Phil asks: I suspect that I am probably one of your Mr Unavailables and you’d probably even call me an ‘assclown’ but I thought I would email you because whilst I understand why you say the things that you do about men like me, I still think that women get an easy ride.
Take my ex for instance – well I call her my ex but she thinks we’re still together. Natalie, I have TOLD her that this isn’t going to happen. I have said I don’t want a relationship. I have said that we will never go beyond something very casual and that I don’t want to mislead her. She won’t leave me alone! She’s always there–she’s calling me, emailing me, texting me, whatever and I admit that because I have told her what the score is, I have been sleeping with her. Does that make me an assclown?
In my defence, she just won’t stop pushing herself on me and whilst I recognise that I could just say no, it’s almost not worth the earache.
I’m 34, separated for the past year, and to be honest, I am barely out of my marriage and I don’t see myself wanting to be tied down with someone for a while.
So tell me, what should I do because I have told her, I have hinted, and I know that I haven’t treated her very well, and she’s still there? Also, does this make me an ‘assclown’?
Phil, I hear your ‘plight’ but I don’t feel sympathetic to you because you’re portraying yourself like this poor, weak guy that just can’t get that big woman to leave him alone. Have you really tried everything?
I tell you why I ask: You don’t have to continue engaging. Unless she’s a stalker (and you’d find out pretty quickly) even the most resilient of Fallback Girls don’t keep pushing at a closed door.
You are still having sex with her and I don’t know what type of feeble explaining you have done, but you’re confusing the issue by continuing to get a shag knowing damn well that she wants more from you.
You say one thing and then your willy says another…
You might be thinking, ‘Oh it’s just sex’, but she may not see it that way and at the end of the day, why are you having sex with her if you 1) don’t want to be with her and 2) know that she wants more from you?
Aren’t you just being a lazy assclown?
You could get sex elsewhere but you choose to do it with the girl who won’t leave you alone?
It sounds like you have things twisted and I don’t think that you should continue absolving yourself of responsibility for the fact that she is still there.
Walk away. If you stick to your guns and stop acting like a weak assclown that only thinks with his penis, eventually she will get the message because the door will be closed hence the hope has been removed.
You need to decide if you are separated living in limbo, or someone who actually intends on getting a divorce, because as long as you live in limbo and get involved with women, you will continue to send out mixed signals. There’s no point in playing the separated card after the horse has bolted and become attached; if you’re that devastated by your breakup and still healing, you shouldn’t be going around screwing with women’s heads!
And by the way, I am not giving her or other women an easy ride but when you don’t like a situation, just like I say to them, you have to be the one to be responsible for taking action instead of blaming the other person and avoiding responsibility. Good luck!
Your thoughts? Is he an assclown?
If you want to understand men like this and avoid them like the plague, check out my new ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.
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of course …………. 🙂
Grow some balls – no wait – you are the victim, right?
You are not divorced – you are waiting on your ex to start divorce proceedings and you are waiting on this to “leave” you alone.
Yup, like I said VICTIM. 🙂
Should this woman he’s seeing “grow a pair” and dump him? Absolutely. But if both parties are equally responsible for their actions, and he KNOWS that she’s misinterpreting his signals (whether deliberately or not) then he has to SEND DIFFERENT SIGNALS. And by signals I mean: don’t continue to have sex with her.
It’s so simple. Yet so hard (yes, that was a pun because obviously it’s harder to think when other things are…well, hard). But not an excuse.
Screw someone once – Ok. Twice – yeah, why not, you stayed for breakfast! But anymore then that and on a regular basis…. who are you kidding?
Mate, you are leading her on. I’m sorry, but no matter how much women like to think they can screw someone on a regular basis without developing feelings – I don’t think they can. Emotions are a natural progression in women- sex releases dopamine and oxytocin – making them want to be close to you. Hence, if she’s saying she’s interested and you’re not listening… then I think you’re being a pr*ck.
Take a bit of responsibility for the situation – she may not be strong enough too – and stop leading women on.
Quit sleeping with her, duh!!! Yes, you are an assclown, if you don’t want to see her quit everything altogether, MAN UP!! Don’t date if you aren’t ready for anything serious and hire a hooker if you need some action, that is their job!!
“She won’t take a hint”? Guys like this kill me. Great response NML.
Phil, I think you already know the answer and if you had any integrity, you wouldn’t treat her that way. Maybe you ought to take a deep look at you and your issues to figure out why you would treat a woman that way…granted she isn’t being smart, but you shouldn’t think with your head (the big one)! You are the one who has to look at yourself in the mirror and be okay with yourself and the way you treat other people….somehow I think you do have integrity and a bit of a conscience or you wouldn’t be writing to NML on this blog…Kudos to you for looking at your behavior and knowing that it takes two people and you must be at least 50% to blame for your part!
Another thought…It takes TWO TO TANGO…so ladies and gentlemen, let’s all take responsibility for our part in these relationships!
Phil,
I don’t think you are an assclown.
I think you are an ASSHOLE.
(A lame victim one, to boot.)
Divorce your wife and get a life.
I wish my EUM would sit me down one night, look me deep into the eyes and say
“look, this isnt fair to you. Obviously you are more into me then i am into you and it is hurting you. I think we should break up. Let me drive you home. Even though I am as horny as hell and Ive got nothing else better to do at the moment, let me forgo the sex,drive you home anyway and forget this””
He doesn’t do that.
He knows he is making us miserable, but since we dont walk away on our own admid his horny protests, somehow it is ok to keep sleeping with us.
Listen up assclowns, you can stop feeling like king of the world for what you are doing because deep down we don’t like you much anymore even if we are still sleeping with you.
Lemme guess, Phil … this little bit of information …
“I have TOLD her that this isn’t going to happen. I have said I don’t want a relationship. I have said that we will never go beyond something very casual ” …
You told her this AFTER you had sex with her, right? How about you assclowns stop being assclowns by telling us this before you get some? Oh, wait … then you wouldn’t be an assclown then, would you?
If you dont want to get involved with a woman, stay out of her pants!
Actually, I agree with ALL of the comments above !
It was however, a sterling example of how an EUM plays victim and doesn’t take responsibility for leading someone on.
I have a feeling he just wanted everyone to say “oh poor you – aren’t you just so HONEST, you dear thing ! ”
I notice that he didn’t want to stop getting laid from THAT woman. He just figured because she put up with it, that was a green light.
Of course now, I also see NML’s showing her how she is keeping her own pain going with this EUM and why…
No contact works from both sides.
Clearly communicate an ending and why (and mean it this time, Phil) and make and keep a clean break.
If I didn’t care about someone or have an interest in having a relationship with them, I certainly wouldn’t sleep with them for the free sex. Wow that’s pretty disconnected of you, sounds like assclown behavior to me. You think you’re the good guy because you told her you didn’t want a relationship but yet you accept her emails, texts, etc and then sleep with her? Don’t you think you’re sending her mixed messages and leading her on?
My advice, figure out your separation situation with your wife. As for the woman you don’t care about but use for sex, do the honorable thing and walk away.
Phil, Yup, according to common usage here, you are an assclown.
I understand that you are used to sleeping with the woman that happens to be around. This is likely one reason for the separation – you are accepting what is available, instead of bonding with a partner and celebrating with her.
This isn’t high school, we don’t die of shame because we haven’t dated every girl in Physics class (or English, or whatever), or all the cheerleaders. In life the point is to find a life-mate, and then to be worthy of that mate’s attention.
Like women that are attracted to EUM’s, you aren’t just passing time, or enjoying casual sex. You are known by the company you keep. No honest woman will touch someone sitting on the fence like you are doing with this lady. The lady you are sleeping with needs different priorities. She thinks that giving a bit more, sleeping with you regularly, etc. will ‘win you over’. She may be studying Cosmo right now, hoping for that secret look or move that will win over your ‘commitment phobia’. Only it isn’t commitment that troubles you, is it?
One problem is respect. You don’t respect yourself for accepting attentions from this lady, and you don’t respect her for ignoring what you want and say. And that is the real crux here, you don’t respect yourself or her, and you continue down a disrespectful road. If you aren’t part of the solution, you are part of the problem. When you accept someone giving what they believe is their all (for her it is her sexual attentions, a problem with her self esteem but not your responsibility to deal with), you should be honored and respectful. That, or at least honestly and graciously decline.
Others will see your actions; you may be affecting family and friends for generations. She isn’t healing or finding a suitable mate, you aren’t progressing with your emotional healing from the separation in your marriage.
You are harming yourself, your wife, and this lady, by ‘letting things happen’. Don’t worry about the names people call you, don’t worry about labels. Worry about being disrespectful again and again and again. A little honor and discipline are in order now, please.
Ugh! Phil thy name is assclown. As others have said, she has responsibility as well, but having been in a similar situation (sans the almost ex-wife), I can tell you she’s holding out hope that nothing will turn to something…betting on potential, hoping against hope Phil will see she’s “The One.” Yep, sex can do that…
Man up Phil!
If my EUM had ever sat me down and uttered those same exact words to me I would’ve ran from him a lot faster. Unfortunately all he ever does is tell me how much he loves me-BULLSH*T!
Yes Phil is an ass clown but then again this woman is not doing herself any favors by sticking around w him knowing he’s married still and treating her so disrespectfully. She has some responsibility in this too.
Phil, I hope she does see the light soon and dump you, don’t be surprised if YOU then become the chaser and hopefully she turns the tables on you.
Phil… can’t you say NO to her? Is she strong-arming you into sleeping with her? Do you have caller ID? How about you don’t go to her house, don’t answer any more of her calls and don’t let her sleep in your bed?
Can you say “taking advantage” Phil? Are you so completely disconnected from any semblance of respect for other people’s feelings that you can do this to another person and sleep at night?
I say both Phil and the girl need help. Separate therapists please.
Let your behavior reflect your words. Stay away.
Why is it that i recognize my EUM is an assclown, I agree that I am not “healing or finding a suitable mate” and that I need to walk away.. but still some of the time can convince myself that because he is sleeping with me and taking my calls and acting boyfriendy when we’re together (even though he says he only wants to stay casual and doesnt see a future for us), that he will someday soon come around?
I hold out hope that this assclown behavior is only a screen behind which he’s the same great, committed guy who he was to his ex that he’s still getting over.
How can this fallback girl gather the balls to cut it off for good when i know he will continue to chase me and ill probably fall back into it?
Anne, the key to a being a successful EX FALLBACK GIRL is that she doesn’t give up in the face of failure…keep trying and cut it off with the assclown even if you fall back temporarily or were not successful. Just get right back up on that horse and do it again until you are successful. Don’t give up, eventually you will be successful.
I’ve just ended it with my EX EUM for the 5th or 6th time after 2years of going back and forth. I rode that enticing, rocky rollercoaster, for 2years…so don’t be hard on yourself. What helps me now is to rid myself of black and white thinking…either I would frame my ex eum as a manipulative bastard and hate him for not giving me what I need (all the while still having a relationship with him) and have pent up anger toward him because I wasn’t getting my needs met, but was afraid to express my anger
OR
I was at the other extreme where I was ignored all of the ways he showed he didn’t really care and I saw only the good times, the special connection, the intense physical attraction, the playfulness, his generosity, kindness, affection and his awesome sense of humor (which were his good points). The hard part for me was trying to figure out if “He’s just not that into me /manipulating me OR was he that damaged, disconnected and emotionally selfish and immature.
I still don’t know, but the bottom line is that either way I’ll never really figure it out and I’ve wasted too much mental energy trying to figure out something that I will never really know. Also, it was only a partial relationship in which it was his way or the highway.
What I am realizing now is that there are gray areas in life and we come together with people for different reasons. I think this last painful relationship was the one that made me face my own issues and I’m working with a therapist and reading a lot of material on self-esteem and realizing my self-esteem was so low and I was desperate to be loved and to have a relationship. The fear and anxiety I had regarding not being lovable or not being able to have a successful relationship kept me stuck in this one.
So…take a good, hard look at yourself and get help if you need it…it’s a long journey, but we are worth it!
Thank you NML and everyone for the support and a place I can share my thoughts and feelings where it’s safe and there is encouragement and understanding.
Bless you all!
Anne, what you are seeing is a ‘relationship calculus’ word problem. If you list out the components and their relative weights, the problem becomes clearer.
-10 – my EUM is an assclown
– 30 – I am not “healing or finding a suitable mate†and that I need to walk away
+40 – he is sleeping with me
+20 – taking my calls
+30 – acting boyfriendy when we’re together
-30 – he says he only wants to stay casual
-30 – he doesnt see a future for us
=====
-10
A negative sum means ==> he will *not* someday soon come around
Depending on the day, and the mood, and how long since he messed you over, some of the negatives could seem less negative, or the pluses seem more positive. And that would tip the scale to show a possible “Yes!” for coming around, treasuring you, and being their for you the rest of your life.
That is why, from day to day, the answer seems to wobble back and forth.
But I think there are a couple of factors missing. To me, respect is a major biggie. And you don’t list anything about respect – because he doesn’t respect you. You are missing a -50 for respect.
You didn’t list honesty. Yes, he sleeps with you, but he also reassures you his life is a perpetual date, that he won’t be helping you build a family – which makes the continued sex a deceit. A dependable bed partner implies a lifetime commitment. I would rate his honesty as a strong -30 or worse, depending on whether you can trust his promises and his stories and excuses.
When you combine his track record, and look at his actions over the last months, the answers and prospects look a lot grimmer, than when you sample your own feelings at the moment (that gives him leverage to talk you into stuff that you know to avoid). Fill out his ‘score card’ every morning. And list *everything* that applies to a reasoned decision – can you afford to spend another *hour* of your life with this guy?
The alternative to spending time with this guy, is to start recovering, start identifying baggage, start becoming the woman that the kind of man you need, will want. And you can’t find that lifetime family thing until you get past this perpetual dater you have sleeping over.
You ask why you can’t cross that divide from ‘hanging on’ to ‘busting free’. You are letting him pick the discussions, letting him set the terms. He keeps you focused on the parts of discussion he can win, and you let him distract you from your own needs, from reasonable values – and from the time you keep donating (wasting) to his perpetual date.
If you pay real close attention to time, maybe that will help. Because we all know, you are not allowed to pay attention to anything a person says an hour before, or half hour after, an orgasm or the hope of an orgasm. So be careful not to include anything he says in the ‘black out’ times, when you think of his value as a future mate.
Brad, you are a genius!!! Reading your post today really gave me strength and validated everything I’ve been feeling and thinking. When I am missing having a man in my life, I start to think more positively about the ex-EUM, but when I do, I will use that score card to set me straight. I notice that when I was “in it” with the EX EUM all I could really focus on was all the negatives and my needs not being met and when I would break up I would miss all of the positives, get lonely and go back with him. I think that seeing the whole picture by using that score card will help me to stay on track (NC).
Another tough part for me is I was looking for a relationship to make me happy and happiness is hard work that has to be done by myself. It’s a journey, but one I will continue to walk…
My whole life I looked to others for my happiness…and I never realized I did that. No one can give you happiness or take it away for that matter..it’s really in learning who you are and not being afraid to face your fears and feelings…it’s scary for me. I don’t think I ever really let myself fully feel all of my feelings and always found a way to numb them, either men, food, shopping or being with friends. The most difficult for me is in the morning, I find it hard to get out of bed when I don’t have to go to work or don’t have plans in the morning…I lay there and ruminate about things…takes me an hour or so to get moving. Any ideas????
Brad, that formula is genius– especially your remarks about how my relative evaluations of his positives varies according to how he is currently acting, but the baseline factors of honesty and respect are always negative enough to counteract all his so-called positives. Using this formula, it is going to be much easier to continue to convince myself that ‘busting free’ is the only option.
FSTL, thanks for your original response above, it helps so much to not be the only otherwise intelligent, caring woman going through this.
As for your morning ruminations, i do the same thing on days i dont have work or plans. It may help if you schedule something that forces you to get up and get moving (teach someone english lessons, get a personal trainer appointment or a massage..) If you’re anything like me, once you get up and do the first thing in the morning, you’ll feel pretty proud of yourself and pumped to fill the rest of your day with positive, productive things that dont require the presence of others.
If you schedule things for first thing in the morning and then you push through the cloud of bed-ridden ruminations to get up and get going and come through for yourself, it should make you feel great. Us fallback girls are so used to going the extra mile for our EUMs.. when you start applying that effort to yourself, it is massively gratifying. And at least for me, it spells one less day that i spend thinking about my EUM and one more thinking about what i really want and why I deserve it. Because I rock!
You rock too FSTL.
Finally Seen The Light, thanks for the kind words, but I just copied out what Anne wrote. Journals, diaries, heck, even comments on Blogs can be immensely powerful.
My first thought reading your question was that, yes, we have to find happiness in ourselves, we can’t expect others to make us happy. But I disagree with you, others *can* take away our happiness (or NML wouldn’t have anyone to write for!).
There are any number of wonderful, classic ways to manage difficulty getting started in the morning. Keeping a fixed routine – jump up, do some exercises, grab an orange juice and a bowl of oatmeal (the roughage keeps other cycles moving smoothly, which indirectly adds to a normal daily rhythm). Really! get in the habit of getting through the morning ritual, at the same time every day, no matter whether you go to work. Maybe plan on cleanup or something, before you get to the end of the routine, well out of bed, to plan the rest of the day.
A pet needs regular care, and can be a wonderful way to establish an ‘every day, come hell or high water’ set of tasks that bring us out of our own thoughts. Clean the litter pan, walk the dog, clean the bird cage, feed the fish/cat/dog/bird/lizzard/snake/trantula – whatever pet you choose. Plus, cats, birds, and dogs respond to voice, we can pretend to influence snakes, lizards, fish, and cats, and each has their own beauty. An aquarium also helps maintain moisture in the house. Or maybe volunteer to help clean cages at the local Humane Society. That will take your mind off about anything. Just remember – never take on more than one pet a year!! Trying to ‘fix’ needy situations gets us in trouble!
But likely part of the malaise is depression. Mild depression hits most of us, especially at trying times (like a breakup). Keep up plenty of fluids, healthy eating, a good, active routine, and keep contact with honest, respectful and respected people. Talking to an experienced counselor can help restore energy. Some people find it really tough, getting back into balance, alone. Make sure you are taking your vitamins, along with healthy eating, regular sleep and rising times, and more walking and exercise.
Luck!
I think that everyone is being unjustly mean to Phil.
It does indeed take two to tango, and if someone offers me cake on a plate I am going to eat it too. That is all that Phil is doing.
Phil, you know what the answer is and you don’t need to be asking here. Stop wasting your time and get busy with someone you really care about, releasing your lady-unloved to someone who might give more than a toss about her.
No, better still… Spend some time on yourself and leave the world of relationships alone until such time that you are ready for another.
Phil knows he is in the wrong. I’m sure if this lady were to stop calling him for a week or so he would begin chasing her, thus confusing her more. My EUM is just like him, one day he’ll say he’s not ready for anything serious, I’ll stop pursuing him, and within in a week he’ll be back, trying to be a better man, take me on dates etc. It’s incredibly confusing for women when a guy says one thing, but does another, making us think there’s a chance it might just work out if we try a little harder…Phil, sit her down, tell her as clearly as you stated it on this blog (without including excuses like the fact that you’re getting over someone else, this just gives her reason to prove to you that she’s not “her”) and stop sleeping with her!
I went through a similar situation with an EUM. he told me several wks ago to leave him alone,stay away from him and to never call his house again. Do i believe i will never see or hear from him again? No. He’ll be back when things aren’t going well or he has nothing else better to do with his life but i have to be the one who is strong and send him on his way. i deserve much better than what he is willing to give. i have done some of the same things this girl you speak about has done the emails etc… and have gotten no replies which just confirms to me that he will be back in due time. you apparently have told her it’s over and for her to move on. all this man is doing is ignoring me. it will be his loss not mine in the long run.
Kat, umm. That sounds way harsh. “Don’t call it evil, when ignorance will suffice.” That is, Phil thought he was on an endless date. He thought he was getting the sex because she wanted it that way. He is catching glimpses that his behavior isn’t good for her, or for him either. But nothing said here claims that he intended to harm anyone, nor that he even realized the mistakes he was making.
In a real sense, Phil’s actions and understanding are in line with popular TV shows, novels, movies, and beer and Vogue and Victoria’s Secret ads. He is a true son of modern culture. Dysfunctional, but not evil.
The wonder is not how many perpetual, professional daters there are out there with no clue nor drive to get beyond dating as a lifestyle – the wonder is that so many good people manage to move past the ad-inspired pop culture to establish nurturing relationships.
I am not excusing Phil for wanting a sexual relationship outside the bonds of a committed long term mating. But remember, we still celebrate the ‘summer of Love’ back in the 1960’s, for more than just good music. Much of the Women’s Liberation movement was to claim sexual ‘freedom’ – permission to act like assclowns with men.
Phil’s limited understanding at the time was a *huge* problem for the women in his life, and for him, too. It just seems harsh to me to blame Phil, now, for what he didn’t know, then. It would be like blaming a color blind person for wearing one brown sock and one red one. It doesn’t even sound like there is massive disrespect here, either.
Kat, I think maybe we should save the big guns for the really evil ones – the abusers, those without respect, the deceivers.
Glad to read Phil’s post. Gives some insight as to how EUMS justify their actions.
And yes Phil – you are unavailable. However, your lady friend needs to share some of the blame here as well for accepting your shoddy treatment and for beleiving that she can “bring you around to committing to her.”
Do the honourable and manly thing. Stop sleeping with her, break up with her and give her a chance to meet some one who is fully available, ready & willing to reciprocate her love.
uh huh , You will continue to take (sex) as long as she is willing to give it