Whenever people share stories with me that feature them being told, “I’ve only ever had this problem with you” or “You’re the only person who has ever had a problem with this [what they’re doing]”, I pretty much know how the rest of the story is going to go. If they typically tend to agree with other people’s assessments and struggle to trust their judgement, they’ll take what was said to heart and take the blame for that person’s actions and attitude.
There’s a first time for everything.
We all say and do things at times that on reflection, are not representative of who we are in the main and are more reflective of how we responded in that moment. The fact that at other times in the past we’ve behaved differently, doesn’t negate the fact that on a particular occasion, we took a detour and it doesn’t make it the fault of the person who was around for it.
It’s easier to learn from a transgression when we’re not suppressing who we are. That’s why if we’re being genuine in our claim of never having done it before, we can learn from the insights we potentially stand to gain from this particular issue and get back on track. If we don’t typically have an honest reading on our feelings, thoughts, actions, needs etc, we’ll have been tuning out information that we don’t want to have to deal with, even if it’s unconsciously. Some people are so skilled at dodging responsibility and accountability, that they make sure that they bail and press The Reset Button with someone else. They might even have the brass neck to blame the party in question first, and then bail before that person has a right of reply, leaving them free to keep up the pretense.
When a person responds to you raising an issue with the You’re The First / You’re The Only One With A Problem defense, it’s a responsibility dodging stance that sends a very clear message:
I’m not interested in listening to your feedback or addressing the situation. This is a you-specific problem.
If you typically tend to own your own and let others own theirs, while you’re still likely to be taken aback by their stance, you won’t just agree with their assertions and will in fact, assert yourself by making your position clear. If, however, you’re a blame absorber and typically tend to respond to other people’s behaviour by wondering, What’s wrong with me? and Why aren’t I good enough for this person to be and act differently?, you’ll doubt and/or suppress your feelings, opinions, needs, expectations, and wishes, and then decide that it’s you that’s ‘wrong’. You’ll also try to ‘fix’ you to fix them.
This defense has a similar effect as ‘The Ruse’: When a person tells you that you can ask so-and-so / that they have proof if you don’t believe them, knowing full well that you won’t want to appear as if you don’t trust what they’re telling you.
Even if you ignore the issue you raised, the fact that they would attempt to shut you down or even ‘chop’ at you in a manner that suggests that you either created/provoked the issue at hand, or that you are ‘hypersensitive’ or even making it up, speaks volumes about their receptiveness to feedback and their conflict style.
It’s not that they have to agree with you – remember, it’s an opportunity for discussion where each of you can share your points of view, gain clarity and reach a conclusion / find a resolution – but when we’re able to receive feedback and yes, sometimes that’s in the form of criticism, it’s a sign of humility and a reasonable level of open-mindedness. We are safe enough in our own relationship with us that we hear feedback – even if it’s not true or only partly true, the sky isn’t about to fall down if we hear it.
When they’re claiming that the issue has only occurred with you, it’s a round-the-houses way of saying that you’re the cause of the problem or that you are the problem.
When they’re claiming that you’re the only one who has taken issue with something, they’re basically saying that everyone else is ‘on board’ and that what they’re being and doing is acceptable.
Even if it were true that no one else has said something, that doesn’t invalidate your issue. For a start, they may be surrounded by brown-nosers (harem), Yes People, and those too afraid to speak up. Some people may also be happy to expect less of them. It may be that you’re able to articulate something that others haven’t. It may be that they have worsened with something and that you are experiencing them at that point.
Your experience is your experience. If we all ran around claiming that all of our experiences were the same, we could just close our eyes, not learn a damn thing, and bumble around unconsciously. They can’t make a direct comparison – you weren’t even in the experience that they’re comparing to plus they’re biased!
Ask a woman if she’s ever faked an orgasm and most will say that they have at some point. Ask a guy if they’ve ever had a woman fake an orgasm with them, and most will claim that they haven’t… And don’t even start me on the amount of people who won’t admit that they didn’t enjoy sex because, well, most of us are ‘too polite’ to say so and fear hurting feelings. I remember an ex taking deep offense to me objecting to his jackhammer moves, claiming no one had ever taken issue with it. Yeah, he’d just never seen most of them again and I bet some of them had a neck brace or had to walk with a cane afterwards! Anyway, I digress…
If you get the You’re The First / You’re The Only One With A Problem defense, don’t let it thwart you. You’re not ‘everyone else’, there’s a first time for everything (even though it’s highly likely when someone uses this defense that it’s not the first time), and this is about the here and now and what’s going on between you. Do they care? Do they want to hear you out or shut you down?
You’re expressing how you feel and your perspective and it’s not conducive to a discussion for the other party’s contribution to be the equivalent of, “You’re wrong / You’re the problem / You created/provoked my behaviour.” What kind of conversation can you have from there? Feelings, thoughts, and opinions aren’t facts but the first step in being able to assimilate what’s going on, is having the environment, the safety, and the compassion to do so.
Don’t backtrack, acknowledge what they’ve said, and ask them what they mean by their assertion – this is better than immediately jumping to the conclusion that you are ‘wrong’ etc. Most people when they get hit with this defense, don’t get the person to qualify their statement. If they did, they would get a clearer view of that person’s perspective and what’s driving them. Some won’t even have anything to come back with and some will come back with something that’s actually not comparable. Some will get super-defensive and then you’ll realise that you’ve tripped on their conflict and criticism trigger and that until they’re able to be in the present and listen to you, that they’re going to keep defending without really hearing you out.
If they say that there’s no priors, gently but firmly remind them that you’re not any of those people and that you may both be affected by entirely different conditions. Calmly explain your position – stick to 3 key points and be factual about what happened as opposed to going straight to the conclusion of your feelings or making a statement about their intentions / behaviour. Let them explain.
Don’t be so quick to be shot down or to believe the hype. Ultimately, the You’re The First / You’re The Only One With A Problem defense is flawed because in reality, if a person wholeheartedly believes in their position and is connected with who they are, why do they need to bring all of these ‘others’ into it? They Doth Protest Too Much!
Your thoughts?
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Oh Natalie ! All along I thought it was me having ‘problems’ with my relationships, yet it was my viper, evil-tongued ‘friend’ who was telling me stories and blowing up issues in my face, causing me to attack the ones I loved.
I will be using the ‘what do you mean by that?’ assertion far more often – if I decide the friendship is worth it that is.
Ugh. My assclown ex tried that on me exactly twice.
Time #1
HER: “Nobody else has ever called me a liar or cheater.”
ME: “Then why do you keep all your exes separate so they can’t compare notes? Give me one ex’s contact number or e-mail address and I will prove it.”
>>crickets<>more crickets<<
Time#2
Her: “None of my other exes ever said I was a manipulative snake whose words and deeds never matched.”
Me: None of your other exes were smart enough to even spell manipulation, much less define it. Had any of them gone to college (or learned to read) they would have learned all about bitches like you in abnormal psych 101.”
>>>more crickets<<<
Ha Karen love it. I had a similar exchange with my ex.
Him: Noone else ever accused me of lying like you did or had a problem with me disappearing.
Me: And your exes had IQ’s at least 100 points below mine.
Love those crickets! When ever you call someone on their rinky dink shady behaviour, that’s all you ever hear!
Then you just know the BS is flying thick and fast.
Well this was a timely posting….
Backstory***Day 2 of NC with near 3 month relationship that morphed into a justification relationship when it should have stayed into the discovery phase much longer. I saw the amber flags and identified them as such at the time. Giving the guy a little more time,wanting to investigate further into seeing what kind of growth he had, and not making a rush to the exit door just yet. Time progresses and then the holidays were here. And mistletoe. Fa La La. Slipped into an emotional connection while the amber flags turned into red flags.(He is EU) The deeper the conversation, the more shallow he got, thinks that confrontation avoiding (and avoiding in general) is actually a positive trait–just ask him. He will tell you what a great guy he is. And all the stories that I have already heard thrice. Last two weeks relationship went into a nose dive while he avoided talking about some concerns I had and that he thinks I am confrontational in even wanting to have a reasonable conversation.But he can text like nobody’s business even after me telling him that I prefer to not text about serious matters.
(He does phone calls too and lots of in person but once the mounting inevitable like a conversation was looming, he was text text text, and mostly silly stuff all about him and what he is doing. (avoiding)
My downfall in this is that I knew this was going nowhere about a month ago and thought he was just so into me that I didn’t want to be the one to break up, so I did us both a disservice in not being authentic when I should have been. I just did not have peace within about the whole relationship and where it wasn’t going–internal wakeup and take some action.
Know better do better next time.
So I let him kinda end things and told him I was thinking the same thing and that I didn’t want to be the one to do it. Relieved and hurt at the same time.
I kid you not he texts me the next morning like nothing happened. Second downfall, I engaged. Three times through out the next two days I ask him why he is contacting me. Never did answer me. Just more about him and what he is doing. Even sent a long text describing a fantasy he had with me. After the breakup!!
Things got ugly —mostly him for a few days and didn’t talk for a few in between. It was over but I didn’t want to end things on a bad note. So I text him, (I know lame, but it’s his preferred mode)to tell him that I do not have hard feelings, wish him well and offered a olive branch of peace, that this did not change things but just wanted to end on a good note.
(Closure for me)
But not for him. The texting started again like there was no breakup. Told him that if he wanted to actually talk I would be open to that but I would not be texting further.
So we have the phone call, hashed some behavior from the previous week out, and for the for the first time in my life I get: “You are the first person to ever say that, or think that, everyone else….
At this point there were more flags waving than there was at the olympics, I just listened and didn’t confront because I already knew the answers. He dribbled some truth that he was deceptive of before, and did so because I would just go into confrontation mode had he been truthful was his defense. I am laughing as I type because I was the one that went into yeah, uh-huh mode. It just wasn’t worth my energy to decide which red flag to discuss. And it didn’t matter because it was over. Mutual decision. We both verbalized that it wasn’t a good idea to move forward.
It ended well. Good. He left it open that if I had any other thoughts to let him know.
Guess what?
Next morning I get a text with pictures of him showing me a home improvement project he had completed at home.
WTF? We had been essentially breaking up for over a week and with much finality the night before.
I am thinking this guy has got some motives and that I do not want to continue with engagement.
It was over but I needed to disengage to heal my emotional investment and move on.
And in THAT weakness I texted him back thinking that I needed more closure (why I don’t know). But I said that I needed to run some thoughts by him and would he be available the next night (tonight). He wasn’t sure but gave me his schedule for the rest of the week.
In that moment I thought, I am not giving this guy another opportunity for me to try to engage and for him to avoid.
Oh how we can waffle!
Here is the beauty….wait for it.
I let him hang for several hours while I stumbled onto this site and read, read, read. I see my old self, growth,where I need to take those amber and red flags and tighten the boundaries in the discovery phase, and be more decisive sooner. When someone shows us who they are, we need to believe them, the first time.
He is not an ass clown but I love to say it, because we have all known one…or two! And he is not a bad guy in general but I can not be in a relationship with an avoider, of ANY kind or any kind of deceipt. I asked the probing questions, identified values and character, but didn’t want to convict the guy on his past decisions. Where was his growth? Show me the growth! It never showed up in the relationship.
Anyway, I have read this site and it could not have been more timely.
My text reply to him later in the day was:
Never mind I have bounced my thoughts already and have decided to opt out of further input. Also I am opting out of further continued communication until significant time passes (especially texting). Hope you understand.
I received a text reply: OK
Got another text later in the day and another today.
I am keeping track. This will be interesting.
Have replied to none of them and am well on my my to emotional rebound. It will take some time, he treated me well most of the time with few exceptions (but non are acceptable), taking the good stuff, and moving on.
This NC isn’t about him. I need my space and to break what had become a daily habit of him. Takes 21 days to break a habit. I should be good by then.
But there is some satisfaction in having a taste of the upper hand. Amazing what people will really show of themselves when they are not getting their way or losing control.
I imagine the contact attempts will subside once he figures out that I said what I mean and I mean what I say.
BTW–love the term “opt out”….And ass clown. Priceless.
For those of you struggling and I can see myself in you 15 years ago, Don’t ever let someone determine your value. Ever. Keep on keeping on.
Natalie–Have forwarded this site to a girlfriend and a sister. And will continue to pass it along across the US. Great truths on this site. Will refer back to it and already have.
I don’t remember writing this but it seems as if I did because it is exactly my most recently ended relationship! How is that possible?!?!!! Oh geez….
OMG Natalie! You hit the nail on the head. I was the only one who questioned why he was receiving texts in the middle of the night. That was all my “problem” and I’m just jealous. Well, turns out I was right. Never mess with a woman’s intuition!
I’ve just returned home from a trip to the US where I spent a month with someone I thought might have some potential. Overall, I had a nice time, but there were so many red flags. I have an awful habit of choosing controlling men and disappointedly, it was similar this time. The difference though was that I was much more aware this time and got to practice my newly found BR skills.
This man was intent on slotting me into his life, his rules, and his way of doing things (e.g. right down to what I could and could not drink). I am a self-confessed people pleaser and past doormat, so at first I had a hard time coping, but I was determined not to let this happen again. At times I felt myself falling back into the role of doormat, but by the end of the month I had regained my sense of self and gently refused to let him bulldoze me. It was obvious that he wasn’t happy with this and I tried to discuss it, but he refused to engage so I didn’t push it.
Our last night we were having dinner with friends of his and I was offered a glass of wine. He outrageously decided that I couldn’t have one annoying everyone present. I knew he wasn’t happy, but I wanted some wine and had some. On the way back I tried to talk about it. He said that I’d embarrassed him and that I obviously had a drinking problem (I’d had one glass of wine!). He then refused to discuss it anymore. Ultimately, although I found him very attractive I reasoned that we probably wouldn’t make it, but would at least remain friends.
My last morning he took me to an exhibition I wanted to see and I thought things were ok between us. He then dropped me off at the airport, but didn’t stay which I thought was odd. I thought he might ring to ask me how the journey went, but he didn’t call. The next day I rang him, but he’s refusing to answer my calls! I sent him a quick email, but he hasn’t replied. I am completely baffled! I’m ok with the fact that we probably aren’t compatible, that is I am disappointed but accepting, but why the cold shoulder?
As Nat says in this post I’m completely taken aback by his stance and this has triggered all my insecurities and self-doubt. I don’t understand what has happened and I feel like I’ve done something wrong. I can handle him not wanting to pursue the relationship further as we are clearly not compatible, but I was hoping to remain friends with him, but he has completely shut me down. I’m feeling bad and it reminds me of all the hurt I experienced at the hands of the AC.
Hi Lily,
You wrote:
“I’m completely taken aback by his stance and this has triggered all my insecurities and self-doubt”
That is exactly what this controling and passive aggressive waste of space wants to achieve. The more insecure you become the easier it will be for him to control you, and clearly it is working in his favour.
Well done for drinking your glass of wine but you really need to disconnect from this full-blown AC SUBITO and FOR GOOD!
Why do you even want to be friends with such a loser? I think you are still feeling alot of attraction, because seriously, that can be the only thing keeping you hooked. You spent one month with him, on a daily basis I suppose, and than Kaboom GONE!
If you’re lucky he will never pick up the phone again. You deserve much better. Be strong girl!
Lilly,
The only way to get out of these dynamics is to kick these clowns off the pedestal and put yourself up there for a while.
So, when he was questioning your drinking, NOT ask yourself “Oh no, am I drinking too much?” but rather “Hm, do I really want to be around an anal-retentive older neurotic?”.
And, when he didn´t stay around at the airport: “Jeez, would I even want to wait for my plane looking at his grumpy face?” and then, when reminiscing, “Well, would I really want to have a jerk like that in my life, even as a friend?”.
If you listen to yourself instead of to the ACs, you´ll soon discover that no, you don´t. No way and good riddance.
Lilia, I am guilty of this one again! I’m a sucker for the intellectual and did put him up on a pedestal. I have to stop doing that and I will start to listen to myself more. I remember questioning myself when he didn’t like something (the wine was just an example there were many other things he didn’t want me to do). At one point about two weeks in he upset me and embarrassingly I started to cry!! I remember thinking I should just go home. I should have listened to myself then and there. Next time I will, thank you.
lilly
intellectuals are often diconnected from feelings, no need to put them on pedestal if this is the case. Also, please, get rid of this dude, I’m assuming you met him online or something. He is not even worthy of friendship. Why be friends with someone controlling? That won’t help you disconnect from that type of person. NC all the way. Hope you had a decent vacation in a nice place. That’s all this was, a vacation. Time to get back to being Lilly.
RP, I agree that this was passive aggressive behaviour (“behind the smile, a hidden knife”). He was all smiles before I left (I even have photos). I did spend every day with him, it was intense, and then as you describe Kaboom he was gone. I’m not so much upset that it didn’t work out, disappointed may be, but I was upset that he decided to stonewall me. I am still attracted to him, the question is why? Time to work on that, thank you.
Lilly,
Practicing BR skills does not mean learning how to better interact with assclowns. That’s like learning how to get hit by a car without getting maimed. No, it means learning how recognize red flags and ACT on them, to walk away and not give them the chance to control you, hurt you, and make you doubt yourself. You’ve been down this road Lilly. Pigs’ ear does not equal a silk purse no matter how well you learn to deal with the pig’s ear. I went down this same road with two short lived relationships while trying to be a BR girl…except I only got half the concept and was still dealing with assclowns and the result was the same, no matter how stealth I was at dealing with them. It’s a losing game. The price is your self esteem and wondering why you all your new skills didn’t change the outcome. Because he is an assclown and it has NOTHNG to do with you other than you choosing to engage. You could be Mother Thereasa and he would still be an assclown. Lilly, please understand that he is a control freak wierdo ( telling you that you can’t have wine like you’re a child? C’mon!). Yes, he’s disappointed in you because you ‘disobeyed’ him. Who the hell is this guy with an ego the size of Napoleon? Please see the how ridiculous that is. You are good enough as you are, you don’t need a man who tries to bring you down to be loved. Forget this guy. You are WAY better than him.
Selkie, I needed to hear this. This was exactly what I was doing! Trying to cope with the red flags instead of walking away or should I say running away from them! My self-esteem has taken another hit, but I won’t be giving him any more chances it’s time to BR up. I keep telling myself that his behaviour has nothing to do with me and it’s not about my worth. I am good enough as I am. Wanting a glass of wine with dinner is ok, drinking black tea is ok, wearing heels sometimes is ok, etc, etc. Thank you for the reminder.
Lilly,
Selkie’s advice is right on. I think it’s common to start out by trying to apply our new BR skills to these guys….but the lesson is that our behaviour does not change a thing. This guy is a controlling, disrespectful jerk. Our boundaries and our BR knowledge serve to let us know when we need to sever ties with someone like this.
I think over time, we get better and better at reading a situation and a person for what it is, and not wasting time and effort to see if things get better. Why would we want to? If this is how he behaves early on when someone is usually on his best behaviour, what awful surprises await?
If you were dealing with a decent human being, then having a conversation and trying to understand where he’s coming from would be a useful exercise. But with guys like this, it’s a total waste of time and it’s how we get caught up: doubting ourselves, wondering if we did something to cause his behaviour, etc.
Good for you for telling this guy that you’re not compatible – I’m sure he was expecting for you to beg for his forgiveness and to give you a chance (the ridiculous jerk that he is). Instead, you gave him a nice surprise!
Regarding the allure of controlling men, does this play into a familiar family dynamic?
In any case, I know that you’ll get better and better at weeding this type of man out earlier and earlier on. Try to stay busy with friends and other activities that you enjoy – my concern is that in trying to get over the ex and in perhaps feeling a bit lonely, you may let someone else into your life who isn’t worthy of you.
Lilly,
Before you went out there he was showing you who he was. He didn’t like travel etc. (code for; I want to be on my home turf and in control, I want all the power and I will not compromise). That’s a month of your life you’ll never get back.
You cannot win against an assclown, all you can do is flush hard and fast, so they DONT get to waste your time and hurt you. He can’t be your friend, he is a piece of work, right to the end. He’s throwing a tantrum now but he’ll likely be warm and friendly and full of BS explanations, once he’s sure he has punished you enough.
Lock him out before he does.
Mymble,that was exactly what it was like. At times it was fun and I did enjoy it, but if I’m truly honest there were several times when I considered coming back early. You’re right it’s a month I can never get back, but I can make sure no more time is wasted. I’m sick of being hurt, sick of being so pathetic, sick of being a doormat. It really is time to change. Thank you.
Lilly
Be thankful that you found out exactly who he is.
You have done nothing wrong, don’t even go there. Controlling men are the worst of the lot and they don’t get better, they get worse as time goes by. You would be walking on eggshells for the rest of your life, in fact you wouldn’t have a life with one of these types of men.
Be thankful that he isn’t taking your calls or replying to your emails, he’s punishing you for going against his express wish about having one drink at dinner. Wow Lilly! you should be thrown into jail for doing such a bad thing! Then he dumps you at the airport and leaves and then … nothing! He couldn’t even call to see if you got home alright, what does that tell you.
Be thankful that he lives so far away and won’t be around to make your life a living hell.
Go NC and don’t contact him again, he has no intentions of ever being your friend. With a bit of luck you’ll never hear from him again.
You’re safe home now Lilly, chalk it up to experience, it didn’t work out so take a break and realise that you haven’t done anything wrong.
Pauline,
I agree about the eggshells. I suspect he was on his best behaviour whilst I was there and no doubt it would have got far worse. The wine incident was just one of several. He didn’t like me drinking black tea, eating sugar, wearing heels, etc, etc. I’ve got to explore why I’m attracted to controlling men and why they seem to like me. I think it’s back to the therapist for me. Thank you Pauline, I will try to chalk it up to experience. Perhaps I’m one of those people who would do best on their own.
Lilly,
Yep, this is one of your patterns, and you are the only one who can break it. You need to figure out what the pay off is, or you will just keep repeating the pattern.
I really hope you figure this out for your sake Lilly; you’ve been through so much. Sheesh, isn’t enough–enough?
Some patterns are so sneaky and insidious. Sometimes you think you’ve broken a pattern and then it rears it’s ugly head again…lather, rinse, repeat.
Don’t worry though, think of this pattern as an arrow, pointing to an area inside of YOU, in need of more work, and the lessons you learn will serve you well.
Up and at ’em Lily, you can break this pattern. ~:)
And let me be clear: It’s not about blaming yourself. It’s about taking responsibility for your side of the street.
I remember this controlling-preposition-police-guy; as Allison said, the red flags were there before you got on the plane.
I think it can be awfully hard sometimes to implement what we learn on BR into real life, so maybe you will hear the tough love voices of those of us who are willing to give it to you straight, but you will find comfort in the voices with the softer touch.
I’m not a people pleaser anymore, thanks to Natalie, but I tend to be harsh sometimes, so I just don’t want you to feel like you did something wrong; I’m just encouraging you to work on you and move forward in your journey.
(hugs)
Camillah, yes I desperately need to hear this and I don’t think you are being harsh. I need to break this pattern. I’ve tried to figure out what the pay off is. I know there is one, but can’t work it out just yet and you’re right enough is enough. What’s that idiom – jumping from the frying pan into the fire. As I just said to Pauline it’s back to the therapist for me. Thank you for pointing this out if I can work this out I won’t keep getting hurt. I want to be a stronger, more assertive woman from the get go, not three weeks into the trip!
Lilly,stop ringing men, emailing them, getting on airplanes and chasing what you think may be potential.Stop putting yourself out there for these men. From now on LET THEM COME TO YOU.Let the next guy make the effort.
Lilly, Lilly, Lilly! What are we going to do with you? You are a grown woman. It’s time to put on the big girl’s pants. You’re not a child and no shite-ass gets to order you not to have one effin’ glass of wine at dinner!!! Who the hell is he? A monster that’s who. You have got to break this pattern, and SOON. No, NOW! Please don’t date anyone. It’s too soon. Getting involved with this poor excuse for a “man” is proof that you have more work to do on yourself so that you can make better choices and not get hurt. This is not to say that you will never make a bad choice again but the choices should be MUCH BETTER. You are such a sweet, gentle soul – fodder for AC’s. I’m so glad this ass is not in your country. How long have you known him to come here to the U.S. for a MONTH? That’s a long time to spend with someone you barely know, if that’s the case. Be grateful and leave it alone. PLEASE. Don’t let him kick you in the butt again via phone, email, etc. Try to concentrate on loving yourself, Lilly. I beg of you. This hurts me and I’ve never even met you. But, following you from day one I feel like a “big sister” who wants to protect you from the big bad wolf. The more I write here, the angrier I am becoming, so I will close. Lilly, let go and let God (help you). Praying for you. Love, Tink.
P.S. I’m so glad you are letting us know what is going on so that we can try to steer away from the cliff.
Tink, I know, I’ve done it again! There is something inherently wrong with me and I have a sign on my forehead saying controlling ACs welcome preferably narcissistic ones! Thank God for BR because I have been steered away from that cliff. Reading everyone’s comments has made it all much clearer, he is definitely passive aggressive, he is punishing me for not towing the line and I need to go NC immediately and I have. I responded to his email today (probably a mistake, but it made me feel better) that it had been nice spending time with him, but I feel we’re not compatible and wished him well. Simple and short. I won’t respond or contact him again. I’m sick of feeling so hurt Tink. I took a chance because it made me feel good and stopped me thinking about the AC, the baby (omg now I’m crying again) and all that had happened. For a while there I felt ok. It was an escape I suppose. I don’t know Tink it’s back to the drawing board and time to make a new appointment with my therapist. Thank you for your prayers and love to you too.
Simple pleasures, when I first read your comment I thought he had made the effort too, but then realised it was me who had traveled all that way and traveled all that way to be molded into his ideal woman. I did however think it was worth a shot because he seemed nice and I didn’t feel I had anything to lose which was obviously incorrect. I will have to rethink my actions in the future. I don’t however think there was anything wrong with me trying to find out why he’d suddenly gone cold that’s why I phoned and sent the one email. I didn’t understand what had happened. I was just confused. After reading all these comments it’s clearer now and I won’t make any more mistakes with this man and as for any future ones the thought is terrifying. I don’t want to feel hurt ever again.
It reminds you of all the hurt because that’s your gut telling you to get out. You can’t be friends with him. He doesn’t want a friend,, he wants a living Barbie Doll to control and play with. Too bad you’re an actual human being with wants, needs and desires of your own.
He doesn’t call, email etc because he doesn’t want to. He’s done and moving on. Let him, there is nothing there for you but loss of dignity and self respect. Stop calling and emailing. Work on yourself. Ask yourself why are you looking for the phone calls, emails etc. What are you looking to get out of them? Validation? Self worth? Only you can validate yourself. Self worth is just that, comes from self, not external sources.
Lilly
Be glad you dodged this bullet. Since when are we “slotted” into someone’s life like a spare part?!
Noquay, perfect description! As flee said above too bad that I’m an actual human being with wants, needs and desires of my own. I hope you are managing with the awful weather.
Flee, now I’m home and have some space I can see that he wanted someone to control and play with and you’re right he doesn’t want a friend. What was I thinking? Disappearing on me after our spending all that time together felt terrible and I desperately wanted clarification. My self-esteem took a hit again and it wasn’t very good to begin with. Much more work to do on myself, thank you.
Amazing BR ladies and gent,
I have taken on board each and every post and feel empowered, thank you so, so much. I received an email from him today (I’ve been home for 4 days). He said that he’d been very busy (an AC favourite right there), was glad that I made it home safely, that I was a lovely, sweet woman whose company he enjoyed, but that I’d hurt him (he didn’t say how!), that there is a lot to process about us and that he was taking his time integrating it all. Well he can stop ‘integrating’ as he won’t be enjoying my company again! I replied saying that I didn’t think we were compatible, but wished him well. I am now NC with him and will not be backtracking. I will respond to all who took the time to comment so please bear with me and please know that I am so grateful. I was feeling terrible, but now feel strong and know I’ve done the right thing.
22 days NC and today was a tough one, sigh…as soon as I feel like I’m getting stronger, I have a day or two that I slide backwards…
My ex did say this to me a lot, especially at the end of our relationship.
Him: when we met I thought, now there’s a girl I can see never arguing with.
Him: I have never argued more with a girl than with you.
That made me sad to hear because I’m an easy going person and I truly had a hard time believing he didn’t argue with other girlfriends like that. Unless the other women he dated were pushovers or his past relationships were more superficial and he was very close to me spiritually and that scared the hell out of him, making him feel vulnerable.
I think what I’m struggling with the most, is that although we were close sexually, we never made love. It was his decision. He told me to go find someone that could give me what I wanted. But I fell in love with him. I was willing to wait because I loved him so much. I have never loved a man more than I loved him and it hurts so much to not make love to him. How do you move on from that? I have had relationships that involved sex and I got over them sooner than I’m moving on from this guy. We dated a year and a half and were friends for a year after. I guess the friend part existed because I just couldn’t let go or realize we would never make love. Now I’m 22 days NC from it all and it’s so painful some days…
Wendy, hang in there with the NC! You do need to get unhooked from this guy who is committing fouls everywhere. Openly comparing you unfavourably to his previous women, that’s a foul. Withholding sex — or only taking things as far as he wants to take them, for control purposes — for 18 months? That’s a foul too. That’s 30 months worth of “maybe if you’re good enough I’ll relent… oops looks like you’re just not quite good enough yet! Keep trying!” He is a narcissistic control freak waste of time. Reach for the handle and flush.
Grizelda,
You have no idea how much that helps to hear you say those things! I’m really struggling and BR and you all are helping me stay strong when I don’t really feel very strong! Thank you! Hugs 🙂
Wendy,
I feel for you, that is hard to let go of, at least if you made love, you went all the way and then if it didn’t work out, at least you tried. This guy wouldn’t even let you try. He is not normal that is for sure and I think he is far more damaged than you can even concieve. He plays mind games and he’s possibly cruel. Did he believe that you had to be married before sex? If it’s not religous, then you gotta wonder what is wrong. Let him go and move on to a man who can give you everything a woman deserves. Good luck!
He’s never been married and is not a virgin, lol…He told me it had been years since he had sex with a woman. His ex before me and him never had sex, but the one before her, they did. I use to always think in the back of my mind that he was still in love with that girl. I asked him, but he said no. He did meet up with her a few months ago just to check in and see how things were going. They dated YEARS ago, why “check in”. I think he still loved her and just wasn’t that into me. I mean, I want to think he was into me, but who plays mind games with people they love??? He said we had an amazing spiritual connection and the most amazing chemistry with me, but felt like he was losing his identity in our relationship, so that’s why he pulled away physically…It’s sad for me because I adored that man, imperfections and all…Now I’m just trying to heal and figure out how to move forward…BTW, today is 27 days NC…
I’ve heard that line many times from my ex. He verbally abused me for two years and when I asked about his ex wife ( which he was with for 15yrs) he would tell me he never had these problems with her or call her the horrible names he called me. That took me too a deep dark place in my life but thank God I was finally able to step outside of it and see it for what it really was. He would also say the same things about his drug and alcohol use……but he also only hung out with alcoholics and pill poppers.
Lilly,
Please ask yourself why you would want to be friends with someone who was disrespectful, and is also a control freak?
This is coming from a good place: you need to recognize your patterns with these older, controlling, long distance, manipulative men. I remember you writing about this guy after you met, and he had already shown many red flags that you were not comfortable with.
Please take a break from dating and get to know yourself, being single is really not such a bad thing. When you are ready, the right person will appear.
Allison, it is an awful pattern and I’m going to make a huge effort to change. I don’t know how yet, but I will. I wasn’t really looking when I met him, he was sort of there and I just went with it. Like I said to Tink he made me feel good for a while and I didn’t think about the AC. Now I’m thinking about the AC again and he never minded me having a glass of wine or two or black tea with sugar. I don’t know which one is worse. Thank you.
“I remember an ex taking deep offense to me objecting to his jackhammer moves, claiming no one had ever taken issue with it. Yeah, he’d just never seen most of them again and I bet some of them had a neck brace or had to walk with a cane afterwards! Anyway, I digress…”
Ok, that’s just flaming hilarious, right there!! And GAWD can I relate!!!
I believe many of these men say “nobody has ever complained” is because they know that you have no way of finding out the truth. I bet if you talk to past gf and lovers they would tell you different. There maybe a possibility that you are the first one to call them on their b.s., but it’s not the first time they exhibited that behavior.
It helps to read that others had this experience
HIM: I’ve never argued and been this mean to anyone in my life like I am with you.
I don’t know…he is almost 50, been married twice and had many failed relationships on top of that, but telling me that he had never been that mean and vicious to another “girlfriend” when they argued certainly made me feel pretty bad about myself.He said when we argued i apparently became “the enemy” and there was no holding back because he was at “war” He definitely let me know that I brought that out in him which meant all those other girlfriends and wives apparently treated him better, were more loving and kind, gentle etc and left me feeling like I was just an awful sh#t.
It’s funny too, when he would say sorry…he got me too feel sorry for him for behaving that way because somehow it was actually something about me that brought that out in him. He felt bad for himself not me who he had unleashed on. UGH
Unlike,
I hope you’re not still seeing this piece of you know what! He’s a liar! If he’s been through all of that with other women, I’m sure he’s behaved abominably and cause all kinds of outrage from those other women. Don’t believe a word of it. As Kayakagirl said, they probably paid for their rebellion with a broke jaw or leg in addition to a broken heart.
Boy I needed to hear this today! NC day 29 – all those things he said to me kept running in my head –
HIM: this isn’t going work, there is too much friction
HIM: No one else has a problem with me, they all think I’m a really good, nice guy.
ME: Well, they aren’t in a relationship, or living with you.I’m not a client of yours.
I truly was starting to think the problem was me. we had this discussion like this a few times and he has the audacity to say “he’s afraid of things returning to this?” while he was trying to mess with my head.
Well, if you wanted to engage rather than blame me, then, no, I guess this isn’t going to work. The relationship was completely one-sided and all the breaking-up/getting back together was about me giving up more power to him – so he could continue to act as he does without really caring or respecting me and just shut me down to stop me from standing up for myself.What a crazy-making fool. So yeah, he can go back to dating women that have to depend on him for everything and cower to his demands – but not me. If this is how you treat “the best person you’ve ever had in your life” even though he treated everyone else better – I’m not sticking around for it.
Thank you Natalie for this very helpful post. I used to be reminded by the ex that he thought he had found his match…but it was my impatience and quick temper that did him in.This really threw me as I spent a lot of time helping him and he readily admitted he was a person who made people impatient. Over the course of our relationshit he said enough to really mentally affect me – I was asking a friend am I really like this…they said I am who I am and that is ok. I was so distressed and felt I was the one with the problem. This has affected my confidence and self esteem a lot. I was routinely told that he had remained friends with his exes and only said nice things about them. Just over a year ago he moved on without telling me and the months following this were so painful. The new relationship did not last and I met up with him again a a few weeks back – worse move ever as I felt stressed waiting for my “behaviour” to be an issue again. I am stressed anyway with my job and this added to this. At the airport I foolishly asked when I would see him again and his answer suggested many months away. I was not happy and he attacked me verbally saying that his other relationships were not like this etc. I could not say anything except to go and meet someone like me. He said a number of other hurtful things that demeaned me in public. I felt so wretched and mad at myself and upset as I was returning to a bad work situation in a lonely place. I knew I should not trust him but he was pushing to get back together, future faking and saying things that I sort of wanted to hear. I think it was some sort of revenge as he blamed me for the other relationship breaking up. I made sure she knew what he really did and she was angry at him and me. He wanted to tell me what happened but I was angry and did not want to hear about it. My friends could not believe I met up with him – one said that I must be addicted to his hate. He wiped the floor with me again and walked off without a backward glance.
I meant – go and meet someone not like me
To Lilly:
You keep saying: we are not compatible.The guy showed you enough of his assclownery. Be happy that you know this early! Imagine if he played with you in LDR for a long ti e: the controlling, the judgments ( alcoholic with 1 glass?!?!).
Read Nats post Blessing in Disguise. And darling, it’s not you, it’s him!
Elleo412, thank you for commenting. I did feel like an alcoholic with the 1 glass! He kept looking at me every time I picked up the glass and I felt so uncomfortable that I didn’t have a second one, although his friends did. Thanks for the tip I will read Nats post right now.
Brandy,
Some of the things your ex said sounds exactly like my ex! I always think that some of us were seeing the same guy!
Hi Wendy,
I am somewhat comforted by the fact I’m not the only one to care too much/be duped…but it’s scary there’s so many people like this.
I admit I go into silent treatment because I need time to figure out my own feelings- especially with clowns like this & I am working on rectifying that & establishing boundaries & I assumed his mistakes but honestly- the last time we talked he was all puffed up like I owed him an apology…unfortunately I did apologize but it is what a grown up does but do you think he could even spell the ‘sorry’ in an email? Not on your life!
I have two comments on Lilly’s post.
1. He applied No Contact to you, I guess this is what it feels like. It hurts like hell, I could never do it to anyone and was very hurt when someone did it to me
2. Regarding 1 glass of wine. There could have been something preceding it. Yes, it is controlling of someone to say you can’t have a glass, but strange coming out of the blue. Perhaps when you met and enjoyed great time together drinking was part of the action. In the past I had one woman who made me feel this way. It was because of her attitude towards drinking, smoking, pot, enjoying things if you like it. Even though she was not an alcoholic, when she drank she could drink a lot more then I and also, it seemed like she had to have a drink every time we went somewhere, during intermissions at theater during dinner,etc. Bottom line: she likes to drink, although not an alcoholic. But I think it made me see a potential and I disliked it. So I made some comments asking why she always had to have a drink. Sort of in a caring way I thought. Because, a few times she was drunk she acted so foolishly I was not comfortable. I also commented on her smoking, and how she smells so much better when she did not smoke. She IS NOT smoking anymore, I think this is so nice. No pot either, although if she goes with friends who drink, smoke, etc. she will still do it as before. I was good influence in that respect.
My point is often these controlling tendencies are kind of wishing-well for someone we like. The way our parents control us when we do foolish things. What resonated with me regarding drinking thing was I actually never felt this way with anyone else even if they also drank more then I. It was something in the overall behavior of this woman that made me feel that she could potentially develop a drinking problem given right circumstances. I am not implying anything here, just sharing my experience with someone else. Food for thought.
M,
How did I know this was coming….
“My point is often these controlling tendencies are kind of wishing-well for someone we like. The way our parents control us when we do foolish things.”
Your Devil’s advocate argument turned projection is becoming transparent. And in my opinion, condescending.
M,
Why are you defending this weirdo?
NC is about taking distance from someone who is hurting you, not a strategy to punish or manipulate him/her into behaving a certain way.
As for the wine thing, how do you know there was something preceding it? Did Lilly mention that she drunk herself to stupidity on previous occasions when she went out with him? Why can´t you believe that his behavior was just that – strange?
I´m sure there are men and women who have the best intentions when they tell their date not to drink or smoke, but there are also loads of morons who just want to control others and embark them in sick mind games. We´ve all encountered them, and the sad thing is that they will always rationalize their behavior saying that they are doing it for the best of intentions – something like covering up the turd with marmelade.
Hi M,
I must respectfully disagree with two points in your response to Lilly.
First of all, there is quite a significant difference between ‘no contact’ and the ‘act of disappearing’. I think you will find that this man took the latter, which is generally the behaviour of a coward. Lilly did nothing whatsoever to deserve NC. Genuine NC occurs when either we are dealing with a relationship with an arseclown (not gender specific) and go NC for our own wellbeing, or when there is an acknowledged end of the relationship and both parties know this and agree on NC as beneficial to everyone. Disappearing is really quite different to NC, and this is precisely what he has done.
My second point refers to your comment “often these controlling tendencies are kind of wishing-well for someone we like.” Errr – no, just no. No-one has the right to control what another does – in any situation – and there is absolutely no justification for it. As someone who has also dated a control freak EUM, it makes me quite cross that we are looking for reasons to excuse this behaviour. There is no excuse. It often stems from someone who thinks they know everything, that they are superior, and everything they do is the right way, and everything someone else does is the wrong way, and they seek to modify someone else’s behaviour. We are our own people, we can have a glass of wine or peel potatoes how we wish. I am living my own life, not being advised how to do so by someone else.
Nel
And just to add to this, it really gets my goat up when people you don’t even know you think they have the right to tell you how to do things. Two instances stand out.
I remember at uni once, I parked in a carpark that didn’t have delineated spots – so no line markings. It was a dirt carpark but always got quite busy because it didn’t cost to park there. One lady one morning (this is years ago) thought she had a right to tell me I hadn’t parked close enough to the car next to me. People pleaser at the time, I moved my car closer but I felt a bit sad about it all day. I really should have said, mind your own business, I can leave as much space as I want between the car next to me and mine.
The second instance was when I was walking my dog on a mountain near where I live. She’s a border collie and I walk her off the lead. A man once said to me quite rudely ‘there are kangaroos up there so I suggest you put your dog on your lead’. Well, yes, thank you, I can see those kangaroos for myself with my very own eyes. Instead, I said ‘thank you’ politely – but I really should have just said ‘I’ll look after my dog and me, thanks, and you just look after yourself.’
However well-meaning these comments might have been, the person really has no right to tell another what to do. If everyone happily went about on their own business without obstructing others’, the world would be a much nicer and kinder place.
Sorry – two cents ramble.
This so reminds me of the first graders I teach. Six year olds LOVE to point out what everyone else is doing wrong. We’re constantly talking to the kids about what they need to tell the teacher about(bullying, dangerous behavior) and what they don’t…and the importance of focusing on their OWN work and behavior. When I see an adult giving unnecessary, unasked-for advice to another adult, I just think, “Uh huh, there goes another tall six year old.”
M,
Sorry, I don’t agree at all.
It doesn’t sound like she had been drinking, and even if she had, he’s not her father. This behavior was out-of-line.
“Controlling tendencies are kind of wishing-well for someone we like”
Can see why she is no longer with you.
M, thank you for your comments. (1) he didn’t apply NC to me. He disappeared on me and there is a difference. Nat has a post on this, see ‘Is There A Difference Between Disappearing and No Contact?’ (2) I mentioned the wine incident as an example of his overall controlling attitude. He also didn’t want me to drink black tea, eat sugar, wear high heels, wear certain items of jewellery,or perfume, also he asked me not to use certain words such as ‘um’, ‘you know’ ‘actually’ or ‘literally’ as they annoyed him and there’s more. I’m not sure you could describe this as him wishing well for me. I suppose you could stretch it and say he was being caring about me not drinking alcohol and black tea for health reasons and perhaps as he himself said if I stopped using filler words my communication would improve, but I’m not buying the caring thing. He didn’t sound particularly caring more like overbearing. Actually (lol) thinking about this has made me realize just how controlling he was. I think I’ve had a lucky escape!
Oh Good Lord, when people are trying to “improve” you right off that bat, that’s a huge red flag. There’s an enormous difference between someone who loves you and has committed to you for many years through thick and thin, who wants you to be your best, and who therefore has earned the right to do some loving and gentle “correction” when necessary – and some control freak who starts in on “improving” you after one date. Monstrous, monstrous red flag. Lilly, please don’t ever fall for this again, no matter how professional or intellectual the guy seems.
I had the same thing happen with the ex but of course didn’t see it at the time. The first morning after we had slept together, he said casually “have you ever thought of wearing your hair up? You have such a lovely neck.” Gee, I thought, it’s a compliment. Then later that morning,”you know your glasses aren’t very attractive.” OMG, he was already finding fault with my appearance after one date. Why? Because he’s a superficial guy and that is what’s important to him – style over substance.
I believe men like this see women as extensions of themselves, and I think it’s particularly true of highly successful men. Sort of the trophy wife syndrome. They think they deserve someone without “faults” and this is how they pump up their ego.
Love = wanting someone to be their best for their own happiness and dignity.
Narcissism = wanting someone to be their best so they reflect ME properly.
Lily- did WE date the same guy? OMG! I got similar antics pulled on me- I’d come home at lunch & if I was in a silly mood because I was having a good day & said um or mumbled he’d say I was slurring my words & accuse me of drinking. But I should have seen the flag when barely 6 months into our disastrous 2 years (trust me, I’m horrified I spent this time) he started attacking my clothing choices- saying my dresses were too revealing, he can see up/down my dress it’s ‘too sexy’ I even took a picture of me & sent it to a friend to get her opinion! The response was a strong NO! And I knew it too! It was his insecurity- hell I wore ‘sexier clothes’ when we started dating! Over the 2 years I lost myself! I gained a ton of weight because if I wasn’t hungry we’d get in a fight because we ‘had to eat together’ eff’d up right? My clothing choices since I got bigger got more reserved so I basically was as unattractive as possible which I knew was wrong -it’s not all about looks but it was to satisfy him that no man would look at me or want to converse with me- and the minute I got upset & wanted to improve myself & stand up for myself by going to the gym – he dumped me- when my confidence was at its lowest. Douche bag. Still trying to forgive myself – that’s where I’m at.
Lilly,
He sounds like a complete ass! This man has friends???
M, hate tell you this but this chick is an alcoholic. There is a such thing as a controlled addict. My father is one, my stepfather is another. Meaning they kept a job and paid bills all while drinking a case of beer a day or smoking pot daily. It was only all their relationships that were ruined. Someone who has to have a drink that often has a problem. And I don’t know where you live, but in most places marijuana is illegal. I kind of like to hang out with people who follow the law.
Ahhhhhh, Natalie, thank you so much for writing this article. I really needed it. It’s a great reminder, and there are some really nice golden nuggets in there for me that I understand so much better at this point in my journey.
Thank you for all YOU do, <3
Here’s one for the feedback pool:
EU guy married for 30 years–divorced for 10. Two adult sons close family, on friendly good terms with ex. Had had two LTR with women since divorce.
But…has daily if not multiple daily phone calls with ex-she mainly calls him and is also in a relationship.
Family get togethers always include the ex. They exchange Xmas, birthday, mother and father’s day cards, gifts.
He recently moved to another nearby town in a different state and uses exes address for car tag and insurance purposes.
When he moves again plans to give ex the bed he has (because is goes with the bed room suite that she kept)and he plans to get the chair that she has had since divorce.
He claims there is no emotional attachment to ex and professes that they are friends only,id open about their relationship and gives her the holiday gifts cards to be respectful and not look empty handed when the rest of the family exchanges gifts.
When I questioned this very weird-to-me behavior the response I got was: You are the only one that thinks that this is weird and all my other Gfs accepted it.
He has stated that he wants to remarry someday and when I asked him when/if he does remarry if he would take his new wife to pick out the exes gifts with him or if he would just continue to do that himself? And how did he think that the new wife would feel about all the ongoing entanglement with the ex? He thought that she would just be understanding as ever.
Am I the only one that thinks that this is just whacked? I applaud the friendly exes but come on!!!
Thoughts???
Been there,judging by him having been married for 30y, and divorced 10, we are not talking about young people anymore. I think it is natural to have a strong family bond to his former spouse after so many years, and I believe there is no “romantic” attachment, more like relatives, you know? Like a sister or something. In my opinion, it would be difficult to expect a guy who does not have as much life left to live(relative to life expectancy) to give up his kinship behaviors toward the old lady who he knows all his life in favor of another old lady he does not know for as long and who may not be there to talk to him a few months from now versus somebody he knows is there and is part of his family (married or not). Yeah, very comforting for him, according to BR we labeled him EU. I think in this case it has to be put in perspective of what you can offer him for the remainder of his life. In this case it is also up to you if you want to be part of his family or not. He is not hiding anything from you, I find it harmless but understand you would like more of him only to yourself. Some people have more communal tendencies then others, I guess you are not very compatible in this way. If he is good to you in every other way, perhaps you can avoid judging and use comments like “if he would take his new wife to pick out the exes gifts with him”, isn’t it passive-aggressive as we are learning here? In the end the decision is yours.
Hugs.
M
I have a little sympathy with what you say. My mum and dad have been apart now for more than 35 years. They live on the other side of the world from one another. Yet when they do meet there is a kind of bond and understanding. They met as teenagers and had two children together and are a part of each other’s youth. My step mother doesn’t get it. Doesn’t like it. But there it is, none the less.
Unless someone has treated you badly or been an AC I don’t see why the mother of your children shouldn’t be a part of your life. Why should he pretend to have no past?
Mymble,
I agree. Better for everyone involved, as long as it is not excessive.
I think this other situation is extreme: Daily calls to ex, present buying, holidays together, card exchanges etc…. This is very difficult for the partner, when the ex is ALWAYS present. I had been in something similar and it was very confusing and painful. He was always at her disposal, to the point of being ridiculous, yet routinely complained how neglectful she had been in the marriage.
This was a long time back, but was the biggest mind-fuck I have ever dealt with.
Been There,
Weird, weird, weird!!!!
I can so relate! The ex spent all the holidays with the ex, and still did family outings when the kids came home from college. He made repairs on her house, did her taxes and the list goes on.
The situation was absolutely ridiculous! He felt a need to care and support her – she threatened to quit her job, when she found out about us, so he considered digging into his 401K hahahaha – but he didn’t want her back. This crazy behavior kept other relationships at bay, but also kept the ex wife on a string – Mind you, she had a boyfriend.
I have to look back with complete disbelief that I ever gave this goof
a minute of my time.
Move on and don’t look back. This is a no-win!
Also, if they others accepted it, then where are they!!!!!!
He has not truly split from her, respectful to give gifts to an ex? BS! Congrats on recognizing a major red flag. I too am friends with my ex husband, we talk on the phone, email once in a while but there’s no gift giving, showing up at family stuff, etc.
I certainly do not understand the dynamics there but yes, disrespectful to his new partner and potential wife (I would not be understanding as he deluded has put it) especially the daily communication! Stick with your instinct on this one and no you are not whacked. His other girlfriends may have thought nothing of it like he mentioned so why are they no longer around/are now exes. Clearly they didn’t accept what was going on. I am just wondering what your association to this man?
Been there,
I agree with those who’ve already responded. It helps if people decide what level of ‘ex-togetherness’ they’re comfortable with, and express that. I think most people would be comfortable with a certain level of contact now and then if something happens with one of their children or one of the kids is getting married or whatever. And, obviously, less contact is expected when the children are over 13, over 16, over 18, and then over 21 — there’s simply less for parents to handle on a daily basis when offspring are living their own lives.
But holidays together? Financial entanglements that don’t involve the children? Making visits elsewhere ‘as a family’, or going on vacations? Most people would say no. That’s not okay. I know I would.
Children too, as they mature, need to rein in their control issues for ‘happy family scenarios’ where they expect their parents to drop everything and come together for them frequently. After 16 and certainly 18, they’re too old to act like that. Their family isn’t together anymore, full stop. They need to take into consideration more than just their own feelings and desires for attention — perhaps the mom has a new husband, or even a new child, perhaps the dad has just moved in with his new partner, maybe not, but frankly everyone has got on with their lives. Just as they themselves expect their boyfriend/girlfriend they met in college to be accepted into the fold, they need to accept their parents’ new life situations and behave more graciously about it than they would have at age 10 or 6.
Now if it’s not the offspring but the ex husband or wife who’s showing this level of attachment or dependency to the former marriage, it’s more than a reg flag, it’s very probably flushable.
Mine is always telling me that I am the first with things that we do. This man, who has slept with everyone in this town, will sit there and tell me that I’m the first to do things sexually. Really? I am as down as I have ever been. Maybe reading all these stories are showing me the reality that I don’t want to admit. He called me the other night at 10:00 and I drove over to his house. Now I will go a couple of weeks where he will ignore me???because he tells me that he feels guilty after he sleeps with me. I am trying to live my life and not think about him or his antics, but at this moment, I’m really down.
It may be true that no one stated that a persons behavior was a problem before, but that is just because others allowed them to get away with it. Found out much later that the at-work AC screwed around on, cheated on MANY women before betraying yours truly yet for years his behavior was common knowledge, for close to TWO decades, yet a well kept secret. It’s as though he was perceived as some special being allowed to act this way, even by women he hurt repeatedly. A good deal of the weird hot/cold behavior,friction, badmouthing, defensiveness, passive aggressive BS on his part is, I assume, because I DID call him on his behavior and in no uncertain terms.
Oh, I remember being taken on this ride with the ex. Instead of owning his own propensity for inconsideration and blatant lack of care, he blamed standing me up on the fact that he never had dated anyone who cared.
You know, it’s so funny, the people with the most flaws are the ones most eager to invest fierce fidelity to a flawless image. That man was fucked up. He didn’t want anyone to know. We all knew, and us fallback girls didn’t mind so much as it was an easy escape to hide behind.
On another note: UPDATE.
Well, at the moment I’m sitting on an empty floor (still need to furnish this apartment). So tired from exhaustion I feel I might puke. But…
I am caught up in school. My unfurnished digs came in handy. I flattened out my moving boxes, spread them over the carpet, and got busy on lagging art projects. I made work I am real proud of (got good grades too which is nice); working in this way opened up a realization as to a niche area in the arts I would like to tap into.
I’m truckin’ along with piano. The ear can be trained. I’m a testament to that. It’s all gettihg to a very exciting place with this elective. I am now playing pieces and enjoying the hell out of it.
I have a week holiday from school, and I can’t wait to get some furnishings and get my little place all cozy 😉
Lilly, girl.
Honey, I love ya, but WTF? I remember hearing about this guy before and there were more red flags than a Chinese airport THEN, let alone than from what you just wrote. Ummm, yeah….the guy has some major hang-ups. Control being one of them. Let’s PRAY that he went NC on you, as M so graciously suggested. Thank the Lord above that he’s not calling you! You’re FREE of one hell of a headache, and probably much worse!!!!
I echo what most of the other commenters (especially Selkie and Simple Pleasures) posted to you. We love you, honey. Don’t go barking up that tree. It’s hollow. Love and care shouldn’t hurt. And if he was really trying to show his “care” for you regarding the one (!!!) glass of wine, he would have done so respectfully, and from a peer-to-peer perspective (last I checked you were a grown-ass woman, right?) and not placed himself in some twisted parent-child relationship with you. What’s THAT about? Even after ten, twenty years there’s something seriously OFF about that, let alone after a MONTH??? Leave that man to himself.
Hopefully you didn’t freeze your ass off over here in the US, girl. It would be a pity if you had to deal with gale-force winds and sleet on TOP of dealing with some douche.
Much love as always, and I’ll be back…
Revs
Rev,
I’m almost completely hopeless I know (lol) but he hasn’t gone NC, I have! I received an email this morning (mentioned above) that I quickly responded to and have now discarded. I will not backtrack, not this time. M’s post was interesting (!) but actually did me a favour as it made me remember all the other things he was trying to change about me, not just drinking the odd glass of wine. I really have had a lucky escape. As for freezing my ass off I was in sunny Florida so escaped the cold. I hope it’s improving and love you right back Rev, xxx.
Lilly,
I was being facetious with calling it “NC”. He definitely pulled a Houdini. Or maybe we should call it a Cowardly Lion? Though that’s probably not fair, because the Cowardly Lion eventually found “the nerve” while these assclowns never do.
Read Wiser’s comment above again and again. It’s so spot on that I want to stand up and cheer! There’s the difference right there between respectful care that carries dignity with it and straight up control.
Lilly, you’re not even near hopeless. Just chalk this one up to experience and move on with what you learned. And glad to hear you were in sunny Florida. I’m in sunny Cali, so I can’t complain at all either…..Love ya, honey.
Apparently I am “the only one with a problem” for not wanting to have anal sex with my ex partner… The subtle manipulation and guilt trips about this issue that i put up with astonish me. My god its incredible how much better I feel breaking up with him 2 months down the track! Just wish I did it earlier.
I was asked to do this on our first weekend together. I firmly declined and that was that. He also asked this of the next woman and implied that I had let him do this so she would comply.
More info on the guy with the friendly ex relationship…
He had an affair or two during the 30 yr marriage but was not ultimately the reason for the divorce. I am told she was an ice queen relationally and he went to therapy and she was not interested and felt nothing for him. He traveled M-Thur for work and shortly after his separation got involved in a 5 year relationship with a younger woman where he would spend his weekends wherever she was , as she was a student then and later got jobs in various locations and they lived together. Since he traveled he just would weekend wherever she was. When that relationship ended he based himself back “home” in his condo that he maintained after the divorce.
His sons were in their mid-twenties and grandkids too and by his own admission kinda just did what he wanted and somewhat abandoned his family during this 5 year I’m-in-my-early-50’s-gonna-do-what-I-want phase.
He later gets involved with another woman closer to his age who was a shopaholic and lived with for two years (but he was not her sugar daddy) whom according to him everyone liked and was friendly with the ex and on an email exchange friendly basis with—except HE didn’t really like her and she was on the rebound from a bad marriage herself. That relationship ended some time ago.
Enter me– 14 years his junior–still have two older teenagers at home, also have been divorced 11 years.
I’m only into this relationship for a couple months and the red flags are waving—The affairs in his prior marriage are definitely one but he is open about it. I thought I would find out how much growth he has learned from all that counseling he had and the guilt he has expressed of the infidelity and how he really hung in there with his marriage that according to him was ill-suited from the beginning. All he can tell me is that he is a peace with it all and feels forgiven.
I don’t need to have all the details of all his past but am more interested in the growth he has made since all that.
He is definitely an emotional relational avoider, lacks empathy but is also a sensitive guy. He just doesn’t like having to answer or offer much input into deeper issues. Refers to subjects as drama and/or confrontational, thinks that I am mistrusting when I am just asking values, character based questions as anyone would in the discovery phase. Just wants to be happy clappy. Yes he has been open about the relationship with the ex but due to my questioning he has picked up on the fact that I think it is an excessive ongoing entanglement. I applaud the friendly post divorce relationship but am not comfortable with it at all. In some ways I feel like I am the other woman and can see the writing on the wall down the road. As time has gone on I am finding out of more entanglement that seems to me should have long been subsided—10 years post divorce.
When I asked him how he was keeping the car tags registered in another state and whose address he was using–he told me he didn’t know—REALLY???
Then he drip fed me the truth that he was using the exes address for convenience—pissed me off on two fronts. 1) that he was deceptive and 2) one more entanglement with the ex. Did it ever occur to him to just get a PO Box? Of course I am being confrontational and was looking for a fight. Has blame shifted his deception on me to avoid what my reaction would have been.–another flag.
I told him that I thought it was a boundary thing with his ex and any marriage counselor or therapist would agree. So he contacts his ex GFs and asked their opinion of which he already knew what they would say. I am being immature about this whole thing according to him and just looking for drama. He asked me what would be okay for me in his involvement with his ex. I told him that I am not his counselor and that I will not demand or tell him what to do and that the status quo just would not work for me that I understand and respect the ex thing but for me …don’t think so.
There are other observations as well.He seems to move fast and quick in relationships including ours.
I am seeing a pattern of him shutting down or avoiding, then acting like nothing is wrong and changes subjects to lighter matters with no closure or conversation completion.
We have ended things once kinda vaguely followed by his penchant for texting about silly trivial stuff and all about him. He got really childish and immature and went for low blows during an ending-of-the-relationship exchange. Another flag–doesn’t fight fair, which was our first real argument. Then another with more finality, a conversation with much more civility and mutually decided that we should not move forward with the relationship.
But the guy texts me the next day wanting me to look at a house that he is interested in(There was some discussion of perhaps a future together). I asked him why since we have decided to not move forward, who cares what I think of any house he is thinking of buying?
Oh!! he also asked me after the final breakup if I was interested in his being my lover since we were so compatible in that room. I told him I was insulted.
I decided I needed NC and told him so (especially the texting) but the guy is still texting me daily I think to test the waters.I have not responded and after I explicitly told him I wanted NC and no texting especially, is crossing a boundary. I am learning more about this guy as the relationship unraveled than I did in our couple of months together.
I think the guy is lonely and wanting companionship at any cost. Wants me to engage. Also think that he still carries around some guilt about how he behaved during/after his divorce. I am nice arm candy for him but we are both pretty down to earth. He is not flashy. But I do “it” for him, I know that.
He doesn’t really do “it’ for me, bottom line. And there is no real jack to even hammer. And he farts…often.
And now you know, the rest of the story.
Been,
What is stopping you from blocking or changing your number? You need to shut this down.
This asshole does not have guilt about anything, remember his response with the cheating – there are many similarities to my ex, including being an avid cheater in his marriage. If someone feels guilty they do not continue to repeat the same behavior.
I think you are right Allison. Cheaters carry a harem and that is what his ex wife is as well as the ex’s he contacted to verify her behavior.
Have to say M you ceratinly seem to try to put a spin and twist towards the EUM/AC side whenever you comment lately, are you on here to learn or to try and manipulate? or perhaps these comments hit a nerve? Must say all your last few posts makes me feel very uncomfortable and like I am back talking with my ex. I think if you are genuine you need to take a step back and re-read all of BR’s material. Your comments feel not upbuilding or encouraging but one sided heading towards completley biased. I Love hearing all comments when they are not twisted and spun into one direction…just my thoughts…. Lilly (hugs) you tried and it went wrong.. I have a feeling next time you will listen to your gut..hang in there your learning and I know you will be fine x
on the other side, I did not intend to make you uncomfortable or put a spin on EUM/AC side, although by speaking in favor of the guy you complained about is not very supportive, I understand. I am here to learn of course, hopefully my comments also give some insight into mind of someone we call EU/AC here, although Nataly have written plenty. ‘One sided’ means taking a side. It’s hard to judge situation based on a few paragraphs on a blog comments from people we don’t know. Based on your first post your only complaint was he talks to his ex-wife a lot. I felt that an old guy with children, grand children, and all of his life experiences behind him is not likely be as emotionally available (in BR sense) to a person he knows only few months. I just felt he was actually trying to make you part of his life by offering to introduce to people in it. Reading many posts here I find that many women suffered from real abuse. But some comments make me think: ah, that’s not such a big deal. So you have a sequence in mind in which order you should be meeting his family members, but perhaps he is not aware on this(=EU/AC)
I just feel that some people would be a lot happier if they would accept each other with their insecurities and baggage which possibly cannot be reclaimed. Not that you dumped his ass, it only reinforces his belief that he is better off sticking with people he already knows for many years. You will meet someone else, of course, who will be more compatible. Some people are lucky to have met their soul mate and are aging together comfortably. Others carry their scars and it takes some understanding from both sides to forge something that can last. I am definitely here to learn. Some of it will be of benefit, some I don’t agree with yet.
Best,
M
I agree – I remember M.s comment to me: you asked for it. I was insulted!
Oh help, now that I read about Lilly´s controlling beau I remembered a boyfriend I had in my 20s who didn´t want me to use jewelry at all and talk un-ladylike (whatever that means), among other things. And I did as he wanted! I just stored my lovely rings and earrings and everything for years and had my self esteem take a crash once he decided he wanted to be free to date others. How terrible, I must´ve been a born doormat. I wish we had BR back then!
And really, I can´t imagine what´s wrong with black tea and sugar? I looove black tea with sugar.
P.S. on guy with Ex entanglement…
Oldest son is in the middle of a nasty divorce–visitation with his adolescent girls–granddaughters to my guy- goes through the ex wife because he, son, could not pass a drug test accusation.
So Grandpa of the universe fields venting issues from the ex about all this, hence part of the phone calls with the ex. And goes to visit the girls every other weekend like his son does.
The son now has a girlfriend much younger, who comes with him to see the girls as the son has moved across state in part because of the turbulent divorce situation.
Like father like son in getting involved with a younger woman way way too soon in the midst of a divorce. The girlfriend has not met the girls or visits with them but she tags along when the son visits his daughters. Guess where she stays while the son visits his daughters? At my guys house. Weird.
When I questioned this weird set-up, my guy does not think that he should say anything because of what HE did in his past. Doesn’t want to rock the boat with his relationship with his son.
My thought is that this is a perfect time to express to his son of what a mistake he is making and reflect on the mistakes that he has made and how it does damage to the family in the bigger picture. Good time to show growth and his own lessons learned. Get the divorce and take up with the girlfriend at a later stage in his divorce. Or shit, let the girlfriend stay home while he visits his daughters.
This arrangement has impeded our relationship or what was our relationship in part because I think the whole thing is inappropriate. He wanted me to meet this girlfriend of his sons and be all happy clappy about it–when I haven’t even met the son yet.
So he has played host to the sons girlfriend who I was not interested in meeting before I met the son. Two different weekends the girlfriend was staying at his house while the son visited with his daughters at the mothers house and because I would not participate in this escapade it impeded us doing anything.
He felt obligated to host the girlfriend and go along with this even though he has expressed that his son should wait and get the divorce first. Avoid a confrontation so that he can look like a great dad and wonderful grandfather. And be a wonderful ex husband.
I’ve already opted out and folded on this mind set family dynamic. But I am the only one and first that thinks this is odd.
Sentiments that the parents (he and his ex) are way too involved in their sons divorce are met with opposition.
Good riddens. No regrets.
Been,
Remember, you’re no longer a part of his life, but still sound deeply embedded.
Try to focus on you and what brought you to this man. You can change your behavior, but not his.
Lilly,
This guy has scary creepy written all over him. How he’s acted this early on is very bold and shows how entitled he feels. I’m glad he lives in a different country than you. His control may have looked like strong self esteem and might come off as attractive at first ( like an alpha male ), but it’s oppressive and comes from his own insecurity and probably harbored resentment. This guy is who he is, long before you came around. Controlling men are weak emotional vampires, not attractive. This also does not make your ex AC any better just because this most recent guy showed you a different less palatable flavor of AC. They come in all flavors and all have a slow poison to them. I too beat myself up after my foray with another assclown when I knew better, but after a little time I came to realize that it was just me trying out my training wheels. Wobbles happen. It’s okay. You know now, so heal the new scrapes and be thankful you recognized the unhealthy behaviors in him and also the things in you that need a little fine tuning. That is learning Lilly. Some lessons suck, but take something valuable from this. ((Big hugs to you))
Natalie, I just wanted to thank you again for your words. Sometimes they were the only thing that got me through.
xx
I did have a guy tell me that I was an aggressive kisser once and that he’d like for me to cut it out. And that was the first time I ever in my life heard that from anyone. I didn’t tell him that though, I just took his advice and held back. The three guys I dated before him thought I was a great kisser.
Hi Everyone-
My apologies but it’s been exactly 3 months since we broke up and today is tough. I am still trying to get the nasty words he said out of my head- during our big blowout he said no one would ever love me & I’d always be alone & I’m selfish & I went stone cold silence & he stomped off. Maybe it’s because that is my fear- he knew it & used it on me – but I felt utterly betrayed & gutted & I loved this person. He half-asses apologized later in emails & said “probably doesn’t matter much now but you’re the best person I met in my life & I’ll always love you”- but it’s the nasty things he said is all I can hear- maybe it’s because that’s what really did it for me- tons of red flags but THAT was it. I acknowledged I may have provoked him but it doesn’t excuse it. So yeah- maybe the relationship was over long before that and maybe there was resentment building but don’t blame it all on me.
Sorry- I had to get that out. And as far as my fear- so what if I’m alone? As long as I’m NOT with an emotionally corrupt & abusive tool like you, I’m likely to be much happier. It still hurts though.
Hi Brandy – same for me, 2 months NC (he initiated it) after huge blowout in airport departure lounge. He did all the talking and I sat there stunned and embarrassed.Of course he is always in the right and I provoked it. He did not say the nasty things your ex did but his words were extremely hurtful. There was resentment on my part because he does not take responsibility for his behaviour – apologises than in the next breath justifies it. Their was resentment on his part because I made life difficult for him after he chose to move on with someone else without telling me – he blamed me for the OW breaking up with him. He also made comments about my sister – such as she looked like a man. This was after looking at a photo of her post chemo where she was wearing a wig. His family issues caused a lot of problems but I never said anything like this about his ex or adult children. After this and the airport attack he is dead to me but yes, it still hurts.
Meerkat, Thanks for sharing your story. it helps to know others experience similar situations. How can one person say such horrible things and then at the end flip the switch and say you’re the best person ever? its just crap and lies and they know its over so they just anything – but honestly, it makes me doubt the entire 2 years and wonder if he ever did love me? I know I can’t torment myself over this but what a mind-f**k. I know everyone says be glad he’s gone but I feel so foolish for believing and trying with this guy when he was just using me.
Anyway, Meerkat, like me, let’s just celebrate the fact they are no longer in our lives and can no longer do anymore damage. Imagine if we spent MORE time with them? they won’t own up to their responsibilities or mistakes and they will inflict it on someone else. Just glad he broke up with me, since the last time it was me that did it and he harassed me. this way = no more harassment or anything. It’s just tough because you’ll go along and something will pop up in your mind. Like how we attended a retirement party for a co-worker of mine and he disappeared for about a half hour – I still don’t know why – other than his usual excuse “oh I don’t do well in large groups” – I think he was feeling guilty for being a douche when he saw me interacting with “real people” in a respectful way.
Hi Lilly,
I’m glad you made it home safely. I’m glad you’re going NC, and you ‘re going to address this pattern of engaging with older controlling men. Sure trying out new BR skills is a process, and we will all continue to learn from our mistakes, but there is NO shame in needing to do some more work on yourself. Isn’t that why most of us are here–to learn and grow by putting the focus on us and not some AC? Don’t be ashamed of needing to work on your behavior patterns. Working on your behavior patterns doesn’t translate into “something is wrong with you”–it’s called healing.
M I have not posted my story here : my story has never been really posted here, I was emotionally and physically abused by my only and last two guys, I don’t want any wanting sympathy, I realised that I was attracting these men and ended the last one a year ago and have not spoken to him since. I have a great life with amazing family an friends and better yet peace! My feeling is that this BR is a place to vent and share stories not a place to judge but to give kind, helpful advise but mostly comfort, this is a place I feel safe and at ease, sometimes our well meaning advice can be our own biased opinions, this is a place we all are encouraged to learn and grow and yeah mistakes are part of this process.
Well said, On the other side.
It is the one place where you can say how you feel without fear of being judged. It is a rare place where others offer extremely helpful advice.
I have often walked away after reading BR with my head held higher, my shoulders squarer, a smile on my face, and proud of who I am and what my worth is. And so very thankful for the ladies out there that have so generously taken the time to write their wisdom.
25 days NC today! I’m hanging in there…saw him drive by my work yesterday, sigh…I think he did it on purpose just because he knew it would set me back some emotionally…I’m just proud I didn’t break no contact…
Tanya Z,
That’s what I’m realizing…that a lot of mine and my ex’s conflict boils down to his lack of dealing with situations in a mature manner…I was dealing with someone who looked like an adult; who was educated, handsome, charming, helpful, strong, but was stuck emotionally (or yo-yo’d) as a six year old little boy…He was one of my soul mates though, that’s the hardest part…The more you love them, the more it hurts when they break your heart…
Lilly- I no longer have Internet so am doing this by phone. I agree with everything Selkie has said (haven’t read other replies to you yet). One thing to keep in mind that’s very important: You spent a month with him in his country, his home turf and you succeeded in being you. Do you see how big this is?? Maybe you started to slip but you caught yourself. You have every reason to be proud of yourself!!! You’re a wonderful example, Lilly, of not only growing from our past experiences but becoming more and more graceful in our new skins too (don’t know if that makes sense).
Noquay- am doing this by phone. This is in response to your comment about how people knew about the AC’s behavior & kept quiet. I noticed that this happens a lot. Just because these guys are so accomplished in certain areas, their mistreatment of women just gets obfuscated. It’s not necessarily on purpose always, maybe just a consequence of social conditioning.
What I mean is that we’re told “keep perspective”, that everybody has good and bad points so “he sure likes the girls [chuckle, chuckle] & he brings his A Game in the courtroom so you better bring yours.” See? The hurt he causes is buried & lost amongst all his other characteristics. It’s a form of obfuscation.
Rosie
I too reply by phone; try to minimize technology in mi casa because it is sacred space. Ironically, this dude hasn’t been on his “A game” for years, in fact, coming very close to being fired which, for a tenure-head is major. Not doing his job, many of us have had to take up the slack. We highly productive folk have been punished for his behavior, our presence/absence on campus much more scrutinized, leading to a crash in morale. The poor behavior goes waay beyond his personal life. Yep, we should all focus on our own damages, shortcomings but that becomes hard to do when I still have to deal with the hurt from his actions, PLUS fight like hell to keep an endangered program going that he also should be fighting for, having to work longer/harder/later leaving me little time to get out, find someone new, fix my situation, or put more time into fixing up my house so I can escape sooner. Still, he manages to get away with it. It’s gotten to a point where many of us feel like academic Cinderellas without the option of the prince.
Hi, I just read Natalie’s book and discovered this site. I wish I had known about it several years ago when I was deep into chaos with an EUM however I probably wouldn’t have been ready for these lessons yet anyway. Things come along when you are ready for them. I do sometimes regret that I gave up almost of a decade of my life to this, however, if it had been shorter, I probably wouldn’t have learned my lessons either. Apparently I needed to be hit over the head for a very, very long time. I sincerely wish that Relationships 101 was a yearly class starting when you’re beginning high school. Unfortunately, we learn our relationship templates from parents and pop culture. And if your parents weren’t around like mine weren’t — then it’s pop culture! Oh, you meet a guy and can’t stand him or his values or anything he says or does but he’s hot? Well, then stick around and banter with him for awhile, fall into bed, rinse, repeat, and eventually you two will realize you’re made for each other! Yeah, these are the lessons that are put out there about relationships in media. That or the controlling dude who comes at you like an F5 hurricane but has lots of “bad boy problems” or the glowering “mysterious” guy who can’t communicate but who is hiding “deep sensitivity.” You know the drill. So how was I supposed to know that a guy who treated me cavalierly and who could never seem to “make up his mind” about me and who repeatedly presented himself as single when we we were together, etc but who would go into paroxysms of tears and sob stories when I’d leave and make every promise in the world and blame it on his parents, blah blah, didn’t TRULY mean to change? I had no idea there were people who were incapable of it. Or who want it while you’re walking out the door, but at no other time. I REALLY wish I’d had some relationship mentor. On the plus side, though I’m middle-aged now and finding it difficult to meet a man my age who wants a woman his age (tho I still look awesome, imho) I at least have found my way out of the fog. I know many who haven’t. If it happens, it happens. If not, I am a content person anyway. I even thank my EUM for teaching me so many very valuable lessons!
Thanks Tinkerbell
After 3 years I finally ended things with him when it became clear that he had future faked (just been divorced, 2nd wife kicked him out), fast forwarded, was a flip flapper, mind changer, managed down my expectations, drama queen extraordinaire,everything was on his schedule, his terms and there were conditions,he also broke up with me several times AND with all of this he was a self-professed “Nice Guy” who I began to have MAJOR issues with when I started to realize Nothing was actually happening. Sadly, I stayed on far too long trying to get him to “SEE” himself and ME and get a return on my investment. It was a complete waste of time and I’m grossed out by the person I became to try to”save” the relationship save for the fact that I found BR and have learned SO much about my behavior (as you can tell from my new found terminology) and maybe why I was in the relationship in the first place after ignoring BLARING, HUGE, BILLOWING red flags in the beginning (yes, i thought i was the exception)
To make matters worse, he never left me alone after I ended it (e-mails,txts and some in person)I wouldn’t respond because I was waiting for a GRAND GESTURE not crumbs, so I still had the door open waiting for him to come back through.(i still wanted the future he had promised me)
I agreed to an in person meeting where he told me…he still loved me, he wanted another chance, he had changed, he was still planning his future with me in it etc. What he neglected to tell me was that he had already started a relationship with another woman and it took a while for it to come out. I described the horror of how this unfolded in another post so will spare the details here. Let’s just say…how many times can you feel like you’ve been punched in the stomach and then cast aside.
Um…he moved her in immediately(they lived next door to my apt/literally on the other side of my wall…yes, i could hear them) I was a complete wreck…they did not hold back on public displays, there was no consideration for my feelings by him or her.
They have since moved. I lost a lot personally because of it. It took a very damaging toll on my self-worth, esteem and self-respect to be forced to live that way when literally days before I thought he and I were on the road to back together.
Like others here, biggest regret? wasting now close to 4 years of my life over this complete and total AC…and that I thought I was smarter than to get duped and that I really didn’t see it coming
Blindsided. while he skipped off merrily into the future with his new bride to be (that use to be me)
On The Other Side- I haven’t posted in a few months & am doing this by phone. You said that you realized you were attracting these abusers but this is another way of taking responsibility for their behavior. It’s blaming the victim. Your “crime” is not having the knowledge & skill to recognize red flags. You’re now learning and, thus, will be able to step around these toads instead of picking them up, tbinking, “How cute!”
Hi all-
Just wanted to say I cancelled my email account he used to contact me- I doubt he would try again but it was just another mental link to me. He already said he deleted my number when he got so mad when I told him NC so the only thing he knows is where I work & live & I’m sure he’s too chickens**t to even try it. Cutting all ties to him. I don’t even shop at the grocery store down the street cause his friends work there.
I’ve had several men in past relationships use this line and it was because they didn’t want to work on their issues. It’s intended to make you doubt yourself, thinking do I really have the problem….no, you don’t, they do and they want to pin it on you so you leave them alone about it. I had one guy, who often got triggered tell me I’m the only one he has ever been angry around, therefore, I’m the problem, not him. Yeah, his wife and him lived seperate lives, hardly saw each other for 2 years. I knew it was his issue with a lot of unresolved trauma and anger, but the ‘nobody has ever made me feel angry’ comment sure made me doubt myself for a minute.
I’m observing myself experiencing another situation, the opposite of the ‘you’ve got a problem’ one. This one is the kind comments that I run with. This fellow that I have known for a long time is single again, we dated once, but it didn’t go anywhere, because he told me he had a part time girlfriend in another city which I didn’t like and even though there was great attraction (which he admitted), he said he didn’t want to take it further. I dropped it and withdrew my interest. Then he got engaged (not with the pt gf) and I didn’t see him for many years, until recently, as we frequent the same place. Although he is very attractive, I am not fawning over him as I did before, and it’s more a friendly encounter, I did tell him I’d be happy to get together for a lunch to chat etc, but he never followed up on it, so I assume he’s not interested in me beyond friendship. I accepted this, becasue the last thing I want is to go into the romance addiction of fantasizing about someone who is not interested in me. No way, been there, and got the heartaches! Yes, I’m romantically very very bored, but I am choosing that over fantasies! Anyways, here’s what has me a tiny bit hooked. He said a couple of kind things to me in the last month. When we first saw each other, I found out he ended his relationship and I told him I still haven’t found the one, he said that I really deserved to find the one. It really touched me, the way he said it and then today, we were in a meeting and I presented an idea that a women (one that I am sure is interested in him and I think he might be interested in her too, because I was surprised he joined this group, not like him) dismissed and gave credit to someone else for, he jumped in and subtly credited me for coming up with it in the first place which I thought was very sweet and I felt supported by him. Then he gave me a kiss on the cheek and her a handshake. Well, that may be becasue he recently met her and he’s known me longer. In fact, he gave me a kiss on the cheek earlier that day and another woman I was talking to seemed to read more into it than it was by the affectionate way he give me the kiss. Anyways, what’s hooked me is the kindness he extended in protecting me in the group. I can run with these kind words and have a feast with them. A little kindess goes a long way with me. I’m not used to kindness, I grew up in a very unkind home and I can start fantasizing something that isn’t there. Like, I inspire his need to protect me, therefore, he must like me. I know it was probably him being fair and that’s all! Yet, the romance addiction wants to rear it’s ugly head. But, it was interesting to observe, that the other fellow that she did credit with the idea (who I also dated and I think is interested in me) did not correct her, but the other guy did. Shows me their character. I need kindness in a man, but I am also very vulnerable to it and do not know if it’s interest in me or just plain kindness with no interest. Yet, I can fall for that so easily. I know that until interest is clearly shown, there is nothing to get excited about. I do not want to do romance addiction anymore, in any way, I think it is so damaging, yet a part of me misses it, like it gives hope, even if it is false hope. OK, I’m going to let it go now. Anyone else hooked on kind words?
Hey CC,
Sure I think we’ve all been hooked in one way or another. I do notice myself responding when a guy shows any interest in me, or says something kind to me. What’s different these days, is that instead of just drowning in the attention, I just sit back and notice. I say, “I notice I am really liking this attention right now, and I am flirting with him in response…Do I really like this guy, or am I just an attention addict?” And these days, 10 times out of 10, it’s because I just want a little bit of attention. Which is totally human! I live like a nun, but I have the libido of a fifteen-year-old boy (okay, maybe that’s an exaggeration). Sometimes, I REALLY just want to get laid. And who doesn’t like when people are nice to them?
But I guess I just try not to feed this intense craving for attention. Because that’s what it is–a craving. And I don’t want my life choices to be ruled by it. I guess I’m trying to raise my standards so I don’t end up with a child again! So if a guy gives me a compliment, that’s awesome, but I mean, I’m not going to worship him or anything. A lot of times guys just act that way to get laid! They all learned that in elementary school. By middle school they’ve mastered all levels of sweet talking… And girls are taught to adore it. We’re taught to be sweet and humble and modest, which sets us up to love any ole’ guy who tells us we’re pretty or funny or smart.
I have such a weakness for guys who laugh at my jokes. I really have to keep myself in check with that one. Also guys who tell me that they like my weirdness and awkwardness. And if they say they like how I don’t give a shit about fashion, in the past, my clothes were coming off immediately. I think my response from now on will be, “Yeah, so?”
I don’t mean to say your nice guy that you work with was being insincere, but maybe you should just assume that you’re awesome and anyone who tells you so is stating the obvious. Just a thought… =)
Hi Nat Attack,
Thanks for your response. I get what you are saying about the attention. If I find a man attractive and this man is very attractive and I get attention, it’s tough to not swoon. However, in this case, I am not flirting with him at all and I do feel he was being sincere, I can tell the difference now. However, I need to keep myself in check for sure…just becasue he was nice does not mean he is interested. I’ve been through that with him many years ago, so I know and my playing cool (not flirting or having any expectations with him) was authentic until now, so I just need to keep it that way, unless he shows definate interest. I like what you also said about, ask yourself, do you like the guy. In the past, I did not like his ways, having a part time gf out of state while persuing me, I would not go along with it. Today, I don’t know if he has changed, but I do know I appreciated his support.
The red flag that popped out to me is when you said he had a pt gf. I know it was awhile back, but do you really think he’s changed his ways??? I don’t know, that would make me cautious. My ex was extremely charming at first. Said all the right things. I remember he even commented on my new hairdo on our first date. I mean really, how many men, especially straight men would notice that?!?!
Wendy,
Yes, I most certainly remembered the pt gf, but there was no interest towards me for long enough even before he got engaged that I just dismissed him. I doubt there is any interest now too, so I will probably never have to go there, but he has been sweet to me in a very minimal way, and I guess I am pretty starved these days, no dates, so, yeah, I jumped all over it.
you sure he’s straight??
CC,
LOL! You know, sometimes I wondered in the relationship if he was straight…Just some signs that would make me wonder…Oh course he would deny any of my questions about him being attracted to men…
My last boyfriend would call me the worst names you can call a woman and then when I didn’t laugh, accuse me of being over sensitive and having no sense of humour.
One day I got angry and asked him if he ever called his ex these names, he said ‘no, it was different with her and my other exes.’ Cue months of insecurity and depression, as I battled with the idea that I had somehow ’caused’ this outrageous behaviour due to some hideous personality flaw within myself. I started questioning myself, ‘am I a sl*t? I don’t sleep around, I’m faithful to him, but if my own boyfriend thinks so then may be I am???.etc, etc
It was only after walking away from the relationship, focusing on myself, doing daily meditation and seeing a counsellor that I realised it was just another control tactic, to make me think the problem was with me. I see the truth now – he got a kick out of calling me a wh*re and a sl*g for no reason because he knew it hurt me and confused me.
But in hindsight that relationship was a gift. I’ve been single for 14 months, I have travelled all over Asia and had a fabulous time. It’s a massive cliché but I’ve learnt to love myself, mainly through daily meditation (I thought it was a load of b***cks at first but it’s amazing for stopping repetitive negative thoughts,it’s changed my life)
The thought of being married to that guy sends a cold shiver down my spine. I know I’m lucky, I dodged a bullet and I remind myself of that everyday. Being single is not the worst thing in the world. At first it’s scary and lonely but honestly once you love yourself (sorry I know it’s clichéd) you genuinely don’t feel the loneliness or sadness any more.
Ellabee,
Did you travel on your own? I’m thinking of doing that in the fall to South East Asia. I’m nervous about going on my own…any tips.
CC, A, Wiser, Rosie, Bradd, on the other side, Brandy, LovefromNel,
I’ve just read all of your comments and have taken each on board. Thank you so much. I’ve thrown myself back into my PhD and haven’t had a moment to think. It’s been a week since my return and I’m glad to be home and glad to be away from his toxicity. I haven’t heard from him since telling him we’re not compatible and I’m glad but still a little baffled and hurt. I will learn from this mistake and view it as just a wobble (thanks Selkie). I think I was attracted to him because he reminded me of the exAC, they had similar traits including aloofness and coldness. Time for me to break that habit which I will thanks to Natalie and her amazing readers, hugs to all. I am forever grateful and promise to pay this forward when I reach my goal. Tink, I’ve been reading your comments on the next post and I hope he contacts you soon. I’m sure he will.
cc, I owe you an apology. I was going to write a reply to one of yr posts a few mths bk (I’d already written one but cyberspace ate it) but then disappeared. I’m so sorry. You must have felt terribly let down as my reply (that didnt arrive) waa re something u said ud been struggling with. ive been really ill so which is why I disappeared. after a while I just didnt have the energy to search for the post & rewrite my reply. can you forgive me?
lilly, i suspect that the payoff with controlling men is that we get to avoid taking responsibility for ourselves, b.c hey, mr controlling will take care of everything. it’s like we don’t have to grow up with them & can instead remain a child emotionally. mull this over & see if it fits. ps glad u got rid of him. also u r right. next phase of learning 4 u is to trust yr instincts & act on them sooner. this will bolster instead of eroding yr self esteem. xxx
teach! It is so great to hear from you. You’re 100% spot on;it fits perfectly. No escaping reality now.I have to stop trying to escape and take care of myself. Hope you are going well, xxx.
cc, I think you’ve earned kind guys respect re how uv handled yrself over the years. hence, why he’s so kind & protective of u in the grp now. u wouldn’t want him to b unkind or cold shoulderish I imagine? so he’s doing his best. he prolly senses u MIGHT still have an attraction. protect yourself. if so, keep under wraps. there are reasons he didn’t choose u all those yrs ago & the likely may still stand (i was in reverse abt this w someone but I honesty admitted to them yrs later core reason I rejected them b4 we tried again – this failed btw for other red flags of his). keep yr balance & don’t let him knock u off it. x