Recently I had to travel to the US, and one particular issue kept coming up.
My travelling buddy, while really sweet and easy going, was slowly driving me insane. I thought I was going to pull my own hair out and wanted to give him a happy pill or something, just so he would be able to talk faster instead of taking 5 minutes to think of a response to anything I said! My main frustration was that this guy could not make a decision for the life of him!! He was travelling with me because he is meant to be that little bit more savvy, but honestly it would have been better travelling with a stuffed toy!
So here is the thing: This guy could not make a decision, said YES to everything that I asked him, and seemed to have no sense of opinion himself, and on top of that was a complete and utter people pleaser! I don’t know about you guys, but isn’t this something that you would find just irritating? Mind you, some of you may be thinking that it would be great to have such an easy going traveling buddy…
But first let me give you a situation. We are at the airport, just got off the plane and have no idea where to go. So as a guy .. you’d think you would look around and do your best to know where you are going or at least in which direction you should go. Now this guy just stood there, umming and arrring for like 5 minutes. In those minutes I’m getting more and more annoyed because this dude can’t make a decision so I just picked a direction and started walking there. He of course followed me. Now here is the thing; I had no idea where I was going! I was just doing my best to use the signs and what not.
We ended up finding where we needed to go, because I was asking all these random people for direction and reading signs. But the whole thing that annoyed me the most was that, he couldn’t even step up and be a man and attempt to take control of the situation.
For me, there is absolutely nothing attractive about his lack of action or control.
He was talking about his girlfriend at home and how much he cares about her. He does all these really sweet and predictable things for her … and in the back of my mind I was hoping and praying that she doesn’t get bored and dump him. I really hope that I’m wrong, but rarely does a woman want to stay with a guy that is so easy to control and is so predicable.
Which brings me to my second point. I was listening to one of these audio CD’s and the guy said that girls are insecure by nature and are looking for a partner who can keep them safe and protect them. That really made me think, and I believe this is so true.
When a guy is masculine, takes control, and guides and leads us, we feel protected.
When a guy stands up to us and doesn’t take our bitchiness, he proves that he can stand up to YOU and therefore can stand up FOR you.
It all comes back to the point of… ” Do I feel safe around this guy?”, “Does he make me feel protected?”, and “Can I let my guard down and allow him to take care of things?”.
Seriously girls think about this, because I think this plays a really important factor in the type of guys that we date and are attracted to. There is no way that we are going to stay with a guy who can’t stand up to us, who won’t make his own decisions, and who exists for the very approval of others.
On a biological level it demonstrates that this is someone who is weak and is unable to take care of us.
So for the guys out there … please please please just tell us what to do!
Girls what do you think?
Hot Alpha Female is a regular contributor to Baggage Reclaim. She’s a vibrant twenty-something that loves talking about dating and relationships, as well as skiing and laughing uncontrollably.
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HAF, I do agree with you on this one. I think men and women are confused these days about what they really want in a relationship. Especially men–we seem to have a whole generation of men (late 20’s, early 30’s) who have been “feminized” by the women’s movement, and possibly be being raised by single mothers (some may disagree with me on that one)–they have been socialized to be weenies, and to not have a backbone or be too mean for fear of making their woman mad, and since they are spineless weenies, they wouldn’t know how to handle their woman being upset. It’s like their manhood has been compromised, and they are raised and socialized to think that being a “nice guy” and agreeing with everything their woman says is the way to be, or actually they don’t know how to be any other way. When, in reality, I think what women want is a real man that can stand up for himself, protect her, defend her, and sometimes be the one to make the decisions! I’m hoping my next man will be A MAN, and will have the balls to set me straight if that’s what’s needed, to protect my honor, to punch some other guy out if he tries to hit on me, etc. etc. So my motto is–LET’S BRING BACK THE MAN!!! 🙂
”girls are insecure by nature and are looking for a partner who can keep them safe and protect them. That really made me think, and I believe this is so true.
When a guy is masculine, takes control, and guides and leads us, we feel protected.”
Too true, too true. 100% true. Which is one reason why I couldn’t stay with my ex boyfriend. He was too happy to stay in the shadows, and although he’d playfully stand up to me by making stupid arguments about how women can’t drive (yeah, right!) he is no macho man. I want a macho man!!
A friend recently tried setting me up with someone, A, but in the meantime I got with someone else, B, so we’re just friends. A and I chat to each other from time to time and he was recently talking about his job and how he’d love to move departments but he’s just too scared because it would mean entering a different social circle that may not be as fun and friendly as his current one. Puh-lease!!!! He’s talking the same department in a company that he has worked for all his life (no disrespect there – I think that’s a great thing!) and here I am moving to a job 90miles away!!!
My sister always said she needed to be with someone who would argue back, and she has that in her husband. I’m the same: guys, be a man!!!!
What I’ve found with a lot of guys like this, though, is a pattern of passive aggressive behavior. They appear to be passive, they appear or mouth the words you want to hear and then go off and typically do what they damn well please.
It’s been pointed out the me I have a strong personality and can be “intimidating”. I prefer to think I am confident and secure. So, since I don’t feel the need to be “protected”, would that make me unattractive to guys?
However, being in the situation you were in, HAF, I’m afraid I would be totally annoyed as well.
A friend told me not too long ago a mutual friend of ours would love to take me out. I told him to tell him to “man up” and call me on the freaking phone and ask me for a freakin’ date, for God’s sakes. Needless to say, I haven’t heard from the “weenie”.
I am not so sure I’d want to be “told what to do”, however, having a guy’s input and collaborating on whatever project du jour is on the table would be quite welcomed. And yes, I would much rather have a guy point out to me I was being a total bitch as opposed to saying it was “ok” and then tucking tail and running.
”since I don’t feel the need to be “protectedâ€, would that make me unattractive to guys?”
Not at all – so many guys love confident women… I remember when one of my male friends first met my female friend and she jokingly took the p*** out of him before they’d even been introduced, in a kind of ”I’m really busy and important at this party and having a whale of a time, and too busy to really take notice over ppl I don’t know” and he LOVED it!! Straight away he said she was really hot. She’s a good looking girl, it’s true, but it was the confidence that turned him on so much.
And recently someone commented on my friend and I and said we’re both great but she has so much more confidence than me. He was definitely implying that he approved of her confidence!
I agree as a man who has been around women & have listened to what they have to say its really frustrating to be torn apart like this. It’s not that I don’t want to “Protect” & take the lead but on one hand women want their man to be caring attentive & take account their “Feelings” & on the other they want them to take charge make decisions & “Be A Man”
I think men today are the creations of all the so called “Men” who took charge did what they wanted & made all the decisions & their decisions were not to stay in a relationship with woman who moaned at them for not being “Emotionally Available” & that has been drilled into all the young men who were without a strong male role model to learn from. So these young men learnt from their mothers & women friends how these men had treated them & done the opposite & here we are today….
I hate the non-decisive type. I say stand up and make a decision. Women will respect you for being that way. At least they will know to either love you or hate you.
As someone once told me, it is actually the passive aggressive’s that have control. It’s kinda like you feel like you are constantly being manipulated by their ‘I dunno, what do you wanna do’ and ‘fine’….drives me right round the bend.
I LOVE feeling protected. It’s only since I reached my 30-teens. (heehee) that I can really appreciate this. When I was younger, I wanted to be the strong one, all the time. No man was EVER going to take care of me…pffft.
Now, I love it, absolutely love it, when the guy I am seeing makes me feel like he would do anything to protect me. I love it when he wants me to walk on the inside of the sidewalk ‘ladies to the inside’…I love it, and when a guy can make you feel safe, cherished, protected…well that is so attractive and just damn manly. I know that if anyone said anything or did anything to me, he would make me feel safe, and make sure that the person in question knew to back off.
And you know what? I can still take care of me. But he can too, I can share. Not enough people stand up for people they care about these days.
It is really an admirable quality.
And it’s really really REALLY hot.
🙂
HAF, I imagine that by the time the plane landed, your travel buddy had figured out that you pretty much take care of yourself.
I think the ‘women are insecure’ thing is social conditioning, not biology. I know women that would put me in the hospital for repeating that homily. This is a vestige of the old ‘keep them barefoot and pregnant’ adage. That is, marry the lady off early, and keep her attention to home and family where it belongs. Such an arrangement requires that the woman be protected, since the assumption is that she knows nothing about the hazards of the world. Or about the opportunities of the world.
Is it possible that you are confusing world experience, the ability to function in unfamiliar situations, and maturity with indecision? You haven’t stated whether your travel buddy had ever flown as an adult (that is, when not with parents). His experience may well have been that parents have always guided and protected, and he may not have learned to fend for himself yet.
In any case, you depended on someone for something they were unable to provide. You failed to determine whether he was capable of helping to find your way. And you got angry with him, for failing to meet your (unstated and hidden) expectations.
It is entirely possible your travel buddy does have competence in some area, and you would find him knowledgeable, decisive, and competent in his chosen field. Did you bother to find out what you should rely on him for, before expecting him to take charge of something you didn’t know (what direction to take)?
No, this isn’t your fault, and I am not accusing anyone of wrong doing. But the only way to have avoided this row, was to have known your companion’s limits. The things you should depend on him for, an what you should not expect of him.
As it turned out, you demonstrated one way to get around – ask directions. Assuming you both remained calm and alert, he might even have learned from your example, making him a more valuable companion next time.
I agree HAF – this is what women want in a man but unfortunately, I’m not entirely convinced that we know what we want or communicate what we want. In the socialised world that we have where the gender expectations have shifted dramatically in the last half century or so, MEN don’t know how to play by our often undefined and uncommunicated rules. When he’s assertive he’s accused of being an aggressive asshole, a bad boy, or even a control freak. When he steps back to let the woman *feel* like the dominant one, she’ll call him a wuss.
I wish it was easier where we didn’t have to say what we want and expect but this is one of those situations where you could end up being damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. It’s all subjective plus what woman wants is not what another wants and so it’s becoming clear that we can’t assume anymore.
But…that said, that’s no excuse for having a lack of decisiveness. In fact, I wonder if he left his balls at home because my GOD, there is nothing worse than somebody who just um’s and ah’s! I had an ex like that, and after a few months together, I felt like I was his mum and my blood use to practically boil each time we got into decision mode, discussion mode, or argument mode. In fact, it was each time he opened his mouth…or didn’t.
I do not agree with HAF at all. Maybe you actually put him off trying with taking the lead all the time, or maybe he did not read your signs. What does it mean “to take control of the situation”? Why should a man take control just because he is a man. Helping out, yes. I have been in many situations in which the guy *knew* exactly where to go or what to do, only to find out, too late, that my reservations were right, but he was too pushy to let me have my say. How’s that for irritating.
I would be equally annoyed if a woman demonstrated extremely indecisive behaviour or lack of personality, which I think is what you are really complaining about. Nothing to do with gender or gender roles.
lisaq, I understand and don’t want a doormat either. But nobody wants a doormat, man or woman. Men, on the whole, do not want women who lack confidence.
If I like to be protected from something, it is from attacks and violence. And even then, you cannot expect every man to be John Wayne. I do not care about being protected from having to decide which way to go. I object to the definition of masculine as being the guy who ‘takes control and guides and protects us’. Balls are to be used when it comes to being able to stand up for your beliefs or your partner. And that’s a different story.
Ugh…I completely agree! I don’t want a doormat. I want a partner. For me it reads lack of confidence and I think we would all agree that confidence is attractive. This is so not!
@Nada…I think there’s a difference between pushy and confident which is how I read this situation. I damn sure don’t want a guy who tries to push me into things but I also don’t want one who shows absolutely no signs of confidence in himself or in the situation.
This thread is proof that we are ALL somewhat confused about how to play the game of male-female relationships these days. In some respects, back in “the day” there was no confusion because the male-female roles were so firmly entrenched, and not to be deviated from. In this new world, I think we are all trying to figure out how we fit into the puzzle–maybe the best answer is to follow your heart and live your life the way it works best for you.
well, if i can put my two cents in, i agree with the article about women wanting someone strong that will stand up for her and know what to do and i also believe that men want the same thing.
on any particular day both a man and a woman want someone who is going to have our back. if there’s something i miss, i want him to catch it. and if there’s something he misses, i’m sure he wants me to let him know what’s going on. both people have to work. not just one or the other.
someone who is gullible, doesn’t pay attention, or is not proactive in getting something done is not an attractive mate at all to a man or a woman.
FinallyOverIt, unknowndiva, I think the real point here is that we want responsible, competent, helpful, warrior people around us.
We notice these qualities when we are in doubt, afraid, or in danger.
Other times we prefer responsible, competent, helpful, cuddly people.
The patriarchal assumptions of the Judeo-Christian faiths, and the nations built on those teachings, assign the task of head of house authority to men. In recent decades, this is another of those nasty, niggling assumptions that have been overlooked when trying to evaluate men, women, and races as individuals rather than as social categories.
I can’t think that HAF would have been that much more understanding, or less upset, than if her travel buddy had been female. And if she found herself with insufficient guidance in that airport, I imagine she would have been just as expectant that her companion would ‘save the day’.
In relationships, we either choose the patriarchal mode of ‘man as head of woman’ and all the rest, or we evaluate each other on our individual strengths.
Learning leadership, like learning calculus, pretty much depends on observation, good examples, and having people around willing to teach. What with society drawing kids from their families to spend! spend! on what marketers are pushing, there is less chance today to grow up in good family values. Fewer families than ever have good, strong, competent adults raising their kids. Our parents did their best, but had less grounding in family fundamentals than previous generations.
No guy wants to come home to an incompetent wife. No woman wants an incompetent husband. We just have to take the time to establish what our partner is capable of, before assuming they are veteran travelers or handymen – or experienced in dating etiquette or even in sexual courtesy and safety.
You don’t have to have testicles to be a hero, or a warrior, or any other skilled craftsman. Or a dependable partner.
I want a true partner, someone who is as competent as I am. For me, that doesn’t mean being “protected” by a guy or having him take charge just because he IS a guy. Frankly I can’t stand girls who are like what you describe in your story, either. It would have annoyed me just as much regardless of the gender of the person. In a partner I am looking for someone that will a) speak up, b) be fine fending on his own, c) that I trust to make decisions for/about me in my absence, and d) accede to my knowledge when it is greater. They’re all pretty important whether you’re a guy or a girl, I think.
Of course, we should all be warriors! My hero is Boudicca (Boudicea)…
But even she had a strong, warrior man to stand beside, protect and be protected in return…
Strong woman cannot survive with weak men. And vice versa.
Although I think because of the ‘roles’ a weak woman will probably fare better off in the reversals.
You can’t respect anyone, least of all the man you’re with, if they don’t have the balls (or eggs) to fight back occasionally. Especially true if you are a strong woman…
Whoa there were a lot of great comments posted on here! Thanks guys for all your feedback, while i can’t address everybody i will do my best to deal with some of the main concerns you guys have.
So here is the first thing that comes to mind. For me and it may not be for everybody but I’m attracted to guys who know how to take charge. This is not something that i experience on a conscious level, but on a visceral level. I feel it in my body.
N secondly when i say for a guy to take charge i dont mean that he should be over powering, controlling or demanding at all. I more mean .. he just knows what he is doing and if he needs to … he knows how to lead.
I mean after all .. I’m all about equality and what I’m saying, is that if i “feel” that someone isnt even putting as much effort as i am into something .. that really annoys me .. and creates .. “anti – attraction”.
You know for me .. its kind of like a first date. Girls .. how many of you like it when you have to plan the first date? Like where to go, what to do .. and all that stuff.
I dont know about you … but i find it really nice when i dont have to think so much about where we are going to go and i know that … “he” is taking care of things.
N i do have to add one thing. I mean this guy was a really sweet guy. Just really really passive. Like too much for my liking. But he had a girlfriend back home and im sure that she was able to fully appreciate all this good qualities. N over the time that i did spend with him .. i kind of trained myself to appreciate the good things about him, rather than the things that annoyed me. lol …. coz i think otherwise i just would have gone mad.
You know i think at the end of the day, we just want someone who is competent, who is at least on our level. Not too far above and not too far below.
Hot Alpha Female
My guess is the dude was pretty young, like 21ish, and it’s pretty common for guys that age to be clueless when it comes to “taking charge” and acting the man part. It would be really easy for him to play second fiddle to a strong female, which is what appears happened. My suggestion is to teach him a bit about social dynamics and and just tell him that men who are confident and display leadership are attractive.
hey lance,
Yeh well how he was acting in that sense was like a 21 year old. But the fact of the matter was … that he was like 40 or something.
He didn’t act like it though. Like he wasn’t so much immature or anything, just not really “socially with it”.
Its like with my bags when i was taking them off. Like ok im a more independant girl and everything and to a certain extent i like having that independance. That does not mean that i wont accept an offer if you want to help me with my bags. Like most of the time if someone offers to help me out … ill accept it as a really nice and helpful gesture. But this dude … nothing nada. He had no problems when i asked him to do stuff for me … but i had to ask all the time!!!
On the other hand .. i know this other guy … and he knows how to treat you like a woman. If he was in the same situation he would have no even let me touch my bags to lift them off. N when it came time to make a decision, he would have taken charge.
Just because im an alpha female .. doesn’t mean that i still dont like bein taken care of .. and i think that is like a lot of females.
Hot Alpha Female
Hot Alpha Female, I found someone that agrees with you (not surprising, really).
http://www.johnchow.com/how-to-get-a-girlfriend-communication/
Yes, this is a ‘how to get a girlfriend’ series on a business site. His goal is to help all those guys making lots of money with their blogs, but not a clue on how to find a lady to share his life with. He distinguishes between genuine and manipulative techniques, with a focus on the genuine. His genuine/manipulative mention seems to be geared to warning that some things could be abuse (i.e., manipulative).
I would rate the articles as 65% to 80% reasonable. Which is pretty good for a general audience.
Hey Brad,
Thanks for that link, this site is awesome!!!
HAF
A man is a man even when he is insecure (most times it’s not his fault); a woman is a woman even when she is strong (they are not insecure by nature). Are we coming back to old concepts? If you don’t like this kind of men, it’s your right. You don’t need to date them. But don’t diminish them by that. And I know a lot of guys who are able to stand up TO women and can’t stand up FOR them…
JohnWalker, about your comment “A man is a man ..; a woman is a woman”, most of what you refer to are social roles, not genetically determined differences. There are other cultures with other roles.
Much of our culture fragmented in the 1940’s during the War years, and during the 1950’s as women’s place outside the home came under scrutiny. In the 1960’s the war protests, the generation lost in ‘Peace and Love’ and a significant fraction involved in the drug scene flatly discarded many of the then-understood roles of families and community. Since then various role definitions have re-emerged here and there in fragmented form. Now, only a Bizarro cartoon can depict a 14″ tall woman next to a 40″ high cottage setting next to the refrigerator – and one man saying to another “This is the little woman, and as you can see, her place is in the kitchen.” Ha. Ha. Growing up Mom did most of the cooking, but Dad certainly enjoyed cooking when he could find time from tending crops and livestock.
And which gender takes charge, from what I read of history and sociology, is very much dependent on circumstances, and then on role models and social norms.
I think we each tend to grow into the roles we take on.
Brad, maybe my comment wasn’t clear enough. My point is: a man or a woman are much more than their social roles and much more than their specific competences (like cooking or driving a car. Or traveling). The article written by HAF seems to confound true masculinity and feminity with social competences and roles. As you say, these can change with circumstances. If a woman feels insecure with a guy who’s not competent enough when traveling, I understand she could be disappointed. But it doesn’t mean he has no balls!
Just discovered this blog and wow…this article sounds like my doppelganger wrote it. Very well said, and indeed 1000% accurate.
Notably, you didn’t sit your traveling companion down and educate him. Nor should you have to. Men should know this stuff and women are repulsed by the concept of having to teach them.
After all, a woman cannot trust that a man’s leadership skill when it comes to relationship management is genuine unless she knows it’s not simply another passive, conditioned response to her direct input.
Cheers,
Scot McKay
X & Y Communications
Um, Cheekie…after a certain point…no, Boudicca did not have a man to stand beside. The Romans killed him. They murdered him, and they raped and murdered her daughters. They made her watch, and they stripped her and flogged her until she passed out.
It was only after her husband died that she really stepped up to the plate.
Regarding the post…No. I don’t want a man to be ‘the strong one’. Been there, don’t want to again.
I like guys who can match me, strength for strength. So I can be strong when I want, relax when I want, and they can do those same things.
I don’t agree with the ‘women are insecure’ part, I think everyone is insecure to some extent, men and women, at different levels, and at various parts of their lives. Insecurities will stem from many things: social upbringing, family life, one’s own view on themselves, and self-esteem., and it might change throughout our lives. We all have insecurities. The most important thing is to try to keep them in check, and work on issues as we learn through our experiences in life, and try not to let it affect the relationships that we have. Or find a partner that can help with getting through them together.
I do agree with the statement that men (and women) being strong /assertive is one of the most attractive traits and desired traits in a romantic partner. Men can be kind, and strong; sensitive and thoughtful, and at the same time decisive and have their own opinions. It’s a balance of being a good person, and having a spine at the same time. I am still trying to find someone like that.
I have been dating since I have ended my last relationship with an EUM, and pay a lot of attention to the person’s character and personality traits. The EUM projected a fake confidence; I realized later that it was just layers of arrogance and self-protection, a sort of cover-up of how insecure and unloved he really felt on the inside.
I have also met a man recently who was attractive, and ‘nice’: he was consistent, but unfortunately, also had lacked a fun attitude, that easy going, adventurous spirit that I appreciate so much in people. He was nice, but I felt something was ‘off’. He seemed self-absorbed, he didn’t seem to pay attention to what I was saying about myself, and took little interest in me as a person. I felt like his focus was “I need to find a girlfriend.” That was such a turn-off. Well, I ended up being right: he finally admitted that he wasn’t happy where he was in his life, and needs to work on stuff.
So, in the end, the trick is to find someone who has that balance of being content with themselves and their life, a fun spirit, and strong, but kind, too.
Heck to the yeah I’d like a guy with a backbone, not only because of the old theory that men are supposed to stand up for women, but mostly because it gives me this feeling that men are interested to be around me when they initiate something and not just go with whatever I suggests. While women wants to take control of certain things, there is a kind of comfort that we feel when men are taking charge. It flatters me to be in a recieving end of such control because I know that a man is doing this thinking of my benefit. There’s no great feeling in a world for a woman to feel than being cared for.
Heh, feminists got what they wanted: ball-less wonders. Too bad for the rest of you ladies, who were too busy voting/”thinking” with your ovaries (being browbeaten into “weak men are good, schools should indoctrinate accordingly” by your talk shows and magazines) and only now start to realize the truth.
I was raised by a single mom and it took until my mid-20s until I realized “must not be girly-man, am big/strong for good reason, act like man”; some good friends and good books helped a lot to wake me up. Not that I am extra-handsome (by any means, though I “maintain the machine” quite well) but that was the start of ladies taking note!
Now that I am a dad, I am taking extra care to raise my son to be strong while also thoughtful, to be able to consider facts but make decisions quickly based on incomplete data, and to realize he is extra-strong and fast not just to show off, but to be ready to use these traits for good reason: provide and protect.
Few women in the US appreciate this, but that’s fine; they can have the loser girly-men who exfoliate and drink caramel macchiatos.
Dr. Laura Schlessinger made the point in “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”: if you want a shoulder to cry on, see one of your girlfriends. If you need something fixed, built, or killed, come find one of us (we may fail, but at least we’ll try damn hard without expecting 15-minute sensitivity-breaks every hour). We’ll be out back doing much the same thing as 5,000 years ago: drinking fermented grain-squeezings, eating something recently roaming around, and grunting over something that transforms stuff we found in the ground into hot water for showers.
Pester McFester – tres rude.
Perhaps a bit of honor, to go with that extra-strong? I don’t mean, ‘politically correct’, just respect others. Bigotry, in all its forms, is ugly.
I don’t even know why anyone ever came up with the phrase “I want a nice guy!” — but I do. These woman who probably lack a self-esteem are dating men who are treating them horribly, the reason being that they don’t value themselves enough to date the appropriate one. They end up getting so frustrated (unaware or unwillinging) to look within themselves and blurt out “I want a nice guy!”… “I’m tired of getting played, used, abused, etc…”
The reality is most secure, confident people with lives know that they want, need and deserve much more than one adjective in a person which doesn’t deem to be a selling point “NICE”… are you going to buy a product from a sales person because they say it’s nice?
My opinion is, it’s an over-used and analyzed phrase originated from woman, or men who don’t take responsibility in choosing healthy partners with a well-rounded personality.
If you want to search for a partner and just want a “NICE” person… well there are plenty of them out there, but what else are you looking for, what can you offer?
P.S. A definition of a nice guy is someone who lacks confidence and self-esteem, those are the ones the woman don’t want. However, if someone is NICE, but also is confident, secure and able to take initiative that’s a different story. Men and Woman both have to be more than nice; they have to be able to assert themselves so they can challenge eachother to keep interest and relationship alive.
Ok a few things here, first thing is a question. Have you girls ever in your life had the type of guy that takes charge? If so what happened? Did he “take charge” then leave or did he really love you and felt that the only way to make the relationship work half right was to listen to all the oprah you spew on a regular basis. It seems to me that a guy goes through life only two ways now. Either he says screw what a woman thinks or he becomes your friend. Either way woman aren’t going to like him. One more question, did you call him your “friend” before or after the trip cause that may have a lot to do with the situation. People sometimes act differently when they are around different people. May not be the issue you think it its.
You said, “On a biological level it demonstrates that this is someone who is weak and is unable to take care of us.” That’s the bottom line. But the truth is we women do like a man to make us feel they can take charge. It comes down to a primitive sexual drive to be “taken” by someone we know will we can trust to keep us safe. In other words, but someone who would NEVER act like a controlling beast in our daily lives. But when we are with a man we want them to show us some signs they are capable of it. Being a “pleaser” is not only being a liar (because we don’t know where they really stand) , it also shows them to be weak. They don’t stand for anything, so how could they stand up for us?