hair falls out worrying that they will meet a man just like their daddy.
I’m breaking my rule of finishing my work before I get to read BR but I’m just about done with work stuff and I loved this post. I cheated and read BR while I was working but refrained from commenting until my grading was done. Natalie, your writing is so clear and beautiful in this post. My goodness. You are the perfect example/model of how practice makes perfect in writing and in thinking, presuming there is a relationship.
I’ve been on both sides of the Narcissistic Harem. Trust me, I didn’t realize that maintaining contact with my ex’es constituted a harem. But that’s precisely what it was. I thought I was being nice and got an ego stroke to boot. What’s not to like? They blew smoke up my bum cos I was so great. Of course, what we all overlooked is that they were ex’es for good reason. I remember telling exMM #2 how all my ex’es would have me back in a heartbeat. But they would. This is ironic. As exMM #1 faded, my first ex husband emailed and said he was happily married but would I like to have a fling? I responded NOPE. Poor wife #1. Within days, exMM#2 emailed. Then I hooked up with exMM#2. Poor wife #2. I think my point is that I’ve maintained a harem and so have they. I really didn’t realize I maintained a harem. I’ve got to be much more accountable for my actions and I’ve got to get more consciousness around regarding my actions. I was totally devastated by exMM#2. Harems don’t much work on either end, in my experience.
Natalie, this is a brilliantly written post. It’s a must in a book. Gracious, you write so clearly and brilliantly. Thank you. I had a harem???? Oh oh. Moreover, he had a harem, Oh oh. A nice, comforting oh, oh moment.
No more harems for me. BTW, a former ex harem member of mine looks like shit. 5o lbs overweight, limping. and failing professionally. I am gob smacking myself upside the head. Dear lord. This was the abusive guy that I couldn’t get over. I’m with Grace. Sometimes it’s just embarrassing.
I have no harem.
I’ve made similar mistakes. Not with exes, but with a bunch of guys I used to hang around with. All of them were handsome, somewhat successful, witty, sociable… and unavailable, judging from most of their failed romantic relationships. I’ve never dated any of them, but I’ve given them constant ego strokes and vice versa. They all somehow “competed” for my attention. I, on the other hand, regularly twisted myself into a pretzel to please them. I saw nothing wrong with this. *sigh*
Whenever I (briefly) dated a guy, I regretted not being able to hang out with my “harem” while being with the guy. Whenever there were issues with the guy (such as him not calling me, him being abusive, or him asking for commitment I felt unable to give), I turned to my harem, because they made me “feel good” again. They made me feel attractive, desired, “worthy” again. Or so I believed. This went on like that for more than a decade.
I thought I “needed” all of them to ease my constant inner pain. Now I believe this pain came from unresolved childhood issues. Those guys didn’t really make me feel good, but they helped me avoid dealing with this crap. But what I really want is DEAL WITH IT and stop the ache.
Mine called them “candidates,” can you believe that. That was when I realized I would also end up being, or was already considered a “candidate” also.
I don’t want to be on that list. I feel as though he has a Rolodex, and spins it, like “Wheel of Fortune”, and whoever it lands on, gets an e-mail, rarely an actual phone call, not unless he is in the vicinity and “needs” you immediately. How sick, he is very convincing.
He is like a box of Cracker Jacks, there is always a surprise. But it’s never any good.
I realized mine was trying to make me a candidate when he tried to make me a booty call when he was in my area. Had he been in a different area/neighborhood, I’m sure it would have been a different girl he was calling up. Rolodex style for sure.
LOL! Very Funny! “He is like a box of Cracker Jacks, there is always a surprise. But it’s never any good.” I’m going to remember this one, Thanks!
OMG Natalie,
Thanks for writing about this… and you know that I was a part of his harem…6’6″ handsome playa that he is. It was really mind effing to say the least, and even though I’ve been out of it for months now and in NO CONTACT for months (even though he moved 8 houses down) I still take it day-by-day to get stronger and happier.
I still get a few moments of jealousy of the other harem girls, and this story is sooo messed up, because his ‘primary woman’ had his baby at end of December. He actually pounded on my door in the snow & rain demanding I unblock his phone number, after the baby was born,…. and wanted me to come back into his harem… while he gave the biggest amount of time to the baby-mama and his infant, and a secret amount of time to a new ‘lateral’ harem girl- the one that made me flush with jealously. I couldn’t understand why he brought the newest one on board when I loved him so much. There is no sense to be made of it.
Thanks to Baggage Reclaim and everything I have learned from you and the ladies who post here, My answer – words & actions to him: NO. No way. I didn’t unblock him, and I didn’t rejoin the stupid, horrible situation.
Day by day I am forgetting him! I’m keeping busy both at work and in my social life…. and I even managed a really excellent shag (safe sex) last weekend with a guy of my choice. (TMI? too much info?,,, well, I was faithful to Harem Master for something like 14 months… So to break that spell and enjoy another man was like a milestone).
I will NEVER join a harem again. I like being the One & Only…hope in the future to find a good man…..
Peace Out, Y’All !
Of ALL your wonderful posts, this one is so right on for me, Nat! My former MM A/C actually laughs at his best bud because he just hangs on no matter if he calls him back or otherwise pays any attention to him! He said it. And what did I end up being? The same kind of pathetic hanger-on! He is always the life of the party, most popular person, greatest guy – and of course that was what attracted me in the first place. He IS loved by everyone, but he always avoids making anyone really mad, never pushes the envelope- always gets away with disrespect because they kiss his arse, and he always hosts the parties, buys the drinks, because he HAS to be loved to feel special. And among all these harem goers is the wife, who won’t tell him to get lost no matter how badly he treats her (though she has her own problems- is an alcoholic). And count me among them. He never had the balls to leave because then everyone would be mad at him – or so he thought despite all the friends kissing his butt – in his eyes he might be seen as less than saintly . I finally, and more than once, broke it off because I wouldn’t- couldn’t – continue the lies and cheating; he said he couldn’t continue it either, but continued to chase me and try to engage me . I’m not sure which came first with him; do you shaft people you love then need the harem to make you feel better, or feel good because of the harem, and feel entitled to treat people you love (me included) badly?
And like so many on here, I just need to resolve this feeling of still missing the A/C….
Tess…whenever I start to miss the ex-AC/EUM I go read my journals from the time that we were together. Clears it up right quick. From my journals I can remember that the relationship was NEVER good, he is not someone to miss and I’m in a much better place. I also remember the gut-wrenching ache I walked around with all the time. I may be single but at least I’m not going insane.
Tess & RML
I remember that gut wrenching ache, unable to concentrate on anything, unable to get out of bed, wondering why he didn’t want me, and generally missing him. Ugh! Once you get past that you realise they are not as special as you thought. When I was feeling really low about 5 months ago I kept a feelings diary daily, I also bored everyone on BR with my progress and how I was feeling. When I occasionally look back at my diary I can’t believe how depressed I was and missing someone who didn’t give a rats arse about me. I do still think about our short time together, but I don’t wish I was with him because when I was, I constantly was over thinking everything and allowed his actions and comments to make me feel insecure.
Stephanie,
That is such an encouragement; I really needed to read something like that today. I’ve been struggling with depression for the past few months, and just knowing that one day I will finally gain a more complete perspective and not miss him so badly gives me hope. I know I’m not going to spontaneously combust into a better person with a healthy self-image…I’ve got to keep working on me. Some days it just seems like this fog will never lift, but hearing stories like yours gives me hope to press on. Thank you!!!
Another great post NML…. I realized after reading it and thinking some that yes, I believe he did have a harem…hmmm, interesting… I never really gave it much thought but was surprised that when we went out together sometimes women would be ready to jump off there bar stools to give him a welcoming hug and then see me and go into the freeze mode.. I want no parts of the harem , they can have him, he’s really not that great 🙂
I am on my second Narcissist we have kids together he broke up with and did not tell me he ended it did not speak to me for a month! After a month he text me daily now but does not want to get back together. This has been going on for months. Behind my back he speaks ill of me and says how much he dislikes me but text and emails daily. I tried NC for days he emailed me asking about the kids then cursed me out all angry saying I was keeping him from the kids. It was he who wanted to break up not me I am so confused 🙁
Charity, there’s a term for this – it’s called mind fuckery.
First off, when someone effs off for the month, it is them keeping themselves from the kids, not you.
Two, NC isn’t a game and it’s not the type of thing you do for a few days.
Three, before you put boundaries between you and an ex, you make proper arrangements about how the situation will be handled with the kids. This is the mature thing to do on both sides. Do not use the kids as leverage. He doesn’t need to be with you to continue being a father.
Four, the fact that he slags you off your back while contacting you only shows how he wants you under his control.
Five, get help. If you have family and friends, you need to tell them what is happening and enlist their support in breaking free. If not (or you feel you’ve potentially exhausted that route already through previous breakups), there are lots of support groups in each area for women who will help you to form a plan and take steps to protect you and your children and to start rebuilding your life.
Six, when someone behaves in this manner, it is time to take a parachute and jump. Bad things happen to people who gamble with abusers and the first time you may realise this is when it’s too late.
You and your kids deserve better and you don’t want to have your children replicate this unhealthy dynamic when they’re older. This site is full people who were children just like yours. Get help.
I don’t get “four”, above. How does someone slagging you off (talking shite) about you behind your back while still contacting you mean they want control over you?
I am confused!
I’m guessing the point is, he’s not contacting you because he cares, or because he has any intention to serve your interests, as he has been slagging you off behind your back, and therefore does not respect you. The only reason he can be getting in contact is to make sure he gets whatever he wants. Controlling you to serve his own needs.
Because they know the info will filter back to you eventually
I think it’s even more wicked than that. If they slag you off behind your back, people will mistrust you. Thus, if you complain to those people about your partner’s abuse, they might believe him, not you, because of the (false) things he said about you. Thus he gains more and more control over you.
My narcissistic mother used to do that to me all the time. It’s really really wicked. It’s maybe a psychopath’s favourite weapon. This tactic alone can destroy lives. Be very careful.
…oh, so they want to keep you “off balance” & thus wanting to “prove them wrong”–right?
I am so happy I–and everyone I hang with (now)–am NOT like this!
This post resonated with me on so many levels. I became part of harem for the first time ever and it was quite an experience. I honestly didn’t feel that I was the same as all of the other women because I didn’t idolize him. I challenged him and called him out on his b.s. I also didn’t socialize with him and all of the other females (or as tired_of_assanova says, “exes, ex-dates, friends-cum-dates secretly in waiting, booty call(s)”). I stayed away from the ridiculous parties where it was so obvious that all of the women were vying of his attention. But pride goes before the fall as they say. I liked him despite his arrogance and despite the harem. I thought that he saw me as DIFFERENT. How wrong I was. I think that people like him tune into your energy. Whether you are feisty or more passive …. if you’re interested and they deem you worthy of a shag (as you Brits say) … they zoom in on you and exploit your weakness. I think that your blog, Natalie, is helping us not to allow ourselves to be exploited. To recognize the signs of immaturity in other people and this unavailability which seems so pervasive. I really hope that there is a special place in Karmic law for the supremely selfish who take advantage of other people. To harm a heart is terrible crime. Suffice it to say – I’m still recovering from the experience. Mostly it’s my pride.
Fallback no more, again it’s a comment I can totally relate to. I also thought I was DIFFERENT. I knew other women humiliated themselves for him, tried to find ways to control him, and I never thought I was one of them until it came to an end. His MO was to exploit women by finding, as you say, a weakness – be it an emotional problem, work that needs doing, and offer to plug that ‘gap’, not fulfilling the promise but giving it in crumbs. Maybe it was a subconscious MO but that was the hook. One of my favourite lines of his was that he had TOO MUCH love to give to limit it to one person. Nope. He had NO LOVE at all. If he knew I was writing this, it would probably boost his ego because I’m giving him the attention. What’s important here is to know what we were a part of, what we were buying in to, recognise our role and look at ourselves with compassion and honesty.
I can’t believe you used that word Natalie. I actually said to my ex. F U if you think I will ever be part of your pathetic harem. I always smelled shady with my ex especially during breakups of which there were numerous. It became a game. I would cut his ass off and he would come begging complete with gifts, tears, spoiling and declarations of undying love. I would feel good that I rose above the harem when in fact I was the loser. I was the one he felt he had to have only because I was the only one dumping him. The rollercoaster ride lasted way too long. So glad I finally saw him for who he is (classic narcissist) and you helped alot. I am NC 5 months but it isn’t easy. He still calls and texts but getting less and less. I know 100% that this man is not only dangerous but toxic!
After having read this post, I think I might be the chair person of my very own harem. And I am, quite frankly, shocked. How do I get from there to being an emotionally available, nice person? Any comments and suggestions appreciated.
M, I couldn’t help but laugh as there is some irony to your realisation and your question and plea for help from people to chime in. Sure you could have a whole new harem right here!
Good point. But that’s obviously exactly my problem – I have absolutely no clue what to do to break the pattern.
M.,
I posted a suggestion below (when I was on my phone – no threading). I thought about this some more, and I think I am on the right track… Let me know what you think.
Ick ick, the ‘ex friend’ used to call ‘us’ his “projects”. my OH and I didn’t know he had a harem of both genders. He would try and assimilate anyone pretending to be wealthy but was actually cheap. once he found no more use for them he’d disrespect them and spit them out. He is an N too ick, flush and stay NC and forget about the mutual friends they don’t see the bad stuff in him. Better to save yourself.
It took being raped by another man and going through rape counseling for me to realize that I am codependent on an assclown. As I continue therapy I hope that I can break free from the emotional turmoil that I have lived with for the past five years of trying to keep my “friendship” with a man that truly only uses me when it is convenient for him. I would do anything just to have a five minute conversation with him on the phone or an evening with him. I hope this time I can find enough love for myself to let go forever. I just want to stop hurting all the time.
Hi Leatha,
I know it is really really hard to go through the hurting after ending a relationship and have no contact with them. I thought I wasn’t strong enough to do it and thought a long lingering decline in the relationship and my self esteem was preferable. But it isn’t. It can’t ever be. You will hurt for a while, and panic but you absolutely will only recover by getting him out of your life. You have been through a terrible experience too so I really feel for you. But I fear that if you depend on this man to help you through he will really let you down more.
Polly,
You are right, he continues to let me down every time I need him. I am doing everything within my power to break this chain I just have to find the strength to get through it.
Thank you for responding.
You know Natalie, I was saying to myself the other day how I would love this topic to come up in a post.
My ex EUM, well I suspect before we officially got together that I was part of a harem (although I never gave him any attention publically). I should have known based on a last minute (on the day) Valentine’s Day date drinks offer…obviously noone else wanted to go out with him (thanks but no thanks). I was wiser then.
I never really trusted him and I guess that’s what was one of the biggest reasons our relationship ended (besides his disrespectful behaviour, selfishness, lying and omissions). There was just something about him that made me feel anxious. Following a pretty open close case of deceptive assholery (long story) I broke up with him.
And boy he wasn’t happy when I defriended him on Facebook. Although he did seem to mind being broken up with that much that Facebook thing hit hard. I guess it was embarrassing for him or he probably wanted to line me up to use at another date. I’ve had a few peaks at his Facebook since (but have long given up now, he’s blocked) and all these women fawning over him. I can tell he probably sits and chats with them all simultaneously..the way he used to sit and chat with me. Maybe he has the odd favourite based on what day of the week it is. It doesn’t matter anymore.
I’m glad I removed myself from that situation because I am so much better than that.
When my ex got a hold of me last Aug and said he missed me, loved me and effed up, we chatted with some of his fast-forwarding, future faking, reset button, “where was my unconditional love for him” – it all came down to as simple as this – and I told him “this week you want me back, next week you’ll want K**** and the next week M****. Just leave me alone you mind-effer” Period end of story, quite honestly, it is exhausting dealing with these types. I am just trying to recup and take care of myself!!!
this is my first post. natalie, you got me through a breakup with a EUM, and so first, i have to thank you for that. thank you, natalie. second, i had a brief relationship-let after that, with a guy who professed kindness and gentleness but turned out to be a classic elektra-complex narcissist, complete with harem of exes, who wanted to freeload off me but protested indignantly at the mere suggestion of that thought. it took me too long to dump him, but finally i did because i 1) was uncomfortable, 2) saw through his bullsh!t, 3) realized that it was his fault, not mine, he came effed up and i had nothing to do with it and there was nothing i could do to fix it, not that it was fixable at all, and that 4) i valued myself waaaaay more than that and losing him was no loss. in fact, his actions actually disgusted me, made me sick to my core, and i actually listened to these feelings, i validated myself!! so for the first time in my life, i defended myself and my boundaries, without even getting defensive, and just ended it. told him he could think and say whatever he wanted about me, i was done. and the sense of inner quiet, peace even, at having upheld my boundaries is … everything you said it would be.
if it weren’t for you, i wouldn’t be able to even recognize a EUM, or an AC, or this screwed up narcissist with his gross harem. i wouldn’t have been able to stand up for myself or to be happy about it afterwards. and i wouldn’t have understood that how i want it to be is how it needs to be for me, and that i need to keep going and opting out until i find it.
thank you, natalie. thank you.
Me too – what she said….
I’m a new (and improved!) woman due to BR!
I’m new here too, but I gotta say this: I’m yet to come across a more helpful place! Thank you so much, Natalie, and all you wise ladies posting here! I’m benefiting so much from your sound advice!
Wow! If only I’d seen this site, and this post, a few years back.
I went out with someone who had a harem. Most of his friends were women, and all of his FB mates, bar about 5 people, were also women.
The woman he worked with he’d had a fling with. He was one of only two men who worked in his office – and all the women there seemed to think he was cheese.
At a birthday party in a club one night, I realised he’d either slept with, snogged, or had a relationship with every single woman in the room, including the barmaid. He was incredibly tactile, and so to walk into a bar and find him having a good ol’ ‘platonic’ cuddle with one of his colleagues was usual. He’d have calls at 6am from one of his women, apparently for a chat, and when pushed, he’d admit she was trying to hook up for sex.
One of his colleagues told me I was too insecure to date him. Yes, I was. And I would be again, given those circumstances. Ridiculous.
We haven’t been together for 5 years now. But I see him pretty regularly, surrounded by the same people, and a few new women, and his girlfriend, all in a big group, with him at the centre, like a giant clown. It all makes me feel rather sick. I stuck around for too long, thinking I was too narrow-minded and cynical about platonic friendships. But the final straw came when it got back to me that he’d tried it on with the 18-year-old friend of his younger brother, and when she turned him down, he’d gone and slept with his 50-year-old landlady.
It’s just not normal to need that much female attention.
And the uneasiness I experienced was very normal.
Reading this Rachel made me cough while eating my lunch towards the end. What a complete creep. He’d stick it in a bowl of soup if it was warm. Thank goodness you’re not that soup. One day, either his dick will fall off or he might even realise that he’s spent his whole life being an attention seeking penis with nothing to show for it.
rolling with laughter Nat – “One day, either his dick will fall off or he might even realise that he’s spent his whole life being an attention seeking penis with nothing to show for it.”
my ex an his alcoholic neighbor/best friend “loved their penis'” so much that his neighbor had a saying hanging from the back of his truck saying “I love my penis” and my ex had to write it on his bar in the backyard “I love my penis”, well I sure hope they have fun loving their penis’ LMAO!!!!
Nat… OMG… where do u come up with stuff. I almost spit my soda all over my computer screen with laughter…. I hope my AC’s dick does fall off or shrivals up to nothing then falls off 🙂
I was recently invited to an ex’s birthday party. She mentioned that she was a little nervous because I was the third ex she had invited and she wasn’t sure how her new boyfriend (future victim) would react. I declined. I’m sure her bf just loves attending parties where all the guests have slept with his gf! Oh, and she has also hinted that she would be open to a FWB arrangement with me, and get this! If she is single at 40 and I haven’t had a baby she says we should make one. Thanks for keeping that backup spot warm for me…I can’t imagine what I saw in her, now. Glad she dumped me! The clock is running on her new relationship, as she can only hold it together for a maximum of six months, so next year the current future ex will be invited to join the birthday harem.
Yikes, what a creep!
Reminds me a little bit of an ex of mine. I still shudder when I think about him. On the bright side, he did give me a wakeup call.
When I hear about men like that I don’t think “oh…he’s a bad lad” or “he has issues…” I think “wtf is wrong with the women who find that sort of man attractive?”
Too many women judge a man’s desirability based purely on the number of other women clamouring for his attention.
Lots of men are hip to this reality will actively try to create the illusion that they are in demand when they are not.
Go follow Justin Bieber if you want to worship someone who has no time for you!
But do the exact opposite if you want a serious relationship. Seek out the good men who are undervalued and under-appreciated by all the mindless sheep.
Chrysalis Gurl – you nailed it. The women who chased or just associated with my ex at parties were what I would call “mindless sheep.” He chased me hard – probably because I, unlike the mindless sheep women, did not chase him. Once he caught me, after 2.5 months the “A.D.D.” set in – I think he missed the excitement of chasing and being chased – just didn’t like to settle in to something. In fact, oddly, on our dates, he would sometimes comment on just how many women he had dated, and even told me he had trouble finding women that could hold his attention. I should have taken this as a WTF, but instead, took it as, “And I’m the ONE he really likes!” Oh, he was so genuine seeming, such a pro future faker. Ack.
Long time reader, first time poster. I always read others’ posts and gleam alot of insight into my own situation and I really wanted to share. I started reading your blog almost a year ago when my rollercoaster relationship of 2 years ended and picked back up again, and then ended January 2012.
First off thank you for your insight. I felt like I was going crazy dealing with an emotionally unavailable, selfish monster. He told me I was too demanding, jealous, needy, etc. etc. etc. I went to therapy thinking I was broken and needed fixed. Which technically I did.
Anywho, as it stands now I’m not crazy for thinking all those girls who he hadn’t seen in years but would come out of the wood work for an occasional ego stroke were not genuine friends. No matter how much he would try and convince me these girls were amazing friends they had no respect for me or our relationship, and would literally throw themselves on him right in front of me.
He started dating one of his harems within a week of our final break up. His account was she wasn’t fully out of a physically abusive relationship with a guy and he was “saving” her from the situation. Prior to knowing this I committed to NC for almost 2 months, but got weak in the knees and compromised myself for my libido. Two days after being with me and telling me he wanted to go to counseling, get married, that things would be different he ran cold and told me not to contact him anymore. Lovely last words to say to someone that waited 7 months for your needy ass through an Air Force deployment.
Anyways, I can say I was a harem or fallback girls or what have you. It’s not a good place to be and I refuse to go back. The thing that I struggle with the most is how much I compromised myself and how hard it is forgive myself. I know I’m human but I thought I was better prepared for dealing with this ridiculous behavior and if I came across it again it would smack me in the face and I would flush. So for now I will keep on keeping on and take it one day at time.
Thank you all for letting me air my laundry! It is greatly appreciated 🙂
Wow! Your story and mine could be the same, except the the ex EUM dated an old friend who was in an abusiver relationship years after I broke up with him and sees her as the best thing right after sliced bread!
Makes me laugh too…to think that I was so in love with the “Champion” or how I like to call him “the Golden Boy” of the newsroom. This guy dated my boss (and then denied it and then admitted it!), dated me, dated another girl after me and his current girl also someone who worked in the same place as the rest of us. Yet everyone there (including her) think that I’m the crazy one and the horrible ex! Hahahaha….I laugh because I used this term so many times and people used to give me funny looks.
God is good ladies and my, my, my…men like these need to meet him and get a good dose of Wake The F Up!
The ex eum had three harems, one made up of exes he always tried to remain friends with them or them with him. He was quite perplexed when discussing an ex with me one day and she didn’t want his friendship, he went on to console himself that many of his other exes are his friend.
He also has another harem made of women he’d like to date, or have sex with, but they don’t want to date or have sex with him. With this harem he will host regular lunches and takes various one to social events if he isn’t dating anyone at the time. He prys into their lives and ‘helps’ with any relationship problems, life problems etc etc they maybe having. In return he expects their loyalty to him, but as far as I can tell though unsure he doesn’t share his problems with them. He will often make one of them to feel the outsider and displaced so they will work harder at the smoke blowing maching to get back into the harem. He will add new members and disown members if they show any disloyalty. He once added a new member and had a harem lunch and declared her his new best friend, this set the other harem members off into drama land especially those who are long term members. He then fell out with his new best friend and his words the others were relieved. If you are an ex and really, really good one day you may be admitted to this harem whooooooo.
I was denied entry haha.
The third harem is made up of his male friends, not many of his friends are in long term stable relationships most are made up of like minded people so they can all high five each other when they have cheated.
I too have had my own online harem, took going offline for a solid year to dismantle it. I can see what an ego boost it is if someone is being abusive to you and then people are telling no no you aren’t like that at all.
Tulipa,
Shouldn’t laugh but, well, I did!! I recognise those scenarios from an ex-colleague. If they were chocolate they would eat themselves!
I have to admit I can laugh too now at the absurdity of it all and how much I wanted a harem lunch invitation. It sent me into a spiral to think I wasn’t good enough for lunch.
I’d endure hearing all about them and what went on etc.
Yes, they’d also think they were the best quality chocolate out there to.
Ha, ha, ha, oh my gosh. This is what my ex had (was a “champion” well known around town whom everyone at large “loved” and I was always told “how lucky I was”)….LOL!…did not know there was a word for it. You made my day. He did have people clucking around him like chickens when we went out – and no doubt, behind my back. He is constantly stroked and pined for on Facebook. After dumping me, he never looked back nor called to check on me. You are so right – this surface attention distracts them from anything real in a relationship. And you know what? People who thrive on their “narcissistic harems” are very shallow people. As I came to know his “friends” via parties, etc., it reminded me of high school in L.A., which I had not seen in my current city. Gag. No thanks.
The reason these Unauailables need Lots of Women is because You can’t do the same things over and over again and get the same Results. It is SAD and PATHETIC and anyone with a brain ….figures it out and Moves on ……
My mom use to say something that really bothered me when I was young “Birds of a feather flock together” – oh so wise, especially now that I am older.
The harem just makes me want to throw up. Barf!! My ex always had to remind me how all his ex’s want him, the girl down the block, etc, etc he even had the nerve to play a message for me from one his gay female groupies that she left him on Valentine’s Day – and after I listened to it, he said “she told me if she wasn’t gay I’d be the first she would be with” – LMAO!! I mean really – they need to get “it” from where ever they can!!
The first “harem master” (I cannot call them chairmen as they seem to have a strong sense of ownership and control) I met was a rebound after I broke up with my so-called bf (who, I suspect, was EU, but I did not realize it at the time). Since we both went through breakups in the same week, and I was not all that attracted to him physically, I thought it would be safe to spend some time, drink, cry, etc. He warned me I “would get hurt” and I thought “no way!” I did get hurt albeit not a way he imagined – I missed him as a friend, but would not have wanted him for a bf. While we were in contact he kept telling me about all these women that “needed” and “wanted” him and he would regularly have food/drinks/most likely sex with, when not in a relationship. As many of you, I felt I was “special” since I “understood” him. ha ha, I thought we were similar or something (NOT). Eventually I asked outright and he admitted he was EU (he is a degreed psychologist) AND that this is the way he makes friends – has only one male friend, and the rest are women he had slept with. They come back, talk to him, complain about their new romances; it screams DRAMA. Hesitantly, I did NC (months at a time) – but I felt since we were always open with each other he did not “deserve” it. So, we text once in a few months, in a civil way, but I do not consider it a friendship, and I certainly refuse to talk to him about his harem. I wonder WHY do I even bother, WHY do I not just ignore him 100%? Bc he was “honest” with me? And I with him? Bc he might “help” me? I asked a counselor and he said behavior like this is a sign of trying to be in control due to a deep sense of insecurity. When we were seeing each other I was not “allowed” to go to certain places bc one or more of his exes would be “jealous”. Really? Maybe they were not exes after all…. Anyway, next time I talked to some guy who told me he was friends with all his exes and they had weekly dinners and that was his social life, I just said no. He said if I was better than his current FWB he would be willing to break up with her, but the dinners with exes were non-negotiable (i.e., I would have to be friends with them and approved by them to be able to have a relationship with him). I can only think WTF??? I told him I was not all that competitive, but it made me wonder: Are we, as women, THAT desperate?…
P
That’s interesting.
My ex AC had a degree in psychology and lets face it,if anyone could screw you over emotionally,it could be someone who had studied psychology. I’m not suggesting that applies to everyone.
I’m sure most therapists are ethical.
I thought he was right about things because he had a degree, and a band on his wrist that said “faith”.( I have now learned from this )
The final straw with the AC followed this conversation-
me-” Where do you live ?” (I had never been to his house )
AC- ” I don’t know ”
I ended it.
I phoned my sister an told her what had just happened and she said-
” You should have told him f*ck off back to his cardboard box and never bother you again ”
She then said-
“Are you sure he’s not mentally ill ? ”
I replied- ” No.He has a degree ”
He also had a herem which I found out about when it was too late.
Another great post Natalie .
Psychiatry, and psychology, happen to be among the top 5 professions of choice for socially functioning psychopaths, acc. to Sandra Brown’s book “Women who love psychopaths”. Many end up working in couselling because the enjoy the power it give them over the lives of other people. Scary, yes, just saying.
Teddie
Thanks for the input and I’m not surprised by that.
What are the other 4 ?
Teddie,
OMG, that explains so much! People used to tell me I was too picky when I felt weird about a therapist or described what I thought was unprofessional (often judgmental or intrusive) behavior.
Yes, what are the other professions?
This made me laugh so much. Mine used to use ‘I don’t know’ in answer to any question I used to ask that attempted to uncover his bull shit. If I ever asked why he was taking a particular course of destructive action he would either say ‘I don’t know’ or ‘I don’t like ‘why’ questions’. Also a psychology expert. They are the worst for sure
Polly
“I don’t like why questions”
Like he’s some inscrutable zen master, whose motives are so deep as not to be comprehensible to impertinenent lesser mortals. What a load of toss.
Hahaha you got it Mymble! Toss indeed
There are many words I could use to describe the AC and his life but ” Top Secret ” would be a good one.
It was also a great lesson for me.I feel really good most of the time and I have a really good laugh at some of the things he said and did.
If there is such a thing as Karma these people should be very worried.
Tanzanite,
I appreciate your comments on this thread. Top Secret? I was so close to thinking the ex-bf was a secret agent or in a witness protection program! He would not tell me what jobs/when / where he had, or anything about his prior relationships! He would drop hints but no clear info. *N0w* I think that is BS! What’s so secret about working at a bank, for example? I was making excuses for him because maybe he was shy? I should not have cared as I had feelings, too! What a lopsided situation that was…
Hi P
Not sure if it was something Natalie said or a quote from a book which I read but when you come to the time when your questioning your sanity that’s the time to get out of the relationship.( I don’t know why I keep calling it a relationship, it certainly wasn’t )
Why would someone keep their address secret ?
Why would someone lie about their age ?
Why would someone say they are at work when they are not ?
Is he a spy ? No! He is just a f*ckin liar !
In the end I could always tell when he was lieing,his mouth was open.
Onward and upward for us.
LMAO @”f*ck off back to his cardboard box!!”
What to do, think, feel, when your ex shows integrity, shyness, sincerity, kindness and humbleness to every each one in the outside world, but has absolutely no manners when it comes to his girlfriend. He would say the meanest and most hurtfull things, dripfeed information about his whereabouts and evenings out, saying ‘it’s just not that interesting’, and then say I have issues and problems and seeing ghosts because I sometimes begged for him to show some more intimacy and all those public qualities with me. Also he would act out once home or with me, and never éver apologise for the damage done. He also had a handful of female friends, who he used to always prioritise over me, because they were his friends for so long and I was somebody he had to get to know. Almost all his female ‘best friends’ had made a move on him in the past, or had had a thing or a night with him and he saw no problem of sharing thàt information with me mind you. It’s like they got the good side (and therefore only had minor glimps of the a*hole he would be) and I got the bad. I also had to be perfect while he could go out and act like a drunken 15 year old with who ever he found first during the night. ‘Freedom’ was a seat with only his name on it. I broke it off with him a couple of weeks ago, because I was so tired of all the catch 22’s. He’s already broadening his circle of female friends again, and makes d*mn well sure I know he’s doing it, cause he’s doing with people I have regular contact with, but are no real friends. I know he thinks I deserve it, to be reminded and hurt by this, this man does not have a clean mirror. He thinks he’s got the right of the universe on his side. It’s just so hurting because I tried everything to just make him understand how his way of being in our relationship was so selfcentered and demeaning for me and he would turn every single thing back to me ‘dramatising’ everything, making it my problem and my problem alone. Ugh.
Working hard
It’s not you, it’s him !
You just described my ex.
There is hope for you.If you let go of this person your life will improve and eventually it will feel like an awakening.His never will because he doesn’t realise he has a problem.Dont’ ever fall for the friend card because he is doing that for himself too.Cut his narcassitic supply and don’t look back.
good luck x
Hi Tanzanite,
thanks for your reply.
I don’t know if he doesn’t know he has a problem, he started doing intensive therapy months ago and after major outburst he’d sometimes (but seldom) say he knows he has a problem and is working hard on it. I’m still puzzled what he ment with working hard on it, really, I never saw the work done. But more often he would just say that his therapist thinks I need therapy too. When he came home with that theory the first time it gave me the goosebumps. Hé often said before, I needed ‘help’, and now his therapist was backing him up, and there I was, in the spotlight again. MY issues. My jealousy, my drama, my worries, my fears: they weren’t real. But a gut feeling is! I for one like attention like any other, but I don’t go actively seeking it. He acts as if they (women) come flying to him and he says that surprises him to and he doesn’t ‘see’ how he ‘does’ it, but really, does it work like that? I réally don’t think so.
But anyway, I àm feeling better, unlike a lot of advice for throwing every message and picture or video away, I kept those that breath his personality like it really is. And watching video’s, pictures and reading those awfully hurting emails has helped me to keep focussed on reality. He’s just not thàt special. Really. He isn’t.
Working hard
Let me give you an example-
I trusted the AC 100%.I never questioned where he was,who he was seeing,what he was doing etc for about 9 months.( I had no reason to )
I then had the following happen, to name but a few-
An accidental naughty text sent to me that was meant for another woman.( evidence of shady behaviour )
forgot my birthday 2 years running (couldn’t understand why this would upset me,selfish behaviour )
Another accidental text sent to me meant for a different woman ( read Natalie’s ” outrageous Principle ” )
unexplained absences followed by” sorry, I will change “( he never did )
Very secretive he kept everyone he knew in compartments and never the twain would meet.( he didn’t want anyone to compare notes on him )
Another text sent to me meant for yet another different woman (after wanting to come back to me,being sorry,and saying he can’t love anyone else )
When I talked about these incidents he would always turn it back on me and I would take the blame and question my own sanity.
Ask yourself this-
Is there a reason for your jealousy ? Has he proven he can’t be trusted ?
Does he guard his mobile with his life ? Is he self absorbed ? Does he give you any of his time ? Does he make plans for the future ? Is he there when you need him ? Are you a secret ?
They can’t expect you to trust them if they consistently prove they can’t be trusted.
Do you have insecurity issues ? Do you have low self essteem ? ( In your heart, you will know )
If you have, a narcassist is the worst person you could be with.He knows this,think of it as someone slowly chipping away at your foundations,you wont notice for a while and if you are on weak foundations to start with it wont be long before you’re brought down.
It might be both of you,but don’t worry about his issues,work on your own.There is hope for you.
Been through it,never again.
Good luck x
Thanks Tanzanite, you did a painful effort here to show me your experience.
I did trust him not to actualy cheat on me. I don’t suspect him that he has. Really. I don’t. But does that make him less accountable for his actions? I can almost swear that he didn’t, but he used every shady situation he created to make me feel the paranoid one, the ‘lesser’ one. I know I have insecurity issues because of my former experiences, which I was very open about. (that doesn’t make me a very emotional available person I know that, but I tried to be honest, that’s how I saw it anyways) But then again, when he went in the wrong he would use these to make up for his own wrongdoing. Balance was off! I know he loved me and I know he tried his best, but has he proven he could be trustworthy? No. Because cheating is the làst thing to do, not the first to prove your trustworthiness. I think that’s what keeps many women lingered, the fact they ain’t doing anything wrong, not ‘really’, but everything breathes “don’t come closer, don’t speak up, or I maybe, I will’. That was him in a nutshell. That’s what harems are for, in my opinion.
To scare you off, to say to you: hey, if you get too needy, I have a backfall, stop asking what I’m not willing to give. To you!’ Amongst many other reasons of course, reasons we should not be focussed on though. It’s not about them and what they do per se, it’s about how a partner feels when they’re around such a man. If you can not pinpoint a situation, through his actions matching his words, Out ! (better sooner than later)
Working hard
No one is above question.
You are accountable for your own actions but you are not accountable for his actions,he is .A decent person would not make an insecure person feel more insecure,if he does ,it’s just a sign of his insecurity.
I had a few problems in childhood which have probably contributed to me getting into this kind of a mess.You can manage these feelings down to their lowest level and have a happy life.In the future I wont metion anything from my past because the wrong person will hold it against you.My attitude is now ” from this day forward ”
“Dont come closer,don’t speak up,or maybe,I will ”
That’s exactly how it is !
When you have stopped trusting yourself and your gut instinct that’s how you will feel.
They rarely go down the route of introspection because of the harem blowing some up their backsides.
In defense of the harem,they might not know.All harem members possibly don’t know about each other.They all think they are ” the one ” and everyone else is a fall back girl but the narcassist knows they are all fall back girls. (he probably has a’ head girl ‘) one he likes the most,if only she could put up,and shut up,the world would be her oyster…lmao.
When I ended it with the AC , I refused the friendship card because I didn’t want to be ‘ Cuckoo in someone elses nest ‘,but there is a strong possibility I was always a harem member but never realised.
So glad it’s over !
girls!! it´s amazing how all these men make the same things…
Perhaps they follow a book of rules, ahahahah!!!
😀
First time writer. LOVER of your blog.
Natalie you must be psychic.
It’s not just what you say but WHEN you say it…your timing is uncanny….and much appreciated.
Till now I have been HAUNTED by my lack of understanding as to why the entourage (my term for his harem…since most are guys) loves him so much. I have been assuming that they get/got SO much more than I did, since I got next to nothing other than the “opportunity” to be in his presence… One example…Our few attempts at sex were the worst I’ve ever had. Never met such a selfish guy before. I figured it would be easy to get over him for that reason alone! The difficult part has been wondering if the “selfish sex” was just for the people he doesn’t care much about and the ones he loves and/or are more attracted to get the “good stuff?” Is there such a thing as good stuff with this guy and if so where was it when we were together?
I tried to do research ahead of time and he painted a lovely picture… told me he was very romantic, loves to kiss, wanted to spend quality time alone and a whole lot more but he didn’t deliver on any of his promises. Once I found out about this and the rest of his “condition” I GOT OUT but it’s tough to see the girls go crazy over him. Do they just not know yet? 🙂 He’s had a couple of longer relationships and at least one of them is still madly in love with him so it really f’s with my head as to what they have with him. Envying the entourage…yep, I’ve come a long way but it still shows up from time to time. Jealous? Hurt? Angry? I guess so…but with your great articles and a lot of grace I’m getting thru this. Thank you!
There’s an aspect of this that I can’t quite put my finger on…..for one thing, I don’t understand why any harem members would stick around for the long term? A few months of being strung along I can understand (i.e. thinking you’re in line to be his girlfriend or get back together), but beyond that….what do they get out of it? I also just can’t fathom what goes on inside the minds of these men. Sure, they are selfish and enjoy the attention, but for those who have relationships, how can they expect to do so while keeping a harem on the side? Are these men so completely lacking in self-awareness? I suspect they would have an issue with a girlfriend carrying on in a similar fashion….
A, all these comments and my own experience of sticking around show that ego issues play an important part both for King Caractac-ass and for the harem. The King/Queen has a strong need for ‘smoke up his bum’ (Natalie puts it the best way!), which wears off if you get settled with one person. It is artificial, transient and lacks depth, but that’s his/her crack.
As for the hangers on, their ego tells them they are different and can be the exception, while at the same time they have such low self esteem, they come to expect nothing better. And the King uses a whole load of devices to hold them in this place, while the harem try fruitless negotiations.
These are just a few thoughts and very generalised and open to debate.
My ex (that was never really my boyfriend) is hosting an event that I had previously agreed to go to with a mutual friend before I knew he was involved. Now I don’t really want to go BUT I’m
worried they’ll both think I’m holding a grudge AND I’m also worried they’ll have a great time without me and end up getting together, then falling in love, getting married and riding off into the sunset together on matching White horses and everyone will talk about what a great couple they are and I’ll have to pretend I agree for the rest of my life….spiralling spiralling! Should I go?
NOOOOOOOO!!! Let the fantasy go!!! Who cares what he thinks? Iknow that is easier said then done, what do you think of you? That’s what is important!!! And why put yourself in that position? How will you feel AFTER the event and going? That’s the important thing to look at!!!
These guys don’t fall in love – they fall in lust!! Trust me, your fears will NOT come to fruition with these guys. THey just keep doing the same old same old – the faces just change!
Dear Confusedd, dont go! Lets say IF they get together, and that is not likely gonna happen anyway, why would they? Do you want to stand there and watch? And IF they did, you would deal with it because the rest of your life is not going to be based around him. And guess what even your evening is not going to be based around him, it is going to be based around YOU – what does your gut tell you? Dreading it? dont go. And, dont care whether they think you have a grudge, maybe you do and maybe you dont but you could invest in having a lovely evening watching a great film or whatever. I have been in your shoes because of my ex so many times, thinking I was missing out on all sorts or not being in control of him and a hundred gorgeous (fantasy) women getting together with him because if I was there it would make a difference…Ha ha. But you know what an evening is just an evening and it passes, and the next morning it is the past and you get to wake up with a drama free head. So my answer is no, you shouldnt go 🙂
Wonderful article again! And it leads me to realise that I DID SOMETHING RIGHT!!!! After all these years, lol, praise God I did something right.
When I got together with the ex I thought how good it was that all of his previous girlfriends (and female school friends and female university friends and female colleagues past and present) were all still in his life.
Until I woke up to the fact that he had no other kind of friend… and I thought that was a bit odd and dumped him. I do not email/call/write/visit him.
I DID SOMETHING RIGHT, lol. At last!
PS The reason I don’t want to go is I swore he’d never again get another opportunity to use me and string me along, and as he had accused me of being intense and demanding I was determined to show how intensely fast I can disappear…but I’m still worried he and she will think I’m being sour!
Confusedd,
I cannot stand my roommate’s boyfriend. He is rude, lazy, and immature (despite being 12 years older than my roommate and I). I am always civil, but I try to avoid him because he annoys the hell out of me. A few months ago, my roommate told him that I didn’t hang out with the two of them because I don’t feel comfortable around him. For some reason I was really bothered and worried that he was going to think I’m a terrible person; that I don’t like him, etc. I had to stop myself and ask, Why the hell should I care about what someone else thinks about me–especially someone that I don’t even like!!! It’s like giving yourself permission not to like someone while insisting that they hold YOU in high esteem. Not a healthy (or rational) way to live.
You can’t control what people think about you. You can always try–that’s what we call manipulation. It’s dysfunctional and disrespectful to everyone involved. I know because I’ve been both the victim and the perpetrator of that kind of crazymaking. Ultimately, people are going to think and do whatever they want to anyway. Will your “ex” and this other girl think you’re being sour? Maybe. But why do you care? In all honestly, they probably won’t be thinking about you or why you’re not there because they’ll be too busy enjoying themselves and living their life. Instead of focusing on them and what they may or may not be thinking (because how do we ever know for sure anyway!) perhaps you could consider enjoying your life, and focusing on becoming a better you? It’s not easy, and I’m in the thick of some MAJOR self-work myself; but it is so much more productive than trying to futilely control someone else’s opinion of you.
And anohther thing about the harem king pin I dated – he seemed oblivious to OTT displays of lust. He would grab me inappropriately, in front of colleagues, or my dad, for example. If I was reading a book, he would shove his face between the book and me, and force me to kiss him.
It got terribly annoying pretty damn fast.
His current beau works in the same building as him, as do I. And he recently got a serious telling off by the MD for being seen by numerous other workers, having heavy-petting sessions on the tow path near where we work at lunch time And then the MD caught them at the Christmas office party, with her breast in his mouth. Seriously eww.
It makes me laugh now. There’s somthing very wrong with him.
Oh, and I’d also like to have some understanding as to why some of these guys seem to have an endless stream of accommodating women hanging about waiting for their cue.
I mean, once I’d realised what a total tool mine was, I was gone. And the idea of hanging about while he was seeing someone, would make me feel chronically pathetic. I just couldn’t do it.
But the same women are socialising with my clown. The same, apparently intelligent WOMEN. Not young girls. We’re talking intelligent, sane, responsible women. And the guy can’t even manage not to shag his gf 100 yards from the office he works at during lunchbreak. It’s freaky.
Brilliant post!
The horror of the narcissistic harem has helped me stick to NC. There were indications of a large prescence.. 500 to 600 (!!!) FB friends, comprising many young women. He claimed to use FB to publicise good causes and important issues, but i think the causes and issues were kind of part of the narcissism too – he did care, somewhat, but found it gratifying being a champion, good guy, hero, etc. He got the reputation and kudos of being an activist, without actually being very active, after all how much energy does it take to send out FB messages? (Worked well for his career too.) He mentioned having “fans”, too.
Natalie, thank you for this article and all the others on your site!!! They are an answer to a prayer for guidance. Helped me see thru the crap & dump the assclown. After I broke up with him & told him we didn’t need to speak again, i unfriended him on fb. He came back a few days later & sent me a msg asking y I had unfriended him. I ignored then the nxt wk he sent several texts trying to line me up as a friend or member of the harem. I blocked his number & went no contact. Its been the best thing to get my life back.
My ex didn’t like it at all when I unfriended him on Fakebook. As soon as I’d done it, he wrote to a mutual friend “RadioGirl just dumped me on FB!!!!!”. I guess it made him look bad to all his pilot cronies on there that I didn’t want anything more to do with him. Before I cut him off he was thanking me in public comments on his profile for a birthday present I’d given him – but it was obvious he was only doing it to look like a great bloke, as he never thanked me once in private. Also, he was miffed because my unfriending him on FB was the final confirmation that I really was cutting him off, and wouldn’t be signing up as a member of his Narcissistic Harem – no need, as he’d got plenty of others in it, both male and female!
By the way, I didn’t “dump” him on Fakebook – he had dumped me by phone 3 months earlier (he actually texted asking me to call, which I did, only for him to say he was breaking up with me). So glad the scales eventually fell from my eyes and I stopped being faux-friends with him altogether.
@Mymble – “Fans” !!! That’s hilarious, what are they like?
I just wanted to comment on the motivation of harem members – from what I can gather with my main AC (I call him that to distinguish him from a very recent brush with an EUM) 😉 a lot of them seemed to be happily married, just amused and entertained by the bumbling lost man-boy attitude he assumed, and also because (and it kills me to admit it, though it was one of the things that first attracted me to him) he really is funny and sharp-witted. They seemed to enjoy the blowing hot mode he goes into, knowing that such full-on attention will last as long as they require it because they aren’t going to make any emotional demands of him other than mutual ego-stroking. God knows what their husbands make of it though…
I went out with a guy that had a harem (male and female).
He’d split up with someone a couple of years before that he went on about (I’ll call her A). I later found out that the reason they split is that he’d been emailing and flirting with someone behind A’s back and she’d caught him at it (he denied that anything “concrete” happened). He left her, started a relationship with other woman, “B”. Then tried to get A back. “B”, caught him out, then rung A to tell her that she’d been with him right from the break-up, though he’d told her it had taken months.
“A” was heartbroken as she’d really loved him, met him when young and been with him for years. But he still continued to be friend’s with A’s mother, as the mother was actually in love with him. A’s mother was married but used to give him money, come to see him. He even told me that once she came in and caught him watching a porno (I can’t believe I went out with this dorfus). And he’d given her a back rub once when her back was sore.
At a later date, when him and me were splitting up, I caught him emailing the woman he’d left “A” for, “B” (who he then went back out with). “A”s mother came round to pick up his stuff as he wouldn’t come and do it. She went on about how he was a poor mis-guided soul and how tolerant her daughter “A” had been. I told her I wasn’t but still listened to her too much.
Out of the whole mess it was “A” I felt sorry for with her for a mother.
I can’t believe I put up with him. Unbelievable.
The story about “A”s mother sounds horrible, but I think it’s not that unusual. I’ve recently met a woman, a business contact I barely knew, who told me a similar story.
Decades ago, when she was in her early twenties, she moved to a faraway country with her then-boyfriend who happened to be a few decades older. Her mother, as she said, insisted upon moving abroad together with her. She said “I always had to keep my mother away from my boyfriend, because she was so charming and attractive and flirty, and I was afraid she would take him away from me…”
I have no clue why she told me all this (a male coworker of hers in a senior position was also present, by the way). I think it was the same kind of “oversharing” I’ve done in the past, too.
To me, her story about her ex and her mother sounded like a horrible, sorry mess, but apparently she didn’t see it that way. I tried to keep a neutral face, because it was business date. But it made me remember a lot of toxic crap from my own past (including my own denial).
We are not alone.
My boss’s son is the same. He’s been engaged “for the last waltz” as my mum says. Meaning years. Yet he drips feeds to his harem that he’s always on The verge of breaking up. He’s been saying this for years, yet they’re still together. He also complains that The gf isn’t giving him any sex in forever. So why do these women still follow him like a pack of sheep? Also he claims he has some sort if social anxiety. I don’t believe him at all. He is the mist outgoing person at work. You can’t get this guy to shut up. And now one of his harem is “helping him” with this problem. Even though she’s not even a trained therapist. I dint know what makes her an expert. She hasn’t picked
up a psych book, let alone studied it. More like she’s helping him wank!
Before the lawyer broke up with me, he sought advice from his stable full o’bitches. The queen “b” said it was ok to break up with me by e-mail since “technically” we hadn’t slept together. Apparently she was well versed in his technique…
Bravo, Well said, narcissistic harem, describes the ex perfectly in every fashion especially social networks. The ex- prides himself of being friends with all his former wifes, and girl friends, however that won’t be the case with me! I’m sooooo joyful to have found your site, so enthusiastic I bought the book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Look forward to future articles, as well as future without Mr. Unavailable! I just want to be healthy enough not to attract another Mr. U. working on that !!!!
Sharon… U will LOVE the book… Its like my bible :).. When I am having a bad day or thinking maybe it was something about me all I have to do is read a few pages and whew ….those feeling are gone … Nat says it like it is/was…. and with humor and honesty… And I come here for my online therapy 🙂 and some laughs at times….
I too like many of the readers here cannot believe your uncanny timing. I went totally NC last week by changing my email and phone number, but it had been a couple weeks before that since I had talked to him. This being the third time in almost 3 years that we’ve broken up will definitley be the last. I think the last weekend that I was with him, which was the weekend after valentines day, was just so horrible that it changed my mind about him forever. Im not saying that I dont still have bad days, i certainly do. However when i think back to that weekend, seeing him for the first time after his 3 week solo backpacking trip, and him telling me that he doesnt think that he is able to have a monogamous relationship with me, that he has trust issues with me (?), and I need to make a decision as to whether or not I could handle him F*cking other women and still being with me..then sitting there and watching me cry, and not comforting me at all…just telling me that “i have some tough desicions to make, but what ever I decided, it was very important to him that i remained part of his life and remained his friend because he loves me very much”. I went through three years of bullshit, future faking, on and off times of together and not, telling me that if i could be less needy it would be better. just every AC/EUM move you have ever read here, or anywhere else. I had thoughts before of the harem. but until I read this, it didnt really click. I had the friends that he let me meet tell me how wonderful he was, how he used to be able to pick up any woman he wanted, but now he was just a great guy who stayed home lots. He texted a female this past new years eve while we were out together, right in front of me, and only after asking did he admit he had sex with her, “but it was more of a stay in touch thing now”. he had alot of those. And when we broke up three days later he was meeting up for coffee with one woman, and going out for drinks and dinner with another. He always kept me on the outside tho, never met any of these women, didnt hear about them when we were together, but as soon as we broke up, there they were. and he liked to make sure that he indirectly told me what he was doing in texts. “im going out for drinks and dinner with a friend”. I learned when we were together that if he used the word “friend” it meant female. Anyways…ive had a few…
I can relate to this so much everything you say I was with a bloke for 2/half years until it start failing last year around xmas I could never be there for him as much and it got to xmas and he met someone else he never slept with her but they kissed and he had her over a few times I was devestated he came clean about it in an arguement we had after xmas and I was so mad but he showed no remorse or care I went straight to his house to try sort things out he did’nt take it seriously we agreed to have another chance as we both admitted our failures and where we went wrong so i continued thinking he would cut contact with this girl but I was wrong it got to the point where I was so desperate to find out the truth I had to start reading his texts when he was asleep or in the shower there was nothing in texts that insinuated they were more then friends but the one text that got me was what he said to his mate it hurt me so much I had to admit I’d been reading through his texts because it hit me so hard he wasn’t angry but a month or so after when he came home from work he sat down and said I don’t want this anymore I need time to myself he was really crying and I could tell he was just emotionally confused and not sure of what he wanted anymore anyhow a week after we split I came up to his to pick some of my things I left there up and she was round they looked like they had been having fun I just quickly got my things and left before I did something I regretted. a month after we split he said lets meet up I agreed we went out to a club had a really good night it felt normal we kissed we ended up sleeping together it didnt feel wrong at the time. this week hes gone away on holiday with this girl and her friend and boyfriend I know when he gets back hes going to be in a relationship with her thats the part thats going to kill me but also give me the willpower to cut all ties and move on.
At first glance, I thought this post didn’t really apply to me. But since I’ve started actively distancing myself from my ex and working on me, things are starting to come into focus (early days still!). I’m beginning to remember things that I had conveniently pushed aside. Most of my ex’s friends were women, which I don’t think is necessarily a red flag. But most of these women were exes. I’m not sure if I would call it a harem, but he definitely had his “former lover” supporters. When I first started dating my ex, he was actually living with his most recent ex (and a few other people). In fact, about a month into our relationship, he told me that his ex wasn’t comfortable with me coming over to the house, and that we couldn’t hang out there until she moved a few months down the line. We still ended up hanging out at his place, but that conversation\situation strikes me as little odd in hindsight.
I was pretty surprised at the HUGE number of exes my fiance had. It seemed like everywhere we went he would mention, oh, by the way I dated her…and her…and her. Most of these relationships never lasted more than 3 or 4 months. By far, ours was the longest relationship he had ever been in (which was just over a year) Once I found out that he had been lying to me about stuff, I got a little suspicious\jealous of his relationships with all of his exes and other “girl” friends. Up until recently, I was really beating myself up about that. Why were you so paranoid, Laurie? You drove him away, it’s all your fault, etc. But now I’m seeing that of course I was paranoid. He lied to me, and trust was broken. My mistake was not in being suspicious, but in continuing in a relationship where I couldn’t trust my partner not to lie to me and not fly off the handle in a rage when he was angry. I’m certainly not saying that if someone lies the jig is automatically up and the relationship is over; but it takes two mature, healthy individuals to work toward rebuilding trust and handling anger\disappointment in a healthy way. NEITHER of us fit that description at the time.
It just hit me over the head that I’ve been taking responsibility for things I shouldn’t (his anger, trying to *make* him want to work at the relationship, the relationship ending being all my fault) and NOT taking responsibility for what I should (being a mature adult and walking…
M., I know what you mean. First you have to determine what you are getting out of it, then address that issue, e.g. insecurity. For me, I used to tell stories, not gossip, but what happened to me. I guess I was making myself look interesting? So, I stopped contacting the people I felt the need to tell stories to, and voila, I had less need to be around the back up list.
Hei P.
Thanks for your answer.
I don’t think I’m trying to make myself look more interesting necessarily, I think it’s more about getting the validation that I am lovable by having people tell me how someone else really shouldn’t have behaved that way towards me and how I am worth being treated so much better than what I got. So yes, I think I see what the issue is. So now on to breaking the loop… 😉
Tanks again for the food for thought!
How can the exes support them? Don’t the ACs pull the same BS on them too? why would anyone want to even be friends with them? I don’t get it. I wish I had a harem of men whenever I had a breakup with someone.
my boyfriend of 8 months just posted a photo he took of himself on his facebook and now the women are all commenting what a great picture it is. it is a good picture…but i wonder why he would post a self -taken photo. he said he just wanted to update his profile picture…which could be true. i think he enjoys the ego strokes. not sure why he would need them though. he is a good boyfriend. not a creep or jerk in any way. this just struck me as odd and i told him i liked the picture but i didn’t like all the comments from his “female fan club”. i don’t want to seem jealous because he does not give me a reason to be. it just struck me weird. what’s wrong with me.
MC,
If he hasn’t given you a reason not to trust him, then you’re right—you need to look within yourself to discover where this distrust and jealousy is coming from. Is it insecurity? Are you projecting a past relationship onto this one? If he lied to you or betrayed your trust in the past, then I can understand that level of suspicion. But I wouldn’t be sure if that would be a healthy relationship to continue.
Personally, when I realized that my ex had lied and wasn’t really doing much to try to rebuild that trust; I should have walked away. Actually, I should have walked when I realized we weren’t compatible, but that’s another story….Healthy relationships cannot exist without trust. Is there a close friend you can talk to about why you are finding it difficult to trust your bf? Paranoia will destroy relationships lightning-fast.
Everything seems to be really good. We get along great. We are open in our communication. I do trust him. I just don’t understand why he would want the ego strokes, which I’m sure he knew he would get from women. He claimed he just wanted to update his profile picture, but left the new picture on his timeline….whatever. I’m not going to stress about it anymore. Everything is good and I want it to stay that way.
MC,
I think you will sabotage things if you continue down this path of unwarranted jealousy.
he posted a new photo. It’s no big deal!
Exactly! Thank you!
imho – *not* trying to do NML’s job here – nothing is wrong with you.
it is weird that he posted a new photo probably knowing that he’d get cheers from his online fan club. it is (unflattering) information about him and his ego – the key here is that its unflattering to HIM, not YOU. but if he’s otherwise a great guy, it is probably truly no big deal.
so, again imho, PLEASE don’t doubt yourself. and don’t freak over it, but don’t invalidate how you feel either. that’s the major problem with every single BR reader and the reason why we’re all here – we doubt ourselves instead of calmly, and with due consideration, and in full possession of our own self-respect going with our gut reactions. we’re not crazy. we just overreact and could use to love ourselves more.
and here’s what i really don’t get, i guess … i have male friends who are good guys and yet get occasional ego strokes from FB female fan clubs … what the heck is wrong with the fan club members?! they’re so lame and so clearly don’t have any self-respect clamoring in public after some guy (who is with/married to someone else). don’t they see how their comments can be perceived? don’t they want better for themselves?
we all here want better for ourselves. i vote we stick to that and set an example for the female population … not the other way around.
MC,
I just want to clarify. I don’t think anything is wrong with you or you are actively destroying your relationship, or that you shouldn’t be alert to any potential red flags. Clearly, I have no business and absolutely no intention of telling anyone how to have a healthy relationship. I’m still learning myself. I can only attest to what HASN’T worked for me. You can take it all with a grain of salt : )
Laurie, I appreciate you input. I understand we are all responsible for our behavior, our thoughts, our actions, our decisions. Thank you for your help.
I value your opinion. I don’t understand the FB female fan club attitude either…seems disrespectful to me. It was really nothing more than Nice pic, etc. Nothing out of the ordinary and nothing to cause concern. I just didn’t like it and that is my problem. He is recently divorced and I understand that his self esteem has taken a hit. He is rational about it and seems to be dealing with it intelligently. I am aware of the pitfalls and had this discussion with him when I agreed to date him. He knows my position on being a buffer while he is in transition and understands that I have no interest in it.
I left it at “wow. your fan club likes your new picture” and that will be that. I’m not going to over react or go off the deep end. It will be what it will be. I have to continue going by his words and actions and making sure they match and that we are compatible. So far so good.
just make sure you confirm to yourself that the picture change thing is (hopefully) the only reason why you’re here. Very well wishes to you though. But just saying.
Thank you! Thank you! For posting on this topic! I haven’t been posting on BR lately, but I continue visit daily for reaffirmation on cutting off my non-existent relationship with the EUM, that i refer to as “Lying Hell.”
The harem is integral in feeding the EUM and, pretty much anyone who lacks self esteem and emotional intelligence. People that seek and have the constant need for validation keep “hangers on” to inflate their ego. In many of these instances, this individual is extremely critical, mean/rude, disrespectful and engages in transfererance and projection to the very people who are “building them up.”
When I first began my “relationship” with “Lying Hell” I quickly realized that he was “seeing” at least 4 other women, and he was always IM-ing, FB-ing, and keeping lines of communication open with his ex, and always on the prowl to add new women to the harem. Each woman had to provide him with something that he found useful and fulfilled his own needs. I remember getting jealous of his relationship with one woman because it appeared that he did more fun activities with her…Admittedly, I had a subconscious competition with the other harem members , and would do things that I thought would position me in a better light, give me boost on his priority/favorite list, and essentially nix other girls. Isn’t this completely insane!?! I know! This never works, because if you’re playing this game, and put yourself in the harem, you are never and will never be considered for anything other than a supportive role, booty call, FWB. You will NEVER get the oh-so-coveted title “GIRLFRIEND.” As I learned on BR, many EUMs keep harems when they are going through a selfish phase, a recent break-up, getting their life together, or whatever situation is causing them to disconnect emotionally . Usually, during this time, HE/SHE is not looking for a significant other, but, rather short-term, casual relationships to build their confidence to date again, or have someone to help through their difficult time. During this time, the harem is critical to rebuilding and making one feel good about themself, as opposed to doing some real, self-work.
“The ex is a fallback.” In my case with “Lying Hell,” as time went on, and through my own detective work I found out he will always be a womanizer/user and keep multiple women around in his…
At first I didn’t really get this post – but over the past 24 hours it has really hit home.
Most recent involvement with a guy who I have now been NC with for 3 months – one of the first things he said that stood out to me was “most of my friends are female…I just enjoy hanging out with girls more, I guess”, plus later on: “I’ve slept with most of my friends…” like it was normal. And he actually made me think it was due to some weird insecurity of mine that I would not be comfortable sleeping with all of my male friends. That it might actually be normal, once you were totally comfortable with yourself, to be able to just casually sleep with your friends. Wow…
He also made some quip about when a particular “group” of his female friends found out he was sleeping with all of them, they justified it to themselves by saying he must be gay. He chuckled to himself (in front of me) about that one. And still I held onto the illusion that I was some sort of exception, some special confidante.
My ex-boyfriend, who I can now see is a massive EUM (although he honestly doesn’t realise this…he’s still looking for his “perfect” princess to marry), kept on messaging me trying to tell me about all the women he was treating like shit, laughing to me about it. I told him I believed you tend to attract people who are at a similar level of emotional development as you (this was, ironically, months before I found BR and joined up the dots about my own history). He surprisingly didn’t get it. Little did I know I was now a potential harem member. I told him I noticed all of our conversations went in a similar direction – him always asking completely inconsequential questions about my life that he had no interest in hearing the answers to, so he could inform me about his life (presumably this is what all harem members have as their purpose), and how much better it was than mine (implicitly), therefore 1-upping me constantly. He denied this flatly, and “wished me the best in my life” (as he has dramatically done many a time). Now he has set up another (latest of many – I blocked the last one before he added me) facebook accounts, added all of our mutual friends, and now me. I ignored and blocked. This post gave me the strength and motivation to do so. I’ve realised now that the only reason he wants to keep in contact is to have me as part of his harem. Screw that shit!
I think Natalie is definately on to something with this part of her blog about people (men AND women) who keep harems soley for the sake of just having their victims around specifically for their ego boosting purposes.
So many women (and men…) fall into this trap of believing that the reason said EUM/EUW keeps coming back to them is because they “miss them” or ” they can’t resist me” or “I must be something special to him if he/she keeps running back to me”. WRONG!
They keep returning in our lives back because…well, for one…we let them since we leave the door open…. And two, they do so when they’ve filtered through all their other options within the harem and we just so happen to be the lucky one he/she comes back to when they think it’s safe and convenient to do so.
They had no intention of making you anything more than just another cushy option to have in their back pocket. The key to all this is once we DO catch on to the BS, we should diagnose it for what it really is and don’t make any stupid excuses or false illusions about what this person is trying to do and run for the hills!!!
Ok. So I just got a fb message (what a way to begin; I feel like a complete teenager) from a guy I briefly dated a while ago (after my first breakup with the ex–wow, that’s embarrassing) before he *officially* hooked up with another girl. He never said we were dating, but he was taking me out to romantic locales, asking me intimate details about my life, and paying for me the entire time. After three weeks of constantly being in contact with me, all of a sudden he stopped calling. It just so happened to coincide with him meeting another girl, and them making their relationship official a couple weeks later. Obviously, this was for the best since I was recently out of a relationship and completely and utterly emotionally unavailable. God ,what a long into….
Anyway, he sent me a little message today asking me how I’ve been, about my life, etc. He is still with this other girl, BTW. Am I overreacting to think WTF? We were never bf/gf so it’s not like I ever felt like he *owed* me anything—including an explanation—but I feel it’s a bit inappropriate for him to be contacting me. Is this a dial-a-harem-situation, or am I overreacting to simple, friendly contact?
Hey Laurie,
In keeping with your response to MC above, I am certainly no expert and I don’t do FB so talk about a grain of salt. After being an OW for 2 years, a classic FBG, and after reading this post by Natalie and the comments regarding harems, I’d proceed with caution. If the guy is in an official relationship, I’d be wary of why he needs to know about your life. Why is he interested in your life? You may have answered your own question: “…but I feel it’s a bit inappropriate for him to be contacting me”. I’m practicing here, but maybe if you feel it’s inappropriate, it is? I’m not real good at listening to myself yet. Thus, you comment struck me with how my gut says X and I ignore it. I’m thinking your gut is right and you may be treading in OW and/or dail-a-harem territory. Sounds to me like he’s checking out his options. Thinking about it from the perspective of the official gf, I don’t think I’d want my significant other FBing other women….this is coming from a former OW who dealt with a MM wondering about my life after we broke it off. I’m certain his wife would not be happy about our communications. I don’t think you are overreacting. Listen to you. Imagine how you’d feel if you were the gf.
He, he, he, I may be overreacting to your post!
Hi Laurie,
I don’t think that noticing that his behaviour is inappropriate needs to have a lot of drama behind it. You aren’t overreacting, you’re just noticing that it’s not on for a guy who wined and dined you, then decided to suddenly drop his courtship, to now want you to still share intimate details etc.
It would be one thing if the two of you had been nothing more than friendly beforehand, then it would be a bit greyer, but it would still not be cool if he contacted you at all intimately or flirtatiously while with someone else.
There are a couple of guys from undergrad who facebook me every now and then with a “Hey beautiful.” Or some comment like that. Both these dudes are with long-term girlfriends (wives, in fact, I believe). I think they know they have no chance with me, never did, so they assume the flirtations are harmless. I just think if I were the wife of either of these guys, I wouldn’t want to know that they’re facebooking a woman to joke that they’re maintaining a mild crush.
I guess one of the best outcomes of being BR-schooled is not getting too worked up anymore when I encounter shady behaviour. It’s obviously just SO common. But not getting worked up means it’s easier to ignore, dismiss, flush.
Yeah, as children many of us were taught it was the “polite” thing to interact with almost anyone who wanted to interact with us. It’s as if we “owed” anyone simply because they were “trying to be friendly”. That’s how we got ourselves into a mess so frequently. Somebody needed to tell us the other party’s behavior was appropriate before we were able to “let go” at all.
But that was the past. Now it’s okay for us to say “no” without performing any deep analysis. Really, it is (I’m still struggling with it myself). Even if it looks as if an ex is just “being friendly”, we don’t owe him anything.
As (I believe) Grace has said elsewhere – sometimes silence is our most powerful weapon. And by the way, if he was really just “being friendly” (which I don’t believe), silence won’t hurt him much either. He’d just forget about the whole thing.
sorry, what I really wanted to say was:
…Somebody needed to tell us the other party’s behavior was INappropriate before we were able to “let go” at all. …
Thanks for the responses, everyone! When I talk about overreacting, it’s not like I’m bitting my nails, worried and anxious, the whole bit. I guess I should have referred to it as judging the situation correctly. After years of unhealthy behavior, I guess I’m just trying to find out what is and what isn’t appropriate –not to “judge” people per se, but to make sure that I don’t involve myself in unhealthy relationships and that I don’t practice unhealthy behaviors. At the end of the day, the fb message isn’t a big deal, but I just saw it as a potential learning opportunity. And I learned a lot from ya’lls comments.
I think what I’ve taken away from this, is that I don’t feel comfortable with guys that I dated to just pop into my life after ignoring me (and especially when they are with someone else) Similarly, I am not going to pop into an exes life whenever I want to *ahem* (13 days NC today). I think maybe he was just looking for a friend, but I’m not interested in that kind of demotion. Even if we did just date a little while, I don’t think I would feel good about myself: oh, yeah we dated until “option b” came along and you liked her better, so now I’ll take the demotion of friendship. I don’t really like that.
Also, reading all the comments about being the OW has really made me stop and think. Here I am so desperate to get married again, seemingly to any guy with a functioning d*ck who will buy me flowers all the time (seriously, what the hell), and then BAM! I read a story on here about these largely unsuspecting women whose husbands are cheating on them AND their mistresses. Who knew: there are worse things then being single. I’m just a slow-learner!
Hit the nail on the head.
I think it is exactly that – I have a total preoccupation with being friendly. When frankly, why should I, when someone is treating me like shit?
I think the trick is, to find the neutral balance between friendliness and hostility.
Why why whywhywhywhy WHY couldn’t I have found this site fourteen months ago? I am long out of the situation and well into healing at this point, and this website has been enormously helpful in that process (THANK YOU, NATALIE!). But gawd, I could have spared myself SO much grief if I’d had your calm, clear perspective back when I felt like I was going crazy, trying to figure out why being with this “great” guy felt so frickin’ awful.
Whilst reading this post the name of a long-standing friend popped into my mind and a hovering feeling of me being a harem member got painfully clear.
Though we were never sexually involved I regarded him as friend whom I trusted. On the surface he seemed to be reflective concerning his own past, behaviour. Him being a fantastic talker with a velvety voice as well as a good listener he would ask questions that gave food for thought.
Over the years I could observe that he never committed to a woman, he assigned two nights a week to them and never moving in or even leaving a toothbrush at their place. So each new woman did her best to change him and when tired out changed into a harem member.
One day he was presented tiny baby shoes and the news of gf being pregnant in her fifth months. The riddle got never solved as to how you can overlook some telling signs for so long. It also caused a ripple of outrage in the harem as a few had to undergo the painful experience of having an abortion as he strictly didn’t want that responsibility. Cornered by reality he astonishingly did the decent thing all the other women had craved for. He married, settled down, even left town for her, left all his friends behind, build a house and it happened that while in holiday another “accident” occurred and their second son was on his way.
It seemed that the leopard had changed his spots and at least one got lucky but I listened to many bitter feelings vented by his various exes and it must have given them a lot of pain looking at pics thinking “These could’ve been my kids.”
But did he really change? He kept visiting his town twice or trice each year, staying in lively contact with all his friends and having one-on-one meetings with all exes, still having his birthday party here. So when he gave notice of an imminent visit the harem groomed and got excited, he rode into town like a well awaited rock star.
Over time I observed that he structured his harem into rings. There was the inner circle, a middle and an outer one and these positions were fighted over. It is an arrangement that pretty much caters to women’s cutthroat competitive nature.
It always confused me, but this post dispersed all doubts and questions and consequently there will be another FLUSH!
arlena
Oof. I’ve witnessed similar with babies, abortions, more babies. None of it’s a secret to the women involved. And the guy isn’t even that hot (not to me anyway)!
And you’re right, just cos they get married it doesn’t mean they change. Even if he doesn’t have sex, he can still be up for the ego strokes, the FB-ing, the texting, the msging. DON’T DO IT TO YOURSELVES!
Quite a few ladies seem to use a pregnancy in order to “trap” a toxic guy. One person is for sure going to be “trapped” in this situation: The child.
To me, quite frankly, this is child abuse. Of course, it doesn’t have to be, if the mother comes to her senses on time, learns to take care of her own needs and of her kid’s needs as well, and flushes the guy!
It must be a nightmare for any child to grow up with an EU/AC father who maintains a harem and a mother who twists herself into a pretzel trying to stay his “number 1”, while quite likely both are neglecting the child’s needs in the meantime.
I love this post and Natalie’s information. Yes the Facebook harem of female ‘friends’ that like the narcissist’s photo posts or infact like anything and everything. Then of course there is the behind the scenes ‘ friendly messages’ that just open the door enough for flirty dialogue. Never ends. Doesn’t seem to matter that he has a girlfrriend and sometimes even they are attached. I guess when your bf constantly encourages it under the ‘ I’m just a nice guy ‘ what can you do. the fact that as the girlfriend you often feel unimportant and disrespected, I think that just adds to the ego boost for them.
Do they care at all about anyone’s feelings but their own ? Every female interaction to them is another opportunity and it appears the only requirement is a pulse and it’s game on. This is like being an extra in a movie about them, that you are now watching from the cinema seat.
Well, all I have to say about avoiding guys (who are definately narcissistic) who have harems is that you have to make it your point of duty to be the ONLY one, not the Number # 1 on his list…because as long as these men have options, you’re just essentially an option too. Don’t ever stay in a relationship where you are constantly trying win over a guy that can’t be won over.
Keep the faith, ladies.
Great post!
Is this a harem? There was this guy who I asked out and he said no (absolutely no problem with me), then suddenly he starts sending me emails every day on a group email list of about 20 women and every single one of them are women that we both know. It seems like a harem to me of some sort. I feel kind of gross about it, like I am not good enough to date, but good enough to get a random harem email.
In another harem situation, I was once involved in an emotionally abusive relationship with someone who is very popular. I find it really hard, because there are quite a few women who are my friends too, who hang around him and think he’s amazing and every time I see them they tell me how amazing he is and it makes me question whether or not he was abusive to me. When I tell them he isn’t that great, they stick up for him and tell me I am misinterpreting things and it’s all in my head and the things he said and did were justified. It make me feel so bad about myself.
Lavender
Just don’t talk about him anymore. You don’t need to convince them of anything. If they’ve got nothing else to talk about – maybe it’s time to expand your horizons.
A number of people (though to be fair not his ex or even his mother) thought that the abusive ex was great. They weren’t the ones he was pushing down the stairs and belittling at every opportunity. And when there was no opportunity he would make one up.
These women have NO CLUE. That’s why he keeps them in his harem. They’re going to follow the party line.
Someone in another comment was asking how come exes and others stick around in the harem when they only get crumbs. In my experience with my harem chair, the current women in the harem are, as Grace says, people who don’t have a clue – who haven’t got quite close enough to him to be on the receiving end of his full AC treatment – or haven’t seen the light yet. In fact alot of the women who he had relationships with in the past and did feel the full force no longer speak to him (NC yay!) or are or were actively vengeful.
Wondering if anyone has experienced stalking from a previous EUM.
I have had NC for 9 months and still see EUM and his nephew drive by few times a week, sometimes waiting and watching down the street.
He has not tried to contact me. Just this weird driving around.
Don’t have proof so can’t go to the police. Once in awhile I suspect they move things around on my property to let me know they are around and have possibly damaged my mailbox and fence.
If someone else has experienced something similar, how did you make it stop.
Wish Natalie had a blog about this topic.
Sue,
You are describing criminal behaviour, not a subject for a blog.
Bad enough that he should be putting you under surveillance but that he should enter onto your property??? I would have at the very least, a quiet conversation with your local police to alert them to the situation and ask for their advice about protective measures.
Thanks. Scared, but will try.
Hi Sue
I had a similar problem with a person once, not the AC who I talk about a lot.
I didn’t want to get him into trouble but I was terrified.I gave him enough time to stop but he wouldn’t.I called the police and they gave him an unofficial talking to.He did stop after that.The police also told me there is no law against someone following you.If he is hanging around your home that is probably stalking.
Yes I was stalked by an EUM who broke up with me after two months of dating. I refused to be his friend afterwards and he didnt like it. The stalking went on for about 10 months, I totally avoided him, no communication or anything. He went out of way to get a rise out of me, sick and not only that but he had stalked at least one other girl at the same time. Keep detailed notes of times, activities and anything else that may be going on even if you just suspect it. You cant make it stop, you will have to call the police and you should not contact him at all in any way shape or form as it will make you look like you provoked it.
Thanks sm! Did he just give up? How did you find out he was stalking someone else?
I’ve been going through a bit of a rough patch lately, mostly because of my inability to just let it go.
Basically the guy I was seeing kind of long distance is moving even further away because he hated his current job and he got an offer from his ex and her husband to work for them and live with them temporarily. Well even if thts the truth, it’s bizarre and weird as hell. What a situation to put yourself in, I don’t care how much I hate my job…I wouldn’t live with an ex and their spouse. Whatever….
He was never a jerk, but he is such a flirt online…mostly harmless but still, it’s like he has all these girls for friends and flirts with many and posts a lot to get attention it seems. It’s hurtful to see because I’m the only one on his page where there are pictures of both of us. He is a flirt, but it’s weird how he flatters so many random girls online. It hurts to see. It also hurts that he moved to be in such an awkward situation. I know it’s not about me…but somehow I still feel rejected.
Hard to just move on, I’m Doing it slowly…but I don’t know how wrap myself around the situation.
Any advice?
Gina
Finish it and stop contact. Long distance is the first refuge of the emotionally unavailable. You think they don’t like it? THEY LOVE IT! In your mind you may be anticipating the day when you can be together properly. They don’t want that, whatever they say.
I know plenty of men and women who have moved continents, got new jobs, learned new languages to be with someone. It’s not exactly impossible. If they’re not doing it, it’s because they don’t want to.
I know he doesn’t want to, he has his own bad experiences with it. I just tend to take it personally even though deep down it probably has nothing to do with me. It just hurts when I see that he constantly talks to others on Facebook, for instance, because it’s constant flirtation for what seems to be attention. And the fact that he is moving into that situation also stings, makes me feel like I wasn’t good enough in a way. It sucks.
I have moments where I’m moving and then I get worried he’s going there to be with her and even have an affair of some sort since she’s the “one who got away.” I start feeling insecure then and feel as if I was rejected.
Gina, I have wasted a lifetime on waiting to see if various assorted men would change and make me exception to their rules of behaviour. It didn`t happen, not once. Not the man who prefered drinking to me, porn to me, flirting or cheating. Feeling not good enough all those years has been a big mistake. Proof? An ex boyfriend from 30 years ago!! has found me on my school friends reunited thingy website ….and wanted to get re-aquainted and guess what, he is still a flirt and a cheater and proud of it- I got a re-cap of his life in an email. I flushed his pathetic arse by blocking with no explanation. Your guy is pathetic too. Leave him to his online tricks. His EUMness has got nothing to do with you.
It’s ridiculous though, him telling me he wishes I was there and shit…Like what difference does it make? He doesn’t do long distance now or back when he was with his ex that he now lives with with their spouse. Which he also told me that she imagines more time they spent to together than actually occurred…like whatt an effed up situation…I wonder how someone could even make a choice like that, just pure rejection I feel.
Gina, I agree that the situation is effed up. He created it because HE IS effed up and that is also a reason why he is telling you all this stuff about wishing that you were with him. He doesn`t care what he is saying or doing and what impact it is having on anybody. He is action not matching words. If he was wishing you were with him he wouldn`t be moving away. Or flirting with other women online. I couldn`t let my last guy go and spent a year in absolute hell, until I did proper NC. I promise you it`s the only way to go. Natalie really does know what she is talking about.
Gina, you know in your heart this is a red red, carmine red situation. He is basically doing what suits him,when it does. You are along for the ride.
You are there because you shut the door behind yourself. You did and are doing it. Flush.
It is dodgy, shady, not to be tolerated. View the situation from above. It’s wrong that he has the flirting online,the array of contacts but he lives in his own head…that’s a head that needs validation from various flirty sources! Do you want to be with a man who gets validation from this superficial source. That shines light on you.
Think more of yourself. I have been there, listened to the crap(I was main squeeze), cannot describe to you how duplicit he was online, whilst maintaining our’serious’ relationship. He thought it was his entitlement. It defined him as a man,rubbish, sickness,freaky shit.
They are about themselves, Sushi is right. They live in the moment and you are side order, tasty but easy to leave/include.
Sushi and Lynda…
You’re both right, there’s no argument there..that is why I’m on this blog in the first place. I just need answers sometimes. It’s painful because I want to be missed and not forgotten, but yet I can’t stay in this place either. Maybe he misses me and it’s true…but why keep telling me so when he chose to be in a situation where he wanted the easy way it out it seems. His decisions are independent of mine surely, but I don’t want to be forgotten at the same time. I’m torn between what you both say and my own thoughts. He left and I don’t want to be forgotten, yet he made such a silly decision and he lost me…I just don’t know how to break it off when he didn’t do anything so severe to me in the first place. It’s like if I stop contact, I fear he will just forget me like I was nothing to him.
Gina
Please try to take on board what I am about to say to you, and bear in mind that I know what I’m talking about. I obsessed about an ex for three years and am just coming out of a three month fantasy obsession with someone I haven’t even been on one date with:
STOP!
Do what needs to be done – get therapy, see the doctor if it’s that bad, shut down your FB account or however it is you stalk this man, take a cookery course in a foreign country, spend a week away with family, sign up for daily personal training at your local gym, whatever it takes to break this.
You have nothing with this man except the thoughts that are going around in your head and unless you get on top of it, you’re going to go round the bend. The answer does not lie in following these thoughts in circles and analysing to death and beyond what he says, thinks and does, and the who, what or where of it.
Stop all contact with him. I’ve re-instigated contact with the crush after a three-week silence because a) he’s done nothing wrong and b) it’s enough time for me to get my head back to normal because we were never more than just friendly. In your case, a) most clearly does not apply and three weeks won’t hit the spot. The NC has to be permanent. This man is toxic to you.
I promise you, that if you stop this and do something more than stare at the ceiling thinking up new ways to torture yourself, before the summer is over you will feel a hundred times better. You might even be ready for a new beau before Christmas.
Carry on with the crazy, and you will be EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE NOW. Or feeling even worse.
PS he IS a jerk and online flirting is NOT HARMLESS.
Yes, he’s a lying two-faced idiot so don’t expect him to help you. Help yourself.
Gina, may I recommend a book called Stop Obsessing by Foa. According to my psychopathology professor, it is one of the best books out there for individuals struggling with mild OCD. I’m not suggesting that you have this disorder! But I purchased the book and found that it has some very effective and practical helps to put a stop to obsessive\unhelpful thinking. Just a thought…
You’re right, I can only help myself. I actually saw a therapist last week about this and my over thinking issue. My life can be stressful at times because of university and work, and it seems he is what I mostly stress about…it’s an endless cycle. I’m sure the therapy will help, just needs time. I’m not sitting here waiting for the day he decides to “come back” so to speak…it’s more like “what the hell do you want from me when you text me with these sweet things that you’re doing nothing about.” It’s frustrating and cutting contact seems to be the only way to go. Whether he’s being genuine or not, the situation remains the same.
So I’ll have to start refocusing my life back to me. The fact that I have a therapist is all I have that’s keeping me sane right now. Thanks for your advice.
Yes, I new someone that moved countries.
Fantasy relationships almost always have four elements:
1. Crumb communication
2. An excuse that controls and moderates the flow of contact
3. Distance in space or in time
4. FAILURE OF THE TOUCH TEST – can’t physically touch them on 3 different days of the week over a consistent period of time.
Oh dear.
One of the things I experienced during my non-break up from my non-relationship (ugh! just typing the words non- irritates me because it highlights that it was all hot air and crumbs) I had bouts of I Can’t Believe They’re An Assclown Syndrome where I go off and play Diagnosis Assclown and wonder if I got my ‘diagnostics’ wrong.
It is pretty obvious this person is a hanger on at minimum and a user at worst. How do I know? Even when their ex partner is long finished, he’s *STILL* creaming off the benefits. So stay away! Go NC. Wondering why an assclown is still an assclown is like trying to rationalise the irrational or find out what the last four digits of the number pi is. You’ll never get there because there is no answer.
“He was never a jerk, but he is such a flirt online…mostly harmless but still, it’s like he has all these girls for friends and flirts with many and posts a lot to get attention it seems.”
Gina, I want to cosign what Grace said – this guy IS a jerk. My ex-AC was a flirt on Fbook and it turned out he was doing a hell of a lot more than flirting on my watch. This is not to say that this guy is cheating, but a grown man with a Facebook Flirt Harem is no good. If someone’s in a relationship and feels the need to be collecting attention elsewhere it’s a full stop. I say leave him in the dust and don’t look back! You’re awesome and you deserve so much better.
Omg… This post breaks down my relationship ( ended as I slowly put it together in part due to Natalies astute advice on this blog! U saved what’s left of my mind & heart !) I also truly believe. That we CAN heal & move on to better relationships & lives!
Gina I really feel for you. Some great advice from so many smart & strong girls. My ex 38 year old AC needed to work at keeping and recruiting for his harem. They were certainly not throwing themselves at him … There is a loyal following of desperate housewives, the women with shit marriages, the grateful types & the single ‘ I don’t care who I screw over’ girls They are all in turn getting an ego stroke from him. There is usually a front runner ( The one who was getting the most amount of attention at any given time ) The front runner can change depending if a new recruit comes a long and he drops them like a hot cake for the new recruit. Or the front runner finally gives up because they realise he is not going to dump his girlfriend ‘me’ . The harem bitches usually have a list of things they need ‘help’ with to justify the stream of texts & messages at all times of the day & night. Decent emotionally available men don’t need the ego stroke enough to hurt their partner for it. Gina there is this saying ‘ a boy makes his girl jealous of other women and a gentleman makes other women jealous of his girl ‘. Insert AC for boy … Lol
That’s a funny saying, probably better to look at it that way instead of the way I have been. I am soo ready to move on.
Big Eyes,
Your post is so incredibly accurate, could we have possibly dated the same guy? I couldn’t have said it better. You rock.
SG it’s highly likely he has made a career of being an Ass Clown. Interestingly there are no exes in his harem. The screwing they got was the equivalent of being pushed by your best friend into on coming traffic, so the offer of a demotion was out of the question for them. Gina, Nat’s advice is so sound and got me through the confusion of planet Ass Clown. You don’t really need to worry too much about Mr AC once you are out, they are quite capable of steering their own ship into an iceberg !
I am so glad I have found this website and Natalie’s many posts that describe my ex to a T. He is an ex from my early twenties-10 years ago and we were engaged. Since we’ve both married and had kids and every once in awhile he tries to “reconnect” with me. I always felt it was a sort of ego stroking “conquering” jester- like I can have her back anytime I want! This latest reconnection- he claims he’s getting divorced, they don’t have sex, she’s cheating, and so on. I’ve really struggled with this guy through the years- the one that will never go away so he keeps haunting me! I think I am finally defining his motives and what he is so that I can let go once and for all! Thank you Natalie.
Hi Lacey
I had a similar situation only I am older then you and our history went back longer. What I really loved, intentional or not was your statement ‘the one that will not go away’ vs. “The one that got away!! “I love it. Yes, ours are not the ones that got away, they were the ones that would not GO away. The Things that wouldn’t leave!!
WOW. I recently broke up with my covert narcissistic bf (FOR GOOD) and though I’ve come across several websites that describe his personality disorder (or one of them I should say), this website is awesome. Today, I found myself asking that very same question. How come I (the nice girl who truly had feelings for him and no manipulative and damaging agenda) was the one who received the short end of the stick, while the ex-g (had and still has a very controlling/abusive presence in his life), got treated so well and continues to be treated so well along with the other Harem members? That’s actually what I called the short list I “knew about” (the ex-g and the CHAIR HAREM GIRL aka the “good friend” he slept with a long time ago who “temporarily” lived with him, encouraged his substance abuse problem and texted him an ABNORMAL amount). It was so obvious when he spoke to C.H.G. and then the EX-G (he still communicated with as I came to find out) because he was a completely different person which I tried to address. He looked at me with such disdain and would pick fights about the most ridiculous things and ALWAYS blame me. When we were together with no”interference” we got along so well and we were very compatible. We both knew what a great “potential” there was of a future but in the end his demons won. I knew he had issues but I also believed there was a good guy underneath that who I thought wanted what he finally found in and with me. The whole thing was a roller coaster and exhausting. This toxic Harem hold on him did play a role in the demise of our relationship. I told him I shouldn’t have to fight for his attention, our relationship, or pay for the stored up anger he had towards them. He was a grown man and that he was allowing their destructive behavior to influence him. That was before I found out about his active online dating profile that listed casual sex and short term relationships. Yup. I drew the line in the sand for good with that one. As hard as it is to believe and as much it hurts, the truth of the matter is that I probably will be forgotten as quickly as I came into his life. I know the RESET button, but this time the button has been set on ME. THE HAREM who have been waiting in the wings to move back into his spacious home, I am sure are making it that much easier to forget I ever existed and erase the good memories he…
Found My Own Strength
I just read your post and it put a chill through me because I thought for a few moments, ‘are we talking about the same guy here’!
Reading on, it isn’t, but it struck me that I was actually a CHG by default, and am concerned that you seem to be calling the harem toxic more than him. You recognise he’s narcissistic, but perhaps ‘if only they’d left him alone, we’d reach our potential’.
I want to give you another perspective on it, in the spirit of BR, in other words, helpful, constructive, compassionate, respectful, truthful (from someone who’s still learning)-
1. He is drawn to the ‘potential’ of other women and potential only. Once they start to become a reality, the potential is no longer there and he loses interest, but will return to them after some distance and press the reset button, starting on the potential again. I haven’t got to the bottom of this but have heard those words.
2. Following on, the CHG may appear to have power over him and get in the way, hold him back, but she no longer has ‘potential’ because of proximity, so will go to great measures to hold onto that ‘good guy underneath’ as you say, indulging him and the rest, not really an enviable position, they ALL have the short end of the stick!
3. The CHG, ex gf, whoever, is a smokescreen, an excuse, for him to back off when that ‘potential’ starts to look fearfully real. He is EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE, but can deflect the blame and at the same time look really desirable.
4. I personally don’t know any men who have ‘toxic’ ex girlfriends in their life who they don’t want. Yes people can be a bit masochistic and it’s hard to get rid of people, but I think we have to accept that man or woman, as much as we complain about having people in our lives who shouldn’t be there, we can all NC if we really want to and call the police if we REALLY have no choice
5. You talk about the “toxic harem hold on him” which you blame for the demise of your ‘relationship’, yet he has an active online dating profile! I’m afraid every emotionally unavailable woman in your city would have to disappear before you had him to yourself!
6. The harem is not responsible for his anger towards you. He is or you are. It’s between you and him. He shouldn’t being his baggage into your time together and if he does, it’s his responsibility, not…
7. you say you are on only nice girl with no agenda, but you DID have an agenda, to single him out from the others who you think are toxic. Isn’t that damaging? I’m afraid everyone loses their innocence in this situation, no ‘victims’ here.
Great that you’ve gone NC but I think your role and his role need to be recognised to avoid these kind of problems in the future. I wish you luck and some wonderful peeople here.
Dear Happy Beginning,
My EXBF is completely EU and I know that b’cuz of all the characteristics he displayed (nothing was ever his fault, fast forwarding, all the words with no back up actions, etc). Anytime real emotions were brought up he avoided them, picked a fight, and then pressed restart. He is the reason I broke up with him. I didn’t have an agenda. I thought he was my soul mate and was high on all his promises. I did not know these women existed when we first started dating. They suddenly popped up out of the woodwork when I called him out on his odd behavior. CN and people with personality disorders crave love, but when they get it, they despise it and destroy it. He also admitted that he knew he was being too nice and thus being used by them. His anger issues were his own and just deflected onto me. The more love I showed and the (unbeknownst to me at the time – communication with them) fueled his rage where I was the unsuspecting target. I don’t know any of this at the time. This is very common for CN or people w. personality disorders. It was all very abrupt and when I was given some of the pieces (aka. that the harem existed and he had regular contact with them), his not so nice (Dr. Jeckll) side that all began to add up. You are absolutely right that when real things came up, like emotions, he ran to people that didn’t require much effort but supplied the ego stroking. I called him out on his crap. I do admit, I was doing some of the “what if they hand’t existed” until I discovered this great site. The revelation of this group came in bits and pieces towards the end. I was confused with his hot and cold behavior and I now understand that they were a crutch to him and being EU. The EXGF was EU and made it clear wanted no emotional attachments but still wanted a role in his life as had been and is the case for over 8 years. She broke up his marriage and I’m probably not the first relationship she “honey bashed” in his life. It’s all control. Girl one, girl two, crimson flags, and then dating profile and I was out of there. As we got closer it all fell apart because it became more real. He is responsible for the actions that distanced us. In the aftermath, the pieces all came together much more clearly. This website helped me better see the “brief happy” memory lane and better understand all the various actions and that it wash’t my fault. It’s also made me stop and look and see how my “Florence N” side, my wanting to believe the potential, believe him, and the boundaries that I allowed him to cross because of my blind faith that love would prevail are my own responsibilities. This website and the whole situation has shed so much light in helping me heal and see and understand my mistakes so I won’t repeat them the next time.
Hi again Found My Own Strength
Most people thought my ex-AC was so nice and genuine and caring, and that the friends of his who were odd or downright nasty were either taking advantage of him, or he just had a poor filter and was too accepting, spreading himself too thin. It’s only in hindsight i can see that many decent people don’t stick around or they know to keep him at arm’s length.
I do actually worry about him and believe I really looked out for him and had his best interests at heart, but he had zero loyalty, love, respect, or even basic decency towards me and that was NEVER going to change.
I remember 1 woman coming into our flat a lot and treating me as an obstacle, like the troll at the bridge, and I think he loved the tension but to me, it was unbearable, and I pretended to accept it and just give them space because i was tying myself in knots trying to give him what he wanted, thinking I might be upgraded from fallback girl one day. That puts some of the responsibility on me, but now I know he assumed I was crazy about him all along and knew he was upsetting me. I don’t know how someone can fake being nice so well and for so long. I thought we were soulmates and we had such fun together. I’d been in her position too, could empathise with her (though admittedly couldn’t stand her!) because he was fast forwarding her, as he would do with me the next week, and someone else the week after that! What a complete f’up. Sounds like your ex at least didn’t piss on his own doorstep, but deception is just as bad. I don’t even miss him, I see a different person when I think of him, maybe the real him. I’m working very hard to stop punishing myself because the whole thing was a punishment.
It’s been 6 months since I saw him and I’m starting to love myself and even better, know exactly who I am and feel complete, though 2 days ago, the mere mention of him pretty much ruined my day and set me off into insecure thoughts about work and other areas of my life. Can’t believe that used to be a typical day. Big hugs to you on your healing journey x
Hi Natalie
What a great post. To all those who have made comments your views, thoughts and perspectives have all been noted.
I had been interested in someone for a long period of time work colleauge). From the beginning I was unnerved by the hot cold behaviours. However outside interests meant that I was usefully occupied for most of the time. Much future faking and interested in my activities including music choices. We had many lunch dates (I initiated), attended events but still I was unsure. Slowly I saw the real man and let me tell you it was something to see. Sulking (which I ignored), forgetting to do stuff (which I ignored), snide comments (which I ignored), needing regular ego strokes, expecting me to organise everything (well I had set the standard right) and when the needs were not met (sex) returning to an old girlfriend to which I wished him well. That relationship broke up (surprise!!). He was then back on my case (yeah I was still intrigued) and was blowing hotter than before. More outings and lunches. However I still felt unnerved and began to understand why he reminded me (behaviours) of an ex of 10yrs.
Thankfully there was no intimacy (I was not willing) and had promised myself I would get to know a person first (that had not been my usual M.O)this resulted in more sulking and finally him moving on into another fast relation with someone we both know. The harem feels that he is wonderful. They have never got that close to him. This new girl has only recently joined the harem so naturally feels that she has a catch. I had been expected to compete for his affection. I did not so there has been sulking and snide put me down comments. He sent a recent email which I have ignored and called. Ignored that also. The role I have at work means that I no longer need to participate in the harem and will seldom see him, however I shall take great interest in watching it from the sidelines.
I am very greatful for this relationship as it has confirmed that I truely deserve a healthy and harmonious relationship.
Wow, Sophia, your story is similar to mine and I appreciate your sharing.
Some time ago, I was interested in someone at the gym (I know, stupid me) and we eventually did have a brief relationship. I started feeling like he was seeing other women at the gym, so I confronted him. He got angry, said things like, “they don’t mean anything,” “it’s not what you think,” yada yada, so I ended it. I did return to the gym, with friends, and even went to his classes, sat in the back and made no attempts to talk to him. After a few months of doing that, I started to notice the hubub of women around him, and how they all swooned over him. He was like a King holding court. I stayed in my little world and ignored him and those around him, except one woman, Patty, who I unfortunately befriended.
Patty, I later found out, also had a relationship with him, and was hellbent on starting one up again. She waits for him after class to talk to him, got a coaching job at the school he teaches at, only goes to the gym if she knows he’ll be there, etc. It’s actually very pathetic, and I know she doesn’t think very highly of herself, but I’ve learned to not feel sorry for her, as I shall share in a bit. She’s also the booty call for another man for the past 8 years, but that’s a different story. I’d talk to her at the gym, went out a few times and had drinks, and actually liked her. Sadly, our friendship would end over him.
About 5 months after the end of my relationship with Gym Guy and continued ignoring of him and his harem, he started hitting on me again, saying, “Hello Lovely” in that purr voice he uses. I politely declined his advances, but rode the same bus as he did to get home at night, so would see him there. We talked, he told me his life story, talked about his absent father, inability to find true love, how hard it is to work as a teacher to young girls (I know that’s sick), blah, blah. That went on for 2 months. Then all the sudden, bam, he’s cold to me, not talking, even rude. Could never figure it out. Then I hear from a friend that he wanted to know why I continued to follow him to the busstop even after our relationship ended…essentially I became a stalker in his eyes! I couldn’t figure out what had happened, as we seemed to be at least talking and civil, I stupidly thought we could be friendly. I could only surmise…
Hi Lori
You must have really got under his skin. The one that got way. Good for you.
Thanks Sophia. I didn’t realize my story got cut off. I don’t know if I’m the one that got away, but he spends an awful lot of time going out of his way to ignore me then will do silly things like single me out in class to help him with something, etc. These behaviors escalate when I completely ignore him, so I think he’s definitely got some narcissistic tendencies going on. I’ve sort of come to realize how sad a person he probably is. One of the last conversations I had with him was about dating in general. At that point, I thought we were friends, so I didn’t really think too much of the conversation. He droned on about not being able to find love, etc., and when I said, “I don’t think you give anyone a chance,” the mask fell away and I saw who he truly was. He said things like, “I don’t go up to women, they come up to me,” “All my married friends are miserable,” I can have whomever I want” that sort of stuff. Once he said these things to me and I saw who he was, he stopped talking to me completely. Only more recently, particularly when I ignore him, does he try to make contact with me, most likely as a harem member. Sadly, he’s turning 50, the young girls aren’t going to his classes anymore, and his circle of friends has dwindled. And no women approach him in bars, thought I’d add that. The last holdout in the harem is Patty, and she is who I really feel sorry for.
I had what I thought was a friendship with Patty, but when she started to see him distancing himself for me, she jumped in and now waits for him after class every night to talk, or most likely entice to her place. She won’t even talk to me, so I can see that our friendship was nothing more than her attempt at getting him or getting me out of the way. She’s waited for another man for 8 years, so she’ll wait for this one. Funny part is, Gym Guy is the sort who wants what he doesn’t have, so he’ll get his ego strokes from her, but won’t ever care about her. Or maybe she’ll become the panic relationship for him when all else fails.
Lori… stalker.. they LOVE That one. They even get their proxies to accuse you of STALKING. LOL… what a jerk your guy is. Like he’s stalk-worthy??? LOL!!
Sophia-
I feel the same way. I am actually grateful for my relationship too for the same reason. I deserve I healthy relationship with some one who treats me well and wants to be with me and only me as is emotionally available! It’s taught me a lot about me and what I want and what I can do to get the kind of love I deserve. It’s also helped me better that I am not alone, boundaries, and learning to forgive myself. This website has lifted a huge weight off my shoulder and has put a clear spotlight on things I needed to see and understand in a very real way.
I agree, feels so good to know that Iam in good company on this site. Its so good to finally remember/rediscover who we are and that only accepting the best is our birth right.
I’ve been obsessed with my ex for two years now. I’ve tried to move on but I guess it was never really a firm determination to actually get over and move with my feelings for the person and with my life. These days, I am doing much better than before but I still can’t stop cyber stalking my ex. I don’t know what it is, but I often feel that their life is a lot better than mine and that I kinda have to be a member of this “harem” and put them on a pedestal like others. I know that this feeling comes out of insecurity and I’ve tried not cyber checking them but often times I break my own promises.
When I look at their pictures, I don’t feel anything really romantic nor any tingle, just a little pain in my heart. Yet I do it.
Why is it so hard to stop….
An ex of mine from over 35 years ago still sleeps with at least 3 women he bagged in HIGH SCHOOL. Brags about it too. He’s on wife #2, who used to be part of the ‘harem.’ He’s a total Narcissist. Big job, big house… and marriage would never stop his sleeping around. I got dumped when I said I refused to be one of many and demanded some accountability; then later told the truth to wife #2 WHEN SHE ASKED. I will not be an enabler or bystander to an abuser ever again.
Oh, does this explain a lot about my ex. Prided himself on having friendships with many of his exes. Asked me to stay out of the way when they came over to visit lest I make them “uncomfortable”. I was not to touch him, etc. in their presence. Did not understand my objecting when he took one of them fishing for a day, called me late that night and said that they’d had such a great day that they were going to stay over at a mutual friend’s house that night – they actually shared a room. Told me that if he wanted to go out with any of them at any time, to dinner or whatever, that he would, and no, I was NOT invited. I do not plan to join his Harem of Exes – and am suffering the consequences of that via a smear campaign, but I am free of his abuse other than that, and counting my blessings.
These comments have been a big help to me.
I am now back to complete NC after angry text sent today (oops :/) .
My ex Assclown of the Century has a Facebook harem that is incredible!
He has hundreds of friends, which I find to be suspicious, mix that with the fact that they are 75% women, and a dash of his other AC behavior: Narcissist Cocktail!
We dated for a year, broke up, I was immediately replaced. No Contact for 4 months, then he moves out of state into his best friends house. His best friend just happens to be married to my best friend ( who sees him clearly, but is part of his harem nonetheless). So here he comes, promising of change, blowing HOT! He wants me to move with him, being with someone else cemented that I was the one, we can start over, he has more opportunities there, we can live a happy life, I’m the LOVE OF HIS LIFE! Silly me…hook, line, and sinker.
So here I am, thinking were starting over. He moved away, out of state, surely all the scummy women he knows here will no longer be an issue. Surely he wouldn’t disrespect me while living with my best friend. So…I send him a Facebook friend request. I am the love his life after all. He denies it, in fact, REFUSES to be my FB friend. Normally, I would give two flying f***s, but my spidey sense kicked in. I flat out told him there was NO WAY I would consider moving with him if he had a place on the internet, where there was gobs of women vying for his attention, and I was not allowed to see it. WHAT was on there he didn’t want me to see?!? He finally relented under the condition that anything before that date on his page was NEVER to be discussed (Yeah, he actually said this)! Turns out, he has been flirting with one particular woman. And I mean she is saying sexually explicit things to him. Publicly. They talk about meeting up, and drinking and having sex, she tells him how beautiful he is. Oh, and she herself is engaged! They are a match made in heaven. So OBVIOUSLY I call him out on this disgusting behavior….he the deletes me and tells me it’s over! He says he told me not to bring it up, he baits me to send her a message knowing I won’t (crazymaking!), he tells me he thinks he wants to be single after all. But the best part is, he flat out denies any wrong doing. He says he has no control over what she does, and that if he thought it was wrong, wouldn’t he have deleted…
I’ve been reading this site for ages. It’s great. But this post, is really right on. After discovering that my ex was still emotionally and romantically involved with two of his exes and the woman I suspected him of cheating on me with, I dumped him. In a curious peek to his Facebook page, I discovered a post from yesterday that all three of them “liked” at the same time. So classic. and so glad to not be a part of that mess. Social media may really suck sometimes, but it does make it harder for liars to get away with their lies…