Amy asks: For about 8 years, starting in college, I’ve had this friend, “William” who is a classic EUM. William and I have never been romantically involved, nor do I have any romantic interest in him. He’s never expressed any romantic interest in me either. I’m really not sure why this is, since I have a known tendency to fall for EUMs, but William and I have always been platonic. Maybe I’m part of his narcissistic harem!
However, because of my extensive and devastating experiences with several EUMs, I feel guilty when William tells me of the women HE’S being an EUM to. He talks about sleeping with them, dating them for short periods of time and dumping them if they don’t do exactly as he wants. He often says these girls are “crazy”, but based on what he tells me, I think these women are probably just insecure Fallback Girls like me.Since I’m not romantically involved with William, is there anything I can do to help him and any potential women he might use? I don’t want to see more women hurt the way I’ve been, but William is respectful to me, so I don’t see him as a lost cause or feel a need to end our friendship. Am I wrong?
NML says: It is interesting that you are friends with William and also attracted to Mr Unavailable’s but not him, but don’t mistake the part he has in your life because he is still an example of gravitating towards emotionally unavailable men although I imagine around him you feel safe and secure because you are the trusted confidante, and indeed you are part of his ‘narcissistic harem’.
But that aside, to answer your question about whether you can help him – it’s very difficult to help those who don’t want to be helped and those who are disconnected from their behaviour – that is usually Mr Unavailable’s.
He calls the women “crazy” because it makes him feel better about treating them in a shitty way – classic Mr Unavailable behaviour where they absolve themselves of any responsibility for their poor actions because the problem is surely everyone else but them. This in itself suggests to me that he is a very typical Mr Unavailable in that he is disconnected from his behaviour so I’m not sure how receptive he can be to help. The reason why Fallback Girls change is because generally at some point they experience something with a guy that becomes a way of showing them the light where they seek to be different and want different things because they’re connected enough to recognise enough is enough. He’s having a good time – it’s the women who get the shitty end of the stick.
The only thing you can do to help the women he might use is to warn them off him but you have to ask yourself if a female friend of a guy you were interested in warned you off, would you welcome her help or tell her to get lost because you’re suspicious of her motives?
With him, as you are his friend, only you can say if he has ever enlightened you as to why he behaves the way that he does. If he has opened up enough to discuss this, it could certainly help to create an open dialogue between you both, however be careful of what you say and approach steady and cautiously, because the first thing these men do is withdraw or even turn nasty when too much light dawns on their marble heads…
I think you are putting your energy in the wrong places – it’s not your place to try and change yet another man who will undoubtedly resist change. You would do far better to get in touch with your own desire to engage with Mr Unavailable’s so that you can tackle your pattern and lose your attraction to these men. Of course one side effect is that your friendship with him may not be so attractive….
With regards to losing his friendship and his respectfulness towards you, Mr Unavailable’s are often liked by many others, and can treat others kindly or what they perceive to be kindly – often actually they are not hugely connected with their friends and when people dig deep, they often discover their friendships with these men have little substance and are often one sided where they play sidekick or amateur psychologist as they listen to all of his problems. When they ask themselves how much they really know about this person, on reflection it turns out to be not very much. They’re certainly abysmal partners to be involved with in a romantic relationship. Their particularly typical behaviour is tied to mistreating people who they perceive to expect, want, or need something from them. That’s why he is always calling these women “crazy” even though he’s led them on a merry dance, and then withdrawn when he suspects that they want more than he can give often because he’s implied he can give it…
Am I telling you not to be his friend? No. But make sure you’re friends for the right reasons and that he’s not just another Mr Unavailable in your life under the guise of friendship. Most of all, sort your own stuff out before you get involved in his.
Update: Since I replied to Amy, she has added that “The thing that really helps me keep distance from William is that we live in different states now, so I don’t have to deal with him as often. But you were SPOT ON when you talked about me being his “personal psychotherapist”. She also said that “William has never come right out and told me, but based on the gossip that goes around our circle of friends (and I realize that’s not entirely reliable), he was hurt very badly by a girl in college, before he and I were friends, and that may explain – but not justify – his behavior.”
Man, these Mr Unavailable’s are soooo predictable!
Your thoughts? What would you do? Do you have friendships with Mr Unavailable’s?
If you want to learn how to understand your involvement with Mr Unavailable’s and how to move on, check out my new ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.Find out more and download.
NML,
I have had one 20 year ‘friendship with a classic EUM and it was just as you described.
And your description of what an EUM does and how he justifies it and has little to no desire to change, resents it if someone points it out – and in fact, really isn’t a friend AT ALL if you want depth and committment even as a friend, is spot on, as you would say.
Looked at it now through new and wiser eyes, I would never have encouraged his ‘friendship’.
The fact is, I tolerated crap and was a minor variation of a fallback girl until I finally became disgusted and realized nothing was going to change and broke it off for good. hE’S NOT CAPABLE – AND NEVER WAS – OF EVEN A TOTALLY EQUAL GIVE-AND TAKE PLANTONIC FRIENDSHIP.
After 20 years, it was too much effort for him to send me a brithday card, call to wish me a merry christmas and introDuce me to his kids. It was always just about him. BLECH !
As to the poor women he dates, YES I WOULD WARN THEM !!! tHEY MAY NOT LISTEN, BUT THAT’S NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You tried to help them because you’ve seen the m.o.
If they are suuspicious of your motives, they’ll find out soon enought that you’ve told the truth.
One of the guys at the gym I train at is a EUM in spades. He just emotionally DESTROYED a woman after playing with her heart and expectations like a maestro for almost 3 months and then walking away on a dime, totally indifferent.
I want to talk to her so I can explain that it isn’t her – she juist got got caught up ina trap, had hopes and jumped to conclusions about who he was without really knowing him.
Those dreaded 10 things we shouldn’t aassign meaning to – like owning his own business, having had a 20 year marriage where he was faithful, loving his children, not doing drugs/drinking/smoking/gambling, etc.
They meant nothing because he is COLD COLD COLD.
The warm smile and sparkling blue eyes, the good manners of please and thank you and calling every day, the spending the night — all MEANINGLESS.
He has very little emotion attached to his behavior.
He told her she said all the right things and did all the right things, made her think he was monogamous, told her his last gf lasted a year.
What he left out was that it is always his way or the highway, and the most minor reuqest by a woman to have him meet her on her terms results in instant dismissal/ending the relationship.
And then he turned around and called her a stalker because she called or texted him 20 times over the weekend trying to get an answer from him as to WHY he did this HOW he could do this after everything had seemed so great between them.
He refused to talk to her to tell her anything. Said she’d figure it out on her own eventually, and she should have been smart enough not to give so much to him emotionally in such a short period of time.
And if this EUM is a ‘friend’ with another woman ? guess what – same M.O.,
what means something to you will never mean as much to him. Never. You”re just convenient for his ego until you start making ‘demands’ or uncovering the truth about him.
Astelle
on 08/10/2008 at 11:06 pm
NML, this post made me laugh and realize what I have learned and I apply it nicely.
I had a co-worker that stayed in touch with me for years – never romantically involved.
After you taught me about EUM and cutting contact – I also cut off this “friend” a few months ago. Funny, first I thought I cut him off because he was getting on my nerves, no, because he is an EUM as well. All the e-mails were all about him – I was his audience!
Loving Annie, you can’t warn a woman – it is not possible. My friend picked up an assclown a few months ago and she won’t listen to what I say.
He “dropped” a napkin with his phone number at a bar and my friend called him – unbelievable!!!
She watched me go thru all this heartache and still insists this guy is different. Yup, I used to think mine was different – well, they are all different, screwed up in different ways. 🙂
Nilondoner
on 09/10/2008 at 11:54 am
I do have one of those as a friend!
For me there are three categories of friends 1) friend-friend (we would do anythign for each other; 2) friend-acquaintance (knowing for a long time and some degree of spiritual intimacy but without consisten communication; 3) acquaintance (you don’t know them what well yet but they could become either.
My friend belongs to the second group.
I had a crush on him for a few weeks in my second year at uni, a long time ago; when I realized the type (thank god before it was too late), suddenly I stopped liking him, I laughed my head off and told them that he wasn’t my cup of tea. I meant it and it felt great.
We kept in touch, nothing major, a coffee when I’m in town and the odd email. I don’t care about him “romantically” and I don’t care if he thinks me part of his “harem”. We have huge rows about his behaviour with other women, and that’s the part I enjoy the most: telling him what I think of him and his kind.
I’m grateful to my good common sense that I wasn’t one of them but it still gets me really angry seeing how he behaves. He cheats and lies and strings women along for years. I tell him what I think of his behaviour and he’s not stupid so I keep hoping that sooner or later something might just sink in and if he doesn’t … not my problem.
Do I trust him as a friend? Of course not. Does he try to get me to massage his ego? Sure (“I miss you, you were the only woman who made any sense in my life, I made a mistake with you, you would have been the only one capable to keep me in line etc”)
What do I do? I laugh in his face and tell me that they won’t catch me dead with someone like him.
lisaq
on 09/10/2008 at 12:32 pm
Yeah. Not a good thing I think. I’ve learned recently that for me to continue my work and growth, I need people in my life who add value to it. I’ve had to really think about the one-sidedness and the psycho therapy crap and make some changes based on what I need. Holding on to friendships with unavailables doesn’t allow me to continue to grow.
I think Amy is seeing him as a fixer upper regardless of any romantic ties to him. Perhaps he’s become a project to her. I think it’s time to cut & run.
FinallyOverIt
on 09/10/2008 at 4:19 pm
After what I have been through with my ex-EUM, I would NEVER be friends with a man who is emotionally unavailable. It isn’t enough for me to have someone in my life that blows hot and cold and ignores me for weeks at a time. I think that type of behavior is rude and totally disrespectful of the other person. I guess it comes down to what we define as true friendship. To me, it means that you both care about each other, and it’s a totally reciprocal relationship. I don’t think EUMs are capable of maintaining this type of relationship–they are too slelf absorbed and disconnected socially and emotionally to handle it. Just not worth my time anymore!
I can’t get over the fact that the MO is so similar with all these men, where did they all learn it?
To Amy I’d say don’t waste your time thinking you can change him in any way – they don’t want it, don’t need it and won’t do it anyway unless it benefits them in some way. I don’t think they are manipulative deliberately, just that somewhere down the line they learned how to get their basic needs met, and are so devoid of emotional life that they can’t see that there is any other way of relating.
As to saving the other women from him.,don’t waste your breath, when I first met my EUM I was warned that same day that he was a loner and a womaniser, did it matter to me? Duh, I had met my soulmate so of course not.
I’m still ‘friends’ with him, he broke my heart but also propelled me into therapy – where I realised that I am the daughter of an EUM who brought us up as a single parent ( my Mum had left him having been anhilated by him) and of course we feel comfortable with what is familiar. Probably why you are still friends with William too.
I know that my ‘friend’ sees most relationships as an exchange of functions, you know, you do this for me and I’ll do that for you. We broke up because we’d tipped over into the area of actually feeling something for each other, which terrified us both, and sparked off issues of loss of control.
When I needed a shoulder to lean on as my parents were both very ill, the attention was off him and he was required to consider me – that’s where the wheels came off – he just couldn’t cope with me being distracted. He went through the motions ( I think they are comfortable being given rules as to how to behave because they have no internal way of insinctively knowing) but he was really not happy.
So I reckon that being in danger of actually having feelings for another person, having obligations towards them (because even they know that there are expected ways to behave), but then not being number one is just about the worst thing possible for an EUM and there is only one result.
Amy you could spend your life trying to work out how to ‘fix’ William, but it shouldn’t be more than an occasional intellectual exercise to you – because it won’t work. It might however help you to understand yourself a bit better.
Mind you I’m in no position to speak, I still have sex with my EUM, stupid I know and unhealthy for me but……..the physical pull is huge, still at least I know what I am dealing with these days 🙂
tulipa
on 10/10/2008 at 3:01 am
A few years ago I did an inventory of my friends many were male some I had dated some I hadn’t .. one day I stopped contacting them not all of them together just one or two here or there … and I’m down to one guy who still contacts me..
I don’t know what woke me up to how much i was chasing these EUMs but some of them I still miss but I remind myself how much I was there for them and how little there were there for me and thats enough for me to continue to leave them alone.
However I am difficulty with the latest EUM .. I am conducting the same experiment of not contacting him because again I was aware of the fact that the all the contact was coming from me first like I was waving a banner saying HEY IM ALIVE… This guys harem is huge… so Im guessing it will take a little while for my number to come up and he needs an ego stroke from me.. Would be great if I could just say no thanks..
I don’t think women listen even if you do give them a sound warning I got a warning from the guy himself and did I stop to think………. NOOOOOO …
Brad K.
on 15/10/2008 at 7:40 pm
Astelle – There was a very good reason you couldn’t warn your friend.
You were under the mistaken impression she was looking for a relationship.
Picking up a partner at a bar is never about a relationship – this is a sexual adventure. The danger, the risk, the fact you don’t know their background, these are key parts of the ‘excitement’. You might as well sit in the airplane with a skydiver and try to explain that jumping from the plane could be risky. She had already decided to go for the excitement.
Astelle
on 18/10/2008 at 2:47 am
Brad, she is looking for a relationship, she was sooo flattered when the hostess gave her the napkin with his phone number written on it. They are both in their mid fifties. She made contact and he is messing her around with not making time and so on.
You are a man, why would a man drop a napkin – after starring at her for 2 hours – and not walk up to her?
Brad K.
on 18/10/2008 at 3:44 am
Astelle – She already blew her chances for a quickie hookup. A guy (or gal, I guess) that drops their phone number or keys is asking if you want sex, now, without any talking or other distractions. If your friend hasn’t watched the ‘meaningful’ relationships in James Bond movies or hung out in hotel bars, I can promise you this Casanova has.
The approach is impersonal, it lacks respect for your friend. But you know me – I say pick from guys with good character, and then let your heart flutter. The napkin thing is just one of the pranks that leads me to recommend – don’t talk to anyone in a bar you didn’t arrive with.
It also sounds like the guy is inept – he didn’t get the quick tumble he thought he had asked for – and her return call seemed to agree to. But now he can’t find the fortitude to tell her thanks, and have a nice day – or to be a man and treat her like a lady – His lady. I suppose he thinks he might still get lucky, either in bed or with some home cooking, pretend-relationship style. I imagine he likes casinos and mostly loses, with his lack of discipline, poorly defined goals, and greed.
I think he is a predator, and I am sorry your friend was distracted by him. At the same time, if she wants a family (a home that a couple make), she needs to stop hanging out where the professional daters gather to switch and swap. and while away the days with games and drama.
Astelle
on 18/10/2008 at 6:06 am
Brad, this is so funny that you mentioned James Bond. A mutual friend of ours told her he is a “James Bond wanna be” 🙂
If he goes to the same bars every week, is he not known there as a loser or just a regular?
Yes, he is a Predator and I am amazed that a man at his AGE would act like that.
This bar is not a sleezy, low class place at all, we go there for Happy Hours with people from work from time to time, and yes, I never leave with anybody else than the people I came with.
She is still seeing him – when he wants to that is – she will get hurt, I believe she is already. What kills me, she knew how how my Saga played out with my assclown, but this will not stop her playing HIS game. I am there for her, but my passion is getting less and less. She insists he can’t play her, she would know if he would….
Wow, how did you “know” he likes Casinos? he does, I don’t know if he loses or wins, but I would like to know what the relation is with this type of man and casinos?
I am from Europe and have not been to a casino here in the States, so I don’t know what the atmosphare is like and what draws people to go there a lot, guessing addiction?
I have been to Monaco a few times and I went with my uncle ,who lives there,to the Casino, but I guess it is different, I don’t know how to gamble, but just the places were beautiful to see.
I talked to my friend last week, I send her the link to this Website and asked her to please read it or even better send her story (almost like mine) to NML for advice.
I feel she is resenting me a little bit, she has been alone for a long time and maybe feels I am trying to spoil her fun. I want her to have fun, but not this kind of “fun”
AHHHH, I guess age has nothing to do with how people act?
Brad K.
on 18/10/2008 at 12:11 pm
Going to the same bar, or to many bars, doesn’t make one a loser. Making sex and easy sex a lifestyle doesn’t make one a loser. Look at how Hugh Hefner, famous for never ‘settling down’, still makes out.
Going to bars, gravitating to a life of glitter and glamour, does abandon the values that contribute to a satisfying family life. People that value long term relationships and character will get tired of, or be repulsed by, the culture of ‘watering holes’. There might be the odd and sod that drops by with the local crowd, or with friends from work – but better mate prospects, the kind of guy/gal that would make a long term companion, won’t be in the bar for the society or for the casual interactions.
You started the thought of this friend with the warning to Loving Annie how you can’t warn friends. I think the real issue with your friend is not that the guy is messing her about. The real issue, the one that she deserves a warning about, is that for a relationship that lasts longer than a quick tumble requires character.
Everyone is equal before the law, given ability to pay lawyers and to manage their public facade, etc. For companions, though, especially intimate companions, people are not equal, they are not interchangeable. Not because some are Blonde, but because some desire commitment, others adoration. Some want someone to guide and care for, others someone to cower before them so they feel in control of their life. Some want a partner, others a servant or master or pet, or trophy to show off to friends and family.
Your friend may think she wants a relationship, but her actions say she is pursuing glitter, glamour, and a sexual adventure. And then agonizes that her ‘significant other’ isn’t measuring up as a ‘let’s make a home forever’ mate. She picked up a prune from the box of prunes at the produce aisle, and when she ate it was disappointed it didn’t taste like an apricot. When you want an apricot, step away from the prunes and find the apricot bin.
Carm
on 18/10/2008 at 5:11 pm
Awesome analogy Brad with the prunes and apricots! It is very true, we have to find our mates from the apricot bin from now on if we really truly want a life long mate.
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NML,
I have had one 20 year ‘friendship with a classic EUM and it was just as you described.
And your description of what an EUM does and how he justifies it and has little to no desire to change, resents it if someone points it out – and in fact, really isn’t a friend AT ALL if you want depth and committment even as a friend, is spot on, as you would say.
Looked at it now through new and wiser eyes, I would never have encouraged his ‘friendship’.
The fact is, I tolerated crap and was a minor variation of a fallback girl until I finally became disgusted and realized nothing was going to change and broke it off for good. hE’S NOT CAPABLE – AND NEVER WAS – OF EVEN A TOTALLY EQUAL GIVE-AND TAKE PLANTONIC FRIENDSHIP.
After 20 years, it was too much effort for him to send me a brithday card, call to wish me a merry christmas and introDuce me to his kids. It was always just about him. BLECH !
As to the poor women he dates, YES I WOULD WARN THEM !!! tHEY MAY NOT LISTEN, BUT THAT’S NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You tried to help them because you’ve seen the m.o.
If they are suuspicious of your motives, they’ll find out soon enought that you’ve told the truth.
One of the guys at the gym I train at is a EUM in spades. He just emotionally DESTROYED a woman after playing with her heart and expectations like a maestro for almost 3 months and then walking away on a dime, totally indifferent.
I want to talk to her so I can explain that it isn’t her – she juist got got caught up ina trap, had hopes and jumped to conclusions about who he was without really knowing him.
Those dreaded 10 things we shouldn’t aassign meaning to – like owning his own business, having had a 20 year marriage where he was faithful, loving his children, not doing drugs/drinking/smoking/gambling, etc.
They meant nothing because he is COLD COLD COLD.
The warm smile and sparkling blue eyes, the good manners of please and thank you and calling every day, the spending the night — all MEANINGLESS.
He has very little emotion attached to his behavior.
He told her she said all the right things and did all the right things, made her think he was monogamous, told her his last gf lasted a year.
What he left out was that it is always his way or the highway, and the most minor reuqest by a woman to have him meet her on her terms results in instant dismissal/ending the relationship.
And then he turned around and called her a stalker because she called or texted him 20 times over the weekend trying to get an answer from him as to WHY he did this HOW he could do this after everything had seemed so great between them.
He refused to talk to her to tell her anything. Said she’d figure it out on her own eventually, and she should have been smart enough not to give so much to him emotionally in such a short period of time.
And if this EUM is a ‘friend’ with another woman ? guess what – same M.O.,
what means something to you will never mean as much to him. Never. You”re just convenient for his ego until you start making ‘demands’ or uncovering the truth about him.
NML, this post made me laugh and realize what I have learned and I apply it nicely.
I had a co-worker that stayed in touch with me for years – never romantically involved.
After you taught me about EUM and cutting contact – I also cut off this “friend” a few months ago. Funny, first I thought I cut him off because he was getting on my nerves, no, because he is an EUM as well. All the e-mails were all about him – I was his audience!
Loving Annie, you can’t warn a woman – it is not possible. My friend picked up an assclown a few months ago and she won’t listen to what I say.
He “dropped” a napkin with his phone number at a bar and my friend called him – unbelievable!!!
She watched me go thru all this heartache and still insists this guy is different. Yup, I used to think mine was different – well, they are all different, screwed up in different ways. 🙂
I do have one of those as a friend!
For me there are three categories of friends 1) friend-friend (we would do anythign for each other; 2) friend-acquaintance (knowing for a long time and some degree of spiritual intimacy but without consisten communication; 3) acquaintance (you don’t know them what well yet but they could become either.
My friend belongs to the second group.
I had a crush on him for a few weeks in my second year at uni, a long time ago; when I realized the type (thank god before it was too late), suddenly I stopped liking him, I laughed my head off and told them that he wasn’t my cup of tea. I meant it and it felt great.
We kept in touch, nothing major, a coffee when I’m in town and the odd email. I don’t care about him “romantically” and I don’t care if he thinks me part of his “harem”. We have huge rows about his behaviour with other women, and that’s the part I enjoy the most: telling him what I think of him and his kind.
I’m grateful to my good common sense that I wasn’t one of them but it still gets me really angry seeing how he behaves. He cheats and lies and strings women along for years. I tell him what I think of his behaviour and he’s not stupid so I keep hoping that sooner or later something might just sink in and if he doesn’t … not my problem.
Do I trust him as a friend? Of course not. Does he try to get me to massage his ego? Sure (“I miss you, you were the only woman who made any sense in my life, I made a mistake with you, you would have been the only one capable to keep me in line etc”)
What do I do? I laugh in his face and tell me that they won’t catch me dead with someone like him.
Yeah. Not a good thing I think. I’ve learned recently that for me to continue my work and growth, I need people in my life who add value to it. I’ve had to really think about the one-sidedness and the psycho therapy crap and make some changes based on what I need. Holding on to friendships with unavailables doesn’t allow me to continue to grow.
I think Amy is seeing him as a fixer upper regardless of any romantic ties to him. Perhaps he’s become a project to her. I think it’s time to cut & run.
After what I have been through with my ex-EUM, I would NEVER be friends with a man who is emotionally unavailable. It isn’t enough for me to have someone in my life that blows hot and cold and ignores me for weeks at a time. I think that type of behavior is rude and totally disrespectful of the other person. I guess it comes down to what we define as true friendship. To me, it means that you both care about each other, and it’s a totally reciprocal relationship. I don’t think EUMs are capable of maintaining this type of relationship–they are too slelf absorbed and disconnected socially and emotionally to handle it. Just not worth my time anymore!
I can’t get over the fact that the MO is so similar with all these men, where did they all learn it?
To Amy I’d say don’t waste your time thinking you can change him in any way – they don’t want it, don’t need it and won’t do it anyway unless it benefits them in some way. I don’t think they are manipulative deliberately, just that somewhere down the line they learned how to get their basic needs met, and are so devoid of emotional life that they can’t see that there is any other way of relating.
As to saving the other women from him.,don’t waste your breath, when I first met my EUM I was warned that same day that he was a loner and a womaniser, did it matter to me? Duh, I had met my soulmate so of course not.
I’m still ‘friends’ with him, he broke my heart but also propelled me into therapy – where I realised that I am the daughter of an EUM who brought us up as a single parent ( my Mum had left him having been anhilated by him) and of course we feel comfortable with what is familiar. Probably why you are still friends with William too.
I know that my ‘friend’ sees most relationships as an exchange of functions, you know, you do this for me and I’ll do that for you. We broke up because we’d tipped over into the area of actually feeling something for each other, which terrified us both, and sparked off issues of loss of control.
When I needed a shoulder to lean on as my parents were both very ill, the attention was off him and he was required to consider me – that’s where the wheels came off – he just couldn’t cope with me being distracted. He went through the motions ( I think they are comfortable being given rules as to how to behave because they have no internal way of insinctively knowing) but he was really not happy.
So I reckon that being in danger of actually having feelings for another person, having obligations towards them (because even they know that there are expected ways to behave), but then not being number one is just about the worst thing possible for an EUM and there is only one result.
Amy you could spend your life trying to work out how to ‘fix’ William, but it shouldn’t be more than an occasional intellectual exercise to you – because it won’t work. It might however help you to understand yourself a bit better.
Mind you I’m in no position to speak, I still have sex with my EUM, stupid I know and unhealthy for me but……..the physical pull is huge, still at least I know what I am dealing with these days 🙂
A few years ago I did an inventory of my friends many were male some I had dated some I hadn’t .. one day I stopped contacting them not all of them together just one or two here or there … and I’m down to one guy who still contacts me..
I don’t know what woke me up to how much i was chasing these EUMs but some of them I still miss but I remind myself how much I was there for them and how little there were there for me and thats enough for me to continue to leave them alone.
However I am difficulty with the latest EUM .. I am conducting the same experiment of not contacting him because again I was aware of the fact that the all the contact was coming from me first like I was waving a banner saying HEY IM ALIVE… This guys harem is huge… so Im guessing it will take a little while for my number to come up and he needs an ego stroke from me.. Would be great if I could just say no thanks..
I don’t think women listen even if you do give them a sound warning I got a warning from the guy himself and did I stop to think………. NOOOOOO …
Astelle – There was a very good reason you couldn’t warn your friend.
You were under the mistaken impression she was looking for a relationship.
Picking up a partner at a bar is never about a relationship – this is a sexual adventure. The danger, the risk, the fact you don’t know their background, these are key parts of the ‘excitement’. You might as well sit in the airplane with a skydiver and try to explain that jumping from the plane could be risky. She had already decided to go for the excitement.
Brad, she is looking for a relationship, she was sooo flattered when the hostess gave her the napkin with his phone number written on it. They are both in their mid fifties. She made contact and he is messing her around with not making time and so on.
You are a man, why would a man drop a napkin – after starring at her for 2 hours – and not walk up to her?
Astelle – She already blew her chances for a quickie hookup. A guy (or gal, I guess) that drops their phone number or keys is asking if you want sex, now, without any talking or other distractions. If your friend hasn’t watched the ‘meaningful’ relationships in James Bond movies or hung out in hotel bars, I can promise you this Casanova has.
The approach is impersonal, it lacks respect for your friend. But you know me – I say pick from guys with good character, and then let your heart flutter. The napkin thing is just one of the pranks that leads me to recommend – don’t talk to anyone in a bar you didn’t arrive with.
It also sounds like the guy is inept – he didn’t get the quick tumble he thought he had asked for – and her return call seemed to agree to. But now he can’t find the fortitude to tell her thanks, and have a nice day – or to be a man and treat her like a lady – His lady. I suppose he thinks he might still get lucky, either in bed or with some home cooking, pretend-relationship style. I imagine he likes casinos and mostly loses, with his lack of discipline, poorly defined goals, and greed.
I think he is a predator, and I am sorry your friend was distracted by him. At the same time, if she wants a family (a home that a couple make), she needs to stop hanging out where the professional daters gather to switch and swap. and while away the days with games and drama.
Brad, this is so funny that you mentioned James Bond. A mutual friend of ours told her he is a “James Bond wanna be” 🙂
If he goes to the same bars every week, is he not known there as a loser or just a regular?
Yes, he is a Predator and I am amazed that a man at his AGE would act like that.
This bar is not a sleezy, low class place at all, we go there for Happy Hours with people from work from time to time, and yes, I never leave with anybody else than the people I came with.
She is still seeing him – when he wants to that is – she will get hurt, I believe she is already. What kills me, she knew how how my Saga played out with my assclown, but this will not stop her playing HIS game. I am there for her, but my passion is getting less and less. She insists he can’t play her, she would know if he would….
Wow, how did you “know” he likes Casinos? he does, I don’t know if he loses or wins, but I would like to know what the relation is with this type of man and casinos?
I am from Europe and have not been to a casino here in the States, so I don’t know what the atmosphare is like and what draws people to go there a lot, guessing addiction?
I have been to Monaco a few times and I went with my uncle ,who lives there,to the Casino, but I guess it is different, I don’t know how to gamble, but just the places were beautiful to see.
I talked to my friend last week, I send her the link to this Website and asked her to please read it or even better send her story (almost like mine) to NML for advice.
I feel she is resenting me a little bit, she has been alone for a long time and maybe feels I am trying to spoil her fun. I want her to have fun, but not this kind of “fun”
AHHHH, I guess age has nothing to do with how people act?
Going to the same bar, or to many bars, doesn’t make one a loser. Making sex and easy sex a lifestyle doesn’t make one a loser. Look at how Hugh Hefner, famous for never ‘settling down’, still makes out.
Going to bars, gravitating to a life of glitter and glamour, does abandon the values that contribute to a satisfying family life. People that value long term relationships and character will get tired of, or be repulsed by, the culture of ‘watering holes’. There might be the odd and sod that drops by with the local crowd, or with friends from work – but better mate prospects, the kind of guy/gal that would make a long term companion, won’t be in the bar for the society or for the casual interactions.
You started the thought of this friend with the warning to Loving Annie how you can’t warn friends. I think the real issue with your friend is not that the guy is messing her about. The real issue, the one that she deserves a warning about, is that for a relationship that lasts longer than a quick tumble requires character.
Everyone is equal before the law, given ability to pay lawyers and to manage their public facade, etc. For companions, though, especially intimate companions, people are not equal, they are not interchangeable. Not because some are Blonde, but because some desire commitment, others adoration. Some want someone to guide and care for, others someone to cower before them so they feel in control of their life. Some want a partner, others a servant or master or pet, or trophy to show off to friends and family.
Your friend may think she wants a relationship, but her actions say she is pursuing glitter, glamour, and a sexual adventure. And then agonizes that her ‘significant other’ isn’t measuring up as a ‘let’s make a home forever’ mate. She picked up a prune from the box of prunes at the produce aisle, and when she ate it was disappointed it didn’t taste like an apricot. When you want an apricot, step away from the prunes and find the apricot bin.
Awesome analogy Brad with the prunes and apricots! It is very true, we have to find our mates from the apricot bin from now on if we really truly want a life long mate.