It’s safe to say that one of the biggest challenges with dating is truly knowing where we’re at. We get confused by what we’re feeling, thinking, hearing and experiencing and so even though we may not have known someone for very long, we might be experiencing the interaction at such an intensity that it feels like we’ve known them for much longer or that our relationship is further along than it is. Conversely, we may have known someone for a longer period of time and so have it in our head that we’ve been together X months or Y years so this should mean such-and-such, but in reality when we examine the content of the relationship or the emotional, mental, physical and spiritual depth to the relationship, we could be for all intents and purposes, in the early weeks or months.
We feel intensely but we don’t necessarily have the relationship to match our hopes and desires.
I’ve had a lot of intense involvements and funny enough these all coincided with that chunk of my life where I had little self-trust, self-awareness or self-knowledge. Due diligence, what due diligence? If it (the relationship) or I felt intense, that for me was all I needed to proceed, even if on some level my mind, body and even my soul were screaming, “Natalie, you’re in danger girl!” or “Run, Natalie, RUN!”.
Intensity can describe extreme force or strength, or it can be a catch-all for the acute, all-consuming feelings, thoughts and actions that we might bag and tag as “passion” or “chemistry” or “connection” even though the latter three might look and feel like something else altogether in a different context. Intensity makes everything seem heightened and it can also include putting on rose-tinted glasses and the fur coat of denial.
It’s safe to say that things are intense when we are moving too fast in some way and blurring boundaries.
It might be emotionally, mentally, physically or spiritually, or all of these, but whichever way we slice it, we’re moving too fast. We might see it as the other person doing it and in order to match their intensity and not ‘scare them off’ or offend, we are ‘forced’ to keep up, or it might be that we have certain habits that we’re unaware of how they equate to speeding us up so that we’re unable to discern what we truly feel, think, need, want and expect.
Relying on intensity can cause us to mistake control and pain for love and care, when in fact, they’re control and pain.
Stage 0 is where we’ve been introduced online but haven’t met and been on that first date yet or where we have met and/or interacted to a degree but haven’t gone on that first date yet. This is the preamble phase and things need to be pretty light here.
Stage 1 is dating and what I call discovery phase part 1. This phase is about having fun getting to know each other and discerning whether we get on beyond superficially. We might pick up some initial indicators about core values.
Stage 2 is establishing and discovery phase part 2. This is where we have moved beyond dating into a mutually agreed upon relationship. Core values gradually become more obvious and the relationship moves out of the honeymoon phase into establishing a more natural but also deepening in terms of intimacy rhythm. This is a key stage because it’s where we get a real sense of giving and receiving no as well as how communication, conflict etc are handled. Power struggles can occur at this stage if one or both parties are trying to do things ‘their way’ and unwittingly or directly sabotaging intimacy.
Stage 3 is where the relationship is evolving emotionally, mentally and physically (the actions and content of the relationship), not just in terms of time. This phase is about evolving into something more long-term, increasing in commitments and living up to them, and still being on the same team as life’s inevitables like stress, conflict, criticism, loss etc are navigated.
Stage 4 is the long-haul, so this is making and seeing through commitments that indicate that we’re in it for the long-haul and being happy to have that permanency, which in turn deepens the intimacy and commitment to grow together. It’s possible that stage 3 and 4 might happen at the same time because stage 2 is so solid.
I share this with you because intensity isn’t the same as intimacy. The type of intensity that causes problems for you comes about because you’re mixing up the stages.
We can feel intensity with someone who is a complete or almost stranger if they push the right buttons and activate us. What we can’t experience with a complete or almost stranger, or in fact anyone who isn’t committed to being their true selves, to allowing us to get to know them further, and allowing themselves to feel, is intimacy, which takes time, experience and consistent vulnerability.
These are all micro-commitments.
If someone is withholding on the stuff that effectively gives of themselves because they’re afraid of being seen, of being hurt or that they won’t get enough payback, they’re cut off from intimacy because they will subconsciously or even very consciously be protecting themselves. They’ ll fear the consequences of intimacy. Being intense might seem like the ‘easier’, less risky option.
We might experience intimate moments but if there are other factors disrupting this connection, these moments will be more akin to simulating intimacy.
If someone is trying to Fast-Forward us, which is where they push for emotional, mental and physical intimacy in the early hours, days and weeks of dating, they are simulating intimacy and crossing theirs and our boundaries, plus we will be crossing ours if we don’t hold onto ourselves in the interaction and know our line and our limit.
Love, care, trust and respect flows. These don’t need to be forced or sped up because they’re organic, intentional and consistent actions. They don’t need a bulldozer. They’re not the intensity that reflects blurred boundaries and the masking of anxiety, fear, triggers and patterns.
Knowing what stage you are at helps you to manage your boundaries. If you’re at Stage 0, mindset and attitude needn’t be in Stage 4. If it feels as if you’ve known each other forever and you’re thinking Stage 3/4 but actually, there is no defined relationship or you’ve only known them a week, roll back. Equally, if technically you’re in Stage 3-4 due to certain commitments plus you feel intensely about that person but they behave in ways that are more consistent with Stage 1 or 2, you can see where the intimacy gap is arising from.
Sometimes we rely on intensity, not just because we have no idea how to trust (see my posts on learning to trust) but also because intensity is seen as an escape, a big leap from numbness or from somewhere we don’t want to be. For a time we can squash down the worst of what we feel about ourselves but then we feel horrendous on the come-down and/or stuck and flailing in a relationship where we’re wondering how we could feel so intensely about someone and yet be so ‘hungry’ in the relationship.
If intensity has been a recurring theme, evaluate where you have substituted doing due diligence with relying on intensity and where you learned your associations from. Also get grounded in future involvements by asking the question: Why do things feel so intense? The overwhelming majority of people that I’ve spoken to and taught about this, either never considered the reasons or knew on some level but hoped it would work out so that they would be spared from taking action and seeing the truth.
Most of all, prioritise building trust within you because people who trust themselves can trust others from a healthy place without relying on intensity as a marker. If anything, learning to trust you will mean that you see intensity as cue to be more boundaried but it will also mean that you accept no imitations in your quest to enjoy deeper, mutually fulfilling relationships with love, care, trust and respect.
Your thoughts?
I’ll be talking about intimacy in episode 53 of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions podcast (out 14th October). If you would like to get deeper insight on the stages and break your relationship pattern, my online course, The Breakthrough, starts on October 12th.
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Using your stages… I can see that the guys I’ve been with are stuck at….1… while I’ve been thinking that we should be at 3 or 4…. What really pisses me off is that some of these guys talked about 3 or 4 so I believed it could happen. Where were the actions? And why talk about it if you’re not capable of it? I guess I have to also look a bit more closely at myself… I think I need your Dreamer book….
Eboni,
Same here, even for those i have seen for over 6 months, it has been permanent stage 1. Similar to you, they hinted on relationship, by some actions or talking about 3 and 4 and making me imagine a relationship a.k.a fastforwarding, then once i got hooked, they spent the rest of time resisting any progression by going hot and cold.
Another sad revelation is, i think i married my psycho ex husband when still at stage 1. Wow…the things i didn’t know about him, even after 5 years together, it’s shocking.
I hear you both loud and clear on that! The guys I used to date would also promise me the moon and deliver sweet FA. I doubt that what we had could even be considered as stage 1, more like -1!
After 3-4 months of being patient, understanding and hoping that they will take things to the next level, I’d eventually wise-up to the fact that their promises were merely a diversion. A way to placate me so they can buy themselves more time and continue to take advantage of my obvious lack of self esteem/boundaries. Looking back, I realise I should’ve walked away from those assclowns a lot sooner than I did. I should’ve given them the opportunity to prove it with actions rather than being content with meaningless words, but I always felt like I was being too hasty with my decision to walk away. My friends and family would encourage me to “give it time” because “it’s still early days” and “you’re just getting to know each other” – HA!
Why some men feel the need to future fake and gaslight women, I’ll never know, but at least now (thanks to Natalie’s sage advice), I’m equipped to detect the BS and flush them out before they get a chance to do more damage.
Rachel,
Well done on graduating to being quick on pressing the flash button on any sign of bullshit. I have gotten better at spotting the code yellow/ red stuff, i just need to be quick to flush instead on being patient and wait for them to transform.
-1 is accurate assessment actually lol. It’s like even after months of seeing them, you don’t get to know much about them and their true intentions, but only enough to keep you hanging around and hoping for more.
Ashamed to admit that even my exhusband, there is a lot I did not know. Not onnly his psycho behaviour, but important information about himself, his actual family background etc and i had unanswered questions until i left.
Yep, i get what you mean about friends encouraging the hanging around for crumbs. I have learned that whilst they mean well, they sometimes either project their own values, or in cases where they know the person, their advice is based on what they know of that person in his capacity as their friend, which is quiet different from knowing them in dating situation. I recently ended it with a guy, who i met through my friends. They still think he is oh a lovely guy and i should have given it a chance because it was too early. I have known him for about 8 weeks. He once cancelled a meet up, then revealed he spend the next day with his ex cheering her up because her 5 year relationship has ended. Two weeks later, he goes to a holiday with ex and kids, staying at the mutual friends’ beach house, sharing a room. My friends still swears up and down that he is such a kind and lovely guy, just being there for his ex for the sake of kids. Now, I’m all for +ve relationship when kids are involved. However, when it is to the extent that i constantly have to take a back seat and she comes first, I’m out.
Coming back to the theme of the post, i think again,I never knew him beyond the superficial. It was like extended 0 stage with a few elements of stage A, and lots of referrence to stage 3 and 4 to activate my fantasy for the future.
Typo: “Flush button” not “flash button” haha!
Afrok,
At the risk of sounding heartless, I’m glad you liberated yourself from your (ex) husband. In my eyes, there is nothing worse than being with a man and feeling like you only have half the story about them – especially when you’ve been open and honest with them (as I’m sure you were at the time). They’re not being upfront for a reason… usually because it’s some sort of power play (keeping you in the dark, or in your place as some black men still feel they don’t have to explain themselves to their women), or because they genuinely have something bad to hide.
If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years, is that I can’t abide anyone (friends, family, lovers) who either can’t be upfront with me, don’t answer questions in a direct manner, or insists on drip feeding me information. It instantly causes me to feel suspicious and lose trust – much like when a politician opens their mouth.
My hair-trigger flushing technique is a direct result of my hair-trigger ability to rush head first into situationships with losers! It’s my defense mechanism, my way of trying to prevent further heartache after catching feelings for EUMs and f**k boys. The problem I have now, is trying to disable it when I meet guys who are genuinely nice!
Regarding that friend-of-a-friend you were seeing who has this weird thing with his ex, you were absolutely right to flush him and not look back. There’s a weird dynamic that exists between him and his ex – especially if he’s prepared to drop you out in favour of her! HELL NO! That’s unacceptable. Well meaning friends can be the cause of some serious heartache! I have also been cajoled into believing a guy was “nice” because everyone else said so – so it must be true, right? WRONG.
Moral of the story: we need to slow it down, walk through the stages as Natalie instructs, and learn to trust our own instincts and not the word of well-meaning friends and family. 🙂
Rachel,
Thanks for your insight. You are not being heartless at all, if anything you are a bit polite!! My ex husband is a creature with a heart of ice. Vile. Ugly heart, evil. 7 years on, i’m still in shock what hit me. And he won’t go away.
Lol at hair-trigger flushing technique! I love it, and I’m looking forward to a day where i will catch the disease, fully. Better that way than diving head first. No. We already know where we end up with that one! Well done! you have come a long way. It is encouraging to know that it is possible. Though, good luck with disabling the trigger girl, when you are with nice ones :).
And yes, i completly hear you on black guys (without meaning to generalise), when it comes to power games, and not having to explain themselves yet then know you in and out. Though ex husband is Anglo, i have had my own share of black guys attitude, from bfs to people in my immediate family, my whole life. Growing up, my biggest fear was marriage, as a result of what i grew up seeing. Some of them felt the need to remind you that they need to be feared with statements like “Don’t you know? I’m a man!!” I hated it, and i grew up hearing it a lot from male family members, even my brothers. I once told one, “you sound scared you are not, hence the need to remind us.” Also there was and still is, cultural expectation of you as a woman in a relationship, it is dissapointing it is still there to date. I can’t stand it. And experiencing it while growing up, with the devastating results all around me, It has scared the hell out of me to the point where i tend to run very fast upon hearing even a sentence that hints on “I’m the man.” And if they see you are financially independent, the “putting you in your place'” as you have put it, gets worse and can escalate to physical abuse, just to remind you who is the man.
I’m gonna learn to live through the stages, and catch your hair trigger-flushing desease! Though i might have minor symptoms from how i handled this guy who thought i should sit around waiting for my turn whilst he went holidaying with ex. Wow, the balls! I still managed to allow him to jump me to stg 3 in about the third week, though. So i still some big lessons to learn.
Hey Afrok,
Apologies, I wasn’t assuming your ex was black, I appreciate that arseholes come in various shades and sizes. I was just speaking from my experience which has been black/mixed race guys to date. I genuinely think white guys are scared of me! I see them occasionally looking but they NEVER approach me 🙁
It’s ironic how you mention how your childhood had an impact on your relationships in terms of how the men in your family behaved (or misbehaved by the sounds of it!). I happen to come from a long line of single mothers – from my late granny right down to my cousin who is 30 and raising an 11 year old son on her own.
I’ve grown up witnessing how most of the men in my family have this air of entitlement in relationships. This idea that simply by being born male, they’re entitled to unlimited respect and adoration from us doting females – even when they’re failing to uphold their end of the bargain by not holding down a job, bringing home money regularly, being good dads, and generally not being good people.
I hate nothing more than hearing a guy complain that he’s not being “treated like a man” – because often times they’re behaving like fucking children but still demand respect as a man! Sorry sweetie, but I’m not going to tolerate your BS to save your fragile ego. I’m not going to play down my strengths/achievements to make you feel better either.
Yes hun, do try to walk through the stages if you can, and give these guys time to unfold and show you who/what they are all about! Whatever negativity you’re feeling regarding that clown who went away with his ex, that too shall pass in time. It’s important to remember to forgive yourself – you’re only human, we all make mistakes. Try to be thankful that you didn’t invest more into that situation, you got a lucky escape. x
And some of them can actually give the woman a relationship and it still doesn’t mean much yet she is fooled into thinking it does ’cause he’s doing all the right things like introducing her to friends/taking her out all the time. Some women have a tendency to imagine that being called the ‘girlfriend’ is some kind of magical status but it isn’t with these ACs. She’s emotionally involved; he’s not.
I too have recently gone through this. Met online ( It isn’t my ideal place to meet Men however it isn’t very easy to meet Men here) he was a little too full on at first and I had to tell him to slow his roll. His constant texting drove me mad. We met up for a first date and got on really well however I think he thought I would invite him back to my place ( Which I didn’t) and he got a little sulky. Said he would call the next day and didn’t. Started the texts back up on Monday and said he was coming off the online platform as the all the Women except me were crazy!!! He then asks me if I am talking with any other Men or going on any other dates and to top it all proceeds to tell me how a Woman he knows here who is extremely wealthy and has friends in high places is taking him out for dinner for the second time. I’ve not responded since.
Good for you, Igiveup. Sounds like the only crazy one is him!
Rachel lupie- i got the same reaction from folks when i was dating people i could tell weren’t going to give me a progressive, healthy relationship … “oh just give it time”… Um, for what? I knew what i was looking for and i got so good at spotting unavailables and people who just weren’t compatible… And i got what i wanted… I am happily married now (: i see so many people wasting time” just giving it time” when they could be on to someone better. I also have seen friends believing they are at stages 1and 2 when they haven’t passed stage 0. When i was a healthy dater with the self esteem to match, the dating times got shorter… And many didnt even make it past stage 2….then i met my husband.
Tiffy,
I feel awful, read my post, I am that way, but I just lost a guy where for the first time, I didn’t see any red flags, not even code amber until I strongly requested to know if he would live with someone in future and he said no, his daughter is his first priority. I am over 50 and never married, it feels so hopeless…again
did you meet your husband online?
TiffyH,
Your story gives me LIFE! It’s reassuring to know that my keen instincts and inability to tolerate BS will/should eventually lead me to a worthy partner! I am currently seeing someone (approx. 7 weeks now), and things are going really well, but I’m struggling with the whole trust thing. He gives me no reason to mistrust and has been consistent throughout our dealings, but I can’t shake that feeling of impending doom – almost as if I’m waiting for the bubble to burst – which historically it usually does around the 2-3 month mark.
Did you struggle with these types of feelings when you first started dating your husband? If so, how did you overcome them? I want to be carefree and enjoy this blossoming romance one day at a time, but the insecure/hurt girl inside me keeps raising her head above the parapet and making me second guess everything, i.e. if he takes a while to reply to messages, I immediately assume the worst and anxiety sets in. I try not to expose him to my baggage as I can appreciate how unattractive that must seem to a man, and I don’t want him to suffer because of the arseholes who came before him either.
Natalie has covered this subject before – can’t recall the theme off the top of my head but if you search by theme up top you might find the posts!
Hi Rachel,
Read Natalies “It Doesn’t Need to Be So Scary In a New Relationship.” I might have gotten the tittle wrong, but it does cover the situation where we are so consumed with fear and anxiety about our past experiences with EUM and AC to the extent that even when we are dating a new guy, and things are normal, we expect things to not work. We then subconsciously/ consiously don’t allow healthy-selves to fully show up, hence foing\not things so create a self fullfilling prophecy situation.
I hope by reading Natalie’s posts on the subject, and words of support from here will help you in your dating journey with the new guy.
You come across as intelligent, strong, and insightful woman, and always very kind and understanding when you encourage and support other women in here.
All the best. Keep us posted:).xx
Typo: i meant “hence doing/ not doing things, to create a self fullfilling prophecy situation.”
Thank you Claire A and Afrok – I will be reading this tonight for sure! I’m so grateful for the support I’ve received on this forum over the last 4-5 years – it’s been a game changer for me.
Will deffo keep you all posted! Hopefully, he will find my neuroses cute instead of weird! Haha
xxx
For most of my life, until recently, I confused intensity with intimacy. The highest highs and accompanying lowest lows translated into a real intimate “connection”. This intense roller coast I witnessed through my parents, married 50+ years, til death due us part not matter what; I believed that the relationship must be a deep intimate love in order to endure such intensity. So, I too endured the roller coaster, staying “hungry” in relationships leading me to an addition of the intensity. When the dynamic was not intense, I feared the relationship ending and provoked intensity good or bad because only the intensity mattered. Until I learned, like an alcohol or drug addiction, I had an insatiable need for the next “high”… and I paid the price with my esteem and soul. Natalie, thank you for the reminder that intensity is not intimacy. Recovery is tough but so healthy.
Best baggage reclaim post EVER.
I just realised, despite what I thought, the only committed relationship Iv ever been in is with my own child!
Wow.
Help, I think I caused my relationship of one month to be over. Everything was going so well, we were compatable, he was very respectful and sweet. He was widowed three yrs ago and has a 16 yr old daughter who he hardly talks to because she just keeps to herself and studies alll the time. Anyways i asked him what kind of relationship he wanted and he said long term, but did that mean eventually living together, and he said no. He said he doesn’t want to disturb his lifestyle withhis daughter which would go on for a long time if she goes to university etc. I want to live with someone and get married. He said he doesn’t want to lead me on, but he wants to date me, and he doesn’t expect sex either if I don’t want it. I found out he basically had a sexless marriage.
I am so sad, because he is a great guy and treated me so well. I said it might be too soon for him to know, we have only dated a month, but he stood firm. I was so upset, I left his house and he hasn’t called or emailed and I don’t know what to do. I wish I didn’t ask him so soon into relationship because he has not had chance to fall in love with me. I feel I sabotaged, but I also wantedto know. Is it wrong to ask early on what a man wants?
I don’t know what to do now. how can i continue with him knowing that he says he won’t. live with me, but in time he might change his mind.
confused…
Hey, Whatever. You aren’t ready to put on your big girl shoes. You would have preferred to be future-faked, because you like betting on potential. You don’t want honest answers, you want to read between the lines. You want to use hallmarks instead of reality. As in “We’ve been dating 2 months, 3months, 4 months…surely he is ready for me to move in now! Why would he keep going out with me and have sex with me if he doesn’t want me permanently?”
This is why men can play us like fish. Because they can point blank say they are not interested in the same things we want and we will keep trying to change their mind.
Why do you have to turn him into “The One”? If you truly enjoy his company, then friend zone him (meaning no sex, as that will confuse you) and date other men until you find one who wants what you want.
Elgie
You are right about the big girl shoes part, I got his truth, at least as he sees it now and I wish I didn’t hear it yet. Im trying to figure out if I am actually attracting better men and hence growing into those big girl shoes, or if I am afraid and sabotaging by trying to future fake myself and scaring him off…
also, he doesn’t want me dating anyone else, even if he won’t give me what I want. Yet the entire month of dating he was always so attentive and concerned with my happiness….i know its his truth, but I cant see myself being able to joyously receive as i did until now….
Uh…Whatever…who cares what HE wants?? You surely shouldn’t. He doesn’t care what YOU want! No way in hell should you be putting yourself on the back burner hoping for him to change. Stop it.
There’s your issue. Magical thinking….” If I hold my breath and try to be what he wants, he’ll give me what I want if I am just patient enough.” He will never give you all that you want, and over time, he will treat you like gum on the bottom of his shoe, because he won’t have any respect for you.
I had a feeling you were over 40. You think time is running out. No it isn’t. Good things happen to people in their fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties…including good relationships.
“There’s your issue. Magical thinking….” If I hold my breath and try to be what he wants, he’ll give me what I want if I am just patient enough.” He will never give you all that you want, and over time, he will treat you like gum on the bottom of his shoe, because he won’t have any respect for you.
I had a feeling you were over 40. You think time is running out. No it isn’t. Good things happen to people in their fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties…including good relationships.”
This is me. If I work really hard, don’t complain, they’ll accept me. They don’t. As you say, they start treating me even worse. When I finally start speaking up and pushing back because I’ve had enough, I’m treated as if I am the problem (scapegoated) and they exclude/shun me. Treat me as if I’m invisible.
Also, I have to protect my from vulnerability from them because they see it as weaknesses to exploit/condemn.
*protect my vulnerability from them…
I manageto finally dtsrt relationship eifh a family friend a adored .I was bowled over he finally looked my way after he broke up with longtime RX.znow there s my mistake I’d put him in a pedestal not realising I was just s distraction sign there but I was blinketed.
I got involved in all parts of his life for 4 months or so and though because we slept together he was mine .Wrong ..he had been a good friend bug in the time we hobbled along together I realised he was using me to fill bid time. Be wouldn’t commit all he said he was unhappy his head messed up from ptdviod partner .I hung in there hoping until o realised he was still in contact with her.. Too afraid to ask him what was going on we went on few holidays but I knew tbr pull of his ex was killing us.
I was stupid she left him I throught HD was over her..No he was trying to make het jealous punish her .In the end he wanted my friendship it wasn’t me it was him all the crap we hear. intimacy I took tl for love on his part but it was sex.
He said he loved me but I new the secret messages meeting to sort things with ex was because he wanted het.If she was that bst why.
I never had courage to adk had he gone back to her but I think he has .Yes were now back being friends but I feel used dtupif that I pleaded with him to make it working even realising he was seeing her on side .
Intimacy is not love its sex witj our friendship survive no because the day will come I know he will be back with her if not already.
My family say move on and I’m trying but feel used as he hurt me while sorting his feeling out .
Im me and yes I have been used but I deserve better and will meet someone who wants me not be second best.
He’s still part of my circle of friends but I can’t help looking at him and their little meeting the turned off phone sneaky texts and think does he deserve my friendship he knew it would brake my heart why play games .He never wanted me only for company ..so his ex welcome to him .I’m 38 life ain’t ovet
elgie
yes, i should be proud of myself that i got the info i needed now, which is a deal breaker for me and i didnt invest much. i guess i can trust myself by this revelation….i should be happy, like “good detective work!” “you go girl, you saved yourself from another relationship that will go nowhere and where you would turn yourself into a pretzel trying to change his mind, and turn into a bitch because of the disappointment and then where he would say ‘you see, thats why i couldnt live with you’.
yup, i saved myself…..then why do i feel so damn sad, angry and generally hopeless. i ripped up my marriage vision board and feel like all thats left is to throw in the towel……i should be celebrating my good detective work, but all i want to is cry..
Sometimes we can’t help ourselves and. bring friends won’t do.
You give your all abd hope hes doing the same.
It just good having clear playing field we don’t don’t we end up with clear leftover parts of his past relationships. Why can’t men just want you as you went them where s my prince.
I feel that even men I known and loved have lied when we split uo how can they wabtvyiy included in everything and next minute not ..oh hrs back with ex ..
I’m 32 calm cool collected Id rather know than make a fool of myself and have people look in and say he used me to get ex to get jealous then once achieves all the my heads in wrong place its mid life crisis I don’t want commitment .I have issues all the make crap and then he sneaks off and wins his princess back but Intimacy shouldn’t be love but it is if you love them.
My detective skills meant I look for any signs he’s now happy and I can see he is .I know he’s seeing her as I drove passed her house and his cars there .I realise he never stopped loving her .My children patents friend look at me at think I was punishing above my weight I even knew it but I’m a nice owtson he isn’t but I still want him even through he used me us ladies are unique.
So maybe.
Iv friend zoned him now and it’s OK but hurts knowing hrs with someone else and won’t tell me.The pretence of friends means I hurt hes moved on .
So yes I had my eyes opened so friend zone maybe too good for him .He knows he hurt me but less than a day later still sneaking around with ex so in reality he has great qualities maybe popular but used me so and looking back he must have being seeing her while seeing me he’s not really c worth y if my friendship.
Thanks Girls for making me think were worth more and my friend zone just closed I’m beading back to truthful reality .intimacy need to be earned and my black stallion didntvdi that.
Whatever,
Elgie and Rachel’s advice is spot on, i can’t agree more. I don’t have much to add, except, please do not blame yourself for his refusal to commit. You have not scared him off. You have not made him decide that he, can’t commit because it wiIl disrupt his lifestyle with his daughter or, wants to date you with no commitment.
He sounds very clear with what he expects of you if you continue dating. Saying he doesn’t want to lead you on but wants to date you screams sex with no strings attached at worst, or he is being delibarately vague at best, to still achieve the same.
Saying he doesn’t want the sex either if you do not want it, is a polite version of “give it to me at your own risk.” If you hang around betting on potential, i see the scenario of turning into “gum under his shoes,” to quote what Elgie said. So you found out that he had sexless marriage. I am struggling to see relevance of that discovery, but who cares even if it was true? Why was he telling you this? Is it what you’d want anyway if he gives you the relationship he wants?
I think It is a Red flag that he does not want you to see other men, yet he can not be with you. That sounds controlling. He somehow thinks he has that power over you, i hope you do not give it to him. He is not the boss of you.
I get how it can be hard to accept the reality and instead hope for a different kind of truth (the fantasy relationship), hence your assertion on “…his truth, at least as he sees it now.” I assure you, 6 months from now, it will still be his truth. Only with your self esteem eroded to a degree that you will have allowed him to. Unless of course you are stricly friends. I can’t speak on your behalf, but given the same situation, I’d find it hard to be friends straight away.
Good luck in deciding based on what is best for you.xxx
Afrok,
Thank you for reassuring that I didn’t scare him away. On date two I told him I want to eventually be married and he said “you tell a guy that right away” i asked then if he would want that and he answered “only if i found the right person”. his answer had some tone that did not feel right to me. i told him that he gave me this answer on date two and he said he didnt and if he did he must have been blinded.
so after a month he is not blinded, and very scared i will add. he probably isnt ready for a real relationship yet, i dont think that will be his case forever, but either way my heart doesnt want to open eyed go into something i fear, basically a man who doesnt want a full relationship. what he wants feels like fwb, even if he will be monogomous with that
i still cant help but feel i asked the question too soon on one hand and on the other hand, i think he should have a general idea of what he wants, he says he likes his lifestyle as it is and i do not like my single lifestyle anymore, dont think i ever loved it, but i am damn used to it, so it is a comfort zone for sure.
meant to say “you should not tell a guy that right away”ea
Whatever, unless you told him you eventually want to get married…*to him*…then whether you brought it up on date 2 or date 20, you would have had the same answer. They guy wants a different type of relationship to you. Better to know now. Also, from what you said earlier about him having a sexless marriage and he’s not bothered about whether you have sex in this monogamous relationship, that he might have sex issues that he doesn’t want to address.
good points liz, thanks!
Whatever,
It does hurt when things don’t end up as we think they should. As hard as it is, cry it out, pick yourself up, take the lessons with you, towards meeting someone who you are compatible with.
Now, let’s get back to “…I think i have caused my relationship of one month to be over.” Correct me if I’m wrong, have you known this guy for just one month? If I’m reading that correctly, from Natalie’s stages above, I doubt you would have even finished stage 1, getting to know each other. You did not destroy any relationship there. There was none.
I’d also say redirect your “detective work,” to yourself and find out why you feel so attached to a guy you have dated for just a month. Why your marriage vision rests with this guy you have just started dating? He doesn’t even sound like he cares that much about your devastation, for he hasn’t called or emailed.
I’d say , get back to earth. Reach out here for some love and support if you feel down. You will eventually view your story from a much healthier and selfloving place.X
afrok
Again, thanks for the support. I am not attached to him, this the good news, my heart is healthier on that account. Its more my disappointment that another one bites the dust.
It makes it hard to trust in the process of dating at all. I have never found a suitable partner and I am over 50. You think I would have given up by now, but achieving this elusive love relationship is a life goal, one that I deeply want to achieve. and yes, i have been working on my love for myself as well, which is why I am feeling stronger after one week.
He has called, acting as if nothing has happened, checking in with me about hid day. I told him what I was going through, and he reitterated that he does not want live in, not just because of his daughter, he likes his freedom. I said, if you like your freedom so much, how come you talk on the phone with me for two hours every evening? I dont believe him, but its his problem, since his words of not wanting a full committment have closed my heart from wanting to continue. He called again last night and left a message to say hi. I havent returned the call, nor do I care to. not sure i can have him as a friend right now.
the thing that annoys me most, is we had plans to travel at xmas and it has been hard for me to find people to travel with. i have done some on my own, but just more challenging.
thanks all for your support
Hey whatever,
Bottom-line is, he’s not prepared to negotiate/compromise on this, consequently you risk progressing a relationship with someone knowing that you may never get what you truly desire out of being with him. I’d consider this a lucky escape. Be thankful you only invested a month in this and not a year or longer.
As Elgie said, if he’s such a great guy then friendzone him whilst you date around, but only do so with the understanding that it is purely friendship, nothing more.
It’s easy to get caught up in the moment when we want to believe that this is The One because they show potential, but sometimes it’s good to take a step back and really assess whether or not the person or the situation is really right for us.
thanks rachel,
read my latest reply to elgie, it speaks to what you say about the lucky escape. thanks!h
I married a Stage 1. It makes me sick to even think about why, as an adult, I made such a grievous mistake.
I’ve put myself first for over a year, it’s amazing how my perspective has changed.
Life is good, thank you Natalie for pushing me in the right direction.
I married a stage 1 too. Still married to him almost seven years later and I just discover I made a huge mistake. We have two sons together. I also have been learning how to spot fake nice guys that are actually jerks. But I’m too late now. I wish I had learned this before I met him. Lol
Better late than never!
“I also have been learning how to spot fake nice guys that are actually jerks.” Any pointers?
Diane,
I hear you. I married one too. 5 years of marriage, stage 1 still not finished. 7 years after divorce, i’m still paying for it emotionally, physically, financially and with my self esteem. Please don’t beat yourself up, though i should take my own advice. If we knew what we know now, we would not have married them. At least at some stage we grew some strenghth and got ourselves out.
This is the most insightful, reassuring post that I’ve read since breaking up with my boyfriend 7 months ago. For 2 and a half years I kid myself into believing that we must have been meant for each other due to the intensity of our feelings, I’d never before felt so enamoured and into someone as my ex and just couldn’t see me ever feeling that way abut anyone else. An overriding feeling of anxiety, self-doubt and worry plagued me for the latter part of the relationship, causing nasty rows with hurtful comments being made on both sides, resulting in us essentially breaking one another an finally breaking up for the second time. As time goes on I realise that we skipped the fundamental stages of the relationship due to the ‘intensity’ of our feelings and neither of us were prepared to face up to our gut instincts that were screaming at us, that we were in a ‘square peg round hole’ situation. Thank you for this post, it really has helped me put some context to my situation, and helped explain how I could feel so sure about something that fundamentally was so wrong!
Natalie,
This was a very powerful truth to share. Thank you. I realized as I was reading it that intensity came from danger for me. Its based on my father’s lies and violence and I have come to equate bad boys with my “type” though, in truth, I am evolving toward preferring intimacy. But the feeling of intensity equated to passion for me which I made into a permission to do dangerous things and to choose bad-for-me men. It is hard to rewire my innate preferences but I am finding that if I go slow, and maybe even TOO slow, I can discern better what I am really doing. I agree that wiping out my own unease and self-distaste have been a part of this pattern for me. I needed intensity for me to override the distaste of sex (I was incested) in order to get the golden apple of a man’s attention. I see now that only a dangerous, untrustworthy man was worth “going for” because of my unhealed inner girl who wanted to finally fix daddy and make a bad man good. This was a good “aha” for me. You are so brilliant.