I recently spent an afternoon chilling out with my brother and we decided to watch some ‘trash tv’ so after a bit of Katie and Peter Stateside, we homed in on Judge Hatchett and within minutes we were in stitches laughing as a woman and her ‘witnesses’ stepped up to call a man a ‘lowdown dirty dog’. He had basically slept with each of the women, made out he was their boyfriend while holding down a job driving a truck long-distance (read: opportunity to screw over other woman), and would rent an apartment ‘with’ the woman and then bail on the rent and the bills, clocking up a mountain of excuses and lies en route, all while lining up the next girlfriend to rent with.
It wasn’t the first time he’d been taken to court and he certainly has more than a little woof in him, but something he said reminded me of why it is very dangerous to stick with assclowns and Mr Unavailables:
“If I was really that bad, sure, they wouldn’t be with me!”
Now actually, the fact that these women were with him was actually a reflection of their poor judgement rather than a glowing character reference, but what he said reflects the thinking of many men (and women).
When I have talked about the importance of boundaries, I’ve emphasised that we really do teach people how to treat us and what to expect from us.
Our problem is that in dealing with our own issues, we attach all sorts of meaning to our own behaviour and to that of others, rather than actually take action, and/or getting some perspective. We’re, once again, too busy looking at the trees instead of seeing the wood.
This means that rather than look at a guy’s crappy behaviour and add two and two and make four and recognise that the fact that he is behaving so poorly in the relationship is indicative of his character and his inability to be present, accountable and decent for the relationship, we decide to ignore this information.
Instead, we decide that even though he is behaving poorly, the fact that he keeps coming back means that there must be something irresistible about us, that he must love us, be crazy about us, and can’t live without our ‘medicine’.
We think he keeps coming back because he wants to change but just doesn’t know how.
We decide he behaves like an asdclown, not because he is an assclown, but because he’s a poor little soul that just doesn’t know how to show it but it’s trapped there somewhere within and it just needs the love of a ‘good woman’ to release it.
The reality is that because so many women are willing to welcome Mr Unavailables and assclowns and allow them to stay even when they contribute little or nothing to the relationship and cause untold damage on their self-esteem, these men who are already distanced from the reality of themselves get a consistent message that they’re alright.
They think: Surely, if I was really that bad, I wouldn’t be able to pull women/she wouldn’t keep taking me back/I wouldn’t be able to call up X, Y, and Z and still be able to swing up in their lives after however many months and years without so much as a bye nor leave.
Many of the guys that shouldn’t even be peed on if they were on fire actually believe that they are good catches.
Why shouldn’t they? No matter how much of an assclown they are, they have women pursuing them!
Many Mr Unavailables and assclowns do not even recognise that there is anything remotely wrong with their behaviour.
Why would they? If they are allowed to cross boundaries and don’t feel consequences very often, how are they supposed to see this.
Some Mr Unavailables and assclowns do recognise that there behaviour is anything from inappropriate to poor to outrageous, but they recognise that if you had more cajones about yourself that you wouldn’t be giving them the time of day, so they think that gives them a free pass to behave as they like.
And often, let’s be real, they can do what they like so their assumptions end up being believed to be correct.
Some Mr Unavailables and assclowns do recognise their behaviour for what it is but don’t care to change. They are upfront and don’t go out of their way to disguise their actions but they find themselves with women who believe that with them, they will be different.
Why should he change? There is no impetus to because so far, he is accepted, albeit with half-hearted complaints. Their attitude – you met me as you found me.
All of these guys are disconnected from the reality of their behaviour and most take the basics of human interaction, acceptance and rejection, at a basic level:
If you accept my behaviour in any way, shape or form, then you must be OK with it, which means that I’m not a bad guy, which means you know what you’re dealing with, which means you put your hand in the fire so of course you’re going to get burned.
In their world, people who really are that bad, don’t have women trying to keep them, chase them, and commit them to a relationship.
In their world, people who are not happy with what they’re getting from a relationship leave because when things don’t suit them, it’s exactly what they do… although many of them make sure that they leave the door open a crack should they feel like reopening it and messing around with your head while reaping the fringe benefits of a shag / ego stroke / shoulder to lean on or use….
They’re a bit black and white in this respect which means that all of the energy you spend trying to adapt and morph for them, or trying to get them to change, or trying to understand and accommodate them, is wasted.
You want to send a real signal that someone’s behaviour is not acceptable and that they have crossed a boundary? Reject their behaviour and ensure there are consequences because there’s no point telling someone he’s a poor partner and that you’re not happy, if you not only stick around, but you let him repeat the behaviour and add in some other offences for good measure, and you’re begging him for sex and affection, plus telling him that you’ll always be there no matter what and who he does.
Let your actions reflect your words and if he won’t take action, you have to, otherwise he’ll believe that he’s not the problem.
Your thoughts? Have you considered how your action, or inaction may be interpreted?
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“All of these guys are disconnected from the reality of their behaviour”
Amen Nat. Great post.
Have written about my EUM many times here. I had an epiphany recently and have decided to cut off the sex-we HAVE to work together and are both very invested in a project that has a September deadline.
I told him that because of this, I would no longer be having sexual contact with him-he said, “Oh, stop!” and when I told him I meant it, he said “Come on, you’re just mind-fucking me”. We have had several opportunities to have it, but I’m not interested. Still, he has grabbed my breasts, talked about fantasies he has about me and complimented me on my sexual attributes.
There’s a part of me that is SCARED of sticking to this! I know how dysfunctional it is, but I was sexually enthralled by him for many years and I guess its clinging onto that..whatever it is…that’s making me afraid.
I think I’m relating this to the post above-great food for thought, NML!!-that he can’t quite take in my change of attitude and still thinks because I’m being friendly yet professional, that he still can get me to do him some sexual favors (all very one-sided, I might add)
Can anyone relate or advise?
Certainly with the last Mr EU/The Player, I DID allow him to lower my standards over the shortish time I was “with” him; I DID settle for less (and less); I DID accept other than what I defined a r/s to consist of…
I’m still not sure why (????) but I do have to admit now that this probably says a lot more about ME than him! At least if he is disconnected from the reality of his behaviour (and he is) then he has a valid excuse.
I, who was DISAPPOINTED from the start but who continued nonetheless, don’t seem to have any excuse, other than I was somehow prepared to settle for bad behaviour from a man I was settling for already. Gulp.
Hmmm, even more food for thought from this one, thank you NML.
love, Leonine
Oh and I was on vacation recently and when I returned and we began working together again, he revealed that his ex gf (22 years his junior) had turned up at his door and they had sex. When I asked him if they were getting together again, he said “I don’t know”.
This cemented my decision to cut off the sex and also to re-evaluate my position as his “buddy”. I don’t know what he is thinking when he tells me those things, prolly a heads-up, like”Hey, I don’t respect you and I know you have feelings for me, but we’re not in a relationship, and I can confide in you, so you can act as my sounding-board about my sexual and relationship problems. But I won’t be choosing YOU at the end of it all…so keep off the grass, but get on your knees when I want a bj”.
Ugh.
‘Some Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns do recognise their behaviour for what it is but don’t care to change. They are up front and don’t go out of their way to disguise their actions but they find themselves with women who believe that with them, he will be different.’
Yes this was mine, and I thought that meeting me would make him change, just like my successor believed the same – maybe she still does.
I’ve been guilty of never really laying it on the line with him, for some reason I can’t seem to really tell him how sh*tty his behaviour is. I’ve done the ‘ this is no good for me’ speech a few times but we both know that it’s just been words until now, and I go back.
His current main woman does nothing else except talk about their relationship and give him boundaries, something I never did, but he carries on exactly the same way as always when she’s not around, on some level I think she knows this.
I guess this proves NML’s point, that unless we actually DO something to prove the message, we too are just uttering words, and all they hear is ‘how great am I? They whinge on but always give in – truly I am irresistible’ Plus they warned us in the first place, so it’s all our fault that we got hurt.
I do believe that they will take whatever is on offer and whoever is the best offer at the time, there is no real emotional connection though they can be skilled at appearing to connect. Mine does a brilliant ‘devastated by my wife leaving’ hurt eyes sort of thing, followed by a rueful smile, followed by the most alluring, sexy smile ever, and many women fall for it within seconds.
Despite knowing all this, I still can’t stay away, so nothing I say is backed up by my actions and the message to him is exactly as NML says, plus he’s getting the same from his other woman.
Boy he is such a stud, such a catch – and the thing is – he really isn’t. Please give me an NC drug and a head transplant!
@{ blackgnat, I’ve just read your last post and it really hits home, this pretty much sums up my ‘relationship’ too.
I think the AC knows he can’t have me on almost any other level but sexually I am there for him, and that to him is the most important thing in a relationship (other than being bought anything he wants which I have never done).
I need to stop the sex, which is about all that there is left, and I don;t want to. Oh why is this all so difficult? W”e know what to do for the best and you have done it. I think I’m getting there too, but really really slowly.
sadthing. reread what you wrote
” I do believe that they will take whatever is on offer and whoever is the best offer at the time, there is no real emotional connection though they can be skilled at appearing to connect. Mine does a brilliant ‘devastated by my wife leaving’ hurt eyes sort of thing, followed by a rueful smile, followed by the most alluring, sexy smile ever, and many women fall for it within seconds. ”
lord, tis post and these words of yours are so spot on its uncanny. Regrading this particular post of NML’s, I swear I was convinced NML was the EUM for a minute, because she describes him so perfectly here ; -))
I believe it is difficult to walk away because cannot believe we could be conned, and its so hard to believe it, that we make up anything to sort of save face that we could fall for being conned like this. Fantasy projection to the rescue.
The alternative to buying into the con is to say what you need to say to you, and to him , to get the hell out – so you will not be conned any longer. The prepare to spend some time with many hard truths. Leonine is so right, continuing to be disappointed for so very long, says something about us. Perseverance is not a virtue when dealing with an EUM.
@PlanetJane!
There must have been something in the air this weekend!! I also was in NC (although there were a few minor breaks). After multiple texts this weekend (he started the texting not that it matters – I responded) I asked if he wanted to come over on Sunday and help me with a project in my yard. He jumped at the offer and we spent all day and evening together. I felt exactly like you- holding hands, cuddling, kissing, and such, and as much as I’ve felt like I could hate him for a hundred years before, now I feel like I actually like him a little again — and see some small glimpse of hope even.
He wants me to give him a chance after he screwed up back in December/January but after a lot of back and forth I thought I had convinced myself that there would be no chance. I just don’t trust him! But, I dont trust me either. I’m so confused – I’ve had a few dates with other guys and it’s just not good. I guess I shouldn’t even try until I’m over him but what if I never get over him?!? I guess I was hoping the other dates would keep my mind off him and help me get over him. But that didnt work. And at this rate I’ll never get over him – I’m doing such stupid things that to him — it looks very much that I’ve left a door open and that I want to be with him.
I feel so foolish and weak and confused. I’m angry with myself that I still want this guy. How can that be? What kind of idiot am I?
Ohhhh you guys, I broke NC this weekend big time! It was seven weeks on Thursday. I was trying to delete a draft reply to his text after his B-day, but never sent, and I accidentally sent it! Agh! I hit cancel so many times, but it went through. I was mortified. He texted me back – and as I was writing a reply explaining it was an accident – he called. I answered! He asked me to dinner, in a way that left it pretty open to me. I left it open and we awkwardly said goodbye. Should have been done right there! But then I felt kind of bad, and thought, oh we can be friends, and I texted him back that I would be at a restaurant at a certain time and he could meet me there. He couldn’t get ready in time – and I was on a tight schedule – so we agreed to meet the next day.
I went out with some girlfriends that night, and had a lot to drink. He was on my mind. I called him from my car and he came and got me and drove me back to my Dad’s house (where I was staying) so that I wouldn’t drive. Then he called me on his way home and we talked a while.
The next day I met him at his house and we went to the beach and had ice cream and walked around a while. We went back to his house, he made me some coffee and we talked – we didn’t talk about anything that had happened between us. When I went to leave he said he wanted a hug, but didn’t want to get up – he was laying on the couch. I told him to get up.
Later that day he called me from the store. His battery was dead. I drove by and gave him a jump start.
I turned off my phone last night to charge. I don’t really know what to think. Part of me is relieved I don’t have to hate and be angry at him anymore and ignore him…it took a lot of energy. Part of me started to like him again a little 🙁 And part of me is worried I’ve opened the door for him to set up camp in my life again, and that I’ll have to expend my energy battling him off, or just maintaining adequate emotional distance from this person I can’t trust.
I want him to care about me so much. But he has proven that he just doesn’t. I don’t really now what to do. I already told a friend that if I sleep with him, she can cut off the tip of my pinky finger 🙂 I will not sleep with him. But can I be friends/aquaintances with him? Is that a ridiculous question? It CAN happen. Can’t it?
God I feel like a moron. 🙁
.-= PlanetJane´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
Woah, that is not my latest blog. Where did that come from?
🙂 Sorry. Hmmmmm.
.-= PlanetJane´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
Not to mention, I went through such agony and bitched and moaned for so long, my entire family and all my friends would disown me if I gave this guy a second chance…
@QT. Thanks for replying! Wow, it sounds like your guy wants to get back together? Or together? You don’t trust him though. Do you know what you’re going to do? I know! It is really very hard to let go once you’ve decided you like someone. Especially when they’re willing and seemingly eager to be in your life…somewhat. Only you know what’s best for you in this situation, but you must be on this website for a reason. I don’t recall reading your story. Please take your time to decide what’s best for you.
I did NOT cuddle, kiss or hold hands with my xeum, and he NEVER mentioned that he was sorry or that he wanted to get back together – we were never together!
I am actually ok with the contact…for now. I don’t want to be his enemy, and I don’t want the tension. But I know that we can’t really be friends yet either. I think I’m just gonna take it very slow. The trouble is he always wants to jump all the way in…until I get all the way in too.
@PJ
You said it babe. If YOU want it … rat out of a sewer …
@Butterfly
You’re right. You’re so right.
PlanetJane- I think if you arent completely over him being friends isnt a good idea.Like NML says ” It will be like playing with fire”.You should ask yourself too if you realy want his friendship or if that is a excuse to stay around him and continue emotionaly invested(I dont mean to sound harsh,just want you to think the reasons why you doing that).
“Reject their behaviour and ensure there are consequences because there’s no point telling someone he’s a poor partner and that you’re not happy, if you not only stick around, but you let him repeat the behaviour and add in some other offences for good measure, and you’re begging him for sex and affection, telling him that you’ll always be there no matter what and who he does.”
I been there.I complained to my ex about his behaviour milion times but wouldnt realy DO anything about it.Plus I was always chasing him and beging for his time and atention what made he think that probably there was nothing wrong with him,like NML said if there was why I would be after him so much? I realy hate that his ego is so big but thinking about it my behaviour realy helped him to fell this way.Thanks NML for remind me of that.
Boy, this one has my frontal lobes throbbing, lol.
But it’s really made me think – and this little cycle seems to be falling into place. Let me know what you think (so I can break it to bits, lol):
I love my life and my freedom; but I think that sometimes I might get a bit LONELY and wouldn’t mind a bit of help/fun at the helm.
So, I pick a man I can TOLERATE but don’t have to devote to. A man LESSER than myself, who will surely be grateful I’d even glance his way!
This should ensure my FREEDOM stays intact, give me CONTROL over a grateful man and satisfy my VANITY at being several rungs above him (socially, educationally and physically).
However, the particular man tries to ensure my staying with him by working to bring me down and give himself the upper hand.
This is very INSULTING and leads me to believe he doesn’t understand how lucky he is, lol.
That starts me COMPETING AGAINST MYSELF to be acknowledged for what I am, but actually just has me chasing my tail on the say-so of an idiot for waaaaay longer than I should bother about.
A bit harsh on myself, maybe; but nowhere near as harsh as wasting years of my life on men I didn’t want in the first place. And, until now, I think I’ve been doing some/all of that without even knowing it, because I simply have never been taught about having a relationship until now!
So, my theory about me summarized, lol:
Gets lonely > picks supposedly grateful, controllable partner > partner turns out to be more controlling > I compete (often against myself) for acknowledgement so I can leave him on an Up > end up staying far longer than I want and bringing myself low in the process.
I don’t imagine for a moment I’ve cracked the mystery of why I’ve been such a dork in one sitting, but it’s a start (and a good one) to even be thinking about it in a way that has me and my behaviours in the frame, and not just a blame fest over a pig grunting.
love, Leonine.
Well, I just had someone start talking about the last one and I told them to stop. I thought I was doing so well … hearing stuff about where he is made me feel sick (hell Meant, you are doing so well seeing him). It was the unexpectedness really … but it’s ok. I consider it accidental breaking of no contact and he has no idea how I feel so … its ok.
I have something else to say,I realy fell like breaking NC.I know I shouldnt but the yearning for him is so big that I fell I wont be able to resist sometimes.But I realy cant do that,I cant throw away all the good work I done so far plus I dont want him to know that I still cares.I want him to think Im over him already.He always was so careless to me and I was always showing him how much I care even when he treated me bad or didnt deserve it that I just cant do that anymore.Please girls I need some encouragement words to continue on NC.
Most of you all know my horrific story. I am still trying to get past my married assclown each and every day. I have not talked to him since January. He made two lame contacts by text in February, I didn’t respond and haven’t heard anything since. A week after he discarded me to the street, he was cavorting with his new woman, who happens to live across the street from me, and he lives two doors down from me. This has been an excruciating several months, the worst of my life. My soul has been devastated and destroyed. Very long story, which can be read on other blogs. Not only am I still devastated that I have to see him every day, sitting in his garage reading his book, like he doesn’t have a care in the world, feels no remorse for telling me to my face he has too much shit going on to deal with me and told me NO when I asked to try to talk to him about things. Exact words! I have to see him acting like he has no care in the world. and I know when you love someone you don’t want them to ever suffer. He obviously doesn’t care because he has had months to contact me and talk to me. I have had to endure watching him with new woman on a daily basis. And now I have to see her replace me when taking our kids to and from school each day. Last year, we used to ride bikes or walk the kids to school some days together, and now he is walking with HER and her kids to school. I have to see this every day. I just want to throw up in my mouth and I feel like a tortured bystander who has to see them together….. How can I get to the point that seeing them together doesn’t bother me anymore? She spends a lot of time with him each day and now they are apparently going to spend more time doing the before and after school thing? Some days I still ride my kids to school on there bike and don’t want to see them together or have to “pass” them. I will feel foolish and stupid and he will get enjoyment out of knowing I am probably upset about it. For anyone who has to see the assclown daily and with another woman daily, how do you cope? Because today I am not coping and I feel like more of a loser when I have to see them together, reminded that he didn’t feel I was “good enough.”
All I can say to all those who are posting here is:
It does get better ( you know that feeling inside which makes you want to reach out to the EUM, or missing him so bad you ache all over.)
It does get easier (the longer NC remains you spend time finding other things to do, other people to be with and you will think of him less)
It is all worth it (because every one of you deserves a mate who isn’t an AC or EUM and who wants to build a relationship, not cause drama)
I’m proud to say I have been NC for 12 months – yes I made it through. I suffered a ton, I was frustrated, I was obsessed, I was addicted to drama/trauma/pain, and I spent endless nights of no sleep trying to get through the hell that I was in.
But 12 months later and I have never felt so FREE, so alive and so lovable. I still have much to work to do on myself, so my story hasn’t ended but it’s 100% better than where I was 12 months ago.
So the reason I’m telling all of you is so that you won’t give up on yourselves, so you won’t break NC. I hope you’ll start building your self-esteem like I did, you’ll start setting boundaries with others – like I did, and hopefully stop the negative self-talk that I did. Because I’m proof and that you can make it, and that it does get better, easier, more comfortable without the AC.
Keep going, even when the anxiety is bad and you want to call, or text, or email stay NC. Believe NML, and others who post that the advice, and the information here is empowering.
You’re all getting stronger every day, maybe you don’t see it but you are. You are changing, you are growing, learning and putting all this information into motion, and practicing it— just fake it until you make it.
Be compassionate with yourselves, you’re doing some great work. It’s not easy, no one who posts here says it’s easy but definitely well worth the journey!
Luck!
@ BetterWithoutHim
Thank you for your heartening message to us all. I absolutely agree: it does get better, and knowledge helps that process.
I have to say that (apart from the vanity knock and bruised ego) I’m completely over exNarc and Mr Eu already. I see Eu’s act now on other women as clear as day, whereas I fell for it all at once before.
My purpose now is to understand why I allowed this to happen to me over and over; to prevent it from ever happening to me again; and to know enough about building and maintaining healthy relationships so that I have some useful information to pass on to my little girl when the time comes.
love, Leonine
@Leonine – “and not just a blame fest over a pig grunting.” I love that!! 🙂
@Anusha – “You should ask yourself too if you really want his friendship or if that is a excuse to stay around him and continue emotionaly invested(I dont mean to sound harsh,just want you to think the reasons why you doing that).” – You do not sound harsh, and no problem. I need a little harshness right now! And believe me, I’ve asked myself that question. What I want I think is peace. He is one of my best friend’s brothers. I am not available to him. I don’t know how “contact” is going to work out between us, but I’m going to try to minimize it.
@MiserableLove – I know it seems a bit extreme, but it may be best for you if you move. It’s a hassle, and maybe you shouldn’t have to, but I think it would be a lot more peaceful for you if you did.
My last xeum got his new GF a job at my office – I sat right next to her. It literally tore my heart out everyday. I was always, always civil to her, but I could never really be friendly. I imagined taking a baseball bat to him. I avoided them whenever possible. I began to understand why they liked each other, and I cared for him so eventually a happiness grew for the two of them and their relationship…however small and sad. I feel for you, and wish you the best.
Great post!
“Some Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns do recognise their behaviour for what it is but don’t care to change. They are up front and don’t go out of their way to disguise their actions but they find themselves with women who believe that with them, he will be different.”
In todays world, many of these kinds of men just don’t have class, awareness, or simple education about how to treat women in a relationship.
They can just easily find women for an ego stroke online. They can go one the web and find one that will tolerate his poor behaviour. All the while on your end, you try to help him, be supportive, have hope he will come out of it.
Be very careful if he and has multiple & secretive online accounts and identities & if he has porn in his phone, and a password on it.
That’s not a relationship. He is a USER! Lazy users. I found some very interesting statistics online today…… just food for thought. Its a reality check and a wake up call if you realize its a rather unhealthy lifestyle. Disease-wise. Yuck!
These is nothing wrong with wanting to feel comfortable in a relationship, like knowing & trusting where your partner is and what he has been up to. The way the world is today, I want him to know he can trust me too, I have earned it and protected that part me and I am proud of it. So why cant I expect that put of my parter? Why do I have to suspect him until he breaks my trust again? ugh. 🙁
57% of people have used the Internet to flirt.
38% of people have engaged in explicit online sexual conversation and 50% of people have made phone contact with someone they chatted with online.
Evidence proves there is a high correlation between on-line infidelity and
subsequent real-time sexual affairs.
Evidence supports the existence of disinhibition, accelerated intimacy, and hyper-sexual online behavior that can easily lead to real-time infidelity 31% of people have had an online conversation that has led to real-time sex.
-It is estimated that 53% of all people will have one or more affairs during their lifetime.
Look at the numbers from a recent issue of Playboy Magazine:
-2 out of 3 women and 3 out of 4 men admit they have sexual thoughts about co-workers.
-86% of men and 81% of women admit they routinely flirt with the opposite sex.
-75% of men and 65% of women admit to having sex with people they work with.
-The fact is that human beings are NOT monogamous by nature. That means they cheat.
Experts say that a gut instinct is the most powerful indicator of a cheating lover.
Adultery statistics state that 85% of woman who feel their lover is cheating are correct. 50% of men who feel their lover is cheating are right. The first clue is seldom obvious. Typically, it’s a “feeling” that something is different
.
(Source: http://www.finabella.net/Information.html)
Wow, essence – those are some facts!
Thanks for the link.
love, Leonine
Leonine,
Yes, they are quite empowering. Reading them felt like a bucket full of ice-water poured over my No Contact blues head (much like this incredible website!) I got right over it and realized he was predator, and quite lazy when it came to relationships. So he is a loser with a capital L !
I realized, that i have so much more to offer. Like morals, a healthy lifestyle, a beautiful heart, an education, goals, acomplishments, passions, yes i am a bit sensitive and so what? But is that so wrong? Tomorrow, i will not be sad, i will just reread these stats, revise my fave NML quotes and remind myself that I am not alone and that i deserve a man who does not have this kind of life and one who is a responsible MAN before getting involved in a relationship.
be strong,
essence
Essence – Yikes — So like maybe 20% of relationships out there are ones where both partners are completely committed? 8 out of 10 of our relationships are going to end badly with one or both of us cheating or engaging in some unacceptable or at the very least, some inappropriate way? Good grief.
Saturday I kept denial in high gear. Sunday I wallowed. Today I raised masochism to an art by reading all his letters. I don’t want to admit this, but I never erased any of his emails. My personal email account seems to have an unending storage capacity, and the emails go back the entire two years. All 11,000 of them and I’m rather sure that replied to most, if not all, of them. That’s an average of 30 per day between the two of us, not allowing for all my previous days and weeks of NC, or AWOL as I thought of it at the time. Not taking into account the instant messaging both on MSN and on the company server (those were always PG-13), the edited-for-company-server emails at work, the endless text messages, and the phone, and hours and hours of talking face to face.
I swear I’m missing him so much it feels like a phantom limb. Well no wonder – for 3 years before all this he had been the closest friend I had ever had, too.
Now I’m moving from masochism to self-doubt. Not that there is any chance of my breaking NC – much too stubborn for that. But all these memories are flooding my mind and who the hell knows – maybe it was me all this time? I know I have said before that we are both screwed up when it comes to relationships, the fact that we could share it with each other is what had turned the friendship so deep in the first place.
I opened an email from earlier this year in which he was apologizing for being “sappy”. He said that the heavy thoughts were always crowding into his head but he never knew what would trigger me to run so he usually kept them to himself. He said that he was afraid that one of the times I ran I wouldn’t come back.
And now I’m remembering the first time I said “I love you” back. It took me a few months to get used to articulating the thought in my head, and then once I made up my mind to share it, it took me days to be able to say it. It was really ridiculous how I went about it: I made sure it wasn’t in the heat of a moment, in fact I had announced that day that I had something I had to say and made an appointment to meet. Even then, sitting there with him, having been prodded and encouraged to say what was on my mind, I only spit it out because I realized that he was thinking I was there to break it off. So I said it. “I love you”. For good measure I then added. “So there”.
So now I’m sitting here and thinking that God help anyone that ever entertains the idea of getting close to me again. At the time, he held me so tight I couldn’t catch my breath, and then he asked me, “So what are you doing for the rest of your life?” And I started talking about work.
I guess it doesn’t matter now. Like I said, I’m wallowing. I wish I could say I’m a strong person and I’m staying away because it’s the right thing to do. But I’m just miserable and while none of what happened between us was healthy I certainly can’t lay the blame outside of my own pale.
Yay for you, essence *and does that sort of daft stompy dance in a circle thingy*
I’ve realised that I have more to offer too – to myself and my daughter, above all. But, yeah, also in a proper relationship, should it present itself. And my list pretty much matches yours: real things, inner things; not scores and scalps and numbers!
To Hell with “them” anyway! Let them go frolicking around getting what (short-term) input they can from what (short-term) source they find.
I – and you – an US ALL – truly deserve better. And I do believe better is available. I do believe that the majority of people, men and women alike, want exactly what we want out of life.
Eus and Acs are barriers, nothing more and nothing less; and the amount of strength and height they have depends on OUR say-so.
Praise be for buckets of cold water poured all over our heads, lol!
Praise be for the EU/AC who pushes us just that bit too far and wakes us up to OURSELVES and what WE are doing to our OWN lives.
Yeah, essence: waking up, quotes and “deserving”. The way to go!
Much love, Leonine
OMG I am having a brake down myself !!! I have NC but I missed him so much today that I locked myself in my room and started crying like a baby and asking to myself WHY?!! WHY does he have to be such an ASSCLOWN not to realise we could have work things out!!!
At the very least some of you have mentioned that he “tried” to get back and work things out with you. Mine hasn’t and it hurts so much!!
I have kept myself occupied and even went to a few dates but it always hit me!! there is no single day I dont think about him. Isn’t that sad? I am such a fool!!!!
PlanetJane,
I don’t remember the specifics of your story, but I can say that you’re playing with fire. Of course you feel okay right now. You’re on a little high. But I can’t help but think that after these interactions soak in, you might not feel that great. Him wanting a hug; that makes me cringe: Whenever my ex EUM wanted sex, he would ask for a hug. Maybe your EUM is not like that, but I can’t help but think (especially when he wouldn’t stand up) that he was trying to get something physical started. Maybe I’m just paranoid, but still, I’m glad you didn’t touch him. Please be careful and really ask yourself if he brings something good to your life. Don’t get sucked back in!
Katty,
You are not a fool! I am in the same situation as you as far as the Asshole not even trying to contact me. That has what has killed me since day one. He spent 4 years of pursuing me, then I finally gave in, and 7 months later we went from texting I love you’s to the next day, he wouldn’t even respond to my texts, attempts, etc. When I did finally talk to him face to face a week later, he said he “had to much shit going on to deal/worry about me” and when I asked him if we could talk about it, he said NO. That was the last time I have talked to him. I haven’t uttered a word to him since January but think of him all day every day. Of course it doesn’t help that I have to see him every day, and him with his new OW every day. I have been a miserable mess for months and can’t believe how callous and cruel a person can be, then have no remorse. NO REMORSE!!! I am just not like that. Mine is a very long painful story. Needless to say, I am left with loving him, him owing me $650.00, and him giving me HPV. Sooooo….. needless to say, it has been a nightmare of epic proportions. I don’t know your story, but I can tell you that you are worth more than he is treating you.
@ QT : I am not the best with numbers – 20% does sound bleak but that does give us an incentive – right? We want what is good for us because we want quality because we know it is possible – right ?
@ Aega: I used to read old e-mails that went back two years until that assclown dumped me and then i discovered a pattern in they was poor way he treated me. I realized i need to delete them. When i did i felt very empowered. I felt he no longer had control over that sadness. it was gone, Washed away. You may want to print them and put them away, erase them, or store them under a password and put the password in the freezer under a pint of ice-cream! Don’t torture your self!
@ Leonine : Real things – yes – nature – art – your daughter ! I am right with you sister! Thanks for your happy dance and your support!
@ Katty ; Don’t beat yourself up. Not all of them “try” we tend to give them more credit. Stick to your guns. Stick to No Contact. Don’t go crawling back, you are just missing him. Read more of NML’s articles or download her book. It helps you understand. Its ok to be sad, to cry. But be strong, stick to No Contact! I am on to No Contact for three weeks, so, i know how you feel. It gets better !
stay strong,
essence
@essence
“store them under a password and put the password in the freezer under a pint of ice-cream”
Would sherbet work…? 🙂
I won’t print them and can’t erase them. Yet. But I really love your suggestion and I can do that. Baby steps, right?
Congratulations on your 3 weeks (I’m starting my #3 too!) and amen for art and nature (unfortunately no daughter to celebrate on my end). I think back to old heartaches and remember “convalescing” on mountain trails watching the pure simple pleasure of my dog doing angels in the snow. Yup, I’m homesick, too.
@aphrogirl
I am really curious about the self-portrait you are working on. Can I hear more? I am a painter and I think I witnessed this year just how much of our own self goes into any art we create, painters or not. I had a good day last month – not NC at the time but we are separated by a couple thousand miles – and I had mobilized myself to work most of the weekend for the first time in weeks. When I emailed some pictures of the piece to my insert-here-however-I-should-refer-to-him-since-it-seems-I’m-the-EU-here, he told me this was the first time I had ever painted a face. I went to look at all my work, and he was right. All women’s bodies cut off at the shoulders – the head is always beyond the canvas. If I do fit the entire silhouette into the perspective it is always from behind and the head is slumped forward so that you can just see the suggestion of its outline. This painting is different although it hadn’t been a conscious decision. I’m curious what you are putting into a work that you know is about you and your perception of yourself. If you feel like sharing, I would love to hear it.
The AC I knew shared his journals with me. He wrote: “.. unless a woman is emotionally unavailable or emotionally dishonest with me, my interest will wane. I seem to need the craziness.”
Being open, honest, loving, kind, available and “good” is pointless. Women like this hold no appeal. But we think “he’s a poor little soul that just doesn’t know how to show it but it’s trapped there somewhere within and it just needs the love of a good woman to release it.”
The AC doesn’t want the love of a good woman. He wants a crazy bitch.
@Jupiter – Am I on a high? Damn. I really kind of blew my opportunity to get away scott-free NC! He knew I was mad and hurt and emotional and he didn’t dare call me. Now we’ve had ice cream!? @#$%^! I just had to smooth it all over…couldn’t be a b^!ch now…no way. I catch myself hoping and fantasizing…and every time I’m having to slam the door with actual information (imagine that!). Things he’s actually said and done. I like the image of a sewer rat actually. Gosh, I hope I don’t have to start all over with this…no way. No…it’s not the same. Maybe he won’t call me. And then will I feel rejected? Ohhhhhhhh. Aghhhhhhhh 🙁
.-= PlanetJane´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
@ Miserable Love – I used to think that it was cowardly or unAmerican to run away from a problem – stick it out to the bitter end, right? My advice to you though is – MOVE! You might not be able to erase the pictures in your imagination, but watching the reality is torturous.
@ Oh, Planet Jane – you’ve come so far. Don’t let him suck you back in. You’re just going through a tough spot right now – hang on! Nostalgia is not real! You know he has nothing to give you and you can’t be ‘friends’. You deserve better than this! And you’re not a moron.
.-= brokenheartedbabble´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
Amen TJ.
@PJ … hon, Day 1. Day 1. You know it, we all know it, people don’t want to say it but I will. Day 1. We are here for you.
However … I am seeing an absence of a post from someone I was waiting to hear about. I hope it’s for a good reason. I think I know what’s really happened.
@ Leonine – you rock!
I think there’s only one way out: recognizing the behaviour and then getting out. This is about making a decision and sticking to it. Saying goodbye. Finding a new guy and hopefully you will make better decisions, if not, get out again. In the meantime make sure you can stand on you own and have fun.
I agree Aries, and that part about if the next one isn’t right GET OUT instead of thinking you’ll never find someone. That is so unattractive … 🙂
@blackgnat…
” I don’t know what he is thinking when he tells me those things, prolly a heads-up, likeâ€Hey, I don’t respect you and I know you have feelings for me, but we’re not in a relationship, and I can confide in you, so you can act as my sounding-board about my sexual and relationship problems. But I won’t be choosing YOU at the end of it all…so keep off the grass, but get on your knees when I want a bjâ€.”
This was me…he’d mention the women hitting on him in the store, the past opportunities he’d had to have other mens wives, but was too honorable to do so…however, if he’d meet them again…, the younger women who found him attractive and flirted with him on his job, and of course, the visits to the strip club and promise of free lap dances. OMG…this was me and I just snapped back at him for the insult of it. My bitter sarcasm was not enough to clearly draw the boundry lines. I’m worse than I thought…it was worse than I’d thought. ~sigh~
Leonine –
You and I could be twins. Your cycle sounds very much like mine. Right now, I’m at the tail end of a year and a bit trying to “win” with a married man – I want to leave on an “up” note where I’m in control. But I’m finally recognizing that it doesn’t matter how I leave, just that I LEAVE. Thanks for your words of wisdom.
Tia
@Jetred
You and me both darling. They really are all the same. I remember talking about something totally innocently and he started on about someone he had dated when he was 16. He had this nasty smirky voice, started talking about giving her oral sex. He’d have had a fit if I started talking about sex with another man. “Hey, this is the one friend you need never have to worry about me going off with” (I started out on the premise that you weren’t going to, bucko).
I’ve just gone NC with someone – a friend, but one who .. urgh I don’t even want to say it. I feel sick. All the same stuff, I tried to get him to see that he (the one who opened my eyes to the Narc my ex was) was just as bad himself for being emotionally unavailable. Conversation deteriorated very fast, with my stated firm boundaries (I was sick of him making sexual comments to me, sick of him saying inappropriate things in general etc etc) as being “drama” and “incendiary self hatred”. Then he said the conversation was over and believe me now that is a very firm boundary, ANYONE who tells me that a conversation is over (and invariably they started it in the first place) will get their wish and it will be over, for good, because such lack of basic respect should have no place in our world.
I feel a bit bad cos I did come out of a bad place with this insight but yes you guessed it, he wanted me away from my ex so I could “commit to him” and yet he’s playing the field and wondering why I haven’t come round to his way of thinking. Explaining what I felt was turned into “I am not going to lower myself into personality politics my dear”. End game. Over and out.
I feel like a bitch. I shouldn’t. This is what these guys do to them, and I told him that what he will actually do is alienate everyone who might possibly be there for him. They really really can’t see it!
@Butterfly Planet Jane, QT, sadthing, and everyone (sorry, can’t remember all who this applies to!)
NML said “Instead, we decide that even though he is behaving poorly, the fact that he keeps coming back means that there must be something irresistible about us, that he must love us, be crazy about us, can’t live without our ‘medicine’.
This is such an appealing thought, even though we know in our minds it doesn’t work that way.
Yesterday at the conference, my ex caught me in a hallway during one of the very few times I was alone. He started talking to me, and I didn’t want to be rude (I know, I know…) so I did end up talking to him for a while. After that, he was overly nice to me, helping even more than what was required. He told me he had been doing OK with our breakup, but it was difficult seeing me in person. He actually used the words “my door is always open for you, even though I still don’t have much to offer you.” I should have asked right then and there how his wife was, but I was so nervous, that question didn’t come out.
Long story short, the people I was with ended up socializing all together with him and his friends. So I did talk to him even more over the course of the evening, but mostly about neutral topics. However, he did invite me to his room at the end of the night. He had those “little boy” eyes, and I was very tempted to take him up on his offer (and he smelled soooo good) , but instead I just suddenly gave him a hug (I know, I know…). Of course that aroused strong feelings and desires, but I managed to just pull away from him and walk quickly back to my room. (I did think about the fly-ridden crotch image, lol)
So I have broken NC, and I *know* I am playing with fire, but I am trying to talk myself back into wanting NC again. If I hadn’t found this site and read all the info, I am almost certain I would have been in his bed last night. I can see who he is more clearly now. I am still hopeful that since I was able to resist going back to his room, there may still be hope for me to “not go any further”.
I have three more days that I have to see him. Please wish me luck….
Sorry I don’t have time to respond to some of your posts more individually – I really am thinking about you all and feel for some of the things you are going through. This conference (and *trying* to do my own damage control) is taking all my energy.
Love to all,
Meant xo
@ Meant
The biggest hug darling 🙂 The biggest hug. Just remember, that the heat will probably get turned up by him … keep strong and remember this is ALL about him and believe him that he doesn’t have much to offer. Shall I translate it for you?
“My door is always open for you to come in if you are stupid enough and let me use you for a while. I know you will, cos you’re weak and dumb and I don’t respect you, I pull this sad/cute face and voila, who needs to pay for a prostitute?”
Blunt? Yeah. But you know why I say it 🙂
Stay strong hon.
@Katty…
“At the very least some of you have mentioned that he “tried†to get back and work things out with you. Mine hasn’t and it hurts so much!!”
You’re not a fool. Just feeling through a loving heart. I was thinking the very same thing about my A/C, EUM, Narc., Deeply distubed sociopath ex. Everyone who has fallen off the wagon of NC has bad feelings about it afterward, I understand that. But I’m at a point where I would, at least, like to know that he thinks of me. It hurts to know that he doesn’t. I won’t ever have to worry about the call, the email, the IM, or text. He will never walk in my direction again. I should be glad…but you know how that is. I’m thinking that I could ignore any attempt…but I feel foolish in saying that. It’s sort of a false sense of bravery or confidence in my own resolve. We will get through this…it’s just not easy.
I miss him so dangerously.
@Jetred
Are you due a period? I was so bad the other day … PMT definitely definitely kicks it in. It’s an illusion – it’s a chemical imbalance … that’s how I see it with myself but… I stopped smoking cold turkey 12 years ago, I know I can kick this.
It’s the future you need to look at not this clown.
@Meant btw I didn’t really say well done enough … seriously girl, well done. Don’t hug him again, you might catch fleas 🙂 It’s the flea spray which smells nice!!!!!!!!
Meant and everyone
we are here because we are all capable of ” junkie” thinking, ( just this once, I’ll stop soon..) and sorry if that offends anyone but…. I think its the truth. Now, in fairness, most humans are capable of junkie thinking, and indulge in it regularly to some degree.
The difference between those of us here is that we see the danger of the effects of the EUM on our health. Many people live with the dysfunction of addictive and unhealthy behaviors and never even see it or deal with it. We all lived with it for months or years before facing it. So… I am glad to be here, fighting for truth and clarity in dealing with my unhealthy behavior.
Anybody who falls off the wagon, has contact, no matter what level, just keep on truckin with the attempt to quit the guy ! Don’t beat yourself up, just walk away again and do your best to remember why you are staying away – for your own health, happiness and sanity.
Aega, you asked about my painting..at this point it is more a musing than an actual work. What kind of person do I want to become as I get older ? I am trying to actually come up with a mental picture first, then I may actually try to paint it. Your story of not painting heads is a bit weird :-)) I’d be giving it some thought for sure, nothing bad implied by that. Hey, art is just one way to get out what is inside of us all that is hard to get out for one reason or another.
I have not weighed in on your story but here goes…an affair like yours sounds” exciting” and comforting in an EU sorta way. And yeah I can understand that you appreciate each other and connect in a different way than with your respective spouses Having someone not want to ” fix” you is attractive. But maybe you do have issues that you should work on, and that is no big deal,all humans do. And maybe your husband is one who can help you with that, as you can help him with his. Maybe not. But the fact that you and the EUM are not willing to go through the work and disruption to end your marriages and commit to each other either speaks volumes about something lacking in your relationship with the EUM. If you value your relationship with your husband I would not run away from him through all this, though I might not admit to it all of it either. I used to believe in full honesty, keep no secrets, etc.. but after reading here I am thinking there are times its best to keep it to yourself, Dunno for sure.
Have a good day everyone, focus on the positive, who and how you want it to be.
@Butterfly…
personality politics? WTF??? Who are these pr*cks anyhow…where do they come from?
@Meant…
Uh huh…you will be debugged upon your return. You do realize that, don’t you? You can’t go around huggin’ men with the fly thing and the oozing going on! And this ‘socializing’ you were doing…it didn’t include spirits did it? Oh dear…you are doing better than I would. If he’d touch me once…we’d never be in meetings. Just be more careful…and do this. When he’s in your face…with that stinky breath of his along with dirty teeth (the ones he has left) and he says something sweet like…I’ve missed you so much…or some such LIE…you don’t have to say anything in response. Just look at him, as a mother looks at her child covered in dog manure and smile sweetly turning and walking confidently away from a toxic set up. No need to mention how his wife is…that only lets him know he has, or the situation has gotten to YOU and has been on YOUR mind. Just say nothing with a smile leaving him with a doubt in HIS mind as to your feeling. Yes girl…walk away as if to say to his bull confession…”Yeah baby, I know you miss me. Deal with it the best way you can.”
Thank you Betterwithouthim for your encouragement words 🙂 And congratulations,12 months NC might not have been easy but you made it.I didnt break NC yesterday,I was very tempted to but I didnt.I know he is no good for me and that I should be away from him but there is like a force inside me pushing me to him.Sometimes I fell so tired to keep fighting against it and fell like giving up but I know I cant.I cant be sucked back in all that.I waisted so many years on that already that now that I finaly got out I cant just jump back in.So Im determined to keep going on NC and to get over him no matter what.
Meant,
I have been in your exact position, and have been polite, and given a hug… before I knew about no contact, I would have given him more than a hug because I wanted and believed our connection could be real, but the next day was ALWAYS the same. He was lying about getting a divorce, and I was betting that and talking myself into believing he was telling the truth, and I was the one who hurt, not him. Like aphro girl says, it is like a JUNKIE going for a fix. If you do give in, if you do get that one more fix, and then he goes back to where he lives with his wife, and you go back to no contact (or worse, keeping a once-in-awhile, when he can fit it in without his wife finding out type of relationship) How will that help you?
You’ll be back to the exact place you were when you were desperately looking for something exactly like this site! And you’ll be hurting, and starting all over.
I’m not trying to be harsh, but I’ve been there! It isn’t worth it.
Also, “better without him,” thank you for that note about how well you are doing 12 months after no contact! That is so encouraging to me. I started no contact in December or January, and the only time it has been broken was by him, one time in a big way where he showed up at a function where he knew I’d be, and one time when he was at a restaurant where I was picking up food for myself and my sons, and he was way out in my neighborhood eating there by himself. The 2nd time I was not polite because the first time, I tried the polite route and I felt worse again afterwards for a month.
But, I still consider myself No contact for over 7 months now. I just continually come to this site for reassurance and to hopefully, by sharing what I’ve learned from NML and from actually living NC, maybe it will help someone else.
And some days, I still wish he had been who he said he was because the man he said he was (in words, not actions) was the man I’d wanted all my life. Sigh. AC
I fell so good now girls 🙂 I was a bit down but my friend just cheered me up.She is right it is his lost that the relationship is over.I had a LDR with my ex and always wondered if his behaviour was normal or not since by then I didnt know anybody that was in a LDR too to compare.I tried to compare with my friends and family and he always would say “Is diferent because they have a normal relationship and we are in a LDR” and would say that his behaviour was normal.That wanting to talk less as possible,not call,seem bothered when I called and so on was normal.But my friend is on a LDR now and she says she agrees with me that isnt how it suposed to be.That she and her bf talk everyday and that is normal (not too much as my ex made me believe it was).Now I know that I wasnt asking for too much,it was him that was giving too litle.
â€Yeah baby, I know you miss me. Deal with it the best way you can.â€
Oh yeah the killer. I would be so tempted to smile my warmest smile and just say “I know. Night night” and walk off.
Just remember Meant … when you walk away you have the power. You always have the power, so long as you don’t give it away. Walk tall in those heels, girly!!!
Lisa, drugs are bad because they are an empty shell, a promise of everything we have always wanted to fill up our empty spots.The AC could not have been everything you always wanted or….you would not be in NC !
It is what we create, what we make up about them, that we think maybe can fill our empty parts we have always been looking to fill. The fact that they are flippy floppy, ambivalent changelings makes us able to shape them in whatever way our overimaginative and optimistic minds can come up with. Enter our creation… Mr. Perfect
But, AC’s really are little clowns who have been busy avoiding their emotions all their lives, and thus rather clueless about love and care and reciprocity. They are so self absorbed at a superficial level, and that keeps them from seeing the damage cause to us and themselves by living emo- lite. Emo laziness is their whole world, so much so that they never even grasping the concept. It’s like they are stuck on stupid.
And what does this say about us who chose to stay so long with them ? For me I am learning to fill those empty spots and seek truth in doing so. That means seeing and accepting my weaknesses and working to understand them and triumph over them. To me this is yet another definition of learning to love oneself, and not needing another to be complete. I am not writing off relationships, that is not my point. Only getting clear that bad relationships of any kind are the worst thing to court.
In the best of situations, people develop a guiding synergistic intelligence together that truly makes both of them better people. With the AC it goes the wrong way.He’s already down and kinda comfy there…and no matter how strong you may think you are, there is no way you can pull him up. If you are on this site you likely got pulled down there with him. And may have a tendency to go there more than you should.
But you are here because even though you are in the hole, you see a light up there. The solution is doable. Just start climbing out. Keep your eye on the light ahead, if you fall take a deep breath, a bit of a rest and keep climbing. It’s a long haul so stay positive. And though the hole is always dark, I promise the light does get brighter the closer you get to it.
And thanks to all here who share their stories of their progress, any progress. It’s all encouraging to me.
Thank you ladies for your encouraging words! you should see how my eyes look this morning from crying last night, I look like an alien!! Its embarrassing at work!
@ Miserable Love
I’m sorry to hear about your story. He definitely sounds like an SCUMBAG for leaving you the way he did.
It happened to me too, that he initially showed so much interest in me that I thought he was “the one†and then gradually he “tried†(I said tried because I wouldn’t let him) degrade me to a booty call. I started to mistrust him because of his suspicious behavior and got myself check at the doctor, thankfully I was clear. But what an ASSHOLE for him to be doing this to you! I really hope things get better for you and hopefully you don’t have to see him that much with OW! Ouch that’s horrible on his part!! Hugs to you!
@ Essence
Thank you for your words! Absolutely, I think the one thing that has helped me through this is in fact is reading NML’s articles. I have learned so much from other girls experiences and these have given me strength to keep going too. I was having a weak moment but definitely I am sticking to NC for good! I wish you luck to you with NC as well, tough but we can do it!!
@ Jetred
I’m sorry to hear you’re in the same position as I am. Yes, its horrible to think that they cannot even let you know how they feel about things!! It’s just awful to do that to someone you spend time with and shared good moments with! Its like they lack sympathy and feelings like NML says. But Don’t give in!! Is tough but we can do it!!
@those ladies who are sad cos their former clown didn’t look them up.
Mine hasn’t either in any way that he knows will be received, not even a text.
I AM GLAD I AM GLAD I AM GLAD and you should be too. Rejoice!!!!! If they contact you it is CRAPPY, I remember when I got that text begging me to tell him I was ok thinking that he was manipulating me cos he knew I coudn’t ignore it. OHHHHH if only I had known then what I know now, that little pleading text wouldn’t say “Honey, I love you, I messed up, please give me another chance” it would say “Oh crap 🙁 you weren’t supposed to take control of yourself and take away my comfort blanket shit shit shit come back I want to make your life more crappy than I have already”.
Oh if I had just got that text and thought “tit” and deleted it, or deleted it unread maybe.
Hindsight is a glory but as this is not possible please listen to those of us who went there before you and understand fully: it is a GREAT that these bozos are so lazy. Helps you get over them far faster.
Uh .. I wish I could edit. OK so I mean that the FIRST No Contact I did without knowing what it was and he texted me and I was dumb enough to get sucked back in. The second NC is NC all the way (he did mail me, I found traces in the spam but the mail filter automatically deleted it). Make sense? Sowwy!
aphrogirl -“And what does this say about us who chose to stay so long with them ? For me I am learning to fill those empty spots and seek truth in doing so.”
What you mean exactaly with empty spots? I want to learn everything about myself that made me keep the AC so long on my life so I would like if you could explain it please.If I think to myself how I could stay so long with somebody that wasnt filling my needs and that was treating me so bad I cant answer.I know that means I have low self esteem and boundaries and Im working on that but I would like to know anything more that could help me to improve myself and not be draw to those kind of men again.
good question Anushs
I guess empty spots is something of a cliche, and making me give some thought as to how to define what I was trying to say. My first easy answer was… a feeling of emptiness is feeling a something is missing, that there should be more… and that feeling is unique to each person. But then thinking on that I realize that we all are wired pretty similarly.
Ok so here goes an attempt to make a cliche clearer, I am gonna pretend I am in Meant’s not so enviable position these past few days. Please understand I am not guessing how she feels, just imagining how I might have felt in her place, before I went through NC with the EUM, as it relates to our experiences. And if you are reading this Meant, I am surely rooting for you as are many who are following your story. Wear those heels and kick some arse !
I’d be fine giving presentations, going to seminars, dining, chatting and partying with others at the event, I would actually enjoy all those things. But when I got back to my hotel room at 8, 9 or 10 PM I’d feel alone and maybe not so OK with just being with me. And if there was a familiar comforting, distracting sexually charged EUM/ drug down the hall, I sure would be craving a fix of the thrill and comfort, and the distraction away from being alone in a strange hotel with me.
Never mind the fact that the very best thing I could do in that situation would be to go bed early, but, prior to the EUM, I’d be tempted to ignore what is best for me and slip into the familiar temporary comfort of the dance with the EUM at the expense of my physical and emotional health.
Why would I do such a thing ? And… how does that relate to “empty spaces” ? Way I see it, when it gets down to just me, myself and I, I became uncomfortable being alone and later, sometimes bored being alone. Maybe it was the lack of drama I got addicted to. I knew I should not need another to fill up the discomfort, to make things OK, to give my life excitement, but that is how it was. I filled the discomfort and pain and feeling there should be something more, that emptiness, with fantasy drama.
This is not exactly self esteem issues either. Years ago I read an article about a man who took long bike trips alone and he said that most people really are not comfortable being alone. But really, for me, trying to fill up that space with others, to get away from something inside me, is an avoidance tactic. There was something missing, the spot that should be full of life and joy and love was… defintely empty of those things with the EUM and, increasingly filled with fear, confusion and instability.
In my case, I was also avoiding a thorny transitional place in my life, where everything I have ever known was changing, and I did not want to face it and do the hard work of change. But at the time, when I turned to myself for strength it was kind of empty and the EUM turned into an even bigger distraction and drained me even more.
I have done a lot of soul searching the last few years and one thing that amazed me is that humans often have the uncanny ability to consider themselves ” unworthy”. I am not so religious but I have come to believe that this stems from a disconnect that is the joy of knowing you are loved by something bigger than us all. Knowing that love, feeling it inside and taking it out to share with others is the antidote to the feeling of emptiness. It is the something more. At Least that is what I think.
Hanging with the EUM drains you of that energy because they take all that goodness, they are so very needy, and give nothing good in return and actually often hurt you in return. The EUM left me so empty, and it is taking me some time to refill that reservoir of love inside me, of knowing I am worthy, that the love is there, that I have it and I can give it.
The biggest lesson is to never let myself be drained like that again; not only is it a huge distraction but it does not do me or anyone else any good.
@NML — “we decide that even though he is behaving poorly, the fact that he keeps coming back means that there must be something irresistible about us, that he must love us, be crazy about us, can’t live without our ‘medicine.’” “We think he keeps coming back because he wants to change but just doesn’t know how.”
This is SO TRUE!! When he comes back, it so plays into our fantasy that the love is real and that “he wants to change but just doesn’t know how!” It cetainly got my fantasy going again . . . and I reacted . . . a bit stupidly on the advice of a normal male. He said, the unexpexted arrival 2 weeks ago after 5 weeks NC demonstrated that he still does have feelings. . . that he wanted to make amends . . . and that seeing how I reacted . . . he didn’t know what to do. He suggested I call him and invite him to get together for a brief visit and talk. So, I thought about it. I really didn’t like the way I’d left things between us so I called on Wednesday, left a voice mail that he responded to quickly. He said he was going to be around this weekend (he now lives at a distance) but that he was tied up moving someone and didn’t know if there would be be time. I said OK. He then told me he’d been working hard and being good (code for not messing around w/ women). I didn’t respond. We then exchanged what was happening in our lives and then he out of the blue says, “I’ve been doing a little dating, it’s kinda fun.” I don’t know whether this statement was to evoke jealousy, in retaliation for me not saying I’ve been good too, or a way to friend zone me. Anyway, I didn’t like it and after I got off the phone I thought how am I going to get out of this!! When he called me Friday night to tell me it wasn’t looking good for the weekend, I responded amicably and said, ok, have a nice trip. This somehow unglued him and he stumbled over words and said, well I can call you when I’m in the vehicle. Whaaaaat??!! It made no sense. Well he didn’t call and its the first time he hasn’t called when he’s said he would. Really, there was no reason to call. Anyway, I do feel a bit calmer than I did because the surprise visit left me in an agitated state. Also, it was interesting to me how my mood elevated knowing that we would have contact between Wednesday and the weekend. I guess it was taking a hit of that old relationship crack again. It’s back on the wagon and back to NC and I have very good resolve in this area. I was yearning for him this morning. Tonight I feel I’ve grown tired of his silly juvenile games even if he doesn’t know he’s playing them. The lesson is contact causes regression in the healing process and truly moving on!
@Butterfy — I hope you were missing me as I missed reading your wonderful insights for a coupe of days. I’m nw caught up.
NML, this is the best post ever!!! Thank you!
Ten days ago I thought I was in control, how naive I was…all came back again, and yet again my EUM disappeared…WHEN I LEARN??? I keep saying to myself, I need to do something about it and take radical action, but still too weak to do it…I wish I saw him with another woman, ok, I would be very upset and hurt, but at least it will give me an encouragment to cut him from my life FOREVER!!!
Meant to be Happy,
He sounds so sleazy, thinking it would be just that easy to get you into bed. I’m so happy you resisted because it can be very hard sometimes. You deserve so much better, and the only way you’re going to find a great guy is to let this unfaithful jerk go on his way. Stay strong!
@Meant –YAY for you!!! I agree with everyone else that hugs are a very dangerous thing. You know how they say that a good handshake in business makes you successful, well I think hugs are like a handicapped access ramp to our beds for these guys. But that just means that since you INITIATED the hug and then WALKED AWAY ANYWAY says all that much more of your strength. That was kickass! If it didn’t smack of a bad pun, I’d even say, “you’re the man, girlâ€â€¦ 🙂
@Butterfly
I sit here and just crack up over your translations. “Oh crap you weren’t supposed to take control of yourself and take away my comfort blanket shit shit shit come back I want to make your life more crappy than I have already†LOLOLOLOLOL
@aphrogirl
“The fact that you and the EUM are not willing to go through the work and disruption to end your marriages and commit to each other either speaks volumes about something lacking in your relationship with the EUMâ€. That’s spot on. I can’t speak for him nor can I really put myself in his shoes since I don’t have kids and he does, but I admit that while I tell myself that I didn’t end my marriage because I didn’t want to hurt my husband or break up the life of two children, a huge part of my inertia is that I have been hanging on to security. As has he.
I do believe that people can and do fall in love more than once in life. Years ago (I’m 39 now), I had met this guy in college I ended up living with for 3 years. We were a very unlikely couple and over the course of our relationship the differences became too great. I grew up and out of the barefoot bohemian stage, but he didn’t want to, nor would he stop smoking pot, which I couldn’t and wasn’t going to deal with. After the last time he got high and got fired from yet another job, I bought him a one-way ticket back home (which was on the other side of the country). I drove him to the airport, too. It was Christmas Eve. I started bawling as if someone were pulling my fingernails off as soon as I got back in my car. I stopped at a liquor store, bought a bottle of vodka and some bloody mary mix, and proceeded to drink myself into a stupor (all of two of them, I believe? I don’t drink much…) the minute I got home. My point is, when I decided to break it off I still loved him very much. To this day I am glad that we’d had those years together; I owe some of the best parts of who I am to this man. In the end it didn’t work out because we chose different paths for ourselves, but what I had felt and what we had had been love. It’s just that it ran its course.
I could say that my marriage has now run its course (probably two years ago already, or none of this would have happened). If my commitment to this other man now were complete, I would have pursued a divorce regardless of consequences. I do love him and the connection is almost uncanny sometimes. But truth be told, love can lay waste to so many obstacles, hurtful to others or not and we have both chosen our obstacles instead.
This type of a relationship IS a drug; when people destroy their lives and devastate their families because of an addiction to a chemical it is never because they LOVED the drug more than everything else on earth and made a conscious choice to sacrifice all of in order to stay addicted. It’s that they couldn’t quit the addiction and that addiction overtook their lives and spawned tragic consequences.
As for my “headless women†I have a theory: subliminally, I think most women struggle with the dichotomy of being an object of physical attraction to our partner on the one hand, and needing him to value us only for what is inside our heads and our hearts on the other. No matter how he demonstrates his connection with us we wonder whether he would love us for who we are if we didn’t possess physical beauty as well. And when he admires our looks, we want him to look past all the physical attributes, because after all there is a feeling, thinking person inside that body. So I think that I paint the body because as a visual person I have a need to depict something beautiful, and when that’s the object of the work then there is no need to explore nuances of facial expressions that would hint at the kind of person that I’m portraying. When I do paint, however, an actual likeness of someone and try to get at and then express who she is, the body is irrelevant. As I said, I suspect that most women at times feel a disconnect between those two aspects of themselves, maybe I’m just more neurotic than most and hence let it affect my work.
OK, so I tripped and fell somewhere along the way and hit my head on a Freudian textbook… Either way, I’ve just spend two hours or so reading all the posts and writing this one, and that is a much better use of my time than pining away.
Good night everyone
Miserable Love,
I was reading your posts on this topic, and felt so sad for what you’re going through.
If I remember correctly, you’re married. And if that is right, how are things going with you and your husband?
I saw that someone suggested that you move! And although that sounded drastic, actually, if you aren’t married, and don’t have anyone else to be accountable to, maybe a move would be a good thing.
Easier said than done, though.
How are your kids doing? Are you able to focus on them?
I know that for myself, when I was tangled up in hidden a relationship that wasn’t open to the world, I was very aware that I wasn’t giving 100 percent to my kids.
Before I met the guy, my kids were my world, and then all of a sudden I was on this side trip with the man who was telling me that he and I were going to be together forever. It was a lot of work to try and understand that relationship while still trying to make my kids the priority.
I just hope that, since you have kids, and they are (I’m assuming) the most important thing in the world for you 🙂 that maybe just focusing on them and enjoying them even more than you already do might be a great avenue for healing and a great way to put the AC in perspective to the things that really matter in life.
I don’t know. Just my thoughts.
I know that since I have been able to put the insane “relationship” behind me, my priorities have become clear again. I never really lost site of being a parent and how important the job is, but I definitely was side-tracked.
I hope you are finding some peace tonight.
@aphrogirl “Hanging with the EUM drains you of that energy because they take all that goodness, they are so very needy, and give nothing good in return and actually often hurt you in return. The EUM left me so empty, and it is taking me some time to refill that reservoir of love inside me, of knowing I am worthy, that the love is there, that I have it and I can give it.
The biggest lesson is to never let myself be drained like that again; not only is it a huge distraction but it does not do me or anyone else any good.”
This is precisely the lesson I am learning! A friend of mine a counsellor believes that the giving and giving stems from the desire for the receiver to give back love in the same unconditional manner. But with EUM’s I have learned that you can cut off both your legs and give it to them and they invariably don’t even notice and would probably ask why you didn’t cut off your arms and give it to them too.
It is a hard lesson to learn I know, because we keep thinking that if we just give enough they will finally recognize and reciprocate even 20% of what we continually give – doesn’t seem to work that way. The absolute drain on the body, mind, and soul leaves you in absolute tail spin and even then these jerks wouldn’t bat an eye.
NML is so right if you don’t shut the door and completely bang it shut then you are vunerable and with no doubt you will be burned again….
I shut the the door but left a crack, got burned OUCH!!!
I mean look at this embarrassing (to me) situation I’m in now over one month ago he called and suggested we get together a whole month thats how much he doesn’t want to meet up!!!!! I feel dumb for agreeing to in the first place… BUT I accepted all his crap behaviour and he has no incentive to change why would he??? I’m in the fallback position… The only postive thing for me is I have not ran after him. At first especially as the days rolled by was tough.. but I have survived. I have no clue as to whether he will or won’t ring and it shouldn’t matter because I should learn an open door even a crack means he will continue to treat me like crap…….
@cece “This is precisely the lesson I am learning! A friend of mine a counsellor believes that the giving and giving stems from the desire for the receiver to give back love in the same unconditional manner. But with EUM’s I have learned that you can cut off both your legs and give it to them and they invariably don’t even notice and would probably ask why you didn’t cut off your arms and give it to them too.”
Yep. Then probably beat you with the bloody stumps of your legs whilst telling you how shit you are. Then asking why you can’t walk anywhere and why do you have to drag your torso along leaving blood stains. This is SO, like, embarassing for me you know, having a woman with no legs. Bye. Oh by the way, by the time your legs have magically and against all the odds grown back? I’ll want your liver.
Urgh.
@Serena
Hi honey yes indeed I have, I was flattered and a little humble to read your kind words. Your post really made me smile, before I saw your comment to me, because even if you don’t fully feel it yourself I sense the changes in you 🙂 “Tonight I feel I’ve grown tired of his silly juvenile games even if he doesn’t know he’s playing them. The lesson is contact causes regression in the healing process and truly moving on! ” Exactly. Exactly.
@Meant – where are ya girly? We’re all hoping this guy doesn’t ooze enough slime …
@Tulipa – so he did the bait thing huh? Great. You’ve had a lesson in what will continue to happen AND you didn’t actually have to go through any hassle. You survived it though – and now you need to be really tough with the most important person in your life as if you were looking after someone else and make sure this guy CAN’T call. Change your number if you have to (I don’t need to, in two years he never called and the ex-but-one NEVER initiated anything at all and probably never will but he’s not my problem!). Take the advantage from this guy and don’t feel bad because this is how it is with him,
The only positive isn’t just that you didn’t ring him (well done not to), the biggest positive is everything else you have learned 🙂 Oh and you being in the fallback position? As NML says somewhere, when YOU walk then you have the power and you are fallback to no one – the trick is not how to get past this one (very unimportant) man, it’s how to never be in that place again.
Opt out 🙂
@PJ hoping things are ok …
***
So apart from realising that music is dangerous (been listening to “new” music which I now realise is only new to me not them, and making me think about the last lying little parasite), and blowing out “friends”, I have a question since I am too blind to see, lol.
This guy I met has not contacted me – situation is unclear yet if contact is actually of romantic interest or friends or professional and when I say unclear I mean on both sides as I have had to maintain a modicum of professionalism since I met him through work. I was sad about not hearing but didn’t sweat it much, he has an exam today which is the entry point of something he has always wanted to do – however, I do want to let him know I am interested in him as he displays all the things I do actually want as opposed to being Mr Rock Star. I sent him a text wishing him luck and asking him to let me know how he gets on, he sent one back saying “we’ll see how it goes tomorrow I’m hoping there will be reason to celebrate”.
His first language isn’t English and also there are cultural considerations in the wording. I think that was a very happy to hear from me response (as opposed to “lol thanks”). It occurred to me, as I said to someone who had said in another post that if a guy had not asked for her number within 20 minutes then he was history, what happened to getting to know someone and allowing a relationship to develop?
We really do live in an instant society, and I am coming round solidly to NML’s point of view and the info posted about the net:full of players and people hiding from reality with fake feelings. It might be that I am misreading the signs with this guy (people who have observed say I am emphatically not misreading them) but if so then I will want to have him as a friend for sure cos he is a nice guy.
I’m hoping, but not betting on potential, that his celebrations have some idea of involving me at some point 🙂
@butterfly…
I just know he would have been satisfied with me if I could have given him the liver he’d expected…I’m a failure. Now he’s with a vegan..ie. healthier liver, I suppose. LOLOLOLOL!!!
I declare, Butterfly…you ARE me…just in a healthier stage of the process. A bit more balanced (well…very slightly, LOL) You’d be great to hang out with on a Saturday evening and talk trash with. Funny lady, indeed. It beats crying doesn’t it, dear one. Thank you for being a straight shooter and a fantastic support grumbling in the background as I find myself giving this slug credit for being human. He’s just a slug and doesn’t deserve to be thought of as any more than that. I often need to be stopped in my tracks as I start the fantasizing again. You’ve been my danger alarm, before you could even know where my heart is heading.
You’re a gift…you nutty lady. ((hugs))
@Butterfly,
Just got back to my hotel room after the evening’s social events – it’s 1:30am here. You were right about the ex. I guess he had sent me a message on MSN, but I had him blocked so didn’t get it. Regardless, today I got to hear how he misses me terribly, and will love me until he dies. Wow – funny how we can go from barely speaking to profession of undying love in the span of 3 days!!!
I’m feeling a bit like I’m on the edge of the slippery slope. Tonight ended with another hug – a bit longer this time, and a bit of a kiss, too. Confessions of an EUM addict. Fortunately, although the kiss tempted me to push him onto the nearest bed and let nature take its course, it did not have the effect of days when we were together. A bit of the spark was missing. Which was a very good thing, because I was able to stop quickly again, and walk (almost run!!) to my room.
I did ask him about his wife and son today, though. And while we were talking, I reminded him to use the past tense at times, since we are no longer in a “relationship”. So, I am continuing to let him get a little closer, knowing all the while I am playing with fire, and that it will be harder to go back to NC the more I interact with him this week.
I feel kind of numb today – not horribly sad like the first day here, and not on a big high like I would have been a few weeks ago after a kiss. My brain and heart are numb, that is, but my body is still in “longing” mode.
I’m not making sense – must go to bed for another busy day tomorrow. Thanks for asking Butterfly, and thanks to lisa, Aega, jupiter, aphrogirl, Jetred and all who have replied for your encouragement. Sorry I can’t tell you that I am completely avoiding him like I know I should. I have one more evening here at the hotel, then I can get back to not seeing him for several months, which will hopefully make it easier to get back to my next “day 1 NC”
Good night all,
meant xo
Okay…whose going with me to that hotel to rescue, our girl, Meant? I got gas money…
I can’t help worrying she’s gonna catch something that she doesn’t deserve. Maybe I’m acting like a mother hen. Yeah, I am…she’ll be fine. Numb is good, I think. Isn’t it? But the kiss….? Oh lordy. Going for the rosary and holy water now.
Lol, I back up everything you say about Butterfly, jetred – wonderful, isn’t she?
And Meant…ooo-eerrrr: things seem to be building! Please keep in mind more than the “happy memories of happy times” with this man; please keep in mind the pain and turmoil he caused you.
love, Leonine
Jetred,
“Okay…whose going with me to that hotel to rescue, our girl, Meant? I got gas money…”
LOL. Yep, we all want to rescue her, but she’s a big girl and now she is armed, so hopefully she can get through this and take good care of herself!
We all know the guy is only out for himself! AC!
We’ll she make it through and stay strong? I bet, yes!
@Meant – I remember numb when I went back after being more sensible. Please hon … I hope you read this before tonight – remember that is IS over and you have told him so, and that if he is telling you that he loves you and always will HE IS LYING TO YOU, HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT LOVE IS.
Hugs.
@Jetred, Leonine etc etc thank you. I’m trying to accept the complement I never was good at that but it’s part of the work I am doing so… thanks!
This morning in the supermarket I was listening to some of this music I shoudn’t and had tears in my eyes etc etc. However, I’ve had a sharp slap in the face about this whole thing. I found out that the family who live next door to me, who were young and full of life with an 11 year old daughter, would seem to have died – I say this cos my grasp on the language is still not very strong but it does seem to be the case. I thought they were just on holiday. The last time I saw them, the girl was dancing outside and singing about being “happy happy happy”. Life is not fair, if this is true (and I am fairly sure that the notice on the main door to the complex does refer to them). So young and full of life, yet these git live to hurt another day.
So no matter what … we are lucky. We are the lucky ones.
@meant-concetrate on his ACTIONS not words,he says he loves you but he realy had acted like it? I dont think so. What about all he did to you and all those months without talking to you? That MSN message probably is a lame excuse.He is trying to get you back in,dont fall for that.Keep in mind what a guy friend of mine told me once “If a guy realy loves a girl he will do whatever it takes to be with her”,this man had done that? No,he just go after you when is convenient for him.Like I said just concetrate on the actions and dont let the words fool you.
To those that are more than 3 months NC- When the yearning for the EUM disapiers?
@ Anusha: my ex Narc has been gone over a year; Mr Eu for about 4 months, and already I wouldn’t take either of them back with a big red bow on their heads.
What remains (for me) is the insult and perhaps some sort of weird yearning that (certainly Mr EU, because he was the last) should realise exactly what has been lost, and that I should still be near enough to hear about it/witness his regret.
But I honestly wouldn’t take either back for any reason whatsoever.
love, Leonine.
Anusha,
I am about 7 months NC, and I still “yearn…” but now I’m able to see that I just yearn for the man that I THOUGHT he was, not who he really is. It really helps me to be able to remember that he is a wimp and a liar and is not kind to his wife instead of trying to pretend he is who I thought he was… I thought he was a man of his word, that he’d go to the end of the world for me, that he loved only me. That’s who I yearn for, and that is not who he is. That was something I imagined him to be. Those were his words, but his actions didn’t match.
Keep reminding yourself of the reality of the guy and what he is really like in real life that led you to make No Contact in the first place!
I like what you said to “meant.” And we need to remind ourselves of that. When we went NC on the guy because we were tired of the drama and the roller coaster ride, if the guy had been so in love with us like we thought he was, he would have done everything in the world to make it a real relationship. Instead, they let it go or sometimes give lazy attempts to see if we’re still available to be the fall back girl.
Hang in there! Your journey is helping other women!
@Lisa – thanks for reminding me of what I’m doing – exactly. Thinking of him in a way that I want him to be – not who he really is (lied and cheated). He said so many things to me over the years, my favorite being “I’m like gum on the bottom of your shoe – you’ll never get rid of me” and “You’ve made me the happiest person in the world – I’ll never leave you” blah blah blah. I thought he’d never do anything to hurt me or risk our relationship. But the reality is, he did hook up with another chick for a few months when she came along, and maybe in hindsight he thinks it was a mistake, but in reality, he hoped he’d never get caught and life would have gone on just fine for him and me together (until another came along I suppose).
He wants me to forgive him – he wants me back. He claims I’m the love of his life and he’ll never feel this way about anyone else and he’s not even going to bother looking — but in the meantime he signed up for a dating service and has been talking and probably dating others… So what am I to think?!?
Is he just protecting himself because he knows that I will never forgive him? Is it wrong of him to not want to be alone and to be with other women at this point when I’ve told him I dont know what I want yet and at this point have not forgiven him? If thats true – why does he say there will be no others and he’ll wait for me to make my decision? Just trying to look good in my eyes? I’m so confused. I dont think I can ever trust him again but I cant seem to slam the door. Is it me?
Like Lisa says, your journey is helping other women Anusha. Tell you what – next time you feel unsure just think “what would I tell someone else” because I see you giving good advice then asking questions about your own situation as if it is totally different in your case – it ain’t sweetie and you do know the answers, you just need to let yourself see them. That’s the hard part.
When does the longing go away? I’m not sure it happens fast, but understanding comes and mitigates it. I’m poking wounds listening to music I know for sure he has listened to and really identified with, I can even see him picturing himself as the guitarist – it’s new to me but not to him – and I am allowing myself to cry for the man I loved because oh my god that man was so perfect. He might have been an ugly spud but he cared – he was so going to be there – he longed to be with me, couldn’t tell me how crazy he was about me, thought of me all the time, I made him feel so good and the sex (well at a distance) was great, The perfect, perfect tortured would be musician who had grown up and realised he was past all that, kicked smoking and booze and who only wanted to be with me.
Shame he didn’t actually exist. I let myself cry about him today a little in the supermarket but it was mourning the actual death of something I knew was never alive and ultimately it wasn’t about him, or that he would also have felt hurts when he listened to this music. Nah.
And I consider it healthy. Do I still long for him? Yeah I long for that him. Would I give him so much as one of my eyelashes, or a cough? No way.
***
Still not sure what has happened with the neighbours but looks like one of the people who died was my neighbour’s father: possible that they are JUST away. I truly hope so.
The second thing is that this guy I was mentioning the other day has asked me to celebrate passing the exam I was helping him with. I’ve said yes 🙂
@ Butterfly – oh YaY! A date. Have fun, Missy!
love, Leonine
QT, you asked
” So what am I to think?!?
Is it wrong of him to not want to be alone and to be with other women at this point when I’ve told him I dont know what I want yet and at this point have not forgiven him? If thats true – why does he say there will be no others and he’ll wait for me to make my decision? I’m so confused. ”
Forget what to think, here is what to KNOW. All of the above are true with a rubber-bandy- man. The only thing that you need to know is though you he may consider you “the love of his life,”, his definition of love is stunted, emo-lite, and unfulllfilling compared to your definition of love. Maybe his love-lite is right for someone else, but it is not right for you.
And you can wish his love was different all you want, but if that miracle were to occur, and he changed, you would not be confused. Real love is secure and stable. Confusion and shifting sands are the foundations of a relationship with the EUM.
Anusha, plan to give yourself a good year to get over the EUM. Might take less, and then you’d be feeling good that it took less than a year. I hope every month has been better for you so far, and just use that to keep on keepin on.
Meant. could report in nightly please ;-)) We know you can take care of yourself and all but, we’d like to hear some details. It’s like a battle and we want you to leave victorious.
AMEN aphrogirl, yes we do!!!!!!!
@ meant – you are so strong – hope you make it through this, truly you’ve done so much better than a lot of us, well certainly better than I would have done under the circumstances. The temptation would have been just too great from day one, so whilst I hope you don’t cave in, and I agree that the slippery slope is just a hug away, you are making progress. This is NOT a sanction to slide though!!!
There’s been talk about that yearning which I would have understood in the past, I would get shaky at the thought of never seeing the AC again which I understand is the addiction part of things. I’ve also noticed though that I am much happier when he is not around, and I can’t understand this bit.
If he’s away, he’s a professional fisherman so often goes out in the afternoon and doesn’t come back till the next morning, then I am relieved because I know he’s not around for me to see/ lust after/ get annoyed at the new woman hanging onto him. When he’s around though I am drawn like a robot towards him.
If I were addicted I would surely want him all the time. When I used to smoke I would go crazy at the thought of no cigarettes being available, but with the AC I am relieved that the temptation is not there. but then if you took him away completely I’d go nuts.
Crazy thinking, has anyone got a view on this? Is it the security blanket thing of holding onto what we know? But then why the relief when the blanket is gone?
Sorry sometimes I wish I didn’t think so much, talk about over analytical!
@ sadthing
a) “If I were addicted I would surely want him all the time. When I used to smoke I would go crazy at the thought of no cigarettes being available, but with the AC I am relieved that the temptation is not there. but then if you took him away completely I’d go nuts.”
No, you’re losing your addiction slowly
b) You are happier when he isn’t around cos your addiction isn’t to HIM
c) A professional fisherman? Holy mackrel, Batman, please tell me he had something to say that wasn’t about fish!!
I have said it before and I will say it again: time to stop looking back at one very unimportant man.
x
Thanks Butterfly, I think that the addiction is slowly fading.
Yes he’s a fisherman, and his conversations, such as they are, are about fish, fishing and boats. Well I’m from the UK, brought up on the north coast of Scotland, my father sailed yachts so the sea is in my blood too (hence the soulmate bit) however I am interested in people and societies, and the AC’s interested in ……fish!
Oh and in sex too. That’s why I would never ever have lived with him, I read books, am curious about the world – he goes fishing, sees women as sex objects, and has never read a book in his life.
This is what perplexes me, knowing all this and actually doing something about it seem to be impossible – that’s why I am so impressed by all those who have gone NC and stuck with it. Even dropping off the NC perch is not the end of the world as long as you get back on it again.
Anyway I’m going away next week to the frozen north of Europe so maybe a dose of cold air will clear the fug!
Well long story cut short. I was in an affair with an AC for over 2 years until I realized that he has all along another OW before me. I walked away from him and told the OW of my existence. Well, she decided to stay with him until now. We have the same circle of friends. I have maintained NC on and off for over a year but sometimes see each other at some social functions. He has kicked me to the curb. I realized that he has been targeting all the women around our circle – so sick! The OW keeps taking him back and hates all his other girlfriends. I am glad that I have opted out but to tell the truth, I don’t know why I still miss that jerk! It’s been tough but I want to be strong. Can someone share their experience as the OW with me? How to break this relationship permanently? The OW told her friends that this man declares his love for her and I told them that it is his way to get her hook up because he has no other women to chase after unless he discovers some new blood! That poor stupid girl just refuses to listen. It hurts me even now that he doesn’t truly feel sorry for what he has done to me including a decent closure. I have to rely on this website for support, reading all the real life stories reassure me of my determination. I’ve been in tears for over a year and he doesn’t know all the suffering I went through. It’s sad.
Crystal … you don’t want him to enjoy it all the more do you? Be glad he doesn’t know. Those tears have to dry sometime or another hon…
@sadthing being from the UK doesn’t excuse you for a fishy man!!! I am from the UK too, sounds like you had and AnglerClown. LOL. Where you travelling to?
Crystal, I was thinking the same thing as Butterfly. If he knew how much you were suffering, it would probably boost his ego.
That is sad stuff. I agree.
At some point, you will get tired of mourning, and you’ll pick yourself up and hold your head high and let the other woman have him without looking back. Let her share him with someone else! You shouldn’t have to share a guy with someone else unless that is what you want to do. And, since you’re here, my guess is you want something better!
They don’t give you decent closure… that’s why “no contact” is not for them, it’s for you! You give it to yourself.
Posting here and reading what other people’s coping strategies are really helps. You’ll be okay!
Thank you leonine,lisa,butterfly and aphorogirl for answering me 🙂 Im fully convinced by now that the EUM isnt good for me and that I should be away from him but the yearning is still there.Is the only tie conecting me to him yet and I just wish it would go away.The fact that he acted like if he couldnt care less about me makes me even more bothered about it,I mean how I can want so much a guy that doesnt care about me? Is like I just want to give him back all the indiference that he gave to me all those years.
I realy apreciated the coment about my jorney helping other women,it is good to know I can help others with my experience.And right give advice to others is so much easier than actualy follow then.Maybe I should start following my own advices from now on too.
Thanks for responding Aphrogirl. I get so sucked in when he tells me how much he wants me and misses me. You feel so special when someone says they cant live without you — meanwhile they are living just fine and dandy without you. Why feed me the BS? He’s totally fine without me and I know in my head if we tried again, there would be plenty of pain coming my way from him because he cant be open and honest about anything. It’s the damn heart and the longing and the addiction that’s a killer and keeps me coming back. Ugh.
Crystal – I know its easy for an outsider to say, but you are lucky to be rid of this guy. What a jerk. Think of it as a good thing that he didn’t suck up more of your time and years with his assclownery. You were strong to walk away and how very strong to maintain NC for so long. It sounds like you are stronger than you think!
aega
during running around today I thought of your headless paintings and of the headless statue I plan to carve one day ( a long off topic story !)
Your explain sounds just like something logical one reads next to a painting in an art show, and as art is how some people get to difficult stuff its probably pretty relevant.
Most of us can totally relate to feeling objectified by the EUM. Not just for our bodies, but also as being a ” thing” to acquire. Just another dismal trademark of the flea ridden EUDogM. It’s all about the hunt, the hook and the playing the line with the fish ( till the fish is exhausted). It’s all about the thrill of the acquisition, and then if you run into a particularly nasty AC ,once they’ve got you it’s all about the letting go, the discarding.
I know I sound sad and a little bitter, but I really don’t feel that way. Writing is how I get the stuff out these days. NC is so great, I feel really better every day.
Butterfly, Lisa and QT thanks for the support. It’s not easy for me to walk this far. That’s the worst part of getting involved with a AC, though your reason tells you you are lucky to get out, your passion always have some kind of reluctance to fully let go. The investment of your time, love, care and sharing for someone who doesn’t exist, the past fake memories is very hard to accept. I am just human and the moments of thinking the two of them kissing and making love to each other really hurts. You are right, why do I have to stroke his ego if he knows that he still occupies a place in my heart. I went from shock, grief and now to accept. I am very glad that I can get my support from this site. Girls, hang in there, don’t let your passion overcome your reason and prolong the agony. Accept that man will say whatever they can to string you along. Actions speaks louder than words. If one wants to be out, he will definitely be out. Don’t take crap. It’s not easy for sure but at least don’t sacrifice long term gain. I am again writing this in tears, a very broken heart:-(
For you ladies with the married guy/other woman scenario – here is my 2 cents – I have some experience with the matter so I’m not judging at all – just commenting. I hope in some way it makes you feel better about being out of it!
The problem with the whole situation is that as wonderful and perfect and passionate as the relationship may seem:
1) the likelihood he’ll leave his spouse is slim and you’re going to end up hurt
2) if he does leave his spouse, when he’s strapped financially, or his kids don’t want to see him or he feels left out of the family loop, he will resent you, no matter how unfair that is, it will happen, he will take out his resentment for you in some manner, and you will get hurt
3) also, if he does leave his spouse, you will always and forever wonder if and when he will turn around and leave you too. Your ground is forever shaky – you know what he’s capable of which includes juggling women and lying to women to get what he wants and to save his butt on a daily basis, The more you’re with him, the more you’ll start doubting things he says because there’s no guessing about his ability to lie – you know firsthand that the man can lie. You will be hurting thinking about all of this and having zero security in the relationship
and 4) at some point, unfortunately, because of who he is, he probably will either start looking, cheating and/or leave you too because what he’s looking for is that constant source of passion, That level of fear that creates passion and comes with doing something ‘wrong’. Once you’re officially together — he’s going to start looking. Or at the very least, you will always feel like he’s going to start looking. Because if he can do it to one woman, he can do it to the next. You can’t keep up the pace and passion of an affair. When it wears off and real life kicks in, he’ll get restless again, and he’ll think maybe you arent the one for him after all. This will give him license to go find passion with someone new. And you will be hurt.
Be careful what you wish for when it comes to these guys. Its easy to feel he married the wrong person and if only he’d met you first — but in reality — if he’d met you first, you’d be the one he was cheating on or leaving.. It’s all about them. And it always will be all about them. Try to be just be glad you have your life back and you dodged a giant bullet.
@Butterfly – have fun on your date! Hope it goes well. The text sounded promising to me, but whaddo I know? 🙂 It’s SO hard to tell in the early stages. Hope he is worthy of your time.
Thank you for the well wishes. I’m doing well. I feel ok with everything. He called me last night, but I didn’t pick up and haven’t returned it. Just don’t really feel like it. I have to keep reminding myself he’s not really…secretly…deep down there somewhere…in love with me. Duh. But I think I’m going to set the pace/tone to friends/aquaintances, and he’ll have no choice but to follow suit. If he is unhappy with no sex, he can bite it! He always said he valued my friendship and my company so much – well, let’s see. It’s his only option now.
Luv.
.-= PlanetJane´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
crystal , you asked
“How to break this relationship permanently? ”
Do you know that anti drug slogan Drugs Lie ? So here maybe we should have one that says Arseclowns Lie. The thing with AC’s is they are like relationship crack, as NML wisely penned. And like any drug, it starts off so innocent, kinda fun but as you slip in deeper with an AC you end up hollow eyed, weak and your heart and soul have taken a hit.
I spose like any unhealthy addiction we have to realize its not the smokes, the booze, the drugs or the cruel AC antics per se that is the problem. It’s how we react to those unhealthy things, and our attraction to them still when we realize they are fakes and we are hurting from knowing them.
We are all seeking to give and receive love and deep adventure and contentment and such. And somehow I think we know those things need to come from within us and are within us. But drugs, AC’s and liars do their best to take those good things that you have inside away from you and they truly are not capable of giving love back.
You found he is something you need to stay away from, and you should be proud of that accomplishment. Now you get to look hard at why you are sort of still wanting that bad thing. Maybe it was just being too trusting or naive, this one time and you cannot believe you would have been so betrayed, or maybe there is some wishful thinking, projection, fantasizing, denial …the list goes on.
Many if us have done so many of these things. NML has written great posts on all of these ideas. No matter the why exactly, it is a big learning experience and time spent focusing on the reality of the situation will break the desire for any relationship and heal some of the hurt.
For me part of recovering from the EUM/AC is an exercise in finding all that was good and whole and beautiful inside of me before the AC came, took so much and in return left a pile of AC poop in the place where all the love came from, the little sh*thead ..
What really amazed me about my EUM relationship was after over a year and a half together he changed dramatically in a short period of time. One minute we were planning our life together and the next he was sneaking around cheating. It was absolutely crushing to me. It was only then that I started to look back and see all the red flags I had missed. I trusted him completely and the betrayal was devastating. Even though I broke up with him last year he still tries to contact me, especially since he left the woman that he cheated on me with. For so long I was depressed and grieving, now I’m just apathetic. I’ve finally reached a point after months of NC that I can look away from him and not want to be with him. BUT I still miss what I thought we had together. That happy year and a half that I trusted him. The last six months before the end was hell. I never want to go through that with any man again. It galls me that he thinks we should be in touch. He just will not let go but it has nothing to do with loving me. It’s that he thinks he’s so irresistable that no woman can reject him. Well I hope he’s enjoying the rejection. I can hold my head up and say that I was the one to walk away from him in the end.
@aphrogirl “For me part of recovering from the EUM/AC is an exercise in finding all that was good and whole and beautiful inside of me before the AC came, took so much and in return left a pile of AC poop in the place where all the love came from, the little sh*thead ..”
Well, does it help to know somone else read your words and laughed at this “tawdry little man”? I hope so. Maybe flushed a bit of his crap out of the system?
@Meant WHERE ARE YOU? OK following from that one above let’s turn up the volume for you, imagine him in an incontinence pad full of shit, since you need an exterior visual to match the inner reality!
If (and I hope so very much this is not the case) you have succumbed to his advances it is not too late to start damage limitation. You already know for a fact what will happen with him – maybe say to him “Thanks for the shag, it passed some time didn’t it, doesn’t mean we’re back on though. It’s still over and that was the last time. BYE”. His ego probably won’t like it too much but if he has just got his jollies it shouldn’t make him vindictive cos he will think you are doing him a favour. What he thinks is irrelevant though, it’s how you feel that matters.
Even better if you held out of course, we’re all behind you here 🙂
@PJ – yeah! “I just don’t feel like it” is how I am sure I’d feel after the initial shock. Indifference to him is awesome stuff, setting your boundaries even more so, just don’t let him make you invest in him as a friend? Thanks for your wishes with the date, I’m not investing into it the way I did with the Narc because to be honest I have never been into anything with ANYONE like him and the signs make me politely smile and become as boring as possible right away. I get very different signals here, including that he said I could bring my (gay male) friend with me if I preferred. I know this friend irritated the hell out of him last time, but politeness here would be to make a woman feel she is safe (and this guy is a detective who works with rehabilitating young offenders). I appreciated that touch. We’ll see … the one thing I can say for sure is that whilst I do actually find this man very physically alluring we won’t be ending up in bed together!
Not yet. LOL.
@myalmostlover If it is any consolation apathy is your psyche giving you some space. I went through that phase too, which is when I made myself go to the gym.
The xeum and I played a bit of phone tag tonight, and I thought how my message must have sounded bummed or depressed, and at first I thought of how he’d see that as a deficiency in me – or maybe I would. But I just realized that it’s because he makes me sad. He does. He’s hurt me.
I want someone, a man, who can inspire me, make me feel good and happy and happy to be alive and excited, and grateful, and interested and engaged…and maybe mad or irritated sometimes, and maybe a little sad, but never devastated, hurt, betrayed, humiliated, devalued and disgraced.
Really, about him and his friendship, I feel obligated and guilty.
PJ PJ please please please … I’m begging you here. Tell him he makes you unhappy and tell him to leave you alone.
Yeah you want a man like that, and what you are doing now is making sure you can’t have one.
I still am thinking about my ex, but should he ever have the balls to approach me (he won’t, he’s scared of me) I am fifty times less likely to respond well even than a few days ago watching Meant and you suffer. He’s poison … pure poison … to someone else he might not be and to be honest the best thing would be to let him go and you know it. All your post makes me ache, truly, for you. The drugs don’t work, huh? The highs don’t come … the best you can be is numb … and he is getting off on your misery.
You have no need to feel obligated and guilty, he inspires and uses these very mechanisms to keep you managed and accessible. It’s hard to walk away but you have EVERY right to say look … this ain’t right. I don’t like the person I am around you. If you care, leave me alone and if you don’t care f*** off.
***
Oh the lyrics of songs. It’s always music that gets me … still listening to Velvet Revolver cos there’s not been chance to change my ipod list, and also to Godsmack. Godsmack is hysterical, waaa waaa waaaa crybaby crap about emotional unavailability writ large and without any repentance.
Time to change. Music lets him have backstage access, where he isn’t welcome any more. He isn’t on the Guest List. He is not a VIP.
I’m going to fill my ipod with comedy. BRITISH comedy which he wouldn’t get and used to sneer at as not being funny … cos he didn’t get it and hadn’t found it first, natch.
LOL and my date just cancelled on me. Here we go huh?
PlanetJane- It seems that being “friends” with your ex isnt doing you any good.Like NML said we need to pay atention what make us fell good and opt out from the things that make us fell bad.I think that would be important for your relationship with yourself.You dont need to please him or do the “right thing”,if doesnt fell good do what is best for you and walk away.
Ick – sorry about the married man rant last night – a close friend is jumping in to that situation with both feet and I’m soooo worried she’s going to come out hurt and destroyed 🙁
Sorry about the cancellation Butterfly. I dont know if the reason is valid or not but if it’s not — it’s nice he gave you a big red flag without wasting too much of your time!!
QT,
Your post is very accurate….
But, while we are in it, while we are playing the other woman who wishes he was telling the truth about divorce, and telling us the truth about loving us and only wanting us, we OW feel that our relationship is more special and different than all the ones that went before us.
It isn’t until hind sight that I could have actually read what you wrote in your 4 points and actually believed it and understood it. Took a good chunk of time to get to that point.
Maybe some women who play the OW on a regular basis learn that lesson, but they don’t care, so they try it again with someone else, but for me, once learned, I will never go there or make that mistake again. It was the most painful, and yet the most eye-opening lesson I have ever learned about myself and relationships. I hope that any other women who logs on here today or in the future can read what you wrote and start to believe it, and save themselves another year or more of trouble.
They rarely leave, and they all lie.
Lesson learned!
Hi girls,I was reading a few of NML’s posts again and thinking about my believes about love.I think I have a twisted idea about love.I mean like I said before the first years of my relationship with my ex he seemed very interested about the relationship,was sweet,romantic,caring and so on but didnt treat me well.And by then I thought that meant that he loved me but thinking better about it I wonder,love somebody and treat that person bad doesnt match right? I mean even though he acted like if “he had both feet on the relationship” the fact that he treated me bad was a sign that he realy didnt love me right? I would like to know what you all think about that.
Culturally there will be a lot of celebrating for this guy this weekend, back in his home town and with family as it’s admission to the UN and acheivement of an ambition. I’ve let this fall into “plausable” and I’m actually really please for him, plus he let me know the day before not the last minute. So, I am not going to worry about it – and as QT says, if it isn’t genuine then I found out very early so … job is a good’un!
@ Anusha – I think it’s ALL to do with our beliefs about love/men/romance… so much of it stems from ourselves and our own imaginations it becomes scary!
In this short time of being on board here, I’ve sort of tracked down many, many weird (and previously supposedly wonderful notions) of what I thought “love” was – and few of them contained anything of day-to-day practicalities!
One such realisation hit me again today: My “ideal version of male love” was, when I was a very young girl, impressed on me through the film version of “Wuthering Heights”. You know, HEATHCLIFFE and his intense devotion and declarations: he wanted Cathy to live with him, and him alone, out in the grey house and bleak moors gathering armfuls of heather… blah blah blah.
But just imagine that FOR REAL????? Just me and my man, lumping around with each other, going nowhere, seeing no one, doing nothing much with our lives???? Aaaaahhhhh. Where was my head?
Some years later, I had to read the actual novel Wuthering Heights for my exams – and it couldn’t have been more different from the film! Heathcliffe was never meant to be the epitome of “love”. On the contrary, he was meant to be a destructive force in Cathy’s life – and he was.
It was Cathy’s daughter and Heathcliffe’s nephew Hareton, who made a proper go of a relationship – with work and effort and actions and then communication.
I think, without realising it, Heathcliffe still lurks somewhere in my id and I might have been “seeking him out” to some extent in the men I’ve been ear-marking.
No more! Heathcliffe is being well and truly exorcised! I don’t want idle devotions and declarations. I want to get up and get out and get on; so, if I can find a partner who ADDS to that and whose ACTIONS show how he feels…. that’s my new version of the “ideal male love”.
When you think of it, the rubbish we’ve picked up along our ways (through films, stories, songs, etc) are really quite damaging; and certainly no basis for building a real life partnership on.
love, Leonine
@Leonine — “When you think of it, the rubbish we’ve picked up along our ways (through films, stories, songs, etc) are really quite damaging; and certainly no basis for building a real life partnership on”
Couldn’t agree more! I complain about that on my facebook all the time — I love the romantic comedy but it has surely ruined my love life! Between those and that ‘Disney princess’ crap — no wonder we have these crazy notions 🙂
I love this website – it has truly saved me from being a complete mess. Thank you to everyone who contributes their stories — it helps so much to know you are not alone.
Lol QT… those dire, dreadful Disney Princess thingies should come with the warning: “Don’t Try This At Home”.
love, Leonine
Butterfly………You really nailed it. I’m starting to exercise again but it’s tough going because I’m so apathetic. I literally have to push myself but when I get going, I feel better. I imagine apathy is a form of depression. I’m having a hard time getting back out there. My trust in men has been shaken by this whole experience.
@ leonine, Heathcliffe was my dream man too, all those brooding looks, smouldering passion, inner pain – it appealed from a very early age, I always liked George Harrison from the Beatles too, the dark, soulful one, and to this day I’ve consistently fallen for the same types.never a light hearted pale skinned man, always the darker skinned ‘deep’ ones.
I live in the southern Med now, and the AC fitted the bill perfectly, only now I realise that to be soulful you actually need a soul!
@ Butterfly, sorry your date canceled but it could be genuine and he has given warning so who knows.
I’m leaving temperatures of over 34 to go to Norway – the thermal shock and long daylight hours may help me see clearly. LOL
Oooo, sadthing – have a coldly, icily, frostily brilliant time!
love, Leonine.
@sad thing – “I always liked George Harrison from the Beatles too, the dark, soulful one, and to this day I’ve consistently fallen for the same types.never a light hearted pale skinned man, always the darker skinned ‘deep’ ones”
How crazy – same for me! Loved George. Loved James Taylor up to and including the sad and soulful heroin addiction! Never look twice at the happy blue eyed/blonde fellows — always the dark eyed, dark hair, quiet, deep, brooders who never want you to focus on anything or anyone but them. If you dare take your attention away to tend to yourself or your family, he’s immediately looking elsewhere for someone else to put all their focus on him! (And of course, without even talking to you about how he feels – you’re just supposed to somehow know).
Thanks for the coments everybody.I do think we have some twisted believes.But the funiest thing is that I used to fell much more loved when he treated me bad than later on.Not that I liked being treated bad or anything like that but more because he seemed to care about the relationship,it seemed to be important to him.But even so is strange that I can fell loved with somebody treating me bad dont you think?
Anusha – you may have already done so along the way, but would you mind giving some examples of how he treated you badly during the relationship?
It might actually be enlightening – sometimes we are being treated badly and we don’t even realize it :0
“never a light hearted pale skinned man, always the darker skinned ‘deep’ onesâ€
Ha! the clown was so pale as to be paler than ME, and was the class clown… still an asshat tho. It means nothing, they are all shapes sizes colours and smells!!!!
@sadthing have a good time out there, I haven’t been to Norway but it is said to be beautiful. If you have to think of sharing all you see (cos I do this with titface sometimes) then think this: we are looking forward to hearing from you about YOU and what YOU did and YOU felt and saw 🙂
I’m not too bummed out about the date, mainly cos I actually do think he will come good. What am I basing this on? Lack of fear.
Lack of fear.
It’s great, not being afraid.
Not like with these assholes, who made me so anxious I felt ill!
I wish I could edit! I want to share something that just happened.
Before I really starting trying to see past the last idiot being the problem I was talking to someone online, betting on potential etc. I know now I was anyway, at the time I couldn’t have admitted it. Anyway this guy sends me the occaisional mail which clearly are bait to hook up in some way and the last three times I replied were literally “I am not interested in these little hooks” to paraphrase. The last one I didn’t answer. I just turned on MSN to see if my friend is there (female) and could see she was not but this guy is.
I don’t want to talk to him but in the past I’d have thought “oh he isn’t on much” and I’d have connected visibly. I took to going invisible when still trying to get away from Narky and struggling with my addiction and haven’t changed it yet. However today I felt absolutely no compulsion to do it and just closed MSN as she clearly isn’t around.
Are you listening PJ? We owe them NOTHING unless they are giving in some way too.
Plus … I sense a change in me. I like what is happening inside me, I struggle sometimes just like we all do and I am often annoyed at how I still think about my mirage but I don’t want to compromise the good energy coming to me right now by grubbing about in the dirt of these tawdry little boy men.
@Leonine – “Lol QT… those dire, dreadful Disney Princess thingies should come with the warning: “Don’t Try This At Homeâ€.
Oh so true!! Imagine all the damage they’ve done to little girls all over the world. Just watch Bridezilla 😉 And all those dreadful love songs, and love stories and RomComs. Puhlease.
@Sadthing – I always had a thing for Paul McCartney myself – love the chipper, outgoing ones! George Harrison never did it for me. Maybe we all have our particular achilles heel.
.-= PlanetJane´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
@ QT too right about the brooders turning into sulkers as soon as your attention was not totally on them, and I must confess that even in the height of my ‘love’ for the AC I would sometimes think ‘ oh for god’s sake lighten up’ all that I am a victim stuff could get a bit wearing.
@ PJ – Chipper, outgong ones? didn’t know AC’s came in this variety! Or was Paul McCartney an early girlish fantasy. Who was it in the Monkees then? For me predictably it was Davy Jones.
@ Leonine and Butterfly, thanks for the holiday good wishes. My only fear (apart from the cold) is that Norway is full of fishermen for whom I have a weakness. OK they are likely to be pale and blond so not my type – but given my tendency to go for LDR’s I can see the dangers.
I really have learned to much from this site and everyone’s stories that I can’t see me repeating the same patterns ever again, once I’ve broken the addiction to the dark miserable selfish fisherman with the smoldering looks and the devastating smiles – both of which mean absolutely nothing as they are just learned behaviours guaranteed to work on women.
Thats the point, most of their behaviour is learned and not genuinely from the heart, and this is where we all go wrong, we’re interpreting it as we would our own behaviour, and it’s not like us at all, it really is an act. This I struggle with, to always be putting on some kind of act must just be exhausting, but then if there is no real person inside, then this must be normal for them. If they weren’t so sh*tty it would be sad.
Thanks to all.
“Thats the point, most of their behaviour is learned and not genuinely from the heart, and this is where we all go wrong, we’re interpreting it as we would our own behaviour, and it’s not like us at all, it really is an act. This I struggle with, to always be putting on some kind of act must just be exhausting, but then if there is no real person inside, then this must be normal for them. If they weren’t so sh*tty it would be sad.”
No they are FUNNY. If it wasn’t hurtful to people they are FUNNY. They are CLOWNS, and like clowns they are sad people who are actually creepy. Learn to laugh and avoid, but preferably without paying attention that they can see.
Funny actually. I am finding a liking for blonds with blue eyes lately …
@ sadthing – now, gurl, if you come back with another stinky fisherman of any hair-colour I won’t know what to advise…except, maybe –
up your gutting techniques;
wear black nets A LOT;
be really jokey (codding around);
and stop washing yourself!
love, Leonine
@Butterfly,
Sorry I didn’t get a chance to post on here last night. I did slip back into my usual way of hanging out with him yesterday. Hard to break old habits, I guess. In the evening (after I was done my presentation and feeling relieved and “celebratory”) I drank a little too much, told my ex some kinda mean things (e.g., asked him why someone as awesome as me (his description) should bother with him, pointed out how he always brings conversations back to talking about himself, told him I had always felt way down his priority list when we were together, etc, etc). He couldn`t even come up with positive qualities in himself, so I felt a bit better about his inability to think of positive qualities that he appreciated about me when I had asked him in the past.
Regardless of me being mean to him, he still wanted a hug in the evening, which led to a kiss, which led to some words just flowing on their own out of my mouth asking him if he wanted to join me in my room for a while (i know, i know,..). So we kissed again, and did some other things (but not “all the way”) and cuddled, and he almost stayed the night but we couldn`t sleep after an hour of trying, so I asked him if he’d like to leave`.He took me up on my “escape” offer (it was 4am, after all!!!).
So yes, I have slipped even more down that slope. He asked me what our status was now, and I told him we are still just colleagues. He was very sweet this morning, calling to make sure I woke up on time, bringing me a cup of tea, just being very attentive. I said it was going to be weird just going back to not seeing him again, and he just said “we’ll cope”. It sounded like it wasn’t going to be as difficult for him as I imagine it will be for me (similar to the one post lisa wrote about her ex), so that helped for me to go back to feeling frustrated with him.
It *was* difficult to say goodbye to him this afternoon, but I still feel somewhat numb, and I think I’m gonna be OK with not wanting to go back to how we were before we broke up. I won’t have to see him through work for another several months, so that will really help.
The only thing is, I do feel weird about going back to NC, now that we have gotten back to that kind of friendly relationship. I know a lot has been written on here about how it’s pointless to be friends with them, but I will feel rude if I just go right back to NC.
I am running on only 2 hours sleep, so will need time to process. I haven’t had chance to read all the posts on here yet – will hope to do that tomorrow.
I was weak, and didn’t stay NC, but I still have hope that I can get back on the track to healing. I’m really looking forward to my first appointment with my therapist.
I hope everyone is well, and thanks again sooo much for all support…
@Meant “The only thing is, I do feel weird about going back to NC, now that we have gotten back to that kind of friendly relationship. I know a lot has been written on here about how it’s pointless to be friends with them, but I will feel rude if I just go right back to NC. ”
Please please please read my comment and other people’s comments to PJ.
See, in the middle of it all you can’t see what has happened but he knew all this. Those “mean” things you said were truths. That made you higher in his estimation and he was even more determined to have you.
Babes, you know what I will say. You HAVE to go NC … we’ll all be here when you get home, k?
@aphrogirl and sadthing
thanks for the votes of confidence – and sorry I didn’t live up to them fully 🙁
sadthing, I know what you mean about yearning for the EUM, but feeling better when they’re not around. Seeing my ex in person for 5 days in a row was just too much for my willpower to take right now, but I am trying to be positive and be glad that at lest for the first 3 days I managed to avoid getting totally and quickly sucked back in.
I am so looking forward to the peace that his physical absence will hopefully bring!!!
@ Meant:
Ooo, Babes! I hope you recover from this encounter quickly. But (no criticism intended whatsoever) you must be more proactive in this. His staying or leaving shouldn’t be dependent on his decision; Contact or No Contact mustn’t be at his agreement or not; and your peace really has not got to be left to whether or not his is here or there.
In these several coming months in which you don’t expect to see him again (and, I think, after this encounter you perhaps should expect him to turn up somehow or other) try teaching yourself to BE IN YOUR OWN HANDS AND SAY-SO.
I honestly wish you nothing but the very best.
love, Leonine.
QT- What I mean by my ex treating me bad is that he would do things like take out his anger from his problems on me so he would get mad and avoid me for no reason,he would ignore me and walk away instead of discuss things when we fighted,he would set up to talk with me and wouldnt show up,things like that for example.
sadthing-Your relationship with your ex was a LDR? Im asking that because you comented about your tendecy to LDRs.And I remember somebody else comented here too about having a LDR but I cant remember who was anymore.
Meant… I think you did OK cause if you truly left feeling that you took a step forward then you have done a good thing. If you left truly knowing that things will now start to fade instead of intensify then you have made progress. If you truly left knowing that what you feel for him is not good love, and if you left feeling that you want to wean yourself off the false love, if you left feeling that you want out of the fantasy that what you two share is meaningful…then you have gotten somewhere.
There is no benchmark for how fast we get out of these fantasy relationships, but it important to keep making progress away from the unhealthy patterns of behavior.
And I think you did all that and I hope you will keep thinking bout not feeding the fantasy anymore, not feeding the addiction next time it comes around. Let those things starve to death, so to speak, as they should.
@ Butterfly thank you for your feedback… I don’t think I’ll have to change phone numbers since he doesn’t call… You are right I have learned my lesson and life moves along .. and I have a little bit of pride in the fact I have not contacted him a really bad habit of mine to break.. thanks again and hope all is going well with you and all thiose on the journey of changing and keeping no contact from EUMs and Assclowns ….
Meant to be happy,
You’ll figure it out. I agree with what aphrogirl girl said “There is no benchmark for how fast we get out of these relationships”
For me, I just knew that getting together with the man I thought I loved “when he could fit it in” was not enough of a relationship for me. I wanted more, and he actually said there would be more, but it didn’t happen.
From what you have said here in your posts, your man never did actually promise anything more than what he now gives to you already, and he’s sticking to that. So, at least you know what you have and what kind of guy you are dealing with.
At some point, you’ll figure out if this is what you want.
It just seems to me that if he really wanted a total relationship with you, he would put both feet into the relationship with you.
NC gets very hard when you’re stuck in traffic and can’t get decent radio reception and are in a dead zone for your cell. I was thinking today, while in the midst of a severe case of missing him, that I was being sentimental, and judging by his recent attempts to get my attention so is he. I was also thinking that we were both helpless romantics (Heathcliffe was my guy back when, too).
But that’s not it. Fitzgerald drew the following distinction between the two: “the sentimental person thinks that things will last — the romantic person has a desperate confidence that they won’t.” I suppose that makes them both naive but that’s another subject. As to being sentimental, I think it’s a gift that with varying degrees of success we carry over from being really young and innocent and good. There is a line I read this weekend, where one man thinks of another as, “unsentimental, almost incapable of affection, astute without being cunning, and vain without being proud.” Of the three the latter two apply to many. The first, however, is a loss that no one should have to experience, even though that’s how romantics are born.
I am currently in the process of self-validation as a romantic in letting myself feel hurt by circumstances I can’t help. I have reached a point, however, where I acknowledge that there will be more like this – meaning that I have already chalked it all up to experience and am now moulding my memories as fleeting happiness had. In the end, a romantic is not a fool as lore would have it, but a serial egotist who seeks out rapture, gives back while in the midst of it, but fully expects the indifference of the aftermath and claims its pain for herself – or herself — only.
There may be an ever-after for those who believe in it and I hope there is. Despite repeated hurt, many resist becoming jaded about the concept of sentimental love. It’s still out there to be had and in a curious way I’m looking forward to vicariously experiencing it through someone I care about. For me, I just want more rapture, more good script to be given to good actors, and I look forward to the mixed reviews I will give it later.
Well I thought I had reached Apathy, but it appears that I’m stuck in Bitter. Maybe it’s him or maybe it was just the DC traffic.
@aphrogirl, lisa, PJ, QT, Jupiter, aega, Butterfly, Leonine, Anusha, sadthing, etc
I just re-read some of your posts: aphrogirl said “But you are here because even though you are in the hole, you see a light up there. The solution is doable. Just start climbing out. Keep your eye on the light ahead, if you fall take a deep breath, a bit of a rest and keep climbing. It’s a long haul so stay positive. And though the hole is always dark, I promise the light does get brighter the closer you get to it.†– this is so helpful to me right now, as I am in the position of having fallen, and I am taking a deep breath and getting ready to resume the climb.
And in your story that included my situation: “And if there was a familiar comforting, distracting sexually charged EUM/ drug down the hall, I sure would be craving a fix of the thrill and comfort, and the distraction away from being alone in a strange hotel with me.†– yes. That’s just how it was!!! Are you sure you don’t know me? I was with other people until at least midnight most nights, but yes, it did feel just a little lonely being back in my room, and knowing he was so close by. I have definitely engaged in “junkie thinking†this week. Funny thing though, often I *do* like having alone time – I think it was just the “being away from home†thing that brought about that lonely feeling.
“The biggest lesson is to never let myself be drained like that again; not only is it a huge distraction but it does not do me or anyone else any good.†Well said. I am trying to stop the obsessive thoughts about him now that I am home. It’s funny, but over the course of the few days I was at the conference, I could literally feel my energy changing – from being productive, and “present†with the conference attendees and fellow organizers/presenters the first couple of days, to being distracted and diverted to being concerned about *him* over the last couple of days. It really was a drain on my emotions and thoughts and efforts to be an effective and authentic person.
@Planet Jane: “And part of me is worried I’ve opened the door for him to set up camp in my life again, and that I’ll have to expend my energy battling him off, or just maintaining adequate emotional distance from this person I can’t trust.†– I’m right there with you girl!! Thanks for sharing your story of breaking NC – we seem to be in a similar place as your thoughts of being friends with the EUM match mine pretty well!! (you too, QT).
Lisa: “You’ll be back to the exact place you were when you were desperately looking for something exactly like this site! And you’ll be hurting, and starting all over.†– strangely enough, I don’t feel like I am starting right from the beginning. But maybe that’s a false feeling, since I have seen him just this morning, so haven’t gone through the latest withdrawal stage yet. I guess time will tell…
@Jetred – I agree with your post to Butterfly: “Thank you for being a straight shooter and a fantastic support grumbling in the background as I find myself giving this slug credit for being human. He’s just a slug and doesn’t deserve to be thought of as any more than that.†I appreciate Butterfly’s take on things too 🙂
@Anusha – “he just go after you when is convenient for him. Like I said just concetrate on the actions and dont let the words fool you.†– yes, this is great advice!!!
@QT – I appreciate what you have written about being involved with MM, especially this: “You can’t keep up the pace and passion of an affair. When it wears off and real life kicks in, he’ll get restless again, and he’ll think maybe you arent the one for him after all. This will give him license to go find passion with someone new. And you will be hurt.†– I am reading this truth, and hoping it will help me to be strong about returning to NC.
My ex gave all the “too bad I didn’t find you before I committed to her†rubbish, and also told me he was surprised I was interested in him at all since I’m so “smart, attractive and physically fitâ€. Maybe I should listen to him!
@Leonine – I’m not so sure that he will “reappear†any time soon. When I went NC on him in July, he seemed to respect my wishes, and mentioned that he was trying to hold up his part of the (break-up) bargain by not contacting me over that 5 week period, as I requested. So I agree it really is all up to me – he seems to just take my lead, as far as contact is concerned anyway.
@aphrogirl (again!) – “if you left feeling that you want out of the fantasy that what you two share is meaningful…then you have gotten somewhere.†– yes, I do still want out, and don’t feel that “in love†feeling right now. It does feel more like an addiction, and I’m pleased to be able to distinguish between the two. I’m glad that even the physical aspects (which I was yearning for before) did not turn out to be as exciting as I anticipated this time around. Aphrogirl, I just love your posts – so full of insight and worded so well.
@lisa (again) – “It just seems to me that if he really wanted a total relationship with you, he would put both feet into the relationship with you.†– yes, I agree fully. When I asked him what our relationship had meant to him, he kept reassuring me that it was not all physical, but that he would want me for a life partner if he wasn’t already committed. He says he thinks of leaving his wife often, but doesn’t want to hurt her, then he turns around and says he especially doesn’t want to hurt me!! He doesn’t seem to understand how he could have hurt me in any way. I did thank him for not leading me on by lying about planning to leave his wife for me (I was thinking of your situation). He just sounds sooo sincere though, about really wanting to be with me instead of her – but obviously his actions speak volumes.
@Aega – here’s to reaching Apathy. May it come sooner rather than later for all of us here who seek it…
Sorry for the long post (which was mostly talking about myself) – I finally had some time to read and respond. I hope to return the favour and resume supporting others soon, once I’m back on track. Good night and best wishes to all.
Meant xo
@Meant,
“He just sounds sooo sincere though, about really wanting to be with me instead of her – but obviously his actions speak volumes.”
He had sent me a video of himself talking about our “relationship”. I watched it the other night (here’s to Self-Torment…) and all the I-can’t-be-without-yous sounded still ever so convincing. But he *is* without me. So many times over the past 7 months he’s said how he wants to just get in his car and drive, and not stop till he arrives at my door. Well, last time I checked, Kansas and Tennessee and all the other places he’d pass through had not shut down the freeways.
Which makes me wonder – would Wuthering Heights been a longer novel had Heathcliffe pursued Cathy from afar with a webcam?
Here’s a bit of good news. Try this on for size and see how it works for you: I was sitting on the edge of the bathtub just a little while ago after showering my dog and missing him. I tried to visualize him coming down the hallway and through the door to brush his teeth or what have you and…. my heart did not skip a beat! I looked at what I was thinking closely and realized that I was rather glad that I would get off my wet butt, mop up the tile, wash up and go to bed. And I was picturing doing all these things solo; fitting him into the picture felt disruptive.
I got the “what is someone like you doing with someon like me” line many times just as you did. Maybe both yours and mine were on to something here after all? 🙂
@aphrogirl “Let those things starve to death, so to speak, as they should.” Perfection, truly, you said it.
@Aega – If NC is difficult just because you are in a traffic jam consider this. You took a step away from a life which was entirely designed (at the time) to free you up to be WITH the guy. Now, he has rejected you not because he was fed up with your behaviour and emotional unavailability, but because the on/off switch in his head has flipped to off. You are vulnerable, can’t speak the language, your bridges were burned in your homeland by someone replacing you within a few days and the beacon of hope that shimmers in the distance is still sending you pulses. You are strong, you keep going, then on the first night in your new place the bar where you are drinking coffee decides to not only play a song which reminds you of him but plays the entire “definitive favourite album” of his. …
A little boredom is no excuse. Sorry. You need to gain some new things to do in that car of yours.
@Meant – don’t apologise for talking about yourself 🙂 I will drop you a line later when I am finished at work.
I ended up talking to that guy on MSN last night, out of curiousity. All my thoughts about him were confirmed, seemed to think we were going to pick up where we left off. He justified, tried to realign, said he was aware he had missed an opportunity and then ultimately said the ball was in his court (which I was more than happy about since it was his ball). I was fascinated to see how one dimensional the guy was, how he was pushing different buttons to see if they manipulated and how he said my “resistance” to him was making him hard. TMI probably, I actually took zero notice of this. The one thing he didn’t do was apologise for wasting my time … it wasn’t so much that he had red flags as he had a skin rash spelling out “tosser” on his forehead in big red spots. I was polite but firm, letting him know exactly where I stood and in the end with the ball still in his court he decided that talk time was over.
As I have said before, this is instant death with me. Conversations, two way, end naturally even when there is disagreement so bye bye Mr Assclown.
It’s a nice feeling and one I can apply to the real idiots mentioned above even if not yet entirely to my mirage man. Thing is, by starving my mirage man as aphrogirl says he is dying off.
@Brad
“We need to fill in for the Daddy that isn’t standing on the front porch, daring any Junior to ask permission to trifle with your . . . affections.” I’m laughing a lot despite crying a little because it’s such an apt allegory, even if it had been my Mom all the boys in highschool and college had feared… (my Dad was “cool”, meaning not easily torn away from a book or a plate of sushi). You have no idea how often this whole affair has struck me as juvenile and my role in it as that of a pawn when the chessboard is still full (I think I would have preferred it to be an affectation of the wealthy). It doesn’t make it hurt any less – after all, when you’re out of the game you’re out – but it does help me push the boulder up and over yet another hill when I think of it.
I don’t know about the recorder… My instrument has always been the piano, which might unfortunately prove a little unwieldy propped up in the passenger seat .Actually, traffic is usually the time to unwind and enjoy a moment of quiet, but today I had driven to a meeting about a 115 miles away and got stuck for over 4 hours on the way back. That’s a long time to belt out off-key 20-year-old hits, which is what I used to do before I became a suffering-and-consumptive-Victorian-romantic-in-training. Who knows, this newly silenced pensive version of me may even qualify my for a carpooling club.
I really am too tired to keep track of what I’m thinking before I type it out. Sleep first, logic later.
Aega,
I learned to play the recorder – blockflute – after college. I keep a cheap instrument in my car, and play snippets during waits at traffic lights, train crossings, and fast food lines. I have to be careful at the bank line – one of the tellers always loses my ticket for a time if I play, the difference can be a five minute longer wait.
And I never worry about radio stations or cells. Since I play memorized songs I actually watch the lights more closely while playing that if I was bored and listening to the radio, etc.
I think the ideal romantic is an expression of conspicuous consumption, an affectation of the wealthy. Stemming from a time of arranged marriages, the consequences of a poetic yearning were about the same as a prosaic acceptance of a given match.
I think if we take charge, and evaluate a companion prospect on merits – character, aptitude, interest in a long term arrangement or marriage – before turning loose with the romanticism, that romantics can flourish, albeit without part of the drama and pain that needn’t characterize (or become a bad habit for) the romantic.
We need to fill in for the Daddy that isn’t standing on the front porch, daring any Junior to ask permission to trifle with your . . . affections.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..br: The practice doll =-.
@Butterfly,
It’s like you were in the car with me… the song that made me immediatly switch the station was “What Might Have Been”. OK, maybe not immediately since I did indulge myself and wallowed for the first few bars. The second station was in the middle of “So Happy Together”. I turned the thing off then, afraid that I’d run into Kelly Clarkson before I reached NPR… 🙂
@Meant…
Well, I was coming to rescue you, but I got distracted looking for the rosary beads and the holy water. I think I used it all with my x-fool.
Did I mention to you all that I suspect viagra use with my AC? Was sitting here crying about wondering if I am feminine enough…aand I thought of that. Then I thought about Butterfly. LOL Funny how my face is wet and my eyes are red, but I can’t help thinking about his flaws and LMBO. Ahhh…love and recovery!
BTW…yEAH…this is day two of the period.
@ Butterfly:
“it wasn’t so much that he had red flags as he had a skin rash spelling out “tosser†on his forehead in big red spots.”
I’m memorizing this, Butterfly, because I’m determined to quote it verbatim to someone someday, lolololol
love, Leonine
LOL – even if it doesn’t sink in maybe you’ll enjoy saying it if someone really deserves it.
Yanno, I am in a great mood today. It’s like the less of these bozos get to claim my time the lighter my step is. I never realised how much they drag you down even when you don’t consciously think about them. Plus, I didn’t stop listening to Velvelt Revolver but I don’t really think about him either … thanks aphrogirl!
@Meant OK, when I started talking to Narky (that suits him cos he often was in a crappy mood) again and was thinking “omg can it be true?” (answer = no of course not you silly woman) I noticed that the high wasn’t really really there for long but that the dragging anxiety feeling hit and stayed. I’m not going to join in where people have said “be careful” … nah. There’s wish fulfillment going on in that direction, right back into the rubbish that was there before. You already know now that the world doesn’t end with this guy not in it, that the idea of him is better than the actual reality no matter how nice a voice he has or how nice he smells.
While we’re on that point … this is a basis for continued pain? Buy some incense and some music with a singer whose voice you sound sexy!!! I’m joking of course but these are not attributes which make anything worthwhile as a relationship you know!
So no date tonight. I’m ok with that though I do want to go out this weekend and get tipsy, let my hair down 🙂
@Aega – “would Wuthering Heights been a longer novel had Heathcliffe pursued Cathy from afar with a webcam†– lol, hilarious thought. Glad to hear your EUM/MM is losing his appeal, even in your imagination.
@Jetred – thanks for the thoughts and prayers. I only need rescuing from myself I suppose, and hope this will happen, perhaps with the help of this therapist I’ll be starting with soon. That’s good you’ve been crying – it’s good to let it all out, even if hormones are being a catalyst. My night of crying in the hotel room had an estrogen fluctuation component too, I think. But I still felt better afterwards, and I hope you will too.
@Butterfly – sorry to hear about your date being cancelled. I hope you are still planning to go out, get tipsy, and let your hair down this weekend! Re: my ex – “the idea of him is better than the actual reality no matter how nice a voice he has or how nice he smells.†– yes, that is getting to be more and more the case as time goes by. And sure, his smell and voice affect me in a physical way, but he does have other qualities that attract me, lol. Hmmm, now that I typed that, I’m not sure that *I* can think of a whole lot of qualities of his that *are* that irresistible. He is shy, quiet, and a “people pleaserâ€, so not my usual type (and he’s not really very attractive, either). But I feel sorry for him because of his difficult childhood (his mother dying when he was young) and he just seems clueless about some things – like he needs to be helped – and that speaks to the “rescuer†part of me. And I do like it when he’s very sweet and thoughtful towards me – taking care of me in little ways, etc. And of course I am drawn in to the drama as interacting with him feels similar to interacting with my father when I was young. It feels “natural” and “comfortable” to be with him. And he really does have some wonderful skills in the bedroom. Maybe there’s not much there to form the basis of a relationship after all – maybe not even a friendship!
He emailed me this morning, and thanked me for letting him back in to my life for a brief time. I`m not sure I`m going to reply 🙂
Oh Meant I dunno if I should laugh or cry, so I am just going to point you back at NML’s book. Seriously babes, it’s TEXTBOOK. Absolutely textbook … the “fixer upper”. I am very guilty of this.
I’m not down about the date, if it is going to happen then it is going to happen, end of. All the vibes are not setting off my bullshit alarm, including that he let me know in lots of time.
I am in an email conversation with someone who is here in the same city under very similar circumstances and the red flags are waving merrily away in the breeze lol. I stand by my attitude that these are assCLOWNS as once you see past “the one” you see they really are all the same. This one keeps asking me to tell him my sexual likes and dislikes and to go for a drink. Do I look impressed and enticed?
OH hell I meant to say to you Meant (lol) if he is sending you a message thanking you for letting him back into your life for a brief time PLEASE READ IT PROPERLY:
~Thank you for letting me back into your life. I’ve had a nice time, and my ego is nicely plumped up. Course, that’s it now until next time I get chance and with any luck next time you’ll do what is expected and get on your knees so I don’t have to wait till I get home to the wife for some”.
I wonder if I would even know how to act on a bonafide date. A real date…too much to even think of.
I ran up on a conversation my ex-slug and I had…(okay, okay…I was looking for it. Just needed to…I don’t know why) Anyway…I’m not really sure what I was doing with him. I wanted him…I still want him. But I wonder what drew me to him. My self asteem issues are always part of my life struggle, but I seem to have sunk to a new low. Even for me. Well…it wasn’t so much what we spoke of that made me wonder this, but that I was reading the words…hearing his voice…seeing his probable expression and…I’m just not getting to the next step in the process. I feel that I may need a very long time to reconcile with myself…to forgive myself for accepting the bad feelings and anxiety he “gifted” to me. There are people that I know who would be totally stunned to know the place I’m at right now, emotionally for this “type” of man. How could it happen? I used to listen to him say things like, “I’m usually right, but people have to make mistakes before they admit it” or I said something to him like, “Okay, so now you’re lying” in jest, and he said with a completely serious tone…”I don’t lie.” I had to stop walking past him to the kitchen and come back and have him repeat it. I must have known he was lying then and lying always. I wonder if he even realizes that he lies?
I swear the best part of this site is how it completely negates your notion of how unique your MM/EUM/AC was or is. Butterfly, you are so right – once you realize that the “one” was actually cast from a cheap and common plastic mould it’s kind of hard to think that you are missing out on that one and only soulmate that fate will never toss your way again. In fact, maybe you can even find one at Walmart and I just never knew because I refuse to shop there…
Maybe in addition to our fixer-upper (looovev that term!) tendencies, we all somehow made ourselves believe that we had the diamond in the rough and the fact that we saw it while no one else did made us special. Now that diamond turns out to be fool’s gold instead. So much for special, huh?
We have all kind of admitted here too that none of these guys were really good-looking. Mine is average, I suppose; you know, regular features, good hair, average height. He has a great sense of humor but if I think about it objectively a lot of it comes from our shared history and developing all those private cues and jokes. I went to this seminar yesterday and – busines world being what it is – I was one of only two women in a conference room chockful of men. They were all smart, many good-looking, and two or three that had me laughing till I snorted. I pictured the MM briefly among all these other folks and he came up pretty bland. Btw, I am also happy to report that it was a pretty fleeting thought and probably there only because someone had mentioned a project that my bozo had done last year. My wallowing came later when I was alone with my thoughts on the way home.
So why did we all go for these guys in the first place? Mine used to tell me how he liked to go to dinner with me because he would watch the other guys in the room watching me. He said they must have wondered how he’d ended up with me. Well, I think I would like to know that too.
Aega,
“What we thought was a diamond in the rough was only fools gold!”
That’s good.
I actually said to the MM once after I was pretty much on my way out of believing him 2 years into it, “how do I know that you’re not just “fool’s gold?”
And he said “because I’ve never felt this way before.”
It was about him, not “us.”
I also learned a lot while reading other women’s stories that helped me to realize that these types of guys aren’t special and unique, they’re more like cookie cutters who all have the same shaped way of dealing with women.
I couldn’t believe how many of the lines I read from other women’s men were the exact same ones I heard. And was thankful to have found that out!
” He had sent me a video of himself talking about our “relationshipâ€.
!!! !!!!
Which makes me wonder – would Wuthering Heights been a longer novel had Heathcliffe pursued Cathy from afar with a webcam? ”
This just continues with NML’s warnings that texting email and “non engaged” communication is the hallmark of the EUM. A video huh…probably have been much like having him there. And you were right to face his words “I should just drive out there” for what they are…his fanstasy that feeds your fantasy.The thing that is so weird as I think about affairs is that if I was his wife, I would want to sensibly consider the state of my marriage if I knew my husband was telling someone else he’d rather be with them.
Meant and everyone, we share our thoughts, theories and experiences with each other because it helps clear up our EUM confused heads, we really have been through something really difficult to comprehend..both their confusing behavior, and our disturbing reactions to, and enabling of, that behavior.
I have been through plenty in my life but hands down this has been the most difficult thing. Also, lets all realize that any attempt to analyze and write probably helps others as well as ourselves, We are very lucky to have others here; we understand our pain and confusion. Of the people I have confided in about EUM only one understood, she is married to an EUM, and not going anywhere, and she just told me to get out. While we may be able to get out, apparently we can’t just ” snap out of it ”
So now the concern is how did I miss so much. Brad’s posts continue to say the same thing because he is defining the most important point of relationships with others. If we want to have mature healthy relationships we have to seek out mature healthy people to have them with. Sometimes you have to be involved with unhealthy people, but other times we have the choice. While it’s not fair to expect perfection, everyone can slip into unhealthy or juvenile behavior, there are people that are comfy with an immature level of emotional intelligence, and then there are those like us who see it and are not comfortable with it. If someone appears to want to stick with an unhealthy relationship, we must learn to walk away asap because they are probably very content engaging in a versions of torturous and unfullfilling relationship. And we will tire ourselves, and likely become something like them if we trying to help them look at it more maturely.
@Butterfly,
Thanks for interpreting his email, lol. Yes, he is a “fixer-upper”, and to be honest, I don’t know how his wife has put up with him for all these years. When we had the discussion about all the things I was dissatisfied about in our relationship (including not really knowing how he felt about me), he said no one had ever really probed him about how he felt, so he’s never even felt the need to say ‘I love you” to anyone! If this is true, I do feel sorry for her and wonder how low her expectations can be.
That’s pathetic your email man is asking your sexual likes already, before you’ve even gone on a “date”. Can they not see that makes it obvious what they are after?
@Jetred – did your ex lie about a lot of things? Did you catch him in the lies? I just have a feeling that my ex lies, but have never really caught him on it (except, of course I know he *had* to be lying to his wife about where he was while we met at the motels).
@Aega – you know, your story about the meeting with the many men and few women sounds familiar too (that’s great you laughed till you snorted – good for the soul). I was also socializing with a group of men at the conference, and once had a bunch of them standing all around me (the only woman in the group), laughing and joking around. I could see my ex looking at the situation, and later he said he was jealous of one of the men in particular getting more “face time” with me than he did. I thought about the ex, and compared them to these men, and I must admit, the ex did not compare well as far as being fun, open, easy to talk to, etc.
At a previous conference (when we were still “together”), he told me he got a kick out of seeing me talk to other men, just knowing that I would “ditch” the other guy to be with *him* by the end of the night. They really are competitive, aren’t they? and need to be validated by associating with attractive women.
“why do we all go for these guys in the first place?” Great question – I think that is what NML is trying to teach us here…
@dazedandconfused
He wants you to have his *baby* and not let his primary partner know????
Please, please tell us you would never consider this set-up!!! How selfish of him to want you to continue in the shadows, give birth to his offspring while he continues in his double life which revolves around *his* needs. No, that is not any kind of life for you OR for any resulting baby. A child needs all the love they can get – and how available would he be to that child he is suggesting?
You mentioned therapy for yourself, and I strongly recommend you think about that seriously. I have just recently made the call for an appointment myself, and feel very positive about the potential benefits for me. As aphrogirl said, the EUM relationship can be one of the most difficult things to experience, especially alone. Soon you will be busy back in school, and may not have the time or energy to make that call, so please, if you’re serious about trying therapy, make that call soon! Maybe today?
Hello ladies,
I was wondering if you could please offer a few words of incouragement for me, as I am struggling very much today and want to reach out to my assclown/EUM. Today I have reached NC for 10 days and this is longest I have ever gone without speaking to him or seeing him. My heart hurts today and I keep asking myself why? why? why?. We were together for 1.5 years and lived together for most of it. We broke up and I moved out 3 months ago and he kept saying he was “confused” and “not sure what he wanted” and I eventually was demoted to simply a booty call, while he spends time with other girls and flirts with them openly. I know he is bad news and all my friends are sick of hearing me talk about him and cry. I just miss him so much today and wonder why he didnt think I was worth the effort of putting both feet back in the relationship and working out our problems. Why did he continue to text me and show up at my house when he new I wasnt over him? Why did I let him come in and out of my life for months and expect him to one day value me and want me back? I miss him so much.
I have been reading this site for 3 months now and know how strong all of you are and would really appreciate words of encouragement today. Thanks :'(
@Tara
That’s great you are on day 10 of NC – even that can be soooo difficult, and it’s the longest time you’ve gone without talking to him, which is encouraging.
Yes, NC is very difficult, and we have all missed our exes at times, even when we know they are no good for us. What is it that you miss exactly? Do you miss the fantasy version of him – the one that values you for who you are, who gives you what you need emotionally, the one you so desperately *want* him to be? Or is it the real version – the one he has shown you through his actions, the one who disrespects you by turning you into a booty call while flirting and possibly sleeping with other women, the one who doesn’t know if he wants to be with you or not?
“Why did he continue to text me and show up at my house when he new I wasnt over him? ” – he texts you because he wants to keep the door open for future “intimate encounters” or ego strokes. He is thinking of his own needs, not yours. These EUM’s are not capable of empathy – they have deep feelings for only themselves.
“Why did I let him come in and out of my life for months and expect him to one day value me and want me back? ” – because you are his fall back girl, and you have not established boundaries with him, nor taught him the appropriate way to treat you (many of us here are guilty of this – myself included!!!). NML might say you are living in a fantasy world where these EUM’s actually have an epiphany and change the way they see things, and suddenly value you even though you have put up with their crappy behaviour in the past. Sorry, but it just ain’t gonna happen. Have you read some of NML’s other posts on here about relationship insanity, self esteem issues, and how to spot emotionally unavailable men?
You know he’s not good for you. Your friends know he’s not good for you. Have you written out a list of all the things he’s done that hurt you? You have chosen to go NC to protect yourself from further hurt from him. You need to work on yourself now – what do *you* need to be happy? Therapy? exercise? reading a good book? a night out with your gf’s? you CAN do this, you just have to get over the rough patches (and trust me, there will be more of them), so get out and do something for YOU.
Keep posting here – personally I find it extremely helpful.
Wishing you the best Tara – you’re worth it.
I havent posted on here in quite some time, but after reading this i felt i needed to. I’m finally accepting that me and my EUM are done, over…kaput. He’s moved back in with his ex because i refused to buy him an phone….whatever,fine. Then he tries a new tactic. He starts telling me he loves me, etc. He has never once in the 4 years i’ve known him said that. but he’s not leaving her. what a suprise. he wants us to have a child (but not tell her) so he can stay in my life. I have to stay this latest display has throw me for a loop. it’s crazy! i’m beginng college on monday ( or going back rather) and finally focusing on attaining some of my goals. I can’t see myself being the other woman forever. what kind of life is that? not only that, but i’m on a new daily medication for my migraines (which needless to say have gotten worse because of all this) and it’s making me EXTREMELY emotional……i feel sometimes that just as i’m on my out, he starts reeling me back in. i think i need a therapist!!
.-= dazedandconfused´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
@ Tara, I’m galloping out at the moment, so not a lot of time! I just wanted to second everything Meant said; to wish you the best on your way; and to let you know that when I first came here I certainly wasn’t “strong” in any way! I was a fed-up, confused, insulted, solitary, scared heap 🙂
Keep at it and read NML – the info here from her and the darling bloggers is like a University education.
love, Leonine
@ Tara – hey hon. Keep with it, it gets easier. Yet again I am seeing the same words I have heard myself. Others have seen me say, and I don’t care about saying it again, I have literally wanted to die over the feelings that dealing with this idiot raised – please notice I am not saying what he did to me: what I allowed myself to put up with.
If you go back you get the same shit different day, or maybe worse. I can’t agree enough with Leonine, how I wish I’d seen this site before but of course I didn’t cos deep down I didn’t want to get over this man until I started trying to.
LADIES I AM TALKING TO YOU the fact that you are here speaks the inside truth that you know on an intuitive level, not the conscious which keeps telling you that you are in love with an illusion.
@dazed – holy hell, I had wondered how you are. This guy is a complete waste of DNA, and he wants to propogate it? How you aren’t telling him to F OFF as the only response you give I think needs applause for your patience. Urgh 🙁
@Meant – you were talking about qualities yeah? I tried to make a list of what I actually miss about him and …
Yeah. LOL. I miss my mirage sometimes but the idiot who was holding up the mirror? Nah. Nah.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. This site and all of you are really like therapy to me. Thank you.
@meant- Yes, I am so proud of me for making it 10 days, I know he never expected me to break contact because I was always his fallback girl, pathetically professing my love and begging him to value me…. so sad…. I got caught up in the emotions and illusions and not seeing him for who he really is, which is not a very nice guy who constantly put me down and told me I wasnt “good enough”. So yes I miss my illusion. I miss the guy I thought he was and will most likely never be. Your right this is the time to work on me. I need to make sure I never let this happen to me again, raise my self esteem and set healthy boundaries. I have written out all the ways he has hurt me numerous times, I just seem to have this awful amnesia on a daily basis. UGH. I think I am worth it too 🙂 thank you so much for saying that tho. Times like these it means so much to hear that someone else understands me and Im not crazy.
I also have been following your story and I wanted to tell you that your so strong to not completely give in with your ex and I know the temptation must have been powerful. You objectively realized how he impacted your feelings and emotions negatively and I know that will give you strength in the days to come. I wish you the best and know that your not alone. We are all sisters and friends here 🙂
@Leonine- thank you, I will keep reading this site faithfully to help me with my journey of healing and strengthening myself. I am so glad to hear that you are no longer “ed-up, confused, insulted, solitary, scared heap” and you have grown. All of you are my inspiration that it will get better for me too. So thank you.
@Butterfly – I know it will get easier, day by day, I just wish I could speed up the process! LOL ….. I am in love with an illusion…. I want to shatter it for good! Never ever to let that boy (definitely not a man) hurt me again.
Ah yes the wanting it to end 🙂
Thing is, I have come to the conclusion that we have to go through this over time. However, the great thing is that here you can talk to people who understand as your friends will not … no one does unless it happens to them.
Accept that you might not shatter the illusion but you can learn to own it and accept it and understand that it is YOURS. It’s your mirage. It has nothing to do with him, and ultimately we all have something we can learn about that illusion and how to stop being addicted to it’s glittering allure when the real world out there might not glow so brightly, but might also show us colours we have not even thought about before.
@Tara,
I know you were speaking to the strong ladies on this site and not addressing us chickenshits, but I’m going to put my two cents in anyway… At 5 days NC I was absolutely convinced that I’d never make it through the weekend. At 10 I thought, great, now I’ve got myself a record, too bad I wasn’t setting the bar very high. As it happened, 10 days coincided with raging hormones, a rainy day, and his first heroic attempt at winning me back (for those who may not remember this feat of romantic desperation on his part – that would be that one-line text message). I made it through day 11 reading the posts here till Advil PM knocked me out, pretty much resigned however that will power had run dry and I’d be jumping on the rollercoaster again first thing in the morning. I figured I might as well stop counting, so I did, but then next thing I knew it was the two week mark and I was still fighting off his ardent advances. Again, for those not paying attention, those would be the tragically worded one-liners he would post next to his MSN picture. He was “sad and tiired†(I swooned). He “needed to be sedated†(how could I keep this cold and unfeeling when he was quoting the Ramones??) His home had then “become a house†(I clutched at my breast). Finally, while still needing to be sedated, he started “hunting for an Aston Martin†to fix up to fill his lonely hours (his manifest concern for me and my feelings could not be denied here).
Idly it occurred to me when I logged in yesterday to find instant messages waiting for me on the screen that it will be 3 weeks Sunday. I had no more desire to answer them then I’ve had to pick up my phone over the last few days when I see an area code from anywhere west of the Mississippi. As I write this, his MSN “bulletin†has changed again and he is now missing his best friend. Yaawwnnn…
Don’t get me wrong: the hurt still comes, a lot. It comes when I least expect it and something opens, then closes inside me as yet another little bit of hope that I don’t want to acknowledge seems to get away from me. As everyone here has said at some point, however, when that feeling of emptiness passes, you realize that overall you feel much lighter. There is no longer a weight tied around your neck dragging you down every day. In between those hard to get through times of missing him so acutely, I have periods of complete freedom from him now. I know they will keep getting longer and longer. Eventually even folks like me come to their senses. You will get there.
@Lisa
I think to them “us†stands for “unwanted smarmâ€. “Whaddya mean there is another person in this relationship??â€
@Meant
Here’s to groups of smart good-looking guys swarming around us. They just might pull me out of my Bitter and into the Eat Your Heart Out stage.
@aphrogirl
The “relationship†video wasn’t so bad. At least he kept most of his clothes on in that one. It was the ones that came after that made me cringe. Ironically, what had clearly aimed to turn me on had the exact opposite effect on me. I’m a little old-fashioned when it comes to vanity and I really believe that it’s the purview of us womenfolk. I don’t recall Prince Charming – or even Heathcliffe, the precursor of modern day EUMs – as having a mirror, mirror on the wall. And if I’d had a thing for the wicked stepmother, I would have found myself a different site to find comfort on when things got rocky between us. Oy. The poor Grimm brothers must be turning in their graves.
I’m not sure I agree Heathcliffe is EXACTLY a precursor of EUMs …
There’s still way too much emphasis on what “he” did. Perhaps this is a stage I have gotten to, however there’s an underlying reason why these men get to pull their crap and get away with it: us.
Pinning the blame on them is the very essence of what this thread is about: emotional laziness and an unwillingness to look at the things WE do or don’t do, the changes we have to make, the issues we have to face and accept.
This includes our own emotional unavailability, and it is not just men who are narcissists either (statistically it’s about 75% men by all accounts but I have encountered female Narcs and the red flags are just as clear).
I think your post made me say this Aega, indeed “mirror mirror on the wall” as I know for sure I have been emotionally unavailable and I don’t like it. The thing is, when we are screwed up in some ways then mirror is what we get when we get these idiots acting like … well, like idiots.
However – Prince Charming doesn’t exist. An aspiration of crowds of smart good looking guys – in my opinion, which is no expert opinion – is missing the point because it’s a fishing pool for more EUM/EUW spiral dancing. The work needed is by us, for us and can only be DONE by us but the first step of real recovery and a better life is accepting that WE have a problem – it just isn’t him or any other man.
Their behaviour is all about them: our behaviour is all about us and them because it’s so much easier to displace than to face. Analysing ourselves (without over analysing, there is a difference) and forcing yourself to see what is real instead of what you ‘d like to see is unpleasant but ultimately rewarding.
Much is said about EUM/AC behaviour and there is much sisterhood and support but there needs to be responsibility and accountability too because you owe it to the most important person in your life.
Do you have the balls to do something about it, even if you don’t like what you need to see?
Uh … wrong thread!! LOL! I stand by what I said tho.
I’ve decided to finally to finally follow my get-out plan. It’s so hard. I’m finally making myself deal with all these feelings, etc, and its awful. i feel like an emotional trainwreck. I know this will pass eventually. Any words of encouragement or advice woulld be helpful.
.-= dazedandconfused´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
dazedandconfused,
You said you start back to college Monday – it isn’t a really big thing, but do expect a bit of depression. This happens any time you take a new job, buy a new house or car. Just be aware it happens to everyone, and don’t be quick to drop a class or drop out of school. Anyone can go back; and very few people find it easy to start. After the first couple of semesters you will know the school better, know the routines and expectations, have a better appreciation of how to use all the unsuspected resources of the library and the student union and the bookstore. Wait a long time before second guessing the choice to go back to school. You can do more and better than you imagine you can!
At the same time, take very good care to live an exciting, healthy life. You won’t learn if you don’t sleep. Start now with setting an early evening routine, go non-electronic at least an hour before sleep time. Figure out an appropriate breakfast, and set a regular time to get up each morning. Allow a bit of extra time to park one parking lot further out at school, and walk that bit farther to and from class. Plan on being at the classroom 15 minutes early, every time. Read at least a chapter ahead of the instructor’s assignments, and take lots of notes. The power of taking notes in class is organizing and capturing the details and points of the presentation, the act of writing helps imprint the information onto your short term memory. Even if you never review your notes for a test, taking the notes in the first place makes a big difference.
Showing up for each class session, even when told there is nothing special about a particular class, is an act of respect for the instructor and for the material – and for your discipline and dedication to master what is set before you.
If reading something doesn’t make sense – say, for instance, you can’t stay awake, your thoughts keep drifting, or you find the buzz from the fluorescent light from the bathroom in the basement of the house across the street to be terminally distracting – read the chapter a second or third time – then copy the whole thing out onto note paper (pencil). I usually find by the second page I am focusing on the material again – after I notice that when I keep writing after my fingers start hurting, some parts hurt more and other parts get numb.
The university I graduated had a student group for “re-entry” students. Get in touch with them, if one is available. Tips on getting to know the campus and routines, examples of how others balance priorities, and being able to rub elbows with people trying to return to student life can make this event in your life completely different.
Another resource was access to the track where PT was held – where we could walk in relative safety when the track wasn’t used for classes.
Even though it complicates your get-out plan, please consider the sleep, good nutrition, and planning you should do to be the best student you can be. Nothing you learn is ever wasted – even if it isn’t covered on a test.
Luck!
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..br: Throw the bum out, and his kids =-.
Two months into therapy for a variety of emotional issues — sex addiction, love addiction, an acute fear of abandonment, etc. — I have come to the depressing realization that I have been a Mr. Unavailable for my entire adult life.
They say your emotional condition is equivalent to the age in which you began your addictions, which puts me somewhere around 11-13 (I am about to turn 36).
I grew up with an emotionally inconsistent father, and a codependent mother, and Dad’s stash of Playboys/Penthouses were a very welcome relief from whatever nurturing I wasn’t getting. (For young children, without access to drugs and alcohol, food and/or masturbation are the most effective coping mechanisms available.)
Of course, I didn’t realize that at the time; checking out nudie mags was just exciting. Now, I can only lament the damage it’s caused on my psyche as the usage and extremity of the material gradually escalated over the years.
Even though I’ve been an avid consumer of an inherently mysoginistic product, I’ve always envisioned myself as Mr. Nice Guy — affectionate, respectful, attentive, gracious, kind, thoughtful.
But while I do think those qualities are still fundamental portions of my inner being, I now realize that my attitudes and actions did not match in the slightest. I was using them as means of seduction, and distancing, rather than honest intimate interaction.
Then, time after time, for reasons that I had no idea were even happening, I would either send my partner packing with some lame excuse or convince myself that the relationship was doomed to implode and take off running. Rinse, repeat.
It’s a terrible cycle to be in — the thing that I want the most, a healthy intimate relationship, is also the thing I fear most, because I never developed the trust that somebody would trust and care for me.
Not only that, but I’ve lied so effectively about it that I’ve managed to convince myself that, unlike the other five or six billion people on the planet, I don’t need things like love, companionship and support.
I didn’t post this for sympathy. I just wanted to share that, as much as it sucks for you ladies to be involved with Mr. Unavailables, it sucks just as much for us, if not more. Especially once we’ve taken an honest look at our past, like I have, and realized the opportunities that have been squandered.
In closing, I’d like to offer a suggestion to anyone with even a slight curiosity about counseling — DO IT. IMMEDIATELY. WITHOUT HESITATION. This is something I should have done six or seven years ago, if not sooner. I’ve already learned more about myself in the last two months than I have in the previous 20 years.
It’s going to cost me the equivalent of a really nice car by the time I’m done. But in the end, what’s more important than your mental health?
PS — I have my flaws, but I am not an ass clown. So I have that going for me.
dan- I think is very nice that you trying to work on your issues and doing therapy.Most of the EUMs dont admit they have a problem or never look for help to change it.Good job and good luck on your efforts to become emotionaly avaliable,you are on the right track.
Anusha,
Remember that Dan is in the minority of those involved in the EUM cycle – he noticed the pattern, wanted out, and looked for help. Just like the small minority of ladies that notice the cycle, want a way out, and accept assistance. Like everyone else here.
Like Dan, the group of ladies that visit Baggage Reclaim and find help is a very small proportion of all women afflicted with repeated EUM relationships.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..tslr: Survival Prep, and choosing a spouse =-.
Brad K- I know but I think is good that he wants out and is doing whatever it takes for that.Most of the EUMs(like my ex for example) dont do that.A lot of them rely on their bad experiences in childhood to not do anything about it,they say “Well isnt my fault Im like that,Im like this because of all that happened to me when I was child”.And I agree that isnt their fault they become like that but I do think it is their fault that they arent doing anything to change it.Like NML says and shows here all the time,we can become emotionaly healthy if we want and work on our issues.
@ Anusha,
You are right.
@ Dan,
Sorry I sounded negative. Sometimes we wish all problems were going away, and I forget to celebrate when someone finds a better way.
Thanks.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..ps: Empowering girls, and self confidence =-.
Dan,
You are AWESOME.
Brad — No offense taken, so no apology needed.
Unfortunately, you are right about the small percentage of people who seek help. I can see it in my family with my dad (possible sex addict, definitely unavailable emotionally, not just to mom but me and my sister as well) and my uncle (alcoholic, workaholic, possible sex addict).
Neither one of them are ever going to realize their issues, let alone take corrective steps, so at the very least I feel glad I’ve been able to do that. Not that I don’t wish sometimes I could take the red pill and go back into my stupor. This shit is hard work, and it’s most definitely not fun. But in the end, it’s the only choice I have.
Blaise — THANKS!!! Frankly, this site is awesome. Even as the type of man who many of the women here are trying to avoid — for now, I hope — it provides a ton of insight into my own behaviors and attitudes. And I am looking for any tool I can possibly find right now.
Anusha,
I was also in an LDR with my EUM. We started off being in the same city for a month, but then his job sent him to the west coast. I had no idea how to be successful in LDRs so I started looking on other websites. They talked about communicating often and setting up a visiting plan. I tried to talk about this with my EUM but he didn’t seem interested. I had so many talks with him about how important communication is and why he needs to make an effort to initiate communication. He would try but it seemed like it was a struggle for him to do this. It made me wonder why this was a struggle for him.
The last time I physically saw him was in March of this year for 3 days. When I asked him when the next time we could see each other, he said he didn’t know because of his schedule. He puts his job, his parents, friends and getting his pilots license before me. I am a low priority it seems. So 11 days ago, I broke up with him. I haven’t spoken to him sense. I’m just tired of feeling like i’m in a relationship by myself. When I told him that my needs were not being met and that I was breaking up, he said that I had an escape plan and that I probably have someone else that’s why I’m breaking up with him.
I am astonished that he doesn’t see how horrible of a boyfriend he has been to me. He apologized for not fulfilling my needs, but I haven’t heard from him since.
LDRs can be hard, but they shouldn’t be this hard. I can totally relate to your situation.
Tiffany-Good to know that you can relate to my situation.My ex seems to be pretty much like yours,he wouldnt iniciate contact and wouldnt do much effort to keep the comunication going.I agree that for a LDR to work you need a lot of comunication and visit plans like you said but my ex didnt seem to agree with it.He was happy with talking once a week and sometimes even less than that.And I did felt like a strugle too,like if I had to force him to keep contact.I know how bad it fells so you did the right thing by breaking up with him and going NC.Btw I realy like this sentence “So I’m just tired of feeling like i’m in a relationship by myself”,that is exactaly how it fells like. Stay strong and count with me if you need 🙂
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