Reader: I’ve been dating a guy for a little over a year and when we first met, he told me he didn’t go out much. I thought that was great since I’m not really into the club/party scene, although I enjoy other activities like dinner, movies, shopping, etc. What I didn’t realise is that when this man (he’s 28, I’m 27) said that he didn’t go out is that he doesn’t like to do anything!
During our first months of dating, I got him to the movies once and dinner occasionally, but that was it. He’s very frugal, so I thought it was the money that made him want to stay in, so I was able to get him to accompany me to a friend’s dinner party and a few family gatherings since they wouldn’t cost him a dime.
After the holidays last year, he completely withdrew from doing anything with me.
On Valentine’s Day he told me he’d take me to dinner at a place that one of his co-workers recommended. I’d never eaten there before and thought it sounded like fun. I asked him if I needed to Google the address or directions, and he said no.
Well, to make a long story short, we never found the place, and I offered to call a friend for directions. He told me not to and asked if there was anywhere else I wanted to go. I named another spot, and he asked if there was anywhere else other than the place we’d agreed upon or the place that I mentioned and I said no. We ended up at an IHOP that still has a smoking section—how’s that for romantic?
When we got there, he kept saying how we were there because of me and that he’d rather be at home watching TV. I told him we should just leave because I didn’t want IHOP. He was determined to give me a Valentine’s Day dinner, so IHOP it was. Following that date, we didn’t eat out again until July! The next dinner date was in September after that.
I have even offered to pay for us to go out. It’s not like I’m asking him for extravagant nights on the town.
I’ve even suggested picnics, free concerts, or anything to give us a change of scenery. He always says no and suggests that I go out with my girlfriends. At one point, he even told me to call an ex to see if he’d take me out because that would be doing him a favour.
He is so weird about spending time with me outside of our homes. We’d planned a date last month, but he called out of the blue to see if I’d be disappointed if we didn’t go out because he’d been invited to a fight party (a party to watch pay-per-view boxing) at a friend’s house. I find out later that this “friend” is his ex-girlfriend. Apparently, I shouldn’t be concerned about her because she and her new boyfriend are throwing the party. I couldn’t understand why, if that was the case, could I not go to the party, too?
The last straw was this weekend when he told me he was going to the strip club instead of inviting me to come over.
But the way he went about it was to guilt me by saying that he didn’t want me to get upset (or have a mood swing as he put it) because he needed some time. It hurt me so bad because he would rather go out and waste hundreds of dollars on strippers, but he won’t even give me what I want, which is his time, not his money.
I’ve read back over this message, and I know that it’s all over the place, but I’m clicking submit anyway just in case it makes it to your blog. You always have such straight to the point insight and I would love to have advice on what to do. My friends say that he is selfish and that I should leave the relationship.
I agree he is selfish, but he does have good qualities, too. Am I wrong to hope that he might change some of his selfish ways? In past relationships, I’ve always been the woman who deals with so much bull, leaves the guy, only to find out that he’s perfect for the next woman. It’s like I make men better for their future mates when they’re just so-so or worse for me.
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NML says: Reading through your email, I can’t find anything great about this guy.
He’s stingy with himself, stingy with his time, and stingy with his money. He’s so tight, he’d peel oranges in his pocket! Oh, that is, unless it’s for a stripper.
Guys who are genuinely interested, genuinely care, and genuinely want the relationship to progress put the effort into the relationship. They invest of themselves and don’t carry on as if spending time with you is some enormous hardship. I’m offended on your behalf that a man would treat you in this manner, but you need to be offended.
It’s not about where he takes you or how much he spends on you, but what does this man want you to do just because he took you to IHOP? Lick his feet? Why is he behaving like you should be eternally grateful because he deigned to take you there?
This guy is not only emotionally unavailable, but I am concerned about his total unwillingness to share in your life. It’s like he has his feet set in concrete blocks. You need a man who is willing to invest himself and the relationship. You don’t need a man who has you below the TV on his list of priorities!
Why are you accommodating his behaviour? The fact that even when it’s something free, and he still drags his feet and won’t get involved, suggests that this guy is not interested. He is keeping you on ice, using you at will, and he just doesn’t appear to care. And as for his pitiful excuse about going over to his ex—yes, why couldn’t he invite you? It doesn’t matter who’s throwing the party. He didn’t see fit to invite you when he easily could have. It didn’t matter that he was letting you down over your arranged outing.
You say he is selfish and that he has his “good qualities”. Well, I hope so because I have to wonder why you’re with someone who treats and regards you in this way.
Why should you have to be so different and accommodating in order to be with him? Why hasn’t he adjusted and compromised?
Always be wary of any relationship that is all one person’s terms. It never spells anything good and is a surefire sign of an unhealthy relationship. This guy controls the temperature of the relationship and he only comes out to play when it suits him. And unless he’s throwing coins at the strippers, he’s not as frugal as he makes out because strippers aren’t for tight-fisted guys.
Don’t allow yourself to be reduced to someone not worthy of effort. At the end of the day, it is out of your hands about what your men do with the next woman. However, when you find yourself in this situation, often your efforts (overgiving) propel it.
Unfortunately, with men that you try to help, fix, or accommodate, they very rarely appreciate your efforts and your ‘return on investment’ never comes to fruition. Instead, he takes his lessons learned to someone else. Or he finds someone who accepts his shady and unavailable ways.
Typically when men behave how you’ve described, it means they are not ready for a relationship.
And even though you are standing by him, he won’t appreciate it. Instead, he’s mentally marking you down for being accepting of a man that behaves as he does.
Somewhere in his pea-sized brain, he knows he is not good enough for you and wonders why you put up with him. He assumes that all cannot be well with you if you are interested in him. Also, men are generally far too egotistical to allow another man to do their dirty work for them. The fact that he’d tell you to get your ex to take you out speaks volumes.
The best thing you can do is let go and move on, but you need to be willing to do this. You need to decide that you are better than this situation. If you are betting on a potential that he’s never going to fulfill or hoping that he’s going to change into the type of man who is treating you better, you could be in for a very long wait….
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Dear Been Dating,
I learned a simpler rule. The relationship is 100% her responsibility (bear with me, I’m not done yet), and it is all on his terms (hang on, I will get there!). His responsibility is to *leave* if it isn’t fun for him.
Think about this a moment – if it isn’t fun for him, he didn’t make it worth her while to care how he felt. Essentially, both have to be enjoying themselves, being connected and interested in each other’s comfort and welfare.
My point? At the very least, your guy is irresponsible. That violates one of the prime rules for picking a mate – disciplined, honorable, loyal.
Once you make commitments, have kids, etc., there are other forces and rules. But you are supposed to enjoy yourself most of the time as you get closer to being serious about each other.
There are a couple of other things that I think are affecting your guy. One is depression. Depression is *not* a mood, or a choice. It often feels like a lack of energy, feels like being tired. And depressed people tend to retreat to their room/home, often with low lights or curtains drawn. The other concern is that certain groups of people – family, friends, etc. – may cause him acute distress, at the treatable, psychological level. Whether the crowds or depression, he may have some deep seated reasons for retreating from social events. Or maybe just bad experiences in school. Performing therapy is a very good and generous thing to do. But you cannot do therapy, ‘fix’ him, on someone you are dating.
Psychological therapists are barred by law from treating family or close friends. The risk for you is even simpler – change is chaotic. He needs help to accommodate a more worldly social life. That is a change. Change is painful, it always requires a ‘little death’, a clearing away of part or all of the previous life (this is one of the burdens of starting a diet, quitting cigarettes). You will be the instituting change, making you the villain causing pain.
And while you may actually get him to change – no one can predict just what the change will be. You won’t know until the change if you will even *welcome* that particular change. But the odds of him still liking you are pretty low.
Which brings us back to NML’s ‘you can’t change him’.
You should have known in the first month that his social values, his interest in leaving the house (bedroom?) are about nil. And you should have wished him well and gone your own way. Which would still be about the most positive, wisest thing you can do. Your sole alternative is to become a hermit, and closet up with the dude – but you would have to change to do that, go through the pain, and might not like him or yourself afterward.
Wish him well. Move on.
Luck.
I was in a relationship for a year which ran on a very similar level. My boyfriend suffered clinical depression and it made him extremely unwilling to give to me or to our relationship. He was often very unwilling to make plans, long term or otherwise, and his promises to go away on holiday and even for a night out never came to much as his inibility or even refusal to plan anything ensured we never actually did anything! More often than not his excuses was always lack of funds related, but he seemed to have no problem on spending money on himself or his family. Even my birthday present – a trip to Toronto, fell apart days before we were due to fly because he actually hadn’t bothered to book the flights ahead and obviously 48 hours notice is either going to leave with you a hefty bill or a fully booked plane!
Anyway, after a year of this type of behaviour and suffering at the hands of his neglect, I started to feel isolated and unloved. But moreover I knew I’d lost my own self worth. I was so busy trying to ‘fix’ him, I accepted his neglect, his mood swings, his general disinterest in our relationship. Yet at the same time he was terribly dependent on me for pretty much everything. It was take, take, take with him and I got absolutely nothing in return.
I made the decision to leave. That was four months ago. It’s been a battle trying to re-build my battered self confidence but I’m getting there, and i’m glad I made the jump. No man should ever make you feel worthless, the biggest thing you can do for yourself is to leave. I’m sorry, but he won’t change. It’s clear he’s not ready to comitt to the relationship, underlying issues within himself will make him unavaiable to you and probably to the next girl. You can’t put your life on hold hoping you can fix him, because only he can do that.
I agree about the need to leave. Whatever the “good qualities” of this guy may be, they’d have to be darned good to outweigh his lousy treatment of her, and I doubt they do, or she wouldn’t have posted asking for advice.
Brad, while the situation you describe (Depression) is a very real problem in many cases (and sounds like it was very real for Lex), I think you’re wrong about this particular one. Notice that the guy is not completely unwilling to go out and “have fun” – he was perfectly happy to go to his ex-girlfriend’s party, and to the strip club. He is simply unwilling to go out and have fun WITH THE GIRL HE’S SUPPOSED TO BE DATING. Sounds to me like she’s conenient for sex and an ego stroke, but he can’t be bothered to “waste” any sort of actual effort on her.
Dear Writer,
You deserve better. It may seem to you that when you fix these guys up then they’re “perfect” for the next girl, but remember that perfect for her may not be the same as perfect for you. The other girl may just be more willing to ignore the crap, OR doesn’t put up with any of it, and that may be what really holds him. In any case, keep in mind that while you’re holding on to this schmuck, it’s quite possible that the really right for you guys are walking past, because you’re not available…
I say leave, give yourself a little time to heal and learn to value yourself, then when you’re ready, let one of the good guys in. Best of Luck, girl.
*convenient (typo above – sorry!)
I think your boyfriend is an ax murderer and you should get rid of him. He is hiding out. Or he is just a weird nut and you still should leave him. You are not compatible in any way. I have not long spill for you because the solution is very simple. According to Anne of the Weakest Link “Remove the idiot!”
Eject the dead mouse!”
joyangel123
http://gatesofrighteousness.blogspot.com
I’ve recently gotten out of a relationship that has many similarities to the writer of this question/post. What kept me in my relationship was that when we were together we had so much fun, such a connection and truly seemed to be great friends. While he wasn’t a cheapskate – he was stingy with himself and his time and incredibly unreliable.
It hurt immensely when I realized that his actions were saying that he doesn’t think I am worth more of an effort. But it is very true, just because someone thinks that doesn’t not mean that their thinking is just. What it did mean is that my guy was not for me and this guy you describe is not for you.
I also fret about the fact that he’ll fall in love and be very good to the next girl that comes around. Yes – that stings. But – I just keep telling myself that it is of no concern to me because he is OUT of my life. Unfortunately he works at my company so I have to see him now and then. But we do not have to work with each other on the same transactions so it’s easy to avoid him. However, the idea that he’s there, in the same building does make things difficult.
In any event, what you can learn from this and what I have learned is that if a guy doesn’t start making an effort within the first month or two – he’s not going to come around. And it’s true – if we put up with it – it’s like we are endorsing their behavior and maybe they do question if we are worth it because we put up with it. I frankly, don’t think either my ex or your soon to be ex is that deep – I think they are selfish children and are really only thinking of themselves.
Good luck – there is someone better out there for you!
I wrote the intitial letter and I’d like to thank everyone for their comments and NML for posting my letter and her comments, too. I’m glad that men and women responded and that Ashley (#6) can relate to the situation and it seems like you see where I’m coming from. Just to let everyone know I told the guy it’s over and while he still calls I’m standing my ground. I guess I just needed to see the situation for what it really is and move on. It’s sad that it took a stranger from across the pond and others on the Internet for me to get to this point.
Dear writer this is a classic….and I have played this part a few times myself…especially the part about leaving the guy and he somehow miraculously finds it in himself to commit to the next woman. However, I realize that I didn’t cure them or change them…they chose to be that type of man with that woman…just not me and thats okay because now a great man getting a wonderful woman and I get a chance to be happy and make someone else happy who tells me daily that he is. This will happen to you too one day…but not until you lose these loosers. Having been single for 20 years I have learned recently to have a zero tolerance. I labored over a fool for 6 months who blew hot and cold. I do believe he really wanted to try but just was paralyzed. So I got my fill told him about himself and promptly bounced. So should you…forget about the time in…if you had a job that sucked would you stay…regardless of the time in? No probably not. So why stay with this fool…he’s giving you all the info you need to know to go…so get to steppin girlfriend..and find you a better man…and yes they are out there…they ain’t all Russell Crowe…but they know what to do and how to treat a woman well and want to. You need to create a list of deal breakers and stick to it…if you man at minimum hits one of these deal breakers on your list …drop him. You clearly know something is wrong…and can see where you are at…I think you know what you need to do…wishing you good luck and love.
*Been dating….My heart goes out you..However I think deep down you know that this man is not right for you!!! Tell him to sling his hook and find a man who does want to go places with you because you deserve it! 😛
I DATED A MAN FOR 1 1/2 YEARS WHO PRETENDED TO BE POOR TO AVOID PAYING HIS CHILD SUPPORT. I AM 38 HE IS 56. HE LIVES POORLY AND IS CHEAP. HE LIVES OFF OF A TRUST FUND AND MAY POSSIBLY BE RICH. HE BUYS ME NOTHING AND CAN EASILY GO A WEEK WITHOUT CALLING ME. I HAVE FOOTED EVERY BILL. HE WILL SOMETIMES BUY FOOD BUT NO DRINK. HE HAS LIED AND HELD SECRETS AND LOITER’S TIL ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT. THEY TOOK AWAY HIS DRIVER’S LICENSE FOR NON PAYMENT OF HIS SUPPORT SO HE RIDES A BICYCLE OR HIS TRACTOR. HELP, I HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH A MONEY AND ASSET HOARDING DIRTY MISER!
Kandi, have you asked yourself why? Why did you pick this guy? Why would you listen to him, let him claim your time and energy? There is a reason. You might enjoy his looks, or his maturity. You might want a fixer-upper that lets you feel “good” about “helping” this guy so he will feel grateful to you, and have you for a girlfriend.
The issue is not whether to dump this guy – do, go cold turkey No Contact Rules, because he won’t change – but to figure out why you don’t love and like yourself enough to recognize, and avoid, disrespect.
Seriously. Are you having fun in your relationship? Fun, as in joy in seeing him, hearing him speak, holding him. Fun as in looking forward to seeing him, cherishing time together, and fondly remembering him when he isn’t there. You should have *all* of that, now. No one deserves less.
He is the way he is, and won’t be changing. If you are having fun, then you need to accept the realities of your relationship, and stop complaining. If you aren’t having fun, you need to know why he means enough to you, today, for you to continue to give him time and attention. Because otherwise you are likely to dump him – and pick another that you are drawn to, that will be the same bundle of disrespect and laziness and discourtesy.
You cannot *earn* his respect, not when you are so busy enabling his addictive, anti-social behavior. You are rewarding his discourtesy and financial issues. Because you pay for him, you establish that you do the paying in your relationship. You are continuously training him to continue as he has been doing. Hint: There is little honor in a man that deceives others – such as his ability to pay child support. If he is avoiding child support to spite his ex – that is an emotional attachment of anger, that means he isn’t over that relationship – he isn’t available, and is injured from his relationship with his ex, and hasn’t healed yet. Find someone healthy, and demand a healthy relationship.
Hi I just started reading your posts today and they’re great! I felt the need to do some research on relationships and advice about break-ups or bad relationships. My story is that nobody in my immediate family likes or approves of the guy I have been dating for about a year but I have a blast with him. We enjoy all the same types of fun, both compete in sports, passionate about fitness, party sometimes but not all the time. He cooks for me all the time, does dishes, chores without needing reminders, and is a good-hearted person. We have a lot of good friends in common and he even relocated for me when I got a job elsewhere even though I refused to live together (I’m not sure I’m ready to take that step). Buttt (and you knew thered be a big but) there are some things which throw me off-guard, for example when he sometimes makes off-the-handle comments or is an AC. We can both be ACs and this happens usually when were both under stress and/or provoked. But when we argue it seems most times that he isn’t absorbing any of what’s being said. Or nothing gets fixed. Some of the ideas I’ve read on here have hit home. The idea that he doesn’t necesarilly want to change or that he tests my boundaries or he won’t be appreciative of me even if I am the one who helps him come to some realizations about himself which are beneficial (this may be egotistical of me) he wouldn’t be respectful or he wouldn’t be that “perfect” guy for me but for someone else. At the end of the day I am mostly in control of the relationship and many times he has hurt me it has been to fight back from times I’ve hurt him. But that nagging feeling that he’s not right for me still lingers.
A lot of things are changing quickly in my life and he has a spontaneous allure about him which is extremely attractive because I feel that no matter what I do or where I go, he’ll never want to lose me or be without me. I guess its an ego boost. So even though he does get me angry sometimes, I feel as though I’m still ahead because I have “got” him, we have each other, and can make one another happy. But is this wrong? I feel like we are both procrastinating because although we have so much fun together and are extremely passionate about one another, some core values do not match up and we have decided itd probably never be anything serious. It feels as though we are entangled in a love game.
So what does everyone think? Is procrastination okay, if you want to date this person for right now, even though it can and probably will be a painful break-up down the road? I am constantly examining the pros/cons. Thanks! 🙂