I’ve been at my most miserable when my life is out of whack. Work-life balance, miserable relationship-rest of life balance, worrying about what everyone else wants (family, friends, strangers, colleagues etc) or what they think of me – rest of life balance including what I think of myself, and even all at the same time, which was when my health hit rock bottom. When so much of your energy, emotion and esteem is taken up by one or even a number of things, It becomes like a vicious cycle with good patches and then back on the hamster wheel.
When your life is out of whack, your fears, unhealthy beliefs, doubts, insecurities, and habits, plus at times, shady/draining people – lead weights – end up eclipsing your ability to be happy and get the most out of your life. You get overtaken by it, you may become convinced that when the imbalance takes care of itself, that you will feel better, but may not recognise that you will have to be an active part of taking care of that balance.
You convince yourself that these ‘life suckers’ are super-important because if for instance, you finally turn around a relationship situation that’s making you miserable, you reason that you’ll be happy, or at least happier.
You may be devoting your life to extricating yourself out of a relationship but battling with your own feelings (and theirs) and putting so much energy into trying to avoid contact, dealing with your super-busy ruminating, if not damn near obsessing mind, that next thing you look up and months or even a year or so has gone by. The seasons have done their cycle, you’ve not quite realised how much has been going on in your family and friends lives, and your hobbies, interests and aspirations have nosedived while you’ve been ‘firefighting’. When it feels like you haven’t got much of you left, it can seem all the more important to put your energy on the breakup.
The job and the career are super-important because it might be a difficult job market, you may feel that it’s too late to start somewhere else or ‘too hard’, your esteem may be very tied up in your job performance or how you’re perceived by your colleagues, you may have busted your tail to study for this career and even if it’s not what you want anymore, you don’t feel like you could leave or retrain.
It may be that your value is very much tied to what ‘everyone’ appears to think of you (which incidentally may be your skewed perception), or how much you give and do in the hope of getting some love back. If you’re experiencing a lot of drama and dissatisfaction, it’s not too great a leap for you to make the misguided assumption that the universe is sending you a message that something is ‘wrong’ with you, which in turn will cause you to seek more validation.
Relying on your colleagues to change, for work to let up, to hopefully be noticed by the ‘right’ people, for the miserable relationship to become less miserable by you developing a ‘thicker skin’ (read compromising, ignoring, and even abusing yourself) and / or waiting for the other party to change or ‘release’ you out of the relationship, isn’t going to do much for your happiness.
Neither is hoping that one day you’ll spontaneously combust into someone who doesn’t overvalue the opinions of others to the detriment of yourself or that ‘everyone’ will validate you and that you’ll have an ‘opening’ to do something for yourself when you’re not being the Patron Saint Of Giving and Doing with a Ph.D in fixing/healing/helping and analysing the crappola out of people.
Something has to give.
, do you know what we’ll choose to ‘give’ on? The side where we’re already greatly compromised – it can seem easier to focus on the side that’s creating the imbalance because we lose confidence in our abilities to take care of ourselves. Low self-esteem, for example, will always ensure that if you have a choice between relying on external forces outside of your control, or you, shazam, you’ll go for the former.
If you don’t value or trust you, or it’s just a ‘simple’ case of you seeing these super-important things as an extension of you, you’ll choose what you attribute greater weight to.
Having periods of imbalance is inevitable – the shorter the better – but once it stretches into medium to long-term territory, it can feel like your back’s against the wall and that there are too many things in the way of reclaiming your life. You may feel helpless because you’ve felt unhappy for so long or that you appear to be powerless in your situation. It may feel like you have limited or even no options. It’ll seem like you’ve invested too much to ‘turn back’ now or to ‘throw it all away’.
One of the key things I’ve learned about life and happiness that always grounds me when I stray, is that treating yourself with love, care, trust, and respect, having boundaries, listening to yourself, taking time out, pausing to take in what’s around you, spending a good chunk of your awake time in the present, not being so quick to blame yourself, saying NO and not crapping yourself about it or feeling guilty, facing conflict, speaking up for yourself, meeting your own aspirations and living your life authentically, are habits.
For some, it comes naturally, but most of us have to feel the pain of life throwing us the same lessons until we heed the message, getting uncomfortable and out of our uncomfortable comfort zones, and plugging away until we learn the new habits.
Listen to the feedback from your life.
I’ve said this to many people – you’d be amazed at how the desire to remain in an unhealthy partnering shrinks when you put the focus (positively) on you and you begin addressing your own life and happiness independently of the person so that your confidence increases, as does your sense of worth. It gives you the strength to make more objective, self-love focused decisions and choices, instead of treading water, fire-fighting, and operating on fear.
No you’re probably not going to jack in your job tomorrow, but if you addressed where your frustrations with work were coming from as well as came up with ways to feel better in other areas of your life, you can get a more objective view to make changes to work or to find a way to be there without it owning you.
Is making these changes ‘easy’? NO, but I can tell you from personal experience that not working weekends, not obsessing about an email you may be missing, putting boundaries into practice with people who want too much of you, learning to breathe, look around and relax, and more importantly, knowing when to walk are easier than continuing with the insanity of doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Whatever it is that you ‘give’, it shouldn’t involve you compromising yourself further, because it’s having great imbalances that creates a loss in your life in the first place. It’s not like when your time is up on earth, you’re going to say “Feck! I really wish I’d spent more time busting my tail in shady relationships.”
Work, relationships, family, friends, they’re all important components of our lives, but if you compromise yourself so greatly in these areas that you lose yourself, you miss out on you in the process and ultimately you’re the critical component in your own life. If you want to be happy, you’ve got to know which lead weight habits, thinking, fears, and even people to drop or minimise in your life – what you should never drop is you.
I have found it hard to cope with someone who doesn’t see the imbalance as temporary when it clearly is to me. Kids are tough on any relationship and each of ours was a real burden on the marriage for about 3 years (at least!). But knowing it ends gave me strength to devote for that period.
For him, well maybe he just can’t multitask. He took the imbalance to a whole new level: he couldn’t give me any attention anymore it was all for the kids. Maybe that’s why it got him down so much but he wouldn’t do it differently with the next child.
I’ve heard if men who feel forgotten when their wife becomes completely focused on the baby. Well I had that and I’m the mother! I though it was temporary so I kept going. He thought it was permanent and gave up on us and had an affair.
Sunshine
on 22/06/2012 at 10:40 pm
*aaahhhh* big sigh of relief…
Not 5 minutes before I saw this post I had just let go of a huge weight on my mind.
A few shifts in my thinking this past week led to more assertiveness and demanding in my thoughts, and a burst of energy. Feeling the compulsion to sit down with the boy and “have a talk” with him next week, I busted out the iPod to record the whole entire conversation in my mind.
2 hours of variations of “I want you to think about what’s in it for you and how you could benefit by committing to me cuz I’m not going to try to convince you and those answers have to come from the inside,” later, I think I finally found a way to reach my inner EUM. Maybe I don’t need the exhausting drama king love interest to act him out for me anymore 🙂 Just the thought of talking to him one more time makes me heave.
Huge relief.
Next weight to toss: the exhaustingly tedious job, right after I get settled in my new place the next couple of weeks.
I want to share with y’all something interesting happened this past week. While I was lying in bed just relaxing, an old memory resurfaced of being punched in the belly by my father on my 10th birthday, at the dinner table in front of my best friend. This memory has been exquisitely painful and shameful, and I remember slinking off and being so ashamed and basically shutting my heart down and pretending not to be hurt but instead saying over and over how much I hated him.
This memory ran again for the nth time, but this time, so weirdly, spontaneously as the scene unfolded in my mind, instead of standing there shocked and stunned, it was as if I were standing there as an adult. I looked at him, rolled my eyes, and said, with a ‘ghetto’ attitude, ” Are you crazy? Did you REALLY just hit your OWN daughter? Are you RETARDED? Have you lost your damned MIND? Oh hellll no, you are gonna just sit there, and think about what you did.” I turned to my friend, and with a little neck roll, said to my friend, “come on, girl, let’s go play while this fool sits here and learns some damned respect.”
I couldn’t sleep for HOURS because I couldn’t stop giggling, I laughed and laughed and laughed, it was amazing how free and relaxed I felt. I realized somehow I had been stuck in my mind in that moment, as if I were still that little girl and that was still happening.
So, to relate it to the…
Sunshine, I just wanted to say thank you for causing me to laugh very loudly and that I must write something on this subject because I’ve been through something similar and I know quite a few others that have. It’s called Parents Who Fuck Up Your Birthday’s (& Possibly All Major Holidays) or Envying Your Child. Let’s just say that every birthday from 13-18 and a couple in early childhood, most Christmases, Mother’s Day, Easter and National Curry Week (joke on the last one). The other reason why it happens is they likely had very bad childhoods themselves. I had ‘forgotten’ about some of these experiences, which used to cause a great deal of shame, but after reading your comment, I wept laughing and said “Who the fuck throws their child out on every birthday 6 years in a row? That shit ain’t right!”
Sunshine
on 24/06/2012 at 2:02 am
I feel gratified that it was contagious….I’m *still* laughing about it and am giggling away at your story.
I thought of it again today and nearly spewed water out of my nose…it’s amazing how much energy gets tied up in shame! Today I visited with a friend who I haven’t seen for a month who kept commenting how much lighter I seemed.
*more sighing*….such a relief.
teachable
on 24/06/2012 at 9:50 am
What about Parents Who Fucked Up Your Entire Childhood? No wonder I’m a tad behind the eightball with certain developmental milestones (study mainly). At 43 yo I’m STILL playing ‘catch up’ (and yes – it’s EXHAUSTING)!!!! LOL
cc
on 24/06/2012 at 4:32 pm
sunshine, nml, everybody-
wow, this is like a tonic, an internal cleanser!
i’ve had moments like yours, sunshine, in which i relived a horrific memory but calmly turned the tables on my aggressor. but yours made me feel this all over again.
how many days, not just birthdays and holidays, but every damn day, did my father make me wish i’d never been born? and don’t i need to just shove off the leftover weight from that?
and i don’t i need to shove off the remaining weights from the ex-EUM?
aaaaahhhhh!!!
thank you! thank you.
Sasasarah
on 22/06/2012 at 11:25 pm
Amazingly powerful to re-experience trauma, but on your terms! Thanks for sharing!
Broadsided
on 24/06/2012 at 6:23 am
My heart feels for you guys, and applaud you for finding ways process this hurt and get on with life.
My ex husband had/has a bad temper. For our daughter’s 16th birthday he entered the Parents Who Fuck Up Their Child’s Birthday hall of fame by buying her a beautiful bouquet of flowers, and then a couple of hours later throwing it at her during one of his little fits of rage. (I’d moved out by then, and she came to live with me for 2 months, not speaking to him during that time.) He threw a handful of shrimp at her once since he didn’t like the way she was looking at him. Etc., etc. Just stupid, unbelievable things – no physical hitting, but just verbal abuse, and throwing and smashing things. Right now my daughter just wants to bury these memories – she is basically doing fine as an adult on her own. EXCEPT – she has a pattern of dating men who are not very nice or respectful to her, which makes me sad. She and I are talking about this and I believe she is seeing the light. Maybe one day she can process her past the way you guys have. I was lucky enough to grow up with respectful, kind and good parents – the kind of behavior I’ve seen in the “real world” from people is shocking.
@Sunshine – almost like a verbal “unsent letter”!!! Good for you.
Elle
on 25/06/2012 at 2:33 am
So glad you shared this Sunshine! This helped me understand why I don’t get nearly as much anxiety around my parents, esp my Dad, as I used to.
I too just started seeing him as a bit of a weirdo, and began laughing about some of his crazy and abusive habits (like standing on my foot or pinching the back of my arm so that I could not leave a confrontation with him – and this was right up til my early twenties!).
When I was little I used to focus on my hatred for him, and the injustice of his treatment of me, and, similarly, I couldn’t actually say to him or myself that I was hurt. For fair reasons – there did not seem any recourse anyway so expressing hurt seemed futile and weak – I was just consumed with this sense of him being such a d*ckhead, but, of course, as a child, I would then have to doubt this – because parents are perfect – and turn it on myself. Now I don’t. Now I just think, I was right at the time: what a d*ckhead!
I also now see him as older and changing, and let him have his own battles. It’s separate to me. I feel like I made it through something that is not real or present anymore.
But, to bring it back to this post, I completely agree about needing to lose the deadweight, and that this deadweight might not actually be the thing you imagine it to be (other sources of stress trigger old sources of pain). I know 100% – actually, it happened this weekend – that when I put all this pressure on myself to achieve at work and in my other projects and declare some sort of deadline for when I must have amassed a certain amount of success (even though I am already doing more than fine) and when I stop giving myself at least one day off to rest and do very little (as distinct from when I say it’s a day off, but I still spent the day worrying about things or frenetically feeding myself information via books, newspapers and documentaries) then the past seems so much more interesting and powerful: childhood stuff, AC stuff, other things I felt bad about.
It’s actually an adult thing to look after yourself and to recognise that sleep, exercise and whimsical, unplanned play are central to this. It then, in turn, becomes much easier to see what has to be dropped from life, instead of just madly persisting with the obstacle course: jump those garish career-hoops, avoid that massive plastic childhood hammer, have another go at swimming through the AC-windmill!
Beth
on 22/06/2012 at 10:50 pm
This is tremendous, and just in the nick of time, before I totally burned out. Since letting go of my (EU) ex last year I have placed the most immense pressure on myself to succeed in all other areas of my life, and keep my mind off that a***ehole, and how he treat me, I have run myself down, reeeally badly, hanging in there and working so hard at a job I hate, gymming myself to death 5 times a week, progressing my baby horse’s training, making sure I keep all my friends and family happy, even just keeping a smile on my face so the perception of me is an improvement upon the emotional wreck I was last year….
…so Last night I collapsed, I’ve been off work today. I’m floored.
In the words of Ferris Bueller – “Life moves pretty fast, if you dont stop and look around once in a while you might miss it”… Thank you so much Nat. Time to chill and reflect methinks…x x
lo j
on 22/06/2012 at 11:56 pm
Wow … and I used to feel bad because my parents never acknowledged my birthdays. My mother always said I was too sensitive. Lol!!!
Amy H
on 23/06/2012 at 12:24 am
Wouldn’t you know that not even 5 minutes before seeing this post I had to take a stand. I was temporarily staying with a gay male friend. He literally locked me out of his house so he could have sex. Before he did I asked him if I could get my things (so I could go). He wouldn’t let me and said for me to just give them a few minutes. I was outside for 20 minutes or more. As his weekend delight left I went in to grab my things. Told him that our friendship was clearly not one with respect or trust. He said he had to just have sex with the man right then and there. I said I couldn’t have gotten my things? He said he had to and he doesn’t feel he is wrong. I told him this is not about right or wrong. And then left without a word.
“When people show you who they are, believe them” Maya Angelou
Anne
on 23/06/2012 at 12:40 am
Oh god, I need to do this. I just had the most horrible evening…having the first guy I DARED to be intimate with after my self esteem robber EUM ex, send me a big long message about how he didn’t feel a relationship could progress and how he didn’t fancy me etc!!!! I just felt like dying!!! One of the big reasons he said was that I still appeared hurt by my ex…I guess that’s a weight I need to drop..wish I knew how..
But goodness..I didn’t see how this guy’s message was necessary. I wanna hide in my bed forever!!!!!!!!!
Natasha
on 24/06/2012 at 6:24 pm
Awwww Anne, so sorry that happened! This may very well be (to steal a phrase from Nat) your Epiphany Moment. Notice he didn’t say there was anything “wrong” with you, his issue was about you being hung up on your ex. Here’s how you drop it: Just. Drop. It. Seriously. I’ve been there and I finally was just like, “You know what? I’m done with feeling badly about this.” and you know what? I was. Right then and there. Don’t let this episode derail you – sometimes a great change is started with a good cringe. Hope this helps!!
Allison
on 25/06/2012 at 6:05 pm
Anne,
Why did he think you weren’t over the ex?
Shirish
on 23/06/2012 at 1:23 am
Natalie, I just want to say thank you for your knowledge, experiences, and testimonies. You’re a major blessing.
tired_of_assanova
on 23/06/2012 at 1:32 am
I’m posting a little less frequently, as I’ve recovered – it’s not 100% recovery, more like 98% back, the other 2% is probably going to be a scar.
I like the term ‘firefighting’
I’ve spent most of my life ‘firefighting’ because there really was no other choice for me. I grew up in the line of fire, escaped domestic violence and had to fight that fire and keep it under control from consuming my life, then I had EUMs to deal with, study to get the ticket for my independance and a job to pay for myself and food, yes it has come at MASSIVE personal and social cost over the last 7 years, but the reality is that there was no alternative then, I just had to SURVIVE.
In the last 6 months, my life has finally started to look up. I have a job and money and while I haven’t got the full stability I wanted, it is stable enough to feel safe and enjoy myself.
A lot of things need to be dropped from my life and I need to relax and stop being so rigid.
sm
on 23/06/2012 at 12:46 pm
Tired, I miss all your quips but I am happy that you have recovered. Sometimes when we start to heal (and I can only speak for myself here), it is necessary to be rigid. Not to keep other people out but to keep our own selves in check because we havent done a good job at honoring our boundaries. I was just thinking as I was laying in bed this morning that feeling like we are on stable ground is the main key to happiness, whether in a relationship or job/financially.
Magnolia
on 23/06/2012 at 2:58 am
I need to pick up some weight on the relationship side, I think. As a single person in her late 30s, many friends are occupied with family when they’re not working, and it is a challenge to find enough activities and time with good friends to balance out work.
Intimacy is spending time together in day-to-day things, and I find it hard to create that. This period in my life right now, as I finish a PhD while starting a new job, is going to be super busy with work and super light on the relationship side, as I’ll be in a new town. But taking care of me means doing my best to provide myself that balance.
isabel
on 23/06/2012 at 12:41 pm
Congratulations on your ph.d.! And the new job!
I’ve been in your situation and its easy to get swallowed alive by the demands of a career. What worked for me is that always had pets who followed me everywhere I moved. It made it at times a bit more complicated to find apartments and a bit of a financial commitment when traveling with them and boarding them but it really brought me balance. I had to go back home to walk the dogs and feed the cats, I had company over the week-end, I joined kennel clubs to do fun stuff with the puppers. And as a bonus, the dogs were always a great conversation opener with all kind of other people (and yes, guys) who also were dog nut like me. My philosophy was that if the job does not even allow me to keep a dog, then its just not worth it, the sacrifices were just outweighing the benefits. It might not be a pet for you, but I think its important to have something we are committed to beside work and that is non-negotiable. My daily walk with the pups was pretty much sacred and kept me fit and sane. With guys, I had that guideline that if they cant understand why the dogs are so important to me, and they cant respect it, than they cant understand me anyway, and over time, they will ask me to give up on many other things that matters to me so I become , and excuse the pun, their bitch. It does not have to be a pet, it can be your circle a friends, your knitting club, your church, but I believe we all need our boyfriend, work free zone. But since I was moving around, the pets is what worked for me as I could not really ask my friends to relocate in the boondocks for my sake. And now that I am moving, divorcing and starting a new job, guess what is following me? Of course, one of the pup (the other is daddy’s boy).
Natasha
on 24/06/2012 at 6:19 pm
Congrats Mag!! 🙂 I’m in a similar mode right now – the crappy economy is making me reevaluate my career and, maybe I can’t multitask, but I don’t feel like adding dating to the mix at the mo. I so hear you – four of my good friends just got married and I dealt with the same issue of finding time with them when they were very busy planning their weddings. I have no doubt you’re going to meet some awesome people in your new town – awesome attracts awesome, so you’ll be just fine!
Magnolia
on 25/06/2012 at 2:39 am
Thanks Isabel – I’ve considered the dog, a very little bit. I have figured I’m too unstable for a dog; huh – I feel lately that I’ve felt that I’m always “not quite ready” to get into any big commitment – like a dog – don’t know how I expected to attract a partner looking for commitment when I can’t even fathom a pet. The fact that lately I think I might be able to handle the dog, even as I move around in life, means change!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Natasha! Btw, your quip about the plastic surgeon suggesting botox made me choke on MY diet coke. Say no to immobilbrow!
Kerry
on 23/06/2012 at 4:21 am
You may be devoting your life to extricating yourself out of a relationship but battling with your own feelings (and theirs) and putting so much energy into trying to avoid contact, dealing with your super-busy ruminating, if not damn near obsessing mind, that next thing you look up and months or even a year or so has gone by.
Wow. I really needed this post. Thank you.
This paragraph especially sums up my year of torment, and the time wasted. It’s starting to sink in that I need to shift focus onto my own life if I’m going to stop the obsessing. I obsess over the obsessing, it’s become so bad. I have to stop the insanity!
button
on 23/06/2012 at 8:06 pm
this is EXACTLY the paragraph that hit home for me. that is totally what I do!
Marianna Miaow
on 24/06/2012 at 12:11 am
And a big ditto from me too, a whole year of total obsessing! That is a whole lot of days given over to some jerk I havent seen in a year! Am trying to learn the lesson, and like you say, shift the focus and be accountable – while hiding out in the obsession bubble I was protected from dealing with my life and my future unknowns, it has played a useful role in that sense and now its time to get brave…no idea where to start but know I have to!
Kerry
on 25/06/2012 at 4:10 am
That’s also a whole lot of days for a guy who didn’t even really love me! Never mind the two years I spent with him. Sometimes, when I want to give myself a wake up call, I say to myself, “You’ve officially been thinking every day about a man who did not love or care about you for 3 years, 2 months and X number of days… ” It really puts it in perspective. It also makes me feel like I really need to get on with my life because this is getting pathetic! Seriously! Enough’s enough!
runnergirl
on 23/06/2012 at 5:31 am
Natalie and ladies, I’m in a wacky and wonderful spot. After a year and change on men-o-pause, living through the darkness of being an OW, and a ton of work on me thanks to Natalie and the wonderful BR community, I signed up on an online dating thingy. I swear to god, it’s been the most incredible experience for me as I’ve been practicing everythingsinglething I’ve learned on BR. I am amazed and I’ve learned so much. I have boundaries for the first time in my life. Although, I let two bad dates drag on, and on. I recognize now that there was a moment when I could have exited, gracefully. Boundaries Runner. So I just spoke via telephone (cos i won’t text) with this totally nice guy. After just one dinner last night, he wants me to come to his house on the beach. He has bought my favorite candy and can hardly wait. I suggested we meet for brunch on Sunday instead. He agreed. These guys seem way more invested,. So tomorrow evening, I meet another guy for drinks. He is WAY smart , has a totally cool job, but has this long hair thing. Yikes, either they have long hair or they are bald? i hate to be so superficial after all the pain.
Natasha
on 24/06/2012 at 6:15 pm
Yeah Runner!!! I’m so happy for you lady 🙂
runnergirl
on 25/06/2012 at 1:16 am
Thanks so much Natasha. It’s really amazing though. It’s like the FBG baggage/weights are just lurking in the corner waiting to jump back on. I can totally understand now why I ended up as a FBG/OW/OPTION. I’ve been practicing “mindfulness” being totally present with myself, and I see so much. One guy spent a good portion of the evening telling me about his crazy ex (RED FLAG) and all about how humans evolved from apes (we didn’t–I just lectured on that topic in the morning). I was going to give him a second chance because of his appearance but came to my BR senses quickly and flushed. Another guy also led the evening with how he sued his crazy ex for custody and won. Didn’t have to think for a moment. But’s here’s the craziest part, one totally handsome guy (with hair, not gray), responded to my profile in a coherent, thoughtful manner. It was clear, he was only looking for casual dating. But I swear to honest god, after all I’ve been through with the casual crap and being 100% committed to a LTR, I paused and heard myself thinking, “I’ll bet I can turn him around”. I hit delete so fast I’m sure his computer exploded. It’s been fascinating seeing the world through my new BR lenses and seeing that even though I’ve done a ton of work, my FBG habits are very deeply internalized. The nice guy, who bought my favorite candy and invited me to his house for the second date (too fast), was a bit cool this morning at brunch. But again, the FBG tendencies wanted to go to his house, play frisbee on the beach and drink Bloody Marys. But, thanks to you all, I knew where that would lead! When does the FBG baggage stay in the cargo hold? When do these weights permanently go away?
sm
on 25/06/2012 at 11:36 am
Runner, I hand it to you. Even though I’ve been a fan of online dating, I just do not have the stomach to wade through all the crap at this time. I have been meeting guys in person but there are draw backs to that as well, I keep running into them even after it doesnt work out. I have to laugh, I ran into two of them this weekend (including one I didnt go on a date with because he blocked his number) and one last weekend. Awkward! I joked to my friend that I have never once run into the guys I met online, even when they live a few miles from me.
But you are right, it is really difficult to drop the FBG ways. I am learning more and more that it is more who needs to be watched, not them.
Researchgirl
on 23/06/2012 at 6:12 am
I have just rid myself of the second and last EUM in my life
The first ruined EVERY Christmas of our marriage, the only day of the year he stayed in bed, he would hide under the doona until after the kids had opened the presents, making us all so sad and mad
Came out of that into an 18 month non-relationship with MM who sabotaged two birthdays in a row
Enough enough enough dead weights to sink an ocean liner
HS
on 23/06/2012 at 6:56 am
Natalie, this is the “killer” post, you are spot on again, thank you so much. All your described, so familiar.
1) I hate my job, as it is underpaid, not my field (with my two degrees) , but because it is convenient for the time being, and I just not bother to look for new one…I know I must study more, as I want to do completely different thing in my grand age of 40! BUT scared to change and think it is too late to turn my life around, so I am accepting to be miserable and deeply unhappy!!!
2) My personal life – rid of one Assclown, met the second one, yesterday rid of him too We had an amazing sexual relationship for three months, I did not push him, as he was saying ” lets see how it goes”…BUT yesterday, after night of passion, he told me: “Sorry I cant give you what you are looking for, I am recently divorced and my main issue is my 4 years old son, I want to concentrate on him but whatever you want sex, please call me”…I do not know what happened to me at that moment, but I just throw him out by saying: ” I am dumping you as you are not a person I am looking for and please delete my number and never contact me again” That it. DO you think I lost “weight” of this “relationship” and you think I feel better??? NO NO NO…Now I feel like, not only I hate my job, but now I am single and no one here even to hug me:-( I KNOW that it will be better for the long run, but now I feel so lost….I know I have to do something about my job and private life, but where to start first???
sm
on 23/06/2012 at 10:43 am
LOL hs, I think you’ve already started…on the personal life at least. I had the same problem last year, a job that gave me no joy and an azzclown I hung onto so I wouldnt be alone. At least you knowingly got rid of the ac, I didnt, he got rid of me. However I did go on to find a job that restored my joy, pocketbook and gave me a satisfactory shot in the arm. I’m still working on the personal life stuff but I am happy and you will be too.
Fearless
on 23/06/2012 at 4:00 pm
HS
You were worse than ‘single’ with this user. Focus on that. You’ve at least got shot of that dead weight of a as**ole. Good for you. Don’t back peddle on it – he needs to go so that you can do better for yourself. Make a plan of action – set out some goals and how you’re going to get there. Be clear with yourself about what you’re looking for in a relationship and do not accept crumbs from any man. That’s my advice for what it’s worth.
‘Call me whenever you want sex’ says he! Pfft. Yeah, right. Groan.
grace
on 23/06/2012 at 7:03 pm
HS
Good for you! Shelve the sex life for now. You can have emotional support without sex Look to friends, church, evening classes., dance classes etc. You’ll survive!
As for the job. Try to look on the bright side. At least you have one. Go in, do it, don’t stew over it, see if there is ONE colleague you can befriend. With everyone else, just treat it as a challenge to not let them get you down. Unless they really are seriously psychologically damaged, even the difficult, bitchy, scratchy people can be open to a short convo about the weather or the commute. See it as giving your boundaries a workout. Yes, I can talk to someone who is difficult and who I don’t even like very much and not fall apart!
In the meantime, keep looking and see what else is out there.
HS
on 23/06/2012 at 9:43 pm
SM, Fearless and Grace, I cant even tell you how grateful I am for your responses!
The Assclown sent me a message today, that I actually misunderstood him? ! What I did not understand, that he wants to have sex without being committed?! He apologized and now I am thinking if I should talk to him or not?!
Regarding my job, I work in the Bank and sometimes I have very unpleasant customers, my colleagues are very supportive, keep telling me “do not take it personally” but I DO…I have to say I am very sensitive person to any kind of remarks…
I remember NML’s article about sitting in the bench and looking how life is passing by, I am not going to do this anymore, I will start to change, step by step…Thank you for your words of wisdom!!!
grace
on 23/06/2012 at 10:21 pm
HS
“sent me a msg”. Please don’t start overvaluing the messaging and texting. it is only good for a laugh, basic info, and a back up to telephone calls and in person communication (when you can see someone with your eyes and touch them).
The fact that he’s sent a mere msg after being so offensive only confirms his EU-ness. If he called you I’d be slightly more impressed or if he took you out somewhere. Message? Blah to that. Ignore it.
PS Everyone, even top lawyers, have crappy clients and customers. Don’t take it to heart. Have a laugh about it with your colleagues. Stay calm.
sm
on 23/06/2012 at 11:31 pm
HS he’s only saying that because he’s lost his sex! Do not believe him, trust me you did not misunderstand him. If you go back now, you will spend some moments in bliss but he will go cold faster. As far as the job, I’m in sales and have been a long time, I had to learn to grow a thick skin. I always tell new sales people, I did not pop out of the womb this way, I learned it by trial and error and you will too.
tired_of_assanova
on 25/06/2012 at 1:35 am
Sounds like you’re over capacity. Cut the guy and DON’T DATE ANYONE until you are ABSOLUTELY CLEAR of this mess. Sounds like you’re on rebound!
HS
on 25/06/2012 at 9:28 am
Yes, you are right TOA, this is rebound. YES, I was not ready to meet anyone, but still I went for it, as I wanted to forget AC number 1 and started to date AC number 2 after only four months! I even told him that I was in love with AC and was grateful that he helped me move on. I was wrong as now my all thoughts about this guy and not the first one. How messy and confusing:-(
tired_of_assanova
on 25/06/2012 at 10:47 am
Don’t feel bad. In the weeks after my non-break up, I went to date 2 more people and it was awful. They only lasted 2 dates thankfully.
When I asked ‘what do you look for in someone’ and I got ‘oh, common interests, etc etc’ I just felt horrible.
I couldn’t believe how long it took me. Well thankfully that will be the LAST time won’t it.
rana
on 23/06/2012 at 1:32 pm
Nice post
Learner
on 23/06/2012 at 2:15 pm
“your fears, unhealthy beliefs, doubts, insecurities, and habits, plus at times, shady/draining people – lead weights – end up eclipsing your ability to be happy and get the most out of your life.”
Natalie, I am so grateful for these words today. I have been struggling with ending a relationship with a MM/AC. I had been with him for 3 years, and we seemed to be getting very, very close emotionally so I gave him a deadline to decide if he was going to do what was needed to get out of his marriage so we could be together, or to let me go as I could not live with the pain of sharing him. Over the last 2 years, he had become more and more communicative, told me I was the first person to “open his heart and feel true love” and that he felt like he was “home” when we were together. I always had a niggly feeling that he was hiding something from me though, and I found that out a few weeks ago. He had another lover for more than a DECADE (a friend of his wifes) and had coffee with her that morning!!! I was devastated and never wanted to talk to him again. He said they didn’t have much of a relationship any more, and were no longer intimate. He cried for hours and almost begged for us to stay friends, so I agreed. He broke up with the other person via email which I saw him send (he said he had been trying to break up with her for years but didn’t want to hurt her and was unable to do it in person). We have become such a huge part of each other’s lives. It has been tough being friends as I have a lot of anger and can’t trust anything he says! We are going to a concert tonight, as we got the tickets months ago and it’s a big name band. But he has been quite cold with barely any texts, ignoring my last 4 texts even though we are seeing each other today! He is continuing to make me feel more bad than good. I know he is a lead weight that I should get out of my life, but not sure how to make the final cut. If anyone has suggestions, I would be most appreciative. Thanks.
Fearless
on 23/06/2012 at 3:44 pm
Learner
you are dealing with a cowardly man, a cheat and a liar. You are invested in what you think is potential. But there is none. Before you know it another 8+ years will have passed and you’ll be third fiddle getting dropped by email. Read Nat’s books that you can download from BR. The only way to move to is to do it – take the first essential step by cutting him right off (NC). Only then will the fog begin to clear. Right now you can’t see the woods for the trees. Married men are NOT available. Read Nat’s post ‘no such thing as an honest cheat’ and related posts. Give it up before you end up trying to scrape your self-esteem off the floor.
Polly
on 23/06/2012 at 7:00 pm
Totally agree with Fearless, my ex horrid married person tried to relegate me to third place after I waited 2 years in vain to get promoted to first. I feel for you I really do and maybe putting yourself in the shoes of the woman dropped after 10 years might give you the push you need. You know you can no longer trust him so where do you have to go with this man? He is a coward – let him live his sad cowardly life without you being dragged down by it. Move on, prepare yourself for some short term pain, recovery, discovery and a fantastic future 🙂
Learner
on 23/06/2012 at 9:11 pm
Thank you Polly. I don’t feel quite as shameful knowing that others have been caught in a married person’s web of lies and other. other people on the side. You ask a good question – where do I have to go with this man? The obvious answer is nowhere! I am leaving to go to the concert with him right now, though, and I will keep your ideas and those of others top of mind as we spend the evening together. This will give me strength if he tried to pull me back in to anything physical with him.
grace
on 23/06/2012 at 6:51 pm
Learner
You do it by doing it. You need to realise you have been deluding yourself.
Your excuses are trapping you and you need to drop them:
“I have been with him” you weren’t with him, you were having an affair. You can’t be with someone who’s married to someone else
“we seemed to be getting very close emotionally” I doubt that. Sex, crying, drama, or even lovey-dovey talk isn’t the same as being close. Free yourself, and one day you will know what true closeness is.
“I gave him a deadline” no you didn’t, you’re still there
“Over the last 2 years he had been more communicative” When I saw the “2” I expected it to be followed by “months” or “weeks” not YEARS. that’s a hell of a long wait for a flippin concert with a “friend” you’re mad at and don’t trust, and who’s ignoring you to boot!
“We have become such a huge part of each other’s lives” – how so? You’ve been one of THREE women (that you know about)
“begged for us to be friends so i agreed” Please muster whatever pride you have left and don’t let this cowardly crying cheating man baby jerk you around anymore. YOU ARE NOT FRIENDS.
Learner
on 23/06/2012 at 8:02 pm
Fearless and Grace,
You have really given it to me straight here, and I thank you for that. I hadn’t thought of “third fiddle” before but it is the ugly truth. Although he has started returning my texts (said he’s been busy running errands) it is really pretty pathetic really, isn’t it, that whether he texts or not can have me switching from weepy to elated in a matter of minutes. Grace – we have become a large part of each others lives in that we were texting from morning to night, seeing each other at least once a week, sharing thoughts, what happened during our days, sunrises, sunsets, hopes, dreams….and, I suppose, illusions. I feel we know each other so well. Hmmm, except I didnt know about the other other person, and it has been hell trying to process and make sense of the last 3 years knowing she has been a part of it, at least at first. I sensed another person, and asked many times, but he denied firmly, and told me I “had to trust him”. As I look back, I can see many times I KNEW something didnt add up, but he fibbed over and over again. He said it was so I didn;t get hurt! He says he doesnt want to hurt anyone, but now knows he has hurt at least three (me, him, the other OP). We bought the concert tickets last November, for tonight’s show. I did give him a deadline, yes – the end of June. We have a dinner reservation next week to discuss “our” decisions. That is the last date I have planned with him. I think what I say may change now, as I take in all of what Natalie and you have said. I know in my head he is not good for me. When I see him, he seems so vulnerable and friendly and familiar – I lose my resolve to be mad at him. Lots to think about – and I must download the book you mentioned, and read the post on honest cheats. Thanks again!
grace
on 23/06/2012 at 9:47 pm
Learner
before you go on even a final date with him, do remember he has a wife.
It’s never too soon to NC a married man.
Lilly
on 24/06/2012 at 7:55 am
Learner – Great advice from Polly, Fearless and Grace. I was also involved with MM/AC now renamed CHB (cold hearted b…….d) in my journal. I can relate to your experience of switching from weepy to elated depending on whether he texts or not. Why on earth do we give them the power to do this especially when we know they are lying to us, making us feel bad and messing with our heads? With the help of BR I’m starting to process all the pain and sort my life out. As Fearless says “give it up before you end up trying to scrape your self-esteem off the floor”. That’s exactly where I’m at now. I wish you lots of luck.
Learner
on 24/06/2012 at 4:55 pm
Thank you Lilly. Yes, I have been trying to process it all too, and it’s so tough to find the sense in it all. I must take his power away to affect me so profoundly.
Learner
on 24/06/2012 at 5:50 pm
I know I must go NC. He admitted last night to being a coward (as Fearless said) and having “no follow-through” when it comes to relationships. I think I must be a coward too, as when I think of not having that last dinner with him, it makes me feel panicky for some reason. I guess I just want closure in the form of a “final discussion”. Then NC starting right after the dinner.
runnergirl
on 23/06/2012 at 10:56 pm
Hi Learner,
I’m so sorry you are in this situation. Your story sounds exactly like my two year stint as an OW (except the other, other woman-that I know of). We were s**lmates, best friends, and saw one another 3 to 4 times a week. I’d like to suggest that between now and the end of June, you may want to read, read, and read everything Natalie has posted about “affairs”. And I strongly recommend her books as well. I made such a big deal of the “texting from morning to night” too. It’s crumbs. The reason why MM’s text their mistresses is because they are busy living a life with their wife and yours seems to be very busy leading at least three lives. I notice you mention that: “He says he doesnt want to hurt anyone, but now knows he has hurt at least three (me, him, the other OP).” Err…what about the woman he is married to? I conveniently “forgot” his wife too, until she put a tail on him and caught us. Then she became very, very real. You also mention that he “fibbed” over and over again. Seriously? He’s lying to his wife, to you, and to the other woman. He’s a liar. I remember the day I read Nat’s article “There’s No Such Thing As An Honest Cheat” and realized he had to be lying to me as well as his wife. Even if he decides to leave his wife (my bet is the goal post will shift), would you want to spend the rest of your life with this baggage? Talk about out of whack. The MM is a ten ton weight. I didn’t realize how heavy a load I was carrying until I finally committed to NC with the help of Natalie and the BR community. Special thanks to Nat, Fearless, Grace, and the others who stuck by me while I struggled. Learner, spend some time thinking about whether you want to spend the rest of your life with a cheater who cheats on his wife, his mistress, and his other mistress. Who knows where you actually fit within his harem. “When I see him, he seems so vulnerable and friendly and familiar…” You are in deep girl just like I was. After a year and change of getting rid of my ‘life sucker”, I am MUCH happier. Send this life sucker back to his wife and his other mistress. Get your life back in whack. Hugs to you. I’ll be here for you.
Learner
on 24/06/2012 at 5:05 pm
runnergirl – yes, yes, you are right, he is hurting his wife too – WE have been hurting his wife even though he says she has no idea he has been unfaithful. You are right – he his a very heavy lead weight indeed. I don’t think I could ever trust him to be faithful. I saw him last night at the concert, and we had a few drinks, and there was some hand holding and a kiss goodnight. He told me he loves me and was in denial about us ending our relationship. I feared he would start with the mushy texts today, after the “high” of the concert, but instead he just told me that his wife had put 2 pillows on the couch for him when he got home, and had hidden some of his things! He told me as if it was an inconvenience to him and was complaining about her response. He seemed to have no remorse for making her that angry. He also didnt mention me, or the concert, just about the crappy start to HIS day!!! What a self-absorbed idiot! It really brought home for me that yes, his wife is very real, and is obviously hurting. I texted back thanking him for pointing out the negative effects of our deceit, and told him we could cancel our final dinner date next week – he just has to give me the word. I dont want to hurt any more, I dont want to cause hurt any more. I need to clarify my values and get rid of this life sucker!
Polly
on 24/06/2012 at 6:38 pm
Learner, Why does HE have to give the word to cancel the date? YOU can make the decision and take control of things. You are still giving him the power. Sorry I see it because I’ve done it myself. You will not get a decent relationship out of this man. You know this. Be strong.
runnergirl
on 25/06/2012 at 7:27 am
Wow Learner and ladies, you all made me revisit my complicity in the deceit, again. It’s like a led weight that still has a message for me. Learner, you are way ahead of where I was when I finally acknowledged he had a real bona fide wife. Who the freck cares how “cold” the real wife is. They don’t have any remorse for what they put their wife through or what they put their mistress through. It’s just another crappy start to HIS day. So been there. It must be hell when your wife and mistress is pissed off. Okay Learner, you know you have to ditch this led weight. It will hurt like hell when you go NC. But it won’t hurt like the hell you are going through now. Once I clarified my values, I kicked my arse around my backyard until my neighbors made me stop. The only way out of the hurt is NC. So, so, so sorry. I have been there. I’ll be there for you. Tons of hugs. It totally sucks big time.
Allison
on 25/06/2012 at 6:21 pm
Learner,
I’m sorry, but why does he have to give you the final word?
There is no future with this man, as he has shown you that he will never be trustworthy. Are you not one of four women he is intimately involved with!
Are there children involved in this?
Learner
on 25/06/2012 at 7:51 pm
Allison. You and others ask a great question. Why should HE give the final word? I WAS one of three women he was intimately involved with (says he hasnt slept with his wife for 10 years, but had another OW all that time). When I found out a few weeks ago about the OOW, I stopped being intimate with him, he broke up with OOW, and now we are now “just friends”. I can see now that he is not my friend. I am working on the wording of an email in which I will cancel that last dinner myself. And then start NC. If he is being honest about the sexless marriage and breaking up with OOW, then it seems he is intimate with no one right now. Hmmm, I like that thought!!! He doesn’t know what true, emotional intimacy is anyway! And I have to work on realizing that for myself, too.
Allison
on 26/06/2012 at 2:12 am
Learner,
It is so common for a man to say he is not getting any from the wife. I mean how many women would have an affair if they they thought he was still intimate with the with. There is no chance of a future.
I
think you really need to dig deep to understand why you got involved with a MM, and why it took two other OW to motivate you to make some changes. This is nuts! I would also ask, why you would believe his new story about the other women, as there has been a continuos string of lies ?
Please get yourself tested, as this man’s behavior has been very risky!
Nikki
on 25/06/2012 at 8:29 pm
“I dont want to cause hurt any more. I need to clarify my values and get rid of this life sucker!”
don’t wait for dinner. Go NC like, NOW.
There is no happy ending coming up, there is just the one of power: where YOU OPT OUT NOW.
Magnolia
on 24/06/2012 at 12:14 am
Learner, as you read through the posts, you might look at the one that talks about “texting all day and night” being a deceptive feature of non-relationships. One of our long-time BR members was getting texts every day waking her up and tucking her in with sweet nothings … what does it amount to in the end? Crumbs, as NML says. Some guy sneaking to the bathroom in the am to text you so his wife, whom he actually woke up next to, doesn’t see – Puh-leaze.
And you may find that one of the most mind-effing realizations, once you break it off, will be to see and spot the fake vulnerability these guys muster up.
They’re great actors, and usually believe their own hype, but in my experience, attached guys often play the poor-me, I-need-true-understanding card – they are masters at tugging on the maternal/caregiving instincts. The justification for being a lying shit is almost always “not wanting to hurt her/you/the other her. What – she will be devastated by the loss of his noble self? Whatever. It’s cowardly behaviour, is all.
But funny how they feel most “understood” when they’re getting their need for outside dalliances met, not when their lying, self-deceptive, condescending behaviour is genuinely looked at for what it is and truly “understood.”
Go through the pain of going cold-turkey on your dependence on this affair. Be sad. Then get angry. And so on. You will be free and happy soon enough.
teachable
on 24/06/2012 at 10:14 am
Well said 🙂
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 11:29 am
Mags,
Very well said!
“And you may find that one of the most mind-effing realizations, once you break it off, will be to see and spot the fake vulnerability these guys muster up.” So true. So true.
Learner
on 24/06/2012 at 5:18 pm
Magnolia – your response gave me goosebumps as some of your ideas are what actually happens. He DID get up early to text me good morning from the bathroom, he DOES have a predictable way of seeming vulnerable – he has this facial expression reminiscent of a hurt child, and he kind of shrugs or slouches. And yes, he says his wife does not understand him and is cold. And now the other mistress is “becoming cold” too according to him. I said to him last night – well in 8 years from now, maybe you will think I am cold too, and will describe me as “baggage” like you describe your wife and other lover”. He said No, that would never happen. I am the only “special” person who understands him, apparently, and I have “changed him”. Yeah, yeah, I do realize the bullshit quality of all this. I am sick of all this crap. I do not exist to meet his needs or to be a “dalliance” (yuck!). I am gearing up to go NC next week, after this last dinner we have planned (unless he takes my suggestion and cancels it). Preparing now for the sad, angry, and then freedom and happiness.
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 11:51 pm
Is this “cold” wife that he describes as “baggage” the same woman that he grumbled to you about cos he she put him out of her bed and made him sleep on the couch? If these women are cold towards him it’s cos they *are* understanding him – only too well. And if you stick around, so will you, Learner, and he *will* eventually describe you as ‘cold’ because you will be. and with good reason. If you really understood him you would be running away, very fast. He knows this. He relies on you failing to understand him.
FX
on 25/06/2012 at 3:10 am
Wow. Just wow, Fearless! This is so spot on for many of our messed up situations.
“If you really understood him you would be running away, very fast. He knows this. He relies on you failing to understand him.”.
Learner
on 25/06/2012 at 12:38 pm
Grace, Fearless, Runnergirl, Researchgirl, Polly, Lilly, Magnolia, Marianna, Lilia, Natalie et al. Thank you so much for your advice. I am 90% sure I can cancel this “last supper” with the MM. Seeing the truth and sense in all your words is making me not want to see him at all, ever again (altho I have to, as we are on a committee together through work). I will be drafting up an email today to send him. Not sure how to word it quite yet. I will keep all your ideas in mind as I write it up. Thanks again, so much!
stella
on 25/06/2012 at 4:40 pm
they all they the same crap – that is why it works. i had two creatures like this(i did not know one was married in the beginning and the other had some “song and dance.”) looking back i am so ashamed of myself. THEY ARE MARRIED! by being with them we are complicit in creating a situation we ourselves would be DEVESTATED to be a part of(married to the oaf). If they want to date then they should get divorced – and quit being a coward. i don’t feel sorry for anyone involved in a situation like this – it is clear up front what you are getting into – in hindsight my actions repulse me. never, ever again. go NC on this fool!
simple pleasures
on 25/06/2012 at 9:41 pm
Stella, very interested in your post because I have read BR for months and
there are so many women here suffering, unhappy because they became emotionally invested in married men.
I have wondered through the months why would someone
even cross that line?
Are these women desperate for a man’s
attention? Do they even think about their choice to get involved
from a moral perspective, am I wrong to actively want to break up a marriage, devastate another woman. do these women see getting this despicable man as
something wonderful?
I understand the motives of a married man-wife is greyer heavier, predictable
and now boring, less sexy than years ago, new girl is ego inflating cute, sexy,
understands me….
But for the life of me I have no idea why a
single woman would
even go out for a coffee with a married man. It makes me sick in my stomach to know there are so many men and women out there playing this game.
A single woman and a
mm=heartache. Why do they set themselves up for it?
Baffles me. You have
been enlightened.
Good for you!
Polly
on 25/06/2012 at 10:48 pm
Hi Simple Pleasures, I’m puzzled as to why you are talking to one person about lots of people who are reading this blog. There are all sorts of reasons why women are attracted to attached unavailable men and Natalie has written at length about it. Also the women who post on here go a long way to trying to explain it and move on from it. I’m not condoning it at all but if you try and empathise rather than judge might help you understand.
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 12:14 am
Learner,
He was busy being *married* (or, for all you know, running errands like seeing the other other woman – again) The closeness you think you have with him is illusionary. You think it’s all closeness and togetherness; he’s fibbing his arse off all over the place. There’s nothing “close” about that. It’s called cheating and lying and cheating and lying and cheating and cheating lying some more. People do not lie there way into and through multiple simultaneous relationships in order to avoid hurting people! (heard it all before and it’s a load of bollocks). Also, there’s nothing close about texting. He’s texting because he is *married*. married. married.
Natalie talks a lot about the need for shared values in healthy progressing relationships. Maybe as an OW it’s time to ask yourself what your values are? Define them for yourself. are you living them? if not, why not? And his values? What are those do you think? (that should be obvious to you by now). What I think OWs are reluctant to admit in these OW/MM situations is that she does share his very dubious values; if she didn’t, she wouldn’t be there. I’m not being judgmental. I have been where you are. Am just trying to wake you up. Good luck, sincerely.
Lilly
on 24/06/2012 at 8:38 am
Fearless – your comment about sharing the MM dubious values hit a nerve and I totally agree. At the end of the day for whatever reason/justification I gave myself for the affair I did NOT consider his wife’s feelings. If I had I would not have continued. As an accomplice to the MM I trampled all over her life, and allowed him to trample all over mine (even though she is unaware of the affair). These are not my values and I will never, never be part of such a shady ‘relationship’ again. Lesson learnt, but what a painful way to learn it.
Researchgirl
on 24/06/2012 at 10:12 am
We let them live the illusion with us, my ex MM and I never spoke of the wife or uttered her name. We spoke about his son but never her. I am three weeks NC and when my mind wanders to him and “missing him” I force myself to think of her and silently think of her name, its my mental bucket of cold water
Makes me very ashamed about doing that to a sister, never ever again
Learner
on 24/06/2012 at 5:42 pm
Fearless – no, I am not living my values. It sounds like a contradiction right now, but I do value trust, love, integrity, honesty, and in being with the MM/AC, I am not living any of them. I think that’s why I wake each day with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. It has improved since I have stopped being intimate with him, but now that I think about it, it’ was there this morning, after I went to the concert with him as “friends” but still ended up upsetting his wife (he lied to her and said he was out with work friends, and arrived home at 130am to see pillows on the couch for him). I know I have been deluding myself, and sharing his dubious values. I am waking up to all this, thank you. During the dinner next week, I am going to tell him I do not want contact with him ever again (except we do have to see each other for work – but that can be kept “strictly business” from now on). Thank you for for your help and good luck wishes.
Marianna Miaow
on 24/06/2012 at 6:56 pm
Hi Learner, having read your posts today, I wonder why you are even thinking about going to dinner with this married man? What about the pillows on the couch? How will his wife feel when you go for dinner? I have been where you are Learner, and believe me the longer you leave it the worse and worse it becomes. Why not just go NC immediately? I fear you are spinning out your pain, better start your new AC life free TODAY! Mx
Lilia
on 25/06/2012 at 3:31 am
Learner, I agree with Marianna Miaow – what would be the use of another dinner with this man?
There doesn´t seem to be anything worth discussing with him, you already know how things stand.
You can´t win in this situation, the only thing you can do is get your dignity back – by not showing up. The MM has no respect for you – nor for anyone else in this setup except himself – so you can at least show him with your actions that you are worth more than the BS crumbs he is going to feed you on this dinner date.
Allison
on 26/06/2012 at 2:23 am
Spot on!
Kelli
on 23/06/2012 at 5:26 pm
Great post.
So in the last 19 months, I tossed the ex assclown and the bottle with him. Bastard loved using wine as coercion, his MO. As months passed, I saw a whole lotta unhealthy in my life in form of people, places and things. They ALL had to go. The biological pathological family is gone, the scapegoat (me) had left the building. I kicked my toxic friends to the curb. There were many. The only people I kept were my three sons and a daughter–oh yea, two of the daughter’s had to go too. One was with a flaming psychopath, the other is borderline, with predominant narcissistic traits. Oh yes…I am LOUD AND PROUD.
Because this had been lifetime behavior and habits (By the way, I can’t tell you how many holidays and birthdays were purposely destroyed by my pathological family and the two ex’s, just too many to remember!) I am doing something totally new. Engaging in ME. Saying NO. Had a guy ask me out recently. I picked up that he was an assclown within 24 hours and two chats. NEVER, EVER give a man your number when he demands it, rather than politely askin. Before awareness (I call it when I was hangin B.A’s) I would have given this man my phone number mistaking his lack of RESPECT and his DEMAND as FLATTERY and I wanna know you NOW girl! Um, no. So when he said to me, “You NEED to give me your phone number!” The first thing that came to mind was, “You NEED some manners!” He NEEDS to have my phone number? I did something new. I kicked his ass to the curb. You aren’t going to teach a man manners if he doesn’t have them and you’re definitely not going to teach them not to control you, Can you say BOUNDARY VIOLATION?
I didn’t doubt my choice. That’s how far I have come. And just one of the examples I could give, but there are many. It’s lonely, but it’s worth not having my ass wrapped up like a wiener in some ass clowns destruction menu.
But in all seriousness: I think it was divine intervention for awareness given this was my life story. A lifetime of abuse. I have severe PTSD, depression and chronic health problems that put the brakes on giving anymore of myself to anyone. If I didn’t stop, I was going to die and I knew it. Never think that your health cannot be seriously and even irreversibly affected, because it CAN. And there is not a gift more precious than your health IF YOU STILL HAVE IT. Some things will never be the…
teachable
on 24/06/2012 at 10:01 am
Paying attention. BIG round of applause!!!!
sushi
on 24/06/2012 at 1:46 pm
I`m impressed with you Kelli, and yes, Assclowns should carry a serious health warning !! And you don`t realise how much they can cost you until your health is seriously affected. I can vouch for that. You sound like a fighter and hope you will feel great soon.
button
on 23/06/2012 at 7:48 pm
not a regular poster, but definitely a regular reader of NML and BR. This one really hit home for me because I feel like I’m in transition. I went through a rough time personally about 2 years ago that through BR and counseling helped me realize some of the ways I wasn’t helping myself (low self-esteem, poor boundaries, people-pleasing tendencies), and have been working hard to correct those. Now I’ve recently had another breakup and I’m…nonplussed. I’m not broken, I’m not down on myself. I am sad about the loss of a partner, but I am not lost.
At times I have sudden hard moments where I think “I have been working SO HARD, where is my payoff?” And then I realize its right in front of me. This new freedom, this new mental calm. This ability to loss a relationship but not lose myself. I realize I am still used to having a “busy mind” full of “how do I fix this’ or “what did I do wrong?” that I almost feel a bit unsure of this new calm. Having a busy mind used to equate to “being productive,” but now I realize it was just a way to keep these relationships, etc feeling important, whereas I can just as easily just…let them (and the stress) go. Will my ex partner and I be friends? What is he thinking? Who knows. That’s not really my concern anymore, my concern is me. And I’m doing well 🙂
Tess
on 24/06/2012 at 12:43 am
Wow, Nat, and all of you, awesome post and comments – the most profound for me to date. I, too, have had a horrible week, a horrible year. One of being down, and lonely, and worked to death, at least that’s how it feels. I have been a year out from seeing my love, the MM. And so close to contacting him. Teetering on the edge of “if I make contact, it will feel so good” to “if he does respond, nothing has changed”. That in itself is depressing.
You know I too have had to give some I thought were my friends the boot. Cleaned most of the house with it. Few are left, and no best friends, only men who’ve stayed by my side, platonically (though one or two wish otherwise). I live rather remotely, work for myself, so it’s difficult to make new friends. And when I do they are so wrapped up in their men, they rarely come up for air! Could be worse, I suppose.
I needed a swift kick in the ass, Nat, and this is what the doctor ordered! I will read and re read it over the next couple of days. To wake up and know I’m blessed is what I long for, and what I know in my heart, it’s just hard to see through the cobwebs.
Thanks much all
blueberry girl
on 24/06/2012 at 1:49 am
Whatever it is that you ‘give’, it shouldn’t involve you compromising yourself further, because it’s having great imbalances that creates a loss in your life in the first place. It’s not like when your time is up on earth, you’re going to say “Feck! I really wish I’d spent more time busting my tail in shady relationships.”
Sitting here feeling wretched over making physical contact with my travelling alcoholic friend who has returned to my area for work. He greeted me with warmth, intimate kisses and hugs. He had been drinking for hours and continued to drink and as the night wore on, the conversation went from bad to worse.
In the guise of “being honest,” he talked about two women he “hooked up” with back home describing them both as “kids,” one an alcoholic, another with bi-polar disorder. Telling me he “loved” them, I was shown photos of both of them; one was a very young, shapely girl in a bikini. He is 38.
I felt sick to my stomach and humiliated, because, although I am attractive and look younger than my true age, I am not young and have a 20-year-old daughter who is probably around the age of those girls.
I recently had expensive and painful cosmetic surgery which I admit was to partially attract this much younger man so I am especially devastated by his actions.
All the while he was telling me how these girls know the score ~ they see him when he is in town, he goes on his merry way and they cheerfully accept the arrangement.
I am effing furious. The last conversation we had months ago, he claimed to want to settle down and needed to grow up. He claimed to have no ties, no girlfriends. We discussed having sex but that never materialized because of his impotence from alcoholism.
He has the ability to sleep with these women, I guess, although has been full of excuses when it comes to intimacy with me. A few posters have warned me about the unreliability of someone who drinks. Truly, it was like hanging with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
I care about this man but my obsession with him is destroying my mental health and self-esteem. This is definitely rock bottom for me.
I am shocked that he would be so hurtful and unfeeling. He is now living about eight miles from me and I am desperate to stop making contact.
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 12:25 pm
blueberry,
You have all the information you need to make the right choices for yourself. What are you waiting for? I was raised by a binge drinking, alcohol dependent father. I have been relationship illiterate until I found BR, but one thing I always avoided like the plague in a man is alcohol dependency – or any addiction – I have always recognised it instantly as a danger zone. Aside from his drinking, this guy sounds like a creep; disrespectful to you and to all women. He is the booby prize. Who wants to twist themselves into a pretzel for that?
blueberry girl
on 24/06/2012 at 1:09 pm
“You have all the information you need to make the right choices for yourself. What are you waiting for?”
Thank you, Fearless, for sharing the wisdom of your experience with your alcoholic dad.
It’s true, the more details I find out about this man, the worse he gets!
The fact that he is seeing two other very unhealthy women back home is a total turn-off. Who knows what kind of diseases he or these women are harboring? Yuk. I’m finally done.
But, I didn’t know. Now I do. Prior to this show and tell session, he dangled the promise of sex which never even remotely materialized. Thank God I dodged that bullet!
I feel like such a fool for being played & allowing him to humiliate and hurt me.
It’s interesting that you see him as disrespectful. Wasn’t he just being honest with me?
Harriet
on 24/06/2012 at 2:37 pm
blueberry girl, his disrespect is not about words. It’s about actions. Any information can be presented in a respectful way or a disrespectful way and ‘honesty’ can be an outright insult even if the fact is true. That’s not the point.
The point here is that the man you are talking about has DONE things that are intensely disrespectful to you and all women. Imagine a man who has recently talked gently and candidly to you about the possibility of sharing an intimate sexual relationship with you. Now imagine visiting him drunk and showing him photos of two much older, richer, screwed-up men you have just slept with, describing them as ‘sugar daddies’ and saying you loved them. Seriously, would you describe this as ‘being honest’ with the man who had offered you a relationship, or being incredibly insulting, as though there was nothing about him you respected?
Bail out now and congratulate yourself on having augmented your good looks in good time to find someone who deserves you 🙂
blueberry girl
on 24/06/2012 at 4:38 pm
Harriet, your opposing scenario really helps me understand why I feel so hurt and devastated.
I’ve accepted and excused his bad behavior for months because I truly felt deep down inside that I was too old for this man and undeserving of his attention, no matter how meager. He hit me right where my deepest insecurity and vulnerability lies as I near my 51st birthday.
You gals are helping me see it’s not a matter of age. His disrespectful, poor character (and of course, the drinking) make him unworthy of my care and kindness.
Thank you so much for your insight.
Natasha
on 24/06/2012 at 6:13 pm
Blueberry, I want to second what Harriet just said! Smart lady 🙂 Let me give you three little words of caution here: Plastic Surgery Moratorium. Seriously, I had some things done in my younger years and it’s very easy to think, “Hmmmmm, well maybe I’ll ‘fix’ this/that/the other too!” To wit: I recently saw my plastic surgeon about a scar on my arm. Bless his heart, he’s an excellent surgeon and a very nice man, but his face has become increasingly immobilised over the years. He suggested I might do with a little botox over the eyebrows. I thought it was ridiculous, since I’m 30. Also, I thought (again, bless his heart) “Homeboy, your face doesn’t move. I’ll go skydiving before I let you near me with a needle.” Recently, I’ve been feeling a little down because I’ve attended approximately 600 weddings in the past two months dateless. Oh, everyone wants to hook me up with their cousin/pastor/limo driver/dude in charge of passing around the shrimp cocktail. Last night I went to the final wedding of the season and I got home and thought, “MAYBE I SHOULD BOTOX MY EYEBROWS?!” I laughed and laughed at myself this morning, but you really do have to like you for you (just like someone you’re dating has to!). Congrats on ditching this fool!!
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 5:43 pm
Blueberry
you already knew he is disrespectful; you called it the “guise of honesty” and went on to say how unfeeling and hurtful you find it. These other young girls do not “know the score”. One of them has mental health problems, the other is an alcoholic. Neither are in any fit state to “know the score”. They are being exploited by an older man who knows how to play them (whether they realise it or not). He then tells you all about how he’s having sex with these two “kids”(!) who are around the same age as your own daughter, like he’s telling you, ‘now compete with that’ He sounds like a truly horrible manipulative man who needs a boot up the arse rather having his ego pumped up.
blueberry girl
on 24/06/2012 at 10:47 pm
As usual, Fearless, you are right.
I know he’s being extremely disrespectful and that this feels bad, but my judgement where he is concerned has become so skewed! The mind effery has me reeling and I’m questioning myself, so your comments and insight into the situation are very much appreciated.
I actually feel for the first time (yep, it took a while) that this man is not only a code red but outright dangerous. The thought of being in his presence, hearing his sob stories and excuses and knowing what I know now, turns my stomach.
I’m already having lightened moments where I’m feeling relieved & free from his toxic hold.
thank you, thank you, all the ladies who have helped with this!
Polly
on 25/06/2012 at 10:53 pm
BG,
Knowingly taunting someone who you have tantalised with the offer of sex with sexual exploits with other women IS disrespectful, believe me! I think you know what to do!
sm
on 24/06/2012 at 2:57 pm
You know what just dawned on me, this eu/ac people all think they are a prize. That delusion is not only perpetuated by the people they hook up with romantically but they already believe it themselves. I have a family member who is a drug addict, cant support herself, lost her kids because of it, who continuously self agrandizes on fb. She is overweight and lost most of her teeth, but she continuously post sexy pics of herself. She is only 23 yrs old! I watch all these men flirt with her and it spurs her on to think she is a grand prize. That is what we are doing when we put these men on a ‘pedestal and blow smoke up their butts’, they are not prizes anymore than this family member of mine. And I am telling myself this, if we step back and look at them for what they really are, then maybe we wouldnt get hooked up with them in the first place. Fearless you are right this guy is nothing but a disrespectfull azz.
blueberry girl
on 24/06/2012 at 6:33 pm
sm, I am marveling at the truth of your post.
Why on earth would he show me photos of his young chicks? To make me jealous? Trigger my competitive spirit? Prove what a stud he is (I personally have evidence to the contrary).
He MUST think he’s a prize if these young girls are pursuing him (as he said).
Natalie is so right; where one woman will say “Hell, no!,” there are more in line willing to put up with their shady behavior.
I’m out of this line waiting for the booby prize (love that, Fearless)
Lilia
on 25/06/2012 at 3:44 am
So true, sm!
But the funny thing is that they will pursue you more once you stop believing they are that special… probably to get another chance to climb back on that pedestal. So that is the only brief moment we are the ones in control – when they realise one of their harem ladies has escaped.
sm
on 25/06/2012 at 11:47 am
I know Lilia, I have already suffered the consequences of that one. That’s back when I thought them ‘coming back’ was flattering. Nope, not anymore.
Mymble
on 24/06/2012 at 5:04 pm
Blueberry girl,
I also am the daughter of an alcoholic and have an absolute horror of drinkers as a result. They actually disgust me. My mother threw him out as soon as she had the financial wherewithal. He was an academic and charming and I watched in disbelief as the women – all of them likeable, intelligent good people – processed through his life, he has had a number of marriages and LTRs but in the end all of these women admit defeat because with him the bottle always always came first.. His last marriage ended recently – she had stayed with him for many years for what reason I do not know, she was clearly angry and bitter for many years. perhaps their child. You would always be the other woman to the bottle. Save youself
Broadsided
on 24/06/2012 at 6:46 am
Thank you for this post today. I’m in a challenging situation – work and income-related. I’ve been working too much for too long, including weekends, for too little compensation. This is my lead weight which I’m committed to solving and casting overboard. It’s not an easy thing to do in this economy, but this post has put more wind in my sails. I must do it!! So easy to get sucked into a hamster wheel situation and then find it really hard to get off. And re income, it’s not like one can just stop working while finding new work. Wish I could.
Since the Future Faker and I broke up in March, I’ve not put any effort into meeting more men. Rather, towards solving this major job situation, finding bits of time for fun with good friends, reading posts and comments here to fortify myself and strengthen the house of my spirit before I try dating again, once I have the time. I liked the comment above about pets. I have such a dear and loving kitty that is my constant companion when at home.
Taking a break from dating has not been bad! It has also given me new perspective; looking back from a distance gives clarity. I realize that some of this guy’s friends were as disingenuous as he was. This stands in stark contrast to the friends I’m spending time with – real, bright, caring, down to earth, smart, fun individuals. I think I need a man with these traits.
Lilly
on 24/06/2012 at 9:00 am
Could I please request some advice from you wonderful ladies? In an attempt to get closure and start/restart NC is it ever a good idea to tell the AC what you feel/think? I mean to get it off your chest and then move on?
Researchgirl
on 24/06/2012 at 10:15 am
I tried a hundred times over until I got it through my thick head that he would never ever get it, because he lacks emotional depth.
As my Counsellor said “you would be very lonely if you ended up living with this man”
Polly
on 24/06/2012 at 12:38 pm
Lilly,
I don’t think it is ever a good idea to tell them what you feel once you have got behind your decision to cut contact. You will get closure when you process what has happened and accept it. You won’t get that from them you get it from yourself. I’ve drafted all sorts of emails and thought about contacting my ex to tell him how I feel but then I stop and think what my motives are. It is always about trying to get validation from them. Either, look how sad you’ve made me or look how well I’m doing without you. Either way it is about them again, trying to get a reaction. If you truly want to move on you won’t do that by waiting for them to respond to your proclamations. You just keep a painful connection. I think it becomes about wanting them to say something to make you feel better and they never do that.
It is good to articulate and explore your feelings and to share them with people you can confide in or the people here but not to him. I can’t think of any reason why that would help. It might just give you a temporary high that’s all and we all know what comes after that.
Tulipa
on 24/06/2012 at 12:43 pm
Hi Lilly
It seems like a good idea to have the final talk to make sure you have said everything and hope he understands or something clicks for him and he changes his mind and wham he becomes the man you want him to be.
I guess what I’m saying is question yourself and your motives as to why you want the conversation.
Natalie has written posts on this subject.
I also had a similar conversation with the ex eum and he just didn’t want to know he acted as though I wasn’t speaking plain and simple english.
You could try writing an unsent letter.
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 12:50 pm
Lilly, sorry, it’s me again – hope you don’t mind!
1. Thing is that mostly we want to tell him what we think and feel so that he’ll ‘get it’ and do something about it. Real NC (as opposed to faux NC) is not about getting a reaction from him, it’s about getting away from him so we can heal from the hurt and make better choices in future. If we are serious about NC we must commit to NO Contact – which means exactly that – NO contact.
2. He doesn’t care what you think and feel. If he cared he’d have left you alone rather than lying to you for years and involving you in his deceitful behaviour…. and all the rest.
3. What you’ll eventually see is that ‘closure’ from these men is something you have to do alone, for yourself; he will not help you.
4. Instead of telling him all how you feel (which will be unfulfilling and keep you stuck), focus on you and start understanding how and why you are in this ‘thing’. read BR and download Nat’s books. you don’t need him to understand you – YOU need to understand you. Deal with yourself – not with him (he’s a three-legged donkey; don’t waste any more time or energy whipping it).
Stick with BR.
Fifi
on 24/06/2012 at 1:07 pm
I’d say no. If you say nothing, you have nothing later to berate yourself for – when you look back on it later at different times, you’re likely to either berate yourself for being too harsh, or not saying enough – and end up wasting a lot of energy on that, and possibly re-engaging to ‘make it better’.
I’d just say we’re not right for each other, I don’t hate you, but I won’t be in contact anymore. In fact, it’s what I did say, and its working – no ruminations, no messages, just my life in front of me.
I kept a journal for all the feelings, and in the end, they mostly all became about me, not him.
simple pleasures
on 24/06/2012 at 8:19 pm
Lilly, my math professor terminated with me abruptly in Nov. Devastated I found BR. I wrote the unsent letter (the hurt you caused me), journalled, went to a
counselor, went through the holidays and my birthday, just hoping for a crumb of
affirmation. I maintained no email-phone contact, and low contact as we see each other at a club we belong to every week or so. He was polite, cordial wanted
things to be as if nothing had happened. I kept wanting to have NC with someone who I still had contact with so some weeks I would avoid eye contact and avoid
casual conversation. I was in the early stages of grieving-denial. Came Valentine’s
Day I broke down and sent a letter, my first real attempt at closure. It was a totally
positive love letter. It was a “why I loved you and you mattered to me in my life
letter”, there was no anger or bitterness, just sorrow that we couldn’t work things out. I got no response, no acknowledgment when I briefly would respond “hi” to him at the club. Then 2 months later in April we had a
conversation (first one since cold shoulder, no conversation “I can’t handle a
relationship” sentence at the club indicating he was done). He said, “you
wrote me a really nice letter in Feb. I said, “I wrote that from my heart”. He went
on to say, “I feel nothing negative about you, you are wonderful. It’s nothing you said or did…I’m limited.” So in a sentence he acknowledged it had nothing to do with me, it was his issues, and he actually validated me. We both felt good for the talk. It gave me the strength to go full force, no looking back no contact
starting in May. I totally avoid eye contact, and do not put myself near him so
that he can say “hi” to me at the club. It’s still not easy, I am not totally detached
yet. If you do contact him pre-no contact-do it as a positive, non vindicative way.
Expect to be ignored which will drive you nuts. But it may start the closing of the closure door for you.
.
Lilia
on 25/06/2012 at 4:00 am
Lilly, that´s exactly what I did – let him know I was stopping all contact with him because I was hurting and wanted to recover from the non-relationship. I didn´t really expect any reaction, I just wanted him to stop contacting me and it seemed the most polite way to say that.
Initially, he obliged. Then, he started to send me emails, im, chats. I didn´t respond much, would only say “hi” back, as if it was any other friend. So then he tried to resume the online flirting. I must say, it was really painful for me, on one hand, because it reminded me of my feelings for him, on the other, because I felt he was busting my boundaries – I had asked him not to play with my emotions and here he was doing it again!
Now it seems things have evolved to some sort of power struggle – he is trying to get me back to the position I was before (his adoring FBG), I´m trying hard not to fall into his manipulations. So I think in theory it may sound nice to get things off your chest and be able to move on, but these ACs won´t respect anything. Letting them know you´re moving on is like waving a red flag in front of a bull – it´s better to move away quietly, so they won´t even notice when you left.
teachable
on 24/06/2012 at 10:13 am
In my experience, when we don’t heed the call and lighten our load voluntarily, the universe moves into action to do it for us! LOL
That’s what has happened to me anyway – a couple of times. This is the second of them! LOL Working two jobs 7 days a week to pay off the mortgage? No problems. Universe gave me a serious illness where I now can’t work AT ALL!! LOL
Had problems working fulltime whilst studyng part time also? NO problems! Universe saw to it that I’m too ill to study now alsoi!! LOL
Son being an emotionally abusive twit ? (underpinned by mental abuse of him by his Father). No problems! He doesn’t want contact with me for ‘at least a year’!! (I love him to bits of course, but am somewhat relieved to be spared any more of his abuse!)
Certain friends turned out to be frenemy’s? No problem! Seeing as everything else was being offloaded I got into the spirit of things and decided to ‘offload’ THEM too!! LOL
Now none of this is especially funny – I can assure you – but you will notice that I am laffing my head off!! Why? Because it happened (aside from the frenemies) with me having basically NO SAY in any of it!!! I LOVE the way the universe works! It can be counted on to give me just what I needed – every single time!! LOL 😉
Sarah
on 24/06/2012 at 11:21 am
This lead weight thing has been on my mind for a while because currently I am looking to drop the final piece concerning my ex and I am not sure how to make the final cut. I guess I have spend the last months an months thinking back over what happened, wondering where it all went wrong, blaming myself, blaming him..shoulda, woulda, coulda…upset that he never came back. Devastated that I had to stay away..it’s like you further emotionally invest by engaging in these activities. Now, I want to move to, have had a few genuine crushes..I am a different woman now.
But in a way I guess it hard to finally let go..to accept that I’ll probably never have a civil conversation with him again..that is if I ever see him…to accept he plays no role in my future and that his only purpose in my life was to teach me a lesson..and that’s what of of it and this amounts to.
I don’t regret instigating NC, I don’t as much..as much as I miss him. I’m just not sure how to finally make peace with this?
Kerry
on 24/06/2012 at 5:42 pm
Sarah, I know exactly how you feel. I dumped my AC a year ago, walked away and cut all contact. He never made any attempt to fix it (which is a very good thing for me, although it hurt like hell). This year has been a blur of ruminating and obsessing over what just happened. That was a two year relationship, and for what purpose? I felt totally duped. I still imagine that one day we will have that closure talk, or something to make sense out of it. But really, if I’m honest with myself, I just want to know that he cared… because if he didn’t care the whole time he was going out with me, then it was like I was living a lie, right? And that’s the truth of it. I was living a lie, with a man who just used me, and who never cared about me. His actions said it all. Unfortunately, there is no closure on this one. Unlike my previous exes, this guy didn’t act like a human. And so the ending was appropriately, and horribly, inhumane and cold. I’ve seen him a couple of times in a bar, or whatever, and he looks right through me. He’s a narcissist, and once a narcissist is done with you, they’re done. It’s scary to see how they manipulate and use people, then toss them aside. I hear he’s got a new girlfriend and he’s begun the cycle all over again. All we can do is learn from it, move on, and build our self-esteem as protection from these toxic, awful people who never do anybody any good, ever. And do not expect answers from these guys. They don’t have any. They never did.
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 11:52 am
I think we can achieve more balance and happiness and get rid of the lead weights when we reappraise/re-affirm what our own values and life principles so that we can see quite clearly who and what needs to be got rid of.
I have been interested in Lilly’s predicament, above, in this respect and would like to add something more for her here and for other interested readers:
Lilly says,
“These are not my values and I will never, never be part of such a shady ‘relationship’ again.”
Lilly, that should include this current “relationship” – this MM is NOT an exception.
It’s not just about “caring'” about his wife; it’s about being complicit in – even a driving force behind – all the deceit and betrayal and hypocrisy which is a prerequisite for an affair to even get off the ground.
I have noticed in others and in myself that if we do not genuinely value integrity, honesty and sincerity in ourselves, we won’t value it in our choice of partner – hence we get involved with dishonest, insincere men who are badly lacking in integrity (Lilly, your MM?). Lilly, When you get your own values straight you’ll find you won’t want to know this man. You can do it! Never mind about what he thinks of you (his judgement is badly wanting!) just think more of yourself.
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 11:39 pm
Lilly
Apologies to you. I think I’ve been mixing you up with Learner (who is struggling at the moment in OW position).
Isabel
on 24/06/2012 at 1:10 pm
Lilly,
I will give it straight to you: NO! And you can take it to the bank. If we are at the point where no contact is needed, usually everything that had to be said has already been said a million times before. And with guys, actions speak louder than words. Whatever you will end up to say will only be interpreted as : “she still think about me and she wants to re-engage”. I believe its a really big mistake to depend on somebody else to give us closure, especially if they are flake/AC/EU. My mom is a sociopath to whom I did not talk to for 15 years, but most of my life I tried to find closure with her clones. With these folks, the only person who can give you closure is yourself and you do that by moving on and dealing with your emotional wounds. You want him to say or do something which will bring you peace, which obviously he has not been able to do before. So what makes you think it will happen because you contact him one last time? You really want to reach that ultimate point of ugliness and destruction which I did many, many years ago, when I told to my ex-lover and best friend that it was divine justice that he was dying of brain cancer because he spent his whole life messing with the brain of others? It did not matter that he messed enough with his wife she spent many months in the psychward and then proceeded to seduce me and wreck my relationship with my bf. The guy flew thousand of miles to see me and be sure I would not move on with my life by remaining emotionally connected. I also ended up to in the loonie bin followed by two years of NC with him until he contacted me to tell me he was dying. Which is when I gave him a piece of my mind. To this day, I regret my words as they were the last I ever told him. I did not have to get so low and I should have let him draw his own conclusions and make peace with his life on his terms. Walking away and staying away would have been more than enough as by then, he was estranged from everybody he cared about, including his wife and four children. Yup, that is as ugly as it can get when we keep going back at it, and we hurt enough. So go and knock yourself out if you want, but I doubt you will feel better.
A close door is the best way to tell both of you that you are fed up with this BS. You need to convince yourself its over, you don’t need to convince them. I had a friend who mindfucked me for suite for months and even after calling him on his crap and receiving from him many “I am sorry”, nothing changed. He was another one of my Maternal Redemption” projects. We had been so often through the cycle that I felt stuck spinning in a revolving door until one day I just wished him peace and happiness and said goodbye. I cut him lot of slack at the beginning because he said he was depressed, even wiped the slate cleaned once after he lied and kept me up a whole night by faking a suicide attempt to get my attention (it was pretty interesting when the police I had called told me he was alive and well after they checked on him). Then I just padlocked every lines of communications, IM, emails, phone etc…So, if you truly seek for closure just put a big sticky note on the fridge door: “IT’S OVER!
grace
on 24/06/2012 at 3:41 pm
Isabel
Powerfully said.
I reconnected with an EU ex who I had 90% gotten over apart from my ego wanting validation. I ended up married to him even though I had long stopped fancying him. Had to force myself to “consummate” the marriage. I cheated on him less than a year later. That guy turned out to be abusive, and I still have the scars to show for it. While I was living with the abuser, the playa seduced me because I was too sad and miserable to see him for what he was, I finally broke up with him and spent three years in depression. I have now not dated in over six years.
ALL BECAUSE I MADE THAT STUPID PHONE CALL!!! DROP THE NEED TO GET CLOSURE!
If I hadn’t made that call, if I’d been single and given myself time to heal and grow for another month, another year, hell another two years, three years, five years I would have still come out better off.
A failed relationship, a hurtful breakup, a bad argument, unfinished business, even abuse is not going to eat up your time, energy, emotions, optimism and self-esteem as much as this going back and going back for more.
As the bible says, As a dog returns to its vomit so a fool repeats his folly.
Still, I would consider it worthwhile if just ONE OF YOU heeds my dire example, gives it up and finishes it. As Isabel says, IT’S OVER.
Fearless
on 24/06/2012 at 5:22 pm
Isabel
“If we are at the point where no contact is needed, usually everything that had to be said has already been said a million times before.”
Yep. I can vouch for that one!
Broadsided
on 24/06/2012 at 2:55 pm
Lily – agee with the above comments. You won’t get closure, meaning the satisfaction of feeling heard and that he understands or apologizes for the effects of his actions. I’ve tried, and it hurts more if they ignore you or, worse, berate you or negate your heartfelt words. Better talk to your journal, and look for NMLs instruction on unsent letters. There is peace and healing in NC/silence. If he were a respectful and emotionally literate guy you would not need NC.
sm
on 24/06/2012 at 3:58 pm
I would just like to report that tomorrow I’m going to court with my mom to witness her get rid of her ‘dead weight’. She is adopting my youngest niece which will in turn push her toxic, f’d up mother out her life and my mom’s life for good. It will allow my niece to finally start the process of healing and will eliminate the bullying of my mom that has continuously gone on from the authorities and the ‘mother’ on behalf of this little girl. The mothers family and my dad (parents divorced) are against it, but it is none of their damn business because my moms been taking care of this girl for 5 yrs and none of them stepped up to do it. I would just like to say that the lesson for me in this is to do what is good for you by getting rid of ‘sick’ people who cant treat people right and dont listen to anyones opinions who dont have your best interests in mind!
isabel
on 24/06/2012 at 8:37 pm
SM,
I hope all goes well and swiftly for yourself and your mom tomorrow. This is a really trying situation your mom and yourself are going through.
sm
on 25/06/2012 at 11:48 am
Thank you isabel!
Lilly
on 25/06/2012 at 2:17 am
A very, very big thank you for all your responses. By seeking closure I think I’m trying to release this terrible pain, but need to learn other ways of resolving this than interaction with him (more pain). I think I’m trying to close the door on the confusion of the past (ambiguous behaviour is mind destroying), so I can focus on the future. I will try the unsent letter. Also, thank you for making me laugh. Fearless– I like imagining him as a three legged donkey.
Harriet
on 25/06/2012 at 9:24 am
Hey, Lilly,
“Ambiguous behaviour is mind destroying.” IMO this is such a valuable piece of information to keep in mind and it gives you a good reason NOT to seek closure from him as you know deep down that you will get more ambiguity instead and you will eff up your own mind with that ambiguity.
If you can see that “maybes” never move, you can also see how treating others inconsistently (even if it’s “unconsciously”) actually erodes their certainties and blocks their progress by making them spin in one spot. In business, no-one sometimes pays bills and invoices, sometimes not, or sometimes arrives for appointments, sometimes not. Even more important then to seek consistency from someone who is closer to your heart than a business associate!
It would be better to seek closure from things that can close. You would be better off consciously opening and closing your front door fifty times – try it – I mean it — I guarantee it will make you laugh after a while which is more than he will do.
Lilly
on 25/06/2012 at 3:00 am
Sorry it’s me again, but I need to get this out. Part of my reason for wanting to tell the AC my feelings is associated with the loss of my baby. This was so traumatic for me and his reaction was so cruel that I have little peace of mind. I have barely directed any anger towards him, but have kept it all in. Losing my baby was so upsetting that I’m finding it difficult to let go. I’ve never received an explanation from the AC as to why he felt the need to add to my grief. How can I just move on an let it be?
Marianna Miaow
on 25/06/2012 at 8:26 am
Lilly, I am so so sorry for your loss.
About 6 years ago I was with an AC, on off on off for about 7 years. Towrds the end I lost a baby about 4 months pgnt, it was absolutely horrific, when I came home from the weekend in hospital (alone, he didn’t visit) he came round to my apartment and for the first time ever cooked me a meal. Man was I ever grateful and over the moon for that pile of crumbs. When we had finished eating he told me he didn’t want to see me any more and that it was over. It took some time but what I realized was this: he was incapable, limited, poorly developed; he didn’t think like me or any considered, humane person because he just was not capable. Trying to get an apology or some sense of remorse from this person was like trying to get one from a goldfish, pointless and impossible and meaningless.
Give yourself time to grieve what has happened to you, it is lonely in your own but he was never there to begin with. Can you see a therapist? Lean on friends? Family? He is a goldfish and you cant change his species, he cant give you the closure you need. Please take care you YOU x x
Lilia
on 25/06/2012 at 12:28 pm
Oh Lilly and Marianna, I´m so sorry.
And Lilly, I´d say try to separate the AC from your loss, grieve for your baby as hard as it is. Don´t give him any more power, he´s not worth it – his behaviour only confirms that.
Lilly
on 25/06/2012 at 5:09 pm
Marianna – Our experiences are so similar I lost my baby at 21 weeks. The loss of a child is unbelievably painful and I’m so sorry that you had to endure this too. The lack of care, empathy and cruelty from these men makes it all the harder to cope with. I’m lucky as I have a wonderful sister who hasn’t judged me at all (he was a MM) and is helping me. Other’s haven’t been so supportive. It’s encouraging that you have reached some understanding and I hope to get there one day.
Lilia you are right I need to separate the AC from my loss and grieve for my baby. It’s not that I expected him to feel the same, as Marianna says he was never there to begin with. What I’m struggling with and don’t understand is why he felt the need to twist the knife.
Polly
on 25/06/2012 at 7:30 pm
Hi Lilly, It’s Polly again. Love, I can hear your pain in your words. To you it feels like twisting the knife, but he will never take responsibility for that. His ego won’t let him admit to being such a complete shit. So I can only see more hurt for you if you seek anything from him.
But he will know what he has done and how disgracefully he has behaved. And on some level it will affect him and that will be his justice. You just won’t know about it. And maybe your justice will be to learn and grow and find some happiness. So sorry about you baby x
Learner
on 26/06/2012 at 3:35 am
Lilly and Marianna,
I am so sad to hear about the loss of your babies. Trying to deal with these frustrating, demeaning men is hard enough without having to go through a heart-wrenching loss like that. I respect your strength and resilience.
Lilia
on 25/06/2012 at 3:03 am
Today I can proudly congratulate myself on having said no to the future faking casual virtual EU harem king. This is such a breakthrough for me! I was entangled in the push-pull dance for months and months, until finally, after he pulled back for over a month, I told him no more.
He tempted me with a get together (which is no more than an ego boost for him, a blow to my self esteem for me), I said no thanks, I can´t.
So now he´s getting a bit nervous, I think. But I don´t care. I find it all quite insulting, he tells me to meet in some kinky club during his lunch break and that I should dress sexy. At the same time, he is very manipulative about it, when I tell him that´s demeaning to me he pretends to be the one who is offended!
I´m so happy I can now see his BS for what it is, and protect myself better.This lead weight was a heavy one, I´m glad that I could let it go at last. Thank you Natalie and ladies for all of your wisdom, I couldn´t have done it without y´all!
Kerry
on 25/06/2012 at 7:51 pm
Love this.
“Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that, and living alone won’t either, for solitiude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. It is the reason you are here on earth. You are here to risk your heart. You are here to be swallowed up. And when it happens that you are broken, or betrayed, or left, or hurt, or death brushes near, let yourself sit by an apple tree and listen to the apples falling all around you in heaps, wasting their sweetness. Tell yourself you tasted as many as you could.”
– Louise Erdrich
Lilia
on 26/06/2012 at 3:39 am
Thanks for that, it is beautiful… copying it in my diary.
Polly
on 25/06/2012 at 10:27 pm
Learner,
I have an image of your married man sitting in a restaurant waiting for your dinner date looking really bewildered because you haven’t turned up. No carefully composed emails or texts – just a no show!
Fearless
on 25/06/2012 at 11:32 pm
Polly, ha! That’s an image worth savoring!
Learner,
Carefully composed email would look like this: “I’m done with this farce. Goodbye”
On the other hand, why bother your shirt? He’s more bothered about his wife having him sleep on the couch. You can draft as many emails as you want, set as many deadlines as you want, have as many ‘last’ dinners as you want – none of it will make a hoot of a difference. He’s a joke.
Learner
on 26/06/2012 at 3:45 am
Polly and Fearless. Thanks for helping me to laugh at this mess! I love the thought of him sitting there while he waited after his 45 minute drive to get to the restaurant, as he slowly realized I had stood him up. I would love to show up in disguise just to watch him look like the fool he actually is! Seriously, though, I am having enough trouble hitting “send” on the email draft I have ready. The message is not nearly as direct as your suggestion Fearless, but it’s ballsy for me. His pathetic attempts at texted flattery and feigned interest in my day today (four texts, with 11 hours between the third and the fourth and final “sweet dreams” texts) are helping me to work up the nerve, as are the wonderful people here on this blog. I am so glad to have found this site! Thank you!
runnergirl
on 26/06/2012 at 12:34 am
So sorry Learner…the others are right, at least from what I experienced. I went through so many ‘last suppers’ I didn’t need to eat for a year, followed by ‘last’ phone calls, followed by ‘last’ emails. The things we said during the ‘last’ discussions, we said for the prior two years. Deep down inside, I thought if I just said it one more time in a carefully crafted email or with tons of tears during the last supper, he’d spontaneously combust into the honest, caring, respectful guy I imagined instead of a lying, cheating SOB he was. I had the Pretty Woman complex pretty bad. I wish I would have been a no show with him and showed up sooner in my life instead. I didn’t think NC was possible because ours was such a unique (cough) situation. NC ended up being the best thing I’ve ever done. I off-loaded a 230 lb weight, FINALLY. (Thanks to you all.) Took some doing cos I’m as stubborn as a donkey but I so rarely think about him now. It’s like the urge is gone, FINALLY. You can do it too!
Here’s another version of a carefully crafted email: “I can no longer lie to myself, my friends, and family. I deserve better. Good bye”.
lo j
on 26/06/2012 at 2:07 am
And Learner, if he screws around on his wife, he’ll lie straight up. He’s getting laid. By his wife. You owe him nothing. Its enough that he’s lying to you, don’t bull shit yourself. NC.
Learner
on 26/06/2012 at 1:11 pm
Thank you so much all who have encouraged me to cancel that “last” dinner date and go NC. I have decided to let him know today that I will not be attending dinner, nor continuing contact with him outside of necessary work activities.
runnergirl
on 26/06/2012 at 3:29 pm
Hi Lerner,
Good for you. Don’t give him another chance to reject you. May I suggest getting Natalie’s books, particularly the NC book to start. I made the mistake of waiting several months. The NC book is really helpful in describing the first few weeks of no contact and filled with handy advice. Sending you hugs and strength.
I’ve been running Baggage Reclaim since September 2005, and I’ve spent many thousands of hours writing this labour of love. The site has been ad-free the entire time, and it costs hundreds of pounds a month to run it on my own. If what I share here has helped you and you’re in a position to do so, I would love if you could make a donation. Your support is so very much appreciated! Thank you.
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I have found it hard to cope with someone who doesn’t see the imbalance as temporary when it clearly is to me. Kids are tough on any relationship and each of ours was a real burden on the marriage for about 3 years (at least!). But knowing it ends gave me strength to devote for that period.
For him, well maybe he just can’t multitask. He took the imbalance to a whole new level: he couldn’t give me any attention anymore it was all for the kids. Maybe that’s why it got him down so much but he wouldn’t do it differently with the next child.
I’ve heard if men who feel forgotten when their wife becomes completely focused on the baby. Well I had that and I’m the mother! I though it was temporary so I kept going. He thought it was permanent and gave up on us and had an affair.
*aaahhhh* big sigh of relief…
Not 5 minutes before I saw this post I had just let go of a huge weight on my mind.
A few shifts in my thinking this past week led to more assertiveness and demanding in my thoughts, and a burst of energy. Feeling the compulsion to sit down with the boy and “have a talk” with him next week, I busted out the iPod to record the whole entire conversation in my mind.
2 hours of variations of “I want you to think about what’s in it for you and how you could benefit by committing to me cuz I’m not going to try to convince you and those answers have to come from the inside,” later, I think I finally found a way to reach my inner EUM. Maybe I don’t need the exhausting drama king love interest to act him out for me anymore 🙂 Just the thought of talking to him one more time makes me heave.
Huge relief.
Next weight to toss: the exhaustingly tedious job, right after I get settled in my new place the next couple of weeks.
I want to share with y’all something interesting happened this past week. While I was lying in bed just relaxing, an old memory resurfaced of being punched in the belly by my father on my 10th birthday, at the dinner table in front of my best friend. This memory has been exquisitely painful and shameful, and I remember slinking off and being so ashamed and basically shutting my heart down and pretending not to be hurt but instead saying over and over how much I hated him.
This memory ran again for the nth time, but this time, so weirdly, spontaneously as the scene unfolded in my mind, instead of standing there shocked and stunned, it was as if I were standing there as an adult. I looked at him, rolled my eyes, and said, with a ‘ghetto’ attitude, ” Are you crazy? Did you REALLY just hit your OWN daughter? Are you RETARDED? Have you lost your damned MIND? Oh hellll no, you are gonna just sit there, and think about what you did.” I turned to my friend, and with a little neck roll, said to my friend, “come on, girl, let’s go play while this fool sits here and learns some damned respect.”
I couldn’t sleep for HOURS because I couldn’t stop giggling, I laughed and laughed and laughed, it was amazing how free and relaxed I felt. I realized somehow I had been stuck in my mind in that moment, as if I were still that little girl and that was still happening.
So, to relate it to the…
Sunshine, I just wanted to say thank you for causing me to laugh very loudly and that I must write something on this subject because I’ve been through something similar and I know quite a few others that have. It’s called Parents Who Fuck Up Your Birthday’s (& Possibly All Major Holidays) or Envying Your Child. Let’s just say that every birthday from 13-18 and a couple in early childhood, most Christmases, Mother’s Day, Easter and National Curry Week (joke on the last one). The other reason why it happens is they likely had very bad childhoods themselves. I had ‘forgotten’ about some of these experiences, which used to cause a great deal of shame, but after reading your comment, I wept laughing and said “Who the fuck throws their child out on every birthday 6 years in a row? That shit ain’t right!”
I feel gratified that it was contagious….I’m *still* laughing about it and am giggling away at your story.
I thought of it again today and nearly spewed water out of my nose…it’s amazing how much energy gets tied up in shame! Today I visited with a friend who I haven’t seen for a month who kept commenting how much lighter I seemed.
*more sighing*….such a relief.
What about Parents Who Fucked Up Your Entire Childhood? No wonder I’m a tad behind the eightball with certain developmental milestones (study mainly). At 43 yo I’m STILL playing ‘catch up’ (and yes – it’s EXHAUSTING)!!!! LOL
sunshine, nml, everybody-
wow, this is like a tonic, an internal cleanser!
i’ve had moments like yours, sunshine, in which i relived a horrific memory but calmly turned the tables on my aggressor. but yours made me feel this all over again.
how many days, not just birthdays and holidays, but every damn day, did my father make me wish i’d never been born? and don’t i need to just shove off the leftover weight from that?
and i don’t i need to shove off the remaining weights from the ex-EUM?
aaaaahhhhh!!!
thank you! thank you.
Amazingly powerful to re-experience trauma, but on your terms! Thanks for sharing!
My heart feels for you guys, and applaud you for finding ways process this hurt and get on with life.
My ex husband had/has a bad temper. For our daughter’s 16th birthday he entered the Parents Who Fuck Up Their Child’s Birthday hall of fame by buying her a beautiful bouquet of flowers, and then a couple of hours later throwing it at her during one of his little fits of rage. (I’d moved out by then, and she came to live with me for 2 months, not speaking to him during that time.) He threw a handful of shrimp at her once since he didn’t like the way she was looking at him. Etc., etc. Just stupid, unbelievable things – no physical hitting, but just verbal abuse, and throwing and smashing things. Right now my daughter just wants to bury these memories – she is basically doing fine as an adult on her own. EXCEPT – she has a pattern of dating men who are not very nice or respectful to her, which makes me sad. She and I are talking about this and I believe she is seeing the light. Maybe one day she can process her past the way you guys have. I was lucky enough to grow up with respectful, kind and good parents – the kind of behavior I’ve seen in the “real world” from people is shocking.
@Sunshine – almost like a verbal “unsent letter”!!! Good for you.
So glad you shared this Sunshine! This helped me understand why I don’t get nearly as much anxiety around my parents, esp my Dad, as I used to.
I too just started seeing him as a bit of a weirdo, and began laughing about some of his crazy and abusive habits (like standing on my foot or pinching the back of my arm so that I could not leave a confrontation with him – and this was right up til my early twenties!).
When I was little I used to focus on my hatred for him, and the injustice of his treatment of me, and, similarly, I couldn’t actually say to him or myself that I was hurt. For fair reasons – there did not seem any recourse anyway so expressing hurt seemed futile and weak – I was just consumed with this sense of him being such a d*ckhead, but, of course, as a child, I would then have to doubt this – because parents are perfect – and turn it on myself. Now I don’t. Now I just think, I was right at the time: what a d*ckhead!
I also now see him as older and changing, and let him have his own battles. It’s separate to me. I feel like I made it through something that is not real or present anymore.
But, to bring it back to this post, I completely agree about needing to lose the deadweight, and that this deadweight might not actually be the thing you imagine it to be (other sources of stress trigger old sources of pain). I know 100% – actually, it happened this weekend – that when I put all this pressure on myself to achieve at work and in my other projects and declare some sort of deadline for when I must have amassed a certain amount of success (even though I am already doing more than fine) and when I stop giving myself at least one day off to rest and do very little (as distinct from when I say it’s a day off, but I still spent the day worrying about things or frenetically feeding myself information via books, newspapers and documentaries) then the past seems so much more interesting and powerful: childhood stuff, AC stuff, other things I felt bad about.
It’s actually an adult thing to look after yourself and to recognise that sleep, exercise and whimsical, unplanned play are central to this. It then, in turn, becomes much easier to see what has to be dropped from life, instead of just madly persisting with the obstacle course: jump those garish career-hoops, avoid that massive plastic childhood hammer, have another go at swimming through the AC-windmill!
This is tremendous, and just in the nick of time, before I totally burned out. Since letting go of my (EU) ex last year I have placed the most immense pressure on myself to succeed in all other areas of my life, and keep my mind off that a***ehole, and how he treat me, I have run myself down, reeeally badly, hanging in there and working so hard at a job I hate, gymming myself to death 5 times a week, progressing my baby horse’s training, making sure I keep all my friends and family happy, even just keeping a smile on my face so the perception of me is an improvement upon the emotional wreck I was last year….
…so Last night I collapsed, I’ve been off work today. I’m floored.
In the words of Ferris Bueller – “Life moves pretty fast, if you dont stop and look around once in a while you might miss it”… Thank you so much Nat. Time to chill and reflect methinks…x x
Wow … and I used to feel bad because my parents never acknowledged my birthdays. My mother always said I was too sensitive. Lol!!!
Wouldn’t you know that not even 5 minutes before seeing this post I had to take a stand. I was temporarily staying with a gay male friend. He literally locked me out of his house so he could have sex. Before he did I asked him if I could get my things (so I could go). He wouldn’t let me and said for me to just give them a few minutes. I was outside for 20 minutes or more. As his weekend delight left I went in to grab my things. Told him that our friendship was clearly not one with respect or trust. He said he had to just have sex with the man right then and there. I said I couldn’t have gotten my things? He said he had to and he doesn’t feel he is wrong. I told him this is not about right or wrong. And then left without a word.
“When people show you who they are, believe them” Maya Angelou
Oh god, I need to do this. I just had the most horrible evening…having the first guy I DARED to be intimate with after my self esteem robber EUM ex, send me a big long message about how he didn’t feel a relationship could progress and how he didn’t fancy me etc!!!! I just felt like dying!!! One of the big reasons he said was that I still appeared hurt by my ex…I guess that’s a weight I need to drop..wish I knew how..
But goodness..I didn’t see how this guy’s message was necessary. I wanna hide in my bed forever!!!!!!!!!
Awwww Anne, so sorry that happened! This may very well be (to steal a phrase from Nat) your Epiphany Moment. Notice he didn’t say there was anything “wrong” with you, his issue was about you being hung up on your ex. Here’s how you drop it: Just. Drop. It. Seriously. I’ve been there and I finally was just like, “You know what? I’m done with feeling badly about this.” and you know what? I was. Right then and there. Don’t let this episode derail you – sometimes a great change is started with a good cringe. Hope this helps!!
Anne,
Why did he think you weren’t over the ex?
Natalie, I just want to say thank you for your knowledge, experiences, and testimonies. You’re a major blessing.
I’m posting a little less frequently, as I’ve recovered – it’s not 100% recovery, more like 98% back, the other 2% is probably going to be a scar.
I like the term ‘firefighting’
I’ve spent most of my life ‘firefighting’ because there really was no other choice for me. I grew up in the line of fire, escaped domestic violence and had to fight that fire and keep it under control from consuming my life, then I had EUMs to deal with, study to get the ticket for my independance and a job to pay for myself and food, yes it has come at MASSIVE personal and social cost over the last 7 years, but the reality is that there was no alternative then, I just had to SURVIVE.
In the last 6 months, my life has finally started to look up. I have a job and money and while I haven’t got the full stability I wanted, it is stable enough to feel safe and enjoy myself.
A lot of things need to be dropped from my life and I need to relax and stop being so rigid.
Tired, I miss all your quips but I am happy that you have recovered. Sometimes when we start to heal (and I can only speak for myself here), it is necessary to be rigid. Not to keep other people out but to keep our own selves in check because we havent done a good job at honoring our boundaries. I was just thinking as I was laying in bed this morning that feeling like we are on stable ground is the main key to happiness, whether in a relationship or job/financially.
I need to pick up some weight on the relationship side, I think. As a single person in her late 30s, many friends are occupied with family when they’re not working, and it is a challenge to find enough activities and time with good friends to balance out work.
Intimacy is spending time together in day-to-day things, and I find it hard to create that. This period in my life right now, as I finish a PhD while starting a new job, is going to be super busy with work and super light on the relationship side, as I’ll be in a new town. But taking care of me means doing my best to provide myself that balance.
Congratulations on your ph.d.! And the new job!
I’ve been in your situation and its easy to get swallowed alive by the demands of a career. What worked for me is that always had pets who followed me everywhere I moved. It made it at times a bit more complicated to find apartments and a bit of a financial commitment when traveling with them and boarding them but it really brought me balance. I had to go back home to walk the dogs and feed the cats, I had company over the week-end, I joined kennel clubs to do fun stuff with the puppers. And as a bonus, the dogs were always a great conversation opener with all kind of other people (and yes, guys) who also were dog nut like me. My philosophy was that if the job does not even allow me to keep a dog, then its just not worth it, the sacrifices were just outweighing the benefits. It might not be a pet for you, but I think its important to have something we are committed to beside work and that is non-negotiable. My daily walk with the pups was pretty much sacred and kept me fit and sane. With guys, I had that guideline that if they cant understand why the dogs are so important to me, and they cant respect it, than they cant understand me anyway, and over time, they will ask me to give up on many other things that matters to me so I become , and excuse the pun, their bitch. It does not have to be a pet, it can be your circle a friends, your knitting club, your church, but I believe we all need our boyfriend, work free zone. But since I was moving around, the pets is what worked for me as I could not really ask my friends to relocate in the boondocks for my sake. And now that I am moving, divorcing and starting a new job, guess what is following me? Of course, one of the pup (the other is daddy’s boy).
Congrats Mag!! 🙂 I’m in a similar mode right now – the crappy economy is making me reevaluate my career and, maybe I can’t multitask, but I don’t feel like adding dating to the mix at the mo. I so hear you – four of my good friends just got married and I dealt with the same issue of finding time with them when they were very busy planning their weddings. I have no doubt you’re going to meet some awesome people in your new town – awesome attracts awesome, so you’ll be just fine!
Thanks Isabel – I’ve considered the dog, a very little bit. I have figured I’m too unstable for a dog; huh – I feel lately that I’ve felt that I’m always “not quite ready” to get into any big commitment – like a dog – don’t know how I expected to attract a partner looking for commitment when I can’t even fathom a pet. The fact that lately I think I might be able to handle the dog, even as I move around in life, means change!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Natasha! Btw, your quip about the plastic surgeon suggesting botox made me choke on MY diet coke. Say no to immobilbrow!
You may be devoting your life to extricating yourself out of a relationship but battling with your own feelings (and theirs) and putting so much energy into trying to avoid contact, dealing with your super-busy ruminating, if not damn near obsessing mind, that next thing you look up and months or even a year or so has gone by.
Wow. I really needed this post. Thank you.
This paragraph especially sums up my year of torment, and the time wasted. It’s starting to sink in that I need to shift focus onto my own life if I’m going to stop the obsessing. I obsess over the obsessing, it’s become so bad. I have to stop the insanity!
this is EXACTLY the paragraph that hit home for me. that is totally what I do!
And a big ditto from me too, a whole year of total obsessing! That is a whole lot of days given over to some jerk I havent seen in a year! Am trying to learn the lesson, and like you say, shift the focus and be accountable – while hiding out in the obsession bubble I was protected from dealing with my life and my future unknowns, it has played a useful role in that sense and now its time to get brave…no idea where to start but know I have to!
That’s also a whole lot of days for a guy who didn’t even really love me! Never mind the two years I spent with him. Sometimes, when I want to give myself a wake up call, I say to myself, “You’ve officially been thinking every day about a man who did not love or care about you for 3 years, 2 months and X number of days… ” It really puts it in perspective. It also makes me feel like I really need to get on with my life because this is getting pathetic! Seriously! Enough’s enough!
Natalie and ladies, I’m in a wacky and wonderful spot. After a year and change on men-o-pause, living through the darkness of being an OW, and a ton of work on me thanks to Natalie and the wonderful BR community, I signed up on an online dating thingy. I swear to god, it’s been the most incredible experience for me as I’ve been practicing everythingsinglething I’ve learned on BR. I am amazed and I’ve learned so much. I have boundaries for the first time in my life. Although, I let two bad dates drag on, and on. I recognize now that there was a moment when I could have exited, gracefully. Boundaries Runner. So I just spoke via telephone (cos i won’t text) with this totally nice guy. After just one dinner last night, he wants me to come to his house on the beach. He has bought my favorite candy and can hardly wait. I suggested we meet for brunch on Sunday instead. He agreed. These guys seem way more invested,. So tomorrow evening, I meet another guy for drinks. He is WAY smart , has a totally cool job, but has this long hair thing. Yikes, either they have long hair or they are bald? i hate to be so superficial after all the pain.
Yeah Runner!!! I’m so happy for you lady 🙂
Thanks so much Natasha. It’s really amazing though. It’s like the FBG baggage/weights are just lurking in the corner waiting to jump back on. I can totally understand now why I ended up as a FBG/OW/OPTION. I’ve been practicing “mindfulness” being totally present with myself, and I see so much. One guy spent a good portion of the evening telling me about his crazy ex (RED FLAG) and all about how humans evolved from apes (we didn’t–I just lectured on that topic in the morning). I was going to give him a second chance because of his appearance but came to my BR senses quickly and flushed. Another guy also led the evening with how he sued his crazy ex for custody and won. Didn’t have to think for a moment. But’s here’s the craziest part, one totally handsome guy (with hair, not gray), responded to my profile in a coherent, thoughtful manner. It was clear, he was only looking for casual dating. But I swear to honest god, after all I’ve been through with the casual crap and being 100% committed to a LTR, I paused and heard myself thinking, “I’ll bet I can turn him around”. I hit delete so fast I’m sure his computer exploded. It’s been fascinating seeing the world through my new BR lenses and seeing that even though I’ve done a ton of work, my FBG habits are very deeply internalized. The nice guy, who bought my favorite candy and invited me to his house for the second date (too fast), was a bit cool this morning at brunch. But again, the FBG tendencies wanted to go to his house, play frisbee on the beach and drink Bloody Marys. But, thanks to you all, I knew where that would lead! When does the FBG baggage stay in the cargo hold? When do these weights permanently go away?
Runner, I hand it to you. Even though I’ve been a fan of online dating, I just do not have the stomach to wade through all the crap at this time. I have been meeting guys in person but there are draw backs to that as well, I keep running into them even after it doesnt work out. I have to laugh, I ran into two of them this weekend (including one I didnt go on a date with because he blocked his number) and one last weekend. Awkward! I joked to my friend that I have never once run into the guys I met online, even when they live a few miles from me.
But you are right, it is really difficult to drop the FBG ways. I am learning more and more that it is more who needs to be watched, not them.
I have just rid myself of the second and last EUM in my life
The first ruined EVERY Christmas of our marriage, the only day of the year he stayed in bed, he would hide under the doona until after the kids had opened the presents, making us all so sad and mad
Came out of that into an 18 month non-relationship with MM who sabotaged two birthdays in a row
Enough enough enough dead weights to sink an ocean liner
Natalie, this is the “killer” post, you are spot on again, thank you so much. All your described, so familiar.
1) I hate my job, as it is underpaid, not my field (with my two degrees) , but because it is convenient for the time being, and I just not bother to look for new one…I know I must study more, as I want to do completely different thing in my grand age of 40! BUT scared to change and think it is too late to turn my life around, so I am accepting to be miserable and deeply unhappy!!!
2) My personal life – rid of one Assclown, met the second one, yesterday rid of him too We had an amazing sexual relationship for three months, I did not push him, as he was saying ” lets see how it goes”…BUT yesterday, after night of passion, he told me: “Sorry I cant give you what you are looking for, I am recently divorced and my main issue is my 4 years old son, I want to concentrate on him but whatever you want sex, please call me”…I do not know what happened to me at that moment, but I just throw him out by saying: ” I am dumping you as you are not a person I am looking for and please delete my number and never contact me again” That it. DO you think I lost “weight” of this “relationship” and you think I feel better??? NO NO NO…Now I feel like, not only I hate my job, but now I am single and no one here even to hug me:-( I KNOW that it will be better for the long run, but now I feel so lost….I know I have to do something about my job and private life, but where to start first???
LOL hs, I think you’ve already started…on the personal life at least. I had the same problem last year, a job that gave me no joy and an azzclown I hung onto so I wouldnt be alone. At least you knowingly got rid of the ac, I didnt, he got rid of me. However I did go on to find a job that restored my joy, pocketbook and gave me a satisfactory shot in the arm. I’m still working on the personal life stuff but I am happy and you will be too.
HS
You were worse than ‘single’ with this user. Focus on that. You’ve at least got shot of that dead weight of a as**ole. Good for you. Don’t back peddle on it – he needs to go so that you can do better for yourself. Make a plan of action – set out some goals and how you’re going to get there. Be clear with yourself about what you’re looking for in a relationship and do not accept crumbs from any man. That’s my advice for what it’s worth.
‘Call me whenever you want sex’ says he! Pfft. Yeah, right. Groan.
HS
Good for you! Shelve the sex life for now. You can have emotional support without sex Look to friends, church, evening classes., dance classes etc. You’ll survive!
As for the job. Try to look on the bright side. At least you have one. Go in, do it, don’t stew over it, see if there is ONE colleague you can befriend. With everyone else, just treat it as a challenge to not let them get you down. Unless they really are seriously psychologically damaged, even the difficult, bitchy, scratchy people can be open to a short convo about the weather or the commute. See it as giving your boundaries a workout. Yes, I can talk to someone who is difficult and who I don’t even like very much and not fall apart!
In the meantime, keep looking and see what else is out there.
SM, Fearless and Grace, I cant even tell you how grateful I am for your responses!
The Assclown sent me a message today, that I actually misunderstood him? ! What I did not understand, that he wants to have sex without being committed?! He apologized and now I am thinking if I should talk to him or not?!
Regarding my job, I work in the Bank and sometimes I have very unpleasant customers, my colleagues are very supportive, keep telling me “do not take it personally” but I DO…I have to say I am very sensitive person to any kind of remarks…
I remember NML’s article about sitting in the bench and looking how life is passing by, I am not going to do this anymore, I will start to change, step by step…Thank you for your words of wisdom!!!
HS
“sent me a msg”. Please don’t start overvaluing the messaging and texting. it is only good for a laugh, basic info, and a back up to telephone calls and in person communication (when you can see someone with your eyes and touch them).
The fact that he’s sent a mere msg after being so offensive only confirms his EU-ness. If he called you I’d be slightly more impressed or if he took you out somewhere. Message? Blah to that. Ignore it.
PS Everyone, even top lawyers, have crappy clients and customers. Don’t take it to heart. Have a laugh about it with your colleagues. Stay calm.
HS he’s only saying that because he’s lost his sex! Do not believe him, trust me you did not misunderstand him. If you go back now, you will spend some moments in bliss but he will go cold faster. As far as the job, I’m in sales and have been a long time, I had to learn to grow a thick skin. I always tell new sales people, I did not pop out of the womb this way, I learned it by trial and error and you will too.
Sounds like you’re over capacity. Cut the guy and DON’T DATE ANYONE until you are ABSOLUTELY CLEAR of this mess. Sounds like you’re on rebound!
Yes, you are right TOA, this is rebound. YES, I was not ready to meet anyone, but still I went for it, as I wanted to forget AC number 1 and started to date AC number 2 after only four months! I even told him that I was in love with AC and was grateful that he helped me move on. I was wrong as now my all thoughts about this guy and not the first one. How messy and confusing:-(
Don’t feel bad. In the weeks after my non-break up, I went to date 2 more people and it was awful. They only lasted 2 dates thankfully.
When I asked ‘what do you look for in someone’ and I got ‘oh, common interests, etc etc’ I just felt horrible.
I couldn’t believe how long it took me. Well thankfully that will be the LAST time won’t it.
Nice post
“your fears, unhealthy beliefs, doubts, insecurities, and habits, plus at times, shady/draining people – lead weights – end up eclipsing your ability to be happy and get the most out of your life.”
Natalie, I am so grateful for these words today. I have been struggling with ending a relationship with a MM/AC. I had been with him for 3 years, and we seemed to be getting very, very close emotionally so I gave him a deadline to decide if he was going to do what was needed to get out of his marriage so we could be together, or to let me go as I could not live with the pain of sharing him. Over the last 2 years, he had become more and more communicative, told me I was the first person to “open his heart and feel true love” and that he felt like he was “home” when we were together. I always had a niggly feeling that he was hiding something from me though, and I found that out a few weeks ago. He had another lover for more than a DECADE (a friend of his wifes) and had coffee with her that morning!!! I was devastated and never wanted to talk to him again. He said they didn’t have much of a relationship any more, and were no longer intimate. He cried for hours and almost begged for us to stay friends, so I agreed. He broke up with the other person via email which I saw him send (he said he had been trying to break up with her for years but didn’t want to hurt her and was unable to do it in person). We have become such a huge part of each other’s lives. It has been tough being friends as I have a lot of anger and can’t trust anything he says! We are going to a concert tonight, as we got the tickets months ago and it’s a big name band. But he has been quite cold with barely any texts, ignoring my last 4 texts even though we are seeing each other today! He is continuing to make me feel more bad than good. I know he is a lead weight that I should get out of my life, but not sure how to make the final cut. If anyone has suggestions, I would be most appreciative. Thanks.
Learner
you are dealing with a cowardly man, a cheat and a liar. You are invested in what you think is potential. But there is none. Before you know it another 8+ years will have passed and you’ll be third fiddle getting dropped by email. Read Nat’s books that you can download from BR. The only way to move to is to do it – take the first essential step by cutting him right off (NC). Only then will the fog begin to clear. Right now you can’t see the woods for the trees. Married men are NOT available. Read Nat’s post ‘no such thing as an honest cheat’ and related posts. Give it up before you end up trying to scrape your self-esteem off the floor.
Totally agree with Fearless, my ex horrid married person tried to relegate me to third place after I waited 2 years in vain to get promoted to first. I feel for you I really do and maybe putting yourself in the shoes of the woman dropped after 10 years might give you the push you need. You know you can no longer trust him so where do you have to go with this man? He is a coward – let him live his sad cowardly life without you being dragged down by it. Move on, prepare yourself for some short term pain, recovery, discovery and a fantastic future 🙂
Thank you Polly. I don’t feel quite as shameful knowing that others have been caught in a married person’s web of lies and other. other people on the side. You ask a good question – where do I have to go with this man? The obvious answer is nowhere! I am leaving to go to the concert with him right now, though, and I will keep your ideas and those of others top of mind as we spend the evening together. This will give me strength if he tried to pull me back in to anything physical with him.
Learner
You do it by doing it. You need to realise you have been deluding yourself.
Your excuses are trapping you and you need to drop them:
“I have been with him” you weren’t with him, you were having an affair. You can’t be with someone who’s married to someone else
“we seemed to be getting very close emotionally” I doubt that. Sex, crying, drama, or even lovey-dovey talk isn’t the same as being close. Free yourself, and one day you will know what true closeness is.
“I gave him a deadline” no you didn’t, you’re still there
“Over the last 2 years he had been more communicative” When I saw the “2” I expected it to be followed by “months” or “weeks” not YEARS. that’s a hell of a long wait for a flippin concert with a “friend” you’re mad at and don’t trust, and who’s ignoring you to boot!
“We have become such a huge part of each other’s lives” – how so? You’ve been one of THREE women (that you know about)
“begged for us to be friends so i agreed” Please muster whatever pride you have left and don’t let this cowardly crying cheating man baby jerk you around anymore. YOU ARE NOT FRIENDS.
Fearless and Grace,
You have really given it to me straight here, and I thank you for that. I hadn’t thought of “third fiddle” before but it is the ugly truth. Although he has started returning my texts (said he’s been busy running errands) it is really pretty pathetic really, isn’t it, that whether he texts or not can have me switching from weepy to elated in a matter of minutes. Grace – we have become a large part of each others lives in that we were texting from morning to night, seeing each other at least once a week, sharing thoughts, what happened during our days, sunrises, sunsets, hopes, dreams….and, I suppose, illusions. I feel we know each other so well. Hmmm, except I didnt know about the other other person, and it has been hell trying to process and make sense of the last 3 years knowing she has been a part of it, at least at first. I sensed another person, and asked many times, but he denied firmly, and told me I “had to trust him”. As I look back, I can see many times I KNEW something didnt add up, but he fibbed over and over again. He said it was so I didn;t get hurt! He says he doesnt want to hurt anyone, but now knows he has hurt at least three (me, him, the other OP). We bought the concert tickets last November, for tonight’s show. I did give him a deadline, yes – the end of June. We have a dinner reservation next week to discuss “our” decisions. That is the last date I have planned with him. I think what I say may change now, as I take in all of what Natalie and you have said. I know in my head he is not good for me. When I see him, he seems so vulnerable and friendly and familiar – I lose my resolve to be mad at him. Lots to think about – and I must download the book you mentioned, and read the post on honest cheats. Thanks again!
Learner
before you go on even a final date with him, do remember he has a wife.
It’s never too soon to NC a married man.
Learner – Great advice from Polly, Fearless and Grace. I was also involved with MM/AC now renamed CHB (cold hearted b…….d) in my journal. I can relate to your experience of switching from weepy to elated depending on whether he texts or not. Why on earth do we give them the power to do this especially when we know they are lying to us, making us feel bad and messing with our heads? With the help of BR I’m starting to process all the pain and sort my life out. As Fearless says “give it up before you end up trying to scrape your self-esteem off the floor”. That’s exactly where I’m at now. I wish you lots of luck.
Thank you Lilly. Yes, I have been trying to process it all too, and it’s so tough to find the sense in it all. I must take his power away to affect me so profoundly.
I know I must go NC. He admitted last night to being a coward (as Fearless said) and having “no follow-through” when it comes to relationships. I think I must be a coward too, as when I think of not having that last dinner with him, it makes me feel panicky for some reason. I guess I just want closure in the form of a “final discussion”. Then NC starting right after the dinner.
Hi Learner,
I’m so sorry you are in this situation. Your story sounds exactly like my two year stint as an OW (except the other, other woman-that I know of). We were s**lmates, best friends, and saw one another 3 to 4 times a week. I’d like to suggest that between now and the end of June, you may want to read, read, and read everything Natalie has posted about “affairs”. And I strongly recommend her books as well. I made such a big deal of the “texting from morning to night” too. It’s crumbs. The reason why MM’s text their mistresses is because they are busy living a life with their wife and yours seems to be very busy leading at least three lives. I notice you mention that: “He says he doesnt want to hurt anyone, but now knows he has hurt at least three (me, him, the other OP).” Err…what about the woman he is married to? I conveniently “forgot” his wife too, until she put a tail on him and caught us. Then she became very, very real. You also mention that he “fibbed” over and over again. Seriously? He’s lying to his wife, to you, and to the other woman. He’s a liar. I remember the day I read Nat’s article “There’s No Such Thing As An Honest Cheat” and realized he had to be lying to me as well as his wife. Even if he decides to leave his wife (my bet is the goal post will shift), would you want to spend the rest of your life with this baggage? Talk about out of whack. The MM is a ten ton weight. I didn’t realize how heavy a load I was carrying until I finally committed to NC with the help of Natalie and the BR community. Special thanks to Nat, Fearless, Grace, and the others who stuck by me while I struggled. Learner, spend some time thinking about whether you want to spend the rest of your life with a cheater who cheats on his wife, his mistress, and his other mistress. Who knows where you actually fit within his harem. “When I see him, he seems so vulnerable and friendly and familiar…” You are in deep girl just like I was. After a year and change of getting rid of my ‘life sucker”, I am MUCH happier. Send this life sucker back to his wife and his other mistress. Get your life back in whack. Hugs to you. I’ll be here for you.
runnergirl – yes, yes, you are right, he is hurting his wife too – WE have been hurting his wife even though he says she has no idea he has been unfaithful. You are right – he his a very heavy lead weight indeed. I don’t think I could ever trust him to be faithful. I saw him last night at the concert, and we had a few drinks, and there was some hand holding and a kiss goodnight. He told me he loves me and was in denial about us ending our relationship. I feared he would start with the mushy texts today, after the “high” of the concert, but instead he just told me that his wife had put 2 pillows on the couch for him when he got home, and had hidden some of his things! He told me as if it was an inconvenience to him and was complaining about her response. He seemed to have no remorse for making her that angry. He also didnt mention me, or the concert, just about the crappy start to HIS day!!! What a self-absorbed idiot! It really brought home for me that yes, his wife is very real, and is obviously hurting. I texted back thanking him for pointing out the negative effects of our deceit, and told him we could cancel our final dinner date next week – he just has to give me the word. I dont want to hurt any more, I dont want to cause hurt any more. I need to clarify my values and get rid of this life sucker!
Learner, Why does HE have to give the word to cancel the date? YOU can make the decision and take control of things. You are still giving him the power. Sorry I see it because I’ve done it myself. You will not get a decent relationship out of this man. You know this. Be strong.
Wow Learner and ladies, you all made me revisit my complicity in the deceit, again. It’s like a led weight that still has a message for me. Learner, you are way ahead of where I was when I finally acknowledged he had a real bona fide wife. Who the freck cares how “cold” the real wife is. They don’t have any remorse for what they put their wife through or what they put their mistress through. It’s just another crappy start to HIS day. So been there. It must be hell when your wife and mistress is pissed off. Okay Learner, you know you have to ditch this led weight. It will hurt like hell when you go NC. But it won’t hurt like the hell you are going through now. Once I clarified my values, I kicked my arse around my backyard until my neighbors made me stop. The only way out of the hurt is NC. So, so, so sorry. I have been there. I’ll be there for you. Tons of hugs. It totally sucks big time.
Learner,
I’m sorry, but why does he have to give you the final word?
There is no future with this man, as he has shown you that he will never be trustworthy. Are you not one of four women he is intimately involved with!
Are there children involved in this?
Allison. You and others ask a great question. Why should HE give the final word? I WAS one of three women he was intimately involved with (says he hasnt slept with his wife for 10 years, but had another OW all that time). When I found out a few weeks ago about the OOW, I stopped being intimate with him, he broke up with OOW, and now we are now “just friends”. I can see now that he is not my friend. I am working on the wording of an email in which I will cancel that last dinner myself. And then start NC. If he is being honest about the sexless marriage and breaking up with OOW, then it seems he is intimate with no one right now. Hmmm, I like that thought!!! He doesn’t know what true, emotional intimacy is anyway! And I have to work on realizing that for myself, too.
Learner,
It is so common for a man to say he is not getting any from the wife. I mean how many women would have an affair if they they thought he was still intimate with the with. There is no chance of a future.
I
think you really need to dig deep to understand why you got involved with a MM, and why it took two other OW to motivate you to make some changes. This is nuts! I would also ask, why you would believe his new story about the other women, as there has been a continuos string of lies ?
Please get yourself tested, as this man’s behavior has been very risky!
“I dont want to cause hurt any more. I need to clarify my values and get rid of this life sucker!”
don’t wait for dinner. Go NC like, NOW.
There is no happy ending coming up, there is just the one of power: where YOU OPT OUT NOW.
Learner, as you read through the posts, you might look at the one that talks about “texting all day and night” being a deceptive feature of non-relationships. One of our long-time BR members was getting texts every day waking her up and tucking her in with sweet nothings … what does it amount to in the end? Crumbs, as NML says. Some guy sneaking to the bathroom in the am to text you so his wife, whom he actually woke up next to, doesn’t see – Puh-leaze.
And you may find that one of the most mind-effing realizations, once you break it off, will be to see and spot the fake vulnerability these guys muster up.
They’re great actors, and usually believe their own hype, but in my experience, attached guys often play the poor-me, I-need-true-understanding card – they are masters at tugging on the maternal/caregiving instincts. The justification for being a lying shit is almost always “not wanting to hurt her/you/the other her. What – she will be devastated by the loss of his noble self? Whatever. It’s cowardly behaviour, is all.
But funny how they feel most “understood” when they’re getting their need for outside dalliances met, not when their lying, self-deceptive, condescending behaviour is genuinely looked at for what it is and truly “understood.”
Go through the pain of going cold-turkey on your dependence on this affair. Be sad. Then get angry. And so on. You will be free and happy soon enough.
Well said 🙂
Mags,
Very well said!
“And you may find that one of the most mind-effing realizations, once you break it off, will be to see and spot the fake vulnerability these guys muster up.” So true. So true.
Magnolia – your response gave me goosebumps as some of your ideas are what actually happens. He DID get up early to text me good morning from the bathroom, he DOES have a predictable way of seeming vulnerable – he has this facial expression reminiscent of a hurt child, and he kind of shrugs or slouches. And yes, he says his wife does not understand him and is cold. And now the other mistress is “becoming cold” too according to him. I said to him last night – well in 8 years from now, maybe you will think I am cold too, and will describe me as “baggage” like you describe your wife and other lover”. He said No, that would never happen. I am the only “special” person who understands him, apparently, and I have “changed him”. Yeah, yeah, I do realize the bullshit quality of all this. I am sick of all this crap. I do not exist to meet his needs or to be a “dalliance” (yuck!). I am gearing up to go NC next week, after this last dinner we have planned (unless he takes my suggestion and cancels it). Preparing now for the sad, angry, and then freedom and happiness.
Is this “cold” wife that he describes as “baggage” the same woman that he grumbled to you about cos he she put him out of her bed and made him sleep on the couch? If these women are cold towards him it’s cos they *are* understanding him – only too well. And if you stick around, so will you, Learner, and he *will* eventually describe you as ‘cold’ because you will be. and with good reason. If you really understood him you would be running away, very fast. He knows this. He relies on you failing to understand him.
Wow. Just wow, Fearless! This is so spot on for many of our messed up situations.
“If you really understood him you would be running away, very fast. He knows this. He relies on you failing to understand him.”.
Grace, Fearless, Runnergirl, Researchgirl, Polly, Lilly, Magnolia, Marianna, Lilia, Natalie et al. Thank you so much for your advice. I am 90% sure I can cancel this “last supper” with the MM. Seeing the truth and sense in all your words is making me not want to see him at all, ever again (altho I have to, as we are on a committee together through work). I will be drafting up an email today to send him. Not sure how to word it quite yet. I will keep all your ideas in mind as I write it up. Thanks again, so much!
they all they the same crap – that is why it works. i had two creatures like this(i did not know one was married in the beginning and the other had some “song and dance.”) looking back i am so ashamed of myself. THEY ARE MARRIED! by being with them we are complicit in creating a situation we ourselves would be DEVESTATED to be a part of(married to the oaf). If they want to date then they should get divorced – and quit being a coward. i don’t feel sorry for anyone involved in a situation like this – it is clear up front what you are getting into – in hindsight my actions repulse me. never, ever again. go NC on this fool!
Stella, very interested in your post because I have read BR for months and
there are so many women here suffering, unhappy because they became emotionally invested in married men.
I have wondered through the months why would someone
even cross that line?
Are these women desperate for a man’s
attention? Do they even think about their choice to get involved
from a moral perspective, am I wrong to actively want to break up a marriage, devastate another woman. do these women see getting this despicable man as
something wonderful?
I understand the motives of a married man-wife is greyer heavier, predictable
and now boring, less sexy than years ago, new girl is ego inflating cute, sexy,
understands me….
But for the life of me I have no idea why a
single woman would
even go out for a coffee with a married man. It makes me sick in my stomach to know there are so many men and women out there playing this game.
A single woman and a
mm=heartache. Why do they set themselves up for it?
Baffles me. You have
been enlightened.
Good for you!
Hi Simple Pleasures, I’m puzzled as to why you are talking to one person about lots of people who are reading this blog. There are all sorts of reasons why women are attracted to attached unavailable men and Natalie has written at length about it. Also the women who post on here go a long way to trying to explain it and move on from it. I’m not condoning it at all but if you try and empathise rather than judge might help you understand.
Learner,
He was busy being *married* (or, for all you know, running errands like seeing the other other woman – again) The closeness you think you have with him is illusionary. You think it’s all closeness and togetherness; he’s fibbing his arse off all over the place. There’s nothing “close” about that. It’s called cheating and lying and cheating and lying and cheating and cheating lying some more. People do not lie there way into and through multiple simultaneous relationships in order to avoid hurting people! (heard it all before and it’s a load of bollocks). Also, there’s nothing close about texting. He’s texting because he is *married*. married. married.
Natalie talks a lot about the need for shared values in healthy progressing relationships. Maybe as an OW it’s time to ask yourself what your values are? Define them for yourself. are you living them? if not, why not? And his values? What are those do you think? (that should be obvious to you by now). What I think OWs are reluctant to admit in these OW/MM situations is that she does share his very dubious values; if she didn’t, she wouldn’t be there. I’m not being judgmental. I have been where you are. Am just trying to wake you up. Good luck, sincerely.
Fearless – your comment about sharing the MM dubious values hit a nerve and I totally agree. At the end of the day for whatever reason/justification I gave myself for the affair I did NOT consider his wife’s feelings. If I had I would not have continued. As an accomplice to the MM I trampled all over her life, and allowed him to trample all over mine (even though she is unaware of the affair). These are not my values and I will never, never be part of such a shady ‘relationship’ again. Lesson learnt, but what a painful way to learn it.
We let them live the illusion with us, my ex MM and I never spoke of the wife or uttered her name. We spoke about his son but never her. I am three weeks NC and when my mind wanders to him and “missing him” I force myself to think of her and silently think of her name, its my mental bucket of cold water
Makes me very ashamed about doing that to a sister, never ever again
Fearless – no, I am not living my values. It sounds like a contradiction right now, but I do value trust, love, integrity, honesty, and in being with the MM/AC, I am not living any of them. I think that’s why I wake each day with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. It has improved since I have stopped being intimate with him, but now that I think about it, it’ was there this morning, after I went to the concert with him as “friends” but still ended up upsetting his wife (he lied to her and said he was out with work friends, and arrived home at 130am to see pillows on the couch for him). I know I have been deluding myself, and sharing his dubious values. I am waking up to all this, thank you. During the dinner next week, I am going to tell him I do not want contact with him ever again (except we do have to see each other for work – but that can be kept “strictly business” from now on). Thank you for for your help and good luck wishes.
Hi Learner, having read your posts today, I wonder why you are even thinking about going to dinner with this married man? What about the pillows on the couch? How will his wife feel when you go for dinner? I have been where you are Learner, and believe me the longer you leave it the worse and worse it becomes. Why not just go NC immediately? I fear you are spinning out your pain, better start your new AC life free TODAY! Mx
Learner, I agree with Marianna Miaow – what would be the use of another dinner with this man?
There doesn´t seem to be anything worth discussing with him, you already know how things stand.
You can´t win in this situation, the only thing you can do is get your dignity back – by not showing up. The MM has no respect for you – nor for anyone else in this setup except himself – so you can at least show him with your actions that you are worth more than the BS crumbs he is going to feed you on this dinner date.
Spot on!
Great post.
So in the last 19 months, I tossed the ex assclown and the bottle with him. Bastard loved using wine as coercion, his MO. As months passed, I saw a whole lotta unhealthy in my life in form of people, places and things. They ALL had to go. The biological pathological family is gone, the scapegoat (me) had left the building. I kicked my toxic friends to the curb. There were many. The only people I kept were my three sons and a daughter–oh yea, two of the daughter’s had to go too. One was with a flaming psychopath, the other is borderline, with predominant narcissistic traits. Oh yes…I am LOUD AND PROUD.
Because this had been lifetime behavior and habits (By the way, I can’t tell you how many holidays and birthdays were purposely destroyed by my pathological family and the two ex’s, just too many to remember!) I am doing something totally new. Engaging in ME. Saying NO. Had a guy ask me out recently. I picked up that he was an assclown within 24 hours and two chats. NEVER, EVER give a man your number when he demands it, rather than politely askin. Before awareness (I call it when I was hangin B.A’s) I would have given this man my phone number mistaking his lack of RESPECT and his DEMAND as FLATTERY and I wanna know you NOW girl! Um, no. So when he said to me, “You NEED to give me your phone number!” The first thing that came to mind was, “You NEED some manners!” He NEEDS to have my phone number? I did something new. I kicked his ass to the curb. You aren’t going to teach a man manners if he doesn’t have them and you’re definitely not going to teach them not to control you, Can you say BOUNDARY VIOLATION?
I didn’t doubt my choice. That’s how far I have come. And just one of the examples I could give, but there are many. It’s lonely, but it’s worth not having my ass wrapped up like a wiener in some ass clowns destruction menu.
But in all seriousness: I think it was divine intervention for awareness given this was my life story. A lifetime of abuse. I have severe PTSD, depression and chronic health problems that put the brakes on giving anymore of myself to anyone. If I didn’t stop, I was going to die and I knew it. Never think that your health cannot be seriously and even irreversibly affected, because it CAN. And there is not a gift more precious than your health IF YOU STILL HAVE IT. Some things will never be the…
Paying attention. BIG round of applause!!!!
I`m impressed with you Kelli, and yes, Assclowns should carry a serious health warning !! And you don`t realise how much they can cost you until your health is seriously affected. I can vouch for that. You sound like a fighter and hope you will feel great soon.
not a regular poster, but definitely a regular reader of NML and BR. This one really hit home for me because I feel like I’m in transition. I went through a rough time personally about 2 years ago that through BR and counseling helped me realize some of the ways I wasn’t helping myself (low self-esteem, poor boundaries, people-pleasing tendencies), and have been working hard to correct those. Now I’ve recently had another breakup and I’m…nonplussed. I’m not broken, I’m not down on myself. I am sad about the loss of a partner, but I am not lost.
At times I have sudden hard moments where I think “I have been working SO HARD, where is my payoff?” And then I realize its right in front of me. This new freedom, this new mental calm. This ability to loss a relationship but not lose myself. I realize I am still used to having a “busy mind” full of “how do I fix this’ or “what did I do wrong?” that I almost feel a bit unsure of this new calm. Having a busy mind used to equate to “being productive,” but now I realize it was just a way to keep these relationships, etc feeling important, whereas I can just as easily just…let them (and the stress) go. Will my ex partner and I be friends? What is he thinking? Who knows. That’s not really my concern anymore, my concern is me. And I’m doing well 🙂
Wow, Nat, and all of you, awesome post and comments – the most profound for me to date. I, too, have had a horrible week, a horrible year. One of being down, and lonely, and worked to death, at least that’s how it feels. I have been a year out from seeing my love, the MM. And so close to contacting him. Teetering on the edge of “if I make contact, it will feel so good” to “if he does respond, nothing has changed”. That in itself is depressing.
You know I too have had to give some I thought were my friends the boot. Cleaned most of the house with it. Few are left, and no best friends, only men who’ve stayed by my side, platonically (though one or two wish otherwise). I live rather remotely, work for myself, so it’s difficult to make new friends. And when I do they are so wrapped up in their men, they rarely come up for air! Could be worse, I suppose.
I needed a swift kick in the ass, Nat, and this is what the doctor ordered! I will read and re read it over the next couple of days. To wake up and know I’m blessed is what I long for, and what I know in my heart, it’s just hard to see through the cobwebs.
Thanks much all
Whatever it is that you ‘give’, it shouldn’t involve you compromising yourself further, because it’s having great imbalances that creates a loss in your life in the first place. It’s not like when your time is up on earth, you’re going to say “Feck! I really wish I’d spent more time busting my tail in shady relationships.”
Sitting here feeling wretched over making physical contact with my travelling alcoholic friend who has returned to my area for work. He greeted me with warmth, intimate kisses and hugs. He had been drinking for hours and continued to drink and as the night wore on, the conversation went from bad to worse.
In the guise of “being honest,” he talked about two women he “hooked up” with back home describing them both as “kids,” one an alcoholic, another with bi-polar disorder. Telling me he “loved” them, I was shown photos of both of them; one was a very young, shapely girl in a bikini. He is 38.
I felt sick to my stomach and humiliated, because, although I am attractive and look younger than my true age, I am not young and have a 20-year-old daughter who is probably around the age of those girls.
I recently had expensive and painful cosmetic surgery which I admit was to partially attract this much younger man so I am especially devastated by his actions.
All the while he was telling me how these girls know the score ~ they see him when he is in town, he goes on his merry way and they cheerfully accept the arrangement.
I am effing furious. The last conversation we had months ago, he claimed to want to settle down and needed to grow up. He claimed to have no ties, no girlfriends. We discussed having sex but that never materialized because of his impotence from alcoholism.
He has the ability to sleep with these women, I guess, although has been full of excuses when it comes to intimacy with me. A few posters have warned me about the unreliability of someone who drinks. Truly, it was like hanging with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
I care about this man but my obsession with him is destroying my mental health and self-esteem. This is definitely rock bottom for me.
I am shocked that he would be so hurtful and unfeeling. He is now living about eight miles from me and I am desperate to stop making contact.
blueberry,
You have all the information you need to make the right choices for yourself. What are you waiting for? I was raised by a binge drinking, alcohol dependent father. I have been relationship illiterate until I found BR, but one thing I always avoided like the plague in a man is alcohol dependency – or any addiction – I have always recognised it instantly as a danger zone. Aside from his drinking, this guy sounds like a creep; disrespectful to you and to all women. He is the booby prize. Who wants to twist themselves into a pretzel for that?
“You have all the information you need to make the right choices for yourself. What are you waiting for?”
Thank you, Fearless, for sharing the wisdom of your experience with your alcoholic dad.
It’s true, the more details I find out about this man, the worse he gets!
The fact that he is seeing two other very unhealthy women back home is a total turn-off. Who knows what kind of diseases he or these women are harboring? Yuk. I’m finally done.
But, I didn’t know. Now I do. Prior to this show and tell session, he dangled the promise of sex which never even remotely materialized. Thank God I dodged that bullet!
I feel like such a fool for being played & allowing him to humiliate and hurt me.
It’s interesting that you see him as disrespectful. Wasn’t he just being honest with me?
blueberry girl, his disrespect is not about words. It’s about actions. Any information can be presented in a respectful way or a disrespectful way and ‘honesty’ can be an outright insult even if the fact is true. That’s not the point.
The point here is that the man you are talking about has DONE things that are intensely disrespectful to you and all women. Imagine a man who has recently talked gently and candidly to you about the possibility of sharing an intimate sexual relationship with you. Now imagine visiting him drunk and showing him photos of two much older, richer, screwed-up men you have just slept with, describing them as ‘sugar daddies’ and saying you loved them. Seriously, would you describe this as ‘being honest’ with the man who had offered you a relationship, or being incredibly insulting, as though there was nothing about him you respected?
Bail out now and congratulate yourself on having augmented your good looks in good time to find someone who deserves you 🙂
Harriet, your opposing scenario really helps me understand why I feel so hurt and devastated.
I’ve accepted and excused his bad behavior for months because I truly felt deep down inside that I was too old for this man and undeserving of his attention, no matter how meager. He hit me right where my deepest insecurity and vulnerability lies as I near my 51st birthday.
You gals are helping me see it’s not a matter of age. His disrespectful, poor character (and of course, the drinking) make him unworthy of my care and kindness.
Thank you so much for your insight.
Blueberry, I want to second what Harriet just said! Smart lady 🙂 Let me give you three little words of caution here: Plastic Surgery Moratorium. Seriously, I had some things done in my younger years and it’s very easy to think, “Hmmmmm, well maybe I’ll ‘fix’ this/that/the other too!” To wit: I recently saw my plastic surgeon about a scar on my arm. Bless his heart, he’s an excellent surgeon and a very nice man, but his face has become increasingly immobilised over the years. He suggested I might do with a little botox over the eyebrows. I thought it was ridiculous, since I’m 30. Also, I thought (again, bless his heart) “Homeboy, your face doesn’t move. I’ll go skydiving before I let you near me with a needle.” Recently, I’ve been feeling a little down because I’ve attended approximately 600 weddings in the past two months dateless. Oh, everyone wants to hook me up with their cousin/pastor/limo driver/dude in charge of passing around the shrimp cocktail. Last night I went to the final wedding of the season and I got home and thought, “MAYBE I SHOULD BOTOX MY EYEBROWS?!” I laughed and laughed at myself this morning, but you really do have to like you for you (just like someone you’re dating has to!). Congrats on ditching this fool!!
Blueberry
you already knew he is disrespectful; you called it the “guise of honesty” and went on to say how unfeeling and hurtful you find it. These other young girls do not “know the score”. One of them has mental health problems, the other is an alcoholic. Neither are in any fit state to “know the score”. They are being exploited by an older man who knows how to play them (whether they realise it or not). He then tells you all about how he’s having sex with these two “kids”(!) who are around the same age as your own daughter, like he’s telling you, ‘now compete with that’ He sounds like a truly horrible manipulative man who needs a boot up the arse rather having his ego pumped up.
As usual, Fearless, you are right.
I know he’s being extremely disrespectful and that this feels bad, but my judgement where he is concerned has become so skewed! The mind effery has me reeling and I’m questioning myself, so your comments and insight into the situation are very much appreciated.
I actually feel for the first time (yep, it took a while) that this man is not only a code red but outright dangerous. The thought of being in his presence, hearing his sob stories and excuses and knowing what I know now, turns my stomach.
I’m already having lightened moments where I’m feeling relieved & free from his toxic hold.
thank you, thank you, all the ladies who have helped with this!
BG,
Knowingly taunting someone who you have tantalised with the offer of sex with sexual exploits with other women IS disrespectful, believe me! I think you know what to do!
You know what just dawned on me, this eu/ac people all think they are a prize. That delusion is not only perpetuated by the people they hook up with romantically but they already believe it themselves. I have a family member who is a drug addict, cant support herself, lost her kids because of it, who continuously self agrandizes on fb. She is overweight and lost most of her teeth, but she continuously post sexy pics of herself. She is only 23 yrs old! I watch all these men flirt with her and it spurs her on to think she is a grand prize. That is what we are doing when we put these men on a ‘pedestal and blow smoke up their butts’, they are not prizes anymore than this family member of mine. And I am telling myself this, if we step back and look at them for what they really are, then maybe we wouldnt get hooked up with them in the first place. Fearless you are right this guy is nothing but a disrespectfull azz.
sm, I am marveling at the truth of your post.
Why on earth would he show me photos of his young chicks? To make me jealous? Trigger my competitive spirit? Prove what a stud he is (I personally have evidence to the contrary).
He MUST think he’s a prize if these young girls are pursuing him (as he said).
Natalie is so right; where one woman will say “Hell, no!,” there are more in line willing to put up with their shady behavior.
I’m out of this line waiting for the booby prize (love that, Fearless)
So true, sm!
But the funny thing is that they will pursue you more once you stop believing they are that special… probably to get another chance to climb back on that pedestal. So that is the only brief moment we are the ones in control – when they realise one of their harem ladies has escaped.
I know Lilia, I have already suffered the consequences of that one. That’s back when I thought them ‘coming back’ was flattering. Nope, not anymore.
Blueberry girl,
I also am the daughter of an alcoholic and have an absolute horror of drinkers as a result. They actually disgust me. My mother threw him out as soon as she had the financial wherewithal. He was an academic and charming and I watched in disbelief as the women – all of them likeable, intelligent good people – processed through his life, he has had a number of marriages and LTRs but in the end all of these women admit defeat because with him the bottle always always came first.. His last marriage ended recently – she had stayed with him for many years for what reason I do not know, she was clearly angry and bitter for many years. perhaps their child. You would always be the other woman to the bottle. Save youself
Thank you for this post today. I’m in a challenging situation – work and income-related. I’ve been working too much for too long, including weekends, for too little compensation. This is my lead weight which I’m committed to solving and casting overboard. It’s not an easy thing to do in this economy, but this post has put more wind in my sails. I must do it!! So easy to get sucked into a hamster wheel situation and then find it really hard to get off. And re income, it’s not like one can just stop working while finding new work. Wish I could.
Since the Future Faker and I broke up in March, I’ve not put any effort into meeting more men. Rather, towards solving this major job situation, finding bits of time for fun with good friends, reading posts and comments here to fortify myself and strengthen the house of my spirit before I try dating again, once I have the time. I liked the comment above about pets. I have such a dear and loving kitty that is my constant companion when at home.
Taking a break from dating has not been bad! It has also given me new perspective; looking back from a distance gives clarity. I realize that some of this guy’s friends were as disingenuous as he was. This stands in stark contrast to the friends I’m spending time with – real, bright, caring, down to earth, smart, fun individuals. I think I need a man with these traits.
Could I please request some advice from you wonderful ladies? In an attempt to get closure and start/restart NC is it ever a good idea to tell the AC what you feel/think? I mean to get it off your chest and then move on?
I tried a hundred times over until I got it through my thick head that he would never ever get it, because he lacks emotional depth.
As my Counsellor said “you would be very lonely if you ended up living with this man”
Lilly,
I don’t think it is ever a good idea to tell them what you feel once you have got behind your decision to cut contact. You will get closure when you process what has happened and accept it. You won’t get that from them you get it from yourself. I’ve drafted all sorts of emails and thought about contacting my ex to tell him how I feel but then I stop and think what my motives are. It is always about trying to get validation from them. Either, look how sad you’ve made me or look how well I’m doing without you. Either way it is about them again, trying to get a reaction. If you truly want to move on you won’t do that by waiting for them to respond to your proclamations. You just keep a painful connection. I think it becomes about wanting them to say something to make you feel better and they never do that.
It is good to articulate and explore your feelings and to share them with people you can confide in or the people here but not to him. I can’t think of any reason why that would help. It might just give you a temporary high that’s all and we all know what comes after that.
Hi Lilly
It seems like a good idea to have the final talk to make sure you have said everything and hope he understands or something clicks for him and he changes his mind and wham he becomes the man you want him to be.
I guess what I’m saying is question yourself and your motives as to why you want the conversation.
Natalie has written posts on this subject.
I also had a similar conversation with the ex eum and he just didn’t want to know he acted as though I wasn’t speaking plain and simple english.
You could try writing an unsent letter.
Lilly, sorry, it’s me again – hope you don’t mind!
1. Thing is that mostly we want to tell him what we think and feel so that he’ll ‘get it’ and do something about it. Real NC (as opposed to faux NC) is not about getting a reaction from him, it’s about getting away from him so we can heal from the hurt and make better choices in future. If we are serious about NC we must commit to NO Contact – which means exactly that – NO contact.
2. He doesn’t care what you think and feel. If he cared he’d have left you alone rather than lying to you for years and involving you in his deceitful behaviour…. and all the rest.
3. What you’ll eventually see is that ‘closure’ from these men is something you have to do alone, for yourself; he will not help you.
4. Instead of telling him all how you feel (which will be unfulfilling and keep you stuck), focus on you and start understanding how and why you are in this ‘thing’. read BR and download Nat’s books. you don’t need him to understand you – YOU need to understand you. Deal with yourself – not with him (he’s a three-legged donkey; don’t waste any more time or energy whipping it).
Stick with BR.
I’d say no. If you say nothing, you have nothing later to berate yourself for – when you look back on it later at different times, you’re likely to either berate yourself for being too harsh, or not saying enough – and end up wasting a lot of energy on that, and possibly re-engaging to ‘make it better’.
I’d just say we’re not right for each other, I don’t hate you, but I won’t be in contact anymore. In fact, it’s what I did say, and its working – no ruminations, no messages, just my life in front of me.
I kept a journal for all the feelings, and in the end, they mostly all became about me, not him.
Lilly, my math professor terminated with me abruptly in Nov. Devastated I found BR. I wrote the unsent letter (the hurt you caused me), journalled, went to a
counselor, went through the holidays and my birthday, just hoping for a crumb of
affirmation. I maintained no email-phone contact, and low contact as we see each other at a club we belong to every week or so. He was polite, cordial wanted
things to be as if nothing had happened. I kept wanting to have NC with someone who I still had contact with so some weeks I would avoid eye contact and avoid
casual conversation. I was in the early stages of grieving-denial. Came Valentine’s
Day I broke down and sent a letter, my first real attempt at closure. It was a totally
positive love letter. It was a “why I loved you and you mattered to me in my life
letter”, there was no anger or bitterness, just sorrow that we couldn’t work things out. I got no response, no acknowledgment when I briefly would respond “hi” to him at the club. Then 2 months later in April we had a
conversation (first one since cold shoulder, no conversation “I can’t handle a
relationship” sentence at the club indicating he was done). He said, “you
wrote me a really nice letter in Feb. I said, “I wrote that from my heart”. He went
on to say, “I feel nothing negative about you, you are wonderful. It’s nothing you said or did…I’m limited.” So in a sentence he acknowledged it had nothing to do with me, it was his issues, and he actually validated me. We both felt good for the talk. It gave me the strength to go full force, no looking back no contact
starting in May. I totally avoid eye contact, and do not put myself near him so
that he can say “hi” to me at the club. It’s still not easy, I am not totally detached
yet. If you do contact him pre-no contact-do it as a positive, non vindicative way.
Expect to be ignored which will drive you nuts. But it may start the closing of the closure door for you.
.
Lilly, that´s exactly what I did – let him know I was stopping all contact with him because I was hurting and wanted to recover from the non-relationship. I didn´t really expect any reaction, I just wanted him to stop contacting me and it seemed the most polite way to say that.
Initially, he obliged. Then, he started to send me emails, im, chats. I didn´t respond much, would only say “hi” back, as if it was any other friend. So then he tried to resume the online flirting. I must say, it was really painful for me, on one hand, because it reminded me of my feelings for him, on the other, because I felt he was busting my boundaries – I had asked him not to play with my emotions and here he was doing it again!
Now it seems things have evolved to some sort of power struggle – he is trying to get me back to the position I was before (his adoring FBG), I´m trying hard not to fall into his manipulations. So I think in theory it may sound nice to get things off your chest and be able to move on, but these ACs won´t respect anything. Letting them know you´re moving on is like waving a red flag in front of a bull – it´s better to move away quietly, so they won´t even notice when you left.
In my experience, when we don’t heed the call and lighten our load voluntarily, the universe moves into action to do it for us! LOL
That’s what has happened to me anyway – a couple of times. This is the second of them! LOL Working two jobs 7 days a week to pay off the mortgage? No problems. Universe gave me a serious illness where I now can’t work AT ALL!! LOL
Had problems working fulltime whilst studyng part time also? NO problems! Universe saw to it that I’m too ill to study now alsoi!! LOL
Son being an emotionally abusive twit ? (underpinned by mental abuse of him by his Father). No problems! He doesn’t want contact with me for ‘at least a year’!! (I love him to bits of course, but am somewhat relieved to be spared any more of his abuse!)
Certain friends turned out to be frenemy’s? No problem! Seeing as everything else was being offloaded I got into the spirit of things and decided to ‘offload’ THEM too!! LOL
Now none of this is especially funny – I can assure you – but you will notice that I am laffing my head off!! Why? Because it happened (aside from the frenemies) with me having basically NO SAY in any of it!!! I LOVE the way the universe works! It can be counted on to give me just what I needed – every single time!! LOL 😉
This lead weight thing has been on my mind for a while because currently I am looking to drop the final piece concerning my ex and I am not sure how to make the final cut. I guess I have spend the last months an months thinking back over what happened, wondering where it all went wrong, blaming myself, blaming him..shoulda, woulda, coulda…upset that he never came back. Devastated that I had to stay away..it’s like you further emotionally invest by engaging in these activities. Now, I want to move to, have had a few genuine crushes..I am a different woman now.
But in a way I guess it hard to finally let go..to accept that I’ll probably never have a civil conversation with him again..that is if I ever see him…to accept he plays no role in my future and that his only purpose in my life was to teach me a lesson..and that’s what of of it and this amounts to.
I don’t regret instigating NC, I don’t as much..as much as I miss him. I’m just not sure how to finally make peace with this?
Sarah, I know exactly how you feel. I dumped my AC a year ago, walked away and cut all contact. He never made any attempt to fix it (which is a very good thing for me, although it hurt like hell). This year has been a blur of ruminating and obsessing over what just happened. That was a two year relationship, and for what purpose? I felt totally duped. I still imagine that one day we will have that closure talk, or something to make sense out of it. But really, if I’m honest with myself, I just want to know that he cared… because if he didn’t care the whole time he was going out with me, then it was like I was living a lie, right? And that’s the truth of it. I was living a lie, with a man who just used me, and who never cared about me. His actions said it all. Unfortunately, there is no closure on this one. Unlike my previous exes, this guy didn’t act like a human. And so the ending was appropriately, and horribly, inhumane and cold. I’ve seen him a couple of times in a bar, or whatever, and he looks right through me. He’s a narcissist, and once a narcissist is done with you, they’re done. It’s scary to see how they manipulate and use people, then toss them aside. I hear he’s got a new girlfriend and he’s begun the cycle all over again. All we can do is learn from it, move on, and build our self-esteem as protection from these toxic, awful people who never do anybody any good, ever. And do not expect answers from these guys. They don’t have any. They never did.
I think we can achieve more balance and happiness and get rid of the lead weights when we reappraise/re-affirm what our own values and life principles so that we can see quite clearly who and what needs to be got rid of.
I have been interested in Lilly’s predicament, above, in this respect and would like to add something more for her here and for other interested readers:
Lilly says,
“These are not my values and I will never, never be part of such a shady ‘relationship’ again.”
Lilly, that should include this current “relationship” – this MM is NOT an exception.
It’s not just about “caring'” about his wife; it’s about being complicit in – even a driving force behind – all the deceit and betrayal and hypocrisy which is a prerequisite for an affair to even get off the ground.
I have noticed in others and in myself that if we do not genuinely value integrity, honesty and sincerity in ourselves, we won’t value it in our choice of partner – hence we get involved with dishonest, insincere men who are badly lacking in integrity (Lilly, your MM?). Lilly, When you get your own values straight you’ll find you won’t want to know this man. You can do it! Never mind about what he thinks of you (his judgement is badly wanting!) just think more of yourself.
Lilly
Apologies to you. I think I’ve been mixing you up with Learner (who is struggling at the moment in OW position).
Lilly,
I will give it straight to you: NO! And you can take it to the bank. If we are at the point where no contact is needed, usually everything that had to be said has already been said a million times before. And with guys, actions speak louder than words. Whatever you will end up to say will only be interpreted as : “she still think about me and she wants to re-engage”. I believe its a really big mistake to depend on somebody else to give us closure, especially if they are flake/AC/EU. My mom is a sociopath to whom I did not talk to for 15 years, but most of my life I tried to find closure with her clones. With these folks, the only person who can give you closure is yourself and you do that by moving on and dealing with your emotional wounds. You want him to say or do something which will bring you peace, which obviously he has not been able to do before. So what makes you think it will happen because you contact him one last time? You really want to reach that ultimate point of ugliness and destruction which I did many, many years ago, when I told to my ex-lover and best friend that it was divine justice that he was dying of brain cancer because he spent his whole life messing with the brain of others? It did not matter that he messed enough with his wife she spent many months in the psychward and then proceeded to seduce me and wreck my relationship with my bf. The guy flew thousand of miles to see me and be sure I would not move on with my life by remaining emotionally connected. I also ended up to in the loonie bin followed by two years of NC with him until he contacted me to tell me he was dying. Which is when I gave him a piece of my mind. To this day, I regret my words as they were the last I ever told him. I did not have to get so low and I should have let him draw his own conclusions and make peace with his life on his terms. Walking away and staying away would have been more than enough as by then, he was estranged from everybody he cared about, including his wife and four children. Yup, that is as ugly as it can get when we keep going back at it, and we hurt enough. So go and knock yourself out if you want, but I doubt you will feel better.
A close door is the best way to tell both of you that you are fed up with this BS. You need to convince yourself its over, you don’t need to convince them. I had a friend who mindfucked me for suite for months and even after calling him on his crap and receiving from him many “I am sorry”, nothing changed. He was another one of my Maternal Redemption” projects. We had been so often through the cycle that I felt stuck spinning in a revolving door until one day I just wished him peace and happiness and said goodbye. I cut him lot of slack at the beginning because he said he was depressed, even wiped the slate cleaned once after he lied and kept me up a whole night by faking a suicide attempt to get my attention (it was pretty interesting when the police I had called told me he was alive and well after they checked on him). Then I just padlocked every lines of communications, IM, emails, phone etc…So, if you truly seek for closure just put a big sticky note on the fridge door: “IT’S OVER!
Isabel
Powerfully said.
I reconnected with an EU ex who I had 90% gotten over apart from my ego wanting validation. I ended up married to him even though I had long stopped fancying him. Had to force myself to “consummate” the marriage. I cheated on him less than a year later. That guy turned out to be abusive, and I still have the scars to show for it. While I was living with the abuser, the playa seduced me because I was too sad and miserable to see him for what he was, I finally broke up with him and spent three years in depression. I have now not dated in over six years.
ALL BECAUSE I MADE THAT STUPID PHONE CALL!!! DROP THE NEED TO GET CLOSURE!
If I hadn’t made that call, if I’d been single and given myself time to heal and grow for another month, another year, hell another two years, three years, five years I would have still come out better off.
A failed relationship, a hurtful breakup, a bad argument, unfinished business, even abuse is not going to eat up your time, energy, emotions, optimism and self-esteem as much as this going back and going back for more.
As the bible says, As a dog returns to its vomit so a fool repeats his folly.
Still, I would consider it worthwhile if just ONE OF YOU heeds my dire example, gives it up and finishes it. As Isabel says, IT’S OVER.
Isabel
“If we are at the point where no contact is needed, usually everything that had to be said has already been said a million times before.”
Yep. I can vouch for that one!
Lily – agee with the above comments. You won’t get closure, meaning the satisfaction of feeling heard and that he understands or apologizes for the effects of his actions. I’ve tried, and it hurts more if they ignore you or, worse, berate you or negate your heartfelt words. Better talk to your journal, and look for NMLs instruction on unsent letters. There is peace and healing in NC/silence. If he were a respectful and emotionally literate guy you would not need NC.
I would just like to report that tomorrow I’m going to court with my mom to witness her get rid of her ‘dead weight’. She is adopting my youngest niece which will in turn push her toxic, f’d up mother out her life and my mom’s life for good. It will allow my niece to finally start the process of healing and will eliminate the bullying of my mom that has continuously gone on from the authorities and the ‘mother’ on behalf of this little girl. The mothers family and my dad (parents divorced) are against it, but it is none of their damn business because my moms been taking care of this girl for 5 yrs and none of them stepped up to do it. I would just like to say that the lesson for me in this is to do what is good for you by getting rid of ‘sick’ people who cant treat people right and dont listen to anyones opinions who dont have your best interests in mind!
SM,
I hope all goes well and swiftly for yourself and your mom tomorrow. This is a really trying situation your mom and yourself are going through.
Thank you isabel!
A very, very big thank you for all your responses. By seeking closure I think I’m trying to release this terrible pain, but need to learn other ways of resolving this than interaction with him (more pain). I think I’m trying to close the door on the confusion of the past (ambiguous behaviour is mind destroying), so I can focus on the future. I will try the unsent letter. Also, thank you for making me laugh. Fearless– I like imagining him as a three legged donkey.
Hey, Lilly,
“Ambiguous behaviour is mind destroying.” IMO this is such a valuable piece of information to keep in mind and it gives you a good reason NOT to seek closure from him as you know deep down that you will get more ambiguity instead and you will eff up your own mind with that ambiguity.
If you can see that “maybes” never move, you can also see how treating others inconsistently (even if it’s “unconsciously”) actually erodes their certainties and blocks their progress by making them spin in one spot. In business, no-one sometimes pays bills and invoices, sometimes not, or sometimes arrives for appointments, sometimes not. Even more important then to seek consistency from someone who is closer to your heart than a business associate!
It would be better to seek closure from things that can close. You would be better off consciously opening and closing your front door fifty times – try it – I mean it — I guarantee it will make you laugh after a while which is more than he will do.
Sorry it’s me again, but I need to get this out. Part of my reason for wanting to tell the AC my feelings is associated with the loss of my baby. This was so traumatic for me and his reaction was so cruel that I have little peace of mind. I have barely directed any anger towards him, but have kept it all in. Losing my baby was so upsetting that I’m finding it difficult to let go. I’ve never received an explanation from the AC as to why he felt the need to add to my grief. How can I just move on an let it be?
Lilly, I am so so sorry for your loss.
About 6 years ago I was with an AC, on off on off for about 7 years. Towrds the end I lost a baby about 4 months pgnt, it was absolutely horrific, when I came home from the weekend in hospital (alone, he didn’t visit) he came round to my apartment and for the first time ever cooked me a meal. Man was I ever grateful and over the moon for that pile of crumbs. When we had finished eating he told me he didn’t want to see me any more and that it was over. It took some time but what I realized was this: he was incapable, limited, poorly developed; he didn’t think like me or any considered, humane person because he just was not capable. Trying to get an apology or some sense of remorse from this person was like trying to get one from a goldfish, pointless and impossible and meaningless.
Give yourself time to grieve what has happened to you, it is lonely in your own but he was never there to begin with. Can you see a therapist? Lean on friends? Family? He is a goldfish and you cant change his species, he cant give you the closure you need. Please take care you YOU x x
Oh Lilly and Marianna, I´m so sorry.
And Lilly, I´d say try to separate the AC from your loss, grieve for your baby as hard as it is. Don´t give him any more power, he´s not worth it – his behaviour only confirms that.
Marianna – Our experiences are so similar I lost my baby at 21 weeks. The loss of a child is unbelievably painful and I’m so sorry that you had to endure this too. The lack of care, empathy and cruelty from these men makes it all the harder to cope with. I’m lucky as I have a wonderful sister who hasn’t judged me at all (he was a MM) and is helping me. Other’s haven’t been so supportive. It’s encouraging that you have reached some understanding and I hope to get there one day.
Lilia you are right I need to separate the AC from my loss and grieve for my baby. It’s not that I expected him to feel the same, as Marianna says he was never there to begin with. What I’m struggling with and don’t understand is why he felt the need to twist the knife.
Hi Lilly, It’s Polly again. Love, I can hear your pain in your words. To you it feels like twisting the knife, but he will never take responsibility for that. His ego won’t let him admit to being such a complete shit. So I can only see more hurt for you if you seek anything from him.
But he will know what he has done and how disgracefully he has behaved. And on some level it will affect him and that will be his justice. You just won’t know about it. And maybe your justice will be to learn and grow and find some happiness. So sorry about you baby x
Lilly and Marianna,
I am so sad to hear about the loss of your babies. Trying to deal with these frustrating, demeaning men is hard enough without having to go through a heart-wrenching loss like that. I respect your strength and resilience.
Today I can proudly congratulate myself on having said no to the future faking casual virtual EU harem king. This is such a breakthrough for me! I was entangled in the push-pull dance for months and months, until finally, after he pulled back for over a month, I told him no more.
He tempted me with a get together (which is no more than an ego boost for him, a blow to my self esteem for me), I said no thanks, I can´t.
So now he´s getting a bit nervous, I think. But I don´t care. I find it all quite insulting, he tells me to meet in some kinky club during his lunch break and that I should dress sexy. At the same time, he is very manipulative about it, when I tell him that´s demeaning to me he pretends to be the one who is offended!
I´m so happy I can now see his BS for what it is, and protect myself better.This lead weight was a heavy one, I´m glad that I could let it go at last. Thank you Natalie and ladies for all of your wisdom, I couldn´t have done it without y´all!
Love this.
“Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that, and living alone won’t either, for solitiude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. It is the reason you are here on earth. You are here to risk your heart. You are here to be swallowed up. And when it happens that you are broken, or betrayed, or left, or hurt, or death brushes near, let yourself sit by an apple tree and listen to the apples falling all around you in heaps, wasting their sweetness. Tell yourself you tasted as many as you could.”
– Louise Erdrich
Thanks for that, it is beautiful… copying it in my diary.
Learner,
I have an image of your married man sitting in a restaurant waiting for your dinner date looking really bewildered because you haven’t turned up. No carefully composed emails or texts – just a no show!
Polly, ha! That’s an image worth savoring!
Learner,
Carefully composed email would look like this: “I’m done with this farce. Goodbye”
On the other hand, why bother your shirt? He’s more bothered about his wife having him sleep on the couch. You can draft as many emails as you want, set as many deadlines as you want, have as many ‘last’ dinners as you want – none of it will make a hoot of a difference. He’s a joke.
Polly and Fearless. Thanks for helping me to laugh at this mess! I love the thought of him sitting there while he waited after his 45 minute drive to get to the restaurant, as he slowly realized I had stood him up. I would love to show up in disguise just to watch him look like the fool he actually is! Seriously, though, I am having enough trouble hitting “send” on the email draft I have ready. The message is not nearly as direct as your suggestion Fearless, but it’s ballsy for me. His pathetic attempts at texted flattery and feigned interest in my day today (four texts, with 11 hours between the third and the fourth and final “sweet dreams” texts) are helping me to work up the nerve, as are the wonderful people here on this blog. I am so glad to have found this site! Thank you!
So sorry Learner…the others are right, at least from what I experienced. I went through so many ‘last suppers’ I didn’t need to eat for a year, followed by ‘last’ phone calls, followed by ‘last’ emails. The things we said during the ‘last’ discussions, we said for the prior two years. Deep down inside, I thought if I just said it one more time in a carefully crafted email or with tons of tears during the last supper, he’d spontaneously combust into the honest, caring, respectful guy I imagined instead of a lying, cheating SOB he was. I had the Pretty Woman complex pretty bad. I wish I would have been a no show with him and showed up sooner in my life instead. I didn’t think NC was possible because ours was such a unique (cough) situation. NC ended up being the best thing I’ve ever done. I off-loaded a 230 lb weight, FINALLY. (Thanks to you all.) Took some doing cos I’m as stubborn as a donkey but I so rarely think about him now. It’s like the urge is gone, FINALLY. You can do it too!
Here’s another version of a carefully crafted email: “I can no longer lie to myself, my friends, and family. I deserve better. Good bye”.
And Learner, if he screws around on his wife, he’ll lie straight up. He’s getting laid. By his wife. You owe him nothing. Its enough that he’s lying to you, don’t bull shit yourself. NC.
Thank you so much all who have encouraged me to cancel that “last” dinner date and go NC. I have decided to let him know today that I will not be attending dinner, nor continuing contact with him outside of necessary work activities.
Hi Lerner,
Good for you. Don’t give him another chance to reject you. May I suggest getting Natalie’s books, particularly the NC book to start. I made the mistake of waiting several months. The NC book is really helpful in describing the first few weeks of no contact and filled with handy advice. Sending you hugs and strength.