Have you ever found yourself blindsided by the confusion of not knowing what the hell you should think about how badly you’ve been treated by a guy?
Well I can bet if you have been involved with a Mr Unavailable or assclown that you’ve felt this way.
Have you found yourself looking back of your relationship and feeling more than a bit galled and bewildered by the type of relationship and behaviour that you have accepted?
I’ll bet you have!
I was speaking with a reader earlier who has been through exactly this – you know it doesn’t feel good. You know what you like and what you don’t like. You know there is something more than a little jacked up about what you have experienced and yet…
The self-doubt comes in.
It’s the rationalising, the ignoring, the denying, the ability to see gold where there is rusty copper, the confusion, the listening to the words rather than looking at the actions.
More importantly, you no longer know what is ‘normal’ anymore.
Your normal is what you used to think is screwed up.
You have become very good at normalising bad behaviour.
If you imagine your ‘relationship’ with Mr Unavailables and assclowns like this:
Imagine that your capacity to love is at, let’s say 70%. Depending on what flavour of guy you’re messing with out of these two, let’s say his capacity is 20%.
These guys don’t see themselves in the reality because they are distanced from their emotions and distanced from their behaviour – hence why their words rarely match their actions.
Their oversized ego’s, which compensate for the little boy within, have them rationalising their behaviour to themselves and deciding that they’re Mr Wonderfuls.
You know the “It’s not like I cheat/beat/steal/do x,y,z like ‘other’ guys” kind of rubbish… Or “I wouldn’t be this way if you weren’t so needy/thinner/gave me more BJ’s/let me sleep around…” crap…
As a result, they don’t see their 20% as 20%; they see it as 100%.
This is why they big up themselves and think their crumbs should be more than enough to sustain you.
They throw you a crumb but in their eyes, the crumb has become a loaf in the transit.
They’ve given as much as they’re capable of giving, but it’s not up to much, but in their eyes, they think it’s brilliant because they’ve normalised their own bad behaviour.
The key is that you have got to stop thinking that because someone has given all that they can give that it makes it enough, or believing that you can continue to put your bucket down in the emotional blackhole well in the hope that on one of the buckets trips, some extra emotion will come out.
When they first started doing things that you didn’t like, you will have objected, but in eventually accepting their behaviour because you wanted to believe in the best him, the illusion, the guy you think is hidden within, or the relationship that you so desperately want, your expectations got managed down to accommodate them, and you got trained.
You have adapted to the whims and idiosyncrasies each time you have been with these men, so what was abnormal has become totally normal.
This is how you end up becoming distanced from yourself and forgetting who you are, what you need, what you want etc.
This is why it is important to step back, cut contact, have some breathing space, and figure out who the hell you are, what you’re doing, what you want, and where you are going.
You need to separate yourself from your men and re-establish your identity.
You and your Mr Unavailable/assclown are not the same person.
They don’t get to make the rules – you do.
They don’t get to define the boundaries – you do.
They don’t get to decide what you like and don’t like – you do.
More importantly, you have to step back and re-evaluate this relationship thang because trust me, normalising their bad behaviour and moulding, adapting, and accommodating till the cows come home is not working for you.
You don’t get extra brownie points. They don’t love you more, respect you, trust you, or care about you more. In fact, they just use your behaviour as an excuse to continue their behaviour because they believe and know that if you loved yourself more and had boundaries in place, there’s no way in hell you’d continue to give him the time of day.
If you’ve been saying to yourself that you don’t know what’s normal anymore or that you no longer know what a normal relationship looks like, step back, re-evaluate, and start building a you with boundaries and healthier attitudes towards yourself and love.
If you put your feet in reality and think about how these men have behaved, you will recognise that at times they’ve been nothing short of outrageous! You can only truly see this if you don’t have the shadow of their crap looming over you which is why cutting contact, ending the relationship, whatever it is you need to do, in time, will give you objectivity, which in turn will give you the freedom to take care of you.
Your thoughts?
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“If you put your feet in reality and think about how these men have behaved, you will recognise that at times they’ve been nothing short of outrageous! You can only truly see this if you don’t have the shadow of their crap looming over you which is why cutting contact, ending the relationship, whatever it is you need to do, in time, will give you objectivity, which in turn will give you the freedom to take care of you.”
This line is true. After almost 10 months of no contact and dealing with pent up emotions, I no longer care about what my ex Unavailable Assclown is doing, thinking, or feeling. A thought about him runs through my mind daily, but it’s fleeing and only commemorates that I had learned from this experience. Hey, if I’m alright, then all of you will be too.
The only reason this has lasted is because I never, ever, ever picked up a call or read an email–and I never, ever, ever allowed him to send me either. His number, email, screen names, and even mutual crappy unavailable friends were all cut off. And now more than ever I realize that not only am I free, but I AM BETTER THAN HE WILL EVER BE!
Discipline, focus, discipline, focus, seeing clealry, insisting on loving yourself and not settling.
Not bothering to continue fruitlessly discussing it with someone hoping he’ll change – knowing within yourself you aren’t getting your needs met and moving on.
Repeat the above.
I love these articles of yours NML – every single time they feed what I am hungry for that day. They keep me on track.
They are my “fallback Womans’ Anonymous meeting” 🙂
Thank you.
More importantly, you no longer know what is ‘normal’ anymore.
OMG how true!! I came out of a 23 year marriage to the King of ACs and by the end could not even tell you what my favorite food was!
Then I began a relationship with another AC…I mean, I know how I want to be treated but with all my issues I feel that the crumbs were the best that I deserved. I remember telling a friend soon after it started how I felt when he paid me (what I still chose to believe is a sincere compliment)
“A drop of rain is like a flood in a desert.” So to me all the crumbs were feasts based on my pervious relationship
You need to separate yourself from your men and re-establish your identity.
Oh, do I ever!! Reading this helps…it reminds me that I get to call the shots in my life, that I deserve to be treated well, that I deserve to be happy.
Thank you NML for all the help!!
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!
“I wouldn’t be this way if you were thinner/if you were already in the USA/if so much time had not passed/let ME have an open relationship but YOU can’t see anyone else†crap… (I should point out that I told him he can have anyone who is willing to have him (HA) but that would not include me, so it’s not like there were not boundaries I just had no real frame of reference to place his worldview in).
Or “Your weight is 75% of the problem” – he sounded surprised when I called him on that during the terminal MSN voicecall “Did I actually say that?”
You did indeed.
I might actually print that out and stick it on the wall. I am a big girl, indeed, but I am losing the weight and going to the gym FOR ME. I’m already his “ideal size” now, and I used to fantasise about sending him a picture of me to say “and you will never have it”. Now I also think “and you will never even SEE it let alone have it” if I think anything at all … mainly, I think about the very pretty clothes I will be able to wear when I get to target weight 🙂
Oh, my! This was me all the way…until one day 13 months ago I went out on a date with my now-fiance. On that day I began to see that he WAS different than all the other supposed nice guys from before — those that kind of dangled good behavior in front of me from time to time, making me think they were better matches for me (and more mature) than they really were. Now I am with someone who gave — and continues to give — 100% of his love, respect, acceptance…all the time. Ladies, it may take a while, but there are truly normal guys out there. Drama and half-ass, rationalized, narcissistic immature behavior does NOT have to be what you settle for.
Thank you for writing this!
The scary thing about this post is there was a time that my ex eum said that he felt like I was not really in reality…! he would contradict himself constanlty yet i would not bat an eyelid, I was tired…. he said that he would not mind marrying me in two or three years but at the same time said he was scared of commitment!! How shocking was that! as for the bad behaviour, now I know why, he was behaving badly to push me away cos he was still into his ex but instead of just ending it like a man he took the spinless route of bad behaviour.I was too blinded by my emotion to see it for what it was.
And looking back at what I forgave I am truly apalled at myself!! :-O there was a time that he called me his ex’s name when drunk, abandoned me in a taxi without paying the bill cos i wanted to stay the night at mine own place and he wanted me over at his, would never stay next to me when we went out at night and would be all over the club, always made me pay half of everything, was sarcastic and compare me sublty to his ex and the list goes on… I started becoming what i thought he wanted me to be and accomodating things but it only made things worse…after we broke up, I found it weird going shopping to buy a dress and not having to think of what he would like or what his ex used to wear…YUCK YUCK YUCK, it was so twisted…good riddance to bad rubbish and hello real me :-)!!
love to all of you and NML!! 🙂
This wasn’t my xEUM doing this but here is a great example of bad behavior that I might have tolerated in the past.
After my breakup I started talking to a man from a social networking site. He seemed nice and it was long distance so after a few weeks he gave me his phone number and I called him.. Anyway long story short, I was in no shape to be talking to men at that point since I was not healed from my recent breakup. I quickly discovered this guy was an AC just by his behavior of disappearing and then reappearing and other red flags. In the course of the time we spoke I did give him my number which I later regretted. We stopped talking several months ago and I haven’t heard from him until last week. Out of the blue he calls me up and starts talking about coming to see me and how he wants to move to another state. Huh?? Here is a man that I haven’t heard from in months and suddenly he wants to visit me and move in??? But the real clincher was when he said the reason he called is he just found my number and hadn’t thought of me since we last talked. LMAO. What a freakin idiot. After we hung up I was stunned. It just showed me once again how he thought there was absolutely nothing wrong with disappearing for months and then calling out the clear blue sky with inappropriate demands of my time. Needless to say I told him to take a flying leap and deleted his number from my call log.
Thank god I’ve had the time to reflect on how low I had sunk after my EUM relationship that I even gave this jerk a second of my time. But looking back on it now, of course I was talking to someone like this because I was as emotionally unavailable as he was, hence the long distance thing. It was just a way of recreating the drama I was used to in my EUM relationship. I almost wanted to thank this AC for giving me a wake up call last week and reminding mr how I never want to be in that place ever again. Amen.
Normalizing bad behavior becomes second nature until you realize one day what you’ve been excusing.
I just spun out a man that I met a few weeks ago.
Strike number 1, he wanted ME to drive and go out of my way to meet HIM in his neighborhood, nope, not doing it. (I’ve done that before and men who ask you to drive and meet them are usually miserly and selfish).
Strike number 2, called ME to arrange a date, then another call came in while we’re talking. Instead of finalizing our call, he kept me on hold, after a few minutes, I hung up. He immediately called me back a few minutes later and I was so pissed I let it go to VM. He gave a lame apology.
The next day (Strike #3) he left me an email and said he wasn’t good at chasing women and that he wasn’t trying to lead me on and that he wasn’t promising anything. WTH? I also noticed that he never called on the weekend, only during the week. So he was either married or had a g/f that he took out on the weekend.
When I called him on the weekend thing, he ceased communication with me. Good!
My point in all this is that you cannot make a cookie out of a crumb. I have had friends and lovers throw me crumbs for years and I was pathetic and desperate enough to take it. NO MORE.
I deserve first class treatment from all people in life as I give that to all people in my life. The minute it continues to slide into 2nd class treatment, I leave.
Butterfly…”Your weight is 75% of the problem”???? Wah?? No – your ex needs to wake up to the fact that he is 100% of the problem, lol.
Good for you – you can always drop weight but what can he do about himself? Not a lot.
I hadn’t got an obvious problem or “fault” for Mr EU to hang the blame on, so he hung it on his “gal pal”. This was the woman he shared his home (and bed) with for 3+ years but who refused to sleep with him for almost 2 years of that (maybe isn’t as hot as he likes to imagine then, huh?).
How he worried and avoided committing because: She wouldn’t be able to cope without him, see. She hadn’t done anything wrong. Her lack of sex drive was down to her menopause. Blah de blah de blah.
Meanwhile, I kept reminding him that he said he actually HADN’T GOT A RELATIONSHIP.
Luckily, I didn’t dig in deep if only because the two ex’s before him were Narcissists and I’ll NEVER let that happen to me again), so waving him goodbye wasn’t hard.
Even so, it bothers me that I wasted 3/4 months waiting to hear from him every day, with the heart sinking if there was nothing; and for even a minute put up with behaviour I should have told him to sod off with right away.
It is something in me, I can see that now after reading many of the articles here. Not a “fault”, not a “problem”; just something I was unaware of and might not even want to change in the end. I like being “alone” with my family, daughter, friends, animals, writing, colleagues… alone? But for the chance!
I intend to work through it all and find out what’s going on inside me, but I just might say “I’m fine as I am” in the end, rather than, “Now I’m ready for The One”.
Isn’t Knowledge power after all 😉
Best Regards, Leonine
Is this well timed or what?
I’ve just realised that I have reached the end of the road after over 6 years of accommodating outrageous behaviour. I went from number 1 ‘girlfriend’ for 2 years- to FBG to his latest long distance woman,this craziness has gone on for another 4 years. During this time I’ve got to understand his attitude towards women and call him on it, we’re more FWB these days and nothing he can do or say can hurt me again but…..
I can see that I expected less and less of him, and trusted little that came out of his mouth, all that’s been left is the sex, which doesn’t happen when the current LDR is here and she intends to move here soon to be with him. She doesn’t know that he’s continued to see me for the past 4 years,and she certainly doesn’t know, because neither did I until yesterday, that there is a 3rd woman on the scene!!!!
This is it for me, I could accept the LDR, it meant I saw him almost every weekend which suited me, but now I’ve realised that my time slot is the weekend and the third woman gets him midweek, and when the LDR is here he is not allowed out on his own at all. I am so shocked, I cannot get my head around this at all, what sort of man juggles so many women? Truly he is without emotions or morals, it really is all about servicing his needs.
Well I’ve normalized a lot of his behaviour, no doubt he’s done the same though God knows how he can convince himself that 3 is OK, but I am stunned and angry at this, so that’s the end for me.
And I’m now sorry for the LDR who is about to give up her life to move here to be with him – she knows nothing, I wish she did know but feel that I can’t be the one to warn her, she may not believe me anyway. What a mess,and he’s the one sailing off thinking he’s a great honest person who tells it like it is, so stupid women for wanting anything different. Thank God I woke up. Thanks site.
“You know the “It’s not like I cheat/beat/steal/do x,y,z like ‘other’ guys†kind of rubbish… Or “I wouldn’t be this way if you weren’t so needy/thinner/gave me more BJ’s/let me sleep around…†crap…”
That is so true,my ex would blame me for all the crap he did.Even things that had nothing to do with me like he being late he found a way to blame on me,it was unbeliviable.Our relationship was so out from what a relationship should be on the end and I lost focus of what a normal relationship should be like.
“Their oversized ego’s, which compensate for the little boy within, have them rationalising their behaviour to themselves and deciding that they’re Mr Wonderful’s.”
I totaly can relate to that.He was the one giving me crumbs and a relationship that looked totaly oposite than what a relationship should be and the problem was me? Yes I had my faults too but he just couldnt seem to see his.Once after we first break and we working on things to try to be together again,I asked him “What about you? What you think you need to change so we can work?” and he said “Me? Nothing,I was the one who broke up so I shouldnt change anything.” Can you believe that? Yes he was the one who broke up but you think that if he was such a great bf as he thought he was I would be unhappy as I was? That should be enough to show him that he needed to do changes too.
At least now I know what I want.I see other couples that have a good relationship and I know that is what I want.I had enough of EUMs,ACs and all those disfunctional relationships.
Oh for sure Leonine, that comment made me ignore his mails. Say what? She’s ignoring my emails? She NEVER ignores my emails. Cue text begging me to let him know I was ok.
Sadly I got rose tinted glasses a little later and went back there – during this time I said if he had not texted me I’d never have spoken to him again and he said that he “had to let me know he still cared”.
Well, this time there has been no text from him (presumably he doesn’t care, but this is by the by and I am not fussed that this is so these days) – I doubt there will be. He’s probably feeling OH so relieved that he doesn’t have to “feel bad” any more.
I am shaking my head as I write this to be honest, in compassion for the me that was hurt and also in a way for him because unless he changes he’ll never know real true intimacy.
Hopefully I will, from a better place and with someone who deserves someone to care for them. It will NOT be a narcissistic airhead, I can’t agree enough with Leonine that once you are WISE to this sort of thing and understand your own emotional unavailability (or even inverted narcissism) you have the tools to work on it and free yourself from this crap!
Lol, Butterfly, don’t you just LOVE rose tinted glasses? If only we could wear them all the time, or at least whenever we chose. (Who the hell is slipping them on us when we’re not looking?).
It’s too bad that they won’t ever know true intimacy, I agree Butterfly – but (I hate to sound harsh) that’s there choice and I’ve got better things to think about: ME!
You will find someone right for you – this stuff we’re reading here, WoW! I’ve said before somewhere on this site that it’s the first time ever in my life I’ve even heard this information. Why aren’t we taught it at school?
But I can feel it’s what they call “Good Stuff”. With this info and knowledge, Butterfly, you’ll get the better sorts coming towards you now, if that’s what you want, and it’s NOTHING to do with size/weight or anything else.
I know you’re probably tired of hearing that but my darling auntie got rid of her abusive husband after the birth of their third child… and spent about two months alone before her current husband stepped forward to claim her – a really handsome man 10 years her junior and rather well off.
My auntie is 22 stones! 308lbs for you Americans out there 🙂
You YOU are redefines a man’s idea of the Perfect Woman.
Best Regards, Leonine
@Butterfly- “once you are WISE to this sort of thing and understand your own emotional unavailability (or even inverted narcissism) you have the tools to work on it and free yourself from this crap!”
I know that NML says that for us to be atracted to EUM we need to be EU ourselves but how is that? I mean I cant understand how Im EU.Im sweet,caring,have empathy for others,all the things that EUs dont have.But I did noticed something weird,when I tried to date a while ago I would find myself anoyed when guys paid too much atention on me.I dont know why but would bother me and I just felt like I had to go away or when I thought about meeting them I would fell scared.I thought that was very strange because those are things I said I wanted in a man and when I find one that has that I dont fell good? It just doesnt make sense.Anyway I cant fuly understand it so anybody could explain to me please?
Anusha,
You just described being emotionally unavailable. The blowing hot and cold. Getting close, then getting uncomfortable and backing away.
It means you are getting into the wrong kind of relationship. There is something there that attracts you, yet you aren’t interested in everything there. Your emotional attachment and intellectual attachment aren’t coming together. There is some fear or self esteem issue, some failure of expectations or you want power and control without giving trust.
Someone trying to make a relationship with you will likely try to adapt – normalize – to your sometimes-availability. And thus they begin to act emotionally unavailable, too. The chances that someone that is available will be attracted or stay is slimmer, than that they are already reserved and private and can’t trust.
Being sweet and caring, even showing empathy for others can be a disguise for feeling inadequate. Then you and others react to the mask, thinking that is who you are – and leaving the inner disquiet to surface, partially, to disrupt and interfere with your life when a relationship gets close to something that your inner disquiet fears or doesn’t trust, or disdains.
This is partly true of most everyone. Very few people ever really delve into and understand themselves; most don’t need to. But when it interferes with your life, your ability to make and keep friends, to find a mate, then you need to look behind the surface mask, and answer the disconnects that interfere with your life.
sadthing, how old is this guy?
@Janet good for you! I feel the same way…you start acting the fool and you are gone. C Ya!! and I watch everything they do, not say, but do to see if they really are who they say they are, b/c as we know, these men tell us exactly who they are by their actions and deeds (or misdeeds) and even sometimes by their words, but we refuse to see. Actions speak louder that words, everytime and you have to met MY standards and meet MY criteria, b/c I AM the catch, not you…ME!
I love this post, particuarly the lines:
“They don’t get to make the rules – you do.
They don’t get to define the boundaries – you do. They don’t get to decide what you like and don’t like – you do.”
That is sooo right on!!! So true.. this is about me, my life, my needs, I am responsible for my happiness and no one has the right to treat me badly. No one.. and if you do, bye, I’m outta here.
B/c they don’t love you more when you twist yourself to fit their limited, crazy, fetid little world. They don’t respect you more, they don’t stop to say “you know, she can take all of of my Shit, so I guess I’ll start treating her well now b/c she deserves it.” NO! they look at you like you are crazy and decide to keep on doing what their doing because there are no consequences. And, yes, we are crazy to accept their rudeness, their coldness, their insensitivity, their abuse, their lies.
I love this post NML, thank you for keeping things fresh and new and REAL. Thank you.
Thank you Brad K for your reply to Anusha, it was very informative to this fbg/euf.
“If you put your feet in reality and think about how these men have behaved, you will recognise that at times they’ve been nothing short of outrageous”—
that’s true. Looking back, I see him as nothing short of RUDE. Rude, impolite, ill-mannered, ungentlemanly. What gave him the idea that behavior like that was acceptable? It must have been my attitude! I should have banished him from my life much sooner than I did.
As long as I have nothing to do with the AC I feel great. I can’t even make eye contact with the creep because he’s so beneath me. He never for a second deserved my kindness or friendship. Avoiding him feels SO MUCH BETTER than having him anywhere near my life. I see him as a disgusting parasite.
What makes me feel GOOD is– I successfully managed a huge project with another man and we became good friends. He treats me with such respect, I enjoy his company– and our project was the most successful in recent history.
The AC and I had a project that completely fizzled. It could have been fantastic but it never got off the ground because it would have required teamwork and respect– two things the AC is incapable of.
Initially, I treated both men the same- with kindness, respect, friendliness, etc.. One relationship grew, while the one with the AC turned into a ridiculous fiasco.
I wonder what was it about me that kept trying to “change” the AC– what made me think my “love” would have any impact? I look back and realize he was a jerk since the beginning but I didn’t want to see it. I wonder why not?
Thank you Brad for your answer 🙂 Yes I can see how me geting close and then backing away is a EU behaviour.I dont know why I do but I just fell realy uncomfortable when guys show much interest on me.I noticed I have a tedency to chase people(how I hate it and just wish I would stop it).I did that a lot with my ex and even now I catch myself doing that.Is funy how I seem to care for people more when they are acting distant.There was a guy that I was talking with that seemed interested on me and he would talk to me for long time everyday and I just wasnt much interested but as soon as he started to back off and talk to me less I caught myself chasing him.Is like I try to “win people over”.With my ex was like that all the time,he acting like if he didnt love me and me trying to make him act like if he did.I would like to sugest a post about it to NML too btw,I think would help us to understand how we are EU.
There is a sentence I want to share with all of you that I think could help us.It says: If you want orange,go look for it instead of trying to change a apple into a orange.
I think that is pretty good to remind us to go after the guy that has the qualities we want instead of chosing one that doesnt have them and try to turn him into the guy we want.
Anusha,
Absolutely you felt uncomfortable. That is why EUM’s turn away. It isn’t a conscious choice, and is seldom (at first) deliberately done to manipulate someone.
It sounds like you fear being rejected, so you work really hard to be accepted. You chase guys that are kind of distant. Until you don’t fear losing them as much. But then if they get closer than that, your other fears of closeness open up the distance again.
Suppose someone had a father that didn’t understand about discipline, that thought that a good smack would “smarten” a kid up. Let us suppose that that kid would love their father, and want to be close. Yet the father often swung out at the kid in frustration at life, in annoyance when the kid intruded (without teaching the kid how to be polite, tactful, and relate well to others). That kid might grow up believing that getting close to someone in an intimate relationship meant annoying them. And no one likes to think they annoy people they are close to.
The kid might understand people that have trouble getting close, and would be more likely to socialize – and try a relationship – with someone that is also reluctant to get close, but panics and turns on the charm at any fear of losing a friend or lover.
Wherever the life pattern comes from of being emotionally unavailable, solving that pattern is going to take figuring out what the issue is for that person, of getting close. And I think re-evaluating character traits and values in terms of boundaries in relationships is going to be very important. Where a teeny bopper might be able to trust that Daddy will keep unsuitable guys away, so the only issue is which is cuter or more fun, the reality is that boring old respect tends to be important. Rather than a specific height, or bank account, honor and honesty are the pillars you can build a home on. Rather than a sharp sense for clothes, loyalty and dependability keep all secure. We learn that flashy clothes and throwing great parties are exciting – and chasing excitement tends to chase away from happiness at home.
And I think that is the important part of breaking the cycle. Choose a partner that you know has the character, discipline, and interest to be a help-mate. One that cherishes and trusts you. Someone that you can believe, and that will share your belief, that you can share lives with.
Closeness should feel like coming home, with the right companion. You shouldn’t hear your parent’s voices in your ears about “be a good person” and “don’t do anything bad” because you know that this person you are with is honest, honorable – and is (or would be) respected by your parents as much as you respect him. You should be building an adult life and place in your community with your chosen partner, not rebelling or acting out with the “bad” kid.
Another part of chasing after guys is low self esteem. If you were confident that you are a good person, attractive enough for your daily needs, wholesome and accomplished – you wouldn’t chase after affection like a kid begging for candy. You might consider – figure out the one guy that seems to be really well suited to be a great mate for you – and let him know you like him.
Chasing after guys can get to be a habit, and once you find someone to share lives with, continuing to chase guys will *not* make your relationship stronger. You will learn to meet your mate head on, when needed, turn to him and know he is there, when needed, and welcome the times he turns to you.
You don’t need anyone to assure you that you are attractive, or desirable. That assurance only comes from within. Well, it helps if Mom and Dad reassure us!
This most definitely happened with my ex-husband. They start out great. Then the first time they do something, it is usually small, and not a deal breaker, so you don’t say a lot, or you are so flabbergasted that what they did is out of character compared to who you think they are, that you accept their explanation. They appear to believe forgiveness is a ticket to repeat behavior, and then slowly add another new distasteful behavior on top. They condition you slowly, where you don’t realize what is going on, till it is too late, and you are in deep.
You don’t get extra brownie points. They don’t love you more, respect you, trust you, or care about you more. In fact, they just use your behaviour as an excuse to continue their behaviour because they believe and know that if you loved yourself more and had boundaries in place, there’s no way in hell you’d continue to give him the time of day…
I think this every time I text or have contact I think it really does become unfair of me to contact him after cutting contact and what can I expect of him now ?? Why should he change I said hey I went away for 5 months but you know what Im ready and refreshed for more of the same can you serve it up for me please?? And my gut feeling is now he is running hot for him I will if I choose to get more ot worse of the same.. So the issues and problems are with me and in some ways because I have knowledge now thanks to this site and books if I get burned then I am responsible… A lot to think about thank you NML …
I think that for some reason that I have normalised the b.s in my former relationship that even after the break up I wasn’t really really getting at root of the issues. Now I am experiencing the boomerange effect – it’s just sinking in everything that I tolerated and put up with, suffered and pushed through just to hold on to a relationship that was not working for years. Where my ex was so out of touch of what it takes for a relationship to work that he simply “didn’t think of me” as he said a million times. “It never occured to me that you’d be hurt” and then repeat the same thing over and over again. I texted him the other night to tell him that there has been a lot I’ve bottled up and would like to say…after waiting almost 24 hours i texted him again asking why he hadn’t responded – he calls me instantly all sad saying that he has been thinking about my text all day… when I asked him why he didn’t acknowledge he said I’ve know him for 6 years I should “know” that he’s going to get back to me.
And he was being sincere – this is how he thinks…he should have to make the effort to send me a one line text to say ok ….etc… i should just know what he is thinking…
nothing has changed…it’s like he doesn’t have the capacity to think beyond himself
What an analogy….The flinging of the crumb and the AC’s belief that an airbound crumb is a loaf. This made me laugh outloud realizing how ridiculously stingy the man was at the same time he saw his crumbs as special, how I bought into his excuses when he was obviously less than special, and how I made a few excuses of my own for him too.
So, right on NML, this is a great analysis of how dysfunction occurs, how it is a conditioned dynamic that becomes familiar, even if uncomfortable and absurd, and explains why it is often found in close relationships.
NC is the escape, a clean place to revaluate what is important to you, what good, kind treatment means to you, what is right for you and how you want to live your life. For me, NC made me identify with nevergoingbackthereagain’s inspired namesake.
I had to separate my efforts to be understanding from all the bad feelings the poor behavior was bringing up inside me. NC made me able to do so and gave me the distance to see the extent I normalized that really crumby behavior.
Compromising my standards sure took it’s toll on me because it never felt right to me from the beginning and made me feel uneasy all along the way.Towards the end I was mostly depressed and discouraged.
However, with NC…lesson learned, and I am certain I am a better person for it.
I came out of an affair over a year ago and it still hurts. The other woman chooses to stay on with this AC and I can see how he has transformed her. From an intelligent, attractive, independent and smart woman, she has become a total dependent, her happiness only rest with his mercy. Well, she still thinks she is the happy one since there is no other women to compete with her now. All the other girlfriends know about this AC’s behaviour and friendship is gone forever. This article is so true because after burying yourself in this kind of unhealthy relationship, you become immuned already, not knowing right and wrong and eventually loses your identity. So sad yet it’s hard core evidence. I don’t understand why there are people who still chooses to believe in this type of men and chooses to ignore or hate the other woman. I wasn’t aware that this person actually has been leading a double or triple life all these years. The hardest thing is the courage to get out and the writer is very right in saying that you will start to take bad behavior as the norm and see the whole world in a distorted image. Don’t accept any type of toxic relationship and learn how to protect ourselves!
@Brad – thank you for your input, invaluable. Also, “seldom (at first)” because this is the part I have struggled with. Being together would have been difficult but not impossible – one of the things which attracted me to him was that he seemed to make up his mind to go for something then go balls-out to get it. I was thrilled at this because guess what, I didn’t want to fix someone, I wanted an EQUAL.
How ironic that with him I was ready to be emotionally available finally, and being with him made me way more EUW than I ever was.
@TJ “The AC and I had a project that completely fizzled. It could have been fantastic but it never got off the ground because it would have required teamwork and respect– two things the AC is incapable of.”
However, I am a person who goes after what I want and either gets it or decides that it was not meant to be. The differences became apparent after a little time though: I get what I want by sheer hard work, determination, co-operation and action. I won’t use other people (other than in a mutually supportive way or via business networking but this is also all “good stuff”). One early red flag which I not only ignored but put on as a blindfold was that he was using all his friends and that his family absolutely would not back him in anything – and that even in business he seemed to choose parasitic behaviours to get by. I remember feeling outraged on his behalf that his family wouldn’t use his new business venture or invest … and he was CONSTANTLY seeking parental advice, at the age of 36 he didn’t decide to quit a job he didn’t like until his DAD said it was ok to – they fired him before he could quit anyway and I still didn’t see the light!!!
No wonder he was uncomfortable – in the final mail I saw from him, the one trying to keep me sweet, he said that he always admired the way I could handle life … lol. Nuff said?
@cece – urgh! This is so classic. After 6 years he knows he can do as he likes – I hope you find the strength to just ignore this guy for keeps.
@tulipa – my walk away from him was three months and yeah he was running crash hot until I discovered exactly what he had been up to. THEN he started avoiding me (admitted as much) when I called him on not telling me any of it when I had been totally open and honest with him. What did he say? He mumbled “I hoped you’d never find out”.
I’m running out of space really – crystal, searchingwithin … many others … yep!
Don’t accept bullshit or bullshitters 🙂 Maybe, just maybe, if all women were wised up to crap then people would change (there’s my rose tinted specs again).
@Leonine – thank you hon. The key thing I am seeing is that I simply don’t have to be a giver all the time for people to like me. I guess through my job that urge is sublimated: I am helping people and that’s what I am expected to do without being a pushover in any way.
My friend said to me the other day that in my personal relationships I am a doormat, which is SO at odds with the rest of my personality. This friend is EUM but doesn’t actually really want to be and treats me on an even keel/with respect – EUM does not necessarily have to mean BAD for you, it all depends on your expectations I guess.
The mistakes I made are exactly the same as everyone ele here has made.Looking back and seing how toxic it all became is because I continued to tolerate bad behaviour.Feeling so insecure about myself,I always believed that I was in the wrong when he took me to task about things like asking why he was so silent,why he hadn’t responded to certain things.He would then tell me to stop “hounding” him,or “pestering” him.In my gut,I always felt this was shocking behaviour,but I had no confidence to stand up for myself and get the hell away!I feared “losing” him,so I accommodated all that abusive (because lets face it,that’s what it is) behaviour.I was scared that one day I would say something that would push him away forever,and then what would I do???
And this behaviour I would never have tolerated from other people.And when I asked close friends if I was the way he had described me,they laughed.And over time my friends began to notice the change in me.I was “beaten down”,had dark circles under my eyes(insomnia from staying awake all night either trying to analyse his latest stunt,or stressing why he hadn’t replied to a text).I became silent and withdrawn,my life revolving around the next time I would hear from him.
I am ashamed when I think of how low I allowed myself to go,how I let my morals slide,how I showered him with gifts which he would acknowledge in a one line text.(we had a LDR).I remember it was his birthday and I had taken the trouble to make up a parcel of lots of little gifts to supplement the expensive books I had sent him that he wanted.Just novelty stuff,aftershave etc.But I had put alot of thought into it.I was devastated to get a text saying “Thanks for the goodies.I know you are generous,but my needs are money for my cellphone,cash for gas and books,so if you can channel your generosity in that direction..”When I expressed my hurt at his reaction,he just accused me of overreacting.According to him,that’s what I did-overreact much of the time,or was “negative”.
What did give me food for thought was a friend who once said to me-“If you were giving someone else advice who was in your situation,what would you say to them?”
Funny, I wrote and performed a one woman show about ten years ago, called ‘normalizing the abnormal’… being a tourist in your own life 🙂
Bit by bit, I am owning, loving and cherishing the life I have been given. Acceptance of yourself, the people you chose to be in it, the direction of your creative life, your spiritual life, how you look, where you come from, where you chose to live. How you see things, how you think things, how you feel things. All part of growing up I guess.
The intimate relationship seems to be the biggest hurdle, I look forward to getting that right and choosing the right mate, more work to do :).
kisses to all, love all the postings here. Brad you are wonderful!!
peace
Speaking of crumbs… the AC congratulated my partner on the success of our project. He never spoke to me. Did he think talking to my partner was a “loaf” and I’m supposed to be pleased with that crumb of goodwill?? Was I supposed to be OK with him for mentioning our success– to someone else? Like if word of what he said got back to me (and obviously it would) it would be good enough?? Like I’m supposed to care that he feigned interest?
I never bothered to make eye contact though I noticed he was trying to catch my eye. I don’t accept crumbs.
It’s so empowering to walk away from these losers.
Hi Astelle. The AC is 51 and very fit, well he’d have to be to have 3 women on the go!
I woke up this morning depressed as I know this has to mean the end. I know him well, like most of them he needs a primary woman to worship him but doesn’t like the responsibility so maintains another woman as his get out of jail card and ego booster.
I stopped being the primary one years ago, but became the FBG. I slowly saw through him and stopped worshipping him and he knows it, I tried to end it recently but he persuaded me to continue. So for months now it’s been sex and a laugh but no ego strokes. Oh and the LDR is closing in on him so he’ll really be panicking and needs a new get out of jail card cos I’m not fulfilling the role properly. Today I feel saddened and deceived, and I’m not even his primary woman who knows nothing and is planning to leave her country to live with him. What a sad situation for her.
This post has helped me see that I’ve normalised his bad behaviour over the years, nothing much he does surprises me any more but this has really thrown me. He’s sneakier than I thought.
Eyes wide open and Cece your stories above are familiar, the phrases and tactics they use are the same, where do they learn this stuff?
“Thanks for the goodies.I know you are generous,but my needs are money for my cellphone,cash for gas and books,so if you can channel your generosity in that direction..â€
I think this is incorrect – his needs are for a boiling soup enema.
I thought my ex-ass was ungrateful … WOW …
@sadthing I didn’t see your post. Don’t be sad hon, hard as it is, you have a clarity of thinking to sustain you. You are seeing things exactly as they are instead of wondering, which is the thing which is screwing up millions of women around the world right as you read this.
You know it has to end but please consider this – whilever this man has a foot in your door it can’t close and if it can’t close other doors can’t open. Who knows who is outside that door – maybe it is just the real you, I say “just” that is a prize many people never get the chance to find. You are LUCKY – remember this – you are lucky and life is teaching you something beyond measure.
I caught myself fantasising just now, nothing major, a little domesticity as it was discussed and visualised LONG long ago – and I shook myself because the truth is that if he was here right now I’d not be sitting on the sofa doing an elaborate footcare regime because I’d want to look my best even when trying to be my best … vicious circle – as it is, I am uncaring that I have been attacking the hard skin with a cheese grater (as good as). My tootsies feel and look great now!
Butterfly thanks, your comments about domesticity really made me laugh especially as I am about to put polish on my toenails for the first time in weeks before facing the world! And as someone suggested putting on my favourite lipstick.
That’s one of the weird things though, I KNEW I could never live with him, I’d have ended up trying to please him all the time, that’s why I liked the part time ‘relationship’ we’ve had for years. Gradually my lifestyle which involves reading, listening to the radio and pottering around the garden, would have morphed into his which revolves around fishing (his job) and sleeping or watching TV (and sex of course when he wasn’t punishing me for something). There’s still this small fantasy though of how it could have been – totally unrealistic but difficult to shake off.
Clarity hurts like hell at the moment but you’re right, far better than always wondering, and never feeling secure which is what a future with him would be.
Enjoy your pampered tootsies!
Leonine
I know a woman who used to be hassled by her husband about her weight and lost 80 kg of ugly fat with a special diet…
…she divorced him.
Ladies recently I’ve had the experience of a potential EUM who put out all the cues that he was interested in me in a romantic way and then pulled the friendship card. I agreed to be friends (we had not crossed any lines) but he would still make jokes of a sexual nature and then I got to thinking that I don’t joke like that with my other male friends so the red flags were out.
I worked very hard at killing the sexual attraction thing with him by having the mantra “he’s just not into you” etc.
It would appear that he is after a handy Jane for an ego stroke when and as it suits him but I’ve also adapted that attitude – two can play that game so it’s very much an “oh yeah, if it suits me and fits my timetable” kind of thing.
I think women need to become very hard headed about romance and letting their guard down particularly about sex. My marriage ended 7.5 years ago and I haven’t dated anyone at all because first I needed to heal and second there hasn’t been anyone who met my standards until recently and that ended up being a bust.
I remember quite clearly talking to my ex-husband when he started talking about marriage and laid out the deal breakers which were: no philandering, no emotional or physical abuse, no excessive drinking or gambling, no economic bullying and if we were able to have kids no molestation of them. He failed on the no emotional and physical abuse so I left him. People that I have spoken to about my deal breakers have thought me harsh for voicing them to men but I always counter with ” so tell me, what’s so romantic about a relationship ot marriage break up?
Ladies stay strong and always listen to that nagging voice no matter how small that tells you to get out or to have your guard up until you get to know someone really well on a friendship basis first without sex clouding everything.
know a woman who used to be hassled by her husband about her weight and lost 80 kg of ugly fat with a special diet…
…she divorced him.
Lol, Snook – I’ve done the same myself and miraculously lost 14 stones overnight on three separate occasions!
What I’ve come to notice is this dangerous “dream” we’ve been fed almost all of our lives, through stories, films, books, records… The One, How It Can Be, What Love Is Like… blah de blah de blah…
And this sung/acted/played by hard-headed business people who’d drop their families and children if it benefitted their careers.
There is no “dream”, not even in good real relationships. There’s partnership and co-effort, and co-support, and co-work, and co-enjoyment and a whole load of other co-s that we haven’t even started to experience yet.
The “dreamy” honeymoon stage apparently only lasts around 2 years anyway, which is short enough without cutting it down to 2 months because of an EU or AC. Beyond that, there needs to be a whole lot more in place than a “dreamy dream”.
Snook is right to advocate staying strong – and not just now, in the heartache bit, but wayyyyyy beyond that, throughout life. And we can’t do that by reviving snippets of “lost dreams” with which to torment ourselves periodically. NML is right too: It Wasn’t That Good; Don’t Sit Waiting; Figure Out What YOU Want From Life; and a whole bunch of other philosophies that can help us work on ourselves and change those inner pattern that keep drawing this EUs and ACs to us.
It we really want things to be different in our futures, we need to stop “dreaming” about our pasts and sticking to that failed formula.
Let this be painful. We should. Because the more it hurts, the more obvious it becomes that this isn’t something nice we’ve been involved in, never mind Love!
Best Regards, Leonine
@Butterfly – thanks for the enema comment:).I really needed someone objective to tell me he was ungrateful and it wasn’t me being thoughtless for not attending to his pressing “needs”. I’m going to tell you something really embarrassing that makes me cringe now…I actually apologised for not giving him the right gift,and proceeded to send him the money he required.Ironically,all the time over his birthday he was courting the “woman of his dreams”.Oh,and the day of his birthday I phoned and phoned and he just never answered or acknowledeged the loving birthday text I sent him.Eventually I sent him a text asking why he was so offish,and I called again.He answered and just said he had been “busy” out for breakfast,lunch etc (with family).But too busy to take a call-all lies because he was with her and didn’t want to take my call,I know that was the real reason.He was having a party at home that night,and little did I know(until later) she had been invited(I live too far away).When we spoke on the phone on his birthday it was all “darling” “sweetheart”, and get this-I even joked and said I hoped he didnt have another girlfriend there…Which he denied!!When I asked him when this all blew up how he could have lied to me on his birthday when I asked him about someone else,he just said “It was my birthday and I didn’t want to upset myself by saying anything to you.I wasn’t ready to tell you yet”.Interesting how the next morning he was able to text me to ask me to buy and send him a dvd he
wanted-knowing full well he was going to watch it with her!!
When I later confronted him about “using me”,he replied he was “sad “to think I believed he had just used me all these years…
What a load of BS!!!
Eyes wide open – thank you for your text…My AC’s b-day is this week…after reading that I WILL NOT text.
It is odd – I read everyones comments and catch myself saying “HEY, maybe that person dated my AC”
I think you have really hit something here Nat.
I think sometimes when you are being treated badly, you start over thinking things. I think when it comes to emotionally unavailable men we are our OWN WORST ENEMIES!
You know why?
Because we start to doubt our own intuition. We looking for what we want and ignoring what we don’t want to see.
We get so caught up in wanting to see a guy how we want to see him, rather than for what he really is.
We start to think … well does he like me, does he want to be with me, instead of … do i like him, does he bring out the best in me, do i really want to be with him.
I think once we take the focus OFF him and back onto US and how WE FEEL and if WE like him, we can then tune back into that strong yet soft voice within us, that has always been there.
Hot Alpha Female
Your Go To Girl For Dating Advice
@Eyes Wide Open – you are welcome hon. How’s this then … I can go to lingerie shops and think what I might buy – and I am not thinking about what I can buy for him. I don’t mean buy so he would like it – I mean buy FOR HIM. Yep.
The really dumb thing is that my ex-ass’s friend is friends with my nephew, through the music industry. Personally I’d be wary of annoying someone who knew such intimate stuff about me 🙂 Seems it never crossed his mind I’d ever say a word since I am so loyal.
Well I am loyal but not to people who mess me about, and believe me he has certainly done that. The only thing stopping me is that I refuse to drop to his level 🙂 Thinking back, apparently an ex started on about one of his other weird fetishes in public after they split so he’s really not learned over the years.
Whilst on subject, people often refer to degrading (and increasingly so) sex without elaborating why – strange likings this guy had?
This post hits home for me. I definitely “saw gold where there was rusty copper†as NML said. When my ex-AC would go for days without communicating, I would have “discussions†about it and he would always promise to be more communicative. But then he went back to…you know, his old ways. I shot myself in the foot a bit though, because when he told me he loved me, but all he could offer me was his love (he’s a MM) I stupidly said – “oh that’s OK, all I want is a few emails/chats and to see you once a month or so.†Really setting my standards low. And it was like pulling teeth to get even that much. I put up with bad relationship behaviour for 11 months after the 3 months of blowing hot. I even said to him “I have given you so many chances†and he just looked blankly at me, and asked him “do you like making me upset?†and he just said “no, am I not playing the game right?†AAAArgh how did I put up with him for so long???
@Butterfly – funny you should ask. My ex-AC would allude to “reading about†or “hearing about†some kinky kinds of stuff, but never actually asked me to do any of it (said he didn’t want to scare me or creep me out), but I always thought he would have loved to try some of it with me if I’d picked up on his suggestions. It did creep me out him just talking about it though.
@Planet Jane – remember how I thought I could never get to 2 weeks NC when you were 2 weeks and I was one day? Well, I made it with your help, and the help of many others here. Two glorious weeks of being free from bad relationship behaviour! I don’t have much extra cash, so as a reward I have changed my name on here to something that sounds more positive. You are right, every day it gets a little better.
@meant YAY, fantastic! That’s so good to see, it really is 🙂 The best things usually don’t cost much anyway but they are by you and for you (without hurting anyone else in the process) so that name change makes me really smile. Good on you!!
Thank you Brad for you answer 🙂 I probably have some fears about geting close but I have to do some introspection to find out what they are.I have been going trough failed relationships for the past years and never realy had a good relationship with a guy so far so you think maybe my fears can come from that? Geting close and loving a guy just brought me pain until now so I think maybe I get afraid to get close and get hurt again.My ex would say that after we being too close for a while like having a lot of contact and spending a lot of time together,that he just felt that need to be away for a while.I think that can be because of his EU but sometimes when we are around people much we just fell the need to by ourselves so I wonder how to identificate when that need is normal and when it is EU?
***These guys don’t see themselves in the reality because they are distanced from their emotions and distanced from their behaviour – hence why their words rarely match their actions.
Their oversized ego’s, which compensate for the little boy within, have them rationalising their behaviour to themselves and deciding that they’re Mr Wonderful’s.****
I think if there is anything that is most important to take away is the above statement on NML’s post. Time and time again this is what keeps us stuck. We have to really grasp that these men are incapable and stop trying to blame ourselves or asking WHY hasnt he called me? WHY hasnt he come looking for me? WHY doesnt he miss me? This is the reason why. Because they cant or at least not in the same capacity as a normal healthy and emotionally available person can. To be honest, it is madness to continue to think that this person is going to come around or that somehow, if we do this or say that, they will change. For the most part, once you are clear and i mean SUPER DUPER clear that it is these men that are defective you will no longer ask these questions. I know because i remained there stuck trying to find the answer for the longest time. It was incomprehensible to me how someone could be so cold, so selfish, so un-compassionate until it finally sunk in that just like you wouldnt question someone who was incapable of doing something else (such as: Why a blind man can’t see or why a baby can’t talk to you) it is what it is and nothing that you do or say can change that fact. They can try their best within their own capacities to achieve these things but asking more than what they are capable of doing is madness and is tiring not to mention a complete waste of energy.
So the next time you ask: Why doesnt he miss me? Or why did he say he loved me and is now with someone else?…….it is because of the above statement: they are distanced from their emotions. Even if they look like they have them or that they were expressing them, they dont have the full capacity to feel them therefore, how could we really say that these men loved us?? That word for them is something completely different than it is to us. How could they miss us? If “missing” to them does not hold the same weight as “missing” to us? Or what missing would mean to an otherwise man who is available and healthy emotionally. I know we use this word a lot… “EUM” so much maybe, that we forget what it means: EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE”. Thats what it means to be emotionally unavailable… they are “unavailable” to provide the level of emotions and true intimacy that a relationship requires.
It took awhile but whenever I see my AC at work, there are times when he still says: Hi, i really miss talking to you. Or I really did love you.” and you know what?…. I dont say a word because to him it may have felt that way (given his limitations and capacity) and he will never understand how his definition of “love or miss” is defective and can never in any way compare to mine. So why try? And even if i were to ask: Why did you lie, cheat and hurt me… chances are, his answer will never be enough, because lets face it… what will be enough to justify these poor actions and behaviour? And even if i were to tell him how in love with him I was and how much i wanted it to work, chances are the only thing he would be thinking in his head is: *of course, thats because im wonderful* and uhm, that would not be my intention at all!! So you’re damned either way. The only thing that is left is to “ACCEPT” this is the way these men are. Not to be ok with what they did or how they did it, but just to “ACCEPT” that, that is the way they’re minds work and that this is all they are capable of. Then, to stop pointing the finger at ourselves as the sole reason for the relationship failing. To stop beating ourselves up over what we could have done differently or why is he with her or not me? The only thing we can really work on is asking ourselves what made us get into and stay for so long with someone like this and what we can do so that we don’t see ourselves with a similar person again. Anything other than that is still us seeking answers and validation in a place where it will never be found. Not *maybe* it will be found, but never. I truly thank this site for making me see that and for helping me to stop wasting my time and mostly… to stop asking “WHY”. Once i stopped asking and seeking answers to where there really were none, I was FREE!!!! FREE because I had finally stepped into “ACCEPTANCE” and as soon as i did that, the madness cycle came to a complete halt.
I truly wish this freedom for everyone and know that it is possible!
@BradK: Thanks so much for your post! It helped me to understand how we ourselves could be EU and what that means. It is a very deep concept to grasp but one that I myself need to explore a little further – you’re post really helped to put it in simple terms. Thanks again! 😉
AMEN karen! you are so right. when i start feeling nostalgic for the AC – i think of the not so nice things he did & WHAMMO – feeling gone. It took some time to get here – but once you do – you are free. free, free, free from the madness. JUST LIKE NML says.
Nice post Karen 🙂
This is a great post as it covers what has been going on in my mind lately. I keep realizing that I have no sense of what normal is to the point that when I think of all the good my ex did for me, I wonder what I was always complaining about and worry that some woman is going to come along and scoop him up, while I took him for granted.
Somedays NML when I read your posts I think “how do you know? how do you know these guys have some sort of issue and really it just isn’t that you were not the right woman for them?” Are these men concious of what they do? My ex used to cancel on me whenever it came to hanging out with my friends and I think to myself, does he really think he can just keep doing this? And when I finally blew up about it, he dumped me saying I was too controlling. He talks the talk about kids, marriage, commitment, and he spends lots of time with you, he calls, cooks for you… but I am always reminded of a quote from an earlier posts “date 1 is like date 100.”
I just find it hard to believe that someone is so disconnected that they can continue to behave this way and on purpose. Is it a plan from the get go? Do they just get scared? I made a lot of mistakes and worry that had I done this or that… but I am not sure this person was not set to self destruct from day one and I could have been perfect and it would have blown up.
My greater concern is how to avoid this… the guy before this one had clear cut signs. Disappearing acts, failure to call, etc. This one talked the talk, wanted me to be around all the time, never vanished… I would have told you both feet were in…but it was more a general “feeling” that something was up. Since the relationship has ended is when the true colors have come out. So I feel like an idiot in some ways because while together I couldn’t tell you why I was not happy but I just knew something about him was off. And I didn’t trust my gut because I had no real complaints in terms of poor treatment.
Why do these guys seem to genuinely want a relationship and then just seem to back out or fail miserably at it? And my ex treats me now like I cheated on him and then totalled his car… he acts like I broke his heart he is so mean and vicious. I mean his behaviour is so bizarre and unbalanced I can’t even understand what happened. Are these guys just really that messed up inside? I am having a hard time because rationally I feel is someone treats me like this I must have done something to deserve this treatment, because I have such a hard time believing that someone could treat someone like this without reason…
dazed & confused: i don’t mean to comment again so soon. but, i felt exactly the same for a long time. he started blaming me for all kinds of things that made absolutely NO SENSE & on top of being dumped i blamed myself for him doing it – because that is what he told me it was absolutely awful. so..my verdict is still out if it was doomed from the beginning. what i have read( thanks NML) & heard from professionals – it was basically doomed from the start if they are truly EUM. these are not normal relationships where someone just stops loving you – these are twisted individuals. the more i read the more i have come to accept it’s best he is gone. and NO it wasn’t me. in my gut i always felt something weird about “us” and i always felt so lonely around him – it was strange.
“Abnormal behavior!!” You bet!! I used to think of it in terms of a bit bizarre but rationalized it in the context of him being a never married 40-something. In the case of my EUM, he would even shift gears (pushey,pulley) from one sentence to the next!! It was utterly confusing! Here’s an example: Understand that we were well into the relationship at this time and had spent many, many hours and days together one-on-one with the exception of spedning a little time with my family and friends.I thought it was odd I hadn’t met anyone in his life and asked him why I hadn’t. He answered, “It’s not a priority.” Anyway, I met one of his childhood friends who happens to live in the area a couple weeks later. About a week after that, he was going to interview for a new job in his former place of residence. He said, “I’ve been thinking about the relationship and although we avoid talking about it I think we’re on the same page.” I said, “Ya.” Then the shift, “I thought about introducing you to my brother, and I thought about bringing you to ______(former residence), but then I got thinking first you meet each other, then you meet the family and friends, and then you get married. If you come with me, I just don’t want you to think it means anything and how should I introduce you?” I was ANGRY!! I responded later, “What you said made me angry. My friends and family are proud to introduce me and would never have to ask HOW they should introduce me!” He said, “I just didn’t want to offend you.” I said, “Having to ask offends me.” He said, I just want you to know (regarding the relationship) this is as far as it goes.” I said, “If this is as far as it goes then it should end because I cannot be with you and not become more emotionally attached.” He lay in bed still as a rock as though he had been shot. I said, “Do you want to talk about this some more?” He said, “Not this late at night.” He stayed the night and we both slept restlessly. He was all bummed out the next morning. Long story short . . . this is one of the minor examples of bizarre behavior. His mixed messages mostly consisted of verbalizations to distance, and actions that drew us close. Anyway, I did set certain boundaries in this relationship and I’m coming to understand that he likely was unacustommed to this. During discussions toward the end he’d say, “I never understood this relationship.” During our last discussion 4 weeks ago which I consider the end he said in trying to explain why it had to end, “Let’s face it. It was abnormal.” I said, “How was it abnormal?” He said, “Because we never defined it.” I said, “Yes we did, we agreed that we were exclusive, you said “We’re together and we’ll see where it goes.” Can somebody please tell me what’s abnormal about that?? In the end it was him pushing for a decision on “long term” (which, by the way I see as nothing more than a label because a relationship is going to evolve how its going to evolve regardless of a label) and acting as though that’s what I needed!! He knows I would have defined it as that if he wanted and continued with him. I know believe that the relationship seemed abnormal to him because I set boundaries and didn’t completely suck into his dysfunction, therefore, I don’t think he experienced the sense of control he’s used to. He pulled all the typical stuff at the end (friendship card, alternatives) but he already knew I wouldn’t consider any of it because I’d already made it clear. He kept me on a string for a while (I allowed it) while he decided whether to move it forward (he knew I wanted to). Anyway, it still hurts!! And I’m still deluding myself that somehow he’ll take this time and come to value our relationship and want it back.
Serena
Sorry you had such a prick but at least you didn’t totally cave into his madness.
Asking how he should introduce you? WTF? If anyone had said that to me I’d have said how ’bout hood ornament or the chick who shags you ’cause you’re too ugly for anyone else – trust me these guys need to be harshed out and sent packing pronto.
Get really selfish to protect yourself – splurge on some new lipstick, lingerie or perfume – have a date with you!
In the future to avoid this BS with males I intend to be fully upfront with men asking straight out: Have you got a girlfriend or any loose ends? Is this a friendship club thing, fuck buddy or friends with benefits thing? Or are you a real man who is a straight up heterosexual interested in me for a real relationship who doesn’t blow hot and cold?
I know it sounds a bit full on but I just can’t be bothered with all the crap anymore of what is supposed to pass for male interest and listening to my girlfriends and the misery they experience with the men in their lives just hardens my resolve.
Hi ladies, many thanks for reading this message.
I am a writer for Marie Claire magazine and I’m working on a feature on women whose partners left a wife/girlfriend to be with them.
It doesn’t matter if you’re still with the man in question – a variety of experiences is expected (and welcomed!)
The piece will be very positive and non-judgmental, and will comprise a short telephone interview. You will get the opportunity to take part in a photo shoot with of the magazine’s top photographers.
If you, or anyone you know, has been in this situation, I’d love to hear from you. Please email me at caroline.hedley@gmail.com. Thanks in advance!
Serena, your post reminded me of bizarre conversations with my ex. He was talking about moving and how he would bring me with him or buy me a car so I could come visit. Then he turned on me one day and said that I could not control him if he wanted to move aweay. Then he would joke about my cooking and how he should marry me and then would remind me it was just a joke and not to get ahead of myself. He would talk about the future and when he said things were not going well I would suggest we not see each other anymore and he would say we should work at it, only to suddenly dump me. When I got upset he said it was ridiculous because we had never been together that long or seriously. I I met everyone in his life, he never met anyone on mine. The messages were constantly mixed.
@Butterfly — On your question about the increasingly degrading sexual stuff — it’s part of the pattern for some of these guys. They are very good at “grooming” their victims for further abuse and humiliation. They introduce things (porn, explicit sex talk, other women, and so forth) gradually. The shock wears off, we normalize it in our minds, and then they take the next step.
@Snook, thanks for your response!! Your response to “How should I introduce you?†made me laugh!! Actually after giving him a ration of sh** about insulting me with this insane question, I figured the bizarre question needed to be met with a bizarre response. I said, “Why don’t you introduce me as your cousin?†He was stunned!! and responded, “Oh no, no, I couldn’t do that!†I think he saw the insanity of his juvenile question if only for a moment. Anyway, as I reflect on this relationship I realize that he was constantly defining and verbalizing how I felt about him without even asking me!! Talk about bass ackwards!! After the first month he said, “You call me more than I call you, you know.†This wasn’t AT ALL the case and I knew it. It went on to “You miss me more than I miss you†and “you invested more than I invested†onto the final end of it because as he put it, “you will develop more feelings for me and mine will stay the same!†WTF is right!! How did he presume to be able to define my feelings or my investment in him without asking me??!! Ours wasn’t a F-buddy thing. He even slept with me without sex on occasion to as he said, “prove that he wasn’t just with me for the sex.†He knew I’d have none of that from the start and he knew I’d never continue in that context at the end as well as not continuing as friends. Although I didn’t totally cave over his madness, I do hurt and miss the relationship (I notice I wrote miss the relationship, not the man) although I’m really not sure why. Maybe at some level subconsciously it was an intellectual challenge to outsmart him and beat him at his own game in which case, I’ve got an issue too!! I don’t know, I’m still figuring it out and I still hurt deeply!! There’s other bizarre twists and turns in this and it’s so therapeutic to post it to the board here and get responses. Thank you. Your response is empowering to me!!
@Butterfly and Snook: What’s the deal with the “straight up heterosexual†question? Do these guys tend to have alternative sexual desires too?? Butterfly, you alluded to this in your most recent post. I’m interested due to experiencing a couple of red flags in that area although nothing really concrete.
@Dazed and Confused, the constant barrage of mixed signals are enough to daze and confuse anyone, especially when they’re rapid fire and coming at short intervals!! I really think in the case of my EUM it was more coming from his twisted thinking than orchestrated, although I think some was orchestrated. Here’s one for the books, he spends his last week with me 24/7 before his move. We’re walking around town on his last day and he looks at a company and says, “we should look that up on the internet when we get home (my note: ‘when we get home’ not ‘when we get to your house’ hmmm, interesting) because I could probably get a job there.†The next morning he leaves after spending this intimate, connected, contented and passionate week with me and says, “I’ll call you when I’m on my way back.†I thought he was kidding and responded, “No, you’ll call me when you get there,†which he did. BUT. . . his intent all along was to discontinue the relationship upon moving even though its within driving distance to continue. I guess such is the case with an EUM!! Apparently they’re used to just flipping a switch and denying or squashing their emotions or who knows. It did continue after he left but with more bizarre pushey, pulley behavior and mixed signals. I know he’s had difficulty separating emotionally from the relationship. I think it’s because he let his emotions go in this knowing that his get out of jai free card was the move. He even said that he thinks the reason it developed to the level emotionally that it did was because we knew he might be moving!! Figure that one out if you can. I can’t??!!
@ Kissie – “you have to met MY standards and meet MY criteria, b/c I AM the catch, not you…ME!” That is so cool, can i still that line? 😉
I was in an online relationship with a guy for 6 months. We talked on the phone for 4 or 5 hours each night (3 times a week). Sometimes we talk on night and left our cells on ’til morning. He was so sweet and says “I love you” all the time. But the last 4 weeks I noticed he wouldn’t take my calls on Sundays nights… even at midnight he wouldn’t pick up. So Sundays must be his “other chic day” and the other 6 days my day. Aint gonna cut it buddy! So 3 days ago I called and dumped him via voice mail. He hasn’t even bothered to call me since & I sure as hell ain’t call him again. He’s not the only badass in this relationship! End, Ovaaa, C ya!!! Don’t let the door slam ya! lol
Snook,
In your message to Leonine, you list a few of your “deal breakers”. I think those are what I call boundaries, and they are immensely powerful. They also dramatically increase safety.
But I am a bit surprised that you would work so hard to “tone down” a bozo’s sexual stuff, if he didn’t measure up to be an intimate partner candidate. I mean, if you have a dodgy bozo buzzing around, how is a good man going to know you aren’t dodgy, too? If you keep practicing putting up with inappropriate shenanigans, doesn’t that make acting straight arrow and demanding straight arrow from your partner, well, tougher?
Any dude hanging around, that brings up sexual topics regularly – isn’t there for the friendship. As long as this bozo hangs around, he acts like “good guy” repellent. And he keeps your tolerance of unsuitable behavior at a “high” level.
Where I keep getting stuck – As much as I understand that my ex was terribly EU – there were two major contradictions to him that made it hard for me to grasp while in the relationship and no easier now that I’m out and being haunted by the past 6 years. So on the one hand, my ex has a gentle demeanour, he’s playful, light hearted, and physically affectionate. On the other hand, once there is an issue that requires him to give of himself emotionally – he checks out. In a conversation he goes silent, he avoids discussing things, he will spend his time doing other things like spending hours at the gym, he will brush off my opinions, tell me I too sensitive or plain tell me that he can’t deal with it. He makes meager attempts, very meager and says “i don’t what to do”. Towards the end of the relationship he became cold, viscious, bold face lying, and deceitful.
That was a side of him, I never saw before, and that was in response to taking a step back from the relationship – i spent the whole time putting his needs first, I had to fight against ex girlfriends (he has no boundaries) who were trying to ruin things (whom he defended), his mother who is a manipulating wench, his crazy family who wanted to use him and him to their own ends, his female friends who were jealous of our relationship and many many other goodies. The one and only time I said, enough I have lost myself in this relationship, and my needs are not being met – he basically said eff you.
Within a month of taking some time to think through my issues he was off and running with some other chick and lying to my face about it. He wanted me to come to his cousin’s wedding and pose in family photos while he had begun a relationship with someone else. And said I was selfish when i declined!
I can’t seem to reconcile his inability to try and change what I had pointed out for years – i guess i can’t accept that I gave my all, to the point i almost had a nervous breakdown (doctors prescribing medication and all) while he never really really tried to emotionally connect with me. I can’t accept it – I keep feeling like I failed – how could I love him with everything I had – only to have him hook up with some other chic?
Cece I understand how you feel, your ex sounds very much like mine and I too have spent 6 years on him.
I think that you have answered your own question though, you said ‘putting his needs first’ and that when you told him that your needs were not being met, he changed.
That’s it in a nutshell, as long as you are there to serve them, they will be sweetness and light, as soon as you make any emotional demand on them, they can change quite dramatically.
It was the same for me, all was light hearted and fun (and on his terms of course) until I needed support from him. My parents were sick, they live in the same country as him (it was a LDR) I came to visit them but stayed with him. He ‘jokingly’ told a friend, ‘I’m fed up, she’s here for them not me’ Well ha ha, it wasn’t really a joke, his behaviour changed and he became cold, vicious, and mean, and shortly after we split up. He was in the arms of his next woman within minutes. I couldn’t understand what had gone wrong, after all I loved him so much.
It’s the pattern, serve them above all others and you’re OK, suggest things that they want to do too, and you’re OK, make ‘demands’ and they are off. There is always another woman around for them to seduce, and the pattern will play out again.
I understand the feeling of failure, I’ve spent years trying to prove that I’m better than my replacement and just recently have started to realise that I’m certainly better off than her. Now I see the pattern emerging again, she’s making demands on him, he’s backing off and has her replacement lined up. You didn’t succeed in breaking the pattern, the next one is unlikely to either, only he can change it, and he is unlikely to, it works for him.
Our failure was to protect ourselves enough, don’t know about you but though I can see this, I’m still struggling to disconnect emotionally. Others on this site have succeeded with time so I hope you get there too.
@cece you sure you’re not me?
Sounds very familiar apart from a couple of fine details. Please read NML’s book … seriously … your answers are in there and they have the ring of truth, a good truth with no punches held, and possibly an uncomfortable truth because what you have to deal with is YOU, not this idiot who loves all the drama around him and can’t function without a veritable shitstorm.
As with posts above, my take is to stop trying to reconcile it – you never will, end of, because you are not one of these damaged little men. Don’t feel bad that he was with the other girl …
When I had all this in the properly terminal phase I also got “I hoped you’d never find out about it”. I found out a bit about her and oh man is she an emotional wreckage – very needy, very clingy … he always used to say “thanks for being sane” and said that normally he attracts very unstable types. Think of it this way – YOU win. You just can’t see it yet.
Read the book honey 🙂 ~hugs~
@Snook etc: Well I am adventurous in my own right but it was the gradual introduction thing for sure, more than I was happy to have, and looking back even the way that they were introduced were … weird. One time he was whining “I don’t know what I want” and I tried to end things, felt so bad, contacted him back and was a little taken aback that he seemed to have just calmly gone to sleep after much crying and being sad – hindsight tells me now, with THIS information, that he was just pushing to see.
The only mistake was believing “I love you”, “I need you” etc etc – these are normal human failings and none of us should beat ourselves up over these men who have no idea at all what it means.
Getting that point (thank you Karen!!!!!) is a very key step.
@cece (and sadthing)
“on the one hand, my ex has a gentle demeanour, he’s playful, light hearted, and physically affectionate. On the other hand, once there is an issue that requires him to give of himself emotionally – he checks out. In a conversation he goes silent, he avoids discussing things†This could have been written to describe my exEUM. Mine would also make meagre attempts, but his line was “I don’t know what you’re looking forâ€, or “I’m sweating here, can you cut me some slack?†It’s like they always try to turn it back to *them* even when we are talking about *our* feelings and opinions. As if any negative feeling or dis-satisfaction we have about the relationship is a direct attack on them. I would actually have to say to mine “I am trying to tell you about my feeling_______ here, and you are just talking about being uncomfortable yourself– could you please respond to what I’m trying to convey?†Sometimes that would work, sometimes it didn’t, but it was like I had to teach him how to respond to how someone else was feeling! And my exEUM is in his late 40’s – I have no idea how he got through life without even a basic understanding of responding to others’ feelings. Like you, I tried to figure out what I was doing wrong. But as many others have said, it’s not us that’s the problem, it’s them, they are unable to feel like we do. I am reading “Women who Love too Much†by Robin Norwood, and she suggests we like to blame ourselves for failed relationships, because then we have hope that *we* can change, and things will get better. But if *he* has some problem (like addiction or EU) then the changing has to come from him.
Cece, you said “I can’t accept it – I keep feeling like I failed†– but you said *he* didn’t change what *you* pointed out for years. I find people don’t truly change as a result of someone else just pointing something out to them. They change because they have developed insight into a problem they have that interferes with their life somehow and that motivates them to change. I don’t think many EU men have this kind of insight.
Sadthing, you said “I’m still struggling to disconnect emotionally. Others on this site have succeeded with time so I hope you get there too.†Me too. It’s one thing to realize all this information about the EUM, and another completely to get your emotions caught up!!!
@Butterfly
I’m still planning to read NML’s book once I am finished WWLTM, as you suggested. Thanks for responding to my earlier post – you are always so encouraging and helpful. “The only mistake was believing “I love youâ€, “I need you†etc etc – these are normal human failings and none of us should beat ourselves up over these men who have no idea at all what it means.†– I am still trying to understand why I believed him saying these things, when my gut told me he was after a FWB situation. BTW Butterfly, how long have you been NC? You sound like you are much further along in your understanding than me (I am day 16).
Hi Im felling a bit down today and could realy use some suport.Im felling sad and lonely today and I miss having a bf.Sometimes I think I will never find one.And more I fell like that more I miss my EUM,anyway at least now I can see the conection so I can prevent myself from going after him.I think I just wanted to let it out and hear some words of encouragement.
@Anusha,
I’m sorry to hear you are feeling down today. I know what it’s like to feel sad and lonely and missing the EUM. You have given really good advice to people on here, and it sounds like you are making great progress – that’s something to feel good about! Is there something you can do for yourself today – something that brings you joy and has nothing to do with the EUM or even men in general? There will be plenty of time for a bf later, when the right one comes along.
I send you a cyber hug (((((((((((((Anusha))))))))))))) and I will send positive thoughts your way…. I hope your day gets better. Hang in there!!!!!
Anusha, (this is kind of long, and maybe I’m writing more for me than I realize! 😉 )
Before I found this site, I used to try “no contact” on my own and then I’d end up breaking it after a few days or a week or so (or sometimes he broke it) because I just missed having him to e-mail or tell about my day, but everytime I went back, I realized that things were the same, he was still unavailable, and my needs were never going to be met through this person no matter how many different words he used with me. His actions never backed up his words. I have been away from him mainly since December ’08, but saw him once in February, and have not seen him again since then, and there really hasn’t been a day gone by where I don’t think about him maybe a little and wish things had been different, but I sit on my hands, I go work out a little, take my dogs for a walk, make my teenaged sons a nice meal (which I don’t do all the time :)…. just try to do anything to remind myself that I am better off without this guy in my life. I was sad and lonely even when I was with him (interspersed with nice moments), but mainly sad because it wasn’t a full relationship with both people having both feet in.
We deserve a full relationship, and I know from reading your posts that you want to work on Y-O-U so that you can be ready for the kind of relationship that we all long for. I want that, too! I think I still have some fear that I’m not good enough because the jerk really turned everything around on me and tried to make me feel like I was the crazy one for wanting “more.”
I hope you can remember why you need to move on, and this weekend do something spectacular to celebrate yourself! Celebrate that you’ve found this site and become very wise and are now on a better path.
I love reading about everyone’s journey here.
Today, after I finish work (I teach music privately), I’m going to go out and buy myself an outfit and wear it to church tonight where I’ll be playing with my church band. I’m just doing it because I don’t spend money on myself very often, but I noticed I’ve let myself get a little bit dumpy looking! LOL! I’m not ugly, but I’m not all girly girl pretty, either, and I’m tall and big (not super fat, just kind of big… 5 ft. 8, 175 pounds) and I never feel like I look good, so I’m going to actually put some effort into it today. There are no guys available at church, but I just feel like looking nice today just for me!
The weekends are the hardest for me because my sons go to their dad’s house on Sat. and Sun. and that is when I am alone (whereas my entire work week is very busy), so when I first did “no contact” for real, I would take a bath, groom myself, make a nice meal for myself, read everything over and over on this site so that I’d never go back to the A.C. , get a good book and try to bask in my newfound “me” time.
I hope you find some greatness to dwell on this weekend, and from what I can tell, your man wasn’t/isn’t so great.
Remember you’re an amazing woman! You can get through this!
@meanttobehappy – I dunno how long I am into NC because I don’t WANT to keep tabs on how long. To me (and this is just my own personal view) anyone who can tell you it is day 63 is keeping tabs and keeping invested by doing so. I’ve thought about him all day, and I do mean all day, but it’s like a more see-through ghost, or lemonade with the fizz going out more and more. Mainly what I have thought today is how much I’d love to tell him, with feeling, to f*** off. I realise this is just another stage in the process so I am shrugging it off.
@Anusha I feel like that too but cheer up chicken, just because you feel something does not make it true. The fact you’ve seen a connection is a great thing. Do something nice – get in touch with a friend, watch a comedy you like (not anything about romance!!!) or buy yourself a new book. Tonight I am not going out, I intend to read and just chill out doing girly things/housey things and reading voraciously!
Thank you very much for all your kind words and suport 🙂 I will try doing something to cheer me up.I never thought I could be where Im now,I couldnt go a week without contacting my EUM and now Im on week 12 of NC!!!!! For more I was unhappy and saw that he was wrong for me I just couldnt get away from him but now I finaly could do that I cant just waist it by contacting him.I tried dating to help out on my felling lonely and to help me to forget my EUM faster but didnt turn out much good.I think maybe I should take a time away from romance,it always has been my main concern since I was 14 or so but it isnt working.I mean I want to find a nice guy and have a good relationship and I have been pursing it so much but the results so far werent much good.I think is like NML says,if you look for a relationship out of desperation and loneliness the result wont be good.Is hard for me to take a time away from relationships because is something I realy want but I think maybe I need that.I think I need to sort myself first to be able to get a good relationship.
@Meant to be Happy-Thanks for the cyber hug and to remind me that my main concern now should be me and not a bf.
@lisa-Thank you for sharing your story,you are on the right track.I will concetrate on taking more care of me from now on.
@Butterfly-Thanks for your sugestions,I will give them a try.Btw congratulations for had deleted your ex from messenger,I bet you fell much better now.
@Anusha that was meant not me 🙂 I deleted monkey face before I even started NC – and then forgot that I had deleted him already and had a surprise when he wasn’t there to delete! I attribute that to adjusting to a new country more than planning though 🙂
thank you butterfly, meant to be happy, and sadthing I hope I didn’t miss anybody. I appreciate all the feedback, it has been a hard hard week – sending me right back to 6 months ago. I like many others on this blog just have to work on accepting without trying to figure it out – there is no easy answer. I’m analytical by nature – too analytical and I have a habit of lying awake at night trying to figure things out – i think that i forced myself to accept it, but it was superficial acceptance and that is why i am back to square one.
It’s not as easy as saying he’s an a**h**le because he is and he isn’t – he cried the other day when I was having a meltdown on the phone. Although he hasn’t bothered to call me back to see how I have been doing since then. It’s not in him – it’s something he has to learn – if willing – and he has to learn it on his own to paraphrase Meant to be Happy. He has learned other things, he told me so and he told me that he attributes not letting his mom manipulate him to me.
Sad thing, you were treated horribly! I’m sorry – it is clear that regardless of the fact that you had to help your family his needs came first – period. Similar on my end, regardless of the fact that I had drained myself emotionally and physically – it was not acceptable for me to work on me. Even when I was having mental breakdowns crying for hours and hours, not eating, not sleeping, not working just lying in bed – he shed a little remorse, gave me a mini pep talk and left to see his other women and from time to time didn’t come back home till the next day. His needs came first! He can’t see that because he can’t really really see beyond his own needs when it comes to me. This is not the case with his family – only me!
@lisa: “he cried the other day when I was having a meltdown on the phone. Although he hasn’t bothered to call me back to see how I have been doing since then.”
This speaks volumes. Did you call him or did he call you?
He called me after I texted him twice – and asking why he had not bothered to respond to me. I was in pieces on the phone – he said that he felt responsible and asked me to give up on myself to fight.
That was tues or wed ….
Ah honey … NC only works if you stick with it … when you break it you break your heart all over again. ~hugs~
He ain’t worth it. Saying he feels responsible, crying … these are all the passive aggressive methods these fools use to absolve themselves, but actions really do speak louder than words. If he had the capacity to care, if he was worth it, he’d have been in touch right away. As it is, he has no idea what to do or say because he is a frightened little boy inside.
You deserve better, we all do.
Thank you butterfly, you’re right we all deserve better.
@Butterfly-Sorry for had confused meant’s post with yours.I read so many posts a day that I get confused with the names lol
I know we have all acknowledged our EUM’s bad relationship behaviour, and how they can sometimes be sweet or charming to get what they want, but at the end of the day they hurt us as they are not capable of a fully committed, both-feet-in relationship. I am reflecting on my ex-EUM/MM’s behaviour outside of our relationship though, and it is confusing me. I know some of my ex-EUM’s work colleagues and almost all of them say how hard-working he is, how he’d do anything for anyone, how many hours he spends at the office, that he’s “awesome†and “helpfulâ€. Only one person said “Trying to get something out of ____ is like extracting teeth†– everyone else says how great he is. So now I’m starting to doubt my judgement of him – maybe I have been too harsh? How can he be this well liked if he’s an AC? Maybe he’s not an AC, just an EUM? But then again, he’s a MM, so of course no good for me!!!
@Anusha – no worries for confusing my post with Butterfly – I know it’s hard to keep track sometimes – but thanks for your encouragement to delete my EUM from messenger, you were very helpful in getting me to that point (as was Butterfly).
I had an ex who would do anything for anyone (this is one I haven’t even started on), and always seemed to have another women he was definitely not sleeping with but who plumped up his ego – eventually they would meet me and like me and the moment that they did like me he was done with them.
Please remember though, if it is something he is doing for himself then his behaviour will be TOTALLY DIFFERENT and you should not be linking yourself in this way and asking and justifying – deep down you know the truth, allow yourself to accept it and to work out not about him and were you too harsh etc etc etc … he is MARRIED he is happy to cheat on a woman who made a commitment to him (irrespective of whether or not she is any good herself) and he is married he is already cheating etc etc etc etc. Free yourself of this rubbish!!!
Everyone thinks my ex-ass is “awesome” etc too apart from the women he has pissed about who had more sense than to go back, the people who chose whether or not they carried on employing him … need I say more? Who is the person who said trying to get something is like pulling teeth? Maybe here’s some food for thought?
Hi Butterfly,
The ‘pulling teeth” comment came from someone who has known him for a long time. One time when the AC left a social event we were all at because someone put on a sports event on the TV and he didn’t like it, this person also said – “typical” that he wouldn’t stay. I guess I should listen to this person’s opinions! Come to think of it, my brother – who usually says the AC is a “nice guy” – once mentioned that the AC liked to get acknowledgment/praise a lot at work. Maybe he just “goes the extra mile” for people so that he gets an ego stroke?
Butterfly, I hope you’re having a great evening in – thanks again for your responses. I’m off to read some more Robin Norwood and stop obsessing about the AC. Cheers!
@ Anusha,
What are you doing to even out the good days and bad days? (I mean, brighten up the sad days! Leave the good days the heck alone!)
You might consider a private journal, something with more depth than the tweets you would put in a diary, something that you don’t plan to show anyone in this life time. You might tag each entry, with date, amount of energy (degree of depression!), brigthness of mood, interest in being with other people, and whether you enjoined interacting with others – make a habit of noting each of these. Use a 1 to 10 or 1 to 5 scale. OK, if you *have to*, include how much you miss the relationship and how much leaving him affects your day – but be warned. Acknowledging how much you miss him, recording how painful and burdened you are, tends to bind us back to him, and disrupts healing a bit. Then start jotting down the biggest two or three thoughts at that moment.
A daily journal gives you something to look back at and notice whether the days are getting brighter or not, trends in your thinking, changes in how you view yourself, your home, and your life. The discipline of checking your feelings and making a subjective estimate gives you a bit more understanding – and control! – of your emotions and the changes in your life.
Plus, making a journal entry is a quiet time. By looking at the thoughts swirling, and acknowledging the top two or three, you may find the noise level of your thoughts start to drop, and you may find some healing quiet time. The journal you write might be one map from here to a healthy and happy place.
Luck!
@cece thanks, actually his behaviour got more and more weird after that comment, I know now that he was pushing me to finish it because he was in too deep and didn’t want the responsibility of a real relationship.
Yours situation sounds even more horrible though, what sort of man ignores you when you are so distressed – and then tells you he feels responsible – but does absolutely nothing about it!!!
It really is all about them, I sometimes think they get a little power kick out of thinking that they can affect someone else so much. Don’t think it matters if it’s a positive or negative effect, anything will do.
You said he’s not like this with his family, only you. Please don’t see this as your failing, he has learned over his whole life how to maintain whatever relationship he needs with his family, and we all tend to have an alloted role to play in our families. My AC was the last surviving child in a large family, the one after him died early, so he became the golden child to all his siblings – and carries that sense of entitlement into the outside world.
In my experience it’s only in personal relationships that their true character comes out so the sense of entitlement becomes the selfish ‘me first, me second, me third etc’ if you’re very lucky you might get onto the list from time to time, BUT only when they deign to put you on it, not when you need some support or attention.
Sorry he was so mean when you needed support, but you know that he’s that way. I told mine he has no heart, that a rock would have more feelings than him, and he agreed with ‘I’m different’ too right!
I think, ladies, we are heading back into the territory of whether someone is emotionally unavailable or is narcissistic. If you continue to be with/think about/are hung up on a narcissist this is a one way ticket to continued misery. End it.
I do find this site extremely useful but I also find it very dismaying that some people seem to be using it to KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS MAN. Please ask yourselves, when we are trying to support each other, are we helping or are we continuing our “need to give” behaviours which screw us up in the first place by enabling someone else and thereby being able to continue ourselves talking about “him”.
It ain’t about the various “hims” – it’s about all of us – and I do worry that too much emphasis goes onto the guys. I am guilty of this myself and certainly in the early days people really need to vent but at the end of the day there is only the work we can do on ourselves never to accept/normalise this kind of abnormal manipulation etc again.
Sorry to double post but I just realised something – hey, meant … you know what you should be reading? A book you like … anything. Your own personal taste in good literature. Or maybe the papers. Or a website about how to grow your own chili peppers. Whatever floats your boat because you need time off this thing, away from the search for answers and clues. Buy yourself a load of strawberries and enjoy them warm in the sunshine (maybe without the cream and sugar). Brush your hair till it shines. Drive somewhere beautiful listening to music that makes you happy. Anything … anything … that connects you to you and not to the hurt you feel.
The reason I say this is because (and this is leading on from the post above anyway) obsessing is abnormal behaviour and you are continuing to normalise what is not healthy if that’s all you do without you time. Yes it is good to understand but you have to balance it out with … deep breath … life.
Hugs x
@sadthing-you say your’s agreed with you when you said he had no heart.During one disagreement I told mine he was “cold,arrogant and emotionless.”His reply was “You are right,I am cold”.What’s the saying here on the posts-If he tells you something about himself,believe it!!If I think of the times he told me he didn’t get attached to people,had committment issues(had a terrible childhood-father left,drug addiction for many years),told me he didn’t deserve me,etc etc..if I had only seen those as red flags then.But I just thought he was being hard on himself and of course rushed to reassure him how wonderful he was.
Of course I find it interesting that he couldn’t give me any of that committment,attachment etc,but blossomed under all my attention,spoiling etc.BUT…he can be committed and dedicated and loyal to the new love of his life to the extent he could just cut me out without even looking backwards after 3 years.What is so special about HER??Another thing I’ve just noticed-he would never ever pay me any compliments.If I sent him a photo and he never commented,I would say “Didn’t you like the picture?”And he would say “Did I say I never liked it?”-a sort of twisted,backhanded acknowledgement,but that was that.Something I found very very odd,and I have never come across this before-he never used my name.In 3 years he called me by my name twice.Once was when he texted me to say “goodbye,it’s over”.And it wasn’t a case of “darling” or something similar instead as I called him,he never referred to me as anything.When I told him it bothered me,he never commented,or changed.It was almost a way of “humiliating” me,or keeping me in my place,now when I think back on it.
I know what and who he is,really.My logical mind tells me I am better off without him,And I am doing better than I was a few weeks ago.It’s just on lonely days when I allow myself to think just a liitle bit too long about it all,to go to the places which still hurt that I wonder why I should still feel twinges of pain when he is as happy as a lark.And the infuriating thing is that I did nothing wrong to him…I loved,I gave I supported I was loyal…it was just not enough.
I AM progressing,trying to look after myself,going to my therapist,spoiling myself.It’s just those moments where I realise that I am never going to see or speak to him ever again- the habit of the text or phone call or visit is still being broken.Or maybe more the annoyance with myself that he really wasn’t who I thought he was,and I was so blinded,that I didn’t have the savvy to see him for what he is-a parasite who took advantage of my generous,kind nature.I feel a fool for being “conned”.In hindsight,his actions should have been screaming warning bells in my head..guess my pride and ego is wounded.Two things which can be restored though!!:).
Thanks for reading my vent.I know everyone posting here really does understand…Just a difficult day today.
Hi Serena
Re the straight up heterosexual male thing – I meant that if a male is really interested in you he will chase and pursue and keep on pursuing – that his desire for you just isn’t physical but encompasses all aspects of you. For myself I cannot get interested in a male unless I know for sure that he finds my brain engaging and that I adore the way his brain works too.
Brad
I take your point about inappropriate comments but sometimes I am rather earthy myself but in a general way. When I found out that he was only interested in doing the friend thing I immediately countered with “OK, that’s cool at least I’m free to meet someone else.” When I related this to a girlfriend she said that he would not have liked hearing that and I said that it was too bad as his window of opportunity had passed.
Maybe it’s that his guy is super smart and I enjoy his company on a intellectual level. I’m not really actively looking for anyone – I never do -but if a male came into my orbit that ticks all the boxes for a relationship this friend would have to take a back seat in my life as I would only ever see him in the presence of my beloved. This guy works odd hours so I only see him sporadically anyway and only if the planets are in the right places for me (sarcasm).
I very much enjoy your male perspective on relationships and have visited your site a number of times for a read.
@Butterfly
Yes, you are right, we need to think about our own interests and what makes us happy. In reading “Women Who Love too Much†(I am 2/3 through it) I am coming to realize this, too. Yes, I am still looking for answers to this whole EUM situation I put myself in, but I feel I need to understand myself in general as well – I do have a lot of the characteristics and behaviours of the women Robin Norwood writes about. I seriously need to develop some boundaries, too, as I tend to let people “walk all over me†and I have been looking at my relationships with friends, too – some of them are EU, I now realize. For some reason, people who are not entirely emotionally happy/healthy are the friends I end up with – perhaps they like the fact I’m a good listener, and will allow them to talk about themselves for hours. Perhaps I am EU myself, as many of us here may be. I rarely talk about my own (significant) issues with friends, and it has actually been strange to write about myself on here – not what I’m used to at all!!! But because it’s anonymous, and others on here are going through some of the same things I am, and because of the support I have received, I have felt OK to actually talk about myself. Yes, I am still obsessing about him, and I know that’s abnormal. But I now realize I have been addicted to the relationship with him, and I need to recover from that.
You are right, I need to read something for pleasure, not just to find answers about *him*. I love music, but so does he, and I have been consciously trying to listen to music that I love, but that I don’t associate with my ex EUM. I am also taking dance classes and I went for a massage last week, which was amazing. It’s inspiring to hear that *you* have been taking care of yourself too, by going to the gym, enjoying a beautiful day, etc. Each day gets better as far as the yearning to hear from him and the habit of thinking about him. I love your analogy of the lemonade with the fizz going out! My plan for today is to get rid of some clutter around the house (*other* kinds of rubbish that I need to get rid of!).
Thanks again for your help and support Butterfly, and everyone else on here. I appreciate it more than you will ever know.
Obsessing really isn’t abnormal; it’s just unhealthy. It’s very normal in a grief process to want to do it. Looking for answers is common in any type of grief situation. But the realization does have to come one day that we probably won’t get any answers, even if we replay our relationship a million times, so it has to stop. It’s tough. The focus does have to be on ourselves because we are the most important person in our lives. Most of the time, after the relationship with an EUM is over, we intellectually know that this person could never make us as happy. We just have to have high enough self-esteem to believe we deserve much happiness in our lives, so working on self-esteem is very important. If we had really high self-esteem, I don’t think we’d be in these situations.
@Jupiter
Thanks for noting that obsessing is part of the grieving process. I agree we need to work on self-esteem issues to increase our resilience and our ability to avoid future EU relationships with others and with ourselves.
Just wanted to let you know that one of your earlier comments to me (when I went by “not meant to beâ€) really stuck with me, and continues to help keep me NC. On the day I broke up with my ex-MM you asked “Really, what are you getting out of this situation? Less than nothing.†And you are sooo right. Less than nothing because it detracts from my happiness, instead of enhancing it in any lasting way. You wrote that note at just the time I needed it (just before *the* break-up phone call). It was awesome!
@Snook — Thanks for the clarification. I just didn’t know if there was another common oddity in the behavioral aspects of EUM. It is so strange to me that this relationship still has me holding onto hope that he’ll look in the mirror and transform. I never thought I could change him. I just thought he was at a point in mid-life where he was coming to recognize his issues and was wanting to change. There were things he said that led me to believe this. During our break-up conversations (there were 3 after his move and he came back every time) he never pointed to anything about me or the relationship as the cause. It was always “what if six months down the road” and “I just have a gut feeling” and “I don’t know if I’m making the right decision” and “I’ve been stressing about this all the time” and “It’s not you, you’re awesome and I love you” yada, yada, yada, weird!! It’s been 4 weeks NC tomorrow. I know its killing him because of his need to maintain “friendships” with his exes. He takes pride in this. I always found it a bit odd but didn’t understand it until now!! His Harem!! At one point I almost said, “I refuse to become a member of the ‘I’ve dated ________ fan club!!'” and this was before I understood this EUM pattern. I think this is hard on me because I don’t have closure. It didn’t deteriorate and then end like a normal relationship. He pulled away at the peak of connection and intimacy with an expressed “I hope we both find a relationship just like this one that is long term.” WTF!! How do you get closure with something like this. I really want to contact him, get together face to face and tell him exactly how his bizarre behavior affected me. I know this will not be good for me though. Thanks again Snook. Today is a down day.
@Serena, sounds like this guy doesn’t have a clue of what it takes to make a relationship work. I hope you can find a way to turn today into a reflective day and learn something more about yourself.
@sadthing – thank you again for the kind words, my ex EUM word’s don’t match his actions. I have to keep reminding myself regardless of the reasons (a whole family of EU people – a very distant mother) it doesn’t make the pain hurt any less. I spent 6 years making excuses for his “shortcomings” taking on all the emotional labour in the relationship until I almost had a nervous breakdown – understanding the reasons didn’t help me then and won’t help me now. I need to find a way to move on – like many of us do! It’s difficult because what we know of EUM’s is familiar – now myself like many others have to start from scratch – with ourselves. I’ll be damned if I go running into the arms of the next guy just to help soothe (superficially) the pain – at 31 I will not be repeating this pattern in the next relationship, for now I know I’m not ready.
@ Jupiter, obsessing is part of the grieving process is true I agree, the time it takes depends a bit on the sort of person you are,.
Some are able to pick themselves up, understand that being attracted to these types is their problem and they need to focus on themselves, they don’t really need to understand why their ‘mates’ are like they are. Others need to understand what they were attracted to, and maybe why the person is like this BEFORE they can really believe that their sh*tty behaviour is nothing to do with them.
I belong in the second group, overly analytical maybe, but it’s taken me to understand my AC’s behaviour to realise that it has little to do with me. OK that I find him attractive in the face of his nonsense is something I need to work on, but I could never have done it without trying to understand what I’d been involved with.
We all have different journeys I guess, as long as we end up in the same place!
@ Serena, I so know what you’re saying, but forget closure, it just doesn’t happen with them. I’ve tried the ‘that’s it, it’s over’ speech several times but they never agree, leave you hanging with some variation on ‘ we’ll see in the future’ and the truth was that I wasn’t quite ready for total disconnection. Closure only comes when you decide to cut contact for real, with no more last connections of any sort. Sounds like you are doing this so hang in there.
@jupiter Yes I agree it is part of the grieving process – perhaps my meaning was unclear. There gets to a point, though, where going over and over about these men in detail is not what should be done.
Meant … music is damned tricky and was my major trigger for a long long time (it doesn’t matter if he likes music 🙂 )
@ Serena – amen re the harem crap. You get your closure knowing you are not part of that and never will be, closing the door and welding it shut (easier said than done, I know). As ever the case I might as well be reading what my ex said word for word – who feeds these idiots their lines? hugs
Serena… thanks for the message. What gets me about all this is exactly what NML’s post speaks to… I can’t even tell when this sort of thing is normal. I have no ideas if normal guys can talk about the future or if I set expectations too high and need to sit back and relax.
Either way my ex suddenly blew me off just like that, no mixed emotions, it was over and done with. Even after time passed and I broached the subject he told me to get over it it was done… after he had been talking long term. The only sign of mixed emotions was the continued rage he exhibits when I see him now as if he hates me. He certainly does not seem to have reached the point of simply not caring… he has gone from love to hate.
Either way it leaves me replaying the situation in my head, which is fruitless given that despite my attempts at reconciliation he has rudely told me where to go and get over it. Not sure how much more rejection I feel I need than that to get on with my life… it’s the sudden 24 hour turn around in emotions that leaves me baffled.
Thanks for all your support! I really need it and appreciate it right now!! This relationshp is unparalelled in my expereicne and I have nothing to reference to personally. Therefore, the validation of the experience coming from all of you is so healing!
@cece, I don’t think he had a clue as to what it takes to grow a relationship either! His thoughts pertaining to relationships seemed so juvenile at times.
@sadthing, I belong in the analytical group too with a need to understand what I was involved with before I move on. Regarding closure, after our last conversation 4 weeks ago he’s stayed away which is unusual in his pattern. In reality, I’m hoping that he’s miserable in himself and that he’s finally facing himself full on in the mirror. It’s likley wishful thinking on my part as he’s likely relying on his harem to support him through this and finding a new main shag. Who knows!! But at some point when I’m further detached emotionally I really want to confront him face to face and clearly communicate the impact of his behavior on me whether he cares or not. He fancies himself as an exemplar of respect. I kid you not!!
@butterfly, the harem thing is apparently so typical. Shortly before his move, I found a card written to him from a woman that said, “Thank you for being the special and kind person you are. I am blessed to have you in my life. Our time together has certainly been a bit strange, but I feel honored to be in your circle and spend time with you.” I’d say this is a classic example! YUCK!! You’re right, who feeds these lines or conducts the course “Harem Building 101.” What’s more is that every woman who sucks into this crap and pours adulation on these men feeds their sickness.
@ dazedandconfused — I completely empathize with you. What you experienced is not normal and has left you in the quandry of going from 100km per hour to a screeching halt never having applied the brakes. He slammed his foot on the brakes and its left you jolted. And to top it off, he doesn’t even have the dignity to explain why, he just blows you off, rejects you, and hurts you again. Who does that!! It’s NORMAL that you feel jolted and its NORMAL that you wonder why he did this to you because you would never engage in that behavior toward someone else. It NOT NORMAL that people end relationships this way, not people with any dignity anyway. And this guy is devoid in that department. You may never be able to completely figure it out because your brain doesn’t operate like his and thank God it doesn’t!! Anyway, here’s a tidbit that you may find helpful. From what I understand, EUM often bolt when they become emotionally attached at some level. And the level that they can take the attachment to is different for each one.
4 days of NC and it’s soooooooooooooooo freakin’ HARD!!! The online bf of 6 months has someone else on the side (although he denies it, the signs are all there – ie. not picking up the phone on certain nights, not calling, i always have to initiate the calls, not wanting to meet, etc). Four days ago I called and called and called and called some more and he wouldn’t pick up. So i left several voice mail messages breaking it off. Now I’m soooooooooooooo embarrassed that i acted like a looney I just wanna crawl in a cave and hide!!! And it’s been 4 days and he hasn’t even attempted to call me back. If I know he has someone else why can’t I move on???? 🙁
@Coffee –
it doesn’t sound like you acted like a looney to me – just like someone who was frustrated and fed up with his behaviour. Are you positive he has someone else and is not just “blowing hot and coldâ€? If you are truly starting NC, it is good that he hasn’t tried to contact you, as that would make it even more difficult to move on. It is hard to move on for anyone who has lost a relationship, no matter how unhealthy it was or who broke up with whom. You need time to grieve the relationship. If you are committed to NC, I suggest you read NML’s post on the “no contact rulesâ€, follow them, and most of all, take care of yourself. Yes, NC is “freakin’ hard†(I can’t believe I got past 2 weeks!) but it really helps to give you some objectivity. I find exercise helps a lot (I take dance classes), and also getting in touch with friends I haven’t spoken to for a while, but mostly whatever makes *you* happy and keeps you occupied. As you have read here in the comments, it’s all about taking care of you – you are worth having fulfilling relationships with others, and with *yourself*. Best of luck to you!
@sadthing and Serena: I am also the analytical type who needs to “process the evidence†to quote CSI.
In fact, I am thinking of getting into therapy to help with the analysis of my own behaviour and relationship patterns. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the type of therapist that is most likely to be effective in getting over relationship addiction to EUM’s? Psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, cognitive behavioural therapist? I just need a clue on where to start looking for the best person for the job. I definitely want a female.
@ Meant to be Happy –
You are on 2+ weeks of NC?? Wow, u are SO STRONGGG!!!!! *Huggiezz, proud of you!* I’m only into day 4 & so wanting to cave already!!! Somebody stop meeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!! I would feel ashamed if i called him, like a sucker who can’t take a hint! The fact that he hasn’t responsed to my voicemail in 4 days shows he no longer wants me. I don’t hate him and I’m not mad at him. He’s still a great guy and always will be. I wish him nothing but true happiness. Even though i’m hurting. I just want to make this pain go away. 🙁
To break up w/ him on voice mail, without a word back from him, that’s the hardest part…no closure, no nothing, just a sudden end… 🙁
Meant to be Happy
It makes me really happy that my comment stuck with you and helped you. These relationship situations are just so hard sometimes, and I take strength in many things that are said here and am glad that someone might find strength in what I’ve said. I’m going to find Codependent No More at my library and read it; I heard it’s a great read for people who find themselves in unsatisfying relationships.I need all the help I can get. Good luck to you.
@Meant to be Happy
I just read your last comment.
I think therapy is a great idea. I actually have been in therapy before, which helped me finally break it off. I will be starting again once I start graduate school and have mental health insurance again. They also have group therapy at the college I will be attending, and I plan on going.
From what I understand and the advice I have been given, the best therapy incorporates an eclectic mix of therapies (behavioral, cognitive, etc.) Depending on what insurance you’ll be using, you can find a therapist in their database, and they usually have short description of the therapy they use, their style, and what their specialties are. Some specialize in grief and relationship issues.
Truly, I wish you the best.
Thanks Jupiter
Have you done the group therapy before, and if so, how did you like it?
Best of luck in grad school – it’s a lot of work, but so worth it in the end (kind of like ending it with an EUM!!!)
I love this post NML. Letting women know it’s time to bring the focus back where it belongs!! 2nd month of NC and I feel really good. I decided not to focus on him and really worked on ME. There is no better feeling than loving yourself unconditionally, it literally changes all aspects of your life.
@ coffee – someone can stop you. Someone wiser, stronger and who cares about you and how you feel. Someone who will forgive you for your human frailties, will kick you up the arse and be tough with you, will take charge of you, will guide you intuitively. You have to let her though.
Her name is coffee.
@ Meant – you do not need a social worker sweetheart 🙂 Therapy might well be one of your answers, wish I could find a suitable therapist who speaks English.
@ Serena – yes I agree about the actual emotional attachment thing. What sparked galvanised me into purposeful action, what sparked made him run.
To all those who probably think I am being glib: spent most of last night crying after going on a date against my better judgement and feeling thoroughly crappy. I know that will pass, but every day is different (and although I will see this guy again it won’t be in a romantic sense, red flag!!! red flag!!!)
Hey, I broke the NCR about 3 weeks ago now. Really wish i hadn’t… as it took a toll on my current relationship. I with a fantastic guy, who gives 100%. He doesn’t play games and is honest with me, it’s really thrown me off after my last relationship.
My ex kept texting me offering me the world etc – and when i replied he couldn’t be bothered to make any form of effort despite keep saying it. Actions speak louder than words.
So, perhaps childishly, i played a little game. I told him i didn’t want him, he could NEVER have me again cos what he’d done to me made me beyond unavailable. I said how fabulous the guy i’m with now is… then I stopped texting last night and so far i’ve got three texts, all saying the EXACT things i want to hear.
Things he hasn’t given away from our private life, like things we did and said, pet names which only we understood. Things he didn’t try to recreate with the woman he cheated on me to be with, or hasn’t told his new gf.
I don’t know if i’m being harsh, but it makes me wonder why he’s recreating these things y’know?
Either way, reading this page has made a huge difference to me. And i’m certaintly not going to keep going around in circles with him any longer. I wanted to reply, cos he sounds like the man i love, but really… i fell for a fantasy man and i deserve better than being blamed for all the bad he did! So back to the NCR and i’m sticking to it for good – because he will never change.
Thanks all 🙂
@Beinghappy,
That’s great you are with a fantastic guy now. Do you think your ex could be “telling you what you want to hear” to try to reel you back in? I don’t know your situation with the ex EUM, so can’t really comment, but it sounds like you have good insight and good for you for going back to NC!
@Butterfly
Sorry to hear you were feeling crappy. That’s great you picked up on red flags tho! I hope today is a better day for you. Hugs to you…
My only question is this. When I was with my ex EUM, I had asked him and he had told me about his past history with exes. From what he SAID, I am the only cross-country relationship he had (obvious unavailability). When he mentioned his exes, one of them lived down the block from him, more than half a decade later he met someone through a family member (also locational proximity) he admitted he was a dick to and they lasted only a couple of months, and then he met me. But the way he talks about them, it sounds like it was absolutely nothing like the way he treated me and i’m beginning to believe it. Is it true that our ex EUM’s once had real, lasting relationships and went sour on us or did my ex fill his history with helium?
This was the only question I ever had…After almost 1 full yr of NC I wish someone would please answer it.
@Being Happy,
Glad you hear you have met someone that you are happy with, and that this relationship is a positive one. It gives the rest of us hope.
Maybe, just maybe he is truly sorry about the way he treated you, and regrets the way he behaved in your relationship. Even if that were true, IMO, he is “a day late, and a dollar short.” Adults need to recognize that there are consequences to behavior-good and bad. He behaved badly towards you and your relationship and now the relationship is over. Even if he has changed (doubtful) he now has to face the consequences of the manner in which he treated you; you left the relationship AND you have found someone new that seems to genuinely care about you. You new man seems to be able to demonstrate that he cares about you. Don’t spend anymore time on someone that did not value you; spend your time on the person that does value you and what you bring to the relationship.
@Brad-Thank you for your sugestion 🙂 I tried doing a journal right after the break up but it didnt work much because it would be mainly about how much I missed him and how sad I was for the break up and so on.I liked your idea to put on it levels of emotional happiness,wanting to be with others and so on.I think that way realy goes to the point of what it should be and can show my progress.Right after the break up I was fine,I think is because I was so angry at him that I didnt realy got much sad or missed him.Then once the anger started to fade I got trough a low period and my dating experiences not working helped on that too.Since yesterday I started to fell better again.I have been reading the articles here again and that helped to put me back on track.Even though the yearning for him can get so strong sometimes,giving in to that would be like throwing away all the hard work I did until now.Plus I was always after him,pretty much beging him to talk to me or spend some time with me and now I chosed to love myself I just cant act like that anymore.I showed to him many times how important was for me to be around him(I was the one asking to get back together when we broke up before and the one who kept asking him to be friends) so I think I did my part with that already.Anyway 3 months NC today!!!!!!! That is what matters.
Something… I am a bit confused by what you wrote. You said he admitted to treating these other people poorly but then said he didn’t treat like he did you… he also said they only lasted a couple of months. Within a couple of months it’s really easy to keep up good courting behaviour. Was he with you longer than 2 months? My ex was great for the first 2 months… but over time he became dark, depressed… moody. I was just thinking about this before I read your message. He was so happy and bouncing around when he met me and now is this angry dark nasty person.
So even if you ex was “kind” to these other women, it’s very easy to keep that up for 2 months. Mine managed to live with a woman for 2 years, but left me after a matter of months. What did she do or not do that I didn’t? Each woman will accommodate different behaviour but he is the key element. My ex was with this woman for 2 years but guess what… it didn’t work out either. The point is… none of his relationships worked out and he didn’t display good behaviour with you. Generally as we mature we display better behaviour.
In my situation I have looked back and I have treated some people very badly in my past… however I have since apologized or it was short lived. These men, in my opinion, seem to display longer last negative character traits. I have blamed myself and thought maybe I was so awful and deserve to be treated the way my ex is treating me… generally normal people do not have the energy to expend torturing you, being mean to you… most people just move on. His behaviour is likely more ingrained in his personality, so it’s unlikely it came up over night and was just with you.
I am wondering something here that might be related.I do wonder if our standards triggers their bad behavior. I see that many of us here have high expectations for integrity in relationship. I am thinking that the AC wants those high standards too, but thinks he can acquire them by glomming onto us. When he finds out it does not work that way, and that HE has a lot of hard work to do, he may opt out by turning on us.
Heres my latest theory
EUM/AC, who knows he is EUM even if he has never heard the term…meets Ms Pretty Dang Emotionally Available. He wants this, maybe he feels he is missing something and she has it.
Thus, he starts HIS fantasy, that she will fill the void of emptiness that he often has, the thing that goes deeper than looks and all. He is heavily invested in his fantasy that YOU can give him all this, and gloms onto you to receive it. Of course early on he plays a bit of polite courtship cause he knows you do have to give to receive but…that is a lot of work for him and he can’t keep up the giving part for long .
Becasue he is glomming and not giving…you begin your fantasy that any day he’ll be coming around to the guy that you see in him… the guy who he kinda wants to be, even if he’s not really thinking about it. At the same time you start to get understandably frustrated and angry at this AC antics. When you start to call him on this, you cannot fulfill his fantasy anymore, and give him the vision of himself that he wants so bad.
It’s a bad dance, that at some level both know they ned to sit out. I spose with therapy maybe some couples could weather this, but if we were doing couples therapy we would not be here alone reading and writing and figuring this out on our own.
So to answer your ?? something dark side…sure, he could be diff with other women, there could easly be a totally different dynamic. But that did not mean they had a satisfying relationship… thats why they are not together anymore.
Bottom line really is that people are complicated and two together even more so. We are all different, but after EUM my boundaries now include the need for an emotionally intelligent partner with a strong work ethic and who is committed to developing stellar communication.I expect nothing less than that in my behavior also.
BTW, The sarcastic part of me presenttly says…dream on bout finding THAT man ;-))
@DazedandConfused,
Thanks for your reply, dear. Actually my point was that the first relationship was about a year long, the second was a couple of months (and this one he admitted to treating poorly), and the last one was me…we broke up and got back together several times so on average the relationship itself lasted for roughly 1 yr and a couple of months. The first girl, the way he talked about her was just glamorous.. Living within houses of one another…going to school together…families were extremely close…by the end of that year they were joining the same workplace but eventually something broke them up and they went their separate ways. It really breaks my heart. The second one he talked about glamorously too except he admitted that there was tension. Hell, when things happened between him and me that was extremely important, he’d actually say things like “I wonder if that’s happened with anyone else in my past without me knowing…” Pointing attention to his exes, and taking value away from me. It was brutal.
So this is why I wonder if he was full of shit or not. I mean read what I wrote..it sounds perfect, doesn’t it?
@Something – after a year of NC, perhaps the kindest thing you can do is assume he is full of crap. After all, it really doesn’t matter – because even if you could have a no-strings no pain talk with him (which you can’t, obviously, the payment is way more pain) and he told you whatever he would tell you, you’d still wonder if he was telling you the truth or not. It’s the nature of the beast – maybe just assuming he was completely full of shit is the best way, I don’t know, it works for me most of the time.
Those break-up and return times … ouch. I hope someday very soon you can change your name to somethingsomethinglightinside 🙂
@ meant – well, not really. How ironic – meeting someone who clearly thinks only of themselves is making me burn and yearn for me asshole-as-was. However, I think there are some positives in this. Firstly, as NML has said, when I analyse things I am longing for the potential I was betting on – cos actually there was a moment or two during that date which brought back some sharp memories of sitting somewhere 4000 miles from home and thinking “maybe this guy really IS a jerk” (at least I have my answer to this.
So it’s not him. It’s not about him – it’s about a collection of my fears – money, stability, safety, having someone to hold me and feeling like I never will again – well, that’s a self fulfilling prophesy if I ever I heard one, so I have decided today to make a list of objectives and try to fulfil them each day.
@aphrogirl – I think you have something here, it’s like when something you say jarrs with their perception of you on a pedestal then you have personally insulted them. Like pointing out that Sarah Palin is a moose murdering lunatic rather than agreeing with “she’s HAWT”. Please, give me strength! He was properly angry with me for that lack of valediction of his worldview.
@being happy – great! As to the chase – believe me, if you let him think he had you back again it would all halt again and the cold winds of Siberia would be blowing once he thought you were all invested in him again. NC FTW!!
@ BeingHappy,
“Hey, I broke the NCR about 3 weeks ago now. Really wish i hadn’t as it took a toll on my current relationship.”
Is that . . . cheating? You have a relationship, so why are you messing around with other guys, even (or especially) an ex? If you are not ready to devote yourself to a new shared life (that another guy still owns a piece of your heart or attention), why are you out there with someone new? If this new guy is just there to fill in the empty places, how can you be sure that you have correctly evaluated his character and worth, before you consider yourself in a relationship? If you haven’t finished dealing with the past, there is a risk that you haven’t finished learning all you need to pick an emotionally healthy partner of character and honor.
NC is supposed to establish a safe time, to heal wounds old and new, and to deal with the doubts and fears that brought you together with the bozo(s) from the past. This time is about you, about your self esteem and respect. If you are still thinking of this time as being “NC” then I think you should also think of yourself as emotionally “walking wounded” – and handicapped, relationship-wise.
I guess calling what happened cheating is judgmental and harsh. But I think of the impact on you, on your new guy, and this new relationship, there is at least as much chance of someone, or several someones, getting hurt as a married person taking sex adventures on the side. And I don’t like to see good people get hurt from simple mistakes.
Blessed be.
Something… I am going to go with he’s full of it. But not that he is being dishonest… it’s just how you remember these things after a period of time. My ex from two years ago… great guy. Loved him to death, a total sweatheart and I wish all good things for him. He cheated on me, twice 🙂 I don’t often say that part now… because it’s water under the bridge.
My recent Ex… he had a way of saying how all his exes were really lovely women and it was too bad they were “too naive,” “verbally abused me”… It was like this one small character trait, but oh no he would never say anything mean. To me, normal people either don’t bring it up or can say in a healthy manner that they were angry about such and such. People are not perfect. If he relationship with that girl for a year was sooooo fantastic “where the hell is she now???”.
Oh ya my ex told me the family loved him… she just became very depressed and it saddened him because he could do nothing to help her. Ya likely because you were the cause of her depression.
People remember these things a certain way, it’s a self protection thing for all people. Where would most of us be if a few years later we remembered the pain of a break up like it happened yesterday?
So take what he says with a grain of salt… the key thing is that girl is gone and he is still looking.
NML!!!!
This is the very BEST article you have written so far!!!
So many have fit the situation I let myself get into … but this one could not be plainer or more clear what we have ALL have been doing.
thank you so very much. I am so glad you are here!
I to for a long time rationalized the bad behavior of a man I was invoved with for several years. Until the day came when he pulled a stunt that even I didin’t think he would stoop down to doing.
I had asked him to do me a favor and again not thinking that he would do this I have him the necessary money to do this.
That was 4 months ago. Did I try to contact him? Sure I did anybody in their right mind would do the same.
In any event these past 4 months haven’t been all that hard. The beggining was but enough time has gone by and his staying gone just helps me to keep moving foward a lot easier.
The sad part about this and a host of similar other situationx is that these fools almost always come back. I for one never want to see this man again. He did a very horrible thing by taking money from me and then disappearing. IMO that is considered stealing a behavior that under no kind of circumstances as being acceptable.
He’ll be back one day when he thinks I am over what he did. I will never ge over this and when the day comes for him to rear his ugly head again boy have a good a trick for him.
I love this site and everyone’s input! It’s helped me so much to understand what I basically knew all along and didn’t want to believe – that when a man says he believes he’s a borderline sociopath; THAT’S the time to leave! He was a sweetheart for the 1st 6 months, then a back operation & subsequent pain & heavy-duty narcotics created even more of an EUM! I paid his rent & most of his bills for 17 months until Workman’s Comp. finally kicked in, and as soon as he got his money and paid me back, I was emotionally kicked to the curb. He strategized how to get back his ex from 25 years ago, and now the two of them are probably playing each other like fish on a line. She knows all about me, and if she has 1/2 a brain she’ll be wondering “if he can do that to someone like HER, what’s he going to do someday to ME?” But I’m getting to the point where I don’t care. I know karma will get him some day, and he’ll end up like his cheating father – not as handsome as before, and living alone, when he could’ve had a loyal, loving wife or girlfriend with him, if only he had a heart. Of course he says he’s a decent guy, but what decent guy, after what he did to me, tells me the last time I saw him, that down the road there will be others after this ex he had to get back so badly. Wonder if he told her that. He was great in bed, but good sex does not a relationship make. And now he can’t even give that crumb, since a 2nd operation really screwed him up. But this site is helping me to feel what he even told me – that I need to find someone who will love and adore me for the great woman I am, and now I’m better learning how to make that happen. I freaking deserve it!
I have been in a spell of a married man who is cheating with other woman whilst in the relationship with me , never thought in my wildest dream that I would do something so stupid but I am doing and its been a year and a half now and have decided to take a stand and walk away but I have so much fear its not funny anymore because I got to realise that I have never been alone for the past 5 years , I had always had a booty call around or someone to sleep with or what I would call a relationship realising that is was not a relationship. I got to make him my mentor/friend/soulmate/boyfriend and everything you can think of I even go around telling people I have a boyfriend and not telling them that its a married man. How do I walk away and know that I will feel so much pain so unbearable so alone for the first in a lot of years, I do not think that I can handle being alone and that scares the hell our of me!!
about to walk away
read read read this site. Read to hear the stories of all the women here, like you who want something more than what they have. Read NML’s book. Hopefully you will come to the conclusion that what you have with this man is nothing but heartache and wanting and wishing. Lots of us have had the same fear and have learned that it is to be better, way better, to be alone than in an unsatisfying relationship. There is also plenty to learn about why you might chose such a fantasy life and the damage that choice does to one’s self esteem.
You defined it well, you are under a spell.It can take weeks or months of being away from the EUM to break that spell but once you get through the first few weeks of No Contact you will hopefully know that it is best for you. And that will give you the motivation to continue staying away.
I think most of us who post here would never go back to an EUM. We read to keep us on the sane path, and to understand how we can become entranced. We keep reading and posting to retrain ourselves, and our incredible abilities to indulge in rich fantasies. For me the goal now is to learn to spot unhealthy relationships from the beginning when it is easy to get out. I have learned so much from the EUM experience and the help of this site.
Good luck.
@about to walk away.
I love your name because it sounds like you are at the point of ‘having enough of it†I can relate to your story because, although my MM and I were supposed to be “exclusive†(he told me his wife had refused sex with him for several years), I did see him flirting with other women and I never really trusted him not to sleep with others.
I know how difficult it is to break up with a MM. I ended my “relationship†a little over 3 weeks ago, and it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. I was with him for 14 months, and what made me “finally snap†was realizing that I would never be a priority for him, that he mostly wanted me to fulfill his own physical needs, and that he could not express his feelings for me. He could not tell me ways that he valued me as a person, just physical attributes. I also knew he would never leave his wife and I was sick of waiting for him to call, email, chat online, or basically communicate with me so I could feel “connectedâ€. I was stressed and miserable waiting all the time. I also felt guilty for the possible consequences for innocent people if our affair was discovered. Reading many posts on this site was also helpful. I kind of did a version of the “get out plan†instead of going NC cold turkey, and I did actually break up with him over the phone. You can always come to this site for support. The fastest way to get feedback is usually commenting on the most recent post (which is “compatibility and type part 3†– or something similar – right now). I agree with others on here that being alone is better than accepting crumbs from a MM, especially one who has many partners!!!! Good luck with your decision.
I stumbled across this website in the early hours of the morning when I couldn’t sleep because of stomach upset (maybe a “gut feeling”). I am currently in a relationship (if you can actually call it that) with an EUM. I really thought it was my choice! After having a daliance with him 3 years ago and all but forgotten him, he contacted me at work one day.
Now, short version of the back story; recently escaped from an emotionally abusive man that I was engaged to, jumped staight into the next thing that came along (lasted 5 weeks), thought I was so clever at recognising the red flags, which is why it only lasted 5 weeks. But lo and behold, after denying initial contact with EUM, contacted him knowing full well how little he could offer me.
I believed I could have a “friends with benefits” type of thing with him and thought I was mature enough to handle something like this! What a fool am I! I am in my forties, intelligent, attractive, fun, adventurous but I have had two marriages and one engagement as well as other relationships in between.
It is becoming clear that although my self esteem and respect have grown significantly in the past 10 years, I still have a way to go. Especially in regards to relationships!
Thank you for my moment of clarity
I’m glad you had a moment of clarity Momentofclarity 🙂 Ha ha. Best of luck in your healing.
I just wanted to comment on one thing:
“I believed I could have a “friends with benefits†type of thing with him and thought I was mature enough to handle something like this! What a fool am I!”
Why do people think that a “friends with benefits” type thing is so “mature?” I think of it as something that 20-somethings are likely to do. And the 40-year olds that I know, that are capable of it and engaging in it, are emotionally stunted people that, to use a common NML phrase, “don’t know their arse from their elbow.” I’ve had the “pleasure” of meeting some recently – not to mention my xeum/AC – and honestly, they are people for whom I have absolutely no admiration. They are certainly not mature, or nearly as cool as they think they are.
Don’t beat yourself up for not being able, in your forties especially, to feel good with a “friends with benefits” situation. I think our values as a culture are incredibly skewed. And would not want to be the type of person who could do this!
Luv.
I have recently stumbled upon this site and I have learned though this post that I have my own AC. To sum it up, I met him 7 years ago. We spent the first 3 years of our relationship while he was a MM. Then the next year he spent in jail, his wife then served him divorce papers. He then came to me. Then the last 3 years were spent while he was “legally separated”… he would never get divorced.
I was always there for him, grant it, I made some of the relationship difficult, but what woman wouldn’t in this situation. About 5 months ago, we finally went different ways. The relationship wasn’t going anywhere. He immediately met someone else and jumped into a relationshp with her. I was fine with that. But then, he sends me a text about 3 weeks ago asking to “date me unguarded”. Ididot me, I gave in. I asked him first if he was still seeing this other woman (remember – he isn’t divorced yet) and he said “yes, but I will end it”. He even sent a text to my older brother telling him he wanted to get back in my life. That was so out of character for him… it was… caring. Well, 3 weeks later (present day) and he is still seeing the other girl. I drove past his house twice, she was over. He is letting her do things for him over me. I have opened myself back up to him only to discover that he wasn’t as serious about me back in his life as he declared. Oh, and to make matters worse – I had to hear how angry he was at himself for texting my brother… he felt he didn’t need anyones permission to date me and how dumb was he…
That was the AC I knew. And for a brief second, I was almost fooled. Once I heard the anger and his bitterness, I was slapped back to my AC’s ways. I know what I deserve, and I know this isn’t it. More then anything, I am upset at myself for letting him back in. I have cut contact with him and am not picking up the pieces again. I was 19 when I started my relationship with this man and I am now 26. I have spent the most vital years with him…
This site is really teaching me that it wasn’t me – it was him. He was the EUM. I did everything I could, more then most women would do. He is going to have a miserable life ahead of me… but not me, I’m looking ahead. Not back.
Burned 2X,
Keep reading the posts, and NML’s ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. There is even more hope here – you can learn how to notice and attract a healthy man for a real relationship, while at the same time learn to dump the bozos and perpetual daters before they get to first base.
It isn’t easy, and involves improving your self esteem and setting appropriate boundaries.
Luck!
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..ps: Empowering girls, and self confidence =-.
Hi,
I am still not sure if I had/have an ass clown. I had a non-ass clown long-term relationship years ago, but it broke up because of geography. I started dating my “is he an ass-clown” three months ago. The first month was fantastic — he was attentive and good to me. Then he had to go away for the summer and we kept in amazing touch via the phone and text. Admittedly the text was heavier than the phone. But I felt like we were continuing to get close and we talked about how happy/healthy we felt things were going.
Things changed the instant he got home. He’s a famous person and very busy with his schedule and demands on his time. He’s also an introvert. He came home and rather than see me, he continued to behave as though he was still away — calling and texting me rather than SEEING me. It was getting so confusing for me. I asked him if he wanted “out” of “us” and he said “no, of course not.” He told me that his schedule is too busy right now and asked if we could leave things for a month. I really like him and I sort-of agreed. But then a few days went by and I felt awful he wasn’t making an effort, no matter how busy his schedule (he was still texting).
He’s a really good man. He’s intelligent, charming, attentive when he has time…I’m on day four of no contact (I took him off my phone because I was so confused by his about-face) and I’m missing him terribly.
Any thoughts or advice?
Thanks.
Hi Silvergirl – Please post your question in the forum here, Thanks Natalie
I truly am ashamed of the junk I allowed to happen in my relationship. Anything that ever happened was because of something “I did” – like that is even possible. I call him the Spinner… I also can not believe he thought I was stupid enough to believe his crap.
Trish,
The issue I see is respect. Defending yourself is important, it shows good self knowledge and acceptance of your responsibility for yourself and others.
Avoiding responsibility is a fear reaction, and is profoundly disrespectful. My only question is – instead of focusing on the line he spun out showing you to blame, why didn’t you react, in anger, at the disrespect he showed when he failed to take responsibility for his actions, or when he did anything to make you feel bad? Usually the words are much less important than the actions. The bozo you describe acted disrespectfully and irresponsibly. So, why would a reasonable person allow a lump of character flaws like that to darken their doorway? I can’t think that anyone could confuse a bozo like yours with someone that would improve their shared life.
This post has captured a lot of my relationship with Mr. Unavailable. To recap, I met him, thought he was decent and then after about 2 months his behavior changed. He would stand me up, disappear & give me the silent treatment. He accused me of being obsessive and controlling when I tried to extract committment from him or try to ascertain the direction of the relationship.
On a few occassions I would end the realtionship, then he would come back, I would be grateful to have him back and the cycle would start all over again. Once we were apart for three months and he never made any real effort to see me or make the relationship work. He would sporadically send me text messages claiming his love and saying how much he missed me – never any real effort. I saw him and all those feelings and emotions came flooding back. I thought that he must still care about me because he spoke to me and seemed to want me back. But I would be cautious. We had a ‘talk’ that as usual, led no where except in his bed when we had sex. There he whispered that he was ‘so sorry’ and that he ‘missed me.’
And I accepted him back. He didn’t have to do anything more.
Fast forward four months later and of course, the issues are still there as they haven’t been resolved. In frustration and to save my sanity, I called it quits (to myself) and began making myself unavailable, not taking calls and really trying to get over the $hit for a relationship when…
I found out I was pregnant.
What should have been a joyous occasion for me was sad as I KNEW that he would be a lousy father and I couldn’t bear the thought of him in my life forever. I thought about terminating the pregnancy but that decision was made for me when I miscarried. It took all this for me to realise the following:
1. I was normalising his bad behaviour to the point that he would have to do something really MAJOR to get my attention.
2. I lost myself along the way.
3. I was an emotional wreck
4. I had no boundaries
5. That I was worth little to him. Worse, my behavior was screaming that I didn’t mind.
5. Just like him, I would say one thing & do another (i.e say I’m done with the relationship but keep going back to him)
Mr. Unavailable had a way of making me feel that it was all my fault that the relationship wasn’t progressing and I in turn would try harder. He never acknoweldged my feelings or tried to make the relationship work. And after an argument or if he had hurt my feelings, he would act as IF NOTHING HAD HAPPENED. And I started to doubt myself.
However, there was no doubt that I was pregant. I didn’t imagine that!There was no doubt that when I lost the baby he NEVER comforted me. I had to learn the hard way about EUM’s and I hope that my story can help someone else. These types of men
1. Do not have your best interest in heart
2. Will not change
3. Trying harder with these men in relationships won’t get you anywhere
4. The bad behaviour can and does escalate
5. Don’t expect any closure from them
6. Talking about your feelings, how they hurt you, saying you love them blah blah blah means nothing. They DON”T CARE.
I regret that I had to hurt myself like this to FINALLY get it through my head that he treated me badly and worse, how much I put up with.
Ok, So I clearly have an issue here..I seem to be incapable of saying “NO” I mean I say no but hardly ever directly. I always say things not so nice in a nice non-hurtful way. Well, this weekend I had an experience that really hurt me emotionally and amade me really disgusted and angry at myself. I wish not to give too many details, but I found myself on a date with a guy whom I have been talking to for about three weeks on the phone, this was our second time ever seeing eachother. I will just say the first night out of the two he came out to see mee(he lives an hour away) I realized that while he was “nice” he crossed boundaries I had told him I did nt want to cross, he greatly dissapointed me and I completely dissapointed myself..i felt disrespected, stupid, and…numb somehow. However, dispite all this I found myself re explaining the things I did not want and how the situation that made me uncomfortable could not happen again. Well either he played stupid or I was not very clear from the beggining, he did not apologize but rather almost acted as the victim that did not understand what I had said. But the worst thing of all is that despite my heart and guts telling me that I had absolutely no desire to go out with him on the second day, I still DID!! what the hell is wrong with me???!!! I spent a whole other day with him,which only confirmed my non desire to ever see him again. My point or concern is that I repeatedly find myslelf in situatons I highly dislike because of my inability to say NO..people including my stepdad keep telling me I need to be more of a “b…” well after today I really do want to be more like that which is I guess just more assertive… HELP! what the hell is wrong with me and can someone write about saying NO..thanx
Wow.
This one just kicked me in the guts. It’s amazing how dead-on all of this was! Changed my perspective *seriously*. THANKS SO MUCH.
~RuDee