In part one I followed up a recent post about normalising bad behaviour – where you become so departed from what you feel comfortable with, that the uncomfortable becomes the familiar and the comfortable – by explaining about how we can become isolated in our relationships.
This happens either because our desire to be with someone has us sidelining ourselves and forgetting about family, friends, work, passions, or because there can be direct and indirect messages from the other party which we react to try to please them and end up isolating ourselves. The unfortunate effect of this though is that by being with someone who is uncommitted, when we shelve everything around us and isolate ourselves, they aren’t there to support us either.
The key thing that will keep you in a relationship that is having a negative impact on you is fear.
Fear that everything they say about you is true and that they’re as good as it gets.
Fear that every negative thing you think about yourself is true – a self-fulfilling prophecy because in going out with people who reflect your negative beliefs they’re only going to serve to validate the negative, not contradict it.
Fear of being alone.
Fear that you can’t trust your judgement.
Fear that you’ll be nothing without them.
Fear of having to deal with whatever issues you have instead of focusing on them.
Fear that you’ll never find someone who brings out these extreme feelings in you.
Fear of loss and losing.
As I explained in a post last year about drama seeking triggers, you can end up having a relationship with your fear when you are letting your fears determine your experiences.
When I speak to readers and ask what they’re scared of, a number of the things are already happening, they just choose not to look at it that way, or what they imagine to be so awful hasn’t been reconciled with the reality of things.
For instance, often when we’re scared of being alone, it turns out that even when we’re with them we’re alone because they are not in the relationship with us that we want them to be.
Often when we fear that we’ll be nothing without them, we feel like nothing with them, anyway.
Often we’re afraid of what they’ll say or do if we don’t take their phonecall, or we don’t play by their rules and after a while, you have to wonder, if you want out of the pain, isn’t it time to ask yourself what’s the worst that can happen?
If the worst that can happen is that you discover that he really is as awful as you think he is and that he’s not capable of giving you what you want, this is actually freeing. Flogging a dead horse and sticking to them like glue isn’t going to change them.
If you’re not happy now being treated in this manner or being in a poor relationship, what makes you think that you can stick it out for the rest of your days?
If the worst that can happen is that he says things that whilst cruel, you know them to be untrue, this is freeing because not only do you recognise that this person has a distorted perception of you that they’re not prepared to shift from because it doesn’t suit their agenda, but that they’re not the type of person that you should be around anyway.
If you have to convince someone of your worthiness, doesn’t that say a lot about their lack of judgement and care? You shouldn’t have to sell the concept of being with you.
The likelihood is that whatever you fear, in the overall scheme of things, it’s a fraction of what will happen in the reality. Many of us have often thought we’d never recover from breaking up with some guy, but we do.
What’s the worst that can happen? Well you won’t know unless you actually try because staying and expecting a different result from the same dynamic is relationship insanity.
If you truly want to be happy and you’re finding yourself invariably feeling rather miserable trying to extract a decent relationship out of someone who is resisting, you’re going to need to feel the short term pain to feel the medium to long term gain.
We’re afraid of feeling the pain and we’re also afraid of confronting our fears and dealing with them so we can free ourselves up to enjoy our lives.
We spend far too much time trusting in the wrong things than we do in the right.
Unless you learn to trust your gut, instincts, and judgement and act upon them, you will flounder in fear with a guy who detracts from you.
Trust is about having faith in how others (or yourself) will act.
If you don’t trust yourself, you don’t have faith in you.
As long as you ride with fear, you’re basically saying “I’d rather trust in the possibility of something bad happening rather than have faith in myself that I could opt out of a poor situation and make a better life and experience for myself based on positive choices”
This is because operating out of fear is about making negative choices born out of negative beliefs and feelings.
Feeling isolated in relationships breaks your spirit but unfortunately the only way to break the isolation is to start having faith in you.
Even a little faith gives you strength which allows you to act on your judgement which when you get past the pain and start to enjoy the freedom from this negativity, allows you to have confidence in yourself and your judgement.
If I had a choice between having faith in myself and taking a risk on me versus trusting someone who has demonstrated their lack of commitment to me, has been cruel, and whose actions contradict their words, I’d opt for me.
Trust me, I’ve been there before, letting my fears rule me. One day I woke up and realised that this could be it for me and that was pretty damn scary.
I realised that placing my faith in other people to act in my best interests was pretty crazy when I couldn’t even place enough faith in myself to act in my own best interests.
If you’re isolated, either because you internalised what they’ve said and done and isolated yourself as a reaction to it, or as a result of the control that they’ve exerted upon your life, or a combination of both, it doesn’t feel very good because isolation is bloody horrible.
If the ‘worst’ that can happen by opting out of your fear and taking a risk on you, is that you stop being isolated in a poor relationship with him because you’ve stepped out of the craziness into reality and felt the fear and pushed through it, maybe it’s time you braved the unknown because surely, what you know doesn’t feel that good, isn’t making you happy, and you’re not getting the relationship you want.
If what you know, the familiar, yields misery, isn’t it safe to say that opting for a different path may be where your happiness lies?
You’re waiting for their behaviour to change, for them to validate you, for them to admit their errors and poor judgements but you could be in for a very long wait. All this waiting is putting you in limbo and isolation and the fact of the matter is that you don’t need him to confirm or unconfirm what you already know – you can’t force someone too see something that they don’t want to see.
You also get to avoid the reality of your relationship and issues you may have because the isolation feeds the illusion. If you start to let in reality, you may have to acknowledge and accept some very uncomfortable things.
Back for the final part 3 where I talk about removing the power that you give them and perceive them to have.
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“Fear that you can’t trust your judgement.”
Check.
“Fear that you’ll never find someone who brings out these extreme feelings in you.”
Bingo.
Of all the introspection I have done trying to figure out why have I been so miserable with this guy (about 9 parts unhappy to 1 part happy), I never actually thought of fear before (what, me? afraid?? not me, wrong girl, etc) But you are spot on. We fear the unfamiliar even though the familiar is pain. When put that way, it really makes no sense NOT to take a chance.
@Meant,
I have this version of “twist of fate” for you: I was told that he didn’t know whether the stars would ever line up for us and what we would do if they did. This came on the heels of one declaration of undying devotion or another. Where do these guys find these lines?? I am very glad that you feel good after your final email. I know I had urged you not to send anything, but the bottom line is that the you feel good about it, so whatever brought this outcome had been the right thing to do. Hey, it’s day 1 for me again, too, so we could make the NC a healthy competition… 🙂
And yes, I felt strongly enough to throw my life away and pick him up at the airport. I think I did. It’s possible that on some level I knew – even as I officially committed myself – that nothing would come of it. Kind of like a would-be jumper teetering on the penthouse balcony screaming, “I’ll jump, I dare you all to just say the word! I swear I’ll jump!” Just as the firemen are spreading that trampoline-type thingie to break his fall and a negotiator is making his way over up the fire escape. As for my marriage – I can’t go back. I have thought and thought about it and much as I try to unwish it in my mind, the betrayal is done. You don’t undo something like this. My husband would have never done this to me. And I can’t spend the rest of my life lying to him, because any time I would return any kind of kindness or affection or expression of trust it would always be a screaming lie. I used to pride myself on honesty and integrity. There is no going back on the betrayal itself, but pretending it never happened would perpetuate it further. You know, maybe it’s not that I knew that last exchange with the MM would come to nothing; maybe – having finally seen the whole affair for what it was – maybe I thought we deserved each other. I am sick to my stomach with regrets.
Sorry. Not a good day today.
@Angelina
“It’s sort of like he knew that I was bleeding on the street, but he was able to walk, no run home, because he might have to stand up to her for being late.†NML’s post about fear – it dove-tails quite nicely with teaching us to separate actions from words, don’t you think? None of us were ever naïve enough to really mistake all the I’ll-be-there-for-you’s for the real thing when we saw these guys’ knee jerk reactions whenever their wives called. But we put up with it time and time again. I can say now, in retrospect, that for me there was definitely that fear of recognizing the actions of a coward in someone that was supposed to me my be-all and end-all etc. It’s hard to admit to yourself that you wasted however may years of your life.
@Anusha,
Yes, I do think that he is checking whether you’re still emotionally vested in his connection to you (I refuse to call these things relationships anymore…) That’s the source of his ego boost – he stays away for weeks, doesn’t respond for weeks, yet he knows that if he sends you a text you will be intrigued enough as to what it meant that you will respond. Someone here on this site once said that one of the many identical behaviors that these guys exhibit is sending an off the wall email to you out of the blue – be it a Fw:fw:fw: joke or a comment on something that is not apropos of anything you and he had ever discussed. When I used to do my dry-run NC’s – as I now think of them – my MM would send me links to bizarre news stories or pictures of cute panda cubs. I mean, seriously – there is nothing in me that says teddybear. I used to think it was a sign of detriment in his socialization skills (and of course I would feel ever so more sorry for his painful childhood), kind of like people who can’t help but laugh at funerals because they had never learned appropriate adult behavior. But it may just be that guys like this throw out some nonsensical bait and feel gratified when you bite anyway. I say you don’t bite, girl. To hell with soccer scores… 🙂
“If you have to convince someone of your worthiness, doesn’t that say a lot about their lack of judgement and care? You shouldn’t have to sell the concept of being with you.” NML
This is the paradox of “relationships that are non-relationships” when one or both of the parties is EU. I didn’t sell him on the concept of me. He pursued me. I didn’t respond. He pursued even more.
He ENDED up with me, hooked on him (I’m still working on figuring out how he got under my usually very reliable radar, but that is another subject). I was smitten, and THEN once he had me, he runs the other way. So, I withdrew, he pursued, and back and forth, etc. THEN, I end up quoting him on the words he used to describe me while he was pursuing me. WORDS no one else had ever said to me, and “funny thing” words that actually “fit” who I am.
How twisted is that? Right now, at this moment, it is comical, and I can laugh, but until I am completely through this “hell”, there will be tears again. And many more. And, remember, other than running into him at work, there has been no contact for 11 months. I know that this indescribible (sp) experience will pass, and someday I will be recovered. But in the meantime . . .
Brad K. had written, somewhere, about the three or four years it takes to get healthy after ending a relationship. At the rate that this recovery has taken me, I know that three to four years would actually be a blessing. We certainly do, “make our beds.”
Aega: Again, my sympathy and my empathy. We are thousands of miles apart, but yet, your tale is so similar to mine. You have very eloquently stated emotions that I went through and am currently experiencing. I think it matters not how we got here, for we can’t change the past, but we can learn and move forward.
And here is another thing that is really bad about these situations. I never wanted anybody who didn’t want me. I mean, for goodness sakes, does any of us want that person hanging around and hanging around and hanging around? No, we don’t.
So, I know that this “twisted” dynamic is maybe beyond explainable.
Again, as Brad K. says, “Luck.”
@Angelina,
“I never wanted anybody who didn’t want me”.
Neither did I. I have always taken “pride in my pride” to a fault. When I was first married, we had the usual fights; you know, getting our feel of this being permanently together thing. I came from multiple marriages on both my parents’ sides and I didn’t know a ripple from a rift; to me, in the beginning, a spat over things so silly that I don’t even remember them now was always stage one of divorce because I knew squat about the dynamics of compromise or sense of proportion. Thinking back years later to some of the more theatrical performances on my part and laughing about them I asked my husband once why he never took me up on my overacted grand finales and just drove down the street for a cup of coffee while I cooled down. And he told me that he knew that if he ever left in the middle of a squabble, I would be gone when he returned and I wouldn’t be coming back. That I would stake the whole marriage on a minor point of pride.
So who is this chick that later let someone back into her life time and time again only to set herself up for another disappointment? A guy with a wife. Whom I had met, no less. Just like you, whenever I withdrew for any period of time he would immediately step up the effort and pursue and pursue until… I’d let my feelings surface again and reciprocate with all the supposed passion that he had been feeling.
I’ve been sitting here for hours now, working on and off, but mainly thinking. Not about him – not in the sense of longing for him as I always had done before anyway – but about what has led me to this place. I know you said that it matters not how we got here, but I think that understanding it would help move forward. We won’t ever understand what happened from his end. But aren’t we old enough and smart enough to figure out our part in it? We learn from our mistakes once we identify which parts of what happened had been mistakes.
Whenever he expressed any kind of insecurity about himself my emotional reaction to make it better would instantly kick in regardless of how much hurt he had caused me with his turn to “run awayâ€. And I am realizing now that it’s not that I have a tendency to root for the underdog; I wanted to make it better for him because I saw so much of those same fears in me. I couldn’t fix my fears (obviously – why else would I have ruined a great marriage) but here I had a chance for a do-over of every painful unwanted moment from my past. If I made it better for him it was also a small victory for the scared and insecure person inside me.
When you say how he would say words to you that fit who you are, describe you in a way that no one ever had before, I remember the feeling. That recognition of the “real you†and the implied acceptance of whatever the “real you†represents – it’s like a shot of morphine after you’ve been waiting in the emergency room with your broken toe for hours as the staff tended to the patients with greater emergencies first. It’s like coming home. He opens the door to this house, you see him inside, and he is calling and calling to you and telling you exactly all you’ve ever thought made a house a home. You run toward the door finally, but as soon as you cross the threshold, he steps back into the house. He never slams the door in your face, he just keeps receding deeper and deeper into that house each time you come closer to him. You know by now, have been convinced, that this house is the home you needed and that there is no one in it besides the two of you. Except that each time you go in deeper he steps just out of reach and you keep finding yourself turning a blind corner.
OK, that was depressing… I’m sorry, I am wallowing with the best of them tonight and apparently turning out some pretty cheesy allegories in the process. I am not missing him, though; I haven’t opened up any pictures or emails since our last exchange, nor have I been tempted to. I can no longer reconcile his face to the person I still love so much inside my head.
I suppose we will continue this melange of disbelief, anger, sadness, and all those other post-break-up feelings we’d rather not have for a long time.
Aega: Yes, I agree that it is important that we do understand what happened so that we don’t go there again. But, one (meaning me) has the potential to wonder and wonder and then ask another question and another question and another question.
Each book, each post, each comment has lead to a greater understanding, so that has been beneficial. I had just expected that this “pining” would have gone away by now. That’s what sucks. And, that pining is very very isolating. The empty feeling has diminished, somewhat, so that is great. But the empty feeling is unlike any that I have ever experienced before.
It isn’t fear. I mean, at the point where I went NC, I knew the worst that would happen is that I would hurt. Okay. Been there many times before with physical and emotional pain. So, nothing prepared for this type of pain. N O T H I N G! Yet, I have no regrets about going NC and discovering that I wasn’t that special – I would go through it all again. Because, what I wanted was out of the pain of the minute to minute eggshell “dance”, the daily roller coaster, the monthly gravity drop, and the yearly merry-go-round.
So, I think I somewhat disagree with NML that it is fear of facing reality. At least for me, I want the reality. Always have. Maybe I am misinterpreting the description fear, or using the term contextually different.
I just reread, “Fear that you’ll never find someone who brings out these extreme feelings in you.” Hmmmm. How ironic is that? I do remember saying, “I want to go wherever the ride takes me.” However, that wasn’t said in the context of getting in a relationship with him, but maybe he took it that way – and that’s what started the whole pursuit.
I have learned that although I am isolated, that through the anonymity of this site, that I am really not isolated, but rather in a very large community of women, who like me, probably never thought that they would be a statistic. But yet, we are isolated, because it’s not like one wants to run down the street advertising this kind of pain.
I thank my lucky stars that I had the chance to go somewhere else and have something else (something, not someone) to capture my attention and emotions. I am very lucky. So very many of us are still in exactly the same places that we were when we fell into this pattern of behaviour.
Well, this is the post that has hit me. NML wrote
“If the worst that can happen is that he says things that whilst cruel, you know them to be untrue, this is freeing because not only do you recognise that this person has a distorted perception of you that they’re not prepared to shift from because it doesn’t suit their agenda, but that they’re not the type of person that you should be around anyway.
If you have to convince someone of your worthiness, doesn’t that say a lot about their lack of judgment and care? You shouldn’t have to sell the concept of being with you.”
In the beginning, the MM made me feel as if I could do no wrong, as if I was his ideal woman that he had thought he would never meet in this life time, his “dream girl” that his marriage was almost over, and we’d be together “soon” (and I believed it! silly me) but as I started to call him on things that he said about wanting to spend the rest of his life with me, but not seeing any action on his part, he started to say things that were untrue about me like “you’re so mean, and I can’t live with that the rest of my life” “how do I know you won’t turn on me once we’re together?” and I kept trying to bend and change and convince him that I was really nice, not mean… (which I really was nice… I shouldn’t have had to work so hard, but I kept trying to be whatever I thought he wanted) that I would be there through thick and thin, not ever turn on him. I kept trying to prove to him that I really was really that “dream girl”, but there really was nothing wrong with me, and now in retrospect he was just making me feel bad probably so my spirit would break. But, seeing the truth about him for what he was doing to me really was just what I needed to walk away for the last time. And like Angelina said that Brad had mentioned, it can take up to 4 years to heal, but once I started having faith in myself that it wasn’t ME that was the mean one, it was HIM, it has definitely sped up the healing process. I had a lot of baggage from rarely being good enough for my dad (he loved me, but he just couldn’t show it well, and I don’t think I ever lived up to his expectations), and then in my 13 marriage to what I now know was an EU, where I just never felt good enough and was always trying to conform to what he wanted. I have the energy to confront this pattern in myself and not repeat it. The initial pain I had when I finally walked away lasted about 3 months, but the longer I stayed no contact, the more I could look back and see the truth about the situation. I really did think he was “the one” so to break it off and have faith in ME was a really hard place to come to, but now all these months later with the help of this site, and reading other woman’s “hills and valleys” stories, I am totally on the way to a healthier me, and it doesn’t hurt so much.
Anyone just starting NC, please believe it when women on this site write “you will get better in time even if it doesn’t feel like it!” Take the step of faith in yourself and for your own mental healing. At first, I really didn’t think I would ever get over it, that’s how bad it felt, but distance from the situation gives you a clarity about the AC behavior that aides in the healing process.
I personally believe that the only way to true healing is that when you finally come to the place where you know that NC is the way to go, you have to stick to it, or you have these slips back into a place that wasn’t good for you. I had to try a lot of times and learn the hard way before I really got the courage to never go back for more of the same.
Hope you’re all staying strong and committed to keeping yourself emotionally healthy!
@Angelina…
” But yet, we are isolated, because it’s not like one wants to run down the street advertising this kind of pain.”
This is so true to me. Part of the work I have to do with my ‘recovery’ is that I’m so very embarrassed to be in this pain. I love this place because I can come here on my good days and my bad days. There seem to be more bad days though since his birthday. I’m slipping in and out of having horrible feelings about the future and being eager to just get on with it. I still worry about my want of him…being close to him…having him hold me tightly as he once did, but I figure I’m still in the stage where every other thought of him alternates between positive and negative. As you all may have figured…I don’t have very good thoughts about myself…physically. I am a bit fuller than I’d like to be but mainly I’ve had some devastating injuries to my skin from infitego…or however it’s spelled. So I have scaring on my back, my arms. and legs. I had this condition from mosquito bites when I was a small child also…I can barely stand to see an insect for fear I will be biten and swell again. Well, he didn’t seem to mind the scarring…and he always said he liked my ‘voluptuousness’ , which was rather nice to hear feeling the way I do about it. Sure this scarring will go away eventually, but I still think about it when I’m sitting around, being emotional, and listing the things that he could easily do without…the reasons I shouldn’t have expected him to stick around. I know it’s ridiculous to go there, but I find myself doing it. I think these things out too much. Like how could I expect him to ‘choose’ me over anyone else…I’m tall, broad shouldered, not particularly drop dead gorgeous…but then it hits me. Neither is he! He 11 years older than I…57…he has that belly, that I thought made him adorable…but it was only a belly. Why is his belly any more adorable than mine. My scars are numerous…but they’re round and uniform and so I jokingly describe them and tiny chocolate chips…sweet chocolate, damn it! I’m very feminine…actually pretty close to sexy in a dangerous way! HA! Most importantly…I have a soul. I’m caring, warm, intelligent, witty, loyal to my friends…and I have the ability to give love. In his case, love to the undeserving. Can he find a love like mine? Possibly he can find love…it seems he already has, but tis a pity…he’ll never experience the joy and security of MY LOVE. It’s stellar, indeed. I’m a real catch…and I despise him for the way he disrepected me. Hurt me and catch ME aside. I’ll love myself again as I understand the depths of his cruelty to me. Sometimes I believe I avoid that truth. Serena pointed out to me before that I was abused. She is right. I was…he didn’t have to do this and I don’t have to excuse him for it, either. I felt ashamed to have wanted him to give me his love, because I really didn’t believe I deserved it. Fancy that…I thought he should have reached for someone better. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…what was I thinking.
Quick…someone…throw a shoe at me. My gosh…I needed that purge there.
Great post, here!
@butterfly…
I agree…we really do need an edit button. I meant to say…”he cast me aside”
Sorry…
Okay, I hope someone can help me. I had been set up with this guy about 3 months ago. Two weeks into it and after already being intimate with him he tells me that he is not looking for a relationship. I know, I know. I should have gotten out then but I didnt because I honestly thought I would be able to handle things and just take it day by day. Well cut to two weeks ago when after having a few drinks he brings up a whole bunch of stuff. Asks me if I want him to be my bf or if I was happy with how things were. Then he says he has feelings for me but doesnt want to hurt me. Wants to be friends. Blah Blah.
Well last week he asks me what he said that night bc he did not remember. I tell him all but the feelings part and he tells me again that he is not looking for a relationship and he cannot give me one. He said that he sensed that was what I wanted and wanted me to know that he does not want anything to distract him from his job or other interest right now. He said that he was okay with how things were now with us but wnated me to be the one to end things. He also told me that if a guy asks me out I should say yes and go out.
I asked him if there was someone else and he asked me what I would do if there was. I asked him to tell me and he asked again what I would do if there was. Then he finally said I did not need to worry there was no one else.
Cut to two nights ago. I texted him. Yep not doing the NC thing and he did not respond back at all. This happened on another Sunday back in July. So I drove by his house (he lives 3 minutes from me) and his car was not there. I drove by again 2 hours later, car still not there. The next morning I drove by again at 5 and carr was still not there. He texted at around 9 and told me “phone was dead yesterday and asked how my weekend wasâ€. I so wanted to call him out on his not being home and how lame an excuse as the phone being dead was. But I didnt. Should I? Or should I just drop him? I texted back which now I wish I had not done. I want to stop talking to him cold turkey but I just hurt so much right now because I know he was with someone Sunday night and he stayd over at her house. This just confirms to me that the only reason why he said I could go out with other guys is to make himself feel less guilt for being with another girl.
Help!!!
Aega-Im sorry you are hurting and having a bad day but at least now you are out of all that.Like NML says sometimes we have to go trough a short term pain to have a long term gain.
“I say you don’t bite, girl. To hell with soccer scores… ”
I wont if he tries to contact me again.How I regret to had answered it both times(when he started texting me daily after ignoring me for 3 weeks and that time after 2 months NC),I had the chance to show him the door was closed but missed it.So now he probably fells that he can come in and out my life whenever suits him and that I will be there to receive him with open arms.I realy hope that he contacts me again so I can ignore him this time how I should have done.
@Angelina,
I’m scared of the worst of the pain coming back, too. I seem to be in some kind of remission at the moment; I’m mostly numb and the resentment for how he misrepresented himself comes only sporadically. You said that, “at the point where I went NC, I knew the worst that would happen is that I would hurt. Okay. Been there many times before with physical and emotional pain. So, nothing prepared for this type of pain.†And then you said that you had at some point been willing to “go wherever the ride takes me.†Do you think that we had given a kind of silent consent to participate in these hugely one-sided relationships by acknowledging to both ourselves and these men that yes, we would be hurt, but it was worth to hurt to take this amazing love they were offering us? I remember saying on more than one occasion to him that one has to experience the lows in order to appreciate the highs. That my idea of living life fully was to welcome with open arms whatever it threw my way because I didn’t want to miss out on the truly wonderful as the price of avoiding the painful.
The isolation was horrible before I found this site. Not only are we unwilling to advertise the depth of the pain as you said, but we are unable to share any of it with the people around us because most folks would either condemn or trivialize. I share Jetred’s appreciation of being able to come here for solace or kudos both – on my good and on my bad days. But mostly, I think the comfort I find within the community here is that whenever I catch myself rooting so hard for one of us or having my heart break when someone is in her worst moments of suffering – it occurs to me that we all *get* one another here. Many of us here have said that we had been drawn to a particular man because he appeared to really feel and perceive the world the way we do. Some of them did. In the end, however, the darker aspects of their personalities (and ours) took toll on us precisely because of how well they had understood us. Here, that understanding comes without a price to pay.
@Anusha,
I’m not “all out of it†– I just seem to be displaying more resilience that usual. The fact that I was able to keep myself from sending a finalizing email owes to my almost pathological stubbornness and to a feeling of inertia that I am sure is just a sign of depression. Don’t go wishing that you hadn’t replied to those text messages because it’s nothing to beat yourself up over. They were just text messages. So you sent a couple this time, and maybe in the future you won’t bother. Either way, if he is attaching any significance to either one or the other, that’s his problem. It takes 5 seconds out of your life to send a text – let him spend time to try and fetter out any meaning from it; you don’t need to bother. If it occurred to you after you had sent these that you wish you hadn’t just say, oops. You have only wasted 5 seconds of your time. You didn’t throw yourself at him, and if he interpreted a couple of sentences as having power over you – well, I’m sure there are people out there that still think the earth is flat. So what? Their thinking it doesn’t make it flat.
He sent me an email yesterday evening. I saw it and almost opened it. But I got that wormy feeling in my stomach again and realized that since he is the king of disappointment the chances were that reading it would just make that feeling worse. So I just left it there. I’m not curious what’s in it because there is nothing in the world that an email could contain that would suddenly turn the two of us into a happy couple. And everything else is just more meaningless crap or something that will bring me down more, so what’s the use of reading it?
Thank you, NML. I really needed this post today.
WOW this is what I have always felt but couldn’t put it in words. !!It makes perfect sense as usual.
@lostgurl
I think deep down you know the answers – they are all deep inside. You know he is no good, you know you deserve better, you know your needs are not being met, you know this AC will never change.
Let him go, cut him loose and don’t look back. You’re hurting now just being involved in any way shape or form..and yes the pain of separation will hurt (sometimes hurt real bad) because you will long for him. But if you use the NCRule and start listening to your instincts, your gut dispite however much we want to reach out to him you won’t because you will honor your own feelings and stay NC. You must have gurlfriends that will support you and call them when you think you need to call him.
You are so much better than what how he’s treating you!!! He’s such and ASSCLOWN that he does not have the wherewithall (guts) to break it off with you. He is begging you to cut him free even though he can’t do it himself. What a piece of sh*t!
As I’ve said before and I’ll say it again….Run – run like your hair is on fire and don’t look back. When you’re not sure how to cope read this site, read the old ones, new ones, the comments others have posted it will help feel less alone and you’ll start empowering yourself, which means you’ll feel less and less like interacting with him, and the times where the anxiety kicks in and you’re tempted to contact him you’ll think twice. You’re not crazy – he’s just playing with your heart, your emotions, and making you feel that way. Feelings are temporary, they come and go. Just stay strong – we’re all here if you need us!
I imagined him here tonight as I sat on the tram, relaxed and happy if somewhat too warm. I imagined him sitting behind me on the only other spare seat.
My god he was annoying. I’d forgotten how annoying. Thank God he is 5500 miles away from me!
Oh re mails = set up a rule to autodelete without advising you. Much better!
Oh BTW date back on … I’m seeing this as just a nice night out not expecting anything 🙂
Aega-Good for you,there is realy no point on reading his email.He gave you his answer about what really mattered already so that email probably is just a attempt to convince you to continue invested.Remember that EUMs are pretty good with words but what realy matters is actions.
Yeah I know is only texts but I remember reading on a post here that the EUM interpretate you bothering to answer their text as a sign that you are still invested.But I was carefull to not do or say anything that showed I still care,like asking how he was or trying to make a conversation,plus I didnt answer until the day after he sent it.So to me I tried to show that I didnt care but like I said maybe to him just the fact that I bothered to answer can be interpretate as I care.So next time(if he contacts me again) I think that just ignoring can send more clearly the message that the door is closed.
yes, nc works
.-= debra´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
@Anusha – I’m sure you’ll get your chance to make a “silent statement”. But even if you don’t, you still got to leave on your terms. It doesn’t matter whether he assumes you’re still emotionally invested or is concerned that you have moved on – remember that it’s not about him anymore. Think about it: how you get through the next day is going to be the same whether he thinks you are missing him or not. You’re in NC. His thoughts no longer dictate your actions.
@Butterfly, I would like to have even a fraction of your strength. I can’t make mysef set up the autodelete yet. I tried. I’ve made zero progress today and am miserable as hell.
So when’s your date?
@Anusha – I’m sure you’ll get your chance to make a “silent statement”. But even if you don’t, you still got to leave on your terms. It doesn’t matter whether he assumes you’re still emotionally invested or is concerned that you have moved on – remember that it’s not about him anymore. Think about it: how you get through the next day is going to be the same whether he thinks you are missing him or not. You’re in NC. His thoughts no longer dictate your actions.
@Butterfly, I would like to have even a fraction of your strength. I can’t make myself set up the autodelete yet. I tried. I’ve made zero progress today and am miserable as hell.
So when’s your date?
Aega-That is true,what he thinks and fells shouldnt matter anymore.I think I just wanted to make him fell like I did all the relationship,rejected and not cared about much.Anyway you are right,NC is about me not him so all that not really matters.
Aega: In rereading NML’s post on “fear” and then reading your responses to my queries . . .
Did we end up getting involved with AC/EUMs because of our fear of being alone? I can’t explain how I ended up “here”, but I do know that one just doesn’t “fall into” an extra relationship. Were we hedging out bets, as NML said in earlier posts on this topic, and thinking that this guy was the person that the spouse could never be, in that “special way of his?”
I don’t think it was fear of being alone, but I can’t explain how someone (me) who didn’t believe in soul mates, ended up saying that while I didn’t believe in “soul mates” this guy got me in a way no one else had.
The other thing that I find intriguing is that in my single days, any guy who would have been this wishy washy towards me and about everything else – I wouldn’t have thought twice about. Ughhh…
As for where the ride would take me – the comment wasn’t around starting this relationship. The comment was related to exploring different careers and seeing where I landed.
I can assure you that I didn’t ever intend on landing here, recovering from an affliction that was caused by _________________. I take full responsibility, and I have found some answers, but the “it” just hasn’t hit. Until then, I will keep reading and posting. I know the answer for my “why” is there, I just haven’t found it.
I’ve never commented here before. I’ve spoken with NML, I’ve read the blogs, and I’ve blogged myself stupid.
The short story is I met a guy, fell in love, everything seemed great until I disappointed him in any way. Like when I cancelled on a concert because we were in the middle of an icestorm, my house had no power, and I didn’t want to leave my house, with all the tree limbs on the roof, unattended while running on a generator. Lots of stuff like that. Nothing deliberate, just the things in life that come up and you can’t always avoid. Like a late flight. He would disappear on me, no explanation at all, for at least a month, and only respond to my calls after he felt I had been good and punished. He pulled the disappearing act 3 times before I finally ended it. Ashamedly, I didn’t end it because I figured out I deserved better…..I just knew I couldn’t handle the 4th time. Haven’t spoken with him now in almost 3 months. The longest I’ve ever gone with NC.
He has replaced me and I actually know the girl. It is killing me. I meant nothing to him and it hurts like hell. I should’ve known that anyway, but until I could put a face with my replacement, I don’t think I had given up hope that he would come back. I feel very alone, very helpless, and very stupid. I hate it.
It’s been over a month since my Assclown was cruel to me – again. I have been doing LC (little contact) but am working on progress to no contact. This blog and the articles have been very helpful this time around are providing the reinforcement I need to convince myself that NC is really the only way to go with this guy. His voice gets to me and it will only be a matter of time until he sends one of those cute emails or calls with a question he’ll say only I can answer.
NC – soon. Thanks for the help and good luck to all.
Ladies, actual NC is hard at the start and gets easier just like everyone says. I think you just have to steel yourself, detatch yourself and “do the unthinkable” in a very thorough way, all at once.
Then you might waver, fall etc. I think we all do, it’s our nature to over-care (that can be changed too). Don’t beat yourself up, just get back on the wagon and start again with more knowledge.
@workinprogress – hi honey. One of my red flags for men now is “soon” – not if there’s other things happening maybe but just an uncommitted vague “soon” is straight to the reject pile. Are you learning this behaviour from him? This avoidance enables him to treat you like crap, then you avoid him and the situation and the dance goes on. Do the right thing – tell him to respect your wishes then block him.
@Aega – I don’t feel strong at all. You’re just seeing me further down the line, that’s all, after I did exactly what I just said above. Thank you though, makes the prospect of a very dull lesson seem less horrific as I sit here yawning. I’m seeing this guy tonight, I’m viewing it as just friends and we’ll see where it goes and how he treats me (if the interest level still seems to be there then I’ll subtly let him know I like him… no red flags so far but hey …)
“Fear of having to deal with whatever issues you have instead of focusing on them.
Fear that you’ll never find someone who brings out these extreme feelings in you.
Fear of loss and losing.†– these all apply to me, but I am facing each one of those in going NC again with my ex. I know I am facing the first one, because I have a commitment to healing by starting counselling next week. Hopefully the other two will be addressed there too – I tend to like intensity in relationships, and maybe that’s not 100% healthy as maybe it’s actually drama-seeking.
“isn’t it time to ask yourself what’s the worst that can happen? If the worst that can happen is that you discover that he really is as awful as you think he is and that he’s not capable of giving you what you want, this is actually freeing. Flogging a dead horse and sticking to them like glue isn’t going to change them.†– this fear is actually becoming a reality for me. I have hoped against hope that he will change if I just give him ‘one more chanceâ€, but I have given him one too *many* chances. He has gone past the 3-redflag limit, and he’s showing me who he is, and what I really mean to him (not what I hoped).
“Feeling isolated in relationships breaks your spirit but unfortunately the only way to break the isolation is to start having faith in you.†– words of wisdom, NML, I am starting to have a little faith in myself that I can break free from this. I am facing the fear and pushing through it.
@Aega – yes, I feel good after that final email. It did feel like I was empowering myself, instead of him, which was great. You said you would have given up everything for your AC if he had taken you up on your offer, then you say “As for my marriage – I can’t go back.†Have you broken up with your husband then? I don’t mean to be nosy, just trying to get a feel for where you’re at in getting overall clarity. I realize you feel you have betrayed him terribly, but it’s still possible to forgive yourself, ask him for forgiveness for anything you may have done to hurt him (without confessing all) and moving forward with that relationship. This is all from Myra K’s book – I wish I could send it to you!!! Sorry if I am giving unwanted advice – I just think it’s a shame when people feel they can’t work through challenges in a marriage.
“I came from multiple marriages on both my parents’ sides and I didn’t know a ripple from a rift; to me,†– me too, and that has affected my own ideas of relationships, too.
“Whenever he expressed any kind of insecurity about himself my emotional reaction to make it better would instantly kick in regardless of how much hurt he had caused me with his turn to “run awayâ€. – yes, me too – our “rescuer†tendencies as women who love too much (have you read that book, BTW? Women Who Love too Much, Robin Norwood?) I love your analogy of him opening a door to a house then retreating inside– seemed to fit!
“I suppose we will continue this melange of disbelief, anger, sadness, and all those other post-break-up feelings we’d rather not have for a long time.†– I’m right there with you, and on the same day NC, too! I agree that the isolation is not as bad as it could be if we didn’t have the wonderful women on this site who “get†one another to go through all of this together. Aega, that must take a lot of willpower not to open his email! I would be so curious (although I also know my ex couldn’t send any email that would make things “all betterâ€) – are you going to delete it unread?
@Angelina – yes, the pining is isolating. And for me, it snowballs, because while I am pining for him, I don’t feel like interacting with anyone else (but I do force myself to do that). The pain is horrendous, yes, and I don’t know about you, but my mind plays tricks on me to try to remove that pain – “maybe it won’t be so bad to continue the relationship on his terms. Then at least I won’t have this horrible pain – how bad could that be if I try not to feel too much for him†really a load of rubbish, but who says we’re rational when we’re bleeding from ending a “non-relationship?â€
“I can’t explain how someone (me) who didn’t believe in soul mates, ended up saying that while I didn’t believe in “soul mates†this guy got me in a way no one else had.†That’s my situation too. I don’t believe that there is one right person for each of us out there – never did feel I had to look for “the oneâ€. I think we could be happy with one of a number of suitable partners. And yet, I definitely don’t believe it’s right to start relationships with someone else’s partner, and yet I did just that with my ex. I don’t know what it is about him…..(except maybe the father thing). You mentioned “in your single days†Are you also in a primary relationship, and your ex MM was an “extra†relationship?
@lisa – “I really did think he was “the one†so to break it off and have faith in ME was a really hard place to come to, but now all these months later with the help of this site, and reading other woman’s “hills and valleys†stories, I am totally on the way to a healthier me, and it doesn’t hurt so much.†That is so encouraging to hear – thanks for that.
@Jetred – I love the way you emphasized your personal qualities, even if you don’t feel “drop-dead gorgeous†– these count way more than the physical for any long term relationship!!! No, you don’t deserve *his* love, you deserve better!!!
@lostgurl – I agree that you should RUN and not look back, and hopefully you can find it within yourself to do this ASAP!!!
@jenny – sorry to hear your guy treated you so poorly. It sounds like leaving was the best thing you could do for yourself, as he sounds EU. A month is a long time to disappear without communicating. It sucks to be alone, but there are many on this site who are trying to heal after breaking up with EUM, so know you are not really alone.
@workinprogress – my ex has an amazing voice too, and now that I’m NC he will not be able to suck me in that way. Good luck with your decision to go NC instead of LC!!! I find coming here to read the posts and to give and receive support to/from others is very helpful, and *almost* as satisfying as getting an email from *him* used to be
😉
@Butterfly – I like your idea of “doing the unthinkable’ – NC does go against everything our fbg brains tell us to do, but you are right – the only way to go! I hope your date goes well 🙂
@everyone – OK, so I went to an amusement park yesterday – roller coasters, gravity drop, water rides, you name it. I screamed until I could hardly talk. It was very cathartic, and much healthier than getting that similar high from the ex EUM! I left the park feeling tired but more peaceful, and I loved having to “fear for my life†as I went upside-down on the roller coaster, instead of experiencing the EU fears we have been discussing here.
this morning i did something so very stupid :'( I reached out to my ex EU and got smacked hard in the face with his cold, insensitive and uncaring words.
Today would have been the start to NC week 3. He text me for the first time since NC on monday evening saying that he would like his bike back that I borrowed and that a piece of mail for me had come to my house. I text him back that evening that I was sorry about the mail and I was currently working on transferring it all and he could pick up the bike from my house when I was at work or school. He replied with : I dont mind your mail comes here. I just wanted to let you know. I will pick up the bike later. Thanks.
I havent been able to shake off the yearning to ask him if he missed me too since. So this wednesday morning I sent a text asking him if he ever misses what we had. He said that he refuses to answer that question and he is not falling for my game playing anymore. “sorry”. that he didnt want to say anything that would make me become attached again. (we were in a relationship for 1.5 years)
I tried to defend myself saying that I do not play games I just havent gotten over him as fast as he has gotten over me. I asked him because I still missed him and I was being honest not playing games. I told him that I went NC because I couldnt even be in the same room with him without crying and wondering why he didnt want to try again, why he didnt think I was worth the effort and yet kept texting and sleeping with me (when I told him no more sex but he would tell me he loved me and I would eventually cave every time). I told him to pick up his bike today while Im at work so we can go back to NC and I can get back on track to getting over him and moving on. He never responded and my roommate said he has not come by to pick up the bike yet.
Im so mad at myself. I wanted to to tell me he misses me so bad and tell me he loves me. Instead he was cold and accused me of playing games. I feel like all the progress I have made in the past two weeks was for nothing. Usually in weak moments I call a friend or do something else, in a split second i decided to text him instead. In less than a second I manage to undue two weeks worth of progress.
I am thinking about changing my number so I dont look at my phone everyday and be sad that he is not…… ugh why do I care?!?!?! Im so messed up.
today is a bad day for me.
@Tara – please don’t beat yourself up for breaking NC. You wondered if he missed you, and you got an answer. He is not interested in a loving, mutually satisfying and respectful relationship with you right now. Sure we want our exes to miss us as much as we miss them – have you read NML’s post “does my ex My Unavailable or AC miss me?” To find it, go to search archives at the bottom of the Baggage reclaim home page and choose July from the pulldown menu. You may find that post and the comments helpful.
You did break NC, but you are deciding to get right back to NC, so you have not lost 2 weeks of progress at all. I broke NC after 5 weeks myself, and I am returning to NC (day 3) feeling stronger than I did the first time around. It sucks that they are not pining for us like we are for them, it hurts like hell, but it doesn’t matter. What matters is that they can’t hurt us any more, and that is what returning to NC does. That phone number change may be a good idea for you. I think like with any major change we make in our lives, even if we fall off the wagon now and then, when we get back on we are stronger because we have more coping strategies.
I send you huge hugs of understanding and empathy, and just know that there are many of us here right along with you. XXXXXXOOOOOO
thank you meant :'( I just have to get through today and pick up my pride that I shattered (notice I said I because I know that I was wrong to seek validation and allow him to hurt me again). I will make it through. I will NEVER make that mistake again. thank you for replying, it helped me a lot ::hugs::
@meant, Best wishes for you and NC as well. You are an inspiration to a girl like me
@Tara
Thanks for the best wishes. I think what we both need to do is to take care of ourselves. We need to get to the point that we don’t *need* validation from our exes to be happy. We need to work on being happy just to be our amazing selves. Let’s do something just for ourselves today – listen to some favourite music, have a long bath, go shopping, read a great book, dance around the house to awesome dance music. You know, I think I may do ALL of those things! And if I start to think about *him* I’m gonna tell myself STOP, and think of something way better, healthier and rewarding than his sorry self.
Luck to you Tara – I’m heading out to shop !!!
Meant, I love the amusement park idea. It sounds like a good, healthy way to get a lot of possibly pent up screaming out! I need to schedule a trip for myself before my body gets too old to handle it!
NML I always wondered how is it that you are always writting about exactly what is going on with my UEM? Because until now I didnt want to admit that I really had an UEM on my hands. Because he didnt have ALL the characteristics of the usual Assclown that when he came back to me after some NC treatment things would be alright. WRONG!! god he was blowing so hot hotter than he ever had and I ate it up he knew it was what i wanted to hear. I wanted him so say those things to me so badly. Now not a few weeks later a complete total freeze out. No calls in three days just one word answers to the two text inquiries that I made. He is really going through a lot right now but I cant help thinking that he doesn thave to shut me out of his life like this because of it. This article is so right I have to face what im not happy about with myself that I need validation and have given so much power to this person. That he can crush me just by not calling me. I almost think the pain of staying with him is not as bad as having to confront what my problems are.
@Tara When there’s unfinished business there’s no real NC. Think of it this way: you haven’t broken NC and that reaching out well … once the odds and ends are done it will help, truly. Also, week 3 is great but proper full NC really does get much easier with time too.
@ Meant LOL at the rollercoaster, excellent idea (not one for me tho!!!!) what a great way to get your ups and downs. Had a nice night out, made each other laugh a little, was more serious than flirty but you know what? I prefer this to the full on crap that passes for attention. End of the night he came to the Metro with me even though he lives 1Km in the opposite direction, insisted on waiting for my train with me (and also made sure he was on the platform when I arrived cos this Metro is confusing) and I gave him a peck on the cheek. Nothing more. No dates planned with a date but he thanked me for a lovely evening and said he wanted to do it again once his next course was over (I think he meant exam). I’m happy with that – it’s one thing someone being flippy flappy and avoidant quite another when you know someone is doing something really major and they’ve come through when they said they would before, right?
@sadkitty the pain of working on yourself is actually not so bad when you have titforbrains out of the way. Seriously.
BTW Meant … I am really smiling reading your posts … I see my own words paraphrased from a few weeks ago and I know you’re making it through 🙂
Well, y’all, I had written a meaningful post. As I recall all the finer points of introspection and empathy were touched upon. Unfortunately, I must have hit something other than “submit” ’cause now it’s all gone and I am no longer feeling thoughtful.
So:
@Angelina – I had answers. I will have to start my quest over, however, since I can’t remember what the heck they were.
@Meant – did you barf or have cotton candy come out your nose when hanging upside down? Both have been known to be therapeutic for “man blues”. Plus I just want to know.
I opened the email, and the one that came the next evening. No butterflies, no bated breath, just curious what he could possibly write to me about. Well – a sunrise, for one, and wishing we could talk, for the second one. Ummm…. yeah…. OK…. ^o)
The marriage is in limbo. My husband is ascribing my moving away to my “artistic temperament” (meaning: all artists some unhinged at some point but it’s OK ’cause that’s when their pieces sell best). I’m going home on Friday for 10 days. No expectations, no promises, just a week at my house up in the mountains where all madness comes to a dead stop. Life is so much simpler at 9 thousand feet. Maybe some answers will come my way.
@Butterfly – I had asked for an instant replay of your date, but when I refreshed my screen there it was. So now I’m just going to say that when I used to date the guys that waited till I went inside, shut the door and turned the light on inside always got a second date. He has my wholly unsolicited initial approval.
@Tara
I broke NC at 3 weeks. The difference about starting it the second time was that it is a lot like riding a bike.
@lisa – never too old for the amusement park rides IMO! I am in my forties and LOVE the thrills 🙂
@sadkitty – I am *sick* of hearing “the things I want to hear” from my ex. I remember feeling like you – crushed when I didn’t hear from him, but once you go NC it’s actually a relief when they don’t contact you. You made a good point – if he’s going through a lot right now, and you and he are in a relationship, you’d think he’d be communicating with you much more than one syllable at a time.
@Butterlfy – awwwww, your date sounds like a sweetie so far. I hope he continues that way…
@Aega – no, I didn’t barf *or* have cotton candy exuding from my nostrils whilst upside-down, lol! The only things being projected from my body were screams of terror and joy combined. I love a good adrenaline rush!
So your ex sent, what, a picture of a sunrise? and he wants to talk – wow, that’s a bit different from the usual EUM/MM MO. That’s good you seem to realize it wouldn’t likely get anywhere. I hope you enjoy your time at home for the 10 day stretch, and yeah, if you find any answers we could benefit from on here, please let us know!!!
@work in progress – I’ve learned from everyone here that there really is no alternative to NC. I tried an tried to hang on to any contact with my exEUM. Each and everytime whether intentional or not – he delivered a world of pain my way, sending me reeling! I simply couldn’t do that to myself anymore – I am in enough pain trying to get over him without having to deal with him ill treating me or saying one thing and doing the other. Contact with him is just another way of hanging on and accepting the crumbs…cute little emails are crumbs in disguise. The sooner you cut contact the better for you.
@Meant
Like I said, it was a purely academic interest on my part… 🙂 I could never do rollercoasters, even as a kid. When I got taken on the free fall ride at Six Flags (on a dare), the people sitting across from me wanted the ride stopped because they thought I was having a heart attack (clearly a wrong diagnosis – it was just a white-knuckled clutching of the bar while deathly pale attack…)
Not a picture – he described the sunrise quite lyrically (for a guy), but the “someone I know taught me to love beauty” bit was a little over the top. I know I’m really stretching NC by reading these and by still having him on MSN, but I’m kinda amusing myself here, yanno? Today the tag next to his picture reads that he is looking for a friend, even though I am his only MSN contact. I think I need him to act this corny, though, so that when I go home I am not in the least bit tempted.
If I hear any voices I will speak to you all from the mountain… 😉 Btw, remember saying how much lighter you felt once in NC? It really does feel like a weight lifting off your shoulders, a little bit more every day. One doesn’t have to be a control freak, I suppose, to get satisfaction from regaining some measure of control over your own life.
Thank you Butterfly and Meant for your replies. @Meant yes I think that I will be relieved to just go on with my life. He has never pulled this dissapearing act on me so I think that since it was on his terms (which everything has to be) that it will be permanent. I have cried a lot today and it feels like ive got it out of my system. I think I will get over him faster with this round of NC. I was starting to get over him the last round and it was only a month. I guess that you can only break someones heart so many times before the pieces become too small to break. 🙁
@sadkitty – but when you stop letting someone smash your heart with hammers and let it heal, it is not so easy to break again in the same way. I know for sure my mirage would not have shimmered if I wasn’t already in a bad place. It feels horrible now and I can honestly say that I can’t empathise emotionally with how you are feeling now but I know I was right there. We adapt. Our brains are programmed to forget pain and move on with our lives – it is the pattern of interaction which rips us asunder, literally, not that we have become as damaged as we feel we are.
@ Meant thanks babe. I do feel very differently after this date than others in my life because this is a very different sort of man, truly. I’ve always attracted rock types/artists (hello EU/poss Narc brother, hello EU dad!!! waves). Having said that he reminds me in some ways of my dad but that’s the same nationality:most men here do co they sound like him when they speak English lol. I don’t think that’s significant though.
What attracted me to my mirage was the illusion he gave of setting out with aims and acheiving them – illusion, surprise surprise, being the operative word. I found out last night that I misunderstood – my date has been on an operation before where he was I guess the level of a sargeant:this time he is aiming for platoon leader. Why? Because someone has to try to keep the world a little safer. I respect this dude.
I realise that this is new to me – all my rocker types I fancied like crazy but under it all I didn’t think well of them.
Anyway, not going to worry too much about it all!
@Aega – come on, wise up. He says you are his only friend on there, you think so? I got bullshit like that. So MSN is the only thing he runs? Just delete him, because you are still invested in him.
OH sorry …
@cece 100000% right darlin!!!!
@Meant that picture of a sunrise isn’t that new it’s just tailored. I’m pretty sure you have described Narc tendancies in this guy in the past? It’s string pulling/button pushing call it as you will but it is manipulation. When you see it that way it ceases to be romantic when these guys pull their little machinations …
Almost broke NC tonight…I was going to send an IM. Watched a movie instead. Somehow, it still feels that I fell off the wagon. Guilt for wanting to contact someone who only communicates through abusive and denegrating actions. And by wanting to do this, I’ve also broken the sisterhood rule…he’s with someone else. I should have more respect for her and most importantly, for myself. Whew, I’m losing my mind.
No you’re not Jetred, you didn’t send it did you? Well then … power to you girly!
Hi everyone! This site really helped me end my “non-relationship” with a married man. It took real strength. But sometimes, I think about the happy times with him and I feel sad not having that now. I never felt bad with him nor when he is not around (read:back in the arms of his wife). My decision to put him in his place rested on the fact that he is married, with a new-born baby and that I will remain a secret for a very long time.
Question is: how to move on?
I’m doing fine, glad that I have found something to do before I called it quits. I’ve not been missing him for 2 months now. Yet, I sometimes wonder if I will ever be able to make good choices again. I did not intend to date a married man because we were already an item before he got married, but I still ended up in such a predicament. Ironic!
I don’t want to be friends with him now, either. And I think it is healthy. I’m just so impatient of the time to come when I can be really really happy!
I make 4 months NC today!!!!! Like you all know I did fell like breaking it a few times but I was able to resist.Realy girls is the best thing for us.I know sometimes is hard but with time gets better and you(I know I do) start to fell free from all that drama and bad fellings from the interaction with him.Im determinated to not think about him anymore from now.I havent contacted him but I still think about him and try to figure him out on my head sometimes.Anyway he probably doesnt try to figure me out or spend half of the time that I do thinking about me so I fell kind of sily to keep doing it,plus I want to be realy over him once for all.So from now on I will work on that.
@Butterfly – your date sounds like he has some substance! Much more than some of the other men we speak of on here. And that was Aega that got the sunrise thing, not me. I haven’t heard from my ex since I re-started NC 🙂
@Anusha – congratulations on making 4 months NC. So glad to hear it’s getting easier and easier for you.
@sadkitty – I think I know what you mean about it getting harder to break your heart. The first 2 times I broke up with my ex I sobbed uncontrollably for days (while he was probably just going about his life as usual). The third time (which was the first time after finding this site) I only bawled my eyes out the night I had to see him again. Now I have re-established NC, I haven’t cried at all, and hopefully this is because my heart is finally wising up to the fact that he doesn’t really love me and probably never did – he only loves himself. I also have reconnected with some friends I haven’t seen for a while, which helps with the loneliness. It does still hurt, though, a lot…
@Jetred – good for you – you didn’t send the message!
@HB – you don’t miss your ex MM any more? that’s fantastic, and probably means you are healing and getting closer to the time where you *can* be truly happy. I’m not sure about the moving on part, as I’m so new at this breaking up with an EUM/MM thing myself, but I am always hopeful that the future will be much brighter than the past – like you, I did not like being a “secret”, or for keeping such a big secret from my friends and family. It really is no way to live.
“If you don’t trust yourself, you don’t have faith in you.”
This is so true. I have to work on this. Long story short, my XEUM is bicurious as it turns out and has soliciting male-to-female transsexuals for money. He cheated on me with actual females, as it turns out, but I’ve learned he had experiences with transsexuals in the past. Like most very closeted men, he is very anti-gay in his speech, often referring to dirty “queers” and the f-words.
He left things with me (his bike, keys, etc.) I contacted him to ask him where to send the things and he was cold and cruel and hung up on me. I did call back because I was not sure whether it was the phone – which was a payphone, I don’t want him to know my new phone number – and he did answer so I am unsure on whether he was an AC and hung up or not. Which brings me back to NML’s quote. I feel awful about everything, but I think I am getting closer to being “OK.” I hope so. I feel bad for breaking NC. It’s been four months since we broke up and he’s made no attempt to contact me and replaced me fairly quickly. Last night’s call showed me that he never really gave a care about me at all and I am upset and ashamed that I gave my heart to someone so obviously heartless.
@Aega – sorry, I meant to say I agree with Butterfly re: MSN. So you are his only contact, and yet you are not IMing each other – so, does he just go online and sit there and stare at your green avatar thingy all day? Sounds kind of pointless for him to do. And you say you are getting amusement from seeing him online and reading his corny status changes, but I would think that even seeing him there would be counterproductive to trying to get over him. It’s like you’re teasing and torturing each other.
@Starcollector – thank goodness you are broken up from this person who has disrespected you so deeply. You may have “given your heart” to him temporarily, but you have it back now, and you can be more careful with it in the future. No need to feel ashamed about it though – you didn’t *plan* to love someone who would hurt you, you were just trusting of him, and he betrayed your trust. Can you make sure he gets his keys and bike back without you having to see him or even talk to him? Maybe a text or email – “I will leave your things at _____ if you want to retrieve them” – maybe a mutual acquaintance’s house?
@Meant I know she did but you said it was new MO … it’s familiar to those of us who have had the Narc running hot treatment though – you WILL want me … you WILL want me … ok that didn’t work … that didn’t … try this then oh look that got your attention right tell me how AWESOME I am. What’s that? You care? -> EXIT
Call me cynical if you wish but tbh knowing these machinations really helps me to not care. I do still think about it all, but it gets fainter and fainter. I know from experience that if I was exposed to him again it would come back full force no matter how much I have come along: my Achilles Heel will be the mirage. However, I am on guard against any other mirages and I see the illusion clearly now.
My worry is how not to start applying it where it doesn’t count, like not knowing when I will see this guy and wondering if it’s a red flag but there is more danger in overanalysis than anything else. I don’t feel anxious and while it makes me smile to hear back from him it isn’t dizzying highs and terrifying lows, so … we’ll see. If he doesn’t get on the action someone else might tho 🙂 LOL
@Starcollector Hmmm this sounds familiar, too familiar for comfort to my mirage. I morphed to accept his cross dressing cos tbh that’s not so big a deal but I did wonder what he got up to towards the end of hot and into the flippy flappy. I agree with Meant, be glad you are no longer with someone who can’t respect you, others or himself and is clearly very troubled by the aspects of his identity and sexuality that he is in denial of. Get your stuff then get the hell out of touch, you are wise to use a payphone beacause although I know he won’t ever call me and probably by now is too afraid of rejection to text me, he had these numbers. Urgh.
ouch sorry (edit function please NML!!!!!!) HE used a payphone …
Whenever I see someone in a bad relationship with a person who doesn’t treat them well, it’s usually because the person never treated themselves well either. They were always beating themselves up or had low self-esteem issues. They need to love themselves before anyone else can.
Here’s something very silly. In the online game I sometimes play we had a time with everyone changing gender (and appearance to match) so I have spent the last hour acting like a total arsehole. All the guys said afterwards how they’d felt quite used by the women … and you can imagine ladies how rude we all were. It was cathartic for me and hopefully made these guys think.
Meant to be Happy -Thank you 🙂 It does get easier with time and the empowering felling get stronger too.So to all of you that are doing NC,hang in there girls.
Today is day 40 of no contact it is good being back on the wagon after 5 months of no contact…
His birthday is coming up soon and a while ago I purchased a b’day card for him but now I have no desire to send it. It is completely inappropriate and only sends the message I’m still invested in you, so this morning for the first time in a long time I thought I just can’t be bothered anymore with him so I won’t bother with his birthday and continue on.. I guess now my only regret is I wasted time a lot of time on offering my friendship to someone who clearly wasn’t interested and told me so through his actions which in no way matched his words…
I agree with those who say it gets easier with time and usually when you fall of the no contact wagon it is easier to get back on and go longer and longer with contacting him..
I like that he is beginning to fade away in mind because life is so much bigger than him.. so good luck to all on the no contact journey..
MNL writes above
” our desire to be with someone has us sidelining ourselves and forgetting about family, friends, work, passions,”
so,I just got back from my four day canoe camping expedition, with the dog, a guitar and a copy of the only positive thinking pop psych book I have ever read..” Excuses Begone”, a book about breaking negative, self defeating habitual thoughts..like ummm, for example, that an AC will come around if you just keep waiting, and working, and dreaming about them coming around…NOT
NC is breaking a habit, an addiction, and your goal is to remember all you dreams and passions you had before you gave them up for the false passion of the EUM. The EUM cannot or will not do the work needed to manifest dreams and passions. He is a clown. It’s bad enough that we buy into this lopsided arrangement with a clown, but the crime of my isolation was to make the AC a passion at the expense of my other passions.
Well, like the book says, excuses begone. It’s so clear. I let myself get sidetracked from my goals, in an insidious way, by the dishonest and lazy behavior of someone I considered a very close friend. This was so dispiriting, that I lost my spirit, I knew it, and I stayed away from others, maybe to avoid spreading the negativity.
But all that is in the past.
So, as agea asked me to listen for the rgeat spirit out there in the wilds… here is what he great spirit told me..it’s a bit vague-ish, the old zen stuff. The past is gone, we have only the present moment to connect with all that is good inside of us. And if we are going to live outside of the moment, as we humans are wont to do..well for goodness sake, lets do it by planning things that are good for us, life affirming and in support of our very own heartfelt dreams, goals and passions – things that let us hear our own great spirit that is within is.
And as a caveat to anyone here…be careful that any adult you choose to bring into your life has their own great spirit, that their spirit is good and powerful and loving… and thus they will know how to love and respect you in return. Aega, I about your marriage, and its not really on topic but..I do believe that strong love can transcend any issue, thats a time will tell sorta thing. Good luck to you and everyone reading this far. Anyone thinking of NC, trust me, NC is the beginning of a better path.
WB aphrogirl, so glad to see that your batteries have been recharged 🙂
***
I had karmic payback for even playing the asshole maybe, even in fun. I’ll spare details cos they won’t apply to anyone here but I had an experience which almost put me in direct contact with someone who my mirage used to make me jealous about. I realised that there was the potential to have direct contact with him and tbh my admiration for the ladies who deal with their ex asshole has increased fivefold because I was literally sick to my stomach and this was only on the internet where he is blocked – it was the very IDEA of being in contact with him.
Needless to say this turned into the usual “does he still care/miss me/was he sad?” crap and I realised ever more that this has nothing to do with him and the reality of him at all. Then I went to do something else but there’s a shadow there now. I know work will chase that away as I put all my attention on it but yeah – NC is for life!
It’s almost like I broke it, but I didn’t so there has to be something in the “pain addiction” thing because the thought was not fully formed but the impulse was still tugging.
Food for thought, for me.
INdirect contact, sorry
Hi ladies. I’m in a fleabag hotel with a kingsize bed, which makes me extra worried about the potential size of the aforementioned fleas. If I break off midsentence – I’m probably wrestling one for my life…
Welcome back aphrogirl!! I just KNEW the Great Spirit would come through (and not even ask you to drink any Koolaid in the process… 🙂 Seriously, though, I reread this sentence a few times, “your goal is to remember all you dreams and passions you had before you gave them up for the false passion of the EUM.” You’re right: we let them replace the real stuff for a while, didn’t we? The marriage thoughts – I’m taking those one baby step at a time. It’s my turn to commune with nature in the upcoming two weeks and hopefully I’ll gain some insight as you did.
@Butterfly – I’d say a platoon leader – or a sargeant – trumps a rock star any day (I can’t say anything bad about the artist type since I doodle for a portion of my living myself, but I also wouldn’t date one again). Your play-by-play of the Narc “hot treatment” was so on the money it’s scary. I love your smartass wit and so I was in stitches, too, but it does embarrass me when I think of all the times I fell for this routine of his. It’s almost cathartic though to watch him try to put me through all the hoops again but now reading it the way I should. I feel almost strangely detached.
@Anusha – yay!!!!! 4 months is a huge chunk of time and willpower. Good on you girl!
@Meant and Butterfly – you know my guy had a few strange leanings, too. Not cross-dressing (not that I knew of, anyway), but there were a couple of times when things got a little too much for me, and I am a pretty open person. And yes, I do I do I do want to delete him from my MSN, but can’t yet. I always stay showing off-line so he doesn’t get to see me, so I don’t know why I’m keeping him on there. I honestly have had zero temptation so far to reconnect with him.
Home tomorrow, and a little curious what he will try to do, if anything. Because of the former work connection we have lots of overlapping acquiantances and I’m sure he already knows I’m flying in tomorrow. None of these people have a clue as to what happened between him and me; they only knew us as two very close friends. So I can’t ask them to not say anything. I know that seeing him would be incredibly hard and all my current nonchalance would evaporate on the spot.
@Aega I really empathise but if you just DO it then it’s done. Seriously, from experience. Maybe plan yourself a little celebration – my stock in trade was always a long pampering bath and then candles and incense and a book. Pity I only have a shower now 🙂
Yeah rock guys suck. This didn’t stop me simply aching with lust at some guy on the Metro yesterday – the works, long shiny hair, tanned, toned, not too many piercings or tattoos … just right. I thought with my brain after a millisecond though and my brain said “yeah, idiot, look where it gets you!”.
@Anusha – good for you sweetheart x
hi again everyone, I am gonna share one more insight, if you are like me and you find yourself ruminating, playing over the most hurtful things said or done, beating yoursefl up in various ways over the whole EUM experience…well, that is a neccessary step or stage
But, here was another major insight, posed as some sort of theosophical questions…those thoughts that are in our heads, the injustice of it all, our pain and sadness, our incredulousness at how we fooled ourselves, or were fooled by them…all those thoughts ad nauseum..how do they serve our higher purpose of feeding our passions and our dreams ? how do those thoughts serve our ability to serve the good inside of us and take it outside of us, to make the world a better place. This finding the good in me and taking it out to the world is the antithesis of isolation to me.
i suspect this about all the thoughts the EUm brought to my head…. while its so important to acknowledge them, its also so important to see that staying with those same thoughts of anger and pain is an obstacle for getting back on track to serving the higher good that is in me, and by that I mean my passions and goals
so, you know my latest technique when all those thoughts arrive is to challenge them with a simple question ” how do these thoughts serve my higher purpose” and then the answer comes so quick, they do not, let them go.
just sharing, in case it helps anyone else. have a good day
@Tulipa – “life is so much bigger than him†– you said a lot right here. I am as guilty as anyone here of thinking and thinking about my ex, trying to figure out my part in things and his part in how it all went. But the truth is, there is so much more out there that deserves our time, attention and energy. The chances of him morphing into our ideal partner is so remote, that it really does beg the question “why waste even *more* energy on him?†While my ex and I were in the most intense part of our “interaction†(refusing to say relationship), I really did go into “autopilot†at work, and I’m surprised my co-workers didn’t confront me with my forgetfulness and absent-mindedness. He was consuming so much of my energy, I had little left to devote to being an effective human being. Now that we are broken up and in NC, I plan to allow myself maybe 10 or 15 minutes each day to think about him, as I know I still have a need to process some of what happened, if only to prevent further unhealthy relationships. And of course I will allow myself time to read and post here on Baggage Reclaim, so I can keep my goal in mind, feel supported, and ease that isolating feeling. But that’s it – time to think about all other aspects of life now that I have spent the last year and a half obsessed with *him*.
@aphrogirl – “remember all your dreams and passions you had before you gave them up for the false passion of the EUM.†– I also appreciate this thought, and in fact it puts into words a feeling I’ve had the last few days. I have been a professional student for a good chunk of my life, and September always feels like the beginning of a new year for me. So, as this September draws near, I have been reflecting on what’s really important to me, how I would like my life to look, where I would like to be spending my time and energy. I am also trying to plan time to indulge in my passions, because they do bring such joy to life, and make me feel like a more rounded, self-expressive person. I have also been thinking about how I can help other people even more – it’s a natural part of my job, but I want to take an even “bigger-picture†approach. I want to get away from being self-absorbed, and spending all this brain power, feelings and time on someone who is *not* going to do the same for me, and so is not a good investment time and emotion-wise. Like you suggest, I want to connect with all that is good inside me. Your “higher purpose†question *was* helpful – thank you 🙂
@Aega – wow, look out for those fleas!!! Bedbugs are even worse, so look out for kingsizebedbugs! I wish you all the best as you take those baby steps one at a time towards deciding about your marriage. Will your husband be there with you on the mountain? I’m glad you are staying “appear offline†with your ex when you are on MSN, and not IMing him. You are strong to avoid the temptation to contact him when you see him there!
From an earlier post you said “remember saying how much lighter you felt once in NC? It really does feel like a weight lifting off your shoulders, a little bit more every day. One doesn’t have to be a control freak, I suppose, to get satisfaction from regaining some measure of control over your own life.†– did you remember this from when I broke up with my ex MM back on July 9th? If so, you have an amazing memory! And yes, NC does help me to feel lighter – less crap to carry around on a daily basis. It’s much nicer to wake up in the morning feeling empowered because I am deciding *not* to communicate with him, instead of feeling anxious wondering if he will email/call/IM, or even worse, worrying that his wife or someone else will find out about the whole sordid situation.
Aega, I hope you do not have to see your ex MM when you go home. If you do, please read the advice people gave to me before I had to see my ex in person – it was realllly helpful!
@Butterfly – yes, you do have a gift for “interpreting†the words and actions of EUM’s everywhere!
So anyway, I am feeling very motivated this morning, and I plan to do some organizing and get my life partially back in order before I go back to work Monday (I was off this week, but not feeling motivated to organize earlier). I am going to take my own baby steps to resuming my life as it was *before* the EUM threw a wrench into things, only now I am MUCH more knowledgeable thanks to NML and all of you!
Love to all… Meant xo
Thank you Butterfly and Aega 🙂
Aega- I think would be good for you to delete your ex from MSN.I know is hard,I just had the courage to delete mine 6 months after the break up(I had him blocked before that).But keeping him there is like holding on to him even though you dont talk to him.Is like a emotional bond like having pictures of him around and remember that on NC you suposed to break every bond with him.And I dont know about you,but when I saw my ex online it realy messed up with my head and fellings.It made me so nervous and I would keep thinking why he was online,who he was talking to,if that had anything to do with me,what his quote means and all kind of things like that.So clearly wasnt doing me any good what convinced me that was time to delete him.
tulipa-Congratulations for the 40 days NC and good to know you are back on the wagon 🙂 I think you shouldnt send him the birthday card,it will give him the idea that you still care.That was one of my concerns when I was deciding if I should text my ex on his birthday too.I realy didnt want him to think I was still invested so I decided to not send anything.Realy just think about it,when you send somebody a happy birthday wish,specialy somebody you havent talked for a while it just means you were thinking about that person.And that you care enough to remember that day was his birthday and to do something about it(like send the birthday card).So yes it does give the message that you care and to a EUM it probably will be the ego boost that they like so much.
It’s my mirage’s birthday soon. I am going to mark it in the following way:
Think this is the best plan 🙂
@Butterfly
I think that’s a wonderful way to mark your mirage’s birthday!
Oh, and btw, I *finally* responded to your last email…
I just meet with my friend and we talked about a guy that used to be interested on me.He just got married.He was such a nice guy and asked me to date him a few times but I refused.I had just started the relationship with my ex by then and chosed him over this guy.Well now I kind of regret what I have done. I traded a very nice guy(and probably a emotionaly avaliable one) that could have been the bf and gave me the relationship I wanted for a EUM that brought me years of pain.That realy made me think.
Oh my goodness, I just got a work-related email from my ex, and at the end of it, he told me he was so busy working today that he forgot to go to his massage appointment, but it’s OK as his therapist usually forgives him if he takes her to the pub across the street for a beer and a sandwich. WTF is that? Trying to make me jealous? I know I should have ignored it in my return email, but I said “enjoy your beer with your therapist”, after I was done the work-related stuff. And yes, I am ashamed to admit I *was* a little jealous!
So now I’m hesitant to even open work related email. Eeeesh!!!
meant to be happy,
That just sucks…. I’m sorry he flaunted hanging out with another woman.
That isn’t love.
I don’t know about you, but at some point, you really do start seeing these guys for what they really are, and it feels bad for awhile.
Take care,
Lisa
this is my first time posting here, although I read a lot and have gained so much from this site. just called my assclown after several days NC. he was cruel, to say the least. why did I do it? drunk, reminiscing, etc. really wondering what is going on with me to stoop this low.
I agree completely with this post. The things that force people into destructive and non-productive relationships amaze me. I think a lot of people reveal all of the weak spots in their armor as soon as they think they’ve found someone special. And ususally those weak spots – self esteem issues, loneliness, bad break-up issues, whatever – are the first target for scumbags and losers. Just like in the military – they break a person down and then rebuild them in the image they want them to be – in a relationship, this is far too often a dependent and vulnerable individual.
-Garland
.-= Garland´s last blog ..The Rattle of THE SNAKE… PART 1 =-.
aphrogirl
I think I’m going to try that myself – cause it’s seems that everyday I’m am confronted with painful memories of my ex. Hopefully by challenging those memories and the desire to constantly beat myself up will finally stop, or at least become less frequent. thanks
@Meant
Kneejerk reaction passes with time. Next time, unless an answer is required don’t answer at all. If an answer is required make it as taciturn as is polite and professional.
That hook and barb gave him a thrill. Fuck that. You deserve better. Either that or tell him that your massage therapist is VERY strict with you, and you wouldn’t dream of disobeying him.
You know why I am saying this, specifically in the case of you and this guy, as that WOULD hit him where it hurts even if it is bullshit.
Love and strength x
meant,
oh please, any professional worth their weight does not address missed appointments with a beer and a sandwich…not only is he being a twit, of course, making sure you know he is ” desirable” by other women, since you have told him he is not good enough for you…but he’s also being a twit with the ” therpist”, by not respecting her professional time, moreover the ” therapist” is sure not looking out for herself by being bought out by a beer, sandwich and his company
of course, he would do better with a real therapist, not a massage therapist ! but there you have an AC, real therapy is work, getting a massage is eating candy
fact is, in trying to let you see his is desirable he is giving you more info to stay NC, a beer and a sandwich ..meaning attention, from a women who does not seem to have good boundaries, is what he considers meaningful enough to show off, and….. that is why you are in NC, you want more than a beer and sandwich and your boundaries are getting stronger
in the coming months just remember are recovering from the habits of addiction based on wanting for more, waiting for the substance, waiting on someone who cannot deliver. Expect jealousy and hurt and confusion and lots more, but challenge every though every time with the truth. Just hold the truth in your head, you have had the most the man can offer, and it is not enough.
Now all your work is in retraining the erroneous thinking that got you to think he could offer more. Get away from the habits by doing things you love, by yourself and with people who are healthy enough to give without wanting anything from you. All my friends know I am coming out of something difficult, few know the story, but most are being patient with me while I get through this.
oops, if there are any massage therapists out there, I deserve one of those pounding massages for how I wrote the above.
I am sorry, what I wrote was not quite fair… I did not mean to be insulting by saying you are not real therapists, of course you are
What I meant is that any guy who is running around cheating on his wife really should be considering therapy for his behavior, not massage for his body.
I do know that massage is great for relieving the physical stress that our behavior can give our bodies…but like so many holistic things, its best to get to the root of the stress, and not just address the surface issue.
sorrry, i’ve strayed off topic with this one
@lisa, Butterfly and aphrogirl
Thanks for your take on the “therapist†flaunt. It was *not* a loving thing to do, and yes lisa, it’s hard seeing him for who he really is. Butterfly – I like your idea, but my massage therapist is female and I think he knows that, lol. I didn’t think of it as not respecting *her* time, but yes, you are right aphrogirl, by not remembering his appointment he really was disrespecting her, wasn’t he? I hope she still charges him the missed appointment fee, but it sounds like she won’t. Oh, but she gets something much better than money. She gets a nice glass of Guinness, a yummy sandwich and to listen to him talk about himself for half an hour or so. What a lucky woman! NOT! Getting back to the topic of this post, perhaps he is trying to evoke fear from me – fear that I will lose him for good if I stay NC, since obviously he has other women on the horizon to stroke his ego? But like NML said, “the worst that can happen†*is* happening – I am seeing him for who he really is, as lisa suggested. He is still that selfish, disrespectful, self-absorbed user with no empathy whatsoever towards me. He is not capable of giving me what I need.
OK, no more kneejerk reactions for me. I am going to think and pause before replying to any more of his emails, which should drop off in frequency now anyway, since we are nearing the end of the post-conference follow-up stuff and we don’t have to plan the next one for quite some time.
This little game he just played has got me feeling a little anxious, but I’m not gonna let it get to me anymore. He IS a twit. I am going to have an amazing weekend, and I hope all of you do, too 🙂
I do want a bf but I dont like how people date here.I mean here when you go to a club for example the guy come to you already kissing you or the maximun they ask is your name before trying it.I dont fell much comfortable kissing a guy that I just meet or that I just know the name.I would prefer to talk first,get to know him and then kissing(if I decide that I want it) instead of going straight to the kiss.I also used to think that guys at clubs arent interested in having a relationship and just want some “fun” for the night.But my best friend meet her fiance at a club and they are together for more than 5 years now so I guess that isnt true.Anyway Im just wondering how I will find another guy if I dont like how dating is done here.
I kissed this guy on the cheek the other day, which was sort of daring. He seemed quite happy about it. I think the answer is:
Don’t go to clubs looking for love!!!
Thought about taking up some nightschool classes maybe? Something you always wanted to learn?
Anusha, what place are you referring to, a club or a country/state or what?
@aphrogirl “Just hold the truth in your head, you have had the most the man can offer, and it is not enough. ” Yep. Perfect.
I know that the reason I can’t seem to make myself delete him from MSN is that some part of me, one I am ashamed to acknowledge, still believes that this distance between us is temporary. We have said on this site over and over again that NC is *not* about showing him how much he needs you and then seeing the error of his ways, but some buried, still-in-love, lizard part of my brain is hoping for just that. I know it is or I wouldn’t have such a hard time letting go. This morning, after seeing him online with a new message next to his avatar, I actually read it to myself aloud and followed it up with a “translationâ€: “nothing newâ€, the message read. That’s right – there is nothing new: he is still married and planning to stay that way, and anything he throws my way are crumbs, intended to reel me back in so that he can go back to having his comfortable life on the one hand and the thrills he shares with me on the other. His emails and text messages continue daily, but why shouldn’t they? It’s a small time and effort investment on his part compared to the potential return if I bite the bait. 10 seconds here and there, and if it hits home he gets awesome sex and someone that adores his ass. He’s playing the nickel table for the hundred dollar table payoff.
@Butterfly, I don’t know why I can’t do this. I’m at my house now, and I walked into the bathroom this morning and thought about what you said as I was looking at the bathtub, with all my candles and scrubs and other “pampering aids†still there. It’s almost like I’m afraid that if I delete him from MSN the feeling of loss will be so huge that nothing else I do will compensate for it. Maybe it is feeding my ego that he is making contact attempts every day? It shouldn’t, because when you think about it, it is almost insulting. He is spending a few moments here and there with the goal of melting my resolve so that I go back to being his little trophy.
@Meant, the therapist bit just goes to show how afraid he is that he is losing his grip on you. It’s a dangerous tactic from our point of view, because it is so easy to interpret as the guy’s fear of losing us and therefore a sign of love. But it’s possessiveness. I have to remind myself of that every day when I get my MM’s little missives.
Yes, I was thinking back to what you said back when you started NC. I was about to start mine and was hoping that the same feeling of lightness would come to me as well. It did, too. It’s not a complete freedom yet since it is still punctuated by interludes of terrible pain and missing him, but it is there and it helps regain perspective each time I come perilously close to losing it.
can’tbelievemyself,
Some of us done that as well, dont be too hard on yourself!!! Please read NML book, it is great!
I feel so low today as well, I was with a guy about two years…HE wasnt my boyfriend but a friend with benefits…HE told me in the beginning that he was in love with me and silly me, believed him! HE was using me for all these two years and when I confronted him, that I dont want to have a part time lover, but a full time boyfriend, who can love me and be with me, he just texted me 5 (!!!) min later saying, that he cant give me what I want…
HE didnt think long, 5 min it was enough for him to make up his mind, and me wondering for two years (!!!) My sister says at least I know where I am standing, but still it’s so upsetting 🙁
Unhappy soul,
That is sad. I’m sorry to hear what you have to go through. Your sister is probably right…. it is good to know where you stand, but I still can remember the feeling of pouring my heart out to the guy who said he loved me, and then him just writing a short response with little effort.
In this day and age, texting and e-mailing are just some people’s lazy way of communicating, and for others of us, it is a great way to find support like at this web-site.
So, he can’t give you what you want. Are you willing to take less than what you want and need? NO! Or you wouldn’t have asked him for it.
Sometimes when I read about what others here are going through, I get so angry. I know it has to do with ourselves, too, and what we attract to ourselves, but how can there be so many non-feeling, seemingly insensitive men in this world? It still stuns me to think about it.
I’m glad that you have NML’s book. The book, and the no contact rule, and these daily weekly blogs, and a couple of the other people who don’t post so often anymore were really what helped me get out of a bad relationship for good and just start working on myself. It really does get better after awhile!
@cantbelievemyself – yes, it’s true, at times we all wonder what our AC’s are thinking while we are in NC, but I haven’t seen one person on here who has been happy with any answers they may have received from their exes by reaching out to them. So now you know it hurts to re-contact, and you can stay stronger next time.
@Anusha – personally, I meet a lot of men through my work. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone in my own office, but maybe people I have to interact with in the normal course of work. Also, friends can be a good source of knowing where the decent, available men are. And I agree with Butterfly – night school classes – maybe a fun topic where you have to interact with classmates? A cooking course? photography? Another language? Whatever your interests are.
@Aega – you are so honest about your “buried, lizard-hopesâ€! I appreciate that about you. At least you are taking Butterfly’s cue and coming up with some meaningful interpretations for his MSN sayings. Let him stay at the nickel table and reap what he sows. Keep the hundred dollar prize from him!! Aega, I liked your idea that maybe my ex fears losing his grip on me, thus his need to talk about the beer/sandwich/therapist gig. He did mention being jealous of the time I spent talking with another guy at the conference (the divorced guy who told me he’d had a lot of women asking to be FWB with him, but who is in a new relationship, so not available for me for a partner but I like him as a friend). Your theory helped me to come up with a possible reason why my ex is being annoying in a work-related way: I am trying to collect powerpoint slides (pdf’s anyway) of all the presentations at the conference we just attended to put on a website for the attendees. He is the only one who hasn’t gotten his to me yet. In yesterday’s email, he apologized for this, saying he is “swampedâ€, and that he will do this for me as soon as he gets a chance. It would take all of 5 minutes! I wonder now if he is just making me wait for it so he still has something I need to “remind†him about. If so, what a swine!
@Unhappy soul – wow, yeah, that would be tough to get that 5-minute answer after 2 years of wondering. Like Lisa, I have also experienced something similar (mine said – all I have to offer you is my love) and it hurt like hell because it really meant he didn’t love me enough to do whatever it took to be with me as a life partner. I send you hugs and empathy.
@Meant — “I just got a work-related email from my ex, and at the end of it, he told me he was so busy working today that he forgot to go to his massage appointment, but it’s OK as his therapist usually forgives him if he takes her to the pub across the street for a beer and a sandwich. WTF is that? Trying to make me jealous?”
YES, he’s trying to evoke a response from you in a juvenile way!! Insecure men do this. There was absolutely NO reason he had to share this information with you and I suspect its absolute BS!! He’s trying to get his hooks back into you or gauge your level of investment in him in such a transparent way. Next time no response is the best course of action that way he has no idea of what you’re thinking. As you come out of your anesthesia, you will be able to slowly watch his true colors come to the surface and then you’ll have more of these WOW, WTF moments and truly wonder what you ever saw in him!! When you finally see him off the fantasy pedestal and for who and what he truly is, life will be grand!!
Butterfly- I used to think like that too but after my friend meet her fiance in a club like I said before I changed my mind.I know a lot of guys there arent interested in anything serious but now Im convinced that does go to ALL of them.
SomethingSomethingDarkSide- I mean my country (Im outside USA and Europe).I know that in some countries like USA people go on dates first to get to know each other and the kiss wont happen until the end of the night or sometimes even after a few dates.Here on my country not,like I said is pretty much going straight to the kiss without much talking first (at least in clubs).I would fell more comfortable and like better how it is in USA.
Meant to be Happy- I liked your and Butterfly idea to try meeting nice guys in night courses.I realy like learning new languages so I think that could be a place where I could try it.I prefer meeting them on places like school,work,courses and so on too than in clubs.I mentioned clubs before because there is where I notice most guys aproaching me but I think a lot of them arent interested in a relationship.Plus at work for example there is more chance of talking and geting to know each other before something happens.
Im confused actualy,I know I shouldnt be worried about finding somebody else right now but I fell like a urge for that.But I know that I suposed to be concetrating on having a more positive relationship with me instead and maybe would be better to not look for a relationship until I fix my issues.I have been reading about it and on the book Im reading says that you need to have a strong relationship with yourself first before geting in a relationship,otherwise you can end up pushed to unhealthy relationships again.So Im divided between what I want and what is best for me right now.
@Serena,
yes, thank you, I will add insecure to my list of descriptors of him. He has certainly displayed insecure behaviours in the past. Whenever I have a success at work, he doesn’t congratulate me, ever, but instead he just tells me about something important *he* is working on. Yes, the anesthesia is starting to wear off and he is coming down from that fantasy pedestal slowly but surely…
Meant…and Lisa,
Thank you very much for your support…I dont know, it’s hurts like hell, I feel so worthless and used…it will take time to have my self-esteem back:-( How can we trust again after all these cr@p???
Aega-“There are interesting, nice people all around and how far you take these off the wall conversations is entirely up to you.”
Good point,I might try paying more atention on that and make conversation with people.Who knows even if I dont find a bf like that I can end up making a nice friend.
@Meant
This I’m-too-swamped-to-send-you-the-info bit is kind of pathetic: you have not been reaching out to him on a personal level so he is creating a situation that forces you to through work, even though it in no way speaks to his attractiveness or desirability. It also shows how skewed his idea of interaction is; if I wanted to make a good impression on someone I would make sure to be the first to provide the requested materials and outdo everyone else in being helpful. Serena is right, too, that the therapist story is probably BS. When guys act like this it always takes me back to junior high… Remember how the boys that liked you were sometimes the meanest to you? They didn’t know how else to show interest or were afraid that their friends would tease them if they did. Lucky for us, most of them grew up. Unlucky for us, some of us have spent the last couple of years on those that never did.
Yes, the lizard brain has been missing my sixth-grader today. I woke up in my house this morning after a very realistic and sad dream about him and somehow being surrounded by all the things that had comprised my everyday life when my thoughts were all full of him are making me see him in everything. Fortunately I am still not the least bit tempted to make any kind of contact with him, but the sense of permanence this ending has is killing me. I’ve been remembering the good things, which in turn ratcheted the sadness up even more. I logged in again to keep myself from floating back under Serena’s anesthesia (that term is such a bull’s-eye, isn’t it?) and I have to say it’s working. I was just reading Lisa’s comments to Unhappy and remembered how quickly the response to my final outpouring had come. And I remembered a day a couple of months ago when I was having a mini crisis about being homesick and overwhelmed with my new job, and he was on the phone with me saying all the right things to me until it was dinnertime. I had been crying, which I never do in front of people and in fact he said that he was so happy that I had opened up like this to him for the first time. He was driving home from work at the time, and suddenly he went from encouraging me to vent to telling me how I needed to take a hot bath or take my dog for a walk to feel better. He started talking me through the steps (“you need to hang up the phone, go home, run a bath…â€) the way an EMT would if you were hyperventilating, and I realized that he had got to his house and I was being managed so that he could hang up and go inside. He actually had the nerve to say that I meant more to him that I could ever know and that he wished that he could tell me that he was always going to be there for me, but the reality was that he could not because of the “limitations†of his life. I went from distraught to disgusted in a New York second and got off the phone as soon as I could. You know, I can think of countless times when I put routine (or food) on hold because one of my friends needed to talk. I was always so honored that another person would choose me as a source of comfort. I don’t ever remember wondering whether the soufflé dinner would turn out OK while someone was pouring out their heart to me.
@Anusha – I’m with Meant and Butterfly: meeting a man in a setting where he is looking to learn a new skill or expand his education increases the chances of his being someone of quality. I think that opening yourself up to the idea that there are interesting people all around you on a daily basis works, too. I happen to be one of those people that will talk to anyone just because we both happen be looking at the same painting in a gallery or deciding between yellow and red peppers in the produce section and have made many friends that way over the years, men and women both. Whether or not this comes naturally to you, I’ll bet you would be amazed if you tried it how open people are to social interaction and how easily you fall into fascinating conversations and meet people you can’t wait to learn more about. Case in point: last night there was a gorgeous sunset here, and I sat there in my car gaping at it for a while before pulling up to a Starbucks drive-through. When I handed over my credit card I automatically asked the guy at the window whether he’d caught the sunset. He hadn’t , so of course I proceeded to describe it in Technicolor detail for him. Fast forward 10 minutes (there was no one in line behind me) and we knew each other’s political leanings, I had the addresses of the two newest vegetarian restaurants in the city, discovered that neither of us had any siblings and suffered from motion sickness as kids, and that both our parents had disapproved of our college majors. Now, I don’t have a thing for guys 15 years younger than me nor room for romantic interest anywhere in my life right now so that was it – but it didn’t have to be. There are interesting, nice people all around and how far you take these off the wall conversations is entirely up to you.
.-= Aega´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
I have now finally heard the song by Daughtry that Meant mentioned and it made me cry. It’s different though – it wasn’t about him, it was about my wasted time.
Not for long though, and it was a few tears, not a patch on how I used to feel, how I used to cry, how I’d hide in the shower with my face against the tiles and just sob out raw grief and confusion asking that question “Why?”.
Knowing why helps, Unhappy Soul (I look forward to seeing your name changing as your soul recovers) and cantbelieve (hey me neither, and I look forward to your name changing too! I am quite sure right now neither of you think it will ever feel different but it will and when it does the burden or raw emotion which is guiding you right now will feel wrong and you’ll most likely call yourself something new). Knowing why is a start point, No Contact is the logical step and the practical tool and then the rest of it is really just enjoying life without needing others to approve you:you approve yourself.
Oh I know that sounds glib, it isn’t meant to sound it, just it’s very hard to put myself back in that headspace fully now. I remember it very clearly but thankfully most of the time I am incapable of reliving it vividly.
We have ALL been here. All of us. You won’t be judged, so don’t beat yourself up ladies. You just are loving the wrong person.
Try to see an opportunity. You have been given a gift, even if it doesn’t look or feel like it. : )
@Aega OK tough love time, if he is trying to contact you every day, and given how your story has evolved, you actually should delete him from MSN because you are getting ego strokes and you are not in any way in No Contact. Sorry but you aren’t – now this is your life and your choice but I went through this exact thing with the mirage and you know what? For him, I was also a mirage – the difference is that for him I was a construct of physical perfection who was there purely to make him look and feel good, my mirage was that he actually DID give a shit and meant what he said.
It’s cruel to keep him on MSN – both to yourself and also to him because somewhere along the line the energies manifesting from your enjoyment of him contacting you will bite you/him/your husband in the arse. It’s easy for us to demonise the men in this totally in our quest to support each other, and we certainly should get all upset about their feelings if they have treated us so shabbily if we have given nothing but love, but when it is over it is OVER. I’ve never gone with “It doesn’t matter” because it didn’t resonate quite the right way for me but I sure as hell have had “It’s OVER” as a mantra.
Why? Cos it will only be over if we say it is over. Not them – they never can and never will, their stock in trade is “maybe”, “soon” and “I’m not good enough” and “I can’t be what you need”.
Delete him. Whether you get back on track with your husband or not, you need this drug out of your system. Everything else is a plastering the surface of a wall that’s broken, it looks nice but underneath the structure is still an accident waiting to happen.
OK lecture over 🙂 I can see your joy in life starting to return, the exploration etc. You need something to nurture in your life which is not another person maybe 🙂
I’ve got some fun things happening soon, many landmarks, I should have gone back to Chicago last week, the planned trip to Vegas (yep you’d read into that correctly why a non gambler might go to Vegas) was also originally floated for September. The birthday. This wedding I am going to will need just a single room instead of a double … loads … our anniversary is starting to loom too and that one I know I will struggle with for other reasons. You know what tho? I dunno how I’d have ever coped with any of this without you all so I am not worrying too much.
x
@Aega – I agree with your assessment of my ex being tardy with his presentation info – his *IS* pathetic. I also agree with Butterfly that you are not NC if you get messages from your ex daily. I don’t know how to do that auto-delete thing either with the email, but instead I have told my ex that I would not be in contact with him except for work-related purposes, and I specifically asked him not to contact me in my “final†email. Can you delete his messages unread? And then focus not on the happy times, but on all the times your exMM let you down or managed down your expectations (e.g., that EMT-like phone call)
@Butterfly – yes, Daughtry’s music has helped me to get over my EUM, but I’m sorry he made you cry. Did you listen to “Over You†or “No Surpriseâ€? They are both meaningful to me. I’m glad he just evoked a few tears, and no sobbing – testament to your healing progress. I agree it would be nice to see a name change for Unhappy soul and cantbelieve, but only when the time feels right for them. For me, I think it was 2 weeks NC when I went from notmeanttobe to Meant to be Happy, and you’re right, the old name didn’t seem to fit as I started recovery.I like the advice you gave that they won’t be judged no matter how many times they break NC or seems to take “a step backâ€. It’s what I LOVE about this site!!!
Butterfly wrote this and it is so true,
“For him, I was also a mirage – the difference is that for him I was a construct of physical perfection who was there purely to make him look and feel good, my mirage was that he actually DID give a shit and meant what he said.”
ayup, exactly my experience. The fantasy goes both ways though the details are so very different for each. This also describes exactly why I felt objectified, maybe like the trophy wife concept.
I now also see that we isolate because any of our reasonable and wise friends, f they knew the details of the relationship, would ask us WTH we were doing with that person.
If you think about it, NC is the right thing to do for both parties, cause living life in a fantasy is no way to live. We have to be the stronger and wiser ones and get to work on NC and all the issues that come up with it.
thank you so much for reading and responding to my comment. it is empowering to be part of this community by posting for the first time and being heard. you all rock!!!
even with break-ups with non-ass clowns (yeah, I actually managed to date a few) I usually have to bang my head up against the wall a few times (i.e. hearing the message that its over, going nowhere, he doesn’t feel the same, blah blah blah) before it sinks in. This time, hopefully, it was only the once.
Hang in there everyone, and don’t settle for less than your amazing selves deserve.
I broke NC with ex-EUM again. What I found out, is that his ex-wife is living with him! He told me some story about why and who knows if it is true or false. Something about the ex-wife picked up a woman at the airport who she didn’t know and brought this woman back to the ex-wife’s home to spend the night because the hotel room that the strange woman was staying at, was a flea bag. When the ex-wife was taking the strange woman back to the airport, the ex-wife’s home was broken into and everything was stolen. The strange woman slept in the ex-wife’s daughter’s bed (the child was with her dad) and left the child a note to thank her. The daughter was afraid to sleep in her bed. That was the strangest piece of Sh*t that I ever heard. Supposedly, this was the first time that the ex-wife did this type of thing. I told him not to call me anymore. But guess what he has at least 3 times.
While with this ex-eum, I isolated myself and really made him the be all and do all. I talked with him about any and every issue that I had rather than dole out things on a need to know basis. I told him everything while he told me some things, I am quite sure. When I ended the relationship, his friends, family was still in tack while I had to rebuild and I am still doing that. He is with someone else who he talked about badly and I am alone. At times I am in pain and others I am fine.
I need your thoughts and support.
Thanks.
@Meant, Butterfly, and Anusha
You are all so very very right and I am such a chickenshit. Butterfly, the ego stroking part is hard to own up to (after all this is one of the traits most of our guys have displayed and hurt us with), but yes, you are right. After I read your post I took the time to analyze what I really feel when I see him online. Oddly enough, I’m not curious as to why he’s there, it is more of a he-made-his-bed-now-he-can-sleep-in-it kind of satisfaction. It’s really an ugly feeling, especially since I’ve always felt that love should never spawn any sort of negative emotions, such as experiencing or invoking jealousy, “testing†the other person’s commitment, etc. And here I am, glad that he has been spending his weekends online and I haven’t blinked on the available status even once in 4 weeks. I can’t help wondering how it feels for him to know that I’m here in town and that instead of hiking or traipsing through the desert with me marveling at the sheer beauty of this place he has sat in his study with his laptop on, probably watching television as two gorgeous, balmy days just went by.
It’s none of my business. I’m sitting here thinking, how can anyone who loves the outdoors stay married for 10 years to a woman that doesn’t own a pair of hiking boots? I know it doesn’t matter. But the why’s are crowding my brain. Butterfly, I know that “raw grief and confusion†with my own face against the tile in the shower, crying so hard and feeling so broken inside. I did it this morning, up at 3 am with jetlag and searching the entire two years’ worth of memories for an explanation. I have such a strong need to understand. NML and all of us have said over and over again that it doesn’t matter, that there are no answers to be had and one needs to just let go. But I can’t. I just can’t. I want to know how it feels to have me completely gone from his life after he had professed for 2 years that he couldn’t imagine a life without me.
This morning I put together pro and con columns, one for myself and one for his wife. I mean, if I supposedly had all these attributes, why did I get tossed like this? We had this unbelievable physical attraction. You know what? I may be coming up on 40 but I’m pretty damn hot still. Hell, I made money modeling well into my 30’s. It’s not nice to compare like this to another woman, I know, but I had never before paid much attention to clothes and makeup and such because I was painfully shy for the first 30 years of my life and didn’t really come into my own till the last 5 or so. His wife had been in a sorority (I was cleaning test tubes for minimum wage at the time). I’m funny, too, you know? Granted, heavily on the goofy side, but I’ve always made friends and kept my life full because my hobbies range from welding to literature and I’m never hesitant to try something new.
I guess the pathetic point I’m trying to make here that there’s more to me than a booty call, fantastic as those may have been. I had never ever in my entire life offered up my love to anyone the way I did to him last week. Oh hell. F*k this MSN connection and my comic book character role in his life. I started this rant feeling completely incapable of cutting that bond, but I’m doing it. I don’t want to know whether he is online, looking to talk to me, or at home being domestic. It doesn’t matter. I was not enough. My personality, looks, smarts, and love for him didn’t measure up to the comfort of his home life. He may have told the truth about his wife having no interest in a physical relationship with him (or him with her), or that she neither worked nor contributed to anything domestic, but whatever reason that is what he wants.
I’m bitter and angry and so horribly sad and I don’t need this s*t in my life. This is not who I am. I don’t like the person I became in the course of this relationship and I want my life back. I used to get really irritated with petty people, and now look at me. Butterfly, it is just a broken wall with plaster over it, isn’t it? It’s better to pull it off and see the cracks than throw more gob at it and hide damage. It’s over, it’s over, and I’m just going to keep repeating it till it sinks in.
.-= Aega´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
*just a note to everyone*
I’m still here! I just felt I hadn’t anything relevant or helpful to say on this matter. But I’m lapping up every word… and learning lots.
love, Leonine
Aega: “I know it doesn’t matter. But the why’s are crowding my brain.” Even though my mantra has been, “It doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter,” . . . the reason I keep saying it is to try and retrain my brain to accept that.
Because, I too have the “whys” crowding my brain. That is what is so damned perplexing about getting this relationship out of my heart and out of my head.
I keep searching for some sort of sense. Something to say, “Yeah, that’s it. Now, I know and I can deal with it and move on.”
That’s why I keep complete N/C and why I keep coming back to this site and reading and re-reading – so that I can tap into whatever it is that has me stuck.
Rumination definitely keeps me stuck, but if I don’t keep reading posts and others’ stories, then I feel isolated. As I said in an earlier post, “fear” is not what is holding me back. I want to face every unknown so that that “variable” can then be eliminated.
The EUM, or rather, my EUM got a hold of my psyche in a way that no one else ever even tapped. God! The woman that I was replaced with . . . not attractive, definitely not smart, and definitely not a woman who is kind, loving, and caring. I think, that with the EUM – that’s the thing: they cannot make a commitment to someone who really is available for love.
However, there is the conundrum of many of the stories here, particularly for the MM and MW who find themselves in an ongoing EMR…What is it that caused us to go there? And, are we married to men who are a different kind of EMR?
Again, for me, I want the answers, and I am not afraid to ask the questions. I keep hoping that my brain will get retrained. I do believe, however, that I read some literature, based on studies, that there are a number of women who never do recover from these types of relationships. Ughhhhh.
Just to add: This isn’t about blaming him or others for my dilemma. This is really about me desperately seeking an answer that makes some kind of sense. We do as they say, “… make our own beds.”
Aega-“I was not enough. My personality, looks, smarts, and love for him didn’t measure up to the comfort of his home life.”
Yes you do have a lot of good traits and the reason he didnt left his wife to be with you doesnt mean that she is better than you.Like NML said on her post about felling rejected by the EUM,is having to fully comit to a relationship and to be emotionaly avaliable that they reject not you.I dont know his wife but I can bet that she probably acept his crapy behaviour and doesnt demand for more and that probably the reason he is with her.It has nothing to do with she being better than you.But you know that isnt enough for you,you want more.You want healthier relationships and that man cant give you that.
And I still think you should delete him(if you havent yet),it realy does you no good to keep wondering what he is doing.Again it just doesnt matter.I know is hard to just let go and stop looking for answers,trust me I drive myself crazy wondering about things yet but there is no point.We wont come up with any answers and it will just waist our energy and bring negative emotions.He cant give you the relationship you want and that is that is all that matters.All the whys,how,if,should wont make any diference.I fell very rejected for my ex,like I said before he used to act like if he didnt care much about me during our relationship and after the break up even(he not even once asked me how I was or showed any interest to keep contact with me after we broke up).And he used to say he loved me,that he broke up with me because he didnt think we could work together but that he still loved me.But realy he havent acted as somebody who love much.And yes it hurts and I keep thinking sometimes why he didnt love me or why he didnt care for me,but it just doesnt matter anymore.I wont find the answer anyway and will just do me more bad to hang on to that.For our own good we just have to let it go.That is what Im trying to do now and I hope you can do it too.
@Aega – yeah it is. Sad but true = the only person who can fix it is you.
I had an offline message from a (male) friend who had been reading the site, saying that a lot of us here are a bunch of men haters and we’re clinging onto something, have we not looked at our own behaviour. I can’t say I agree with the man hating thing and I’ve said as much but there is truth to that about behaviour and clinging, even if it is at a rudamentary level. Please understand that guys probably CAN’T understand – this is a guy I’d never date in a million years even if it were on the cards and I’ve said as much to him – but there’s something in there about look at your own behaviours.
I’ve been weeping in bed for about 15 minutes, having slept the day away (clearly I needed it, they’ve been digging up the road overnight all week!). About him? No. Meant, when I was crying this morning listening to a song it was not about him. It’s about me – more accurately it’s about Progesterone and now I am taking up the mantra “It doesn’t matter” cos it DOESN’T matter, just means a trip to stock up on sanitary products.
love to you all
@Isabella – wow, another example of getting hurt when re-contacting an EUM. Sorry you had to endure that. The ex-wife story sounds very complex! You have decided to be done with him, and you probably know from this site that going NC (blocking his calls) and working on yourself is the only way to heal. I wish you luck with doing what you need to do to recover from this.
@Aega – it sounds like you’re getting closer to deleting your ex from MSN – that’s great!! You wrote “ (I have been) searching the entire two years’ worth of memories for an explanation. I have such a strong need to understand. NML and all of us have said over and over again that it doesn’t matter, that there are no answers to be had and one needs to just let go. But I can’t. I just can’t. I want to know how it feels to have me completely gone from his life after he had professed for 2 years that he couldn’t imagine a life without me.†– this is my reality, too, but I am slowly accepting that all that matters is what aphrogirl mentioned – he has given me the best he can, and it’s not enough. These are MM we are dealing with! Their commitment is to their wives, not to us, no matter how much they say they love us.
You said “I guess the pathetic point I’m trying to make here that there’s more to me than a booty call, fantastic as those may have been.†– YES, that’s exactly how I have felt too – but as NML points out, we shouldn’t have to convince someone of our worth! NML also said on one of the “compatibility†posts (I think) that we may believe we have all these awesome qualities – good looks, educated, funny, good social skills, many interests and hobbies, etc, etc. But really, all these things are just superficial when it comes to relationships. That was really an “aha†for me. So what if I’m better looking, better educated, have better social skills than the exMM AND his wife (from what he tells me of her). None of that matters. The qualities of good partners are those Brad talks about – discipline, honour, honesty, integrity, etc. When I look for those qualities in myself, especially when I think of my interactions with someone else’s partner, I see I am not that great a catch any more. I have not had the self-discipline to steer clear of someone else’s husband. I have not honoured a couple’s wedding vows. I have not been honest in my meetings with my exMM, as I never told *anyone* my true whereabouts when I met up with my exMM in motels. I am not living a life of integrity as no one in my life knows about my relationship with him – I have had to keep him compartmentalized and secret. I have to work on being a person of honour and integrity. So really, I don’t think I can compare myself to his wife, as I don’t know how she “rates†in these more important (to a relationship) qualities. He also tells me she refuses to sleep with him, but does that make her a terrible person with character flaws? Probably not. Anusha is right – the wives probably put up with a lot of crap, and they deserve a satisfactory relationship with these guys more than we do. I am returning my ex to his rightful “ownerâ€, and hope that they are able to work things out. I am going to join in your chant – “It’s over, it’s over, it’s over.â€
@Leonine – it’s good to hear from you. I look forward to the next time you make a post – you always have a great perspective on all this relationship stuff.
@Angelina – “I keep searching for some sort of sense. Something to say, “Yeah, that’s it. Now, I know and I can deal with it and move on.†– yes, that would be wonderful!!! “my EUM got a hold of my psyche in a way that no one else ever even tapped.†– me too, and my emotional reaction to him took me completely off guard (that’s a line from a song I think – by ?Heart? Nothing at All?) Anyway, yes, the connection was like none other in my 40 plus years on this earth. And that’s why I think that fear NML mentioned of never meeting anyone who brings out these intense emotions in me has some truth for me. What caused us to go here? Unmet needs, I’d say. And a promise of having them filled that turned out to be a “mirage†to quote Butterfly. We need to have these needs met within ourselves, or from healthier people. Who did the studies on the women who never recover? We don’t have to be “one†of them!
@Butterfly – yes, I realized you weren’t crying for your ex, but for your wasted time – the “he†I was talking about was Chris Daughtry, lol, and I’m still curious which song it was 🙂 How does your friend figure we’re men-haters when we are trying to figure out how to have a satisfying relationship with a man??? And you are due for another cycle to begin? Wow, can’t believe a month has gone by since our last “PMT†discussion, lol!!! I hope you feel better soon. I find chocolate helps…
It might not be a month … my cycle is, uh. complex.
That sounds like a pain!!! I thought we were kinda around the same time, but I’m not due for another 10 days or so 😛
Which song was it? lol
“No Surprise??”
@ Meant to be Happy: so right, so right. I was doing pretty good with NC and went about 8 months and then broke it when I talked with ex-EUM at month 9. I got depressed and hurt all over again because I went back to expecting things to be different then I found out about his ex-wife. Did I ever learn my lesson. I also finally got it, that the EUM/Assclown lie, lie, lie from the smallest to the largest things. NC right now.
@Butterfly’s Male Wrong-Conclusion-Drawing Friend
This site has attracted almost exclusively the exact opposite of a man hater. Nearly everyone here has ended or is ending a relationship she had been committed to far more than her partner, and yet all of us are soul searching and sounding out possible reasons that had led to the demise of that relationship. I imagine a man-hater would hardly look to share the blame. Of course, sometimes we get angry; wouldn’t anyone? I don’t believe, however, that there has been a single instance here of attributing a former partner’s hurtful behavior to his being male. We all recognize the men in our lives as people, not just members of a gender.
OK, a little defensive here, sorry… But I can’t be lumped in with man haters a month before my deep sea fishing trip with “the guysâ€â€¦ It’s bad enough I’m a vegetarian… 🙂
@Angelina
You asked,†What is it that caused us to go there? And, are we married to men who are a different kind of EMR?†In my relationship, he had tapped into my psyche so much that we were finishing each other’s sentences long before the friendship moved to the physical stage. That is what caused me to go there. The physical attraction, for me, came after that “meeting of the mindsâ€. It was almost as though I had come to love what was inside him so much that his appearance became just a window to the rest of him. I loved his face because I knew all of its nuances and what emotions they corresponded to.
He used to say that his favorite part of me was the unguarded one that only surfaced when we were alone. Shortly after we fell into the affair, he asked me to bring pictures of me as a kid, and he brought his as well. I can’t really explain how or why these vulnerable parts were so important to us in each other, only maybe that we had both had pretty rotten childhoods and being able to invoke old fears and insecurities for the first time before someone that understood and didn’t judge was so incredibly liberating. It seemed to make up for a lot we had missed over the years. We told each other things that we had never even said out loud to ourselves before.
I know that I went there because it felt like coming home. Maybe none of it was real; I guess I’ll never know now. Maybe, like you said, he could not “make a commitment to someone who really is available for love.†Maybe he didn’t think I was.
@Anusha and Meant
I read somewhere once that no one can ever understands the dynamics of a marriage unless he or she is in it. Of all people, when I first started working with my MM, my husband disparaged his wife a couple of times. One has to appreciate the irony that I rather heatedly defended her at the time, accusing him of being superficial about women’s looks and blaming his dislike of what he called “her bossiness†on the fact that he is very forceful himself and always needs to get his way. I told him that none of that mattered because whatever it was they had was working for them and they were happy. Here is for the heaviest of irony: my husband said that he (the MM) got trapped into a situation where he was being used as a meal ticket and that if I thought this was happy then I was seriously lacking in judgment.
His wife may very well be a better person that I am. I don’t know. What I struggle with is that what we had seemed so visceral; over the years we saw each other at our worst and motivated one another to do what mattered to us. I have no doubt that she has discipline whereas I don’t. I’ve had fear keep me in inertia more times that I can count. Honor and integrity? Probably that, too. But I remember when he was so stressed by work that he ended up with ulcers and two thirds of his normal weight, and another opportunity came up that was more or less his dream job, but he was pressured into staying where he was because his wife didn’t want to move away from their in-laws. She said that she would then have to have the kids with her almost every day and that was inconvenient.
I know I know it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t give me the right to break up a marriage. I don’t want to come across, however, as thinking myself better than his wife. Or deserving him more because of superficial things like looks, brains, or whatever. I don’t feel a sense of entitlement. On the contrary, I loved and wanted him because I *needed* him and thought that he needed me in ways we didn’t experience with the people we had married. What had brought us together where the not-so-stellar qualities – deficiencies, really – that we shared. Or thought we did.
I suppose the worst aspect of this whole aftermath is the quicksand of second guessing. Was any of it real? If not, then I haven’t lost much in the process. But if it was, then the odds of this degree of connection happening again are slim.
@Butterfly, a.k.a. ye who hast the answers… If I just wrote a self-serving, woe-is-me novel here because of hormones… Well, you may just be right again. A thousand curses (and a bottle of Midol….) 🙂
I forgot this one tidbit – my whiny self-pity notwithstanding, I did do the delete deed.
Getting familiar with yourself again after the EUM
Hi ladies, I have been reading all the stories and thinking to myself how is everyone doing int terms of getting bak in touch with yourselves after the EUM/AC’s. For me it has been 7 years and I’m in the process of trying to get to know me again… it’s a strange place to be in. Classes/traveling/swimming? What is everyone else doing?
@Aega – yay! glad you deleted the ex, a small step in the right direction
Aega – yay! glad you deleted the ex, a small step in the right direction
@Aega – good – it’s for the best.
Do I have the answers? Hell no. If I did I’d not be sitting here crying about the good times with my ex but one, who is on my mind a lot these last few days. He’s a Narc tho … him saying we were soulmates 10 years ago, then when I came back home after my mirage visit saying “I always thought I was your soulmate but looks like I am wrong”. Neither of them were … I’m so afraid right now that I will be alone forever, how the hell can I trust anything nice a man says to me ever again?
This is where the real work starts I spose, the forgetting these idiots is like jettisoning the booster jets on a rocket.
It’s hormonal. As I said above, my cycle is very complex due to medical issues so I don’t have the certainty and familiar/predictable times most women do.
Aega-Good for you that you deleted him,you will see how that will make you fell less atached to him 🙂
I know I wrote yesterday that realy doesnt matter but I have been thinking about all the reasons.I just cant understand my ex,I tried for years but I cant.I cant understand how he can say he loves me and act how he does.How he can love me but show no interest to know how Im or what is going on my life? How he can not fell any desire to be around me? I just realy dont get that.Is the oposite of the way that a person that loves should behave to me.I just cant get it for more I try,he says is love but to me just doesnt look like it.
All: Something that “struck” me, as I am working through this situation . . .
Even knowing that the relationship is over, that I have to protect me with complete N/C, and that he is who he is (as in, treated me in a manner that was less than respectful, and doesn’t really “get” that, so he will never change) . . .
How does one truly move on, when one knows that she still cares for this person?
@cece
Thank you. I do owe having been able to do it to all of you here – my fear of the feeling of loss deepening once I severed that tie would have kept me in limbo for a long time. But I know that I can come here blubbering or in self-righteous indignation and everyone understands why it’s such a big deal, and knowing this puts training wheels on my NC bicycle.
7 years with your EUM or 7 years since? (isn’t it amazing what a chunk of one’s life one person can claim?) You are right that it is a strange place to be because to a certain degree we had become an extension of these men, and vice versa, much more so than in a healthier relationship. One day I tried to approximate how much time I had been spending just talking/emailing with my MM and it was something like 4 hours, more on the weekends. Considering that I have two demanding careers and spend a good ten hours a week running, the time with him had been all the free time I had. Friends had gone by the wayside; time spent talking to my parents had been marginalized; I had stopped any leisure reading. The most astounding aspect of it all is that I had not *missed* the absence of these interactions. No one had ever monopolized my time and attention to this degree before, not even when I was first married and crazy in love. In fact, after I had met my husband, my circle of friends and family grew as we combined both our lives and incorporated each other into our preexisting social networks.
In the 4 weeks of my near-NC (still seeing what he was saying to me but not talking to him), not even as a conscious effort, I started to make myself available to other people again. I always meet a lot of people via the gallery circuit and in dog parks. When I was in constant contact with the MM, I would shirk the obligations that usually follow making an acquaintance – exchanging phone numbers, attending events, etc. I didn’t even think about this till you brought up the question, but just recently I have joined a running group, started calling my parents again at least once a week, finally finished “Middlemarchâ€, and took my colleagues up on being the token female on a fishing trip. And – most of all – I have spent hours here, on this website, reading the perspectives and experiences of some kick-ass women, whose support and insight have left me in grateful wonder of their extraordinary hearts and minds.
@Anusha
I know that makes no sense. It defies basic logic. Whenever the same question hits me I remind myself of Butterfly’s concept of the mirage: his love is confined to his fantasy of you. Within the parameters of that fantasy his emotions feel very real to him, but they cannot and do not make the transition into the real world. Think back to being a teenager: did you ever have a crush on an actor after seeing him in a movie whose plot had really resonated with you? Although you were physically attracted to the person that played the role, the crush didn’t begin until you got to “know†the character that person portrayed in the film, right? And when you later spun fantasies of being with that man, you were visualizing a relationship based on the traits which the *character* had displayed, and not the real-life member of the Actors’ Guild who stood 5’6†or so without the inserts and had a little coke habit that occasionally got him arrested (Jan-Michael Vincent, anyone? ïŠ )
You embody his “perfect womanâ€. He probably has more pictures of you on his hard drive than you do of him. I can guarantee you that *his* you has never had a pimple or a tampon failure. “His you†never gets a snotty nose, never sees his “adorable foibles†for the major character flaws they are, and would never send him to the store for “sanitary suppliesâ€. He doesn’t need to ask after how or what you are doing, because he already knows – you are busy being a goddess. He has a very clear mental picture of your sylphine physique reclining on a chaise-lounge in your seductive boudoir, spending your time oozing delphic allure. Or some such.
Case in point: the flesh-and-blood me sitting on my yoga mat; the phone rings, it’s *him*. A quick how-are-you and what-are-you-up-to and he instantly zeroes in on the yoga part. An impromptu fantasy ensues. The flesh-and-blood me, entranced by the sound of his voice, follows the unfolding story with bated breath. At some point the fantasy me in his story puts both legs over my head. I laugh a little and say that I may be limber but I can’t do that. “That’s OKâ€, he says, lost in reverie. “In my mind you canâ€. On my end of the phone line something dies a little; the flesh and blood me will not be required to live out this particular scenario. He is not day-dreaming about me while I’m gone because he misses me. The illusion he has created is not a temporary substitute for the flesh-and-blood me; it exists in and of itself. I just happen to be playing the starring role.
@Butterfly – you don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of staying alone. Sorry, chica, but you’ve got too much substance, spark, and acuity for the opposite gender to pass you by. Think – this site is pretty unique; if you were to surf around looking for a community that resembles this one, you’d be hard pressed to find one (I know, because it took me a long time to come across this one). The logical conclusion here is that the EUM experience is hardly common, at least for women with the kind of power of introspective reasoning you possess. Men as a species are one of this planet’s most fantastic inventions; they care, they do, they protect, and they love without reservations or old grudges. (They open peanut butter jars, too…) You are in grief right now, still smarting from your experience, and looking at the world through the filter of recent disappointment (not to mention raging hormones right now). I don’t remember much from Catholic school except this: “This too shall passâ€. You were the one who has told me more than once now that your resilience is a matter of being further down the recovery path than I am. I’ve read what you said more than once and it has got me through some pretty hopeless feeling days. And … You. Were. Right. We love, we hurt, despair, and at some point we begin trucking on again. The world is chockfull of great guys, and when the anesthesia wears off (I love that term Serena coined) you will start noticing them and letting them inside you pale.
I’m on vacation. Apparently time on my hands = verbal diarrhea …
I think we move on by realizing and accepting it all. The sadness, the pain, the anger. Accepting that we had an amazing connection with the person ( most likely because of some issues we both need to work on) That the connection presented an incredible opportunity to work with a person we loved and wanted to mutually work through all our stuffs with. That the person did not want to run with the incredible opportunity presented..or, in the case of an AC….they did, they did not, they did, they did not..But, in the end, the fact is, they did not want to run with the incredible opportunity presented.
We move on by realizing the truth, that this is the way it is and there is nothing we can do to make the other take advantage of the opportunity. We move on by realizing that we have been given a new opportunity to deal with the issues that the strong connection and desires with the EUM brought up.
Moving on means going forward, not staying stuck. Forward had no speed requirements, in my case it is slow, and though it is frustrating sometimes, I think that slow is OK, as long as we go forward. We are talking bout broken hearts after all, and they do not get that way, nor repair all that quickly. Staying NC, if it’s all you can manage, is still moving forward.
@aphrogirl
“in the case of an AC….they did, they did not, they did, they did not…”
As much as that see-saw hurt – and still does – I’m sitting here cracking up. 🙂 This is soooo on the money!
I wanna say one more thing before i get to work…all my writing does sound so soulfully sad when I reread what I write, and it is completely heartfelt and sincere but…do not picture me as a sad lonely person at her keyboard cause….I do laugh, a lot.
Once a few years back, I had said to the AC, when I was really angry about a very flaky EUM thing he did. that I was angry, that I would be feeling hurt about it next, but eventually I would be able to laugh about it. Meaning laugh about the absurdity of his flaky AC antics.
I did not know then that to be able to laugh I’d also have to be in NC. Areseclown is such a perfect word to describe him.
Aega-“I know that makes no sense. It defies basic logic. Whenever the same question hits me I remind myself of Butterfly’s concept of the mirage: his love is confined to his fantasy of you.”
Indeed it makes no sense at all and I spent years trying to come up with some sense from that.I think maybe he loves me on his own way but that way is so strange to me.Having a relationship isnt just be there(sometimes) and say I love you from time to time,there are things you suposed to do and those things were missing in my relationship with him.Sometimes I think he confused a sexual atraction for love.He likes how I look,he is sexualy atracted to me and thought that was love maybe.Like I said here once,when I asked him after we broke up if he was over me yet he said “No if I was over you I wouldnt be joking(meaning the sexual jokes texts that he used to send me) with you like that”.I realy couldnt see the relation of that and he loving me.I mean I can fell sexualy atracted to a hot actor for example but that doesnt necessaraly means I love him.Being sexualy atracted doesnt mean you love somebody to me,so why he based his answer on that I realy dont get it.And the basic of love like wanting to be around the person as much as possible never was there,he was fine with short contact.I just cant get it,for more I have tried.
Or I think maybe he just doesnt know how to conect with people.He interacts with them(go out,spend time with them) yes but doesnt conect.Like for example his best friend would complain that he almost never iniciated contact and that once when he was going trough some problems,my ex never showed up or gave him a call.Or with his family too,like once when his sisters had moved out for about 6 months already and he havent been there to get to know the house not even once.Or when his mother had got a caravan for over a year and all his family had been there on weekends and he never had been there.Sometimes I just think that he just doesnt know how to have a fully commited relationship with people.Like I said before he just doesnt conect but I guess that is exactaly why he is a EUM.
@Anusha
Babe. One step forward, two steps back. I am saying this to you for you, k? Ready?
Shut up about him!
This is what you need to say to yourself. Shut up about him. It doesn’t matter one little bit where where how he is like he is: he is not or should not be part of your consideration any more. You can’t fix him and … ok finally I give in and adopt it: IT DOESN’T MATTER.
Are there clouds in the sky today? Did you remember to take vitamins or whatever? Have you eat your 5 (or better yet 7, and no I haven’t either) portions of fruit and veg today, drunk enough water? These things matter. What and why he is what he is … so what? Seriously, if you applied the energy to yourself that you still so willingly throw his way you could probably move mountains.
@Aega – thank you. I know 🙂 I was just underlining the point that I am no oracle and I am as fallable as the next woman.
@Aega – “no one can ever understands the dynamics of a marriage unless he or she is in it.†– true enough.
“What I struggle with is that what we had seemed so visceral†– visceral to me connotes unconscious, or maybe subconscious thoughts and feelings. That lizard part of your brain again. Do you give that more weight than the conscious choice you made to marry your husband because he seemed to fit well with your values, shared your dreams, and loves you enough to make a commitment to be with you? I do think I know what you mean about the EUM/MM connection, though, as I mentioned to Angelina re: my emotional reaction to my ex (above). But consciously, I know a relationship with him is not healthy, and wouldn’t be so even if he left his wife and came running into my arms.
“I loved and wanted him because I *needed* him and thought that he needed me in ways we didn’t experience with the people we had married. What had brought us together where the not-so-stellar qualities – deficiencies, really – that we shared†– sorry, I just don’t understand this part. Because you felt you needed each other, you therefore loved him? I’m not trying to be difficult, I just don’t get why you felt that deep connection to someone with “shared deficiencies†– did it help you to feel better about yourself?
I agree with cece, Butterfly and Anusha – that’s so fantastic that you deleted your ex from MSN. I remember how difficult that was for me, too, but also realized later it was a sort of “NC milestoneâ€. So you don’t have to see him online anymore – fantastic! And you said you are “home†for a few days – I can’t help but wonder – are you in the home you share with your husband? If so, is that helping to gain any clarity for you?
@cece – I am getting back in touch with myself through reconnecting with friends and family, and by starting therapy. Also spending a lot of time thinking and reflecting on my life.
@Butterfly – I agree with Aega – “you’ve got too much substance, spark, and acuity for the opposite gender to pass you by.†– I am also a member of your fan club, and can’t imagine you not being able to find someone you are happy with 🙂 Just a matter of time, I’m sure.
@Anusha – I know it must have been hard to read what Butterfly posted to you, but I must say I agree with her, and I think it comes from a place of concern for you, and of understanding, so I hope you were able to see it that way.
@aphrogirl – “they did, they did not, they did, they did not..†– lololol!!! “Moving on means going forward, not staying stuck†– yes, yes, yes!
Brad just wrote this on another post, and I think it’s good food for thought: “any time you have a destination, you have enough work to do to fill up any life time. Instead of thinking of time you used to spend elsewhere, consider what you need to accomplish today, this year, and in the next ten years.†Let’s all imagine how and where we want to be in the future – our destination. Let’s think of what that destination looks like. Let’s take steps to reaching that destination!
Butterfly and Meant to be Happy-I understand that Butterfly was just trying to put me back on track and didnt got ofended by what she said 🙂 I myself said to the women here to stop worring about him and concetrate on you many times,I guess I should be following my own advice.I guess like most of us here I just was trying to find the answers that I never got.But you all are right it just doesnt matter.
Thank you to all who posted comments and for your support…
I like the idea that you allow yourself 15 minutes a day to process things then you get on with life..
I always wake up thinking about him and how I feel and ask myself the question will today be the day he contacts me.. answer NO then will you break contact answer NO.. why because in the past I have always ran behind him going hey here I am remember me remember what you said??? I already have my answer as to what type of person he is and though it will be hard not to wish him Happy B’day I am determined not too.. thanks for the encouragement not to..
I don’t kid myself that I’m on his mind and because of that I don’t think he belongs on my mind..
Isabella I hope youa re doing okay and are back in no contact and ignoring someone who clearly shows you no respect.. I know easier said than done .. but continued good luck
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