This week’s episode of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions is on the topic of anxiety and intuition. I speak to so many people who feel confused because they’re experiencing anxiety at the same time as their intuition is trying to communicate with them. While working on some new classes about distinguishing intuition from fear and ego, I wrote the following:
“If, for example, you’ve routinely ignored your intuition when dating and in relationships, maybe putting libido, fear of being alone, fear of rejection, avoiding feelings, your lack of self-worth and what you hope to ‘get’ from them ahead of your wellbeing and being authentically you, guess what? You are going to feel afraid the next time you date or are in a relationship regardless of whether they’re similar to the past or are a healthier partner. Those experiences and your responses trained your subconscious to believe that you in a dating or relationship situation equals danger, distress, crying and obsessing for months on end. You can’t exactly blame you for being afraid!”
After sharing this with a few clients this week, I felt inspired to share it with you guys in this deep-dive on the topic.
Some nuggets from the episode:
Anxiety is a call for us to reassure ourselves and/or take action.
Fear (including anxiety) and intuition produce feelings in our body.
Our intuition serves us an impression about something without conscious reasoning and knowledge, but we also need to recognise that we have lots of information filed away in our subconscious. These impressions can be triggered by a sound, mannerism, language, tone, the setting and so much more — we’re just not consciously aware of this. This means that can be good, concrete reasons for sensing something that we’re just quite simply unaware of.
In situations where we’ve routinely ignored ourselves, intuition and anxiety are both right to show up.
We put a lot of pressure on ourselves by treating our intuition like a quality controller or fortune teller.
“If you routinely disregard your intuition, although it will still try to communicate with you, it may be difficult to hear it over the chatter of fear.”
“It’s worth considering whether your anxiety is going extra OTT because you don’t typically heed your intuition… Maybe it’s our body’s way of really trying to, in a hyperactive way, force us to pay attention because we haven’t and won’t pay attention to smaller signs.”
Feeling anxious and afraid while dating somebody doesn’t necessarily mean that you need to jump ship, but it does mean that you need to be conscious, aware and present. If you ignore something about the person or the relationship that clearly communicates that you don’t share core values, that you’re incompatible, that it’s an unhealthy situation, anxiety will be there to try to make you take action. Continuing to date or continuing to be in a relationship in the same way that you have previously, doing the same habits that have led you into trouble, will not bode well for your well-being, the relationship or what you truly need and want in the future. That’s what your fear and your intuition are trying to communicate to you.
Sometimes we feel afraid in response to intuition because we’re afraid of what it’s expecting of us. It might be that your fear is requiring you to be something different to who you were in the past.
Sometimes our fear is afraid that we’re going to be who we were before.
Fear [outside of actual danger situations] is often a signifier that you need to get grounded and remember who you are and what you’re doing.
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Amazing! I listened very carefully to this podcast, and as you ticked off different kinds of people who have behaviors or personalities that are unhealthy for us, I realized how many I have already weeded out since I started reading and listening your intuitive wisdom.
As a recovering people pleaser and codependent, you’re damn right some of my former friends got snippy with me when I was no longer at their beck and call. Too bad.
As a woman who takes better care of myself and practices self love, I realized how many friends and family counted on me to be their sucker. When I started to see my value to the world, they were not willing to encourage my growth, because it might ruin their access to me so they could still take advantage of my kindness and generosity. Eff that.
Now I have no family (a whole other story) and few friends, but the ones I kept are golden, and I treat them with love, care, trust and respect– and they do the same for me.
Now that I am Number One with myself, I don’t need to lean on anyone and pray they never leave. Wanna leave? Let me get the door for you.
I feel solid now, like a tree with deep roots.
Thanks, Nat. You’re good!
Karen
on 15/09/2018 at 2:31 am
Apologies, I was commenting on episode 106. I can’t seem to find episode #107 but I’ll keep looking.
Alex Baines
on 15/09/2018 at 12:15 pm
My stomach turns over and my heart pounds when my bloke eyes up other women. He tells me I’m insecure and he won’t leave me – I believe him on both counts. BUT I feel so crap. I tell myself it means nothing but these feelings won’t go away. I’ve tried deep breathing and logic. I’m fed up of this nausea and chest pain. What else can I do?
Julie
on 16/09/2018 at 10:32 pm
Ooh Alex, be careful. My ex did this and never tried to hide it. In fact, I think he did it to get a rise out of me, see how much I cared about him. And in hindsight, I realise it was a kind of “sh*t test”, to see how much crap I would tolerate. Friends told me sure, their boyfriends noticed an attractive woman, but they didn’t look her up and down, over and over again, rubberneck, comment, and then make negative comments about their own partners. My ex would practically fall over himself to get a second and third look. He repeatedly told me I was too sensitive and my intuition screamed at me to leave. A couple of years later I found he had secret dating site memberships, was visiting prostitutes and swinger clubs. When someone SHOWS you who they really are, believe them!
Stephanie
on 17/09/2018 at 10:10 pm
Alex – The fact that you are insecure is all the more reason why he shouldn’t be checking out other women so brazenly. A considerate person would recognize this and either stop or tone it way down. His lack of concern for your feelings and his unwillingness to take any responsibility for his part in this are bigger red flags than all the flirting in the world. The guy isn’t treating you right and whether or not he would actually leave you for another woman is almost beside the point. His insensitivity is worse than his behavior, IMO.
Queen Being
on 29/09/2018 at 12:59 am
Whew!
‘My stomach turns over and my heart pounds when my bloke eyes up other women.’
Your body is speaking loud and clear about how you feel in this situation? Why are you choosing not to honor your own inner knowing?
Even if every other woman in the world was okay with their man, eyeing other women in their presence, this is not ever, never ever going to be okay with me.
If he is doing this in front of your face, what in the hell is he doing behind your back?
He tells me I’m insecure and he won’t leave me – I believe him on both counts. BUT I feel so crap. I tell myself it means nothing but these feelings won’t go away. I’ve tried deep breathing and logic. I’m fed up of this nausea and chest pain. What else can I do?
He tells you are insecure, guess what you MAY be insecure but his actions are still shitty and disrespectful! Him leaving you are the least of your worries, how you feel and what you see and not being able to come to grips with that reality, would be my major concern. It reminds me of the Reggae song by Shaggy, ‘It wasn’t me.’ The girlfriend caught him having sex with another woman and his response was, (don’t believe your lying eyes) it wasn’t me. Boy Bye!
Truth is you don’t believe him, you just want to. If you did, your body would not be reacting like this. This is a great gift from the Universe to deal with you. He is just the teacher in this situation. You know the deal, your body and feelings are telling you the truth, why don’t you trust yourself enough to embrace it and deal with it accordingly. This has nothing to do with him changing, or working thru anything. This is all about you, loving, trusting and embracing you regardless. Choosing YOU. Whatever your fear is, it is a lot easier to deal with it than this toxic situation that is killing your spirit.
I send you lots of love, light and courage.
Namaste
Alex
on 30/09/2018 at 4:38 pm
Thank you for your wisdom and support.
Noquay
on 15/09/2018 at 1:06 pm
Alex
Pay close attention! If your gut is telling you to worry, by all means worry. I too, after being cheated on, would work hard to re-establish trust with the next rship. When I felt anxious about the new guy and other women, I’d diss myself, thinking I’m the problem with my ability to trust. Turns out, the new dude WAS cheating and my gut was spot on. Someone telling you that you’re insecure is a red flag in and of itself.
Alex Baines
on 15/09/2018 at 1:41 pm
Thanks for your reply. So just jump ship then I suppose!
Mildred
on 16/09/2018 at 9:49 am
Please upload Episode 107. My intuition tells me I really need to listen to this podcast about fear and anxiety.
LondonLupie
on 17/09/2018 at 2:12 pm
This has been an ongoing battle for me – learning to distinguish my anxiety from my intuition, and not letting my anxiety get the better of me when interacting with men. Presently, I’m a bit OTT with enforcing my boundaries and following what I assume is my ‘gut’.
In the last year, I have had to ask myself if I’ve been too hasty to dispose of the men I’ve met online. It doesn’t take much to turn me off once we’ve exchanged numbers either. The last handful of guys haven’t even made it it date no.1! Most recently I had to cease contact with a single father I’d been talking to (and was quite fond of), because he just sounded so bitter and hurt any time he talked about his ex/baby mama. The fact that she moved on from him so quickly eats him up inside and he speaks about her with so much venom, that any time I try to mention something else relating to me, the convo always ends up back to him and his dramas. Getting to know him started to feel like a chore and I felt more like a friend who he rants to, rather than a romantic interest (he never expressed much interest in meeting either, just spent 2-4 hours phone calls telling me how bad his ex treated him after everything he did for her blah blah blah).
Seeing as I’m not in the market for fixing broken men, I had no choice but to let him go. I can’t help but feel like maybe I’m being too harsh? What if he’s the love of my life who just happens to be going through some stuff, and I’ve just cut him off like that? I know I did the right thing because I’ve dealt with guys like that before and know exactly how awful things get, but I feel mean for being so ruthless.
Feisty
on 17/09/2018 at 4:02 pm
LondonLupie. Why do you feel so mean? This was air bagging you and as you said he came across as bitter. You also have a safe bet that if he was prepared to mouth off about his ex like that he would do it about you to a n other woman. I firmly believe that if men are going through “stuff” they should realise that they need to sort said “stuff” out and not inflict it on anyone else. The same goes for women. This is how people end up used and become bitter about it.
I have met my share of dysfunctional men since becoming single and in each case they had another woman in the wings so I became an ego stroke, fall back girl you name it. I bombed these men out after one date thanks to my gut instincts. Did I feel bad? No. In one case I never got a date but got this line “I have often found myself thinking about you”. Honestly one man actually said that when our paths crossed after a year. This had me thinking well if I made such an impression how come you never followed through or tried to find me? Answer he had a sugar baby he just didn’t either mention or disclose until 9 months of knowing him professionally. This man also told me I was a woman after his heart. Oh yes I’ve had it all from men. Words but no actions. The right man will move a mountain if he cannot get round or over it for the right woman and this last one was on an ego stroke and despite showing signs of interest he never acted thankfully. He was a pity me man as well with what is known as his one time in band camp feel sorry for me tales.
The last man was very compatible with us having similar interests but he didn’t have the same values and boundaries. I had him sussed as a lothario. He disrespects the woman he is with by only using I and not we. That told me he would do the same with other women. It took him 16 months to go public on FB about her and she doesn’t exist on his professional profile. Was he the love of my life? On paper perhaps but in reality a big NO as our values and boundaries weren’t compatible as I found out. This told me that I need to get to know a man before letting anything progress and I saved my self massive heartache there.
LondonLupie
on 18/09/2018 at 2:45 pm
Thank you for your response Feisty.
I guess I feel mean because I feel like I’m being harsh, and I’m not the type of person to write someone off because they’re experiencing hard times or whatever. Prior to stumbling on BR I used to be the girl who would insist on trying to talk things through with guys to work it out, but as I’m maturing, I just don’t have the energy or time to do that and still come out empty-handed in the end.
But at the same time, I can’t ignore certain behaviours that remind me of past experiences with exes because all that does is make my anxiety a billion times worse than it already is, and I can’t live like that. I’ve come to far to undo the good work I’ve done with my therapist over the last 2-3 years.
I know in my heart that the decisions I make are ultimately for the best, but there is still a lingering element of ‘what if?’ sometimes – especially if I had a good rapport with that guy. I’ll figure this out one day – I hope!
Feisty
on 19/09/2018 at 2:52 pm
LondonLupie I can relate to what you’ve said. I have felt harsh as well but like you have come a long way from the people pleasing, Florence Nightingale, fall back girl I was. Yes I had ‘what if’ in relation to the last man but know in my heart he was a bad bet. I had a lot of anxiety around him as I never knew what sort of person he would be to deal with on the occasions our paths crossed. My gut told me that my anxiety was because I recognised behavior I had been on the receiving end of in my marriage. I know that my gut was right and that for a man to deny the existence of the women in his life is a man who is out for what he could get on the side. Sadly as I’ve got older I’ve just felt the whole dating game is way too much hassle for me.
Stephanie
on 18/09/2018 at 5:40 pm
London – I struggle with those same issues and I understand where you (and he) are coming from. Don’t worry, this man is not the love of your life. He can’t be the love of anyone’s life until he is ready to dedicate himself fully to a new relationship which he obviously isn’t able to do at this time.
The reason he is so angry and bitter towards his ex is because he did not make the healthy decision which you have just made. He ignored, overlooked or downplayed her bad behaviors in an attempt to make the relationship work and now he has nothing to show for it except his resentment. I came to BR in that exact state of mind and I was in no condition to start a new relationship until I stopped dwelling on the past and acknowledged the things I was doing, such as people pleasing and otherwise being EU, that always lead to my being stuck in a dysfunctional relationship. Just because he didn’t deserve to be treated badly by his ex doesn’t mean he doesn’t have work to do.
You aren’t being harsh. You are setting healthy boundaries! This is how you avoid dead-end relationships.
Feisty
on 19/09/2018 at 3:08 pm
Well said Stephanie. I meant to say that in my reply. We need to have boundaries otherwise we get walked over and then get discarded for the woman who has boundaries. I believe that many men don’t go for the woman who might be a challenge more they go for the woman who won’t challenge them because she has a lack of boundaries and will accept plus put up with their bs.
I have learnt to listen to what men say and most of them do let a woman know the sort of man they are. The last man I met, I had him sussed out and then he confirmed what I’d worked out without me asking. I believe he was setting his stall out to jump ship and it was “this is who I am if you take me on this is what you’ll get”. I didn’t want or need a man child with emotional baggage from two divorces who relied on others to keep him organised and clear up his mess. He actually told me he needed people to keep him right (man child), was scarred by his divorces (EU) and wasn’t sure if he wanted to marry again despite being with a woman when all this was said (marking time she wasn’t the one). It was the fact that my ex cheated that saved me as he then mentioned this young woman no doubt because he knew he didn’t stand a chance of having me as his side piece or moving on before the other relationship was over.
It is far better to be alone than in a dead end or unhappy relationship. The problem is that when you’ve been in the dating desert it can become more difficult to keep your boundaries and remain single rather than letting needs emotional or sexual propel you into the wrong relationship. We live and learn.
Noquay
on 20/09/2018 at 10:28 am
Lupie
Congrats for sticking to your boundaries and recognizing a shitestorm when you encounter one. I too, reject some 99% of men I encounter on line and IRL. Been called a snob, too picky numerous times. However, I have a firm grasp of what works for me and what does not, pay attention to red flags, and although I don’t relish the reality of being alone for good, I relish a dysfunctional rship even less. Those past experiences may cause anxiety but they’re also lessons in what to look out for in the future.
MillionReasons
on 21/09/2018 at 2:45 am
Although living, I am not learning much. Over and over again I have returned to this man. All he has to do is make a little effort, and say some of the words that I guess are magic to me. These include how he has changed, how all he can do is ask for my forgiveness, and, finally, how I am the only one who ever understood him.
I think “this time I will be tough”, but I am not. To say this relationship is dysfunctional is an understatement. It has though, been almost four years and I think dysfunction has been patterned in my brain.
Today, (this week we are off), I was again ruminating on how have I disappointed him. Am I not attractive enough, sexy enough, enjoyable enough? And then it crossed my mind that despite all my internal planning on how I can be “better”, I don’t concentrate on all the ways and all the times he has disappointed me. All the lies, all the vacillations, how he is unreliable and undependable.
If I could keep this in my mind for more than a moment: that he is all talk, that he knows how besotted I am with him and acts accordingly…Why would he put in any real effort?
And the anxiety!? Apprehensive about every text, every voice mail, to say nothing of every meeting. He can and does change his tune with every exhale and every inhale. Afraid to say enough because what if right at that moment he is truly on the verge of changing?
Feisty
on 23/09/2018 at 2:07 pm
It won’t happen. Nat nailed it when she said “they didn’t change you just got to know them better”. Time to put the big girl pants on and send him packing telling him why in a non confrontational way so he knows not to bother you again. 4 years of your life wasted on this looser which is time you own’t get back. Back to BR school too. Sheesh.
Not meant to offend but to make it clear that this man is no good for you and you are accepting crumbs like a hungry bird.
SoulFull
on 21/09/2018 at 8:05 pm
Simply in a nutshell….
I never ignore my intuition because it seems to know shit like a crystal ball.
Words and body language, inflection…they tell me all I need to know. Self love helps me step away from the situation without drama.
It’s a PITA but peace trumps anxiety any day of my life.
SoulFull
on 21/09/2018 at 8:10 pm
Just recalling the times I used to carry on regardless of the alarm bells ringing….
I must have looked so transparently broken and insecure to those pissing on my boundaries. I think it was that which helped me take a reality check.
Arora Thorne
on 26/09/2018 at 2:24 am
wow, this episode is literally putting words to murky emotions.
amazing talent, Natalie.
although I needed this 2 months ago.. I actually met someone emotionally available… and over-defended against abandonment anxiety, not used to being in the position of actually clearing someone as a healthy person of interest. hoping it’s salvageable… and a matter of divine timing.
Queen Being
on 29/09/2018 at 1:21 am
Recently, I started ‘talking’ to 2 guys that I met while out dancing with girlfriends. Guy 1 was much younger than me and struggling, not on the same vibrational wave length, the conversation was okay but he never asked me out on a date.
Guy 2 was a couple of years younger, was working on his purpose, the conversation was better and he did ask me out, but I was hesitant. Something about his energy was moving too fast – Love Bombing.
Guy 1 – started talking inappropriately and his number got blocked. No reasons, no explanations, just blocked him.
Guy 2 – crossed boundaries, know him for all of 5 minutes and felt comfortable enough to tell me about me. WTF! You can have your opinions, but I own the definition! When I pointed that out to him, he held his ground and he got blocked.
His unmagical mind fukery was supposed to get me to doubt myself and go out my way to prove him wrong. HAHA, dude really? Pathetic!
My intuition clearly told me, NO with both these men and I listened and followed thru. I didn’t allow my anxiety, neediness, fear or loneliness to allow me to question my inner knowing. Both men showed me who they were, and I believed them the FIRST time. No need for repeated demonstrations or doubting my intuition. I’m good.
Namaste
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Amazing! I listened very carefully to this podcast, and as you ticked off different kinds of people who have behaviors or personalities that are unhealthy for us, I realized how many I have already weeded out since I started reading and listening your intuitive wisdom.
As a recovering people pleaser and codependent, you’re damn right some of my former friends got snippy with me when I was no longer at their beck and call. Too bad.
As a woman who takes better care of myself and practices self love, I realized how many friends and family counted on me to be their sucker. When I started to see my value to the world, they were not willing to encourage my growth, because it might ruin their access to me so they could still take advantage of my kindness and generosity. Eff that.
Now I have no family (a whole other story) and few friends, but the ones I kept are golden, and I treat them with love, care, trust and respect– and they do the same for me.
Now that I am Number One with myself, I don’t need to lean on anyone and pray they never leave. Wanna leave? Let me get the door for you.
I feel solid now, like a tree with deep roots.
Thanks, Nat. You’re good!
Apologies, I was commenting on episode 106. I can’t seem to find episode #107 but I’ll keep looking.
My stomach turns over and my heart pounds when my bloke eyes up other women. He tells me I’m insecure and he won’t leave me – I believe him on both counts. BUT I feel so crap. I tell myself it means nothing but these feelings won’t go away. I’ve tried deep breathing and logic. I’m fed up of this nausea and chest pain. What else can I do?
Ooh Alex, be careful. My ex did this and never tried to hide it. In fact, I think he did it to get a rise out of me, see how much I cared about him. And in hindsight, I realise it was a kind of “sh*t test”, to see how much crap I would tolerate. Friends told me sure, their boyfriends noticed an attractive woman, but they didn’t look her up and down, over and over again, rubberneck, comment, and then make negative comments about their own partners. My ex would practically fall over himself to get a second and third look. He repeatedly told me I was too sensitive and my intuition screamed at me to leave. A couple of years later I found he had secret dating site memberships, was visiting prostitutes and swinger clubs. When someone SHOWS you who they really are, believe them!
Alex – The fact that you are insecure is all the more reason why he shouldn’t be checking out other women so brazenly. A considerate person would recognize this and either stop or tone it way down. His lack of concern for your feelings and his unwillingness to take any responsibility for his part in this are bigger red flags than all the flirting in the world. The guy isn’t treating you right and whether or not he would actually leave you for another woman is almost beside the point. His insensitivity is worse than his behavior, IMO.
Whew!
‘My stomach turns over and my heart pounds when my bloke eyes up other women.’
Your body is speaking loud and clear about how you feel in this situation? Why are you choosing not to honor your own inner knowing?
Even if every other woman in the world was okay with their man, eyeing other women in their presence, this is not ever, never ever going to be okay with me.
If he is doing this in front of your face, what in the hell is he doing behind your back?
He tells me I’m insecure and he won’t leave me – I believe him on both counts. BUT I feel so crap. I tell myself it means nothing but these feelings won’t go away. I’ve tried deep breathing and logic. I’m fed up of this nausea and chest pain. What else can I do?
He tells you are insecure, guess what you MAY be insecure but his actions are still shitty and disrespectful! Him leaving you are the least of your worries, how you feel and what you see and not being able to come to grips with that reality, would be my major concern. It reminds me of the Reggae song by Shaggy, ‘It wasn’t me.’ The girlfriend caught him having sex with another woman and his response was, (don’t believe your lying eyes) it wasn’t me. Boy Bye!
Truth is you don’t believe him, you just want to. If you did, your body would not be reacting like this. This is a great gift from the Universe to deal with you. He is just the teacher in this situation. You know the deal, your body and feelings are telling you the truth, why don’t you trust yourself enough to embrace it and deal with it accordingly. This has nothing to do with him changing, or working thru anything. This is all about you, loving, trusting and embracing you regardless. Choosing YOU. Whatever your fear is, it is a lot easier to deal with it than this toxic situation that is killing your spirit.
I send you lots of love, light and courage.
Namaste
Thank you for your wisdom and support.
Alex
Pay close attention! If your gut is telling you to worry, by all means worry. I too, after being cheated on, would work hard to re-establish trust with the next rship. When I felt anxious about the new guy and other women, I’d diss myself, thinking I’m the problem with my ability to trust. Turns out, the new dude WAS cheating and my gut was spot on. Someone telling you that you’re insecure is a red flag in and of itself.
Thanks for your reply. So just jump ship then I suppose!
Please upload Episode 107. My intuition tells me I really need to listen to this podcast about fear and anxiety.
This has been an ongoing battle for me – learning to distinguish my anxiety from my intuition, and not letting my anxiety get the better of me when interacting with men. Presently, I’m a bit OTT with enforcing my boundaries and following what I assume is my ‘gut’.
In the last year, I have had to ask myself if I’ve been too hasty to dispose of the men I’ve met online. It doesn’t take much to turn me off once we’ve exchanged numbers either. The last handful of guys haven’t even made it it date no.1! Most recently I had to cease contact with a single father I’d been talking to (and was quite fond of), because he just sounded so bitter and hurt any time he talked about his ex/baby mama. The fact that she moved on from him so quickly eats him up inside and he speaks about her with so much venom, that any time I try to mention something else relating to me, the convo always ends up back to him and his dramas. Getting to know him started to feel like a chore and I felt more like a friend who he rants to, rather than a romantic interest (he never expressed much interest in meeting either, just spent 2-4 hours phone calls telling me how bad his ex treated him after everything he did for her blah blah blah).
Seeing as I’m not in the market for fixing broken men, I had no choice but to let him go. I can’t help but feel like maybe I’m being too harsh? What if he’s the love of my life who just happens to be going through some stuff, and I’ve just cut him off like that? I know I did the right thing because I’ve dealt with guys like that before and know exactly how awful things get, but I feel mean for being so ruthless.
LondonLupie. Why do you feel so mean? This was air bagging you and as you said he came across as bitter. You also have a safe bet that if he was prepared to mouth off about his ex like that he would do it about you to a n other woman. I firmly believe that if men are going through “stuff” they should realise that they need to sort said “stuff” out and not inflict it on anyone else. The same goes for women. This is how people end up used and become bitter about it.
I have met my share of dysfunctional men since becoming single and in each case they had another woman in the wings so I became an ego stroke, fall back girl you name it. I bombed these men out after one date thanks to my gut instincts. Did I feel bad? No. In one case I never got a date but got this line “I have often found myself thinking about you”. Honestly one man actually said that when our paths crossed after a year. This had me thinking well if I made such an impression how come you never followed through or tried to find me? Answer he had a sugar baby he just didn’t either mention or disclose until 9 months of knowing him professionally. This man also told me I was a woman after his heart. Oh yes I’ve had it all from men. Words but no actions. The right man will move a mountain if he cannot get round or over it for the right woman and this last one was on an ego stroke and despite showing signs of interest he never acted thankfully. He was a pity me man as well with what is known as his one time in band camp feel sorry for me tales.
The last man was very compatible with us having similar interests but he didn’t have the same values and boundaries. I had him sussed as a lothario. He disrespects the woman he is with by only using I and not we. That told me he would do the same with other women. It took him 16 months to go public on FB about her and she doesn’t exist on his professional profile. Was he the love of my life? On paper perhaps but in reality a big NO as our values and boundaries weren’t compatible as I found out. This told me that I need to get to know a man before letting anything progress and I saved my self massive heartache there.
Thank you for your response Feisty.
I guess I feel mean because I feel like I’m being harsh, and I’m not the type of person to write someone off because they’re experiencing hard times or whatever. Prior to stumbling on BR I used to be the girl who would insist on trying to talk things through with guys to work it out, but as I’m maturing, I just don’t have the energy or time to do that and still come out empty-handed in the end.
But at the same time, I can’t ignore certain behaviours that remind me of past experiences with exes because all that does is make my anxiety a billion times worse than it already is, and I can’t live like that. I’ve come to far to undo the good work I’ve done with my therapist over the last 2-3 years.
I know in my heart that the decisions I make are ultimately for the best, but there is still a lingering element of ‘what if?’ sometimes – especially if I had a good rapport with that guy. I’ll figure this out one day – I hope!
LondonLupie I can relate to what you’ve said. I have felt harsh as well but like you have come a long way from the people pleasing, Florence Nightingale, fall back girl I was. Yes I had ‘what if’ in relation to the last man but know in my heart he was a bad bet. I had a lot of anxiety around him as I never knew what sort of person he would be to deal with on the occasions our paths crossed. My gut told me that my anxiety was because I recognised behavior I had been on the receiving end of in my marriage. I know that my gut was right and that for a man to deny the existence of the women in his life is a man who is out for what he could get on the side. Sadly as I’ve got older I’ve just felt the whole dating game is way too much hassle for me.
London – I struggle with those same issues and I understand where you (and he) are coming from. Don’t worry, this man is not the love of your life. He can’t be the love of anyone’s life until he is ready to dedicate himself fully to a new relationship which he obviously isn’t able to do at this time.
The reason he is so angry and bitter towards his ex is because he did not make the healthy decision which you have just made. He ignored, overlooked or downplayed her bad behaviors in an attempt to make the relationship work and now he has nothing to show for it except his resentment. I came to BR in that exact state of mind and I was in no condition to start a new relationship until I stopped dwelling on the past and acknowledged the things I was doing, such as people pleasing and otherwise being EU, that always lead to my being stuck in a dysfunctional relationship. Just because he didn’t deserve to be treated badly by his ex doesn’t mean he doesn’t have work to do.
You aren’t being harsh. You are setting healthy boundaries! This is how you avoid dead-end relationships.
Well said Stephanie. I meant to say that in my reply. We need to have boundaries otherwise we get walked over and then get discarded for the woman who has boundaries. I believe that many men don’t go for the woman who might be a challenge more they go for the woman who won’t challenge them because she has a lack of boundaries and will accept plus put up with their bs.
I have learnt to listen to what men say and most of them do let a woman know the sort of man they are. The last man I met, I had him sussed out and then he confirmed what I’d worked out without me asking. I believe he was setting his stall out to jump ship and it was “this is who I am if you take me on this is what you’ll get”. I didn’t want or need a man child with emotional baggage from two divorces who relied on others to keep him organised and clear up his mess. He actually told me he needed people to keep him right (man child), was scarred by his divorces (EU) and wasn’t sure if he wanted to marry again despite being with a woman when all this was said (marking time she wasn’t the one). It was the fact that my ex cheated that saved me as he then mentioned this young woman no doubt because he knew he didn’t stand a chance of having me as his side piece or moving on before the other relationship was over.
It is far better to be alone than in a dead end or unhappy relationship. The problem is that when you’ve been in the dating desert it can become more difficult to keep your boundaries and remain single rather than letting needs emotional or sexual propel you into the wrong relationship. We live and learn.
Lupie
Congrats for sticking to your boundaries and recognizing a shitestorm when you encounter one. I too, reject some 99% of men I encounter on line and IRL. Been called a snob, too picky numerous times. However, I have a firm grasp of what works for me and what does not, pay attention to red flags, and although I don’t relish the reality of being alone for good, I relish a dysfunctional rship even less. Those past experiences may cause anxiety but they’re also lessons in what to look out for in the future.
Although living, I am not learning much. Over and over again I have returned to this man. All he has to do is make a little effort, and say some of the words that I guess are magic to me. These include how he has changed, how all he can do is ask for my forgiveness, and, finally, how I am the only one who ever understood him.
I think “this time I will be tough”, but I am not. To say this relationship is dysfunctional is an understatement. It has though, been almost four years and I think dysfunction has been patterned in my brain.
Today, (this week we are off), I was again ruminating on how have I disappointed him. Am I not attractive enough, sexy enough, enjoyable enough? And then it crossed my mind that despite all my internal planning on how I can be “better”, I don’t concentrate on all the ways and all the times he has disappointed me. All the lies, all the vacillations, how he is unreliable and undependable.
If I could keep this in my mind for more than a moment: that he is all talk, that he knows how besotted I am with him and acts accordingly…Why would he put in any real effort?
And the anxiety!? Apprehensive about every text, every voice mail, to say nothing of every meeting. He can and does change his tune with every exhale and every inhale. Afraid to say enough because what if right at that moment he is truly on the verge of changing?
It won’t happen. Nat nailed it when she said “they didn’t change you just got to know them better”. Time to put the big girl pants on and send him packing telling him why in a non confrontational way so he knows not to bother you again. 4 years of your life wasted on this looser which is time you own’t get back. Back to BR school too. Sheesh.
Not meant to offend but to make it clear that this man is no good for you and you are accepting crumbs like a hungry bird.
Simply in a nutshell….
I never ignore my intuition because it seems to know shit like a crystal ball.
Words and body language, inflection…they tell me all I need to know. Self love helps me step away from the situation without drama.
It’s a PITA but peace trumps anxiety any day of my life.
Just recalling the times I used to carry on regardless of the alarm bells ringing….
I must have looked so transparently broken and insecure to those pissing on my boundaries. I think it was that which helped me take a reality check.
wow, this episode is literally putting words to murky emotions.
amazing talent, Natalie.
although I needed this 2 months ago.. I actually met someone emotionally available… and over-defended against abandonment anxiety, not used to being in the position of actually clearing someone as a healthy person of interest. hoping it’s salvageable… and a matter of divine timing.
Recently, I started ‘talking’ to 2 guys that I met while out dancing with girlfriends. Guy 1 was much younger than me and struggling, not on the same vibrational wave length, the conversation was okay but he never asked me out on a date.
Guy 2 was a couple of years younger, was working on his purpose, the conversation was better and he did ask me out, but I was hesitant. Something about his energy was moving too fast – Love Bombing.
Guy 1 – started talking inappropriately and his number got blocked. No reasons, no explanations, just blocked him.
Guy 2 – crossed boundaries, know him for all of 5 minutes and felt comfortable enough to tell me about me. WTF! You can have your opinions, but I own the definition! When I pointed that out to him, he held his ground and he got blocked.
His unmagical mind fukery was supposed to get me to doubt myself and go out my way to prove him wrong. HAHA, dude really? Pathetic!
My intuition clearly told me, NO with both these men and I listened and followed thru. I didn’t allow my anxiety, neediness, fear or loneliness to allow me to question my inner knowing. Both men showed me who they were, and I believed them the FIRST time. No need for repeated demonstrations or doubting my intuition. I’m good.
Namaste