A couple of years ago, I worked with a client that struggled to get over a six-month ‘relationship’ where it had become apparent that her now-ex had limited interest and was seeing other women. She wanted feedback on an email she intended to send to him expressing her discontent. This immediately had me curious. All became clear when I asked about how often they communicated–there had only been two phone calls in six months. Two. Everything else was texts and emails. That wasn’t a ‘relationship’; it was like being a sexual pen pal.
When it all boiled down to it, most of the lazy communication via text and email served four purposes:
- Arranging to get together (read: hook up).
- Getting a quick ego stroke.
- Quickly watering her ‘attention garden’ so that she continued to dangle on the hook.
- Keeping her (and anyone else) he was seeing at a distance.
I’ve come across many people, mostly women, that are in this situation, and the truth is this:
From the perspective of the ‘offender’, it’s obvious that this isn’t a relationship. For them, it’s a casual arrangement where they get a shag, an ego stroke, and a shoulder to lean on. For instance, in the above example, he only called twice in six months. He knows it’s not how either of you behave if you’re in a relationship.
Let’s be real: If you only called someone you had sex or ‘romantic involvement’ with occasionally, would you really think that you were that interested in them? Would you think they’re a priority?
Unfortunately, we’ve dropped our standards of what a relationship or someone being interested constitutes.
In ‘olden times’ (read: pre text, email, IM, Facebook, Twitter, blogs, etc), if someone wasn’t calling you and arranging to see you regularly, plus the relationship wasn’t growing, you knew they weren’t making an effort. You knew they had limited interest in you and being in a relationship.
In ‘modern times’, we think that when someone doesn’t call, and possibly doesn’t even see us that often, but they use the written word in these modern ways and enjoy the ‘trappings’ of being a couple, such as sex, that they’re ‘interested’, although we might realise, on some level, that it’s not as much as we would like.
For those of us that live in La La Land and would rather have a semblance of a ‘relationship’ on some terms rather than none, all this tippy-tapping of messages convinces us that they’re interested. We rationalise that an obstacle of some sort prevents them from getting in touch via traditional means. Or, we claim they’re ‘shy’ or ‘busy’ or that it’s the ‘new’ way of doing relationships.
A new way of doing things? Genuine interaction, courtesy, respect, care, trust, and intimacy aren’t dead or old. Yes, we have some extra communication options. However, people only claim it’s the ‘new way of doing things’ to legitimise crappy behaviour. Don’t participate.
Surely someone who isn’t really interested in us wouldn’t continue to text, email, DM, etc., and give the impression of being interested while sleeping with us, maybe expecting us to listen to their problems and give them an ego stroke? Believe it.
We want to be understanding. Heaven forbid we are too ‘needy’, put pressure on them, or, ooh, have expectations and standards.
We want to be easygoing. The last thing we want to do is scare them off by attempting to clarify where we stand.
Here’s the thing: Expecting bare basics, such as this person calling and you being able to call them on a regular basis, to scare them off, means you 1) have to recognise that the relationship is doomed and 2) you could stand to raise your standards somewhat.
The fact that someone would ever put you in the position of not knowing when you might hear from them next indicates a relationship without basic respect. Same for avoiding your calls. Or their disappearing and then texting trying to pick up where they left off. Or any other completely shady behaviour,
Relationships require effort, connection, and intimacy, as well as love, care, trust, and respect. The way of ‘olden times’ is actually exactly as it is now.
If they’re not calling and making genuine, human efforts that involve voice and sight to grow your relationship and, instead, they rely on lazy forms of communication, you’re in a lazy ‘arrangement’ with a limited connection that fosters false intimacy and builds sandcastles in the sky.
If they’re not calling and making genuine, human efforts that involve voice and sight to grow your relationship and, instead, they rely on lazy forms of communication, you’re in a lazy ‘arrangement’ with a limited connection that fosters false intimacy and builds sandcastles in the sky.
If they’re not calling you regularly or at all and instead opt for distanced means of communication, they are not that interested in you. They’re stoking your fire for when they next want your company.
It doesn’t matter if it’s not what you want or you didn’t ‘verbally’ agree to it. By participating and acting like it’s a full-on relationship, they end up getting more for less.
Just because sex is involved and this person’s ‘nice’ when they do eventually speak to or see you, doesn’t make it a relationship.
- If they’re not calling you regularly, they’re not that interested in you.
- If they’re not seeing you regularly, they’re not that interested in you.
- If they predominantly want to communicate via text, email, socials, etc., they’re passing time with you. They’re keeping you on the fringes of their life, not in their ‘inner circle’. As they say in ‘Meet The Parents’, you’re not in the “circle of trust”.
- If their communication pretty much centres around or leads to making an arrangement for sex and any other fringe benefits that say ‘relationship without the relationship’, it’s a hook-up (read: booty call) and hanging out.
- If you don’t know when you’re next going to hear from, you’re not in a relationship. And if you genuinely believe you are, you’re in a shady relationship tolerating disrespect.
- If they started out calling all the time and they’ve faded out to texting, DM’ng, etc., they’ve backed off. The novelty has worn off, and they’re managing down your expectations. Let the alarm bells start ringing when you start out with decent, if not somewhat intense communication and it fades to a dribble.
- If their way of telling you they miss you, checking in on you, or even saying they want to get back together is via text, email, etc., and they don’t pick up the phone or come to see you, they’re incredibly lazy.
- If they’re reluctant to move away from texts, DMs and emails to regular calls and seeing one another, they’re hedging their bets, checking out other options, or reluctant to give you the impression that you’re a priority or that you’re in a relationship.
- If they’re calling everyone else, making contact with everyone else, but you don’t hear a peep or are last in line, they’re not interested.
People who are actually in a relationship or even dating each another can pick up the phone to one another.
If you can’t, or you fear what will happen if you do, you’ve got problems. If you’re afraid to broach the subject of seeing them and you’ve been dating for several weeks or months and you’re feeling committed to them, this is a red flag that needs addressing.
One of the key components that distinguishes a bonafide, mutually fulfilling, healthy, loving relationship from being a casual/booty call/passing time situation or even a friendship is intimacy. Not only do the likes of texting erode intimacy, but the reliance on lazy means of communication is the mainstay of the emotionally unavailable that fear intimacy.
Do you want to get to know someone? Want to grow on all levels from dating into a relationship? Do you want to ensure you’re not Dial-A-Lay, Dial-An-Ego Stroke, or Dial-An-Emotional-Airbag? Keep lazy forms of communication to the minimum in your interactions.
I’m not saying don’t use them. However, texts/DMs/emails supplement being face to face and getting on the phone, not substitute. Texting is ridiculously prevalent in too many barely-there relationships. Not only are these lazy means open to miscommunication of tone, but they’re also open to miscommunication of intent and interest.
Actions still speak louder than words, and that includes the written word.
And you have to hold up your end of the bargain. The amount of emails I read from readers who do the following is scary:
- Sending a text/email to express discontent, to raise an issue for the first time, including, and I kid you not, confronting a current partner about cheating.
- Using Facebook pages to force the other person to get in touch by posting TMI (too much information) messages
- Sending emails complaining about the relationship and regularly listing their shortcomings and what the problems are. I call this People Who Write Too Much. They don’t want to ‘fix’; they want to vent. They’re also avoiding conflict and criticism, which means they’re avoiding intimacy.
- Breaking up via email and text, and one of the most frequent occurrences, breaking No Contact via text and email.
We engage in lazy communication because it’s low risk and ‘safe’.
Yeah, we’ll still get hurt, but it’s not what we imagine it would be if we really put ourselves out there. And truth be told, some of us engage in these means of communication because we get to be far more aggressive than we would be if we were face-to-face or on the phone. This is not conducive to a healthy relationship.
If you use lazy communication modes to manage the pace and temperature of the relationship, to create false intimacy, to express feelings that you wouldn’t express face to face, to confront others, to avoid ‘scary’ face-to-face conflict and to dodge and minimise opportunities for rejection, you are guilty of lazy communication and you are fostering lazy relationships.
Don’t allow someone to control the relationship, and don’t sell yourself down the river for trickles of attention. You deserve more. Stop selling yourself short.
Keep your investment proportionate. If they’re not making proper efforts to interact via phone and face-to-face on a regular basis and keep protesting about how busy they are and yadda yadda yadda, you need to roll back your level of investment.
Don’t project dodgy excuses for why they’re not making an effort.
- It’s not because they’re shy.
- They’re not the Busiest Person on Earth.
- It’s not because they’re better at texting than talking.
- It’s not because they want to make the most of their 500 free texts a month.
- Believe me, it’s not because they’re from another country.
- It’s not because they can be more uninhibited (read: say sexual stuff).
- They’re saving up everything for when they see you.
It’s time to be honest and ask: What means more to you–having a semblance of ‘something’ on any terms rather than no terms? Or having an actual relationship?
Whichever it is, own that choice. If you genuinely want to be in a loving relationship, letting someone string you along with crumbs of lazy communication is not the way to it, no more than raising issues via these means is.
But letting go of someone who strings you along and setting basic standards of communication from the outset quickly weeds out the shady and the lazy. It ensures that you get to put your whole self into your relationships.
We can’t, much as we may want to, have it all ways. It’s the whole ‘shortcut’ issue where we want to set low standards by having little or no boundaries, accepting dubious behaviour, while still getting the relationship we claim to want.
We want to turn a pig’s ear into a silk purse and we get frustrated when, surprise, surprise, that’s impossible. These types of situations are not destined to become ‘great’ relationships.
Think of it this way: if you were dating someone and they had the option of calling you and the option of seeing you but they chose to, instead, send you an occasional ‘note’ or preferred to send you letters but not really move things along, or left voicemails but in reality only spoke with you infrequently, or only contacted you when they wanted to get together, what would you think?
Remember: Lazy communication equals lazy relationship.
You deserve more than that. Don’t sell yourself short.
Your thoughts?
Check out my ebooks The No Contact Rule, Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl, and more in my bookshop.
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It is amazing to me how many of us think texting, twittering, facebooking equals “communication”.
There is no mobile phone, a texting tool, an I-whatever, or anything in our relationship. If my guy wants to talk to me, he has to actually SEE me. Novel, huh?
One more thing ~ we started a great practice that works for us: When we have problems, we have tea. We sit down with a cup of tea and talk about problems or concerns or challenges – this is important – NOT just with each other, but also about life and work, family, etc.
The other “rule” we stick to is that tea is for RESOLUTION not RUCKUS. The point is each person must really want to solve problems.
Lastly, no interrupting! (We break this one sometimes.)
It works! When he drives me crazy (I swear, he really does sometimes), I can say: “Well, there is tea, we can do that…” and I feel better because there is another option from just suffering or fighting.
When all elase fails, we swordfight (with padded swords). Hard to be mad after that!
This is the cutest thing ever! 🙂
Blaise,
I love your problem solving tools. Seems very healthy. Thanks for the ideas!
Thank you for reminding me precisely why I dumped my last boyfriend. My new, non-negotiable standard is that any man in my life has to make a genuine effort to talk to me.
Saludos!
Ditto to Munro, thank you. Reinforcement is a wonderful tool when you’re tempted to take less than you truly desire. I compare my last ‘arrangement’ to wanting Doritos but getting the no name brand and being surprised that I still craved Doritos – i.e. the cheap alternative did not cure the craving, which in my case was a re-la-tion-ship. And you know what, I did end that ‘arrangement’ by text, but guess what, it started with a text (from him, a how you doing/get back together ploy) and when I tried to end it with a call, he wouldn’t answer, so it ended as it had begun! Ironic, no?
That said, God it feels good to have standards. The low moments do come but unlike last time (this is the 2nd – and final – time we’ve broken up), I don’t want ‘it’ back. Crumbs don’t cut it when you’re starving. And now, when I’m approached by men, who take my number but send texts instead of call (what the hell!), they don’t even get longlisted, further more short listed!
Natalie, you’re a star, continue the wonderful work, you’re saving lives here!
Niki: WOW! That sounds similar to the story my ex told me about his last ex: only he claimed she broke up with him via text and never explained why. It later came out that he avoided her calls because he “couldn’t be bothered” because all she did was complain. She had good reason. He was a secretive, self-absorbed coward. He continued to pursue her. I now see that he pursued her because she finally had enough and was done with him. He also claimed they lived together when they were a couple, yet I later found out that he still maintained his old residence during that time. I congratulate her for leaving him flapping in the wind with a giant question mark hanging over his head. In the end, I see that he must have treated me as badly as he did her, because I just gave up on him and cut my losses, too.
Nat
I’ve been in a few texting/sexting, messaging situations. At first they can be quite good fun but quickly become most unsatisfactory. Now, whenever I read a post that goes “he texted me … i emailed him … we were messaging last night …” my alarm bell rings like the clappers. It’s such a bloody waste of time! If you’ve got something to say to each other, especially anything important like … your future, say it in person! If you can’t say it in person there’s no relationship! It’s NOT a NEW way to communicate, it’s NOT just an alternative means of communication it’s the ultimate non-communication.
It’s worse than saying nothing. At least if he’s saying nothing you know where you stand!
Novel indeed Blaise … but hey shouldn’t be something that we get surprised at. I admire you … I got stuck in a situation whereby me and my man literally didn’t talk at all on the ‘phone for 3 months and our relationship (if you can call it that) revolved around our pcs and mobiles … I stupidly didn’t put my boundaries down with him from the beginning ie only face to face or voices on ‘phones should have been my demand. I ditched this guy at Xmas and have been N C since – despite him being in contact since then (via email of course!) – I have stuck my guns and blanked him and his (3 up to now emails!
I was guilty of building sandcastles in the sky based on interspersed contact for over 2 years. It’s so embarrasing to me now knowing everything that I’ve learned about EUM’s and my own responsibility in the dance. Plain fact is I didn’t have enough love and respect for myself to cut it off in the beginning when I sensed things were just not clear. I wanted to believe he secretly loved me… and even if he did in his limited capacity, it would never have been enough anyways. Or the healthy consistent love that I was craving. Regardless, NC did the trick and allowed me ALL kinds of clarity as time went on as to my self-esteem issues and practicing new found boundaries that these tactics won’t fly if you want me in your life. I’m worth activity… calling, seeing, and doing!
Interesting Nat. I had a conversation with a friend this weekend that I gave my copy of “Get out of Stuck to read” she is totally eating it up by the way. Her eyes were huge with “why didn’t I know this stuff before.” Her like I was raised “old school” where people actually called, you broke up in person – there was no text, cell phones – the internet wasn’t even an option way back when AND we were raised by an older generation. The world certainly has changed and we in turn have to change with it. She has two young daughters – I reminded her that it is better late than never and its her job to teach her daughters well so they can avoid the hell we went through. Its your job to educate them not to accept the BS that gets shelled out as fast as a burger at a drive through window.
As I have said before (in person) – I will not lay down my heart for a man that won’t even pick up a phone!
Oh, it’s SO true. I let this happen to me and it was ugly. Hideously. And he still got to be the one to end it. What an idiot I was!
But I learned. And the next time I demanded what I deserved. And got it. And married him.
I will teach my daughter what I learned the hard way so she won’t have to go there!
Oscar Wilde once said that there were onlt two great tragedies in life:
1. Not getting what you want.
2. Getting what you want.
What would happen if the man in question started a big blitz on the text messages, phone calls and lovey dovey stuff?
I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that the lady in question would be repulsed. Totally turned off!
Once again missing the point… it’s not about saying we want a guy to text us constantly. It’s about understanding communication activities that are healthy when dating someone. A man or woman that would incessantly text would also be considered a red flag and potentially unhealthy behavior.
Workshy joe,
What you describe is not normal either; it’s the other end of the extreme (i.e. plain creepy). What about something in the middle? Is “normal” too much too expect?
And… This is about learning to recognise guys (or girls) who are just trying to take the piss.
Its very hard to get it just right.
Looking back on my own experience I was always punished for regular contact and rewarded for being aloof. Go figure!
Workshy Joe –
I read a bit of your blog. I am confused about why you are on BR?? Did you work things out with your lady in January as you blogged? You seem very frustrated but you certainly have a strong point of view on your blog. What’s up?
What frustrates me is the lack of mutual understanding between the sexes.
I find Baggage Reclaim to be a very interesting blog. Both when I agree with it and when I don’t.
Joe, most of us want middle ground and consistent effort, not smothering as the answer to wanting more connection and intimacy, and not being completely in the dark either. When one asks for a hug, we don’t anticipate a headlock.
I’ve had too needy, and the opposite, the guy I harldy hear from, except when it’s convenient for him.
Middle ground is good, balanced is good!!
Knowing what I know about other men (including myself) that Aristotelian Mean is likely to prove elusive. Sorry.
First, Aristotle hated women.
Second, Aristotle is quoted as counselling boys who had elder male lovers (in that protege-protector way of that society) how to stop being depressed.
Not a good guy to get advice from!
Calibration is important.
I think that most men are pretty clueless on this one. The ones that aren’t clueless are far more calculating than you’d think.
Workshy Joe,
I have to be direct here because you don’t seem to be getting it at all. Polorised thinking, black and white thinking as I have said before to you is not helpful in allowing YOU to see the full range of human behaviour that is out there. Its not alpha or beta male and its not men and women’s behaviour which is at fault that is way too simple and just absolves YOU of taking any responsibility for YOUR inabilities in relationships.
You said “What frustrates me is the lack of mutual understanding between the sexes”
Women in healthy relationships are looking for and wanting to be treated with dignity, respect, having committments honoured, being listened to etc and these are basic humanistic behaviours which enable good relationships. Its not rocket science or even statistics!! There are plenty of good men and women out there who understand and can deliver on this! There are plenty of men also looking for the identical attributes!
Both men and women need to understand the bullshit they bring to the relationship, own it understand why they accept it from others and why they act in the way they do.
Maybe if you considered the bullshit you may have taken into your relationship with your girlfriend and looked more closely at yourself instead of trying to justify a superior attitude as alpha male behaviour you would be able to “get it!” and own YOUR contribution to YOUR own relationship dynamics.
I was in a “sexual pen pal” situation with an EUM that I allowed to continue for a grueling, unhappy 4 YEARS – so humiliating! He initiated this non-relationship and then backed off when I was clearly “hooked”, but I kept it going with obsessive, self-destructive perseverance, although all the signs of his lack of interest, unavailability and disrespect for me were squarely in front of my face the Entire Time. Maybe 3 phone conversations during this non-relationship’s sad course (he called 2x when drunk) and “meetings” (i.e. hookups) once every 4/5 months with me initiating contact almost 98% (he would initiate contact when he felt my interest waning – waning interest being my many unsuccessful attempts at NC). We rarely spoke to each other, rarely saw each other, but there were many bouts of wholly unsatisfying emailing that he consistently directed towards a sexual nature (me stupidly complying thinking this would bind him to me). I made myself CRAZY, and sadly became physically ill, trying to figure out where he was coming from. He refused to give me his mobile number (he had mine) and his secretary fielded all calls, which he didn’t return. I was clearly a booty call, expected to show up w/in a moment’s notice (which I did) when he felt the urge and could fit me into his Oh So Busy Important Schedule. But I refused to acknowledge the TRUTH, deluding myself that we were soul mates (hahaha!!!) and making endless excuses for his behavior. I’ve been NC since 1/1/11 – didn’t think it possible, too painful. But I will stick to my guns. Every day of NC gets easier thanks to this site, Natalie’s wisdom and the insight, compassion and strength of other posters. Thank you All.
Electronic communication is an instantaneous and illusory contact that creates a sense of intimacy without the emotional investment that leads to close friendships. ~Clifford Stoll
I think the above quote says it all. I have gone so far as to get rid of my cell phone so texting has ceased to be an option for me or for anyone I am currently seeing. I think you nailed it, NM, when you talked about people using these methods of communication to keep you on the hook. Texting, e-mail and the like really are great tools for EUMs to use to keep you invested with little or no investment on their part.
This is SO true. My last boyfriend actually seemed afraid of talking to me on the phone. I think it was actually too intimate a form a of communication for him! And he was 45! I never liked it but put up with it because when we would talk on the phone, he always sounded so uncomfortable, it actually made me uncomfortable.
Now I am starting to date someone whose main form of communication is, so far, the phone. It started via email but has progressed to phone calls and it is SUCH A RELIEF. Who ever thought the sign of a true man would be being able to pick up the phone? But it is. I hope I never allow another “relationship” of mine to rely on lazy communication because it definitely is a bad sign.
Thanks, NML!
yes…very smart thinking…that is a bad sign, as I have learned, there are people out there with major personality hangups and devious intentions who will make you think they care when they don’t… (crying as I’m typing this…not over mine yet…)
I talk to people all the time…I mean INTIMATELY talk to people all the time, but with this person, the person I loved so much, I was actually very uncomfortable on the phone…you know why? because we never talked on the phone enough for me to ever get comfortable with it!!! Of course, it was as comfortable as all get out for him to meet me somewhere to screw…no intimacy issues there…wtf??? people are AMAZING in the lengths they will go to to add another notch to the bed post…it’s effing unbelievable to me.
Those of us who are extremely loving and caring and family oriented and friend oriented and HUMAN oriented in general are not always tuned to tricks of predators. In person, for 5 minutes, we’d probably pick up on it and turn and run fleeing, but online…we never pick up on those things. It’s actually quite scary when you think about it…
stay away from those wanting to hide behind technology like that…what is it they are hiding exactly? They aren’t trying to hide all their caring feelings, their intimate desires to make you happy, and their charm behind a computer screen you know. They are hiding ugly, dark things about themselves back there…
I’d call that more than a red flag…I would call finding out someone has the option of having a genuine face-to-face or voice-to-voice experience with you, but chooses to hide behind typed words…reason to run screaming!
I agree with our brilliantly wise moderator…if you choose to continue in this kind of relationship, just know what risks you are taking, and definitely back off your own level of investment to a comparable level… one sided relationships suck.
I agree totally- they are definitely hiding some ugly, dark things: like being unable to cope with real people, real emotions and well, real life, for starters.
I don’t do IM, never will do online dating again, I do not “friend” guys I’m dating on FB. They are all leeways for shady behavior. I do text,but next time I date someone, I won’t entertain texts.
I defriended the EUM from my Facebook as well as his friends. Its been NC for 5 months, and he hasn’t picked up a phone, so I know where he stands.
I’m 31 and am reversing to my early days of meeting up with people and phonecalls. I don’t necessarily like talking on the phone too much, but I will meet up and spend actual time together.
I don’t believe in long-distance relationships either, sorry all that do, but I’ve tried everything and have come down to basics.
If we give the guy too much leeway to be shady, they will more than likely take it.
Let’s respect ourselves first!!
“If you don’t know when you’re next going to hear from, you’re not in a relationship and if you genuinely believe you are, you’re in one when you’re being disrespected.”
Natalie, this is beautiful. I never knew when I would hear from my EUM. I was grateful for ANY communication from him. I raised my standards, and that started with ME changing my thinking. You are RIGHT RIGHT ON Natalie…. Mazel tov (hebrew for best wishes) on your engagement…
me too!!! I’m changing and it’s beautiful!
what about a man who not only uses texting as his primary mode of communication with us (although he does phone, albeit inconsistently), but who constantly texts others while in our presence?
joanne
that’s rude – whether it’s a man, a friend or a member of your family.
Yes, so rude. I hate it when people are constantly texting when in company. One poster recently said that a guy she was on a date with did the talking or texting on his phone during the date – she told him that he was obviouslytoo busy right now, got up and walked away… I liked that.
Basically that says that the person they are sitting with is much less interesting and important than the person they are texting or calling. A girlfriend did this to me once during a lunch date. While she was yakking away, I got up, paid my portion of the bill, returned to the table and said “I can see this isn’t a good time for you, why don’t you call me when you are free and we’ll try having lunch again.” And I left. We are still friends. She never did it again.
Dear Natalie,
Although I like many of your posts and opinions, I have to disagree with this one. I believe this whole “communication technique” issue is a bit exaggerated. Believe it or not, I’m a woman and I’m not a fan of talking on the phone in general, not only in the romantic department. And my “written” communication is always quite brief: when I’m communicating with someone close to me, it’s more about urgent stuff or about fixing meetings (and I’m not talking about “hook-ups”). When the person is far away, I have no choice. I DO prefer seeing people face to face, though, and this is how I communicate better and when I make the most of my time with them. So yes, I am saving money (my phone bill is quite big as it is), and I am saving myself for when I meet the person “live”. And this has nothing to do with lack of interest or feelings! Therefore, I don’t blame someone (i.e. a guy) for e-mailing me instead of calling. It’s the thought that matters, and there are much, much, worse things in life and relationships! Nobody is perfect, and we should not stumble upon the little things!
Sandra
We’re not referring to your situation where you use email to arrange meetings, we refer to using text as the primary form of “communication”. I had over 500 texts from the ex-EUM in one month but he would not actually see me or call me. It got to the stage where if I didn’t get a text I was jumpy, if I did get one I was jumpy cos his sweet words were just … words. No action. There are posters here who have conducted entire “relationships” via internet chat. So while on the surface it may seem a little thing, it can in fact be a serious red flag.
Grace, I’m so shocked by your ex’s behaviour! Indeed, THAT is strange!!! And I bet he didn’t live in a different town or country, did he? There are some stories I hear from the commenters on this site , which make my ex look like a normal person. Oh well, probably I’m not dealing with an EUM after all, and maybe it’s just a sign of plain…immaturity (we are in our mid to late 20s).
Sandra 81
I get what you are saying but this element of the EU relationship is one small part of a much bigger picture. Let’s face it, it’s not a good sign if you never know when the guy will actually show up in person, is emotionally and communicatively withholding when he does show up, shows up sporadically and only after a curt ‘let’s hook up’ type text or email.
I’d say that unless everything else is okay (i.e. he moves the relationship forward by actually being around regularly- in person (even if he isn’t much of a chatter on the phone), the lazy communication text/email style is definitely not a good sign – not if that’s ALL he’s got for you. You can’t get close to someone whose objective is to keep you at a comfortable distance – and the lazy style – if that’s all he has for you in terms of communication and intimacy – is all about keeping you at arms length and making sure you don’t get any big ideas about yourself!
I don’t have an issue with a guy not caring much for talking on the phone; I have a issue with him not caring much for talking – full stop! I have an issue with a guy who doesn’t ever pick up a phone, and when I haven’t heard dickie bird from him in weeks then sends me one-liner texts or emails whenever it suits him to “drop by” – sporadically.
Fearless, it’s good to hear from you again! 🙂 Yeah, I agree with you 100%! 🙂 Fortunately, in my case, it’s not ALL he does: we are pretty much in each other’s lives regularly, even if we didn’t get back together. And with group meetings, he always makes attempts at remaining alone with me, distancing ourselves from the group. Or he shows lots of interest for my family and my work. I always make a joke saying that he loves my grandad more than he loves me! 😀 Even tonight I’m gonna see him. I always said I won’t take him back, but now I’m not sure… Wish me luck in making the best decision! 😉
Last night I got drunk and texted my ex (which yet again breaks NC). I also tried to phone him many times but he wasn’t answering. (He’s on the other side of the world, so he was working and didn’t have his phone on him.) Of course, this morning he sent me a text thinking I wanted to speak to him (probably to talk about getting back together, he was hoping…).
So annoyed at myself.
Nat, have you thought of writing an entry about drunk dialling/texting? How getting pissed can completely f**k up our efforts to stick to NC, etc. I swear I’m my own worst enemy. Always sabotaging my own efforts.
Betty,
Delete and block all forms of communication.
Betty – I think many of us have done that before! God knows I have. Don’t be so hard on yourself. There are apps that allow you a 24 hour grace period between when you write the text and actually being able to send it! Some brilliant person invented it just to prevent this exact type of thing.
Betty,
getting drunk is not a good idea when we are trying to stay away from them – we become all nostalgic or weepy or we imagine we are man mountain and can turn the whole thing round with just one carefully crafted and ever so endearing little text msg, which really needs a follow-up, so one becomes two, which really needs clarified, so two becomes three… no answer yet… so here comes number four… now not so much carefully crafted as Crazy Crackers Are Us…
I’m not a big drinker, but even so I am wary of even getting ‘ever so slightly sparkled’, cos I wouldn’t trust myself not to text him something ‘ever so slightly stupid’ and have to live next day with stupid features (me) – sometimes even just being in a cheerful mood is a danger spot for me: I think I am fine and well and all is good with the world and it would do no harm just to say hello to the nice man! 🙂 So am wary of even being too cheerful for too long – add drink to cheerful and I’m skipping merrily into the disaster zone! Here’s the message in short: stay off the booze! 🙂
@Betty: You will get the hang of it. It takes practice to stop! Start again. xoxo
Betty i know just how you feel. My EUM is in Norway I am in the states. He has acted just the way Natalie has said. No phone calls only texts and emails. He came home last week and I told him no, I would not see him. He texted/emailed like crazy but I stuck to my guns. It was really really hard but I realized that doing the right thing is the hardest part. I still don’t feel great but I know I ddi the right thing. I deserve better!!!! I want a man who loves me and wants to spend time with me and calls me for dates!!
Betty
Been there done that, I started by deleting his contacts from my cell phones and FB so I won’t be tempted (I used to be obsessed). Eventually I’m not anymore (5 months NC).
I also stopped drinking, I do occasionally have 1 drink when out my good friends.
But these are all things I wanted to do when I hit rock-bottom, so maybe you’re not ready yet.
Good luck!!
Oh god. This post just hit me in the face
This is exactly what I’m going through at the moment and I kind of knew it was wrong but this post just put the record straight.
I deserve better than texts and instant messenger.
It’s NOT ok if a guy doesn’t call me , doesn’t answer my calls and worse doesn’t even return them.
I’m sick of texting or whatever. So sick, as you said I’d rather have nothing than that crappy “relationship” situation.
Thank you , this post clarified what I was thinking inside for a long time. 🙂
Very True! Looking back into my dating history the common excuse would be “I hate talking on the phone” – this was after he had me hooked- every dating situation was they pursue me like I was the only woman in the world – calling, texting, spending time… then after newness wore of, I was apparently multiplied because I would get bare bones attn 0f lazy communication and we barely saw each other. The part that makes my head shake is I tolerated it and that they actually were able to make me feel guilty for expecting more.
t
I love electronic communication but relationships fester without real contact. Talking by text and e.mail is a waste of time if its all that is being done.
I have blocked my ex EU man from contacting me at all via e.mail, facebook or my mobile phone. He is blocked on my landline as well. He mentioned before I went NC that he wanted friendship. I have just told him to knock himself out by either writing a letter or driving up to have lunch and chat. He will never do that, as it involves work on his side and of course so far nothing from him as I expected!!
The most humiliating experience of my life was when I arranged a joint archery afternoon with this man. He met me in a nice hotel..where I was staying with work, came in had breakfast, had sex then as I was telling him where to go for the archery lesson, he then dropped in “Look I can’t stay all afternoon I have to shoot off!!!” I took one look at this wanker and got into my car and drove away. Twenty to thirty texts and calls in half and hour ! I guess what I am also saying is that people who actually like you and are not using you actually want to spend time with you as well as just shagging you!!
Its almost laughable when you see what a plonker you have been and how little work an EU man is really prepared to put in for your time, love and attention.
Reciprocity really is a good word. If people want you they reciprocate. I really felt like getting my bow out and shooting him in the cock! I retrained myself!
This comment is fantastic! It also re-confirms my belief that these men are not as “busy” as they claim. He leaves… no problem. You leave… 20-30 texts. Geesh.
@Josie: your last two sentences are comical!! Thank you for making me chuckle!!!
at Josie:
ha ha, I love this.
I had agreed to be “friends” after he told me he really liked me but that he was always so “busy”, which was part-true, he’s in med school, but guess what, that was the beginning of a red-flag parade. I should of known better.
What I can say now, is that if someone is truly interested, he/she will go above and beyond, and hell, I’m super busy too!!! Then he had more free time and of course he didn’t want to spend time with me.
So towards the end, I wanted to break everything off, but he insisted he wanted to “hang out” in the city. Reluctantly I met him after I went to dim sum with my close friends, so I felt strong.
I never could “dump” him, since we were never in a real relationship, BUT I made sure to NOT kiss, hold hands, even touch him. And this took a lot of self-control on my part, but in the end, I DON’T HAVE INTIMATE RELATIONS WITH MY OTHER FRIENDS, SO WHY SHOULD I WITH YOU??
Mine introduced me to texting – hadn’ t used it before him. I *did* insist on phone calls though and we saw each other on average 3x per week. I can’t imagine being strung along for months though. A guy tried it on me over a 6-week period a couple of years ago and I let that one slide to oblivion very quickly.
Yep! I fell for lazy communication, hook, line and sinker. He claimed he didn’t call anyone (not true as I found a note from a friend of his at his house saying “call me when you wake up” and he contradicted himself by mentioning calling other people and when he moved away after our breakup he posted his phone number for people to call. I told myself it was cause he was from Spain, I tried to explain it all a way. When I called him before our third date he actually answered and hung up on me! I like an idiot, called him back and left him a message. He never called me back. It then got even worst as he moved from texting me to e-mailing to only facebooking me and then finally texting. Lazy communication from a man who wanted nothing to do with me. The worst part- he would never tell me straight up, I’m not interested- he didn’t mind if I chased him till kingdom come, it just didn’t mean he’d respond.
I don’t post that often, but I’ve basically been a religious reader of this blog for almost 3 years now…after the demise of my “relationship” with an EUM, if not a first-class Assclown. And this post really resonated because, while we’re in the midst of emailing, gchatting, engaging in all forms non-verbal communication insanity with these men, it all seems so normal, like an acceptable way of talking to somebody. Your expectations really are, as Natalie always says, “managed down” in these situations. Worst of all, you let it happen, normalize the bad behavior and then “… want to be understanding…don’t want to be too needy. To put the pressure on. To…oooh…have expectations and standards. We want to be easy going and the last thing we want to do is scare them off by asking what’s up.” This was me to a T.
Embarrassing in hindsight? Yes. A valuable lesson? Absolutely. In fact, it took two times–interrupted by a period of NC for a little over a year!–for me to truly get it. Only in the midst of round 2, seeing my peaceful existence again being clouded by his presence, anxiety-inducing silences (when I wouldn’t hear from him, I would wonder what I had done wrong, which was clearly crazy! But, in this situation, I had been wired to do so!) and eventual cruel words (in round 2, I asked the right questions and, since there was no way to justify the obviously wrong answers, I went NC again–and have been ever since.
I guess you could call that my relationship epiphany and what I took as a sign that things didn’t have to be that way if I didn’t want them to. I started counseling, started going on dates and met a man (not an emotionally-stunted boy); we’ve been together for almost 7 months, he calls me, spends real time with me and, best of all, there is real emotional intimacy and communication here. Natalie always says that people who want to be with you don’t spend their time resisting you and it’s so true. Where there’s real affection and respect, there’s no resistance.
I agree that the lazy communication is just a small part of the bigger picture. My ex-AC called on the phone daily, either just to check in and say a quick hello or to make plans. He also texted me sweet messages when I woke up and before I went to bed. We saw each other in person several times a week. So, clearly, in this case, the texting was a supplement to other more personal forms of communication.
What made him an AC was that he came on really strong, wanted to see me ALL the time. Our relationship crashed and burned. We may have had sex, but we didn’t have true intimacy, we only had intensity. (He was very resistant to serious conversations.) Also, another AC behavior was the way he acted like an asshole for a few weeks prior to our breakup. I truly believe he wanted me to break up with him. I should have. I thought I was being clever by calling out his asshole behavior. He eventually did break up with me, and he even did that in person.
But he continued his AC behavior by calling me within two days of the breakup to say hello. He called pretty regularly, and we even hung out, and I mistook this as him regretting the breakup, so we ended up as “friends”. Looking back, I see he was just nosing around and keeping tabs on me. And he still acted like an asshole sometimes as a friend.
He acted like an AC again by ending our “friendship” by the silent treatment. Finally, he resorted to texting me his bogus “reasons” for being mad. I text back, and no response. I worried about repairing this unhealthy relationship for 3 weeks, talking to mutual friends, etc. I finally went to his house to try to talk in person. I may as well have stayed home and talked to the wall. I finally gave up altogether.
Shortly after all this, I found Baggage Reclaim. What an eye opener that was!!! (Thank you, Natalie.) SO much became clear to me, then. I had read on some other sites about what to do after the breakup, and I stupidly thought that being his “friend” and playing it cool would win him back! HA!!! So much for that advice. All I did was feed his ego, and give him yet another opportunity to reject me. Not to mention chipping away at my self-esteem and self-respect in the meantime.
So, yes, relying on texting is one issue, but watch out for all the others that Natalie talks about.
Nicole,
Your comments made me pause. I actually read it, scrolled and came back. Some other posters (and possibly even NML) might disagree with me if they respond, but based on what I read – your ex or the experience you had didn’t seem to fit into ACology.
It honestly sounds like you need to vent over your breakup – but the fact that your ex called you first thing in the morning and the last thing and night indicates you were on his mind. Also, that you saw one another several times a week reinforces through action that you’re on his mind. His calling you 2 days after you broke up, shows that he missed you and was perhaps hurt. And I do agree that his reason for wanting to be “friends” after the break-up was for him to keep dibbs, but I think the real reason is because he still likes you.
Sometimes, when a person doesn’t say the things we want them to say (in your case “serious conversations”) we can write off or begin to see every sign as negative or AC behavior. Now, I’m not saying your points are invalid – you lived your experience and you have to trust your instincts, but from what I read it just doesn’t sound like he’s an AC but that he just perhaps was not what you wanted.
Hey SunshineSoul,
I think you do have some valid points concerning my post.
I was trying to illustrate some of the behaviors that I have read about in Natalie’s posts about what defines an AC.
Such as, coming on strong in the beginning, and saying all the right things, then turning lukewarm or cold. While I was attracted to him, I was skeptical about dating him. He listened to my reasons, and very charmingly convinced me that I was worrying for nothing.
The physical chemistry was very strong, and I told him I wanted to wait to have sex, and he respected that decision for all of two weeks, before he would constantly ask me WHEN we would. About 4 weeks in (against my better judgment), I decided to have sex with him. He broke up with me a week later. And his reasons for breaking up were all the same reasons he reassured me didn’t matter in the beginning. His sweet nothings in the beginning were exactly that. Nothing.
She also talks about how a healthy man would give his ex-girlfriend some time to grieve the breakup before trying to be friends. And he was not stepping up and saying he wanted me back, he was just holding on. I agree, it probably was because he still liked me, but not enough to get back together. So, in my opinion, I think it’s not very sensitive. I didn’t see that at the time. I thought we would eventually end up back together, and so I didn’t cut contact like I should have. So, I spent the next 5 months being his “friend”. Only to finally have him dump me suddenly as a friend, with an explanation by text. And that was the end of it. Nothing ever resolved and we are no longer friends.
I just find it hard to believe he cared.
Yeah Nicole, he’s an AC in my book.
My latest escapade was with a MM (thankfully we didn’t have sex ) who would text me first thing in the morning and last thing at night. It didn’t mean anything, he was just feeling randy I think. Or bored. Don’t know, don’t care. What I do know is that you must look at the relationship in the round and not fix on what might SEEM like positive things. It MAY be a good thing if you see each other a few times a week (I did that with a previous EUM but each time I NEVER knew if I would see him again and I’d not felt that before with anyone), it MAY be a good thing if he calls you after a break up BUT only if he says “I made a mistake. Let’s talk about it” and proceeds to have an honest conversation outlining how things will change. That doesn’t involve sex. Otherwise, he is just d!cking you about. Especially if HE instigated the break up!
Ultimately, as sunshine says, you must make you own judgement.
Grace,
You and Sunshine are right. I have to make my own judgement. Funny thing is, I didn’t find this site until after everything, including the friendship, was over. I started to read all the posts here, going back a few years even, and I was shocked at how naive and clueless I had been.
Here were lists of behaviors that I would swear described him personally. And while it is up to me to figure out my past relationships, it does help to have some feedback. I really thought for a long time, that I was insane, and drove myself crazy even further trying to figure out his behavior. I realize now that I cannot rationalize something that is not rational to begin with.
So, thanks for the feedback. It’s a sanity check for me to hear your opinion, too.
Ah Josie … I had to laugh at the desired destination of your arrow. If only we were all so brave.
I’ve been involved with an EUM for the last 9 months. He pursued me and three of those months were fantastic. Then he went cold once I was hooked, I suspect there was someone else .. he said we shouldn’t contact, but reality is we have contacted most weeks since then via text, and most messages lead to pretty explicit stuff fairly quickly. There have even been a couple of phone calls which I am ashamed to say have led to phone sex. I resist his invitations to go over though for a quick shag, so do feel I have some boundaries in place.
I’ve tried NC, but I’m weak when he breaks it. I know he is not willing to put in the time and effort for a proper relationship, and he has told me as much. I have to ask myself what MY problem is. Why am I hooked .. why do I feel such a high when my phone sounds and his name appears next to the message? I love the banter with this guy .. but I need something more satisfying than him. Still I am hooked, but trying my best to NC.
Hi. This message today makes me really sad. It makes me realize one of the key areas where I was so easily mislead. It’s just crazy. My “friend,” who is married, would message me everyday…we talked for hours everyday…staying up all hours of the night. After a few months of this, his wife (who was so unavailable to him, didn’t want to give blow jobs, and abused him in other ways) got a job. NOW…finally! We can talk a lot on the phone (he lives several states away) and our relationship will blossom and grow and before you know it, we’ll both be happily dating and life will be great.
…only the phone calls hardly ever happened…and then, they didn’t happen at all. What happened? He loved me more than anyone else in the world he said, but he didn’t want to speak on the phone? He wanted to type to me? I was shocked…hurt…fairly devastated…because my feelings and my investment had been genuine. So…have barely heard for him for 6 weeks now…I guess with wifey going back to work, and still no action on his part, his cover is blown, so now he’s too embarrassed to be seen in the light. I got the “I just don’t talk on the phone much,” line, too.
So…here I am now…still genuine in my feelings…trying to transform this thing into some kind of friendship…and being hurt and let down again, because guess what? He doesn’t seem interested in that either…
How can someone just do this? Fake all this intimacy and emotion…do they sit behind their computer screens and laugh their asses off at the gullible person whose chain their jerking?
I’m in the early stages of recovery…still very bitter and hurt. But I’m doing much better than I was and this blog is helping me SO much…
Thanks.
I can almost hear the pain in your keystrokes. It gets better.
Your “friend” and I use that term loosely, was passing time with you. He has and had no intention of leaving his wife for you. Sorry to be so blunt…but at times like this we need the truth.
I have an ex who is now married, with kids. He reached out to me a while back and told me lots of things: “I’m sorry”, “biggest mistake…”, “what if…” My response…”Um…you’re married.”
Marriage for me is the proverbial and real line in the sand. No matter what this man has told you, he still wakes up in the same bed with his wife, still has breakfast in the same house with his wife and still goes to sleep in the same bed with his wife. The little and big things that happen in between those times still happen… with his wife.
This man is looking for what NML calls “an ego stroke”. He wants you to make him feel good on his terms. That also makes him a narcissist. I bet that same wife that “treats him so bad” also takes care of him when he’s sick, probably listens to him whine and vent about other people (after all he’s whining to you about her) and also probably wonders who he’s typing to again late on the computer, and is she good enough for him?
T, this is not the man for you. Put your feelings for your own self worth and value first. Because, if you don’t and settle for the mindless dribble this married AC wants to electronically send your way, you are setting your self up for a one way ticket to heartache. Cut the soul tie with this one quick and you’ll see it for the unhealthy situation it is. And really, would you want to be in a relationship with a married man whose character already shows you that when he’s in a legally committed relationship and unhappy, he looks elsewhere rather than deal directly with the issue and resolve it? Hope you read many more posts on here – NML, the comments and the belief that you are stronger than you think, will help move you beyond ACs like this.
Brilliant response Sunshine. I had a similar situation T. only it was the return of one of my first boyfriends, only now he was married, but he pursued me for a year or so (he knew I loved him and always had) electronically, but I kept putting him off and saying “Um you’re married, come back when you are free.” Then I’d go NC for a few weeks, which he’d break with a “how are you email” and like a dumbass, I’d respond because I didn’t want to be rude. Still I refused to see him, refused to engage in emotional or sexual emails. Finally she left him. And guess what? Suddenly he wasn’t so sure anymore, didn’t know what he wanted, didn’t want another relationship, just wanted to have fun…. I cut him off cold. That was almost two years ago. So even if they are married now and even if they pursue you madly, and even if you resist, chances are when/if they are finally free and have nine million other options – all of those will become more attractive then the relationship they had been promising if only it weren’t for timing, his kids, his sick dog, blah blah blah.
T. move on to someone who deserves you. xo
@T: messaging isn’t talking T, he’s married – and will remain married. Don’t kid yourself.
Funny how married men always pull out the lines about their wives being so and so – his wife didn’t want to give him blow jobs! what a line to throw out – unbelievable!
He was getting an ego stroke from you.
T, he lead you up the garden path and as a result you built sandcastles in the sky.
It hit me as I was reading this post and the comments, why EU men (and women) text/email for hook-ups: they’re bored.
Particularly true for sexting.
Hey, at least it makes sense to me. I think the cell phone has, if anything, done more to reveal that people are not as busy as they claim and are basically human beings leading primarily boring, uneventful (read: normal) lives that might include: another night of TV gorging, surfing facebook…again, snoring until the phone or their throat rings, or being outside of their home at a: bookstore, coffee shop, party, job, etc… and texting on their cell phone to make it “seem” like they’re more important or more social-friendly-popular than they really are – but don’t be fooled. They all equal one word: bored.
Think about it – if someone really is “that busy” they wouldn’t have time to send 1 text, let alone a series. It takes time to type a complete thought in slang.
“can i c u 4 dnr”
(wait for response – but pretend I am busy and respond back 10 minutes later)
“k”
“smile”
I hate when someone texts “smile” by the way. If you do, I won’t take offense. “smile”. arggh.
But I digress – the point to all of this is this: I have discovered that men who primarily text/email for hookups are not only lazy communicators (right on NML!) but they are also very boring people in general. Wish I could underline that. If you can stop for a moment and yank the curtain away from the wizard, you’ll see the only things that gives you the illusion that these men are more interesting than they actually are…are the two things you’ll come most to resent them for: the cell phone and the computer. Read it again – dare ya. Take both of those away and you’ll suddenly see Mr. Exciting’s nothing more than a (sigh…) regular guy with no interests outside of his (sigh…) regular job and (sigh…) regular life – you know, showering, eating, cranking the ignition yada, yada, yada, yawn. Ooh, ooh but wait– get this it gets even better when you realize, his primary excitement comes from…creating illusions of “Mr. in demand” to women who fall for his elusive treatment. But the simple truth is he keeps popping up and popping in because… he’s bored. Think about it, how often have you called, emailed, or text’d someone because you’re bored and found yourself suddenly caught up in a “oh well, let’s see where it goes” moment. These kinda guys do it all the time – not because they care, but because they’re so bored with themselves and their lives- problem is they’re doing it to multiple women, probably at the same time (we’re talking sexting here). Let’s face it – men who really are busy do sext. But, they do other stuff too, like: work, participate in their communities, take you on dates, call you, run 5 miles for exercise, work on a hobby that does not involve other women, surf the internet on sites that do not involve other women, hang out with their buddies– not to pick up other women. Seriously, there are only 24 hours in a day. If it takes a man 8 of those hours just to type: “hey”, “whzup”, “busy?”, “10ish”, “c u…l8tr”…guess what? “He’s Just Not That Busy.”
Ha ha ha – I am killing myself laughing, Sunshine – you are SO right. What a hilarious and spot-on analysis. I think boredom plays a huge factor and creating the illusion of being “in demand”. I shall never walk past another man texting and not burst into laughter. Thank you for that!
Yes, not only are they bored but they also have a bit of a toddler’s mentality. In that, when they first meet you, it’s like getting a new toy. You’re shiny and new and haven’t been played with yet! Then, once they’ve spent enough time with you and “hooked” you…it’s like the toddler getting tired of the toy and wanting a new toy.
But lo and behold if another toddler comes over for a playdate and sees the toy sitting in the corner and picks it up and seems to like it. Then they’re interested in it again, may even get into a fight with the other toddler over the toy, even though five minutes earlier it was just lying in the corner collecting dust! Same goes too when you stop dancing to their beat and begin to move on with your life. “Wait – she’s not doing what I expect? Suddenly she’s interesting again! Let’s see if I can win her back! I can? She responded to my texts? She wants to see me? If I see her she’ll be into me and have expectations again? So bored…need a new diversion…”
Okay, after I got up off the floor, still laughing hysterically, I realized something: You have completely explained everything in my last “relationship”! Everything! It dawned on me that Mr. Cool was really Mr. Yawn. Boring, boring, boring. Even his sex was boring.
Hi NML,
Great post as always, but im not sure I completey agree with this.
A load of my mates or dates are arranged by text message and mainly text message. I do see your point about lazy communication because my EUM used it to the T, but another guy whom I’ve dated whose very into me (unfortunately Im not that into him) he uses texts and facebook and he is interested in a relationship with me, im not saying hes never called me but thats only if we are arranging something quickly.
Would you say that this relates to friends as well? because we hardly speak on the phone anymore.
T,
you said:
“After a few months of this, his wife (who was so unavailable to him, didn’t want to give blow jobs, and abused him in other ways) got a job. NOW…finally!”
Unavailable men come out with some state of the art bullshit and one of the classics is how unhappy they are with their wives, girlfriends and fiancees. But here’s the deal, if they are so unhappy with these women why are they sticking around them? The clue is its because they give them more than YOU do and that is the bottom line. I, like you, completely deluded myself about the idiot I dated and yes he fed me the line “But she is no good in bed”..by implication then I was er nooooo what that statement really meant was that he ONLY wanted me for the bedroom situation not real life!! As soon as you stop letting them use you for sex, long boring conversations about them, sexting so they feel good about their erections , and meaningless texts about some garbage or other they will simply vanish.
You also said:
“How can someone just do this? Fake all this intimacy and emotion…do they sit behind their computer screens and laugh their asses off at the gullible person whose chain their jerking?”
I don’t think they are in touch with their emotions about you enough to laugh their assess off as one poster on here said they are just bored and you fill in the gap between boredom and erection. I am not even sure its personal in the case of my EUM he has other women he was doing this bullshit to. I read the sad e.mails they sent him saying “why are you ignoring my calls” and one poor woman saying ” I know that I have value, why are you treating me like this?”.
I think asking the why and wherefores about their behaviour is pointless unless you plan to get a PhD in useless bullshit, however the thing I ask myself now every day is why would I put up with bullshit and ongoing sagas which eroded my sense of self worth in the first place. When I get to the bottom of that I will be fully healed and able to move onto a healthier relationship with someone who treats me as I would like.
I am with you, Josie, in that last paragraph (and your whole comment is pretty awesome!).
As for texting – now I find myself using it to avoid intimacy because I am – truth be told – now pretty scared shitless of the whole ‘dating’ thing. I don’t think texting is good for anyone. In fact, I went out to lunch with a guy the other day and he said that he found my texting manner abrasive, when, from my end, I had thought I was being warm and helpful. This made him, I then realised, very tense for the first hour or so of our interaction. Like emails, it’s almost always better to simply talk.
I am trying to be disciplined with myself, and I have made some pretty uncomfortable phonecalls, with the overall purpose being that if I want people to be straightfoward in their dealings with me, I have to do the same.
Finally, I am not sure if they’re related, but the text/email thing seems to feed into this casual dating thing (or maybe just reflect it). I am subconsciously hoping one of my friends or family members finds me a good man who I can hang out with a bit more naturally, because I don’t think I can stomach this dating business. It’s pretty grim. Everyone’s so jumpy and judgmental, it seems – myself included!
This article is fantastic and so so true. Its very frustrating when the guy mainly texts and calls rarely. I hated it and I ended up calling him most of the time. It feels humiliating now that I did that. 🙁
I do feel though texting is a great tool for guys to avoid intimacy – it’s lazy alright but a major avoidance tactic also.
I wont be doing conversational texts with the next guy i meet – i’ll tell him out straight from the start (if he starts this) i don’t do conversational texts and if you want a conversation, you can ring me. And if he doesn’t like, it, so be it. I’ll just be weeding out the emotionally unavailable!!.
When i think back to pre-mobile days: dating was a lot simpler – you would meet a guy and if you got on well, he’d ask for your number.If he was genuinely interested, he would phone you in a couple of days and arrange a date. And if there was no phone call, he wasn’t interested and that was it.
This is what I love about this site. When I was in the “relationship” with the AC, probably 60% of it took place over email. In 4 months, we sent each other over 200 emails and this is while working in the same office, steps away from each other. What disturbs me is that I didn’t really think too much of it at the time – it was fun and flirty and exciting and I was able to read so much into each of the little missives, it worked perfectly for helping sustain my hopeless delusional fantasies. I realized it was a problem when, after 1 month apart, I realized there had only between 2 phone calls and about 10 texts and 30 emails, not one of which expressed the slightest interest in me or what I was doing. I also couldn’t help but notice that I had been very well trained not to contact him out of the blue. I was welcome to respond to him but my attempts to reach out and touch him were met with cool indifference. The kicker and final straw came when I flew to another country to be with him, the relationship was clearly in trouble and I knew KNEW that I could not contact him anyway but by text or email. He could call me, I couldn’t call him. That isn’t a relationship – it’s control. It was how he kept from having the conversations he didn’t want to have. It was how he kept my expectations low. I can see it now but it escaped me in the beginning. Never again.
Debra,
I read your comment and stopped breathing for a second. I was always so proud of myself for never initiating contact with my past EUM/Assclown – but I would let him in when he decided to pop back in and press the reset button – even after weeks or months of not hearing from him. I thought I was so strong for never calling/texting/emailing/IMing him first but it’s just the way he wanted it. And the few times I did initiate contact, he ignored me or was cold. Even after yelling at me for never initiating. The AC had the balls to tell me he hated that he always had to initiate and that “an solicited email, text or phone call would be nice”. I thought he said that because he truly cared but he really just wanted to turn the blame on me and see if I would assume responsibility. Which I did – many times.
I’m seeing a great guy now. We’ve been dating a little over 2 months, see each other regularly and although we’ve fooled around and had intimate conversations, we haven’t had sex yet – I’m almost ready, just a bit gun-shy. But he’s very much interested in me – my life, my career, everything. We’re in contact every day and for the first time in my life, I’m not afraid to initiate although he does it more. And while we don’t talk on the phone much (I hate it and he’s in school at nights), the times I’ve said “call me later”, he’s CALLED not text.
I did hear from the AC on New Year’s Day. After defriending me on Facebook after I called him out on being mean (he called me boring, no fun and lame because, after 4 months of not speaking and him ignoring an email I sent, I wouldn’t let him come over for a booty call), he sent me an email wishing me a happy new year and saying he was ready to reconcile and friend me again on FB because he had a resolution “to mend old relationships he let go astray” but I had blocked him. He asked if I’d reconsider. ” Let go astray”?! He totally recreated history and conveniently forgot the names he called me and that HE defriended me because I had the nerve to call him out on his behavior. I didn’t respond. I still have these weird feelings for him by I know my feelings are for who I WANTED him to be and not who he really is. I also know that when he was in my life, I was anxious all of the time and constantly feeling bad about myself. My new guy makes me feel wonderful and never afraid to be just be myself. I’d be a fool to reconnect with the AC and let this one go.
Thank you Natalie for this blog – it really made me see the AC for what he truly is. I spent almost a year trying to analyze him and make excuses for his behavior – “he’s scared, he doesn’t know what he wants” – BULLSHIT. He’s an emotionally unavailable assclown!!!
@ MerryBeth & Debra, both of your posts are brilliant. Its both fantastic and a bit embarassing to realize that this too is how I was actually being treated. Its fantastic in that now that I’m aware of his game, I see ALL of it, every last attempt to maneuver, deny, avoid, control, delude and game me w/ his crappy, cold, selfish, manipulating behavior. I do hold myself personally responsible for tolerating it, and even worse, turning it in to something that was completely the opposite – I ADORED him!! On the other hand, I feel like I was pretty much manipulated. Like he was carefully maneuvering me with all the things NML writes about (hot/cold, drip feed, silent treatment, text based communications, selfish shoulder to cry on, emotional airbag treatment, you are my soul mate and if only things were different, name it, he did it) and then he’d take me back to compliance with whatever action he knew would work on me when I tried to protest, complain, or even explain what I was feeling. I usually am not at all a sucker that way about people. I feel embarassed now that I am out. What’s also very annoying is realizing that you can’t even SAY anything about your new AC discovery to the AC – because if you say to an AC – “dude, you are a self-absorbed, all about yourself AC, and I am onto you, the jig is up you jackwagon” he would say you’re a raving crazy nutcase and he was a poor, misunderstood soul. That part is too bad. But in the end, I’m super relieved to be out of what was apparently an serious AC coma. They show you what they really are eventually, and then it’s up to us to process that through.
@BreakingBad: you have made a giant leap – i’m silently cheering here.oxoxo.
I posted this:
“I ask myself now every day is why would I put up with bullshit and ongoing sagas which eroded my sense of self worth in the first place.”
The reason why I allowed someone to enter into my life who was going to treat me badly was because I didn’t value myself highly enough to realise that 95% of my life was pretty damned good. I was hooked on the 5% I wasn’t getting such as excitement. I also wanted to be loved even by people who don’t love me as evidenced for their actions on top of that I made the big mistake in believing that because I am sincere everyone else on the planet is the same. WRONG! So with these bullshit scales over my eyes and my delusions about the reality of the world I invited in someone who could take full advantage of all my weaknesses.
I sure as hell got excitement, from being verbally abused by other women, being moved from girlfriend to booty call, being relegated from long phone calls and endearments to random texts and e.mails. To being told that he had left the country to him keeping personal heirlooms left at his home..the list of bullshit is too exciting to list! But that wasn’t the excitment I was looking for!
I don’t think it matters a jot what some assclown did, the fact that you don;t feel good about his treatment is enough. So some asshole didn’t call enough, return calls, uses e.mail too much. The fact he does it and you don’t like it makes him an assclown. However if you then spend time analysing the bullshit and getting your nose in there with it YOU just end up covered in bullshit yourself and being fearful that the whole world is covererd in the stuff!
Its really about You not him! Why did you allow him in when you felt wrong about some of his actions? Why did you persist in chasing something that wasn’t being given? Why did you make excuses for not seeing someone as they really are instead of how you would really like them to be? What did this assclown really bring to your life that you could get safely and healthily else where? These for me were the real questions to answer.
If I want excitement in the future I will jump out of planes with no parachute..in fact that’s what I did lol!!
Lazy communication = lazy relationship.
One of the worst things a Woman can do when she is with Me is have a mobile phone either stuck in her hand texting away or glued to her ear. It’s a fast goodbye and next please. I like My relationships to be HUMAN!
Sadly in this world where we have more means of “Communication” with each other in the Western world we are actually losing the “Natural Social Skills” of Human Communication,
I spent over 12 years as a Detached Youth Worker on the streets of the city. I could have young people tell Me everything there was to know about Playstations, Mobile phones, computers etc, etc…..
But when it actually come to Human Beings and real “Communication” skills they sucked.
So much of what Natalie has mentioned here it actual a reflection of a bigger problem in our societies. The technology is getting “Smarter” as Human Beings are getting “Dumber” and I mean this for both men and women.
Most Human Communication is NON-VERBAL. It is only about 20% of Human Communication that is by Word…………Language!
The rest is Non Verbal………………..Our Bodies………..The Animal. And most people are stuck in their Heads in “La La Land” (True Natalie…..La La Land) and Yes “Lazy” and lack real Social skills to “Communicate.”
When I ant to get to know a Woman I want to meet up with her as soon as possible…………I set the tone from the start. And when I meet up with her I am checking her out in ALL ways. Appearance, how she moves, how she conducts her self, tone of voice, personality, intelligence, sex appeal, qualities…………Actually physical Beauty is down the list. And I LISTEN and WATCH far more than I talk. I ACTUALLY want to KNOW the Woman she is.
Conversation is a SKILL and You will only develop that skill and become more confident with Members of the other sex. By actually using them with REAL people in REAL situations. Not in La La Land and cyber space.
And Ladies please take this advice. it is something now I teach women. Because it is one of the BIGGEST Complaints I hear from Men.
If you are with a Man and he has made the effort to be with YOU.
SWITCH THE DAM MOBILE PHONE OFF!
I know one of the Biggest complaints from women is about men and the TV…………Well Ladies this is the Guy equivalent………….Mobile Phones!
I have seen it so often…………Man and Woman…………Guy might as well not be there……………She has her mobile phone out either texting away or attached to her ear. And young women are the worst one’s for this.
I will relate a story from one of My male clients that occurred recently……..I am Coaching him……………..He had meet a woman and been out on dates with her and one evening things had got intimate……..Then her phone started bleeping…………a text message. She then spent the next 45 minutes texting on the phone. Needless to say that when we talked and I asked hi how He felt about that. He was not Impressed. So I advised him to see how often it occurs. Well a week later he was no longer seeing her. She was a serial texter.
So really with all these forms now of “Communication” are we really Communicating with each other as Human Beings? Do We really “meet” each other? Or has it become an excuse to become “lazy” or even on a deeper level use it as a means of avoiding real Communication and Human Intimacy?
And on a final note…………A Hand written letter is far more personal and Intimate than any text message, chat or e mail. It means You have sat down and taken personal time and care to write. It involves paper, ink, effort and thought. And for the person who receives the letter they have something they can touch, read and FEEL!
Last year one of My old girlfriends from many years ago. Who is Happily married…………..Had kept all the Love letters I had wrote her. The poems the pictures the cartoons. And when I asked her “Why?” she simply replied “They are special.”
“In ‘olden times’ (read: pre text, email, IM, Facebook, Twitter, blogs etc), if someone wasn’t calling you and arranging to see you regularly, plus the relationship wasn’t growing, you knew they weren’t making an effort and that they had limited interest.”
There’s a Lot to be said for the “Old fashion Skill of COURTING” and REALLY getting to know the other. Which is becoming a last Art in this push button world of mail order, fast food relationships. Which lack real “Intimacy.”
It’s HUMAN!
Amour
PS I don’t own a TV and I know where the “OFF” button is on My phone and PC.
Ange Fonce
this wonderful article separates the wheat from the chaff …
no one has so clearly pointed this out … which needs to be pointed out since many incorrectly assume that electronic messaging is a substitute for calling/talking/(intimate communication). we know in our bones, something about it is not quite right.
thanks for making clear that: the thing that is not quite right is not having the gall or interest to speak in person. which equals LACK OF INTEREST.
calling/seeing someone is real relationship communication.
now i have new rules to carry always with me in my pocket about what i will accept and won’t. i am also newly armed with regained self esteem since i have new boundaries in place as well, thanks to the site.
i finally broke off a 5 year mess … we used to call when i had no cell and then it disintegrated to texts when i did. gross. i have been successful with no contact, breaking only to respond to his PHONE CALL about having something of mine that perhaps i wanted back. no contact and reading here has righted my ship and i am now aware of the muddy waters i was traveling in and am ready for clear waters where i know the score and am dealing with someone of character … who won’t leave me to muck around in the dark alone trying to grope my way around a crap relationship. never again … but through the crap one i now know what a good one will look like. his garbage did teach me something!
i honestly thought all the texts meant something … today i know better.
a very important issue to have examined at close range.
@Josie
“You fill in the gap between boredom and erection.”
Literally laughing out loud here. That’s brilliant. And that exactly sums up my entire 3-year non-relationship.
Actually, I experienced one of these back in the early 90’s, when the internet was in it’s infancy. I met a guy at a party who was a “computer guy” and he worked for some big name phone company (or so he said). We hit it off, but after that all communication was strictly emails. His phone number was nothing more than a “message” number. He said he was “divorced” but I’m not sure he really was. We saw each other a couple of times in a year. I even bought his laptop after he got a new one, but of course after we made the arrangements to meet up for me to get it, he made an “excuse” and he mailed it to me, and then he made up some address for me to send the money. After I bought the laptop, guess what I found. His ex (or maybe she wasn’t an ex…) wife’s password file. I couldn’t ascertain the password, but I found the file. Did he really think I was that stupid? And for being a computer guy, he didn’t take the precaution to delete that file. That’s when I sent him an email breaking up with him, and, of course, he replied calling ME the crazy one!
Hello Everyone
I am feeling a little weak today and am selfishly asking for a cyber pat on the back. Someone alerted me that the x-EUM set up a Facebook page so I immediately blocked all contact. Phew! Put everything on hi-alert! But that awful pit in my stomach..that he’s ‘here’. As if he joined my gym or moved next door. I did what I could, but I feel very vulnerable today. Like he’ll never go away… Thanks!
Outergirl,
Consider this your cyber pat on the back. Good move being proactive and blocking him! I actually cried when I blocked mine. But I knew it had to be done. It took him four months to even notice.
Thanks MerryBeth! Yes, it is a bit sad too, but I know he’d pop up on mutual friends pages. Yeah ha ha, I don’t think he’s in any rush to ‘friend’m, just snoop around in a cowardly manner.
@Outergirl
Pat.. pat.. pat.. pat… 🙂
Good for you!!
I do believe I was an idiot. He used to call me, text me, email me, arrange to go on holiday with me. Then it all stopped. Then he got mean. Then he managed down my expectations to such a level that I started to call him more than he did me, and text, and email. Boy was I a mess. I let him screw me up good and proper. I allowed this!
I don’t even have to block this Class A pigeon chest assclown bullshitters phone number or email or facebook. He will never contact me because he is so far up his own arse he thinks he’s a God. But in reality he’s nothing but a cheating, lying, self obsessed, viagra taking, vanilla sex OLD MAN.
I used to be an idiot. I’m not that lady anymore!
(Plus I can’t be dealing with a 59 year old with intimacy issues)
thanks for the giggles
@ Leigh
Thank you for that!! How you [accurately I’m sure] described your prize of a man! LMAO! You sound sharp as a tack, you’re not an idiot . The idiots are the ones who did us dirty. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. When you figured it out, you cut him out of your life.
@Leigh, it doesn’t get any better. The one I had a year ago was 62 (would be 63 now, and 64 later this year) and I would definitely say HE had intimacy issues. He was the one who stopped wanting sex. Wouldn’t see a doctor. I think he was using that as a “punishment” to me for some “sin” I committed……. Let’s just say, “Cougartown” is starting to look good…….
I swear JJ2, his intimacy issues were just too weird.
I think what’s important is that the issues are theirs and quite frankly they can keep them it’s theirs to own and us to get away from – fast! 🙂
Can’t thank Baggage Reclaim enough for all of your fantastic advice….I read and re-read daily. I have not managed NC yet but have completely changed the way I see things…..the BS diet has been most effective in seeing what is really going on – that is opposed what I have been imagining wearing the rose colored glass that I am having a very hard time taking off. Today, I got the most pathetic excuses to date email….so bad I was sick to my stomach. He had the nerve to tell me he was sure I was equally as busy as he is. Little does he know I also instituted the matching investment policy! I can almost see the light now – the fog has cleared so much.
What I really would like to know is how to respond/call him on the lazy communication/contact that you talk about in this article. Or is it a moot point with an EUM? I think calling him on it will help me take my power back. If I have boundaries, which I am now instituting, how can I effectively convey to him I am no longer putting up with any more of his BS excuses. I do not want him to think that he has managed me down.
Jennifer
Say nothing, cut him dead. With the ex EUM I did the nice goodbye, I texted (yeah it was a totally-text situation) a lovely goodbye and asked him not to contact me again. A month later he texts “I still love you” and I was dragged straight back in. The second time, I just blocked him from facebook and deleted his no. from my phone. I haven’t heard from in a while. I don’t know how long its been as I don’t even care enough to keep tabs. It’s fab. I think telling them anything – whatever it is – is just a way for us to leave the door ajar for them to come busting back in.
He WILL know why you’ve cut him off. It’s a 90% certainty that women have cut him off before. He KNOWS that he’s just using you. I doubt he will be surprised. He won’t be hurt. His ego may take a ding but he’ll get over it in, oh, about 48 hours I reckon. Don’t worry about him. Just take care of you. Not responding to him or dealing with him is 100% the best way to get your power back.
However, if you have to say something, and I can understand how you might want to to the decent thing (not that he deserves it) keep it very brief and unemotional. Something like “I’ve decided that this doesn’t work for me. Please do not contact me anymore.”
A perfect reply grace. I second all of it. And yes, he will hurt for a bit but not long. I know for a fact that my xEUM was cut off before – and not just by a gf, but by a friend. Their crappiness knows no bounds.
Jennifer,
Show him through your actions! Talk does nothing!!!!!
Is this the only area where you are not being fulfilled? It not, ask yourself why you’re still involved?
Exactly, cut him off, who cares about his feelings?
Believe me, I wanted to write a long letter, talk to him, send a message…wahtever. I didn’t. Instead, I wrote a letter to him I never meant to send, Thank God I didn’t!
I kept a journal, wrote everything down.
Seriously, it’s better for your self-esteem to cut him off, and start having pride, it took a while for me, but I did it!
Good luck!
Regretably, I caved in again and flipped out at an email he sent and managed to humiliate myself yet again. We should both be humiliated…. him at the way he treats me and me for putting up with it.
What it all boils down to is values…. I have different expectations of the person I am intimate with. Obviously he has other thoughts which really serves to put this into perspective for the one millionth time. Since I can’t manage to get away from him on my own I have finally made an appt. to talk to a counselor I don’t care if I have to go into mega psychotherapy I will win this and become the self-loving confident person I once was.
Jennifer,
So glad you’re seeking counseling! 🙂
Recognize that you are only hurting yourself by being in contact. Nothing comes from it, but agony!
Why haven’t you blocked and deleted all contact info?????
NC=No New Pain
Jennifer,
It’s difficult to think straight while we are still engaging. You need time out of ‘the mess’. You get that by not engaging with him. Stop engaging and you will begin to see the situation you are in more clearly. You are perhaps expecting too much of yourself too soon – NC is not an instant cure – it’s the medicine, and you need to take it every day for a while before you start to feel the effects – to feel that it is working. NC helps clears the fog. Until you go NC you remain in the fog. I wish you well!
Had to post it…with BS Diet commentary for your reading enjoyment.
EUM – Sooooo thinking about you.
That’s funny…its ok you haven’t thought about me in two days so why you would suddenly start today??
EUM Hope everything is OK.
I hope you still want to have sex with me and keep stroking my ego.
EUM I am sure you are quite busy, as am I.
That’s why you haven’t texted or email or called…you are probably as busy as I am. Too busy in fact to even send a two second text.
EUM Yesterday we had an Early Release, today a Delayed Opening, both “throw off” the entire schedule/routine.
Way too thrown off to text, email or even call.
EUM Missing Fridays for races tends to complicate/confuse things too.
Makes my day too complicated and confusing to send a two second text, email or phone call.
PLEASE someone just humiliate me into NC contact – and PLEASE don’t hold back in fact.
I don’t think any reply can inspire someone into pursuing (courting, as we used to say) you. They need to want to be with you; this guy doesn’t, even when school is out.
Cut your losses before you’ve wasted any more time. If you need a parting shot, ask him if he thinks the blue dress or the green dress is hotter? B/C you need to pick one for a date. Then cut him off&block all contact. Let him think about how busy you are now. This is only “game playing” if you read his replies.
Good Luck!
Good advice Sara K. I prefer the black dress but the blue dress is good too. Too funny. After 31 days NC, I’m re-gaining my sense of humor with this god forsaking stuff. Perhaps, the black dress with a brilliant red throw would work?
After reading this, I wouldn’t waste any more time!
Honey, why does someone need to humiliate you into NC, I think he’s doing a good enough job.
Cut him off! You deserve a lot better than the occasional text!!!
Jennifer, I know it’s hard but you need to stop communicating with this EUM. Turn off ur phone. Delete his texts so you don’t have the option of answering them. Put ur phone away in ur purse or something so that u are not constantly looking at it. Turn off all text alerts too. If you don’t answer him, it will get easier every day. Remind yourself of all the nasty, unfufilling things he has done to you lately…
Thank you everyone! Now for the hard part….doing what I know is the right thing!!
I agree with the others’ advice. I recently cut contact without any explanation after being made to feel so small and unimportant – as if the world only revolved around his busy life. I was soo angry at the time and had nothing left to say. We had already had several “talks” about some of his unacceptable behaviour, lack of attention and the fact that his actions and words were so incongruent. All this to say that once I cut him off, it was definitely difficult, but at the same time it was extremely empowering. My one piece of advice is to be prepared never to hear from him again. I guess part of me had expected mine to attempt contact – but he didn’t. I still find myself wondering about how he interpreted our ending, and how two people can go from being (somewhat) close to complete strangers. But I try to stop myself by remembering that it’s no longer about him (finally!). It’s about me, regaining my dignity and strength. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I have so much credit for each and everyone of you who are strong enough woman to see that you are not being treated the way you deserve to be and to institute no contact (put an end to the madness)!
My last EUM with the girlfriend (and whom I haven’t seen in the flesh for several months) recently got in touch via email, telling me he missed me and then copy/pasting a YouTube link to a bunch of kittens tumbling over each other.
I’m so thankful for this website, because otherwise I would be completely baffled as to what this behavior means, which is nothing. it spares me the inner monologue that would be going through my head otherwise (he misses me? really? why isn’t he trying to see me? what’s with the kittens?)
Oh Learning, that just cracked me right up. The kittens clip. I mean there really must be some School of Tricks and Tips for ACs.. but hidden to the rest of the world – kind of like Hogwart’s School. The kittens thing is so obviously a manipulative ploy to deceive you into his “sweet, cute, harmless” intentions toward you. Shut him and his pussies down. xo.
I should add – I laughed because it reminded me of the ploy my ex emailed me… a two line, free verse poem, apropos of nothing, that upon first opening I thought was kind of cute, and then I thought, “What, really? Three weeks of silence and then this? No greeting, no update, just this two lines of free verse to be interpreted anyway I liked to mean anything?” a giant reset button where I did all the resetting work. That’s what poems and kittens are! But then what I find hilarious is imagining them hunched over their computers in their dirty underwear and mismatched socks, looking for just the right kitten clip or coming up with the right word for their little poem. Geez if they put even half that effort into their relationships maybe we wouldn’t have a problem! Anyway, all that to say, I wasn’t laughing at your situation, but at the obviousness of these morons.
Looking for the right kitten/poem clip?? I dont think so! They are way too lazy to research that stuff. Its more like some other chick sent HIM the kitten/poem and now he’s forwarded it onto YOU!!!
“I wasn’t laughing at your situation, but at the obviousness of these morons.”
Agreed! I found his attempt to keep me hooked on him pathetic and disrespectful. Oh you miss me, here’s a cute cat video? Wtf? Yes, he can indeed keep his pussies to himself! (That line cracked me up – thanks!)
Learning, Jennifer
if you are in NC and really feel that you don’t want someone in your life you make plans to keep them out. Chatting and replying to e.mails, texts etc, calls is just put fuel on the fire and opening reconnection.
My ex couldn’t contact me by e.mail, facebook or any other medium. He is blocked on all of these and my home phone. I am now going to change my mobile number as well. I don’t want to discuss his contact or dumb ass comments. He is history. Basically this ass clown is out of my life because I want him out. Its over when it is over. Maybe ask yourself why keep the lines of communication open as even a potential if you are in NC.
Last year well after 6 months of NC my ex sent me this email “friends?”. He couldn’t even manage more than a word but that’s ok it just made NC even easier.
Ha! ha! Love it.
People need to earn your friendship. That lazy move on both counts, medium and content of message, put an end to that!
Wow this post is as usual right on. My EUM has been overseas for the past two years so all we have had are texts and emails. Only he doesn’t keep up with either one unless he is talking about coming home for a visit. Then he controls the show. Finally,when he said he would only be home for 2 days(Jan 13 to 15) and then off to Mexico for 3 weeks vacation that it really hit me – I was not part of his plans! It was like a kick in the stomach and reality finallyset in. I sent him a good-bye email but of course he texted me the minute he came into town. I resisted all of his whiny texts/emails and didn’t see him. It was hard but sometimes the right things are the hardest as I have learned… I am still depressed and sad but feel a little bit better each day….
Way to be strong!
Agathangel said :
” I resisted all of his whiny texts/emails and didn’t see him. It was hard but sometimes the right things are the hardest as I have learned”
Well done to you. It isn’t easy resisiting a bad habit and this is what responding to situations which are not in your interest actually are. A Bad Habit. When you realise that someone responds to you only when it works for them with no thought to you and your feelings, then you really are NOT on the same page. It’s that acknowldgement that can make one feel depressed. However if you stick at it day by day and focus on YOU with all the extra time you have now you are in NC you will find that the pull of the bad habit gets less and less.
Yes! Agree! I think we identify ourselves with being “theirs” and it’s difficult to recognize that it wasn’t who we were at all!
I feel like the biggest kind of fool there is. I fell badly for a guy who told me from the outset that he didn’t want a relationship as he had been hurt badly and never wanted to feel like that ever again. I knew this but I still went into this relationship with eyes wide shut!
I had come out of a twenty year relationship that ended badly, then spent four years being the emotionally unavailable one in a relationship with a man who really wanted to be with me but who I kept at arms length in order to protect myself and then this. I was the worst kind of vulnerable…not believing in myself, not looking out for myself, not feeling that I was good enough but wanting so badly to believe that I could be. Wanting to try being in a relationship again but so scared of being hurt. I couldn’t believe that this gorgeous, confident man would want to be with ME!! I was the first person he had been with in three years.
I ignored the fact that he had more baggage than Heathrow airport, I ignored the fact that he only rang me once a week and all other communication was by text, I ignored the fact that he told me many times that he didn’t want a relationship. I only heard it when he said that we were compatible, that he was having the best time of his life, that we fitted together well, that he was going to see a counsellor and that he really liked me. I focused on the fun we had together, the wonderful adventures we had and how good it was when we were together. He met my friends, my family, my children. He seemed so into me….when he was with me!
One weekend we went to a party and had a great time. He asked me to go to a wedding with him. Later that night I told him I was confused and asked him why, if he didn’t want a relationship, was he travelling every weekend to see me? He talked again about seeing a counsellor to get over the hurt that he had held onto for ten years! A few days later I asked him if he wanted to come away the next weekend and he said it would be great. A few days after that he rang and said that he didn’t want a girlfriend and he wasn’t going to see me any more. I felt like my heart just stopped, and it hurt….badly. It has been three months now and I can’t stop crying over what a fool I have been, falling for a guy who wasn’t ready to be with me.
I always found the lack of communication and the reliance on texting unsettling, confusing and a bit degrading! I didn’t say anything though as I knew how sensitive he was to the whole relationship idea. I thought that if I played it cool and calm he wouldn’t feel so scared about being hurt again. How wrong I was! All I did was let myself be treated with less than the respect I deserved…. and I ended up being the one who was hurt!
Communication is vital, it is the life blood of a relationship, it is the connection. I will never be such a fool again!!
Amizade
I put myself through 4 hurtful months. He also told me straight up he couldn’t handle a relationship due to past ones, but I went along with it. He was perfect in every way (in my eyes) except that he WOULD NEVER be with me. It still hurts but I had to walk away.
I learned that these men will take anything that is there for the taking, be it a filet mignon or a hot dog, they don’t know the difference. I n the end, they’ll throw up either one then move on to the next meal, with nothing but a mere sigh…
Be gentle on yourself. If anything, this place is a good place to see that you’re not alone. You’re not the first who has been through this. I actually wrote a blog post today about my own relationship like this. Very similar to yours.
You’ll be fine. You’ll move past this.
I resisted responding and got another equally as pathetic text last night…..
EUM I am so tired lately! I really want to be with you. hope to talk with you tomorrow. I miss you.
I think that I am sufficiently done with him. One person can only take so much. Funny thing is if I was to end it with words I am sure his response (contrary to what his latest communication says) would be “I have been feeling the same things too”
Jennifer,
Why don’t you block this guy? You’re only making it more difficult for yourself.
As much as you want to have the last word or try to give THEM the respect of closure or an “official” ending, it never works out that way. We all hope we get a response from them, that this should be their wake-up call. IF they do respond, it usually goes like this: they feel the same way about ending it (making you think you didn’t matter), they try to make you feel like you’re over-reacting/nuts (making you feel that you are over-reacting/nuts), they retort in a snotty/cold/cruel manner (making you think you not only didn’t matter, but also over-reacted and are nuts) or they kill you with silence (then you wonder if they ever got the text and think that you must not have ever mattered and end up over-reacting and driving yourself nuts).
There is nothing as peaceful, liberating and self-loving as the sound of the door of NC slamming shut! Wheeeeee!
Mine made me feel nutz. I did do the NC with no explanation whatsoever but then we had a run in months later when he was with all of his friends and he acutally said to my girlfriend “why does she think that I like her??” Arghhhhh. Talk about just shoving my face in it and acting like I was crazy. Even if they do know what they are doing (and I think they do) they’ll never admit to being the jerk. Their ego’s can’t take it and I had already bruised him by going NC so that was his defense. That I was crazy for thinking he had any feelings for me whatsoever. lol. So ridiculous and crazy making. SO glad to be done!!
MP,
I got a good laugh out of your post!
I think that “Wheeeeee” is the perfect way to describe NC!!!
Just a idea to stop you texting and breaking NC which is working for me. I have put my own number into my mobile and renamed it as my ex’s name. I have deleted my ex’s number. Whenever I am tempted to break NC , I don’t restrain myself sending the dumb ass text but it just comes winging its way back to me. Then I read it and realise what a total ass I am! These texts have made me able to laugh at myself and also realise the terrible one way crapola he was on the receivng end of! I have done the same for e.mails…I just end up sending the e.mails to myself which in effect was what was actually happeneing anyhow lol. This works for me because I get to vent my feelings without opening any door for reconnection.
Funnily enough since my ex has been in an e.mail and text desert since the start of the year, I actually get a call today! That ladies is as rare as hen’s teeth! Jog on! !
I now only check my phone messages twice a day. I am not doing urgent crash team work so NOBODY needs to get me RIGHT now. I am not saving lives here!!! I leave my phone in my car. This way I am not pricked into breaking NC because I am feeling low, unloved, needing my ego stroking or being bored or having the odd randy thought about my ex’s cock!.
Sometimes when you are addicted to activities and people you have to make it hard to respond, this way you are also teaching yourself about your own boundaries. Going NC was the best decision I have ever made to reconnect with ME! Today 20 days into NC I really am feeling I am getting to smell the roses!
Yay!
Josie I love this post! Since I told my guy I would not be seeing him anymore and then started NC with him last Friday, of course he hasn’t called. But I know he will try again just as soon as he gets back to work overseas. We only texted or emailed each other too for 3 years!. Phone conversations were just too awkward on his part! I have deleted him from my phone, erased all our texts, but haven’t blocked him yet from phone/email. A part of me, I know stupid, wants to see if he will contact me again. Hopefully he won’t and if he does, I can go NC. One thing I do know is that I am NOT calling/texting him since I deleted his number. Dummy me, I still miss him tho. His texts were so sweet and loving, you’d think he was madly in love with me! But actions always speak louder than words…. 🙁
Jennifer,
don’t give him the attention and water his needs and ego garden.
His text ”
I am so tired lately! I really want to be with you. hope to talk with you tomorrow. I miss you.”
Is there anything in here that is about YOU? Nope!
Here’s how it reads..” I am so tired lately becauser noone is giving me a drama fix and I really want to be with you so you will stroke my ego and other things. Hope to talk with you tomorrow because that suits me well enough. I miss all the things you gave me!”
Stay strong in resisting responding to this ass clown!
You can’t change an assclown by reasoning with them. Whatever you send to them waters their pathetic egos. If you have to send something to get it out of your system send it to yourself!
It’s amazing that almost 2 years after my ex and I split up, I still feel amazed at how forthcoming my current bf is. The sad part is that we get used to being an “option”. I know, NOW, that I am worth more. But I hope I never stop appreciating the man in my life now… who WANTS to see me and WANTS to communicate with me regularly. Maybe it took my being in a relationship with a Mr. Unavailable for me to really see true intimacy for what’s its worth?
If that is the case, then I am grateful for that experience and even more grateful that I had this blog to read and help me over it.
Thank you.
First off everything in this post makes sense and I agree with it. I have seen this in my friends situations and I can use it for the future. I can even look back at my situation with the last guy or previous guys and learn from it.
However I am thrown off by the fact that I had lots cf communication with the last guy and it went no where and yet it went somewhere with the girl he barely had communication with so what does that say? Just food for thought, this is the question that popped up when I was reading this post? Granted she was hounding him for a relationship I didn’t see us having one at that time.
My Eum always called me alot. He text everyone else and his girlfriend now who then was his once a week encounter. Only had brief phone calls with everyone else. He talked to me so much and saw me in person a lot. I was either on the phone or with him when his once a week encounter would contact him on his other phone so I knew her patterns of when they talked by default. We were always at each other’s house or out somewhere. She wanted more than once a week with him and he complained to me if I wanted to see him less than 4 days a week. There is no way I would be able to guess that he was more into her than me base on those actions.
He called me all the time, and he text on top of calling me all the time and he emailed songs and he instant message me every time he went on the computer and saw me there. I never talk to someone for so much. He would talk to me for hours. Then probably instant message me later, text or email. He would get mad if his encounter girl called him more than once a week. He would only talk to her for a few minutes and he would only call when there was a change in their plans for that week.
We would be talking for hours already and when she would call I would suggest that he take her call because we were already talking forever. He’d say screw that, I want to keep talking, she shouldn’t be calling anyways, she knows better, she can wait. Other times he would tell me he would call me back in a few minutes because he was talking to her and he would.That always through me off that they didn’t talk long like him and I did.
So lazy communication in their relationship led to a relationship.
Proper communication amongst us led us no where. I am not complaining because I didn’t want a relationship. It just confuses me in this post because they had the lazy communication and they are the ones that are in a full blown relationship now. I am only inquiring for next time. I am trying to learn things from his and mine interaction so I don’t get stuck with the next guy but this throws the lesson for me right off.
MH,
I can relate to your situation somewhat. My ex was like that. We talked on the phone, saw each other 4-5 times a weeks, AND he would text me on top of all that. He said all kinds of things that indicated he wanted a future with me. Even introduced me to his family and friends very early on. Talked about plans that were a couple months away.
That was all in the first month, then he started to back off. I so wanted to believe his interest was genuine, but looking back at the intensity of it, I was feeling a little anxious about it then, and I should have paid attention to that. That level of interest so early on is a red flag. And there were lots of other red flags that I could check off the list that Natalie has on some her posts.
Perhaps the fact that your guy had a “once a week encounter” girl on the side was a red flag, despite the amount of time he spent with you. There may have been others that only you can figure out over the course of time.
And you say lazy communication led to a relationship for them. Really? I mean, he may be with her now, but what kind of relationship could there possibly be when he so blatantly disrespected her by also seeing you, and the way you say he talked about brushing her off. I wouldn’t envy her for winning the “prize”.
The lazy communication is just one of many unhealthy behaviors to look for. Just read through some more of Natalie’s posts.
MH,
I’m sorry, but this guy doesn’t sound unavailable from what you’ve written. Is there something I’m missing?
What I learned is that they might really really like us, but in the end they are simply UNAVAILABLE!!
I stopped beating myself up over the “why” all this happened, etc. It killed me, the anxiety was terrible. I walked away and went NC, it’s true. No new pain, at least.
I still like him, I can’t forget him, but I can accept he is simply Unavailable, and I won’t be his Fallback Girl, it’s just not enough, I’m worth more.
@Miriam,
Your comment below was spot on. thank you. 🙂 and yes, no contact means no more pain. I’ll get there. I am strong; why can I not truly get through to the total NC place that so many of you have found?
Hi Allison,
The guy that I was hanging with didn’t practice the lazy communication with me. That was just one form of unavailability that he didn’t participate in but he participated in others. With her he definately fit the lazy communication but not with me. That is what I was trying to say in the post. There was no warning signs for me that he wasn’t interested via communication. However, seeing both of us girls like Nicole said was how I knew he was not interested enough. We were not together so him seeing another girl wasn’t a red flag for me because I knew what was up. I am more looking for clues to avoid for next time.
What I have concluded is absolutely no more casual situations for me they are too painful. I avoid casual situations right now like the plague.
When I was with him I could see the emotional unavailableness but I didn’t know what it was until I found Nat’s blog. I use to complain to him about it and say you do this thing where you make the person feel you don’t want them around. He said he has a hard time paying attention to people. That he is selfish, and wants people there for his needs but doesn’t want to give too much of himself. He is also a proclaimed EUM and commitment phobe. The key here is we were friends for 4 years before we got involved. We just so happened to get a closer friendship and intimate relationship at the same time so I didn’t really know him. Thinking that we were friends for so long I thought he wouldn’t use me.
Nat and this blog and all of you are saving me. I thought I was going insane, surely he must be into me with the constant messaging and texts for a year plus. Surely he’ll leave his gf, it’s truly just a matter of timing. Of course standing me up/rarely calling/not staying over is normal as we are both busy professionals!
I am successful and smart and I feel like this AC, as he feels me slip away, reels me back and keeps me tethered via text or chat or fill in the electronic mask of communicae. I was NC from Christmas day on…and then last week broke it, and then he called (shocker) and asked me out on a proper date (his words). For this weekend. And surprise, I am messaged this week “our plans will no longer work. Something beyond my control.” no. Everything is in his control. Why can I not get rid of this clutter that is taking up so much of who I AM? He is bad. And why do we all accept ‘bad?’ I’m afraid he’s the only one out there ibsuppose and I don’t want to admit it.
at Brenda,
The AC also did that to me, made plans for a proper date then canceled via text because he had to pick up a friend at the airport??
SO I swore to cut him off then, but I didn’t. A few more months passed by and I made a dateline to go NC which I have kept up.
NC is no new pain as someone mentioned and it’s helped me heal.
Another fantastic blog, addressing a very important issue that is prevalent more now that so many anti-intimacy-but-faking-intimacy tools of so-called communication are rife. It’s really important to keep your standards up and if the first few points of contact with a new potential partner are following the same unsatisfactory pattern (texting or messaging only), it’s really important to address it. Texting is so easy to misconstrue, and it’s easy to get the wrong impression, whereas face to face or actual talking means that you have to communicate well to impress and sustain or develop intimacy. Texting, I agree, is very lazy, and some people use it to say over-familiar (or, I would prefer to say, seedy) things to someone they hardly know, to feign intimacy. In my blog about internet dating (at http://www.harrietbond.com), I highlight the unsatisfactory nature of the communication through messaging and e mail. If someone wants to just keep messaging until the cows come home and doesn’t ask to meet up within a couple of weeks of regular messaging, I give it up as a bad job. Quite frankly, I’ve got better things to do than invest my time in someone who can’t be bothered to meet up with me. They can’t be that interested, after all, and quite frankly I rapidly lose my interest. Gone are the days of trying and trying again. I like your pig’s ear analogy….. perfect!!!
Hi Nicole,
Yes you are right him seeing the other girl was a clear sign that he wasn’t interested enough. When I was first seeing him, there was no other girls in his life, something had just finished up for him. I wasn’t expecting to get involve with him. I was his confident but then he pushed for an intimate relationship and I said it isn’t a good idea but went for it. I went against my own values and boundaries at the time because I hadn’t had a relationship or attention like that from someone I was actually attracted to in so many years that I went with it. I thought why not we are both single and a little adventure won’t hurt. Wrong it did hurt because he was the one that kept saying he wanted to be single for life, that he was very happy with me and our situation, and that I would be the one to move on first because I wanted a boyfriend.
Anyways, the lesson I learned from all this due to learning so much from this blog as well. It is better to be alone, then to be someone’s option only. So next time I will only get involve with the guy that wants a commitment, that way I won’t be with someone who starts adding girls to his life and if he does I get to say sorry were over.
Bare in mind these reflection posts are based on hind sight vision and I did finally did do the right thing and I left him saying that I need a man to myself. So even though we were FWB I left because I wasn’t happy with the situation and that is the only control I had over him adding new girls. In other words, I told him you can add other girls but I am going to subtract myself and I left. I have not seen him since.
MH
Perfect. You sound really clear and succinct. And I love the phrase “adding girls”. It made me laugh!
So true. I went through this for over a year.
I finally realized I deserved better than that.
I refuse to sell myself short….
I never commented before but this post really resonates with me. The last ‘relationship’ I was in was a total quagmire, and I came out of it believing that craving face-to-face time to develop a relationship really did make me clingy, needy and insecure. I’ve been away from it for two years now, but I am still scared of direct communication because I’m so scared of being labelled insecure and clingy. I have no idea when normal, direct communication spills into insecure and clingy. I know there must be a balance but I genuinely have no idea where it is, and to take one step in the direction of ‘normal’ makes me feel clingy, which of course is what he wanted me to feel.
My point is, I communicate at arm’s length and use lazy communication out of fear, and against my will, and not because I want a casual relationship. I don’t relate to a statement that says that if a person was really interested in you, they’d be calling and wanting to meet. I could meet a man that I was really interested in and I would be sitting here crying tears of frustration, not calling, because I’m so vulnerable to being dismissed as pushy, because that has been my experience up to now. If I met a man I was interested in, I wouldn’t dare call or make my interest unambiguous because I fully expect to be dismissed as needy and clingy. I know I give the same impression of disinterest as an assclown, and this makes me really sad because I’m scared rather than callous. Maybe some men are scared rather than callous too.
I feel like I want to say that if you met me in real life, you wouldn’t suspect this of me. I don’t know if that makes it worse or better, but I know that the damage I’ve taken because of lazy communication is ruining any hope I have that it’s worth trying again.
Hi Kit. I get what you’re saying and obviously, should you choose to address those issues, no doubt your communication mode would improve. The fact is, you will create a relationship that lacks intimacy if you are unwilling to communicate which means your relationship won’t progress, it lacks balance, consistency, and of course commitment, so it ends up being a lacklustre, casual styled relationship. If someone communicates lazily and the relationship or lack of one that results is casual in nature, the lazy communication still stands. And yes Kit – you have a limited interest in the person. It doesn’t mean you’re not interested, but you’re not so interested that it outweighs the fear or galvanises you into addressing your beliefs about yourself and communication. You’re denying your needs and writing off even the smallest amounts of communication as needy, and basically, no relationship can happen and actually, you’re likely to be interested in people that reinforce that belief or to project your own fears on to it. If you want to feel different, if you don’t want to continue doing this, you need to address your concerns and maybe the best place to start with that is by talking to a professional.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have chosen to address these issues, professionally, and this has genuinely saved my sanity, but it’s very slow going. I appreciate coming here for reassurance. Thanks again.