I often get asked what the danger signals are with men and I point out the key ones in my post on red flags (print and keep if you are drawn to assclowns) and how to spot emotionally unavailable men (print out and keep if you tend to be drawn to the emotionally stunted), but that doesn’t stop many readers from looking for loopholes and making excuses. One of the danger zones is about how your man communicates with you:
Let me be clear. Nobody, and I really do mean no-frickin-body is soooo busy that they can only manage to text, email or instant message you.
Nobody is so busy that they can only bring themselves to call you when they need an ego massage or a shag. If they can call you for a shag or an ego stroke, they’ve got time!
When a man relies primarily on text messaging, instant messenger, and email for communicating with you, it’s not because he’s a new age man, it’s not because the written word is his tool, and it’s not because he is trying to manage his time effectively.
He is a tool! He is using ‘new’ forms of communication to control you and how often you both correspond so that he can control the relationship. He wants to keep at a distance, and it’s likely that he’s emotionally unavailable, an assclown, or both.
He is LAZY! When a man is too lazy to communicate with you properly, why waste the air you breathe on him? Trust me, if lazy communication exists in your relationship, there are other problems lingering there just waiting for you to open up Pandora’s box.
Whatever excuses you’ve been making about why you both spend so much time texting or online – STOP! You are either saying bullsh*t to avoid the reality of him or repeating things that he has given you as an excuse for his rubbish relationship behaviour.
Have you ever spent loads of time analysing an email? I have!
Have you ever reread a text trying to gauge the meaning or read waaay more into it?
Have you spent ages agonising over when he’s going to respond to these forms of communication?
Have you wonder why you have to have conversations with him in a series of symbols and flirty IM”s even though you’ve been with him for 18 months?
Wondering if he has a wife or girlfriend stashed away?
Wondering why it took him so long to respond yet you know he’s been active within on his regular dating site because it says so?
Have you ever looked back on your ‘relationship’ and suddenly realised that you rarely spoke with each other in between meeting up?
Texting, instant messaging, and email are all open to interpretation and it’s very easy to misconstrue tone. If he relies on these means of communicating, you will build sandcastles in the sky because really, when you spend your time reading into things, you can make it any relationship that you want!
It’s one thing if he uses these forms of communication as secondary ways of communicating with you in conjunction with picking up the phone and seeing you face to face, but I certainly would not accept these means as your primary method of communication.
Men who don’t make an effort and who aren’t interested in forging a proper relationship with you will opt for these lazy forms of communication.
You may start out this way, particularly if you meet online but he should want to progress the conversation and let you into his life and quite frankly, men that keep you out are lazy communicators, lazy dates, and even lazier pseudo ‘boyfriends’.
You don’t need to work out the why’s, where’s and how’s and I certainly would not go down the route of trying to force him to communicate with you via other means – why should you have to force him to do something that comes naturally to people who actually want to have a relationship and want to put both feet in?
If this is the type of man you have, consider it a danger warning and start looking at your relationship in a more real light.
So in summary, if he doesn’t progress from these forms of communication – it’s a danger signal, period. If you spend a lot of time trying to figure out what he meant by his latest ‘message’, it means you’re not communicating directly enough and I would also take this as a mega warning signal.
If he only makes contact with you on an ad hoc basis – often when he wants or needs something – and then disappears till his next one line text message or stupid email, danger alert!
If you’re with a guy like this, you need to be asking yourself why you’re prepared to accept virtual crumbs…
Your thoughts?
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OMG! This is exactly how he communicated with me – his excuse was that he didn’t like talking on the phone. I have to admit that this kind of communication made me always question what he was doing… if I did try calling him, he would return the call with a text message that said “What do you want?” I have to admit, before him I never had this type of communication with a man – always a phone call, etc. I wanted to believe that just because of the “new technology” I didn’t want to come across as a “drama queen” by asking for a simple phone call.
The text messaging became so expensive for me at one point (before I actually contacted my cell phone company and asked or a text messaging plan) that I told him that my phone bills are getting very high and asked him to call rather than text, because the call was FREE!! That went in one ear and out the other.
I was starting to feel somewhat better about myself until reading this post. God, I feel so used and mad at myself for allowing this. It’s amazing what a woman can fall for when she’s looking for love. At point I can’t even look in the mirror.
You’re out. That’s what counts.
I suppose, but it still takes the fight out of me to read this post. But, thank you!!
Katie – Don’t let it take the fight out of you. The anger needs to be redirected at him, not yourself. You are taking responsibility and the blame for something lame he did to you – that doesn’t make sense. Of course you were reeled in – you didn’t know before, but now you do and that doesn’t make you a fool. Take a strong step toward the future and say that you will recognize this behavior next time. You can’t change the past, so forgive yourself.
ohhhhh that’s so the relationship (if you can call that) I’m in now, and has been from the beginning. I’ve been brewing for the last couple of days because he didn’t reply to my explicit text, thinking I said the wrong thing? I know this guy isn’t right for me (and loving annie as been BANGING on at me about this) And him only replying when he feels like it is doing my head in….
NEXT!!!!!
BBP
I know, I know. But to think that the next girl will probably get that phone call or whatever, really annoys the “sh**” out of me. Yes, I realize I am putting the emphasis on him even now that he’s decided that he no longer needs/wants me, but it still hurts – maybe more like a bruised ego. All these posts seem to say the same thing about moving on just making yourself the best person you can be, which is great and all, but when a person “rejects” you in such a way, it’s very hard to not feel anything but low. Sucks even worse to know that he’s already moved on.
THANK YOU !!!!!! It drives me crazy when my gf’s think thins sort of behavior is okay and I’m just being rigid and old-fashioned !
Plus, you cleared up my little overseas flirtation with this one too 🙂
Loving Annie
p.s. And Trixie ? I only try to warn you about what I see… I care because you have such a sweet heart, and don’t want you to get hurt.
We are all in the learning process. Me too 🙂
I have often thought that e-mail, texting, etc., is a form of technology that teaches us to be impersonal and detached, and it makes sense that the EUM would jump right on this form of communication as a means of keeping detached and disconnected. I find e-mail annoying on a personal level, and also on a business level–it’s too easy for people to communicate in not so nice ways because they don’t actually have to see you face to face. But, the other side of that coin is that when I used to get e-mails during the day at work from my ex-EUM when he was sharing a story with me, or sending me a joke, etc. those always made me smile. So, I guess e-mailing isn’t always a bad thing, but when that’s ALL they do, then that’s lame!
I know that feeling Katie – I was totally rejected, too and he moved on literally a week later. Uhhh. It’s totally demoralizing and hits you like a ton of bricks in the self esteem department. It’s totally like Through the Looking Glass – good-hearted people get shafted, losers seem to have it all. It’s really not fair, and maybe the next girl WILL get that phone call. The important part to keep in mind, though, is that you are actually coming out on top in the end because you’re not with him – no longer one unahappy half of a highly dysfunctional situation, and that’s the only kind of relationship he can have. Keep strong and keep up the NC – one of these days you will look back and it won’t hurt so much because you won’t be a part of it anymore and your strong self will. And, it’s ok to be mad/sad/upset when you hit a bump in the road – because unlike him, at least you have feelings.
I was dating an assclown for whom english was his third language. I honestly thought he preferred text and email because it was easier for him than speaking.
Now I can see that he was just manipulating the relationship and in such a clever way I didn’t even realise until 6 months in!!
He seemed to have a pattern, message me, if I responded in the way he wanted then he’d blow hot, if I didn’t then he’d disappear – presumably to teach me a lesson. I had put it down to cultural differences and language difficulties.
But thankfully I have now woken up to him, as his pattern was so predictable. He would often text at the same time every day, or ignore me for the same number of days each time. I wish I had noticed sooner but I was too busy trying to figure out what was going on so I missed all the clues!
Once I realised, I felt alternately sick, used, manipulated, stupid and heartbroken – and nc was hell, as I really wanted to believe I was wrong about him and it really was just a language and cultural misunderstanding.
I still get the odd message from him – but can see he is still in exactly the same pattern, so obviously he hasn’t stopped his games. Since seeing how big of an assclown he was I don’t bother responding. And I feel so much better for it!!!!
I read a book once entitled “He’s Just Not That Into You” Obnoxious title, but it had some really good insights and advice. One of the chapters talked about men who did not call and all the BS excuses they give as to why. At the end of the chapter it laid out a few bullet points that the reader was to have learned from the preceding chapter and one of those bullet points was “YOU DESERVE A FRICKIN’ PHONE CALL!! and I agree. If a man cannot spend a few mintues to call you (jeeesh nowadays they don’t even have to dial your number) then he’s an assclown, a phone call is not that hard.
I have that book…. it’s supposed to make women feel “better” – but I have to admit that I’m the one that felt like the a-hole after reading it. Geez, you can’t help but think what the hell was wrong with me that this guy couldn’t do one lousy thing like make a FREE phone call. My 2 favorite pieces of advice from that book are 1) Don’t date any man who doesn’t know why he does things and 2) If he’s creates expectations for you then doesn’t follow through on the little things, he will do the same for the big things. Be aware and realize that he’s ok with disappointing you. DAMN if this jerk didn’t do both!!
Kate, number 1) and 2) = EUM or a**clown. 🙂
Thanks Natalie. For all of you, I ended this exact type of relationship (and I use that loosely as there was no relationship) because the ONLY communication was one-liners via text or an occasional IM, even for a booty call! I got totally fed up with it, started a disconnect and then told him not to contact me anymore (by his own form of infantile communication an IM) and now almost into week 2 of NC and I have almost forgot this EUM!
What Natalie says is correct, this is just a management tool to control the relationship and manage down your expectiations by making you think either they have such a busy life or “new technology” makes me do it!
I think you have to ask yourself, when you get that text or IM and you respond and they don’t respond back for several days, maybe weeks, how does that make you feel? Personally, I don’t care for ambiguity, I would get a sharp pain from it and just when I was going to really end it, another text would show up like “wish we were together tonight” or Hey Baby, gosh he still must care! No Way did he care it was just another carrot dangling to string me along!
After stepping back from this, I really need to thank the man for showing me what a true assclown looks like and how to read this as a red flag in the future.
Ladies just walk away…..Gail!
I remember days and weeks waiting to hear from my former EUM. Hoping that this would be the day, the minute, the second he would call, but he never did. Natalie and others are right. These men are not only emotionally retarded, but control freaks. They want you on their terms and will whittle away at your self-esteem, your time and your sanity by dangling the proverbial carrot. Amen to you Gail, walk away from the carrot. Walk away from these men. They bring nothing but pain and disappointment into our lives. I’m tired of being disappointed and hurt. I want to be happy. I deserve that and more and so does every woman on this site.
Also, keep in mind – if he suddenly makes contact it is because HE NEEDS SOMETHING AND HE WANTS IT NOW 🙂
A guy – we had one date – contacted me after 17 months!! Did it take him that long to figure out there will be no date number ?
He needed something, I did not answer his e-mail.
I spent endless hours over emails, texts thinking and rethinking them. If we actually did speak on the phone I never knew what to say to him because I felt like I didn’t even know him anymore. All I knew was the person who lied, made excuses, flirted and sent me sexy inuendos. We never did “hook up” even though his txt msgs insinuated that we were. Then I would ask when and get reprimanded for being too needy. He just wanted the ego stroke, not me. It was horrible. I just wanted to feel close to him, so I played along only to regret it every time I responded. Hoping for something so much more than a mere “crumb”.
Electronic communication does not make a relationship. Ladies treat yourselves better so that you can BE better, happier and stronger than what these EUM’s give you credit for.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! How many damn hours spent analyzing emails..NEVER AGAIN. If he loves me, wants to have a relationship with me, he’ll pick up a damn phone.
Very good and informative post! The funny thing is that I know two ladies that do this. I think I understand them better now 🙂
When an EUM starts blowing cold I not only start NC but I delete every e-mail, text msg, voicemail he ever sent, that way I’m not tempted to agonize and lament over the situation or him… I literally erase him from my life. It’s hard, very hard to let go, but it’s do-able. I have to go cold turkey, if I don’t then I start to obsess, I won’t allow that to happen, he doesn’t deserve that much of my time, energy or mind space.
Betterwithouthim, he never asked you to get together?? How long did this go on??
Went on/off for 2 yrs. I would get fed up (because I knew it was wrong and I deserved better) and go NC for a month or two and then one email or text saying he “missed me” it would start back up. Talk about relationship crack.
Katie, I can empathize. I think you’re being very hard on yourself. You’re blaming yourself for his shortcomings and his bad behavior. I know because I’ve been there. For me, it started out as love at first sight along with a proper relationship and multiple phone calls every day. After several episodes of my EUM disappearing for months and then reappearing to profess his love, the “relationship” evolved to only text messaging. When I look back on this, I can’t believe that I allowed this to go on. All he would need was a response from me, and then he was soothed and would disappear again. I was tormented every time he would disappear, wondering what I had done wrong and when (and if) he would come back. When I wouldn’t respond to his texts, he would pester me with more texts asking me where I was and why I wasn’t responding until finally, I would give in and respond. Then – you guessed it – he would disappear AGAIN. When I finally told him that I was moving on, he said that he didn’t want me to and that he would call because we needed to talk. He never did call – but he certainly kept text messaging me! Even after he heard that I got married, he sent me another text message with his good wishes. He’s not a bad guy, but lazy in relationships certainly fits. Moving on from this shell of a “relationship” took a lot of strength – but I’m very glad that I did because I feel good about myself again. And Katie, you will, too. NML – thank you for this website.
Good for you Glittergirl! Katie- You can get through this too, just keep going and have faith!
Better, but you two NEVER got together?
Come to think about it now yeah we did hook up, if that’s what you call it. But not like you’re thinking- he ended up with a bj and I got nothing.
He kept promising the next time he would….you know do this or that. Just more BS.
This was exactly the tactic that my last boyfriend” used:
He would leave in the morning to “get us coffee and pastries” at Muffin Mania (literally a block away), and arrive an HOUR later with cold coffee and half eaten pastries. I later learned he used this walk to give a morning call to all of his other girlfriends! This made sense when I realized that I fit the pattern too–when I wasn’t with him, I got the “morning call” while he was off fetching pastries and coffee for HER. (I discovered the truth about it when one of his other (legions of) exes and I started comparing notes on the morning coffee run…
His other strategy was furious late night “work” (ie: online chat and email with the legion of other women) on the computer while I waited patiently (or fell asleep upstairs.)
Or the frequent texting with his other babes — once I stepped away to the ladies’ room and found him texting “I love you” on his cellphone. As I slipped by, I coyly asked: “Oh, does your mother do text messaging? How hip she is!”
After I finally faced up to the brutal truth that I was in a “take a number” relationship with a major player, I discovered that the entire time we were dating, he had an ad (with a big full face and body photo of himself) on a BDSM personals site advertising for a girl to tie up and flog!
The next time a man is a frequent texter, I’ll call back immediately — and keep calling! This will unnerve the other girls, and frazzle him.
Two of the men I’ve dated since him had “exes” frantically texting them in the middle of our dates. Both of these guys were quickly shelved into my “OUT” box.
Anyway, I have more confessions and rants about online dating and the way it’s destroyed our relationship on my blog, “Shopping for Love” http://www.braindancing.blogspot.com
Brain dancer, love that “take a number” relationship! Perfect! Very funny….Gail
I met a guy online who lived out of state so we communicated through instant messenger for about 6 months before we met. After we met phone calls were about once weekly cause he controlled that, meanwhile I found myself glued to the computer waiting for him to sign on. One night after he’d visited twice I said enough! If you want to talk to me then call, no more IM. I cut that form of communication cold turkey, and he started calling nearly everyday. Of course he was still unavailable in the end, but I’ve never allowed another guy to just IM me when it was convenient for him. Now text messaging is a beast I still need to learn to deal with! I’m finding myself telling most men that I meet that I’m not good with text and don’t like it. They seem to get a hint that they better only text me in case of emergency.
Brain Dancer,
What a horrible situation. Sounds like a true narcissist. Did you all confront him on this behavior?
Gaynor, no, he doesn’t sound like a narcissist, he is a Player.
Betterwithouthim, When I read your “he ended up with a bj and I got nothing.” – please, don’t ever see the National Lampoon movie “Repli-Kate”. There is a line they use a couple of times that goes, “The best part of a bj is 10 minutes of no talking.” How sweet is that? Then they turn the roles around for the finale of the film – with her making the observation about him going down.
My thinking is do only what you want to do. Don’t ever do something because you think it will count for something else, or be reciprocated. If you have to be “talked into” sex – throw the bum out. Sex is something you should do for yourself, and shared with your partner. Sex should be a gift. If the gift isn’t graciously accepted, and respected – then you are not interacting with a partner.
NML, Two thoughts about all the texting and e-communication. First is the shared breaths thing. It takes time, together, in small places, for our bodies to adapt and adjust to a partner. Too little physical proximity – too few shared breaths – and the relationship bond stays social, not biological. Then, too, much communication is non-verbal. If you aren’t spending time together, you aren’t learning each other’s truths, dreams, and needs. You aren’t letting your partner learn about you.
The other thought is about time. You point out he is using “managing his time” as an excuse to text, email, even phone, to control the relationship. The other part of the equation is that – a relationship takes time. If he doesn’t have time to visit, to share events and activities, to share breaths aside from sex – he just isn’t available. It doesn’t matter if his wife keeps him on a leash he slips once in a while, whether he spends days on end with his garage-band buddies, or spends his days building his career – he is *not* available or interested in building a relationship. He might or might not allow someone to hand him a ready-made “relationship-like” situation – but he won’t be helping, he won’t have anything invested, and won’t think twice about walking away or sneaking around.
Brad, this part of your post I am not sure what you are saying, NML is not saying he is using “managing his time” as an excuse,she said he is NOT trying to manage his time effectively. Please explain this part of your post:
The other thought is about time. You point out he is using “managing his time†as an excuse to text, email, even phone, to control the relationship. The other part of the equation is that – a relationship takes time. If he doesn’t have time to visit, to share events and activities, to share breaths aside from sex – he just isn’t available. It doesn’t matter if his wife keeps him on a leash he slips once in a while, whether he spends days on end with his garage-band buddies, or spends his days building his career – he is *not* available or interested in building a relationship. He might or might not allow someone to hand him a ready-made “relationship-like†situation – but he won’t be helping, he won’t have anything invested, and won’t think twice about walking away or sneaking around.
Astelle, “When a man relies primarily on text messaging, instant messenger, and email for communicating with you, it’s not because he’s a new age man, it’s not because the written word is his tool, and *it’s not because he is trying to manage his time effectively*.”
This statement of NML’s presents three excuses the bozo uses to “justisfy” texting and emails instead of getting together. The reality is that he *is* managing your access to him. The *story* is that he is taking advantage of technology marvels, he is being creative in managing his time, he is more comfortable with the written word.
Whether or not I understood this paragraph correctly, the fact remains – texting and emails, and even many phone calls *interfere* with growing and living a healthy relationship. The e-contact provides a semblance of contact, an alibi. Yes, you exchange a message (if he actually answers). But that is even less satisfying than a pen pal using snail mail. At least when you write letters, you get a more complete expression of ideas and thoughts.
And the point is that if most of your communication is electronic – you aren’t getting enough face time to be friends, let alone build a relationship. What is left is basically a booty call.
Oh God…This was exactly what happened with me right from the beginning.My EUM told me that he finds messages non intrusive…so it was only texting for use…lengthy sms messages for almost a year…Most of the times I would take the initiative…He would reoly at his pace and if I asked him the reason for his late response his rude reply would be-I am not a coffee vending machine or something to reply instantly to you.Initially I used to get hurt reading this..I guess later on I developed thick skin..He would accuse me of being demanding…high maintenance and what not…I always ended up feeling that something was wrong with me…How pathetic.Can you believe that in the last one year we met only twice..though both of us are in the same city…He always has some excuse or the other to avoid meeting me..to avoid calling me…but he used to send me these long,rude texts..most of the time pointing out my mistakes…calling me insensitive,demanding..I cannot even remember all that he has accused me of so far when all that I wanted was to just be there for him,be his friend,confidante….He never understands…Most of our fights and patch ups happened over smses…how tragic..Actually I don’t blame this man at all…Probably my self esteem had taken such a beating that I was prepared to put up with so little…As NML says..accept the crumbs that he dished out to me…that too not regularly..at his pace and at his convenience…And analysing his messages..I do not know how many times I have done that…I feel sick now…Probably he felt like contacting me only when he had nobody else to talk to…But I would interpret those random calls differently.I would think that he really cared about me,finally realized my importance and what not…And then things would go back to square one…the same indifference,unavailability,harsh words….The cycle would start all over
again.This man has shattered my confidence so much that now I feel that I am not worthy of being loved by anybody else….
Brooke- that’s the problem with these unhealthy relationships. All of the women on here have been there, or are on their way out of the miserable relationship. You have hit the nail on the head. It’s a matter of self esteem and knowing your worth. I would recommend counseling/therapy if you are not in it as of yet. Good Luck!
My ex-EUM would email me most of the time. He would call and we had a relationship in which we would see each other 1-2 times a week. He just wouldn’t let the relationship grow past there. We did spend many hours together when we saw each other, took vacations together, went out with HIS friends and family. However, he used the email as a way to manage down my expectations and I had to many times tell him to call and not email…at times I would just ignore the emails and he would get the hint. How pathetic, that I would even have to ask for phone calls!!! The more time that passes with NC…I’m going on 2 1/2 months, the more I realize how warped my sense of a relationship was. I was so physically attracted to him, wanted to be loved, and wanted HIM to be the ONE that I was living in a fantasy world and not the REALITY of the relationship. That’s why I was in so much pain, because each glimpse of reality would cause pain. The new, healthier me knows that relationships are built by two people who both have 2 feet in the relationship…takes time and intimacy…not just dating, sex and emails!!!
I, too have been down this road. The lazy relationship will most likely end with him breaking up with you over a text message, such as” R U sure you want to date me? I don’t have time for a relationship right now. I apologize.”
Just to echo everyone else-mine has mostly always text messaged me, when he wanted something..there were a couple of times he would call-always for some booty-to make sure I was on my way, or once at 4:15 a.m., urging me to “throw on some clothes, get some coffee and come on over”…. I have also desperately invented reasons to text him, just to keep the “connection” (in my mind only!) going-. To my eternal shame and wonderment, I just did this YESTERDAY! even after feeling so empowered by all the stories on this site.
Of course there’s been no reply. I just wonder how many times I need to be hit over the head by the obvious…
I can totally relate to over-analysing texts, keeping them for MONTHS, going over them with my friends, trying to establish that he just can’t resist me…SO foolish and I, like some of you other ladies, have depleted my self esteem to some of the lowest levels yet. Why do I need his opinion of me to feel worthy? I know if I get a reply, I’ll have a horribly ambivalent reaction of “I won/I couldn’t care less/Oh God, what is he going to say? / I’m so happy he is acknowledging my existence”..
I have been looking on here for several weeks now and attribute these blogs to being able to maintain NC with the “a**clown”. It is horrifying to hear all the stories and I swear every one of them sounds like the guy I’ve wasted the past 2 1/2 years on. Are you ladies sure we’re not all dating the same guy? =)
I would only like to say that I am pi**ed off that these men have benefited from our personal (hang-ups? low self-esteem? I’m not sure? etc). And they have literally fed off of it…not just one gal but several. I can be sure, he will only use the next girl after me and the one after that…..That should bring me comfort (that it’s not me anymore) but then it means that someone else gets screwed too! And I never want that jerk to “get off” on someone else by using his deceit. Thanks ladies for sharing your hardship because I am finally seeing the light….
Gosh! I think I’m onlyjust coming to grips with the reality of the EUM I got myself conncted to. I can relate to all the feelings you guys feel/felt. It’s comforting to know it’s not just me. I thought I must be so high maintenance. He even said I was a “bunny boiler” because I simply wanted some sort of emotional connection after we slept together….. Just a text(how bad is that…….I reduced my standards!) to say something re our time together! He tested me 2 days later with a “been so flat out at work!” WHATEVER! This expectation was too much for him! Made me a stalker……! Honestly! What is with these fricken creeps! I hatemyself for not being more guarded!
What do you mean by “been so flat out at work?”
You know I’m just wondering how many women posting here met their EUM’s online? I’m really starting to dislike online dating. There are just too many choices and it’s too easy to discard people and go on to the next one in line.. The dating world is messed up right now. It’s hard to meet people locally. Who wants to hang out in bars? People used to live in neigborhoods where they knew their neighbors so they could meet people through neighborhood connections. Or they may have gone to dances,, whatever. Now people are so busy just trying to make a living. They don’t go out as much and so it’s hard to find men to date. If you’re divorced you may have lost your friend network durng the split. So we turn to online dating.
I think for me I was reluctant to let go of my EUM in part because the thought of starting over in this very, very difficult dating scene was so daunting. I’m not saying that was the only reason but it does keep people in bad relationships longer, I think, because it’s really hard to meet people, just to date, let alone finding a steady boyfriend or a serious relationship.
Another thing is age. It’s easier to find dates when you’re younger. Once you hit the 45 mark it starts to get a whole lot harder. Many men have become so picky about looks because of all their choices. So I think the online scene plays into woman’s insecurities. They might think well, if I leave my EUM will I find another man? Is my sell by date passing? So they put up with crap because of their insecurites and it’s not all in their heads. This is a youth oriented society. .
I’m not old or overweight but I’m bringing this up because I see this dynamic on dating sites all the time. You can almost taste the desperation on some of these sites. People selling themselves, trying to find “the one”. When you find someone you think has potential, he could be talking to four other women. It’s crazy out there. Maybe that’s why so many of us end up with EUM’s because they function so well on the Internet and love that form of communication.
Wow! Yes, it was online! A chatroom for a reality show.
I met mine through a mutual friend.
I met mine on an online dating site. I agree that there are a lot of playas out there on the dating sites, but they can be anywhere…just that the dating sites are ripe for guys who communicate mostly by email. But, it’s not totally the dating site that is the problem, it was us for having too little self esteem and putting up with crap relationships that are all about them, all on their terms.
The NC really does wonders, I feel so much better and seeing myself in the relationship more clearly. I don’t like who I was in that psuedo relationship, accepting crumbs and putting him on a pedestal. He was lucky to have me interested in him and I thought he was the prize. I was sadly mistaken…warped…but feeling better everyday.
I went on a date tonight. The guy was very nice, made me feel like I was special. No fireworks, but I have to realize that part of the fireworks I used to feel was the challenge of not getting what I wanted…just so confusing…but my point being that there are nice men out there!
Sucked in, it’s so great that you should mention “lowering standards” b/c after five (count em!) of NC, I’ve often thought of what to say to all the people in my life who they ask me why I put myself through it all…and I was thinking of saying that I learned a big lesson – never lower your standards.
oh five – that’s months…sorry!
I guess my assclown was an EUM right from day one.I knew it too but did not want to face reality.I can only remember those horrible times when he would not reply to my messages,answer my calls,say all kinds of nasty things to me(like leave me alone,I am fed up of you,I have reached a tipping point)…yes yes I know what alll of you must be thinking…You must be wondering how I put up with all this nonsense…Well I did and continued to think about him,long for him…Now lokking back I realise the damage that he caused to my self esteem.He was literally controlling my life.I would feel elated when I receive his messages and my mood would be upbeat…But when we would have our share of fights…I would be a nervous wreck…wouldn’t interact with people around me….probably they alsost have wondered why I behaved in such a weird manner.God…the time I spent on this man…To think that it was that difficult for me to let go and move on…Actually…there was nothing to let go off….That’s the truth..Everything was onesided….only from my side…I guess somewhere I thought that this EUM would be the companion I hae been looking for so much so that I was smitten by some of his good qualities and completely glossed over all the nonsense that he did….He was just not there for me when I wanted him,his support….And the moment I decide to start NC and would successfully practise it for a week or two,he would call me.Like a fool I would answer his calls again…Frankly I don’t know what I expected out of him..I was a fool to think that things would be better…But they never did…The very next day(believe me,the very next day)this man would go back to being his rude and indifferent self.The worst part is our last fight which happened somwhere in October was really really bitter…He told me all kinds of nasty things…and hurt me to the core..all because I was angry with him because he refused to show up at one of our planned meetings….He hurt me even on my birthday which was sometime around the end of October.I practised NC for a while.Last week,he suddenly called me again and like a fool I answered his call thinking that things would be better…No way….They would never get better…The very next day I ended up cursing myself for not sticking to the NC rule…
I dont think it matters where you meet them – I met mine through a friend who was also taken in (he was all charm & over-blown gestures in the beginning) as soon as he had me where he wanted me though I was soon sitting in work every day with my stomach twisted in knots waiting for a text or e-mail, I was such a nervous wreck in the end & he knew how he had me – of course I would always have to contact him out of desperation & would then have the pleasure of having him tell me how demanding i was and how he was sick of me trying to control him all the time & being so needy!!! that always followed with him needing space (which really meant having a couple of weeks off to go and screw as many other women as he could) I of course would put my life on hold waiting for him to come back as he had made me feel that this was all my fault in the first place!!…………………..never again!!
@ brooke – “yes yes I know what alll of you must be thinking”. Actually, it is more like “No, I remember doing that.” We do the best we know how, at the time.
What we are trying to learn here is to lean how, and most especially, *why* to make choices in the future. We need to make better choices, because that is the only way we might (hopefully!) avoid the problems we are starting to understand.
The really sad part is that sticking with him, continuing to want a better relationship, putting up with unhappy times – your reactions and what you did are are good and healthy skills, that keep a relationship together. Their are just two problems. First, you picked an inappropriate guy, and don’t fully understand, yet, you to avoid similarly inappropriate prospects. Avoiding the wrong guys means you need to accept different values in your life. And that is the second problem, you accepted disrespect from your partner, and you didn’t respect yourself. Good character includes respect, honor, honesty, trust, and loyalty. And a partner has to be available. You picked a perpetual dater, and expected to make him your mate. It doesn’t work that way.
“there was nothing to let go of”. I think you might be missing the point. There actually is a very strong relationship, from your point of view. You are bound to him physically, emotionally, and, somewhat, socially. As you drop him and begin to move on, you will find that you need to grieve as much as a loving wife that loses her husband to cancer or accident – the bonds are strong, and restoring yourself will take time and will hurt. Your relationship may not be good, but you are certainly involved with him.
You are tormenting yourself and him, and you seem to mis-understand what No Contact means. This is not something you do if you believe there is a chance for a relationship, it will not change him, nor will NC make anything else better.
No Contact is a way to *end* your relationship with an abusive, cheating, lying, partner – an EUM. End. As in, you are going to cause him so much angst and pain and frustration he will never trust you again – so you have to mean it when you start.
No Contact is a way to defend yourself against someone that you need to avoid to stop the hurting. That is, you stop the fresh injuries – with the end of the relationship you will be grieving, and lonely, and hurt, and despair of finding answers about life and love. Because you picked an inappropriate partner, one that isn’t suitable for a relationship, and you stayed with you, you have some self-healing to confront there, too.
No Contact is meant to be a shield for you to work on your self esteem, learning who you are and learning about respect, and trust, and honesty in yourself and in those you choose to spend time with – family, friends, as well as with intimate partners. NC is meant to be a time of healing, and recovery, and choosing healthy values and expectations.
Shoes don’t stretch, and men don’t change. NC will never be something that will help a relationship – except assure that it ends. NC is the hope for a better future, with a different, hopefully healthy relationship with an appropriate mate prospect.
@ Sucked in – “I hate myself for not being more guarded”. Instead of being more guarded, look for a better man. One that is respectful, honest, and caring. Stick to the basics, good character, good reputation, good emotional bonds to family, friends, animals. Pick a guy that isn”t trying to date – one that wants someone for a mate prospect. Remember, for whatever his faults – you decided to date him, and sleep with him.
Don’t confuse a sex adventure with selecting a mate. If the relationship isn’t there, and the closeness, then sex will *not* create a useful relationship. I like the “90 day probation” period idea. A company won’t provide benefits for a new worker until they show they will show up and work for a couple-three months. So. don’t give out “benefits” without expecting him to last the probation period. And if the relationship and closeness don’t work out – kick the bum out soonest.
Brad,
I agree with your post completely.
You stated that we should “pick a guy who isn’t trying to date,” well mine toLd me he wanted a relationship and was in love with me. This is what makes it hard to detect an EUM until after he starts showing his true colors.
Gaynor, It’s about having self esteem and being able to detect the BS. How long were you dating him when he told you he was in love with you? Was it just to get into your knickers? I think we all have that sixth sense and know in our gut if the guy is EUM in some way. I know with my ex, there was a sign after the second date, when he emailed instead of calling to cancel our third date. I had the “epiphany” at that day when the phone never rang (I didn’t think to check the email) and thought WOW, I GUESS HE’S JUST NOT AS INTERESTED AS I INITIALLY THOUGHT. However, after reading his email and then I called him, I glazed the thought and feeling over because I was so CRAZY ABOUT HIM. (Literally, I was CRAZY over him). My point being, I think we know deep down, but for whatever our insecurities are, our fears, our not believing we are worthy to be loved, we focus on their potential instead of the reality and keep waiting for things to change. I stayed with him for 2 years after that…most of it from month 3 on was a rollercoaster ride.
The beauty of this last EUM relationship and this site and counseling and self analysis has shown me that I too was EUM, just not as extreme as the man I fell in love with. This journey has made me grow, and learn to love myself and change my value system and what I find important in a man. I’m still working on it…and everyday is a new experience.
Brad~ You bring up an excellent point with ……”No Contact is a way to defend yourself against someone that you need to avoid to stop the hurting”. I started the NC about 2 weeks ago and he texted again last night but I didn’t reply….yet today I am just dreading addtional texts and somehow it draws me right back into the mind game again! He’s never been quite this assertive in the past but then, I never actually initiated NC before….so perhaps he’s just a little perplexed.
Your comment helped me to solidify why I started this to begin with. NC is NOT supposed to be a mind-screw (for me or him)…..it’s supposed to be the end to a horribly one-sided relationship.
Finally, I agree. I was EUW as well.
We were dating about two-months when he told me he loved me. Big red flag!! We saw one another 4 days out of the week and spoke on the phone for at least four-hours every day. I slept with him before he told me he loved me, I had no intention of gettinging anything serious with him (EUW). We dated a total of three-months, and then I fell in love, that’s when everything changed. It was like Jekyll & Hyde. He was very dependable when we were dating, that is why it was so strange.
I agree this site has really helped me see my ex-EUM and myself in a much clearer light. I will never allow myself to be put in this position again!
Gaynor – my eum told me he was falling in love with me on week three!! i even knew it was crazy at the time but got so carried away in the moment – I must of been so desperate to have someone love me & I he must of sensed that from a hundred miles away! he told me so much b/s yet I happily went along with it, he too turned into a jekyll & hyde around 3 months in (although there were signs there from day one) – on week 3 of no contact at the moment – he still contacted me today though, a text asking me for lunch -last week I woke up to 20 drunken messages saying – f**K you, you took me for everything etc etc etc, I just want it to stop.
Gaynor, I agree it must have been hard to see coming when he was doing all of the right things in the beginning. He obviously shifted his behavior as soon as he felt you wanted him…there are so many of these men out there…they should come with a warning label. I guess we all have something to learn about ourselves from these relationships…I think in the past when a relationship didn’t work out, I would blame myself and then think I had to just be alert to certain behaviors…now I know, I had to change…I can’t be “that pathetic girl” anymore, willing to accept sh** from guys just because I thought they were “hot” and they made me laugh and I had so much FUN…well looking back, it wasn’t all that much fun wondering when he would call, would he keep his word, would he bail out on plans at the last minute, would I keep walking on eggshells not to scare him off, would I continue crying myself to sleep night after night, would I get to see him more than once this week? I could go on…I’m just starting to feel happy again with myself and I know I will never accept this type of treatment from anyone ever again. I also know, to really develop a relationship with someone new, I have to be willing to be vunerable and let them get to know me and share parts of myself that I was afraid to…
Never,
When mine told me, he said I “looked like a deer caught in headlights. It freaked me out, being an EUW and all.
Did the text only request lunch????
Finally,
I am so glad you are in a good place.
I agree they should come with a warning label. The funny thing is is that he has told me repeatedly that he is responsible and it has nothing to do with me, none of the blame game I hear about from so many other women. He knows he is the cause but chooses not to make any changes. His loss!!!!
And you’re right, we have to allow ourselves to become vulnerable to another relationship. Not all men are so screwed up and dysfunctional. The good side to all of this nonsense is that I realize I am finally ready to incorporate someone into my life completely.
Gaynor,
Mine told me “it was him totally, I wasn’t to blame, what I wanted was normal, he was screwed up”, yada, yada, yada…and that used to make me feel that he was a good guy…looking through a different lense today, I think it was all part of the BS act that he has down pat…I’m glad you are also feeling ready for a new relationship…Keep us posted!!!
You too, hon!
Brad, great post, but I don’t agree with what you sais:
“No Contact is a way to *end* your relationship with an abusive, cheating, lying, partner – an EUM. End. As in, you are going to cause him so much angst and pain and frustration he will never trust you again – so you have to mean it when you start.”
You are putting him in the “normal” bucket of men with your statement.
How is she causing him angst, pain and frustration?
Astelle, the frustration and anger are about losing contact – losing control of her. A control freak will take this personally. You are right, an EUM won’t feel hurt that the relationship ended unexpectedly. But losing control, losing that fallback girl, that will likely annoy.
Ah, I see what you mean. Because what ends for the EUM is not a relationship, but control, he will likely be quite willing to let her again give him control over her. He may need to punish her for causing him inconvenience, but that just re-establishes his control.
reading all the above posts i have just realized something..
I met my eum when he was working at a comedy venue he was a comedian there he came up to me and my friends (I didnt know he was a comedian) and intorduced himself etc gave me his phone number and swaggered off. then i met him again that night at the bar and he bought me a drink and told me his gf was there.. other things happened that night but red flags were there .. i ignored them thinking that nothing more will come of this..
when we met up again he’d got rid of the girlfriend but spent the ages over the next month or so blabbing on and on about her till i finally spoke up… but he didn’t have me where he wanted me I didn’t really know who he was as a comedian a blow to his ego that night at the comedy club I didn’t really listen to his act another blow to his ego.. but gradually he sucked me in till I trusted him got a bit comfortable and BOOOM next please..
its funny though because I was the texter .. always looking for that crumb because his phone calls were infrequent and followed a pattern phone call one hi how are you .. blah I always felt like it was a test if i did well at the end he would reward me with phone call number two that he would give me the time etc for our next meet up..
he managed down my expectations to the point where he would make me feel bad if I called him one time he told me off cos he was on his computer … ow he couldn’t take 5 minutes to say hi.. thats why i texted … oh well lesson learnt ……
Gaynor – yes just a text asking if I wanted lunch, no how are you?, how are you keeping?, can we talk? or anything like that – a month or so ago I would of jumped at the chance of meeting him(god only knows why) thinking his text was a sign he was missing me too & wanted to see me – now ive been doing the nc though & im a lot clearer about things, I fully realise, its not about meeting me for lunch or that hes missing me – he just needs to know hes still in control and that im still there, still his fallback girl! he couldnt give a rats ass how I actually am, I had a major hospital appointment 2 weeks ago – there was no text asking how I was then either!! Brad K is right, these men are total control freaks, he cant bare the fact that I am no longer accepting contact & trying to move on – but the blinkers really have come off for me, I know full well hes not sat at home pining for me, in fact ive already been told hes been dating someone else – so why bother me??!! simple, he needs attention, an ego stroke and just to know im still there (just in case!!) , it just makes me so sad that I didnt realise all this alot sooner, I spent 21/2 years of hell with this man and even when I found the strength to move out – a further 3 months on the rollercoaster!!
My stomach is still in knots though as I can predict whats coming next – he will ask to see me over christmas & try & pull at my sentimental drawstrings – I will really really need to stay strong!!
Finally – you feel just like I do now, I am so ashamed at the treatment I accepted, it was desperate, but I really will never let anyone treat me this way again, I think Ive mentioned christmas a few times as i keep thinking its going to break me & I will start to feel lonely and then I give myself a reality check – I was just as lonely when I was with him – in fact even more so as I totally cut myself off from family & friends and he would always & I mean ALWAYS sabotage any holiday or event anyway as he seemed to thrive off stripping me of any joy at all, he ruined the last 2 News Years Eves for me, the last 2 of my birthdays & he spent last christmas in London with friends sending me abusive messages!! – god so why would I be feeling sentimental!!??
stay strong too & keep posting!! x
Brad, right, he will lose the control and convenience of a Fallback girl. But, when he makes the contact does that not mean he “handed” over the control?
How would he justify that to himself?
Astelle – wondering how he would justify his actions is, in my opinion, a question stemming from projecting what you would do or how you would feel if you made contact. If he makes contact it is not about handing over control to, it’s just simply checking in to see if the door is still open. They don’t over-analyze like we do, they just do what they want when they want – nobody else’s issues come into play for them.
Hey everyone
What stage is a person in when she feels so unattractive that she does not want to leave her house. Can’t seem to be happy about anything at the moment and has spent most of the weekend wondering what he’s been doing? I must still be in the beginning stages of being hurt. Honestly though, as much as I try to stop these thoughts, I still have the “if only” or “what if” thoughts run through my mind. Just knowing that he’s already forgotten about me makes that much worse. It’s crazy!! – I mean I would like to get angry about how he treated me, but I end up turning that anger on ME – blaming myself or whatever.
BBP – I agree. muy ex eum just contacts when he feels like, plain & simplly when the fancy takes him, theres no pattern, logic & its simply to see if the door is still open, in the past when I have sometimes responeded to contact – he didnt even bother responding back – it was simply enough for him to know that I had responded & he still had me!! – this would then send me into tailspin & I would then contact him again desperate for a response & even sometimes knock on his door-when I had been the one initiating NC!! I would be sat there sending myself mad thinking – but he contacted me!!?? he must still miss me!!?? why is he not replying??!! it was just plain madness!! thats why I know I must go full nc, I just cant risk going down any of the crazy paths again!
I also think they are just selfish – they have moved on, but boy they dont want you too!
kaite – this is all normal, I felt like this for quite a few weeks (& still have some days when I do now) youve just got to start being kind to yourself & realising that youve been in such an unhealthy situation that your self esteem has taken a complete battering, try not to think about him & start thinking about you (easier said then done I know), but I can say, that reading every single article on this site really helps & so does posting, it really helps to get your feelings out as your not alone & everyone on this site has been in your situation at one point or another.
Katie – I agree with Never.., this is normal and I totally went through the exact same thing. It is your healing time. I think we beat ourselves up so much during this time because of the “what ifs,” since it was the “what ifs” that make you wonder if you were in a relationship or not – and often times we decide that we were not, ergo we wonder why we feel so hurt and abandoned when they are gone for good because there was no relationship, you must be crazy, etc etc. When in actuality, we WERE in a relationship, and it hurts just as bad as any breakup – in fact even more because you were treated badly and disrespected and none of it was on your terms. And since you can’t go off on him and blame him, the only other person you can beat up is yourself — which isn’t the person who deserves to be hurt even more.
You will get better in time. I don’t know what your taste in music is – mine is all over the place, but during my first few bad months, I listened to that song “Better in Time” by Leona Lewis about a million times – and I’m not really a big pop fan. It just spoke to me. Try finding that song or another one, or writing letters that aren’t meant to be sent to get it out of your system. In a few weeks or months you will start to feel the appropriate anger for him, your mind, esteem and ego is just healing right now. You don’t have to stop thinking about him (and you won’t), but you can heal and move on and it will feel better and different.
BBP
Thank you. Your post is very encouraging. I would like to be able NOT to think about him at some point in the future. I remember one of the last few conversations we had and he mentioned that he needed to start making some changes. I guess I was one of them. So, to think EUM’s don’t change – I don’t beleive that
Never,
If you feel weak during the holidays, then you should refer to your recent posts. You’ve come a long way, you know what you have to do. Stay the NC course!!!!
Katie – there was a great post a while back about never having to stop loving your man. I read that one many times, and even now almost 5 months into NC I think about him frequently, even though I don’t want to. I also wish for a time when I no longer think of him, and just like other bad hurts I know that day will come. The more time that goes by, though, the more realistic the thoughts become. Ever see that movie “The Holiday” with Kate Winslet and Cameron Diaz? She gets a visit from her EUM when she is about to move on with Jack Black and suddenly she snaps out of it – I just wish that would happen. It may not, but I’m sure there will come a day when I realize I spent way too much time thinking about him and wonder why. And as for the changing I hate that feeling too. He may have changed for now, and he may stay changed for a while, but just like any criminal that has a propensity for breaking the law, you know what he is capable of and there is a pretty high chance that he will re-offend. You might not hear about it, and hopefully it won’t be you that gets to experience the next crime scene. Or, if he really did change, if you get enough NC under your belt, you can will hate him but (at least for me) be happy that he’s not subjecting some other woman to slow, cruel torture we got.
Astelle – “But, when he makes the contact does that not mean he “handed†over the control?”
Nope. Remember he sees the world as something that serves him. When you return to an EUM, especially after an NC, but really every single time you grant him contact – *you* surrender control to *him*. Any contact with him puts him in your driver seat.
NC is meaningful – life changing – for you. For him it is a temporary inconvenience, or frustration, possibly anger or even rage. It takes a lot of time for either of you to understand what it means, that he no longer has control over you. It will take time for him to realize that anything happened. For you, you have to re-learn your own values, and how to make choices and decisions based on your needs instead of what he allowed.
When he actually walks away – gives up completely (may never happen) – is when he admits defeat. He may never understand that he lost control, or that you took control of your own life.
Katie – it sounds like you are in one of the vulnerable stages. You are grieving the loss of someone you loved. Anger is one of the stages from loss toward healing, but hurting and denial come in their own time, and acceptance follows, and after all that there is healing.
Your feelings are yours. Whatever happened, accept that you did the best you knew how. The one thing you really need to change – is how to pick a guy to be with. Pick a mate-prospect. Learn what your own fears and needs and dreams are. Learn what part of you needed and accepted someone completely inappropriate, for a long term relationship. You aren’t looking for a sex adventure – you are looking for a life companion, a mate. Someone that respects himself and respects you. Someone with character, dependable and honest and honorable. Someone caring and compassionate. Avoid disrespectful people. Choose to befriend people of character.
You may find talking to an experienced grief counselor to be helpful. A good counselor can answer your questions, keep your thinking positive and healing.
Blessed be.
BBP,
I think your post was very insightful. One thing concerns me though, it was when you said “you can and will hate him.” Hate is still a very powerful emotion and signifies we are still giving over the control to them. I think a place of indifference is much more healthy, as it signifies we are moving on from these idiots.
Brad, great explanation, thanks. For some reason, I thought that some of them are too egotistical to make contact since they were used to for her to make the contact.
Instant messaging, email and texting were my ex-EUM’s preferred method of contacting me. In the begining this was okay, as it was complemented by phone calls and meeting in person. I so loved getting his texts in the begining as I would read and re-read the nice and naughty things he would send me.
The problem was, this became the primary way of contacting me. I remember being upset and wanting to talk things through but he would only communicate by text. I’d send him a heartfelt message for him to respond with “ok,” if at all. Pffffft!
I changed by phone number so he can’t no longer call/text me and I feel relief. No more checking my phone for his calls because he can’t reach me. Hooray!
My problem was with IM. I would block him, then unblock him and then do it again. That’s how he was able to send me his “miss you” crap. When I took the bait and responded, he would then ignore my text or take very long to answer. I grew tired of his silly game. Interestingly, he promptly responded to suggestive/sexual texts from me, but not to the other mundane questions such as “where is this relationship going?” Oh well!
Now that I’ve taken a step back from the “relationship”, things are sooo much clearer now. How can you woo back the woman you love with a text? Apologise through an off line message. Have a relationship from your computer to mine? You can’t.
If I’m not important enough to make a real effort to be with, then keep walking.
Gaynor – very true, hate was too much, and for the reasons you mentioned. Indifference is best.
Brad K- you are so right, my ex eum hasnt even figured out that he has lost control over me yet – that is why he sends me ridiculous texts asking me ‘for lunch’ – like its the most normal thing in the world!! this just makes me so angry after the way he has treated me & how badley it ended, yet he still thinks that sooner or later im going to give in & agree to meet him and just carry on where we left off, its just mad – cynnie – I agree with you also – if you really loved someone & wanted them back – you would not go about it by text messaging!! it is so absurd – if I had genuine feelings for someone & knew I had hurt them – I would be banging down their door to apologise & try & get them back! my ex sends me abusive texts one week & then asks me for lunch the next – he cant even acknowledge the reality of the situation – the crap I miss you texts no longer make my stomach churn, I just delete them.
I have come to learn that EUM’s are what I call psychic vampires. The reason I say this is because these type of people (can be men or women) are unable to create any good energy for themselves. So they find people to suck the energy from. These EUM’s do have many acquaintances, they seem to have a line on many activities, so they appear to be very social, normal and what not. But I believe this is their false persona, the person they want us to see. This is not who they are at all and I do not think they have healthy family relationships either. They can step out and appear to be genuine, caring and concerned regular folk. They seem to “understand you” like few others do, etc. I met mine at work. His “at work” personality is 180 degrees opposite of who he is after the Mr. Charming departs and you get to see the vampire. But I really believe they are so insecure, and so affraid of someone finding out who they truly are that they must keep up the front. When they retreat it may be to regain their own energies off the ones they took from you, and from others. My EUM said to me on more than one occasion the following: “This isn’t about you, don’t make it about you. I’ve told you how busy I am and how much time I’m NOT getting for myself, which is very important for me to be the person I want to be.”
This stuff is verbally toxic. I did go to NC after receiving this from him in an email along with a bunch of other stuff. 9 months went by I was getting along well and then he contacted me through someone else’s email account because I had his blocked. He missed me, needed me, blah, blah. So I established contact only last about 6 wks before I reinstated NC which I have now been for 4 months.
Better~
That’s interesting about you going so long with NC and then to re-establish for it to only last 6 weeks. I’m only on week 2 and I get more texts from my EUM then I have 6 months combined. I’ve been tempted to reply to him but I’m serious about needing to be treated with respect….so thanks for proving that I can’t reinitiate contact with my EUM. I’m more than certain that if I do, he will ignore me.
And Brad~
You bring such an insightful view point to the mix…..it’s good to be reminded that the EUM does not think like we do….
Better, all his e-mail said is : ME, ME, ME, ME, ME and ME, it is all about ME. Really funny, because if he listen they tell us what they are.
What made you reinstate NC?
He said he changed. Brad is right, men do not change. Don’t be fooled by their words, actions always speak louder than words.
Hi All, I have enjoyed following on the blogs on this subject, particularly since I took part in this game for 6 months. I am reading a book right now and it carries a religious connotation, although I am not the most religious person in the world but thought I would share this and you can take it from there and I found it so appropro!:
Can….the leopard change his spots? Jermiah 13.23
Simply put NO!
Jeremiah 13.23…rather…sorry about that!
one of the most important things that i’ve learned is that words (and texts and email etc) are very cheap, don’t cost anything: they can later be twisted, interpreted or misinterpreted. But actions take intention and will and effort and guts. That’s why I now want to judge men from their actions and not just their words.
BBP: rejoice! I had that kind of moment: one day, a couple of months into NC, I was reading a comment he left to one of his pictures on FB and it was so vain and narcissistic and sickening that I thought to myself “How could I think of being in love with this sleazy scumbag?” and I start laughing and singing and I was in a state of crazy euphory for the rest of the day. It can happen, love yourself and it will happen. Of course sometimes I still wonder if he has learned anything from the experience and sometimes I wish him to be insomniac for the rest of his life because he has realized that he’s the scum of the heart, but this is just a passing thought because a part of me feels pity for him.
But the great thing is: he is not of my business anymore and will never be, ever again!
Sorry I meant “scum of the earth”
Nilondoner-I agree with you. I feel more pity for him and it’s none of my business anymore.
I never want to feel as low as I did with him. He sucked the life and goodness right out of me. It’s way better to be free and actually feel things, have energy, and want to be alive than just plain existing. Existing for that txt msg, that email, IM or whatever.
Actions, actions, actions are everything.
Better – this is exactly how I feel!! I dont think I could ever be as low as how I was with my ex eum – I never want to go back to that place ever again and that is what is making me stick to nc despite his efforts to maintain contact with me – friends & family literally watched as my whole personality changed as he stripped me of everything – confidence, self esteem, energy – everything, im still having down days but like better – I remind myself of all the verbally toxic stuff he said to me when dumping me yet again, it always went along the lines of – ‘I know how much I & us means to you, but I can not comply with your selfish demands & expectations any longer, I need time for me & myself & if you do not understand this then so be it, I am not going to let you manipulate me into feeling guility about not seeing you, I need space & that is that’- this was usually in reaction to me trying to call him when he had gone missing for days on end without bothering to contact me – like better said, it is just toxic, it made me feel so low & bad about myself, as my so called ‘demands’ were nothing of the sort (in fact I was too scared to ever actually make any real demands!!) but he was the master at projecting all his traits on to me (being manipulative & demanding) but I would be literally sick with nerves & anxiety with how he made me feel – I was making myself ill – never again.
Never~ I’m not sure how they could strip all our goodness from us that way. It didn’t happen overnight, but it was like I woke up one day and felt so worthless as a human being. How can one person have so much power over another that way? It’s sad to admit I gave him so much of my personal power. That’s one thing us ladies need to treasure. Our personal power, our core being. We have to defend it, protect it and nurture it.
When we give up our personal power to someone else they will never care for it like we do. It makes us powerless, we have to care for ourselves in a better way. That’s why NC is essential to keeping us safe. It’s not for them, it’s for US so that we aren’t involving ourselves in an abusive situation any more.
Better – I agree, I dont know how it happens, but yes its gradual – I was just in a desperate desperate situation, I could write a book about all the things he did & put me through but worse how sad that I put up with it for such a long time.
Betterwithouthim, What really sucks is that he doesn’t take anything. You give it up. You turn away from essential parts of yourself. You cater to his whims and give up your friends, your life, your loves.
Because you are giving to a perpetual dater, not an actual life partner – you never hit the balance that returns your gifts, you never receive gives from your life mate. You have given yourself away, and it was lost to you, to your friends and family, to your community.
Breaking away from your relationship to a perpetual dater includes having to rebuild your life, your loves, your self, everything that you offered and was judged ‘worthless’. You have to discover the lies you and he told you about what has value, like your self, your loves, your life.
He wasn’t interested in a relationship, so all the gifts you gave, trying to please him, were just discarded. You wasted yourself away. He didn’t take anything you didn’t give.
The trick is to become a person that needs an appropriate partner for a lifetime of love.
“Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
“If someone betrays you once, it’s their fault; if they betray you twice, it’s your fault.”
— Eleanor Roosevelt
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/44566.Eleanor_Roosevelt
That second line from Eleanor Roosevelt is harsh for those with low self esteem, those used to living with disrespect. But the thought applies even to them.
Peace.
Right again, Brad
Brad, right on, he doesn’t take anything, we give it up! That is why NC is so IMPORTANT!
Brad- I think you were speaking about my earlier post of him sucking the life out of me. But in my latter post I admitted to giving up my personal power, that it needs to be protected and nutured by me.
Your comments are right on. And I have that one quote in my wallet “nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent” I bought it at a card shop and refer to it now as a way to keep me grounded.
It’s been a life changing experience for me, dealing with a “perpetual dater” and rebuilding myself. I feel in some ways I was given a second chance at life now, and I’m determined to make the best of it.
You know, one of the scary things about coming into awareness – is how emotionally unavailable I (Fallback Girl) am. I have been known to return assclown’s voicemails with texts….especially if we were in battle. I would reason that I needed a few hours to calm down so I didn’t say anything I would regret. And there is some validity to that – but I imagine that in a healthy relationship – you could answer the phone and actually say that. Wow – I am one screwed up puppy. Mr Unavailable just helped make it easy for me to function this way. Lots of work ahead.
reading these posts make me feel like im not completly insane. I had been in a relationship with a bloke for nine years who in the time we were married a mere nine months cheated on me with his secretary for six of them months. shocking I know! had called time on it went for divorce, divorced the sad looser and spent time on my own enjoying going out and in walks Mr unavailable! Who I thought to be a geniune bloke, ignored any red warning signals like the fact he still lived with the EX but in his own words was over and had been for some time! He wanted out and straight into my house! In he comes he needs to see his daughter he needs to see his family all without me! Dont get me wrong he gave all the talk I need to bring her over- never happenend! His split with the ex was hell and this is an important line to think about ladies why do we conjole with them that there is something wrong with the ex woman? when in hindsight its all the issues your gonnna have to deal with! I have no adversion to someone going out as long as they put time into us! My new line is now when they say She didnt understand me- Its highly unlikely that I ever will either!
He appeared insecure when he moved in in hindsight- didnt quite know where he stood. I had learnt something in the last disaster and wouldnt stoop to conjoling behaviour or texting/phoning and just getting on with my own life! which to be honest unnerverd him even more!
He would see his daughter for days on end and not return and me been a lass who thinks the children shouldnt suffer didnt feel at times to confront it – to be fair tho i did tell him it was unacceptable! We could all do something together – God im a trained nanny and not adverse to kids!
This was over at his “mothers” which in my heart I didnt believe. Confronted it and was told im imaginining things. it all seems like one disaster after another!
He has gone now and I have no contact with him for at least 2 months, I do not believe that everything is rosy where he has gone back to and he will make his own noose to hang himself with. He had no regard for me, his family or anyone but himself! Not even his daughter who he cared so much about- an absolute total EUM!
not quite taken, I don’t understand, where did he go back to?
Did he just move out and you have not heard from him in the last two months or did you cut the contact?
I can’t stop caring about him, despite his unwillingness to commit. There is just something about him that makes me feel so sorry inside that he’s like this. I can move on, and yes, it’s going to be hard, but he’ll always be in my heart.
Ernesta, There are times when we have the luxury of being a caring person, of helping to heal those in need.
But selecting a mate is not one of those times. If you want to build a home, with a long term relationship, there are some essentials that have to be there – someone that heals and supports you, that you share joy with. You have to have respect and honesty and compassion, and loyalty between you. And he lacks respect and honor.
Please take time to find yourself. Time to find why you confused helping an injured man with finding a partner. Time to understand why you were almost ready to accept disrespect in your home.
And you are right, grieving for someone we lose from our lives always hurts.
Blessed be.
I was wondering why I never came across this post and I think it was during my – “this is gonna work out no matter what” period. Coming here only opened up the reality box and I wasn’t having it. Well, here I am now – day 19 of NC – after what will be our final break up.
The AC and I practically LIVED on Instant Messenger. That was practically the only way we communicated. Part of it in the beginning was my fault … he did call, but I have phone-phobia and he quit trying to get me to talk. So we ended up texting at first, then moved on to IMs.
He has broken up with me via text, email and IM – never once to my face. He broke up with me on the phone a couple of times too. Geez, all this breaking up and I still didnt get the message!
Well, it’s okay b/c I got it now. For over 2 years I gave him my love and he just kept saying, No thanks. I’m sick of trying and I’m done. I never realized out impersonal our communications were and it explains constant upsets and fights b/c anything can be read into words written with no body attached.
Hi Annied,
I agree, this strange new world of communications seems to complicate an already complicated world of relationships.
Sorry if I sound naive, but, a real relationship happens face to face. Period. This whole phenomenon of social networking sites and IMing and texting are truly just distractions and excuses from the task at hand. If that is how we are communicating, it is not real. There is a reason why the word “real” is in “real”lationships. Best to you.
Real relationships are about actions, what we actually do and not the potential that we can see – a committed relationship is not about distraction and feelings of excitement and clever dialogue… realising this has given me my life back and helped me understand how being in many different types of relationships with many EUM throughout my life.. the first being my father… has allowed me to protect myself from facing aspects of my own EU character – my husband and I now have something to work with – so I thank Grant, hopefully the last EUM I will need to spend emotional energy on… he truly is my soul mate and I wish him peace and true love
Annied, you said “For over 2 years I gave him my love and he just kept saying, No thanks”
This is just so profound and is resonating over and over in my head.
Cheers
Gaynor
The reason why he was acting interested in the beginning is because you positioned yourself as a woman who “didn’t want anything serious” — you said you were an EUW but what comes along with being so is, we and they get hooked on the illusion of the man saying that he wants a committed relationship and is in love with us but we know in the pitt of our stomach that it’s not real because the two of you are dating in this dysfunctional attraction of you both being unavailable and attracted to eachother when one blows hot and the other cold, it never matches up and never will. The relationship only exists because of the unavailability at the core and if one or both of you got healthy and ready for a relationship; you may or may not be interested in dating that person, or attracted giving another time/place/situation in the present.
I have been an emotionally unavailable woman and for some reason when the man said he wanted to be serious (on very loose terms usually) or expressed (shallow) feelings — I would love getting into the drama and betting that potential, but what results did I expect when the product (me) was delivering shallowness… we weren’t operating from truth and we can’t get liquid from a rock! This site is a godsent really, it really opened my eyes on the path towards loving myself!
Gina,
You’re absolutely right!!
Yes, this site is a godsend, it has made everything very clear.
All the best to you!!
Wow we met in person and all he did was text me and say he was gonna call. Finally I called him. That prompted his next call later that day to go out on a date. After the date (nothing happened but a couple of kisses) he didn’t call for days. Then we were back at texting again. I told him im not really fond of texting. I always initiated the text. I realize now how ridiculous I was being. I shouldn’t have to force anyone to call me. If he wanted anything more with me he would have done it. Thank you for this post. I’m no longer wasting my time on Mr. Text Message/Lazy Assclown as you call him.
It’s very embarrassing to think how many years of my life I wasted on this man. I justified it by thinking it was right/meant to be and we all have issues, so maybe this will take time. We met a few times and then it turned into only IM, email, texting, but I still held out hope! Ugh, reading these comments have been so helpful to me!!
At one point he just stopped talking to me for weeks I later found out he was back with this woman that he had cheated on his wife with years ago (I know red flag – hello!). I said please do not ever contact me again and that I deserved more. He started emailing here and there and I said do not contact me unless you are single. Well, he did a month later and I foolishly got back into it. We would make plans and he was always working late or whatever. I told him last month it was we move forward or not because I can’t deal with this anymore. We agreed to meet and he had to cancel due to work. He claimed I always made him nervous to talk to because he had been open with things that he hadn‘t with anyone else (I bought this!).
I look back and am so disappointed in how long I let this go on. He recently stopped talking to me and I have since found out he moved in with that woman. I am hurt and angry with myself. I told him to go rot in hell. I will not ever reach out to him and can’t imagine he would even think about reaching out to me. I wouldn’t reply anyway. At first I was so hurt and mad at myself and jealous of this other woman (why her and not me), but realized that she isn’t so lucky to “get him” as I am sure she had no idea he was reaching out to me with non appropriate conversations at times.
I am not proud I have wasted all these years, but finding this site and reading these posts have made me not feel so alone. I know I need to make some major changes in my thinking!
Thank you to all that have posted.
I’ve just read this article and it is so true. I met a guy while i was overseas and told me he was interested in me, but when he had to move away to another state i hardly heard from him, only text messages and occasionally we would talk online on IM. I was meant to go and see him a few weeks after he moved away, but during the time he was gone i realised that his feelings weren’t the same as mine. He wasn’t calling me and i wasn’t going to force him to as i knew he mustn’t be as interested as i first thought.
It is so hard when you make this realisation, and harder when i found out he actually had feelings for someone else. But, i guess from the experience i have learnt that there are guys out there who will put in a half-hearted effort and it is up to the girl to say, “no, i’m too good for this and i expect more”.
I do still wonder about him, but i know that he is better off with someone else who he actually likes! And i’m better off waiting for someone who will actually pick up the phone!
Now that I understand more about what an EUM is, I see clearly that is what I have been dealing with in the past year. Boy, did I believe the words he said to me, because there was little action. He decided to move out because in his words, “I sucked the life out of him”, “Being with me was like a job”, “I was too needy, too demanding, too many expectations..” you get the idea. Well, I tried to talk with him after he moved out, because I felt it was all my fault. He’s let me dangle on a string for an entire year keeping contact mainly through EMAIL. The last time I saw him I was on my way home from work, and he was getting in his car to leave his job. I asked if I could speak to him for a couple of mins. and he agreed. We sat in his car (I’m teary and sad), I reach for his hand to hold it because I am so hungry for affection from him, and he pulls it away and says to me “Do I need to get a restraining order”???? We did have volatile conversations before this meeting, but MY GOD! It took him 3 weeks to call and apologize to me. He left his apology on voicemail, and when I called to talk more about it he said, ” See, I already apologized ..you can’t just let things go”. I am sooo exhausted! He’s constantly telling me that I’m “Unhappy with myself”, and if I were more “secure” then the things that he did wouldn’t “bother” me so much.
I would like to share the whole story from beginning to end but I’ll focus on the end. Although his behavior was the epitome of a EUM. I will in no means make excuses for my own behavior, instead I will grow from it. Ending it……He still attempts to leave doors open for “next time”, while completely taking all the sensitive and personally info that was exchanged over 8 months and passively aggressively attacking me with words of wisdom and unfounded support. I have to admit that this was the most bizarre situation I have ever been in, my normal type are just plain ole losers. The EUM is a new breed for me & one that I do not ever want the pleasure of enduring again. Goddess bless all my sister who actually put up with this narcissistic & what I call incredible behavior. I would also like to give props to NML for having learned and willing to share her experience, thank you.
I heard a funny saying about this….’guys who text just want sex, guys who call want it all!’